Episode 128: Fully Fingered

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,430Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0For April 7 2023 Episode 128200:00:05,580 --> 00:00:10,290We're fully fingered. Oh, it'sFriday once again hello300:00:10,290 --> 00:00:13,200everybody welcome to the onlyexecutive boardroom that has400:00:13,200 --> 00:00:17,760IKEA chairs that's right timefor podcasting for now when we500:00:17,760 --> 00:00:20,610break it down the future ofpodcasting is here we talk about600:00:20,610 --> 00:00:24,510podcast index.org Of course thenamespace and everything700:00:24,510 --> 00:00:28,170happening at podcast index Dougsocial I'm Adam Perry here in800:00:28,170 --> 00:00:30,870the heart of the Texas HillCountry and in Alabama, the man900:00:30,870 --> 00:00:34,260who will filter your Cloudflaretighter than anyone say hello to1000:00:34,260 --> 00:00:39,180my friend on the other endladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jones1100:00:40,590 --> 00:00:47,640Dave Jones: your bro he didn'tget distracted by the computer I1200:00:47,640 --> 00:00:51,390was like I just I was waitingfor you to fall out and you know1300:00:51,390 --> 00:00:54,120get that because I was like hey,we don't have a chat room we1400:00:54,120 --> 00:00:56,610need to know when to rip is ifyou got a boost and we're right1500:00:56,610 --> 00:00:57,480in the middle of the intro.1600:00:58,470 --> 00:01:00,660Adam Curry: Everybody startsripping and boosting. Hey1700:01:00,660 --> 00:01:01,680brother, how you doing Dave?1800:01:02,400 --> 00:01:04,500Dave Jones: Good. Finger free.I'm back.1900:01:05,280 --> 00:01:07,230Adam Curry: Your what fingerwould you say finger free?2000:01:07,560 --> 00:01:10,680Dave Jones: No, no, I'll seewhat 10 of those a fever free.2100:01:10,800 --> 00:01:14,850Okay, yeah. Billy fingered andNo. in unfavored2200:01:14,910 --> 00:01:17,250Adam Curry: alright show titledfully fingered when you write2300:01:17,250 --> 00:01:19,980that down right away. Okay, I'mliking2400:01:20,520 --> 00:01:23,310Dave Jones: one of our gueststoday is is also Hi, so2500:01:24,750 --> 00:01:27,780Adam Curry: we'll get to ourguests in a moment. First, let2600:01:27,780 --> 00:01:30,540me check in a little bit. I amreally excited. I have we are2700:01:30,540 --> 00:01:33,540live by the way. For those whodon't know what it is live item2800:01:33,540 --> 00:01:38,610tag we are lit and live. Get oneof those swanky modern podcast2900:01:38,610 --> 00:01:43,170apps at podcast app.com The onesthat we're currently pod verse3000:01:43,170 --> 00:01:47,370curio Kassar podcast addict loveit I hear by the way fountain is3100:01:47,370 --> 00:01:48,060very close.3200:01:49,170 --> 00:01:50,130Dave Jones: To get close towhat?3300:01:51,930 --> 00:01:54,270Adam Curry: To lit toimplementing lit.3400:01:55,170 --> 00:01:58,290Dave Jones: Oh, where did youhear this? I did not hear this.3500:01:58,470 --> 00:02:00,180Adam Curry: I heard it straightfrom the horse's mouth I heard3600:02:00,180 --> 00:02:06,630from from Oscar know from anOscar from I forget his horse.3700:02:06,690 --> 00:02:10,890And this horse knows his brotherknown as brother his. His3800:02:10,890 --> 00:02:15,630partner. His partner, Mick Yes,thank you. Okay,3900:02:15,690 --> 00:02:19,830Dave Jones: yeah. The horsesOscar though. I mean,4000:02:21,420 --> 00:02:24,030Adam Curry: yeah, apparently,apparently, they're, they're not4100:02:24,030 --> 00:02:24,750far behind.4200:02:26,160 --> 00:02:27,810Dave Jones: What did you say?And when did they say it?4300:02:27,840 --> 00:02:30,240Adam Curry: Well, you said whereare you? Well, here's how it4400:02:30,240 --> 00:02:35,250went. So I got a Twitter DM. AndI'm I'm not on Twitter that much4500:02:35,250 --> 00:02:37,140anymore. Actually. He's amazingthat he got through to me4600:02:37,140 --> 00:02:41,640because I mean, the doge dog istoo triggering. Every single4700:02:41,640 --> 00:02:45,360time I see that thing like ah,it's like, I can't look at that.4800:02:46,350 --> 00:02:49,530Also, Have you have you noticedthat I don't think you're much4900:02:49,530 --> 00:02:54,030on net vertebrate ever sinceApril 1. And I don't have I've5000:02:54,030 --> 00:02:58,860never had a blue checkmark. AndI don't intend to pay for one. I5100:02:58,860 --> 00:03:05,610have like 69,060 60 or 69,000followers. The engagement has5200:03:05,610 --> 00:03:07,590like gone down by 90%5300:03:09,030 --> 00:03:12,150Dave Jones: because all the botsare not engaging anymore. I5400:03:12,630 --> 00:03:15,120Adam Curry: know I mean, peoplearen't I don't think people are5500:03:15,120 --> 00:03:17,820seeing me as much I'm not sureexactly what's happening. I5600:03:17,820 --> 00:03:18,720don't really care.5700:03:19,860 --> 00:03:24,720Dave Jones: Have you been whenthey call that dT d not5800:03:25,410 --> 00:03:31,200filtered? Yeah, like D deemphasize or? I don't know what5900:03:31,200 --> 00:03:35,340the word is for it and I don'tknow they like what they do6000:03:35,370 --> 00:03:38,340where they used to make youartificially push you down in6100:03:38,340 --> 00:03:39,930the rank Yeah, direct?6200:03:39,960 --> 00:03:42,150Adam Curry: I guess so. I guessI guess without a blue6300:03:42,150 --> 00:03:45,000checkmark. I think I thinkthat's what happens. Shadow6400:03:45,000 --> 00:03:47,760banned. Yeah, that's what Idon't think it's really shadow6500:03:47,760 --> 00:03:50,730banned. I think deemphasize iswhat it is. It's funny because6600:03:50,730 --> 00:03:53,940actually opened up more time inmy life for nostre which has6700:03:53,940 --> 00:03:58,440been reasonably interestingbecause there's no algorithm so6800:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,330it's a it's a bit like it's abit like Mastodon you know it's6900:04:03,330 --> 00:04:09,210like there's you know, you'reyou're you get down to a message7000:04:09,210 --> 00:04:11,310you've read before and you'redone you know it's time to do7100:04:11,310 --> 00:04:13,980something else move on there'snothing left to read here. I've7200:04:13,980 --> 00:04:19,710seen it all Yeah, although themastodon podcast index dot7300:04:19,710 --> 00:04:24,780social. I mean, I appreciatepeople tagged me and stuff and I7400:04:24,780 --> 00:04:27,810want to be tagged in it but man,what is the deal with7500:04:27,810 --> 00:04:31,830transcripts? What is thisargument? What are we what are7600:04:31,830 --> 00:04:38,010we arguing over? I knew workedfor two years everything's fine7700:04:38,010 --> 00:04:39,450what is the problem?7800:04:39,960 --> 00:04:43,980Dave Jones: I knew this you knowme well enough right? Yes at7900:04:43,980 --> 00:04:48,270about at about post 12 I waslike yeah, that and this is8000:04:48,270 --> 00:04:49,320where Adams gonna bring this up.8100:04:50,940 --> 00:04:53,880Adam Curry: What are we doingbut I don't understand. Here's8200:04:53,880 --> 00:04:59,310what I think. So someone made alibrary Steven did crater make8300:04:59,310 --> 00:05:00,810this someone Megalodon Stephen8400:05:00,810 --> 00:05:03,120Dave Jones: crater Yeah. Trentwhich is great name but8500:05:03,120 --> 00:05:04,740transcript dater Ella was just8600:05:04,740 --> 00:05:08,220Adam Curry: I love it. Yeah, Ilove it. And I knew that Mitch8700:05:08,220 --> 00:05:10,290is like, Oh, cool. And Mitch wastrying to get it to work. And I8800:05:10,290 --> 00:05:13,260follow that I love followingthat stuff, by the way, like,8900:05:13,290 --> 00:05:16,020oh, man, I'm glad I'm not Mitch.And so I watched9000:05:16,170 --> 00:05:19,020Dave Jones: Mitch implementstuff. I mean, like, within 109100:05:19,020 --> 00:05:20,520minutes, it's built so yeah, but9200:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,070Adam Curry: I know he was havingsome issues. And I love seeing9300:05:23,070 --> 00:05:26,400that that camaraderie thatbrothership back and forth. And9400:05:26,400 --> 00:05:30,420then all of a sudden, I just seepeople piling on when I see the9500:05:30,450 --> 00:05:34,020the good old, it's gotta beJSON. Like, oh, where's Daniel9600:05:34,020 --> 00:05:37,500J. Lewis? Okay, he's aroundhere. Then there's like, well,9700:05:37,710 --> 00:05:39,720you know, and usually Jamescurriculum will say I9800:05:39,720 --> 00:05:42,240implemented it in five minuteson my own website, and then it9900:05:42,240 --> 00:05:45,000goes back and forth. And thenit's like, should it be 3210000:05:45,000 --> 00:05:48,330words, one word, five words perword. And like, I don't know10100:05:48,330 --> 00:05:52,560what's working for me. The theamount of people who are hard of10200:05:52,560 --> 00:05:55,470hearing and people who speakEnglish as a foreign language10300:05:55,470 --> 00:05:59,400have not complained to me. Sowhat are we doing what's going10400:05:59,400 --> 00:05:59,970on here?10500:06:00,510 --> 00:06:05,490Dave Jones: This all startedwith Carl Bondo. Ah, yes. Okay.10600:06:05,520 --> 00:06:10,650Okay. Got, he said. He said hejust piped in and said, question10700:06:10,650 --> 00:06:13,620about transcripts, havepodcasters landed on a final10800:06:13,620 --> 00:06:17,010transcription format forpodcasting in the wild as the10900:06:17,010 --> 00:06:21,120podcasters jam SRT, with timecodes into their show notes.11000:06:21,570 --> 00:06:26,670While PC people know podcastersuse SRT, start at SRT.11100:06:27,240 --> 00:06:30,840Meanwhile, do HTML, JSON, VTT,and text versions have value in11200:06:30,840 --> 00:06:35,070podcasting. Is it being decidedfor us by big transcript? Or is11300:06:35,070 --> 00:06:38,820this really a UX accessibilityissue? That that was what11400:06:38,820 --> 00:06:42,210launched the, you know, sixposts of this thread.11500:06:42,420 --> 00:06:44,700Adam Curry: But this carriedover from a discussion on GitHub11600:06:44,700 --> 00:06:48,120even because I remember Yes,jumping in that that discussion,11700:06:48,120 --> 00:06:50,790just say, hey, while y'all arearguing, this is what people11800:06:50,790 --> 00:06:54,060will this is the UX people arelooking at. And I just posted a11900:06:54,390 --> 00:06:58,320a Tiktok video to show thepeople who bam bam bam word,12000:06:58,590 --> 00:07:02,430which I find incredibly excitingto do something. Maybe put it12100:07:02,430 --> 00:07:06,750this way. I see. There's athere's got there's a huge12200:07:06,750 --> 00:07:09,990difference between what we useon the back end and what that12300:07:09,990 --> 00:07:14,550does and how and what the userexperience experiences. And12400:07:14,610 --> 00:07:20,070imagine my delight my sheerutter delight. When I saw a pod12500:07:20,070 --> 00:07:23,610friend Martin pop up with acompletely new concept. It looks12600:07:23,610 --> 00:07:27,300like DeVore i can i where youand I are divorced, cannot we're12700:07:27,300 --> 00:07:30,690having a conversation withlittle chat bubbles. Whoa, yes,12800:07:30,690 --> 00:07:33,660this is what I'm talking about.That's what I care about.12900:07:34,230 --> 00:07:37,560Dave Jones: That thing wasbeautiful. That is a killer13000:07:37,560 --> 00:07:38,370interface.13100:07:38,400 --> 00:07:42,210Adam Curry: Yeah. And so Iwonder if there's general13200:07:42,210 --> 00:07:47,160confusion between the two inthis in this technology back end13300:07:47,160 --> 00:07:52,140conversation? Because I for whatI can read. And Macedon doesn't13400:07:52,140 --> 00:07:54,900do threads really great for mefor the way my brain works.13500:07:55,350 --> 00:07:58,140There's what I what I can readand understand it seems like13600:07:58,140 --> 00:08:02,760that there is some flow betweenwhat's how you know what format13700:08:02,760 --> 00:08:08,070it is, and how that surfaced onthe, in the app. And quite13800:08:08,070 --> 00:08:13,740honestly, I find pure closedcaptions or subtitle formats13900:08:13,770 --> 00:08:18,750pretty boring. Because there'snot a there's nothing else going14000:08:18,750 --> 00:08:22,800on on the screen. Now, it's notlike you're watching a movie and14100:08:22,800 --> 00:08:26,430you want kind of the subtitlesor captions out of the way where14200:08:26,430 --> 00:08:29,580they're easy for you to catch atthe bottom of your of your view14300:08:29,580 --> 00:08:32,880and still see everything I mean,that could be hyped up it can be14400:08:32,880 --> 00:08:34,530all kinds of stuff can be donewith that.14500:08:37,169 --> 00:08:39,269Dave Jones: I think it comes Ithink there's two issues here.14600:08:42,119 --> 00:08:50,759Per it's word word for wordtimestamping versus like per14700:08:50,759 --> 00:08:56,279line which is what it which isthe SRT way. So with JSON14800:08:56,279 --> 00:09:01,769transcripts, you can get atimestamp on every single word.14900:09:02,399 --> 00:09:05,999So then then you use it I mean,you can do you can imagine that15000:09:05,999 --> 00:09:09,749made this pass it's the mostpowerful way to go. Because you15100:09:09,749 --> 00:09:15,269can get down to word levelaccuracy with clips and stuff.15200:09:15,269 --> 00:09:19,589So this this would really justlike D script and these do these15300:09:19,589 --> 00:09:27,539digital audio you know these DAWsoftware's will do the will find15400:09:27,569 --> 00:09:32,159help you clip a clip somethingor do Dave voice edits with the15500:09:32,159 --> 00:09:34,559transcript as your as youreditor. Yeah, by15600:09:34,560 --> 00:09:39,450Adam Curry: the way, that's whatpushes way for good old school15700:09:39,450 --> 00:09:43,860waveform What's wrong with you?We use we go ahead,15800:09:44,100 --> 00:09:49,830Dave Jones: you see the matrixwe I get you. But like for, but15900:09:50,010 --> 00:09:52,620that that's the Pat light foryou can imagine for a phone.16000:09:53,130 --> 00:09:55,590You're gonna get you get amobile app here and you're gonna16100:09:55,590 --> 00:10:00,000do editing like you're gonna doa clip in a phone. That's PESA16200:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,320pain in the butt. But if youcould clip it based on the, on16300:10:04,320 --> 00:10:07,380the transcript on the words, oh,that would be so much.16400:10:07,410 --> 00:10:09,570Adam Curry: Okay, but we'realready now. Okay, so we're16500:10:09,570 --> 00:10:13,950already moving on to somethingabout clipping. And16600:10:13,980 --> 00:10:17,310Dave Jones: but I'm just makinga point. Okay, okay, I'm not16700:10:17,310 --> 00:10:20,730moving and I'm moving theconversation, I'm just saying16800:10:20,730 --> 00:10:26,400that like that, that you can seethe power of a transcript, word16900:10:26,400 --> 00:10:30,450for word transcript, to let theapp know at any moment where the17000:10:30,450 --> 00:10:35,370audio is in sync with thetranscript. So that that's like17100:10:35,370 --> 00:10:37,380the most powerful part of it.17200:10:37,410 --> 00:10:39,480Adam Curry: I'm with you. Yes,I'm with you. I got you there.17300:10:39,510 --> 00:10:42,960But of course, no one has thatsystem. But I'm happy to run it17400:10:42,960 --> 00:10:49,980through a a translator. I wouldsay, you know, having multiple17500:10:50,760 --> 00:10:55,860versions, you know, almost likea, like a multiple alternate17600:10:55,860 --> 00:10:59,160enclosures, I think might be amistake at this point in the17700:10:59,340 --> 00:11:04,320mean. It'd be I mean, if we everhave to output three different17800:11:04,320 --> 00:11:07,530versions, and then have threedifferent MBM, you know what I17900:11:07,530 --> 00:11:10,620mean? Like, there's a lot ofstuff that that people want18000:11:10,620 --> 00:11:11,580people to do.18100:11:12,450 --> 00:11:14,580Dave Jones: We'll see that okay.So that's the other that's the18200:11:14,580 --> 00:11:18,120other part of this. That's myjob. You have that word for18300:11:18,120 --> 00:11:23,310word, accuracy debate. And sothen you're going to have people18400:11:23,310 --> 00:11:27,660fall down on either side ofthat, that discussion where they18500:11:27,660 --> 00:11:31,050say, Okay, well, why do we needa whole bunch if word for word18600:11:31,050 --> 00:11:34,920is just simply the best? You canalways go lower resolution you18700:11:34,920 --> 00:11:36,810can't go higher. And there'sanother factor in here too. I'm18800:11:36,810 --> 00:11:47,520gonna throw this up. So the, theJSON. The SRT file has been18900:11:47,520 --> 00:11:49,650problematic, especially for theFrench.19000:11:51,660 --> 00:11:54,540Adam Curry: Stop right there.Who cares if the French Give me19100:11:54,540 --> 00:11:54,900a break?19200:11:58,440 --> 00:11:59,190Dave Jones: How dare you19300:12:01,950 --> 00:12:03,510Adam Curry: take him along withmy con.19400:12:05,190 --> 00:12:10,590Dave Jones: Yes. So that thefridge got really pissed. I19500:12:10,590 --> 00:12:12,570mean, Benjamin Bellamy Well, I19600:12:12,600 --> 00:12:14,610Adam Curry: Well, I didn'trealize I missed this whole.19700:12:15,000 --> 00:12:16,560What happened? Why what what?Well,19800:12:16,560 --> 00:12:20,940Dave Jones: because because he'supset about the 32 the 32 word19900:12:21,600 --> 00:12:28,560limit. And SRT file and this soso SRT, but,20000:12:29,160 --> 00:12:31,080Adam Curry: but it's not amatter of the language is just a20100:12:31,080 --> 00:12:32,370matter of the French.20200:12:33,240 --> 00:12:37,170Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, it's amatter I'm using Benjamin as a20300:12:37,200 --> 00:12:39,810stand in for quote, the French.20400:12:41,340 --> 00:12:43,320Adam Curry: I didn't know if itwas a language thing. Okay. I20500:12:43,320 --> 00:12:46,110got the friend ever bent out ofshape. Basically, that's20600:12:46,140 --> 00:12:47,520basically their culture. Okay.20700:12:47,610 --> 00:12:51,540Dave Jones: Yes. If you know oneFrench guy, you know all Wow.20800:12:54,150 --> 00:12:56,190It's like the it's like the whatthe reggae.20900:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,170Adam Curry: crack open a BudLight. All right. Let's go.21000:13:02,940 --> 00:13:06,570Dave Jones: I love you,Benjamin. But see. So the the21100:13:06,630 --> 00:13:12,300the SRT has a line length? Yeah.And because it stands, it just21200:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,650does per line. And so Benjaminwas saying he doesn't like the21300:13:16,650 --> 00:13:22,860fact that is a 32. word linelength, because it doesn't take21400:13:22,860 --> 00:13:28,020advantage doesn't like, takeadvantage of other languages21500:13:28,020 --> 00:13:31,410with longer, longer work. Yourcharacter says more do Yes,21600:13:31,440 --> 00:13:34,530sure. So which is valid, whichis valid, and then But then the21700:13:34,530 --> 00:13:37,740app guys came back and they werelike, hey, that's fine and all21800:13:37,740 --> 00:13:41,610but we have to be able to fitthis thing on the screen, like21900:13:41,610 --> 00:13:47,220one line at a time. And if youhave 128 words Ulsan you get you22000:13:47,220 --> 00:13:49,860get this tiny little taste, youcan't see it right on the22100:13:49,860 --> 00:13:53,520screen. So the word for wordaccuracy within the JSON22200:13:53,520 --> 00:13:56,940transcript format, lets youavoid that entire debate. You22300:13:56,940 --> 00:13:58,620just fit as many words as youwant.22400:13:59,610 --> 00:14:01,770Adam Curry: Oh, yeah, thatsounds that sounds reasonable.22500:14:02,040 --> 00:14:02,460Yes.22600:14:02,490 --> 00:14:05,100Dave Jones: So you got two waysin which the JSON file format is22700:14:05,100 --> 00:14:12,330superior. But at the same time,you know, you you have this22800:14:12,360 --> 00:14:17,850other debate, which is gettingmixed in which, which is almost22900:14:17,850 --> 00:14:22,590like subtle asides. It's likeunder the covers here, which is23000:14:23,310 --> 00:14:29,220the should the namespace dictatethe format? Or just the23100:14:29,220 --> 00:14:30,030delivery?23200:14:30,810 --> 00:14:33,030Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Uh, well,I can give you my immediate23300:14:34,890 --> 00:14:38,490thinking is, it should notdictate the format at all.23400:14:39,000 --> 00:14:39,510Agreed.23500:14:39,990 --> 00:14:43,950Dave Jones: I agree. That's thedate the protocol, the protocol23600:14:43,950 --> 00:14:46,170for delivery, not the finalformat of the theory.23700:14:46,440 --> 00:14:49,170Adam Curry: Agree. Agreed. Nothow it would be like saying you23800:14:49,290 --> 00:14:49,620it would23900:14:49,620 --> 00:14:53,700Dave Jones: be like thenamespace declaring which audio24000:14:53,700 --> 00:14:56,550format you need to use rightenclosure, right. Got it. Got24100:14:56,550 --> 00:15:00,060it. But I think that's becausethat was part of the debate. as24200:15:00,060 --> 00:15:03,360well as like, oh, you know, whydo we need three of three of24300:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,340these formats supported in thein the namespace? I think, you24400:15:08,340 --> 00:15:10,380know, really, there's alwaysgoing to be new formats and24500:15:10,380 --> 00:15:14,250things over over time. We shouldprobably that we should probably24600:15:14,250 --> 00:15:16,320make it more clear in thenamespace documentation that24700:15:16,350 --> 00:15:21,030those are examples. Notlimitation. Okay.24800:15:21,030 --> 00:15:22,830Adam Curry: So a couplequestions, some practical24900:15:22,830 --> 00:15:25,710things, because, you know, ofcourse, this has been this25000:15:25,710 --> 00:15:28,410should have probably been done along time ago, this conversation25100:15:28,410 --> 00:15:31,860because a lot of people'sprocesses and things are set up.25200:15:31,860 --> 00:15:34,980And I'm, you know, I'm not sureabout everyone, but I know that25300:15:34,980 --> 00:15:38,070I'm pretty set in my ways. I'vegot stuff going, if I have to25400:15:38,070 --> 00:15:40,380change, what will a break? Youknow, there's all these25500:15:40,380 --> 00:15:43,080questions. And then does thatmean? Oh, just to make sure I25600:15:43,080 --> 00:15:45,570got to put four different onesin this is this is what I'm25700:15:45,570 --> 00:15:48,150always worried about? Yep.25800:15:50,700 --> 00:15:54,240Dave Jones: Well, I mean, thelong time ago thing like this,25900:15:54,360 --> 00:15:58,350this is another reason why it'sgood on occasion to slow down26000:15:58,680 --> 00:16:02,670and go at a slower pace. Becausesometimes you can't anticipate26100:16:02,670 --> 00:16:05,490these sorts of things over time.Now, the line length thing has26200:16:05,490 --> 00:16:10,080been debated for a while. Butthen like some sometimes there26300:16:10,140 --> 00:16:14,550crops up a certain strain ofthinking down the line, let's26400:16:14,550 --> 00:16:16,830just say six months down theline of a thing that you're26500:16:16,830 --> 00:16:20,760doing. It's like, Huh, well, nowthat's an interesting thing that26600:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,320I never thought of. So like,sometimes you I mean, I guess26700:16:25,320 --> 00:16:28,020speed here can be is an enemy aswell.26800:16:28,050 --> 00:16:31,140Adam Curry: Well, just so youknow, speed does not kill the26900:16:31,260 --> 00:16:38,100sudden lack of speed. That'swhat I would I would caution27000:16:38,100 --> 00:16:41,760people then. The one thing Idon't like when I see this27100:16:41,760 --> 00:16:45,390debate, is when someone says,Well, you know, only half a27200:16:45,390 --> 00:16:48,570percent of all podcasts actuallyhave transcripts. So what are we27300:16:48,570 --> 00:16:51,930talking about? Yeah. And that'sa very accurate depiction of the27400:16:51,930 --> 00:16:53,220voice whoever that was.27500:16:53,790 --> 00:16:56,490Dave Jones: I've heard that guy.Yeah. Yeah, I know that guy. And27600:16:56,520 --> 00:16:57,210that always27700:16:57,210 --> 00:17:00,630Adam Curry: find is that's sucha that's such a buzzkill. When27800:17:00,630 --> 00:17:02,820someone does that, it's like,come on.27900:17:03,300 --> 00:17:05,130Dave Jones: What I always thinkabout when I hear people say28000:17:05,130 --> 00:17:10,230there's only only such and suchpercent of podcasts do X I'm not28100:17:10,230 --> 00:17:13,770thinking is always immediatelywill only only, like less than28200:17:13,770 --> 00:17:15,7201% of podcasts are any goodanyway.28300:17:17,250 --> 00:17:19,230Adam Curry: And you're listeningto it right here. Yeah.28400:17:21,839 --> 00:17:25,199Dave Jones: So I mean, like,okay. Oh,28500:17:25,260 --> 00:17:29,130Adam Curry: okay. All right. SoI guess the real question is,28600:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,820well, maybe we should bring inour in our boardroom guests,28700:17:32,820 --> 00:17:36,210because this is automaticallygoing to flow it over into some28800:17:36,210 --> 00:17:39,630other conversations and theyhave some more new stuff that28900:17:39,630 --> 00:17:44,700they've deployed for a whilethat that, obviously, where am I29000:17:44,700 --> 00:17:48,930here? That needs to bediscussed, because it's also29100:17:48,930 --> 00:17:52,440kind of exciting stuff. Andthey've been in the boardroom29200:17:52,440 --> 00:17:58,200before. It's very nice to havethem back. They are without a29300:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,190doubt one of the biggestsupporters of podcasting 2.0 The29400:18:02,190 --> 00:18:05,310entire project from the get go.Ladies and gentlemen, please29500:18:05,310 --> 00:18:08,520welcome two esteemed Gentlemen,gentlemen. The Honorable29600:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,490misfits, Kevin Finn and TomRossi from Buzzsprout.29700:18:12,360 --> 00:18:18,150Unknown: Heck, yeah. This whole,like scrape onions on this29800:18:18,150 --> 00:18:18,510stuff.29900:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,020Adam Curry: We didn't bring anyhere for opinions just to30000:18:22,020 --> 00:18:22,410promote.30100:18:24,840 --> 00:18:27,690Dave Jones: I mean, it's fair tofair to categorize you guys as30200:18:28,560 --> 00:18:32,850ambassadors from the fortress offreedom. I love it. I love it.30300:18:33,630 --> 00:18:36,300Of course, you know, fortress offreedom, which is in the30400:18:36,300 --> 00:18:41,610basement of the Hall of Justice.So yes. So I mean, what are you30500:18:41,640 --> 00:18:43,350what is your yelling opinion?30600:18:43,950 --> 00:18:46,650Unknown: Oh, my gosh, well,first shadow ban. I'm trying to30700:18:46,650 --> 00:18:48,720tell you the word over and overagain. I gotta get it. Okay. Oh,30800:18:48,720 --> 00:18:48,900yeah.30900:18:49,320 --> 00:18:53,010Adam Curry: I don't think shadowban. I disagree that it's not31000:18:53,010 --> 00:18:55,830shadow banned. I've just I'm notplaying along with the with the31100:18:55,830 --> 00:18:58,500money game. So I getdeprioritized.31200:18:58,830 --> 00:19:03,600Unknown: I agree. I just wantedto help. Dave is looking for31300:19:03,600 --> 00:19:09,030Thank you, even if it was thewrong word. Yes. Um, so I got31400:19:09,060 --> 00:19:12,720the transcript stuff. Um, Ithink you're31500:19:13,470 --> 00:19:15,690telling the origin of the 32character limit?31600:19:16,830 --> 00:19:18,120Oh, you know where it came from?31700:19:18,150 --> 00:19:20,430Adam Curry: Now, you gotta youguys did transcripts very early31800:19:20,430 --> 00:19:23,220on. I mean, you've supported thenamespace and everything from31900:19:23,250 --> 00:19:26,640you know, almost from the getgo. So I'm not quite sure if it32000:19:26,640 --> 00:19:29,220was the chicken or the egg. Iknow that all of a sudden, I was32100:19:29,220 --> 00:19:35,220using otter.ai, which is reallyreally weak. in its in its, you32200:19:35,220 --> 00:19:39,480know, in its AI capability. ButI'm just using it it kind of32300:19:39,480 --> 00:19:42,480works. I know the workflow, butI think it's it's all I've32400:19:42,480 --> 00:19:45,240always had put SRT was that notthe genesis of what we were32500:19:45,240 --> 00:19:45,690using?32600:19:46,139 --> 00:19:48,599Unknown: It is? Yeah, you'reexactly right. And that is where32700:19:48,599 --> 00:19:50,999the 32 character limit came inhere because that was their32800:19:50,999 --> 00:19:54,809default when you exported an SRTfrom otter. Their defaults were32900:19:54,809 --> 00:19:58,589two lines. 32 characters, right.So there's no standard around33000:19:58,589 --> 00:20:02,459that you can make an SRT 64whatever number you want, and as33100:20:02,459 --> 00:20:04,679many lines as you want, butbecause there was no standard33200:20:04,679 --> 00:20:06,629way to choose something, and alot of people were using audit33300:20:06,629 --> 00:20:08,729at the time, so we just said,Let's just use whatever their33400:20:08,729 --> 00:20:09,449default is.33500:20:10,380 --> 00:20:14,490Okay? And Dave made a reallygood point, which is you can33600:20:14,520 --> 00:20:18,930always go to a lower fidelity,but you can't go to a higher33700:20:18,930 --> 00:20:24,120fidelity. And so that was, youknow, the issue with, you know,33800:20:24,120 --> 00:20:28,110some of the conversation likethe JSON allows you to just you33900:20:28,110 --> 00:20:31,650could do it per word, or youcould do it per phrase. It just34000:20:31,650 --> 00:20:34,050gives you a higher fidelitytranscript. And I think from34100:20:34,050 --> 00:20:38,100there, you can go to any SRT. Sofor Buzzsprout, we can go to any34200:20:38,160 --> 00:20:42,270SRT, as long as we have a highenough fidelity transcript to34300:20:42,300 --> 00:20:43,410you know, to get there.34400:20:43,740 --> 00:20:47,220Adam Curry: Well, is SRT,limited to the 32 characters. Is34500:20:47,220 --> 00:20:48,060that the is that the34600:20:48,060 --> 00:20:51,000Unknown: problem? No, like Kevinsaid, there's, there's no,34700:20:51,240 --> 00:20:53,460there's no standard for you how34800:20:54,390 --> 00:20:56,190Dave Jones: the problem though,here's the problem that the34900:20:56,190 --> 00:21:00,600student the SRT file itself, iscan be anything but in the35000:21:00,600 --> 00:21:05,940namespace, it says, SRT, Maxcharacters per line 32. Grand35100:21:05,940 --> 00:21:08,910gotcha, right. And this, this iswhat helpful35200:21:08,940 --> 00:21:12,030Unknown: to be able to providesome sort of structure for app35300:21:12,030 --> 00:21:14,910developers, so they would knowwhat to expect. If they download35400:21:14,910 --> 00:21:18,210one SRT and 64 characters inline, and then they downloaded35500:21:18,210 --> 00:21:20,940Another one had 32, then theircode becomes much more35600:21:20,940 --> 00:21:23,010complicated trying to figure outhow to display this stuff,35700:21:23,370 --> 00:21:24,090Adam Curry: right?35800:21:24,390 --> 00:21:26,580Dave Jones: I'm just gonna wejust namespace Should we just go35900:21:26,580 --> 00:21:30,270in there and say in justparenthetical Reto says Max36000:21:30,270 --> 00:21:34,200characters for line 32, inparentheses out to the side,36100:21:34,680 --> 00:21:35,610just a suggestion.36200:21:38,100 --> 00:21:42,300Adam Curry: I'm looking at otterand otter, you can output one to36300:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,89010 lines as your output option,and Max characters five to 200.36400:21:46,890 --> 00:21:49,950So they don't even get you tothe one word resolution.36500:21:50,820 --> 00:21:53,370Unknown: Know that theirdefault? So their standard, if36600:21:53,370 --> 00:21:56,160you haven't customized it beforetheir default was 32. And two,36700:21:56,190 --> 00:21:59,670yes. Correct. And then you canchange it from there. Yeah. And36800:21:59,670 --> 00:22:00,060so36900:22:00,960 --> 00:22:05,400the transcripts we're seeing noware much higher fidelity down to37000:22:05,400 --> 00:22:08,730the to the word, and that'swhere the JSON makes more sense,37100:22:08,760 --> 00:22:12,240it's a better format for beingable to share transcripts.37200:22:12,900 --> 00:22:15,870Adam Curry: All right, but sothen, so all I'm saying is,37300:22:16,110 --> 00:22:19,530there's no JSON output on otter,so I'm gonna have to make a37400:22:19,530 --> 00:22:23,280change, I'm happy to do. But youknow, one little change, you37500:22:23,280 --> 00:22:26,070know, you do a couple of degreeson the rudder, and this whole37600:22:26,070 --> 00:22:29,310ship has to go and it takes along time for people to get into37700:22:29,310 --> 00:22:32,070it. So I'm just saying cautionof whatever we decide, or37800:22:32,070 --> 00:22:33,300whatever we want to get to.37900:22:33,929 --> 00:22:35,819Unknown: Well, that's the beautyof the way the specs written is38000:22:35,819 --> 00:22:38,279you can, you can do them all. Soif you go to a Buzzsprout38100:22:38,279 --> 00:22:41,579transcript here, you'll see themin any format we can support. So38200:22:41,579 --> 00:22:44,849even if you upload an SRT, we'llmake it available as an SRT and38300:22:44,849 --> 00:22:45,659as JSON.38400:22:46,290 --> 00:22:48,270Adam Curry: No, while you guysare just Goody goodies of the38500:22:48,270 --> 00:22:49,080class, aren't you?38600:22:50,670 --> 00:22:53,130Unknown: Hey, I thought this ishumblebrag time.38700:22:56,070 --> 00:22:59,520Dave Jones: So who does who doesword for word JSON? Like what?38800:22:59,910 --> 00:23:00,330Plus38900:23:01,980 --> 00:23:05,130Unknown: descript is one that weintegrate with? Currently, that39000:23:05,130 --> 00:23:06,990gives us the per word?39100:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,350And you can also get out ofwhisper? Well, whisper No,39200:23:10,350 --> 00:23:12,900that's, yeah, I mean, you canjust run whisper on your own39300:23:14,100 --> 00:23:18,780computer and punch out in JSON.So I mean, AI is changing39400:23:18,810 --> 00:23:22,440transcription. So like otterRev. For years, they were just39500:23:22,440 --> 00:23:25,530looking at the waveform itselfand trying to pick up like the39600:23:25,530 --> 00:23:30,600audio artifacts and figure outwords from them. And now AI is39700:23:30,600 --> 00:23:33,360improving upon that, because nowthey can use once they39800:23:33,360 --> 00:23:35,940transcribe the first 10 minutesof an hour long episode, they39900:23:35,940 --> 00:23:38,280can look at the first 10 minutesand start guessing what words40000:23:38,280 --> 00:23:40,140are coming next. Even if theartifacts are a little bit40100:23:40,140 --> 00:23:44,190messy, or the the audio is notreally cleaned. So AI is helping40200:23:44,190 --> 00:23:47,610transcription get more accurate.And that's what we're seeing40300:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,010with things like whisper andstuff like that. And the output40400:23:50,010 --> 00:23:52,620from those, like, when you go toa web service or something,40500:23:52,620 --> 00:23:55,440you'll be limited by the UI. Butif you download install, whisper40600:23:55,440 --> 00:23:57,870on your own servers, run ityourself, you can get whatever40700:23:57,870 --> 00:23:58,710you want out, but I40800:23:58,710 --> 00:24:01,860Adam Curry: say just commondenominator. I would say the40900:24:01,860 --> 00:24:04,230most people are just going touse whatever their their41000:24:04,230 --> 00:24:07,800podcasting host uses. I mean, ifI'm if I'm completely41100:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,890independent, which I am, thenthat's that's my issue to go41200:24:10,890 --> 00:24:13,410figure that out. Right? I mean,that's, that's just how it41300:24:13,410 --> 00:24:16,050works. If you either go withwith the big flow and the big41400:24:16,050 --> 00:24:19,560ships, or you do a jeroni, andyou roll along, however you want41500:24:19,560 --> 00:24:23,640to. So I just thought I justthought it was interesting, this41600:24:23,640 --> 00:24:29,460long, long thread like Oh, okay.And it really we don't have in41700:24:29,460 --> 00:24:33,120this group. We don't have theapp developers. And what I want41800:24:33,120 --> 00:24:36,570to see is what Martin was doing.I know how do we I guess that41900:24:36,600 --> 00:24:40,770the answer is JSON word forword. That's the most flexible42000:24:40,980 --> 00:24:45,300for app developers and peoplewho make experiences to have42100:24:45,300 --> 00:24:49,080that resolution and they canalways go up or go down or42200:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,480whatever they want for whateverthe app however they want to42300:24:51,480 --> 00:24:54,930display it. Yeah, that's what Ithink. All right, yeah.42400:24:59,610 --> 00:25:01,680Dave Jones: Israel Apart from soclose,42500:25:01,980 --> 00:25:02,880Adam Curry: issue closed,42600:25:03,300 --> 00:25:06,450Dave Jones: what I'm going toopen it again with me for42700:25:06,450 --> 00:25:12,840another reason musics match thiscompany, they click, they seem42800:25:12,840 --> 00:25:18,690to have done their luck involvedwith lyrics and stuff in USI X,42900:25:18,810 --> 00:25:25,740ma tch musiXmatch. They, I knowthat they are contacting podcast43000:25:25,770 --> 00:25:32,670apps to try to get them tointegrate their transcripts into43100:25:32,670 --> 00:25:37,590the app. And I guess I'm alittle conflicted. I mean,43200:25:37,590 --> 00:25:40,650there's some because the thetranscript is not in the RSS43300:25:40,650 --> 00:25:44,850feed. So this would be comingfrom a third party service. And43400:25:45,480 --> 00:25:51,570which initially made me I don'tknow, I didn't like that. But I43500:25:51,570 --> 00:25:54,870don't know that I necessarilysee a huge problem with it easy,43600:25:54,930 --> 00:25:58,560either. I don't know. Yeah, asyou may have thoughts on that,43700:25:58,590 --> 00:26:01,950because I don't like the factthat it's not in the sound.43800:26:02,310 --> 00:26:04,350Adam Curry: That to me isexactly the same as calling43900:26:04,590 --> 00:26:08,190YouTube podcasts. There's nofeed going in no feed coming44000:26:08,190 --> 00:26:13,680out. Now. I'm against that it'soutside the spec. Yeah. Okay.44100:26:13,860 --> 00:26:15,990That's, and I understand, Ithink it's great that they're44200:26:15,990 --> 00:26:21,630offering that. But why do theywhy? I'm not quite sure. First44300:26:21,630 --> 00:26:24,270of all, what guess what's theirbusiness model? How do they what44400:26:24,270 --> 00:26:27,000how does that work? I mean, thatI presume they're not offering44500:26:27,000 --> 00:26:27,780it for free.44600:26:28,800 --> 00:26:30,960Dave Jones: Yeah, that and thatwas my thing is I don't I don't44700:26:30,960 --> 00:26:33,630understand where the they'rethere. They seem to be VC44800:26:33,630 --> 00:26:39,120funded. And so I don't know whatthe play is. And I know that I44900:26:39,120 --> 00:26:42,960would rather that if there wouldmake more sense and be more in45000:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,800the spirit of, of openness, ifthey would do integrations with45100:26:46,980 --> 00:26:49,980with hosting companies, if theywant to provide that service,45200:26:49,980 --> 00:26:52,980and then just get to things intothe feed the proper way.45300:26:54,660 --> 00:26:58,770Adam Curry: Yeah, I mean, thisis this is exactly where it45400:26:58,770 --> 00:27:03,480comes down to with openpodcasting versus everything45500:27:03,480 --> 00:27:09,060else. And, and particularly ifit's, to me, it sounds like45600:27:09,090 --> 00:27:12,180he's, he found it, okay, we'regoing to get as much market45700:27:12,180 --> 00:27:16,230share as we can. And so I cansee where it's very attractive45800:27:16,230 --> 00:27:19,500to a podcast app to havetranscripts for everything that45900:27:19,500 --> 00:27:24,330runs through their engine, whichis fine. But if I come up, if I46000:27:24,330 --> 00:27:27,960come along and say, Here's mytranscript, and here's how I'd46100:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,850like you to show it, then Ithink that needs to be46200:27:29,850 --> 00:27:33,630respected. Let's put it thatway. Yeah. And then you'll find46300:27:33,630 --> 00:27:36,000out when the bill comes, thebill always comes from the VC46400:27:36,000 --> 00:27:37,800guys one way or the other, thebill will come.46500:27:39,870 --> 00:27:43,530Dave Jones: Nathan said thatthey do host integration. But46600:27:44,040 --> 00:27:47,520you and I know that but me elitein at least one case that I know46700:27:47,520 --> 00:27:51,840of they were they were talkingdirectly to the app developer to46800:27:51,840 --> 00:27:56,250say, hey, we can provide yourtranscripts for, for for46900:27:56,250 --> 00:28:00,120episodes that are not that don'thave a transcript in the feed. I47000:28:00,120 --> 00:28:00,330guess47100:28:01,050 --> 00:28:06,480Adam Curry: I can see that asbeing valid. But beware. If I47200:28:06,510 --> 00:28:11,400let's say I didn't have atranscript in my feed, then now47300:28:11,430 --> 00:28:16,410in app a, there's transcriptrunning and then brought to you47400:28:16,410 --> 00:28:19,290by Bud Light, you know, then,okay, you can then you're gonna47500:28:19,290 --> 00:28:20,010piss me off.47600:28:22,740 --> 00:28:25,530Dave Jones: This train script,it's like, it's like on a sport.47700:28:25,530 --> 00:28:28,200It's like on sports when theyyou know, the end zone is47800:28:28,200 --> 00:28:29,580brought to you by every niche,right?47900:28:29,730 --> 00:28:32,640Adam Curry: I mean, that's,that's where we just got to be48000:28:32,640 --> 00:28:36,000careful. That's all No, but Idon't see your problem. In48100:28:36,000 --> 00:28:39,930general, if if an app wants tohave transcripts for all of48200:28:39,930 --> 00:28:42,960their I mean, for a whilethey're out and don't just48300:28:42,960 --> 00:28:46,500fountain even show transcriptsat all, I can't find them. I48400:28:46,500 --> 00:28:47,850don't think they showtranscripts.48500:28:49,110 --> 00:28:49,860Dave Jones: didn't know48600:28:50,100 --> 00:28:51,720Adam Curry: they were doingtheir own thing if you wanted to48700:28:51,720 --> 00:28:54,510clip and then you'd have to waittwo hours for the transcript, a48800:28:54,510 --> 00:28:57,750finished lease with my shows myoverly long shows, and then you48900:28:57,750 --> 00:29:01,380can get a transcript and theycould clip it at that. I don't49000:29:01,380 --> 00:29:05,730know where that went, if that'sstill around or not. But I can49100:29:05,730 --> 00:29:09,480see where a service like thatmakes it attractive. Just please49200:29:10,110 --> 00:29:13,770respect with respect to sourceof truth if my feed comes along49300:29:13,800 --> 00:29:17,010and and I have my transcript inthere, you've got to respect it.49400:29:17,280 --> 00:29:18,870Dave Jones: Kill it. Yeah. Killthat kill the49500:29:18,990 --> 00:29:20,190Adam Curry: guilty thing? Yeah.49600:29:20,220 --> 00:29:26,520Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. Itdoes. Kevin does. Does49700:29:26,520 --> 00:29:28,860Buzzsprout have the Obamas yethave y'all had a shot at them? I49800:29:28,860 --> 00:29:29,400mean, they seem to be49900:29:32,250 --> 00:29:34,890Adam Curry: by the way, if I canjust say no, I just want50000:29:34,890 --> 00:29:37,080everyone to understand what kindof deal this is. This seems to50100:29:37,080 --> 00:29:40,350be some kind of confusion. Thisis a library deal. Right? This50200:29:40,350 --> 00:29:43,050is the old stuff. This isnothing new is now the Obamas50300:29:43,530 --> 00:29:46,050are creating new stuff and it'sgoing to be on a cast. This is50400:29:46,050 --> 00:29:50,970all the old stuff. Oh, I didn'trealize that. Yes, yes. And I50500:29:50,970 --> 00:29:53,640think eat and they they stillhave their audible deal.50600:29:53,640 --> 00:29:57,840Audible. has, you know, we'llhave them exclusive for X amount50700:29:57,840 --> 00:30:02,370of time and then a cast can sellthem in the on the open market.50800:30:02,970 --> 00:30:06,930So, the Bruce Springsteen andBarack Obama are not going to50900:30:06,930 --> 00:30:10,020work for a cash add money. Okay.I'm just going to tell you that51000:30:10,020 --> 00:30:10,680right now.51100:30:12,599 --> 00:30:15,179Dave Jones: I have to correctJames on that as he made a51200:30:15,179 --> 00:30:18,689mention that this is it's notabout money it's about they just51300:30:18,689 --> 00:30:23,849want to have openness to gettheir ideas out there. I can51400:30:23,849 --> 00:30:27,809tell you that Barack Obamathrows $100,000 birthday51500:30:27,809 --> 00:30:32,819parties. Bleep guys, this isdefinitely about money. Is this51600:30:32,849 --> 00:30:36,869the show was a dog to man. It'sjust horrible. I'm sure they're51700:30:36,869 --> 00:30:40,199shuffling around because nobodywants it. Well, I wouldn't51800:30:40,200 --> 00:30:41,490Adam Curry: want to say thatback to you. The Hollywood51900:30:41,490 --> 00:30:44,610Reporter had had a pretty good,pretty good report on it. And52000:30:44,610 --> 00:30:46,920they said Higher Groundproduction company founded by52100:30:46,920 --> 00:30:50,460Brock, Michelle Obama has struckits latest audio deal with52200:30:50,460 --> 00:30:53,220podcasting platform, a cast acast will handle ad sales and52300:30:53,220 --> 00:30:59,100distribution for hire groundslibrary of podcasts. So it's52400:30:59,130 --> 00:31:02,190it's all the stuff that wasalready on Spotify, et cetera,52500:31:02,190 --> 00:31:02,790et cetera.52600:31:03,360 --> 00:31:05,460Unknown: Was it exclusive toSpotify before this deal?52700:31:06,870 --> 00:31:10,200Adam Curry: Yeah, well, yes.Except Michelle Obama, they ran52800:31:10,200 --> 00:31:12,960into such problems with fillingthe inventory, that they52900:31:12,960 --> 00:31:15,900actually opened that up for awhile that Michelle Obama53000:31:15,900 --> 00:31:20,040podcast was certainly availableeverywhere. If it's not still is53100:31:20,040 --> 00:31:23,610it was because it's boring. Butyeah.53200:31:24,389 --> 00:31:27,299Unknown: Well, yeah. So as weprobably should look at it as a53300:31:27,299 --> 00:31:31,019win for open podcasting, right,is that they tried to keep it in53400:31:31,019 --> 00:31:33,749a closed ecosystem, and itwasn't able to accomplish what53500:31:33,749 --> 00:31:36,929they wanted, or whatever thatmight be. And so now they're53600:31:36,929 --> 00:31:39,719coming out into the, to thebetter waters that we promote53700:31:39,719 --> 00:31:40,379all the time.53800:31:40,770 --> 00:31:43,620Adam Curry: Podcast, ifanything, it's a huge, well,53900:31:43,620 --> 00:31:46,680it's great PR for a cast. I'msure they can use it. And that's54000:31:46,680 --> 00:31:48,630why they're spinning it kind oflike yeah, oh, yeah. They're54100:31:48,630 --> 00:31:51,750coming to us now. Okay. Yeah,the library has been dropped off54200:31:51,750 --> 00:31:56,280at the front door in a in acardboard box. But at the same54300:31:56,280 --> 00:32:05,340time, it's a PR disaster forSpotify. I think. Yeah. I don't54400:32:05,340 --> 00:32:07,860Unknown: think they lost reallynot a win for Spotify, because54500:32:07,860 --> 00:32:10,440it shows that Spotify wasn'tthey had this great asset that54600:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,510they weren't able to capitalizeon.54700:32:12,720 --> 00:32:17,280Adam Curry: Yeah, I guess whatdo you need every part of the54800:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,040ecosystem to make money onadvertising? As far as I'm54900:32:20,040 --> 00:32:24,690concerned? I think you need morethan just one player, which is55000:32:24,690 --> 00:32:27,210what what their intent was allalong. And that didn't work. And55100:32:27,210 --> 00:32:30,840then everybody bailed withparachutes made of various55200:32:30,840 --> 00:32:34,650degrees of metal. And we'll seehow they do.55300:32:36,270 --> 00:32:38,760Dave Jones: All right, Tom, Iget we get talking about open55400:32:39,450 --> 00:32:44,640subscriptions. Subscriptions.Yes. So Buzzsprout, bus routes,55500:32:44,640 --> 00:32:47,310doing subscriptions. But manyou've been talking about?55600:32:48,150 --> 00:32:52,200Conversely, you know, convertingwhat you've got to something55700:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,490open that is implementable as aspec across across anybody who55800:32:56,490 --> 00:32:57,240wants to do it.55900:32:58,380 --> 00:33:00,930Unknown: Yeah. Am I wrong? Or isthis this is namespace talk,56000:33:00,930 --> 00:33:01,260right?56100:33:01,980 --> 00:33:03,450Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Oops,namespace talk.56200:33:04,500 --> 00:33:07,500Adam Curry: Excuse me here, butit's not hot namespace talk.56300:33:07,500 --> 00:33:10,380Okay, there's four dudes here.If you're not going to get no56400:33:10,380 --> 00:33:14,940hot namespace toggle single forme. Let's see it. Let's see how56500:33:14,940 --> 00:33:17,370heated you can get it. And thenwe'll roll that in.56600:33:20,040 --> 00:33:21,510Dave Jones: Given hands, and now56700:33:21,510 --> 00:33:24,840Unknown: it's time for some hotnamespace56800:33:25,290 --> 00:33:27,090Dave Jones: have been turned onthe Aural Exciter? I don't know56900:33:27,090 --> 00:33:37,680much. Let's see. So the the specthat we sort of had in mind that57000:33:37,680 --> 00:33:41,970we've been rolling around withfor a while ended up being very57100:33:41,970 --> 00:33:47,250similar to what y'all did. Andso you know, the ideas being57200:33:47,250 --> 00:33:51,750that you would have a, you'dhave a single feed, and the feed57300:33:51,750 --> 00:33:55,260would have the subscriptioncontent in it. So you don't have57400:33:55,260 --> 00:33:59,580to have like two feeds like aprivate feed that nobody's, you57500:33:59,580 --> 00:34:04,440know, like, you know,everything's in the feed. And57600:34:04,470 --> 00:34:07,170anyways, y'all y'all y'all didit in. I think the only real57700:34:07,170 --> 00:34:11,520difference really was that wewere thinking more in terms of57800:34:11,520 --> 00:34:15,690infrastructure, y'all is yousort of took a web, sort of a57900:34:15,690 --> 00:34:18,510web first handshake typeapproach. Did you want to like58000:34:18,510 --> 00:34:20,970run through it real quick on atechnical level, and just say58100:34:20,970 --> 00:34:23,340what exactly y'all did and howit works?58200:34:25,020 --> 00:34:27,450Unknown: Sure, sure. The way theway that Buzzsprout58300:34:27,450 --> 00:34:32,340subscriptions works, we actuallyput the premium content in the58400:34:32,340 --> 00:34:36,600RSS feed with you know, kind ofas like a little teaser of58500:34:36,630 --> 00:34:38,970there's an there's an episodethat you could get access to if58600:34:38,970 --> 00:34:45,000you wanted to support the showand get access to it. Then you58700:34:45,000 --> 00:34:50,160can hit that same RSS feed butpass in a token, or you could58800:34:50,160 --> 00:34:53,460think of it as just it is aprivate RSS feed. But the URL is58900:34:53,460 --> 00:34:56,370the same as the normal RSS, butit also includes a token to59000:34:56,370 --> 00:34:59,370uniquely identify the listener.So that way you can verify that59100:34:59,370 --> 00:35:02,130they have an act to asubscription, and then all of59200:35:02,130 --> 00:35:05,490that content will be unlocked.So you can see it all in your59300:35:05,490 --> 00:35:10,440private RSS feed. So what youand I were talking about was how59400:35:10,440 --> 00:35:14,160can we make this more of astandard that other podcast59500:35:14,160 --> 00:35:17,520hosts could follow, and alsopodcast players could take59600:35:17,520 --> 00:35:19,920advantage of. So that way, youknow, it's not a great59700:35:19,920 --> 00:35:25,140experience right now, in Appletwo, you know, take that RSS59800:35:25,140 --> 00:35:27,990feed and drop it in, like, wecould make it better, we could59900:35:27,990 --> 00:35:31,050make it easier through just alink right from the RSS feed60000:35:31,050 --> 00:35:34,020that takes you directly toverify that you have ownership60100:35:34,050 --> 00:35:36,270or that you have a private RSSfeed, and then it redirects you60200:35:36,270 --> 00:35:39,930back to that private RSS feed.So that's kind of what what what60300:35:39,930 --> 00:35:40,860we've been talking about.60400:35:41,280 --> 00:35:44,250Dave Jones: So here was myexperience. The first time I did60500:35:44,250 --> 00:35:47,100this the first time I tried itwith a with a with a Buzzsprout60600:35:47,100 --> 00:35:52,920subscription feed. And the thingis, I was on cast ematic. And it60700:35:52,920 --> 00:35:58,140was pod news, upon Us WeeklyReview. So this was not it60800:35:58,140 --> 00:36:01,050wasn't subscription, but they itwasn't like private, private60900:36:01,050 --> 00:36:05,880content that you had to unlock.But it was subscription enabled.61000:36:06,150 --> 00:36:12,810So what had happened was Jameshad put the subscription page61100:36:12,840 --> 00:36:18,180URL for the web, sort of webbased subscription mechanism, he61200:36:18,180 --> 00:36:21,750had put that into the fundingtag. So at the bottom of cast61300:36:21,750 --> 00:36:26,550ematic, when I'm listening tothe episode, Franco has the61400:36:26,550 --> 00:36:31,140little funding tag icon there.So I tap it, I didn't even61500:36:31,140 --> 00:36:33,720really know that this was goingto happen. I'm just kind of like61600:36:33,720 --> 00:36:37,560intuitively, just trying thisfigure this out. I hit the61700:36:37,560 --> 00:36:43,380funding Tag button. It opens aweb view, a web view in Casta61800:36:43,380 --> 00:36:46,140Matic, and there's thesubscription page right there.61900:36:46,920 --> 00:36:49,170And it's like, you know, howmuch do you want to donate? Do62000:36:49,170 --> 00:36:51,990you want to donate three bucks,five bucks, 10 bucks a month?62100:36:52,500 --> 00:36:55,320And I was like, Okay, I'll do 10bucks. I later changed it three62200:36:55,320 --> 00:37:01,410bucks, because, you know, it'sthe so I went to I did the 1062300:37:01,410 --> 00:37:07,740bucks. And one of the optionsfor paying was Apple Pay. So I'm62400:37:07,740 --> 00:37:10,290like, Okay, it's cool. I doubleclick the little double click62500:37:10,290 --> 00:37:13,530the power button, do the ApplePay checkout. And it's like,62600:37:13,530 --> 00:37:16,290okay, great, you're done. Andthen the WebView closes. And62700:37:16,290 --> 00:37:20,370I'm, I'm back in, I'm back inthe out, I never left the app,62800:37:20,370 --> 00:37:23,490really, from the experience.Technically, I did. But62900:37:24,030 --> 00:37:30,090experience was I didn't. So thatI think that was all enabled by63000:37:30,090 --> 00:37:36,480the fact that the signup screen,so to speak, the signup page was63100:37:37,440 --> 00:37:42,240in the funding tag. But if youwere if we're doing this as a63200:37:42,240 --> 00:37:48,420complete open subscription sortof idea, then that probably that63300:37:48,420 --> 00:37:53,310link to do the subscription. Ifit's a UI, Web UI based, you63400:37:53,310 --> 00:37:57,360know, you are just a URL on theweb, you'd probably be moved63500:37:57,360 --> 00:38:01,380into this or probably be movedit somewhere else into the feed63600:38:01,380 --> 00:38:04,290where it makes more sense, Iwould think, because the funding63700:38:04,290 --> 00:38:06,570tag is too is like looselyconnected, good63800:38:06,600 --> 00:38:10,020Unknown: the way the way that wedid subscriptions, you can do63900:38:10,050 --> 00:38:13,140premium content, or you don'thave to do premium content. So64000:38:13,140 --> 00:38:16,230if you don't do premium content,then the funding tag does64100:38:16,230 --> 00:38:18,900exactly what we want to do,right? If you want to support64200:38:18,900 --> 00:38:22,050the show, you can click on thelink that's in your funding tag,64300:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,560pick your amount, and you're offto the races, if it's premium64400:38:25,560 --> 00:38:29,130content that feels likesomething different. And that's64500:38:29,130 --> 00:38:32,010where I think we shouldintroduce another tag, which64600:38:32,010 --> 00:38:36,120would be some type ofauthorization URL,64700:38:37,140 --> 00:38:38,670Adam Curry: private modifiedSpotify tag, how about64800:38:40,380 --> 00:38:43,050Unknown: to be able to access topremium content for that RSS64900:38:43,050 --> 00:38:43,380feed?65000:38:44,160 --> 00:38:47,520Dave Jones: Yeah, that's a goodpoint. So so if you have this,65100:38:47,550 --> 00:38:50,580if you have content premiumcontent, where you have to pay65200:38:50,580 --> 00:38:55,110for it, to hit to listen to it,then it then that that link to65300:38:55,110 --> 00:38:57,960buy it should be in some, likeyou said, it should be in this65400:38:57,960 --> 00:39:01,350own tag, or somewhere else thatmakes more sense than just65500:39:01,350 --> 00:39:02,970funding because fundingsdisconnected,65600:39:03,060 --> 00:39:06,150Unknown: but the player needs tohear it needs to hear something65700:39:06,150 --> 00:39:10,170back from the whoever is goingto authorize charge the credit65800:39:10,170 --> 00:39:14,220card, verify the payment,whatever. And so like cast65900:39:14,220 --> 00:39:17,640ematic, for example, would needto hear back what is the private66000:39:17,640 --> 00:39:22,230RSS feed. And so that's where Ithink if we could introduce into66100:39:22,230 --> 00:39:26,460the namespace, some way of doingweb hooks, some type of standard66200:39:26,460 --> 00:39:30,300for doing web hooks, we coulduse that same methodology for66300:39:30,450 --> 00:39:34,410the verifying ownership of apodcast where, you know, because66400:39:34,410 --> 00:39:36,990he kind of got the conversationgot derailed when it started to66500:39:36,990 --> 00:39:40,290get into Oh off. And that's kindof a complicated structure. We66600:39:40,290 --> 00:39:43,440could do something so muchsimpler and just do a web hook,66700:39:43,530 --> 00:39:48,030where we, you, they make arequest to the API, we verify66800:39:48,030 --> 00:39:50,400that they have ownership andthen we just hit the web hook66900:39:50,400 --> 00:39:53,610and pass in, you know, theparameter to let them know here.67000:39:53,640 --> 00:39:56,550Yeah, they're verified or we letthem know here's the private RSS67100:39:56,550 --> 00:40:00,120feed, rather than, you know,building too too much. Some67200:40:00,600 --> 00:40:03,660infrastructure for the playersto implement. I like that67300:40:03,660 --> 00:40:07,800Adam Curry: idea of can we justhave a general system like that67400:40:07,800 --> 00:40:11,760that is, is an authorizationsystem with a web hook for67500:40:11,760 --> 00:40:13,050anything that we might need?67600:40:15,389 --> 00:40:17,219Unknown: Yeah, I mean, I thinkso we're talking about, we're67700:40:17,219 --> 00:40:19,739just talking about a genericcallback system, and then67800:40:19,739 --> 00:40:22,799letting people get creativeabout how they want to use it.67900:40:22,950 --> 00:40:26,070Adam Curry: And it can be anypayment system, any any type of68000:40:26,370 --> 00:40:29,280that that makes a lot, whichwould also be great, just for68100:40:29,910 --> 00:40:34,320general verification. This is myfeed, right? Yep. Yep.68200:40:36,240 --> 00:40:40,080Unknown: Host and say, and thenbasically provide the URL. So68300:40:40,080 --> 00:40:43,140for example, let's say that itwas a verification tag. So you68400:40:43,140 --> 00:40:46,530put in the URL, in this case, itwould be a Buzzsprout URL. So68500:40:46,530 --> 00:40:51,090now when they click on that, orthe player goes to that link,68600:40:51,150 --> 00:40:54,180and pulls up the page to displayto the user, the user would then68700:40:54,180 --> 00:40:57,060login to their Buzzsproutaccount. And then it verifies68800:40:57,090 --> 00:41:00,090that they're the owner and thencalls the callback URL and68900:41:00,090 --> 00:41:02,040passes in, yes, they've beenauthorized.69000:41:03,060 --> 00:41:05,070Adam Curry: I think somethinglike that is pretty interesting.69100:41:05,670 --> 00:41:08,520Unknown: And then you could youcould do that same thing for the69200:41:08,550 --> 00:41:11,490premium content, where now itgoes out to the the host, it69300:41:11,490 --> 00:41:15,450goes to Buzzsprout, they log in,and then we send back the RSS69400:41:15,450 --> 00:41:18,510feed the private RSS feed thisunique to that user, so they can69500:41:18,510 --> 00:41:20,010get access to the premiumcontent.69600:41:20,190 --> 00:41:22,830Adam Curry: Boot. Dave saysyou'll be right back, he had to69700:41:22,830 --> 00:41:28,020reboot. But that's good, becausethat gives me complete control69800:41:28,020 --> 00:41:31,890of the board. I think, theobviously you know that I'm I69900:41:31,920 --> 00:41:35,010the idea of premium content. Ijust like I don't like it. But70000:41:35,010 --> 00:41:37,110that's okay. Because I don'twant to stand in the way of70100:41:37,110 --> 00:41:40,440anything. That's why I love theconcept of the web hook that can70200:41:40,440 --> 00:41:45,720be used for because I would alsoI would love to have a way to70300:41:46,680 --> 00:41:51,270just yeah, we got your backbrother just support any podcast70400:41:51,270 --> 00:41:56,640on a weekly or a monthly basis?Or, I mean, seriously, even how70500:41:56,640 --> 00:42:00,990cool would it be is if my appdetects that my favorite podcast70600:42:00,990 --> 00:42:05,640has released a new episode thatI automatically fire off a70700:42:05,640 --> 00:42:08,670payment? I mean, that's the kindof stuff that I would really70800:42:08,670 --> 00:42:11,190love to have, whether it'spremium or not. In my case, it70900:42:11,190 --> 00:42:14,190wouldn't be by like the idea ofOh, am new, new episode,71000:42:14,430 --> 00:42:17,070immediate support? And it wouldand of course, I would like to71100:42:17,070 --> 00:42:22,740do with Satoshis instead ofwith, with any fiat currency, if71200:42:22,740 --> 00:42:27,090we can accomplish all that witha general web hook system that71300:42:27,090 --> 00:42:29,790we put into namespace, man, yougot a champion in May?71400:42:30,360 --> 00:42:33,090Unknown: I think it would, Ithink what we would be able to71500:42:33,090 --> 00:42:37,830do is just define for each ofthe different scenarios, what71600:42:37,830 --> 00:42:40,950would the web hook response looklike? So for example, was71700:42:40,950 --> 00:42:44,160authorization, they would get aJSON response back that says71800:42:44,160 --> 00:42:47,040authorization true, you know, wedefine the parameter and the71900:42:47,040 --> 00:42:49,620values that are going to comeback, if it was a request for72000:42:49,620 --> 00:42:53,340private RSS feed, what comesback is, you know, private RSS72100:42:53,340 --> 00:42:56,550feed and then the URL, but wewould just define those72200:42:56,550 --> 00:43:00,120standards, and now all theplayers could implement it72300:43:00,120 --> 00:43:03,420however they want. And all thehosts could implement any way72400:43:03,420 --> 00:43:04,350they want. I liked that72500:43:04,350 --> 00:43:06,660Adam Curry: idea that I don'tsee any downside to it. I only72600:43:06,660 --> 00:43:07,830see wins.72700:43:08,250 --> 00:43:10,530Unknown: Yeah, well, Adam,what's your take on private rssb72800:43:10,530 --> 00:43:14,790It's not like premium content,but like, whatever. Toyota wants72900:43:14,790 --> 00:43:17,700to do a podcast for all theiremployees only. So they need73000:43:17,700 --> 00:43:18,540some way to authorize73100:43:18,630 --> 00:43:22,950Adam Curry: I mean, that's, Ithink that to me, is a is a, you73200:43:22,950 --> 00:43:25,410know, that's a sale for you.Right, you know, you'll be73300:43:25,410 --> 00:43:28,530selling to Toyota thatcapability if you can make it73400:43:28,530 --> 00:43:35,340work in every podcast app.Fantastic. I completely73500:43:35,850 --> 00:43:40,860understand and, and, and agreewith doing that. Just from a73600:43:40,860 --> 00:43:44,760business perspective, from openpodcasting perspective, from73700:43:44,760 --> 00:43:49,890what I think works and seeingthat every you know, every73800:43:49,890 --> 00:43:53,280single stream we went down thisroad with streaming television,73900:43:53,820 --> 00:43:58,260everyone's losing, everybody islosing Paramount lost $374000:43:58,260 --> 00:44:03,060billion, they've got contenteveryone's losing this game.74100:44:03,450 --> 00:44:06,960Mainly because you get exactlyto the point which brought us74200:44:06,960 --> 00:44:10,620here in the first place. Is noone can afford to have a74300:44:10,620 --> 00:44:14,460subscription a paid subscriptionfor a month or whatever it is74400:44:14,460 --> 00:44:17,160for every single piece ofcontent they like then you have74500:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,670to make shitty decisions. Well,okay, I can't afford to have74600:44:20,670 --> 00:44:23,400this I have to cut myself off Ican't have Disney because I74700:44:23,400 --> 00:44:26,760can't afford it and Hulu andNetflix and Paramount plus and74800:44:26,760 --> 00:44:30,720all that stuff. That's just myopinion that I think history74900:44:30,720 --> 00:44:33,930shows it but there's reasons tohave private feeds.75000:44:35,280 --> 00:44:39,870Dave Jones: It seems like the onthe private feed thing. There's75100:44:40,230 --> 00:44:45,390our original discussion aroundopen subscription was avoided in75200:44:45,390 --> 00:44:49,320order to avoid private feeds. Sothat was like the original the75300:44:49,320 --> 00:44:54,990original as as sort ofconceptualized was the podcast75400:44:54,990 --> 00:44:58,530app does a hence does some sortof payment handshake. It you75500:44:58,530 --> 00:45:00,600know it kicks out you do thepayment You set up the75600:45:00,600 --> 00:45:05,610subscription. And then what getshanded back to the app is some75700:45:05,610 --> 00:45:10,470sort of token. And then the appitself stores the token and75800:45:10,470 --> 00:45:15,450sends it sends the token as aparameter with the enclosure75900:45:15,450 --> 00:45:19,680download request, so that youdon't actually have to have a76000:45:19,680 --> 00:45:26,760separate private feed. And thatthat comes from like that, that76100:45:26,760 --> 00:45:30,300comes from the sort of messinessof trying to police private76200:45:30,300 --> 00:45:33,780feeds. Because that's the onlydownside, the only the only76300:45:33,780 --> 00:45:38,610downside of private feed aretokenized feed URLs, is that if76400:45:38,610 --> 00:45:42,690they get loose? Your you gotalmost you have to kill them. I76500:45:42,690 --> 00:45:45,930mean, I think most of theseservices like, you know,76600:45:46,200 --> 00:45:49,440substack, and it was a supercast. And these cats are that76700:45:49,440 --> 00:45:53,940generate, that do a lot of thoseprivate feeds. I think they also76800:45:53,940 --> 00:45:57,570usually have a mechanism inplace to where if they detect76900:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,210that it's getting hit frommultiple geo locations, they77000:46:00,240 --> 00:46:03,840didn't they kill it and recyclea new feed, and things like77100:46:03,840 --> 00:46:08,550that. So that in order to avoidthat messiness, you could have77200:46:08,550 --> 00:46:12,840the app itself could store thetoken, instead of bag, then you77300:46:12,840 --> 00:46:13,740require the app,77400:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,990Adam Curry: you know, you know,where this conversation always77500:46:15,990 --> 00:46:21,420ends up Dave? DRM, that's whereit always ends, watch. It always77600:46:21,420 --> 00:46:24,420ends. DRM always does well, in77700:46:24,780 --> 00:46:27,330Dave Jones: the past to storesomething, yeah,77800:46:27,330 --> 00:46:29,820Unknown: but the way you'redescribing it is pretty much the77900:46:29,820 --> 00:46:32,490way it works, the only thingthat's happening is you're78000:46:32,490 --> 00:46:35,160passing in the token. So whathappens is when you make the78100:46:35,160 --> 00:46:38,610request to Buzzsprout, forexample, if we were implemented,78200:46:38,610 --> 00:46:40,890the way I proposed, when youmake the request to Buzzsprout,78300:46:40,890 --> 00:46:44,040what it's sending back to you isessentially the token, right,78400:46:44,040 --> 00:46:47,640because it's if that value wereto get out to the public, well,78500:46:47,640 --> 00:46:49,650then anybody could go ahead, andthey could download anything78600:46:49,650 --> 00:46:52,740they want. And that token isonly as valid as that person is78700:46:52,740 --> 00:46:56,790paying for their subscription.So it's pretty much if you look78800:46:56,790 --> 00:46:59,970at the URL, that's what it is,is you're passing in the token,78900:47:00,090 --> 00:47:03,480with your request base, I'm justtrying to build on a standard,79000:47:03,720 --> 00:47:07,500rather than like, becausethere's already a way for a, for79100:47:07,500 --> 00:47:11,280example, for Apple podcasts tobe able to load a private RSS79200:47:11,280 --> 00:47:15,240feed, but they don't really havea way to deal with tokens. So79300:47:15,240 --> 00:47:18,720what we do is we just attach thetoken to the URL. So in the79400:47:18,720 --> 00:47:22,650enclosure URL, you're passingthe token with your request. And79500:47:22,650 --> 00:47:25,230that's, that's really the bigdifference in the RSS feed is79600:47:25,230 --> 00:47:26,850that it includes your tokens,79700:47:27,270 --> 00:47:30,270Dave Jones: which I think, whichI think is is just a good79800:47:30,270 --> 00:47:33,270compromise, it makes a lot ofsense to do it to do it that79900:47:33,270 --> 00:47:37,020way. Because it's a it's a, it'snot such a heavy lift for the80000:47:37,020 --> 00:47:41,160app. Because you're just movingright, you're sort of moving80100:47:41,160 --> 00:47:46,380things up the stack a little bitto where it's primarily a web80200:47:46,380 --> 00:47:50,190handshake, and less of a sort oflower level infrastructure80300:47:50,190 --> 00:47:54,120handshake where the app has todo a bunch of negotiation. The80400:47:54,120 --> 00:47:59,130only I guess the only, the onlything is how, if if that's how80500:47:59,130 --> 00:48:04,230it goes. So if if if the ideahere is to have a purely in app80600:48:04,230 --> 00:48:08,790experience, where the user doesnot have to manually do an80700:48:08,790 --> 00:48:12,450interaction, so what you wouldwant in that case is, if it's80800:48:12,450 --> 00:48:15,810premium content, you'd want tokick out to a web view, do the80900:48:15,810 --> 00:48:20,760transaction, and then hand backthe token, the tokenized, and81000:48:20,760 --> 00:48:24,360feed private feed your real, youdo want to hand that back to the81100:48:24,360 --> 00:48:29,580app in some way. So that the appknows to swap out. Yes, see that81200:48:29,580 --> 00:48:33,330it has in storage already withthe new one. So that's81300:48:33,330 --> 00:48:37,530Unknown: the web hook. So thewhat the web hook is the app81400:48:37,560 --> 00:48:40,440telling the service, hey, afterthey've completed their payment,81500:48:40,950 --> 00:48:45,630call this URL and pass in thetokenized URL. So that way, you81600:48:45,630 --> 00:48:48,810can pass it back to cast ematic,or whatever the player is.81700:48:49,560 --> 00:48:54,300Dave Jones: So but is there away to do it? The I never really81800:48:54,300 --> 00:48:59,100got a satisfactory answer tothis. When I posted about it on81900:48:59,100 --> 00:49:03,180the on the mastodon was, isthere a way to hand hand that82000:49:03,180 --> 00:49:05,370back from the web view where youdon't have to have a second or a82100:49:05,370 --> 00:49:06,330second request?82200:49:06,420 --> 00:49:09,330Unknown: I don't believe so.Because that would be a big82300:49:09,330 --> 00:49:11,970security risk. Because thatwould mean that the app is82400:49:12,000 --> 00:49:16,020monitoring what you're doing onthe website. That's not their82500:49:16,020 --> 00:49:18,600website. So cast Matic ismonitoring what you're doing on82600:49:18,600 --> 00:49:22,800Buzzsprout. So I think thatthere's no way for the web view82700:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,740to pass that information back.That's where the web hook comes82800:49:25,740 --> 00:49:30,030in. So web hook is a way for usto pass it back the same way it82900:49:30,030 --> 00:49:33,210came to us. It came to us as anHTTP request, we can send it83000:49:33,210 --> 00:49:35,160back to them through an HTTPrequest.83100:49:35,640 --> 00:49:38,370Dave Jones: So it's not likethere's no there's no capacity83200:49:38,370 --> 00:49:42,960for something like like a returnvalue from a web view. Or an83300:49:42,960 --> 00:49:43,980exit code.83400:49:45,180 --> 00:49:48,570Unknown: Yeah, I don't believeso. But I'm not a mobile. I'm83500:49:48,570 --> 00:49:49,470not a mobile guy.83600:49:50,339 --> 00:49:52,979Dave Jones: Okay, because that'sthe only that's really the only83700:49:52,979 --> 00:49:55,589part that gets tricky. I mean,like, if you can give, if you83800:49:55,589 --> 00:49:59,639can give it back then that'slike effortless care, but you83900:49:59,639 --> 00:50:01,139don't even So just do it in?84000:50:01,380 --> 00:50:04,740Unknown: Well, yeah, that'strue. But if the web, the web84100:50:04,740 --> 00:50:07,380hook is a mechanism, I thinkthat anybody could take84200:50:07,380 --> 00:50:09,990advantage of right? Like any ofthe players that are out there,84300:50:10,050 --> 00:50:15,360they could they could make, orthey could receive a HTTP84400:50:15,360 --> 00:50:18,150request, as long as they have aserver that they can receive it.84500:50:18,270 --> 00:50:20,940So now they get that privatefeed, and they can just swap it84600:50:20,940 --> 00:50:24,390out for the one, you know, thatthey were currently on before.84700:50:24,750 --> 00:50:27,270Dave Jones: So when you'resaying web hook, you're talking84800:50:27,270 --> 00:50:30,120about the app side is receivingthe hook.84900:50:30,750 --> 00:50:35,250Unknown: So okay, so if castematic is the player, and85000:50:35,250 --> 00:50:39,330somebody wants to authorizeownership, or they want to, you85100:50:39,330 --> 00:50:43,020know, subscribe to premiumcontent, then it goes to a85200:50:43,020 --> 00:50:46,080Buzzsprout URL, but when theycall Buzzsprout, they say, when85300:50:46,080 --> 00:50:51,240you're done doing your thing,here's a URL or a web hook, I85400:50:51,240 --> 00:50:55,020want you to call this URL whenyou're done and tell me what85500:50:55,020 --> 00:50:59,700happened. So now Buzzsprout doesits thing. It authenticates, or85600:50:59,700 --> 00:51:03,840it does Apple Pay. And once it'sdone, it calls that web hook and85700:51:03,840 --> 00:51:06,390says, Hey, we're done. Andeverything went great. Or it85800:51:06,390 --> 00:51:09,090calls the web hook, and it says,we're done. And the credit card85900:51:09,090 --> 00:51:12,210didn't get approved, whatever.And so we pass that information86000:51:12,210 --> 00:51:14,760back to the app, and so that theapp can do whatever it wants to86100:51:14,760 --> 00:51:15,060do.86200:51:15,480 --> 00:51:17,490Dave Jones: So that Yeah, cuzthat's gonna be a problem for86300:51:17,490 --> 00:51:20,760customers. Because they don't hedidn't Franco has no server86400:51:20,760 --> 00:51:25,950infrastructure at all. Period.Yeah. Yeah. So it's So86500:51:26,340 --> 00:51:28,080Unknown: how old are you toreceive? Uh,86600:51:28,500 --> 00:51:32,610Dave Jones: huh. Yeah. Yeah. Sothat's, that's, that's, that's86700:51:32,610 --> 00:51:36,630the issue. So for those, likefor, it'll see, Nathan says apps86800:51:36,630 --> 00:51:39,900can definitely inject their ownJavaScript into web views. If86900:51:39,900 --> 00:51:42,840that's the case, they, you wouldthink they could get those87000:51:42,840 --> 00:51:48,480things back. I mean, like, for,for many podcast apps, I mean,87100:51:48,480 --> 00:51:51,240I'm going to say a lot of them,they would have the capability87200:51:51,240 --> 00:51:53,910to receive the hook. But there'sgoing to be some out there that87300:51:53,910 --> 00:51:57,390don't. And like cast ematic,where it's purely everything87400:51:57,390 --> 00:51:58,740happens on device.87500:52:00,930 --> 00:52:03,120Unknown: If they can injecttheir own JavaScript, then the87600:52:03,120 --> 00:52:09,060web hook could be a URL, a localURL, you know what I mean to the87700:52:09,060 --> 00:52:14,700JavaScript? Yeah. Okay. But thatwould be that would, that's the87800:52:14,700 --> 00:52:17,190mechanism, we're talking aboutbuilding. But what we would need87900:52:17,190 --> 00:52:21,570is an app developer, to to kindof weigh in on that because I'm,88000:52:21,600 --> 00:52:26,220I'm a web developer. And they'llhave a different approach to it.88100:52:26,970 --> 00:52:29,880Yeah, what that but that's whatI that's what I just came up88200:52:29,880 --> 00:52:35,130with. And this is specificallyfor, you know, doing, giving88300:52:35,130 --> 00:52:37,740access to premium content, butbuilding a web hook88400:52:37,740 --> 00:52:40,110infrastructure that we could usein other areas as well.88500:52:40,860 --> 00:52:43,230Adam Curry: Let's talk about theother areas before I fall asleep88600:52:43,230 --> 00:52:44,250over this tantalizing88700:52:45,150 --> 00:52:47,640Unknown: commodity. This was ahot namespace talk.88800:52:48,480 --> 00:52:56,190Adam Curry: Not really. We gotweb hooks got JavaScript. So88900:52:56,220 --> 00:52:59,580this kind of folds into becausewe've now discussed two things89000:52:59,580 --> 00:53:04,980that were kind of with the, withthis web hook, round robin89100:53:04,980 --> 00:53:11,370infrastructure for t x t. Boththings that are part of the pod89200:53:11,370 --> 00:53:17,820Standards Project. Which Ibelieve you guys are one of the89300:53:17,820 --> 00:53:20,820driving forces behind it's alittle unclear because I'm not89400:53:20,820 --> 00:53:25,230quite sure. You know, why don'tyou tell us about that? Tell you89500:53:25,230 --> 00:53:28,080about the pocket StandardsProject. Not so much about this.89600:53:28,140 --> 00:53:30,480I think everyone who's listeningknows what the standards project89700:53:30,480 --> 00:53:33,900is but what's driving it who'sdriving it where are we at?89800:53:34,140 --> 00:53:36,090Where's the wallet for me tocontribute to it?89900:53:36,360 --> 00:53:38,880Unknown: I have it I have a guywanted to bring it to you live90000:53:38,880 --> 00:53:43,410and except your gracious giftperson I want to send to you in90100:53:43,410 --> 00:53:44,220personal email.90200:53:44,250 --> 00:53:46,590Adam Curry: Good good. Well sendthat to me while we're talking90300:53:46,590 --> 00:53:47,700so I can put it into split90400:53:47,940 --> 00:53:50,340Unknown: Okay, what do you wantjust like I set it up on Albie90500:53:50,340 --> 00:53:52,200just want to get lb? Yes. Just90600:53:52,200 --> 00:53:53,940Adam Curry: send me the Yeah,just send me the get lb user90700:53:53,940 --> 00:54:00,120addresses worked perfectly. Forit's perfect. So it was funny,90800:54:00,120 --> 00:54:03,480because, you know, we talkedabout this on the last episode90900:54:03,780 --> 00:54:06,570about how you know, we're kindof the fighters running around91000:54:06,570 --> 00:54:08,610on the front lines. We've gotthe diplomats and the91100:54:08,610 --> 00:54:12,750politician, but we want to helpfund him. And then subsequently,91200:54:12,750 --> 00:54:17,250it seems like one of the mainyou know first topics of the PSP91300:54:17,250 --> 00:54:21,570Oh, dot nine is transcripts andeveryone's yelling and screaming91400:54:21,570 --> 00:54:24,390over podcast indexed or socialabout it. So I'm just trying to,91500:54:24,420 --> 00:54:27,240which is fine. I'm trying tofigure out when when does some91600:54:27,270 --> 00:54:30,450how what's what's the mechanism?How's it going to flow through?91700:54:30,450 --> 00:54:33,540When does something get writtenup? Who writes it up? What are91800:54:33,540 --> 00:54:35,910the inner workings of this,because I've seen a lot of these91900:54:35,910 --> 00:54:38,910projects have actually hadmissed 10 years, these projects,92000:54:39,060 --> 00:54:43,110I wasn't invited into them, Iwouldn't have gone anyway. And92100:54:43,140 --> 00:54:46,980they usually turn out to be adud. And so I want to do92200:54:46,980 --> 00:54:50,250everything I can to helpeveryone make this successful92300:54:50,250 --> 00:54:54,240because I do believe in theidea. But I'm like, you know now92400:54:54,240 --> 00:54:57,510we're a week further. There's nonew blog post. There's no news.92500:54:57,510 --> 00:55:01,110There's nothing in the GitHubthat I can see specifically,92600:55:01,320 --> 00:55:04,500what's the process? Who'sdriving it? Should there be a92700:55:04,500 --> 00:55:09,330designated leader? Who do welook to? I mean, I just hear a92800:55:09,330 --> 00:55:12,510little confusion. You certainlyI'm confused a bit. You're92900:55:12,510 --> 00:55:12,990confused?93000:55:13,020 --> 00:55:15,270Unknown: Yeah. Yeah, let's tryto answer some of that address93100:55:15,270 --> 00:55:20,910some of that confusion. So Ithink the we launched the93200:55:20,910 --> 00:55:24,330project, it takes, it took a lotto get to that point, a lot, a93300:55:24,330 --> 00:55:27,180lot of work. And I think a lotof the people who did a lot of93400:55:27,180 --> 00:55:31,290the heavy lifting on that neededa week to breathe. And so I93500:55:31,290 --> 00:55:35,850think that's why it was a littlequiet. There is there was a lot93600:55:35,880 --> 00:55:39,270of communication happening onthe back end. And we decided93700:55:39,300 --> 00:55:42,660that that's, I mean, this is nothow a successful project is93800:55:42,660 --> 00:55:44,790going to work. We have to getthis thing out in the open. But93900:55:44,790 --> 00:55:47,490in order to get it out in theopen, we had to put something94000:55:47,520 --> 00:55:50,580out in the open. And when you'reworking with a lot of94100:55:50,580 --> 00:55:53,070organizations and a lot ofdifferent opinions, you've got94200:55:53,070 --> 00:55:55,530to get some sort of agreementabout here's what's coming.94300:55:55,680 --> 00:55:58,200Here's what we're going to openup. And so that's what took a94400:55:58,200 --> 00:56:02,160long time. Now that that is doneand that is out. We want this to94500:56:02,160 --> 00:56:05,280be an open project. So in termsof that's why we didn't come out94600:56:05,280 --> 00:56:08,010with a one Dotto spec, we cameout with a dot nine like here's94700:56:08,640 --> 00:56:12,450some building blocks. And wefeel like it's pretty good and94800:56:12,450 --> 00:56:14,490everyone involved in the projecthas agreed on this stuff. But94900:56:14,490 --> 00:56:18,150now let's get it to one Dotto.So we want to hear pushback, we95000:56:18,150 --> 00:56:20,370want to hear challenges we wantto hear how can we improve it95100:56:20,370 --> 00:56:24,660what's lacking the there's adifference between the spec that95200:56:24,660 --> 00:56:29,010is being proposed, and therequirements to be a PSP95300:56:29,010 --> 00:56:32,340certified provider, whetheryou're a listening app or95400:56:32,340 --> 00:56:37,770hosting company to be compliantwith the spec, you don't have to95500:56:37,770 --> 00:56:40,380support transcripts, that's justa recommendation as far as95600:56:40,380 --> 00:56:45,270recommended tag. But to be a PSPCertified Partner, if you're95700:56:45,270 --> 00:56:47,670like a hosting company, you haveto have a UI to upload a95800:56:47,670 --> 00:56:52,620transcript. Does that makesense? Yeah, sure, sure. Sure.95900:56:52,710 --> 00:56:56,610Right. And so anything that's inthe spec, whether it be required96000:56:56,610 --> 00:57:01,590or recommended or recommended orsituational, you have to provide96100:57:02,040 --> 00:57:05,310a UI if you're hosting companyto do that. And if you're an app96200:57:05,400 --> 00:57:08,640that is certified, then you haveto, there's only two tags right96300:57:08,640 --> 00:57:13,680now that you need to accommodateto be a PSP listening app. And I96400:57:13,680 --> 00:57:18,870think that is its funding andtranscripts. Right. And so it's96500:57:18,870 --> 00:57:22,080really the bar is really lowright now. But the idea is to96600:57:22,080 --> 00:57:24,930set the bar low, so you canstart getting adoption. And then96700:57:24,930 --> 00:57:28,770as other great ideas come in, wewill do yearly reviews and say,96800:57:28,770 --> 00:57:31,230Hey, do you want to keep thatPSP certification, we hope it's96900:57:31,260 --> 00:57:33,900valuable. We hope you believe inwhat we believe and still want97000:57:33,900 --> 00:57:37,380to be a part. This year, we'regoing to adopt XYZ, and we want97100:57:37,380 --> 00:57:40,590that to be community driven asmuch as possible. We're trying97200:57:40,590 --> 00:57:43,080to figure out right now, like atthe end of the day, somebody's97300:57:43,080 --> 00:57:46,590going to have to say, we'reupdating the spec to this, we97400:57:46,590 --> 00:57:47,760want to move from one Dotto to97500:57:49,050 --> 00:57:54,780Adam Curry: one step back onesec. Who who says to Pocket97600:57:54,780 --> 00:57:58,410Cast, y'all want to be a part ofit, you've got to implement your97700:57:58,410 --> 00:58:03,390transcript, who is the who isthe person that says that? That97800:58:03,420 --> 00:58:06,900I presume that person is notdesignated. This is what I know97900:58:06,900 --> 00:58:09,630this this, this is this is wherethings break. I mean, I'm an98000:58:09,630 --> 00:58:12,540organizational guy out communityguys. So I see these things like98100:58:12,540 --> 00:58:15,780okay, I understand that, thatthat has to be said, but someone98200:58:15,780 --> 00:58:16,650actually has to say it.98300:58:17,610 --> 00:58:19,440Unknown: Right? Well, the peoplewho are saying it right now,98400:58:19,440 --> 00:58:21,780it's not just one person, it's agroup of people. So it's a group98500:58:21,780 --> 00:58:23,880of people that came together andsaid, Hey, here's dot nine,98600:58:23,880 --> 00:58:26,310here's the certificationrequirements. Anybody who wants98700:58:26,460 --> 00:58:29,490to be PSP certified has to meetthese requirements. And it98800:58:29,490 --> 00:58:31,470wasn't just Buzzsprout asBuzzsprout and transistor and98900:58:31,470 --> 00:58:34,440red circle and blueberry andrss.com. It was us speaking99000:58:34,440 --> 00:58:37,050together and saying we agree onthis stuff. And that's enough of99100:58:37,050 --> 00:58:40,140us have agreed that anybody elsewho wants to come in these to99200:58:40,140 --> 00:58:40,920play by these rules.99300:58:42,210 --> 00:58:45,690Hopefully that badge begins tomean something for especially99400:58:45,690 --> 00:58:48,000for people that care about openpodcasting. And so then they'll99500:58:48,000 --> 00:58:51,300ask the question, why don't youhave that badge? Why aren't you99600:58:51,300 --> 00:58:51,870doing it?99700:58:53,070 --> 00:58:56,490Adam Curry: Right. So thatthat's my point is I see Pocket99800:58:56,490 --> 00:59:00,870Casts coming soon. Yeah, yeah.Someone has to excuse me. You99900:59:00,870 --> 00:59:02,670know, we're going to take youoff, and we're going to take100000:59:02,670 --> 00:59:03,450away your badge.100100:59:04,860 --> 00:59:07,860Unknown: Your credentials. Yes.Right. Right. No, that was100200:59:07,860 --> 00:59:10,050great, though, because PocketCasts was super excited about100300:59:10,050 --> 00:59:12,330it. But they said, You guys arelaunching before we're going to100400:59:12,330 --> 00:59:15,450be ready. And so we said, well,we need a commitment. Can you100500:59:15,450 --> 00:59:18,120what's the what's the commitmentdate that you feel comfortable100600:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,670with? And they said by the endof spring, and so we said,100700:59:20,730 --> 00:59:22,830that's good enough. But we'regoing to if you don't have it by100800:59:22,830 --> 00:59:24,990the end of spring, you're logoscoming off the site? Am I right?100900:59:24,990 --> 00:59:25,500No problem.101000:59:25,920 --> 00:59:28,170Adam Curry: My recommendationwould be just, you know, y'all101100:59:28,170 --> 00:59:33,630gotta just recommendation youneed to have someone who is101200:59:33,630 --> 00:59:36,360responsible for doing that. Andit can't just be kind of like,101300:59:36,390 --> 00:59:38,880we're gonna someone's gonna saywe're going to stand around in a101400:59:38,880 --> 00:59:43,320circle and say, You're not doingit. You need to face and I101500:59:43,320 --> 00:59:43,710hatchet101600:59:43,710 --> 00:59:46,380Dave Jones: man. Yeah, you needto represent101700:59:46,380 --> 00:59:47,610Unknown: Tom wants to be thatguy.101800:59:48,990 --> 00:59:50,220Adam Curry: You need torepresent you need a101900:59:50,220 --> 00:59:54,510representative. You really do.Yeah. And you know what? Kind of102000:59:55,860 --> 00:59:58,980Todd actually be pretty goodbecause Todd, as I know him,102100:59:58,980 --> 01:00:01,740I've known him for a long time.does not give a crap, he will102201:00:01,740 --> 01:00:04,110say, Hey, you guys are no good,you got to do it, and he'll102301:00:04,110 --> 01:00:08,820hound him. But my recommendationis the only thing I'm missing is102401:00:08,850 --> 01:00:12,300you need someone to actually beresponsible for saying that.102501:00:12,690 --> 01:00:15,420Otherwise, it's just going tolinger. And I just hate that to102601:00:15,420 --> 01:00:16,980see that happen. That's all justhate.102701:00:17,640 --> 01:00:20,610Dave Jones: The approach makesthe approach makes sense, I102801:00:20,610 --> 01:00:23,700think because if you if you lookat let's just say mobile apps,102901:00:23,700 --> 01:00:27,690for instance, a mobile appdevelopers are used to this sort103001:00:27,690 --> 01:00:31,260of annual cadence anyway, Imean, iOS, the new version of103101:00:31,260 --> 01:00:34,620iOS comes out each year. And newversion of Android comes out103201:00:34,620 --> 01:00:39,270each year. And whenever thathappens, things old, older API's103301:00:39,270 --> 01:00:43,140are deprecated. And newer API'scome out. And so they they have103401:00:43,140 --> 01:00:47,700to at least change thingsannually, on a rolling basis103501:00:47,700 --> 01:00:50,580anyway. So if you make the barlow enough, where you say, Okay,103601:00:50,580 --> 01:00:53,490well, you know, it's been a yearnow we're going to add this,103701:00:53,520 --> 01:00:58,500this extra tag. You know, it'sjust maybe it's just one extra103801:00:58,500 --> 01:01:02,580thing, you know, that that's,that's not a big hurdle? I don't103901:01:02,580 --> 01:01:02,970think104001:01:03,090 --> 01:01:06,300Unknown: agreed. You'reabsolutely right. So I mean, the104101:01:06,330 --> 01:01:09,540reason I mentioned Todd, he wasvery involved in helping us get104201:01:09,540 --> 01:01:11,550to the point that we are, andhe's drafted up some membership104301:01:11,550 --> 01:01:14,190requirements he was just talkingabout, I'm gonna show this week,104401:01:14,340 --> 01:01:19,590and we need to figure out how weget those adopted and put into104501:01:19,590 --> 01:01:22,710place so that we have thatperson, that person who's104601:01:23,040 --> 01:01:24,990running around and tellingeverybody, Hey, here's the new104701:01:24,990 --> 01:01:29,490tags. Here's where we're moving.I don't know it. And a lot of104801:01:29,490 --> 01:01:32,700ways it's easier in some ofthese open source type projects104901:01:32,700 --> 01:01:35,250when you have the benevolentdictator, right.105001:01:35,730 --> 01:01:38,160Adam Curry: Yeah, I don't know.We don't have one. I don't we105101:01:38,160 --> 01:01:40,680don't I don't know. I mean, what105201:01:44,370 --> 01:01:46,080Dave Jones: I thought that was abenevolent dictator was105301:01:48,150 --> 01:01:50,310Adam Curry: someone SomeoneSomeone has to commit key? You105401:01:50,310 --> 01:01:52,530know, that's, that's ultimatelywhat it is105501:01:52,650 --> 01:01:55,380Unknown: that benevolentdictator? Yeah, whoever, whoever105601:01:55,380 --> 01:01:58,740can commit to, for example, forthe PSP, what is going to be105701:01:58,740 --> 01:02:02,220that that first spec thateveryone agrees to meet?105801:02:02,370 --> 01:02:05,520Somebody's got to make the callon what we're going to agree to?105901:02:07,080 --> 01:02:09,510Adam Curry: Let me ask you aphilosophical question. Because106001:02:09,510 --> 01:02:13,080this is going to come up rightnow. So YouTube has come up with106101:02:13,080 --> 01:02:16,470something they call podcast,which turns my stomach because106201:02:16,470 --> 01:02:21,780it's not. However, is it okayfor any hosting company who was106301:02:21,780 --> 01:02:26,520on this list to integrate with,with YouTube without it actually106401:02:26,520 --> 01:02:29,220going through their RSS feed,but just to pump it up into106501:02:29,220 --> 01:02:33,360their infrastructure, therefore,literally ruining the thing that106601:02:33,360 --> 01:02:34,620PSP stands for?106701:02:36,210 --> 01:02:37,920Unknown: Is it okay for them todo that?106801:02:39,240 --> 01:02:41,340Adam Curry: If you're on thislist, it's about open106901:02:41,340 --> 01:02:46,980podcasting. It's literally aboutthese companies, Spotify,107001:02:47,220 --> 01:02:51,960YouTube, and to a degree Apple,that are off doing this, I'm107101:02:51,960 --> 01:02:55,170reading the document. But ifeveryone's gonna go ahead and107201:02:55,170 --> 01:02:59,550say, Well, you know, but mypeople really want to be what's107301:02:59,550 --> 01:03:02,640going to be on YouTube, you'rekind of breaking the whole idea.107401:03:02,970 --> 01:03:05,430Dave Jones: Your question is outof scope? Well,107501:03:05,460 --> 01:03:08,130Unknown: I think I think you'redoing what YouTube wants us to107601:03:08,130 --> 01:03:10,230do, which is to conflatepodcasting with what they're107701:03:10,230 --> 01:03:13,470doing. And it's not. If somebodytakes their content and puts it107801:03:13,470 --> 01:03:16,710up on YouTube, I don't see thatas part of their podcast. I see107901:03:16,710 --> 01:03:20,010them as having a podcast, whichis your RSS feed. And oh, by the108001:03:20,010 --> 01:03:23,640way, they've posted theircontent on YouTube. But I don't108101:03:23,640 --> 01:03:24,060see that as108201:03:24,060 --> 01:03:27,330Adam Curry: a podcast. I'mtalking about hosting companies108301:03:27,330 --> 01:03:31,080integrating to make it to makeone click to go from your108401:03:31,080 --> 01:03:34,980hosting company into YouTube.Would you Would you agree with108501:03:34,980 --> 01:03:37,380me that that is counterintuitive to the mission?108601:03:38,460 --> 01:03:41,670Unknown: I don't think so.Unless they abandon the RSS feed108701:03:41,790 --> 01:03:45,060unless they no longer distributethe content over an RSS feed,108801:03:45,930 --> 01:03:49,560but making that same contentavailable in other places? I108901:03:49,560 --> 01:03:51,990don't think that that'sviolating this.109001:03:52,020 --> 01:03:53,490Adam Curry: Do you think it'spromoted?109101:03:53,490 --> 01:03:54,450Unknown: Maybe they'll vote meout?109201:03:55,110 --> 01:03:57,210Adam Curry: I'm just saying, Doyou feel that that is not109301:03:57,210 --> 01:04:00,690promoting a closed system thatis not part of the RSS109401:04:00,720 --> 01:04:05,400ecosystem, as described in thepodcast Standards Project? I109501:04:05,400 --> 01:04:08,400don't know. I don't know. Idon't,109601:04:08,670 --> 01:04:12,570Unknown: I saw it as a threat. Ijust don't see it that way. I109701:04:12,570 --> 01:04:15,960don't see I don't see YouTube asa threat. I see. YouTube. Now109801:04:15,960 --> 01:04:19,620YouTube could be a threat ifthey if content was only showing109901:04:19,620 --> 01:04:23,940up there. But I don't see themas a threat. I don't think that110001:04:23,940 --> 01:04:24,480who110101:04:24,480 --> 01:04:26,790Adam Curry: is the threat? Whois the threat to the open110201:04:26,790 --> 01:04:29,850podcast, but could name them whowas a threat to the open podcast110301:04:29,880 --> 01:04:30,720ecosystem?110401:04:31,260 --> 01:04:34,680Unknown: Because let me take anypodcasts that it doesn't have an110501:04:34,680 --> 01:04:39,240RSS feed. So a company thatlaunches tomorrow and they have110601:04:39,240 --> 01:04:41,520their own audio content, but theonly way to listen to it is110701:04:41,520 --> 01:04:44,220through their app. Well, that'snot part of110801:04:44,250 --> 01:04:46,080Adam Curry: it's not exactlywhat YouTube is doing. They're110901:04:46,080 --> 01:04:49,170saying upload your podcast tous. And that111001:04:49,170 --> 01:04:52,500Unknown: way you YouTube willnever be a member of PSP. I like111101:04:52,500 --> 01:04:55,290they'll never they'll never wantthis. But for people to111201:04:55,290 --> 01:04:57,720integrate with them. I don'tknow. Okay,111301:04:58,170 --> 01:05:00,390Dave Jones: well, me I guessyour I guess your The poster111401:05:00,390 --> 01:05:04,350child example would be Spotify,Spotify for podcasters, formerly111501:05:04,350 --> 01:05:07,290known as anchor, which theydisable RSS feeds by default.111601:05:07,710 --> 01:05:12,930That would be an example of adefinitely something is it's111701:05:12,930 --> 01:05:16,560hostile to open podcast leave,you know, it's not impossible,111801:05:16,560 --> 01:05:18,720but it is at least openpodcasting hostile.111901:05:19,080 --> 01:05:21,630Unknown: Yeah. But that's kindof like what Kevin was talking112001:05:21,630 --> 01:05:24,180about where we're trying tolike, let's figure out what are112101:05:24,180 --> 01:05:27,000the requirements? Well, can weagree to, because if we set the112201:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,900bar too high, and then there'sonly one or two members, well,112301:05:30,900 --> 01:05:34,560then we're really not a stronggroup to go advocate. So we're112401:05:34,560 --> 01:05:37,830trying to raise the bar. But wehave to do that, in a way by112501:05:37,830 --> 01:05:41,010first getting some type ofground level that we can all112601:05:41,010 --> 01:05:41,790start with.112701:05:45,030 --> 01:05:47,490Dave Jones: I think it makessense. I mean,112801:05:47,910 --> 01:05:50,100Unknown: but it's taken a while.I mean, for sure. You guys were112901:05:50,100 --> 01:05:53,370there. When we when we firstbrought up, you know, the idea113001:05:53,370 --> 01:05:57,810of doing some some type of grouplike this. And I know others113101:05:57,810 --> 01:06:00,750have been critical about howlong it took for for us to be113201:06:00,750 --> 01:06:03,270able to communicate anything,but we had to get critical mass113301:06:03,270 --> 01:06:06,780like we had to get enough peoplethat could get on board with it113401:06:06,780 --> 01:06:09,270before. Otherwise, it would justdie on the vine.113501:06:10,680 --> 01:06:13,980Dave Jones: The one one thing Iknow that has been the this has113601:06:13,980 --> 01:06:18,690been a constant Thorn is D AIand how it impacts all yes, all113701:06:18,690 --> 01:06:23,700of this other stuff. Like, isthere been any, like flexibility113801:06:23,700 --> 01:06:26,820on that? Or is everybody justlike no, or the RDI thing is113901:06:26,820 --> 01:06:28,680just what it is. And we're notgoing to change it. We're not114001:06:28,680 --> 01:06:32,490going to modify, image modifyanything about the way it works?114101:06:33,480 --> 01:06:40,920Unknown: Yeah, more of that.It's been. Yeah, whenever we run114201:06:40,920 --> 01:06:46,440into an element that breaks theAI, it's kind of like everything114301:06:46,440 --> 01:06:50,520grinds to a halt. Yeah. And sothe best way to get something114401:06:50,520 --> 01:06:53,490out there was just to stay awayfrom those landmines. At first,114501:06:53,880 --> 01:06:55,530I was gonna ask him at somepoint,114601:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,710Dave Jones: I had thisexperience. I was listening new114701:06:58,710 --> 01:07:04,770media show yesterday. And I hadin so it's got a pre roll. In114801:07:04,770 --> 01:07:06,960this pre roll. Like I thoughtthat I thought that I had114901:07:06,960 --> 01:07:10,440accidentally missed my mess. MyAPA because I heard this water115001:07:10,470 --> 01:07:13,770trickling, like he's just waterrunning. And like, what if I115101:07:13,770 --> 01:07:17,370switched to Spotify on accident?What did I do? So I flipped back115201:07:17,370 --> 01:07:21,330in his cast? ematic and he'splaying. And I'm like, okay, and115301:07:21,330 --> 01:07:23,400then and then somebody's voicecomes on. Okay, so it's a pre115401:07:23,400 --> 01:07:28,200roll ad for a spa. So we've hadthis, it was like, this thing,115501:07:28,350 --> 01:07:32,640this moment of relaxation hasbeen brought to you by spa. And,115601:07:32,820 --> 01:07:36,840and I was like, Okay, well,that's okay. Unbeknownst to me,115701:07:36,840 --> 01:07:42,720it's a local company. So it waslike, you know, the, the spa,115801:07:42,750 --> 01:07:45,810you know, the best spa inBirmingham, Alabama. And115901:07:45,810 --> 01:07:50,160honestly, I was like, and Ithought, Okay, this creeped me116001:07:50,160 --> 01:07:55,260out. It really creeped me out.Because we all know that this116101:07:55,260 --> 01:07:59,670happens, we all know thattargeting is primarily116201:07:59,670 --> 01:08:03,030geolocation based and that kindof thing that it's not a116301:08:03,030 --> 01:08:08,490surprise that that exists. Andthat's a thing. But it is116401:08:08,880 --> 01:08:15,600creepy. It because it justreinforces this idea. That okay,116501:08:16,200 --> 01:08:21,750this software on my phone, itknows where I'm at, like, of116601:08:21,750 --> 01:08:24,180course it does. There's a sensein which you can say, Yeah, of116701:08:24,180 --> 01:08:26,310course that the thing knowswhere you're at the whole phone116801:08:26,310 --> 01:08:30,180knows where you're at. But whenit kind of throws it in your116901:08:30,180 --> 01:08:34,890face, and it's in it's it'ssaying, Yeah, I really know117001:08:34,890 --> 01:08:39,930where you're at, like, I'mactually watching to know, I'm117101:08:39,930 --> 01:08:43,410actively wanting to know whereyou are. I don't know, I found117201:08:43,410 --> 01:08:47,250the whole thing. Just to commenton dai in general just found the117301:08:47,250 --> 01:08:49,740whole thing very creepy. Andit's the first time that's117401:08:49,740 --> 01:08:50,550actually happened.117501:08:50,790 --> 01:08:53,160Unknown: It's one thing when youopen up the Maps app or117601:08:53,160 --> 01:08:56,130something that is used, likeit's asking permission to use117701:08:56,130 --> 01:08:59,640your location. Yes, youunderstand, right? Like I'm117801:08:59,640 --> 01:09:01,830giving that permission to use mylocations. Another thing when117901:09:01,830 --> 01:09:04,680podcast apps when they mighthave it buried in their terms of118001:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,170service or privacy policysomewhere that they'll use your118101:09:07,170 --> 01:09:10,170location based on your IP, butyou're not reading that stuff. I118201:09:10,170 --> 01:09:12,570never gave cast thematicpermission, and it's not even118301:09:12,570 --> 01:09:15,840Casta Maddox fault. It'swhoever's serving up the podcast118401:09:15,870 --> 01:09:19,140and then handing off my IP tosome, you know, app server118501:09:19,140 --> 01:09:19,920somewhere. actly.118601:09:19,980 --> 01:09:21,150Adam Curry: Exactly. Yes. I118701:09:21,150 --> 01:09:22,710Unknown: never gave itpermission to do that. So that118801:09:22,710 --> 01:09:23,910feels like a violation. Just118901:09:23,910 --> 01:09:28,260Adam Curry: a question on on theDai a minute. Has everyone119001:09:28,260 --> 01:09:32,790figured out it? Will everybodybe supporting transcripts re119101:09:32,790 --> 01:09:36,810syncing after an ad insertion,which screws everything up?119201:09:37,170 --> 01:09:40,470Unknown: Yeah. See, that'sthat's where it gets very119301:09:40,470 --> 01:09:46,860difficult. Because are we goingto say that the PSP like Dai we119401:09:46,860 --> 01:09:49,440think it's creepy. We don't doit. Do we make that a119501:09:49,440 --> 01:09:54,330requirement to be part of theadvocacy for open podcasting119601:09:54,330 --> 01:09:55,740because that will exclude119701:09:55,740 --> 01:09:57,720Adam Curry: that's not what I'mThat's what I'm asking. I'm119801:09:57,720 --> 01:10:03,390asking is, can if If you okay,maybe it is what I'm asking you119901:10:03,390 --> 01:10:03,810directly.120001:10:03,810 --> 01:10:05,340Unknown: It's what you'reasking. Yeah. Okay, if you do120101:10:05,340 --> 01:10:10,110dai it's very difficult. Like, Iunderstand that I pushed hard. I120201:10:10,110 --> 01:10:12,900wanted chapters to be includedin the spec. Um,120301:10:12,930 --> 01:10:14,280Adam Curry: Robert just drank,let's just stick with120401:10:14,280 --> 01:10:16,260transcripts, transcripts getthrown off too.120501:10:16,890 --> 01:10:19,680Unknown: Yeah, transcripts inchapters both require shifting120601:10:19,680 --> 01:10:21,990based on dynamic content, whichis what Buzzsprout does.120701:10:21,990 --> 01:10:23,940Whenever we insert dynamiccontent, we shift the120801:10:23,940 --> 01:10:28,320transcripts. Right, and we shiftbut it's easier for us because120901:10:28,320 --> 01:10:30,510ours are more baked in we'renot, you know, looking at you're121001:10:30,510 --> 01:10:35,250in Birmingham, Alabama andinserting 45. Second ad. So I121101:10:35,250 --> 01:10:38,880think that's that's gonna be apoint of contention is, are we121201:10:38,880 --> 01:10:43,410going to be able to get thosethings that require shifting121301:10:43,410 --> 01:10:45,570timestamps and stuff like that?Are we going to get those121401:10:45,570 --> 01:10:48,480included in the pod standards? Idon't I don't know.121501:10:49,320 --> 01:10:54,540Dave Jones: I think it's, it's,this is not hard. Like, like,121601:10:54,540 --> 01:10:59,010yeah, it is, I think whathappened? It's not because the121701:10:59,010 --> 01:11:03,360technology to do it can't bethought of, it's because there121801:11:03,360 --> 01:11:06,420are third party services outthere that that hosting121901:11:06,420 --> 01:11:10,650companies have integrated withthat do this type of thing. And122001:11:10,980 --> 01:11:15,090they don't they don'taccommodate it. Well, it's like122101:11:15,120 --> 01:11:18,660the if they did if the thirdparties that provided the AI,122201:11:19,380 --> 01:11:24,660that if they did a better job oftagging and slotting in that122301:11:24,660 --> 01:11:27,600kind of thing in a way that isthat the hosting company could122401:11:27,900 --> 01:11:31,110could didn't know about andshift timestamps for this would122501:11:31,110 --> 01:11:35,370be a non issue. But I thinkthere's a disconnect between the122601:11:35,370 --> 01:11:39,150third party DEA providers andthe hosting companies that are122701:11:39,180 --> 01:11:42,990that are calling out to them toinsert the ads. That's where the122801:11:42,990 --> 01:11:45,900breakdown occurs, I think it'sjust a it's just a willpower122901:11:45,900 --> 01:11:49,740issue is like, are we gonna dowe have the willpower to, to123001:11:49,770 --> 01:11:51,960work with people to fix thisover time.123101:11:52,950 --> 01:11:56,760Unknown: So this is where Ithink the podcasting 2.0123201:11:56,760 --> 01:12:00,750movement that you guys havestarted can really help. Because123301:12:00,780 --> 01:12:03,960as people that join thatcommunity are innovating, and123401:12:03,960 --> 01:12:07,890they're doing cool stuff, well,if you're not using the123501:12:07,890 --> 01:12:10,980transcript tag, or if you're notusing the chapters, then you're123601:12:10,980 --> 01:12:13,440not going to be able to do thatcool stuff that's going to123701:12:13,530 --> 01:12:16,950that's going to put pressure ongroups to be able to do those123801:12:16,950 --> 01:12:20,280things, which is going to helpus adopt that as a standard,123901:12:20,310 --> 01:12:22,680because now we can point to itand say, look that don't you124001:12:22,680 --> 01:12:25,200want to do that? That's what yougot to do to be able to meet124101:12:25,200 --> 01:12:25,860this standard?124201:12:27,000 --> 01:12:30,060Adam Curry: No. And that'sreally, I really, you got to124301:12:30,060 --> 01:12:32,460explain that to me again, whatdo we have to do?124401:12:33,510 --> 01:12:35,670Unknown: What you're doing isgreat, what you're doing is124501:12:35,670 --> 01:12:38,340innovating and coming up withthose things so that as they get124601:12:38,340 --> 01:12:41,130more adoption, we can point tothem and say, Look, that's what,124701:12:41,250 --> 01:12:44,070that's what you've got to dowrite like, that's what people124801:12:44,070 --> 01:12:48,690want. And we can make that partof our standard. But we've got124901:12:48,690 --> 01:12:51,330to get enough people on ourstandard have the appetite or125001:12:51,330 --> 01:12:52,800the willpower to implement it.125101:12:52,890 --> 01:12:55,860Adam Curry: I think the markettakes care of that for yourself.125201:12:55,890 --> 01:13:00,120I mean, I don't want to tellanybody what to do. But if if I125301:13:00,120 --> 01:13:04,170have transcripts, and my myaudience enjoys my transcripts,125401:13:04,440 --> 01:13:08,160and the hosting company, I'musing screws them up with Dai,125501:13:08,820 --> 01:13:12,300then I'll probably find a betterdia de ai provider. And I think125601:13:12,300 --> 01:13:15,150the the market for solves that.I don't think that we need to125701:13:15,150 --> 01:13:15,960tell anybody.125801:13:16,410 --> 01:13:19,470Unknown: Yeah, well, but whatpodcasting 2.0 did was provide125901:13:19,470 --> 01:13:23,220the way for that to happen.Right? If you guys didn't do the126001:13:23,220 --> 01:13:25,950transcript tag, if you didn'tadvocate for that and get some126101:13:25,950 --> 01:13:29,280adoption, the market wouldn'teven know. Right, you know,126201:13:30,720 --> 01:13:32,550Adam Curry: then it's, thenwhoever doesn't do that,126301:13:32,550 --> 01:13:34,770eventually people will say Idon't like it, and they'll leave126401:13:34,770 --> 01:13:37,530and they'll go somewhere else.Right? Because transcript Oh, I126501:13:37,530 --> 01:13:39,630mean, that's I thoughttranscript was solved. I mean,126601:13:39,630 --> 01:13:44,280we're still working on it. Butonce we get down to the right126701:13:44,280 --> 01:13:46,980resolution, and everything, Ihope everyone implemented and126801:13:46,980 --> 01:13:50,130everyone tries to make it assimple as synchronized as126901:13:50,130 --> 01:13:52,080possible with with the actualaudio.127001:13:53,670 --> 01:13:55,860Dave Jones: We have to see thesyncing with the audio is just127101:13:55,890 --> 01:14:00,630is because it's like we'rehaving debates about about word127201:14:00,630 --> 01:14:03,990level synchronization orsentence level synchronization127301:14:04,020 --> 01:14:08,700when one ad slot comes by andthe whole thing is way off is 10127401:14:08,700 --> 01:14:13,950seconds. 30 seconds off anyway.And that's just it. The the the,127501:14:14,850 --> 01:14:17,340I see it as a as a disregard.127601:14:17,370 --> 01:14:19,440Adam Curry: But yeah, if you'rea hosting provider, and you127701:14:19,440 --> 01:14:23,280provide transcripts, and youprovide ad insertions you need127801:14:23,280 --> 01:14:24,720to solve that as I don't127901:14:24,720 --> 01:14:27,060Unknown: think they do. Yeah, Ithink if you're doing if you're128001:14:27,060 --> 01:14:29,310doing you're not doingtranscripts,128101:14:29,340 --> 01:14:31,110Adam Curry: no, but you do both.You just said you did.128201:14:31,560 --> 01:14:34,770Unknown: Right, we do. Yeah, butI'm saying that the people that128301:14:34,770 --> 01:14:37,920we're talking about we're notcalling out anybody by name, but128401:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,840the people that we're talkingabout that's what they're not128501:14:39,840 --> 01:14:42,300providing transcripts. Right soI don't think that's the problem128601:14:42,300 --> 01:14:44,670is that they're not shiftedcorrectly. I think it's just128701:14:44,670 --> 01:14:46,680they're not they're just notproviding transcripts.128801:14:46,710 --> 01:14:48,330Adam Curry: Okay. All right.Well, let's they start to128901:14:48,360 --> 01:14:51,600provide transcripts then theyneed to do that properly.129001:14:51,600 --> 01:14:53,250Otherwise people's age not good.129101:14:53,520 --> 01:14:56,640Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. Cuzthat's, that's the that's the129201:14:56,640 --> 01:15:00,420big the big pushback thathappens with me, Mark Joe said129301:15:00,420 --> 01:15:04,770it on on, on that podcast thattime he's like, Well, if you get129401:15:04,800 --> 01:15:07,980chapters and transcripts,they're great. But then as soon129501:15:07,980 --> 01:15:10,530as you get to an ad slot, itscrews them all up. Well, if129601:15:10,530 --> 01:15:13,740that's the perception out there,that's really sloppy. That's129701:15:13,770 --> 01:15:16,740that's sloppy. You know ifthat's the perception that that129801:15:16,740 --> 01:15:17,820other app developers,129901:15:18,120 --> 01:15:20,220Adam Curry: and that's my point.So if you're providing130001:15:20,220 --> 01:15:24,720transcripts, and you don't haveyour your da, I rejigger the130101:15:24,720 --> 01:15:32,430timing, you can't have a logo.All right. Yes. That's the only130201:15:32,430 --> 01:15:37,410shame we can use no logo foryou. Exactly. Can I just move130301:15:37,410 --> 01:15:40,590the conversation to a littlething from the front lines? To130401:15:41,520 --> 01:15:45,570noster? Do I hear and deliver?Did everyone go? Oh,130501:15:46,410 --> 01:15:48,210Dave Jones: yeah, did I meanI'll do it. Yeah.130601:15:49,380 --> 01:15:51,510Adam Curry: I'm just gonna keeptelling you that there's130701:15:51,510 --> 01:15:54,930something there. And there'ssomething going on with this.130801:15:54,960 --> 01:16:00,900And they're working on fig. Gigiposted a very thoughtful article130901:16:01,320 --> 01:16:08,520about how noster zaps could besplit into and to respect131001:16:08,520 --> 01:16:14,100splits, in podcast. So in effectand make a noster. You could131101:16:14,100 --> 01:16:19,080have an austere app or paymentsystem or mechanism that would131201:16:19,080 --> 01:16:24,840respect the splits in the valueblock. They call it prism or131301:16:24,840 --> 01:16:30,600whatever. I know that people areworking on connecting podcast131401:16:30,600 --> 01:16:35,370good to, to noster identity.131501:16:36,750 --> 01:16:41,160Dave Jones: Well, what? I don'tknow about this? No, I guess131601:16:41,160 --> 01:16:42,540show good show goods.131701:16:42,570 --> 01:16:47,790Adam Curry: Yes. So that you soI could as part of my Nasir131801:16:47,790 --> 01:16:51,450identity, I could connectanything to that I can connect131901:16:51,450 --> 01:16:53,880an Albea wallet, I can Can Ishould be able to connect my132001:16:53,880 --> 01:16:57,510podcast goods to it. These arethe it would be the the132101:16:57,510 --> 01:16:59,880ownership of the source oftruth, I think is what the132201:16:59,880 --> 01:17:03,030concept is. That makes sense.132301:17:03,900 --> 01:17:11,160Dave Jones: Yeah, that it's notanti Nasr. It's just that I just132401:17:11,190 --> 01:17:13,830I'm having a really hard timegetting it's like getting132501:17:13,830 --> 01:17:18,630excited about it. Because it'sthe model. The model is132601:17:18,630 --> 01:17:22,980basically them forgive me, Iknow that's not 100% accurate.132701:17:22,980 --> 01:17:28,260But loosely, it's it's Tor isthe Tor network. I mean, you132801:17:28,260 --> 01:17:36,180have nostre has relays Tor hasexit exit nodes. And to me if132901:17:36,180 --> 01:17:39,900everything ultimately has to gothrough these relays or these133001:17:39,930 --> 01:17:47,700exit nodes, I don't see where atall, ultimately you get the133101:17:47,700 --> 01:17:52,620sense you how do you avoid thecensorship. Because every every133201:17:52,980 --> 01:17:56,730I can tell you in a court at acorporate level, every firewall133301:17:56,790 --> 01:18:04,860package has built into it a rulecalled Tor exit nodes, you just133401:18:04,890 --> 01:18:08,280enable the rule and now yournetwork is completely cut off133501:18:08,280 --> 01:18:12,180from Tor. The same thing couldhave the same thing can easily133601:18:12,180 --> 01:18:14,670be done with an austere you justimmediately cut it133701:18:14,670 --> 01:18:18,000Adam Curry: off. That's not atall what I'm excited about.133801:18:18,570 --> 01:18:22,380Okay, the experience I have, Idon't care how it works. I mean,133901:18:22,380 --> 01:18:25,800I understand a lot of it, Idon't understand enough of it.134001:18:26,880 --> 01:18:30,510By the way, tours satisfies mevery well every single day, I134101:18:30,510 --> 01:18:34,110have multiple nodes here at homerunning on it, I'm very happy, I134201:18:34,110 --> 01:18:40,500get payments in and out throughthe Tor network. So and I'm not134301:18:40,500 --> 01:18:44,280excited about censorshipresistant, any more than I am134401:18:44,280 --> 01:18:48,000about Bitcoin being censorshipresistant. What I find exciting134501:18:48,000 --> 01:18:54,240is I own my identity. This thisis the exciting part to me, I134601:18:54,240 --> 01:18:58,530owe my identity to such a degreethat I now actually have a134701:18:58,530 --> 01:19:03,090little nostril relay on myumbrella. So everything that I134801:19:03,120 --> 01:19:08,730do is basically backed up there.And so even if it's thrown off134901:19:08,730 --> 01:19:13,290of all the relays whatever, byhat by hat, my stuff and I find135001:19:13,290 --> 01:19:19,140it the intriguing part to me isthat no matter what app or135101:19:19,140 --> 01:19:23,880service or anything that I'veused, I show up and I put in my135201:19:23,910 --> 01:19:28,500public key and it knows who I amand it knows about stuff that I135301:19:28,500 --> 01:19:30,810have. That's exciting to me.135401:19:31,890 --> 01:19:35,490Dave Jones: Now I get you know,I get you it pushes it pushes135501:19:35,490 --> 01:19:38,490identity down the chain from theserver level to the client135601:19:38,490 --> 01:19:40,980Adam Curry: let correct and whatI'm what I'm seeing is135701:19:40,980 --> 01:19:43,800interesting things that you cando with that with with that135801:19:43,800 --> 01:19:48,210specific thing. I don't care ifit if it ran over to tin cans135901:19:48,210 --> 01:19:52,050and a string. I like that partof the something about it that I136001:19:52,050 --> 01:19:55,260like I'm just going to keepidentifying it. So when someone136101:19:55,260 --> 01:19:58,560says hey, if you have a podcastgood we can connect that to it.136201:19:58,590 --> 01:20:02,280I can see kind of conceptSurely, what can be done with136301:20:02,280 --> 01:20:06,600that? Just feels like this, youknow, this public private key136401:20:06,600 --> 01:20:08,370thing? That's what attracted meto Bitcoin?136501:20:09,750 --> 01:20:13,530Dave Jones: Well, it feels, Idon't know, I think the136601:20:13,560 --> 01:20:20,850cryptographically secureidentity is oh, I'm trying to136701:20:20,850 --> 01:20:25,380figure out the right way toexpress this. Mine's my, my136801:20:25,380 --> 01:20:31,110first idea was to say that isoverrated. I'm not sure that's136901:20:31,110 --> 01:20:33,120accurate, that I'm not surethat's an accurate137001:20:33,120 --> 01:20:36,450representation of what mythoughts are, though. Here,137101:20:36,480 --> 01:20:42,720here's a, I run into this fromtime to time. Where, and, and137201:20:42,720 --> 01:20:49,230seeing as how everything aroundnoster very much emphasizes the137301:20:49,260 --> 01:20:51,330censorship resistance angle.137401:20:51,390 --> 01:20:53,520Adam Curry: Now, that's justthat's just the early adopters137501:20:53,520 --> 01:20:56,370who just were talking aboutthat. And those guys, most of137601:20:56,370 --> 01:20:59,520them are talking out of theirass. They're extremely excited137701:20:59,520 --> 01:21:03,150people. And they think, oh,yeah, I mean, believe me, every137801:21:03,180 --> 01:21:06,840email should be on noster I gotit. Okay. But that's not going137901:21:06,840 --> 01:21:10,830to happen. Right? I understandthat, that, but I'm mindful my138001:21:10,860 --> 01:21:14,490own book, I've been around, I'vepicked things up unusually,138101:21:14,490 --> 01:21:17,910pretty early. I'm just feelingsomething here. I'm gonna keep138201:21:17,910 --> 01:21:22,140saying it, because something ishappening with it. That is, that138301:21:22,140 --> 01:21:26,250is beyond the technical bullshitand beyond, beyond whatever's138401:21:26,250 --> 01:21:30,540left or the toxic Bitcoinersthere's something going on, it's138501:21:30,540 --> 01:21:35,970a very, there's a lot ofpositive energy. And, and I'm138601:21:36,000 --> 01:21:40,920just, I, I can't build anything,I can't do anything. But you138701:21:40,920 --> 01:21:43,350know, people come to me and say,Well, how about this? Oh, that138801:21:43,350 --> 01:21:46,860sounds pretty cool. And there'sgonna be stuff coming out of it.138901:21:46,860 --> 01:21:51,630And I don't want to be so lockedup in transcript resolution that139001:21:51,630 --> 01:21:53,880we forget to look at otherthings that are happening out139101:21:53,880 --> 01:21:54,930there on the battlefield?139201:21:55,380 --> 01:21:58,650Dave Jones: No, I don't reallyultimately have no I have no139301:21:58,650 --> 01:22:02,400problem with the nostril peopledoing, do it. I just got I got139401:22:02,400 --> 01:22:07,260no problem with it. I guess. Imean, my my issues with the139501:22:07,260 --> 01:22:10,260reason I I'm trying to explainwhy I can't, while I'm not more139601:22:10,260 --> 01:22:14,370excited about it. That's reallywhat it is. This is not Anton139701:22:14,370 --> 01:22:19,380Nasir, this is just really like,why is it not just really139801:22:19,380 --> 01:22:24,030lighten me up. And it's, I mean,like concrete, concrete,139901:22:24,060 --> 01:22:28,530cryptographically, secureidentity only, it only matters,140001:22:28,530 --> 01:22:33,870it's only desirable when there'strust. Like, in a in a140101:22:33,870 --> 01:22:39,570situation, where you have agroup, a group setting, let's140201:22:39,570 --> 01:22:43,560just use Mastodon, for instance,and podcast index dot social, I140301:22:43,560 --> 01:22:49,860do want an identity that isstable and secure. And proven. I140401:22:49,860 --> 01:22:53,370want when I post the podcast,index dot social, I want to be140501:22:53,370 --> 01:22:59,010known as Dave. And you know, ina way that nobody else can140601:22:59,010 --> 01:23:05,100tinker with, or mimic orimpersonate outside of that140701:23:05,100 --> 01:23:12,090context. Concrete identity proofbecomes not it's just it becomes140801:23:12,090 --> 01:23:17,400a lot less desirable. Like, inthe big example would be, if140901:23:17,400 --> 01:23:21,510you're commenting on a randomperson's blog post, in their141001:23:21,510 --> 01:23:24,660comment thread on theirWordPress site, I don't really141101:23:24,660 --> 01:23:28,740want to use my identity on that,like, I may be making a comment141201:23:28,740 --> 01:23:33,870on there. That's in this, this,this blog post is controversial.141301:23:33,870 --> 01:23:37,590And I may have a controversialopinion. And I and I'm not141401:23:37,590 --> 01:23:40,800really comfortable tagging mycryptographically secure141501:23:40,800 --> 01:23:45,990identity to this thing, like atonce you leave sort of a a141601:23:45,990 --> 01:23:52,470trusted network and go out intoother areas, concrete identity141701:23:52,470 --> 01:23:57,450becomes becomes less desirableand can all and can be even a141801:23:57,450 --> 01:23:58,260liability.141901:23:58,769 --> 01:24:01,829Adam Curry: You know, obviously,the simple answer is I have an142001:24:01,829 --> 01:24:05,699identity for this, I have anidentity for that. And I do I142101:24:05,699 --> 01:24:09,269you know, I'm going to have anidentity for Pornhub. At this142201:24:09,269 --> 01:24:11,699now I'm not going to use thesame keys that I'm using for142301:24:11,699 --> 01:24:14,909other things. When it comes tospecifically the mastodon142401:24:14,909 --> 01:24:19,679example. I know that in general,if I wanted to move my my142501:24:19,679 --> 01:24:23,459identity, well, my account nowmy identity, my username and my142601:24:23,489 --> 01:24:26,939followers, etc. And my post, Ican move that to another server,142701:24:27,209 --> 01:24:30,899but I don't get the sameidentity, that's a new identity.142801:24:31,079 --> 01:24:35,219And someone else can prohibit mefrom doing that. It's not. We're142901:24:35,219 --> 01:24:38,159seeing it in two completelydifferent ways, for me is the143001:24:38,159 --> 01:24:40,859idea of here's my stuff that'sin this little ball, and I can143101:24:40,859 --> 01:24:43,829take it anywhere I want. I canplug it in there, and all my143201:24:43,829 --> 01:24:46,559stuff is going to come up or thethings that I need to connect143301:24:46,619 --> 01:24:49,799for that particular environmentare going to come up you know,143401:24:49,799 --> 01:24:53,129there's like high blood dotnews, which is not a part of143501:24:53,129 --> 01:24:57,419noster not a part of the socialnetwork noster that uses the143601:24:57,419 --> 01:25:02,249same identity and then boomBoom, I put that in there, I can143701:25:02,249 --> 01:25:05,399write a newsletter that peoplecan subscribe to which is143801:25:05,399 --> 01:25:08,459outside of the nostril, thesocial network, I found that to143901:25:08,459 --> 01:25:12,449be very empowering. All I did isI put in my key, my, my, my, my144001:25:12,449 --> 01:25:15,959face pops up stuff that I wantknown about me pops up. And it's144101:25:15,959 --> 01:25:19,229a whole different environment,in fact that I'll move it away144201:25:19,229 --> 01:25:23,639from noster. This is what I alsofind so attractive about using144301:25:23,879 --> 01:25:28,559booster grams. And I just wantedto throw out there as an as a144401:25:28,559 --> 01:25:33,689thought that I would be happy toput pod verse as an example,144501:25:33,899 --> 01:25:37,829into a split to have my boosterand I've completely done a 180144601:25:37,829 --> 01:25:40,379on the booster gram publicbooster grams, to have my144701:25:40,379 --> 01:25:44,339booster grams that people sendto me for the for that podcast144801:25:44,489 --> 01:25:49,829to show up on pod verseunderneath that episode, I would144901:25:49,829 --> 01:25:53,279love to pay for that privilege.And for every other app, if145001:25:53,279 --> 01:25:57,449possible. These these are thingsthat are from a non technical145101:25:57,449 --> 01:26:00,809person. And I'm not really it'snot really about trust145201:26:00,839 --> 01:26:05,429cryptographically signed orcensorship resistant, I see145301:26:05,459 --> 01:26:09,299features and things that I cando with this particular thing. I145401:26:09,299 --> 01:26:12,899can't just do create, I cancreate a newsletter on a145501:26:12,899 --> 01:26:19,139different service with myMastodon account, I can't easily145601:26:19,139 --> 01:26:24,449make things appear on pod burstsunless I put a split in you see145701:26:24,449 --> 01:26:26,549these little things that I cando it makes me feel very145801:26:26,549 --> 01:26:32,069powerful as a content creator.Does that make sense? No. And145901:26:32,370 --> 01:26:35,610Dave Jones: you've, you've madesense to me since the beginning,146001:26:35,610 --> 01:26:40,980I fully understand why the whyyou're high on it. And the I146101:26:40,980 --> 01:26:41,490really did.146201:26:42,480 --> 01:26:43,890Adam Curry: I wouldn't say I'mhigh on it.146301:26:45,300 --> 01:26:47,010Dave Jones: You're prettyexcited about I am I have146401:26:47,130 --> 01:26:49,410Adam Curry: I do have excitementabout it. And I see that when I146501:26:49,410 --> 01:26:53,340see other people running aroundand excited about things. I want146601:26:53,340 --> 01:26:55,470to jump in the middle go this isexciting. What do we do? What do146701:26:55,470 --> 01:26:59,580we do? And then I seeopportunities, and I get a146801:26:59,580 --> 01:27:03,630strong pushback from thepodcasting 2.0 crowd. Well,146901:27:03,690 --> 01:27:05,580that's my feeling my feeling.147001:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,490Dave Jones: Yeah, it's not astrong it's not eight. I147101:27:08,490 --> 01:27:15,090wouldn't classify my me as apush back. It's more of like I147201:27:15,090 --> 01:27:18,810said, there's there's a wholethere's a whole discussion here147301:27:18,810 --> 01:27:25,590around like booster grants, forinstance. I'm really glad that147401:27:25,590 --> 01:27:30,420booster grams don't haveidentity tied to them. I don't147501:27:30,420 --> 01:27:31,740like it. I don't know I147601:27:33,060 --> 01:27:34,860Adam Curry: don't have it. But Idon't I'm not saying I want147701:27:34,860 --> 01:27:37,020booster grams with identity. I'mnot saying that.147801:27:37,320 --> 01:27:39,060Dave Jones: I didn't think youwere I didn't think you were I'm147901:27:39,060 --> 01:27:42,510saying what I'm saying is likethere is value, the not the148001:27:42,510 --> 01:27:47,040nostril ethic, the nostrilexcuse me, the nostril ethos is148101:27:47,640 --> 01:27:52,740identity, identity identity.It's just it's that is the that148201:27:52,740 --> 01:27:58,230is the substrate that nosterlives and breathes on. And is148301:27:58,230 --> 01:28:01,800cryptographically secureidentity that is owned by you.148401:28:02,340 --> 01:28:05,190When I guess what I'm what I'msaying is outside of a148501:28:05,190 --> 01:28:09,720particularly outside of atrusted context. I don't see the148601:28:09,720 --> 01:28:16,680value of it. Like, like, I getwhat you're saying that you can,148701:28:16,680 --> 01:28:19,020oh, we'll just have differentidentities. But if I have all148801:28:19,020 --> 01:28:22,080these identities for everythingelse I'm doing except this one,148901:28:22,380 --> 01:28:25,860well, then it's it. It doesn'teven matter if it's an identity149001:28:25,860 --> 01:28:28,620anymore, I could just make itup, which is essentially what149101:28:28,620 --> 01:28:32,730happens in booster grams, youjust, you just your name is just149201:28:32,730 --> 01:28:34,980whatever you type into the box,when you send the booster gram,149301:28:35,190 --> 01:28:37,650you don't have an identity. Sothere's it doesn't even matter.149401:28:38,460 --> 01:28:41,100That's what I'm saying isoutside of the, the149501:28:41,310 --> 01:28:43,770Adam Curry: okay, but I'm sorry,I shouldn't have conflated those149601:28:43,770 --> 01:28:48,330two, because I have I don't givea shit about fucking identity. I149701:28:48,330 --> 01:28:51,600care about this thing that I canuse that I can do stuff with.149801:28:52,260 --> 01:28:57,000You see that and that's whateverethos is noster is not my ethos.149901:28:57,210 --> 01:29:01,350I'm seeing a cool way to connectthings with something that I150001:29:01,350 --> 01:29:04,050actually control instead ofhaving to have someone else150101:29:04,050 --> 01:29:07,350maintain control over it. That'sthe same as booster grams. I can150201:29:07,350 --> 01:29:11,070send a booster gram to someoneno one can stop me. I love that.150301:29:11,610 --> 01:29:15,900That's what I love about it. Andthen it it150401:29:15,930 --> 01:29:19,170Dave Jones: because you tied anidentity to it. Mike Boone150501:29:19,170 --> 01:29:19,560stopped150601:29:19,980 --> 01:29:22,860Adam Curry: an identity. Whatdifference does it make? It150701:29:22,860 --> 01:29:25,200could be it could be a newidentity every single time it150801:29:25,200 --> 01:29:27,480could make a new one every time.That's my opinion.150901:29:27,930 --> 01:29:30,030Dave Jones: In this day, I'mglad you said I'm glad you151001:29:30,030 --> 01:29:32,040brought that up because that'sexactly what happened with151101:29:32,040 --> 01:29:36,480Bitcoin Core. In the beginningin the early early early days of151201:29:36,480 --> 01:29:41,160Bitcoin everybody tended toreuse the same wallet ID because151301:29:41,160 --> 01:29:44,850it was sort of it was sort oflike an identity. The this this151401:29:44,850 --> 01:29:48,270public key and rapidly peoplegot away from that because they151501:29:48,270 --> 01:29:51,690wanted the privacy now you neverdo you always generate a new151601:29:51,690 --> 01:29:58,950wallet, wallet ID with everytransaction. And so like the the151701:29:59,280 --> 01:30:03,720the digital I Identity aspect ofNorth noster. Because it is so151801:30:03,720 --> 01:30:08,700baked into the ethos, it it. Isee it becoming a liability more151901:30:08,700 --> 01:30:09,000than152001:30:09,690 --> 01:30:12,120Adam Curry: I think that's whereyou are. I don't think that this152101:30:12,150 --> 01:30:15,450that there's an ethos at all.But I think that there's a lot152201:30:15,450 --> 01:30:19,410of people who say things andthere's there's impressions. I152301:30:19,410 --> 01:30:22,920don't think I have any Nasrethos, I think I'm coming in,152401:30:22,920 --> 01:30:26,280and I see that I can do stuffwith it, but I can't do with152501:30:26,280 --> 01:30:27,120anything else.152601:30:27,360 --> 01:30:29,460Dave Jones: But you don't runthe network, you don't have a152701:30:29,460 --> 01:30:32,250nostre ethos, but you're not,but you're not you're not152801:30:32,250 --> 01:30:35,040building what they're building,they're building it and they do152901:30:35,040 --> 01:30:36,600have an ethos, that's153001:30:36,690 --> 01:30:39,510Adam Curry: that I challenge youon that. I don't think there's153101:30:39,510 --> 01:30:42,810one there. There. I thinkthere's lots of people doing153201:30:42,810 --> 01:30:47,100lots of different things.There's, it's, there's, you153301:30:47,100 --> 01:30:50,790know, there's, there's item typeone, and that's the social153401:30:50,790 --> 01:30:54,600network, you know, there, therecan be so many different things153501:30:54,600 --> 01:31:00,450with this. That's kind of thepoint. Okay, so leave that where153601:31:00,450 --> 01:31:04,260it is. Let's just talk aboutbooster grams. I like booster153701:31:04,260 --> 01:31:09,510grams as a feature of podcasting2.0 that no one else has that no153801:31:09,510 --> 01:31:16,170other that and we know that theYouTube and an apple and153901:31:16,170 --> 01:31:20,130Spotify, they're never going tohave it, that it's not within154001:31:20,130 --> 01:31:26,340their corporate DNA, I wouldlike to do more with it, within154101:31:26,340 --> 01:31:30,960podcasting 2.0 That's the onesuper advantage we have over154201:31:31,200 --> 01:31:36,540anything else. Which is why, asa start, I'm suggesting doing154301:31:36,540 --> 01:31:39,900one ad on where it wasinitially, I would like to have154401:31:39,930 --> 01:31:45,720apps think about integratingbooster grams per episode that I154501:31:45,720 --> 01:31:51,240can enable on their app bysending them a payment, putting154601:31:51,240 --> 01:31:55,440a split into my into my valueblock. Because I find that154701:31:55,440 --> 01:32:00,480exciting. So now I can addsomething new, that I can add,154801:32:00,510 --> 01:32:03,420it will be something I think isengaging. In fact, I know it's154901:32:03,420 --> 01:32:08,160engaging for people and andhowever any app handles that155001:32:08,160 --> 01:32:11,130lightning has, you know, hastheir or Fountain has their way155101:32:11,130 --> 01:32:14,280of doing it, I would like tosee, I'd like to be able to do155201:32:14,280 --> 01:32:17,370more with that my audience cando more interact more with me155301:32:17,370 --> 01:32:20,400and my podcast, that it shows upin different ways in different155401:32:20,400 --> 01:32:26,040forms inside of a podcast app.That's that is the atom ethos155501:32:26,040 --> 01:32:29,190that I also see possible withnoster. Does that make sense?155601:32:34,830 --> 01:32:37,320Dave Jones: You see, I mean,you're going this is you're155701:32:37,320 --> 01:32:40,890tying this back to I mean, thisis the fountain comments. It's155801:32:41,760 --> 01:32:44,700that that style of thing is thatyou're telling him that just155901:32:44,700 --> 01:32:48,510Adam Curry: Fountain has madecomments, I just be I just want156001:32:48,510 --> 01:32:51,210to show a leaderboard of mybooster grams, could be156101:32:51,210 --> 01:32:55,620anything, I want to do more withbooster grams. And I156201:32:55,620 --> 01:32:57,840Dave Jones: can already do that,right? You can already do the156301:32:57,870 --> 01:32:59,310histogram leaderboard and stuff,156401:32:59,580 --> 01:33:03,420Adam Curry: debit, I don'tprogram stuff. I'm looking for156501:33:04,110 --> 01:33:08,280app developers who want to stepoutside of the box and do other156601:33:08,280 --> 01:33:11,550things and come up with otherthings that we can do. So if we156701:33:11,550 --> 01:33:15,810have a lit tag, maybe an appcould have a, you know, a poll,156801:33:15,810 --> 01:33:19,260a live poll or a you know, votefor this or vote for that these156901:33:19,260 --> 01:33:23,280types of things are unique towhat we're doing outside of157001:33:23,310 --> 01:33:30,120every other big company, bigtech podcast experience. So I'm157101:33:30,120 --> 01:33:33,240identifying that as somethingthat we that is clearly working157201:33:33,270 --> 01:33:36,360because people like it. And Ithink that we can do more with157301:33:36,360 --> 01:33:36,810that.157401:33:38,280 --> 01:33:40,800Dave Jones: Double I mean,essentially saying double down157501:33:40,800 --> 01:33:44,550on the things that are unique.Yeah, definitely emphasize157601:33:44,580 --> 01:33:47,220emphasize the made like, youknow, build on top of those157701:33:47,220 --> 01:33:51,120things. Yeah, yes. Yeah, Iagree. Yeah, for sure. For sure.157801:33:51,540 --> 01:33:56,370I mean, like, I mean, I had thaton my notes is that is cute,157901:33:56,370 --> 01:34:00,390like polls. I mean, I don't knowwhat you think about this, Tom.158001:34:00,420 --> 01:34:05,790I mean, is polls something. I'vebeen kicking around for a while.158101:34:05,790 --> 01:34:10,080I mean, like, is it somethingworth doing in the namespace? Do158201:34:10,080 --> 01:34:12,000you think there's enough desireout there for something like158301:34:12,000 --> 01:34:13,950that? Um,158401:34:13,980 --> 01:34:15,900Unknown: I'm not sure. I think158501:34:17,070 --> 01:34:18,540Adam Curry: does have to be anamespace thing.158601:34:19,650 --> 01:34:21,660Dave Jones: I think it wouldhave to be defined. It may make158701:34:21,660 --> 01:34:25,080sense to have it for becauseoriginally we said okay, and158801:34:25,080 --> 01:34:27,090this is true. You could do it inchapters. I mean, you could do158901:34:27,090 --> 01:34:29,070it would just kick it out to aweb view, but that seems a159001:34:29,070 --> 01:34:29,820little chancy,159101:34:30,210 --> 01:34:32,340Adam Curry: but I'm donetalking. I'm talking pure159201:34:32,370 --> 01:34:35,880polling. I'm not I'm talkingabout polling through boosts.159301:34:37,350 --> 01:34:40,470Okay, so just so you know, I'mnot talking about a polling159401:34:40,470 --> 01:34:44,520system that I mean, a podcasthosts should even have to deal159501:34:44,520 --> 01:34:50,820with this. I don't think I mean,I, I'm talking about things that159601:34:52,020 --> 01:34:53,370maybe I'm wrong about that.159701:34:56,580 --> 01:35:00,060Dave Jones: If you define if youdefine like a pole, you You159801:35:00,060 --> 01:35:03,510know, you if we have some formthat what this is what a poll159901:35:03,510 --> 01:35:05,790is, and you can put thequestions and that kind of thing160001:35:05,790 --> 01:35:08,340like vote like, Yeah, I'm160101:35:08,340 --> 01:35:10,080Adam Curry: not looking forthat. I mean, I'm, I'm looking160201:35:10,080 --> 01:35:16,530for something as simple as Idon't know. I'm not creative160301:35:16,530 --> 01:35:20,880enough. And I certainly want to,I'd like to see stuff break and160401:35:20,910 --> 01:35:23,760mess around before we try andput anything into a namespace.160501:35:23,790 --> 01:35:26,430But it just seems like that's,that's where things go to be160601:35:26,430 --> 01:35:31,950argued about for a long time.And, and I get very, very bored.160701:35:32,490 --> 01:35:33,900Dave Jones: Or they come here tothis show, they160801:35:35,010 --> 01:35:36,090Unknown: go back to web hooks.160901:35:37,980 --> 01:35:40,350Adam Curry: I don't I don't meanit that way. It's like, okay, I161001:35:40,350 --> 01:35:42,960got I got the transcriptsworking. And when I'm told to do161101:35:42,960 --> 01:35:45,990it a different way. And like Iwhat do I get excited by get161201:35:45,990 --> 01:35:49,890excited by seeing Martin'sversion of transcripts? That161301:35:49,890 --> 01:35:52,380think that and that's, he'staking what is already161401:35:52,380 --> 01:35:54,660available, what will beavailable, I'm excited about161501:35:54,660 --> 01:35:58,500that part. And how and how thatworks under the hood is is a161601:35:58,500 --> 01:36:01,890different part. I'm just saying,I feel that there's so much more161701:36:01,890 --> 01:36:07,200exciting stuff we can do withthe uniqueness. I mean, it's not161801:36:07,200 --> 01:36:10,230a namespace thing like this,there's pew pew that's going161901:36:11,220 --> 01:36:17,220that's a feature that I have inmy live show. And if there's a162001:36:17,220 --> 01:36:20,580service that I can send a splitto, to have something else fly162101:36:20,580 --> 01:36:25,530off and spin and do somersaults,I want to do that. I'm trying to162201:36:25,530 --> 01:36:30,630say that there's more fun thingswe can do with our splits and162301:36:30,630 --> 01:36:34,170our payments, etc. Like boostbots, all these things are162401:36:34,170 --> 01:36:38,820really cool these things. Moreof that. It's not it's not I162501:36:38,820 --> 01:36:42,360don't think I'm even asking fora structured thing. I'm saying162601:36:42,360 --> 01:36:47,370where's the where's the we needmore creative crap going on with162701:36:47,370 --> 01:36:51,810something that is really, reallyworking and exciting, and I162801:36:51,810 --> 01:36:56,850think is much better than whatwhat the Nastar Ellen. Ellen URL162901:36:56,850 --> 01:37:00,870stuff is, and we can do so muchmore. That's what I'm saying.163001:37:05,820 --> 01:37:11,070Unknown: Kathrada tag you'retalking about? Has Has Adam163101:37:11,100 --> 01:37:12,330looked at the pod roll?163201:37:13,440 --> 01:37:14,340Adam Curry: Yes, of course.163301:37:14,910 --> 01:37:15,750Unknown: What do you think aboutthat?163401:37:16,320 --> 01:37:19,140Adam Curry: I hate the name. ButI understand the, to me, its163501:37:19,140 --> 01:37:23,700recommendations. You know, we'vehad this idea for a long time.163601:37:25,140 --> 01:37:33,120App developers are busy. I don'tknow. I mean, if it shows up,163701:37:33,120 --> 01:37:38,280I'll use it. You know, I'm, I'mprobably more interested right163801:37:38,280 --> 01:37:43,200now in the remote item where,you know, I can finally have a163901:37:43,230 --> 01:37:47,700music on my show. And then I'llbe able to send splits to the164001:37:47,850 --> 01:37:53,130owner and respect the splits ofthat owners work in the context164101:37:53,130 --> 01:37:58,050of my show. That will be more.That's an example of something164201:37:58,050 --> 01:38:02,400I'd like to do music in general.And we we see musicians showing164301:38:02,400 --> 01:38:06,780up in podcast apps. We're justleaving a lot on the table as,164401:38:07,590 --> 01:38:11,370as a creative group, not as apodcast. Body.164501:38:12,179 --> 01:38:17,249Dave Jones: Kevin, you I think,I think you brought up, you did164601:38:17,249 --> 01:38:20,819the pod roll. Right? You proposeto what was your? What was your164701:38:20,819 --> 01:38:22,709vision for that when you whenyou proposed it?164801:38:23,459 --> 01:38:28,169Unknown: The I hate algorithms.So yes, screw the algorithms164901:38:28,169 --> 01:38:32,429screw. I don't like the idea ofa podcast app listing my podcast165001:38:32,429 --> 01:38:35,519when someone's listening the theapp, trying to make a165101:38:35,519 --> 01:38:37,979recommendation of what theperson should listen to you165201:38:37,979 --> 01:38:41,639next, like I'm the show creator,the people who are listening,165301:38:41,669 --> 01:38:44,489like hearing what I'm talkingabout what they should be most165401:38:44,489 --> 01:38:48,899interested in what I recommend.And so just display, like, give165501:38:48,899 --> 01:38:51,659me an option, give me a tag thatI can put shows that I think165601:38:51,659 --> 01:38:54,569that my audience will also like,and display them165701:38:54,720 --> 01:38:57,000Adam Curry: was not the idea ofthe pod roll in the first place.165801:38:57,059 --> 01:39:00,449Unknown: Yeah, that's the idea.It's just stupid, simple. And I165901:39:00,449 --> 01:39:04,289think it would be great. Likeand we could put pressure on app166001:39:04,289 --> 01:39:08,699developers like whatever PocketCasts overcast Apple What Why166101:39:08,699 --> 01:39:11,279are you why are you who you whensomeone's listening to my166201:39:11,279 --> 01:39:14,789content, to push them in thedirection of your subscription166301:39:14,789 --> 01:39:17,009show or something that you're,you know, you're making 30%166401:39:17,009 --> 01:39:17,279Like,166501:39:17,310 --> 01:39:21,090Adam Curry: wow, you want to putpressure on people that's fuck166601:39:21,090 --> 01:39:23,400that noise. If that is166701:39:23,400 --> 01:39:26,340Unknown: in my RSS feed, andthen your list someone is166801:39:26,340 --> 01:39:29,040listening to my show, also showthe rest of my stuff, which is166901:39:29,040 --> 01:39:32,190the other shows I think youshould listen to. And then I167001:39:32,190 --> 01:39:34,380think if you if you want to goahead and do your algorithm167101:39:34,380 --> 01:39:35,700stuff, knock yourself out.167201:39:36,870 --> 01:39:41,850Dave Jones: I think it makessense because you have like the167301:39:41,880 --> 01:39:44,460the only thing you're left withis is I was listening to you167401:39:44,460 --> 01:39:48,000know, pod news weekly withtalking about a cast and167501:39:48,000 --> 01:39:52,080recommendations and the variousways that it's not just them167601:39:52,080 --> 01:39:54,270that lots of people do thiswhere they do the keyword167701:39:54,270 --> 01:39:56,370targeting and that kind ofthing. When you boil it down to167801:39:56,370 --> 01:40:00,180categories and keywords. It justalmost never works. Them Talking167901:40:00,180 --> 01:40:03,090about recommendation now foradvertising. That's I don't168001:40:03,090 --> 01:40:05,880know, I don't understand thatworld. But when it comes down to168101:40:05,880 --> 01:40:09,930recommendations by algorithm,God, it's just it's a mess that168201:40:09,930 --> 01:40:13,440it just never works. Becauseyou, you say, Okay, well, you168301:40:13,440 --> 01:40:16,680like, you know you like you'reclearly interested in news and168401:40:16,680 --> 01:40:20,280politics because you listen tono agenda. Yeah, but this is not168501:40:20,280 --> 01:40:23,610exactly news. And politics is acompletely different like, it's,168601:40:23,640 --> 01:40:27,660it's not the new. You listen tothis show, because it takes a168701:40:27,660 --> 01:40:31,260cat, you listen to a showbecause it takes a category or a168801:40:31,260 --> 01:40:36,060keyword type thing andinterjects some new life into168901:40:36,060 --> 01:40:41,220it. It's not about the category,it's about the content of that169001:40:41,220 --> 01:40:45,690specific show. And it's, that'san that's an intangible that you169101:40:45,690 --> 01:40:49,710can't quantify. Yeah, I totallyagree. It's just me169201:40:49,710 --> 01:40:52,740Unknown: being nostalgic. Also,like when in the 90s, I would go169301:40:52,740 --> 01:40:55,920to blog sites all the time,learn about my newsreader. And169401:40:55,920 --> 01:40:58,170how did I find the next blogthat I wanted to read? Usually,169501:40:58,170 --> 01:41:01,050from a recommendation of a blogI was already reading. And there169601:41:01,050 --> 01:41:04,140were no algorithms pushing me incertain directions. And I don't169701:41:04,140 --> 01:41:06,000necessarily think algorithms aremaking the world better,169801:41:06,060 --> 01:41:07,980probably making it worse. But169901:41:08,310 --> 01:41:12,060Dave Jones: you follow the blog,carnival didn't you can remember170001:41:12,060 --> 01:41:12,960a lot of carnivals.170101:41:13,170 --> 01:41:15,300Unknown: But I'd always go fromone to the next I'd be like, Oh,170201:41:15,300 --> 01:41:17,970I love the way that this personwrites. And I love what they170301:41:17,970 --> 01:41:20,100write about, what are theyreading, and that would always170401:41:20,100 --> 01:41:22,710be in their blog role. I waslike, that's just so simple and170501:41:22,710 --> 01:41:25,890beautiful. And that's what Iwant to bring back. I like it.170601:41:27,270 --> 01:41:30,450And so it's just simple. Andit's, and I felt like I just put170701:41:30,450 --> 01:41:33,360it out there and it was done.And then, you know, everyone170801:41:33,360 --> 01:41:35,880wants to debate it, and maybemake it more complicated. But170901:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,310some things are just so simplethat I think they should just be171001:41:38,310 --> 01:41:41,430done in the first place. Like,put a little slap emoji on it.171101:41:41,550 --> 01:41:45,210And I like, I like the use ofthe of the podcast quid because171201:41:45,210 --> 01:41:48,450it gets more people using thatas a unique identifier for171301:41:48,450 --> 01:41:49,200shows.171401:41:50,430 --> 01:41:52,740Dave Jones: Yeah, agreed. Ratherthan RSS feeds.171501:41:52,890 --> 01:41:55,980Adam Curry: Where are we on theGUID is that baked in? Are171601:41:55,980 --> 01:42:00,030people doing it is that? I lovethat idea. I think it's got171701:42:00,030 --> 01:42:02,250Dave Jones: broad adoption. Yes,guys. Yeah, pretty broad171801:42:02,250 --> 01:42:06,990adoption. At this point, I thinkI got halfway finished with a171901:42:07,020 --> 01:42:09,660good resolver. in it. I mean,it's functional, I just have to172001:42:09,660 --> 01:42:13,170go back and do do thededuplication work. And then172101:42:13,170 --> 01:42:15,330it'll be ready. If people canuse it. I mean, it should just172201:42:15,330 --> 01:42:17,310be like DNS DNS for goods.172301:42:17,370 --> 01:42:20,850Adam Curry: I love that. That.That is, there's a lot of things172401:42:20,850 --> 01:42:23,430that can be done with that. Andthen I think it also makes a lot172501:42:23,430 --> 01:42:27,330of other things, even stuff likeblog rolls or pod rolls easier.172601:42:27,900 --> 01:42:29,760Want to have, I think we havethe,172701:42:29,940 --> 01:42:32,700Dave Jones: I have the resolverdone that by the end of the172801:42:32,700 --> 01:42:33,030month.172901:42:33,960 --> 01:42:36,300Unknown: But let me just throwout something like as a as a173001:42:36,300 --> 01:42:39,120principle for when we're talkingabout building stuff when173101:42:39,150 --> 01:42:41,580primarily maybe in thenamespace, but but other places173201:42:41,580 --> 01:42:46,470as well. I feel like when we'retalking about, I mean, some of173301:42:46,470 --> 01:42:50,400these concepts can certainly getcomplicated. And sometimes it173401:42:50,400 --> 01:42:55,080can't be avoided, I feel like itwould be healthy for like the173501:42:55,260 --> 01:42:59,160specifically the namespace itwhen complication arises to try173601:42:59,190 --> 01:43:01,320like as a guiding principle totry to figure out how we can173701:43:01,320 --> 01:43:04,560push that complication on to thehosts. Now, Tom's not going to173801:43:04,560 --> 01:43:13,440love this. But I feel like wehave really good host support.173901:43:13,560 --> 01:43:18,150And, you know, businesses likeours, we're healthy, we've got174001:43:18,180 --> 01:43:21,750we've got a decent sized staff,we've got good resources, and we174101:43:21,750 --> 01:43:24,540have a business model that worksreally well. And then you also174201:43:24,540 --> 01:43:27,720have broad adoption and supportfor what's happening. So you174301:43:27,720 --> 01:43:29,640have Buzzsprout, you haverss.com, and transistor and174401:43:29,640 --> 01:43:32,310blueberry and captivate and inred circles, doing some things.174501:43:32,310 --> 01:43:35,910So there's like, we have somemaths, behind us on the app174601:43:35,910 --> 01:43:38,640side, the most support thatwe're getting are from174701:43:38,670 --> 01:43:44,130individual app developers, andthey don't have the resources to174801:43:44,190 --> 01:43:50,190take on complication. We do. Andso I would just again, it's I174901:43:50,190 --> 01:43:51,810mean, it doesn't make anybusiness sense for me to make175001:43:51,810 --> 01:43:54,780this argument. But I'd rathersee when complication arises175101:43:54,780 --> 01:43:59,580this instead of figuring out,you know, if there's the175201:43:59,580 --> 01:44:02,100possible possibility of movingthat complication to one side or175301:44:02,100 --> 01:44:04,050the other, like I say, move itto the host side,175401:44:04,080 --> 01:44:06,180Adam Curry: I'm in totalagreement. And I think here's175501:44:06,180 --> 01:44:08,880how it always works. And here'show you can see when things175601:44:08,880 --> 01:44:14,040work, or they don't. When peopleare creating content, no matter175701:44:14,040 --> 01:44:17,880what it is, if it's a persontag, that's content. So175801:44:17,910 --> 01:44:20,220obviously you have to beenabled. That's the chicken in175901:44:20,220 --> 01:44:25,650the egg. Nothing really moved inthe podcast in 2.0 project until176001:44:25,710 --> 01:44:30,390Steven B. And many people triedit and it's very hard to do. And176101:44:30,390 --> 01:44:34,080I'm Martin tried it and a lot ofpeople tried it to come up with176201:44:34,140 --> 01:44:38,970a very simple generator that waseasy to adapt, and to throw in a176301:44:38,970 --> 01:44:42,120new tag that we came up with.And Steven B did that with176401:44:42,120 --> 01:44:45,750sovereign feeds. I love him forthat. He's a he's a he's my hero176501:44:45,750 --> 01:44:50,220for doing that. So once we had atwo or three bigger shows like176601:44:50,220 --> 01:44:54,930no agenda, etc, using that thenapp start to implement it. And176701:44:54,930 --> 01:44:58,950they will implement the thingsthat that either are so176801:44:58,950 --> 01:45:00,990compelling that they will Wantto implement it because you176901:45:00,990 --> 01:45:03,120know, it's their creativity,they want to do whatever they177001:45:03,120 --> 01:45:07,500want to do. But without thecontent flowing through, then it177101:45:07,500 --> 01:45:11,370just never happens. So it is anatural place for it. And that's177201:45:11,370 --> 01:45:15,300why I love you guys. Because youtook the bull by the horns that,177301:45:15,300 --> 01:45:17,970okay, we're going to implementthis, even if no one's using it,177401:45:18,060 --> 01:45:21,930well, then people start to useit. And I predict, as it always177501:45:21,930 --> 01:45:25,860have, that eventually, if wehave enough transcripts enough177601:45:25,860 --> 01:45:29,970chapters enough, whatever it is,that every single app, even the177701:45:29,970 --> 01:45:33,240bigger apps will eventually, Imean, look, Pocket Casts is177801:45:33,240 --> 01:45:35,580going to start implementingthings because there's enough,177901:45:35,730 --> 01:45:38,160oh, it's a half percent who aredoing transcripts, they're going178001:45:38,160 --> 01:45:42,990to do it. They will, they willeventually do chapters two. So178101:45:42,990 --> 01:45:46,440it has to be from the publishingside. It always has to come from178201:45:46,440 --> 01:45:47,520the hosting companies.178301:45:48,150 --> 01:45:50,880Dave Jones: Yeah, that's wherethe egg is correct. Yeah. Yeah.178401:45:50,880 --> 01:45:51,270The chicken.178501:45:54,270 --> 01:45:58,740Adam Curry: And it's also wherethe where the education comes178601:45:58,740 --> 01:46:03,210from, you know, I will say thatthat's 60% of what hosting178701:46:03,210 --> 01:46:05,310companies do is educate theircustomers.178801:46:08,010 --> 01:46:11,160Dave Jones: What I what I wantto do, what I want to do is dive178901:46:11,160 --> 01:46:13,860in headlong to the TXT recorddiscussion, but I think we need179001:46:13,860 --> 01:46:14,610to thank some people.179101:46:14,640 --> 01:46:16,860Adam Curry: We definitely do.Wow, man. I thought we already179201:46:16,860 --> 01:46:18,450solved that with with the token.179301:46:18,930 --> 01:46:22,470Dave Jones: No, we do but I wantto talk. I wanted to go head on179401:46:22,470 --> 01:46:28,410not not not not fixing it. In Iwanted to go into a polemic and179501:46:28,410 --> 01:46:31,230apologetic for the TXT recordbecause it's getting some hate.179601:46:31,260 --> 01:46:33,120So good. Anyway, I'll save thatfor next week.179701:46:33,150 --> 01:46:34,620Adam Curry: Let me thank acouple of people who have come179801:46:34,620 --> 01:46:37,770in live and we appreciate thatand a value for value model. Of179901:46:37,770 --> 01:46:41,700course, Dred Scott has been allover the place. 12121 Thank you180001:46:41,700 --> 01:46:45,810boosting the pole. He says, Oh,the O L E is a different kind of180101:46:45,810 --> 01:46:50,820pole. I got it. Steven B with aSacher Richards 11,111. Finally180201:46:50,820 --> 01:46:53,310right realizing this episode,and I'm glad to announce music180301:46:53,310 --> 01:46:57,210side project now has the abilityto create custom playlists as as180401:46:57,210 --> 01:47:01,590any good music app should. Yeah,this is this has really taken180501:47:01,590 --> 01:47:05,910off. I mean, I'm plugging iteveryone's musicians are coming180601:47:05,910 --> 01:47:09,810to him. This is good. Drab withanother one to one to one drab.180701:47:09,930 --> 01:47:14,610I'm worried about Dred Scott canjust stop for a second draft.180801:47:15,030 --> 01:47:19,440I'm gonna say this because Ilove you. And the things you do180901:47:19,440 --> 01:47:23,490for podcasting to point out thethings you've done for my shows181001:47:23,610 --> 01:47:28,740the thing you've done for for noagenda. He's an Archduke Drib.181101:47:29,370 --> 01:47:32,580Please tell me you're notboosting away your kids college181201:47:32,580 --> 01:47:37,050fund. I just want to make sureI'm only half kidding. I get181301:47:37,050 --> 01:47:38,430worried when I see this.181401:47:38,760 --> 01:47:43,350Dave Jones: We will we startedwith namespace talk which he181501:47:43,350 --> 01:47:48,300went nuts. A lot. He lost it.What do you mean because that's181601:47:48,300 --> 01:47:49,590what he loves. He lovesnamespace.181701:47:52,200 --> 01:47:54,630Adam Curry: Stop my boost. Hesays no, there's no stop on the181801:47:54,630 --> 01:47:57,510boost. Exactly. Brian of London.1948 haven't been listening, but181901:47:57,510 --> 01:47:59,610I'm very grateful that pod thingwas put in the standard182001:47:59,610 --> 01:48:04,500excellent stuff. And there yougo, guys. Then we move to182101:48:04,530 --> 01:48:09,600another Brian have lunch. Ah,yes. This is the 31,948 Satoshis182201:48:09,600 --> 01:48:13,170boosting live from a restaurantin Cyprus. Not listening, but182301:48:13,170 --> 01:48:15,930I'm sure you just had somethingexcellent. Well, of course we182401:48:15,930 --> 01:48:22,860did. I did. Eric d p 33,333.Another Dred Scott except this182501:48:22,860 --> 01:48:26,040one is 121,212.182601:48:26,700 --> 01:48:30,450Unknown: Sad Carla 20 is Blazeon him. Paula182701:48:30,480 --> 01:48:32,400Adam Curry: that's when he wasboosting for the live boost182801:48:32,430 --> 01:48:33,150Unknown: to rip it182901:48:34,800 --> 01:48:37,200Adam Curry: up man is insane.I'm telling you. He's insane.183001:48:37,560 --> 01:48:42,180Our Davis 87 2000 pre boostinggo podcasting. You got it man.183101:48:42,180 --> 01:48:48,330Thank you chat. F 3333 Great preshow content, Alwyn contracts183201:48:48,330 --> 01:48:54,720that would be from contracts, Iguess. 12,001 2345 12,345 He183301:48:54,720 --> 01:48:58,500says episode split management.Come into contracts very soon.183401:48:58,500 --> 01:49:01,980Thanks, Dave. Yes. On onboardingthrough contracts love that183501:49:02,010 --> 01:49:03,240great idea. Very welcome.183601:49:03,240 --> 01:49:06,390Dave Jones: We gave him we gavehim a built in a Partner API183701:49:06,390 --> 01:49:07,920over the last few weeks.Fantastic183801:49:07,950 --> 01:49:10,800Adam Curry: guy I love now beingable to say hey, you want to183901:49:10,800 --> 01:49:14,190onboard the podcast and 2.0here's all these hosts. Here's184001:49:14,400 --> 01:49:18,180how you guys respond to that tobus browsers. You know, here's184101:49:18,180 --> 01:49:21,810these different different placesthis app you know this service I184201:49:21,810 --> 01:49:25,410love that tone record one on oneon one happy to report first184301:49:25,410 --> 01:49:28,380music collaboration happenedorganically on wave lake with184401:49:28,380 --> 01:49:31,560another artist in East Africa,finding a track I shared on184501:49:31,560 --> 01:49:35,400noster Oh, he added vocalsposted a new version the next184601:49:35,400 --> 01:49:39,090day even dropped a wave Lakeshout out in the new track. He's184701:49:39,090 --> 01:49:42,270now receiving SATs via V for Vand another adventure is184801:49:42,300 --> 01:49:48,510underway in music space. Whoohoo. Yes. Excellent them. I love184901:49:48,510 --> 01:49:53,040these collaborations. Then wehave meters with 5000 Thank you185001:49:53,040 --> 01:49:56,100meters hardhat one on one a onewith the pre boost. We185101:49:56,100 --> 01:50:00,840appreciate it. And I think wehave one On pre boost here185201:50:00,840 --> 01:50:06,630blueberry with the evil 66,666.He says he'd like to open his185301:50:06,630 --> 01:50:10,380theater up to value for valueticket sales called free will185401:50:10,380 --> 01:50:13,740donations by the play publisher.Do you all think the for V is185501:50:13,740 --> 01:50:16,620viable for live theater andwhere would you feel the best185601:50:16,620 --> 01:50:20,640spot for the Ask would be ie atthe website at the door pre show185701:50:20,640 --> 01:50:25,950announcement. Okay, I gottathink about this. That's that's185801:50:25,950 --> 01:50:29,310that goes a little bit beyondwhat my brain can handle today.185901:50:29,610 --> 01:50:32,280And then I hit the delimiter. Sothat is our pre boosters. We186001:50:32,280 --> 01:50:34,800appreciate it and Dave has morepeople to thank.186101:50:35,070 --> 01:50:37,110Dave Jones: I do we don't haveany Pay Pal. We fully186201:50:37,950 --> 01:50:40,140Adam Curry: fully we'vetransitioned. We're trans.186301:50:43,200 --> 01:50:45,180Dave Jones: We have but we dohave booths. We have many186401:50:45,180 --> 01:50:48,630booths. We have 2112 Rush boothsfrom Leslie yami says running186501:50:48,630 --> 01:50:51,840with scissors on needles andpins at Caroline's monkey by186601:50:51,840 --> 01:50:53,820Depeche Mode. Martin Linda's go,186701:50:53,849 --> 01:50:55,919Adam Curry: why'd you want thatone? We did that one didn't he?186801:50:55,919 --> 01:51:00,269Last week? He ordered again.Okay. We only play at once186901:51:00,269 --> 01:51:00,719Martin.187001:51:02,970 --> 01:51:05,700Dave Jones: The trickler thatwould be the sweetest trickler187101:51:06,630 --> 01:51:09,330500 says he's below the limitbut I'm gonna give him a one187201:51:09,330 --> 01:51:11,760anyway because pretty much gopodcasting.187301:51:12,300 --> 01:51:12,960Adam Curry: You got a man187401:51:13,860 --> 01:51:17,610Dave Jones: 6969 from Hey,citizen. He says boost boost.187501:51:19,440 --> 01:51:25,380Chip send us 22 to 23 throughpod versus boost it to the top.187601:51:26,460 --> 01:51:28,890Adam Curry: This these werethese are when we were singing187701:51:28,890 --> 01:51:31,200last week. I'm telling you this.I think we did these on the187801:51:31,200 --> 01:51:33,630premium did we? I think so.Yeah, I think we did these.187901:51:33,960 --> 01:51:36,570Dave Jones: Oh, you know whatgot Okay. All right. Yeah,188001:51:36,780 --> 01:51:39,810you're right. This got mebecause I started. We went we188101:51:39,810 --> 01:51:40,890did a Late Show. Yep.188201:51:41,280 --> 01:51:43,320Adam Curry: That's what it is.Yes. The timing was off. Of188301:51:43,320 --> 01:51:43,680course.188401:51:43,680 --> 01:51:47,250Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay. Let mejust go through here. That's188501:51:47,250 --> 01:51:50,580right. 859. Yeah, these are likethat night. Okay, I got you.188601:51:50,730 --> 01:51:54,930Okay, April 1. Here we go.Auburn citadel. 100,000 SATs.188701:51:55,980 --> 01:52:01,230Unknown: Bala. Sakala. 20. Isblades on am Paula.188801:52:01,860 --> 01:52:04,710Dave Jones: Yeah, your thanksfor reminding me. He says pura188901:52:04,710 --> 01:52:07,890vida. So whatever that means.That's another.189001:52:08,850 --> 01:52:11,490Adam Curry: That's, that isactually the icky stuff of189101:52:11,490 --> 01:52:12,150noster189201:52:12,660 --> 01:52:15,000Dave Jones: that this is thenostril ethos.189301:52:16,800 --> 01:52:19,800Adam Curry: Yeah, okay, Dave.It's the North. Yes, that's it,189401:52:19,860 --> 01:52:23,160where people say, Have a niceday and good night. Yeah, I know189501:52:23,160 --> 01:52:25,050the bunch of dicks over there.Can't believe189601:52:27,510 --> 01:52:30,300Dave Jones: that always just aside note, that always tells you189701:52:30,300 --> 01:52:33,510that that that you're in thehoneymoon phase of any189801:52:33,900 --> 01:52:36,480technology when you get themlike Hey, good morning.189901:52:36,510 --> 01:52:41,940Adam Curry: Yeah, no. Yeah, thatthat that is the noster social190001:52:41,940 --> 01:52:45,450media network ethos, right. Yes,I agree. I agree.190101:52:46,950 --> 01:52:51,120Dave Jones: Cast VLAN 3690 sayslove this show. We love you190201:52:51,120 --> 01:52:57,750cast, we're sure do like a smallsatchel of Richard 1111 from190301:52:57,750 --> 01:53:04,230Joel Wu. Do fountain no note. COMcCormack. 3333 says, Dave, you190401:53:04,230 --> 01:53:07,410need to start doing the Wim HofMethod to stop getting sick.190501:53:07,410 --> 01:53:08,700Yes, we've been190601:53:09,330 --> 01:53:12,030Adam Curry: just drink your beefshakes now that's190701:53:12,780 --> 01:53:16,170Dave Jones: nailed one row forthe show. Hey, hate to hear it.190801:53:16,200 --> 01:53:19,170I promise get healthy frombreathing the podcast need you190901:53:19,230 --> 01:53:24,090go podcasting? Yeah, yeah, yeah.25,001 SAS from Clarkie and my191001:53:24,090 --> 01:53:25,560buddy says Beep boop191101:53:27,990 --> 01:53:29,220Adam Curry: boop All right,191201:53:29,280 --> 01:53:32,820Dave Jones: boost. Justlistening since 300. SAS is191301:53:32,820 --> 01:53:36,090returning to the SAS on earnedwhile listening on fountain. I'm191401:53:36,090 --> 01:53:39,330a musician in a small town. Justgetting started and I'm going to191501:53:39,330 --> 01:53:42,690be launching my first albums inpodcasting. 2.0 By the end of191601:53:42,690 --> 01:53:43,740the year, wish me luck.191701:53:43,770 --> 01:53:47,130Adam Curry: Yeah, and by theway, it's not just fountain it191801:53:47,130 --> 01:53:50,790works on many other apps go topodcast apps.com And make sure191901:53:50,790 --> 01:53:53,400you promote all of them becausepeople will use them.192001:53:53,730 --> 01:53:57,450Dave Jones: It is properlydecentralized. Jean bien 4000192101:53:57,450 --> 01:54:00,810says Thank you Gina. He saysAdam talking about DJs today192201:54:00,810 --> 01:54:04,470makes me think about Tom Petty'sthe last SJ192301:54:05,550 --> 01:54:06,480Adam Curry: shot J192401:54:09,900 --> 01:54:13,320Dave Jones: gene been again 1337leet boosts he says maybe the192501:54:13,320 --> 01:54:18,540music part of PSP can be a cigSRG aka special interest group.192601:54:19,650 --> 01:54:23,190You have lobbyists now okay.That's how things like this are192701:54:23,190 --> 01:54:24,600done in the Linux ecosystem192801:54:24,630 --> 01:54:26,610Adam Curry: right Usenet groupuse192901:54:27,780 --> 01:54:30,720Dave Jones: you're gonna belobbied the Kevin I mean, do193001:54:30,720 --> 01:54:33,420people are gonna be you're gonnabe having to pressured with193101:54:33,420 --> 01:54:37,890bribes and such do multiplethings. You willing, you're193201:54:37,890 --> 01:54:40,110willing to go up against thatand try to stay true to193301:54:40,980 --> 01:54:42,870Unknown: my agreement in NewYork have193401:54:45,150 --> 01:54:48,510Dave Jones: been again 1330 saysmaybe this is a duplicate. I193501:54:48,510 --> 01:54:52,260hope that whatever ends up beingused for chat is at a minimum193601:54:52,260 --> 01:54:56,640bridgeable to matrix like IRC isI'd like to avoid having yet193701:54:56,640 --> 01:54:59,640another client. Fair enough.193801:55:00,000 --> 01:55:02,910Adam Curry: Have you? Well, thatis something worth talking about193901:55:02,910 --> 01:55:04,650next week. Yes.194001:55:05,910 --> 01:55:11,670Dave Jones: Bad career advice,Chad. Exhibit 2222 is a serious194101:55:11,670 --> 01:55:16,200suggestion might I recommend newmedia stat New Media Standards194201:55:16,200 --> 01:55:20,430Project? This is a named Jay. Hecan sit it can solve both194301:55:20,430 --> 01:55:22,230podcasting and music. Now wewere194401:55:22,650 --> 01:55:27,930Adam Curry: talking about thatwe needed to add music on 2.0194501:55:27,930 --> 01:55:28,860value for value.194601:55:29,280 --> 01:55:32,130Dave Jones: That's right. Badadvice. suggestion. Also could194701:55:32,130 --> 01:55:34,680be the eventual defining bodyfor when someone creates a V for194801:55:34,680 --> 01:55:38,190V version of only fans, newmedia all types. Well, that's a194901:55:38,190 --> 01:55:39,090completely separate195001:55:39,300 --> 01:55:42,540Adam Curry: ROI as promised thatfor three years, never gonna do195101:55:42,540 --> 01:55:44,910it. And never he's in charge ofthat subcommittee of the border.195201:55:45,000 --> 01:55:51,210Has anyone did chyron pickup theCossack podcaster. Lady? He said195301:55:51,210 --> 01:55:51,990he's going to195401:55:52,380 --> 01:55:56,370Dave Jones: Yeah, yes, she's.He's on boarded her. She's on195501:55:56,370 --> 01:55:58,140the ship. Both her shows are Vfor V.195601:55:58,320 --> 01:56:01,020Adam Curry: Oh, okay. Well,good. Then we can have her on195701:56:01,020 --> 01:56:01,500the show.195801:56:02,250 --> 01:56:06,660Dave Jones: Notes. I guess itcould be interesting. Sir Doug195901:56:06,660 --> 01:56:11,22010,000 sets he says it's been awhile. Okay, thanks. Sorry,196001:56:11,220 --> 01:56:15,900Doug. Long time no, see. Boriskudelski 10,000 SATs he says196101:56:15,900 --> 01:56:18,150what do you think about podcastAnders project? You know what,196201:56:18,150 --> 01:56:20,040we love it worse.196301:56:21,210 --> 01:56:23,820Adam Curry: We have the twotalked about it in great detail196401:56:24,210 --> 01:56:27,690Dave Jones: to ambassadors righthere. Karen Speak of the devil196501:56:28,380 --> 01:56:32,730for the mere mortals podcast4119 through pod verse, he says196601:56:32,730 --> 01:56:34,890draining this random wallet.Thanks for both of your help196701:56:34,890 --> 01:56:35,910this week. chyron196801:56:36,000 --> 01:56:39,450Adam Curry: by the way, did youhear his episode with Sam Sethi196901:56:39,450 --> 01:56:45,390CEO of pod fans? It is next onmy list. qua Sam Sethi is an197001:56:45,420 --> 01:56:49,740interesting dude. I just thoughtyeah, it's just some random197101:56:49,740 --> 01:56:54,390Indian British guy. Yeah.Spoilers don't get me very very,197201:56:54,390 --> 01:56:57,150very interesting guy. Yeah, butyou can't judge a book by its197301:56:57,150 --> 01:57:03,090cover or by his voice I'm sayingthis is a good thing as197401:57:03,960 --> 01:57:06,810interesting you'll love it.You'll is I was blown away by it197501:57:06,810 --> 01:57:08,850and you know Kyron car noisesresearch.197601:57:09,089 --> 01:57:12,179Dave Jones: God he's a good me.He is a deep interviewer. He197701:57:12,179 --> 01:57:17,909goes all the way to the bottom.Yeah. 6969 from a citizen. He197801:57:17,909 --> 01:57:20,609says warriors armed withscissors and gaffer tape.197901:57:20,759 --> 01:57:22,079Adam Curry: That's us. That'sright man.198001:57:22,110 --> 01:57:25,140Dave Jones: Thank you. Josh pro1000 says he says Pocket Casts198101:57:25,140 --> 01:57:29,040beats fountain like a $2 mulewhoo Goodness gracious198201:57:29,520 --> 01:57:30,450Adam Curry: talk right there.198301:57:30,719 --> 01:57:34,499Dave Jones: Josh would you drinkthis morning so I'm gonna198401:57:34,650 --> 01:57:36,420Adam Curry: secure going backhere Aveda.198501:57:39,240 --> 01:57:41,760Dave Jones: Figured my meagerearn set should go to the best198601:57:41,760 --> 01:57:45,180calls go podcasting. Yeah, man.Yes, fountain. Hey, gosh,198701:57:45,540 --> 01:57:48,750Borlaug. 50,000 SATs through podverse he says letting you know198801:57:48,750 --> 01:57:51,060this project means a lot to usand wanted to198901:57:51,060 --> 01:57:52,560Adam Curry: say thank you. Oh,you're welcome.199001:57:52,800 --> 01:57:56,970Dave Jones: Thank you from BorlaThank you, Lyceum 22 to 22199101:57:56,970 --> 01:58:00,660through fountain he says youhave the rabbits what you have199201:58:00,660 --> 01:58:04,410the rabbits hairs in the row.The podcasting 2.0 initiative is199301:58:04,410 --> 01:58:08,220the rebirth of the internetradio on demand. Leo Laporte199401:58:08,220 --> 01:58:10,980suggestion for a new word forpodcast is getting more and more199501:58:10,980 --> 01:58:15,450appropriate You are the lightwas lit live Adam tag cross apps199601:58:15,570 --> 01:58:19,140cross cross comments threadsvalue for value music etc. Go199701:58:19,140 --> 01:58:19,860podcasting199801:58:19,920 --> 01:58:25,740Adam Curry: shows Martin Linda'scode go yeah, he's up there in199901:58:25,740 --> 01:58:30,900Nigeria. Me in Sweden. Yeah,like in Spotify his backyard200001:58:31,050 --> 01:58:31,950light him up man.200101:58:33,030 --> 01:58:35,820Dave Jones: Who is 25,000 saysthrough fountain he says thank200201:58:35,820 --> 01:58:39,210you day for generating a podthink token. This will help RSS200301:58:39,210 --> 01:58:40,950blue reach its ESG commitment.200401:58:44,100 --> 01:58:46,170Adam Curry: That's right. Yeah,you should take you should get200501:58:46,170 --> 01:58:47,340carbon credits for that.200601:58:47,700 --> 01:58:50,820Dave Jones: Yes. Yeah, we shouldboth get he should and should.200701:58:50,820 --> 01:58:54,990Yeah, because Exactly. There wasthis was that type of week where200801:58:54,990 --> 01:58:58,830there's a whole lot of like,private people asking me for200901:58:58,830 --> 01:58:59,970things and doing stuff. So201001:59:00,090 --> 01:59:03,240Adam Curry: no one ever asked mefor anything. Let me know if you201101:59:03,240 --> 01:59:06,630want to. I can pass it along ifyou'd like no, I mean I'm the201201:59:06,690 --> 01:59:09,420I'm the frontline man. I'm thetriage. I'm up there with people201301:59:09,420 --> 01:59:15,750saying, hey, my episodes are outof order. Fiction like Jimmy201401:59:15,810 --> 01:59:17,700Kimmel with the name of the showis201501:59:18,420 --> 01:59:22,710Dave Jones: DM me on Mastodon isa way to loophole and get around201601:59:22,710 --> 01:59:23,820behind your firewall201701:59:23,820 --> 01:59:25,800Adam Curry: really well. Youshould block them for that.201801:59:25,830 --> 01:59:28,800That's not cool, though. You'vegot to go through info at201901:59:28,800 --> 01:59:32,550podcast index.org and I willsign my initials to your email202001:59:32,550 --> 01:59:33,630and I will help you.202101:59:33,990 --> 01:59:37,650Dave Jones: That's right. Okay,delimiter comes through blogger202201:59:37,650 --> 01:59:43,0203015 says, darling Dave andamigo Adam, did you know that202301:59:43,020 --> 01:59:47,220the word robot originates fromSlavic language? No did not.202401:59:47,700 --> 01:59:50,790Then you simply must brush up onvital knowledge pertinent to202501:59:50,790 --> 01:59:54,510preventing a pernicious futurefor us all. Subscribe to the AI202601:59:54,510 --> 01:59:58,590dog cooking podcast show. It isa superb resource to assist in202701:59:58,590 --> 02:00:01,560that endeavor. The singlegreatest feat of the human race202802:00:01,560 --> 02:00:05,430can look to achieve is to shakeloose the shackles of servitude.202902:00:05,520 --> 02:00:06,150Yo203002:00:06,780 --> 02:00:13,470Adam Curry: CSB and gruffGoethe. Wow we got some they're203102:00:13,470 --> 02:00:16,740very, very creative comics orBlogger very, very creative203202:00:16,740 --> 02:00:19,290every single day. I appreciatethat. Yes, thank you all for203302:00:19,290 --> 02:00:21,660your booster grams and for yourboost and for your streaming203402:00:21,660 --> 02:00:25,770saps and monthly these are Fiatfun coupons mainly.203502:00:26,400 --> 02:00:29,820Dave Jones: Yes. Congratulationsto go off on the new human203602:00:29,820 --> 02:00:33,870resource by the way. Oh, yes.Indeed. Monthly Scott Jalbert.203702:00:33,870 --> 02:00:41,310$12. Chad, Pharaoh $20.22. Thankyou, Chad. Mark, gram $1. Joseph203802:00:41,310 --> 02:00:46,530maraca $5, Jeremy new $5Cameron, Rose $25 and new media.203902:00:46,560 --> 02:00:48,210That's Martin Linda scope. $1.204002:00:48,420 --> 02:00:50,940Adam Curry: Thank you all verymuch. And just so you know. And204102:00:50,940 --> 02:00:53,820when you hear people throwingaround big numbers and stats and204202:00:53,820 --> 02:00:57,420everything, it doesn't matter tous, as long as you're sending204302:00:57,420 --> 02:01:00,900back value data for somethingthat you received and whatever204402:01:00,900 --> 02:01:04,140you find valuable, we can'tdetermine that. So for one, it's204502:01:04,170 --> 02:01:08,940it's $1. For one, it's $5. Forone, it's 1111 SATs for one.204602:01:08,940 --> 02:01:12,540It's 500 SATs for another it's50,000 SATs. We appreciate it204702:01:12,540 --> 02:01:14,790all it's how it's supposed towork. And you have been keeping204802:01:14,790 --> 02:01:17,850the lights on here for going onthree years. If you'd like to204902:01:17,850 --> 02:01:20,280support us go to podcastindex.org. At the bottom, you205002:01:20,280 --> 02:01:22,740see two Oh, I should probablycheck it right now always forget205102:01:22,740 --> 02:01:27,600to check the tally coin. We havea red button there a donate205202:01:27,600 --> 02:01:30,840button, which is for PayPal foryour Fiat fun coupons and we205302:01:30,840 --> 02:01:36,000have the tally coin. And let'ssee, nope, that's for the on205402:01:36,000 --> 02:01:38,700chain. People begged and beggedand begged that we do it and no205502:01:38,700 --> 02:01:42,570one ever showed up except DredScott. I guess Dred Scott is the205602:01:42,570 --> 02:01:45,600one who's always doing it, weappreciate it so much. And of205702:01:45,600 --> 02:01:50,130course, the preferred method isto get into the ecosystem and to205802:01:50,130 --> 02:01:54,060boost us booster grams with amodern podcast app at podcast205902:01:54,060 --> 02:01:54,930apps.com.206002:01:55,710 --> 02:02:00,870Dave Jones: To underscore whatyou said, I've spun up a new206102:02:00,870 --> 02:02:06,840server today, a $5 server onLinode to host the index for the206202:02:06,840 --> 02:02:12,570reverse lookup from enclosuresto feed IDs. And it was $5206302:02:12,570 --> 02:02:13,500server. So what206402:02:13,500 --> 02:02:17,070Adam Curry: will that do thereverse lookup to whatever you206502:02:17,070 --> 02:02:17,610just said.206602:02:20,790 --> 02:02:25,200Dave Jones: You, it will allowpeople to put in to the API a206702:02:25,230 --> 02:02:29,520enclosure URL, and it will spitout what feed it belongs to.206802:02:30,180 --> 02:02:34,080Cool. Cool. Yeah, becauseevidently, it's a bigger thing206902:02:34,080 --> 02:02:37,770than I realized that peoplesometimes know the enclosure207002:02:37,770 --> 02:02:42,300URL, like Spurlock and op three.They know the enclosure URL, but207102:02:42,300 --> 02:02:44,880they don't know where it'scoming on podcast it belongs to207202:02:45,930 --> 02:02:48,570Adam Curry: it's a Spurlockspecial, special request207302:02:48,570 --> 02:02:49,230basically.207402:02:49,470 --> 02:02:52,830Dave Jones: It actually wasn'thim. It was it was it was207502:02:52,830 --> 02:02:55,410prompted by Dan Benjamin, hebecause he was he's building207602:02:55,560 --> 02:02:58,980pieces over that needed the samething. So and then Spurlock's207702:02:58,980 --> 02:03:00,000like, hey, I need that too.207802:03:00,030 --> 02:03:03,300Adam Curry: I was wondering, youknow, because I put no agenda207902:03:03,330 --> 02:03:06,030into the Opie three system. Ihave to be honest, I never208002:03:06,030 --> 02:03:08,040looked at the stats, but I knowwhat kind of what they are.208102:03:08,310 --> 02:03:10,860Should I just as a as a lark?Should I put it into one of208202:03:10,860 --> 02:03:13,620those other leaderboard thingswith people? Because I hear208302:03:13,620 --> 02:03:17,400these numbers like, oh, this,this podcast had, you know, had208402:03:17,430 --> 02:03:21,78050 500,000 downloads and like,Dude, I do that in a week or208502:03:21,780 --> 02:03:25,020two, maybe I don't know. Maybewe should just go mess up all208602:03:25,020 --> 02:03:30,180those leaderboards. I pop up inthe I heart numbers and stuff. I208702:03:30,180 --> 02:03:33,690mean, I keep hearing James Yeah,he does. He always does all208802:03:33,690 --> 02:03:36,330these, all these differentthings. And but this person208902:03:36,330 --> 02:03:38,250doesn't measure that. And theythey don't measure that. I'd209002:03:38,250 --> 02:03:41,220like to put mine in everywhere.Just see what happens if we show209102:03:41,220 --> 02:03:43,830up late rancor. Yeah. Why therancor? Yeah, I want to be in a209202:03:43,830 --> 02:03:45,540rancor. Yeah, that'll be fun.209302:03:46,230 --> 02:03:48,330Dave Jones: Hey, I like it.That's good. Do209402:03:48,480 --> 02:03:51,900Adam Curry: you want to still dotexts were to inform but if you209502:03:51,900 --> 02:03:56,280want to dive in, I'm cool withit. Limited it, Dave.209602:03:57,060 --> 02:03:59,190Dave Jones: Okay, I was going toask you this first one that was209702:03:59,190 --> 02:04:02,280first question on the list washave you implemented it yet? Is209802:04:02,280 --> 02:04:04,740it right? I mean, it's out thedoor is baked? Oh, yeah.209902:04:04,920 --> 02:04:08,280Unknown: Yeah. Okay. So the waythat we're doing it is we're210002:04:08,280 --> 02:04:11,850using it to verify ownership.But I think that's just one use210102:04:11,850 --> 02:04:15,450case for Right. Like there canbe more, if there's ever a need210202:04:15,450 --> 02:04:19,080to put something in your RSSfeed, like the DNS, I mean, what210302:04:19,080 --> 02:04:21,150it's inspired by DNS txt,210402:04:21,510 --> 02:04:26,280Adam Curry: when. So being onthe front lines of info dot210502:04:26,280 --> 02:04:31,140podcast index.org when someoneshows up and says, I want I want210602:04:31,140 --> 02:04:38,280I want and they have aBuzzsprout feed. So now i What210702:04:38,280 --> 02:04:40,980do I tell them to verify?Because not not that I don't210802:04:40,980 --> 02:04:44,010trust them, but now I just wantto mess with them. So what do I210902:04:44,010 --> 02:04:46,680tell them? What do they have todo when I say well, you got to211002:04:46,680 --> 02:04:48,990verify your feed. How do I dothat?211102:04:49,260 --> 02:04:51,510Unknown: You can give them acode word or a number I211202:04:51,510 --> 02:04:53,250Adam Curry: can just I can justgive them anytime I say put this211302:04:53,250 --> 02:04:56,370in here. And what is it called?You don't call it a TX t do you?211402:04:56,370 --> 02:04:58,140What do you call it on theverification? What do you call211502:04:58,140 --> 02:04:59,070it in your UI?211602:04:59,430 --> 02:05:03,030Unknown: It says email addressor token, Ah, okay. It would211702:05:03,030 --> 02:05:04,410take anything. So you cannot211802:05:04,410 --> 02:05:08,160Dave Jones: address or Okay, soyou can when you so in211902:05:08,160 --> 02:05:12,750Buzzsprout UI, if you go in thein the email address or token212002:05:12,750 --> 02:05:17,370field, if I plug in the emailaddress, it goes into the TXT212102:05:17,370 --> 02:05:17,820record.212202:05:19,050 --> 02:05:22,650Unknown: Yeah, it's in the,under the RSS feel like in the,212302:05:22,830 --> 02:05:27,030when you go to look at your,your RSS feed, there's a thing212402:05:27,030 --> 02:05:30,480down at the bottom that allowsyou to verify ownership. And it212502:05:30,480 --> 02:05:32,820says put in an email address ora token.212602:05:33,600 --> 02:05:36,300If you put an email address it,I don't know if we put it212702:05:36,330 --> 02:05:39,960actually in the textfield. Soyeah, we're just trying to be a212802:05:39,960 --> 02:05:41,820little clever. So if werecognize an email address,212902:05:41,820 --> 02:05:45,720we'll actually add it as aiTunes owner. Drop it in there,213002:05:45,720 --> 02:05:46,440because that's what213102:05:48,180 --> 02:05:50,370Dave Jones: are you gonna keepdoing that even after Apple213202:05:50,370 --> 02:05:51,420deprecates that tag?213302:05:53,070 --> 02:05:55,320Unknown: Well as Google, here'sthe here's the weird thing.213402:05:55,350 --> 02:05:57,990Yeah, it's Apple's tag that theydeprecated but people still use213502:05:57,990 --> 02:05:58,170it.213602:05:58,200 --> 02:06:00,660Adam Curry: So Okay. Um, yeah,I'm a little confused. So if I213702:06:00,660 --> 02:06:02,760give someone cuz of course, Iwant to give someone a token,213802:06:02,760 --> 02:06:09,360like a really weird number. 808You have put that in? Five.213902:06:09,960 --> 02:06:13,530that'll, that'll show up where?In their feed?214002:06:14,940 --> 02:06:17,220Unknown: In the podcast, texttag. Okay, so we'll show up214102:06:17,220 --> 02:06:17,940there. Oh, perfect.214202:06:17,970 --> 02:06:20,340Adam Curry: Okay, I can't waitto do that. I'm excited. I'm214302:06:20,340 --> 02:06:21,630excited to send people back.214402:06:21,660 --> 02:06:23,730Unknown: Everyone has the sameverification token when you go214502:06:23,730 --> 02:06:24,150through them.214602:06:29,100 --> 02:06:31,740Adam Curry: No, I'm gonna giveyou a nostril. I'm gonna give214702:06:31,740 --> 02:06:34,290you a nostril public key. I copythis.214802:06:35,130 --> 02:06:35,880Dave Jones: Oh, no.214902:06:37,860 --> 02:06:39,150Unknown: That sounds like theethos.215002:06:42,330 --> 02:06:45,630Dave Jones: Because ever,because Sam was just, Sam was215102:06:45,630 --> 02:06:49,500just I read about the TX T tagin the deprecation of email. So215202:06:49,500 --> 02:06:52,380just I just wanted to run overreal quick, since we're doing215302:06:52,380 --> 02:06:59,070this. The thing is Apple isApple is deprecating that, and215402:06:59,100 --> 02:07:04,200they are still, when theydeprecate something. It's, it's215502:07:04,200 --> 02:07:07,500a big deal. I mean, as much aswe as much as none of us like215602:07:07,500 --> 02:07:11,070it, it is a big deal. And it'sgonna have wide ranging effects.215702:07:11,070 --> 02:07:15,750So we had to do something, itwasn't a choice. And so when we215802:07:15,750 --> 02:07:21,180talked to Ted, at PodcastMovement, he was like, Look,215902:07:21,180 --> 02:07:24,600this is what we're, this is whatwe do internally, we give when216002:07:24,600 --> 02:07:27,450people want to claim their showon Apple podcasts, we give them216102:07:27,450 --> 02:07:31,200a code, a random string ofcharacters, and we tell them to216202:07:31,200 --> 02:07:34,230stick it in their show notes, wewould like and we're not going216302:07:34,230 --> 02:07:36,960to stop. That's the way we'regoing to do this. This is not216402:07:36,960 --> 02:07:40,770negotiable. Because that's theway that our support team needs216502:07:40,770 --> 02:07:45,540it to function. So we wouldreally like it to be inserted to216602:07:45,540 --> 02:07:48,600be a special tag to house thisvalue. So that doesn't have to216702:07:48,600 --> 02:07:51,810ugly up there. Show Notes.Basically, that's what we were216802:07:51,810 --> 02:07:55,140told. And it was like, Okay,well, this is that's fine. I216902:07:55,140 --> 02:07:59,550mean, y'all are sort of drivingthis whole ship. So217002:07:59,700 --> 02:08:02,880Adam Curry: So now, but it's notactually in the show notes in a217102:08:02,880 --> 02:08:04,200separate field.217202:08:05,070 --> 02:08:06,780Dave Jones: Yes, that's right.That's right. So now it's217302:08:06,780 --> 02:08:09,360hidden. It doesn't ugly up yourshow notes was just some random217402:08:09,360 --> 02:08:09,750string of217502:08:09,810 --> 02:08:12,270Adam Curry: all right. But But Ijust heard you say is, here's217602:08:12,300 --> 02:08:15,180it's non negotiable, you put itin your show notes. But we'd217702:08:15,180 --> 02:08:16,890like it to be in a TXT field.217802:08:16,920 --> 02:08:19,770Unknown: Well, no, it's nonnegotiable. I think that they217902:08:19,770 --> 02:08:23,640want to put that token into theRSS feed, where it goes is218002:08:23,640 --> 02:08:26,370negotiable. Even in theirinstructions, when they tell a218102:08:26,370 --> 02:08:29,520podcaster to put it in there.They tell him like multiple218202:08:29,520 --> 02:08:32,370places they can put it, I reallythink they just look anywhere in218302:08:32,370 --> 02:08:34,140the RSS feed to see if that218402:08:34,140 --> 02:08:35,580Adam Curry: token exists, weshould probably get a218502:08:35,580 --> 02:08:36,780confirmation on that.218602:08:37,320 --> 02:08:40,050Dave Jones: Well, what I meantby none, the part that I meant218702:08:40,050 --> 02:08:45,030that was non negotiable. Is isthat they were not open to doing218802:08:45,030 --> 02:08:47,970this any other way. And theyweren't going to say oh, we'll218902:08:47,970 --> 02:08:50,670do Oh off or we'll do somethingthat they're like, no. Okay,219002:08:50,700 --> 02:08:50,940well, I'm219102:08:50,940 --> 02:08:53,370Adam Curry: just saying because,you know, we know Apple and then219202:08:53,370 --> 02:08:55,530but no, no, we're looking in theshownotes. Now, we're not gonna219302:08:55,530 --> 02:08:58,950look at the gxg field. I'm just,you know, I would hate I would219402:08:58,950 --> 02:08:59,130hate219502:08:59,640 --> 02:09:01,410Dave Jones: it. I think that'sfine. I think they just do it.219602:09:01,890 --> 02:09:05,250Honestly, I think they just doit string search in the whole219702:09:05,280 --> 02:09:05,820entire I219802:09:05,820 --> 02:09:06,960Unknown: think yeah, I thinkthat's219902:09:07,530 --> 02:09:09,570sounds right. But I mean,220002:09:09,600 --> 02:09:13,410Dave Jones: but but to to easeSam and everybody else, I mean,220102:09:13,950 --> 02:09:18,120this can be a very simpleprocess. And like it doesn't for220202:09:18,120 --> 02:09:23,850this doesn't for preclude otherways of doing it. Like we just220302:09:23,850 --> 02:09:26,910talked about oak inscriptions.And that can be other other ways220402:09:26,910 --> 02:09:29,340can arise for doing feedverification, that's fine. And220502:09:29,340 --> 02:09:31,680I've got it, I've got an idea aswell that I'm going to implement220602:09:31,680 --> 02:09:35,610after the good resolver thing isdone. But the for us web hooks,220702:09:35,760 --> 02:09:36,270web hooks.220802:09:39,330 --> 02:09:41,640Adam Curry: web hooks, I'mgiving you the web hook here.220902:09:41,730 --> 02:09:42,420All right.221002:09:43,740 --> 02:09:46,800Dave Jones: But you know it,other things can arise but I221102:09:46,800 --> 02:09:50,130mean, this, this really wasalmost like a, I don't know,221202:09:50,130 --> 02:09:54,270like a self defense move. Tohave something ready for that221302:09:54,270 --> 02:09:58,020would actually would encompasswhat Apple said that's what221402:09:58,020 --> 02:09:58,110they're221502:09:58,110 --> 02:10:01,680Adam Curry: doing. So I wouldsay if I feel Sam's pain because221602:10:01,680 --> 02:10:06,030you know, he's trying to onboardpeople into into his into pod221702:10:06,060 --> 02:10:11,160pod fans. And, and yeah, I feelhis pain so I would say that you221802:10:11,160 --> 02:10:16,080know, top of those even aboveanything else for the podcast221902:10:16,080 --> 02:10:20,670Standards Project, I would saythe adherence to that to having222002:10:20,700 --> 02:10:25,890a version of the TX Tauthentication is the most kind,222102:10:25,920 --> 02:10:29,640brotherly sisterly thing we cando for each other because it's222202:10:29,640 --> 02:10:34,740really the having those emailaddresses gone and I guess Apple222302:10:34,740 --> 02:10:40,530is pretty much also you know, atplay here, it really complicates222402:10:40,530 --> 02:10:45,990your life yeah, without withouthaving that that Verification222502:10:45,990 --> 02:10:47,820Mechanism. I think in222602:10:47,820 --> 02:10:49,950Dave Jones: the future I thinkthere's a pain we're going222702:10:49,950 --> 02:10:54,420through a pain process right nowbut I foresee a future after222802:10:54,450 --> 02:10:58,050this transition is finished towhere it will actually be much222902:10:58,080 --> 02:11:02,760easier than email is now thatthe future is a bit223002:11:02,790 --> 02:11:06,150Adam Curry: of course emailsucks so bad with with with with223102:11:06,690 --> 02:11:11,190spam, etc. I'm completely withyou. I'm just saying, saying to223202:11:11,190 --> 02:11:15,030our our ambassadors here that Iwould say Man, if you can drive223302:11:15,030 --> 02:11:17,400that that's going to help a lotof it helped here forward223402:11:17,400 --> 02:11:20,640moving, you know, new new stuffcome online where people have to223502:11:20,640 --> 02:11:23,670verify that way. Or, you know,they could just verify with the223602:11:23,670 --> 02:11:25,080noster ID I would just say,223702:11:26,010 --> 02:11:29,190Dave Jones: well, the chat isjust boosted 808. Sasson said he223802:11:29,190 --> 02:11:30,690just he said I verified my feed223902:11:30,750 --> 02:11:34,200Adam Curry: your verified,verified. Kevin and Tom, thank224002:11:34,200 --> 02:11:36,600you so much for coming on. Thankyou for all that you do. As224102:11:36,600 --> 02:11:39,900always, thank you for supportingus specifically podcasting 2.0224202:11:39,900 --> 02:11:43,920so graciously as you always dowith your monthlies, but also224302:11:43,920 --> 02:11:50,010with with your with your people,your team working on stuff, even224402:11:50,040 --> 02:11:52,770especially the support team whohave to deal with all the crazy224502:11:52,770 --> 02:11:56,340crap we come up with and thenyou guys have to train your your224602:11:56,340 --> 02:11:59,640users we really appreciate it.You guys are true brothers in224702:11:59,640 --> 02:12:02,640the in the fight and thank youso much. Thank you so much,224802:12:02,640 --> 02:12:07,350guys. Thanks. Hey, Dave. Yep, Ilove you brother. I love you224902:12:07,350 --> 02:12:12,390too. Brent drink some beefmilkshake. Hi everybody. We'll225002:12:12,390 --> 02:12:15,810be back next week another boardmeeting of podcasting 2.0 Thanks225102:12:15,810 --> 02:12:18,270for joining bike chat room, seeeverybody.225202:12:33,750 --> 02:12:38,310Unknown: You have been listeningto podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast225302:12:38,310 --> 02:12:46,290index.org for more information.bombshell