Episode 07: The State Rests

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Before we begin, please be
advised that this episode

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contains graphic descriptions of
violence as presented during the

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trial. Please take care while
listening. It's Saturday,

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January 18, 2025 day six of the
trial. By now, we were no longer

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the fresh, wide eyed jurors who
had entered the courtroom on day

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one. The gravity of this case
had settled in, and with each

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passing day, the weight of our
role grew heavier. We had

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listened to hours of testimony,
examined evidence, and watched

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the state methodically build
their case against Jason Chen.

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We'd seen Jasmine's family take
the stand. Heard the pain in

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their voices as they recounted
the frantic hours they spent

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searching for her. We had
listened to expert witnesses

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break down crime scene details,
some with precise conclusions,

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others with more uncertainty. We
had watched da Cody WAMP and her

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team present their evidence with
confidence, reinforcing over and

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over again that this was a
premeditated act, not a crime of

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passion, not an accident, but a
murder, the days of feeling like

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outsiders in the courtroom were
over at this point. We weren't

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just observing the trial. We
were part of it. This didn't

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feel new anymore. We were here
to finish what we started, and

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apparently so was the state i

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This is sequestered a juror's
perspective on the murder trial

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for Jasmine. Pace, I'm Sarah,
juror number 11 each episode,

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I'll take you inside the
courtroom, behind the scenes,

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and into the weighty moments of
this trial as we honor Jasmine's

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life and navigate the
complexities of seeking justice.

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Let's begin.

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This is episode seven, the state
rests. You.

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Okay. As the courtroom took
their seats, Judge Patterson

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turned to the prosecution and
asked if they had any more

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witnesses. Da Cody WAMP stood
and to our surprise, simply

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said, the state rests their case
just like that, the prosecution

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was done. A brief explanation
followed from the bench. Now it

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was the defense's turn, but
before we even had a chance to

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absorb the shift, we were asked
to exit the courtroom. The judge

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and attorneys needed to cover a
few motions before the defense

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could begin, we returned to our
coffee, card games and books in

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the jury room. Meanwhile, in the
courtroom, the defense did

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something pretty standard in
criminal trials. They filed

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what's called a Motion for
Judgment of acquittal. This is a

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formal request for the judge to
dismiss some or all of the

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charges, arguing that the
prosecution didn't present

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enough evidence for a reasonable
jury to convict. It's a way of

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saying, even if you take
everything the state just

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presented at face value, it's
still not enough to legally

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support these charges. Now this
motion is rarely granted in high

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profile cases like this,
especially in a murder trial,

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but it's a critical procedural
step because it preserves the

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defense's ability to appeal
later on, if needed. And in this

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case, the defense also made a
separate request for the judge

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to allow the jury to consider
what's called lesser included

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offenses. Lesser included
offenses are exactly what they

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sound like. They're charges that
are still illegal, but they're

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considered less severe versions
of the primary charge. In this

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case, the primary charge was
first degree murder, which

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requires proving premeditation,
meaning the killing was planned.

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The defense asked the court to
also instruct the jury on lesser

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charges like second degree
murder, which doesn't require

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premeditation, or voluntary
manslaughter, which could apply

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if the killing happened in the
heat of the moment. This kind of

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legal maneuvering is common, but
it's also strategic. It gives

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the jury more options. So
instead of choosing between

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convicting on the most serious
charge or letting the defendant

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go free, they could land
somewhere in the middle. It. One

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of those moments where you could
feel both sides preparing for

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the end game. The defense
protecting their client from the

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harshest sentence possible, and
the state holding firm that this

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was a premeditated, intentional
murder. The defense had one more

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move up their sleeve. Mr. Weiss
renewed a motion he'd already

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tried once before, he asked the
judge to allow a forensic

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psychologist named Dr Douglas
Lewis to testify for the

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defense. Now this wasn't just a
random request, because earlier

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in the trial, the state's expert
medical examiner, Dr Steven

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Cogswell, actually said that the
best kind of expert to speak to

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Jason Chen's state of mind would
be a forensic psychologist.

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That's exactly who Dr Lewis was,
and the defense wanted to bring

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him in to testify about Jason's
ability or inability to form

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premeditation. This is
important, because premeditation

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is what separates first degree
murder from the other lesser

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charges I mentioned. If Jason
didn't have the mental capacity

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to form premeditation, the jury
could consider a lesser offense

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like second degree murder or
even manslaughter for a second

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time, Judge Patterson denied the
request, and the reasoning was

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layered. First, Judge Patterson
said Dr Lewis's opinions were

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too speculative, meaning they
didn't meet the legal standard

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of certainty needed for expert
testimony. Basically, his

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opinion didn't cross that line
from this could be possible to

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this is what happened to a
reasonable degree of

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psychological certainty, also,
because the defense had waited

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until after the trial started to
formally request Dr Lewis's

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testimony. Judge Patterson ruled
it would be unfair to the state

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to allow it at this point in the
trial. So the motion was denied

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again. The defense took a break
here to organize their

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witnesses, and about 30 minutes
later, we entered the courtroom

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and took our seats in the jury
box. The defense calls their

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first witness to the stand,
Courtney paglino Brewer,

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Courtney was the neighbor who
lived in apartment 110 the unit

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directly below Jason Chen's
apartment. Let's listen in to

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defense attorney Weiss asking
Courtney about the night Jasmine

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pace went missing on the night

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of November 22 early hours from
November the 23rd in the early

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hours from November the 23rd Was
there an incident that you

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forecalled? Uh,

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yes, I was woken up in the
middle of the night by a loud

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screen.

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Can you kind of take us and you
can go slowly through the next

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step woke you up, and then
everything that you've heard

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from that point until you can
hear

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there was a screen that started
me out of my sleep. I checked my

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phone to see the time, because I
was going to call 911, it was

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around 2am there was a voice
that was screaming words, the

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words I couldn't understand
fully. Was

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it a male voice?

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And then assuming that the
apartment above mine is laid out

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the same as mine, there sounded
like chasing a lot of footsteps

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going across towards the front
door,

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one person's footsteps. It
sounded

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like multiple, we said, towards
the front door. Was towards the

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front door, of course,

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towards the front office. I was
in the bedroom and I heard it.

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You had said that you heard a
scream. Can you describe the

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story?

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Distressed? Not quite, angry,
emphatic.

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What did you say you could hear
arguing, an argument or a fight?

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I

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thought that maybe I had heard
the tail end of the fight. I

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only ever heard one

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voice after hearing the scream
and the arguments and the

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footsteps, what did you do? I

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lay there awake for a minute
because I couldn't go back to

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sleep. My husband had woken up,
but he thought the noise came

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from outside, and he went back
to sleep rather easily. I could

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hear the sounds of TV, and then
when I moved from the bedroom to

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my living room, there were
sounds of someone walking across

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the apartment and the sound of
the washer and the garbage.

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You said you could hear the
arguing.

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I only heard her voice, so I
just assumed. It was an

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argument.

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Did you hear any crying?

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The voice that came after the
screaming that was it kind of

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sounded like when you're already
upset, but you're trying to

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prove a point and you're crying
at the same time. So it was just

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very kind of garbled. I would
say that there was crying behind

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it.

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Did you call that one? I did
not,

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because by the time I settled
down from being abruptly woken

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up and thought that I heard
footsteps to lacrosse and a door

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slam. I thought that it had just
a normal apartment argument, and

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everything kind of calmed down.

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Did you ever contact
authorities? I did. I want

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to say the 20/27 or the 28th Why
do you contact because I've seen

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the missing persons poster for
Jasmine on Facebook, and

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connected the dots of her last
immobilization being the floor

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above mine. And so I submitted a
tip to Crime Stoppers, saying

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what I heard, and

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I just thought was the right
thing to do, and is what you

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told Crime Stoppers, then the
same thing they should testify

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to a part this morning, yes, sir

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Courtney testified that in the
early hours of November 23 the

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night Jasmine was murdered, she
was jolted awake by a loud,

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panicked scream. It startled her
so much, she immediately grabbed

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her phone to check the time,
thinking she might need to call

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911, according to her, it was
2:11am, it was the voice that

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stuck with her. The Scream she
heard came from a woman, and

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after that initial burst of
terror, Courtney could hear her

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trying to talk through sobs like
she was crying and arguing at

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the same time, the words were
garbled, and Courtney couldn't

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make out exactly what was being
said. Then came what she

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described as chasing the sounds
of two people running from the

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floor directly above her toward
the front door of the apartment,

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followed by the distinct sound
of the front door slamming. 20

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minutes later, Courtney heard
the TV in the bedroom turn on

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loudly, and about 30 minutes
after that, she hears the

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garbage disposal turn on, and
then the washing machine, which

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she described, were both running
at the same time. It wasn't

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until days later, when Courtney
saw Jasmine's missing person

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flyer on Facebook that she
realized what she had actually

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heard. According to the flyer,
Jasmine's last known location

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was at 110 Tremont street
apartment 210 the apartment

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directly above hers. That's when
Courtney knew she had to say

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something. She immediately
submitted a tip to Crime

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Stoppers, sharing everything she
remembered from that night. As I

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sat there listening to Courtney,
my mind couldn't stop racing

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with questions, questions, of
course, that no one could fully

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answer was the TV turned up to
cover the sound of something no

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one was supposed to hear. What
was Jason washing in the middle

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of the night? Sheets, clothes,
something worse, and the garbage

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disposal, what did he put down
there? Was it something small,

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or was it evidence of something
that could never be recovered?

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None of us knew for sure, but
what haunted me the most was the

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realization that Jason wasn't
just up late tidying his

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apartment. He wasn't cleaning
the house. He was covering up a

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crime scene right above
Courtney's head. The next

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witness was Jasmine's biological
father, Travis pace. Something

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to be aware of is that Travis
and Jasmine's mom now Katrina

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bean, are divorced with Mr.
Weiss's leading Travis took us

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through the night. Jasmine's
family realized she was missing

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November 26 into the early
morning hours of the 27th on the

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26th Travis was out to dinner
with friends celebrating

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Thanksgiving when his daughter,
Gabby called in a panic, Jasmine

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wasn't answering her phone and
no one knew where she was.

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Travis and his girlfriend drove
to the last location. Jasmine's

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phone had pinged a building near
Tremont street. When they got

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there, they found Gabby and some
of Jasmine's friends all trying

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to figure out how to get inside.
They managed to get into the

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building through a back door,
and started knocking loudly on

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every door they could. They were
desperate to make noise, to wake

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people up and find someone who
had seen Jasmine, and that's

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when they learned about Jason
Chen. It a neighbor told them

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Jason lived on the second floor
and that Jasmine had been there

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recently. That's all they needed
to hear. Travis went straight to

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Jason's apartment and knocked.
There was no answer. The door

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was locked, but Travis managed
to force the handle open. What

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he found inside made his stomach
drop. The apartment was empty,

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but it was clear someone had
left in a hurry. The bed was

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unmade, and there were female
items in the bathroom. When

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Travis opened a desk drawer,
there was Jasmine's driver's

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license and credit cards just
sitting there in a neat little

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stack. That's the moment he knew
something was terribly wrong.

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What did you do in the

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bedroom? Whooped. There were no
persons in the bedroom. So now I

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turned around with a different
goal, of not looking for a

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person, but to look for evidence
of Jasmine. What did he do to

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look for evidence of Jasmine?
The doors were the cabinets were

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00:16:02,340 --> 00:16:05,460
open. Things were on the
surface, and it appeared there

226
00:16:05,460 --> 00:16:10,800
were female products in the
bathroom and walking forward and

227
00:16:10,980 --> 00:16:17,640
open the drawer before there was
a computer desk in the top left

228
00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:21,920
of the apartment, if you're
facing into the hallway. So if

229
00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:23,900
you're entering through the
door, is it to the right, to the

230
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:30,620
right, immediately, there's a
computer desk. Open the drawer.

231
00:16:31,100 --> 00:16:35,180
Jasmine's driver's license was
right there on the top, stacked

232
00:16:35,180 --> 00:16:40,340
up in a pile, slitted her credit
cards, her bank cards, and a

233
00:16:40,340 --> 00:16:46,000
sack of all of Jasmine's cards
and identifications. What did he

234
00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:50,380
do? I took him out of the
drawer, and I spread them apart

235
00:16:50,380 --> 00:16:56,560
widely, distinctly from left to
right. They without search

236
00:16:56,560 --> 00:17:00,220
warrant. They could not open a
drawer and look for those

237
00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:04,920
themselves. And I tell me
telling them that they were

238
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:10,080
there. It was hearsay, but if I
lay it across the countertop and

239
00:17:10,080 --> 00:17:13,740
they flashed their light on it
and recorded it, they can show

240
00:17:13,740 --> 00:17:19,800
that to missing persons, there's
something moving it forward. You

241
00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:25,940
do something to help the police
investigate. Yes, what did you

242
00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:28,580
do after you laid out the cards
called 911 I

243
00:17:29,840 --> 00:17:35,300
actually as soon as I opened the
door and I saw the cards, I

244
00:17:35,300 --> 00:17:41,380
called 911 and told them to call
911 this is absolutely the

245
00:17:41,380 --> 00:17:42,820
apartment that Jasmine was in.

246
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:48,220
Travis immediately stepped out
of the apartment and called 911

247
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:53,740
at this point, Mr. Weiss asked
Travis pace if he would

248
00:17:53,740 --> 00:17:58,360
recognize himself on a 911
recording. The State objected

249
00:17:58,360 --> 00:18:03,240
wildly, and the jury was asked
to leave the courtroom. While we

250
00:18:03,240 --> 00:18:07,500
were out, they played the 911
tape for Travis pace, but judge

251
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:10,980
Patterson ultimately overruled
the option to play it in court,

252
00:18:11,160 --> 00:18:15,360
so we never heard it. All we
know is that Travis told the 911

253
00:18:15,780 --> 00:18:19,140
operator exactly where they were
and that Jasmine had been

254
00:18:19,140 --> 00:18:23,300
missing since Wednesday. Here is
Travis pace talking about his

255
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,460
interaction with the officers on
scene.

256
00:18:27,200 --> 00:18:31,760
Take a report and submit a
report to missing persons. I

257
00:18:31,760 --> 00:18:36,620
said, you get them on the scene.
They're on standby. They're not

258
00:18:36,620 --> 00:18:40,660
reporting to the scene. Call
them your detective or your

259
00:18:40,660 --> 00:18:44,560
sergeant, and put pressure on
their sergeant to make their

260
00:18:44,560 --> 00:18:52,600
sergeant force homicide, force
homicide, to to to show up. He

261
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:57,400
said the best I can do would be
to tell my sergeant that I think

262
00:18:57,400 --> 00:19:00,480
it's important to put pressure
on their sergeant and see what

263
00:19:00,480 --> 00:19:04,560
happens. It's the best I can do
for you. Decide you have to

264
00:19:05,820 --> 00:19:08,580
go back into the apartment.

265
00:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,440
Yes, we need to go back to
immediately,

266
00:19:16,020 --> 00:19:21,500
continue to look for more
things, anything that would lead

267
00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:27,740
to finding Jasmine. How long
were you any concern?

268
00:19:31,100 --> 00:19:34,700
As soon as the officers left,
Travis went back into Jason

269
00:19:34,700 --> 00:19:39,140
Chen's apartment. He spent the
next hour searching, looking for

270
00:19:39,140 --> 00:19:44,740
any clue that might lead him to
Jasmine sitting in that jury

271
00:19:44,740 --> 00:19:48,160
box. What stood out to me was
how clear it was that Travis

272
00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:51,820
wasn't thinking about evidence
chain of custody or crime scene

273
00:19:51,820 --> 00:19:55,840
protocols that night, he was
thinking like a dad desperate to

274
00:19:55,840 --> 00:20:00,360
find his daughter and doing
anything he could. He. I

275
00:20:00,360 --> 00:20:03,180
couldn't quite figure out the
defense's angle in calling

276
00:20:03,180 --> 00:20:07,800
Travis to the stand. So far,
everything he testified to only

277
00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:12,300
seemed to strengthen the case
against Jason Chen. Defense

278
00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:16,860
Attorney Weiss takes a sharp
turn after this. He focuses on

279
00:20:16,860 --> 00:20:20,640
the small discrepancies between
Travis paces and Katrina beans

280
00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:23,780
testimony on the night they all
went to the tree man apartments

281
00:20:23,780 --> 00:20:27,620
looking for Jasmine. I'm
assuming this was to put doubt

282
00:20:27,620 --> 00:20:31,040
in our minds that their stories
didn't totally line up, but it

283
00:20:31,040 --> 00:20:35,120
seemed like such a small detail.
If you remember, on day one of

284
00:20:35,120 --> 00:20:37,940
the trial, Katrina bean
testified that they used a

285
00:20:37,940 --> 00:20:41,920
credit card to break into Jason
Chen's apartment. I remember

286
00:20:41,920 --> 00:20:45,040
thinking, Did it really matter
how they got in? At this point,

287
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:49,420
both had already admitted to
breaking in. When asked about

288
00:20:49,420 --> 00:20:53,380
the discrepancy, Travis remained
calm and his response was

289
00:20:53,380 --> 00:20:57,460
simple. We remember it
differently. You can hear their

290
00:20:57,460 --> 00:20:58,420
exchange here.

291
00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:04,140
You were there with Katrina pace
when you were interviewed by

292
00:21:04,980 --> 00:21:10,560
Detective Crawford. And I would
say you were here in this

293
00:21:10,560 --> 00:21:14,040
courtroom in February of last
year, and you heard Katrina pace

294
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:21,380
testified. And then this past
Monday, you were in this room

295
00:21:21,380 --> 00:21:26,840
and you saw Katrina pace testify
on that stand, right, awesome,

296
00:21:27,620 --> 00:21:28,760
or any of those things,

297
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:30,860
we remember it

298
00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:33,619
differently. It's true.

299
00:21:36,500 --> 00:21:39,260
Who am I to say what the truth
is? Did

300
00:21:39,440 --> 00:21:42,820
a residence of the apartment
building opened the door for

301
00:21:42,820 --> 00:21:50,020
you. I support you to come in
the building. Did Katrina pace

302
00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:56,440
or others get into Jason's for
credit cards? I'm not who's the

303
00:21:56,440 --> 00:22:00,540
first person to get into the
war. Did you ever see Katrina

304
00:22:00,540 --> 00:22:04,740
face or another person, use the
credit card again. You said

305
00:22:04,740 --> 00:22:10,140
earlier It'd be impossible to
use a red card. You heard

306
00:22:10,140 --> 00:22:14,880
Katrina testify that she went
back in department multiple

307
00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:20,040
times after that one. I heard
that where you worked for those

308
00:22:20,220 --> 00:22:26,300
times. You know, she did an
apartment during those times.

309
00:22:26,300 --> 00:22:29,780
Does your ex wife pace? Does she
have a reputation for being on a

310
00:22:29,780 --> 00:22:30,020
scope

311
00:22:33,500 --> 00:22:36,920
the state now has their chance
to cross examine Travis pace,

312
00:22:37,340 --> 00:22:38,900
and it feels like a showdown.

313
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:42,340
Did you receive a subpoena to
testify

314
00:22:42,340 --> 00:22:45,700
in this trial I did by who?

315
00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:51,460
Did you ever receive a subpoena
from your defense attorney? Were

316
00:22:51,460 --> 00:22:54,340
you ever notified by the defense
that they were going to call you

317
00:22:54,340 --> 00:22:58,240
as a witness today? Did they
tell you Monday? Did they tell

318
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:01,800
you Tuesday? Did they tell you
Wednesday, Thursday, Friday,

319
00:23:02,280 --> 00:23:04,920
they say this morning, you
didn't know you were being

320
00:23:04,920 --> 00:23:07,260
called as a witness until you
were sitting right there. You

321
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:11,700
said your name, is that? Right?
Yes. How long have you and

322
00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:12,300
Katrina been

323
00:23:12,299 --> 00:23:15,719
divorced? 20 years. Is it fair

324
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:21,320
to say that y'all don't have a
great relationship? Is it fair

325
00:23:21,320 --> 00:23:24,560
to say that this whole
experience is important? You're

326
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:28,760
already tough relationship,
sure. Would you say that you're

327
00:23:28,760 --> 00:23:32,660
the one that initially saw
Jasmine's photo ID, her driver's

328
00:23:32,660 --> 00:23:36,740
license and her credit cards in
Mr. 10 department? Were they in

329
00:23:36,740 --> 00:23:39,680
the desk drawer, and you took
them out and put them on the

330
00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:43,480
desk? Is that correct? And you
were knocking on doors because

331
00:23:43,480 --> 00:23:47,140
you couldn't find your daughter,
did you? And all you were trying

332
00:23:47,140 --> 00:23:50,500
to do was find your daughter.
You

333
00:23:50,500 --> 00:23:58,300
were desperate. You were
desperate. You thought she might

334
00:23:58,300 --> 00:24:00,820
be in Jason's apartment, didn't
you? I don't

335
00:24:00,820 --> 00:24:01,540
know that part

336
00:24:02,619 --> 00:24:06,179
would you have done anything to
get in that apartment because

337
00:24:06,179 --> 00:24:08,939
you had reason to bleed based on
what the neighbors told you,

338
00:24:08,939 --> 00:24:13,799
that she could have been in
danger? Yeah, you have a

339
00:24:13,799 --> 00:24:16,919
military background. Is that
correct, sir? Is that one reason

340
00:24:16,919 --> 00:24:21,139
you're proficient in firearms?
It is, Did you clean anything up

341
00:24:21,139 --> 00:24:24,619
in Mr. Chin's apartment? No. Did
you plant any evidence in Mr.

342
00:24:24,619 --> 00:24:26,659
Chin's apartment, other than

343
00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:30,740
moving her credit cards,
driver's license? You didn't

344
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:31,760
take anything

345
00:24:31,820 --> 00:24:36,200
in there and leave it. Did you
have any idea at the time what

346
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:39,380
did happen to your daughter? Did
you have any idea that she had

347
00:24:39,380 --> 00:24:42,460
been stabbed to death at that
time, definitely not. She hadn't

348
00:24:42,460 --> 00:24:46,360
been located, had she but did
you know that he might be

349
00:24:46,360 --> 00:24:48,280
involved? Yes,

350
00:24:48,520 --> 00:24:55,360
well certainly, because he lied
about speaking with her, about

351
00:24:55,360 --> 00:24:56,980
the duration, about the timing,

352
00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:01,320
and you are aware that he lied
so. Are you aware how

353
00:25:04,740 --> 00:25:08,640
that's your girlfriend? You're
participating with the parents

354
00:25:08,640 --> 00:25:13,680
to look for her. What can I do?
I'm equally concerned that she's

355
00:25:13,680 --> 00:25:18,420
missing. How can we find her
together? The fact that that

356
00:25:18,420 --> 00:25:23,420
wasn't happening was the biggest
the media flag. He's my number

357
00:25:23,420 --> 00:25:24,260
one suspect.

358
00:25:25,040 --> 00:25:27,860
Well, did he tell you that he
did it? But it's because she

359
00:25:27,860 --> 00:25:32,300
came after the wine glasses? No,
he lied. When did he say he's

360
00:25:32,300 --> 00:25:36,200
seen her last? He lied about
that. Do you recall when he said

361
00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:37,280
he'd seen her last?

362
00:25:38,300 --> 00:25:41,440
I don't remember exactly what he
said. I just know that it wasn't

363
00:25:42,040 --> 00:25:45,280
what the phone record showed. It
was different than what we had

364
00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:45,640
proof of.

365
00:25:45,640 --> 00:25:49,300
He was concerned about it was he
No

366
00:25:49,840 --> 00:25:51,340
at all. Was he?

367
00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:57,700
After that frantic night of
searching, Travis and Jasmine's

368
00:25:57,700 --> 00:26:02,700
family were left with fear and
unanswered questions. The next

369
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:06,000
clue didn't come from the
apartment, it came from

370
00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:11,040
Jasmine's own Facebook account.
At some point, on Saturday,

371
00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:16,320
November 26 a photo was posted
to her Facebook page. It was a

372
00:26:16,320 --> 00:26:19,320
picture of jasmine, but
immediately her family and

373
00:26:19,320 --> 00:26:21,080
friends knew something was
wrong.

374
00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:27,920
Were you monitoring Facebook
during this time period? We were

375
00:26:28,280 --> 00:26:34,100
Do you recall a time that week
when a photo was posted from

376
00:26:34,100 --> 00:26:35,720
your daughter's Facebook
account?

377
00:26:36,800 --> 00:26:41,440
It was literally like the match
that lit this whole thing on

378
00:26:41,440 --> 00:26:49,240
fire because it was not a modest
photograph posted on Facebook.

379
00:26:49,240 --> 00:26:54,100
And anybody that knew Jasmine
knew she would not have posted

380
00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:58,600
that, and it was a different
timeline of her photo, so it

381
00:26:58,600 --> 00:27:02,880
wasn't even recent either. There
was so many problems with it

382
00:27:02,940 --> 00:27:07,200
that it drew immediate red flags
to everybody in the family and

383
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,000
friends, people that were

384
00:27:10,080 --> 00:27:12,780
what day was that posted? I

385
00:27:12,780 --> 00:27:15,180
believe that was the same
Saturday, the 26th

386
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:20,100
the 26th and as you know, it
wasn't a recent

387
00:27:21,119 --> 00:27:22,999
photo. She has tattoos,

388
00:27:23,240 --> 00:27:29,780
and we can know basically what
and year it is on which tattoos

389
00:27:29,780 --> 00:27:30,380
she has.

390
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,760
Did she have tattoos in the
photo she allegedly posted from

391
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:37,580
her Facebook the week of
Thanksgiving,

392
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,980
they were missing, which means
that it most definitely was an

393
00:27:42,160 --> 00:27:42,880
earlier photograph.

394
00:27:46,540 --> 00:27:49,720
After some back and forth with
the judge, the Facebook photo

395
00:27:49,720 --> 00:27:52,840
they're talking about was
finally displayed on the screen

396
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:57,040
the courtroom was now presented
with an image of Jasmine

397
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,980
standing in front of a mirror
taking a photo of herself with

398
00:27:59,980 --> 00:28:05,640
her phone. She was wearing black
lace lingerie, and as her father

399
00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:09,060
later described, it was not a
photo Jasmine would have ever

400
00:28:09,060 --> 00:28:13,800
chosen to share publicly. Below
the image was a caption that

401
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:18,300
read, enjoying Thanksgiving with
my baby. But Jasmine hadn't been

402
00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,860
with anyone for Thanksgiving,
and the words didn't sound like

403
00:28:21,860 --> 00:28:27,440
her at all. Then came the most
chilling realization, this

404
00:28:27,440 --> 00:28:31,880
wasn't even a recent photo of
Jasmine. Her arms and body were

405
00:28:31,880 --> 00:28:35,780
missing the tattoos her family
and friends knew well, marks

406
00:28:35,780 --> 00:28:38,840
that should have been there if
this was a recent photo of her,

407
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:46,600
Jasmine hadn't posted this.
Jason had it felt fake, forced,

408
00:28:47,080 --> 00:28:50,260
as if someone was trying to make
it look like she was alive and

409
00:28:50,260 --> 00:28:56,140
well when her family already
knew she wasn't. As Travis put

410
00:28:56,140 --> 00:29:00,960
it, this was the match that lit
this whole thing on fire. In

411
00:29:00,960 --> 00:29:03,960
other words, this was the moment
when everything shifted for the

412
00:29:03,960 --> 00:29:08,100
family. Jasmine wasn't just
missing someone. Was actively

413
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:12,420
manipulating the narrative,
rewriting her story in real

414
00:29:12,420 --> 00:29:13,020
time. Is

415
00:29:15,360 --> 00:29:16,380
this a photo that I just

416
00:29:17,940 --> 00:29:19,620
showed you? Yes. It is that your
daughter.

417
00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:24,380
I She was

418
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,780
does she have tattoos on her
arm, on her shoulder in that

419
00:29:29,780 --> 00:29:34,820
photo? Mr. Pace, does that say
enjoying Thanksgiving with my

420
00:29:34,820 --> 00:29:43,360
baby? It does. And you now know
when that was posted from

421
00:29:43,360 --> 00:29:51,460
Facebook, she was dead, is that
right? And you now know

422
00:29:53,320 --> 00:30:01,620
that this point in time he had
her phone, didn't he? It.

423
00:30:11,820 --> 00:30:15,480
You know, during sequestration,
I had a lot of time to think,

424
00:30:15,900 --> 00:30:19,020
and honestly, I kept wishing I
had a speaker so that I could

425
00:30:19,020 --> 00:30:22,700
just listen to a great book.
That's why I love audiobooks.

426
00:30:22,940 --> 00:30:26,720
Whether I'm driving, walking the
dogs or traveling, I can just

427
00:30:26,720 --> 00:30:30,740
press play and get lost in an
amazing story anytime and

428
00:30:30,740 --> 00:30:35,300
anywhere. One of my all time
favorites is New York by Edward

429
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:40,100
Rutherford. This epic historical
novel spans over 400 years,

430
00:30:40,160 --> 00:30:42,940
following generations of
families through the city's most

431
00:30:42,940 --> 00:30:46,780
pivotal moments, from its Dutch
settlement days and all the way

432
00:30:46,780 --> 00:30:52,540
to 911 it was one of the first
audio books I had ever listened

433
00:30:52,540 --> 00:30:56,140
to. It felt like the narrator
was reading the story, just for

434
00:30:56,140 --> 00:31:01,020
me, I was completely hooked.
Here's some good news. You can

435
00:31:01,020 --> 00:31:05,460
listen to New York or any other
book for free. Audible is giving

436
00:31:05,460 --> 00:31:09,000
sequestered listeners a free
audiobook with a 30 day trial.

437
00:31:09,480 --> 00:31:13,260
Just go to audible trial.com.
Forward slash sequestered.

438
00:31:14,340 --> 00:31:18,900
That's one free book yours to
keep forever. So find something

439
00:31:18,900 --> 00:31:23,240
you love and get listening. Go
to audible trial.com. Forward

440
00:31:23,240 --> 00:31:24,440
slash sequestered

441
00:31:38,540 --> 00:31:41,560
as we sat there listening to
Travis walk through how the

442
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:45,340
family pieced all of this
together, how they knew without

443
00:31:45,340 --> 00:31:49,420
a doubt that Jasmine would never
post something like that. It was

444
00:31:49,420 --> 00:31:52,840
one of the clearest windows we
got into who Jason Chen really

445
00:31:52,840 --> 00:31:57,880
was. This wasn't just about
hiding evidence. This was about

446
00:31:57,880 --> 00:32:02,760
control. Even after Jasmine was
gone, Jason was still trying to

447
00:32:02,760 --> 00:32:05,880
control the narrative and
manipulate how the world saw

448
00:32:05,880 --> 00:32:11,820
her. Once Travis finished his
testimony, Judge Patterson let

449
00:32:11,820 --> 00:32:15,480
the jury ask questions. This was
the part where we could write

450
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,960
down anything we still wanted to
know. The judge and attorneys

451
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,520
would review the questions, and
if they were appropriate, he

452
00:32:22,520 --> 00:32:25,100
would ask them directly to the
witness right there in open

453
00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:28,760
court. There was something
incredibly human about this part

454
00:32:28,760 --> 00:32:32,540
of the process. It wasn't
lawyers trying to make a point,

455
00:32:33,320 --> 00:32:38,840
it was us regular people, a jury
of peers, trying to understand

456
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,280
what really happened that night
and trying to make sense of the

457
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:45,820
choices Travis and the rest of
Jasmine's family made in those

458
00:32:45,820 --> 00:32:50,140
Desperate Hours, the first
question was simple, how well

459
00:32:50,140 --> 00:32:54,580
did Travis even know Jason? Did
he know they were dating? Had

460
00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:58,600
Jasmine ever mentioned him
directly? Travis admitted that

461
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:02,760
Jasmine had never brought Jason
up to him, but she had talked

462
00:33:02,760 --> 00:33:06,840
about him to other people she
trusted, and Travis knew they'd

463
00:33:06,840 --> 00:33:10,080
been close enough to take a trip
to Chicago together recently.

464
00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:15,120
How did you know Jason shim is
Jasmine's boy?

465
00:33:17,220 --> 00:33:22,820
I didn't necessarily know that
it was her boyfriend. I knew

466
00:33:22,820 --> 00:33:30,020
that they had been speaking. His
name had been spoken about, and

467
00:33:30,020 --> 00:33:34,880
that they knowingly went on a
trip to Chicago together, and

468
00:33:35,780 --> 00:33:42,940
that his name was relevant. We
knew they were at least somehow

469
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:49,360
close enough to take a trip to
Chicago. More than that, I

470
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:55,180
wasn't aware how much more they
were dating or not dating, at

471
00:33:55,180 --> 00:33:57,400
least enough to go to Chicago.

472
00:34:00,640 --> 00:34:03,900
Another juror wanted to
understand exactly how they got

473
00:34:03,900 --> 00:34:07,680
into Jason's apartment. Travis
explained that he forced the

474
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,760
handle, physically, breaking the
mechanism, to get the door open.

475
00:34:12,420 --> 00:34:15,660
Once inside, he unlocked it so
that they can come in and out

476
00:34:15,660 --> 00:34:20,960
freely. And then came my
question, the dumpster. Did

477
00:34:20,960 --> 00:34:24,740
anyone in your party check it
that night? And if so, what did

478
00:34:24,740 --> 00:34:25,520
they find? Did

479
00:34:28,459 --> 00:34:32,539
anyone in your party search the
dumpster area on the night of

480
00:34:32,539 --> 00:34:38,119
1126, 27 you call it handsome
particles of clothing or

481
00:34:38,119 --> 00:34:39,079
sanitary pad?

482
00:34:40,100 --> 00:34:48,760
Yes, we did. We we did on that
night and for the next I'm

483
00:34:48,760 --> 00:34:52,060
sorry to interrupt say you did
search the dumpster area, or you

484
00:34:52,060 --> 00:34:54,880
did see the clothing secretary,

485
00:34:55,660 --> 00:34:58,720
both. Okay, we did search him.
We did see both. You.

486
00:35:00,420 --> 00:35:04,980
Was Katrina pace ever inside the
apartment at the same time you

487
00:35:04,980 --> 00:35:05,220
were,

488
00:35:07,740 --> 00:35:09,420
we accepted if she was,

489
00:35:10,740 --> 00:35:13,980
were you present when any items
were taken from the apartment?

490
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,360
If so, what you recall being
collected? Were you present when

491
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:20,220
any items were taken from the
apartment?

492
00:35:21,540 --> 00:35:23,300
No, I was not present for that.

493
00:35:24,560 --> 00:35:26,120
Did you take anything before?

494
00:35:27,620 --> 00:35:37,580
No, I did not possibly, and I
really don't recall possibly we

495
00:35:37,580 --> 00:35:42,100
would have on the very next
entrance, right after the police

496
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:47,380
had left, and we kind of all
concluded that their help was

497
00:35:47,380 --> 00:35:53,620
going to be less than expedient,
and we may have actually grabbed

498
00:35:53,620 --> 00:35:59,140
all of her IDs and stuff at that
exact moment, but it's a blur.

499
00:35:59,140 --> 00:35:59,320
This

500
00:36:02,560 --> 00:36:06,480
wasn't a forensic team with
gloves and evidence bags. These

501
00:36:06,480 --> 00:36:10,500
were parents terrified and
exhausted looking for anything

502
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:15,240
that could be a clue. Another
question from the jury to Travis

503
00:36:15,240 --> 00:36:19,200
pace was if he smelled marijuana
in Jason Chen's apartment that

504
00:36:19,200 --> 00:36:23,420
night. Travis said that he
didn't smell anything, but he

505
00:36:23,420 --> 00:36:26,900
remembered a bong sitting on the
computer stand with a baggie

506
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:30,320
beside it, and even though
Travis wasn't sure that was

507
00:36:30,320 --> 00:36:33,440
relevant to Jasmine's
disappearance, he pointed it out

508
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:38,240
to the police. Anyway, finally,
we asked Travis what the bed

509
00:36:38,240 --> 00:36:42,640
looked like when he first walked
in. He said it was messy, unmade

510
00:36:42,880 --> 00:36:46,360
with pillows and blankets
rumpled and some clothing thrown

511
00:36:46,360 --> 00:36:50,380
on top. Nothing dramatic, but it
painted a picture of an

512
00:36:50,380 --> 00:36:57,100
apartment where something had
happened in a hurry. The next

513
00:36:57,100 --> 00:37:01,140
witness was Johnny Lawrence, a
private investigator and crime

514
00:37:01,140 --> 00:37:04,800
scene expert from right here in
Nashville, Tennessee. His

515
00:37:04,800 --> 00:37:08,280
specialty crime scene
reconstruction and blood stain

516
00:37:08,280 --> 00:37:13,440
analysis, his job was to examine
the evidence, document it,

517
00:37:13,500 --> 00:37:16,980
analyze it, and piece together
the order of events based on

518
00:37:16,980 --> 00:37:22,820
what the scene itself revealed.
A little side note here, Johnny

519
00:37:22,820 --> 00:37:27,140
Lawrence was kind of all over
the place. He was presented as

520
00:37:27,140 --> 00:37:31,640
the defense's expert witness,
but unlike the state's experts,

521
00:37:31,940 --> 00:37:35,780
his credibility wasn't
immediately accepted. The

522
00:37:35,780 --> 00:37:39,200
prosecution and defense argued
back and forth in front of us

523
00:37:39,260 --> 00:37:42,160
about whether Lawrence's
opinions should even be allowed

524
00:37:42,160 --> 00:37:46,360
as expert testimony. That's
because, under Tennessee law,

525
00:37:46,420 --> 00:37:50,200
for someone to testify as an
expert, their opinions have to

526
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:54,760
substantially assist the jury in
understanding the evidence. It

527
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:57,700
took at least 30 minutes for
Judge Patterson to decide

528
00:37:57,700 --> 00:38:01,560
whether he could even be entered
as an expert witness. At one

529
00:38:01,560 --> 00:38:04,620
point we were asked to leave the
room while they debated it.

530
00:38:05,640 --> 00:38:08,460
Here's a clip of Weiss arguing
for him to be entered.

531
00:38:12,960 --> 00:38:17,820
Their opinion is this, so that's
there is flexibility in there.

532
00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,860
I'm not asking for it absolutely
certain. I think the flexibility

533
00:38:21,860 --> 00:38:25,640
comes from to the reasonable
degree, but your opinion has to

534
00:38:25,640 --> 00:38:27,860
be something more speculation,
just

535
00:38:30,380 --> 00:38:38,360
so the doctor COVID Talk about
the position of the body when,

536
00:38:38,720 --> 00:38:43,420
when killed. That is something
that the pathetic sort of find

537
00:38:43,420 --> 00:38:49,120
out the doctor Coxwell client on
the crime scene in general, uh,

538
00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:53,680
while he did not testify that
Miss pace was shot for her

539
00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:56,920
handcuff because he's excluded
from that the state made those

540
00:38:57,520 --> 00:39:03,060
implications that she was mister
Lawrence can testify regarding

541
00:39:03,240 --> 00:39:06,420
the state of the body, when
family can testify regarding

542
00:39:07,260 --> 00:39:12,060
kind of the same things that
doctor Cox saw. Then there is

543
00:39:12,660 --> 00:39:17,340
investigator Crawford and CSI
team. One of the arguments is,

544
00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,540
this is the most blood that they
have ever seen. Our argument,

545
00:39:20,540 --> 00:39:23,420
our rebuttal is they're not
seeing just blood. What we're

546
00:39:23,420 --> 00:39:26,720
seeing is the cleaning materials
that we talked about then all

547
00:39:26,720 --> 00:39:29,480
these people that have
contaminated the sea. So yes,

548
00:39:29,540 --> 00:39:32,780
the report is probably right. I
have one on contamination, okay,

549
00:39:33,080 --> 00:39:35,480
but it's not just blood that
would have been trapped

550
00:39:35,660 --> 00:39:38,660
throughout the apartment. It
would be in the clean materials

551
00:39:38,660 --> 00:39:42,940
too. And he can opine on that as
well. Then one of the most

552
00:39:42,940 --> 00:39:45,460
serious things, and one of the
most important things that we

553
00:39:45,460 --> 00:39:49,540
need mister Lawrence to testify
about is how the technical is a

554
00:39:49,540 --> 00:39:52,060
part of the crime scene
investigation collected

555
00:39:52,060 --> 00:39:54,820
evidence, and more importantly,
and what's going to come out

556
00:39:54,880 --> 00:39:58,660
through mister Lawrence or
pieces of evidence. He said that

557
00:39:58,660 --> 00:40:03,600
one piece of evidence that. The
CPP still doesn't know that, so

558
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,680
it's important for me to be able
to introduce that through this

559
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:08,280
witness.

560
00:40:10,980 --> 00:40:14,040
When we returned to the
courtroom, Johnny Lawrence was

561
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:17,580
still on the stand. Judge
Patterson ruled that we would

562
00:40:17,580 --> 00:40:21,380
hear his testimony, but he made
it clear it was just one

563
00:40:21,380 --> 00:40:26,360
expert's opinion, not fact.
Lawrence was sworn in, and we

564
00:40:26,360 --> 00:40:31,460
were ready to hear what he had
to say. Unlike the state's

565
00:40:31,460 --> 00:40:35,420
experts, Lawrence wasn't
involved from the start. He was

566
00:40:35,420 --> 00:40:40,420
hired by the defense in early
December, 2022 weeks after the

567
00:40:40,420 --> 00:40:44,980
initial investigation, that
meant he wasn't present for

568
00:40:44,980 --> 00:40:49,660
either of the two searches of
apartment 210 instead, he relied

569
00:40:49,660 --> 00:40:52,960
on reviewing law enforcement's
photographs and visiting the

570
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:57,340
scene himself. On December 9, he
described walking into the

571
00:40:57,340 --> 00:41:01,800
apartment noting how the main
room was dark, illuminated by an

572
00:41:01,800 --> 00:41:07,140
eerie blue tinted light. He took
his own photos, conducted his

573
00:41:07,140 --> 00:41:11,940
own tests, and quickly formed
his opinion this crime scene had

574
00:41:11,940 --> 00:41:17,280
been contaminated. I'm going to
be honest. Lawrence's testimony

575
00:41:17,280 --> 00:41:21,080
was a bit painful to sit
through. He struggled to clarify

576
00:41:21,080 --> 00:41:24,620
whether his statements were
conclusions, theories or just

577
00:41:24,620 --> 00:41:28,640
opinions. At one point, Judge
Patterson had to step in.

578
00:41:30,140 --> 00:41:36,920
Here's what I have. Flesh is
out. As far as opinions that

579
00:41:36,920 --> 00:41:40,420
this witness, as an expert,
Mike, testify to, I've got his

580
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:45,340
opinions that nothing can show
where she died. However, a big

581
00:41:45,340 --> 00:41:48,940
party incident took place in the
desert. As far as the

582
00:41:48,940 --> 00:41:55,960
investigation, more blue
starship has been applied, and

583
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:59,320
also the scene was contaminated
with multiple outdoor brought in

584
00:41:59,320 --> 00:42:04,080
and left out. So those are the
opinions that I have. As far as

585
00:42:04,080 --> 00:42:07,800
this expert witness, perhaps
providing to the jury, if

586
00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:10,500
there's something I've missed,
something you want to explain

587
00:42:10,500 --> 00:42:10,980
more.

588
00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:17,280
One correction on that, sir,
Bucha. Not that little Bucha,

589
00:42:18,300 --> 00:42:20,880
but different types of
techniques, and

590
00:42:22,020 --> 00:42:28,400
that's where the difference
despite

591
00:42:28,400 --> 00:42:32,900
the confusion, Mr. Lawrence
pressed on. He detailed his

592
00:42:32,900 --> 00:42:36,860
examination of Jason Chen's
apartment, describing blood

593
00:42:36,860 --> 00:42:41,200
stains, transfer stains and
impact stains that suggested

594
00:42:41,200 --> 00:42:46,420
potential contamination. Using
digital crime scene photos, he

595
00:42:46,420 --> 00:42:50,860
enhanced images to reveal new
details, including what he

596
00:42:50,860 --> 00:42:54,520
believed to be a blood transfer
stain on a maroon sheet,

597
00:42:54,820 --> 00:42:59,980
possibly from Jasmine Pace's
hand. But discrepancies started

598
00:42:59,980 --> 00:43:04,080
to emerge. Lawrence pointed out
differences between police body

599
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:08,760
cam footage and the crime scene
photos later taken, indicating

600
00:43:08,760 --> 00:43:12,960
that items had been moved after
officers arrived. He also

601
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:15,600
highlighted the challenges of
interpreting blood spatter

602
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:18,900
patterns, noting that
contamination could have come

603
00:43:18,900 --> 00:43:24,200
from multiple sources. Jason
Chen law enforcement, or even

604
00:43:24,200 --> 00:43:28,460
the initial investigation
itself. To his credit, Lawrence

605
00:43:28,460 --> 00:43:32,540
never claimed to have all the
answers. He didn't say this is

606
00:43:32,540 --> 00:43:36,140
exactly how Jasmine died, and
this is exactly what happened in

607
00:43:36,140 --> 00:43:40,960
apartment 210 in fact, he
repeatedly emphasized that he

608
00:43:40,960 --> 00:43:44,500
couldn't reach any absolute
conclusions beyond a reasonable

609
00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:50,380
doubt, which ironically is the
state's job. Judge Patterson

610
00:43:50,380 --> 00:43:55,420
even reminded him of that.
Still, while Lawrence couldn't

611
00:43:55,420 --> 00:44:00,720
offer definitive answers, he did
form theories educated guesses

612
00:44:00,720 --> 00:44:04,920
based on the patterns and traces
left behind. One of those

613
00:44:04,920 --> 00:44:09,480
theories, blood wasn't just
present in one area, it had been

614
00:44:09,480 --> 00:44:12,960
moved, tracked and smeared
across different parts of the

615
00:44:12,960 --> 00:44:17,520
apartment, suggesting that after
Jasmine was injured, there was

616
00:44:17,520 --> 00:44:24,140
movement for us as jurors, this
put us in a strange position. On

617
00:44:24,140 --> 00:44:27,680
one hand, we had an expert
telling us that gaps existed in

618
00:44:27,680 --> 00:44:31,520
the investigation, that key
evidence may have been missed,

619
00:44:32,000 --> 00:44:35,720
but on the other hand, even he
admitted that he couldn't say

620
00:44:35,720 --> 00:44:40,360
with certainty what happened in
that apartment, and that left us

621
00:44:40,360 --> 00:44:44,440
with more questions than
answers. Here's latricia Thomas

622
00:44:44,440 --> 00:44:47,680
from News Channel Nine, sharing
a wrap up of day six in the

623
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:48,400
courtroom.

624
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:56,200
In images of the day came from
this a maroon sheet that was

625
00:44:56,200 --> 00:45:02,340
found in Jason Chen's apartment.
But. How it was found, and in

626
00:45:02,340 --> 00:45:07,440
what direction and in what
specific part of the bed remains

627
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:12,000
to be seen. And that's because
what Johnny Lawrence testified

628
00:45:12,000 --> 00:45:16,500
himself about, which is the
changing in the crime scene from

629
00:45:16,500 --> 00:45:19,740
the first time Chattanooga
Police officers went in with

630
00:45:19,740 --> 00:45:23,300
their body cameras, on which
would have been November 27 in

631
00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:27,740
the early morning hours after
Pace's mother and father called

632
00:45:27,740 --> 00:45:32,600
them there to when those crime
scene photos were later taken by

633
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:36,980
CSI investigators from the
Chattanooga Police Department.

634
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:40,300
Now we've seen these images
before in hearings about this

635
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:43,900
case, let's take a little bit of
a look about what some of them

636
00:45:43,900 --> 00:45:46,900
show. We're not going to show
all of them to you. You can see

637
00:45:46,900 --> 00:45:50,500
here in these comparison images,
they're pointing out a few

638
00:45:50,500 --> 00:45:54,580
different things. They're saying
a door was closed again. These

639
00:45:54,580 --> 00:45:58,180
were there's a lapse of several
days in between these two

640
00:45:59,140 --> 00:46:03,240
different items there on the
floor. The blind position is

641
00:46:03,240 --> 00:46:07,380
different. And then, if you can
see in the right hand image,

642
00:46:07,380 --> 00:46:10,440
there's a pair of underwear
that's on the floor that isn't

643
00:46:10,440 --> 00:46:13,920
there in the first image,
another thing that the

644
00:46:13,920 --> 00:46:18,180
prosecution brought up on cross
examination of Mr. Lawrence was

645
00:46:18,180 --> 00:46:23,900
the direction and the shape of
these supposed handprint blood

646
00:46:23,900 --> 00:46:27,860
transfers there, they pointed
out, if you look at that first

647
00:46:27,860 --> 00:46:33,380
big spot there that could be a
finger, the edge is very

648
00:46:33,380 --> 00:46:38,180
straight. And the prosecution
asked Mr. Lawrence, if you have

649
00:46:38,180 --> 00:46:43,300
a hand print, is the edge of it
usually straight. Well, let me

650
00:46:43,300 --> 00:46:47,800
just read you the transcription
of the testimony there. This is

651
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:52,000
homicide investigator Paul Moyle
from the prosecutor's office. He

652
00:46:52,000 --> 00:46:55,060
asked Lawrence, isn't it
possible, sir, that what we

653
00:46:55,060 --> 00:46:59,620
actually see on the screen is
not a bloody handprint or bloody

654
00:46:59,620 --> 00:47:03,360
fingerprints, but where the
cloth that had been folded over,

655
00:47:03,360 --> 00:47:06,840
and the transfer happened that
way. And then Mr. Lawrence

656
00:47:06,840 --> 00:47:10,500
answers, not necessarily,
because you have to understand

657
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:14,880
what this stain is showing is
variants of the fingers that

658
00:47:14,880 --> 00:47:19,140
have blood on them. And then we
don't know how much blood was on

659
00:47:19,140 --> 00:47:24,620
there, if this was a hand. So
again, on cross examination, the

660
00:47:24,980 --> 00:47:29,480
prosecution getting Lawrence to
say that he's not sure that it

661
00:47:29,480 --> 00:47:34,100
was a hand either. So a lot of
doubt about what we were

662
00:47:34,100 --> 00:47:37,100
actually seeing in some of these
photographs raised, and

663
00:47:37,280 --> 00:47:40,660
something I thought was very
interesting. Again, we've been

664
00:47:40,660 --> 00:47:44,080
talking in this case about how
the jury is allowed to ask

665
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,620
questions of the witnesses after
the state and the defense are

666
00:47:47,620 --> 00:47:51,880
done. One and the judge, Judge
Boyd Patterson, has actually

667
00:47:52,060 --> 00:47:56,440
commended the jury on how good
of notes they're taking and how

668
00:47:56,440 --> 00:48:01,920
specific their questions are. So
one juror asks about the items

669
00:48:01,920 --> 00:48:05,460
that are moved in the apartment.
Again, these items from Mr.

670
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:09,060
Lawrence's own report. So the
judge reads the jury question

671
00:48:09,060 --> 00:48:11,940
there at the end. Do you think
it's possible that Jason Chen

672
00:48:11,940 --> 00:48:16,680
moved items on November 27 after
the body cam footage was filmed

673
00:48:16,860 --> 00:48:20,220
since cellular records, again,
this is from earlier testimony

674
00:48:20,220 --> 00:48:25,160
in the week, show him in that
same area later in the day. So a

675
00:48:25,160 --> 00:48:29,120
cell phone expert who extracted
the locations of Jason Chen

676
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,200
testified earlier in this week
that he was in the same location

677
00:48:33,200 --> 00:48:38,300
of Tremont street later on the
27th and then this is kind of

678
00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:43,240
where this all comes down the
the expert witness, Mr.

679
00:48:43,240 --> 00:48:46,060
Lawrence, says there's nothing
that gives me any information

680
00:48:46,300 --> 00:48:49,180
about who moves items he's
talking about. There's nothing

681
00:48:49,180 --> 00:48:51,640
to lock in who it was.

682
00:48:58,600 --> 00:49:02,520
Day six of the trial gave us
more than just testimony. It

683
00:49:02,520 --> 00:49:06,360
gave us a timeline of
desperation. We heard from

684
00:49:06,360 --> 00:49:10,920
Jasmine's father, Travis pace,
who physically forced his way

685
00:49:10,920 --> 00:49:15,300
into Jason Chen's apartment,
driven not by protocol, but by

686
00:49:15,300 --> 00:49:19,620
panic. He wasn't looking for
evidence. He was looking for his

687
00:49:19,620 --> 00:49:23,300
daughter. We heard from
Courtney, the downstairs

688
00:49:23,300 --> 00:49:27,140
neighbor, who unknowingly became
the ear witness to Jasmine's

689
00:49:27,140 --> 00:49:31,760
final moments, hearing a scream
the chase and sobs that would

690
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:36,740
later haunt us all. And we heard
from Johnny Lawrence, a private

691
00:49:36,740 --> 00:49:40,840
investigator who was brought in
too late. His job was to

692
00:49:40,840 --> 00:49:43,840
reconstruct a crime scene that
had already been trampled

693
00:49:43,840 --> 00:49:48,400
through by family, by law
enforcement and by Jason

694
00:49:48,400 --> 00:49:54,100
himself. What Lawrence gave us
wasn't certainty. It was a list

695
00:49:54,100 --> 00:49:59,320
of what ifs, and that was the
defense's entire case three

696
00:49:59,320 --> 00:50:03,720
witnesses. None of them did much
to help their argument, and then

697
00:50:03,720 --> 00:50:07,920
just like that, they were done.
After all the build up, all the

698
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:11,760
motions and all the attempts to
poke holes in the state's case,

699
00:50:12,120 --> 00:50:16,440
the defense rested with Johnny
Lawrence as their final witness.

700
00:50:17,340 --> 00:50:21,920
No bombshell revelations, no
airtight alibis, just

701
00:50:21,920 --> 00:50:27,200
speculation discrepancies and a
forensic expert who wasn't even

702
00:50:27,200 --> 00:50:31,640
there when the evidence was
collected for a case of this

703
00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:39,920
magnitude, it felt underwhelming
next time on sequestered you

704
00:50:43,060 --> 00:50:48,280
victims matter. Jasmine pace is
not just some girl listed in

705
00:50:48,280 --> 00:50:54,400
autopsy report. She is not the
photos that you have seen. She's

706
00:50:54,400 --> 00:51:00,220
a person. She had family that
loved her. She was a friend. She

707
00:51:00,220 --> 00:51:05,460
was a granddaughter. Please,
don't minimize this trial to the

708
00:51:05,460 --> 00:51:06,480
trial for him,

709
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,120
as the trial nears its end, the
prosecution and defense make

710
00:51:12,120 --> 00:51:16,320
their final gripping arguments.
Was Jason Chen's crime, a

711
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:20,780
calculated act of murder or a
moment of uncontrolled passion

712
00:51:22,280 --> 00:51:24,680
that's next on episode eight.

713
00:51:33,800 --> 00:51:36,560
Thank you for listening to
sequestered a juror's

714
00:51:36,560 --> 00:51:40,480
perspective on the murder trial
for Jasmine pace each episode

715
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,180
brings us closer to
understanding the trial, the

716
00:51:43,180 --> 00:51:47,020
people involved, and the weight
of seeking justice. If this

717
00:51:47,020 --> 00:51:51,100
story speaks to you, please
follow, share and continue the

718
00:51:51,100 --> 00:51:55,060
conversation with us. Jasmine's
story deserves to be remembered.

719
00:51:58,060 --> 00:52:02,880
This is a BP production. The
show is written, edited and

720
00:52:02,880 --> 00:52:07,800
produced by me Sarah Reed, with
CO production by Andrea Kleid.

721
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:12,000
News clips featured in this
episode were sourced from wtvc

722
00:52:12,000 --> 00:52:15,960
News Channel Nine, local three
news Chattanooga and the law and

723
00:52:15,960 --> 00:52:19,980
crime network. Music and sound
design are curated to reflect

724
00:52:19,980 --> 00:52:23,660
the gravity and sensitivity of
this story, and with the intent

725
00:52:23,660 --> 00:52:27,440
to honor Jasmine, her family and
the community affected by her

726
00:52:27,440 --> 00:52:31,700
death. For more information or
to connect with us, visit

727
00:52:31,700 --> 00:52:36,380
sequestered pod.com or follow us
on Instagram at sequestered pod.

728
00:52:37,520 --> 00:52:41,680
Thank you for listening until
next Time, stay curious and stay

729
00:52:41,680 --> 00:52:41,980
safe. You.