Dec. 21, 2022

The Fool's Journey

On this fifth episode of #rhatcherylive, hosts Matt Perez and Jose Leal chat with Brian Curtis, CEO of Decentralized Systems, on why creating a sustainable future requires taking a path of zero inertia.

On this fifth episode of #rhatcherylive, hosts Matt Perez and Jose Leal chat with Brian Curtis, CEO of Decentralized Systems, on why creating a sustainable future requires taking a path of zero inertia.


Matt Perez (00:03):

Hi, my name is Matt Perez. And I think we're live now. And I'm with Jose Leal. We're both from and we're interviewing Brian Curtis from Decentralized Systems. And in general, we talk about the problems that we see coming from the perspective of guests. So we like to hear what guests have to say about it, what they're doing about it, and what else do we need to do about it. So with that, why don't we give you a chance, Brian, to introduce yourself and say a little bit about what you're doing?

Brian Curtis (00:41):

Yeah, thanks. So what do I do? That's a really good question, you know, that changes daily and it's kind of the path that I've been on in the last year. I left my job in November of last year to create software to decentralize decision-making because I saw a problem that I thought needed to be solved. You know, every large group usually is controlled by a smaller group, and it's really hard to access all that information to make really good decisions. So, I started working with some software companies to kind of design what it should look like. And, you know, during that process I just became more and more aware of other problems, you know, cause there's no way that you can just eliminate conflict by just creating a piece of software, you know, where everybody can just, you know, talk about a solution. So, you know, the real problem is actually just the elimination of conflict, and that's what is if you really understand how everything works around you, then that's what's limiting growth anyway, is conflict. That's the only thing that's limiting growth, whether it's in your body or in a group or a larger group or your community or family. Conflict is always the limiting factor to growth. So, you know, learning how to heal conflict is basically what I do know. And by the time I got to the end of this year, I just learned so much. I just wanted to become available for whoever needed, you know, whatever information that I could provide to heal conflicts in their body or their family, community, business, whatever. So I just decided to write a book. So that's where I'm at.

Matt Perez (02:24):

So, you see the problem as conflict, is that the primary thing that we're dealing with as a society? Not just you, the three of us, but as a society in general.

Brian Curtis (02:36):

Yeah, I think conflict is always the problem that we're dealing with. You know, how well we are able to, how conflicted we are internally so that we can open ourselves and become vulnerable to the people around us. And then usually we kind of attract the same kind of relationships that we go through in life that are at the same level of our personal level of growth. And when you look at it from a higher perspective, you can see that you attracted certain people in your lives at certain times to teach you certain lessons. And it was always about overcoming a conflict, right? Becoming closer, becoming in a closer relationship with somebody. And, you know, I've been in different industries and different businesses over the last 25 years. And the limiting factor was always conflict. If there was no conflict, then the work ran really smoothly. You know, it was really easy to get the job done, everyone worked really well, but as soon as one point of conflict arose, then communication breaks down the work, you know, gets more inefficient. And, you know, you see this problem as businesses grow larger, there's more and more conflict cause there are more people that need to connect and that hierarchal order, you know, gets distorted and, you know, people just start falling into these social clicks and then the information doesn't travel. So, you know, business coaches and consultants have been trying to deal with this problem for a long time and it's just mostly turned into leadership coaching because, you know, you have to kind of teach leaders how to train people, how to break down, you know, lines of communication to make sure that there are no conflicts arising. And that it's always a learning experience instead of, you know, points where people have to stop talking. And so I think there's a lot of methods out there that are good. But, you know, I just kind of wanted to throw what I knew of conflict out there to the community in the form of a book and just see what happens.

Matt Perez (04:30):

Okay. And the problem with conflict, and you said vulnerability. The problem with that in particular in companies is that you are opening yourself to a witness and you're saying, “I have this weakness and world”. And unfortunately, in most corporate scenarios, somebody remembers that as a weakness, even though it doesn't have to be. And then exploit it in one way or another. And so people tend to be very guarded not want to have that kind of vulnerability out in the open. And conflicts become, like what you said, is a [...] thing or in the hallways, it is not out, it's not open in ways that you can deal with it. So what, how do you deal with that?

Brian Curtis (05:32):

It's just understanding, you know, and that's why I'm writing the book because when you people misjudge and just by judging themselves, right? How can I judge myself because every single one of us is growing and we're at a different state of awareness? So how could I judge and make say that this person, you know, by being vulnerable, obviously, that they're exposing themselves and say “Hey, this is a need”. And then if you say, oh, if you make yourself available to a need, then you grow together. Both of you grow at the same time, instead of judging someone's state of awareness, you know, it really doesn't make sense when you really look at everything as a whole. Everything is growing and we're all at different states of growth. And so to judge one person that is in a better place than another doesn't really make sense when you understand that we're all just coming from the same source and in different states of awareness.

Jose Leal (06:28):

So, a question for you, Brian, in regard to your definition of when you say conflict, what are you trying to point at? Because conflict comes in many forms. So, specifically, what are you thinking of when you say that.

Brian Curtis (06:52):

Conflict is any separation of awareness. So, all businesses mostly are conductors and you're moving, let's say energy. You're moving product to the consumer, right? In most businesses. So all of us are conductors, and the conflict is what separates us from expanding our awareness. So as a business grows bigger, its awareness grows larger, right? So you're overcoming conflicts in order to grow bigger. Anytime you're expanding your awareness, you're breaking down conflicts. For example, a dam is a conflict in a river, you know, that's why they call a rapid in a river a conflict because it's a slowing down of the energy that's traveling in that system. So any conflict is basically just a slowing down of light energy from one point of awareness to another. And that's the reality that we live in. I mean, there's a conflict between these two fingers right here, right? It's just a feel interaction. There has to be a conflict there. Otherwise, it would, my hand would merge into one hand, you know, just a blob. So it's learning to deal with communicating through our differences and, you know, how we can serve one another. We create more contract conflict when we try to control something. So like, if you're trying to control a river, you create a conflict or put a dam in it to siphon energy out of it and conflicts, you know, invariably end up causing pain because you're breaking down lines of energy and communication in the body. You know, any conflict in the body just brings pain.

Jose Leal (08:29):

So, it sounds like what we call force is that, would that be a synonym that you would apply to conflict? Just for clearly say.

Brian Curtis (08:40):

Well, it's just any separation, basically. Any point of separation. Yeah. Between anything that slows down, you know, between any energy system, any slowing down of energy is a conflict, you know, and it, we've actually seen recently that cancer's been shown that it's just a breakdown of communication between the cells and your body. And so cells start to get cancerous when they're not communicating as well. So, you know, there's obviously a conflict there, if the information isn't traveling, so your body grows cancerous. That's why sugar is so bad, you know, for your lymphatic systems. You know, my mom actually passed away from cancer five years ago because, you know, she was not as active in her later years and she just, she ate a lot of sugar, and it ended up clogging her lymphatic system and it grew cancerous.

Jose Leal (09:36):

So you've got a book you're writing, is that, what's the title of that?

Brian Curtis (09:42):

There's only One Heart, that's the title.

Jose Leal (09:46):

So it's different than the title of today's conversation.

Brian Curtis (09:51):

Well, you know, if you read the book, you'll probably realize it's all related, everything's related. You know, it doesn't matter if you're talking about zero inertia or following your heart or the fool's journey. It's all about the fact that all of us basically are sharing one heart, and that's why it feels good when we grow closer together and bad, when we move farther apart, right? In our relationships, it always feels good when a family grows closer together and, you know, people are communicating well and we feel like we're growing closer. But when we're growing apart, there's pain, there's emotional pain. And the reason is because there's really only one heart. You know, if you look at the model of your biofield, everything is collapsing to one point and there's always, everything else is moving, but there's always one point in time-space that is just, is static. And the further you look out, there's always just one point. There's only, there's always one heart for a system.

Matt Perez (10:51):

So, getting back to the topic, do you see a problem as conflicts or separations? And so what are you doing about it? What you're writing the book software.

Brian Curtis (11:15):

I've got a dog in the background. Sorry guys. Hold on.

Jose Leal (11:32):

That's a first.

Brian Curtis (11:34):

Sorry about that guys. I'm back.

Matt Perez (11:38):


Brian Curtis (11:39):

Oh yeah, it's my son's little dog. She's about this big, and then if anybody shows up, she comes screaming, she goes into alert mode, right? Danger.

Matt Perez (11:51):

She has to conflict.

Brian Curtis (11:52):

Oh yeah. She's very conflicted. She's one of the most conflicted dogs.

Matt Perez (12:00):

So, I would say what are you doing? What are you doing about it? What are your clients doing about it? What is this concept of zero inertia? Is that part of what you're doing? Or, I'm not quite sure.

Brian Curtis (12:14):

Yeah. zero inertia, I'll just answer the zero inertia question, if that's all right. Zero inertia is just the idea of you really don't know what tomorrow brings, and you're kind of putting yourself in a state of service to just be, you know, wherever you're needed. Then you just get pulled to, and the reason I'm writing the, you know, the book is because I think that's the best way to give knowledge. You know, I don't want somebody to have to come through me to learn how to, you know, the best ways to avoid conflict or break breakdown conflicts. Right? I think sharing knowledge is, you know, one of the best things that we can do. And then we grow as that because we're kind of breathing life into each other, you know, because I'm not the end I’ll be all of all knowledge, you know, I want to share my knowledge so that somebody can say, “hey, look”, and then they can work off of that platform. So, you know, and that's how we grow as a society, you know, just as sharing that knowledge. So just getting the knowledge out there as much as possible will, you know, create that expedited growth.

Matt Perez (13:30):

So, I take it zero inertia has to do with being on your toes all the time, being not on your toes. I didn't mean it that way but being ready to accept new things is that.

Brian Curtis (13:46):

Yeah, just be able, you know, if someone calls me tomorrow and say, “Hey, I want you to fly to California”, and, you know, meet me for coffee. You know, if I have this preset idea that I need to do this and this, and this, then maybe I'm not listening to where I should be going. Because, you know, we're living in this giant ecosystem where if I let my ego get in the way, then I'm just creating conflict right? And I'm not just serving the way I probably need to serve. It's the idea of not having any kind of preconceived idea of what I should be doing tomorrow or the next day. You know, if someone calls me and says, “Hey, we need you here”, then I just say, “okay”, that's where I'm needed. You know, and to use your intuition to kind of decipher what's best.

Matt Perez (14:37):

Got it. But doesn't that go counter to what you said if you try to control something, you create conflict and businesses are all about control, right?

Brian Curtis (14:51):

Pretty much. Yeah. That's why they create so much conflict within their business.

Matt Perez (14:55):

So, yeah. No, I quite agree. So, if that's a problem, how do you get rid of that conflict within businesses

Brian Curtis (15:08):

Within a business? Understanding roles and responsibilities, so a business is, imagine it's just like your body, you know, the tree diagram or an org chart, and a business is exactly the way your body runs. The CEO or the head of the business is the heart of the business, right? Well, your heart doesn't control anything in your body. Your heart serves the entire body. If your heart tried to control any part of your body, other parts of the body would die. So, because you're reversing the flow of the service and control circuit, the business is controlled by what? It's connected to the product to the consumer, right? Product controls, the business, and consumers control the business. So the business is controlled from the outside in. And the reason that OSHA and all these things exist is that for time and memorial, they've reversed that hierarchical order, and people try to control from the inside out. And because of that, you've got groups that, you know, can't actually control their own work environments. You have somebody else saying, “Hey, this is how you need to do it”. And so accidents, you know, and then lack effort in their work. You know, everybody likes to go home because they control the work that they like to do, right? But a lot of times when you go to work, you don't have control over the work that you do. And so, you just, right, they'll just break down and they say, well, yeah, I don't want to do that. And understanding that circuit in the body is really important. There’re other problems though, that also arise from, you know, loss mitigation groups, cause we have a lot of outside controls that businesses can't avoid, like OSHA or, you know, discriminatory requirements, or people start to feel entitled, and then that causes conflicts in your business. So it's not just the control service circuit in the business, there are outside controls that are also causing conflict, and there are ways to solve those problems. They just haven't seen anybody actually doing it because it would probably take money from the legal industry. So I don't see anybody solving those problems successfully.

Matt Perez (17:11):

So, Jose, I don't know if you have.

Jose Leal (17:14):

Yeah, I was just going to ask Brian how you solve them in the organization. Understand what you're saying about those external forces, but what's the way of it, you said communication is the way to solve the problem but give us some examples of how communication solves the problem. If the heart of the organization is the CEO and the CEO is saying, this is what I want you to do, how do we solve that problem?

Brian Curtis (17:50):

That's a good question. And let's say if I'm the heart, you know, you always have an intent for the heart. So, the CEO always has an intent for the company, right? He always says, well, this is my intent. This is what I would like you guys to do. You're going to make whatever. And then let those work groups control those work environments. And one thing that you can do to fix the hierarchal order, so that doesn't break down, is to allow teams to select their own supervisors. When you're having supervisors, select supervisors, you don't really know, you don't haven't worked with those people. So you don't really know who the leader in that group is. You can go to any work group in this country and talk to that workgroup, and they'll point to the same person, and it's like, this is the one, this is the guy, or this is the girl that we want to run this group. But nine times out of 10, that person doesn't get selected because, A, they don't want the job. And B, because they know it's a service job that they're going to have to serve those people. And B you know, the person that wants the job is the one who wants control. So anybody that wants control is the worst person for the job. And the person that doesn't want control, that wants to serve everybody is the best person for the job. So, if you switch it around and have the workgroups select their own leaders, then you get to have a situation where in meetings, he's the leader has to listen because they realize that everybody that they're talking to is in charge of their job. Now they have to actually serve that group, you know, and vice versa, they don't have to serve that group because somebody else is in charge of their job. And so they could talk all day long and not listen to a word anybody says, and it doesn't matter, right? So that's one solution.

Jose Leal (19:37):

So, you've used serving quite a lot, which is I think a great way of framing the issue. What are we serving? Like you're talking.

Brian Curtis (19:51):

We're always serving each other. I'd like to say that I'm serving you guys, but I mean by mean on the show and you're serving me. So, we're always serving each other in ways, you know, and in family settings or communities, you're always listening to people's needs and then serving them. You know, if I went to somebody and I wanted to control what they think, then I'm just going to control, I'm going to cause conflict. Whereas if I just come up to somebody and say, if they ask me a question and then I say something, and then we have this interchange of energies where we're kind of serving each other and growing together, then you're really serving each other, right? Because you're both exchanging energies freely and you're learning from each other. So yeah, I mean that it's a service versus control ideology. So control always brings conflict, and that's how you control something, is you create a conflict, right? Like I use the river example, you know, you're always creating conflict by controlling and in serving, you're always eliminating conflict, and you're always listening first. You have to listen first and see what is needed. And so, you know, that's what really started on me on this journey is I tried to listen to what was needed because I was working in work groups that were very dysfunctional, and I've seen people get hurt badly, very almost to the point of death. You know, I've seen people get burned really bad. I've seen people get smashed, you know, it doesn't matter what it is. And it's always because there's breakdowns and communication where, you know, maybe somebody didn't hear somebody else. And it was always because of relationship conflicts, it really didn't have anything to do with, you know, outside safety restrictions. It was always about how well people were communicating.

Matt Perez (21:40):

So how do you make that change happen from controlled to service as you call it?

Brian Curtis (21:47):

I think, you know, I'm trying to move in that direction right now. I just, you know, that's why I believe that knowledge is one of the most powerful tools we have, because if you're not aware of something, then it controls you. The limit of our awareness is what we could, you know, we're controlled by, for example, a tree is controlled by the sun and soil. You know, if the trees expanded, its awareness to include the sun and the earth. It wouldn't be a tree anymore. But it'd have more knowledge, you know? So, the more knowledge you have the less you're not aware of something if it controls you. For example, if I had don't know that there was a thief coming into my house and stealing all my stuff, then he is going to keep stealing my stuff until I know that he was doing that. And then I can stop that process. So knowledge is really how to solve those problems.

Matt Perez (22:41):

And that's where you write in the book.

Brian Curtis (22:43):


Matt Perez (22:43):

It makes sense. Now you make sense. That all makes sense. So knowledge is what causes, and fixes the problem of people wanting to control things that they really shouldn't control and causing conflicts and stuff like that. So I understand.

Brian Curtis (23:04):

Yeah. And solutions to other problems to create contracts where, you know, to empower people instead of feeling like they're powerless. We are way more powerful than we realize, you know, and empowerment is, has been a big issue, right? In the last couple of years. People want to be self-empowered, and we really become empowered when we become in service to each other. You know, we are taking power away from ourselves if we're trying to control each other, all, when we really become in service to the people around us, that really is what truly empowers people to, you know, just serve in whatever way that they are being directed to serve.

Jose Leal (23:45):

So, I've got a couple of questions that this line of thinking takes me, Brian, because you talked about if we talk about or communicate with one another, we can actually get a, you know, choose the supervisor. And the question I ask is, why do we need a supervisor? If we're communicating clearly amongst ourselves, why do we need a supervisor?

Brian Curtis (24:17):

There's, you know, there's always going to be it's just like branches of your cardiovascular system. If you looked at your cardiovascular system, it's kind of built like that. And you're always going to need points where you're going to get a switch for communication between like an IT department or an engineering department. You know, in a group, there's always going to be different departments where people are working separately from each other, and you've got to have that person switch that information to make sure that those departments are working together. For example, in the past, and I've seen this happen where I, especially now, IT departments are trying to keep up with software requirements, and if they go in the wrong direction, it can actually cut departments off of information. Whereas if they had better communication, they could have worked together to maybe, you know, synergistically move together, and learn together so that nobody's losing access to, let's say, you know, prints or other pieces of information that they need in the software. So, I believe there's always going to be a need for supervisors and, you know, to create switches for information and energy to run.

Jose Leal (25:25):

But I'm not sure I understand your analogy because you're talking about the cardiovascular system, there's a split, but there's no one there that says, “Hey, some of your blood go this way, and some of your blood go that way”. That happens because of the structure of the environment, not because of the individual that's put in place to be the cop that says, you go left, you go, right? So I understand that there are structural differences. Not every vessel is the same, and the blood doesn't flow to every vessel in the same way, but it's not an individual that gets put in place that gets to make that decision. There isn't a single cell or a single organ that decides this is where that needs to happen. Right. Is that fair?

Brian Curtis (26:24):

Yeah, well, the branch is, you know, size to how much energy and information is moving through that system, right? And the same thing could be said for your nervous system, you know, the branching effect kind of looks similar between the two. So, you're always going to have a branching effect where energy is moving from one point or another, whether he is just handing out paychecks, right? I mean, the paychecks got to come from somewhere, and somebody's got to keep track of the energy moving from the system and then back through the system. So, you're always going to have somebody there that's got to keep track of budgeting for that, you know, for each and everything. So, it's just going to look the same because you're still doing the same thing. It's just in a bigger group, it's just manifesting as something different, whether you're keeping track of budgets or, you know, all of that. You're moving energy and information

Jose Leal (27:21):

That makes very much sense to me as an organic process rather than a control process. Because again, I see the idea of putting a supervisor in place as a non-organic process.

Brian Curtis (27:41):

Right. And traditionally that's what it's been. And that's why you create conflict when you do that instead of placing somebody there just to move energy.

Jose Leal (27:55):

So, tell us a little bit more about the idea of the book. And we're going to wrap up in a couple of minutes here, but I just wanted to get a sense of what is it that you hope the book does.

Brian Curtis (28:16):

Yeah, the book more than anything, I hope it makes people realize how close we are to one another and how we need to grow closer as a community and to serve one another better instead of, you know, I think Covid taught us more than anything that it hurts all of us when we have to spend time in isolation away from each other, you know? And that the fear of getting sick is something that is, will keep us from spending time together. And unfortunately, you know, I mean, from my standpoint, I would rather risk getting sick and spend time with my family than not spend time with my family. You know, I think any kind of fear that separates is harmful. And that includes, it doesn't matter if you're talking about your family or your business, and, you know, that's why the name of the book is There's Only One Heart because it always feels better when you're growing closer and it feels worse when you're going farther apart. You know, nobody likes to go to work when nobody's getting along. Everyone wants to go to work when everybody's getting along. And, you know, you're enjoying the people that you're working with, and nobody's fighting. So, you know, breaking down conflicts and understanding that that should be our number one priority, I think is really the goal of the book. And to follow your heart and just become a service and whatever way you feel is necessary.

Jose Leal (29:39):

Awesome. Thank you. Matt, did you want to wrap it up?

Matt Perez (29:42):

Yeah, I think that with that, we we'll wrap up the discussion and thank you, Brian, for your time and you know, the way you spoke to us and everything else the next show is on January the fourth and it'll be Cliff Berg. He's a managing partner at Agile 2 Academy. So we'll be talking about Agile and how he compares it to others, to the things, and particularly he wants, I think he wants to talk about what is going wrong with Agile and why agile is too. So thank you very much, Brian, for your time.

Brian Curtis (30:23):

Thanks, Matt and Jose both. I loved meeting you guys.

Jose Leal (30:26):

Yeah, it was a pleasure.


Brian CurtisProfile Photo

Brian Curtis


Brian has worked in the private and public electrical industry for the last 25 years. He experienced a variety of breakdowns within various work environments, all rooted in breakdowns in communication. Communication breakdowns lead to misunderstanding and mistrust across an entire system of people.

This led him to create a software solution to fix communication breakdowns. How could this work you might ask? Any corporate group behaves like a larger organism. I created a decentralized decision-making platform to emulate the characteristics of a living organism. Feedback from the marketplace and within a group becomes near instantaneous leading to increased growth and revenue.

The system virtually eliminates the need for meetings and allows everyone to focus on their primary roles and responsibilities. Uninformed decisions become a thing of the past. Feel free to contact me! I love meeting new people!