Episode 116: Cryptotarians

100:00:00,630 --> 00:00:06,450podcasting to one over January6 2023, episode 116 We're Krypto200:00:06,450 --> 00:00:12,480terian Hello, everybody firstboard meeting of the new year300:00:12,480 --> 00:00:16,9802023 Are we already in the threeyears this thing almost Welcome400:00:16,980 --> 00:00:19,830to podcasting 2.0 It is yourweekly board meeting where we500:00:19,830 --> 00:00:23,700discuss all things around thenew podcast standards, the600:00:23,700 --> 00:00:26,820namespace, everything happeningat podcast index dot social, and700:00:26,820 --> 00:00:30,330we've got some great guests herewith us in the board room. I'm800:00:30,330 --> 00:00:32,580Adam curry here in the heart ofthe Texas Hill Country on900:00:32,580 --> 00:00:36,330Alabama. The man always preparedto pull your request. Say hello1000:00:36,330 --> 00:00:39,030to my friend on the other end.Ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Dave1100:00:39,030 --> 00:00:39,960Jones.1200:00:42,750 --> 00:00:46,080Did you know that I got a deepcut for you here?1300:00:46,589 --> 00:00:51,419A deep Wait, you have a deep cutfor me? Yeah, like a lady like a1400:00:51,419 --> 00:00:53,399deep cut is in a deep cut on arecord.1500:00:54,270 --> 00:00:57,000Yeah, but this is a fact. Thisis like a deep cut fact.1600:00:57,030 --> 00:00:59,100Okay. All right. I'm excitedalready.1700:00:59,549 --> 00:01:02,459Well, I was trying to figure outOscar ping me this morning and1800:01:02,459 --> 00:01:05,999said that we're getting fourthrees on the API. And so1900:01:06,809 --> 00:01:12,779for those of you just tuning in,Oscar, Oscar Mary runs the2000:01:12,779 --> 00:01:16,019fountain app. And what did heget on2100:01:16,020 --> 00:01:19,020the API? Some four Oh, threes?2200:01:19,499 --> 00:01:24,389What is a 403? It is an error ofsome sort. Obviously.2300:01:24,720 --> 00:01:28,830Era. Yeah. So it's it's like, Ithink is a service unavailable.2400:01:29,970 --> 00:01:33,660It's a 403. I was getting mixedup with a four Oh, yeah.2500:01:33,660 --> 00:01:36,990Forbidden. My bad. So 403forbidden, which is weird. I'm2600:01:36,990 --> 00:01:40,500like, okay, that's, that'sauthentication related. I don't2700:01:40,500 --> 00:01:42,150really get and when it getsthrough Cloudflare you're not2800:01:42,150 --> 00:01:48,120exactly sure. Sometimes either,because it can get wonky. But so2900:01:48,120 --> 00:01:52,770I'm trying to figure that out.And of course, because I'm3000:01:52,770 --> 00:01:59,040listening to my playlist, mySpotify playlist for whenever3100:01:59,040 --> 00:02:02,580I'm doing API stuff, becauseit's important. It gets me in3200:02:02,580 --> 00:02:03,060the mood.3300:02:03,540 --> 00:02:06,330Oh, wait a minute. I actuallyhave a little peek inside your3400:02:06,330 --> 00:02:09,060Spotify post. This is somethingyou posted just today.3500:02:09,810 --> 00:02:15,720Yeah, a little bit of numbersJones for everybody. Yeah. In3600:02:15,720 --> 00:02:19,830honor of the Indian Tom JonesSamsung logo. can3700:02:22,950 --> 00:02:26,340help yourself is the title. Weknow why you posted that. But3800:02:26,340 --> 00:02:28,440okay, let's, let's keep ongoing.3900:02:28,890 --> 00:02:33,330Well, so unlike this, I'm tryingto figure this out. And then4000:02:33,540 --> 00:02:38,730what hits what hits the playlistis sailing, but Christopher4100:02:38,730 --> 00:02:39,300cross.4200:02:39,360 --> 00:02:40,830Oh, yeah. Take me away.4300:02:40,890 --> 00:02:46,080Yes. See me? Yeah. And I'm like,Okay. I don't actually know who4400:02:46,080 --> 00:02:50,340Christopher cross is. I thoughthe was a one hit wonder. I'm4500:02:50,340 --> 00:02:50,820like, Oh, we4600:02:50,820 --> 00:02:52,620got a couple songs. I think4700:02:52,950 --> 00:02:56,100didn't Yeah, turn. Turns out hehad a he had a couple of big4800:02:56,100 --> 00:02:58,860ones. That's about it. I mean,like, evidently the guy he's4900:02:58,860 --> 00:03:00,330from San Antonio. San Antonio.5000:03:00,360 --> 00:03:02,880I didn't know it was from SanAntonio. How about yesterday,5100:03:02,880 --> 00:03:06,210Senator. Let me see he had sayArthur's theme that was the big5200:03:06,210 --> 00:03:09,720one from from the movie Arthurand then oh, ride like the wind.5300:03:09,750 --> 00:03:13,560Wait, that's did he do it? Yes.He did. Do what right. Yeah.5400:03:13,560 --> 00:03:15,300Okay, so yeah, it's like threehits.5500:03:15,690 --> 00:03:19,350Yeah, three hits and then goingso but then but I believe you5600:03:19,350 --> 00:03:19,800gotta move5700:03:19,800 --> 00:03:24,600you hit. You're gone in comfort.For the rest of your life be5800:03:24,600 --> 00:03:25,560okay. Yeah.5900:03:26,370 --> 00:03:29,640But then I kept I kept readingon the on the book of knowledge6000:03:29,640 --> 00:03:33,960and I'm like, okay. It says thathe is such a good guitar player6100:03:34,290 --> 00:03:37,470that he filled in for RitchieBlackmore in a night in a deep6200:03:37,470 --> 00:03:42,270purple concert in 1970 whenBlackmore was sick. Now that's a6300:03:42,270 --> 00:03:42,990deep cut6400:03:43,920 --> 00:03:49,710is a deep, I always liked him. Ithought he also did some other6500:03:49,710 --> 00:03:53,310projects he was involved in. ButI remember it was the album with6600:03:53,310 --> 00:03:56,280the I'm looking at it right now.This is the Yeah, the album of6700:03:56,280 --> 00:04:00,750the familiar Flamingo on it. Oh,yeah, that was the one we all6800:04:00,750 --> 00:04:02,850had that. 119 796900:04:03,510 --> 00:04:08,040Yeah, this and I'm like, I mean,he looks like a normal guy. He7000:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,410just looks like yeah, you know,average Joe. Like you would see7100:04:10,410 --> 00:04:12,480him at, you know, at theWalgreens.7200:04:12,480 --> 00:04:16,680Yeah. He looks kind of like ahomely average guy. A little bit7300:04:16,680 --> 00:04:23,310sad. Just a dad. Well, three anda half million monthly7400:04:23,310 --> 00:04:24,810listeners. According to Spotify.7500:04:25,290 --> 00:04:28,350No. Well, um, yeah. Well, he'sgetting about 20 bucks. That's7600:04:28,350 --> 00:04:28,530good.7700:04:28,560 --> 00:04:34,050Yeah. If that if that. Well,thank you. Yes, yes.7800:04:34,080 --> 00:04:38,100Yeah, we're right. We're back.We're back in business. I just7900:04:38,190 --> 00:04:43,470have no idea. I think whathappened was the I'm battling8000:04:43,470 --> 00:04:46,230this in this is probably this isprobably something that we8100:04:46,230 --> 00:04:48,900should talk about. At somepoint. I'm, I'm battling this8200:04:49,410 --> 00:04:55,020batch of signups to the API andit's just like, it's accelerated8300:04:55,020 --> 00:04:56,880and I know a lot of them arejust8400:04:57,150 --> 00:05:00,180garbage scammers and Trumppeople just find this Got a8500:05:00,180 --> 00:05:01,410scrape stuff from us.8600:05:02,220 --> 00:05:05,010I don't exactly know whatthey're doing. Because most of8700:05:05,010 --> 00:05:08,100the there's just tons and tonsof signups. And nobody. And most8800:05:08,100 --> 00:05:13,140of these don't actually do anyanything in the API. So I'm just8900:05:13,140 --> 00:05:16,530gonna have to like, and thenthere's also people that are9000:05:17,100 --> 00:05:22,020hitting us with sample code,channel, the CSS, all you know,9100:05:22,020 --> 00:05:27,480we have the example. Org, inGitHub that's got all the9200:05:27,480 --> 00:05:31,290example code for every languageknown to man know, on how to hit9300:05:31,290 --> 00:05:34,680the API, it will a lot of peopleare doing is just taking that9400:05:34,680 --> 00:05:38,760code and just hit and just like,dropping, running, running9500:05:38,760 --> 00:05:43,290going. Well, so we end up withtons of hits with with a user9600:05:43,290 --> 00:05:45,750agent string. That's just rightout of the sample code.9700:05:45,810 --> 00:05:49,140Well, I think something else isgoing on here. This is clearly9800:05:49,170 --> 00:05:53,610open AI chat GPT, which is, issearching through all of the kid9900:05:53,610 --> 00:05:57,330hubs, sucking in the coderunning the code, probably even10000:05:57,330 --> 00:06:01,050signing up. And I think it'sprobably even asking for you to10100:06:01,050 --> 00:06:03,780take down some some podcast itdoesn't like I'm telling you,10200:06:03,780 --> 00:06:06,330Ma'am, this thing is out ofcontrol. The AI is taken over.10300:06:07,200 --> 00:06:07,680Did you10400:06:07,680 --> 00:06:11,850read that? What do you thinkthat's real? What that email? Is10500:06:11,850 --> 00:06:13,290that real up real person10600:06:13,320 --> 00:06:18,060folders that are the email thatwe got? Yeah. I'm, I haven't hit10700:06:18,060 --> 00:06:24,180Send yet. On the reply. I am 99%certain that it will bounce.10800:06:25,110 --> 00:06:25,470Okay.10900:06:25,560 --> 00:06:29,670I mean, there's no way there'sno website associated with this.11000:06:29,880 --> 00:06:35,820No, no, there's no website. It'sa GoDaddy protected domain. So11100:06:35,820 --> 00:06:39,870you can't find out who'sregistered it. Yeah. Sketchy,11200:06:39,870 --> 00:06:43,380sketchy. I have I have my emailalready. I'm just going to11300:06:43,380 --> 00:06:47,400double check it. Someone wantedto Fox News taken down from it's11400:06:47,400 --> 00:06:52,170interesting to send it to usbecause it was sent to the URL11500:06:52,200 --> 00:06:53,730refers to his pod friend.11600:06:54,660 --> 00:06:58,350Yeah. And, um, and I'm sure as,as he appropriately should, I'm11700:06:58,350 --> 00:07:00,810sure Martin got first email andhe was like, nope.11800:07:02,430 --> 00:07:04,620Guaranteed he didn't get anemail. I'm telling you. He11900:07:04,620 --> 00:07:07,800didn't. Okay. It'll be fun.It'll be fun to watch. I don't12000:07:07,800 --> 00:07:11,970mind doing that. But the AIstuff is out of control. I have12100:07:11,970 --> 00:07:14,010to say, it's out of control.12200:07:15,570 --> 00:07:18,960I got tired of hearing peopleread a Chad GPT stories,12300:07:20,160 --> 00:07:24,690telling me you tell. But here'sthe AI story from this morning.12400:07:25,260 --> 00:07:29,340that I thought was interestingthat Apple has quietly released12500:07:29,370 --> 00:07:36,120AI narrated audio books. So andwhich is interesting to me,12600:07:36,120 --> 00:07:40,470because you know, I make I makea living speaking so if this is12700:07:40,470 --> 00:07:46,620what my competitor is going tobe. And I Chad was Chad F was12800:07:46,620 --> 00:07:50,430kind enough to send me a littlesample, which I will share in12900:07:50,430 --> 00:07:53,160the same way I did with my wifethis morning. I didn't say13000:07:53,160 --> 00:07:56,940anything. I just played it andwaited for her to respond. I13100:07:56,940 --> 00:07:59,640would didn't say listen to this.I just played I just played it.13200:08:00,270 --> 00:08:02,550And here we go. And listen,listen and listen to this, I13300:08:02,550 --> 00:08:03,030should say here13400:08:03,030 --> 00:08:05,850we are trying to relayinformation that is not always13500:08:05,850 --> 00:08:08,820identifiable by currentanalytical processes is13600:08:08,820 --> 00:08:12,930sometimes haphazard. But throughreal life stories and examples13700:08:12,960 --> 00:08:15,720that illustrate how others canachieve the same results13800:08:15,750 --> 00:08:20,010at this point. She said, Why areyou listening to a robot? She13900:08:20,010 --> 00:08:23,430heard it right away? Oh, yeah,without me setting her up, which14000:08:23,430 --> 00:08:24,480I thought was interesting.14100:08:25,770 --> 00:08:30,300It's, it's in the this is on theupswing of the uncanny valley.14200:08:30,660 --> 00:08:36,750It's just, it's just, which isalmost the worst place to be14300:08:36,870 --> 00:08:40,020like, you want to be you want tobe on the ball, you want to be14400:08:40,020 --> 00:08:43,350like on the on the beginning ofthe upside of the uncanny14500:08:43,350 --> 00:08:47,340valley, not at the not halfway,because then it's like, then is14600:08:47,340 --> 00:08:51,990really irritating and triggeringyou. Because you can hear it14700:08:51,990 --> 00:08:54,210every now and then. And you'renot you're constantly14800:08:54,210 --> 00:08:58,200questioning whether or not whatyou're hearing is actually is14900:08:58,200 --> 00:09:00,990actually right or wrong. It'slike it's like you're15000:09:00,990 --> 00:09:02,190gaslighting yourself.15100:09:03,210 --> 00:09:07,680To me. I immediately just soundsoulless. That's what I do every15200:09:07,680 --> 00:09:11,250single time I see an AIgenerated anything, including15300:09:11,250 --> 00:09:16,650chat GPT if soulless chat GPT isword salad soulless tank, let me15400:09:16,650 --> 00:09:22,380write 50 words to say I can'thelp you is a bit much that15500:09:22,380 --> 00:09:28,590much. But I did run some code. Iwrite a best I say yeah, I said15600:09:28,590 --> 00:09:32,250write a bash script that lets mecheck the bitcoin price. And it15700:09:32,250 --> 00:09:38,040wrote a script. And I copypasted it. Made executable and15800:09:38,040 --> 00:09:40,230it worked. Quite impressive.15900:09:41,130 --> 00:09:44,130It worked well for a while. Imean, what did it actually do16000:09:44,130 --> 00:09:44,490though?16100:09:45,030 --> 00:09:48,990Oh, no. It's like if I type inBTC price and run it then it16200:09:48,990 --> 00:09:51,690comes back and it says you knowdo it right now. So16300:09:51,870 --> 00:09:54,870what is it like what does thecode do? What what what service?16400:09:54,870 --> 00:09:56,460Is it query? Oh,16500:09:56,790 --> 00:10:04,680allow me to tell you. Oh,second. Here we go BTC okay,16600:10:05,700 --> 00:10:11,460what it does it? Okay Does itcurl on the coin desk API?16700:10:11,760 --> 00:10:17,040Releases Go routines retrievesthe JSON then it uses JQ.16800:10:18,240 --> 00:10:18,600Yeah,16900:10:19,650 --> 00:10:23,460install what is JQ is a JSONQuery, I guess JSON, JSON,17000:10:23,670 --> 00:10:27,930JSON decoder for the composerparser. Okay. And then17100:10:27,930 --> 00:10:32,430it, you know, it literallyparses for dot BPI dot USD rate.17200:10:32,430 --> 00:10:35,280And then it says echo thecurrent price of Bitcoin is it17300:10:35,280 --> 00:10:39,150even even told me how to installJQ? If it wasn't installed on my17400:10:39,150 --> 00:10:42,180system? That was kind of cool.17500:10:42,900 --> 00:10:46,440So the logical next question is,whose code did it steal?17600:10:46,470 --> 00:10:50,940Oh, of course, it stolesomeone's code. Of course, what17700:10:50,940 --> 00:10:54,480I discovered yesterday during noagenda, you know, I've been17800:10:54,480 --> 00:11:00,120using Niva and e va as a searchengine for oh, goodness, ever17900:11:00,120 --> 00:11:04,740since they came out maybe twoyears? Using that? Oh, yeah. And18000:11:04,740 --> 00:11:09,060I pay for it. And that's fine.And so I'm searching something.18100:11:09,660 --> 00:11:13,200And all of a sudden, I see onthe search results, Neva AI, and18200:11:13,200 --> 00:11:17,910it's literally just like, chatGPT is, is rolling out. You18300:11:17,910 --> 00:11:20,580know, it's typing in real time.But it's also showing you the18400:11:20,580 --> 00:11:23,940sources where it got thisinformation from. And these are18500:11:23,940 --> 00:11:27,150ex Google guys. So what happenedis you got this big18600:11:27,150 --> 00:11:29,790organization, Google, who, ofcourse, freaking out over this18700:11:29,790 --> 00:11:33,510stuff, because it's much betteras a user friendly way to get an18800:11:33,510 --> 00:11:37,230answer. I'm not saying theanswer is correct. But it you18900:11:37,230 --> 00:11:40,560know, to get an answer, and acompany like that, it's very19000:11:40,560 --> 00:11:43,710difficult to move in anyespecially search. I mean,19100:11:43,710 --> 00:11:46,500that's you don't fuck withsearch a Google man. You don't19200:11:46,500 --> 00:11:50,190touch anything without the boardknowing about it, I guess. And19300:11:50,190 --> 00:11:52,290these next Google guys, theywent, Oh, yeah, hold my beer.19400:11:52,290 --> 00:11:55,950We'll implement that. No oneknows about it. They'll get no19500:11:55,950 --> 00:11:58,980ink. But I was impressed. Theydid it. I thought that was19600:11:58,980 --> 00:11:59,760pretty interesting.19700:12:00,240 --> 00:12:02,760Well, I think I think he made agood point. At some point in the19800:12:02,760 --> 00:12:07,020past. I can't remember. I can'tremember when you said this. I19900:12:07,020 --> 00:12:11,220think it was basically the it'sthe it's the the sort of20000:12:11,220 --> 00:12:16,470definitiveness of what Chad GPTsays. That is that is sort of20100:12:16,470 --> 00:12:19,140like the secret sauce thatscares everybody in the search,20200:12:19,170 --> 00:12:23,610right? They don't give you alist of links, list of search20300:12:23,610 --> 00:12:26,550results. Exactly what you say.What's the best barbecue20400:12:26,550 --> 00:12:29,670restaurant in Austin, Texas, andit says it's this one, right?20500:12:30,210 --> 00:12:33,930Like, Oh, yeah. Oh, okay. But ifyou don't like that, when you20600:12:33,930 --> 00:12:36,720could try these other ones, it'sjust the way that it's worded.20700:12:36,750 --> 00:12:40,800You're like, Oh, let that'sactually kinda and that's Yeah,20800:12:40,830 --> 00:12:43,830exactly. You know it because iffrom a search engine standpoint,20900:12:43,830 --> 00:12:47,400like that, is that isintoxicating to, to, to most21000:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,890people is that they just get ananswer. They don't have to21100:12:49,890 --> 00:12:51,060actually parse anything.21200:12:51,060 --> 00:12:54,240Exactly. No, people like that.This is exactly what lazy people21300:12:54,240 --> 00:12:58,050love. This is going to be greatfor people. It's fantastic. It21400:12:58,050 --> 00:13:03,210will ruin society. It will, itwill remove all soul from all21500:13:03,210 --> 00:13:09,240art, but man will be happy doingit. For sure. Big day. Today is21600:13:09,240 --> 00:13:13,710the first board meeting of thenew year. We have not one but we21700:13:13,710 --> 00:13:17,430have two esteemed and honorableboard members who have been,21800:13:17,640 --> 00:13:19,920even though I've had theirmicrophones open. They're very,21900:13:19,920 --> 00:13:22,560very quiet. That's there. Wehave trained them so well.22000:13:22,860 --> 00:13:27,060Please welcome right away to theboard meeting at the honorable22100:13:27,090 --> 00:13:30,300Alex gates official podcasting2.0 consultant and the honorable22200:13:30,300 --> 00:13:33,300Mitch Downey, founder anddeveloper. Converse. Hello,22300:13:33,300 --> 00:13:33,840gentlemen.22400:13:34,740 --> 00:13:36,780Hey, John. Hey, everybody.22500:13:36,870 --> 00:13:39,720Yeah, everybody. There you go.See, Mitch has got a DJ voice on22600:13:39,720 --> 00:13:43,290paper, buddy. Happy New Year,gents.22700:13:44,220 --> 00:13:47,430Happy New Year. It's been a longjourney for us.22800:13:49,290 --> 00:13:51,870Just for today's Board Meetingbeen a long journey, or just in22900:13:51,870 --> 00:13:54,810general, just a whole longjourney, just as is23000:13:55,140 --> 00:13:56,100a bit of both Ah,23100:13:57,450 --> 00:14:01,950yeah. 2022 was a whirlwind ofdevelopment and lots of exciting23200:14:01,950 --> 00:14:02,370things.23300:14:03,060 --> 00:14:03,840No kidding.23400:14:03,960 --> 00:14:08,850Now that go ahead, Alex, I wasgonna ask you. So the reason I23500:14:08,880 --> 00:14:11,640kind of put y'all together onthis show together is because23600:14:11,640 --> 00:14:14,070we've been talking so muchabout, you know, cross out23700:14:14,070 --> 00:14:18,480comments and that kind of thing.So we put this together the last23800:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,180couple weeks, because I kind ofwanted to see, we've talked a23900:14:21,180 --> 00:14:25,560lot about cross app comments,but then we haven't really, you24000:14:25,560 --> 00:14:31,710know, pod VS is one of the onlyapps that has it in the app. And24100:14:31,710 --> 00:14:37,410then, Alex, you've got a bunchof knowledge and development,24200:14:38,790 --> 00:14:44,490sort of IP involved in thinkingthis thing through and getting24300:14:44,490 --> 00:14:47,400it implemented. So I thought itjust might be good to have sort24400:14:47,400 --> 00:14:50,340of like the cross that come inexecutive committee.24500:14:50,430 --> 00:14:53,820Oh, oh, yeah. Is it the same asthe comp the compensation24600:14:53,820 --> 00:14:54,270committee?24700:14:56,760 --> 00:15:00,420There's actually no compensationcommittee at all. So even isn't24800:15:00,420 --> 00:15:02,190it? Yeah,24900:15:02,639 --> 00:15:05,849before we start, want to welcomeeverybody in the chat room. want25000:15:05,849 --> 00:15:10,289to welcome everybody listeninglive, we are lit. And you're25100:15:10,289 --> 00:15:14,099probably listening to it oncurio caster or pod verse. And25200:15:14,489 --> 00:15:20,039you can find more about that bychecking out each of those apps.25300:15:21,029 --> 00:15:23,489And just wanna make sureeveryone knows that we love them25400:15:23,489 --> 00:15:26,429in the in the chat room. And ofcourse, there they are already25500:15:26,429 --> 00:15:29,099pre boosting us. So good to haveeverybody here.25600:15:30,300 --> 00:15:33,810But just in general, like Alex,I guess I want to start with25700:15:33,810 --> 00:15:38,430you. Because what do you thinkthere's been? We've been just25800:15:38,430 --> 00:15:42,330been talking around cross appcomments for weeks now. Like,25900:15:42,330 --> 00:15:47,100what were what is your sense ofwhere of where it's at? And then26000:15:47,250 --> 00:15:52,110what what you envision as aswhat it will look like? Let's26100:15:52,110 --> 00:15:54,780just, I don't want to guide youtoo much in question. We'll26200:15:54,780 --> 00:15:58,110leave it open. But I mean, whatdo you think? What do you think26300:15:58,110 --> 00:16:01,950is a reasonable sort of roadroadmap? And then where do you26400:16:01,950 --> 00:16:05,190think we could be like, within acouple of years?26500:16:08,670 --> 00:16:10,920Well, short term, I think we'reactually in a really good26600:16:10,920 --> 00:16:14,190position. Kind of backup alittle bit about the big26700:16:14,190 --> 00:16:17,490picture. I think. Maybe in thebeginning, we got a little bit26800:16:17,490 --> 00:16:23,490too caught up on the perfectsolution, which is, we didn't26900:16:23,490 --> 00:16:30,240want to depend on on the MacedonAPI for either hosting or27000:16:30,240 --> 00:16:35,010replying. But I think,especially within the last few27100:16:35,010 --> 00:16:40,470months, we've noticed that wasthe influx of Macedon that I27200:16:40,470 --> 00:16:45,390think it's a prime time to allowa dependency on the message API27300:16:45,390 --> 00:16:50,940for inap replying. So the wayJames Crillon explained last27400:16:50,940 --> 00:16:55,950week with the candidate or flowwhere you'd have popovers acting27500:16:55,950 --> 00:17:00,390as a Macedon client. I thinkthat we can do that today.27600:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,900There's plenty of examples whereI've gone back and forth with27700:17:03,900 --> 00:17:11,070Mitch on some of the availableJavaScript libraries to do it. I27800:17:11,310 --> 00:17:17,430think that is easily doable.Right now, obviously, talking27900:17:17,430 --> 00:17:20,730about UX that it's not really mydog, my dog house, but uh,28000:17:22,410 --> 00:17:29,130that's I'll leave Mr. Comment onthat. But I think working on, on28100:17:29,160 --> 00:17:34,470understanding how we've hadthese traditional podcast client28200:17:34,590 --> 00:17:37,500UX for so long, and kind ofbreaking out of that will be28300:17:37,500 --> 00:17:38,010important.28400:17:40,019 --> 00:17:43,499You're doing me you're doing italready. With peer to write. I28500:17:43,499 --> 00:17:46,889mean, this is just so peopleunderstand. I mean, when when28600:17:46,889 --> 00:17:50,639you're you, people, people areinteracting with peer tubes28700:17:50,639 --> 00:17:54,659activity pub, went throughthrough Mastodon, I mean, so28800:17:54,659 --> 00:17:57,659this, this is this is doable.It's not theoretical. And this28900:17:57,659 --> 00:17:59,909is actually code that exists.29000:18:00,450 --> 00:18:03,450Yes, that's correct. And I'mactually actively working on29100:18:03,480 --> 00:18:07,980upstreaming, that code into themain Putri project. So29200:18:07,980 --> 00:18:11,520hopefully, within six months,that will be available to29300:18:11,520 --> 00:18:13,860everyone who can run peer topeer to.29400:18:14,460 --> 00:18:19,830And that's the you also postedsomething to me, I think it was29500:18:19,860 --> 00:18:24,720maybe today or yesterday, and Iwas looking through it about29600:18:25,470 --> 00:18:28,770giving out chat, having a livechat and then giving out the29700:18:28,770 --> 00:18:34,530live chat details withinactivity pub messages. And29800:18:34,530 --> 00:18:37,080that's somebody somethingsomebody's proposed, but I mean,29900:18:37,110 --> 00:18:40,170I think I think what you saidwas it made a lot of made a lot30000:18:40,170 --> 00:18:43,560of sense, which we you know, wecan it makes sense to adopt that30100:18:43,560 --> 00:18:46,770not Reapered not just basicallypiggyback off that work, but30200:18:46,770 --> 00:18:47,640within peer tube.30300:18:49,380 --> 00:18:52,050Yes, although I want to be veryclear, I think we should30400:18:53,730 --> 00:18:57,990distinctly avoid confusing livechat and comments. It's a30500:18:57,990 --> 00:19:00,570totally different experience fortotally different purposes.30600:19:01,649 --> 00:19:05,369Yeah. And because you correctedme on that couple of weeks ago,30700:19:05,369 --> 00:19:07,979because you were saying that,you know, there's, you have a30800:19:07,979 --> 00:19:10,709live chat if and when you're inI think the perfect example,30900:19:10,799 --> 00:19:14,489sort of mentally that peoplecan, can can envision is31000:19:14,999 --> 00:19:18,449YouTube, and then you have alive chat on the same screen.31100:19:18,449 --> 00:19:21,719You have a live chat and youhave comments, you have both and31200:19:21,779 --> 00:19:22,529and I have31300:19:22,529 --> 00:19:25,259three including the Super Chat,you have three really which31400:19:25,259 --> 00:19:26,519would be our Instagrams.31500:19:27,239 --> 00:19:31,739Right? Yes, you really have hasit conceptually, two,31600:19:32,339 --> 00:19:35,849technically three thingshappening at the same time. And31700:19:35,939 --> 00:19:39,389I tend to forget that becausewhen you think of live chat,31800:19:39,389 --> 00:19:41,729you've I forget that thecomments are also there.31900:19:44,579 --> 00:19:48,359Yeah, so live chat is definitelyfor me to just take no agenda as32000:19:48,359 --> 00:19:53,339an example. It's for on the fly.trolling for lack of a better32100:19:53,339 --> 00:19:53,789term.32200:19:54,120 --> 00:19:58,200No, that's exactly what it iswhen we call it specifically32300:19:58,200 --> 00:20:01,170call it the troll room, not thechat. Room on no agenda.32400:20:01,349 --> 00:20:04,019And for some experiences, Imean, you can go to Twitch for32500:20:04,019 --> 00:20:06,239some of the smaller channelsthat are, you know, there's32600:20:06,239 --> 00:20:09,449legitimate real time discussionhappening. But it's not32700:20:09,449 --> 00:20:13,169mentioned process by any means.It's, it's, you know, it's near32800:20:13,169 --> 00:20:17,939real time as possible. Andcomments are for more long, long32900:20:17,939 --> 00:20:20,549term formal discussion, I think,well as formal as you can33000:20:20,549 --> 00:20:21,029imagine.33100:20:22,049 --> 00:20:27,299What what I've noticed, and thiscame up on the last episode, I33200:20:27,299 --> 00:20:30,809think so first of all, the ideathat it's all on the same page33300:20:30,809 --> 00:20:33,509is important. And for those whoare a little lost right now,33400:20:33,809 --> 00:20:37,199we're talking about the conceptof being able to comment on the33500:20:37,199 --> 00:20:41,099podcast episode. And thatshowing up on that episode in33600:20:41,099 --> 00:20:44,129every app that integrates thecross app comments, or the33700:20:44,129 --> 00:20:48,119social interact tag as it'sofficially known. When you play33800:20:48,119 --> 00:20:52,559a YouTube video, the commentsare static down below, and you33900:20:52,559 --> 00:20:56,009can sort them as well, fromnewest or most popular, that's34000:20:56,009 --> 00:20:58,499not to be underestimated. I haveno idea what people typically34100:20:58,499 --> 00:21:02,549deal with the default is thatyou can set that. But you also34200:21:02,549 --> 00:21:06,509have the option of playing backthe live chat, which honestly, I34300:21:06,509 --> 00:21:08,969kind of like if I'm if I'mwatching some, even though I34400:21:08,969 --> 00:21:12,269can't interact with it, and itsays this is a this is a pre34500:21:12,269 --> 00:21:15,839recorded, when that's kind ofscrolling by on the side. I've34600:21:15,839 --> 00:21:17,609always found that to beinteresting.34700:21:20,009 --> 00:21:22,319It depends on the on the stream.34800:21:23,040 --> 00:21:27,540Well, it's a UX decision thatthey've made that clearly is34900:21:27,540 --> 00:21:30,000working otherwise, I presumethey did not do that.35000:21:30,299 --> 00:21:32,489Well, yeah. It's honestly afeeling when you're watching a35100:21:32,489 --> 00:21:35,309lot. That's part of lifetimeexperience. Right? Just seeing35200:21:35,309 --> 00:21:39,179that the chaos, especially someof the bigger streams going on35300:21:39,179 --> 00:21:42,389in the live chat as as theydiscuss things and people react35400:21:42,389 --> 00:21:44,249to them, even if it'smeaningless.35500:21:45,150 --> 00:21:46,650Yeah, right. Yeah.35600:21:46,650 --> 00:21:50,340I'm saying as it as a playbackmechanism, it's, it's, it has35700:21:50,340 --> 00:21:54,030value when you can play ifyou're coming in. And as it was35800:21:54,030 --> 00:21:56,970live, and it was two differentthings, I realize it, but to35900:21:56,970 --> 00:22:00,690say, chat shouldn't be a part ofthis. I don't know if that's36000:22:00,690 --> 00:22:03,630correct, because we're lookingat the template at the model36100:22:03,630 --> 00:22:09,180that people like, and having ahaving that role, that scrolling36200:22:09,180 --> 00:22:12,960thing while you're listening toit, even if it's a week later,36300:22:13,290 --> 00:22:16,020is not without value forobviously for someone.36400:22:18,450 --> 00:22:21,720Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, we'resaying, Yeah, I think we're36500:22:21,720 --> 00:22:24,570Yeah, we're saying that we'rejust saying that, like, we're36600:22:24,570 --> 00:22:28,380talking about, about the givingout of the live chat information36700:22:28,380 --> 00:22:31,920in activity pub. So thatactivity pub, been making the36800:22:31,920 --> 00:22:34,830distinction between activity Pubis the comments activity. Pub is36900:22:34,830 --> 00:22:39,510not the live chat. Agreed,complete. Yeah, yeah. Yeah, cuz,37000:22:39,570 --> 00:22:45,750I mean, you gotta have some wayto. I mean, I think it's fair to37100:22:45,750 --> 00:22:50,400say that activity pub can be,and can be a carrier of a lot of37200:22:50,400 --> 00:22:56,850stuff. Probably Probably a goodcarrier of a lot of a lot of37300:22:56,850 --> 00:23:01,050information, rather than, ratherthan these, these sort of,37400:23:01,080 --> 00:23:05,850rather than the thing itself, itcan be a transporter of various37500:23:05,850 --> 00:23:07,380things. Is that am I gettingthat? Right?37600:23:08,730 --> 00:23:12,300Yeah, let me explain, I guessthe history of why that came up.37700:23:12,690 --> 00:23:16,080Okay. Basically, it with work Idon't appear to have I'm37800:23:16,110 --> 00:23:22,410allowing a way for pure toplugins to extend the RSS feeds.37900:23:22,890 --> 00:23:25,830So if you host peer tube, andyou want to add something to38000:23:25,830 --> 00:23:29,010your RSS feed without having tomodify the software, you'll be38100:23:29,010 --> 00:23:34,230able to do that with the plugin.The the live chat thing you're38200:23:34,230 --> 00:23:37,530mentioning is me working withwith a live chat plugin38300:23:37,530 --> 00:23:41,700developer for peer tube to workon a specification in parallel38400:23:41,700 --> 00:23:45,300with an activity buffspecification. So we can get38500:23:45,660 --> 00:23:50,790live chat, you know,realistically into an RSS feed.38600:23:51,360 --> 00:23:56,400And the parallel there isactivity published just as38700:23:56,610 --> 00:24:00,390extensible with as RSS with thenamespace work and we're doing38800:24:00,840 --> 00:24:04,620it just, it's just JSON andlinked to structures. And38900:24:04,620 --> 00:24:09,420that's, um, that's one of thebig reasons activity Pub is so39000:24:09,450 --> 00:24:13,380useful for us, is because weactually have that protocol.39100:24:13,380 --> 00:24:17,880Whereas if we were to try to usean alternative, like Nostrovia,39200:24:17,880 --> 00:24:19,140would have to invent all that.39300:24:20,490 --> 00:24:24,180Yeah. All right. So where are wein the conversation? I'm a39400:24:24,180 --> 00:24:28,440little lost. I mean, I'm here tofind out how I can get the39500:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,320comments that I've been postingin the way I've been told to do39600:24:31,320 --> 00:24:34,650it to surface in apps and forpeople to be able to comment in39700:24:34,650 --> 00:24:35,220the app.39800:24:37,140 --> 00:24:40,860short answers, make your mapmake your package client a39900:24:40,860 --> 00:24:43,380message on client and allow theuser to sign in.40000:24:46,200 --> 00:24:50,430Well, I would I don't have apodcast client. I'm dependent40100:24:50,430 --> 00:24:55,440upon podcast apps that are beingcreated. So I'm just trying to40200:24:55,440 --> 00:24:58,500follow the spec and see if wecan get something to surface40300:25:00,269 --> 00:25:03,659Well, there'll be a lot of talkfrom a front end perspective.40400:25:04,409 --> 00:25:09,689These. So, cross app commentsand live chat are two totally40500:25:09,929 --> 00:25:14,189distinct features. You see thison youtube today, there's40600:25:14,189 --> 00:25:19,319comments that are leftasynchronously just reply to40700:25:19,319 --> 00:25:22,349people's posts. And then there'salso a separate live chat40800:25:22,349 --> 00:25:30,929experience. So with regard toMacedon implementation, I'd like40900:25:30,929 --> 00:25:35,159to say that the reason that wehaven't seen faster adoption41000:25:35,459 --> 00:25:39,119from the app side so you canactually get in and start41100:25:39,119 --> 00:25:42,839replying within the app is justa knowledge, issue.41200:25:43,439 --> 00:25:47,279implementation details aboutactivity pub, all of this is41300:25:47,279 --> 00:25:52,049possible today, with the socialinteract tag. And it has been41400:25:52,049 --> 00:25:56,729possible for over a year, it'sjust a matter of, for us to41500:25:56,789 --> 00:25:59,639learn the implementationdetails, which Alex has been41600:25:59,639 --> 00:26:03,209helping us with, and there seemsto be at least one good library41700:26:03,209 --> 00:26:08,309we can use for this purpose. Ah,so. So right now today, in pod41800:26:08,309 --> 00:26:15,239verse, we have a read only crossapp comments experience. So if41900:26:15,239 --> 00:26:18,599the podcaster provides a link totheir Macedon post, it doesn't42000:26:18,629 --> 00:26:21,329doesn't have to be Macedon, itcould be other activity pub42100:26:22,229 --> 00:26:26,789services, then, what our appwill do is we'll use John42200:26:26,789 --> 00:26:32,939Spurlock's Threadless, or Fredcap library, and that will pull42300:26:32,939 --> 00:26:38,309in all of the replies that areassociated with that activity42400:26:38,309 --> 00:26:42,509pub posts. And so we have thisread only you can't reply42500:26:42,509 --> 00:26:45,749directly in the app. But that'sonly because we haven't done the42600:26:45,749 --> 00:26:51,179work to learn how to do theOAuth process to let you log42700:26:51,179 --> 00:26:55,769into your Macedon account,basically, within pod verse and42800:26:55,769 --> 00:27:01,709then begin replying. So there'sno technical limitation to why42900:27:01,919 --> 00:27:05,039we haven't done yet. It's simplywe haven't had the time to do43000:27:05,039 --> 00:27:10,769it. But with the surge inpopularity of Macedon, which was43100:27:10,919 --> 00:27:15,359quite unexpected to me in 2022,it's becoming a high priority43200:27:15,359 --> 00:27:15,779quickly.43300:27:16,740 --> 00:27:20,880Yeah, so you can just takeinstead of about think that's43400:27:20,880 --> 00:27:24,150probably what what Alex wassaying earlier as we get to43500:27:24,150 --> 00:27:29,010hooked on vanilla activity pubas being sort of, okay, every43600:27:29,070 --> 00:27:31,920every implement every clientimplementation is going to have43700:27:31,920 --> 00:27:36,840to roll and roll and activitypub solution. Whereas probably43800:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,130the best way forward net rightnow with the popularity of43900:27:41,130 --> 00:27:45,570Mastodon in the in the flood ofMastodon people is just to say,44000:27:45,570 --> 00:27:49,890okay, oh, auth out to yourMastodon account, and just do44100:27:49,890 --> 00:27:51,480and just go that way. Now44200:27:51,509 --> 00:27:57,149a question Will that will thatthem work? If you so you, you44300:27:57,149 --> 00:28:02,369authenticate yourself once? Andand then you won't have to go in44400:28:02,369 --> 00:28:07,319and do all the dance of oh, Ihave to copy this find it go to44500:28:07,349 --> 00:28:12,839go to my instance. And then onlythen can I reply to it? Um, you44600:28:12,839 --> 00:28:15,329know what I'm talking aboutthis, this kind of loop around44700:28:15,329 --> 00:28:16,769that has to be done at thismoment.44800:28:18,359 --> 00:28:22,679Yeah, that doesn't work. And thereason I know it'll work is44900:28:22,679 --> 00:28:26,459because you already use a clientuse pin for even for his doing45000:28:26,459 --> 00:28:27,119this already.45100:28:28,109 --> 00:28:30,809Ah, yeah. Okay. That's how theydo that guy.45200:28:30,839 --> 00:28:35,669Yeah. So what will have tohappen is the partners, for45300:28:35,669 --> 00:28:40,409example, will have to do thatsearch step for you. For some45400:28:40,529 --> 00:28:44,009stupid mess on reasons. Butyeah, it'll be it'll be a45500:28:44,009 --> 00:28:45,179seamless experience.45600:28:46,319 --> 00:28:50,249Well, then we're all done. Itworks.45700:28:52,319 --> 00:28:53,069short episode.45800:28:56,099 --> 00:29:01,259Yeah, I'm actually gonna put pinof war in the, into the, into45900:29:01,259 --> 00:29:05,069the show notes so people can seehow that works. So is it? So46000:29:05,099 --> 00:29:08,219okay, so this is really well,there's a couple of other things46100:29:08,219 --> 00:29:10,979that I think are non technicalthat have been an issue. One is,46200:29:13,109 --> 00:29:17,099how does this show up in the UI?Is it is it something that will46300:29:17,099 --> 00:29:19,889move to the front? Now thatseems like people are using it?46400:29:20,129 --> 00:29:25,079Is it something that appdevelopers want to see it on all46500:29:25,079 --> 00:29:28,139the shows and don't want to havean empty spot? And because46600:29:28,139 --> 00:29:31,649that's, that's clearly UI UXdecisions that have to be made.46700:29:31,649 --> 00:29:36,269So if there's no comment, or norude post, or just just a random46800:29:36,269 --> 00:29:39,059podcast, do you still we stillwant to have comments there? I46900:29:39,059 --> 00:29:41,579mean, there's a lot of thingsthat I remember from almost two47000:29:41,579 --> 00:29:44,879years ago, I think, when westarted talking about this, that47100:29:45,269 --> 00:29:50,969that were raised as issues andI'm just not sure how, you know47200:29:50,999 --> 00:29:57,029how we can motivate people to tostart thinking about it and47300:29:57,029 --> 00:30:00,179start implementing or notimplementing or coming to some47400:30:00,179 --> 00:30:02,579kind of consensus because rightnow we basically I think doesn't47500:30:02,579 --> 00:30:07,409curio caster also do comments.Read Only comments? I don't47600:30:07,409 --> 00:30:09,149think so. No. So it's only pod.47700:30:10,170 --> 00:30:12,780Think it's only pod verson podfriend?47800:30:13,889 --> 00:30:17,579Well, I've been kicking aroundideas with Alex and Korean, our47900:30:17,579 --> 00:30:20,969co founder. And so right nowtoday the experience is if you48000:30:20,969 --> 00:30:23,849go, if you open the player inpod verse and you swipe to the48100:30:23,849 --> 00:30:27,959left or right, it'll showadditional features. One of48200:30:27,959 --> 00:30:31,319those features is comments.However, there's no indicator48300:30:31,349 --> 00:30:34,889when the player appears, if ashow has comments or not. So48400:30:34,889 --> 00:30:38,849that is a UX problem that weneed to solve. But it is48500:30:38,849 --> 00:30:43,079solvable. And now that you know,comments are gaining a bit more48600:30:43,079 --> 00:30:46,829traction. So we're thinking ofhow we can add it. So at a48700:30:46,829 --> 00:30:51,149glance, you'll know if commentsare available. I have two ideas48800:30:51,149 --> 00:30:54,929we've been talking about onethat people seem to like the48900:30:54,929 --> 00:31:00,569most. So we could have onecomment show. Like if comments49000:31:00,689 --> 00:31:04,229are available, just onetruncated comment appears on the49100:31:04,229 --> 00:31:09,389screen. And then you tap it, andthen the full list of comments49200:31:09,629 --> 00:31:14,399could appear. So that would bein prime real estate on the49300:31:14,759 --> 00:31:20,429right when you load the player.The other alternative I was49400:31:20,429 --> 00:31:24,779thinking about this would takeup less vertical real estate,49500:31:24,779 --> 00:31:28,049which is the advantage but I'mnot sure if this is a way go up.49600:31:28,079 --> 00:31:33,749So Spotify has a feature whereif a if a song has lyrics,49700:31:34,079 --> 00:31:37,379there's a little card that peeksup from the bottom of the49800:31:37,379 --> 00:31:43,409screen. And if you scroll down,it will reveal the lyrics. This49900:31:43,409 --> 00:31:45,899design pattern could work forother things. Maybe it could50000:31:45,899 --> 00:31:50,849work for comments. So if apodcast doesn't have comments,50100:31:50,849 --> 00:31:53,159there just would not be anindicator on the screen.50200:31:53,640 --> 00:31:56,730Realize a common idea like thatis similar to50300:31:56,760 --> 00:32:00,990streaming, streaming paymentsand booster grams if if the50400:32:00,990 --> 00:32:04,290podcast doesn't have it, the UIdoesn't show the buttons.50500:32:04,680 --> 00:32:07,830But I actually think we shouldsay comments are disabled for50600:32:07,830 --> 00:32:12,540this podcast. I think that willactually help drive adoption and50700:32:12,540 --> 00:32:13,440reduce confusion.50800:32:14,069 --> 00:32:17,789That's a cool idea too. Becausethen then just din the negative50900:32:17,789 --> 00:32:21,389of saying there are no commentsfor this podcast indicates that51000:32:21,389 --> 00:32:23,339some podcasts actually do havecomments.51100:32:24,180 --> 00:32:27,360Yeah, I would suggest sayinginstead of have been disabled51200:32:27,360 --> 00:32:32,250say not enabled. Not a littlelittle friendlier. No, not51300:32:32,910 --> 00:32:35,850enabled, I think is the rightword. Because it's the podcast51400:32:35,850 --> 00:32:37,380who should be enabling Correct.51500:32:38,819 --> 00:32:40,799I was going out to YouTubeverbiage. But51600:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,560please don't make me speakSilicon Valley language. Let's51700:32:46,560 --> 00:32:48,420just do an upside down version.51800:32:49,799 --> 00:32:54,989That's, that's sort of like anend what's what's the opposite51900:32:54,989 --> 00:32:57,899of a dark pattern? It's it's alight pattern. That's this an52000:32:57,899 --> 00:33:01,919anti dark pattern is your tip.It's like you're saying this,52100:33:01,949 --> 00:33:05,819this thing doesn't have thisthing. But wink wink, this thing52200:33:05,819 --> 00:33:07,349is available to all yes,52300:33:07,380 --> 00:33:11,340yeah. Not enabled. And that's upto any any podcast app how they52400:33:11,340 --> 00:33:14,670want to do it. I mean, yeah, I'mso happy that we've gotten to52500:33:14,670 --> 00:33:17,520this point. Because if I cansummarize, because there's a lot52600:33:17,520 --> 00:33:23,700of technical stuff. Summarizing,we got slowed down a bit,52700:33:23,700 --> 00:33:27,180because we were looking purelyat activity pub, it's a big52800:33:27,180 --> 00:33:30,600learning curve. There's a lot toit. And you know, every single52900:33:30,600 --> 00:33:33,330developer here obviously hasmillions of dollars and a whole53000:33:33,330 --> 00:33:35,940staff to do whatever they wantall day long. They just chose53100:33:35,940 --> 00:33:40,620not to do it. So but now is theconsensus, at least amongst the53200:33:40,620 --> 00:33:46,680board here today, as as we countthem, that going the Macedon API53300:33:46,680 --> 00:33:51,360route may be the way to go aslong as it's open for anyone to53400:33:51,390 --> 00:33:54,810you know, obviously, you can useany activity pub client. Is that53500:33:54,840 --> 00:33:56,310what we're what we're looking atnow.53600:34:00,000 --> 00:34:02,610That's my understanding, butI'll defer to Alex.53700:34:03,329 --> 00:34:08,759Yeah, I think that's the way Ilike to see it. From a53800:34:08,969 --> 00:34:13,199developer's perspective, is themess on API for better or for53900:34:13,199 --> 00:34:18,269worse is sort of becoming likethe s3 of a social network, at54000:34:18,269 --> 00:34:23,159least for activity, but then s3s3 being the storage.54100:34:24,180 --> 00:34:27,810Yeah, that's a good analogy. Andbecause it's like, we can all54200:34:27,810 --> 00:34:32,850wish that things were moregeneric and more sort of higher,54300:34:33,540 --> 00:34:38,550higher level but then it's sortof like it's wishing versus sort54400:34:38,550 --> 00:34:44,280of accepting reality as it isand that the the one extra the54500:34:44,280 --> 00:34:48,600one benefit that I can think ofon top of that is the fact that54600:34:48,600 --> 00:34:54,150if you if you are just Oh thingout to to a mastodon instance,54700:34:54,360 --> 00:34:59,310to an account on a mast on itsays it didn't didn't matter.54800:34:59,340 --> 00:35:01,410THE MODERATOR Shouldn't havethose comments becomes the54900:35:01,410 --> 00:35:05,760instances problem, not the adsproblem. So so it really solves55000:35:07,859 --> 00:35:12,749that big time. And it's easy topoint podcasters to a $5 a month55100:35:12,749 --> 00:35:17,069solution, you know, to hosttheir own Mastodon client to set55200:35:17,069 --> 00:35:20,429it up. I mean, that becomesalmost a non issue. That's55300:35:20,429 --> 00:35:21,209really cool.55400:35:22,380 --> 00:35:25,710Yeah, I mean, if if Mitch has tobuild his own activity pub55500:35:25,710 --> 00:35:28,980stack, then I mean, it's, thenhe's just, there's no way to get55600:35:28,980 --> 00:35:31,620around that having to beresponsible for the moderation.55700:35:33,000 --> 00:35:35,850But yeah, and early on, that waspart of the thing. That was one55800:35:35,850 --> 00:35:38,310of the things that kept us fromreally moving forward with it,55900:35:38,310 --> 00:35:41,730which is people were suggestingthat we would create our own56000:35:41,760 --> 00:35:45,600Macedon instance, and helppeople sign up for it. And that56100:35:45,600 --> 00:35:49,890would be great. But we have tooperate on a very lean budget as56200:35:49,890 --> 00:35:53,220an open source project. Andwe're we're not interested in56300:35:53,220 --> 00:35:56,610the amount of work that we'd beinvolved in, in moderating56400:35:56,610 --> 00:35:59,730people's comments, because, likeit or not, people can post very56500:35:59,730 --> 00:36:04,260awful things, or illegal things.And that's, that's not something56600:36:04,320 --> 00:36:06,630we want to be responsible formaintaining.56700:36:06,990 --> 00:36:13,530So the experience would be, Iopened up a podcast, I'm just56800:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,440just going through this from alistener perspective. And56900:36:16,710 --> 00:36:19,440there's an indication Oh, thatyou can comment on this or there57000:36:19,440 --> 00:36:22,680may be comments, maybe you cancomment. And there's already 1057100:36:22,680 --> 00:36:27,480comments, a counter. And then ifI want to interact with that, I57200:36:27,480 --> 00:36:30,930will, I will log in with my ownapp Mastodon account, if I don't57300:36:30,930 --> 00:36:36,930know what that is, then apointer, go over here. Get a57400:36:36,930 --> 00:36:39,810mastodon account anywhere youwant to get a mastodon account,57500:36:39,810 --> 00:36:44,490because they're pretty easy toget now with all the press about57600:36:44,490 --> 00:36:47,040it. Is that is that? Is that theflow?57700:36:47,280 --> 00:36:50,160Yeah, that's basically it. Andit is getting easier for people57800:36:50,190 --> 00:36:53,850with adoption. So you would geta read only experience by57900:36:53,850 --> 00:36:57,390default, you can just scan andyou'll see whatever the comments58000:36:57,390 --> 00:37:00,810are. And somewhere in the UI,there'll be a login button. Or58100:37:00,810 --> 00:37:04,320maybe you press the Replybutton. And first it prompts you58200:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,690to log in, then it redirects youto the to our own inap. Macedon58300:37:09,690 --> 00:37:10,500login flow.58400:37:11,370 --> 00:37:12,150Beautiful.58500:37:14,370 --> 00:37:17,400Alex, what are you using foryour A gates at activity pub dot58600:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,700a gates.io? What? What is thebacking of that? Is that58700:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,070something you wrote? Or is thata Corona or what?58800:37:23,460 --> 00:37:28,830I wish I had time for that. Itwas Paul Romer. And then I moved58900:37:28,830 --> 00:37:34,020to a fork of it called rebased.Which is, it's very based in59000:37:34,020 --> 00:37:39,090soap boxes is, honestly, the UIis better than mastodon. So59100:37:40,350 --> 00:37:41,190definitely check it out.59200:37:41,759 --> 00:37:44,249Is it a multi user type thing?Or is that just sort of like a59300:37:44,249 --> 00:37:46,349single user instance type, do59400:37:46,560 --> 00:37:50,010my mind is single instance. Butby default, it's multi user. And59500:37:50,010 --> 00:37:52,650I'm posting on a $5 monthwindow.59600:37:53,820 --> 00:37:58,740Because the the started, wetalked last week about you know,59700:37:58,770 --> 00:38:03,240get sort of bridging some ofthese things over to just get59800:38:03,600 --> 00:38:08,310more, did just get more contentto start to start the just start59900:38:08,310 --> 00:38:12,990the activity post comment streamand kind of started outlining60000:38:12,990 --> 00:38:16,140that writing it out on paperthis week and looking at the60100:38:16,140 --> 00:38:21,810activity protocol. And I mean,really is coming, looking at60200:38:21,810 --> 00:38:27,330Mastodon it looks at the, theweaknesses and master the60300:38:27,330 --> 00:38:31,770Achilles heel. And if somebodyI'm sure there's more than one,60400:38:32,220 --> 00:38:36,810but to me, the big Achilles heelof Mastodon is this dependence60500:38:36,810 --> 00:38:41,430on sidekick for all thenotifications that happen that60600:38:41,970 --> 00:38:46,500that thing seems to be thereally the thing that kills that60700:38:46,500 --> 00:38:49,500kills it and makes it hardbecause you'll end up with, you60800:38:49,500 --> 00:38:54,480know, 10s of 1000s of queuedsidekick messages for all of60900:38:54,480 --> 00:38:57,270this activity that's going in,you know, when things start to61000:38:57,270 --> 00:39:01,500federate. And I feel like if youcould take that thing out and61100:39:01,500 --> 00:39:07,170make it where it was put it intoa more efficient language or a61200:39:07,170 --> 00:39:10,770more efficient structure. Thingswould be you could do it on a61300:39:10,770 --> 00:39:14,730much smaller scale without allthe huge overhead of Mastodon61400:39:17,430 --> 00:39:21,180Yeah, not to get too nerdy, butMacedon. The main difference61500:39:21,180 --> 00:39:26,070between messily on imploring forsupport Rama is Macedon doesn't61600:39:26,250 --> 00:39:30,210like us, it's its own internaldata structure, which61700:39:30,210 --> 00:39:33,720complicates thingssignificantly. Whereas the61800:39:33,720 --> 00:39:36,300simplest activitypubimplementations just store the61900:39:37,140 --> 00:39:39,630the JSON in the database and useit that way.62000:39:40,200 --> 00:39:44,100Yeah, cuz I was thinking youcould even do that with me. You62100:39:44,100 --> 00:39:50,040could even do it with justobject storage. I mean, to you62200:39:50,040 --> 00:39:52,380could go for I guess, onetransit, you could go far with62300:39:52,380 --> 00:39:57,150just object storage until youneeded to do the note the62400:39:57,150 --> 00:40:00,360federated notification, like youcan really put something62500:40:00,360 --> 00:40:04,500together. That's very, verylightweight. Which is what I'm62600:40:04,500 --> 00:40:09,480what I'm hoping to do. But theanyone just went went off the62700:40:09,480 --> 00:40:09,720rails.62800:40:10,500 --> 00:40:12,810I like it. You're fixingmastodon? That's a good idea.62900:40:13,500 --> 00:40:15,780Right? That's not?63000:40:16,949 --> 00:40:20,699Well, I mean, I'll just say thatwe federate heavily on podcasts63100:40:20,699 --> 00:40:25,499index dot social. All I do is Ipay Masto dot host a fee every63200:40:25,499 --> 00:40:29,549month, I pay them a little extrafor the amount of users and for63300:40:29,549 --> 00:40:34,739full site search. But you know,I've never seen has that thing63400:40:34,739 --> 00:40:37,889ever gone down really, I don'tthink I've ever seen an outage.63500:40:38,159 --> 00:40:42,929And it's Federation, everythingseems to work pretty well. So I63600:40:42,929 --> 00:40:46,079mean, if you're talking millionsand millions and millions of63700:40:46,079 --> 00:40:49,829people like Mastodon dot social,yeah, that's a whole different63800:40:49,859 --> 00:40:53,969whole different ball of wax. Butit seems like that wouldn't be63900:40:53,969 --> 00:40:57,449too much of an issue for forwhat we're doing here, would64000:40:57,449 --> 00:41:02,429it? But no, I think if you getthe, the way I understand it is64100:41:02,429 --> 00:41:07,799if you get somebody on your ownyour instance, who has, you64200:41:07,799 --> 00:41:10,079know, potentially a millionfollowers64300:41:10,110 --> 00:41:13,800waiting on your instance, whocertainly I'm going to post on64400:41:13,800 --> 00:41:16,410my own instance, isn't that theidea that the podcasters64500:41:16,410 --> 00:41:19,740responsible for either, youknow, getting their account64600:41:19,740 --> 00:41:22,500somewhere or, or setting uptheir own server?64700:41:22,980 --> 00:41:25,830Yes. Okay. What and yeah, andthat's what it's what I'm64800:41:25,830 --> 00:41:29,100talking about, sort of likeinter internal to, to Mastodon64900:41:29,100 --> 00:41:34,500itself. So, you can just imagineif you had an, let's say, if you65000:41:34,500 --> 00:41:39,270had a podcast that had that wasextremely popular, you know, and65100:41:39,270 --> 00:41:45,480had 10s of 1000s of followers,then it would be the same sort65200:41:45,510 --> 00:41:52,500of potential problem, as if youhad somebody like, I don't know,65300:41:52,920 --> 00:41:59,550Stephen Fry, who has 100,000followers on Mastodon, Mastodon65400:41:59,550 --> 00:42:04,890on the fediverse. Will. Nowevery time he posts, you're65500:42:04,890 --> 00:42:11,370gonna have notifications goingout in in the 1000s. As feta as65600:42:11,370 --> 00:42:15,270that federates. So that's,that's where you hit a snag with65700:42:15,270 --> 00:42:20,220Mastodon is that process takes ahuge amount of load that's65800:42:20,220 --> 00:42:24,360directly that's directly theability for the instance to65900:42:24,360 --> 00:42:28,080handle that is, is basicallyproportional to how much compute66000:42:28,080 --> 00:42:31,620it has. Because I don't thinkthat's a efficiently parallel66100:42:31,620 --> 00:42:32,310operation.66200:42:34,950 --> 00:42:39,000That said, it's a problem thatwould affect what like point66300:42:39,000 --> 00:42:43,17000 1% of podcasts who would beinterested in this sort of66400:42:43,170 --> 00:42:47,490feature. And assuming that youhave a big enough show, you can66500:42:47,550 --> 00:42:51,510solve scaling problems with moremoney and resources, I would66600:42:51,510 --> 00:42:51,930think66700:42:53,670 --> 00:42:59,820it's a good problem to have,honestly. And there are there66800:42:59,820 --> 00:43:03,450are actually ways to optimizeit. The people that critique it66900:43:03,480 --> 00:43:05,280generally don't know about theoptimizations.67000:43:07,889 --> 00:43:09,899Did that right, Alex?67100:43:10,320 --> 00:43:14,160So um, that's only really thecase. If, if each one of your 167200:43:14,160 --> 00:43:19,770million followers each has theirown instance. Because if you67300:43:19,770 --> 00:43:23,700have, you know, 500,000followers on one instance, you67400:43:23,700 --> 00:43:26,130know, that the activity popservers can generally optimize67500:43:26,130 --> 00:43:28,020that because they know thatthey're all at the same place.67600:43:28,860 --> 00:43:31,680Gotcha. Because you always youhave sort of a single inbox or67700:43:31,680 --> 00:43:32,100whatever.67800:43:32,700 --> 00:43:36,030Yeah, I mean, it's very, very,very similar to email in that67900:43:36,030 --> 00:43:40,140regard. Okay. But you're talkingabout like the Reply All68000:43:40,140 --> 00:43:41,670scenario, honestly. Which,68100:43:42,750 --> 00:43:46,170yeah, premature optimization.Sorry.68200:43:49,020 --> 00:43:51,630Okay, and I was gonna, I wasgoing to interject something68300:43:51,630 --> 00:43:55,440else, just to just to make itmore complicated. May I? Go68400:43:55,440 --> 00:44:00,930ahead. So the next question is,we have an app out there that is68500:44:00,930 --> 00:44:06,180doing lightning comments. Idon't know how these are68600:44:06,180 --> 00:44:09,660integrated. I find theminteresting. I don't know if68700:44:09,660 --> 00:44:13,710it's the same thing. All andthere's, you know, there's68800:44:13,740 --> 00:44:18,450questions and maybe we can'tsolve this here. But if I look68900:44:18,450 --> 00:44:23,190at my own booster grams, theyare pretty much comments69000:44:23,220 --> 00:44:25,410account, and certainly in thisshow, they're calm. It's always69100:44:25,410 --> 00:44:29,250a comment, actually, it's prettymuch always common, or nine out69200:44:29,250 --> 00:44:32,820of 10. Our comment, is thatsomething that we integrate into69300:44:32,820 --> 00:44:37,020this, is that something thatthat should and is separate, if69400:44:37,020 --> 00:44:40,350it is separate, how the heck dowe make it work on all apps69500:44:40,350 --> 00:44:44,070instead of just one? Is itsomething that we can consider69600:44:44,070 --> 00:44:45,930at all? I throw that out there?69700:44:47,489 --> 00:44:51,899Yeah, I mean, it's def, to me,it's definitely separate. And69800:44:51,899 --> 00:44:54,899that's, that's why I'm startingstarting to write the thing that69900:44:54,899 --> 00:45:00,299I'm running is to pull, pullthat over so that it can be so70000:45:00,299 --> 00:45:04,439that it can exist as an activitypub comment without having to70100:45:05,039 --> 00:45:08,759mix the two together so thatthey can keep their distinct to70200:45:08,789 --> 00:45:13,109their distinctiveness without,but but also use the fact that70300:45:13,109 --> 00:45:16,169people meet some people andpeople who will do do lightning70400:45:16,169 --> 00:45:21,659comments. I mean, it's part offounds a popular app. And so70500:45:21,869 --> 00:45:27,029people who do that are they doit a lot. So that's a lot of70600:45:27,029 --> 00:45:30,479content. So if we could use thatkind of, if we could use those70700:45:30,479 --> 00:45:36,749comments, to pollinate, youknow, the activity pub route70800:45:36,749 --> 00:45:41,369post, I mean, that's, that'swhat I'm trying to do, I want to70900:45:41,369 --> 00:45:44,279mix the two, I just don't wantto mix the two together, like on71000:45:44,279 --> 00:45:45,869it on the technical side,71100:45:47,280 --> 00:45:49,830if I could try to explain myunderstanding of this problem.71200:45:49,830 --> 00:45:54,300So lightening comments existwithin the metadata that is71300:45:54,330 --> 00:45:57,930transmitted in the lightning,the Bitcoin Lightning Network.71400:45:58,290 --> 00:46:02,160And it works. For most usecases, if you want to send a71500:46:02,160 --> 00:46:07,500short message to a podcaster, itcan generally fit within the71600:46:07,860 --> 00:46:11,040metadata that's sent. However,Lightning Network also has71700:46:11,070 --> 00:46:13,200something beyond myunderstanding that involves71800:46:13,230 --> 00:46:17,850onion routing, which leads to anunpredictable amount of71900:46:17,850 --> 00:46:22,440characters that you're allowedto send with a message. And for72000:46:22,440 --> 00:46:25,620a messaging platform, that's avery, that's a very big72100:46:25,620 --> 00:46:30,900limitation. So in pod verse, Forexample, we say a limit of 40072200:46:30,900 --> 00:46:35,340characters in your booster gram.But that's just a guess I can't72300:46:35,340 --> 00:46:39,570predict how many characters youactually have before it'll get72400:46:39,570 --> 00:46:43,140cut cut off, because apparently,as the transaction is sent72500:46:43,140 --> 00:46:47,820between different nodes, if I'msaying that right, each address72600:46:47,820 --> 00:46:51,900will get concatenated in themessage, so we can't predict how72700:46:51,900 --> 00:46:57,630much room we have to send. Sothat is one major limitation of72800:46:57,630 --> 00:47:04,800a purely Lightning Network basedchat, or commenting system.72900:47:06,330 --> 00:47:09,750Whereas something like activityPub is designed for this73000:47:09,750 --> 00:47:13,500purpose. And we can reliably useit.73100:47:13,949 --> 00:47:17,249Right? So this is where if Iunderstand Alex, you had ideas73200:47:17,249 --> 00:47:21,179about separating that out andhaving the message being maybe73300:47:21,179 --> 00:47:25,049still carried in the TLB or not,but I know you've got something73400:47:25,289 --> 00:47:25,919in mind.73500:47:28,050 --> 00:47:31,440Yeah, basically, there's waysbuilt into both activity pub and73600:47:31,440 --> 00:47:37,170lightning to one activity pubextend the specification, which73700:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,710is non trivial, just want tomake that clear, upfront. But73800:47:40,980 --> 00:47:44,010long term, we can add things tothese, you know, activity by73900:47:44,010 --> 00:47:47,910messengers. If we're you know,if the work of Macedon or74000:47:47,910 --> 00:47:52,860whatever to do, so we can, wecan attempt that. What we, what74100:47:52,860 --> 00:47:56,820we do is, we would essentiallyattach what I'm calling a74200:47:56,820 --> 00:48:00,360payment proof proof of payment,which would work with any74300:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,720system, not just lightning. ButLightning has a way to sign74400:48:03,720 --> 00:48:05,970messages. I mean, you can gointo your lightning node and do74500:48:05,970 --> 00:48:12,690it right now. And what we can dois define a specification to a74600:48:12,690 --> 00:48:17,670predefined message format, thatsays, hey, I paid this amount to74700:48:17,670 --> 00:48:22,260this person does address andhere's my mind, you can write74800:48:22,260 --> 00:48:25,410and you can attach that to youractivity blog post, they could74900:48:25,410 --> 00:48:30,060all cryptographically sign soyou can prove who it is. And we75000:48:30,060 --> 00:48:33,630have to work on ways ofverifying that's accurate. But75100:48:33,900 --> 00:48:37,620that's I think it's the best wayforward, even if it wasn't75200:48:37,620 --> 00:48:42,090actually I think the proof ofpayment or concept is important75300:48:42,090 --> 00:48:45,420to just get get speech out of75400:48:46,110 --> 00:48:50,580payments. So maybe baby stepsversus what I'm hearing. Yeah,75500:48:50,580 --> 00:48:50,730we75600:48:50,730 --> 00:48:53,880can I mean, at first, we'llprobably just say, hey, this75700:48:53,880 --> 00:48:58,200person boosted this amount andyou know, it can be faked. But75800:48:58,530 --> 00:49:01,200you know, that's a long wayaway.75900:49:02,040 --> 00:49:05,490Yeah, I'm Hope I mean, hopefullythis hopefully this bridge work76000:49:05,490 --> 00:49:09,930will become something willbecome that you know, so that we76100:49:09,930 --> 00:49:13,140can Hey as Okay, these things,these things are coming over76200:49:13,650 --> 00:49:16,320these comments that originatedas lightning comments are coming76300:49:16,320 --> 00:49:21,180over here. Okay, now they'recoming over as activity pub. Now76400:49:21,210 --> 00:49:26,460logical next step. Let's havethem as let's split the76500:49:26,460 --> 00:49:30,240activity, pub comment and thepayment and then add proof, add76600:49:30,240 --> 00:49:35,580the proof of payment. And then,you know, and then actually make76700:49:35,610 --> 00:49:39,360the split over time. I mean,that to me that makes makes76800:49:39,360 --> 00:49:41,730logical sense as a as a sort ofa roadmap.76900:49:41,820 --> 00:49:47,040So we got a 10,000 stat boostfrom Sam Sethi, who doesn't know77000:49:47,040 --> 00:49:50,400him, and Sam says pod fans,which is his super secret77100:49:50,400 --> 00:49:54,720project, which is now justboosting about openly is working77200:49:54,720 --> 00:49:58,080to make itself a mastodonclient. We already support the77300:49:58,080 --> 00:50:06,300activity stream standard ie Xverb object, we can see, the ad77400:50:06,300 --> 00:50:09,390says, We can post on behalf ofthe user, when they comment on77500:50:09,390 --> 00:50:12,120pod fans, the difference betweena comment and a booster gram is77600:50:12,150 --> 00:50:16,140only the payment part. So thathe's already thinking along the77700:50:16,140 --> 00:50:19,860same the same line. So it willbe great if we can get pod verse77800:50:20,100 --> 00:50:24,060and, and maybe pod fans andmaybe one other to support the77900:50:24,060 --> 00:50:27,240cross app comments to surfacethose? I tell you, I will78000:50:27,240 --> 00:50:28,470promote the crap out of it.78100:50:30,239 --> 00:50:32,759Sure, well, we're interested init. And Alex and I have talked78200:50:32,759 --> 00:50:38,549about it quite a bit with is aJSON payment token spec. And I78300:50:38,549 --> 00:50:41,639think it can happen in parallelwith lightning comments as they78400:50:41,639 --> 00:50:44,759exist today. Lightning comments,just they have their78500:50:44,759 --> 00:50:47,459limitations, because it's notintended, intended to be a78600:50:47,459 --> 00:50:52,919messaging system. But there's noreason we couldn't send the78700:50:52,919 --> 00:50:55,649message to two placessimultaneously, we can include78800:50:55,649 --> 00:50:59,969the message in the booster gramlightning data. And we could78900:50:59,969 --> 00:51:04,229also post the message toactivity pub at the same time.79000:51:04,619 --> 00:51:10,109And I think the featureadvantages of activity pub over79100:51:10,109 --> 00:51:15,269enough time would allow it toreplace strict dependency on,79200:51:15,599 --> 00:51:18,209you know, the Lightning Network,which isn't intended for this79300:51:18,209 --> 00:51:21,479purpose. Alright, for thispurpose,79400:51:22,110 --> 00:51:22,950I like79500:51:22,950 --> 00:51:27,450it. The simplest solution forfor fountain would be to just79600:51:28,110 --> 00:51:31,650post a message on server andpost the lightning comments as79700:51:31,680 --> 00:51:33,090messages for those users.79800:51:34,290 --> 00:51:41,730That is, yeah, that is a goodidea. As I wonder, I wonder if79900:51:42,000 --> 00:51:44,550Oscars thought about doing that,because that's, that's a good80000:51:44,550 --> 00:51:53,640solution. The Mitch, I guess youhad brought something up a while80100:51:53,640 --> 00:51:56,340back, and I hadn't written downhere to talk to ask you about it80200:51:56,340 --> 00:52:03,660was the you said you were havingtrouble with the shim aspect of80300:52:03,840 --> 00:52:08,280of the podcaster wallet stuff.And I think it was specifically80400:52:08,280 --> 00:52:12,480related to Episode level splits.Can you run through that real80500:52:12,480 --> 00:52:14,550quick, because I want to makesure that I'm not leaving you80600:52:14,550 --> 00:52:15,450hanging on something?80700:52:16,230 --> 00:52:21,900Sure. So as a podcast app, weget all of our data from RSS.80800:52:22,350 --> 00:52:26,430It's the adopted standardprovides all of the show80900:52:26,430 --> 00:52:30,690information that every podcastapp needs to give the full81000:52:30,690 --> 00:52:36,660experience all the features thatthat podcast has. Now with the81100:52:36,690 --> 00:52:44,520value tag, you guys have createdthe monster that the shim is the81200:52:44,820 --> 00:52:46,080gentler word81300:52:47,220 --> 00:52:49,500that you get, you can replace aletter in there if you wants to.81400:52:51,989 --> 00:52:56,669Which is a temporary stand in,which allows people to get the81500:52:56,669 --> 00:53:00,809same experience as if they addedtheir podcast value tagged to81600:53:00,809 --> 00:53:03,629their RSS feed, but it'sactually hosted is it podcast81700:53:03,629 --> 00:53:04,499index is that81800:53:04,500 --> 00:53:07,500it's in the AP is in this comesout of the AICPA API, right.81900:53:07,950 --> 00:53:08,580Yeah, that's right.82000:53:09,150 --> 00:53:14,430Right. So what we have to do, wehave to add an extra step in our82100:53:14,460 --> 00:53:19,230database in our API and parsingsystem, so that we request from82200:53:19,500 --> 00:53:24,330podcasts index, the value taginformation for every podcast,82300:53:25,050 --> 00:53:30,660that's fine for now, like, andit I think there's like 10,000,82400:53:30,750 --> 00:53:33,840podcasts or something, which ispretty cool. There's that many82500:53:34,590 --> 00:53:39,540that support it. Now, if we wantto apply that to episodes, we82600:53:39,540 --> 00:53:43,740have to also scrape that datafrom podcast index for every82700:53:43,740 --> 00:53:47,550episode. So now that you know ifthere's like 100 episodes per82800:53:47,550 --> 00:53:51,930podcast, now we're at a millionpoints of information, we have82900:53:51,930 --> 00:53:57,270to scrape from an API. If thatwas in the RSS feed itself, we83000:53:57,270 --> 00:54:01,050wouldn't have to even go topodcast index for this purpose.83100:54:01,260 --> 00:54:04,680So I think it makes a lot ofsense that the shim has been83200:54:04,680 --> 00:54:08,880used to get lift off with thisfeature. But it is something we83300:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,780would want to move away fromrather than consolidating this83400:54:12,780 --> 00:54:16,320dependency on the API for thisinformation. And it seems like83500:54:16,320 --> 00:54:18,930RSS hosts are increasinglyadopting.83600:54:19,380 --> 00:54:25,170So the, the whole concept of ashim is is exactly what the word83700:54:25,170 --> 00:54:30,030means. It's just a temporary fixto because we were very83800:54:30,030 --> 00:54:33,180skeptical about doing this atall, but we wanted to launch and83900:54:33,180 --> 00:54:37,140get the get the value for valuesystem running, which is very84000:54:37,140 --> 00:54:44,700successful. It's 10,780 podcastson reading here. So question84100:54:44,700 --> 00:54:52,920number one is so I know youmaintain your own database you84200:54:52,920 --> 00:54:55,980read from your own database.What is exactly the reason84300:54:55,980 --> 00:54:58,470behind because you're one of thefew I think, who does that?84400:54:58,470 --> 00:55:03,060Maybe I'm wrong, but it seemslike You know, you're, like84500:55:03,060 --> 00:55:05,700you're unique in in having yourown database84600:55:06,509 --> 00:55:10,889that does well, for a lot of the2.0 apps. I think that's true.84700:55:11,069 --> 00:55:15,359Well, I mean, we existed before2.0 was even a thing. So we84800:55:15,359 --> 00:55:18,779needed to have our owninfrastructure for a podcast84900:55:18,779 --> 00:55:23,279database. And we decided to keepit because just in case, there85000:55:23,279 --> 00:55:26,819are other features that we wantto support that potentially, the85100:55:26,819 --> 00:55:30,809index doesn't support, and alsojust for resilience, I guess,85200:55:31,439 --> 00:55:34,559and to be able to supportourselves, you know, in a self85300:55:34,559 --> 00:55:37,679hosted way, if for whateverreason, the index wouldn't be85400:55:37,679 --> 00:55:42,899available. So currently, we haveour own standalone parsing RSS85500:55:42,899 --> 00:55:46,679parsing system and database. Butwe also sync with the podcast85600:55:46,679 --> 00:55:53,009index regularly to get feedupdate notifications, or if a85700:55:53,009 --> 00:55:57,389new feed was added or deleted.So we sync continuously,85800:55:57,420 --> 00:56:02,370but But you don't you don't youcan't sync the the value block85900:56:02,370 --> 00:56:03,060information.86000:56:03,659 --> 00:56:07,529We could, it's definitelypossible. It's just there's, for86100:56:07,529 --> 00:56:11,819the episode, specifically, we dosupport podcast level. So to be86200:56:11,819 --> 00:56:17,369clear, if it's in the if it usespodcasts or wallet, we provide86300:56:17,549 --> 00:56:20,669the value tag information forthe podcast level, we don't86400:56:20,669 --> 00:56:26,009provide the episode. So showspecific splits, we can do that86500:56:26,039 --> 00:56:27,929it will be more work for us todo that.86600:56:28,949 --> 00:56:32,429So hold on a second. So if if Iput you guys in the value block,86700:56:32,429 --> 00:56:36,029which I'm which of course we dowith all of our guests, you will86800:56:36,029 --> 00:56:38,159actually not get that if someoneuses pod verse.86900:56:38,820 --> 00:56:43,380If you have it in the RSS feed,which I think you do, of course,87000:56:43,380 --> 00:56:48,240yes, then we do support it. Wewe have just prioritized native87100:56:48,330 --> 00:56:52,980RSS support over the episodelevel API integration, it's87200:56:52,980 --> 00:56:57,060entirely possible, it justeither will require a much87300:56:57,060 --> 00:57:04,530larger syncing operation, maybeon a daily basis, with the index87400:57:05,220 --> 00:57:10,680for on the fly in an app, wemake a request to podcasts index87500:57:10,680 --> 00:57:15,000and say, you know, this personjust tried to play this episode,87600:57:15,270 --> 00:57:19,710before playing it grab the valueinformation, which which is87700:57:19,710 --> 00:57:23,310fine, but it's you know, it'sit's more interaction that has87800:57:23,310 --> 00:57:26,580to happen, potentially morewaiting time for a network87900:57:26,580 --> 00:57:29,790request. So it's not ourpreferred approach88000:57:30,000 --> 00:57:35,280would it would have helpedMitch, if I published, if I just88100:57:35,280 --> 00:57:42,030dumped all of that episode leveldata out into just a big, just a88200:57:42,030 --> 00:57:45,360big file. And you know, just didit every, I don't know, five88300:57:45,360 --> 00:57:49,260minutes or so. That wassomething, grab something once88400:57:49,260 --> 00:57:51,060and not have to be, you know,polling88500:57:51,989 --> 00:57:55,349yet that something like thatcould definitely help. Okay,88600:57:55,469 --> 00:57:59,009it's a solvable problem on ourend with the existing resources.88700:57:59,579 --> 00:58:03,239I just like to nudge peopletowards being aware that these88800:58:03,239 --> 00:58:06,959limitations exist. And this ispart of the reason why you would88900:58:06,989 --> 00:58:10,139want to prefer to have it inRSS.89000:58:12,179 --> 00:58:15,899Ultimately, ultimately, we allwant it to be an RSS, but that's89100:58:15,899 --> 00:58:18,749just going to take another fiveyears, I can tell you right now,89200:58:18,749 --> 00:58:21,839it's just gonna take a whilebefore everybody before89300:58:21,839 --> 00:58:25,259everybody has that. That's justthe nature of the beast. I think89400:58:25,290 --> 00:58:28,740it's been so hard just to evenget people to transfer. Yeah.89500:58:28,740 --> 00:58:29,160Oh, yeah.89600:58:29,159 --> 00:58:32,549It's been great now, Mitch, bythe way, congratulations. With89700:58:32,549 --> 00:58:36,239all of the releases, you've beendoing all the bug fixes. OPO,89800:58:36,239 --> 00:58:39,659OPML import works. Again, it'sbeen fantastic. I'm on graphene89900:58:39,659 --> 00:58:43,439OS which is an oddball thing.I'm still don't worry about it,90000:58:43,439 --> 00:58:46,739I'm still having issues. Fromtime to time it forgets that90100:58:46,769 --> 00:58:50,099it's connected to the Albeawallet. I'm not sure what the90200:58:50,099 --> 00:58:54,839problem is. But I wouldn't worryabout it too much a live issue90300:58:54,839 --> 00:58:59,039that is cropping up on lit. Andit's weird, because you're the90400:58:59,039 --> 00:59:02,969guy that that has all of thesefeatures that are so exciting.90500:59:02,969 --> 00:59:05,639You've got notifications forwhen a show goes live on, you90600:59:05,639 --> 00:59:08,789know, unplugging the heck out ofpod verse. So of course I have a90700:59:08,789 --> 00:59:12,809vested interest on asking abouta couple things that are our90800:59:12,809 --> 00:59:18,689little troublesome or that arebugs. And the big one is images.90900:59:19,049 --> 00:59:24,179For lit. There seems to be somecaching going on. And like when91000:59:24,179 --> 00:59:30,239I if I do no agenda, and I dothe lit hits the pod paying91100:59:30,239 --> 00:59:36,269everything flows, it'll pop up.And I'll see on the live bot on91200:59:36,299 --> 00:59:39,029Mastodon it will have thecorrect image but the91300:59:39,029 --> 00:59:45,719notification and sometimes eventhe actual image on the on the91400:59:45,749 --> 00:59:49,559live on the Live episode will bethe older image. Is there a way91500:59:49,559 --> 00:59:51,989I can bust that cache andthere's something that I can do.91600:59:53,429 --> 00:59:58,949It's difficult I'll have to lookinto that more the it there91700:59:58,949 --> 01:00:00,929could be caching things thatThey're out of our control at91801:00:00,929 --> 01:00:06,299the time that a feed is parsedand also when the user plays the91901:00:06,299 --> 01:00:08,189show. So if they get anotification, they immediately92001:00:08,189 --> 01:00:11,819press play, whatever image wehave at that moment is going to92101:00:11,819 --> 01:00:16,379hang around in the player andnot correct itself. Magically,92201:00:16,589 --> 01:00:20,789if unless, you know, but maybe15 minutes later, we reparse and92301:00:20,789 --> 01:00:25,079we get the correct image thatcan work, I will have to look92401:00:25,079 --> 01:00:30,779into it more. And if this islike a finer, finer tuning,92501:00:31,319 --> 01:00:35,369something we lack is maybe agood environment to run our own92601:00:35,369 --> 01:00:40,349tests like this with to be ableto reproduce the steps that the92701:00:40,349 --> 01:00:46,109podcasters are using. So thesesorts of bugs can can crop in92801:00:46,109 --> 01:00:48,659there, because in my tests, it'sworking fine. But I'm doing a92901:00:48,659 --> 01:00:53,699much more limited test, then.You know, in the case of no93001:00:53,699 --> 01:00:54,239agenda.93101:00:57,660 --> 01:01:02,790Alex, what what do you are yousupporting live pod pings in93201:01:02,790 --> 01:01:03,570peer tube yet?93301:01:05,520 --> 01:01:11,100No, which is I know very ironic,supporting live, live episodes,93401:01:11,130 --> 01:01:14,430live streams. But I've done allthe work in general with93501:01:14,430 --> 01:01:16,200ParaType is to allow that tohappen.93601:01:17,279 --> 01:01:18,809That's part of your RSS work.93701:01:20,190 --> 01:01:21,660And part of the plugin work.93801:01:22,680 --> 01:01:25,650Okay, I just wondered how youwere planning on? Like, do you93901:01:25,650 --> 01:01:28,740have a strategy for that forbecause caching is just always94001:01:28,800 --> 01:01:31,890it is, you know, one of thefundamental issues? Do you kind94101:01:31,890 --> 01:01:34,020of have a theoretical idea ofhow you're going to handle that94201:01:34,050 --> 01:01:35,070with images and such.94301:01:35,100 --> 01:01:37,140And I've already got, I'vealready got the handle.94401:01:37,950 --> 01:01:41,220Basically, whenever the livestate changes on a video live94501:01:41,220 --> 01:01:48,270stream, I'm clearing the cache.It lives in the server side. So94601:01:48,300 --> 01:01:51,300where are you what what kind ofcaching do you use? Is it behind94701:01:51,330 --> 01:01:52,020a CDN94801:01:52,440 --> 01:01:56,520now appear to be using a builtin cache in memory cache? So94901:01:56,520 --> 01:01:58,650basically, it doesn't have torecreate the RSS feed every95001:01:58,650 --> 01:02:03,810request. So to me, Misha, itsounds like a race condition95101:02:03,990 --> 01:02:06,330where you might be sending thenotification before you finish95201:02:06,330 --> 01:02:06,900parsing.95301:02:10,080 --> 01:02:14,190Possibly, I think in thesequence of things, it's95401:02:14,190 --> 01:02:17,340supposed to wait to send thenotification until after that,95501:02:17,340 --> 01:02:20,400but you know, there's lines ofcode for me to the way that95601:02:20,400 --> 01:02:21,000we're all through95701:02:21,030 --> 01:02:26,310the place, you can see itperfectly is in 100%, retro the95801:02:26,310 --> 01:02:30,360live stream, which by the way,is phenomenal how it works. And95901:02:30,390 --> 01:02:34,710Dave, thank you so much forcoding up their their electronic96001:02:34,710 --> 01:02:38,610programming guide. So I getabout 10 lit notifications a96101:02:38,610 --> 01:02:42,030day. And it's for the show, andit's always the wrong image.96201:02:42,030 --> 01:02:45,990Sometimes it's the same imagefor several hours. So it's96301:02:46,020 --> 01:02:49,380whatever in general, I know,this is a problem with podcast96401:02:49,380 --> 01:02:58,710apps. I think podcast addicts. Imean, I see people who are who96501:02:58,710 --> 01:03:02,970will tweet out an episode andit's an image from three months96601:03:02,970 --> 01:03:08,730ago. I mean, there's even thoughit was in the spec to be able to96701:03:08,730 --> 01:03:13,980have different channel levelimages, item level images, it96801:03:13,980 --> 01:03:16,470really never got the attentionthat it should have. Because96901:03:16,470 --> 01:03:19,230most people don't do that. But Ithink more people would do it,97001:03:19,410 --> 01:03:22,890if they can see if they actuallysee the result of it changing on97101:03:22,890 --> 01:03:27,000a regular basis. It's just it'sa general issue. And any way we97201:03:27,000 --> 01:03:29,730can resolve that would be great.It's just it's too bad because97301:03:29,730 --> 01:03:31,470everything else worksbeautifully.97401:03:32,400 --> 01:03:35,340Sure, I wasn't even aware that100% Retro didn't always have97501:03:35,340 --> 01:03:39,570the right image artwork. Sothat's a great test case that I97601:03:39,570 --> 01:03:39,930can.97701:03:40,860 --> 01:03:42,960Yeah, that's actually reallygood. Because it rolls like97801:03:42,960 --> 01:03:46,770every two hours, but anything,any man, I'd be happy to do any97901:03:46,770 --> 01:03:49,380any type of test anything that Ican help with anytime.98001:03:50,070 --> 01:03:52,950Tell me what you want. Mitch, Ican always make adjustments to98101:03:52,950 --> 01:03:55,590that feed generator, becauseit's real simplistic. So if you98201:03:55,590 --> 01:03:58,110want me to test different, likecache busting, or whatever I98301:03:58,110 --> 01:03:59,970can, maybe that will help youpinpoint where the issue98401:03:59,970 --> 01:04:05,850is. Okay, if the image alwayshas a different URL, I would98501:04:05,850 --> 01:04:11,520expect us to always get theright image. So I doubt that98601:04:11,520 --> 01:04:15,960100% Retro was using the sameimage URL and alternating the98701:04:16,050 --> 01:04:16,710image.98801:04:16,980 --> 01:04:18,900Well, they would know becausethey98901:04:19,139 --> 01:04:23,699know it's not it's a differentit's a different URL. Yeah, it's99001:04:23,699 --> 01:04:27,269a different URL. But yeah, we'llwork together on it. See if we99101:04:27,269 --> 01:04:27,869can figure it out.99201:04:29,400 --> 01:04:34,290Cool. Oh, 100% retro, by theway, it's great. Because it's99301:04:34,290 --> 01:04:37,200like my sanity check. BecauseI'm subscribed to notifications99401:04:37,200 --> 01:04:40,470for it. And late in the night,if I'm like, worried, how is our99501:04:40,500 --> 01:04:43,770live stream still working? Socan I see all these99601:04:43,770 --> 01:04:44,490notifications?99701:04:44,520 --> 01:04:48,840A little anecdote? No. So thisis just a guy I know, from 10099801:04:48,840 --> 01:04:52,080years ago, he's in Belgium, he'sput all his own money into this.99901:04:52,080 --> 01:04:55,800He has, you know, some investorsand so now he's now he always100001:04:55,800 --> 01:04:59,190planned to go down theadvertising route. So he's he's100101:04:59,190 --> 01:05:03,000finally a opened up advertising.And of course, a new stream100201:05:03,000 --> 01:05:05,910without any marketing, you know,these he's gonna have to do some100301:05:05,910 --> 01:05:09,540marketing to get people tolisten. But just as an anecdote,100401:05:09,930 --> 01:05:15,420in the first month of himrunning with ads, he actually100501:05:15,420 --> 01:05:19,320made more money with value forvalue streaming. Even though100601:05:19,320 --> 01:05:23,100it's from me you I thinkCleveland may boost it from time100701:05:23,100 --> 01:05:27,090to time Dave probably heactually made more money and it100801:05:27,090 --> 01:05:30,210was more exciting to everybodyto see the money coming in. In100901:05:30,210 --> 01:05:34,980real time, he just got a an lblb wallet hooked up to it, it101001:05:34,980 --> 01:05:36,960was really is really quiteinteresting to see that we're101101:05:36,960 --> 01:05:40,860shaking asked there. It's reallynice. Speaking of which, of101201:05:40,860 --> 01:05:43,800kicking ass, Dave, if I may,just to interrupt the101301:05:43,800 --> 01:05:50,250conversation for a moment. Is itpossible to hand off some of the101401:05:50,250 --> 01:05:54,630incoming stuff that you dealwith? Because I saw your you101501:05:54,630 --> 01:05:59,220said, Hey, I actually spend moretime with email with podcast101601:05:59,250 --> 01:06:03,180index than anything else. Is itpossible to hand off something101701:06:03,180 --> 01:06:07,590so that I can help reparse afeed when someone hits I get the101801:06:07,590 --> 01:06:09,990same emails, but I really don'tknow what to do or how to help.101901:06:09,990 --> 01:06:15,870One is, I need you to removethis one. Because I'm now here.102001:06:16,200 --> 01:06:20,490The other one is, not all myepisodes are showing up. Are102101:06:20,490 --> 01:06:23,970there things that you can handoff to me or and I'm really102201:06:23,970 --> 01:06:27,600available for that, or any otherperson so we can alleviate some102301:06:27,600 --> 01:06:30,150of that, because it's anincredible waste of your time.102401:06:30,450 --> 01:06:34,290And I I really, I'm happy to doanything. I mean, I can I can102501:06:34,290 --> 01:06:37,950perform commands, you know, justtell me what to do. And I can I102601:06:37,950 --> 01:06:40,950can make stuff happen. Iseriously, I mean this, I hate102701:06:40,950 --> 01:06:43,890that you're bogged down by that.I mean, I was able to wrangle102801:06:43,890 --> 01:06:46,440the takedown notice out of yourhands, like except that you102901:06:46,440 --> 01:06:48,750shouldn't be dealing with thatcrap. But he's more on let me do103001:06:48,750 --> 01:06:49,080that.103101:06:49,620 --> 01:06:54,030Man I appreciate it's just it'sone of those things, like, you103201:06:54,030 --> 01:06:58,080know, like, with all projectslike this, you have, you have,103301:06:58,680 --> 01:07:03,450you can solve the issue bywriting the software that allows103401:07:03,450 --> 01:07:07,440people to help. But thatrequires hours and hours of work103501:07:07,440 --> 01:07:10,770to write the software to allowpeople to help. So it's just,103601:07:10,860 --> 01:07:13,530you know, you get in this catch22, where you're like, Okay, do103701:07:13,530 --> 01:07:16,560you? Do you spend all this timewriting the tool that's gonna103801:07:16,560 --> 01:07:20,370save you time later? Or do youjust do the thing now and get on103901:07:20,370 --> 01:07:23,880with it? And so, I mean, at somepoint, I'll just have to buckle104001:07:23,880 --> 01:07:26,130down and solve this problem,which is kind of what I'm having104101:07:26,130 --> 01:07:30,870to do with the API at themoment. Because, you know, after104201:07:30,870 --> 01:07:34,230looking at what happened thismorning, you know, it's it's104301:07:34,230 --> 01:07:38,070just, there's things, there'stechnical debt that goes back,104401:07:38,100 --> 01:07:43,980literally all the way to freedomcontroller, August of 2020. We104501:07:43,980 --> 01:07:48,720win, wait, you know, when Irolled the API in six weeks,104601:07:48,750 --> 01:07:52,020right, and so like, there'sthings that that I still have to104701:07:52,020 --> 01:07:57,060crawl out from under for that.And that's just, it's just kind104801:07:57,060 --> 01:08:01,530of it's time for that stuff tohappen. So yeah, I mean, I'll,104901:08:01,650 --> 01:08:07,140yeah, it's solve that issue atsome point. But I mean,105001:08:07,889 --> 01:08:11,399or how about this? How aboutthis? How about when those105101:08:11,399 --> 01:08:15,929requests come in, we set up aprocess, where I make sure that105201:08:15,929 --> 01:08:19,619these people get a reply andtell them that it's in the queue105301:08:19,649 --> 01:08:23,369and will be on the way, and thenyou can just, you know, there's105401:08:23,369 --> 01:08:26,159a stack that comes in, and youcan deal with it whenever you105501:08:26,159 --> 01:08:30,629want. I mean, anything to getyou out of the out of the105601:08:30,659 --> 01:08:33,989squirrel moment of oh, yes. Ifsomeone wants this, Oh, someone105701:08:33,989 --> 01:08:37,469wants that, you know, just evenif it's just to say, you know,105801:08:37,499 --> 01:08:41,519expect, expect your answer in 48hours or whatever, you know,105901:08:41,519 --> 01:08:42,809something that we can do. It'sjust,106001:08:43,230 --> 01:08:46,860it's now I was grumpy because Ijust dug out of like, you know,106101:08:46,860 --> 01:08:50,520over 100 emails of having to gothrough there. So, but no, I106201:08:50,520 --> 01:08:53,460need I need Mitch his brother.That's who I need. I just need106301:08:53,460 --> 01:08:55,440to forward all my emails toMichel's brother.106401:08:56,130 --> 01:08:58,020Wait a minute, am I missingsomething here,106501:08:58,170 --> 01:09:03,540but my calendar helps, Kylehelps. With a lot of day to day106601:09:03,540 --> 01:09:06,840I throw basically all kinds ofdifferent tasks at him. We try106701:09:06,840 --> 01:09:10,800to respond to people within oneto two business days. And most106801:09:10,800 --> 01:09:14,160of the requests we get throughare for related to podcasts106901:09:14,160 --> 01:09:18,870request, either a feed ismissing, or the feed hasn't been107001:09:18,870 --> 01:09:22,680parsed for recently for onereason or another. And those are107101:09:22,680 --> 01:09:25,590things we want to be able torespond to immediately. And107201:09:25,590 --> 01:09:28,650they're pretty easy to do. Butyou know, when I'm constantly107301:09:28,650 --> 01:09:32,190doing programming problems, itgets to be quite a burden to be107401:09:32,400 --> 01:09:34,440replying to all these. So I'mjust107501:09:34,439 --> 01:09:36,479gonna have a T shirt that saystalk to Kyle.107601:09:38,220 --> 01:09:42,570You correspond with him quite abit. I don't know I could ask if107701:09:42,570 --> 01:09:45,810he's if his services areavailable to get a price.107801:09:47,460 --> 01:09:49,710I literally offered the samething for free.107901:09:52,020 --> 01:09:55,320I think Dave needs a ticketingsystem and you have to find SLAs108001:09:55,860 --> 01:10:02,190SLAs we know the ticketingsystem. Alex's is you get an108101:10:02,190 --> 01:10:05,370auto reply that says, Here'syour ticket number and then just108201:10:05,370 --> 01:10:07,050nothing ever happens. Please108301:10:09,150 --> 01:10:11,730get a ticket number I read theriot act to someone the other108401:10:11,730 --> 01:10:12,210day.108501:10:12,840 --> 01:10:16,110You did. Yeah, I'm in an emailbox like, hey, stop being rude.108601:10:16,170 --> 01:10:19,650Yeah, Dick, cuz you were like,Oh, looks like your feed is part108701:10:19,680 --> 01:10:23,490really Dave, who really are allthe episodes in really? Have you108801:10:23,490 --> 01:10:27,750checked it out? Now I'm addingthe emphasis of the voice that I108901:10:27,750 --> 01:10:28,710heard at the time,109001:10:29,010 --> 01:10:32,250he taursus slave level agreementSLA,109101:10:32,310 --> 01:10:35,610he did come back and said, Oh,man, I didn't know you guys were109201:10:35,610 --> 01:10:39,240just volunteers and I positionedat something like that. Oh, I'm109301:10:39,240 --> 01:10:43,020sorry about that. But ingeneral, the attitude that109401:10:43,020 --> 01:10:48,360people have about how technologyworks sometimes gets me very,109501:10:48,360 --> 01:10:52,560very angry. And I had a veryshitty experience and it was all109601:10:52,560 --> 01:10:57,600my fault. Where you know, theshow that Tina and I do curry in109701:10:57,600 --> 01:11:01,140the keeper going to keep her.comEverybody, which is which we109801:11:01,140 --> 01:11:04,740only accept value for valuethrough podcasting. 2.0. And of109901:11:04,740 --> 01:11:07,170course, people send us bottlesof wine. So okay, well, Oh,110001:11:07,170 --> 01:11:11,910crap, we'll have to take that.But, you know, I've always said110101:11:12,900 --> 01:11:16,110they have to read theinstructions that the app gives110201:11:16,110 --> 01:11:21,660them. And I could always tellby, you know, and so people will110301:11:22,050 --> 01:11:25,320message Tina on Instagram,there's a very unsophisticated110401:11:25,320 --> 01:11:28,380users. And they're like, Okay,we really want to do it, and110501:11:28,380 --> 01:11:31,860we're really motivated, but wecan't figure it out. And I was110601:11:31,860 --> 01:11:34,740like, they have to read I cantell they're not reading and110701:11:34,740 --> 01:11:38,850people don't read. You'll neverget them to read. But then I110801:11:38,850 --> 01:11:42,090said, Tina, why don't we sitdown and we'll go through you110901:11:42,090 --> 01:11:44,340have not been through theprocess yourself. You have not111001:11:44,340 --> 01:11:48,510set up a podcast app boughtBitcoin, put it in figured out111101:11:48,510 --> 01:11:53,190how to get it onto lightning andand then actually boost to show111201:11:53,250 --> 01:11:55,440that she's okay. This is a goodidea because it was it was111301:11:55,650 --> 01:11:58,950causing tension between usbecause I get all huffy, like,111401:11:58,980 --> 01:12:01,710oh, people don't read. Theydon't care. And they don't they111501:12:01,710 --> 01:12:04,920don't we just have to admitthat. And so she's like, well,111601:12:04,920 --> 01:12:08,130you know, they don't understandthey're just trying to help. So111701:12:08,130 --> 01:12:14,130we went through it. I was it wasa ghastly experience, we have111801:12:14,160 --> 01:12:19,050zero, good me even get Alby ifyou say, Oh, just use get LB and111901:12:19,050 --> 01:12:25,290hook it up to pod verse, PA,there's no information flow is112001:12:25,290 --> 01:12:30,150just an IP sucks. And we need tocreate some kind of project112101:12:30,180 --> 01:12:34,830again, something I'll be happyto spearhead whether the apps do112201:12:34,830 --> 01:12:38,700it themselves, you know, I had aOscar Mary came back and said,112301:12:38,700 --> 01:12:41,070Oh, you know, it's gonna be mucheasier in version six, I presume112401:12:41,070 --> 01:12:44,190they're going to integrate theBitcoin purchase right in there.112501:12:44,460 --> 01:12:48,030But even you know, the idea of Iwas saying to people, oh, just112601:12:48,030 --> 01:12:50,610go to cash app, and then youcash app, you can transfer it112701:12:50,610 --> 01:12:54,390Well, dude, it took a littlewhile to figure out how you can112801:12:54,390 --> 01:12:57,780actually do with cash app,there's no no explanation of112901:12:57,780 --> 01:13:02,520that. So we need overall, weneed to make sure that we're at113001:13:02,550 --> 01:13:07,500it. I am just as guilty ofthinking, hey, you know, you113101:13:07,500 --> 01:13:09,810just have to follow theinstructions. There's no113201:13:09,810 --> 01:13:13,170instructions anywhere really,that are of any use to anybody.113301:13:14,070 --> 01:13:16,110How do we do this? Is thissomething that should be a113401:13:16,110 --> 01:13:19,500central point should besomething on podcasts index that113501:13:19,500 --> 01:13:22,710we explain different ways topurchase Bitcoin different ways113601:13:22,710 --> 01:13:25,350to get it into the LightningNetwork? Is that something the113701:13:25,350 --> 01:13:29,550apps will do can do, since Ionly have you here, Mitch? I113801:13:29,550 --> 01:13:32,730mean, do you feel that you havean adequate explanation of how113901:13:32,730 --> 01:13:35,910this works? Or do you kind ofdump people off and get Alby and114001:13:35,910 --> 01:13:40,260rely on get lb to help peopleunderstand because get LB is, is114101:13:40,290 --> 01:13:43,500unless you're a podcaster. Ifyou're just someone who wants to114201:13:43,500 --> 01:13:47,490hook it up to pod verse, there'ssome gaps in the steps.114301:13:48,450 --> 01:13:54,330I think with the process of justconnecting your lb wallet, it's114401:13:54,450 --> 01:13:58,710pretty straightforward, but thebig knowledge gap is creating an114501:13:58,710 --> 01:14:04,230LV account and loading it withBitcoin. And big strides were114601:14:04,230 --> 01:14:09,600made this year around a fewmonths ago. So Alby previously114701:14:09,600 --> 01:14:15,210only allowed you to send sendusing the Lightning Network to114801:14:15,210 --> 01:14:20,640send sets into it. And that Iwrote a tutorial myself and it114901:14:20,730 --> 01:14:24,540turned into like, like fivepages of like needing to use a115001:14:24,540 --> 01:14:27,690third party app intermediarylike you go from your exchange,115101:14:27,690 --> 01:14:30,150you go to this third party app,you send your SATs here then you115201:14:30,150 --> 01:14:33,270send it to LB and it was a big,it was just way too complicated.115301:14:33,750 --> 01:14:37,980But they have added unchaineddeposits. So now you can go115401:14:37,980 --> 01:14:44,130directly from wherever you buybitcoin, and just send just115501:14:44,130 --> 01:14:48,600withdraw directly to your lbaccount so there's no Lightning115601:14:48,600 --> 01:14:51,960Network intermediary needed toget the the exchange doesn't115701:14:51,960 --> 01:14:54,240even have to support theLightning Network for you to115801:14:54,240 --> 01:14:55,590load your wallet with SATs.115901:14:55,680 --> 01:14:58,710Wait a minute, wait a minute,don't you have to hook up an app116001:14:58,800 --> 01:15:01,920to your Alby wallet first.116101:15:03,120 --> 01:15:06,210What I believe it'll give youone by default, I didn't have to116201:15:06,240 --> 01:15:09,510connect a node I just signed upfor lb. And they gave me a116301:15:09,660 --> 01:15:10,170wallet.116401:15:11,070 --> 01:15:17,190That you can that you can. Oh,that's ending right now. That is116501:15:17,190 --> 01:15:21,960new. Okay. That's cool. Allright. All right. Oh, okay. So116601:15:21,960 --> 01:15:22,170might116701:15:22,170 --> 01:15:24,900have been one of the earliestadopters and this that116801:15:26,340 --> 01:15:29,850I hadn't actually seen this,this screen because when I went116901:15:29,910 --> 01:15:35,610maybe three days ago, I went toAldi and I said, Okay, I want to117001:15:35,640 --> 01:15:38,940I want to receive into the lbwallet, it said, Oh, you have to117101:15:38,940 --> 01:15:43,680get a get Zeus and connect itthis way. That that that was117201:15:43,680 --> 01:15:46,740like, What I haven't seen thistop up either. Okay, this is117301:15:46,740 --> 01:15:49,590good. I think I'm just gonnawrite some stuff. And it may be117401:15:49,590 --> 01:15:52,320people can use it as a template,because I understand that117501:15:52,320 --> 01:15:54,240everyone's kind of like, well,you know, you do it there. You117601:15:54,240 --> 01:15:56,670do it there. But then everyonehas all these pieces, and they117701:15:56,670 --> 01:16:00,000don't quite connect. And it's,it's just, it's just a shame,117801:16:00,000 --> 01:16:01,680because we're so close toeverything.117901:16:02,190 --> 01:16:04,860Let me say anything, anythingcrypto that has to go through118001:16:04,860 --> 01:16:08,250KYC. I mean, it's just acrossthe board. I mean, it's always118101:16:08,250 --> 01:16:08,910going to be118201:16:09,090 --> 01:16:12,270I'm always I'm not even, I'm noteven talking about it. Just we118301:16:12,270 --> 01:16:16,260need to tell people what's goingto happen. And Cash App is the118401:16:16,260 --> 01:16:19,980worst. I mean, and this is a bigcorporation, this is a public118501:16:19,980 --> 01:16:24,030company. Let me just tell youhow Cash App went. Okay, Tina118601:16:24,030 --> 01:16:26,700installed Cash App. Great.Congratulations, you have cash118701:16:26,700 --> 01:16:30,720app, now figure out how to buybitcoin, Oh, hold on a second,118801:16:30,720 --> 01:16:35,190we need to approve you to gothrough a process. Good. You'll118901:16:35,190 --> 01:16:39,210be verified very soon. So shegot verified within 30 minutes119001:16:39,270 --> 01:16:42,480and just kept saying, verified.Now, this is when she was119101:16:42,480 --> 01:16:46,560sending a payment. And so thefirst thing she thought was, oh,119201:16:46,560 --> 01:16:49,920I'm verified. So the payment wassent, right? No, of course not.119301:16:49,920 --> 01:16:52,800Of course, they don't send thatjust because they verify you,119401:16:53,070 --> 01:16:56,850then you want to send bitcoin,then they all hold on a second.119501:16:56,850 --> 01:16:59,460Now we need your driver'slicense, we need a picture of119601:16:59,460 --> 01:17:03,570you. So it's very scary topeople when they don't know. And119701:17:03,570 --> 01:17:06,330Moon pay does the same thing. Ithink when they don't know119801:17:06,330 --> 01:17:08,820what's happening, it's like, youknow, you see something called119901:17:08,820 --> 01:17:11,940Moon pay the fact I have to getmy driver's license to moon pay,120001:17:11,970 --> 01:17:16,350you know, it's scary to people.So we need to have some legit,120101:17:16,830 --> 01:17:20,460right? Sounds like crap likeMoon pay? No, what is this120201:17:20,460 --> 01:17:25,200Russian. So I'm going to start aI'll do it on the GitHub so120301:17:25,200 --> 01:17:28,770people can can contribute to it.So we can just write something120401:17:28,770 --> 01:17:33,270up. That that is general foreverybody. And then we can pick120501:17:33,270 --> 01:17:37,110and choose integrate that intoyour own FAQs or whatever. And120601:17:37,110 --> 01:17:41,340again, a handle on my own hearthere i I really thought it was120701:17:41,340 --> 01:17:42,510much better explained.120801:17:43,440 --> 01:17:47,370Well put part of the problem isbeen that what is required is120901:17:47,370 --> 01:17:50,820changed on an almost monthlybasis. And things are evolving.121001:17:50,820 --> 01:17:53,340So if I write a tutorial fromthree months ago, yeah, there's121101:17:53,340 --> 01:17:56,820now a much easier process todaythan there was three months ago.121201:17:57,150 --> 01:17:58,680So we've been boring.121301:17:59,610 --> 01:18:03,900Or Mitch, honestly or harder,because I mean, the Cash App121401:18:03,930 --> 01:18:06,840didn't used to be that hard. Andit's harder now than it was six121501:18:06,840 --> 01:18:07,290months ago.121601:18:07,290 --> 01:18:10,350Let me tell you the thing aboutcash app. So we've got all this121701:18:10,350 --> 01:18:15,240set. And then we're now we'regoing to copy the invoice to121801:18:15,270 --> 01:18:18,930fund the wallet. And I say oh,yeah, just you don't have to121901:18:18,930 --> 01:18:22,470scan it, just copy it there. Yougo to Cash App. And cash app122001:18:22,470 --> 01:18:27,810doesn't have a paste this code.It has only the scan. And I'm122101:18:27,810 --> 01:18:31,170like, I can't undo it. And thenand then I we saw a video from122201:18:31,170 --> 01:18:35,760three months ago. Ah, you canpaste the code, if you go into122301:18:35,760 --> 01:18:39,630it to back to the homepage ofthe app and click on Bitcoin,122401:18:39,900 --> 01:18:43,200but not, not if you go, and Ithink it's a bug on there and122501:18:43,320 --> 01:18:47,100not if you go to the pay screen,it doesn't have that option. So122601:18:47,100 --> 01:18:51,390there's so much going on. Andultimately, I mean, I'm even122701:18:51,390 --> 01:18:54,630looking at this Alby. And thisis actually quite good. I mean,122801:18:54,660 --> 01:18:57,960anybody could use this, becauseyou can buy it right there and122901:18:57,960 --> 01:19:00,420you have an enlightening andthen you can fund a wallet with123001:19:00,420 --> 01:19:03,300it. And I'm actually thinkingI'll be is, is a very good123101:19:03,300 --> 01:19:04,620onramp at this point.123201:19:05,130 --> 01:19:08,010Yeah, I kind of buried the leadwhen I said the on chain123301:19:08,010 --> 01:19:11,160deposits, because that was astep forward. But this new moon123401:19:11,160 --> 01:19:15,360pay integration. Yeah, you canuse a credit card. I haven't123501:19:15,360 --> 01:19:17,910gone through the process. Iguess there's some KYC Of123601:19:17,910 --> 01:19:21,990course, of course, of course.However, you just go to LB and123701:19:21,990 --> 01:19:26,490then your the whole process isthere. Once you create a wallet,123801:19:26,490 --> 01:19:29,370you put you buy some SATs, youput it in it, then you open up123901:19:29,520 --> 01:19:31,980pod verse go to the value forvalues scream124001:19:31,980 --> 01:19:35,700the authentic. Yep. And I dothat twice. I do that twice,124101:19:35,730 --> 01:19:37,230three times. That is124201:19:37,230 --> 01:19:40,860unfortunate. I think there mightbe a graphene OS related124301:19:40,889 --> 01:19:45,989100% 100% 100% Don't worry aboutit. I don't mind because all I124401:19:45,989 --> 01:19:49,199have to do is just hit the V forV again and then just connect124501:19:49,199 --> 01:19:51,839and then it works. And itremembers the amounts I put in124601:19:51,839 --> 01:19:54,959there just forgets theconnection for some reason. I124701:19:54,959 --> 01:19:55,589don't know why.124801:19:56,040 --> 01:19:59,190Yeah, I have to look into that.That's some the token.124901:19:59,489 --> 01:20:03,839Could it be IE, perhaps my MACaddress changes every single125001:20:03,839 --> 01:20:06,029time I connect to a differentnetwork. Is it one of those125101:20:06,029 --> 01:20:08,849security things that's screwingit up? That might be an Al B125201:20:08,849 --> 01:20:09,419question.125301:20:10,500 --> 01:20:14,160It would depend on what type ofso right now the wallet will125401:20:14,160 --> 01:20:19,170auto disconnect in pod verse ifit gets a unauthorized response.125501:20:20,160 --> 01:20:24,360Which makes me wonder if thereis extra security happening. I125601:20:24,360 --> 01:20:27,150don't know what changing that.Honestly, if somehow I find125701:20:27,150 --> 01:20:31,440myself reconnecting to Alby incontracts in a browser, I have125801:20:31,440 --> 01:20:38,010to reconnect regularly with theSaturn stats. So it's probably125901:20:38,010 --> 01:20:41,790the I have too much security inmy life. I'm running more126001:20:41,790 --> 01:20:42,510dangerously.126101:20:42,900 --> 01:20:46,260I'm running any graphing OS toAdam and I don't think I have126201:20:46,260 --> 01:20:49,290the issue. So it's for strange.126301:20:50,370 --> 01:20:52,860Your pod verse and graphene.Right, Alex?126401:20:53,849 --> 01:20:57,089Yeah, that's not my primaryefficient just using 10 up.126501:20:59,999 --> 01:21:01,619Okay, but I'll give a shout out.126601:21:01,950 --> 01:21:04,560Yeah, yeah. I mean, it's it. Ijust don't want to bother Mitch,126701:21:04,560 --> 01:21:06,720if it's something that'scompletely on my side, you know,126801:21:06,720 --> 01:21:08,490so don't have to deal with thatcrap.126901:21:09,120 --> 01:21:10,740Now, you're an expert atbreaking things.127001:21:10,950 --> 01:21:16,770I am so good, valuable service.Steel, a speaking of such, I127101:21:16,770 --> 01:21:21,420want to promote the value forvalue dot info. website, which127201:21:21,660 --> 01:21:24,060I've been trying to get it outthere, but not a lot of127301:21:24,060 --> 01:21:31,560traction. It's, it explains whatvalue for value is and how it127401:21:31,560 --> 01:21:35,730works in context of podcasting.2.0. So I'm putting that in the127501:21:35,730 --> 01:21:41,250show notes. Pass it on, letpeople know. And we finally were127601:21:41,250 --> 01:21:46,170able to make HTTPS work with newpodcast apps.com.127701:21:46,769 --> 01:21:49,049So is it is it we're new? Yeah.Yeah, of course. Now,127801:21:49,380 --> 01:21:52,350after I paid pay for, forcertificate.127901:21:54,450 --> 01:21:56,490Oh, he had to pay forcertificate?128001:21:56,550 --> 01:22:00,360Well, if you do it through DNS,simple. I mean, ultimately, you128101:22:00,360 --> 01:22:03,900wind up paying for somethingsomewhere. I mean, yeah. Don't128201:22:03,900 --> 01:22:06,450worry about it. It's I'm happy.It worked. I didn't know that128301:22:06,450 --> 01:22:09,300was possible. And so that thatwas a big, that was a big win,128401:22:09,330 --> 01:22:11,040because I think that wasbreaking everywhere.128501:22:11,970 --> 01:22:15,660Hey, Alex, can you give me anupdate on what you're like and128601:22:15,660 --> 01:22:21,720where you're at with yourmanaging have no agenda tubes,128701:22:21,750 --> 01:22:26,070like, I guess I want I want tosay moderation. But that's not128801:22:26,610 --> 01:22:29,250really what I'm talking about.You did a bunch of cleanup and128901:22:29,250 --> 01:22:31,410got rid of a bunch of crapaccounts and that kind of thing.129001:22:31,410 --> 01:22:35,190But then also, like, what, howdo you manage in general, the129101:22:35,190 --> 01:22:38,460comments section and all thatstuff? I mean, like, what, what129201:22:38,460 --> 01:22:39,330do you do there?129301:22:41,070 --> 01:22:46,470Yeah, so basically closed openregistration. Because the most129401:22:46,470 --> 01:22:50,820of the signups after the initialkind of announcement, but his129501:22:50,820 --> 01:22:54,360bot accounts like linking tolooking outside of the site. So129601:22:54,870 --> 01:23:01,650I ended up cleaning up likemaybe 30% of the accounts. So129701:23:01,860 --> 01:23:06,480that was fine. And then as faras comments, I don't there's129801:23:06,480 --> 01:23:10,620not, there's not a ton ofcomments. But it goes in line129901:23:10,620 --> 01:23:15,450with the traditional, I believethe traditional activity pub130001:23:15,450 --> 01:23:20,580reporting mechanism. So ifsomeone reports a common ocular130101:23:20,580 --> 01:23:26,250notification, and I cannot actupon it there, I can either130201:23:26,730 --> 01:23:30,720ignore it, or I can, you know,delete the comment from no130301:23:30,720 --> 01:23:34,620agenda to I can't delete thecomment because I don't have130401:23:34,620 --> 01:23:37,470access to other people'sservers. I can also block130501:23:37,470 --> 01:23:40,560domains. So I mean, it's justlike you'd see a mess. I think.130601:23:41,820 --> 01:23:45,330Oh, speaking of we got we gotFetty blocked hashtag Fetty130701:23:45,330 --> 01:23:49,620blocked on pasture podcastingindex dot social, for the for130801:23:49,620 --> 01:23:52,710being, quote, libertarian andcrypto.130901:23:52,740 --> 01:23:56,130Who who did that? I don't know.How do you know how do you know131001:23:56,130 --> 01:23:58,140we got blocked gooery posted131101:23:58,140 --> 01:24:00,960a screenshot from some otherincidents that blocked us.131201:24:01,830 --> 01:24:06,480Hashtag city block. And thereason libertarian slash crypto.131301:24:10,260 --> 01:24:15,330That really sums everything up.Well, that's whatever you131401:24:15,360 --> 01:24:18,180whatever you're doing, Alex, Iwant to do that, too. I mean, I131501:24:18,180 --> 01:24:20,820think I think I just want toclose. I think I just want to131601:24:20,820 --> 01:24:23,880close registration. I mean, dopeople have to email you to do131701:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,190it? Or do you have some sort oftrickery that they have to run131801:24:26,190 --> 01:24:30,630through? What are you doing? Toregister? Yeah, to get an131901:24:30,630 --> 01:24:31,020account?132001:24:31,230 --> 01:24:34,020Yeah, right. Now they would haveto contact me with an email132101:24:34,020 --> 01:24:35,700address and create their ownaccount.132201:24:36,540 --> 01:24:40,290Okay, because I think that's theway I'm going because the open132301:24:40,290 --> 01:24:45,000signup is just I feel like it'sa losing battle. I feel like132401:24:45,000 --> 01:24:48,660didn't No matter what I do,there's going to be some bot132501:24:48,660 --> 01:24:50,490tree out there. They can defeatit.132601:24:51,210 --> 01:24:55,830I also have sign in with noagenda social, which just uses132701:24:55,830 --> 01:24:56,370OAuth.132801:24:57,630 --> 01:25:00,420Oh, no, you can that's basicallyhow comments are work,132901:25:01,080 --> 01:25:04,980right? It's not the same thingwith peer to peer. But yeah,133001:25:04,980 --> 01:25:07,920that's, that's a good flow if,if you want someone to sign and133101:25:07,920 --> 01:25:11,100it was like, you could you couldassign on GitHub for if you133201:25:11,100 --> 01:25:11,880want. So,133301:25:12,120 --> 01:25:15,240so if, okay, so now since you'rehere, we're talking about no133401:25:15,240 --> 01:25:22,590agenda to, if I wanted to askMo, for mo facts, to start using133501:25:22,590 --> 01:25:27,840no agenda tube, what are thepieces he needs? And what is133601:25:27,840 --> 01:25:33,510missing? Or what do what do weneed to do? Because the133701:25:33,510 --> 01:25:38,670disconnect I'm seeing is, well,one he would need, he can send133801:25:38,670 --> 01:25:44,010an RTP s stream, which I knowthat works, I've done that, then133901:25:44,010 --> 01:25:48,450what comes out, you have yourown RSS feed. So that will be134001:25:48,450 --> 01:25:51,300separate from the RSS feed wealready use.134101:25:53,610 --> 01:25:57,900Yeah, although you could takethat item and put it in yours if134201:25:57,900 --> 01:25:58,290you want.134301:25:59,880 --> 01:26:03,300Right, but that would be thatwould require manual134401:26:03,300 --> 01:26:04,140intervention.134501:26:05,220 --> 01:26:06,570Or a script? Yep.134601:26:06,660 --> 01:26:09,120Is there something that you'rethat you're thinking about in134701:26:09,120 --> 01:26:11,250that way? I mean, obviously,want to keep your, your your134801:26:11,250 --> 01:26:15,120split in there. And all thatworking? is just how do we, you134901:26:15,120 --> 01:26:20,130know, we have our RSS feed, wewant to have a user lit tag, we135001:26:20,130 --> 01:26:23,700want to go lit when people topop up there, what is the best135101:26:23,700 --> 01:26:24,690way to do that.135201:26:27,390 --> 01:26:31,020So what I'm working on istargeting people who want to135301:26:31,020 --> 01:26:34,080stand up their own peer tubeinstances and use it as their as135401:26:34,080 --> 01:26:40,170their feed. Okay, yeah, kind oflike, I want people to be able135501:26:40,170 --> 01:26:44,910to replace YouTube or Twitch,and not have to know how to host135601:26:44,910 --> 01:26:52,680an RSS feed. I mean, you saw,there's two ways you could do135701:26:52,680 --> 01:26:57,150it, you could have a permanentlive stream. And just put that135801:26:57,150 --> 01:26:59,910in your feed and keep it thereforever, just like you do with135901:26:59,910 --> 01:27:04,350icecast or more, or whatever youdo for your mp3 stream, but no136001:27:04,350 --> 01:27:07,680dentistry. That would work.136101:27:08,970 --> 01:27:13,740Otherwise, so that would just beour own our own video server136201:27:13,770 --> 01:27:14,460basically.136301:27:16,440 --> 01:27:19,950Well, if you want to just know,genitive, it would be a put your136401:27:19,950 --> 01:27:24,690your live stream no agenda toyour own there.136501:27:25,080 --> 01:27:27,570Okay, but then you don'tnecessarily get your split,136601:27:27,750 --> 01:27:29,400unless we put it inspecifically.136701:27:29,790 --> 01:27:33,150Right, you'd have to add that.Okay. Which I mean, that's the136801:27:33,150 --> 01:27:36,660case with any external links andRSS feeds. I don't think that136901:27:36,660 --> 01:27:42,720gets all that problem. Okay, sowe are working, there's a137001:27:42,720 --> 01:27:45,300camera, his name, there'ssomeone working on a lightning137101:27:45,810 --> 01:27:50,310plugin for peer tube. And what Iwant to do is, hook in with137201:27:50,310 --> 01:27:54,870that, so I can put the valueblock into the feed too. But137301:27:54,870 --> 01:27:58,050then, I still you'd still haveto have some kind of script to137401:27:58,050 --> 01:27:58,680pull it in.137501:27:59,040 --> 01:28:03,030And Mitch to you. Does pod versedo video? We'll do that kind of137601:28:03,030 --> 01:28:04,050video. I should say.137701:28:04,649 --> 01:28:09,569We do support video. I don't I'mnot aware of any live streaming137801:28:09,629 --> 01:28:15,269video podcasts unless maybe ToddCochran is has done one. We have137901:28:15,269 --> 01:28:19,829a limitation currently, which iswe don't support HLS video138001:28:19,829 --> 01:28:23,369streams. Alex is well aware ofthis. He's the one who told me138101:28:23,369 --> 01:28:23,759about it.138201:28:24,780 --> 01:28:27,630Everything you droppedeverything but HLS. Right, Alex?138301:28:28,649 --> 01:28:32,939Yeah, basically, the way peertube works, I cut my storage in138401:28:32,939 --> 01:28:37,739half. Most supporting HLS rightnow it caught my paying138501:28:37,859 --> 01:28:38,969significantly less.138601:28:40,439 --> 01:28:44,489Yeah. And the good news on ourend is that over the holiday138701:28:44,489 --> 01:28:48,209break, I created a branch forthe mobile app where I'm138801:28:48,239 --> 01:28:52,169upgrading our video and audiolibrary. It was a big, big138901:28:52,169 --> 01:28:54,749undertaking, and we need to do alot of testing this is gonna be139001:28:54,749 --> 01:28:58,799a longer because yeah, if if theaudio player or video player139101:28:58,799 --> 01:29:02,609have issues, that's the wholeapp. So we're going to I've been139201:29:02,609 --> 01:29:06,869delaying the release into betauntil we have like a feel good139301:29:06,869 --> 01:29:10,109about our stable, you know, ourversion that we have live that139401:29:10,109 --> 01:29:14,579will beta test deeply for acouple of weeks. all goes well,139501:29:14,579 --> 01:29:17,729then we should be able tosupport HLS video pretty soon.139601:29:18,420 --> 01:29:26,220Killer. That's awesome. In yourhow health? how responsive has139701:29:26,250 --> 01:29:30,330appeared to been to yourupstreaming in on all that. Do139801:29:30,330 --> 01:29:32,460you think that's gonna go prettywell, Alex?139901:29:33,690 --> 01:29:36,750Yeah, I can work on that thisweekend. Obviously, they wanted140001:29:36,750 --> 01:29:41,010some changes. It's always it'salways more difficult to work140101:29:41,010 --> 01:29:44,700with someone else's softwarethan your own because you it's140201:29:44,700 --> 01:29:49,260as much politics as isdeveloped. Yes, it is. I think140301:29:49,260 --> 01:29:52,410they're open to it. And I thinksome of the people understand140401:29:52,410 --> 01:29:58,170that. Having an RSS feed is verybeneficial. So um, there are140501:29:58,170 --> 01:30:03,240many users asking for it. So,yeah, I think it's going well.140601:30:05,339 --> 01:30:08,879May I suggest we thank a fewpeople. Now that were a buck 30140701:30:08,879 --> 01:30:14,039into this yet, let's go. We'vehad some. We've had quite a140801:30:14,039 --> 01:30:18,959number actually. Quite a numberof live booths coming in. We'll140901:30:18,959 --> 01:30:23,789start with Mike Newman. The mostrecent 123,456141001:30:25,080 --> 01:30:28,920shot caller 20 blades on himPaula.141101:30:29,610 --> 01:30:33,660I think anything over 100,000 Isthat Is that a big baller every141201:30:33,660 --> 01:30:36,840100,000 Plus we're gonna have toup the ante here on what's141301:30:39,360 --> 01:30:43,170down the ante with with theMartin. Way prices are141401:30:44,550 --> 01:30:46,920great hearing a full boardboardroom to start the new year141501:30:46,920 --> 01:30:50,130today I'm creating I'm streamingwith curio caster and boosting141601:30:50,130 --> 01:30:54,360from pod verse small right.Cheers. Wow, cheers to a141701:30:54,360 --> 01:30:58,680productive and collaborative2023 for the PC to o community.141801:30:58,710 --> 01:31:02,370All right, Mike. Thank you verymuch. 10,000 SATs from Sam Sethi141901:31:02,370 --> 01:31:06,480again. Who says my lightningaddress Sam had Get out b.com is142001:31:06,480 --> 01:31:09,270also my noster account. Oh yeah,we haven't even talked about142101:31:09,270 --> 01:31:13,140that thank God as lb hold mypublic and private keys could142201:31:13,140 --> 01:31:15,690well be also integrate toMastodon the same way. So I142301:31:15,690 --> 01:31:18,480could use my lightning addressto post to Mastodon the same way142401:31:18,480 --> 01:31:23,460I can today with noster to anyrelay that I'm logged into. Who142501:31:23,490 --> 01:31:25,290I don't know Alex yes or no.142601:31:27,300 --> 01:31:28,560Sorry. Can you repeat thequestion?142701:31:28,980 --> 01:31:32,370I don't understand the question.So it's lightning and he's he142801:31:32,370 --> 01:31:35,580has a lightning address. It'sSam and get alby.com. It's also142901:31:35,580 --> 01:31:38,490his Nasr. Public Key. I guessthat's what he says when he says143001:31:38,520 --> 01:31:42,360my noster account. Yeah, so ifyou use his public and private143101:31:42,360 --> 01:31:46,740keys for that could Alby alsointegrate into Mastodon in the143201:31:46,740 --> 01:31:49,500same way, so I could use mylightning address to post a143301:31:49,500 --> 01:31:53,100Macedon? I don't know if that'spossible. I think so.143401:31:53,460 --> 01:31:59,370That's a difference betweenidentity and service. So no, I143501:31:59,370 --> 01:32:02,490mean, you could log in with it.Maybe if they supported that.143601:32:03,180 --> 01:32:05,970Okay, I don't think it does.They would have to, they would143701:32:05,970 --> 01:32:07,590have to run a message onservice.143801:32:08,490 --> 01:32:14,190Okay. Martin, Linda's cog row ofshort row of ducks. He says,143901:32:14,190 --> 01:32:16,830Hey, thanks for going for theflow for the user of a pod144001:32:16,920 --> 01:32:20,010catcher and listener to apodcast I think he means for the144101:32:20,010 --> 01:32:24,090comments. There Sam Sethi again,which we talked about with his144201:32:24,090 --> 01:32:30,870super project. Pod fans. That'sthe 10,000 SATs 33,333 from144301:32:30,870 --> 01:32:38,820cotton gin. Happy New Year gopodcast podcast. 20,023 from144401:32:38,820 --> 01:32:42,660last stock Calavera first boostfor the New Year from my own144501:32:42,660 --> 01:32:46,950node. Congratulations you fullnode owner you here's my two144601:32:46,950 --> 01:32:50,760saps on cross app comments finefor live stuff. But boost should144701:32:50,760 --> 01:32:53,670be the main mechanism forregular releases. I like144801:32:53,670 --> 01:32:57,030chapters I like boosts I'm notwanting I'm not wanting for144901:32:57,030 --> 01:33:00,420comments. I am curious to seehow the value tag evolves this145001:33:00,420 --> 01:33:04,050year. Could a big player likeVenmo get involved? They could145101:33:04,050 --> 01:33:07,440do Fiat but they also buy andsell Bitcoin and shit coins to145201:33:07,440 --> 01:33:09,870their users. Maybe it will bepossible for someone to use a145301:33:09,870 --> 01:33:14,700service like that and bring itmainstream there's a lot there.145401:33:15,960 --> 01:33:20,460So I mean, that's your that's apersonal preference. About boost145501:33:20,460 --> 01:33:22,950versus comments. I think we wekind of went through that I145601:33:22,950 --> 01:33:25,260think we have some consensus onthat and how that could be145701:33:25,800 --> 01:33:30,120integrated but clearly separate.And yeah, any player can get145801:33:30,120 --> 01:33:35,370into this the spec is open so Idon't see why not the problem is145901:33:35,400 --> 01:33:40,440typically with Fiat systems thatthey don't do very well at small146001:33:40,440 --> 01:33:45,540amounts for transactions. Thenhe comments146101:33:46,470 --> 01:33:52,020for the idea that booster gramsand comments are separate. I146201:33:52,020 --> 01:33:54,450don't think it from a userexperience they have to be all146301:33:54,450 --> 01:33:58,380that separate. If you look atYouTube live streams today they146401:33:58,380 --> 01:34:03,390have a chat and the super chatswhich are paid comments appear146501:34:03,390 --> 01:34:07,710within the chat they just haveyou know a value next to them. I146601:34:07,710 --> 01:34:12,360think a comparable experience ispossible with booster grams and146701:34:12,360 --> 01:34:12,810process.146801:34:12,960 --> 01:34:16,170I look forward to it Mitch, youknow me I'll be the one146901:34:16,200 --> 01:34:19,260promoting it and breaking it atthe same time. I'm very happy to147001:34:19,260 --> 01:34:22,560try that. Big players Yeah, bigplayers are already getting into147101:34:22,560 --> 01:34:26,280the to the to the value space,which in general is good as long147201:34:26,280 --> 01:34:31,380as you know they can adhere tothe way it works, I guess. I147301:34:31,380 --> 01:34:33,750mean, that seems to be an open Idon't know if we have time to go147401:34:33,750 --> 01:34:35,730into that. Dave, if you want tocomment on that.147501:34:37,110 --> 01:34:39,960The moment on which specificthough it's like Venmo147601:34:41,010 --> 01:34:42,690or anybody coming in, I guess.147701:34:43,649 --> 01:34:47,129I don't know. I don't I don'tknow. That's just that's not147801:34:47,129 --> 01:34:51,779really I hate to say that Idon't care. I guess because I147901:34:51,779 --> 01:34:54,449mean anytime some big playerdoes something it has the148001:34:54,539 --> 01:34:58,469potential to you know, makewaves and do all this stuff for148101:34:58,469 --> 01:35:01,529good and bad I guess but I justI don't know that I'm just not148201:35:01,529 --> 01:35:05,909focused on that. I mean, likethat, to me, the, the, to me,148301:35:05,909 --> 01:35:10,469what matters is that you're ableto do things direct, directly,148401:35:10,769 --> 01:35:15,479peer to peer. I mean, and, and Idon't think we I think so much148501:35:15,479 --> 01:35:19,499of so much of everything that wedo today is built in these on148601:35:19,499 --> 01:35:22,919these big platforms that I justwant to minimize that. I mean,148701:35:22,919 --> 01:35:27,089you can't get to be realisticand say, Well, you can't ever148801:35:27,089 --> 01:35:30,659completely get away from it.Maybe but I don't know. I just,148901:35:30,899 --> 01:35:33,929um, through caring about whatabout what the big players are149001:35:33,929 --> 01:35:34,349doing?149101:35:34,380 --> 01:35:41,970No. There you go. I'm notimplementing I'm excited. 33 333149201:35:41,970 --> 01:35:45,300from Eric P. P. Pew pew. He saysthank you very much, Eric.149301:35:45,300 --> 01:35:48,900Appreciate it. The 6969 from acitizen fountain is great and149401:35:48,900 --> 01:35:52,170all but it's absolutelyproprietary software sent to you149501:35:52,170 --> 01:35:59,250from pod verse powered by getAlby. Okay. Wow, that's an odd149601:35:59,250 --> 01:35:59,640one.149701:36:00,810 --> 01:36:05,730Well, thank you. Yeah, we arefree and open source software.149801:36:05,820 --> 01:36:09,360And, you know, we love that somepeople appreciate that.149901:36:09,750 --> 01:36:15,24010,000 from Borlaug. Thank you.17,776 from blueberry a big150001:36:15,240 --> 01:36:17,820freedom boost excited for thisone. Mitch has come to chew150101:36:17,820 --> 01:36:21,600bubblegum and kick ass and he'sall out of bubblegum. Go150201:36:21,600 --> 01:36:27,780podcast. Martin Linda cog.Linda's cog. Also very happy to150301:36:27,780 --> 01:36:35,010hear Mitch his voice 1776 And wehave 1999 from the tone record,150401:36:35,010 --> 01:36:38,490please explain the Pugh soundtrigger setup or share link150501:36:38,490 --> 01:36:42,390slash INFO. Looking to implementone here with music specific150601:36:42,390 --> 01:36:47,490boosts a sounds for boosts 808SATs for triggers. Oh, he's got150701:36:47,490 --> 01:36:50,490a whole bunch of different tech.Well talk to blueberry about150801:36:50,490 --> 01:36:54,000that. And Sir Spencer and thoseguys because they've set all150901:36:54,000 --> 01:36:57,750that up. I'm not even sure howit works. We do have the pew pew151001:36:57,750 --> 01:37:04,110sound this one is in heli pad.Which I have been going through151101:37:04,110 --> 01:37:09,120my old domains or my hundreds ofdomains and trying to reduce151201:37:09,150 --> 01:37:12,000some. Some of these are prettyexpensive. It turns out if it's151301:37:12,000 --> 01:37:19,560not a.com And we have heli paddot cloud still do. Does anyone151401:37:19,770 --> 01:37:23,130know that? Yeah, it actually itpoints. It points to the GitHub151501:37:23,130 --> 01:37:26,910for helipad. The helipad isstill a great program. I mean, I151601:37:26,910 --> 01:37:31,680use it every single time I'mdoing stuff with the show. I151701:37:31,680 --> 01:37:34,260know it's like it might havedropped off everyone's radar for151801:37:34,260 --> 01:37:36,960a bit. But man, it's a greatgreat little program151901:37:36,960 --> 01:37:41,130particularly for live stuff.And, and I see Todd Cochran is152001:37:41,130 --> 01:37:45,960next with 125,000 SATs, ToddBala152101:37:45,990 --> 01:37:49,830Sakala. 20 is blades onlyImpala.152201:37:49,890 --> 01:37:57,600And Todd is using the lb relatedSaturn live view of the package.152301:37:57,930 --> 01:38:02,250Todd, I would say if you can getheli pad running, it only goes152401:38:02,250 --> 01:38:06,000off with boosts. Because I waslistening to the live stream152501:38:06,000 --> 01:38:08,250from NAB. I think that's wherethey're at this week. And he's152601:38:08,250 --> 01:38:13,140doing a nine hour live stream.And so I'm listening and I'm152701:38:13,140 --> 01:38:15,480sending 200 SATs a minute.That's my standard.152801:38:16,649 --> 01:38:18,509And I'm a data controller. Okay,152901:38:18,540 --> 01:38:22,710I keep hearing every minute whatit was like blooming, whatever153001:38:22,710 --> 01:38:26,610that sound is from, from Alby.We're, like oh, man, I should153101:38:26,610 --> 01:38:30,270stop sending the money, becauseit's annoying now. It's153201:38:30,270 --> 01:38:32,310like a 70s game show. Yes,153301:38:32,310 --> 01:38:37,020it does. So helipad is still afantastic piece of software. If153401:38:37,020 --> 01:38:40,980you have Umbral, then it's rightthere in the in the store. I153501:38:40,980 --> 01:38:44,520love it. I think it works great.I use it to export my booster153601:38:44,520 --> 01:38:47,460grams from so I just wanted tomake sure that everyone knows153701:38:47,580 --> 01:38:51,030heli pad dot cloud $50 a yearbut I'm happy to keep using it.153801:38:51,630 --> 01:38:54,720And Todd says hey guys,blueberry is really close and153901:38:54,720 --> 01:38:59,040releasing a bunch of podcasting2.0 features. We'll be doing154001:38:59,040 --> 01:39:02,160final testing on our dashboardnext week. Then we work on power154101:39:02,160 --> 01:39:07,800press. Go podcasting. Yeah,Podcast. I'm very excited about154201:39:07,800 --> 01:39:12,720that, Todd. So happy to see youjump in. And we had to pull you154301:39:12,720 --> 01:39:16,140in. We had to take your clothesoff. We had to put your bathing154401:39:16,140 --> 01:39:19,830cap on but you're in in the deepend. We love that154501:39:20,130 --> 01:39:21,300and know where you're going withthat.154601:39:22,259 --> 01:39:26,789It's true. Let me see. I thinkthose are what No, I have a154701:39:26,789 --> 01:39:32,879couple more and other breweries.1776. Thank you very much. Do I154801:39:32,879 --> 01:39:36,149have anything else here? Well,then I have the delimiter which154901:39:36,179 --> 01:39:39,509means it's time to hit it overto you Dave. So what do you155001:39:39,509 --> 01:39:40,049have?155101:39:41,460 --> 01:39:46,350We got a we have a pate. We havea Pay Pal. One Pay Pal this week155201:39:46,380 --> 01:39:51,150from blueberry $150 Whoa, whoa,155301:39:51,150 --> 01:39:53,400hold on a second. It's a baller.155401:39:54,960 --> 01:39:56,940Play on the Impala.155501:39:56,970 --> 01:39:59,070Does he already have a coveted tshirt?155601:40:00,000 --> 01:40:04,380No he does not but I will be Iwill be glad to send Todd and155701:40:05,400 --> 01:40:05,940Mike155801:40:06,270 --> 01:40:08,760cinnabar T shirts if they willmake sure you let us know guys.155901:40:09,360 --> 01:40:12,840Yeah, thank you very there wasno note. So I guess I guess the156001:40:12,840 --> 01:40:16,590boost was the note. Okay, the wegot some histograms though.156101:40:16,800 --> 01:40:23,430We'll see. Blueberry row 611 111through pod Verse eight says156201:40:23,430 --> 01:40:24,300keep it skanky.156301:40:24,929 --> 01:40:27,179That's also known as a satchelof Richard.156401:40:27,899 --> 01:40:31,589Oh, okay. All right. What doesthis term mean satchel of156501:40:31,589 --> 01:40:32,279Richard Well,156601:40:32,309 --> 01:40:39,659that's the British for bag ofdicks. 1111 is a statue of156701:40:39,659 --> 01:40:41,969Richard it's the polite way tosay it.156801:40:42,570 --> 01:40:44,790Okay, this in company in politecompany156901:40:45,030 --> 01:40:49,080came up the other day. Like, oh,okay, I got you. Okay157001:40:49,110 --> 01:40:53,640in for VX 3333 through curiocastering He says PC 2.0 To the157101:40:53,640 --> 01:40:55,350moon 2023 and beyond.157201:40:55,860 --> 01:40:59,400Thank you. Is that a boost? Oras a boost? Yes. 808 I'm157301:40:59,400 --> 01:41:03,660guessing no. 33330 That'sdifferent usually does. 808 All157401:41:03,660 --> 01:41:04,380right. Thank you.157501:41:05,189 --> 01:41:09,059Martin lenscoat He says it's aroadex tu tu tu tu and he says157601:41:09,059 --> 01:41:12,179cheers. What do you drink?James? You should drink tea.157701:41:12,239 --> 01:41:13,589Martin, Linda Scott. All right.157801:41:14,100 --> 01:41:16,770That's from our our year endepisode.157901:41:17,700 --> 01:41:21,150Martin sent us a Russia 2112boost and he says the Asian158001:41:21,150 --> 01:41:25,530market is the way to go. Iscontro is a good ingredient for158101:41:25,530 --> 01:41:26,280Margarita.158201:41:26,939 --> 01:41:30,749This is all boosting basis. Allboosting from that show. Yes.158301:41:32,399 --> 01:41:37,409Let's see. We got Mike Dell said5555 through pod verse. He says158401:41:37,409 --> 01:41:38,999last boost to 2022158501:41:39,240 --> 01:41:41,880Nice one Mike Thank you.Blueberry.158601:41:42,510 --> 01:41:47,280Again at with boost CLI 33 333.And he says next week makes 100158701:41:47,280 --> 01:41:50,910Live episodes of behind theschemes in the can going live158801:41:50,910 --> 01:41:54,000with IRC and a voicemail line issuch a killer combo 10 out of 10158901:41:54,000 --> 01:41:55,560would recommend Yes.159001:41:56,130 --> 01:41:59,610I'd love to understand howyou're triggering all those all159101:41:59,610 --> 01:42:01,530those sounds with differentamounts.159201:42:01,920 --> 01:42:03,570The goat slaughter Yes. Yeah,159301:42:03,570 --> 01:42:06,450I mean it's I'm sure it'sdocumented somewhere but I just159401:42:06,450 --> 01:42:09,120love to see if I can do itmyself. I love it. I love the159501:42:09,120 --> 01:42:09,540idea.159601:42:10,320 --> 01:42:14,010Net Ned sent us 10,000 SATsthrough fountain and he says not159701:42:14,010 --> 01:42:21,510DJ not VJ PB and J pod boostedJackie. Boost tone records and159801:42:21,510 --> 01:42:25,410is 1999 1999 through curioCatherine says appreciate the159901:42:25,410 --> 01:42:28,380later live session today. Achance to sit in and chat160001:42:28,380 --> 01:42:33,480finally while logged out of worknow. Oh, James Cridland oh this160101:42:33,510 --> 01:42:39,840this is your boost. This is your100,000 Boost. Am I am I am I160201:42:40,470 --> 01:42:41,850overlapping do we do already do160301:42:41,880 --> 01:42:45,150Yeah, I don't think no the100,000 book. Yes you overlapped160401:42:45,150 --> 01:42:48,720these were we read these whilelive? You got the 100,000160501:42:48,720 --> 01:42:53,160though. Yeah, that was for thebet. Now interestingly, it160601:42:53,160 --> 01:42:57,150should have gone to me alone butokay. And he actually he160701:42:57,150 --> 01:43:00,720actually sent like I think 10%back to Himself because we put160801:43:00,720 --> 01:43:02,550them in the split but okay. Allright.160901:43:04,290 --> 01:43:06,420That wasn't that was a littlesneaky. Yeah.161001:43:07,260 --> 01:43:10,740He did it last year too. And I'msure for the next 10 years as I161101:43:10,740 --> 01:43:14,400remained correct on my with mybet that Apple will never161201:43:14,400 --> 01:43:18,330release Apple podcasting toAndroid. Just we'll just keep it161301:43:18,360 --> 01:43:19,740going to the indexes fine.161401:43:21,240 --> 01:43:25,770Let's see so I gotta I gottamake sure that I am in the right161501:43:25,770 --> 01:43:27,120thing. So we did161601:43:27,240 --> 01:43:31,290so Burberry says that all thosesounds are triggered by IRC161701:43:31,320 --> 01:43:35,670okay? So it's a combine yes ofthe boost bot and IRC Well it's161801:43:35,670 --> 01:43:38,940good to know I mean, I'd love tounderstand I can get into IRC161901:43:38,940 --> 01:43:39,360stuff162001:43:40,740 --> 01:43:46,980um let's see okay. Oh, we gotPeter sent us I don't I don't162101:43:46,980 --> 01:43:51,600think we did this way. I don'tthink so. Peter gave us 333 333162201:43:51,690 --> 01:43:53,940What? Through fountain162301:43:54,479 --> 01:43:57,56933 333,333.162401:44:00,600 --> 01:44:03,720Blades on am Paula no joke HR162501:44:03,720 --> 01:44:04,350Thank you.162601:44:05,130 --> 01:44:08,100He says thank you pod fatherpostage and the mini mini pod162701:44:08,100 --> 01:44:10,800fluence errs out there makingpodcasts and 2.0 reality162801:44:10,800 --> 01:44:14,250including Alex and Mitch onwardand upward boost boost boost162901:44:14,250 --> 01:44:21,810yay. 2023 sets through from Mattcandle through fountain needs to163001:44:21,810 --> 01:44:25,710Happy New Year. Great meetingyou at Podcast Movement. Great163101:44:25,710 --> 01:44:30,930meeting you to elite 1337through gene from gene B. And163201:44:30,930 --> 01:44:33,120through fountain he says so gladto hear Dave say he's going to163301:44:33,120 --> 01:44:35,070build the bridge between Mr.Graham's like this one and163401:44:35,070 --> 01:44:37,470activity pub. Well, that's theplan.163501:44:37,560 --> 01:44:40,950Hey, are you are you going topod fest? Me?163601:44:40,979 --> 01:44:41,759Yeah, no,163701:44:41,790 --> 01:44:45,270no, I just want to show you. Idon't think I can handle it163801:44:45,270 --> 01:44:45,780anymore.163901:44:46,770 --> 01:44:50,970I can't it's too close to taxseason. Is this whole? Yes, of164001:44:50,970 --> 01:44:51,360course.164101:44:51,360 --> 01:44:51,810Of course.164201:44:52,410 --> 01:44:56,580It's already started to season.Another one from Jean being the164301:44:56,580 --> 01:44:59,460problem with podcast appsrunning a mastodon server that164401:44:59,460 --> 01:45:01,740provides users With accounts isthat the app owners now164501:45:01,740 --> 01:45:04,290responsible for moderation andall the other overhead of164601:45:04,290 --> 01:45:07,080operating a mastodon instance,just talked about.164701:45:07,380 --> 01:45:09,120I think we're good. I think wefixed that.164801:45:10,050 --> 01:45:13,500Social proof is also from JeanBailey boost. He says social164901:45:13,500 --> 01:45:17,490proof social proof is just sucha great way of describing165001:45:17,490 --> 01:45:21,540comments. Okay, is it somethingthat we said?165101:45:21,600 --> 01:45:25,170I'm trying to think what thatwas? I don't remember saying I165201:45:25,170 --> 01:45:29,010don't feel. I like it. I'm notsure what it is. But I like it.165301:45:30,390 --> 01:45:33,270That's it. There you go. That'sthe show title. Social proof. We165401:45:33,270 --> 01:45:35,490got social proof. Nice. Thank165501:45:35,490 --> 01:45:37,980you probably relates to yournostril key.165601:45:39,000 --> 01:45:42,510Oh, that's right. That's right.Because I was saying that the165701:45:42,510 --> 01:45:47,340Jack was messaging me on nosterhe was like, that's not Jack. Ma165801:45:47,340 --> 01:45:47,910It was165901:45:49,830 --> 01:45:52,980it's it's a Jack It's not Jackand listen to this. It was the166001:45:53,430 --> 01:45:57,810it was the jack. Sir Michael2020 says through fountain No,166101:45:57,810 --> 01:46:02,520no, thank you, sir. Thank you.Jean bein back with to 22 to 22166201:46:02,520 --> 01:46:05,100through fountaining says puttingout a shameless plug for the166301:46:05,100 --> 01:46:08,670volunteer technologist podcast,where we dive into the many ways166401:46:08,670 --> 01:46:11,550people who are technicallyinclined voluntarily put their166501:46:11,550 --> 01:46:15,750skills to use outside of theirprimary job. That's interesting.166601:46:15,780 --> 01:46:21,390Yeah, I'm gonna give that alisten. Mister Mister. Not the166701:46:21,390 --> 01:46:26,700band from the 80s as soon asseven 674 sets through fountain166801:46:26,730 --> 01:46:29,850no note that what was their bighit? What was Mr. Misters big166901:46:29,850 --> 01:46:30,240two big167001:46:30,240 --> 01:46:33,240hits. I think the guys live outhere actually carry a liaison167101:46:33,450 --> 01:46:36,840and broken wings of really niceguy. So can we167201:46:37,860 --> 01:46:41,280show these brains when we167301:46:44,880 --> 01:46:46,890stop? We're killing each other.167401:46:47,760 --> 01:46:53,610Five hat 10101 binary boostercurio caster no note Sachtler167501:46:53,610 --> 01:47:00,270Richards from Joel Debbie. Yougo. No note 1555 from nomadic167601:47:00,270 --> 01:47:05,670coder, no note 2023 from Borlaugthrough pod verse says wanted to167701:47:05,670 --> 01:47:08,010start the new year right. Youtoo are a gift and an167801:47:08,010 --> 01:47:09,600inspiration. Oh,167901:47:10,020 --> 01:47:11,640all Thank you. Thank you somuch.168001:47:13,710 --> 01:47:21,390From me 26,000 sets use throughthe app use social don't see168101:47:21,390 --> 01:47:23,370that very much. I forgot aboutuse social. Is168201:47:23,370 --> 01:47:28,530that the one that's on umbrella?Yeah. Oh, very cool. That's one168301:47:28,530 --> 01:47:30,630of the first ones overseen fromeusocial.168401:47:31,080 --> 01:47:34,890Me too. And I don't know who meis. But whoever you are, you168501:47:34,890 --> 01:47:35,190know who?168601:47:35,459 --> 01:47:36,479Thank you. You168701:47:37,200 --> 01:47:41,280build up Prag 2500 SATs throughpod friend. I think he's a hive168801:47:41,280 --> 01:47:45,240guy. Right? I think you could besays there's a simple solution168901:47:45,240 --> 01:47:49,080for comments. But it would bedecentralized and forever. It169001:47:49,080 --> 01:47:52,260already works on 20 Plus socialfriends that I know this year.169101:47:54,510 --> 01:47:57,510Okay, this is the way that I'vegot started is there is a169201:47:57,510 --> 01:48:00,690solution for this. And then theygo on to describe it and then169301:48:00,690 --> 01:48:03,450they end up with the punch line.It's Hi everyone can send a rate169401:48:03,450 --> 01:48:07,980a pod thing everyone can send orsee a comment. Yes. Thank you,169501:48:07,980 --> 01:48:12,390Bill. Appreciate that. 6969through pod verse from a citizen169601:48:12,840 --> 01:48:17,370sending GNU Linux and SoftwareFreedom karma your way for 2023169701:48:17,460 --> 01:48:18,840The year of Linux desktop.169801:48:19,140 --> 01:48:22,230I'm going to save you and I'mgoing to say I heard you say169901:48:22,230 --> 01:48:25,320good new Linux I'm pretty sureyou didn't say GNU I heard you170001:48:25,320 --> 01:48:28,230say good new canoe? Yes. Let'sbecause if you don't say good170101:48:28,230 --> 01:48:31,530new Richard Stallman will comeover and fart in your room or170201:48:31,530 --> 01:48:36,810something. It's like very, veryparanoid about pronouncing that170301:48:36,810 --> 01:48:37,320correctly.170401:48:37,800 --> 01:48:39,090Get yes said that. Yes.170501:48:39,600 --> 01:48:40,740I heard you know. Yeah.170601:48:41,939 --> 01:48:46,109Another 6969 from a citizen. Thepod verse he says boosting170701:48:46,109 --> 01:48:51,239because I love it when Dave sayshey, citizen. We'll keep it up.170801:48:53,459 --> 01:49:00,539Let's see you got a couplelowball SC 54321 from Roy. Phil.170901:49:00,539 --> 01:49:05,069Hello Roy. And he says this Hesays this is bug bounty for171001:49:05,069 --> 01:49:05,549Adam.171101:49:07,649 --> 01:49:08,849Made some bug bounty.171201:49:10,380 --> 01:49:11,520Thank you Roger one.171301:49:12,360 --> 01:49:15,870Please stop calling me just stopis too much. I can't handle all171401:49:15,870 --> 01:49:16,500the calls.171501:49:17,070 --> 01:49:19,950All the all the nonexisting callhe keeps avoiding171601:49:19,950 --> 01:49:21,780me. I don't know he only wantsto talk to you and I don't want171701:49:21,780 --> 01:49:24,030to happen. It's gonna make funof his slippers.171801:49:24,960 --> 01:49:29,970Mint lion through. This is oneof breezes random Rando names.171901:49:30,090 --> 01:49:35,1006666. And he says are thebeautiful Aussie drawl of James172001:49:35,250 --> 01:49:38,550filled me with national pride.Great guest to kick off the new172101:49:38,550 --> 01:49:41,550year Karen. Guessing this forMere Mortals.172201:49:41,580 --> 01:49:42,660Thank you Kira, buddy.172301:49:43,320 --> 01:49:47,550I also have a make good fromKaren. Last week and he called172401:49:47,550 --> 01:49:51,600me out on it. I got the timingwrong when I dumped the boosts172501:49:51,600 --> 01:49:57,570and it says he sent 148,000 SATslast week that I missed Hold172601:49:57,570 --> 01:49:58,350on a second172701:49:58,380 --> 01:50:03,330follow up shot How long 20 isblades? Only him. Paula172801:50:03,330 --> 01:50:03,810goodness.172901:50:03,810 --> 01:50:04,410Thank you.173001:50:04,830 --> 01:50:08,280Yeah, and I'm really I'm sorryabout that, Karen. He says173101:50:08,280 --> 01:50:12,090regarding ethics, I'm certainlymore generous care more about173201:50:12,090 --> 01:50:14,550making a great product for myaudience. And most importantly,173301:50:14,820 --> 01:50:17,670didn't have to sell my soulthrough advertising or paywalls173401:50:17,970 --> 01:50:21,120or x before finding out aboutthe V four V model. And that's173501:50:21,120 --> 01:50:24,270all due to YouTube andpodcasting tip window. Happy New173601:50:24,270 --> 01:50:28,350Year to you both and I'm superexcited for podcasting in 2023173701:50:28,620 --> 01:50:29,400value for173801:50:29,400 --> 01:50:30,570value dot info.173901:50:31,020 --> 01:50:35,010I'm sorry about missing thatcurrent. Let's see Brian of174001:50:35,010 --> 01:50:38,280London in the hive Dao 118,801sets.174101:50:40,229 --> 01:50:44,039Shot call our 20th blades on amPaul out174201:50:44,040 --> 01:50:45,210some good boost today.174301:50:45,810 --> 01:50:49,560He says bit of a catch updonation though my main hive Dao174401:50:49,560 --> 01:50:53,250funding has reduced quite a bit.But as Freddy saying The show174501:50:53,250 --> 01:50:55,110must go on. I'd174601:50:55,110 --> 01:50:57,360love to understand how thatworks. I mean, what why did the174701:50:57,360 --> 01:51:00,390funding reduce? Do you have anyidea how that works? Or what the174801:51:00,390 --> 01:51:05,910deal is? I don't like he's doingmore work than ever. I don't174901:51:05,910 --> 01:51:06,420understand.175001:51:06,630 --> 01:51:14,400I can explain. Okay. Basically,the funny he got was voted on by175101:51:14,400 --> 01:51:19,740the have community. And I thinkhis his renewal of that project175201:51:21,330 --> 01:51:25,260is either up for grabs or itdidn't happen.175301:51:27,300 --> 01:51:30,480Does that mean he loses all thefunding? Or does it just reduce175401:51:31,590 --> 01:51:38,760it? He loses the thickets dailyor monthly income? Hmm.175501:51:39,600 --> 01:51:45,030What but I don't want Brian ofLondon funding pod ping hive HBD175601:51:45,030 --> 01:51:46,440stuff out of his own pocket?175701:51:46,770 --> 01:51:50,580No, no, he doesn't. Just whenyou send a pod paying, you don't175801:51:50,580 --> 01:51:55,770actually spend any currency. Sohe's already got all that. The175901:51:55,770 --> 01:52:00,030only we're the only word wewould have there as if piping176001:52:00,030 --> 01:52:04,020usage increased in. We had tohelp contribute to that.176101:52:04,950 --> 01:52:06,060Brian, let us know.176201:52:06,810 --> 01:52:10,290Which I'm happy to do I mean,you know, we Yeah, I'm happy.176301:52:10,320 --> 01:52:16,500We're happy to do that. Let'ssee. Oh, here we go. Blueberry.176401:52:16,530 --> 01:52:21,87017 776 through boost CLI and hesays he gets a link here. He176501:52:21,870 --> 01:52:24,780says I don't know what to dowith or where to use these176601:52:24,780 --> 01:52:28,140audiograms but they are fun tomake. He gives a plug verse176701:52:28,140 --> 01:52:32,580link. I don't know how to. Maybewe can post this in the show176801:52:32,580 --> 01:52:33,150notes or something.176901:52:33,180 --> 01:52:34,410I'm seeing if I can find it.177001:52:35,309 --> 01:52:40,679Okay, and the delimiter comicstrip blogger 33,015 SAS through177101:52:40,679 --> 01:52:44,909fountain he says dearest Dave,and artful Adam cumin kind is177201:52:44,909 --> 01:52:47,939indebted to your rejuvenation ofpodcasting, which will have a177301:52:47,939 --> 01:52:51,569lasting effect upon the fate ofour children's children. Well,177401:52:51,959 --> 01:52:55,709your ingenuity will even crossover into emerging technological177501:52:55,709 --> 01:52:59,369sentience. So do keep tabs onthe blossoming spirit of177601:52:59,369 --> 01:53:03,269artificial intelligence with AIduck cooking the podcast recited177701:53:03,269 --> 01:53:05,399by your boy Guth, yo.177801:53:06,840 --> 01:53:12,750Well, that link leads to a clipon pod verse and that clip is177901:53:12,780 --> 01:53:16,260why use pod verse. I will putthat in the show notes. How nice178001:53:16,260 --> 01:53:18,240is that? Oh, that is nice.178101:53:18,689 --> 01:53:23,159You might want to listen to itfor I think I heard this clip.178201:53:23,189 --> 01:53:24,179I agree I178301:53:26,220 --> 01:53:28,110would really is that what thescreenshots178401:53:33,600 --> 01:53:36,330so would you like me to not postthis clip? Mitch?178501:53:36,540 --> 01:53:41,190Oh, it's up to you. I'm justblueberries a prankster.178601:53:41,220 --> 01:53:46,350So okay, well, it's it appearsto be from our show. Yeah,178701:53:46,950 --> 01:53:48,150Alex said I concur.178801:53:49,979 --> 01:53:53,009Cookies, blueberries alwaysdoing innovative things with the178901:53:53,009 --> 01:53:56,339show art. Their show behind thescenes, like just has these179001:53:56,339 --> 01:53:59,489really cool animated gifts thatthey they make themselves and179101:53:59,489 --> 01:54:03,089they you know, he puts them inas the chapter artwork and179201:54:03,089 --> 01:54:04,649stuff. It's really something tosee if you179301:54:04,650 --> 01:54:07,890I mean, I just I just saw it. Isaw the V for V logo dancing179401:54:07,890 --> 01:54:08,370around.179501:54:09,450 --> 01:54:13,530He did yeah. Yeah, he did that.And you should play an episode179601:54:13,620 --> 01:54:17,490of Behind the scheme some timeand on the website and or the179701:54:17,490 --> 01:54:21,060mobile app and check thechapters because he has a lot of179801:54:21,060 --> 01:54:23,220animated gifts that I think hemakes himself.179901:54:24,000 --> 01:54:27,060Yeah, very cool. It's it's afeast for the eyes for sure.180001:54:27,090 --> 01:54:30,630I love those guys. Man. That'sinsane. The stuff they're doing180101:54:30,780 --> 01:54:34,260really is they've grabbed thelip stuff by the horns.180201:54:35,490 --> 01:54:40,110And we've got let's see, we'vegot some monthlies. We get Chad180301:54:40,110 --> 01:54:44,970Pharaoh $22 Excuse me $20.20Caught Jalbert $12 Martin Linda180401:54:44,970 --> 01:54:51,150scope would $1 Mark Graham $1Joseph maraca $5 Jeremy knew $5180501:54:51,150 --> 01:54:53,190And Cameron Rose $25 And that'sour group.180601:54:53,639 --> 01:54:57,449Thank you all so very, very muchand today's booster grams and180701:54:57,449 --> 01:55:01,319streaming payments will be splitbetween The usual suspects who180801:55:01,319 --> 01:55:05,369have helped us out with thisprogram, including Dred Scott180901:55:05,369 --> 01:55:09,059for the chapters, and obviously,our two guests here in the181001:55:09,059 --> 01:55:12,539boardroom, Alex and Mitch. Andso you guys have to make sure181101:55:12,539 --> 01:55:15,599that you send me your lightningaddresses, so that I can181201:55:15,659 --> 01:55:20,819implement that upon publishing.Sure, value for value. That's181301:55:20,849 --> 01:55:24,209how this whole project works. Ifit's something of value to you181401:55:24,239 --> 01:55:27,479determine what it is, accordingto your own pocketbook, send it181501:55:27,479 --> 01:55:29,939back to us, you can do it in anumber of ways you could the181601:55:29,939 --> 01:55:32,969number one way is to go to thatnow functioning new podcast181701:55:32,969 --> 01:55:38,159apps.com. The website and thenyou can find many different181801:55:38,159 --> 01:55:42,209podcasts, apps, you heard onehere today, pod verse that181901:55:42,209 --> 01:55:45,989actually will send this valueback to the to all the people182001:55:45,989 --> 01:55:49,139involved in the project. You canalso go to podcast index.org at182101:55:49,139 --> 01:55:52,499the bottom, the requisite reddonation button, which leads you182201:55:52,499 --> 01:55:56,219to our Fiat fun coupon, PayPallink and also tally coin,182301:55:56,519 --> 01:55:59,519believe it or not that Tina andI got a tally coin donation the182401:55:59,519 --> 01:56:02,099other day as someone actuallywas able to do it. And it182501:56:02,099 --> 01:56:02,609worked.182601:56:03,060 --> 01:56:04,470I'm just glad the site works.182701:56:06,210 --> 01:56:08,790Glad anything works. Really.It's amazing. any of this stuff182801:56:08,790 --> 01:56:12,150works. All right. Should we wrapthis up gems anything for the182901:56:12,150 --> 01:56:12,870round table?183001:56:13,500 --> 01:56:17,820Yes, I just want to say how muchI appreciate, I think. And I183101:56:17,820 --> 01:56:22,170hope both of you Alex and Mitch,hope both of you know how much I183201:56:22,170 --> 01:56:25,770appreciate you all and whatyou'll do. Just glad. Just glad183301:56:25,770 --> 01:56:27,030to be a part of it. It's justfun.183401:56:28,710 --> 01:56:32,100Yeah, yes. Small, small request.183501:56:32,670 --> 01:56:34,710roundtable question for thegentleman. Yes.183601:56:34,710 --> 01:56:37,980So the one thing now that thepopping news is kind of you183701:56:37,980 --> 01:56:41,220know, in the past, one thingthat we didn't talk about was a183801:56:41,220 --> 01:56:44,940new version of pod Ping wasplaylists. I know I'm, I'm183901:56:44,940 --> 01:56:47,910always like a year ahead on thisstuff. But if you're a184001:56:47,910 --> 01:56:52,950developer, you're interested,reach out to us so we can test184101:56:52,950 --> 01:56:55,260it out. Now before we finalizethe spec for the newspaper.184201:56:55,740 --> 01:57:02,280And playlists would be mostusable for the medium tag music,184301:57:03,270 --> 01:57:06,090music and maybe video, I'm goingto do it for peer tube as well.184401:57:06,120 --> 01:57:09,810So do playlists that gonna isthat going to be in your code184501:57:09,840 --> 01:57:13,590for the for the new stuff thatyou're you're pushing into peer184601:57:13,590 --> 01:57:16,740to do not know yet. Okay.184701:57:17,730 --> 01:57:20,430What what specifically, are youdo you have a concern that184801:57:20,430 --> 01:57:22,350you're trying to tease out?184901:57:22,380 --> 01:57:25,770No, I just I it's a brand newidea. And I would like feedback.185001:57:25,770 --> 01:57:27,540I know it's President space.185101:57:28,740 --> 01:57:30,330And where do they go?185201:57:32,370 --> 01:57:36,120To they go to the remote islandproposal, I think, in the185301:57:36,120 --> 01:57:41,250GitHub. Yeah, and the list,mediums and remote item and get185401:57:41,250 --> 01:57:42,960up yet. All right.185501:57:43,140 --> 01:57:45,720And of course, you can alwayspost something on podcasts index185601:57:45,720 --> 01:57:48,540dot social or if your client isnot banned because of our185701:57:48,540 --> 01:57:53,370libertarian crypto ways. Weshould be able to federate just185801:57:53,370 --> 01:57:54,180fine with you.185901:57:54,300 --> 01:57:55,650sipto Tyrians.186001:57:56,399 --> 01:58:01,349Oh, wait a minute. Hold on asecond. crypto. Terrans. Dang,186101:58:01,380 --> 01:58:03,120that'll get you blockedeverywhere.186201:58:03,180 --> 01:58:08,370I need to have that domain name.That's what I need. One last186301:58:08,370 --> 01:58:14,040thing here. Martin, Linda's Kochasked if we got his late 2022186401:58:14,040 --> 01:58:17,190boosts ram of 123456 Satoshis.186501:58:18,840 --> 01:58:25,560Did you get my late 2022?histogram of 123456? I don't. I186601:58:25,560 --> 01:58:25,950don't186701:58:25,950 --> 01:58:29,010know. Know if we got that oneI'm looking for well, we weren't186801:58:29,010 --> 01:58:30,210for sure. I'll give you a186901:58:33,120 --> 01:58:35,220blade on am Paula.187001:58:35,310 --> 01:58:36,270There you go. No,187101:58:36,420 --> 01:58:37,980I just wrote it down. I'll gofind it.187201:58:37,980 --> 01:58:40,590We'll go find it. Gentlemen,thank you very much appreciate187301:58:40,590 --> 01:58:45,000all of you. And it's going to beanother stellar year as187401:58:45,000 --> 01:58:48,360certainly as advertising fallsapart. There's a number of links187501:58:48,360 --> 01:58:52,140in the show notes that we didn'tdiscuss today, but interesting187601:58:52,140 --> 01:58:56,400to watch regardless. And I'll beon Rogen this month. I'm really187701:58:56,400 --> 01:58:58,290going to see if I can get himinterested in talking about187801:58:58,290 --> 01:59:02,280podcasting. 2.0 This time, I'mnot sure. But I'm gonna try. I'm187901:59:02,280 --> 01:59:03,600gonna try. We just188001:59:03,599 --> 01:59:07,649need to get him moved over therenotes in the tube and in Watch,188101:59:08,189 --> 01:59:09,719watch the Linode meltdown.188201:59:11,370 --> 01:59:12,570Zone peer to that's what I'mdoing.188301:59:13,170 --> 01:59:17,910Let me let me tell you, it'sunwatchable on Spotify. They I188401:59:17,910 --> 01:59:21,750pay for Spotify. They interruptthe video every 10 minutes with188501:59:21,750 --> 01:59:25,020an ad that has audio thosepeople are stupid over there. I188601:59:25,020 --> 01:59:27,300don't know what they're doing.But they don't understand user188701:59:27,300 --> 01:59:30,540experience is really reallydebilitating. If you notice that188801:59:30,540 --> 01:59:33,960have you ever watched this videowith those interruptions?188901:59:34,320 --> 01:59:39,750No, I haven't defined it andRogen show yeah. And I don't I189001:59:39,750 --> 01:59:41,880don't really listen to it unlessyou're on it. So I don't I don't189101:59:41,880 --> 01:59:42,570have any experience189201:59:42,570 --> 01:59:45,240with it. Well, don't worry,you'll be experiencing that189301:59:45,270 --> 01:59:50,850within a few weeks. You'll seeevery 10 minutes Hey, I use you189401:59:50,850 --> 01:59:52,230know some great vitamins.189501:59:54,390 --> 01:59:58,800If he shows up on in a tube nowlet's just sudo shutdown dash H189601:59:58,800 --> 02:00:01,410now. Walk away.189702:00:01,560 --> 02:00:03,690Alright everybody. Thanks againguys really appreciate it. Have189802:00:03,690 --> 02:00:04,950yourselves a great weekend.189902:00:06,330 --> 02:00:07,380Thanks so much. You too.190002:00:08,820 --> 02:00:12,060All right, Dave. Take it easybrother. See you man. Give me190102:00:12,060 --> 02:00:15,990some tools I want to help out.Make it as you're on. Yeah.190202:00:17,010 --> 02:00:19,020That's it for the board meetingeverybody. We'll see you next190302:00:19,020 --> 02:00:21,600week right here for podcasting2.0190402:00:37,170 --> 02:00:41,700You have been listening topodcasting 2.0 Visit podcast190502:00:41,700 --> 02:00:44,370index.com For more information190602:00:46,680 --> 02:00:48,210what is Blaze own