BONUS EPISODE: Behind the Mic and Beyond the Verdict

1
00:00:00,360 --> 00:00:04,500
Hey, friend, I know how this
feels, waking up exhausted after

2
00:00:04,500 --> 00:00:08,100
multiple trips to the bathroom
and feeling embarrassed by

3
00:00:08,100 --> 00:00:12,180
sudden leaks. I used to be
constantly on edge, searching

4
00:00:12,180 --> 00:00:15,960
for a restroom whenever I was
out. Then I discovered better

5
00:00:15,960 --> 00:00:20,220
woman. I was skeptical at first,
but two months in, everything

6
00:00:20,220 --> 00:00:25,460
changed. I experienced improved
bladder control, no more heart

7
00:00:25,460 --> 00:00:29,180
stopping, moments when I laugh
or sneeze, less urge to go

8
00:00:29,300 --> 00:00:33,980
deeper and more restful sleep. I
finally felt like myself again,

9
00:00:34,160 --> 00:00:38,360
confident and in control.
Better. Woman is natural,

10
00:00:38,420 --> 00:00:42,460
effective, clinically tested and
trusted by women for over 25

11
00:00:42,700 --> 00:00:46,900
years. Ready to take back your
control? Head over to be better

12
00:00:46,900 --> 00:00:50,740
now.com. To order your supply
today. That's be better now.com.

13
00:00:51,460 --> 00:00:53,980
These statements have not been
evaluated by the FDA. This

14
00:00:53,980 --> 00:00:56,680
product is not intended to
diagnose, treat, cure or prevent

15
00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,740
any disease. Uses directed
Individual results may vary.

16
00:01:02,860 --> 00:01:06,780
You Hey everyone, welcome to
this special bonus episode of

17
00:01:06,780 --> 00:01:11,400
sequestered. I'm Sarah, and this
is my co producer, Andrea. Hey

18
00:01:11,400 --> 00:01:14,460
everyone, whether you've been
with us since the very beginning

19
00:01:14,520 --> 00:01:17,940
or just found us thanks to
Dateline or the Apple podcast

20
00:01:17,940 --> 00:01:21,920
feature, we're so glad you're
here. Yes, and this has been a

21
00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:26,900
wild few months, hasn't it? It
has. We've heard from so many of

22
00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:31,220
you, listeners and journalists
and survivors, yes, even people

23
00:01:31,220 --> 00:01:34,760
connected to the trial, and
we've realized there were still

24
00:01:34,760 --> 00:01:38,660
a few stories left to tell,
things that didn't quite make it

25
00:01:38,660 --> 00:01:41,920
into the main episodes and
moments we just wanted to sit

26
00:01:41,920 --> 00:01:46,120
with a little longer. So today's
episode is a bit different, just

27
00:01:46,120 --> 00:01:49,780
the two of us having a candid
conversation and we'll reflect

28
00:01:49,780 --> 00:01:52,720
on the making of the podcast.
We'll share some behind the

29
00:01:52,720 --> 00:01:56,200
scenes moments, and we'll talk
about what it was like to be a

30
00:01:56,200 --> 00:01:59,980
part of Dateline. We'll even
explore a few case details that

31
00:01:59,980 --> 00:02:03,480
didn't make it into season one.
Yes, and a heads up, you'll also

32
00:02:03,480 --> 00:02:06,960
hear us refer to Jasmine as
jazzy throughout the episode.

33
00:02:07,500 --> 00:02:10,320
That's what her friends and
family called her, and in the

34
00:02:10,320 --> 00:02:14,040
courtroom, we really only knew
her as Jasmine. So now that

35
00:02:14,040 --> 00:02:17,280
we've spent so much time with
her story, we want to think of

36
00:02:17,280 --> 00:02:21,560
her as jazzy too. So grab a
coffee, take a walk, settle in

37
00:02:21,560 --> 00:02:25,400
whatever you do while you listen
and join us for this behind the

38
00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:29,180
mic conversation about
sequestered and jazzy and

39
00:02:29,180 --> 00:02:30,380
everything in between you

40
00:02:56,560 --> 00:03:00,840
music, okay, let's start at The
beginning, how this whole thing

41
00:03:00,840 --> 00:03:06,180
came to be, yeah, so while the
trial unfolded in the courtroom,

42
00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,900
another story was quietly being
formed in the background, and

43
00:03:10,140 --> 00:03:14,820
that was the story of how we'd
eventually tell it, right, okay?

44
00:03:14,820 --> 00:03:17,640
And to be honest, I didn't
exactly set out to become a

45
00:03:17,640 --> 00:03:22,760
juror or a true crime podcaster
for that, but here we are.

46
00:03:24,860 --> 00:03:27,740
Okay, so let's talk about how
sequestered came to life, like

47
00:03:27,740 --> 00:03:31,220
what surprised us most while
creating it, and how it's

48
00:03:31,220 --> 00:03:35,360
changed us along the way. Okay,
great. I mean, it's one thing to

49
00:03:35,360 --> 00:03:39,020
say, like, this should be a
podcast, and another thing to

50
00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:42,340
make it as quickly as we did,
that's the first thing that

51
00:03:42,340 --> 00:03:46,300
comes to mind, right? Like, what
made this release so unique was

52
00:03:46,300 --> 00:03:50,140
that we had to move fast. Yeah,
we committed early on to the

53
00:03:50,140 --> 00:03:53,560
writing and producing of the
podcast in real time, in order

54
00:03:53,560 --> 00:03:56,440
to capture the details and
emotions of your experience

55
00:03:56,440 --> 00:04:00,540
while it was still fresh, right?
So we started basically as soon

56
00:04:00,540 --> 00:04:04,200
as you got back right? Yeah. And
what surprised me was how much I

57
00:04:04,200 --> 00:04:07,860
was still carrying like after
those 10 days in Chattanooga,

58
00:04:07,980 --> 00:04:11,700
right? I saw and heard things in
the courtroom that I hadn't,

59
00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,420
obviously not even begun to
process yet, yeah, but once you

60
00:04:15,420 --> 00:04:19,680
and I started mapping out the
episodes, it became super clear

61
00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:23,420
that this wasn't going to just
be about the trial like I wanted

62
00:04:23,420 --> 00:04:26,720
to tell Jasmine's story. Yes,
yes, that was something we

63
00:04:26,720 --> 00:04:29,720
committed to from the very
start. We didn't want this to

64
00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,800
feel like any sensationalized
True Crime thing, right? We

65
00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:37,340
wanted to honor jazzy's life
first, but we also wanted to

66
00:04:37,340 --> 00:04:41,740
show like what it feels like to
carry the responsibility of a

67
00:04:41,740 --> 00:04:46,480
juror on a murder trial deciding
someone else's fate. Yeah, and

68
00:04:46,720 --> 00:04:50,620
that's a tricky balance. I would
say yeah, we wanted to be

69
00:04:50,620 --> 00:04:55,600
honest, obviously, but not
exploitative. Yeah, we wanted to

70
00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:59,140
be detailed, but not graphic,
just for the sake of it, right?

71
00:04:59,380 --> 00:04:59,920
Like there were.

72
00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,060
A lot of moments where we where
you and I had to pause and say,

73
00:05:03,060 --> 00:05:06,540
Is this respectful? Yeah, does
this serve the story, or is it

74
00:05:06,540 --> 00:05:10,080
just our curiosity? You know,
right? Like that. That was

75
00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:13,620
something we came across a lot
of times, is, how do we tell

76
00:05:13,620 --> 00:05:18,000
this part of the story, right?
And now, seeing this story land

77
00:05:18,000 --> 00:05:22,340
on Dateline and being featured
on Apple podcasts. It's kind of

78
00:05:22,340 --> 00:05:26,660
surreal, like we made this in a
tiny room with one microphone, a

79
00:05:26,660 --> 00:05:29,960
lot of coffee and a whole bunch
of all nighters. That's true.

80
00:05:30,860 --> 00:05:35,240
It's wild, and it's just
emotional, because the more

81
00:05:35,240 --> 00:05:38,120
attention the podcast gets, the
more I think about Jasmine's mom

82
00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:42,220
and her family and the ripple
effect this case had on the

83
00:05:42,220 --> 00:05:46,300
community. And I just, I don't
know, I just hope we did her

84
00:05:46,300 --> 00:05:50,020
justice. Oh, I think you did.
And the response from listeners

85
00:05:50,020 --> 00:05:54,100
shows that people are connecting
to your voice, to your honesty,

86
00:05:54,340 --> 00:05:56,980
and most of all, to Jasmine
story, yeah.

87
00:05:58,360 --> 00:06:01,980
So fast forward a few months
after we launched the podcast,

88
00:06:02,220 --> 00:06:05,040
then came Dateline, yeah,

89
00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:10,260
that was not something I saw
coming. One Minute, I'm editing

90
00:06:10,260 --> 00:06:13,320
in my office, and the next thing
I know, I'm sitting across from

91
00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:17,880
Dateline producers with cameras
and lights in a retro hotel

92
00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:21,260
being asked to talk about one of
the most intense experiences of

93
00:06:21,260 --> 00:06:25,640
my life. That's true. I think
what struck me the most was how

94
00:06:25,640 --> 00:06:29,120
much the dateline team genuinely
cared about honoring Jasmine's

95
00:06:29,120 --> 00:06:32,960
life. Yeah, like they didn't
just want the crime details, you

96
00:06:32,960 --> 00:06:35,600
know, they wanted to understand
the people at the heart of it,

97
00:06:35,840 --> 00:06:39,620
yeah. I remember talking to a
couple of the producers, and it

98
00:06:39,620 --> 00:06:42,940
really felt like they had
theories of their own that they

99
00:06:42,940 --> 00:06:46,840
wanted to discuss with us,
right, right? So did being a

100
00:06:46,840 --> 00:06:50,140
part of that Dateline episode
bring you any kind of closure,

101
00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:55,420
or did it reopen things sort of
both? There was a part of me

102
00:06:55,420 --> 00:06:59,320
that felt really proud, like,
Okay, this story matters. People

103
00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:02,820
are listening, yeah, but it also
stirred stuff up, you know, like

104
00:07:02,820 --> 00:07:06,660
seeing crime scene photos again,
and yet here you are again,

105
00:07:06,660 --> 00:07:10,320
still telling jazzy story,
right? Because she deserves it,

106
00:07:10,500 --> 00:07:14,400
yeah. So I guess here's a good
place to say if you haven't seen

107
00:07:14,400 --> 00:07:17,940
the dateline episode about
Jasmine pace yet. It's called

108
00:07:17,940 --> 00:07:21,980
the pin at apartment 210 and you
can see it at Dateline, nbc.com,

109
00:07:22,580 --> 00:07:23,720
or on peacock.

110
00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:27,980
Okay, so let's shift gears and
talk about something we really

111
00:07:27,980 --> 00:07:31,520
haven't explored in depth, what
it's actually like to be inside

112
00:07:31,520 --> 00:07:35,540
that jury room and even just
like living in the head space

113
00:07:35,540 --> 00:07:38,480
that you were in for 10 days,
right?

114
00:07:39,560 --> 00:07:44,380
Yeah. I mean, it's kind of hard
to describe, but I'm sure

115
00:07:44,380 --> 00:07:47,080
everyone can imagine, like,
you're cut off from everything,

116
00:07:47,080 --> 00:07:51,460
your phone, the news, social
media, like your people, and

117
00:07:51,460 --> 00:07:55,180
during the day, you're absorbing
hours and hours of testimony,

118
00:07:55,180 --> 00:07:58,120
and then at night, you're just
alone with it in the silence of

119
00:07:58,120 --> 00:08:01,860
your room, right? That's what
I've always wondered, and we had

120
00:08:01,920 --> 00:08:04,320
a lot of people write in about
that. When you went back to your

121
00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:08,400
hotel room each night, you were
replaying that testimony, or

122
00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,400
were you just so completely
wiped that you were like, I need

123
00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:15,480
to rest, because they're
knocking on my door at 6am yeah,

124
00:08:16,320 --> 00:08:20,420
probably both. Again, some
nights I'd crash at like, the

125
00:08:20,420 --> 00:08:23,420
second I'd hit the bed, just
mentally drained from, like,

126
00:08:23,420 --> 00:08:26,840
listening to the intensity of it
all, yeah, but, but other

127
00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:30,200
nights, I couldn't turn it off.
Like I'd replay certain witness

128
00:08:30,200 --> 00:08:34,520
moments over and over, and I'd
hear Jasmine's mom's voice or

129
00:08:34,520 --> 00:08:39,440
the medical examiner's tone, or
just something Jason's defense

130
00:08:39,440 --> 00:08:42,700
said, that didn't sit right with
me, you know, right? And there

131
00:08:42,700 --> 00:08:46,240
was just no way not to carry it
with me. Yeah, I can't imagine.

132
00:08:46,240 --> 00:08:50,320
That makes sense. And I know you
said before, but it was hard not

133
00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,440
to look at Jason during those
days. Did you and Jason ever

134
00:08:53,440 --> 00:08:58,420
make eye contact? Yeah, a couple
of times. Well, I mean, I would

135
00:08:58,420 --> 00:09:02,100
say several times, wow. There
were definitely times, even

136
00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:06,420
during, like, jury selection in
Nashville, and multiple times

137
00:09:06,420 --> 00:09:08,880
during the trial that we made
eye contact

138
00:09:10,020 --> 00:09:13,560
because of my my seating
position in the jury box.

139
00:09:14,640 --> 00:09:17,760
It was always very obvious, like
when I would look at him,

140
00:09:17,760 --> 00:09:21,080
because I had to physically turn
my head to the left to see him.

141
00:09:21,740 --> 00:09:25,220
Oh, I see like to see him or the
courtroom. And it wasn't like I

142
00:09:25,220 --> 00:09:28,460
could just glance across the
room at him, yeah, so when I

143
00:09:28,460 --> 00:09:32,240
turned we couldn't help but make
eye contact. Wow, that had to

144
00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,520
feel intense. Yeah, it was
weird.

145
00:09:35,600 --> 00:09:38,600
Just the idea of like, knowing
you're sitting in the same room

146
00:09:38,600 --> 00:09:42,820
as someone who's admitted to
murdering someone, yeah, and

147
00:09:42,820 --> 00:09:45,520
then there's that moment you
talk about in the podcast where

148
00:09:45,520 --> 00:09:49,780
the medical examiner, Dr coswell
was on the stand. There were

149
00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:53,980
really graphic photos being
shown, and you noticed Jason was

150
00:09:53,980 --> 00:09:58,240
looking down, right? But then
you realize something else, can

151
00:09:58,240 --> 00:09:59,920
you share more about that you.

152
00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:03,180
Yeah, I know I talked a little
bit about this in the podcast.

153
00:10:03,660 --> 00:10:07,320
At first I thought, okay, maybe
he can't even look at what he

154
00:10:07,320 --> 00:10:10,500
did, or like, maybe he's
ashamed, or even maybe, like he

155
00:10:10,500 --> 00:10:13,620
was instructed not to look up at
the projector screens, yeah,

156
00:10:13,680 --> 00:10:17,160
when, like, graphic photos were
shown, just, I don't know, out

157
00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:21,260
of reverence, whatever. So his
head was down the entire time,

158
00:10:21,560 --> 00:10:24,740
but then I noticed there was
this like monitor built into the

159
00:10:24,740 --> 00:10:28,640
table that he was sitting at. So
it was like a glass table top,

160
00:10:28,880 --> 00:10:33,320
and this kind of monitor, like
mounted underneath. And I was so

161
00:10:33,320 --> 00:10:36,020
curious about it throughout the
trial. But again, if I turn my

162
00:10:36,020 --> 00:10:39,320
head to the left, yeah, he's
gonna see me looking at him. So

163
00:10:39,320 --> 00:10:42,580
I just didn't want to do that.
So I didn't know until after the

164
00:10:42,580 --> 00:10:46,300
trial was over. I texted the
bailiff, kind of while making

165
00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:49,900
this podcast, and that's when he
confirmed that every time an

166
00:10:49,900 --> 00:10:52,780
image was projected on the
screen, it would also be

167
00:10:52,780 --> 00:10:55,840
projected on the screens in
front of him, in front of Jason

168
00:10:55,840 --> 00:11:00,040
Chen, right in front of Jason
Chen at his desk. Wow. So he was

169
00:11:00,040 --> 00:11:03,120
actually seeing the images that
we were seeing the whole time

170
00:11:03,360 --> 00:11:07,620
probably more defined than even
what we were seeing. Oh my gosh,

171
00:11:07,920 --> 00:11:13,260
that is crazy to realize that
right from the live stream, when

172
00:11:13,260 --> 00:11:18,600
I was watching the trial, you
could only see that his head was

173
00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:21,380
down. I didn't realize there
were monitors, so right? I

174
00:11:21,380 --> 00:11:24,860
thought that maybe his defense
had said, you know, make it look

175
00:11:24,860 --> 00:11:28,520
this way. Yeah, convenient,
right? Yeah, that's the thing

176
00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:32,300
most people don't realize, is
being on a jury. It's not just

177
00:11:32,300 --> 00:11:35,840
facts and timelines and things
like that. It's about human

178
00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:39,860
behavior. I mean, right, yeah,
obviously you want to make

179
00:11:39,860 --> 00:11:44,200
decisions based on the evidence,
but, you know, things like that,

180
00:11:44,200 --> 00:11:47,860
noticing the eye contact, the
body language, you had to kind

181
00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:51,400
of keep track of all of it,
right? Absolutely. And they

182
00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:55,360
were, they were keeping track of
our energy, our eye contact, our

183
00:11:55,360 --> 00:11:57,880
body language, you know,
everyone else in the courtroom,

184
00:11:57,880 --> 00:12:01,140
yeah. And for them, we had to
keep track of that every day,

185
00:12:01,140 --> 00:12:04,620
not just because we had to make
a decision, but once you're in

186
00:12:04,620 --> 00:12:07,620
that room, you feel the weight
of that responsibility. So you

187
00:12:07,620 --> 00:12:10,680
just, you just want to get it
right. Yeah, and I think you

188
00:12:10,680 --> 00:12:12,480
did. I think we did too.

189
00:12:14,280 --> 00:12:17,640
You know, talking about Jason
and how he interacted with those

190
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:20,720
crime scene photos in the
courtroom leads us into

191
00:12:20,720 --> 00:12:24,140
something we've been sitting
with for a while, and honestly,

192
00:12:24,200 --> 00:12:28,220
it's haunted both of us since we
learned about it. Yeah, this is

193
00:12:28,220 --> 00:12:31,220
something that didn't come up in
the trial. But you ever see a

194
00:12:31,220 --> 00:12:34,940
viral makeup look and think,
Okay, I need to try that.

195
00:12:35,060 --> 00:12:38,180
Whether you're just a mascara
and gloss girly or you're all

196
00:12:38,180 --> 00:12:41,380
about bold color and drama,
we've got that one product you

197
00:12:41,380 --> 00:12:45,520
can always trust. For me, it's
Thrive Cosmetics, the liquid

198
00:12:45,520 --> 00:12:48,820
lash extensions, mascara gives
you the look of Salon lashes

199
00:12:48,820 --> 00:12:52,240
without the glue or the damage.
It doesn't clump, flake or

200
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:55,720
smudge, and it comes off with
just warm water and a cloth,

201
00:12:56,080 --> 00:12:59,860
easy. I'm so happy I made the
switch to this tubing mascara.

202
00:13:00,220 --> 00:13:04,500
Thrive Cosmetics is 100% vegan,
cruelty free, and every purchase

203
00:13:04,500 --> 00:13:08,820
contributes to one of their 650
non profit partners, so your

204
00:13:08,820 --> 00:13:13,020
glow up gives back, try your new
trusty tubing mascara with 20%

205
00:13:13,380 --> 00:13:15,660
off your first order at Thrive
cosmetics.com/beauty

206
00:13:17,400 --> 00:13:23,360
that's Thrive Cosmetics, C, A,
U, S, E, M, E, T, I, C,

207
00:13:23,420 --> 00:13:23,840
s.com/beauty,

208
00:13:25,580 --> 00:13:29,900
for 20% off your first order.
Some matches are temporary, but

209
00:13:29,900 --> 00:13:33,260
your privacy shouldn't be but
line two, you get a second phone

210
00:13:33,260 --> 00:13:36,500
line just for dating. No need to
share your personal number until

211
00:13:36,500 --> 00:13:40,040
you're ready. You can chat, text
and even block numbers, all

212
00:13:40,040 --> 00:13:43,120
while keeping things fun and
private. It's perfect for online

213
00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:46,000
dating, blind dates, or just
keeping things light when you're

214
00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,540
ready to move on, line two lets
you cut ties without any drama.

215
00:13:49,720 --> 00:13:52,780
Dating should be fun and
carefree. Line two keeps it that

216
00:13:52,780 --> 00:13:55,480
way. Ready to date on your
terms. Visit line two.com/audio

217
00:13:56,860 --> 00:14:00,040
or download line two in the App
Store today, but we found out

218
00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,780
about later, and that is that
investigators discovered several

219
00:14:03,780 --> 00:14:09,000
photos on Jason Chen's phone of
a very specific art piece that

220
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,600
he took while he was on a trip
in DC visiting the Smithsonian

221
00:14:13,140 --> 00:14:16,620
so I looked it up. The piece is
called The Birth of Eve, and

222
00:14:16,620 --> 00:14:20,780
it's by an artist named Judith
Schechter. She's a stained glass

223
00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:24,440
artist from Philadelphia who's
completely redefined the medium.

224
00:14:24,500 --> 00:14:28,040
It's actually really beautiful.
Her work uses the visual

225
00:14:28,040 --> 00:14:30,440
language of Gothic cathedrals,

226
00:14:31,460 --> 00:14:34,760
like stuff you'd see in old
churches, but instead of saints

227
00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:40,180
or angels, she explores pain,
emotion and isolation. It's

228
00:14:40,180 --> 00:14:44,380
really raw. So this piece is
part of the permanent collection

229
00:14:44,380 --> 00:14:47,860
at the Smithsonian. If you ever
find yourself there, it depicts

230
00:14:47,860 --> 00:14:52,300
a nude woman suspended upside
down and is curled tightly in

231
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:56,200
the fetal position. Her arms and
legs are pulled in close, almost

232
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:59,500
like she's being held or
confined by something invisible.

233
00:14:59,500 --> 00:14:59,620
So.

234
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:04,440
It's deeply unsettling. I agree.
So here's how this whole art

235
00:15:04,440 --> 00:15:07,860
piece connects to Jason Chen.
And again, this was never part

236
00:15:07,860 --> 00:15:11,340
of the trial, but once I saw it,
and knowing Jason had several

237
00:15:11,340 --> 00:15:15,000
images of it saved in his phone,
it was really hard not to

238
00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,940
compare it with the crime scene
photos we saw. I mean, that's

239
00:15:17,940 --> 00:15:21,920
crazy, if that's true, I know.
So whether it was conscious or

240
00:15:21,920 --> 00:15:24,320
not, it's something I've not
been able to stop thinking

241
00:15:24,320 --> 00:15:28,220
about, like the positioning, the
stillness, the compression of

242
00:15:28,220 --> 00:15:32,960
her body. It mirrored the art
piece so closely, and seeing it

243
00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:36,200
just still makes my stomach
turn. And we want to be clear,

244
00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,800
this is speculation, but when we
found about this art piece, it

245
00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:44,320
was so hard to not make that
connection, right? And it wasn't

246
00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:46,960
a part of the trial. And we're
not saying it proves anything,

247
00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:49,900
but it is one of those details
that just feels too strange to

248
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,620
ignore Exactly. And I don't
think it's about proving a

249
00:15:53,620 --> 00:15:56,440
motive. It's more like
understanding that there may

250
00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:59,500
have been, like, layers and
layers to this case that just

251
00:15:59,560 --> 00:16:04,800
went unseen in the court like
this? Yeah, exactly. And okay,

252
00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,860
so now that leads us to a few
more loose threads that we

253
00:16:07,860 --> 00:16:11,100
haven't been able to let go of.
These also didn't make it into

254
00:16:11,100 --> 00:16:14,940
the trial, but they did stick
with us, which is why we're so

255
00:16:14,940 --> 00:16:17,820
grateful to have the chance to
sit down with the two people who

256
00:16:17,820 --> 00:16:21,980
know this case inside and out,
district attorneys general, Cody

257
00:16:21,980 --> 00:16:25,640
WAMP and palm oil. Yep, they
were the ones who brought this

258
00:16:25,640 --> 00:16:29,840
case to trial, who carried jazzy
story into that courtroom, and

259
00:16:29,840 --> 00:16:33,560
who fought for justice on behalf
of her family. We had a chance

260
00:16:33,560 --> 00:16:36,860
to talk with them about the
trial, about their reflections,

261
00:16:36,980 --> 00:16:39,920
and about some of the unanswered
questions we've been wrestling

262
00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:43,660
with too, and one of the first
things that we talked with them

263
00:16:43,660 --> 00:16:46,720
about was the fact that as
jurors, we were allowed to ask

264
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,780
questions. This is something
that a lot of people were

265
00:16:49,780 --> 00:16:52,600
surprised by when they heard
about it on the podcast. Yeah,

266
00:16:52,600 --> 00:16:55,660
we got so many messages about
that, like, Wait, jurors were

267
00:16:55,660 --> 00:16:59,260
able to ask questions to the
witnesses. Yeah, I actually

268
00:16:59,260 --> 00:17:02,820
loved it. And later I learned
that it's actually pretty rare

269
00:17:03,180 --> 00:17:06,060
it's allowed in the state of
Tennessee. I guess it just

270
00:17:06,060 --> 00:17:10,740
depends on the judge. So here's
what da's WAMP and Moyle had to

271
00:17:10,740 --> 00:17:11,340
say about it.

272
00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:18,480
And that's one of the pros.
There's pros and cons to a jury

273
00:17:18,480 --> 00:17:20,780
being able to ask questions. One
is, you know what they're

274
00:17:20,780 --> 00:17:23,060
thinking and you know what
direction they're going in. You

275
00:17:23,060 --> 00:17:25,700
know what issues they're having
with the case. What do they keep

276
00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:29,900
focusing on? There's there's
cons as as well. First of all,

277
00:17:29,900 --> 00:17:32,000
you y'all didn't know that it's
going to be such a lengthy

278
00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,180
trial. So you're wanting, you're
wanting the evidence from this

279
00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:37,940
witness when it's not coming in
through this witness or another

280
00:17:37,940 --> 00:17:40,660
witness. So it had jurors have a
tendency to maybe get ahead of

281
00:17:40,660 --> 00:17:43,000
themselves, and so we're sort of
wasting time with these

282
00:17:43,000 --> 00:17:45,400
questions, because we're going
to answer these questions for

283
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,560
you. If they can be answered,
we're going to answer them, you

284
00:17:47,560 --> 00:17:51,820
know. So there's pros and cons
amongst both the defense bar and

285
00:17:51,820 --> 00:17:54,940
my office for jury questions. We
only have one judge here who

286
00:17:54,940 --> 00:17:58,780
does jury questions, and that's
judge Patterson. And I think at

287
00:17:58,780 --> 00:18:01,980
first we were all very nervous
about these questions, because

288
00:18:01,980 --> 00:18:04,380
it just started two and a half
years ago, and he became the

289
00:18:04,380 --> 00:18:09,540
judge. But over time, it it only
probably has helped us.

290
00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,400
Honestly, it's not harmed us. It
doesn't hurt, you know, and

291
00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:18,720
sometimes there's a question
that we did not think of, and

292
00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:20,780
you know, so many of y'all
questions were asked, meaning

293
00:18:20,780 --> 00:18:23,120
that there's a question that we
didn't think of and we didn't

294
00:18:23,120 --> 00:18:25,820
even know would be important,
but it was for some reason. And

295
00:18:25,820 --> 00:18:31,100
so I think looking back, I
originally was opposed to the

296
00:18:31,100 --> 00:18:36,500
questions, and now it doesn't,
it doesn't hurt us if juries

297
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:40,240
like it the way that now we're
hearing that juries like being

298
00:18:40,240 --> 00:18:42,640
able to ask those questions. We
also have a concern that we

299
00:18:42,640 --> 00:18:45,640
don't want a juror to use it
against either party if their

300
00:18:45,640 --> 00:18:49,300
question is not asked or think
that someone's hiding the ball.

301
00:18:49,300 --> 00:18:52,480
You know, you have questions
really significant to you. For

302
00:18:52,480 --> 00:18:54,220
some reason the court doesn't
ask it.

303
00:18:55,780 --> 00:18:58,060
I wouldn't want anybody to
think, Well, why are they not

304
00:18:58,060 --> 00:19:00,220
answering the question? What are
they hiding? Because that's

305
00:19:00,220 --> 00:19:03,420
normally just not the case at
all. So we have those concerns.

306
00:19:03,420 --> 00:19:06,480
But overall, and this, I've
never seen a jury ask as many

307
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:09,060
questions as y'all actually.
Yeah, there's probably a couple

308
00:19:09,060 --> 00:19:11,100
times up there where I turn
around and roll my eyes because

309
00:19:11,100 --> 00:19:14,820
I'm like, these questions are I
can see that because some of

310
00:19:14,820 --> 00:19:18,600
them were very detailed, some of
them were so detailed and but at

311
00:19:18,600 --> 00:19:21,260
the end of the day, it doesn't
matter, and it's if a juror

312
00:19:21,260 --> 00:19:23,900
wants those questions answered,
they that's great. That's what's

313
00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:27,200
important to them, and that's
that's what we need to know. But

314
00:19:27,200 --> 00:19:29,600
it is like you, you spend a day
with someone on the witness

315
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,880
state, and then the jury has 29
questions,

316
00:19:32,900 --> 00:19:36,500
do you guys together? Like, does
everyone have to absolutely

317
00:19:36,500 --> 00:19:39,680
agree? Like, we're gonna we can
object. So there were times

318
00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,100
where Josh would have objected
and said, We don't, and then the

319
00:19:42,100 --> 00:19:45,460
court has to decide. Most of
them, we agreed on, okay, most

320
00:19:45,460 --> 00:19:48,760
of them is very clear. It's an
appropriate question, or not an

321
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,880
appropriate question. So many of
them were going to be answered

322
00:19:51,880 --> 00:19:54,160
down the road. And he, I feel
like he made that really clear,

323
00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,460
like we may not answer it. Don't
take it personal, also, it could

324
00:19:57,460 --> 00:19:59,920
be presented at a later time. I.

325
00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,460
I think the thing that was
helpful for us was because we

326
00:20:02,460 --> 00:20:04,680
couldn't talk about it or
discuss the case throughout.

327
00:20:04,860 --> 00:20:09,000
That was our only opportunity to
to have see what everyone was

328
00:20:09,000 --> 00:20:11,340
thinking. Okay, let me just get
this thought out of my head,

329
00:20:11,460 --> 00:20:14,340
versus waiting until
deliberation and going maybe it

330
00:20:14,340 --> 00:20:16,680
took less time to deliberate
because of that, that's

331
00:20:16,680 --> 00:20:19,800
interesting. You were able to
that's very interesting. Yeah, I

332
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:22,640
appreciate that. There's
definitely pros and cons I could

333
00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:24,860
question. And for a prosecutor,
it's nerve wracking some,

334
00:20:24,860 --> 00:20:26,900
because sometimes I don't want
to know what the jury's

335
00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:28,220
thinking. I'd rather not know.

336
00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:33,140
So it's nerve wracking because,
because there were times in that

337
00:20:33,140 --> 00:20:36,320
trial where he and I would walk
back to the table and be like,

338
00:20:36,320 --> 00:20:39,140
That was a bad question. The
fact that one of the jurors is

339
00:20:39,140 --> 00:20:42,160
still, like, focused on
something like that, that, you

340
00:20:42,160 --> 00:20:44,800
know, we'd be sitting there
like, that is bad. That is bad.

341
00:20:44,800 --> 00:20:47,140
That's not good for us. In your
head too, and it, yeah, and by

342
00:20:47,140 --> 00:20:50,140
the end of the day, you're like,
but that three of those jurors

343
00:20:50,140 --> 00:20:53,440
are still focused on this and
but you'll also had the story in

344
00:20:53,440 --> 00:20:56,500
your head the whole time about
Tinder and a fight with wine

345
00:20:56,500 --> 00:20:59,200
glasses. Yeah, we're trying to
prove it. And that's one reason,

346
00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:02,100
by the end of it, where I'm so
frustrated, because throughout,

347
00:21:02,160 --> 00:21:04,740
throughout the trial, you guys
are thinking, and some of your

348
00:21:04,740 --> 00:21:08,400
questions reflected that, when
are we going to hear about this

349
00:21:08,640 --> 00:21:11,040
friends, like you said in your
closing, like it was all muddy

350
00:21:11,040 --> 00:21:14,280
the water, like just to confuse
us. And I think some of the

351
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:16,740
questions reflected that, but
no. And looking back, and I

352
00:21:16,740 --> 00:21:19,860
would tell judge Patterson this,
if juries appreciate him, and if

353
00:21:19,860 --> 00:21:23,120
he appreciates them. You can
allow it in the state of

354
00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:26,300
Tennessee, so I'm fine with it.
We've gotten used to it now, and

355
00:21:26,300 --> 00:21:26,900
it's great.

356
00:21:33,380 --> 00:21:36,680
I loved how seriously they took
the jurors questions, like they

357
00:21:36,680 --> 00:21:39,920
didn't just tolerate them, you
know, like they welcomed them,

358
00:21:39,920 --> 00:21:44,080
yeah. And from our perspective,
I think it made us feel seen,

359
00:21:44,140 --> 00:21:47,740
like our confusion and our
curiosity wasn't just background

360
00:21:47,740 --> 00:21:51,340
noise, you know, yeah, like it
was part of the process. I'd

361
00:21:51,340 --> 00:21:54,640
even argue that it helped the
process. And I don't know, I

362
00:21:54,640 --> 00:21:58,660
just think it was a really cool
opportunity, yeah. And then we

363
00:21:58,660 --> 00:22:01,500
asked them what stood out to
them and the trial itself, like,

364
00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:04,440
what moment stuck with them or
surprised them or challenged

365
00:22:04,440 --> 00:22:08,280
them? Yeah, and I think this is
where it got emotional, because

366
00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:11,460
they talked about Jasmine and
her family, and it was really

367
00:22:11,460 --> 00:22:14,280
clear that they weren't just
trying a case, you know, like,

368
00:22:14,280 --> 00:22:16,860
yeah, they were carrying the
weight of someone's life.

369
00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,060
I think such an example of that
from this trial, when it it was

370
00:22:23,060 --> 00:22:26,480
a little bit early on to really
hit home for the jury, because

371
00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:32,480
Katrina was our first witness,
but how identical she looks to

372
00:22:32,480 --> 00:22:36,320
her daughter. So much always,
yeah, and I mean, always stood

373
00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,480
out to me as like, oh my gosh,
she is up there on the

374
00:22:38,480 --> 00:22:40,780
witnessing she looks exactly
like her daughter. We're going

375
00:22:40,780 --> 00:22:43,900
to show her driver's license so
that you can see. But they are

376
00:22:43,900 --> 00:22:46,420
real people, and they have moms
that sometimes look just like

377
00:22:46,420 --> 00:22:48,640
them, that are willing to
testify on their on their

378
00:22:48,640 --> 00:22:51,400
behalf. And so, yeah, I mean,
what a moment. Y'all didn't know

379
00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,220
as much about the case at that
point in time, because she was

380
00:22:54,220 --> 00:22:57,520
our first witness. But looking
back, I mean, oh yeah, when a

381
00:22:57,520 --> 00:23:00,960
mother looks exactly like her
daughter, who's this has

382
00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,360
happened to and I thought that,
I mean, honestly, I think it's a

383
00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:07,740
sweet moment for me to see her
on the stand. And what a mom,

384
00:23:07,740 --> 00:23:11,880
you know, what a mom Katrina
Venus is the mom that we all

385
00:23:11,940 --> 00:23:14,520
aspire to be. And so I thought
that was a sweet moment.

386
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:19,980
I also thought it was so
powerful, as someone who was

387
00:23:19,980 --> 00:23:24,320
watching the trial real time to
see Jasmine's mom as the first

388
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:27,560
witness on the stand. Because
not only did she look like

389
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:31,400
Jasmine, it was sort of a
representation of her, yeah, but

390
00:23:31,640 --> 00:23:35,840
she really was able to explain
the panic that a mother or a

391
00:23:35,840 --> 00:23:39,080
parent would have when they're
trying to find their daughter,

392
00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,400
which helped explain why they
broke into Jason Chen's

393
00:23:42,400 --> 00:23:46,180
apartment, right? Yeah. I know
it reminded me that everyone in

394
00:23:46,180 --> 00:23:49,000
the courtroom was carrying
something with regards to this.

395
00:23:49,060 --> 00:23:52,840
Yeah, and like for them, it
wasn't just about putting Jason

396
00:23:52,840 --> 00:23:56,680
Chen on trial. This was about
making sure Jasmine's voice

397
00:23:56,680 --> 00:24:00,600
didn't get lost in the legal
process. Yeah, and I feel like

398
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:05,220
both general WAMP and da pal
Moyle, they saw you and the

399
00:24:05,220 --> 00:24:08,460
other jurors as part of that
process, and they were counting

400
00:24:08,460 --> 00:24:11,760
on you guys to hold that weight
alongside of them. I totally

401
00:24:11,760 --> 00:24:16,560
agree, and we felt the weight of
that every day. Yeah, I imagine,

402
00:24:18,120 --> 00:24:21,320
okay, the last thing we talked
about with Da is WAMP and Moyle

403
00:24:21,380 --> 00:24:24,680
was the appeal Jason Chen's
legal team filed to challenge

404
00:24:24,680 --> 00:24:28,040
the verdict. The appeal was
filed on the grounds that the

405
00:24:28,040 --> 00:24:32,060
verdict was, quote, contrary to
the evidence, with claims that

406
00:24:32,060 --> 00:24:35,540
Chen was denied a fair trial due
to alleged evidence being

407
00:24:35,540 --> 00:24:39,560
tampered with by Jasmine's
family. As of the release of

408
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:42,700
this episode, there have been no
publicly reported updates

409
00:24:42,700 --> 00:24:46,540
regarding his appeal, which was
scheduled for April 11, 2025

410
00:24:47,860 --> 00:24:51,220
yeah, there's a lot of confusion
around what an appeal actually

411
00:24:51,220 --> 00:24:55,540
means. So we asked them to
explain it in plain terms and to

412
00:24:55,540 --> 00:24:57,880
share what this particular
appeal might involve

413
00:24:59,200 --> 00:24:59,920
and motion for.

414
00:25:00,000 --> 00:25:03,240
Trial is filed in every single
case after every single trial,

415
00:25:03,660 --> 00:25:06,720
standard, you have to argue the
motion for new trial before you

416
00:25:06,720 --> 00:25:10,080
can go through the actual court
of appeals process. Very

417
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,820
standard formality. There are
some cases in which there can be

418
00:25:14,880 --> 00:25:18,180
significant issues. Most often
there's not because you're

419
00:25:18,180 --> 00:25:20,120
having you know, the judge that
you're viewing the motion for

420
00:25:20,120 --> 00:25:23,180
new trial is Judge Patterson.
He's, he's, he was there for the

421
00:25:23,180 --> 00:25:26,660
trial. So for a judge to grant a
new trial, often they would have

422
00:25:26,660 --> 00:25:30,560
to admit that they made a ruling
that they now got it. Belief was

423
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:35,060
incorrect. And so it very, very
rarely happens that a new trial

424
00:25:35,060 --> 00:25:39,800
is granted. I've seen one here
granted in the last maybe two in

425
00:25:39,800 --> 00:25:44,740
the last five to 10 years, wow.
And so, you know, everybody's

426
00:25:44,740 --> 00:25:47,140
like, Oh, he wants a new trial.
How dare him? And this what

427
00:25:47,140 --> 00:25:49,780
happens? It's no big deal. So as
soon as it's argued, and we

428
00:25:49,780 --> 00:25:53,140
don't believe there will be any
issues whatsoever, then it's in

429
00:25:53,140 --> 00:25:56,260
the hands of the Court of
Appeals. This probably would

430
00:25:56,260 --> 00:25:58,660
never go to the Supreme Court
because issues are just not big

431
00:25:58,660 --> 00:26:02,340
enough, and it'll be done in a
couple years. Yeah.

432
00:26:05,640 --> 00:26:10,320
So to be clear, an appeal is not
a new trial. It is not about

433
00:26:10,320 --> 00:26:14,880
rearguing the facts of the case.
It's a legal review to determine

434
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:18,540
whether anything was done
improperly or unfairly in the

435
00:26:18,540 --> 00:26:22,100
process. And from what we
understand this isn't uncommon

436
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:26,060
at all. It's just the next step,
right? It doesn't make it

437
00:26:26,060 --> 00:26:29,120
easier, though, yeah, for
Jasmine's family, for the

438
00:26:29,120 --> 00:26:33,080
jurors, for anyone who's lived
this story, I think it just

439
00:26:33,080 --> 00:26:36,560
brings it all back up, right?
But the DA has made it clear

440
00:26:36,560 --> 00:26:39,860
they stand by the work they've
done, and so do I honestly,

441
00:26:40,100 --> 00:26:40,720
yeah,

442
00:26:43,120 --> 00:26:45,760
okay, let's answer some
unanswered questions and

443
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,960
theories. Okay, great. Even with
a guilty verdict and an appeal,

444
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:53,020
there are still things about
this case that don't quite sit

445
00:26:53,020 --> 00:26:56,260
right with us, like little
details that weren't part of the

446
00:26:56,260 --> 00:27:00,100
courtroom evidence, but stuck
with us anyway. Yeah, and making

447
00:27:00,100 --> 00:27:03,060
this podcast, we ended up
hearing from a lot of people,

448
00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:07,140
friends, family members, even
folks who were quietly observing

449
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:11,100
from the sidelines, and a few of
them shared things that raised

450
00:27:11,100 --> 00:27:14,760
new questions. One of the
questions we kept coming back to

451
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:17,760
had to do with Jason Chen's
movements the day he drove from

452
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:21,140
his parents home in nolensville,
Tennessee, back to Chattanooga.

453
00:27:21,980 --> 00:27:26,660
So this would have been November
26 2022 which is also the same

454
00:27:26,660 --> 00:27:29,900
day his apartment would have
been searched. Yeah, if you

455
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:32,900
remember from the trial phone
records showed that he never

456
00:27:32,900 --> 00:27:35,660
actually went back to his
apartment. He was just in the

457
00:27:35,660 --> 00:27:39,920
area. His phone pinged near it
at a park nearby, but he never

458
00:27:39,920 --> 00:27:44,860
entered his apartment complex
again, instead, those same

459
00:27:44,860 --> 00:27:48,640
records showed that he drove
north up into the Hixson area,

460
00:27:48,940 --> 00:27:51,520
and that always stood out to us,
like, why did he go up there?

461
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:55,720
What's in Hixson? Yeah, and we
know by this point that

462
00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,320
investigator Crawford has left
Jason Chen a voicemail, right?

463
00:27:59,380 --> 00:28:03,540
So we started wondering, was he
looking for police activity,

464
00:28:03,540 --> 00:28:07,140
like scoping out the area around
his apartment, or maybe even

465
00:28:07,140 --> 00:28:10,800
looking like you said, Where
Jasmine lived, right? So we end

466
00:28:10,800 --> 00:28:13,800
up following the trail. But
before we go there, here's a

467
00:28:13,800 --> 00:28:15,360
moment from Episode Six.

468
00:28:18,780 --> 00:28:21,800
We know from investigator
Crawford's testimony that the

469
00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:25,520
search warrant for Jason Chen's
apartment was granted at 11:45pm

470
00:28:26,660 --> 00:28:27,740
that same night.

471
00:28:29,060 --> 00:28:33,740
So what was Jason back in town
for? Surely by now, investigator

472
00:28:33,740 --> 00:28:37,340
Crawford had already been
calling his phone. Was he

473
00:28:37,340 --> 00:28:40,840
curious about any activity
around his apartment, checking

474
00:28:40,840 --> 00:28:44,020
to see if the police were
already involved, or was there

475
00:28:44,020 --> 00:28:48,640
something else pulling him back.
Then Hamilton reveals another

476
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:52,600
twist. Jason leaves the North
Shore area around 9:30pm

477
00:28:53,800 --> 00:28:57,040
heading towards Hixson, a
community just north of

478
00:28:57,040 --> 00:29:01,620
Chattanooga, and according to
his phone records, Jason stays

479
00:29:01,620 --> 00:29:03,720
in the Hixson area until about
10:15pm

480
00:29:04,980 --> 00:29:08,400
before heading back to
nolensville. So what's in

481
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:13,980
Hixson? Jasmine's house, her
family's house. What in the

482
00:29:13,980 --> 00:29:17,640
world was Jason doing there? And
more importantly,

483
00:29:18,660 --> 00:29:20,120
why you Yeah.

484
00:29:24,560 --> 00:29:28,160
So as it turns out, he was at a
car wash, right, which I guess

485
00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:32,060
makes sense, but also still
feels a little eerie, you know,

486
00:29:32,060 --> 00:29:35,300
like knowing what happened?
Yeah, it's the kind of detail

487
00:29:35,300 --> 00:29:38,180
that doesn't necessarily prove
anything, but it adds to the

488
00:29:38,180 --> 00:29:41,140
picture. Like, what was his
state of mind? What was he

489
00:29:41,140 --> 00:29:45,700
thinking, right? And the
interesting part is that we did

490
00:29:45,700 --> 00:29:50,500
see the tire tread and the back
of his trunk, right, but he

491
00:29:50,500 --> 00:29:54,880
never opened his trunk to
notice, kind of the treads of

492
00:29:54,880 --> 00:29:58,180
the suitcase, right? Yeah, I
remember talking about that too,

493
00:29:58,180 --> 00:29:59,920
like, like, why not open the
trunk and.

494
00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:04,080
Wipe that down real quick if
that liner in the back of his

495
00:30:04,080 --> 00:30:06,960
trunk was so clean otherwise, I
mean, it looked practically

496
00:30:06,960 --> 00:30:11,100
brand new, aside from the two
wheel marks from the suitcase.

497
00:30:11,340 --> 00:30:15,480
You ever see a viral makeup look
and think, Okay, I need to try

498
00:30:15,480 --> 00:30:18,900
that. Whether you're just a
mascara in gloss girly or you're

499
00:30:18,900 --> 00:30:22,280
all about bold color and drama.
We've got that one product you

500
00:30:22,280 --> 00:30:26,480
can always trust. For me, it's
Thrive Cosmetics, the liquid

501
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,780
lash extensions, mascara gives
you the look of Salon lashes

502
00:30:29,780 --> 00:30:33,200
without the glue or the damage.
It doesn't clump, flake or

503
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,680
smudge, and it comes off with
just warm water and a cloth

504
00:30:37,040 --> 00:30:40,780
easy. I'm so happy I made the
switch to this tubing mascara.

505
00:30:41,140 --> 00:30:45,460
Thrive Cosmetics is 100% vegan,
cruelty free, and every purchase

506
00:30:45,460 --> 00:30:49,720
contributes to one of their 650
non profit partners, so your

507
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,920
glow up gives back try your new
trusty tubing mascara with 20%

508
00:30:54,280 --> 00:30:56,560
off your first order at Thrive
cosmetics.com/beauty

509
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:04,320
that's Thrive Cosmetics, C, A,
U, S, E, M, E, T, I, C,

510
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:04,800
s.com/beauty,

511
00:31:06,540 --> 00:31:10,560
for 20% off your first order.
Men, if you're ready to reclaim

512
00:31:10,560 --> 00:31:13,680
your edge, listen up. I used to
be held back by constant

513
00:31:13,680 --> 00:31:16,920
bathroom trips with multiple
wake ups during my sleep and

514
00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,280
looking for restrooms whenever I
was out. Then I discovered

515
00:31:20,280 --> 00:31:23,300
better man, after just two
months, I started experiencing

516
00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:27,320
fewer trips to the bathroom,
less urge to go and I even slept

517
00:31:27,320 --> 00:31:30,440
through some nights. I feel a
noticeable boost in my overall

518
00:31:30,440 --> 00:31:33,860
well being, even sexual stamina.
It gives me the freedom and

519
00:31:33,860 --> 00:31:38,000
confidence to live life on my
terms. Better man is clinically

520
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:42,460
tested and trusted by 1000s of
men over 25 years, ready to take

521
00:31:42,460 --> 00:31:46,240
back control, go to be better
now.com. To order your supply

522
00:31:46,240 --> 00:31:49,780
today. That's be better now.com.
These statements have not been

523
00:31:49,780 --> 00:31:52,540
evaluated by the FDA. This
product is intended to diagnose,

524
00:31:52,540 --> 00:31:54,700
treat, cure or prevent any
disease you just erected.

525
00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,100
Individual results may vary,
right? And then there's the

526
00:31:57,100 --> 00:32:00,160
mystery of the dropped pen. We
had a conversation with someone

527
00:32:00,820 --> 00:32:05,220
who was with Jasmine at the
hospital with her granny

528
00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:10,320
earlier. Remember her granny
died the same day that she went

529
00:32:10,320 --> 00:32:14,220
missing, right? So Jasmine was
at the hospital. This person saw

530
00:32:14,220 --> 00:32:15,900
her on that same day, November
22

531
00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,660
they told us that Jasmine was
wearing her Apple Watch that day

532
00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:25,280
because they commented on her
new watch band, right? So their

533
00:32:25,280 --> 00:32:29,600
theory is it's possible that
jazzy used her Apple Watch to

534
00:32:29,600 --> 00:32:33,500
drop the location pin to her mom
instead of her phone that night.

535
00:32:33,980 --> 00:32:38,420
Mm, hmm. And so we mentioned
this theory to da swamp and

536
00:32:38,420 --> 00:32:42,280
Moyle, and both of them noted
that the Apple Watch has never

537
00:32:42,280 --> 00:32:46,180
been found. Wow. And for what
it's worth, this also wasn't

538
00:32:46,180 --> 00:32:49,120
mentioned in the trial, so we
don't know if Jason took it or

539
00:32:49,120 --> 00:32:52,420
destroyed it, or if it's still
out there somewhere, but one

540
00:32:52,420 --> 00:32:55,960
thing we do know is that that
pin solved her murder. Yes,

541
00:32:55,960 --> 00:32:56,620
exactly.

542
00:32:57,640 --> 00:33:00,280
We wanted to include this
because we know our listeners

543
00:33:00,280 --> 00:33:03,960
are as curious as we are. So if
you have any theories of your

544
00:33:03,960 --> 00:33:07,200
own about this case and we
haven't covered them, please

545
00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:10,980
send them our way. Yes, please
do. You can email us at

546
00:33:10,980 --> 00:33:12,180
sequesteredpod@gmail.com,

547
00:33:13,860 --> 00:33:17,820
and trust me when I say we read
everything. All right, Sarah,

548
00:33:17,820 --> 00:33:21,200
before we wrap this up, we just
want to take a moment to reflect

549
00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:26,960
on this wild ride and what's
ahead. Yeah, wow. I don't think

550
00:33:26,960 --> 00:33:30,740
I ever imagined how big this
would get. I've seriously been

551
00:33:30,740 --> 00:33:35,060
blown away by the response,
yeah, me too. Like by how people

552
00:33:35,060 --> 00:33:38,240
have listened and reached out
and shared their own stories.

553
00:33:38,540 --> 00:33:41,440
Like the support from both
listeners and media has been

554
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:45,460
just overwhelming in the best
way. Wouldn't you say, I agree,

555
00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:50,380
what started as like dreaded
jury duty for you, turned into

556
00:33:50,380 --> 00:33:53,740
something that's now helping
people understand the justice

557
00:33:53,740 --> 00:33:57,760
system and also kind of the
emotional weight that comes with

558
00:33:57,760 --> 00:34:02,700
being a part of it. Yeah, that's
cool. And through it all. Like,

559
00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:07,200
what I keep coming back to is
Jasmine, right? Like I just, I

560
00:34:07,200 --> 00:34:10,980
guess I just, I hope people
remember her name, yes, Jasmine

561
00:34:10,980 --> 00:34:15,120
pace, or jazzy, as her friends
and family called her, she just

562
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:20,180
had an unwavering love and a
vibrant spirit and a family that

563
00:34:20,180 --> 00:34:23,540
just fought so fiercely to find
her and make sure justice was

564
00:34:23,540 --> 00:34:27,980
served. Yeah, exactly. That's
what this podcast has always

565
00:34:27,980 --> 00:34:30,800
been about, remembering the
people at the center of these

566
00:34:30,800 --> 00:34:35,120
stories, not just the crime, not
the perpetrator, but the life

567
00:34:35,120 --> 00:34:39,920
that was lost. And in this case,
that's Jasmine pace, right?

568
00:34:41,660 --> 00:34:46,780
Okay, so as for what's next?
There's more to come. Yes, while

569
00:34:46,780 --> 00:34:51,760
the odds of me being sequestered
again are highly unlikely, I am

570
00:34:51,760 --> 00:34:55,540
not done telling these stories.
There are too many lives that

571
00:34:55,540 --> 00:34:59,020
have ended far too soon, and
just too many questions still

572
00:34:59,020 --> 00:34:59,920
looming in the.

573
00:35:00,300 --> 00:35:04,020
Arc. We're already working on
our next case, and we've got a

574
00:35:04,020 --> 00:35:08,100
few ideas brewing, but we also
want to hear from you, yeah, if

575
00:35:08,100 --> 00:35:11,040
there's a case you think we
should look into something

576
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:14,700
local, something overlooked,
something that really has stuck

577
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:18,300
with you again, please email us
at sequesteredpod@gmail.com

578
00:35:20,220 --> 00:35:23,420
or you can hit us up on
Instagram, and if this podcast

579
00:35:23,420 --> 00:35:27,500
has meant something to you, if
jazzy story has stayed with you,

580
00:35:27,920 --> 00:35:31,700
please take a moment to rate and
review the show. It might seem

581
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:35,060
small, but it actually helps
more than you think. Yeah, those

582
00:35:35,060 --> 00:35:38,960
reviews tell those algorithm
gods that people care, and that

583
00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,920
helps new listeners find
sequestered. It's one of the

584
00:35:41,920 --> 00:35:44,980
best ways we can keep Jasmine's
story and the stories we'll

585
00:35:44,980 --> 00:35:49,000
cover next reaching the people
who need to hear them. Also stay

586
00:35:49,000 --> 00:35:52,000
subscribed. We'll be dropping
more bonus episodes with

587
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:55,600
updates, thoughts and anything
we feel you should know as new

588
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,680
information surfaces. And before
we go, we just want to send so

589
00:35:59,680 --> 00:36:03,300
much love to Jasmine's family,
you are the reason justice

590
00:36:03,300 --> 00:36:07,140
happened, and we're holding you
close in our hearts. It's true,

591
00:36:07,200 --> 00:36:10,200
so many of the comments from
listeners are sending your

592
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:13,020
family their love and
reassurance that Jasmine's name

593
00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:17,280
will never be forgotten. Thanks
to all of you for being here,

594
00:36:17,340 --> 00:36:21,440
for listening and for
remembering jazzy with us. Stay

595
00:36:21,440 --> 00:36:24,440
safe, stay curious, and we'll
see you next time.

596
00:36:33,740 --> 00:36:37,760
This is a VP production. The
show is written, edited and

597
00:36:37,760 --> 00:36:42,280
produced by me Sarah Reed, with
CO production by Andrea Kleid,

598
00:36:42,820 --> 00:36:46,000
music and sound design are
curated to reflect the gravity

599
00:36:46,000 --> 00:36:49,360
and sensitivity of this story,
and with the intent to honor

600
00:36:49,360 --> 00:36:52,900
Jasmine, her family and the
community affected by her death.

601
00:36:53,440 --> 00:36:56,320
For more information or to
connect with us, visit

602
00:36:56,320 --> 00:37:00,760
sequestered pod.com or follow us
on Instagram at sequestered pod

603
00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:08,460
you Hi, I'm Paula Wallace,
president and founder of SCAD,

604
00:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,580
the world's biggest and best
university for creative

605
00:37:11,580 --> 00:37:15,660
professions. Throughout the
year, SCAD invites elite pros to

606
00:37:15,660 --> 00:37:19,200
campus to share their wisdom
with our students. Their stories

607
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:22,640
and insights are just too good
to keep secret, which is why I

608
00:37:22,640 --> 00:37:26,480
launched on creativity, the
podcast where you get to be a

609
00:37:26,480 --> 00:37:30,380
SCAD student too. This is your
own private master class with

610
00:37:30,380 --> 00:37:34,580
creative icons available
wherever you get your podcasts.