Does WWE Have A Problem Booking Their World Champions? | The Still Real to Us Show | Episode #757 – 8/15/24

0:00 It's welcome everybody. Welcome to this week's edition. This story on the show EPISOD number seven or fifty seven for August eighteen, twenty twenty four. Welcome to this week's edition of as RT. You I am one after the show, I am Jeff Pack joined every single week are Hoist Loly, Doctor Tray Franklin, Doctor Tray. I know you may not feel this way that I'd like to give you a title shot, my friend.

0:43 I mean, am I going into a gauntlet match? Or is just because we're friends and I don't deserve it, but you think I look pretty sweet with a beer and a Jebby and a little bit of a beer gut. I just think you deserve it. You may not feel that way. I think you deserve it. I mean, I'm just saying because we saw this on like two different shows this week, whereas like, Eh, you haven't really done anything, but I'll give you a title shot, or Hey, I know you're not even on this Bram, but I'll give you a title shot, or hey, we're gonna give a chance to one of six people who've never. Had a title shot. Who knows. It's like Oprah, everybody's getting a title shot, whether you deserve it or. Not, let's get into it, my friends. We talked about the end of last week's show. It was bleeding in and out of a lot of the things that we were talking about in regards to Cody Rhodes, in regards to Bailey and I simply put does w we have a creative problem booking their World champions And as we talked about here just now on the top of the show, we were interested in the direction of Cody Rhodes heading into Bash and Berlin. We were thinking maybe Cody and Roman tag together to take on Solo and Tematunga Tungaloa.

1:51 Obviously they keep Jacob Fatu. Instead, they went to Cody Rhods versus Kevin Owens. Because Cody Roads simply wants to give Kevin Owens a time shot. Kevin Owens doesn't think he deserves it. They threaten to give it to Roman Reigns and then he was like, all right, I'll take it, basically, and now that is the match at Bash in Berlin, Gunther is defending his World Away Championship against a SmackDown star Because of the King of the Ring folly back in May, where Randy's shoulders weren't pinned. I actually like that a full disclosure right now. I actually like that they're circling back around in this. How they got there is kind of iffy, but I liked that they got back around to it. We discussed Bailey's in title title entire title run as the WA Women's Champion kind of falling short a little bit, being a little bit inadequate.

2:41 Doctor Trey just pointed out the NXC Women's Championship. They're gonna have a I think a six woman gauntlet match for people who have never had a championship title match in their entire time in NXD this Tuesday's edition of NXC. If you look at the women's title on Raw the world, uh huh, what is it? The Women's World Championship on Raw Live in Rhea. That makes a ton of sense. I love the way that they booked that. But looking at the grand scheme of things now, Doctor Trey and we'd even see Naya on Friday's edition of SmackDown to follow up up on SummerSlam. As now she is the WA Women's Champion. I simply put in and out of the show last week. Does w we have a creative problem booking the world champions. I still think they do, because some of the hottest feuds outside of Rhea and Live Morgan right now all involve no championships whatsoever. What say you, my friend, We've had a week to think about it.

3:41 See if this, if this conversation had been say pre SummerSlam, I would have appreached a little more patience because typically WRESTLEMANI is the culmination of all the rivalries, a year long build up, and then we start fresh. But we're post SummerSlam, and at this point usually you've kind of started to build the next hot guy to kind of come up to challenge the champions, and we really haven't done it. And like we're talking about last week, you know, when you have a guy like Gunther, who on his own show is maybe the fifth or sixth most over guy on his show, and he's the world champion, it makes anything he does right now, unless he's competing against one of those other top five guys, is going to be down the ladder. When you have Cody, who is arguably the face of your company, and you said last week that you felt he is the face of the company.

4:36 Now he's going to be overshadowed by Roman and you don't have a hot heel to put him with. You have to make weird pivots I mean. And this ties into the Bailey stuff because even when Bailey won the title, her first few was her first match was really with Naomi, kind of the same thing we're seeing with Cody and Ko where it's like, hey, I'm going to give you an opportunity even though you really haven't done anything since you've been back, to deserve this. I don't know if it's a creative issue. With champions or just a creative issue with building other heels up to kind of like a heel without a group or a faction or something that's where Hey, whether it's the old school way, we need the monster of the Month club, or we need the next devious guy, or we need somebody, but really there's an issue with just heels.

5:25 In WWE as a whole. And when your roster's loaded with a lot of top babyface guys, you kind of need somebody for those guys to fight, and right now we just don't have anybody. Yeah, It's it's a really interesting thing that's going on right now. I kind of think when you look at the SmackDown side, then the way that Cody Roads has been booked. I've been very adamant that coming out of WrestleMania, I have not been the biggest fan of the Cody Roads booking. I like the stuff with AJ Styles, The Logan Paul match for Saudi Arabia was just to appease the Saudi Arabian audience. The stuff with Solozaka, the bloodline that made sense going in SummerSlam, coming out of it again now Bash in Berlin, it's like he's he's stagnant, and I think that there are easier ways to go and say we're gonna put Kevin Owens in this match, other than just saying I want to give you a title shot. Like I thought, that was very very strange, Doctor Trey. I mean, how do you not do a number one contenders match, How do you not have Kevin Owens versus Solo, versus AJ Styles versus La Knight, whomever, or do a little mini tournament to build to Bash in Berlin so that Kevin Owens comes off that he does deserve this opportunity. I think Owen's just saying he doesn't deserve it and kind of you can't disagree with him in a sense because the way that he's been booked and he's gotten a lot of losses lately, it's just it's just strange. And again, I didn't know if

6:57 it was a Cody problem specifically, but I I think it's a World Champions problem right now. And it's almost like WDWI has booked so heavily into the Bloodline storyline that they are focusing on some of that and the World titles taking a back seat on Raw. Maybe Punk Drew McIntyre is leading the charge ahead of stuff with Gunther. Certainly you saw that kind of play out in the segment this past week. I mean there's so many different directions, Like I get doing the orton gun through match, but I would have liked to got in there other than him just coming out and challenge him to a match and Yaomi won, Like I would have loved. Bronson Reid took out Seth Rollins two weeks ago, Great Bronson Reid took out Our Truth this week. Great put Bronson Reid in the match with Gunther, Like Gunther's gonna enter Berlin as the hometown favorite, Like put him in there against the heel Bronson Reid and make Bronson look great and Gunher delivers in a great match. Gunher gets a victory, but Bronson looks still pretty strong. That what made sense to me. It just I feel like we're in a stagnant time for w William. We're just kind of in a holding pattern right now for bigger stuff that's going to take place down the line, for Cody Rhodes, for Gunther whomever. At this point.

8:19 Yeah, I mean, like let's just looking at a SmackDown and we not only we have the Cody giving you know, Ko the match, but if you want to see the issue, you have the brand new United States Champion and the first person that they bring up to have him to have challenge him is Santos Escobar. Like, that's your number two singles heel right now, that's not in the bloodline, Like that's the number or is he the number one heel? I mean, that's your number two title. That's your hot baby face United States Champion. And the first person you have him pair off Agains is saying, now, that's not a knock on Santo's as a performer. It's just that. Really since the LWO and you know, went the wrong, like Santos really hasn't done much, and then it just feels like they don't keep their heels as strong unless it's Gunther Like the whole thing with Bronton. Reid's great for the last two weeks, but where was this for the previous six months that he's been on the show, Like they just really have a hard time building up heels unless they're part of a faction, and then for some reason it's like we have to do faction against faction, Like legitimately, you just let Bobby Lashley.

9:31 Walk out the door? How great would Bobby Lashley and Cody b for Berlow? Wowint Man, you. Know something like that, Like you weren't doing anything with them. You could have resigned them even for a short term, put them in this angle. And these guys have history from God forbid hena Impact game, so it wouldn't even be like a first time match like this is something that happened in Impact, so like there's some history there as well. But otherwise what are you going to do? Like, like how how does this whole thing play? Like this? Cody Ando is just a filler until. We get more bloodline drama to add Cody to the mix or Kao does something else, or you know, it's just it's very confusing when you look at that ross and you're like, Okay, well AJ's not doing anything right now, so he's not available. He could have cycled at least that backup to give Cody something to do.

10:20 You want all last fails break Aj styles glass. Yeah, you know, in case of emergency, you know. And but just the fact that you know Carmelo Hayes, you know that we could have revisited that and you could have helped build Carmelo up at least in the meantime, or Carmelo in La Knight. You know, like there's just a heel issue in WWE outside of maybe the bloodline Gunther and Drew in a little bit and now Finn, but really maybe raws just too loaded. I don't know what the fix is because they just SmackDown's done a great job with the bloodline stuff, and you know, the La Night Logan Paul stuff was pretty decent. But really, you look at that show from from top to bottom, they're just every champion feels stagnant. The tag team divisions feels stagnant, Women's division feels stagnant. It is just the whole to me that there's more of an issue with that show than really anything else.

11:16 And the other thing, too, is if you're in a holding pattern right now, then what I would be doing or what I'd like to see as a wrestling fan is elevating new stars. And you may hate me for this idea, but as we were talking about it, Doctor Trey, I could get behind Cody Rhodes and Kevin Owens being in a match with a world title on the line. But why don't you add maybe Grayson Waller and Austin Theory in there. You make it a fatal four way. Those two guys have had like this weird quasi. They may not They may be breaking up soon in Austin Theory may becoming a babyface. Uh, Grayson Waller may becoming a heel. I think the Grayson Waller heel run has a lot of upside to it if they execute it rather soon. I think he has a lot of upside to be in an uppercard, mid main event level picture as a really really good heel. And Austin Theory is a babyface. I don't know if I could get behind that, but that would be interesting. Like you do a match where Cody and Kevin Owens are all of a sudden they have a running with atown down under behind the scenes in the backstage area, and that leads to a match on SmackDown which then gets blown apart in a double disqualification, and they decided to make a fatal four way match at Bash and Berlin for the toddle on the line, and you're using Kevin, you're using Cody'd helped elevate Austin theory, and Grayson Waller is as legitimate heels on the SmackDown brand. That would be something new and different.

12:36 It really seems to me that I felt like the direction was going to be Randy and Cody coming out of SummerSlam, and I think that may have been where the tee leaves were heading. But with the stuff going on with Judgment Day on Raw, with the stuff going on with Bloodline on SmackDown, they had to change things around a little bit, because, as you pointed out, you know, it's not just the heel problem on the SmackDown side outside of like the major storylines, We're having that problem on Raw as well. And I wonder, just talking out loud, doctor Trey, I wonder if the seth rollins injury, so he's he's injured and it's only gonna be a short period of time. I wonder if that has played a role into it where they had to change things around.

13:17 That almost makes sense, as I'm talking out loud, that could have changed things up a little bit and made gun Through go this way with Orton from SmackDown and then made Kevin Owens go with Cody Rhoades like I don't. I mean, these matches at Bash and Berlin are gonna be solid, They're gonna be a lot of fun. I think the feud build is gonna be decent. It's just how we got there coming out of SummerSlam. It's like, uh, how do we do this? So it just it just leads creed into the discussion we had on last week's show We're caring over right now, is do they have a creative problem booking their world champions Because outside of some you know, really good storylines that may have had a world title involved for a little bit or not, whether it be the bloodline, whether it be Judgment Day, it's like Cody on his own kind of mediocre stuff right now, Gunther on his own very very short term is a little mediocre right now. I thought that they helped elevate that a lot this past Monday where they integrated the punk Drew McIntyre stuff in there. I think you saw Gunther backstage really pissed off with Randy Orton and everything that took place. Like, I liked that. Now, this is the tried and true discussion we always said to have. It reminds me of Ray Mysterio in two thousand and six, Ray finally climbed the mountain, won the world championship Freddie Garrow who had passed away months earlier, and then his world title run was kind of boring.

14:40 Fans lost interest into it. The biggest thing that was going to play a major part in Cody Rhodes is once they finished the story, where do they go from here? And I know he said, well, the story's never finished, but I think in the eyes of the minds of the fans eye it is, so where do they go with Cody from here? Is really really interer. It's it's a challenge and I do not envy the creative team right now. Yeah, I mean, especially if if you know the old saying was when WrestleMania, and you're already kind of putting the next year's WrestleMania card in place, and if on that card you're looking at, you know, let's just say Cody and Rock like you're trying to get to that, you know, or something like that. Like it's really hard to backfill everything in for a year because obviously you want Cody to have a decent run with the title.

15:33 You're hoping you don't have to take it off of him between now and WrestleMania. But you know, at the same time, you have to kind of go like, here's our here's our roster, here's our our pecking order. We need to make sure that this thing stays pretty even between the heels and baby faces. And we've seen that. You know, you and I have been doing this show for a very very long time, and we've seen times like this where somebody gets hot and you feel like, oh crap, he has to go be a baby face, and it throws off the entirety of the show because you don't have that balance, you don't have strong babyfaces and strong heels. It feels overloaded from. Time to time. So it is kind of just you know, a machination of the machine where you know, all of a sudden you just flip Damien Priest to a babyface and then you know, you know, Gunh. You're trying to keep Gunther getting booed, so you have to put them with a strong baby face. In Berlin, if you put it with a Bronton read, then the crowd's gonna cheer for him, and then the American crowd might think that, oh crap, we like Gunther too now, and then Gunther ends up being.

16:37 A weird baby face. Like you kind of have to be careful because of how you put guys together because the crowds. Crowds are fickle, to use an old Daniel Bryant saying, crowds are very fickle. Uh So, just depending on your booking, the whole thing can turned around. Because I don't really think them getting to where they got with Damian Priest was the plan until the crowd started to get behind him, and then oddly enough he starts wrestling more and more like Undertaker. So I don't know if that was the case or not. But the strap's coming down and everything else is very reminiscent, but it's just maybe poor short term planning to try to get to the long term storyline sometimes where stuff like this happens.

17:21 Yeah, I think they got a problem. I think David always a creative problem booking their world champions right now. I mean, the Bronson Reid short term build should not be better than Gunther, and I know it's two different things, and it's like it perks mind just a lot more when they're getting bronze and read over versus Gunther, But Gunther I think should be built better in a very short period of time as a new world champion than Bronson Reid. And the same thing with like bron Breaker. I mean the build for bron Breaker on Rod's been really really good. Yet gon Thor was like a way off television for several weeks getting ready for SummerSlam. So it's all very interesting and it's just funny that this kind of like fell into our laps a little bit, just conversation and then literally that SmackDown the night after our podcast. It was like, Kevin, I want to give you a title shot. No, I don't want to take your title shot. Well, I'm going to go talk to Adam. Adam, I want to give Kevin a title shot. I think that's a great idea. Cody Kevin's like, I don't want the title shot, Well, then we're going to give the title shots to Roman. Well then I'm going to take the title shot. He doesn't deserve it. Okay, We've got our Matchum Passion Berlin and I'm like, what, Like, were they listening to the show and they were like, we want to give these two guys that do a little wrestling podcast some more fodder on their on their show the following week, because I know they mentioned at the end and here we are, So yeah, there's definitely created a problem with booking the World Champions. I just is it the title or is it the individual doctor try Yeah.

18:45 By the way, why the hell was it Adam Priest on SmackDown. Excuse me nick All this? I said. I meant to say, nick All, this my apologies. I was like, I got thrown off for my apologies. Yes, but yeah, it's to me. I don't know if it's there's a problem with booking World Champions when you don't have anybody lined up dicks and maybe they thought the stuff. Maybe they thought. Roman was going to be away longer and they had planned to do a couple of things with Solo because to me, actually the whole Solo Roman thing felt a little rushed. It felt like because for a while it was the whole like I was talking to Roman, I'm the tribal chief while he's gone, and then all of a sudden he just turned. It was like, basy f Roman.

19:33 Roman was weak. It's like when if this happened, it just came out of nowhere. So I don't know if it was we were going to do Solo and Cody for a couple of shows, and then Roman was able to come back earlier, and so it changed the booking as well for this because if you got Cody and Solo for a couple shows like for summerslamb Berlin, and then the following month then Roman returns leading into Survivor series, that timeline would have made more sense. But instead, to me. That whole Loveline thing kind of came out of I don't say that out of left field, but it happened a lot sooner than I expected it too. Agreed. I agree. So, yeah, it's interesting times for the creative team. We often praise them lately, but you got to point out when it's like a little bit confusing as well, and I think they're in a very weird time and I think they'll get I certainly believe they will get to a great spot. But right now, in the dog days of summer, there's a little bit of like head tilt a little bit when it comes to certain people in their storylines and they hold world titles, and it's like, I think they're got a problem book in the World champions right now, because that's certainly how it looks like, because if Judgment Day is outperforming and I know Live and Really have a world title in there, and that is a case that is where they are not having a creative problem. But I think that is a grander scale of everything. And yeah, it's it's just really strange. So the number one contender for the World aweight Championship on Raw is SmackDown's own Randy Orton. He had a sit down interview with Cody Rhoads for his

21:05 new YouTube show like something to talk About or what the hell is the thing that Cody always says, what do you want to talk about? And they brought up John Cena's retirement run and he said he wants one more run with John Cena. He said, John is kind of like going in an organic way of of how this has all got to take place, but he thinks he's got to get there at some point. And when you look at John Cena's career, like I think the rock to his Austin is Randy Orton, I think there are people out there that will make the case that edge is in there as well, and I would agree, But those two guys were the flag bearers for the company, you know, in the early to mid two thousands till the mid twenty tens, Like those were the two guys that were running the show. And I think Randy mentions in the clip that I watch that I know at times it was like being shoved down fans throat and it was like too much and people were getting sick of it. And I was like, oh yeah, I remember those times where it was like we're getting another Randy Orton John Cena match on Raw, We're getting another Randy Orton John Cena match on a pay per view. But it's like nostalgia tells me Doctor Trey that I would love to see one more run. And when I think of people, I would love to see Johnson have a little mini feud with a match with There are people saying that they want to see this at WrestleMania. I personally would have see him punk in there as well, but I think it's I think it's Randy Orton, doctor Trey.

22:35 So do we want to see Randy Orton have one more run in twenty twenty five with John Cena for old time sake? Uh? Yeah, I would be opposed to it. I mean between the YouTube thing with Cody and then the little promo back and forth with Gunther and him, you know, bringing up fifteen times and stuff like that. I mean, fourteen times going to be fifteen times all that stuff like in twenty years in the company, Like Randy can still go and Sena can still pretty much go. I know the last match we saw him in was the solo match and then you know the Austin Theory match. But you know, Scenic can can pump it up. I think what he feels like he has to pump it up, so you know, to have one more run with those guys, a little bit of the one instead of what was the one?

23:26 The one and done with Rock and then actually became the second one? Was they was eight and twenty nine I was at twenty nine, but twenty eight was the one and only match or whatever. Yeah, but once in a life. Until we do it the next year. Yeah. But I mean, you know, and then we had the. Best wrestling match ever with Randy and Edge. I mean, we could do something like Sena and Norton Last Time Ever type thing. Yeah. Yeah, and that has a lot of credence to it, right, that's a lot of build I think fans were being clamoring for. Yeah, I mean, and I think for the guys in the fans in their late twenties, early thirties that kind of grew up on the Sena Ordon era, like, I think they'd be all on board for it, and I don't.

24:09 I wouldn't be a poser. I'd love if somehow Randy did win the title and then that match with Sena would be for Sina to break the Flair record or you know, for Randy to hang on to it. You know. I know this is a little side thing here, but I was thinking about this this this week as I was watching Raw and Smack Down everything else, Like Orton twenty years in the company, you know, fourteen world titles. But I don't know if at any point in the twenty years he. Was the guy. And I don't know if there's anybody else that has that kind of resume where it's like the guys and you know, arguably Mount Rushmore, you know, arguably top ten all time, but was never the guy in WWE. So that's like he maybe he's the best. I don't want to say this, it sounds hurtful. Maybe Grandior is the best B plus wrestler of all time.

25:06 I think to me, Doctor Trey, that Sina was Hogan, Orton was Savage. Yeah, but even Savage well did any. But Orton had a similar run there, like when Sina was away or they would put the title on Orton and let him be the face for a while. There was a period of time where they tried to he was one of the hottest baby faces at a period of time I think was after I think it was twenty ten, Like when we first started the show, he was super over as a babyface. And I've always maybe like the rock to the Austin I think on the rivalry side makes sense, but I think when you look at their like the Ladder of w WA, I felt like Sina's Hogan, Orton's Savage.

25:48 Orton is kind of a victim of Sena's longevity. Would that be an accurate way of stating. It in a way, But it was around so long each person, but each person made the other one better. Like I think they obviously they ran that few down our throats. But I think when you look at some of the greatest rivalries in professional wrestling in the last twenty five years, I mean longevity wise, importance, how they carried the company, how they carried the business, what they did for the future. I mean I think it's Sina Orton. Yeah, no, I mean I like you said, like I love the Hogan Savage comparison. I just I was the thinking about it, Like I was, like, I don't remember a time when Randy was the face of the company.

26:37 You know, it's always like there was Orton, but even I mean there was Seena. But even when Orton would get hot, you had Batista right there as well. For a little while, Batista was the face of the company. So like it just Randy falls in that weird crack where because of you know, seen his longevity and how long Sena was on top four, it kind of pushed Randy down a little bit. And made him and we talked about like rand maybe the bet one of the best soldiers of all time when it comes to wrestling, much like Jericho was. It's just was like man, twenty years, fourteen world titles, and I just don't know if I could ever say that there was a period of time like it was never for a year where Orton was the guy, like it was always in short bursts.

27:19 But I mean, to be fair, like Randy was, he's a better heel, Like he's great now because he's like completely being himself and he doesn't give a shit and the fans are embracing him in that sense. I think I think everybody sees the riding in the wall, even though I think Orton just signed like a five year contract I'd read the other day like an extension, Like everybody see, but this could be his last contract. In all honesty, I think a lot of people see and just appreciate what Orton has done. I mean, Orton can turn heel tomorrow, and I think fans will still be happy with him. Like even when he was doing stuff with Edge, people were still like, oh man, this is some of the best Randy Orton stuff. It was like when Sina won the United States Championship back in sixteen seventeen whenever. That was during the SmackDown Live era, and we were sitting here no sooner than that. It was like fourteen fifteen when he faced Kevin Owens, and we're like, I think this is the best we've seen of John Cena.

28:06 And it's because they were out of the world title picture and you were just kind of appreciating their en ring stuff. They weren't the a player, they weren't the person that's in the main event every single night, and you were just watching them work and you're like, damn, scene is good. And I feel like that's how people have been with Orton for like the last ten years now. Yeah, And you know, we talked about this a coop weeks ago, like if Orton did try to turn heel at any point, I think the fans will still just cheer for him because. He's in that I don't know what. I don't know if there's anybody else who's been like, you know, we did get that SNA love the last couple of years, but it was basically gonna be kind of went part time for a guy like Randy right now, who's basically been back for about a year since he's been back maybe a little over a year since return of the injury, like he can do no wrong and he's he I think it's weird because you see him and you're absolutely right, like he's just having fun and not giving a crap and the fans eat that up.

28:59 But it's like I think he he recognizes that he's not it's not so much borrow time, but this is like a second second life for him right now in this run where it was never guaranteed that he was gonna come back from those injuries, and he's just like, I'm just gonna have a blast with it. I'm gonna have fun. And the line that he used with GUNTHERER there and I where he was like I got five kids and a smoke show wife at home, Like that was him saying I could quit tomorrow and I'm fine, but I love this too much and you can see it, and I think, right, like you're absolutely right, Like I don't I don't think, you know, short of I don't know if there's a baby face on the roster that he could attack or the crowd would kind of turn, you know, And I think of even if he turned on Cody, it would be kind of like Becky and Charlotte, where when Becky turned on Charlotte to turn her heel and the crowd was like, Nope, we like her more. I think it'd be going with the same thing if Randy did turn on Cody in the next few months, that the crowd would just be like, no, we still like Randy Moore, so yeah, we'll just boom Cody instead.

29:58 I think they eventually get there, and I think the way they get there's just like a respect thing between the two of them. I do not think it's like a turn from Reindeor and I would be surprised by that because I think we see that way too much in wrestling nowadays, where there has to be like this personal animosity turn, and I think it's gonna be more of a respect thing. Should we get to orton Cody, which I think we eventually do by years en, I feel like that is the few that carries Cody into like rumble in regards to Raindort and something I was thinking about too, if you look from two thousand and two to about like twenty twelve, I don't think he was ever the guy because the company could not trust him. And this is stuff that's like really well documented. I remember it was like talking about in his A and E biography and it's twofold. One is something that he had no control over. He was getting injured often. He had the shoulder issues and he was getting hurt, he had the back problems. And then the second thing was attitude.

30:51 His attitude was piss poor. Whenever they put him in media, it was like he was a complete dick, admittedly. And then the last thing was is addiction to painkillers. I mean, he was suspended multiple times. He was one suspension away from being fired by w W. So I think he was never the guy doctor Trey. And this may be forgotten about from a business standpoint when Sena was on top because the company could not trust him to carry that torch like they may have wanted to when Sina was in and out of the company, or they needed a refresh of John Cena being at top for a little bit. Yeah, that was just one of the things where when you watch that promo, Gunther, I'm like, man, you a fourteen time World CHAMPI there's not a lot of guys above six, you know, and those guys who above were up above six have like maybe Edge was never the guy in WWE, but outside of that, everybody else who's had that many runs, at least at some point was the focal point of the show for an extended period of time, maybe outside of Randy and and like I said, maybe Edged to a degree as.

31:58 Well, Doctor Trey. There are people out there, and this is a podcast in itself, so I don't want to get too deep into it, but there are people out there that will say that Triple H was new for the guy either. Yeah, except that I can go back and say that run he had with Flair, Batista and Orton, that was his time to be the guy. Like, but he was a heel. He wasn't like I think people look at the guy. I see. That's what I mean, Like this could be a podcast. I think people look at the guy as being like a babyface like Codeina. But Flair was the guy in NWA and he was the heel with the Horseman. I think people would argue that though. I think they would say that that Dusty was the guy and Sting was the guy.

32:39 But you know, I still look at it as like the guy that you're making the money off of or the people you're either coming to see win or you're paying money to come see then get their off kicks. Was Piper the guy during the run with Hogan? No, it was still Hogan. See. I mean that's the thing I feel like. Yeah, I mean it's a Ying and a Yang deal. Again, this could be talked about it. People were coming. More people are paying money to see Hogan get his ass kicked than they were paying to see Piper do the ass kicking. Like we all want to see Piper kicking Hogan's ass, but more because we hated Hogan more than we love Piper that more. Sena Orton. Does it happen during the retirement run? Yeah? I think it does. I think you have to do. I think you'll see like Sina with a couple of the young guys and then cut with a couple of the stall warts, uh that he's had history with. I think you'll get sena Orton and you'll get a scene a punk, but you also might get Sena bron Breaker, you know, Sena Gunther.

33:36 I think sena Orton happens as well, and I think it happens at WrestleMania Doctor Try. Yeah, I think the one thing I will say, thank Gods in here because that would be the world title match. That'd be It would be a world title match. I don't think if one of those guys would be comfortable with that at this point, but yes, I can understand that perspective. Keeping up with WWE here we did not talk about on last week's show with everything going on, but I want to talk about on this week's show. The Wyatt Six, Joe Gacy, Eric Rowan, and Exll Loomis made their en ring debut on last week's edition of Raw. Ten days ago. They defeated American Maid, the Creed Brothers and Chad Gable.

34:18 Is. What is your thoughts on the n ring debut and their run so far early on Doctor Trey, Because I gotta admit, I don't think it's as going as well as I thought it was going to go. I thought their in ring performance was really really good, Like I love that each one of the guys, and this may be something I don't know if everybody picked up on or everybody did pick up on it. I really didn't get on social media much afterwards to kind. Of see the feedback play. Every single one. Of the guys did something that was either Bray or Brody you know, whether it's Gaycy upside down or littlemis doing his little slide thing. But that's very reminiscent. And even you know Rowan doing the shout out to Brody Lee as well. I like that part. I think the issue that you run into with this group, and this is something we've talked about the past, is when you have a group, or you have somebody who has their character is tended towards the dark side, that it's really hard for them to be believable babyfaces because they don't have obstacles to overcome.

35:24 It was always one of the. Issues with you know, Taker when he was fighting smaller guys, which was like they needed a group or they needed to be you know this, you know, some underhanded way for you to feel like Taker could lose that match. Otherwise he had to fight. Big guys his side with a group like the Ya six, which outside of Rowan, none of them are giants. I mean, Loomis is a tall guy, Casey's dick, but like you just you have to feel like they have obstacles to overcome to cheer for them, and I just don't know if that's the ways to me, like, when you have characters like this, they're better being portrayed as as eels. But must we talking about Randy Orton. I don't know if fans could booth the Wyatts or the Whitat six with the history of the Wyatt family being like the direct lineage.

36:13 Yeah, no, it I think the thing I like the end ring stuff. I thought that was good, and I thought they did a good job of kind of like address seeing that they're not gonna have like these supernatural powers type stuff like we saw in the beginning. The thing I'd like to see a little bit more dout Trey Is. I thought the obviously the Uncle Howdy bo Dallas and Eric Rowan vignettes were really well done. I was left wanting more with Joe Gacy, Dexter Loomis and Nicky Cross. Did you feel that way? Yeah, because I wanted Loomis to and I don't and I don't remember the video over Bayman saying with Jaycy's but like I wanted Loomis to lean in more into him being abandoned by the way and by Andy Hartwell and hell. I mean, now that we have TNA talk, you can talk about how he was abandoned by TNA, you know, and that's what led him to where he's at now. Saying with Joe Gacy, like he had his family that he had started to build, much like Bray Whyatt built his and then his whole family abandoned him in NXT and then how Uncle Howdie found him, Like you want to kind of feel for these guys and feel a connection and that understanding of abandonment, and that's how they got to where they're at now. And I don't think they did a great job with Loomis and Gaycy and Nicky Cross and that I mean, Nicky's been abandoned by everybody in WWE literally like herl like they fired her husband, her best friend's gone, Like they've done

37:44 all this crazy stuff with her, and I just wanted some more of that. I think they did a great job with Bo and with Eric. I just don't think they did a great job with the other three members. Yeah, and I just feel like they're it's kind of like stop start a little bit with the Wyat sex. I don't know what's going on with the American Made feud. I don't know if that's done now, but i'd liked I would have liked to see more integration with them heading in the SummerSlam. I thought they should have been on the card somewhere somehow, some sort of segment even and I'd like some sort of clear, concrete plan with them going forward. And it's very funny, God rest his soul, but we loved bray Wyatt. And one of the big things that we always complained about when it came to bray Wyatt, whether he was The Fiend or his final run in we was like the way he was booked was like you see him for a couple of weeks, a couple of months, he'd go into a match at a peri view, then he woul disappear for a while, and that kind of booking never was good. And it's it's like, you know, we talked about earlier they have issues with a creative problem with with the World Champions.

38:48 It's like, do they have a creative problem with booking anything whet, whether they're supernatural And it's it's eerily reminiscent to me as a fan watching at Home to the way that The Fiend was was was booked in the way that bray was booked. Towards the end of his fun to run with the company. Yeah, and lovely is it's there used to be the old story. It's really hard to book. Babyface giants like you think of. You know, we always joke about Big. Show and how many times they flipped them back and forth, because it's really hard to book somebody that the crowd can kind of, you know, cheer for if they're bigger and badder than everybody else, because there's no they don't show a flaw. There's one of the reasons why people had a hard time cheering for Sena, you know, for a long time, because he was Superman. It was hard to beat Superman. It's hard to beat Hulk Hogan in his era. It's hard to beat the Undertaker as well.

39:40 Like you have to feel like there's a chance for these guys to be defeated. And that was the issue was with the issue that I had with the Fiend. I love the Fiend character, but he was almost unstoppable and when he did lose you and I was like, what the hell? That made zero sense? A La Goldberg. Beating the Fiend like you you almost have to make them heels just because they're so overpowered or they're so dominant. They need to slip up for them to lose. If a babyface slips up, we treat him like he's a dumb ass. So it's really hard to book characters like this for long term, especially if the crowd loves them.

40:22 It's just like, well, what game, Like, what group could you throw up there right now against the Wyat six? And you're just like, all right, there's a chance they might get their asses. Kids, There's really not one. I mean, we just saw the Final Testament get beat up by one guy last week, you know, the blood line. Outside of that, there's not really a heel faction that you can look at and go, yeah, those guys could take the Wyat six. I mean, and dear God, typically I love faction nicknames. But American Made Jeff, you know me, That's all I wanted to hear. I just want to hear them change the word mail to maids.

41:02 Like American made. American made its. Scottie Riggs and Buff Bagwell will show up in weird overalls with nineties glasses on and clapping above their heads. Not gonna like seeing Jack Gable in Paris this week. I got Scottie Riggs and Buff Bagwell vibe from him walking around in. Paris, American males Uh switching gears to AW and what kind of quasi awnwe Uh? There are several reportedly current AW stars that are contemplating and jump to w W. You've got the Luca Bros, pent and Ray Phoenix that are reports out there that Pents be in Orlando, that there's been discussions with WA already, that there's been a contract offer for both Penta and Ray Phoenix to join WI.

41:46 Uh. There's the belief that Ricky Starks, once his AW deal is up, will be in W and Daniel Garcia, which at one time seemed like a foregone conclusion that he was going to be re signing with the company. They ran the angle where MJF took him out basically because his contracts coming up in October so he could return. What do you if he were signs with the company as like this huge hero or he was written off for good that now Daniel Garcia is reportedly conflicted about leaving W W or W for W A W four w W, Penta and Ray seemed to me, Doctor Trey that they are W bound Ray Phoenix. Excuse me, Ricky Starks. It seems to me that he is w bound. Daniel Garcia, I think he stays with AW. But your thoughts here on some of the names that are contemplating leaving AW for WE reportedly.

42:33 Yeah, I mean, I mean, what else can can Pena and Ray Phoenix do in AW? I mean short, I mean, obviously, I don't think either guys, you know, a world champion challenger, so I think they've kind of maxed out with the CAN. I think pens is one of those. I think Penta is one of the best in the world of kind of recognizing what his ceiling is in a company and knowing when to get out before stuff goes really south. I mean, they're they're in a comfortable spot there. I mean, you can put him in WWE, and and you know that helps spice of the tag team division. They know that WW can market mass wrestlers very very well as well, so that that to me seems like a logical spot. The Ricky Starks thing, I mean, dear God, I mean, the guy's literally trained the Nightmare Factory and in Jake Cargill's posting stuff about it, so that one seems like for gone.

43:21 But Daniel Garcia one is interesting because you know. If you had asked me a year ago, I would have said there's no way he's going to w W E. And then he had this this run where he was dancing. And I was like, Okay, well, he's got a little bit of. The entertainment side to him. He could be more than just you know, the good wrestler type guy. But I almost feel like. He almost has too much respect for like the Brian Danielson's, that John Moxley's those guys, and and and being tight with mjf is it is gonna it be really hard for him to just jump ship. Completely because I don't know if he fits the w W fist or the w look in style, but I would say he's He's probably the one that I would say everybody you just mentioned, he's the one most likely to stay in AAW.

44:09 Yeah. No, I can see that. I can understand that as well. I think all of these stars would be better suited in WE right now. Is that is that safe to say? I would say the way that that nxt uh. And to a degree, WWE have booked the guys that have made the jump from AW. It makes it really enticing to look at that now as a much more playable option. Than maybe a year ago. I mean, you take a guy. Like Ethan Page, who was buried at the bottom of aw's roster for a long time, and he's the NXT champion Lexis King. You know, even Sean Spears has gotten more run than maybe we thought he would an NXT.

44:52 It makes it much more appealing to a guy like a Ricky starz Ortanier Garcia who are still young in their careers and go man, I could make that jump and least strike while the Irons hont because WW is super high right now. But you also have to take a new pants of consideration like yeah, with WW love to have you know, a Daniel Garcia because he's a great wrestler, absolutely, but can they bring more out of him to make him into their type of superstar. I think Ricky Stark pick All agree, is kind of the prototycable w W young, you know, young athletic wrestler that has all the skills that they can kind of capitalize on, you know, and then Penta and Phoenix just have a unique look. So I think Garcia would be the much the ones much more.

45:37 Up in the air. But about any of those four guys, I'd be looking at that lancecape and go, yeah, I can make a mark, I can make an impact, and I can make a bigger name for myself in w w E than I can't hear in AAW. On next week's this is a show we will preview and predict AW all in in Wembley Stadium in London. Dave Meltzer recently, in regards to the Mariah May Tony Storm feud, said on Wrestling's Newsletter, quote, this is probably the best built AW feud in history and has and has made Storm's career. That's trade. Do you agree or disagree with Dave Meltzer? There best built match storyline wise, longevity wise, with everything gone on. It's it's really hard to argue that just because it's been one of the knocks that you and I have had with AW for five years is that sometimes these storylines and and aren't there maybe MJF and Jericho.

46:33 I was gonna say that One's funny you brought that. Up, Yeah, because I was just thinking of MJF. And the Dinner the musical. Yeah, but that might that would probably be one, and then Storm and Mariah maybe too. And it's amazing that it's Mariah May who a year ago wasn't even in the company and was hardly ever even heard of outside of you know, some really diehard indie things. Yeah, I would say MGFF Jericho one is is mine. I would say that was number one. I was trying to rack my brain a little bit. I think MGF Cody. I think maybe MGF Punk.

47:13 Yeah, I mean, okay, so that was really good. Anything MJF for about a three year period. Well, I think MGF is a WWE kid in an AW world. I mean, I think he cares about the storylines, and I think his storylines in its early part of his AW run there as he built up, were really really important to his career. Yeah, mun MGF, Like I still remember Cody taking. The lashes Yep, Yeah, Cody with the Lashes was good. Yeah, so those ones like We're really bad. I still think it's MJF Jericho, maybe MJF Punk. I think I think Hangman. And Swerve has a really big chance to and it's been so short term, but I think that has a chance to be one of the greatest feuds in AW history.

47:56 If they didn't really get back to it. And I think they're gonnat that it's the word. The word right now is is Swerve Hangman it all out? Yeah, I think they can get there. I think they do. But once again it's it's do you buy. I I still have a hard time with Adam Page. I just he's been so good lately. You even enjoyed the stuff. It's it's yeah, it's been better. I mean it's what he's done in. The last year was better than anything he did the first four years. Like even like the stuff he's done with Swerve leading up to now was better than his entire world title run.

48:37 M yeah, yeah, I'm trying to think about the The world title run was not that great. Yeah, so I think the stuff with Swerve is better. I really like the direction, like because in a storyline sense, people should be siding with Hangman Page over Swerve of Strickland. Yet everybody is is siding with the villain, Like the villain went into his house, put the T shirt on his on, Like everybody should be able to relate to that, and he's like losing his mind about it and can't pay any attention. Yet everybody is cheering for Swerve in that instance. Yeah, it'd be like when Austin went in a Pillman's house. If everybody cheer for pilming comes true, it's true true. I would say, going back to Maria May Tony Storm, I think it's I think it's top five. I really liked well, I don't know if it's top five yet.

49:23 I'm gonna say, is I really like the execution of it after she won the Owen and attacked Tony Storm. I don't think. I feel like it peaked there, and I think it's been good. The stuff that you've seen on Collision, on Dynamite whatever, I think has been good, but it hasn't reached the level as it hit when Mariah turned on Tony Storm. Yeah. I think the only issue we may run into is the match. Like, if the match. Is good, it will boost it up for us. If the match is bad, it will pull it down because you could have the greatest storyline in the world. But if the match is god awful, it will completely, you know, disrupt and derail a kind of you know, good feelings we have.

50:08 Towards the storyline. So and as much as I love both these women, they've had some clunker matches, you know, individually, over their time. So I'm just hoping that when you get to All In that this match delivers on everything's built up to be. That is true, That is very, very true, because that's what Hangman and Swerve did in the short term recent memory is they delivered on their matches. Final thing I want to bring up your doctor, Trey. The location for AW All in the twenty twenty five was announced today as we record this on Thursday. It will take place at Globe Life Field in Arlington, Texas, on July twelfth. Tony Kahan announced after that that it would return to Wembley in twenty twenty six for All In London twenty twenty six. Your thoughts here, as this has been rumored for a while. I think Sean Ross sap out out there for a little bit as well. Your thoughts as AW brings All In back to the United States and they take over Globe Blyfield where the Texas Rangers play on July the twelfth.

51:08 I love that in a sense, this is AW countering what we talked about a couple weeks ago with the WW talks for London and Wembley Stadium as well, that we felt like that was wwe going to Aw's quote unquote backyard because of the history of the con family with London and potentially putting a WrestleMania them. Well, hey, let's go to a place where they had one of the biggest wrestlemanis, if not the largest crowd at wrestleme history. Was it was it Arlington? I'm not sure, but it. Was Dallas, right, it was, Well, I guess which is in Arlington. It's the Cowboys Stadium. Yeah, so we can go there and pull a huge crowd in WWE's quote unquote one of their backyards.

51:51 It's a shot back at him. So to me, this was an announcement to counter program WWE London talks, which they had talked about. This was it a couple of months. Ago about them working out a deal in Texas and doing a bunch of shows there for a while. I mean Texas. I mean with the history of World Class Championship Wrestling and what a great talent Texas has been for professional wrestling, it's good to have another base of operations. I mean, we talked about WWE, which, for all intentsive purposes, it was a Northeast company for the first thirty forty years of existence, but now they've kind of taken over Florida.

52:33 Aw's home office home base is Jacksonville. Hey, I need somewhere else I can go where we can draw big crowds, bring in a bunch of money, and then also have a solid talent base to steal from. There's not really a much better place than Texas, other than maybe California. But California fans are kind of I'm gonna use the word again, fickle when it comes to professional wrestling. I mean that to that point that you were gonna bring up, and I was going to say too, it's like, why aren't they doing a show in the Jaguars Stadium. Wouldn't that make sense? It will, it would, But if you stick to your backyard, you become like you're I don't know to. Me, but there's gonna be like no cost to it.

53:14 I mean, that's a really they're doing that really And and and we haven't talked about this yet, but I think they're doing a really I mean collision these last couple of weeks in the Esports Arena. It looks like a low rate like show. To me, it does not look like a normal AW show. And and I understand that it's a cost savings move like that would be a major cost savings move if they went to the stadium that they freaking own. I thought that was one of the things they were trying to work out with the people in Texas was, Hey, we'll do a bunch of shows here and now. There's probably there's there's probably some yeah, well you scratch our back, we'll scratch yours type stuff going on. I mean, yeah, if you want to save money, yeah, you run one in Jacksonville and fill up. Was it M and T Stadium I think it is or whatever whatever the stadium name is.

53:58 No, I think that's Baltimore. I don't know off the top of my head. I don't know where the Jaguars play. I haven't I haven't played Madden in the last three weeks. I haven't looked up the name. So I'll look that up in just second. It was a huge It would be a huge cost saving move because you have to pay any kind of rent fees or anything like that to use the facility. But once again, I think this is kind of their way to kind of go, hey, you want to go to London and and counter program what we're doing in Wembley. Fine, we're gonna go to Arlington and pack out Globe Life Stadium even though it's not at and T Stadium. But hey, if we can put fifty sixty thousand people in Globe Life for an ADW show in Texas, Yeah, that's kind of a shot that we're we're still we're a big deal, even though we may people may not think.

54:43 We are as big as we were a year or two ago. For those Jaguar fans that listen to podcasts or Madden players that were screaming at us over the last minute trying to figure it out, it's ever Bank Stadium. In Jacksonville, Duval County. In Duval County, and they reportedly can hold a record attens was eighty five, thy four and thirteen for Florida State Alabama Crimson Tide game in two thousand and seven. So obviously that fans aren't on the field for that, so it goes to show you that maybe they could fit a little bit more. So. Yeah, interesting that that's that's not on the table. I be intrigued right now what the attendance numbers are for Globe Life. I just I don't know. I think a lot has to continue forward progressively in a positive manner for AW, for them to have strong numbers once they go to a Global Life Stadium next year in Arlington, Texas.

55:37 But huge move for AW, and that will be We're all in is in twenty twenty five, and I think it's we talked about a couple of weeks ago. It's certainly got to feel that this is their WrestleMania based on how they handle booking the show, locations of the show, and overall like hype around it. So it appears they have finally landed on a WrestleMania for AAW. That said, Doctor Trey, let's get a couple plugs and sposor out of the way. You can down the show every Thursday or Friday at Real Guy Radio dot com, Wressell chattingett on X and the Still Rather Show iTunes feed, don't forget to rate, review and subscribe, telp us, climb the charts on iTunes. You can follows individually on X for myself at SRTU, Jeffer for Doctor Trey, Flank at the Doctor Trey and of course don't forget the follow show on X at SRTU podcast. So that being said, what is going on in the one Ful World of Doctor Tref Franklin this week.

56:25 Well, like Jeff said, you can follow me on x at the Doctor Trey. You can find me on Instagram and Facebook Doctor Trey Franklin. When you're on Facebook, we sure to check out rocket City Championship Wrestling. There's a big show coming up this Saturday as we get closer and closer to the seventy year. Anniversary, eight year anniversary of Rocket City coming up this December, so getting really excited about that, and hopefully I'll be ablect to make my return to Rocket City this Saturday because I am out of my walking boot finally, so I might be able to make it up to the show and get back into the swing of things and hopefully at some point turn heel because I. Have been a good guy for far too long. Jeff Pack, it's hard being nice, geez.

57:08 That is what Dan Housen used to say back in the day. With that said, thank you once again for downloading this week's edition the podcast. Feel free to chime in on anything we discussed over on Facebook dot com, slash the Still a realth Us Show, or on Twitter at SRT you podcast once again on next week's edition, this show, which will be on August twenty second, we will preview and predict everything to get you ready for aw all in and everything else that's going on in the world of professional wrestling. Have a good weekend, Thank you for downloading, spread the word about SRT you and until next week. For doctor Troy Franklin. I'm Jeff Peck. This is this is a real less show.