Episode 73: Spinning Gold out of Yarn

100:00:00,510 --> 00:00:05,850podcasting 2.0 for February11 2020, to Episode 73 Spinning200:00:05,850 --> 00:00:12,630gold at a yarn with excuses toRumpelstiltskin. Hello,300:00:12,630 --> 00:00:16,020everybody time once again forthe board meeting of podcasting400:00:16,020 --> 00:00:19,2302.0 Everything happening atpodcast index.org with the500:00:19,230 --> 00:00:22,860podcast namespace. And ofcourse, where all the action600:00:22,860 --> 00:00:26,730always takes place podcast indexdot social. I'm Adam curry here700:00:26,730 --> 00:00:29,460in the heart of the Texas HillCountry and in Alabama, the only800:00:29,460 --> 00:00:32,790guy who can refresh my metadata,my friend on the other end,900:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,250ladies and gentlemen, Mr. DaveJones.1000:00:36,420 --> 00:00:43,620You're such a pro. For like, isit true me? So you have you have1100:00:43,620 --> 00:00:45,570the road? I'm gonna let you talkabout that you have you've1200:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,230you've got the Rona. But is ittrue what you told what you have1300:00:49,230 --> 00:00:53,850told me that? You've nevermissed a broadcast in your1400:00:53,850 --> 00:00:55,650entire career because ofillness?1500:00:55,709 --> 00:01:00,749No, 40 years. I've never misseda broadcast ever, for any1600:01:00,749 --> 00:01:01,229reason.1700:01:02,040 --> 00:01:07,800So there has to be at least oneor two stories of you have the1800:01:07,800 --> 00:01:11,730camera, the cameras stoprolling, go and barf your guts.1900:01:12,240 --> 00:01:14,640In the bathroom. They come rightback when the camera starts2000:01:14,640 --> 00:01:14,820again.2100:01:14,850 --> 00:01:18,630Not quite that story, becauseanother interesting fact I have2200:01:18,630 --> 00:01:23,880not vomited since I was 12 yearsold. Not kidding.2300:01:24,420 --> 00:01:27,600Is this is this like? Is thislike Prince Andrew doesn't2400:01:27,600 --> 00:01:29,130sweat. Is this the same?2500:01:29,189 --> 00:01:33,899I don't know. It's I reallydon't know. I just I don't do2600:01:33,899 --> 00:01:34,289that.2700:01:35,069 --> 00:01:38,849Okay, yeah. Yeah, taking controlof your that was that thing2800:01:38,849 --> 00:01:41,489where you can like lower yourbreathing your heart rate. But2900:01:41,489 --> 00:01:44,429will you've just told your body?You're not allowed to3000:01:44,700 --> 00:01:48,510correct it? The same way I toldmy body. We're not getting the3100:01:48,510 --> 00:01:53,940Cuf didn't listen to that or didnot listen to it. And I think3200:01:54,150 --> 00:01:58,620really, I picked a fine time toget it. Because things are just3300:01:58,620 --> 00:02:02,190blowing up around you withmarketing opportunities for3400:02:02,190 --> 00:02:08,790podcasting. 2.0. But, and I knowyou had it, maybe everyone I3500:02:08,790 --> 00:02:11,670know has in fact, I was feelinga bit left out at this point.3600:02:12,750 --> 00:02:16,380At least twice, maybe threetimes. But really at least3700:02:16,380 --> 00:02:17,220twice. Yes.3800:02:17,280 --> 00:02:20,190Yes. So that would have beendifferent. Doesn't matter who3900:02:20,190 --> 00:02:23,340the hell knows. I don't know. Imean, I took a test. I got two4000:02:23,340 --> 00:02:25,830things. You know, I could havethe cool if I could be pregnant.4100:02:25,830 --> 00:02:28,830I don't know. I mean, I don'thave any reason to, to give4200:02:28,830 --> 00:02:35,550babies have any reason to trustanything at this point. But two4300:02:35,550 --> 00:02:39,120things of note, and I still amdefinitely I know I'm ill4400:02:39,120 --> 00:02:43,770because I feel well, here's howI feel. I have taste and smell4500:02:43,770 --> 00:02:49,200but taste is haywire. It's likemixed up. Or it's it's like it's4600:02:49,200 --> 00:02:53,820removed elements from from mytaste sensation. So, I had a sip4700:02:53,820 --> 00:02:59,010of wine yesterday. It was likebiting into tin foil. Yeah, and4800:02:59,010 --> 00:03:04,950coffee. It's like really,really, really better. As Yeah,4900:03:04,980 --> 00:03:10,350and then the worst part is, weedis like a crunchy old stick. So5000:03:10,350 --> 00:03:10,740that's5100:03:10,740 --> 00:03:13,410out. That's your worst part.That would be you5200:03:13,560 --> 00:03:18,480know, the worst part is there isdefinitely some brain fog,5300:03:18,480 --> 00:03:23,550cognition something going on.Because I you know, I use my5400:03:23,550 --> 00:03:27,120brain a lot. And I feel it thecertain things this is like,5500:03:27,150 --> 00:03:31,680Oops, just kind of mushy. Andthat's really annoying and a5600:03:31,680 --> 00:03:32,460little weird.5700:03:34,080 --> 00:03:37,530That the brain thing. Yeah,there's there's definitely some5800:03:37,530 --> 00:03:39,990brain fog aspect to this whereyou're just kind of you feel5900:03:40,290 --> 00:03:44,760like you're floating. Like youjust don't mind, your brain6000:03:44,760 --> 00:03:48,870can't really land on one thingfor more than, like, it's sort6100:03:48,870 --> 00:03:51,600of it's, it's tickling it. It'snot actually6200:03:52,350 --> 00:03:54,960a little bit of that it's morejust like, you know, it's like I6300:03:54,960 --> 00:03:57,660need to come up with a title,you know, and I just can't focus6400:03:57,660 --> 00:04:00,270on that one thing, everythingelse I can do. But one thing my6500:04:00,270 --> 00:04:01,710brain goes now I'm done withyou.6600:04:03,600 --> 00:04:05,610But not for you. And we do6700:04:05,610 --> 00:04:08,250have two guests joining us ofcourse not really guests but6800:04:08,250 --> 00:04:10,410board members who will be withus in a moment here in the6900:04:11,010 --> 00:04:15,540podcasting 2.0 board meeting.But I just because it's also7000:04:15,540 --> 00:04:19,890about them. I want to say howimportant it is what we're doing7100:04:19,890 --> 00:04:23,790here. And maybe not for thereasons that that people might7200:04:23,790 --> 00:04:28,080think when I say that so I didanother live thing this morning7300:04:28,380 --> 00:04:31,110with Brian Kilmeade Fox News7400:04:31,110 --> 00:04:34,380is another live show. You'vedone three podcasts in two days7500:04:34,380 --> 00:04:38,070with with the Rona. Yeah, yourmachine7600:04:39,390 --> 00:04:42,810Well, it's an important time andthere's stuff to discuss. But7700:04:42,840 --> 00:04:47,250you know so in now this is alive radio so it's a coast to7800:04:47,250 --> 00:04:52,410coast is a pretty big audience.And of course it's it's it's7900:04:52,410 --> 00:04:56,190great to do live radio, but notreally because well we have 168000:04:56,190 --> 00:05:00,720minutes here hard out at 52 andjust like Oh, yeah, I forgot8100:05:00,720 --> 00:05:07,140your interruptive monetizationmodel is very annoying. And, you8200:05:07,140 --> 00:05:09,720know, so of course, what doeseveryone want to talk about?8300:05:11,070 --> 00:05:15,750Canceled culture and Rogen?Right. That's that's what that's8400:05:15,750 --> 00:05:18,060what. And that's why they'rehaving me on. So well, why are8500:05:18,060 --> 00:05:23,040you having me on? Well, you havea solution for this. And yeah,8600:05:23,070 --> 00:05:26,340that's that's the marketingmoment that is happening right8700:05:26,340 --> 00:05:33,390now. Right now, if you look atanything about Rogan, somewhere,8800:05:33,390 --> 00:05:38,730you'll see podcasting 2.0, as analternative that people are8900:05:38,730 --> 00:05:39,510talking about.9000:05:40,650 --> 00:05:46,650Diets which which in relation toRogan, I don't like some people9100:05:46,650 --> 00:05:51,210are going off on this thing.Say, Oh, well, hey, Joe, come to9200:05:51,210 --> 00:05:55,380podcasting. That's not that'snot going to happen. This. The9300:05:55,440 --> 00:05:57,420significance of this lieselsewhere.9400:05:57,450 --> 00:05:59,520Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. No, it hasnothing to do. Yeah, no, no,9500:05:59,520 --> 00:06:02,520yeah, yeah. But we're on theradar. That's what's now I've9600:06:02,700 --> 00:06:05,910look, I was there when we did1.0. It takes a while for things9700:06:05,910 --> 00:06:08,550to build. And there are momentswhen you get boost. And this is9800:06:08,550 --> 00:06:15,240one of these moments is not thedefinitive moment. But what what9900:06:15,240 --> 00:06:19,890is interesting is that peopleare starting to realize that10000:06:19,890 --> 00:06:24,690Kancil culture is not reallypolitical or ideological. Yeah,10100:06:24,720 --> 00:06:29,610it's a part of it. It's beingused right now to establish the10200:06:29,610 --> 00:06:34,470rules and regulations. So it'seasy for people to agree with10300:06:34,470 --> 00:06:38,700the people who are being banned,banded around first. But it's10400:06:38,700 --> 00:06:43,020really a class struggle. That'swhat to me, the truckers is10500:06:43,020 --> 00:06:47,400about. This is the workingmiddle class, who are saying,10600:06:47,400 --> 00:06:51,540No, we're done with it. And theruling class, which really used10700:06:51,540 --> 00:06:54,000to be the working middle class,but they got elected to10800:06:54,000 --> 00:06:59,130something. They they kind ofdespise the working middle10900:06:59,130 --> 00:07:05,400class. So you know, that's whyyou see politicians having11000:07:05,400 --> 00:07:07,770dinners without masks, and thepeople serving them are all11100:07:07,770 --> 00:07:11,460messed up, you know, it's a,it's such an obvious thing for11200:07:11,460 --> 00:07:15,600me to see. And, and what isreally underlying all of this.11300:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,270And that's why to me, we'redoing really important work. And11400:07:18,270 --> 00:07:21,930it's and that's just a fewpieces of what we're doing is11500:07:21,930 --> 00:07:25,620the ruling class does not wantthe working class and middle11600:07:25,620 --> 00:07:29,850class to have their owncommunications channels. And11700:07:29,850 --> 00:07:33,570that is evident in everythingthat they're saying and writing.11800:07:34,620 --> 00:07:38,160It's that, well, we just can'thave Joe Rogan say that. We just11900:07:38,160 --> 00:07:43,260can't have Alex Jones, they justcan't have that. Why? Because12000:07:43,260 --> 00:07:47,940they want everyone to listen totheir established messaging12100:07:47,940 --> 00:07:52,200system. And that's why when thenew messaging system, which is12200:07:52,200 --> 00:07:56,340podcasting starts to say, oh,there's an alternative to12300:07:56,340 --> 00:07:59,820pharmaceutical products that arebeing sold, that's when you12400:07:59,820 --> 00:08:04,110know, the money comes out. Andthat's when people go full bore.12500:08:04,380 --> 00:08:07,860But it's Joe Rogan now oranybody, anybody that you want,12600:08:07,860 --> 00:08:11,670and anywhere and on anyplatform, any any opinion, it's,12700:08:11,760 --> 00:08:15,360it's that person now toestablish the rules and12800:08:15,360 --> 00:08:19,560regulations, and then those willbe used against everybody. And12900:08:20,100 --> 00:08:24,930this brings me to podcasting.So, you know, when when someone13000:08:24,930 --> 00:08:28,080says, What is podcasting? 2.0?Really, it's apps and services13100:08:28,080 --> 00:08:32,070that use the upgraded podcaststandards. That's it. It's not a13200:08:32,070 --> 00:08:35,100it's not like a huge,complicated question to answer.13300:08:35,730 --> 00:08:42,570And the first benefit we get isif you use a new podcast app, a13400:08:42,570 --> 00:08:46,530modern app, your podcast thatyou listen to won't just13500:08:46,530 --> 00:08:52,980disappear overnight. Now, that'snot explicitly true for for13600:08:52,980 --> 00:08:55,800every app, you know, every appcan make its own decision, but13700:08:56,040 --> 00:09:00,540most of the apps that newpodcast apps comm get their,13800:09:01,470 --> 00:09:05,310their debt data from the index.And that's a pretty safe place.13900:09:05,670 --> 00:09:09,210And so that's where I'm sendingeverybody. So I'm sending people14000:09:09,210 --> 00:09:12,960to new podcast apps calm so whenpeople hear podcasting, 2.014100:09:13,080 --> 00:09:15,330they're seeing apps andservices, they don't really know14200:09:15,330 --> 00:09:19,110much else. But for that veryreason. I think we need to14300:09:19,110 --> 00:09:24,000recognize that podcasting itselfwith the conversation is is14400:09:24,000 --> 00:09:27,780driving it only in to look at itas one thing. It's not really an14500:09:27,780 --> 00:09:33,030industry. It's more like sports,not a sport, sport, sport. You14600:09:33,030 --> 00:09:36,240can do sport by yourself. Youcan do it with your buddies, you14700:09:36,240 --> 00:09:39,750can do it professionally. Youcan do it. commercially. This14800:09:39,780 --> 00:09:44,970it's sport, and it's just asimportant to sport is essential14900:09:44,970 --> 00:09:46,260to the human spirit.15000:09:48,780 --> 00:09:53,460Tone interesting. Good. No, goahead. I want to disrupt your15100:09:53,460 --> 00:09:53,880flow.15200:09:56,280 --> 00:10:04,470Tony Khan from WGBH Who is anobvious admission to the podcast15300:10:04,470 --> 00:10:09,000Hall of Fame. He was one of thefirst to believe in the vision15400:10:09,000 --> 00:10:14,400of podcasting. He worked at WGBHWGBH, NPR, public radio in15500:10:14,400 --> 00:10:19,020Boston. He was, as far as Iknow, the first to put public15600:10:19,020 --> 00:10:24,450radio on podcasting champion didvery, very hard. He was, and I15700:10:24,480 --> 00:10:27,300hope he's still alive. I haven'theard from Tony in a long time.15800:10:28,500 --> 00:10:32,760He really blew me away. In thoseearly days, he talked about15900:10:32,760 --> 00:10:37,200podcasting, bringing somethingto broadcasting which had been16000:10:37,200 --> 00:10:40,260lost and could no longer berecovered. And he said he called16100:10:40,260 --> 00:10:45,870it civility. And this is thetruth about podcasting, any16200:10:45,870 --> 00:10:51,420podcaster? Who was podcasting inthe past 24 months, I guarantee16300:10:51,420 --> 00:10:56,190you, no matter what your podcastis, you've received at least one16400:10:56,220 --> 00:11:00,330email from someone saying, Hey,man, thanks for keeping your16500:11:00,330 --> 00:11:05,700podcast going. It kept me saneduring these crazy times. And16600:11:05,730 --> 00:11:10,350that can be a podcast with fivepeople listening, or 5 million16700:11:10,350 --> 00:11:16,740people listening. So to look atpodcasting in an industry is16800:11:16,740 --> 00:11:20,040always going to be limited bythe amount of money and whatever16900:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,640the amount of award shows we cando. There's an endless supply of17000:11:23,640 --> 00:11:31,770civility in the world. Um,that's all I had to say. So it's17100:11:31,770 --> 00:11:37,140important what we're doing.Well, there's my my crew fog has17200:11:37,560 --> 00:11:39,930screwed up my big my big finish.Yeah.17300:11:40,320 --> 00:11:43,650He just fell off the cliff. Idid. It was a The thing I've17400:11:43,650 --> 00:11:46,530been thinking about this week,as there's this, there's been17500:11:46,530 --> 00:11:52,200this sort of backgroundradiation of commenting going on17600:11:52,200 --> 00:11:57,000on podcast index dot socialabout, in this comes, this comes17700:11:57,000 --> 00:12:00,510up, it's a cycle that comes upevery, every four months or so,17800:12:00,870 --> 00:12:05,940of, should the index be divorcedfrom the, as far as marketing17900:12:05,940 --> 00:12:10,050goes, should the index bedivorced from the namespace be18000:12:10,050 --> 00:12:13,740divorced from value for value,but like, should all this is? Is18100:12:13,740 --> 00:12:22,080there a podcasting? 2.0? Becausebecause the Free Speech stuff,18200:12:23,220 --> 00:12:31,050and that that comes up on thissort of timed basis? The what18300:12:31,050 --> 00:12:33,960I've been thinking about isthere's there's an easier and18400:12:33,960 --> 00:12:37,200there's sort of an easy answerto that, which is, oh, well, the18500:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,210you know, the index doesn't haveanything to do with the18600:12:39,210 --> 00:12:44,010namespace and blah, blah, blah.But as a whole podcasting two18700:12:44,010 --> 00:12:48,420point, I don't think thatthere's that they're separable18800:12:48,420 --> 00:12:52,950and then maintainable asindependent things. Because what18900:12:52,950 --> 00:12:57,600podcasting 2.0 is, is just arepresentation is a solidified19000:12:57,600 --> 00:13:02,850representation of whatpodcasting is. Podcasting is, by19100:13:02,850 --> 00:13:08,940itself, decentralized andcensorship resistant. And it's,19200:13:09,330 --> 00:13:13,950it is it is a representation ofuncancelled ability, if that's a19300:13:13,950 --> 00:13:20,130word. Because just like SamSethi said, you can, if you if19400:13:20,130 --> 00:13:23,370your host, D platforms, you soto speak, you can go get it, go19500:13:23,370 --> 00:13:27,960to another one. And you your,your data is portable, from host19600:13:27,960 --> 00:13:31,740to host. And if, if all of themcancel you, you can host it19700:13:31,740 --> 00:13:36,180yourself. That is something thatis inherent in podcasting.19800:13:36,390 --> 00:13:39,900That's not something thatpodcasting that podcast index,19900:13:40,170 --> 00:13:44,100brought to podcasting,podcasting was already that20000:13:44,100 --> 00:13:51,720thing, what we did was, wascreate the API, and the20100:13:51,720 --> 00:13:54,810database, the downloadabledatabase, to where all those20200:13:54,810 --> 00:13:58,110things can, where all of thosedistributed feeds can be20300:13:58,110 --> 00:14:02,820downloaded in easily in a singleplace. That's that's all we did,20400:14:02,820 --> 00:14:09,000we we put feet or, or mate tookthe cont the the concepts, and20500:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,490then the building blocks of whatpodcasts and podcasting already20600:14:11,490 --> 00:14:19,440was, and turned it into an easyto use thing. And so there20700:14:19,440 --> 00:14:23,130doesn't even have to be apodcast index in order to carry20800:14:23,130 --> 00:14:26,940out that mission. I could justtake and run those, run those20900:14:26,940 --> 00:14:31,710background services myself on myown machines privately, and then21000:14:31,710 --> 00:14:34,380just make it down, make thedatabase downloadable problem21100:14:34,380 --> 00:14:39,810solved. That the that is what itis. We decided to go one step21200:14:39,810 --> 00:14:43,890further and create the API tomake that easy for apps. Well,21300:14:43,890 --> 00:14:50,520then the API is the sandbox forthe new for the namespace. And21400:14:50,520 --> 00:14:54,210these things build upon eachother. So what really what we21500:14:54,210 --> 00:14:56,490ultimately did, and this is whyI don't think that they're21600:14:56,490 --> 00:15:03,390separable. We we just took Whatpodcasting already was, and21700:15:03,390 --> 00:15:07,170tried to preserve it, which wasthe, which is the first part of21800:15:07,170 --> 00:15:12,870our mission and extend it.Those, that's, that's all we did21900:15:12,870 --> 00:15:19,200you, if you try to separate theindex from the namespace, from22000:15:19,230 --> 00:15:21,900value for value, if you try toseparate those all into, into22100:15:21,900 --> 00:15:25,650into component parts, you justit just all falls apart, you22200:15:25,650 --> 00:15:29,610lose it. Because that's not nolonger an accurate22300:15:29,610 --> 00:15:33,300representation of whatpodcasting is, as an as a as a22400:15:33,300 --> 00:15:38,010medium and as an industry and asa technology. So I don't I don't22500:15:38,010 --> 00:15:44,220think the the idea that the FreeSpeech part of things is going22600:15:44,220 --> 00:15:47,940to turn people off so much thatthey're going to abandon22700:15:47,940 --> 00:15:53,910namespace tags, because theindex doesn't censor people. I22800:15:53,910 --> 00:15:57,690don't think that that is even anissue. I've heard so much talk22900:15:57,690 --> 00:16:01,710about podcasting. 2.0 even evenon a clip yesterday that John23000:16:01,710 --> 00:16:06,780Spurlock shared some some guystalking about podcasting 2.0 It23100:16:06,780 --> 00:16:11,310never it just never came up.It's not an issue because they23200:16:11,310 --> 00:16:14,070already know that that's whatpodcasting is.23300:16:14,910 --> 00:16:19,380Excellent point. There's athere's a an article another23400:16:19,380 --> 00:16:24,480article in The Atlantic thatcame out today, given the23500:16:24,480 --> 00:16:27,990Atlantic is definitely apublication of the ruling class.23600:16:28,920 --> 00:16:32,490Podcasts are no longer privateconversations by Caitlin23700:16:32,490 --> 00:16:35,610Tiffany. And I just took twoparagraphs from this just to23800:16:35,610 --> 00:16:37,920give you an idea of what thethinking is, by the way, there's23900:16:37,950 --> 00:16:40,710there's no real conclusion tothis article other than it's an24000:16:40,740 --> 00:16:43,470outrage that this can be saidand people can hear it. That's24100:16:43,470 --> 00:16:47,130really what is being said. Inthe beginning podcast money was24200:16:47,130 --> 00:16:50,340exchanging hands person toperson through monthly fees from24300:16:50,340 --> 00:16:54,210listeners via platforms likePatreon. The big money podcast24400:16:54,210 --> 00:16:57,750wars are just a few years old,and truly enormous exclusive24500:16:57,750 --> 00:17:01,410deals like Rogan's with Spotifyare still in a trial phase. But24600:17:01,410 --> 00:17:04,590as the business grows up, and asmore reporters or agitators24700:17:04,590 --> 00:17:08,340invest the time in poring overall this content, the days of24800:17:08,340 --> 00:17:11,400podcasting without consequenceswill be numbered.24900:17:12,660 --> 00:17:15,060without consequences, wow,podcast, I25000:17:15,060 --> 00:17:18,690want that T shirt. I'mpodcasting without consequences.25100:17:19,560 --> 00:17:23,520And then the second that lovethat, like it as podcasting25200:17:23,520 --> 00:17:27,300becomes further entrenched as amass media format and host25300:17:27,300 --> 00:17:31,650platforms grow in size, thesepressures will only increase25400:17:31,890 --> 00:17:36,000work like Patterson, that's aguy who listens to Rogan's show25500:17:36,000 --> 00:17:41,070for to note what he's doingwrong, I guess paid for it may25600:17:41,070 --> 00:17:43,800be getting easier as well. Thepast two weeks, this was25700:17:43,800 --> 00:17:45,990interesting on a differentlevel. The past two years have25800:17:45,990 --> 00:17:49,200brought lawsuits against majorpodcast companies like Sirius25900:17:49,200 --> 00:17:52,710XM, and Spotify as gimlet mediafor their lack of podcast26000:17:52,710 --> 00:17:56,430accessibility features,including transcriptions. So you26100:17:56,430 --> 00:18:00,000see there's this whole theseopportunities that we have that26200:18:00,000 --> 00:18:04,050of course, because of the wow,people are saying stuff I don't26300:18:04,050 --> 00:18:09,150like therefore, I write articlesabout it. Is not getting the26400:18:09,150 --> 00:18:15,120light of day. Yeah. So regardingregarding the separation of the26500:18:15,120 --> 00:18:19,080namespace, look at how thedevelopment works. We are26600:18:19,080 --> 00:18:25,470literally developing theactivity pub commenting tag,26700:18:26,220 --> 00:18:34,620technology element OP on thefly, you know, doing it with26800:18:35,310 --> 00:18:40,710everything in unison with theAPI with the podcast index dot26900:18:40,710 --> 00:18:45,570social. I mean, it that's justhow it that's how it works. It's27000:18:45,600 --> 00:18:49,080we didn't even plan anythingthat way. We just said, Let's do27100:18:49,080 --> 00:18:52,680it this way. And it felt goodand it grew. This, this would be27200:18:52,680 --> 00:18:55,830the equivalent of a fork ifanyone wants to do that. But I27300:18:55,830 --> 00:18:58,890think I think that would be avery, very unwise thing to do.27400:18:59,250 --> 00:19:01,980Well, if you but I want to getit out there that I think that27500:19:01,980 --> 00:19:04,290would be an unwise thing to do.Because I don't like it when I27600:19:04,290 --> 00:19:05,460hear this personally.27700:19:05,850 --> 00:19:10,620If you don't like if you don'tlike the deep the uncensor27800:19:10,620 --> 00:19:16,050ability of podcasting 2.0 Youdon't like God? You don't like27900:19:16,050 --> 00:19:19,710podcasts? Yes. Yeah, exactly.You're no longer talking about28000:19:19,710 --> 00:19:23,070podcasts. You're talking about acentralized system. Yeah.28100:19:23,250 --> 00:19:26,970Because that's, that's how itworks. So you know, I don't want28200:19:27,000 --> 00:19:29,880I'm not going to be the guy thatgoes out there and champions.28300:19:30,150 --> 00:19:34,350The free, you know, we roll goodand come to come to the fucking28400:19:34,350 --> 00:19:39,240No, no, I'm not No, no, ofcourse not. It's just not me.28500:19:39,840 --> 00:19:44,220But, but what people are doingis they are interested in what28600:19:44,220 --> 00:19:47,970this is. They may or might theymay come for different reasons.28700:19:48,000 --> 00:19:52,230So whatever you have your appsand services on podcast28800:19:52,230 --> 00:19:57,450index.org/apps which links fromnew podcast apps comm make sure28900:19:57,450 --> 00:20:00,780it's good because people arecoming to check out Your stuff.29000:20:01,770 --> 00:20:08,400We we are, in a sense, Google.We're the Google layer because29100:20:08,400 --> 00:20:08,670like,29200:20:09,450 --> 00:20:11,490I really hate that comparison.But I29300:20:12,090 --> 00:20:16,260know, I know. I know it. Wemean, we're the search engine.29400:20:17,760 --> 00:20:23,010The reason I said Google isbecause last night, just, I just29500:20:23,070 --> 00:20:26,520checked and I searched I got onGoogle and I searched for Info29600:20:26,520 --> 00:20:32,370Wars. pop right up. I, there's alink to info wars.com and Alex29700:20:32,370 --> 00:20:36,960Jones has been removed from allthe major podcasting.29800:20:37,800 --> 00:20:39,750archive.org is maybe a better,29900:20:40,200 --> 00:20:45,750okay. Okay. The, the, there's alayer, there's a layer there30000:20:45,810 --> 00:20:50,070that we represent, which is thelayer of, of information30100:20:50,070 --> 00:20:56,190storage, and collection, thenthe application layer at the30200:20:56,190 --> 00:20:59,970podcast app level. Anybody cancreate a podcast off the APIs30300:20:59,970 --> 00:21:02,610index data, and anybody canfilter out whatever they30400:21:02,610 --> 00:21:06,300exactly. Problem solved. I justdon't think it's a problem. It's30500:21:06,300 --> 00:21:07,590just not an issue. Well,30600:21:07,740 --> 00:21:10,200okay. So and I'll just hit itand I'll be done with it. And we30700:21:10,200 --> 00:21:16,470can bring in our guests boardmembers, it. Podcasting is30800:21:16,530 --> 00:21:22,020becoming extremely political,and I don't like it. And it's30900:21:22,020 --> 00:21:25,650unnecessary. And I'm speakingspecifically about the podcast31000:21:25,650 --> 00:21:32,040Hall of Fame. I have they alwaysasked me to vote I don't believe31100:21:32,040 --> 00:21:36,810in it. I was very honored when Igot you know, the whatever. Pod31200:21:36,810 --> 00:21:42,180father Hall of Fame Award 2015Quite a while ago, and then31300:21:42,180 --> 00:21:45,360unlike him, okay, I kind ofunderstand why I was asked and31400:21:45,360 --> 00:21:48,420Dave Winer and a couple otherpeople. But so what are all how31500:21:48,420 --> 00:21:50,910does all this other than I justtried to understand what the31600:21:50,910 --> 00:21:55,800criteria is, you know, for anaward or a Hall of Fame. And I31700:21:55,800 --> 00:21:59,010looked it up this year, because,of course, I was asked again, I31800:21:59,010 --> 00:22:01,410did not participate in beautycontests. I also don't tell31900:22:01,410 --> 00:22:05,640anyone which app I use over theother. The Hall of Fame32000:22:05,640 --> 00:22:09,120eligibility, the criterion forentry into the Hall of Fame is a32100:22:09,120 --> 00:22:12,510combination of mainstreampopularity, being considered a32200:22:12,510 --> 00:22:16,590great podcast or contributor tothe industry by their peers, or32300:22:16,650 --> 00:22:20,340or excelling in the medium ofpodcasting, as well as having32400:22:20,340 --> 00:22:24,330historical significance in apositive manner. Candidates32500:22:24,330 --> 00:22:27,060should have something to offerin all three of the categories32600:22:27,060 --> 00:22:30,540mentioned or be so outstandingin one or two, they deserve32700:22:30,540 --> 00:22:35,040inclusion. And to be eligible, anominee must have completed five32800:22:35,040 --> 00:22:37,740years since their firstinvolvement in the medium. But32900:22:37,740 --> 00:22:40,410longevity should not beconsidered a qualification in of33000:22:40,410 --> 00:22:46,830itself. So I'm not I'm not quitesure how that works. But I was33100:22:46,830 --> 00:22:51,690happy to see Dave Slusher.inducted into the Hall of Fame.33200:22:52,050 --> 00:22:54,600I think the only that I knew ofsome of the other names but Dave33300:22:54,600 --> 00:23:00,030Slusher, who had evil geniusChronicles he definitely was33400:23:00,060 --> 00:23:03,750early in the development ofpodcasting, he was key he was33500:23:03,750 --> 00:23:07,560there and a key part of thefeedback loop. But when I look33600:23:07,560 --> 00:23:17,400at these these criteria, orcriterion as they say tell me33700:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,010why Joe Rogan is not in thepodcasting Hall of Fame.33800:23:21,660 --> 00:23:24,450He he is a wonder he is he hascreated33900:23:24,450 --> 00:23:32,340an entire format that is nowreplicated by mainstream it is34000:23:32,370 --> 00:23:37,050it is the largest podcast by farhe has brought more people to34100:23:37,050 --> 00:23:42,240podcasting than I have. He hasspawned more entertaining34200:23:42,240 --> 00:23:52,620podcasts that I can count solet's stop this shit. Politics34300:23:52,620 --> 00:23:56,040should get out and let's justlook at it as sport34400:23:58,650 --> 00:24:02,280you can now play in honor ofthis segment you can now play34500:24:02,280 --> 00:24:04,710the greatest ISO in the historyof ISOs34600:24:04,950 --> 00:24:09,030Okay, is it the one I think itis? The only one okay here we go34700:24:09,120 --> 00:24:18,330podcast canceled was that that'sthat's some that's that's where34800:24:18,330 --> 00:24:19,530I go to the whale. I'm not34900:24:19,830 --> 00:24:23,640revealing. Oh, okay. Oh, wellhold on a second since since35000:24:23,640 --> 00:24:24,810we're playing it that way.35100:24:25,649 --> 00:24:29,099Loose. Mm hmm. Yeah,35200:24:29,190 --> 00:24:33,570I got my own well, brother.Let's bring in our guest board35300:24:33,570 --> 00:24:37,470members for today. They are thethe two head honchos. The only35400:24:37,470 --> 00:24:40,800men that count over the odd thathated if I said that. They are35500:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,680the men behind Buzzsprout.Ladies and gentlemen, please35600:24:43,680 --> 00:24:46,890welcome back to the boardmeeting. Tom Rossi and Kevin35700:24:46,890 --> 00:24:47,280Finn.35800:24:48,150 --> 00:24:49,560Hey guys, thanks for having us.35900:24:49,740 --> 00:24:50,910Hey, guys, good to be here.36000:24:50,940 --> 00:24:54,510Oh my god. You both actually didyou tube openers. Great. Hey36100:24:54,510 --> 00:24:55,140guys,36200:24:55,890 --> 00:24:57,810guys, like and subscribe.36300:24:59,340 --> 00:25:04,440Like Button I just got this gotthis picture of of swinging the36400:25:04,440 --> 00:25:07,410book boardroom door open inKevin's Kevin's here with a half36500:25:07,410 --> 00:25:08,790eaten donut and a cup of coffee36600:25:13,559 --> 00:25:16,169guys, I'm glad I was, you know,I was wanting to have y'all back36700:25:16,169 --> 00:25:21,449home because there's so muchgoing on and the last time. This36800:25:21,449 --> 00:25:26,189is funny. This is funny how muchof a cycle this is the last time36900:25:26,219 --> 00:25:32,309that you guys were on the show.I had COVID Now, Adam has COVID37000:25:32,309 --> 00:25:40,109Hey, wait a minute. And and thethe first time we hit you out of37100:25:40,109 --> 00:25:43,199the blue with value for valuereveal in the lightning stuff.37200:25:43,709 --> 00:25:46,859Yeah. It was like a deer in theheadlights. What the heck just37300:25:46,859 --> 00:25:53,459happened? And then yet justyesterday. Kevin put bus cast on37400:25:53,459 --> 00:25:57,119the value for value with thevalue blog. All right, finally37500:25:57,119 --> 00:25:58,019boost buzz gas.37600:25:58,050 --> 00:26:01,560Oh, so Right. And so we'll giveyou a nice healthy slice of37700:26:01,560 --> 00:26:04,140today's value block for the 2.0show.37800:26:04,439 --> 00:26:07,229Yes, we will. Yeah, you will bein our episode level split.37900:26:07,260 --> 00:26:11,700That's right. It's like Oprah'sbook club. Only different. Yes.38000:26:12,570 --> 00:26:15,480You'll get some SATs and you'llget some sass.38100:26:16,020 --> 00:26:19,710Yeah. And I've been to school onthe value for value payments all38200:26:19,710 --> 00:26:22,470week. And so that was the lastto do on my list was to make38300:26:22,470 --> 00:26:26,100sure buzz cast was lightningenabled.38400:26:26,910 --> 00:26:29,520Yeah, we were trying to figureout the problem with you can't38500:26:29,520 --> 00:26:32,280get your list grams out oftelegram though. So trying to38600:26:32,280 --> 00:26:33,120figure that out. I thought38700:26:33,120 --> 00:26:37,110that I thought that Satoshistream that didn't help pioneer38800:26:37,110 --> 00:26:38,460that How come that doesn't work?38900:26:39,300 --> 00:26:42,450It does work because people areusing it. I just we're we're39000:26:42,450 --> 00:26:45,330missing something. I don't usethe tissue industry myself. So I39100:26:45,330 --> 00:26:49,170don't know. Like I'm not the I'mnot the guru there. But I posted39200:26:49,170 --> 00:26:51,060in there to help Kevin. Yeah, I39300:26:51,060 --> 00:26:53,550see the boost coming through.But I can't get the contents of39400:26:53,550 --> 00:26:54,180the message.39500:26:54,270 --> 00:26:56,880I think there's there's some wayI thought there was some way you39600:26:56,880 --> 00:27:00,930could trigger the bot to thentell it telegram you the message39700:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,700with the booster Graham but Icould be wrong.39800:27:03,420 --> 00:27:05,730Yeah, he sounds right. I justdon't know the right command.39900:27:06,180 --> 00:27:09,450He sent me a message saying,hey, I need you know, I need40000:27:09,450 --> 00:27:14,070this reason. I need my post castreset so that I can re register40100:27:14,070 --> 00:27:19,290in podcast or wallet. So went inthere to reset it. And it was40200:27:19,290 --> 00:27:22,110literally the first record inthe database, because that's the40300:27:22,110 --> 00:27:28,230day that we did it. And you Oh,yeah. And so I reset it. And you40400:27:28,230 --> 00:27:31,410know, what I wanted to ask you,you know, what I wanted to say40500:27:31,410 --> 00:27:36,060was, you know, Kevin, did youknow that you can email support40600:27:36,060 --> 00:27:38,760at bas cast calm and have themput your value book in there for40700:27:38,760 --> 00:27:38,880you?40800:27:44,610 --> 00:27:48,630She said he sent in the email tosupport@buzzsprout.com and asked40900:27:48,630 --> 00:27:51,990for the value block to be added.And then it gives us the ticket41000:27:51,990 --> 00:27:55,230gets assigned to me because I'mthe one that does. What's41100:27:55,260 --> 00:27:56,310happening here.41200:27:56,820 --> 00:27:58,050I'm losing my mind.41300:27:58,260 --> 00:28:00,510Yeah, just trying to doeverything by the book. Well,41400:28:00,540 --> 00:28:03,720the thing is, though, I don'tknow that you understand what an41500:28:03,720 --> 00:28:06,960accomplishment it is to getKevin to do that. Because he is41600:28:06,990 --> 00:28:11,370you know, he's the UI UX guy.And for him to make it through41700:28:11,880 --> 00:28:15,210the obstacles means that we'vecome a long way in setting it up41800:28:15,240 --> 00:28:17,370that he's able to do that. Sothat's great.41900:28:17,820 --> 00:28:21,930I love it. I'm terrified whensomebody says he's the UI UX42000:28:21,930 --> 00:28:27,240guy. And then in the didn't haveto think about your disgust as42100:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,930you went through the podcastwallet calm process, with with42200:28:30,930 --> 00:28:33,750the horrible the UI that i Hey,man,42300:28:33,750 --> 00:28:38,100hey, I live. I've been livingwith that kind of UX UI for over42400:28:38,100 --> 00:28:41,460a decade. And I love my DaveJones work.42500:28:41,610 --> 00:28:45,810It is the user it is the userinterface equivalent of a beat42600:28:45,810 --> 00:28:50,190up f1 fit 1983 F 150. That isthat is exactly what you get.42700:28:50,550 --> 00:28:50,880Hey,42800:28:50,969 --> 00:28:53,669it worked. It worked. I was Iwas delighted though, after I42900:28:53,669 --> 00:28:56,459set everything up. Then I foundlike you've got little three43000:28:56,459 --> 00:28:58,889little icons in a row in themiddle one I think is edit and I43100:28:58,889 --> 00:29:03,179can edit my value block on thepodcast or wallet. Yeah, but I43200:29:03,179 --> 00:29:06,929did. I was telling Dave earlierthat I did it after I'd already43300:29:06,989 --> 00:29:10,049manually updated my value blockand sent it to Tom. And then I43400:29:10,049 --> 00:29:13,319was annoyed because the podcastindex value block that they43500:29:13,319 --> 00:29:15,149wrote out the tags were in adifferent order than the one I43600:29:15,149 --> 00:29:20,399met. My OCD was triggered bigtime.43700:29:20,670 --> 00:29:24,240Yeah, that's like a you know,nobody sees that. Kevin. It's43800:29:24,270 --> 00:29:25,950it's all his interview brother.43900:29:26,190 --> 00:29:28,380But I know I know. It's stillthat way. So I've got44000:29:29,370 --> 00:29:35,910Yeah, so you have done a I meana ton of stuff you you've got. I44100:29:35,910 --> 00:29:38,490mean, tell me tell me the tagsyou've got now you obviously44200:29:38,490 --> 00:29:43,590logged obviously, chapters. Youare in the GUID like44300:29:43,710 --> 00:29:48,750book Hold on. If I if I can justinterrupt for one second. I just44400:29:48,750 --> 00:29:52,860want to thank you guys. I mean,because we're you know, talking44500:29:52,860 --> 00:29:55,590about the first entry in thedatabase and going back and you44600:29:55,590 --> 00:29:58,140know, the first time you gaveCOVID to us and all that and44700:29:59,400 --> 00:30:02,670just reminisce Listening. Andyou know, look at where we've44800:30:02,670 --> 00:30:05,400come from not knowing eachother, to now having a44900:30:05,400 --> 00:30:08,580conversation like, Man, you'veimplemented so many tags, where45000:30:08,580 --> 00:30:11,100are you? I mean, I just want tostop and recognize that and45100:30:11,100 --> 00:30:11,910thank you for it.45200:30:13,349 --> 00:30:17,609Well, thank you guys. It's it'sbeen great to see the things45300:30:17,609 --> 00:30:19,319that we've been able toaccomplish in such a short45400:30:19,349 --> 00:30:23,249amount of time. I mean, it's,it's benefiting the whole45500:30:23,249 --> 00:30:27,389industry for which we are a partof and so we're really thankful45600:30:27,389 --> 00:30:28,589for the work that you guys havedone.45700:30:29,009 --> 00:30:33,719Yeah. Yeah. What do y'allsupport? Now? Y'all see y'all45800:30:33,719 --> 00:30:35,999have good down.45900:30:36,149 --> 00:30:40,619Yeah, tag wise we do. Transcriptlocked funding chapters, sound46000:30:40,619 --> 00:30:46,649bytes, location, person, Gu ID,and value. And value is not in46100:30:46,649 --> 00:30:48,839the UI. That's a supportrequest.46200:30:50,160 --> 00:30:51,540That's robot Tom, just send a46300:30:51,870 --> 00:30:56,100robot, like go straight to Tom,which is a valuable thing to46400:30:56,100 --> 00:30:59,340know. Because you can just putin a phony value blog request,46500:30:59,340 --> 00:31:01,410and then just really ask himanything you want.46600:31:02,850 --> 00:31:05,790What's great is I got to testthat value system yesterday. And46700:31:05,790 --> 00:31:08,520I think he had an in withinabout 10 minutes, email. And46800:31:08,520 --> 00:31:10,560within 10 minutes, he wrote backand said, I'll say,46900:31:11,160 --> 00:31:14,280Wow, that's really credible.It's really cool, man.47000:31:15,300 --> 00:31:20,790And so what you've got, you'vegot an on the chat on the47100:31:20,790 --> 00:31:25,260chapter front. You pray Eve, Ithink y'all tweaked that at one47200:31:25,260 --> 00:31:28,650point. And now you've got mosteverything that chapters can do47300:31:28,650 --> 00:31:31,200in there. I mean, not notliterally everything. And like,47400:31:31,230 --> 00:31:33,540there's some other stuff that'skind of obscure, like you can47500:31:33,540 --> 00:31:36,540add locations to chapters, buthe's got the main ones. And47600:31:36,540 --> 00:31:40,440you've got the you got pictures.Do you have links?47700:31:40,620 --> 00:31:44,370Yes, we have links and pictures.We launched it with just links.47800:31:44,940 --> 00:31:47,400But we came back later and addedimages. Yeah,47900:31:47,550 --> 00:31:48,600yeah, that's right. Oh, yeah.48000:31:48,630 --> 00:31:51,930How much overhead is that? Howmuch overhead? Did that add for48100:31:51,930 --> 00:31:55,290you with the images? Making?Does it make a dent?48200:31:56,070 --> 00:31:59,880No. I mean, the goal withchapters, right is that it48300:31:59,880 --> 00:32:03,660should reduce overhead, becausewe're moving out of putting all48400:32:03,660 --> 00:32:08,400that inside of metadata, makingit a link in the RSS feed. So48500:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,000this is a great example ofwhere, you know, it's benefiting48600:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,790both Buzzsprout in the podcastindex for us working together,48700:32:14,790 --> 00:32:18,660because eventually we hope thatmore people will respect the48800:32:18,660 --> 00:32:22,500chapters tag and stop pullingmeta information out of the mp3,48900:32:22,530 --> 00:32:25,170right, which will makeeverybody's life better.49000:32:25,800 --> 00:32:31,320Yeah. Did y'all see that Google?drop their namespace? Evidently,49100:32:31,320 --> 00:32:34,830evidently, they just abandon it.And Google abandoned49200:32:34,830 --> 00:32:35,280something.49300:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,310No, that never happened. Theysay49400:32:38,310 --> 00:32:40,320it was a sunset. It was abeautiful sunset.49500:32:40,650 --> 00:32:45,450It was yes. Like, no, you had tosee that. Yeah, I was glad to49600:32:45,450 --> 00:32:49,020see that. I was glad to see in,get your thoughts on it, that,49700:32:49,110 --> 00:32:52,770that they not only abandoned it,which I thought it was. It was49800:32:52,770 --> 00:32:56,430kind of a waste of everybody'stime, but that they also took49900:32:56,430 --> 00:32:59,280the documentation off and appearto be saying like, Look, don't50000:32:59,280 --> 00:33:01,350even use it because a lot oftimes those things get50100:33:01,350 --> 00:33:05,430abandoned. But then the the theinformation about it stays up50200:33:05,430 --> 00:33:07,440online, like, like Symbian50300:33:07,440 --> 00:33:08,490iOS II?50400:33:09,060 --> 00:33:12,750Yeah. Yeah. As opposed to Applewho took the documentation down50500:33:12,810 --> 00:33:17,430before they stopped. Doing specis still not published.50600:33:17,460 --> 00:33:21,000I'm still looking for theAppleScript documentation.50700:33:21,000 --> 00:33:23,880Honestly. It was never findable.50800:33:24,390 --> 00:33:27,870Yeah, try it try to Google forthe Apple podcast or50900:33:27,870 --> 00:33:31,890recommendations like the bestpractices. It's it's unfixable?51000:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,500Yeah, it's completelyunfindable. Yeah,51100:33:34,560 --> 00:33:37,860I think the link in their, intheir DTD that you put in the51200:33:37,860 --> 00:33:41,520top of every RSS feed forpodcasting goes to nowhere. It's51300:33:41,520 --> 00:33:42,180a portal for51400:33:44,100 --> 00:33:47,760the standard for the for apodcast RSS feed includes a link51500:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,840to a forum for like,51600:33:51,090 --> 00:33:53,010Hey, we're moving it forward.51700:33:53,520 --> 00:33:57,300Yes. Well, this is what I wantedto kind of get into a little bit51800:33:57,360 --> 00:34:04,230because I want I want to reallyopinion here. The Google51900:34:04,230 --> 00:34:08,490namespace probably should havenever existed, so that's fine.52000:34:08,910 --> 00:34:12,420But now what we're left withreally is for now obviously,52100:34:12,420 --> 00:34:15,090there's others I understand thatthere's W core, there's there's52200:34:15,090 --> 00:34:23,880things but as far as main streamact, actively used, that's not52300:34:23,880 --> 00:34:26,430the right word. I'm trying tosay. Anyway, as far as important52400:34:26,430 --> 00:34:31,200to podcasting namespaces goright now. You have iTunes and52500:34:31,200 --> 00:34:37,440you have the podcast namespace.I am still have a deeply held52600:34:37,440 --> 00:34:43,890belief that the podcastnamespace should be the single,52700:34:44,100 --> 00:34:48,360holistic, fully baked namespacethat incorporates everything.52800:34:48,900 --> 00:34:53,250Now, because iTunes belongs to acompany, it doesn't belong to52900:34:53,250 --> 00:34:59,850podcasting. Do so that makes methink that what we shouldn't be53000:34:59,850 --> 00:35:06,810doing Long Term is incorporatingthe iTunes tags into the podcast53100:35:06,810 --> 00:35:11,610namespace tags, so that theyhave equal representation. So53200:35:11,610 --> 00:35:13,770that some at some point in thefuture, let's say it's 10 years53300:35:13,770 --> 00:35:16,950from now, some point in thefuture people can just drop in53400:35:16,950 --> 00:35:20,640the podcast namespace and haveall of it and not have to have53500:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,650a, the the open sourcepodcasting namespace. And this53600:35:25,650 --> 00:35:29,160other namespace is owned andoperated, controlled by the53700:35:29,160 --> 00:35:30,180largest company in the world.53800:35:30,990 --> 00:35:35,640Yeah, I mean, it's reminiscentof what happened with HTML on53900:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,190the web, right, with InternetExplorer, and Microsoft creating54000:35:38,190 --> 00:35:41,520all their own standards. And Ithink we reached, you know,54100:35:41,520 --> 00:35:46,410Pinnacle garbage with like, iesix, or IE seven. And that is54200:35:46,410 --> 00:35:49,740where the W three C as anorganization came around and54300:35:49,740 --> 00:35:52,800said, the web is bigger thanInternet Explorer. And there54400:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,380needs to be some standards, andthey started working on, I think54500:35:55,380 --> 00:35:59,100it was first x HTML and Bordado,transitional and for Dotto one.54600:35:59,100 --> 00:36:01,620But then when they came out,they finally put a really good54700:36:01,620 --> 00:36:06,840spec together with html5. And atthe same time, Chrome launch on54800:36:06,870 --> 00:36:09,840latched on to that or theChromium project or whatever.54900:36:10,470 --> 00:36:11,880Anyway, we don't need to gothrough the whole history of55000:36:11,880 --> 00:36:14,700what happened in the web. Butit's, it's, it's similar to what55100:36:14,760 --> 00:36:17,220needs to happen in podcasting.So I would agree with what55200:36:17,220 --> 00:36:19,620you're saying the position thatyou're taking, and I don't know55300:36:19,620 --> 00:36:22,770that. I mean, who knows whatgoes on behind the walls at55400:36:22,770 --> 00:36:26,430Cupertino, and what their theirmotives were when they came out55500:36:26,430 --> 00:36:29,670with a spec. But you can'treally point a finger at them55600:36:29,670 --> 00:36:32,100and say, You guys shouldn't bedoing this when the community55700:36:32,370 --> 00:36:35,910when podcasting as a wholehasn't offered an alternative.55800:36:36,510 --> 00:36:39,300Yeah. And so I think that is thedirection that we need to move.55900:36:39,630 --> 00:36:42,180And then when we get to thatpoint, then we can, you know,56000:36:42,180 --> 00:36:44,130start to point the finger to himand say, Hey, we really don't56100:36:44,130 --> 00:36:46,650need you guys providing your ownnamespace anymore. This one56200:36:46,650 --> 00:36:49,680covers everything that you have,and more so and you can support56300:36:49,680 --> 00:36:51,030as much or as little as youwant.56400:36:51,060 --> 00:36:55,410Can it can ask the question. Sodoes this mean that we will56500:36:55,410 --> 00:37:02,940replicate tags that are in theiTunes namespace that will56600:37:02,940 --> 00:37:06,750replicate them in the podcastnamespace? does that also mean56700:37:06,750 --> 00:37:09,810it'll have the iTunes colonblock? I mean, will it have56800:37:09,810 --> 00:37:11,550iTunes in there? It won't havethat.56900:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,790No, it will just be like, like,for instance, in the podcast57000:37:14,790 --> 00:37:19,350namespace, there is no, there isno block tag. There is no57100:37:19,350 --> 00:37:25,260podcast colon block, right? Yet.There is a proposal for one. The57200:37:25,260 --> 00:37:29,730iTunes does have iTunes colonblock. So we would just when we57300:37:29,730 --> 00:37:34,110implement podcast colon block,that could be a direct57400:37:34,110 --> 00:37:36,510replacement for iTunes block.And we would do that we would57500:37:36,510 --> 00:37:39,960just go through and say, youknow, okay, here's this, this57600:37:39,960 --> 00:37:40,590tag sheets.57700:37:40,590 --> 00:37:45,210And here's, here's myprediction. Google saw that57800:37:45,210 --> 00:37:48,600Google knows what we're doing.They dropped it, they gave up57900:37:48,630 --> 00:37:51,450they're fine. I think they'refine. If they do anything,58000:37:51,450 --> 00:37:55,380they'll use the podcastnamespace. I think Apple58100:37:55,380 --> 00:38:01,290capitulated. It, you know, a lotof things happened in tandem, I58200:38:01,290 --> 00:38:06,900had a conversation with the Oh,my God, I forgot his name58300:38:06,900 --> 00:38:11,580already. Games, bugs, yeah,bugs. And I said, You're crazy.58400:38:12,780 --> 00:38:14,580And he said, That's a great wayto start a conversation.58500:38:16,800 --> 00:38:19,740And of course, they said whatyou do, and it's crazy, don't do58600:38:19,740 --> 00:38:23,190that. And so they went all in onthe subscriptions because I58700:38:23,190 --> 00:38:27,810thought that was going to be thebig play against Spotify. For58800:38:27,810 --> 00:38:30,870all intents and purposes, Ithink that's failed, but they58900:38:30,870 --> 00:38:34,740turned around screwed up whatthey were doing kind of okay.59000:38:35,070 --> 00:38:38,400And I think that they wouldprobably die. Dave, you and I59100:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,160spoke about it. I think theywelcome the fact that podcasting59200:38:41,160 --> 00:38:44,370was going to be safe over therewere the nut jobs. So they could59300:38:44,370 --> 00:38:48,150go and drop it. They dropped itin there doing of course they59400:38:48,150 --> 00:38:50,280put someone on to fix theproblems. I don't know if59500:38:50,280 --> 00:38:53,790they're all fixed right now. Idon't think they I really don't59600:38:53,790 --> 00:38:58,200think they would mind droppingit all together and saying you59700:38:58,200 --> 00:39:01,920know what, use this we don'twant to maintain it. It's just59800:39:01,920 --> 00:39:06,630an it's just an annoying add onfor us at this point. And but59900:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,280I'm so confident that I lovemaking the annual bet with James60000:39:11,280 --> 00:39:14,160Cridland, I will keep winningmoney from him. They will never60100:39:14,190 --> 00:39:20,310release iTunes or podcast app onon Windows or Android. I mean,60200:39:20,610 --> 00:39:24,000because they they show nosupport for it. They don't care60300:39:25,829 --> 00:39:28,379for for the four of four of thenamespace and60400:39:29,940 --> 00:39:31,560404 of the namespace60500:39:31,589 --> 00:39:32,339Yes, yes.60600:39:32,370 --> 00:39:35,580Seriously, I I think that's agreat idea. I mean, I was a60700:39:35,580 --> 00:39:39,090little concerned because Ididn't want any Apple glue in60800:39:39,090 --> 00:39:41,880the in the namespace. But if ifwe're just replicating, you60900:39:41,880 --> 00:39:44,340know, the tags that we don'thave or work a little61000:39:44,340 --> 00:39:46,440differently. Yeah, this seemslike a great drop in61100:39:46,440 --> 00:39:48,480replacement, said he veryexpertly.61200:39:49,200 --> 00:39:51,480Yeah, and I think they'vealready demonstrated that61300:39:51,480 --> 00:39:54,480they're willing to do it likethey have moved away from a few61400:39:54,480 --> 00:39:58,830of the iTunes proprietary tags.I used to have a tag. That was61500:39:58,890 --> 00:40:01,710no description. call an iTunesor something iTunes go in61600:40:01,710 --> 00:40:04,290description whichever directionit was. But in their latest61700:40:04,290 --> 00:40:06,690documentation in the latestrelease of their app, now61800:40:06,690 --> 00:40:09,120they're just reading the podcastdocumentation or not61900:40:09,120 --> 00:40:10,590documentation description.62000:40:10,740 --> 00:40:14,010Can I ask you guys did you doyou see a lot of people doing62100:40:14,250 --> 00:40:17,220private stuff at thesubscription stuff at Apple? I62200:40:17,220 --> 00:40:20,490mean, just not necessarily yourclients Makino is a real uptake62300:40:20,490 --> 00:40:22,890on that. I mean, I'm, I'm justsaying I don't see it. But62400:40:23,250 --> 00:40:26,100no, we don't see it either.Yeah, a few of our bigger62500:40:26,100 --> 00:40:28,830podcasts are doing it. It'sstill a lot of hurdles to jump62600:40:28,830 --> 00:40:32,280through to just be able tomonetize one subset of your62700:40:32,280 --> 00:40:33,780audience. Course62800:40:33,810 --> 00:40:36,780da. Yeah,62900:40:37,680 --> 00:40:43,260dude, I don't think just fromyou know, our chats in the past63000:40:43,260 --> 00:40:46,650and stuff. Tom, I don't. I don'tthink y'all really have a taste63100:40:46,650 --> 00:40:51,540for the whole private feedsubscription model. Or at least63200:40:51,540 --> 00:40:54,210if you do, it's not, it doesn'tseem like it's something that63300:40:54,210 --> 00:40:55,920you're, you know, aggressiveabout.63400:40:56,579 --> 00:40:58,889Yeah, it's definitely notsomething that we're aggressive63500:40:58,889 --> 00:41:02,129about, because we think it isjust one way, right? It's just63600:41:02,129 --> 00:41:06,329one way for a podcaster topotentially control the way that63700:41:06,329 --> 00:41:08,879they want their their podcast tobe consumed right through a63800:41:08,879 --> 00:41:11,369subscription. And that's howthey're gonna monetize it or for63900:41:11,369 --> 00:41:14,999whatever reason, but it's notthe end all be all. It's not.64000:41:15,209 --> 00:41:18,629It's not the only way. And Ithink that's, that's kind of our64100:41:18,629 --> 00:41:19,349position on it.64200:41:19,530 --> 00:41:22,200Yeah, I like, you know, um, Idon't know if you guys have ever64300:41:22,200 --> 00:41:25,170listened to the ditheringpodcast with John Gruber. And64400:41:26,370 --> 00:41:28,830no, I haven't No, no. Okay.Well,64500:41:28,860 --> 00:41:31,410they do a I mean, it'ssubscription only, right. So64600:41:31,410 --> 00:41:33,960they've got an episode that theyput out as a, you know, a64700:41:33,960 --> 00:41:36,420freebie teaser. And then theyjust if you want to listen to64800:41:36,420 --> 00:41:39,090their podcast, you pay him $5 amonth, and you get three64900:41:39,090 --> 00:41:42,030episodes every week, 15 minutesan episode, and I subscribed65000:41:42,030 --> 00:41:44,250paying $5 A month because forme, it's worth that I enjoy that65100:41:44,250 --> 00:41:49,170show. But the that's that's onesubscription model and it works65200:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,050for them. And it works for me aslistener, but the idea that65300:41:52,050 --> 00:41:56,040somebody would do a regularshow, and then do premium or65400:41:56,130 --> 00:41:58,860special episodes and put thatbehind the paywall to me doesn't65500:41:58,860 --> 00:42:01,260make any sense. Why are yougoing to take your absolute best65600:42:01,260 --> 00:42:03,840stuff and hide that from anybodywho's not willing to pay you?65700:42:04,440 --> 00:42:07,950Yeah, yeah, this is the beststuff. And this is the stuff65800:42:07,980 --> 00:42:10,950worth paying for. Go ahead andput that out there. And so65900:42:10,950 --> 00:42:14,130people can find you discover youfind value in what you're doing,66000:42:14,130 --> 00:42:15,960and then give them the abilityto pay.66100:42:15,990 --> 00:42:18,570And that that's like what youwere talking about. Kevin, you66200:42:18,570 --> 00:42:22,380talked about this on buzz cast,maybe a couple weeks ago, but66300:42:22,380 --> 00:42:25,680just talking about, that's greatfor somebody who has a following66400:42:25,710 --> 00:42:28,380Sam Harris as a podcast that Ilistened to as well. And he has66500:42:28,380 --> 00:42:31,500a subscription model where he'llhave a limited episode that's66600:42:31,500 --> 00:42:33,270available to the public. But ifyou want to hear the whole66700:42:33,270 --> 00:42:34,890thing, you've got to gosubscribe, same thing. But if66800:42:34,890 --> 00:42:37,920you've got a following like SamHarris, or the dithering66900:42:37,920 --> 00:42:40,200podcast, then you can do that.But what about the guy who's67000:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,850building the following, if theonly offer for him for for being67100:42:44,850 --> 00:42:48,660able to monetize his podcast isto grow a massive following, and67200:42:48,660 --> 00:42:51,720then turn it all off to turn itinto a subscription model? It67300:42:51,720 --> 00:42:54,180just, it's just not gonna workfor everybody. There's no stop.67400:42:54,180 --> 00:42:57,990A lot of people from being ableto get into podcast is nothing67500:42:57,990 --> 00:43:02,340like starting a podcast tellinga few buddies, and then within67600:43:02,340 --> 00:43:08,430five minutes of publishing yourepisode. There's nothing like67700:43:08,430 --> 00:43:11,610that feeling. Yeah, there'snothing like it, you get those67800:43:11,610 --> 00:43:15,570Satoshis coming in, be like youjust have I'm happy.67900:43:16,440 --> 00:43:19,800When we, when we first launcheda bus route, I remember, it68000:43:19,800 --> 00:43:22,140would send us an emailBuzzsprout would actually send68100:43:22,140 --> 00:43:25,380Kevin and I an email on timesomeone published an episode.68200:43:25,500 --> 00:43:29,280And he thought it was soawesome. Because we made it so68300:43:29,280 --> 00:43:31,980easy. Anybody could just take arecording, they didn't have to68400:43:31,980 --> 00:43:33,900know anything about mp3. They'dhave to know anything about68500:43:33,900 --> 00:43:36,360encoding, they could just takeany audio recording and release68600:43:36,360 --> 00:43:39,270a podcast. And we were soexcited. We would get an email68700:43:39,300 --> 00:43:41,460so that we could go in andlisten and see you know what's68800:43:42,600 --> 00:43:45,570out there. Yeah. And it's justit's just crazy. Like you said,68900:43:45,570 --> 00:43:48,990just how how easy it is forsomeone right now to be able to69000:43:48,990 --> 00:43:51,540get with their buddies recordsomething and get it out there69100:43:51,540 --> 00:43:52,590to the world in no time.69200:43:53,159 --> 00:43:57,419Well, I was thinking about thesort of the pay wall type deal69300:43:57,419 --> 00:43:59,429because I've thought about thisin the past and we've come up69400:43:59,429 --> 00:44:03,419with with some ideas and thenactually Mike over at Red Circle69500:44:04,979 --> 00:44:07,409posted on the on the master onthe other day about this thing69600:44:07,409 --> 00:44:09,689called pod pass that I'd neverheard of it. If you69700:44:09,689 --> 00:44:12,089really are that you are reallythe slot of the hosting69800:44:12,089 --> 00:44:16,709companies, aren't you? You laydown with everybody, man. Yeah,69900:44:16,709 --> 00:44:17,849always talking to him.70000:44:18,630 --> 00:44:23,790And I was like, I've never evenheard of this thing. It's like70100:44:23,790 --> 00:44:27,660this fully fleshed out thingfrom those radio public, I70200:44:27,660 --> 00:44:32,460think. Anyways, this fullyfleshed out way for like, apps70300:44:32,460 --> 00:44:36,360to pass through a subscriptionthing and get a token back. And70400:44:36,480 --> 00:44:42,030so there's been all these allthese concepts around how to do70500:44:42,360 --> 00:44:46,200open subscriptions where youdon't have to have like a70600:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,580separate private feed and allthis jazz. And so I keep70700:44:50,580 --> 00:44:53,940bouncing back and forth betweenis that really like I don't, I70800:44:53,940 --> 00:44:56,310don't know whether that's areally valuable use of time70900:44:56,310 --> 00:45:01,410because just just like you said,Kevin, I don't Just the whole71000:45:01,410 --> 00:45:05,520notion that you're going totake, you're going to make your71100:45:05,520 --> 00:45:10,650content, not listen to people,by most people. I mean, I get71200:45:10,650 --> 00:45:13,620it, I understand themonetization of that, of that. I71300:45:13,620 --> 00:45:18,030mean, I get I understand theconcept clearly. But I don't71400:45:18,030 --> 00:45:20,610know, it's just a little weird.And I'm wondering if it's if71500:45:20,610 --> 00:45:24,750it's even worth spending time onto come up with an open source,71600:45:24,780 --> 00:45:27,030like an open standard forpaywalls?71700:45:29,099 --> 00:45:32,429Isn't there already somethinglike that? Or there was71800:45:32,429 --> 00:45:36,839something that was supposed todo that for? like Spotify is71900:45:36,839 --> 00:45:38,159open version72000:45:38,159 --> 00:45:43,049open access? Yeah, we've got allthese ideas. Here's the other72100:45:43,049 --> 00:45:43,619thing that bothers72200:45:43,619 --> 00:45:45,419me. But it's your job to dothat.72300:45:46,769 --> 00:45:51,659So that's what I'm not sure thatit's, it has that has that model72400:45:51,659 --> 00:45:56,159shown that it's sustainable forenough percentage of podcast is72500:45:56,159 --> 00:45:58,379worth spending all the time andeffort to do?72600:45:59,940 --> 00:46:03,450Yeah, I mean, my recommendationto our customers has always been72700:46:03,570 --> 00:46:07,410that you it's not until you getto a pretty big like until your72800:46:07,410 --> 00:46:10,920following is pretty big. Thechallenge with subscriptions is72900:46:10,920 --> 00:46:12,870that you're doing the sameamount of work to create this73000:46:12,900 --> 00:46:15,600alternative content, premiumcontent, bonus episodes,73100:46:15,630 --> 00:46:18,240whatever it is that you decideto do, whether you have one73200:46:18,240 --> 00:46:22,110subscriber or you have 50,000.And so if it takes an extra 1073300:46:22,110 --> 00:46:24,870or 15 hours of your week to goahead and create this content,73400:46:25,110 --> 00:46:28,110are you doing it for $5? Forthat one person? Are you doing73500:46:28,110 --> 00:46:32,370it for $50,000? For you know,all of them? And so if you have,73600:46:32,430 --> 00:46:35,490if you're huge, then maybe itmakes sense for you to explore73700:46:35,490 --> 00:46:38,160something like that. But themajority of podcasters are not73800:46:38,160 --> 00:46:39,810huge. It's not73900:46:39,810 --> 00:46:43,080it's not a starter, starter kittype idea.74000:46:43,469 --> 00:46:43,949That's right.74100:46:44,369 --> 00:46:47,039It's almost like a lid right? Assoon as you put a subscription.74200:46:47,039 --> 00:46:49,109As soon as you put a paywall infront of your podcast, you just74300:46:49,109 --> 00:46:52,169put a lid on your growth, right?It's not going to grow beyond74400:46:52,169 --> 00:46:55,379probably where you are, unlessyou've got some other avenue of74500:46:55,589 --> 00:46:58,439getting people to find out whoyou are and be interested.74600:46:59,309 --> 00:47:01,379Well, what do you think isinteresting is if you solve the74700:47:01,379 --> 00:47:05,369problem for the smallerpodcaster, and you solve it in a74800:47:05,369 --> 00:47:08,069way that's scalable, then whatyou have is a solution for74900:47:08,069 --> 00:47:08,579everybody.75000:47:09,239 --> 00:47:11,789Right? Yes, yes, yeah. Andthat's what gets us75100:47:11,910 --> 00:47:14,580excited. So I think whatsubscriptions today, what they75200:47:14,580 --> 00:47:17,070look like is they solved it forthe big person, but it doesn't75300:47:17,070 --> 00:47:20,310scale down. But if we do a goodjob of scaling it, you know,75400:47:20,430 --> 00:47:22,530creating a solution for thesmall person, I think there's a75500:47:22,530 --> 00:47:24,300better chance that that scalesup.75600:47:25,230 --> 00:47:28,710Yeah, cuz you can start if youfind the like, that's the value75700:47:28,740 --> 00:47:32,370value as a solution for I mean,you can, there is no barrier,75800:47:32,370 --> 00:47:35,040you just throw it out there. Andthen as you scale up bigger and75900:47:35,040 --> 00:47:37,650bigger, it just continues towork. I mean, like the the you76000:47:37,650 --> 00:47:40,770don't have to change models,depending on your size. And you76100:47:40,770 --> 00:47:44,250have to do that for advertisingrevenue to you can't advertise.76200:47:44,550 --> 00:47:46,800I mean, nobody's gonna beinterested in advertiser buying76300:47:46,830 --> 00:47:52,110buy ads on a on a show this got10 listeners, but but you can,76400:47:52,590 --> 00:47:55,680if you have, if you have 10listeners, and all 10 of those76500:47:55,680 --> 00:48:00,090listeners are willing to giveyou a value for value, then you76600:48:00,090 --> 00:48:03,270can do that. There's no like,Yeah, I think that's right.76700:48:03,270 --> 00:48:06,180Ultimately, the solution tothat, you know, has to be76800:48:06,210 --> 00:48:07,140scalable. Yeah.76900:48:07,590 --> 00:48:10,140You think about the podcaster.And you think about the77000:48:10,140 --> 00:48:13,680listener, neither one of themwant the advertisements, right?77100:48:13,710 --> 00:48:16,740The podcaster, doesn't want thathe wants the revenue. He wants77200:48:16,740 --> 00:48:18,990to be able to monetize thispodcast, but he doesn't want the77300:48:18,990 --> 00:48:21,720advertisement in the middle ofhis podcast. And the listener77400:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,290doesn't want that. It's just themonetization strategy that that77500:48:25,320 --> 00:48:29,820they're aware of. Right. And sothis idea that if we can find a77600:48:29,820 --> 00:48:32,400monetization strategy that worksthat doesn't involve77700:48:32,400 --> 00:48:35,130advertising, I mean, it could,but it doesn't have to involve77800:48:35,130 --> 00:48:38,190advertising, but it's somethingthat can scale up with the77900:48:38,190 --> 00:48:41,400podcast. That's, that's the kindof thing that Buzzsprout would78000:48:41,400 --> 00:48:42,990be interested in, because that'swhat we care about.78100:48:44,159 --> 00:48:48,089That is the worst. The worstaspect of this to me of the78200:48:48,089 --> 00:48:51,479paywall aspect is what I saw theother day. And I mean, you see78300:48:51,479 --> 00:48:55,139this a lot. But I was, I don'tknow how I ended up on Mamma Mia78400:48:55,139 --> 00:48:59,909his website. I was on theirwebsite and78500:49:01,079 --> 00:49:02,039have a musical.78600:49:03,330 --> 00:49:09,180No, not that one. The Australianpodcast Oh, oh host or78700:49:09,180 --> 00:49:15,510publishing company or whateverthey're in. They have it said,78800:49:15,840 --> 00:49:19,800you can listen to our podcast.But then if you want to, if you78900:49:19,800 --> 00:49:23,790want to get our bonus content,you have to subscribe. And79000:49:23,790 --> 00:49:27,570that's like these extra littlesmall episodes that they put out79100:49:28,500 --> 00:49:33,030in debt. That was like thatseems completely backwards to79200:49:33,030 --> 00:49:37,530me. Because it implies that yourbase product podcast isn't worth79300:49:37,530 --> 00:49:40,170anything in the only thing thatyou're going to like we want you79400:49:40,170 --> 00:49:45,210to pay so that you can get thisthis other stuff like it tells79500:49:45,210 --> 00:49:48,090the world it signals to theworld that our actual podcast79600:49:48,090 --> 00:49:52,320that everybody listens to isn'tvery valuable. Am I wrong?79700:49:54,119 --> 00:50:00,299No you're not you're spot on andand all of this is book Back to79800:50:00,299 --> 00:50:04,259my civility when people reallyreally love a product and79900:50:04,259 --> 00:50:07,919they're asked they will supportit. It's the same ask for80000:50:07,919 --> 00:50:14,099someone to subscribe to a secretsuperduper feed and pay $5 A80100:50:14,099 --> 00:50:17,999month extra as it is to say,hey, set up a recurring PayPal80200:50:18,509 --> 00:50:24,119now it's it's it's it's an oldit's it's bringing the old80300:50:24,119 --> 00:50:30,389thinking into the new world ofpaywall I personally, you know,80400:50:30,389 --> 00:50:35,009I think the interruptiveadvertising model is in its last80500:50:35,009 --> 00:50:39,209days, this is what streaming hasstreaming television and movies80600:50:39,209 --> 00:50:42,989has taught us everything andeverything that is interruptive80700:50:42,989 --> 00:50:48,569advertising is just going down.You know, is it still a long80800:50:48,569 --> 00:50:53,099road for radio to go away, etc.But I think that we're seeing80900:50:53,279 --> 00:51:01,169that is not the best model. Andthe with, with asking people to81000:51:01,169 --> 00:51:05,339support you, whether it'ssubscription or value for value,81100:51:05,369 --> 00:51:09,899or bringing food to your door,that can be done with one81200:51:09,899 --> 00:51:14,129listener, you don't need andthis is another thing, I just81300:51:14,129 --> 00:51:17,339want to press, the concept ofeveryone having to I got to grow81400:51:17,339 --> 00:51:20,459my show, I have to grow my show,my show has to grow. It's not81500:51:20,459 --> 00:51:29,399growing. It's not a fucking chiapet. It's so we I think we lose81600:51:29,399 --> 00:51:31,769sight of that often when we'retalking about these things.81700:51:31,919 --> 00:51:35,519People just want to podcast fora whole bunch of reasons. And a81800:51:35,519 --> 00:51:39,239lot of them fail. And that'swhat anchor is all about.81900:51:39,239 --> 00:51:42,749Because there was no realprofessional. Like, hey, here's82000:51:42,749 --> 00:51:45,239here's a real setup. And youknow, it's not just some stupid82100:51:45,239 --> 00:51:49,139app, you've got education,you're the the here, here is82200:51:49,169 --> 00:51:53,549sports, go ahead and create yourown. You know, everything else82300:51:53,549 --> 00:51:57,239to me is just ancillary. Andshould you know, there's enough82400:51:57,239 --> 00:52:00,239solutions out there, I don'tthink it has to be a technical82500:52:00,239 --> 00:52:03,239thing. Yeah, you know,82600:52:04,289 --> 00:52:07,559you mentioned a few minutes ago,Adam, like the feeling that you82700:52:07,559 --> 00:52:11,549get as a podcaster, when you getthat first payment, right,82800:52:11,549 --> 00:52:13,409somebody is listening to mypodcast, and I get the first82900:52:13,409 --> 00:52:16,559payment. That is an amazingfeeling. And then Tom mentioned83000:52:16,559 --> 00:52:18,539when we launched Buzzsprout, theamazing feeling that we would83100:52:18,539 --> 00:52:21,659get as a platform helpingsomebody push that content out83200:52:21,659 --> 00:52:24,329to the world. And then, youknow, just this week, I83300:52:24,329 --> 00:52:28,589experienced the third side ofthat, which is as a listener, I83400:52:28,589 --> 00:52:31,469set up a listening app, and Ifunded it. I funded the wall in83500:52:31,469 --> 00:52:34,079the app. And I started listeningto podcasts, and I set up my83600:52:34,079 --> 00:52:37,949streaming sets to the podcaster.And I'm getting dopamine hits,83700:52:37,979 --> 00:52:40,829as I'm listening to the podcast,knowing that I'm supporting the83800:52:40,829 --> 00:52:43,919person who I'm listening to.Yes, yes, like that. You're so83900:52:43,949 --> 00:52:47,099good. And when they saysomething great that I agree84000:52:47,099 --> 00:52:51,779with you boost the boost button.And I mean, that's, that is so84100:52:51,779 --> 00:52:54,389fun. I'm listening more podcaststhis week than I have, you know,84200:52:54,389 --> 00:52:56,849in the past two years, becauseI'm so excited to be able to84300:52:56,849 --> 00:53:01,049send money directly to theperson who I'm listening to your84400:53:01,559 --> 00:53:07,919entertainment. Poverty. Yeah.But yes, giving me something84500:53:07,919 --> 00:53:10,349they're educating me or they'reentertaining me or whatever it's84600:53:10,349 --> 00:53:13,169doing for me. Now I can giveback like, whatever I'm, I'm84700:53:13,169 --> 00:53:16,499binge watching Yellowstone rightnow. Right? And oh, I just84800:53:16,499 --> 00:53:20,129started that. Yeah. So it's beengreat. Fine. I'm watching84900:53:20,129 --> 00:53:22,889through the peacock andsomebody, NBC is getting rich,85000:53:23,099 --> 00:53:26,429fantastic. But if I if I knewwhen I was watching that show, I85100:53:26,429 --> 00:53:28,979could get super excited thatKevin Costner just you know,85200:53:29,009 --> 00:53:33,209often another bad guy booststraight to costume85300:53:34,289 --> 00:53:35,369costume with love it.85400:53:35,429 --> 00:53:37,529That's what that's theopportunity we have in85500:53:37,529 --> 00:53:39,659podcasting. There's no othermedium where you can do that85600:53:39,659 --> 00:53:40,109right now.85700:53:41,429 --> 00:53:45,569That so I sent my one of myfavorite podcasts is causality.85800:53:46,169 --> 00:53:49,769John Cage's podcast. And so heputs out it's one of these85900:53:49,769 --> 00:53:53,939podcasts where he, he just doesthis deep dive research into a86000:53:53,939 --> 00:53:56,519natural disasters are not anatural, I'm sorry, a an86100:53:56,519 --> 00:54:00,599engineering disaster. And then,however long it takes them to86200:54:00,599 --> 00:54:02,369research, that's how long it'sgonna take, and you're just86300:54:02,369 --> 00:54:06,509gonna have to wait. And so thenhe puts the show out. And it may86400:54:06,509 --> 00:54:10,409take two months, or it may takesix months. I don't know. But86500:54:10,679 --> 00:54:14,279it's gonna it's gonna be good.Is every time one of those lands86600:54:14,279 --> 00:54:17,999in my podcast app? I'm like,yes, I've been you know, a want86700:54:17,999 --> 00:54:20,969this because, you know, it'sgonna be an hour of just really86800:54:20,969 --> 00:54:25,619good content. And so he releasedhis episode a couple days ago.86900:54:25,829 --> 00:54:29,279Listen to it last night. I senthim 50,000 SATs, which is87000:54:29,279 --> 00:54:32,429roughly 20 bucks in a boost andput in put a booster gram87100:54:32,429 --> 00:54:36,119message in there. And it felt sogood. It just like you're87200:54:36,119 --> 00:54:39,659talking about Kevin, it feels sogood to know that within two87300:54:39,659 --> 00:54:42,569seconds, he's gonna see he'sgonna hear pew pew and he's87400:54:42,569 --> 00:54:46,079gonna see the 50,000 SATs andhe's gonna read the message. And87500:54:46,079 --> 00:54:50,189he did. He responded to me onMastodon about 20 minutes later87600:54:50,189 --> 00:54:53,519and he said, Thank you so muchfor the SATs, Boo Boo. It's just87700:54:54,599 --> 00:54:58,499that we you know, you can startthat. But I mean, that's that's87800:54:58,499 --> 00:55:02,819what that's what it's about. Itfeels so much better than it's87900:55:02,819 --> 00:55:06,479like. Like Tom said, everybody.Everybody involved hates the88000:55:06,479 --> 00:55:10,919advertising. So isn't it greatif we can take it out and make88100:55:10,919 --> 00:55:13,889it go away? Yeah. Anyway,88200:55:14,070 --> 00:55:18,150well also then, then you thework you're doing or the fun88300:55:18,150 --> 00:55:22,380you're having, or whateveryou're sharing becomes something88400:55:22,380 --> 00:55:26,130that you're doing for the peopleon the other end, not for the88500:55:26,130 --> 00:55:29,790numbers for advertising. This iswhat pisses me off. And that's88600:55:29,790 --> 00:55:34,230all all the whole podcast is alladvertising. Oh, how big had it?88700:55:34,230 --> 00:55:35,970Is it? Good?88800:55:38,400 --> 00:55:42,180Seriously, it squashes a lot ofpodcasters. I mean, one of this,88900:55:42,210 --> 00:55:42,870oh, I'm89000:55:42,870 --> 00:55:45,660too late. I can't get in there.The market saturated?89100:55:45,749 --> 00:55:47,549Yeah. Or they're looking attheir numbers. And they're89200:55:47,549 --> 00:55:50,999comparing their numbers. I'm nogood. I'm no good. Because my89300:55:50,999 --> 00:55:52,859numbers don't compare tosomebody else's like, Well, you89400:55:52,859 --> 00:55:55,679didn't get into podcasting forthe numbers. I'm assuming that89500:55:55,679 --> 00:55:58,289there was something you werepassionate about. But I wanted89600:55:58,289 --> 00:56:00,809to talk like this, get afollowing. But listen89700:56:00,810 --> 00:56:04,260to what everyone's talking aboutgrowing your audience growing89800:56:04,260 --> 00:56:08,640your podcast. That is that isthe hosting companies inherent89900:56:08,640 --> 00:56:11,040message. Everyone's90000:56:11,759 --> 00:56:12,809huh. I don't know if90100:56:13,650 --> 00:56:16,770you've said this at least eighttimes on this show alone.90200:56:17,520 --> 00:56:20,370Growing the audience buildingyour audience. I'm not I'm not90300:56:20,370 --> 00:56:23,520saying it's wrong. I'm justsaying that is a general, it's90400:56:23,520 --> 00:56:26,010like media, we still consider itto be media.90500:56:26,309 --> 00:56:29,369So what a dopamine hit, knowingthat we have a large audience90600:56:29,820 --> 00:56:33,150there, we get a dopamine hitwith a number change.90700:56:33,450 --> 00:56:36,660Yeah, there's no there's nothingwrong with with having a big90800:56:36,660 --> 00:56:39,090audience. It's just that's notyour measurement of success.90900:56:39,120 --> 00:56:42,720It is I don't I want less lessaudience people unsubscribe now.91000:56:44,219 --> 00:56:47,549But that's what I try. You know,I get to speak at conferences91100:56:47,549 --> 00:56:49,349and stuff. And I usually talkabout stats, because it's91200:56:49,349 --> 00:56:51,509something that I know a lottechnically about, but I also91300:56:51,509 --> 00:56:55,529love to encourage people with,don't look at your stats, you91400:56:55,529 --> 00:56:58,109just That's not why you got intopodcasting. That's not how you91500:56:58,109 --> 00:57:00,449measure success. It's somepeople that's the only91600:57:00,449 --> 00:57:02,699measurement that they have forsuccess. And that's just not91700:57:02,699 --> 00:57:03,479that's just not right.91800:57:03,510 --> 00:57:07,650Well, one day, it may even beheli pad is going to show me a91900:57:07,650 --> 00:57:11,580graph. And the stats will behighly interesting, because it92000:57:11,580 --> 00:57:14,970will tell me, when people arelistening, when they're92100:57:14,970 --> 00:57:20,550boosting. It'll give me anaverage of how many sets per92200:57:20,550 --> 00:57:23,820minute. These are things. Theseare statistics that I find92300:57:23,820 --> 00:57:26,670highly interesting. I'd like toknow when people drop off, I'd92400:57:26,670 --> 00:57:29,550like to know what parts peopleliked. I think these are92500:57:29,550 --> 00:57:32,700statistics that focus on thecore. This is something we've92600:57:32,700 --> 00:57:37,710never had in I've been subjectedto Nielsen ratings Arbitron92700:57:37,710 --> 00:57:43,560ratings, Dutch Government ratingsystems, and it's horrible. And92800:57:43,560 --> 00:57:48,120the reason why it's the mostdepressing is because guaranteed92900:57:48,330 --> 00:57:51,660every single time and I've donetelevision shows with, you know,93000:57:51,720 --> 00:57:55,980with 100 people working on it.12 cameras, and we did a live93100:57:55,980 --> 00:58:00,120show, and this was such a kickass. Everyone's like, holy, I'm93200:58:00,120 --> 00:58:03,900getting goosebumps just talkingabout it. Such a great show.93300:58:03,930 --> 00:58:08,790Alright, everybody guaranteedthe next day, crap ratings. It's93400:58:08,850 --> 00:58:11,820all demotivating or it'smotivating for the wrong93500:58:11,820 --> 00:58:16,050reasons. And it doesn't improvethe actual quality of the work93600:58:16,050 --> 00:58:20,670that way. In fact, it makes itworse over time. That's how we93700:58:20,670 --> 00:58:25,050got to 20 minutes of commercialson am radio per hour.93800:58:26,010 --> 00:58:29,220Yeah, yes, like five minutes ofcontent and the 12 minutes of93900:58:29,220 --> 00:58:32,880commercials. It's all radiosalmost unlistenable now, it's94000:58:32,880 --> 00:58:34,200yeah, it's so bad.94100:58:34,530 --> 00:58:37,890Boy, you mentioned streaming. Ican't I can't watch TV anymore.94200:58:37,920 --> 00:58:42,060Because if I travel somewhere,I've got a watch on my laptop. I94300:58:42,060 --> 00:58:43,080just can't watch live94400:58:43,079 --> 00:58:46,349TV. So why would we treatpodcasting any differently?94500:58:46,679 --> 00:58:49,739Well, because we have a fastforward button. Yeah. Okay.94600:58:49,830 --> 00:58:53,280Well, the ad loads going up to Imean, it's just it's it's just94700:58:53,280 --> 00:58:53,490such94800:58:53,490 --> 00:58:59,160a, like a viral load and ad loadviral. Heavy ad load.94900:59:01,860 --> 00:59:04,950On the I mean, going back tosome tech stuff, what,95000:59:05,610 --> 00:59:14,580specifically on the on the blocktag? Tom, what is your feeling95100:59:15,180 --> 00:59:20,550about whether or not the iTunesblock tag and I don't know if95200:59:20,550 --> 00:59:25,410y'all use it on your platform atall, but they, they, we we95300:59:25,410 --> 00:59:28,140started honoring the iTunesblock tag when we're ingesting95400:59:28,140 --> 00:59:31,350feeds at the beginning and thenin the US started and then I95500:59:31,770 --> 00:59:34,800disabled that because you're theiTunes blogtagged. You have the95600:59:34,800 --> 00:59:39,810Google block tag. And I'm like,Okay, what, I don't know what's95700:59:39,810 --> 00:59:43,500what and the documentation forthe iTunes block tag says that95800:59:43,710 --> 00:59:46,710if you put this in here, thenApple will not index the feed.95900:59:48,750 --> 00:59:52,050So of course, they're gonna saythat and I'm gonna say anything96000:59:52,050 --> 00:59:54,690else. But then there's otherhosting companies that seem to96100:59:55,020 --> 00:59:58,530treat it as a general universalblock tag that says I don't want96200:59:58,530 --> 01:00:03,330to show up anywhere. What?What's your opinion on that? And96301:00:03,330 --> 01:00:09,480do you think that the podcastblock tag version should be more96401:00:09,480 --> 01:00:12,930granular that just says thatthat allows you to say, Okay, I96501:00:12,930 --> 01:00:16,080want this this in this directoryto be able to index it, but not96601:00:16,140 --> 01:00:17,160but nowhere else.96701:00:18,539 --> 01:00:23,339So we don't use the iTunes blockat all. Okay?96801:00:24,089 --> 01:00:28,259Well, we do, but we don't useit. So with Apple, you have the96901:00:28,259 --> 01:00:30,539ability to put your podcast inor not like that, they're not97001:00:30,539 --> 01:00:33,149going to discover it, right, youhave to go through a process and97101:00:33,149 --> 01:00:37,109submit to them. So the only timethat we use the block tag is97201:00:37,109 --> 01:00:42,419when somebody says they want outof Apple. And, like, they97301:00:42,419 --> 01:00:46,589struggle to, like remember theirtheir Apple ID login or97401:00:46,589 --> 01:00:48,689something, and they can't getinto the UI anymore to get97501:00:48,689 --> 01:00:52,439themselves out. So we canmanually wrap it in there. And97601:00:52,469 --> 01:00:55,619the other time we use it is ifwe say like blocked from all97701:00:55,919 --> 01:00:58,589search engines, then we don'tuse the apple block, we used to97801:00:58,589 --> 01:01:00,539use the Google block, which Iguess they don't respect97901:01:00,539 --> 01:01:03,389anymore, that we might need tochange that code. But if they98001:01:03,389 --> 01:01:06,689don't want their podcastdiscovered, like if you want to98101:01:06,689 --> 01:01:08,489go to Google and just type inthe name of their podcast, and98201:01:08,489 --> 01:01:11,219they don't want to show up inthe search results, we use the98301:01:11,219 --> 01:01:14,429block tag in the RSS feed, wealso, you know, shut off their98401:01:14,429 --> 01:01:17,009Buzzsprout public page and weput a noindex nofollow. So98501:01:17,039 --> 01:01:19,589hopefully search engines respectthat and don't pick it up. But98601:01:19,589 --> 01:01:22,259that's been our only use forthose two tags,98701:01:23,280 --> 01:01:27,780we'll see that that actuallymakes it that actually makes it98801:01:27,780 --> 01:01:33,420a little bit more confusing.Because there it may see that,98901:01:33,510 --> 01:01:35,730that's where I can't, I don'tknow where to fall down. Because99001:01:35,760 --> 01:01:40,350I iTunes block tag really,really feels like an apple only99101:01:40,350 --> 01:01:44,460thing. But I know for a factthat that a lot of people are99201:01:44,460 --> 01:01:50,190using it as a general indicator.And, and I just, I think this is99301:01:50,190 --> 01:01:53,820a, this is a perfect example ofsomething that needs to be in99401:01:53,820 --> 01:01:56,760the podcast namespace and notpart of iTunes. Because we can99501:01:56,760 --> 01:02:01,290put the pot, we can make apodcast blog tag, and say this99601:02:01,320 --> 01:02:07,020in make it better, make it workmore granular and make it make a99701:02:07,020 --> 01:02:09,540better. I just think we make abetter tag.99801:02:09,690 --> 01:02:12,030Right? And there's a model forthis. There's the robot dot txt99901:02:12,030 --> 01:02:17,190file model. Yeah, yeah, you cansay, you know, maybe block is100001:02:17,190 --> 01:02:18,870the wrong way to think about it.Maybe it's like, what do we100101:02:18,870 --> 01:02:23,370allow? And reverse our verse tothinking? Yeah, and so I would100201:02:23,430 --> 01:02:25,980think that we'd approach it fromallow all which means any100301:02:25,980 --> 01:02:28,200directory that comes upon thisRSS feed, you find that you want100401:02:28,200 --> 01:02:32,640to index it, have at it, or weget specific. And we say, you100501:02:32,640 --> 01:02:35,040know, we want to be in this,this, this, this and this, and100601:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,140we're specific. And then wemight say, you know, disallow,100701:02:37,140 --> 01:02:39,600we're specifically saying we donot want to be in Spotify. So100801:02:39,600 --> 01:02:42,090Spotify bot comes upon thisfeed, you do not have permission100901:02:42,090 --> 01:02:42,660to call Yeah,101001:02:42,659 --> 01:02:46,499like a Spotify is gonna honorthat. Well, do they?101101:02:47,460 --> 01:02:50,130I don't know. I mean, they theydon't now.101201:02:50,640 --> 01:02:54,480Yeah. Now, it's one of the oneof our most frequent support101301:02:54,480 --> 01:02:57,540requests is being removed fromSpotify. If they supported a101401:02:57,540 --> 01:03:01,410block tag, it would actuallyreduce support on both sides.101501:03:01,559 --> 01:03:04,289Yeah. Because there's not aneasy way for us through the API101601:03:04,289 --> 01:03:08,279to remove a show. We have toemail him right now. We should101701:03:08,279 --> 01:03:11,279so it would be nice to have anallow or disallow Island. I101801:03:11,279 --> 01:03:11,699would love101901:03:11,699 --> 01:03:15,599to try that. Because the noagenda show feed keeps getting102001:03:15,599 --> 01:03:21,509put back on the Spotify. It'sall pirated, of course. So it102101:03:21,509 --> 01:03:25,949would be interesting to try itwith the with iTunes block tag.102201:03:26,549 --> 01:03:29,189I don't think I don't think Idon't think they they honor it.102301:03:29,969 --> 01:03:34,049We haven't adopted any tags, Ireally haven't engaged much on102401:03:34,049 --> 01:03:38,189any of the tags that involve thename. Like it just it seems like102501:03:38,189 --> 01:03:41,939it's a hard tag to build, right?Because Spotify gets bought out102601:03:41,939 --> 01:03:47,129by stuck ease and they changetheir name to duckies listener102701:03:47,129 --> 01:03:50,879app. Like I just don't likeseeing that in the spec.102801:03:51,029 --> 01:03:53,969Whenever there's names of appsand stuff like that, but I don't102901:03:53,969 --> 01:03:56,669know what that's like a sluglist type thing. Yeah, that slug103001:03:56,669 --> 01:03:59,639list, I push back on it all thetime because I just hate the103101:03:59,639 --> 01:04:03,659idea of codifying the name of aproduct knowing that these103201:04:03,659 --> 01:04:05,819products change names. I mean,we already see with iTunes,103301:04:05,909 --> 01:04:09,239Apple has moved straight awayfrom iTunes, they you know, got103401:04:09,239 --> 01:04:11,249get us whenever we use iTunesanywhere the best103501:04:11,250 --> 01:04:14,520marketing company in the worldcouldn't out market out of that.103601:04:14,820 --> 01:04:15,390Yeah,103701:04:15,480 --> 01:04:18,750yeah. And so that's, that's mychallenge. Whenever I look at103801:04:18,750 --> 01:04:21,630the tags that involve those,those app slugs, but it doesn't103901:04:21,630 --> 01:04:24,840mean that it doesn't. I like theway Kevin said about a robot104001:04:24,990 --> 01:04:27,870robot txt file, maybe there'ssome type of reference file that104101:04:27,870 --> 01:04:31,740we can go to where we use domainnames or something that is, um,104201:04:32,790 --> 01:04:38,490you know, more objective, notnot a slug list that we create.104301:04:39,300 --> 01:04:41,940Like, yeah, like that. We needto do that. I'm going to get104401:04:41,940 --> 01:04:45,240back on on that for Phase Five,because I think it's, it's it's104501:04:45,240 --> 01:04:47,700important to come up a couple oftimes lately and it's kind of104601:04:47,700 --> 01:04:52,110been an annoyance. And it's ledto this to this very blatant,104701:04:52,380 --> 01:04:56,190or, excuse me, very obviousshortfall here. So we need to we104801:04:56,190 --> 01:04:56,880need to fix that.104901:04:57,090 --> 01:04:59,520Yeah, we could definitely workon that. That's a great tag to105001:04:59,520 --> 01:05:01,530work on because Just nonbreaking, it's not gonna break105101:05:01,530 --> 01:05:05,880anything for us to put that outthere. Um, and so that's105201:05:05,880 --> 01:05:07,440definitely something we couldwork together.105301:05:07,889 --> 01:05:14,879Yeah. Okay, cool. That as far asthe the other thing that the bus105401:05:14,879 --> 01:05:17,069route was super instrumental inat the very beginning was105501:05:17,069 --> 01:05:25,769piping, and I was just just somenumbers here 263,941 feeds now105601:05:25,799 --> 01:05:30,719are deprioritized because of podpain. So we do not meet D105701:05:30,719 --> 01:05:34,439prioritizing, meaning we are notactively pulling them anymore.105801:05:34,769 --> 01:05:38,099We're just getting pod painsignals and that's how we know.105901:05:38,249 --> 01:05:41,729So that's an eighth of the ofthe universe. It's an eight to106001:05:41,729 --> 01:05:44,819the universe. It's pretty good.It's not bad out of the gate for106101:05:44,819 --> 01:05:51,269some wonky crap Brian puttogether. Just kidding. It's106201:05:51,269 --> 01:05:53,219obviously a runaway success.106301:05:54,210 --> 01:05:58,620That's gonna be the subtitle ofBrian's autobiography. Brian,106401:05:58,950 --> 01:06:02,370when he's dead, London, wonky,wonky crap. And106501:06:02,370 --> 01:06:09,150he's basically running a moneychanging machine, isn't he? I106601:06:09,150 --> 01:06:13,710don't know what he's doing. Ilove him for it. Because he's106701:06:13,710 --> 01:06:15,360Adam, if Adam could code106801:06:17,310 --> 01:06:23,790like, what have you done? Yes.Yeah. Yeah. 263,941 phase.106901:06:23,790 --> 01:06:27,060That's a lot. That is a lot ofstuff that107001:06:27,059 --> 01:06:31,049we internet. Thank you. Hey, theinternet. Thanks. We107101:06:31,050 --> 01:06:34,380need we need to put a number outwe need to put a carbon number107201:06:34,380 --> 01:06:38,730on it. Come on boys, we need tocalculate can we do number? Can107301:06:38,730 --> 01:06:41,550we Yeah, can we do like a backof the envelope? Well, you have107401:06:41,550 --> 01:06:42,960the data, right? You have someof107501:06:42,960 --> 01:06:45,990it, I can tell you how much wepay per gigabyte of bandwidth.107601:06:45,990 --> 01:06:51,510And we get back into how manygigabytes typical RSS feed back107701:06:51,510 --> 01:06:52,020into Number107801:06:52,079 --> 01:06:54,659Have you also have to take inthe electricity. That's I want107901:06:54,659 --> 01:06:56,579to get it all the way to theclimate change.108001:06:57,059 --> 01:06:59,879I wanted the issue to bemeasured in cow farts, you know?108101:07:00,089 --> 01:07:00,779Yes.108201:07:00,960 --> 01:07:03,510Yes. Yes. Excellent, Dave.108301:07:04,679 --> 01:07:07,979And the debt it was so and wehave after the latest round of108401:07:07,979 --> 01:07:13,619purging, we have 700 737,946Dead feet now wanted to say the108501:07:13,619 --> 01:07:17,309difference between dead anddeprioritize because that was108601:07:17,309 --> 01:07:24,419confusion on the mastodon todaywith dead means the feed is is108701:07:25,379 --> 01:07:33,269is not a quality listable thing.So like, we talked about this108801:07:33,269 --> 01:07:36,299before, when we market feeddead, it disappears. It's like108901:07:36,299 --> 01:07:39,269it doesn't even exist anymore.And that's because it's either a109001:07:39,269 --> 01:07:44,339duplicate of some otherlegitimate feed, or it's just109101:07:44,369 --> 01:07:49,439complete garbage. So meaning ithas one episode that's 15109201:07:49,439 --> 01:07:53,699seconds long of somebody sayingpoop. So that that's what that109301:07:53,699 --> 01:07:58,529is the D prioritization happenswhen? And this was to answer109401:07:58,529 --> 01:08:02,759Steven bass question today. Dprioritizing means that we set109501:08:02,759 --> 01:08:07,529the the aggregator priority forthat feed to negative one,109601:08:07,589 --> 01:08:14,669meaning don't poll it. Thathappens based on the host. So109701:08:14,729 --> 01:08:20,429anything, anything from bus fromfeeds, buzzsprout.com is is all109801:08:20,459 --> 01:08:23,489automatically set upon ingestionto a negative one priority so109901:08:23,489 --> 01:08:27,629that we don't pull it. It's notthat we saw it pod ping once and110001:08:27,629 --> 01:08:31,259then D prioritized. It. That'snot how it works. It's based110101:08:31,259 --> 01:08:35,159only on people that we know, onhosting company URLs that we110201:08:35,159 --> 01:08:39,539know are pod ping enablers thatare enabled.110301:08:40,800 --> 01:08:46,350I love that to Steven B's.Sovereign feeds. Has a pod ping110401:08:46,350 --> 01:08:49,260thing in there. Have you seenthat? Yeah, yeah, we set him up.110501:08:49,260 --> 01:08:52,200Yeah. But it's super cool.Because in order so you publish110601:08:52,200 --> 01:08:55,890your feed, and then you have tosolve a puzzle, which is like110701:08:55,890 --> 01:09:02,460nine plus four plus two. Andthen it pings it. Yeah, I guess110801:09:02,460 --> 01:09:05,220that's so it can't be spammed orsomething. You have to you have110901:09:05,220 --> 01:09:09,690to come up with a you have toanswer the CAPTCHA. Abuse. Yeah.111001:09:09,690 --> 01:09:11,340But it's really cool. It works.111101:09:11,760 --> 01:09:14,070Well, one thing Steven has beenlooking for, and I don't know if111201:09:14,070 --> 01:09:17,070you can speak to this, Tom, ishe's been, you know, he's111301:09:17,100 --> 01:09:19,320created this thing calledSovereign phase where it's like111401:09:19,320 --> 01:09:23,370a, it's a fee generator, whereyou can host a create your own111501:09:23,640 --> 01:09:28,800your own feed, and but he, heneeds he needs a host on the111601:09:28,800 --> 01:09:33,840backend to be able to, like,integrate with so that his his111701:09:34,470 --> 01:09:39,960software can sort of be a thirdparty and use a host API to111801:09:39,960 --> 01:09:42,810upload the audio and save thefeed somewhere. Is that111901:09:42,810 --> 01:09:46,680something that because doesbreast bass API allow that or?112001:09:47,100 --> 01:09:47,490No,112101:09:47,520 --> 01:09:51,990no. I mean, you could, you coulddo it, but you'd be paying for112201:09:51,990 --> 01:09:53,700something that you wouldn't beusing because you're gonna pay112301:09:53,700 --> 01:09:55,560for the hosting. Yeah,112401:09:55,650 --> 01:09:57,960I don't think No, I don't thinkthe paying is the part is the112501:09:57,960 --> 01:09:59,880problem. I think he just needsthe tech you know,112601:10:00,900 --> 01:10:04,290Yeah, I mean, our API set up sothat you can push episodes to us112701:10:04,290 --> 01:10:06,480through the API. And then youcan get back a URL for those.112801:10:06,540 --> 01:10:08,340And if he doesn't want to useour feed, he wants to generate112901:10:08,340 --> 01:10:09,870his own feed. You could do that.113001:10:10,470 --> 01:10:12,750Yeah, that's I think that'sreally what it's about. It's not113101:10:12,750 --> 01:10:13,050about113201:10:13,080 --> 01:10:15,660that. Yeah. Anybody could dothat with the engine.113301:10:16,140 --> 01:10:18,900But then, and he can alsopublish the feed to your113401:10:18,900 --> 01:10:19,470hosting.113501:10:20,670 --> 01:10:23,730No, we wouldn't. We just hostright, we'd host our feed, which113601:10:23,730 --> 01:10:24,300he wouldn't want.113701:10:24,330 --> 01:10:27,540Right? Yeah. Right. That's theproblem. Yeah. He's113801:10:27,780 --> 01:10:30,600trying to create the RSS. Andthen ice113901:10:30,840 --> 01:10:34,650API is trying to find a partnerwho's already established who114001:10:34,650 --> 01:10:40,020can process customers, I guess.I guess, in a way, like we're114101:10:40,020 --> 01:10:45,000the WordPress plugin with thewhatever that ties into, to tie114201:10:45,000 --> 01:10:48,240into blueberry, like a powerpress type power. Yeah. And so114301:10:48,240 --> 01:10:50,040that that kind of access he'slooking for?114401:10:50,910 --> 01:10:53,160Yeah, we're just like, I'm gonnagive you because he, he wants to114501:10:53,160 --> 01:10:55,590be able to do custom stuff inthe feed. So he just wants to114601:10:55,590 --> 01:10:58,350say, hey, here's the here's thefeed, can you can you publish114701:10:58,350 --> 01:11:01,680this for hosted for me? And thenI'm just gonna give it to you114801:11:01,680 --> 01:11:06,510fully formed? And then soundlike he'll have that? No, no,114901:11:06,630 --> 01:11:09,390but I mean, I don't know what hefeels about Amazon or something.115001:11:09,390 --> 01:11:10,110But um, yeah. So115101:11:10,980 --> 01:11:14,070for Dropbox, even Dropbox has apretty sophisticated API, I saw115201:11:14,070 --> 01:11:15,060some people are building115301:11:15,389 --> 01:11:18,749drop boxes. And that's a veryinteresting idea to do it that115401:11:18,749 --> 01:11:21,299way. I've seen a lot ofinteresting projects work115501:11:21,869 --> 01:11:22,979through Dropbox. Yeah. I115601:11:22,979 --> 01:11:24,779don't know, if they support byterange requests and stuff. I115701:11:24,779 --> 01:11:27,509don't know if they'd be fullypodcasting compatible. But like115801:11:27,509 --> 01:11:28,649Amazon CloudFront, does.115901:11:29,970 --> 01:11:34,050That's true. What? What have wemissed? I mean, like, you know,116001:11:34,050 --> 01:11:38,760y'all, you've been here sincethe beginning, what? What is, is116101:11:38,760 --> 01:11:43,260there? Is there a blind spot inthe, in the namespace or the,116201:11:44,130 --> 01:11:48,450the Poquoson, 2.0 thing thatwe're trying to do that we're116301:11:48,450 --> 01:11:50,490just not seeing? I think116401:11:50,490 --> 01:11:53,370we touched on the big ones. Ilike the idea of making sure116501:11:53,370 --> 01:11:56,670that we have a compatible tagfor all of the iTunes tags.116601:11:57,060 --> 01:12:01,410But in 10 years, we shouldn'texpect to see iTunes anywhere in116701:12:01,410 --> 01:12:05,700our RSS feeds. Right. And wetalked about that, Dave, early116801:12:05,700 --> 01:12:07,470on, when we were doing thenamespace, we were saying, Hey,116901:12:07,470 --> 01:12:10,500don't go propose all the iTunestags, like, we know that that's117001:12:10,500 --> 01:12:13,770something that we want to do.But let's not start there. Like,117101:12:13,800 --> 01:12:16,380that's not gonna, that's notgoing to create innovation. It117201:12:16,380 --> 01:12:18,990is something that at some pointwe should do. But it's117301:12:18,990 --> 01:12:21,090essentially going to justincrease the size of our RSS117401:12:21,090 --> 01:12:25,140feeds, it could create more workfor our podcasting apps. But at117501:12:25,140 --> 01:12:27,540some point, we're going to haveto swallow it, we're going to117601:12:27,540 --> 01:12:28,260have to do that.117701:12:28,620 --> 01:12:31,350Right. I like the idea of makingsure we're cleaning out the117801:12:31,350 --> 01:12:34,980legacy namespaces. Like there'sno no more reason to carry them117901:12:34,980 --> 01:12:35,370forward.118001:12:35,970 --> 01:12:40,710Have you guys been following thecross app comments? Development?118101:12:41,610 --> 01:12:43,680Yeah, that's something that I'mpretty excited about. I've118201:12:43,680 --> 01:12:44,910talked with Dave about118301:12:46,650 --> 01:12:50,580it, he activity pub. So there'sbeen a lot of,118401:12:50,910 --> 01:12:54,570I got to stop again, I got tostop again. Holy crap. It's like118501:12:54,570 --> 01:12:58,620a beautiful movie. I'm watchingone that's in Korean. So I don't118601:12:58,620 --> 01:13:01,830understand what they're saying.But I like all the actors,118701:13:01,950 --> 01:13:04,350they're really interesting. Ilike how they interact. And I118801:13:04,350 --> 01:13:06,960think I see what's going tohappen. So I'm very, very118901:13:06,960 --> 01:13:08,790pleased, it's really exciting towatch119001:13:09,660 --> 01:13:14,760that activity pub stuff is, hastaken a really big leap over the119101:13:14,760 --> 01:13:18,330last really two to three weeks,when people have gotten in there119201:13:18,330 --> 01:13:21,780rolled their sleeves up, gottendirty with with publishing their119301:13:21,780 --> 01:13:27,660research. Because this stuff,you can you can conceptualize119401:13:27,660 --> 01:13:31,470how it works. But when youactually get to write code, you119501:13:31,470 --> 01:13:35,700really need more than just avision, or an or a conceptual119601:13:35,700 --> 01:13:39,300framework, you need actual nutsand bolts details of the way the119701:13:39,300 --> 01:13:44,700protocol functions. And thedifficult reality with activity119801:13:44,700 --> 01:13:48,930Pub is that they don't, theimplementations in the real119901:13:48,930 --> 01:13:52,890world of it don't all operatethe same way. And you find that120001:13:52,890 --> 01:13:55,830out pretty quick when you startpoking around at the API's120101:13:55,830 --> 01:13:58,830within Mastodon and Roma inthese different these different120201:13:59,040 --> 01:14:06,120platforms. So the new work thatthat John Spurlock has done and120301:14:06,120 --> 01:14:11,940then the research recently, byGail, May, they they really took120401:14:12,300 --> 01:14:16,800the framework that Alex gateskind of visualized, and in and120501:14:16,800 --> 01:14:19,410just did a bunch of research andpublished it in document form.120601:14:19,410 --> 01:14:23,640So it's, and then John atcreated some apps and NPM120701:14:23,640 --> 01:14:27,870modules for fleshing it out tomake it easier for the apps to120801:14:27,870 --> 01:14:30,540pick up and run with and they'rejust going through that funnel120901:14:30,870 --> 01:14:33,300or not, I'm not gonna say finalbut they're going through that121001:14:33,480 --> 01:14:38,730heartache right now of trying toget this some some baseline MVP121101:14:38,730 --> 01:14:43,740type software up and running. SoI think I think within the next121201:14:44,460 --> 01:14:46,950I really think within the nextcouple of months to three months121301:14:46,950 --> 01:14:51,390we're going to have somethingthat is like usable where you121401:14:51,900 --> 01:14:56,370can say okay, go do this, andyour app will show calm.121501:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,510Will it take involvement fromhosting companies or Can it or121601:15:00,510 --> 01:15:01,050should it?121701:15:01,710 --> 01:15:05,280Well see, that's the questionreally, I think I think it121801:15:05,280 --> 01:15:06,270really should to be,121901:15:06,720 --> 01:15:10,230well think of it think of itthis way. But Buzzsprout when122001:15:10,260 --> 01:15:15,930when we are able to pull thatinto our platform, we host every122101:15:15,930 --> 01:15:20,190one of our podcasts as website.So we'll be able to launch the122201:15:20,190 --> 01:15:23,520comments on all of theirwebsites when we do them. So I122301:15:23,520 --> 01:15:26,670think it'll be it's definitelysomething that we're talking122401:15:26,670 --> 01:15:29,970about, and it's something that Ithink would really benefit our122501:15:29,970 --> 01:15:30,750podcasters122601:15:30,930 --> 01:15:35,700it's already pretty sexy though,man when when I publish every122701:15:35,700 --> 01:15:39,990show I do now at least he has acomment thread. And and Dave,122801:15:39,990 --> 01:15:42,840you posted a screenshot Oh,there it is on pod verse and122901:15:42,840 --> 01:15:44,970like, that's already prettycool. Just to see that123001:15:44,970 --> 01:15:45,480happening.123101:15:45,989 --> 01:15:48,809Have you have you seen that?Have you guys seen that in123201:15:48,809 --> 01:15:53,489action? I have not. I'm so ifyou go if you go to pod verse,123301:15:53,699 --> 01:15:57,539and then just, I mean, if youjust go to pod verse.fm and look123401:15:57,629 --> 01:16:03,779and search for podcasting 2.0and then go in then just click123501:16:03,779 --> 01:16:07,559on Like when the most recentepisodes, you'll see the123601:16:07,559 --> 01:16:11,309activity pub comments there. Soevery time somebody, every time123701:16:11,309 --> 01:16:15,989we post a show a post anepisode, I do a post on podcast,123801:16:15,989 --> 01:16:19,709index dot social, and I just saythe name of the episode, or the123901:16:19,709 --> 01:16:23,819episode number, and this is thecomments thread. And then Adam124001:16:23,819 --> 01:16:27,899takes the URL for that activitypub post, and puts it into the124101:16:27,899 --> 01:16:31,349social interact tag in the fitin our feed. And then124201:16:31,349 --> 01:16:36,449immediately pod verse and podfriend to put I think Martin has124301:16:36,449 --> 01:16:38,639disabled it for now. He's goingto bring it back because he's124401:16:38,639 --> 01:16:41,249recoding. And I believe Oh, it'sworking on the web version.124501:16:41,789 --> 01:16:46,679Okay, cool. Well, that the podfriend and pod verse, both show124601:16:46,709 --> 01:16:52,319accont the all those comments inthere. So if if you go and reply124701:16:52,319 --> 01:16:55,709to it on podcast, index, social,social or any other Mastodon124801:16:55,709 --> 01:16:59,459instance, or Pleroma, it willshow up in pod verse124901:16:59,489 --> 01:17:00,959automatically as a reply.125001:17:00,989 --> 01:17:05,999And what's really trippy is thatbecause I do the same thing I do125101:17:05,999 --> 01:17:12,239the comment thread. Before werecord it's like the comments125201:17:12,239 --> 01:17:16,259are from the future. The minutethe episode is there, like shit,125301:17:16,259 --> 01:17:17,879there's already comments on thisthing.125401:17:18,120 --> 01:17:22,650Yeah. It's it's fully formed,but it's like a it's like that.125501:17:22,680 --> 01:17:25,410That's every night live. WhereWill Ferrell was born as an125601:17:25,410 --> 01:17:27,030affiliate as an adult. Like,125701:17:27,030 --> 01:17:30,240yeah, but it also it makes itfeel like that episodes alive125801:17:30,240 --> 01:17:34,020already. Like, okay, oh, that'sjust people commenting. Yeah,125901:17:34,380 --> 01:17:34,590yeah,126001:17:34,590 --> 01:17:35,610it's cuz psychological126101:17:35,610 --> 01:17:37,140psychologically. Veryinteresting.126201:17:37,800 --> 01:17:40,110Yeah. And it's a great way tointeract. One of the things126301:17:40,110 --> 01:17:42,810about podcasting, that's, that'sawesome is you feel this126401:17:42,810 --> 01:17:46,200connection with the podcaster.And so this is yet another way126501:17:46,200 --> 01:17:47,520to connect with the podcaster.126601:17:48,570 --> 01:17:52,590Yeah, it would be so how cool isit to have the Buzzsprout126701:17:52,590 --> 01:17:56,250podcast page for that podcast?With all these comments? And126801:17:56,250 --> 01:17:59,970then you know that it's going toshow up the exact same way in126901:18:00,000 --> 01:18:05,580every single app. Right? That'scool. Yeah, I think we're gonna127001:18:05,610 --> 01:18:09,210knock behind some wall, right?It's not behind some wall where127101:18:09,210 --> 01:18:11,520I have to download an app to beable to see the comments if I'm127201:18:11,520 --> 01:18:14,280a podcaster. I don't have to go,you know, download all these127301:18:14,280 --> 01:18:16,200different apps to go see whatpeople are saying about my127401:18:16,200 --> 01:18:17,250podcast. Yeah. Which127501:18:17,250 --> 01:18:21,540has always been the default forsome stupid reason. Yeah, and127601:18:21,540 --> 01:18:25,470the most common place right nowfor podcast. reviews and127701:18:25,470 --> 01:18:28,290recommendations to come throughis Apple podcasts. And there's127801:18:28,290 --> 01:18:31,920it's such a terrible brokensystem. I don't know, the full127901:18:31,950 --> 01:18:35,040like delay or process that, likevetting process that those128001:18:35,040 --> 01:18:37,680things go through before theyget published. But it is a very128101:18:37,680 --> 01:18:40,920common support request for usget that says, you know, I just128201:18:40,920 --> 01:18:43,350launched my podcast, my youknow, my friend told me, they128301:18:43,350 --> 01:18:45,600listened to it, and then left mewriting a review. It's not128401:18:45,600 --> 01:18:49,620showing up and yeah, you got togive it a week. Like it's just128501:18:49,620 --> 01:18:50,070so128601:18:51,420 --> 01:18:54,060Yeah, whenever we say comments,the first thing that people128701:18:54,060 --> 01:18:56,220always say, Well, we haveratings and reviews, that's what128801:18:56,220 --> 01:18:59,730everyone jumps up and says, andI was thinking about it, just128901:18:59,730 --> 01:19:05,160like the at the item level. Canwe also have a channel level129001:19:05,220 --> 01:19:09,690thread, which then by defaultbecomes just like every other129101:19:09,690 --> 01:19:10,680review thread?129201:19:11,610 --> 01:19:12,480I don't see why not.129301:19:12,480 --> 01:19:16,080I mean, though, isn't thatexactly what a review is? It's a129401:19:16,080 --> 01:19:20,760thread of people's and Okay, Ithink you can I don't know this.129501:19:20,790 --> 01:19:24,690There's no maybe not a starrating thing Viet in activity129601:19:24,690 --> 01:19:27,510pub. But it seems like that's achannel level and element. And129701:19:27,510 --> 01:19:31,500it's just a whole list of peoplesay and I love it. I hate it.129801:19:31,500 --> 01:19:33,420That's what it is reviews. Yep.129901:19:34,500 --> 01:19:37,590Not it doesn't seem very specialto me. And it can show up130001:19:37,590 --> 01:19:38,130everywhere.130101:19:38,370 --> 01:19:42,810Yes. And that can be specifiedas the the channel level which130201:19:42,840 --> 01:19:47,820any app could then translate tothese reviews. Yeah. solves.130301:19:47,850 --> 01:19:51,210Okay. Let's be great, guys.Yeah.130401:19:52,560 --> 01:19:53,460We have our work cut out for us.130501:19:54,540 --> 01:19:57,630I wanted to follow up onsomething. I don't think I did130601:19:57,630 --> 01:20:01,290this on the last day. Didn't wehave a Because because you130701:20:01,290 --> 01:20:04,740brought it up on the show,someone sent a real nasty email130801:20:04,740 --> 01:20:08,790to you about their podcast notbeing listed properly130901:20:09,329 --> 01:20:12,209on the index is a bad redirect.Yeah.131001:20:12,929 --> 01:20:16,019Did you see that? I, I went backat him? And he replied,131101:20:16,469 --> 01:20:18,179yeah. And he was any apologize,131201:20:18,209 --> 01:20:20,999I think I think I should,because he was really, really131301:20:20,999 --> 01:20:24,719rude about you stupid company,you should be paying me to do131401:20:24,719 --> 01:20:28,799it. And wow, no, no, great. Butwhat's interesting is I've131501:20:28,799 --> 01:20:30,869learned over time that whenpeople do this, there's131601:20:30,869 --> 01:20:33,209something else going on. So whenI said, Hey, man, you know, I131701:20:33,209 --> 01:20:36,089don't think you understand we'redoing. And I just I think,131801:20:36,119 --> 01:20:38,759because we did that after readhis apology, I would like to131901:20:38,759 --> 01:20:41,519apologize for my last email toyou and your company, I was132001:20:41,519 --> 01:20:44,939wrong for sending such an emaillike that. I was angry at all132101:20:44,939 --> 01:20:47,969the podcast directories likeGoogle, Apple, and so on. So I132201:20:47,969 --> 01:20:51,629lumped everyone together. Whatwas happening with the other132301:20:51,629 --> 01:20:54,059companies, they had my show anda new show on their platform132401:20:54,059 --> 01:20:58,169related to duplicate show andthey deleted the wrong one. I'm132501:20:58,169 --> 01:21:01,289still new at podcasting. I'monly going into my second year132601:21:01,289 --> 01:21:03,809and stuff makes me worried ofwhat's happening. Again, I'm132701:21:03,809 --> 01:21:05,489sorry, for my last email,shouldn't have lumped your132801:21:05,489 --> 01:21:08,189company without directories.hope you can forgive me. Of132901:21:08,189 --> 01:21:11,429course, we forgive him. But ittells you something. It tells133001:21:11,429 --> 01:21:16,409you something. Those guys aremessed up. And and I don't think133101:21:16,409 --> 01:21:17,639they're doing anything about it.133201:21:18,990 --> 01:21:21,480Yes, we see that in our support.Yeah.133301:21:22,050 --> 01:21:24,570This sounds like a support emailthat you guys would receive.133401:21:24,570 --> 01:21:25,080Exactly.133501:21:25,769 --> 01:21:28,919We our support team isincredible. And they are way133601:21:28,919 --> 01:21:32,009more patient than I am. Right.Like I would I wouldn't respond133701:21:32,009 --> 01:21:32,879well to you.133801:21:33,750 --> 01:21:35,760You're fired as a customer?Yeah, no,133901:21:36,210 --> 01:21:40,710I've done it. And so I thinkit's hard to get in their mind134001:21:40,710 --> 01:21:43,530that they're just so frustrated,because they just assume you're134101:21:43,530 --> 01:21:45,600like Google, they're justscreaming into the wind,134201:21:45,600 --> 01:21:49,350nobody's listening, right? Like,like Kevin was talking about134301:21:49,350 --> 01:21:52,320when they write into Buzzsprout.And they say, you know, somebody134401:21:52,320 --> 01:21:54,480told me, they left a review, andit's still not showing, they134501:21:54,480 --> 01:21:57,780write in a bus problem, becausewe write back to them. They134601:21:57,780 --> 01:22:00,990don't hear back, they just findthemselves, you know, screaming134701:22:00,990 --> 01:22:01,440into the wind.134801:22:02,190 --> 01:22:05,790And they don't understand. Theydon't understand all the crap134901:22:05,850 --> 01:22:10,650that you have to deal with likea like Alberto over RSS comm. He135001:22:10,650 --> 01:22:14,100had to write an entire machinelearning system to get rid of135101:22:14,100 --> 01:22:17,970some of this one bot that keptsigning up for free podcast and135201:22:17,970 --> 01:22:21,510putting like porn images in itover and over and over. Like,135301:22:21,570 --> 01:22:25,680there's so much garbage that youhave to get the hosting company135401:22:25,680 --> 01:22:29,640and the directories are thefilter for Yeah, like it's, it's135501:22:29,640 --> 01:22:30,390insane.135601:22:31,290 --> 01:22:38,130Which is why we should have weshould attack. Anchor, we need135701:22:38,130 --> 01:22:40,920to enter it, we need to enterit. We need to hoist the Jolly135801:22:40,920 --> 01:22:44,010Roger. I got it. I got a notefrom someone the other day and135901:22:44,010 --> 01:22:47,040he said because he said I'dreally want to get on136001:22:47,070 --> 01:22:50,910podcasting. 2.0 Because I startoff with anchor. And it's like136101:22:50,940 --> 01:22:53,940it's come there's no support.There's nothing happening is136201:22:53,940 --> 01:22:57,240really weird that place overthere. Just but then once I got136301:22:57,240 --> 01:23:01,620some downloads, all of a suddenSpotify contacted me. Yeah, so136401:23:01,620 --> 01:23:03,960that's what they're using itfor. They're just looking at136501:23:03,960 --> 01:23:07,890anything that pops a little bitabove the needle, and then they136601:23:07,890 --> 01:23:12,330contact you. Oh, okay. It's afarm team. It's I think it's not136701:23:12,330 --> 01:23:16,080a farm. It's more like a Petridish of bacteria.136801:23:18,210 --> 01:23:20,940Is the is the coop incubator.Exactly.136901:23:22,740 --> 01:23:31,020Yeah. It's fine. No, it's notfar from a fun product that was137001:23:31,020 --> 01:23:31,770created to137101:23:31,770 --> 01:23:32,430respect all137201:23:32,430 --> 01:23:33,600of our competitors137301:23:36,480 --> 01:23:38,820Shall we thanks some people youguys want to hang around for137401:23:38,820 --> 01:23:41,550this and listen to some boostergrams and stuff.137501:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,690Sure. They want to add Kevinwant the he must hang around for137601:23:45,690 --> 01:23:49,110this because he's now the ownerof a value for value enabled137701:23:49,110 --> 01:23:51,390show and he needs to beinstructed on how the process137801:23:51,390 --> 01:23:51,870works.137901:23:51,960 --> 01:23:55,110Got it? Ah, yes. Okay, so he'staking my attention here. You're138001:23:55,110 --> 01:23:55,530going138101:23:55,530 --> 01:23:58,170to do a live cast, you'll beable to talk about Buddha138201:23:58,170 --> 01:23:59,970Gramsci or Siva, yes, yes.138301:24:01,590 --> 01:24:04,920This podcast, as you may havefigured out his value for value,138401:24:05,160 --> 01:24:08,760which means the only way itcontinues and it represents of138501:24:08,760 --> 01:24:11,640course, the work of podcasting2.0. In general, all the138601:24:11,640 --> 01:24:16,230servers, the liquidity on thenode, is everything is financed138701:24:16,230 --> 01:24:19,950through the support of thepeople who find any value in it138801:24:19,950 --> 01:24:23,100that can be developers, it'soften listeners, it's just138901:24:23,100 --> 01:24:26,850people who want things to wantto see things succeed. And you139001:24:26,850 --> 01:24:30,900can support us in a number ofways. A great way still still139101:24:30,900 --> 01:24:33,450valid as you fill out funcoupons. If you go to podcast139201:24:33,450 --> 01:24:37,500index.org. Go down to the bottomthere's a red donate button, you139301:24:37,500 --> 01:24:40,200can support us through Pay Paland all the options they have or139401:24:40,200 --> 01:24:43,440of course, through a modernpodcast app at new podcast apps139501:24:43,470 --> 01:24:46,710comm where you can stream SATsto as value for value in real139601:24:46,710 --> 01:24:50,670time. It's a dopamine circuitthat we've created. I've just139701:24:50,670 --> 01:24:54,840learned where the because of thethe communications going back139801:24:54,840 --> 01:24:57,390and forth, everyone gets alittle dopamine hit on each139901:24:57,390 --> 01:25:01,920circle of it. And again, a newpodcast saps.com So let's thank140001:25:01,950 --> 01:25:05,430some of our let's thank all ofour supporters for this week140101:25:05,430 --> 01:25:05,760Dave.140201:25:07,080 --> 01:25:12,360We have a grand total of onePayPal donation this week, so is140301:25:12,360 --> 01:25:14,220that I think we met during thatsad140401:25:14,220 --> 01:25:16,140puppy is what happened.140501:25:17,160 --> 01:25:18,480Evidently we did some okay140601:25:18,479 --> 01:25:23,879this is a this is anotherimportant value for value moment140701:25:25,019 --> 01:25:27,479where you just have to say it'snot enough is that what you're140801:25:27,479 --> 01:25:27,869saying?140901:25:28,440 --> 01:25:33,600Yes, lick your pencil lead.Kevin. Good note this down when141001:25:34,140 --> 01:25:39,030when people do not donate enoughsad must put chapter art of141101:25:39,030 --> 01:25:40,260really sad things and141201:25:41,940 --> 01:25:44,580sad puppies works really well.141301:25:45,750 --> 01:25:48,300Yes, children was sad looks ontheir faces. Yeah,141401:25:48,330 --> 01:25:50,430yeah. Yeah. Preferably holding ashoe.141501:25:50,910 --> 01:25:56,550Yeah. So it I think I have aindicate like as like an141601:25:56,550 --> 01:26:01,800indication of why then and Ithink Ben hills, the developer141701:26:01,800 --> 01:26:06,690behind at any time podcastplayer. I think he perfectly141801:26:06,720 --> 01:26:11,400sums up why we got lowerdonations. Okay, so he says he's141901:26:11,400 --> 01:26:15,870seen as $24.07 And he said,Saturdays I go for a walk and142001:26:15,870 --> 01:26:19,740catch up on the latest episode.Not only does podcasting 2.0142101:26:19,740 --> 01:26:21,900give you a great give you greatnew features and value for142201:26:21,900 --> 01:26:25,410value. Turns out it's also italso keeps you fit. Having said142301:26:25,410 --> 01:26:28,770that last week's marathon twohour and 10 minute episode142401:26:28,770 --> 01:26:32,010nearly killed me. Go podcastingBen at anytime player.142501:26:32,580 --> 01:26:34,800podcast was too long.142601:26:35,580 --> 01:26:40,800How many we are actually apublic health threat. Yeah,142701:26:40,800 --> 01:26:41,070that's142801:26:41,070 --> 01:26:42,000the problem. How142901:26:42,000 --> 01:26:45,600many videos have to die beforethey cancel this show?143001:26:47,580 --> 01:26:48,810We're killing our audience.143101:26:49,739 --> 01:26:53,009Yes, we're gonna get canceled.That's it. That's that's our143201:26:53,009 --> 01:26:54,029PayPal donations.143301:26:54,060 --> 01:26:57,720Wow. Yes. All right, good.143401:26:58,950 --> 01:27:01,440Let's see here. We got meremortals podcast or buddy Karen143501:27:01,440 --> 01:27:05,400down to the fountain that gaveus a big long road ducks 22 to143601:27:05,400 --> 01:27:12,93022. And he says, not sure ifthis boost is for Dave smooth,143701:27:12,930 --> 01:27:18,210crooning. Adam sultry Frenchdinner for the wife for the DJ143801:27:18,210 --> 01:27:23,220groin replacement. That's when Itried to blow my groin off with143901:27:25,110 --> 01:27:28,200in any case, these sets are wellearned love the last episode.144001:27:28,200 --> 01:27:29,670Quack, quack, quack. Yes. Thank144101:27:29,670 --> 01:27:30,300you very much.144201:27:31,140 --> 01:27:38,130You do it. He's a bro. is ableKirby gave us 50,000 sets.144301:27:38,160 --> 01:27:40,080Was he the big baller for today?144401:27:40,410 --> 01:27:45,330I think he made the there mighthave been another 15 We're gonna144501:27:45,330 --> 01:27:49,230have Shakalaka blades on?144601:27:50,310 --> 01:27:52,290He can he could share his ballerstatus.144701:27:52,920 --> 01:27:55,890Curio caster was the app inquestion here. And he says, I144801:27:55,890 --> 01:27:59,640don't like writing notes. I justwant to boost but don't write144901:27:59,640 --> 01:28:06,720something you don't know. I'mlistening. Boost. The big145001:28:06,720 --> 01:28:12,210baller. John's BRT send his49,000 SATs. That's almost145101:28:12,270 --> 01:28:18,72050,000 I think he deserves aballer to podcast. Shot Carla 20145201:28:18,720 --> 01:28:24,570is Blaze owner. He sent that onethrough fountain and he just145301:28:24,570 --> 01:28:34,350says r&d That's the message r&dOur n or m in an indie or indie145401:28:35,100 --> 01:28:36,690random obviously145501:28:37,770 --> 01:28:40,830any anything Kevin. Pick145601:28:41,370 --> 01:28:44,280up the other day I got a donutThis is one of the problems with145701:28:44,280 --> 01:28:49,440donut again a value for valuelesson guys. I got a note on the145801:28:49,440 --> 01:29:01,380no agenda show and someone saidI am an S A hmm SHM no S H M and145901:29:01,380 --> 01:29:05,640everyone's like surprised I'msurprised you don't know what146001:29:05,640 --> 01:29:11,700that means. stay at home mom.Oh, like I did. I mean it took146101:29:11,700 --> 01:29:15,600me a long time to get w f h Ididn't I didn't understand that146201:29:15,600 --> 01:29:21,180one for you. We know wfh workfrom home. Work From Home these146301:29:21,180 --> 01:29:25,650are all pandemic terms now workfor is like what is W F h but I146401:29:25,650 --> 01:29:30,120did not get that so be carefulwith your acronyms people. WTF146501:29:32,220 --> 01:29:34,770WTF whf?146601:29:35,850 --> 01:29:40,050Why every time every timesomebody posts post one of those146701:29:40,050 --> 01:29:42,750like short, something thatstarts with a W i just146801:29:42,750 --> 01:29:45,600automatically think it's dirty.I mean, yes, yes. Yes.146901:29:46,260 --> 01:29:46,650You know,147001:29:46,800 --> 01:29:49,710like, I'm like wfh, I'm come Mymind is coming up with all kinds147101:29:49,710 --> 01:29:53,790of horrible phrases. I don'tknow what r&d is, but I know147201:29:53,790 --> 01:29:55,500that isn't BRT. Yeah.147301:29:55,530 --> 01:29:57,150Nice. is a national treasure.147401:29:57,180 --> 01:30:03,930Yeah. Thank you John's BRT.Steve Webb Oh Steve when he got147501:30:03,930 --> 01:30:09,150cast our God caster Yeah 7777cents through pod friend and he147601:30:09,150 --> 01:30:13,680says because you rock Oh mypodcast at audio Bible dot Link147701:30:13,680 --> 01:30:16,440has a constant incoming streamof sets and it's all because of147801:30:16,440 --> 01:30:17,940you guys go podcasting147901:30:24,120 --> 01:30:31,290I like that combo combo it'swork Abel Kirby sent us 13,333148001:30:31,290 --> 01:30:38,640sets and he says boost for Kyrondown boost. Okay I guess he just148101:30:38,640 --> 01:30:43,680likes Karen a lot see oh there'sa page that just says boost on148201:30:43,680 --> 01:30:53,610it and that's from forged foe is11,011 11,111 SATs so a row ones148301:30:53,940 --> 01:30:57,930through fountain and he justsays boost Oh on boost.148401:30:59,189 --> 01:31:00,329I was a little weak and we tryto148501:31:02,250 --> 01:31:08,490kind of flesh it boosted a pinkyand this one set just as high.148601:31:08,790 --> 01:31:10,050Okay, okay.148701:31:11,130 --> 01:31:16,440This is the one SATs Hey, thanksfor your boost148801:31:16,470 --> 01:31:22,500boost estetica the inventor ofthe term booster gram sent us148901:31:22,710 --> 01:31:27,2702376 SATs to fountain and hesays love the icon go booster149001:31:27,270 --> 01:31:36,600grams. Yeah. How you doing?15,000 SATs from David meatus149101:31:36,630 --> 01:31:40,830and he says thanks for themention of Fun Fact Friday. See149201:31:40,830 --> 01:31:42,960you Monday, Adam Lila and Davidmeet us.149301:31:42,990 --> 01:31:46,470Oh my goodness. I sure hope so.I'm going to do a test Sunday149401:31:46,470 --> 01:31:54,540night. mean if I'm negativeSunday night, I mean I'm willing149501:31:54,540 --> 01:31:58,380to go to Nashville but I'm I'mmore I'm more cautious about149601:31:58,380 --> 01:31:59,430that than anything.149701:31:59,910 --> 01:32:01,860But did you actually testpositive? Yes, I149801:32:01,860 --> 01:32:05,850did. I did. Okay, yeah. But Imean, what does it mean? Now?149901:32:05,850 --> 01:32:07,020Okay, sure.150001:32:07,200 --> 01:32:09,510Maybe first one was negative,but your second one was150101:32:09,510 --> 01:32:10,440positive. Right? Yeah.150201:32:10,440 --> 01:32:14,370The first one I testedimmediately on on Monday. I was150301:32:14,370 --> 01:32:19,050like, Okay, let me just checknothing, and then waited until150401:32:19,680 --> 01:32:24,210yesterday and was showedpositive. And today I'm sick. I150501:32:24,210 --> 01:32:27,600mean, definitely. Um, yeah. Imean, I right now as we speak,150601:32:27,600 --> 01:32:31,050I'm sloshing Washington mygaloshes,150701:32:31,260 --> 01:32:37,290I remember at podcasts businessomit me we, me and Tom walked150801:32:37,290 --> 01:32:40,380into that. It was like some kindof club thing where they had150901:32:40,380 --> 01:32:43,770this huge dance party. I thinkit was like a heart radio or151001:32:43,770 --> 01:32:47,610something like that. He walkedin and I'm like, sat there and151101:32:47,610 --> 01:32:50,730stared for about 30 seconds.He's like, No, I'm out. Around151201:32:50,730 --> 01:32:53,850he's like he said, you can seethe Delta floating in the air.151301:32:57,510 --> 01:33:02,370Oh, Billy Newman since 2000 SATsthrough fountain at said SATs151401:33:02,370 --> 01:33:03,330from the Cash App.151501:33:03,479 --> 01:33:07,709Oops. Oh, cool. That's workingnow. Nice. Yeah. Nice.151601:33:08,820 --> 01:33:15,690Scott. Listed as s dot c dot Odot t dot T yes in this 10,420151701:33:15,690 --> 01:33:17,850SATs and he says go podcasting.2.0151801:33:17,880 --> 01:33:19,320very nice respectable Thank151901:33:19,320 --> 01:33:27,480you. Okay, sir. Sir Spencer's ina 6887 says through fountain it152001:33:27,480 --> 01:33:34,080says 6887 equals nuts in t nine.This is my nuts boost for being152101:33:34,080 --> 01:33:37,170nuts and running with runningwith the podcasting 2.0152201:33:37,170 --> 01:33:42,750Scissors. That is the new mantraof podcasting. Two ways.152301:33:43,170 --> 01:33:44,160Podcasting. 2.0152401:33:45,270 --> 01:33:46,350running this is152501:33:48,359 --> 01:33:50,699we're all greatly lookingforward to having Dave join us152601:33:50,699 --> 01:33:52,589with bowls for buds. Oh, that'sright. I'm gonna be on there.152701:33:53,339 --> 01:33:56,519Live following no agenda onSunday, February the 20th.152801:33:56,729 --> 01:33:59,549Thanks for all you do. Cool. Weare going to be stepping up on152901:33:59,549 --> 01:34:02,069crowdsourcing some code thisyear. So Dave doesn't have to153001:34:02,069 --> 01:34:04,469work front end. Love his lid.153101:34:06,330 --> 01:34:09,840Wow, what a punishment day ifyou don't have to work on front153201:34:09,840 --> 01:34:11,820end. Your favorite thing to do153301:34:11,970 --> 01:34:15,120that he's saying that we don'thave to work on front end really153401:34:15,120 --> 01:34:18,090means is Can somebody elseplease do this? Because this153501:34:18,090 --> 01:34:24,930looks like it looks like they'recalling McCormick send us 333153601:34:24,930 --> 01:34:30,240sets. Thank you, fountain and hesays I deliver legally mot I153701:34:30,240 --> 01:34:34,110deliver legally mobbing throughthe streets. What does that153801:34:34,110 --> 01:34:38,190mean? I delivered legallymobbing through the streets of153901:34:38,190 --> 01:34:41,670Woodland Hills, California. Oh,if I moved to Texas, I will only154001:34:41,670 --> 01:34:44,520accept SATs from curry for hispod father vapes.154101:34:45,300 --> 01:34:48,270Remember he talked about what hewas doing when he was listening?154201:34:48,270 --> 01:34:51,840He was delivering something. Oh,that's right. That's right, man.154301:34:51,870 --> 01:34:53,820I may have to move man, but Igot memory.154401:34:55,830 --> 01:34:58,680That's right. This is theofficial, the official drug154501:34:58,680 --> 01:35:00,690supplier of the podcast. TwoPoint OSHA.154601:35:01,080 --> 01:35:01,980No, he's not.154701:35:03,659 --> 01:35:06,209He said he said deliveringdelivering the vapes aren't154801:35:06,209 --> 01:35:09,899those illegal in that they makeit illegal. I154901:35:09,900 --> 01:35:12,870think the vapes that he'stalking about in California are155001:35:12,870 --> 01:35:13,740legal. Yeah.155101:35:14,460 --> 01:35:18,930Oh, okay. Okay. That's rightstate by state laws. I still155201:35:18,930 --> 01:35:20,700live in good old Alabama. Hey,155301:35:20,730 --> 01:35:24,390Texas, man, isn't it? It's, it'slike I think they, they155401:35:24,390 --> 01:35:26,730immediately throw you in theriver with a rock around your155501:35:26,730 --> 01:35:29,280neck. That's right forknowledge.155601:35:30,210 --> 01:35:35,370Comic Strip blogger. Hey, sendus 10,033 sets through pod155701:35:35,370 --> 01:35:38,250friend and he says, howdypodcasting 2.0 Team Dave and155801:35:38,250 --> 01:35:41,370Adam. Today I just want to sayGet well soon Adam after155901:35:41,370 --> 01:35:44,250catching COVID You've wongenetic lottery so I'm sure your156001:35:44,250 --> 01:35:45,450recovery will be smooth.156101:35:46,979 --> 01:35:52,259What am I doing rematch? Yes, Ihave Vonda genetic lottery. Hey,156201:35:52,289 --> 01:35:57,059I need a comic strip bloggerboost jingle gotta have one yes156301:35:57,059 --> 01:35:59,999that's a CSV I need a boost. Ineed one in yours baby.156401:36:00,720 --> 01:36:06,480Anonymous anonymous boost fromthe breeze app 5000 SATs nice he156501:36:06,480 --> 01:36:09,870says great plug I don't know whoit is. Don't know what the156601:36:09,870 --> 01:36:14,310referencing but we'll take it.Thank you. All right. That's the156701:36:14,340 --> 01:36:15,570histograms I had.156801:36:17,010 --> 01:36:22,650So for our guests here today, noso please see how important the156901:36:22,680 --> 01:36:26,280numerology is in booster grams.This is another thing you can157001:36:26,280 --> 01:36:30,990play with it becomes reallyfunny you can have donation157101:36:30,990 --> 01:36:36,750drives based upon the date, pidate you know the PI 314 You157201:36:36,750 --> 01:36:39,990know there's there's all thesethings you can do special like157301:36:39,990 --> 01:36:43,140episode numbers. I'll give anexample from Korea and the157401:36:43,140 --> 01:36:46,440keeper I was just looking at theheli pad boost check this out.157501:36:47,400 --> 01:36:53,100To Korean the keeper 6969 setsthe booster Graham. My therapist157601:36:53,100 --> 01:36:55,920wife and I are certifiedrelationship coaches and sex157701:36:55,920 --> 01:37:00,240alternative sex educators. Ifany is interested in a better157801:37:00,240 --> 01:37:03,570relationship with better sexcontact us. I mean, we're all157901:37:03,570 --> 01:37:07,530getting advertised advertisingthrough this method is really158001:37:07,530 --> 01:37:08,310interesting.158101:37:09,000 --> 01:37:12,120I tried this I tried this withmy first boost yesterday I sent158201:37:12,150 --> 01:37:17,610I was listening to the pod landand I boosted them 4401 The158301:37:17,610 --> 01:37:20,430message had nothing to do withthe number but I'm wondering if158401:37:20,430 --> 01:37:22,290they're gonna figure out why Ichose that number.158501:37:23,130 --> 01:37:29,910Numerology Yeah, it's beautifulto say the the legal pad in158601:37:29,910 --> 01:37:32,280front of Kevin is now completelyfull. You're having a sound of158701:37:32,280 --> 01:37:38,310writing margins to figure thisdonate donations, monthly158801:37:38,310 --> 01:37:43,800donations Jeremy new $5 CameronRose $25 pod verse, our buddies158901:37:43,800 --> 01:37:52,440at pod verse. So $50 Thank you.Sorry, I'm good rebound writing.159001:37:52,590 --> 01:37:58,020Lauren ball $24.20 Mitch Downey$10 Krista ruber, char Barak159101:37:58,050 --> 01:38:03,030$10. And Terry Keller. $5. Everytime I read Terry Taylor's name159201:38:03,030 --> 01:38:08,400I always think of Tim Keller.Tim. Yes. Oh, yep. Yep. Tim159301:38:08,400 --> 01:38:14,280Keller, the preacher andChristian philosopher. Would you159401:38:14,280 --> 01:38:16,800call it from up in New York? Ithink159501:38:17,310 --> 01:38:20,820yeah, yeah, he's, they've got apodcast with some of his best159601:38:20,820 --> 01:38:21,660teachings is really good159701:38:22,080 --> 01:38:25,200care. Terry Keller is known asthe human subscription machine.159801:38:25,920 --> 01:38:29,070He, he had this isn't Esther'snickname he donates to159901:38:29,070 --> 01:38:33,840everything. Mo facts, no agenda.I think D H unplugged160001:38:34,320 --> 01:38:37,680podcasting. 2.0 There are justpeople who are just really160101:38:37,680 --> 01:38:41,520rooting for podcasting. 2.0success, and they will just160201:38:41,520 --> 01:38:44,580donate and push and boosteverything they can and I love160301:38:44,580 --> 01:38:45,060them. All.160401:38:46,050 --> 01:38:49,500Right, let's booster gramtutorial over160501:38:49,560 --> 01:38:54,660Yes. And thank you to all of oursupporters. We could do more on160601:38:54,660 --> 01:38:57,360the on the bigger numbers in thePay Pal because of course the160701:38:57,360 --> 01:39:00,900booster grams. Though some bigballers are nice. We definitely160801:39:00,900 --> 01:39:04,560need more to support the12 $1,300 a month nut that we160901:39:04,560 --> 01:39:08,310have now. And growing. Because Ihear we're going to be doing161001:39:08,310 --> 01:39:12,330subscription shit now all of asudden. Just kidding. Just161101:39:12,330 --> 01:39:18,450kidding. Just kidding. So yeah,new podcast apps.com. And161201:39:18,480 --> 01:39:26,370obviously, at podcast index.org.Any questions, Kevin? No.161301:39:27,479 --> 01:39:31,859You mentioned? Gosh, this isthis is totally off of what we161401:39:31,859 --> 01:39:34,319just did. But you just mentionedsubscriptions. Again, I just had161501:39:34,319 --> 01:39:36,929this idea. Like I mean, it'spossible we get to the point161601:39:36,929 --> 01:39:39,329where the value payments wherethere's enough enough apps that161701:39:39,329 --> 01:39:41,609support it in the way that wewant that you could add a tag161801:39:41,609 --> 01:39:45,719that says, you know, I don'twant people listening past this161901:39:45,719 --> 01:39:47,999much or listening to this manyepisodes unless you're162001:39:47,999 --> 01:39:50,309supporting me at a certainpoint, but I wonder how scalable162101:39:50,309 --> 01:39:52,349that is. I want to keep on doingbetter on my brand.162201:39:52,560 --> 01:39:57,750Have you seen the bonus contenttag proposal? Is that almost162301:39:57,750 --> 01:40:02,670fits exactly with what you'resaying. It's basically content,162401:40:03,210 --> 01:40:07,680certain content is it's behind apaywall that you unlock through162501:40:07,680 --> 01:40:08,910a boost. Yeah.162601:40:09,810 --> 01:40:14,100Interesting. See, I want theexact opposite. Yeah, I'll tell162701:40:14,100 --> 01:40:20,040you what, here's what I know Idid you say that Kevin? You say,162801:40:20,220 --> 01:40:25,560Me too. Yeah, here's what Iwant. I love all apps for162901:40:25,560 --> 01:40:30,750different reasons. What I reallylike is when an app has a queue163001:40:30,780 --> 01:40:34,500of new episodes that have justupdated in chronological order,163101:40:34,800 --> 01:40:37,170I can because I can, like podfriend does this in a very163201:40:37,170 --> 01:40:40,830visual way. Like, okay, here'sall the episodes, and this one163301:40:40,830 --> 01:40:43,650just came out yesterday, youknow, going back and I can kind163401:40:43,650 --> 01:40:46,830of scroll back and you know, itcreates an automatic cue for me,163501:40:47,040 --> 01:40:50,730what I would like, is the minutea new, a new here comes, the163601:40:50,730 --> 01:40:56,010minute a new pod drops, the Iwould like 10,000 SATs to go to163701:40:56,010 --> 01:40:58,380my favorite to that podcastright away without even163801:40:58,380 --> 01:41:03,030listening to it. It shows up inthe app boost163901:41:06,060 --> 01:41:07,350from Kevin says, Man,164001:41:08,609 --> 01:41:13,319I don't know. But You're 100%,right, like that is the beauty164101:41:13,349 --> 01:41:16,619of you figure out what you want.You know, and if you're a164201:41:16,619 --> 01:41:20,129developer, then go and build it.Yeah, the trouble that we get164301:41:20,129 --> 01:41:23,039into is when we try to solveproblems for other people. And164401:41:23,039 --> 01:41:25,889that's what I was just thinkinglike, I could probably come up164501:41:25,889 --> 01:41:28,049with some ideas that may bepretty good for people who want164601:41:28,049 --> 01:41:30,329to do subscription podcaststuff, but it's really not where164701:41:30,329 --> 01:41:32,549my interests lie right now. So Ishould probably let somebody164801:41:32,549 --> 01:41:32,999else solve164901:41:33,000 --> 01:41:36,810it right on. And we can't solveall problems of the world, but165001:41:36,810 --> 01:41:40,470we can continue on the pathwe're on and just keep doing165101:41:40,470 --> 01:41:40,860better.165201:41:41,609 --> 01:41:43,559in it. You know, one of thethings that you guys were165301:41:43,559 --> 01:41:47,759running point on in thenamespace proposals was the165401:41:47,759 --> 01:41:52,589channel's idea of bringingchannels to the namespace. Is165501:41:52,589 --> 01:41:55,289that do you think that's stillworth pursuing? What do you what165601:41:55,289 --> 01:41:58,769are your feelings on that? Thatwas that worked out for like165701:41:58,769 --> 01:42:00,809that of Apple and other peoplehave tried it?165801:42:02,880 --> 01:42:06,360I mean, I think it just caused aton of confusion. Really?165901:42:06,479 --> 01:42:08,999Yeah, I feel like it derailed usbecause we were kind of getting166001:42:08,999 --> 01:42:11,309excited about the idea of usingchannels for networks, but166101:42:11,309 --> 01:42:13,259that's not really the way thatthey're using channels.166201:42:14,190 --> 01:42:17,250Okay, I've never reallyunderstood the channels issue,166301:42:17,250 --> 01:42:19,950is that worth explaining it tome? Is it something? Or is it166401:42:19,950 --> 01:42:21,810just something that we're notthat interested in?166501:42:23,250 --> 01:42:28,500Um, I like thinking aboutchannels in terms of, and I166601:42:28,500 --> 01:42:30,810think this is the way we startedbringing the conversation before166701:42:30,870 --> 01:42:34,020it died off. But the idea oflike, similar podcast or podcast166801:42:34,020 --> 01:42:35,940that I'm willing to recommend,or podcasts that have some166901:42:35,940 --> 01:42:41,310association, in so, you know,Adam, you're you don't just have167001:42:41,340 --> 01:42:44,040this show, you've got othershows. So being able to say in167101:42:44,040 --> 01:42:48,060your feed, hay podcast apps, ifyou want to recommend other, you167201:42:48,060 --> 01:42:50,010know, enjoying this show, andyou want to recommend some other167301:42:50,010 --> 01:42:53,520shows, here's some other showsthat I'm on. I like that idea.167401:42:54,090 --> 01:42:59,340But I don't know how, sorry, howfar we need to go with that. I167501:42:59,340 --> 01:43:02,910think Apple definitely made itpretty confusing with with the167601:43:02,910 --> 01:43:04,890way they set up subscriptions,and you had to have a channel167701:43:04,890 --> 01:43:08,400and then you can have Ah, okay,so it was under a channel and a167801:43:08,400 --> 01:43:10,800channel, not necessarily theshow. And like, that's all very167901:43:10,800 --> 01:43:14,280confusing. But in terms of arecommendation from the person168001:43:14,280 --> 01:43:16,800who's publishing the speed, hey,here's other shows. I'm either168101:43:16,800 --> 01:43:19,380in or I like that. I just wantto recommend to people, I think168201:43:19,380 --> 01:43:20,550that a valid168301:43:20,580 --> 01:43:23,250but we have a tag for that,don't we, Dave? Or a proposal168401:43:23,250 --> 01:43:27,360related? Yeah, we have deletedpod? Yeah, yeah. Holy crap. We168501:43:27,360 --> 01:43:28,350thought of everything.168601:43:30,210 --> 01:43:33,360Kevin and Tom started fleshingthat out. And then we had to get168701:43:33,360 --> 01:43:36,780guid done first, really, becauseyou don't want to base channels168801:43:36,780 --> 01:43:40,170on feed URLs really do want tohave them based on some, like168901:43:40,230 --> 01:43:43,620higher level metadata. And so wehad that, we got that done. And169001:43:43,620 --> 01:43:47,430then we never really returned totalk about the channel proposal169101:43:47,430 --> 01:43:52,500more. So. I mean, it's, it maybe one of those things that's169201:43:52,500 --> 01:43:55,890like, I'm not afraid of ofhaving tags that didn't169301:43:56,430 --> 01:44:00,870ultimately end up never gettingused. That's not a problem. I169401:44:00,870 --> 01:44:02,820mean, people people are eithergoing to use them find them169501:44:02,820 --> 01:44:06,630useful, or they're not. Havingthem there is not is not an169601:44:06,630 --> 01:44:10,680issue. But But I don't want to Idon't want to waste time if we169701:44:10,680 --> 01:44:13,560don't think it's going to be areal successful thing.169801:44:17,670 --> 01:44:22,290Dave, did we did we somehow not?I mean, maybe it came in between169901:44:22,290 --> 01:44:26,400shows or somehow I don't thinkwe really promoted the fountain170001:44:26,430 --> 01:44:27,420app news.170101:44:28,649 --> 01:44:32,639It just came this week, like themid the mid week, I think, yeah.170201:44:32,639 --> 01:44:36,029Fountain fountain is nowonboarding. podcasters. With170301:44:36,269 --> 01:44:40,709with a wallet right in the appis amazing. Yeah, the way that170401:44:40,709 --> 01:44:46,079works, too, like I worked withOscar to he, um, I have the170501:44:46,079 --> 01:44:49,169ability, you know, what I do isfor specific use case for this,170601:44:49,169 --> 01:44:53,339I can set up a Partner API. Soit's just sort of a subset of170701:44:53,339 --> 01:44:59,729the normal API that's restrictedto only that specific app or170801:44:59,729 --> 01:45:04,829that If developer set of APIkeys. And so what we did, what I170901:45:04,829 --> 01:45:10,469did was set up a Partner API forOscar at fountain, so that he171001:45:10,469 --> 01:45:16,379could send value blocks into theindex for so he can say, hey,171101:45:16,769 --> 01:45:21,689hey, podcast index here, thisfeed ID now has this once this171201:45:21,689 --> 01:45:24,869value block, so it'll it'll handit off to us. And it will stick171301:45:24,869 --> 01:45:26,849it in there sort of like apodcast or wallet, but through171401:45:26,849 --> 01:45:32,219the API. Very cool. That allowsthem to do that they can171501:45:32,219 --> 01:45:36,539onboard. They rolled their ownLNP node, and now they're done.171601:45:36,600 --> 01:45:39,720They take the they do the opensource. They took that and made171701:45:39,720 --> 01:45:40,590that and use that.171801:45:41,640 --> 01:45:44,010Now, Tim is running their stufflike he does for us.171901:45:44,040 --> 01:45:46,290Oh, perfect. Oh, perfect. Okay.Oh, good.172001:45:46,770 --> 01:45:49,860I'm really glad about that, too.Because a 1010 deserves to me172101:45:49,860 --> 01:45:53,280He, He does great work. He needsthat business. That's a good172201:45:53,280 --> 01:45:53,880business. I'm172301:45:53,880 --> 01:45:56,490glad he's wanting to do it too.But of course, that's what he's172401:45:56,490 --> 01:45:59,460always wanted. He's alwayswanted to work with B will172501:45:59,460 --> 01:46:03,240always want to do b2b. Yeah,yeah. So perfect business. Well,172601:46:03,240 --> 01:46:07,380congratulations to fountain man.That's that's, that's really,172701:46:07,380 --> 01:46:09,360really progressive. That'sprogressing.172801:46:09,359 --> 01:46:12,299What's up? What's up with PODland like horning in on our172901:46:12,299 --> 01:46:15,509turf? They're like interviewingGigi and not and Oscar Mary.173001:46:15,509 --> 01:46:19,799They're like, scooping orscooping are our guests. No, no,173101:46:19,829 --> 01:46:23,099no. I'm gonna start doingSpotify press releases.173201:46:23,130 --> 01:46:28,950Oh my god. Wow. Well, that wasthat was really rude in so many173301:46:28,950 --> 01:46:34,860ways. I loved it. Good. Oh, man.That was almost British level173401:46:34,860 --> 01:46:40,440rudeness. Humor I was good. Atit delights me to no end.173501:46:40,710 --> 01:46:44,730Because yeah, it's boring totalk about the the legacy app173601:46:44,730 --> 01:46:48,150companies, this exciting peopleout there doing exciting things.173701:46:48,270 --> 01:46:51,300And that includes Tom and Kevinfrom Buzzsprout, who not only173801:46:51,300 --> 01:46:54,990have supported this, thisproject from the very beginning,173901:46:55,560 --> 01:46:58,890with their work with theireffort, but also with their174001:46:58,890 --> 01:47:02,940finances. That is, is incrediblyappreciated. We would not be174101:47:02,940 --> 01:47:06,660doing it to this level withoutus for sure. So I want to thank174201:47:06,660 --> 01:47:09,870you again, both personally, butalso thank you, thank all of174301:47:09,870 --> 01:47:13,500your employees who I'm sure weonly make life more complicated174401:47:13,500 --> 01:47:17,790for them and, and, you know,especially the Support Division,174501:47:18,540 --> 01:47:22,890but also the implementationpart. I know it's it's work, and174601:47:22,920 --> 01:47:25,590I have an idea of what it takesand and it's just really174701:47:25,590 --> 01:47:28,650appreciate it. And it's great tobe working with you guys.174801:47:29,340 --> 01:47:31,140Thanks. Appreciate it.Appreciate you guys.174901:47:31,170 --> 01:47:33,120Yeah, it's always a funafternoon. We can talk to you175001:47:33,120 --> 01:47:34,110guys. So thank you so much.175101:47:34,260 --> 01:47:36,060Yeah, don't get used to it. We,175201:47:37,170 --> 01:47:41,340we, we we need to we need to endit because people are literally175301:47:41,340 --> 01:47:43,140dying on the sidewalk. Yes, it's175401:47:43,140 --> 01:47:45,390getting too long. We've got tostop. Thank you very much,175501:47:45,390 --> 01:47:48,720everybody for joining the boardmeeting of podcasting. 2.0 We175601:47:48,720 --> 01:47:51,150look forward to be here nextweek talking about everything175701:47:51,150 --> 01:47:53,970that's going on. Be goodeverybody. See you then bye bye.175801:48:09,569 --> 01:48:14,129You have been listening topodcasting 2.0 Visit podcasts175901:48:14,159 --> 01:48:16,829index.org For more information176001:48:19,979 --> 01:48:20,759go podcast.176101:48:22,890 --> 01:48:23,670moost