Remembering Benjamin “PAC” Satterley | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #868 – 10/1/26

0:00 Welcome everybody to this week's edition of the Sto Realta show episode number 868 for October 1st, 2026. Obviously a different version of the Sto Realta show. Unfortunately throughout the years we have had to do these shows when news likes that like this has dropped. We will not be covering AW all out today. We will not be having our normal show. Instead we are going to be taking the next. However many minutes this episode is unfortunately remembering the life of Benjamin Pock Saturday who did wrestle this past Saturday at AW All Out known as Pock and AW Neville, Adrian Neville and WWE and NXT. This is a heavy one. I don't feel like doing a normal show.

0:52 You've got Jeff Peck, you've got Dr. Trey Franklin, Benjamin Saturday knowing around the world of this Pock and WWE fans as Neville passed away this past Sunday unexpectedly at the age of 40. I just turned 40 years old myself. AW announced this passing the night after all out. No cause of death has been publicly disclosed and of course we're not going to be speculating about that on this week's edition of the podcast by any means or nor anytime soon. Or ever quite honestly. Today is simply about remembering Ben Pock talking about the rest where we watch for so many years, the moments that stayed with us and the legacy. He leaves behind. Usually this is where we get into the biggest stories in wrestling. This week again, neither one of us really wanted to do that after the passing of Pock, Neville, the man that gravity forgot. It didn't feel right to talk about anything else so this episode is just us remembering him. Dr. Trey, heavy show, heavy thing to go through.

1:51 Sadly we've we've been through this way too many times as wrestling fans as hosts of a wrestling podcast. Here we are again. What was your immediate reaction when you heard the news about Pock passing away on Sunday night? I think I got to feel worked through Twitter and then immediately everybody was on there saying, "Oh it's fake news, it's a hoax, AEW, I act." And it was just shocking because like you said, he had just wrestled an incredible match at all out. And you know, just kind of monitoring it through the evening. I mean, although it did come out officially on the AEW website officially first really, it was just so shocking. It's just like you couldn't believe it was true and then of course, you know, the way the internet does with their whole life. It's a hoax, it's fake. You know, Wikipedia says this or Google said this. It wasn't everything updated that it kind of sank in that, you know, it's real. It's it's truth. It's not a hoax. But you know, I'm sitting here, you know, four days after it's announced and it still feels unreal. Like you're still just kind of like, I can't believe that really happened. And it may not be until, you know, Fordous Closure Record the show on Wednesday, but in Dynamite air tonight, it may not be until I sit down and watch Dynamite tonight that it really

3:22 kind of fully sets in that the world lost lost this man. Like just, you know, one of the better in-ring talents of a generation. I'm sure we'll get born to all that stuff here. I love it. But like, yeah, as of right now, it still just kind of feels not real and unsettling in a lot of ways as well. Yeah, I'm really numb to it. I saw the news about like 50 minutes after it dropped on AW social media channels and I just happened to open up Twitter, saw it and I was like, wait, what? Like I saw the graphic. I'm like, what does this say? And it was just numb to it. I mean, and you look at the date. So I'm born and I'm 40 years old, like I mentioned, you look at the date's 1986, 2026 and it's like, wow, life is precious. You think about your own mortality. You think about like, did something, was there an injury at all out the night before that caused this? Like, how was he found?

4:23 What, how long has this been going on? Like, would you have health issues? Is this real? Like, you just jumped to so many conclusions and you're like scatterbrain looking to see if this is fabricated or not, then you're seeing like, you know, some of the leading folks in the wrestling journalism game like Sean Ross Sapp and John Albagoon Live talking about it. And it was, it was difficult to take in. I mean, it's a human being. It's someone who has a wife. I don't believe he had any children. Had a lot of bonds with people that he was on the road with. From everything that we're reading, was a fantastic and one of a kind human being. But while you want to give flowers in post-mortem, you don't at the same moment. You want to say those things when, when people are here about what they mean to you and how much they, how much you cherish them while they're here. And we always seem to be doing that when it's, when it's after the fact, you know, all of us that live in Linnlis into this podcast or part of this podcast, Dr. Trena, we've all experienced loss. And in the wrestling community, it's a weird thing because you, at least for me, you get tied to these people, you read up on their careers, you watch them grow as human beings. Like there is no other form of entertainment that's like that. Like when someone starts their baseball career, you don't see them in Little League and they make it to the majors and your heart is full for them. When they play the NFL,

5:55 you don't see them playing Pop Warner and Flag Football and they make it to the NFL someday. You watch these men and women in professional wrestling, enter the ring for the very first time after being trained and performing and getting better over time and then taking their talents to the next level, which in Pox case was in WWE as Neville and then later back on the independent wrestling scene in Back in A.W. as Pox. Like, and I remember hearing about him, I went back to some of the early shows that we, we covered here and we used to have a gentleman named UK Sue who was this big British wrestling fan and I remember him and a former guy that would come on the show a lot big time Benning Lopez, who's a big wrestling fan, lives here in the United States, them talking about, we were doing like a wrestling roundtable and talking about Pock. You know, people didn't know if it was Pock or Pock basically and how big he was on the British wrestling scene and this was like the infancy stages of the internet where you would just have to find stuff either through tape trading still or on message boards or on YouTube. I mean, there wasn't as what it is today where you could go on to a streaming service and watch, you know, a wrestling promotion that is out in London or in Germany. And that's how you kind of learned a lot about him or you'd read about him up on PWInsider or oneRustling.com and that's how it was and it's a beautiful sport in that way Dr.

7:12 Tre where you see these people grow from their very first matches to their unfortunately last match and there's a connection between the wrestlers and fans that is kind of unsaid but when spoken out loud it's truly a beautiful thing and that's all I could kind of think about when I think about Pock because he's almost like a distant family member that you don't know but you know something about as a wrestling fan. And me being somewhat in the inner wrestling community is kind of like the older seven degrees of Kevin Bacon but when you're inside the business it's like two. You know I'm literally like they're not just like having this all happen I'm like I'm watching like guys I'm friends with like post these heartfelt messages about you know their experiences with Pock and you know it's just like damn like in you your heart goes that even more because you know people you care about are hurting because you know of his passing it just it once it kind of puts everything in perspective like you know you're mentioning earlier like you just turned 40 I turned 50 next year like this this guy's you know this young man's like 10 years younger than me and I'm like yeah he's traveled the world and he's seen a lot of stuff but I'm like yeah it's amazing I'm still here and that person is gone so you get a little bit of like survivor guilt off of it in a sense well but you know it's it's it's weird sometimes when when we lose somebody in

8:48 this business and you see a lot of outpouring of love but then there are people who are quiet about it it's like okay maybe those people are just kind of holding their tongue because they didn't like this person it's this has been uniformly like you know just one of the nicest sweetest guys in in wrestling and you know it's ironic and tragic that one of the last things he posts it was his picture with the butcher you know from just you know they just posted just a couple weeks ago after the butcher's passing it's just it's heartbreaking in the sense of losing somebody who's so incredibly talented way before we should have lost them it's heartbreaking when I see people that I love and I care about hurting so badly because we lost this person is just sad for the wrestling community's whole because you know we went through this kind of in the early 2000s where we lost a bunch of guys you know you know the British Bulldog and all these guys you know they run the same time and then we had a reprieve and it just kind of feels like the last year and a half has been like no we're getting back into that that circle again and it's just like man like it's just succing all these people that we kind of look up to and admire and cherish and you know just losing their lives way before it's really time what was the first pock novel moment that came into your mind as you kind of reminisce about him dr. tre so I knew absolutely nothing about pock really

10:26 until he got to NXT like I would read about him and it was almost like big foot of sense I make these jokes sometimes where it's like yeah there are rumors of this really talented British guy doesn't crazy aerial stuff but I could never see him like I would get these videos and it'd be kind of blurry or grainy or they're just shot in a weird angle and you just you're like okay that guy seems cool just don't know about him you know and you and I when when we first started to show like I was watching NXT on YouTube before got moved to the network and and I kind of break up NXT there's like the YouTube air which to me is defined by bodalis and then there's the original network launch which to me is defined by Neville and Sammy's ain't and that first when he first debuted in NXT I was like man first of all he's way smaller than I thought he was going to be I hear about him on the internet and you hear like guys like you case two and these guys talking about him first you're like man this guy's larger than life like he's a real life superhero and then you see me like he's like 5'8" and 170 pounds he's like this flying ball of muscle with these really pointy ears I kind of thought like he was part elf when I first saw him I was like well maybe this is when Peter Jackson wrote Lord of the Rings Neville was the guy he was using the typecast you know

11:58 some of these people but you see him in the ring and you're like man this guy is incredible so though those first early matches in NXT when they got just basically kind of showcase his talents but then really that latter match with bow Dallas for the NXT championship was a kind of really kind of like set it off from like now this guy's incredible like I I think you and I you can go back and look at the history of the show like I always said like I never thought WWE would use him right because of his size but NXT he was used right and it made a ton of sense and but that first latter match with bow Dallas where he won the NXT championship was really kind of what cemented my fandom for Pock. Let's look at the journey here for Pock so he's born in Newcastle upon Ty and England began his professional wrestling career in 2004 built his reputation international and long before WWE wrestled across the British scene dragging AWG and around the world his athleticism was the obvious hook but what's separated was how precise everything looked the spectacular never-loved reckless with Pock/Nevil the black arrow became one of wrestling became one of wrestling's most recognizable finishing moves the corkscrew shooting star press like in the late 90s the shooting star press was already a difficult move and here he is doing a corkscrew shooting star press he had a rivalry with ricochet a Pock and ricochet became defining rivals during their dragging eight years in November 2011 ricochet ended Pock's 447 day

13:33 opened the brave gate championship reign that rivalry became part of the blueprint for the explosive athletic style that would become increasingly influential throughout wrestling today. What stood out about Pock he could do things athletically that very few wrestlers could do but he was never only a quote "high flyer" it was power intensity, technical wrestling, selling, pacing and character work that eventually made him one of the most complete wrestlers of his generation. Dr. Trey was there ever another wrestler whose movement in the ring looked quite like his? This sounds bad. The closest thing I am not on the high flying level but the way his movement in the ring was Chris Benoit. Everything was so Chris. I think there were lurid times watching level or a K-A Pock that I'm like is he really hitting this guy? Is it like he blurred the line?

14:34 A lot of times in the ring between that like is this real? Is this fake? Because everything he did was so Chris so clean so violent looking but in a lot of ways like really beautifully artistically done. Like he was to me like when you talk about like the artistry of pro wrestling Pock is an artist like everything he did was just that beautiful blend of violence and poetry at the same time. Yeah no he is he's in an eggma. His style in the ring is unmatched and I like the comparisons.

15:16 It reminds me of Benoit, Dynamite Kid, that short, stocky muscular person just like this muscle hamster that's out there and he was able to evolve where he was just this short skinny with muscle still high flyer into a walking muscle that could do things in the ring that you've never seen before. Truly exceptional. Always love the character work. Loved how much he kept K-Fabe in the last, I would say 8 to 10 years of his career when he was in NXT and it was the man that gravity forgot he was a baby face that was a very good baby face. When he started becoming the king of the Cruiserweights and turned heel one of a kind. They put that cape on him for a little bit and then when he started doing King of the Cruiserweights which basically morphed into who he was towards the end of his career. It's just such a fun overall character and for me my real first introduction to him like you Dr. Trey was those NXT years. So Pock Neville signed with WWE in 2012 becoming an agey Neville. He was an NXT Tag Team Champion and NXT Champion. He held the NXT Championship for 286 days from February 27th which was that launch for the WWE Network when they did NXT arrival where he defeated Bodeals in that latter match to December 11th 2014 where he dropped the title to I believe Samisane. His Championship run came during the era when NXT was transforming from

16:46 developmental television to the brand's brand that fans become passionate about today. His title lost to Samisane and NXT takeover our evolution in December remains connected to one of the defying stories of early NXT. He debuted on WWE's main roster in 2015 to solely his Neville. They dropped Adrian WWE market him as the man that gravity forgot. His red arrow immediately gave WWE something visually different from almost anyone else on the roster. He reinvented himself as a heal and became the King of the Cruiserweights, won the WWE Cruiserweights Championship twice, first reign last in 196 days. The character showed a completely different side of him, bitter, intense, vicious and most importantly believable. It proved he could be much more than a spectacular athlete WWE originally presented. What stood out for him there were two very two very different WWE versions of Benjamin Sattelay worth remembering. Adrian Neville, the breathtaking babyface who helped establish NXT and then Neville, the angry King of the Cruiserweights who showed how good his character work would be. Dr. Trey, which WWE version of Neville did you enjoy the most?

17:53 >> Well, naturally the villain in me loved the King of the Cruiserweights version of Neville more. I like the pissed off angry guy because it's hard to be an undersized heal without a stable around you. In the rest of me, calm the heaters. You get the small, pocket arrogant heal and then he's got the big muscle guy behind him. Neville never had that. He didn't need it. Now in WWE's defense in a sense, they kept him in the Cruiserweights division where he was physically on par with everybody else. But that run, especially when he brought in the brutalizer as a finisher, you're just like man, that realism in the character. It felt so natural for me, so pissed off and angry and bitter. It just fit him so well, which was kind of a surprising twist because the Adrian Neville character, the high-flying baby face, it never showed any inkling of that. But that Neville, brutalizer, King of the Cruiserweights, that guy, it was really like to this day. There are very few characters that I watch and I go I wouldn't mess with that guy. That version of Neville was that guy.

19:15 I'm like yeah, that guy just looks too pissed off, too angry, too muscular and too athletic for me to even fathom competing against in anything. It was as close to real life characterization as I've seen in wrestling in a long time. Yeah, that was him in a nutshell. I mean he was one of a kind. He was truly, again, I just used the word enigma when I think of him and I loved, really now, again, here we are throwing our flowers for it's in, but when you think about the character adjustments he made in WWE, I mean it's phenomenal. He went from one end of the spectrum of being like this comic book hero to the bastard that we ended up seeing in AEW. And that's where it takes us here, Dr. Trey, and this next chapter as we remember, Pock Benjamin Saddley was his time in AEW. He joined AEW in 2019.

20:11 As one of the promotions important early signings, he was red hot on the independent wrestling scene. He had not lost on the independent wrestling scene and there was like a little bit of a cripple about him and his feud with Hangman out of page because he didn't want to lose to Hangman Page and like there was something where he was gone for AEW for a little bit and maybe talking in WWE about a return, then eventually came back to AEW. The name Pock returned but the presentation was completely different from WWE's Neville. The bastard felt like the fully realized version of everything he could do, a lead athlete, dangerous wrestler and believable character. There was the death triangle triangle, his partnership with Penton Ray Phoenix became one of AEW's most memorable trios. Death triangle gave AEW three wrestlers with widely different personalities who somehow fit together perfectly. Pock later became a two-time AEW World Trios Champion. Remember that that was Trio Swar, the vest of seven between them and the elite that was a lot of fun with the NBA on NBC music playing every time they would promote it. He made history at Forbidden Door 2022, Pock defeated Malachi Black, Mirro and Clark Connors to become the inaugural AEW All-Annic Championship.

21:22 That championship was later renamed to today the AEW International Championship. In his later years he eventually became part of the Death Riders, even after years on television he gets up into virtually any match and immediately feel credible against anyone. His final match, the Dr. Trey talked about the beginning there, came at AEW all out this past Saturday September 26th, where he challenged on Dr. A. L. Edelow for the AEW National Championship. It's very difficult to process that one of the last images wrestling fans have of him is still doing what he had done for more than two decades, performing at the highest level in a championship match. What stood out for Pock, AEW never needed to explain why Pock was dangerous. Fans believed at the moment he walked through the curtain. Dr. Trey, what Pock match rivalry or death triangle moment will you go back and watch first as you kind of go back and remember Pock and all the wrestling?

22:17 Actually, one of the first matches I went back and watched was from all out 2024 that match with the Will Ospreay. That was a fantastic match. It got overshadowed because that was Swarven Hangman were on that show, a couple of bigger matches, but that match, kind of to me, was the launch of Will Ospreay to where he's at now. You and I have thrown out the phrase like the best soldier in a company. Bench and Chris Jericho in the past, Ray and Jordan, levels that guy for AEW. When you're trying to get somebody over, you put them in the ring of the level. They're going to have a great match. People inherently wanted to boo, level, AKA Pock, sorry, but it launched a lot of guys, but that match with Ospreay last year was fantastic. I think I actually read that that was the only Meltzer-Given 5-star match of Pock's career. Some people say it was because of Ospreay, but that match, you go back and watch, it was just incredible. Was it the Iron Man match he had with Hangman?

23:26 Also back in like 2022, I think it was. It was really good. Man, his match with Orange Cassidy, with that rivalry he had with Orange, was really underrated because it was just so two totally different styles. I saw somebody refer to as the Bugs Bunny Wrestling Style of Orange Cassidy versus the Tony soprano wrestling style of Pock, where it's just like comic versus like just serious, going to just try to kill you. Even that match, I'm sure it'll get maybe some undo love later on because it was last match, but even that match with Andrade Saturday night was fantastic as well, but that was just a couple of the ones I gave him top of my head from his A.E.W. Run.

24:15 Did AW give us the best overall version of Pock in your mind? I think they gave us the best character version of Pock we could get, like the presentation when he first debuted, and then, you know, Justin Roberts the way he announced it, and everything else. I think it gave it the best character presentation you could do. He is bastard. Yeah, that was so good, you know. And I think it was Marina or somebody like Ermai Ben Asprey said he's our bastard. Like I love that. Getting a little choked up thinking about that.

24:59 You and I had talked about like I was waiting for the Pock Claudio to kick Moxley out the death writers angle, which I'm sure was going to come around at some point. I got really excited a few months ago when they did Pock in Claudio versus Cajun Cope because I was like, man, I'd love to see Claudio in Pock just be a full-time tag team because their styles would have blended together so well. We got instances of it, but you know, it was always kind of like Pock and Udo or Claudio and Garcia. It was never just Pock and Claudio. So I still think there was a lot to do with the Pock character, but presentation-wise, I think AIDA, if you had a home run with that character and how they presented it, and how he showcased what he really wanted that character to become.

25:54 Let's talk a little bit about how the wrestling world has responded, Tony Khan said, Benjamin Sattelay defined excellent praising his wrestling knowledge, athleticism, professionalism, consistency, and dedication to the sport. We'll ask for a call from the greatest expert from our country and describe Pock as a hero. Tributes have come from wrestlers of promotion across the industry and not just AIDW, WWE opened both Raw and NXT with Memorial Graphics honoring Neville/Pock. Penta, Becky Lynch, and Bailey were among those who publicly honored him on Raw. The Rock also joined the many people throughout wrestling and paying tribute. AIDW has the addition of Dynamite dedicated to him this evening. We are recording this before that show airs. So if you're listening to this on Thursday, that's why it may sound a little bit different with that show not already taking place. As Dr. Trenor recorded this, Will Osprey versus Reckashe 2 wrestlers whose careers are deeply connected to Pock was announced specifically as a match in his honor. This is the legacy of Benjamin Sattelay that will be showcased. He wrestled for more than two decades, helped to find an air of NXT. He became one of WWE's most memorable cruiser weights.

27:03 He became an important part of AIDW from its earliest years. He influenced a generation of wrestlers who saw that size that not limit him how believable, physical, or spectacular a wrestler could be. And perhaps the most telling part of the reaction to his passing is how many people have talked about Ben, the person, not just Pock, the wrestler. Dr. Trenor's, we look at final reflections here. What made Pock special to you as a wrestling fan? As a babyface, he was defined by the plucky underdog super hero abilities that kids look up to. You talk about defining a generation 20 years. I mean, you go back his debut in 2012. I mean, that's 14 years ago. There are kids now who are breaking into wrestling at 20 years old who saw him when they were six. That's one of those influences. That's one of those guys they could look and go, hey, I'm under six foot tall. I'm under 200 pounds. But I could do this. I could be like this person.

28:08 Ray Mysterio defined those guys for the generation that you and I grew up in. Neville's one of those guys that can define it for this generation. As a heel to be that small, but to be just like just an utter pit bull of tenacity. Like you just you knew if if Pock was in that match, it was going to be hard hitting. It was going to be physical. It was going to feel uncomfortable at times. And for guys like us that still love old school wrestling where it felt like you were about to watch a fight. If Pock was in the ring, you felt like it was going to be a fight. You know, older guys like us, we bitch and complain about we don't like the flippy wrestling. We don't like all the high flying stuff. I never had that issue with Pock. I could watch a Pock match any day of the week. And even though there's going to be some crazy high flying spots, it made sense for what he was doing as a character. So I think the biggest legacy for him is just going to be kind of helping redefine this current generation of wrestling we're watching and setting the bar really, really high. So that when people don't measure up guys like you and me get to call them out on it. Yeah, he is he's a special special wrestler. Again, defined a generation. There's there's there's many of them that are out there, but I don't know if we ever have a ricochet if there's no Pock. I don't know if we ever have a Will Osprey if there's no Pock. I don't know if we

29:42 have the athleticism, the move set that he brought to the forefront and defined that is now what I would refer to as almost normal nowadays. Well, about 20 plus years ago, it wasn't normal. It wasn't normal to do a corkscrew shooting star press. It wasn't normal to do flips and be a tight technical wrestler given his size when you were that size that like Pock and Benjamin Sattelay was. It was you were defined strictly as a high flyer and not someone that could be this snap mirror takedown, snap suplex, vicious pit bull as you said or bulldog in that ring with a defined character that was believable. Given his size, he's probably in height around the same height as Dr. Trainai, maybe smaller, but I would be scared, shitless if I was in a dark alley with Pock.

30:38 What's really cool to hear about is that character that we saw on TV, that bastard, that king of the cruiser weights, that man that gravity forgot was not the same person that was off the screen. That person off the screen was someone who is beloved, someone that is appreciated and someone who will be deeply missed. He will be deeply missed by all of his co-workers, the people that worked with him, the people that knew him, and he will be deeply missed by his fans. There's really no easy way to close out these episodes, Dr. Trainai. I'm going to withhold from doing our plugs and spots this week because I don't find that to be very appropriate right now. Before we do close up, this week's edition the show, any final thoughts in regards to our member and seer of Benjamin Pock, sadly.

31:28 The people that you mentioned, the ricochet is the boss phrase, take a guy like Javan Evans. Javan Evans is 20 years old, 21. That's the people we're talking about. That's the generation of wrestling that is defined and influenced by Pock. Our people like Javan Evans, who, six years old, is when Neville joined WWE. That's about the time he said he became a wrestling fan. So seeing guys do the stuff that Neville/Pock could do in a ring is what influenced guys like Javan Evans. And Neville would say he was influenced by guys like the Dynamite Kid.

32:12 Those are the ones that last forever. You and I have told stories to friends and younger people about like, "Oh my God, you think that's high-tech, right? Go back and watch tapes of the British Bulldogs." That's going to be the Javan Evans Deville Ospreys. You think, "I'm good, man. You need to go back and watch tapes of Pock when he was in Dragon Gator, PWG, or check out this." Those things like that define wrestling, but the person he was, you see the outpouring of love from everybody around. There's nobody being quiet about this. Everybody's saying how much they love him. If the rock comes out and says, "Give flowers to a guy like Pock," you know. And rock never crossed paths with him from as far as I know. But that's the kind of person that Benjamin Saturday was. So his wrestling legacy is well defined, but as a person, the outpouring of love and support just shows what the measure of the man really was. Dynamite's going to be a heavy show. Most people, you all are listening to this after you probably seen that show. We have not seen it yet. We are recording it on Wednesday. This is where we typically record the show for the time being. It's going to be a beautiful tribute. I wish we didn't have to watch it by any means, but it's going to be emotional night for wrestling fans and wrestlers around the world and the wrestling community in general. So there isn't really a perfect way to end an episode like this. We will be back next week with our normal run and talk about everything going

33:46 on wrestling. But for now, it did not feel appropriate to talk about anything other than this when we lose a member of our wrestling community and family. Someone that is so impactful and important to all of us in Benjamin Park, sadly. So rather than to summarize our career that took Benjamin sadly all over the world, we'll just say thank you. Thank you for the matches. Thank you for the moments. Thank you for everything you gave professional wrestling. Rest in peace, Ben.