Episode 122: We're Trending!

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:06,600Oh, podcasting 2.0 for February17 2023, episode 122 we're200:00:06,600 --> 00:00:11,280trending. Hello, everybodyFriday once again time for the300:00:11,280 --> 00:00:16,500board meeting. That's not yourend, no no. ARD meeting of400:00:16,500 --> 00:00:21,870podcasting. 2.0 everythinghappening with the future of500:00:21,870 --> 00:00:25,530podcasting, which of course isnow podcasts index.org the600:00:25,530 --> 00:00:28,980podcast namespace everythinghappening at podcast index dot700:00:28,980 --> 00:00:32,460social. Yes, we are your raft ofrefuge in a sea of big tech800:00:32,460 --> 00:00:35,280sludge. I'm Adam curry here inthe heart of the Texas Hill900:00:35,280 --> 00:00:39,420Country on Alabama fresh fromthe API. Battlefield say hello1000:00:39,420 --> 00:00:41,670to my friend on the other end,ladies and gentlemen, the one1100:00:41,670 --> 00:00:45,270and only podsafe Mr. Game Jones1200:00:47,850 --> 00:00:52,950may have been a little too Whatwould you call it? Like1300:00:53,010 --> 00:00:59,550aggressive? No, no. vulnerable,too much bravado in what I could1400:00:59,550 --> 00:01:01,740accomplish while you were doingthe intro? Oh, you were1500:01:01,980 --> 00:01:05,880trying to announce our ourliveliness our lateness are1600:01:06,450 --> 00:01:09,840put into posted on podcast indexdot social. Yeah, it was great.1700:01:09,840 --> 00:01:13,980And it was like 401401 You'renot authorized to log in. Oh,1800:01:14,040 --> 00:01:17,760and then LastPass wants my wantsmy 27 character master password.1900:01:17,760 --> 00:01:18,660I'm gonna type it in and2000:01:19,170 --> 00:01:22,860wait a minute. You're still onLastPass Yeah, but that thing's2100:01:22,860 --> 00:01:23,820compromised. Brah2200:01:24,870 --> 00:01:27,690notice, but I've got a fantasticpassword.2300:01:29,850 --> 00:01:31,950It's still raising income. Ithought it was I thought you're2400:01:31,950 --> 00:01:34,080getting off that moving away. Ithought you were discouraged.2500:01:34,080 --> 00:01:34,710Sad.2600:01:35,220 --> 00:01:40,380I am. But I'm not in a hurry.I'm good. Yeah, no, no, I don't2700:01:40,380 --> 00:01:43,350feel at risk. But I'm still I'mactually literally still trying2800:01:43,350 --> 00:01:44,550to log in as we're talking.2900:01:45,720 --> 00:01:53,910I finally set up. What is that?Vault ward? No. No, not bid3000:01:53,910 --> 00:01:57,210warden. It's the open safes onUmbro. It's an open source3100:01:57,210 --> 00:01:59,130version. Hold on now. I gottacheck it.3200:01:59,550 --> 00:01:59,820Keep3300:02:01,020 --> 00:02:05,250KeePass Yes, thank you. Okay.KeePass. So and So KeePass. I3400:02:05,250 --> 00:02:10,770have an app, which is comes fromthe ever so trusted F droid.3500:02:11,280 --> 00:02:14,400Trust more than anything else,of course, and then I have the3600:02:14,490 --> 00:02:19,110server side on my Umbral that Ithink is okay.3700:02:20,130 --> 00:02:25,560I'm going to be a huge hypocriteon this. Because it has like3800:02:25,710 --> 00:02:29,250something about the open sourceaspect of KeePass makes me3900:02:29,250 --> 00:02:32,850uncomfortable. And it's not thecode itself. It's not. It's not4000:02:32,850 --> 00:02:36,570the core key pass code thatbothers me because I feel I felt4100:02:36,570 --> 00:02:39,180like that's great. I feel reallygood with an open source,4200:02:39,660 --> 00:02:43,950Password Manager, like the codeitself. It's when I go to4300:02:44,310 --> 00:02:48,930install it on my phone from theApp Store. And it's like,4400:02:48,930 --> 00:02:51,390there's all these ones that arethere, like KeePass apps, I'm4500:02:51,390 --> 00:02:53,370like, oh, no, there's all ofthese people. Yes.4600:02:53,730 --> 00:02:58,230Remember, I'm running graph, youknow, as I use F droid. So4700:02:58,260 --> 00:03:00,540there's a lot you know, there'sa lot of checks and balances4800:03:00,540 --> 00:03:03,270going on. i But you'reabsolutely right. There's other4900:03:03,270 --> 00:03:07,050key pass apps which look exactlythe same. And it's that to me,5000:03:07,050 --> 00:03:08,340is the honeypot right there?5100:03:08,970 --> 00:03:13,680Yeah, I'm like, I'm like, Whoare you? Where's my sir? Where's5200:03:13,680 --> 00:03:16,350my passwords? Which server theygo into? In what country?5300:03:16,410 --> 00:03:18,930Well, I gotta wonder. I mean,for the longest time was just5400:03:18,930 --> 00:03:21,540kind of keeping everything inthe brave Password Manager. Is5500:03:21,540 --> 00:03:22,860that a very bad idea?5600:03:23,970 --> 00:03:26,550The brave Password Manager.Seems5700:03:27,060 --> 00:03:30,780it seems to be pretty, pretty. Idon't hear I never hear oh, my5800:03:30,780 --> 00:03:33,630stuff got stolen. Althoughautofill can be a problem,5900:03:33,660 --> 00:03:37,080right? You can have audit, likesome JavaScript or something can6000:03:37,080 --> 00:03:39,300call for an autofill and youdon't even know it and it's6100:03:39,300 --> 00:03:42,210hidden under something and thenbefore you know it, you know6200:03:42,210 --> 00:03:46,140you've you bought yourself atrip to Kuala Lumpur on your6300:03:46,440 --> 00:03:47,160credit card.6400:03:49,020 --> 00:03:53,190Congratulations on your travelmiles. Yes, yeah, no, I think6500:03:53,190 --> 00:03:55,530it's fine. It's just like itstores it locally. The only6600:03:55,530 --> 00:03:58,020attack vector there is ifsomething gets in your machine6700:03:58,020 --> 00:04:01,860or if there's a zero day in, inthe Chrome chromium core but I6800:04:01,860 --> 00:04:05,250mean, like that's see that's thewhole thing of like once6900:04:05,250 --> 00:04:08,610somebody gets in your machine Imean, all bets are off already.7000:04:09,780 --> 00:04:15,690Yeah, but anyway, we are litwe're living live that means the7100:04:15,690 --> 00:04:19,020show is recorded live to tapeand before his live studio7200:04:19,020 --> 00:04:23,760audience there at our in ourchat room. If you're using pod7300:04:23,760 --> 00:04:27,450verse, if you're using podcastaddicts, you probably got an7400:04:27,450 --> 00:04:31,680alert if you're subscribed, andyou ask for alerts and you open7500:04:31,680 --> 00:04:34,230it up you got where you get allyour podcasts What do you get7600:04:34,230 --> 00:04:36,990immediately you you got the chatroom you got the the live7700:04:36,990 --> 00:04:41,100stream, curio caster could bestreaming it live with many more7800:04:41,100 --> 00:04:44,850to come soon. And you can nowsee all of the new apps at our7900:04:44,850 --> 00:04:52,440handy new URL, podcast apps.comNow, yes, podcast app. So guess8000:04:52,440 --> 00:04:58,110what's not on there. Oh, Apple'snot on there. is Amazon's not on8100:04:58,110 --> 00:05:02,280that Google's Spotify. NoPodcast apps.com This is where8200:05:02,280 --> 00:05:03,870you go to get your podcast apps.8300:05:05,940 --> 00:05:08,580This is sang to you Marcuscouch. Thank8400:05:08,580 --> 00:05:09,870you Marcus couch.8500:05:10,260 --> 00:05:11,940That had to be expensive.8600:05:12,030 --> 00:05:15,090That's why I said don't give itto us, man. Just you keep it.8700:05:15,690 --> 00:05:18,510Yeah, you just forward it. Yeah,I don't know. What do you paid8800:05:18,510 --> 00:05:19,920for it? You won't they'll nevertell me.8900:05:22,140 --> 00:05:24,840They didn't give them glad.Because then you can sell it9000:05:24,840 --> 00:05:28,800later. Yeah. And all of a suddenit'll become become a Kuala9100:05:28,800 --> 00:05:29,910Lumpur travel site.9200:05:32,370 --> 00:05:39,030Podcast apps No, not podcast.comNo, I know. No, no. podcast9300:05:39,030 --> 00:05:41,550apps.com podcast.com That neverturned into any good business as9400:05:41,550 --> 00:05:46,170far as I know who is podcast.comI remember that was like, at9500:05:46,170 --> 00:05:52,260once. Mark. Once Mark Cuban hadbroadcast.com and got $2 billion9600:05:52,650 --> 00:05:56,820for it. Oh, is the podcast justaudible? What is this9700:05:58,200 --> 00:05:59,970podcast? podcast.com goes toAudible9800:06:00,030 --> 00:06:06,180is that audible? I podcast.com Ihave a simple and affordable all9900:06:06,180 --> 00:06:08,520on one podcast hosting andmanagement platform.10000:06:09,120 --> 00:06:12,060Now when I type in podcast.comHe goes straight as a redirect.10100:06:12,060 --> 00:06:12,210What10200:06:12,210 --> 00:06:16,740do you have? podcasts orpodcasts? No, just with a T. Oh,10300:06:17,460 --> 00:06:22,200okay. Yeah. podcast.com goes toYes, of course. Audible. Yes.10400:06:22,200 --> 00:06:22,800There you go.10500:06:23,669 --> 00:06:25,109They should donate it to us too.10600:06:25,169 --> 00:06:29,459Yeah, douche bags. I mean, juicesacks. Juice punctures.10700:06:31,230 --> 00:06:33,030Audible what we're here. Yeah,we're10800:06:33,840 --> 00:06:37,380ready for it anytime. Yeah. Ah,well10900:06:38,520 --> 00:06:44,790well, this base milkshake is notright. I dumped this in in a11000:06:44,790 --> 00:06:49,170hurry. I barely made it here forthe show. And I like I did like11100:06:49,170 --> 00:06:51,24010 ounces of milk and I waslike, Oh, that's a lot of milk.11200:06:51,240 --> 00:06:52,080So I'm just gonna dump11300:06:52,470 --> 00:06:56,340Oh, you just you just oh no, no,no, no, now it's like a digital.11400:06:56,370 --> 00:06:59,730It's just a big Gillette like Ican't this isn't drinking11500:07:00,270 --> 00:07:07,770this is not again there we go upto Dred Scott right away 333,33311600:07:07,770 --> 00:07:11,100SATs it's been so long waitingfor a podcast like this Don't be11700:07:11,100 --> 00:07:17,490a juice pouch donate support theindex go podcast. Yeah, baby.11800:07:17,490 --> 00:07:19,830Oh, you're in Yeah.11900:07:19,890 --> 00:07:21,840333 threes. Whoa,12000:07:21,870 --> 00:07:23,790it's a super magic number boost.12100:07:24,539 --> 00:07:25,649God thank you Jared.12200:07:25,680 --> 00:07:28,590Yeah, just fantastic. And wehave a jingle for that12300:07:28,590 --> 00:07:29,820somewhere. We have.12400:07:31,770 --> 00:07:33,180We have a we have a drip.12500:07:33,599 --> 00:07:36,899No, we should have a drip jinglenow we have a magic number12600:07:36,899 --> 00:07:37,349jingle12700:07:43,320 --> 00:07:48,810magic number there you go. Bythe way, I've only got only12800:07:48,810 --> 00:07:52,440brought one clip boardroom todayand I mean it's you can just12900:07:52,440 --> 00:07:54,960fire it will on that. Anytimeyou feel Froggy.13000:07:55,590 --> 00:07:58,140Oh, well, I'll hold on for asecond. Okay, I won't do13100:07:58,140 --> 00:08:01,680anything. Thank you Dr. This isof course the instant feedback13200:08:01,680 --> 00:08:06,330mechanism that is being lit withour booster grams. Mad before we13300:08:06,330 --> 00:08:08,460get started, I want to I want toget a little update from the13400:08:08,460 --> 00:08:11,460battlefields last night all of asudden you're posting about13500:08:11,550 --> 00:08:15,420you're fighting with with somescraper or some someone hitting13600:08:15,420 --> 00:08:19,230the API over a million times.And I have a question but first13700:08:19,230 --> 00:08:21,600I just like to get the updatedfor Are you okay? Are you13800:08:21,600 --> 00:08:24,720wounded? Everything? Everything?Functioning? You have all your13900:08:24,720 --> 00:08:25,530limbs still?14000:08:26,130 --> 00:08:29,460Like a little bit shrapnel inthe knee than than MRI? Yeah,14100:08:29,460 --> 00:08:33,870I've made it through smell likesmoke, but I'm alright. The No14200:08:33,870 --> 00:08:37,980it was this. Somebody. Let me goback. Let's see the origin14300:08:37,980 --> 00:08:42,300story. Oh, John Spurlock saidthe other day, maybe three days14400:08:42,300 --> 00:08:45,540ago. He's like, hey, something'sgoing on around four o'clock in14500:08:45,540 --> 00:08:48,330the morning every night for likethe last couple. Three.14600:08:48,930 --> 00:08:52,020First question. What's he doingat four o'clock in the morning?14700:08:53,010 --> 00:08:54,060That's my question.14800:08:55,350 --> 00:08:57,330I didn't ask him worlddomination.14900:08:57,360 --> 00:09:03,360No doubt world domination.That's what he's doing. Alright,15000:09:03,360 --> 00:09:06,420so what was going on? And it'snot just last night, it's every15100:09:06,420 --> 00:09:08,550night now, I guess or happenedbefore?15200:09:09,240 --> 00:09:12,780Well, I'm like, Well, I don'tknow. I mean, you know, our15300:09:12,780 --> 00:09:17,700crack system monitoringtechnology that you know, tells15400:09:17,700 --> 00:09:20,790me anytime there's a hiccup Goddidn't get an alert and alert.15500:09:21,180 --> 00:09:23,820Me. So this was a sophisticatedyou know why? Because there's15600:09:23,820 --> 00:09:26,070not one. Oh, okay. Yeah,15700:09:26,160 --> 00:09:29,160that would explain that. So whenthis happens is this does this15800:09:29,190 --> 00:09:34,170suck up resources that a Geminithing? Or what is the result to15900:09:34,170 --> 00:09:36,210us? Performance wise?16000:09:36,660 --> 00:09:39,480Well, look, I looked back and Iwas like, I don't know that16100:09:39,480 --> 00:09:42,930there's something going on. Andthen I did with no with no16200:09:42,930 --> 00:09:46,740information at all. I did whatevery good SIS admin does. I16300:09:46,740 --> 00:09:52,260blamed Cloudflare. I said it'sprobably cloud flares now. And16400:09:52,260 --> 00:09:54,450that was just a buy me time so Icould actually go and look and16500:09:54,450 --> 00:09:58,260see what really happened. Sothen, I went and looked and it16600:09:58,260 --> 00:10:01,830was like, around At times, somestarted like three o'clock in16700:10:01,830 --> 00:10:04,830the morning went to about five.For the last like two or three16800:10:04,830 --> 00:10:08,700nights and rows, it was justhammer time on the on the API.16900:10:09,480 --> 00:10:12,960And I thought, okay, that'sweird. So I look back. And I17000:10:12,960 --> 00:10:16,770have a couple of scripts that Ican run that looks at the logs17100:10:17,040 --> 00:10:21,450from the previous, like, 24hours or so. It'll tell me,17200:10:21,750 --> 00:10:25,770which developer account has hitthe most, and how many hits they17300:10:25,770 --> 00:10:29,220had over a certain timeframe. SoI just ran that. And it was like17400:10:29,220 --> 00:10:32,520some, you know, it's always thesame, you know, people that it's17500:10:32,520 --> 00:10:38,010very, it's a very, you know, avery common pattern. I mean,17600:10:38,010 --> 00:10:40,680it's like always, you know,fountain pod first, you know,17700:10:40,680 --> 00:10:43,590all these kinds of things. So,and then it was just some, you17800:10:43,590 --> 00:10:47,220know, Rando out of nowhere, itwas like, 10 times as much17900:10:47,220 --> 00:10:50,520traffic as anybody even close. Iwas like, Okay, this is this is18000:10:50,520 --> 00:10:55,140out of control. So it was somerando Gmail address with a bunch18100:10:55,140 --> 00:10:58,440of numbers, and no, you know, noconstant, you know, no vowels in18200:10:58,440 --> 00:11:01,770it. So I just deleted that guy.And then he comes back under a18300:11:01,770 --> 00:11:08,760different Gmail address. Likeyesterday, and same guy random.18400:11:08,970 --> 00:11:12,120Now you are assuming gender,which I think is very dangerous.18500:11:13,740 --> 00:11:17,700If this was a woman, I wouldactually love to know that18600:11:17,700 --> 00:11:25,350because that would be that wouldbe a first. I've never seen a18700:11:25,740 --> 00:11:29,670NFC I've never seen a hacker,like any of the mug shots or any18800:11:29,670 --> 00:11:32,340of these arrests that Europoldoes, where they do it and never18900:11:32,340 --> 00:11:34,260seen a woman in any of thesegroups.19000:11:34,560 --> 00:11:36,900That only happens in the movies.There wasn't literally in19100:11:36,900 --> 00:11:39,840hackers, the movie Hackers, itwas our matrix. Yeah, checks.19200:11:39,840 --> 00:11:42,900Yeah, we're in the matrix.Exactly. Yeah. How disingenuous19300:11:42,900 --> 00:11:43,410is that?19400:11:43,890 --> 00:11:46,380Can we get that to happen,please? Because really, that's19500:11:46,380 --> 00:11:50,850great. But it is whoever thiswoman was that intro started19600:11:50,880 --> 00:11:55,230hammering the API came back, nodifferent by hammering, sorry,19700:11:55,680 --> 00:11:59,370as in and just let us have itagain. This time, three and a19800:11:59,370 --> 00:12:02,730half million requests, oh, aboutan hour and a half.19900:12:02,760 --> 00:12:05,370But now this isn't I presumethis is not a denial of service20000:12:05,370 --> 00:12:07,320request. This is just someonewho doesn't know that you can20100:12:07,320 --> 00:12:09,690actually download a copy of thedatabase.20200:12:10,050 --> 00:12:14,400I believe that's always whatthese are. In woman though, even20300:12:14,400 --> 00:12:20,220though it says in, I put in theAPI response, the win rate,20400:12:20,220 --> 00:12:24,330limit them the response, you candownload everything, yes, with a20500:12:24,330 --> 00:12:29,640link to it. And they just keepgoing, just keep going.20600:12:29,699 --> 00:12:32,159Oh, man, that's now what do youthink that they're doing this20700:12:32,159 --> 00:12:34,919for? I mean, I would first ofall, if anyone's doing this, I20800:12:34,919 --> 00:12:37,979presume most of them are tryingto get email addresses. That20900:12:37,979 --> 00:12:42,899seems to be the the main I lovethe people who try to encode21000:12:42,899 --> 00:12:47,489podcasts. index.org Hey, hey,you know, I'm I'm experimenting21100:12:47,489 --> 00:12:53,459with something funny. I can'tget the email addresses. I'm21200:12:53,459 --> 00:12:55,739just just a little guy overhere. Just doing a little thing21300:12:55,739 --> 00:12:57,659on my Raspberry Pi. You know,21400:12:59,460 --> 00:13:02,310I noticed and I noticed theemail addresses are missing from21500:13:02,310 --> 00:13:07,050the responses. Am I doing itwrong? Email address is like Joe21600:13:07,080 --> 00:13:13,530Joe at podcast marketing.com orsomething? Yeah. I think we have21700:13:13,530 --> 00:13:16,740mitigations in place, which I donot want to speak of. I do not21800:13:16,740 --> 00:13:21,180want to give give ouradversaries. This top is21900:13:21,180 --> 00:13:26,160classified information. Yes.Highly, highly classified.22000:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,460Oh, man. That's too funny. Well,I'm sorry. You had to go through22100:13:29,460 --> 00:13:34,500that. But it is what it is. Butpeople please. The we should we22200:13:34,500 --> 00:13:39,540should put it somewhere on thewebsite. Hey, don't put her up.22300:13:39,540 --> 00:13:43,620Right. If you want to use ourAPI to scrape just download it.22400:13:44,250 --> 00:13:49,950Here you go. And by the way,send us a donation. Juice pouch.22500:13:51,300 --> 00:13:53,460I'm digging that that's dredScott's we're like I'm I'm22600:13:53,460 --> 00:13:55,890digging that his kids aren'tallowed to say douche bag at22700:13:55,890 --> 00:14:00,300home. So they use juice pouch,which I think is is a nice PG22800:14:00,300 --> 00:14:01,590version. Well,22900:14:01,620 --> 00:14:03,960when my when my son was littlehe was like, I don't know if23000:14:04,170 --> 00:14:08,310four five, something like that.He said something happened. He23100:14:08,310 --> 00:14:11,940said, Oh my God. And Melissa andMelissa was like, don't grant23200:14:11,940 --> 00:14:15,870don't take God's name in vain.Don't do that. He's like, can I23300:14:15,870 --> 00:14:22,680say oh my mouse? Yeah, sure.Sure. He's like, cool. Every23400:14:22,680 --> 00:14:26,010year. Yeah, we just looked ateach other like, weird.23500:14:27,630 --> 00:14:30,720Well, it was it was a rough,actually kind of a rough week23600:14:30,720 --> 00:14:36,360for for servers for us. Thepodcast index23700:14:36,390 --> 00:14:39,960node. Yeah, channel pocalypse iswhat this well yeah,23800:14:39,960 --> 00:14:44,130I'm gonna I calling it thenostrils. Zap zap crash. Okay.23900:14:44,880 --> 00:14:49,950So I noticed I'm not even sureexactly what I noticed. Now I24000:14:49,950 --> 00:14:53,940noticed channels went down whichis not a crazy thing because the24100:14:53,940 --> 00:14:57,930Lightning Network just seems todo this from time to time. And I24200:14:57,930 --> 00:15:01,530got I got a post or an emailHey, man, what did I do wrong?24300:15:01,530 --> 00:15:04,950Why did you close the channel onme? How can I improve my24400:15:04,950 --> 00:15:10,050behavior? My Why do you talk topeople in websites? What? Right?24500:15:10,230 --> 00:15:14,700When, when a when a lightningnode closes, and it has forced24600:15:14,700 --> 00:15:17,520closed, which I don't think I'veever forced close to channel24700:15:17,550 --> 00:15:21,720ever, ever. But you get themessage force close and I get24800:15:21,720 --> 00:15:25,770forced because we both get it oneach end. And then people take24900:15:25,770 --> 00:15:28,440offense to that, like, Hey, man,what do you do?25000:15:28,950 --> 00:15:31,440It's an aggressive name forforce close.25100:15:31,440 --> 00:15:35,280Yeah. Yeah, you're right, it iskind of aggressive. And when you25200:15:35,280 --> 00:15:43,830do a force close, then thepredetermined close amount comes25300:15:43,830 --> 00:15:47,640in action. So there's a timeout,which also can be, it can be a25400:15:47,640 --> 00:15:51,090week, in some cases, usually,it's a day or a couple of days,25500:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,960I tried to set it reasonablylow. But this was at the same25600:15:54,960 --> 00:16:00,840time that the Bitcointransaction fees were in the25700:16:00,870 --> 00:16:05,850high teens and low 20s. Becauseof this nominals with this25800:16:05,850 --> 00:16:12,030ordinals mining business. Now,people are like, Oh, I'm going25900:16:12,030 --> 00:16:16,920to encode something into theblockchain on this set. And so26000:16:16,950 --> 00:16:21,960the blocks are supposed to beone by one meg in size, and they26100:16:21,960 --> 00:16:26,070seem to be encroaching to quiteregularly. But the next block26200:16:26,070 --> 00:16:31,050over will be 300 500 megabytes.So So yeah, so the transaction26300:16:31,050 --> 00:16:34,020fees are just by the way, my twolittle miners here at home, I'm26400:16:34,020 --> 00:16:36,750doing two bucks a day. I'mrockin and rollin here, I'm26500:16:36,750 --> 00:16:38,100printing money. And26600:16:39,810 --> 00:16:42,870this is, I looked into this alittle bit, I'd love to hear26700:16:42,870 --> 00:16:44,130your thoughts on the ordinalsthing.26800:16:44,160 --> 00:16:48,480Well, let me get through the ZAPzap crash first. Alright, so um,26900:16:48,510 --> 00:16:53,070so Now luckily, we host thisnode at at voltage and I love27000:16:53,070 --> 00:16:56,550what and we've had it there fromday one. And Graham is the man27100:16:56,550 --> 00:16:59,790who does not sleep. It doesn'tmatter what time I ping him. It27200:16:59,790 --> 00:17:03,630could be you know, three in themorning 9am 11 At night, he's27300:17:03,630 --> 00:17:05,400always there always.27400:17:05,790 --> 00:17:08,820And I don't understand how hedoes mean either mean either.27500:17:09,960 --> 00:17:12,900And this I think this is in themorning and I see like this 4027600:17:12,900 --> 00:17:21,720channels close. I'm like, Oh,what is going on? So and in this27700:17:21,990 --> 00:17:25,140just in just to try and get intothe node was something like27800:17:25,140 --> 00:17:28,410thunder hub is a lot of joke atthis point. And the thunder hub27900:17:28,410 --> 00:17:32,160just crashes we it's we have somany transactions. It's so we28000:17:32,160 --> 00:17:36,750had a 16 gigabyte size database.So I say to Graham said, Hey,28100:17:36,750 --> 00:17:39,930Graham, man, I got a whole bunchof force closures. I didn't do28200:17:39,930 --> 00:17:45,360anything. And so we're lookingat it together. And he says,28300:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,390Huh, says well, why don't wejust restart it just for good28400:17:48,390 --> 00:17:51,960measure and see what see whatcomes back up this thing? After28500:17:51,960 --> 00:17:56,100an hour, it doesn't come backup. So now so now every every28600:17:56,100 --> 00:17:59,670sysadmin knows the trickle ofsweat down your butt crack at28700:17:59,670 --> 00:18:05,940this point. Oh man, and youknow, it was What day was it? It28800:18:05,940 --> 00:18:10,380was was it maybe a Monday? Itwas28900:18:12,030 --> 00:18:13,080Sunday? No,29000:18:13,080 --> 00:18:15,930I came on Sunday. Now it was aMonday because I knew and I29100:18:15,930 --> 00:18:19,710noticed that too. You know myone of my pod father unbel node29200:18:19,710 --> 00:18:24,450went down which is not irregularbut okay. But also my other node29300:18:24,450 --> 00:18:28,860which I usually use to securebackups everything transpires29400:18:28,920 --> 00:18:29,820the node my29500:18:29,820 --> 00:18:32,970own bro, mambo got stuck here athome too. And I had to I had to29600:18:33,000 --> 00:18:34,230reboot. Yeah,29700:18:34,410 --> 00:18:39,420exactly, exactly. So this was alittle uncommon behavior that29800:18:39,420 --> 00:18:46,290the nodes were literallytrashed. So, so now Graham's29900:18:46,290 --> 00:18:48,870like, alright, well hold on asecond. He's like, let me make a30000:18:48,870 --> 00:18:52,350backup on my end. Now I'm now mybrowsers is like wet.30100:18:54,150 --> 00:18:55,380Oh, it didn't say the B word.30200:18:56,010 --> 00:19:01,320Because we know we know, we knowhow fragile all this stuff30300:19:01,320 --> 00:19:04,650really can be. And ultimately, Ithink Graham has, he can do a30400:19:04,650 --> 00:19:07,950lot on his end. But like if weif we lose the password, we're30500:19:07,950 --> 00:19:10,770screwed. I mean, there's no wayyou're not bringing that thing30600:19:10,770 --> 00:19:15,360back up. He has no access tothat. So and then we go into30700:19:15,360 --> 00:19:20,310compact ng mode. And it's threenow but and that's midnight, and30800:19:20,310 --> 00:19:23,370I give up. And it's our it'sbeen going for three hours now.30900:19:23,370 --> 00:19:27,900And so this node has been downalmost all day. And I'm not I'm31000:19:27,900 --> 00:19:33,030not having a good time. And socomes back up in the middle of31100:19:33,030 --> 00:19:36,360the night, of course notfunctional because at 3am I had31200:19:36,360 --> 00:19:39,540to unlock the node which Icouldn't do because I was31300:19:39,540 --> 00:19:44,070asleep. I had to go to sleep.And then I just didn't hear that31400:19:44,070 --> 00:19:45,990I did have my phone on but Ididn't hear the ping from31500:19:45,990 --> 00:19:49,560Graham. So like 6am I unlockedthe node. It's coming back I31600:19:49,560 --> 00:19:52,800have great the database hasshrunk. We've compacted from 1631700:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,070gigabytes to eight. By the way.How sexy is this Tech Talk come31800:19:56,070 --> 00:20:00,630out of my mouth huh? EMR.31900:20:01,650 --> 00:20:03,000I'm gonna go back and listenlater.32000:20:03,090 --> 00:20:07,710So we're like, okay, trying tofigure out what's going on. And32100:20:07,950 --> 00:20:12,090Graham says, wow, there's like,over 150 channel closes last32200:20:12,090 --> 00:20:15,570night or yesterday across theLightning Network. And we start32300:20:15,570 --> 00:20:21,510investigating. So what's goingon? Well, turns out that damos,32400:20:21,510 --> 00:20:28,200the the Jack Dorsey endorsedJack and Dorsey noster app32500:20:28,590 --> 00:20:33,720released this zap functionality,which I'm a little confused if32600:20:33,720 --> 00:20:40,920it's ln pay ln URL paymentsystem, or if it's key send, I'm32700:20:40,920 --> 00:20:45,270not quite sure. But I know whathappened is we have so we we32800:20:45,270 --> 00:20:49,590have typically about 100 Pluschannels open to a lot of32900:20:49,590 --> 00:20:54,090smaller nodes, which were whichwe love doing, we love providing33000:20:54,360 --> 00:20:57,030the liquidity, which iseverything that comes into the33100:20:57,030 --> 00:21:00,630index node is turned around andis used for liquidity to anybody33200:21:00,630 --> 00:21:02,010who needs it. Basically,33300:21:02,040 --> 00:21:05,490we've had as many as like, 145channels open pretty big.33400:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,410Yeah, it's been very now thatwell, that definitely got33500:21:07,410 --> 00:21:13,650cleaned out. With that, sohere's what happened. Cuz Graham33600:21:13,680 --> 00:21:16,530would, you know, Jesus, I thinkthis is related. And then he33700:21:16,530 --> 00:21:20,340started digging in. So this wasa beta release from from damos.33800:21:21,000 --> 00:21:29,130The app and one bad HDLC canreally screw up the note. And as33900:21:29,130 --> 00:21:32,430it turns out, we got a lotthere's a high correlation34000:21:32,430 --> 00:21:36,810between people who are connectedto podcast index or their node34100:21:37,110 --> 00:21:42,210and who also use noster. Ofcourse there is and so so there34200:21:42,210 --> 00:21:46,980were tons of, of zaps as they'recalled flowing routing through34300:21:47,010 --> 00:21:52,260our node and at least one butprobably multiple HTL sees the34400:21:52,260 --> 00:21:56,670hash time lack of time lock.What is the contract contract?34500:21:57,060 --> 00:22:00,750That were either bogus orcorrupted somewhere? I mean,34600:22:00,930 --> 00:22:04,950something is something wentwrong. And that crashed our node34700:22:04,950 --> 00:22:12,960hard. And I think actually, Sir,sir, sir Pate, I think in in the34800:22:12,960 --> 00:22:17,910Netherlands. Let me see. Hesaid, Oh, yeah, I had my Nasr34900:22:17,910 --> 00:22:22,230stuff hooked up there was a lotof fun. Why did you Why Why? Why35000:22:22,230 --> 00:22:28,080did you close the my channel? Isit Why didn't close it? Cost35100:22:28,080 --> 00:22:32,970Palin. There we go cost Pinto?Yeah. So and he's like, oh,35200:22:33,000 --> 00:22:36,090yeah, he ran late. Yeah, he ranit last weekend, he had to35300:22:36,240 --> 00:22:40,560nostra relay, you know, just awhole bunch of a whole bunch of35400:22:40,560 --> 00:22:44,910stuff running on routing throughus. And I'm not saying was his35500:22:44,910 --> 00:22:48,660node specifically. I don't know.But but it clearly was a noster.35600:22:49,290 --> 00:22:54,000This zap thing that just thatjust totally, yeah, totally35700:22:54,420 --> 00:22:58,500screwed our node. So I've beenvery slow to reopen channels,35800:22:58,500 --> 00:23:00,450I'm waiting for people to comeon and say, Hey, you closed my35900:23:00,450 --> 00:23:04,890channels. And no, I didn't. Ithappy to open it up. But please36000:23:04,890 --> 00:23:07,620don't use it as your nostrilrecipient node, because it's36100:23:07,620 --> 00:23:10,170just crazy. And there arelimitations. You know, there's36200:23:10,170 --> 00:23:13,200limitations on stuff. And we hadanother. So one of the problems36300:23:13,200 --> 00:23:17,610we had, which I found out aspeople were trying to send36400:23:17,610 --> 00:23:20,820booster grams to carry in thekeeper, which, like comic strip36500:23:20,820 --> 00:23:25,110blogger is one of them. And heand he was getting errors on on36600:23:25,110 --> 00:23:29,970my note, which at this point wasreconnected to podcast index.36700:23:30,120 --> 00:23:32,310And he was doing it fromfountain and he was not getting36800:23:32,310 --> 00:23:36,600through to me. And so I do somemore digging turns out one of36900:23:36,600 --> 00:23:39,630the channels that closed whichdoesn't surprise me, I'm sure37000:23:39,630 --> 00:23:43,800lots of people were using theirfountain address as the place to37100:23:43,830 --> 00:23:46,500you know, to zap to I think,yeah, just think,37200:23:47,220 --> 00:23:49,200you know, they would I mean, Iwould think37300:23:49,200 --> 00:23:53,490so yeah, I would think so. Sothat channel got closed, and37400:23:53,490 --> 00:23:57,060then whatever routing there was,and they were so intermittent37500:23:57,060 --> 00:24:00,840that, you know, on the day thatwe do our show every 14 days, on37600:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,000the day that we do the show,people were trying to boost from37700:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,720fountain booster grams, and theywere failing. And those are just37800:24:06,720 --> 00:24:12,840the ones that who noticed it. Sohuge cacophony. And then we37900:24:12,840 --> 00:24:16,800started looking into it. Anyway,Oscar opened up a new channel to38000:24:16,800 --> 00:24:19,740us. So that's good. It's justall fragile. It's really38100:24:19,740 --> 00:24:23,340fragile. And it was it was nuts.And honestly, I don't think38200:24:23,340 --> 00:24:26,640noster is worth the trouble atthis point. Because I have a38300:24:26,640 --> 00:24:30,450couple apps with noster now it'slike, oh, really went offline. I38400:24:30,450 --> 00:24:34,710have a 1500 followers today have273 You know, it's like, oh,38500:24:34,800 --> 00:24:38,580yes, that 300 You know, stuffdoesn't come through it. The38600:24:38,670 --> 00:24:43,230it's not primetime yet. Itreally isn't. If it ever will be38700:24:43,380 --> 00:24:46,920in this use case of like aTwitter. I'm not so sure. You38800:24:46,920 --> 00:24:49,950know, listening to what AlexGabe said was who by the ways?38900:24:50,160 --> 00:24:55,440He's 31 he's not he's, he's Ithought he was younger. Why do39000:24:55,440 --> 00:25:02,100you think I'm a Zoomer? Aren'tyou 24/7 Oh, no, man, I was old39100:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,920is your daughter? Oh, that makesme feel good. Thanks feel much39200:25:04,920 --> 00:25:05,430better.39300:25:07,259 --> 00:25:11,249I think the I don't reallyunderstand the use case either.39400:25:11,249 --> 00:25:16,469I mean not noster for that youimplement it, I can envision it39500:25:16,559 --> 00:25:19,829certain things it'd be in goodfor but like that we have39600:25:19,829 --> 00:25:24,629Mastodon and activity pub andthese open. I don't understand39700:25:24,719 --> 00:25:30,209why this is really a thing. Imean, I don't ask it for, ya39800:25:30,210 --> 00:25:32,550know, we're asking for a lot ofhate. So I'm not really39900:25:32,550 --> 00:25:35,250interested in a lot of hate. AndI mean, I'm on it, you know,40000:25:35,250 --> 00:25:38,640I'm, I'm along for the ride. I'minterested. I'm trying to get it40100:25:38,970 --> 00:25:41,940to figure it out. And theexperiences vary all over the40200:25:41,940 --> 00:25:44,670map, you know, unless you're ondamos, which I'm sure it has40300:25:44,670 --> 00:25:47,940their own relay. And, you know,but that's kind of a closest,40400:25:47,940 --> 00:25:50,280and if you're out on the edge,you screwed.40500:25:50,969 --> 00:25:54,269Well, Spencer said, if an HDLCgets stuck and expires, all the40600:25:54,269 --> 00:25:57,659channels along that route willclose. There you go. It's an40700:25:57,659 --> 00:25:58,589Automatic Pro. Yeah,40800:25:58,590 --> 00:26:03,540that's right. That's right.That's exactly what what Graham40900:26:03,540 --> 00:26:07,140said, if it expires andeverything along the route.41000:26:07,140 --> 00:26:08,430That's right. That's right.41100:26:09,810 --> 00:26:13,260So I mean, on the on theordinals thing, though,41200:26:13,800 --> 00:26:19,800before I get to that one lastbit, one last bit of data. I41300:26:19,800 --> 00:26:25,200asked Graham, is there alimitation? To how many key send41400:26:26,100 --> 00:26:29,790transactions you can do at onetime? I say, is there a, is41500:26:29,790 --> 00:26:33,840there a limitation, the serverlimitation? Or is there an it41600:26:33,840 --> 00:26:40,410turns out, per lightningchannel? There's a limitation of41700:26:40,410 --> 00:26:47,070428 in flight H TLCS. At a time.That's the protocol limit per41800:26:47,070 --> 00:26:50,610channel. It's unlikely we hitthat unlikely we will hit that.41900:26:50,610 --> 00:26:53,790But it's I mean, it could itcould easily happen from from a42000:26:53,790 --> 00:26:54,690channel like fountain.42100:26:56,130 --> 00:27:01,140If you have 428 Fountain usersall sending a key send at the42200:27:01,140 --> 00:27:04,260same time. Yeah, it couldhappen. It could have for sure.42300:27:04,260 --> 00:27:08,190And that tells me that thattells me that for for the big42400:27:08,190 --> 00:27:14,190channels like like fountain orLNP? Or we should be we should42500:27:14,190 --> 00:27:15,090have multiple channels42600:27:15,090 --> 00:27:19,770channels. Exactly. Alright.Ordinis ordinals? Yeah, so42700:27:19,890 --> 00:27:23,160the ordered, like interest ingeneral, I kind of want to know42800:27:23,160 --> 00:27:28,140your general thoughts. But it tome, to me the this idea of using42900:27:29,010 --> 00:27:35,280the side of using SegWit as sortof this freaky side chain thing43000:27:35,910 --> 00:27:39,120is I don't think it's a sidechain thing. Well,43100:27:39,120 --> 00:27:43,050I mean, in quotes, I mean, it'sdefinitely it's the way that as43200:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,040that I read about it beingdescribed how it was working, it43300:27:47,040 --> 00:27:50,490used that term in quotes, but Imean, it is sort of a, you're43400:27:50,490 --> 00:27:54,600stuffing that transaction into aplaces is really, I mean, by by43500:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,770protocol design, it could getyou know, it's fine. But like43600:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,040you end up with, so what are wesupposed to do, we're supposed43700:28:02,040 --> 00:28:04,890to end up with blockchains thatare gigantic, that we then go43800:28:04,890 --> 00:28:07,200back and purge all this stuffout of now.43900:28:07,380 --> 00:28:10,530That's the way I understand it.And I'm probably getting this44000:28:10,530 --> 00:28:14,070wrong, I thought it's more likenew mastics where, you know, oh,44100:28:14,070 --> 00:28:18,240this is a very rare Satoshi it'sthe it's the 33rd Satoshi in the44200:28:18,240 --> 00:28:21,600block, or something like that.And you can mark that and then44300:28:21,600 --> 00:28:24,660you can, you can say, all right,or you can claim it or you can44400:28:24,660 --> 00:28:28,890tag it somehow you can put a URLin there, which of course, is44500:28:28,890 --> 00:28:32,040why that you have to pay forthat the more data that goes in,44600:28:32,520 --> 00:28:37,860and then you have you know, justlike the just like NF T's you44700:28:37,860 --> 00:28:41,700know, there's some other not onthe blockchain thing that has a44800:28:42,390 --> 00:28:49,080frog picture or something thatrelates to that. And it's, you44900:28:49,080 --> 00:28:53,580know, I think it's just and Ithink it also seems to be45000:28:53,580 --> 00:28:56,400shaking out a little bit thatyou know, all of these shit45100:28:56,400 --> 00:28:59,760coins are literally shitting thebed they're you know, SEC is45200:28:59,760 --> 00:29:03,690after the everything's closingdown it's you know, the just a45300:29:03,690 --> 00:29:07,140lot of things happening withwith alternative blockchain45400:29:07,140 --> 00:29:12,420related coins. And it seems likeno, oh, let's do this on on the45500:29:12,420 --> 00:29:15,390Bitcoin Blockchain, which, fromwhat I understand taproot45600:29:15,390 --> 00:29:16,440actually enabled45700:29:16,950 --> 00:29:21,150it did that yeah, that's that'show understanding as well, but45800:29:21,150 --> 00:29:23,790you know, the, the way that itwas the way that it was45900:29:23,790 --> 00:29:26,730described in found a pretty goodarticle where they were just46000:29:26,730 --> 00:29:32,370goes straight through it. And Imean, it's not a white paper, it46100:29:32,370 --> 00:29:36,540was just a description, but Imean, it read to me as if, oh,46200:29:36,540 --> 00:29:40,290don't worry about this blocksize, these block size increases46300:29:40,290 --> 00:29:43,590because this is all justpurgeable data anyway, for any46400:29:43,590 --> 00:29:45,870for people who are notinterested in this specific46500:29:45,870 --> 00:29:50,010transaction in like, you canjust you know, it's, you don't46600:29:50,010 --> 00:29:52,980you don't need to retain thisbecause it's just part of this,46700:29:53,610 --> 00:29:56,460you know, extra space that thisthing is taking advantage of.46800:29:56,730 --> 00:30:00,000You can purge that out of theactual the transaction room46900:30:00,000 --> 00:30:03,210mange in your in your database,we can purge out the other stuff47000:30:03,210 --> 00:30:04,350that's been jammed in there.47100:30:04,470 --> 00:30:07,260Yeah, that was my understandingof it because like you mark this47200:30:07,290 --> 00:30:11,220market UTX Oh, and then you havethis this SegWit space that is47300:30:11,220 --> 00:30:12,240being stuffed with this47400:30:12,240 --> 00:30:14,490inscription kind of like ourTLVs in a way.47500:30:15,570 --> 00:30:20,100I think I think so. Yeah. Muchmore Mia, but at the base layer47600:30:20,100 --> 00:30:24,720and a whole lot bigger. I don'tknow, I feel like we I feel like47700:30:24,720 --> 00:30:27,810Roy will have all the answers tothis. Well, I47800:30:27,810 --> 00:30:31,140like seeing that really. It'slike, okay, Bitcoin just goes,47900:30:31,140 --> 00:30:35,760Okay, whatever do that. And thenit basically an attack. The way48000:30:35,760 --> 00:30:38,310I see it, I think it's anattack. And Bitcoin goes okay,48100:30:38,310 --> 00:30:40,800it'll cost you more. There yougo. You paid now it sucked at48200:30:40,800 --> 00:30:44,130the minute This happened for usbecause closures as channels48300:30:44,130 --> 00:30:47,790didn't close because it wasn'tenough predetermined fee. It's48400:30:47,790 --> 00:30:52,020expensive. It's expensive toopen channels. But that I've48500:30:52,020 --> 00:30:54,840seen that even out quite a bitover over the last couple of48600:30:54,840 --> 00:31:00,660days. But wow, you know, holycrap. That's just it just it's48700:31:00,690 --> 00:31:04,080amazing to watch what's goingon. We live in very interesting48800:31:04,080 --> 00:31:05,370times. Dave Jones?48900:31:05,970 --> 00:31:09,030Well, lots of things. I thinkit's worth saying this. I mean,49000:31:09,030 --> 00:31:13,170lots of things. The fragilitythat you see in a lot of these49100:31:13,170 --> 00:31:17,190things, there's a in likelightning and this sort of,49200:31:17,520 --> 00:31:20,850there's a lot of stuff, a lot oftechnology that is just that is49300:31:21,000 --> 00:31:24,090easily this fragile. Oh, yeah.But you just don't see it49400:31:24,090 --> 00:31:26,700because it's stuffed in adatacenter. Somewhere, like this49500:31:26,700 --> 00:31:29,820is all just playing out inpublic. But I mean, we, you49600:31:29,820 --> 00:31:34,200know, people in this at asysadmin level deal with this49700:31:34,200 --> 00:31:38,880source of all the time where youwhere you're like, you're trying49800:31:38,880 --> 00:31:43,560to put a new technology to useand it's got some real funky49900:31:43,560 --> 00:31:46,350stuff with it that has to beworked out over time. I mean,50000:31:46,710 --> 00:31:50,850it's just that this looks, itjust looks, it probably looks50100:31:50,850 --> 00:31:54,510more scary than it really is. Onthe outside. You know,50200:31:54,720 --> 00:31:58,530what the one thing I enjoy aboutthe noster experience, though,50300:31:58,830 --> 00:32:02,400is that people have an ofcourse, we know how this works.50400:32:02,490 --> 00:32:08,280People have substituted likesfor zaps. So someone likes what50500:32:08,280 --> 00:32:11,130you wrote, then all of a sudden,you get 1000 SATs from them.50600:32:11,820 --> 00:32:15,840I've gotten 10,000 from peoplebefore. And that is kind of50700:32:15,840 --> 00:32:19,320really broken. Because I don'tknow, it's my setup, I guess. I50800:32:19,320 --> 00:32:22,170don't know who's sending it. Itdoesn't show up in Albi who sent50900:32:22,170 --> 00:32:25,170it, because that's that's thethat's the address I use for51000:32:25,170 --> 00:32:30,450that. But it's kind of fun tosee people parting with value in51100:32:30,450 --> 00:32:34,680that way. But at the same time,you know, they'll post donations51200:32:34,680 --> 00:32:36,990don't work here have had 1000sites.51300:32:39,000 --> 00:32:43,380My my thinking on the Bitcoinspace in the space of all this51400:32:43,410 --> 00:32:48,060from the beginning has been likeanything that we can do. As a we51500:32:48,060 --> 00:32:52,770loosely just mean in general,anything that people can do to51600:32:53,250 --> 00:32:58,920make people part with with theircoin and spend it instead of51700:32:58,920 --> 00:33:03,240just this sort of like, I don'tknow, toxic huddle thing where I51800:33:03,240 --> 00:33:07,200mean, yeah, I mean, sure, holdhold hold on to your assets. I'm51900:33:07,200 --> 00:33:11,610not saying that but I mean, likethe the the problem with Bitcoin52000:33:11,610 --> 00:33:13,980for a long time with the cultureof Bitcoin has been people are52100:33:13,980 --> 00:33:16,590not people don't spend themoney. So you're sort of like52200:33:16,590 --> 00:33:21,450feeding Gresham's Law by by notdoing anything. And so like, if52300:33:21,450 --> 00:33:24,780we can get people throughbooster grams, or, you know,52400:33:24,810 --> 00:33:28,410zaps or whatever, I mean, aslong as as long as the thing52500:33:28,410 --> 00:33:31,740that we're doing is to getpeople to, to actually transact52600:33:31,740 --> 00:33:35,040with this stuff, and we can sothat the mechanism of price52700:33:35,040 --> 00:33:38,580discovery, and it can form amarket the problem with Bitcoin52800:33:38,580 --> 00:33:42,210is it's not financialized likethere's there's a lot of things52900:33:42,690 --> 00:33:45,120that you wish you could do withBitcoin, there's just no way to53000:33:45,120 --> 00:33:48,450do it. There's no financialinstrument or facility to do53100:33:48,450 --> 00:33:53,430things with it. So like in orderto make that happen, Now, step53200:33:53,430 --> 00:33:56,850one, like the first step youhave to take is to get people53300:33:56,850 --> 00:34:00,210comfortable with actuallyspending it. And so I think that53400:34:00,210 --> 00:34:04,290any of that stuff, ultimately,maybe the protocol isn't, won't53500:34:04,290 --> 00:34:07,410work out or shake out, you know,the way people hoped. But as53600:34:07,410 --> 00:34:10,530long as we it's more of a mindgame to me, it's about getting53700:34:10,530 --> 00:34:13,740people to actually be okay andget used to spending this stuff.53800:34:13,740 --> 00:34:14,100Well,53900:34:14,430 --> 00:34:18,600the way I see it, you're soakingin and maj because podcasting54000:34:18,600 --> 00:34:22,1402.0 I mean, what what'shappening is people are54100:34:22,140 --> 00:34:27,150receiving, they're earning inSatoshis they're re spending it54200:34:27,150 --> 00:34:33,900on other podcasts. I use I'veconnected my my Alby wallet to54300:34:33,900 --> 00:34:37,620pod verse, which is greatbecause I have oh man I might54400:34:37,620 --> 00:34:41,460have 2 million SATs in therenow. And that's really just from54500:34:41,490 --> 00:34:44,580you know, bits and pieces comingin because that's that's a 1%54600:34:44,580 --> 00:34:50,340split on the shows I do and I'vehad it for a while but you know,54700:34:50,370 --> 00:34:54,990I use that the other day to topay for some holy cow beef you54800:34:54,990 --> 00:34:57,150know, they're they're comingthrough town to go into Austin54900:34:57,360 --> 00:35:01,560and an always sends me an emailshe says Hey, we're coming55000:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,530through anything you want know Iordered some breakfast sausages55100:35:04,530 --> 00:35:10,470and some chicken thighs whichthey have and I can't remember55200:35:10,470 --> 00:35:14,970all this I'm tallow thing, itwas like 96 bucks. And, and she55300:35:14,970 --> 00:35:17,880just sends me she knows me. Soshe just sends me a QR code55400:35:17,880 --> 00:35:21,570through ibex, which still is notdoing Kishen. And, you know,55500:35:21,570 --> 00:35:26,100it's just like copy, paste,boom, done, you know, and it55600:35:26,100 --> 00:35:30,360felt good. And it was from myearnings from earnings that I55700:35:30,390 --> 00:35:34,920that I got into into my wallet.And so it really is happening.55800:35:35,400 --> 00:35:39,270And I agree, whether you do thepodcast in 2.0 is a great place55900:35:39,510 --> 00:35:42,540to transact was a great placefor people to get comfortable56000:35:42,540 --> 00:35:47,310with it. When you buy it, youknow, the hodler Sure they buy56100:35:47,310 --> 00:35:50,700it, however, they're buying itfrom an exchange. And I can56200:35:50,700 --> 00:35:53,340understand why you know, thatculture is still there. But56300:35:53,580 --> 00:35:56,430things like podcasts in 2.0things like the beef initiative56400:35:56,430 --> 00:36:00,570and and noster are changing thatculture. And I think it's very56500:36:00,570 --> 00:36:02,610it's a very positivedevelopment.56600:36:02,730 --> 00:36:07,050A real market. A real currencyhas holders as savers and56700:36:07,050 --> 00:36:09,510spenders. Correct. You can't itcan't just be one or the other.56800:36:09,600 --> 00:36:10,110I heard56900:36:10,529 --> 00:36:14,489her James Cridland is taking allthe SATs. I've boosted the pod57000:36:14,489 --> 00:36:18,269news weekly review with and he'sgoing to buy drinks for57100:36:18,269 --> 00:36:22,319everybody at Podcast Movement.No, which would be it would be57200:36:22,769 --> 00:36:25,769it would be better if he waspaying for those drinks with57300:36:25,799 --> 00:36:26,639Satoshis.57400:36:27,089 --> 00:36:29,639That wouldn't be bad. I wonderif they if they have clothes, if57500:36:29,639 --> 00:36:32,939they have those Clover Point ofsale terminals might that might57600:36:32,939 --> 00:36:33,389work.57700:36:33,420 --> 00:36:38,520Yeah, we can put you know. Whatis it to Cash App, strike,57800:36:38,550 --> 00:36:40,410strike, strike, strike, strike.There57900:36:40,410 --> 00:36:42,450you go. Yeah, they're doing thatpartnership thing. That would be58000:36:42,450 --> 00:36:44,970cool. And then he said you couldgo button right here, boom,58100:36:44,970 --> 00:36:45,630right in there, which I58200:36:45,630 --> 00:36:48,120was okay with bunnies like, andthen we'll have to invite58300:36:48,120 --> 00:36:52,170British people. I'm like, No, Ididn't donate for Brits. No,58400:36:52,200 --> 00:36:53,070that's no good.58500:36:55,170 --> 00:36:56,400We fought a war for that.58600:36:57,570 --> 00:37:01,830So before we bring in our ourfellow board member for the58700:37:01,860 --> 00:37:03,930board meeting today who's beenwaiting in the wings very58800:37:03,930 --> 00:37:07,050patiently. And I have a heartout by the way. I got a heart58900:37:07,050 --> 00:37:15,420out. I love Hey, got a heart outat like, three o'clock. I have59000:37:15,420 --> 00:37:20,100an oral emergency proceduretaking place today. You can you59100:37:20,100 --> 00:37:21,960can hear me slipping at all. Idon't know if that's59200:37:22,589 --> 00:37:25,109a little bit. It's not it's notterrible. It happens.59300:37:25,589 --> 00:37:29,219When I get more tired. It'sworse anyway. There's some it'll59400:37:29,219 --> 00:37:34,169only be sore for one or twodays. Okay. That's like, I59500:37:34,169 --> 00:37:38,159don't. My first wife had someplastic surgery done several59600:37:38,159 --> 00:37:39,479times. And59700:37:41,550 --> 00:37:44,670like that phraseology. She hassome plastic surgery done59800:37:44,820 --> 00:37:45,720several times59900:37:45,720 --> 00:37:49,290I paid for that Miss PotatoHeads anyway. And it was always60000:37:49,290 --> 00:37:52,500the same. There'll be somebruising for a couple of days.60100:37:53,190 --> 00:38:00,990Lie. lie. Lie. Weeks. Yeah,exactly. So our guest will be in60200:38:00,990 --> 00:38:04,080a in a moment, our fellow boardmember, I just want him to react60300:38:04,080 --> 00:38:08,520respond to all of the negativeSpotify articles that are that60400:38:08,520 --> 00:38:12,780have been out there. I think twobig ones really, that the people60500:38:12,780 --> 00:38:15,450are talking about. And it's youknow, it's about the bets not60600:38:15,450 --> 00:38:19,950paying off and all this stuff.So at first, I wanted to say60700:38:19,950 --> 00:38:24,360that, you know, when McKinseycame to called me to interview60800:38:24,360 --> 00:38:29,400me for the research they weredoing for Spotify, podcast60900:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,890strategy, I said, you cannotmonetize the network. Now, I61000:38:34,890 --> 00:38:37,530don't know what McKinsey did.They probably didn't put that in61100:38:37,530 --> 00:38:41,760the final product. And I thoughtand this is my I mean, it took61200:38:41,760 --> 00:38:45,840me 10 years and $65 million torealize that it doesn't work.61300:38:46,320 --> 00:38:49,680And it's truly because of thedecentralized nature thank thank61400:38:49,680 --> 00:38:53,580you thank God for RSS for thankyou all to all the hosting61500:38:53,580 --> 00:38:57,210companies big and small alikewho are still there. Most of61600:38:57,210 --> 00:39:00,630them still they're veryimpressive. This is the main61700:39:00,630 --> 00:39:04,050reason and I think theprotection you and I built in61800:39:04,050 --> 00:39:10,020initially with as our as ourmission was the the ability for61900:39:10,230 --> 00:39:14,220independent developers todevelop on a database that that62000:39:14,220 --> 00:39:18,000didn't cost anything that theyhad influence on by being a part62100:39:18,000 --> 00:39:21,870of the of the community. And andfor them being able to62200:39:21,870 --> 00:39:24,240participate in the money flow.Those two things were set up62300:39:24,240 --> 00:39:29,610from the get go specificallywith value for value so that the62400:39:29,760 --> 00:39:33,810developers and other partiesanyone who is doing something62500:39:33,810 --> 00:39:38,940can participate in the valueblock splits. So I do not think62600:39:38,940 --> 00:39:41,910it'll be very easy for Spotify.They have an activist investor62700:39:41,910 --> 00:39:45,030now in the company. This is thisis some bullshit if you have a62800:39:45,030 --> 00:39:47,850company I ran a public companywe took up my own company62900:39:47,850 --> 00:39:52,200public. When you if you get anactivist investor, your life is63000:39:52,200 --> 00:40:00,000hell. The Board Meetings Suck.It's depending on the level of a63100:40:00,000 --> 00:40:04,380of investment they've made. AndI think this was even a little63200:40:04,380 --> 00:40:07,440bit. So Spotify didn't reallygo. I mean, they they're a63300:40:07,440 --> 00:40:11,190public company, but they didn'tdo an IPO in a traditional way.63400:40:11,190 --> 00:40:14,340I think we talked about that,didn't we? Yeah, they did raise63500:40:14,340 --> 00:40:18,420billions of dollars. Now, theygot all the early investors out63600:40:18,420 --> 00:40:21,480on their pay day, which wasmainly record companies, etc.63700:40:21,900 --> 00:40:26,220And some banks, with hundreds ofmillions of dollars by going63800:40:26,220 --> 00:40:30,480public, so then they couldmonetize their, their their very63900:40:30,480 --> 00:40:34,980early investment. So they'veraised money, but they didn't64000:40:34,980 --> 00:40:39,270raise money with the IPO. And soclearly, they have to raise some64100:40:39,270 --> 00:40:43,380new money. And now comes thereally smart money. And that's64200:40:43,380 --> 00:40:46,590an activist investor. And theactivist investor, I think that64300:40:46,620 --> 00:40:50,790that the original shareholderswill dilute. They're not just64400:40:50,790 --> 00:40:53,040buying shares on the openmarket, I think they're buying64500:40:53,070 --> 00:40:56,340shares from existing holdersinside, like inside shares.64600:40:56,340 --> 00:40:58,620Yeah. Or it could be a sharesthat were set aside for64700:40:58,620 --> 00:41:01,230employees a lot of a lot ofdifferent ways to do it. But64800:41:01,230 --> 00:41:04,680that's real money that they canconvert into, into cash that64900:41:04,680 --> 00:41:12,780they can spend. And, and I justwanted to say, in this forum,65000:41:12,990 --> 00:41:17,790this is a tremendous opportunityfor Spotify, because they can65100:41:17,790 --> 00:41:25,740blow the activist investors awayby showing the way the showing65200:41:25,740 --> 00:41:30,180the world that the way to go, isnot in the way that everyone65300:41:30,180 --> 00:41:34,830else is trying. But becompletely open, join the open65400:41:34,830 --> 00:41:41,100system. Join if you know, buildyour app to be a better podcast65500:41:41,100 --> 00:41:45,960app. Let's start with that. It'san OK app. And you have a great65600:41:45,960 --> 00:41:49,500audience, you know, so it works.It's an okay app, that's like,65700:41:49,740 --> 00:41:53,730we were just on podcast.com.That's audible. All right. So65800:41:53,760 --> 00:41:56,940you know, they mesh it in withtheir audio books, but but65900:41:56,940 --> 00:41:59,670really invest in building agreat app, and you can kick66000:41:59,700 --> 00:42:03,480everyone's ass at your level,Apple, Google or whatever66100:42:03,480 --> 00:42:09,270Google's doing. Amazon, anythingelse? By showing Oh, look, we66200:42:09,270 --> 00:42:13,380have we've enabled all thishundreds of 1000s of feeds that66300:42:13,380 --> 00:42:21,990have 2.0 named namespace,podcast namespace content, that66400:42:21,990 --> 00:42:26,250no one else is surfacing. Youcan do it, you could even do66500:42:26,250 --> 00:42:30,420lit, you have the infrastructurefor that. If you really wanted66600:42:30,420 --> 00:42:33,390to, I would advise against it.But you could even reboot the66700:42:33,390 --> 00:42:38,550albatross known as anchor. Andwe'd be so happy to have you on66800:42:38,550 --> 00:42:42,060board. We really would, it wouldit would lift everybody, it66900:42:42,060 --> 00:42:45,540would lift all of podcasting.Now, I know that this will67000:42:45,540 --> 00:42:49,650probably fall on deaf ears. ButI just wanted to say, this is67100:42:49,650 --> 00:42:53,010the opportunity. This is atremendous opportunity for67200:42:53,010 --> 00:42:57,990Spotify. And if they if they ifthey just start to tamp down, I67300:42:57,990 --> 00:43:00,930just see, it's I went throughthis is a 10 year process of67400:43:00,930 --> 00:43:05,550shutting everything down. It'ssad. The employees become sad,67500:43:05,550 --> 00:43:08,460you know, the stock code. It'sjust it's a sad Scituate sad,67600:43:08,460 --> 00:43:16,080sad situation. The Elton Johncame up. And, and and go open,67700:43:16,710 --> 00:43:21,420go open, go big. People willlove you for it. And you will67800:43:21,420 --> 00:43:26,160create a better product and youcan participate in massive flow.67900:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,270And Joe Rogan will be a part ofthat too. I know he would love68000:43:30,270 --> 00:43:33,570to do it. Go open. Stop theinsanity.68100:43:34,260 --> 00:43:36,630I can imagine that haveobviously never been in that68200:43:36,630 --> 00:43:39,720position. But I can imaginehaving an active activist68300:43:39,720 --> 00:43:43,200investor is just like, you justwake up every morning68400:43:43,200 --> 00:43:45,600immediately and self defensemode and you're just trying to68500:43:45,780 --> 00:43:48,450keep your head above watertrying to not make you know, and68600:43:48,450 --> 00:43:52,020then yeah, no, I agree. That'sit's just a great, it's this68700:43:52,020 --> 00:43:55,440moment in in the market. Is itTodd, the other day said68800:43:55,440 --> 00:43:57,780something on one of his showswhere he was like, you know,68900:43:57,960 --> 00:44:00,240hey, with the way thatpodcasting is now if you want to69000:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,050have a podcast and get your showout there and have some have69100:44:04,050 --> 00:44:07,290some make some waves, now's agreat time just because69200:44:07,320 --> 00:44:11,190everything's a little bitdepressed. So it's probably the69300:44:11,190 --> 00:44:13,680same thing with Spotify. This isa such a tremendous like this69400:44:13,680 --> 00:44:17,610right now, with Google sort ofbowing out of the podcasts,69500:44:17,700 --> 00:44:20,580space and all this kind ofstuff. Like it is a great time69600:44:20,580 --> 00:44:25,830to go and just sort of likereally shake that, because they69700:44:25,830 --> 00:44:29,820made all these investments. Butthe app didn't change very much.69800:44:29,970 --> 00:44:34,020So they on the app side ofthings. They never really, they69900:44:34,020 --> 00:44:36,480haven't pushed any realpotential. Like they haven't70000:44:36,480 --> 00:44:40,020shaken any of that up. Like ifthey really changed the app and70100:44:40,020 --> 00:44:47,550embraced, like Buzz cast. Thatwas hearing. Kevin Finn talking70200:44:47,550 --> 00:44:52,740about the person tag and howApple has stopped taking70300:44:52,740 --> 00:44:57,240submissions for those imageslike host images used to you70400:44:57,240 --> 00:44:59,730would email it to them and theywould put it in there and then70500:44:59,730 --> 00:45:02,040the host Which picture was showup? And I'd have all this70600:45:02,040 --> 00:45:04,320connectivity and that kind ofthings, totally proprietary70700:45:04,710 --> 00:45:07,890thing to them. And then, youknow, now we have the person tag70800:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,360this open system is, he's like,Well, you know, they're having70900:45:12,360 --> 00:45:15,150this big debate, well, you know,Apple would never do that,71000:45:15,150 --> 00:45:17,430because they want to control youknow, everything, which I71100:45:17,430 --> 00:45:21,240disagree with, I think theywould do it. But then, you know,71200:45:21,270 --> 00:45:23,670a company like Spotify, theycould come in, and they could71300:45:23,670 --> 00:45:25,740immediately just boom, boom,boom, they just start throwing71400:45:25,740 --> 00:45:27,270features out left and right. Andjust71500:45:27,270 --> 00:45:32,370really remember that around thesame time. Now, it was our buddy71600:45:32,370 --> 00:45:33,690over there at Apple who left?71700:45:36,750 --> 00:45:37,530Oh, yeah.71800:45:38,820 --> 00:45:43,590I've already forgotten his name.He's gone. Out of your life?71900:45:43,620 --> 00:45:47,670Yes, you did. You know, he said,No, we had a call. We talked72000:45:47,670 --> 00:45:49,950about on the show, we had a callscheduled. And he said, you want72100:45:49,950 --> 00:45:51,540to talk about what we're doing?I want to hear about, you know,72200:45:51,540 --> 00:45:53,220because he had even said, youknow, maybe come talk to the72300:45:53,220 --> 00:45:56,790team about 2.0, which nevermaterialized. I think COVID came72400:45:56,790 --> 00:46:00,120in there to just to MIT to befair. And I said the same thing,72500:46:00,150 --> 00:46:04,020do this, this is how you will belegendary. We're going to do72600:46:04,050 --> 00:46:07,080we're going to do subscriptions.Okay, fine. And that's because72700:46:07,080 --> 00:46:10,110they have an internal mechanismthat is called accounting. And72800:46:10,110 --> 00:46:12,480they have to show that all thework they're putting into it72900:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,080results in something and it'sokay, what they did, but you73000:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,170know, now you're uploading stuffto Apple itself. So they're,73100:46:19,200 --> 00:46:21,750they're really creating theirown little ecosystem, which is73200:46:21,750 --> 00:46:29,160fine. James, James Bugs, bugs,exactly. Sorry, James. Now,73300:46:29,400 --> 00:46:33,630what's even cooler about this,and we really got to bring our73400:46:33,630 --> 00:46:37,440guests and what's even coolerabout this, is that when I look73500:46:37,440 --> 00:46:42,540at what wave Lake is doing, whonow have over 100 songs placed73600:46:42,570 --> 00:46:47,070into the podcast index withvalue blocks, and I see what our73700:46:47,070 --> 00:46:54,120very own Steven B is doing.Music side project.com. Spotify73800:46:54,120 --> 00:46:58,020can this finally they can start,they can start making some money73900:46:58,020 --> 00:47:03,360and making musicians and artistsand music owners, not the people74000:47:03,360 --> 00:47:07,740who've signed deals with ASCAPBMI, the music that is owned by74100:47:07,740 --> 00:47:12,510the creators can can startmaking some actual money, they74200:47:12,510 --> 00:47:15,810will be the darlings of thebusiness. And there are now74300:47:15,810 --> 00:47:21,630hosting companies who aregetting into this and dystopia,74400:47:21,660 --> 00:47:27,870I think is the one wave lake.And many others could basically74500:47:27,870 --> 00:47:31,830flip a switch and make thishappen. And I'm looking at this74600:47:31,860 --> 00:47:36,750and it's cool. I am and there'sa lot more not more to be done,74700:47:37,500 --> 00:47:44,040obviously. But I'm just lookingat at what, there we go at74800:47:44,040 --> 00:47:47,730what's out there already. Andit's you know, and there's music74900:47:47,730 --> 00:47:53,280that is playable, it's bootable.You have immediate feedback, all75000:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,180of the 2.0 namespace, thepodcast, namespace features can75100:47:57,180 --> 00:48:01,860be used for the your bring backthe liner notes, people, I mean,75200:48:01,860 --> 00:48:06,780it's all kinds of stuff that canbe done in phenomenal ways. It's75300:48:06,780 --> 00:48:11,610ready made for and Spotify couldbe. I mean, they would go from75400:48:11,610 --> 00:48:15,300pretty much hated by the musiccommunity. If I'm honest about75500:48:15,300 --> 00:48:21,090it, if they're honest about itreally, to endeared. And you75600:48:21,090 --> 00:48:23,670know what, then instead ofwaking up and thinking, oh, what75700:48:23,670 --> 00:48:26,970does that activist investordoing? What backchannel calls am75800:48:26,970 --> 00:48:29,520I gonna get? Who are the Whoelse are they talking to? That's75900:48:29,520 --> 00:48:32,160on the board. I gotta calleverybody keep my keep my eye on76000:48:32,160 --> 00:48:36,540who's doing what, who's sayingwhat? Instead of that life? Wake76100:48:36,540 --> 00:48:37,560up to Glory.76200:48:39,990 --> 00:48:40,740Glory.76300:48:42,870 --> 00:48:45,750That's my plea. There you go.I've said what I have to say.76400:48:46,380 --> 00:48:47,370You pled76500:48:49,320 --> 00:48:54,240I have. Oh, all right. Let'sbring in our guest. He is it76600:48:54,240 --> 00:48:58,140Well, funny enough. He worked atSpotify, but now he's out there76700:48:58,140 --> 00:49:03,240doing stuff for himself. One ofthe things is a steno stenosis.76800:49:03,240 --> 00:49:06,330And first we got to ask how hepronounced it, I would say 1076900:49:06,330 --> 00:49:09,450out out FM. Ladies andgentlemen, please give a big77000:49:09,450 --> 00:49:12,720podcasting 2.0 board. Welcome toNathan gathright.77100:49:13,530 --> 00:49:15,240Hey there, Nathan.77200:49:16,560 --> 00:49:19,890How's it going? Yes. And it issteno. Like you're77300:49:19,920 --> 00:49:22,860somehow geographer you know,when I when I hear this last77400:49:22,860 --> 00:49:25,710name gathright. I expect toBritt somehow I'm not quite sure77500:49:25,710 --> 00:49:26,070why.77600:49:27,570 --> 00:49:32,580I'm texting born. A really?Yeah. Oh, I also lived in77700:49:32,580 --> 00:49:34,680Belgium for a couple years andthen back to Texas and now I'm77800:49:34,680 --> 00:49:35,790in Chicago. Really? What77900:49:35,790 --> 00:49:37,350were you doing in in Belgium?78000:49:38,370 --> 00:49:41,430My dad was working out therewhen I was in high school and78100:49:42,060 --> 00:49:44,820just pick up the family movedover there for two years for my78200:49:44,820 --> 00:49:47,100last two years of high schooland then oh, entering back to78300:49:47,100 --> 00:49:48,060the US for university.78400:49:48,420 --> 00:49:51,630Because that was kind of mystory. My parents have had to78500:49:51,630 --> 00:49:54,300work in the in the Netherlands.They picked us up I was seven.78600:49:54,300 --> 00:49:57,690How old were you when you whenyou were in Belgium 16 to 18.78700:49:57,780 --> 00:50:05,280Okay, so how long have they beenin the CIA? Are your parents so78800:50:05,280 --> 00:50:06,720you went to the InternationalSchool?78900:50:07,140 --> 00:50:10,260Oh, yeah. We're where we Antwerpabroad. I was I was down in79000:50:10,260 --> 00:50:10,650Waterloo.79100:50:11,130 --> 00:50:13,920Oh, okay. Wow. So you werespeaking more French than79200:50:13,920 --> 00:50:19,170anything I was. Yeah. Yeah. Withthe Walloons. We don't like79300:50:19,170 --> 00:50:19,530them.79400:50:21,180 --> 00:50:24,150Belgium, Belgium, Dutch, French.And was there a third an79500:50:24,150 --> 00:50:29,100alien? Mars? Yeah. So we havethe Flemish and the Walloons,79600:50:29,130 --> 00:50:33,180and they ended that's likefamily feuds from two centuries79700:50:33,180 --> 00:50:36,960ago. I mean, they that's justcrazy. They do not like each79800:50:36,960 --> 00:50:37,920other the Hatfields79900:50:37,920 --> 00:50:39,360and the McCoys, pretty muchEurope.80000:50:39,390 --> 00:50:40,800Yeah, pretty much.80100:50:41,190 --> 00:50:44,280I was told if you're if you'rein the, you know, the French80200:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,190speaking part of the country,take a shot at speaking French,80300:50:47,190 --> 00:50:49,980even if you're gonna mess it up,for sure. In the Flemish80400:50:49,980 --> 00:50:51,630speaking part of the countryjust start with English,80500:50:51,630 --> 00:50:54,120they'll, you know, they'll starton a better foot with them80600:50:54,299 --> 00:50:57,539for exactly much safer now.Well, we're glad you came out80700:50:57,539 --> 00:51:02,609alive, my friend. So, the whenwere you when did you leave80800:51:02,609 --> 00:51:03,269Spotify?80900:51:04,259 --> 00:51:06,809Just with this recent round oflayoffs. Oh, you81000:51:06,810 --> 00:51:10,500were asked to leave? I didn'trealize that. Okay. Yeah. All81100:51:10,500 --> 00:51:15,450right. Well, I hope you wouldendorse my concept for them.81200:51:15,960 --> 00:51:19,860Yeah, I think I think I wouldlove to see more open stuff81300:51:20,310 --> 00:51:22,920coming out of all the corners ofthe podcasting.81400:51:23,460 --> 00:51:25,890Yeah. And you've really embracedthis with your project.81500:51:25,890 --> 00:51:27,840steno.fm. Tell us about it.81600:51:28,410 --> 00:51:33,900Yeah. So steno FM sort of wasinspired by the, the projects81700:51:33,900 --> 00:51:37,500that sort of were coming, youknow, before the namespace came81800:51:37,500 --> 00:51:42,060around like D script, startingwith, you know, transcripts81900:51:42,060 --> 00:51:45,240based editing and other sort oftranscript based search tools.82000:51:45,270 --> 00:51:50,250But obviously, the challenges oftranscribing everybody else's82100:51:50,250 --> 00:51:54,840shows legally and monetarily,we're something that I knew was82200:51:54,840 --> 00:51:57,750never really going to be viable.So when the transcript tag came82300:51:57,750 --> 00:52:01,530around, I got real excited torevive some of my older, older82400:52:01,530 --> 00:52:05,130designs. I'm a product designerby trade. So I'm just thinking82500:52:05,130 --> 00:52:06,420about the way UX challenge82600:52:06,840 --> 00:52:09,720is great. Yeah, yeah. Thank you.Yeah, that's great.82700:52:10,290 --> 00:52:12,870So the visual, you know, thevisual challenge of like, I'd82800:52:12,870 --> 00:52:16,440want to make a better experiencethan just the equivalent of like82900:52:16,440 --> 00:52:19,770closed captions, I want to makeit, you know, searchable,83000:52:19,770 --> 00:52:25,830readable, all of that. So, youknow, for shows that provide a83100:52:25,830 --> 00:52:30,960well formatted, SRT file, VTTfile, JSON file, whatever, I do83200:52:30,960 --> 00:52:35,610the best that I can to give ityou know, a good formatting and83300:52:35,610 --> 00:52:37,320a good listening experiencealongside that.83400:52:37,410 --> 00:52:41,820So this is really a listening.Podcast experience is what's83500:52:41,820 --> 00:52:45,390done. Oh, okay. All right. Bythe way, have you seen the new83600:52:45,390 --> 00:52:51,360Hindenburg Pro to sing? BecauseI let me just give you a quick83700:52:51,360 --> 00:52:54,840review. Holy crap. Why did youguys change the interface? Why83800:52:54,840 --> 00:52:57,540did you change the colors? Youfreak me out? There's no I hate83900:52:57,540 --> 00:53:02,310that. This is your review thisreview. And and there's one84000:53:02,310 --> 00:53:08,010other part of my review, why ifI buy this? Do I have a timer84100:53:08,010 --> 00:53:12,120that says you have 10 hours oftranscript time is doing the84200:53:12,120 --> 00:53:17,760processing on my machine. Butyet somehow I'm I'm I'm, I have84300:53:17,760 --> 00:53:22,350to buy ours. I mean, it's very,it may not be that way. But that84400:53:22,350 --> 00:53:26,850was a real turnoff, just seeingthat like what I mean, and we're84500:53:26,850 --> 00:53:28,650still processing no agenda.84600:53:29,580 --> 00:53:34,980So so I know, you've beenbuilding steno for a while,84700:53:34,980 --> 00:53:39,090obviously, but then. But it'sit's sort of been live. I mean,84800:53:39,090 --> 00:53:41,910was this today was a sort oflike a soft launch. I mean, what84900:53:41,910 --> 00:53:42,840would you call this?85000:53:42,990 --> 00:53:46,440Yeah. So today are basicallyjust push a new homepage. And a85100:53:46,440 --> 00:53:50,430new trending page. trending pageis actually only discoverable if85200:53:50,430 --> 00:53:52,890you like, hit the little menu onthe top left hand corner, but85300:53:52,890 --> 00:53:59,190it's a op three powered pagewith trending episodes that have85400:53:59,190 --> 00:54:07,080a podcast and D have transcriptsand have the OP three prefix. So85500:54:07,080 --> 00:54:09,570if you're supporting both ofthose things, hey, I'm trending85600:54:09,570 --> 00:54:10,380the trending page, I'm85700:54:10,380 --> 00:54:12,960trying mascon A bottle no agendatrending?85800:54:13,439 --> 00:54:17,789Am I trending? Or is it just,you know, way down the page? I'm85900:54:18,209 --> 00:54:20,339down the page. Oh, yeah, you'retrending down there.86000:54:21,180 --> 00:54:22,860We're trending. Well, what86100:54:22,860 --> 00:54:25,560is so so when I was looking atthis the other day, it says86200:54:25,560 --> 00:54:29,910Power BI op three, and I'massuming that means that let me86300:54:29,910 --> 00:54:33,090ask you some questions. So I'massuming that that means that op86400:54:33,090 --> 00:54:38,670three is where you're gettingthe sort of, kind of lack of a86500:54:38,670 --> 00:54:42,300better term popularity data ordownloads. Yeah. So that's how86600:54:42,300 --> 00:54:44,430you get your your ranking typeof thing.86700:54:44,910 --> 00:54:47,850Yeah, for lack made me made alittle custom endpoint for me.86800:54:48,480 --> 00:54:50,640That's specifically you know,filtering down86900:54:50,640 --> 00:54:51,960to just what are you just87000:54:53,520 --> 00:54:54,600asking you shall receive,87100:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,850okay, and then. So does thatmean that you have to be only if87200:54:59,850 --> 00:55:03,150you're Show is not using theOpie three prefix you you won't87300:55:03,150 --> 00:55:04,230show up in steno,87400:55:04,650 --> 00:55:07,590you won't show up in thetrending page. But from the87500:55:07,590 --> 00:55:11,430homepage, you can searchliterally any show. I'm my87600:55:11,430 --> 00:55:16,350search box pulls from both thepodcast index API and the apple87700:55:16,440 --> 00:55:16,950API.87800:55:17,610 --> 00:55:21,750Okay, so in the in the, in the,in the main discovery page, it's87900:55:21,780 --> 00:55:25,650the popular shows withtranscripts. How are you88000:55:25,650 --> 00:55:28,830determining if they're popular?What's your factors there?88100:55:28,860 --> 00:55:31,350This is just manual. This is inthat case, that's just a88200:55:31,410 --> 00:55:35,070manually curated page for now.If Cena doesn't really have any88300:55:35,070 --> 00:55:36,300sort of usage, yeah.88400:55:36,690 --> 00:55:40,920Okay. Yeah. If books could killpodcast is great podcast. Yeah.88500:55:41,490 --> 00:55:45,600They, so you're, you're notusing any other algorithm?88600:55:45,600 --> 00:55:48,030You're just kind of handcurating that list? Yeah. For88700:55:48,030 --> 00:55:51,390now. Okay, do you have any,like, are you going to change88800:55:51,390 --> 00:55:53,490that you're gonna make it somesort of automated thing?88900:55:53,609 --> 00:55:57,749Yeah, I've spent Oh, gets enoughusage to pull from my own data,89000:55:57,839 --> 00:56:02,279then that I can switch to that.But for now, it was just looking89100:56:02,279 --> 00:56:06,449at top ranking charts andcrawling feeds trying to see89200:56:06,449 --> 00:56:10,499what has transcript tags. I wastalking with Dan Meisner, and he89300:56:10,499 --> 00:56:14,849said, You know, I think familiarcover art is would do a lot for89400:56:14,849 --> 00:56:19,529steno. So the more popular theshow in the general public, the89500:56:19,559 --> 00:56:22,619more curious somebody will bemore engaged, they will to poke89600:56:22,619 --> 00:56:26,639around the app and give it ashot. So try to find the most89700:56:26,669 --> 00:56:29,099recognizable shows I could andput it on this.89800:56:29,130 --> 00:56:31,740Here's something interesting,and it's probably a bug. It's a89900:56:31,740 --> 00:56:36,210bug. But I it may be a bug on myside, which is actually really90000:56:36,210 --> 00:56:39,660good. Because I think no, it'sso I searched for curry in the90100:56:39,660 --> 00:56:43,530keeper, which is show I do havemy wife, curry and the keeper.90200:56:44,670 --> 00:56:47,880And so you have three results.Your Apple podcast, podcast90300:56:47,880 --> 00:56:50,760index, what is RSS? It doesn'tshow up there. But what is RSS?90400:56:50,760 --> 00:56:54,330So if you just want to put in anRSS Oh, okay. Precisely. So90500:56:54,360 --> 00:56:57,210podcast index, it shows up. Iclick on podcasting. This is90600:56:57,210 --> 00:57:00,090creating the keeper teen andAdam curry. I click on it. And90700:57:00,090 --> 00:57:06,150it gives me no agenda. And Ibelieve that is because for some90800:57:06,180 --> 00:57:12,690reason that we're still workingon the podcast. ID is the same90900:57:12,840 --> 00:57:17,190in Korean the keeper as it is inno agenda. The good The Good,91000:57:17,190 --> 00:57:20,370The Good, the good. Yeah, thegood. So this is searching based91100:57:20,370 --> 00:57:22,020on good, which is cool,actually.91200:57:22,230 --> 00:57:26,760Yeah. So all the show pages aregood results. So send out Auto91300:57:27,300 --> 00:57:32,580Show slash guid will take youand at that point, I am then91400:57:32,610 --> 00:57:34,920hitting the index to look upthat Gu ID and91500:57:35,670 --> 00:57:38,640oh, that's I mean, so I mean, INationally it's my it's my91600:57:38,640 --> 00:57:40,560problem. I know. But it'sexcellent. You're doing that.91700:57:40,560 --> 00:57:45,180I'm good. I love that. Yeah.Excellent. You little techno91800:57:45,180 --> 00:57:45,870man. You91900:57:45,900 --> 00:57:48,630know, I'm a, you know, I'm an Aplus student, I tried to check92000:57:48,630 --> 00:57:53,430off as many of the boxes on thenamespace that I did in short92100:57:53,430 --> 00:57:53,760order.92200:57:54,210 --> 00:57:58,980Well, this is this is great fora lot of reasons. But so to veer92300:57:58,980 --> 00:58:03,240off for a second, which issomething we never do but to92400:58:03,660 --> 00:58:08,430veer for a second, like, So Toddhad this comment the other day92500:58:08,460 --> 00:58:15,120on? On his show, where he said,See, I wrote a note and he says92600:58:15,210 --> 00:58:18,690he said he hoped that we haven'trun out of ideas with92700:58:18,690 --> 00:58:22,830podcasting. 2.0 like goodness,like we're like, what comes next92800:58:22,830 --> 00:58:27,510sort of thing. And it's, I justwant to, it's felt like a time92900:58:27,510 --> 00:58:30,120to do that to talk about that.Because I mean, there's tons of93000:58:30,120 --> 00:58:33,660ideas, I mean, like playlists,open subscriptions, channels,93100:58:33,660 --> 00:58:38,640bonus items, shared soundbites.Just looking down the list of93200:58:38,640 --> 00:58:43,950their sponsor, stage, guests,you know, has guests remote93300:58:43,950 --> 00:58:47,850item, but there's that's justthose just like an initial93400:58:47,850 --> 00:58:52,230cursory glance. So but the thingI think they were talking about,93500:58:52,230 --> 00:58:55,410they felt like there's a generalslowdown. That is on purpose. I93600:58:55,410 --> 00:58:58,860mean, that that is a thing. I'vetalked about this before. Like,93700:58:59,160 --> 00:59:04,560I don't run the namespace. Imean, it's not my project, to me93800:59:04,560 --> 00:59:08,490belongs to the community. But,but I do. And I'm conscious of93900:59:08,490 --> 00:59:12,030the fact that I do have theability to sort of set the speed94000:59:12,060 --> 00:59:17,070of things in the tone, becauseI'm the one that mostly does the94100:59:17,100 --> 00:59:19,950pull request, you know,approvals and things like that.94200:59:20,310 --> 00:59:25,860And so, it was a very consciousdecision on my part to slow down94300:59:25,860 --> 00:59:28,920the pace of things a little bitbecause we I mean, we outran94400:59:29,250 --> 00:59:32,820everybody with 100 differenttags. And people had only94500:59:32,820 --> 00:59:37,470implemented like three. We justdidn't it didn't make any sense94600:59:37,470 --> 00:59:40,530to just keep going and going andgoing. And the reason is because94700:59:40,530 --> 00:59:44,550and I'm bringing this backaround us where the reason that94800:59:44,550 --> 00:59:50,040this is important, is because ofthings like Gu ID. So so we're94900:59:50,040 --> 00:59:53,220gonna do one of the things thatwe've got, we've got in the in95000:59:53,220 --> 01:00:00,000the pipe that's just beensitting there. Dormant is to95101:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,840channels, podcasts channels.Podcast channels is going to95201:00:03,840 --> 01:00:07,860depend on GUID. This the samething that the same mishmash we95301:00:07,860 --> 01:00:14,520ended up with with with, withlit lit depends on pod pain. So95401:00:14,820 --> 01:00:20,220the pod pain had to be had to befully formed in you know before95501:00:20,250 --> 01:00:23,850lit could be fully formed. Sothere's a lot of things guid is95601:00:23,850 --> 01:00:28,530actually a really importantpiece of the overall puzzle95701:00:28,530 --> 01:00:34,110going forward. Because this ideathat we need to take URLs are95801:00:34,110 --> 01:00:37,740impermanent, people move theirshows all the time, it is not an95901:00:37,740 --> 01:00:40,350uncommon thing for this tohappen. People move from host to96001:00:40,350 --> 01:00:43,350host, they go to self host, andthey go back, blah, blah, blah,96101:00:43,470 --> 01:00:49,860they get bought. So the ideathat you that your URL, is your96201:00:49,860 --> 01:00:53,490universal identifier really justdoesn't work. So the idea of the96301:00:53,580 --> 01:00:59,100podcast Gu ID, that can be youryour actual permanent ID and96401:00:59,100 --> 01:01:02,670your show, oh, in the showresult, the good resolves to the96501:01:02,670 --> 01:01:07,170URL that is in something that'sthat is critical for a lot of96601:01:07,170 --> 01:01:10,230things that come downstream. Sothe fact that you're doing this96701:01:10,230 --> 01:01:12,420nation is phenomenal, beautiful,phenomenal.96801:01:12,420 --> 01:01:16,110I love that. And by the way, Idon't know what this is. Have96901:01:16,110 --> 01:01:17,610you ever heard the ISO baht?97001:01:19,350 --> 01:01:20,610In the chat room? No,97101:01:20,819 --> 01:01:25,109no, literally someone's typingin? No, I'm an A plus student.97201:01:25,109 --> 01:01:27,629And that has a link to an mp3And you97301:01:27,660 --> 01:01:30,360know, I'm a you know, I'm an Aplus student, I tried to check97401:01:30,360 --> 01:01:31,200off as many97501:01:32,160 --> 01:01:35,520this is this is this is somespace age stuff going on here.97601:01:36,960 --> 01:01:42,180People are some bot that can doISOs in real time. All right,97701:01:42,180 --> 01:01:44,970I'm sorry to interrupt. I'm justI'm going nuts. So we got we got97801:01:44,970 --> 01:01:49,020goods being used. We got ISObots, I feel like I'm back in97901:01:49,020 --> 01:01:49,950the stone age.98001:01:51,810 --> 01:01:56,520Your that? I think this may bethe first I think this may be98101:01:56,520 --> 01:02:01,980the first app that uses do it asYeah, its main main index.98201:02:05,790 --> 01:02:10,140Let's see who else is out therethink? Yeah, maybe. I think I98301:02:10,140 --> 01:02:13,110think I know fountain URLs arejust using the podcast index ID.98401:02:14,670 --> 01:02:18,840And a couple other people, pod,pod pod verse and curio caster98501:02:18,930 --> 01:02:23,460and fountain are all using thepodcast index ID. But the GU IDs98601:02:23,460 --> 01:02:25,590sort of came probably after theygot all that set up?98701:02:26,580 --> 01:02:29,250Well, it makes me think that Ineed to, then I need to sort of98801:02:29,520 --> 01:02:34,110prioritize the, you know, aneasier way to resolve it, to98901:02:34,110 --> 01:02:37,680resolve these to read this anopen open way, you know, rather99001:02:37,680 --> 01:02:41,490than forcing everybody to have akey. Because that would probably99101:02:41,490 --> 01:02:44,550be probably be a bit better. Imean, there's just some things99201:02:44,550 --> 01:02:47,850that probably make more sensebeing outside of the API. But99301:02:48,150 --> 01:02:51,030you're, you're, you're wellqualified to do this. I mean,99401:02:51,030 --> 01:02:56,100like you, if people don't know,your background, you. You got99501:02:56,130 --> 01:03:00,090your part, you had an app thatgot bought by pods sites. Yeah,99601:03:00,090 --> 01:03:01,170right. Yeah, that's99701:03:01,170 --> 01:03:04,860how I ended up at Spotify wastwo acquisitions deep in selling99801:03:04,890 --> 01:03:08,730pod dot link to pod sites. Andthen pod sites was acquired by99901:03:09,540 --> 01:03:12,060Spotify. And I went along forthe ride both of those times,100001:03:12,060 --> 01:03:15,240but pod dot Link was trying tosort of solve that problem of100101:03:16,110 --> 01:03:19,260everybody only really wanting topromote one link for their100201:03:19,260 --> 01:03:23,220podcasts not fill a tweet with,you know, five different apps.100301:03:23,250 --> 01:03:26,370And Pocket Casts was my app ofchoice, which had, you know,100401:03:26,400 --> 01:03:29,820around 1% market share, it wasnever going to be anybody's, it100501:03:29,820 --> 01:03:31,770was always gonna get cut out ofthe tweet if they're going to100601:03:31,800 --> 01:03:35,910link to even more than onepodcast app. Right. So I was100701:03:35,910 --> 01:03:38,220just sort of tried to addressthat problem where people say,100801:03:38,220 --> 01:03:41,460find us wherever you downloadpodcasts. And I, you know,100901:03:41,910 --> 01:03:44,160remember reading somebody sayingthat find us, wherever you101001:03:44,160 --> 01:03:47,130download podcasts is, you know,a good is a green flag. It's a101101:03:47,130 --> 01:03:49,470sign of that open ecosystem, butit does make it harder for the101201:03:49,470 --> 01:03:53,520podcaster to motivate a, youknow, slightly curious listener101301:03:53,520 --> 01:03:56,700to go to the trouble of, youknow, okay, how did they spell101401:03:56,730 --> 01:03:59,880that long show name or whatever.So product link was sort of101501:03:59,910 --> 01:04:04,020trying to be that Lincoln biolanding page solution that101601:04:04,170 --> 01:04:07,320automatically linked to Appleand Spotify and Google and101701:04:07,620 --> 01:04:10,530overcast and all of them,because I just looked at the101801:04:10,530 --> 01:04:14,010deterministic nature of how allof them created their URLs and101901:04:14,010 --> 01:04:17,610auto generated pages based onthat. So the podcaster didn't102001:04:17,610 --> 01:04:20,190even have to go and set it up. Alistener could go promote their102101:04:20,190 --> 01:04:24,150favorite show by finding thepublic page for it and sharing102201:04:24,150 --> 01:04:24,750it with friends.102301:04:26,040 --> 01:04:31,680Yeah, this, do you have anyimmediate? Like, what's your102401:04:31,680 --> 01:04:35,070immediate roadmap? So your stintof standards like law is102501:04:35,070 --> 01:04:38,670launched. Now? What do you doyou have like a short term set102601:04:38,670 --> 01:04:41,400of features that you think areare sort of imminent, that102701:04:41,400 --> 01:04:42,750you're going to look at puttingin?102801:04:43,200 --> 01:04:47,490Yeah, so right now, looking atyour own sort of stats package.102901:04:48,180 --> 01:04:52,110We're at 24,000 podcasts withtranscripts, nearly 600,000103001:04:52,110 --> 01:04:56,640episodes of the transcripts.That still is only 0.6% of all103101:04:56,640 --> 01:05:01,440podcasts in the index. So Ireally want to see what I can do103201:05:01,440 --> 01:05:06,210to advocate for more use of thetranscript tag. And and you103301:05:06,210 --> 01:05:08,370know, richer use of thetranscript tag, a number of the103401:05:08,370 --> 01:05:12,030hosts right now are really sortof sort of going to like a103501:05:12,030 --> 01:05:15,870lowest common denominator andsupporting just txt transcripts.103601:05:17,790 --> 01:05:20,820I think on a recent episode,y'all just ran in within grade103701:05:20,820 --> 01:05:24,210into this with rss.com. There isno file upload, you can't upload103801:05:24,210 --> 01:05:26,700an SRT, you can only pastesomething in there. It's coming.103901:05:27,270 --> 01:05:31,380Yeah. Um, but you know,Captivate and transistor, some104001:05:31,380 --> 01:05:33,030of them are, you know, are notreally thinking about104101:05:33,030 --> 01:05:36,810transcripts as like a multiformat thing in the RSS feed.104201:05:36,810 --> 01:05:39,510They're sort of thinking about,well, how does it look on the104301:05:39,510 --> 01:05:43,560landing page for this episode onour own site? More than, you104401:05:43,560 --> 01:05:46,080know, what can I have, you know,making sure that it's a properly104501:05:46,080 --> 01:05:48,780formatted file for other apps todo something interesting with104601:05:48,809 --> 01:05:51,299I'm kind of digging the designchoice you made here on the104701:05:51,299 --> 01:05:55,529transcripts, where the, althoughmy transcript is not well104801:05:55,529 --> 01:05:59,939formatted just one big block oftext. But as you play the104901:05:59,969 --> 01:06:04,439podcast, it's bopping down lineby line highlighting it in a105001:06:04,439 --> 01:06:08,189kind of a yellowish orange. Andthen if you just scroll down,105101:06:08,219 --> 01:06:11,999you click on something the audiojumps to that. That's nice,105201:06:11,999 --> 01:06:14,969ma'am. That's rude. Yeah, andthat's, that's exactly something105301:06:14,969 --> 01:06:17,519you could put on a on a podcastpage.105401:06:18,030 --> 01:06:21,960Ya know, I would love to see awhole bunch of hosts copy this105501:06:21,960 --> 01:06:25,650and add it to their own, youknow, all the other end websites105601:06:25,650 --> 01:06:29,670for their own podcasts. So givethat experience to everybody105701:06:29,670 --> 01:06:31,920on what's the what's the endgoal here, Nathan, you're105801:06:31,920 --> 01:06:34,350obviously cruising on yourSpotify millions. So what are105901:06:34,350 --> 01:06:34,920you going to do with?106001:06:37,260 --> 01:06:40,470I don't know, I don't think Ihave delusions that it's going106101:06:40,470 --> 01:06:43,710to be a competitive podcast app,I haven't invested in making106201:06:43,710 --> 01:06:48,030user accounts or, you know, amobile app or anything like106301:06:48,030 --> 01:06:52,230that. So we'll see. It's mostlytrying to advocate for the106401:06:52,230 --> 01:06:54,420transcript, like furtheradoption of the transcript tag106501:06:54,450 --> 01:06:59,190and think about beyond thetranscript tag, how can we, you106601:06:59,190 --> 01:07:02,760know, bring transcripts to morepodcasts, even if that the106701:07:02,760 --> 01:07:06,090transcript tag is not availableto them. So I've been having106801:07:06,120 --> 01:07:09,390discussions as people trying tofigure out if shows that have106901:07:09,390 --> 01:07:11,760dynamic ad insertion can everadopt transcripts in a107001:07:11,760 --> 01:07:14,550meaningful way. If theirtranscripts don't have107101:07:14,550 --> 01:07:16,830timestamps, then they might aswell just link to it in the107201:07:16,830 --> 01:07:19,530description and not bother withthe transcript tag is, you know,107301:07:19,620 --> 01:07:21,960there's no point in you know,integrating it into the player107401:07:21,960 --> 01:07:26,250if it's equivalent to opening upa web view anyway. If it does107501:07:26,250 --> 01:07:30,630have timestamps, then, you know,all their dynamic adding in107601:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,890their dynamic add ins, injectiontech gets in the way, because107701:07:34,890 --> 01:07:37,170then they don't ever, everguarantee107801:07:37,200 --> 01:07:40,050except Buzzsprout Buzzsproutfigured that out, they figured107901:07:40,500 --> 01:07:41,160out really108001:07:41,160 --> 01:07:44,970once you did their theirBuzzsprout advocates for is the108101:07:44,970 --> 01:07:47,520podcast app, when it downloadsthe episode downloads the108201:07:47,520 --> 01:07:51,930transcript at that point, andnot when the listener goes to108301:07:51,930 --> 01:07:54,000listen to it a second time. Soif the listener goes to listen108401:07:54,000 --> 01:07:57,420to it two weeks later, they'redynamic. And they're dynamic108501:07:57,540 --> 01:08:01,350block has changed in some wayupsetting the timestamps, the108601:08:01,350 --> 01:08:04,170transcript URL will have changedat that point. So they really108701:08:04,170 --> 01:08:06,780want you to just cache thetranscript at time of download.108801:08:07,110 --> 01:08:10,920I tried out this podium page.Have you heard of this podium108901:08:10,920 --> 01:08:15,060pal? Yeah. Which I think is thatthey also have an app, I think,109001:08:15,090 --> 01:08:19,470and yeah, it seems like they'rea company that is using109101:08:19,470 --> 01:08:22,740podcasting to display theirincredible artificial109201:08:22,740 --> 01:08:28,530intelligence prowess. But I did,I did throw a podcast into it109301:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,650into the system. And so I saw itcame back. So it does109401:08:31,650 --> 01:08:35,670transcript, but it also does,chapters. It does, it takes it109501:08:35,670 --> 01:08:38,490makes an attempt. shownotes notbad.109601:08:38,520 --> 01:08:41,040I mean, not great, because I wasvery impressed with the show109701:08:41,040 --> 01:08:42,000notes feature. Yeah,109801:08:42,030 --> 01:08:45,150it's a starting point. And youknow, it has timestamps, and I109901:08:45,150 --> 01:08:49,620mean, I would never use it. Imean, I love human intelligence.110001:08:50,070 --> 01:08:54,630So you know, our chapters like Ilove Dred Scott doing it, but it110101:08:54,630 --> 01:08:58,050was a but even for drab, itmight, it might be a great way110201:08:58,050 --> 01:09:03,960to just get a like a little ideaof okay, here, you know, here's110301:09:03,960 --> 01:09:06,330some things that I that I mightlook out for, because he110401:09:06,330 --> 01:09:09,420basically just listens in realtime. And just, you know, taps110501:09:09,420 --> 01:09:11,220it and says, Okay, here's achapter, here's a chapter,110601:09:11,220 --> 01:09:13,890here's a chapter. But it wasn'thorrible.110701:09:14,340 --> 01:09:16,860Yeah, back to David's pointabout like, you know, feature110801:09:16,860 --> 01:09:19,770development. Whereas featuredevelopment going, I really want110901:09:19,770 --> 01:09:26,340to see the podcast events tag,enable more of a Wikipedia like111001:09:26,340 --> 01:09:30,780experience, where if you want toimprove the transcript, if you111101:09:30,780 --> 01:09:34,470want to improve the chapters, orsuggests something that111201:09:34,530 --> 01:09:38,040listeners have a way tocommunicate that back to the111301:09:38,040 --> 01:09:41,250podcaster, and that the host canmediate that if the host is111401:09:41,250 --> 01:09:43,650managing all the web hooks orsomething like that, and say,111501:09:43,650 --> 01:09:46,140like, Oh, hey, looks like youknow, you left a typo. There's111601:09:46,170 --> 01:09:48,930podcasts I know that have theirtranscripts on GitHub, and I've111701:09:48,930 --> 01:09:52,620totally gone in and, you know,put down a pull request to fix111801:09:52,620 --> 01:09:53,460some things that I saw.111901:09:53,970 --> 01:09:58,590You are an enormous asset topodcasting 2.0 This is112001:09:58,590 --> 01:10:03,780fantastic. You Appreciate that.No. I mean, you are, you're just112101:10:04,080 --> 01:10:06,690developing stuff that you thinkcould be better and can be112201:10:06,690 --> 01:10:09,720implemented and show and leadingby example. I love it. Thank you112301:10:09,720 --> 01:10:12,180so much. It's really it'sawesome that I don't use that112401:10:12,180 --> 01:10:12,900word lightly.112501:10:13,470 --> 01:10:19,380Do you have any sort of gutfeeling as to what has been a112601:10:19,380 --> 01:10:26,340little? Just kind of baffled byhow few podcast apps have put112701:10:26,340 --> 01:10:31,440transcripts into the app? Theyjust it doesn't seem that I'm112801:10:31,440 --> 01:10:34,410not. I'm not gonna say thetrivial, because it's, I mean,112901:10:34,410 --> 01:10:39,930it requires work. But it's alsonot. I mean, it's not like113001:10:39,930 --> 01:10:45,660groundbreaking ly difficult totrack an SRT file. I mean, I'm113101:10:45,660 --> 01:10:47,940just I'm just a little I'm justa little interested in that. I113201:10:47,940 --> 01:10:51,180would. There's so many out therenow, like you said to me,113301:10:51,180 --> 01:10:54,900600,000 episodes with, withtranscripts, it feels the113401:10:54,900 --> 01:10:57,900content is there, I guess Iwould just see, I don't know, do113501:10:57,900 --> 01:10:59,940you? Do you have a feeling as towhy people aren't doing more of113601:10:59,940 --> 01:11:01,650this? Because it's anaccessibility thing. It just113701:11:01,650 --> 01:11:02,730makes so much sense.113801:11:03,720 --> 01:11:07,980I think, like in even just inlaunching it today, I saw people113901:11:07,980 --> 01:11:10,380like, oh, I checked out myfavorite show, and it didn't114001:11:10,380 --> 01:11:14,370have transcripts. And there'snot much I can say to them,114101:11:14,400 --> 01:11:18,840like, well, I don't need to runa whisper server and create a114201:11:18,840 --> 01:11:23,580bunch of, you know, copyright,dubious transcripts that the114301:11:23,580 --> 01:11:26,190podcaster didn't sign off onand, and approve. Is that what114401:11:26,190 --> 01:11:28,500you're asking me to do here? Andthey're like, I guess not. And114501:11:28,500 --> 01:11:32,160you're like, alright, so. Sofrom the point of view of like114601:11:32,160 --> 01:11:36,030delivering a good userexperience to your listeners, if114701:11:36,030 --> 01:11:39,210you're making a podcast app, youknow, I think a lot of people114801:11:39,210 --> 01:11:44,010feel sort of in a bind that theycan't promise transcripts for114901:11:44,010 --> 01:11:48,060everything. And so they're leftsaying like, well, it's kind of115001:11:48,060 --> 01:11:52,050enabled, if you listen to thissubset of shows, and it's the115101:11:52,050 --> 01:11:55,290subset of shows that are notdoing dynamic ad insertion. So115201:11:55,290 --> 01:11:58,890it's not the shows in the top ofthe apple charts. I was like115301:11:58,890 --> 01:12:02,520crawling apples charts to seehow many they had, I think five115401:12:02,520 --> 01:12:07,620real five shows in Apple's top250 have transcripts. And115501:12:07,620 --> 01:12:11,160there's actually probably likefive, and there's five more that115601:12:11,190 --> 01:12:13,290have, they're using thetranscript tag, but it basically115701:12:13,290 --> 01:12:16,920just pasted in their descriptioninto a text file. There's a115801:12:16,920 --> 01:12:19,590couple others that are using itdubiously.115901:12:20,130 --> 01:12:28,770That's to me, okay, so trick,dynamic ad insertion is the way116001:12:28,770 --> 01:12:32,850that it came down the pipe seemsto be responsible for a lot of116101:12:33,240 --> 01:12:38,760the a lot of these sorts ofthings where, oh, we would want116201:12:38,760 --> 01:12:41,130we'd like to do it, but we can'tfigure out how to do it because116301:12:41,130 --> 01:12:45,510there's all this dynamic adinsertion. And to me, this just116401:12:45,510 --> 01:12:50,580seems like an eminently solvableproblem. But if if we if we step116501:12:50,580 --> 01:12:53,910because we already talked to Idon't know, if you were in on116601:12:53,910 --> 01:12:56,460that conversation, Nathan, Ithink he may have been, where,116701:12:56,580 --> 01:13:00,540you know, we sort of had thisback and forth with, with some116801:13:00,540 --> 01:13:04,350various people about how to makethese timestamps line up in a116901:13:04,350 --> 01:13:07,020good way. Because you, yousubmit, the way it seems to be117001:13:07,020 --> 01:13:10,680happening is these these, theaudio gets submitted to sound117101:13:10,680 --> 01:13:15,510stack or some third party adinsertion provider. And then117201:13:15,510 --> 01:13:19,470there's, there's slots that aremarked in the fee in the in the117301:13:19,470 --> 01:13:24,780mp3. And then those those slotsgo in to the mp3 from sound117401:13:24,780 --> 01:13:27,120stack, and then it getsdelivered dynamically back when117501:13:27,120 --> 01:13:32,580you download it. To me, I mean,they're just that those, those117601:13:32,580 --> 01:13:38,250ad slots can come back in asmarkers in the ID three tag,117701:13:38,250 --> 01:13:41,640they can come back in, in adownload in headers in the117801:13:41,640 --> 01:13:45,060download, where now he's like,Okay, well, I've got offsets.117901:13:45,060 --> 01:13:50,010Now, if I just have a list of alist of ad insertion points and118001:13:50,010 --> 01:13:53,400their lengths for thetranscript, I can just go and I118101:13:53,400 --> 01:13:56,190can just know what those offsetsor whatever. To me, just seems118201:13:56,190 --> 01:13:59,550like, this seems like a solvableproblem. To me. That's, that's118301:13:59,550 --> 01:14:03,780not technically challenging. Butfor some reason, it's just like,118401:14:03,990 --> 01:14:07,950we're done with that dai works.I'm just, you know, I'm not118501:14:07,950 --> 01:14:10,650going back there. It's, it'sannoying.118601:14:10,680 --> 01:14:14,700I felt like my first stab atthis problem was looking at how118701:14:14,730 --> 01:14:19,680Marco Arment built forecast. Andin short order mp3 chapters,118801:14:19,680 --> 01:14:23,100were in a lot more apps,including Apple podcasts. And118901:14:23,160 --> 01:14:27,300even I had Spurlock look at whatwas the total adoption of119001:14:27,330 --> 01:14:31,200transcripts or of chapters. Andwhen he first looked at it, it119101:14:31,200 --> 01:14:34,650was something like you know,1.6% or something like that. So119201:14:35,190 --> 01:14:39,120I was thinking okay, there's allthe hosts that haven't adopted119301:14:39,120 --> 01:14:43,800support for the transcript tagyet what if I put the transcript119401:14:43,830 --> 01:14:47,370into the ID three tags so Istarted working on that there's119501:14:47,370 --> 01:14:52,890a ID three marker calledsynchronized lyrics and text119601:14:53,010 --> 01:14:56,010which is perfect for putting youknow timestamps text for really119701:14:56,010 --> 01:14:59,310for like karaoke mode and musicbut perfectly suitable for119801:14:59,310 --> 01:15:03,180putting a whole train scriptinside an mp3 file, very small,119901:15:03,180 --> 01:15:06,330it's just text. It's not likethe people who put a 3000 by120001:15:06,330 --> 01:15:12,7503000 image inside the mp3 fileand was going down that route.120101:15:12,750 --> 01:15:17,370But enough podcast hosts messwith the ID three tags and throw120201:15:17,370 --> 01:15:20,130away anything they don'timmediately see as irrelevant120301:15:20,160 --> 01:15:26,400that that idea sort of died onthe vine. But I think something120401:15:26,400 --> 01:15:28,350that like Dred Scott is sayingin the chat is it might be120501:15:28,350 --> 01:15:30,510helpful if transcripts servedother purposes as well, such as120601:15:30,510 --> 01:15:33,090searchable content on a websiteto, I think really is120701:15:33,090 --> 01:15:36,000transcripts are a means to anend, you have a job to be done,120801:15:36,030 --> 01:15:38,790that is not read the transcript,but your job to be done is120901:15:38,940 --> 01:15:41,970recall a thing that I you know,heard on something that I121001:15:41,970 --> 01:15:45,750listened to this week, or, youknow, bookmark something or make121101:15:45,750 --> 01:15:48,300something, you know, sharesomething more easily. They're121201:15:48,300 --> 01:15:50,760always a means to an end. Andthey sort of need to be121301:15:50,910 --> 01:15:53,700ubiquitous before you can startbuilding the features on top of121401:15:53,700 --> 01:15:53,940them121501:15:54,000 --> 01:15:57,000linking into that, somethingthat I'm seeing a little bit121601:15:57,000 --> 01:16:01,440more of the machine learning AIpeople are showing up on my121701:16:01,440 --> 01:16:05,880doorstep and saying, Hey, can Iget all your transcripts? And I121801:16:05,880 --> 01:16:08,700say, oh, yeah, here's thisdirectory. And it's on an FTP121901:16:08,700 --> 01:16:12,600server, you can anything thisdot SRT is a transcript. And122001:16:13,230 --> 01:16:16,380what I, I think that the whathas not worked very122101:16:16,380 --> 01:16:23,910successfully, is apps using thesearch for the transcripts for122201:16:23,940 --> 01:16:27,060and the main reason it works ischicken in the egg as usual with122301:16:27,060 --> 01:16:31,200the stuff we're doing. So to me,it seems like someone can build122401:16:31,200 --> 01:16:35,130a service that searchestranscripts without you know,122501:16:35,130 --> 01:16:39,330but does it with real machinelearning type stuff. So you can122601:16:39,330 --> 01:16:42,120say I'm looking for somethinglike this instead of, you know,122701:16:42,120 --> 01:16:46,590or I want to hear when currysaid that. And it seems to me122801:16:46,590 --> 01:16:50,550that that would be an incentive.Because one of the thing about122901:16:50,550 --> 01:16:53,460podcasters, we know that theydon't like spending money, but123001:16:53,460 --> 01:16:57,150they also don't want to be leftout of something. So if Oh,123101:16:57,180 --> 01:17:01,560YouTube, I'm on YouTube, oh,it's on AOL, they're back with123201:17:01,590 --> 01:17:04,800with a floppy disk, I'm on thefloppy disk. Doesn't matter. It123301:17:04,800 --> 01:17:08,250doesn't matter podcast want tobe everywhere. And not to have123401:17:08,550 --> 01:17:12,270to have kind of what you'redoing. Honestly, like, okay, you123501:17:12,270 --> 01:17:14,700don't have a transcript, here'show you can get a transcript one123601:17:14,700 --> 01:17:18,750bug, your host, your hostingcompany, too. You could hear123701:17:18,750 --> 01:17:24,060some commercial services,including otter or whatever, or123801:17:24,240 --> 01:17:31,380the even Hindenburg, where youcan use what's the, the do it123901:17:31,380 --> 01:17:36,720yourself package, forget thename, whisper, you know, and124001:17:36,750 --> 01:17:40,470someone build an actual resourcearound that, I think that would124101:17:40,470 --> 01:17:45,870entice podcasters to do that,and not necessarily, because124201:17:45,870 --> 01:17:48,840it's, you know, the biggestproblem of of the transcripts124301:17:48,870 --> 01:17:51,660for me in a way is I likegetting a show out immediately.124401:17:51,930 --> 01:17:55,110And the transcript usually goesup two hours later, because it124501:17:55,110 --> 01:17:59,130just takes that long totranscribe, but having a124601:17:59,130 --> 01:18:03,900resource that could I mean, Ithink there's ways to make that124701:18:04,410 --> 01:18:07,260have money flowing, you know, orvalue for value blocks throw. So124801:18:07,260 --> 01:18:10,110that was a whole bunch of thingsthat could be done. Even124901:18:10,110 --> 01:18:13,500advertising for all I care. Ifwe had a place where that was125001:18:13,500 --> 01:18:16,680actually being done thiseveryone's everyone's got a man,125101:18:16,680 --> 01:18:19,110I'm looking at you comic stripblogger. I mean, there's people125201:18:19,110 --> 01:18:23,640who are doing so much ml AILMNOP, this is a great125301:18:23,640 --> 01:18:26,820opportunity, and you alreadyhave quite a stack. And if125401:18:26,820 --> 01:18:29,880people are searching for topics,and the only thing that that can125501:18:29,880 --> 01:18:33,420show up is podcasts that havetranscripts, I think that would125601:18:33,420 --> 01:18:36,720kick off people being interestedin actually doing it.125701:18:37,650 --> 01:18:41,040Yeah, I definitely want to seethe podcast events tag, enable125801:18:41,040 --> 01:18:44,640people to contribute back, like,Hey, I get random whisper125901:18:44,640 --> 01:18:49,200transcript, you know, asdownloaded and, you know, here,126001:18:49,200 --> 01:18:52,320I'm sending it to your host, youcan read over it and approve it.126101:18:53,100 --> 01:18:55,680So that the podcasters puttingtheir stamp of approval on it126201:18:55,680 --> 01:18:57,660before it, you know, goes out toyour listeners.126301:18:58,050 --> 01:19:01,440That's a cool idea. Because thenyou have people that can begin126401:19:01,440 --> 01:19:05,190it's almost like when you putsomebody Yeah, but but in an126501:19:05,190 --> 01:19:07,680automated way. Like you don'teven have to ask permission. You126601:19:07,680 --> 01:19:10,530just you don't you just do itand then send an event just126701:19:10,530 --> 01:19:11,940like, hey, I did a transcript126801:19:11,970 --> 01:19:15,210that's like this. Drag has beenyou know, he's on his own dime.126901:19:15,210 --> 01:19:18,390He's like, Oh, I'm going backevery single mo facts with Adam127001:19:18,390 --> 01:19:21,780curry episode. I'm runningthrough a transcript. Yeah,127101:19:21,930 --> 01:19:25,950yeah. Yeah. You're right, thatneeds to be an automated127201:19:25,950 --> 01:19:31,920fashion. So it just kind offlows back there. That what is127301:19:31,920 --> 01:19:36,900it? What does that tag called?deep bench tag. Yeah, that spits127401:19:36,900 --> 01:19:40,800back my system somehow knows toreattach it or whatever click127501:19:40,800 --> 01:19:43,710it's now attached to thatpodcast. This is these are127601:19:43,710 --> 01:19:46,440really good ideas. Hello,Spotify.127701:19:48,330 --> 01:19:52,230It just it just feels like Ithink people don't maybe don't127801:19:52,230 --> 01:19:58,140appreciate how difficult it isto do good search on anything on127901:19:58,140 --> 01:20:04,830debt on data like this. So whatI mean is like Google, you say,128001:20:04,830 --> 01:20:07,650Well, Google indexes the entireweb. Yeah. But they have, they128101:20:07,650 --> 01:20:12,390have a clear signal, thePageRank would signal that link128201:20:12,390 --> 01:20:17,700based on incoming links. Thatwas a clear signal, that of128301:20:17,700 --> 01:20:22,350quality, that this this thingrises to the top of the stack.128401:20:22,440 --> 01:20:25,890As you have incoming links,there's no, there's nothing like128501:20:25,890 --> 01:20:32,070that in podcasting. You can'tsay, Okay, this episode is128601:20:32,070 --> 01:20:38,430great, because there's so many,what attached to it, the best128701:20:38,430 --> 01:20:41,280you can do is say, Well, there'sa whole bunch of downloads,128801:20:41,400 --> 01:20:44,010well, guess what, most peopledon't have access to that. The128901:20:44,010 --> 01:20:48,300podcaster themselves have accessto it. And that's it, that129001:20:48,300 --> 01:20:51,960nobody else knows that. Soyou're left within independent,129101:20:51,990 --> 01:20:57,270each independent app knows howmany downloads are in are129201:20:57,270 --> 01:20:59,820happening for each one of thoseshows on their platform,129301:20:59,850 --> 01:21:04,740sometimes, like in the, in thecircumstance of cast ematic.129401:21:05,190 --> 01:21:07,710Franco doesn't know becausethat's all happening on device.129501:21:08,100 --> 01:21:11,910So you just have a whole lot ofunknowns within within part. So129601:21:11,910 --> 01:21:14,910what you're left with really aslike I'm looking through steno.129701:21:16,200 --> 01:21:19,410And I'm going through thesetranscripts, you're left with129801:21:19,650 --> 01:21:25,320just massive amounts of blob,just huge amount. And I'm129901:21:25,320 --> 01:21:28,560talking about this from from asearch ability standpoint, but130001:21:28,560 --> 01:21:32,760you just huge, huge, massiveevent of just words. So you130101:21:32,760 --> 01:21:37,440really have to have somethinglike an A AI type approach in130201:21:37,440 --> 01:21:41,130order to even make anythingmeaningful out of all of this130301:21:41,130 --> 01:21:45,180stuff. Because this would youend up I mean, if you're like130401:21:45,180 --> 01:21:47,220the Brookings Institution, youwant to be the Hans Blix of130501:21:47,220 --> 01:21:51,210podcasting, then you have toreally like, you know, you'd130601:21:51,210 --> 01:21:54,750have to do something like this.Because otherwise you can't,130701:21:54,750 --> 01:21:59,190you're not going to get a Googlesearch of podcasts. It's just130801:21:59,190 --> 01:22:02,160never this is this is theproblem with discoverability.130901:22:02,940 --> 01:22:04,620The problem that, you know,people want better131001:22:04,620 --> 01:22:08,730discoverability and podcasts ina hand and it's never, it's131101:22:08,730 --> 01:22:09,600never gonna be that,131201:22:09,630 --> 01:22:12,990you know, here's an opportunityI'm gonna reach out to SRIDHAR131301:22:12,990 --> 01:22:19,110RAMASWAMY. He's the he was theCEO. He ran Google search131401:22:19,110 --> 01:22:25,110product. And he started Neva ande va.com, which is search engine131501:22:25,110 --> 01:22:28,560without ads that I've been usingfor years, a couple of years131601:22:28,560 --> 01:22:32,670now. And the EO they the minutechat GPT became a thing they131701:22:32,670 --> 01:22:36,060already had, you know, the sameparlor trick on their homepage131801:22:36,060 --> 01:22:39,450actually doing what chat GPTdoes, like, Oh, you want that131901:22:39,450 --> 01:22:42,810your hold our beer? Here you go.They just implemented it. These132001:22:42,810 --> 01:22:45,060are the guys that, you know,that would be perfect for this.132101:22:45,090 --> 01:22:50,130But why wouldn't they have a tabthat says Search podcasts, they132201:22:50,130 --> 01:22:51,180could do all of this.132301:22:52,380 --> 01:22:56,250You're you're not gonna get a,you're not gonna get a ranking132401:22:56,310 --> 01:23:02,580that's ever real in a way ofsort of like popularity, the132501:23:02,580 --> 01:23:07,620best you can do is find you canmined the data for a specific132601:23:07,620 --> 01:23:13,500piece of information, like, Iwant podcasts episodes about a132701:23:13,500 --> 01:23:17,730topic, but you can't you can'tpair that with any sort of132801:23:17,730 --> 01:23:21,240independent thing that says,Okay, now. Now out of all these132901:23:21,240 --> 01:23:26,820results, this is quote unquote,the best one is just unless I'm133001:23:26,820 --> 01:23:28,680missing something, I don't seeany way133101:23:28,710 --> 01:23:31,770you need that feedback loop fromOkay, which one's got clicked133201:23:31,770 --> 01:23:35,070on? Yeah, that's how you getback around to that PageRank133301:23:35,070 --> 01:23:38,880thing. So this is actually, youknow, this is the job to be done133401:23:39,060 --> 01:23:42,840that Dave, you've repeatedlyfailed to articulate when133501:23:43,260 --> 01:23:46,920pattern was snow. Why? Why youwant data from all the different133601:23:46,950 --> 01:23:51,600perhaps why you want popularity?It's really as weights for133701:23:52,320 --> 01:23:55,800things like search. Yeah, thanit is. You heard me?133801:23:56,160 --> 01:24:00,570Yes, yes. Somebody heard me.Yes. You're exactly right. Like,133901:24:01,230 --> 01:24:06,090that's yes. Thank you, Nathan. Ifeel so validated and heard134001:24:06,090 --> 01:24:06,510right now.134101:24:06,720 --> 01:24:08,670Yeah. Another feature idea thatI think can be built on134201:24:08,670 --> 01:24:12,570transcripts is if you are goingto have some sort of like ask me134301:24:12,570 --> 01:24:16,470anything a portion of a show. Ifyou're a longtime listener, and134401:24:16,470 --> 01:24:18,450you hear somebody asked aquestion that's been like, I134501:24:18,450 --> 01:24:21,000know, they've answered thisbefore, it would have been great134601:24:21,030 --> 01:24:23,460in the Ask Me Anything form inthe same way that like, if134701:24:23,460 --> 01:24:25,830you're gonna go submit a newpost on StackOverflow it's like,134801:24:25,860 --> 01:24:28,380oh, by the way, this has alreadybeen asked like, you're writing134901:24:28,380 --> 01:24:31,260up a question right now that youthink is novel, but I promise135001:24:31,260 --> 01:24:33,090you we've actually alreadyaddressed this and you can get135101:24:33,090 --> 01:24:35,280the answer immediately insteadof waiting for the next episode,135201:24:35,550 --> 01:24:39,300and hope that they pick yourquestion. So using transcripts135301:24:39,300 --> 01:24:42,870to enable search just have aspecific show or if you just135401:24:42,870 --> 01:24:45,420want to search things I'velistened to before I think that135501:24:45,420 --> 01:24:49,230is my personal like mostinteresting use that I want to135601:24:49,230 --> 01:24:53,220see built and maybe I have to doit myself but you know, I don't135701:24:53,220 --> 01:24:57,180like limit restrict my search tothings you know, I have listened135801:24:57,180 --> 01:25:00,180to in this app because I'mtrying to recall some thing135901:25:00,180 --> 01:25:03,240right now I'm not trying tolike, oh, what's the world? You136001:25:03,240 --> 01:25:06,420know, I'm curious about sometopic. And I want to know, I'm136101:25:06,420 --> 01:25:09,450just gonna go into the searchbox and hope that I find a host136201:25:09,480 --> 01:25:10,620that knows what they're talkingabout.136301:25:11,490 --> 01:25:13,560That's yeah, that's aninteresting concept sort of like136401:25:13,590 --> 01:25:16,200email at that point. It's like,well, I read this email, but I136501:25:16,200 --> 01:25:18,360know it's in there somewhere.But I don't I don't know which136601:25:18,360 --> 01:25:19,830folder it's in. Oh, sounds136701:25:19,830 --> 01:25:21,360a lot like the freedomcontroller.136801:25:21,960 --> 01:25:26,730It does. I was trying to explainto Alex something about how I136901:25:26,730 --> 01:25:29,640use the framework early theother day, and I was like, yeah,137001:25:29,640 --> 01:25:33,570well do it. Like, I like this.And I'm like, Screw it. It's not137101:25:33,570 --> 01:25:36,570gonna make any sense to anybody.Yeah.137201:25:37,830 --> 01:25:41,610Yeah. I also want to see boostergrams alongside the transcript137301:25:41,610 --> 01:25:45,300at the point when you'd likeusing the timestamp element, not137401:25:45,300 --> 01:25:49,260just you know, nobody is reallyusing the timestamp element in137501:25:49,260 --> 01:25:50,070an interesting way.137601:25:50,100 --> 01:25:52,170Well, the stat and I thinkthat's guys are the stats137701:25:52,170 --> 01:25:55,500package. Just use it, you get agood, nice timeline. And I do137801:25:55,500 --> 01:25:57,660look at I do look at that. Yeah.137901:25:57,810 --> 01:26:03,180But when, when the activity pub,like boost crossover thing that138001:26:03,180 --> 01:26:06,060Dave's working on is out there,I want to you know, display that138101:26:06,060 --> 01:26:09,720to listeners so that they cansee you know, where a boost is138201:26:09,720 --> 01:26:12,450showing up along with theepisode maybe, you know, in a138301:26:12,450 --> 01:26:16,380Google Docs comment styleexperience, where you can spark138401:26:16,380 --> 01:26:19,050a whole conversation thread offof, you know, an initial booster138501:26:19,050 --> 01:26:21,450gram, something like that. So Ithink there's plenty of new138601:26:21,450 --> 01:26:23,580features to build in the spacecouldn't138701:26:23,580 --> 01:26:26,550you? Couldn't you take a 1%could not add you as a split138801:26:26,580 --> 01:26:29,820into Yeah, or episode in the newsee, because then you'd get the138901:26:29,820 --> 01:26:32,400boost. And you would see thetimestamp and you just bid and139001:26:32,400 --> 01:26:33,840you'd be able to mark mark it139101:26:33,900 --> 01:26:38,310my favorite way of addingservices to podcasts. Just139201:26:38,790 --> 01:26:40,800do that just as well. You willyou start taking139301:26:40,800 --> 01:26:45,060splits. I've designed my ownbooster Graham interface. And139401:26:46,860 --> 01:26:49,890we'll see. We'll see when I willsee where that gets right now139501:26:49,890 --> 01:26:53,400I'm, I'm I got more time on myhands to work on steno for now.139601:26:53,430 --> 01:26:53,850We'll see.139701:26:54,000 --> 01:26:57,390By the way day, we need to thanksome people I think for the139801:26:57,420 --> 01:27:01,260podcast index.org website, whichwas recently upgraded with139901:27:02,160 --> 01:27:04,890Yes, and Nathan is part of thatball.140001:27:04,920 --> 01:27:08,130So explain explain what we'vedone here because it's140101:27:08,130 --> 01:27:09,630beautiful. Alright,140201:27:10,410 --> 01:27:13,380play along at home. Everybodygot a podcast? index.org and140301:27:13,380 --> 01:27:14,430Nathan will tell you whathappened.140401:27:15,269 --> 01:27:21,089Yeah, so you we added cross appcomments. I wrote down the140501:27:21,089 --> 01:27:29,819pronunciation of gear gillerman.Yamo. I don't know at the end of140601:27:29,819 --> 01:27:30,659the name. Yeah.140701:27:32,010 --> 01:27:36,630Go there. ngModel. Augustine.The front pod station puts it on140801:27:36,630 --> 01:27:36,990dude,140901:27:37,290 --> 01:27:39,480pod Dev. He141001:27:39,480 --> 01:27:42,510did the vast majority of thework and I just contributed some141101:27:43,380 --> 01:27:48,330design help and some front endcode. But we made a view only141201:27:48,750 --> 01:27:53,070cross app comments experience onthe podcast index website. So if141301:27:53,070 --> 01:27:58,380you go to podcasting 2.0 scrolldown, you know, find an episode141401:27:58,410 --> 01:28:03,270and hit show comments. We useJohn Spurlock's thread cap141501:28:03,270 --> 01:28:09,060library to pull in all the stuffattached to the root post on141601:28:09,060 --> 01:28:09,540this episode.141701:28:09,570 --> 01:28:12,390Now, how do I how do I get tohow do we get to actually141801:28:12,390 --> 01:28:14,220responding from141901:28:14,850 --> 01:28:18,000nerves? Never. That's never onthe line? Well, that's down the142001:28:18,000 --> 01:28:21,570line that that's that's gottabecause, yeah, that's when you142101:28:21,570 --> 01:28:26,910do. I mean, the thing we came upwith recently is Oh, off, you142201:28:26,910 --> 01:28:30,180know, off to a mastodon server,and then, but that, I mean,142301:28:30,180 --> 01:28:35,280that's like step two, you know,to me, the so this sparked a lot142401:28:35,280 --> 01:28:40,860of, you know, predictable debateabout content moderation. I142501:28:40,860 --> 01:28:44,790guess I want to just justcomment on that for a second.142601:28:45,600 --> 01:28:49,200This to me the most importantthing about this whole page and142701:28:49,200 --> 01:28:55,320the way this is done, and kudosto to you or gillerman that that142801:28:55,320 --> 01:29:00,600did this is the show Commentsbutton. The comments don't show142901:29:00,600 --> 01:29:06,060unless you go and ask for them.To me, that's critical. Because143001:29:06,240 --> 01:29:10,800otherwise you're you're just atthe mercy of the of the moms is143101:29:11,490 --> 01:29:14,340also how YouTube does it. Youhave to click to get comments.143201:29:15,089 --> 01:29:17,969Yeah, and I think that's, Ithink that's critically143301:29:17,969 --> 01:29:24,539important because it takes 90%of the of the worry of I don't143401:29:24,539 --> 01:29:29,609want this stuff. I don't want Xthing X and comment associated143501:29:29,609 --> 01:29:34,559with my content. You know, thatwhen you have hide it behind a143601:29:34,559 --> 01:29:39,119user action, the same way thatMastodon does with a no content143701:29:39,119 --> 01:29:44,459warning that you're right. Okay,you were warned. You and you did143801:29:44,459 --> 01:29:47,309it anyway. So I mean, you'reyou're kind of you kind of know,143901:29:47,489 --> 01:29:53,999it, it, it sort of in a real wayputs the expectation of, of144001:29:53,999 --> 01:30:00,149policing the user's eyeballsonto the user and not on to To144101:30:00,149 --> 01:30:05,579the Creator. I don't know, maybemaybe I just feel like it's144201:30:05,579 --> 01:30:08,489important is an important pieceof the discussion. Because I144301:30:08,489 --> 01:30:12,899don't know that wherever, what,what people started talking144401:30:12,899 --> 01:30:19,589about, you know, or is, youknow, I don't want one comment144501:30:19,619 --> 01:30:22,919out of all this stuff to notshow up if it was like it had144601:30:22,919 --> 01:30:26,369something, profanity in it orsomething like that. I just144701:30:26,369 --> 01:30:29,399don't, that's just not the waythat's not the way that Mastodon144801:30:29,399 --> 01:30:32,909or activity Pub is just not likethat, you'll never you will144901:30:32,909 --> 01:30:39,869never have that level ofcontrol. There may be there may145001:30:39,869 --> 01:30:46,409be this, excuse me, let merephrase that. It may be that,145101:30:46,919 --> 01:30:51,689for reasons of that are peculiarto Mastodon or certain145201:30:51,689 --> 01:30:56,819activitypub implementations,that when you retrieve a thread145301:30:56,819 --> 01:31:02,039of comments, like Nathan said,when, when the when thread cap145401:31:02,069 --> 01:31:06,359asks for the root post, and allthe posts that comes with it, it145501:31:06,479 --> 01:31:12,719it might be that just by avagary of the way that Mastodon145601:31:12,719 --> 01:31:16,649does things, that you thatsometimes you could get rid of145701:31:16,649 --> 01:31:22,019one of those comments withhiding it or muting or something145801:31:22,019 --> 01:31:25,739like that. I don't know. We Idon't think we know for sure145901:31:25,739 --> 01:31:31,379yet. It but it might be that.But that's a different thing.146001:31:31,409 --> 01:31:34,139That should not set theexpectation that that's always146101:31:34,139 --> 01:31:38,429possible across all of activity,public permutations. Because I146201:31:38,429 --> 01:31:42,119guarantee you, I don't thinkthat's part of the spec. And I146301:31:42,119 --> 01:31:44,429guarantee you that there aregoing to be implementations of146401:31:44,429 --> 01:31:49,169activity pub, that do not honorthat sort of thing. They're just146501:31:49,169 --> 01:31:52,109going to show you everythingthat they know about whether146601:31:52,109 --> 01:31:55,229it's been deleted, or any ofthat is that you're feeling as146701:31:55,229 --> 01:31:55,799well, Nathan,146801:31:56,820 --> 01:32:02,460I think the podcaster is optingin to the set of moderation146901:32:02,460 --> 01:32:06,360controls they want by what routeposts, they put in the URL. So147001:32:06,570 --> 01:32:11,010if they want to host their ownsituation, host their own147101:32:11,010 --> 01:32:14,610activity pub server, where theyhave full control over what147201:32:14,610 --> 01:32:17,550replays are visible, they can,you know, go that far. And if147301:32:17,760 --> 01:32:21,510they want to just put a link toa podcast index, not social147401:32:21,510 --> 01:32:23,970thing, they're leaving it up toyou, all right. So they are147501:32:23,970 --> 01:32:28,440choosing their own moderationcontrols. Based on you know, at147601:32:28,440 --> 01:32:31,470that point when they decide theroute post, and that's the,147701:32:31,500 --> 01:32:34,410that's the moment when they havecontrol to decide how much147801:32:34,410 --> 01:32:38,280moderation they want. Anythinglike after that point is, you147901:32:38,280 --> 01:32:42,150know, if you're trying to, youknow, ask other people's service148001:32:42,150 --> 01:32:45,060to be managed, the way you wantit to be managed than just run148101:32:45,060 --> 01:32:49,320your own service. And, you know,different people can provide148201:32:49,530 --> 01:32:52,500activity, both servers that suityour own tastes for moderation.148301:32:53,670 --> 01:32:56,040Yeah, I think that's the bestyou can hope for. I just think148401:32:56,040 --> 01:32:58,770it's a different. It's adifferent world and you can't,148501:32:59,070 --> 01:33:02,580this new world of Mastodon whereeverybody left, everybody left148601:33:02,580 --> 01:33:06,750the centralized thing of Twitterand they hated it. They had you148701:33:06,870 --> 01:33:11,280they just absolutely despisedit. But and it had all the148801:33:11,280 --> 01:33:13,860moderate it had all themoderation tools there. But it148901:33:13,860 --> 01:33:18,570but they hated it. And they wentto Mastodon and the, the149001:33:18,570 --> 01:33:22,620mastodon universe is such thatif somebody comments on your149101:33:22,620 --> 01:33:28,290post, and their server is notblocked, you're gonna see it,149201:33:28,500 --> 01:33:30,630you're just gonna see it, that'sjust the way that it goes. And149301:33:30,630 --> 01:33:35,160so I mean, if really, it's just,I hate this is the bomb, you149401:33:35,160 --> 01:33:39,000know, we talked about, you know,to get to nuclear subs, you had149501:33:39,000 --> 01:33:42,660to go through the you had toblow shit up. But this is the149601:33:42,660 --> 01:33:46,980bomb Gehrman Gehrman. AndNathan, they invented the bomb.149701:33:47,220 --> 01:33:52,620Now. Now we have to, you know,down the line, step two, step149801:33:52,620 --> 01:33:55,530three, where as we're going downthe line, and then then we get149901:33:55,530 --> 01:33:59,280to nuclear subs and you know, inthe in the stuff that actually150001:33:59,280 --> 01:34:02,250is useful for society. But thisstuff right here, this is just150101:34:02,250 --> 01:34:05,400step this is step one, and Idon't know that. I don't know150201:34:05,400 --> 01:34:08,310that we're at the point yet,where control is the proper150301:34:08,310 --> 01:34:09,540discussion, maybe that's going150401:34:09,570 --> 01:34:15,150well, but this is very typicalin podcasting land, where, since150501:34:15,180 --> 01:34:19,500we didn't have both sides of theequation with hosts and apps,150601:34:19,920 --> 01:34:23,340people just throw up roadblocksall the time on Slack channels,150701:34:23,370 --> 01:34:27,390and then nothing got anywhere.And so now we have running with150801:34:27,390 --> 01:34:30,150scissors. That's how you getstuff done.150901:34:31,680 --> 01:34:37,980Yeah, yeah, no, I think I mean,I think the this additional151001:34:37,980 --> 01:34:40,680thing, there's a way there'sjust not a way at this point in151101:34:40,680 --> 01:34:45,450time to be sure that anyspecific sort of moderation is151201:34:45,510 --> 01:34:47,670gonna happen. I think that Ithink that just that idea needs151301:34:47,670 --> 01:34:51,030to be left no off the table forthe time being, you know, down151401:34:51,030 --> 01:34:55,200the road, we'll see. But I mean,as far as interest, just151501:34:55,200 --> 01:35:00,660generally speaking, the websiteis beautiful. I mean, Dark mode.151601:35:01,260 --> 01:35:05,520We know with dark mode. I mean,like, it's fantastic. The dark151701:35:05,520 --> 01:35:10,560mode is fantastic. The commentsare fantastic. I think somebody151801:35:10,560 --> 01:35:14,490was I think Guillermo was sayingthat he's also working on, on151901:35:14,490 --> 01:35:16,650performance, like to get thecomments to load a little bit152001:35:16,650 --> 01:35:19,110faster, because there is a delaythere.152101:35:19,260 --> 01:35:22,800Or maybe give me a littlespinning wheel. Oh, yes. A152201:35:22,800 --> 01:35:23,400little a little a152301:35:23,490 --> 01:35:26,190little spinny. Yeah, yeah,that's already that's, that's a152401:35:26,190 --> 01:35:29,220UI decision. That's next NathanLucia. Talk to him about that.152501:35:30,510 --> 01:35:31,320Shall we? Yeah, he152601:35:31,320 --> 01:35:31,980has a little spinner.152701:35:32,190 --> 01:35:35,490Shall we thank a couple people.I'm sorry to say I just have a152801:35:35,490 --> 01:35:36,450hard doubt coming up.152901:35:37,890 --> 01:35:40,020You're not sorry to say that youlike saying the MO Horta.153001:35:40,050 --> 01:35:42,930I love saying it. I hate peoplewho say that I'm kind of hard153101:35:42,930 --> 01:35:45,030out before the meeting. I'msorry, I have a hard out. Well,153201:35:45,030 --> 01:35:47,100why don't you go fuck yourselfthat you don't have the meeting153301:35:47,100 --> 01:35:52,440with me. So, so it's nice. I'mhappy to say it once. By the way153401:35:52,440 --> 01:35:58,440want to make note that we nowhave 12,044 feeds with value153501:35:58,440 --> 01:36:05,130blocks in the index is crankinglike at at almost eight 910 x153601:36:05,130 --> 01:36:09,240what it used to do, we'd have acouple a day now we're talking153701:36:09,240 --> 01:36:16,2603040 a day. And I'm not exactlysure why. Other than we just153801:36:16,260 --> 01:36:19,680rock, but I'm not sure. It'snot. There's no other153901:36:19,680 --> 01:36:23,070explanation that we're seeing itin transactions on the index as154001:36:23,070 --> 01:36:26,610well. It's it's up. We'retrending. We're trending up.154101:36:26,610 --> 01:36:28,020It's it's very exciting.154201:36:28,680 --> 01:36:34,260Very exciting. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.When thanks me, was that. That's154301:36:34,260 --> 01:36:35,100it. We were gonna thank somepeople.154401:36:35,130 --> 01:36:38,340Oh, yeah. Okay, let me let meget the booster grams that have154501:36:38,340 --> 01:36:42,450come in so far, because peopleare always boosting live. We154601:36:42,450 --> 01:36:46,530have Todd Cochran. Now who wasboosted multiple times 25,000154701:36:46,530 --> 01:36:49,260isaps. Here this challengeimproved. And he would know, the154801:36:49,260 --> 01:36:52,110challenge of programmatic ads isthat the ad fill rate is about154901:36:52,110 --> 01:36:55,80080% and changes by the second sothe transcript offset signal155001:36:56,010 --> 01:36:58,380would be from Download todownload and needs to be in the155101:36:58,380 --> 01:37:01,770download metadata to signal theoffset. We've been working with155201:37:01,770 --> 01:37:04,440our ad delivery partner to havea solution. I have a solution.155301:37:04,530 --> 01:37:07,350Cool. I'm glad because right onit. Yeah. Oh, you can use my155401:37:07,350 --> 01:37:13,740solution. Just get rid of it.Like Sockeye the horse 1000 SATs155501:37:13,740 --> 01:37:18,420Thank you, Eric P P. 33,333.There's Todd Cochran again155601:37:19,470 --> 01:37:22,620100,000 Satoshis Bala155701:37:22,680 --> 01:37:26,430Sakala 20 is Blaze on the Impala155801:37:26,460 --> 01:37:29,850I've been adding liquidity to mypersonal lightning node ugh such155901:37:29,850 --> 01:37:32,700a pain in the ass with channelsso much fun lol but thank156001:37:32,700 --> 01:37:35,850goodness Albion pod versefountain etc making this easy go156101:37:35,850 --> 01:37:41,160podcasting. You know, I heardTodd talking about that. Yeah,156201:37:41,370 --> 01:37:45,750I'm doing stuff with liquidity.I'm like no, stay away. Don't do156301:37:45,750 --> 01:37:50,970it. Stop it. Stop Todd stop.It's a hole. You do not want to156401:37:50,970 --> 01:37:54,600go down there you don't I'm justsaying I love brother. I love156501:37:54,990 --> 01:37:57,390it let's there Spencer. Just geton with such bizarre let him do156601:37:57,390 --> 01:37:58,740a ring of fire with you andyou'll be done.156701:37:59,580 --> 01:38:06,000Ring of Fire 6666 from blueberrymainstream conspiracy podcast156801:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,670and bitching about suppressionon Spotify go together like156901:38:08,670 --> 01:38:12,150peanut butter and spoiled Mayofor the love of all good things157001:38:12,150 --> 01:38:15,690and natural make it stop? I haveno idea what he's talking about.157101:38:15,780 --> 01:38:16,740I had no idea either.157201:38:17,760 --> 01:38:25,140Sir lurks a lot. With a superleaps will 13,370 Lalala lit157301:38:25,140 --> 01:38:30,600boost Thank you very much.Steven Be a satchel Richards157401:38:30,690 --> 01:38:36,27011,111 Shameless plug music sideproject.com is now live listen157501:38:36,270 --> 01:38:39,900to and boost your favorite RSSmusic feeds. I'm also working on157601:38:39,900 --> 01:38:45,390an MSP studio, MSP MicrosoftProject managed service provider157701:38:45,420 --> 01:38:48,240I don't know, which will be asimplified version of sovereign157801:38:48,240 --> 01:38:52,890feeds. Oh, oh, a music serviceprovider studio. I missed it.157901:38:52,890 --> 01:38:56,940What is MSP? What does MSP standfor? Which will be a simplified158001:38:56,940 --> 01:39:00,510version of sovereign feeds whichI use focused on making a music158101:39:00,510 --> 01:39:04,860feed Oh decentralized music forthe win. No music side projects158201:39:04,860 --> 01:39:10,920studio da MSD Yeah. Oh. We got adrip Scott. There were the158301:39:10,920 --> 01:39:18,360333,333 we thanked him for that.Blueberry was in early listening158401:39:18,360 --> 01:39:21,420to some of the we were playingwe always start off when we when158501:39:21,420 --> 01:39:24,660we hit the lip about 1015minutes before we before we158601:39:24,660 --> 01:39:29,580start with 100 Personal retrosing along and he was boosting158701:39:29,580 --> 01:39:34,170along a boost along to Shakiraand he boosted oh baby when you158801:39:34,170 --> 01:39:37,830boost like that nice 13,369158901:39:38,490 --> 01:39:40,200Blueberry here's secure fan.159001:39:41,040 --> 01:39:47,820Beautiful. Let me see. Pfeiffer3800 breezes stubbornly refusing159101:39:47,820 --> 01:39:50,940to refill my curio caster walletboosting remaining balance go159201:39:50,940 --> 01:39:58,290podcasting Dobby does who Iheard on he's our says blue.com159301:39:58,290 --> 01:40:03,180Right you A very interesting guydoing is starting off from159401:40:03,180 --> 01:40:07,110scratch with a hosting companyall to point out love at 25,000159501:40:07,110 --> 01:40:11,010SATs Thank you. And there'sMartin Linda's code with a nice159601:40:11,010 --> 01:40:17,640row of ducks. 22,222 He says hesays I wonder if Apple podcasts159701:40:17,640 --> 01:40:20,850app is searchable for the ducksin the row. I doubt it. I've159801:40:20,850 --> 01:40:25,500added chapters with my imagesthat my co host Karina Rubinius159901:40:25,710 --> 01:40:29,010has created in Canva by usevisit RFM studio to add the160001:40:29,010 --> 01:40:31,140images could it be thatcaptivate is not supporting160101:40:31,140 --> 01:40:39,030chapters yet? I don't know. Idon't know. And then I think SLC160201:40:39,030 --> 01:40:42,840no that's for no agenda. I thinkthat's it. The rest would be on160301:40:42,840 --> 01:40:44,700your output of the booster gramsDave.160401:40:45,480 --> 01:40:48,660Oh, yes, we have no PayPalsthere's no weekly session160501:40:48,660 --> 01:40:50,400complete. It's done.160601:40:50,730 --> 01:40:58,170Overnight. Hold on here to hereit is me now. Yeah. Nice. I like160701:40:58,170 --> 01:40:58,410it.160801:40:59,220 --> 01:41:03,120Real Estate's from Joel wo 1111.No Nope through fountain and we160901:41:03,120 --> 01:41:08,460get a Hardhead one a 101 binaryboost through curio caster note161001:41:08,460 --> 01:41:14,400from hard hat Thank you hard hat438 SATs for Sir Michael's low161101:41:14,400 --> 01:41:17,130bid at those good No. Hey Dave,would you please approve my pull161201:41:17,130 --> 01:41:20,310request Okay, thanks bye. Yes,I'm just always161301:41:20,340 --> 01:41:23,250that's always a weird thing forguys to say to each other just161401:41:25,260 --> 01:41:36,630approve of it. Copy 1980 40,000sets through fountain This is161501:41:36,630 --> 01:41:37,530100%161601:41:37,560 --> 01:41:39,870No, no, no, no, no, no, no.161701:41:40,830 --> 01:41:44,190No what I think you mean RP ispainstakingly161801:41:44,250 --> 01:41:49,110or I say five by five is my new105 by five five by five161901:41:49,710 --> 01:41:56,100in the pipe in the Satoshistream 5552 through fountain it162001:41:56,100 --> 01:41:59,760says 25 years of XML and he hasa link to the RFC for a162101:42:00,690 --> 01:42:03,720nice happy birthday. XML wasright yes,162201:42:03,780 --> 01:42:08,070Satoshi Strange is really firedup about XML chat F 1000 SATs162301:42:08,070 --> 01:42:11,250through pod verse he says testboost from the Orion browser on162401:42:11,250 --> 01:42:14,070iOS using pod verse.fm and thelb extension.162501:42:14,730 --> 01:42:19,200Wow. Oh, that's right. You canrun you can run the extensions162601:42:19,200 --> 01:42:21,060in the Orion browser. That'sright.162701:42:21,630 --> 01:42:26,820Chad F is doing the is doing theAES the official bookkeeper now162801:42:26,820 --> 01:42:30,270off the bucket of I guessing2.0. And going back and doing162901:42:30,300 --> 01:42:33,270every accounting on every singleepisode. I'm163001:42:33,270 --> 01:42:36,210not sure exactly what the pointis. But it's interesting. It163101:42:36,210 --> 01:42:38,670shows the value for value works.That's for sure.163201:42:39,599 --> 01:42:43,109Yeah, when we will. When youwhen you go when you're done,163301:42:43,109 --> 01:42:45,419send it to us or send it to CPAfor taxes.163401:42:45,450 --> 01:42:48,660Yeah, I want to can you do it inQuickBooks,163501:42:49,170 --> 01:42:56,400QuickBooks? korkin send us10,000 sets through Felty says163601:42:56,400 --> 01:42:59,070thanks, guys. Keep up theawesome work. wishing there was163701:42:59,070 --> 01:43:01,680an easy way to get normallylisteners converted to vie for V163801:43:01,680 --> 01:43:05,160and BTC. But it seems they stillwant to default to Pay Pal and163901:43:05,160 --> 01:43:08,400cookbooks. Hard to break throughthe years of bad education and164001:43:08,460 --> 01:43:10,080government money propaganda.164101:43:10,110 --> 01:43:14,820It is indeed very difficult. Butif you keep at it, and you don't164201:43:14,820 --> 01:43:17,940give the easy way out, whichcreated the keeper has done164301:43:17,940 --> 01:43:22,740which really been very hard.Most people just turns out love164401:43:22,740 --> 01:43:25,710to just click on the link whenyou tweet it out. I just164501:43:25,710 --> 01:43:29,310listened to the browser. Sowe've actively actively said164601:43:29,310 --> 01:43:34,920please do this, get the get thewe promote a different value for164701:43:34,920 --> 01:43:39,810value app each time. And theonly the ones that do refills in164801:43:39,810 --> 01:43:44,760the app. It's hard is very hardto start with any listener group164901:43:44,760 --> 01:43:48,270who are not already clued in,but it's well worth it because165001:43:48,300 --> 01:43:50,520people when it comes throughwhen you read their booster165101:43:50,520 --> 01:43:54,210gram, everyone's kind of jazzedit's a good feeling. It's worth165201:43:54,240 --> 01:43:55,770it's worth hanging in there.165301:43:56,850 --> 01:44:00,810Dave Jackson 10,000 SAS Hall ofFamer do fountain net. I165401:44:00,810 --> 01:44:04,680remember Lilian acts on theball. Love them. Play. Cool165501:44:04,680 --> 01:44:07,680played the day that I met youfor the keeper. You'll thank me165601:44:07,680 --> 01:44:08,010later.165701:44:08,040 --> 01:44:14,640I did. I did. And you know what,Dave? Thank you. You get a hard165801:44:14,640 --> 01:44:17,130out. Very hard out on that one.165901:44:18,540 --> 01:44:19,680Go prove your pull request.166001:44:22,170 --> 01:44:23,670You want to go into one step toofar.166101:44:24,000 --> 01:44:27,240And we have had the horse haddid it to me. It's his fault.166201:44:27,420 --> 01:44:30,930Mere Mortals podcast 8008. Bootdonation through fountain he166301:44:30,930 --> 01:44:34,500says, Oh, I know how to explainthe split. Simply imagine there166401:44:34,500 --> 01:44:37,620are eight and a half people andwe want to evenly split the SATs166501:44:37,620 --> 01:44:40,560according to the ratio of theirgood mic technique divided by166601:44:40,560 --> 01:44:43,320the square root of their fillerwords. If we assume an166701:44:43,320 --> 01:44:46,380exponential Keynesian model,there's infinite incoming step166801:44:46,410 --> 01:44:49,530sets. Knowing this each personwill receive a percentage that166901:44:49,530 --> 01:44:56,940adds up to 100 Wait, what? Okay,wow, yeah, baby. It's 37 ad from167001:44:56,940 --> 01:45:00,270anonymous to get automatic. No,nope. I think give167101:45:02,340 --> 01:45:05,160notice to cast ematic getting alittle more action lately.167201:45:05,700 --> 01:45:10,770I have yeah yeah it's come it'scoming up if people haven't167301:45:10,770 --> 01:45:14,760tried if you're on an iPhone youhaven't tried cast Matic if you167401:45:14,760 --> 01:45:18,840haven't tried to send a boosteraway it's I would recommend it167501:45:18,840 --> 01:45:22,950like go do a boosted cast ematicand look at the way Franco if167601:45:22,950 --> 01:45:27,990there's a problem and one of thesplits Fails of the screen that167701:45:27,990 --> 01:45:31,920comes up it's really cool I meanyou can see exactly what's going167801:45:31,920 --> 01:45:35,220on like it's He's done a lot. Hejust keeps doing a lot of work167901:45:35,220 --> 01:45:38,970there and he just never He nevertells anybody what he's doing it168001:45:38,970 --> 01:45:41,280just keeps getting bettersilently under the covers like168101:45:41,280 --> 01:45:43,560all of a sudden I just noticednew things pop up all the time168201:45:43,560 --> 01:45:49,020so cool. Good app. Yeah. I'mrobot 8008 The Fountain he says168301:45:49,050 --> 01:45:52,950shout out craps crippled apps gopodcast crap.168401:45:54,810 --> 01:45:55,620Got about that.168501:45:57,060 --> 01:46:01,200SLC 7777 striper boost throughfountain he says casting off the168601:46:01,200 --> 01:46:06,900God of Mammon with podcastingturbo boost Oh yeah. Boost some168701:46:06,900 --> 01:46:11,940quack 111 says I love this show.Do my low set boost also cost168801:46:11,940 --> 01:46:15,750you money will save and boostbigger if rare and so okay.168901:46:16,980 --> 01:46:19,890Just boost bigger all the time.Boost boost boost169001:46:19,920 --> 01:46:20,220almost169101:46:20,429 --> 01:46:24,119always the answer? Yeah. MereMortals podcast row does 2222169201:46:24,119 --> 01:46:26,879through fat and he says somequack asked an important169301:46:26,879 --> 01:46:29,669question. But it was beneath thecut off. So I just wanted to169401:46:29,669 --> 01:46:33,629make sure it got read. To quote.Love this show. Demopolis Okay,169501:46:33,869 --> 01:46:38,399I will save up and boost bigger.Wait, what? This must be on the169601:46:38,429 --> 01:46:41,789quote. This must be on thecomments on fountain. That must169701:46:41,789 --> 01:46:44,399be where this stuff ishappening. Oh, okay. That went169801:46:44,399 --> 01:46:48,269through me for a loop. Oh, yes.Comment? Yeah. Okay. See? Oh,169901:46:48,269 --> 01:46:51,029okay. So that was his way ofboosting his comments so that it170001:46:51,029 --> 01:46:54,989would come through and I wouldread it. Oh, interesting. Okay.170101:46:55,319 --> 01:46:59,9995000 SATs there from anonymouson pod version of note 25,000170201:46:59,999 --> 01:47:02,879SATs from Borlaug through podverse and he says just wanted to170301:47:02,879 --> 01:47:06,089send my gratitude completelyenninful For what the two of you170401:47:06,089 --> 01:47:09,899are doing well. Thank you Borlaappreciate it. Sir Brian of170501:47:09,899 --> 01:47:13,889London 169,000 SATs indexwebsite170601:47:13,920 --> 01:47:15,420Wow.170701:47:15,630 --> 01:47:19,680Sakala 20 is Blaze only Impala.170801:47:20,640 --> 01:47:23,280Whilst my new recurring donationsystem via hive is in170901:47:23,280 --> 01:47:25,650development, I'll send myketchup boost this way via the171001:47:25,650 --> 01:47:29,610POS. Mr. Nice IV sir, thank you,Brian. appreciate them recognize171101:47:30,990 --> 01:47:35,520the same Oscar Mary 30 3015Howdy David Adam Oscar busco on171201:47:35,520 --> 01:47:38,340behalf of Mr. BlogHer as a testto make sure all the splits are171301:47:38,340 --> 01:47:38,760green.171401:47:40,650 --> 01:47:44,040He is our canary in the coalmine doesn't work happy app not171501:47:44,040 --> 01:47:44,580working.171601:47:45,090 --> 01:47:51,840Fe happy he's like his commentthat Yoda was wrong there is try171701:47:54,900 --> 01:47:57,930tone wrecker one on one on onethe binary boost the pod verse171801:47:57,930 --> 01:48:02,370he says something new to testmusic side project.com thank you171901:48:02,370 --> 01:48:05,460Steven V. Always the king of theyes172001:48:05,460 --> 01:48:07,470yes, Doc king of the iKOU172101:48:08,490 --> 01:48:13,290record one Oh Big Dig satchelRichards 11 111 through fountain172201:48:13,290 --> 01:48:17,640he says wave lake.com helpsnearly 100 artists sharing their172301:48:17,640 --> 01:48:18,150music.172401:48:19,980 --> 01:48:23,400They have 100 100 artists on theput I've been put into the172501:48:23,400 --> 01:48:25,440index. Is that how I interpretthat?172601:48:25,830 --> 01:48:33,690I don't know. I don't know. Oh,see? Or say well, let's come172701:48:33,690 --> 01:48:38,160back to that later. Let's seethem. 22 to 22 they're found he172801:48:38,160 --> 01:48:40,950says I wonder if Apple podcastsapp is searching for the ducks172901:48:40,980 --> 01:48:44,070in the row you already read thatis did you already read that?173001:48:44,430 --> 01:48:45,810That came in just a second ago?173101:48:45,840 --> 01:48:48,270Yes. Yes. We've been throughthat one Well, where's comments173201:48:48,270 --> 01:48:50,610or Blogger? Was he the was thatthe delimiter? No.173301:48:50,670 --> 01:48:54,030Did you read Dobby? Das is 25though yes I do. Okay, all173401:48:54,030 --> 01:48:58,320right. So I hit the bottombottom of your rock by hit173501:48:58,320 --> 01:49:02,010bottom comic strip blogger30 3015 through fountain and he173601:49:02,010 --> 01:49:06,690says Adam and Dave I priests atop the black box Mystery School173701:49:06,690 --> 01:49:10,380of the podcast pyramid. Pleaseaccepted this offering of sets173801:49:10,590 --> 01:49:14,400as our initiation fee istectonic plates of ingenuity173901:49:14,400 --> 01:49:17,730continue to shift. We beseechthe boardrooms, attendees to174001:49:17,730 --> 01:49:20,760reconcile the colliding ofmanufactured sentience and free174101:49:20,760 --> 01:49:25,590speech by downloading the AI doccooking podcast. Read by TV show174201:49:25,590 --> 01:49:29,490deviser Gregory Forman yo CSBsecond try174301:49:31,530 --> 01:49:34,740thank you so USB and we had alate comer hear from someone174401:49:34,740 --> 01:49:41,610named Hal was write a short rowof of sticks 1111 I saw the live174501:49:41,610 --> 01:49:44,940tag on pod bursts felt compelledto boost see how that works.174601:49:45,570 --> 01:49:49,200Yet, just the life of them hitjust the life tag at dopamine174701:49:49,200 --> 01:49:52,950hit exactly. All right, we haveany monthlies to account174801:49:52,950 --> 01:49:57,930for we do we get to your killerat $5 Chris Cowan $5 Jeffrey174901:49:57,930 --> 01:50:04,230Rutherford $5 Jeremy Kavanaugh$10 Derek J. Vickery. $21 Paul175001:50:04,230 --> 01:50:10,320Saltzman 2222 Daymond CassieJack $15 David Norman, our buddy175101:50:10,350 --> 01:50:15,960hypercare $25 Jeremy gerdts $5Timothy Hudgins my buddy $25.175201:50:16,290 --> 01:50:18,270And David would find $3 in them.175301:50:19,140 --> 01:50:23,430Thank you all very much. Thispodcast as a long with the175401:50:23,430 --> 01:50:27,600entire podcast and 2.0 Podcast.index.org project is value for175501:50:27,600 --> 01:50:31,680value, no creepy corporatemoney, no VCs, no advertising,175601:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,590just the people who participatein the project. And if you're175701:50:34,590 --> 01:50:37,050listening to this you justlistener, you're more than175801:50:37,050 --> 01:50:40,290welcome to contribute. Go topodcasts. index.org go down to175901:50:40,290 --> 01:50:43,620the bottom you can do readdonate buttons. One is for tally176001:50:43,620 --> 01:50:46,530coin, which I did check earlieron. Just make sure if you want176101:50:46,530 --> 01:50:49,710to send us that full Bitcointhat you've been just there's176201:50:49,710 --> 01:50:52,380been jingling in your pocket.Like, ah, what am I going to do176301:50:52,380 --> 01:50:55,860with this thing, you can scanand scan the QR code there. No176401:50:55,860 --> 01:51:00,300one did that today. You can useyour Fiat fun coupons if you176501:51:00,300 --> 01:51:04,080want, which is through PayPal.But we encourage you go to176601:51:04,080 --> 01:51:08,310podcast apps.com. There you cansee a whole bunch of cool things176701:51:08,310 --> 01:51:12,210that are working with podcastindex.org, including apps, and176801:51:12,210 --> 01:51:15,030they'll tell exactly whatfeatures they use. And please176901:51:15,060 --> 01:51:18,720give one or give all of them atry. It's well worth it and just177001:51:18,720 --> 01:51:23,220remember to boost boost boostoften boost hard boost deep177101:51:23,490 --> 01:51:25,830boost. just made that up.177201:51:27,480 --> 01:51:28,470So but coming up.177301:51:29,400 --> 01:51:33,120Really. I gotta we need to getone of those nut jobs from the177401:51:33,120 --> 01:51:38,160chat room on the show in theboardroom Dave. Whoever's doing177501:51:38,160 --> 01:51:41,400this, whoever is doing allthese. We've got booths, bots, I177601:51:41,400 --> 01:51:44,700saw bots. I mean, there's thatthere's something called gal gal177701:51:44,700 --> 01:51:45,180gal177801:51:45,600 --> 01:51:47,610and serious gal, blueberry.177901:51:48,810 --> 01:51:53,520Whoever it is we didn't go to weneed to bring them in. They178001:51:53,520 --> 01:51:58,530probably use blueberry. Allright. What178101:51:58,530 --> 01:52:01,680else? I don't know. You got toheart out and I got a hard doc178201:52:01,680 --> 01:52:02,190coming up.178301:52:03,240 --> 01:52:07,500Hey, by the way, we you wereused a title from no agenda.178401:52:07,950 --> 01:52:12,570We did. Yeah, lawful but awfulis like Episode 14, something178501:52:12,600 --> 01:52:16,170you already used with lawful butawful we need. We need a search.178601:52:16,290 --> 01:52:18,270We need a title search. So wedon't do we don't?178701:52:18,540 --> 01:52:21,810Oh, my goodness. Well, that isyeah, that's on me. I usually178801:52:21,810 --> 01:52:25,740I'm pretty good catching thatstuff. Got it. We've even used178901:52:26,580 --> 01:52:30,750titles on no agenda that we'veused before on no agenda. Again,179001:52:30,750 --> 01:52:35,580for the second time, I mean,50 130 gets a little fuzzy,179101:52:35,610 --> 01:52:41,820that's a little fuzzy. I justwant to congratulate Zion, Zion,179201:52:41,820 --> 01:52:46,410who launched something. And theyinitially were trying to, I179301:52:46,800 --> 01:52:51,270think that they they took thewhole of sphinx was that thing179401:52:51,270 --> 01:52:55,290called, again, the Sphinx relay.I took the open source code and179501:52:55,290 --> 01:52:59,100turn it into whatever it is,they rebranded as web five app,179601:52:59,130 --> 01:53:01,830and now they got $6 million. Socongratulations,179701:53:02,760 --> 01:53:05,100Nathan, you should do that. Justread Web.179801:53:06,030 --> 01:53:09,540Web five man web five app. It'sa web five experience.179901:53:09,840 --> 01:53:13,230You've got so much blank spaceat the top of steno that if you180001:53:13,230 --> 01:53:16,440can easily fit the words webfive up there.180101:53:17,460 --> 01:53:21,630I agree. Web five. But hey,maybe that's our title web five.180201:53:22,200 --> 01:53:22,950What do you say? Yeah. Oh,180301:53:22,950 --> 01:53:26,820yeah. There you go website. Andyou get $6 million.180401:53:27,420 --> 01:53:30,420I'm gonna do it. I'm gonna nukethe titles. Either we're180501:53:30,420 --> 01:53:33,150trending, which I like or webfive. Which What do you want?180601:53:33,150 --> 01:53:36,030Which one do we choose here?Yeah, we're trending is pretty180701:53:36,030 --> 01:53:37,020good to actually,180801:53:37,650 --> 01:53:40,950that's actually pretty good.Because we are trending on. I180901:53:40,950 --> 01:53:43,020mean, that's literally true.There's not a lot.181001:53:43,080 --> 01:53:45,210And he finally figured out howto explain why you wanted181101:53:45,210 --> 01:53:46,590popularity stuff. So181201:53:46,920 --> 01:53:50,130that's true. Yes. Yeah, that'sright. Yeah.181301:53:52,350 --> 01:53:54,750And one thing I wanted to throwout there, which I thought was181401:53:54,750 --> 01:53:59,190interesting, this podcast, oneis spinning out of what is it?181501:54:00,210 --> 01:54:05,520Radio One on one, live, one livelive. But what did what they're181601:54:05,520 --> 01:54:08,220doing and I just, I just want tomake sure that I'm not the only181701:54:08,220 --> 01:54:11,070one smelling this. So here's therelease podcast. One is181801:54:11,070 --> 01:54:15,030partnering with vs game to offerlisteners a way to engage with181901:54:15,030 --> 01:54:19,410the network's podcast hostthrough gamification. Many games182001:54:19,440 --> 01:54:21,870have been launched on theplatform that enable listeners182101:54:21,870 --> 01:54:25,920to watch and answer predictionand opinion based questions to182201:54:25,950 --> 01:54:30,300win rewards. Does this soundlike one of those scams where182301:54:30,300 --> 01:54:32,610people are playing a game and itplays a little bit of the182401:54:32,610 --> 01:54:33,450podcast?182501:54:34,470 --> 01:54:37,410I think it's more like Googleopinion rewards plus podcast182601:54:37,410 --> 01:54:37,860listening.182701:54:39,840 --> 01:54:41,070What does that have? No.182801:54:41,130 --> 01:54:43,020Have You Ever Have you everheard of Google opinion rewards?182901:54:43,020 --> 01:54:45,570It's basically like, Hey, wouldyou like to take a survey? And183001:54:45,570 --> 01:54:47,250we'll give you a little bit ofGoogle Play credit?183101:54:47,610 --> 01:54:49,200Ah, all right.183201:54:50,520 --> 01:54:54,150That's so when I heard when Iheard their numbers. They were183301:54:54,150 --> 01:54:58,140like, man, podcast. One had agreat revenue this quarter. And183401:54:58,140 --> 01:54:59,970it's like, well, yeah, they'reabout to IPO.183501:55:00,000 --> 01:55:03,900Like, but they had like $3million or something. Yeah.183601:55:04,530 --> 01:55:07,080But they're literally about toIPO as a separate company. Of183701:55:07,080 --> 01:55:09,000course, they're gonna say thatthey had a bunch of money183801:55:09,570 --> 01:55:12,180for their total revenue, annualrevenue if I if I didn't183901:55:12,180 --> 01:55:15,270misunderstand was $12 million.That's not I mean, and that's184001:55:15,270 --> 01:55:19,080not profit, that's revenue theyexpect. I've read some of their184101:55:19,140 --> 01:55:22,020documents. They don't expect tobe profitable for quite a while.184201:55:22,230 --> 01:55:24,600$12 million, and revs Come on184301:55:24,600 --> 01:55:28,380people. Where's all the dollars?You could get half of that with184401:55:28,380 --> 01:55:29,070web five?184501:55:29,100 --> 01:55:31,440I think John Spurlock has allthe billion dollars in184601:55:31,440 --> 01:55:33,660podcasting. I don't know ifsomeone has it.184701:55:34,770 --> 01:55:36,480It's only sold in John'sbasement.184801:55:37,980 --> 01:55:42,300Exactly. Oh, man. Hey, Nathan.Thank you so much, man. This is184901:55:42,300 --> 01:55:44,550great. You're a great boardmember to have on they have a185001:55:44,550 --> 01:55:47,670lot of a lot of cool stuff thankyou for your contributions very185101:55:47,670 --> 01:55:52,530impressed. Me and it's and youknow, I don't want to disparage185201:55:52,530 --> 01:55:56,880anybody was really it's reallyare a huge benefit to us. To the185301:55:56,910 --> 01:56:00,030to the community to thecommunity. It's fantastic really185401:56:00,030 --> 01:56:00,900love having here185501:56:00,930 --> 01:56:02,760and thanks for bringingeverybody Starbucks to the185601:56:02,760 --> 01:56:04,590border. And that was that was185701:56:04,860 --> 01:56:07,500really appreciate that nexttime. I'd like the the croissant185801:56:07,500 --> 01:56:08,280though. I'm one of those.185901:56:09,300 --> 01:56:11,520Sounds it cheese Danish, please.All right. Thank186001:56:11,520 --> 01:56:13,530you very much chat room forbeing with us. Thank you to all186101:56:13,530 --> 01:56:19,110the boosters, Nathan. Thank you.The place to be is steno.fm.186201:56:19,710 --> 01:56:24,330Yep. And and I put the your blogposts, which I think you posted.186301:56:24,330 --> 01:56:27,450Was that Trump today? The blogpost? Yeah. Put that in the show186401:56:27,450 --> 01:56:29,250notes. So we're gonna take alook at that. And if you186501:56:29,250 --> 01:56:33,090wouldn't mind emailing me assoon as you can. A wallet to186601:56:33,090 --> 01:56:35,820lightning wallet or do you everget Alby or something that186701:56:36,060 --> 01:56:38,430leads in G apt get? Get? I'll beout. Thank186801:56:38,430 --> 01:56:40,530you. That helps a lot when weput that right. And by the way,186901:56:40,530 --> 01:56:46,500people can boost him directlynow. Nathan G. That's quite187001:56:46,500 --> 01:56:50,340handy. Dave. We need Adam hadpodcasts index.org and David187101:56:50,340 --> 01:56:51,720podcasts index.org.187201:56:52,170 --> 01:56:55,260That can make that happen.Really? Yes. Oh, that's187301:56:55,260 --> 01:56:55,980exciting.187401:56:56,010 --> 01:56:59,130That's the keys end result. Allright. Well,187501:56:59,130 --> 01:57:03,000let's do it. I love it to justwalk around so you'd like me out187601:57:03,000 --> 01:57:03,210of my187701:57:03,660 --> 01:57:06,540index? No, thanks to the EllenURL, guys, but we just did it.187801:57:07,710 --> 01:57:11,880Exactly faster. All right.That's it. Everyone. Have a187901:57:11,880 --> 01:57:14,430great weekend. Dave. I love you,brother. Nathan, thank you so188001:57:14,430 --> 01:57:17,490much. We'll see you next Fridayfor the board meeting of188101:57:17,490 --> 01:57:18,960podcasting 2.0.188201:57:33,750 --> 01:57:38,280You have been listening topodcasting 2.0 Visit podcast188301:57:38,280 --> 01:57:47,280index.org For more informationby hammering meow