Communication Skills PTs Need But Don’t Learn

WEBVTT

00:00:00.490 --> 00:00:01.733
You're listening to the P.T.

00:00:01.772 --> 00:00:02.455
Pinecast,

00:00:02.575 --> 00:00:04.580
where smart people in health care come to

00:00:04.639 --> 00:00:05.522
make noise.

00:00:05.822 --> 00:00:07.285
Here's your host, Jimmy McKay.

00:00:10.378 --> 00:00:11.579
Rebecca Griffith is back.

00:00:12.259 --> 00:00:12.978
Off script,

00:00:13.079 --> 00:00:14.279
I believe we're going with the name of

00:00:14.300 --> 00:00:15.080
this right now.

00:00:15.861 --> 00:00:17.902
We promised last time that we were going

00:00:17.922 --> 00:00:18.942
to talk about something.

00:00:19.141 --> 00:00:20.702
I'm glad you remembered what it was

00:00:20.742 --> 00:00:22.923
because as people may or may not know,

00:00:23.763 --> 00:00:24.684
I talk about a lot of things.

00:00:24.785 --> 00:00:26.605
By the time we get back to talking

00:00:26.625 --> 00:00:28.585
about the thing we promised, I forget.

00:00:28.806 --> 00:00:29.387
So what was it?

00:00:29.426 --> 00:00:30.746
We brought up a topic towards the end

00:00:30.766 --> 00:00:32.387
of last conversation and it was a good

00:00:32.468 --> 00:00:32.548
one.

00:00:33.024 --> 00:00:33.204
Yeah.

00:00:33.223 --> 00:00:35.067
So last time we talked about negotiation,

00:00:35.127 --> 00:00:37.229
but one of the other things that people

00:00:37.250 --> 00:00:38.710
have been asking me about,

00:00:38.832 --> 00:00:40.273
because I talk about practicing at the top

00:00:40.292 --> 00:00:41.215
of your scope all the time.

00:00:41.234 --> 00:00:42.576
And so people will message me and they'll

00:00:42.595 --> 00:00:43.317
say, hey,

00:00:43.377 --> 00:00:44.478
I really want to practice at the top

00:00:44.518 --> 00:00:44.999
of my scope,

00:00:45.039 --> 00:00:47.142
but I can't because of barriers at the

00:00:47.182 --> 00:00:48.042
place where I work.

00:00:48.624 --> 00:00:50.686
And those barriers seem to be like policy

00:00:50.706 --> 00:00:52.466
changes and decisions coming from

00:00:52.527 --> 00:00:54.448
administration that don't seem very

00:00:54.588 --> 00:00:56.951
clinician-centered or clinician-focused or

00:00:56.990 --> 00:00:58.493
patient-centered or patient-focused.

00:00:59.093 --> 00:01:01.195
And these clinicians are having a hard

00:01:01.255 --> 00:01:03.296
time advocating because they feel like

00:01:03.337 --> 00:01:04.278
when they do,

00:01:04.718 --> 00:01:06.579
they're being labeled as problematic.

00:01:06.640 --> 00:01:08.340
They feel like they get in trouble.

00:01:08.400 --> 00:01:10.563
They feel like things are punitive.

00:01:10.602 --> 00:01:12.805
They feel like clinicians aren't included

00:01:13.045 --> 00:01:13.605
in decisions.

00:01:13.825 --> 00:01:15.807
the policy changes at the phase where they

00:01:15.826 --> 00:01:17.248
should be where that input would be

00:01:17.308 --> 00:01:19.108
valuable and then they just have these

00:01:19.147 --> 00:01:20.948
policies thrust on them and they feel like

00:01:20.968 --> 00:01:23.689
they just have to smile and continue on

00:01:23.790 --> 00:01:25.471
even if they disagree so we were going

00:01:25.490 --> 00:01:27.512
to talk about how do you have those

00:01:27.552 --> 00:01:29.852
conversations with your leadership team is

00:01:29.873 --> 00:01:31.774
there a better way to understand where

00:01:31.933 --> 00:01:34.055
those decisions are coming from and how do

00:01:34.075 --> 00:01:36.596
you bridge the gap between like us versus

00:01:36.635 --> 00:01:36.816
them

00:01:37.304 --> 00:01:37.683
Yeah.

00:01:37.724 --> 00:01:40.064
So I know I have worked in very,

00:01:40.105 --> 00:01:41.486
very structured organizations,

00:01:41.525 --> 00:01:44.266
like large organizations and also smaller.

00:01:44.606 --> 00:01:45.447
There's some structure,

00:01:45.466 --> 00:01:47.347
but maybe less structured organizations.

00:01:48.567 --> 00:01:51.429
And this happens in both of those things.

00:01:51.769 --> 00:01:52.650
So I feel like we need to give

00:01:52.670 --> 00:01:54.430
advice for like super structured.

00:01:54.469 --> 00:01:56.210
I'm thinking like hospital system routes.

00:01:56.650 --> 00:01:59.173
And also smaller organizations,

00:01:59.593 --> 00:02:00.233
some structure,

00:02:00.253 --> 00:02:01.493
but maybe a little less structure.

00:02:01.953 --> 00:02:03.314
What do you do in those situations?

00:02:04.816 --> 00:02:06.796
When you said that person gets labeled

00:02:06.837 --> 00:02:09.758
difficult, you know that's me.

00:02:10.459 --> 00:02:11.879
And I figured out why that is.

00:02:12.200 --> 00:02:13.561
We talked about this a little while ago,

00:02:13.600 --> 00:02:15.162
the six types of working genius.

00:02:16.402 --> 00:02:18.044
And once I figured out what my two

00:02:18.364 --> 00:02:21.026
strengths were, my two working geniuses,

00:02:21.485 --> 00:02:22.546
wonder and invention,

00:02:23.747 --> 00:02:26.649
I love, well, I ask questions,

00:02:27.169 --> 00:02:28.909
but the purpose is to figure out why

00:02:28.930 --> 00:02:29.570
are we doing that?

00:02:30.290 --> 00:02:32.111
And I understand because I've been in

00:02:32.171 --> 00:02:32.752
leadership

00:02:33.586 --> 00:02:34.987
and other people have asking a lot of

00:02:35.027 --> 00:02:35.427
questions,

00:02:35.608 --> 00:02:37.250
I can see how that gets frustrating.

00:02:37.270 --> 00:02:38.310
So I've been on both sides.

00:02:38.330 --> 00:02:40.431
So I try to sort of temper my

00:02:40.472 --> 00:02:40.872
amount,

00:02:41.953 --> 00:02:44.414
the volume and the speed at which I

00:02:44.474 --> 00:02:45.275
ask questions.

00:02:45.634 --> 00:02:47.497
And when, like right in the meeting,

00:02:47.537 --> 00:02:48.697
maybe that's not the best time.

00:02:48.737 --> 00:02:50.179
Maybe it's time for a pause and talk

00:02:50.239 --> 00:02:50.618
afterwards.

00:02:50.658 --> 00:02:53.000
So let's go with super structured because

00:02:53.020 --> 00:02:54.221
you work in a lot of like very

00:02:54.241 --> 00:02:55.901
structured hospital systems or help people

00:02:55.921 --> 00:02:56.242
do that.

00:02:57.463 --> 00:02:59.205
What are the best things to do?

00:03:00.218 --> 00:03:00.359
Well,

00:03:00.459 --> 00:03:01.819
I think one of the things that I've

00:03:01.840 --> 00:03:03.602
realized over the last several years is

00:03:03.641 --> 00:03:05.062
that like as a clinician,

00:03:05.182 --> 00:03:07.925
you feel very much like don't infringe on

00:03:07.966 --> 00:03:10.048
my clinical judgment and I'm here to help

00:03:10.108 --> 00:03:12.490
patients and you're taking away my

00:03:12.530 --> 00:03:12.969
autonomy.

00:03:13.030 --> 00:03:14.572
And in large organizations,

00:03:14.632 --> 00:03:15.932
I feel like it does feel like that

00:03:16.353 --> 00:03:17.974
when they're trying to standardize across

00:03:18.034 --> 00:03:18.855
a large system.

00:03:19.276 --> 00:03:21.157
So it does can feel like that.

00:03:21.198 --> 00:03:23.199
But the thing that I remind myself is

00:03:23.240 --> 00:03:23.479
like,

00:03:24.645 --> 00:03:26.848
The leadership team is not really there to

00:03:26.888 --> 00:03:28.550
advance practice physical therapy.

00:03:28.590 --> 00:03:31.133
They're not there to make sure all of

00:03:31.153 --> 00:03:32.055
their staff are happy.

00:03:32.134 --> 00:03:35.118
Like their goal and your goal, really,

00:03:35.158 --> 00:03:36.841
if you work in a large organization like

00:03:36.860 --> 00:03:37.002
that,

00:03:37.042 --> 00:03:38.644
is to advance the mission of the hospital.

00:03:39.724 --> 00:03:41.506
and so they're looking at ways to do

00:03:41.545 --> 00:03:43.086
that and i think if you can see

00:03:43.106 --> 00:03:45.968
that where that like what they're bringing

00:03:46.008 --> 00:03:47.729
to you how does that advance the mission

00:03:47.750 --> 00:03:49.730
of the hospital it may not advance your

00:03:49.770 --> 00:03:51.893
mission as a clinician so i think leading

00:03:51.913 --> 00:03:53.813
with curiosity and we talk about this a

00:03:53.854 --> 00:03:55.814
lot curiosity and not criticism because i

00:03:55.854 --> 00:03:58.317
think we also get defensive very quickly

00:03:59.037 --> 00:04:00.978
And our immediate response is to be like,

00:04:01.078 --> 00:04:01.478
what?

00:04:02.038 --> 00:04:02.758
Are you kidding?

00:04:03.199 --> 00:04:04.919
And I think like backing off from that

00:04:05.039 --> 00:04:06.980
and being curious and saying like, hey,

00:04:07.001 --> 00:04:08.401
can you help me understand the goal of

00:04:08.421 --> 00:04:09.141
this policy?

00:04:09.421 --> 00:04:10.862
How does this align with the hospital?

00:04:11.302 --> 00:04:13.144
And how does this align with our ability

00:04:13.183 --> 00:04:14.925
to provide patient care as physical

00:04:14.965 --> 00:04:15.525
therapists?

00:04:16.245 --> 00:04:17.406
Sounds like you're trying to quote Ted

00:04:17.425 --> 00:04:18.826
Lasso, which is be curious,

00:04:18.927 --> 00:04:19.966
not judgmental.

00:04:20.226 --> 00:04:22.487
I have never seen that show.

00:04:22.769 --> 00:04:22.968
You?

00:04:23.028 --> 00:04:25.069
Oh my God, really?

00:04:25.149 --> 00:04:26.449
From what I know about you,

00:04:26.550 --> 00:04:27.430
I figured you were a...

00:04:28.598 --> 00:04:30.300
Lasso head or whatever.

00:04:30.319 --> 00:04:30.360
No,

00:04:30.379 --> 00:04:32.822
I don't really watch a lot of TV.

00:04:32.942 --> 00:04:36.165
So I'm like pretty outdated on all of

00:04:36.245 --> 00:04:37.387
the shows.

00:04:37.648 --> 00:04:37.968
So,

00:04:38.869 --> 00:04:40.290
but I have seen that clip where he's

00:04:40.310 --> 00:04:42.973
like playing the darts and, you know,

00:04:43.033 --> 00:04:44.175
and we talked to our kids about that

00:04:44.214 --> 00:04:44.576
too,

00:04:44.675 --> 00:04:46.117
like with their interactions with other

00:04:46.156 --> 00:04:47.598
people, curiosity, not judgment.

00:04:47.658 --> 00:04:48.600
But I think it's,

00:04:48.740 --> 00:04:49.321
In this case,

00:04:49.420 --> 00:04:51.343
even curiosity and not criticism,

00:04:51.403 --> 00:04:53.225
because I think our default reaction is

00:04:53.266 --> 00:04:55.747
just to be immediately critical without

00:04:55.848 --> 00:04:57.711
really understanding all the work that

00:04:57.730 --> 00:04:59.372
goes into a leadership decision,

00:04:59.752 --> 00:05:01.716
particularly across an entire health

00:05:01.735 --> 00:05:05.040
system.

00:05:05.060 --> 00:05:06.802
The person who cuts you off in traffic.

00:05:07.449 --> 00:05:09.730
did not cut you off in traffic that

00:05:09.769 --> 00:05:13.052
person has no idea or is a jerk

00:05:13.112 --> 00:05:16.213
yeah it is not personal um the decision

00:05:16.254 --> 00:05:20.175
being made hopefully came from a place

00:05:20.276 --> 00:05:23.197
that they took into consideration lots of

00:05:23.237 --> 00:05:25.538
different options and this is the decision

00:05:26.278 --> 00:05:28.779
so first it sounds like you're saying take

00:05:28.800 --> 00:05:30.860
a breath this was not made

00:05:32.122 --> 00:05:35.043
for you right this was not personal and

00:05:36.444 --> 00:05:38.685
try to under that seek to understand and

00:05:38.745 --> 00:05:40.226
not to criticize

00:05:41.348 --> 00:05:42.689
And I think the next part is just

00:05:42.728 --> 00:05:44.930
like really, truly listening,

00:05:45.031 --> 00:05:45.930
understanding the goal,

00:05:45.990 --> 00:05:47.892
understanding why that decision was made

00:05:48.512 --> 00:05:50.314
and then understanding how is it really

00:05:50.334 --> 00:05:51.295
going to impact you?

00:05:51.574 --> 00:05:53.235
Is this actually like,

00:05:53.276 --> 00:05:54.637
it feels very impactful.

00:05:54.677 --> 00:05:55.637
It feels very heavy,

00:05:56.057 --> 00:05:58.160
but is it actually going to impact you

00:05:58.259 --> 00:05:59.901
and your ability to provide care?

00:06:00.261 --> 00:06:01.341
Does it change anything?

00:06:01.442 --> 00:06:02.101
And if it does,

00:06:02.141 --> 00:06:03.423
and if there's actually going to be a

00:06:03.483 --> 00:06:05.485
problem, once you've calmly assessed that,

00:06:05.504 --> 00:06:06.464
I think just saying,

00:06:06.526 --> 00:06:07.987
are you open to feedback about this

00:06:08.026 --> 00:06:08.547
process?

00:06:08.646 --> 00:06:09.848
I have clinical concerns.

00:06:10.326 --> 00:06:10.826
Okay,

00:06:10.848 --> 00:06:12.809
so that moves to like sort of my

00:06:13.048 --> 00:06:14.209
first suggestion,

00:06:14.269 --> 00:06:15.971
which would actually be lead with a

00:06:16.012 --> 00:06:18.134
question, large structured organizations,

00:06:18.454 --> 00:06:19.574
smaller organizations,

00:06:20.615 --> 00:06:22.497
that maybe you could ask this question

00:06:23.197 --> 00:06:24.959
before a decision is made,

00:06:25.319 --> 00:06:28.461
either upon hiring or later on in your

00:06:28.482 --> 00:06:29.603
career, which is, hey,

00:06:29.642 --> 00:06:31.264
if I have questions or concerns,

00:06:31.865 --> 00:06:34.447
what's the best way to find out more

00:06:34.466 --> 00:06:35.348
information about them?

00:06:35.867 --> 00:06:36.769
Do you want me to raise my hand

00:06:36.788 --> 00:06:37.250
in the meeting?

00:06:37.750 --> 00:06:38.571
Or is that not...

00:06:39.050 --> 00:06:40.711
because we've all i've at least i'm

00:06:40.752 --> 00:06:42.432
assuming you have been in that meeting and

00:06:42.512 --> 00:06:45.312
now it turns into like the town hall

00:06:45.372 --> 00:06:47.074
but the town hall outside of like

00:06:47.173 --> 00:06:51.454
frankenstein's yeah you know uh cottage

00:06:51.834 --> 00:06:54.315
which is pitchforks yes and once somebody

00:06:54.355 --> 00:06:58.377
breaks the seal right so like i'm all

00:06:58.416 --> 00:07:00.617
for asking questions early and often but

00:07:00.658 --> 00:07:02.658
the question also has to be so what

00:07:02.699 --> 00:07:04.658
someone taught me this ask yourself these

00:07:04.678 --> 00:07:06.540
three questions does this need to be said

00:07:07.764 --> 00:07:09.266
Does this need to be said by me?

00:07:09.987 --> 00:07:11.670
Does this need to be said by me

00:07:12.031 --> 00:07:12.610
right now?

00:07:13.461 --> 00:07:14.642
And if the answer is yes to all

00:07:14.682 --> 00:07:15.802
three, by all means.

00:07:16.302 --> 00:07:17.723
If the answer is no to any of

00:07:17.764 --> 00:07:21.084
those three, then either no, not you,

00:07:21.346 --> 00:07:22.326
or not you right now.

00:07:22.685 --> 00:07:23.867
And I would even go with a fourth,

00:07:24.067 --> 00:07:24.927
in what way?

00:07:25.146 --> 00:07:26.148
So like, does this need to be said?

00:07:26.487 --> 00:07:27.507
Does this need to be said by me?

00:07:27.928 --> 00:07:28.829
Does this need to be said by me

00:07:28.869 --> 00:07:29.249
right now?

00:07:29.588 --> 00:07:30.730
Does this need to be said by me

00:07:30.790 --> 00:07:31.850
right now this way?

00:07:32.310 --> 00:07:33.810
And typically in the middle of a staff

00:07:33.850 --> 00:07:36.711
meeting, when the change is announced,

00:07:37.353 --> 00:07:39.334
that ain't the place.

00:07:39.413 --> 00:07:39.754
Yeah.

00:07:39.874 --> 00:07:41.754
Unless they ask, unless they say,

00:07:42.641 --> 00:07:45.163
But again, I typically would default to,

00:07:45.702 --> 00:07:46.863
hey, what is the best way to...

00:07:47.324 --> 00:07:48.504
Can you talk me through this?

00:07:48.605 --> 00:07:49.064
Again,

00:07:49.084 --> 00:07:52.526
because managers are people and systems

00:07:52.985 --> 00:07:54.406
are just people connected.

00:07:55.007 --> 00:07:56.507
What's the best way for me to do

00:07:56.548 --> 00:07:56.827
this?

00:07:57.528 --> 00:07:58.689
And I feel like...

00:07:59.622 --> 00:08:02.023
that at least reduces the opportunity for

00:08:02.062 --> 00:08:04.142
someone to label you as difficult.

00:08:04.163 --> 00:08:05.322
It's like, I did the thing,

00:08:05.362 --> 00:08:07.843
you told me to come this way.

00:08:08.204 --> 00:08:09.903
I'm actually trying to engage.

00:08:09.963 --> 00:08:11.264
The funny part is I think the person

00:08:11.285 --> 00:08:11.625
who like,

00:08:12.564 --> 00:08:15.346
the type of person who wants to find

00:08:15.406 --> 00:08:16.386
out why are we doing this?

00:08:16.485 --> 00:08:17.266
What is this going to affect?

00:08:17.605 --> 00:08:18.867
It's typically super engaged.

00:08:18.906 --> 00:08:19.906
The person who's checked out is like,

00:08:19.947 --> 00:08:20.726
all right, whatever.

00:08:20.747 --> 00:08:21.987
Whatever, yeah.

00:08:22.007 --> 00:08:22.326
They're like,

00:08:22.367 --> 00:08:24.528
you could lose that person who is engaged.

00:08:25.187 --> 00:08:26.408
You could turn them into someone who's

00:08:26.447 --> 00:08:28.928
disenfranchised and that isn't the goal.

00:08:29.295 --> 00:08:30.576
But I think the best way to lose

00:08:30.596 --> 00:08:32.076
that person is to make them feel

00:08:32.136 --> 00:08:33.977
psychologically unsafe after they ask a

00:08:34.018 --> 00:08:34.418
question.

00:08:34.918 --> 00:08:35.477
Oh, totally.

00:08:35.499 --> 00:08:35.979
I've been that guy.

00:08:36.259 --> 00:08:37.519
Yes, yes.

00:08:37.659 --> 00:08:38.480
And they're like, hey,

00:08:38.500 --> 00:08:39.480
help me understand this.

00:08:39.541 --> 00:08:40.740
I have some concerns about this.

00:08:40.822 --> 00:08:42.162
And then there's a punitive response.

00:08:42.221 --> 00:08:43.923
I think that's a really good way to

00:08:43.942 --> 00:08:46.205
like completely lose that person.

00:08:46.445 --> 00:08:47.345
I've been that guy.

00:08:47.365 --> 00:08:48.625
Oh, I have an open door policy.

00:08:48.926 --> 00:08:50.386
And whenever you want to ask a question,

00:08:50.427 --> 00:08:51.027
then I do.

00:08:51.668 --> 00:08:52.687
And then, hey, listen,

00:08:52.768 --> 00:08:54.308
seventy percent of communication is

00:08:54.408 --> 00:08:56.009
nonverbal, said someone.

00:08:56.811 --> 00:08:57.431
I know when I'm

00:08:58.908 --> 00:09:00.549
Being told to ask a question,

00:09:00.590 --> 00:09:01.230
but when I do,

00:09:01.291 --> 00:09:03.734
I'm being told to stop asking questions.

00:09:05.135 --> 00:09:07.818
And when I do and I feel that,

00:09:08.240 --> 00:09:09.922
good luck getting me going again in a

00:09:10.682 --> 00:09:11.083
good way.

00:09:11.144 --> 00:09:12.065
Like, all right, I'm out.

00:09:12.977 --> 00:09:14.217
I think it's also helpful to understand,

00:09:14.298 --> 00:09:15.698
is that decision already final?

00:09:15.958 --> 00:09:16.219
Like,

00:09:17.158 --> 00:09:18.500
is it something we're considering or is

00:09:18.519 --> 00:09:19.379
this a done deal?

00:09:19.620 --> 00:09:21.360
And all I can do is ask clarifying

00:09:21.380 --> 00:09:21.780
questions.

00:09:22.280 --> 00:09:23.221
And when they ask,

00:09:23.360 --> 00:09:26.361
are you do you have any questions is

00:09:26.381 --> 00:09:28.503
a very different question or a different

00:09:28.543 --> 00:09:30.702
statement than do you have any feedback or

00:09:30.743 --> 00:09:31.303
comments?

00:09:31.823 --> 00:09:32.744
Those are different things.

00:09:33.163 --> 00:09:34.764
I did not understand this until I made

00:09:34.804 --> 00:09:36.765
my career change to physical therapy and

00:09:36.785 --> 00:09:38.466
started going to conferences and then

00:09:38.527 --> 00:09:40.427
realized that there was a whole meme

00:09:40.668 --> 00:09:42.009
behind what you just said,

00:09:42.909 --> 00:09:44.730
which is after someone says something

00:09:44.791 --> 00:09:45.991
clinically, non-clinically,

00:09:46.032 --> 00:09:46.951
gives a presentation,

00:09:47.011 --> 00:09:47.873
panel doesn't matter.

00:09:48.513 --> 00:09:49.474
And then they open it up to the

00:09:49.494 --> 00:09:51.134
floor and there's microphones around the

00:09:51.174 --> 00:09:51.434
room.

00:09:52.014 --> 00:09:53.755
And then the meme or the cliche is

00:09:53.816 --> 00:09:54.116
sort of,

00:09:55.037 --> 00:09:56.238
This is less of a question and more

00:09:56.258 --> 00:09:57.058
of a comment.

00:09:57.158 --> 00:09:58.980
Actually, it's all comment.

00:09:59.460 --> 00:10:00.201
And that's not what we...

00:10:00.260 --> 00:10:01.761
If you didn't ask for that,

00:10:03.964 --> 00:10:04.964
not the time, nor the place,

00:10:05.043 --> 00:10:09.206
nor the way.

00:10:09.287 --> 00:10:11.889
I think that's also a good way to

00:10:12.950 --> 00:10:13.750
put your foot in your mouth.

00:10:14.711 --> 00:10:15.812
I heard this the other day that made

00:10:15.831 --> 00:10:16.773
me feel very you.

00:10:17.432 --> 00:10:19.554
And I wrote it down, which was...

00:10:21.100 --> 00:10:23.101
When someone asks you a question or brings

00:10:23.121 --> 00:10:24.984
you a problem or is looking to interact,

00:10:25.504 --> 00:10:27.764
they're looking for one of three things.

00:10:28.405 --> 00:10:30.547
And your job is to figure out which

00:10:30.667 --> 00:10:33.528
one of those it is or even ask.

00:10:33.548 --> 00:10:34.789
That's a way of figuring something out.

00:10:35.330 --> 00:10:37.971
And then understanding if you can deliver

00:10:38.011 --> 00:10:38.211
that.

00:10:38.491 --> 00:10:39.732
And the three ways were,

00:10:40.232 --> 00:10:43.054
is this person need to be hugged, heard,

00:10:43.655 --> 00:10:44.316
or helped?

00:10:45.356 --> 00:10:47.317
So hugged would be more like,

00:10:48.475 --> 00:10:49.456
I'm going to commiserate with you.

00:10:49.557 --> 00:10:50.418
Like, that's not okay.

00:10:50.998 --> 00:10:52.178
I understand how this makes you feel.

00:10:52.259 --> 00:10:53.899
Like sometimes some people do not need

00:10:53.919 --> 00:10:54.360
that at all.

00:10:55.120 --> 00:10:56.522
Some people are seeking that,

00:10:56.562 --> 00:10:57.263
might not know it.

00:10:58.443 --> 00:10:59.245
Heard would be like,

00:10:59.465 --> 00:11:00.765
you just needed to vent it and you

00:11:00.785 --> 00:11:01.866
needed to vent it to a human.

00:11:02.067 --> 00:11:03.368
Yelling about it in your car is not

00:11:03.388 --> 00:11:03.707
enough.

00:11:03.888 --> 00:11:05.328
I agree on that way too sometimes.

00:11:06.169 --> 00:11:07.150
And then helped is,

00:11:07.370 --> 00:11:11.354
are they actually coming to you to have

00:11:11.394 --> 00:11:14.155
you help them fix it for you to

00:11:14.196 --> 00:11:14.636
fix it?

00:11:15.816 --> 00:11:18.096
What is the reason that they're bringing?

00:11:18.136 --> 00:11:20.738
So this feels like the person in

00:11:20.817 --> 00:11:22.538
management will assume that the management

00:11:22.578 --> 00:11:24.139
person is bringing that decision down.

00:11:24.980 --> 00:11:27.221
The management person should take this

00:11:27.260 --> 00:11:29.022
sort of triple H approach, which is,

00:11:29.142 --> 00:11:30.342
does this person just need to be hugged?

00:11:30.383 --> 00:11:32.182
Does this person need to be heard?

00:11:33.024 --> 00:11:34.744
Or does this person need to be helped?

00:11:34.784 --> 00:11:36.404
Are they looking for you to change it?

00:11:37.004 --> 00:11:40.226
And then your response comes off of that.

00:11:42.090 --> 00:11:43.269
Because sometimes just be heard.

00:11:43.309 --> 00:11:46.071
Like, okay, your concerns are heard.

00:11:46.150 --> 00:11:46.650
I see that.

00:11:47.030 --> 00:11:48.091
And then they're okay with that.

00:11:48.131 --> 00:11:48.631
Some people,

00:11:48.672 --> 00:11:49.812
that's all they're looking for.

00:11:50.292 --> 00:11:52.173
The hug is like, hey, man, I commiserate.

00:11:52.513 --> 00:11:54.332
Like, that's not, you know,

00:11:54.432 --> 00:11:57.053
and then I'm here because I disagree and

00:11:57.094 --> 00:11:58.053
I want you to change it.

00:11:58.614 --> 00:11:59.553
And I'm like, okay,

00:11:59.734 --> 00:12:01.235
but I can't because that's the decision

00:12:01.254 --> 00:12:02.034
that was made above me.

00:12:02.335 --> 00:12:03.115
Don't kill the messenger.

00:12:03.595 --> 00:12:03.815
But like,

00:12:03.835 --> 00:12:05.056
I thought I found that was interesting

00:12:05.096 --> 00:12:05.696
that someone said,

00:12:07.072 --> 00:12:07.975
Because this works in lots of

00:12:07.995 --> 00:12:08.475
relationships.

00:12:08.495 --> 00:12:09.739
Sometimes I just want to say stuff and

00:12:09.759 --> 00:12:10.200
people are like, well,

00:12:10.220 --> 00:12:10.721
how do we fix it?

00:12:10.740 --> 00:12:11.501
I'm like, I don't need you.

00:12:11.722 --> 00:12:12.062
I'm not like,

00:12:12.102 --> 00:12:12.725
that's not what I'm here for.

00:12:12.745 --> 00:12:13.446
I don't need you to fix it.

00:12:13.466 --> 00:12:14.067
I wanted to vent it.

00:12:14.107 --> 00:12:15.049
Now that I'm vented, I'm good.

00:12:16.390 --> 00:12:17.650
I think the other thing we forget is

00:12:17.931 --> 00:12:19.812
that I definitely have learned as being

00:12:20.192 --> 00:12:22.072
part of a board is that once the

00:12:22.113 --> 00:12:23.052
decision is made,

00:12:23.812 --> 00:12:25.514
you might not agree with that decision,

00:12:25.553 --> 00:12:27.053
but you still have to go out and

00:12:27.094 --> 00:12:28.975
present that and own that and carry that

00:12:29.034 --> 00:12:29.934
and implement it.

00:12:30.095 --> 00:12:32.855
So I think we forget about the humanity

00:12:32.895 --> 00:12:34.135
of the people in leadership, too.

00:12:34.235 --> 00:12:36.116
They may not even agree with the decision

00:12:36.136 --> 00:12:36.836
that's been made,

00:12:36.917 --> 00:12:38.697
but it's still their job to implement it.

00:12:39.136 --> 00:12:40.398
And I think we put them in the

00:12:40.437 --> 00:12:40.738
middle

00:12:42.875 --> 00:12:45.118
unfairly because obviously we're not going

00:12:45.138 --> 00:12:46.938
to go five levels above them and start

00:12:46.999 --> 00:12:48.200
screaming at that person.

00:12:48.240 --> 00:12:49.140
We would never, right.

00:12:49.541 --> 00:12:51.562
It's almost like when your kids are like

00:12:51.663 --> 00:12:53.203
meaner to their parents than they would be

00:12:53.244 --> 00:12:53.923
to their teachers.

00:12:54.024 --> 00:12:55.625
Cause there's like different layers there.

00:12:56.105 --> 00:12:57.567
And I think sometimes we just kind of

00:12:57.586 --> 00:13:01.049
go after our management team because we

00:13:01.090 --> 00:13:02.571
disagree, but they might too,

00:13:02.610 --> 00:13:03.912
but they're not allowed to like,

00:13:05.429 --> 00:13:05.910
show that.

00:13:06.150 --> 00:13:07.951
So I think just having grace with the

00:13:07.971 --> 00:13:09.553
people in leadership as well.

00:13:09.974 --> 00:13:10.835
It's not personal.

00:13:10.855 --> 00:13:12.917
They're not doing it at you or to

00:13:12.956 --> 00:13:15.438
you.

00:13:15.558 --> 00:13:15.960
I agree.

00:13:16.480 --> 00:13:16.980
I think people

00:13:19.149 --> 00:13:21.250
I think sometimes the most engaged people

00:13:21.390 --> 00:13:23.131
need to hear that because they're so

00:13:23.192 --> 00:13:26.352
engaged and they feel, I mean,

00:13:26.373 --> 00:13:27.474
I'm even using that word,

00:13:27.813 --> 00:13:29.794
they feel connected and they feel that a

00:13:29.815 --> 00:13:31.216
direction might not be the right way.

00:13:31.296 --> 00:13:32.196
And it's hard for,

00:13:32.515 --> 00:13:33.496
I'm saying this from experience,

00:13:34.517 --> 00:13:37.177
hard to disconnect the decision from your

00:13:37.217 --> 00:13:39.099
feeling because you're like, no,

00:13:39.418 --> 00:13:40.480
this is not the direction,

00:13:40.860 --> 00:13:42.620
but there's also ten other people around

00:13:42.660 --> 00:13:43.321
me on a board.

00:13:43.780 --> 00:13:46.361
And that's how decisions are made at large

00:13:46.381 --> 00:13:47.062
organizations.

00:13:47.643 --> 00:13:48.523
And if you don't like that,

00:13:48.602 --> 00:13:50.043
go start a one person organization.

00:13:50.464 --> 00:13:53.245
But then you lose the things that you

00:13:53.264 --> 00:13:54.585
get with a larger organization.

00:13:55.384 --> 00:13:55.804
Yeah.

00:13:55.825 --> 00:13:57.306
So I think what's the biggest what's the

00:13:57.326 --> 00:13:57.885
bigger picture?

00:13:57.946 --> 00:13:59.686
How does this align with the organization?

00:13:59.826 --> 00:14:01.106
Not necessarily my role in the

00:14:01.147 --> 00:14:01.667
organization,

00:14:01.706 --> 00:14:03.246
but how does this further the mission of

00:14:03.287 --> 00:14:04.107
the organization?

00:14:04.908 --> 00:14:06.288
Why was this decision made?

00:14:06.307 --> 00:14:07.509
This is impersonal.

00:14:08.469 --> 00:14:09.808
What is the best way for me to

00:14:09.828 --> 00:14:11.129
communicate about this?

00:14:11.730 --> 00:14:12.990
Is this actually impacts me?

00:14:13.250 --> 00:14:14.051
Is it worth it?

00:14:14.071 --> 00:14:15.150
And then how am I going to talk

00:14:15.171 --> 00:14:15.490
about it?

00:14:16.057 --> 00:14:16.918
Yeah.

00:14:16.957 --> 00:14:21.019
Is this as bad as I think it

00:14:21.039 --> 00:14:21.679
is going to be?

00:14:21.860 --> 00:14:23.721
Or is this even actually what I think

00:14:23.760 --> 00:14:24.380
this is?

00:14:25.581 --> 00:14:28.102
I heard a guy speaking the other day

00:14:28.143 --> 00:14:28.582
that said,

00:14:30.003 --> 00:14:33.644
one solution to misinformation is

00:14:34.384 --> 00:14:37.066
typically we share too much at one time.

00:14:37.725 --> 00:14:38.986
Just want to give everybody everything.

00:14:39.147 --> 00:14:40.187
And the guy really put it in great

00:14:40.226 --> 00:14:40.947
perspective.

00:14:41.006 --> 00:14:41.908
This was Donald Miller.

00:14:42.687 --> 00:14:43.028
He said,

00:14:43.067 --> 00:14:46.068
would you ever communicate your next seven

00:14:46.168 --> 00:14:47.730
chess moves all at once?

00:14:48.129 --> 00:14:50.110
It's like, well, no, it's like too much.

00:14:51.030 --> 00:14:52.010
Even Martin Luther King said,

00:14:52.150 --> 00:14:53.552
you don't need to see the whole staircase.

00:14:53.591 --> 00:14:55.371
You need to see the next step and

00:14:55.432 --> 00:14:56.493
know that you're going in the right

00:14:56.513 --> 00:14:56.932
direction.

00:14:57.232 --> 00:14:58.493
That's the direction you want to go in.

00:14:58.913 --> 00:15:01.094
So I think that happens a lot where

00:15:01.595 --> 00:15:03.095
here's the nine things that we're

00:15:03.134 --> 00:15:03.654
changing.

00:15:03.794 --> 00:15:06.196
And that person is trying to digest nine

00:15:06.275 --> 00:15:06.895
changes.

00:15:06.956 --> 00:15:07.236
Gosh,

00:15:07.256 --> 00:15:08.317
we don't like a little bit of change,

00:15:08.376 --> 00:15:09.177
never mind nine.

00:15:09.616 --> 00:15:11.337
And I find that in large organizations.

00:15:12.914 --> 00:15:14.695
Knowing that nine things by a large

00:15:14.735 --> 00:15:16.316
organization need to be decided,

00:15:17.035 --> 00:15:18.576
but does it need to be said?

00:15:18.937 --> 00:15:20.317
Does it need to be said by me?

00:15:20.336 --> 00:15:21.336
Does it need to be said by me

00:15:21.376 --> 00:15:21.777
right now?

00:15:22.096 --> 00:15:23.258
Does it need to be said by me

00:15:23.298 --> 00:15:24.498
right now in this way?

00:15:25.138 --> 00:15:27.599
And a lot of times it's TMI.

00:15:27.619 --> 00:15:29.019
It's too much information.

00:15:29.278 --> 00:15:30.438
Not because you want to keep people in

00:15:30.458 --> 00:15:30.940
the dark,

00:15:31.700 --> 00:15:34.120
but because they can't digest some of

00:15:34.139 --> 00:15:34.620
those things.

00:15:35.260 --> 00:15:36.280
It's hard.

00:15:36.341 --> 00:15:36.500
Yeah.

00:15:39.220 --> 00:15:40.140
She always says,

00:15:40.921 --> 00:15:42.121
think of it like toothpaste.

00:15:42.341 --> 00:15:42.922
If you,

00:15:43.022 --> 00:15:44.482
can you put the toothpaste back in the

00:15:44.523 --> 00:15:44.763
tube?

00:15:44.783 --> 00:15:45.442
You cannot.

00:15:45.602 --> 00:15:47.183
I've tried.

00:15:47.244 --> 00:15:49.465
Like imagine like squirting out an entire

00:15:49.504 --> 00:15:50.325
tube of toothpaste.

00:15:50.384 --> 00:15:51.625
Could you put that back in?

00:15:51.826 --> 00:15:53.427
And so do you like think about your

00:15:53.447 --> 00:15:54.947
words, how you think about toothpaste?

00:15:55.927 --> 00:15:56.888
Because if you can't get it back in

00:15:56.908 --> 00:15:57.268
the tube,

00:15:57.288 --> 00:15:59.269
so that seems to work well with like

00:15:59.308 --> 00:16:02.471
children as an analogy about how you

00:16:02.490 --> 00:16:03.091
should use your words.

00:16:04.522 --> 00:16:04.802
Yes.

00:16:05.662 --> 00:16:07.763
I think very good communicators are good

00:16:07.783 --> 00:16:08.482
at communicating.

00:16:08.523 --> 00:16:10.583
They're also pretty good at thinking about

00:16:10.764 --> 00:16:13.104
what the audience will think, feel,

00:16:13.203 --> 00:16:14.985
do when they hear a message.

00:16:15.524 --> 00:16:17.424
And before they send that message,

00:16:18.485 --> 00:16:20.265
they change the message to say,

00:16:20.505 --> 00:16:21.826
now taking into consideration.

00:16:22.086 --> 00:16:22.287
I mean,

00:16:22.326 --> 00:16:24.187
know your audience is so obvious and

00:16:24.226 --> 00:16:24.606
basic.

00:16:24.626 --> 00:16:25.488
Yeah.

00:16:27.307 --> 00:16:28.808
know your audience and how will they

00:16:28.869 --> 00:16:29.229
react?

00:16:29.389 --> 00:16:30.729
Does that change your message?

00:16:30.869 --> 00:16:31.870
Of course it should.

00:16:32.950 --> 00:16:34.730
You would say something one way to your

00:16:34.791 --> 00:16:37.451
children as you would communicate it

00:16:37.471 --> 00:16:39.293
differently to a coworker.

00:16:39.653 --> 00:16:40.932
Same thing, different audience,

00:16:40.952 --> 00:16:41.653
different message.

00:16:42.274 --> 00:16:43.033
But a lot of times,

00:16:44.982 --> 00:16:46.344
how we communicate where,

00:16:46.384 --> 00:16:49.587
when is sort of my preference.

00:16:49.748 --> 00:16:50.828
I'm going to send an email to all

00:16:50.869 --> 00:16:52.551
staff because I want to be as efficient

00:16:52.591 --> 00:16:53.172
as possible.

00:16:53.532 --> 00:16:54.472
And I'm going to give you the entire

00:16:54.513 --> 00:16:56.875
plan, copy paste and good luck with it.

00:16:57.556 --> 00:17:00.860
And that ain't how brains work.

00:17:01.000 --> 00:17:01.100
No.

00:17:02.741 --> 00:17:04.323
That's a giant game of telephone.

00:17:04.423 --> 00:17:05.304
We know how that game goes.

00:17:05.503 --> 00:17:06.644
Fun game to play in third grade.

00:17:08.226 --> 00:17:10.007
Good example.

00:17:10.228 --> 00:17:10.748
Funny game.

00:17:10.928 --> 00:17:13.089
But if you understand that that is a

00:17:13.130 --> 00:17:15.830
good example on how information spreads

00:17:15.931 --> 00:17:19.834
well or poorly, not great.

00:17:20.193 --> 00:17:20.714
Yeah.

00:17:20.734 --> 00:17:21.535
I think alignment,

00:17:21.836 --> 00:17:23.096
which we talked about last week.

00:17:23.676 --> 00:17:26.578
How can we all be aligned on something?

00:17:26.659 --> 00:17:29.800
What are the barriers to that?

00:17:32.182 --> 00:17:35.143
So at a large organization like a board

00:17:35.403 --> 00:17:36.544
or a hospital system,

00:17:37.484 --> 00:17:40.506
what would you tell the sender one thing

00:17:40.665 --> 00:17:44.387
to do different to improve communication?

00:17:44.488 --> 00:17:45.768
And what would you tell someone who's in

00:17:45.788 --> 00:17:49.890
the audience to improve receiving

00:17:50.550 --> 00:17:51.050
information?

00:17:52.065 --> 00:17:53.925
Realistically, if I was the sender,

00:17:54.026 --> 00:17:56.067
I would probably find my most difficult

00:17:56.126 --> 00:17:57.887
person, quote unquote difficult,

00:17:58.528 --> 00:18:00.449
my most engaged person that I know is

00:18:00.469 --> 00:18:01.808
going to be the first one out of

00:18:01.868 --> 00:18:03.509
the gate, like upset,

00:18:03.529 --> 00:18:05.790
complaining about it, has feedback.

00:18:06.211 --> 00:18:08.571
And I would practice it with them because

00:18:08.612 --> 00:18:09.913
then you're making them feel engaged.

00:18:09.932 --> 00:18:11.012
You're making them feel important.

00:18:11.913 --> 00:18:13.693
You're getting that knee jerk reaction

00:18:13.814 --> 00:18:15.714
immediately in a smaller setting.

00:18:16.234 --> 00:18:17.875
And then that can help you tailor your

00:18:17.915 --> 00:18:19.676
message when you go for the big group.

00:18:20.196 --> 00:18:21.797
So I think there's probably different

00:18:21.836 --> 00:18:22.877
categories of people.

00:18:22.897 --> 00:18:24.958
I would get your like people who are

00:18:25.117 --> 00:18:26.838
always going to push back your people who

00:18:26.979 --> 00:18:28.519
always kind of accept things without

00:18:28.558 --> 00:18:29.299
saying anything.

00:18:29.400 --> 00:18:30.940
And then your people who are sort of

00:18:31.359 --> 00:18:32.881
like somewhere in the middle that are

00:18:32.980 --> 00:18:34.881
always like sort of more positive,

00:18:34.941 --> 00:18:35.780
more optimistic,

00:18:35.800 --> 00:18:39.201
like your innovators and like,

00:18:39.742 --> 00:18:41.303
I would do a dry run with those

00:18:41.383 --> 00:18:42.863
different people and to say, Hey,

00:18:42.923 --> 00:18:43.983
I want to get your take on this.

00:18:44.403 --> 00:18:45.463
And then when you go to the bigger

00:18:45.503 --> 00:18:45.784
group,

00:18:45.824 --> 00:18:47.325
you have a little bit more sense and

00:18:47.365 --> 00:18:47.904
maybe you've,

00:18:49.087 --> 00:18:50.971
gotten some of that pushback and figured

00:18:50.991 --> 00:18:52.516
out how to address it so that it

00:18:52.556 --> 00:18:54.579
doesn't blow up and you don't have staff

00:18:54.599 --> 00:18:56.202
like complaining to each other and

00:18:56.242 --> 00:18:57.645
everybody kind of bringing morale down.

00:18:58.345 --> 00:19:00.846
So you mean actually take that person who

00:19:00.905 --> 00:19:02.247
might be the most, quote,

00:19:02.267 --> 00:19:04.047
difficult or labeled as difficult and

00:19:04.267 --> 00:19:06.508
actually bring them into sort of the team

00:19:06.548 --> 00:19:07.128
of messaging.

00:19:07.669 --> 00:19:08.368
That's cool.

00:19:08.469 --> 00:19:09.529
When you first were saying that,

00:19:09.609 --> 00:19:11.210
I thought you were saying picture that

00:19:11.269 --> 00:19:12.951
person and how would you communicate to

00:19:12.990 --> 00:19:13.310
them.

00:19:13.330 --> 00:19:14.352
No, I just run it.

00:19:14.372 --> 00:19:16.811
You're saying actually, hey, can we meet?

00:19:17.613 --> 00:19:18.752
Listen,

00:19:18.772 --> 00:19:20.253
there's a change coming and I've got to

00:19:20.273 --> 00:19:21.974
communicate it.

00:19:22.015 --> 00:19:22.815
Let's talk it through.

00:19:23.279 --> 00:19:25.039
And I value your input and I would

00:19:25.080 --> 00:19:27.480
like to have it before we do this

00:19:27.540 --> 00:19:29.261
presentation.

00:19:29.321 --> 00:19:30.721
And that person does want to be,

00:19:30.761 --> 00:19:32.261
as Oprah has always said, seen, heard,

00:19:32.281 --> 00:19:32.923
and understood.

00:19:32.942 --> 00:19:33.022
Yeah.

00:19:33.423 --> 00:19:34.923
And now, you know,

00:19:34.962 --> 00:19:36.263
it's a sneaky good way because if you

00:19:36.284 --> 00:19:39.564
can make that person,

00:19:39.624 --> 00:19:40.605
I don't want to say happy,

00:19:40.664 --> 00:19:42.765
but if you can craft a message where

00:19:42.785 --> 00:19:45.165
that person understands in a good way...

00:19:46.234 --> 00:19:47.955
Um, who can't you improve?

00:19:48.276 --> 00:19:48.536
When I've,

00:19:48.635 --> 00:19:50.296
when I've worked on technology adoption,

00:19:50.336 --> 00:19:50.636
I'm like,

00:19:50.696 --> 00:19:52.297
give me three really forward thinking

00:19:52.336 --> 00:19:53.778
people to test this out for two weeks

00:19:54.137 --> 00:19:55.478
and give me three people who you think

00:19:55.498 --> 00:19:56.138
are going to hate this.

00:19:56.159 --> 00:19:56.798
Yeah.

00:19:57.358 --> 00:19:58.118
And if I can, I mean,

00:19:58.219 --> 00:20:00.279
obviously like the layup is the people who

00:20:00.339 --> 00:20:02.080
are forward thinking and early adopters,

00:20:02.441 --> 00:20:02.961
but man,

00:20:02.980 --> 00:20:04.080
what would happen if I can make the

00:20:04.121 --> 00:20:05.981
people who are crusty and don't want to

00:20:06.001 --> 00:20:07.201
do things and hate change,

00:20:07.542 --> 00:20:09.383
I can make them consider it and actually

00:20:09.423 --> 00:20:10.143
almost like it.

00:20:10.943 --> 00:20:13.164
Is that a good, is that,

00:20:13.265 --> 00:20:14.484
is that a good bit of information?

00:20:16.646 --> 00:20:17.747
That's what I would do.

00:20:17.787 --> 00:20:19.667
And then how about from the other side?

00:20:20.208 --> 00:20:21.627
So that's what a sender would do.

00:20:21.667 --> 00:20:22.647
What would you tell people,

00:20:22.949 --> 00:20:23.909
which is more people?

00:20:24.088 --> 00:20:24.989
More people are going to be in the

00:20:25.068 --> 00:20:25.828
audience of hearing.

00:20:27.289 --> 00:20:28.190
Is there a step?

00:20:28.289 --> 00:20:30.009
Is there a thing or a couple of

00:20:30.049 --> 00:20:33.270
things which is like, first, exhale,

00:20:34.090 --> 00:20:36.352
reread the thing or redigest the thing,

00:20:36.432 --> 00:20:36.751
right?

00:20:36.892 --> 00:20:37.971
Or what else would you tell them to

00:20:37.991 --> 00:20:40.613
do so they can be better parts of

00:20:40.653 --> 00:20:41.192
the team?

00:20:42.752 --> 00:20:44.213
I think listen for the bigger picture.

00:20:45.483 --> 00:20:47.127
not just how this impacts you but how

00:20:47.167 --> 00:20:49.051
is this going to impact the system because

00:20:49.071 --> 00:20:52.198
that's that's realistically why they're

00:20:52.238 --> 00:20:53.621
doing it they're not doing it because of

00:20:53.681 --> 00:20:56.707
you and then write down your questions

00:20:57.733 --> 00:20:59.555
And then when you're feeling calmer,

00:20:59.994 --> 00:21:01.415
reread them later.

00:21:01.896 --> 00:21:03.837
And then maybe ask what the best way

00:21:03.857 --> 00:21:06.638
to ask those questions is because I'm not

00:21:06.659 --> 00:21:07.160
going to lie.

00:21:07.259 --> 00:21:09.320
I'm obviously that person that raises my

00:21:09.361 --> 00:21:10.561
hand and I'm like, well,

00:21:10.701 --> 00:21:11.321
I don't feel like,

00:21:11.342 --> 00:21:13.103
like I am that person, obviously.

00:21:13.584 --> 00:21:15.325
I'm that person with the whole profession.

00:21:15.424 --> 00:21:17.846
So I feel like I,

00:21:18.326 --> 00:21:19.686
I have learned that I need to take

00:21:19.707 --> 00:21:20.147
a minute.

00:21:20.307 --> 00:21:21.628
I need to look at the bigger picture

00:21:21.749 --> 00:21:22.969
and I need to take a breath and

00:21:23.650 --> 00:21:23.910
you know,

00:21:25.415 --> 00:21:27.096
You can be a positive hole poker,

00:21:27.797 --> 00:21:29.457
but you need to make sure you're coming

00:21:29.497 --> 00:21:30.018
correctly.

00:21:30.038 --> 00:21:31.137
Yeah.

00:21:31.178 --> 00:21:32.878
What is the goal of my question?

00:21:32.939 --> 00:21:33.959
And I think a lot of people do

00:21:33.999 --> 00:21:35.398
come correctly and they still are

00:21:35.440 --> 00:21:36.059
corrected.

00:21:36.279 --> 00:21:37.279
And I don't love that.

00:21:37.339 --> 00:21:39.441
But I think just I can only control

00:21:39.480 --> 00:21:40.240
what I can control,

00:21:40.260 --> 00:21:41.902
which is how I'm receiving the information

00:21:41.942 --> 00:21:44.001
and how I'm processing it and then how

00:21:44.103 --> 00:21:45.303
I engage in that process.

00:21:45.834 --> 00:21:45.993
Yeah.

00:21:46.875 --> 00:21:50.278
I like to remind people that systems are

00:21:50.538 --> 00:21:51.880
just a bunch of people connected.

00:21:52.721 --> 00:21:54.142
When someone's like, this place...

00:21:54.162 --> 00:21:56.904
I'm like, it's a bunch of people.

00:21:56.924 --> 00:21:57.865
I know there is a building,

00:21:58.326 --> 00:21:58.906
but it's people.

00:21:59.907 --> 00:22:02.871
And the larger the organization...

00:22:05.700 --> 00:22:08.121
the smaller that person is in terms of

00:22:08.141 --> 00:22:08.881
like a part.

00:22:08.921 --> 00:22:11.041
They're just a part of that, right?

00:22:11.061 --> 00:22:12.461
So a lot of times that person is

00:22:12.501 --> 00:22:13.261
just a messenger.

00:22:13.362 --> 00:22:15.242
This was handed to them or they were

00:22:15.262 --> 00:22:17.763
a small part of that decision being made.

00:22:18.243 --> 00:22:19.844
So try to separate, again,

00:22:19.864 --> 00:22:20.884
like going back to that analogy,

00:22:20.904 --> 00:22:21.845
like the guy who cut you off in

00:22:21.865 --> 00:22:25.165
traffic might be a gigantic inconsiderate

00:22:25.185 --> 00:22:26.486
jerk.

00:22:26.506 --> 00:22:27.205
That's a him problem.

00:22:28.106 --> 00:22:28.626
But it wasn't,

00:22:28.646 --> 00:22:30.948
he didn't cut you off because he saw

00:22:31.008 --> 00:22:31.887
you in traffic and

00:22:33.307 --> 00:22:34.288
It's not personal.

00:22:34.728 --> 00:22:35.489
So removing that.

00:22:36.269 --> 00:22:37.088
I can say that very,

00:22:37.128 --> 00:22:39.068
very with a straight face because I am

00:22:39.108 --> 00:22:41.549
guilty of that or have been and try

00:22:41.589 --> 00:22:45.869
to not be now.

00:22:45.950 --> 00:22:47.631
Yeah.

00:22:47.651 --> 00:22:49.770
So that's my best big organization advice.

00:22:50.290 --> 00:22:53.392
And I'm obviously a big advocate at

00:22:53.432 --> 00:22:55.672
legislative advocacy, facility advocacy,

00:22:55.751 --> 00:22:56.731
self-advocacy.

00:22:57.972 --> 00:22:58.913
But I think we need to be mindful

00:22:58.952 --> 00:22:59.553
of how we're doing it.

00:23:01.606 --> 00:23:02.028
Understood.

00:23:02.648 --> 00:23:02.848
Yeah.

00:23:04.070 --> 00:23:05.132
I've said this before.

00:23:05.332 --> 00:23:06.733
It was a parallel I saw when I

00:23:06.753 --> 00:23:07.756
was in PT school.

00:23:08.016 --> 00:23:09.758
And then going forward,

00:23:09.817 --> 00:23:11.540
I feel like the analogy or the comparison

00:23:11.580 --> 00:23:13.983
still holds up, which is frequency,

00:23:14.163 --> 00:23:16.287
intensity, time, type, volume,

00:23:16.428 --> 00:23:16.907
progression.

00:23:17.269 --> 00:23:18.490
Those are exercise principles.

00:23:19.723 --> 00:23:21.325
Those are also communication principles.

00:23:22.226 --> 00:23:24.406
Giving someone one really big,

00:23:24.527 --> 00:23:26.788
dense thing to understand.

00:23:26.989 --> 00:23:27.269
Like, well,

00:23:27.288 --> 00:23:28.849
I sent you the seventeen-page email.

00:23:28.890 --> 00:23:29.490
What's the problem?

00:23:29.510 --> 00:23:29.911
It's sent.

00:23:29.951 --> 00:23:30.491
It's in there.

00:23:31.412 --> 00:23:33.394
Per my email from last week,

00:23:34.875 --> 00:23:37.236
that's not how we absorb information.

00:23:37.256 --> 00:23:39.218
That's not how change is made, typically.

00:23:39.337 --> 00:23:39.998
It's just not.

00:23:41.839 --> 00:23:43.461
And the same as an exercise.

00:23:43.580 --> 00:23:46.123
I did one really hard deadlift.

00:23:46.303 --> 00:23:47.202
Where's the change?

00:23:48.644 --> 00:23:49.325
I'd rather you do

00:23:50.825 --> 00:23:52.026
Less difficult deadlifts,

00:23:52.066 --> 00:23:54.007
but more of them spread out over a

00:23:54.086 --> 00:23:54.807
time period.

00:23:55.667 --> 00:23:56.888
The parallels for me are very,

00:23:56.909 --> 00:23:57.589
very obvious.

00:23:58.390 --> 00:23:58.931
Yes.

00:23:58.971 --> 00:24:01.571
That when you see organizations or people

00:24:01.592 --> 00:24:02.752
who communicate well,

00:24:04.413 --> 00:24:06.455
the exercise is crafted for that patient.

00:24:06.675 --> 00:24:08.356
The message is crafted for that person or

00:24:08.376 --> 00:24:09.116
that audience.

00:24:09.297 --> 00:24:09.738
It's done.

00:24:09.857 --> 00:24:12.159
Frequency, intensity, time, type, volume,

00:24:12.339 --> 00:24:13.640
progression over time.

00:24:14.861 --> 00:24:17.282
Things like that land better.

00:24:20.167 --> 00:24:21.228
work better.

00:24:21.647 --> 00:24:22.249
And I always say,

00:24:22.769 --> 00:24:24.089
the job of communication is not to

00:24:24.150 --> 00:24:24.789
convince you.

00:24:25.589 --> 00:24:27.211
The job is to achieve understanding.

00:24:27.790 --> 00:24:29.592
So this is where you might have a

00:24:29.632 --> 00:24:31.012
thing that you're saying in a meeting or

00:24:31.032 --> 00:24:32.473
a board meeting or a staff meeting.

00:24:33.213 --> 00:24:34.454
And the thing might be bad.

00:24:34.575 --> 00:24:35.474
It might be.

00:24:35.855 --> 00:24:36.635
What are we doing here?

00:24:37.596 --> 00:24:39.916
My job as the sender is not to

00:24:39.977 --> 00:24:41.478
convince you that this is a good idea.

00:24:41.538 --> 00:24:43.019
The job is to make you understand it

00:24:43.278 --> 00:24:45.079
and what it is.

00:24:45.119 --> 00:24:46.980
I always move the goalpost closer to the

00:24:47.000 --> 00:24:47.300
kicker.

00:24:47.401 --> 00:24:48.902
The job is to achieve understanding.

00:24:50.125 --> 00:24:50.865
Yeah.

00:24:50.905 --> 00:24:51.467
That's it.

00:24:51.507 --> 00:24:53.406
How about smaller organizations?

00:24:53.547 --> 00:24:56.147
Let's say an organization of, you know,

00:24:56.448 --> 00:24:57.729
five to fifteen people,

00:24:57.769 --> 00:25:00.089
which is pretty small when you compare it

00:25:00.109 --> 00:25:01.130
to other organizations.

00:25:01.609 --> 00:25:02.650
Does it change at all?

00:25:05.230 --> 00:25:06.551
Yeah, I think it does,

00:25:06.612 --> 00:25:08.332
because you I feel like, you know,

00:25:08.412 --> 00:25:11.113
the people more intimately,

00:25:11.173 --> 00:25:13.173
like there's more of a relationship there.

00:25:14.654 --> 00:25:17.296
So I feel like.

00:25:17.496 --> 00:25:18.115
I don't know.

00:25:19.590 --> 00:25:21.771
Maybe it feels more personal.

00:25:21.791 --> 00:25:23.292
Maybe it feels more like it should be

00:25:23.313 --> 00:25:25.173
a team decision in a group that small.

00:25:26.013 --> 00:25:27.355
I feel like when you're that small,

00:25:27.414 --> 00:25:28.234
when you're smaller...

00:25:28.315 --> 00:25:30.056
So now I'm picturing the radio stations I

00:25:30.096 --> 00:25:30.536
worked for.

00:25:30.996 --> 00:25:33.237
Because we might have like five to ten

00:25:33.336 --> 00:25:35.317
on-air staff people and then some support

00:25:35.337 --> 00:25:35.637
people.

00:25:36.939 --> 00:25:40.160
I rarely called an everybody meeting.

00:25:40.840 --> 00:25:42.280
Because the things I needed to communicate

00:25:42.300 --> 00:25:44.682
were different for each person based on

00:25:44.761 --> 00:25:47.182
task and visibility and what they were

00:25:47.262 --> 00:25:47.743
working on.

00:25:48.644 --> 00:25:50.384
So with smaller organizations that I

00:25:50.424 --> 00:25:50.766
worked in,

00:25:51.086 --> 00:25:53.147
I tried to make them whenever possible

00:25:53.428 --> 00:25:55.009
one-on-one because I could.

00:25:55.148 --> 00:25:56.329
You can't do that in a hospital.

00:25:56.349 --> 00:25:57.990
You might not be able to do that

00:25:58.010 --> 00:25:59.732
in a large franchise of clinics.

00:25:59.752 --> 00:26:01.394
You can't do it.

00:26:03.035 --> 00:26:03.675
And keep in mind,

00:26:04.655 --> 00:26:06.278
I was a small organization as a radio

00:26:06.317 --> 00:26:09.259
station and asynchronous.

00:26:10.318 --> 00:26:11.740
The morning guy was not there at three

00:26:11.760 --> 00:26:12.701
o'clock in the afternoon.

00:26:13.422 --> 00:26:14.943
So me asking him to stay an extra

00:26:15.003 --> 00:26:18.587
six hours is mean and rude.

00:26:19.368 --> 00:26:22.731
So when I saw my agility as a

00:26:22.791 --> 00:26:24.034
small organization was,

00:26:24.094 --> 00:26:25.015
if I had something to say,

00:26:25.234 --> 00:26:27.156
I had no problem saying it eight different

00:26:27.196 --> 00:26:29.740
times in a day instead of one time

00:26:29.759 --> 00:26:30.339
to eight people.

00:26:31.201 --> 00:26:32.163
I also crafted,

00:26:32.202 --> 00:26:34.546
I changed the message based on the person

00:26:34.586 --> 00:26:35.186
I was talking to.

00:26:35.527 --> 00:26:35.788
Again,

00:26:36.248 --> 00:26:37.650
that's something you can't do in a giant

00:26:37.691 --> 00:26:38.511
hospital situation,

00:26:38.932 --> 00:26:40.575
but you can do if the organization is

00:26:40.615 --> 00:26:41.055
smaller.

00:26:41.516 --> 00:26:43.238
And I feel like my adoption,

00:26:43.759 --> 00:26:45.602
at least I gave myself a better chance.

00:26:46.516 --> 00:26:47.655
Well, and I think too,

00:26:47.675 --> 00:26:49.497
when you're in a small organization like

00:26:49.537 --> 00:26:50.396
that as well,

00:26:50.517 --> 00:26:52.497
when you're making those big decisions,

00:26:52.717 --> 00:26:54.698
you can actually sit and say,

00:26:54.738 --> 00:26:56.538
how is this going to impact Jimmy?

00:26:56.577 --> 00:26:57.999
How is this going to impact Rebecca?

00:26:58.058 --> 00:27:00.239
How is this going to impact Chuck?

00:27:00.679 --> 00:27:02.299
And you can like really think about that

00:27:02.359 --> 00:27:03.079
as opposed to like,

00:27:03.299 --> 00:27:05.279
how is this going to impact the twenty

00:27:05.319 --> 00:27:08.240
thousand people in this hospital system?

00:27:08.320 --> 00:27:08.901
Right.

00:27:09.500 --> 00:27:09.861
All right.

00:27:09.901 --> 00:27:11.701
Let's keep this short today because we're

00:27:11.721 --> 00:27:12.461
sort of winging this one.

00:27:12.642 --> 00:27:15.782
What would your parting shot be for this

00:27:15.823 --> 00:27:16.202
topic?

00:27:19.266 --> 00:27:20.067
It's not personal.

00:27:22.368 --> 00:27:23.630
It's really hard to remove that though.

00:27:24.111 --> 00:27:24.330
Yeah.

00:27:24.351 --> 00:27:26.333
Cause you're saying it to me and this

00:27:26.373 --> 00:27:28.494
will affect me in some small or big

00:27:28.535 --> 00:27:28.796
way.

00:27:29.076 --> 00:27:32.439
So it is hard to remove the,

00:27:32.558 --> 00:27:32.980
I mean, that's,

00:27:34.692 --> 00:27:34.873
Yeah.

00:27:35.294 --> 00:27:36.434
So I feel mine will be the same

00:27:36.474 --> 00:27:36.775
thing.

00:27:36.954 --> 00:27:38.016
It's not personal.

00:27:39.518 --> 00:27:40.878
I had a really good angle a second

00:27:40.898 --> 00:27:40.979
ago,

00:27:40.999 --> 00:27:42.760
or maybe I'm just having trouble like sort

00:27:42.780 --> 00:27:43.582
of communicating it,

00:27:43.622 --> 00:27:48.747
which is this wasn't decided for you.

00:27:49.007 --> 00:27:50.508
Yes.

00:27:50.528 --> 00:27:52.269
Very rarely have the things that I think

00:27:52.289 --> 00:27:53.290
are going to be a big, huge,

00:27:53.330 --> 00:27:55.653
scary deal that end the world actually end

00:27:55.673 --> 00:27:56.094
the world.

00:27:56.394 --> 00:27:57.035
Right.

00:27:57.075 --> 00:27:58.715
But I know in the moment when I'm

00:27:58.776 --> 00:27:59.237
hearing it,

00:27:59.916 --> 00:28:00.258
Gosh,

00:28:00.298 --> 00:28:02.578
it sure feels like that to my core.

00:28:03.980 --> 00:28:05.221
I remember there was a situation,

00:28:05.300 --> 00:28:06.682
the radio station I was working for and

00:28:06.741 --> 00:28:08.222
running had gotten purchased.

00:28:09.103 --> 00:28:10.763
And I'd never been involved in a radio

00:28:10.805 --> 00:28:12.645
station getting purchased before.

00:28:12.685 --> 00:28:13.866
To me, it was like, oh my God,

00:28:14.346 --> 00:28:15.827
the moving truck is going to come and

00:28:16.087 --> 00:28:16.708
what happens?

00:28:16.807 --> 00:28:19.750
And some people who had been there longer

00:28:19.769 --> 00:28:22.952
than me were like, just relax.

00:28:22.992 --> 00:28:24.693
They handed out name tags.

00:28:25.595 --> 00:28:28.715
Like legit, like magnetic, high, you know,

00:28:28.736 --> 00:28:31.516
twenty five dollar pop name tags with the

00:28:31.576 --> 00:28:33.457
new company logo and my name on it.

00:28:33.916 --> 00:28:35.076
And I was looking around going,

00:28:36.076 --> 00:28:38.738
I'm not wearing a name tag, dude.

00:28:38.778 --> 00:28:39.417
What's this?

00:28:39.557 --> 00:28:41.018
And my boss who had been there through

00:28:41.038 --> 00:28:43.098
changes was like none of it.

00:28:43.199 --> 00:28:43.298
Oh,

00:28:43.358 --> 00:28:47.359
and the other thing was vacation accrual

00:28:47.400 --> 00:28:48.500
time had been changed.

00:28:48.539 --> 00:28:50.799
So if you had like four weeks vacation,

00:28:50.839 --> 00:28:52.381
if you've been there for fifteen years,

00:28:52.800 --> 00:28:53.840
everybody was at two.

00:28:55.483 --> 00:28:58.306
And that made people freak out.

00:28:58.365 --> 00:29:00.106
And my boss was like, relax.

00:29:01.267 --> 00:29:02.347
He's like, I'll explain.

00:29:02.448 --> 00:29:04.689
And it turns out companies do that to

00:29:04.710 --> 00:29:06.691
get people who've been there a long time

00:29:06.971 --> 00:29:08.932
to retire early.

00:29:09.372 --> 00:29:11.353
He's like, now let me...

00:29:11.393 --> 00:29:12.453
So he did exactly that.

00:29:12.534 --> 00:29:13.815
They did an all-person meeting,

00:29:15.496 --> 00:29:17.076
communicated what the person above them

00:29:17.096 --> 00:29:18.096
had told them to communicate.

00:29:18.196 --> 00:29:19.518
These changes are going into order.

00:29:19.938 --> 00:29:21.219
And he pulled me aside and he's like,

00:29:21.259 --> 00:29:22.200
we're going to work around that.

00:29:23.000 --> 00:29:23.441
He's like, Jimmy,

00:29:23.480 --> 00:29:24.781
if you've got three weeks vacation,

00:29:24.801 --> 00:29:26.762
you've been here for eight years on the

00:29:26.803 --> 00:29:27.262
books,

00:29:28.163 --> 00:29:29.604
you'll be out for two weeks a year.

00:29:30.403 --> 00:29:33.266
And then we'll be here.

00:29:35.026 --> 00:29:36.146
So essentially he was saying,

00:29:36.666 --> 00:29:37.606
and he knew how to say it to

00:29:37.686 --> 00:29:39.307
me because he saw my eyes in the

00:29:39.327 --> 00:29:39.607
meeting.

00:29:39.647 --> 00:29:39.847
Like,

00:29:40.388 --> 00:29:42.309
I just earned my third week of vacation

00:29:42.369 --> 00:29:43.609
after working here for six years.

00:29:43.910 --> 00:29:44.490
He's like, relax.

00:29:44.509 --> 00:29:46.330
It's not going to be as bad as

00:29:46.351 --> 00:29:46.651
you think.

00:29:46.671 --> 00:29:49.512
I think that is a good ending.

00:29:49.593 --> 00:29:50.472
Like, relax.

00:29:50.532 --> 00:29:51.753
It's not going to be as bad as

00:29:51.794 --> 00:29:52.114
you think.

00:29:52.644 --> 00:29:52.904
Right.

00:29:53.365 --> 00:29:53.566
Yeah.

00:29:53.846 --> 00:29:55.346
Again, I've brought this up before.

00:29:55.386 --> 00:29:57.208
My dad's great advice too is always,

00:29:57.548 --> 00:29:58.708
is the building... My dad was a fireman.

00:29:58.847 --> 00:29:59.689
Is the building on fire?

00:29:59.828 --> 00:30:00.509
And I'm like, no.

00:30:00.608 --> 00:30:03.111
And he's like, then breathe for a second.

00:30:03.750 --> 00:30:04.432
We'll figure it out.

00:30:04.852 --> 00:30:06.292
As bad as it... Is anybody bleeding?

00:30:07.472 --> 00:30:08.374
Is the building on fire?

00:30:08.513 --> 00:30:09.954
If any of those answers are yes...

00:30:10.983 --> 00:30:11.984
We have a problem.

00:30:12.005 --> 00:30:13.186
The answer to any of those is no.

00:30:13.586 --> 00:30:13.866
Okay.

00:30:13.968 --> 00:30:15.169
I'm not saying what you're facing is not

00:30:15.189 --> 00:30:15.648
important,

00:30:15.829 --> 00:30:17.832
but we've got more time and we can

00:30:17.872 --> 00:30:18.492
figure it out.

00:30:18.712 --> 00:30:19.913
It's probably not as bad as you think.

00:30:20.275 --> 00:30:20.976
We're not on fire.

00:30:21.256 --> 00:30:21.957
We're not believing.

00:30:22.096 --> 00:30:22.837
Those are good things.

00:30:23.278 --> 00:30:24.058
Let's work it forward.

00:30:25.080 --> 00:30:25.641
Rebecca Griffith,

00:30:25.681 --> 00:30:26.642
what do you have coming up and what

00:30:26.662 --> 00:30:27.763
do you have coming up?

00:30:27.784 --> 00:30:28.684
What are you looking forward to?

00:30:29.434 --> 00:30:30.056
Oh, goodness.

00:30:30.936 --> 00:30:31.217
You know,

00:30:31.396 --> 00:30:32.979
I am presenting at a conference at the

00:30:33.019 --> 00:30:34.780
end of this month for emergency medicine

00:30:34.820 --> 00:30:36.241
and rural indigenous communities,

00:30:36.261 --> 00:30:37.182
which I'm really excited about.

00:30:37.202 --> 00:30:38.104
That's fun for you.

00:30:38.305 --> 00:30:40.767
I feel like that would be a step.

00:30:40.807 --> 00:30:41.907
Hill Day is what I wanted to mention.

00:30:41.928 --> 00:30:42.969
We'll be in person for Hill Day.

00:30:43.289 --> 00:30:44.570
Maybe we'll do some short form videos.

00:30:44.691 --> 00:30:45.392
That was my pitch.

00:30:45.432 --> 00:30:46.492
I want to get as many people who

00:30:46.553 --> 00:30:47.374
are going to Hill Day.

00:30:47.875 --> 00:30:50.576
If I can get thirty seconds with thirty

00:30:50.616 --> 00:30:50.837
of them.

00:30:51.876 --> 00:30:53.680
why you go i feel like that would

00:30:53.700 --> 00:30:55.843
get more people to go a year three

00:30:56.022 --> 00:30:58.287
five so maybe we'll we'll meet we'll do

00:30:58.346 --> 00:30:59.509
one of these live at hill day as

00:30:59.548 --> 00:31:03.394
we're walking the hill perfect rebecca

00:31:03.414 --> 00:31:06.579
griffith the eddpt thank you see ya

00:31:08.467 --> 00:31:09.548
That's it for this one,

00:31:09.807 --> 00:31:11.528
but we're just getting warmed up.

00:31:11.950 --> 00:31:13.851
Smash follow, send it to a friend,

00:31:14.070 --> 00:31:15.731
or crank up the next episode.

00:31:16.252 --> 00:31:17.153
Want to go deeper?

00:31:17.614 --> 00:31:21.676
Hit us at pgpinecast.com or find us on

00:31:21.717 --> 00:31:24.259
YouTube and socials at pgpinecast.

00:31:24.679 --> 00:31:26.961
And legally, none of this was advice.

00:31:27.040 --> 00:31:28.902
It's for entertainment purposes only.

00:31:30.442 --> 00:31:31.023
See, Keith?

00:31:31.223 --> 00:31:32.305
We read the script.

00:31:32.585 --> 00:31:33.265
Happy now?