Episode 77: Is that a minipub in your pocket?

1 00:00:00,780 --> 00:00:05,550 podcasting 2.0 for March 11 2020, to Episode 77 Is that a 2 00:00:05,550 --> 00:00:09,870 mini pub in your pockets? Alright, and just happy to see 3 00:00:09,870 --> 00:00:14,280 me. Are you happy to be here at the board meeting of podcasting 4 00:00:14,280 --> 00:00:17,640 2.0 Everything happening in podcast index.org, the podcast 5 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:21,570 namespace, and of course, all the creativity and the good 6 00:00:21,570 --> 00:00:25,380 juice at podcast index dot social, special live board 7 00:00:25,380 --> 00:00:27,960 meeting today. I'm Adam curry here in the heart of the Texas 8 00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,680 Hill Country. And in Alabama, the man who edits SQL by hand my 9 00:00:31,680 --> 00:00:35,490 friend on the other end, ladies and gentlemen, Mr. De Jones, 10 00:00:35,880 --> 00:00:41,100 live board meeting. Live board meeting, baby. Yeah. This is 11 00:00:41,640 --> 00:00:42,570 very exciting. 12 00:00:43,380 --> 00:00:46,800 Yeah, the did anybody inform the secretary? Did people just start 13 00:00:47,040 --> 00:00:49,620 streaming in she had no, it wasn't on the calendar. 14 00:00:50,220 --> 00:00:53,400 That's pretty much the way it went down. So what we're talking 15 00:00:53,400 --> 00:00:58,350 about is today we are live with the live tagging the RSS feed, 16 00:00:58,350 --> 00:01:02,910 which means at least one podcast app, if you use it would have 17 00:01:02,910 --> 00:01:07,080 notified you that the stream is live. And you can play this in 18 00:01:07,410 --> 00:01:10,590 the app. And I believe there's also a chat in the app. Am I 19 00:01:10,590 --> 00:01:11,070 correct? 20 00:01:12,750 --> 00:01:16,350 Chat is supposed to be I think it's just an iframe. I'm 21 00:01:16,350 --> 00:01:19,650 actually scared too scared to hit this live button because I'm 22 00:01:19,650 --> 00:01:23,880 afraid it's gonna like come back on me and I'll start playing and 23 00:01:23,970 --> 00:01:24,990 it's gonna freak me out because 24 00:01:24,990 --> 00:01:27,900 my curio caster wasn't showing me the live items. So I just 25 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:31,890 want to I just want to go there it is. 77 live. Okay, I only 26 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:35,520 showed up so I just want to know, there it is. Oh, oh, wow, 27 00:01:35,520 --> 00:01:40,860 this is trippy. Now we just boost myself just for good 28 00:01:40,860 --> 00:01:41,820 measure. Okay. 29 00:01:43,770 --> 00:01:45,960 Break the internet and stop it. Alright, so 30 00:01:45,990 --> 00:01:49,590 this kind of works. It was very confusing. I was using sovereign 31 00:01:49,590 --> 00:01:52,980 feeds to set up the all the trigger stuff, the live items. 32 00:01:54,030 --> 00:01:58,350 And it was I was just just like, oh, what parameters do I need is 33 00:01:58,350 --> 00:02:02,580 like, oh, a chat room. And then the story is just Oh, man. I 34 00:02:02,580 --> 00:02:05,520 just I couldn't quite wrap my head around it, then Steven be 35 00:02:05,910 --> 00:02:10,230 created. And I also couldn't find the live item tag. Like, 36 00:02:10,230 --> 00:02:14,010 where is it? I guess at the bottom. I expected that to be at 37 00:02:14,010 --> 00:02:19,680 the top for stupid reasons, I guess, in the just where it 38 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,200 shows up just physically in the feed. I wasn't expecting it 39 00:02:22,200 --> 00:02:24,180 there. So I was like, I couldn't figure out what was being 40 00:02:24,210 --> 00:02:28,050 output. He sent me an RSS feed. I uploaded that one then I did 41 00:02:28,050 --> 00:02:29,970 the second one. myself 42 00:02:30,180 --> 00:02:32,700 when we went live. So all by yourself. 43 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,710 Yes, Dave all by myself, I'm proud of me Come on this. If I 44 00:02:37,710 --> 00:02:42,270 can't do it, who's gonna be able to do it? I'm low on the on the 45 00:02:42,270 --> 00:02:42,690 wrong. 46 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:47,160 User friendly is not exactly how you would describe any, any of 47 00:02:47,160 --> 00:02:48,960 this. Well, what at all? 48 00:02:49,049 --> 00:02:52,679 What's cool, I mean, I like the idea of setting it in advance 49 00:02:52,679 --> 00:02:55,769 and then publishing the feed. So you know, okay, we'll be live, I 50 00:02:56,099 --> 00:03:00,659 think 1230. But then you have to do that, again, when you go 51 00:03:00,659 --> 00:03:04,079 live. And that should just be a click, you know, it's like it 52 00:03:04,079 --> 00:03:06,509 should know what to do. And I shouldn't have to go there and 53 00:03:06,509 --> 00:03:10,559 create a new episode. Copy the old one. I mean, obviously, as 54 00:03:10,559 --> 00:03:14,429 we as this matures, and it'll get better, it's just right now 55 00:03:14,429 --> 00:03:15,809 is kind of like holy crap. 56 00:03:16,590 --> 00:03:20,190 Honestly, the best part about this whole thing is that I can 57 00:03:20,190 --> 00:03:22,500 look at curio caster and remember what the show number 58 00:03:22,500 --> 00:03:28,110 is. And because that's a consistent problem with me. 59 00:03:28,530 --> 00:03:28,920 Yeah. 60 00:03:29,550 --> 00:03:32,130 Alright, man, how we have a good guest today, we should bring him 61 00:03:32,130 --> 00:03:34,890 in pretty quickly. There's anything we need to discuss 62 00:03:34,890 --> 00:03:37,110 before we get rolling. What are you working on? It seems like 63 00:03:37,110 --> 00:03:38,940 you've been still doing some cleanup stuff. 64 00:03:40,050 --> 00:03:44,070 While I've been working on the aggregator, so the, you know, we 65 00:03:44,070 --> 00:03:49,260 talked last week a little bit about how the aggregator that we 66 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:57,000 brought into podcast index was the one from sort of the final 67 00:03:57,000 --> 00:04:00,300 revision of the of the aggregator from Freedom 68 00:04:00,300 --> 00:04:05,490 controller. Okay, so I took that, and it's, it's a two piece 69 00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,840 as a two piece aggregators got a polar, a feed puller, and then a 70 00:04:09,840 --> 00:04:12,930 feed parser. So that they can run parallel. And there's this 71 00:04:12,960 --> 00:04:18,120 basically, it's two separate JavaScript, Node js scripts, and 72 00:04:18,120 --> 00:04:20,220 one's called party time, which is the parser. The other one is 73 00:04:20,220 --> 00:04:24,420 called aggravate, which is the polar, right? And so then you, 74 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:28,950 we took those, dropped them into podcast index code base, and 75 00:04:28,950 --> 00:04:32,970 then modified the crap out of them to be to do the things that 76 00:04:32,970 --> 00:04:38,670 we needed to do for for podcast index. Party time works fine. 77 00:04:39,030 --> 00:04:42,570 It's, it's a little it's messy, because it was written as fast 78 00:04:42,570 --> 00:04:46,230 as humanly possible. So it's, it's still messy but aggravate 79 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:53,400 is based on the old node request module, which has been 80 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:54,510 deprecated. Now, 81 00:04:55,050 --> 00:04:57,600 in node node request module, 82 00:04:57,900 --> 00:05:02,220 node j. S. They had Like a built in library for doing HTTP 83 00:05:02,220 --> 00:05:08,400 requests now. Okay. And it's been it's been deprecated. Since 84 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:15,390 I think node 14, maybe in their own like, I think the current 85 00:05:15,690 --> 00:05:19,260 long term stable is 16. Now, for node, 86 00:05:19,470 --> 00:05:21,360 so it was time. Yeah, 87 00:05:21,390 --> 00:05:24,030 I mean, it was creaky even I think they deprecated it because 88 00:05:24,030 --> 00:05:26,910 it wasn't very reliable anyway, you know, as as, as a 89 00:05:26,940 --> 00:05:31,920 as a systems admin, yourself, I mean, that. I know you do a lot 90 00:05:31,920 --> 00:05:35,010 of customer facing stuff in your real job, but also just all the, 91 00:05:35,070 --> 00:05:38,880 you know, a lot of back end. Is this like a never ending thing, 92 00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,240 just all these upgrades? Is that just this is just Yes. I mean, 93 00:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,240 this is a determine your life to a degree when all that's coming, 94 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,880 and then I have to upgrade those three things, because they have 95 00:05:47,880 --> 00:05:50,580 dependencies and all this stuff. Yep. 96 00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,540 If you live and die by the EO by the AOL table, the end of life 97 00:05:54,540 --> 00:05:57,000 chart from every software vendor? 98 00:05:57,480 --> 00:05:59,910 Oh, yeah, that's published ahead of time. So you know, you know, 99 00:05:59,910 --> 00:06:01,350 when when a new version is coming? 100 00:06:01,800 --> 00:06:05,910 Yes. Like the most recent thing is in the day job is going 101 00:06:05,910 --> 00:06:09,330 through and purging Microsoft SQL Server 2014 Out of 102 00:06:09,330 --> 00:06:11,940 everything and upgrading, because that's about to go into 103 00:06:11,940 --> 00:06:12,240 fly. 104 00:06:12,690 --> 00:06:15,690 That sounds really fun. Oh, it's great. Yeah. Oh, boy. 105 00:06:15,810 --> 00:06:21,600 It's a party. Let me tell you bring beer. No, it's yeah, 106 00:06:21,600 --> 00:06:25,440 that's that got deprecated. And then it was never very reliable 107 00:06:25,440 --> 00:06:31,830 to begin with, even when it was actually supported. And so I've 108 00:06:31,830 --> 00:06:36,090 known for a while that I needed to rewrite this thing. And it's, 109 00:06:36,270 --> 00:06:39,420 it's the simpler of the two. It's not 110 00:06:39,510 --> 00:06:42,660 so simple. When you say rewrite, does that mean a whole code 111 00:06:42,660 --> 00:06:46,710 rewrite? Or just Yes? scrapped from really? Yeah. Now, do you 112 00:06:46,710 --> 00:06:49,410 already have these? I'm just curious about the process. No 113 00:06:49,410 --> 00:06:53,700 one No one ever asked developers I guess numbnuts like me, so So 114 00:06:53,700 --> 00:06:56,400 you have your your basic structure of the program? Are 115 00:06:56,400 --> 00:07:00,990 you going to literally start line one new file? Or are you 116 00:07:00,990 --> 00:07:05,040 going to take that structure and do some some adaptation copy 117 00:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,060 paste? Basically, 118 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:14,250 this one was pretty much cargo new project, just blank file 119 00:07:14,250 --> 00:07:20,220 starting from scratch. Wow. That Because? Because it's not? It's 120 00:07:20,220 --> 00:07:24,330 not super complicated. When this when this software is all said 121 00:07:24,330 --> 00:07:29,100 and done? We're probably talking about Yeah, 1000 lines of code 122 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:29,760 or less? Oh, I 123 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:30,540 can hold that. 124 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:33,420 Why am I doing it? 125 00:07:34,770 --> 00:07:37,260 handed over? I'll take care of it. Yeah. But 126 00:07:38,790 --> 00:07:42,450 that, yeah, it's pretty much a straight, clean rewrite, there's 127 00:07:42,450 --> 00:07:46,200 really no as there's no porting going on, because I don't like 128 00:07:46,200 --> 00:07:51,360 the way that the olds dole thing was written anyway. And so what 129 00:07:51,360 --> 00:07:55,590 it's going to do is it's going to, it's going to just accept 130 00:07:55,710 --> 00:08:00,720 the current the current version of, of the polar, it, it does a 131 00:08:00,720 --> 00:08:07,320 query on the database to get a batch of feeds, and then loads 132 00:08:07,320 --> 00:08:12,480 them all up in a in, in a an asynchronous, it just fires them 133 00:08:12,480 --> 00:08:16,530 all off asynchronously. Then as they fit as each one finishes 134 00:08:16,530 --> 00:08:21,600 its job, it determines what happened with HTTP status code 135 00:08:21,600 --> 00:08:26,160 was what that means. And then it updates the database 136 00:08:26,550 --> 00:08:30,420 individually. So for every time the polar kicks off, there's 137 00:08:30,420 --> 00:08:36,780 this flurry of database calls, okay. And what I want to do is 138 00:08:36,780 --> 00:08:40,260 get rid of that, what I would like to do is do one, one, 139 00:08:41,160 --> 00:08:45,450 select have a hope of n get a whole bunch of feed IDs based on 140 00:08:45,450 --> 00:08:51,660 some criteria, load them up in a queue, and then have the polar 141 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:56,940 just grab all those feed IDs, and URLs, grab the feed IDs and 142 00:08:56,940 --> 00:09:02,430 URLs from the queue fire everything off when and as they 143 00:09:02,430 --> 00:09:10,620 finish write them to feed files then include the HTTP status 144 00:09:10,620 --> 00:09:16,500 code and e Tag and last modified header in the feed file. This 145 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:20,670 and party time will come through and pick up those feed oh 146 00:09:20,670 --> 00:09:24,150 right you told me about this yes yeah. Now what guys You had me 147 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:26,880 that polar and party time? I mean, it's like yeah, you 148 00:09:26,880 --> 00:09:31,140 already had me there. So but this this will probably be this 149 00:09:31,140 --> 00:09:34,110 will have an AOL itself this will this will be dead when pod 150 00:09:34,110 --> 00:09:35,340 ping finally takes over. 151 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,900 Yeah, but that I'm hoping, selfishly, that that's not for a 152 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:42,570 while just so that I won't have to consider this a waste of my 153 00:09:42,570 --> 00:09:42,810 time. 154 00:09:43,950 --> 00:09:47,190 Well, I don't think it's ever a waste. But Oh god this 155 00:09:47,190 --> 00:09:52,200 thing is fast. Yo, it is so fast. It's my how fast this is 156 00:09:52,230 --> 00:09:58,380 for it is. Let's see. We're the last test I did last night was 157 00:09:58,380 --> 00:10:00,420 about 1200 feet a minute in it. 158 00:10:01,469 --> 00:10:05,159 Wow. And how many parallel processes is that? 159 00:10:06,509 --> 00:10:09,089 It is their threads so they're not as threaded. 160 00:10:09,420 --> 00:10:12,090 So 1200 threads in a minute, basically. 161 00:10:12,930 --> 00:10:17,490 Yeah, that mean the way that they look is the request library 162 00:10:17,490 --> 00:10:21,990 inside of rust is so good. It's it is so top notch. 163 00:10:21,990 --> 00:10:24,060 Hey, Dave. How good is it? 164 00:10:25,410 --> 00:10:31,710 Oh, it's so good that I had to get a get a drink afterwards. 165 00:10:32,190 --> 00:10:33,210 ever smoked dinner? 166 00:10:35,220 --> 00:10:39,480 No, it's fantastic because it looks like you can fire off 1000 167 00:10:39,480 --> 00:10:44,760 feeds have it do its job. And the memory usage for the 168 00:10:44,760 --> 00:10:50,670 process. Never goes above about 100 Meg's hmm it's it's that 169 00:10:50,670 --> 00:10:54,540 good. I did 10,000 feeds the other day. A fire those off in 170 00:10:54,540 --> 00:10:59,880 it. It got all 10,000 in about two minutes. 20 seconds. This 171 00:10:59,880 --> 00:11:04,320 thing is this this? That's good. Yeah. And this is all on a file. 172 00:11:04,830 --> 00:11:09,810 This is all on a $5 a month Linode with with a single CPU 173 00:11:09,840 --> 00:11:14,370 with non dedicated shared CPU and only like a gig of RAM. 174 00:11:14,520 --> 00:11:19,710 Right $5 Now but after this Amazon purchase, you know 15 175 00:11:20,190 --> 00:11:25,980 Yeah, yeah, it'll go up. I'm sorry. aka my Yeah, you know, 176 00:11:25,980 --> 00:11:28,290 it's interesting. I have not received a single boost from 177 00:11:28,290 --> 00:11:33,300 anybody yet. I wonder why that is. And guess people don't care. 178 00:11:33,750 --> 00:11:35,040 I see them talking about it. 179 00:11:35,790 --> 00:11:40,170 Is it are these booths best to be showing up in the chat room? 180 00:11:40,680 --> 00:11:41,250 They wouldn't know 181 00:11:41,250 --> 00:11:43,770 but they would show up on the heli pad because I have the the 182 00:11:43,770 --> 00:11:47,850 boosts monitor split so they would show up but I haven't seen 183 00:11:47,850 --> 00:11:50,340 any and even the one that I sent earlier has and I wonder if 184 00:11:50,340 --> 00:11:54,180 that's the the LNP locking again 185 00:11:55,680 --> 00:11:57,240 LNP locking Yeah, 186 00:11:57,270 --> 00:12:00,390 what if too many people are trying to boost at the same time 187 00:12:00,390 --> 00:12:03,180 then it locks and it waits and does all kinds of stuff. 188 00:12:03,239 --> 00:12:04,709 So I'm gonna try right now. Yeah. 189 00:12:06,510 --> 00:12:07,530 I'm going to send a boost. 190 00:12:08,070 --> 00:12:11,340 Yeah, well, I sent myself a boost. Now I know this illegal 191 00:12:11,340 --> 00:12:14,730 in several states but still I self boosted and it didn't come 192 00:12:14,730 --> 00:12:20,190 through and I was boosting from curio caster. Okay, yeah, I got 193 00:12:20,700 --> 00:12:27,240 he got one. Who's a Dara? No. All right, Darrin Oh 10,034 sets 194 00:12:27,270 --> 00:12:32,460 one more than comics through blogger. Thank you for your 195 00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:33,390 courage. Yes, thank 196 00:12:33,390 --> 00:12:36,180 you. No, he just says see Darrin just added himself. This is 197 00:12:36,180 --> 00:12:38,850 proof that Darrin actually has sat in a wallet. He just never 198 00:12:38,910 --> 00:12:40,230 he just never spins them. And he sent 199 00:12:40,230 --> 00:12:43,470 it from breeze about that. 200 00:12:44,640 --> 00:12:45,630 I'm gonna boost here. 201 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,520 Interesting. Interesting. Came in although the came in his 202 00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:53,190 podcast in 2.0, episode 75 203 00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,090 I just sent a boost. Okay. 100 I wonder if 204 00:12:57,090 --> 00:13:01,410 that's an oh, you know, breeze is interesting because it's a 205 00:13:01,470 --> 00:13:04,470 it's a full node and really has to be running for it to be able 206 00:13:04,470 --> 00:13:07,740 to process payments. So if you just boost something and you 207 00:13:07,740 --> 00:13:11,100 close the app, then it probably won't send that boosts and or I 208 00:13:11,100 --> 00:13:14,880 guess booster Graham until much later. Oh, breeze doesn't 209 00:13:14,880 --> 00:13:17,790 support live item? Of course. I'm sorry. What am I thinking? 210 00:13:17,940 --> 00:13:21,720 So he Yeah, he just grabbed a random episode. Well, okay, why 211 00:13:21,720 --> 00:13:24,900 don't we share some of this with our guests, Dave, since we're 212 00:13:24,900 --> 00:13:28,560 going to be talking a lot about what's going on the most the 213 00:13:28,560 --> 00:13:32,670 most recent developments that we've been working on for the 214 00:13:32,670 --> 00:13:36,270 namespace and of course, all of that podcast index dot social, 215 00:13:36,300 --> 00:13:39,780 anyone who already has an account can get send you an 216 00:13:39,780 --> 00:13:42,990 invite to your preferences. So if anyone's looking for account 217 00:13:42,990 --> 00:13:46,440 looking to join, we just had to shut that off because I was I 218 00:13:46,440 --> 00:13:50,520 get these trending emails of what you know what what what is 219 00:13:50,520 --> 00:13:54,960 trending on our Mastodon server somehow it knows this. Believe 220 00:13:54,960 --> 00:13:56,850 me. That's it a bunch of political call. Yeah. All 221 00:13:56,850 --> 00:14:03,570 political. Yeah. Welcome in. John Spurlock is here ladies and 222 00:14:03,570 --> 00:14:05,700 gentlemen. Welcome to the board meeting, John. 223 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:07,950 Hey, nice to be here. Can you hear me? 224 00:14:08,010 --> 00:14:11,970 Yeah, we hear you. Good. We can hear you. Yes. Yeah, we got you. 225 00:14:11,970 --> 00:14:12,360 We got 226 00:14:12,750 --> 00:14:14,160 siblings. You know, John. 227 00:14:15,270 --> 00:14:19,320 I don't really even know. Your background. 228 00:14:21,270 --> 00:14:22,260 See, internet? 229 00:14:23,130 --> 00:14:26,670 Yes. Well, cuz I heard I heard you were on. Were you on pod 230 00:14:26,670 --> 00:14:28,140 land recently? I think. Yeah. I 231 00:14:28,140 --> 00:14:31,680 was on pod line last week. Yeah. And like how this this guy 232 00:14:31,680 --> 00:14:36,270 has some history that I'm not aware of? And maybe others. I'd 233 00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:38,700 love to know a little bit about how you came to podcasting to 234 00:14:38,700 --> 00:14:40,170 promote what you were doing before? 235 00:14:41,100 --> 00:14:45,300 Yeah, sure, sure. So I guess I've been doing software now for 236 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,130 over 20 years and a full time sort of capacity. So I still I 237 00:14:50,130 --> 00:14:52,350 still like writing software. I still like making stuff. That's 238 00:14:52,350 --> 00:14:56,340 kind of my MO. I worked at kind of a financial sort of 239 00:14:56,340 --> 00:14:59,250 background for a little bit did some trading systems 240 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:01,860 integration. You know, Enterprise Architecture and 241 00:15:01,860 --> 00:15:07,170 that's yummy. Yeah, exactly. You know, database stuff. I started 242 00:15:07,170 --> 00:15:10,410 out there, optimizing query plans, that sort of thing. But 243 00:15:10,410 --> 00:15:15,390 then I also did consulting with Java, Linux stuff. I always had 244 00:15:15,390 --> 00:15:18,510 been doing that always been interested in the web. I 245 00:15:18,510 --> 00:15:23,400 actually worked for Google for a few years working on Android. So 246 00:15:23,400 --> 00:15:26,490 the operating system there is basically I think, what they 247 00:15:26,490 --> 00:15:27,900 call it now as a full stack, 248 00:15:28,530 --> 00:15:31,380 developer full stack. Plus, I guess, if you add Android onto 249 00:15:31,380 --> 00:15:31,560 it, 250 00:15:31,590 --> 00:15:35,100 yeah, I'm a generalist. I just like kind of like it all still. 251 00:15:35,730 --> 00:15:39,120 And so what I decided is, you know, Google has this IP thing 252 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:42,390 where you can't really work on side projects, without them 253 00:15:42,630 --> 00:15:43,830 being able to claim your IP. 254 00:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,610 Oh, wait a minute. So you do get first of all, you get your 20% 255 00:15:47,610 --> 00:15:50,670 still the thing that they still do that 20 20% of your time, you 256 00:15:50,670 --> 00:15:51,930 can do whatever you want. 257 00:15:52,230 --> 00:15:55,200 Yeah, when I started there, they were still lip servicing that. 258 00:15:56,130 --> 00:15:59,520 I figured that was that gone a long time ago. Yeah, exactly. 259 00:15:59,550 --> 00:16:02,220 I can't bad mouth that though. Because they did allow me I 260 00:16:02,220 --> 00:16:05,010 think for the span about six months, they let me do a project 261 00:16:05,010 --> 00:16:07,950 that was like, totally unrelated. So they did do it. 262 00:16:07,950 --> 00:16:09,810 But I think now it's a little different. I mean, they give you 263 00:16:09,810 --> 00:16:12,660 200% of real time work to do this, 264 00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:16,050 right. And then of course, all your all your bullet base belong 265 00:16:16,050 --> 00:16:19,350 to us. So whatever you develop in that 20%, we own? 266 00:16:19,650 --> 00:16:22,410 Exactly, yeah. And I've always done open source stuff on the 267 00:16:22,410 --> 00:16:25,860 side. And I've always had ideas. And so what I mean, I'm in my 268 00:16:25,860 --> 00:16:30,480 early 40s now, and I've never done the cliche, garage 269 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:33,960 startups, that type of thing. So not my garage. I'm in my, you 270 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:39,840 know, in the house, but I'm basically doing that now. So I 271 00:16:39,840 --> 00:16:43,080 quit Google. And then I kind of, I always knew I do something in 272 00:16:43,080 --> 00:16:46,170 podcasting. I've been, I've been listening to podcasts, and it's 273 00:16:46,170 --> 00:16:48,660 like, literally the very beginning, Adam, I think I've 274 00:16:48,660 --> 00:16:52,830 been following Dave, Dave Winer. And after extensive beginning, I 275 00:16:52,830 --> 00:16:55,350 used to be really into point cast. I don't remember. 276 00:16:55,410 --> 00:16:59,250 Oh, no, do do I remember point cast. I loved how the whole 277 00:16:59,250 --> 00:17:03,150 office network just went down. The minute everyone's point cast 278 00:17:03,150 --> 00:17:07,860 was updating. Yes. Yeah, it was that that was just for the, for 279 00:17:07,860 --> 00:17:11,700 the young for the younger folks out there. Back in the day, we 280 00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,160 actually use this thing called screensavers. I don't think 281 00:17:14,160 --> 00:17:17,310 people use them anymore. We needed a screensaver because 282 00:17:17,310 --> 00:17:20,520 your screen literally would be burned in and ruined. If you 283 00:17:20,520 --> 00:17:24,060 didn't opt for toasters and fish flying around on your screen. 284 00:17:24,600 --> 00:17:27,210 And it was Yeah, and it was actually a thing we would buy 285 00:17:27,210 --> 00:17:31,980 screensavers you go to the store, you buy a box with the 286 00:17:31,980 --> 00:17:35,130 fish I think I think I remember buying the screensaver fish 287 00:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,400 bought the toasters. And the fish in it was all floppy. It 288 00:17:38,400 --> 00:17:42,330 was on floppy disk. Right? And you had to load it all up. And 289 00:17:42,330 --> 00:17:44,970 then out also in Kansas think point cast. And it was like, 290 00:17:45,150 --> 00:17:48,150 there's like a checkbox. And I think a lot of Dave whiners. 291 00:17:48,180 --> 00:17:52,530 Inspiration was also he even called a checkbox news. You 292 00:17:52,530 --> 00:17:55,770 could say, Okay, I want some sports. I want some finance. I 293 00:17:55,770 --> 00:18:01,320 want some food recipes. And it would basically was just a, a 294 00:18:01,320 --> 00:18:05,760 version of a, an early art. We didn't run an RSS as far as I 295 00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:09,150 know. That was too early, probably just download whatever. 296 00:18:09,180 --> 00:18:12,420 How did that work? Does anyone know? What the back end was? 297 00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:16,590 I? I'm curious XML. That's the only thing. I'm sure it was XML. 298 00:18:16,620 --> 00:18:17,070 Right? 299 00:18:17,130 --> 00:18:20,580 Yeah. So it stuck it in. But then, you know, we had, we had 300 00:18:20,580 --> 00:18:24,630 maybe, I don't know, like 40 or 50 people at the office, and we 301 00:18:24,630 --> 00:18:30,090 had a T one line. You know, one megabit per second wishes, you 302 00:18:30,090 --> 00:18:32,040 know, if you have that at home, you you're on the phone with 303 00:18:32,040 --> 00:18:34,620 your cable company, to what's wrong, what's wrong with my 304 00:18:34,620 --> 00:18:37,680 speed here? And so when everyone's point cast would 305 00:18:37,680 --> 00:18:42,960 update invariably at the top of the hour. Everything shut down. 306 00:18:43,770 --> 00:18:46,800 Yeah, it was classic. It was the right idea just kind of too 307 00:18:46,800 --> 00:18:49,980 early from, you know, wiring and piping. Right. Right. Right. I 308 00:18:49,980 --> 00:18:52,530 think definitely. Other idea. And I, you know, I've always 309 00:18:52,530 --> 00:18:55,500 been interested in that kind of like real time breaking sort of 310 00:18:55,500 --> 00:18:58,620 news. And RSS is like that. A lot of good podcasts are like 311 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,290 that, too. You know, they kind of like, try to get on top of, 312 00:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,620 you know, I guess it's the same transport but the same sort of 313 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:07,530 idea. Yeah. I've I've always been interested in the idea that 314 00:19:07,530 --> 00:19:10,020 you can program media is so interesting to me. 315 00:19:10,380 --> 00:19:13,800 Yeah. Well, and in hindsight, kind of thinking back to those 316 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:20,430 days. I think there was web blogs.com which, which would 317 00:19:20,430 --> 00:19:22,590 take XML RPC Requests. 318 00:19:22,860 --> 00:19:24,630 That was whiners thing, right. Yeah, that 319 00:19:24,660 --> 00:19:27,300 that was his thing. And but you know, how interesting is it that 320 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:33,270 here we are 20 years later, and we're using pod ping, to let 321 00:19:33,270 --> 00:19:37,860 people know that the feed is updated. It's the same problem 322 00:19:37,860 --> 00:19:38,580 we're solving. 323 00:19:39,450 --> 00:19:42,600 And the fact that it's still a feed is unbelievable to me. So I 324 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:44,490 think that's kind of cool. Actually, a lot of you know, 325 00:19:44,490 --> 00:19:47,070 back with my kind of enterprise architecture background, and I 326 00:19:47,070 --> 00:19:50,730 think even back with the feed, it's the RSS sort of committee 327 00:19:50,730 --> 00:19:53,820 itself, right. Immediately the astronauts descended and we're 328 00:19:53,820 --> 00:19:56,340 like, yeah, all right, Adam, right. We're gonna do this 329 00:19:56,340 --> 00:19:59,550 right. We're gonna redo Yeah. Oh, my goodness, that was more 330 00:19:59,550 --> 00:20:02,610 so this is Like an existence proof that would you call them 331 00:20:02,610 --> 00:20:05,880 astral astronauts? Would you call them? Right architecture, 332 00:20:05,880 --> 00:20:06,900 astral architecture. 333 00:20:08,070 --> 00:20:10,170 We even had them guy as well. 334 00:20:11,519 --> 00:20:15,539 No, but I mean, if you ever do any work with RSS, you are 335 00:20:15,539 --> 00:20:19,799 taking on a world of pain, right? Dave knows this. Yes. And 336 00:20:19,799 --> 00:20:22,439 I think what the atom guys were, they saw this immediately. And 337 00:20:22,439 --> 00:20:25,109 they said, hey, what if we actually clean this up of it? It 338 00:20:25,109 --> 00:20:28,319 would make developers lives easier. But I think what they 339 00:20:28,319 --> 00:20:31,619 didn't realize is RSS was more about making the publishers life 340 00:20:31,619 --> 00:20:32,039 easier. 341 00:20:32,070 --> 00:20:37,260 Yes. And thank you for saying that. Because even though my, my 342 00:20:37,260 --> 00:20:41,280 brain was fogging over looking at it, I know that I can look at 343 00:20:41,280 --> 00:20:44,640 my RSS feed. And I know I can now stress because we're 344 00:20:44,670 --> 00:20:47,850 starting in late and everything, I know that ultimately, I can 345 00:20:47,850 --> 00:20:51,630 figure it out. And if, if push comes to shove, I can open it in 346 00:20:51,630 --> 00:20:56,400 Notepad, and I can make a change. And that to me is from 347 00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,220 the you're absolutely right. From the publishers perspective. 348 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:01,770 Perspective, that is key. And that that's one of the 349 00:21:01,770 --> 00:21:02,940 successes, I believe, 350 00:21:03,210 --> 00:21:05,460 well, we've been talking about this for a long time is that 351 00:21:05,970 --> 00:21:10,230 when it comes to RSS, the issue, the issues with RSS really come 352 00:21:10,230 --> 00:21:15,150 from it being loose, loosely specified. And those are its 353 00:21:15,150 --> 00:21:19,350 strengths and his weaknesses. In both in both ways. Adam, Adam 354 00:21:19,350 --> 00:21:22,590 was a fan as actually a fantastic idea is fantastic 355 00:21:22,590 --> 00:21:26,760 improvement RSS and you know, if you could go roll time back and 356 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,050 sort of do things differently, you know, Adam, was the better 357 00:21:31,080 --> 00:21:38,040 was the better format, but RSS, they, you know, here, RSS only 358 00:21:38,160 --> 00:21:42,120 only defines, like in an item. It's like description and title. 359 00:21:42,540 --> 00:21:45,450 Or it may even be just his title. I mean, like that, the 360 00:21:45,450 --> 00:21:48,120 looseness of the of that specification are kind of It's 361 00:21:48,120 --> 00:21:51,420 kind of insane. But But if you've been the good thing about 362 00:21:51,420 --> 00:21:53,910 it, though, is if you've been through that whole thing before, 363 00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:59,550 like if you've been through the world of of of a format war like 364 00:21:59,550 --> 00:22:05,400 that, and you've seen which one, one and why at one, then it 365 00:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,760 informs the next time you start to get involved in a project 366 00:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,060 like podcasting 2.0 or something like that. You bring that 367 00:22:12,060 --> 00:22:16,230 experience with you. And you're you're less of a hardliner 368 00:22:16,260 --> 00:22:20,280 about, we have to do it this way we have to, because you realize 369 00:22:20,280 --> 00:22:23,910 that it's not that that's not what makes the format when what 370 00:22:23,910 --> 00:22:25,260 makes the format when is 371 00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:28,440 porn it always porn always makes the format when? 372 00:22:29,550 --> 00:22:33,240 Okay, yes. Okay. That's that's whatever law that is, you know, 373 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:38,820 the wiki? Yes, as Curry's law, there you go. But the really 374 00:22:38,940 --> 00:22:45,000 what makes the format when is a combination of the spec being 375 00:22:45,030 --> 00:22:49,650 being well done. And the politics of what go on with it. 376 00:22:49,830 --> 00:22:54,120 There. You cannot separate those two things, right? Because just 377 00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:58,260 having the best spec rarely is enough. You have to you have to 378 00:22:58,260 --> 00:22:59,400 marry them two together. 379 00:23:00,240 --> 00:23:03,000 That's why podcasting 2.0 is so great is that you guys are kind 380 00:23:03,000 --> 00:23:06,780 of a nice, third party. Right? So even if someone came up with 381 00:23:06,780 --> 00:23:11,040 these tags, I'm you've been over this before, but they have come 382 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:13,800 up with tags in the past, but it's if there's a company behind 383 00:23:13,800 --> 00:23:17,670 it, other people look, look at that work kind of differently. 384 00:23:17,670 --> 00:23:20,970 So it's great to have you guys kind of as a I don't know what 385 00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:23,580 you want to call. It was poverty Alliance? Yeah. 386 00:23:24,390 --> 00:23:27,630 Well, it's not you guys. John. It's all of us. It's exactly. 387 00:23:27,930 --> 00:23:29,520 Our committee. It's not Yeah, we just do this. 388 00:23:29,550 --> 00:23:35,520 But but but yeah, sure, Dave. Matt, the magic is in one thing. 389 00:23:35,520 --> 00:23:38,250 And one thing only. And I've talked to many people about 390 00:23:38,250 --> 00:23:42,150 this, and we've been approached many times, and is that we just 391 00:23:42,180 --> 00:23:45,960 are not taking any money from anybody only money we'll take is 392 00:23:45,960 --> 00:23:49,800 that as donated four out of appreciation for what the 393 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:55,770 project is. That's, that's what makes it work. And it also helps 394 00:23:56,010 --> 00:23:59,820 when Alex gates, his text messages me at, you know, 395 00:23:59,940 --> 00:24:03,810 midnight on a Tuesday, and says something like, man, I've got 396 00:24:03,810 --> 00:24:09,030 this great idea. And he's lays it out. That's, you can only 397 00:24:09,060 --> 00:24:13,200 have that sort of relationship, when there's not big when 398 00:24:13,200 --> 00:24:15,600 there's not money involved. When when people do when there's note 399 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,330 when there's you start getting into all the other stuff, and it 400 00:24:18,330 --> 00:24:20,640 just falls apart. Yeah, you know, it isn't 401 00:24:20,640 --> 00:24:23,190 alignment of interests. I think I think more than anything, it's 402 00:24:23,190 --> 00:24:26,340 kind of a lot of people had the same sort of ideas. Like when 403 00:24:26,340 --> 00:24:29,340 you started this, I think that was about the time that Spotify 404 00:24:29,340 --> 00:24:32,610 was getting off the ground. And I think a lot of people had the 405 00:24:32,610 --> 00:24:36,540 same thought at the same time. And so I know that sure I turned 406 00:24:36,540 --> 00:24:40,770 you guys, I think we kind of line up as far as kind of really 407 00:24:40,770 --> 00:24:44,520 wanting the the way it has been to kind of keep going and I 408 00:24:44,520 --> 00:24:47,070 don't think there's any guarantee that it will. I think 409 00:24:47,070 --> 00:24:50,910 Apple has done a great job of kind of encoding it for now. But 410 00:24:51,420 --> 00:24:55,650 due to kind of the concentration of things, it wouldn't be hard 411 00:24:55,650 --> 00:24:58,050 for some of the bigger players to just specify another way of 412 00:24:58,050 --> 00:25:01,290 doing things. And you know, have some bad meetings and then we've 413 00:25:01,290 --> 00:25:04,410 kind of lost a lot of the stuff that we have today. So my whole 414 00:25:04,410 --> 00:25:08,040 overall goal, if I have any goal is to just kind of maintain the 415 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,880 status quo of like, lots of apps, lots of hosts kind of a 416 00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:15,180 dynamic, like system with a lot of players. 417 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:18,930 Do you want? I was just gonna ask one more thing. Do you have 418 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,300 a day job currently or just coast? Are you just coasting on 419 00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:22,260 that Google stock? 420 00:25:23,670 --> 00:25:25,920 Well, it's it's, it's been referred to 421 00:25:26,940 --> 00:25:28,590 the coast has been downhill. Yes. 422 00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:33,300 You know, it's about poverty, right? i What's the euphemism 423 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,220 I'm investing in the future? Oh, that's cool. I love that you 424 00:25:38,220 --> 00:25:41,460 guys talk about your bills I spend about, I think about 500 425 00:25:41,460 --> 00:25:43,920 bucks a month right now on all the backend. And I've been 426 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,930 seeing all this data come through because I, you know, I 427 00:25:45,930 --> 00:25:49,680 look at all every single episode that comes out. And I saw a lot 428 00:25:49,680 --> 00:25:52,290 of, you know, kind of cool stats, and I'm interested in 429 00:25:52,290 --> 00:25:54,660 that sort of thing myself. But then I started publishing that, 430 00:25:54,840 --> 00:25:57,000 as well. So that's kind of another thing I'm kind of doing 431 00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:59,550 on the side is, you know, someone will throw out like, I 432 00:25:59,550 --> 00:26:02,820 wonder how many, how many episodes use chapters, or how 433 00:26:02,820 --> 00:26:05,340 pervasive chapters are? I'm like, I could actually tell you. 434 00:26:06,090 --> 00:26:09,750 Yeah, so that's been kind of fun as well. So just to see it's 435 00:26:09,750 --> 00:26:13,800 kind of nice. Being able to kind of work in a space where like, 436 00:26:13,800 --> 00:26:16,650 things are still evolving. And there's still lots of, I think, 437 00:26:16,650 --> 00:26:20,460 a lot of low hanging fruit. I think strategically, I'm 438 00:26:20,460 --> 00:26:23,820 focusing on an app like a client app. I think that's like the 439 00:26:23,820 --> 00:26:25,920 biggest hole. I think there's a lot of great hosts out there. So 440 00:26:25,920 --> 00:26:29,040 I think I have some ideas in the hosting space as well. But I 441 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:33,120 think there's tons of great, like, all levels enterprise free 442 00:26:33,120 --> 00:26:36,180 and everywhere in between. It's a flip case. Yeah, yeah, 443 00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:39,300 exactly. So I think I'm kind of okay with where that is. But on 444 00:26:39,300 --> 00:26:43,500 the app side, I don't know if you know, but Lipson has a as a 445 00:26:43,500 --> 00:26:46,530 podcast. And every month they go through and kind of list out 446 00:26:47,010 --> 00:26:50,460 what they see for the downloads wise from all the podcasts are 447 00:26:50,460 --> 00:26:53,820 on their system. And they always, you know, they've gone 448 00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,550 back many years now. And I've been looking at that. And they 449 00:26:56,550 --> 00:26:59,790 used to break out like, okay, so Apple podcasts, as we're seeing 450 00:26:59,790 --> 00:27:03,030 this many downloads from Apple podcasts. Spotify is obviously, 451 00:27:03,780 --> 00:27:06,270 coming up, Google is coming up, but the independent like, so 452 00:27:06,270 --> 00:27:09,960 everything other than Google and Apple, that share has been going 453 00:27:09,960 --> 00:27:13,350 down consistently. And so that's what worries me, you know, 454 00:27:13,350 --> 00:27:16,410 overcast is doing a great job out there. But it's iOS only. 455 00:27:16,590 --> 00:27:20,370 But from from a philosophical standpoint, why? Why does that 456 00:27:20,370 --> 00:27:22,020 overall market share matter? 457 00:27:22,860 --> 00:27:27,000 Because of the what? Well, for one I see is this kind of like a 458 00:27:27,030 --> 00:27:31,050 strategic thing. Again, if let's say only two apps are the 459 00:27:31,170 --> 00:27:35,160 primary portal into podcasting, it makes it a lot easier for 460 00:27:35,160 --> 00:27:37,260 them to just say, Okay, we're going to do another thing now. 461 00:27:37,290 --> 00:27:41,310 Because then no matter what Apple does, I think anyway, I'm 462 00:27:41,310 --> 00:27:43,740 the host would jump to do it. So if they said, Tomorrow, we're 463 00:27:43,740 --> 00:27:47,940 going to do Jason feed, or something crazy like that. They 464 00:27:47,940 --> 00:27:49,800 would, they would fall over themselves, the host to 465 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,280 implement it right away. So we're kind of it's limited by 466 00:27:53,280 --> 00:27:55,830 the the clients to some extent, as far as where the innovation 467 00:27:55,830 --> 00:27:56,130 happens, 468 00:27:56,160 --> 00:27:59,040 here's, here's my view on that, because I think we get way too 469 00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,690 hung up on leaderboards and percentages, and all of this. 470 00:28:04,230 --> 00:28:10,080 The only way podcasting grows is through communities that are 471 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:16,470 promoting whatever it is that is going to rise to the top. And 472 00:28:16,470 --> 00:28:22,260 sometimes it's a technological thing that boosts podcasting. 473 00:28:22,770 --> 00:28:29,430 Often, its content. So podcasting was growing, maybe 474 00:28:29,430 --> 00:28:34,080 five to 10%, a year bubbling under, it got pushed way down 475 00:28:34,080 --> 00:28:37,290 once YouTube and Facebook and Twitter, and that was it was all 476 00:28:37,290 --> 00:28:41,190 about social media. So there was no, there was really no ink at 477 00:28:41,190 --> 00:28:45,690 all, for podcasting, although it was growing, but no mainstream 478 00:28:45,690 --> 00:28:53,430 attention until cereal hit. And so my point being that you, you 479 00:28:53,430 --> 00:28:57,930 can't market your way to the to the top of the of the apps, you 480 00:28:57,930 --> 00:29:02,250 know, with, I don't think we're ever going to see apps as big as 481 00:29:02,250 --> 00:29:06,330 Apple and Spotify, it will even out but it's it's all going to 482 00:29:06,330 --> 00:29:10,890 happen in small pockets. The small pockets happen and grow 483 00:29:10,890 --> 00:29:16,590 because the podcasters they want people to use that app, you 484 00:29:16,590 --> 00:29:21,900 know, and that reason, some of them have it now. A lot of 485 00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:25,170 Bitcoiners a lot of pioneers, you know, early or early 486 00:29:25,170 --> 00:29:30,150 adopters were in a very, very early stage. Most of the apps 487 00:29:30,450 --> 00:29:34,800 are just getting to where they're acceptable for people to 488 00:29:34,800 --> 00:29:38,250 make a change or try something out. So I think we're just we're 489 00:29:38,250 --> 00:29:43,260 just, we're a ways off. But this this, these these percentages, 490 00:29:43,260 --> 00:29:48,000 it's like it's demoralizing. It doesn't matter. We I mean, look 491 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,460 at the features that some hosting companies are 492 00:29:50,460 --> 00:29:52,830 implementing yet. It's not overnight and they're not all 493 00:29:52,830 --> 00:29:56,040 falling over themselves, but a number of important ones are 494 00:29:56,070 --> 00:29:59,970 doing it and supporting it. And because we're not falling over 495 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,250 over ourselves because Apple said we're going to do 496 00:30:02,250 --> 00:30:04,230 something. We're doing it right. 497 00:30:04,650 --> 00:30:09,330 But, you know, I think the YouTube, the YouTube talk that's 498 00:30:09,330 --> 00:30:13,620 been going on for the last couple of weeks is kind of a, it 499 00:30:13,620 --> 00:30:19,140 needs to be talked about because I don't trust those numbers. 500 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:23,700 Well, let me let me say, let me put it this way. If YouTube as a 501 00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,400 podcast platform, you know, now they're, they're gonna do like 502 00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:28,530 the keynote, somebody from YouTube's gonna do like the 503 00:30:28,530 --> 00:30:31,500 keynote at Podcast Movement, and they're, they're making their, 504 00:30:31,680 --> 00:30:36,180 their play into podcasting. And then I hear you keep hearing 505 00:30:36,180 --> 00:30:39,390 these big numbers, like 40% of people listen to podcasts on 506 00:30:39,390 --> 00:30:41,970 YouTube for medicine research and all this cuz it's just kind 507 00:30:41,970 --> 00:30:47,670 of all in the in the podcast, industry news. And I've got real 508 00:30:47,670 --> 00:30:52,650 problems with those numbers and how to interpret that, because, 509 00:30:53,190 --> 00:30:58,170 well, I guess number one is, if that's true, if it's true that 510 00:30:58,170 --> 00:31:03,570 you that 40% of people listen to podcasts on YouTube, then why is 511 00:31:03,570 --> 00:31:06,150 YouTube making this big play of getting into podcasting? That 512 00:31:06,150 --> 00:31:09,390 sounds like they already are? Why are they going to pay? Pay 513 00:31:09,390 --> 00:31:12,030 create, oh, I can answer that $50,000, 514 00:31:12,060 --> 00:31:14,730 I can give you the answer and give you the answer no, that no, 515 00:31:14,730 --> 00:31:17,580 they're saying something different. To saying we want you 516 00:31:17,580 --> 00:31:22,560 to make video versions of your podcast is very different. And 517 00:31:22,590 --> 00:31:25,170 so they're not. They're not necessarily asking for a whole 518 00:31:25,170 --> 00:31:28,860 bunch of people with mics and headsets and studios. They're 519 00:31:28,860 --> 00:31:32,160 looking for more, they're trying to build a library of hits. 520 00:31:32,160 --> 00:31:35,130 That's what all these people do. That's what Spotify is doing is 521 00:31:35,130 --> 00:31:38,220 what Google is doing. Amazon will do their own version. 522 00:31:38,460 --> 00:31:41,370 Apple's the only one that just wants people to use their 523 00:31:41,370 --> 00:31:44,040 subscription service. I don't think they care much about 524 00:31:44,250 --> 00:31:47,820 anything else. But these people this is all content plays, has 525 00:31:47,820 --> 00:31:50,850 nothing to do with podcasts. I couldn't give a shit about what 526 00:31:50,850 --> 00:31:51,300 we're doing. 527 00:31:51,960 --> 00:31:55,890 No, I agree with that. I guess my problem is with the numbers 528 00:31:55,890 --> 00:31:58,350 and what that means to the industry, because these numbers 529 00:31:58,350 --> 00:31:59,190 are just reports. 530 00:31:59,220 --> 00:32:02,280 Yeah, but but they're just reported meaningless. I think my 531 00:32:02,280 --> 00:32:04,920 point is, it's meaningless. It doesn't really matter, does it? 532 00:32:05,280 --> 00:32:05,700 Well, if 533 00:32:05,700 --> 00:32:08,550 you have 40, here's, here's the way like, here's the way James 534 00:32:08,550 --> 00:32:14,790 explained, explains it. He says, Okay, if if, if the survey if 535 00:32:14,790 --> 00:32:18,210 you ask somebody where they listen to podcasts, and they 536 00:32:18,210 --> 00:32:22,950 tell you YouTube, well, then it doesn't matter, that YouTube is 537 00:32:22,950 --> 00:32:26,640 not really what we consider a podcast when it matters, that 538 00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:29,670 they think that it is a podcast, so therefore, it's a podcast. 539 00:32:30,240 --> 00:32:33,750 Now, I don't want I'm not interested in the debate about 540 00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:39,570 what is a podcast. But what I know is that those numbers are 541 00:32:39,570 --> 00:32:46,440 being reported to the podcast industry, as podcasts. And it's 542 00:32:46,440 --> 00:32:50,790 like, it's it's like taking, it's like asking somebody if 543 00:32:50,790 --> 00:32:55,350 they go if they if they watch movies, but not distinguishing 544 00:32:55,350 --> 00:33:01,650 between the theater, and and television. You if you're taking 545 00:33:01,650 --> 00:33:04,620 these numbers and saying okay, 30% of you're absolutely 546 00:33:04,620 --> 00:33:08,130 right, you're absolutely right. It is almost apples to oranges. 547 00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,150 It misinforms the podcast industry about what actually 548 00:33:12,150 --> 00:33:17,400 happens. Like France, for instance, you have if somebody 549 00:33:17,400 --> 00:33:21,120 thinks PewDiePie is a podcast, and they say, Oh yeah, I listen 550 00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:23,820 to I listen to podcasts on YouTube, yes. Where I listened 551 00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:26,460 in in there. And the whole time in their mind. They're thinking 552 00:33:26,460 --> 00:33:29,970 that this video, that this video channel, they watch all the time 553 00:33:30,330 --> 00:33:34,320 is a quote unquote, podcast, that's fine for that. But then 554 00:33:34,320 --> 00:33:38,640 if you take that information and go tell the podcast industry, in 555 00:33:38,640 --> 00:33:41,940 the traditional podcast industry, that Look here, 40% of 556 00:33:41,940 --> 00:33:45,420 people listen to podcasts on YouTube. And they're like, uh, 557 00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:48,450 oh, I don't know what to do about that. Well, yeah, you 558 00:33:48,450 --> 00:33:49,950 don't know what to do about it, because it's not actually 559 00:33:49,950 --> 00:33:52,980 accurate. with it. Okay, that's my issue. Yeah. 560 00:33:53,190 --> 00:33:57,720 Just so you know, since day one on podcasting, the argument of 561 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:01,110 where people listen, and what is then considered a podcast has 562 00:34:01,110 --> 00:34:05,220 been raging. And to this day, there are people that say, Dude, 563 00:34:05,430 --> 00:34:09,660 I was putting my mic my radio shows on the internet. 1983 I 564 00:34:09,660 --> 00:34:13,620 was the first podcaster. Yeah. Yeah, that argument is boring. 565 00:34:13,860 --> 00:34:16,440 What is integral was interesting to me about all the numbers that 566 00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:19,230 I've heard reported and I and as you know, I really don't put 567 00:34:19,230 --> 00:34:22,890 much I don't care. It's We're building something. We've got 568 00:34:23,190 --> 00:34:28,500 5000 podcasts that are using it, probably 1000 of those are 569 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,070 really using it actively and are starting to hone their pitch for 570 00:34:32,100 --> 00:34:35,250 value for value. But more importantly, the authoring tools 571 00:34:35,250 --> 00:34:38,010 are starting to come online slow, but they're coming online 572 00:34:38,010 --> 00:34:41,520 and we've let own the All we've done is lead by example. That 573 00:34:41,520 --> 00:34:44,250 number that I found most interesting that something we 574 00:34:44,250 --> 00:34:51,120 can affect is women. A large percentage of women listen to a 575 00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:56,490 podcast on the podcast website. I've seen this myself. I've seen 576 00:34:56,490 --> 00:35:01,050 this myself. That's a humongous option. tunity for embedded 577 00:35:01,050 --> 00:35:05,760 players, that's an option an embedded player. That is, I 578 00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:08,580 mean, we everyone, all of our apps, I think almost all of them 579 00:35:08,580 --> 00:35:12,900 have at least some web version. And we have some cool sharing 580 00:35:14,520 --> 00:35:20,130 widgets. But think about players and what we can do with the with 581 00:35:20,130 --> 00:35:25,080 the namespace tags, etc, there to get people to use an app. But 582 00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:29,250 even then, I mean, it's, is it invalid to have someone use the 583 00:35:29,250 --> 00:35:32,700 curio caster embedded player with a wallet with everything 584 00:35:32,700 --> 00:35:37,230 there? Versus on the curio? caster.com? PWA? 585 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:39,240 No, no, no, 586 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:42,180 I think the way I think about it is that YouTube is kind of a 587 00:35:42,180 --> 00:35:46,380 good Northstar. As far as user experience, I think in the 588 00:35:46,380 --> 00:35:50,340 future, let's say video was not that expensive. Back in the day, 589 00:35:50,430 --> 00:35:54,000 there probably would be five or six youtubes. But they kind of 590 00:35:54,000 --> 00:35:57,630 you know, Google took a massive hit their bandwidth bill is just 591 00:35:57,630 --> 00:36:02,070 insane. But now we're getting to the point where you could see 592 00:36:02,070 --> 00:36:05,250 almost building a YouTube on a lot of the newer edge 593 00:36:05,250 --> 00:36:08,730 technologies that are out there. There's, there's, I think 594 00:36:08,730 --> 00:36:10,500 there's gonna be some interesting startups that kind 595 00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,110 of blend what we're doing with podcasting, and then also 596 00:36:13,110 --> 00:36:14,520 bringing that to video in the future. 597 00:36:15,510 --> 00:36:18,330 Alex is doing it by himself. Yeah, yeah. 598 00:36:18,539 --> 00:36:21,269 But I think you'll see kind of larger companies start to do 599 00:36:21,269 --> 00:36:23,759 this. And then the, but they 600 00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:27,090 wait, wait, wait, I'm sorry to interrupt. You said you see 601 00:36:27,090 --> 00:36:29,850 larger companies starting to do this, just explain what this is. 602 00:36:29,850 --> 00:36:30,270 Again, 603 00:36:30,750 --> 00:36:35,310 I think building, for example, the, the podcast hosts don't 604 00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:39,090 have apps right now. So if they come out with a new feature, 605 00:36:39,120 --> 00:36:41,940 they're kind of reliant on the app side to kind of build 606 00:36:41,940 --> 00:36:46,500 everything to, to expose that. But you can imagine that they 607 00:36:46,500 --> 00:36:50,310 would build apps that like can do audio, and then potentially 608 00:36:50,310 --> 00:36:52,560 video as well for their customers, just because they 609 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,250 know that they can make a great experience for their for their 610 00:36:56,250 --> 00:36:59,790 customers. Yeah, well, so I could, I could see like, and 611 00:36:59,790 --> 00:37:01,980 again, I think just the experience is what we should 612 00:37:01,980 --> 00:37:06,630 look at YouTube for inspiration from and honestly over the what 613 00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:09,720 was it over? I think New Years, I think podcast was like, you 614 00:37:09,720 --> 00:37:14,490 know why? One of one of these new podcast features would be 615 00:37:14,490 --> 00:37:18,690 really compelling for, you know, an average podcast listener to 616 00:37:18,690 --> 00:37:21,390 actually switch apps like they would actually cause them to 617 00:37:21,390 --> 00:37:22,080 switch. Here's 618 00:37:22,079 --> 00:37:25,349 a strike. Here's, here's a striking thought. Because it 619 00:37:25,349 --> 00:37:31,109 just struck me. Should we maybe we should consider redefining 620 00:37:31,589 --> 00:37:35,309 what we're building? Should it only be apps that are an app 621 00:37:35,309 --> 00:37:38,729 stores? Should it be? Should they always look the way they 622 00:37:38,729 --> 00:37:41,669 look? I don't think so I don't think so either. I mean, 623 00:37:41,939 --> 00:37:47,099 creatively, the features have been driven by the app 624 00:37:47,099 --> 00:37:51,899 developers 100%. That's the and of course, by the by creators 625 00:37:51,899 --> 00:37:56,429 who are using those elements and asking their tool, suppliers, 626 00:37:56,429 --> 00:37:59,639 which is the hosting companies to implement that, so they can 627 00:37:59,639 --> 00:38:02,729 use it, that that's kind of that's how the demand works, and 628 00:38:02,729 --> 00:38:05,879 then how that's how stuff gets in there. There's not a lot of 629 00:38:06,359 --> 00:38:09,629 push coming from the hosting companies in that regard. 630 00:38:11,100 --> 00:38:13,410 But we'll see a blend though, because you're gonna see 631 00:38:13,410 --> 00:38:16,440 services that kind of use a lot of the data that were like 632 00:38:16,440 --> 00:38:19,320 transcripts is a perfect example. That's sort of 633 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:22,020 interesting, from just a straight kind of user point of 634 00:38:22,020 --> 00:38:25,560 view, it'll be useful to some people. But that is a wealth of 635 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,230 information that services are going to be able to create, like 636 00:38:28,260 --> 00:38:32,190 amazing search experiences for, for example. So I think you're 637 00:38:32,190 --> 00:38:36,060 gonna see a lot of just web services kind of read these days 638 00:38:36,180 --> 00:38:37,020 to state as well, 639 00:38:37,050 --> 00:38:41,670 we're in agreement, what I'm saying is, we need the creative, 640 00:38:41,700 --> 00:38:45,000 we need to get our heads out of our asses as to what a podcast 641 00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:49,410 app is, and what people really want to work in on it. If women 642 00:38:49,440 --> 00:38:54,690 if women, if for women predominantly are using a player 643 00:38:54,690 --> 00:38:58,050 on a web page, which is pretty sad, if they use and I know 644 00:38:58,050 --> 00:39:01,200 they're using it on on some of my shows, it's just a simple, 645 00:39:01,230 --> 00:39:05,520 you know, mp3 players or nothing. Why wouldn't we spend 646 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:08,610 the same benefits whether it's an app or not probably more, 647 00:39:08,610 --> 00:39:11,730 even to some degree, we can build into those web pages, and 648 00:39:11,730 --> 00:39:15,300 we should be we should be going where people want to be and I 649 00:39:15,300 --> 00:39:19,110 think we're a little too hung up on religion, and that, you know, 650 00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:26,010 oh, Apple, okay. You know, it's like It's nonsensical numbers. I 651 00:39:26,010 --> 00:39:26,490 don't have a 652 00:39:26,520 --> 00:39:29,280 problem with podcast as a term either. I think that's fine to 653 00:39:29,280 --> 00:39:31,740 kind of, even though it's kind of a horrible name. It's kind of 654 00:39:31,740 --> 00:39:34,890 like it right now. everyone kind of knows it is it's the non 655 00:39:34,890 --> 00:39:38,940 mainstream sort of media look, delivery system. And so I think 656 00:39:38,940 --> 00:39:42,000 people no matter what the apps end up looking like, and I think 657 00:39:42,000 --> 00:39:44,820 like you said, I agree there's going to be 1000s of different 658 00:39:44,820 --> 00:39:47,760 types of apps. I think the notion of podcasts as the 659 00:39:47,760 --> 00:39:49,830 overall term for this is still useful. 660 00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:55,170 Yeah, I think what matters is that the the delay the source of 661 00:39:55,170 --> 00:39:58,770 the delivery, and the end point where it's delivered to maintain 662 00:39:58,770 --> 00:40:02,850 decentralization What What now how you know how that looks, 663 00:40:03,120 --> 00:40:05,610 whether or not you're serving, serving it out of object 664 00:40:05,610 --> 00:40:11,220 storage, or off servers, or off IPFS on the back end, or whether 665 00:40:11,220 --> 00:40:14,280 or not you're consuming it with a mobile app, or a website or a 666 00:40:14,280 --> 00:40:18,600 PWA, or an embedded player on the on the edge. I don't think 667 00:40:18,630 --> 00:40:21,150 either one of those things really matter as long as they 668 00:40:21,150 --> 00:40:25,110 stay that way, as long as they stay decentralized. But that's 669 00:40:25,110 --> 00:40:28,140 my problem with that's my problem with with the whole 670 00:40:28,140 --> 00:40:33,330 YouTube conversation, like Chris Fisher on brought a clip of 671 00:40:33,330 --> 00:40:36,540 Chris Fisher, talking about this very thing on the latest episode 672 00:40:36,540 --> 00:40:41,970 of coder radio. And he's talking about his about what he sees 673 00:40:41,970 --> 00:40:44,640 going on in the industry. If you want to play that clip, 674 00:40:45,150 --> 00:40:47,760 that's I've been feeling the same way on the in the podcast 675 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:51,270 space, today, it came out that YouTube is offering like 676 00:40:51,270 --> 00:40:56,460 $50,000, to certain podcasters to take their audio only podcast 677 00:40:56,460 --> 00:40:59,970 and make it a video podcast. And then you know, start using their 678 00:40:59,970 --> 00:41:03,780 ads and stuff like that. And you know, you watch what Spotify is 679 00:41:03,780 --> 00:41:07,680 doing. You watch what Apple is doing. You see what Lipson 680 00:41:07,680 --> 00:41:11,100 trying to do with suppressing ad prices. And YouTube is trying to 681 00:41:11,100 --> 00:41:14,520 do by taking over podcasting and I start thinking to myself, How 682 00:41:14,520 --> 00:41:16,560 the hell am I gonna be able to stay independent for the next 683 00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:20,610 five years, it's getting really, really centralized out there. 684 00:41:20,940 --> 00:41:24,120 For some, like the rumors as much as $300,000, the offers, 685 00:41:24,480 --> 00:41:28,320 which I still find ridiculous $50,000 Couldn't even convert a 686 00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:31,050 single one of our podcast videos, think about it. That 687 00:41:31,050 --> 00:41:33,900 doesn't even pay for a year of a video editor, not to mention 688 00:41:33,900 --> 00:41:38,310 camera equipment, lighting, sets, editing equipment, I mean, 689 00:41:38,310 --> 00:41:41,400 give me a break. $50,000 is spent in one weekend buying the 690 00:41:41,400 --> 00:41:45,210 gear? Well, that makes no sense. Yeah, but they're trying to 691 00:41:45,210 --> 00:41:48,870 incentivize a centralization of podcasters. Because once you go 692 00:41:48,870 --> 00:41:51,990 into the YouTube platform, you create content for the 693 00:41:51,990 --> 00:41:56,010 algorithm. And you you have to create content that's also 694 00:41:56,010 --> 00:42:00,750 appealing to the ad bot because it's it's all an auction system 695 00:42:00,900 --> 00:42:05,490 behind the scenes. And the auction system has preferences, 696 00:42:05,640 --> 00:42:09,180 it looks for brands save content, and brand save content 697 00:42:09,570 --> 00:42:12,570 is not only the type of things that you cover, but it's the 698 00:42:12,570 --> 00:42:15,660 genre of you that you cover as well. I look at independent 699 00:42:15,660 --> 00:42:19,470 podcast operations. And I just think, I don't even know if most 700 00:42:19,470 --> 00:42:21,570 of them are going to make it the next couple of years. I think 701 00:42:21,570 --> 00:42:23,790 it's really, it's really bleak out there. 702 00:42:24,240 --> 00:42:28,800 Alright, I'm gonna take this in reverse order. First of all, the 703 00:42:28,800 --> 00:42:32,130 only reason this is a news is because there's money involved. 704 00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,680 Whenever there's money, and there's free money, people 705 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:37,860 always get all money, money, money. And there's always all 706 00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:40,920 kinds of thinking that goes along, and there's feelings and 707 00:42:40,920 --> 00:42:45,300 shit that happens. Whereas 99% of all podcasters probably will 708 00:42:45,300 --> 00:42:51,270 never make or should make any money. The bigger travesty here 709 00:42:51,330 --> 00:42:56,580 is not people using YouTube or whatever to listen to podcast, 710 00:42:56,670 --> 00:43:01,200 the travesty is that creators put it there. If you want to 711 00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:05,850 create a community that is profitable, both on a creative 712 00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:10,080 and business level, you need to control that community. That's 713 00:43:10,080 --> 00:43:14,970 the bottom line. I don't care if if you're using if you're 714 00:43:14,970 --> 00:43:20,490 streaming live with with any tube and using curio caster, you 715 00:43:20,490 --> 00:43:23,430 still need to have control over your community, which is what 716 00:43:23,430 --> 00:43:27,090 we're doing and what we're building. People are realizing, 717 00:43:27,420 --> 00:43:30,630 gee, you know, it's not such a great deal, there will always be 718 00:43:30,690 --> 00:43:33,660 a whole bunch of fools who go the same who go to the major 719 00:43:33,660 --> 00:43:38,340 labels, that's not going to end anytime soon. The people always 720 00:43:38,340 --> 00:43:41,160 follow the money and they think that where the money is, is 721 00:43:41,160 --> 00:43:43,860 where the audience is, but you have no connection when you have 722 00:43:43,860 --> 00:43:47,850 to go to all these different places. You really don't own 723 00:43:47,850 --> 00:43:50,730 your audience, you and when by own I mean you don't have them 724 00:43:51,090 --> 00:43:56,100 in a place like no agenda has, that we've never done any any 725 00:43:56,100 --> 00:43:59,640 kind of marketing or any or been put on other we've In fact, we 726 00:43:59,640 --> 00:44:03,450 refuse to be put on Spotify. But we did put that up on Mastodon 727 00:44:03,450 --> 00:44:03,960 server. 728 00:44:05,099 --> 00:44:08,339 What What concerns me about about YouTube getting into this, 729 00:44:08,339 --> 00:44:11,759 and I don't disagree with what you're what you're saying. I 730 00:44:11,759 --> 00:44:17,369 guess from a technology standpoint, I think that, John, 731 00:44:17,759 --> 00:44:20,189 you know, what you were saying earlier is that if a whole bunch 732 00:44:20,189 --> 00:44:23,519 of cabal of huge tech got together and wanted to reformat 733 00:44:23,519 --> 00:44:27,599 the system, they they could probably do it and this is this 734 00:44:27,599 --> 00:44:31,439 is my concern is the decentralization if it gets 735 00:44:31,439 --> 00:44:35,639 under attack from a big player like YouTube, and it comes in 736 00:44:35,639 --> 00:44:38,909 from the sort of comes in through the back door where Oh, 737 00:44:39,089 --> 00:44:43,349 YouTube is getting into podcasting. Well, yeah, but then 738 00:44:43,379 --> 00:44:46,559 what is the net result of that is the net result of that it is 739 00:44:46,559 --> 00:44:51,059 going to be to destroy everybody else's business. And in take 740 00:44:51,059 --> 00:44:52,229 away this precious 741 00:44:52,260 --> 00:44:55,860 but how I don't I don't understand how I fail to see how 742 00:44:56,220 --> 00:44:59,190 seems like there's a lot of fear, YouTube's going to come in 743 00:44:59,190 --> 00:45:01,860 and they're going to stomp Everybody, that's a big 744 00:45:01,860 --> 00:45:06,570 presumption. I, I really, I'm not so sure that's true. 745 00:45:06,630 --> 00:45:09,810 And also having done a tour of duty in one of these places as 746 00:45:09,810 --> 00:45:10,140 well. 747 00:45:11,039 --> 00:45:13,979 As Oh, like anybody else. Exactly. And 748 00:45:14,070 --> 00:45:16,980 the one thing that actually really that they'll spend their 749 00:45:16,980 --> 00:45:20,610 time in the shower thinking about and, you know, neglect 750 00:45:20,610 --> 00:45:24,150 their revenue per user. No, it's competition actually. 751 00:45:25,260 --> 00:45:29,070 Interesting. They could not especially tech people, I think 752 00:45:29,130 --> 00:45:31,530 they really cannot stand another tech company coming out with 753 00:45:31,530 --> 00:45:33,510 another product that they're like, Oh, we could have built 754 00:45:33,510 --> 00:45:36,810 this. And they will copy it, they'll spend all of their I 755 00:45:36,810 --> 00:45:40,410 mean, look at what Google did with Google Plus. So I think 756 00:45:40,440 --> 00:45:43,530 what we're doing is exactly correct. And that is kind of 757 00:45:43,530 --> 00:45:47,880 like showing away, hey, this is a, this is an innovative feature 758 00:45:47,880 --> 00:45:50,580 that all of these podcast apps are going to find useful. No 759 00:45:50,580 --> 00:45:54,360 matter if it's a traditional client app or service, I think 760 00:45:54,360 --> 00:45:57,030 you guys have done a really good job of kind of keeping the 761 00:45:57,420 --> 00:46:00,030 features at an abstract level. So it's like, here's how to 762 00:46:00,030 --> 00:46:02,370 represent value, here's how to represent, you know, we're 763 00:46:02,370 --> 00:46:05,070 talking about comments. And all these things are kind of like 764 00:46:05,070 --> 00:46:07,320 they're going to be structured data that's broadly applicable 765 00:46:07,320 --> 00:46:09,270 to any of these apps. And again, 766 00:46:09,360 --> 00:46:13,830 and it creates an ecosystem longer term of tool providers. 767 00:46:13,830 --> 00:46:17,580 And you know, I use Well, I don't I use hyper captcha, I use 768 00:46:17,580 --> 00:46:21,150 that with Dred Scott. And he does the chapters and, and he 769 00:46:21,150 --> 00:46:28,050 gets 10% of some 5% of the of the of every single show I'm 770 00:46:28,050 --> 00:46:32,280 involved in, through the through the value blog split. And we 771 00:46:32,280 --> 00:46:37,110 need lots more of these types of, of tools and services to 772 00:46:37,110 --> 00:46:40,950 come online. And some of those will eventually be folded into, 773 00:46:41,190 --> 00:46:44,820 or purchased by hosting companies. I mean, this is, this 774 00:46:44,820 --> 00:46:50,850 is not something that you can measure, report to report, you 775 00:46:50,850 --> 00:46:55,470 know, and even to be honest, also, these even though I hear 776 00:46:55,470 --> 00:46:58,440 we come out smelling really good. I don't like report cards. 777 00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:01,800 I don't you know, I just I just want to see what people are 778 00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,640 actually doing and using? And if, if, why are they using 779 00:47:05,670 --> 00:47:11,550 YouTube, I'll tell you, here's what I heard the most. It's on 780 00:47:11,550 --> 00:47:17,100 my YouTube app faster than it's on my podcast app. And they're 781 00:47:17,100 --> 00:47:19,710 not watching. They're just using the app so they can keep it 782 00:47:19,710 --> 00:47:22,380 closed and listen to it. It's the same as hitting play on a 783 00:47:22,380 --> 00:47:26,850 web page. If people continue to upload to web pages like 784 00:47:26,910 --> 00:47:30,420 YouTube, then people are going to listen to their podcast over 785 00:47:30,420 --> 00:47:34,200 on YouTube. If you're not missing out, you know, yeah, 786 00:47:34,200 --> 00:47:37,110 maybe some programmatic algo thing that you're but did 787 00:47:37,110 --> 00:47:40,380 podcast discovery, it's not how podcasts are discovered is word 788 00:47:40,380 --> 00:47:44,490 of mouth. It's that's how podcasts grow, not through any 789 00:47:44,490 --> 00:47:47,550 other mechanism. It's just a different beast. But if people 790 00:47:47,550 --> 00:47:50,070 want to listen to it on a web page, let's make a great 791 00:47:50,070 --> 00:47:54,180 experience. Doesn't matter if it's on a web page or or in an 792 00:47:54,180 --> 00:47:55,380 app, it's the same thing. 793 00:47:55,770 --> 00:48:01,320 Well, that's probably the other thing that podcasting as a as a 794 00:48:01,320 --> 00:48:05,310 technology. And as a platform has that other platforms do not, 795 00:48:05,310 --> 00:48:09,930 which is the pace of innovation and how fast we can change 796 00:48:09,930 --> 00:48:15,330 things. Because like I had a fantastic call, did a zoom call 797 00:48:15,330 --> 00:48:19,290 with some guys out of Australia. This past week, I think it was 798 00:48:19,290 --> 00:48:24,510 like maybe Wednesday or Tuesday. And it's an app that they've 799 00:48:24,510 --> 00:48:27,210 it's on the app stores on the iOS App Store is called visie 800 00:48:27,240 --> 00:48:30,030 vs. Easy, why? They just released it all. And they're 801 00:48:30,060 --> 00:48:33,090 waiting for it to be released on Android. And it's sort of this, 802 00:48:33,300 --> 00:48:38,580 this interesting mix this interesting hybrid thing where 803 00:48:38,970 --> 00:48:42,180 they've got a they've got a back end platform web based platform 804 00:48:42,360 --> 00:48:45,420 where you can go like claim your podcast public. And when you 805 00:48:45,450 --> 00:48:48,840 publish your episode, you can then go through an ad these 806 00:48:48,840 --> 00:48:52,830 chapter markers with affiliate links and all bunch of stuff is 807 00:48:52,830 --> 00:48:55,680 basically like these hypercharged chapter. Thanks 808 00:48:55,680 --> 00:48:58,770 very similar to what I think Benjamin Bellamy was wanting 809 00:48:58,770 --> 00:49:01,530 with podcast recommendations tag to be able to sort of like 810 00:49:01,530 --> 00:49:06,000 deliver all kinds of interesting in points to the listeners 811 00:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,180 through chapters. And then they've gotten in, they've got 812 00:49:09,180 --> 00:49:12,120 an app that goes with it to show their sort of enriched chapter 813 00:49:12,120 --> 00:49:16,020 content. And, you know, they said, Well, you know, one of 814 00:49:16,020 --> 00:49:18,420 their goals is to do integrations with this host 815 00:49:18,420 --> 00:49:23,160 hosting companies in the future and be able to, to take chapters 816 00:49:23,190 --> 00:49:26,970 in suck them in and then add this, this, this content to it. 817 00:49:27,420 --> 00:49:32,430 So I mean, like things like that are coming on board. And that's 818 00:49:32,430 --> 00:49:35,490 something like you can't write plugins for YouTube. You can't 819 00:49:35,490 --> 00:49:39,960 extend these arguments at all. And the ability to take to take 820 00:49:39,990 --> 00:49:44,040 an idea and build on it and make it better. Is is maybe the 821 00:49:44,040 --> 00:49:45,810 killer feature of podcasting. 822 00:49:45,839 --> 00:49:49,709 But look at look at the where the power is the power is with 823 00:49:50,159 --> 00:49:54,959 the developers. The power is with the creators. That's the 824 00:49:54,959 --> 00:49:58,409 bottom line. They literally paying people to come to their 825 00:49:58,409 --> 00:50:02,219 sorry as platform doesn't gotta say this guy. I mean, you know, 826 00:50:02,489 --> 00:50:07,499 we're not paying anybody to come and use podcasting 2.0. So this 827 00:50:07,499 --> 00:50:11,699 fear this and this constant reporting about the job, the 828 00:50:11,699 --> 00:50:17,489 percentages and and oh my god, it's so boring. It's just 829 00:50:17,489 --> 00:50:21,929 boring. I don't care. I really don't it's not it's not it's not 830 00:50:21,929 --> 00:50:25,769 important. There will never be a king of all media. It's just 831 00:50:25,799 --> 00:50:28,619 it's too fragmented. It's going to be even more fragmented. 832 00:50:28,619 --> 00:50:34,409 We're seeing newspapers, and television and radio in the 833 00:50:34,409 --> 00:50:37,499 traditional sense. And I know that I'll get pushed back 834 00:50:37,499 --> 00:50:41,279 because yes, there's a trillion dollars in advertising still 835 00:50:41,279 --> 00:50:45,929 being made in radio, but it is dying slowly, is dying, and we 836 00:50:45,929 --> 00:50:51,239 are rocketing up. And the same goes for podcasting. 1.0. You 837 00:50:51,239 --> 00:50:52,379 know, it's coming. 838 00:50:53,309 --> 00:50:58,049 But you mentioned payment. And I think, I think I can, I'll put 839 00:50:58,049 --> 00:51:00,629 up my more conspiracy theories on this podcast, because I don't 840 00:51:00,629 --> 00:51:04,079 know that people listen to it. But if I think one of the more 841 00:51:04,079 --> 00:51:07,199 interesting things, if you ever get value to value or value for 842 00:51:07,199 --> 00:51:13,079 value working? Is it going in reverse? I think I've had an 843 00:51:13,079 --> 00:51:16,199 early streaming app on Android, you get to see like how people 844 00:51:16,199 --> 00:51:19,499 actually use your app, and what is important to people. And I 845 00:51:19,499 --> 00:51:22,229 think it's important, or I think what I found was really 846 00:51:22,229 --> 00:51:26,339 interesting is that people are extremely price sensitive. And 847 00:51:26,339 --> 00:51:28,739 people will go through all sorts of hoops to like not pay for 848 00:51:28,739 --> 00:51:35,999 stuff. And so I think, I think the idea of paying listeners as 849 00:51:35,999 --> 00:51:40,499 a as a as a kind of incentive to come over to your to it like 850 00:51:40,499 --> 00:51:42,569 another app or something like that is actually pretty 851 00:51:42,569 --> 00:51:45,689 compelling. I know. Google, for example, would probably pay 852 00:51:45,809 --> 00:51:48,899 people to log in and search if they could, but there's just no 853 00:51:48,899 --> 00:51:52,889 mechanism exists. I had to have everyone who have wallets, I 854 00:51:52,889 --> 00:51:56,489 think the whole idea of kind of like, Hey, here's a way to 855 00:51:56,489 --> 00:51:59,969 market that doesn't penalize the listener and actually add some 856 00:51:59,969 --> 00:52:01,859 value to the listener. I think that could be really 857 00:52:01,859 --> 00:52:02,339 interesting. 858 00:52:02,760 --> 00:52:07,350 I disagree. And that's only recently that I've thought about 859 00:52:07,350 --> 00:52:11,460 this, then we I think we're talking with Roy from breeze 860 00:52:11,460 --> 00:52:15,540 about it. And I think when you pay people to come in and use 861 00:52:15,540 --> 00:52:19,710 your stuff, and in this case, you're not saying Come listen to 862 00:52:19,710 --> 00:52:23,850 Joe Rogan on on curio cast, you're saying come use curio 863 00:52:23,850 --> 00:52:26,940 caster, I don't think that's the way it works. 864 00:52:27,390 --> 00:52:29,790 No, it'd be more more like marketing, right? Where it's 865 00:52:29,790 --> 00:52:33,870 like, instead of paying overcast to show something, you would 866 00:52:33,870 --> 00:52:36,630 say, Hey, you're gonna feel good about listening to this, because 867 00:52:36,630 --> 00:52:39,510 you're gonna get some, I don't know, it's kind of like play to 868 00:52:39,510 --> 00:52:42,090 pay games, almost. But I do agree. You don't want to bring 869 00:52:42,090 --> 00:52:43,110 in people just for that 870 00:52:43,140 --> 00:52:47,010 you're gonna get you're gonna get Yeah. I don't like it as a 871 00:52:47,010 --> 00:52:50,790 marketing tactic to buy customers in that manner. 872 00:52:50,790 --> 00:52:55,230 Because I think particularly if you're giving people money, the 873 00:52:55,230 --> 00:52:57,090 same people will come and get free money. 874 00:52:57,989 --> 00:52:59,909 It's like, what was that old search engine, there was an old 875 00:52:59,909 --> 00:53:02,849 search engine that would pay you to search I think was like x 12 876 00:53:02,849 --> 00:53:06,629 or something like that way back like.com era? I think they just 877 00:53:06,659 --> 00:53:08,819 the payment system doesn't really allow for it now, where 878 00:53:08,819 --> 00:53:11,369 if you guys figure out payments, then I think that'll be well. 879 00:53:11,369 --> 00:53:12,869 What part have we not figured out? 880 00:53:14,369 --> 00:53:17,039 Well, the going the other way again, and more kind of like, 881 00:53:17,129 --> 00:53:19,169 you know, it's got to be a little easier than it is now. 882 00:53:19,620 --> 00:53:23,160 Oh, of course, of course, it's got to be easier than we are in. 883 00:53:23,490 --> 00:53:26,760 I mean, we're we're having arguments about channel fees, 884 00:53:26,760 --> 00:53:31,020 which will be meeting Nolan void in a year from now. This is this 885 00:53:31,020 --> 00:53:32,730 is going incredibly fast. 886 00:53:32,969 --> 00:53:35,099 Yeah. And it's really exciting to because you see everything. 887 00:53:35,129 --> 00:53:36,929 It's kind of cool, because everything is coming together at 888 00:53:36,929 --> 00:53:39,329 the right time. You know, lightning is kind of well, not a 889 00:53:39,329 --> 00:53:41,309 lot different places other than podcasting, not, 890 00:53:41,489 --> 00:53:45,239 not just that, but people are realizing they're getting 891 00:53:45,239 --> 00:53:48,359 screwed by pig tech is my new one. Pig tech is the exact 892 00:53:48,539 --> 00:53:52,289 they're getting screwed by pig tech. D platform. They're deep 893 00:53:52,289 --> 00:53:58,559 platforming countries now. I mean, people are are aware of 894 00:53:58,559 --> 00:54:00,689 this. They're awake, they're starting to make different 895 00:54:00,689 --> 00:54:01,409 choices. 896 00:54:01,469 --> 00:54:04,139 Well, if only there was some sort of federated version of 897 00:54:04,139 --> 00:54:05,909 Twitter that we could kind of build on. 898 00:54:06,179 --> 00:54:08,909 Could we put that into the app screen? Could we put that into 899 00:54:08,909 --> 00:54:11,369 the apps for comments that everybody could see no matter 900 00:54:11,369 --> 00:54:14,369 what, what that was a great idea. And it could work even on 901 00:54:14,729 --> 00:54:17,369 and it could even work in a in an embedded player on a web 902 00:54:17,369 --> 00:54:19,949 page. What a grand idea. Do you have any thoughts about that 903 00:54:19,949 --> 00:54:20,909 John Spurlock? 904 00:54:21,480 --> 00:54:24,300 I want to hear about No, no. I want to hear about the format 905 00:54:24,300 --> 00:54:28,380 war between lightning comments and activity pub. This is 906 00:54:28,410 --> 00:54:29,580 clearly going to be afraid 907 00:54:29,580 --> 00:54:32,970 of losing losing this war. Who's in this war? 908 00:54:33,240 --> 00:54:37,770 Did you listen to pod land? I haven't heard. I haven't. I have 909 00:54:37,770 --> 00:54:38,940 some thoughts on this. And I 910 00:54:38,940 --> 00:54:41,160 didn't get it. Tell me tell me what the premise was because I 911 00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:43,620 didn't I didn't hear this yet. Like, go 912 00:54:43,620 --> 00:54:46,410 ahead. Well, basically, it's that we have to comment systems, 913 00:54:46,410 --> 00:54:50,490 right? Nominally, we have booster grams, which kind of go 914 00:54:50,490 --> 00:54:53,280 over the Lightning Network. And then we're talking about kind of 915 00:54:53,280 --> 00:54:59,970 more general like Twitter type comments for each episode and 916 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:03,360 thinking was I think, hey, now developers have to support both. 917 00:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,140 But I responded to Oscar on his GitHub thing. And I think 918 00:55:07,140 --> 00:55:10,140 actually what he's doing is really good in that we need some 919 00:55:10,140 --> 00:55:15,300 sort of way of reading these lightning comments right now, if 920 00:55:15,300 --> 00:55:19,560 I'm an app, I can't read booster grams. So that's a problem. And 921 00:55:19,560 --> 00:55:23,190 so I think tools like Halla pad will is one way of solving them. 922 00:55:23,580 --> 00:55:26,460 But I do think it's worth thinking about how to expose 923 00:55:26,460 --> 00:55:29,850 that in some sort of JSON formatted way. So I think that 924 00:55:29,850 --> 00:55:32,730 protocol that he's come up with is actually might be a really 925 00:55:32,730 --> 00:55:35,790 good starting point for how to do that. But how I see that is 926 00:55:35,790 --> 00:55:38,820 it's basically he's coming up with a protocol. So it's almost 927 00:55:38,820 --> 00:55:41,850 like he's coming up with a protocol that we could slot in, 928 00:55:42,570 --> 00:55:47,700 as a social interact platform, along with any other social 929 00:55:47,700 --> 00:55:50,670 interact platforms that you have for that episode. So what I was 930 00:55:50,670 --> 00:55:52,650 seeing is that you could have something like, here's where to 931 00:55:52,650 --> 00:55:55,620 go for activity pub comments for this episode. And here's where 932 00:55:55,620 --> 00:55:58,890 to go for lightning comments. And it's a way to get people not 933 00:55:58,890 --> 00:56:02,070 exclusively into one or the other. So it kind of like lets 934 00:56:02,070 --> 00:56:06,150 people go into lightning gradually. So to me, I think 935 00:56:06,150 --> 00:56:08,970 it's like people forget that the social interact tag is like not 936 00:56:09,030 --> 00:56:12,090 exclusive. It says, well, here's where to go on Twitter for this 937 00:56:12,090 --> 00:56:14,550 episode, right? Here's where to go on the fediverse for this 938 00:56:14,550 --> 00:56:17,310 episode, and I think it's really important to say, here's where 939 00:56:17,310 --> 00:56:19,620 to go to get the booster grams for this episode, which right 940 00:56:19,620 --> 00:56:22,380 now is impossible. But what's cool about what Benjamin has 941 00:56:22,380 --> 00:56:25,830 done is that he's created a tag that will basically work for 942 00:56:25,830 --> 00:56:30,720 that. You can specify, you know, one or more kind of platforms 943 00:56:30,720 --> 00:56:31,440 for each episode. So 944 00:56:31,440 --> 00:56:34,290 let me let me just say something about the publishing of booster 945 00:56:34,290 --> 00:56:37,530 grams, because, you know, we've pioneered the value for value 946 00:56:37,530 --> 00:56:44,190 model. And the reason you have a booster gram in the value for 947 00:56:44,190 --> 00:56:49,650 value model, initially, and it's open for interpretation, is the 948 00:56:49,650 --> 00:56:54,390 feedback loop. Which is okay, I'd like you to support the 949 00:56:54,390 --> 00:56:57,540 show, whatever it's worth to you, that comes back. And then 950 00:56:57,540 --> 00:57:00,390 the intent the way it's been working, there may be other ways 951 00:57:00,390 --> 00:57:03,420 to do it. But the way it's been working, has, then you read out 952 00:57:03,420 --> 00:57:09,360 the message. And we like no agenda, we don't publish all 953 00:57:09,510 --> 00:57:13,140 messages. And we publish zero those messages, we tell 954 00:57:13,140 --> 00:57:17,040 everybody, and we may, we may skip around and read through it 955 00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:20,610 or, you know, sometimes there's no message which is, you know, 956 00:57:20,640 --> 00:57:26,730 with booster rams is is more rare. I'm not necessarily sure 957 00:57:26,730 --> 00:57:30,600 that that the future of booster grams is to have them published 958 00:57:30,600 --> 00:57:34,830 everywhere. In fact, I think it detracts from what you can 959 00:57:34,830 --> 00:57:36,330 actually do with value for value. 960 00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:41,400 And they may be I may not be encapsulating your feelings on 961 00:57:41,400 --> 00:57:45,000 this job. But I think, I think, John, I think what, what you're 962 00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:48,180 saying there's a terminal terminology problem here. And 963 00:57:48,180 --> 00:57:52,950 booster grams is sort of a catch all phrase, that means anytime 964 00:57:52,950 --> 00:57:55,980 somebody sends you sends a message on lightning. And that's 965 00:57:55,980 --> 00:58:01,680 not exactly what Oscar is proposing. Because he's in a, in 966 00:58:01,680 --> 00:58:04,380 a thing think that when we, when we talk about it, it comes 967 00:58:04,380 --> 00:58:09,210 across garbled. But I think like, what, what Oscar is 968 00:58:09,210 --> 00:58:13,620 proposing, and I think what you're talking about John, is, 969 00:58:14,550 --> 00:58:19,350 is lightning comments, being just another style of comment 970 00:58:19,380 --> 00:58:22,740 where there's a different TLV record, and it's its own thing. 971 00:58:23,010 --> 00:58:27,240 And then the booster grams are, you know, those are still point 972 00:58:27,240 --> 00:58:30,750 to point within the app. It's an app, it's an app to it's a 973 00:58:30,750 --> 00:58:35,550 listener to podcaster message, then you have this other thing 974 00:58:35,550 --> 00:58:40,590 called a boost called a lightning comment. And just if 975 00:58:40,740 --> 00:58:45,360 they could mix, or they might not, and but but but there's 976 00:58:46,679 --> 00:58:50,279 Sorry, sorry, I think isn't that the purview of the podcaster 977 00:58:50,279 --> 00:58:52,709 though? I mean, I guess I'm more liberal on this, like, you could 978 00:58:52,709 --> 00:58:55,379 have a podcaster that wants to show them and then one that 979 00:58:55,379 --> 00:58:56,039 wants to filter 980 00:58:56,039 --> 00:59:01,229 you can you can you can my point is I know what works I'm not so 981 00:59:01,229 --> 00:59:03,539 sure this works really well. I'm not 982 00:59:03,539 --> 00:59:07,019 well, because Because booster grams the way we do it is part 983 00:59:07,019 --> 00:59:08,129 of its show content. 984 00:59:08,190 --> 00:59:11,280 Well that's how they're supposed to work that the intent that's 985 00:59:11,280 --> 00:59:14,220 how the value for value loop work. I'm not saying that's the 986 00:59:14,220 --> 00:59:17,760 only way you can do whatever you want. I don't even like having a 987 00:59:17,760 --> 00:59:22,050 Twitter and and an a mass and I would rather Why don't you have 988 00:59:22,080 --> 00:59:26,400 a if you want to publish it put a bot that connects your booster 989 00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:31,290 grams to your Mastodon or your activity pub. I'm not so sure 990 00:59:31,290 --> 00:59:33,870 that it's a good idea to have all these these different ways 991 00:59:33,870 --> 00:59:37,500 to do it. It's okay. I mean, we can also have five different 992 00:59:37,500 --> 00:59:41,250 types of crypto in in the Valley for value payments, which we 993 00:59:41,250 --> 00:59:41,610 don't. 994 00:59:42,270 --> 00:59:48,270 Well, the you know, the issue here is that I don't even look 995 00:59:48,270 --> 00:59:50,760 at I don't even look at the booster cramps during the week. 996 00:59:50,790 --> 00:59:53,760 I print them off right before the show because I don't want to 997 00:59:53,760 --> 00:59:56,700 know what they are before we read them because it's show 998 00:59:56,700 --> 01:00:00,750 content and if you publish them in advance then all your 999 01:00:00,750 --> 01:00:04,530 listeners already know half of the show. And and it's it's not 1000 01:00:04,530 --> 01:00:09,270 as exciting. It's you don't get to hear the new the new content 1001 01:00:09,300 --> 01:00:13,800 and so like, but but with a lightning comments system, you 1002 01:00:13,800 --> 01:00:17,250 can gateway those things however you want to so if you had, if 1003 01:00:17,250 --> 01:00:21,720 you if you were accepting lightning comments and on an 1004 01:00:21,720 --> 01:00:26,190 episode, and in those comments that you know our comments are 1005 01:00:26,190 --> 01:00:28,920 getting, they could be read, it could be gatewayed out to 1006 01:00:28,920 --> 01:00:32,280 activity pub or anything else you wanted them to be, I don't 1007 01:00:32,280 --> 01:00:35,760 see them as being mutually exclusive to activity pub and 1008 01:00:35,760 --> 01:00:36,090 all. 1009 01:00:37,020 --> 01:00:41,430 If I may, it's beautiful to hear you speak that way. Because I 1010 01:00:41,430 --> 01:00:46,260 hear you, at one point talking like a content creator. And the 1011 01:00:46,260 --> 01:00:48,840 other one, I hear you talking as a software developer 1012 01:00:48,870 --> 01:00:53,340 technologist, there's a huge lack of people listening to what 1013 01:00:53,340 --> 01:01:01,050 creators want hugely lack. And so we wind up sometimes creating 1014 01:01:01,050 --> 01:01:04,890 all kinds of things, or we are in danger of creating things 1015 01:01:05,880 --> 01:01:10,620 that people just might not wind up using, or using in a 1016 01:01:10,620 --> 01:01:13,680 completely different way and then crippled because we weren't 1017 01:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,730 communicating. 1018 01:01:15,360 --> 01:01:17,640 Well, you've called me down on this for years ever, you know, 1019 01:01:17,640 --> 01:01:19,800 we've we've always had conversations, phone 1020 01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:23,640 conversations where, you know, I said, Hey, I just built this 1021 01:01:23,640 --> 01:01:26,430 thing into the framework trelar editor that's gonna let you do 1022 01:01:26,430 --> 01:01:28,800 so and so. And you're like, Yeah, but that's not the way I 1023 01:01:28,800 --> 01:01:32,160 do things. Right. And, and you're like, let me let me go 1024 01:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,820 over and tell you exactly what my workflow is. And you lay it 1025 01:01:35,820 --> 01:01:38,850 out. And then I like, Oh, I get this, like the light bulb goes 1026 01:01:38,850 --> 01:01:39,030 off. 1027 01:01:39,060 --> 01:01:44,820 So to me, cross app comments in their origin, are extremely 1028 01:01:44,820 --> 01:01:50,250 exciting, because I just want to have an app that I use, and I'm 1029 01:01:50,250 --> 01:01:55,950 not so worried about, if I can then go and transport my profile 1030 01:01:55,950 --> 01:01:59,040 to another app. I appreciate that we're thinking about these 1031 01:01:59,040 --> 01:02:01,740 things, even though we still don't have OPML import and 1032 01:02:01,740 --> 01:02:07,440 exports anywhere. We're not enough that I just don't think 1033 01:02:07,440 --> 01:02:10,650 it's that important. We want comments and apps that work 1034 01:02:10,650 --> 01:02:11,730 across the apps. 1035 01:02:12,180 --> 01:02:14,460 Yeah, and I think we're looking wait on the road on some of this 1036 01:02:14,460 --> 01:02:17,640 stuff. I think the older I get the more kind of like pragmatic, 1037 01:02:17,640 --> 01:02:20,610 I'm like, Well, this is not a problem, because no one is 1038 01:02:20,610 --> 01:02:24,090 commenting anywhere. Now, it's like RSS is that we kind of need 1039 01:02:24,090 --> 01:02:28,890 to see the feed with structured data. So this is gonna, like we 1040 01:02:28,890 --> 01:02:31,140 were talking about before for apps that want to check out. 1041 01:02:31,440 --> 01:02:33,630 This is not a user facing, but let's say they just want to 1042 01:02:33,630 --> 01:02:36,780 follow the, you know, ingest the comments for searching as well. 1043 01:02:36,780 --> 01:02:40,860 All of that is useful in the feed as we've described. So I 1044 01:02:40,860 --> 01:02:43,710 think we are not even thinking of all the possibilities that. 1045 01:02:45,059 --> 01:02:48,569 And again, I'll come back to the numbers. I'm not so focused on 1046 01:02:48,569 --> 01:02:53,219 what YouTube may or may not be doing. But when I hear women, a 1047 01:02:53,219 --> 01:02:58,199 large segment of women listen to podcasts on the podcast page 1048 01:02:58,199 --> 01:03:02,669 itself. We shame on all of us shame on the hosting companies. 1049 01:03:02,789 --> 01:03:06,539 Shame on us. Shame on me. Because 1050 01:03:06,569 --> 01:03:08,999 I know I've been seeing a lot of people going over to good pods. 1051 01:03:09,029 --> 01:03:11,639 Have you guys checked out good pods yet? It's actually kind of 1052 01:03:11,639 --> 01:03:15,569 a good app. But it's one of its biggest features is comments. 1053 01:03:15,630 --> 01:03:19,200 Right? But it's it's closed off. It's a closed actually. And so 1054 01:03:19,200 --> 01:03:25,020 that's an and I'm sure they're fine people. I think I'm even I 1055 01:03:25,020 --> 01:03:27,600 think I may even be doing a podcast with the CEO or 1056 01:03:27,600 --> 01:03:31,290 something. And I'm so I'll learn a lot more. But you know, when 1057 01:03:31,290 --> 01:03:35,100 it's when it's a closed off community? Well, that's the 1058 01:03:35,100 --> 01:03:38,280 thing we're trying to get away from. That's exactly why we're 1059 01:03:38,280 --> 01:03:42,390 doing this as we I let Apple become the the on ramp to 1060 01:03:42,390 --> 01:03:46,440 podcasting. We shouldn't allow anyone to be the on ramp to 1061 01:03:46,440 --> 01:03:47,250 comments. 1062 01:03:47,520 --> 01:03:50,550 Well take. Let's talk about good pause for a second. Would a 1063 01:03:50,550 --> 01:03:53,730 company like good pods? Is this is theoretical, because we don't 1064 01:03:53,730 --> 01:03:59,040 know them? What a company like good pods be willing to publish 1065 01:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,250 back out their comments as activity pub? Or do they see 1066 01:04:02,250 --> 01:04:05,040 that as some sort of proprietary advantage over the market? 1067 01:04:05,490 --> 01:04:09,780 Well, what is their business? I don't know. The reason why we 1068 01:04:09,780 --> 01:04:16,950 can even discuss this is because we have no business. Yeah. So I 1069 01:04:16,950 --> 01:04:22,170 would think that for in general, most of these types of companies 1070 01:04:22,470 --> 01:04:27,360 need to contain their users to some degree, because that's the 1071 01:04:27,360 --> 01:04:31,290 value. It's their RP use, or their, you know, their value for 1072 01:04:31,290 --> 01:04:34,800 whatever whatever metric they're using. And I believe they're, 1073 01:04:34,830 --> 01:04:38,580 they're funded. So they have I think to have investors could be 1074 01:04:38,580 --> 01:04:39,240 wrong. I worry 1075 01:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,880 about pod chaser more than I worry about good pods in that 1076 01:04:41,880 --> 01:04:42,270 respect. 1077 01:04:42,300 --> 01:04:44,940 I don't worry. I don't worry about any of it. I've seen all 1078 01:04:44,940 --> 01:04:47,910 this come and go. I've seen AOL come and go 1079 01:04:48,150 --> 01:04:51,090 possible integration. I think it would be cool if I actually 1080 01:04:51,090 --> 01:04:54,090 think that main hurdle for a lot of these apps and they've just 1081 01:04:54,090 --> 01:04:57,240 flipped a bit is do I want comments at all? Because it is 1082 01:04:57,240 --> 01:05:00,600 it's a technical thing, but it's also a it's a head Right, I 1083 01:05:00,600 --> 01:05:03,990 mean, you are onboarding, user generated content and all that. 1084 01:05:03,990 --> 01:05:08,010 So I think a lot of apps have to make that first decision, do I 1085 01:05:08,400 --> 01:05:11,580 want to sign up for this? And no amount of magic activity pub 1086 01:05:11,580 --> 01:05:14,940 sauce is gonna kind of save them from some of that now we can 1087 01:05:14,970 --> 01:05:18,420 create components that make a lot of this easier. But I think 1088 01:05:18,420 --> 01:05:21,330 there's still a fundamental thing of do I want to integrate 1089 01:05:21,480 --> 01:05:24,120 user base comments in my app? And is that going to be a 1090 01:05:24,120 --> 01:05:26,730 feature that I promote? I think good parts has already crossed 1091 01:05:26,730 --> 01:05:29,730 that. So I could see them at some point, if there's a 1092 01:05:29,730 --> 01:05:32,250 thriving community elsewhere of them bringing it in as well. I'm 1093 01:05:32,250 --> 01:05:35,130 not, I don't know anyone over there. But I think from what 1094 01:05:35,130 --> 01:05:38,700 I've seen, so far, they've demonstrated that it's, it's a 1095 01:05:38,700 --> 01:05:39,510 valuable thing. 1096 01:05:40,260 --> 01:05:45,510 But so when it comes to pay, like, there's this issue of 1097 01:05:45,780 --> 01:05:49,830 paying for comments, and that's very distasteful, which is part 1098 01:05:49,830 --> 01:05:54,240 of the lightning comments, you know, thing is, we can all agree 1099 01:05:54,240 --> 01:05:58,050 that if you have to pay for comments, that it's going to 1100 01:05:58,050 --> 01:06:01,500 increase the quality of the comment. I mean, to some degree, 1101 01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:04,050 you're going to be less likely to have spam and that kind of 1102 01:06:04,050 --> 01:06:06,690 thing. But then there's the ethical thing of Do you want to 1103 01:06:06,690 --> 01:06:10,500 have to make somebody pay to comment? And the answer is no, 1104 01:06:10,950 --> 01:06:16,440 you don't, you don't want to be that way. But in that regard, I 1105 01:06:16,440 --> 01:06:21,330 think that's you, it's okay to have both things exist, like a 1106 01:06:21,330 --> 01:06:26,460 lightning comment system where you where you do, the app says, 1107 01:06:26,460 --> 01:06:29,400 Okay, I want I don't want to have to deal with the headaches 1108 01:06:29,400 --> 01:06:33,150 of spam. So I want to enable comments only for people who are 1109 01:06:33,150 --> 01:06:37,860 willing to give up one Satoshi, which you know, 1/100 of a cent. 1110 01:06:38,460 --> 01:06:43,200 I want. That's the choice that I make for my app. And then you 1111 01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,050 have this other app that says, No, I'm a free for all want, I 1112 01:06:46,050 --> 01:06:49,620 want everything. And because you can go back out to the hole, 1113 01:06:49,650 --> 01:06:53,580 because you can gateway it back out to the world. Either way, 1114 01:06:54,180 --> 01:06:57,930 then we all get the benefit of seeing both both things in 1115 01:06:57,930 --> 01:07:02,280 action. And we can we can then say make decisions later on. 1116 01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:06,180 Okay, well, maybe we want to sort things in a different way. 1117 01:07:06,180 --> 01:07:09,090 Or when we go to podcast discovery or search, we want to 1118 01:07:09,090 --> 01:07:14,490 give more weight to one or the other. Like, I just I see the 1119 01:07:14,880 --> 01:07:19,590 the existence of both of those things as fine. I think they I 1120 01:07:19,590 --> 01:07:22,410 think it's okay, it makes sense. I don't see it as a format war 1121 01:07:22,410 --> 01:07:26,400 at all. I don't know how you feel. But that's the way it 1122 01:07:26,850 --> 01:07:27,600 seems to me. Yeah, 1123 01:07:27,599 --> 01:07:31,139 I don't either. I get I think it slots in very well with the it's 1124 01:07:31,139 --> 01:07:33,929 a choice. So if the if the podcaster chooses to publish 1125 01:07:33,929 --> 01:07:37,259 those comments out if they want to do it, there's a tag for it 1126 01:07:37,259 --> 01:07:40,079 right now. And then we just define that as a protocol that 1127 01:07:40,440 --> 01:07:44,100 right, but where we're where we're at right now, format wars, 1128 01:07:44,100 --> 01:07:46,140 or whatever it is. We're stagnant? 1129 01:07:46,890 --> 01:07:50,580 Well, I would say I would say in that in that regard with here's 1130 01:07:50,580 --> 01:07:53,340 here's what would help distinguish a comment on 1131 01:07:53,340 --> 01:07:58,620 lightning from a booster gram. And that is, if somebody is 1132 01:07:58,620 --> 01:08:02,040 paying to comment on lightning, debt payments should go to the 1133 01:08:02,040 --> 01:08:09,150 app, not the podcaster booster grams, good podcaster. Comments 1134 01:08:09,150 --> 01:08:11,910 good? Will the podcaster is not running the comment system. 1135 01:08:11,910 --> 01:08:15,660 They're not incurring any of the cost or head or overhead or pain 1136 01:08:15,660 --> 01:08:17,640 or anything of moderate? Just want 1137 01:08:17,639 --> 01:08:22,109 comments? Yeah, I just want comments. I don't care. Just 1138 01:08:22,109 --> 01:08:25,049 give me a thick. I don't care, given the comments, 1139 01:08:25,080 --> 01:08:27,210 nice problem to have sort of categories. 1140 01:08:27,270 --> 01:08:32,010 Everybody needs, like block on news for the next week. And just 1141 01:08:32,010 --> 01:08:36,480 don't think about what everybody you know, whether it's pig tech 1142 01:08:36,480 --> 01:08:38,640 or not, we're all looking at the competition. 1143 01:08:38,969 --> 01:08:42,689 But what's needed, so is do we need, I feel like, I feel like 1144 01:08:42,689 --> 01:08:43,049 we need 1145 01:08:43,110 --> 01:08:46,410 what we need is to focus and not bring in all these other 1146 01:08:46,470 --> 01:08:49,980 problems. I'm sorry. And that's the way that's the way that's 1147 01:08:49,980 --> 01:08:52,380 the way we've done it. So I'm okay with it. We bring in all 1148 01:08:52,380 --> 01:08:54,750 these problems and all these things, and we can't do this, we 1149 01:08:54,750 --> 01:08:59,100 need to integrate that. And then no one knows what to do. So for 1150 01:08:59,130 --> 01:09:03,660 months now, I've been posting the social links on all of my 1151 01:09:03,660 --> 01:09:06,810 podcast, there's millions of people who listen to my 1152 01:09:06,810 --> 01:09:12,000 podcasts. If there was an app that could do comments, I'd be 1153 01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:16,290 talking about it and getting people to use these apps. So but 1154 01:09:16,290 --> 01:09:19,290 there's not because we don't have anyone that can do a login 1155 01:09:19,290 --> 01:09:19,650 yet. 1156 01:09:20,130 --> 01:09:24,510 Well thread. To me the solution to that really is is in one 1157 01:09:24,510 --> 01:09:27,180 piece of code and that's what you wrote John, this Dan 1158 01:09:27,210 --> 01:09:30,510 and I have people because I posted on no agenda social or 1159 01:09:30,510 --> 01:09:35,910 podcasts index dot social, it's populated. So if you open up the 1160 01:09:35,940 --> 01:09:39,330 the comments tab on any of my podcasts, there's comments 1161 01:09:39,330 --> 01:09:44,790 there. So, you know, I'm doing I'm doing what's expected on my 1162 01:09:44,790 --> 01:09:46,200 end. It just seems 1163 01:09:46,200 --> 01:09:48,270 like one of the things is Yeah, I think you're just you're 1164 01:09:48,270 --> 01:09:51,150 really early, right? I mean, the tag isn't even technically part 1165 01:09:51,150 --> 01:09:53,490 of the spec yet. Right. They've so I think that's gonna go in 1166 01:09:53,490 --> 01:09:54,030 this next Do you 1167 01:09:54,030 --> 01:09:56,430 think that slows me down John Spurlock? No, you. 1168 01:09:57,660 --> 01:10:00,300 You're giving me test data that I put you on my website. That 1169 01:10:00,300 --> 01:10:02,970 new hype website I put up there podcast love 1170 01:10:02,970 --> 01:10:06,900 your hype website. It's snazzy, snazzy. Yeah, I 1171 01:10:06,900 --> 01:10:10,170 think I think it's just a slow sort of thing. I mean, we do, we 1172 01:10:10,170 --> 01:10:12,660 are waiting for apps to integrate this. So what excited 1173 01:10:12,660 --> 01:10:15,840 me so much about it, I, I don't have a dog in the activity pub 1174 01:10:15,840 --> 01:10:20,520 fight. But what excited me about it is that it exists that it 1175 01:10:20,520 --> 01:10:23,430 basically is exactly what we would design, if we were going 1176 01:10:23,430 --> 01:10:26,880 to design something like this, that was kind of a podcast wide, 1177 01:10:27,360 --> 01:10:30,750 open Internet protocol based solution. So that exists, the 1178 01:10:30,750 --> 01:10:34,200 fediverse exists, like you said, you already have a bunch of 1179 01:10:34,200 --> 01:10:37,470 people that are, are actually using a system. So we're not 1180 01:10:37,470 --> 01:10:41,160 talking about the additional cost of finding users to do 1181 01:10:41,160 --> 01:10:44,460 this. But I think we're just waiting on apps to make this the 1182 01:10:44,490 --> 01:10:47,070 experience pretty seamless. And to do that it's not as easy as 1183 01:10:47,070 --> 01:10:50,310 like a JSON file, right? You, you have to actually do some 1184 01:10:50,310 --> 01:10:52,920 work, you have to say, Oh, I have this logged in user on my 1185 01:10:52,920 --> 01:10:57,600 side. Now I have to define a profile for them. And so I think 1186 01:10:57,600 --> 01:11:00,060 what's cool, and what I've been kind of working on the last few 1187 01:11:00,060 --> 01:11:02,790 months is just creating some pieces that at least show the 1188 01:11:02,790 --> 01:11:06,180 way on how an app might do this. And then a couple of tools that 1189 01:11:06,180 --> 01:11:09,510 apps could use to read comments, and then to post comments back, 1190 01:11:09,510 --> 01:11:12,990 but it's again, it's very early days. So I wouldn't expect 1191 01:11:12,990 --> 01:11:16,800 anything right away. But I think again, once you see apps, going 1192 01:11:16,800 --> 01:11:20,010 back to competition, let's say pod friend integrates this, you 1193 01:11:20,010 --> 01:11:22,290 know, I think you're gonna see apps kind of integrate this 1194 01:11:22,290 --> 01:11:25,350 right away. But the podcast social thing is more of another 1195 01:11:25,350 --> 01:11:28,620 problem. Because I mean, this, this feature is also limited by 1196 01:11:28,620 --> 01:11:33,540 the fact that no podcasts really are putting it in at the moment. 1197 01:11:33,540 --> 01:11:33,900 So 1198 01:11:34,169 --> 01:11:37,169 what do you what do you mean, that's, I have, I have four 1199 01:11:37,169 --> 01:11:42,119 podcasts. 1.4 million people listen to one of those podcasts. 1200 01:11:43,110 --> 01:11:46,830 And about a half of all podcasts that actually implemented that. 1201 01:11:48,930 --> 01:11:53,010 Okay, but but I can't but you see, you know, who listens to my 1202 01:11:53,010 --> 01:11:54,720 show? podcasters. 1203 01:11:55,140 --> 01:11:57,630 But you know, what, and that's a good point. I mean, it's easy. I 1204 01:11:57,630 --> 01:12:00,330 think a lot of people think that the podcaster side of this is 1205 01:12:00,330 --> 01:12:03,690 difficult, and it's not it's like a tag with a link to 1206 01:12:03,690 --> 01:12:04,620 notice. But 1207 01:12:04,919 --> 01:12:09,359 what what is what we have here is a failure to communicate. Go 1208 01:12:09,359 --> 01:12:13,559 look at the engagement on podcasting. 2.0 It's a lot of no 1209 01:12:13,559 --> 01:12:18,299 agenda, people who are balls to the wall doing shows that listen 1210 01:12:18,299 --> 01:12:23,339 to Spencer, and and going completely flying without a net. 1211 01:12:24,059 --> 01:12:28,949 And, yeah, it's really true. It's beautiful to watch. And, 1212 01:12:29,699 --> 01:12:33,929 and I it needs to be recognized that people are using it. 1213 01:12:34,229 --> 01:12:38,669 They're using it. Let's go, let's let's they're ready for it 1214 01:12:38,669 --> 01:12:41,669 anything you do anything actually. So, but just again, 1215 01:12:41,939 --> 01:12:45,599 John again, um, I just got I'm so sick of the numbers. Hardly 1216 01:12:45,599 --> 01:12:50,039 anybody's using it. Okay, chicken egg. There. It's not 1217 01:12:50,039 --> 01:12:54,029 hardly anyone's using it. We put a tag in if one person uses 1218 01:12:54,030 --> 01:13:00,540 it. Well, yeah, but what I mean, like what, when you say just do 1219 01:13:00,540 --> 01:13:05,280 it? I mean, there's no. I mean, you got what do we do? Know 1220 01:13:05,310 --> 01:13:08,460 what, what a formalized attack? Yes, yes, no, 1221 01:13:08,490 --> 01:13:12,360 no. But what I'm saying what I'm saying is, we're getting off 1222 01:13:12,360 --> 01:13:17,310 track by we're being distracted by do we do we make it lightning 1223 01:13:17,310 --> 01:13:21,120 comments? I mean, it will not get done on the path we're on? 1224 01:13:21,570 --> 01:13:23,400 And that's because, I don't know, see, I 1225 01:13:23,400 --> 01:13:26,550 mean, I'm formalizing the tag. Right. You know, I mean, we're, 1226 01:13:26,760 --> 01:13:29,610 I'm putting it into Phase Five right now. I mean, it's, it's 1227 01:13:29,610 --> 01:13:33,270 getting done, it just has like pot friend, pot friend and curio 1228 01:13:33,270 --> 01:13:37,770 caster and, you know, pod verse, These are forward looking at me 1229 01:13:37,770 --> 01:13:41,070 of apps that are willing to do experimental things. Most apps 1230 01:13:41,070 --> 01:13:44,250 are not like that understood and understood, they're not, they're 1231 01:13:44,250 --> 01:13:48,930 not going to do that. It has to be a formal spec before, before 1232 01:13:48,930 --> 01:13:54,660 it can be before it can be done. I mean, there. I'm not. I'm not 1233 01:13:54,660 --> 01:13:58,230 bothered by the slow by the slow roll of this, it, it doesn't 1234 01:13:58,230 --> 01:14:01,890 bother me because I because every time we come up with some 1235 01:14:02,310 --> 01:14:05,730 new edge case that has to be handled, we're thankful that we 1236 01:14:05,730 --> 01:14:06,960 didn't go too fast on it. 1237 01:14:07,110 --> 01:14:10,860 Dave, I'm, I'm completely in agreement. What I'm saying is, 1238 01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:16,170 I'm disappointed that the creators are, are being left out 1239 01:14:16,170 --> 01:14:17,910 of the conversation and ignored. 1240 01:14:19,200 --> 01:14:22,860 Well, there's just disagreement, there's nothing What do you mean 1241 01:14:22,860 --> 01:14:24,840 by that? Yeah, I don't I don't understand what you mean by 1242 01:14:24,840 --> 01:14:27,480 that. They're not being ignored. Because there's nothing to 1243 01:14:27,510 --> 01:14:30,540 there's nothing, it doesn't exist yet to give to them. But 1244 01:14:30,540 --> 01:14:30,840 when 1245 01:14:30,870 --> 01:14:31,740 when it comes. 1246 01:14:33,900 --> 01:14:36,960 Like because there's no formal specification to give when 1247 01:14:37,260 --> 01:14:42,030 I look at what people are arguing about, or discussing, 1248 01:14:42,690 --> 01:14:46,890 and once once the lightning comments came back, that's when 1249 01:14:46,890 --> 01:14:50,430 I went, Okay, well, it'll be forever because that's going to 1250 01:14:50,430 --> 01:14:52,440 go on for a long time. And I'm just saying, 1251 01:14:52,980 --> 01:14:57,240 no, no, no, no, I don't think it's gonna slow anything down at 1252 01:14:57,240 --> 01:15:00,600 all. No, because in that that's the point of was trying to make 1253 01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:03,540 and I did it ever clearly I did a terrible job was that? I don't 1254 01:15:03,540 --> 01:15:07,980 think that though I don't think it's a format war, if it was an 1255 01:15:07,980 --> 01:15:11,160 actual format war, if this was RSS versus Adam, it would be a 1256 01:15:11,160 --> 01:15:14,130 problem. But I don't think there's a format war at all. But 1257 01:15:14,130 --> 01:15:18,330 isn't isn't activity pub versus Twitter by definition of format 1258 01:15:18,330 --> 01:15:18,690 war? 1259 01:15:19,950 --> 01:15:22,350 Well, I don't I don't think anybody cares about Twitter at 1260 01:15:22,350 --> 01:15:22,740 this point. 1261 01:15:22,740 --> 01:15:25,650 Okay, then why why do we even make it possible to incorporate 1262 01:15:25,650 --> 01:15:25,830 it? 1263 01:15:26,520 --> 01:15:30,120 I think I think you put it in there as possible, just to make 1264 01:15:30,120 --> 01:15:35,370 sure it will the same way that we put in the option for there 1265 01:15:35,370 --> 01:15:39,420 to be an ether coin in the value value block. Good point. Nobody 1266 01:15:39,420 --> 01:15:39,840 cares. 1267 01:15:39,870 --> 01:15:45,150 Good point. Yeah, the altar enclosure is an approved and 1268 01:15:45,150 --> 01:15:49,230 implemented tag, correct. Guess how many apps supported? 1269 01:15:50,730 --> 01:15:57,450 Want to think to a may be leaving one out now. 1270 01:15:57,480 --> 01:16:02,430 So I so I have a I have torrent RSS feeds of all my shows in 1271 01:16:02,430 --> 01:16:08,850 torrent? I have. I'd love to do some IPFS. I don't have the I 1272 01:16:08,850 --> 01:16:12,180 don't have the tools. I don't have the tools to make it. And I 1273 01:16:12,180 --> 01:16:15,420 don't have anyone to receive it. And that's that's a tag that is 1274 01:16:15,660 --> 01:16:16,500 good to go. 1275 01:16:17,280 --> 01:16:21,180 Nobody wants it though. I want to hear that. But you're not. 1276 01:16:21,210 --> 01:16:22,770 You're not exactly. 1277 01:16:22,770 --> 01:16:25,170 And there we are. Thank you. Yeah, point made. 1278 01:16:26,040 --> 01:16:28,500 You're not You're not a listener. And so keep pushing. 1279 01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,740 I'm not I'm not, I'm not a listener. I'm not a listener, I 1280 01:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,200 can't talk to my listeners. I can't convince them to do 1281 01:16:34,200 --> 01:16:37,020 anything. And they never asked me for anything. That's that. 1282 01:16:37,050 --> 01:16:38,250 That's the disconnect, 1283 01:16:38,459 --> 01:16:41,459 that the problem with something like that that you're describing 1284 01:16:41,459 --> 01:16:47,129 is that the listener can tell no difference between a podcast 1285 01:16:47,129 --> 01:16:51,599 delivered through IPFS. And through HTTP download. There's 1286 01:16:51,629 --> 01:16:57,359 absolutely zero benefit, perceived perceived benefit to 1287 01:16:57,359 --> 01:17:01,469 the listener. And for features like that. apps do not care. 1288 01:17:01,709 --> 01:17:05,069 Now, they won the first app to implement alternate enclosure 1289 01:17:05,099 --> 01:17:08,729 was pod LP. They had an actual reason for 1290 01:17:08,760 --> 01:17:16,170 specific reason for you. But But if I wanted to do video I'd want 1291 01:17:16,170 --> 01:17:19,770 to have the alternative tag alternative enclosure tag, I 1292 01:17:19,770 --> 01:17:24,060 want to have the media tag implemented, you know, so So now 1293 01:17:24,060 --> 01:17:26,820 we're at a different chicken and egg. When can I start creating 1294 01:17:26,820 --> 01:17:31,740 stuff using features? If they're not implemented? Do I just go to 1295 01:17:31,830 --> 01:17:34,800 podcast index dot social and say, Hey, what are we going to? 1296 01:17:34,800 --> 01:17:37,710 Do? You understand? Do you understand? I'm just saying 1297 01:17:37,710 --> 01:17:41,100 there's, there's technology dilemmas. And then there's a 1298 01:17:41,100 --> 01:17:46,680 dynamic between the developers and the creators. It's not all 1299 01:17:46,680 --> 01:17:49,770 just about the listeners, the Creators talk to the listeners 1300 01:17:49,770 --> 01:17:52,440 tell them what to do they explain it to them, they help 1301 01:17:52,440 --> 01:17:57,450 them get on board. That's that's the missing piece here is we're 1302 01:17:57,450 --> 01:18:01,590 always like, Oh, well, everyone, people don't. I think people go 1303 01:18:01,590 --> 01:18:04,620 to YouTube, not because it's YouTube, because oh, that's 1304 01:18:04,620 --> 01:18:07,080 where they found it. Or that's where it's easy to listen to. 1305 01:18:07,650 --> 01:18:10,530 They'll go anywhere to find it as long as it fits within their 1306 01:18:10,530 --> 01:18:13,560 realm. And we're not really driving any of that. 1307 01:18:14,670 --> 01:18:17,580 That's it, we'll look at YouTube as an example of something like 1308 01:18:17,580 --> 01:18:20,610 the alternate enclosure. Alternate enclosure is a direct 1309 01:18:20,610 --> 01:18:26,160 replacement, a decentralized replacement for YouTube's 1310 01:18:26,220 --> 01:18:31,560 automatic quality scaling. It's one of the it's one of the 1311 01:18:31,560 --> 01:18:36,960 aspects of alternate enclosure. The The reason YouTube had to 1312 01:18:36,960 --> 01:18:40,890 have that was because it was it without it was a bad experience. 1313 01:18:41,970 --> 01:18:47,100 The issue with with podcasts is you give the same thing. But 1314 01:18:47,100 --> 01:18:51,840 there are so few video podcasts. And most podcasts quality is 1315 01:18:51,840 --> 01:18:55,710 decent, because the bit rates are small. That the the need for 1316 01:18:55,710 --> 01:18:58,770 the alternate enclosure perceived a need for it is tiny, 1317 01:18:58,800 --> 01:18:59,190 but let 1318 01:18:59,190 --> 01:19:02,220 me approach it from a different. Let's stick with YouTube. And 1319 01:19:02,220 --> 01:19:07,650 then I'll shut up the main difference between a podcast and 1320 01:19:07,650 --> 01:19:11,910 an app and podcast and YouTube, can you tell me there's one 1321 01:19:12,180 --> 01:19:14,880 difference? And I don't care if it's audio or video, lots of 1322 01:19:14,880 --> 01:19:18,360 people listen to audio podcasts on YouTube with just the album 1323 01:19:18,360 --> 01:19:22,710 art image. What is the main difference? In that experience 1324 01:19:22,980 --> 01:19:25,590 between between listening to a podcast on YouTube and listening 1325 01:19:25,590 --> 01:19:33,720 to one in a podcast app? The the main difference would be well, I 1326 01:19:33,720 --> 01:19:37,710 can think of a few. But I mean, the one that jumps to mind is 1327 01:19:37,710 --> 01:19:38,280 it's easy. 1328 01:19:38,490 --> 01:19:40,200 Okay, John, any thoughts? 1329 01:19:40,230 --> 01:19:42,840 You can use your app any app right? You can use the app 1330 01:19:42,840 --> 01:19:45,810 you're already familiar with. Whereas if you 1331 01:19:46,140 --> 01:19:48,720 know what's different, what's the what's the difference 1332 01:19:48,720 --> 01:19:52,470 between listening to a podcast on YouTube or the YouTube app? I 1333 01:19:52,470 --> 01:19:55,470 don't care for a podcast app. What's the difference? 1334 01:19:56,400 --> 01:19:58,200 Well, you need to be premium first of all or else it's gonna 1335 01:19:58,200 --> 01:19:59,250 be a horrible experience. 1336 01:20:00,000 --> 01:20:04,950 What is difference? Between premium? What's the difference? 1337 01:20:05,370 --> 01:20:08,130 Yeah, I'm looking, I'm looking at the chat room, they're not 1338 01:20:08,130 --> 01:20:09,000 getting it either. 1339 01:20:09,990 --> 01:20:10,920 There's not a difference. 1340 01:20:10,980 --> 01:20:13,950 Well, honestly, what I would say is that there is really not much 1341 01:20:13,950 --> 01:20:14,400 of a difference. 1342 01:20:14,430 --> 01:20:22,140 Okay? Are you ready for it? Comments? Calm comments. That's, 1343 01:20:22,380 --> 01:20:27,810 that's the difference. I've been on big podcasts. And the 1344 01:20:27,810 --> 01:20:34,140 community is in the comments 1000s And 1000s of them comments 1345 01:20:36,600 --> 01:20:41,280 on my language, see, that's why I was I was sold in December, 1346 01:20:41,280 --> 01:20:44,850 whatever, when I started working. So I think that that is 1347 01:20:44,850 --> 01:20:48,210 actually a, I would like to see, I'm basically doing whatever I 1348 01:20:48,210 --> 01:20:51,060 can to make it as easy for apps to implement this because I 1349 01:20:51,060 --> 01:20:55,110 think it benefits every app to do this. Because the more we 1350 01:20:55,110 --> 01:20:58,740 kind of pool our user base, right, the more we're not doing 1351 01:20:58,770 --> 01:21:01,740 our own separate comments. I'm writing an app now, right? I'm 1352 01:21:01,740 --> 01:21:04,980 creating comments. If comments don't exist, I'm still gonna do 1353 01:21:04,980 --> 01:21:08,220 comments, they will just be locked in my app. And so we 1354 01:21:08,220 --> 01:21:11,130 haven't really gone anywhere. I think the beauty of this is that 1355 01:21:11,130 --> 01:21:14,970 we've actually defined a way that works to do it across apps. 1356 01:21:15,060 --> 01:21:18,900 And so I'm personally going to do whatever I can to keep making 1357 01:21:18,900 --> 01:21:21,030 that happen. Because I think it's actually a cool fall off. 1358 01:21:21,030 --> 01:21:21,780 Not that hard. I'm 1359 01:21:21,780 --> 01:21:27,660 saying is there's no difference. No other difference. That's, 1360 01:21:27,660 --> 01:21:31,110 that's the main difference. Yeah, I mean, when and now what 1361 01:21:31,110 --> 01:21:34,710 they do have, and this is an if you just want just look at a 1362 01:21:34,710 --> 01:21:38,910 successful model. They have the Super Chat. Now that is how you 1363 01:21:38,910 --> 01:21:42,240 can incorporate boost into the comments. They by the way, they 1364 01:21:42,240 --> 01:21:44,310 don't show up in the comments below, they show up in a 1365 01:21:44,310 --> 01:21:48,900 separate area on YouTube. So if we're truly worried about 1366 01:21:48,900 --> 01:21:52,530 YouTube coming in and stomping all over podcasting, well, let's 1367 01:21:52,530 --> 01:21:56,250 at least do what they do equally or better. And I think we can. 1368 01:21:57,450 --> 01:21:58,080 No, I think we 1369 01:21:58,080 --> 01:22:00,480 can do Yeah, absolute goodness said it better myself. That's 1370 01:22:00,510 --> 01:22:05,730 that's actually but the live chat issue and the booster grams 1371 01:22:05,730 --> 01:22:07,650 there. I think that's where it really comes into play. They 1372 01:22:07,650 --> 01:22:10,380 have the notion of, but actually don't have the notion of a live 1373 01:22:10,380 --> 01:22:12,780 replay like Twitch, where they show that but 1374 01:22:12,780 --> 01:22:16,380 if we if we just did a UX copy, we just did a UX comparison side 1375 01:22:16,380 --> 01:22:19,890 by side. Yeah. Any any study that just said, what are the 1376 01:22:19,890 --> 01:22:22,950 main features would say, Well, look, look what's going on here. 1377 01:22:23,130 --> 01:22:26,550 People seem to come back here to read, if there's replies to 1378 01:22:26,550 --> 01:22:28,860 their comments. I mean, 1379 01:22:29,850 --> 01:22:32,400 testers can go there. And instead of going to five 1380 01:22:32,400 --> 01:22:35,250 different apps, they can go to one place to see all the 1381 01:22:35,250 --> 01:22:37,710 feedback on you know, the entire community feedback for a given 1382 01:22:37,710 --> 01:22:40,890 episode, I think podcasters, you know, going back to the Creator 1383 01:22:40,890 --> 01:22:44,490 side of this, they have number one, they have control over what 1384 01:22:44,490 --> 01:22:46,710 happens at that endpoint where they don't have control over 1385 01:22:46,710 --> 01:22:49,920 that in Twitter or YouTube. Correct. But number two, they 1386 01:22:49,920 --> 01:22:52,350 have one place to go. So they kind of have their own, they can 1387 01:22:52,350 --> 01:22:56,190 use that channel. That's the ideal their own community. So I 1388 01:22:56,190 --> 01:22:58,470 think it's like and then and then this thing community 1389 01:22:58,470 --> 01:22:58,920 system, 1390 01:22:58,950 --> 01:23:03,450 and it be a community. Now, I understand all the apprehension 1391 01:23:03,450 --> 01:23:07,140 and and having apps or having comments in someone's app may 1392 01:23:07,140 --> 01:23:10,860 not and may not be for everybody. But that's literally 1393 01:23:10,860 --> 01:23:17,670 what people want. And end to end to have a an I think you're the 1394 01:23:17,670 --> 01:23:21,420 cast pod would agreed to own that, quote, unquote, to have 1395 01:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,060 that within in your control, certainly not to have someone 1396 01:23:24,060 --> 01:23:27,810 else determine what can or can't what comment can or cannot be 1397 01:23:27,870 --> 01:23:32,880 visible. That's what we're doing here. That's the whole point. 1398 01:23:33,930 --> 01:23:43,530 So, yeah, let's do it. Where are we done yet? Well, i i It's kind 1399 01:23:43,530 --> 01:23:46,380 of nice. It folds together because this this, you know, 1400 01:23:46,380 --> 01:23:50,250 it's apples to oranges to a degree YouTube to podcasting. 1401 01:23:50,250 --> 01:23:53,970 And I'm also just, I'm so sick of hearing about it, like do a 1402 01:23:53,970 --> 01:23:57,480 show me something already, or YouTube's eating our lunch or 1403 01:23:57,840 --> 01:24:01,920 the independent apps are dying? Well, no, I just I just 1404 01:24:01,920 --> 01:24:05,550 disagree. This is just a metric. But it's not the metric. 1405 01:24:06,750 --> 01:24:09,030 And it's what you said about incentives is really important. 1406 01:24:09,030 --> 01:24:12,420 I think there's a limited amount of push you guys can do and all 1407 01:24:12,420 --> 01:24:15,060 of us can do. I think some of its going to have to be pulled 1408 01:24:15,060 --> 01:24:18,450 like people are going to have to be excited. But an app developer 1409 01:24:18,450 --> 01:24:21,600 is going to have to be excited about adding this before any of 1410 01:24:21,600 --> 01:24:24,990 this stuff takes off. So maybe some of the apprehension is that 1411 01:24:24,990 --> 01:24:27,270 people just aren't that excited app developers aren't that 1412 01:24:27,270 --> 01:24:28,530 excited adding this feature. 1413 01:24:28,560 --> 01:24:31,800 Okay, just let's not all get our panties in a bunch when YouTube 1414 01:24:31,800 --> 01:24:34,980 has people going over there for certain things we don't have. 1415 01:24:35,160 --> 01:24:39,060 But I don't Well, I think it's a little more complicated than 1416 01:24:39,060 --> 01:24:43,260 that. Because Youtube, the the Super Chat. The Choose Super 1417 01:24:43,260 --> 01:24:46,110 Chat experience on YouTube really only exists on the 1418 01:24:46,110 --> 01:24:52,110 desktop. The mobile, the mobile side of that is a mess. The it's 1419 01:24:52,110 --> 01:24:55,620 only a good experience in YouTube when you're watching it 1420 01:24:55,620 --> 01:25:00,930 at a out on the web. And I think that's pretty Probably an 1421 01:25:00,930 --> 01:25:04,800 instinctive thing that people understand. And that's probably 1422 01:25:04,800 --> 01:25:10,950 why pod friend and pod verse and you know, impossibly curio 1423 01:25:10,950 --> 01:25:13,860 caster are the ones to implement it first. Because when you have 1424 01:25:13,890 --> 01:25:19,500 you have, you know, screen real estate to to really enjoy the 1425 01:25:19,500 --> 01:25:24,180 experience of having a chat and a video in one screen. Now I'm 1426 01:25:24,180 --> 01:25:26,130 not saying it's impossible with mobile, 1427 01:25:26,160 --> 01:25:29,310 but no, but I'm totally I'm totally in agreement. I think 1428 01:25:29,400 --> 01:25:32,460 that's why I've I've always been a fan of web apps in general for 1429 01:25:32,460 --> 01:25:33,450 this very reason. 1430 01:25:33,930 --> 01:25:39,570 But see that in and that's why that's, that's why probably the 1431 01:25:39,570 --> 01:25:43,770 adoption within the podcast app ecosystem is going to be slower 1432 01:25:43,770 --> 01:25:49,590 for comments than it will be on on the website, or maybe even on 1433 01:25:49,590 --> 01:25:54,000 YouTube proper is because YouTube, for all I mean, for all 1434 01:25:54,000 --> 01:25:57,090 it's, for all its growth on mobile and everything. Well, you 1435 01:25:57,090 --> 01:26:00,600 know, YouTube really is still the best experience on the web. 1436 01:26:00,630 --> 01:26:03,510 And so and that's not traditionally been the case for 1437 01:26:03,510 --> 01:26:07,380 podcasts. So there has to be like that's, that's where it 1438 01:26:07,380 --> 01:26:11,100 this is exciting, though, because that's where web, good 1439 01:26:11,130 --> 01:26:14,310 web apps like pod verse and Courier caster and pod friend 1440 01:26:14,670 --> 01:26:18,960 can really shine and take back some market share from the 1441 01:26:18,960 --> 01:26:20,310 mobile aspect of things. 1442 01:26:20,370 --> 01:26:25,440 It's such a such a small step from a woman wanting to listen 1443 01:26:25,440 --> 01:26:29,460 to a podcast to click on a link land on a web page versus 1444 01:26:29,490 --> 01:26:33,810 landing on a progressive web page. It's the smallest step 1445 01:26:33,810 --> 01:26:39,780 known to mankind. It's the same thing. So I need to do better. 1446 01:26:39,810 --> 01:26:43,800 And I need to be, you know what, here's some low hanging fruit 1447 01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,710 that I want to talk about. It folds into this. I was looking 1448 01:26:46,710 --> 01:26:50,370 for a web page for Korean the keeper podcast, because it's the 1449 01:26:50,370 --> 01:26:53,520 typical freedom controller page. You know, I love my freedom 1450 01:26:53,520 --> 01:26:58,590 controller. My wife's like, you know, she's in marketing 1451 01:26:58,590 --> 01:27:01,200 communications like, God is this piece of shit? 1452 01:27:01,260 --> 01:27:02,670 Oh, throw and Shay. 1453 01:27:02,700 --> 01:27:08,670 Yeah. Well, I took the I took the brunt of it, Dave. And so we 1454 01:27:08,670 --> 01:27:11,520 talked about on the grenade. Yeah. So we talked about on the 1455 01:27:11,520 --> 01:27:14,970 show. And of course, as it always happens, so much it was 1456 01:27:14,970 --> 01:27:17,100 actually Dave Jackson says, Well, you know what, why don't 1457 01:27:17,100 --> 01:27:20,850 you take a look at pod page, like, oh, pod page and pod page. 1458 01:27:20,850 --> 01:27:23,700 You know, you just I did it. I claimed my 1459 01:27:23,700 --> 01:27:27,360 feed. And, and it was easy, because your emails are out 1460 01:27:27,360 --> 01:27:27,810 there. That's 1461 01:27:27,810 --> 01:27:32,190 right. And I read a couple more offers at the same time. And I 1462 01:27:32,190 --> 01:27:37,080 liked it. And so you know, and just by reading the feed, and 1463 01:27:37,080 --> 01:27:38,700 you have a couple Yup, we actually have a lot of 1464 01:27:38,700 --> 01:27:42,210 configuration options, and boom, it pops up. And I'm like, wow, 1465 01:27:42,210 --> 01:27:45,780 that's a really decent website. That really looks pretty good. 1466 01:27:45,810 --> 01:27:48,270 Except and you can map your domain name to it and 1467 01:27:48,270 --> 01:27:53,310 everything. Except, yeah, gee, I mean, there's zero podcasting 1468 01:27:53,310 --> 01:27:59,640 2.0 features in it. No chapters, no transcripts, any of that. And 1469 01:27:59,670 --> 01:28:03,180 just to add insult to injury right below the you know, the 1470 01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:07,140 each individual episode, it has a, an Apple icon and a Spotify 1471 01:28:07,140 --> 01:28:14,610 icon. So here's an opportunity. Because right now, I hear a lot 1472 01:28:14,610 --> 01:28:19,530 of talk about the podcasters page, you know, and of course, 1473 01:28:19,530 --> 01:28:23,730 we all in the hosting companies all do a yeoman's job of giving 1474 01:28:23,730 --> 01:28:27,450 people free pages. But just think about this opportunity 1475 01:28:27,450 --> 01:28:30,480 that's just sitting out there. I mean, I'll use it. I'll use it 1476 01:28:30,480 --> 01:28:33,990 for all my shows, look at all of my podcast, except for no agenda 1477 01:28:33,990 --> 01:28:37,980 show which. But the show notes pages are just freedom 1478 01:28:37,980 --> 01:28:39,900 controller renderings of outlines. 1479 01:28:41,580 --> 01:28:45,240 Yeah, I mean, given James was interested over at pod news. And 1480 01:28:45,270 --> 01:28:48,660 I mean, the more structured data you have on an episode, you 1481 01:28:48,660 --> 01:28:52,380 could share those on the on the pod, the pod news generated page 1482 01:28:52,380 --> 01:28:53,310 as well. But I 1483 01:28:53,310 --> 01:28:55,530 just want to send a whole bunch of women to something they're 1484 01:28:55,560 --> 01:28:58,680 comfortable with. And they don't seem to want an app, they listen 1485 01:28:58,680 --> 01:29:02,400 to some of my shows on a on a web page. Why not have it be a 1486 01:29:02,400 --> 01:29:05,850 fantastic experience. And I have a lot more real estate to 1487 01:29:05,850 --> 01:29:08,940 explain how to how to fill up a wallet. 1488 01:29:09,480 --> 01:29:15,510 Pro tip. You can include custom CSS on the controller page and 1489 01:29:15,510 --> 01:29:16,770 change the entire way it looks. 1490 01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:21,150 Yeah, this CSS is kind of where it breaks down for me. 1491 01:29:22,830 --> 01:29:25,650 Yeah, this is your wish to do that. Back in the day. I 1492 01:29:25,650 --> 01:29:28,650 remember you had a competition on ninja. Oh, no agenda one time 1493 01:29:28,650 --> 01:29:32,160 of like, hey, I want everybody to submit custom CSS for the 1494 01:29:32,460 --> 01:29:37,260 O shaped pages, but also also the change words. That is 1495 01:29:37,260 --> 01:29:37,800 referred to 1496 01:29:38,880 --> 01:29:40,890 the Chrome extension. Yeah, Chrome extensions. 1497 01:29:41,340 --> 01:29:44,130 You can do crazy stuff with CSS nowadays. I'm sure you could. 1498 01:29:44,160 --> 01:29:47,160 Yeah, you can replace content. You can. Yeah, 1499 01:29:47,250 --> 01:29:52,380 I'm just a podcast. I can I can. I can look at I can look at my 1500 01:29:52,380 --> 01:29:55,650 feed and kind of figure out what's going on. That's the 1501 01:29:55,650 --> 01:29:56,130 level. 1502 01:29:57,180 --> 01:30:00,960 That pot page 2.0 ideas really, really Good because that is a 1503 01:30:00,960 --> 01:30:03,330 way it's like a very low friction way. It's not a whole 1504 01:30:03,330 --> 01:30:06,750 app that you have to install. Boom, here's an episode. And 1505 01:30:06,750 --> 01:30:09,390 it's lit up by all these new tags. 1506 01:30:09,570 --> 01:30:15,150 I mean, I'll be honest with you, I, I use breeze frequently. But 1507 01:30:15,150 --> 01:30:19,950 that's, I would say, for some reason, I can always count on 1508 01:30:19,950 --> 01:30:24,690 breeze to refresh the feed. And there I do have problems with my 1509 01:30:24,690 --> 01:30:27,930 browsers with caching and shit. Sometimes things, you know, 1510 01:30:27,930 --> 01:30:31,710 haven't updated when they should have so often, yeah, I'll use 1511 01:30:31,710 --> 01:30:34,920 breeze just to make sure I have the most recent version, then I 1512 01:30:34,920 --> 01:30:38,340 have to quit out of breeze because it gets my battery gets 1513 01:30:38,640 --> 01:30:41,880 to hold the whole phone and starts to heat up after after a 1514 01:30:41,880 --> 01:30:42,390 while 1515 01:30:42,420 --> 01:30:45,960 from the Chrome has always been such a pain when it comes to 1516 01:30:45,960 --> 01:30:50,190 caching like it. It is just when it comes to it's nasty. 1517 01:30:50,400 --> 01:30:54,240 But then I have now I use pod friend because it has a 1518 01:30:54,240 --> 01:30:59,910 beautiful. Yeah, it has a little list there of the episodes that 1519 01:30:59,910 --> 01:31:03,540 I have feeds that I subscribe to in chronological order. So I go 1520 01:31:03,540 --> 01:31:05,940 oh, there's that one. There's that one. So I know what's 1521 01:31:05,970 --> 01:31:09,840 updated. I list of little bullets and new that's horrible 1522 01:31:09,840 --> 01:31:14,640 to me. I like I'm a river of news guy, if anything. But then 1523 01:31:14,640 --> 01:31:19,260 curio caster just has all the features I want. And when I go 1524 01:31:19,260 --> 01:31:22,650 to my desktop, fire it up. It's there. My subscriptions, you 1525 01:31:22,650 --> 01:31:26,310 know, I can use it on any computer. I want. Mobile or big 1526 01:31:26,310 --> 01:31:30,750 screen. I have to say I find my even Twitter, I use the web app. 1527 01:31:30,750 --> 01:31:35,010 I don't use apps anymore. Oh, and I'm not just because I'm 1528 01:31:35,010 --> 01:31:40,080 Boomer adjacent. Douchebag in the cotton gin. You're ahead of 1529 01:31:40,080 --> 01:31:43,380 the game. Yeah. Cotton Gin in the chat rooms going through a 1530 01:31:43,380 --> 01:31:44,700 bunch of boomers in here. 1531 01:31:45,540 --> 01:31:50,100 Well, I mean, did you use mutt as your email client? Mean? 1532 01:31:50,790 --> 01:31:54,210 There's some truth. But okay, so what's happening right this 1533 01:31:54,210 --> 01:31:56,940 moment, and I think it's good to step back and get perspective 1534 01:31:56,940 --> 01:31:59,700 here. What's happening right at this moment is that a lot of 1535 01:31:59,700 --> 01:32:04,980 people are listening to the show on curio caster. Mm hmm. And the 1536 01:32:04,980 --> 01:32:09,150 chat should be showing up also included us. So yes, this, this 1537 01:32:09,150 --> 01:32:14,100 is super chat happening at the moment. And also from the 1538 01:32:14,100 --> 01:32:18,510 perspective of Steven B. If people are boosting through Kira 1539 01:32:18,510 --> 01:32:21,240 Castro while they're listening right now, he's getting a 1540 01:32:21,240 --> 01:32:25,500 percentage of those of those stats. That's your incentive to 1541 01:32:25,500 --> 01:32:28,050 do the adoption for a lot of these things. If you're on the 1542 01:32:28,050 --> 01:32:30,990 web platform. Now get really good stuff. 1543 01:32:31,049 --> 01:32:35,099 Unfortunately, with today's live experiment, it seems like the ln 1544 01:32:35,099 --> 01:32:38,339 pay node could not handle whatever was going on, or I'm, 1545 01:32:38,519 --> 01:32:42,119 I'm just not receiving payments for some reason. But we did get 1546 01:32:42,809 --> 01:32:49,709 the 10,034 from Darren and he came in with a second 133 33,333 1547 01:32:49,709 --> 01:32:52,889 He says he still had some SATs leftover from random thoughts, 1548 01:32:52,979 --> 01:32:57,899 unrelenting, and planet rage. And this is our vague he says, 1549 01:32:58,289 --> 01:32:58,619 Did you 1550 01:32:58,620 --> 01:33:03,300 get my test boost earlier? Nope. It's it it went through now. 1551 01:33:03,360 --> 01:33:05,130 Then. videos from CAST Matic it may 1552 01:33:05,130 --> 01:33:07,830 be the exorbitant fees I have said on the nodes. 1553 01:33:09,720 --> 01:33:13,620 Spencer, it's like do it like Yeah, I told you so. 1554 01:33:14,520 --> 01:33:18,750 Well, they shouldn't fail. Yeah, true. I got. I have lots of 1555 01:33:18,750 --> 01:33:20,070 routes. It shouldn't fail. 1556 01:33:20,160 --> 01:33:22,350 But I got confetti on my side. Someone's going through. 1557 01:33:22,710 --> 01:33:23,280 Okay. 1558 01:33:24,450 --> 01:33:28,590 I don't know. I don't know. But oh, I know what Yeah. And it was 1559 01:33:28,590 --> 01:33:29,400 Brahmanism. Also, 1560 01:33:29,400 --> 01:33:35,010 my home IP also wound up on the spam house list or whatever. I 1561 01:33:35,010 --> 01:33:39,150 don't know how that happened. Oh, crap. This. All of a sudden, 1562 01:33:39,150 --> 01:33:41,010 I couldn't get to my my mail server. 1563 01:33:41,550 --> 01:33:44,340 I've got new internet. I'm on one gig right now, baby. 1564 01:33:44,820 --> 01:33:49,590 I can tell you sounds so much better way to live. Yes. sounds 1565 01:33:49,590 --> 01:33:50,580 so much better. 1566 01:33:50,820 --> 01:33:51,990 Hey, do we want to thank people? 1567 01:33:52,230 --> 01:33:55,620 Yeah, yeah. Wow, an hour and a half. This has been this has 1568 01:33:55,620 --> 01:33:59,160 been a very intense board meeting. Gentlemen, I enjoyed 1569 01:33:59,160 --> 01:34:02,940 this trip. Hold on a second. Let me just knock off the official 1570 01:34:02,940 --> 01:34:06,810 part. Let's, let's thank some people who supported the not 1571 01:34:06,810 --> 01:34:09,990 just the podcast, but that there's my dog, but the project. 1572 01:34:10,560 --> 01:34:15,180 So when you support us, you're supporting the work. Certainly 1573 01:34:15,180 --> 01:34:17,550 the work Dave's doing you are supporting, although not Dave 1574 01:34:17,550 --> 01:34:21,540 not getting any money. But we're getting SATs one way or the 1575 01:34:21,540 --> 01:34:25,410 other. But you're really helping the machinery run and and giving 1576 01:34:25,410 --> 01:34:30,870 us a bit of runway to continue to grow as we expect to and you 1577 01:34:30,870 --> 01:34:34,140 can do that. Well, obviously, anyone who's contributing their 1578 01:34:34,140 --> 01:34:37,950 time or talent is helping right off the bat. And that's how 1579 01:34:37,950 --> 01:34:41,340 value for value should work. Having the treasure angle is 1580 01:34:41,340 --> 01:34:44,970 very helpful to keep it running. And we'd like booster grams we'd 1581 01:34:44,970 --> 01:34:48,240 like Satoshis because we just poured those. 1582 01:34:49,320 --> 01:34:51,270 Yes, numbers go up. 1583 01:34:52,770 --> 01:34:53,520 Not today. 1584 01:34:54,660 --> 01:34:59,400 So do you have a node? John, that we can get a split of this 1585 01:34:59,400 --> 01:34:59,880 episode? 1586 01:35:01,050 --> 01:35:04,560 Oh, yeah, I have one of those cute Bitcoin machines. I had to 1587 01:35:04,560 --> 01:35:08,520 bug the guy incessantly in order for him to ship it. 1588 01:35:09,030 --> 01:35:12,360 Oh, okay, I did work. Well, you can get payments and stuff. I 1589 01:35:12,360 --> 01:35:12,570 think 1590 01:35:12,570 --> 01:35:16,710 so. Yeah, I have a mini pub project. I have a value block in 1591 01:35:16,710 --> 01:35:19,680 there. I don't if you want to. I'll send you a block that you 1592 01:35:19,680 --> 01:35:21,600 could use though for this one. Yep. Okay, cool. 1593 01:35:21,600 --> 01:35:24,720 Send it to me so I can put it right in the feed before we 1594 01:35:24,720 --> 01:35:25,260 publish 1595 01:35:26,010 --> 01:35:32,760 a scene. So right off the bat. RSS calm and you want to guess 1596 01:35:33,540 --> 01:35:34,740 RSS calm? 1597 01:35:35,130 --> 01:35:35,970 Yeah, though. 1598 01:35:36,000 --> 01:35:38,880 They're they're big supporters. Do I need to have my hand on the 1599 01:35:38,880 --> 01:35:39,300 button? 1600 01:35:39,780 --> 01:35:42,390 Oh, you better you better be hovering. Okay. I'm hovering 1601 01:35:43,050 --> 01:35:45,690 $1,000 Whoa. 1602 01:35:45,720 --> 01:35:46,860 Holy crap. 1603 01:35:47,940 --> 01:35:51,750 Shot Carla 20 blades on I am Paula. 1604 01:35:52,140 --> 01:35:55,440 That's what I'm talking about. Saying the Dave Sorry. No 1605 01:35:55,440 --> 01:35:56,580 sad puppies today. 1606 01:35:56,610 --> 01:35:58,560 No good work. No 1607 01:35:58,560 --> 01:36:04,380 Go podcasting. 2.0 that is, 1608 01:36:04,710 --> 01:36:11,310 I got to let one out. It wasn't really a boost, but it just 1609 01:36:11,310 --> 01:36:12,120 makes me feel good. 1610 01:36:13,980 --> 01:36:17,400 Alberto, just really appreciate it. They've been helping us 1611 01:36:17,430 --> 01:36:22,380 since early early days. Yeah. And always very responsive in 1612 01:36:22,620 --> 01:36:24,300 the master Dante. They'll jump in there when? 1613 01:36:24,510 --> 01:36:27,120 And Dan was an implementing namespace. 1614 01:36:27,900 --> 01:36:35,070 Yeah, straight up. Yep. Thank you guys. We got $100 from Les. 1615 01:36:35,340 --> 01:36:39,900 Les Barnes. Li he no note. Well, thank you. Thank you for that. 1616 01:36:40,320 --> 01:36:49,110 You. See $7.77 from Charles sale. No note. Thank you, Joe. 1617 01:36:49,980 --> 01:36:53,280 That's our that's our PayPals we get some boosts we get. 1618 01:36:53,730 --> 01:36:57,060 So literally, literally to paper towels. Yeah, we have 1619 01:36:57,060 --> 01:37:00,540 transition. we've transitioned into the lower valued Satoshi 1620 01:37:00,540 --> 01:37:01,080 world. 1621 01:37:01,980 --> 01:37:05,850 Yeah, it's like, it's like two or three paper towels and 40 You 1622 01:37:05,850 --> 01:37:12,690 know, booster grams. Let's see anonymous, through breeze. 7777 1623 01:37:12,690 --> 01:37:14,640 SATs says heavenly boost. 1624 01:37:14,879 --> 01:37:19,559 Ooh, where's my heavenly? Do we have a heavenly boost? 1625 01:37:19,680 --> 01:37:25,920 I don't know the heavenly boost. Let's see. Chad Farah says 3333 1626 01:37:25,950 --> 01:37:28,590 through Fountaine. He says with all that grunting from Dave I 1627 01:37:28,590 --> 01:37:33,330 thought I was listening to Adam and John no agenda. A lot last 1628 01:37:33,330 --> 01:37:33,540 week? 1629 01:37:33,840 --> 01:37:41,760 I don't know. I guess I didn't notice it darling. See, probably 1630 01:37:41,760 --> 01:37:42,570 aggravating you. 1631 01:37:43,680 --> 01:37:49,530 Well, this must be Chad Pharaoh says another 3333 And he says I 1632 01:37:49,530 --> 01:37:52,020 don't like it when mommy and daddy fight. Maybe we're 1633 01:37:52,020 --> 01:37:53,700 fighting at the time. We never 1634 01:37:53,700 --> 01:37:57,450 fighting. This is how to fight what you know what it is, is 1635 01:37:57,450 --> 01:38:00,840 people aren't used to honesty to hearing people have an honest 1636 01:38:00,840 --> 01:38:03,750 conversation because everything is so fake in the mainstream and 1637 01:38:03,750 --> 01:38:05,040 on a lot of podcasts 1638 01:38:05,640 --> 01:38:10,200 with if if Chad doesn't like, intense discussion, he probably 1639 01:38:10,260 --> 01:38:13,770 bailed out like 30 minutes ago. This has been this has been the 1640 01:38:13,770 --> 01:38:17,640 intense board meeting. Cast peatland. 3300 SATs through 1641 01:38:17,640 --> 01:38:19,140 fountain at CES thanks for the show. 1642 01:38:19,530 --> 01:38:22,020 Thank you. Yeah, boost. 1643 01:38:23,250 --> 01:38:26,880 Marry Oscar marry one on one sets really like this idea of 1644 01:38:26,910 --> 01:38:31,110 dated news based episodes, especially if tied into chapters 1645 01:38:31,110 --> 01:38:33,420 so that apps can mark which chapters have been played and 1646 01:38:33,420 --> 01:38:35,730 listeners can just carry on from where they were. Yeah, that 1647 01:38:35,730 --> 01:38:43,200 was for spooler. Yeah. You know, I heard the bogs on pod land. I 1648 01:38:43,200 --> 01:38:45,960 heard that part. And he was saying, Yeah, we're really late. 1649 01:38:45,960 --> 01:38:48,360 And he was just talking about pod ping. Like, it was a whole 1650 01:38:48,360 --> 01:38:48,810 thing. 1651 01:38:49,440 --> 01:38:50,730 Yeah, yeah, it is. 1652 01:38:50,760 --> 01:38:55,260 It is a thing. But yeah, but you need to recognize that no one's 1653 01:38:55,260 --> 01:38:58,740 jumping up. And you know, and, and Cridland, just say no, 1654 01:38:58,740 --> 01:39:01,050 you're going to support this. This is a you know, and 1655 01:39:01,080 --> 01:39:05,070 podcasting via the namespace. It's now part of the discussion. 1656 01:39:05,730 --> 01:39:09,540 Yeah, it's it's like it's like, cemented it's in there. I mean, 1657 01:39:09,540 --> 01:39:12,090 we're not going anywhere. We're only going one way. 1658 01:39:12,570 --> 01:39:14,790 What do you call that? Like a it's not a house word. What 1659 01:39:14,820 --> 01:39:17,370 household name is like a household word now within the 1660 01:39:17,370 --> 01:39:19,470 podcast industry? Yeah. Like 1661 01:39:19,500 --> 01:39:22,770 whatever that is. Whatever the pod is YouTube part of the 1662 01:39:22,800 --> 01:39:26,310 Google part of the podcast industry. No. 1663 01:39:27,540 --> 01:39:32,640 Never. Patrick Erlich Elric. Patrick Ulrich said through 1664 01:39:32,640 --> 01:39:36,330 fountain he said 500 SATs and he said El Salvador for all 1665 01:39:38,070 --> 01:39:39,480 ready to move. 1666 01:39:39,930 --> 01:39:45,780 Did you see that city in Italy? That's now big is no 1667 01:39:45,780 --> 01:39:48,480 Switzerland, Switzerland, Switzerland. Lugano? 1668 01:39:49,620 --> 01:39:52,650 Yeah, yeah, it's it's it's that's that's the 1669 01:39:52,800 --> 01:39:55,200 that's the way to go. You know, the states in America can do 1670 01:39:55,200 --> 01:39:58,740 that too. They can they can make their own money. 1671 01:39:59,700 --> 01:40:05,100 texts. First. Yeah, just saying sir Bill 5000 SATs do fountain 1672 01:40:05,100 --> 01:40:09,480 he says for the marketing budget. Hey, thank you. Dog here 1673 01:40:09,480 --> 01:40:14,550 it no here. Yes. Tommy. John's BRT gave us 49,000 SATs do 1674 01:40:14,550 --> 01:40:18,630 fountain he says Theramin boost I gotta have more Theramin Oh 1675 01:40:18,630 --> 01:40:21,120 crap. We have a Theramin Yeah, we 1676 01:40:21,119 --> 01:40:26,879 do think we do let's see, I do a Theramin boost I think 1677 01:40:39,330 --> 01:40:42,180 never enough hands. I'm playing with Theramin and I hit the 1678 01:40:42,180 --> 01:40:43,740 jingle and I needed an extra hand. 1679 01:40:45,000 --> 01:40:49,200 Got Sikora? Give us 5150 But Oh I wonder if that's a Van Halen 1680 01:40:49,200 --> 01:40:49,290 but 1681 01:40:49,320 --> 01:40:52,140 of course it has to be must be does he say anything? 1682 01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:55,800 He says first time boost. been loving the show and appreciate 1683 01:40:55,800 --> 01:40:58,320 all the information and hard work you guys do for podcasting. 1684 01:40:58,590 --> 01:41:03,150 My podcast is talking beards talking beards calm. Well, I 1685 01:41:03,150 --> 01:41:10,260 think we should bring back the now that he boosted first ties, 1686 01:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,110 fragmented Yeah, got to be defragmented 1687 01:41:13,500 --> 01:41:19,800 I think in that drips kid. Probably 11 to see the big row 1688 01:41:19,800 --> 01:41:26,940 of ones 1111 to see but what is this? 11,111 through breeze nice 1689 01:41:26,940 --> 01:41:28,500 anonymous just as cheers. 1690 01:41:29,730 --> 01:41:32,850 Chad F in the chat room says you guys had a fake fight on the 1691 01:41:32,850 --> 01:41:36,270 last episode. Oh yeah, you got us. You got us. It was a fake 1692 01:41:36,270 --> 01:41:37,410 fight. Fake. 1693 01:41:37,440 --> 01:41:38,430 They're all fake. They're 1694 01:41:38,880 --> 01:41:41,070 all legit. Well, that's why we fight. 1695 01:41:41,550 --> 01:41:45,930 Oh, Chad. Speak of the devil give us 101 says he says this is 1696 01:41:45,930 --> 01:41:47,370 some next level shit. 1697 01:41:48,510 --> 01:41:50,880 Okay, okay, yeah. 1698 01:41:50,909 --> 01:41:55,049 Alrighty then. Martin through pod friend gave us 100 SATs. He 1699 01:41:55,049 --> 01:42:00,119 says boost test. You can see when people are doing stuff 1700 01:42:02,459 --> 01:42:08,489 Krimson outwell gave us 6666 That's a demon boost through 1701 01:42:08,489 --> 01:42:12,539 breeze. Oh, steam avatar name. Poli. 1702 01:42:12,600 --> 01:42:19,290 I made a mistake. What was it? I'm seeing Steven B. He says the 1703 01:42:19,290 --> 01:42:22,020 reason why Adams not seeing any of the live boosts is because 1704 01:42:22,020 --> 01:42:24,810 it's boosted rev monitor isn't in the value block. 1705 01:42:25,980 --> 01:42:26,850 Oh, 1706 01:42:26,879 --> 01:42:32,969 how come that didn't copy over? Well, so I'm sorry, then that is 1707 01:42:32,999 --> 01:42:38,159 operator failure. And I take back everything I said. And 1708 01:42:38,159 --> 01:42:40,439 that's too bad. Because otherwise you would have had a 1709 01:42:40,439 --> 01:42:45,209 lot more. A lot more puce in the show. 1710 01:42:45,900 --> 01:42:48,960 Bomber. Yeah. There's always next week. Yeah. Okay. All 1711 01:42:48,960 --> 01:42:54,540 right. Another lesson learned. Another 6666 Anonymous three 1712 01:42:54,540 --> 01:42:59,010 breeze and he says love my breeze. We love racing. You do? 1713 01:42:59,940 --> 01:43:04,260 That's right. net net. And it's 33 cents and you just as testing 1714 01:43:05,040 --> 01:43:07,140 just received that move 1715 01:43:09,150 --> 01:43:10,950 33 cents get out of town. 1716 01:43:12,210 --> 01:43:16,920 In the chat room kicker. For the mere mortals podcast gave us 1717 01:43:16,920 --> 01:43:18,330 2222 row of ducks. 1718 01:43:18,360 --> 01:43:22,080 Yeah, yeah. Rubber Ducks. 1719 01:43:24,270 --> 01:43:27,570 He says if you're going to start going live, we need the details. 1720 01:43:27,810 --> 01:43:30,210 What's the general start time and if I donate enough sets will 1721 01:43:30,210 --> 01:43:33,660 you make it later? So I don't have to wake up at an ungodly 1722 01:43:33,690 --> 01:43:36,420 hour. Oh, that's right. Because in Australia, can I get a low 1723 01:43:36,420 --> 01:43:42,900 boost as well please add them and now as the French say it is 1724 01:43:42,900 --> 01:43:44,700 timeful low boost 1725 01:43:45,060 --> 01:43:48,480 that now I understand why I was getting booster grams from 1726 01:43:48,480 --> 01:43:55,440 Darren because he was doing it on breeze on episode 75 or 76 so 1727 01:43:55,440 --> 01:43:59,700 that is in the split. Okay, Mystery solved. Gotcha. I'm 1728 01:43:59,700 --> 01:44:01,560 pissed at myself now. Am it 1729 01:44:02,700 --> 01:44:07,410 get another test boost from Martin and 400 SAS and then we 1730 01:44:07,410 --> 01:44:12,780 get a user this is Sir Harry pilgrim okay, I'm not gonna read 1731 01:44:12,780 --> 01:44:17,250 out this ungodly long number here. He said 3569 says to found 1732 01:44:17,250 --> 01:44:19,710 he says Sir Harry pilgrim boosting my birthday a couple of 1733 01:44:19,710 --> 01:44:21,600 days late fifth of March boost 1734 01:44:21,630 --> 01:44:24,360 Yes, baby boost boost. 1735 01:44:26,370 --> 01:44:30,330 Again, this looks like well, I don't can't tell if this. These 1736 01:44:30,330 --> 01:44:32,910 are just numbers. You guys you got to put a name in there. User 1737 01:44:32,910 --> 01:44:39,360 717454 bla bla bla bla bla gave us 1000 SATs he says boost from 1738 01:44:39,360 --> 01:44:46,260 recovered podcast podcasting hope since 2,007x covered 1739 01:44:46,260 --> 01:44:47,430 podcast How you doing? 1740 01:44:49,140 --> 01:44:53,100 That was it. That was it? Well, and then we have our monthly 1741 01:44:53,970 --> 01:44:56,250 Oh, no, no, no, no, no, no, that was that was it for that 1742 01:44:56,250 --> 01:44:58,860 message. Well, this is from Adam. Is that you? 1743 01:44:59,669 --> 01:45:00,869 I don't know. What did I say? 1744 01:45:01,350 --> 01:45:02,430 He said Nice to meet you. 1745 01:45:03,000 --> 01:45:08,730 Ah, obvious demo booster gram demo demo 1746 01:45:11,190 --> 01:45:14,100 so don't let the pastor know that you're self boosting as you 1747 01:45:14,100 --> 01:45:20,640 get to talking to Krimson Algol 6666 again through brazenly says 1748 01:45:20,640 --> 01:45:24,330 booster grams are now 128 characters in breeze Yay. Oh 1749 01:45:24,330 --> 01:45:25,500 that's nice 1750 01:45:31,710 --> 01:45:37,260 20,000 sets through fountain from Stephen North port Florida. 1751 01:45:37,260 --> 01:45:41,010 Keep doing what you're doing. Here's a boost for humanity 1752 01:45:41,100 --> 01:45:41,730 boost. 1753 01:45:41,820 --> 01:45:49,920 Oh, we need a boost for humanity. Boost Okay. All in the 1754 01:45:49,920 --> 01:45:50,460 works. 1755 01:45:51,570 --> 01:45:55,980 Nomad Joe 2000 sets he says live sounds awesome. 1756 01:45:56,610 --> 01:45:59,790 We just did he just said that. Oh, no, that was from Spencer's 1757 01:45:59,790 --> 01:46:00,690 sweet. Yeah. 1758 01:46:02,130 --> 01:46:07,680 Oops, Toshi stream, send us 5552 sets through fountain and he 1759 01:46:07,680 --> 01:46:13,470 says in terms of I like I like these very, you know, the 1760 01:46:14,160 --> 01:46:18,180 conversational boost. In terms of amount of boost. Dave Jones 1761 01:46:18,180 --> 01:46:20,850 has second place for two Satoshis dot stream podcast. 1762 01:46:21,000 --> 01:46:25,290 Adam takes eighth place. What that Dave is the same Dave to 1763 01:46:25,320 --> 01:46:26,760 its first place for Dave. 1764 01:46:27,270 --> 01:46:34,050 Boom. I'm a loser. But is that is that is that in amount or 1765 01:46:34,050 --> 01:46:34,860 frequency? 1766 01:46:35,310 --> 01:46:39,180 Both? know you've talked about your eighth place? Yeah, that 1767 01:46:39,180 --> 01:46:39,750 was a mount. 1768 01:46:40,169 --> 01:46:43,229 Okay. But I think I spend a lot of boosts. 1769 01:46:44,430 --> 01:46:49,440 One thing is one thing is very is certain. I am the master of 1770 01:46:49,440 --> 01:46:51,300 boosting. I clearly I give 1771 01:46:51,300 --> 01:46:55,770 up so people need to support us with more so that because Dave 1772 01:46:55,770 --> 01:46:59,970 is clearly funding the entire network since day 1773 01:46:59,970 --> 01:47:02,880 one. I might. Yes. I mean days money. i 1774 01:47:03,240 --> 01:47:06,360 It's it does feel like that a little bit and I'm a bit 1775 01:47:06,360 --> 01:47:09,690 concerned about you. Do we need to have a booster vention? 1776 01:47:11,460 --> 01:47:14,700 Booster Vinted must have downregulated 1777 01:47:14,730 --> 01:47:17,310 Oh, you mean Melissa beat you over the head and said what? 1778 01:47:18,060 --> 01:47:19,680 What are all these charges? 1779 01:47:20,760 --> 01:47:22,890 I prefer to say that I did it to myself. 1780 01:47:26,430 --> 01:47:30,660 To you David asked me said how many posts? Do you really said? 1781 01:47:32,280 --> 01:47:35,910 Circular baby? I don't know. Moving around internet tokens? 1782 01:47:35,910 --> 01:47:39,330 Yes, exactly. It's internet money. Exactly. 1783 01:47:40,050 --> 01:47:45,240 Mike Caden, he have red circle centers. 2222. Sets road ducks. 1784 01:47:45,600 --> 01:47:49,950 He says. He says premature ejaculation. 1785 01:47:56,070 --> 01:47:57,090 That's hilarious. 1786 01:47:57,300 --> 01:48:00,840 And Niall sin is 101 He says great comment. 1787 01:48:01,560 --> 01:48:04,860 Okay. All right. Thank you. We aim to please. 1788 01:48:05,190 --> 01:48:09,090 Yes, yes. I thought it was too. Yeah. Ron pleau. Now, can 1789 01:48:09,090 --> 01:48:12,540 I just say something? If we if we ever implement the timelines, 1790 01:48:13,110 --> 01:48:16,980 then you know, you could in your interface, click on that. And it 1791 01:48:16,980 --> 01:48:19,800 would say, Oh, this is exactly where he boosted grabbed and we 1792 01:48:19,800 --> 01:48:21,390 would know what he was talking about. 1793 01:48:21,930 --> 01:48:25,770 We'll see we had this good. We had such an excellent idea of 1794 01:48:25,770 --> 01:48:28,920 putting a link to this timestamp where you can just click on it 1795 01:48:28,920 --> 01:48:32,400 and listen to it. Does that work? It does it absolutely does 1796 01:48:32,400 --> 01:48:36,300 work. Well. I'm too lazy to actually do it. So 1797 01:48:36,570 --> 01:48:37,980 is that in heli pad two? 1798 01:48:40,170 --> 01:48:43,200 Oh, no, it's not exposed in Hello, Pat. That's a good idea. 1799 01:48:43,230 --> 01:48:44,190 I should expose that. 1800 01:48:45,720 --> 01:48:52,260 expose it Dave Jones exposure? Yeah. As That's called being a 1801 01:48:52,260 --> 01:48:55,620 podcaster this is this is the Dave That's the podcaster who is 1802 01:48:55,650 --> 01:48:57,210 a good podcaster 1803 01:48:57,960 --> 01:49:03,540 Ron ploof send us 211,200 sang 1804 01:49:04,560 --> 01:49:07,260 Holy moly. I'm gonna roll out the big baller for a 1805 01:49:08,340 --> 01:49:12,120 shot Carla 20 blades on I am Paula. 1806 01:49:12,780 --> 01:49:18,720 Boost. A hunt this a 100x Rush boost as a Thanks to Dave for 1807 01:49:18,720 --> 01:49:19,860 helping me here my first 1808 01:49:19,860 --> 01:49:21,570 few Oh, 1809 01:49:22,710 --> 01:49:26,100 griddle cakes radio podcast exploring the lost art of audio 1810 01:49:26,100 --> 01:49:28,200 storytelling since 2005. 1811 01:49:28,590 --> 01:49:30,930 griddle cakes lost audio podcast 1812 01:49:31,260 --> 01:49:33,390 griddle cakes radio podcast. 1813 01:49:33,420 --> 01:49:36,090 Oh, I know griddle cakes. I think they've been around 1814 01:49:36,090 --> 01:49:36,810 forever. 1815 01:49:37,200 --> 01:49:38,760 Ron please do you know rounds. 1816 01:49:39,360 --> 01:49:44,070 I know his his brother David. David. Okay. Luke wasn't a 1817 01:49:44,070 --> 01:49:49,950 speechwriter for Obama. No. He's a different guy. Great. Okay. 1818 01:49:49,980 --> 01:49:51,780 Cakes radio. Sounds very familiar to me. 1819 01:49:52,530 --> 01:49:54,300 Thank you for the Yes, thank 1820 01:49:54,300 --> 01:49:56,670 you so much for that support. Killer. 1821 01:49:57,570 --> 01:50:01,020 Floridian slips and it's 5000 SATs. To found and then he says 1822 01:50:01,260 --> 01:50:03,810 thanks for assisting on podcast index dot social Dave 1823 01:50:03,870 --> 01:50:06,660 boost yo, boost boost boost boost 1824 01:50:06,930 --> 01:50:14,190 boost see three more. Nicholas bhuntar been I'm going to this 1825 01:50:14,190 --> 01:50:16,170 get a little dots over the top of the use I'm going to say 1826 01:50:16,170 --> 01:50:20,280 booster booster. Nicholas bhuntar PS bar is gone gunta 1827 01:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,420 1000 SATs through breeze and he says boosting for podcasting 2.0 1828 01:50:24,420 --> 01:50:24,930 heart. 1829 01:50:25,290 --> 01:50:28,020 Ah fat streaming back atcha 1830 01:50:28,170 --> 01:50:33,720 We love you too. Sir Doug sent 4400 sets through fountain he 1831 01:50:33,720 --> 01:50:34,500 says boobs 1832 01:50:34,530 --> 01:50:35,160 yo yo 1833 01:50:37,980 --> 01:50:41,070 Yep, we're at the end of the end of the day louder. The comics 1834 01:50:41,070 --> 01:50:45,930 through blogger donation, comic strip blogger 10,033 sets 1835 01:50:46,080 --> 01:50:48,960 through pod friend and he says Hi, Dave and Adam, thank you for 1836 01:50:48,960 --> 01:50:51,300 your service to podcasting. And if your listeners want to hear 1837 01:50:51,300 --> 01:50:54,450 latest news about artificial intelligence, they're invited to 1838 01:50:54,450 --> 01:50:58,050 listen to AI cooking. bi weekly podcast spoken by Gregory 1839 01:50:58,050 --> 01:51:00,150 William Forsythe Foreman from kin, yo. 1840 01:51:00,930 --> 01:51:03,510 Yo. Comics your blogger 1841 01:51:04,260 --> 01:51:10,950 gets monthly. Cameron rose give us $25 Jeremy new $5 pod verse 1842 01:51:10,980 --> 01:51:17,670 $50. Mitch Downey $10 Chris Chara Barak $10, Terry Keller, 1843 01:51:17,670 --> 01:51:23,580 $5. And I added this little bit in here that I wanted to say if 1844 01:51:23,580 --> 01:51:29,400 you have any ability to donate anything extra, you know, it 1845 01:51:29,400 --> 01:51:33,180 would be good to go in and donate to things like in a tube 1846 01:51:34,050 --> 01:51:37,080 that Alex is running out of his own pocket and podcast 1847 01:51:37,080 --> 01:51:41,070 social.org from John running it stuff out of his own pocket. 1848 01:51:42,300 --> 01:51:46,980 It's just I would I would like to just make it make it clear 1849 01:51:46,980 --> 01:51:48,750 that there's a lot of people will pay for stuff out of their 1850 01:51:48,750 --> 01:51:52,230 own pocket. And it's always good to support them. You know, if 1851 01:51:52,230 --> 01:51:54,870 you can what is it? 1852 01:51:54,900 --> 01:51:56,730 What are they? What a passionate plea Dave? 1853 01:51:57,270 --> 01:52:03,270 Thank you. It's Chuck Chara Barak. Yes. Yes, sorry. I have 1854 01:52:03,270 --> 01:52:09,480 to say, go for it. Nice. 1855 01:52:10,080 --> 01:52:12,750 I considered muting it but I'm like now why let a good sneeze 1856 01:52:12,750 --> 01:52:13,560 go to waste. 1857 01:52:13,830 --> 01:52:16,230 You had a you had a nice new microphone and you just 1858 01:52:16,230 --> 01:52:16,650 destroyed 1859 01:52:18,060 --> 01:52:22,680 John Spurlock man, you are a gem and and we're very, very 1860 01:52:22,710 --> 01:52:25,470 fortunate and blessed to have you inside the group. And I 1861 01:52:25,470 --> 01:52:29,430 really, really enjoyed sparring with Spurlock a bit today. 1862 01:52:29,610 --> 01:52:34,500 sparring with Spurlock. I think it's exciting. I think. I think 1863 01:52:34,920 --> 01:52:36,840 one of the cool things about this community is that 1864 01:52:36,840 --> 01:52:39,390 everyone's I think what Dave said a while ago is that we're 1865 01:52:39,390 --> 01:52:41,340 here because we're passionate about it, right? We're here 1866 01:52:41,340 --> 01:52:46,200 because we have to be here. No one's paying us to be here. So I 1867 01:52:46,200 --> 01:52:48,240 think it's gonna be really interesting to see what happens 1868 01:52:48,240 --> 01:52:52,050 over the next few months. And, you know, I, I appreciate all 1869 01:52:52,050 --> 01:52:53,760 you guys do and keep going. 1870 01:52:53,970 --> 01:52:56,670 Yeah. And do you want do you want to just wrap it up a bit 1871 01:52:56,670 --> 01:53:01,650 with your podcast social.org, just so we can send 1872 01:53:01,650 --> 01:53:04,020 people there when listening to this podcast is probably already 1873 01:53:04,020 --> 01:53:06,360 familiar. But I would, I would basically say the podcast 1874 01:53:06,360 --> 01:53:10,590 social.org site is just a quick overview site for everyone in 1875 01:53:10,590 --> 01:53:13,650 the podcasting ecosystem to learn about the new tag, now 1876 01:53:13,650 --> 01:53:16,200 that it's going to be in the next phase. So now's the time to 1877 01:53:16,200 --> 01:53:20,160 get hyped and excited about it. And then for app developers, 1878 01:53:20,160 --> 01:53:23,100 there's a few components. So if you want to read activity pub 1879 01:53:23,100 --> 01:53:27,000 comments, there's an NPM package called thread cap out there 1880 01:53:27,000 --> 01:53:30,270 that's free to use open source. And then if you're an app that 1881 01:53:30,270 --> 01:53:32,280 wants to do that nice integration that we're talking 1882 01:53:32,280 --> 01:53:35,550 about from the mobile app, you're going to need to have a 1883 01:53:35,550 --> 01:53:39,120 server. So I have an open source server component that basically 1884 01:53:39,120 --> 01:53:42,930 you can use to do that. And that's your mini mini. Yeah, 1885 01:53:43,230 --> 01:53:43,590 yep. 1886 01:53:44,760 --> 01:53:48,120 Can you John, can you send me an hour? We talked about this on 1887 01:53:48,120 --> 01:53:52,050 the dev meeting, but I think Martin may have forgotten. Can 1888 01:53:52,050 --> 01:53:56,580 you send me like a like a sample output a thread cap? Because I'm 1889 01:53:56,850 --> 01:53:59,820 importing it to PHP. And I really just Can I ask 1890 01:53:59,850 --> 01:54:01,260 what thread cap is 1891 01:54:02,490 --> 01:54:05,760 it's just a way to take a snapshot of an activity pub 1892 01:54:05,910 --> 01:54:08,790 Convo, right. So you like you take the route comment, and then 1893 01:54:08,790 --> 01:54:11,340 some program needs to go and enumerate Oh, what are the 1894 01:54:11,340 --> 01:54:14,790 replies? What are the replies to that reply? You get it and then 1895 01:54:14,790 --> 01:54:18,330 so and then at the end, you're just left with like a threaded, 1896 01:54:18,630 --> 01:54:22,020 Jason object, basically. So it makes people that are used to 1897 01:54:22,020 --> 01:54:25,050 just dealing with like a single json file hopefully makes a 1898 01:54:25,050 --> 01:54:28,380 little easier to integrate. Its activity Pub is not that hard to 1899 01:54:28,380 --> 01:54:32,430 use. But it's a little messy because like RSS, like everyone 1900 01:54:32,430 --> 01:54:35,400 does things a little differently. So REDCap kind of 1901 01:54:36,120 --> 01:54:38,010 papers over some of that stuff. Yeah. 1902 01:54:38,490 --> 01:54:41,790 Can you send me a sample output though of like, just just what 1903 01:54:41,790 --> 01:54:44,310 it looks like? The thing is gonna be easier than trying to 1904 01:54:44,310 --> 01:54:47,160 go line by line through your code and intro to sort of poured 1905 01:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,100 it and then FF like I just aim for a target of what the outputs 1906 01:54:50,100 --> 01:54:50,970 supposed to look like. 1907 01:54:51,930 --> 01:54:55,980 Oh, yeah, sure. Sure. Okay. Is not good enough. 1908 01:54:57,300 --> 01:55:02,880 I would not say it that way. What I would say is that I'm 1909 01:55:02,880 --> 01:55:04,740 terrible at JavaScript, that would be the way I would 1910 01:55:04,740 --> 01:55:05,190 describe it. 1911 01:55:05,340 --> 01:55:07,920 Yeah, I would say things are very early days on this, right. 1912 01:55:07,920 --> 01:55:10,770 So everyone, that's anyone that has any feedback on any of the 1913 01:55:10,770 --> 01:55:13,830 projects that I'm doing or anything like that. And I think 1914 01:55:13,860 --> 01:55:17,700 gear may actually was going back and forth pod station, is doing 1915 01:55:17,970 --> 01:55:21,480 yeoman's work of like filing bugs against Yes. And getting 1916 01:55:21,480 --> 01:55:24,270 some of those fixed, oh, dynamite. So he's been doing 1917 01:55:24,270 --> 01:55:26,250 really good work. So we've been I'll definitely integrate 1918 01:55:26,250 --> 01:55:30,240 whatever he's, he's finding into the mini pub documentation, 1919 01:55:30,240 --> 01:55:32,970 actually have some example if people want to not use mini pub, 1920 01:55:32,970 --> 01:55:35,730 but just want to do it themselves. I even have some 1921 01:55:35,730 --> 01:55:38,490 documents and like, here's what Mastodon comes back with. Here's 1922 01:55:38,490 --> 01:55:42,150 what Pleroma comes back with acid that might be of interest 1923 01:55:42,150 --> 01:55:44,010 to developers that are kind of like me and want to do 1924 01:55:44,010 --> 01:55:44,880 everything themselves. 1925 01:55:45,360 --> 01:55:47,460 Yeah, sure. Seems like party code. 1926 01:55:47,520 --> 01:55:52,050 Sure. Seems like activity Pub is is a winner. The stuff we're 1927 01:55:52,050 --> 01:55:54,450 doing with it? I mean, it just seems like it's a big thing 1928 01:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,570 overall, for decentralized, whatever, whatever it is, the 1929 01:55:57,570 --> 01:55:58,980 whole world is kind of building. 1930 01:55:59,339 --> 01:56:04,349 Yeah, it just we just need tools like thread cap where, where 1931 01:56:04,349 --> 01:56:08,249 people like James can just have a tool to output this stuff into 1932 01:56:08,249 --> 01:56:10,949 a usable format on the side and not have to do all the guts 1933 01:56:10,949 --> 01:56:14,639 implementation of activity pub, that, that we need the next we 1934 01:56:14,639 --> 01:56:19,319 need a next layer up, things like that. Yeah, because that's 1935 01:56:19,529 --> 01:56:22,469 one of the reasons I'm trying to do the red cap into PHP is 1936 01:56:22,469 --> 01:56:26,129 because we're just need more of those layers 1937 01:56:26,520 --> 01:56:29,040 of useful for a pod friend, I think too, right. I think his 1938 01:56:29,040 --> 01:56:30,900 back end and thinks of you. So yeah, thanks. 1939 01:56:31,620 --> 01:56:34,530 Thanks. Thanks to all of our supporters with your time your 1940 01:56:34,530 --> 01:56:38,070 talent, your treasure, thanks to well everyone who supported 1941 01:56:38,070 --> 01:56:42,780 this. Steven B. Thank you very much for your guidance. Alex 1942 01:56:42,780 --> 01:56:46,890 gates is hanging out in the in the chat room. Who else is in 1943 01:56:46,890 --> 01:56:51,480 there though? Chad F. Yeah. It's our cast, sir. bemrose making 1944 01:56:51,480 --> 01:56:53,730 sure we don't screw up the chat. Appreciate that. 1945 01:56:53,790 --> 01:56:55,080 Steven bass Spencer. 1946 01:56:57,270 --> 01:57:01,410 And I'll have the value blocks stuffs sorted for for the next 1947 01:57:01,410 --> 01:57:04,860 episode. Thank you both for your for your patience with me and 1948 01:57:04,860 --> 01:57:11,970 for your passion. Yeah. That's the passion I'm talking about 1949 01:57:11,970 --> 01:57:16,230 right there. Thanks, guys. Have a great weekend. All right. 1950 01:57:17,400 --> 01:57:20,970 That's it for podcasting. 2.0 Episode number 77. We back with 1951 01:57:20,970 --> 01:57:23,910 another board meeting next week. See you then. Take care 1952 01:57:23,910 --> 01:57:24,990 everybody have a good weekend? 1953 01:57:41,250 --> 01:57:45,840 You have been listening to podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast 1954 01:57:45,840 --> 01:57:48,480 index.org. For more information