Episode 77: Is that a minipub in your pocket?

100:00:00,780 --> 00:00:05,550podcasting 2.0 for March11 2020, to Episode 77 Is that a200:00:05,550 --> 00:00:09,870mini pub in your pockets?Alright, and just happy to see300:00:09,870 --> 00:00:14,280me. Are you happy to be here atthe board meeting of podcasting400:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,6402.0 Everything happening inpodcast index.org, the podcast500:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,570namespace, and of course, allthe creativity and the good600:00:21,570 --> 00:00:25,380juice at podcast index dotsocial, special live board700:00:25,380 --> 00:00:27,960meeting today. I'm Adam curryhere in the heart of the Texas800:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,680Hill Country. And in Alabama,the man who edits SQL by hand my900:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,490friend on the other end, ladiesand gentlemen, Mr. De Jones,1000:00:35,880 --> 00:00:41,100live board meeting. Live boardmeeting, baby. Yeah. This is1100:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,570very exciting.1200:00:43,380 --> 00:00:46,800Yeah, the did anybody inform thesecretary? Did people just start1300:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,620streaming in she had no, itwasn't on the calendar.1400:00:50,220 --> 00:00:53,400That's pretty much the way itwent down. So what we're talking1500:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,350about is today we are live withthe live tagging the RSS feed,1600:00:58,350 --> 00:01:02,910which means at least one podcastapp, if you use it would have1700:01:02,910 --> 00:01:07,080notified you that the stream islive. And you can play this in1800:01:07,410 --> 00:01:10,590the app. And I believe there'salso a chat in the app. Am I1900:01:10,590 --> 00:01:11,070correct?2000:01:12,750 --> 00:01:16,350Chat is supposed to be I thinkit's just an iframe. I'm2100:01:16,350 --> 00:01:19,650actually scared too scared tohit this live button because I'm2200:01:19,650 --> 00:01:23,880afraid it's gonna like come backon me and I'll start playing and2300:01:23,970 --> 00:01:24,990it's gonna freak me out because2400:01:24,990 --> 00:01:27,900my curio caster wasn't showingme the live items. So I just2500:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,890want to I just want to go thereit is. 77 live. Okay, I only2600:01:31,890 --> 00:01:35,520showed up so I just want toknow, there it is. Oh, oh, wow,2700:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,860this is trippy. Now we justboost myself just for good2800:01:40,860 --> 00:01:41,820measure. Okay.2900:01:43,770 --> 00:01:45,960Break the internet and stop it.Alright, so3000:01:45,990 --> 00:01:49,590this kind of works. It was veryconfusing. I was using sovereign3100:01:49,590 --> 00:01:52,980feeds to set up the all thetrigger stuff, the live items.3200:01:54,030 --> 00:01:58,350And it was I was just just like,oh, what parameters do I need is3300:01:58,350 --> 00:02:02,580like, oh, a chat room. And thenthe story is just Oh, man. I3400:02:02,580 --> 00:02:05,520just I couldn't quite wrap myhead around it, then Steven be3500:02:05,910 --> 00:02:10,230created. And I also couldn'tfind the live item tag. Like,3600:02:10,230 --> 00:02:14,010where is it? I guess at thebottom. I expected that to be at3700:02:14,010 --> 00:02:19,680the top for stupid reasons, Iguess, in the just where it3800:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,200shows up just physically in thefeed. I wasn't expecting it3900:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,180there. So I was like, I couldn'tfigure out what was being4000:02:24,210 --> 00:02:28,050output. He sent me an RSS feed.I uploaded that one then I did4100:02:28,050 --> 00:02:29,970the second one. myself4200:02:30,180 --> 00:02:32,700when we went live. So all byyourself.4300:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,710Yes, Dave all by myself, I'mproud of me Come on this. If I4400:02:37,710 --> 00:02:42,270can't do it, who's gonna be ableto do it? I'm low on the on the4500:02:42,270 --> 00:02:42,690wrong.4600:02:43,290 --> 00:02:47,160User friendly is not exactly howyou would describe any, any of4700:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,960this. Well, what at all?4800:02:49,049 --> 00:02:52,679What's cool, I mean, I like theidea of setting it in advance4900:02:52,679 --> 00:02:55,769and then publishing the feed. Soyou know, okay, we'll be live, I5000:02:56,099 --> 00:03:00,659think 1230. But then you have todo that, again, when you go5100:03:00,659 --> 00:03:04,079live. And that should just be aclick, you know, it's like it5200:03:04,079 --> 00:03:06,509should know what to do. And Ishouldn't have to go there and5300:03:06,509 --> 00:03:10,559create a new episode. Copy theold one. I mean, obviously, as5400:03:10,559 --> 00:03:14,429we as this matures, and it'llget better, it's just right now5500:03:14,429 --> 00:03:15,809is kind of like holy crap.5600:03:16,590 --> 00:03:20,190Honestly, the best part aboutthis whole thing is that I can5700:03:20,190 --> 00:03:22,500look at curio caster andremember what the show number5800:03:22,500 --> 00:03:28,110is. And because that's aconsistent problem with me.5900:03:28,530 --> 00:03:28,920Yeah.6000:03:29,550 --> 00:03:32,130Alright, man, how we have a goodguest today, we should bring him6100:03:32,130 --> 00:03:34,890in pretty quickly. There'sanything we need to discuss6200:03:34,890 --> 00:03:37,110before we get rolling. What areyou working on? It seems like6300:03:37,110 --> 00:03:38,940you've been still doing somecleanup stuff.6400:03:40,050 --> 00:03:44,070While I've been working on theaggregator, so the, you know, we6500:03:44,070 --> 00:03:49,260talked last week a little bitabout how the aggregator that we6600:03:49,260 --> 00:03:57,000brought into podcast index wasthe one from sort of the final6700:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,300revision of the of theaggregator from Freedom6800:04:00,300 --> 00:04:05,490controller. Okay, so I tookthat, and it's, it's a two piece6900:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,840as a two piece aggregators got apolar, a feed puller, and then a7000:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,930feed parser. So that they canrun parallel. And there's this7100:04:12,960 --> 00:04:18,120basically, it's two separateJavaScript, Node js scripts, and7200:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,220one's called party time, whichis the parser. The other one is7300:04:20,220 --> 00:04:24,420called aggravate, which is thepolar, right? And so then you,7400:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,950we took those, dropped them intopodcast index code base, and7500:04:28,950 --> 00:04:32,970then modified the crap out ofthem to be to do the things that7600:04:32,970 --> 00:04:38,670we needed to do for for podcastindex. Party time works fine.7700:04:39,030 --> 00:04:42,570It's, it's a little it's messy,because it was written as fast7800:04:42,570 --> 00:04:46,230as humanly possible. So it's,it's still messy but aggravate7900:04:46,920 --> 00:04:53,400is based on the old node requestmodule, which has been8000:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,510deprecated. Now,8100:04:55,050 --> 00:04:57,600in node node request module,8200:04:57,900 --> 00:05:02,220node j. S. They had Like a builtin library for doing HTTP8300:05:02,220 --> 00:05:08,400requests now. Okay. And it'sbeen it's been deprecated. Since8400:05:08,400 --> 00:05:15,390I think node 14, maybe in theirown like, I think the current8500:05:15,690 --> 00:05:19,260long term stable is 16. Now, fornode,8600:05:19,470 --> 00:05:21,360so it was time. Yeah,8700:05:21,390 --> 00:05:24,030I mean, it was creaky even Ithink they deprecated it because8800:05:24,030 --> 00:05:26,910it wasn't very reliable anyway,you know, as as, as a8900:05:26,940 --> 00:05:31,920as a systems admin, yourself, Imean, that. I know you do a lot9000:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,010of customer facing stuff in yourreal job, but also just all the,9100:05:35,070 --> 00:05:38,880you know, a lot of back end. Isthis like a never ending thing,9200:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,240just all these upgrades? Is thatjust this is just Yes. I mean,9300:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240this is a determine your life toa degree when all that's coming,9400:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,880and then I have to upgrade thosethree things, because they have9500:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,580dependencies and all this stuff.Yep.9600:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,540If you live and die by the EO bythe AOL table, the end of life9700:05:54,540 --> 00:05:57,000chart from every softwarevendor?9800:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,910Oh, yeah, that's published aheadof time. So you know, you know,9900:05:59,910 --> 00:06:01,350when when a new version iscoming?10000:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,910Yes. Like the most recent thingis in the day job is going10100:06:05,910 --> 00:06:09,330through and purging MicrosoftSQL Server 2014 Out of10200:06:09,330 --> 00:06:11,940everything and upgrading,because that's about to go into10300:06:11,940 --> 00:06:12,240fly.10400:06:12,690 --> 00:06:15,690That sounds really fun. Oh, it'sgreat. Yeah. Oh, boy.10500:06:15,810 --> 00:06:21,600It's a party. Let me tell youbring beer. No, it's yeah,10600:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,440that's that got deprecated. Andthen it was never very reliable10700:06:25,440 --> 00:06:31,830to begin with, even when it wasactually supported. And so I've10800:06:31,830 --> 00:06:36,090known for a while that I neededto rewrite this thing. And it's,10900:06:36,270 --> 00:06:39,420it's the simpler of the two.It's not11000:06:39,510 --> 00:06:42,660so simple. When you say rewrite,does that mean a whole code11100:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,710rewrite? Or just Yes? scrappedfrom really? Yeah. Now, do you11200:06:46,710 --> 00:06:49,410already have these? I'm justcurious about the process. No11300:06:49,410 --> 00:06:53,700one No one ever asked developersI guess numbnuts like me, so So11400:06:53,700 --> 00:06:56,400you have your your basicstructure of the program? Are11500:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,990you going to literally startline one new file? Or are you11600:07:00,990 --> 00:07:05,040going to take that structure anddo some some adaptation copy11700:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,060paste? Basically,11800:07:07,080 --> 00:07:14,250this one was pretty much cargonew project, just blank file11900:07:14,250 --> 00:07:20,220starting from scratch. Wow. ThatBecause? Because it's not? It's12000:07:20,220 --> 00:07:24,330not super complicated. When thiswhen this software is all said12100:07:24,330 --> 00:07:29,100and done? We're probably talkingabout Yeah, 1000 lines of code12200:07:29,100 --> 00:07:29,760or less? Oh, I12300:07:29,760 --> 00:07:30,540can hold that.12400:07:32,340 --> 00:07:33,420Why am I doing it?12500:07:34,770 --> 00:07:37,260handed over? I'll take care ofit. Yeah. But12600:07:38,790 --> 00:07:42,450that, yeah, it's pretty much astraight, clean rewrite, there's12700:07:42,450 --> 00:07:46,200really no as there's no portinggoing on, because I don't like12800:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,360the way that the olds dole thingwas written anyway. And so what12900:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,590it's going to do is it's goingto, it's going to just accept13000:07:55,710 --> 00:08:00,720the current the current versionof, of the polar, it, it does a13100:08:00,720 --> 00:08:07,320query on the database to get abatch of feeds, and then loads13200:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,480them all up in a in, in a anasynchronous, it just fires them13300:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,530all off asynchronously. Then asthey fit as each one finishes13400:08:16,530 --> 00:08:21,600its job, it determines whathappened with HTTP status code13500:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,160was what that means. And then itupdates the database13600:08:26,550 --> 00:08:30,420individually. So for every timethe polar kicks off, there's13700:08:30,420 --> 00:08:36,780this flurry of database calls,okay. And what I want to do is13800:08:36,780 --> 00:08:40,260get rid of that, what I wouldlike to do is do one, one,13900:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,450select have a hope of n get awhole bunch of feed IDs based on14000:08:45,450 --> 00:08:51,660some criteria, load them up in aqueue, and then have the polar14100:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,940just grab all those feed IDs,and URLs, grab the feed IDs and14200:08:56,940 --> 00:09:02,430URLs from the queue fireeverything off when and as they14300:09:02,430 --> 00:09:10,620finish write them to feed filesthen include the HTTP status14400:09:10,620 --> 00:09:16,500code and e Tag and last modifiedheader in the feed file. This14500:09:16,500 --> 00:09:20,670and party time will come throughand pick up those feed oh14600:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,150right you told me about this yesyeah. Now what guys You had me14700:09:24,210 --> 00:09:26,880that polar and party time? Imean, it's like yeah, you14800:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,140already had me there. So butthis this will probably be this14900:09:31,140 --> 00:09:34,110will have an AOL itself thiswill this will be dead when pod15000:09:34,110 --> 00:09:35,340ping finally takes over.15100:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,900Yeah, but that I'm hoping,selfishly, that that's not for a15200:09:39,900 --> 00:09:42,570while just so that I won't haveto consider this a waste of my15300:09:42,570 --> 00:09:42,810time.15400:09:43,950 --> 00:09:47,190Well, I don't think it's ever awaste. But Oh god this15500:09:47,190 --> 00:09:52,200thing is fast. Yo, it is sofast. It's my how fast this is15600:09:52,230 --> 00:09:58,380for it is. Let's see. We're thelast test I did last night was15700:09:58,380 --> 00:10:00,420about 1200 feet a minute in it.15800:10:01,469 --> 00:10:05,159Wow. And how many parallelprocesses is that?15900:10:06,509 --> 00:10:09,089It is their threads so they'renot as threaded.16000:10:09,420 --> 00:10:12,090So 1200 threads in a minute,basically.16100:10:12,930 --> 00:10:17,490Yeah, that mean the way thatthey look is the request library16200:10:17,490 --> 00:10:21,990inside of rust is so good. It'sit is so top notch.16300:10:21,990 --> 00:10:24,060Hey, Dave. How good is it?16400:10:25,410 --> 00:10:31,710Oh, it's so good that I had toget a get a drink afterwards.16500:10:32,190 --> 00:10:33,210ever smoked dinner?16600:10:35,220 --> 00:10:39,480No, it's fantastic because itlooks like you can fire off 100016700:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,760feeds have it do its job. Andthe memory usage for the16800:10:44,760 --> 00:10:50,670process. Never goes above about100 Meg's hmm it's it's that16900:10:50,670 --> 00:10:54,540good. I did 10,000 feeds theother day. A fire those off in17000:10:54,540 --> 00:10:59,880it. It got all 10,000 in abouttwo minutes. 20 seconds. This17100:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,320thing is this this? That's good.Yeah. And this is all on a file.17200:11:04,830 --> 00:11:09,810This is all on a $5 a monthLinode with with a single CPU17300:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,370with non dedicated shared CPUand only like a gig of RAM.17400:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,710Right $5 Now but after thisAmazon purchase, you know 1517500:11:20,190 --> 00:11:25,980Yeah, yeah, it'll go up. I'msorry. aka my Yeah, you know,17600:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,290it's interesting. I have notreceived a single boost from17700:11:28,290 --> 00:11:33,300anybody yet. I wonder why thatis. And guess people don't care.17800:11:33,750 --> 00:11:35,040I see them talking about it.17900:11:35,790 --> 00:11:40,170Is it are these booths best tobe showing up in the chat room?18000:11:40,680 --> 00:11:41,250They wouldn't know18100:11:41,250 --> 00:11:43,770but they would show up on theheli pad because I have the the18200:11:43,770 --> 00:11:47,850boosts monitor split so theywould show up but I haven't seen18300:11:47,850 --> 00:11:50,340any and even the one that I sentearlier has and I wonder if18400:11:50,340 --> 00:11:54,180that's the the LNP locking again18500:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,240LNP locking Yeah,18600:11:57,270 --> 00:12:00,390what if too many people aretrying to boost at the same time18700:12:00,390 --> 00:12:03,180then it locks and it waits anddoes all kinds of stuff.18800:12:03,239 --> 00:12:04,709So I'm gonna try right now.Yeah.18900:12:06,510 --> 00:12:07,530I'm going to send a boost.19000:12:08,070 --> 00:12:11,340Yeah, well, I sent myself aboost. Now I know this illegal19100:12:11,340 --> 00:12:14,730in several states but still Iself boosted and it didn't come19200:12:14,730 --> 00:12:20,190through and I was boosting fromcurio caster. Okay, yeah, I got19300:12:20,700 --> 00:12:27,240he got one. Who's a Dara? No.All right, Darrin Oh 10,034 sets19400:12:27,270 --> 00:12:32,460one more than comics throughblogger. Thank you for your19500:12:32,460 --> 00:12:33,390courage. Yes, thank19600:12:33,390 --> 00:12:36,180you. No, he just says see Darrinjust added himself. This is19700:12:36,180 --> 00:12:38,850proof that Darrin actually hassat in a wallet. He just never19800:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,230he just never spins them. And hesent19900:12:40,230 --> 00:12:43,470it from breeze about that.20000:12:44,640 --> 00:12:45,630I'm gonna boost here.20100:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,520Interesting. Interesting. Camein although the came in his20200:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,190podcast in 2.0, episode 7520300:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,090I just sent a boost. Okay. 100 Iwonder if20400:12:57,090 --> 00:13:01,410that's an oh, you know, breezeis interesting because it's a20500:13:01,470 --> 00:13:04,470it's a full node and really hasto be running for it to be able20600:13:04,470 --> 00:13:07,740to process payments. So if youjust boost something and you20700:13:07,740 --> 00:13:11,100close the app, then it probablywon't send that boosts and or I20800:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,880guess booster Graham until muchlater. Oh, breeze doesn't20900:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,790support live item? Of course.I'm sorry. What am I thinking?21000:13:17,940 --> 00:13:21,720So he Yeah, he just grabbed arandom episode. Well, okay, why21100:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,900don't we share some of this withour guests, Dave, since we're21200:13:24,900 --> 00:13:28,560going to be talking a lot aboutwhat's going on the most the21300:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,670most recent developments thatwe've been working on for the21400:13:32,670 --> 00:13:36,270namespace and of course, all ofthat podcast index dot social,21500:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,780anyone who already has anaccount can get send you an21600:13:39,780 --> 00:13:42,990invite to your preferences. Soif anyone's looking for account21700:13:42,990 --> 00:13:46,440looking to join, we just had toshut that off because I was I21800:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,520get these trending emails ofwhat you know what what what is21900:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,960trending on our Mastodon serversomehow it knows this. Believe22000:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,850me. That's it a bunch ofpolitical call. Yeah. All22100:13:56,850 --> 00:14:03,570political. Yeah. Welcome in.John Spurlock is here ladies and22200:14:03,570 --> 00:14:05,700gentlemen. Welcome to the boardmeeting, John.22300:14:06,300 --> 00:14:07,950Hey, nice to be here. Can youhear me?22400:14:08,010 --> 00:14:11,970Yeah, we hear you. Good. We canhear you. Yes. Yeah, we got you.22500:14:11,970 --> 00:14:12,360We got22600:14:12,750 --> 00:14:14,160siblings. You know, John.22700:14:15,270 --> 00:14:19,320I don't really even know. Yourbackground.22800:14:21,270 --> 00:14:22,260See, internet?22900:14:23,130 --> 00:14:26,670Yes. Well, cuz I heard I heardyou were on. Were you on pod23000:14:26,670 --> 00:14:28,140land recently? I think. Yeah. I23100:14:28,140 --> 00:14:31,680was on pod line last week. Yeah.And like how this this guy23200:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,270has some history that I'm notaware of? And maybe others. I'd23300:14:36,270 --> 00:14:38,700love to know a little bit abouthow you came to podcasting to23400:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,170promote what you were doingbefore?23500:14:41,100 --> 00:14:45,300Yeah, sure, sure. So I guessI've been doing software now for23600:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,130over 20 years and a full timesort of capacity. So I still I23700:14:50,130 --> 00:14:52,350still like writing software. Istill like making stuff. That's23800:14:52,350 --> 00:14:56,340kind of my MO. I worked at kindof a financial sort of23900:14:56,340 --> 00:14:59,250background for a little bit didsome trading systems24000:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,860integration. You know,Enterprise Architecture and24100:15:01,860 --> 00:15:07,170that's yummy. Yeah, exactly. Youknow, database stuff. I started24200:15:07,170 --> 00:15:10,410out there, optimizing queryplans, that sort of thing. But24300:15:10,410 --> 00:15:15,390then I also did consulting withJava, Linux stuff. I always had24400:15:15,390 --> 00:15:18,510been doing that always beeninterested in the web. I24500:15:18,510 --> 00:15:23,400actually worked for Google for afew years working on Android. So24600:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,490the operating system there isbasically I think, what they24700:15:26,490 --> 00:15:27,900call it now as a full stack,24800:15:28,530 --> 00:15:31,380developer full stack. Plus, Iguess, if you add Android onto24900:15:31,380 --> 00:15:31,560it,25000:15:31,590 --> 00:15:35,100yeah, I'm a generalist. I justlike kind of like it all still.25100:15:35,730 --> 00:15:39,120And so what I decided is, youknow, Google has this IP thing25200:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,390where you can't really work onside projects, without them25300:15:42,630 --> 00:15:43,830being able to claim your IP.25400:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,610Oh, wait a minute. So you do getfirst of all, you get your 20%25500:15:47,610 --> 00:15:50,670still the thing that they stilldo that 20 20% of your time, you25600:15:50,670 --> 00:15:51,930can do whatever you want.25700:15:52,230 --> 00:15:55,200Yeah, when I started there, theywere still lip servicing that.25800:15:56,130 --> 00:15:59,520I figured that was that gone along time ago. Yeah, exactly.25900:15:59,550 --> 00:16:02,220I can't bad mouth that though.Because they did allow me I26000:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,010think for the span about sixmonths, they let me do a project26100:16:05,010 --> 00:16:07,950that was like, totallyunrelated. So they did do it.26200:16:07,950 --> 00:16:09,810But I think now it's a littledifferent. I mean, they give you26300:16:09,810 --> 00:16:12,660200% of real time work to dothis,26400:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,050right. And then of course, allyour all your bullet base belong26500:16:16,050 --> 00:16:19,350to us. So whatever you developin that 20%, we own?26600:16:19,650 --> 00:16:22,410Exactly, yeah. And I've alwaysdone open source stuff on the26700:16:22,410 --> 00:16:25,860side. And I've always had ideas.And so what I mean, I'm in my26800:16:25,860 --> 00:16:30,480early 40s now, and I've neverdone the cliche, garage26900:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,960startups, that type of thing. Sonot my garage. I'm in my, you27000:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,840know, in the house, but I'mbasically doing that now. So I27100:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,080quit Google. And then I kind of,I always knew I do something in27200:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,170podcasting. I've been, I've beenlistening to podcasts, and it's27300:16:46,170 --> 00:16:48,660like, literally the verybeginning, Adam, I think I've27400:16:48,660 --> 00:16:52,830been following Dave, Dave Winer.And after extensive beginning, I27500:16:52,830 --> 00:16:55,350used to be really into pointcast. I don't remember.27600:16:55,410 --> 00:16:59,250Oh, no, do do I remember pointcast. I loved how the whole27700:16:59,250 --> 00:17:03,150office network just went down.The minute everyone's point cast27800:17:03,150 --> 00:17:07,860was updating. Yes. Yeah, it wasthat that was just for the, for27900:17:07,860 --> 00:17:11,700the young for the younger folksout there. Back in the day, we28000:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,160actually use this thing calledscreensavers. I don't think28100:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,310people use them anymore. Weneeded a screensaver because28200:17:17,310 --> 00:17:20,520your screen literally would beburned in and ruined. If you28300:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,060didn't opt for toasters and fishflying around on your screen.28400:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,210And it was Yeah, and it wasactually a thing we would buy28500:17:27,210 --> 00:17:31,980screensavers you go to thestore, you buy a box with the28600:17:31,980 --> 00:17:35,130fish I think I think I rememberbuying the screensaver fish28700:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,400bought the toasters. And thefish in it was all floppy. It28800:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,330was on floppy disk. Right? Andyou had to load it all up. And28900:17:42,330 --> 00:17:44,970then out also in Kansas thinkpoint cast. And it was like,29000:17:45,150 --> 00:17:48,150there's like a checkbox. And Ithink a lot of Dave whiners.29100:17:48,180 --> 00:17:52,530Inspiration was also he evencalled a checkbox news. You29200:17:52,530 --> 00:17:55,770could say, Okay, I want somesports. I want some finance. I29300:17:55,770 --> 00:18:01,320want some food recipes. And itwould basically was just a, a29400:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,760version of a, an early art. Wedidn't run an RSS as far as I29500:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,150know. That was too early,probably just download whatever.29600:18:09,180 --> 00:18:12,420How did that work? Does anyoneknow? What the back end was?29700:18:13,140 --> 00:18:16,590I? I'm curious XML. That's theonly thing. I'm sure it was XML.29800:18:16,620 --> 00:18:17,070Right?29900:18:17,130 --> 00:18:20,580Yeah. So it stuck it in. Butthen, you know, we had, we had30000:18:20,580 --> 00:18:24,630maybe, I don't know, like 40 or50 people at the office, and we30100:18:24,630 --> 00:18:30,090had a T one line. You know, onemegabit per second wishes, you30200:18:30,090 --> 00:18:32,040know, if you have that at home,you you're on the phone with30300:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,620your cable company, to what'swrong, what's wrong with my30400:18:34,620 --> 00:18:37,680speed here? And so wheneveryone's point cast would30500:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,960update invariably at the top ofthe hour. Everything shut down.30600:18:43,770 --> 00:18:46,800Yeah, it was classic. It was theright idea just kind of too30700:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,980early from, you know, wiring andpiping. Right. Right. Right. I30800:18:49,980 --> 00:18:52,530think definitely. Other idea.And I, you know, I've always30900:18:52,530 --> 00:18:55,500been interested in that kind oflike real time breaking sort of31000:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,620news. And RSS is like that. Alot of good podcasts are like31100:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,290that, too. You know, they kindof like, try to get on top of,31200:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,620you know, I guess it's the sametransport but the same sort of31300:19:04,620 --> 00:19:07,530idea. Yeah. I've I've alwaysbeen interested in the idea that31400:19:07,530 --> 00:19:10,020you can program media is sointeresting to me.31500:19:10,380 --> 00:19:13,800Yeah. Well, and in hindsight,kind of thinking back to those31600:19:13,800 --> 00:19:20,430days. I think there was webblogs.com which, which would31700:19:20,430 --> 00:19:22,590take XML RPC Requests.31800:19:22,860 --> 00:19:24,630That was whiners thing, right.Yeah, that31900:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,300that was his thing. And but youknow, how interesting is it that32000:19:27,300 --> 00:19:33,270here we are 20 years later, andwe're using pod ping, to let32100:19:33,270 --> 00:19:37,860people know that the feed isupdated. It's the same problem32200:19:37,860 --> 00:19:38,580we're solving.32300:19:39,450 --> 00:19:42,600And the fact that it's still afeed is unbelievable to me. So I32400:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,490think that's kind of cool.Actually, a lot of you know,32500:19:44,490 --> 00:19:47,070back with my kind of enterprisearchitecture background, and I32600:19:47,070 --> 00:19:50,730think even back with the feed,it's the RSS sort of committee32700:19:50,730 --> 00:19:53,820itself, right. Immediately theastronauts descended and we're32800:19:53,820 --> 00:19:56,340like, yeah, all right, Adam,right. We're gonna do this32900:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,550right. We're gonna redo Yeah.Oh, my goodness, that was more33000:19:59,550 --> 00:20:02,610so this is Like an existenceproof that would you call them33100:20:02,610 --> 00:20:05,880astral astronauts? Would youcall them? Right architecture,33200:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,900astral architecture.33300:20:08,070 --> 00:20:10,170We even had them guy as well.33400:20:11,519 --> 00:20:15,539No, but I mean, if you ever doany work with RSS, you are33500:20:15,539 --> 00:20:19,799taking on a world of pain,right? Dave knows this. Yes. And33600:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,439I think what the atom guys were,they saw this immediately. And33700:20:22,439 --> 00:20:25,109they said, hey, what if weactually clean this up of it? It33800:20:25,109 --> 00:20:28,319would make developers liveseasier. But I think what they33900:20:28,319 --> 00:20:31,619didn't realize is RSS was moreabout making the publishers life34000:20:31,619 --> 00:20:32,039easier.34100:20:32,070 --> 00:20:37,260Yes. And thank you for sayingthat. Because even though my, my34200:20:37,260 --> 00:20:41,280brain was fogging over lookingat it, I know that I can look at34300:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,640my RSS feed. And I know I cannow stress because we're34400:20:44,670 --> 00:20:47,850starting in late and everything,I know that ultimately, I can34500:20:47,850 --> 00:20:51,630figure it out. And if, if pushcomes to shove, I can open it in34600:20:51,630 --> 00:20:56,400Notepad, and I can make achange. And that to me is from34700:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,220the you're absolutely right.From the publishers perspective.34800:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,770Perspective, that is key. Andthat that's one of the34900:21:01,770 --> 00:21:02,940successes, I believe,35000:21:03,210 --> 00:21:05,460well, we've been talking aboutthis for a long time is that35100:21:05,970 --> 00:21:10,230when it comes to RSS, the issue,the issues with RSS really come35200:21:10,230 --> 00:21:15,150from it being loose, looselyspecified. And those are its35300:21:15,150 --> 00:21:19,350strengths and his weaknesses. Inboth in both ways. Adam, Adam35400:21:19,350 --> 00:21:22,590was a fan as actually afantastic idea is fantastic35500:21:22,590 --> 00:21:26,760improvement RSS and you know, ifyou could go roll time back and35600:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,050sort of do things differently,you know, Adam, was the better35700:21:31,080 --> 00:21:38,040was the better format, but RSS,they, you know, here, RSS only35800:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,120only defines, like in an item.It's like description and title.35900:21:42,540 --> 00:21:45,450Or it may even be just histitle. I mean, like that, the36000:21:45,450 --> 00:21:48,120looseness of the of thatspecification are kind of It's36100:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,420kind of insane. But But ifyou've been the good thing about36200:21:51,420 --> 00:21:53,910it, though, is if you've beenthrough that whole thing before,36300:21:54,300 --> 00:21:59,550like if you've been through theworld of of of a format war like36400:21:59,550 --> 00:22:05,400that, and you've seen which one,one and why at one, then it36500:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,760informs the next time you startto get involved in a project36600:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,060like podcasting 2.0 or somethinglike that. You bring that36700:22:12,060 --> 00:22:16,230experience with you. And you'reyou're less of a hardliner36800:22:16,260 --> 00:22:20,280about, we have to do it this waywe have to, because you realize36900:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,910that it's not that that's notwhat makes the format when what37000:22:23,910 --> 00:22:25,260makes the format when is37100:22:25,260 --> 00:22:28,440porn it always porn always makesthe format when?37200:22:29,550 --> 00:22:33,240Okay, yes. Okay. That's that'swhatever law that is, you know,37300:22:33,300 --> 00:22:38,820the wiki? Yes, as Curry's law,there you go. But the really37400:22:38,940 --> 00:22:45,000what makes the format when is acombination of the spec being37500:22:45,030 --> 00:22:49,650being well done. And thepolitics of what go on with it.37600:22:49,830 --> 00:22:54,120There. You cannot separate thosetwo things, right? Because just37700:22:54,120 --> 00:22:58,260having the best spec rarely isenough. You have to you have to37800:22:58,260 --> 00:22:59,400marry them two together.37900:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,000That's why podcasting 2.0 is sogreat is that you guys are kind38000:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,780of a nice, third party. Right?So even if someone came up with38100:23:06,780 --> 00:23:11,040these tags, I'm you've been overthis before, but they have come38200:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,800up with tags in the past, butit's if there's a company behind38300:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,670it, other people look, look atthat work kind of differently.38400:23:17,670 --> 00:23:20,970So it's great to have you guyskind of as a I don't know what38500:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,580you want to call. It was povertyAlliance? Yeah.38600:23:24,390 --> 00:23:27,630Well, it's not you guys. John.It's all of us. It's exactly.38700:23:27,930 --> 00:23:29,520Our committee. It's not Yeah, wejust do this.38800:23:29,550 --> 00:23:35,520But but but yeah, sure, Dave.Matt, the magic is in one thing.38900:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,250And one thing only. And I'vetalked to many people about39000:23:38,250 --> 00:23:42,150this, and we've been approachedmany times, and is that we just39100:23:42,180 --> 00:23:45,960are not taking any money fromanybody only money we'll take is39200:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,800that as donated four out ofappreciation for what the39300:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,770project is. That's, that's whatmakes it work. And it also helps39400:23:56,010 --> 00:23:59,820when Alex gates, his textmessages me at, you know,39500:23:59,940 --> 00:24:03,810midnight on a Tuesday, and sayssomething like, man, I've got39600:24:03,810 --> 00:24:09,030this great idea. And he's laysit out. That's, you can only39700:24:09,060 --> 00:24:13,200have that sort of relationship,when there's not big when39800:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,600there's not money involved. Whenwhen people do when there's note39900:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,330when there's you start gettinginto all the other stuff, and it40000:24:18,330 --> 00:24:20,640just falls apart. Yeah, youknow, it isn't40100:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,190alignment of interests. I thinkI think more than anything, it's40200:24:23,190 --> 00:24:26,340kind of a lot of people had thesame sort of ideas. Like when40300:24:26,340 --> 00:24:29,340you started this, I think thatwas about the time that Spotify40400:24:29,340 --> 00:24:32,610was getting off the ground. AndI think a lot of people had the40500:24:32,610 --> 00:24:36,540same thought at the same time.And so I know that sure I turned40600:24:36,540 --> 00:24:40,770you guys, I think we kind ofline up as far as kind of really40700:24:40,770 --> 00:24:44,520wanting the the way it has beento kind of keep going and I40800:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,070don't think there's anyguarantee that it will. I think40900:24:47,070 --> 00:24:50,910Apple has done a great job ofkind of encoding it for now. But41000:24:51,420 --> 00:24:55,650due to kind of the concentrationof things, it wouldn't be hard41100:24:55,650 --> 00:24:58,050for some of the bigger playersto just specify another way of41200:24:58,050 --> 00:25:01,290doing things. And you know, havesome bad meetings and then we've41300:25:01,290 --> 00:25:04,410kind of lost a lot of the stuffthat we have today. So my whole41400:25:04,410 --> 00:25:08,040overall goal, if I have any goalis to just kind of maintain the41500:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,880status quo of like, lots ofapps, lots of hosts kind of a41600:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,180dynamic, like system with a lotof players.41700:25:15,300 --> 00:25:18,930Do you want? I was just gonnaask one more thing. Do you have41800:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,300a day job currently or justcoast? Are you just coasting on41900:25:21,300 --> 00:25:22,260that Google stock?42000:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,920Well, it's it's, it's beenreferred to42100:25:26,940 --> 00:25:28,590the coast has been downhill.Yes.42200:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,300You know, it's about poverty,right? i What's the euphemism42300:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,220I'm investing in the future? Oh,that's cool. I love that you42400:25:38,220 --> 00:25:41,460guys talk about your bills Ispend about, I think about 50042500:25:41,460 --> 00:25:43,920bucks a month right now on allthe backend. And I've been42600:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,930seeing all this data comethrough because I, you know, I42700:25:45,930 --> 00:25:49,680look at all every single episodethat comes out. And I saw a lot42800:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,290of, you know, kind of coolstats, and I'm interested in42900:25:52,290 --> 00:25:54,660that sort of thing myself. Butthen I started publishing that,43000:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,000as well. So that's kind ofanother thing I'm kind of doing43100:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,550on the side is, you know,someone will throw out like, I43200:25:59,550 --> 00:26:02,820wonder how many, how manyepisodes use chapters, or how43300:26:02,820 --> 00:26:05,340pervasive chapters are? I'mlike, I could actually tell you.43400:26:06,090 --> 00:26:09,750Yeah, so that's been kind of funas well. So just to see it's43500:26:09,750 --> 00:26:13,800kind of nice. Being able to kindof work in a space where like,43600:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,650things are still evolving. Andthere's still lots of, I think,43700:26:16,650 --> 00:26:20,460a lot of low hanging fruit. Ithink strategically, I'm43800:26:20,460 --> 00:26:23,820focusing on an app like a clientapp. I think that's like the43900:26:23,820 --> 00:26:25,920biggest hole. I think there's alot of great hosts out there. So44000:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040I think I have some ideas in thehosting space as well. But I44100:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,120think there's tons of great,like, all levels enterprise free44200:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,180and everywhere in between. It'sa flip case. Yeah, yeah,44300:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,300exactly. So I think I'm kind ofokay with where that is. But on44400:26:39,300 --> 00:26:43,500the app side, I don't know ifyou know, but Lipson has a as a44500:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,530podcast. And every month they gothrough and kind of list out44600:26:47,010 --> 00:26:50,460what they see for the downloadswise from all the podcasts are44700:26:50,460 --> 00:26:53,820on their system. And theyalways, you know, they've gone44800:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,550back many years now. And I'vebeen looking at that. And they44900:26:56,550 --> 00:26:59,790used to break out like, okay, soApple podcasts, as we're seeing45000:26:59,790 --> 00:27:03,030this many downloads from Applepodcasts. Spotify is obviously,45100:27:03,780 --> 00:27:06,270coming up, Google is coming up,but the independent like, so45200:27:06,270 --> 00:27:09,960everything other than Google andApple, that share has been going45300:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,350down consistently. And so that'swhat worries me, you know,45400:27:13,350 --> 00:27:16,410overcast is doing a great jobout there. But it's iOS only.45500:27:16,590 --> 00:27:20,370But from from a philosophicalstandpoint, why? Why does that45600:27:20,370 --> 00:27:22,020overall market share matter?45700:27:22,860 --> 00:27:27,000Because of the what? Well, forone I see is this kind of like a45800:27:27,030 --> 00:27:31,050strategic thing. Again, if let'ssay only two apps are the45900:27:31,170 --> 00:27:35,160primary portal into podcasting,it makes it a lot easier for46000:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,260them to just say, Okay, we'regoing to do another thing now.46100:27:37,290 --> 00:27:41,310Because then no matter whatApple does, I think anyway, I'm46200:27:41,310 --> 00:27:43,740the host would jump to do it. Soif they said, Tomorrow, we're46300:27:43,740 --> 00:27:47,940going to do Jason feed, orsomething crazy like that. They46400:27:47,940 --> 00:27:49,800would, they would fall overthemselves, the host to46500:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,280implement it right away. Sowe're kind of it's limited by46600:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,830the the clients to some extent,as far as where the innovation46700:27:55,830 --> 00:27:56,130happens,46800:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,040here's, here's my view on that,because I think we get way too46900:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,690hung up on leaderboards andpercentages, and all of this.47000:28:04,230 --> 00:28:10,080The only way podcasting grows isthrough communities that are47100:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,470promoting whatever it is that isgoing to rise to the top. And47200:28:16,470 --> 00:28:22,260sometimes it's a technologicalthing that boosts podcasting.47300:28:22,770 --> 00:28:29,430Often, its content. Sopodcasting was growing, maybe47400:28:29,430 --> 00:28:34,080five to 10%, a year bubblingunder, it got pushed way down47500:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,290once YouTube and Facebook andTwitter, and that was it was all47600:28:37,290 --> 00:28:41,190about social media. So there wasno, there was really no ink at47700:28:41,190 --> 00:28:45,690all, for podcasting, although itwas growing, but no mainstream47800:28:45,690 --> 00:28:53,430attention until cereal hit. Andso my point being that you, you47900:28:53,430 --> 00:28:57,930can't market your way to the tothe top of the of the apps, you48000:28:57,930 --> 00:29:02,250know, with, I don't think we'reever going to see apps as big as48100:29:02,250 --> 00:29:06,330Apple and Spotify, it will evenout but it's it's all going to48200:29:06,330 --> 00:29:10,890happen in small pockets. Thesmall pockets happen and grow48300:29:10,890 --> 00:29:16,590because the podcasters they wantpeople to use that app, you48400:29:16,590 --> 00:29:21,900know, and that reason, some ofthem have it now. A lot of48500:29:21,900 --> 00:29:25,170Bitcoiners a lot of pioneers,you know, early or early48600:29:25,170 --> 00:29:30,150adopters were in a very, veryearly stage. Most of the apps48700:29:30,450 --> 00:29:34,800are just getting to wherethey're acceptable for people to48800:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,250make a change or try somethingout. So I think we're just we're48900:29:38,250 --> 00:29:43,260just, we're a ways off. But thisthis, these these percentages,49000:29:43,260 --> 00:29:48,000it's like it's demoralizing. Itdoesn't matter. We I mean, look49100:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,460at the features that somehosting companies are49200:29:50,460 --> 00:29:52,830implementing yet. It's notovernight and they're not all49300:29:52,830 --> 00:29:56,040falling over themselves, but anumber of important ones are49400:29:56,070 --> 00:29:59,970doing it and supporting it. Andbecause we're not falling over49500:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,250over ourselves because Applesaid we're going to do49600:30:02,250 --> 00:30:04,230something. We're doing it right.49700:30:04,650 --> 00:30:09,330But, you know, I think theYouTube, the YouTube talk that's49800:30:09,330 --> 00:30:13,620been going on for the lastcouple of weeks is kind of a, it49900:30:13,620 --> 00:30:19,140needs to be talked about becauseI don't trust those numbers.50000:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,700Well, let me let me say, let meput it this way. If YouTube as a50100:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,400podcast platform, you know, nowthey're, they're gonna do like50200:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,530the keynote, somebody fromYouTube's gonna do like the50300:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,500keynote at Podcast Movement, andthey're, they're making their,50400:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,180their play into podcasting. Andthen I hear you keep hearing50500:30:36,180 --> 00:30:39,390these big numbers, like 40% ofpeople listen to podcasts on50600:30:39,390 --> 00:30:41,970YouTube for medicine researchand all this cuz it's just kind50700:30:41,970 --> 00:30:47,670of all in the in the podcast,industry news. And I've got real50800:30:47,670 --> 00:30:52,650problems with those numbers andhow to interpret that, because,50900:30:53,190 --> 00:30:58,170well, I guess number one is, ifthat's true, if it's true that51000:30:58,170 --> 00:31:03,570you that 40% of people listen topodcasts on YouTube, then why is51100:31:03,570 --> 00:31:06,150YouTube making this big play ofgetting into podcasting? That51200:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,390sounds like they already are?Why are they going to pay? Pay51300:31:09,390 --> 00:31:12,030create, oh, I can answer that$50,000,51400:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,730I can give you the answer andgive you the answer no, that no,51500:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,580they're saying somethingdifferent. To saying we want you51600:31:17,580 --> 00:31:22,560to make video versions of yourpodcast is very different. And51700:31:22,590 --> 00:31:25,170so they're not. They're notnecessarily asking for a whole51800:31:25,170 --> 00:31:28,860bunch of people with mics andheadsets and studios. They're51900:31:28,860 --> 00:31:32,160looking for more, they're tryingto build a library of hits.52000:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,130That's what all these people do.That's what Spotify is doing is52100:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,220what Google is doing. Amazonwill do their own version.52200:31:38,460 --> 00:31:41,370Apple's the only one that justwants people to use their52300:31:41,370 --> 00:31:44,040subscription service. I don'tthink they care much about52400:31:44,250 --> 00:31:47,820anything else. But these peoplethis is all content plays, has52500:31:47,820 --> 00:31:50,850nothing to do with podcasts. Icouldn't give a shit about what52600:31:50,850 --> 00:31:51,300we're doing.52700:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,890No, I agree with that. I guessmy problem is with the numbers52800:31:55,890 --> 00:31:58,350and what that means to theindustry, because these numbers52900:31:58,350 --> 00:31:59,190are just reports.53000:31:59,220 --> 00:32:02,280Yeah, but but they're justreported meaningless. I think my53100:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,920point is, it's meaningless. Itdoesn't really matter, does it?53200:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,700Well, if53300:32:05,700 --> 00:32:08,550you have 40, here's, here's theway like, here's the way James53400:32:08,550 --> 00:32:14,790explained, explains it. He says,Okay, if if, if the survey if53500:32:14,790 --> 00:32:18,210you ask somebody where theylisten to podcasts, and they53600:32:18,210 --> 00:32:22,950tell you YouTube, well, then itdoesn't matter, that YouTube is53700:32:22,950 --> 00:32:26,640not really what we consider apodcast when it matters, that53800:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,670they think that it is a podcast,so therefore, it's a podcast.53900:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,750Now, I don't want I'm notinterested in the debate about54000:32:33,750 --> 00:32:39,570what is a podcast. But what Iknow is that those numbers are54100:32:39,570 --> 00:32:46,440being reported to the podcastindustry, as podcasts. And it's54200:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,790like, it's it's like taking,it's like asking somebody if54300:32:50,790 --> 00:32:55,350they go if they if they watchmovies, but not distinguishing54400:32:55,350 --> 00:33:01,650between the theater, and andtelevision. You if you're taking54500:33:01,650 --> 00:33:04,620these numbers and saying okay,30% of you're absolutely54600:33:04,620 --> 00:33:08,130right, you're absolutely right.It is almost apples to oranges.54700:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,150It misinforms the podcastindustry about what actually54800:33:12,150 --> 00:33:17,400happens. Like France, forinstance, you have if somebody54900:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,120thinks PewDiePie is a podcast,and they say, Oh yeah, I listen55000:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,820to I listen to podcasts onYouTube, yes. Where I listened55100:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,460in in there. And the whole timein their mind. They're thinking55200:33:26,460 --> 00:33:29,970that this video, that this videochannel, they watch all the time55300:33:30,330 --> 00:33:34,320is a quote unquote, podcast,that's fine for that. But then55400:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,640if you take that information andgo tell the podcast industry, in55500:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,940the traditional podcastindustry, that Look here, 40% of55600:33:41,940 --> 00:33:45,420people listen to podcasts onYouTube. And they're like, uh,55700:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,450oh, I don't know what to doabout that. Well, yeah, you55800:33:48,450 --> 00:33:49,950don't know what to do about it,because it's not actually55900:33:49,950 --> 00:33:52,980accurate. with it. Okay, that'smy issue. Yeah.56000:33:53,190 --> 00:33:57,720Just so you know, since day oneon podcasting, the argument of56100:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,110where people listen, and what isthen considered a podcast has56200:34:01,110 --> 00:34:05,220been raging. And to this day,there are people that say, Dude,56300:34:05,430 --> 00:34:09,660I was putting my mic my radioshows on the internet. 1983 I56400:34:09,660 --> 00:34:13,620was the first podcaster. Yeah.Yeah, that argument is boring.56500:34:13,860 --> 00:34:16,440What is integral was interestingto me about all the numbers that56600:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,230I've heard reported and I and asyou know, I really don't put56700:34:19,230 --> 00:34:22,890much I don't care. It's We'rebuilding something. We've got56800:34:23,190 --> 00:34:28,5005000 podcasts that are using it,probably 1000 of those are56900:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,070really using it actively and arestarting to hone their pitch for57000:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,250value for value. But moreimportantly, the authoring tools57100:34:35,250 --> 00:34:38,010are starting to come onlineslow, but they're coming online57200:34:38,010 --> 00:34:41,520and we've let own the All we'vedone is lead by example. That57300:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,250number that I found mostinteresting that something we57400:34:44,250 --> 00:34:51,120can affect is women. A largepercentage of women listen to a57500:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,490podcast on the podcast website.I've seen this myself. I've seen57600:34:56,490 --> 00:35:01,050this myself. That's a humongousoption. tunity for embedded57700:35:01,050 --> 00:35:05,760players, that's an option anembedded player. That is, I57800:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,580mean, we everyone, all of ourapps, I think almost all of them57900:35:08,580 --> 00:35:12,900have at least some web version.And we have some cool sharing58000:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,130widgets. But think about playersand what we can do with the with58100:35:20,130 --> 00:35:25,080the namespace tags, etc, thereto get people to use an app. But58200:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,250even then, I mean, it's, is itinvalid to have someone use the58300:35:29,250 --> 00:35:32,700curio caster embedded playerwith a wallet with everything58400:35:32,700 --> 00:35:37,230there? Versus on the curio?caster.com? PWA?58500:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,240No, no, no,58600:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,180I think the way I think about itis that YouTube is kind of a58700:35:42,180 --> 00:35:46,380good Northstar. As far as userexperience, I think in the58800:35:46,380 --> 00:35:50,340future, let's say video was notthat expensive. Back in the day,58900:35:50,430 --> 00:35:54,000there probably would be five orsix youtubes. But they kind of59000:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,630you know, Google took a massivehit their bandwidth bill is just59100:35:57,630 --> 00:36:02,070insane. But now we're getting tothe point where you could see59200:36:02,070 --> 00:36:05,250almost building a YouTube on alot of the newer edge59300:36:05,250 --> 00:36:08,730technologies that are out there.There's, there's, I think59400:36:08,730 --> 00:36:10,500there's gonna be someinteresting startups that kind59500:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,110of blend what we're doing withpodcasting, and then also59600:36:13,110 --> 00:36:14,520bringing that to video in thefuture.59700:36:15,510 --> 00:36:18,330Alex is doing it by himself.Yeah, yeah.59800:36:18,539 --> 00:36:21,269But I think you'll see kind oflarger companies start to do59900:36:21,269 --> 00:36:23,759this. And then the, but they60000:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,090wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry tointerrupt. You said you see60100:36:27,090 --> 00:36:29,850larger companies starting to dothis, just explain what this is.60200:36:29,850 --> 00:36:30,270Again,60300:36:30,750 --> 00:36:35,310I think building, for example,the, the podcast hosts don't60400:36:35,310 --> 00:36:39,090have apps right now. So if theycome out with a new feature,60500:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,940they're kind of reliant on theapp side to kind of build60600:36:41,940 --> 00:36:46,500everything to, to expose that.But you can imagine that they60700:36:46,500 --> 00:36:50,310would build apps that like cando audio, and then potentially60800:36:50,310 --> 00:36:52,560video as well for theircustomers, just because they60900:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,250know that they can make a greatexperience for their for their61000:36:56,250 --> 00:36:59,790customers. Yeah, well, so Icould, I could see like, and61100:36:59,790 --> 00:37:01,980again, I think just theexperience is what we should61200:37:01,980 --> 00:37:06,630look at YouTube for inspirationfrom and honestly over the what61300:37:06,630 --> 00:37:09,720was it over? I think New Years,I think podcast was like, you61400:37:09,720 --> 00:37:14,490know why? One of one of thesenew podcast features would be61500:37:14,490 --> 00:37:18,690really compelling for, you know,an average podcast listener to61600:37:18,690 --> 00:37:21,390actually switch apps like theywould actually cause them to61700:37:21,390 --> 00:37:22,080switch. Here's61800:37:22,079 --> 00:37:25,349a strike. Here's, here's astriking thought. Because it61900:37:25,349 --> 00:37:31,109just struck me. Should we maybewe should consider redefining62000:37:31,589 --> 00:37:35,309what we're building? Should itonly be apps that are an app62100:37:35,309 --> 00:37:38,729stores? Should it be? Shouldthey always look the way they62200:37:38,729 --> 00:37:41,669look? I don't think so I don'tthink so either. I mean,62300:37:41,939 --> 00:37:47,099creatively, the features havebeen driven by the app62400:37:47,099 --> 00:37:51,899developers 100%. That's the andof course, by the by creators62500:37:51,899 --> 00:37:56,429who are using those elements andasking their tool, suppliers,62600:37:56,429 --> 00:37:59,639which is the hosting companiesto implement that, so they can62700:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,729use it, that that's kind ofthat's how the demand works, and62800:38:02,729 --> 00:38:05,879then how that's how stuff getsin there. There's not a lot of62900:38:06,359 --> 00:38:09,629push coming from the hostingcompanies in that regard.63000:38:11,100 --> 00:38:13,410But we'll see a blend though,because you're gonna see63100:38:13,410 --> 00:38:16,440services that kind of use a lotof the data that were like63200:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,320transcripts is a perfectexample. That's sort of63300:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,020interesting, from just astraight kind of user point of63400:38:22,020 --> 00:38:25,560view, it'll be useful to somepeople. But that is a wealth of63500:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,230information that services aregoing to be able to create, like63600:38:28,260 --> 00:38:32,190amazing search experiences for,for example. So I think you're63700:38:32,190 --> 00:38:36,060gonna see a lot of just webservices kind of read these days63800:38:36,180 --> 00:38:37,020to state as well,63900:38:37,050 --> 00:38:41,670we're in agreement, what I'msaying is, we need the creative,64000:38:41,700 --> 00:38:45,000we need to get our heads out ofour asses as to what a podcast64100:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,410app is, and what people reallywant to work in on it. If women64200:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,690if women, if for womenpredominantly are using a player64300:38:54,690 --> 00:38:58,050on a web page, which is prettysad, if they use and I know64400:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,200they're using it on on some ofmy shows, it's just a simple,64500:39:01,230 --> 00:39:05,520you know, mp3 players ornothing. Why wouldn't we spend64600:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,610the same benefits whether it'san app or not probably more,64700:39:08,610 --> 00:39:11,730even to some degree, we canbuild into those web pages, and64800:39:11,730 --> 00:39:15,300we should be we should be goingwhere people want to be and I64900:39:15,300 --> 00:39:19,110think we're a little too hung upon religion, and that, you know,65000:39:19,140 --> 00:39:26,010oh, Apple, okay. You know, it'slike It's nonsensical numbers. I65100:39:26,010 --> 00:39:26,490don't have a65200:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,280problem with podcast as a termeither. I think that's fine to65300:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,740kind of, even though it's kindof a horrible name. It's kind of65400:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,890like it right now. everyone kindof knows it is it's the non65500:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,940mainstream sort of media look,delivery system. And so I think65600:39:38,940 --> 00:39:42,000people no matter what the appsend up looking like, and I think65700:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,820like you said, I agree there'sgoing to be 1000s of different65800:39:44,820 --> 00:39:47,760types of apps. I think thenotion of podcasts as the65900:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,830overall term for this is stilluseful.66000:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,170Yeah, I think what matters isthat the the delay the source of66100:39:55,170 --> 00:39:58,770the delivery, and the end pointwhere it's delivered to maintain66200:39:58,770 --> 00:40:02,850decentralization What What nowhow you know how that looks,66300:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,610whether or not you're serving,serving it out of object66400:40:05,610 --> 00:40:11,220storage, or off servers, or offIPFS on the back end, or whether66500:40:11,220 --> 00:40:14,280or not you're consuming it witha mobile app, or a website or a66600:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,600PWA, or an embedded player onthe on the edge. I don't think66700:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,150either one of those thingsreally matter as long as they66800:40:21,150 --> 00:40:25,110stay that way, as long as theystay decentralized. But that's66900:40:25,110 --> 00:40:28,140my problem with that's myproblem with with the whole67000:40:28,140 --> 00:40:33,330YouTube conversation, like ChrisFisher on brought a clip of67100:40:33,330 --> 00:40:36,540Chris Fisher, talking about thisvery thing on the latest episode67200:40:36,540 --> 00:40:41,970of coder radio. And he's talkingabout his about what he sees67300:40:41,970 --> 00:40:44,640going on in the industry. If youwant to play that clip,67400:40:45,150 --> 00:40:47,760that's I've been feeling thesame way on the in the podcast67500:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,270space, today, it came out thatYouTube is offering like67600:40:51,270 --> 00:40:56,460$50,000, to certain podcastersto take their audio only podcast67700:40:56,460 --> 00:40:59,970and make it a video podcast. Andthen you know, start using their67800:40:59,970 --> 00:41:03,780ads and stuff like that. And youknow, you watch what Spotify is67900:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,680doing. You watch what Apple isdoing. You see what Lipson68000:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,100trying to do with suppressing adprices. And YouTube is trying to68100:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,520do by taking over podcasting andI start thinking to myself, How68200:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,560the hell am I gonna be able tostay independent for the next68300:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,610five years, it's getting really,really centralized out there.68400:41:20,940 --> 00:41:24,120For some, like the rumors asmuch as $300,000, the offers,68500:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,320which I still find ridiculous$50,000 Couldn't even convert a68600:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,050single one of our podcastvideos, think about it. That68700:41:31,050 --> 00:41:33,900doesn't even pay for a year of avideo editor, not to mention68800:41:33,900 --> 00:41:38,310camera equipment, lighting,sets, editing equipment, I mean,68900:41:38,310 --> 00:41:41,400give me a break. $50,000 isspent in one weekend buying the69000:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,210gear? Well, that makes no sense.Yeah, but they're trying to69100:41:45,210 --> 00:41:48,870incentivize a centralization ofpodcasters. Because once you go69200:41:48,870 --> 00:41:51,990into the YouTube platform, youcreate content for the69300:41:51,990 --> 00:41:56,010algorithm. And you you have tocreate content that's also69400:41:56,010 --> 00:42:00,750appealing to the ad bot becauseit's it's all an auction system69500:42:00,900 --> 00:42:05,490behind the scenes. And theauction system has preferences,69600:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,180it looks for brands savecontent, and brand save content69700:42:09,570 --> 00:42:12,570is not only the type of thingsthat you cover, but it's the69800:42:12,570 --> 00:42:15,660genre of you that you cover aswell. I look at independent69900:42:15,660 --> 00:42:19,470podcast operations. And I justthink, I don't even know if most70000:42:19,470 --> 00:42:21,570of them are going to make it thenext couple of years. I think70100:42:21,570 --> 00:42:23,790it's really, it's really bleakout there.70200:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,800Alright, I'm gonna take this inreverse order. First of all, the70300:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,130only reason this is a news isbecause there's money involved.70400:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,680Whenever there's money, andthere's free money, people70500:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,860always get all money, money,money. And there's always all70600:42:37,860 --> 00:42:40,920kinds of thinking that goesalong, and there's feelings and70700:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,300shit that happens. Whereas 99%of all podcasters probably will70800:42:45,300 --> 00:42:51,270never make or should make anymoney. The bigger travesty here70900:42:51,330 --> 00:42:56,580is not people using YouTube orwhatever to listen to podcast,71000:42:56,670 --> 00:43:01,200the travesty is that creatorsput it there. If you want to71100:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,850create a community that isprofitable, both on a creative71200:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,080and business level, you need tocontrol that community. That's71300:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,970the bottom line. I don't care ifif you're using if you're71400:43:14,970 --> 00:43:20,490streaming live with with anytube and using curio caster, you71500:43:20,490 --> 00:43:23,430still need to have control overyour community, which is what71600:43:23,430 --> 00:43:27,090we're doing and what we'rebuilding. People are realizing,71700:43:27,420 --> 00:43:30,630gee, you know, it's not such agreat deal, there will always be71800:43:30,690 --> 00:43:33,660a whole bunch of fools who gothe same who go to the major71900:43:33,660 --> 00:43:38,340labels, that's not going to endanytime soon. The people always72000:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,160follow the money and they thinkthat where the money is, is72100:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,860where the audience is, but youhave no connection when you have72200:43:43,860 --> 00:43:47,850to go to all these differentplaces. You really don't own72300:43:47,850 --> 00:43:50,730your audience, you and when byown I mean you don't have them72400:43:51,090 --> 00:43:56,100in a place like no agenda has,that we've never done any any72500:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,640kind of marketing or any or beenput on other we've In fact, we72600:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,450refuse to be put on Spotify. Butwe did put that up on Mastodon72700:44:03,450 --> 00:44:03,960server.72800:44:05,099 --> 00:44:08,339What What concerns me aboutabout YouTube getting into this,72900:44:08,339 --> 00:44:11,759and I don't disagree with whatyou're what you're saying. I73000:44:11,759 --> 00:44:17,369guess from a technologystandpoint, I think that, John,73100:44:17,759 --> 00:44:20,189you know, what you were sayingearlier is that if a whole bunch73200:44:20,189 --> 00:44:23,519of cabal of huge tech gottogether and wanted to reformat73300:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,599the system, they they couldprobably do it and this is this73400:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,439is my concern is thedecentralization if it gets73500:44:31,439 --> 00:44:35,639under attack from a big playerlike YouTube, and it comes in73600:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,909from the sort of comes inthrough the back door where Oh,73700:44:39,089 --> 00:44:43,349YouTube is getting intopodcasting. Well, yeah, but then73800:44:43,379 --> 00:44:46,559what is the net result of thatis the net result of that it is73900:44:46,559 --> 00:44:51,059going to be to destroy everybodyelse's business. And in take74000:44:51,059 --> 00:44:52,229away this precious74100:44:52,260 --> 00:44:55,860but how I don't I don'tunderstand how I fail to see how74200:44:56,220 --> 00:44:59,190seems like there's a lot offear, YouTube's going to come in74300:44:59,190 --> 00:45:01,860and they're going to stompEverybody, that's a big74400:45:01,860 --> 00:45:06,570presumption. I, I really, I'mnot so sure that's true.74500:45:06,630 --> 00:45:09,810And also having done a tour ofduty in one of these places as74600:45:09,810 --> 00:45:10,140well.74700:45:11,039 --> 00:45:13,979As Oh, like anybody else.Exactly. And74800:45:14,070 --> 00:45:16,980the one thing that actuallyreally that they'll spend their74900:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,610time in the shower thinkingabout and, you know, neglect75000:45:20,610 --> 00:45:24,150their revenue per user. No, it'scompetition actually.75100:45:25,260 --> 00:45:29,070Interesting. They could notespecially tech people, I think75200:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,530they really cannot stand anothertech company coming out with75300:45:31,530 --> 00:45:33,510another product that they'relike, Oh, we could have built75400:45:33,510 --> 00:45:36,810this. And they will copy it,they'll spend all of their I75500:45:36,810 --> 00:45:40,410mean, look at what Google didwith Google Plus. So I think75600:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,530what we're doing is exactlycorrect. And that is kind of75700:45:43,530 --> 00:45:47,880like showing away, hey, this isa, this is an innovative feature75800:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,580that all of these podcast appsare going to find useful. No75900:45:50,580 --> 00:45:54,360matter if it's a traditionalclient app or service, I think76000:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,030you guys have done a really goodjob of kind of keeping the76100:45:57,420 --> 00:46:00,030features at an abstract level.So it's like, here's how to76200:46:00,030 --> 00:46:02,370represent value, here's how torepresent, you know, we're76300:46:02,370 --> 00:46:05,070talking about comments. And allthese things are kind of like76400:46:05,070 --> 00:46:07,320they're going to be structureddata that's broadly applicable76500:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,270to any of these apps. And again,76600:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,830and it creates an ecosystemlonger term of tool providers.76700:46:13,830 --> 00:46:17,580And you know, I use Well, Idon't I use hyper captcha, I use76800:46:17,580 --> 00:46:21,150that with Dred Scott. And hedoes the chapters and, and he76900:46:21,150 --> 00:46:28,050gets 10% of some 5% of the ofthe of every single show I'm77000:46:28,050 --> 00:46:32,280involved in, through the throughthe value blog split. And we77100:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,110need lots more of these typesof, of tools and services to77200:46:37,110 --> 00:46:40,950come online. And some of thosewill eventually be folded into,77300:46:41,190 --> 00:46:44,820or purchased by hostingcompanies. I mean, this is, this77400:46:44,820 --> 00:46:50,850is not something that you canmeasure, report to report, you77500:46:50,850 --> 00:46:55,470know, and even to be honest,also, these even though I hear77600:46:55,470 --> 00:46:58,440we come out smelling reallygood. I don't like report cards.77700:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,800I don't you know, I just I justwant to see what people are77800:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,640actually doing and using? Andif, if, why are they using77900:47:05,670 --> 00:47:11,550YouTube, I'll tell you, here'swhat I heard the most. It's on78000:47:11,550 --> 00:47:17,100my YouTube app faster than it'son my podcast app. And they're78100:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,710not watching. They're just usingthe app so they can keep it78200:47:19,710 --> 00:47:22,380closed and listen to it. It'sthe same as hitting play on a78300:47:22,380 --> 00:47:26,850web page. If people continue toupload to web pages like78400:47:26,910 --> 00:47:30,420YouTube, then people are goingto listen to their podcast over78500:47:30,420 --> 00:47:34,200on YouTube. If you're notmissing out, you know, yeah,78600:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,110maybe some programmatic algothing that you're but did78700:47:37,110 --> 00:47:40,380podcast discovery, it's not howpodcasts are discovered is word78800:47:40,380 --> 00:47:44,490of mouth. It's that's howpodcasts grow, not through any78900:47:44,490 --> 00:47:47,550other mechanism. It's just adifferent beast. But if people79000:47:47,550 --> 00:47:50,070want to listen to it on a webpage, let's make a great79100:47:50,070 --> 00:47:54,180experience. Doesn't matter ifit's on a web page or or in an79200:47:54,180 --> 00:47:55,380app, it's the same thing.79300:47:55,770 --> 00:48:01,320Well, that's probably the otherthing that podcasting as a as a79400:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,310technology. And as a platformhas that other platforms do not,79500:48:05,310 --> 00:48:09,930which is the pace of innovationand how fast we can change79600:48:09,930 --> 00:48:15,330things. Because like I had afantastic call, did a zoom call79700:48:15,330 --> 00:48:19,290with some guys out of Australia.This past week, I think it was79800:48:19,290 --> 00:48:24,510like maybe Wednesday or Tuesday.And it's an app that they've79900:48:24,510 --> 00:48:27,210it's on the app stores on theiOS App Store is called visie80000:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,030vs. Easy, why? They justreleased it all. And they're80100:48:30,060 --> 00:48:33,090waiting for it to be released onAndroid. And it's sort of this,80200:48:33,300 --> 00:48:38,580this interesting mix thisinteresting hybrid thing where80300:48:38,970 --> 00:48:42,180they've got a they've got a backend platform web based platform80400:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,420where you can go like claim yourpodcast public. And when you80500:48:45,450 --> 00:48:48,840publish your episode, you canthen go through an ad these80600:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,830chapter markers with affiliatelinks and all bunch of stuff is80700:48:52,830 --> 00:48:55,680basically like thesehypercharged chapter. Thanks80800:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,770very similar to what I thinkBenjamin Bellamy was wanting80900:48:58,770 --> 00:49:01,530with podcast recommendations tagto be able to sort of like81000:49:01,530 --> 00:49:06,000deliver all kinds of interestingin points to the listeners81100:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,180through chapters. And thenthey've gotten in, they've got81200:49:09,180 --> 00:49:12,120an app that goes with it to showtheir sort of enriched chapter81300:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,020content. And, you know, theysaid, Well, you know, one of81400:49:16,020 --> 00:49:18,420their goals is to dointegrations with this host81500:49:18,420 --> 00:49:23,160hosting companies in the futureand be able to, to take chapters81600:49:23,190 --> 00:49:26,970in suck them in and then addthis, this, this content to it.81700:49:27,420 --> 00:49:32,430So I mean, like things like thatare coming on board. And that's81800:49:32,430 --> 00:49:35,490something like you can't writeplugins for YouTube. You can't81900:49:35,490 --> 00:49:39,960extend these arguments at all.And the ability to take to take82000:49:39,990 --> 00:49:44,040an idea and build on it and makeit better. Is is maybe the82100:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,810killer feature of podcasting.82200:49:45,839 --> 00:49:49,709But look at look at the wherethe power is the power is with82300:49:50,159 --> 00:49:54,959the developers. The power iswith the creators. That's the82400:49:54,959 --> 00:49:58,409bottom line. They literallypaying people to come to their82500:49:58,409 --> 00:50:02,219sorry as platform doesn't gottasay this guy. I mean, you know,82600:50:02,489 --> 00:50:07,499we're not paying anybody to comeand use podcasting 2.0. So this82700:50:07,499 --> 00:50:11,699fear this and this constantreporting about the job, the82800:50:11,699 --> 00:50:17,489percentages and and oh my god,it's so boring. It's just82900:50:17,489 --> 00:50:21,929boring. I don't care. I reallydon't it's not it's not it's not83000:50:21,929 --> 00:50:25,769important. There will never be aking of all media. It's just83100:50:25,799 --> 00:50:28,619it's too fragmented. It's goingto be even more fragmented.83200:50:28,619 --> 00:50:34,409We're seeing newspapers, andtelevision and radio in the83300:50:34,409 --> 00:50:37,499traditional sense. And I knowthat I'll get pushed back83400:50:37,499 --> 00:50:41,279because yes, there's a trilliondollars in advertising still83500:50:41,279 --> 00:50:45,929being made in radio, but it isdying slowly, is dying, and we83600:50:45,929 --> 00:50:51,239are rocketing up. And the samegoes for podcasting. 1.0. You83700:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,379know, it's coming.83800:50:53,309 --> 00:50:58,049But you mentioned payment. And Ithink, I think I can, I'll put83900:50:58,049 --> 00:51:00,629up my more conspiracy theorieson this podcast, because I don't84000:51:00,629 --> 00:51:04,079know that people listen to it.But if I think one of the more84100:51:04,079 --> 00:51:07,199interesting things, if you everget value to value or value for84200:51:07,199 --> 00:51:13,079value working? Is it going inreverse? I think I've had an84300:51:13,079 --> 00:51:16,199early streaming app on Android,you get to see like how people84400:51:16,199 --> 00:51:19,499actually use your app, and whatis important to people. And I84500:51:19,499 --> 00:51:22,229think it's important, or I thinkwhat I found was really84600:51:22,229 --> 00:51:26,339interesting is that people areextremely price sensitive. And84700:51:26,339 --> 00:51:28,739people will go through all sortsof hoops to like not pay for84800:51:28,739 --> 00:51:35,999stuff. And so I think, I thinkthe idea of paying listeners as84900:51:35,999 --> 00:51:40,499a as a as a kind of incentive tocome over to your to it like85000:51:40,499 --> 00:51:42,569another app or something likethat is actually pretty85100:51:42,569 --> 00:51:45,689compelling. I know. Google, forexample, would probably pay85200:51:45,809 --> 00:51:48,899people to log in and search ifthey could, but there's just no85300:51:48,899 --> 00:51:52,889mechanism exists. I had to haveeveryone who have wallets, I85400:51:52,889 --> 00:51:56,489think the whole idea of kind oflike, Hey, here's a way to85500:51:56,489 --> 00:51:59,969market that doesn't penalize thelistener and actually add some85600:51:59,969 --> 00:52:01,859value to the listener. I thinkthat could be really85700:52:01,859 --> 00:52:02,339interesting.85800:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,350I disagree. And that's onlyrecently that I've thought about85900:52:07,350 --> 00:52:11,460this, then we I think we'retalking with Roy from breeze86000:52:11,460 --> 00:52:15,540about it. And I think when youpay people to come in and use86100:52:15,540 --> 00:52:19,710your stuff, and in this case,you're not saying Come listen to86200:52:19,710 --> 00:52:23,850Joe Rogan on on curio cast,you're saying come use curio86300:52:23,850 --> 00:52:26,940caster, I don't think that's theway it works.86400:52:27,390 --> 00:52:29,790No, it'd be more more likemarketing, right? Where it's86500:52:29,790 --> 00:52:33,870like, instead of paying overcastto show something, you would86600:52:33,870 --> 00:52:36,630say, Hey, you're gonna feel goodabout listening to this, because86700:52:36,630 --> 00:52:39,510you're gonna get some, I don'tknow, it's kind of like play to86800:52:39,510 --> 00:52:42,090pay games, almost. But I doagree. You don't want to bring86900:52:42,090 --> 00:52:43,110in people just for that87000:52:43,140 --> 00:52:47,010you're gonna get you're gonnaget Yeah. I don't like it as a87100:52:47,010 --> 00:52:50,790marketing tactic to buycustomers in that manner.87200:52:50,790 --> 00:52:55,230Because I think particularly ifyou're giving people money, the87300:52:55,230 --> 00:52:57,090same people will come and getfree money.87400:52:57,989 --> 00:52:59,909It's like, what was that oldsearch engine, there was an old87500:52:59,909 --> 00:53:02,849search engine that would pay youto search I think was like x 1287600:53:02,849 --> 00:53:06,629or something like that way backlike.com era? I think they just87700:53:06,659 --> 00:53:08,819the payment system doesn'treally allow for it now, where87800:53:08,819 --> 00:53:11,369if you guys figure out payments,then I think that'll be well.87900:53:11,369 --> 00:53:12,869What part have we not figuredout?88000:53:14,369 --> 00:53:17,039Well, the going the other wayagain, and more kind of like,88100:53:17,129 --> 00:53:19,169you know, it's got to be alittle easier than it is now.88200:53:19,620 --> 00:53:23,160Oh, of course, of course, it'sgot to be easier than we are in.88300:53:23,490 --> 00:53:26,760I mean, we're we're havingarguments about channel fees,88400:53:26,760 --> 00:53:31,020which will be meeting Nolan voidin a year from now. This is this88500:53:31,020 --> 00:53:32,730is going incredibly fast.88600:53:32,969 --> 00:53:35,099Yeah. And it's really excitingto because you see everything.88700:53:35,129 --> 00:53:36,929It's kind of cool, becauseeverything is coming together at88800:53:36,929 --> 00:53:39,329the right time. You know,lightning is kind of well, not a88900:53:39,329 --> 00:53:41,309lot different places other thanpodcasting, not,89000:53:41,489 --> 00:53:45,239not just that, but people arerealizing they're getting89100:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,359screwed by pig tech is my newone. Pig tech is the exact89200:53:48,539 --> 00:53:52,289they're getting screwed by pigtech. D platform. They're deep89300:53:52,289 --> 00:53:58,559platforming countries now. Imean, people are are aware of89400:53:58,559 --> 00:54:00,689this. They're awake, they'restarting to make different89500:54:00,689 --> 00:54:01,409choices.89600:54:01,469 --> 00:54:04,139Well, if only there was somesort of federated version of89700:54:04,139 --> 00:54:05,909Twitter that we could kind ofbuild on.89800:54:06,179 --> 00:54:08,909Could we put that into the appscreen? Could we put that into89900:54:08,909 --> 00:54:11,369the apps for comments thateverybody could see no matter90000:54:11,369 --> 00:54:14,369what, what that was a greatidea. And it could work even on90100:54:14,729 --> 00:54:17,369and it could even work in a inan embedded player on a web90200:54:17,369 --> 00:54:19,949page. What a grand idea. Do youhave any thoughts about that90300:54:19,949 --> 00:54:20,909John Spurlock?90400:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,300I want to hear about No, no. Iwant to hear about the format90500:54:24,300 --> 00:54:28,380war between lightning commentsand activity pub. This is90600:54:28,410 --> 00:54:29,580clearly going to be afraid90700:54:29,580 --> 00:54:32,970of losing losing this war. Who'sin this war?90800:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,770Did you listen to pod land? Ihaven't heard. I haven't. I have90900:54:37,770 --> 00:54:38,940some thoughts on this. And I91000:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,160didn't get it. Tell me tell mewhat the premise was because I91100:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,620didn't I didn't hear this yet.Like, go91200:54:43,620 --> 00:54:46,410ahead. Well, basically, it'sthat we have to comment systems,91300:54:46,410 --> 00:54:50,490right? Nominally, we havebooster grams, which kind of go91400:54:50,490 --> 00:54:53,280over the Lightning Network. Andthen we're talking about kind of91500:54:53,280 --> 00:54:59,970more general like Twitter typecomments for each episode and91600:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,360thinking was I think, hey, nowdevelopers have to support both.91700:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,140But I responded to Oscar on hisGitHub thing. And I think91800:55:07,140 --> 00:55:10,140actually what he's doing isreally good in that we need some91900:55:10,140 --> 00:55:15,300sort of way of reading theselightning comments right now, if92000:55:15,300 --> 00:55:19,560I'm an app, I can't read boostergrams. So that's a problem. And92100:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,190so I think tools like Halla padwill is one way of solving them.92200:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,460But I do think it's worththinking about how to expose92300:55:26,460 --> 00:55:29,850that in some sort of JSONformatted way. So I think that92400:55:29,850 --> 00:55:32,730protocol that he's come up withis actually might be a really92500:55:32,730 --> 00:55:35,790good starting point for how todo that. But how I see that is92600:55:35,790 --> 00:55:38,820it's basically he's coming upwith a protocol. So it's almost92700:55:38,820 --> 00:55:41,850like he's coming up with aprotocol that we could slot in,92800:55:42,570 --> 00:55:47,700as a social interact platform,along with any other social92900:55:47,700 --> 00:55:50,670interact platforms that you havefor that episode. So what I was93000:55:50,670 --> 00:55:52,650seeing is that you could havesomething like, here's where to93100:55:52,650 --> 00:55:55,620go for activity pub comments forthis episode. And here's where93200:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,890to go for lightning comments.And it's a way to get people not93300:55:58,890 --> 00:56:02,070exclusively into one or theother. So it kind of like lets93400:56:02,070 --> 00:56:06,150people go into lightninggradually. So to me, I think93500:56:06,150 --> 00:56:08,970it's like people forget that thesocial interact tag is like not93600:56:09,030 --> 00:56:12,090exclusive. It says, well, here'swhere to go on Twitter for this93700:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,550episode, right? Here's where togo on the fediverse for this93800:56:14,550 --> 00:56:17,310episode, and I think it's reallyimportant to say, here's where93900:56:17,310 --> 00:56:19,620to go to get the booster gramsfor this episode, which right94000:56:19,620 --> 00:56:22,380now is impossible. But what'scool about what Benjamin has94100:56:22,380 --> 00:56:25,830done is that he's created a tagthat will basically work for94200:56:25,830 --> 00:56:30,720that. You can specify, you know,one or more kind of platforms94300:56:30,720 --> 00:56:31,440for each episode. So94400:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,290let me let me just say somethingabout the publishing of booster94500:56:34,290 --> 00:56:37,530grams, because, you know, we'vepioneered the value for value94600:56:37,530 --> 00:56:44,190model. And the reason you have abooster gram in the value for94700:56:44,190 --> 00:56:49,650value model, initially, and it'sopen for interpretation, is the94800:56:49,650 --> 00:56:54,390feedback loop. Which is okay,I'd like you to support the94900:56:54,390 --> 00:56:57,540show, whatever it's worth toyou, that comes back. And then95000:56:57,540 --> 00:57:00,390the intent the way it's beenworking, there may be other ways95100:57:00,390 --> 00:57:03,420to do it. But the way it's beenworking, has, then you read out95200:57:03,420 --> 00:57:09,360the message. And we like noagenda, we don't publish all95300:57:09,510 --> 00:57:13,140messages. And we publish zerothose messages, we tell95400:57:13,140 --> 00:57:17,040everybody, and we may, we mayskip around and read through it95500:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,610or, you know, sometimes there'sno message which is, you know,95600:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,730with booster rams is is morerare. I'm not necessarily sure95700:57:26,730 --> 00:57:30,600that that the future of boostergrams is to have them published95800:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,830everywhere. In fact, I think itdetracts from what you can95900:57:34,830 --> 00:57:36,330actually do with value forvalue.96000:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,400And they may be I may not beencapsulating your feelings on96100:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,000this job. But I think, I think,John, I think what, what you're96200:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,180saying there's a terminalterminology problem here. And96300:57:48,180 --> 00:57:52,950booster grams is sort of a catchall phrase, that means anytime96400:57:52,950 --> 00:57:55,980somebody sends you sends amessage on lightning. And that's96500:57:55,980 --> 00:58:01,680not exactly what Oscar isproposing. Because he's in a, in96600:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,380a thing think that when we, whenwe talk about it, it comes96700:58:04,380 --> 00:58:09,210across garbled. But I thinklike, what, what Oscar is96800:58:09,210 --> 00:58:13,620proposing, and I think whatyou're talking about John, is,96900:58:14,550 --> 00:58:19,350is lightning comments, beingjust another style of comment97000:58:19,380 --> 00:58:22,740where there's a different TLVrecord, and it's its own thing.97100:58:23,010 --> 00:58:27,240And then the booster grams are,you know, those are still point97200:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,750to point within the app. It's anapp, it's an app to it's a97300:58:30,750 --> 00:58:35,550listener to podcaster message,then you have this other thing97400:58:35,550 --> 00:58:40,590called a boost called alightning comment. And just if97500:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,360they could mix, or they mightnot, and but but but there's97600:58:46,679 --> 00:58:50,279Sorry, sorry, I think isn't thatthe purview of the podcaster97700:58:50,279 --> 00:58:52,709though? I mean, I guess I'm moreliberal on this, like, you could97800:58:52,709 --> 00:58:55,379have a podcaster that wants toshow them and then one that97900:58:55,379 --> 00:58:56,039wants to filter98000:58:56,039 --> 00:59:01,229you can you can you can my pointis I know what works I'm not so98100:59:01,229 --> 00:59:03,539sure this works really well. I'mnot98200:59:03,539 --> 00:59:07,019well, because Because boostergrams the way we do it is part98300:59:07,019 --> 00:59:08,129of its show content.98400:59:08,190 --> 00:59:11,280Well that's how they're supposedto work that the intent that's98500:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,220how the value for value loopwork. I'm not saying that's the98600:59:14,220 --> 00:59:17,760only way you can do whatever youwant. I don't even like having a98700:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,050Twitter and and an a mass and Iwould rather Why don't you have98800:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,400a if you want to publish it puta bot that connects your booster98900:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,290grams to your Mastodon or youractivity pub. I'm not so sure99000:59:31,290 --> 00:59:33,870that it's a good idea to haveall these these different ways99100:59:33,870 --> 00:59:37,500to do it. It's okay. I mean, wecan also have five different99200:59:37,500 --> 00:59:41,250types of crypto in in the Valleyfor value payments, which we99300:59:41,250 --> 00:59:41,610don't.99400:59:42,270 --> 00:59:48,270Well, the you know, the issuehere is that I don't even look99500:59:48,270 --> 00:59:50,760at I don't even look at thebooster cramps during the week.99600:59:50,790 --> 00:59:53,760I print them off right beforethe show because I don't want to99700:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,700know what they are before weread them because it's show99800:59:56,700 --> 01:00:00,750content and if you publish themin advance then all your99901:00:00,750 --> 01:00:04,530listeners already know half ofthe show. And and it's it's not100001:00:04,530 --> 01:00:09,270as exciting. It's you don't getto hear the new the new content100101:00:09,300 --> 01:00:13,800and so like, but but with alightning comments system, you100201:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,250can gateway those things howeveryou want to so if you had, if100301:00:17,250 --> 01:00:21,720you if you were acceptinglightning comments and on an100401:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,190episode, and in those commentsthat you know our comments are100501:00:26,190 --> 01:00:28,920getting, they could be read, itcould be gatewayed out to100601:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,280activity pub or anything elseyou wanted them to be, I don't100701:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,760see them as being mutuallyexclusive to activity pub and100801:00:35,760 --> 01:00:36,090all.100901:00:37,020 --> 01:00:41,430If I may, it's beautiful to hearyou speak that way. Because I101001:00:41,430 --> 01:00:46,260hear you, at one point talkinglike a content creator. And the101101:00:46,260 --> 01:00:48,840other one, I hear you talking asa software developer101201:00:48,870 --> 01:00:53,340technologist, there's a hugelack of people listening to what101301:00:53,340 --> 01:01:01,050creators want hugely lack. Andso we wind up sometimes creating101401:01:01,050 --> 01:01:04,890all kinds of things, or we arein danger of creating things101501:01:05,880 --> 01:01:10,620that people just might not windup using, or using in a101601:01:10,620 --> 01:01:13,680completely different way andthen crippled because we weren't101701:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,730communicating.101801:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,640Well, you've called me down onthis for years ever, you know,101901:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,800we've we've always hadconversations, phone102001:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,640conversations where, you know, Isaid, Hey, I just built this102101:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,430thing into the framework trelareditor that's gonna let you do102201:01:26,430 --> 01:01:28,800so and so. And you're like,Yeah, but that's not the way I102301:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,160do things. Right. And, andyou're like, let me let me go102401:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,820over and tell you exactly whatmy workflow is. And you lay it102501:01:35,820 --> 01:01:38,850out. And then I like, Oh, I getthis, like the light bulb goes102601:01:38,850 --> 01:01:39,030off.102701:01:39,060 --> 01:01:44,820So to me, cross app comments intheir origin, are extremely102801:01:44,820 --> 01:01:50,250exciting, because I just want tohave an app that I use, and I'm102901:01:50,250 --> 01:01:55,950not so worried about, if I canthen go and transport my profile103001:01:55,950 --> 01:01:59,040to another app. I appreciatethat we're thinking about these103101:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,740things, even though we stilldon't have OPML import and103201:02:01,740 --> 01:02:07,440exports anywhere. We're notenough that I just don't think103301:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,650it's that important. We wantcomments and apps that work103401:02:10,650 --> 01:02:11,730across the apps.103501:02:12,180 --> 01:02:14,460Yeah, and I think we're lookingwait on the road on some of this103601:02:14,460 --> 01:02:17,640stuff. I think the older I getthe more kind of like pragmatic,103701:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,610I'm like, Well, this is not aproblem, because no one is103801:02:20,610 --> 01:02:24,090commenting anywhere. Now, it'slike RSS is that we kind of need103901:02:24,090 --> 01:02:28,890to see the feed with structureddata. So this is gonna, like we104001:02:28,890 --> 01:02:31,140were talking about before forapps that want to check out.104101:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,630This is not a user facing, butlet's say they just want to104201:02:33,630 --> 01:02:36,780follow the, you know, ingest thecomments for searching as well.104301:02:36,780 --> 01:02:40,860All of that is useful in thefeed as we've described. So I104401:02:40,860 --> 01:02:43,710think we are not even thinkingof all the possibilities that.104501:02:45,059 --> 01:02:48,569And again, I'll come back to thenumbers. I'm not so focused on104601:02:48,569 --> 01:02:53,219what YouTube may or may not bedoing. But when I hear women, a104701:02:53,219 --> 01:02:58,199large segment of women listen topodcasts on the podcast page104801:02:58,199 --> 01:03:02,669itself. We shame on all of usshame on the hosting companies.104901:03:02,789 --> 01:03:06,539Shame on us. Shame on me.Because105001:03:06,569 --> 01:03:08,999I know I've been seeing a lot ofpeople going over to good pods.105101:03:09,029 --> 01:03:11,639Have you guys checked out goodpods yet? It's actually kind of105201:03:11,639 --> 01:03:15,569a good app. But it's one of itsbiggest features is comments.105301:03:15,630 --> 01:03:19,200Right? But it's it's closed off.It's a closed actually. And so105401:03:19,200 --> 01:03:25,020that's an and I'm sure they'refine people. I think I'm even I105501:03:25,020 --> 01:03:27,600think I may even be doing apodcast with the CEO or105601:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,290something. And I'm so I'll learna lot more. But you know, when105701:03:31,290 --> 01:03:35,100it's when it's a closed offcommunity? Well, that's the105801:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,280thing we're trying to get awayfrom. That's exactly why we're105901:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,390doing this as we I let Applebecome the the on ramp to106001:03:42,390 --> 01:03:46,440podcasting. We shouldn't allowanyone to be the on ramp to106101:03:46,440 --> 01:03:47,250comments.106201:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,550Well take. Let's talk about goodpause for a second. Would a106301:03:50,550 --> 01:03:53,730company like good pods? Is thisis theoretical, because we don't106401:03:53,730 --> 01:03:59,040know them? What a company likegood pods be willing to publish106501:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,250back out their comments asactivity pub? Or do they see106601:04:02,250 --> 01:04:05,040that as some sort of proprietaryadvantage over the market?106701:04:05,490 --> 01:04:09,780Well, what is their business? Idon't know. The reason why we106801:04:09,780 --> 01:04:16,950can even discuss this is becausewe have no business. Yeah. So I106901:04:16,950 --> 01:04:22,170would think that for in general,most of these types of companies107001:04:22,470 --> 01:04:27,360need to contain their users tosome degree, because that's the107101:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,290value. It's their RP use, ortheir, you know, their value for107201:04:31,290 --> 01:04:34,800whatever whatever metric they'reusing. And I believe they're,107301:04:34,830 --> 01:04:38,580they're funded. So they have Ithink to have investors could be107401:04:38,580 --> 01:04:39,240wrong. I worry107501:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,880about pod chaser more than Iworry about good pods in that107601:04:41,880 --> 01:04:42,270respect.107701:04:42,300 --> 01:04:44,940I don't worry. I don't worryabout any of it. I've seen all107801:04:44,940 --> 01:04:47,910this come and go. I've seen AOLcome and go107901:04:48,150 --> 01:04:51,090possible integration. I think itwould be cool if I actually108001:04:51,090 --> 01:04:54,090think that main hurdle for a lotof these apps and they've just108101:04:54,090 --> 01:04:57,240flipped a bit is do I wantcomments at all? Because it is108201:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,600it's a technical thing, but it'salso a it's a head Right, I108301:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,990mean, you are onboarding, usergenerated content and all that.108401:05:03,990 --> 01:05:08,010So I think a lot of apps have tomake that first decision, do I108501:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,580want to sign up for this? And noamount of magic activity pub108601:05:11,580 --> 01:05:14,940sauce is gonna kind of save themfrom some of that now we can108701:05:14,970 --> 01:05:18,420create components that make alot of this easier. But I think108801:05:18,420 --> 01:05:21,330there's still a fundamentalthing of do I want to integrate108901:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,120user base comments in my app?And is that going to be a109001:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,730feature that I promote? I thinkgood parts has already crossed109101:05:26,730 --> 01:05:29,730that. So I could see them atsome point, if there's a109201:05:29,730 --> 01:05:32,250thriving community elsewhere ofthem bringing it in as well. I'm109301:05:32,250 --> 01:05:35,130not, I don't know anyone overthere. But I think from what109401:05:35,130 --> 01:05:38,700I've seen, so far, they'vedemonstrated that it's, it's a109501:05:38,700 --> 01:05:39,510valuable thing.109601:05:40,260 --> 01:05:45,510But so when it comes to pay,like, there's this issue of109701:05:45,780 --> 01:05:49,830paying for comments, and that'svery distasteful, which is part109801:05:49,830 --> 01:05:54,240of the lightning comments, youknow, thing is, we can all agree109901:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,050that if you have to pay forcomments, that it's going to110001:05:58,050 --> 01:06:01,500increase the quality of thecomment. I mean, to some degree,110101:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,050you're going to be less likelyto have spam and that kind of110201:06:04,050 --> 01:06:06,690thing. But then there's theethical thing of Do you want to110301:06:06,690 --> 01:06:10,500have to make somebody pay tocomment? And the answer is no,110401:06:10,950 --> 01:06:16,440you don't, you don't want to bethat way. But in that regard, I110501:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,330think that's you, it's okay tohave both things exist, like a110601:06:21,330 --> 01:06:26,460lightning comment system whereyou where you do, the app says,110701:06:26,460 --> 01:06:29,400Okay, I want I don't want tohave to deal with the headaches110801:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,150of spam. So I want to enablecomments only for people who are110901:06:33,150 --> 01:06:37,860willing to give up one Satoshi,which you know, 1/100 of a cent.111001:06:38,460 --> 01:06:43,200I want. That's the choice that Imake for my app. And then you111101:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,050have this other app that says,No, I'm a free for all want, I111201:06:46,050 --> 01:06:49,620want everything. And because youcan go back out to the hole,111301:06:49,650 --> 01:06:53,580because you can gateway it backout to the world. Either way,111401:06:54,180 --> 01:06:57,930then we all get the benefit ofseeing both both things in111501:06:57,930 --> 01:07:02,280action. And we can we can thensay make decisions later on.111601:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,180Okay, well, maybe we want tosort things in a different way.111701:07:06,180 --> 01:07:09,090Or when we go to podcastdiscovery or search, we want to111801:07:09,090 --> 01:07:14,490give more weight to one or theother. Like, I just I see the111901:07:14,880 --> 01:07:19,590the existence of both of thosethings as fine. I think they I112001:07:19,590 --> 01:07:22,410think it's okay, it makes sense.I don't see it as a format war112101:07:22,410 --> 01:07:26,400at all. I don't know how youfeel. But that's the way it112201:07:26,850 --> 01:07:27,600seems to me. Yeah,112301:07:27,599 --> 01:07:31,139I don't either. I get I think itslots in very well with the it's112401:07:31,139 --> 01:07:33,929a choice. So if the if thepodcaster chooses to publish112501:07:33,929 --> 01:07:37,259those comments out if they wantto do it, there's a tag for it112601:07:37,259 --> 01:07:40,079right now. And then we justdefine that as a protocol that112701:07:40,440 --> 01:07:44,100right, but where we're wherewe're at right now, format wars,112801:07:44,100 --> 01:07:46,140or whatever it is. We'restagnant?112901:07:46,890 --> 01:07:50,580Well, I would say I would say inthat in that regard with here's113001:07:50,580 --> 01:07:53,340here's what would helpdistinguish a comment on113101:07:53,340 --> 01:07:58,620lightning from a booster gram.And that is, if somebody is113201:07:58,620 --> 01:08:02,040paying to comment on lightning,debt payments should go to the113301:08:02,040 --> 01:08:09,150app, not the podcaster boostergrams, good podcaster. Comments113401:08:09,150 --> 01:08:11,910good? Will the podcaster is notrunning the comment system.113501:08:11,910 --> 01:08:15,660They're not incurring any of thecost or head or overhead or pain113601:08:15,660 --> 01:08:17,640or anything of moderate? Justwant113701:08:17,639 --> 01:08:22,109comments? Yeah, I just wantcomments. I don't care. Just113801:08:22,109 --> 01:08:25,049give me a thick. I don't care,given the comments,113901:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,210nice problem to have sort ofcategories.114001:08:27,270 --> 01:08:32,010Everybody needs, like block onnews for the next week. And just114101:08:32,010 --> 01:08:36,480don't think about what everybodyyou know, whether it's pig tech114201:08:36,480 --> 01:08:38,640or not, we're all looking at thecompetition.114301:08:38,969 --> 01:08:42,689But what's needed, so is do weneed, I feel like, I feel like114401:08:42,689 --> 01:08:43,049we need114501:08:43,110 --> 01:08:46,410what we need is to focus and notbring in all these other114601:08:46,470 --> 01:08:49,980problems. I'm sorry. And that'sthe way that's the way that's114701:08:49,980 --> 01:08:52,380the way we've done it. So I'mokay with it. We bring in all114801:08:52,380 --> 01:08:54,750these problems and all thesethings, and we can't do this, we114901:08:54,750 --> 01:08:59,100need to integrate that. And thenno one knows what to do. So for115001:08:59,130 --> 01:09:03,660months now, I've been postingthe social links on all of my115101:09:03,660 --> 01:09:06,810podcast, there's millions ofpeople who listen to my115201:09:06,810 --> 01:09:12,000podcasts. If there was an appthat could do comments, I'd be115301:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,290talking about it and gettingpeople to use these apps. So but115401:09:16,290 --> 01:09:19,290there's not because we don'thave anyone that can do a login115501:09:19,290 --> 01:09:19,650yet.115601:09:20,130 --> 01:09:24,510Well thread. To me the solutionto that really is is in one115701:09:24,510 --> 01:09:27,180piece of code and that's whatyou wrote John, this Dan115801:09:27,210 --> 01:09:30,510and I have people because Iposted on no agenda social or115901:09:30,510 --> 01:09:35,910podcasts index dot social, it'spopulated. So if you open up the116001:09:35,940 --> 01:09:39,330the comments tab on any of mypodcasts, there's comments116101:09:39,330 --> 01:09:44,790there. So, you know, I'm doingI'm doing what's expected on my116201:09:44,790 --> 01:09:46,200end. It just seems116301:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,270like one of the things is Yeah,I think you're just you're116401:09:48,270 --> 01:09:51,150really early, right? I mean, thetag isn't even technically part116501:09:51,150 --> 01:09:53,490of the spec yet. Right. They'veso I think that's gonna go in116601:09:53,490 --> 01:09:54,030this next Do you116701:09:54,030 --> 01:09:56,430think that slows me down JohnSpurlock? No, you.116801:09:57,660 --> 01:10:00,300You're giving me test data thatI put you on my website. That116901:10:00,300 --> 01:10:02,970new hype website I put up therepodcast love117001:10:02,970 --> 01:10:06,900your hype website. It's snazzy,snazzy. Yeah, I117101:10:06,900 --> 01:10:10,170think I think it's just a slowsort of thing. I mean, we do, we117201:10:10,170 --> 01:10:12,660are waiting for apps tointegrate this. So what excited117301:10:12,660 --> 01:10:15,840me so much about it, I, I don'thave a dog in the activity pub117401:10:15,840 --> 01:10:20,520fight. But what excited me aboutit is that it exists that it117501:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,430basically is exactly what wewould design, if we were going117601:10:23,430 --> 01:10:26,880to design something like this,that was kind of a podcast wide,117701:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,750open Internet protocol basedsolution. So that exists, the117801:10:30,750 --> 01:10:34,200fediverse exists, like you said,you already have a bunch of117901:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,470people that are, are actuallyusing a system. So we're not118001:10:37,470 --> 01:10:41,160talking about the additionalcost of finding users to do118101:10:41,160 --> 01:10:44,460this. But I think we're justwaiting on apps to make this the118201:10:44,490 --> 01:10:47,070experience pretty seamless. Andto do that it's not as easy as118301:10:47,070 --> 01:10:50,310like a JSON file, right? You,you have to actually do some118401:10:50,310 --> 01:10:52,920work, you have to say, Oh, Ihave this logged in user on my118501:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,600side. Now I have to define aprofile for them. And so I think118601:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,060what's cool, and what I've beenkind of working on the last few118701:11:00,060 --> 01:11:02,790months is just creating somepieces that at least show the118801:11:02,790 --> 01:11:06,180way on how an app might do this.And then a couple of tools that118901:11:06,180 --> 01:11:09,510apps could use to read comments,and then to post comments back,119001:11:09,510 --> 01:11:12,990but it's again, it's very earlydays. So I wouldn't expect119101:11:12,990 --> 01:11:16,800anything right away. But I thinkagain, once you see apps, going119201:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,010back to competition, let's saypod friend integrates this, you119301:11:20,010 --> 01:11:22,290know, I think you're gonna seeapps kind of integrate this119401:11:22,290 --> 01:11:25,350right away. But the podcastsocial thing is more of another119501:11:25,350 --> 01:11:28,620problem. Because I mean, this,this feature is also limited by119601:11:28,620 --> 01:11:33,540the fact that no podcasts reallyare putting it in at the moment.119701:11:33,540 --> 01:11:33,900So119801:11:34,169 --> 01:11:37,169what do you what do you mean,that's, I have, I have four119901:11:37,169 --> 01:11:42,119podcasts. 1.4 million peoplelisten to one of those podcasts.120001:11:43,110 --> 01:11:46,830And about a half of all podcaststhat actually implemented that.120101:11:48,930 --> 01:11:53,010Okay, but but I can't but yousee, you know, who listens to my120201:11:53,010 --> 01:11:54,720show? podcasters.120301:11:55,140 --> 01:11:57,630But you know, what, and that's agood point. I mean, it's easy. I120401:11:57,630 --> 01:12:00,330think a lot of people think thatthe podcaster side of this is120501:12:00,330 --> 01:12:03,690difficult, and it's not it'slike a tag with a link to120601:12:03,690 --> 01:12:04,620notice. But120701:12:04,919 --> 01:12:09,359what what is what we have hereis a failure to communicate. Go120801:12:09,359 --> 01:12:13,559look at the engagement onpodcasting. 2.0 It's a lot of no120901:12:13,559 --> 01:12:18,299agenda, people who are balls tothe wall doing shows that listen121001:12:18,299 --> 01:12:23,339to Spencer, and and goingcompletely flying without a net.121101:12:24,059 --> 01:12:28,949And, yeah, it's really true.It's beautiful to watch. And,121201:12:29,699 --> 01:12:33,929and I it needs to be recognizedthat people are using it.121301:12:34,229 --> 01:12:38,669They're using it. Let's go,let's let's they're ready for it121401:12:38,669 --> 01:12:41,669anything you do anythingactually. So, but just again,121501:12:41,939 --> 01:12:45,599John again, um, I just got I'mso sick of the numbers. Hardly121601:12:45,599 --> 01:12:50,039anybody's using it. Okay,chicken egg. There. It's not121701:12:50,039 --> 01:12:54,029hardly anyone's using it. We puta tag in if one person uses121801:12:54,030 --> 01:13:00,540it. Well, yeah, but what I mean,like what, when you say just do121901:13:00,540 --> 01:13:05,280it? I mean, there's no. I mean,you got what do we do? Know122001:13:05,310 --> 01:13:08,460what, what a formalized attack?Yes, yes, no,122101:13:08,490 --> 01:13:12,360no. But what I'm saying what I'msaying is, we're getting off122201:13:12,360 --> 01:13:17,310track by we're being distractedby do we do we make it lightning122301:13:17,310 --> 01:13:21,120comments? I mean, it will notget done on the path we're on?122401:13:21,570 --> 01:13:23,400And that's because, I don'tknow, see, I122501:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,550mean, I'm formalizing the tag.Right. You know, I mean, we're,122601:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,610I'm putting it into Phase Fiveright now. I mean, it's, it's122701:13:29,610 --> 01:13:33,270getting done, it just has likepot friend, pot friend and curio122801:13:33,270 --> 01:13:37,770caster and, you know, pod verse,These are forward looking at me122901:13:37,770 --> 01:13:41,070of apps that are willing to doexperimental things. Most apps123001:13:41,070 --> 01:13:44,250are not like that understood andunderstood, they're not, they're123101:13:44,250 --> 01:13:48,930not going to do that. It has tobe a formal spec before, before123201:13:48,930 --> 01:13:54,660it can be before it can be done.I mean, there. I'm not. I'm not123301:13:54,660 --> 01:13:58,230bothered by the slow by the slowroll of this, it, it doesn't123401:13:58,230 --> 01:14:01,890bother me because I becauseevery time we come up with some123501:14:02,310 --> 01:14:05,730new edge case that has to behandled, we're thankful that we123601:14:05,730 --> 01:14:06,960didn't go too fast on it.123701:14:07,110 --> 01:14:10,860Dave, I'm, I'm completely inagreement. What I'm saying is,123801:14:10,920 --> 01:14:16,170I'm disappointed that thecreators are, are being left out123901:14:16,170 --> 01:14:17,910of the conversation and ignored.124001:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,860Well, there's just disagreement,there's nothing What do you mean124101:14:22,860 --> 01:14:24,840by that? Yeah, I don't I don'tunderstand what you mean by124201:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,480that. They're not being ignored.Because there's nothing to124301:14:27,510 --> 01:14:30,540there's nothing, it doesn'texist yet to give to them. But124401:14:30,540 --> 01:14:30,840when124501:14:30,870 --> 01:14:31,740when it comes.124601:14:33,900 --> 01:14:36,960Like because there's no formalspecification to give when124701:14:37,260 --> 01:14:42,030I look at what people arearguing about, or discussing,124801:14:42,690 --> 01:14:46,890and once once the lightningcomments came back, that's when124901:14:46,890 --> 01:14:50,430I went, Okay, well, it'll beforever because that's going to125001:14:50,430 --> 01:14:52,440go on for a long time. And I'mjust saying,125101:14:52,980 --> 01:14:57,240no, no, no, no, I don't thinkit's gonna slow anything down at125201:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,600all. No, because in that that'sthe point of was trying to make125301:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,540and I did it ever clearly I dida terrible job was that? I don't125401:15:03,540 --> 01:15:07,980think that though I don't thinkit's a format war, if it was an125501:15:07,980 --> 01:15:11,160actual format war, if this wasRSS versus Adam, it would be a125601:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,130problem. But I don't thinkthere's a format war at all. But125701:15:14,130 --> 01:15:18,330isn't isn't activity pub versusTwitter by definition of format125801:15:18,330 --> 01:15:18,690war?125901:15:19,950 --> 01:15:22,350Well, I don't I don't thinkanybody cares about Twitter at126001:15:22,350 --> 01:15:22,740this point.126101:15:22,740 --> 01:15:25,650Okay, then why why do we evenmake it possible to incorporate126201:15:25,650 --> 01:15:25,830it?126301:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,120I think I think you put it inthere as possible, just to make126401:15:30,120 --> 01:15:35,370sure it will the same way thatwe put in the option for there126501:15:35,370 --> 01:15:39,420to be an ether coin in the valuevalue block. Good point. Nobody126601:15:39,420 --> 01:15:39,840cares.126701:15:39,870 --> 01:15:45,150Good point. Yeah, the altarenclosure is an approved and126801:15:45,150 --> 01:15:49,230implemented tag, correct. Guesshow many apps supported?126901:15:50,730 --> 01:15:57,450Want to think to a may beleaving one out now.127001:15:57,480 --> 01:16:02,430So I so I have a I have torrentRSS feeds of all my shows in127101:16:02,430 --> 01:16:08,850torrent? I have. I'd love to dosome IPFS. I don't have the I127201:16:08,850 --> 01:16:12,180don't have the tools. I don'thave the tools to make it. And I127301:16:12,180 --> 01:16:15,420don't have anyone to receive it.And that's that's a tag that is127401:16:15,660 --> 01:16:16,500good to go.127501:16:17,280 --> 01:16:21,180Nobody wants it though. I wantto hear that. But you're not.127601:16:21,210 --> 01:16:22,770You're not exactly.127701:16:22,770 --> 01:16:25,170And there we are. Thank you.Yeah, point made.127801:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,500You're not You're not alistener. And so keep pushing.127901:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,740I'm not I'm not, I'm not alistener. I'm not a listener, I128001:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,200can't talk to my listeners. Ican't convince them to do128101:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,020anything. And they never askedme for anything. That's that.128201:16:37,050 --> 01:16:38,250That's the disconnect,128301:16:38,459 --> 01:16:41,459that the problem with somethinglike that that you're describing128401:16:41,459 --> 01:16:47,129is that the listener can tell nodifference between a podcast128501:16:47,129 --> 01:16:51,599delivered through IPFS. Andthrough HTTP download. There's128601:16:51,629 --> 01:16:57,359absolutely zero benefit,perceived perceived benefit to128701:16:57,359 --> 01:17:01,469the listener. And for featureslike that. apps do not care.128801:17:01,709 --> 01:17:05,069Now, they won the first app toimplement alternate enclosure128901:17:05,099 --> 01:17:08,729was pod LP. They had an actualreason for129001:17:08,760 --> 01:17:16,170specific reason for you. But Butif I wanted to do video I'd want129101:17:16,170 --> 01:17:19,770to have the alternative tagalternative enclosure tag, I129201:17:19,770 --> 01:17:24,060want to have the media tagimplemented, you know, so So now129301:17:24,060 --> 01:17:26,820we're at a different chicken andegg. When can I start creating129401:17:26,820 --> 01:17:31,740stuff using features? If they'renot implemented? Do I just go to129501:17:31,830 --> 01:17:34,800podcast index dot social andsay, Hey, what are we going to?129601:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,710Do? You understand? Do youunderstand? I'm just saying129701:17:37,710 --> 01:17:41,100there's, there's technologydilemmas. And then there's a129801:17:41,100 --> 01:17:46,680dynamic between the developersand the creators. It's not all129901:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,770just about the listeners, theCreators talk to the listeners130001:17:49,770 --> 01:17:52,440tell them what to do theyexplain it to them, they help130101:17:52,440 --> 01:17:57,450them get on board. That's that'sthe missing piece here is we're130201:17:57,450 --> 01:18:01,590always like, Oh, well, everyone,people don't. I think people go130301:18:01,590 --> 01:18:04,620to YouTube, not because it'sYouTube, because oh, that's130401:18:04,620 --> 01:18:07,080where they found it. Or that'swhere it's easy to listen to.130501:18:07,650 --> 01:18:10,530They'll go anywhere to find itas long as it fits within their130601:18:10,530 --> 01:18:13,560realm. And we're not reallydriving any of that.130701:18:14,670 --> 01:18:17,580That's it, we'll look at YouTubeas an example of something like130801:18:17,580 --> 01:18:20,610the alternate enclosure.Alternate enclosure is a direct130901:18:20,610 --> 01:18:26,160replacement, a decentralizedreplacement for YouTube's131001:18:26,220 --> 01:18:31,560automatic quality scaling. It'sone of the it's one of the131101:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,960aspects of alternate enclosure.The The reason YouTube had to131201:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,890have that was because it was itwithout it was a bad experience.131301:18:41,970 --> 01:18:47,100The issue with with podcasts isyou give the same thing. But131401:18:47,100 --> 01:18:51,840there are so few video podcasts.And most podcasts quality is131501:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,710decent, because the bit ratesare small. That the the need for131601:18:55,710 --> 01:18:58,770the alternate enclosureperceived a need for it is tiny,131701:18:58,800 --> 01:18:59,190but let131801:18:59,190 --> 01:19:02,220me approach it from a different.Let's stick with YouTube. And131901:19:02,220 --> 01:19:07,650then I'll shut up the maindifference between a podcast and132001:19:07,650 --> 01:19:11,910an app and podcast and YouTube,can you tell me there's one132101:19:12,180 --> 01:19:14,880difference? And I don't care ifit's audio or video, lots of132201:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,360people listen to audio podcastson YouTube with just the album132301:19:18,360 --> 01:19:22,710art image. What is the maindifference? In that experience132401:19:22,980 --> 01:19:25,590between between listening to apodcast on YouTube and listening132501:19:25,590 --> 01:19:33,720to one in a podcast app? The themain difference would be well, I132601:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,710can think of a few. But I mean,the one that jumps to mind is132701:19:37,710 --> 01:19:38,280it's easy.132801:19:38,490 --> 01:19:40,200Okay, John, any thoughts?132901:19:40,230 --> 01:19:42,840You can use your app any appright? You can use the app133001:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,810you're already familiar with.Whereas if you133101:19:46,140 --> 01:19:48,720know what's different, what'sthe what's the difference133201:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,470between listening to a podcaston YouTube or the YouTube app? I133301:19:52,470 --> 01:19:55,470don't care for a podcast app.What's the difference?133401:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,200Well, you need to be premiumfirst of all or else it's gonna133501:19:58,200 --> 01:19:59,250be a horrible experience.133601:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,950What is difference? Betweenpremium? What's the difference?133701:20:05,370 --> 01:20:08,130Yeah, I'm looking, I'm lookingat the chat room, they're not133801:20:08,130 --> 01:20:09,000getting it either.133901:20:09,990 --> 01:20:10,920There's not a difference.134001:20:10,980 --> 01:20:13,950Well, honestly, what I would sayis that there is really not much134101:20:13,950 --> 01:20:14,400of a difference.134201:20:14,430 --> 01:20:22,140Okay? Are you ready for it?Comments? Calm comments. That's,134301:20:22,380 --> 01:20:27,810that's the difference. I've beenon big podcasts. And the134401:20:27,810 --> 01:20:34,140community is in the comments1000s And 1000s of them comments134501:20:36,600 --> 01:20:41,280on my language, see, that's whyI was I was sold in December,134601:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,850whatever, when I startedworking. So I think that that is134701:20:44,850 --> 01:20:48,210actually a, I would like to see,I'm basically doing whatever I134801:20:48,210 --> 01:20:51,060can to make it as easy for appsto implement this because I134901:20:51,060 --> 01:20:55,110think it benefits every app todo this. Because the more we135001:20:55,110 --> 01:20:58,740kind of pool our user base,right, the more we're not doing135101:20:58,770 --> 01:21:01,740our own separate comments. I'mwriting an app now, right? I'm135201:21:01,740 --> 01:21:04,980creating comments. If commentsdon't exist, I'm still gonna do135301:21:04,980 --> 01:21:08,220comments, they will just belocked in my app. And so we135401:21:08,220 --> 01:21:11,130haven't really gone anywhere. Ithink the beauty of this is that135501:21:11,130 --> 01:21:14,970we've actually defined a waythat works to do it across apps.135601:21:15,060 --> 01:21:18,900And so I'm personally going todo whatever I can to keep making135701:21:18,900 --> 01:21:21,030that happen. Because I thinkit's actually a cool fall off.135801:21:21,030 --> 01:21:21,780Not that hard. I'm135901:21:21,780 --> 01:21:27,660saying is there's no difference.No other difference. That's,136001:21:27,660 --> 01:21:31,110that's the main difference.Yeah, I mean, when and now what136101:21:31,110 --> 01:21:34,710they do have, and this is an ifyou just want just look at a136201:21:34,710 --> 01:21:38,910successful model. They have theSuper Chat. Now that is how you136301:21:38,910 --> 01:21:42,240can incorporate boost into thecomments. They by the way, they136401:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,310don't show up in the commentsbelow, they show up in a136501:21:44,310 --> 01:21:48,900separate area on YouTube. So ifwe're truly worried about136601:21:48,900 --> 01:21:52,530YouTube coming in and stompingall over podcasting, well, let's136701:21:52,530 --> 01:21:56,250at least do what they do equallyor better. And I think we can.136801:21:57,450 --> 01:21:58,080No, I think we136901:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,480can do Yeah, absolute goodnesssaid it better myself. That's137001:22:00,510 --> 01:22:05,730that's actually but the livechat issue and the booster grams137101:22:05,730 --> 01:22:07,650there. I think that's where itreally comes into play. They137201:22:07,650 --> 01:22:10,380have the notion of, but actuallydon't have the notion of a live137301:22:10,380 --> 01:22:12,780replay like Twitch, where theyshow that but137401:22:12,780 --> 01:22:16,380if we if we just did a UX copy,we just did a UX comparison side137501:22:16,380 --> 01:22:19,890by side. Yeah. Any any studythat just said, what are the137601:22:19,890 --> 01:22:22,950main features would say, Well,look, look what's going on here.137701:22:23,130 --> 01:22:26,550People seem to come back here toread, if there's replies to137801:22:26,550 --> 01:22:28,860their comments. I mean,137901:22:29,850 --> 01:22:32,400testers can go there. Andinstead of going to five138001:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,250different apps, they can go toone place to see all the138101:22:35,250 --> 01:22:37,710feedback on you know, the entirecommunity feedback for a given138201:22:37,710 --> 01:22:40,890episode, I think podcasters, youknow, going back to the Creator138301:22:40,890 --> 01:22:44,490side of this, they have numberone, they have control over what138401:22:44,490 --> 01:22:46,710happens at that endpoint wherethey don't have control over138501:22:46,710 --> 01:22:49,920that in Twitter or YouTube.Correct. But number two, they138601:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,350have one place to go. So theykind of have their own, they can138701:22:52,350 --> 01:22:56,190use that channel. That's theideal their own community. So I138801:22:56,190 --> 01:22:58,470think it's like and then andthen this thing community138901:22:58,470 --> 01:22:58,920system,139001:22:58,950 --> 01:23:03,450and it be a community. Now, Iunderstand all the apprehension139101:23:03,450 --> 01:23:07,140and and having apps or havingcomments in someone's app may139201:23:07,140 --> 01:23:10,860not and may not be foreverybody. But that's literally139301:23:10,860 --> 01:23:17,670what people want. And end to endto have a an I think you're the139401:23:17,670 --> 01:23:21,420cast pod would agreed to ownthat, quote, unquote, to have139501:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,060that within in your control,certainly not to have someone139601:23:24,060 --> 01:23:27,810else determine what can or can'twhat comment can or cannot be139701:23:27,870 --> 01:23:32,880visible. That's what we're doinghere. That's the whole point.139801:23:33,930 --> 01:23:43,530So, yeah, let's do it. Where arewe done yet? Well, i i It's kind139901:23:43,530 --> 01:23:46,380of nice. It folds togetherbecause this this, you know,140001:23:46,380 --> 01:23:50,250it's apples to oranges to adegree YouTube to podcasting.140101:23:50,250 --> 01:23:53,970And I'm also just, I'm so sickof hearing about it, like do a140201:23:53,970 --> 01:23:57,480show me something already, orYouTube's eating our lunch or140301:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,920the independent apps are dying?Well, no, I just I just140401:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,550disagree. This is just a metric.But it's not the metric.140501:24:06,750 --> 01:24:09,030And it's what you said aboutincentives is really important.140601:24:09,030 --> 01:24:12,420I think there's a limited amountof push you guys can do and all140701:24:12,420 --> 01:24:15,060of us can do. I think some ofits going to have to be pulled140801:24:15,060 --> 01:24:18,450like people are going to have tobe excited. But an app developer140901:24:18,450 --> 01:24:21,600is going to have to be excitedabout adding this before any of141001:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,990this stuff takes off. So maybesome of the apprehension is that141101:24:24,990 --> 01:24:27,270people just aren't that excitedapp developers aren't that141201:24:27,270 --> 01:24:28,530excited adding this feature.141301:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,800Okay, just let's not all get ourpanties in a bunch when YouTube141401:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,980has people going over there forcertain things we don't have.141501:24:35,160 --> 01:24:39,060But I don't Well, I think it's alittle more complicated than141601:24:39,060 --> 01:24:43,260that. Because Youtube, the theSuper Chat. The Choose Super141701:24:43,260 --> 01:24:46,110Chat experience on YouTubereally only exists on the141801:24:46,110 --> 01:24:52,110desktop. The mobile, the mobileside of that is a mess. The it's141901:24:52,110 --> 01:24:55,620only a good experience inYouTube when you're watching it142001:24:55,620 --> 01:25:00,930at a out on the web. And I thinkthat's pretty Probably an142101:25:00,930 --> 01:25:04,800instinctive thing that peopleunderstand. And that's probably142201:25:04,800 --> 01:25:10,950why pod friend and pod verse andyou know, impossibly curio142301:25:10,950 --> 01:25:13,860caster are the ones to implementit first. Because when you have142401:25:13,890 --> 01:25:19,500you have, you know, screen realestate to to really enjoy the142501:25:19,500 --> 01:25:24,180experience of having a chat anda video in one screen. Now I'm142601:25:24,180 --> 01:25:26,130not saying it's impossible withmobile,142701:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,310but no, but I'm totally I'mtotally in agreement. I think142801:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,460that's why I've I've always beena fan of web apps in general for142901:25:32,460 --> 01:25:33,450this very reason.143001:25:33,930 --> 01:25:39,570But see that in and that's whythat's, that's why probably the143101:25:39,570 --> 01:25:43,770adoption within the podcast appecosystem is going to be slower143201:25:43,770 --> 01:25:49,590for comments than it will be onon the website, or maybe even on143301:25:49,590 --> 01:25:54,000YouTube proper is becauseYouTube, for all I mean, for all143401:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,090it's, for all its growth onmobile and everything. Well, you143501:25:57,090 --> 01:26:00,600know, YouTube really is stillthe best experience on the web.143601:26:00,630 --> 01:26:03,510And so and that's nottraditionally been the case for143701:26:03,510 --> 01:26:07,380podcasts. So there has to belike that's, that's where it143801:26:07,380 --> 01:26:11,100this is exciting, though,because that's where web, good143901:26:11,130 --> 01:26:14,310web apps like pod verse andCourier caster and pod friend144001:26:14,670 --> 01:26:18,960can really shine and take backsome market share from the144101:26:18,960 --> 01:26:20,310mobile aspect of things.144201:26:20,370 --> 01:26:25,440It's such a such a small stepfrom a woman wanting to listen144301:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,460to a podcast to click on a linkland on a web page versus144401:26:29,490 --> 01:26:33,810landing on a progressive webpage. It's the smallest step144501:26:33,810 --> 01:26:39,780known to mankind. It's the samething. So I need to do better.144601:26:39,810 --> 01:26:43,800And I need to be, you know what,here's some low hanging fruit144701:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,710that I want to talk about. Itfolds into this. I was looking144801:26:46,710 --> 01:26:50,370for a web page for Korean thekeeper podcast, because it's the144901:26:50,370 --> 01:26:53,520typical freedom controller page.You know, I love my freedom145001:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,590controller. My wife's like, youknow, she's in marketing145101:26:58,590 --> 01:27:01,200communications like, God is thispiece of shit?145201:27:01,260 --> 01:27:02,670Oh, throw and Shay.145301:27:02,700 --> 01:27:08,670Yeah. Well, I took the I tookthe brunt of it, Dave. And so we145401:27:08,670 --> 01:27:11,520talked about on the grenade.Yeah. So we talked about on the145501:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,970show. And of course, as italways happens, so much it was145601:27:14,970 --> 01:27:17,100actually Dave Jackson says,Well, you know what, why don't145701:27:17,100 --> 01:27:20,850you take a look at pod page,like, oh, pod page and pod page.145801:27:20,850 --> 01:27:23,700You know, you just I did it. Iclaimed my145901:27:23,700 --> 01:27:27,360feed. And, and it was easy,because your emails are out146001:27:27,360 --> 01:27:27,810there. That's146101:27:27,810 --> 01:27:32,190right. And I read a couple moreoffers at the same time. And I146201:27:32,190 --> 01:27:37,080liked it. And so you know, andjust by reading the feed, and146301:27:37,080 --> 01:27:38,700you have a couple Yup, weactually have a lot of146401:27:38,700 --> 01:27:42,210configuration options, and boom,it pops up. And I'm like, wow,146501:27:42,210 --> 01:27:45,780that's a really decent website.That really looks pretty good.146601:27:45,810 --> 01:27:48,270Except and you can map yourdomain name to it and146701:27:48,270 --> 01:27:53,310everything. Except, yeah, gee, Imean, there's zero podcasting146801:27:53,310 --> 01:27:59,6402.0 features in it. No chapters,no transcripts, any of that. And146901:27:59,670 --> 01:28:03,180just to add insult to injuryright below the you know, the147001:28:03,180 --> 01:28:07,140each individual episode, it hasa, an Apple icon and a Spotify147101:28:07,140 --> 01:28:14,610icon. So here's an opportunity.Because right now, I hear a lot147201:28:14,610 --> 01:28:19,530of talk about the podcasterspage, you know, and of course,147301:28:19,530 --> 01:28:23,730we all in the hosting companiesall do a yeoman's job of giving147401:28:23,730 --> 01:28:27,450people free pages. But justthink about this opportunity147501:28:27,450 --> 01:28:30,480that's just sitting out there. Imean, I'll use it. I'll use it147601:28:30,480 --> 01:28:33,990for all my shows, look at all ofmy podcast, except for no agenda147701:28:33,990 --> 01:28:37,980show which. But the show notespages are just freedom147801:28:37,980 --> 01:28:39,900controller renderings ofoutlines.147901:28:41,580 --> 01:28:45,240Yeah, I mean, given James wasinterested over at pod news. And148001:28:45,270 --> 01:28:48,660I mean, the more structured datayou have on an episode, you148101:28:48,660 --> 01:28:52,380could share those on the on thepod, the pod news generated page148201:28:52,380 --> 01:28:53,310as well. But I148301:28:53,310 --> 01:28:55,530just want to send a whole bunchof women to something they're148401:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,680comfortable with. And they don'tseem to want an app, they listen148501:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,400to some of my shows on a on aweb page. Why not have it be a148601:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,850fantastic experience. And I havea lot more real estate to148701:29:05,850 --> 01:29:08,940explain how to how to fill up awallet.148801:29:09,480 --> 01:29:15,510Pro tip. You can include customCSS on the controller page and148901:29:15,510 --> 01:29:16,770change the entire way it looks.149001:29:16,920 --> 01:29:21,150Yeah, this CSS is kind of whereit breaks down for me.149101:29:22,830 --> 01:29:25,650Yeah, this is your wish to dothat. Back in the day. I149201:29:25,650 --> 01:29:28,650remember you had a competitionon ninja. Oh, no agenda one time149301:29:28,650 --> 01:29:32,160of like, hey, I want everybodyto submit custom CSS for the149401:29:32,460 --> 01:29:37,260O shaped pages, but also alsothe change words. That is149501:29:37,260 --> 01:29:37,800referred to149601:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,890the Chrome extension. Yeah,Chrome extensions.149701:29:41,340 --> 01:29:44,130You can do crazy stuff with CSSnowadays. I'm sure you could.149801:29:44,160 --> 01:29:47,160Yeah, you can replace content.You can. Yeah,149901:29:47,250 --> 01:29:52,380I'm just a podcast. I can I can.I can look at I can look at my150001:29:52,380 --> 01:29:55,650feed and kind of figure outwhat's going on. That's the150101:29:55,650 --> 01:29:56,130level.150201:29:57,180 --> 01:30:00,960That pot page 2.0 ideas really,really Good because that is a150301:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,330way it's like a very lowfriction way. It's not a whole150401:30:03,330 --> 01:30:06,750app that you have to install.Boom, here's an episode. And150501:30:06,750 --> 01:30:09,390it's lit up by all these newtags.150601:30:09,570 --> 01:30:15,150I mean, I'll be honest with you,I, I use breeze frequently. But150701:30:15,150 --> 01:30:19,950that's, I would say, for somereason, I can always count on150801:30:19,950 --> 01:30:24,690breeze to refresh the feed. Andthere I do have problems with my150901:30:24,690 --> 01:30:27,930browsers with caching and shit.Sometimes things, you know,151001:30:27,930 --> 01:30:31,710haven't updated when they shouldhave so often, yeah, I'll use151101:30:31,710 --> 01:30:34,920breeze just to make sure I havethe most recent version, then I151201:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,340have to quit out of breezebecause it gets my battery gets151301:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,880to hold the whole phone andstarts to heat up after after a151401:30:41,880 --> 01:30:42,390while151501:30:42,420 --> 01:30:45,960from the Chrome has always beensuch a pain when it comes to151601:30:45,960 --> 01:30:50,190caching like it. It is just whenit comes to it's nasty.151701:30:50,400 --> 01:30:54,240But then I have now I use podfriend because it has a151801:30:54,240 --> 01:30:59,910beautiful. Yeah, it has a littlelist there of the episodes that151901:30:59,910 --> 01:31:03,540I have feeds that I subscribe toin chronological order. So I go152001:31:03,540 --> 01:31:05,940oh, there's that one. There'sthat one. So I know what's152101:31:05,970 --> 01:31:09,840updated. I list of littlebullets and new that's horrible152201:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,640to me. I like I'm a river ofnews guy, if anything. But then152301:31:14,640 --> 01:31:19,260curio caster just has all thefeatures I want. And when I go152401:31:19,260 --> 01:31:22,650to my desktop, fire it up. It'sthere. My subscriptions, you152501:31:22,650 --> 01:31:26,310know, I can use it on anycomputer. I want. Mobile or big152601:31:26,310 --> 01:31:30,750screen. I have to say I find myeven Twitter, I use the web app.152701:31:30,750 --> 01:31:35,010I don't use apps anymore. Oh,and I'm not just because I'm152801:31:35,010 --> 01:31:40,080Boomer adjacent. Douchebag inthe cotton gin. You're ahead of152901:31:40,080 --> 01:31:43,380the game. Yeah. Cotton Gin inthe chat rooms going through a153001:31:43,380 --> 01:31:44,700bunch of boomers in here.153101:31:45,540 --> 01:31:50,100Well, I mean, did you use muttas your email client? Mean?153201:31:50,790 --> 01:31:54,210There's some truth. But okay, sowhat's happening right this153301:31:54,210 --> 01:31:56,940moment, and I think it's good tostep back and get perspective153401:31:56,940 --> 01:31:59,700here. What's happening right atthis moment is that a lot of153501:31:59,700 --> 01:32:04,980people are listening to the showon curio caster. Mm hmm. And the153601:32:04,980 --> 01:32:09,150chat should be showing up alsoincluded us. So yes, this, this153701:32:09,150 --> 01:32:14,100is super chat happening at themoment. And also from the153801:32:14,100 --> 01:32:18,510perspective of Steven B. Ifpeople are boosting through Kira153901:32:18,510 --> 01:32:21,240Castro while they're listeningright now, he's getting a154001:32:21,240 --> 01:32:25,500percentage of those of thosestats. That's your incentive to154101:32:25,500 --> 01:32:28,050do the adoption for a lot ofthese things. If you're on the154201:32:28,050 --> 01:32:30,990web platform. Now get reallygood stuff.154301:32:31,049 --> 01:32:35,099Unfortunately, with today's liveexperiment, it seems like the ln154401:32:35,099 --> 01:32:38,339pay node could not handlewhatever was going on, or I'm,154501:32:38,519 --> 01:32:42,119I'm just not receiving paymentsfor some reason. But we did get154601:32:42,809 --> 01:32:49,709the 10,034 from Darren and hecame in with a second 133 33,333154701:32:49,709 --> 01:32:52,889He says he still had some SATsleftover from random thoughts,154801:32:52,979 --> 01:32:57,899unrelenting, and planet rage.And this is our vague he says,154901:32:58,289 --> 01:32:58,619Did you155001:32:58,620 --> 01:33:03,300get my test boost earlier? Nope.It's it it went through now.155101:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,130Then. videos from CAST Matic itmay155201:33:05,130 --> 01:33:07,830be the exorbitant fees I havesaid on the nodes.155301:33:09,720 --> 01:33:13,620Spencer, it's like do it likeYeah, I told you so.155401:33:14,520 --> 01:33:18,750Well, they shouldn't fail. Yeah,true. I got. I have lots of155501:33:18,750 --> 01:33:20,070routes. It shouldn't fail.155601:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,350But I got confetti on my side.Someone's going through.155701:33:22,710 --> 01:33:23,280Okay.155801:33:24,450 --> 01:33:28,590I don't know. I don't know. Butoh, I know what Yeah. And it was155901:33:28,590 --> 01:33:29,400Brahmanism. Also,156001:33:29,400 --> 01:33:35,010my home IP also wound up on thespam house list or whatever. I156101:33:35,010 --> 01:33:39,150don't know how that happened.Oh, crap. This. All of a sudden,156201:33:39,150 --> 01:33:41,010I couldn't get to my my mailserver.156301:33:41,550 --> 01:33:44,340I've got new internet. I'm onone gig right now, baby.156401:33:44,820 --> 01:33:49,590I can tell you sounds so muchbetter way to live. Yes. sounds156501:33:49,590 --> 01:33:50,580so much better.156601:33:50,820 --> 01:33:51,990Hey, do we want to thank people?156701:33:52,230 --> 01:33:55,620Yeah, yeah. Wow, an hour and ahalf. This has been this has156801:33:55,620 --> 01:33:59,160been a very intense boardmeeting. Gentlemen, I enjoyed156901:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,940this trip. Hold on a second. Letme just knock off the official157001:34:02,940 --> 01:34:06,810part. Let's, let's thank somepeople who supported the not157101:34:06,810 --> 01:34:09,990just the podcast, but thatthere's my dog, but the project.157201:34:10,560 --> 01:34:15,180So when you support us, you'resupporting the work. Certainly157301:34:15,180 --> 01:34:17,550the work Dave's doing you aresupporting, although not Dave157401:34:17,550 --> 01:34:21,540not getting any money. But we'regetting SATs one way or the157501:34:21,540 --> 01:34:25,410other. But you're really helpingthe machinery run and and giving157601:34:25,410 --> 01:34:30,870us a bit of runway to continueto grow as we expect to and you157701:34:30,870 --> 01:34:34,140can do that. Well, obviously,anyone who's contributing their157801:34:34,140 --> 01:34:37,950time or talent is helping rightoff the bat. And that's how157901:34:37,950 --> 01:34:41,340value for value should work.Having the treasure angle is158001:34:41,340 --> 01:34:44,970very helpful to keep it running.And we'd like booster grams we'd158101:34:44,970 --> 01:34:48,240like Satoshis because we justpoured those.158201:34:49,320 --> 01:34:51,270Yes, numbers go up.158301:34:52,770 --> 01:34:53,520Not today.158401:34:54,660 --> 01:34:59,400So do you have a node? John,that we can get a split of this158501:34:59,400 --> 01:34:59,880episode?158601:35:01,050 --> 01:35:04,560Oh, yeah, I have one of thosecute Bitcoin machines. I had to158701:35:04,560 --> 01:35:08,520bug the guy incessantly in orderfor him to ship it.158801:35:09,030 --> 01:35:12,360Oh, okay, I did work. Well, youcan get payments and stuff. I158901:35:12,360 --> 01:35:12,570think159001:35:12,570 --> 01:35:16,710so. Yeah, I have a mini pubproject. I have a value block in159101:35:16,710 --> 01:35:19,680there. I don't if you want to.I'll send you a block that you159201:35:19,680 --> 01:35:21,600could use though for this one.Yep. Okay, cool.159301:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,720Send it to me so I can put itright in the feed before we159401:35:24,720 --> 01:35:25,260publish159501:35:26,010 --> 01:35:32,760a scene. So right off the bat.RSS calm and you want to guess159601:35:33,540 --> 01:35:34,740RSS calm?159701:35:35,130 --> 01:35:35,970Yeah, though.159801:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,880They're they're big supporters.Do I need to have my hand on the159901:35:38,880 --> 01:35:39,300button?160001:35:39,780 --> 01:35:42,390Oh, you better you better behovering. Okay. I'm hovering160101:35:43,050 --> 01:35:45,690$1,000 Whoa.160201:35:45,720 --> 01:35:46,860Holy crap.160301:35:47,940 --> 01:35:51,750Shot Carla 20 blades on I amPaula.160401:35:52,140 --> 01:35:55,440That's what I'm talking about.Saying the Dave Sorry. No160501:35:55,440 --> 01:35:56,580sad puppies today.160601:35:56,610 --> 01:35:58,560No good work. No160701:35:58,560 --> 01:36:04,380Go podcasting. 2.0 that is,160801:36:04,710 --> 01:36:11,310I got to let one out. It wasn'treally a boost, but it just160901:36:11,310 --> 01:36:12,120makes me feel good.161001:36:13,980 --> 01:36:17,400Alberto, just really appreciateit. They've been helping us161101:36:17,430 --> 01:36:22,380since early early days. Yeah.And always very responsive in161201:36:22,620 --> 01:36:24,300the master Dante. They'll jumpin there when?161301:36:24,510 --> 01:36:27,120And Dan was an implementingnamespace.161401:36:27,900 --> 01:36:35,070Yeah, straight up. Yep. Thankyou guys. We got $100 from Les.161501:36:35,340 --> 01:36:39,900Les Barnes. Li he no note. Well,thank you. Thank you for that.161601:36:40,320 --> 01:36:49,110You. See $7.77 from Charlessale. No note. Thank you, Joe.161701:36:49,980 --> 01:36:53,280That's our that's our PayPals weget some boosts we get.161801:36:53,730 --> 01:36:57,060So literally, literally to papertowels. Yeah, we have161901:36:57,060 --> 01:37:00,540transition. we've transitionedinto the lower valued Satoshi162001:37:00,540 --> 01:37:01,080world.162101:37:01,980 --> 01:37:05,850Yeah, it's like, it's like twoor three paper towels and 40 You162201:37:05,850 --> 01:37:12,690know, booster grams. Let's seeanonymous, through breeze. 7777162301:37:12,690 --> 01:37:14,640SATs says heavenly boost.162401:37:14,879 --> 01:37:19,559Ooh, where's my heavenly? Do wehave a heavenly boost?162501:37:19,680 --> 01:37:25,920I don't know the heavenly boost.Let's see. Chad Farah says 3333162601:37:25,950 --> 01:37:28,590through Fountaine. He says withall that grunting from Dave I162701:37:28,590 --> 01:37:33,330thought I was listening to Adamand John no agenda. A lot last162801:37:33,330 --> 01:37:33,540week?162901:37:33,840 --> 01:37:41,760I don't know. I guess I didn'tnotice it darling. See, probably163001:37:41,760 --> 01:37:42,570aggravating you.163101:37:43,680 --> 01:37:49,530Well, this must be Chad Pharaohsays another 3333 And he says I163201:37:49,530 --> 01:37:52,020don't like it when mommy anddaddy fight. Maybe we're163301:37:52,020 --> 01:37:53,700fighting at the time. We never163401:37:53,700 --> 01:37:57,450fighting. This is how to fightwhat you know what it is, is163501:37:57,450 --> 01:38:00,840people aren't used to honesty tohearing people have an honest163601:38:00,840 --> 01:38:03,750conversation because everythingis so fake in the mainstream and163701:38:03,750 --> 01:38:05,040on a lot of podcasts163801:38:05,640 --> 01:38:10,200with if if Chad doesn't like,intense discussion, he probably163901:38:10,260 --> 01:38:13,770bailed out like 30 minutes ago.This has been this has been the164001:38:13,770 --> 01:38:17,640intense board meeting. Castpeatland. 3300 SATs through164101:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,140fountain at CES thanks for theshow.164201:38:19,530 --> 01:38:22,020Thank you. Yeah, boost.164301:38:23,250 --> 01:38:26,880Marry Oscar marry one on onesets really like this idea of164401:38:26,910 --> 01:38:31,110dated news based episodes,especially if tied into chapters164501:38:31,110 --> 01:38:33,420so that apps can mark whichchapters have been played and164601:38:33,420 --> 01:38:35,730listeners can just carry on fromwhere they were. Yeah, that164701:38:35,730 --> 01:38:43,200was for spooler. Yeah. You know,I heard the bogs on pod land. I164801:38:43,200 --> 01:38:45,960heard that part. And he wassaying, Yeah, we're really late.164901:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,360And he was just talking aboutpod ping. Like, it was a whole165001:38:48,360 --> 01:38:48,810thing.165101:38:49,440 --> 01:38:50,730Yeah, yeah, it is.165201:38:50,760 --> 01:38:55,260It is a thing. But yeah, but youneed to recognize that no one's165301:38:55,260 --> 01:38:58,740jumping up. And you know, and,and Cridland, just say no,165401:38:58,740 --> 01:39:01,050you're going to support this.This is a you know, and165501:39:01,080 --> 01:39:05,070podcasting via the namespace.It's now part of the discussion.165601:39:05,730 --> 01:39:09,540Yeah, it's it's like it's like,cemented it's in there. I mean,165701:39:09,540 --> 01:39:12,090we're not going anywhere. We'reonly going one way.165801:39:12,570 --> 01:39:14,790What do you call that? Like ait's not a house word. What165901:39:14,820 --> 01:39:17,370household name is like ahousehold word now within the166001:39:17,370 --> 01:39:19,470podcast industry? Yeah. Like166101:39:19,500 --> 01:39:22,770whatever that is. Whatever thepod is YouTube part of the166201:39:22,800 --> 01:39:26,310Google part of the podcastindustry. No.166301:39:27,540 --> 01:39:32,640Never. Patrick Erlich Elric.Patrick Ulrich said through166401:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,330fountain he said 500 SATs and hesaid El Salvador for all166501:39:38,070 --> 01:39:39,480ready to move.166601:39:39,930 --> 01:39:45,780Did you see that city in Italy?That's now big is no166701:39:45,780 --> 01:39:48,480Switzerland, Switzerland,Switzerland. Lugano?166801:39:49,620 --> 01:39:52,650Yeah, yeah, it's it's it'sthat's that's the166901:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,200that's the way to go. You know,the states in America can do167001:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,740that too. They can they can maketheir own money.167101:39:59,700 --> 01:40:05,100texts. First. Yeah, just sayingsir Bill 5000 SATs do fountain167201:40:05,100 --> 01:40:09,480he says for the marketingbudget. Hey, thank you. Dog here167301:40:09,480 --> 01:40:14,550it no here. Yes. Tommy. John'sBRT gave us 49,000 SATs do167401:40:14,550 --> 01:40:18,630fountain he says Theramin boostI gotta have more Theramin Oh167501:40:18,630 --> 01:40:21,120crap. We have a Theramin Yeah,we167601:40:21,119 --> 01:40:26,879do think we do let's see, I do aTheramin boost I think167701:40:39,330 --> 01:40:42,180never enough hands. I'm playingwith Theramin and I hit the167801:40:42,180 --> 01:40:43,740jingle and I needed an extrahand.167901:40:45,000 --> 01:40:49,200Got Sikora? Give us 5150 But OhI wonder if that's a Van Halen168001:40:49,200 --> 01:40:49,290but168101:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,140of course it has to be must bedoes he say anything?168201:40:52,470 --> 01:40:55,800He says first time boost. beenloving the show and appreciate168301:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,320all the information and hardwork you guys do for podcasting.168401:40:58,590 --> 01:41:03,150My podcast is talking beardstalking beards calm. Well, I168501:41:03,150 --> 01:41:10,260think we should bring back thenow that he boosted first ties,168601:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,110fragmented Yeah, got to bedefragmented168701:41:13,500 --> 01:41:19,800I think in that drips kid.Probably 11 to see the big row168801:41:19,800 --> 01:41:26,940of ones 1111 to see but what isthis? 11,111 through breeze nice168901:41:26,940 --> 01:41:28,500anonymous just as cheers.169001:41:29,730 --> 01:41:32,850Chad F in the chat room says youguys had a fake fight on the169101:41:32,850 --> 01:41:36,270last episode. Oh yeah, you gotus. You got us. It was a fake169201:41:36,270 --> 01:41:37,410fight. Fake.169301:41:37,440 --> 01:41:38,430They're all fake. They're169401:41:38,880 --> 01:41:41,070all legit. Well, that's why wefight.169501:41:41,550 --> 01:41:45,930Oh, Chad. Speak of the devilgive us 101 says he says this is169601:41:45,930 --> 01:41:47,370some next level shit.169701:41:48,510 --> 01:41:50,880Okay, okay, yeah.169801:41:50,909 --> 01:41:55,049Alrighty then. Martin throughpod friend gave us 100 SATs. He169901:41:55,049 --> 01:42:00,119says boost test. You can seewhen people are doing stuff170001:42:02,459 --> 01:42:08,489Krimson outwell gave us 6666That's a demon boost through170101:42:08,489 --> 01:42:12,539breeze. Oh, steam avatar name.Poli.170201:42:12,600 --> 01:42:19,290I made a mistake. What was it?I'm seeing Steven B. He says the170301:42:19,290 --> 01:42:22,020reason why Adams not seeing anyof the live boosts is because170401:42:22,020 --> 01:42:24,810it's boosted rev monitor isn'tin the value block.170501:42:25,980 --> 01:42:26,850Oh,170601:42:26,879 --> 01:42:32,969how come that didn't copy over?Well, so I'm sorry, then that is170701:42:32,999 --> 01:42:38,159operator failure. And I takeback everything I said. And170801:42:38,159 --> 01:42:40,439that's too bad. Becauseotherwise you would have had a170901:42:40,439 --> 01:42:45,209lot more. A lot more puce in theshow.171001:42:45,900 --> 01:42:48,960Bomber. Yeah. There's alwaysnext week. Yeah. Okay. All171101:42:48,960 --> 01:42:54,540right. Another lesson learned.Another 6666 Anonymous three171201:42:54,540 --> 01:42:59,010breeze and he says love mybreeze. We love racing. You do?171301:42:59,940 --> 01:43:04,260That's right. net net. And it's33 cents and you just as testing171401:43:05,040 --> 01:43:07,140just received that move171501:43:09,150 --> 01:43:10,95033 cents get out of town.171601:43:12,210 --> 01:43:16,920In the chat room kicker. For themere mortals podcast gave us171701:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,3302222 row of ducks.171801:43:18,360 --> 01:43:22,080Yeah, yeah. Rubber Ducks.171901:43:24,270 --> 01:43:27,570He says if you're going to startgoing live, we need the details.172001:43:27,810 --> 01:43:30,210What's the general start timeand if I donate enough sets will172101:43:30,210 --> 01:43:33,660you make it later? So I don'thave to wake up at an ungodly172201:43:33,690 --> 01:43:36,420hour. Oh, that's right. Becausein Australia, can I get a low172301:43:36,420 --> 01:43:42,900boost as well please add themand now as the French say it is172401:43:42,900 --> 01:43:44,700timeful low boost172501:43:45,060 --> 01:43:48,480that now I understand why I wasgetting booster grams from172601:43:48,480 --> 01:43:55,440Darren because he was doing iton breeze on episode 75 or 76 so172701:43:55,440 --> 01:43:59,700that is in the split. Okay,Mystery solved. Gotcha. I'm172801:43:59,700 --> 01:44:01,560pissed at myself now. Am it172901:44:02,700 --> 01:44:07,410get another test boost fromMartin and 400 SAS and then we173001:44:07,410 --> 01:44:12,780get a user this is Sir Harrypilgrim okay, I'm not gonna read173101:44:12,780 --> 01:44:17,250out this ungodly long numberhere. He said 3569 says to found173201:44:17,250 --> 01:44:19,710he says Sir Harry pilgrimboosting my birthday a couple of173301:44:19,710 --> 01:44:21,600days late fifth of March boost173401:44:21,630 --> 01:44:24,360Yes, baby boost boost.173501:44:26,370 --> 01:44:30,330Again, this looks like well, Idon't can't tell if this. These173601:44:30,330 --> 01:44:32,910are just numbers. You guys yougot to put a name in there. User173701:44:32,910 --> 01:44:39,360717454 bla bla bla bla bla gaveus 1000 SATs he says boost from173801:44:39,360 --> 01:44:46,260recovered podcast podcastinghope since 2,007x covered173901:44:46,260 --> 01:44:47,430podcast How you doing?174001:44:49,140 --> 01:44:53,100That was it. That was it? Well,and then we have our monthly174101:44:53,970 --> 01:44:56,250Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, thatwas that was it for that174201:44:56,250 --> 01:44:58,860message. Well, this is fromAdam. Is that you?174301:44:59,669 --> 01:45:00,869I don't know. What did I say?174401:45:01,350 --> 01:45:02,430He said Nice to meet you.174501:45:03,000 --> 01:45:08,730Ah, obvious demo booster gramdemo demo174601:45:11,190 --> 01:45:14,100so don't let the pastor knowthat you're self boosting as you174701:45:14,100 --> 01:45:20,640get to talking to Krimson Algol6666 again through brazenly says174801:45:20,640 --> 01:45:24,330booster grams are now 128characters in breeze Yay. Oh174901:45:24,330 --> 01:45:25,500that's nice175001:45:31,710 --> 01:45:37,26020,000 sets through fountainfrom Stephen North port Florida.175101:45:37,260 --> 01:45:41,010Keep doing what you're doing.Here's a boost for humanity175201:45:41,100 --> 01:45:41,730boost.175301:45:41,820 --> 01:45:49,920Oh, we need a boost forhumanity. Boost Okay. All in the175401:45:49,920 --> 01:45:50,460works.175501:45:51,570 --> 01:45:55,980Nomad Joe 2000 sets he says livesounds awesome.175601:45:56,610 --> 01:45:59,790We just did he just said that.Oh, no, that was from Spencer's175701:45:59,790 --> 01:46:00,690sweet. Yeah.175801:46:02,130 --> 01:46:07,680Oops, Toshi stream, send us 5552sets through fountain and he175901:46:07,680 --> 01:46:13,470says in terms of I like I likethese very, you know, the176001:46:14,160 --> 01:46:18,180conversational boost. In termsof amount of boost. Dave Jones176101:46:18,180 --> 01:46:20,850has second place for twoSatoshis dot stream podcast.176201:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,290Adam takes eighth place. Whatthat Dave is the same Dave to176301:46:25,320 --> 01:46:26,760its first place for Dave.176401:46:27,270 --> 01:46:34,050Boom. I'm a loser. But is thatis that is that in amount or176501:46:34,050 --> 01:46:34,860frequency?176601:46:35,310 --> 01:46:39,180Both? know you've talked aboutyour eighth place? Yeah, that176701:46:39,180 --> 01:46:39,750was a mount.176801:46:40,169 --> 01:46:43,229Okay. But I think I spend a lotof boosts.176901:46:44,430 --> 01:46:49,440One thing is one thing is veryis certain. I am the master of177001:46:49,440 --> 01:46:51,300boosting. I clearly I give177101:46:51,300 --> 01:46:55,770up so people need to support uswith more so that because Dave177201:46:55,770 --> 01:46:59,970is clearly funding the entirenetwork since day177301:46:59,970 --> 01:47:02,880one. I might. Yes. I mean daysmoney. i177401:47:03,240 --> 01:47:06,360It's it does feel like that alittle bit and I'm a bit177501:47:06,360 --> 01:47:09,690concerned about you. Do we needto have a booster vention?177601:47:11,460 --> 01:47:14,700Booster Vinted must havedownregulated177701:47:14,730 --> 01:47:17,310Oh, you mean Melissa beat youover the head and said what?177801:47:18,060 --> 01:47:19,680What are all these charges?177901:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,890I prefer to say that I did it tomyself.178001:47:26,430 --> 01:47:30,660To you David asked me said howmany posts? Do you really said?178101:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,910Circular baby? I don't know.Moving around internet tokens?178201:47:35,910 --> 01:47:39,330Yes, exactly. It's internetmoney. Exactly.178301:47:40,050 --> 01:47:45,240Mike Caden, he have red circlecenters. 2222. Sets road ducks.178401:47:45,600 --> 01:47:49,950He says. He says prematureejaculation.178501:47:56,070 --> 01:47:57,090That's hilarious.178601:47:57,300 --> 01:48:00,840And Niall sin is 101 He saysgreat comment.178701:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,860Okay. All right. Thank you. Weaim to please.178801:48:05,190 --> 01:48:09,090Yes, yes. I thought it was too.Yeah. Ron pleau. Now, can178901:48:09,090 --> 01:48:12,540I just say something? If we ifwe ever implement the timelines,179001:48:13,110 --> 01:48:16,980then you know, you could in yourinterface, click on that. And it179101:48:16,980 --> 01:48:19,800would say, Oh, this is exactlywhere he boosted grabbed and we179201:48:19,800 --> 01:48:21,390would know what he was talkingabout.179301:48:21,930 --> 01:48:25,770We'll see we had this good. Wehad such an excellent idea of179401:48:25,770 --> 01:48:28,920putting a link to this timestampwhere you can just click on it179501:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,400and listen to it. Does thatwork? It does it absolutely does179601:48:32,400 --> 01:48:36,300work. Well. I'm too lazy toactually do it. So179701:48:36,570 --> 01:48:37,980is that in heli pad two?179801:48:40,170 --> 01:48:43,200Oh, no, it's not exposed inHello, Pat. That's a good idea.179901:48:43,230 --> 01:48:44,190I should expose that.180001:48:45,720 --> 01:48:52,260expose it Dave Jones exposure?Yeah. As That's called being a180101:48:52,260 --> 01:48:55,620podcaster this is this is theDave That's the podcaster who is180201:48:55,650 --> 01:48:57,210a good podcaster180301:48:57,960 --> 01:49:03,540Ron ploof send us 211,200 sang180401:49:04,560 --> 01:49:07,260Holy moly. I'm gonna roll outthe big baller for a180501:49:08,340 --> 01:49:12,120shot Carla 20 blades on I amPaula.180601:49:12,780 --> 01:49:18,720Boost. A hunt this a 100x Rushboost as a Thanks to Dave for180701:49:18,720 --> 01:49:19,860helping me here my first180801:49:19,860 --> 01:49:21,570few Oh,180901:49:22,710 --> 01:49:26,100griddle cakes radio podcastexploring the lost art of audio181001:49:26,100 --> 01:49:28,200storytelling since 2005.181101:49:28,590 --> 01:49:30,930griddle cakes lost audio podcast181201:49:31,260 --> 01:49:33,390griddle cakes radio podcast.181301:49:33,420 --> 01:49:36,090Oh, I know griddle cakes. Ithink they've been around181401:49:36,090 --> 01:49:36,810forever.181501:49:37,200 --> 01:49:38,760Ron please do you know rounds.181601:49:39,360 --> 01:49:44,070I know his his brother David.David. Okay. Luke wasn't a181701:49:44,070 --> 01:49:49,950speechwriter for Obama. No. He'sa different guy. Great. Okay.181801:49:49,980 --> 01:49:51,780Cakes radio. Sounds veryfamiliar to me.181901:49:52,530 --> 01:49:54,300Thank you for the Yes, thank182001:49:54,300 --> 01:49:56,670you so much for that support.Killer.182101:49:57,570 --> 01:50:01,020Floridian slips and it's 5000SATs. To found and then he says182201:50:01,260 --> 01:50:03,810thanks for assisting on podcastindex dot social Dave182301:50:03,870 --> 01:50:06,660boost yo, boost boost boostboost182401:50:06,930 --> 01:50:14,190boost see three more. Nicholasbhuntar been I'm going to this182501:50:14,190 --> 01:50:16,170get a little dots over the topof the use I'm going to say182601:50:16,170 --> 01:50:20,280booster booster. Nicholasbhuntar PS bar is gone gunta182701:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,4201000 SATs through breeze and hesays boosting for podcasting 2.0182801:50:24,420 --> 01:50:24,930heart.182901:50:25,290 --> 01:50:28,020Ah fat streaming back atcha183001:50:28,170 --> 01:50:33,720We love you too. Sir Doug sent4400 sets through fountain he183101:50:33,720 --> 01:50:34,500says boobs183201:50:34,530 --> 01:50:35,160yo yo183301:50:37,980 --> 01:50:41,070Yep, we're at the end of the endof the day louder. The comics183401:50:41,070 --> 01:50:45,930through blogger donation, comicstrip blogger 10,033 sets183501:50:46,080 --> 01:50:48,960through pod friend and he saysHi, Dave and Adam, thank you for183601:50:48,960 --> 01:50:51,300your service to podcasting. Andif your listeners want to hear183701:50:51,300 --> 01:50:54,450latest news about artificialintelligence, they're invited to183801:50:54,450 --> 01:50:58,050listen to AI cooking. bi weeklypodcast spoken by Gregory183901:50:58,050 --> 01:51:00,150William Forsythe Foreman fromkin, yo.184001:51:00,930 --> 01:51:03,510Yo. Comics your blogger184101:51:04,260 --> 01:51:10,950gets monthly. Cameron rose giveus $25 Jeremy new $5 pod verse184201:51:10,980 --> 01:51:17,670$50. Mitch Downey $10 ChrisChara Barak $10, Terry Keller,184301:51:17,670 --> 01:51:23,580$5. And I added this little bitin here that I wanted to say if184401:51:23,580 --> 01:51:29,400you have any ability to donateanything extra, you know, it184501:51:29,400 --> 01:51:33,180would be good to go in anddonate to things like in a tube184601:51:34,050 --> 01:51:37,080that Alex is running out of hisown pocket and podcast184701:51:37,080 --> 01:51:41,070social.org from John running itstuff out of his own pocket.184801:51:42,300 --> 01:51:46,980It's just I would I would liketo just make it make it clear184901:51:46,980 --> 01:51:48,750that there's a lot of peoplewill pay for stuff out of their185001:51:48,750 --> 01:51:52,230own pocket. And it's always goodto support them. You know, if185101:51:52,230 --> 01:51:54,870you can what is it?185201:51:54,900 --> 01:51:56,730What are they? What a passionateplea Dave?185301:51:57,270 --> 01:52:03,270Thank you. It's Chuck CharaBarak. Yes. Yes, sorry. I have185401:52:03,270 --> 01:52:09,480to say, go for it. Nice.185501:52:10,080 --> 01:52:12,750I considered muting it but I'mlike now why let a good sneeze185601:52:12,750 --> 01:52:13,560go to waste.185701:52:13,830 --> 01:52:16,230You had a you had a nice newmicrophone and you just185801:52:16,230 --> 01:52:16,650destroyed185901:52:18,060 --> 01:52:22,680John Spurlock man, you are a gemand and we're very, very186001:52:22,710 --> 01:52:25,470fortunate and blessed to haveyou inside the group. And I186101:52:25,470 --> 01:52:29,430really, really enjoyed sparringwith Spurlock a bit today.186201:52:29,610 --> 01:52:34,500sparring with Spurlock. I thinkit's exciting. I think. I think186301:52:34,920 --> 01:52:36,840one of the cool things aboutthis community is that186401:52:36,840 --> 01:52:39,390everyone's I think what Davesaid a while ago is that we're186501:52:39,390 --> 01:52:41,340here because we're passionateabout it, right? We're here186601:52:41,340 --> 01:52:46,200because we have to be here. Noone's paying us to be here. So I186701:52:46,200 --> 01:52:48,240think it's gonna be reallyinteresting to see what happens186801:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,050over the next few months. And,you know, I, I appreciate all186901:52:52,050 --> 01:52:53,760you guys do and keep going.187001:52:53,970 --> 01:52:56,670Yeah. And do you want do youwant to just wrap it up a bit187101:52:56,670 --> 01:53:01,650with your podcast social.org,just so we can send187201:53:01,650 --> 01:53:04,020people there when listening tothis podcast is probably already187301:53:04,020 --> 01:53:06,360familiar. But I would, I wouldbasically say the podcast187401:53:06,360 --> 01:53:10,590social.org site is just a quickoverview site for everyone in187501:53:10,590 --> 01:53:13,650the podcasting ecosystem tolearn about the new tag, now187601:53:13,650 --> 01:53:16,200that it's going to be in thenext phase. So now's the time to187701:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,160get hyped and excited about it.And then for app developers,187801:53:20,160 --> 01:53:23,100there's a few components. So ifyou want to read activity pub187901:53:23,100 --> 01:53:27,000comments, there's an NPM packagecalled thread cap out there188001:53:27,000 --> 01:53:30,270that's free to use open source.And then if you're an app that188101:53:30,270 --> 01:53:32,280wants to do that niceintegration that we're talking188201:53:32,280 --> 01:53:35,550about from the mobile app,you're going to need to have a188301:53:35,550 --> 01:53:39,120server. So I have an open sourceserver component that basically188401:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,930you can use to do that. Andthat's your mini mini. Yeah,188501:53:43,230 --> 01:53:43,590yep.188601:53:44,760 --> 01:53:48,120Can you John, can you send me anhour? We talked about this on188701:53:48,120 --> 01:53:52,050the dev meeting, but I thinkMartin may have forgotten. Can188801:53:52,050 --> 01:53:56,580you send me like a like a sampleoutput a thread cap? Because I'm188901:53:56,850 --> 01:53:59,820importing it to PHP. And Ireally just Can I ask189001:53:59,850 --> 01:54:01,260what thread cap is189101:54:02,490 --> 01:54:05,760it's just a way to take asnapshot of an activity pub189201:54:05,910 --> 01:54:08,790Convo, right. So you like youtake the route comment, and then189301:54:08,790 --> 01:54:11,340some program needs to go andenumerate Oh, what are the189401:54:11,340 --> 01:54:14,790replies? What are the replies tothat reply? You get it and then189501:54:14,790 --> 01:54:18,330so and then at the end, you'rejust left with like a threaded,189601:54:18,630 --> 01:54:22,020Jason object, basically. So itmakes people that are used to189701:54:22,020 --> 01:54:25,050just dealing with like a singlejson file hopefully makes a189801:54:25,050 --> 01:54:28,380little easier to integrate. Itsactivity Pub is not that hard to189901:54:28,380 --> 01:54:32,430use. But it's a little messybecause like RSS, like everyone190001:54:32,430 --> 01:54:35,400does things a littledifferently. So REDCap kind of190101:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,010papers over some of that stuff.Yeah.190201:54:38,490 --> 01:54:41,790Can you send me a sample outputthough of like, just just what190301:54:41,790 --> 01:54:44,310it looks like? The thing isgonna be easier than trying to190401:54:44,310 --> 01:54:47,160go line by line through yourcode and intro to sort of poured190501:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,100it and then FF like I just aimfor a target of what the outputs190601:54:50,100 --> 01:54:50,970supposed to look like.190701:54:51,930 --> 01:54:55,980Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Okay. Isnot good enough.190801:54:57,300 --> 01:55:02,880I would not say it that way.What I would say is that I'm190901:55:02,880 --> 01:55:04,740terrible at JavaScript, thatwould be the way I would191001:55:04,740 --> 01:55:05,190describe it.191101:55:05,340 --> 01:55:07,920Yeah, I would say things arevery early days on this, right.191201:55:07,920 --> 01:55:10,770So everyone, that's anyone thathas any feedback on any of the191301:55:10,770 --> 01:55:13,830projects that I'm doing oranything like that. And I think191401:55:13,860 --> 01:55:17,700gear may actually was going backand forth pod station, is doing191501:55:17,970 --> 01:55:21,480yeoman's work of like filingbugs against Yes. And getting191601:55:21,480 --> 01:55:24,270some of those fixed, oh,dynamite. So he's been doing191701:55:24,270 --> 01:55:26,250really good work. So we've beenI'll definitely integrate191801:55:26,250 --> 01:55:30,240whatever he's, he's finding intothe mini pub documentation,191901:55:30,240 --> 01:55:32,970actually have some example ifpeople want to not use mini pub,192001:55:32,970 --> 01:55:35,730but just want to do itthemselves. I even have some192101:55:35,730 --> 01:55:38,490documents and like, here's whatMastodon comes back with. Here's192201:55:38,490 --> 01:55:42,150what Pleroma comes back withacid that might be of interest192301:55:42,150 --> 01:55:44,010to developers that are kind oflike me and want to do192401:55:44,010 --> 01:55:44,880everything themselves.192501:55:45,360 --> 01:55:47,460Yeah, sure. Seems like partycode.192601:55:47,520 --> 01:55:52,050Sure. Seems like activity Pub isis a winner. The stuff we're192701:55:52,050 --> 01:55:54,450doing with it? I mean, it justseems like it's a big thing192801:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,570overall, for decentralized,whatever, whatever it is, the192901:55:57,570 --> 01:55:58,980whole world is kind of building.193001:55:59,339 --> 01:56:04,349Yeah, it just we just need toolslike thread cap where, where193101:56:04,349 --> 01:56:08,249people like James can just havea tool to output this stuff into193201:56:08,249 --> 01:56:10,949a usable format on the side andnot have to do all the guts193301:56:10,949 --> 01:56:14,639implementation of activity pub,that, that we need the next we193401:56:14,639 --> 01:56:19,319need a next layer up, thingslike that. Yeah, because that's193501:56:19,529 --> 01:56:22,469one of the reasons I'm trying todo the red cap into PHP is193601:56:22,469 --> 01:56:26,129because we're just need more ofthose layers193701:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,040of useful for a pod friend, Ithink too, right. I think his193801:56:29,040 --> 01:56:30,900back end and thinks of you. Soyeah, thanks.193901:56:31,620 --> 01:56:34,530Thanks. Thanks to all of oursupporters with your time your194001:56:34,530 --> 01:56:38,070talent, your treasure, thanks towell everyone who supported194101:56:38,070 --> 01:56:42,780this. Steven B. Thank you verymuch for your guidance. Alex194201:56:42,780 --> 01:56:46,890gates is hanging out in the inthe chat room. Who else is in194301:56:46,890 --> 01:56:51,480there though? Chad F. Yeah. It'sour cast, sir. bemrose making194401:56:51,480 --> 01:56:53,730sure we don't screw up the chat.Appreciate that.194501:56:53,790 --> 01:56:55,080Steven bass Spencer.194601:56:57,270 --> 01:57:01,410And I'll have the value blocksstuffs sorted for for the next194701:57:01,410 --> 01:57:04,860episode. Thank you both for yourfor your patience with me and194801:57:04,860 --> 01:57:11,970for your passion. Yeah. That'sthe passion I'm talking about194901:57:11,970 --> 01:57:16,230right there. Thanks, guys. Havea great weekend. All right.195001:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,970That's it for podcasting. 2.0Episode number 77. We back with195101:57:20,970 --> 01:57:23,910another board meeting next week.See you then. Take care195201:57:23,910 --> 01:57:24,990everybody have a good weekend?195301:57:41,250 --> 01:57:45,840You have been listening topodcasting 2.0 Visit podcast195401:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,480index.org. For more information