Episode 05: The Body in the Suitcase

1
00:00:01,020 --> 00:00:04,440
Before we get into this episode,
I want to give you a heads up.

2
00:00:04,860 --> 00:00:08,400
It contains graphic descriptions
of violence, including details

3
00:00:08,400 --> 00:00:12,240
from an autopsy. Out of respect
for Jasmine and her family,

4
00:00:12,480 --> 00:00:14,760
we've chosen to hold back on
some of the more graphic

5
00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:19,080
details, but what you will hear
may still be unsettling, so

6
00:00:19,080 --> 00:00:28,940
please listen with care. It's
Thursday, January 16, 2025, day

7
00:00:28,940 --> 00:00:33,620
four of the trial. Before we
even stepped into the jury room

8
00:00:33,620 --> 00:00:37,880
this morning, we could feel the
weight of what was coming. I

9
00:00:37,880 --> 00:00:41,440
went to bed last night bracing
myself for today, trying to

10
00:00:41,440 --> 00:00:46,780
prepare my mind and my heart for
what we were about to see. But

11
00:00:46,780 --> 00:00:51,640
how do you prepare for something
like this? As jurors, part of

12
00:00:51,640 --> 00:00:55,480
our job was to face the evidence
to see what no one should ever

13
00:00:55,480 --> 00:01:00,780
have to see. Today we would see
images of Jasmine paces lifeless

14
00:01:00,780 --> 00:01:05,460
body, and with them the
undeniable reality of what was

15
00:01:05,460 --> 00:01:10,800
done to her. We already knew the
facts. She was stabbed 60 times,

16
00:01:10,800 --> 00:01:16,140
restrained and stuffed into a
suitcase, but knowing and seeing

17
00:01:16,680 --> 00:01:20,960
those are two entirely different
things no one should ever have

18
00:01:20,960 --> 00:01:25,700
to witness another human being
in that state, and yet, here we

19
00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:26,060
were.

20
00:01:33,320 --> 00:01:37,220
This is sequestered a juror's
perspective on the murder trial

21
00:01:37,220 --> 00:01:43,180
for Jasmine pace. I'm Sarah,
juror number 11 each episode,

22
00:01:43,180 --> 00:01:45,940
I'll take you inside the
courtroom, behind the scenes,

23
00:01:46,000 --> 00:01:49,780
and into the weighty moments of
this trial as we honor Jasmine's

24
00:01:49,780 --> 00:01:53,500
life and navigate the
complexities of seeking justice.

25
00:01:54,580 --> 00:01:55,180
Let's begin.

26
00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:04,980
This is Episode Five, the body
in the suitcase.

27
00:02:12,360 --> 00:02:15,360
I learned this only after the
fact, but while we were waiting

28
00:02:15,360 --> 00:02:19,020
in the jury room that morning,
da Cody WAMP noticed that

29
00:02:19,020 --> 00:02:23,300
defense attorney Weiss moved a
trash can near Jason Chen at the

30
00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:27,860
defense table, along with a box
of tissues. Here's a clip of how

31
00:02:27,860 --> 00:02:30,680
that scene played out in the
courtroom just minutes before

32
00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:31,940
the jury came in one second,

33
00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:40,840
they moved the trash can inside
the defendant and they brought

34
00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:43,720
little nappies over here. If it
applies to the gallery that

35
00:02:43,780 --> 00:02:47,740
there can be no outburst, Mr.
Chin also needs to be selling

36
00:02:47,740 --> 00:02:52,900
posts during this testimony, or
he can exit the court as well.

37
00:02:57,160 --> 00:03:00,520
Okay, well, the trash can move
closer to already indicated that

38
00:03:00,520 --> 00:03:03,420
he's feeling he's feeling
unwell. I'm just saying that's

39
00:03:03,420 --> 00:03:04,620
prejudicial as well. Judge.

40
00:03:06,300 --> 00:03:10,080
Everyone has to comport
themselves with the maintain the

41
00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,560
court or this particular
proceeding, so that includes

42
00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:19,620
Council defendants. However,
this is going to be very graphic

43
00:03:19,680 --> 00:03:23,600
and personal testimony. So
everyone needs to maintain their

44
00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,740
composure. Courier questions
twice. If there is anyone the

45
00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:31,460
gallery that feels they cannot
maintain their composure, it's

46
00:03:31,460 --> 00:03:34,700
particular witness. It is best
to be going to leave right now.

47
00:03:34,940 --> 00:03:37,400
You know what's happening about
to be displayed on the screen.

48
00:03:38,540 --> 00:03:40,940
So that mission does extend to
Mr. Chin,

49
00:03:42,560 --> 00:03:46,240
as you can tell, da WAMP raises
her concerns to the judge about

50
00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,960
Jason Chen receiving
preferential treatment. She

51
00:03:49,960 --> 00:03:52,900
points out that Weiss moved the
trash can and tissues near their

52
00:03:52,900 --> 00:03:56,020
table, implying that the
defendant may be trying to sway

53
00:03:56,020 --> 00:03:59,500
the court's perception. Judge
Patterson responds by

54
00:03:59,500 --> 00:04:03,300
emphasizing that everyone in the
courtroom, including Chen, must

55
00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:06,900
maintain composure, especially
given the graphic nature of the

56
00:04:06,900 --> 00:04:11,340
upcoming testimony. Judge
Patterson also warns the gallery

57
00:04:11,400 --> 00:04:15,120
that anyone who is unable to
remain composed should excuse

58
00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:17,760
themselves from the courtroom
before this evidence is

59
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:22,220
presented. At this time,
Jasmine's mother, Katrina bean

60
00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,820
and Jason Chen's mother, Shu
Fang Chen, both leave the

61
00:04:25,820 --> 00:04:31,220
courtroom. They already knew
some things once seen can never

62
00:04:31,220 --> 00:04:39,800
be unseen. This all happened
before we even entered the

63
00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:44,200
courtroom. Pre trial matters
were a regular occurrence, so we

64
00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:47,800
never really knew what we'd be
walking into each day. But

65
00:04:47,800 --> 00:04:50,260
something was noticeably
different this morning, as we

66
00:04:50,260 --> 00:04:53,980
took our seats, despite the
tension in the room, the

67
00:04:53,980 --> 00:04:59,200
proceedings were officially
underway by 945 Hamilton County

68
00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:02,700
medical exam. And forensic
psychologist, Dr Stephen

69
00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,840
Cogswell was sworn in as the
state's first expert witness

70
00:05:08,460 --> 00:05:11,340
with nearly 40 years of
experience and 1000s of

71
00:05:11,340 --> 00:05:15,660
autopsies to his name, including
over 100 cases involving fatal

72
00:05:15,660 --> 00:05:19,140
stab wounds. Dr Stephen
cogswell's experience is

73
00:05:19,140 --> 00:05:24,740
undeniable. His presence alone
commands respect as he takes the

74
00:05:24,740 --> 00:05:29,180
stand Dr Cogswell, a middle aged
man with a shaved head and a

75
00:05:29,180 --> 00:05:32,540
neatly trimmed beard peppered
with gray, carries himself with

76
00:05:32,540 --> 00:05:37,340
quiet authority. He wears black
glasses and is dressed sharply

77
00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:41,740
in a navy collared shirt, a blue
pattern tie and a dark gray suit

78
00:05:41,740 --> 00:05:47,020
jacket exuding professionalism
and confidence General. Moyle

79
00:05:47,020 --> 00:05:50,320
brings Doctor Cogswell to the
scene of suck Creek Road on the

80
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:55,180
afternoon of December 1 2022
Moyle asks him,

81
00:05:56,920 --> 00:06:00,360
what did you see when you got
there? Obviously, there were

82
00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:05,640
quite a few law enforcement
vehicles, and off to the side of

83
00:06:05,640 --> 00:06:14,520
the road, adjacent to the river,
was a hard shell suitcase. Just

84
00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:18,420
off the shoulder of the road,
near that area were actually a

85
00:06:18,420 --> 00:06:22,100
couple of deer carcasses that
have been tossed out there after

86
00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:29,300
butchering. But in particular,
this suitcase was basically the

87
00:06:29,420 --> 00:06:33,260
the time that you would take on
a relatively extended trip,

88
00:06:33,620 --> 00:06:40,540
large suitcase on wheels,
handle, etcetera, after all of

89
00:06:40,540 --> 00:06:46,660
the documentation, photographic
and location issues were

90
00:06:46,660 --> 00:06:51,460
resolved by police department so
that they could place it

91
00:06:51,460 --> 00:06:55,300
exactly. Then the question came
up, well, what is in the

92
00:06:55,300 --> 00:07:02,340
suitcase? And at that point, the
cover of the suitcase, the lid

93
00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:09,300
is open inside a black plastic
trash bag. And so using

94
00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:16,140
basically just hands, I could
feel along the contents of the

95
00:07:16,140 --> 00:07:20,420
bag and say, Yes, this is not
animal or something. This is a

96
00:07:20,840 --> 00:07:26,720
good game inside out which point
that the suitcase was closed

97
00:07:26,720 --> 00:07:30,680
back up, it was transported to
Medical Examiner's Office, and

98
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:36,800
at that point, further examine,
not just the suitcase, but also

99
00:07:36,800 --> 00:07:37,700
the contents.

100
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:43,300
Next Moyle asked Dr Cogswell,
what did you do when you

101
00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:46,900
returned to your office? Here's
a clip of Dr cogswell's

102
00:07:46,900 --> 00:07:47,620
response.

103
00:07:49,420 --> 00:07:53,380
At that point, before we do
anything else, then we're going

104
00:07:53,380 --> 00:07:56,140
to start doing photographs and X
rays, because we're going to

105
00:07:56,140 --> 00:08:00,460
document everything we're doing
as we're doing it in a step wise

106
00:08:00,460 --> 00:08:05,040
fashion, because we don't want
to lose evidence. So in X ray,

107
00:08:05,340 --> 00:08:08,880
we basically just lay the
suitcase on top of the X ray

108
00:08:08,880 --> 00:08:13,860
plates and X rays through the
suitcase. And looking at those x

109
00:08:13,860 --> 00:08:18,780
rays, it was evident that there
is a deceased person inside,

110
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,960
basically in a fetal position
that is drawn with the knees

111
00:08:23,960 --> 00:08:30,440
drawn up and the arms crossed
around, across the chest and

112
00:08:31,400 --> 00:08:36,920
fitted into the suitcase. In
addition, along with all of the

113
00:08:36,920 --> 00:08:40,900
hardware in the suitcase that
shows up on X ray, there's also

114
00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:46,360
a triangular metallic density
piece that showed up in the area

115
00:08:46,360 --> 00:08:52,720
of the chest, and it's something
that obviously didn't belong to

116
00:08:52,780 --> 00:08:56,080
the suitcase, because there's a
very regular arrangement of

117
00:08:57,640 --> 00:09:06,540
support bars, rivets, etc, that
is fairly symmetrical. So after

118
00:09:06,540 --> 00:09:12,060
the X raying was done, then the
body was lifted out of the

119
00:09:12,060 --> 00:09:16,320
suitcase, and at that point,
then the suitcase is laid off to

120
00:09:16,320 --> 00:09:20,960
the side. That's no longer a
medical examiner interest.

121
00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:26,780
That's law enforcement interest.
And then I proceeded to cut each

122
00:09:26,780 --> 00:09:31,700
of the black plastic trash bags
along one side and along the

123
00:09:31,700 --> 00:09:35,840
bottom and remove each of those
in turn. Turns out there were

124
00:09:35,840 --> 00:09:44,260
three, and that's happens to be
fairly common at least, at least

125
00:09:44,260 --> 00:09:47,620
in the bodies that I've done in
cases in which you have autopsy,

126
00:09:48,220 --> 00:09:51,520
where people have been disposed
of in trash bags. It seems like

127
00:09:52,000 --> 00:09:55,660
the interior bag is always
pulled up from the feet toward

128
00:09:55,660 --> 00:09:58,360
the head, and then there's
another one down from the head

129
00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,400
toward the feet, and then there
may. Your third one, again, feet

130
00:10:02,400 --> 00:10:06,000
toward the head. In this case,
turns out it was exactly the

131
00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:12,600
same way. I guess that's just
how humans fit. But so each of

132
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:17,520
those bags is cut off, removed,
and that reveals the body of a

133
00:10:17,520 --> 00:10:22,680
young woman who is in a fetal
position, has no clothing on the

134
00:10:22,680 --> 00:10:25,460
top. Body and is shackled and
handheld.

135
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,080
I think it's interesting that
Cogswell mentions the direction

136
00:10:33,080 --> 00:10:38,420
in which the bags were placed
over Jasmine's body. Here, he

137
00:10:38,420 --> 00:10:42,460
said the first bag was pulled up
from her feet to her head. The

138
00:10:42,460 --> 00:10:46,600
second place from her head down
towards her feet, and the third,

139
00:10:46,660 --> 00:10:51,160
once again, from her feet over
her head. Each bag was cinched

140
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:55,600
closed and tied with a knot. At
first, this might seem like a

141
00:10:55,600 --> 00:11:00,040
minor detail, but his point is
chilling. Cogswell has clearly

142
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,720
seen this pattern before, and it
speaks to something deeper,

143
00:11:04,140 --> 00:11:07,440
something disturbingly
consistent in human behavior

144
00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:15,000
when attempting to conceal a
body, Dr Cogswell then walks the

145
00:11:15,000 --> 00:11:18,720
jury through the painstaking
process of documenting all 60 of

146
00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:23,600
the whims on Jasmine's body.
Each injury is photographed,

147
00:11:23,600 --> 00:11:28,700
first as it was found, then
again after being cleaned. He

148
00:11:28,700 --> 00:11:32,000
explains the key difference
between incised wounds and stab

149
00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,960
wounds in size, wounds are more
superficial and have

150
00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:40,240
directionality, appearing more
as a slice, while stab wounds

151
00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:44,260
are as they sound, a strike
penetrating deeper and causing

152
00:11:44,260 --> 00:11:49,660
more severe damage. The jury
also learns about three critical

153
00:11:49,660 --> 00:11:54,160
time frames forensic experts use
to classify injuries, ante

154
00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:58,660
mortem, which is inflicted
before death, perimortem, which

155
00:11:58,660 --> 00:12:02,580
is inflicted around the time of
death, and post mortem, which is

156
00:12:02,580 --> 00:12:07,980
inflicted after death, it's a
sobering moment as science

157
00:12:07,980 --> 00:12:11,460
strips away the emotion and
breaks down the unimaginable

158
00:12:11,460 --> 00:12:18,120
into cold clinical facts. Dr
Cogswell then shares a lesson he

159
00:12:18,120 --> 00:12:21,140
instills in his students when
teaching about sharp force

160
00:12:21,140 --> 00:12:28,640
injuries, look for the blood
until every drop is accounted

161
00:12:28,640 --> 00:12:32,540
for. They truly don't know where
the bleeding occurred. And until

162
00:12:32,540 --> 00:12:35,000
you find this, you haven't found
the crime scene.

163
00:12:37,580 --> 00:12:41,740
Basically all stab wounds,
unless they actually hit your

164
00:12:41,740 --> 00:12:44,800
brain, your central nervous
system, because of that, by

165
00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:51,100
making you leave today, that's
the mechanism. So we look at, I

166
00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:55,540
what is the flow quality in your
average person of this size, if

167
00:12:55,540 --> 00:13:02,700
it goes by size? So a person who
is the size of jasmine, PACE

168
00:13:02,880 --> 00:13:07,620
just under 100 pounds. Her blood
volume is approximately four

169
00:13:07,620 --> 00:13:12,660
liters of four quarts of blood.
So a gallon of blood. Now, if

170
00:13:12,660 --> 00:13:19,080
you lose about 20 to 30% of your
blood volume, that is sufficient

171
00:13:19,080 --> 00:13:23,360
to make you unconscious.
Anything about 30% is sufficient

172
00:13:23,360 --> 00:13:28,880
to actually cause death. So when
we look at someone who has four

173
00:13:28,880 --> 00:13:35,720
quarts of blood, if we lose four
and a half, that's sufficient to

174
00:13:35,720 --> 00:13:39,320
cause death. So there should
still be some blood left inside

175
00:13:39,320 --> 00:13:43,300
the body, but it's going to be
spread around in the body and

176
00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:46,840
capillaries, the blood that's in
the big toe is going to remain

177
00:13:46,840 --> 00:13:52,300
in the big toe. So what we're
actually looking at is, where is

178
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:56,440
that quarter and a half of
blood? When I'm teaching classes

179
00:13:56,440 --> 00:14:01,980
on sharp horse injuries, look
for the blood, because a four

180
00:14:01,980 --> 00:14:06,660
and a half blood goes a long
way. Using an allergy, everyone

181
00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:10,860
is painted a wall sometime in
their life that's a gallon of

182
00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:16,080
blood. That's four quarts. You
can paint a room with a gallon

183
00:14:16,080 --> 00:14:21,500
of blood. So if you see a spot
of blood this big, and someone

184
00:14:21,500 --> 00:14:25,340
is dead, there's more blood
somewhere else. Maybe it's

185
00:14:25,340 --> 00:14:30,440
inside the body, but maybe it's
also another scene. So that's

186
00:14:30,440 --> 00:14:34,760
why we say look for the blood,
because until you have found all

187
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:37,760
that blood, you don't really
know where the bleeding

188
00:14:38,120 --> 00:14:38,480
occurred.

189
00:14:41,540 --> 00:14:46,000
You can paint a room with a
gallon of blood. That phrase

190
00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:50,620
stuck with me the moment Dr
Cogswell said it, I instantly

191
00:14:50,620 --> 00:14:53,740
looked down at the carpet still
laying out on the courtroom

192
00:14:53,740 --> 00:14:58,600
floor stained with Jasmine's
blood. It wasn't just evidence,

193
00:14:59,020 --> 00:15:06,900
it was a hunting. Reminder of
where her life ended. This feels

194
00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:09,660
like a good time to remind you
to take care while listening to

195
00:15:09,660 --> 00:15:14,160
this episode, out of respect for
Jasmine's family, we're choosing

196
00:15:14,160 --> 00:15:18,120
not to share every graphic
detail about her wounds, but we

197
00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,960
do want to give enough context
to help you understand what

198
00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:28,580
happened. Dr Cogswell begins
with X ray images, offering an

199
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:32,120
undeniable glimpse into how
Jasmine's body was positioned

200
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:36,200
inside of the suitcase. Her head
toward the handle and her feet

201
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:40,300
toward the wheels. He then
shifts to the evidence of

202
00:15:40,300 --> 00:15:45,160
restraint. Jasmine's right wrist
was handcuffed to the inside of

203
00:15:45,160 --> 00:15:49,420
her left ankle, while her right
ankle was shackled to her right

204
00:15:49,420 --> 00:15:54,640
elbow. It was a restrictive,
contorted position that suggests

205
00:15:54,640 --> 00:15:59,920
deliberate immobilization in an
effort to better understand how

206
00:15:59,920 --> 00:16:03,180
she was restrained. I actually
laid on the floor of my living

207
00:16:03,180 --> 00:16:09,060
room and tried to get into this
position myself. And restrictive

208
00:16:09,060 --> 00:16:12,540
and contortive, are great
descriptions of the position she

209
00:16:12,540 --> 00:16:18,240
was forced into. One critical
detail stands out the chain on

210
00:16:18,240 --> 00:16:21,680
the shackles was broken, a
possible sign of a desperate

211
00:16:21,680 --> 00:16:25,280
struggle. Yet, Dr Cogswell is
quick to point out something

212
00:16:25,280 --> 00:16:29,660
unexpected. There were no
ligature marks or abrasions on

213
00:16:29,660 --> 00:16:33,500
Jasmine's ankles or wrists,
raising even more questions

214
00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:37,520
about how and when the
restraints were applied, a

215
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,100
detail the defense will be sure
to bring up later. Even more

216
00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:45,460
telling is the pattern of her
injuries. The majority of

217
00:16:45,460 --> 00:16:48,880
Jasmine's 60 wounds were
concentrated on her upper right

218
00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,540
side, reinforcing the theory
that she was in the fetal

219
00:16:52,540 --> 00:16:57,820
position during the attack. Now
let's return to the courtroom as

220
00:16:57,820 --> 00:17:00,840
Dr Cogswell walks the jury
through the X rays of the

221
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:01,620
suitcase

222
00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:09,540
in the position the suitcase is
right now her body is with the

223
00:17:09,540 --> 00:17:18,840
head upward facing toward the
courtroom. So I'm now showing

224
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:23,960
you two of three, two. She
orients us to this boat, right?

225
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:29,720
This photo is moving over a
little bit to, if I can point to

226
00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:36,380
the suitcase, to this area here
that we're X ray and again, we

227
00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:39,260
see another one of these
reinforcing ribs, a few more

228
00:17:39,260 --> 00:17:43,960
rivets, etcetera, etcetera, a
zipper of a hole on the inside.

229
00:17:44,320 --> 00:17:49,300
And here we have a knee. You can
see the kneecap here, and the

230
00:17:49,300 --> 00:17:53,380
lower leg, the shin and the
fibula that goes along with it.

231
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:58,540
This is the thigh bone. Here you
see a hand, or the bones of a

232
00:17:58,540 --> 00:18:05,880
hand. And you can see the top of
the skull as well. Here, 233,

233
00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:12,420
and we're moving downward on the
suitcase in basically

234
00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:18,180
counterclockwise fashion, to
this area, down toward the wheel

235
00:18:18,420 --> 00:18:24,860
on the the style closest to the
courtroom, and we see again that

236
00:18:24,860 --> 00:18:29,780
reinforcing ribs, zippers,
rivets, etc. But we also see

237
00:18:30,860 --> 00:18:37,100
handcuffs and shackles, as well
as a another metallic device

238
00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,260
here, which is actually
embraced, but you can see on

239
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,440
this one there is a chain that
extends here, and there is no

240
00:18:47,440 --> 00:18:52,060
chain coming off of this
particular one. And we're down

241
00:18:52,060 --> 00:18:57,460
here to feet. These are the foot
bones, feet and ankle bones down

242
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:05,280
here. So we have forearm here,
with the two forearm bones and

243
00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:12,540
arm and forearm bones here. And
so we're down here. This is her

244
00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:18,720
buttocks, 234, sir. And we're
moving over obviously to the

245
00:19:18,720 --> 00:19:22,940
last part, which is down here.
And again, we have all the

246
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:27,980
hardware of the suitcase. We see
a bit of pelvis bone here, the

247
00:19:28,760 --> 00:19:33,680
lumbar spine here, again, one of
those shackles that you saw in

248
00:19:33,680 --> 00:19:37,820
the previous X ray. And so we
have, basically, by going

249
00:19:37,820 --> 00:19:43,240
counterclockwise, we have a
complete picture of a small

250
00:19:43,240 --> 00:19:46,600
individual at this point we
didn't know, male or female,

251
00:19:47,440 --> 00:19:52,720
still inside the suitcase, still
inside those black plastic bags.

252
00:19:54,520 --> 00:19:59,680
Yeah, you heard that correctly.
Handcuffs and shackles for those

253
00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:03,360
of you. Who are curious about
the difference between the two I

254
00:20:03,360 --> 00:20:07,440
was handcuffs are designed to
restrain a person's wrists

255
00:20:07,440 --> 00:20:11,640
together. Shackles, on the other
hand, have a longer chain

256
00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,520
between the cuffs and are
typically heavier metal

257
00:20:14,520 --> 00:20:17,580
restraints used to secure
different parts of the body,

258
00:20:18,000 --> 00:20:23,840
usually the ankles. Think of
prisoners being transferred with

259
00:20:23,840 --> 00:20:27,440
prosecutor Moyles instructions.
Dr Cogswell puts on a pair of

260
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,200
blue gloves and opens the
evidence bag containing the

261
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,540
handcuffs, showing them to the
jury

262
00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:44,200
they were still wrapped in the
surgical talent that came from

263
00:20:44,200 --> 00:20:51,280
the medical examiner's office.
Again, these are not the typical

264
00:20:51,280 --> 00:20:55,420
law enforcement handcuffs.
They're simply cheap steel

265
00:20:55,420 --> 00:21:02,700
crumbling Thank you, and there's
the same cups and songs. Yes, it

266
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:02,940
was

267
00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:10,140
correct. Yes,

268
00:21:13,260 --> 00:21:15,720
he goes through the same process
with the shackles.

269
00:21:17,760 --> 00:21:23,360
In the case of the shackles, it
was not to the left arm, but it

270
00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:29,720
was to the right elbow or
forearm just below the elbow. So

271
00:21:29,900 --> 00:21:34,520
her left hand and arm were
actually free. They were not

272
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:41,680
bound since two of 419 Could you
tell us what we're looking at

273
00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:50,020
this photograph. This is Jasmine
paces right elbow area. You can

274
00:21:50,020 --> 00:21:55,120
see this would be the tattoo on
her shoulder. This is her actual

275
00:21:55,120 --> 00:22:02,220
elbow here. And you can see two
lines of rust, basically, along

276
00:22:02,220 --> 00:22:07,860
with the pattern of that chain,
again, with a rust pattern

277
00:22:08,520 --> 00:22:14,340
showing where the shackle was.
And in fact, you can see, I

278
00:22:14,340 --> 00:22:20,360
think, where the double part of
the shackle is, over here, right

279
00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:21,260
at the inside.

280
00:22:29,420 --> 00:22:32,780
Cogswell also pointed out rust
stains on Jasmine's skin,

281
00:22:33,260 --> 00:22:36,500
evidence of where the shackles
and chains pressed against her

282
00:22:36,500 --> 00:22:40,660
for an extended period. He then
presented a photo of the left

283
00:22:40,660 --> 00:22:44,560
side of Jasmine's body, which
was completely free of wounds,

284
00:22:44,980 --> 00:22:48,520
but when her body was rolled
over, it became clear that every

285
00:22:48,520 --> 00:22:52,840
single injury was concentrated
on her upper right side. This

286
00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:55,960
pattern, he explained, is
consistent with someone being

287
00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:59,500
trapped in the fetal position,
further reinforcing the

288
00:22:59,500 --> 00:23:02,640
prosecution's theory that
Jasmine was confined and

289
00:23:02,640 --> 00:23:07,140
immobilized during the attack.
There was a moment during these

290
00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:09,900
photos when I found myself
staring down at my blank

291
00:23:09,900 --> 00:23:14,040
notepad, my mind unable to
process what I was seeing

292
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:18,780
without thinking, I silently
muttered to myself, Oh, my God,

293
00:23:19,560 --> 00:23:23,900
the sheer number of her injuries
was overwhelming. Each one a

294
00:23:23,900 --> 00:23:28,400
brutal testament to what Jasmine
endured. I just couldn't believe

295
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:34,520
it. This entire time, Jason
Chen's head is hanging down. At

296
00:23:34,520 --> 00:23:37,100
first, it seems like he's
avoiding the photos being shown

297
00:23:37,100 --> 00:23:41,320
on the courtroom screen, but by
now, I had noticed a small

298
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:44,500
monitor mounted under the glass
top of the defense table

299
00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:49,480
directly in front of him. Later,
I asked the bailiff about it,

300
00:23:49,720 --> 00:23:52,540
and he confirmed that every time
something appeared on the large

301
00:23:52,540 --> 00:23:55,720
screen in the courtroom, the
smaller screen in front of him

302
00:23:55,720 --> 00:24:01,380
turns on and displays the same
content. So while Jason appeared

303
00:24:01,380 --> 00:24:06,480
downcast, maybe even remorseful,
the truth was he was seeing

304
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:13,320
those images in even sharper
detail than the rest of us. As

305
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,800
images filled the screen, Dr
Cogswell walked us through key

306
00:24:16,800 --> 00:24:21,020
identifiers used during
Jasmine's autopsy, markers that

307
00:24:21,020 --> 00:24:25,280
helped confirm her identity.
Among those identifiers were her

308
00:24:25,280 --> 00:24:29,600
tattoos, permanent expressions
of who she was now preserved

309
00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:32,900
only in these photos and in the
memories of those who loved her.

310
00:24:32,900 --> 00:24:33,020
You

311
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:52,960
You know, during sequestration,
I had a lot of time to think,

312
00:24:53,380 --> 00:24:56,500
and honestly, I kept wishing I
had a speaker so that I could

313
00:24:56,500 --> 00:24:59,920
just listen to a great book.
That's why I love audiobooks.

314
00:25:00,240 --> 00:25:03,900
And whether I'm driving, walking
the dogs or traveling, I can

315
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:08,220
just press play and get lost in
an amazing story anytime and

316
00:25:08,220 --> 00:25:12,780
anywhere. One of my all time
favorites is New York by Edward

317
00:25:12,780 --> 00:25:17,520
Rutherford. This epic historical
novel spans over 400 years,

318
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:20,420
following generations of
families through the city's most

319
00:25:20,420 --> 00:25:24,260
pivotal moments from its Dutch
settlement days and all the way

320
00:25:24,260 --> 00:25:30,020
to 911 it was one of the first
audio books I had ever listened

321
00:25:30,020 --> 00:25:33,620
to. It felt like the narrator
was reading the story, just for

322
00:25:33,620 --> 00:25:38,540
me. I was completely hooked.
Here's some good news. You can

323
00:25:38,540 --> 00:25:42,940
listen to New York or any other
book for free. Audible is giving

324
00:25:42,940 --> 00:25:46,480
sequestered listeners a free
audiobook with a 30 day trial.

325
00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:50,740
Just go to audible trial.com.
Forward slash sequestered,

326
00:25:51,820 --> 00:25:56,380
that's one free book yours to
keep forever. So find something

327
00:25:56,380 --> 00:26:00,720
you love and get listening. Go
to audible trial.com. Forward

328
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:01,980
slash sequestered.

329
00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:19,860
Dr cogswell's testimony didn't
just outline the injuries, it

330
00:26:19,860 --> 00:26:24,260
painted a vivid picture of the
violence Jasmine suffered. His

331
00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:27,440
detailed observations provided
the jury with a clearer

332
00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:30,320
understanding of the
circumstances surrounding her

333
00:26:30,320 --> 00:26:34,160
death, emphasizing the
deliberate and confined nature

334
00:26:34,160 --> 00:26:38,720
of the attack while they are
talking about Jasmine being in

335
00:26:38,720 --> 00:26:43,000
the fetal position, Moyle goes
back to the large carpet sample

336
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:47,260
on the floor of the courtroom
and asks Dr Cogswell if he sees

337
00:26:47,260 --> 00:26:51,040
any significance with the blood
stain in regards to the size of

338
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:52,180
Jasmine's body,

339
00:26:53,620 --> 00:27:01,920
there any medical significance
to the stain that we see in item

340
00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:09,840
127, to the physical evidence
that we have as 158, when I

341
00:27:09,840 --> 00:27:14,220
first saw this photograph, it
immediately struck me, and I

342
00:27:14,220 --> 00:27:17,100
think I actually blurted out
that looks like a shroud of

343
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:25,220
Turin, and what I saw here was
basically a recreation of the

344
00:27:25,220 --> 00:27:28,100
blood state pattern, or a blood
state pattern that I would

345
00:27:28,100 --> 00:27:33,680
expect to see if someone is
bleeding in that fetal position

346
00:27:33,680 --> 00:27:40,900
that we saw, because we have the
feet and legs down here, with

347
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:46,120
the knees drawn up, arm down
here, other arm here and here

348
00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:49,780
and now. Obviously, it's not
exact, because it's being

349
00:27:49,780 --> 00:27:56,560
absorbed and spread a little
bit, but the shape is very, very

350
00:27:56,560 --> 00:28:03,720
consistent with not only the
positioning of Jasmine faces

351
00:28:03,720 --> 00:28:09,720
body, but also the size of her
body. And so if, if we look at

352
00:28:10,320 --> 00:28:14,100
the size of her body, the
positioning of her body, and

353
00:28:14,100 --> 00:28:18,720
look at the stain, way overlay
through what actually dirty,

354
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:26,360
now, can I say that's absolutely
no. I don't know what testing

355
00:28:26,360 --> 00:28:29,600
has done to match that to her,
although the stain is extremely

356
00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,540
consistent with her body, as
found

357
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:39,800
at this point, with Moyles
directing Cogswell methodically

358
00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:44,560
takes the jury through all 60
stab wounds one by one, using

359
00:28:44,560 --> 00:28:48,700
clinical, almost detached
terminology like curvilinear and

360
00:28:48,700 --> 00:28:53,560
vertex. But behind those
technical words was a reality

361
00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:58,840
that was impossible to detach
from out of respect for Jasmine

362
00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:02,100
and her family. We won't be
sharing all of this audio,

363
00:29:02,460 --> 00:29:07,680
however, I will share this.
Jasmine was stabbed 60 times

364
00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:15,840
across her scalp, face, neck,
upper back, chest, shoulder, arm

365
00:29:16,020 --> 00:29:21,380
and torso, with the exception of
her free left hand, every single

366
00:29:21,380 --> 00:29:27,260
wound was concentrated on the
right side of her body. One of

367
00:29:27,260 --> 00:29:30,920
the most chilling details the
blade of the knife Jason Chen

368
00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:35,240
used snapped when it struck one
of Jasmine's ribs, breaking off

369
00:29:35,240 --> 00:29:39,680
inside of her chest. Dr Cogswell
discovered it lodged between two

370
00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:44,260
ribs and penetrating deep inside
of her right lung. There was

371
00:29:44,260 --> 00:29:47,680
also evidence of blunt force,
impact to her chest, leaving a

372
00:29:47,680 --> 00:29:52,540
large contusion or bruise. Dr
Cogswell noted that this blow

373
00:29:52,540 --> 00:29:55,900
could have rendered Jasmine
unconscious or semi conscious,

374
00:29:56,140 --> 00:30:00,780
making it even harder for her to
fight back a. Occasionally there

375
00:30:00,780 --> 00:30:04,860
were abrasions and bruising on
the front of her neck, which,

376
00:30:04,860 --> 00:30:08,400
according to Cogswell, may
indicate manual strangulation,

377
00:30:08,700 --> 00:30:11,580
though it was not officially
documented in the autopsy

378
00:30:11,580 --> 00:30:16,800
report. This was not just an
attack, it was a prolonged,

379
00:30:16,800 --> 00:30:21,140
deliberate and brutal assault,
reflecting a level of calculated

380
00:30:21,140 --> 00:30:29,060
malice that is both shocking and
incomprehensible. By this point

381
00:30:29,060 --> 00:30:32,600
in the day, we had reached a
lunch break. Can you imagine

382
00:30:32,600 --> 00:30:36,020
breaking for lunch after this,
sitting through the forensic

383
00:30:36,020 --> 00:30:40,600
breakdown of 60 stab wounds, a
broken knife lodged in Jasmine's

384
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:45,160
lung and evidence of blunt force
trauma, and then stepping

385
00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:53,740
outside to grab a sandwich,
somehow we all managed. What was

386
00:30:53,740 --> 00:30:56,800
interesting to learn after the
trial was that while court was

387
00:30:56,800 --> 00:31:00,540
adjourned during this particular
afternoon, breaking news was

388
00:31:00,540 --> 00:31:04,140
already hitting the media.
Here's news channel nine's

389
00:31:04,140 --> 00:31:07,380
latricia Thomas sharing this
development during the live

390
00:31:07,380 --> 00:31:09,300
stream as we broke for lunch.

391
00:31:11,940 --> 00:31:16,200
But actually, I do want to pause
here and go away from our normal

392
00:31:16,200 --> 00:31:19,500
structure to talk about some
breaking news that was just into

393
00:31:19,500 --> 00:31:23,960
our newsroom moments before we
broke for lunch here, and that

394
00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:29,300
is a wrongful death lawsuit has
been filed by Jasmine paces

395
00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:35,600
family against Jason Chen and
his parents. Now we have not

396
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:39,980
heard them implicated by facing
criminal charges in this case,

397
00:31:39,980 --> 00:31:44,260
but we now know that in
November, attorney Ben McGowan,

398
00:31:44,260 --> 00:31:47,740
who is representing the pace
family, filed a wrongful death

399
00:31:47,740 --> 00:31:51,820
lawsuit some of the things that
it claims here that there was

400
00:31:51,820 --> 00:31:56,920
criminal conspiracy between
Jason Chen and his parents. They

401
00:31:56,920 --> 00:32:00,540
claim the family helped him to
cover up the murder and then

402
00:32:00,540 --> 00:32:04,260
harbored him at their
nolensville, Tennessee home

403
00:32:04,380 --> 00:32:07,800
while police were looking to
arrest him. This lawsuit is

404
00:32:07,800 --> 00:32:12,780
looking for $17 million our web
team right now is working on

405
00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:16,500
getting that lawsuit and more
details of it onto our website,

406
00:32:16,740 --> 00:32:18,240
News Channel nine.com, you

407
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:28,880
the defense began their cross
examination, pressing Dr

408
00:32:28,880 --> 00:32:33,080
Cogswell on a critical question,
could the autopsy determine

409
00:32:33,080 --> 00:32:38,000
whether Jasmine was unconscious
during the attack? Dr Cogswell

410
00:32:38,000 --> 00:32:42,520
remained firm while his findings
were extensive and detailed, he

411
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:46,000
explained that an autopsy can't
answer every question about

412
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:50,320
Jasmine's state in that moment,
whether she was fully conscious,

413
00:32:50,380 --> 00:32:54,520
semi conscious or unconscious at
the time of the stabbing remains

414
00:32:54,580 --> 00:32:55,480
unknown. At the end

415
00:32:58,060 --> 00:33:02,820
of your testimony, there, you
talk about how long Jasmine pace

416
00:33:02,820 --> 00:33:05,640
might have been along. Well,
it's kind of like more than

417
00:33:05,640 --> 00:33:12,060
three seconds, but

418
00:33:13,080 --> 00:33:17,760
that's the kind of death that
the title of the consciousness

419
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:18,480
could be different.

420
00:33:19,620 --> 00:33:23,120
Well, in fact, she may have been
unconscious before she was

421
00:33:23,360 --> 00:33:27,620
stabbed. There's no way to tell
that from an autopsy, but if

422
00:33:27,620 --> 00:33:32,960
we're talking about just
bleeding roughly half of that

423
00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:37,520
time period, she would be
potentially conscious

424
00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:44,680
when proceedings resume, Dr
Cogswell returns to discuss the

425
00:33:44,680 --> 00:33:49,060
toxicology report. He explains
that Jasmine's heart and major

426
00:33:49,060 --> 00:33:53,140
blood vessels were nearly empty
of blood, and notably, no

427
00:33:53,140 --> 00:33:56,740
alcohol was detected, despite
claims that wine had been

428
00:33:56,740 --> 00:34:00,360
consumed on the night of her
murder. Here's latricia Thomas

429
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:01,860
of News Channel Nine again,

430
00:34:02,940 --> 00:34:06,180
let's take a look quickly at one
thing that has kind of become

431
00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:11,340
center stage here, and that is
the toxicology report from

432
00:34:11,400 --> 00:34:15,720
Jasmine paces autopsy. Dr
Cogswell, the one doing the

433
00:34:15,720 --> 00:34:19,380
autopsy on Jasmine paces body
after she was found in that

434
00:34:19,380 --> 00:34:23,960
suitcase on the side of suck
Creek Road. One thing, and to

435
00:34:23,960 --> 00:34:28,580
understand why there's so many
questions about this toxicology

436
00:34:28,580 --> 00:34:32,300
report, you have to go back to
the opening statements by the

437
00:34:32,300 --> 00:34:36,260
defense. So if you'll remember
the defense attorney Joshua

438
00:34:36,260 --> 00:34:39,860
Weiss came out and said, We're
not going to waste your time. We

439
00:34:39,860 --> 00:34:44,500
admit that Jason Chen killed
Jasmine pace, but instead of it

440
00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:48,160
being a premeditated murder,
which is what the prosecution is

441
00:34:48,160 --> 00:34:52,300
claiming, they want the jury to
believe that this was a crime of

442
00:34:52,300 --> 00:34:56,620
passion, and they say this all
was sparked when Jasmine pace

443
00:34:56,620 --> 00:35:02,400
saw text messages come in to
Jay. Jason's phone, and then she

444
00:35:02,400 --> 00:35:06,420
got very angry. They said they
were together drinking wine.

445
00:35:06,420 --> 00:35:09,660
They they mentioned the wine in
the opening statements several,

446
00:35:09,660 --> 00:35:14,160
several times. They said, when
Jasmine pace went in the kitchen

447
00:35:14,160 --> 00:35:18,180
to get a second bottle of wine,
she heard those text messages

448
00:35:18,180 --> 00:35:23,720
come in. They say she then went
at him with a wine bottle. He

449
00:35:23,780 --> 00:35:28,280
kicked her to get her to move
back, which she fell upon some

450
00:35:28,280 --> 00:35:33,440
wine glasses, and then tried to
attack Jason Chen with that

451
00:35:33,440 --> 00:35:38,180
broken wine glass. Now why is
that important? Well, today it

452
00:35:38,180 --> 00:35:41,800
becomes important that narrative
that the Defense says that they

453
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,420
will try to prove when it's
their term, because now we see

454
00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:51,580
the blood tests of Jasmine pace
that have been introduced by her

455
00:35:51,580 --> 00:35:55,900
autopsy report that she, in
fact, did not have alcohol in

456
00:35:55,900 --> 00:35:56,740
her system.

457
00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:02,880
As Dr Cogswell continues his
testimony. Moyo guides him

458
00:36:02,880 --> 00:36:08,220
through the details of Jasmine's
injuries. Dr Cogswell reiterates

459
00:36:08,220 --> 00:36:10,920
that her injuries are consistent
with being in the fetal

460
00:36:10,920 --> 00:36:15,480
position, a posture that made it
easier for her body to be forced

461
00:36:15,480 --> 00:36:21,080
into a confined space during the
attack. I want to pause here and

462
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:24,620
share something from my
perspective as a juror, one

463
00:36:24,620 --> 00:36:28,220
wound that stood out to me was a
deep gash on Jasmine's left

464
00:36:28,220 --> 00:36:33,440
forearm. Remember, this was her
free arm. I couldn't tell if it

465
00:36:33,440 --> 00:36:37,040
came from a single strike or if
the knife had hit the same spot

466
00:36:37,040 --> 00:36:41,140
over and over, but it was clear
to me that this was a defensive

467
00:36:41,140 --> 00:36:45,640
wound. It looked as if Jasmine
had instinctively raised her arm

468
00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:49,300
to shield her face and head from
the repeated blows of the knife.

469
00:36:50,560 --> 00:36:53,440
My producer and I have spent a
lot of time piecing together

470
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:57,280
what we know about this attack,
trying to understand how Jasmine

471
00:36:57,280 --> 00:37:02,280
was restrained and what happened
inside that apartment. What

472
00:37:02,280 --> 00:37:06,720
stands out to me is the
haphazard way she was cuffed. It

473
00:37:06,720 --> 00:37:10,740
was a tangled, almost desperate
arrangement, like they were put

474
00:37:10,740 --> 00:37:15,780
on in the middle of a fight. In
my opinion, Jason Chen wasn't

475
00:37:15,780 --> 00:37:18,900
methodically restraining
Jasmine. He was trying to gain

476
00:37:18,900 --> 00:37:23,060
control of her, trying to keep
her from kicking, fighting and

477
00:37:23,060 --> 00:37:27,800
ultimately getting away. And now
the autopsy photos confirmed it.

478
00:37:27,920 --> 00:37:31,760
Jasmine was in the fetal
position during the attack, and

479
00:37:31,760 --> 00:37:35,060
I'm bringing it up again because
it's crucial to understanding

480
00:37:35,060 --> 00:37:39,320
the wounds themselves. If she
had been in any other position,

481
00:37:39,500 --> 00:37:43,060
the injuries would have been
scattered across her body, but

482
00:37:43,060 --> 00:37:47,380
instead, every single stab wound
was concentrated in one small

483
00:37:47,380 --> 00:37:52,720
area her upper right side. That
kind of concentrated violence,

484
00:37:53,080 --> 00:37:58,180
it says something. It tells us
this wasn't random, it wasn't

485
00:37:58,180 --> 00:38:04,200
chaotic, it was intentional.
When I close my eyes at night, I

486
00:38:04,200 --> 00:38:07,980
can't help but visualize how
this happened, trying to piece

487
00:38:07,980 --> 00:38:12,060
together the moments leading up
to Jasmine's death. I'm certain

488
00:38:12,060 --> 00:38:15,900
I'm not alone in this. Anyone
who's seen these photos, the

489
00:38:15,900 --> 00:38:20,720
investigators, attorneys, Judge,
Patterson, Dr Cogswell, my

490
00:38:20,720 --> 00:38:25,280
fellow jurors, and especially
Jasmine's family, they all

491
00:38:25,280 --> 00:38:30,200
likely confront similar visions,
yet the only person who truly

492
00:38:30,200 --> 00:38:32,540
knows what happened is Jason
Chen.

493
00:38:40,820 --> 00:38:43,660
Here's what we've put together
based on the evidence presented

494
00:38:43,660 --> 00:38:47,080
thus far. Though I want to be
clear that these are my own

495
00:38:47,080 --> 00:38:51,640
theories, not necessarily facts.
We know that Jasmine went to

496
00:38:51,640 --> 00:38:55,840
Jason's apartment by choice on
November 22 arriving at 11:42pm

497
00:38:57,820 --> 00:39:01,020
she was there for over two hours
before things went terribly

498
00:39:01,020 --> 00:39:06,180
wrong on day six of the trial,
Jason's downstairs neighbor will

499
00:39:06,180 --> 00:39:09,660
testify that she heard a woman
scream coming from his apartment

500
00:39:09,660 --> 00:39:14,640
at 2:11am, on the early hours of
November 23 followed by the

501
00:39:14,640 --> 00:39:18,180
sound of chasing movement from
the back bedroom toward the

502
00:39:18,180 --> 00:39:23,120
front door. Then she heard the
front door slam seven minutes

503
00:39:23,120 --> 00:39:27,980
after that scream at 2:18am,
Jasmine sends a pin drop

504
00:39:27,980 --> 00:39:33,680
location to her mother, Katrina
bean, not a text, not a call, a

505
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:38,420
location pin, that detail haunts
me. I've thought about how

506
00:39:38,420 --> 00:39:42,460
sending a location pin works.
It's not the most instinctive

507
00:39:42,460 --> 00:39:46,360
thing to do under stress, but
it's gotten easier to do in the

508
00:39:46,360 --> 00:39:50,560
last couple of years on an
iPhone, which Jasmine had at the

509
00:39:50,560 --> 00:39:55,000
time. It used to require users
to open Apple Maps, Search the

510
00:39:55,000 --> 00:39:59,260
location and then drop a pin
manually, but now all you have

511
00:39:59,260 --> 00:40:03,180
to do is. Open your text message
app, click the plus sign next to

512
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:09,000
the text field, scroll down to
location and hit send. Still,

513
00:40:09,180 --> 00:40:13,200
why a location pin to me, it
feels like she didn't have time

514
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:17,760
to type a message, as if this
was all she could do. Her way of

515
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:26,420
saying, Mom, this is where I am.
You. I've come to realize that

516
00:40:26,420 --> 00:40:30,140
when people lie, they often
weave in parts of the truth.

517
00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:34,760
It's like they can't help but
sprinkle in bits of reality, and

518
00:40:34,760 --> 00:40:38,060
they'll almost always cast
themselves as the victim, not

519
00:40:38,060 --> 00:40:42,400
the one responsible for the harm
done. That's why the defense's

520
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,220
story during their opening
statement, stuck with me.

521
00:40:46,060 --> 00:40:50,440
According to them, Jasmine was
the aggressor chasing Jason, and

522
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:54,520
Jason was the one running from
her. They painted this almost

523
00:40:54,520 --> 00:40:58,360
comical scene of Jason trying to
slam the bathroom door shut,

524
00:40:58,420 --> 00:41:02,220
only to be foiled by the bath
mat. Then came the so called

525
00:41:02,220 --> 00:41:05,880
impossible pocket door to the
bedroom, as if this whole thing

526
00:41:05,880 --> 00:41:09,720
was some sitcom
misunderstanding. But what if

527
00:41:09,720 --> 00:41:12,900
that story held a kernel of
truth just with the roles

528
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:17,160
reversed? What if Jason was the
one chasing Jasmine through his

529
00:41:17,160 --> 00:41:22,340
apartment? I mentioned the
defense's first witness. She was

530
00:41:22,340 --> 00:41:26,300
the neighbor living in apartment
110 directly below Jason's unit.

531
00:41:26,900 --> 00:41:30,500
Although her testimony aimed to
support the defense, she

532
00:41:30,500 --> 00:41:35,360
inadvertently helped clarify the
time of the attack. Remember, at

533
00:41:35,360 --> 00:41:39,500
2:11am, she was jolted awake by
a woman's scream from the

534
00:41:39,500 --> 00:41:43,360
apartment above. Following this,
she described hearing sounds of

535
00:41:43,360 --> 00:41:46,420
someone being chased from the
bedroom to the front door,

536
00:41:46,720 --> 00:41:51,400
culminating in the sharp Slam of
the door itself. Something

537
00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:56,020
provoked Jasmine's fear.
Something made her scream. Maybe

538
00:41:56,020 --> 00:41:59,680
she was trying to get out of
there. Maybe Jason was behind

539
00:41:59,680 --> 00:42:02,700
her, and before she could make
it out the front door, he

540
00:42:02,700 --> 00:42:06,120
slammed it shut. Did she turn
back toward the bedroom in a

541
00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:10,380
panic? Did she try to barricade
herself in the bathroom, only to

542
00:42:10,380 --> 00:42:14,820
be tripped up by the bath mat?
And was it Jasmine, not Jason

543
00:42:15,000 --> 00:42:18,000
desperately trying to pull that
pocket door closed between the

544
00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:23,960
bathroom and the bedroom?
Remember, at 2:18am, just seven

545
00:42:23,960 --> 00:42:27,080
minutes after that scream,
Jasmine sends her mom the

546
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,960
location pin, that tiny Act says
so much things were bad. She

547
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:37,460
knew she needed help. And I
can't stop wondering, when in

548
00:42:37,460 --> 00:42:40,900
those terrifying moments, did
Jason retrieve the handcuffs and

549
00:42:40,900 --> 00:42:45,880
shackles. Was it before or after
that text was sent? Could

550
00:42:45,880 --> 00:42:49,360
Jasmine have made it back to the
bathroom just barely closing the

551
00:42:49,360 --> 00:42:52,960
door, buying herself a few
precious seconds to send her

552
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:59,800
location? I keep picturing her
leaning against that wall, maybe

553
00:42:59,800 --> 00:43:04,320
sitting on the floor, bracing
for whatever came next. Given

554
00:43:04,320 --> 00:43:07,560
the layout of the bathroom, it
could make sense that her left

555
00:43:07,560 --> 00:43:11,580
side was against the wall with
Jason towering above her,

556
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:15,540
especially when you consider the
pattern of stab wounds to her

557
00:43:15,540 --> 00:43:20,840
scalp, face, shoulders and her
free hand. We know there was a

558
00:43:20,840 --> 00:43:23,900
pool of blood in the bathroom,
some of it crossing the

559
00:43:23,900 --> 00:43:27,380
threshold into the bedroom.
There was blood spatter on the

560
00:43:27,380 --> 00:43:30,980
wall, smears on the door,
frames, all of it painting a

561
00:43:30,980 --> 00:43:36,020
chilling picture of violence in
a confined space. And that leads

562
00:43:36,020 --> 00:43:38,060
us to one of the biggest
questions raised in the

563
00:43:38,060 --> 00:43:41,620
courtroom. Was Jasmine already
cuffed when she was being

564
00:43:41,620 --> 00:43:46,120
stabbed, or as the defense
claimed, were the restraints

565
00:43:46,120 --> 00:43:49,480
only used after her death to
make her body fit into the trash

566
00:43:49,480 --> 00:43:55,120
bags. We know her right wrist
was handcuffed to the inside of

567
00:43:55,120 --> 00:43:59,200
her left ankle, and her right
elbow was shackled to her right

568
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,140
ankle, leaving her left arm
completely free. Now try to

569
00:44:04,140 --> 00:44:07,740
picture her left side pressed
against the bathroom floor, her

570
00:44:07,740 --> 00:44:11,220
right arm threaded between her
legs and bound to her ankles,

571
00:44:11,460 --> 00:44:15,780
some kind of cruel game of
Twister it's almost impossible

572
00:44:15,780 --> 00:44:21,920
to imagine, actually, let alone
endure. Then there's the blood

573
00:44:21,920 --> 00:44:25,520
evidence found in Jason's
bedroom. Remember the massive,

574
00:44:25,520 --> 00:44:29,960
five foot stain on the carpet?
That stain tells us her body was

575
00:44:29,960 --> 00:44:33,440
likely moved after the attack,
or at the very least, the

576
00:44:33,440 --> 00:44:36,560
violence ended there before she
was put inside the trash bags

577
00:44:36,560 --> 00:44:40,780
and eventually into the
suitcase. This is the picture

578
00:44:40,780 --> 00:44:45,160
we're left with, pieced together
from evidence, testimony and

579
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:49,960
what we can only imagine,
Jasmine endured that night. We'd

580
00:44:49,960 --> 00:44:53,080
love to hear your thoughts on
this. If you've been following

581
00:44:53,080 --> 00:44:56,140
the case or have your own
theories, we'd love to hear

582
00:44:56,140 --> 00:45:00,240
them. Send us an email at
sequesteredpod, at. Mail.com,

583
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:08,880
before the medical examiner
stepped down from the stand, the

584
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:12,660
jurors had a chance to ask their
own questions. It's something

585
00:45:12,660 --> 00:45:15,180
we've mentioned before, but it's
worth repeating because it's

586
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:19,440
pretty rare. Not every judge
allows this, but judge Patterson

587
00:45:19,440 --> 00:45:22,880
does, and it gave us the
opportunity to clarify facts

588
00:45:22,880 --> 00:45:26,300
directly from the witnesses in
real time, rather than saving

589
00:45:26,300 --> 00:45:30,200
them for the deliberation phase.
I also think it gave the

590
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:34,160
courtroom, more specifically the
attorneys, a unique window into

591
00:45:34,160 --> 00:45:38,480
what the jury was really curious
about throughout the trial. On

592
00:45:38,480 --> 00:45:41,500
this particular day, our
questions covered everything

593
00:45:41,500 --> 00:45:43,660
from whether cleaning agents
could have altered the

594
00:45:43,660 --> 00:45:47,440
appearance of Jasmine's wounds
to whether any fibers or

595
00:45:47,440 --> 00:45:52,360
fingerprints were recovered from
the scene. Dr Cogswell responded

596
00:45:52,360 --> 00:45:55,840
to each one, even opening the
door to the possibility that a

597
00:45:55,840 --> 00:45:59,260
second knife could have been
used, though he stopped short of

598
00:45:59,260 --> 00:46:03,840
any firm conclusions we thought
it might be interesting to share

599
00:46:03,840 --> 00:46:07,320
a couple of the jury's actual
questions with you, so that you

600
00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:10,260
can get a sense of what was on
our minds as we work to piece

601
00:46:10,260 --> 00:46:11,460
everything together. The

602
00:46:12,540 --> 00:46:15,900
jury has some questions for you.
I'll ask him if he faced a jury

603
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:23,000
with handling CSU use blue star
agent that revealed blood in

604
00:46:23,060 --> 00:46:26,060
other locations of the
apartment. Based on your

605
00:46:26,060 --> 00:46:30,080
autopsy, can you say that the
victim's injuries may have

606
00:46:30,080 --> 00:46:32,000
occurred in more than just a
single bed?

607
00:46:33,500 --> 00:46:37,280
Yes, they could have, if you
actually think the most likely

608
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:42,280
is that the injuries were
inflicted in the position in

609
00:46:42,280 --> 00:46:47,020
which she was found. That does
not preclude some of those

610
00:46:47,020 --> 00:46:50,440
injuries being inflicted
elsewhere in the apartment, or

611
00:46:50,500 --> 00:46:56,140
that when providing was being
moved, that some blood leaked

612
00:46:56,140 --> 00:46:59,200
out was found elsewhere in the
apartment.

613
00:47:00,340 --> 00:47:04,020
Are you able to identify any of
the wounds were cleaned with

614
00:47:04,080 --> 00:47:09,900
peroxide or alcohol? No, I'm
not. Would you be able to

615
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:13,920
identify if the carpet fibers
were found in any of the wounds

616
00:47:14,040 --> 00:47:16,500
inflicted on the body or
anywhere on

617
00:47:17,700 --> 00:47:22,640
the I found no carpet fibers in
the wounds themselves, some

618
00:47:22,640 --> 00:47:28,040
hairs were recovered off of her
clothing and her body. Those

619
00:47:28,040 --> 00:47:34,940
were all submitted to Kennedy's.
PD, as to what the test results

620
00:47:34,940 --> 00:47:35,840
showed, I don't know.

621
00:47:37,160 --> 00:47:40,480
Does it appear that all of them
were inflicted by the same

622
00:47:40,480 --> 00:47:40,660
knife?

623
00:47:42,040 --> 00:47:46,540
It is certainly likely, but it
is not possible, that a second

624
00:47:46,600 --> 00:47:54,100
knife was used. However, the
dimensions of the wounds don't

625
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:59,020
say categorically, this is two
knives, so there, there's going

626
00:47:59,020 --> 00:48:02,760
to have to be some overlap. For
example, a significantly smaller

627
00:48:02,760 --> 00:48:07,320
knife, or a pocket knife, would
not be involved in

628
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,960
this does amount of blood
collected impact percentages as

629
00:48:13,020 --> 00:48:17,220
a result of contested IE, very
small amount collected with more

630
00:48:17,220 --> 00:48:18,780
blood confirmed more accurate

631
00:48:18,780 --> 00:48:23,360
results? No, the amount of blood
collected is sufficient to run

632
00:48:23,360 --> 00:48:27,860
the test. If it's an
insufficient quantity, then the

633
00:48:27,860 --> 00:48:32,240
toxicology lab will tell us not
sufficient to run the test. We

634
00:48:32,240 --> 00:48:36,680
suggest doing targeted testing.
For this, they actually don't

635
00:48:36,680 --> 00:48:40,180
need anywhere near the amount of
blood we give them. They can

636
00:48:40,180 --> 00:48:45,340
actually make do with two
milliliters of blood. He usually

637
00:48:45,340 --> 00:48:48,880
set a 10 milli or two, but as
you saw in this particular case,

638
00:48:49,060 --> 00:48:51,520
it was just under six
milliliters. So there was plenty

639
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:56,740
of blood, more blood would not
actually change the results,

640
00:48:56,740 --> 00:48:56,860
though,

641
00:48:59,320 --> 00:49:03,060
the prosecution briefly recalls
crime scene investigator Kristen

642
00:49:03,060 --> 00:49:07,080
Schubert to the stand. Schubert
is asked about the two sanitary

643
00:49:07,080 --> 00:49:11,280
pads collected as evidence, one
recovered from Jasmine's body,

644
00:49:11,460 --> 00:49:14,160
and the other found outside the
dumpster at Jason Chen's

645
00:49:14,160 --> 00:49:18,780
apartment complex. Since neither
pad was tested, we can't say

646
00:49:18,780 --> 00:49:21,920
with certainty that they're a
match, but Schubert describes

647
00:49:21,920 --> 00:49:29,240
the similarity between them as
striking. Next, the jury hears

648
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:33,140
from Kim Lau, a special agent
and forensic scientist with the

649
00:49:33,140 --> 00:49:38,000
Tennessee Bureau of
Investigation, or TBI, garnering

650
00:49:38,000 --> 00:49:41,620
over 20 years of experience,
Agent Lau is straightforward

651
00:49:41,620 --> 00:49:45,220
about the limitations her lab
faces, including a six month

652
00:49:45,220 --> 00:49:48,580
backlog and a policy that
restricts testing to just 10

653
00:49:48,580 --> 00:49:53,920
items per homicide case. Agent
Lau then walks the jury through

654
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,420
what was tested swabs from Jason
Chen and Jasmine's parents

655
00:49:58,480 --> 00:50:02,940
Jasmine's toothbrush and. Carpet
from Jason Chen's apartment. Her

656
00:50:02,940 --> 00:50:06,900
testimony confirms several key
points. The blood found in Jason

657
00:50:06,900 --> 00:50:11,100
Chen's apartment matches
Jasmine's DNA swabs from the

658
00:50:11,100 --> 00:50:14,700
shackles handcuffs and even the
garbage bags linked back to

659
00:50:14,700 --> 00:50:19,080
Jason and some evidence, like a
swab from the suitcase handle

660
00:50:19,140 --> 00:50:23,600
came back inconclusive under
cross examination, Agent Lau

661
00:50:23,600 --> 00:50:26,900
explains that not every piece of
evidence could be tested due to

662
00:50:26,900 --> 00:50:31,340
limited resources, and when
jurors ask who decides which 10

663
00:50:31,400 --> 00:50:36,320
items actually get tested, she's
clear the decision is hers based

664
00:50:36,320 --> 00:50:39,920
on proximity to the crime and
the likelihood of finding DNA

665
00:50:39,920 --> 00:50:40,660
evidence

666
00:50:47,440 --> 00:50:52,240
by the time court adjourns for
the day, it's almost 7pm judge

667
00:50:52,240 --> 00:50:55,300
Patterson reminds the jurors of
their obligation not to be

668
00:50:55,300 --> 00:50:58,960
exposed to the media or to speak
to each other about the trial.

669
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:03,120
Then instructs us to return at
10am the next morning, giving

670
00:51:03,120 --> 00:51:06,780
everyone a chance to catch their
breath after a long, heavy day,

671
00:51:08,100 --> 00:51:12,420
the evidence, expert testimonies
and even the jurors, specific

672
00:51:12,420 --> 00:51:16,080
questions have left us all with
as many uncertainties as

673
00:51:16,080 --> 00:51:20,360
clarifications, which feels like
A perfect reflection of the case

674
00:51:20,360 --> 00:51:25,580
itself. Nothing is simple,
nothing is clear cut, and with

675
00:51:25,580 --> 00:51:29,420
every new detail, the truth
feels both closer and further

676
00:51:29,420 --> 00:51:35,180
away as we conclude day four of
this trial for Jasmine pace, the

677
00:51:35,180 --> 00:51:39,500
profound weight of today's
revelations lingers heavily the

678
00:51:39,500 --> 00:51:43,120
meticulous forensic analysis
presented by the state's expert

679
00:51:43,120 --> 00:51:47,740
witness, Dr Steven Cogswell, not
only detailed the horrifying

680
00:51:47,740 --> 00:51:51,700
injuries Jasmine endured, but
also illuminated the calculated

681
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:55,780
nature of the violence she
faced. Each piece of evidence

682
00:51:55,840 --> 00:51:59,980
and every expert insight adds
layers to a narrative that is

683
00:51:59,980 --> 00:52:04,440
anything but straightforward. As
jurors, we are tasked with

684
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,520
navigating this intricate web,
seeking clarity amidst the

685
00:52:08,520 --> 00:52:14,460
ambiguity, yet with every detail
unveiled, the elusive nature of

686
00:52:14,460 --> 00:52:18,540
truth becomes even more
apparent, reminding us of the

687
00:52:18,540 --> 00:52:22,580
profound responsibility we bear
in our pursuit of justice.

688
00:52:28,520 --> 00:52:31,940
Next week on sequestered and the
two prints

689
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:37,640
of quality to examine from that
garbage bag around the body of

690
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:39,920
Jasmine pace were made by WHO,
made by Jason the

691
00:52:41,900 --> 00:52:42,760
prince of value,

692
00:52:44,680 --> 00:52:48,160
the prints that were not a value
that you received or this you

693
00:52:48,160 --> 00:52:51,580
were able to extract from the
other bags, they were

694
00:52:54,340 --> 00:52:58,180
fingerprints, phone records and
surveillance footage weave

695
00:52:58,180 --> 00:53:02,880
together A chilling timeline,
one that may seal Jason Chen's

696
00:53:02,880 --> 00:53:07,740
fate. Thanks for sticking with
us. If today's episode resonated

697
00:53:07,740 --> 00:53:11,760
with you, please subscribe.
Leave a review and share it with

698
00:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,640
friends. We'll see you next
week.

699
00:53:22,860 --> 00:53:43,720
You I thank you for listening to
sequestered a juror's

700
00:53:43,720 --> 00:53:47,500
perspective on the murder trial
for Jasmine. Pace. Each episode

701
00:53:47,500 --> 00:53:50,140
brings us closer to
understanding the trial, the

702
00:53:50,140 --> 00:53:53,920
people involved, and the weight
of seeking justice. If this

703
00:53:53,920 --> 00:53:57,880
story speaks to you, please
follow, share and continue the

704
00:53:57,880 --> 00:54:01,740
conversation with us. Jasmine's
story deserves to be remembered.

705
00:54:04,620 --> 00:54:09,300
This is a BP production. The
show is written, edited and

706
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:14,100
produced by me Sarah Reed, with
CO production by Andrea Kleid.

707
00:54:14,820 --> 00:54:18,180
News clips featured in this
episode were sourced from wtbc

708
00:54:18,180 --> 00:54:22,040
News Channel Nine local three
news Chattanooga and the law and

709
00:54:22,040 --> 00:54:26,000
crime network, music and sound
design are curated to reflect

710
00:54:26,000 --> 00:54:29,480
the gravity and sensitivity of
this story, and with the intent

711
00:54:29,480 --> 00:54:33,200
to honor Jasmine, her family and
the community affected by her

712
00:54:33,200 --> 00:54:37,340
death. For more information or
to connect with us, visit

713
00:54:37,340 --> 00:54:41,920
sequestered pod.com or follow us
on Instagram at sequestered pot.

714
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:47,080
Thank you for listening until
next time, stay curious and stay

715
00:54:47,080 --> 00:54:47,380
safe. You.