SoberNotMature - Episode 193 (Beth McDonough - Standby)

00:00:01.62
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome once again to another episode of Sober, Not Mature. And yes, we have, i don't know, I got to say, what do you think, Mike? Is she kind of a big deal?

00:00:13.28
Mike
I've tied. I would ever, man. I actually made it to the podcast where we had a guest. So, you know, that's, that's, that's a plus.

00:00:21.02
Bill
You know, I just thought about that. Yeah, Mike missed a couple of podcasts. Only two that he's missed, but two when we had guests on.

00:00:25.79
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:00:26.73
Bill
So, um yeah, he's ah he's available this time for, you know, obviously for a guest. And I don't know. I mean, based on on your background, Beth, I mean, you got a lot that that you've that you've gone through in your life, a lot that you got going on.

00:00:37.40
Bill
ah But real quick, ah introduce yourself. Just a very brief introduction, and then we'll we'll get rolling, okay?

00:00:42.49
Beth McDonough
Okay. Thank you. And Mike, thank you for showing up. I appreciate it.

00:00:46.25
Mike
No problem.

00:00:46.85
Bill
Ha, ha, ha, ha,

00:00:49.26
Beth McDonough
Yeah. So I ah was a newscaster for 30 years and I've lived and worked all over the U.S., you know, New York, Philadelphia, Houston, Minneapolis, um Oklahoma City.

00:01:02.26
Beth McDonough
I grew up in l L.A. and I always wanted to be a reporter because I like to be um where the action and the chaos is kind of at the intersection of all of that.

00:01:15.44
Bill
Oh.

00:01:15.73
Beth McDonough
I'm a little bit of an adrenaline junkie. Don't judge me.

00:01:17.95
Bill
oh

00:01:19.07
Beth McDonough
And ah so I did try anchoring for a little bit, but I was so bored in the new studio because I'm like, God, I want to be out there where everybody else is having all the fun out in the streets and chasing down the stories and um interviewing people, because that's a ah big thing about, you know, TV news is the connection and interviewing the people.

00:01:38.58
Bill
right

00:01:39.35
Beth McDonough
Yeah, and I love it. And during the course of my career, um as I started to climb markets, I started in Joplin, Missouri, as a little bitty cub reporter.

00:01:50.87
Beth McDonough
And ah and i remember at that time, every Thursday, all of my colleagues from the TV stations in town We would get together and go to a local bar because they had 25 cent beers.

00:02:05.28
Beth McDonough
Yep. And, you know, when you're starting out, I think I made $14,000 that year. ah Yeah, I know. And when I got a pay raise $14,500, everyone made me buy them around because I'm the only one who they thought could afford it.

00:02:19.20
Mike
Sure.

00:02:20.30
Bill
Hey, just just real quick before you go any further.

00:02:20.59
Beth McDonough
ah

00:02:22.60
Bill
What's your name, by the way? Because I don't think we got your name yet.

00:02:24.13
Mike
We did not put that out there yet.

00:02:26.83
Beth McDonough
Oh my God. That's hilarious. Okay. Beth McDonough.

00:02:30.92
Bill
Well, cool.

00:02:31.08
Mike
Well, hello, Beth.

00:02:31.01
Beth McDonough
I promise it's me.

00:02:31.24
Bill
So yeah, hello. Hello, Beth. And very nice to meet you. And obviously nice to for you to meet everyone else. So, um and yeah, let's, Mike, obviously let her know, because we we want to get into your your story.

00:02:41.74
Mike
Hehehehe.

00:02:42.78
Bill
um But Mike, let her know how how we do things here.

00:02:43.01
Mike
Mmhmm.

00:02:44.98
Bill
And we we've got we got plenty of time to talk, Beth. I just want to kind of give you an idea how we how we do things. But we want to hear your story. We want to hear about your book, obviously. We want to hear about, you know, obviously the career that you had.

00:02:56.89
Bill
But first of all, Mike, how do we go about telling stories about being an alcoholic?

00:02:59.16
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:03:00.83
Bill
Like...

00:03:01.55
Mike
Right. Well, Beth, listeners know, know we are ah know how to get fucked up we know how to fuck up our lives, and we know how to fuck up the lives of everyone around us.

00:03:12.99
Mike
That's the easy part.

00:03:13.01
Beth McDonough
Yep.

00:03:13.75
Mike
We all know that already. what we're interested in is the solution. So clearly, we want some background. we want a little qualifying, but we hate

00:03:25.21
Beth McDonough
Okay. I've been duly warned.

00:03:28.47
Bill
It's, you know what, it's it's not even, it's it's a warning of sorts, but the thing that we don't want to do, like like Mike just said, is just, we don't want to sit here for an hour and a half and talk about all the all the ways that things messed up, because our key here is that, yeah, i mean, you've been sober for a bit, so have we, and I mean, like, qualify little bit.

00:03:39.27
Mike
The war stories.

00:03:44.31
Bill
tell Tell some of your stories. It's got to be intertwined in there, but we want to get to what you're doing now and all the good and what your book and all those sort of things. What you're doing, but the yeah, exactly, exactly.

00:03:51.51
Mike
How you got out of it?

00:03:54.13
Beth McDonough
yeah Am I out of it?

00:03:57.43
Mike
I don't know.

00:03:58.00
Bill
Well, yeah, we're we're about we're about to find out.

00:03:58.38
Mike
Yes.

00:03:58.47
Beth McDonough
No, I am. Yes.

00:04:01.54
Bill
So so anyhow, I didn't mean to interrupt you, but I thought it might be might be helpful to get your name out there first.

00:04:02.15
Mike
Yes.

00:04:06.20
Bill
But yeah, go ahead.

00:04:07.92
Beth McDonough
Yeah. Thank you. So ah how I got out of it.

00:04:09.42
Mike
So he

00:04:11.04
Beth McDonough
um

00:04:12.71
Mike
Joplin, Missouri, how'd you get out of there?

00:04:12.57
Beth McDonough
the You know, ah right.

00:04:14.55
Mike
Right.

00:04:14.94
Bill
Yeah, you were in Joplin drinking 25-cent beers. yeah

00:04:17.92
Mike
right

00:04:17.84
Beth McDonough
I know. Right. And it's amazing. I was very popular at that time. ah Go figure.

00:04:23.75
Bill
Well, of course, when you're buying, right?

00:04:24.35
Beth McDonough
Right.

00:04:24.95
Bill
Yeah.

00:04:26.00
Beth McDonough
Well, and that kind of speaks to, you know, not just news people, but other careers as well. But I generally worked the 10 or 11 p.m. news and worked for that, you know, and after you cover news events all day long. And my area of specialty was murder, death, destruction, mayhem is what we called it.

00:04:45.94
Mike
Cool.

00:04:46.52
Beth McDonough
You know, so I always kind of liked, you know, the bigger the tragedy, the more interested I was.

00:04:52.20
Bill
Sure.

00:04:52.14
Beth McDonough
And because I like to interview survivors of situations and I love to find out from people how they made it through crises in their lives.

00:04:52.42
Bill
Right.

00:05:00.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:02.17
Beth McDonough
You know, and who knew that was a cautionary tale that lo and behold, I too one day would be doing that.

00:05:07.68
Mike
Great.

00:05:07.70
Bill
right

00:05:08.52
Beth McDonough
ah You know, but news people after the news, it's very common for everyone to go out and have some drinks, blow off some steam, you know, in the hope that you don't take it home to your families or

00:05:12.78
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:05:18.30
Beth McDonough
you know, absorb the trauma that you see and cover every day. And so I used to be a party girl. And, you know, it was fairly, fairly calm in the world of party girl. But ah around 2005, six, seven, a whole bunch of things happened in my life that I crossed over from being a party girl to certainly starting to go down the road of alcoholism.

00:05:42.39
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:05:42.39
Beth McDonough
You know, it just things that everybody has happened in their lives. I was going through a divorce. My mother died very unexpectedly. um My dad had a quadruple of bypass at right after my mother's funeral.

00:05:55.71
Beth McDonough
ah yeah And then I found out I was working for NBC News at the time in Philadelphia. And um I found out in the midst of all of this that Comcast was buying NBC.

00:06:05.30
Mike
Mm.

00:06:05.17
Beth McDonough
So my job would be phased out.

00:06:07.94
Mike
Mm.

00:06:08.20
Bill
Hmm. Right.

00:06:08.31
Beth McDonough
um Because they were, yeah and you know, anytime new companies take over other ones, right? They get rid of the people and bring in their own.

00:06:13.92
Mike
Right.

00:06:14.10
Bill
right

00:06:14.66
Beth McDonough
Yeah. And I'm like, okay, well, this is a reset in life, isn't it? But at the time, I didn't allow ah I didn't have the time to give myself to mourn and grieve and do all of that. And these aren't excuses. You know, everybody faces these kind of things in their lives every day.

00:06:29.19
Beth McDonough
But that kind of started the ball rolling where when after I got done taking care of all of my family's issues in the funerals and all of that, you know, then I went back up to Minnesota to start my job.

00:06:36.97
Bill
Thank you.

00:06:42.57
Beth McDonough
as the crime reporter and the justice reporter at the Fox station in Minneapolis.

00:06:48.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:06:48.21
Beth McDonough
And my partying definitely got out of hand. Instead of just weekends, it became more often and more often. And I very quickly got not just one, but two DUIs in the span of two years.

00:06:59.87
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:00.98
Beth McDonough
And, you know, the first one, consequences didn't quite hurt enough. Um, and I, you know, i got a little bit of trouble and my boss, I always want to point this out ah because my boss at the time offered me help, you know, sit, you got a problem.

00:07:14.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:07:16.29
Beth McDonough
We'll send you to treatment. You know, this is, this is your shot.

00:07:17.71
Mike
Right.

00:07:19.22
Beth McDonough
We want to keep you. We like you, blah, blah, blah. And alcoholic stinking thinking, right.

00:07:25.82
Mike
Right.

00:07:25.85
Beth McDonough
And shame and stigma kind of kept me in the corner of,

00:07:26.34
Mike
Mm

00:07:28.46
Beth McDonough
No one wants to grow up and be an alcoholic and certainly be labeled that.

00:07:32.12
Mike
hmm.

00:07:32.10
Beth McDonough
And Lord knows I didn't want to admit I was one because, you know, I think at that time I wasn't even sure I was yet.

00:07:34.49
Mike
Right.

00:07:34.72
Bill
and right

00:07:39.00
Beth McDonough
And so that's part of the problem. um ah

00:07:41.70
Mike
hmm.

00:07:42.27
Beth McDonough
But fast forward a year later, you know, and I told him, no, it's a one off.

00:07:46.72
Mike
Right.

00:07:46.74
Beth McDonough
I'll get control of this.

00:07:47.69
Mike
I don't have a problem. Right.

00:07:49.41
Beth McDonough
oh, I've got this. Listen, you know, I've i've covered 9-11. I can handle crises, right?

00:07:54.57
Mike
and see

00:07:54.84
Beth McDonough
I got this. and um But what we all learned along the way is that in the world of relationships, alcohol is a taker, not a giver.

00:08:02.60
Bill
Right.

00:08:02.60
Mike
Right.

00:08:03.61
Beth McDonough
Yeah. And it doesn't negotiate. So I white knuckled it for a bit and um tried to do my best. I really did. And, you know, alcohol being what it is, it's a progressive disease. And so, you know, slowly but surely I kind of I danced with the devil and got burned.

00:08:22.15
Beth McDonough
And so it was a year later then 2008. And actually it was 16 years ago tomorrow that I got my second DUI.

00:08:30.51
Mike
Mmm.

00:08:31.01
Beth McDonough
It was Halloween night.

00:08:32.25
Mike
Yep.

00:08:33.71
Beth McDonough
You know, you can imagine I went out, it was Halloween with colleagues and tide went on and like an idiot got my car and drove home when I knew I was drunk.

00:08:37.45
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:43.06
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:08:44.12
Beth McDonough
I don't know why didn't call a cab or an Uber, but you know,

00:08:44.40
Mike
Right.

00:08:48.86
Beth McDonough
I had someone on the highway at 80 miles an hour going home.

00:08:51.79
Bill
Oh boy.

00:08:51.90
Mike
Oof.

00:08:53.03
Beth McDonough
He, the driver wasn't injured, but his car was definitely damaged. And when I arrived to my home and I was a blackout drinker, so I remember parts of this and the rest of it, I've had to piece together from police reports, my attorney, ah but the police were on my doorstep ready to arrest me when I got there.

00:09:03.68
Mike
Right. Hmm.

00:09:07.18
Mike
right

00:09:11.47
Beth McDonough
um And that's kind of the last part that I remember of that until I woke up in jail with 36 hours later, mind you, um with in the drunk tank with other women who were watching the TV monitor in the jail cell, you know, because when you go to jail, what do you talk about? What had to get here? What you do? Did you do it?

00:09:30.91
Beth McDonough
And then turn on Jerry Springer, um you know, but this was a ah weekend morning.

00:09:31.24
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm. Nice.

00:09:35.81
Beth McDonough
So Jerry wasn't available. So the news was. And when I came to ah the anchors who are my friends I partied with many times, you know, were talking about me and my big old ugly mugshot was up on that big monitor.

00:09:51.66
Bill
And you're laying in jail in a cell full of women and you're up on the TV. Yep.

00:09:57.69
Beth McDonough
Oh, yeah. And they're all talking about me and they're like, man, she screwed, you know. oo

00:10:01.79
Mike
Right. Right.

00:10:02.39
Beth McDonough
And then I remember them saying 0.24, which at that time in Minnesota was three times the legal limit to drive, you know, because ah I'm not a quitter.

00:10:08.53
Bill
sure ye

00:10:09.60
Mike
Right.

00:10:11.55
Beth McDonough
If I'm going to go, I'm going to go all in.

00:10:13.50
Mike
right

00:10:14.32
Beth McDonough
And, you know, and the women were like, what a lightweight, yeah right?

00:10:17.63
Mike
here here here

00:10:20.75
Beth McDonough
Maybe I was, you know, right there. I wasn't feeling like a lightweight. I was feeling like my life was over. um and So that's kind of, you know, laying the groundwork for my firing, because then when I did get out of jail and my attorney wouldn't bail me out for five days because I didn't learn my lesson the first time.

00:10:37.06
Bill
Oh wow. Okay.

00:10:39.21
Mike
Right.

00:10:39.19
Beth McDonough
Um, and so he let me, you know, stew in that for a few days. And, uh, and I share this story just because there's some levity in it too. Um, when I was then getting released from jail, um, I, you know, called my attorney, are you here to pick me up?

00:10:54.91
Beth McDonough
And he's like, yeah, I'm 10 blocks away. Meet me over here. And it's, you know, in Minnesota, winter snows on the ground, it's cold.

00:11:01.62
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:01.77
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, can can you come closer?

00:11:02.38
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:11:04.94
Beth McDonough
And he says, no, I can't. I'm going to make you do the walk of shame. and ah hundreds of times in my career, if I got in the perp walk, the walk of shame, you know, and so all the newsies are there inside editions there, all the national gossip magazines are there.

00:11:14.26
Bill
right

00:11:14.26
Mike
Right.

00:11:20.38
Beth McDonough
And, uh, and so when I came out and saw, and I asked the deputy who was leading me out of the jail, you know, any chance you're going to let me go out the back door? And she goes, fuck no.

00:11:30.06
Mike
Right.

00:11:30.43
Bill
yeah

00:11:31.46
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, ow. Okay. And, uh, and she goes, you don't remember me, do you?

00:11:33.64
Bill
yeah

00:11:36.05
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, no, should i you know, and I know a lot of the deputies and cops I've done stories with them.

00:11:39.12
Mike
right

00:11:42.21
Mike
right

00:11:42.32
Beth McDonough
And she goes, I walked you out last year.

00:11:45.26
Mike
Mmm.

00:11:45.52
Bill
Oh, haha.

00:11:45.66
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, Ooh, this is just, okay. Okay. I hear you. All right. Let's go out. Let's do the walk of shame. Let's go. And, um, and so anyway, by the time I got home that my boss had called and, you know, he said, come to the TV station. You've got some paperwork to fill out.

00:11:59.96
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:12:00.75
Beth McDonough
And, uh, and I'm like, well, let me just further humiliate myself. I said, you know, the state took my license now and they also seized my car um because if you get it more than one DUI in Minnesota in 10 years, they can do all of that.

00:12:16.00
Mike
Right.

00:12:15.95
Beth McDonough
So I said, I can't actually get to the TV station. You know, he was just further pissed off at me for that.

00:12:21.53
Mike
Right.

00:12:21.74
Beth McDonough
And he's like, all right, we'll send you a taxi, come to the station, sign the paperwork. So when I got to the station and nobody would look me in the eye, you know,

00:12:32.44
Bill
Right.

00:12:32.38
Beth McDonough
And not that I wanted to make eye contact anyway. It wasn't feeling all that great.

00:12:34.87
Mike
Right.

00:12:36.48
Beth McDonough
but So I go into the office and I don't know if either you guys are a father, but it's kind of like disappointing your dad, you know, when you really like someone and like who you work for and have a lot of respect for.

00:12:44.05
Bill
Oh, yeah.

00:12:44.16
Mike
right

00:12:49.38
Beth McDonough
And all of that was there. And, you know, smoke was coming out of his ears when I got there.

00:12:55.81
Mike
see

00:12:56.81
Beth McDonough
um You know, and he said, You know, I got a pretty good tongue lashing, frankly. And and he said, we offered you help last year.

00:13:05.32
Mike
Right.

00:13:06.03
Beth McDonough
i'm like, yep yeah, you know, believe me. I remember. And but I wasn't ready to take it then. And, you know, he said, you helped to put us on the map here. You had a job for life.

00:13:17.27
Beth McDonough
i mean, how nice is that to know you're going to get a paycheck every two weeks for the rest of your working life?

00:13:21.81
Mike
yeah

00:13:22.03
Bill
right

00:13:22.08
Beth McDonough
ah But he said, oh, that's gone. You know, you can't be a crime reporter for us when you've committed a crime anymore. We gave you a pass last year, um but that's not going to happen. You are fired as of today. You're no longer abused to us.

00:13:35.69
Beth McDonough
and And he said, we kept the taxi here. You can take it home or you can take it to treatment. That's your call.

00:13:41.42
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:13:41.63
Beth McDonough
And, you know, and goodbye. And I'm like, my life is over as I know it. ah So that's kind of the back story of it all.

00:13:48.04
Bill
so ru

00:13:49.58
Beth McDonough
2007.

00:13:50.03
Bill
So real quick question. So after the the first one, what year was the the first one? 2000? Okay.

00:13:55.32
Beth McDonough
two thousand and seven

00:13:56.93
Bill
okay So with the first one, and I know that you that you denied the help that the company had offered to you, um obviously to go to rehab or do anything like that. Did you have to jump through any hoops from the state level, um like go through classes or any so any sort of learning thing, anything like that? Did they did they have you go through anything at all?

00:14:16.20
Beth McDonough
No.

00:14:17.43
Bill
Really?

00:14:18.33
Beth McDonough
Yeah, no. Because I had a pretty clean record too.

00:14:20.46
Bill
That kind of, right?

00:14:23.24
Beth McDonough
um And no, I didn't have to really do anything. i mean, there was a, you know, just minor consequences.

00:14:30.02
Bill
Right?

00:14:30.07
Beth McDonough
um But I, you know, in hindsight, that that probably wasn't the best approach because it just didn't hurt enough.

00:14:37.60
Bill
Right?

00:14:38.53
Beth McDonough
You know, so no, I didn't have to go through um any of that. Just minor stuff, you know, pay, honestly, pay a ticket.

00:14:44.66
Mike
if

00:14:45.83
Beth McDonough
you know, a few other things, but nothing major and certainly nothing that hurt enough to make me want to stop at that time.

00:14:54.18
Bill
Well, and the only reason i was asking, i I only got caught once. And Mike and I talk about this all the time. He just, well, you know, you just never got caught, right, Mike?

00:14:58.90
Mike
see I just never got caught. Right.

00:15:02.94
Bill
and i you know

00:15:02.85
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

00:15:04.20
Bill
And I only got caught once. so That was in 94. That was in Wisconsin. um And I had, I lost my license for seven months. Same thing, paid a fine. Didn't get an attorney um because it was just, it was basic stuff. It was going to happen as it happened.

00:15:17.68
Bill
But I did. I had to go through this, like this drunk class and stuff like that, counseling and this group stuff and whatever, um You know, but that's why I was just kind of curious. i I wasn't forced to go to AA meetings or anything like that.

00:15:28.92
Bill
i mean, we hear that a lot in meetings that people were forced. I think these days, ah worst case scenario, it's what people, what do you think, Mike? they Most places like Ohio, Cleveland, they'll they'll shovel up meetings even on the first time these days, right?

00:15:38.42
Mike
Yeah.

00:15:41.50
Mike
Yeah. Yeah. They'll make you go for whatever, six months or something. Yeah.

00:15:45.72
Bill
Right. Which, um and I was just kind of curious that, that surprises me that that, um I mean, relatively recent, like I said, I mean, mine was in 94 and I had to go through that. So um again, that was just curiosity because I know you said that um obviously you denied the actual, like going through a therapy or or rehab or whatever the case would be.

00:16:03.90
Bill
But um that's interesting to me that that the state didn't make you do anything else, but okay. So second time, different story though, right?

00:16:10.92
Mike
instance

00:16:10.93
Beth McDonough
Oh, you know, second time.

00:16:12.26
Bill
Yeah.

00:16:12.81
Beth McDonough
Yeah, no. Second time is certainly hard enough. It got my attention. And in that time, ah you know, Bill, I did have to face some state consequences.

00:16:25.10
Beth McDonough
And, um you know, between going to treatment, certainly going to for me, AA worked, you know, and I know some people um it's not for everyone, but it worked for me.

00:16:38.99
Mike
Sure. Right.

00:16:39.87
Beth McDonough
And, you know, and then I did outpatient therapy. In addition to that, I did aftercare. I had weekly therapy. um I'm very therapied.

00:16:52.58
Beth McDonough
And ah and then all of the fines and everything were doubled um because each time you get another DUI, whatever the DUI is, you know, so if it was like my third, then all the fines would have been tripled.

00:16:56.89
Bill
sure.

00:17:03.63
Bill
Okay.

00:17:03.90
Beth McDonough
um So, you know, and then the man that I hit sued me. um everything just you know blew up, definitely blew up.

00:17:11.33
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:12.47
Beth McDonough
And it certainly, my firing was so public and you know I was being relieved from the life and the career that I sacrificed everything for because I kind of fell in love with my career more than I did anything else, thus the divorce.

00:17:27.31
Bill
Right.

00:17:27.38
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:17:29.79
Beth McDonough
And dumb yeah, so definitely everything was magnified the second time for sure.

00:17:38.20
Bill
And with um with the AA part of it, just so you know, we're AA people. um That's where that's what we got where we got our start and and that sort of thing.

00:17:42.08
Beth McDonough
Okay, good.

00:17:42.60
Mike
Nope.

00:17:45.76
Bill
And I mean, the one thing that we've learned, and um ah we've been doing this podcast now for a little over three and a half years. And ah quite honestly, neith neither one of us knew anything about this whole gray area and sober curious and just alcohol free.

00:18:01.55
Bill
Neither one of us had any clue. um Both of us have 15 and a half years now.

00:18:03.21
Mike
nope

00:18:05.55
Bill
um And at the time that we got sober, we We got sober in Cleveland. Mike is still there. That's good, solid, hardcore, old school Alcoholics Anonymous. And um that's pretty much the only thing that's around there.

00:18:14.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:18:18.27
Bill
And I've heard of other things and we heard of other things, but um it's still our thing. But we've had people on here that do it different ways, which is fine. um But, you know, AAs is definitely are our deal. So we're we're all going to speak the same language as far as that goes.

00:18:33.35
Bill
Yeah.

00:18:33.72
Beth McDonough
Okay, good. You know, i'm have to tap dance around it sometimes, um you know, but i

00:18:38.13
Mike
Yeah.

00:18:39.32
Bill
Well, you know, that the thing of it is, and we've had people on here that that are like, you know what, AA rubbed me the wrong way or I wasn't treated right. And it was ah and the thing of it is we realize that maybe people didn't find the right meetings or the right people or whatever, but um we've had people of all different, we've had people that have basically used, um I mean, no structured program.

00:18:59.02
Bill
you know, like ah a mentor or things like that.

00:18:59.03
Mike
Yeah. No.

00:19:00.74
Bill
But even that individual, as he was explaining his whole mentoring program that he went through with this guy, it was like, ah it was almost a mirrored thing of the steps, you know?

00:19:09.28
Mike
yeah

00:19:09.55
Bill
um You know, but the the thing of it is that one way or the other, you, biggest thing, you don't have to tap dance around anything with us. That's the easiest way to put it.

00:19:16.32
Mike
no

00:19:17.00
Bill
Yeah.

00:19:18.01
Beth McDonough
Oh, good. Because, you know, in addition to the inpatient treatment that I did for 30 days at a well-known institution in Minnesota, um you know, when i it does, have you been there?

00:19:19.50
Bill
okay

00:19:28.67
Mike
Aha.

00:19:29.41
Bill
We know it.

00:19:29.69
Mike
Let's start with an H.

00:19:33.23
Bill
It ends with it ends with an No, no. But we've had, uh, we've had some, some dealings with, uh, we, we kind of had a, uh, I'll, so I'll call it a loose affiliation with them.

00:19:44.40
Bill
Um, we sold their recovery books for a little while. We still, we're still an authorized retailer, uh, for Hazelden.

00:19:48.75
Mike
We are.

00:19:49.94
Bill
Um, you know, so we, we can sell Hazelden recovery books. Didn't do really well on our website, but we still have that. At least I think we do.

00:19:56.54
Mike
yeah

00:19:56.74
Bill
Um,

00:19:57.04
Mike
They haven't told us we are.

00:19:58.51
Bill
Yeah.

00:19:58.73
Mike
We don't. So there you go.

00:20:00.36
Bill
Yeah. They haven't told us that we don't, but yeah, we, we tried to do a couple of things with us or with, with Hazleton, but I mean, we're, we're more than familiar with, with the, with the group. So yes.

00:20:09.45
Beth McDonough
Awesome. And in fact, I was just in Minnesota a couple of weeks ago on this book tour, ah you know, promoting my book.

00:20:17.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:17.07
Beth McDonough
And as part of it, um I went back to Hazleton to speak.

00:20:21.65
Mike
Nice.

00:20:21.67
Bill
Oh, nice.

00:20:22.26
Beth McDonough
Because as an alumni, you can.

00:20:24.27
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:20:24.25
Beth McDonough
and And I'd done it once before pretty early in my recovery. um who And, you know, but i don't think it was my best showing because I wasn't quite ready then.

00:20:34.51
Mike
Well, yeah. Right.

00:20:38.19
Beth McDonough
So this time, you know, 16 years has passed and I'm pretty grounded in my sobriety. And so, you know, this time I'm comfortable. I'm rocking it on the stage. And um I feel like I was anyway.

00:20:50.04
Beth McDonough
And I was like, hey, i just got to ask a question. Are the desserts still as good as they were back then?

00:20:55.21
Mike
he

00:20:55.64
Beth McDonough
And everybody's like, yes. because who doesn't want sugar when you're trying to get sober?

00:20:59.81
Mike
sense

00:21:00.89
Bill
Oh, God, yeah. Yeah.

00:21:02.16
Mike
He doesn't want it now.

00:21:02.22
Beth McDonough
Oh my God.

00:21:03.55
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:21:03.73
Beth McDonough
And the chef that they had there, I mean, you have never seen so many women eat like NFL players.

00:21:04.99
Bill
Yeah.

00:21:11.08
Beth McDonough
yeah And we're going back for seconds and all to the desserts, you know, like, okay, well eat the meal because you have to. And then we're like, all right, because the desserts were just so good there. And it was really nice afterwards. One of the program administrators came over and They had this little plate with a little bitty piece of cheesecake. And I'm like, but that's all?

00:21:31.54
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:21:31.85
Beth McDonough
It's so good, I want more. So thank you for saying that about AA, because between you know the treatment center, which totally saved my life, backed up by a very close second, AA.

00:21:41.26
Bill
Right.

00:21:46.06
Beth McDonough
Because when I was released then, and i went back home, and I wasn't going to be living in my home for long, because I tried to sell it. No one would buy my house, because... It was mine.

00:21:57.00
Beth McDonough
And because I was pretty damaged goods and, you know, ah nobody wanted to be associated with me or what was mine.

00:21:57.73
Bill
ah

00:22:03.82
Beth McDonough
um So I knew I was going to lose my home. But within one mile of where I lived was this church and they had an AA meeting every day.

00:22:14.06
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:22:14.39
Bill
Nice.

00:22:14.50
Beth McDonough
And this is kind of in the dead of a Minnesota winter where the snow was five feet high at that time. Well, I didn't have a car. you know, I had my two feet to get around. And so I started to go to this meeting every day.

00:22:28.89
Beth McDonough
And I must say i got lucky or blessed or it's divine intervention. I don't know. But it was the right meeting for me as soon as I walked in. And I was scared to go.

00:22:37.04
Bill
right

00:22:37.60
Beth McDonough
you know i knew everybody would know me. They'd know my story. And you know they think I'm just a hot mess like I was. And um

00:22:44.91
Mike
Yeah, but we don't care.

00:22:46.09
Bill
Right. Yeah.

00:22:46.38
Beth McDonough
what yeah right we're all hot messes at that point.

00:22:49.49
Bill
yeah

00:22:49.62
Mike
Right.

00:22:49.98
Beth McDonough
And I walked into the rooms and it was just, and there were hundreds of people at this meeting. You know, I didn't know if there'd be five or 20 hundreds in this meeting. It's a huge church and a huge meeting.

00:23:00.86
Beth McDonough
And, um, and so I was like, Oh my God, well, number one, I'm not alone. and And you want to know that, you know, so I'm in the right company to start to do the work here.

00:23:06.65
Mike
Right.

00:23:11.47
Beth McDonough
And the people that spoke, the men and the women were so spot on and, you know, lived what I was living.

00:23:18.61
Bill
Right.

00:23:20.45
Beth McDonough
And it it just resonated with me. It clicked immediately.

00:23:24.17
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:24.08
Beth McDonough
And I know people have had some trouble finding meetings that maybe they can click with.

00:23:24.26
Bill
right

00:23:28.81
Mike
Right.

00:23:28.73
Beth McDonough
But fortunately, the first one is the one that clicked with for me. And I was grateful because I could walk to it every day, um you know, because I wasn't going to be able to you know take a car and get anywhere.

00:23:39.60
Beth McDonough
And then, you know, over time when you listen to the people and I'm like, ooh, that's the woman I want to be my sponsor.

00:23:45.88
Bill
yeah

00:23:46.27
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:23:46.48
Beth McDonough
You know, she's a bunch smarter than I am and she's a tough cookie. She won't go easy on me. And so it just it was such a perfect fit. And I'm so grateful because every day those people, you know, they kept me going.

00:24:00.02
Beth McDonough
And I remember one gentleman, he was about a grandpa age.

00:24:00.47
Mike
Right.

00:24:04.19
Beth McDonough
I don't want to call someone a senior. They get offended. But he was grandpa age. And he came and sat down next to me and he goes, you look like shit. And I'm like, thanks. And he goes, how long you been sober? And I'm like, well, I just got out of treatment. So I think I'm on 31 days now. And, and he goes, okay, you know, how do you feel?

00:24:22.74
Beth McDonough
and I said, I feel terrible. And he goes, good. Never forget that feeling.

00:24:26.12
Mike
Right.

00:24:27.98
Beth McDonough
I mean, they just had the right advice left, right, up and down.

00:24:29.81
Mike
Yeah.

00:24:30.52
Beth McDonough
It spoke to me, you know, and I'm a realist. And I was like, can you be my sponsor? And he goes, absolutely not.

00:24:36.22
Mike
yes Right.

00:24:38.06
Beth McDonough
Find a woman out there, you know, and, um So they just gave me the greatest guidance through all of this with really the right heart.

00:24:48.88
Beth McDonough
You know, they were in it to really try and help you get better, too, in addition, because it helps them as well as we learn along the way.

00:24:53.84
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:24:54.34
Bill
Oh God, yeah.

00:24:55.29
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:24:56.05
Bill
Right.

00:24:55.91
Beth McDonough
So i was very fortunate. I got a really good meeting right off the start. And so I went every single day for you, every day for you. It was it was amazing. And I loved it. So I sing the praises.

00:25:08.42
Beth McDonough
And then after that, I also took on a sober roommate and who I'd met in the meetings. And um it was just the greatest thing because, you know, what a wonderful sobriety bubble at my home.

00:25:19.17
Beth McDonough
You know, and she she was out on her butt, you know, and didn't have a place to go. and um you know, I definitely needed the money because I was very quickly going to go broke.

00:25:31.22
Beth McDonough
But we became good fan friends in such a good support system for each other. And so the people that I've met along the way, and it's just, it's been wonderful. So, you know, I'm a big fan of that program.

00:25:45.50
Mike
cool

00:25:45.63
Bill
Yeah, we actually, ah we got we got roommates too, and they're they're talking to each other right now.

00:25:47.88
Mike
he Yes, yes, yes.

00:25:51.46
Bill
yeah

00:25:51.47
Mike
Bill and I lived together for a couple of years. Yeah.

00:25:55.44
Beth McDonough
No kidding.

00:25:56.68
Mike
Wow.

00:25:56.71
Bill
Yeah, that's that's actually how we met. So we were in, well, Mike had lived in Cleveland. um I've got family out there. The the short story is I was taken out to Cleveland. He was taken to the de Keating Center where we were.

00:26:07.87
Bill
We both ended up in a sober living facility out there, which, ah number one, I mean, Cleveland's got really good AA, really good people.

00:26:08.10
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:26:14.31
Bill
there these There's a lot of sober houses in the Cleveland area, but we just ended up in one of them.

00:26:17.82
Mike
yeah here

00:26:19.48
Bill
ah That's kind of one of the, I don't want to, you want to call it the main one? I mean, it's been around for probably the longest, right? Or not the longest or...

00:26:24.09
Mike
Yeah, right. Yeah, yeah.

00:26:26.39
Bill
So that's where that's

00:26:27.11
Mike
Well, Stella's been around longer, but yeah.

00:26:28.96
Bill
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

00:26:30.10
Mike
Yeah.

00:26:30.37
Bill
But so that's where that's where he and I met. And then we just kind of get kept getting thrown together. And then when we were done at the at the main part of the that, like, I'll call it the institution part, if you want to put it that way.

00:26:42.40
Mike
Right.

00:26:42.88
Bill
Not really.

00:26:43.42
Mike
Right.

00:26:43.95
Bill
But at the center, we went into a three quarter house and then he and i we were in a um a small bedroom in the upper of a duplex with, you know, in this duplex, we're ended up being what total of 15 guys, I think all all said and done.

00:26:55.65
Mike
Yeah, right.

00:26:56.40
Beth McDonough
Oh, wow.

00:26:57.44
Bill
But yeah, so he and i lived together in in a small bedroom in an old home in Cleveland for a year, 11 months, let's call it.

00:26:57.48
Mike
Yeah.

00:27:01.28
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right. Yep.

00:27:04.27
Bill
And then um when we were done, Mike, you you say it best all the time. When we were done there, we got kicked out.

00:27:08.80
Mike
Yeah. We looked at each other and said, yeah, you ready to go out on your own?

00:27:10.21
Bill
yeah Yeah.

00:27:12.80
Mike
Nope, me neither. So we went and got a place together.

00:27:14.53
Bill
yeah

00:27:16.90
Bill
yeah And then, uh, so we were, we, we started to become better friends at that three quarter house.

00:27:17.13
Beth McDonough
There you go.

00:27:21.17
Bill
And then, uh, um, he had actually met my, well, through the media or through, uh, events and stuff like that, met, met my mom and then my stepdad and my sister and my niece.

00:27:26.33
Mike
yeah

00:27:30.23
Bill
And then, um, again, it's the joke that we all love to say, but, uh, you know, we, we invited Mike over for, um, Easter, Easter breakfast one year and he never, he never fucking went away.

00:27:38.12
Mike
Yep.

00:27:39.68
Bill
He's been here ever since.

00:27:39.79
Mike
Yeah. They fed me and I keep showing back up.

00:27:42.41
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:42.41
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

00:27:42.61
Bill
And that was, that was 14 and a half years ago.

00:27:42.61
Beth McDonough
and

00:27:44.92
Bill
So yeah, it's been, it's been a while.

00:27:45.26
Mike
Yes. Nope. Yep.

00:27:46.81
Bill
yeah

00:27:47.50
Beth McDonough
You still can't shake them.

00:27:49.31
Bill
Yeah.

00:27:49.30
Mike
nope

00:27:49.55
Bill
And he, he became family and um I mean, we don't, we're not biologically brothers, but that's the way we consider ourselves. And um yeah, we just became, we became family and it's funny, you know we go back to, I'll be back in Cleveland now and we walk into a meeting together and people like, Jesus Christ, it's like deja vu for some people.

00:27:56.05
Mike
yep

00:28:07.76
Bill
Cause it's just he and I, you know, 15 and a half years later, walk get into a meeting together the same as we did, you know, when we first got sober, but

00:28:13.76
Mike
Mm-hmm. Uh-huh.

00:28:14.20
Bill
um the The thing that is that I, had a couple of things that you said, first of all, finding your, the meeting right away, number one, having it be ah that the meeting was there out of necessity. It was closest to you, but obviously convenient for you, but finding a meeting you're comfortable with, that's huge.

00:28:29.46
Bill
ah But like you said, the people were saying all the right things. That's amazing. And we were doing the same thing. We were hearing that in our groups and our meetings. um You know, it's like you open your ears a little bit and yeah, you start hearing all the right things, but yes, you've got to have the right people involved.

00:28:42.70
Bill
Definitely.

00:28:43.16
Beth McDonough
Yeah, you just do. And that their only agenda really was for you, for them to take care of themselves in that meeting. And then also really to guide me, they were just, they opened their arms to me.

00:28:51.80
Bill
Right.

00:28:55.45
Mike
Mm

00:28:56.80
Beth McDonough
They didn't judge, you know, I didn't have to tell them anything. They already knew it. They read the papers and, um you know, I still needed to speak up in the meetings to own my behavior and take responsibility

00:29:02.09
Bill
Right.

00:29:08.08
Mike
hmm.

00:29:08.12
Bill
Sure.

00:29:10.00
Beth McDonough
You know, and they they, yeah, they really kept me on track, you know, and if I started to try to wiggle out of something, boy, did they yeah course correct.

00:29:15.56
Mike
Yes.

00:29:18.66
Mike
yes

00:29:18.91
Bill
Yeah. Call you on, called you on your shit. And, you know, to, to this day, the thing of but it is, and Mike and I were talking, we were talking about that a couple of months ago, I think Mike is that, um, I, the, I don't want some normal everyday individual, you know, some, some fucking idiot off the street telling me what to do or how to act.

00:29:35.55
Bill
I mean, if I'm acting a fool, I get it. But in general, um, I don't accept that very much from, you know, somebody that just in a general sense, um,

00:29:41.17
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:29:43.25
Bill
But anyone um that's, you know, understands and is in the program and understands the deal and, you know, because those are the people that I trust, they can pretty much tell me anything. Because to your point, Beth, is that I know they're they're doing it, yes, to help themselves, but they also have my best interest at heart.

00:29:58.56
Bill
And they're they're not going to try to hurt me, you know. And if they are, I've met, we've met a few people over the years that are not the, not the best examples of, you know, Alcoholics Anonymous or any recovery person, but it's been few and far between.

00:30:01.16
Beth McDonough
no

00:30:04.93
Mike
Well, one or two.

00:30:11.78
Bill
So um yeah, anyone, anyone under this, this umbrella of this recovery and Alcoholics Anonymous and things like that, boy, it's a, it's a, I don't want to say it's an, it's an all around trust no matter what, but you know, there's a large percentage of my trust that goes into that unless they prove me wrong right off the bat.

00:30:29.57
Mike
Right.

00:30:30.89
Beth McDonough
Yeah, I totally, totally get that. That makes perfect sense.

00:30:33.63
Bill
Yeah.

00:30:34.71
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

00:30:36.65
Bill
So with the, um with that meeting, so obviously you did the, did the whole, I mean, that meeting for a year. ah When did you start to get, kind of get stuff back, you know, like a job, maybe you get your car back, get your license. When did you think start to come back into play and, and how'd you, how'd you handle that? Or how'd you feel about that?

00:30:53.32
Beth McDonough
Well, Bill and Mike, it took a long time, you know,

00:30:55.94
Bill
Yeah, that's all right.

00:30:56.55
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:00.18
Beth McDonough
Um, I, you know, was pretty, pretty damaged goods. And, ah so when I was still back in my home and going to the meetings and all of that, and I'm like, well, I reached out to the TV stations in Minneapolis and St. Paul and all of them very quickly told me, no, we have no place for you here.

00:31:21.98
Mike
right

00:31:22.15
Bill
Right.

00:31:22.56
Beth McDonough
You know, and I get it. I mean, yeah I'm bad PR for anybody right now, including myself.

00:31:27.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:31:27.27
Bill
Right.

00:31:27.21
Beth McDonough
And, you know, and I'm like, okay. I'm going to have to pivot. What am I going to do with my life now? And when I did travel covering all of these disasters, I was on a go team for the networks.

00:31:40.39
Beth McDonough
And that essentially means, you know, if a plane goes down or whatever tragedy or crisis is going on, you grab your bag and within 30 minutes, you know, you're going to a scene somewhere, you're going on the chopper to get there. And I loved all of that.

00:31:52.38
Beth McDonough
Um, and And I was like, well, those days are gone now. So what am I going to do? But when I would go travel to these stories, um I have dogs, rescue dogs.

00:32:03.36
Beth McDonough
And so I would either hire dog walkers or I take him to boarding.

00:32:07.31
Bill
Mm-hmm.

00:32:07.91
Beth McDonough
and Granted, I couldn't drive. I couldn't get around. So I'm like, OK, Beth, what are you going to do to start to make money? You know, because the clock is ticking here and I knew my home would be foreclosed um because no one would buy it.

00:32:17.09
Mike
Mm hmm. Mm

00:32:19.48
Beth McDonough
And so I went to my neighbors because of course I could walk to their homes and I live in a town home in the small town home community. So I could just go door to door to door. And I said, Hey, blah, blah.

00:32:30.72
Beth McDonough
You know, they all knew what had happened.

00:32:32.75
Mike
hmm.

00:32:33.22
Beth McDonough
Would you be open to letting me walk your dogs while you're at work for like $20 a pop? You know, I'll walk them. I'll pick up their poop. By the time you get home, you know, ah your animals are covered.

00:32:46.11
Beth McDonough
And so a few said yes early on because I needed a way to really put some food and on my table.

00:32:52.38
Mike
Right.

00:32:52.87
Beth McDonough
And um and so I was able to start to build up that dog walking business. And then people were like, hey, can you daycare and board my dog at your house?

00:33:02.83
Bill
Thank

00:33:03.00
Beth McDonough
I'm like, ah no, because mama's about to be homeless. but You know, I'm looking for a bridge to go under. And um so I was like, no, you know, I can't do it out of my home. I think I'm going to be here for 30 more days.

00:33:14.70
Beth McDonough
You know, and then the official official paperwork will be on my front door that everyone can see and enjoy. um But one of my clients who I did not know before any of this had happened, and I started walking her dogs and she said, where are where are you going to go? what are you going to do? And I'm like, I have no idea, you know, because I lost lot of my friends because they just didn't know who I was becoming. And they certainly didn't want to be connected to me right then.

00:33:39.73
Mike
Right.

00:33:39.64
Beth McDonough
And I lost some family members, most especially my dad. Um, cause he just, you know, his heart was broken. ah disappointed him. He thought of alcoholism as a character fault instead of a disease.

00:33:51.69
Mike
a

00:33:51.84
Bill
Right. right

00:33:52.89
Mike
Right.

00:33:53.00
Beth McDonough
And he he just couldn't overcome, you know, and I'd caused some pain there the last couple of years, even though we were very close.

00:33:58.02
Mike
Right.

00:33:59.88
Beth McDonough
Um, but you know, he just, he just couldn't take all the, all the pain and the hurt anymore. and So I really didn't have anywhere to turn. It was going to be up to me to kind of pull myself out of this. And, um, this client whose dogs I was walking,

00:34:13.41
Beth McDonough
She said, you know, I've got this empty warehouse. You're going to have to go in there and clean it up and paint it and whatever. And ah but if you want it, I'll run it to you at a really reasonable price so you can start to get back on your feet.

00:34:24.07
Mike
Hmm.

00:34:25.69
Beth McDonough
and um And the first time I went in this warehouse, I was like, this place ought to just be demolished, you know.

00:34:31.41
Mike
Ah. Mm-hmm.

00:34:32.39
Beth McDonough
But, hey, it was the only option I had at the moment. And I also happened to notice that there was a bathroom with a shower at this warehouse.

00:34:39.85
Mike
ah

00:34:41.17
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, all right, this is where I'm going to be living with the dogs. Okay. I can do this. You know, I got myself and I put myself in this position. Uh, but she was kind enough to say, you know, why don't you renovate, build some kennels, do all of that here at the, at the complex.

00:34:57.15
Beth McDonough
And you can come stay in the lower half of my house for a certain number of months to give you time to get back on your feet. And I'm like done and done, you know, she threw me a lifeline and, um,

00:35:08.80
Bill
Right.

00:35:10.17
Beth McDonough
So because I couldn't afford contractors and I've never done any construction in my life, but thank God for YouTube because I had to learn. And, you know, so I'm like, you know, scrubbing down the walls, painting them, getting everything out of this old warehouse, blah, blah, blah.

00:35:26.25
Beth McDonough
I built some kettles and, you know, open for business, a doggy daycare and boarding and grooming facility. And slowly but surely by word of mouth and ah you know, people, I think, gave me a little more time to get my legs under me.

00:35:42.36
Beth McDonough
um The business started to grow. And over three years, it actually turned into shocker to me because I've never run a business before my life. um But, you know, when you're desperate, you'll do anything and you'll throw a whole bunch of stuff at the walls to see what sticks.

00:35:57.47
Bill
Right.

00:35:57.48
Beth McDonough
And i i turned this into a viable business and i worked it up to 11 employees and I had 60 dogs that we kept there every day. and but people started to notice and businesses were approaching me about trying to buy the business because it's, it's a cash cow it is.

00:36:14.07
Bill
ah

00:36:15.71
Mike
right

00:36:15.81
Bill
right

00:36:15.94
Beth McDonough
And then I'm like, I can't sell my business. I don't know what I'm going to do with my life. I can't get back into TV. That's all I've ever done. Nobody will hire me. I tried, you know, ah i can't sell this business.

00:36:28.50
Beth McDonough
You know, how will I eat? But a little more time passed and then more and more businesses started to offer me you know, a little more money and a little more money. And I'm like, well, now you've got my interests, you know, cause I've got a lot of ground to make up here.

00:36:43.59
Beth McDonough
And in the world of reading tea leaves, I'm like, you know, they keep coming back to me, trying to get me to sell the business, you know, the tea leaves, something's going on in the universe. that That's Beth, you got to move on the time.

00:36:55.44
Beth McDonough
You know, the world's trying to tell you the time is now, but I also thought, well, what's on the other side of this?

00:36:56.22
Mike
Right.

00:36:58.09
Bill
right

00:37:00.48
Beth McDonough
I had no idea. Um, But I finally agreed to sell the business. And the exact day that I was handing the keys to the new owner, ah KSTP, which is an ABC affiliate Minneapolis, called me out of the blue.

00:37:17.83
Beth McDonough
And mind you, this is one of the TV stations that they are. Well, let me say this. They were the only ones that would meet with me three years earlier, but only to tell me no way, no how to my face.

00:37:28.02
Mike
think

00:37:29.26
Beth McDonough
So, you know, I had

00:37:29.54
Bill
they were they wanted to be They wanted to be courteous at least, tell you to fuck off to your face.

00:37:33.20
Beth McDonough
You know, think I think they wanted to make sure I got the message.

00:37:37.78
Bill
No, and that's so that's just, I don't know, there's there's a certain beauty to that, but I mean, i I get it, you know?

00:37:37.84
Mike
Right.

00:37:43.06
Bill
I mean, it's like, okay, we're just going to make this official, but still, that's that's kind of that's baffling to me. So I'm sorry about that. Go ahead. Right.

00:37:49.62
Beth McDonough
Yeah, no. And, you know, strangely, in hindsight now, it was also a no that I needed. Like nobody was going to give me a break or a second look until they were confident I had my shit together and I was sober.

00:37:57.73
Bill
Right.

00:38:01.93
Bill
Oh, sure. Right.

00:38:04.97
Bill
right

00:38:04.99
Mike
Right. Yeah.

00:38:06.15
Beth McDonough
um um Understand that. And so when they called out of the blue on that day that I was selling my business and they were like, hey, we've got this investigative producer job open. It's not on camera.

00:38:19.20
Beth McDonough
um You know, you won't be talent. You'll be shaping and crafting stories for other people. And if you're OK with that, we'd like to talk to you about offering you a job. And I'm like, you know, I'm like, oh, my God, a regular paycheck, health insurance, 401k, what?

00:38:34.28
Beth McDonough
You know, because I lost all that. And um so I met with them and, you know, they're like, we've got some rules.

00:38:36.83
Mike
Right.

00:38:41.12
Beth McDonough
You got to go to AA once a week. And I'm like, done.

00:38:44.14
Mike
Yeah.

00:38:44.53
Beth McDonough
You know, what else do you need from me? And they said, we will do random drug testing and alcohol testing on you.

00:38:46.00
Mike
Right.

00:38:49.72
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, bring it.

00:38:50.14
Mike
it

00:38:50.60
Beth McDonough
Let's go.

00:38:51.40
Bill
Do you do you have it to you want me to pee right here right now?

00:38:51.45
Mike
Right.

00:38:51.61
Beth McDonough
What else you need?

00:38:54.32
Bill
I'm good.

00:38:55.05
Mike
I but almost' almost studied up. No problem.

00:38:57.38
Beth McDonough
Yeah, I got that down, right? And, ah you know, the first time I did to the P-test, my boss actually did go in the restroom with me.

00:39:04.59
Bill
Oh, sure.

00:39:04.82
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:39:04.96
Beth McDonough
um

00:39:05.30
Bill
Right.

00:39:05.35
Mike
Sure.

00:39:06.05
Beth McDonough
You know, don't blame her. And um it was a her. We should know that.

00:39:10.84
Bill
hey

00:39:10.88
Mike
yeah

00:39:11.36
Beth McDonough
And, ah you know, and I don't blame her. and ah But when she started to, I had to earn her trust.

00:39:17.10
Mike
Right.

00:39:17.39
Bill
Sure.

00:39:17.54
Beth McDonough
You know, and once once we got to that point and and I let her know, um you know, you are giving me another chance.

00:39:17.87
Bill
Yeah.

00:39:23.08
Bill
Right.

00:39:26.42
Beth McDonough
And I don't believe in saying I won't disappoint you because that feels negative to me. And what I said was, I will make you proud for that. It will make you proud.

00:39:34.92
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:39:35.56
Beth McDonough
And I will make myself proud. And I will show you how grateful I am every day that you let me work here.

00:39:42.29
Mike
Right.

00:39:42.45
Beth McDonough
And she's like, all right.

00:39:42.85
Bill
right

00:39:44.34
Beth McDonough
And cause I knew if I blew this, I mean, I was done. ah There's no coming back.

00:39:47.57
Bill
right

00:39:49.46
Beth McDonough
And, um,

00:39:49.67
Bill
So so real real quick here, and this sounds like ah not only a turning point, but maybe a good point for us to to take a little break. What do you think, Mike? and then we can get back into and into your story, Beth. You okay with that?

00:39:59.55
Beth McDonough
Oh, absolutely. Do what you got to do.

00:40:00.81
Bill
Okay. All right.

00:40:01.86
Mike
hey Cool. We're going to be back with ah the other side of this right after these words from our sponsors.

00:40:19.55
Bill
All right, everyone. Welcome back. Isn't there an Aerosmith song? Take me to the other side.

00:40:24.67
Mike
Nah, not a good one.

00:40:26.70
Bill
I know that's why I bring it up. Okay. So real, real quick side note, Beth, Mike is a, tell her your opinion on music. What do you think about music in general?

00:40:33.66
Mike
ah There's two kinds of music, good and bad.

00:40:38.64
Beth McDonough
i Well, there you go.

00:40:38.98
Bill
yeah he's Yeah, so he he's a music guy, and I love every part of it.

00:40:39.96
Beth McDonough
That's simple.

00:40:44.74
Bill
I love the fact that he hates certain things really bad. um I actually like i like the things that he hates more than I like the things that he likes because um sometimes it's so irrational, but it doesn't matter to me.

00:40:53.08
Mike
Right. Mm-hmm.

00:40:56.91
Bill
um It doesn't make any sense to me, but I think that's what's that's what's funny because it it makes sense to him and that's all that matters.

00:40:58.91
Mike
right see

00:41:02.93
Bill
It's kind of the you know this acceptance part of this whole thing that we do. um But I get so much happiness, joy, and humor out of out of his sometimes just completely weird and fucked up ideas about music.

00:41:15.47
Mike
My irrational opinions.

00:41:15.50
Bill
So everyone's the...

00:41:15.74
Beth McDonough
huh

00:41:17.15
Bill
Right. But so every once in a while I'll throw out and I know, I mean, he likes, he likes Errol Smith, but not, not that realm.

00:41:22.89
Mike
Oh, yeah.

00:41:23.33
Bill
And I knew he didn't like that. particular I was guessing he probably didn't like that song. That's why I said it.

00:41:27.03
Mike
No.

00:41:28.55
Bill
So um I do. I try to poke the bear every once in a while. And then sometimes it's, he surprises me. And I'm like, you actually like that song?

00:41:36.55
Mike
no

00:41:37.20
Beth McDonough
Okay. That's funny.

00:41:37.72
Bill
So, yeah.

00:41:38.26
Beth McDonough
yeah Yeah. That's funny. I get that. And that's friendship and roommates, right?

00:41:42.38
Mike
Right.

00:41:42.55
Bill
Yeah, yeah, exactly. Exactly. So, all right. So you, you've got the, you've got the job now at the ABC affiliate back in Minneapolis, correct?

00:41:51.88
Beth McDonough
Correct.

00:41:52.81
Bill
And then obviously you're, and I love the way you put that. I mean, basically, ah you know, showing the individual and you're, you're going prove yourself, which is what we do, which what we should be trying to do every day. Anyhow, actions, right, Mike?

00:42:04.37
Mike
absolutely. Right. Don't don't expect people to hand us anything. We need to earn everything.

00:42:10.87
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

00:42:11.51
Bill
Yeah, which is which is great.

00:42:12.22
Beth McDonough
I mean, you know, we caused it and it's self-inflicted.

00:42:15.10
Mike
Yeah.

00:42:16.24
Beth McDonough
So we've got to earn.

00:42:16.69
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:42:17.32
Beth McDonough
If we want credibility, we got to earn it.

00:42:19.87
Mike
Yep.

00:42:19.80
Beth McDonough
You want somebody's trust?

00:42:20.01
Bill
Exactly.

00:42:20.68
Beth McDonough
Go earn it. You want them to like you again?

00:42:21.91
Mike
Yep.

00:42:23.52
Beth McDonough
Go earn it.

00:42:24.63
Mike
Yep.

00:42:25.31
Bill
So the the job that you have, like you said, you're you're creating stories for people. you're You're not on camera. You're not, as you put it, you're not part of the talent, like the upfront type of thing. So you're in the background creating stories. Is that what you're doing? or

00:42:36.81
Beth McDonough
Yes. Yeah.

00:42:37.74
Bill
Okay.

00:42:37.84
Beth McDonough
So I was in the background creating stories that anchors and other reporters would then put together and, um, you know, be on live TV with later.

00:42:45.58
Bill
Right.

00:42:45.89
Beth McDonough
And, um, and you know, I, I was nervous about going back into the newsroom cause, uh, You know, it can be a tough place to work and people can, you know, journalists are not afraid to ask you hard questions, don't you know?

00:42:54.91
Mike
he

00:43:00.57
Mike
Sure.

00:43:01.33
Bill
right

00:43:01.42
Mike
Well, and it was also the environment that you fucked everything up in. Right.

00:43:07.05
Beth McDonough
Exactly. And believe you me, that was in the back of my mind of like, you know, Beth, you know, just be careful, you know, don't.

00:43:08.29
Mike
Right.

00:43:16.50
Mike
right

00:43:17.48
Beth McDonough
So one of the things that I did, you know, my party days were over. And everybody else would go out maybe after work and I never would.

00:43:25.44
Mike
Right.

00:43:25.53
Beth McDonough
um You know, and i I'm a social person. I love the camaraderie, but I just couldn't put myself in that position.

00:43:33.55
Mike
right

00:43:33.79
Bill
Right, right. right

00:43:34.34
Beth McDonough
And to my colleagues credit, they didn't ask me. They respected, know, they just yeah, they didn't want to put me in a compromising position. And so, you know, I just cut that out and I was all about the work and just doing everything I could to.

00:43:50.74
Beth McDonough
you know, get better, show my appreciation, help out in the newsroom. And then as things happened, you know, breaking news happens when it's least convenient for everyone.

00:44:01.44
Beth McDonough
And so some big breaking news was happening at the time and all of the reporters were out of the building already on their assignments. um But there was a carjacking with ah a little kid in the back of a car and, you know, a stranger had kidnapped this child essentially and carjacked the owner.

00:44:17.74
Bill
hmm

00:44:18.26
Mike
Right.

00:44:19.72
Beth McDonough
And, you know, they're looking at the buses are looking around the newsroom and you could tell they saw me and they're like, hmm, has enough time passed?

00:44:26.97
Mike
All right.

00:44:27.34
Bill
hey

00:44:27.61
Mike
Right.

00:44:28.75
Beth McDonough
Can we do this with her?

00:44:29.38
Mike
right right

00:44:31.09
Beth McDonough
You know, are we, you know, but they came to me and and they were like, you know, can you go out and and and do your thing and go cover this? We don't have anybody else to turn to, you know, and we'll talk about a little bit later if you're going to present this on the news or if, you know, you'll hand it off to somebody else.

00:44:44.91
Bill
Right. Right.

00:44:49.75
Mike
Right.

00:44:50.65
Beth McDonough
That's fair. Right.

00:44:52.17
Bill
right

00:44:52.23
Beth McDonough
And, uh, and I happened to in the world of, I'd rather be lucky than good any day of the week.

00:44:57.84
Mike
Right.

00:44:57.98
Beth McDonough
ah Um, my crew and I, cause you always leave with a photographer and a live truck operator. So my crew and I are, you know, going through South Minneapolis and of listening to the scanners and all of a sudden we see all these cop cars flying past us and they look at me, what do you want to do?

00:45:13.82
Bill
Thank you.

00:45:14.59
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, Well, their lights flashing. Follow them. We can hop in right behind him.

00:45:18.91
Mike
right

00:45:19.72
Beth McDonough
Let's follow them. They're going somewhere. And ah so we did. We happened to get very lucky and be in the right spot at the right time. And lo and behold, about a block later, you know, we go the cops but pull up and they start to surround this vehicle. So we all get out of our live truck and we're shooting video. And there is the suspect, you know, who.

00:45:40.99
Beth McDonough
They caught red handed with the child in the back seat. We also get this lovely piece of video of an officer, you know, very well trained and practiced in trying to help in a situation like this.

00:45:48.45
Bill
Right. Nice. Yeah.

00:45:52.16
Beth McDonough
And you see just kind of the tender care he had reaching into the kid who was screaming bloody murder, you know, because he didn't know who was in the front seat.

00:45:57.72
Bill
right

00:45:59.92
Beth McDonough
And we got that. No other media was there.

00:46:02.77
Bill
nice

00:46:04.41
Beth McDonough
And, you know, in my head, I'm like, this is why I do this job, you know.

00:46:08.77
Mike
All right.

00:46:09.11
Beth McDonough
I like those good gets. And we also, you know, got the suspect being arrested and I was able to approach her and question her a little bit. And, um, you know, I called us back into the TV station and talked to the bosses and they were like, you got what?

00:46:23.83
Beth McDonough
Cause that just doesn't happen very often.

00:46:25.89
Mike
right

00:46:25.92
Bill
Right.

00:46:25.79
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, I'm telling you right place, right time.

00:46:26.20
Bill
Nice.

00:46:28.31
Beth McDonough
Like, you know, and, uh, and they said, well, go get on TV with it.

00:46:29.15
Bill
Right.

00:46:34.71
Beth McDonough
And that was my start to getting back on TV.

00:46:37.67
Bill
nice

00:46:37.57
Beth McDonough
And, um, ah And I was so grateful for that moment and I loved it. And I'd love to be able to kind of share the good news of the, if the child being okay and you know, the suspect going to jail.

00:46:49.10
Beth McDonough
And so that gave me an opening to kind of get back on air if I wanted to be a reporter again, you know?

00:46:55.34
Bill
right

00:46:56.40
Beth McDonough
And so the bosses, you know, the next day they're like, how are you, how are you feeling? And I'm like, I feel great. Well, what they're really asking me is, do you feel like drinking? know, I'm like, Hey, I got a good get, and i feel great.

00:47:04.59
Bill
Right.

00:47:05.25
Mike
Right.

00:47:07.68
Mike
Right.

00:47:07.84
Beth McDonough
yeah You know, and they're like, and are you going to go out and celebrate?

00:47:11.42
Mike
a

00:47:12.36
Bill
hey

00:47:12.45
Beth McDonough
And they asked me and I was like, God, no. i mean, when you throw the kind of atomic bomb into your life that I did, you know, it hurts enough.

00:47:15.90
Mike
right

00:47:21.87
Beth McDonough
You don't ever want to do that again. And I'm like, no way. I'm no, you don't have to worry about that. I just am grateful to have a job and be here every day. And so, you know, they slowly would throw me out on various things.

00:47:34.60
Beth McDonough
ah news events. And then over time they were like, just go back out there, do what you do. And I'm like, oh my God, this is, so this is what the rewards of recovery feel like, huh?

00:47:45.44
Mike
Right.

00:47:45.52
Bill
Right. So um at this at this point, when you got that job in this this whole time frame, how long had you been sober at that at that time?

00:47:46.19
Beth McDonough
You know, like

00:47:54.24
Beth McDonough
three years.

00:47:55.45
Bill
Okay. Okay. And that's, I was just kind of curious because, you know, I mean, what, I don't know, I went back to Wisconsin three years and few months and I was still, I had my feet under me, but, you know, still had a little bit of that nervousness and that sort of thing.

00:48:10.60
Bill
What do you think, Mike, around that three-year mark is when you you kind of start to feel settled in a little bit, a little bit.

00:48:10.70
Beth McDonough
Sure.

00:48:12.80
Mike
Yeah. Right.

00:48:15.54
Bill
Yeah.

00:48:15.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:16.18
Beth McDonough
Yeah. Yeah. Emphasis on a little bit, right? You don't want to get too settled because you're afraid.

00:48:20.84
Bill
Right. And we had, well, we had a a sponsor in Cleveland that said, oh, you know, yeah when we hit three years, he's like, oh, good. He goes, yeah, you're really going to, really don't hit your strides until you hit five years. Then when you hit five, you're like, eh, when you hit 10, that's kind of what things smooth out. Then it's like, you know, you know what they do.

00:48:34.93
Bill
And they're like, well, with it, it,

00:48:35.39
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

00:48:35.61
Mike
Yeah.

00:48:35.55
Beth McDonough
They keep moving the finish line.

00:48:37.51
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:48:37.97
Bill
yeah and said you yeah just see Yeah, it's just that ye that that just that next mark of, yeah, maybe when you hit this, things will settle in a little bit.

00:48:38.27
Beth McDonough
and And it keeps you going though. It works. It keeps you going.

00:48:46.03
Bill
But then okay, so so three years now you're back kind of kind of doing your thing and you're still in Minneapolis um and feeling comfortable and you know so you're starting to get... so you you've At least been able to, number one, trust yourself, keep your program intact, ah be comfortable with in your own skin, it sounds like, but also starting to get the ah that that trust and respect of other people around you, though, right?

00:49:09.77
Beth McDonough
Yes. And that mattered to me a great deal because, you know, when you work in an industry that you love and it was my passion and it was everything to me and, you know, you spend 30 years trying to earn the respect and credibility of your colleagues, you know, that mattered to me.

00:49:13.30
Bill
Oh, God, yeah.

00:49:31.96
Bill
right

00:49:32.32
Beth McDonough
Um, I wanted them to know i was in it. I was part of this team and I was going to do my best. And even there was a really, um, seasoned photographer and so well respected for his skills and his brain and a really good news partner to work with.

00:49:49.89
Beth McDonough
But also, you know, a father of five and not afraid to get in your face and ask some questions.

00:49:55.76
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:49:55.75
Beth McDonough
And he did actually pretty early on in my employment there, you know, because he was like, hey, kid, let me talk to you.

00:49:59.48
Bill
Right.

00:50:01.20
Beth McDonough
He goes, you know, we all want you here and we want to give you a another chance. But we're also afraid of the bad press and we're afraid you're going to fall

00:50:08.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:50:09.71
Beth McDonough
You know, and he just he spoke real to me. And I knew him when I was a competitor at another TV station. and And he's very father like, obviously. And he said, so, you know, what's your deal? What's your story? And and are you OK? Are you good?

00:50:24.62
Beth McDonough
Like, do we need to worry about you? Is this going to come back on us?

00:50:28.28
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

00:50:29.10
Bill
right

00:50:29.27
Beth McDonough
And that just further kind of increased my motivation to earn their respect and their friendship. you know, and working together as colleagues.

00:50:39.86
Bill
Thank you.

00:50:40.19
Mike
yeah

00:50:42.12
Beth McDonough
And I was so respected him, became right to fired the questions at me and I answered him honestly. And, and he goes, thank you for being so open. And I said, it's not a cliche with me.

00:50:52.28
Beth McDonough
Ask me whatever you want. I go, we all know all my shits out there.

00:50:54.10
Bill
yeah

00:50:55.16
Beth McDonough
And he's laughed. He goes, oh yeah, we've seen the police reports. We ordered the CDs of your arrest.

00:50:58.68
Mike
Sure. Right. sure

00:51:01.54
Beth McDonough
You know, they probably knew more than I did about my crimes at the time. ah You know, and he was like, 0.24 and I go yeah I know pretty bad and he was like yeah um

00:51:08.34
Bill
I don't

00:51:12.98
Bill
okay

00:51:14.31
Beth McDonough
and so I appreciated that so it really just made me kind of double down on wanting to be the person that they needed me to be because that's who I wanted to be anyway.

00:51:22.85
Mike
he right Yeah, you know, and the accountability, it's a wonderful thing. You know, I want people to, i which is, it still sounds strange coming out of my mouth that I want people to trust me. I want to be, i want to be responsible.

00:51:42.44
Mike
What the hell, man?

00:51:44.09
Beth McDonough
Responsible. What?

00:51:45.76
Mike
Yeah, exactly.

00:51:45.96
Bill
Yeah.

00:51:46.64
Mike
i want to be accountable for my actions. What the fuck?

00:51:51.44
Beth McDonough
Yeah. And when people turn to you, you know, to give you work assignment or whatever, you really want to be able to to deliver for them. I mean, that's part of sobriety, right?

00:52:00.21
Mike
Yeah.

00:52:00.65
Bill
Right. but Yeah.

00:52:02.14
Mike
Right.

00:52:02.15
Beth McDonough
Is to own your word and deliver for the people. And, um, yeah.

00:52:07.16
Mike
hmm.

00:52:08.57
Beth McDonough
And I'm glad you said accountability, Mike. I appreciate that because, um, From day one after my second DUI, you know, I did, you know, I apologized to the boss.

00:52:17.51
Mike
Right.

00:52:20.92
Bill
Right. Right.

00:52:22.47
Beth McDonough
i I owned it. I let them know he didn't do it to me. i did it to him and I put him in a really bad position.

00:52:29.83
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:29.90
Bill
right

00:52:29.88
Beth McDonough
and i And I was very public with that.

00:52:30.09
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:52:32.25
Beth McDonough
And maybe six months after that, I remember getting a random phone call on my cell phone. And if I didn't know your number, let me tell you, i didn't pick up. ah you know, ah but for whatever reason, I picked up that day and it turned out to be a cop from another community nearby.

00:52:39.30
Mike
right

00:52:47.01
Beth McDonough
And he said, I just want you to know if no one's told you this, he goes, I appreciate the fact that you owned it all and you didn't try to blame other people. He said, doing what I do day in and day out, everyone tries to blame somebody else.

00:53:02.41
Mike
Right.

00:53:02.36
Beth McDonough
And he said, you're like, you owned it.

00:53:02.60
Mike
Mm hmm.

00:53:04.43
Beth McDonough
I did it. I'm sorry. And I'm going to try to, you know, make things right. And that phone call, you know, cause my father wasn't talking to me and, um, that phone call was just really pivotal in my life because I'm like, yeah.

00:53:18.90
Beth McDonough
And also for me and Mike, this might speak to you as well. Letting everybody know you don't drink anymore is its own form of accountability.

00:53:29.45
Bill
All right, right

00:53:30.22
Beth McDonough
Um, you know, cause you certainly, I just, I respect that word accountability so much and taking responsibility because, I was hiding behind lies for a number of years and it made me sick and it kept me sick.

00:53:45.25
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:45.10
Beth McDonough
And, you know, owning up to it, facing the truth, facing all of the consequences, you know, i it just makes you a better person and it puts you on the right path going forward.

00:53:45.37
Mike
Hmm.

00:53:57.66
Beth McDonough
And, As I work with um alcoholics through the years, you know, when I've had many of them ask me, you know, don't tell my husband. I don't want my friends to know. Work can't find out. I got a DUI.

00:54:09.41
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, hold on, you know, pump the brakes here. No, you step up. You own all of that. If you really want to get better, you know, you need to own it.

00:54:18.79
Mike
Yeah.

00:54:20.28
Beth McDonough
You need to come clean because it's the secrets that are killing you.

00:54:25.04
Bill
Right?

00:54:25.85
Beth McDonough
And that's part of the reason why you're numbing yourself.

00:54:26.06
Bill
Yep.

00:54:28.47
Beth McDonough
You know, so I'm always really clear with people. If you want to work with me as your sponsor, well, then you're going to own your behavior and you're going to make some phone calls that are really going to suck. um But you have to do all of that, you know, to start to work the steps. And so I'm a big believer in and accountability.

00:54:46.69
Bill
Right?

00:54:46.70
Mike
yeah

00:54:48.11
Bill
Yeah, and it is. it's ah I mean, first of all, I wasn't very healthy when I first got sober.

00:54:54.57
Mike
Hehehehehehe.

00:54:54.67
Bill
um And he knows.

00:54:56.50
Beth McDonough
What does that mean?

00:54:57.00
Bill
he Oh, that means that I was taken to Cleveland. I technically dragged. I wasn't bagged over my head and tied up and dragged there. But um I didn't want to go. i didn't want to be there.

00:55:09.04
Bill
Completely pissy and moany the whole time. Basically just like I'm going to do my time type of thing. I had no desire to stop drinking or anything like that. The only thing that saved me was being in, and we've talked about this a lot, is being in the right place and being in a safe place around people doing the right thing.

00:55:28.87
Bill
And I didn't really have... I didn't have a choice but to to stay there and follow these folks because I didn't have any place to go. um i had I had no money, no place to go, no no physical way to go anywhere.

00:55:41.88
Bill
And I wasn't strong enough to try to live homeless and try to live on the streets.

00:55:44.92
Beth McDonough
Mm-hmm.

00:55:47.03
Bill
um I didn't have any of that in me. ah To this day, I don't want to do that, you know, but I've

00:55:50.74
Mike
No, I'd rather not.

00:55:51.60
Beth McDonough
Yeah, it doesn't sound enticing, though.

00:55:54.27
Bill
Yeah, so I stayed long enough to let some of this stuff seep in, it took me a while, you know. But once once I turned that corner, you know, obviously it was a different story.

00:56:04.74
Bill
But literally the only the only thing that saved me was just being in a place that I couldn't – I could have left, but I couldn't because I had no place to go. It was my own selfishness and self-preservation that kept me sober to begin with. Would that be a fair to say, Mike?

00:56:20.24
Bill
Yeah.

00:56:20.62
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:21.24
Bill
Okay. And then I'm just, I got to, I still, I still ask his opinion. He's going to say it anyhow, but I'm like, does that sound right?

00:56:26.50
Mike
Right.

00:56:27.87
Bill
Cause I don't think I've ever, I don't think I've ever said those words before.

00:56:27.92
Mike
yeah Oh, yeah.

00:56:30.22
Bill
So, um, but, um, I didn't want to own up to, to anything.

00:56:30.89
Mike
Mm-hmm.

00:56:34.21
Bill
And then, you know, starting to get some things back and, you know, owning up to my ex-wife and my kids and my family and, You start, again, working through the steps and you get to the amend steps and all these different things.

00:56:44.81
Bill
It was a, I'm of the, I've always been in the sometimes slowly variety for everything, ah which is fine.

00:56:50.46
Mike
Mm Mm hmm.

00:56:50.88
Bill
And I mean, life, sobriety, everything like that. But um I need all, I need it to be slow or I'm i'm not going appreciate and I'm going to fuck it up. You know? So um like I said, I wouldn't have, to begin with, I wouldn't have wanted to get out there and own everything right away. Just not, not a chance in hell.

00:57:08.86
Bill
Yeah.

00:57:10.10
Beth McDonough
Interesting. But you got there eventually.

00:57:13.46
Mike
it

00:57:13.69
Bill
Yeah, like I said, and you know the in that the thing with it is, in um ah Mike and I come from very different backgrounds, but the same type of path, but with very, very different roadways coming in. um you know i I never did drugs. He did all of them.

00:57:26.97
Bill
um you know and And that's...

00:57:27.25
Mike
Yup. Right. I did them all.

00:57:28.98
Beth McDonough
So there weren't any leftover for you to do.

00:57:31.71
Mike
right

00:57:31.81
Bill
Yeah, he did. He did every every kind to to every level.

00:57:33.47
Mike
i did them all

00:57:36.11
Bill
and And I just never I never did. i had nothing against it. I just never did. um He had, you know, very past. I mean, he had tipped his toe in this thing before. I never did, um you know, but all these different things. But when it came down to it, we we thought the same way, felt the same way, ended up as it turned out. I mean, um had the same goals and aspirations, just got there in a different way.

00:57:56.21
Bill
um You know, but the yeah the the thing of it is, is that um I just I was fortunate. Everything, all these things happen. um You know, people and circumstances, we we believe, I think, that, um you know, people are put in your lives and circumstances are put in front of you at the right time. It sounds like all these things, you know, same things as as you're telling us, Beth.

00:58:15.64
Bill
And none of us can plan them. And we, as long as we get out there, nothing else, stay sober today, do the next right thing, keep moving forward. um As we always say, and Mike is the one that came up with this, um you know, try to try to make our little corner of the world a better place just for today.

00:58:31.36
Bill
um You know, ah things tend to work out. We have no fucking idea why, but they just do, you know,

00:58:35.87
Mike
Right.

00:58:37.33
Beth McDonough
Because they apparently were supposed to.

00:58:39.61
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

00:58:39.73
Mike
right

00:58:40.61
Bill
You know, and I mean, if if if either one of us, and I'm sure you can probably include yourself in this too, Beth, if either one of us, you know, tried to map out this plan, if you would have tried to map out that plan to be at that ABC affiliate of three years at that timeframe, you'd have fucked it all up, and I'm convinced of that.

00:58:55.80
Bill
But...

00:58:56.20
Beth McDonough
Oh, for sure. For sure.

00:58:57.38
Bill
you know you You left it all be and everything. you just out there you know you You're out there doing your thing and owning your shit and doing the doing all these things right, and then opportunities you know come your way. and it's up it's you know What well we've been told is AA math. that None of it adds up.

00:59:13.06
Bill
None of it adds up at all.

00:59:14.62
Mike
Right.

00:59:14.99
Beth McDonough
So true. And, you know, when I got offered that job, um you know, I'm like, what's the my my life is exponentially better than. And I'm like, what's the difference?

00:59:25.87
Beth McDonough
You know, I'm the I'm the same bet, the same reporter with the same, you know, credentials, blah, blah, blah.

00:59:28.83
Mike
a

00:59:31.92
Beth McDonough
But this time I'm sober and I can be counted on.

00:59:33.63
Mike
Right.

00:59:35.98
Mike
right

00:59:37.15
Beth McDonough
Yeah, makes a difference.

00:59:37.96
Mike
Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So ah you said that like, that okay, this cop called you out of the blue, right? And and this cameraman, you know, took you aside.

00:59:48.85
Mike
Do you run into anyone in the program? Like, you know, in your business? I mean, um we're everywhere. Right. You know, clearly you're there.

00:59:56.83
Bill
ha

00:59:58.37
Mike
ah do you do you ever run into, you know, clearly, I mean, I know cops that are sober in the program. You know, I know lawyers and judges and, you know, right.

01:00:04.91
Beth McDonough
Oh yeah.

01:00:05.11
Bill
Right.

01:00:08.07
Mike
So, I mean, do you come across to anybody in your travels who, you know, you give each other look? you know Friends of Bill W? Yeah, me too. Hey. Mm-hmm.

01:00:17.75
Beth McDonough
Yes. And in fact, um, this takes me back to my court hearing.

01:00:23.63
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:23.61
Beth McDonough
So when I ah went to court and I already been to treatment and I was doing aftercare, you know, seeing a therapist every week and, um, and But not just a therapist, a recovery therapist, because I was I was going all in.

01:00:36.75
Mike
Right.

01:00:38.10
Beth McDonough
i You know, I didn't ever want to go through this again.

01:00:40.99
Mike
Right.

01:00:41.09
Beth McDonough
And um so when I was at court, the state prosecutor wanted me to go to state prison for 90 days, um which that falls under the law. If you have two or more DUIs in 10 years in Minnesota.

01:00:56.65
Beth McDonough
Of course, I was horrified.

01:00:58.40
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:00:58.34
Beth McDonough
But she said in the court hearing, you know, she's a high profile person.

01:00:58.64
Bill
Right.

01:01:03.81
Beth McDonough
And by sending her to prison, we can send a message to other people out there.

01:01:07.96
Mike
Sure.

01:01:09.30
Beth McDonough
And you know what? I don't blame her at all. If I were in her shoes, I'd do the same thing. And, um you know, but I was horrified and scared, frankly.

01:01:18.14
Bill
Right.

01:01:18.21
Beth McDonough
And because I'm like, oh, my God, 30 days in state prison.

01:01:18.55
Mike
Mm

01:01:20.45
Beth McDonough
Can I go to county jail? Can I serve it in county?

01:01:22.91
Mike
hmm.

01:01:22.81
Beth McDonough
That was not an option, let me tell you. You know, no they were going to send me to state. And ah the judge said, before I send it you, I'd like to see you privately in my chambers. And I'm like, oh, my God, you know, like a really shitty day is about to get worse.

01:01:35.61
Bill
hey

01:01:37.11
Beth McDonough
OK, let me go take my licks. And so I went into his chambers. And when I came around the corner, he's standing there with his arms out wide and said, come here, let me give you a hug.

01:01:48.31
Mike
Hmm.

01:01:49.29
Beth McDonough
And that was the first moment of compassion. Not that I deserved it in all those months, but it was certainly the first moment of compassion anyone had shown me.

01:01:55.66
Mike
Right.

01:02:00.16
Bill
right

01:02:00.29
Beth McDonough
And he said, you know, when you were arrested, your case immediately showed up on my docket. So I've been following it. And then he goes, I knew it would be unpleasant.

01:02:05.94
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:02:07.81
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, yeah, you know, and I'm bawling. And and he said, want you to know that you will be able to come through this and I won't send you to prison.

01:02:20.10
Beth McDonough
He said, you're going to have some consequences, um but I'm not going to send you to prison because you're already taking some action.

01:02:22.13
Mike
Yeah. Mm-hmm.

01:02:25.76
Beth McDonough
And he said, and I you know that you can work your way through this. And he said, and I want you to think about this next statement. He said, before I came to your court hearing today, I went to my meeting and got my 20-year trip from the judge.

01:02:38.97
Bill
Oh, nice.

01:02:41.89
Mike
yeah

01:02:42.08
Beth McDonough
you know And he says, I know what hope looks like and why someone needs hope. So he said, I won't send you to prison. He did send me to a labor camp, though. um yeah

01:02:52.72
Mike
Cool.

01:02:53.23
Beth McDonough
yeah Hey, listen, part of the process. I earned it.

01:02:55.44
Mike
Yup. Yup.

01:02:56.37
Beth McDonough
you know, and, um, you know, but he said, so when we go back in there, I won't send you to prison. You'll have all these repercussions, but I need you to give me your word when the day comes and you're ready and you're grounded enough in your sobriety that you get out there and you start paying it forward, you know, and that's part of what I'm doing now.

01:03:14.71
Mike
Yup.

01:03:14.87
Bill
Right, right.

01:03:17.90
Beth McDonough
I'm, I've got enough time under my belt and, you know, I'm solid enough and,

01:03:18.75
Mike
yeah

01:03:23.78
Beth McDonough
I think I've learned enough over the years that I have something to offer people who are struggling themselves.

01:03:29.36
Mike
Mm-hmm. Nice.

01:03:29.54
Beth McDonough
And so, you know, that's part of the reason why I'm out here now is to keep my word to him.

01:03:35.56
Mike
nice

01:03:36.17
Bill
Nice. So what is, ah and I don't think we we got that unless I missed it. What is your actual sobriety date?

01:03:42.00
Beth McDonough
ah My sobriety date is December 2008.

01:03:46.17
Bill
Okay. And that's, I thought it was in that range, but I couldn't, I couldn't remember if you would actually set it, but okay, cool. So, and, and, you know, that's the thing. And like, ah we went to the, again, the Keating center, the sober living facility and Marty, who is ah the one that ran it and still does.

01:04:01.85
Mike
Right.

01:04:02.45
Bill
And a very good friend of ours.

01:04:02.97
Mike
sir

01:04:03.85
Bill
And I mean, this whole group of people that are friends of ours still, you know, to this day,

01:04:04.35
Mike
right

01:04:08.59
Bill
But I remember him saying to us, he goes, um when when you guys when all you guys, he's talking to room of 40, 50 guys. He goes, when you guys get out of here and start to get your lives back and this and that, he goes, you don't have to come back with you know a bag full of money or fly back in on a helicopter and make this grand entrance.

01:04:25.29
Bill
He said, the only thing that I ask you to is you know come back in and give back. Or if you can't come back here, give back someplace else. That's all he ever told us.

01:04:33.97
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:34.11
Bill
He said, give back.

01:04:34.11
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:04:34.87
Bill
And he goes, give back your time. Give back what you learned. you know, give, give selflessly basically, um, you know, in that sort of thing. And you don't, you don't think about it at the time. I know I didn't of how ridiculously simple that is, how rewarding it is.

01:04:45.76
Beth McDonough
No.

01:04:49.77
Bill
And, you know, really again, back to the AA math, it helps me and it helps all of us, um, to, to be able to help other people. That's, that's what keeps this whole thing going. And what, you know, we feed ourselves by helping other people. It's, it's ridiculous, but it's, it's really cool.

01:05:05.35
Beth McDonough
And it's simple, but it feels good.

01:05:08.13
Bill
Oh my God.

01:05:08.26
Mike
Right.

01:05:08.57
Bill
Yes.

01:05:09.69
Mike
And we like to feel good.

01:05:09.55
Beth McDonough
You know, it feels good. I mean, we've had enough of feeling bad, right?

01:05:14.40
Bill
Right.

01:05:14.39
Mike
Right. Well, i mean, we were chasing feeling good for, you know, decades.

01:05:15.07
Bill
Yeah.

01:05:19.69
Mike
Right.

01:05:19.59
Beth McDonough
Yes.

01:05:19.83
Bill
Right.

01:05:20.26
Mike
Yeah. That's all we want. That's all we've ever wanted was to feel good. Now we finally found a way to actually do it and, it you know, truly feel good. And it lasts, you know,

01:05:31.55
Beth McDonough
And it doesn't involve alcohol.

01:05:33.71
Mike
Right.

01:05:33.88
Bill
Yeah.

01:05:34.28
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:34.53
Bill
Yep.

01:05:34.68
Mike
It's not that 20 minute hit and then you got to fucking do some more.

01:05:38.41
Beth McDonough
Yep.

01:05:39.21
Mike
Yep. I mean, you got to keep doing some more, but, um you know, helping people. But yeah, but it's, but it, it, it lasts much longer and it's, it's real.

01:05:45.45
Bill
right

01:05:50.41
Mike
It's, it's not that false feeling good. It's, it's actually feeling good. Yeah.

01:05:55.47
Bill
Right.

01:05:55.36
Beth McDonough
It's actually feeling good and it's fulfilling.

01:05:58.30
Mike
Yeah.

01:05:58.88
Bill
Oh, absolutely. So what do drove you to to to put this all on paper? Because, I mean, obviously we want to, and, you know, for no better way to put it, we tell everyone this. I mean, we we love hearing stories. We love hearing it about the background.

01:06:11.62
Bill
I mean, the the rise and fall that you had is beautiful, but You know, we we ah we also know you you sold a book, so this is your opportunity for no better way to put it. You can whore out your book and tell us where it's at and and all that stuff.

01:06:22.17
Mike
Sure.

01:06:23.87
Bill
And selfish, selflessly yeah or selfishly, um you know, that's that's what we're here for, too. We love to, um you know, have people have the opportunity to promote what they're doing or what they wrote and that sort of thing.

01:06:36.11
Bill
So tell us about Standby.

01:06:39.00
Beth McDonough
Yeah, thank you for the opportunity. I do really appreciate that. um So standby is a TV term you guys may be familiar with, which is you know kind of that moment in time when we you reporters or anchors or whatever, ah you know, have the control room in our ear and you're suspended in limbo and you have to be prepared for whatever comes next.

01:06:49.02
Mike
sure

01:07:01.95
Beth McDonough
And so they kind of really just spoke to me.

01:07:02.71
Bill
Right.

01:07:04.86
Beth McDonough
And I've always said, stand by throughout most of my life, you know, and so it has really special meaning to me.

01:07:07.42
Mike
Uh-huh.

01:07:11.51
Beth McDonough
And um I started writing it when I was on house arrest. I was on house arrest for 37 days. And I also had an ankle monitor and then one of those wrist devices where they can detect symptoms.

01:07:24.79
Beth McDonough
if you have any substances in your system. And then I was subject also to random visits from various law enforcement, ah you know, to give me a little pee test and, you know, and 37 days is a lot of time to be up in your head.

01:07:27.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:07:32.72
Mike
sure

01:07:33.59
Bill
yeah

01:07:36.05
Bill
right

01:07:42.44
Mike
Right.

01:07:42.49
Bill
Right.

01:07:43.06
Beth McDonough
And so I've always been a writer. I write all my stuff as a reporter. and um And I thought, well, you know, my therapist says I should journal and I've never journaled before because I kind of felt like being a reporter was journaling anyway, every day.

01:07:57.10
Beth McDonough
ah But at the time I wasn't working, of course. And so, you know, i whipped out the computer to just kind of start writing of, hey, this happened to me today. This is how I feel, you know, kind of like a personal diary.

01:08:09.84
Bill
Right.

01:08:10.01
Beth McDonough
And initially it was kind of excavating things. old wounds, things that I'd been through. And then as a little more time progressed, it became about healing those wounds.

01:08:22.57
Beth McDonough
And then I thought, you know, I have learned all of this stuff that could be helpful to other people throughout my journey. And there's still more to come, of course, because I was pretty early into sobriety.

01:08:34.60
Beth McDonough
And I would stop and start writing the book because it's kind of hard to face yourself and all your demons on the computer every a day.

01:08:41.93
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:08:42.02
Bill
hey

01:08:41.91
Beth McDonough
And you're like, well, shit, I did that. Yep, I did that. That's all me. Um, but you know, so I'd have to stop and start a little bit to take a break. And as a reporter, you're always trained to be objective, you know, and tell everyone else's story.

01:08:56.30
Beth McDonough
But I realized this is kind of turning into a book. And if I'm going to try and, um, be of support to other people and offer some takeaway for them, i'm going to have to get vulnerable.

01:09:09.35
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:09:09.22
Beth McDonough
And that was pretty hard for me to do because, you know, you when you're in the public eye, you kind of become guarded, right?

01:09:09.68
Bill
Right.

01:09:14.55
Beth McDonough
Because people come at you. And they certainly did then, which I earned and deserved. um But I thought, you know, I just, I've learned so much and this might resonate.

01:09:26.52
Beth McDonough
with someone else at the time. So I just kept writing the book and stop and start for months and years, frankly, ah going back to it. And, you know, it wasn't until um about five years ago, the George Floyd riots that i I was shot during the riots.

01:09:41.88
Mike
Right.

01:09:45.13
Beth McDonough
and um And I also got Lyme disease while covering ah story. I was bitten by a tick and which totally just decimated my health.

01:09:56.02
Beth McDonough
And then I got shot while covering the riots in Minneapolis, and because that's where it all exploded.

01:10:01.63
Bill
right

01:10:01.49
Beth McDonough
And I recovered from the shooting and um I went on medically for the Lyme disease. And then I came back and when I came back, um it was July 2020. I was covering just what I would call a basic demonstration, not a riot at all, just a basic demonstration.

01:10:18.97
Beth McDonough
And as I was walking back to my live truck, a protester came up to me and pointed a gun at my head and said, your media, you're next. And I'm like, you know what? Mama's out. i yeah you know, I finally got my life back. But if I'm looking at all the stars here, this is not going to end well for me. And I and i was deathly ill with Lyme disease at the time.

01:10:42.14
Beth McDonough
And so I went back out on another medical leave and and then just decided not to go back. I'm like, you know what? Because i I had a new health problem. I had to go try and get my health back.

01:10:54.88
Beth McDonough
and And I didn't want to be shot, frankly. That didn't sound like fun.

01:10:58.35
Mike
No.

01:10:59.14
Beth McDonough
You know? um And so then I moved out here to, I don't know if you've ever been to Southwest Utah, Lake Zion National Park.

01:11:07.67
Mike
yeah

01:11:08.28
Bill
No, yeah our sister and niece were just there literally last last weekend.

01:11:10.17
Mike
Yes.

01:11:11.76
Bill
And that's it's on my bucket list. But yeah, I want to go out there. So, um yeah.

01:11:14.57
Beth McDonough
Oh, it's beautiful. And it's healing and big recovery communities here.

01:11:20.19
Bill
Really?

01:11:20.07
Beth McDonough
And I am kind of of the belief that you can't heal in the same place you got hurt.

01:11:26.46
Bill
Yeah.

01:11:26.59
Beth McDonough
um And so for me, I'm like, I, you know, I need a clean slate. I get, it's time to step away. I've got to, you know, I can't believe this, but I've got to figure out a way to get my health back and come back again, you know?

01:11:39.10
Beth McDonough
And um so I moved out here, which provided me a lot of time and space to sit down and finish the book and take a look at what I'd written up to that point.

01:11:51.04
Beth McDonough
And, now here I am all these years later, 16 years later that I'm grounded enough and I have enough perspective and enough education. And Lord knows I've had enough therapy with, you know, recovery experts and regular counselors.

01:12:04.96
Beth McDonough
And that I thought, you know, this might be a book for other people. It's not just for me anymore. it started out just for me to get all the guts and the yuck inside of me out.

01:12:11.31
Mike
he

01:12:15.22
Beth McDonough
I wanted the yuck in me out.

01:12:17.27
Mike
Right.

01:12:17.29
Bill
Right.

01:12:17.73
Beth McDonough
And, ah you know, i put it out into the universe and I'm like, other people might benefit from this too. Maybe I can share things.

01:12:24.26
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:12:25.64
Beth McDonough
Of course, not everything works for everyone. um But maybe the things that I did might help to make someone's journey a little easier or might help to make them successful.

01:12:37.35
Beth McDonough
You know, and like one of the things that I learned in treatment, um my friends used to say i' I'd have a glass of wine or just one drink and I'd go from zero to 100. And they're like, how you just had one drink?

01:12:51.79
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, I don't know. Maybe i have a low tolerance. You know, I don't know. But hey, let's have more because there's still something in the bottle there. We got to finish, um you know.

01:12:58.47
Mike
Right.

01:12:59.32
Beth McDonough
But when I went to treatment, you learn um kind of the medical why of that, which was an eye opening moment for me women.

01:13:04.13
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:13:07.30
Beth McDonough
women um have unique risks when it comes to alcohol, because we will become inebriated much faster and stay drunk longer because we're 30 percent more susceptible to the effects of the alcohol because we women have more body fat and less water.

01:13:24.25
Beth McDonough
and less of an enzyme needed to break down alcohol. Well, men, you lucky souls, you know, you have more water, less fat. That's not fair for the record. Anyway, but moving on, you know, you've got more water in your body.

01:13:34.13
Mike
Right.

01:13:37.88
Beth McDonough
And so the alcohol dissolves in water. So men, you know, can have the same amount of drinks as a woman, but a woman's going to be much more drunk and intoxicated.

01:13:42.58
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:13:50.28
Beth McDonough
And I'm like, okay, well, that explains that, you know, i I live in a world of facts. I can, I can connect with that. i'm like, okay, that explains that. And then, you know, you do your family history and all that stuff. And um ah both of my parents were gone.

01:14:05.04
Beth McDonough
But I learned from other relatives when you, the family history that I, both of my grandparents who I didn't know they were dead by the time I was born, they died of alcoholism. My biological father who abandoned us when I was a baby had alcohol and drug addictions and severe mental illness.

01:14:22.98
Beth McDonough
um And then had a sister die from a drug overdose. And, you know, so you start to look at all this and you put it all together and I'm like, okay, Beth, you know, the facts are in front of you. You can't drink anymore.

01:14:35.84
Beth McDonough
So fast forward to coming out here, you know, all of these things that I learned in treatment from the medical experts, you know, and one other thing that they told me, which was kind of really an aha moment and they told me that cravings last from anywhere from seven to 20 minutes, you know, and and that's a tough time on we early addicts, right?

01:14:52.97
Mike
Right.

01:14:55.91
Beth McDonough
Cause you're trying so hard not to drink, but all you think about is drinking cause you don't want to drink, you know, how to get yourself through the craving.

01:14:56.47
Mike
Right.

01:14:58.06
Bill
Right.

01:15:01.05
Bill
Huh.

01:15:02.84
Beth McDonough
And so my therapist said, go brush your teeth whenever you're in the thick of a craving. And and she goes, nothing tastes good after you brush your teeth. Like if you ever had a cup of coffee or eating an orange after you brush your teeth, you know,

01:15:15.95
Mike
right

01:15:16.16
Bill
right

01:15:17.88
Beth McDonough
There's no amount of beer in the world that tastes good after you brush your teeth. And I thought, you know, these are they're simple, but everyday kind of realistic things that we can all do. um And I'd never heard that before that, you know, I thought, well, you know, let me pass this information along in the book, too, because I really want to help to give people, you know, just some basic everything, everyday things that they could do to kind of give them the best advantage possible.

01:15:29.53
Bill
Right.

01:15:42.89
Beth McDonough
So that's what the book became for me. And um plus, i you know, I throw in some stories about how big news events like 9-11 that I covered or the, you know, 35W bridge collapse in Minnesota or the Oklahoma City bombing that I covered.

01:15:52.23
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:16:00.16
Beth McDonough
You know, and so I sprinkle some of that in there to also try to explain um why and how I started to absorb some of the trauma of the events that I covered.

01:16:01.16
Bill
Right.

01:16:11.43
Beth McDonough
You know, because your body, you know, takes in that trauma and holds on to it. And so I sprinkle all of that in there as well. In addition to just sharing some, even some thoughts, because I'm a big fan of like kind of writing down quotes and slapping it on a post-it.

01:16:28.71
Beth McDonough
And when I need it, I look at it, you know, one of them being you grow from what you go through, you know.

01:16:30.61
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:30.79
Bill
right

01:16:35.41
Mike
Right.

01:16:35.95
Bill
Right.

01:16:36.19
Beth McDonough
um So I put all of that in the book and then I'm like, you know what? I actually really think I've got a message here. ah Maybe people will be receptive to it. Maybe they won't.

01:16:48.12
Beth McDonough
But let me just give it a try, you know, because it makes us feel good to try and help others.

01:16:53.69
Mike
Mm hmm.

01:16:53.74
Beth McDonough
And if i you know, if what I had to say spoke to someone that they're like, OK, I'm going to go brush my teeth today, you know, not have a glass of wine instead or not have a cocktail or, you know.

01:17:01.90
Bill
Right. right

01:17:03.46
Mike
Right.

01:17:05.60
Beth McDonough
not go shoot up. um

01:17:07.56
Mike
Mm

01:17:08.21
Beth McDonough
So I just wanted to give people just some realistic things that they could really do, you know, because not everyone has money to go to treatment or not everybody has access to certain resources. But these are things that don't cost them a dime that they can do themselves to try and get them over that early hump.

01:17:21.80
Bill
Right.

01:17:24.90
Beth McDonough
And, you know, I also wanted to emphasize you can't rush the healing. You know, there's no fast forward button you can hit, but time, if you stick with it,

01:17:31.19
Mike
hmm.

01:17:34.04
Beth McDonough
you know, time will show you how much better your life is in sobriety. So thus the book. And um then i I had some friends read it and some people who, you know, talk straight with me. They don't blow smoke up my ass.

01:17:47.30
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:17:47.33
Beth McDonough
And they were like, you you've got something here that, you know, there's a lot of insight that others may glom onto and maybe they don't, but let's find out. Yeah. So I started putting it together and love the product. It really describes my colossal fall.

01:18:07.13
Beth McDonough
um And I put all of my failures in there and all the messy stuff. I don't gloss over anything, um you know, cause we all know you can't sugarcoat alcoholism or any sort of addiction.

01:18:13.65
Bill
Right. Right.

01:18:20.29
Beth McDonough
You know, I wanted people to just see all the spectacular flame out that I did. So they also know, you know, as bad as your life is when you're in the throes of it, you really can turn it around if you want to, you can turn it around if you want to.

01:18:35.65
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:35.70
Bill
right

01:18:38.44
Beth McDonough
And so, you know, the book opens up, I bring readers right into the jail with me and that's how we opened this baby up. And, uh, it's not a soft start.

01:18:44.94
Bill
Nice.

01:18:46.53
Beth McDonough
It's a hard start and you get to go through jail, all the court. I had many surreal experiences. Let me say that in jail.

01:18:53.46
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:18:54.09
Beth McDonough
And, um, I take people through that. I take people through some things that happened to be in public. You know, when people are like, you have some nerve being back out here, whatever, you know, cause that's just part of it.

01:19:04.38
Mike
h Sure.

01:19:06.89
Beth McDonough
And, um, I walk everyone through that, through the court hearing, the judge, and then how I slowly started to, you know, figure out, okay, how am I going to piece my life back together after this and after all of the consequences.

01:19:21.91
Beth McDonough
And it ends on a cliffhanger, which I did on purpose. Um, oh And some people, you know, the feedback I've gotten from some people is they didn't really appreciate that because they want to know the ending, you know, but I'm like, sometimes you got to live the ending before you can go back and write the beginning.

01:19:38.60
Beth McDonough
And it took me some years to do that.

01:19:38.95
Mike
All Hmm.

01:19:41.24
Beth McDonough
um And I really wanted to emphasize, you know, don't hide behind your secrets anymore ah because that doesn't get you anywhere.

01:19:48.76
Mike
right

01:19:49.32
Beth McDonough
So I've put the book out into the universe now to just really, you know, try to connect with people. And, you know, I want them to look at how bad my situation is, which is why my mugshot is on the cover.

01:20:05.18
Beth McDonough
And let's be honest, I have two mugshots, you know, but we put one mugshot on there so you could kind of see the before.

01:20:12.90
Mike
Right.

01:20:12.83
Beth McDonough
And this is what alcoholism is and addiction looks like. And then a picture of my, you know, my professional headshot from the newsroom to go.

01:20:21.19
Bill
Right.

01:20:22.35
Beth McDonough
And this is what sobriety looks like, you know,

01:20:24.82
Mike
Yeah.

01:20:25.29
Beth McDonough
You look at that and that's the life of an addict. There are always two sides of us. You know, you pick which one you want.

01:20:29.89
Mike
Mm

01:20:31.81
Beth McDonough
So I just really, I tried to be as honest and realistic and share all the guts of it. So people know we all fail and, you know, recovery is not a straight shot. It's like being on the highway.

01:20:44.41
Beth McDonough
Sometimes there are curves, sometimes there are bumps in the road, maybe you take the wrong exit, but your internal GPS will turn you around because we all know the right course of action.

01:20:55.03
Beth McDonough
But, you know, if we could quit shooting up on our own or quit drinking on our own, we'd probably all do it. Wouldn't that be easy and lovely?

01:21:01.26
Bill
<unk>re Right.

01:21:01.29
Mike
Right.

01:21:01.64
Beth McDonough
But that's not how that happens, you know? And so I just, I take everybody there. and um And I also thought some of my counselors are like, are you afraid someone's going to use that against you? And I'm like, how can they use it against me if I'm telling you what I did?

01:21:17.60
Mike
Right.

01:21:17.63
Bill
Right.

01:21:18.25
Mike
Exactly.

01:21:18.27
Bill
right

01:21:18.33
Beth McDonough
And people people need to know that. People need to know I was a quintessential asshole. I just got an email from one of my friends and I read it today and I was like, oh shit, I didn't even know I did that to her. And she said, we worked together in Philadelphia and we're very good friends.

01:21:32.90
Beth McDonough
And she said, I'm so proud of you. And you I see all your social media stuff. And she goes, did you ever ask yourself why I cut you off?

01:21:42.36
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:43.21
Beth McDonough
And my answer is no. I never asked myself that.

01:21:44.74
Mike
Right.

01:21:46.09
Beth McDonough
um And she said, you put my child in harm's way.

01:21:46.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:21:49.25
Beth McDonough
And that's why I cut you off. But I would be willing to be open to having a conversation about restarting a friendship with you now that I know how far you've come.

01:21:59.14
Mike
Hmm.

01:21:59.46
Beth McDonough
Okay.

01:21:59.77
Bill
Right. Right.

01:21:59.74
Beth McDonough
I don't remember putting her child in danger, but I am sure I did it.

01:22:01.94
Mike
Right. course. Right.

01:22:05.81
Beth McDonough
You know, I have no memory of that. You know, we don't remember the damage we caused, but everybody around us does.

01:22:09.88
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:22:10.06
Bill
right

01:22:11.34
Mike
Right.

01:22:11.80
Beth McDonough
and that was just an email today. And I'm like, God, Beth, you were such an asshole.

01:22:17.48
Mike
Yeah.

01:22:17.39
Beth McDonough
And, um you know, and I don't even remember it, but I kind of consider my sobriety now my superpower.

01:22:17.92
Mike
Nothing worthwhile.

01:22:25.38
Beth McDonough
I'm proud of the fact that I could quit. And I wanted to show other people, you know, look how poorly I treated others. And you can turn it around. And you too can have this as a superpower.

01:22:38.69
Beth McDonough
You just, there's a bunch of work you got to do um because they don't give it to you for free.

01:22:39.33
Mike
yeah

01:22:42.87
Beth McDonough
You know, nothing in your life is free.

01:22:46.03
Mike
nothing worthwhile

01:22:47.34
Bill
Yeah, exactly.

01:22:47.21
Beth McDonough
Nothing worthwhile agreed. And I wanted to turn, i had such shame and I was horrified by myself and my behavior. And I also wanted to turn the shame into service.

01:22:57.28
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:22:59.88
Beth McDonough
You know, let's let's turn this around and reframe it.

01:23:00.04
Mike
right

01:23:00.09
Bill
Right.

01:23:03.32
Beth McDonough
And um so that's why I wrote the book. And it just came out. It's on Amazon, Barnes & Noble. And it's also just this week now on Kindle. So someone can get an e-book if they want, because I know people like that.

01:23:16.03
Bill
Right.

01:23:15.89
Beth McDonough
And it will be out on audibles in about four or five months. But it it takes a little bit to, you know, record 160 pages and then do the production and all of that. And I also had someone ask me recently, it I had a book signing in Minnesota where all this happened.

01:23:26.46
Bill
Right.

01:23:32.91
Mike
Sure.

01:23:32.90
Beth McDonough
And they were like, why should I listen to you? I'm like, fair question. I would have asked that if someone else too, you know, and I'm also like, and believe you me, I asked myself that on every page for 160 pages.

01:23:38.39
Mike
Yeah. sure

01:23:46.76
Beth McDonough
Who am I and why are people going to care what I have to say?

01:23:50.51
Bill
right

01:23:51.76
Beth McDonough
But ah you know, I kept going because there might be someone out there who cares and who needs it. And that's worth it for me.

01:24:01.21
Bill
Right.

01:24:01.24
Mike
yeah Right. I mean, if you can help one person, you know, to become a better person, that's it takes. so all it takes

01:24:09.26
Beth McDonough
Yeah, that's the goal.

01:24:09.67
Bill
Yeah, and you know, yeah, and with ah with this whole podcast thing, and we've been doing now again for a little over three and a half years, and the the only reason that we started doing this was that um I was in Wisconsin at the time. Mike was still in Cleveland.

01:24:23.50
Bill
um There was kind of a void-ish that I was feeling on my side, but we we kind of, you know, I was listening to a sober podcast. We were kind of joking. We're like, well, we could fucking do that, talk into microphones and and do this sort of thing.

01:24:35.90
Bill
But the goal was is just for he and I were going to get together every Friday night ah because we used to go to a meeting together every Friday night. And this was going to be our, our Friday night meeting together.

01:24:47.07
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:47.12
Bill
And then we're like, Oh, it'd be, you know, kind of cool if people listen, but if they don't fuck them, you know, and um we started, we started doing it.

01:24:52.01
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:24:53.91
Bill
And just if you, if we talk about this all the time, our early audio was absolutely terrible, which is why we're so picky now about the audio.

01:25:02.93
Mike
disease

01:25:03.35
Bill
Because it it really, when you listen back to the old episodes, we're like, oh, my God, it sounds like, you know, tin cans and string or something like that.

01:25:03.61
Beth McDonough
Yep. yep

01:25:11.34
Bill
But, you know, the the beauty of it is it's this podcast journey has almost been as is messy and as growth, the growth of it's been almost like sobriety, if you really want to put it that way.

01:25:21.85
Bill
It's kind of cool. You know, we've seen just within it, we... We haven't had to do a lot. We've just learned from you know our time on this on this journey doing this. But the first, probably what, was it six months in when we were talking, Mike, when that's when we started to get just ah a handful of compliments here and there.

01:25:38.30
Bill
Not a lot, but you know hearing from ah normies, you know people that aren't even alcoholics that are like, you know they like listening to us because they just like listening to us.

01:25:43.38
Beth McDonough
Yep.

01:25:43.60
Mike
Right.

01:25:43.50
Beth McDonough
yep

01:25:47.44
Bill
um you know Got some comments from people. we We don't get a lot of comments. We don't get a lot of reviews. um We have a small-ish audience, but there're they're loyal and they're they're very, very engaged, the people that listen to us.

01:25:57.81
Mike
Yeah,

01:26:02.22
Bill
And quite honestly, we got to a point where, um like the AA stuff, we didn't know what we were going to do and all these other podcasts are, we're not AA and have all these disclosures. We're like, fuck the disclosures that people can't figure out who we are.

01:26:16.05
Bill
Again, fuck them.

01:26:16.99
Mike
yeah yeah, right.

01:26:17.88
Beth McDonough
Yeah, just fuck them.

01:26:19.21
Bill
Yeah, it's just fuck them. But then, you know, so we, we talk about AA with, without any problem whatsoever. People don't want to listen to it. That's fine. But the thing of it is all said and done We know at this point we realize that the things that we talk about do still help people, but we're still here for ourselves.

01:26:37.08
Bill
we We recognize that there's, you know, that we that there's people out there. We have a responsibility of sorts, you know, to to other people, not just ourselves.

01:26:43.72
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:26:46.57
Bill
But the other thing we decided we're never going to edit a thing when we record like this. The only reason that, again, when when we talked to begin with about that split when we do the commercial, that's the only cut that that I do in that episode. We don't edit anything else.

01:27:00.03
Bill
Everything from start to finish stays. You know, we don't we't edit anything um because we wanted it to be to be real. And to your point is that not everyone's going to get it if they don't, whatever.

01:27:12.14
Bill
But they're the people who get it stick around and those are our people. And those are the people that, you know, are there to to listen to us and we're there to speak to. And I It sounds like that's what that's what the deal is with your book, right?

01:27:24.02
Beth McDonough
Yeah, it is. And it's, you know, a little uncomfortable for me. I've never been in sales.

01:27:31.31
Bill
Right.

01:27:31.25
Beth McDonough
ah So it's a little uncomfortable for me to like, you know, go out there and pitch my book to people.

01:27:36.22
Bill
Right.

01:27:36.26
Beth McDonough
um You know, it's just not something um that I ever thought I would do. But, you know, if in order to get the book out to the masses, you got to go pitch it.

01:27:47.69
Beth McDonough
And so, you know, I've, it's

01:27:47.94
Bill
Right.

01:27:47.97
Mike
Right.

01:27:50.23
Beth McDonough
not been a struggle, but it's something I've come to terms with like, okay, since I've got it published and you know, it's out there and if people, I have to make people aware of it, you know, so they'll have this tool, they'll have this companion.

01:28:00.62
Bill
Right.

01:28:00.75
Mike
right

01:28:01.07
Bill
Right.

01:28:04.08
Beth McDonough
So I've reframed it in my mind because you know, who likes to be sold something? None of us like to be sold anything of like, I've got to get out there and make people aware of the book so I can build a bridge between the message in the book and you, you know,

01:28:18.95
Bill
right

01:28:19.11
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:19.34
Beth McDonough
And so I look at it more now is, is it book promotion? Yes. But it's also building a bridge to the community of people who need it, who could benefit from it. So, you know, I just go, Beth, get over yourself.

01:28:32.23
Beth McDonough
This isn't about you anymore. It's actually about, you know, doing it for others.

01:28:33.54
Mike
Yeah.

01:28:36.40
Beth McDonough
So, you know what?

01:28:37.04
Mike
yeah

01:28:37.97
Beth McDonough
You don't like doing the sales pitch. Well, it's just part of it. And get out there, you know, and go help others.

01:28:41.62
Bill
Right.

01:28:41.79
Mike
yeah

01:28:44.03
Mike
Right, yeah, it's like leading meeting.

01:28:44.28
Bill
One.

01:28:45.79
Mike
you know It's not my favorite thing in the world to do, but and it's funny, there are some old-timers here in Cleveland, they'll say, you walk up with a tie to a meeting, and they go, oh you're pitching tonight.

01:28:58.71
Mike
Yes, you're pitching this thing to the newcomer. That's what you're doing. And I say, okay, yeah, that's what I'm doing.

01:29:03.32
Bill
Okay.

01:29:05.22
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:29:05.41
Beth McDonough
I remember in, of course, my home group meeting back in the day, there was a guy and he was just, you know, rough around the edges. But my God, we all listened to him because he was spot on. He knew his stuff.

01:29:20.15
Beth McDonough
And pretty early in my recovery, ah you know, they go around the room and I was not going to talk that day. And he came and he sat down next to me and he was like, I'm going to make you get up there and get uncomfortable.

01:29:32.17
Beth McDonough
So start planning on what you're going to say. And I thought, what a great line. Get up there, go get uncomfortable, you know, and and grow from it.

01:29:38.92
Mike
Yep.

01:29:38.99
Bill
Right.

01:29:40.37
Mike
Yeah, again, you know, back...

01:29:40.65
Bill
Right.

01:29:42.54
Mike
Absolutely. And back to the thing, you know, we want to feel good. That was another, i wanted to be comfortable, you know, and chased it for years. And, and yes, um, the beautiful thing about this, this program is yes, you have to make yourself uncomfortable to become comfortable for real.

01:29:59.68
Mike
And that's, yeah, you know, so get uncomfortable. It's a good thing.

01:30:02.43
Beth McDonough
Yeah.

01:30:03.47
Bill
right

01:30:03.34
Beth McDonough
You have to earn the right to be comfortable, you know, and and then, you know, and I appreciate, I looked up your website before we were talking today, you know, just kind of get a feel for what the podcast was about.

01:30:05.27
Mike
Yeah. Yep.

01:30:13.13
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:17.02
Beth McDonough
And I'm so thrilled I did because I have a lot of dark humor in my book, yeah you know, cause listen, the stuff we do is, you know, it's calamitous and

01:30:21.73
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:22.00
Bill
hey

01:30:27.54
Mike
Sure.

01:30:28.53
Beth McDonough
to survive it and get through it, you know, you you have to find some humor in it all because it's just so horrific.

01:30:33.03
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:30:33.48
Bill
Right.

01:30:35.13
Beth McDonough
And so what I've told people too is I'm like, you know, if it's embarrassing, it's already in the book.

01:30:43.53
Bill
Right.

01:30:43.46
Beth McDonough
If it's really embarrassing, it's chapter 42.

01:30:43.70
Mike
Right.

01:30:43.77
Bill
Yeah.

01:30:46.87
Mike
yeah

01:30:49.12
Bill
Well, and and here's the other thing with the, with the book. And that's what, when I, you know, I joke about it when I said it, well, you know, whoring things out, but um that's one of the coolest things because we love to see people, um you know, to, to be able to, you know obviously go, go through the things that we go through and then um become creative and then have a thing. And, you know, we'd love to be, be a part of that if we can help to help promote it.

01:31:09.91
Bill
And um quick question, and ah and I'll tell you the reason afterwards why I'm going to ask this, but have you ever heard of the sober curator, the website?

01:31:17.06
Beth McDonough
I feel like I have.

01:31:19.11
Bill
if you If you haven't, look it up. And we're we're part of ah we're we're part of that group um affiliated with We're Sober Curator. So we contribute and they pick up our our podcasts and all those sort of things. And it's this whole group of people that one individual they created, and her name is Elise Bryson.

01:31:36.81
Bill
ah She's up in Portland, California. And or no, she's in Seattle. I'm sorry, not Portland.

01:31:41.54
Mike
Yeah.

01:31:41.99
Bill
So she's up in Seattle and she's the one that started it during the pandemic. And basically it's a it's a website about living sober. It's got a lot of fashion shit and all the stuff that has nothing to do with Mike and I.

01:31:53.54
Bill
um But she's really good at promoting um living sober.

01:31:53.62
Mike
hmm.

01:31:57.57
Bill
And usually what we'll do is when we have a guest like yourself, especially an author, we'll usually throw the episode at her and she'll put it up on the website. But a lot of times what she'll do is she'll um read the book and then she'll do a companion piece. She'll do a review of the book and then um companion to either put the, put our podcast episode up first and then tie it, link it in later with the book review or vice versa.

01:32:20.15
Bill
So take a look at the website. If you're, if you're up for it, I'll take me a quick email and, um I know number one, she, I, this episode, I think will play well on there. That's number one.

01:32:29.31
Mike
Mm-hmm. Mm-hmm.

01:32:30.41
Bill
But I think your book would also, you know, play well with that, with that crowd. And I know that Elise or one of the other curators would certainly read it, review it, and then, you know, gives you a little bit more, more of an opportunity to to promote the book. They're, they're all over the place with stuff. So.

01:32:45.83
Beth McDonough
Oh my gosh, thank you for that. i will certainly take a look, you bet.

01:32:49.95
Bill
Yeah, it's ah it's a cool website. We ran across it by accident because the way it came about, Elise did, what, three years ago? um Two and a half years ago now. was Father's Day few year a couple years ago.

01:33:01.56
Bill
She did this um because she'll do like stuff on podcasts and this and that. She's like, the top 10 male-run podcasts to listen to for Father's Day coming up. And I'm like, ooh, male podcast couple years ago. you know We're at that point probably a year and a half into into this thing.

01:33:17.61
Bill
And I read through this list and we're not on it.

01:33:20.08
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:33:20.24
Bill
and And I'm like, na'll um like not only are we male-led, we got fucking two of us over here.

01:33:20.90
Beth McDonough
What?

01:33:25.21
Bill
So I put this post up on Instagram and basically shamed her into, ah into I mean, i tagged I tagged this over Curator. I did all this stuff. I'm like, whose leg do we have to hump to get on this goddamn list, you know?

01:33:39.68
Beth McDonough
Yes.

01:33:39.95
Bill
And that's, that's how we met her. know, so I, we, we shamed her.

01:33:42.27
Mike
and see

01:33:43.14
Bill
And then, um, after we got to know her and we became curators and then she sent me a message on Instagram or email us or something. She's like, so, so whose leg do I have to hump to get on your podcast?

01:33:53.62
Beth McDonough
I love that.

01:33:53.96
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:54.06
Bill
ah

01:33:55.24
Mike
Yeah.

01:33:55.30
Bill
She's wonderful. She's a great, she's a good shit.

01:33:56.58
Mike
yeah

01:33:57.18
Bill
And we've had her on twice now. And um like I said, we do a lot next weekend. We're having, or next week, we're having one of the other curators, Megan on with us. So um it's a, it's a great group of people.

01:34:07.49
Bill
I think it would fit very well. No, first all, I know it would fit very well with what you're doing.

01:34:09.52
Mike
he yeah

01:34:12.36
Bill
And it's all, it's free promotion, quite honestly. um You know, so check it out. And if you want me to to reach out to her, I'd be more happy to. Okay.

01:34:19.92
Beth McDonough
Yes, please. And I am, um I'm honored and humbled by the offers.

01:34:25.29
Bill
Yeah, you know, like, no, yeah, it's, yeah, not a problem.

01:34:25.16
Beth McDonough
So yes, please. Thank you very much. I really, truly appreciate that.

01:34:30.04
Bill
Like I said, it's, a it's yeah, it's it is.

01:34:30.31
Mike
It's what we do. One drunk helping another.

01:34:33.03
Beth McDonough
Hey.

01:34:33.32
Bill
Yeah, yeah, it and you know what?

01:34:34.24
Mike
he

01:34:35.55
Bill
I mean, it it it all helps us. I mean, that it it helps the the entire group. You know, one one little effort like that or one little gesture, I mean, helps all of us. And um like I said, it's just, it's it's um something that we enjoy doing, you know, seeing people, um you know, have something like that and and, you know, obviously go through it.

01:34:52.57
Bill
And going forward, too, if there's ever anything that, I mean, we're connected now on on Instagram also, I believe. I know I'm following you. But if there's anything that we could ever do to, you know, obviously help promote or anything that you do, and definitely let us know it's ah we you know. We don't mind doing it.

01:35:08.20
Bill
um So any.

01:35:08.98
Beth McDonough
And vice versa, let me tell you that. And after we hang up, I'll follow you guys on everything, but vice versa.

01:35:11.32
Bill
Okay, perfect.

01:35:14.57
Beth McDonough
If there's anything, you know, i can do, i'm I'm happy to step up.

01:35:15.77
Mike
Hmm.

01:35:19.53
Bill
Okay, perfect. So anything else that you that you want to share with people? Anything, i don't want to say that you'd missed, but anything else that you either want to share with people or leave with people be before we wrap up?

01:35:30.91
Beth McDonough
um but You know, i do want to just kind of remind people that, of course, we're coming out of Sober October.

01:35:37.42
Bill
Mm-hmm.

01:35:37.49
Beth McDonough
heading into no Vember, you know, I don't think there's a, a, a slogan or a title for December, but of course then there's dry January.

01:35:40.61
Bill
ha

01:35:41.26
Mike
oh

01:35:47.74
Beth McDonough
Um, you know, so I just really and challenge people.

01:35:51.51
Bill
yeah.

01:35:51.60
Beth McDonough
Like if you want to give abstinence and sobriety a shot, now's a good time. And I think the world is just so open to messy stories now, much more now than it was even 10 years ago.

01:36:03.80
Beth McDonough
Right. Cause everybody's got mess in their lives.

01:36:04.64
Bill
oh god yeah

01:36:04.67
Mike
Mm-hmm. Right.

01:36:06.91
Beth McDonough
Um, you know, that now is is a great time to consider giving it a shot.

01:36:12.84
Bill
Right. Yeah, absolutely.

01:36:14.84
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:36:14.93
Bill
Well, cool. Well, um I mean, honestly, Beth, I mean, I can't, I can't tell you how much, much fun this was and enjoyable it was. And um it was, I don't know, it was a lot of fun. We really, really appreciate you coming on.

01:36:25.07
Bill
But ah Mike has a, Mike has a fun way of leading us out.

01:36:28.28
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:36:28.44
Bill
So don't, don't go anywhere yet. We're going to talk, obviously, before we wrap up, we're still going to talk, but, but Mike, Mike, show us, show us out of here.

01:36:35.75
Mike
All right. Well, thank you everyone for listening to yet another episode of Sober Not Mature. Thank you, Beth, for coming on and sharing your story with us and spending some time with those couple of old assholes.

01:36:47.39
Beth McDonough
Ha ha!

01:36:47.56
Mike
And now, as always, be kind to each other. be good to each other. go out and do something nice for somebody else this week and don't tell anybody you did it now.

01:36:58.41
Mike
From the bottom of my heart until the depths of my soul. From the beginning of time until the ends of the earth. Always and eternally.

01:37:09.17
Mike
Fuck you. and now it's time, kids. It is that time. It's time for you to fuck off. Then keep fucking off. Keep fucking off until you get to a gate with a sign on it saying, you cannot fuck off past here.

01:37:23.66
Mike
Climb over that gate. Dream the impossible dream. And keep fucking off forever.

01:37:31.35
Beth McDonough
I just love that.

01:37:32.97
Bill
So, so, so, so,

01:37:33.02
Beth McDonough
I have a coffee cup here and on it, it says fucker, fucker coffee.

01:37:41.09
Bill
Yeah, so speaking of family and people who care about us, are our sister gave us the the last longer part about the fuck off and over the fence and gate and and all that gate and all that stuff. And then another friend of ours gave us the initial part.

01:37:52.90
Bill
So, um yeah, we we started, what was it? It was the, I think the the, literally like episode three or four. We were like, you know, trying to figure out a way to, you know, to to sign off on the podcast.

01:37:59.94
Mike
Mm-hmm.

01:38:04.50
Bill
And it was funny. We were thinking of Anchorman, obviously, you know, fuck you, San Diego. Because Mike's like, he goes, he goes, all I can think about is, you know, telling people to fuck off.

01:38:09.26
Beth McDonough
ah

01:38:11.91
Bill
So that's what we used to do is just at the end, just tell people to fuck off at the end. And then, yeah, these people gave me to see these other things. So, yeah, we've got this whole... Like the another ah good friend of ours so we had on as a guest, um she's a musician and also like ah like a mixer with all this stuff.

01:38:23.29
Mike
he

01:38:27.16
Bill
So at the end of our episode, we've got this whole musical mix of Mike doing that. um they They grabbed it off of one of our recordings and they they did this whole so fuck off mix for us. It's fucking wonderful.

01:38:41.91
Beth McDonough
Oh my God, that would be hilarious. Just hilarious.

01:38:44.02
Bill
Yeah.

01:38:44.97
Beth McDonough
And Mike, let's be honest. You've got the right pipes for that. You can tell anybody to fuck off.

01:38:48.66
Mike
Right.

01:38:48.91
Bill
Yeah.

01:38:50.21
Mike
yeah

01:38:51.50
Bill
Yeah, and they'd say thank you too.

01:38:52.88
Mike
And I often do.

01:38:54.62
Beth McDonough
Ah, good for you. it feels good, doesn't it?

01:38:57.09
Bill
and it ah It always does. So again, Beth, um don't hang up, hang it around because we'll chat for a minute once we once we stop the recording. But Mike, I love you, brother. All right, Beth, thank you again.

01:39:05.25
Mike
I love you too.

01:39:07.68
Bill
And obviously everyone else, we will talk soon. So goodbye.

01:39:12.03
Mike
by

01:39:13.13
Beth McDonough
Bye-bye. ah