Episode 75: Liquidifying for Love

100:00:00,719 --> 00:00:06,059podcasting 2.0 for February25 2022, episode 75 We're liquid200:00:06,059 --> 00:00:12,479defying for love and making upnew words as we do it. Hello300:00:12,479 --> 00:00:14,579everybody, welcome to theofficial board meeting of400:00:14,579 --> 00:00:18,419podcasting. 2.0 everything goingon to podcast index.org, the500:00:18,419 --> 00:00:21,989podcast namespace, and ofcourse, everything that we talk600:00:21,989 --> 00:00:25,529about in podcasting. Next upsocial and at the watercooler.700:00:25,769 --> 00:00:28,229I'm Adam curry here in the heartof the Texas Hill Country on800:00:28,229 --> 00:00:31,289Alabama the man who wraps upyour recommendations my friend900:00:31,289 --> 00:00:33,359on the other end, ladies andgentlemen, please say hello to1000:00:33,359 --> 00:00:39,359Mr. Dave Jones. liquid liquidquit find for love AV1100:00:41,700 --> 00:00:44,880invasion check if you've beeninvaded. I'm not I have not been1200:00:44,880 --> 00:00:45,060yet.1300:00:45,810 --> 00:00:51,150Hold on. Any Russians? No, no,I've not been invaded yet.1400:00:51,960 --> 00:00:53,640I'll clean here from Oakland.1500:00:55,320 --> 00:00:58,890Man, please don't get don't getme started. Don't get me1600:00:58,890 --> 00:01:01,830started. I'm not I justrecommend everybody watch wag1700:01:01,830 --> 00:01:05,520the dog and you'll know mystance on this. Have you ever1800:01:05,520 --> 00:01:06,090seen that movie?1900:01:06,420 --> 00:01:09,450Crazy 48 hours and have not I'vealways heard it's one of those2000:01:09,450 --> 00:01:12,510things that perpetually in thein the social parlance, but I've2100:01:12,510 --> 00:01:13,380never seen it.2200:01:13,410 --> 00:01:16,260We should actually get thattrending on Netflix because it's2300:01:16,260 --> 00:01:19,620Dustin Hoffman. It's it's acomedy. It's a funny movie. But2400:01:19,650 --> 00:01:23,790it explains so well. What Ithink we're living through right2500:01:23,790 --> 00:01:28,290now. Anyway. It's alright.Because that's why we're here to2600:01:28,290 --> 00:01:29,160save the world.2700:01:30,480 --> 00:01:33,540Yet one podcast at a time.That's right. While we run with2800:01:34,350 --> 00:01:37,410once one Yeah, one, one half asprotocol or2900:01:38,790 --> 00:01:42,960anything but half as Dave. Thethe protocol protocols are3000:01:42,960 --> 00:01:47,040great, man, there's so muchgoing on. And we have a great3100:01:47,040 --> 00:01:51,000guest on today's show. So we canbring him in pretty quickly. So3200:01:51,000 --> 00:01:54,180anything specifically we need totalk about right off the top3300:01:54,180 --> 00:01:58,800here at the board meeting. Somekind of buzz now what's going3400:01:58,800 --> 00:01:59,040on?3500:01:59,490 --> 00:02:04,890Well, I mean, I've been doingsome stuff that hasn't been3600:02:04,890 --> 00:02:09,150super visible. Over the lastcouple of weeks, really. I mean,3700:02:09,450 --> 00:02:14,040there was a hell of had releasedthat. And that took some time. I3800:02:14,040 --> 00:02:16,800was that's a great release. Bythe way. Thank you. Thank you3900:02:16,800 --> 00:02:21,180for doing all that for theexport. The CSV export is4000:02:21,210 --> 00:02:24,510outstanding. Thanks for teachingme how to import that into4100:02:24,510 --> 00:02:28,680Excel. Oh, yeah. With with autopivot tables. Oh,4200:02:29,400 --> 00:02:30,480it's a game changer.4300:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,250Yeah, I mean, especially forsomeone who's made pivot tables,4400:02:35,250 --> 00:02:38,190like, can I select all this andthen I got to select which4500:02:38,220 --> 00:02:44,130inputs and this is just likeimport from CSV? Okay.4600:02:45,060 --> 00:02:47,910Well, I feel like it's stable.Now. I feel like there's a lot4700:02:47,910 --> 00:02:54,090of there's, you know, bugs or aside effect of speed, mostly for4800:02:54,090 --> 00:02:57,600the most part. And, you know,the faster you push something4900:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,350out the door, the less chance itgets to be tested.5000:03:01,380 --> 00:03:06,180Oh, so you do in this, you know,after hours, your lunch break. I5100:03:06,180 --> 00:03:08,370mean, this is not your yourprime directive.5200:03:09,240 --> 00:03:13,140But that, but I feel like afterI guess this is the third5300:03:13,140 --> 00:03:16,560release. Yeah, third release, Ifeel like we're Third time's a5400:03:16,560 --> 00:03:20,040charm in the field we got we'repretty stable. Now when it comes5500:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,910to getting those payloads outreliably and not having any5600:03:23,910 --> 00:03:27,990loose or what what had happenedwas so Chris Fisher, of Jupiter5700:03:27,990 --> 00:03:31,050broadcasting and they do likeLinux unplugged and Linux Action5800:03:31,050 --> 00:03:36,090News and coder radio. Theythey're heavy users of hell pad5900:03:36,090 --> 00:03:42,030now. And so he had emailed meand said, hey, you know, our6000:03:42,030 --> 00:03:44,790health had just stopped, juststopped updating. And this is,6100:03:45,090 --> 00:03:49,650this is the this is the standardbug now. Right? yellow pad just6200:03:49,650 --> 00:03:51,120died, you know, it just stopped.6300:03:51,420 --> 00:03:55,170Well, now, I've seen some ofthis can also just be Umbral.6400:03:55,830 --> 00:03:58,260Yeah, a lot of people runningunrolls, and they do have their6500:03:58,260 --> 00:03:58,860issues.6600:03:59,610 --> 00:04:03,630Well, what was unique about thisone is he said I'm looking at.6700:04:04,710 --> 00:04:07,140He said, I opened up to see sothese are coders. These are6800:04:07,140 --> 00:04:11,490developers, which is amazing towork with. When you have other6900:04:11,490 --> 00:04:15,360coders giving you bug reports isbeautiful, because they don't7000:04:15,360 --> 00:04:17,490just say like, Hey, it didn'twork.7100:04:17,970 --> 00:04:23,250Oh, come on. I'm better thanthat. And no. No, they say, Hey,7200:04:23,250 --> 00:04:25,920I think you're getting trappedhere on an escaped characters7300:04:25,950 --> 00:04:29,760character. That was a Unicode IDthree centuries ago.7400:04:30,060 --> 00:04:33,060Yeah, they give you they giveyou all kinds of context.7500:04:33,120 --> 00:04:38,160Beautiful, beautiful, lovely,luscious context. And like he7600:04:38,160 --> 00:04:42,840said, a help had stopped dating,but I know we're getting boost7700:04:42,840 --> 00:04:48,450because I opened up the SQL litedatabase. Right. And I see new7800:04:48,450 --> 00:04:53,370entries and I was like, yeah,there we go. So it turned out7900:04:53,940 --> 00:04:59,010that what the issue was so I wasI was stripping is a couple8000:04:59,010 --> 00:05:02,670things for safety. Within helpme help as a JavaScript based,8100:05:02,700 --> 00:05:06,180you know, single page app. Isthat what you want it what8200:05:06,180 --> 00:05:09,330you're what you have is ascenario where you have random8300:05:09,330 --> 00:05:13,320people on the internet sendingyou content, right? Yes. And you8400:05:13,320 --> 00:05:14,550have to play defense,8500:05:15,240 --> 00:05:18,330emojis. That was amazing. Theemojis worked. I mean, that was8600:05:18,360 --> 00:05:22,380that by itself was such a crazy,crazy experience.8700:05:22,950 --> 00:05:26,430Yes, so the first, you know,prime prime directive number8800:05:26,430 --> 00:05:32,160one, when it comes to protectingyour JavaScript from random user8900:05:32,160 --> 00:05:36,540generated content is, you know,tag tag stripping within HTML,9000:05:36,540 --> 00:05:41,790right? Okay, got it in,definitely want to cleanse that.9100:05:42,150 --> 00:05:45,120You don't want just anybody tobe able to send you random HTML9200:05:45,120 --> 00:05:51,210tags, and then render them. So Ihandle that a couple of ways. I9300:05:51,210 --> 00:05:57,000built a strip tags function,excuse me, that would strip out9400:05:57,000 --> 00:06:03,600HTML tags in the message contentin but what I was doing with9500:06:03,600 --> 00:06:08,070that was actually running itover the entire JSON block after9600:06:08,070 --> 00:06:17,550that was rendered since JSON. Isnot is that is the greater than9700:06:17,550 --> 00:06:20,400less than characters are notspecial characters within JSON.9800:06:20,400 --> 00:06:23,850I'm like, okay, I can just runthat on the JSON block. And9900:06:23,880 --> 00:06:28,110that'll that'll take care of it.That'll take care of, of10000:06:28,110 --> 00:06:30,240stripping tags out ofeverything. If somebody decided10100:06:30,240 --> 00:06:36,120to get geeky, get cute, and puta script tag. Na,10200:06:36,210 --> 00:06:36,900yay.10300:06:37,950 --> 00:06:43,770Great stuff. Yeah. Butunfortunately, that's not in10400:06:43,770 --> 00:06:48,390retrospect. Clearly, that has anissue. So one of the the issue10500:06:48,390 --> 00:06:53,580that was happening was, somebodysent them a message. And they10600:06:53,580 --> 00:06:56,670had a little ASCII emoji in themessage of the heart, which is10700:06:56,850 --> 00:07:01,350opened, which is less than sign.Three. So sideways heart.10800:07:01,860 --> 00:07:03,840That's Ah, right.10900:07:05,040 --> 00:07:06,360That never closes.11000:07:06,690 --> 00:07:11,430Oh, man. Okay, that's obscure ornice. In the the effect it had11100:07:11,430 --> 00:07:14,910was that that might have beenme. I'm always doing hearts with11200:07:14,910 --> 00:07:15,540asking, Can11300:07:15,570 --> 00:07:21,360I do that, too? That didn't hitme in my brain is a problem. But11400:07:21,480 --> 00:07:25,440anyway, so that clearly is aproblem, because you open the11500:07:25,440 --> 00:07:27,870tag and never close it. So itwould wipe out the end of the11600:07:27,870 --> 00:07:31,950Jace, there was half a JSONblock in there. So just totally11700:07:31,950 --> 00:07:35,400screw it up. Oh, anyway, wentback and cleared that did proper11800:07:35,400 --> 00:07:40,470escape, you know, at field levelescaping on all the tags and put11900:07:40,470 --> 00:07:42,300that implemented that as atrade.12000:07:42,899 --> 00:07:46,829So now is this is this now aGitHub project where people can12100:07:46,829 --> 00:07:50,759start contributing is someoneyou know, I mean, I don't want12200:07:50,759 --> 00:07:54,179to default to you. But I mean,is this now going to be12300:07:54,179 --> 00:07:56,639enhanced? I mean, a lot ofpeople have great ideas.12400:07:56,849 --> 00:07:59,759Hopefully, some coders can dosome stuff, because man.12500:08:00,960 --> 00:08:04,680Yeah, a couple of people havealready forked it and stuff. And12600:08:04,920 --> 00:08:09,270we've already had a couplecontributions to do that have12700:08:09,270 --> 00:08:13,140been merged in. Yeah. It'sdefinitely an open project.12800:08:13,140 --> 00:08:16,260Anybody can. Anybody can stickme a stick whatever they want to12900:08:16,260 --> 00:08:19,800in there, as long as it makessome sense. Nice. No, yeah. No,13000:08:19,800 --> 00:08:24,660it's good release. And I thinkthe CSV export, there's a couple13100:08:24,660 --> 00:08:27,390of bugs I found in that as aresult of you sending me your13200:08:27,390 --> 00:08:31,800database, because you, yourdatabase is so big, it lives13300:08:31,800 --> 00:08:35,580what she said. I'm sorry, I hadto do it.13400:08:37,289 --> 00:08:44,879Your database is so is so big.That it gave lots of opportunity13500:08:44,879 --> 00:08:45,269for13600:08:45,449 --> 00:08:49,919for crap. Yeah, fairy furniturefor Well, what I you know, I13700:08:50,249 --> 00:08:53,309just wasn't prepared to startposting bug reports yet. But13800:08:53,309 --> 00:08:57,029there's definitely some apps doput things in different fields,13900:08:57,029 --> 00:09:00,509particularly if there's longermessages. Some things get like,14000:09:00,509 --> 00:09:04,709I think the podcast namesometimes gets switched around,14100:09:04,739 --> 00:09:07,949that could be in the export forsome reason. Or it could be the14200:09:07,949 --> 00:09:11,159way some apps and I think podfriend might send something14300:09:11,159 --> 00:09:15,149weird sometimes. But I'll haveto love to look deeper. I just14400:09:15,149 --> 00:09:17,819looked at the Excel sheet. And Iremember like, Oh, this isn't14500:09:17,819 --> 00:09:19,079this isn't a wrong field.14600:09:20,940 --> 00:09:24,780Like recently with it with thisnew release? Yeah. Send me a14700:09:24,780 --> 00:09:29,010screenshot because that the CSVthat sounds like if you have a14800:09:29,010 --> 00:09:31,650field appearing in a differentplace that sounds like it's14900:09:31,650 --> 00:09:36,930something with the parsing of MLto create this CSV job by hand.15000:09:36,930 --> 00:09:41,820So it's possible that adelimiters sneaking through and15100:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,100places not getting escapedproperly or some15200:09:44,400 --> 00:09:48,420right okay thing, but I mean,it's small thing. It's a very,15300:09:48,480 --> 00:09:50,820actually, I'm opening it up now.Let me just see if I can see it15400:09:50,820 --> 00:09:51,390offhand.15500:09:52,290 --> 00:09:55,170Yeah, if you can pinpoint it. Ican probably tell pretty quick15600:09:55,170 --> 00:09:56,760what it is and fix it. Yeah.15700:09:57,720 --> 00:10:04,380It's pod four. Okay, pod friendsinteresting comics through15800:10:04,380 --> 00:10:13,860blogger, pod friend and then ofcourse under the message you15900:10:13,860 --> 00:10:17,340don't know how funny that is tome under Message howdy Tina and16000:10:17,340 --> 00:10:20,130Adam and then under pot. Oh,that's what's changed instead of16100:10:20,130 --> 00:10:24,810the podcast saying curry in thekeeper. It continues with the16200:10:24,810 --> 00:10:27,690rest of his message greetingsfrom Eurotrash content. What I16300:10:27,690 --> 00:10:30,600have to do is voice greetingsfrom Euro trash content. I wish16400:10:30,600 --> 00:10:34,470you fast recovery from Corona ifyou're bored, feel free to visit16500:10:34,470 --> 00:10:40,020my blog all comic strip blog.comYo, and then under another16600:10:40,020 --> 00:10:43,440episode it continues otherwisejust relax. Don't booze too16700:10:43,440 --> 00:10:46,590much. That's only slobs like meand Jean our identity16800:10:46,890 --> 00:10:48,810genetically alcohol resistant.16900:10:49,950 --> 00:10:50,820resistant.17000:10:51,750 --> 00:10:57,240So and then it moves in thepocket. Yeah, and then then it17100:10:57,240 --> 00:11:00,630moves Korean the keeper andKerviel Cuf to different fields17200:11:00,630 --> 00:11:05,370in the to the column one do toother fields in the Excel. Okay,17300:11:05,520 --> 00:11:09,480so it sounds like a great shot.Okay, you know, dick pics are17400:11:09,480 --> 00:11:12,330illegal now in the UK. So I gotto be careful what I send you.17500:11:12,660 --> 00:11:19,200Yes. Yeah, I can. It's funny.There must be some. I don't know17600:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,280how that can happen. You know, IThe funny thing about bugs is17700:11:23,430 --> 00:11:27,630you never know how they happenuntil you find them. Oh, there17800:11:27,630 --> 00:11:28,230it is.17900:11:28,470 --> 00:11:30,690I'll just send you the CSV file.You can take a look at it18000:11:30,690 --> 00:11:34,410yourself. Okay, yeah. Beautiful.That's probably probably the18100:11:34,410 --> 00:11:38,010easiest. Well, since we'retalking about messaging.18200:11:39,900 --> 00:11:42,990Actually, before we bring in ourguests, I just wanted to mention18300:11:42,990 --> 00:11:46,380one thing. I was listening topod land as I do. I was boosting18400:11:46,380 --> 00:11:53,970pod land, I should say. I'm aI'm a hate booster. Oh, no, not18500:11:53,970 --> 00:11:57,660hate, but I'm always like, No,this is wrong. Here's 300,00318600:11:57,660 --> 00:11:59,580And three, three SATs thatproves that you're wrong.18700:12:00,210 --> 00:12:02,550You can use that to thepodcasters doing that to their18800:12:02,550 --> 00:12:03,360benefit. But18900:12:03,750 --> 00:12:07,050remember, we monetize trollswith podcasting. 2.0. This is19000:12:07,500 --> 00:12:13,290our monitor. Yes, yeah. Wecertainly monetized trolls. But19100:12:13,290 --> 00:12:15,480there was one discussion, whichI just wanted to say something19200:12:15,480 --> 00:12:22,830about and get your input on. AndI'd seen James is his proposal19300:12:22,830 --> 00:12:27,990for a replacement for the owneremail tag in the RSS feed?19400:12:28,559 --> 00:12:31,109Yes. I'd like to talk about thatas well. Yeah. Okay. I19500:12:31,110 --> 00:12:37,410have two things to say about it.One. Are you kidding me? I mean,19600:12:37,800 --> 00:12:44,520yeah, really, I mean, this is, Ihave had, I've had my name and19700:12:44,520 --> 00:12:51,060my email address in my feed fora for 15 years. And the only19800:12:51,060 --> 00:12:54,720thing that's, that doesn't evenbother me is I get lots of19900:12:57,120 --> 00:13:01,200publicists and PR people, I geton their mailing list. And then20000:13:01,200 --> 00:13:03,720these lists are created andthey're shared. And quite20100:13:03,720 --> 00:13:06,960honestly, I look at I look at itgets to it's usually podcasting20200:13:06,960 --> 00:13:09,390related. And a lot of it islike, Hey, I've went to his new20300:13:09,390 --> 00:13:13,860service. here's this, here'sthat. And now if I wanted to, I20400:13:13,860 --> 00:13:17,790could put a different emailaddress in there. And so that,20500:13:17,820 --> 00:13:21,390you know, we go to a differentbox. If that was a big problem.20600:13:21,570 --> 00:13:26,760It is by far the easiest way toidentify ownership. There's20700:13:26,790 --> 00:13:33,210issues with idiots who loseemail access and but the same20800:13:33,210 --> 00:13:37,830can be said for a token. Andalso, I believe that the spec20900:13:37,830 --> 00:13:43,770cannot be fucked with what isthe spec? That RSS 2.0?21000:13:44,760 --> 00:13:47,790Yeah, but emails not but thatemail is not a required tag,21100:13:47,970 --> 00:13:50,850or this you don't have to put itin you can not put anything in21200:13:50,850 --> 00:13:54,570at all, then find that leave itout, you get no spam. Yeah. And21300:13:54,570 --> 00:13:59,010then you and you can't then youcan't certify or no claim your21400:13:59,010 --> 00:14:00,210feed off shit.21500:14:00,870 --> 00:14:06,720But as I vehemently disagree,okay, in that, here's, here's21600:14:06,720 --> 00:14:14,160why a bunch of reasons. Numberone legal, because if you have21700:14:14,160 --> 00:14:17,490to validate an email, then youhave to store it in some way.21800:14:18,060 --> 00:14:23,910And once you do that, then youare then you have to start21900:14:23,910 --> 00:14:26,670following things like GDPR andthat kind of thing with personal22000:14:26,670 --> 00:14:31,470content. For legal reason. It'smuch cleaner if you can just22100:14:31,470 --> 00:14:35,100avoid ever dealing with an emailaddress and only deal with some22200:14:35,100 --> 00:14:41,670sort of app. You know,handshake. I think that makes22300:14:42,360 --> 00:14:46,500that makes the the O auth. Orapp handshake validation process22400:14:46,560 --> 00:14:51,030a lot easier to deal with. Forpeople who don't want to have to22500:14:51,030 --> 00:14:56,850deal with regulation. That wouldbe the first one that justified22600:14:56,850 --> 00:15:05,490the second one is that with Thiscould be combined, this, this22700:15:05,490 --> 00:15:10,080can actually make, make iteasier to do other things. Also,22800:15:10,140 --> 00:15:14,280if you have a pass through sortof handshakes situation. One of22900:15:14,280 --> 00:15:16,170the things that we've beentalking about for a while is a23000:15:16,170 --> 00:15:20,280sort of an openness subscriptionmechanism where you can allow23100:15:20,280 --> 00:15:26,520people to claim to claim asubscription to a feed. And I23200:15:26,520 --> 00:15:31,290was looking through pod pass.Now, that's a spec that was23300:15:31,290 --> 00:15:37,260designed. It came at a radiopublic. And I'm not sure who the23400:15:37,260 --> 00:15:43,740actual, like creator of it was.But it was, let's see who who23500:15:43,740 --> 00:15:47,610was it. I think Mike Kane neverrecipt sent this to me23600:15:47,610 --> 00:15:52,650originally. In because we weretalking about as Jake Shapiro23700:15:52,650 --> 00:15:55,470who's now at Apple, but he wasat Radio public when he when23800:15:55,470 --> 00:15:59,460this came out. This is aprotocol for how to do the same23900:15:59,460 --> 00:16:06,000sort of handshake thing whereyou can say, Okay, here's a24000:16:06,060 --> 00:16:08,910here's a subscription onlypodcast, there's this private24100:16:08,910 --> 00:16:11,670podcast that I want to subscribeto. I've actually already24200:16:11,670 --> 00:16:14,280subscribed to it. I subscribe toit on this other on this other24300:16:14,280 --> 00:16:14,850service.24400:16:15,660 --> 00:16:22,680Okay, stop. Yes, we can agree onthis very easily. It's just an24500:16:22,680 --> 00:16:26,640addition and not a replacement.Yes. Okay. I'm good with that. I24600:16:26,640 --> 00:16:31,530love having my email address inmy feed. I love getting the24700:16:31,530 --> 00:16:36,180problem here is not the spam.The problem is a competitor24800:16:36,330 --> 00:16:43,230spams spam to accompany spam tocompetitors. Clients targeted24900:16:43,230 --> 00:16:48,090them specifically, which is nowconsidered, I guess, not25000:16:48,090 --> 00:16:53,550gentlemanly. But that's that'sthat's when it became a problem25100:16:53,550 --> 00:16:57,120not for the 1000s of spams I'vereceived that no one ever25200:16:57,120 --> 00:17:00,990complained until it became aproblem because people are doing25300:17:01,350 --> 00:17:04,680guerilla marketing with it.Correct.25400:17:05,820 --> 00:17:08,910From the standpoint Well, that's25500:17:08,910 --> 00:17:11,760what the story, the story thestory started there. The story25600:17:11,760 --> 00:17:15,420started with, oh my god, I can'tbelieve a caste spammed all of25700:17:15,420 --> 00:17:18,570bus sprouts customers and saidYou should leave Buzzsprout25800:17:19,169 --> 00:17:23,129Well, no, yes. No, that is that.That's, that's that's the story25900:17:23,129 --> 00:17:26,399though. That is the story.That's what that's but but if26000:17:26,399 --> 00:17:31,799you brought if you step back andbroaden it out to like, in not26100:17:31,799 --> 00:17:36,539just that story, which was adouche move to do. But if you26200:17:36,809 --> 00:17:39,899step back and say, Okay, nowwhat is like you call it a26300:17:39,899 --> 00:17:43,919problem? You said, it's not aproblem, unless, you know, until26400:17:43,919 --> 00:17:46,619it becomes this guerillamarketing thing? Well, depends26500:17:46,619 --> 00:17:50,069on a defined problem, but canalso be dental issues. This26600:17:50,099 --> 00:17:50,969check er, but26700:17:50,970 --> 00:17:53,730it's subject I hadn't thoughtabout GDPR. But its objective.26800:17:54,240 --> 00:17:58,800What is it what a problem is,I'm all for an additional26900:17:58,800 --> 00:18:01,140namespace tag withauthentication. I have no27000:18:01,140 --> 00:18:04,170problem with that. I just had aproblem with the stories like27100:18:04,170 --> 00:18:06,720everyone's whining about this.And I love the guys at27200:18:06,720 --> 00:18:09,720Buzzsprout as much as I loveeverybody else. But it's like,27300:18:09,720 --> 00:18:15,270okay, it really wasn't a hugenews item and issue until a cast27400:18:15,270 --> 00:18:19,530just just why don't we the newstory is attention attention, a27500:18:19,530 --> 00:18:24,120cast or assholes. That's that'sthe new story. That's it, and27600:18:24,120 --> 00:18:26,850then everything else is bliss.So I just want to move it away27700:18:26,850 --> 00:18:32,790from the email and say, whydon't we just create a better27800:18:32,790 --> 00:18:35,280way to authenticate becausethere's all these benefits?27900:18:35,610 --> 00:18:37,020Maybe that's all I care about?28000:18:37,710 --> 00:18:41,160Well, a cast said that they loveopen RSS. That's what they've28100:18:41,160 --> 00:18:42,750been saying for a while. And nowwe know what28200:18:43,530 --> 00:18:46,920Yeah, but when I'm saying isfree email address, what I'm28300:18:46,920 --> 00:18:51,180saying is, is that every companyspams me and, you know, Spotify28400:18:51,180 --> 00:18:55,770spans me and Google spans me andAmazon spams me. And I don't28500:18:55,770 --> 00:19:00,090mind because I might not havefound out about this wonderful28600:19:00,090 --> 00:19:04,260opportunity. You know, it'spretty damn targeted.28700:19:05,970 --> 00:19:07,320What are you talking about in28800:19:07,380 --> 00:19:11,730emails? Emails based upon what'sin my feed? You know, it's like,28900:19:11,730 --> 00:19:14,310hey, podcasts are like and Iknow exactly how they got my29000:19:14,310 --> 00:19:14,880email.29100:19:16,260 --> 00:19:19,170I understand where you're comingfrom because I understand where29200:19:19,170 --> 00:19:22,860you're coming from the big thebig thing is that like, you29300:19:22,860 --> 00:19:25,620can't stop spam ever so just Imean, there's a little bit of29400:19:25,620 --> 00:19:30,300like, why even try involved hereand you if you get utility out29500:19:30,300 --> 00:19:33,270of it? Why? I mean, why are youtrying to fight you know, put29600:19:33,270 --> 00:19:34,350your finger in the dam,29700:19:34,410 --> 00:19:39,150but, but also if you really wantto get my attention, send me a29800:19:39,150 --> 00:19:39,930booster gram.29900:19:41,130 --> 00:19:41,910No, yes, sir.30000:19:41,940 --> 00:19:43,650That's what eight cash should bedoing.30100:19:45,090 --> 00:19:48,450Open up breeze. This is thebooster speaking30200:19:48,450 --> 00:19:51,150of the US, shall we bring ourguest into the boardroom right30300:19:51,150 --> 00:19:53,070now? Because he's been sittingpatiently about on the30400:19:53,070 --> 00:19:55,560sidelines. It's very late wherehe lives. Oh, do30500:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,110we have a guest? Yes, please, byall means.30600:19:58,110 --> 00:20:00,180We have a guest ladies andgentlemen that we've tried To30700:20:00,180 --> 00:20:03,870get him on before he's veryelusive. We're not sure if he's30800:20:03,900 --> 00:20:07,410a founder, the co founder, theCEO, or he's actually all the30900:20:07,410 --> 00:20:10,770dev guys on the GitHub as well.Please say hello to Roy31000:20:10,770 --> 00:20:12,780scheinfeld from breeze.31100:20:13,230 --> 00:20:14,790Hey, hey, Dave.31200:20:15,240 --> 00:20:20,340Hey, Roy. I've been trying toget you on forever, dude.31300:20:20,760 --> 00:20:22,620Come on. That's not fair guys,you know?31400:20:23,370 --> 00:20:27,420No, of course. But who saidwe're fair? We're podcasters.31500:20:28,170 --> 00:20:37,800Right? Israel, Israel based. Sobreeze is unique amongst all of31600:20:37,800 --> 00:20:42,060the podcast apps, that andpodcasting 2.0 apps, I'll say,31700:20:42,450 --> 00:20:46,230in the sense that y'all were awallet first, and then add in31800:20:46,230 --> 00:20:50,190podcasting later, which is verydifferent from what most of the31900:20:50,190 --> 00:20:55,290podcasting, people know appshave done. I guess, I want to32000:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,880know, first of all, like, how,just how has it gone? How has32100:20:59,880 --> 00:21:03,870the you committed a lot of deaftime to this to put podcasting32200:21:03,870 --> 00:21:07,800into the breeze wallet? And Imean, have you gotten a decent32300:21:07,800 --> 00:21:08,430return on it?32400:21:08,490 --> 00:21:12,570Hold on a second. Before youbefore you answer that, Roy. I32500:21:12,570 --> 00:21:15,000don't even remember how weconnected and how you started32600:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,910doing it anymore. Do you mindDave? We just we just get the32700:21:17,940 --> 00:21:19,500because do you remember Dave?32800:21:19,770 --> 00:21:24,990I see. I didn't know I thinksomeone connected us, Adam. And32900:21:24,990 --> 00:21:29,370we got on the call. And I sawthe light and started walking on33000:21:29,400 --> 00:21:32,520that podcasting. 2.0 That's howit happened.33100:21:32,670 --> 00:21:34,530Okay, what if it was Paul eversaying33200:21:34,530 --> 00:21:37,050But was it Paul? It might havebeen? I think it was Paul.33300:21:37,560 --> 00:21:40,380Maybe? Yeah, yeah, perhaps.Okay.33400:21:40,770 --> 00:21:45,060Sorry. Back to the question.How's it going?33500:21:45,660 --> 00:21:48,780Hey, I was doing good. By theway. I don't quote breezy today.33600:21:48,900 --> 00:21:54,330And I never called Brazil walleteven when it was just a wallet.33700:21:56,370 --> 00:21:56,850Yeah,33800:21:57,180 --> 00:21:59,490it's a point of saleapplication. Is that fair?33900:22:00,060 --> 00:22:03,270No, not really, it. I didn'tcall it the world even before we34000:22:03,270 --> 00:22:04,140had the point of sale.34100:22:04,590 --> 00:22:06,240It's a portable lightning node.34200:22:07,980 --> 00:22:12,030Technically, but for users, Ihate the word wallet in the34300:22:12,030 --> 00:22:16,260context of lightning. I reallyhate the term wallet. It's so34400:22:16,260 --> 00:22:21,240technical. And so what I want todo with breeze and what we think34500:22:21,270 --> 00:22:24,480we all in the lightningecosystem should do. We want to34600:22:24,480 --> 00:22:28,320get adoption, right and no onecalls Venmo a wallet, no one34700:22:28,320 --> 00:22:32,160calls PayPal the wallet. Peopledon't care about wallet, people34800:22:32,190 --> 00:22:38,220want X pay for stuff extra. So Isee raised as a payment service.34900:22:38,280 --> 00:22:42,570So you can ask me why I addedpodcasting 2.0 to our payment35000:22:42,570 --> 00:22:44,520service, but not worldwide.35100:22:45,750 --> 00:22:48,870Okay. All right. I understandfully that that makes perfect35200:22:48,870 --> 00:22:52,410sense. Because if you now, youunderstand why you add35300:22:52,500 --> 00:22:54,810podcasting to it, becausepodcasting needs a payment35400:22:54,810 --> 00:22:57,210service. And so you think thatwas a perfect compliment.35500:22:57,869 --> 00:23:02,729Exactly. Exactly. So, so breezyis all about like creating peer35600:23:02,729 --> 00:23:07,499to peer economy. And that's whywe started like the idea behind35700:23:07,499 --> 00:23:11,999breweries was to help a Bitcoindo this transformation from a35800:23:11,999 --> 00:23:15,719store of value to a medium ofchange. And what we tried to do35900:23:15,719 --> 00:23:21,359with bridge is to explore theways people can interact in a36000:23:21,359 --> 00:23:25,379peer to peer manner with withthe lightning economy. So we36100:23:25,379 --> 00:23:29,849started with like, a genericsend receive payments, where36200:23:29,849 --> 00:23:32,519people can send payments andreceive payments from their36300:23:32,729 --> 00:23:36,659friends. Then we added the pointof sale interface, because36400:23:36,929 --> 00:23:41,279lightning enables everyone tobecome a merchant without having36500:23:41,279 --> 00:23:47,069a bank account. And then afterour there our meeting with Adam,36600:23:47,069 --> 00:23:54,149after Adam was so charming, andwe added we added first get36700:23:54,209 --> 00:23:57,869podcasting 2.0 I think apodcasting 2.0 is a is a is a is36800:23:57,869 --> 00:24:02,519an amazing use case for thelightning economy. And yeah, I36900:24:02,519 --> 00:24:02,669was37000:24:02,670 --> 00:24:09,720gonna ask you most want to bepayment services. Unlike yours,37100:24:09,720 --> 00:24:14,850which is the payment service.They, they have a point of sale37200:24:14,850 --> 00:24:19,680app. And in fact, a lot of Ithink the the first applications37300:24:19,680 --> 00:24:22,620of any lightning app that I eversaw was point of sale and37400:24:22,620 --> 00:24:26,970roulette. Is point of sale beingused a lot.37500:24:28,260 --> 00:24:36,330A it's being used in not a lot.I would say like a 10 to 20% of37600:24:36,330 --> 00:24:39,510our users use breeze as thepoint of sale, but there are the37700:24:39,510 --> 00:24:45,960most heavy users. So the peoplethat are relying on breeze as a37800:24:45,960 --> 00:24:49,050point of sale are our mostactive users and our most37900:24:49,050 --> 00:24:54,120demanding users. And I think alot of our traffic. Our traffic38000:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,720is really associated with ourpoint of sale interface.38100:24:57,869 --> 00:25:02,069I also see a lot of ln URLactivity in your groups?38200:25:03,300 --> 00:25:08,010A Yeah, yeah. Because you'relike thinking it's a great38300:25:08,010 --> 00:25:12,300addition to what a web WebServices has to offer. And38400:25:12,300 --> 00:25:16,440people are using it just abetter user experience for38500:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,580interacting with lightning.38600:25:18,270 --> 00:25:21,810Do you use your breeze for tolistening to all your pods?38700:25:21,810 --> 00:25:22,740Podcasts?38800:25:24,510 --> 00:25:25,740connected to a secret?38900:25:25,770 --> 00:25:27,210You don't listen to podcast? Doyou?39000:25:27,240 --> 00:25:28,770I don't know. I don't know.39100:25:30,660 --> 00:25:32,550Your reader. Okay. Yeah. Well,39200:25:32,550 --> 00:25:36,450you're also very good writer.Ben always looking forward to a39300:25:36,450 --> 00:25:40,140good ROI article, because I knowI can just sit down with coffee39400:25:40,140 --> 00:25:43,050and read for, you know, 30minutes because you have nice39500:25:43,050 --> 00:25:46,710long well thought out. Wellthought out articles and one you39600:25:46,710 --> 00:25:48,510dropped yesterday is noexception.39700:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,780Yeah, the liquid lightning inliquidity network?39800:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,190Yeah, there's one thing in hereyou said that, that I39900:25:56,190 --> 00:26:00,540highlighted last night as I wasreading through it. And he said,40000:26:00,540 --> 00:26:03,270When routing nodes optimizetheir local liquidity40100:26:03,270 --> 00:26:06,180allocation, everyone benefitsfrom a better network,40200:26:06,300 --> 00:26:09,420collective benefits result fromthe decisions of self regarding40300:26:09,420 --> 00:26:12,960individuals. And you were sayingthis in sort of context of like40400:26:12,960 --> 00:26:16,680Adam Smith and the invisiblehand of the market. But this,40500:26:17,250 --> 00:26:21,090this feels like the struggleright now. And I want to get40600:26:21,090 --> 00:26:24,870your thought on this. It feelslike there's this sort of the40700:26:24,870 --> 00:26:28,950Lightning Network has grownreally fast. And whenever you40800:26:28,950 --> 00:26:33,270have sort of hyper growth over ashort period of time, it really,40900:26:34,020 --> 00:26:37,770people have to stop and breatheand figure out what is going on.41000:26:37,890 --> 00:26:40,740And I think what has happeningnow from my sense, is that41100:26:40,740 --> 00:26:44,430there's an sort of allocation,liquidity allocation discovery41200:26:44,430 --> 00:26:47,160process going on, where peopleare trying to figure out what41300:26:47,160 --> 00:26:50,640their channels need to looklike, how much the to charge,41400:26:50,730 --> 00:26:52,980all these kinds of things. Isthat is that kind of what you're41500:26:52,980 --> 00:26:53,730trying to say there?41600:26:54,090 --> 00:26:57,720Yes, yes, exactly. So youYou're, you're calling me out.41700:26:58,890 --> 00:27:04,290Kind of the reason that I wrotethe article is really because I,41800:27:04,530 --> 00:27:09,660I think we're seeing latelythere's, there's a growing41900:27:09,660 --> 00:27:14,880number of percentage of failedpayments. And it's not because42000:27:14,880 --> 00:27:19,950nodes are not connected, nodesare connected. But if there's a42100:27:19,950 --> 00:27:22,380payment, and then if there's alightning payment, and the42200:27:22,380 --> 00:27:26,250payment has failed, meaningthere's a route, but if the42300:27:26,250 --> 00:27:30,450payment didn't went through theroute, it means liquidity was42400:27:30,480 --> 00:27:35,130mis allocated. And the reasonthe reason I wrote this article42500:27:35,130 --> 00:27:39,570is to show that we need to startthinking about lightning as42600:27:39,570 --> 00:27:43,980liquidity network. And peopleneed to start thinking about42700:27:44,010 --> 00:27:48,420better ways to allocate theirliquidity and the how is the42800:27:48,420 --> 00:27:52,890challenge. And also, that'sanother reason for re writing42900:27:52,890 --> 00:27:57,300this article, I want the I wanta more better tooling to be in43000:27:57,300 --> 00:28:01,410place, and we don't havesplicing layer, a peer swap, and43100:28:01,410 --> 00:28:04,710you can drill down to the toolsto the specific clip you guys43200:28:04,710 --> 00:28:05,010want.43300:28:05,520 --> 00:28:08,160I need to ask a question aboutthis, because I'm glad you43400:28:08,160 --> 00:28:12,240brought it up, Dave. So I'm kindof in charge of the podcast43500:28:12,240 --> 00:28:19,380index node. So I set it up. So Iwas early on and the idea we43600:28:19,380 --> 00:28:25,290always had was, we need to makethese micro payments work. And,43700:28:25,830 --> 00:28:30,930and the majority of users whocome into podcasting 2.0 And you43800:28:30,930 --> 00:28:33,960know, we're such early days,there's so many pioneers and43900:28:33,960 --> 00:28:39,060very brave people who are buyingraspberry pies and setting up44000:28:39,060 --> 00:28:43,830nodes and loading Umbral ontoold laptops and, and people are44100:28:43,830 --> 00:28:48,000really, really excited. And thebiggest problem we of course,44200:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,450hit when someone, you know, isfinally synced to the blockchain44300:28:51,450 --> 00:28:55,380for 57 hours. And they're like,Okay, I know I've opened a44400:28:55,380 --> 00:28:57,990channel. And then of course,they have no inbound liquidity.44500:28:58,320 --> 00:29:02,520And what podcast index has doneconsistently is every Satoshi we44600:29:02,520 --> 00:29:08,490get, we save, and we turn intoliquidity. And this has been44700:29:08,490 --> 00:29:10,740something Dave and I've beentalking about also in the board44800:29:10,740 --> 00:29:13,800meeting for the past couple ofweeks. You know, basically44900:29:13,800 --> 00:29:19,560someone buys a, you know,someone installs Umbral on on an45000:29:19,560 --> 00:29:24,420old laptop, and we're putting,you know, $100 of liquidity to45100:29:24,420 --> 00:29:29,640that person, which is, it turnsout is not very efficient. And45200:29:29,670 --> 00:29:33,210the way I've been looking atmaking it more and this your45300:29:33,210 --> 00:29:36,210article is really good, and Ireally appreciate it because45400:29:36,390 --> 00:29:42,270what it told me was I'm on theright path of making our kind of45500:29:42,270 --> 00:29:46,740local issue work for us. WhereasI've always been concerned45600:29:46,740 --> 00:29:50,730about, you know, like, like theconnections more as you said45700:29:50,730 --> 00:29:55,050more than the liquidity. And soI made some fundamental changes45800:29:55,050 --> 00:30:01,650as an experiment because weroute a lot But we were not45900:30:01,650 --> 00:30:06,150making a lot of money. And Iwant to make sure the46000:30:06,150 --> 00:30:10,650microtransactions go throughcleanly and easily. So, you46100:30:10,650 --> 00:30:13,890know, the, the interim changesI've made is I have, because we46200:30:13,890 --> 00:30:17,280also because we're connected, wedo have some big channels, you46300:30:17,280 --> 00:30:19,170know, people will be like, Oh,we're just gonna, I'm gonna46400:30:19,170 --> 00:30:22,080rebalance through these fuckersover here. And then we have, you46500:30:22,080 --> 00:30:25,680know, all of these, you know,250, sach, 1000 chats at46600:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,290channels getting completelyscrewed, and people don't know46700:30:28,290 --> 00:30:31,920what to do. Exactly. So. So whatI've done is I've taken away the46800:30:31,920 --> 00:30:37,050base fee of zero, to incentivizethe micro payments, and I've46900:30:37,110 --> 00:30:45,090upped the, the, the percentagefee significantly, and that has47000:30:45,150 --> 00:30:48,480that seen what I saw, and I'mnot sure it's only been a few47100:30:48,480 --> 00:30:53,310days, channels, almost autumnautomagically started to be47200:30:53,340 --> 00:30:56,370better balanced. I don't knowwhy, but it just seems like47300:30:56,700 --> 00:31:00,330probably 30% balanced, betterended by themselves. I didn't do47400:31:00,330 --> 00:31:00,810anything.47500:31:01,200 --> 00:31:05,250And cosy, the channels don't getdepleted by the large47600:31:05,250 --> 00:31:06,090transactions.47700:31:06,330 --> 00:31:13,140Right. And, and we weredefinitely making more in fees,47800:31:13,710 --> 00:31:16,080which I, which I think isimportant. And now I have to47900:31:16,080 --> 00:31:20,310kind of figure out and maybe youcan help, or we can just talk48000:31:20,310 --> 00:31:25,710about it. You know, do I need tocategorize types of users and48100:31:25,710 --> 00:31:30,570their usage and calculate feesbased upon them individual48200:31:30,570 --> 00:31:34,260channels? Or is that something Ishould do across the board? I48300:31:34,260 --> 00:31:37,440mean, it's, it's kind of scary,because I'm at any given moment,48400:31:37,440 --> 00:31:41,460like, will this fee that I'mchanging here? Will it make a48500:31:41,460 --> 00:31:44,670payment fail a payment of youknow, like 10 SATs? Will it48600:31:44,670 --> 00:31:45,600screw that up?48700:31:47,640 --> 00:31:54,630Yeah, I think I think one of thebest practices practices is to48800:31:54,630 --> 00:31:57,960analyze the flows like what arethe flows that you want to48900:31:57,960 --> 00:32:01,410controls? What are the flowsthat you are master must have in49000:32:01,410 --> 00:32:06,330your, in your mind and in like,set the right fees for the for49100:32:06,360 --> 00:32:11,610disclose? I think what you'redoing is exactly right. But I49200:32:11,610 --> 00:32:14,700think let's let's take a stepback, like rebalancing is bad.49300:32:16,260 --> 00:32:19,740No one should rebalance theirchannels using the existing49400:32:19,740 --> 00:32:23,640tools. That's that's the, that'sthe honest truth. Because when49500:32:23,640 --> 00:32:27,480you rebalance your channelsinside the Lightning Network, it49600:32:27,480 --> 00:32:29,550means you're screwing up theliquidity49700:32:29,640 --> 00:32:33,270of everybody have lots ofpeople. And but we get we get in49800:32:33,270 --> 00:32:36,150that loop a lot. And it's, andit's usually people with really49900:32:36,150 --> 00:32:38,640good intentions, who all of asudden, they're sending, you50000:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,420know, 5 million SATs through aring of fire, which I'm okay50100:32:42,420 --> 00:32:45,360with all of that. And I thinkit's fun to do. But then one50200:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,260thing screws up and then there'sall these little nodes of like,50300:32:49,290 --> 00:32:50,520Whoa, where did it go?50400:32:51,270 --> 00:32:55,050Exactly, exactly. And I'm doingthat as well, like with the50500:32:55,050 --> 00:32:59,790breeze node. But that's becauseof lack of better tools. Yeah, I50600:32:59,790 --> 00:33:03,450think I think I'm pointing outin the article, one of the tools50700:33:03,450 --> 00:33:07,470that I think needs to be inplace is a pure swap. And appear50800:33:07,470 --> 00:33:13,020swap is a way to rebalance yourchannels by doing an off chain50900:33:13,020 --> 00:33:18,450to an on chain swap. And thenyou're not damaging the51000:33:18,450 --> 00:33:21,570liquidity of other channels,because there's no like circular51100:33:21,600 --> 00:33:25,020rebalancing going on. He's just,you're controlling a specific51200:33:25,020 --> 00:33:28,230channel, and you can say, I'mmoving liquidity to the other51300:33:28,230 --> 00:33:31,200side of the channel. How do I dothat by doing an on chain51400:33:31,200 --> 00:33:31,890transaction?51500:33:32,580 --> 00:33:35,400Right now that that's doable?Correct me if I'm wrong, but51600:33:35,400 --> 00:33:40,260that's doable? Really? Because?And I'm not sure if I'm talking51700:33:40,260 --> 00:33:43,200to people who may not understandlightning a whole lot, either is51800:33:44,910 --> 00:33:47,820if I'm not mistaken, then everylightning every lightning51900:33:47,820 --> 00:33:53,070transaction is a valid on chaintransaction also. So that on52000:33:53,070 --> 00:33:56,550chain transaction can be youcan, you could theoretically, if52100:33:56,550 --> 00:34:01,470the tooling and everything werecorrect, you could bump that you52200:34:01,470 --> 00:34:05,910could go go on chain, enough todo that liquidity swap52300:34:06,240 --> 00:34:08,940temporarily, without having tobring the whole channel down and52400:34:08,940 --> 00:34:09,870back up. Is that right?52500:34:10,440 --> 00:34:14,490No, not really, it's true thatany lightning transaction is52600:34:14,490 --> 00:34:18,390also a Bitcoin transaction. Butit also it only takes effect52700:34:18,390 --> 00:34:22,230when you close the channel. Ifyou want to keep the channel52800:34:22,230 --> 00:34:25,980open, the way the way to do thisoff chain to launch in52900:34:25,980 --> 00:34:30,840transaction is by doing a swapthat's that's one option and an53000:34:30,840 --> 00:34:33,960atomic swap. But in atomic swap,you're not closing the channel53100:34:33,960 --> 00:34:37,380in or you're not using the samelightning transaction as the on53200:34:37,380 --> 00:34:41,460chain transaction. What you'reactually doing is sending a53300:34:41,460 --> 00:34:45,330lightning transaction you you doyou're using a concept called53400:34:45,330 --> 00:34:48,330the hold invoice meaning you arenot settling the lightning53500:34:48,360 --> 00:34:52,890transaction until the in anotherdifferent completely different53600:34:53,130 --> 00:34:57,030on chain transaction isexecuted. Once you know this on53700:34:57,030 --> 00:35:00,270chain transaction is executed.You settle the Lightning53800:35:00,270 --> 00:35:03,120transaction. It's called in anatomic swap.53900:35:03,120 --> 00:35:06,390Right? So, yeah, you could alsoyou could also just walk over to54000:35:06,390 --> 00:35:09,570someone's house, give them 50bucks and say, shoot some SATs54100:35:09,570 --> 00:35:09,990my way.54200:35:10,680 --> 00:35:14,100Exactly. Okay, exactly. But youdo that in a in a trustless54300:35:14,160 --> 00:35:19,200manner. Right? That's, that'sthe thing with with, with an54400:35:19,200 --> 00:35:23,430atomic swap, by the way, Breezehas a built in atomic swap54500:35:24,300 --> 00:35:28,740inside the app, when you receiveon chain transaction in breeze,54600:35:28,920 --> 00:35:32,760it's actually in an on chain tooff chain swap. And when you54700:35:32,760 --> 00:35:36,750send the funds outside thewallet to Ben on change, but54800:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,310also on chain address, we'redoing an off chain to the to on54900:35:41,310 --> 00:35:45,780chain swap, and everything istrustless. But you don't have to55000:35:45,780 --> 00:35:51,690trust breeze in that, in that.In that scenario, it's called55100:35:51,690 --> 00:35:58,560the submarine swaps. And F everynode every node that the thing55200:35:58,560 --> 00:36:03,630is in the problem is that notnodes don't expose the service,55300:36:03,750 --> 00:36:07,170meaning they don't have anatomic swap service to expose to55400:36:07,170 --> 00:36:11,280other nodes. So no one canactually do that. And there's a55500:36:11,280 --> 00:36:17,250new new tool developed by blockstream called gear swap, it's55600:36:17,310 --> 00:36:21,390basically an extension to yournode, where you can set up55700:36:21,390 --> 00:36:25,230another service on top of yourlightning node where you you55800:36:25,230 --> 00:36:29,940tell other nodes in the network,you can swap with me and when55900:36:29,940 --> 00:36:33,900you swap with them in you have adirect channel with them, it56000:36:33,900 --> 00:36:37,830actually moved the liquidity tothe other side of the channel56100:36:37,950 --> 00:36:41,850and now other channels are partof this process is just taking56200:36:41,850 --> 00:36:46,110this liquidity and sending thisliquidity on chain. So I think I56300:36:46,110 --> 00:36:52,650think we need to like that is amust. And another tool that is a56400:36:52,650 --> 00:36:56,760must in order to optimizeliquidity is slicing. So slicing56500:36:56,760 --> 00:37:01,770is a way to take a channel andchange its capacity without56600:37:01,770 --> 00:37:08,370closing it. So I can fix it oror decrease liquidity in an56700:37:08,370 --> 00:37:13,560existing channel without closingit. And reallocating liquidity56800:37:13,560 --> 00:37:14,100elsewhere.56900:37:15,570 --> 00:37:18,750So does that spin is that thatinvolves having a new address57000:37:18,750 --> 00:37:21,840that right? On the entree side?57100:37:23,190 --> 00:37:24,600Yeah, yes.57200:37:24,810 --> 00:37:29,760Yeah. Okay. So is this I guess,from what I've seen of splicing,57300:37:29,850 --> 00:37:33,270I think, see, Lightning is theonly one that has some version57400:37:33,270 --> 00:37:35,490of that at the moment. Is thatright? No57500:37:35,490 --> 00:37:40,140one is version of splicing atthe moment. A I think Casey57600:37:40,140 --> 00:37:44,490lightning our most active ondeveloping it, they have like a57700:37:44,490 --> 00:37:49,830an initial version of it, theysee lightning develop dual57800:37:49,830 --> 00:37:53,490funded channel. And dofollowchannel is kind of a basic57900:37:53,490 --> 00:37:59,040version of spicing it but itrequires more development in58000:37:59,040 --> 00:38:03,480order to add lightning threadsby sync to see lightning, but I58100:38:03,480 --> 00:38:06,150think they will even hear it. Ithink they will be the first58200:38:06,210 --> 00:38:06,810limitation to58300:38:07,110 --> 00:38:10,890this. I'm hearing a lot aboutsee lightning. And just so58400:38:10,890 --> 00:38:15,390everybody knows. Lightning labsdoesn't control the Lightning58500:38:15,390 --> 00:38:19,410Network. Although you'd thinkthey do. They think they do.58600:38:20,130 --> 00:38:24,870Well, they have Lightning as ahandle in Twitter, right?58700:38:26,730 --> 00:38:32,340Well, that says so it's good forsomething. What are the main58800:38:32,340 --> 00:38:36,360differences? See, lightning is adifferent implementation. What58900:38:36,360 --> 00:38:39,750are the main differences? Whatis it? I mean, I've seen it now59000:38:39,750 --> 00:38:44,130show up. I think the new versionof the raspy blitz has both ln D59100:38:44,130 --> 00:38:48,360and C lightning in it. What arethe some of the main differences59200:38:48,360 --> 00:38:50,910or benefits of one over theother? And how would that maybe59300:38:50,910 --> 00:38:52,080affect podcasting?59400:38:53,580 --> 00:38:59,880So that's a great question. So Ithink the the there are three59500:38:59,880 --> 00:39:03,900four major limitations inlightning and the main59600:39:03,900 --> 00:39:08,280difference. There's a couple ofdifferences between them. Mainly59700:39:08,280 --> 00:39:12,390the programming language C,lightning is written in C and59800:39:12,420 --> 00:39:20,490lnd. Go a the askingimplementation is written in59900:39:20,490 --> 00:39:21,000Scala,60000:39:21,299 --> 00:39:24,479ACI And Q. That's the Frenchguys. Yes.60100:39:25,530 --> 00:39:31,650And the end, there's a daily Kguys, a was for writing in a60200:39:31,650 --> 00:39:34,860lender, a lightning lighter inrust. So I think that's the60300:39:34,860 --> 00:39:42,150major like implementationstoday. The lightning, I think60400:39:42,180 --> 00:39:49,410there are very, they're tryingto be very efficient. So from a60500:39:49,410 --> 00:39:54,450performance standpoint, a rustyRussell who's developing is part60600:39:54,450 --> 00:39:58,380of the silicon development team.He was doing the networking60700:39:58,380 --> 00:40:03,360stuff back in the day on Linux.He's very knowledgeable about60800:40:03,870 --> 00:40:08,400performance, memory, all thestuff they're very memory60900:40:08,400 --> 00:40:14,670efficient, ever very networkingefficient. And, and they're61000:40:14,670 --> 00:40:17,250they're putting a lot ofemphasis on that. But they're61100:40:17,250 --> 00:40:25,350also I think, a trying to be asopen and standard as much as61200:40:25,350 --> 00:40:30,060possible. So they're alwaysthey're always like a cutting61300:40:30,060 --> 00:40:33,300edge when it comes tospecifications and61400:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,050standardization, for example,they're trying to push a new61500:40:37,050 --> 00:40:40,980startup called Bolt 12. Thatwill, that will be in addition61600:40:40,980 --> 00:40:47,700to both 11 where people will beable to send payments to other61700:40:47,940 --> 00:40:51,450without invoice without aninvoice. That's the basic use61800:40:51,450 --> 00:40:52,560case of both well,61900:40:52,590 --> 00:40:56,250except that it won't be key sendthem won't rely upon the same62000:40:56,250 --> 00:40:58,560type of luck to get through.62100:40:59,340 --> 00:41:07,950Yes, exactly. So yeah, so a caseand by the way, the l&d was the62200:41:07,950 --> 00:41:10,980first to implement, he said, andI'm glad they did, because they62300:41:12,780 --> 00:41:17,340unlocked all the use cases ofpodcasting. 2.0 is just one62400:41:17,340 --> 00:41:25,320example. But other use cases aswell. A now there's an and they62500:41:25,320 --> 00:41:28,800replaced keys and add thedecrease and with the ANP62600:41:28,800 --> 00:41:32,700implementation, but it didn'ttry to push it as part of the62700:41:32,700 --> 00:41:36,930lightning standard. Anythinganything that will be successful62800:41:36,930 --> 00:41:41,730and well adopted, as there hasto be inspiration has to be in62900:41:41,730 --> 00:41:45,900the standard thing has to be inthe spec and see lightning are63000:41:45,900 --> 00:41:49,740trying to push it. Both will seelightning are the only one to63100:41:49,740 --> 00:41:54,840implement dual funded channels.See, Lightning has issues, I63200:41:54,840 --> 00:41:59,580think, luckily, there's a reasonmost of the nodes are running63300:41:59,610 --> 00:42:03,420lnd. And I think one of the mainconstraints in see lightning was63400:42:03,420 --> 00:42:06,720the fact that they didn'tsupport multiple channels per63500:42:06,720 --> 00:42:13,650peer, meaning you can only openone channel per peer. So so63600:42:13,650 --> 00:42:18,180there's a reason and most of thenodes are running. l&d. It's not63700:42:18,180 --> 00:42:21,810just documentation, not justtooling, but it's also like, the63800:42:21,900 --> 00:42:25,740weird constraints that they seelightning had. I think they're63900:42:25,740 --> 00:42:27,420gonna prove that. I don't64000:42:28,500 --> 00:42:31,950know. But breezes breeze isbased on lnd. Right?64100:42:32,490 --> 00:42:37,950Yeah, yeah. But yeah, Bri isbased on l&d. The reason bridges64200:42:37,950 --> 00:42:42,090is based on melodies, becausetrees runs a node inside of your64300:42:42,090 --> 00:42:46,350mobile device. And in the Clightning implementation. I64400:42:46,350 --> 00:42:49,650don't know if you know that youprobably know that, that. It's64500:42:49,650 --> 00:42:55,110like the Unix Linux architectureof the old running processes,64600:42:55,140 --> 00:43:00,000like a pass process. Yeah. Soone process spawns another64700:43:00,000 --> 00:43:03,780process, and you don't havethese multi process capabilities64800:43:03,780 --> 00:43:09,570in mobile. So we actuallycouldn't use C lightning as part64900:43:09,570 --> 00:43:16,500of our stack, because we had toturn a l&d into a library. So we65000:43:16,620 --> 00:43:21,510it was possible to take the lndlimitation and create a library65100:43:21,510 --> 00:43:24,510out of it. But it was impossibleto do that for see lightning65200:43:24,510 --> 00:43:28,080because of this multi processarchitecture that they use.65300:43:28,260 --> 00:43:31,230It's really quite amazing whatBrees is doing. I mean, you65400:43:31,230 --> 00:43:36,180know, aside from the from like akey Send Receive, which is not65500:43:36,180 --> 00:43:39,720possible on mobile for multiplereasons. I mean, it really is65600:43:39,720 --> 00:43:42,660fun to just drop down thecommand line. Sometimes it's65700:43:42,660 --> 00:43:45,180like, I check routes andeverything a breeze really65800:43:45,180 --> 00:43:49,350becomes my toolbox. And just tosee if everything and it feels65900:43:49,350 --> 00:43:52,710really good to have that kind ofaccess to to your full node, but66000:43:52,710 --> 00:43:56,640it is kind of freakish. Nowthat's not your general use66100:43:56,640 --> 00:44:00,180case. I'm sure him is like, Hey,I can't wait to do a route check66200:44:00,180 --> 00:44:05,370in my breeze. That's somethingthat that's without a doubt66300:44:05,370 --> 00:44:09,660there's it's kind of fun, notfun. It's interesting to watch.66400:44:09,660 --> 00:44:14,430You know, we resolve ideas andthoughts and disputes all in a66500:44:14,430 --> 00:44:17,730Mastadon setting. I'm not Ithink I don't know exactly how66600:44:17,730 --> 00:44:20,250this goes in the in thelightning development world. But66700:44:20,250 --> 00:44:23,190there's lots of rumblings andthere's people's getting you66800:44:23,220 --> 00:44:25,770getting kind of nasty with eachother and a little bit of a66900:44:25,770 --> 00:44:30,990flame flame war, I guess what?So what are the real problems?67000:44:30,990 --> 00:44:34,140And are they problems we need tobe thinking of is there are67100:44:34,140 --> 00:44:37,200there solutions that are goingto get better for for what we're67200:44:37,200 --> 00:44:40,440trying to do with with streamingwith value for value streaming67300:44:40,440 --> 00:44:43,140payments. I'm saying thatspecifically because I see this67400:44:43,140 --> 00:44:48,570working for music and for booksand many, many other things. And67500:44:49,980 --> 00:44:52,170yeah, and I guess we shouldprobably move that into the67600:44:52,170 --> 00:44:54,510realm of messaging because thatseems to be one of the big67700:44:54,510 --> 00:44:55,350disputes.67800:44:56,040 --> 00:45:00,630Yes. So I think you touched on avery important point I think67900:45:00,810 --> 00:45:04,830they kind of the externalizationprocess. When we started, by the68000:45:04,830 --> 00:45:13,740way, we started in mid 2018.There was a standard, a standard68100:45:13,740 --> 00:45:17,700process, the whole process inplace, it's still in place, but68200:45:18,030 --> 00:45:23,760it moved very quickly, veryefficiently in 2018, and in68300:45:23,760 --> 00:45:32,4602019. And the process kind ofaltered in 2020, late 2020, more68400:45:32,940 --> 00:45:38,7302021. And still, it's still it'sslow moving. And can you guess68500:45:38,730 --> 00:45:41,790the reason for that? endemic?68600:45:43,500 --> 00:45:47,310It's probably not pandemic, no,no, you don't get you don't get68700:45:47,310 --> 00:45:49,080to use COVID as an excuse.68800:45:49,290 --> 00:45:54,150I was never really Yes. And I'lltell you why. I think because68900:45:54,150 --> 00:45:57,480people are not being able tomeet face to face. Yeah. And69000:45:57,480 --> 00:46:04,200hash their issues, face to face.I think it creates an issue. And69100:46:04,200 --> 00:46:09,000I think all the stuff that we'reseeing now are is is a result of69200:46:09,000 --> 00:46:14,010miscommunication that and thenthere's like kind of a war. All69300:46:14,010 --> 00:46:18,390right now in the last couple ofdays in Twitter. There wasn't an69400:46:18,390 --> 00:46:23,580email from Alex postwar from l&dand and the rusty and the69500:46:23,580 --> 00:46:29,520Rusty's is calling out to Alexand l&d and the app sync folks69600:46:29,520 --> 00:46:36,690are also joined the party we'dcalling out l&d And I think I69700:46:36,690 --> 00:46:41,040think I know all the teams thatpersonally, and I think everyone69800:46:41,040 --> 00:46:44,580wants the best for lightning,maybe they have different69900:46:44,580 --> 00:46:47,490constraints and differentstructures to execute on that.70000:46:47,520 --> 00:46:52,530But I think we're talking aboutgood people with a lot of70100:46:52,800 --> 00:46:58,290motivation to contribute and,and, and have an open standard70200:46:58,290 --> 00:47:04,350network. And I think that thereason that it isn't really a70300:47:04,890 --> 00:47:09,450doesn't really hasn't beenworking lately is because people70400:47:09,450 --> 00:47:12,870are not just not communicating,not working with each other.70500:47:13,230 --> 00:47:15,570yelling at each other onTwitter. That's pretty much the70600:47:15,570 --> 00:47:16,740bottom of the barrel.70700:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,140Hmm, yeah. But maybe it's a goodthing. But the only way is up70800:47:22,140 --> 00:47:22,740from here.70900:47:22,890 --> 00:47:27,180So what what is what is the coreproblem? I mean, so we because71000:47:27,180 --> 00:47:29,490well, the spec is movingforward, all 12.71100:47:30,330 --> 00:47:34,650Lightning, and lightning Labs isnot embracing both 12 as fast as71200:47:34,650 --> 00:47:35,460I think everybody wants.71300:47:36,360 --> 00:47:41,820Okay, yeah. And by the way, ifyou look at the Alex's email,71400:47:41,820 --> 00:47:45,300Alex basically said, like, maybewe don't need the71500:47:45,330 --> 00:47:49,950standardization, and refreezing.But maybe we don't need71600:47:49,950 --> 00:47:53,520socialization process, becausewe can pull, push out features71700:47:53,520 --> 00:47:56,130that we want to push and focuson the things we want to push71800:47:56,130 --> 00:48:02,040because we own and we likeusers, right? 9090 plus percent71900:48:02,040 --> 00:48:04,890of the nodes are running on lnd.So why do we care?72000:48:07,530 --> 00:48:08,790Right, right, right, right.72100:48:09,810 --> 00:48:13,050Again, I'm rephrasing I don'tremember the exact words, but I72200:48:13,050 --> 00:48:15,900think that's why people getupset. But if you continue to72300:48:15,900 --> 00:48:21,360read Alex's email, he raises inlegitimate concerns around a72400:48:21,390 --> 00:48:24,090around both wealth. And I thinkthat goes back to what you had72500:48:24,150 --> 00:48:28,800asked the Adam regardingmessaging, because part of the72600:48:28,800 --> 00:48:33,540bowl will have specification, weneed an ability to communicate72700:48:33,570 --> 00:48:39,510between peers. And so there arenew types of messaging where72800:48:39,510 --> 00:48:42,810people can send the notes cansend other notes and messages.72900:48:43,410 --> 00:48:46,710And Alex is worried. Andfrankly, I'm worried as well,73000:48:46,710 --> 00:48:51,540that that it these messages willbe used as a generic messaging73100:48:51,570 --> 00:48:52,350infrastructure.73200:48:52,980 --> 00:48:57,540Yeah, I think a lot of this goesto me, this argument in the73300:48:57,540 --> 00:49:01,230lightning world, or this debatein the lightning world is very73400:49:01,230 --> 00:49:05,460similar to the to the debatewithin Bitcoin Core about73500:49:05,460 --> 00:49:09,000whether or not to increase blocksize, that they feel very73600:49:09,000 --> 00:49:14,580similar to me, because therethere is, there's a legitimate73700:49:14,580 --> 00:49:19,920concern about you aboutlightning, because people trying73800:49:19,920 --> 00:49:23,640to stuff things into lightningmessaging that really should not73900:49:23,640 --> 00:49:28,290be there. And because as soon asyou open up a generic channel74000:49:28,290 --> 00:49:32,070for doing things like binarytransfers over Lightning74100:49:32,250 --> 00:49:35,940Network, you mean hey, we're74200:49:35,940 --> 00:49:39,180gonna do podcasting overLightning Network? Yeah. Can we74300:49:39,180 --> 00:49:40,260do an attachment?74400:49:40,770 --> 00:49:43,380Everybody the reason for that?becomes74500:49:44,820 --> 00:49:48,870COVID Davies, because I think noone wants that, by the way,74600:49:48,930 --> 00:49:54,360like, and there's no singleimplementation that wants to use74700:49:54,390 --> 00:49:58,770a lightning is a genericmessaging platform, or a generic74800:49:58,770 --> 00:50:03,120messaging infrastructure. Notnot see lightning, not the ASIC74900:50:03,120 --> 00:50:07,980not l&d and not educate, no onewants that there needs to be a75000:50:08,010 --> 00:50:11,100to some degree messagingcapabilities in order to enable75100:50:11,100 --> 00:50:16,770payment features. So we need toexecute that very carefully. And75200:50:16,770 --> 00:50:22,290we need to add that a to the, tothe standard and to the75300:50:22,290 --> 00:50:27,990specification. But we need tomake sure this tools in this new75400:50:28,260 --> 00:50:31,560utilities aren't being abused. A75500:50:32,760 --> 00:50:37,470is isn't. Isn't booster grammingby itself kind of abusing that75600:50:37,470 --> 00:50:37,770then?75700:50:38,430 --> 00:50:40,860No, I don't think so. I thinkbooster grams is a great75800:50:40,860 --> 00:50:45,960addition to lightning because ituses something called TLV. Until75900:50:45,960 --> 00:50:50,880V is is an extension to apayment, you can't boost without76000:50:50,910 --> 00:50:56,970payment. Right? Correct. So Ithink he can utilize the core.76100:50:57,900 --> 00:51:01,770I'm liking the I'm reading. I'mreading the the email now by the76200:51:01,770 --> 00:51:04,950way, it's badass to postsomebody's email in a VI76300:51:04,950 --> 00:51:08,100session. That with the numberson the side. That's pretty cool.76400:51:08,850 --> 00:51:12,810That's that's nerdy right there.But I guess the some of the76500:51:12,810 --> 00:51:18,780dispute is about no cost peer topeer messaging.76600:51:20,220 --> 00:51:21,090Yeah,76700:51:21,180 --> 00:51:23,580again, I don't think there's aTo be honest, I don't think76800:51:23,580 --> 00:51:28,230there's a real dispute becauseno one wants a liking to be used76900:51:28,230 --> 00:51:31,410as a generic messaginginfrastructure. And no one wants77000:51:31,410 --> 00:51:33,120lightning to become the new CanI just77100:51:33,120 --> 00:51:36,180say something Roy, every singledeveloper who has been at77200:51:36,180 --> 00:51:40,380podcasting 2.0, who has seenthis work, and particularly with77300:51:40,380 --> 00:51:43,920heli pad, the first thing theyall want to do is create a reply77400:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,820button. And that's my intuition,too. It's like, oh, I want to77500:51:47,820 --> 00:51:49,440reply to these messages.77600:51:49,799 --> 00:51:53,429Why not? But you can if you payfor them. I'm fine for you that77700:51:53,459 --> 00:51:57,959because it means that therouting nodes have incentives.77800:51:59,069 --> 00:52:00,719Okay, people need to understanddon't77900:52:00,960 --> 00:52:04,170we want that we want people Iwant people to hit boost me, I78000:52:04,170 --> 00:52:07,590want you to tell me that I suckand send me 10,000 SATs. That's78100:52:07,620 --> 00:52:08,850that's the whole point.78200:52:09,270 --> 00:52:12,750Exactly. Exactly. So that's thereason I like booster gram. And78300:52:12,750 --> 00:52:15,990by the way we what we did inbraces to put was to REM is like78400:52:15,990 --> 00:52:18,990the default. The default boost a78500:52:18,990 --> 00:52:23,100very confused, very confusing,Mr. Roy. Okay, do you know how78600:52:23,100 --> 00:52:26,520many times I go to the breezeapp and I hold down the button78700:52:26,520 --> 00:52:32,250and it goes because I'm thinkinga message it's gonna pop up. You78800:52:32,250 --> 00:52:35,520could you bro, you broke my UXbrother. I'm like, oh my god, I78900:52:35,520 --> 00:52:38,250just boosted 8000 SATs in onego.79000:52:41,490 --> 00:52:43,410That happens with early adoptersthat Oh79100:52:43,410 --> 00:52:47,490my God. Every other app thatdoes it exactly the opposite79200:52:47,490 --> 00:52:47,940way.79300:52:50,880 --> 00:52:55,470I wouldn't worry too much aboutit because they eventually they79400:52:55,470 --> 00:52:56,490do what we do at the79500:52:56,490 --> 00:53:01,050end. Oh, man, did you hear thatmassage? Shit. Dave, that was79600:53:01,050 --> 00:53:05,100that was That was harsh man. Canyou do about the vont?79700:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,420I think with with with the appslike caliper, I think a booster79800:53:09,420 --> 00:53:13,380gram is really the way tocommunicate between between79900:53:13,380 --> 00:53:17,940listeners and podcasters. And Ithink this feature need to be80000:53:17,940 --> 00:53:21,300exposed to that out that was ourway to expose it.80100:53:21,360 --> 00:53:24,750I love that you put it in there.Obviously I'm just I'm just80200:53:24,780 --> 00:53:25,890giving you a hard time.80300:53:26,279 --> 00:53:30,179What? Tell me this though, tellme. One question I have is what?80400:53:30,389 --> 00:53:34,769Why? Why did you limit or decideto limit the booster gram length80500:53:34,769 --> 00:53:37,889to 90 characters? Or was thatjust a just pick off the top of80600:53:37,889 --> 00:53:39,539your head? Or what was thethinking there?80700:53:40,290 --> 00:53:46,350Is the thinking is again it goesback to are we using Lightning80800:53:46,350 --> 00:53:49,740as the as the messagingplatform. I don't want to spam80900:53:49,740 --> 00:53:55,680the network too much with toomuch data. So so I don't want to81000:53:55,800 --> 00:54:01,080like DDoS attacks and I want toprotect a I wanted to protect81100:54:01,080 --> 00:54:08,070the day, the infrastructure andthe platform. Is that what's81200:54:08,070 --> 00:54:11,640your what's the what's thewhat's the message? Like? I81300:54:11,700 --> 00:54:15,270listened to the bill at thebeginning to the booster gram81400:54:15,270 --> 00:54:19,830that Adam received, I guessmaybe we need to increase the81500:54:19,830 --> 00:54:20,400wish to grow.81600:54:20,460 --> 00:54:23,850It's a little short. It's alittle short. And yes, yeah.81700:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,930What what has seen what I'veseen a lot is is that the81800:54:27,930 --> 00:54:33,300standard seems to be roughlyabout the size of a of a Twitter81900:54:33,300 --> 00:54:37,740to Mastadon message like between250 to 500 characters roughly82000:54:37,770 --> 00:54:43,350okay. 250 is 250 is fine for me,honestly, because on the82100:54:43,350 --> 00:54:47,520receiving end of this stuff, ifyou give you give people a82200:54:47,520 --> 00:54:52,200bucket, they're going to fill itup. And I I agree with you in82300:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,790the spirit. The spirit of abooster gram is short and I82400:54:56,790 --> 00:55:00,990really love keeping that shortbut I run now There's something82500:55:00,990 --> 00:55:03,840to be said for what you're doingthere because I have literally82600:55:03,840 --> 00:55:09,090boost the grant twice to get mymessage in. So this not saying82700:55:09,090 --> 00:55:12,450that I'm against the idea oflimiting that, because it does82800:55:12,450 --> 00:55:14,310kind of force you into doing itagain.82900:55:15,870 --> 00:55:20,400So we did 90 characters, there'sno question like, Hey, I'm sure83000:55:20,400 --> 00:55:26,250that we can handle it. And I'mnot worried about it with 256.83100:55:26,250 --> 00:55:30,960Or I don't know how manycharacters and I would go and83200:55:30,990 --> 00:55:36,150check with the with l&d andcheck with, see lightning, what83300:55:36,150 --> 00:55:40,350do they think like if that's agood number to use? Because at83400:55:40,350 --> 00:55:43,260the end of the day, keep inmind, there is additional83500:55:43,260 --> 00:55:47,700information that we send as partof this payment. It's not just83600:55:47,700 --> 00:55:51,780the booster grant, right. It'salso the timestamp, the podcast,83700:55:51,810 --> 00:55:54,090the name, the podcastingepisode, like83800:55:55,170 --> 00:55:58,350comic comics, or job data,comics or Blogger just sends83900:55:58,350 --> 00:56:00,900entire books with his boostergrams, and it screws up84000:56:00,900 --> 00:56:01,440everything.84100:56:03,990 --> 00:56:05,490It was the list of times it was84200:56:05,520 --> 00:56:08,400Yeah, but these these are reallyquality problems to have. And84300:56:08,400 --> 00:56:11,790I'm kind of enjoying I'm not I'mvery much enjoying the84400:56:11,790 --> 00:56:16,530conversation. And it was therewas a second part to John84500:56:16,530 --> 00:56:20,820Spurlock was also on pod land.And talking about because you84600:56:20,820 --> 00:56:25,620know, Roy, we're doing cross appcomments. And there was actually84700:56:26,070 --> 00:56:28,950a remark made, they said, well,it's not really a good thing. We84800:56:28,950 --> 00:56:31,320already have messaging withbooster grams. And you know,84900:56:31,320 --> 00:56:34,440comments may be confusing. And Ithought to myself, no, it's two85000:56:34,440 --> 00:56:40,320separate things. It's really,but but I can also see a use85100:56:40,320 --> 00:56:44,580case where, like a super chat onYouTube booster gram show up in85200:56:44,580 --> 00:56:49,230the chat. You know, or maybethere's a way for you, for us to85300:56:49,230 --> 00:56:54,000say, okay, um, maybe, I don'tknow, maybe you could say, oh,85400:56:54,000 --> 00:56:56,340you have to you have to pay topost here, you know, kind of85500:56:56,340 --> 00:57:00,600like the the Sphinx model, whichI don't know if that's85600:57:00,600 --> 00:57:05,070technically possible, butthere's definitely integrations85700:57:05,070 --> 00:57:14,070there, although it's twoseparate things. Oh. Yeah. No.85800:57:14,490 --> 00:57:16,950Well, I was wondering what youare, if you have any thoughts on85900:57:16,950 --> 00:57:17,160it?86000:57:17,640 --> 00:57:21,240Oh, me? No. Well, no, I thinkthey're, I think they're two86100:57:21,240 --> 00:57:24,960separate things. Like, I thinklike, if I don't know, Roy, if86200:57:24,960 --> 00:57:30,030you saw, he probably didn't wewe did like a live test. We did86300:57:30,030 --> 00:57:30,660a test. Yeah,86400:57:30,660 --> 00:57:33,210I saw. I'm following them onTwitter. So.86500:57:33,600 --> 00:57:40,440Okay. Yeah. And so we we didthat live last Sunday. And what86600:57:40,860 --> 00:57:44,070what Sir Spencer had done, and Idon't think it was him. I think86700:57:44,070 --> 00:57:51,930it was a C dubs or somethinglike that. They had created a, a86800:57:51,930 --> 00:57:57,870bot to except to watch the gRPCstream coming out of lnd. And86900:57:57,870 --> 00:58:03,210then as those boosts came intothe node, people would boost to87000:58:03,240 --> 00:58:07,980the live stream through apodcast app. And then as that87100:58:08,010 --> 00:58:12,210those boosts came in, it wouldtranslate them into an IRC chat.87200:58:12,540 --> 00:58:14,280Message as sexy as hell.87300:58:16,020 --> 00:58:19,740So you end up with whatliterally it looks exactly like87400:58:19,740 --> 00:58:23,160a YouTube Super Chat, bot.87500:58:23,790 --> 00:58:26,580Little bot with little asterix,like I'm a bot and look at the87600:58:26,580 --> 00:58:28,200here's the message is beautiful.87700:58:28,440 --> 00:58:30,750Yeah. And to me, that's fun. Theuse case like that is87800:58:30,750 --> 00:58:33,690fundamentally different thansomething like a cross app87900:58:33,690 --> 00:58:36,570comment, which is meant to besort of permanent, whereas the88000:58:36,570 --> 00:58:39,630other things are or where thelive chat is, like more88100:58:39,630 --> 00:58:40,230ephemeral,88200:58:40,290 --> 00:58:42,720but just shooting from the justshooting from the hip here, just88300:58:42,720 --> 00:58:47,190as a nutty idea, since we'relooking at Pew pew. Since we're88400:58:47,190 --> 00:58:50,850looking at activity pub. Oh, no,we're not I'm sorry. We are88500:58:50,850 --> 00:58:54,810actively using activity pub forthe cross app comments. Is there88600:58:54,810 --> 00:59:01,260a way to tie in paint like apayment portion to that so it88700:59:01,260 --> 00:59:05,250may be totally unnecessary, butI'm just I always enjoyed the88800:59:05,280 --> 00:59:12,180the Sphinx idea of it cost you10 sets to post a message. Is88900:59:12,180 --> 00:59:16,620there a way to tie in paymentsinto activity pub? Just and89000:59:16,620 --> 00:59:18,600that's more of a lightningquestion, I guess, than a89100:59:18,780 --> 00:59:20,460podcasting. 2.0 question.89200:59:22,170 --> 00:59:24,930Yeah, I mean, anything with agateway? You know, you just have89300:59:24,930 --> 00:59:29,880to have some sort of gateway togo in and out. And that's,89400:59:29,940 --> 00:59:34,470that's really where, you know,this is sort of let me let me89500:59:34,470 --> 00:59:38,490back into this because I want Ido have a question to Roy that I89600:59:38,490 --> 00:59:42,600think, is kind of has kind ofrelated to this, and it's89700:59:42,600 --> 00:59:45,180something that's been, you know,we've been trying to figure out89800:59:45,180 --> 00:59:49,650and I say what I mean by we isvarious people I've talked to in89900:59:49,650 --> 00:59:55,410the podcasting world. You know,we've been trying to in this90000:59:55,410 --> 00:59:58,680just kind of keeps coming up,trying to figure out a way to90100:59:58,680 --> 01:00:06,600make all this stuff work whereit's legal, you know, legal, and90201:00:06,630 --> 01:00:10,740all the custodian people wantto, you're dealing with funds90301:00:10,740 --> 01:00:13,740here you're dealing with withwith financial things. And so90401:00:14,220 --> 01:00:18,450like, like braze can't acceptkeys and payments. So what we've90501:00:18,450 --> 01:00:20,250been left with is things like lnpay.90601:00:20,970 --> 01:00:24,840And custodial versus noncustodial. Yeah, the custodial90701:00:24,840 --> 01:00:28,560versus non custodian. So like,I'm less interested in that sort90801:00:28,560 --> 01:00:30,870of idea, the custodial, noncustodial, then just just90901:00:30,870 --> 01:00:37,140there's more, more directquestion, which is, Can all of91001:00:37,140 --> 01:00:42,840these things be done long termin a way that doesn't require91101:00:42,840 --> 01:00:48,510like custodial liquidity. Andwhat I mean is, like we, for91201:00:48,510 --> 01:00:52,260instance, what Adam describedearlier, with the podcast index91301:00:52,260 --> 01:00:56,400node is in order a podcaster,comes online with an Umbral or a91401:00:56,400 --> 01:01:00,660recipe Blitz, and we open up100,000 side channel to them to91501:01:00,660 --> 01:01:04,230give them some inboundliquidity. And that's fine,91601:01:04,620 --> 01:01:09,360except that it's is notefficient use of liquidity, and91701:01:10,470 --> 01:01:16,260that you end up with a singlenode that has 150 channels. But,91801:01:17,040 --> 01:01:19,560you know, the only way I canimagine to get around that is91901:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,960through custodial levelliquidity where you have92001:01:22,440 --> 01:01:23,940something like Ellen pay,92101:01:24,000 --> 01:01:27,150which has its own problems.During the live, we saw that it92201:01:27,150 --> 01:01:29,940had its own issues of overload.92301:01:30,779 --> 01:01:34,019Yeah. So you bet you need somecentral thing there that has,92401:01:34,019 --> 01:01:37,229you know, 10 million sets ofliquidity. So I think we're92501:01:37,229 --> 01:01:37,679talking to92601:01:37,680 --> 01:01:40,710the right guy. I think thelightning service providers is92701:01:40,710 --> 01:01:42,840his job, although I don't knowwhat he does.92801:01:45,480 --> 01:01:47,160I don't I don't do anything.Really?92901:01:47,430 --> 01:01:50,880I know. I still don't know whatyou do you just on the telegram93001:01:50,880 --> 01:01:53,340all day, as far as I'mconcerned, you may not even work93101:01:53,340 --> 01:01:56,010for Brees would just be their PRguy.93201:01:57,510 --> 01:02:06,030Hey. So yeah, that's I thinkyou're getting to the heart of93301:02:06,360 --> 01:02:10,770the issues with lightning today.By the way, that's the reason I93401:02:10,770 --> 01:02:14,100started breeze, I started breezebecause I believe we can create93501:02:14,100 --> 01:02:17,940a noncustodial user experiencethat is on par with what93601:02:17,940 --> 01:02:25,710custodial solution has to offer.A so. So what I think needs to93701:02:25,710 --> 01:02:30,660happen is this notion of an LSP,enlightening service provider,93801:02:30,810 --> 01:02:35,040kind of the entity that connectsand user to network, we need93901:02:35,220 --> 01:02:41,730more or less these. And we needwe need competition of LSPs that94001:02:41,730 --> 01:02:45,510will bring the prices down. Butfor me, let's talk about user94101:02:45,510 --> 01:02:49,950experience. Okay, why why whenwhen you use breeze, what's94201:02:50,490 --> 01:02:54,360what's the main differencebetween a breeze and a custodial94301:02:54,360 --> 01:02:57,690wallet? The main difference andthe main caveat is you can't94401:02:57,690 --> 01:03:02,910receive an offline payment usingbreeze. And and that's because94501:03:02,910 --> 01:03:08,610it mobile nodes are mostlyoffline. That's that's the94601:03:08,820 --> 01:03:11,130that's the that's the realwinner. Can94701:03:11,130 --> 01:03:13,260you explain what you mean by anoffline payment?94801:03:14,700 --> 01:03:18,630Yeah, so So breeze runs in NodeA spark. So let's let's talk94901:03:18,630 --> 01:03:22,500about custodial solutions. Okay,yeah, please, what, when you95001:03:22,500 --> 01:03:28,320have a wallet like a wallet ofSatoshi, or let's say, a blue95101:03:28,320 --> 01:03:32,820wallet, and still there, they'reswitching to LD cake. But let's95201:03:32,820 --> 01:03:35,820talk about their existingoffering. It's a it's a95301:03:35,820 --> 01:03:40,320custodial lightning solution,meaning they use one node or95401:03:40,320 --> 01:03:44,640multiple nodes, but they usetheir own nodes in order in95501:03:44,640 --> 01:03:49,950order to manage the funds andusers are just entry in the in a95601:03:49,950 --> 01:03:54,540database somewhere right? Sothey they know how to split the95701:03:54,540 --> 01:03:58,950funds between different usersbased on their own accounting95801:03:59,040 --> 01:04:02,640and they can tap into your fundsthey can steal your funds they95901:04:02,640 --> 01:04:08,910can do with the with your funds,whatever they like a so you're96001:04:08,940 --> 01:04:13,890trusting them to manage yourfriends and they have total96101:04:13,890 --> 01:04:18,090control of your funds. And thisis for me that that's not96201:04:18,090 --> 01:04:19,680Bitcoin or or worse96301:04:19,710 --> 01:04:23,430or worse, just explain it eveneven better. You might have96401:04:23,430 --> 01:04:26,880donated $50 to some proteststhat might have involved some96501:04:26,880 --> 01:04:32,310truckers and the Government ofCanada goes and says hey, we96601:04:32,310 --> 01:04:35,040don't want that shit happening.And they go straight to your96701:04:35,250 --> 01:04:39,300your your blue wallet, guys orwhatever and they say cut them96801:04:39,300 --> 01:04:39,900all off.96901:04:42,750 --> 01:04:44,490Of course and then they canseize the funds97001:04:44,580 --> 01:04:47,280right which is which is a realthing is my point is that's97101:04:47,280 --> 01:04:49,140happening right now in ourworld.97201:04:50,010 --> 01:04:52,590That's happening on exchangesand that will happen97301:04:52,590 --> 01:04:56,520noncustodial wallet, by the way.It's wrong to call custodial97401:04:56,520 --> 01:04:58,860wallets, wallets, it's moreaccounts when you talk97501:04:58,890 --> 01:05:03,210about it. So login, you got tolog in. Exactly.97601:05:03,240 --> 01:05:07,350So So whenever you have anaccount, and the your funds in97701:05:07,350 --> 01:05:11,130the account can be seized, I am,I'm not even talking about the97801:05:11,130 --> 01:05:16,230privacy and right and this kindof issues, just like the97901:05:16,260 --> 01:05:20,580custodial party, the havingcontrol over your funds. So what98001:05:20,580 --> 01:05:26,880I, what I wish we thought wesought out to do in breeze is to98101:05:26,880 --> 01:05:30,840provide a noncustodial solutionthat will be on par in terms of98201:05:30,840 --> 01:05:38,670user experience in terms of whenit comes to lightning payments.98301:05:38,700 --> 01:05:44,430So in bridge right now, when youreceive funds, we actually open98401:05:44,430 --> 01:05:49,830the channel on the fly to endusers. And we use the funds that98501:05:49,830 --> 01:05:55,410we receive in order to fund thischannel. So unlike what you guys98601:05:55,410 --> 01:05:59,070are doing with podcasting 2.0 Wethought we don't just give we98701:05:59,070 --> 01:06:04,950provide an additional amount ofinbound liquidity. But the the98801:06:04,980 --> 01:06:09,780most of the liquidity actuallycomes from our users. And we're98901:06:09,780 --> 01:06:13,470using zero comms channels inorder to provide them with the99001:06:13,470 --> 01:06:18,330ability to spend the fundsimmediately after receiving99101:06:18,330 --> 01:06:21,240right. I think that's the maindifference. So liquidity99201:06:21,240 --> 01:06:27,960actually, in our use case comesfrom a user's app. And Phoenix99301:06:27,960 --> 01:06:30,840and moon are doing the samething. And I think,99401:06:31,110 --> 01:06:33,930yeah, I was gonna say, so thekind of the liquidity providers99501:06:33,990 --> 01:06:41,430version 1.0 was like, theservices where you can, you99601:06:41,430 --> 01:06:44,550know, pay 10%, or whatever, andyou get a channel for a month,99701:06:44,610 --> 01:06:48,150that was kind of the earlyversion of liquidity providers.99801:06:48,990 --> 01:06:52,800I think the early version ofliquidity providers that, by the99901:06:52,800 --> 01:06:56,010way, we actually implementedbraces that we open the 1100001:06:56,010 --> 01:07:00,960million Satoshi channel to enduser for free. That was version100101:07:00,990 --> 01:07:02,910that's a bad, that's a badbusiness model.100201:07:03,810 --> 01:07:08,430Yeah, but we did that on purposein order to learn to understand100301:07:08,430 --> 01:07:11,670the use cases and how people areusing like, here's where100401:07:11,670 --> 01:07:14,700we're at now. Exactly. We'realso figuring it out now, like,100501:07:14,700 --> 01:07:16,860Okay, how are people using it,but all of this could go away100601:07:16,860 --> 01:07:18,480for us is what I'm hearing yousay?100701:07:19,290 --> 01:07:23,760So yeah, so what I'm saying isthat, when you create channels100801:07:23,760 --> 01:07:29,220on the fly, you can reuse theliquidity in sent right to to100901:07:29,220 --> 01:07:33,810users, in order to open thechannels. You don't say I like101001:07:33,870 --> 01:07:38,940Open the Channels upfront, youopen the channel as a reaction101101:07:38,970 --> 01:07:44,160to receiving the funding thefunds. Yeah, yeah. Yes. Is so101201:07:44,160 --> 01:07:47,010that that mitigates this kind ofissue?101301:07:47,430 --> 01:07:51,480Right? Yes. Yes. Where you takea small percentage for opening101401:07:51,480 --> 01:07:54,000the channel, you take that ofthe initial funding. Okay. Yeah.101501:07:54,000 --> 01:07:56,490Well, that's great. That makestotal sense. Yeah,101601:07:56,520 --> 01:08:00,540yeah. So we take a smallprocessions, by the way maybe101701:08:00,540 --> 01:08:06,270when will we will route more ina different scale and maybe fees101801:08:06,270 --> 01:08:11,070will be higher, maybe we can wecan do that for free. But for101901:08:11,070 --> 01:08:15,510now, in order to offset some ofour expenses, we we do take a102001:08:15,510 --> 01:08:19,170small fee when you open it whenwe open the channel on the102101:08:19,170 --> 01:08:22,110flight and you don't have enoughinbound liquidity.102201:08:22,770 --> 01:08:26,010And that that's that's what azero comp channel is. I mean,102301:08:26,040 --> 01:08:29,280that it's a it's a pre it'sopening a channel before the102401:08:29,280 --> 01:08:30,750payments settled on chain right.102501:08:32,100 --> 01:08:37,710So to two to two concepts twoterms and which which serve102601:08:37,800 --> 01:08:38,940different turbo I guess it's a102701:08:38,940 --> 01:08:39,870turbo channel really.102801:08:40,620 --> 01:08:44,430One One is a channel it iscreating channels on the fly.102901:08:44,460 --> 01:08:48,750This actually is the abilitythat you need in order to open a103001:08:48,750 --> 01:08:53,160channel in order to a as aresponse to receiving funds103101:08:53,190 --> 01:08:57,300that's one term I don't like theuse is zero confront turbo103201:08:57,300 --> 01:09:00,870channels are the same. I don'tlike the marketing name of tuber103301:09:00,870 --> 01:09:06,870channels. So I use zero calmbecause it exposes the expose103401:09:06,870 --> 01:09:11,640the nature of the channel, zerocons channel means you trust103501:09:11,760 --> 01:09:15,750breeze, a until the channel isconfirmed. So zero coins103601:09:15,750 --> 01:09:20,610channeled provides the abilityto spend the funds immediately103701:09:20,610 --> 01:09:23,850after receiving them withoutwaiting for on chain103801:09:23,850 --> 01:09:28,020confirmation. So you can installbreeze receive payment and spend103901:09:28,020 --> 01:09:31,530this payment immediately withoutwaiting for origin confirmation.104001:09:31,590 --> 01:09:34,560And this is a zero pointchannel. It's kind of different104101:09:34,560 --> 01:09:40,620from channel on the fly. Like soI think with this new104201:09:40,620 --> 01:09:45,450infrastructure, this is stuffthat we worked on during 2020104301:09:45,450 --> 01:09:49,260and still improving. I thinkthis mitigates really the no104401:09:49,260 --> 01:09:52,290with the inbound liquidity issuebecause you don't need in one104501:09:52,290 --> 01:09:55,560liquidity. The inbound liquidityis the inbound liquidity the104601:09:55,560 --> 01:10:00,900user that users provide and gotit so you don't So you don't104701:10:00,900 --> 01:10:05,700need like a central entity andstuff like that you need to as104801:10:05,700 --> 01:10:10,380an LSP, you need to have enoughliquidity in order to serve a104901:10:10,410 --> 01:10:16,320dynamically the users that arecoming to your A to your node105001:10:16,350 --> 01:10:20,520and asking for channels to be tobe created. But that's it, you105101:10:20,520 --> 01:10:24,510don't need like, we can talkabout liquidity management after105201:10:24,510 --> 01:10:29,160but it's a complicated topic.The thing is the main issue that105301:10:29,670 --> 01:10:34,500that doesn't solve, unlikecustodial solution, when you run105401:10:34,530 --> 01:10:39,210a node on your mobile device, toknow that actually runs only105501:10:39,210 --> 01:10:45,810when the app is active, ameaning you can receive bands105601:10:45,870 --> 01:10:50,010only when the app is active. Nowthere are ways to work around105701:10:50,010 --> 01:10:55,050that. Like you can use a GSM andmobile notification in order to105801:10:55,050 --> 01:10:58,830wake the app and stuff likethat. But it's really unreliable105901:10:58,920 --> 01:11:03,810with the current mobileoperating systems. And it's not106001:11:03,810 --> 01:11:09,390solution that is inherit a two,two lightning, meaning it's not106101:11:09,390 --> 01:11:12,690self contained in lightning,what what what will happen if106201:11:12,690 --> 01:11:16,710you want to run in lightningapplication in your browser, or106301:11:16,740 --> 01:11:20,520in another device? So we need tohave a way in earth, really to106401:11:20,520 --> 01:11:23,880be on par with custodialsolution? We need to have a way106501:11:23,880 --> 01:11:27,360to receive payments, even ifyou're not running your node106601:11:27,510 --> 01:11:28,110actively.106701:11:29,130 --> 01:11:31,560Right. But that requiressomething in the cloud106801:11:31,560 --> 01:11:32,760listening, then I presume?106901:11:34,230 --> 01:11:38,970Yes, yes, that's definitely partof the solution. And maybe using107001:11:38,970 --> 01:11:42,900other nodes in order to delegatethe receive functions to other107101:11:42,900 --> 01:11:46,170nodes in the network. Nodes thatyou know, that will be online,107201:11:46,260 --> 01:11:50,850maybe you use your own nodes inthe cloud, like a watch our like107301:11:50,880 --> 01:11:52,410you have watched our notes that107401:11:53,670 --> 01:11:58,740this is very interesting. Thisis because this is where the107501:11:58,920 --> 01:12:03,420this is. This is where we thewallet metaphor has to go away.107601:12:04,680 --> 01:12:09,120Because I understand, whatyou're saying is you can have a107701:12:09,120 --> 01:12:13,890noncustodial solution, as longas your key is on your phone for107801:12:13,890 --> 01:12:17,940sending receiving doesn't reallymatter that much. Is that what107901:12:17,940 --> 01:12:18,510you're saying?108001:12:19,080 --> 01:12:23,370Yes, yes, that's exactly whatI'm saying. I think we solutions108101:12:23,370 --> 01:12:29,520like a PLCs, there will be anoption in lightning, to split108201:12:29,520 --> 01:12:34,530the keys and to have differentkeys for different actions. I108301:12:34,530 --> 01:12:41,580can imagine the future a userusers will have a way to give108401:12:41,580 --> 01:12:46,590receive keys to other nodes, andthen tell them like I'm108501:12:46,620 --> 01:12:47,430delegating the108601:12:48,630 --> 01:12:51,090right. Okay, oh, that's a coolidea.108701:12:51,480 --> 01:12:55,200And use this key in order to dothat. And I can revoke this key108801:12:55,200 --> 01:13:01,140whenever I want. So the user cancontrol the key. But if we will108901:13:01,140 --> 01:13:06,810have the ability to have tosplit the keys, the lightning109001:13:06,810 --> 01:13:12,390keys to two differentapplications. One is for sending109101:13:12,420 --> 01:13:19,110and the other for receiving,then a I can delegate the node109201:13:19,320 --> 01:13:24,030because I don't want other nodesto spend my funds that but I can109301:13:24,030 --> 01:13:30,120trust another node to receivefunds on my behalf. The only109401:13:30,120 --> 01:13:33,780thing the only thing that I'mlosing is kind of the trust,109501:13:33,810 --> 01:13:38,550there's a trust element that Itrust this note to accept the109601:13:38,580 --> 01:13:41,730funds on my behalf. That's theonly downside.109701:13:43,020 --> 01:13:46,050Well, that reminds me ofsomething like it's a model very109801:13:46,050 --> 01:13:50,580similar to pop three. So nobodyruns their own email server. But109901:13:50,730 --> 01:13:57,120we debt we sort of delegate thereceive ability to receive email110001:13:57,120 --> 01:14:00,090on our behalf to some cloudserver that we've chosen to110101:14:00,090 --> 01:14:04,200trust for that function. Andthen our email clients just go110201:14:04,200 --> 01:14:08,580and periodically pull thoseemails down the other that the110301:14:08,580 --> 01:14:13,020other server has has gotten forus on our behalf so we and we110401:14:13,020 --> 01:14:16,470said that you know when it comesto descending I'll you know I'll110501:14:16,650 --> 01:14:19,620I'll retain control of thatmyself you know, through an SMTP110601:14:19,620 --> 01:14:23,910channel or route to that throughthere SMTP host I'll just do110701:14:23,910 --> 01:14:27,660that on a one off. I'm not goingto let this this email server110801:14:27,660 --> 01:14:31,830just send things randomly thatyou know as me I retain control110901:14:31,830 --> 01:14:35,190of that but on the receivingside, I will let them receive on111001:14:35,190 --> 01:14:35,970behalf of me.111101:14:36,630 --> 01:14:38,850Yes, because I think that's agreat analogy.111201:14:39,480 --> 01:14:43,230I like them so that's somethingthat we could do we could be a111301:14:43,230 --> 01:14:49,950mini LSP I guess in that case.CK I want to stay away from111401:14:49,950 --> 01:14:53,400that. I don't really want to dothat quite honestly. Do what111501:14:53,520 --> 01:14:58,500anything I just want you to doit right. Can you just do111601:14:58,500 --> 01:15:00,600everything and fix it for usbecause I'm No, no,111701:15:01,230 --> 01:15:06,180no. But by the way, I think thisis also about this specifically111801:15:06,180 --> 01:15:11,670what we're trying to do embrace.And I'm trying to onboard. And111901:15:11,730 --> 01:15:14,610luckily there are there arepeople that we're working on,112001:15:14,850 --> 01:15:18,660like the folks from spiral awe're working together right now112101:15:18,660 --> 01:15:23,250is to make the LSP functionalitya standard. So I don't think112201:15:23,250 --> 01:15:26,790it's a single vendor play abreeze in breeze, by the way,112301:15:26,790 --> 01:15:29,700you can connect to other nodesin the network, I don't want to112401:15:29,700 --> 01:15:34,770be the sole LSP I want to beilliquidity market, I want to be112501:15:34,800 --> 01:15:38,370to have competition around theliquidity. I think we need112601:15:38,370 --> 01:15:42,120multiple LSPs I think multipleLSPs. And an open network in112701:15:42,120 --> 01:15:47,010that regard, creates competitioncompetition, creates better112801:15:47,010 --> 01:15:53,130prices, and better and userexperience. So so so my goal is112901:15:53,130 --> 01:15:58,110to ever an open client where auser can connect to multiple113001:15:58,320 --> 01:16:03,390LSPs and to choose the LSPs.They want to interact with a I113101:16:03,390 --> 01:16:04,560think that's the end goal.113201:16:04,980 --> 01:16:07,920And is this something that youalso see being an important part113301:16:07,920 --> 01:16:12,660of a self custody LSP type dealat home on an Umbral?113401:16:13,890 --> 01:16:19,290I think that's that that's a keyelement. I think, without a way113501:16:19,290 --> 01:16:26,700to offload a cloud node to yourown device, we're still at a113601:16:26,700 --> 01:16:31,740censorship position. I didn'tcare what was the Ambrose guys113701:16:31,740 --> 01:16:34,740are doing with theirinfrastructure they're building113801:16:34,740 --> 01:16:40,710and other folks like star nine?Yeah. It's a key element. It's113901:16:40,710 --> 01:16:44,340part of the package, the abilityto offload something from a114001:16:44,340 --> 01:16:47,070cloud environment to your homeenvironment. Yeah.114101:16:47,070 --> 01:16:53,850And I want to say I had a very,very nice experience with the114201:16:53,850 --> 01:16:59,070Bitcoin machines company, they,they basically put a Raspberry114301:16:59,070 --> 01:17:04,140Pi and preload Umbral in a box,it pretty little box that you I114401:17:04,140 --> 01:17:07,380have always wanted this, I goback to the cobalt cube, which I114501:17:07,380 --> 01:17:10,560think we've talked about on theshow, I've always thought a home114601:17:10,560 --> 01:17:13,680server would be great. Andpeople have tried this and tried114701:17:13,680 --> 01:17:17,790this. And for some reason, theminute they threw in a Bitcoin,114801:17:18,270 --> 01:17:23,940and even better threw inlightning, all of a sudden this114901:17:23,940 --> 01:17:28,770device is now it's complete. Ithas everything you want. And you115001:17:28,770 --> 01:17:33,090know it has next cloud in there.I really think this is something115101:17:33,090 --> 01:17:36,480big. And I just I don't know ifyou're familiar with tail scale,115201:17:37,020 --> 01:17:42,210to be heard of this. No tailscale is it's it's built on, I115301:17:42,210 --> 01:17:46,320think, the Wireshark protocol.But basically, you view, you115401:17:46,320 --> 01:17:50,700install it on all your machines,and you have a VPN with your115501:17:50,700 --> 01:17:54,660machines. And even if you havean Umbral node at home running115601:17:54,660 --> 01:17:57,600on tour, you haven't popped anyports open, you don't have to do115701:17:57,600 --> 01:18:01,710any of that you just installedto scale. And then it works. And115801:18:01,710 --> 01:18:07,680in fact, it's so cool. I put upa piehole on this on this new115901:18:07,710 --> 01:18:12,510Umbral. And you can then throughtail scale route all your116001:18:12,510 --> 01:18:16,710traffic even on your phonethrough that piehole on your116101:18:16,710 --> 01:18:21,720home network. I mean, these arethese are really, really cool116201:18:21,720 --> 01:18:22,860things that are happening.116301:18:23,519 --> 01:18:27,209Yeah, I definitely agree.Although, although I don't think116401:18:27,209 --> 01:18:31,619that's the key to mass adoption.And where I'm focusing is on116501:18:31,859 --> 01:18:34,319mass. Yeah, I don't thinkeveryone will around.116601:18:34,500 --> 01:18:37,740And oh, no, oh, no, no, no,don't don't get me wrong. But I116701:18:37,740 --> 01:18:41,940think there's a significantsegment that sees the benefit of116801:18:41,940 --> 01:18:45,960having all of their shit now athome. There is a segment and I116901:18:45,960 --> 01:18:47,970think it's important becausethose117001:18:48,120 --> 01:18:51,840are the segment. Right, but themoronic? Yes. And number node.117101:18:52,620 --> 01:18:55,710Yeah, of course, of course. It'sa key. And it's a key element of117201:18:55,710 --> 01:18:59,670the of the of the solution. Soif we'll have nodes running in117301:18:59,670 --> 01:19:05,580the cloud, we will have no, it'sa must have to have a way to117401:19:05,610 --> 01:19:10,920take the information from thecloud nodes and run, run them in117501:19:10,920 --> 01:19:14,070your home environment. Thinkit's part yeah,117601:19:14,070 --> 01:19:16,950you can take it right away andput it in to just move it over.117701:19:16,950 --> 01:19:17,940It's cool. Yeah.117801:19:18,150 --> 01:19:20,880And that's part of the solution.Because if something gets117901:19:20,880 --> 01:19:24,630installed in the cloud, and ifthey I don't know which cloud118001:19:24,630 --> 01:19:29,640environment voltage or I don'tknow, the other nodes providers118101:19:29,640 --> 01:19:32,760are using if it's not goodenough, take your node, trust118201:19:32,760 --> 01:19:34,320yourself, run it in your118301:19:34,320 --> 01:19:39,240own environment, right. Man Thefuture's so bright.118401:19:41,160 --> 01:19:45,270Yeah, yeah. But it's again it'sa marathon not a sprint. So I118501:19:45,270 --> 01:19:48,900understand the I understandit's, it can be frustrated,118601:19:49,260 --> 01:19:53,820frustrating due to its I'm goingto interact with lightning and118701:19:53,820 --> 01:19:57,540they're still caveat andpayments are still failing, but118801:19:58,770 --> 01:20:01,290are only Go ahead. Sorry.118901:20:01,740 --> 01:20:07,170I'm just saying the only way toresolve that is to keep building119001:20:07,200 --> 01:20:11,820and keep improving the existingtooling and keep working on the119101:20:12,150 --> 01:20:16,230on fixing things, fixing theproblem, one problem after119201:20:16,230 --> 01:20:16,680another.119301:20:17,340 --> 01:20:20,250The biggest problem with theBitcoin community and the119401:20:20,250 --> 01:20:22,800lightning community is thecommunity itself. Unfortunately,119501:20:22,800 --> 01:20:26,340it's always like that.Something, something really119601:20:26,340 --> 01:20:30,570angered me this past week. Youknow, we have the Are you119701:20:30,570 --> 01:20:36,450familiar with pod? Ping Roy?Hmm. No, to pod ping is119801:20:36,450 --> 01:20:39,330basically a blockchain basedmessaging bus119901:20:39,330 --> 01:20:43,080for podcasts. Oh, you're talkingabout the hive? Yeah, yeah.120001:20:43,080 --> 01:20:48,870And I'll tell you, I'll tell youwhat made me mad is that we120101:20:48,870 --> 01:20:53,430there was a specific use casefor something that podcasting120201:20:53,430 --> 01:20:59,910needs. And after many, manypresentations, Dave and Dave,120301:20:59,940 --> 01:21:02,700and then Dave, you know,wouldn't once Dave was on board,120401:21:02,700 --> 01:21:05,580what do I need to talk about? Iwas like, okay, yeah, we were120501:21:05,580 --> 01:21:07,620convinced that this was theright way to do it. Now. It's120601:21:07,620 --> 01:21:14,520based on hive. And the hiveblockchain seems to be a lot120701:21:14,520 --> 01:21:19,260more utility than shit coin.Although, I guess technically120801:21:19,260 --> 01:21:24,450it's a shit coin. What? What wasso disappointing is, you know,120901:21:24,480 --> 01:21:28,230we're very excited about podping. It's visit future proofing121001:21:28,230 --> 01:21:32,400podcasting. To the degree thatwe know it's you know, that121101:21:32,400 --> 01:21:36,930blockchain is future proof. Isee no way to do what pod ping121201:21:36,930 --> 01:21:42,570does in certainly not on chainwith Bitcoin, or with the121301:21:42,570 --> 01:21:47,070Lightning Network. But thevitriol, the vitriol of people121401:21:47,070 --> 01:21:53,160coming in and trashing peoplewas just and and this was a lot121501:21:53,160 --> 01:21:56,460of different ranges of peoplewithin the community. That was121601:21:56,490 --> 01:21:59,700it and but really, like, youneed to stop right away and, and121701:21:59,700 --> 01:22:03,510then starting rumors, Adam curryis a shit coiner it's like, holy121801:22:03,510 --> 01:22:05,820crap. What is wrong?121901:22:05,820 --> 01:22:09,120The Bitcoin Maxis just showedthere this week.122001:22:09,630 --> 01:22:12,840We got that in our group as wellas the breeze telegram group as122101:22:12,840 --> 01:22:20,010well. But But I don't know, likeMaxis has have the role in the122201:22:20,010 --> 01:22:24,990in the in the ecosystem. So ifyou can defend your what you're122301:22:24,990 --> 01:22:28,170saying basically, that you usethe hive as it is a backend122401:22:28,170 --> 01:22:33,480implementation infrastructure,right. It's not it's not part of122501:22:33,480 --> 01:22:38,100the payments or testing,podcasting 2.0 compensation122601:22:38,460 --> 01:22:41,970system in any way. But to usfrom a technical standpoint, you122701:22:41,970 --> 01:22:46,470chose to use blockchain as a asan alternative to a database,122801:22:46,590 --> 01:22:47,970correct? Yeah, exactly.122901:22:48,000 --> 01:22:51,420So you need to defend thatdecision, you need to have the123001:22:51,450 --> 01:22:55,560ability to defend that decision.Because I think what, what what,123101:22:55,800 --> 01:23:04,350what I didn't found, I didn'tfind a blockchain to be could be123201:23:04,350 --> 01:23:08,400a better solution that thenexisting databases. So if you123301:23:08,400 --> 01:23:10,950can defend the solution, I thinkthe max is will be okay.123401:23:10,980 --> 01:23:13,590No, no, we can defend thesolution, the maxis need to read123501:23:13,590 --> 01:23:17,160what we're doing, what happensis the maxis come along and say,123601:23:17,250 --> 01:23:19,530Oh, hi, I've been podcasting.No, we all know123701:23:21,420 --> 01:23:24,600it. But that's not open onlywith the maxis, the superficial123801:23:24,600 --> 01:23:27,420discussion that is going ononline. Like it's everywhere.123901:23:27,450 --> 01:23:29,730Yeah, I'm just, I'm justbitching about it. Because I124001:23:29,730 --> 01:23:33,090just I felt really bad for Brianbecause Brian is taken. First of124101:23:33,090 --> 01:23:35,970all, he's taken more abuse forme than anybody. I have abused124201:23:36,180 --> 01:23:40,800this man for two years. And heis he's a he's a wonderful,124301:23:40,800 --> 01:23:43,830wonderful person. He really he'sdoing this for podcasting. He124401:23:43,830 --> 01:23:47,910has his own hive agenda, whichis fine. And every six months,124501:23:47,910 --> 01:23:50,640I'll try and understand hiveagain, like give up. It's just,124601:23:51,630 --> 01:23:54,960I have I'm getting closer eachtime. But but that's but that's124701:23:54,960 --> 01:23:58,710beside the point. It's just sodestructive. That's all but just124801:23:58,710 --> 01:23:59,940stop doing that people.124901:24:01,290 --> 01:24:06,270The Steve Jobs thing of it,people have to mature into the125001:24:06,270 --> 01:24:09,360Steve Jobs understanding of thisand what I'm specifically125101:24:09,390 --> 01:24:14,370talking about his famousstatement, that as Apple people,125201:24:14,370 --> 01:24:17,370we need to stop thinking thatMicrosoft has to lose in order125301:24:17,370 --> 01:24:20,460for us to win. Yeah, like, ifyou're confident if you're125401:24:20,460 --> 01:24:24,060confident in the thing that youbelieve, then you don't have to125501:24:24,060 --> 01:24:27,660have everything else lose inorder for your thing to succeed.125601:24:27,810 --> 01:24:32,940And but I'll be honest with you,that if someone wants to do an125701:24:32,940 --> 01:24:37,620implementation with stable coinsor whatever ship coin, I mean,125801:24:37,890 --> 01:24:41,160who am I to say no, I mean, thespec is open. You can do it with125901:24:41,160 --> 01:24:42,990Fiat if you want if you want to126001:24:43,200 --> 01:24:45,630let your market decide exactlyand but126101:24:45,630 --> 01:24:49,200the market but this is this isso it was easy because the eath126201:24:49,200 --> 01:24:53,670people there, they're here theEast people, they just yell at126301:24:53,670 --> 01:24:58,860you whenever you go on Rogen.Yeah, it was like you said the126401:24:58,860 --> 01:25:02,760cerium sucks. So that's thethat's my, that's exactly what126501:25:02,760 --> 01:25:05,130they sound like, actually,that's the eighth guy. That's126601:25:05,130 --> 01:25:09,330the guy. And, and for them, it'sreally easy because I always126701:25:09,330 --> 01:25:12,930say, Where's your code? Bitch?It's open, where's your code?126801:25:12,960 --> 01:25:17,010Where's your gas flowing throughthe system? That's easy. But126901:25:17,010 --> 01:25:21,690it's just when you get attackedfrom the behind. Just always a127001:25:21,690 --> 01:25:24,210little a surprising, that's allthere's my first real127101:25:24,210 --> 01:25:26,790experience. And I mean, I gotfriends to127201:25:26,790 --> 01:25:31,080feature it's a feature item.It's not a bug. It's a way for,127301:25:31,440 --> 01:25:34,620for the community to strikingdetail.127401:25:35,010 --> 01:25:38,070So you always know how to calmme down. I love that about you.127501:25:38,370 --> 01:25:44,250I you know how much shit I got,like doing breweries like, like,127601:25:44,310 --> 01:25:50,040it's all around it going on, itwill never stop. And I'm okay127701:25:50,040 --> 01:25:55,050with that. Like, it's part ofbeing a of being a part of the127801:25:55,050 --> 01:25:59,040Bitcoin ecosystem. And I embracethat, and I love it. Because it127901:25:59,100 --> 01:26:03,180allows me to reflect on ourdecision, it allows us to128001:26:03,180 --> 01:26:07,890improve. And if I know that, ifI'm confident in my decision, my128101:26:07,890 --> 01:26:12,030technical decision, then I canexplain it. I stand behind my128201:26:12,030 --> 01:26:12,630decision128301:26:12,690 --> 01:26:16,350right now, but you know what?I've been, I've been in the128401:26:16,350 --> 01:26:19,530public eye since I was 19. I'vetaken a lot of shit my whole128501:26:19,530 --> 01:26:22,860life for a lot of differentthings. I'm just defensive of128601:26:22,860 --> 01:26:25,980the people who are in theproject. That's all. I'm just128701:26:25,980 --> 01:26:30,090defensive. When when people justdo that. It's like, ah, but128801:26:30,090 --> 01:26:33,990yeah, yes, I agree with you, ingeneral is good, because it does128901:26:33,990 --> 01:26:38,100make you question and I think IDave and I both have questions.129001:26:38,100 --> 01:26:40,890Everyone's question this. Butyou know, from a technical129101:26:40,890 --> 01:26:44,370standpoint, it's it's perfect.It's perfect for what we needed.129201:26:44,760 --> 01:26:45,780And it's,129301:26:45,810 --> 01:26:49,170we need another plus guests inorder to dive into that, I can129401:26:49,170 --> 01:26:54,030tell you that personally, I so Iso many blockchain projects and129501:26:54,030 --> 01:26:59,310I still is not convinced in thein the in the, like, blockchain129601:26:59,310 --> 01:27:01,950technology. Blockchain is atechnology I don't see in it.129701:27:02,220 --> 01:27:08,610Like, but but data, it's a topicfor another podcast.129801:27:09,000 --> 01:27:11,790Well, we get you want to thanksome people. Adam,129901:27:11,969 --> 01:27:14,759I think we should definitelythank some people, Dave. Right.130001:27:16,349 --> 01:27:25,139And I wanted to say that asecond is my favorite right now.130101:27:26,429 --> 01:27:31,139I really love that one. Wereally appreciate everybody who130201:27:31,139 --> 01:27:34,739supports the entire projectpodcasting 2.0 its value for130301:27:34,739 --> 01:27:38,279value. And with a bookforthcoming from Adam curry and130401:27:38,279 --> 01:27:41,039Jhansi Dvorak, we're gonna we'regonna write our book, the value130501:27:41,039 --> 01:27:44,039for value book about thegenesis, how it works, how to do130601:27:44,039 --> 01:27:48,329it. This is this is reallyneeded right now in, in value130701:27:48,329 --> 01:27:51,209for value land, people need alittle bit of a roadmap, and130801:27:51,209 --> 01:27:53,549we're going to give that bookaway value for value. So that'll130901:27:53,579 --> 01:27:56,579that'll be the the meta ExcelYeah, the medics, we're not131001:27:56,579 --> 01:27:59,909going to make it running andprint it. When I put in PDFs,131101:28:00,449 --> 01:28:03,809you know, whatever, if everyformat and then131201:28:03,840 --> 01:28:05,340put it on the blockchain oneparagraph.131301:28:07,290 --> 01:28:13,920Okay, we'll throw it in hive, nodoubt. Which means that there's131401:28:13,920 --> 01:28:17,820no and it's, you know, just fulldisclosure, Roy and I talk131501:28:17,820 --> 01:28:21,420regularly, not as regularly aswe should. And we, we talk about131601:28:21,420 --> 01:28:25,260all kinds of stuff. And usuallyI'm like, you know, how, how can131701:28:25,290 --> 01:28:28,170I make everyone some money onthis thing? And Roy's answer is131801:28:28,170 --> 01:28:30,900always, man, you're gonna berich, just to close to me, which131901:28:30,900 --> 01:28:39,270sounds right. I'm paraphrasing,of course. But every single time132001:28:39,300 --> 01:28:43,890we talk about projects and thefunding, I always come back to132101:28:43,890 --> 01:28:47,310the same thing is like, ifpodcast index, if this project132201:28:47,310 --> 01:28:52,080had any outside funding otherthan honestly earned through API132301:28:52,080 --> 01:28:56,700and fees, it would suck it wouldsomewhere down the line, it132401:28:56,700 --> 01:28:59,940would suck. So we made a veryconscious decision. It's called132501:28:59,940 --> 01:29:03,480the vow of poverty, it's howmost podcasts are start to and132601:29:03,810 --> 01:29:07,350to really stick with it and movethrough it now we do have costs132701:29:07,350 --> 01:29:10,590we do have stuff that needs tobe paid for. And the more we do132801:29:10,590 --> 01:29:15,240the more cost and so people wereally appreciate you supporting132901:29:15,240 --> 01:29:18,900us in time talent and treasurethe three T's on the treasure133001:29:18,900 --> 01:29:22,800side, it's really quiteinteresting to me how the133101:29:22,830 --> 01:29:26,070Bitcoin community loves whatwe're doing love the love the133201:29:26,070 --> 01:29:30,930use case, I have yet to see anycompany of significant support133301:29:30,930 --> 01:29:34,500this project, it's okay, I'mjust saying. So I would like to133401:29:34,500 --> 01:29:39,420add today to our pitch. If youhave a podcast and you're using133501:29:39,420 --> 01:29:44,460value for value in podcasting2.0 We've put our value our our133601:29:44,460 --> 01:29:49,200note Id on in the in the shownotes. Feel free to add us to133701:29:49,200 --> 01:29:53,250your split as an extra to helpsupport Feel free. We would133801:29:53,250 --> 01:29:56,760really appreciate that and beextra cool because then we can133901:29:56,760 --> 01:29:58,980also read some of your boostergrams on our show.134001:30:03,240 --> 01:30:04,110Awesome says,134101:30:04,350 --> 01:30:07,440You know what? This just came tomind Dave, that may be a problem134201:30:07,440 --> 01:30:11,070I got to think about. We've beenI've seen booster Graham show up134301:30:11,190 --> 01:30:15,180that we were clearly put in asplit. And I'm like, wait a134401:30:15,180 --> 01:30:17,730minute, I don't do this show.Why is this showing up? Where134501:30:17,730 --> 01:30:20,070does what is this was reallyinteresting.134601:30:20,099 --> 01:30:21,989This is all sold about pivottables.134701:30:23,580 --> 01:30:30,900Exactly. So we as part of thevalue for value loop. We love to134801:30:30,930 --> 01:30:34,620thank everybody who supported usand read any messages, whether134901:30:34,620 --> 01:30:39,450it's fiyat fun writings, orbooster grants. Either way,135001:30:39,480 --> 01:30:40,830either way, we love both.135101:30:41,460 --> 01:30:43,320I like that Thea theat funscribbles?135201:30:43,379 --> 01:30:46,409So fun. Ooh, there you go. fiyatfun scribbles? There you go.135301:30:46,889 --> 01:30:52,229I'm redoing the fee. What's thefee Fun? Fun coupons first,135401:30:53,009 --> 01:30:56,009Marco Arment every month $500135501:30:56,759 --> 01:30:58,019Thank you very much Marco.135601:30:58,559 --> 01:31:04,859Wanted, you know, a critical,sustaining, sustaining donation135701:31:04,859 --> 01:31:08,249every single month that comeswith $500 and I can't thank him135801:31:08,249 --> 01:31:15,359enough. Thank you, Martha.Always the other big donation135901:31:15,359 --> 01:31:22,799that we got this this month fromBuzzsprout $500. Also Whoa, yep.136001:31:23,159 --> 01:31:26,009Yep. And they that is asubscript that's a monthly136101:31:26,009 --> 01:31:28,019subscriptions and monthlysubscription five136201:31:29,490 --> 01:31:31,320Thank you. Oh my goodness.136301:31:31,889 --> 01:31:33,809Don't those to sustain cast136401:31:33,810 --> 01:31:35,460sucks a cast sucks136501:31:39,420 --> 01:31:42,150that's the ad that says this.This quid pro quo is?136601:31:42,690 --> 01:31:45,510That's right. You send us everysingle month you send us that136701:31:45,510 --> 01:31:48,750that $500 I will tell everyonehow bad a cast sucks.136801:31:49,770 --> 01:31:53,820Well, that just means a cast onthe pony. But we136901:31:53,820 --> 01:31:56,190don't accept money from a castonly if they boost the grant.137001:31:56,670 --> 01:32:01,320Okay, fair and balanced. This isfair and balanced. Thanks guys.137101:32:01,350 --> 01:32:03,870Yeah, thank you to bus for Iappreciate that those two names137201:32:03,870 --> 01:32:08,370and donations are so soimportant. Who thank137301:32:08,370 --> 01:32:10,620you that actually feels reallygood to hear that137401:32:10,740 --> 01:32:14,970he does this kind of like everyMonday Well this is tax time for137501:32:14,970 --> 01:32:18,600us Eric just finished our taxesyou know as the as the LLC how137601:32:18,600 --> 01:32:19,140does this work?137701:32:19,139 --> 01:32:21,809We didn't put any money in ourpocket but we were allowed to137801:32:21,809 --> 01:32:22,829pay taxes over137901:32:24,030 --> 01:32:28,860I know it's like last year I gota k one that told me that I did138001:32:28,860 --> 01:32:32,040I got like 1000 bucks orsomething like that. I'm like i138101:32:32,070 --> 01:32:34,230Where's this that mystical$1,000138201:32:34,470 --> 01:32:37,380supposedly guy didn't see iteither. Like where did it go?138301:32:37,500 --> 01:32:42,270And then I got to put it on mytax return. Okay. Yeah, anyway,138401:32:42,300 --> 01:32:44,700it's the money is top of mindright now with having to pay138501:32:44,700 --> 01:32:51,960these taxes. We get $10 donationfrom Stephanie fuccillo podcast138601:32:51,960 --> 01:32:55,890consultant and all aroundpodcast genius. Thank you138701:32:55,890 --> 01:32:56,370Stephanie.138801:32:56,400 --> 01:32:58,590What is definitely where sheworked for do you know138901:32:59,490 --> 01:33:02,550she's independent? I'm prettysure she's Miss she's written139001:33:02,550 --> 01:33:04,770some articles about pocketpockets and 2.0 been a big139101:33:04,770 --> 01:33:05,280supporter of139201:33:05,280 --> 01:33:07,110our great Thank you Stephanie.139301:33:07,860 --> 01:33:12,330And we got some booster gramsclearly yes, our PayPal right139401:33:12,330 --> 01:33:12,630there.139501:33:12,660 --> 01:33:15,390Yeah, there you go. Yeah.139601:33:16,950 --> 01:33:23,670We got 1000 SATs from V. He gaveus those SD pod friend and he139701:33:23,670 --> 01:33:25,020just says PIP you139801:33:27,540 --> 01:33:31,470Okay, so I just have to say Ithought it would be cute to139901:33:31,470 --> 01:33:36,420leave the my Umbro on in thestudio. It's it's literally five140001:33:36,420 --> 01:33:39,990arm lengths away and for somereason, even though I would140101:33:40,140 --> 01:33:44,730during no agenda even though forso I would from time to time. I140201:33:44,730 --> 01:33:48,810might hear it. It became a thingand people were trying to140301:33:48,840 --> 01:33:52,590trigger this booster Graham pewpew sound while my mic was open140401:33:52,770 --> 01:33:56,220while I wasn't playing a clipand what happened is really Dave140501:33:56,220 --> 01:34:00,990This is such a good sound. I'vegotten 30 emails people saying140601:34:01,050 --> 01:34:04,230do this I'm read with your soundthat I hear I hear like some140701:34:04,260 --> 01:34:08,520some some like pew sound is Isthere something I know how much140801:34:08,520 --> 01:34:10,650you appreciate sound What areyou did something was wrong with140901:34:10,650 --> 01:34:14,130that? It's that shit cutsthrough somehow.141001:34:14,250 --> 01:34:17,730Yeah, it's a notice the itbreaks through the noise gates.141101:34:17,730 --> 01:34:20,940That note is the noise. Breaker.Yeah,141201:34:20,970 --> 01:34:25,170but you know, I liked it whenSpencer had it running during141301:34:25,170 --> 01:34:27,300your live show. I love hearingthat.141401:34:28,410 --> 01:34:30,210He must have had it piped in.Oh, yeah. No,141501:34:30,210 --> 01:34:32,850it was right to know it wasdirect. Yeah. And that that141601:34:32,850 --> 01:34:35,130makes a lot more sense. I justcan't imagine that during no141701:34:35,130 --> 01:34:36,720agenda. DeVore I could go nuts.141801:34:37,470 --> 01:34:40,290Because Because on Na Na whatyou get is like,141901:34:40,680 --> 01:34:43,080although if I told him I saidhey, that's money every single142001:34:43,110 --> 01:34:45,570time it comes in. He might hemight Oh yeah, leave that on.142101:34:45,960 --> 01:34:55,140A burqa. Chad Ferro is perkywith 3333 sets. Yeah, he says do142201:34:55,140 --> 01:34:57,720it for Mo Yeah. Boom.142301:34:58,170 --> 01:35:04,410Chad has been, you know, most Hewas fired from his job, man over142401:35:04,410 --> 01:35:08,430the mandates and but peoplestepped up man people boosting142501:35:08,610 --> 01:35:13,260like 100,000 SATs 200,000 SATsit's been beautiful to watch.142601:35:13,590 --> 01:35:14,520It's just freaking142701:35:14,670 --> 01:35:17,940like free Kevin moment. Youknow? Do it for MO Yes142801:35:18,719 --> 01:35:21,929indeed indeed to it from SirSpencer142901:35:21,930 --> 01:35:28,890send us 330 3333 sets. Nice.Thank you. Yes. Through fountain143001:35:28,890 --> 01:35:31,920he says hope this reaches you intime. Looking forward to your143101:35:31,920 --> 01:35:34,500visit with us Sunday on bothwith us. Oh, that you read that143201:35:34,500 --> 01:35:35,010last that's143301:35:35,040 --> 01:35:38,730yeah, that was. Yeah, we gotsome new ones too. I don't know.143401:35:38,790 --> 01:35:39,870I don't know if you saw themall.143501:35:41,550 --> 01:35:46,380Okay, so, five 5000 SATs throughto Satoshi stream. Through143601:35:46,380 --> 01:35:49,950fountain he says you mentionedDave, you mentioned Dave boosts143701:35:49,980 --> 01:35:53,250too much are you oh youmentioned Dave boost too much.143801:35:53,460 --> 01:35:56,640Are you okay with me tellingwhat rank you are in terms of143901:35:56,640 --> 01:35:59,190highest boosters institutionstream podcast? Yeah, I144001:35:59,190 --> 01:36:03,480told him and I told him yes. Andhe didn't get back to me. Yeah,144101:36:03,480 --> 01:36:06,150and seen that he makes it soundlike I've been boosting a lot.144201:36:07,230 --> 01:36:09,030Oh, well. I don't know you.144301:36:09,839 --> 01:36:12,659I I am the badass booster.144401:36:15,240 --> 01:36:20,190Sir dug through fountain. Giveus 4400 SATs and he just says144501:36:20,460 --> 01:36:28,770boost yo, boost. Sir Doug isthat it was Sir Doug. Oh, I144601:36:28,770 --> 01:36:31,710don't know. I'm just wonderingif it's Doug from the chat room.144701:36:32,460 --> 01:36:33,270Oh, no, no, no.144801:36:33,810 --> 01:36:35,940It's not Doug from the chat roomnow.144901:36:37,380 --> 01:36:42,300This Bessie UK he gave us 117SATs through fountain and he145001:36:42,300 --> 01:36:45,270says we need a Deutsche boost gopodcasting.145101:36:45,750 --> 01:36:50,460Give you wait we talked wetalked about that. We read this145201:36:50,460 --> 01:36:53,400one Yeah, we read this onebecause I immediately got a145301:36:53,400 --> 01:36:56,640tweet from from Germans. No, itwas it was from him actually he145401:36:56,640 --> 01:36:59,820tweeted me and said ah we snuckinto podcasting 2.0 board145501:36:59,820 --> 01:37:03,720meeting we need a German boost.Okay, so that's an old winner145601:37:03,720 --> 01:37:06,540this by the way. I know that Iknow what we call it we call it145701:37:06,570 --> 01:37:07,380Deus boost.145801:37:08,910 --> 01:37:10,920I don't remember this one fromlast week. Yeah,145901:37:10,950 --> 01:37:11,940I'm weird that way.146001:37:12,540 --> 01:37:17,490Oh, you know what? Okay, here wego. Satoshi stream came in later146101:37:17,790 --> 01:37:21,960and he says Dave is the largestbooster ever to Satoshis dot146201:37:21,960 --> 01:37:27,840stream podcast number twoboosted see number two boosted146301:37:27,840 --> 01:37:31,230half I don't know what thatmeans. That means146401:37:31,230 --> 01:37:33,630whoever the number two isboosted half the amount you146501:37:33,630 --> 01:37:34,200boost.146601:37:34,980 --> 01:37:38,580Oh, so I basically own you own Iown boosters you are146701:37:38,580 --> 01:37:40,350paying me me a lot146801:37:40,380 --> 01:37:45,060this. This is just circularmoney.146901:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,840Well, that's the point. That'sexactly what you want. Roi is147001:37:48,840 --> 01:37:51,900not it isn't circular money,isn't it? Aren't we proving the147101:37:51,900 --> 01:37:52,860whole thing here?147201:37:54,330 --> 01:37:56,310And not specifically in thatexample.147301:37:59,160 --> 01:38:01,740You know, you're using stopusing science and math.147401:38:01,920 --> 01:38:04,260Really? Party pooper?147501:38:04,710 --> 01:38:08,910Yeah, it says oh, look at this.He says Adam is number eight.147601:38:09,630 --> 01:38:13,320I'm a loser. What is this?You're not You're almost outside147701:38:13,320 --> 01:38:14,370the top 10 Holy147801:38:14,370 --> 01:38:18,420crap that I'm not used to thisstream mine. I know. Well, I147901:38:18,420 --> 01:38:22,200have to up my boosting game. Nowis that is that number of boosts148001:38:22,230 --> 01:38:26,010or overall value of boost?148101:38:26,460 --> 01:38:29,490It doesn't say here so clearlysays you stream needs to boost148201:38:29,490 --> 01:38:32,910us again. Yep. And let us knowand explain more. Yes.148301:38:35,010 --> 01:38:38,790Roy, this really works is that'sthe great part. I think148401:38:38,790 --> 01:38:45,150gamification is so so hard. I'mso lovely. People literally say148501:38:45,480 --> 01:38:48,990Oh, this is one of the mostenjoyable ways to part with my148601:38:48,990 --> 01:38:50,400money. Yeah,148701:38:50,400 --> 01:38:53,970I'm boosting for breeze becauseyou're brilliant. Wow.148801:38:56,670 --> 01:38:57,840Here's a breeze right here.148901:38:57,870 --> 01:39:02,640We got Brees is always numberone or number two every day.149001:39:02,970 --> 01:39:06,540Yeah, yeah, you're up there.Yeah, you're not number eight.149101:39:06,540 --> 01:39:07,590Let's put it that way.149201:39:09,180 --> 01:39:13,560It's 100 sets through the breezeapp. He says more morning tests.149301:39:13,590 --> 01:39:17,940Yeah, breeze users are cheappasses. Man. That's that's 100149401:39:17,940 --> 01:39:18,990SATs thanks149501:39:20,730 --> 01:39:26,490117 SATs from from messy UK. Oh,there you go again, is we need a149601:39:26,490 --> 01:39:30,900Deutsche boost. This is adifferent boost. Boost. Boost.149701:39:31,140 --> 01:39:35,310Bessie is is got Alzheimer's. Imean he's really struggling.149801:39:35,640 --> 01:39:37,380He's boosting things he'salready boost way149901:39:37,380 --> 01:39:40,740I got the Alzheimer's boostboost. And by the way, not150001:39:40,740 --> 01:39:42,840anything bad against Alzheimer'sbecause it sucks.150101:39:43,260 --> 01:39:48,390No, no, no. Sorry. Let me seenow. Let's say that he's seen150201:39:48,390 --> 01:39:54,840Oh, yeah. Mary Oscar. Oscar,also known as Oscar Mary, sent150301:39:54,840 --> 01:39:59,970us 22,222 SATs big row of ducksthrough fountain of course nice.150401:40:00,000 --> 01:40:07,230He says he says until March 1,all new fountain users who150501:40:07,230 --> 01:40:10,380listened to a podcast will get1000 Free SAS trap value for150601:40:10,380 --> 01:40:12,960value go podcasting. Now, that's150701:40:14,310 --> 01:40:18,060that's some onboarding rightthere. Roy's ROI.150801:40:19,710 --> 01:40:21,270Yeah, I'll never do that.150901:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,080No, he won't. I know he won't. Iknow he won't151001:40:26,520 --> 01:40:28,410never give up preset.151101:40:28,440 --> 01:40:32,190Hey, but Roy, let me ask you aquestion. If I gave you 1000151201:40:32,190 --> 01:40:34,650SATs to give to your new users,would you do it?151301:40:36,420 --> 01:40:39,180I can't keep the fee.151401:40:40,260 --> 01:40:46,230Free. So I'll give them 800.Now, but as a serious question,151501:40:46,290 --> 01:40:50,520if we had someone who wanted tohelp, okay, we have a use case,151601:40:50,910 --> 01:40:54,210we have someone who wants tohelp people onboard onto151701:40:54,210 --> 01:40:59,760Bitcoin, and immediately givethem a sign up bonus of free151801:40:59,760 --> 01:41:04,620Satoshi sent to any wallet theywant. I'm sorry. Sorry.151901:41:04,680 --> 01:41:09,660I don't like I don't I saw like,dozens of initiatives like that.152001:41:10,110 --> 01:41:10,890Never walked152101:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,050Tell me tell me why. What arethe pitfalls?152201:41:13,470 --> 01:41:17,190Because you don't get a qualityusers? What do you get if you152301:41:17,190 --> 01:41:21,810get people that wants to use thefree set? And they don't use it152401:41:21,810 --> 01:41:25,560for like, for good? A152501:41:25,590 --> 01:41:26,550year or evil?152601:41:28,680 --> 01:41:32,730What happens? Typically, if youdon't, if users don't understand152701:41:32,730 --> 01:41:37,890the meaning of Bitcoin, thevalue of Bitcoin, the SATs won't152801:41:37,890 --> 01:41:38,700go anywhere.152901:41:40,350 --> 01:41:44,070If it's but if it's loaded inthe context of a podcast app,153001:41:44,760 --> 01:41:51,480and you make them, you make themspend it. But you need a way to153101:41:51,480 --> 01:41:53,250make them spend the SATs,153201:41:53,280 --> 01:41:54,120right, yeah.153301:41:54,150 --> 01:41:56,850What about this? What aboutthis, you give you give them153401:41:56,850 --> 01:42:00,3901000 SATs? And if they haven'tspin it within? Within five153501:42:00,390 --> 01:42:02,670days? It all goes to me.153601:42:05,280 --> 01:42:09,780Perfect. Working on that daygone? Probably. Does we like153701:42:09,780 --> 01:42:14,040that. No, but But generallyspeaking, I don't really like153801:42:14,280 --> 01:42:15,060paying users.153901:42:15,930 --> 01:42:20,940It is the way of the world ofcourse, that's how the current154001:42:20,940 --> 01:42:24,990world works with users. Iappreciate we want to change. I154101:42:24,990 --> 01:42:27,390know I That's why I appreciatewhat you're saying about154201:42:27,390 --> 01:42:31,080understanding the value. That's,that's exactly. That's a very154301:42:31,080 --> 01:42:31,770good point.154401:42:32,370 --> 01:42:35,790It's value for value, right? Andthere's value in this that 1000154501:42:35,790 --> 01:42:37,020sets that you're giving up.154601:42:37,830 --> 01:42:39,900It's a problem that you're thispractical ROI.154701:42:40,110 --> 01:42:42,600I know we should never invitehim back.154801:42:42,960 --> 01:42:48,540Yes, yes. This was way too muchcapitalist was three 333 says154901:42:48,540 --> 01:42:52,440from coal McCormick, do fountainhe says I started my own podcast155001:42:52,440 --> 01:42:55,140called America plus, I talkabout innovation happening in155101:42:55,140 --> 01:42:58,140the world and in myself. Stilllearning how to create chapters155201:42:58,140 --> 01:43:00,060but I can sure except SAS155301:43:02,040 --> 01:43:05,040whoops. Nice, man. Yeah, thankyou. Cool.155401:43:05,730 --> 01:43:08,550We got some we got to move. Wegot so many booster grams here.155501:43:09,660 --> 01:43:16,710Hunt 100 sets through throughbreeze is bleep. No name or155601:43:16,710 --> 01:43:20,490anything out from Franco Celerioyet155701:43:21,960 --> 01:43:23,610again. Again. I'm just155801:43:24,990 --> 01:43:30,030Franco Celerio through castematic sin is 5150 sets. Oh, Van155901:43:30,030 --> 01:43:30,390Halen.156001:43:30,420 --> 01:43:34,290That's right. 51 cities. Youhave to go to these insane156101:43:34,290 --> 01:43:40,440asylum, isn't it? Yeah. 5150 isthe code for the cop. That's why156201:43:40,440 --> 01:43:44,490Van Halen use it is the cop codefor him. You know, I'll give you156301:43:44,490 --> 01:43:46,980the exact Go ahead. Read theread the note and I'll tell you156401:43:46,980 --> 01:43:50,370Yes, yes. A Franco said is 5153test medic. He says is it a156501:43:50,370 --> 01:43:53,430problem? If every time I have todebug some value for value issue156601:43:53,430 --> 01:43:56,130in Casta medic, I send you somemoney. That is not a problem,156701:43:56,130 --> 01:44:00,210Franco. That is absolutely not aproblem. We actually encourage156801:44:00,210 --> 01:44:00,330it.156901:44:00,540 --> 01:44:03,7505150 is the number of thesection of the Welfare and157001:44:03,750 --> 01:44:07,320Institutions Code which allows aperson with a mental challenge157101:44:07,320 --> 01:44:11,370to be involuntarily detained fora 72 hour psychiatric157201:44:11,370 --> 01:44:18,390evaluation. Oh, okay. Also knownas Baker acting I think you157301:44:18,390 --> 01:44:19,350could do it to your kid.157401:44:21,690 --> 01:44:24,210I think that might come inuseful Sunday.157501:44:24,210 --> 01:44:27,630Yes, yes. Hey, kid. 51 That'swhy they put it in there is that157601:44:27,630 --> 01:44:29,130Van Halen had had humor.157701:44:30,870 --> 01:44:33,900Mere Mortals podcast, our buddyKaren downs and as a super rush157801:44:33,900 --> 01:44:41,820boost 21 112. And he says, JayJones sounds like the bad boy157901:44:41,820 --> 01:44:45,240developer your rebelliousdaughter brings? plays fast and158001:44:45,240 --> 01:44:48,210loose with the law but fasterand looser with code. Oh yeah.158101:44:48,210 --> 01:44:54,420Your API and then break yourheart. Hide your kids. Hide your158201:44:54,420 --> 01:44:57,330kids hide your pod ping and hideyou SAS because he's data158301:44:57,330 --> 01:45:00,000scraping everybody out of here.Here's my here's my question.158401:45:00,000 --> 01:45:03,120attribution to bring this about.Thank you Karen.158501:45:04,170 --> 01:45:06,900That guy, he's a poet. He's apoet158601:45:07,110 --> 01:45:12,180in like, freakin 12 languages.He has a polymath. Yeah. Thank158701:45:12,180 --> 01:45:18,150you Carrie. Martin from podfriend day. Notify 1932158801:45:18,510 --> 01:45:22,710Boom shaka laka he noticed thatthat Martin comes back in the158901:45:22,710 --> 01:45:26,160comments just accelerated alittle bit somehow something159001:45:26,160 --> 01:45:26,670happened159101:45:27,360 --> 01:45:31,080it because he's he said becausehe's such a bright like he's a159201:45:31,140 --> 01:45:32,100ray of sunshine159301:45:32,130 --> 01:45:36,150he is yes. A ray of Danish sensesunshine. He's our he's our our159401:45:36,150 --> 01:45:43,620tasty Danish my whole goal inlife by the way is to make you159501:45:43,620 --> 01:45:46,950laugh, Dave. That's all I'm herefor. And I'll be here all week.159601:45:46,980 --> 01:45:47,190This159701:45:48,690 --> 01:45:52,350pod friend didn't taste theDanish developer Martin since159801:45:53,400 --> 01:45:56,88025,932. says and he says helloworld. I guess he's doing some159901:45:56,880 --> 01:46:00,090tests. We are beneficiaries ofthis. Yeah. How you doing?160001:46:01,260 --> 01:46:02,430Hello. Hello World.160101:46:02,850 --> 01:46:07,950Cast Breeland 6600 says throughfountain and he says haha, pew160201:46:07,950 --> 01:46:13,830pew in the NA show. Let me see.The PPU in the NA show. Let me160301:46:13,830 --> 01:46:18,330think of the sound on let's sayonly fans. Were a bunch of sluts160401:46:18,330 --> 01:46:20,790and it works for the show boost.160501:46:21,960 --> 01:46:25,590Which reminds me just whathappened to your only fans. Roy160601:46:25,620 --> 01:46:29,340thought you were going to do anonly fans. Satoshi version.160701:46:29,970 --> 01:46:34,020Yeah, we got distracted a bit.But we'll we'll we'll do that.160801:46:34,500 --> 01:46:36,840Yeah. It'll just it'll distract.160901:46:37,200 --> 01:46:40,320Yes, that's yeah. No, that'sthat's the service that161001:46:40,320 --> 01:46:41,370everyone's waiting for it.161101:46:42,240 --> 01:46:44,880Okay, yeah, it's coming. It'scoming. I know161201:46:48,930 --> 01:46:52,620what you're you don't think youdon't think that's true? I know.161301:46:52,620 --> 01:46:55,200I know, Roy. He means that Imean, oh, you can do anything161401:46:55,200 --> 01:46:57,660you want with it, but only fansis just a version.161501:46:58,710 --> 01:47:04,290And now guys. Okay. He saidhe's, um, Alex, as he said, it's161601:47:04,290 --> 01:47:04,740coming.161701:47:05,700 --> 01:47:10,050No, believe me, believe me. Inmy mind, I said get some tissue161801:47:10,050 --> 01:47:11,760but I don't do that anymore.161901:47:12,509 --> 01:47:15,779I can't help you call me out. Ihad to admit it. Sorry. I'm a 12162001:47:15,779 --> 01:47:16,289year old.162101:47:16,710 --> 01:47:18,450perpetually. Yes.162201:47:19,710 --> 01:47:25,890Okay, in for Vieques since 1234sets, and he says thank you for162301:47:25,890 --> 01:47:28,530your coding. Well, you'rewelcome. They said that they're162401:47:28,530 --> 01:47:36,270curio caster. C 2222 SATs from Bmozzie. From Brian. Through162501:47:36,270 --> 01:47:39,960fountain he says spew thosesets. We'd like to162601:47:45,240 --> 01:47:51,420pre See primitive one.Interesting. Gave us 12345 sets162701:47:51,450 --> 01:47:54,690Nice. Yeah. And he says my hoodfriend and I want to do a162801:47:54,690 --> 01:47:58,950podcast about cover songs. Ithink that you should Yes.162901:48:01,410 --> 01:48:03,900We actually talked about this onthe Macedon. You gotta be163001:48:03,900 --> 01:48:07,800careful. Yeah, cover Ville isthe only podcast that has really163101:48:07,800 --> 01:48:10,410done that successfully. We gotto do a lot of clearances and163201:48:10,410 --> 01:48:13,200especially if you're receivingSATs, just be careful on that.163301:48:13,530 --> 01:48:16,800Oh, that's because of the Yeah,this music rice you know, you163401:48:16,800 --> 01:48:19,950can just get into some shitthere. So yeah, consult a163501:48:19,950 --> 01:48:21,510lawyer. Or sorry.163601:48:22,560 --> 01:48:26,610John's BRTs in his 49,000 SATs.Whoa, mountain. Wait.163701:48:27,120 --> 01:48:28,500Is he a baller for today?163801:48:29,160 --> 01:48:33,000A dd dd let me look into thelist. Yeah.163901:48:34,200 --> 01:48:39,720Shot kala Blaze. Boost Nice.164001:48:40,019 --> 01:48:46,889Cleese's stacking SATs andharvesting hive Thank you jobs164101:48:46,889 --> 01:48:55,529BRT. 70 cc. What's the 7777? Isthat? A name for that? Soccer164201:48:55,529 --> 01:48:59,039sevens, soccer sevens throughfrom Harry Duran from the164301:48:59,039 --> 01:49:03,329podcast junkies and he gave usthis this he found and he says,164401:49:03,539 --> 01:49:06,059I never thought an episode aboutbuilding the future of164501:49:06,059 --> 01:49:10,199podcasting could be so damnsexy. Harry Duran podcast164601:49:10,199 --> 01:49:14,879junkies see164701:49:15,840 --> 01:49:17,250how many more do we have Dave?164801:49:17,490 --> 01:49:23,760We got a few more 1000 says frommollusc. And he says, wondering164901:49:23,760 --> 01:49:26,010about how Adam is doing and hisjourney with Linux and165001:49:26,010 --> 01:49:27,480podcasting, go podcasting.165101:49:27,540 --> 01:49:33,360Go podcasting. Well, podcast.Linux is still kind of in and165201:49:33,360 --> 01:49:36,570please don't email me. Linux isstill kind of incompatible with165301:49:36,570 --> 01:49:39,090the way I work with audio. Let'sjust put it that way.165401:49:41,850 --> 01:49:44,400He sent us the exact samemessage again so I'm thinking165501:49:44,400 --> 01:49:47,640what happens he's using breezeand he machinegun boosted. Let's165601:49:47,640 --> 01:49:52,590see. I'd like I'm liking thisfeature. Now.165701:49:52,710 --> 01:49:59,430This is a high quality feature,Roy. thank you Steven B. Oh,165801:50:00,000 --> 01:50:03,570I'll have to send you what thislooks like. It's Steven B that165901:50:03,570 --> 01:50:08,010the B is the Bitcoin symbol HmmNice.166001:50:08,070 --> 01:50:10,890Oh, I see it here Oh is 1111166101:50:11,940 --> 01:50:18,120is 34 1703 curio caster and hesays I'm gonna live 3417 boost166201:50:18,120 --> 01:50:21,570in honor of bowl after bowlsfirst live Adam show yet and I166301:50:21,570 --> 01:50:25,380have to say the Steven V andgame, curio caster he's Oh, he's166401:50:25,380 --> 01:50:27,990on the bleeding edge of everynew feature that comes out of166501:50:27,990 --> 01:50:31,110podcasting tip one oh, he reallywas helpful for that166601:50:31,140 --> 01:50:34,200even today in sovereign feedsRoy, you've got to check out166701:50:34,200 --> 01:50:38,910sovereign feeds calm, you canliterally take any podcast and166801:50:38,910 --> 01:50:43,200you can output a fully 2.0compatible feed all the features166901:50:43,200 --> 01:50:46,500are in there. And he made itbecause he added something for167001:50:46,500 --> 01:50:51,090the cross app comments. I thinkyou have to have the platform167101:50:51,120 --> 01:50:55,920and the method. So it's activitypub Macedon. And I opened up167201:50:56,130 --> 01:50:59,130sovereign feeds and literallysaid right there, Adam, this is167301:50:59,130 --> 01:51:01,680where you need to put this. Imean, he's coding shit in167401:51:01,680 --> 01:51:05,340personally for me. That was sohot.167501:51:05,370 --> 01:51:09,120That idea that oh, it's goodidea.167601:51:09,330 --> 01:51:10,710That's a slam or not. But I'lltake167701:51:10,740 --> 01:51:14,010No, no, no, not a slam at all.Oh, no, no, no. When you know167801:51:14,010 --> 01:51:16,860that your user has specific whenyou're, you know, that your167901:51:16,860 --> 01:51:21,000users have specific, or when youcan anticipate as a developer168001:51:21,000 --> 01:51:24,930that that a specific section ofyour users are going to have168101:51:25,350 --> 01:51:29,220questions or is always the rightthing to guide them in the app168201:51:29,220 --> 01:51:32,070itself, rather than to wait fora support request. Well, that's168301:51:32,070 --> 01:51:34,920what I'm saying. No, it wasn't ayou. That's that's exactly the168401:51:34,920 --> 01:51:39,840way as far as I'm concerned now.That I think the best apps to do168501:51:39,840 --> 01:51:42,240that. It's like, Hey, I alreadyknow that this is going to be a168601:51:42,240 --> 01:51:44,190problem for us tell them in theapp.168701:51:44,640 --> 01:51:46,740But it actually said, Adam, thatwas the fun thing.168801:51:47,220 --> 01:51:47,940Oh,168901:51:48,480 --> 01:51:50,970it didn't just say here's whereyou add them put this in here.169001:51:51,000 --> 01:51:51,840Okay. A169101:51:52,380 --> 01:51:53,130different story.169201:51:53,790 --> 01:51:55,950Let's see. All right. So we'resovereign.169301:51:55,950 --> 01:51:57,120feeds.com169401:51:58,830 --> 01:52:04,110Floridian slips, give us 5000SATs. And he says, Thanks for169501:52:04,110 --> 01:52:06,540all your work on 2.0. Can yourecommend a channel for169601:52:06,540 --> 01:52:09,270questions to be directed andhaving issues with the index and169701:52:09,270 --> 01:52:12,150boosting figured out what trywith a boost to get some info?169801:52:12,450 --> 01:52:15,570Well, yeah, the channel ispodcast index dot social. So169901:52:15,570 --> 01:52:16,020interesting170001:52:16,020 --> 01:52:18,510that I'm missing some of thesebooster grams.170101:52:19,650 --> 01:52:24,630Alright, well, you know, theythese are selectable so Oh,170201:52:24,630 --> 01:52:27,480right. Okay. All right. Yeah.Yeah, they may they may not have170301:52:27,480 --> 01:52:29,100chosen to include, or170401:52:29,130 --> 01:52:31,140that's what I'm always worriedabout. Since this is just a170501:52:31,140 --> 01:52:34,770monitor 1% split. I'm alwaysworried that that's just not170601:52:34,770 --> 01:52:35,370getting through.170701:52:36,630 --> 01:52:39,090I think it depends on the appthat it comes through. Because I170801:52:39,090 --> 01:52:42,630can cast a magic if you boost.It comes up and you can choose170901:52:42,900 --> 01:52:45,570who you want to boost and one ofthe sections selections is171001:52:45,570 --> 01:52:49,500everyone. Yeah, but mostly youhave that think, like bright171101:52:49,500 --> 01:52:51,960with Breeze if you boost it justgoes to everybody always.171201:52:51,990 --> 01:52:55,860I actually don't like thatfeature anymore. What? I'd like171301:52:55,860 --> 01:52:58,830everyone in it, I'd likeeveryone. It's so kind of rude.171401:52:58,830 --> 01:53:03,210It's like I'm excluding someoneit was intended to do to give171501:53:03,210 --> 01:53:06,330someone an extra boost, which Idon't think it's used for.171601:53:07,650 --> 01:53:10,080Oh, you mean like it shouldalways go to everybody? Like171701:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,850that's my personal feeling?Yeah.171801:53:12,060 --> 01:53:16,320Yeah. Can't be a good coder isgonna code.171901:53:16,770 --> 01:53:19,650That's right. That's right.That's just why I use breeze.172001:53:20,340 --> 01:53:24,240Because I can, you can't choosewho you send it to. And you can172101:53:24,240 --> 01:53:26,400just be a low life and send 30SATs.172201:53:29,370 --> 01:53:36,270We're enabling monetizingtrolls. Anonymous through us and172301:53:36,270 --> 01:53:39,300it's 10,000 SAS through castematic and he just says free172401:53:39,300 --> 01:53:41,850media. Yay. free media.172501:53:42,270 --> 01:53:44,820Now, did you not? Oh, no, that'sa different one. I'm sorry. Yes.172601:53:44,820 --> 01:53:47,100Got it. 10,000 Nice. Thank you.172701:53:47,670 --> 01:53:51,510Bill Prague. Since 3000. Setsthe pod friend and he says don't172801:53:51,510 --> 01:54:00,930be a maxi go podcasting. Podcastsee dubs 3333. Through the boost172901:54:00,930 --> 01:54:07,230CLI shell script, nice. A he'ssee. He sent a link.173001:54:07,650 --> 01:54:10,830And that definitely didn't go tome. That's a direct key send I173101:54:10,830 --> 01:54:11,250think.173201:54:12,090 --> 01:54:16,260Okay, so he sent he sent a linkand this is a link to his to the173301:54:16,260 --> 01:54:19,740boost bots GitHub repo, wherethey're working on all the173401:54:19,740 --> 01:54:24,840different connectors to cool tosend boost to IRC and Mastodon173501:54:24,870 --> 01:54:28,590Oh, nice. Yeah, he said we'reworking on matrix next.173601:54:28,650 --> 01:54:31,320Well, you hear that Roy matrix?Are you still you guys still173701:54:31,320 --> 01:54:32,040working on that?173801:54:32,970 --> 01:54:33,900On the back burner?173901:54:35,190 --> 01:54:39,540Everything I say to Roy is Areyou alright, Roy? Do you okay?174001:54:40,560 --> 01:54:43,920I'm good. That good? Okay, alot. A lot of boosts like174101:54:46,950 --> 01:54:51,510what do you want to leave? No.Okay. This is the best part of174201:54:51,510 --> 01:54:52,050the show.174301:54:53,370 --> 01:54:58,860Martin Martin from pod friend.We have a series of C 100 100.174401:54:59,340 --> 01:55:01,980Oh, he's definitely Testing.Yeah, he's doing some tests174501:55:01,980 --> 01:55:05,490100 100 100 I'm just giving themcredit. Um, quick credit for174601:55:05,490 --> 01:55:08,640these. It's like 1000 SATs ofboost CQ,174701:55:08,640 --> 01:55:09,720Mr. 100 they174801:55:11,309 --> 01:55:15,299have an extra 100 from row fromRoy. And that was all from174901:55:15,299 --> 01:55:17,669Martin doing testing and then wegot floating slips again with175001:55:17,669 --> 01:55:20,969500 SATs and he says testingyour splits. See this is exactly175101:55:20,969 --> 01:55:23,669the way you fund open sourceprojects. Yes through testing175201:55:23,669 --> 01:55:24,779things testing things with175301:55:24,780 --> 01:55:27,690money is a beautiful I would addthere's another t shirt175401:55:27,810 --> 01:55:30,720podcasting. 2.0 we test shitwith money.175501:55:30,990 --> 01:55:39,570Yeah, I like it. No, test net isfor wet. Everything. Everything175601:55:39,570 --> 01:55:45,960is everywhere. Gary Arntz in his3141 sets. And he says that's to175701:55:45,960 --> 01:55:48,390fountain and he says justreturning the love today who is175801:55:48,390 --> 01:55:52,020still remains the only personwho has boosted my podcast. Gary175901:55:52,020 --> 01:55:55,680aren't everything everywheredaily. Oh, how you doing this176001:55:55,680 --> 01:55:59,310year? We know Gary. And thenumber one booster assists176101:55:59,310 --> 01:55:59,670right? I176201:55:59,670 --> 01:56:02,790mean, you should you should havea little badge next to your name176301:56:02,790 --> 01:56:04,320on the master doll. I'm gonna dothat.176401:56:04,980 --> 01:56:06,360Number one booster. That'sright.176501:56:06,960 --> 01:56:08,130Wow, that was gay.176601:56:08,250 --> 01:56:13,260Oh, thanks. Comic Strip bloggergave us he's the delimiter is176701:56:13,560 --> 01:56:16,140end of end of donation segmentalmost176801:56:16,590 --> 01:56:20,91010,033 cents through pod friendand he says howdy David AC. I176901:56:20,910 --> 01:56:23,370hope you are not invaded byRussia yet like my Slavic177001:56:23,370 --> 01:56:27,480brothers in Ukraine are. You'rewelcome to listen to our podcast177101:56:27,480 --> 01:56:32,550about AI called AI cooking readby former famous actor and four177201:56:32,550 --> 01:56:35,880pub owner Gregory WilliamForsythe foreman. Just type in177301:56:35,880 --> 01:56:39,180your web browser or any podcastapp AI cooking. Yo177401:56:39,210 --> 01:56:44,640Yo just boost comics bloggergets it man. He gets it. Yeah,177501:56:44,670 --> 01:56:47,940he's sending Sass to everysingle podcast with his message177601:56:47,970 --> 01:56:49,590and he's getting it out there. Ilove it.177701:56:50,310 --> 01:56:52,890We get really good or bad. It'slike one o'clock in the morning.177801:56:53,010 --> 01:56:53,820And we're almost done.177901:56:54,930 --> 01:56:57,150And I actually want to go out178001:56:58,200 --> 01:57:03,120to your party or Roy, you got inparty? Yeah. I don't know. I'm178101:57:03,120 --> 01:57:06,930just asking. I don't know. Imean, I somehow whenever I178201:57:06,930 --> 01:57:09,390envision you I just don'tenvision you as a party guy.178301:57:10,470 --> 01:57:12,060Depends how you define a party.178401:57:12,240 --> 01:57:15,900Well, I'm coming to Israel. Sohere's just fun. That's right.178501:57:15,900 --> 01:57:19,710You're gonna show me your party.I can't wait. I want my favorite178601:57:19,710 --> 01:57:25,320Roy story is when we're in Miamiand Roy can't get a can't get an178701:57:25,350 --> 01:57:26,700Uber and he thought178801:57:26,700 --> 01:57:29,610his card his card failed hiscredit card. thing. Yeah.178901:57:29,970 --> 01:57:35,970Card failed. So then Roy gets onto Brees boss, a boss like an179001:57:36,000 --> 01:57:41,910Uber card, a gift card throughbit. Refill a bit refill and179101:57:41,940 --> 01:57:45,420Ubers and Ubers himself out ofthere in like five minutes179201:57:45,450 --> 01:57:47,760that we were slick. It was veryslick. Yeah.179301:57:50,190 --> 01:57:53,220Okay, so we got some monthlydonors here. Just to wrap it up.179401:57:53,310 --> 01:57:58,680We got pod news at $50 KeithGibson, in $50. Dwayne Goldie at179501:57:58,680 --> 01:58:04,560$8 Paul Erskine at $11.14 MikoGoggin at $5 Charles current at179601:58:04,560 --> 01:58:10,080$5 Christopher Raymer at $10Sean McCune at $20 cone179701:58:10,080 --> 01:58:15,420glotzbach at $5 James Sullivanat $10.02 coats at $6.66 and179801:58:15,420 --> 01:58:18,390Jordan dunville at $10 Thatwraps up our group179901:58:18,450 --> 01:58:21,630in the last boost that K boostergrams that came in during the180001:58:21,630 --> 01:58:27,270show. Cost peelings. I'm sorrysir Spencer sent us to boost180101:58:27,300 --> 01:58:33,18033,369 SATs each with aduplicate message so I don't180201:58:33,180 --> 01:58:35,700know if he meant to do that butit was no I did because they180301:58:35,700 --> 01:58:39,060were an hour apart. Thank youfor helping us make podcasting180401:58:39,060 --> 01:58:42,030history shout out to rareencounter with Abel Kirby and180501:58:42,030 --> 01:58:45,960cold acid who also implementedLive This Week go podcasting180601:58:46,080 --> 01:58:49,920love from Sir Spencer DameDeLorean and bowl of after bow.180701:58:52,920 --> 01:58:56,490We love that. Nice. I love that.Thank you sir Spencer, thank you180801:58:56,490 --> 01:58:58,980so much for doing that. That wasjust that was just beautiful.180901:58:58,980 --> 01:59:03,660Roy Have you got to get on? Yougot to get heli pad man. Okay,181001:59:03,690 --> 01:59:04,350on your own bro.181101:59:04,890 --> 01:59:09,480Yeah, but I didn't have to startdoing a podcast, right? I want181201:59:09,480 --> 01:59:10,590to say who's coming?181301:59:10,620 --> 01:59:11,910I'll be your first guest.181401:59:11,940 --> 01:59:13,680I like to dust boots. That'sboots.181501:59:15,030 --> 01:59:19,080But you know, Roy, I have to sayand I want I want to thank you181601:59:19,080 --> 01:59:24,030so much. Really? Thank you forfor your trust in the project.181701:59:24,030 --> 01:59:27,420Thank you for your dedication.Your team as well even though we181801:59:27,420 --> 01:59:28,380know you do everything181901:59:29,190 --> 01:59:35,220come on. I don't I don't doanything that that my team is182001:59:35,220 --> 01:59:38,430doing all the job. I'm justgoing on podcast talking about182101:59:38,430 --> 01:59:43,710it. But it really shouldn't beme thanking you guys like first182201:59:43,710 --> 01:59:49,590you're my two favorite people inthe whole world. Amazing. Dave182301:59:49,590 --> 01:59:51,960is amazing. I don't know ifeveryone knows how amazing182401:59:51,960 --> 01:59:52,530Davies I182501:59:52,530 --> 01:59:58,200do. I do. I'm raising my hand. Iknow how amazing Dave is. He's182601:59:58,260 --> 02:00:00,330he says yes, I mean Eazy182702:00:00,540 --> 02:00:04,140E making me blush man. Andyou're an inspiration, Adam182802:00:04,170 --> 02:00:05,100really? Like?182902:00:05,910 --> 02:00:11,280Well, thank you. You still you,you put your business on the183002:00:11,280 --> 02:00:14,130line for this. And that's andthat's appreciated and you are a183102:00:14,130 --> 02:00:17,550confidant of mine because you'rethe one that always takes the183202:00:17,550 --> 02:00:21,780time to explain this shit whenI'm like what is going on? And183302:00:22,860 --> 02:00:26,130Android likes to gossip like me,I think I think we share that he183402:00:26,130 --> 02:00:30,180pretends that we don't do it. Wegossip about everybody. We have183502:00:30,180 --> 02:00:33,210our little tea session. Girlchat. Yeah. Oh, yeah,183602:00:33,240 --> 02:00:37,440definitely. Part of the process.But what is but what is183702:00:37,440 --> 02:00:42,270happening here is way beyondanything I could have imagined.183802:00:42,270 --> 02:00:45,030You know, we took a concept ofvalue for value concept, and we183902:00:45,030 --> 02:00:50,280translated it. And this that'shappening now, that took me 10184002:00:50,280 --> 02:00:54,510years to get that going withPayPal, you know, even to some184102:00:54,510 --> 02:00:57,720degree like that the immediacy,everything that's happening, it184202:00:57,720 --> 02:01:07,020is so exhilarating. So exciting.And I think this, to me, this is184302:01:07,020 --> 02:01:10,650the onboarding that we need. Atthis moment. It is because184402:01:10,890 --> 02:01:14,640people understand value whenthey do it. They understand184502:01:14,640 --> 02:01:20,640feeling good about the value. Itfeels incredibly good. And and I184602:01:20,640 --> 02:01:24,780did with my wife, we started apodcast career in the keeper, re184702:01:24,780 --> 02:01:28,680all only podcasting 2.0 I'dnever submitted it anywhere else184802:01:28,710 --> 02:01:33,360only into the index, self, selfhosted everything. You know,184902:01:33,780 --> 02:01:38,820we're running the node at home.And within 30 minutes of putting185002:01:38,820 --> 02:01:43,650our first episode out, the joyof just little bits of SAT185102:01:43,650 --> 02:01:48,960streaming in was was like, like20 years ago, we started185202:01:48,960 --> 02:01:55,260podcasting. It is so cool.Amazing, really is and185302:01:55,380 --> 02:01:57,870appreciate everything you'redoing. And we look forward to185402:01:58,500 --> 02:02:04,830hopefully using your LSPofferings in the future. Yeah,185502:02:05,160 --> 02:02:09,570yeah, we will let the Ourpurpose is to spread this joy,185602:02:09,630 --> 02:02:15,090right? It doesn't need to beonly in like, the breeze app or185702:02:15,090 --> 02:02:18,450the fountain app needs to beeverywhere in every podcasting185802:02:18,450 --> 02:02:22,800app. And part of our job is tofind the right ways to do that.185902:02:24,240 --> 02:02:28,860Also, yeah, in a safe way, and Ilove that I love that you're so186002:02:28,860 --> 02:02:32,490committed to the cause, youknow, to noncustodial and making186102:02:32,490 --> 02:02:36,420all that stuff work in in a in atrue in a true way.186202:02:36,510 --> 02:02:41,040Yeah, baby, you don't have apeer to peer baby. Like, that's186302:02:41,040 --> 02:02:41,670what we need.186402:02:42,179 --> 02:02:44,849And I always appreciate talkingto you. And it was this was, you186502:02:44,849 --> 02:02:49,169know, no exception being on theshow. Because you you do help us186602:02:49,169 --> 02:02:54,089think you really do you put usin in a good frame of mind.186702:02:54,809 --> 02:02:56,969You're pretty you're prettyunique that way, my brother,186802:02:56,999 --> 02:03:01,349you're pretty unique that way.Yes. You can put that on a t186902:03:01,349 --> 02:03:02,999shirt. My name is Roy. I'munique.187002:03:03,570 --> 02:03:05,460i People think yes.187102:03:05,550 --> 02:03:09,150Do you do? You do you do?Alright, Dave, you got to get187202:03:09,150 --> 02:03:10,590back to the to the day job. I187302:03:10,590 --> 02:03:11,850guess. That's it.187402:03:11,880 --> 02:03:14,370They mad at you again, becauseyou're always late on Friday.187502:03:14,850 --> 02:03:17,370No, no, I think they thinkyou've taken a lover.187602:03:19,050 --> 02:03:22,620Now I'm working like workinglike 50 to 60 hours a week right187702:03:22,620 --> 02:03:22,800now.187802:03:23,400 --> 02:03:26,490I'm broke. I'm say did what cuztax season is coming up again.187902:03:26,760 --> 02:03:30,480Yeah, yeah, it's just crazy.Alright, that's it for the board188002:03:30,480 --> 02:03:34,560meeting. Roy, thank you so much.You know, we'll we'll have you188102:03:34,560 --> 02:03:37,320on again soon. whenever,whenever you're ready. Feel free188202:03:37,320 --> 02:03:43,260to abuse us. We love it. I thankyou guys. Thank you very much,188302:03:43,260 --> 02:03:45,720Roy. We'll be back next weekwith another board meeting of188402:03:45,720 --> 02:03:48,510podcasting. 2.0 Take careeverybody. We'll see you then.188502:04:05,250 --> 02:04:09,810You have been listening topodcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts188602:04:09,840 --> 02:04:12,360index.org For more information