WWE’s Big ESPN Deal, WWE vs. AEW Heats Up & Kross Contract Fallout | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #809 – 08/14/25

0:00 It's still real to me! Dammit! [music] What up, eeeh! [music] Welcome everybody! Welcome to this week's edition of "The So Real This Show" Episode of our 809 for August 14, 2025 Welcome to this week's edition of "Ask RT You." I am one after the show. I am Jeff Peck. joined every single week when I go as a lonely doctor, Tray Franklin. Dr. Tray, I just signed up for my annual subscription of peacock about two weeks ago, my friend.

0:46 [laughs] So I'm on month to month and that's why I refuse to do anything that much of a long-term commitment just for somebody else to bite me in the ass. So I hope you like all the additions of the office. I do. Maybe some new additions of the spin-off show, the paper that's coming out soon. Maybe, I don't know what else peacock has. I know they have the office. I think they have like one NFL playoff game. They are going to have the NBA on NBC, which I'm a 90s kid. So that's nostalgic. Yeah, I don't know what else they have because I just went there for WWE.

1:27 And now WWE is going to a new place. So maybe, maybe they keep the library, maybe they keep NXT PLEs? Who knows? Because, yeah, there's a big change there. As we'll kick off this week's edition of the show with a big story that WWE and ESPN announced a deal to carry premium live events starting in 2026. It is in the billion with a B range. I believe it's around 1.6 billion for five years this deal with WWE and ESPN. It's about $180 million more a year than they were making from the peacock deal that they signed five years ago now. Yeah, it's funny because I just got an email back in June that my subscription, my annual subscription for peacock was coming up.

2:15 And I was like, man, I don't think they're going back to peacock because they don't do a lot of original programming on there anymore. I think the most recent one was the documentary on WrestleMania 9. And outside of that, there is nothing. Like the only reason why I go to peacock for WWE content now is the PLEs. That's it. So, I was like, I don't know if I want to renew it. I want to do month a month potentially. And I looked online, which is my mistake, and it said that the peacock deal lasted until March, 2026. So, I thought to myself, I was like, I'll screw it. I'll do the annual subscription. I'll keep it.

2:55 And then it, you know, I won't renew it in July, 2026. Who knows? Maybe something comes up. Maybe they renew with peacock. And then literally like two weeks later, they announced the deal with ESPN. And I was like, you have got to be shitting me. But I guess, Dr. Trey, that if, which I'm still trying to get clarity on, if you are someone who is a cable, has cable service or several streaming services, you may get this direct to consumer ESPN product that they're now pushing for free, along with your regular account. So, there is no additional money. And I have the streaming service of Direct TV from my regular television.

3:37 Direct TV is in there. And I chatted with Direct TV online last week to find out about this. They had no answers, which is shocking. But, yeah, this actually may work out for some people out there, Dr. Trey. But this is a big deal. WWE Pay Per Views, PLEs, will be on ESPN moving forward in 2026. Yeah, no, it's a huge deal. And in some ways actually legitimizes WWE more. And they played with this in the past. Like we saw the ESPN WWE Crosswear for a little bit a couple of years ago, where they were talking about WWE on like sports center stuff.

4:21 You had Ad Non-Virt come over to post Raw or to run, you know, be played by play on Raw. So it does and give like a little bit of legitimacy to WWE kind of like they've done with UFC in the past. But for me, it does raise a lot of questions because like I cut all my satellite, all my cable stuff out. We do have the Hulu Disney+ ESPN bundle. But then reading into it, I'm like, wait, do I have to pay for something? Do I have to go to get the Hulu Live subscription or and they're getting in Disney's getting away from Hulu completely and they're gonna incorporate everything under one umbrella.

5:02 So it makes things a little tricky, but just on the numbers alone, $189 million a year extra. Like man, that's an amazing number to kind of throw out there considering like where we were at just 15 years ago. I mean the amount of money being thrown around to all these companies is crazy, but it's a great move. I mean it puts ESPN probably is easier for people to access than Peacock or Peacock as a road dog, you should say. So it's a great move for them on that level. It just does kind of like leave people like us kind of in limbo where it's like, okay, so how is this whole thing going to play out?

5:43 What do I got to do? I hate last minute stuff, so just let me know what we're gonna do and I'm good. Just don't leave me in a lurch where I'm not understanding where we're going. Yeah, when the deal was announced, I think it was last Friday morning and I saw it online very early and when they did it was like around the 6 am east hour. And I was like, oh crap. I started doing the first off, oh crap because the Peacock stuff, I was like, damn it, I just re-up this. I started looking into if I can cancel my annual subscription and I don't believe I can, which is fine. I'm actually under the price that I guess it's gonna raise up to $169 a year and I just re-up for $139, which for like the PLEs, just really watching PLEs, it's not worth it.

6:30 Sorry folks, I'm not a love island guy, not my thing. I know, I know, shocking. I do love the office, the stock to trade point it out, but I'm old school, so I was like, we used to pay $50 a show for pay-per-views. So still look at that as a nice deal. Nonetheless, and then I was like $29.99 a month, oh my god, this is gonna be over $200 a year, there's an annual subscription, wouldn't you get the cost. And then as the days went on, I wanna say then it started being revealed that it's going to be free for cable subscribers and certain streaming bundles. Like I'm actually, as you were talking Dr. Trey, according to Google, which I believe is a reputable search engine.

7:13 It is saying that me being a direct TV streaming subscriber, I will get this service for free. So if that's the case, thank god, one, and two, this is interesting because there's a deal that's in place right now with WWE's partner in the TKO umbrella that I'll get to momentarily here, where I won't, it's gonna actually save me money now to not have until July, in 2016 when Peacock is no longer on my credit card, where now I'm basically getting pay-per-views for free because I'm a direct TV subscriber.

7:56 So things are changing and it's completely different. What I will say is, because this is gonna start easing into some of the stuff that was announced with UFC this week. Before we get to that part, Dr. Trey, that's part of the story and how it affects companies like AEW specifically, and even TNA for all intents and purposes. I just got to say, you know, for coming towards the end of the Peacock era, Peacock is one of the worst streaming platforms to watch a live WWE pay-per-view ever. I usually do not watch or I miss the start of the PLE if I jump into a PLE. It won't take me to the beginning of the show, I have to rewind through it and then it is one of the worst, like, try to fast-forward through the apps that you'll ever experience.

8:43 Even when you're doing on-demand, but nonetheless, I miss the WWE network. I would be okay today to be paying $9.99 a month because the WWE network was such a transcending platform and really truly opened up to like ESPN's director to consumer product that we're seeing now and all these other ones. It was like one of the very first legit streaming platforms. I missed the original programming, I missed the original content, I missed going to the library and it was a very easy to use app. So I just want to throw that out there, I miss you WWE network. Yeah, I still hear from like, if you watch some of the Chris Van Blee interviews, they'll still bring up the VPNs and you can get a VPN and still get the English or the European version of WWE network that still has that platform available.

9:38 Like I've never been a fan of Peacock and a lot of it is like what you were talking about. There's a lot of times when you have kids and you have jobs and you have wives, you can't just shut everything down and jump in at, you know, 6 o'clock, central, 7 o'clock East Coast time on a PLE. With the old network, you could just start from the beginning and you were good to go whenever you want to jump in and now it's like, man, you either have to be there at the start or do like Jeff does which is try to rewind it or just go screw it. I'll just watch it tomorrow or after the show ends and watch it and that's when you get guys like me watching PLE's at 2 a.m.

10:18 But yeah, like it's, I've never really dabbled in a lot of the other streaming platforms live content stuff like I don't have, you know, a major baseball, I don't have the NFL network, I don't have those platforms, I've only had stuff for WWE. So yeah, we were spoiled at the WWE network and Peacock was horrible, there was always, still to this day, five years into it. They're still buffering issues at times with stuff, I'm like, you guys have been doing this job for a long time, how have you not figured this out? And maybe they just gave up, maybe they just went, yeah, they're not coming back. Yeah, so in a little bit, it was kind of that way with the network at the end a little bit, like we know we're leaving, we're not putting a lot of bells and whistles on this thing.

11:05 But I'm hoping with, you know, ESPN that's been producing live sporting content for quite a while, like, hey, we're gonna draw this into a much bigger platform, because, you know, I'll get alerts on ESPN 2, that like, hey, you could jump into watch, you know, Binghamton University play Holy Cross in LaCross, if you want to, I've just never done it, but I'm hoping that their platform is more conducive to what fans of WWE want. Their content to be set up like. Yeah, well, I wanted to get to the UFC part, but I just figured on the conversation, I should bring this part up because I had some inroads, obviously, the ESPN.

11:47 I worked at ESPN for a little bit of time for ESPN radio. I was with an affiliate radio station for ESPN, and I knew some of the guys and girls that worked there and had great relationships with them. One of those people that I knew is former WWE broadcaster Jonathan Coachman, and we knew Coach pretty well. I've lost touch with him. Nice guy at the time as I met with him. I'm friends with him on LinkedIn. I think I am too, honestly. Maybe he's everyone. I got the connection with you. Is there you or Bauer? He is a very arrogant and cocky guy, which I think he kind of like leans into that, but always very, very, very nice to me, really enjoyed Coach getting to know him and all that stuff.

12:35 And he helped push ESPN to start doing the WWE coverage in like the mid 2010s. To that point, ESPN really did not acknowledge, like, want to include anything related to WWE programming other than really the timely stuff of WrestleMania. I started really doing coverage and they have since pulled back from that. I knew the person who was actually overseen like WWE related content. And I felt like at one time, now that this is like all coming back to me that there may have been some discussions with the person who ran it because they knew my obsession with professional wrestling to see if I would be interested in getting involved down the line and it would not be like this talking head online or whatever, but maybe like writing news articles or whatever.

13:21 I think there may have been some discussions about that now that this is all coming back to me like Celine Dion once said. Nonetheless, it's like really strange to see here we are 15, 10, 15 years later. And ESPN will be the home now for WWE PLEs. And they're talking about the coverage they're going to get and there's going to be specials on ESPN. Truthfully, I never thought I would see the day where a WWE show would be airing on ESPN. And there's been these discussions in and out over the years of where ESPN has been talking to WWE and WWE has been talking to ESPN about doing a show. It just never felt like it was going to happen. ESPN has been a network for over 40 years and now it's happening. So it's going to be odd to see like Scott Phan Pelt doing a post or sports center after summer slam is done.

14:13 So it's cool, it's the right thing and it's a great, great deal for WWE. I mean, I'm no businessman, but obviously, but to pay 1.6 billion dollars for the WWE PLE rights, it's like 12, 10 to 12 shows a year, like that's insane. But here we are. And we'll see what this means for future things with WWE and ESPN, which has me excited. In regards to the Pay-Per-View model, Dr. Trey, UFC announced earlier this week that they have signed a deal in the billions range as well. Maybe they were the one that was 1.6 and WWE is like 1.3. They will be carried, they're all of their pay-per-views moving forward. All the UFC major events, even the small ones, they're not going to be on ESPN plus that you got to pay for. They're not going to be on pay-per-view places for you to purchase.

15:09 They're going to be free for Paramount Plus subscribers, which is the old CBS All Access platform. UFC now, all their fights, if you pay the monthly subscription, which is like, I don't know, 12, 14, 16 bucks a month, who knows, the annual fee, which I actually have a Paramount Plus account as well that I share with my immediate family. The UFC pay-per-views are going to be up there, and it's funny that this discussion really didn't happen after the WWE was deal was made, but I feel like now that the UFC deal has happened, and the WWE deal happened one week prior, or a couple days beforehand, the Pay-Per-View model is basically dead, Dr. Trey.

15:49 I mean, there is zero reason nowadays for most people, which we'll get to that most people in just a little bit, to go to Pay-Per-View, to purchase a WWE show, a UFC fight, even boxing fights. I'm not a big boxing fan, but I'm sure if anybody watches WWE, if I see, I can tell you the Canelo Crawford fight will be taking place of Temer-30, that Netflix. We had the Jake Paul Mike Tyson fight on Netflix. I want to say there was like a Gina Carano fight on Netflix recently. Pay-Per-View model is dead, Dr. Trey. Did you ever think, you and I are two guys that grew up on the Pay-Per-View model watching WWE, ECW, and W-A-TNA when it was on a weekly Wednesday Pay-Per-View show, TNA presently.

16:41 AEW, did you ever think we would see the day where the Pay-Per-View model, where we were paying $59.99, $49.99, way back of the day, $19.99, a show? What ever go away? I don't know if I would say that I thought I would, because there was talks, I mean, just a few years ago, Jeff, about putting the Super Bowl on Pay-Per-View. So, I don't know if I ever thought that the model would change this much because of the fact that people were still looking into ways of quantifying and making the most amount of revenue off these events. And I think a lot of people have learned, in a lot of ways, this is a crazy thought from gaming apps. Like those little apps you get on your phone, the little games you play, Pokemon Go, or whatever, the micro transactions makes more revenue than the large transactions.

17:34 Because people will look and go, "Yeah, I can spend $10 a month for this, or $15 a month, do I want to pay $60 because the four months worth of that cost." So, it's made a lot of sense to like, "Hey, if we can monopolize this in a sense of these smaller transactions will actually generate more revenue." So, it makes sense when you look at it on a monetary scale of, "Hey, we'll probably attract more casual viewers with a smaller number than we will make off the die-hard spending $50, $60 a month."

18:14 So, it makes a lot of sense, and it is kind of transcendent in changing the way we view pay-per-view models because I think you're absolutely right. I think that pay-per-view model is going away outside of like the few holdouts and those holdouts is basically because they haven't found to be up to this day. I'm so amazed that AEW has not shifted their pay-per-views completely over to Macs, HBOMACs, I don't know what they call it now. They changed the name of that app every three months. It's funny that you brought that up because that was going to be the segue here, the AEW stuff, because sorry to cut you off there, Dr. Trey, but like AEW's distribution strategy and positioning needs to change.

18:56 I am completely turned off in willing to pay $59.99 a month or $49.59 to watch for Ben and Doer on Amazon Prime. That just is not cost-effective. And if AEW is doing 10 to 12 shows a year, you're looking at $250, $300 a year on AEW pay-per-views and the only thing that you get from that is the pay-per-view. You don't get a content library, you don't get anything, and it sucks for AEW because they probably need that pay-per-view revenue to help them continue to grow and be profitable so that they could get to a platform someday like an HBOMACs where they are airing the PLE, the pay-per-view on HBO Macs for all the subscribers.

19:53 I know there were discussions initially when they came to HBO Macs that the initial thought was you'd sign up for HBO Macs and then you could pay a certain price to purchase the pay-per-view. And even then, I'm like, that does an interest me. The way these models are now, like if I'm a UFC fan, I could pay $139 a month to watch a year to watch all the UFC pay-per-views, sign me up. I have WWE pay-per-views tied to my cable subscription or I'm paying $229, $39, $49, a year. If I did the annual subscription and watch this, sign me up. Because you're getting more with it, you're getting ESPN shows, you're getting various different forms of content.

20:38 UFC, if you like CBS shows, MTV, Al the Paramount, Viacom shows, they're all right there. You know, AW just can't not stand alone, be like, yeah, pay $49, pay $59 and you're going to get forbidden door for four hours. Yeah, the math doesn't math because like you were saying earlier, like 50 bucks a month, well 50 bucks a month over just 10 months. Let's say you just watch 10 out of 12, that's $500, where I can pay $250 and get the same amount of coverage from WWE plus all the ESPN stuff. I do like the model they have on HBO Max, so I can go in and watch all the collisions, all the dynamites. If I miss a show, I can go back and watch it.

21:21 That part's fine, but I don't understand why if you're doing this model, why have you not added this content in for the PLEs, for forbidden door, things like that? If you're HBO Max, why wouldn't you be asking for that? Now, AEW could be playing stubborn and going, well, what would WWE do? They have a show on Netflix, they have PLEs on ESPN, they have a show on the CW, they have a show on USA, and they're able to monetize that from so many different streams. And it might be just, you know, TN RSMEA, AEW is playing hard, like playing hardball with HBO Max a little bit, but at the same time your viewership on pay reviews at 50 bucks a month is not going to be what it is if you can get on another platform and your consumers are only paying 10 or 15.

22:10 Because that might also attract more casual viewers to increase your fanbase, so I don't understand the business strategy yet, and it might be just them playing hardball and just trying to see if they can find another home for their pay reviews or their PLEs, but right now they're kind of falling behind off the new business model. And you know what's really odd about AEW too is that they have the infrastructure presently to have their own streaming platform where they have the ROH product, the watch ROH stuff is available. It's there, like AEW has all this content now, five plus years of pay reviews, five plus years have done on my shows, four years plus of ramp paid shows, two years, three years of collision shows, they have the secret shows that they filmed during like 2020, 2021.

23:11 That it's never air that Tony Khan is like sad on and said that this will be part of like a streaming platform at some point, and then it you air your PLEs you air your pay reviews it's they have that infrastructure, I don't think they're going to move AEW stuff there obviously because HBO max, but something's going to give here because AEW is getting lost behind I'm a fan that enjoys AEW stuff, but if I want to see the storylines play out on pay per view, I don't want to pay 49 or 59 bucks because I'm comparing it to what I'm getting right now from WWE which has always been the case the last couple years, but even more so when AEW took a dip I'm like, there's really no reason for me to even watch these pay per views now or even you know put the money out to watch these shows based on the poor product.

23:58 So they got to find something they got to see if they get an on HBO max, I don't think it should be an additional cost just get people to HBO max obviously that is out of their fingers to make that happen, but AEW needs a pivot and I think they need a pivot really really soon dr. Try. Yeah, because I think you and I are very similar in this where like if we're interested in AEW paper be we're not showing up the money for it, there are other platforms where we can not ethically watch it, I'm trying to figure out the point. You know, there's other avenues to watch you without having to pay for it, but if I could get it on one of my streaming services and I'm not paying extra for it like I am with WWE, I probably sink my teeth more into it.

24:44 But just when you look at like AEW in a lot of ways they've changed the business model for WWE when it comes to how you present your product, how you shoot your product, giving the guys more downtime things like that, so very positive things. And it just feels like their stubborn not to change when WWE jumps ahead of them in something else and it may be they've tried to change but they just don't have the offers available, but it also does seem like at times they're just a little too stubborn to change until it's kind of forced upon them. So in this round the pendulum of discussed I will call it is towards AW where it's like come on get with the program here or you're going to lose some people.

25:28 I will say if I if I had to pay 30 bucks a month because I cut my cords I will be a little pissed off at WWE. Oh yeah, 100 bucks. Yeah, I mean 100% yeah, like you have direct TV. I like everything we do is stream is Netflix. Like I'm excited about the Paramount Plus stuff because I'm like cool I can actually get back into UFC. I haven't watched UFC in probably 10 years. Yeah, but if it's on my if it's on my Paramount Plus and it's a Saturday night and I'm bored, hey I'll jump in and watch a fight and see if I can't find somebody I gravitate towards. Like that's a great but if I go look I've already got who Disney Plus and I have access to ESPN 2 but now you're telling me in addition to my subscription to this I got paid 30 bucks a month more.

26:16 Then I'll be irritated but right now it's it's that's where that whole question of how this stuff actually works is where I'm a little bit leery on but yeah AEW is behind the curve on moving their PLEs but if I got paid 30 bucks a month more for ESPN. And just to be on and even then like I saw somebody say like yeah you have to be linked to some kind of streaming service so I'm like I don't know how to do this stuff and I'm old and I don't like to me. Yeah, it well it's like still very very murky even even now or it's like essentially we won't have any idea until August 23rd when this ESPN direct to consumer product launches where who in how and when will have access.

27:00 I guess the only benefit for us russing fans after trade is we've got like four months to find this all out because the first PLA from what I believe will be the Royal Rumble which is in late January early February now so even then we've got like five months to see if how this will all play out because I'm with you because I didn't have direct TV which I believe will be part of my subscription. I would be right there with you I'd be pissed I'm like man I got to pay like 20 249 bucks a year now for this shit when I already have ESPN as part of my television package. I don't this is the only reason why I'm doing this is for PLEs so there's not a lot of great information about it out there yet but nonetheless I still think AEW needs to change their pay-per-view model because even at 49.59 bucks a month I'm not willing to spend that for for Bittendor.

27:52 I think really the only show I was willing to spend that for was all in Texas because it's like the WrestleMania all the other ones I'm not doing it for dynasty I'm not doing it for full gear like we've got to change things up here so what I say before the pendulum of discuss it kind of goes in this direction towards AEW but it will swing back towards the WWE side because there's some things going on right now that I personally not a real big fan of Dr. Dre so what we're seeing right now is the WWE AEW behind the scenes rival. Re is certainly heating up and going back to all in Texas weekend WWE did the counter program in the Saturday nights main event and NXT's show there I can't remember what show that was back in July I want to say heatwave but it's the one that's coming up.

28:36 Anyway it was not a good day for WWE because AW out did them that day and everything was beneficial towards AEW really in 2025 for the most part the momentum and progression of AEW has been on upward trajectory which is very nice to see very solid show each week they seem a lot more organized and cohesive. So I'm not focusing on storylines and well put matches and it's going back to the days of when we really joined AEW where they had several years where they were discombobulated so props to AEW and they're seeing it in their viewership.

29:21 So last week was over 700,000 viewers which was like one of the first times since I think September 2024 it was one of the highest viewed shows which is amazing collision on Saturday night was over 400,000 viewers which they usually sit around the 300,000 sometimes even the high twos range on a Saturday night in the summertime which shows you there's some good momentum people are interested in the AEW product which is great to see. This is where some of the things now while all the good stuff that's going on with the product itself now there's some more stuff that's making me go you know just leave AEW alone.

30:01 According to reports this week WWE is set to announce a PLE that will be taking place on September the 20th in Indianapolis in the in a not originally announced on the calendar was on originally placed on the schedule. So why are they doing that? AEW is just announced a couple months ago AEW all out in Toronto which is one of their biggest shows of the year it comes off of all in for Ben and door will be taking place in Toronto that same day. The further checkmate that WWE is doing on this is that the reporting reports they will be announcing John Cena vs Brock Lesnar to headline that PLE to separate people obviously from wanting to go check out the WWE show versus what AEW will be doing on all out in Toronto.

30:47 And then I saw the new story on Thursday morning WWE according reports which is Dave Meltzer we know how Meltzer can be WWE is reportedly pushing for TNA to be seen as the number two promotion since they can control TNA. It's part of a full court press to box out Tony Khan. The TNA part is not a shock. Dr. Train I actually talk about pretty recently TNA is starting like surpass AEW in some places as the number two in the United States. And I would say AEW has reclaimed that spot but there's a lot of good buzz and momentum for TNA so this not a surprise the WWE in TNA were pushing for that spot.

31:28 None the less Dr. Train I am somebody who has completely criticized and chastised AEW over the last couple years because they were very poor and they were doing some dumb stuff they were way too focused on WWE. I'm now swinging over to protect AEW on this one because I feel the same exact way of what WWE is now doing AEW. WWE's creative has definitely improved in recent months as well but I don't like WWE's aggressive approach to annihilating some wrestling fans here. I think this is absolute bullshit I get that it's business but there is enough room for everybody and quite frankly when AEW is really good WWE is really good.

32:11 When AEW is not so good WWE is not so good so they push each other to be better AEW pushes WWE to be better and WWE pushes AEW to be better. That's what we want is wrestling fans those are the people that benefit of this all is us wrestling fans. Where do you stand on this? Talk about the direction how you feel from an AEW product perspective do you feel like there's good momentum? Do you think that they're growing well and then what is your thoughts on WWE trying to put a full court press on AEW's product? I mean I think the product has been better like we talked about it a few weeks ago from all in like I thought all in was the best show of that weekend.

32:52 I think they're like you said they're on an upward momentum run right now the shows are much better this much more cohesion there's less pot shots being taken by AEW towards WWE. And I'm excited for I mean to do a big show in Toronto for all out that's you know in a lot of ways it's another one of WWE's cornerstone areas. You remember a few years ago there was a whole talk that like W trying to box AEW from going into Masses Square Garden you know like there are certain home turf WWE doesn't like being stepped on in this Toronto has always been one of them back when I was a kid growing up they did a lot of big like a lot of Titan taping Tuesday night Titan tapings were done in Toronto which was one of my favorite venues to watch and then all the big summer slams and everything else have come to the Roger Center.

33:45 That's enough that it's one of their backyard so I feel like this is a not just a shot at AEW but it's also shot at the city of Toronto like look you guys want to run big shows this is our area you're letting those guys come in fine we'll just counter program you and then stick it to you guys into ways so I'm not a huge fan of it because I agree like I mean I we've seen the NFL do this with college football we've seen them do this with the NBA. You know the NFL running games on Christmas day Christmas day was always an NBA thing like I hate when companies do this because I understand it from a business model sense but from a fan perspective like me I got to choose between watching Packers Chiefs or watching Nick Celtics like that's a tricky choice you know now same thing here like do I want to watch all out or do I want to watch Sina Lesnar.

34:40 The upside is is that most fans know hey I can watch the replay of this unnamed PLE for WWE of the next day is still watch AEW live if I so choose to but it is just it's it's bully mentality and I thought we were still be a star not the bully mentality. Yes yes those days how can we forget um yeah I mean going back to our initial start here is you and I are both subscribers to some sort of way of watching WWE PLE's and if I want to watch a live show of all out puts on a car that you're like oh man this is this is really really intriguing and interesting I may be more inclined to watch all out live and watch the WPLE on Sunday morning.

35:29 Um rather than watch it Saturday night or I may watch it Sunday night when the NFL football slides over so yeah I'm not a fan of the aggressive approach. I understand the business we've talked about it before where WWE was really trying to push AEW into a really bad spot especially when they were really really and bleeding pretty badly but AEW is put their head down and they're just marching forward I don't hear Tony Khan talking about WWE. I don't want to hear Tony Khan talking about WWE. I don't want WWE to make these moves. I don't like when WWE makes these moves. You want to do on the show on the 20th AEW more power to you salute WWE do your show on the 27th of the 13th the week before the week after.

36:13 Like we don't need this it's it's all professional wrestling it's all good stop with the counter programming bullshit so because it's putting them in a bad spot I think it's making people more sympathetic to AEW which is something I think the last two to three years. I don't think you would have saw for the most part I think WWE was a little bit more like what AEW is doing just head down doing their own thing you didn't hear them comment about AEW in the news and you still don't but their actions are speaking louder than words WWE's that is and it's just a really bad look especially when AEW is not saying anything and they're just trying to put on a good show each and every week. One person who has not or will probably not be on AEW all out Dr. Dre or two people who won't be at AEW all out is one carrying cross and scarlet because according reports their contract expired over the weekend I believe on Sunday they are reportedly free agents and carrying cross to an interview with aerial halani said he's heard from every major wrestling company with the exception of AEW because AEW probably thinks it's a work.

37:16 And he came out and said it is absolutely not a work he is no longer employed his wife scarlet no longer employed with WWE they are free to sign anywhere they want and show up on any television programming whenever they want at this point. There's a little bit of there's multi layer approach here Dr. Dre because one you and I are both of the fans of what carrying cross has done over the last like nine to 12 months his character has really really been good. The second part here is this is like nowhere near the outcry the outrage the fan support that our truth got several months ago when it was reportedly saying that he was going to be let go release his contract was going to expire from WWE which is a shame.

38:04 This past Monday on raw I thought we were going to get a bunch of we want cross chance unless don't we dub them out during the live broadcast did not hear it I know the reports out there that they confiscated some of the cross signs but I don't think it was enough because people were still chanting we want truth when this all happened. There is obviously the layer of the storyline that will get to but your thoughts Dr. Dre carrying cross scarlet free agents are you disappointed shocked surprise by the lack of reaction from the Monday night raw raw crowd in Quebec City this past Monday.

38:44 I mean it's quite back I mean Canada can't I'm saying like Canada is kind of like bizarre a world in a lot of ways like sometimes they to hear for people were like what what you like why you guys so hyped on shockers show this week like it just it doesn't make sense sometimes it'll be a more of a test when they get back to the states this week and to see kind of what happens. But from a perspective of being a recipe for them I'm absolutely disappointed I thought cross was one of those entertaining people we were seeing on TV and for them to if his story is a shoot then for them to wait until the last minute and then produce an offer and then not offers wife like I'm completely dumbfounded is a point like we love seeing organic you know movements in wrestling and seeing the cross movement where.

39:37 Fans are buying the merch they're getting into his promos and he's one of most social media viewed and performers on their programming I don't know why they wouldn't do this it feels a little bit like you know the old sack writer stuff where somebody got over on their own and the company's mad about it like you only get over please say you get over so I've had to so I'm still I don't know I'm still 50 50 on works you until he takes a booking. For a promotion that is not w w affiliated like if he goes and works for Josh Barnett's blood sport what we've seen I mean they've already got the like I think Eric from the Viking Raiders is booked on a show coming up like if he goes and does a show for like wrestling revolver or GCW okay I'll buy in that this whole thing to shoot but otherwise why would you not be taking bookings right now when you're the hottest you ever been.

40:35 Because so far I haven't seen anything announced by him being booked anywhere since last weekend well he did say that he hopes that he in w we can work things out and that he he and scarlet's goal is to return to the company. Yes which is a really weird negotiation tactic because I think he said in his interview as well on the reports were circulating about this that w we made an offer on Thursday he wanted some time to go and take a look at it and they only give him 24 hours and then they resend to the offer I think is in a recent interview. So I mean to go out there and say yeah I want to go back to w we want to go back to w we I think takes a lot of negotiating power out of it the entire thing and also takes out of any future bookings for MLW TNA even AW if he's outright saying yeah I want to go back to w we from they worked shoot perspective there's a lot to unpack here once again I saw Dave Meltzer report on this.

41:37 And there's a lot of speculation that this is a work and and I went off about it last weekend I'm going to go off on about again but fucking Meltzer talked about distrust if if carrying cross and scarlet they are working us and this is a storyline and this was all fake. Meltzer said like how much distrust this is towards the fans and the other employees of the company. Have we fucking forgot where professional wrestling came from I mean Jim Duggan hacksaw Jim Duggan and I believe the iron chic got arrested in the 80s I think they like got high and like broke windows in a restaurant if I'm over the story correctly.

42:22 And okay no big deal they got arrested well it was because one was a super baby face the other was a super heel and they were feuding with one another and nearly in the words of people back then and even the old school folks today quote destroyed the business that is what professional wrestling is built on folks one of my favorite stories of all time and it hasn't been able to be replicated since because I don't think it could be pulled. And I don't think it could be pulled off today is the Brian Pillman loose cannon storyline he was a loose cannon WCW he got the company to release him from his contract he showed up in ECW shortly thereafter shows up in WWE amazing mastermind ahead of his time stuff for Brian Pillman fast forward 10 15 years later C.M. punk 2011 is he walking out or is he staying is he taking the WWE championship with him it blurred the lines of reality he had not signed a contract all that stuff and it made you really wonder and I loved it I ate it up it was great.

43:30 What's the problem with doing that again we're in a different world right now and I truly think doctor tray that WWE right now is booking their stuff specifically for the next round of unreal episodes that I think will take place in early 2026 and you've heard a little bit of of skull about about this that the unreal cameras were behind the scenes at Somerslan this past couple weeks ago and they were specifically filming Seth Rollins. I think the Seth Rollins storyline happened because of unreal which is great this is awesome outside the box creative if it turns out that scarlet and carrying cross we're working us this entire time if he pops up in an MLW which you probably won't because WWE and MLW don't get along with one other if he pops up in TNA pops up at GCW and I'm not sign I'm not sign I'm not sign and all the reports it's just a very clotinist or close knit circle.

44:28 Knit Circle that they're actually still with the company somewhere to the Seth Rollins injury and it turns out that it gives us great television and an ascense carrying cross and scarlet to the next atmosphere and professional wrestling who gives a shit I don't understand Meltzer or anybody else on the internet bitching about distrust in an entertainment form where we're supposed to completely forget reality this is like me going to a magic show and being like this is bullshit I can't you didn't really cut yourself you you didn't cut yourself in the middle you lied to me you you fucking lie to me like like I didn't know I was going to a magic show we go to wrestling shows because we know that is it is removing all reality from it we know that the world that they live in and operate in isn't real it's it it it it Shamus and Rusev our pals breaking news they are actually buddies okay they're friends Shamus was the best man at Rusev's wedding yes I don't think there was a legit falling out the new day still talk to big e-fokes like just enjoy what you see in I saw the distrust thing and it made me blow a fucking gas get dr I'm like even for Meltzer to say that because is reporting is getting screwed up who gives a shit like that's the point of it it's okay to be worked I sorry the distrust thing like hearing it again completely blew my mind

46:07 and we don't know if this is a worker or shoot I'm I'm thinking that this is all legit that he is legitimately scarlet and carrying across our legit no longer with the company and if they come back in two weeks time for weeks time it's because they wanted to go back and deputy was able to work out a deal and then they're capitalizing on this entire thing to make a destroy line but like distrust to the fans and the employees in the back that's the point of wrestling folks end of rent I feel like I should be on ESPN I'm right now going this is like two out of three weeks of red ass Jeff I love it I love usually I'm the one getting fired I love when you're in my head now I'm picturing you at a magic show yelling out you didn't really cut her in half she's still I'm you didn't murder her what the hell is wrong with you I want my money back yeah how dare you lie to me this is like the people that go online and read spoilers about the movie and then go out and review the movie and say nothing surprised me well because you read about what was going to happen what you saw like you saw the bells whistles to me like yeah like if it's if it's if it's a work great good on them you got over on the population that tries to know everything like that's exactly what it a lot of it has spun out from the art truth stuff they saw what happened there they went hey let's see if we can make a good storyline out of this

47:38 bring him back into the fold and the crowd lead up it worked hey let's do it with Seth hey we might be with with Karen and Scarlett if it plays out right because in my head if I'm carrying cross look at my disappointed they haven't made me a good enough offer absolutely but if a w comes in and goes hey we will pay you one million dollars to come to our show and we'll just give you a live microphone and you can do whatever you want why would you not jump on that yeah you know like it like why would you not be striking while you're the hottest you have ever been you don't have the sun a long term commitment to any company out there you can just do it on you know one off appearances and make a ton of money and we're not seeing that being done that's why I still believe this is still about 50/50 that being said for people who haven't go oh well that's just creating distrust first of all the entire business has been built on distrust you mentioned I was a kid when the dug in Irish chic thing happened and both guys got suspended because they broke that wall like I remember as a kid growing up in Oklahoma and you would hear stories about how the freebirds and Ted D. B. O. C.

48:51 were really good friends even though on screen they're trying to murder each other like legitimately trying to blind junkyard dog those guys were all friends you know but you could not cross that line like the entire business is been built on smoking mirrors it is a life back it's a magic show with stunt men that's what we love and for people to go like oh well since you're not telling me the truth of how all your tricks work now I don't trust you never trust them they are literally called Cardi because of carnival workers who literally are trying to screw you out of your money by playing games you cannot win that's what the entire business was built upon and for people of now like this is part of that society we live in where it's like it's not fair or it's not for me or I'm being excluded or you're not telling me all the inner workings of stuff that's not what this is about if you want that you have to use a paramount plus and guess what Dana White's carny white creates storylines Dana White creates intrigue not all the fighters hate each other both of those guys are friends but if you want the more more truthful stuff 1299 paramount plus you go out you have to see if you want to be entertained and surprised that's why you come to pro wrestling so for them to sit for people like Meltzer or any of Sean Ross Sapp or any of those guys is to play the distressed card or all that stuff is just complete and utter bullshit and then makes me go they don't know wrestling which makes me trust them less the best worst thing that happened in the last my entire time as a wrestling fan was it is the dirt sheets

50:31 because there is a lot of good information out there I read them every day I'm not going to sit here and say I don't but there's been plenty of times where I was like man I wonder if I just stopped and unplugged from those websites and I just started watching wrestling as as fun again because I missed those days where it was like I didn't know what was going on and I haven't done it obviously but I do like when we get surprises and whether how you feel about him returning or not returning the Brock Lesnar thing was like a really like eye opening as I watch it live surprise like holy shit they're doing this the Rollins storyline was like half surprise because we didn't really know if he was going to do it or not see a punks return w e amazing surprise like we live for those moments and it's like the best worst thing because you get some really good intel and discussions and you can kind of see what is going on behind the scenes and in the world of a professional wrestling and in the same time it does take some spoilers away and takes the wind out of the sales out of the viewing side of things so yeah I just thought the whole distrust thing I was like this is so lame like why are they doing this this is this is professional wrestling folks so we'll see what the carrying cross and scarlet contract with w e or any other company goes moving forward it's a very very intriguing situation we'll see if it's a work or shoot I'm leaning towards shoot right now and then lastly dr. Tray a storyline that I wish never happened is the rock and Travis Scott getting involved with john seen a hill turn and some you know and also the stuff with Cody roads we talked about the john scene a baby face turn a couple weeks ago last week actually on the field

52:15 it's a long time ago and the big reason why they pivoted is because the fall and I will Travis Scott that had been reported and the rock probably won't be on television don't we television anytime soon Paul Heyman had interview with area Hollani shortly thereafter and discussed that said that the plan storyline involving the rock and Travis Scott ultimately fell apart so it killed any momentum for what was going on with john seen in Cody roads maybe it was going to be the rock and Travis Scott taking on john seen in Cody roads at some point I think it would eventually have led to a baby face return for john seen a Heyman who is quasi part of the creative team acknowledges that that angle was completely scrapped is this a learning lesson for w e dr. Tray probably not to go with Dwayne and friends because I'm the biggest fan of the rock you'll see and I know you've said on the show multiple times you're a big fan of the rock not a big fan of dwayne Johnson I like both people but the rock getting involved with storyline stuff does screw things up every single time it feels like he gets involved in the 2040 nearly got completely screwed up until WWE made an amazing play to save it and gave us a great two night event this now had a extremely memorable moment now it's definitely not going to be comparable to the holocogan turn at bash the beach in 1996 because everything that happened afterwards with that story at bash the beach 96

53:46 and it will remember with the scene of stuff from the elimination chair on words is it was cool but the way it ended was really failed and and stupid ultimately should do we try to get out of the rock and said celebrity business when it comes to major storylines I don't think they'll be able to when it comes to the rock but is this a learning lesson for the company moving forward I think it was like look we kind of have to act we asked to dwayne Johnson because he has on the board directors and he does have a large influence on the population but when it comes to bringing in like hip-hop guys, rap stars I mean I'm not counting jelly rollin that because he's to be a different kind of person like it just every time they've done it it's kind of fall on its face and then you know bringing in guys who don't know wrestling to get involved in wrestling it's never good dwayne Johnson as much as I love the rock I don't know if any really successful outside ventures outside the movie industry that he's done like the ufl has not been a great success you know the the terror like all of his like brands out there that he gets involved with haven't been great his time in dc you know the dc you as black Adam fell on his face the point where like James gun showed everything relating to waiting jobs and afterwards

55:20 it is what he's like yeah he's got a big influence people love him but a lot of his outside ventures don't really work out well so I'm hoping that we can learn from this and go hey we really only want people to come into this who actually love this business and are going to put the time and effort in like a logon paul like a bad bunny like a jelly roll that are really here for the benefit of us and not the benefit of themselves yeah that's that's the way we should be looking at these things right is is putting the product ahead of what the rock thinks hopefully this is learning less than dr trade because I think that it did really spoil a lot of things and now this is he's kind of like two for two I think w created really salvage the situation if you go back to that documentary the rock says he was involved in as well I'm sure he was but yeah I mean this is a situation where they're like we're going to do this and they abandon w and leave them trying to scratch and claw out of a bad situation that they may not have wanted to do I will say the the john seen our truth thing from smack that was pretty good so I'm not a big fan of baby face turned it feels like oh it almost feels like a fever dream like did that really happen did we really get like five months of john seen it as a heal or was that just high on tear you know tearment yana or whatever that rocks fuck

56:50 I think yeah I don't I don't know tequila yeah yeah so like that but it just it feels weird now that we're like okay now we got john see john seen it back as a baby face but you know it's kind of like paying no attention to all the things I said the last five months my bad I really do love you guys but I did love the little bit with art truth and you were john see is going man art truth you said you were going to ruin the wrestling that was crazy that part was a good little play on it so it got to give you back in a good mood about the whole baby face turn you think there's any way the rock is john seen this final opponent is it possible we didn't think we were getting rock lesser yeah so I guess I guess anything is possible but then just those the rock put over john seen it or it is john see it I think I guess I don't know I still want one more radio or match that would be cool but they could say that this was like third in a lifetime once in a lifetime twice in a lifetime now it's third in a lifetime because that's what they build that match back at wrist one once once twice three times a scene yes yes and I love you I love you all right with that said let's close up shop on this week's edition of SRT you could support the show over at patreon.com/srtupodgasket the show add free along with so many more exclusives that are out right now SRT you classics we're going to have any

58:24 and every type of show that's available to you right now we have our viewers choice show we're asking people to pick topics so dr.tranel will be recording that soon we'll have our interview my interview with CM Punk from almost 10 plus years ago now we'll be up there to download later this month and of course you get the show add free and immediately when it comes to download over at patreon.com/srtupodgask you could download the show each and every week at realguymedia.com, russchatnet.on.x or the still real show feed on Apple Spotify or wherever you download this podcast don't forget to rate review subscribe that helps us out greatly on all those podcast platforms you could fall into the video on X or myself at SRT you Jeff and for dr.tray Franklin a deed out to tray and of course don't forget the fall show on X at SRT you podcast with that being said what is going on in the wonderful world of dr.tray Franklin this week well like Jeff said you can follow me on the X at the dr.tray you can find me on instagram and facebook dr.tray Franklin when you're on facebook be sure check out rocketsy championship wrestling they have a really big show coming up this Saturday unfortunately i'll be out of town but those guys have been killing it for weeks the Sean shocker Evans tournament that went on on the second was amazing has some great times the most important to get out there and check out your local independent wrestling scene you too can find a guy who dresses like trap the sky and does nothing about wrestling and will punch your biggest star in the face for free

59:54 there you go support all the great things that support SRT you and thank you for downloading and being part of us each and every week until next week for dr.tray Franklin i am Jeff Pek this has been the still real us show