Episode 238: Podherpes

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Podcasting 2.0 for October 17th, 2025, episode

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238, Podherpies.

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Oh, hello, everybody.

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Welcome once again to the official board meeting

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of Podcasting 2.0. This is where we

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discuss everything going on in podcasting, and there's

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always a lot happening.

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What's up?

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What's down?

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What's right?

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What's left?

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It's all right here.

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We are, in fact, the only boardroom that

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will never stream on Netflix.

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I'm Adam Curry here in the heart of

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Texas Hill Country and in Alabama, the man

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who will refactor the stats query for you

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at the drop of a hat.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, Mr. Dave Jones.

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And Barry comes cruising in the door right

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as we...

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Yeah, yeah, let me see.

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Did you make it in, Barry?

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Yeah, I guess.

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What happened?

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Where'd you go?

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Yeah, did your internet just drop out all

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of a sudden?

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No, no, I was saving the show, exporting

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the show on the Roadcaster 2, and then

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the Roadcaster just bricked.

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It just gave up.

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I almost mentioned this.

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Okay, so like when you told him to

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export that, I was like, well, you need

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to have the card.

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That might not be a great idea.

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You need to have...

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Do you have the MD card, the mini

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card?

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Really?

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Yeah.

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I never use the storage settings anymore because

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I've...

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Two times in the past, when I've tried

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to export my saved setting, one time it

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bricked a Roadcaster Duo.

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Like literally it never functioned again.

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Wow.

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You know, and the other time it like

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corrupted it so bad that I had to

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like do a factory reset.

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Well, the trick is, to the Roadcaster, is

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just don't update.

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And once it's working, just keep it that

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way.

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Although I did get on the beta, and

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that has been very precarious.

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Ooh, how'd you do that?

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Oh, it's the funniest thing.

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It's almost like what Paul did with tap

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on the pie icon seven times.

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Oh, yeah.

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Yeah.

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Did you accidentally discover this?

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No, no, no.

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Someone was telling...

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This is way back.

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When they first released this, their whole mix

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minus, it was completely wrong.

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Actually, they had an update, which just everything

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was wrong about it.

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There was no processing.

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And then I know within like six or

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seven hours, they released a beta fix for

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it and that worked.

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Because I was literally routing wires from outputs

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to inputs on the back of this thing,

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just to get it to function properly.

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Oh, like one of those big Moog synthesizers.

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Yes, exactly.

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You mean the way we used to do

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it before we had roadcasters?

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Yes, exactly.

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Yeah, exactly.

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With patch cables, the whole deal.

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The wall of ports.

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Yeah, I still have so much gear here.

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I've got compressor limiters.

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I've got Warsanis processing units, all 19-inch

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rack stuff.

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It's amazing.

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And Tina has not purged you?

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No, because I have one closet.

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It's known as the closet.

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Oh, you've been sequestered.

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Yes, and it's in the studio.

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So the studio is my domain.

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She comes in, gives disapproving looks, and then

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leaves.

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And then she came in the other day,

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OK, I'm getting shelves put up here so

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you can move this crap up there, and

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then you need to purge.

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I'm like, OK.

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You're like, nope.

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Yeah.

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Well, so we blew the surprise guest.

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I was going to keep him on mute

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and announce him properly.

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Ladies and gentlemen, welcome into the boardroom.

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The owner, CEO, founder, technical support of Podhome

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.fm and his brand new app.

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Say hello to Barry Luybrechts.

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I got the pronunciation right, didn't I?

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Yeah, that seldom happens yet, but obviously.

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Yes, or in Holland they say Barry Luybrechts.

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Yeah, that's better.

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But I would just call him Barry.

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Hey, buddy.

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How you doing, buddy?

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Buddy, buddy.

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Yeah, well, yeah.

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Is Dutch a hard R or is it

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a soft R language?

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Hard.

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Yeah, rolling hard, Barry, Barry, Barry.

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The reason I wanted you back in the

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boardroom, Barry, is because you released the Podhome

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app.

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And so it's a celebration and rare that

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people make a new app.

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And so it's like.

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I know why.

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Yeah, this is perfect.

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This is perfect because you get to explain

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your pain and tell the whole world how

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writing an RSS feed podcast app is way

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harder than you think it's supposed to be.

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Yeah, it sucks.

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It does.

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It does, yeah.

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Well, you know.

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Yeah, all the easy stuff is hard and

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all the hard stuff is even harder.

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Yes.

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What did you find the hardest thing?

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Now, you're hooking into the podcast index, or

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are you parsing feeds yourself to tell us?

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Tell me about the architecture.

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What's in your DNA?

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Well, it's kind of a combination.

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So when you discover and search for a

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podcast, I combine Apple Podcasts with a podcast

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API.

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And a little bit.

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I forgive you.

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Yeah, I don't.

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This is ludicrous.

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

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no, no.

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No, no, no, no, no, no, no, no,

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no, no.

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Yes, thank you for your forgiveness.

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Well, that's the kind of guys we are.

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The thing is, I want to offer an

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experience where you can find everything.

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So if it's not on the podcast index,

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which sometimes does happen, it might be in

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Apple.

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And if that doesn't happen, it might still

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be in my own index if somebody else

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added it, for instance, manually or something.

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So it's a combination of those things.

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Are you by any chance syncing up and

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getting stuff back into our index if you

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find it somewhere else?

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I mean, you're not doing that?

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No, I'm not doing that automatically.

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No, because I think you guys have quite

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enough shows in there and I don't want

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to, you know, put more crap in there

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if people just put crap in it, because

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that happens.

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I'm interested in what would show up.

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I mean, stuff is something that's not junk.

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But what would show up in Apple, but

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not in the index?

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Like brand new stuff, maybe?

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Yeah, maybe brand new stuff, stuff like that.

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Is it a lot?

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Is it a lot?

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Because you also sync it with it, right?

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No, we don't sync directly with them, but

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we get their sloppy seconds from all over

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the internet.

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There's like about five different routes that things

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come into it.

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We eventually end up with it.

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It usually takes, you know, if somebody just

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puts something in the Apple directory, it may

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take a few days to like worm its

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way.

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Don't most of the podcast guides, you know,

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podcasting 101s, don't they at this point all

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have us listed as you should probably add

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your feed to the podcast index?

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Yeah, I think we do.

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Yeah.

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So most of it is obviously in the

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podcast index.

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Stuff that's not in my app is stuff

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that's, for instance, exclusively on Spotify.

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Because obviously, you know, I cannot get to

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there, but that's totally fine.

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How much of that is there?

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Who still does that?

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Oh, a lot of people.

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Companies, for instance, like local companies that make

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their own little podcasts and they just put

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it on there and on YouTube maybe, and

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that's it.

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Oh, but it's not like- Right, but

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it's not like it's exclusive to Spotify.

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They've just only put it on Spotify.

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Yeah, exactly.

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Oh, okay.

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These are known as dummies.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, dark times.

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We live in dark times.

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Very dark times.

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I'm telling you, that's no good.

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But they still have a feed though, right?

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Yeah, yeah, definitely.

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But the most difficult thing is obviously, you

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know, dealing with feeds because feeds are just,

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you know, some companies, some hosting companies, their

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feeds just are so random.

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Sometimes they miss a title or a description

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or- No, no, say it's not-

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No, we've never noticed any of that.

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Say it's not so.

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Spam, you know, you see so much spam

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in Podping as well.

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It's just crazy.

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You know, the overwhelming amount of spam that

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is in Podping is these currently are these

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stupid audio book referral kind of things.

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God, they're every- I reached out to

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Ted over at Apple to let them know

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that there's, you know, that there's stuff like

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that in their index and they're looking into

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it.

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But I mean, like it's everywhere.

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It's like, I mean, it's like herpes.

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It's all over the place.

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And I don't- It just reeks of

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some kind of like one actor who's just

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found a niche and is just wearing it

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out.

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Now, how are they accessing the Podping?

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Don't you have to have some kind of

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key or some permission?

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Oh, PowerPress.

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Yeah, okay.

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Yeah, it's a WordPress site.

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Well, I say PowerPress, but it's either PowerPress

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or Seriously Simple, the Castos version.

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Okay, so what's happening is they're just doing

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WordPress blogs everywhere and they just say, oh,

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what's this?

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I'll install this.

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It'll be on podcast too.

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And then, but then they don't even know

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that Podping exists, I'm sure.

278
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:55,820
They don't even know how it works.

279
00:09:55,860 --> 00:09:57,320
It's just going out right now.

280
00:09:57,380 --> 00:09:57,560
Okay.

281
00:09:57,700 --> 00:09:59,100
Yeah, it's just- It's just- Because

282
00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:03,680
I've blocked- I mean, I've actually blocked

283
00:10:03,680 --> 00:10:10,060
it at the CloudFlare level at Podping.cloud

284
00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:12,180
because it got to be so bad.

285
00:10:12,920 --> 00:10:15,520
And, you know, like I've actually started blocking

286
00:10:15,520 --> 00:10:16,580
their IP address.

287
00:10:17,780 --> 00:10:20,440
So should we call this Podherpes?

288
00:10:21,400 --> 00:10:24,660
Yeah, exactly.

289
00:10:25,320 --> 00:10:26,400
Maybe a show title.

290
00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:28,400
I'm just tracking it just in case.

291
00:10:29,200 --> 00:10:29,800
It's okay, Barry.

292
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:30,520
So yeah, yeah.

293
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:35,600
So you get a lot from Apple, you

294
00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,380
get it from our API, and then you

295
00:10:38,380 --> 00:10:39,760
are- Podping as well, of course.

296
00:10:40,020 --> 00:10:40,700
Of course.

297
00:10:41,060 --> 00:10:41,400
From Podping.

298
00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:43,380
Tell everyone about your pod because you have

299
00:10:43,380 --> 00:10:45,820
Podping integrated into the app, which is pretty

300
00:10:45,820 --> 00:10:46,180
cool.

301
00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:49,740
Yeah, so the app has some, let's call

302
00:10:49,740 --> 00:10:53,080
it discovery features where you get to see

303
00:10:53,080 --> 00:10:53,900
random episodes.

304
00:10:54,400 --> 00:10:56,020
So that's one thing where you can just

305
00:10:56,020 --> 00:10:59,600
swipe through random episodes like on social media.

306
00:11:00,140 --> 00:11:02,160
But also there's this thing, and I've called

307
00:11:02,160 --> 00:11:03,620
it, I just need to look it up,

308
00:11:03,880 --> 00:11:04,820
episode pulse.

309
00:11:05,320 --> 00:11:06,740
And when you go there, you just see

310
00:11:06,740 --> 00:11:10,060
something that looks like Podping.tiles. Right, yeah.

311
00:11:10,060 --> 00:11:11,820
You see all these things just pop in,

312
00:11:11,980 --> 00:11:12,440
pop around.

313
00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:15,400
And this is all on my own infrastructure.

314
00:11:15,620 --> 00:11:16,480
I listen to Podping.

315
00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,980
I have a little .NET client with it

316
00:11:18,980 --> 00:11:21,120
because all this stuff is written in C

317
00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:24,420
sharp .NET. That's also on GitHub, by the

318
00:11:24,420 --> 00:11:24,600
way.

319
00:11:25,140 --> 00:11:27,960
Open source thing, which just listens to Podping.

320
00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:33,140
I made several iterations on it to make

321
00:11:33,140 --> 00:11:35,920
it more resilient because it's pretty difficult text

322
00:11:35,920 --> 00:11:36,560
to do right.

323
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:39,700
And then whenever a bunch of Podpings come

324
00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:41,960
in or whenever a Podping comes in, that

325
00:11:41,960 --> 00:11:44,560
could contain, I don't know, maybe five feeds

326
00:11:44,560 --> 00:11:46,260
that are updated, perhaps.

327
00:11:46,640 --> 00:11:49,020
And then I check all those feeds to

328
00:11:49,020 --> 00:11:51,160
see if something is actually updated.

329
00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,480
And if it didn't update already, like in

330
00:11:54,480 --> 00:11:54,840
the last...

331
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:58,480
Oh, you're doing some error, some checksum error

332
00:11:58,480 --> 00:11:59,120
checking there.

333
00:11:59,340 --> 00:12:00,660
Filtering, yeah, some filtering.

334
00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:01,120
That's good.

335
00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:03,780
And that's why you just see, you know,

336
00:12:03,820 --> 00:12:05,560
if you go to that episode pulse thing

337
00:12:05,560 --> 00:12:07,680
in the Podhome app, you just see the

338
00:12:07,680 --> 00:12:08,500
one thing, right?

339
00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,660
So you see one update from this show,

340
00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:13,620
one update from this show, where in Podpings

341
00:12:13,620 --> 00:12:14,560
.tiles...

342
00:12:14,560 --> 00:12:16,380
Oh yeah, it's nonstop.

343
00:12:16,660 --> 00:12:18,400
This one again, again, again.

344
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:19,460
Yeah, yeah.

345
00:12:19,580 --> 00:12:22,380
But also Podpings for this show is updated.

346
00:12:22,540 --> 00:12:24,080
Like, I don't know, we updated the show

347
00:12:24,080 --> 00:12:26,480
description or something about the show, but there's

348
00:12:26,480 --> 00:12:28,120
not actually a new item in it.

349
00:12:28,180 --> 00:12:30,280
So I do check that if there is

350
00:12:30,280 --> 00:12:31,320
actually a new item in it.

351
00:12:31,620 --> 00:12:34,540
Now, does your app also do video?

352
00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:37,260
No, it does not do video.

353
00:12:37,260 --> 00:12:38,240
Audio only.

354
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:39,480
Very nice.

355
00:12:40,240 --> 00:12:40,360
Yeah.

356
00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,420
Okay, so that's a deliberate thing.

357
00:12:45,820 --> 00:12:49,220
You don't have video on your roadmap at

358
00:12:49,220 --> 00:12:49,400
all?

359
00:12:49,460 --> 00:12:51,480
No, it's not on the roadmap at all.

360
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:54,540
So it's audio only and it's also podcasts

361
00:12:54,540 --> 00:12:54,980
only.

362
00:12:55,180 --> 00:12:57,140
So it's not, you can do music, but

363
00:12:57,140 --> 00:12:59,920
it doesn't have music specific features like where

364
00:12:59,920 --> 00:13:01,980
you can save music or where it says

365
00:13:01,980 --> 00:13:03,340
tracks instead of episodes.

366
00:13:03,340 --> 00:13:08,140
Interesting, because Podhome.fm is home to hosting

367
00:13:08,140 --> 00:13:11,320
of music and I believe audio books and

368
00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:12,220
I think video too.

369
00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:13,360
Don't you do video as well?

370
00:13:14,120 --> 00:13:15,120
No, we don't do video.

371
00:13:15,500 --> 00:13:18,460
But yeah, all sorts of mediums, indeed like

372
00:13:18,460 --> 00:13:20,140
audio, we have a bunch of people that

373
00:13:20,140 --> 00:13:21,140
host our audio there.

374
00:13:21,560 --> 00:13:22,880
A couple of audio books as well.

375
00:13:23,700 --> 00:13:26,860
But I think, well, and everybody can choose

376
00:13:26,860 --> 00:13:29,020
this for themselves, but I chose to make

377
00:13:29,020 --> 00:13:32,360
this app focused on just audio podcast listening.

378
00:13:32,600 --> 00:13:32,960
That's it.

379
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,300
I think there's also, there's a place for

380
00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,000
other stuff as well, like maybe a podcast

381
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,180
music app, for instance, a podcast video app,

382
00:13:42,240 --> 00:13:44,540
a podcast audible app, that would be cool,

383
00:13:44,600 --> 00:13:45,840
like for audio books.

384
00:13:45,940 --> 00:13:47,740
It's dedicated to that thing.

385
00:13:47,860 --> 00:13:48,900
Are you thinking?

386
00:13:49,260 --> 00:13:50,060
An everything app.

387
00:13:50,220 --> 00:13:51,620
Is that something you're thinking of?

388
00:13:51,700 --> 00:13:54,540
Doing separate apps for separate medium types?

389
00:13:55,580 --> 00:13:58,040
Yeah, I think music is a very good

390
00:13:58,040 --> 00:14:00,460
one because there's lots of stuff out there.

391
00:14:01,080 --> 00:14:02,680
Like audio books would also be cool, but

392
00:14:02,680 --> 00:14:03,940
I don't think there's a lot of them

393
00:14:03,940 --> 00:14:04,640
out there yet.

394
00:14:05,340 --> 00:14:06,920
So that would be quite empty.

395
00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:07,980
Audio books?

396
00:14:08,360 --> 00:14:12,640
I mean, there's quite a few.

397
00:14:13,040 --> 00:14:16,560
All of the, what is it?

398
00:14:16,560 --> 00:14:17,820
What's the name of the, what's the big

399
00:14:17,820 --> 00:14:18,000
one?

400
00:14:18,620 --> 00:14:19,580
Gutenberg Press.

401
00:14:20,180 --> 00:14:20,660
LibriVox.

402
00:14:20,960 --> 00:14:21,800
Oh, LibriVox.

403
00:14:23,280 --> 00:14:23,760
LibriVox.

404
00:14:24,060 --> 00:14:25,780
And then there, yeah.

405
00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:26,940
And they all have feeds.

406
00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:29,120
And I think if I'm not mistaken, they

407
00:14:29,120 --> 00:14:31,700
all are tagged with the audio book medium.

408
00:14:34,140 --> 00:14:34,700
LibriVox.

409
00:14:34,960 --> 00:14:38,080
Let me double check because we communicated with

410
00:14:38,080 --> 00:14:40,980
the developers over there.

411
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:45,200
And at the beginning, they didn't really understand

412
00:14:45,200 --> 00:14:48,080
much about, you know, who we were, what

413
00:14:48,080 --> 00:14:48,420
we're doing.

414
00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:51,080
But then later came back and then added

415
00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:51,480
some.

416
00:14:52,480 --> 00:14:53,360
Yeah, yeah.

417
00:14:53,380 --> 00:14:55,820
They're, I think they are tagged here.

418
00:14:56,200 --> 00:14:57,800
They declare the namespace.

419
00:14:58,680 --> 00:14:58,800
Nice.

420
00:14:59,040 --> 00:14:59,220
Cool.

421
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:02,460
Pretty much everybody declares the namespace these days.

422
00:15:02,460 --> 00:15:04,380
I don't think they know why.

423
00:15:04,540 --> 00:15:05,360
Oh, everyone has this.

424
00:15:05,580 --> 00:15:06,100
Okay, I'll put that.

425
00:15:06,260 --> 00:15:08,080
Oh, they're using alternate enclosure.

426
00:15:08,420 --> 00:15:09,240
Oh, sweet.

427
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:10,640
What is it?

428
00:15:10,640 --> 00:15:11,780
What are they using that for?

429
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:13,300
Oh, for different bandwidths.

430
00:15:13,420 --> 00:15:13,580
Okay.

431
00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:14,120
Nice.

432
00:15:14,760 --> 00:15:16,900
So they're using alternate enclosure for different bandwidths.

433
00:15:16,940 --> 00:15:19,960
I don't see them declaring the medium though.

434
00:15:20,080 --> 00:15:22,380
I mean, I'll write down, I'll send them

435
00:15:22,380 --> 00:15:23,960
a message, let them know to do that.

436
00:15:23,960 --> 00:15:26,160
But you should be able to find, there's

437
00:15:26,160 --> 00:15:26,740
LibriVox.

438
00:15:26,820 --> 00:15:28,580
And then there's one other big one on

439
00:15:28,580 --> 00:15:28,860
there.

440
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,060
There's quite a bit, man.

441
00:15:32,820 --> 00:15:33,160
Okay.

442
00:15:33,500 --> 00:15:35,020
Well, then maybe that's an option.

443
00:15:35,180 --> 00:15:36,200
Because that would be very cool.

444
00:15:36,400 --> 00:15:39,380
Like, you know, an open version of Audible.

445
00:15:40,380 --> 00:15:41,060
Right.

446
00:15:42,000 --> 00:15:45,060
I'm glad that you've done audio only because

447
00:15:45,060 --> 00:15:49,900
I came across something earlier this week that

448
00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:53,560
really made me very positive about the audio

449
00:15:53,560 --> 00:15:55,800
podcast format and medium.

450
00:15:56,640 --> 00:15:59,000
And it was actually, it was from my

451
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:03,800
dealer, from my info dealer, Spurlock, who always

452
00:16:03,800 --> 00:16:05,560
has the most thoughtful things he posts.

453
00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:07,620
Although some of the podcasts he listens to,

454
00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:10,160
I listen to, I fall asleep to this.

455
00:16:10,240 --> 00:16:11,040
I can't listen to this.

456
00:16:11,200 --> 00:16:12,900
Yeah, he likes boring stuff.

457
00:16:12,920 --> 00:16:13,760
Very boring.

458
00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,700
He should do an app, the boring podcast

459
00:16:16,700 --> 00:16:17,020
app.

460
00:16:18,760 --> 00:16:21,480
And it was called Everything is Television.

461
00:16:22,420 --> 00:16:23,640
It was a sub stack.

462
00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:25,360
And who is this written by?

463
00:16:25,460 --> 00:16:27,620
This is written by Derek Thompson.

464
00:16:28,460 --> 00:16:34,700
And the most interesting part is about a

465
00:16:34,700 --> 00:16:40,480
Federal Trade Commission meta filed in a legal

466
00:16:40,480 --> 00:16:42,300
brief on August 6th.

467
00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:45,300
And this is because there's a lot of,

468
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,300
a lot of stuff, a lot of legislation,

469
00:16:48,620 --> 00:16:50,840
age gating, all kinds of stuff is always

470
00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:51,540
in the works.

471
00:16:52,380 --> 00:16:55,340
And there's going to be specific things for

472
00:16:55,340 --> 00:16:56,660
social networks.

473
00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,460
And in this case, it was about them

474
00:17:01,460 --> 00:17:03,880
being a social media monopoly.

475
00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,500
And meta filed, and I don't get the

476
00:17:07,500 --> 00:17:09,200
exact wordage.

477
00:17:10,000 --> 00:17:14,940
They said, you cannot classify us, you cannot

478
00:17:14,940 --> 00:17:18,440
possibly classify us as a social media monopoly.

479
00:17:19,900 --> 00:17:21,980
And here's why.

480
00:17:22,880 --> 00:17:26,480
Quote, today, only a fraction of time spent

481
00:17:26,480 --> 00:17:30,420
on meta services, 7% on Instagram, 17

482
00:17:30,420 --> 00:17:34,920
% on Facebook, involves consuming content from online

483
00:17:34,920 --> 00:17:36,300
friends, end quote.

484
00:17:36,700 --> 00:17:39,780
A majority of time spent on both apps

485
00:17:39,780 --> 00:17:43,580
is watching videos, increasingly short form videos that

486
00:17:43,580 --> 00:17:46,120
are unconnected, i.e. not from a friend

487
00:17:46,120 --> 00:17:49,240
or a followed account, and recommended by AI

488
00:17:49,240 --> 00:17:53,380
-powered algorithms, meta developed as a direct competitive

489
00:17:53,380 --> 00:17:57,540
response to TikTok's rise, which stalled meta's growth.

490
00:17:58,880 --> 00:18:03,100
When I heard that, I'm like, okay, we've

491
00:18:03,100 --> 00:18:08,740
just become an entire nation, world, online connected

492
00:18:08,740 --> 00:18:11,840
world of blithering morons who are doom scrolling

493
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:14,160
short videos all day long.

494
00:18:15,160 --> 00:18:18,900
7% of Instagram people use Instagram to

495
00:18:18,900 --> 00:18:22,920
like follow and connect, only 17, Facebook, that

496
00:18:22,920 --> 00:18:25,240
was the, how are my kids doing?

497
00:18:25,420 --> 00:18:27,500
You know, I'm checking up on my classmates.

498
00:18:27,980 --> 00:18:29,340
Whose birthday is it today?

499
00:18:30,100 --> 00:18:32,040
That's what it was initially used for.

500
00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,440
And now everybody, and Xs, of course, I

501
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:35,900
don't have to even look at anything for

502
00:18:35,900 --> 00:18:37,600
them to know what they're doing, because you

503
00:18:37,600 --> 00:18:40,280
play one video, the minute it's over, goes

504
00:18:40,280 --> 00:18:41,800
to the next one, goes to the next

505
00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:42,060
one.

506
00:18:42,740 --> 00:18:44,080
Everything's video on X, yeah.

507
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:45,680
And that's the point.

508
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,620
So Derek Thompson writes, social media has evolved

509
00:18:49,620 --> 00:18:52,340
from text to photo to video to streams

510
00:18:52,340 --> 00:18:53,720
of text, photo and video.

511
00:18:53,880 --> 00:18:55,880
And finally, it seems to have reached a

512
00:18:55,880 --> 00:18:58,840
kind of settled end state in which TikTok

513
00:18:58,840 --> 00:19:00,700
and meta are trying to become the same

514
00:19:00,700 --> 00:19:01,020
thing.

515
00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:03,140
A screen showing hours and hours of video

516
00:19:03,140 --> 00:19:05,080
made by people we do not know.

517
00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:07,960
Social media has turned into television.

518
00:19:09,000 --> 00:19:11,300
And here's the beautiful part.

519
00:19:12,220 --> 00:19:14,720
Then he quotes amusing ourselves to death.

520
00:19:14,920 --> 00:19:16,220
Neil Postman, don't know if you've ever read

521
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:16,520
that book.

522
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:17,020
Oh yeah.

523
00:19:17,020 --> 00:19:20,080
Everybody should read Neil Postman's Amusing Ourselves to

524
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:20,380
Death.

525
00:19:20,900 --> 00:19:21,860
Here's what he wrote.

526
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,200
Each medium, like language itself, makes possible a

527
00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,640
unique mode of discourse by providing a new

528
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,780
orientation for thought, for expression, and for sensibility.

529
00:19:31,260 --> 00:19:32,940
Now, of course, when he wrote this, there

530
00:19:32,940 --> 00:19:35,000
was no TikTok, et cetera.

531
00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:38,180
Television speaks to us in a particular dialect.

532
00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,480
When everything turns into television, every form of

533
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:46,660
communication starts to adopt television's values, immediacy, emotion,

534
00:19:47,040 --> 00:19:48,140
spectacle, and brevity.

535
00:19:48,780 --> 00:19:50,620
So now in the glow of a local

536
00:19:50,620 --> 00:19:53,880
news program or an outraged news feed, the

537
00:19:53,880 --> 00:19:56,260
viewer bathes in a vat of their own

538
00:19:56,260 --> 00:19:56,780
cortisol.

539
00:19:57,440 --> 00:20:00,760
When everything is urgent, nothing is truly important.

540
00:20:01,240 --> 00:20:05,480
Politics becomes theater, science becomes storytelling, news becomes

541
00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,880
performance, and the result, a society that forgets

542
00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,760
how to think in paragraphs and learns instead

543
00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:13,040
to think in scenes.

544
00:20:13,680 --> 00:20:16,360
And when I read this, I got so

545
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:22,200
happy because audio podcast is truly a medium

546
00:20:22,200 --> 00:20:25,440
that you can just zone out to while

547
00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:29,520
you're walking, driving, walking the dog, doing the

548
00:20:29,520 --> 00:20:33,040
dishes, no distractions, because you should just have

549
00:20:33,040 --> 00:20:33,860
it in your earbuds.

550
00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:37,360
And I think we are entering an age

551
00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,420
where, okay, it may only be 7%

552
00:20:40,420 --> 00:20:42,960
or 10% of people, but at least

553
00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:45,140
we'll be the ones that aren't stupid.

554
00:20:48,420 --> 00:20:51,740
That book, Amusing Ourselves of Death, written in

555
00:20:51,740 --> 00:20:52,340
1985.

556
00:20:52,980 --> 00:20:53,280
Yes.

557
00:20:53,980 --> 00:20:56,700
That's how prescient and predictive that book was.

558
00:20:57,000 --> 00:20:58,260
Yeah, I think he did an update.

559
00:20:59,080 --> 00:21:00,800
Yeah, it's like in the early 2000s.

560
00:21:00,820 --> 00:21:02,060
Yeah, he did an update to it.

561
00:21:02,820 --> 00:21:07,160
So I really got happy about that.

562
00:21:07,240 --> 00:21:07,920
I'm like, yes.

563
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,860
And all this noise about, oh, video, video.

564
00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:13,500
No, no.

565
00:21:13,580 --> 00:21:15,740
The only thing I see from video podcast

566
00:21:16,340 --> 00:21:18,480
is that people chop it up and take

567
00:21:18,480 --> 00:21:21,520
clips and then people watch a minute of

568
00:21:21,520 --> 00:21:24,540
a podcast with some point that someone's making

569
00:21:24,540 --> 00:21:27,300
and they never actually watch the entire podcast.

570
00:21:29,740 --> 00:21:31,120
That's what it's become.

571
00:21:32,300 --> 00:21:35,120
Yeah, and audio podcast is completely different use

572
00:21:35,120 --> 00:21:35,420
case.

573
00:21:35,540 --> 00:21:36,520
There's nothing to do with that.

574
00:21:37,060 --> 00:21:38,900
So you listen to it whilst you're doing

575
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:39,620
something else.

576
00:21:39,820 --> 00:21:41,600
You're not actually watching a screen.

577
00:21:41,700 --> 00:21:44,960
It takes up all your concentration, all your

578
00:21:44,960 --> 00:21:45,380
attention.

579
00:21:45,940 --> 00:21:46,400
It's very different.

580
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,060
And that's one of the reasons why we

581
00:21:50,060 --> 00:21:54,760
declared video as a separate medium in the

582
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:55,860
medium tag.

583
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:59,060
And I know it caused a lot of

584
00:21:59,060 --> 00:22:02,620
confusion and a lot of like, this doesn't

585
00:22:02,620 --> 00:22:03,240
make any sense.

586
00:22:03,360 --> 00:22:05,820
Why not just have it as the alternate

587
00:22:05,820 --> 00:22:06,300
enclosure?

588
00:22:06,640 --> 00:22:07,700
And you can do that.

589
00:22:07,760 --> 00:22:09,460
And that's a fine use case for alternate

590
00:22:09,460 --> 00:22:10,820
enclosure is to be able to switch back

591
00:22:10,820 --> 00:22:12,100
and forth between video and audio.

592
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:12,780
That's fine.

593
00:22:13,480 --> 00:22:18,400
But the original thinking about declaring video as

594
00:22:18,400 --> 00:22:22,660
a separate medium was that video is a

595
00:22:22,660 --> 00:22:23,780
different experience.

596
00:22:24,060 --> 00:22:28,680
It's the difference between watching a video podcast

597
00:22:29,560 --> 00:22:32,880
and listening to an audio podcast is just

598
00:22:32,880 --> 00:22:35,780
as stark as the difference between listening to

599
00:22:35,780 --> 00:22:38,320
an audio book and a podcast.

600
00:22:39,020 --> 00:22:42,440
That or an audio book and music.

601
00:22:43,180 --> 00:22:47,560
They engage you in a completely different set

602
00:22:47,560 --> 00:22:51,360
of, you know, levels than that does.

603
00:22:51,500 --> 00:22:56,060
And so like it's meant to be, it's

604
00:22:56,060 --> 00:22:57,140
sort of like the chat, you know, the

605
00:22:57,140 --> 00:22:58,960
chat room is the same way, like chat

606
00:22:58,960 --> 00:22:59,320
rooms.

607
00:23:00,260 --> 00:23:02,540
You know, we sit here and talk, the

608
00:23:02,540 --> 00:23:07,500
board, like if you're engaging with a video,

609
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:14,240
you're completely, almost robbed of agency.

610
00:23:14,420 --> 00:23:17,020
Oh, wait, listen to this.

611
00:23:17,300 --> 00:23:19,400
Let me just interject a little data point

612
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:20,280
for you, Dave.

613
00:23:20,920 --> 00:23:21,220
All right.

614
00:23:21,420 --> 00:23:25,140
So this article goes on to say that

615
00:23:25,140 --> 00:23:28,580
watching videos, so if people are watching Netflix,

616
00:23:28,900 --> 00:23:32,080
specifically Netflix, they're doing other stuff.

617
00:23:32,400 --> 00:23:35,820
They're scrolling, they're doom scrolling on TikTok.

618
00:23:36,160 --> 00:23:38,020
So the attention is really nowhere.

619
00:23:38,320 --> 00:23:42,620
In fact, several screenwriters who work for Netflix

620
00:23:42,620 --> 00:23:46,320
told him, this author, that a common note

621
00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,540
from company executives is to have this character

622
00:23:49,540 --> 00:23:51,620
announce what they're doing so that viewers who

623
00:23:51,620 --> 00:23:53,700
have this program on in the background can

624
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:54,620
follow along.

625
00:23:55,540 --> 00:23:59,040
So literally lines like, we spent a day

626
00:23:59,040 --> 00:24:01,780
together, Lohan tells her lover James in Irish

627
00:24:01,780 --> 00:24:02,040
Wish.

628
00:24:02,180 --> 00:24:03,900
I admit it was a beautiful day, filled

629
00:24:03,900 --> 00:24:06,120
with dramatic vistas and romantic rain, but that

630
00:24:06,120 --> 00:24:07,700
doesn't give you the right to question my

631
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:08,400
life choices.

632
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:10,280
Tomorrow, I'm marrying Paul Kennedy.

633
00:24:11,260 --> 00:24:15,580
It's almost like the captions for the hearing

634
00:24:15,580 --> 00:24:17,760
impaired and where it says, where it says

635
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:19,760
creepy music playing in brackets.

636
00:24:20,140 --> 00:24:20,700
Exactly.

637
00:24:21,220 --> 00:24:23,420
So it's much worse than that.

638
00:24:23,460 --> 00:24:26,540
And I really, truly believe, I mean, reading

639
00:24:26,540 --> 00:24:28,480
is difficult for a lot of people that

640
00:24:28,480 --> 00:24:29,440
just don't have that.

641
00:24:29,780 --> 00:24:31,200
Like my daughter, she's 35.

642
00:24:31,620 --> 00:24:32,800
She's an avid reader.

643
00:24:32,800 --> 00:24:37,720
And I think she's kind of elder millennial.

644
00:24:39,020 --> 00:24:41,680
She just got in on the cusp, but

645
00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,640
a younger generation just in general doesn't read

646
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:45,240
that much.

647
00:24:45,460 --> 00:24:47,000
So audio books are great.

648
00:24:48,660 --> 00:24:51,520
But the attention span, when you're listening to

649
00:24:51,520 --> 00:24:53,800
a podcast, you just, if you do it

650
00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,160
properly, in which in my mind is earbuds

651
00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,260
in, that's it.

652
00:24:58,320 --> 00:24:58,800
One X.

653
00:24:59,000 --> 00:24:59,820
Yeah, one X.

654
00:24:59,900 --> 00:25:01,880
Oh yeah, well, that's a whole different conversation.

655
00:25:03,640 --> 00:25:05,480
Doing it at two X will kill you,

656
00:25:05,760 --> 00:25:06,940
but okay, do whatever you want.

657
00:25:06,940 --> 00:25:07,500
And all your friends.

658
00:25:07,660 --> 00:25:10,200
And first it'll rob you of your social

659
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:10,600
life.

660
00:25:10,760 --> 00:25:12,980
Then you'll be anxious and annoyed at your

661
00:25:12,980 --> 00:25:15,200
family members because they can't hurry up and

662
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:17,020
just get the words out that they need

663
00:25:17,020 --> 00:25:18,320
to say fast enough.

664
00:25:18,420 --> 00:25:20,180
And then you wind up with your kids

665
00:25:20,180 --> 00:25:21,340
hating you and you're divorced.

666
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:21,740
Okay.

667
00:25:22,220 --> 00:25:24,500
Then, and you're doom scrolling TikTok all day.

668
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:25,040
It's beautiful.

669
00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:30,980
Have you seen this experience where people like

670
00:25:30,980 --> 00:25:32,960
in your family or something like that, they'll,

671
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:35,240
it's the exact same thing, what you said,

672
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,920
they'll be watching Netflix or some streaming video.

673
00:25:38,520 --> 00:25:41,340
And then there's, and then they're scrolling Instagram.

674
00:25:41,520 --> 00:25:41,960
Yeah.

675
00:25:42,640 --> 00:25:45,320
And they're doing the, they're doing it exactly

676
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:46,440
what the way you described.

677
00:25:46,840 --> 00:25:49,760
And then at some point they just go,

678
00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:53,360
and just like toss the phone down on

679
00:25:53,360 --> 00:25:54,160
the, on the couch.

680
00:25:54,180 --> 00:25:54,380
Yeah.

681
00:25:54,720 --> 00:25:55,900
It's like they had a bad trip.

682
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:57,960
It's like they hit overload.

683
00:25:58,080 --> 00:25:58,460
Yes.

684
00:25:58,540 --> 00:26:00,700
They just crossed a threshold and they can't,

685
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,000
can't, can't handle anymore.

686
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:02,920
They can't handle it.

687
00:26:03,000 --> 00:26:04,240
And they just have to like throw the

688
00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,460
phone down and then they'll, then they'll engage

689
00:26:06,460 --> 00:26:07,100
with the video.

690
00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:09,640
It's, it's like the brain just got short

691
00:26:09,640 --> 00:26:10,140
circuited.

692
00:26:10,440 --> 00:26:12,920
Well, it has to, at a certain point,

693
00:26:12,980 --> 00:26:14,800
you, you just can't handle anymore.

694
00:26:14,900 --> 00:26:15,540
It's too much.

695
00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:17,740
It's a dopamine problem.

696
00:26:17,940 --> 00:26:20,160
It's, it's a constant dopamine hits.

697
00:26:20,640 --> 00:26:23,220
Dopamine and cortisol and all kinds of different

698
00:26:23,220 --> 00:26:24,000
brain chemicals.

699
00:26:24,260 --> 00:26:24,620
Absolutely.

700
00:26:25,100 --> 00:26:25,300
Yeah.

701
00:26:25,320 --> 00:26:26,480
Maybe that's what happens.

702
00:26:26,580 --> 00:26:29,520
Maybe you become, maybe, maybe the dopamine becomes

703
00:26:29,520 --> 00:26:33,380
so saturated in the, you know, in the

704
00:26:33,380 --> 00:26:35,440
neuron that you're just, that you're just like,

705
00:26:35,580 --> 00:26:37,240
okay, now it's just flat lines.

706
00:26:37,340 --> 00:26:38,640
And you're like, and you just can't stand

707
00:26:38,640 --> 00:26:38,960
anymore.

708
00:26:38,960 --> 00:26:40,660
And you just have to like truly just

709
00:26:40,660 --> 00:26:41,540
go to sleep.

710
00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:45,220
And remember, and remember when we started podcasting,

711
00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:48,540
there really wasn't, I mean, yeah, YouTube was

712
00:26:48,540 --> 00:26:50,120
there and it was a lot of cat

713
00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:50,960
videos.

714
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:52,340
It kind of, you know, it still had

715
00:26:52,340 --> 00:26:55,120
a long way to go before, before it

716
00:26:55,120 --> 00:26:56,880
really caught on and they, and they got

717
00:26:56,880 --> 00:26:58,720
their recommendations and all that stuff.

718
00:26:58,760 --> 00:26:59,000
Right.

719
00:26:59,640 --> 00:27:02,540
But people would listen on buses, on the

720
00:27:02,540 --> 00:27:05,540
bike, you know, everywhere they could, they'd just

721
00:27:05,540 --> 00:27:06,660
be listening to podcasts.

722
00:27:07,000 --> 00:27:08,940
And so I feel that a part of

723
00:27:08,940 --> 00:27:13,880
this incredible push towards video podcasting is mis,

724
00:27:13,980 --> 00:27:15,860
misdirected and misguided.

725
00:27:17,480 --> 00:27:19,940
Because I still believe that, and I think

726
00:27:19,940 --> 00:27:21,920
the numbers show that 70% of people

727
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,020
who quote unquote, watch a podcast are just

728
00:27:25,020 --> 00:27:25,900
listening to it.

729
00:27:26,540 --> 00:27:28,760
And they may even be scrolling something else

730
00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,260
at the same time for all I know.

731
00:27:32,180 --> 00:27:32,620
Yeah.

732
00:27:32,700 --> 00:27:35,360
And from the hosting side, most of my

733
00:27:35,360 --> 00:27:37,980
customers are not interested in hosting video as

734
00:27:37,980 --> 00:27:40,700
well because it's a completely different skillset to

735
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:41,920
make an actual video.

736
00:27:42,320 --> 00:27:42,460
Yeah.

737
00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:43,240
It's very difficult.

738
00:27:43,920 --> 00:27:46,820
And you, and you speak from, you speak

739
00:27:46,820 --> 00:27:49,020
from intimate knowledge because you make videos all

740
00:27:49,020 --> 00:27:50,100
the time, training videos.

741
00:27:50,100 --> 00:27:52,060
I mean, you know, you know how difficult

742
00:27:52,060 --> 00:27:54,140
it is to edit all that stuff and

743
00:27:54,140 --> 00:27:54,700
get it right.

744
00:27:55,320 --> 00:27:55,680
Yeah.

745
00:27:55,700 --> 00:27:56,840
And to keep it engaging.

746
00:27:56,840 --> 00:27:59,360
So like every three seconds or something, something

747
00:27:59,360 --> 00:28:01,040
else needs to happen on the screen that

748
00:28:01,040 --> 00:28:02,780
is actually an attention grabber.

749
00:28:02,860 --> 00:28:04,940
Otherwise people, you know, they doze off.

750
00:28:05,820 --> 00:28:05,920
Yeah.

751
00:28:06,220 --> 00:28:08,220
Do you still do the .NET training videos?

752
00:28:09,340 --> 00:28:11,800
Sometimes, like the last videos I did was

753
00:28:11,800 --> 00:28:14,600
in March this year or something about enterprise

754
00:28:14,600 --> 00:28:15,260
architecture.

755
00:28:15,780 --> 00:28:17,360
But sometimes I do, yeah.

756
00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,500
And also there I get to see the,

757
00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,380
the, the engagement, like when users drop off

758
00:28:23,380 --> 00:28:26,120
of the videos and like the last, I

759
00:28:26,120 --> 00:28:29,700
don't know, five, six years, people have completely

760
00:28:29,700 --> 00:28:31,080
lost their attention spans.

761
00:28:31,700 --> 00:28:33,580
So an hour video, and I try to

762
00:28:33,580 --> 00:28:34,120
keep it short.

763
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:35,960
So there are people out there that make

764
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,180
seven hour masterclasses on TypeScript or something.

765
00:28:40,880 --> 00:28:41,360
No.

766
00:28:43,040 --> 00:28:45,600
So if I make an hour video or

767
00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:48,420
something, I bet like 60% of the

768
00:28:48,420 --> 00:28:50,120
people cannot complete a full thing.

769
00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:51,960
And it's not because it's boring because I

770
00:28:51,960 --> 00:28:52,880
do a pretty good job.

771
00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,260
At least I think, but it's just attention

772
00:28:55,260 --> 00:28:55,640
span.

773
00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:56,880
It used to be much higher.

774
00:28:58,200 --> 00:29:00,480
So you're not, that was your main source

775
00:29:00,480 --> 00:29:01,320
of income now.

776
00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:04,740
So are you completely dependent upon Podhome and

777
00:29:04,740 --> 00:29:07,380
that's your main source of income?

778
00:29:07,620 --> 00:29:08,820
Is that your main gig now?

779
00:29:08,880 --> 00:29:09,940
Do you have other things happening?

780
00:29:11,160 --> 00:29:13,940
No, it's still, I still get what you

781
00:29:13,940 --> 00:29:15,980
call it, royalties from the courses that are

782
00:29:15,980 --> 00:29:16,480
out there.

783
00:29:16,780 --> 00:29:17,020
Nice.

784
00:29:17,160 --> 00:29:19,240
So those things are royalty based, which is

785
00:29:19,240 --> 00:29:19,540
good.

786
00:29:19,820 --> 00:29:21,700
That, you know, keeps me off the street.

787
00:29:21,700 --> 00:29:23,980
It's probably the best kind of royalties in

788
00:29:23,980 --> 00:29:24,660
all media.

789
00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:26,840
I mean, you don't get song royalties anymore.

790
00:29:26,980 --> 00:29:28,820
There's no royalties for anything you do on

791
00:29:28,820 --> 00:29:29,700
social media.

792
00:29:31,160 --> 00:29:34,480
There's, in fact, royalties for acting have completely

793
00:29:34,480 --> 00:29:36,280
gone away with the streamers.

794
00:29:36,940 --> 00:29:38,860
Yeah, you get paid up front and that's

795
00:29:38,860 --> 00:29:39,060
it.

796
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:39,900
That's amazing.

797
00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:44,380
Yeah, and with Podhome itself, the hosting side,

798
00:29:44,760 --> 00:29:46,880
I got a couple of hundred customers that's

799
00:29:46,880 --> 00:29:49,760
going well and it's making a small profit.

800
00:29:50,320 --> 00:29:50,820
That's good.

801
00:29:51,180 --> 00:29:53,500
And it grows, you know, slowly, but surely

802
00:29:53,500 --> 00:29:54,300
it still grows.

803
00:29:54,780 --> 00:29:54,920
Nice.

804
00:29:55,180 --> 00:29:55,420
So it's great.

805
00:29:56,280 --> 00:30:02,200
And so the app, why, like, what made

806
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,120
you jump in that hole?

807
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:09,300
Because, I mean, did you, was it to

808
00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:10,000
help Podhome?

809
00:30:10,180 --> 00:30:12,020
Was it because you could not find an

810
00:30:12,020 --> 00:30:14,200
app that suited all the ways you like

811
00:30:14,200 --> 00:30:14,600
listening?

812
00:30:15,380 --> 00:30:16,960
Everybody has a different itch.

813
00:30:17,220 --> 00:30:17,800
What was it?

814
00:30:18,420 --> 00:30:19,460
It's like three things.

815
00:30:19,460 --> 00:30:21,920
First of all, I didn't really find an

816
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,120
app that I thought, you know, this works

817
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:25,660
exactly like I want it to work.

818
00:30:25,660 --> 00:30:28,300
Number one reason software developers make software.

819
00:30:28,780 --> 00:30:30,140
Yeah, and so I thought, you know what?

820
00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:31,260
The best thing I can do with my

821
00:30:31,260 --> 00:30:32,840
life is just to pour a year into

822
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:33,780
building this thing.

823
00:30:34,580 --> 00:30:35,060
Wow.

824
00:30:35,280 --> 00:30:38,600
And the second thing is that now I

825
00:30:38,600 --> 00:30:40,220
have the whole ecosystem.

826
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,980
So if there are shows out there that

827
00:30:43,980 --> 00:30:46,720
get censored for whatever reason, I can still

828
00:30:46,720 --> 00:30:49,160
host them in Podhome and then listen to

829
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:50,480
it on my Podhome player.

830
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,060
And I have the whole circular thing.

831
00:30:52,740 --> 00:30:53,540
That's also good.

832
00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:56,400
And then the last one is indeed, yeah,

833
00:30:56,480 --> 00:30:58,220
to help Podhome as well, because it's kind

834
00:30:58,220 --> 00:30:59,720
of an advertisement thing as well.

835
00:30:59,920 --> 00:31:01,400
As in, you know, you get the name

836
00:31:01,400 --> 00:31:03,940
out there, people see it, people can use

837
00:31:03,940 --> 00:31:04,200
it.

838
00:31:04,320 --> 00:31:06,560
Well, this is- And get some customers

839
00:31:06,560 --> 00:31:06,900
as well.

840
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:08,740
Yeah, this is rather interesting, because as far

841
00:31:08,740 --> 00:31:10,000
as I know, I think you are, in

842
00:31:10,000 --> 00:31:12,920
fact, the first hosting company that has an

843
00:31:12,920 --> 00:31:13,320
app.

844
00:31:14,420 --> 00:31:16,520
I don't know of any- A listening

845
00:31:16,520 --> 00:31:16,760
app.

846
00:31:16,780 --> 00:31:18,060
A listening app, yes.

847
00:31:18,060 --> 00:31:19,800
A pure listening app.

848
00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:21,780
I think Podbean also has it.

849
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:23,660
That's right.

850
00:31:23,660 --> 00:31:24,900
I'm not sure about it, but yeah.

851
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:28,380
I think they did, and then they're-

852
00:31:28,380 --> 00:31:30,040
Well, Acast had an app too, but they

853
00:31:30,040 --> 00:31:30,680
dropped that.

854
00:31:31,740 --> 00:31:33,220
But I think you're right.

855
00:31:33,340 --> 00:31:35,860
I think Podbean had one, but if I'm

856
00:31:35,860 --> 00:31:38,220
not mistaken, I think their big focus was

857
00:31:38,220 --> 00:31:38,900
live.

858
00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:39,960
Yes.

859
00:31:39,960 --> 00:31:43,020
Because their live stuff only worked through the

860
00:31:43,020 --> 00:31:44,460
web and through that app.

861
00:31:44,580 --> 00:31:45,360
That's it, yeah.

862
00:31:45,960 --> 00:31:48,400
Now, and I find this interesting, because I

863
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,920
would say, right now, most hosting companies are

864
00:31:52,920 --> 00:31:58,740
expanding with subscription options, dynamically inserted advertising.

865
00:31:59,800 --> 00:32:02,780
Do you have anything in that realm, or

866
00:32:02,780 --> 00:32:05,420
are you just straight up hosting and let

867
00:32:05,420 --> 00:32:07,660
everybody else integrate with anything they want to?

868
00:32:08,940 --> 00:32:11,000
No, so the hosting part is already pretty

869
00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:12,520
advanced, at least I think so.

870
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,440
There is dynamic audio and dynamic text, which

871
00:32:15,440 --> 00:32:17,580
is not dynamic ad insertion, but that means

872
00:32:17,580 --> 00:32:20,880
you can upload, let's say, a two-minute

873
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:23,980
clip of your ads that you recorded or

874
00:32:23,980 --> 00:32:25,340
that you got from somewhere, and you can

875
00:32:25,340 --> 00:32:28,240
put that somewhere in your audio, or you

876
00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,020
can say at the beginning, at the end,

877
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:31,560
or just put it at, I don't know,

878
00:32:31,620 --> 00:32:34,560
minute 20 for this specific audio, and then

879
00:32:34,560 --> 00:32:35,500
it will paste that in there.

880
00:32:36,740 --> 00:32:38,820
That works well for most people.

881
00:32:39,260 --> 00:32:42,040
I don't do any ad integration with an

882
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,180
ad platform or anything like that.

883
00:32:45,280 --> 00:32:48,080
The funding tag we have, which is well

884
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:49,980
used by our customers.

885
00:32:50,540 --> 00:32:50,980
Great.

886
00:32:51,260 --> 00:32:53,840
Obviously, V4V as well, you know, dropped off

887
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:55,120
a little bit, but still lots of people

888
00:32:55,120 --> 00:32:56,720
are using it because we also have lots

889
00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,380
of very advanced people.

890
00:33:00,120 --> 00:33:01,100
We have an API.

891
00:33:01,500 --> 00:33:03,380
I think you talked about that last week

892
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:03,680
as well.

893
00:33:03,780 --> 00:33:05,140
We have an API that does all sorts

894
00:33:05,140 --> 00:33:05,520
of things.

895
00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:07,600
You can publish episodes.

896
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:08,800
You can get all your episodes.

897
00:33:08,960 --> 00:33:11,960
You can even get episodes, download statistics.

898
00:33:12,580 --> 00:33:15,520
There are people that created all dashboards with

899
00:33:15,520 --> 00:33:15,720
that.

900
00:33:16,540 --> 00:33:19,420
Here is the draft episodes, and if you

901
00:33:19,420 --> 00:33:21,140
send us, I don't know what it was,

902
00:33:21,220 --> 00:33:24,840
20,000 sets, we'll publish it earlier, and

903
00:33:24,840 --> 00:33:26,720
then it goes automatically out, which is super

904
00:33:26,720 --> 00:33:26,960
cool.

905
00:33:29,340 --> 00:33:31,340
There's lots of stuff like that, and then

906
00:33:31,340 --> 00:33:35,800
I'm thinking about building kind of like, yeah,

907
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:36,480
what's it called?

908
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,680
A Patreon-like thing, but then that integrates

909
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:41,180
with the hosting very tightly.

910
00:33:42,320 --> 00:33:44,740
It's kind of an augmentation and an easier

911
00:33:44,740 --> 00:33:47,680
setup for the funding tag for podcasters, where

912
00:33:47,680 --> 00:33:48,860
they can just say, you know what?

913
00:33:49,020 --> 00:33:51,120
I don't have a Patreon or anything like

914
00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:51,320
that.

915
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:52,820
Just set me up with this thing.

916
00:33:52,920 --> 00:33:54,440
Just click, click, and it should be done

917
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:56,760
just to make it easier for people.

918
00:33:57,700 --> 00:33:59,960
That thing can also be a tight integration

919
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:01,880
with the podcast player app, of course.

920
00:34:02,020 --> 00:34:03,060
What are you going to use under the

921
00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:03,560
hood for that?

922
00:34:03,640 --> 00:34:05,040
Any 402 stuff?

923
00:34:06,540 --> 00:34:07,659
No, well, maybe.

924
00:34:07,840 --> 00:34:08,320
I don't know.

925
00:34:09,580 --> 00:34:12,159
It's very difficult because I cannot be a

926
00:34:12,159 --> 00:34:13,560
money custodian.

927
00:34:13,739 --> 00:34:14,820
I cannot hold any money.

928
00:34:15,520 --> 00:34:16,719
You know, I live in the Netherlands.

929
00:34:16,860 --> 00:34:18,900
I would go to jail very quickly if

930
00:34:18,900 --> 00:34:19,880
I touch any money.

931
00:34:20,199 --> 00:34:20,600
It's okay.

932
00:34:20,659 --> 00:34:22,540
You can deal drugs anywhere you want.

933
00:34:22,620 --> 00:34:23,120
Oh, that's fine.

934
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:25,800
Oh my, please don't hold on to anybody's

935
00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:26,120
crypto.

936
00:34:26,420 --> 00:34:27,460
That is a problem.

937
00:34:28,300 --> 00:34:29,860
Well, it's super tight here.

938
00:34:30,020 --> 00:34:32,020
So crypto on and off ramps, for instance,

939
00:34:32,179 --> 00:34:33,820
and anything to do with money is super

940
00:34:33,820 --> 00:34:34,600
well regulated.

941
00:34:35,219 --> 00:34:36,179
Well, well regulated.

942
00:34:36,400 --> 00:34:37,900
It's super tightly regulated.

943
00:34:38,080 --> 00:34:38,580
Yeah, right.

944
00:34:39,159 --> 00:34:43,000
Which means I need a PSD2 or something

945
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,920
license to do anything with that.

946
00:34:45,020 --> 00:34:46,880
That means I need to hire five people

947
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,739
for life and pay a hundred thousand.

948
00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:54,100
And they get a 13th month vacation money.

949
00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:56,760
And yeah, everything possible.

950
00:34:57,000 --> 00:34:59,200
So what is the, because I've kind of

951
00:34:59,200 --> 00:35:00,120
lost track of it.

952
00:35:00,460 --> 00:35:04,200
I know that there was a real surge

953
00:35:04,200 --> 00:35:06,140
of podcasts going on for a while.

954
00:35:06,140 --> 00:35:08,640
And then I think the Danish company, Podmo,

955
00:35:08,820 --> 00:35:09,460
what is their name?

956
00:35:09,860 --> 00:35:09,960
Pod?

957
00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:11,120
Podimo.

958
00:35:11,880 --> 00:35:14,560
They came in, they bought a bunch, or

959
00:35:14,560 --> 00:35:17,040
they, I'm not sure exactly what they did.

960
00:35:17,160 --> 00:35:20,880
What would you say is the podcast scene

961
00:35:20,880 --> 00:35:22,480
in the Netherlands right now?

962
00:35:23,460 --> 00:35:29,980
In the Netherlands, there are some popular people

963
00:35:29,980 --> 00:35:31,480
with Podimo indeed.

964
00:35:31,820 --> 00:35:34,560
And they are behind a paywall basically.

965
00:35:34,620 --> 00:35:34,980
Paywall, yeah.

966
00:35:36,680 --> 00:35:37,500
Belgium as well.

967
00:35:37,740 --> 00:35:39,980
They do have that as well, but it's

968
00:35:39,980 --> 00:35:40,360
small.

969
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,560
And there's lots of small businesses that do

970
00:35:43,560 --> 00:35:44,220
podcasts.

971
00:35:45,820 --> 00:35:46,260
Yeah.

972
00:35:46,280 --> 00:35:49,180
And lots of hobbyists as well, but it's

973
00:35:49,180 --> 00:35:49,440
going.

974
00:35:49,720 --> 00:35:50,800
Lots of people have podcasts.

975
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:51,520
Pretty cool.

976
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:52,440
Right.

977
00:35:52,560 --> 00:35:53,440
All over Europe, really.

978
00:35:53,880 --> 00:35:56,140
But there's no, there's no like Joe Rogans

979
00:35:56,140 --> 00:35:57,200
or anything like that.

980
00:35:57,260 --> 00:35:58,540
No, no, no, no.

981
00:35:58,620 --> 00:36:00,700
You know us, the Europeans, we keep it

982
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:00,980
small.

983
00:36:03,240 --> 00:36:04,420
Keep it small.

984
00:36:04,420 --> 00:36:06,200
Just don't, be quiet.

985
00:36:06,380 --> 00:36:07,120
Don't be popular.

986
00:36:07,300 --> 00:36:07,800
Keep it small.

987
00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:09,320
Be yourself.

988
00:36:09,480 --> 00:36:10,080
Be normal.

989
00:36:10,440 --> 00:36:11,060
Do normal.

990
00:36:12,040 --> 00:36:12,180
Yeah.

991
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:13,460
That's like a- Do normal.

992
00:36:13,540 --> 00:36:14,280
Do normal.

993
00:36:14,620 --> 00:36:16,980
I saw James say that there's like 50

994
00:36:16,980 --> 00:36:19,480
million dollars in political advertising in Europe.

995
00:36:19,620 --> 00:36:21,160
And there's like 2 billion here.

996
00:36:21,880 --> 00:36:25,080
Yeah, that's, you know, like we do everything.

997
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,320
We overdo everything.

998
00:36:26,520 --> 00:36:26,740
Yes.

999
00:36:27,080 --> 00:36:27,300
Here.

1000
00:36:28,020 --> 00:36:30,040
But what's the, so what was it about,

1001
00:36:30,680 --> 00:36:34,780
at, what was it about you building your,

1002
00:36:35,060 --> 00:36:37,280
or excuse me, what itch were you trying

1003
00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,020
to scratch with your app?

1004
00:36:39,420 --> 00:36:42,320
You said you didn't really, you weren't satisfied

1005
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:44,120
with the way the other apps worked.

1006
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:45,980
What was the main thing?

1007
00:36:46,780 --> 00:36:48,540
The main thing, let's see, it's a combination

1008
00:36:48,540 --> 00:36:49,060
of things.

1009
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:51,920
So I have an iPhone, which means iOS.

1010
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:54,860
I like it, you know, shirts, spy phone,

1011
00:36:55,020 --> 00:36:55,560
whatever.

1012
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,160
They all are.

1013
00:36:58,160 --> 00:36:59,980
Well, not all, but you know, you can

1014
00:36:59,980 --> 00:37:01,600
get a, an unspied phone.

1015
00:37:02,420 --> 00:37:05,340
But I do like Apple podcast because it's

1016
00:37:05,340 --> 00:37:06,300
just, it's a pretty app.

1017
00:37:06,640 --> 00:37:07,240
It works well.

1018
00:37:07,400 --> 00:37:08,400
It has lots of nice features.

1019
00:37:08,540 --> 00:37:08,960
It's fast.

1020
00:37:09,140 --> 00:37:11,280
So I, I want something that is pretty,

1021
00:37:11,420 --> 00:37:14,520
but does everything else that does live chapters,

1022
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:15,280
transcripts.

1023
00:37:15,380 --> 00:37:17,460
Although Apple podcast also does, does that.

1024
00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:19,740
Has all the podcasts that I want in

1025
00:37:19,740 --> 00:37:20,020
there.

1026
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,960
And you know, most importantly, when I start

1027
00:37:23,960 --> 00:37:26,440
to listen to something, I want to have

1028
00:37:26,440 --> 00:37:28,400
one list where all that stuff is.

1029
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:31,000
Because in most podcast apps, I just lose

1030
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:31,320
stuff.

1031
00:37:31,640 --> 00:37:33,360
I just click on something, listen to something,

1032
00:37:33,460 --> 00:37:34,840
and I didn't queue it or add it

1033
00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:35,980
to playlist, blah, blah.

1034
00:37:36,100 --> 00:37:36,780
And then it's gone.

1035
00:37:37,520 --> 00:37:39,620
And you know, that confuses me.

1036
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:43,020
So now when I start playing something, it

1037
00:37:43,020 --> 00:37:45,140
goes immediately into the up next queue.

1038
00:37:45,400 --> 00:37:45,760
Basically.

1039
00:37:46,020 --> 00:37:47,640
I can also add that manually to the

1040
00:37:47,640 --> 00:37:50,020
up next queue, or when I download something,

1041
00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:51,420
it goes into the up next queue.

1042
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:52,980
And so everything's there.

1043
00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:53,460
It's nice.

1044
00:37:53,720 --> 00:37:53,840
Yeah.

1045
00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:56,200
That's similar to what we've done with Godcaster

1046
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:57,100
with our queue.

1047
00:37:57,340 --> 00:37:57,800
Same thing.

1048
00:37:57,800 --> 00:37:59,620
It's kind of inbox thing, but it's, you

1049
00:37:59,620 --> 00:38:01,640
know, people, it needs to be simple.

1050
00:38:02,040 --> 00:38:05,260
The posture of this app is, is you

1051
00:38:05,260 --> 00:38:05,840
don't have play.

1052
00:38:05,880 --> 00:38:08,380
You just have one, essentially one playlist, which

1053
00:38:08,380 --> 00:38:08,880
is the queue.

1054
00:38:09,240 --> 00:38:09,660
Yeah.

1055
00:38:09,920 --> 00:38:11,880
See, I'm kind of that guy too.

1056
00:38:12,100 --> 00:38:15,740
I don't like my Castamatic is still my

1057
00:38:15,740 --> 00:38:18,480
daily driver and it's, but I only use

1058
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,660
the one default playlist, which is unlistened.

1059
00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,480
And like, I just essentially use it the

1060
00:38:24,480 --> 00:38:26,280
same way that you're talking about, because I

1061
00:38:26,280 --> 00:38:28,880
can't, I've tried, I've, I've spent hours in

1062
00:38:28,880 --> 00:38:32,080
the past going in and curating my playlist

1063
00:38:32,080 --> 00:38:33,600
and segregating these things.

1064
00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:33,800
Okay.

1065
00:38:33,800 --> 00:38:34,900
These are the things I'm going to listen

1066
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:36,480
to every day.

1067
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:38,340
And you don't, you don't, you don't ever

1068
00:38:38,340 --> 00:38:38,880
use it.

1069
00:38:38,940 --> 00:38:39,940
You just don't.

1070
00:38:40,240 --> 00:38:42,760
I really like the, you know, I, I

1071
00:38:42,760 --> 00:38:45,220
have two, I use a podcast guru, but

1072
00:38:45,220 --> 00:38:47,280
increasingly I'm using the Godcaster app and I

1073
00:38:47,280 --> 00:38:49,960
have an advantage because I have a station

1074
00:38:49,960 --> 00:38:51,820
and I can add whatever I want into

1075
00:38:51,820 --> 00:38:52,100
it.

1076
00:38:52,100 --> 00:38:55,260
So I'm not necessarily limited to what other

1077
00:38:55,260 --> 00:38:56,600
stations have put out there.

1078
00:38:57,460 --> 00:38:58,260
That's your queue.

1079
00:38:59,060 --> 00:39:03,900
Well, so we have a programs tab and

1080
00:39:03,900 --> 00:39:05,880
it shows you the most recent of everything

1081
00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:06,700
that you're following.

1082
00:39:07,660 --> 00:39:09,960
And so in the morning I, I literally

1083
00:39:09,960 --> 00:39:11,820
will look at that and I'll go click,

1084
00:39:11,920 --> 00:39:12,840
click, click, click, click.

1085
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:14,840
I determined the order that I want to

1086
00:39:14,840 --> 00:39:15,380
hear them in.

1087
00:39:15,460 --> 00:39:16,700
And then I hit play and then it

1088
00:39:16,700 --> 00:39:17,340
just goes.

1089
00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:21,000
And so it's typically like a SRN news.

1090
00:39:21,480 --> 00:39:23,880
There's like a Fox news hourly report.

1091
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:25,660
So I get a, I get a real

1092
00:39:25,660 --> 00:39:29,920
quick update, uh, seven, seven, seven salty crayon.

1093
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:33,160
Um, and you know, then I'll, I'll move

1094
00:39:33,160 --> 00:39:35,540
into something maybe a little bit longer form

1095
00:39:35,540 --> 00:39:37,220
and I'll kind of queue it up that

1096
00:39:37,220 --> 00:39:37,560
way.

1097
00:39:37,960 --> 00:39:40,020
And if I get bored with something, I

1098
00:39:40,020 --> 00:39:41,280
just tap on the next one.

1099
00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:43,100
I can go back and pick up that

1100
00:39:43,100 --> 00:39:44,820
other one previously if I want to.

1101
00:39:44,860 --> 00:39:47,800
So I'm kind of curating my daily listening

1102
00:39:47,800 --> 00:39:49,860
based upon how I feel at that moment,

1103
00:39:49,860 --> 00:39:52,220
not based upon what was published most recently.

1104
00:39:53,340 --> 00:39:53,440
Yeah.

1105
00:39:53,680 --> 00:39:55,520
And I kind of have a similar thing

1106
00:39:55,520 --> 00:39:55,800
as well.

1107
00:39:55,880 --> 00:39:57,500
So on the home screen you have your

1108
00:39:57,500 --> 00:39:59,680
new episodes and that's just everything that is

1109
00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:01,260
new from all the feeds that you follow.

1110
00:40:01,620 --> 00:40:03,160
And then you can just say, all right,

1111
00:40:03,180 --> 00:40:03,540
this one.

1112
00:40:03,620 --> 00:40:03,860
Yes.

1113
00:40:03,920 --> 00:40:04,260
This one.

1114
00:40:04,320 --> 00:40:05,520
No, this one.

1115
00:40:05,580 --> 00:40:05,880
Yes.

1116
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:07,340
I don't want to listen to this.

1117
00:40:07,380 --> 00:40:09,000
And then, you know, it fills it up

1118
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:10,460
and up next and then you have your,

1119
00:40:10,460 --> 00:40:10,880
your queue.

1120
00:40:11,140 --> 00:40:11,360
Yeah.

1121
00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:12,600
Now that's cool.

1122
00:40:13,320 --> 00:40:15,400
So are you guys also in the app

1123
00:40:15,400 --> 00:40:15,840
stores now?

1124
00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:16,140
Right?

1125
00:40:16,280 --> 00:40:16,500
Yeah.

1126
00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:17,400
Yeah.

1127
00:40:18,040 --> 00:40:18,220
Yeah.

1128
00:40:18,220 --> 00:40:21,900
We just got our notification of age verification

1129
00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:22,560
APIs.

1130
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,780
Oh yeah.

1131
00:40:23,840 --> 00:40:24,460
I got that too.

1132
00:40:25,340 --> 00:40:26,440
It's coming people.

1133
00:40:26,620 --> 00:40:27,820
Digital ID is next.

1134
00:40:27,940 --> 00:40:28,820
It's on its way.

1135
00:40:29,740 --> 00:40:29,900
Yeah.

1136
00:40:29,960 --> 00:40:31,760
I mean, that's, yeah, that's active now.

1137
00:40:31,800 --> 00:40:35,780
Cause my, my daughter, we got her, she's

1138
00:40:35,780 --> 00:40:36,540
my youngest daughter.

1139
00:40:36,620 --> 00:40:37,180
She's 15.

1140
00:40:37,240 --> 00:40:42,260
And we got her a iPhone for the

1141
00:40:42,260 --> 00:40:42,980
birthday.

1142
00:40:43,280 --> 00:40:45,140
You got an iPhone because you don't love

1143
00:40:45,140 --> 00:40:46,540
your daughter is what you're saying.

1144
00:40:47,140 --> 00:40:48,560
Hate your child.

1145
00:40:49,160 --> 00:40:52,300
I got her the specific specifically.

1146
00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:55,940
I got her an iPhone mini 13 is

1147
00:40:55,940 --> 00:40:57,280
like a couple hundred bucks off Amazon.

1148
00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:00,360
And the reason I did the iPhone is

1149
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:02,340
purely because of the parental control.

1150
00:41:02,480 --> 00:41:02,620
Yeah.

1151
00:41:02,640 --> 00:41:03,880
You can spy on her.

1152
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:04,140
Yeah.

1153
00:41:04,340 --> 00:41:07,700
The parental controls on, on Android or any

1154
00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:10,120
is non-existent.

1155
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:10,880
It's laughable.

1156
00:41:11,580 --> 00:41:11,940
Yes.

1157
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:12,620
It's laughable.

1158
00:41:12,620 --> 00:41:15,020
So I can, I have the thing locked

1159
00:41:15,020 --> 00:41:19,100
down so tight and the, where, you know,

1160
00:41:19,120 --> 00:41:20,880
where she can't use it during school hours,

1161
00:41:20,880 --> 00:41:23,300
except these, these two apps or whatever.

1162
00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,620
Can you do location-based stuff?

1163
00:41:25,620 --> 00:41:27,380
Like you can, you can use this, but

1164
00:41:27,380 --> 00:41:28,060
only at home.

1165
00:41:29,140 --> 00:41:29,880
I don't know.

1166
00:41:29,940 --> 00:41:30,840
I haven't even looked at that.

1167
00:41:31,020 --> 00:41:32,440
I've used the time.

1168
00:41:32,500 --> 00:41:35,160
There's like time restrictions, you know, after you

1169
00:41:35,160 --> 00:41:36,860
can use, you can use it.

1170
00:41:36,980 --> 00:41:39,160
You cannot use these apps after this time

1171
00:41:39,160 --> 00:41:41,000
at night or during this time period during

1172
00:41:41,000 --> 00:41:41,400
the day.

1173
00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:43,240
What apps, what apps is she?

1174
00:41:43,320 --> 00:41:44,320
I'm very curious.

1175
00:41:44,440 --> 00:41:47,940
What apps is she allowed to use during

1176
00:41:47,940 --> 00:41:49,560
playtime?

1177
00:41:49,820 --> 00:41:51,920
During playtime, she's 15.

1178
00:41:54,060 --> 00:41:56,480
Well, she's, so I have a list, there's

1179
00:41:56,480 --> 00:41:58,040
a list of apps that she's allowed to

1180
00:41:58,040 --> 00:42:01,100
use all the time, which is like Spotify,

1181
00:42:02,360 --> 00:42:06,340
photos, you know, just the, the basic stuff

1182
00:42:06,340 --> 00:42:08,280
that the phone does, listening to music, taking

1183
00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:09,360
pictures, that kind of thing.

1184
00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,260
Anything like Safari or any, or that kind

1185
00:42:14,260 --> 00:42:17,020
of thing that, anything that accessing the internet.

1186
00:42:17,500 --> 00:42:19,580
So, but how about social networks?

1187
00:42:20,200 --> 00:42:22,540
Oh no, she's not doing, all apps have

1188
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:23,980
to be approved before they can install.

1189
00:42:24,120 --> 00:42:25,780
And she already knows I will never approve

1190
00:42:25,780 --> 00:42:26,600
any social media.

1191
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:27,900
So she doesn't have any of that.

1192
00:42:28,940 --> 00:42:31,040
But you don't even let her use Safari.

1193
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:32,200
That makes sense, I guess.

1194
00:42:32,360 --> 00:42:32,600
Yeah.

1195
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:34,260
Not during school hours, you know, like she

1196
00:42:34,260 --> 00:42:34,820
can't afterwards.

1197
00:42:35,060 --> 00:42:36,880
But she can use Safari for every, for

1198
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:37,980
all the social networks.

1199
00:42:37,980 --> 00:42:40,420
You can use it for Instagram, for X,

1200
00:42:40,520 --> 00:42:41,240
for Facebook.

1201
00:42:42,280 --> 00:42:44,840
Oh, you, it's impossible to use a browser

1202
00:42:44,840 --> 00:42:45,740
for that crap.

1203
00:42:45,920 --> 00:42:49,120
Oh, I use my browser exclusively for X.

1204
00:42:49,260 --> 00:42:50,980
I don't, that's the only social network I'm

1205
00:42:50,980 --> 00:42:51,440
still on.

1206
00:42:51,680 --> 00:42:53,600
I also, the same for Mastodon.

1207
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:54,920
I use the browser.

1208
00:42:55,620 --> 00:43:00,020
Anybody younger than 30 doesn't use X anyway.

1209
00:43:00,340 --> 00:43:02,540
So they, it's like it all, all that

1210
00:43:02,540 --> 00:43:03,600
matters is Instagram.

1211
00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,640
Instagram basically makes the browser experience, unless you

1212
00:43:07,640 --> 00:43:10,440
have an account, they make the browser experience

1213
00:43:10,440 --> 00:43:12,680
non-functional, basically.

1214
00:43:13,200 --> 00:43:15,140
I mean, I have an account and I

1215
00:43:15,140 --> 00:43:16,820
only use it to check on my daughter

1216
00:43:16,820 --> 00:43:18,360
from time to time, see if she's still

1217
00:43:18,360 --> 00:43:18,740
breathing.

1218
00:43:19,420 --> 00:43:19,600
Yeah.

1219
00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:20,600
That's if you have an account.

1220
00:43:20,880 --> 00:43:21,040
Yeah.

1221
00:43:21,160 --> 00:43:24,620
If you don't have an account, they intentionally

1222
00:43:24,620 --> 00:43:26,540
make it so broken that you can't use

1223
00:43:26,540 --> 00:43:26,640
it.

1224
00:43:26,640 --> 00:43:27,260
That's like Facebook.

1225
00:43:27,400 --> 00:43:29,280
People send me Facebook links all the time

1226
00:43:29,280 --> 00:43:30,900
and it'd be like big splash screen.

1227
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:33,040
You may be, you'll be able to see

1228
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,600
the video or half of the post, but

1229
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:36,060
that's it.

1230
00:43:36,060 --> 00:43:37,900
Then Facebook goes, no, you got to get

1231
00:43:37,900 --> 00:43:39,100
the app and log in.

1232
00:43:39,180 --> 00:43:39,820
I won't do it.

1233
00:43:40,640 --> 00:43:40,860
Yep.

1234
00:43:40,980 --> 00:43:43,440
And so when it popped up the other

1235
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:45,880
day, it was yesterday actually.

1236
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:50,040
She said, she was like, for some reason,

1237
00:43:50,280 --> 00:43:52,880
my Spotify just doesn't work.

1238
00:43:53,560 --> 00:43:55,380
And it's because I had the parental restrictions

1239
00:43:55,380 --> 00:43:59,740
set to not allow explicit content.

1240
00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:00,480
Yeah.

1241
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,840
And that was pretty much everything.

1242
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:03,360
And so, yeah.

1243
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,560
And it was first, I think that's part

1244
00:44:05,560 --> 00:44:08,020
of like tied into the age verification, because

1245
00:44:08,020 --> 00:44:09,080
it's always worked before.

1246
00:44:09,360 --> 00:44:11,380
But now that the age restriction stuff has

1247
00:44:11,380 --> 00:44:14,540
come into play, like it knows her age.

1248
00:44:14,920 --> 00:44:17,520
And so then it, it just stopped it.

1249
00:44:18,100 --> 00:44:18,900
And so I had to go in there

1250
00:44:18,900 --> 00:44:21,960
and like, do like, do like allow this

1251
00:44:21,960 --> 00:44:23,540
stuff, but it was, it was basing it

1252
00:44:23,540 --> 00:44:28,140
on explicit content in audio books.

1253
00:44:28,800 --> 00:44:29,240
Huh.

1254
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:31,940
And so it's somehow that as the Spotify

1255
00:44:31,940 --> 00:44:34,580
manifest has something going on there, where it's

1256
00:44:34,580 --> 00:44:35,760
triggering that.

1257
00:44:36,100 --> 00:44:37,220
But I thought that was interesting because I've

1258
00:44:37,220 --> 00:44:39,740
never seen that before until, and just started

1259
00:44:39,740 --> 00:44:41,040
happening a few days ago.

1260
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,360
And I think that's when all that stuff

1261
00:44:42,360 --> 00:44:43,080
went into play.

1262
00:44:43,260 --> 00:44:44,740
You're cranking, they're cranking it up now.

1263
00:44:44,860 --> 00:44:45,600
That'll be interesting.

1264
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:47,740
They don't want the lawsuits.

1265
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:49,820
Yeah.

1266
00:44:49,900 --> 00:44:50,180
Yes.

1267
00:44:50,460 --> 00:44:50,960
I guess.

1268
00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:52,260
Yeah.

1269
00:44:52,360 --> 00:44:54,060
That's what, what are you, what are you

1270
00:44:54,060 --> 00:44:55,700
building this with?

1271
00:44:55,740 --> 00:44:57,820
Or is this.net under the hood?

1272
00:44:57,820 --> 00:44:58,080
Yeah.

1273
00:44:58,780 --> 00:45:01,300
So this is.net Maui, which is a

1274
00:45:01,300 --> 00:45:05,260
cross-platform framework based on a C-sharp.

1275
00:45:05,400 --> 00:45:08,540
And by default, you use XAML with that,

1276
00:45:08,680 --> 00:45:12,300
which is a, like an XML format to

1277
00:45:12,300 --> 00:45:13,220
style things.

1278
00:45:13,460 --> 00:45:14,880
I don't know how that works.

1279
00:45:15,180 --> 00:45:17,800
So I use it with a Blazor hybrid.

1280
00:45:18,060 --> 00:45:19,940
That's also a thing you can host there

1281
00:45:19,940 --> 00:45:20,820
within a web view.

1282
00:45:20,980 --> 00:45:23,040
And basically everything you see in the app

1283
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,780
is HTML rendered HTML, CSS, JavaScript, which is

1284
00:45:26,780 --> 00:45:28,460
lovely because I know how that works and

1285
00:45:28,460 --> 00:45:30,080
I know how to make a UI with

1286
00:45:30,080 --> 00:45:30,240
that.

1287
00:45:31,520 --> 00:45:34,100
So this is kind of like a, it's

1288
00:45:34,100 --> 00:45:35,560
kind of like Flutter or a framework.

1289
00:45:35,780 --> 00:45:36,640
Yeah, kind of.

1290
00:45:36,740 --> 00:45:36,900
Yeah.

1291
00:45:36,980 --> 00:45:39,820
So the.net Maui itself allows you access

1292
00:45:39,820 --> 00:45:42,440
to, you know, the platform API so that

1293
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:44,700
you can call audio player.

1294
00:45:44,860 --> 00:45:48,360
And obviously then I call very specifically AV

1295
00:45:48,360 --> 00:45:51,980
player on iOS and XO player on Android.

1296
00:45:51,980 --> 00:45:54,380
And all sorts of other things like a

1297
00:45:54,380 --> 00:45:57,720
haptic feedback, the subscription APIs, you name it,

1298
00:45:57,740 --> 00:45:58,600
all sorts of stuff.

1299
00:45:59,660 --> 00:46:01,960
So.net Maui just enables that for you,

1300
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,820
which is still painful because the whole build

1301
00:46:04,820 --> 00:46:07,140
tool chain, every time you build and you

1302
00:46:07,140 --> 00:46:09,700
debug, you know, that can break so easily.

1303
00:46:10,320 --> 00:46:11,440
Oh yeah, I'm sure.

1304
00:46:11,700 --> 00:46:11,900
It's very brittle.

1305
00:46:12,460 --> 00:46:14,560
And so all this would have to, you're

1306
00:46:14,560 --> 00:46:15,860
having to do all this on a Mac,

1307
00:46:15,920 --> 00:46:17,660
I'm assuming, because then you have to sign

1308
00:46:17,660 --> 00:46:20,340
the executables and all that.

1309
00:46:20,340 --> 00:46:21,100
Yeah.

1310
00:46:21,260 --> 00:46:23,040
And that's also very difficult.

1311
00:46:23,120 --> 00:46:25,260
I find with the app store, like I

1312
00:46:25,260 --> 00:46:27,140
got an email yesterday or something like, Hey,

1313
00:46:27,160 --> 00:46:29,940
your certificate for something, something's going to expire

1314
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:32,220
and things will stop working.

1315
00:46:32,320 --> 00:46:34,060
You need to update your certificate.

1316
00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:36,580
So what LLM do you use for vibe

1317
00:46:36,580 --> 00:46:36,960
coding?

1318
00:46:38,440 --> 00:46:39,300
I don't vibe code.

1319
00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:42,500
I'm a professional.

1320
00:46:44,140 --> 00:46:45,180
Oh, wow.

1321
00:46:46,680 --> 00:46:48,580
Slap, slap in the face.

1322
00:46:48,580 --> 00:46:50,240
I'm just going to mute myself here.

1323
00:46:51,060 --> 00:46:53,060
I'm proud of my vibe coding.

1324
00:46:53,360 --> 00:46:55,320
I'm, I'm, I'm a developer now.

1325
00:46:55,480 --> 00:46:56,720
I is a developer.

1326
00:46:57,740 --> 00:47:00,600
No, I'm happy that, uh, you know, your

1327
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,040
AI assistant is helping you to create codes.

1328
00:47:03,280 --> 00:47:05,720
You know, my AI is writing the code.

1329
00:47:05,820 --> 00:47:07,240
I'm the one that's debugging it.

1330
00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:08,240
That's all I'm doing.

1331
00:47:10,260 --> 00:47:12,960
Sarcasm in Dutch is just as effective as

1332
00:47:12,960 --> 00:47:13,620
it is in English.

1333
00:47:14,540 --> 00:47:16,000
So you need to be a pretty good

1334
00:47:16,000 --> 00:47:18,540
developer to actually, uh, you know, use those

1335
00:47:18,540 --> 00:47:20,400
tools because it spits out all sorts of

1336
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:20,660
stuff.

1337
00:47:20,740 --> 00:47:22,240
And if you don't understand what it does,

1338
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:24,300
then you're going to get a crap product.

1339
00:47:24,380 --> 00:47:27,100
I think I, because I have 30, 40

1340
00:47:27,100 --> 00:47:32,960
years of basic Linux command line experience and

1341
00:47:32,960 --> 00:47:37,840
understanding of sockets and, you know, like, well,

1342
00:47:37,840 --> 00:47:39,440
of course, back in my day was Apache

1343
00:47:39,440 --> 00:47:40,660
and now it's Nginx.

1344
00:47:41,220 --> 00:47:43,400
Um, you know, some, just some of that

1345
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:47,300
basic stuff because I, I know what it's

1346
00:47:47,300 --> 00:47:49,340
supposed, how it's supposed to fit together.

1347
00:47:49,920 --> 00:47:51,960
I think that's why I can actually get

1348
00:47:51,960 --> 00:47:52,660
something done.

1349
00:47:53,680 --> 00:47:55,780
Uh, because I've just been around it so

1350
00:47:55,780 --> 00:47:57,340
long, but I can't write a lick of

1351
00:47:57,340 --> 00:47:57,600
code.

1352
00:47:57,680 --> 00:47:59,360
I can, of course, now look at the

1353
00:47:59,360 --> 00:48:00,300
code and go, oh, okay.

1354
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,740
Cause it, I have to say it documents

1355
00:48:02,740 --> 00:48:03,320
pretty well.

1356
00:48:03,760 --> 00:48:05,160
So this is my question.

1357
00:48:05,520 --> 00:48:07,280
This is, this is, this is the thing

1358
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:08,980
that I'm waiting to figure out because what

1359
00:48:08,980 --> 00:48:10,980
this is, I mean, you're building full blown,

1360
00:48:11,280 --> 00:48:14,200
you know, products, products, baby.

1361
00:48:14,400 --> 00:48:14,720
Oh yeah.

1362
00:48:14,780 --> 00:48:15,520
With UIs.

1363
00:48:15,640 --> 00:48:17,060
I mean like this, this is the, so

1364
00:48:17,060 --> 00:48:19,060
I, and I have two questions here that

1365
00:48:19,060 --> 00:48:20,680
I want, because what this is, is a

1366
00:48:20,680 --> 00:48:22,820
real time social, this is a social experiment.

1367
00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,240
And like you are building something that is

1368
00:48:26,240 --> 00:48:28,600
going to actually go into production with customers.

1369
00:48:28,700 --> 00:48:29,040
Yes.

1370
00:48:29,880 --> 00:48:34,880
And that is going to be like, uh,

1371
00:48:34,880 --> 00:48:37,500
the biggest social experiment in real time that

1372
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,260
I can think of because, but here's a

1373
00:48:39,260 --> 00:48:40,340
serious, so here's the question.

1374
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:45,100
Number one, at what point will you find

1375
00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:49,820
that you actually can code in Python just

1376
00:48:49,820 --> 00:48:54,840
by looking at the vibe coding output for

1377
00:48:54,840 --> 00:48:56,200
months or years?

1378
00:48:56,980 --> 00:48:57,080
Yeah.

1379
00:48:57,140 --> 00:49:00,220
At some point, will you actually have begun

1380
00:49:00,220 --> 00:49:02,620
to understand what you're looking at and could

1381
00:49:02,620 --> 00:49:03,580
actually write it?

1382
00:49:04,360 --> 00:49:04,480
Okay.

1383
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:07,000
So I already can understand what I'm looking

1384
00:49:07,000 --> 00:49:07,380
at.

1385
00:49:07,920 --> 00:49:10,100
I really don't think I'll ever be able

1386
00:49:10,100 --> 00:49:10,740
to write it.

1387
00:49:10,860 --> 00:49:12,360
I mean, I've, I've done, cause it's all

1388
00:49:12,360 --> 00:49:12,820
Python.

1389
00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:16,420
Um, and I've, I've done a online Python

1390
00:49:16,420 --> 00:49:18,900
course in the past, you know, so I

1391
00:49:18,900 --> 00:49:21,680
understand all of the mechanics of it and

1392
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:24,360
modules and virtual environments.

1393
00:49:24,660 --> 00:49:27,300
And, you know, and I think I've, I

1394
00:49:27,300 --> 00:49:29,500
think I have a lot of that down

1395
00:49:29,500 --> 00:49:32,420
and understand it, but the actual writing of

1396
00:49:32,420 --> 00:49:36,060
the code with indentations and curly brackets, heck

1397
00:49:36,060 --> 00:49:36,420
no.

1398
00:49:36,420 --> 00:49:38,900
No, I don't think I'll ever be able

1399
00:49:38,900 --> 00:49:39,560
to write it.

1400
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:41,720
I really don't.

1401
00:49:41,900 --> 00:49:44,360
Well, the difference between the, see the, the

1402
00:49:44,360 --> 00:49:48,540
difference between taking a, taking a class and

1403
00:49:48,540 --> 00:49:51,840
doing what you're doing now is the, I'm

1404
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:53,540
a firm believer that you will, that you

1405
00:49:53,540 --> 00:49:57,740
cannot learn a language, a programming language that

1406
00:49:57,740 --> 00:50:00,220
you are not coding in for an active

1407
00:50:00,220 --> 00:50:00,780
project.

1408
00:50:00,940 --> 00:50:03,660
Like, I mean, something that actually is meaningful

1409
00:50:03,660 --> 00:50:04,220
to you.

1410
00:50:04,800 --> 00:50:06,920
I mean, let's put it this way.

1411
00:50:07,040 --> 00:50:09,380
I do a lot of customization of the

1412
00:50:09,380 --> 00:50:11,760
code because it's simple stuff.

1413
00:50:11,860 --> 00:50:16,780
Environment, you know, value, environment values, um, minimal

1414
00:50:16,780 --> 00:50:18,400
UI tweaks and stuff.

1415
00:50:18,460 --> 00:50:19,540
I do that.

1416
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:20,560
Okay.

1417
00:50:20,620 --> 00:50:21,400
Follow up question.

1418
00:50:22,060 --> 00:50:24,500
The things that you say, you just made

1419
00:50:24,500 --> 00:50:27,020
a comment that it is quote, simple stuff.

1420
00:50:27,660 --> 00:50:30,220
Would these things that you're talking about, these

1421
00:50:30,220 --> 00:50:32,660
tweaks you're making, would you still have considered

1422
00:50:32,660 --> 00:50:35,320
them to be simple stuff nine months ago?

1423
00:50:36,020 --> 00:50:36,140
Yes.

1424
00:50:36,460 --> 00:50:38,420
Because you started vibe coding.

1425
00:50:38,640 --> 00:50:38,900
Yes.

1426
00:50:38,980 --> 00:50:42,800
Because environment values and that's all the stuff

1427
00:50:42,800 --> 00:50:46,420
I already understood and was tweaking before in

1428
00:50:46,420 --> 00:50:46,780
things.

1429
00:50:47,080 --> 00:50:49,840
So that, I mean, I have to, I

1430
00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:51,580
have to be fair and honest.

1431
00:50:51,920 --> 00:50:53,960
I mean, it's to me that I've, it's

1432
00:50:53,960 --> 00:50:56,040
like flying the Cirrus aircraft.

1433
00:50:56,600 --> 00:51:00,720
I have a ballistic parachute known as Dave

1434
00:51:00,720 --> 00:51:01,140
Jones.

1435
00:51:01,260 --> 00:51:03,220
I know that if I really crash and

1436
00:51:03,220 --> 00:51:05,700
burn, I pull the chute and then Dave

1437
00:51:05,700 --> 00:51:07,100
will come in and say, let me see

1438
00:51:07,100 --> 00:51:07,980
what's going on.

1439
00:51:08,860 --> 00:51:10,960
So you have never pulled the chute before.

1440
00:51:11,340 --> 00:51:12,060
No, I have not.

1441
00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:13,820
No, I feel very confident.

1442
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:15,280
You know, it was like, oh, you know,

1443
00:51:15,340 --> 00:51:17,780
if it really falls down, but for instance,

1444
00:51:18,380 --> 00:51:23,060
um, it's, it's the stupidest things that no

1445
00:51:23,060 --> 00:51:26,400
vibe coding can tell you why your server

1446
00:51:26,400 --> 00:51:28,900
is running at, you know, at a load

1447
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:29,660
18.

1448
00:51:29,940 --> 00:51:31,660
You got to go in and figure it

1449
00:51:31,660 --> 00:51:33,580
out and you got to use tools and,

1450
00:51:33,580 --> 00:51:35,960
you know, H top, you'll start there.

1451
00:51:36,060 --> 00:51:36,220
Okay.

1452
00:51:36,220 --> 00:51:37,040
What's running?

1453
00:51:37,140 --> 00:51:38,080
Why is this running?

1454
00:51:38,440 --> 00:51:40,300
And then you find out that where you

1455
00:51:40,300 --> 00:51:43,560
thought you were only running 30, uh, channel

1456
00:51:43,560 --> 00:51:46,000
streams, you were actually running 300, you know,

1457
00:51:46,000 --> 00:51:47,460
like, oh, okay, well that kind of makes

1458
00:51:47,460 --> 00:51:47,840
sense.

1459
00:51:47,840 --> 00:51:50,940
You know, you know, just stuff that fired

1460
00:51:50,940 --> 00:51:52,820
up and you, you never noticed it before.

1461
00:51:52,820 --> 00:51:55,220
And there was actually all, all vibe coding

1462
00:51:55,220 --> 00:51:56,940
mistakes, all LLM mistakes.

1463
00:51:57,040 --> 00:51:59,420
I mean, these things, they don't, they think,

1464
00:52:00,580 --> 00:52:05,280
uh, they don't, they don't actually, the way

1465
00:52:05,280 --> 00:52:09,680
that they code stuff is not the same

1466
00:52:09,680 --> 00:52:13,040
thinking pattern that you write code with.

1467
00:52:13,060 --> 00:52:14,060
Does that make any sense?

1468
00:52:14,660 --> 00:52:16,720
It's like, you got to be pretty strict

1469
00:52:16,720 --> 00:52:19,020
about how things happen and how things are

1470
00:52:19,020 --> 00:52:22,000
done, but it'll just add some other things

1471
00:52:22,000 --> 00:52:23,720
that it won't even tell you that it

1472
00:52:23,720 --> 00:52:24,180
did.

1473
00:52:24,500 --> 00:52:26,660
And like, well, what, what is happening here?

1474
00:52:26,720 --> 00:52:29,220
Well, I fired up these 15 processes over

1475
00:52:29,220 --> 00:52:30,420
here and I did that over.

1476
00:52:30,500 --> 00:52:32,560
It didn't, doesn't tell me that I've got

1477
00:52:32,560 --> 00:52:33,140
to go in and look.

1478
00:52:33,260 --> 00:52:34,160
So what is this?

1479
00:52:34,340 --> 00:52:34,680
Oh yeah.

1480
00:52:34,700 --> 00:52:35,860
No, I thought that would be handy.

1481
00:52:35,860 --> 00:52:37,580
You know, it's like stuff I didn't tell

1482
00:52:37,580 --> 00:52:38,280
it to do.

1483
00:52:40,700 --> 00:52:43,420
Chat F, never ask a vibe coder what

1484
00:52:43,420 --> 00:52:45,020
the changes in their commits mean.

1485
00:52:45,580 --> 00:52:47,560
No, I mean, we already went through this

1486
00:52:47,560 --> 00:52:47,940
before.

1487
00:52:48,080 --> 00:52:50,880
It's like final this time for real dot

1488
00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:51,740
B-A-K.

1489
00:52:52,140 --> 00:52:52,660
Yeah.

1490
00:52:52,980 --> 00:52:53,180
Yeah.

1491
00:52:53,560 --> 00:52:54,640
So that's question.

1492
00:52:54,720 --> 00:52:54,920
Okay.

1493
00:52:54,920 --> 00:53:02,330
So question two is, and this is, you

1494
00:53:02,330 --> 00:53:04,270
know, well, it's not really a question, I

1495
00:53:04,270 --> 00:53:04,450
guess.

1496
00:53:04,450 --> 00:53:05,410
It's a, it's a comment.

1497
00:53:05,410 --> 00:53:10,460
At some point when you're vibe coding, you're

1498
00:53:10,460 --> 00:53:13,380
going to be producing code and putting it

1499
00:53:13,380 --> 00:53:17,500
into production that you don't fully understand.

1500
00:53:18,400 --> 00:53:19,080
No, no.

1501
00:53:19,200 --> 00:53:20,460
I know what everything does.

1502
00:53:21,380 --> 00:53:23,340
But what I'm saying is, do you know

1503
00:53:23,340 --> 00:53:27,360
if there is, do you know if any

1504
00:53:27,360 --> 00:53:30,000
of the OWASP top 10 vulnerability, web app

1505
00:53:30,000 --> 00:53:32,040
vulnerabilities apply to your code or not?

1506
00:53:32,180 --> 00:53:33,720
No, no, you're absolutely right.

1507
00:53:33,760 --> 00:53:34,080
I don't.

1508
00:53:34,080 --> 00:53:37,580
I'm sure that the security issues, I'm trying

1509
00:53:37,580 --> 00:53:39,520
to be really good about it, but I'm

1510
00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:41,500
sure that no, I mean, of course not.

1511
00:53:41,800 --> 00:53:45,260
I feel like there's a separate suite of

1512
00:53:45,260 --> 00:53:47,980
things that need to happen there for vibe

1513
00:53:47,980 --> 00:53:52,020
code output where you come along and say,

1514
00:53:52,160 --> 00:53:54,760
okay, now you use some sort of agent

1515
00:53:54,760 --> 00:53:57,780
to then test for other things that could

1516
00:53:57,780 --> 00:53:58,220
be wrong.

1517
00:53:58,220 --> 00:54:03,260
Like, hey, here's a web service running on

1518
00:54:03,260 --> 00:54:05,300
this, you know, this URL.

1519
00:54:05,900 --> 00:54:08,900
Please test this for the top, you know,

1520
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:12,020
10 web, you know, web vulnerabilities cross, try

1521
00:54:12,020 --> 00:54:15,200
to cross a site script it, try to

1522
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,040
SQL inject it, where you could hit it

1523
00:54:19,040 --> 00:54:22,060
with some other agent to double check, because

1524
00:54:22,060 --> 00:54:24,380
you won't, you won't, since you didn't code

1525
00:54:24,380 --> 00:54:26,280
it, you won't know in advance if any

1526
00:54:26,280 --> 00:54:27,900
of those things were done.

1527
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:28,400
Yes.

1528
00:54:28,660 --> 00:54:30,340
And, and to be fair, the things that

1529
00:54:30,340 --> 00:54:32,260
I'm doing, I mean, there's, there's not a

1530
00:54:32,260 --> 00:54:33,960
SQL database in sight.

1531
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,820
I mean, there's, there's, there's not a lot

1532
00:54:36,820 --> 00:54:38,000
of that going on.

1533
00:54:38,000 --> 00:54:40,380
And the best thing I, the best two

1534
00:54:40,380 --> 00:54:44,360
things I learned, one is, is something that

1535
00:54:44,360 --> 00:54:46,580
you're going to interact with this, just spin

1536
00:54:46,580 --> 00:54:48,700
up a $5 Linode, put it all on

1537
00:54:48,700 --> 00:54:48,860
there.

1538
00:54:48,900 --> 00:54:50,060
Thank you for teaching me that.

1539
00:54:50,200 --> 00:54:51,660
Just put it all on there.

1540
00:54:51,720 --> 00:54:53,560
And then if that screws up, it won't

1541
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:54,880
take down everything else.

1542
00:54:55,430 --> 00:54:59,000
And the second, yeah, the second thing that

1543
00:54:59,000 --> 00:55:01,100
I'm really, I'm struggling with, but I'm getting

1544
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:04,700
better, is connecting everything to GitHub.

1545
00:55:04,840 --> 00:55:06,400
I have to do, I had to do

1546
00:55:06,400 --> 00:55:11,340
that because now I have three, four customers,

1547
00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:13,160
quote unquote, of this one product.

1548
00:55:13,680 --> 00:55:15,200
And so, you know, if I want to

1549
00:55:15,200 --> 00:55:19,300
make an upgrade, it's complicated, you know, because

1550
00:55:19,300 --> 00:55:23,200
now, now you're copy pasting code between, between

1551
00:55:23,200 --> 00:55:24,160
Linode servers.

1552
00:55:24,160 --> 00:55:25,600
And none of that's good.

1553
00:55:25,900 --> 00:55:27,160
And I can do that with four, but

1554
00:55:27,160 --> 00:55:28,220
not with 10.

1555
00:55:29,480 --> 00:55:29,580
Right.

1556
00:55:29,680 --> 00:55:30,740
It'll become crazy.

1557
00:55:34,180 --> 00:55:36,660
So I think it's still all very limited,

1558
00:55:36,980 --> 00:55:37,100
Dave.

1559
00:55:37,220 --> 00:55:38,160
I really do.

1560
00:55:38,320 --> 00:55:41,100
And you have, if you don't really know

1561
00:55:41,100 --> 00:55:43,780
what it's supposed to do, then I don't

1562
00:55:43,780 --> 00:55:45,200
think you can have a lot of success

1563
00:55:45,200 --> 00:55:45,560
with it.

1564
00:55:45,620 --> 00:55:46,140
Yeah, okay.

1565
00:55:46,140 --> 00:55:47,720
I can do a check-in thing for

1566
00:55:47,720 --> 00:55:50,180
my office when people swipe a badge or

1567
00:55:50,180 --> 00:55:50,420
something.

1568
00:55:50,500 --> 00:55:51,580
I can see that.

1569
00:55:51,720 --> 00:55:52,760
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

1570
00:55:52,760 --> 00:55:55,500
But, you know, a complete streaming server, radio

1571
00:55:55,500 --> 00:55:58,420
station with an admin interface, you got to

1572
00:55:58,420 --> 00:55:59,120
know what you're doing.

1573
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:00,720
You got to know how the, how you

1574
00:56:00,720 --> 00:56:03,100
really want the system to work and what

1575
00:56:03,100 --> 00:56:05,060
you really want it to be.

1576
00:56:05,320 --> 00:56:07,940
And then it actually, the LLM made some

1577
00:56:07,940 --> 00:56:09,400
assumptions, which I liked.

1578
00:56:09,740 --> 00:56:13,120
Like, okay, now I like this click, expand,

1579
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:13,840
drop down.

1580
00:56:13,940 --> 00:56:14,900
That's a good way to do it.

1581
00:56:15,560 --> 00:56:17,200
And so I'm sure someone else did it

1582
00:56:17,200 --> 00:56:18,640
somewhere and it's in the corpus.

1583
00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:21,520
But I'm a user, you know, I'm not

1584
00:56:21,520 --> 00:56:23,640
just someone who's just building something for a

1585
00:56:23,640 --> 00:56:23,940
customer.

1586
00:56:24,100 --> 00:56:26,180
I'm a user, very much like Barry with

1587
00:56:26,180 --> 00:56:26,540
his apps.

1588
00:56:26,640 --> 00:56:28,360
Like, I know exactly what I want this

1589
00:56:28,360 --> 00:56:30,280
to do because I've been doing it for,

1590
00:56:30,360 --> 00:56:32,180
you know, 45 years.

1591
00:56:32,680 --> 00:56:34,680
Like, I know what this thing has to

1592
00:56:34,680 --> 00:56:34,960
do.

1593
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:36,920
And see, I think that's where you really

1594
00:56:36,920 --> 00:56:38,780
learn how to code is when you have

1595
00:56:38,780 --> 00:56:40,860
something that you're, when you have a project

1596
00:56:40,860 --> 00:56:45,700
that you're intimate with and you just find

1597
00:56:45,700 --> 00:56:47,780
yourself in the code all the time.

1598
00:56:47,880 --> 00:56:49,060
I think, I don't know.

1599
00:56:49,060 --> 00:56:50,700
I feel like there's some sort of osmosis

1600
00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:51,340
that happens.

1601
00:56:52,680 --> 00:56:54,120
I don't know, maybe a year from now,

1602
00:56:54,200 --> 00:56:56,860
I feel like you'll look at that and

1603
00:56:56,860 --> 00:56:59,260
say, you'll, I feel like you may end

1604
00:56:59,260 --> 00:57:02,120
up like knowing more Python than you realize.

1605
00:57:02,240 --> 00:57:03,220
Yeah, don't hold your breath.

1606
00:57:03,320 --> 00:57:04,600
Maybe I'm, maybe I'm wrong.

1607
00:57:05,680 --> 00:57:06,940
Hey, I will say this.

1608
00:57:06,980 --> 00:57:09,180
I'm an expert at Nginx configurations.

1609
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:10,620
I know this thing hands down.

1610
00:57:11,280 --> 00:57:12,200
There you go.

1611
00:57:12,340 --> 00:57:14,560
But that's a config file.

1612
00:57:14,700 --> 00:57:17,000
You know, it's like, okay, I can see

1613
00:57:17,000 --> 00:57:17,700
what this is doing.

1614
00:57:17,800 --> 00:57:18,340
I understand.

1615
00:57:18,880 --> 00:57:20,780
Well, look, I mean, code's just a big

1616
00:57:20,780 --> 00:57:21,520
config file.

1617
00:57:21,940 --> 00:57:23,860
It just configures your system to run some

1618
00:57:23,860 --> 00:57:24,180
code.

1619
00:57:24,580 --> 00:57:25,340
You know, yeah, true.

1620
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:27,640
But it's all this, like, oh, okay, so

1621
00:57:27,640 --> 00:57:28,360
you change this.

1622
00:57:28,420 --> 00:57:30,440
Well, you've got to restart the system service.

1623
00:57:30,640 --> 00:57:32,760
You know, it's like no LLM is going

1624
00:57:32,760 --> 00:57:34,500
to tell you this unless you go, it

1625
00:57:34,500 --> 00:57:35,100
doesn't work.

1626
00:57:35,400 --> 00:57:37,420
And then it'll take you through recompiling your

1627
00:57:37,420 --> 00:57:37,740
kernel.

1628
00:57:38,180 --> 00:57:39,380
Like, okay, yeah, good.

1629
00:57:42,080 --> 00:57:42,880
Stupid stuff.

1630
00:57:43,620 --> 00:57:45,780
Do you use any of that stuff, Barry?

1631
00:57:45,780 --> 00:57:48,400
Are you just, are you raw dogging it?

1632
00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,620
No, no, I use a Visual Studio, sometimes

1633
00:57:51,620 --> 00:57:52,640
Visual Studio code.

1634
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,200
And there's like a GitHub copilot baked into

1635
00:57:55,200 --> 00:57:55,420
it.

1636
00:57:55,680 --> 00:57:57,320
And when you use that, you can use

1637
00:57:57,320 --> 00:58:00,800
all sorts of models, including a GPT, Cloud,

1638
00:58:01,100 --> 00:58:02,400
all sorts of things.

1639
00:58:03,100 --> 00:58:04,240
I keep it small.

1640
00:58:04,440 --> 00:58:06,340
So for instance, it does, it's very helpful

1641
00:58:06,340 --> 00:58:07,180
on some things.

1642
00:58:07,600 --> 00:58:10,120
Like with the Podhome hosting, for instance, I

1643
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:11,700
do stuff with FFmpeg.

1644
00:58:12,360 --> 00:58:14,420
And you know, those commands can be very,

1645
00:58:14,540 --> 00:58:15,040
very complicated.

1646
00:58:15,040 --> 00:58:16,880
FFmpeg is my bitch.

1647
00:58:17,740 --> 00:58:18,840
It's super useful.

1648
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:25,900
FFmpeg, FFprobe, these, I mean, I built an

1649
00:58:25,900 --> 00:58:32,080
RTMP audio video conversion system that takes just

1650
00:58:32,080 --> 00:58:35,340
the audio of RTMP from BoxCast, which seems

1651
00:58:35,340 --> 00:58:36,820
to be most of our customers are using

1652
00:58:36,820 --> 00:58:39,780
that, or OBS, and then sends it to

1653
00:58:39,780 --> 00:58:40,780
an IceCast server.

1654
00:58:41,380 --> 00:58:44,660
And I figured out that you can very

1655
00:58:44,660 --> 00:58:47,820
easily do a takeover if you use an

1656
00:58:47,820 --> 00:58:49,520
alternative mount point.

1657
00:58:49,640 --> 00:58:50,800
I mean, there's all these things that I've

1658
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:52,120
just kind of learned on the way.

1659
00:58:52,400 --> 00:58:55,700
But FFmpeg, I mean, you can change the

1660
00:58:55,700 --> 00:58:56,720
world with that thing.

1661
00:58:57,420 --> 00:58:58,340
Yeah, it's awesome.

1662
00:59:00,060 --> 00:59:01,620
So, you know, when I need a very

1663
00:59:01,620 --> 00:59:03,800
specific command, I just ask, you know, I

1664
00:59:03,800 --> 00:59:06,200
want FFmpeg to do this with this input

1665
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:07,620
and then it just spits out something.

1666
00:59:07,620 --> 00:59:10,620
And I'm like, oh, why is the, I

1667
00:59:10,620 --> 00:59:11,760
don't know, dash R in there?

1668
00:59:11,880 --> 00:59:13,500
And it explains, well, dash R does this

1669
00:59:13,500 --> 00:59:13,940
and blah, blah, blah.

1670
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:14,840
That's a good point.

1671
00:59:14,980 --> 00:59:19,180
I have definitely learned the commands that I

1672
00:59:19,180 --> 00:59:21,860
use on the command line just for getting

1673
00:59:21,860 --> 00:59:23,800
stuff done and replacing stuff.

1674
00:59:24,920 --> 00:59:26,960
And as you say, all the different switches

1675
00:59:26,960 --> 00:59:29,960
for FFmpeg, yeah, by doing it, you learn

1676
00:59:29,960 --> 00:59:30,120
it.

1677
00:59:30,180 --> 00:59:31,340
And then like, oh, I can type that.

1678
00:59:31,400 --> 00:59:33,360
I don't have to ask Grok, what is

1679
00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:34,200
the command to do this?

1680
00:59:34,240 --> 00:59:35,040
I know what it is.

1681
00:59:35,620 --> 00:59:37,180
Yeah, well, you know, and that's what, and

1682
00:59:37,180 --> 00:59:40,640
that's what coding, that's what coding really is.

1683
00:59:40,880 --> 00:59:42,440
Yeah, it is, it is learning.

1684
00:59:42,680 --> 00:59:45,380
There's, there's, there's two aspects of coding.

1685
00:59:45,840 --> 00:59:48,460
There's learning the syntax of the language you're

1686
00:59:48,460 --> 00:59:50,820
in, which is one, which is, you know,

1687
00:59:50,820 --> 00:59:52,020
that's one aspect.

1688
00:59:52,020 --> 00:59:55,600
And then that, that's actually a very small

1689
00:59:55,600 --> 00:59:56,140
thing.

1690
00:59:56,460 --> 00:59:59,640
You could learn that for most languages within

1691
00:59:59,640 --> 01:00:02,680
a couple of hours of, of just kind

1692
01:00:02,680 --> 01:00:05,060
of playing around in a REPL or doing

1693
01:00:05,060 --> 01:00:05,680
something like that.

1694
01:00:05,740 --> 01:00:08,120
That is actually, learning the syntax is not

1695
01:00:08,120 --> 01:00:08,760
that hard.

1696
01:00:09,520 --> 01:00:14,040
The, what most people find the biggest learning

1697
01:00:14,040 --> 01:00:18,140
curve is to learn the standard library of

1698
01:00:18,140 --> 01:00:19,620
whatever the language they're in.

1699
01:00:19,800 --> 01:00:22,520
And that takes time because you begin to

1700
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:26,680
see that you're using the same functions of,

1701
01:00:26,800 --> 01:00:30,040
of the standard library or standard module packages

1702
01:00:30,040 --> 01:00:32,300
over and over and over again.

1703
01:00:33,020 --> 01:00:33,980
So that you learn their syntax.

1704
01:00:34,280 --> 01:00:39,440
Like OS, YAML, my favorite YAML, do a

1705
01:00:39,440 --> 01:00:40,040
lot with YAML.

1706
01:00:40,860 --> 01:00:42,360
I love, love me some YAML.

1707
01:00:44,040 --> 01:00:45,980
YAML, the Python of config files.

1708
01:00:46,120 --> 01:00:48,280
Yeah, well, actually what was, what was kind

1709
01:00:48,280 --> 01:00:52,100
of interesting was the podcast index API, or

1710
01:00:52,100 --> 01:00:54,320
I should say the Godcaster API, which is

1711
01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:58,560
a derivative, just getting out of it what

1712
01:00:58,560 --> 01:00:59,920
I wanted to get out of it.

1713
01:01:00,040 --> 01:01:05,800
Every single LLM really did not consider the

1714
01:01:05,800 --> 01:01:09,860
way that we use our API, which is

1715
01:01:09,860 --> 01:01:12,900
straight up, you know, dash H header, you

1716
01:01:12,900 --> 01:01:18,560
know, no bearer tokens, you know, and it

1717
01:01:18,560 --> 01:01:20,400
would try all kinds of stuff, said, no,

1718
01:01:20,580 --> 01:01:22,040
this is, do it like this.

1719
01:01:22,500 --> 01:01:23,480
And then it would work.

1720
01:01:23,860 --> 01:01:26,360
And, and no matter how many times, you

1721
01:01:26,360 --> 01:01:28,320
know, I go back to it, I always

1722
01:01:28,320 --> 01:01:32,040
wind up, you know, setting the, you know,

1723
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:35,280
the, like the get or the post, the

1724
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:35,940
get, I guess.

1725
01:01:36,640 --> 01:01:37,680
The method, yeah.

1726
01:01:37,700 --> 01:01:38,540
The method, thank you.

1727
01:01:38,700 --> 01:01:40,500
I was setting that, wind up setting it

1728
01:01:40,500 --> 01:01:44,540
myself because the AI just can't, it doesn't,

1729
01:01:44,840 --> 01:01:46,380
it won't compute for some reason.

1730
01:01:46,520 --> 01:01:48,400
It always wants to do, oh, this is

1731
01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:49,340
how we've always done it.

1732
01:01:51,510 --> 01:01:51,950
Yeah.

1733
01:01:52,530 --> 01:01:52,730
Yeah.

1734
01:01:52,730 --> 01:01:53,650
That's, that's the thing.

1735
01:01:53,810 --> 01:01:54,070
Yeah.

1736
01:01:54,950 --> 01:01:58,410
And I find that that's probably where most

1737
01:01:58,410 --> 01:02:01,590
things fall down is it's in the, it's

1738
01:02:01,590 --> 01:02:02,370
in the details.

1739
01:02:02,590 --> 01:02:07,330
If you'd have, if you're doing anything slightly

1740
01:02:08,110 --> 01:02:11,270
out of the off script or out of

1741
01:02:11,270 --> 01:02:13,530
the standard playbook, it's just like, it just

1742
01:02:13,530 --> 01:02:13,990
barfs.

1743
01:02:14,330 --> 01:02:14,550
Yes.

1744
01:02:14,790 --> 01:02:15,050
Yeah.

1745
01:02:15,930 --> 01:02:16,190
Yeah.

1746
01:02:16,190 --> 01:02:17,950
But also architecture things, right?

1747
01:02:17,990 --> 01:02:20,150
So if you, you, you build something and

1748
01:02:20,150 --> 01:02:21,890
you let the AI think about it, but

1749
01:02:21,890 --> 01:02:23,630
you need to think about how to make

1750
01:02:23,630 --> 01:02:24,510
that scalable.

1751
01:02:24,770 --> 01:02:26,130
Like, how do I do this for a

1752
01:02:26,130 --> 01:02:27,030
thousand customers?

1753
01:02:27,090 --> 01:02:28,910
Let's say this is going to be very

1754
01:02:28,910 --> 01:02:29,310
popular.

1755
01:02:29,310 --> 01:02:30,710
Does it still work?

1756
01:02:30,870 --> 01:02:31,890
Well, so is it secure?

1757
01:02:32,170 --> 01:02:34,650
And that's the perfect example because I started,

1758
01:02:34,810 --> 01:02:36,190
I mean, it took me three months to

1759
01:02:36,190 --> 01:02:38,990
get a working version of the channel stream,

1760
01:02:39,150 --> 01:02:42,310
which is basically, here's, here's a feed of

1761
01:02:42,310 --> 01:02:45,230
podcasts, play the most recent episode on an

1762
01:02:45,230 --> 01:02:47,550
Icecast stream and keep rotating those.

1763
01:02:47,610 --> 01:02:48,930
And oh, by the way, put a station

1764
01:02:48,930 --> 01:02:50,110
ID in the middle of them.

1765
01:02:50,610 --> 01:02:55,150
And I wound up with like a working

1766
01:02:55,150 --> 01:02:58,430
system that had three different scripts.

1767
01:02:58,430 --> 01:03:00,010
I'm like, this is ludicrous.

1768
01:03:00,890 --> 01:03:02,850
And so I was able to, you know,

1769
01:03:02,890 --> 01:03:04,630
completely refactor it.

1770
01:03:04,870 --> 01:03:07,270
And within a much shorter amount of time,

1771
01:03:07,510 --> 01:03:08,630
I created one script.

1772
01:03:08,730 --> 01:03:09,510
It does everything.

1773
01:03:09,790 --> 01:03:12,150
It's, it's low memory usage.

1774
01:03:12,450 --> 01:03:13,830
It's very low on CPU.

1775
01:03:15,030 --> 01:03:17,090
And, you know, so it took me like

1776
01:03:17,090 --> 01:03:19,910
four tries to really, like you said the

1777
01:03:19,910 --> 01:03:21,670
last week or the other week, Dave, like

1778
01:03:21,670 --> 01:03:24,250
software, you really have to rewrite it three

1779
01:03:24,250 --> 01:03:27,510
times before you really get it to where

1780
01:03:27,510 --> 01:03:28,170
it has to be.

1781
01:03:28,430 --> 01:03:31,330
So, so now you're becoming a software architect.

1782
01:03:32,230 --> 01:03:33,710
Can I put that on my LinkedIn?

1783
01:03:36,410 --> 01:03:36,850
Yeah.

1784
01:03:37,090 --> 01:03:39,270
The great, the great thing about it too,

1785
01:03:39,290 --> 01:03:41,910
is like I still have functions and methods.

1786
01:03:42,290 --> 01:03:44,970
Like anytime you have a project, at some

1787
01:03:44,970 --> 01:03:46,670
point you're going to end up with a

1788
01:03:46,670 --> 01:03:51,230
quote, utility class where you, you know, where

1789
01:03:51,230 --> 01:03:52,910
you just pile in a bunch of one

1790
01:03:52,910 --> 01:03:54,370
-off functions that you need.

1791
01:03:54,490 --> 01:03:54,870
Yeah.

1792
01:03:55,290 --> 01:03:57,910
And so, but the good thing is like,

1793
01:03:58,430 --> 01:04:00,290
over years and years and years, you begin

1794
01:04:00,290 --> 01:04:01,270
to like compile it.

1795
01:04:01,870 --> 01:04:03,950
This becomes a toolbox that you just drag

1796
01:04:03,950 --> 01:04:05,770
forward from one thing to another.

1797
01:04:05,890 --> 01:04:07,870
And it's like, I know I use the

1798
01:04:07,870 --> 01:04:13,170
same URL fetch code today that I did

1799
01:04:13,170 --> 01:04:16,290
20 years ago, because it's exactly what I

1800
01:04:16,290 --> 01:04:16,670
want.

1801
01:04:16,750 --> 01:04:18,230
And it works the way I need it

1802
01:04:18,230 --> 01:04:18,590
to.

1803
01:04:18,910 --> 01:04:20,490
And like, you'll be, you drag that forward

1804
01:04:20,490 --> 01:04:22,110
and then you don't, you forget what's even

1805
01:04:22,110 --> 01:04:23,170
in that function.

1806
01:04:23,310 --> 01:04:24,830
Cause all you do is call it, you

1807
01:04:24,830 --> 01:04:24,990
know.

1808
01:04:25,170 --> 01:04:25,350
Yeah.

1809
01:04:25,350 --> 01:04:26,970
I got this one that I didn't make

1810
01:04:26,970 --> 01:04:30,250
it, but Werkzeug.Utils. Werkzeug.

1811
01:04:31,210 --> 01:04:33,570
It was like, it's like worker bee kind

1812
01:04:33,570 --> 01:04:34,270
of basically.

1813
01:04:34,650 --> 01:04:35,450
It sounds Russian.

1814
01:04:35,870 --> 01:04:36,910
It does all, they're German.

1815
01:04:37,050 --> 01:04:38,610
It does all kinds of cool stuff.

1816
01:04:38,870 --> 01:04:39,090
Yeah.

1817
01:04:40,370 --> 01:04:41,810
Report lab platypus.

1818
01:04:42,010 --> 01:04:42,170
Woo.

1819
01:04:43,590 --> 01:04:43,990
Yeah.

1820
01:04:45,170 --> 01:04:45,570
Yeah.

1821
01:04:45,630 --> 01:04:46,790
It's, it's fun.

1822
01:04:46,890 --> 01:04:48,430
I'm having a lot of fun doing it.

1823
01:04:48,510 --> 01:04:50,270
Takes me away from life, but I have

1824
01:04:50,270 --> 01:04:51,310
a lot of fun doing it.

1825
01:04:52,510 --> 01:04:55,370
Barry, what is, what is your, what is

1826
01:04:55,370 --> 01:04:57,810
your success rate with your, with your app?

1827
01:04:57,830 --> 01:04:58,810
Are you seeing some good adoption?

1828
01:04:59,990 --> 01:05:00,730
Oh yeah.

1829
01:05:01,390 --> 01:05:04,170
I can see it in an Apple podcast

1830
01:05:04,170 --> 01:05:07,490
or the Apple podcast, the iOS store thing,

1831
01:05:07,570 --> 01:05:09,970
and also the play store for Google.

1832
01:05:10,110 --> 01:05:14,410
Like combined is I have 1500 downloads and

1833
01:05:14,410 --> 01:05:15,930
people actually open it as well.

1834
01:05:16,070 --> 01:05:16,650
So that's good.

1835
01:05:17,250 --> 01:05:17,430
Yeah.

1836
01:05:17,510 --> 01:05:17,930
That's great.

1837
01:05:18,570 --> 01:05:21,050
So I sync minimal data to the backend

1838
01:05:21,050 --> 01:05:24,850
so that I can send notifications to people.

1839
01:05:25,490 --> 01:05:27,670
And that's when you, when you log into

1840
01:05:27,670 --> 01:05:29,370
the thing or you don't even log in,

1841
01:05:29,470 --> 01:05:31,150
when you start the thing up, it creates

1842
01:05:31,150 --> 01:05:33,250
an automatic account, which is a pin code.

1843
01:05:33,470 --> 01:05:35,170
If you take that pin code to a

1844
01:05:35,170 --> 01:05:37,630
different device, log in there, and then it

1845
01:05:37,630 --> 01:05:40,550
syncs all your subscriptions to the different devices

1846
01:05:40,550 --> 01:05:40,930
as well.

1847
01:05:42,310 --> 01:05:44,350
That means I can see all your subscriptions

1848
01:05:44,350 --> 01:05:45,150
in the backend.

1849
01:05:45,450 --> 01:05:47,510
I have no idea who you are or

1850
01:05:47,510 --> 01:05:47,950
where you are.

1851
01:05:48,030 --> 01:05:49,170
I can just see it to a pin

1852
01:05:49,170 --> 01:05:50,810
code and a user.

1853
01:05:51,370 --> 01:05:53,930
So I can see how many people subscribe

1854
01:05:53,930 --> 01:05:55,530
to things, which is cool.

1855
01:05:56,370 --> 01:05:58,010
Based on that, I can see, you know,

1856
01:05:58,390 --> 01:06:00,170
there are, I don't know, 500 people subscribe

1857
01:06:00,170 --> 01:06:02,670
to Joe Rogan, a couple of people to

1858
01:06:02,670 --> 01:06:04,730
podcasting 2.0 and all sorts of other

1859
01:06:04,730 --> 01:06:05,290
shows as well.

1860
01:06:06,030 --> 01:06:09,130
So I got, what was the last one?

1861
01:06:09,250 --> 01:06:10,110
Let me see that now.

1862
01:06:10,270 --> 01:06:11,750
And you're selling that to a Meta?

1863
01:06:13,210 --> 01:06:13,650
Yeah.

1864
01:06:15,330 --> 01:06:17,710
Meta, that's a disgusting company.

1865
01:06:19,050 --> 01:06:20,090
Come on, man.

1866
01:06:20,170 --> 01:06:21,110
Come on, man.

1867
01:06:21,170 --> 01:06:21,630
It is.

1868
01:06:22,050 --> 01:06:23,130
Well, okay.

1869
01:06:23,290 --> 01:06:24,850
No, we can pull a couple of thousand

1870
01:06:24,850 --> 01:06:27,890
podcast subscriptions, like unique shows that people are

1871
01:06:27,890 --> 01:06:29,290
subscribed to, which is pretty cool.

1872
01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:31,190
So this is a thing that I've been

1873
01:06:31,190 --> 01:06:32,150
throwing around forever.

1874
01:06:32,490 --> 01:06:35,270
And I feel like I just need, I'm

1875
01:06:35,270 --> 01:06:36,770
just going to have to do it.

1876
01:06:36,890 --> 01:06:40,030
And this is a perfect time to ask

1877
01:06:40,030 --> 01:06:45,010
your opinion on this is, since I've talked

1878
01:06:45,010 --> 01:06:46,810
about this before, since the index does it,

1879
01:06:46,810 --> 01:06:51,290
since the podcast index does not have any

1880
01:06:51,290 --> 01:06:53,510
first party subscription data, we don't know who

1881
01:06:53,510 --> 01:06:54,370
subscribes to anything.

1882
01:06:55,950 --> 01:06:59,070
We just try, I just try to use

1883
01:06:59,070 --> 01:07:01,790
heuristics to sort of figure out what's popular

1884
01:07:01,790 --> 01:07:02,710
and what's not.

1885
01:07:04,030 --> 01:07:08,630
And having some way to send back an

1886
01:07:08,630 --> 01:07:13,910
anonymized batch of, here's the top podcasts that

1887
01:07:13,910 --> 01:07:19,190
pod home app subscribers have subscribed to, would

1888
01:07:19,190 --> 01:07:21,010
that be something you'd be willing to do?

1889
01:07:21,990 --> 01:07:22,570
Yeah, sure.

1890
01:07:23,410 --> 01:07:23,570
Okay.

1891
01:07:23,570 --> 01:07:25,350
That should be super easy to send that,

1892
01:07:25,730 --> 01:07:27,670
to set up as an API or something,

1893
01:07:27,750 --> 01:07:28,450
or how do you want?

1894
01:07:28,470 --> 01:07:30,430
Yeah, what format would, do you think it

1895
01:07:30,430 --> 01:07:33,410
should, how should that thing be pushed back

1896
01:07:33,410 --> 01:07:34,090
to us?

1897
01:07:35,350 --> 01:07:38,230
Because it could be a big batch of

1898
01:07:38,230 --> 01:07:38,810
data, you know?

1899
01:07:39,310 --> 01:07:39,730
Yeah.

1900
01:07:40,970 --> 01:07:43,170
If you open up an API for that,

1901
01:07:43,290 --> 01:07:44,310
I can just send something.

1902
01:07:45,490 --> 01:07:45,830
Okay.

1903
01:07:46,790 --> 01:07:49,290
I thought about CSV upload or just a

1904
01:07:49,290 --> 01:07:50,350
JSON object.

1905
01:07:50,610 --> 01:07:52,010
It needs to be something that I can

1906
01:07:52,010 --> 01:07:54,610
easily automate so that I don't have to

1907
01:07:54,610 --> 01:07:55,410
think about it anymore.

1908
01:07:56,210 --> 01:07:57,390
What is that for you?

1909
01:07:57,550 --> 01:07:58,170
What would that be?

1910
01:07:58,310 --> 01:07:59,970
So I have all sorts of things running

1911
01:07:59,970 --> 01:08:03,450
in the background, database cleaners, all sorts of

1912
01:08:03,450 --> 01:08:03,710
things.

1913
01:08:04,530 --> 01:08:06,250
And this can be just one of those

1914
01:08:06,250 --> 01:08:10,530
jobs that occasionally checks, you know, these are

1915
01:08:10,530 --> 01:08:12,390
all the subscriptions and then send it to

1916
01:08:12,390 --> 01:08:13,490
one of your endpoints.

1917
01:08:13,850 --> 01:08:14,670
And that's it.

1918
01:08:15,430 --> 01:08:15,950
Okay.

1919
01:08:16,770 --> 01:08:18,550
I'm going to build something because I have

1920
01:08:18,550 --> 01:08:20,450
a, the reason this is coming up in

1921
01:08:20,450 --> 01:08:23,930
my mind again is because Franco told me

1922
01:08:23,930 --> 01:08:31,109
that Apple stopped supporting a way in, stopped

1923
01:08:31,109 --> 01:08:34,270
supporting in their API, in the iTunes lookup

1924
01:08:34,270 --> 01:08:37,810
API, where you could ask for a genre

1925
01:08:37,810 --> 01:08:43,310
with no podcast specified and have it return

1926
01:08:43,310 --> 01:08:47,950
like a list of recommended shows.

1927
01:08:48,109 --> 01:08:50,630
Like, I guess when you did not specify

1928
01:08:50,630 --> 01:08:52,590
a particular podcast and you just gave it

1929
01:08:52,590 --> 01:08:54,069
a genre, it would give you like maybe

1930
01:08:54,069 --> 01:08:56,370
the top of that genre.

1931
01:08:56,770 --> 01:08:58,609
And he said that recently stopped working.

1932
01:08:58,810 --> 01:08:59,229
Oh, did you?

1933
01:08:59,310 --> 01:08:59,470
Okay.

1934
01:08:59,950 --> 01:09:01,569
He said that recently stopped working.

1935
01:09:01,770 --> 01:09:03,689
And I was like, well, I can work

1936
01:09:03,689 --> 01:09:05,910
on giving you an equivalent to that.

1937
01:09:06,189 --> 01:09:07,910
I'd be happy to do that.

1938
01:09:09,490 --> 01:09:11,750
And the first thing I ran into was,

1939
01:09:11,830 --> 01:09:13,390
well, how do we rank these?

1940
01:09:13,870 --> 01:09:16,390
I don't have anything because I can't, I

1941
01:09:16,390 --> 01:09:18,310
could just give ran, I could just give

1942
01:09:18,310 --> 01:09:20,290
a batch of, you know, a hundred back

1943
01:09:20,290 --> 01:09:23,170
randomly, but they could just be complete garbage.

1944
01:09:24,109 --> 01:09:26,370
If it's not something that people is this,

1945
01:09:26,770 --> 01:09:28,410
if it's not things that people are actually

1946
01:09:28,410 --> 01:09:32,870
interested in, then I don't, it's not useful.

1947
01:09:33,109 --> 01:09:36,029
If you open up an endpoint, I can

1948
01:09:36,029 --> 01:09:38,130
send you some stuff and I'm sure all

1949
01:09:38,130 --> 01:09:40,710
of our app building friends can also pretty

1950
01:09:40,710 --> 01:09:42,850
easily then just send things if it's the

1951
01:09:42,850 --> 01:09:45,010
very, you know, easy API call.

1952
01:09:46,010 --> 01:09:46,110
Yeah.

1953
01:09:46,110 --> 01:09:48,330
And I can aggregate that and then just

1954
01:09:48,330 --> 01:09:50,470
give it back in the genre lookup endpoint.

1955
01:09:51,490 --> 01:09:51,750
Yeah.

1956
01:09:51,810 --> 01:09:54,050
And then, you know, maybe filter are these

1957
01:09:54,050 --> 01:09:57,390
actually recently updated shows and things like that.

1958
01:09:58,010 --> 01:09:58,250
Yeah.

1959
01:09:58,350 --> 01:09:58,590
Yeah.

1960
01:09:58,710 --> 01:09:58,930
Okay.

1961
01:09:59,130 --> 01:09:59,550
All right, cool.

1962
01:09:59,630 --> 01:10:01,410
I'll put something together and I'll ping you.

1963
01:10:02,190 --> 01:10:02,470
Yeah.

1964
01:10:02,790 --> 01:10:05,310
So, you know, everybody that's listening, that's also

1965
01:10:05,310 --> 01:10:08,170
building an app, please then also send stuff

1966
01:10:08,170 --> 01:10:10,430
to Dave's lovely new endpoints.

1967
01:10:11,670 --> 01:10:12,230
Right.

1968
01:10:12,830 --> 01:10:14,070
Yes, it will be easy.

1969
01:10:14,410 --> 01:10:16,210
Before I forget Dave, I was listening to

1970
01:10:16,210 --> 01:10:19,570
Power and I heard Jay, he may have

1971
01:10:19,570 --> 01:10:20,490
pinged you about this.

1972
01:10:21,090 --> 01:10:22,670
James was looking to see if he could

1973
01:10:22,670 --> 01:10:25,510
get an endpoint on the API that is

1974
01:10:25,510 --> 01:10:28,470
most recent that has location tag.

1975
01:10:29,190 --> 01:10:29,510
Yes.

1976
01:10:29,670 --> 01:10:33,070
And I emailed him about that a couple

1977
01:10:33,070 --> 01:10:34,010
of months ago, I think.

1978
01:10:34,590 --> 01:10:36,490
And it's on my to-do list.

1979
01:10:37,170 --> 01:10:39,270
When I, I think, so, you know, with

1980
01:10:39,270 --> 01:10:41,270
the Godcaster stuff, I'm building a location-based

1981
01:10:41,270 --> 01:10:42,530
thing right now.

1982
01:10:42,550 --> 01:10:42,850
Right.

1983
01:10:43,010 --> 01:10:43,490
For search.

1984
01:10:43,690 --> 01:10:44,390
Location-based search.

1985
01:10:44,510 --> 01:10:46,590
And I think I'm going to take, I'm

1986
01:10:46,590 --> 01:10:48,650
going to take that code and then adapt

1987
01:10:48,650 --> 01:10:49,550
it over to the index.

1988
01:10:49,690 --> 01:10:50,490
So I think I'm going to be able

1989
01:10:50,490 --> 01:10:51,430
to get him what he wants.

1990
01:10:51,530 --> 01:10:51,770
Cool.

1991
01:10:51,930 --> 01:10:52,230
Okay.

1992
01:10:52,390 --> 01:10:54,170
I just want to make sure we service

1993
01:10:54,170 --> 01:10:54,910
our customers.

1994
01:10:55,690 --> 01:10:56,510
I'm an advisor.

1995
01:10:56,510 --> 01:10:57,050
Sorry.

1996
01:10:58,710 --> 01:10:59,770
Through the show.

1997
01:10:59,930 --> 01:11:00,690
I'm an advisor.

1998
01:11:00,830 --> 01:11:02,150
Yes, I'm an advisor to this.

1999
01:11:02,210 --> 01:11:03,250
You're advising right now.

2000
01:11:03,430 --> 01:11:04,890
Yeah, that's exactly what I'm doing.

2001
01:11:05,510 --> 01:11:08,790
So what's next, Podhome Barry, as most people

2002
01:11:08,790 --> 01:11:09,250
call you?

2003
01:11:11,490 --> 01:11:12,290
Is that right?

2004
01:11:13,210 --> 01:11:16,970
So yeah, for Podhome hosting, we're going to

2005
01:11:16,970 --> 01:11:20,150
build something for the funding tag, where people

2006
01:11:20,150 --> 01:11:22,550
can just easily set up a page.

2007
01:11:22,910 --> 01:11:24,690
Like I think Buzzsprout has a similar thing

2008
01:11:24,690 --> 01:11:25,050
as well.

2009
01:11:25,050 --> 01:11:27,850
But yes, they have a page and you

2010
01:11:27,850 --> 01:11:31,650
can just send money and that will just

2011
01:11:31,650 --> 01:11:32,450
go to you.

2012
01:11:32,870 --> 01:11:34,350
But that's one thing we're going to build.

2013
01:11:34,510 --> 01:11:37,070
We're also thinking of building like a very

2014
01:11:37,070 --> 01:11:41,670
rudimentary recording thing where you can just, in

2015
01:11:41,670 --> 01:11:44,850
the website or maybe in a different app,

2016
01:11:44,890 --> 01:11:45,430
I don't know yet.

2017
01:11:46,270 --> 01:11:50,490
And or also just click a button, record

2018
01:11:50,490 --> 01:11:53,390
some stuff, upload, and then that's it.

2019
01:11:53,390 --> 01:11:57,090
Just to make it easier for podcasters, because

2020
01:11:57,090 --> 01:11:59,610
that's the whole point of Podhome hosting.

2021
01:11:59,850 --> 01:12:02,170
We've built so many little tools that just

2022
01:12:02,170 --> 01:12:06,490
take away things that podcasters otherwise need to

2023
01:12:06,490 --> 01:12:10,150
buy somewhere else or use from somewhere else.

2024
01:12:10,290 --> 01:12:11,990
So we have the AI that's in there.

2025
01:12:12,170 --> 01:12:15,090
You get a website that we generate for

2026
01:12:15,090 --> 01:12:15,250
you.

2027
01:12:15,330 --> 01:12:16,810
All that type of stuff is just, it's

2028
01:12:16,810 --> 01:12:17,390
all in there.

2029
01:12:17,870 --> 01:12:19,710
So if we also can do something with

2030
01:12:19,710 --> 01:12:23,070
recording, audio of course, that'd be very cool

2031
01:12:23,070 --> 01:12:24,990
because we kind of already do that for,

2032
01:12:25,130 --> 01:12:26,930
for instance, when people do a live show,

2033
01:12:27,030 --> 01:12:28,570
you get to click a button where you

2034
01:12:28,570 --> 01:12:31,430
say, record this stuff and then we record

2035
01:12:31,430 --> 01:12:33,950
the live show and we put that as

2036
01:12:33,950 --> 01:12:36,490
an episode within your show and you just

2037
01:12:36,490 --> 01:12:38,690
hit publish and then pops your uncle.

2038
01:12:39,390 --> 01:12:42,010
So we could do that, but you know,

2039
01:12:42,130 --> 01:12:44,330
it's, yeah, we're thinking about that.

2040
01:12:44,930 --> 01:12:47,190
You keep saying we, is this the royal

2041
01:12:47,190 --> 01:12:47,430
we?

2042
01:12:47,510 --> 01:12:48,950
I was wondering about that myself.

2043
01:12:49,510 --> 01:12:52,190
No, so it's me and it's Jurre and

2044
01:12:52,190 --> 01:12:54,390
Martijn and those guys are freelancers.

2045
01:12:54,610 --> 01:12:57,630
They don't work full time, but I hire

2046
01:12:57,630 --> 01:13:01,470
them for customer support, bug fixes sometimes and

2047
01:13:01,470 --> 01:13:02,870
sometimes to build features as well.

2048
01:13:03,730 --> 01:13:04,770
Oh, great, cool.

2049
01:13:05,470 --> 01:13:07,330
So yeah, how is support?

2050
01:13:07,790 --> 01:13:10,030
How much of a burden is support on

2051
01:13:10,030 --> 01:13:10,230
you?

2052
01:13:10,290 --> 01:13:11,730
Has it been bad or?

2053
01:13:11,870 --> 01:13:14,310
No, it's actually pretty, pretty okay.

2054
01:13:14,470 --> 01:13:17,050
I think the UI is pretty user-friendly.

2055
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:20,770
You know, obviously we're dealing with users.

2056
01:13:20,770 --> 01:13:25,510
So sometimes we get difficult questions.

2057
01:13:25,670 --> 01:13:26,530
Tell me about it.

2058
01:13:26,990 --> 01:13:28,670
Our software would be great if we had

2059
01:13:28,670 --> 01:13:29,310
no users.

2060
01:13:29,570 --> 01:13:30,470
Oh, that would be awesome.

2061
01:13:33,090 --> 01:13:34,710
One thing that people do is of course,

2062
01:13:34,870 --> 01:13:36,130
upload their audio, right?

2063
01:13:36,190 --> 01:13:38,210
So you go to a thing, you hit

2064
01:13:38,210 --> 01:13:39,490
a box and then you get to choose

2065
01:13:39,490 --> 01:13:42,010
your audio file and it goes to upload

2066
01:13:42,010 --> 01:13:44,650
and you see a little bar going from

2067
01:13:44,650 --> 01:13:45,910
zero to a hundred.

2068
01:13:46,630 --> 01:13:48,590
Obviously you need to keep your browser open.

2069
01:13:48,590 --> 01:13:50,110
Oh no, no, I can close that tab,

2070
01:13:50,250 --> 01:13:50,650
can't I?

2071
01:13:50,770 --> 01:13:53,390
I can refresh this page, can't I?

2072
01:13:53,490 --> 01:13:54,610
Yeah, I can just go away.

2073
01:13:54,730 --> 01:13:56,350
Just, you know, turn off your computer and

2074
01:13:56,350 --> 01:13:58,390
then be surprised that it's not uploaded.

2075
01:13:58,530 --> 01:14:00,910
So there's questions like those, but those are

2076
01:14:00,910 --> 01:14:01,190
rare.

2077
01:14:02,570 --> 01:14:05,010
In the immortal words of Tom Rossi from

2078
01:14:05,010 --> 01:14:07,250
Buzzsprout, if you put a box on a

2079
01:14:07,250 --> 01:14:08,870
screen, somebody's going to type in it.

2080
01:14:10,350 --> 01:14:11,130
That's right.

2081
01:14:11,730 --> 01:14:12,990
Hey, what's this box for?

2082
01:14:13,050 --> 01:14:14,750
Let me see, what can I do here?

2083
01:14:15,490 --> 01:14:16,130
Yeah, that's true.

2084
01:14:16,330 --> 01:14:18,930
It's been okay, it's been okay.

2085
01:14:18,930 --> 01:14:21,710
Yeah, it works pretty well.

2086
01:14:21,950 --> 01:14:24,550
It's pretty self-explanatory, the UI.

2087
01:14:24,710 --> 01:14:26,670
What are you doing for marketing?

2088
01:14:27,110 --> 01:14:30,430
I mean, how do you exactly- Yeah,

2089
01:14:30,430 --> 01:14:32,390
marketing, that's not my strength.

2090
01:14:32,690 --> 01:14:35,650
I do have hold home accounts on all

2091
01:14:35,650 --> 01:14:38,130
the social media except for Facebook because I

2092
01:14:38,130 --> 01:14:39,270
really don't want an account there.

2093
01:14:39,450 --> 01:14:41,350
I do have one for Instagram though, which

2094
01:14:41,350 --> 01:14:42,150
is same company.

2095
01:14:42,850 --> 01:14:45,710
And you know, just put some Canva generated

2096
01:14:45,710 --> 01:14:49,190
pictures on there with a link, with what's

2097
01:14:49,190 --> 01:14:49,510
it called?

2098
01:14:49,650 --> 01:14:51,550
Buffer, that's one of those things where you

2099
01:14:51,550 --> 01:14:53,570
can just schedule all that type of stuff.

2100
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:54,110
Yeah.

2101
01:14:54,890 --> 01:14:55,970
And that's it.

2102
01:14:56,510 --> 01:14:58,850
And, you know, sometimes I go on podcasts

2103
01:14:58,850 --> 01:14:59,530
like these.

2104
01:15:00,210 --> 01:15:02,490
You'll get three new users.

2105
01:15:03,230 --> 01:15:04,970
Sure, over the next six months.

2106
01:15:06,750 --> 01:15:08,930
You know, it doesn't have to, I don't

2107
01:15:08,930 --> 01:15:09,970
need a thousand users.

2108
01:15:11,350 --> 01:15:12,210
Amen, brother.

2109
01:15:12,430 --> 01:15:15,990
That is, you know, that's really the thing.

2110
01:15:16,550 --> 01:15:18,050
Scale is overrated.

2111
01:15:19,450 --> 01:15:21,590
There it is, scale is overrated.

2112
01:15:21,810 --> 01:15:22,850
Dave Jones, the pod sage.

2113
01:15:22,870 --> 01:15:24,230
If I could pay all my bills, I'm

2114
01:15:24,230 --> 01:15:24,510
happy.

2115
01:15:25,590 --> 01:15:26,310
Yeah, for real.

2116
01:15:26,410 --> 01:15:29,330
I mean, it comes with a whole set

2117
01:15:29,330 --> 01:15:30,990
of problems that you don't want.

2118
01:15:31,390 --> 01:15:31,590
Yeah.

2119
01:15:31,890 --> 01:15:35,170
Yeah, but not everything needs to grow indefinitely.

2120
01:15:35,710 --> 01:15:36,650
Like that's the trend, right?

2121
01:15:36,690 --> 01:15:38,070
Every company needs to grow.

2122
01:15:38,250 --> 01:15:39,750
We all need a growth mindset.

2123
01:15:40,390 --> 01:15:41,290
I think that's- We don't.

2124
01:15:41,670 --> 01:15:42,650
No, we need quality.

2125
01:15:43,070 --> 01:15:44,650
And if you have quality, you know, things

2126
01:15:44,650 --> 01:15:45,310
will come to you.

2127
01:15:45,310 --> 01:15:47,330
And everything will be okay.

2128
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:50,750
There's a level of customers where life is

2129
01:15:50,750 --> 01:15:51,050
good.

2130
01:15:51,170 --> 01:15:53,250
And there's a level above that at some

2131
01:15:53,250 --> 01:15:56,110
factor where life becomes really something you didn't

2132
01:15:56,110 --> 01:15:56,790
want it to be.

2133
01:15:57,430 --> 01:15:57,910
Yeah.

2134
01:15:57,970 --> 01:16:00,870
And you aim for the sweet spot.

2135
01:16:01,610 --> 01:16:03,130
Not over, not under.

2136
01:16:04,290 --> 01:16:04,810
Yeah, I know.

2137
01:16:04,950 --> 01:16:06,390
So, you know, this is fine.

2138
01:16:07,410 --> 01:16:07,990
It's fine.

2139
01:16:08,110 --> 01:16:08,590
Yeah, exactly.

2140
01:16:09,090 --> 01:16:09,670
It's fine.

2141
01:16:09,850 --> 01:16:11,110
Yeah, no, it's fine.

2142
01:16:12,030 --> 01:16:12,190
Yeah.

2143
01:16:12,730 --> 01:16:15,230
So, yeah, but marketing is a difficult thing.

2144
01:16:15,310 --> 01:16:17,070
You really need to be like an ad

2145
01:16:17,070 --> 01:16:17,630
guy for that.

2146
01:16:17,950 --> 01:16:18,270
I'm not.

2147
01:16:19,690 --> 01:16:20,710
No, we're not either.

2148
01:16:21,070 --> 01:16:23,210
That's, that's, I'm allergic to it.

2149
01:16:23,670 --> 01:16:24,350
I do the same.

2150
01:16:24,430 --> 01:16:25,390
I just do interviews.

2151
01:16:25,570 --> 01:16:26,390
Hey, I got a product.

2152
01:16:26,490 --> 01:16:27,410
You should check it out.

2153
01:16:27,970 --> 01:16:29,290
Put me on your podcast.

2154
01:16:30,290 --> 01:16:31,810
Yeah, but you're famous.

2155
01:16:32,490 --> 01:16:34,410
Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah.

2156
01:16:35,070 --> 01:16:37,730
You know, I did a speech for some

2157
01:16:37,730 --> 01:16:39,770
25-year-olds a couple months ago.

2158
01:16:40,350 --> 01:16:41,650
And, you know, I kind of got my

2159
01:16:41,650 --> 01:16:42,530
stories right.

2160
01:16:43,270 --> 01:16:44,710
You know, my stories from the past.

2161
01:16:44,710 --> 01:16:46,630
And these kids never even seen a music

2162
01:16:46,630 --> 01:16:47,570
video on MTV.

2163
01:16:48,890 --> 01:16:50,290
They see me on Rogan.

2164
01:16:50,530 --> 01:16:51,590
You know, they heard of me there.

2165
01:16:51,810 --> 01:16:52,230
Oh, yeah.

2166
01:16:52,230 --> 01:16:53,970
And I'm like, you know, you know, this

2167
01:16:53,970 --> 01:16:55,730
time with Prince and I can just see

2168
01:16:55,730 --> 01:16:56,050
them all.

2169
01:16:56,170 --> 01:16:56,350
Who?

2170
01:16:57,490 --> 01:16:59,190
They don't even know who Prince is.

2171
01:16:59,390 --> 01:17:00,710
And then I said, Elvis?

2172
01:17:01,110 --> 01:17:01,430
No.

2173
01:17:02,750 --> 01:17:04,690
No, my grandma knows about Elvis.

2174
01:17:04,850 --> 01:17:05,230
Yeah, OK.

2175
01:17:05,390 --> 01:17:05,890
Oh, man.

2176
01:17:06,110 --> 01:17:08,670
Yeah, but I thought Prince, you know, I

2177
01:17:08,670 --> 01:17:10,190
mean, I thought some of that stuff was

2178
01:17:10,190 --> 01:17:10,990
still sticking around.

2179
01:17:11,090 --> 01:17:11,970
No, not at all.

2180
01:17:12,250 --> 01:17:12,770
Not at all.

2181
01:17:13,470 --> 01:17:17,210
So the youngins, they're completely oblivious.

2182
01:17:17,610 --> 01:17:20,810
The youngins, man, it's no good, these youngins.

2183
01:17:21,590 --> 01:17:23,770
Come up here, sit on Uncle Adam's knee.

2184
01:17:23,890 --> 01:17:25,070
I'll tell you what we used to do

2185
01:17:25,070 --> 01:17:26,770
back in the days when we played videos

2186
01:17:26,770 --> 01:17:27,490
on MTV.

2187
01:17:29,150 --> 01:17:31,170
Back before the reality TV show.

2188
01:17:31,350 --> 01:17:31,890
That's right.

2189
01:17:32,190 --> 01:17:32,690
That's right.

2190
01:17:33,470 --> 01:17:36,970
How is Godcaster doing, like, customer-wise?

2191
01:17:37,590 --> 01:17:38,730
Well, thank you for asking.

2192
01:17:38,730 --> 01:17:44,430
We, we're discovering a lot about the potential

2193
01:17:44,430 --> 01:17:45,150
customers.

2194
01:17:45,330 --> 01:17:48,470
We have, I think we're up to 290

2195
01:17:48,470 --> 01:17:51,150
stations and frequencies, but increasingly.

2196
01:17:51,910 --> 01:17:52,070
Nice.

2197
01:17:52,530 --> 01:17:56,970
Yeah, we're seeing, we're seeing churches who, it's

2198
01:17:56,970 --> 01:18:00,590
interesting, the sales cycle for a radio station

2199
01:18:00,590 --> 01:18:03,870
who, it's like, I think they all know

2200
01:18:03,870 --> 01:18:06,130
that digital is where they have to be

2201
01:18:06,130 --> 01:18:07,730
because, you know, we do a mix of

2202
01:18:07,730 --> 01:18:11,450
on-demand and live streaming and, you know,

2203
01:18:11,470 --> 01:18:13,350
so they can put their streams, you know,

2204
01:18:13,350 --> 01:18:15,930
most radio stations on their website have a

2205
01:18:15,930 --> 01:18:18,110
page and there's a button that says, listen

2206
01:18:18,110 --> 01:18:19,730
live, and that's it.

2207
01:18:19,830 --> 01:18:24,730
You know, then they have players, like they'll

2208
01:18:24,730 --> 01:18:27,710
use an RSS.com player, a widget.

2209
01:18:27,990 --> 01:18:29,910
And so, you know, they're losing their actual

2210
01:18:29,910 --> 01:18:30,370
audience.

2211
01:18:30,390 --> 01:18:32,330
They're sending their audience away to go listen

2212
01:18:32,330 --> 01:18:37,030
to these things elsewhere because every single program,

2213
01:18:37,210 --> 01:18:41,130
certainly in the faith-based radio programming, is

2214
01:18:41,130 --> 01:18:45,030
a podcast and, you know, they all, almost

2215
01:18:45,030 --> 01:18:47,530
all exclusively work on a version of Value

2216
01:18:47,530 --> 01:18:48,090
for Value.

2217
01:18:48,210 --> 01:18:51,790
Some of the bigger ones, they charge, okay,

2218
01:18:51,890 --> 01:18:53,750
so it'd be like $5,000 a month

2219
01:18:53,750 --> 01:18:55,110
to be on our airwaves.

2220
01:18:55,730 --> 01:18:58,950
And we're in this point where they all

2221
01:18:58,950 --> 01:19:02,290
know that FM radio in particular, some AMs

2222
01:19:02,290 --> 01:19:04,870
out there still, but FM radio, you know,

2223
01:19:04,930 --> 01:19:06,330
it's going away.

2224
01:19:06,590 --> 01:19:09,090
I mean, obviously it's not going away, but

2225
01:19:09,090 --> 01:19:11,070
people are looking for stuff online.

2226
01:19:12,590 --> 01:19:14,830
And, but it feels like they still want

2227
01:19:14,830 --> 01:19:16,710
to hold on to that FM signal.

2228
01:19:16,930 --> 01:19:18,290
You know, that's the mothership.

2229
01:19:18,810 --> 01:19:21,730
And so the sales cycle can be significantly

2230
01:19:21,730 --> 01:19:24,690
longer where if you say to a pastor

2231
01:19:24,690 --> 01:19:26,510
of a church of, you know, a thousand

2232
01:19:26,510 --> 01:19:28,370
people, hey, I'm going to turn you into

2233
01:19:28,370 --> 01:19:29,710
your local radio station.

2234
01:19:29,710 --> 01:19:30,810
They're like, okay, great.

2235
01:19:30,890 --> 01:19:31,670
Sign me up.

2236
01:19:32,450 --> 01:19:33,970
You know, they get it, even though they

2237
01:19:33,970 --> 01:19:36,050
have no idea what they're doing, which is

2238
01:19:36,050 --> 01:19:37,570
why I built the interface for it.

2239
01:19:39,370 --> 01:19:41,470
They immediately get the concept and they have

2240
01:19:41,470 --> 01:19:43,150
nothing to lose because they have only to

2241
01:19:43,150 --> 01:19:43,530
gain.

2242
01:19:44,070 --> 01:19:45,330
See, that's what's interesting.

2243
01:19:45,490 --> 01:19:49,850
And we're running into, I would say in

2244
01:19:49,850 --> 01:19:53,170
some cases, well, this just can't be good

2245
01:19:53,170 --> 01:19:53,530
enough.

2246
01:19:53,830 --> 01:19:56,850
I mean, this is a relatively small monthly

2247
01:19:56,850 --> 01:20:00,590
charge that we charge them.

2248
01:20:00,590 --> 01:20:03,130
And I think that that actually works to

2249
01:20:03,130 --> 01:20:05,810
our detriment in some ways because to be

2250
01:20:05,810 --> 01:20:06,110
true.

2251
01:20:06,230 --> 01:20:06,650
Yeah.

2252
01:20:06,730 --> 01:20:09,090
You know, like a web company comes in

2253
01:20:09,090 --> 01:20:11,610
and they'll have consultants running around and it's

2254
01:20:11,610 --> 01:20:12,590
all hogwash.

2255
01:20:13,010 --> 01:20:16,870
You know, it's like we've done this, but

2256
01:20:16,870 --> 01:20:19,010
it doesn't work by saying, hey, we've been

2257
01:20:19,010 --> 01:20:21,230
doing this for, you know, for 20 years.

2258
01:20:21,350 --> 01:20:24,310
We understand how this stuff works and we

2259
01:20:24,310 --> 01:20:25,530
understand how it works.

2260
01:20:25,530 --> 01:20:29,450
I mean, there's customers who have built entire

2261
01:20:29,450 --> 01:20:31,110
backend systems.

2262
01:20:31,250 --> 01:20:31,790
It's all legacy.

2263
01:20:31,950 --> 01:20:33,790
And I understand how it came to be,

2264
01:20:33,910 --> 01:20:37,690
where they will download the actual wave file

2265
01:20:37,690 --> 01:20:40,630
from a service to a radio show that

2266
01:20:40,630 --> 01:20:43,630
is freely available on RSS feed as a

2267
01:20:43,630 --> 01:20:45,030
podcast with an MP3.

2268
01:20:45,550 --> 01:20:49,130
They've built data stores and SQL databases just

2269
01:20:49,130 --> 01:20:50,710
to put it on their website.

2270
01:20:51,630 --> 01:20:51,770
Yeah.

2271
01:20:51,870 --> 01:20:53,830
You know, and then, yeah, Dave.

2272
01:20:54,450 --> 01:20:56,370
No, I mean, they built like, they built

2273
01:20:56,370 --> 01:20:58,790
a whole CDN to redistribute something that you

2274
01:20:58,790 --> 01:21:00,490
can get from the source.

2275
01:21:00,930 --> 01:21:02,250
I mean, hundreds, you know, it's got to

2276
01:21:02,250 --> 01:21:04,330
be a thousand dollars a month, at least

2277
01:21:04,330 --> 01:21:07,350
worth easily cloud front cost, you know, just,

2278
01:21:07,510 --> 01:21:07,670
yeah.

2279
01:21:07,870 --> 01:21:10,570
And then the one thing that's been really

2280
01:21:10,570 --> 01:21:14,330
and all props to Dave, because we have,

2281
01:21:14,470 --> 01:21:17,530
we also have a, an embeddable player, web

2282
01:21:17,530 --> 01:21:18,010
player.

2283
01:21:18,650 --> 01:21:19,610
Holy moly.

2284
01:21:19,670 --> 01:21:22,030
The web is such a mess, you know,

2285
01:21:22,030 --> 01:21:22,730
and just horrible.

2286
01:21:22,730 --> 01:21:23,690
Myself as well, yeah.

2287
01:21:23,930 --> 01:21:25,670
Just when we thought we had everything all

2288
01:21:25,670 --> 01:21:27,750
set, you know, a customer comes along, it's

2289
01:21:27,750 --> 01:21:29,210
like, well, it doesn't work on Wix.

2290
01:21:30,110 --> 01:21:30,490
Yeah.

2291
01:21:30,990 --> 01:21:32,730
It's like, whoa, okay.

2292
01:21:33,370 --> 01:21:33,930
They hadn't been there.

2293
01:21:34,270 --> 01:21:36,450
Luckily, Dave is, he sees this as some

2294
01:21:36,450 --> 01:21:38,890
personal challenge, you know, like he's in an

2295
01:21:38,890 --> 01:21:41,550
episode of Kung Fu, like I'm going to

2296
01:21:41,550 --> 01:21:42,510
get this enemy.

2297
01:21:44,570 --> 01:21:45,210
But the web.

2298
01:21:45,230 --> 01:21:46,630
Customized GML elements for the win.

2299
01:21:46,770 --> 01:21:48,770
Yeah, the web is, you know, and the

2300
01:21:48,770 --> 01:21:51,090
worst is if you have a, a customer

2301
01:21:51,090 --> 01:21:54,110
who thinks they know what they're doing, or

2302
01:21:54,110 --> 01:21:56,030
actually kind of knows what they're doing, then

2303
01:21:56,030 --> 01:21:57,610
it gets even worse, you know?

2304
01:21:57,770 --> 01:22:00,370
And well, we've, we've made this color change

2305
01:22:00,370 --> 01:22:00,590
here.

2306
01:22:00,690 --> 01:22:01,530
You click this box.

2307
01:22:01,650 --> 01:22:02,470
Oh, but I was going to do it

2308
01:22:02,470 --> 01:22:05,150
with a style sheet and, you know, and

2309
01:22:05,150 --> 01:22:08,550
a, and a different style CSS property.

2310
01:22:08,550 --> 01:22:10,290
Like, well, you just click this box and

2311
01:22:10,290 --> 01:22:11,650
it turns it into the color you want.

2312
01:22:12,130 --> 01:22:13,550
So it's, it's interesting.

2313
01:22:14,050 --> 01:22:17,190
Customers are very interesting, but I would have

2314
01:22:17,190 --> 01:22:19,650
to say we're having a really good time

2315
01:22:19,650 --> 01:22:20,310
doing this.

2316
01:22:21,170 --> 01:22:21,810
Yeah, it's fun.

2317
01:22:21,810 --> 01:22:24,490
I mean, it's, it's, it's an amazing product

2318
01:22:24,490 --> 01:22:27,070
and how that all fits into the Godcaster

2319
01:22:27,070 --> 01:22:27,470
app.

2320
01:22:27,750 --> 01:22:28,690
I just love it.

2321
01:22:28,770 --> 01:22:30,850
I mean, it's, it's kind of the app

2322
01:22:30,850 --> 01:22:32,910
that I was always saying, you know, create

2323
01:22:32,910 --> 01:22:33,970
an app with an attitude.

2324
01:22:34,430 --> 01:22:36,170
You know, our attitude is Jesus.

2325
01:22:36,410 --> 01:22:37,490
Okay, there it is.

2326
01:22:37,530 --> 01:22:39,290
You get this app, you're going to get

2327
01:22:39,290 --> 01:22:40,310
Jesus content.

2328
01:22:40,790 --> 01:22:42,990
And which can go from, you know, news

2329
01:22:42,990 --> 01:22:45,210
to opinion to all kinds of different things.

2330
01:22:45,730 --> 01:22:48,830
Um, but it's also aggregated by, it has

2331
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:51,830
a lot of 2.0 philosophy in it

2332
01:22:51,830 --> 01:22:56,510
where, uh, you follow a station and the

2333
01:22:56,510 --> 01:22:59,270
station is in a way like a mini

2334
01:22:59,270 --> 01:23:00,130
aggregator.

2335
01:23:00,650 --> 01:23:04,290
Um, it has pod role type, um, of

2336
01:23:04,290 --> 01:23:05,530
properties to it.

2337
01:23:06,170 --> 01:23:08,170
Am I, Dave, how would you, uh, would

2338
01:23:08,170 --> 01:23:09,250
you want to add anything to that?

2339
01:23:09,430 --> 01:23:11,070
Yeah, yeah, that's, I mean, that's right.

2340
01:23:11,070 --> 01:23:14,670
It's complicated because if you're trying to keep

2341
01:23:14,670 --> 01:23:17,230
the station or the church as the center

2342
01:23:17,230 --> 01:23:20,270
of the universe, then you, then it really,

2343
01:23:20,750 --> 01:23:23,390
the programming becomes almost secondary.

2344
01:23:24,150 --> 01:23:25,830
Like if you want to listen to a

2345
01:23:25,830 --> 01:23:30,430
particular show, uh, you don't just go to

2346
01:23:30,430 --> 01:23:30,970
that show.

2347
01:23:31,130 --> 01:23:33,030
You, you have to find a station or

2348
01:23:33,030 --> 01:23:37,030
a church that's, that's publishing that show or

2349
01:23:37,030 --> 01:23:40,950
republishing that show because like, you know, your

2350
01:23:40,950 --> 01:23:43,770
local station, that's where we want to drive

2351
01:23:43,770 --> 01:23:44,010
people.

2352
01:23:44,130 --> 01:23:45,810
We were, I mean, you know, we're all

2353
01:23:45,810 --> 01:23:50,310
about saving radio stations and turning churches into

2354
01:23:50,310 --> 01:23:51,290
new radio stations.

2355
01:23:51,390 --> 01:23:54,970
And so you want to keep people, keep

2356
01:23:54,970 --> 01:23:57,930
audience attached to that radio station.

2357
01:23:58,370 --> 01:24:00,630
And so you, you want to be listening

2358
01:24:00,630 --> 01:24:04,150
to, you don't just say, um, listen to

2359
01:24:04,150 --> 01:24:07,050
a living on the edge, uh, with, you

2360
01:24:07,050 --> 01:24:09,950
know, uh, Chip Ingram, you say living, you

2361
01:24:09,950 --> 01:24:11,390
know, listen to living on the edge with

2362
01:24:11,390 --> 01:24:14,010
Chip, Chip Ingram on WDJC in Birmingham.

2363
01:24:14,790 --> 01:24:15,210
Right.

2364
01:24:15,270 --> 01:24:19,790
So like that's, that's everything becomes show on

2365
01:24:19,790 --> 01:24:22,770
station, this on this, this on this.

2366
01:24:22,790 --> 01:24:24,630
And so there's kind of like a, it's

2367
01:24:24,630 --> 01:24:26,850
kind of like a, um, well, it's like

2368
01:24:26,850 --> 01:24:29,290
the station is the promoter of the programming.

2369
01:24:29,350 --> 01:24:30,290
That's the whole idea.

2370
01:24:30,830 --> 01:24:33,150
And, and now they can mix in local

2371
01:24:33,150 --> 01:24:37,170
content, like hyper-local content, um, from someone

2372
01:24:37,170 --> 01:24:39,910
in their church or the church, the pastor's

2373
01:24:39,910 --> 01:24:42,690
podcast can be on the associated radio station.

2374
01:24:42,690 --> 01:24:45,510
And it turns out listeners enjoy that a

2375
01:24:45,510 --> 01:24:45,690
lot.

2376
01:24:45,810 --> 01:24:47,330
They want to be told what to listen

2377
01:24:47,330 --> 01:24:50,370
to, you know, and podcasting has never had

2378
01:24:50,370 --> 01:24:51,210
the real discussion.

2379
01:24:51,350 --> 01:24:54,570
You have your podcast pulse, uh, but that's,

2380
01:24:54,610 --> 01:24:58,030
that's a one example in an ocean of

2381
01:24:58,030 --> 01:24:59,350
any app doing that.

2382
01:24:59,350 --> 01:25:02,710
And it turns out that people really just

2383
01:25:02,710 --> 01:25:05,030
want to be told, oh, okay, here's some

2384
01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:05,570
good shows.

2385
01:25:05,650 --> 01:25:06,590
I'll listen to that.

2386
01:25:06,950 --> 01:25:11,310
They're, they're not necessarily seeking out for something

2387
01:25:11,310 --> 01:25:11,830
new.

2388
01:25:13,350 --> 01:25:16,070
It's one thing that's interesting, Barry, is that

2389
01:25:16,070 --> 01:25:18,290
when Adam created the channel stream thing, where

2390
01:25:18,290 --> 01:25:21,310
you, where it takes all the, all the

2391
01:25:21,310 --> 01:25:25,650
episodes that you're, um, that you're publishing and

2392
01:25:25,650 --> 01:25:27,290
puts them into a continuous stream.

2393
01:25:27,290 --> 01:25:29,370
So it's like listening to a radio station,

2394
01:25:29,490 --> 01:25:31,930
a live stream, and it's been a really

2395
01:25:31,930 --> 01:25:34,710
interesting experience to listen to that.

2396
01:25:35,830 --> 01:25:38,910
And you, you feel we've all gotten used

2397
01:25:38,910 --> 01:25:42,210
to having total control in the on-demand

2398
01:25:42,210 --> 01:25:44,590
world where we can listen to whatever we

2399
01:25:44,590 --> 01:25:45,570
want at any time.

2400
01:25:45,810 --> 01:25:48,670
And when you go back to this sort

2401
01:25:48,670 --> 01:25:50,910
of radio experience where you don't have any

2402
01:25:50,910 --> 01:25:54,970
control, where you're tuning into a stream and

2403
01:25:54,970 --> 01:25:57,270
it's just playing something, even if it's stuff

2404
01:25:57,270 --> 01:25:59,310
that you like, it's stuff you're subscribed to.

2405
01:25:59,490 --> 01:26:00,590
You drop into the stream.

2406
01:26:00,850 --> 01:26:00,990
Yes.

2407
01:26:01,130 --> 01:26:01,730
And just, yes.

2408
01:26:01,890 --> 01:26:03,150
This is like, hey, what's this?

2409
01:26:03,250 --> 01:26:05,390
This is exactly what Tom Webster was talking

2410
01:26:05,390 --> 01:26:07,050
about when we had him in the boardroom.

2411
01:26:07,730 --> 01:26:10,210
And part of that came from that conversation.

2412
01:26:11,030 --> 01:26:13,370
And so more often, because we have, so

2413
01:26:13,370 --> 01:26:15,130
I have Hello Fred, which is our music

2414
01:26:15,130 --> 01:26:18,170
station here for Fredericksburg and has promos for

2415
01:26:18,170 --> 01:26:20,310
podcasts that are highlighted by the church.

2416
01:26:21,750 --> 01:26:25,070
And then we have Bridge Church Radio, which

2417
01:26:25,070 --> 01:26:28,550
is those podcasts and they're just playing on

2418
01:26:28,550 --> 01:26:28,890
a loop.

2419
01:26:28,990 --> 01:26:32,610
The most recent one plays and the algorithm

2420
01:26:32,610 --> 01:26:34,290
is very simple, but it actually works really

2421
01:26:34,290 --> 01:26:34,550
nice.

2422
01:26:34,590 --> 01:26:35,970
And very often I'll be in the car

2423
01:26:35,970 --> 01:26:38,070
and I'm like, oh, I've heard this song

2424
01:26:38,070 --> 01:26:39,470
and I'll go to Bridge Church Radio and

2425
01:26:39,470 --> 01:26:41,570
I hear like, oh, this is my neighbor,

2426
01:26:41,730 --> 01:26:42,290
Laura Logan.

2427
01:26:42,430 --> 01:26:44,930
And she has a really interesting guest and

2428
01:26:44,930 --> 01:26:46,530
I'll just drop right in the middle of

2429
01:26:46,530 --> 01:26:47,630
it and I have a choice.

2430
01:26:47,630 --> 01:26:49,670
I can just sit there and continue to

2431
01:26:49,670 --> 01:26:51,670
listen from where I dropped in, which is

2432
01:26:51,670 --> 01:26:53,990
pretty much happens 80% of the time.

2433
01:26:53,990 --> 01:26:56,490
Or if it's really good, I can follow

2434
01:26:56,490 --> 01:27:00,030
that program back to the station or back

2435
01:27:00,030 --> 01:27:02,130
to the program itself and then see that

2436
01:27:02,130 --> 01:27:03,750
episode and all the other episodes.

2437
01:27:03,910 --> 01:27:05,330
So you can kind of, you get your

2438
01:27:05,330 --> 01:27:08,670
serendipity of discovery, but then you can also

2439
01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:10,430
go back and start over and listen from

2440
01:27:10,430 --> 01:27:10,970
the beginning.

2441
01:27:12,230 --> 01:27:14,510
But that, and you can see it happening

2442
01:27:14,510 --> 01:27:16,250
because of course I see all the IceCast

2443
01:27:16,250 --> 01:27:20,510
servers and you literally see people listening to

2444
01:27:20,510 --> 01:27:22,210
something and then you see him stop and

2445
01:27:22,210 --> 01:27:24,210
you see him go and play the episode.

2446
01:27:25,190 --> 01:27:27,370
So it's a great discovery mechanism.

2447
01:27:27,730 --> 01:27:28,010
It's interesting.

2448
01:27:28,210 --> 01:27:31,870
It's almost like it's not the same, but

2449
01:27:31,870 --> 01:27:36,390
it's similar to the experience that you get

2450
01:27:36,390 --> 01:27:38,130
going from when you're listening to one and

2451
01:27:38,130 --> 01:27:39,590
a half speed going back to one X

2452
01:27:39,590 --> 01:27:39,890
speed.

2453
01:27:40,310 --> 01:27:44,710
You feel like you're giving up control and

2454
01:27:44,710 --> 01:27:47,930
there's this initial sense of like loss and

2455
01:27:47,930 --> 01:27:52,650
disappointment and irritation, but then you accustomed to

2456
01:27:52,650 --> 01:27:52,890
it.

2457
01:27:53,470 --> 01:27:55,830
And now all of a sudden you feel

2458
01:27:55,830 --> 01:28:00,310
like you're getting a better, you're getting something

2459
01:28:00,310 --> 01:28:00,830
valuable.

2460
01:28:01,130 --> 01:28:01,330
Yes.

2461
01:28:01,530 --> 01:28:02,790
I won't say that it's better.

2462
01:28:02,910 --> 01:28:04,610
You're just getting something valuable out of it.

2463
01:28:04,650 --> 01:28:07,390
It's great because I'll tune into your stream

2464
01:28:07,390 --> 01:28:11,870
KDEV and I'll get like, you know, it'll

2465
01:28:11,870 --> 01:28:17,190
vary from Bill Maher, which I don't necessarily

2466
01:28:17,190 --> 01:28:18,830
go and seek out, but I'll drop in

2467
01:28:18,830 --> 01:28:19,990
the middle like, oh, that's interesting.

2468
01:28:20,350 --> 01:28:22,790
Or maybe Grace Bayou radio, which sounds like

2469
01:28:22,790 --> 01:28:23,750
it's from 1930.

2470
01:28:26,490 --> 01:28:28,850
But it's really, we've built, what we're doing

2471
01:28:28,850 --> 01:28:32,770
here is radio re-imagined.

2472
01:28:32,810 --> 01:28:33,650
Re-imagined.

2473
01:28:33,850 --> 01:28:35,290
Re-imagined.

2474
01:28:36,670 --> 01:28:37,190
Nice.

2475
01:28:37,370 --> 01:28:38,010
That's what we're doing.

2476
01:28:40,130 --> 01:28:40,970
That's what we're doing.

2477
01:28:40,970 --> 01:28:42,790
So Dave, are you going to be able

2478
01:28:42,790 --> 01:28:44,090
to quit your day job?

2479
01:28:44,690 --> 01:28:45,290
Oh Lord.

2480
01:28:46,050 --> 01:28:46,530
No.

2481
01:28:47,110 --> 01:28:48,610
Have I told you that we start every

2482
01:28:48,610 --> 01:28:50,710
meeting with prayer about this, Barry?

2483
01:28:52,830 --> 01:28:53,310
No.

2484
01:28:54,830 --> 01:28:55,590
Not yet.

2485
01:28:55,990 --> 01:28:56,410
Not yet.

2486
01:28:56,490 --> 01:28:56,830
Not yet.

2487
01:28:56,970 --> 01:28:57,510
Not yet.

2488
01:28:58,810 --> 01:29:00,730
No one's quitting their day job yet.

2489
01:29:01,190 --> 01:29:02,430
But that, that would be nice.

2490
01:29:02,590 --> 01:29:04,850
But we're, I think we have different reasons

2491
01:29:04,850 --> 01:29:06,390
for doing it, actually.

2492
01:29:06,430 --> 01:29:06,690
Yeah.

2493
01:29:06,690 --> 01:29:07,290
Yeah.

2494
01:29:07,370 --> 01:29:08,350
I'm not too worried about that.

2495
01:29:08,590 --> 01:29:08,710
Yeah.

2496
01:29:09,450 --> 01:29:10,510
Hey, wow.

2497
01:29:10,910 --> 01:29:12,730
Did we already yap for an hour and

2498
01:29:12,730 --> 01:29:12,990
a half?

2499
01:29:13,090 --> 01:29:15,270
Let's thank some people because Dave has to

2500
01:29:15,270 --> 01:29:16,750
get back to his actual day job, which

2501
01:29:16,750 --> 01:29:17,950
maybe, is it calmer now?

2502
01:29:18,050 --> 01:29:20,070
Did everyone just not come into the office

2503
01:29:20,070 --> 01:29:21,670
today now that it's the 17th?

2504
01:29:21,670 --> 01:29:22,730
No, it's a ghost town.

2505
01:29:22,930 --> 01:29:23,450
Oh, beautiful.

2506
01:29:23,850 --> 01:29:24,090
Beautiful.

2507
01:29:25,130 --> 01:29:25,890
Let's see.

2508
01:29:26,090 --> 01:29:27,610
Triple seven from Salty Crayon.

2509
01:29:27,710 --> 01:29:29,350
He says, I came for the audio, stayed

2510
01:29:29,350 --> 01:29:30,010
for the value.

2511
01:29:30,270 --> 01:29:31,830
Audio is king in the pipe.

2512
01:29:31,830 --> 01:29:32,450
Yeah.

2513
01:29:33,790 --> 01:29:36,770
Martin Linjeskoog sent 420 sats.

2514
01:29:37,950 --> 01:29:39,590
A Dutch 420 boost.

2515
01:29:39,730 --> 01:29:41,810
Barry, how is the internet connection at the

2516
01:29:41,810 --> 01:29:42,790
coffee shop in Amsterdam?

2517
01:29:43,430 --> 01:29:45,610
We will have a beer at Het Amsterdammerche

2518
01:29:45,610 --> 01:29:47,510
in Gothenburg someday.

2519
01:29:48,670 --> 01:29:51,810
Is there an actual coffee shop in Gothenburg

2520
01:29:51,810 --> 01:29:53,310
called the Het Amsterdammerche?

2521
01:29:54,330 --> 01:29:55,030
I guess.

2522
01:29:55,090 --> 01:29:55,430
I don't know.

2523
01:29:55,510 --> 01:29:56,170
That's interesting.

2524
01:29:57,790 --> 01:29:59,690
Chad F with the triple seven, heard that

2525
01:29:59,690 --> 01:30:00,470
come in earlier.

2526
01:30:00,470 --> 01:30:02,030
And I hit the delimiter.

2527
01:30:02,350 --> 01:30:03,850
So take it away, Dave.

2528
01:30:04,530 --> 01:30:05,270
Oh, I guess.

2529
01:30:05,650 --> 01:30:05,870
Let's see.

2530
01:30:05,930 --> 01:30:09,110
We got no one-off PayPals.

2531
01:30:10,050 --> 01:30:12,490
But we did get some monthlies.

2532
01:30:12,650 --> 01:30:13,870
I think people are broke.

2533
01:30:15,430 --> 01:30:17,950
Well, you know, we didn't even talk about

2534
01:30:17,950 --> 01:30:22,050
the ridiculous economic stuff that's happening right now.

2535
01:30:22,210 --> 01:30:23,190
I mean, yeah.

2536
01:30:24,270 --> 01:30:26,050
What's the ridiculous economic stuff?

2537
01:30:26,070 --> 01:30:27,290
That nobody can afford anything?

2538
01:30:27,490 --> 01:30:28,130
Is that what you're talking about?

2539
01:30:28,130 --> 01:30:33,530
I mean, gold is $4,400 an ounce.

2540
01:30:33,550 --> 01:30:34,590
That's amazing.

2541
01:30:35,670 --> 01:30:38,690
And I mean, Bitcoin crashed hard.

2542
01:30:39,110 --> 01:30:40,630
Oh, that's fine.

2543
01:30:40,970 --> 01:30:41,510
Nothing's new.

2544
01:30:42,690 --> 01:30:43,630
Nothing's new.

2545
01:30:43,790 --> 01:30:46,830
We've seen 30% drawbacks in bull markets.

2546
01:30:47,230 --> 01:30:47,850
So that's typical.

2547
01:30:47,850 --> 01:30:47,950
Oh, sure.

2548
01:30:48,550 --> 01:30:53,670
But it's why people take money off the

2549
01:30:53,670 --> 01:30:55,750
table and are piling into gold.

2550
01:30:55,750 --> 01:31:00,670
Because usually they go up together, you know.

2551
01:31:00,730 --> 01:31:02,870
Wasn't Tether buying gold?

2552
01:31:03,910 --> 01:31:04,970
Oh, they're everybody.

2553
01:31:05,470 --> 01:31:07,490
Well, I was on the Gun, Goats, and

2554
01:31:07,490 --> 01:31:11,330
Gold podcast earlier this week with Tom Luongo,

2555
01:31:11,550 --> 01:31:12,590
who I respect a lot.

2556
01:31:13,230 --> 01:31:14,990
And his theory was very interesting.

2557
01:31:15,630 --> 01:31:18,170
He says, because of the nature of gold,

2558
01:31:18,850 --> 01:31:21,430
and obviously it's not easy to ship around

2559
01:31:21,430 --> 01:31:21,930
the globe.

2560
01:31:22,050 --> 01:31:23,270
There's all kinds of issues with that.

2561
01:31:24,030 --> 01:31:26,690
He believes that right now the US and

2562
01:31:26,690 --> 01:31:30,330
China are in a coordinated tug of war

2563
01:31:30,330 --> 01:31:34,230
to actually tap the price of gold up

2564
01:31:34,230 --> 01:31:35,610
to, I think he said, $15,000 or

2565
01:31:35,610 --> 01:31:37,430
$16,000 is what he expects.

2566
01:31:38,350 --> 01:31:40,390
And it's literally like, well, we're going to

2567
01:31:40,390 --> 01:31:41,990
do a 500% tariff.

2568
01:31:42,130 --> 01:31:43,650
Well, we're going to tax you.

2569
01:31:43,750 --> 01:31:45,670
We're going to export restrictions on rare earth.

2570
01:31:45,710 --> 01:31:46,810
And oh, we're going to do this, we're

2571
01:31:46,810 --> 01:31:47,030
going to do that.

2572
01:31:47,290 --> 01:31:48,230
And it's back and forth.

2573
01:31:48,230 --> 01:31:49,650
If you look at the timing of President

2574
01:31:49,650 --> 01:31:55,030
Trump's social posts, it's always like just either

2575
01:31:55,030 --> 01:31:57,550
an hour before the market opens or an

2576
01:31:57,550 --> 01:31:58,710
hour after it closes.

2577
01:31:59,110 --> 01:32:00,010
He knows what he's doing.

2578
01:32:00,550 --> 01:32:02,310
And it would not surprise me if we're

2579
01:32:02,310 --> 01:32:04,810
in total cahoots and it's over gold.

2580
01:32:04,930 --> 01:32:09,910
Because obviously the US, supposedly, I'm still waiting

2581
01:32:09,910 --> 01:32:11,970
for Elon to show me the live cam

2582
01:32:11,970 --> 01:32:12,650
of Fort Knox.

2583
01:32:13,410 --> 01:32:17,090
Supposedly, we have 800,000 tons of gold.

2584
01:32:17,610 --> 01:32:18,990
I believe it when I see it.

2585
01:32:19,150 --> 01:32:20,870
Valued at $42 an ounce.

2586
01:32:21,010 --> 01:32:22,330
That's what is on the balance sheet.

2587
01:32:22,410 --> 01:32:25,390
But if it's $15,000, and then you

2588
01:32:25,390 --> 01:32:27,630
say, OK, we're going to just change this

2589
01:32:27,630 --> 01:32:29,210
number here to what the gold is really

2590
01:32:29,210 --> 01:32:29,570
worth.

2591
01:32:29,590 --> 01:32:30,250
Then guess what?

2592
01:32:30,290 --> 01:32:34,710
All of a sudden, our debt almost gets

2593
01:32:34,710 --> 01:32:35,250
wiped out.

2594
01:32:36,670 --> 01:32:38,290
Well, have you seen, I mean, gold is

2595
01:32:38,290 --> 01:32:38,670
one thing.

2596
01:32:38,830 --> 01:32:39,190
Silver.

2597
01:32:39,710 --> 01:32:40,270
I know.

2598
01:32:40,670 --> 01:32:42,430
Silver is to the moon.

2599
01:32:42,710 --> 01:32:45,390
I mean, it's like, didn't it touch 50?

2600
01:32:45,590 --> 01:32:45,990
Yes.

2601
01:32:45,990 --> 01:32:48,850
Someone gave me, had an instant night donation

2602
01:32:48,850 --> 01:32:49,490
at the meetup.

2603
01:32:49,570 --> 01:32:51,850
It was a bag full of gold coins,

2604
01:32:51,970 --> 01:32:53,110
of silver coins.

2605
01:32:54,250 --> 01:32:55,890
I mean, like it's outrageous.

2606
01:32:55,970 --> 01:32:56,630
Silver is outrageous.

2607
01:32:56,810 --> 01:33:00,110
I mean, and the silver, the gold silver

2608
01:33:00,110 --> 01:33:01,750
ratio got up like, I think it was

2609
01:33:01,750 --> 01:33:03,290
like 100 or more.

2610
01:33:04,350 --> 01:33:06,710
And now it's back down below 80 or

2611
01:33:06,710 --> 01:33:07,550
right around 80.

2612
01:33:09,030 --> 01:33:11,570
Yeah, it's pretty wild.

2613
01:33:11,770 --> 01:33:14,110
I mean, I would think, I agree with

2614
01:33:14,110 --> 01:33:14,670
Jeff Snyder.

2615
01:33:14,670 --> 01:33:17,110
I think this is a deflation.

2616
01:33:17,310 --> 01:33:19,010
That's the economy guy.

2617
01:33:20,170 --> 01:33:20,930
What's his name?

2618
01:33:21,090 --> 01:33:21,650
The euro dollar guy.

2619
01:33:21,670 --> 01:33:22,830
Euro dollar guy, yeah.

2620
01:33:23,010 --> 01:33:24,910
I think this is a deflation signal.

2621
01:33:25,110 --> 01:33:28,490
I don't think it's an inflation thing that's

2622
01:33:28,490 --> 01:33:28,590
happening.

2623
01:33:28,750 --> 01:33:28,950
I don't think so either.

2624
01:33:29,370 --> 01:33:31,550
Yeah, I don't think that's the case.

2625
01:33:32,310 --> 01:33:34,650
Just hold assets that are not fiat money.

2626
01:33:34,930 --> 01:33:37,330
$54.33 silver right now.

2627
01:33:37,410 --> 01:33:40,950
$54.33. Yeah, you're right.

2628
01:33:41,010 --> 01:33:41,290
You're right.

2629
01:33:41,290 --> 01:33:45,590
Because I mean, gold is not ledger money.

2630
01:33:46,170 --> 01:33:46,630
No.

2631
01:33:46,730 --> 01:33:47,030
It's just not.

2632
01:33:47,090 --> 01:33:48,470
I mean, that's not the way it functions

2633
01:33:48,470 --> 01:33:48,930
anymore.

2634
01:33:49,410 --> 01:33:52,070
It is an alternative store of value.

2635
01:33:52,550 --> 01:33:54,470
And I don't think it's a risk hedge

2636
01:33:54,470 --> 01:33:54,810
either.

2637
01:33:55,450 --> 01:33:57,290
I mean, not a risk, but an inflation

2638
01:33:57,290 --> 01:33:57,850
hedge.

2639
01:33:58,070 --> 01:33:58,210
No.

2640
01:33:58,330 --> 01:34:00,610
I think it's purely an alternative investment.

2641
01:34:00,750 --> 01:34:03,830
And I think people are getting spooked by

2642
01:34:03,830 --> 01:34:05,670
the equities markets.

2643
01:34:06,090 --> 01:34:08,150
They're starting to ease out of that thing

2644
01:34:08,150 --> 01:34:10,090
because the AI bubble looks like it's.

2645
01:34:10,090 --> 01:34:12,410
Oh, it's got years to go.

2646
01:34:12,570 --> 01:34:14,250
I think it's got years to go still.

2647
01:34:15,290 --> 01:34:18,250
If the deflation stuff hits hard, I think

2648
01:34:18,250 --> 01:34:20,170
people are going to just fly to the,

2649
01:34:20,510 --> 01:34:22,190
just going to fly out of that stuff.

2650
01:34:22,330 --> 01:34:24,670
Well, the Bitcoin thing is obvious because if

2651
01:34:24,670 --> 01:34:27,190
an hour after the markets close, you say,

2652
01:34:27,290 --> 01:34:29,110
oh, China, we're going to put 100%

2653
01:34:29,110 --> 01:34:30,030
tariffs on you.

2654
01:34:30,470 --> 01:34:32,430
There's only one market that's open.

2655
01:34:33,730 --> 01:34:34,890
You're like, you want to cash in?

2656
01:34:34,930 --> 01:34:36,130
You can't cash in gold.

2657
01:34:36,730 --> 01:34:37,850
You cash in your Bitcoin.

2658
01:34:40,310 --> 01:34:43,390
But the crash continued, even though, even into

2659
01:34:43,390 --> 01:34:44,170
the equity market.

2660
01:34:44,330 --> 01:34:45,930
Well, of course, everybody's selling.

2661
01:34:46,190 --> 01:34:47,570
Of course, weak hands.

2662
01:34:47,870 --> 01:34:49,450
Where's your diamond hands, people?

2663
01:34:52,070 --> 01:34:53,190
Where's your diamond hands?

2664
01:34:53,790 --> 01:34:54,570
Come on.

2665
01:34:55,850 --> 01:34:58,130
See, C-Loss on Linux has diamond hands.

2666
01:34:59,290 --> 01:35:00,750
2222 through Fountain.

2667
01:35:00,910 --> 01:35:03,010
He says, as a Rodecaster Duo owner, I

2668
01:35:03,010 --> 01:35:05,570
disliked Daniel saying that today, just plug and

2669
01:35:05,570 --> 01:35:06,870
play and things just work.

2670
01:35:07,890 --> 01:35:09,130
Yes, I agree.

2671
01:35:09,230 --> 01:35:10,270
I disliked that too.

2672
01:35:10,430 --> 01:35:10,850
It's true.

2673
01:35:11,090 --> 01:35:11,250
Yeah.

2674
01:35:11,350 --> 01:35:11,530
Yeah.

2675
01:35:11,610 --> 01:35:13,590
Barry experienced that before the show.

2676
01:35:14,570 --> 01:35:16,430
C-Loss coming in hot again.

2677
01:35:16,910 --> 01:35:17,390
5432.

2678
01:35:17,470 --> 01:35:20,590
He says, the FFPMEG thing reminded me of

2679
01:35:20,590 --> 01:35:21,910
what I did about a year ago.

2680
01:35:22,310 --> 01:35:24,910
I had a command line tool using FFMPEG

2681
01:35:24,910 --> 01:35:27,030
to turn a YouTube or Twitch live stream

2682
01:35:27,030 --> 01:35:28,950
into a live Icecast MP3 stream.

2683
01:35:29,190 --> 01:35:31,310
I wanted to build an easier tool to

2684
01:35:31,310 --> 01:35:34,150
stream in RSS myself, but then decided that

2685
01:35:34,150 --> 01:35:36,210
there weren't any good RSS live listening apps

2686
01:35:36,210 --> 01:35:37,110
or websites yet.

2687
01:35:37,530 --> 01:35:41,470
Started bouncepad.live, which is bad and semi

2688
01:35:41,470 --> 01:35:42,330
-abandoned now.

2689
01:35:42,650 --> 01:35:44,070
So I'm left with kind of nothing.

2690
01:35:44,250 --> 01:35:46,230
Does anyone have any motivation tips?

2691
01:35:47,070 --> 01:35:48,790
So what does he actually want?

2692
01:35:49,510 --> 01:35:50,530
Motivation tips.

2693
01:35:51,170 --> 01:35:52,430
For what though?

2694
01:35:52,930 --> 01:35:56,010
He wants us to motivate him to get

2695
01:35:56,010 --> 01:35:57,070
back to work on his project.

2696
01:35:57,070 --> 01:35:58,230
Well, bouncepad.

2697
01:35:58,850 --> 01:36:02,630
This, by the way, I've been, oh, interesting.

2698
01:36:03,110 --> 01:36:05,550
I've been trying to, you know, to do

2699
01:36:05,550 --> 01:36:08,510
all kinds of conversions from YouTube to audio.

2700
01:36:08,970 --> 01:36:12,510
And I mean, it's, YouTube really doesn't want

2701
01:36:12,510 --> 01:36:13,230
you doing that.

2702
01:36:14,990 --> 01:36:17,010
It's really a cat and mouse game that

2703
01:36:17,010 --> 01:36:18,530
is just not worth it.

2704
01:36:19,330 --> 01:36:19,450
No.

2705
01:36:19,670 --> 01:36:21,010
It's so hard to do.

2706
01:36:21,110 --> 01:36:22,730
They keep changing things.

2707
01:36:22,870 --> 01:36:26,350
And I wonder how all these, like Podbean.

2708
01:36:26,350 --> 01:36:30,630
Podbean has a convert your YouTube channel to

2709
01:36:30,630 --> 01:36:31,970
an MP3 podcast.

2710
01:36:32,430 --> 01:36:32,790
Oh yeah.

2711
01:36:33,790 --> 01:36:34,310
Yeah.

2712
01:36:34,750 --> 01:36:35,430
I wonder how.

2713
01:36:35,730 --> 01:36:35,830
Tell us.

2714
01:36:36,150 --> 01:36:37,130
Get to work.

2715
01:36:37,770 --> 01:36:38,030
Yeah.

2716
01:36:38,190 --> 01:36:38,430
Yeah.

2717
01:36:38,490 --> 01:36:39,330
Get to work, man.

2718
01:36:39,530 --> 01:36:41,470
Get off your lazy butt and do some

2719
01:36:41,470 --> 01:36:41,790
code.

2720
01:36:44,290 --> 01:36:45,690
The Ugly Quacking Duck.

2721
01:36:45,770 --> 01:36:48,970
That's Bruce2222 through Podcast Guru.

2722
01:36:49,270 --> 01:36:50,770
He says, one of the reasons I enjoy

2723
01:36:50,770 --> 01:36:53,030
the show is it displays life.

2724
01:36:53,410 --> 01:36:55,110
It is not about a stagnated thing.

2725
01:36:55,110 --> 01:36:57,830
It encompasses much talk and change, which to

2726
01:36:57,830 --> 01:36:58,750
me shows life.

2727
01:36:59,170 --> 01:37:00,530
I'm glad to be part of something that

2728
01:37:00,530 --> 01:37:01,170
is still growing.

2729
01:37:01,310 --> 01:37:02,550
Thank you, Adam and Dave, for the new

2730
01:37:02,550 --> 01:37:02,910
episode.

2731
01:37:03,150 --> 01:37:05,230
Always enjoy the guests that prove it also.

2732
01:37:05,470 --> 01:37:06,330
Thank you, Daniel J.

2733
01:37:06,430 --> 01:37:07,010
Lewis, 73.

2734
01:37:07,530 --> 01:37:09,290
And I will say that it's.

2735
01:37:09,330 --> 01:37:09,710
Thank you, Bruce.

2736
01:37:10,110 --> 01:37:11,310
You know, we knew this.

2737
01:37:11,410 --> 01:37:13,850
We knew coming into this that all this

2738
01:37:13,850 --> 01:37:14,790
stuff takes time.

2739
01:37:15,110 --> 01:37:17,390
And here we are in our sixth year,

2740
01:37:17,430 --> 01:37:18,730
I think, fifth or sixth year.

2741
01:37:19,070 --> 01:37:21,510
And stuff's coming, you know, stuff's coming.

2742
01:37:22,390 --> 01:37:25,550
Chapters will be coming to podcast, to Apple

2743
01:37:25,550 --> 01:37:26,010
podcast.

2744
01:37:26,630 --> 01:37:28,710
We've got, you know, we've got all kinds

2745
01:37:28,710 --> 01:37:31,330
of new, innovative, or as they say in

2746
01:37:31,330 --> 01:37:35,370
Europe, innovative hosting companies and different types of

2747
01:37:35,370 --> 01:37:35,790
apps.

2748
01:37:35,890 --> 01:37:37,170
There's still more coming.

2749
01:37:37,430 --> 01:37:39,770
So it's I feel very bullish.

2750
01:37:39,910 --> 01:37:41,810
Now, if you're if you're in this for

2751
01:37:41,810 --> 01:37:44,810
the podcast industrial complex money making machine, yeah,

2752
01:37:44,830 --> 01:37:46,250
I can see where you might be a

2753
01:37:46,250 --> 01:37:46,970
little discouraged.

2754
01:37:47,650 --> 01:37:50,970
Yeah, then then you just punt and and

2755
01:37:50,970 --> 01:37:52,470
produce 3000 episodes a week.

2756
01:37:52,550 --> 01:37:53,190
And they ask a lot.

2757
01:37:53,990 --> 01:37:54,390
Exactly.

2758
01:37:54,430 --> 01:37:55,110
Problem solved.

2759
01:37:55,270 --> 01:37:55,910
Yes, exactly.

2760
01:37:56,090 --> 01:37:58,250
Like we said before, the goal is just

2761
01:37:58,250 --> 01:37:59,050
stay in the game.

2762
01:37:59,210 --> 01:38:00,110
Yeah, exactly.

2763
01:38:00,270 --> 01:38:01,170
And we're staying in it.

2764
01:38:01,210 --> 01:38:02,570
We're staying in it for sure.

2765
01:38:02,730 --> 01:38:06,370
Comma Strip blogger, The Delimiter 14190 through Fountain.

2766
01:38:06,490 --> 01:38:07,670
He says, Howdy, Dave and Adam.

2767
01:38:08,230 --> 01:38:10,990
Are you bored of tech podcasts from Leo's

2768
01:38:10,990 --> 01:38:11,450
LLC?

2769
01:38:12,010 --> 01:38:15,150
Then subscribe to podcast called Two and a

2770
01:38:15,150 --> 01:38:20,350
Half Bens available at www.twoandahalfbens.com.

2771
01:38:20,450 --> 01:38:24,010
A podcast about AI and other tech by

2772
01:38:24,010 --> 01:38:26,710
Bim Rose, the ruler of No Agenda Stream.

2773
01:38:27,230 --> 01:38:30,250
And by Phone Boy, the infosec super expert

2774
01:38:30,250 --> 01:38:32,910
and his Polish American girlfriend, Phoenix.

2775
01:38:33,410 --> 01:38:36,490
Yo, CSB, the AI arch wizard.

2776
01:38:37,150 --> 01:38:39,730
Ooh, throwing down the gauntlet.

2777
01:38:40,290 --> 01:38:42,470
I'm going to say that arch wizard was

2778
01:38:42,470 --> 01:38:43,630
a bad choice of words.

2779
01:38:43,770 --> 01:38:45,350
It should be arch mage.

2780
01:38:45,830 --> 01:38:47,070
Now, that's even cooler.

2781
01:38:49,650 --> 01:38:52,290
OK, only only just a just a little

2782
01:38:52,290 --> 01:38:52,830
tweak there.

2783
01:38:53,190 --> 01:38:53,630
Monthly's.

2784
01:38:53,690 --> 01:38:55,270
We got Terry Keller, five dollars.

2785
01:38:55,430 --> 01:38:55,790
Thank you.

2786
01:38:55,970 --> 01:38:57,850
Silicone Florist, ten dollars.

2787
01:38:58,330 --> 01:38:59,010
Thank you, Silicone.

2788
01:38:59,550 --> 01:39:00,870
Chris Cowan, five dollars.

2789
01:39:01,810 --> 01:39:02,630
Paul Saltzman.

2790
01:39:02,770 --> 01:39:03,230
Hey, Paul.

2791
01:39:03,450 --> 01:39:04,870
Twenty two dollars and twenty two cents.

2792
01:39:05,010 --> 01:39:05,390
Derek J.

2793
01:39:05,510 --> 01:39:07,070
Viscar, the best name in podcasting.

2794
01:39:07,090 --> 01:39:07,910
Twenty one dollars.

2795
01:39:08,770 --> 01:39:10,710
Damon Casajak, fifteen dollars.

2796
01:39:11,710 --> 01:39:13,250
Jeremy Gertz, five dollars.

2797
01:39:13,390 --> 01:39:15,510
Michael Hall, five dollars and fifty cents.

2798
01:39:15,930 --> 01:39:17,330
Gene Liverman, five dollars.

2799
01:39:17,470 --> 01:39:19,210
And Timothy Voice, ten dollars.

2800
01:39:20,070 --> 01:39:20,550
Wow.

2801
01:39:20,730 --> 01:39:21,890
Thank you all very much.

2802
01:39:21,990 --> 01:39:24,690
We appreciate the value you send back for

2803
01:39:24,690 --> 01:39:26,170
the value that we bring with the podcast

2804
01:39:26,170 --> 01:39:28,090
index, which is a completely open project.

2805
01:39:28,330 --> 01:39:29,490
Podcast index on social.

2806
01:39:29,690 --> 01:39:31,650
If you want to follow us over there

2807
01:39:31,650 --> 01:39:33,470
on the Mastodon or if you need an

2808
01:39:33,470 --> 01:39:34,730
account, hit us up.

2809
01:39:34,770 --> 01:39:36,830
We'll certainly give you an account.

2810
01:39:37,250 --> 01:39:39,210
It's not to just promote your podcast, but

2811
01:39:39,210 --> 01:39:42,310
to participate in in this grand project.

2812
01:39:42,430 --> 01:39:43,850
And a lot of people who started are

2813
01:39:43,850 --> 01:39:44,390
still here.

2814
01:39:44,570 --> 01:39:45,990
And I think we'll be really proud that

2815
01:39:45,990 --> 01:39:47,810
we have not had any big blow ups.

2816
01:39:47,910 --> 01:39:48,690
There's no forks.

2817
01:39:48,810 --> 01:39:50,330
Everyone kind of still loves each other.

2818
01:39:50,670 --> 01:39:51,550
No forks.

2819
01:39:51,550 --> 01:39:52,870
No forks has been amazing.

2820
01:39:53,430 --> 01:39:55,430
Go to podcastindex.org at the bottom.

2821
01:39:55,550 --> 01:39:56,990
There's a big red donate button.

2822
01:39:57,130 --> 01:39:58,770
We love your Fiat fund coupons.

2823
01:39:58,850 --> 01:40:00,790
But man, we love booster grams as well.

2824
01:40:01,130 --> 01:40:02,730
And of course, you can also send it

2825
01:40:02,730 --> 01:40:03,570
on chain if you want.

2826
01:40:03,650 --> 01:40:04,050
We'll take it.

2827
01:40:04,090 --> 01:40:04,750
We'll take anything.

2828
01:40:05,070 --> 01:40:06,350
Anyway, you want to support us.

2829
01:40:06,350 --> 01:40:07,690
Time, talent or treasure.

2830
01:40:07,850 --> 01:40:09,210
That is the value for value model.

2831
01:40:09,370 --> 01:40:11,850
Barry, thank you so much for everything you've

2832
01:40:11,850 --> 01:40:12,270
been doing.

2833
01:40:12,450 --> 01:40:15,570
Thank you for being a very innovative hosting

2834
01:40:15,570 --> 01:40:16,050
company.

2835
01:40:17,010 --> 01:40:20,570
And of course, congratulations on the app release.

2836
01:40:20,670 --> 01:40:23,390
And I very much look forward to what

2837
01:40:23,390 --> 01:40:25,110
you're going to be doing with that very

2838
01:40:25,110 --> 01:40:27,850
tight integration, because I think that you're pioneering

2839
01:40:27,850 --> 01:40:31,350
something here that most hosting companies have stayed

2840
01:40:31,350 --> 01:40:34,270
away from because it's very hard to show

2841
01:40:34,270 --> 01:40:36,810
the value in a podcast app for the

2842
01:40:36,810 --> 01:40:38,110
amount of work that has to go into

2843
01:40:38,110 --> 01:40:38,570
it, I think.

2844
01:40:38,630 --> 01:40:40,010
So I think it's really, really cool you're

2845
01:40:40,010 --> 01:40:40,430
doing that.

2846
01:40:41,330 --> 01:40:41,850
Yeah, thanks.

2847
01:40:42,230 --> 01:40:42,950
It was fun.

2848
01:40:43,630 --> 01:40:44,630
It's always fun.

2849
01:40:44,750 --> 01:40:47,070
It's always fun to have the Dutch guy

2850
01:40:47,070 --> 01:40:47,330
on.

2851
01:40:47,850 --> 01:40:48,270
All right.

2852
01:40:48,310 --> 01:40:50,070
So brother Dave, you even going back or

2853
01:40:50,070 --> 01:40:51,770
is the ghost town not worth it?

2854
01:40:51,850 --> 01:40:52,810
You're just going to stay home?

2855
01:40:52,810 --> 01:40:53,450
No, I'm going back.

2856
01:40:53,770 --> 01:40:55,110
It's the best time to get work done.

2857
01:40:55,250 --> 01:40:56,010
Yeah, exactly.

2858
01:40:56,490 --> 01:40:56,990
All right.

2859
01:40:57,130 --> 01:40:58,570
Barry, come back anytime.

2860
01:40:59,730 --> 01:41:01,510
Boardroom, thank you very much for being here.

2861
01:41:01,950 --> 01:41:03,510
And we'll be back next week.

2862
01:41:04,130 --> 01:41:06,650
Right here on podcast 2.0. It is

2863
01:41:06,650 --> 01:41:08,390
the boardroom where it all takes place.

2864
01:41:08,430 --> 01:41:09,070
We'll see you then.

2865
01:41:09,350 --> 01:41:10,630
Have a great weekend, everybody.

2866
01:41:30,780 --> 01:41:35,540
2.0. Visit podcastindex.org for more information.

2867
01:41:35,860 --> 01:41:37,380
Go podcasting.

2868
01:41:37,580 --> 01:41:38,840
Hey, what's this box for?

2869
01:41:38,920 --> 01:41:40,280
Let me see what we're going to do

2870
01:41:40,280 --> 01:41:40,580
here.