Brock Briggs  0:00  

Hello and welcome to the Scuttlebutt Podcast. Today, you're hearing my conversation with Lisa Jaster. Lisa graduated from the military academy in 2000, followed by multiple deployments on active duty, a break in service and then back to the Army Reserves. We talked about thinking big picture and how doing smaller day to day actions to put good into the world are often more important than bigger gestures of kindness. We talk about her love of fitness and how to use fitness as a way of advancing mentally. 

Turns out, we both enjoy endurance sports. So we talked about triathlons and a recent 52k ultra marathon she did. That fitness was put to good work when Lisa became one of the first women to attend Army Ranger School and receive the Tab. Lisa talks about the adversity faced in that first class and how the army is evolving around diversity. Please enjoy this conversation with Lisa Jaster.

Brock Briggs 

Lisa, thank you so much for being here with me today. I wanna start out by trying to sum up what I think would maybe do your career justice, which would be very difficult. You've got a long military career. And I wanna make sure that we honor that. I have a quote from you from an article that I wanna cite, oh, don't cringe. It's not a bad one. No, no this isn't an exposé interview. The quote goes, “It's important to try to do hard things. But it's also important to look at the big picture and see how you can add to society and maybe make the world a little bit better.” Will you talk me through that?

Lisa Jaster  2:08  

I think the headspace I was in at that time is, I get really frustrated because people think about let's talk about Ukraine and Russia, right? What can we do? And we're talking at these big global levels, we're talking about big changes, how can we help people, but yet we walk by somebody next door to us who's crying and suffering. And so like, it's important to do big things. It's important to have those change agents. But it's also important to donate blood and smile at somebody who looks sad, and try to really impact the world around you. 

And in this world, where we hold people up for the big things that they do, we sometimes forget how important all those little day to day actions are. And so really, with that, I'm trying to get to the point or was trying to get to the point of those little things. Being impactful on your community really needs to be step one before we think about, it’s great. It's great to donate money or send someone or even volunteer to go. I went to Guatemala last summer on a Team Rubicon volunteer mission. And that was fantastic for two weeks. 

But if you do big, glorious things like this, I like volunteering two weeks of your time. But you're a butthead to the guy who sits next to you in church. Are you really improving the world, one person at a time? Either those big things need to happen. We need the multibillionaires of the world to donate to save the children. But that's not where our headspace should be. That's not where we should be. Each individual should be thinking. It doesn't, if you're not a good person, but you throw your money at good causes, that good money you're throwing at good causes is still beneficial. 

But are you really making the world a better place just by throwing money at the problem? Now if that's how you got his money, great. And if all you have is time, great too. But in the world we live in right now, I think being nice to your neighbor is much more important. And the reason why I say that is and I know I said before we even started this discussion, hey, I don't wanna talk about politics. 

But if my next door neighbor is a hyper conservative and my other next door neighbor is hyper liberal and I'm sitting in the middle of them. And I can't be nice to either of them or they can't be nice to each other. Then how is our community going to work and function? How will I ever understand why this person is an extreme liberal or an extreme conservative, if I don't go over and talk to them and smile at them when they have a bad day and let them vent to me once in a while.

We can't solve the world's problems by doing just grandiose measures. We have to do some of these smaller activities. As far as joining the military, you know, that hits a whole nother realm for me because I think God that I went away to basic training at 18. I had zero life experience and getting my passport stamped, and meeting new people. I mean, at basic training, I had a Jewish roommate. Okay. I had never been around a Jewish person ever. And I didn't understand the differences and the similarities. 

So and then, of course, the other types of people you meet in the military, I never had a black roommate. I had a black roommate at West Point and learned a whole lot of interesting things there. So going out and learning about different cultures and being part of a melting pot is one of the benefits to joining the military. But then the other one is serving a higher purpose is huge. 

It becomes part of who you are, whether you join because you're flag waving or you're joined because your dad served or you joined because you wanted to leave your hometown in a hurry. Whatever the reason is for joining, it is a higher calling in the end. Nobody gets through the end of basic training without getting a little something, some sort of feeling when they hear the national anthem. Like you can't make it through that period of time without being like, that's part of who I am. 

Brock Briggs  6:56  

Without getting choked up. 

Lisa Jaster  6:58  

Yup, yup right here hits me right in the feels.

Brock Briggs  7:00  

Every time. Do you think that speaking to that kind of doing the big things versus doing the small things? Do you think that we have maybe done a poor job? And if this gets political at all, we don't have to go down that way. But do you think that we have done a poor job of honoring veterans in the country when we're like trying to solve big problems like world hunger, but maybe not taking care of people on the homefront? Does that qualify what we're talking about, do you think?

Lisa Jaster  7:36  

I don't know. I think there's pockets. So I live in Texas, like Texas loves their veterans. I mean

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Lisa Jaster

There isn't a place I can go to where if I'm wearing anything that looks like I bought an MPX. Now you've been to the base exchanges, the post exchanges, the Marine Corps exchanges, whichever ones you visited. And there's the khaki pants and the blue collared Henley shirt that everybody gets issued the first time they walk in to the post exchange, like it's the civilian attire uniform that we all buy. 

And then there's those shoes. They only sell there. And you see people. I got my oil changed a couple of weeks ago, and somebody was wearing their old before the camel colored combat boots, the old desert sand boots. And all I did was say, “Hey, when did you serve?” And for 30 minutes, he told me war stories. It was fantastic. So in Texas, the veteran community is very close and very supportive. So I don't feel that necessarily that we’re not supportive. But there are people like, I'm not sure if you're familiar with, let me make sure I get his name right. And it's already left me so but there are a lot of people that are working in politics right now to try to get not necessarily better programs for veterans as much as more veteran representation. 

So right now, we have a lot of politicians to get into politics. We have a lot of politicians but not a lot who have a history of service. And I cracked that open a little bit earlier when I said, you know, I left my hometown, got my passport stamped, got some experiences. If you've lived your whole life and I grew up in Plymouth, Wisconsin. If you lived your whole life in Plymouth, Wisconsin and you develop your career and you continue to develop your career, you end up at some point in time having a very short sight of what the world looks like, a very narrow viewpoint. 

And in the military, we are forced whether or not we want to, to jump into somebody else's foxhole and take a peek around from their point of view, whether it's a black male from an intercity that I had a math class with, when I am a white female from a small farming community. There are 100 things that go through his mind every day that I've never even thought about. And so to make a short story long, which is what I'm really good at doing, is I think we need more veterans in politics. 

And specifically, we need more veterans in politics, because we have a different aperture. And we see the world a slightly different way. So some of those programs are some of the lack of support that we as veterans see is because we see it, we see the world through a different viewpoint, and maybe have spent time in Afghanistan and Iraq. And hey, this is what an unsupported community looks like. This is what a supportive community looks like.

Brock Briggs  10:53  

I would certainly agree with the fact that while you're serving, active or reserve, you're being exposed to things you never, like you can be the most culturally sensitive person, but I guarantee you, you will see things that you've never seen before. 

Lisa Jaster  

Yeah

Brock Briggs

And that's good, like you said, a wider aperture for life. You said that you joined when you were 18. And if I have my notes here, correct, graduated the military academy in 2000. And followed by a period of active duty before you went to the reserves. How did your aperture change, going from active duty to the reserves?

Lisa Jaster  11:38  

So again, my story is very untraditional. I kind of have an unconventional both civilian career and military career. But I got off active duty in 2007, and actually had a five year break in service. And I had always wanted to go in the reserves. But I thought I didn't wanna do it right away. I wanted to set up my civilian career so that I wasn't trying to figure out the reserve life while figuring out how to be married while figuring out how to be a new mom, while figuring out how to develop my corporate America because I wanted a career not a job, right? And so that was a huge challenge was trying to fit all that together. 

Well, when I did actually go and try to get back into a reserve unit, it turns out that my social security number with a lot of other people who hadn't done anything in more than a couple of years, was flushed, so I was no longer in the IRR. I couldn't go back in the military. So it took me an additional two years to get back into the Army as a reservist. And I had to go back through MAPs, which is like the you get to duck walk with a bunch of 18 year olds to see if you're physically fit enough and can bend enough to make it through basic training. And that was fun for me as a former post command Captain O-3 to be there with a bunch of high school students trying to figure out whether or not I can be in the military.

Brock Briggs  13:07  

That's a much different viewpoint coming back in. That's really interesting. So you said that you were looking for a career. You must not have seen the military as a career then.

Lisa Jaster  13:23  

I did. I loved the army. And I thought I was gonna be a lifer. From the time I visited West Point, my junior of high school until about six months before I got off active duty. I thought this is it. I was gonna be a careerist. I did fall in love with a Marine, which you know, judge me as you wish. But the two of us couldn't have really good active careers if we stayed on active duty. And he's an alpha. So he's a high performer. There wasn't one of us that's like, “Hey, my career will be second. And I'll just follow you.” That was gonna be a challenge. 

He actually did get out of the Marine Corps. And then he joined the reserve and was working in, was following me. But I didn't see that as being a long term solution. We both, like I said, are very intrinsically motivated. So once he got out of the Marine Corps, he wanted to be successful in his civilian career as well. And that's very difficult if you're traveling every, if you're moving every two to three years, going to different countries, being a single parent. 

And then when we decided we wanted to have children as well, I was concerned that both of us would, again, it was a very intense time in the military. There were a lot of our soldiers or a lot of his Marines. A lot of our friends were coming home either injured or deceased. And the idea of having children and both of us being in really high risk jobs made me anxious. So he stayed in the reserve. I got out completely. And then eventually, I just missed my tribe so much. I couldn't help myself, but get back in.

Brock Briggs  15:10  

Yeah. I wanna talk about that period in between there. What were you doing? Like, why did you leave active to go and do career wise? And I guess what ended up leaving you to sign on the line for a second time, I guess?

Lisa Jaster  15:28  

So I was working for Shell Oil Company. I worked on conventional oils. It was a fantastic career. Shell is a great company. It's a lot like the military and the fact that it's a huge global organization that has some central organization, but also its own pockets. So you're in different companies, just like you are in the military. You’re in different organizations, just like the military. But there's this hierarchy that meets in the middle. 

And there's one kind of final deciding factor. And so I had the opportunity to work in several different businesses within Shell Oil and really enjoyed it. I worked predominantly project management, program management, in the construction realm unconventionals. But as I alluded to earlier, I did miss the tribe. My husband would come back from his drills, and he would talk about the guys. He was in an all male unit. He was a battalion commander for well, not yet a battalion commander, but he was in a reconnaissance unit out of San Antonio, and he'd come back and talk about, “This is the best fraternity in the world.” 

And he tells me all these stories, and I missed that because corporate America doesn't have that same concept of, “Oh, this person's a new guy. Let's grab him or her and take them to the gym, or take them to the baseball field or take them out to get a cocktail.” Corporate America, people slide in and out of jobs frequently, but everybody has their family or their organization or their village that they live in. But their work isn't their tribe. And in the army, the work was always part of my tribe. And I really missed that whole, “Hey, Lisa, what are you doing after work? Let's go play basketball.”

Brock Briggs  17:24  

Yeah, the best fraternity in the world. I think that that's a pretty accurate descriptor of the military. Do you think that that “fraternity” is at odds with family life? I hear what you're saying. And I'm like, looking at it. And it's interesting, just hear you and your husband kind of like have the same, like kind of drive to like, kind of feel that sense of like connectedness. And I'm wondering how like, the home family dynamic like plays into that when you've got two people that are competing for that?

Lisa Jaster  18:03  

Yeah. So you know, he's got his Marine Corps family. I've got my Army family, and we've got our home family. For sure, the military is 10 times closer interpersonal relationship than corporate America has been, in my experience. And they're, I think sometimes the military wants to be your only family. 

I used to joke when I was on a high op tempo deployment schedule, saying, Hey, I understand. But if the army wanted you to have a family, they would have issued you one.” Like we laugh about that now. And the Army is trying to change, the military as a whole is trying to change. But I can speak a little bit more authoritarian about with a little bit more authority, with regards to the army. 

We recently just passed some new parental roles and allocations that give people more time to build and develop their family, whether it is the birth parent, or an adoptive parent or the spouse, and again, using very gender neutral terms, because that's how the document is written. But as the army is trying to say, hey, we understand the value of family more than they did 20 years ago, when I first joined 22 years ago.

Brock Briggs  19:21  

I've been seeing a lot on Twitter, people talking about the new rules. And of course, anytime there's a change in the rules, there's a lot of people that grab the pitchforks and talk about how it's this way or that way. Do you think that it was a step in the right direction? And maybe do we have further to go on that front of making it more kind of family focused? And I kind of wanna like lead this into, like the retention conversation because I think that that's an important one.

Lisa Jaster  19:57  

Yeah, and that's exactly where I was gonna take it, the military across the board. But again, I know specifically about the army. The army has a talent management task force based out of the Pentagon, and they're doing a lot of research. How do we keep our good people, you know. The idea of those awesome World War ll, World War l generals, they were amazing. They were a little bit like dictators. 

When you get into all the memoirs, the biographies, the autobiographies, they all had a really shaky home life, like almost almost to the very last one. I have yet to find a book about, hey, this really successful general who sacrificed so much for this war that were or this military service had a really great relationship with their wife, or was really close with their children. You just don't read a lot of that. And that's fine at that point in time. 

But that's not what the new generation wants. And so our talented individuals want to have this work life balance. And let's be honest, there's no such thing as work-life balance. You're either working or you're trying to live a different life, but there's never a balance. It's always a teeter totter. And so to keep our talented individuals we have to give, we have to look at what they want. And I'll take a corporate America example. I don't want more pay, like whatever job I work next, it's not gonna be for more pay. It’s gonna be for better benefits, a better 401k, maybe more vacations, maybe more perks, maybe I wanna fly in the company jet. 

But you know, at some point in time in your life, if you're a talented individual, you're looking for big picture benefits. And you know that once you retire, no matter what your job is, you hope there's someone home to meet you there. Like you hope there's someone still there at the end of the day. And so the research that was done, I'm gonna assume it was well done, but it's all under the umbrella of trying to retain good talent, and I'll dovetail that into being a reservist. 

So as a reserve battalion commander, having eight companies, and each of those companies having 140 plus or minus personnel, I look at who are my leaders and what makes them good? Well, if I pull too hard on them as a reservist, the same intrinsic motivation that makes them good at doing army stuff, is the same person that goes home to their family or their friends or their extracurriculars, and also goes to that full time job. 

So they're always going to be a driven human being. Well, if I pull them too hard in the military, their calculus of quitting is a term my husband uses a lot. Their calculus of quitting changes significantly, because they also wanna be successful in their civilian job and in their home job. So we always have to home job being, you know, spouse, whatever their home life looks like. So we always have to balance in the military, how much we're taking from an individual. And I think the army is trying to do that to retain the right people.

Brock Briggs  23:31  

I think that the way that they're going about it is, I think that that's right. Like you've mentioned, pay is not really as big of an issue as I think that most people think it is. And I know that I felt that when, you know, as a junior enlisted person was very quick to you know, snub my fingers that how much I made. But when people talk about the other benefits that you get, whether it's tuition assistance.

Or you know, it really set home when I got my first full time job, like outside of the service again, and saw how much I was paying for health insurance. I was like, “Oh, okay.” I'm starting to kind of put that together now. But yeah, I think that the family aspect of it is much more important, but a hard problem to solve. Like you said, you're solving for something where we need to be operationally ready. And, you know, be ready to go at a moment's notice. But also make sure people are home for dinner every night. Those are two very conflicting missions.

Lisa Jaster  24:43  

But I think one of the things and we all do it. Again, in corporate America just as much, everything's an emergency right now. And so I've tried really hard to talk to people who work for me and say, “Listen, unless it's an actual emergency, please don't be checking your email at 10 o'clock at night. Go to bed, you know, cuddle with your dog, watch Netflix, go to the gym, whatever it is.” 

But we have to say exactly what you were saying. If you want people to be ready to deploy at the drop of a hat, you don't have to steal the rest of their life. It needs to be a priority when it's an emergency. And then the rest of the time maybe allow them to be home for dinner. You know what's gonna happen if we stay till seven o'clock every night? Five days a week, and then I'm calling you on Saturday and Sunday. When it's time to go to Syria, are we gonna be ready? Are we gonna already be burnt out?

Brock Briggs  25:41  

Yeah, kind of can easily be wiped out before your call to literally go overseas and spend a year living in a tent and do that whole thing. Yeah, that's a very hard problem. I'm not really sure how to kind of separate those two things, because they're trying to draw a line in between the family and say, okay, when you're not at work, you're spending time with your family. But I think that and maybe this was just my perspective as again, a junior enlisted person, not really thinking super big picture. 

But I certainly felt like my entire life was dominated by the military no matter what. Like, I didn't have a family at the time. And so I wasn't really going through those struggles. And but I can only assume that it would be even worse. I had a wife and get at home. What do you make of that? How do people separate themselves? And I would be curious to hear that compare and contrast from active duty to reserves, that's a much different line to be drawing. How do people really leave the uniform at work?

Lisa Jaster  27:01  

I think you have to be really deliberate about it. So we make a point, I make a point with my key staff personnel to say, “Okay, now every Monday at one o'clock, we're having a call. So on Sunday night, let's not be bugging each other. Let you help your kids finish their homework up. You know, Sunday night is family time. Monday, we're gonna all gonna get together and talk about it.” So be deliberate, say, “Hey, I don't wanna hear from you, unless it's an emergency.” 

And then also say, hey, these are the things that constitute it. It's called CCIR, you know, a commander's Critical Incident Report. Hey, these are the CCIRs. These are the things you have to call me about if somebody's sick, or somebody's dying, or somebody in jail. Other than that, it can probably wait till Monday morning. But as leaders, we have to be the ones who push that, because, and they have to see it. 

So one of the things I do is, because I'm a part time military, I work on army stuff on, like, from four to five o'clock in the morning. Every morning, check my email, make sure there's nothing out there that's waiting on me. Well, I need to make sure my soldiers don't think that they're expected to check their email at five o'clock in the morning. I'm doing that so that when I'm dropping my kids off at school, or I'm working my day job, I can disconnect because I know nothing is gonna wait on me for more than 24 hours. 

So I have settings where my emails won't send until seven o'clock or I will write all my text messages to people and just leave them as drafts and send them at seven or eight o'clock in the morning so that people don't get that expectation or don't feel like I'm setting an expectation that they have to work 24/7.

Brock Briggs  28:51  

That's an extremely conscious leadership decision. I really liked that. And I think that there's more people that could benefit from that, not even just in the military sphere, but in the corporate world as well. Much more prevalent and like working from home and fully remote, being too tied to the computer and the kind of a perk of making your own schedule, kind of but then you end up working kind of weird hours. And next thing you know, it's a 10, 11 at night and you're like why am I doing this right now? 

Lisa Jaster

Yes

Brock Briggs

Yeah, an interesting problem we'll be facing I guess going forward in a more remote world. What was the call to come back and join the reserves?

Lisa Jaster  29:46  

So I mentioned the tribe. I really did miss that feeling of being part of a team. I was jealous of my husband's fraternity stories. And I also got contacted via Facebook and got recruited into a unit. So social media does have a benefit for those who don't like it. But yeah, I got contacted by a West Point grad, “Hey, we've got a unit. We've got a spot. You'd be perfect for it. Any chance you'd be interested.” 

And the minute that seed was planted plus the, I miss having the constant family. And that also comes from I had, I went to Operation Enduring Freedom in Afghanistan, number one. And then I went to Operation Iraqi Freedom number one, came back, went to grad school, and then spent two years in South Korea. So in my seven years of active service, I had well over four years of that time, if you include all my basic course and my advanced course, where I was living and breathing military, even when I was out of uniform.

So 24/7, I was on post living in barracks surrounded by that environment of, hey, I'm going to the DFAC. You wanna come with me? Hey, I'm, I got to run to the PX, do you need anything? Hey, I wanna go shoot, but I need a battle buddy to go to the military range on Tuesday. Can you come with me? And when I got out of the military, none of those conversations happened. Nobody ever just knocked on my door randomly and said, “Hey, let's go here.” And so I missed that. 

And then my very first drill, it's my very first time being a reservist. No uniform, nothing I showed up. And they're like, “Hey, this is our, like, development family weekend. And we're gonna go rock climbing.” And I said, “Okay, I don't have my family here. And I don't know that I have the right clothes for this.” But we all went rock climbing and did our team building event. And the vehicle that I was in was a bunch of old infantry guys. And they're like, “Hey, did you see that skydiving place that we drove past on the way to the rock climbing place? Let's go jump on airplanes. Yes, yes.” And that was exactly what I was missing. 

So I fell hook line and sinker after my very first drill, because it was, “Hey, Lisa, you wanna?” And the answer is always yes, of course, I do. Whatever I'm doing, let's go on a picnic. Let's go jump out of airplanes, whatever. And that's what that was the call back in. And what keeps me in is literally every time I go to drill, somebody does the exact same thing. Oh, it's 11 o'clock, you ready for lunch? 

Like you don't eat by yourself unless you try hard. You don't go to dinner by yourself unless you try hard. You don't run, you don't even go for a two mile run by yourself unless you tell everybody to back off. And it's this community. This just, you're never alone. But you're also nothing's ever forced upon you. Like, I don't feel like I have forced friends. But I feel like I have comrades everywhere I go.

Brock Briggs  33:08  

I will be interested, when you end up fast forwarding to getting out for good. And to hear about what your experience is like. I know that it's a very common problem when people get out.  You're just like, you know, literally one day, you're just super close. And you like see all these people every day. And like you said, you're doing all of these things. And then all of a sudden, you're just not. 

And I remember when I got out, I literally like flew off the carrier we were out to sea at the time. And I just like, never saw anybody again. And it was so strange. Like I had one or two close friends that got out at the same time as me and we kind of moved away together. But all of those people, you're just like, I wonder how they're doing now. And I think that that may contribute to some of the problems we see like on the veteran front like that kind of missing purpose

Lisa Jaster 

Yup

Brock Briggs

Lack of community problems that are very prevalent in the community. 

Lisa Jaster  34:15  

So I’m gonna do a shameless plug right here now. So I'm on the board of directors of Team Red, White and Blue. And it's a 501(c)3 nonprofit, Mike Erwin was the founder. It's in every major city in the US and outside of every major military base overseas. It's called Team Red, White & Blue. 

And it's you know, you got a lot of veterans organizations that are about shooting or fighting or, you know, something combative. Or you've got places like the VFW where you can go get popcorn and a beer. This is a fitness based organization that does lots of volunteer work. You know, we'll put flags on headstones for Memorial Day and veterans cemeteries, but we also run marathons or do Tuesday morning bike rides downtown. And it is just and you don't have to be prior service member. You can just be somebody who supports the military. 

But it is exactly what we're talking about. It's that tribal feeling of having a group of people that's in your general area that says, “Hey, Lisa, I saw your Facebook post today. Looks like you're having a bad day. Let's go for a run tomorrow morning. Or can you meet up for a bike ride? Or let's meet up for a beer,” whatever. But yeah, big fan of Team Red, White & Blue. Super involved with them now, so that I can avoid exactly what you were talking about, which is that feeling of separation and loneliness that comes from being part of a big, purpose driven organization, and then not.

Brock Briggs  35:49  

Where can people go to follow along and get involved?

Lisa Jaster  35:54  

Literally, teamredwhiteandblue.org. That's it. 

Brock Briggs

Perfect!

Lisa Jaster

Yep

Brock Briggs  35:59  

Nice and straightforward and easy. 

Lisa Jaster

Yes

Brock Briggs 

Good. You've mentioned fitness a lot. And you kind of mentioned before that you are maybe a former marathoner, current marathoner. Is that right? 

Lisa Jaster  36:13  

So I can get tucked into damn near any fitness competition.

Brock Briggs  36:21  

Very agreeable. I’m thinking about just throwing out some random invites for crazy things. Maybe we should line something up.

Lisa Jaster  36:28  

So a girlfriend of mine calls me up. She's like, “Yeah, you know, I'm kind of in a funk. Let's do an ultra marathon.” And I said, “okay.” And she's like, “Really?” Said, “Sure.” So we signed up for it. I ended up having shoulder surgery, so I couldn't train at all, which what I didn't understand is after my shoulder surgery, there were months where I wasn't allowed to run. So we're, she and I have signed up for I think it was a 52k off road ultra marathon. And this wasn't like 10 years ago. This was last year, we're in our mid 40s. 

And I can't train and we live in two different cities. So we're not hanging out together. I'm just walking. I walk for eight hours a day wearing a weight vest trying to prep for this Ultra. And she ends up having an emergency surgery and can't show up the day of the race. So I'm now by myself completely suffered into this. Next thing you know, it was one of the best days I've had in a long time. Every time I have my glass of wine, I drink out of my little finishers class that gave me a little blast, literally every day because I was so proud of finishing.

And it was being I live outside of San Antonio. So being in the Austin area, it's partway between Austin San Antonio. There was a lot of retired military. I met I exchanged phone numbers with people. There was one guy. He was a Marine who bonked and was on the side of the road and couldn't even stand up. But it was a trail so no cars could come and pick them up. So I helped him to the next stop, met this former retired Air Force pastor, a preacher man, and we went through part of it. 

We even called his wife at one point in time because he was like, I'm done. I'm like, let's just call your wife, you know. And so, yes, I can get suckered into anything and everything. Next on my plate is a jiu jitsu competition. And so I haven't signed up yet. I'm saying it out loud so that I can't back out of it. But I'm gonna do another jiu jitsu competition. And for me, fitness is not about physical health. For me, fitness is about mental health. And it's also about the groups that you're around. So marathoning, I did. I've only done one. 

But I did an Ironman Triathlon. It's fun to train for it. Because I get that time alone, I get, you know, a 20 mile run is a whole lot of time to work through whatever demons you have in your head. But then when you actually go there on race day, you pass people. People pass you. People cheer for you. The lady giving out the soup broth, at mile 20 of the 26.2 mile marathon suddenly becomes your best friend because you've been racing for 10 hours and you know, you're hugging on her and you've never met her before. I think fitness is an avenue for spiritual and mental health that people who aren't into fitness are missing. Yeah, I don't know how else to say it. But it's a huge part of who I am, but not for my physical conditioning as much as my mental health.

Brock Briggs  39:39  

I was gonna ask, like, what motivates you to kind of like take on these big physical challenges, but you kind of touched on that. I can resonate with that 100% It's really difficult for me personally to understand when people don't have that. Because it's like, I can't even think straight. And maybe that's like a personal affliction. But I like if I don't do something in the morning, I just like, every day is a shit day. Like, I can't think. I don't get anything done. I just am scrambled and that, like, is endurance, specifically, I think it's just unbelievably rewarding. 

Lisa Jaster 

Yeah

Brock Briggs  

And just like hours and hours of grueling pain and whatnot. I haven't, I'm in the same boat as you as like not having signed up. And I keep saying it out loud to make sure that I like actually do it. But I have been training for half Ironman in June. And I have been like training and training, but I haven't like bought the ticket yet. And I have been so scared because I'm like, this is gonna be terrible.

Lisa Jaster  40:54  

It is. It's gonna be awesomely terrible. 

Brock Briggs  41:00  

Yeah. There's a weird, I get a really, personally get a very weird feeling that's, like deep into runs. And I've never asked anybody this ever actually. So this is maybe we'll make for some good conversation. But I get a really weird feeling deep into a run when it feels like you just kind of like, everything breaks, and you get like kind of weirdly emotional. 

Lisa Jaster 

Yes

Brock Briggs 

Like really, okay, so that's a real thing.

Lisa Jaster  41:30  

It is a real thing. A runner's high, and then all of a sudden, it's like, it's pure exhaustion. Oddly enough, my husband knows that this happens to me when I go out on runs. And for a long time, when I was doing more endurance training, right now I'm not. But when I was doing more endurance training, he would literally sit there with a protein shake in my running shoes. And we would get to this point where everything was really tense. You're married, right? No matter how much you love your spouse, at some point in time, you're like, “You are the roommate that will never leave. Oh, my God.” 

Brock Briggs  42:06  

Got to spend the rest of my life like this. 

Lisa Jaster  42:09  

Yes, and he's an amazing man. But for the love of God, how do you still not know where the spoons go? Like, come on, man. And when you start grinding, just a little bit on that day to day life, he'll give me my shoes and protein bar or protein shake, and I will go and I will just go and I'll go without a watch. I'll go without my GPS. I won't have my phone. I don't have earbuds. And I just let everything go in my brain. 

And I know it's time to turn around when I hit the point that you were just talking about, when it's the complete and other release of its ecstasy and hate and anger and passion and love and you wanna cry. But you wanna shake but you kind of start laughing at yourself. And you're thinking, oh God, if people could hear my brain right now, they’ll think I'm nuts. And you just and then you come home, and my husband will be there with another protein shake for me and say, “Are we good now?” I'm like, yes. This was the argument we had. It's already settled. You don't have to worry about it. You apologized. We're good. Thanks.

Brock Briggs  43:17  

Put that spoon wherever the hell you feel like it. I don't care. 

Lisa Jaster

Yes, exactly. 

Brock Briggs

That is so funny. I've never really been able to describe that to somebody. But I felt it a couple of weeks ago on a very long bike ride. And I was like, I've never biked in my I mean, I've ridden the bike, but I've never like bike like rode bike before. 

And so I like going by this road bike, and I'm like, I need to see if I can even like ride this even close to this many miles. The path is like 56 miles or whatever. And I go out there and about three quarters of the way that happened. And I was like, “Oh yeah, I'm like this is happening.” And it is just it is a lot happening at once and very difficult to describe. So I'm glad that that's a real thing. And I'm not the bad crazy, just the good crazy.

Lisa Jaster  44:10  

You know, I used to train triathletes. I did it online. And one of my athletes asked me one time how do you know when you've trained enough? And I said when you go out for the next long run or long ride and you have nothing left to think about. That's when you're trained.

Brock Briggs  44:32  

Yep. That's very, very true. And I mean, you can apply that to anything too like with walking, go if you've got like a busy mind or something. Like you need to be moving until you don't have anything else to think about. And it's just like empty space in your head.

Lisa Jaster  44:50  

Yes, yes, exactly.

Brock Briggs  44:53  

What I guess other than maybe that little bit of advice. What would you give to anybody? That's especially if you've trained people and maybe you can just directed at me or anybody that's listening that's interested in endurance sports. What do you think is the most beneficial thing that most people aren't doing?

Lisa Jaster  45:19  

The best exercise is the one you'll do. So what people fail to think about is we all wanna be, we all wanna have this body tight, or we wanna be able to eat whatever we want. Or we're focused on hey, I want this image. And so exercise is always part of that equation. You don't lose weight. You don't get off heart meds. You don't gain weight if you're trying to build mass, you don't. 

You know, for me, you don't settle your brain without that those physical fitness activities. So hey, what do I need to do to get skinny? What will you actually do if it's a bar class? If it's water aerobics? If it's you just talked about walking? I think what people don't do, and they really need to do is they need to figure out what they love and what their true goals are. Like, I don't wanna get skinny to get skinny. Looking good in a bikini is only important while I live in Texas. So for like seven months out of the year, it's important. 

But you know, that's getting fit for your wedding day. That's not a long term goal. What can you do that you'll do forever? Like, as you're training for this half Ironman, are you enjoying the training? Or are you drudging through it? And if every dip now 50% of your training is gonna be a drudge, period. Like nobody's that motivated. 

Brock Briggs

Yeah

Lisa Jaster 

But at the end of the week, when you look at your mileage, you're like, “God, damn, that was so much time. Oh, I wasted.” Or you know, you feel just, or “Oh, look at my training next week, I don't know if I have time for it.” If your training makes you anxious, then you probably should do something else. And the most important exercise is the one you're gonna do and that makes you big picture, feel really good about yourself, because then you'll keep doing it.

Brock Briggs  47:22  

Well, and I think that that's sustainable goal, like that idea of like a sustainable long term thing is one of the largest problems that I see from somebody that likes to do this stuff with people, with their eating, with exercise. It's like, it's a chore. But you're, and it is. It's a chore in that it's like kind of a drudge. But the ideal long term thing is to get to the point where it's like, I am looking forward to like, my walk or whatever it is where it's not just like a checkbox thing. 

And you're like, like you said, fitness is more of like a mental thing for you. It's like just it's not like this tiny little thing. It's like you're it's kind of in your life and your life doesn't need to revolve around it. But it's something that's, I think non-negotiable and helps with the mental health. At least, non-negotiable for me. I think that we see eye to eye on the mental clarity and the other benefits that that brings.

Lisa Jaster  48:29  

But for those people who are challenged to on how to get going, like maybe they're a body that isn't in motion, and they're having problems, beating that initial getting that inertia started. Those people, it's simple to put it on the calendar. Like we don't wanna go to the dentist, but we do it every six months to a year or at least you should. I guess not everybody does. 

But you know, you don't wanna go to the doctors. I definitely have days where going to church is pretty hard. Just different things like oh my god, I have all these other things to do. But putting your workouts on your calendar like you would any other appointment and even including on your calendar reminder, today's a five mile run at you know in AARP or PRE, perceived rate of exertion and have that time blocked off like you would any other time and block off time to shower and block off time to have your pre workout snack. 

And if you put it on your calendar like anything else, it also starts becoming a routine and it stops being, “Okay, well I'll do it an hour. And I really gotta make one more phone call.” Like just starting it as a routine and finding a way to fit it into your day sometimes relieves the stress of having to work out.

Brock Briggs  49:57  

Yeah, well and make it a priority. It's not something that's just, you know, if I get to it, anything that's like if I have time doesn't happen.

Lisa Jaster 

Right

Brock Briggs

I'm a very firm believer that everybody has the time and money for the things that are important to them. And whatever's on that list happens and what's not doesn't. So kind of a good exercise in just looking at what's important to you as kind of an individual. I want to take this topic and because I think that it plays into the next question that I wanna ask you, something you probably get asked about a lot. You went to Ranger School, correct?

Lisa Jaster  50:42  

Yeah, I did. Yup, 2015.

Brock Briggs  50:46  

First of all, like, that's so cool. If all of my notes and reading are accurate, you're one of the first women to get the Tab. You were 37 when the average age is 23. 

Lisa Jaster

Yup

Brock Briggs 

That's, congratulations. Like, that's so cool. And like a very monumental time in history. But one that should have happened probably earlier. But still cool and powerful, nonetheless. Was that everything that you thought it would be?

Lisa Jaster  51:19  

Interesting. I think I didn't have many expectations. So the physical aspects of it. So physical fitness, believe it or not, does not come easy for me. I've had two shoulder surgeries and a hip surgery, all very important joints, if you're going to rock for days and days on end. Needless to say

Brock Briggs

I’m guessing it would be.

Lisa Jaster

And when you're 37, you don't recover real quick. That's that kind of compounds the soreness and all the fun stuff. So was it everything I expected it to be? I expected it to be an opportunity of a lifetime. And if I didn't say yes, I would have to go back at my life and have a regret. So I did it. Because since as early as I can remember, my mom has always said to me, never say I could have, I should have, or I would have. So even though I was 37, when the opportunity came up, I thought, “Man, if I say no to this opportunity, I'm gonna say I could have I should have or I would have, and that would kill my mother, and everything that I've been raised to believe in.”

Brock Briggs  52:36  

I think that that's a good philosophy to live by. Did you feel like there was extra focus on you? I would imagine like being in the first class that that's anytime that there's a drastic shift in personnel or if the rules are changing. I imagine there's kind of like a weird error of something feeling off to maybe the instructors or other people there. Did you feel any like type of way from the other people, the instructors, other people in the course. Anything like that?

Lisa Jaster  53:17  

Oh, yeah, I mean, we were complete freaks, like nobody knew what to do with us. Everybody had these grand thoughts. The packing list for the first integrated class changed, like 15 times in less than a month. It was add sports bras, and then it was a different amount of sports bras and then it was adding feminine products. 

And then it was specifying what type then they added you must be on birth control. Like, what? Who is even talking about this? Like they just, they got so freaked out that, of course, as a 37 year old woman who's a hunter, a mother, I camp. I've been in the military for more than a minute. I've done a ton of stuff. And nobody ever had to tell me, hey, you need to take care of your girliness. Like, nobody's ever had to tell me that my whole life. 

And now I have the Department of the Army listing off options for birth control for me to go to a training school. And so it was so hard for everybody. They just freaked out. What kind of sports bras could we wear? Do they have to be cotton? Well, some types of sports bras work and don't work in sweaty environments. Like come on now. Let's not outline this. So there was that before we ever got there. 

Then the hair standards changed. Men have to shave their heads. Women had to keep their hair at least a quarter inch long because a shaved head on a woman is considered a faddish haircut. So it made us stick out even more, right? Because that's fashionable. I mean, I can see braids and cornrows but not a shaved head. So this you know, the army regulations just weren't ready for this and then nobody showed up. And people wanted to do the right thing. But we were so busy trying to think what the right thing might be. We missed common sense in a couple of steps along the way. 

But the great thing is once the first 19 of us got on deck with our quarter inch of hair, and our properly outlined bras, etc, our classmates were freaked out. And then it didn't matter. We were all tired. We were all hungry. As long as the women could hold their rucksacks over their head and do squats as long as the men could, it didn't matter. And, you know, we did stick out. We stuck out because we had longer hair. We stuck out because we had higher voices. We stuck out because we had to shower at a different time as the men, but so did the couple of minorities because there's not a lot of black, Hispanic, etc. 

So there's not a lot of skin diversity, skin tone diversity in the Ranger School formations for whatever reason. And there's not a lot of guys that come wearing glasses. So if you wore glasses, you stuck out. If you had a quarter inch of your hair, you stuck out. If your skin was a different color, with a really pasty guys, too, that also stuck out. We had the really tall guy that stuck out. We had a fat guy, I don't know how you get to Ranger School and you're chubby.

But we had a chunky guy that could move his own weight, like nobody's business did great on the five mile run, but he was thick. Well, everybody wanted to help him lose weight. So there was a bunch of people that stuck out. So the way I dealt with the fact that we were getting a little bit extra attention was that the really tall guy next to me who wears glasses and had acne, he also was getting yelled at extra because your eye naturally catches whatever sticks out. 

And we stuck out. But yeah, after that first day, our classmates kind of were like, “Okay, well, we've got girls.” Yeah, move on. The hardest challenge was for the Ranger instructors. Now here's a group of people that come in have to train us, but then they leave. And they're exposed to the media. There was newspaper articles. There was Congressionals. There was TVs, TV cameras, news cameras. There was their buddies sending them text messages. They would be as professional as they could possibly be at the school. And then they would go home. 

And all the unprofessional rubbish that was out there about integrating Ranger School was thrown directly at these poor guys, like I actually felt bad for him. And then they had to come back the next day and work another 12 hour shift and pretend to like, “I'm just another Ranger student.” So for me, the professionalism of the Ranger instructors, even the ones that struggled with integration is beyond reproach. 

Like, I can't imagine what kind of shit they were getting from their peers for lack of a more professional way of saying, it had to be really hard. And the fact that, you know, we saw a little bit of differential treatment. But some of it might have just been the fact that I was 5’4 and 37 years old, and had a high voice and not necessarily, I’m a girl.

Brock Briggs  58:24  

Yeah, I would imagine that would be such a weird thing. And a little bit of that maybe because the military's history, we talk about, like just tradition. And this is like a very, very slippery slope, because there are a lot of “traditions” about how the things that are done that are directly in the way of the military progressing as an organization towards more equal opportunity. And so I would imagine that there was maybe some crusty, old instructors that maybe had something to say internally, maybe whether or not they said it's another story. But I'm imagining that in my head of

Lisa Jaster 

Oh, yeah. 

Brock Briggs 

Oh, not in my army kind of chat. I gotta hate that. But yeah, I.

Lisa Jaster  59:24  

But that actually goes back to where we started, you know, talking about leadership and World War l and World War ll, versus a more family inclusive leadership style now. Like the people we have that are willing to raise their hand and fight and die for our nation do not look like they did 60 years ago, and part of that is because we no longer have to bake our own bread. 

So we don't need somebody home all day to do domestic tasks. What does that mean? That means in a two parent household, both parents can easily work and still feed the kids and have a clean home and still be productive, etc, etc, etc. And so the world has changed a ton since the 1940s. And the Army is catching up. I think we're actually probably ahead. 

The military is ahead in a lot of areas. But yes, it is. It is hard, but my dad graduated Ranger School in 1968. And I figured if that crusty old Ranger can be okay with his daughter going, the same guy who didn't even want me joining the army, definitely these 30 somethings can figure out how to be okay with it.

Brock Briggs  1:00:37  

What a cool follow up of a legacy. I didn't realize that your dad had also been one. Did he look at you different? Or say anything that was meaningful after the fact?

Lisa Jaster  1:00:49  

Oh, you know what, it's actually a very horrible, depressing story.

Brock Briggs  1:00:54  

If you don't mind sharing it, now I gotta hear it. 

Lisa Jaster  1:00:56  

Of course. Of course. So, you know, the worst part about Ranger School for me is I recycled every face. And it was terrible. But oddly enough, somebody had to, like one of the females had to stay in austere environment for an extended period of time. So that all the arguments against, “Hey, women are physically fit enough, but they can't survive in the field for extended periods of time.” That argument had to be beaten away. 

And what better way than having a 37 year old mother of two who's a part time soldier who had to buy uniforms in order to go to Ranger School because I only had one and I needed five. What better to have me at Ranger School for six months? Well, I recycled Florida, not many people recycle Florida. And that's the third and final phase of Ranger School. And when I found out I recycled, I got my mail that same day. 

And when I opened my mail, I had a very artfully written letter from my husband that said, “Hey, your dad's sick. You need to call him whenever you have time. Give me a call.” So I called my husband, got the 411, understood that my dad was sick. He said, “Hey, your dad does not want you to know about this. So don't tell him I told you.” He said, “Oh, I don’t know. I don't know what to do. You dad’s gonna kick my ass,” kind of thing. So I called my dad and he's barely able to talk. It turns out he had an extremely rare form of cancer of a gland in his neck and a salt, Salvatore? I can't say it gland, less than 2000 cases reported worldwide. 

And he had gone through and they had tried to remove the cancer surgically, ended up removing part of the jawbone. And my father was always an extremely handsome man. Like even at 69, he had that strong jaw, the military brush hair cut. With four fused or three fused vertebrae in his back and open ulcers on his legs and gout, he would walk down a flight of stairs every single morning and lift weights. I mean, he jacked steel, like he had 100 pound kettlebell type jacking steel. 

And this guy was a monster, just amazing in so many ways. And now on the phone, I can barely understand him because his jaw has been partially removed. And so I'm finding out about this when I recycle Florida. I call home. It's a huge kick in the gut. It turns out, he wasn't able to fly down for my Ranger School graduation because he was so sick. Had I graduated, had I not recycled Florida, he would have been able to come down. So he was not able to attend the graduation. I did get to see him a couple more times before he had finally passed away.

But when I did see him those couple of times, we were talking more of hey, Are you right with God type discussions and not really, hey, here's our Ranger School experience. We didn't get to really tell a lot of stories there. So that was really unfortunate. It was an opportunity missed for me. It's also one of those things where I kind of kicked myself because if I had done a little bit better, maybe I could have shared that really happy moment with my dad. 

But I did take, I had a drive on Tab. And that I had been given by a guy I never met. A drive on Tab is somebody who has gone to Ranger School previously sending you his Tab. Now, I had one from one of my classmates. He took it off his uniform, gave it to me and said you give this back to me upon graduation. I gave that one back to him. I did get a second drive on Tab from a guy I didn't know who was no longer active service. And I carry that with me every day that I was in the field. It was in my left breast pocket next to my heart. And it is now in the casket with my dad.

Brock Briggs  1:05:10  

Wow. This is a good thing that we don't have might not be showing this on video because I'm here getting choked up. What a powerful story. And I hope that you get to have that conversation someday. What a cool experience. I'm sure that he's very proud. 

Lisa Jaster

I hope so. 

Brock Briggs  

I don't know. I know he would be. I don't even know how to follow that up. 

Lisa Jaster 

I’m so sorry, Brock.

Brock Briggs

No, no, no, you're okay. Thank you so much for sharing that. I know that that's incredibly vulnerable. And I like that kind of stuff. That's good. We need more of it. 

Lisa Jaster 

Yes

Brock Briggs

I wanna close out. We were kind of talking about diversity in the military as a whole and the progression of the army and military as an organization towards more equal opportunity and whatnot. Where else do we still need work? And how do we get there?

Lisa Jaster  1:06:21  

I'm gonna start with the “how do we get there,” honestly. So without identifying the end state, we talked about diversity all the time. And my favorite diversity example is my last command major from Louisiana. African American, actually Creole like I don't call them African American, but it was dark skinned, had a Louisiana accent. It's really even hard to say that. And we looked nothing like he was a solid eight or nine inches taller than me. 

Here we are as a command team. We literally looked like we were at two diverse ends of the spectrum. Well, I worked for Shell Oil Company for 12 years. He works for an energy company. He lives in Houston. Now I live in Houston for 10 years. Truthfully, we were of one mind. When I would say something he's like, “Yep, right on now.” So even though he and I looked like we covered the whole spectrum of the rainbow, in truth, there was no cognitive diversity. So that leadership team, that command team was not a diverse team in reality. 

And so where we are failing, and this is my personal opinion, not a military opinion. But where we are failing is we're so busy thinking about building a beautiful cornucopia of human beings that we neglect why we're looking for diversity. And so starting with the how and getting back to where or what we're failing on, the how we fix it is we have to make sure that people from every background have an opportunity either in corporate America or the military, but have the opportunity to apply. 

They're exposed. We recruit. We need to go into the intercity, and we need to go to the red natkho downtown. Like we need to have our recruiters out there grabbing every able body and bringing them into this beautiful organization of mixed races and genders and religions and creeds. And make sure that everybody has that one goal to fight and serve our nation. But also, they have the opportunity to not. So I don't want you because you're black or white, or male or female or gay or straight or trans. That's not what I want. I want your diversity of thought. 

So we need to recruit diversity of thought by going into diverse communities, and recruiting all of the appropriate personnel. But we don't have to hire them just because of their adjectives. And I actually have a book coming out this year called Delete The Adjective. The whole idea is, I wanna be awesome because of who I am not because I'm a female soldier, not because I'm an older engineer. Like I don't want any of those adjectives to matter. I wanna be awesome for the capabilities I bring. 

So again, what do we need to do? We need to recruit in diverse communities, but we need to hire based on capabilities and truly be a meritocracy. And so we're what we're failing at is we're failing at looking at what people truly bring to the table. If you are a white Trumpster, let's get back into politics because it's so easy even though I keep saying I don't wanna talk about Politics. If you're a white Trumpster, or you're a black Trumpster, you're still a Trumpster. 

If you’re with Hillary Clinton and you're a female, or you're a male, that hat wears in, I'm with her button, just because you're a male and and she's a female, doesn't mean you're diverse, if you're of one mind, so what we're failing at is we're looking at diversity, I think through an inappropriate lens. And that's, I don't wanna build a pretty cornucopia. I wanna build diversity of thought, so that we can grow and bring innovation into our community. And by looking for diversity of thought, we will naturally get that cultural diversity. I could be wrong.

Brock Briggs  1:10:51  

I really liked that. I think that that's a unique way of looking at it, cognitive diversity, and really thought of it or heard it put that way before but I like that. I'll be looking forward to reading your book. Where can people go to and I kind of wanna plug you here. Where can people go to find out more about you and hear more about the book?

Lisa Jaster  1:11:18  

So God willing, my manuscript is with the editors right now. So I don't have a deadline or a timeline yet. But I do have a website. I think it's just lisa or deletetheadjective.com. And I don't even know that for sure. But I am very active on social media, specifically Instagram, Twitter. I love LinkedIn, Facebook. I will not accept on my personal account.

But I do have Lisa Jaster Delete The Adjective account, where I throw out a lot of my humble opinions. Again, not representative of the military, just Lisa Jaster and I talk about this a lot. I'm one of the partners in an organization called the Talent War, or it's called Talent War group. And we do executive coaching, leadership coaching and keynote speaking. And that is actually I publish a lot of blogs there on their various media sites as well. Talent worker.

Brock Briggs  1:12:22  

Awesome. I'll be sure to include that in the show notes.

Lisa Jaster 

Awesome!

Brock Briggs

And people can follow up with you there. Lisa, thank you so much for your time. 

Lisa Jaster 

Thank you, Brock.