We recap and review WWE SummerSlam 2025, breaking down all the biggest matches, moments, an

0:00 It's still real to me, damn it! [music] What up, you! [music] Welcome, everybody! Welcome to this week's "This and This and This" or "Real Love" show, episode number 808 for August 7, 2025. This is your WWE Summer's Lamb, recap and review edition of SRTU. I am one after the show. I am Jeff Pack, joined every single week when I was a little in Auxitrade Franklin. Dr. Trey, wrestling looks a lot different than it did a week ago, my friend.

0:45 Yeah, yeah, I can't argue that point a bit, but that's the great thing about wrestling is just when it's ever evolving, ever changing and as a rowdy, rowdy, piper once said, just when you think you have all the answers, I'll go and change all the questions. Yeah, that is certainly the case with this past weekend. So welcome one, we will recap and review everything from Summer's Lamb weekend, everything that's sent out of it, a lot of major news stories going on. But first, friendly reminder to subscribe, sign up, be part of the community over at patreon.com/srtupodcast. If you are a subscriber to our Patreon page, you are actually getting this podcast two days early.

1:27 That's right, two days early. Dr. Trey and I downloaded or recorded a show on Tuesday of this week, make it available on Thursday or our normal day of the week. And it's all here, right at your fingertips, along with several other things. SRTU Classic episodes 11 through 20 will be up on the page throughout the month. An interview I did when I was with the Bauer show in Hartford, Connecticut with one C M punk will be made available. And my debut on the Bauer show back my podcast debut back in March of 2009 and a friendly person that maybe my co-host on this podcast actually dials into the show and then leads to another episode, which is kind of like a missing episode at this point.

2:13 I got to try to find it quite honestly. But yeah, all that and more over at the Patreon page patreon.com/srtupodcast. So support the podcast. And of course, this podcast ad free, no ads, nothing in there, no interruptions. It is straight through what you hear from Dr. Trey and I as we record the show and we make it available. As soon as we're done recording patreon.com/srtupodcast with that said, let's get into night one, Dr. Trey, because there's a lot of ground to cover here. Let's start with the first match here is Roman Reigns and J. Uso to be Braun Breaker and Bronson Reed. You and I had Roman Reigns and J. Uso in this one. It was a great way to kick off SummerSlam Night One with a fun tag team match.

2:54 The big story here was Reigns sacrificing himself with a good of J. Uso allowing J to take out Bronson for the win after a rough stretch since losing the World title. J really needed this moment. The big question now, where does Roman go from here? We've got a decent idea being that there is something going on this past Monday night, but nonetheless, your thoughts on this match. Yeah, really fun, hard hitting match. I mean, they kind of went balls to the wall in this one. So I really enjoyed it. I think it elevated Bronson and Braun. By the way, I know you and I talked about it calling them the Bronnies. How about the Legion of Braun?

3:35 There's another name I came up with this week. But yeah, like just really fun, hard hitting match. And a really awesome way to kick off SummerSlam. Yeah, it was a great way to kick off the show and kind of gave a little bit of a foreshadowing what would take place later in the night next match here. Shard Flare and Alexa Bliss defeating the judgment day to win the WWE women's tag team championship both Dr. Trey and I had Flare and Bliss in this one. It's great to see the women's tag team division getting some well deserved attention, especially with two entertaining and intriguing teams handing into this match. I really enjoyed the tease of Bliss and Flare turning on each other after acts. Alexa accidentally hits Charlotte. It had its intention and unpredictability. This parent has the feel of one of those organic teams like team Hellnow that fans can really rally behind and that could help rebuttalize both of their careers.

4:20 Dr. Trey, your thoughts here is Flare and Bliss are our new tag team champs. Yeah, I don't know about you, but like when the match start I'm looking at it going. They're almost mirror images of each other. Like you have the big person, Raquel, the little person, Roxanne. Charlotte is pretty tall in athletic and then you got Alexa Bliss. I'm like, man, this is kind of like, you know, it's almost like evil version versus good version. But I love the match for what it was. I don't know if it was a throwaway line, but I think it was Wade Bader said. Charlotte said that this is the most fun she's had in her career and it is translating. Like she looks like she's having fun. I think that's what's making the fans kind of get behind her.

5:02 Because her character even in the entrance and everything else still makes you want to dislike her. But that fun is translating and that's what people get behind and you're right. It's those odd ball pairings that we kind of love. And it is a good way to kind of put a spotlight on the women's tag division. We have Charlotte and Alexa kind of leading the charge right now. Yeah, I love organic pairings like this like stuff that comes out of nowhere. I mainly think of obviously as I mentioned for team. I'll know so it's been a lot of fun for Flare and Bliss. And the judgment day Roxanne and Raquel have been really good lately. So fun one here is we have new tag team champions. Next match is Sammy's a defeating carrying cross. You and I both had carrying cross in this one.

5:43 What was the point of running this rematch at SummerSlam? If carrying cross was just going to take another loss to Sammy's aim. The only explanation that makes sense is something behind the scenes. Maybe cross and Scarlett's 11 and resign with the company. According reports from Fightful Select as of Tuesday. Cross and Scarlett's contracts are set to expire this weekend. They'd worn on raw on Monday night. It would appear to me that potentially their time with the way we may be up, Dr. Dre. Your thoughts here are Sammy's aim defeats carrying cross. Yeah, I mean, it was a good match, but yeah, it wasn't the result we were looking for. I mean, carrying cross has kind of organically got himself over. He's getting, you know, great response from the audience. But yeah, like what's the point in having cross lose to PLE matches the same as AIN.

6:28 If we're not getting a payoff, it is weird that they haven't signed the deals yet. I guess, you know, whatever it is, but I know cross that came out said like he's not one of those guys that runs away from challenges like he has loved this time and W to me despite the struggles. It's just weird they haven't ironed this out because once again, like merchandise numbers are king in a lot of this stuff. And crosses merchandise is top five for a guy who hasn't been pushed is incredible. So yeah, just a weird result, but if it's from behind the scene stuff, it makes sense. But it's just weird that you would put this match on Summerslam knowing you don't have the guy signed because Sammy winning doesn't do a lot for Sammy because he's kind of expected to win and it just kind of hurts cross in the long run.

7:19 Next match here is Tiffany Stratton defeating Jade Cargill to retain the WWE Women's Championship. Dr. Strandon both had Jade Cargill in this one. This is a surprisingly strong match. I thought both Tiffany and Jade delivered one of the best performances to date. It may have been a bit short, but it's all the solid story, feature some impressive spots and was executed cleanly. The chemistry between them really stood out and I'd love to see these two go out again. The result was quite surprising because it has felt like Jade has been the chosen one. There were some reports following this match that maybe WWE has lost a little bit of confidence in Jade Cargill, which I find a bit strange because I actually think she's getting better in the ring. The character is getting better and I think the long term for her as a heal could be very, very good.

8:00 Dr. Tray, your thoughts here as Tiffany retains over Jade? Yeah, I was surprised at the result because like you said, we both picked Jade to win. I thought that was the way they were positioning her. It also kind of creates a void in the women's division on SmackDown. Like is Bianca the next person up to go for Tiffany if it does? What is that? That's our planning to seize for Jade and Bianca down the line. I read those reports and I'm like, well, if that's the case, why do you have a win, Quinn or the ring? Like it makes no sense. Like why put her in a position to fail if you've lost confidence in her? Just push her down a little bit organically and then let her rebuild herself. But I thought the match was fine.

8:40 This was like one of Jade's best performances since she's been in WWE and Tiffany's not known for carrying people through a match. So the fact that these two went out and had a really good solid match, I give credit to both girls because they aren't really known for that yet. So I thought it was a great job for both ladies, but yeah, surprising results. Drew McIntyre and Logan Paul defeat Randy Orton and Jelly Roll, Dr. Trane and Randy Orton. Jelly Roll in this one. We've definitely seen better celebrity in-ring performances recently and unfortunately that's the standard Jelly Roll is being compared to. The fraud splashed through the announcer's table was a gnarly bump for him to take. But what I don't get is the Foley-esque stretcher spot from like Palinist L98.

9:21 He gets carried out only to return and they get pin moments later. Maybe it's meant to set up a future rematch, but without a meaningful payoff, it just feels like an unnecessary beat. Dr. Trane, your thoughts here as McIntyre, Logan Paul get the victory. Is it weird that I didn't hate Jelly Rolls for performance because we talked about it on last week's show? My expectations were super low. And he took some bumps that I didn't think he would take. I thought he did okay. The stretcher spot is weird because it's like, all right, Jelly Roll is not McFully. And Jelly Roll coming back to the ring for the save doesn't make a ton of sense. I would have prepared to see them cart Randy out, let Jelly Roll show some heart taking a beating and then Randy make the save.

10:07 And then still let Jelly Roll get pin or whatever. But yeah, it's just, it's weird that people are hating on it because I don't know what their expectations were because Dude's not an athlete, just a big dude. It's kind of like, what's that guy's name? Oh, the guy that is all the impressions. No, he's got mad TV. Will Sasso. Will Sasso, like his match with Brett Hart. You know, I was like, I wasn't expecting a five star classic. I was expecting to see kind of a guy show a little bit of grit, a little bit of determination and just get through it. I thought Jelly Roll accomplished that, but it is a weird result. I think that's why we're getting Logan Paul and Jelly Roll at Royal Rumble or something.

10:49 I don't really know what the pay off is and what this does for anybody, especially because it doesn't help Drew and Logan because they beat a musician. It doesn't help Randy because he picked Jelly Roll and it doesn't help Jelly Roll because he took the pin. So I don't understand what the upside of all this was other than just getting views on Summerslam. Which I think is a big thing nowadays and that was kind of the end result of both shows that we'll talk about later on here. But yeah, props to Jelly Roll. He was a down-to-performance center. According to a lot of reports, he was there like the last several weeks, almost like a month plus, really training for this match. You could totally see that the undertaker showed him how to slap on a choke slam by the way he does it.

11:29 But they got to work on like his facials because he looks like dumbfounded and like a sad puppy dog way too much. And yeah, it looks that way. He looks that way in real life. Maybe it's not working. Yeah, you see my the award shows like your winner Jelly Roll, he still looks sad. Yeah, like oh, shocks. Yeah, he just has that like E or persona about him, I guess. He certainly does, but props for him, but comparing him to the other celebrities is quite difficult lately because they've done a really good job. And then our main event match here, so we thought CM Punk defeats Gunther to win the World Heavyweight Championship. We both had CM Punk in this one.

12:10 This is a pretty damn good match with some great storytelling. CM Punk spent most of it getting beaten down only to capitalize on Gunther celebrating steal the win. Gunther gets busted open. Gunther getting busted open works well to write him off for the report of no surgery that he needs. And also sets the stage for what came next. Let's just start with this match, Dr. Trey. This was a damn good match. CM Punk defeats Gunther. Was this his best match? He's been back. This one in the Drew Hell in the Cell match, right? Yeah, I would probably well, I like to see in the match with Cena. Yeah, that was good too. So yeah, I mean, Punk maybe has maybe not wrestled up to our expectations since he came back.

12:50 Because it's been about a year and a half now. But it's one of the things is the, I guess the old Toby Keith song. I'm not as good as I once was. But I'm as good once as I ever was. That's kind of how I feel about Punk. Like when it's the big stage and he knows all eyes are at him. He can pull a rabbit out of his head. But you know, for the most part, it hasn't been some, you know, not great matches, but this one is up there. Like this was a really damn good match. And maybe credit goes to Gunther for carrying Drew through this match, but yeah, the Gunther getting busted open the way the match was set up. I thought it was really well done. And and Punk now can add one more world championship to his resume.

13:32 And then the match that we didn't know what was going what was. I mean, it was not on the card as Seth Rollins defeats CM Punk to win the World of the World Championship. We obviously did not predict this one. I'm honestly pretty irked at the rumors and subtle hits. Spoil look could have been a jaw dropping surprise. Could you have imagined the reaction if no one saw this coming? That said, it was so fantastic finish to the show. And added, added even more fuel to the Seth Rollins versus CM Punk feud. An awesome way to close out night one of Summer Slam. Dr. Trey, there's been a lot of comparisons to hear the ruse of the century. They compared it to Willie Wonka looking like he was had crutches and threw them down from Seth Rollins.

14:15 Lots to discuss here, but your thoughts Seth Rollins defeats CM Punk to become World of the Way Champion. I mean, didn't we both predict this last week? Yes, yes we did. Yeah, so I mean, I don't understand if he was saying, oh, they ruined it. I'm like, no, this is kind of what Jeff and I said last week. So it's not like the internet scolded. I mean, if you're a diehard wrestling fan, you kind of saw this coming because they hadn't really talked about it. Usually the guy goes in for knee surgery. There's photos and videos of them having the surgery and all that stuff. We didn't see any of that stuff. But it plays into the story really well. I mean, Seth has kind of become the new edge like the ultimate opportunist. It fits into the character. It fits into the storyline.

15:01 It keeps the punk Rollins rivalry going, which is going on almost a year now, a year almost. So it's one of those like organic natural rivalries that people always wanted to in and watch. So I like what they did. I like that. I think I remember Rollins, like only three people knew this was happening and I'm like, no, there was more than that. But still it's just like, you know, but it also ties into the stuff with like, you know, we saw on Monday night with you know, Becky and Mickey and then, you know, the allegiance of Becky to her husband and both being heels and playing into that. So I thought it was really well done and kind of makes sense given where we're headed with the direction of the show right now. And then also with Gunther being off TV for a few months means Seth can have a decent little run fighting baby faces until Gunther comes back and we just, and we figure out if he's a baby face or a heel when he comes back.

15:55 So what I liked most from this entire thing was that WWE played homage to CM Punk's time in AEW by equal in the amount of time he held the AW world championship as to hold in the world every title in this match. So I think the AW title he held maybe like a day or two longer. Do I have that right? Yeah, because he went it and then lose the next day. Yeah, yeah, something went happen. And Drew's in Drew's title run, I think was 10 seconds longer than Punk's. Yes, probably I think so. There's somebody's definitely got a clock that they could compare it to. So nonetheless, that was a great way to close out night one.

16:39 And I have both one three and three on the night. And let's go over to night two here is Naomi defeats Rio Ripley and EO Sky to retain the women's world championship. Both Dr. Trey and I had Naomi in this one. I like to finish. It looked like Rio was finally about to defeat EO Sky only for Naomi to sneak in and steal the pin on Rhea. They really shouldn't have taken the title off of Naomi so soon. That said, the ongoing storyline of Rhea chasing the title and eventually overcoming EO Sky is genuinely compelling. I'm curious to see when they finally pulled the trigger on Rhea being EO EO as EO will also be taking on Naomi on this Monday's edition of Raw Over in Quebec City Quebec. Dr. Trey, your thoughts here on the women's world championship triple threat match.

17:22 I thought it was a really solid match. It kind of went the way I thought it would be where I kind of thought that Rhea would have the upper hand. I'm the pin. I thought it would be the old Rhea hits the big move and then Naomi dumps Rhea out of Penzio. So Naomi taking or getting the pin on Rhea once again it also gives Naomi extra credibility. Plus she got the big champion interest like she got live music and that just shows me that like hey they are really investing in this direction. Naomi is going for us. She may have a little longer title run than we all kind of think. Next match here is the Y-6 defeating Andrade and Ray Phoenix DIY, Fraxium, Motor City machine guns and the Street Profits in a 6-pack tables, ladders and chairs match to retain the WWE tag team.

18:07 Championship both Dr. Trey and had the Y-6 in this one. This was a really strong match and could go down as one of those TLC bouts we remember for years to come. The table symphony spot was incredible one after another after another and I loved the Easter egg tributes to classic TLC matches sprinkled throughout. It will be interesting to see how it stacks up over time compared to the post-wrestling of any TLC match featuring the Profits, Motor City machine guns and DIY. That said I wasn't a fan of the finish once all the Y-6 got involved. If WWE's creative goal is to turn them heel it's working but if that's not the intention then there's a real issue because fans clearly aren't enjoying how their winning matches right now.

18:48 Outside of that this match was amazing which I expected. Dr. Trey your thoughts on the 6-pack TLC match. A beautiful symphony of chaos. I was worried if you remember last week's show I was like this was probably the biggest TLC match we've ever seen and I've never seen a show. 12 people in the match and then I said if you count the Y-6 and can this like 16 people were going to get involved in this match. It's like a mini battle royale in a lot of ways just adding in the tables ladders and chairs so the fact that it came together so beautifully done I gotta give those people a ton of credit.

19:28 They probably had multiple producers on this match to sort out all the people getting involved but you're right like the finish with getting all the Y-6 involved is one of the reasons why I've never liked baby face stables because the whole purpose of stable is to have a managerie of people to help somebody win but that's a very heel thing to do. I don't think they know what to do with the Wyatt because obviously they're trying to pay tribute to Bray Wyatt and they're trying to keep this a baby face kind of thing to honor him in a sense but like when you got that many people in so much supernatural stuff it's really really hard to make them sympathetic baby faces when they always have the numbers advantage so it's it's a weird conundrum to put them in.

20:15 When you're trying to keep them baby face but keeping everybody involved makes them look like heels so I think the fans have a hard time figuring out what direction what what direction to go with this. Next match here is Becky Lynch defeating Lyra Valcuri and a no disqualification no count out last chance match to retain the WWE Women's Intercontinental Championship. With the loss Lyra Valcuri could no longer challenge for the titles long as Becky Lynch is champion. I had Becky Lynch start to trade Lyra Valcuri in this one. There were a lot of innovative spots in this match like Lyra being tied up with zip ties and chair wrapped around her until Bailey made the safe. While the match felt a bit long it stayed engaging throughout.

20:55 I had a feeling Bailey would get involved in cost Lyra the match especially after a promo on Raw last week. It's a shame that at least for now we won't be seeing any more Lynch at Lyra matches. They always delivered and really helped elevate Lyra to a whole new level. Dr. Trey your thoughts on this one is Becky retains. Yeah like I I get it is kind of the same thing we talked about with the women's tag match like you're putting a make you know a major star kind of on a secondary title to help elevate the title and elevate the people around them. This might be similar to you know John Cena US open type thing where it's elevating the rest of the division but with that stipulation what do you do with Lyra? Does she just kind of fall in a favor or do you have her push her up into that mix with Naomi E.O. Rhea and it had Lyra to the mix and then what where does Bailey go from here?

21:44 So it's interesting to see what they're doing with this division but you know it's it's a little bit questionable like you're you just built up Lyra for her to lose here. Where do you see her going now and that's that's the million dollar question from next matches solo sokoa defeating Jacob Fatou and a steel cage match retained in W United States championship I.J. Big Fatou, Dr. Trian solo sokoa this match felt cut short and ended in an anti-climatic way I wasn't a fan of finish at all rolling out of the ring by the door for solo odd. The whole point of a steel cage matches to prevent interference and that clearly didn't happen here is the MFTs were heavily involved in this match. It ended up being one of my least favorite matches of SummerSlam weekend which is disappointing because I usually really enjoy watching Jacob at solo each week.

22:30 Dr. Trian your thoughts of solo sokoa retains? Yes a cage matches are now on the same level as me when it comes to submissions like I don't know what we're doing with them. Like one one show it's you know and we saw a couple like a couple months ago with the sadist event where even Jesse Ventured didn't know what the rules in W.W. And it's like the steel cage is designed to keep people out but then if everybody's getting involved what's the point. I like it in the sense of hey maybe this means you know Jacob moves up or this rivalry goes along with the bar because solo is one of my guilty pleasure watches right now. But yeah the match itself I just I never really got into it because it doesn't feel like a steel cage match if everybody's involved.

23:17 I just need that finality of like let's keep everybody out and then maybe somebody throws something in or slips somebody something but if it's all just willy nilly anybody can get involved then it defeats the purpose of the steel cage. Next match here is dominant from stereo defeating AJ Styles to retain the WWE Intercontinental Championship. I had AJ Styles after a Dom Mysterio. I loved the tribute to Eddie Guerrero in this match from the classic chair spot to the nod to WrestleMania 20 with Dom losing in his boot to escape a hole that ultimately beating AJ Styles just like Eddie did against Kurt Angle and MSG. The ring year inspired by the Ray Eddie SummerSlam 2005 match was a great touch too. It was nice to see Dom back in the ring especially since his icy title ring has felt a bit lackluster due to the lack of defenses during his injury.

24:03 I'd love to see Dom and AJ run it back again. Doctor Tre your thoughts as Dom is still our Intercontinental Champion. And we talk about guilty pleasures and it still blows me away that four years ago I could not stand as he Dominic Mysterio anywhere near a wrestling ring. And now he's one of my favorite most entertaining people to watch. Now he's still not a great worker. He's a good worker not great. I also hate him doing the 619 because it looks lack of daisicle. It just doesn't look impactful at all but the storytelling in this match was fantastic. All the tributes, the nods, the whole nine yards. It keeps AJ looking strong coming out of it because Dom had to use every trick in the Guerrero book to get the win.

24:47 So I loved it on those levels so really, really solid storytelling in this match is which is something I love and grow wrestling. And then finally speaking of storytelling, Doctor Tre, we have Cody Rhodes defeating John Cena in a Street Fight to win the Undisputed WWE Championship. We both had Cody Rhodes in this one. An incredibly fun emotional rollercoaster of a true passing of the Torch match. I was initially skeptical about Cena turning babyface, especially since the SmackDown promo felt like it came out of nowhere or in that a bit. But it looks like that's here to stay after Brock Lesnar's shocking return and take him out at the end of SummerSlam. This was a really strong match that had me hooked from start to finish and I'm excited to see where things go from here.

25:28 Doctor Tre, plenty to discuss when in guards to John Cena's babyface turn and Brock Lesnar. But this match on its own was pretty amazing, your thoughts. John hasn't had a bad match as he's been back and maybe it's because he's hand picking his opponents. Maybe it is because of storytelling and the nostalgia of what it is but once again, another really, really good match. Really enjoyed it. The babyface turn out of nowhere like it's all kind of what we expected but it doesn't tie into the heel turn. Which has got me questioning stuff. We haven't seen the Rock's elimination chamber. We don't know where that story is going. Maybe if Rock comes out and says he sent Brock to punish John Cena for losing.

26:14 Okay, simple tie into it and then is Rock so gonna for Cody. I'm excited but I have a lot of questions about where we're going with those two guys. Arguably your biggest two characters heading into the fall and winter season and we really don't know where they're going with this yet. It's gonna be a really interesting Smackdown and follow up to this to see where they go but on a match scale, that was a damn good match. So I would forward to Dr. Shre would five in one you and I are now both tied at 44 and 15 on the year. We should be betting men at the end of this. I think Draft Kings does it. Let's look at match of the night and event rating. I will go first here.

26:57 Dr. Shreve for both night one and night two. So night one, I gave a 4.2. My match of night, CM Punk versus Gunther. Night two, I gave 4.2 as well. Match the night, John Cena, Cody Rhodes. I thought this was a very, very solid summer slam weekend. Your thoughts Dr. Shreve, night one, night two event ratings and night one, night two, match the night. So our night one almost identical 4.2 and also Gunther, Punk and the Rollins cash. So we're equal on that one. Night two, I gave a 4.0, the solo Jacob match. It didn't have me that invested Becky and Lyra were a little long. Everything else was fans asking and maybe TLC props if the TLC match was another that may drop it.

27:43 And if Cody and Cena didn't have such a great match, that would've made it lower. But I got a 4.0 but I also have Cena and Cody and I guess Brock as my match of the night. So there you go. Yeah, I guess Brock's appearance makes it's return. So there you go. Feel free to chime in at SRTU podcast on X or Facebook dot com slash the solo the show or for Patreon members, Patreon dot com slash SRTU podcast. We're going to look at some of the big stories here chronologically. Dr. Trial want to keep it in the summer slam weekend first. Because there's a lot of good stuff here that came out of night one night too. Let's look at the clothes of night one. So is Seth's injury storyline awesome or did it create mistrust? Let me read a report here. This came to us from wrestle ops on X VAPW insider.

28:31 So PW insider on the ending out to night one of summer slam 2025 that saw the Seth Rollins cash in running the bank to become the new world champion. They put quote at Saturday night's main event they treated Seth Rollins injury as an injury. He did go to Birmingham, Alabama. Well, Raw was there. If Rollins injury was a work all along very few people were in on it and the company also worked the talent and employees. Rollins would have also worked his students because he is a resident academy in Iowa. That is a slippery slope. If you start working the talent and in parentheses if that is what they did and parentheses it can definitely create mistrust.

29:11 What the fuck is wrong with these people? I'm sorry. I mean, I I read that and I'm like people are saying this is creating mistrust. Like I'm if this was 1970 this would be every other day of the week for professional wrestling. I loved it. I think it was great. As I mentioned before, Dr. Shrey my biggest turn off on the entire thing is that this was rumored for the last three weeks or so three or four weeks when under the injury happened. It there was this air of it's not legitimate that this is a work. But what would we really do it and if there was a creative team if there was a force that was going to pull it off it would be this version of WWE creative.

29:53 And they pulled it off and all I could think of was as he came out and I'm like holy crap like my eyes got big and then we saw the pushing of the the crutches. It's still a great moment but all I could think of was if there was zero percentage of any story out there being like this is a work this is we always tend to think that but this one had a little bit more fuel to the fire. And again on the mistrust issue like as a fan I don't feel mistrust like I think this is great they should be doing things like this work the audience give me that old school feel hell we do a podcast called the still real to us show. And then on the employee standpoint like they do that because they don't want to get it leaked out to the dirt sheets guys like duh no shit do you want to let everybody know this is a work so that they go run the mic Johnson a PW insider and then Mike Johnson puts it out to his elite subscribers because they pay or Sean Ross that puts it up on page his page around page no because eventually gets leaked out to everybody like it's not worth it.

30:54 I love dirt sheets I love reading the reports it helps feed fodder for the show I get it but there are so many times in my life I'm like I just wish I could go back where I didn't know what the hell was going on behind the scenes and this was semi one of those moments it was not 100% it's probably like 50% it was like 50 50 because if Rollins came out you know walked off into the sunset so long crutches would go oh man I thought they were teeth they obviously teased it he's legitimately hurt this sucks he's out the next eight to nine months. If he didn't come out at all we had that same feeling he came out he's back so there's like great job fun storyline and also great job I'm happy Seth is an injured and he's back but did this create mistrust I am completely against that doctor tray your thoughts here was it awesome or did it create mistrust.

31:41 I love when you get fired up out of the two of us typically I get fired up and pissed off more than you so when we get in the south we call it red ass we get red ass Jeff Peck I love it it's like it's like I was like when you were like what the fuck I was like I didn't know where you were going with it at first and then when you like blasted the report I'm like no I told you agree like we love when MJF stays in character right but that's him working us. And then when w e works is like how dare they do that I'm sure every employee is the best of you know what that does when you work the audience people tune in when people tune in guess what the boys get paid more.

32:25 So I'm happy with that if there's a guy in the locker room who is pissed off because he got worked he's in the wrong business that's all this is you know the best part about this whole thing Jeff is how much. Like backlash did you also see about wwe unreal where they're showing the behind the scene stuff and then a week later everybody gets worked which basically shows you that the whole thing is smoking mirrors like it's literally just to kind of give us a taste and then not show you how the magic actually is done like I loved everything about this even though you and I sat here and said this is probably what's going to happen.

33:08 But the fact that they actually pulled it off and we see backlash from the dirt sheets that she can moaning that they got worked look I said all along I still think set tweaked is neat. You know like you don't like when you're a Birmingham you don't go visit James Andrew just to go have a lot you're he literally went to the medical center to get his knee checked out and there was structurally no damage it was just a tweak let's play with that and run with it. And they did a great job you and I were last week talking about like Ron breakers stepping up as the leader of the group while set this out like the fact that they worked everybody is a tribute to how good programming can be what is done correctly I said earlier I don't think it was only three people that knew what was going on like there were a handful of people but those people know to keep their mouth shut and don't ruin the element of the world.

34:06 ruin the element of surprise that is what draws people into pro wrestling. Like we talked about it when Hogan passed. Like the whole Piper's pit with Andre ripping the cross off as a kid, I bought into that. As a kid, if you're a CM punk fan and he captures a title and then Seth Hood winks everybody and cashes in and steals the belt, you're now going to be a lifelong wrestling fan because of that moment. Like it's things like that is what cement's lifelong viewership as well. So W.W. is there's a ton of credit for keeping it under wraps, keeping it hidden and getting a big payup at the end. And if Mike Johnson is Sean, they're all sat and those guys are pissed off that they didn't have the scoop, do a better job at getting scoops.

34:52 That's all you can say. Yeah, I mistrust my ass and if you think I pissed off about about this way to you, we get towards in the show because I'm pretty worked about something. Next thing here, Dr. Tray is obviously the return of Brock Lesnar. There's a lot of controversy surrounding him rightfully so because he was named in the sex trafficking case that John Laurenidas, Vince McMahon, a part of Brock Lesnar has been named in this case and he was removed like two years ago from the World of 2023 weekend when the case dropped or was filed and Brock was basically summarized.

35:36 He was not named in the case but it was like a former UFC champion and WWE champion. Well, I'm sure they're not sending pictures to Ronda Rousey folks. So it was pretty, you never know with Vince. He's kind of a free base on this case, allegedly, reportedly, however you want to put it. So Brock is allegedly part of this case. He makes his return. I did not think he was ever coming back quite honestly and when Cena was walking out in the music kit, it was a holy shit moment. Again, cloud of controversy around this, similar to the Seth Rollins stuff, but on a completely different level, different topics at John Rauss level in that sense. It was more like holy crap that really doing this because did not see this anywhere.

36:19 Nobody was even talking about Brock returning. So there's actually as we're recording this show, there's a bit of an interesting twist and update to this because on Sunday night, WWE got rid of the press conferences and now we understand why because of the Brock stuff. There was a huge contingent of people being like these are pointless, they make no sense for WWE. They got rid of them, they were applauded and then Brock comes back and they're like, oh, that's why they did it. Just funny how people think, but nonetheless. So in the post show, Triple H was asked about Brock returning. And again, this comes to us from WrestleLops and the post show from SummerSlam on night too. So Triple H states that John Cena essentially wanted Brock Lesnar during his retirement tour. Quote saying, one of the first things I said to him, Cena, is who do you want and how and we're working through that?

37:04 End quote. So as we're recording this show, this quote comes out and it comes to us from WrestlePieres via Adam Glyn on X. So John Cena says, they deal him I play him regarding Brock Lesnar's WWE return. Quote saying, I've been saying the same thing for 25 years, they deal him I play him. You know, I'm just really excited. We got like 12 of these things left. I think SummerSlam was an indication for the audience where everybody kind of knows where we're closing our book. And just because I closed my book in December, that doesn't mean the WWE closes its book. They got it to continue their programming going forward. So they're just trying to make the most exciting shows for the fans.

37:44 A dozen of them, a dozen of them I got left, they deal him I play him. So Sunday night Triple H basically says we brought Brock back because Cena wanted him. Cena says on Tuesday, they deal him I play him regarding Brock Lesnar's return. Now there's a little bit of like an intriguing twist on this thing. So did we do this for Cena? Because the Cena Lesnar match outside of all the other BS that's going on and with Brock. Like 100% if Brock did the things that he did or was part of it. Then yeah, he shouldn't be brought back. But in this country, in this until proven guilty, unless we're on X or social media basically.

38:26 So WWE says John wanted him back. John says WWE wanted him back. Where do we stand on this entire thing with a controversy of Brock Lesnar? Because moving everything aside, Cena Brock retirement tour makes 100% sense. But there's a shrewd of controversy and a dark cloud over Dutch tre your thoughts on this one. >> So I'm going to break it down like this. I think that John wanted Brock back. They have, I don't know if they're friends, but they have a very high mutual admiration for each other. Like Cena wouldn't have taken that ass with it in the summer slam, what, 2013, 2014 from Brock, unless he admired Brock.

39:09 Like that doesn't happen. And now we kind of get that chapter closed on this retirement tour. I'm fine with that. And to me when Cena says, hey, they deal the cards, I play them. That doesn't mean they're picking my opponents. I'm having the matches. Just like, hey, they're putting people in front of me that I want to work with and then I'm going to make the most out of that thing. So it was a little bit of like triple H kind of throwing Cena under the bus, but the same time, Cena is the ultimate politician. I actually think that he'll be the 51st president if given the opportunity. To me, it is a little bit of just like, hey, this is a guy that John wanted.

39:52 He agreed to it, but John's not going to say he asked for Brock back because of the backlash he'll get if he says that. So it's a little bit of a both sides play it. When it comes to Brock coming back though, I don't have an issue with it because I've gone through and kind of read the reports and read the legality of it. Never once in there is to say that Brock actually has sex with your nel grant. It says Vince was using her to try to lure him back, but it never says like Brock actually did anything. And then he's not even in appropriate with her like his actions were not coming up as inappropriate. It was Vince sending him inappropriate stuff.

40:32 And I mean, people can text you a picture and you can't do anything about it. So I don't have an issue with it because like you said, he's never been accused of anything. He's never been charged with anything. To me, it's not even an innocent until proven guilty situation because he's never been accused of anything. Like he, nothing has come out this that said Brock did wrong. So plus, appreciate Brock's wife. He really pissed off if he did say that and say we'll still even at 60 some years old. There's still not a chick you want to mess with. Though a legal, WWE's legal team cleared his return. So there is, that is a part of the story that is forgotten about here.

41:12 So there are people that are under the belief that either he's going to be acquitted, or moved from the case, that's the onset. The WWE would not put themselves in this position. So he is a participant in this entire thing and whether you agree or disagree with this, I'm just saying this for contextate, I don't necessarily agree with this. This is a case where men are behaving badly. This is guys being dudes type stuff. This is not something that is entirely different from some friend groups out there. Not all men are like this. There are certainly people that I have come across in my life that will talk about their concuss when it comes to relationships like Vince McMahon was doing.

42:01 So innocent until proven guilty in the court of law, guilty until proven innocent in the court of public perception most of the time with cases like this. It's a very, very slippery slope. We'll get more information as it comes. If there's more to this story or more that Brock is involved with, that showcases that he is a participant in this entire vile disgusting thing, then yeah, WWE should not have brought him back. But right now they have brought him back and they're rolling the dice and it's just interesting because WWE saying no, we John wanted him back. And when I originally heard that, I'm like John Cena has like this really squeaky clean like image in public perception. I'm like, does he really want to be tied to this?

42:43 And then Cena is like, no, no, they want to come back. I'm just playing the cards that they're dealing towards me from my retirement or just please enjoy this retirement or so. Very controversial subject. Outside of all that stuff, boy, it was a huge shock and a major surprise and one, we did not see coming. But similar to Seth Rollins' thing, from a wrestling fan's standpoint, it's unfortunate that there is more to this where you cannot just enjoy the wrestling and there is some outside stuff that obviously gets in the way. So WWE wanted him back, Cena wanted him back, somebody wanted him back and he is back as we will begin in a Brock Lesnar, John Cena match here in short order.

43:23 Maybe as soon as Clash and Paris, we will be getting it. With that said, Dr. Ray, looking at Summer's Fam Week in a Loan Saturday and Sunday, what was more shocking to you? Seth's cash in or Lesnar's return? Lesnar's return for me. I still thought they were trying, I mean, when you're a publicly traded company that is no longer owned by the McManager under the TKO and Brella, to get all the machinations together to get brought cleared, to bring him back, something we haven't seen in two years, for all reports you as Persona and Grotta, like to see him actually come out. And by the way, I want that.

44:04 And Vesti had on that Vest was badass. He looked fantastic. So, and then also, it's a little bit like we talk about Goldberg. Brock's daughter is a beast herself and Brock, ingratiating himself back into WWE could potentially lead to my Lesnar having a role in the company when her college career is done. She's the only guy I think a year left before she graduates. So, it's a little bit of like, hey, you got somebody that you want to get set up in a good company that can get you a good career down the road. Hey, let's make nice and make peace. And if it makes the company some money, by all means, let's go there.

44:45 But yeah, seeing Brock, we didn't call that. That was not on my 2025 Bingo card, as Charlotte Flair alluded to, earlier this week. The Seth thing, you and I both predicted it, Brock, we had no idea. Yeah, I mean, that's the simplest answer. Well, the Seth Cation was something that was like 50, 50, 75, 25 in our brains. There were some sort of perceptions that were like, we think this could happen. Lesnar's return on Sunday, if you asked us on last Thursday, 0% chance. I did not think they were bringing him back. I did not think that he would be back until this case was behind him and well behind him. I don't think he would be removed from the case, then the next day they bring him back. I think they would want a decent amount of distance from Brock Lesnar being involved with this case.

45:30 So, Brock's returned by far the most shocking thing. Another thing that we did not have on our Bingo card, Dr. Trey, and then I would even consider it more shocking than Seth's Cation. On Friday's SmackDown, John Cena returned to as a babyface. So he cuts a promo. Like two weeks prior, they had that Cody Rhodes forged his signature when he was passed out, put him on the contract and that was legally valid. Then a week after that, Cody says, I want the old John Cena back. Then the next week heading into Summer Slam, Cena cuts a promo, cuts off Cody Rhodes, basically says, you were right, Dwayne and Travis Scott left me behind to their plan and never played out.

46:18 I was hustle, loyalty, respect, the champ is here. He hit all the notes and he ended his promo. He walks out and I like to think of it as like, what the hell was that? He's back as a babyface. The only thing I can think of was like, okay, so Sunday, we're going to get the entrance, we're going to get all that stuff, but he's got to turn. He's got to like fool us again and we're going to be like, damn it, he got us. We thought we were getting the old John Cena and basically it was like one opportunity to one more opportunity for him to play the hits and come out until the very end and that didn't happen. Instead, he stayed as a babyface. There were some heal tendencies in that match, no doubt, but he stayed as a babyface, passed the torch to Cody and now he is a full-fledged babyface again.

47:03 Dr. Trey, we talked about this when the elimination chamber moment happened. He turned heal. By year end, we just could not imagine he goes off in the sunset as a babyface. There were some really cool organic things that were happening and I go back to the end of the Randy Orton John Cena match at Backlash, back in May. His first title defense as WWE Champion following WrestleMania, he's leaving the ring and you could see him looking at the fans and he's really thinking to himself, did I make the right decision here? It's like, oh, they're teasing it. They're teasing it.

47:45 I felt like that would have been great to get there, but they completely fast-tracked it, which to me in my mind, bad creative, not well-written payoff after a really cool angle that they played off in late February, early March. This basically happened because they knew Brock was returning and they needed to turn in babyface at some point, which I hate. There are so many different ways around this. Like, give me the slow burn where he's really contemplating, like, did I make the right decision and have him agree to Cody. Like, you want the old John Cena for one night only, even though I cannot stand these people, you will get the champ is here, you will get the old John Cena.

48:29 And as that match plays out at Summerslam, he is starting to realize the fans are behind him that he needs to start turning good. And then he, the match still goes off as the same thing, but he goes into it as a heal, playing the greatest hits, but comes out of his babyface, shakes Cody's hand, passes the torch, you're the better man. I'm sorry. Brock comes out, lays him out, and then now he's the sympathetic babyface. And then the next time he returns, whether it's this Friday, it's back down like he's supposed to be back, or they sell the injury a little bit more. He apologizes to the fans, telling him I'm back, the champ is here, and you're going to get the same old hustle, loyalty respect. I would have liked that to play out more than just a promo basically killed the last six months of the John Cena character.

49:17 I could not believe that he returned to babyface as a babyface that way. I am pissed. Are you happy or are you pissed with how this played out? I'm totally pissed. This is the worst babyface turn since Alberto Del Rio turned babyface because the Spanish announced Abel got broken. If you've been a fan of the show for a long time, you remember that one. It made zero sense because also you're basically just telling the fans, "Hey, forget what a dick I've been since the "Lemission Chamber" and all this stuff I've told you guys about how you mentally abused him and all this stuff for all these years.

49:58 Forget I said all that. It's just back. And then blaming Rock and I was actually surprised he mentioned Travis Scott because I thought he was also a person of non-grata in WWE. It is to me, it's just a lackluster turn. Am I here when I played it out? I'm like, "Okay, if you want to get there, you have the match. You have to do a little bit of shady underhanded stuff." Then you get to the finish. John raises Cody's hands and the fans are buying into it and then Brock hits the ring and cement it. But to actually have that promo on Friday, it defeats the purpose of the match itself because you want John to pass the torch by basically Cody out hustling him, doing the John scene up better than John Cena.

50:49 And then get to the Brock payoff. So yeah, it was just unnecessary. We saw Super Cena back at the CM Punk match when you know, Bronson Reed comes out and they're seeing it hitting the attitude of justment on Bronson Reed. That's Super Cena. That's not the heel Cena. But we still got the heel payoff in that match. But that was the slow burn. But to do it in that weird promo just kind of felt like paying no attention to the man behind the curtain is like a little bit of a wizard of Osborne shit. Yeah, I hate shotgun stuff. I hate stuff where it's not well written. And this is going to come off as a shot to AW, but I really am enjoying what AW's been doing lately.

51:35 But what I did not enjoy this past Wednesday's edition of Dynamite was this random way. MJF just got moved out of the Hertz Indicate. Like he's no more on the Hertz Indicate. I'm like, wait, what? We did weeks and weeks of television where MJF had to earn his way into the Hertz Indicate. He's in the Hertz Indicate. It's working really well. It's great. And in two weeks time he's gone. They just removed him and it's from Shelton Benjamin. I'm like, what the hell just happened here? And this is similar to the John Cena thing, but on much, much, much larger scale because this was a widely talked about moment. And here's what I'm fearful of, Dr. Treyk, as we wrap up everything from the entire weekend. Because they did it on Friday night, they did it on Saturday night to close, they did it on Sunday night to close.

52:18 I am really worried that WWE is sacrificing good creative television by just getting viral moments on social media, whether it be on TikTok, Instagram, Facebook, wherever, X, even. I think that they want to play these videos where John Cena cuts a promo, they put it up on YouTube. They get millions of views on all these platform, all these places on social media that you could check out and they're happy with it. They want Seth Rollins to cash in for all the million social views, millions of social views, same thing with Lesnar's return. They are sacrificing good creative content, something that made them so good over the last three years that Triple H took over creative.

52:58 And their sacrifice is saying it potentially for social media views. Like that is my interpretation of this. Do you think that plays a role into it? Or am I looking into and depthly as we look back at the entire weekend of Cena is now a baby face, Seth Cashin and Brock Lesnar returns to WWE? >> No, unfortunately that's the world we live in. I mean, it's all about viral moments and trending and getting as many clicks. I mean, hell, that's what made Logan Paul or Logan Paul a mega star was his viral stuff. And I think WWE is leaning into it because they're still trying to capture a more youthful audience as well. And so, hey, can a 14 year old kid sit through a two hour, two and a half hour raw or two hours smack down or two nights of pro wrestling?

53:44 No, but he can ingest it in viral moments and that's them just trying to play to a younger demographic, but it sucks because it does sacrifice the quality and good television writing. And I think that is kind of like the crux of where we're at as a society in a lot of ways is guys like you and me will watch a show for five, six, seven, eight, and a half. Seven years to get a great payoff. And younger viewers are like, no, I'm not going to watch all that, just tell me what happened and what's the cool stuff. And then they lose the quality in that programming. And it's a little bit of, you take the old crash TV from the 90s and put it in the clips and that's kind of where we're at right now where you're sacrificing quality just for content instead.

54:32 Yeah, you're sacrificing quality just for quantity of views because I think they would get larger views. Like I can understand the Lesnar return and the Seth wrongs cash when it comes to these views thing. But I think you would get more views if it built up to John Cena's like as enough is enough. He's coming out to address the WWE universe. I am sorry for everything that I did. This is post summer same everything that we saw happen like the leap Friday smack down and just play out that everything else took place. The match with Cody, you want the real Cena? You're going to get him on Sunday. Does the whole shebang of old school Cena people are going nuts and as the match goes on, he's realizing he needs to turn back here shakes Cody sand doesn't want to leave wrestling blah, blah, blah, blah.

55:16 And then Brock takes him out like that would have played out better with a full fledge 100% baby face turn. I would be preferring today that Dr. Trey and I are sitting here talking about, do we think Cena's turning baby face? Rather than Friday smack down happens, there is no build up to John Cena potentially turning his baby face. And if you missed the show or watched it on DVR, you're like scrolling through X and like, I'll watch Smackdown later on. Maybe I'll watch it Saturday morning and you're like, wait a minute, what? Cena says he's back. Champions here, he's shaking hands, kissing babies. Like what? So I don't know. He was just very, very frustrated and see it play out that way after a really cool and fun execution that came out of nowhere back in late February early March when the elimination chamber took place.

56:05 So John Cena is back as a baby face folks and we've got four months left of John Cena. I think the moral of it all though is Dr. Trey point out when we were talking about the match recap of Cena versus Rhodes, there has not been a bad John Cena match. It's his return. His character overall has been very good. But there's these men in black moments as I always say Dr. Trey, we're gonna want to forget it. How this played out, but I think this is going to be a hard one to forget because it played a major role in a farewell tour of John Cena. So there you have it. There is our summer slap. Summer slam, not summer slap, but that's something that I think Dana White slap competition show is doing right now.

56:45 Summer slam recap and review edition of SRTU. With that said, let's get a couple plugs and spots out of the way you can support us over at patreon.com/srtupodcast and get this show ad free along with so many more exclusives coming out all this month. You can download the show every Thursday Friday at realguymedia.com, Russell Chatnet on X and the server will show feed on Apple Spotify wherever you download this podcast. Don't forget to rate, review and subscribe as the algorithm is king for us to keep climbing the charts on those podcasts platforms. You can follow us individually on X for myself at SRTU.

57:27 Jeff, you can follow me on X at the Dr. Trey on Facebook and Instagram Dr. Trey Franklin. When you're on Facebook check out Rockets in the Championship Wrestling, we just have the Sean Shocker Evans Memorial Term of this past Saturday. Sean Evans won the Trainers of Kurt Angle when Kurt was making his debut. One of the biggest reasons Rockets is up and going today. So be sure to check out those shows. And then most importantly, get out and check out your local independent wrestling shows because YouTube could find an independent wrestler who might become a WWE referee or something like that. But that's the lifeblood of professional wrestling or those local independent shows.

58:10 So get out there and check out your local shows. So there you go. Support all the great things that support SRTU and keep spreading the word about the Still Realty Show. Anything we talked about on this week's edition of the podcast, hit us up Facebook.com/S Still RealtyShow. To X.com/SRTUBODCAST or patreon.com/SRTUBODCAST for those that are subscribers and supporting the show in that way. So until next week for Dr. Ray Franklin, I am Jeff Pact. This has been The Still Realty Show.