Episode 229: DataBase Story Time

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Podcasting 2.0 for August 8th, 2025, episode

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229, Database Storytime.

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We are back in the saddle, ready to

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rock and roll.

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Let's roll.

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Let's go, everybody.

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We get to do this this time, once

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again, for the official board meeting of Podcasting

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2.0. What's that?

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It's a name?

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Oh, I'm sorry.

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This is where we come together to talk

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about the future of podcasting, what's happening right

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now, and we always reminisce.

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We are, in fact, the only boardroom where

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talk is cheap and code matters.

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I'm Adam Curry, here in the heart of

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the Texas Hill Country, and in Alabama, the

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man who will track down your user agent,

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whoever you are.

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Say hello to my friend on the other

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end, the one, the only, the pod sage,

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Mr. Dan Jones.

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So, like, right after I posted using DJL's

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fancy link, podcasting2.org slash live, which redirects

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to episodes.fm slash something, something, something, something,

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that I can never remember and always screw

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up.

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Right after I posted that, Nathan posted, Dave,

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FYI, the podcasting2.org slash live link will

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now redirect to pod.link slash podcasting2.0

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.live. Oh, he's got the link thing integrated.

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That's cool.

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He re-inherited pod.link. How does that

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even work?

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What exactly happened?

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I mean, so they bought it from him

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and then they just gave it back?

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Is that how that, did he have to,

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like, write them a check?

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How does that work?

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They're like, look, we really haven't done anything

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with this thing.

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You can just have it back.

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That is amazing.

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I'd love to sell a business like that.

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To sell your business like that is fantastic.

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It's probably just a handshake deal, you know.

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That's probably not what it was.

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No, I'm doubting it.

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I don't think so.

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I don't think so.

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How you doing, brother?

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I'm doing pretty good right now, actually.

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Yeah.

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Been a tough week at the office.

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Tough week, yeah, tough week.

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Well, at least you're not working at Wondery.

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I still have a job.

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Talk about a tough week for those guys.

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I've got impressions on that.

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I mean, we don't, ultimately, it's not really

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our wheelhouse about inside baseball and stuff like

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that.

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Well, it's relevant only for one reason.

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Because Amazon said, well, you know, podcasting's moving

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towards video anyway, so we might as well

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shut this down.

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Which was bullcrap.

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Or reorg or whatever they were saying.

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I agree with James.

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That is, that's just complete, that's just a

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made up thing to say in public.

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The sad thing of all this video talk

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is that we kind of overlook what it's

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really about.

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And, you know, considering some of the talk

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that went on podcastindex.social between me and

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Dave Weiner about a name.

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I don't know if you caught any of

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that.

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No, I totally missed that.

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Is there something that happened on the...

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Yeah, something happened.

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I totally missed it.

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I'm kind of glad I did, because I

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was on edge all week.

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It would have tipped you over, man.

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Bill, you've been like, yeah, you pull out

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the razor blade.

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No, no, you get in the tub, pulling

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the Leonard Cohen record in the toaster.

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Yeah, you're good.

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No, we're not going to do that.

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Splish.

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I was, you know, I subscribed to his

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podcast.

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Which is your first mistake.

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Well, no, I find him very interesting to

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listen to, the things that he's talking about.

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The most interesting is if you look at

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his arc of AI, it went from, ChatGBT

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is the most awesome coding partner ever, to,

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I tell this thing to not do it,

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and it doesn't give me answers, and it

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goes off and does things over here, and

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then changes things, like, that sounds about right.

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That's pretty much what it is.

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That's a common arc with AI.

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Yeah, exactly.

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But he had a podcast, and he was

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talking about, if only there was an API,

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if only there was an API that could

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do some things, you know, and his idea

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was, it was actually, it was an interesting

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thought, and that's why I reached out to

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him on the Mastodon.

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Your second mistake?

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Well, no, not really.

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It's, I'm fine.

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I pray for people like him.

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You know, I asked, God.

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Yeah, praying for him is not the mistake.

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Talking to him on social media is the

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mistake.

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You're right.

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After the talking comes the praying.

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Okay.

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God, forgive him for he knows not what

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he does.

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The idea was, you know, there was a

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New York Times article, like, who reads that?

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But he reads that.

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He said, here's the top eight podcasts to

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listen to.

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And he said, you know, I'm never going

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to do that because, you know, I listen

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to it in the car, and if there

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was just an API that just had a

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button, and then it could automatically subscribe my

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podcast app, use Pocket Casts to those eight

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shows.

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I'm like, oh, you know, I'll just say,

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you know, hey, Dave, you had an interesting

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idea.

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I just want you to know there is

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an API.

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And, and, you know, we actively develop for

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endpoints.

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And, you know, if you have an idea,

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you know, let's, don't, don't.

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I already know that.

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I already know the end of the story.

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Okay.

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Hit me, hit me with the end.

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Well, it's, the thing with Dave is, if

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he didn't build it, then it's, then it's

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shit.

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So.

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No, no, no.

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That was, no, that wasn't it.

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No.

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It's like the insidious nature of calling something

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podcasting 2.0. I will never work with

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anyone who did that ever.

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Okay.

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Oh yeah.

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Yeah.

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Yeah.

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Whatever.

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All right.

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RSS 2.0. Okay.

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It was, yeah, whatever.

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It's like, meanwhile, he's, he's trying to get

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the attention of the, the WordPress people who

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literally stole blogging from him, but okay, that's

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fine.

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Whatever.

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Yeah.

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And call it WordPress.

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Um, it's all good.

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Oh, you need a pod ping.

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I'm sorry.

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Good point.

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Everybody.

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I'm sorry.

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Give me a ping.

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I was all wrapped up.

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Wrapped up.

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Hold on.

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My mistake.

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Here we go.

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I do love my pod ping.

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Done.

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Um, no.

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So back to the, the problem that everyone

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is kind of overlooking is what Google is

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really doing.

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They're not hijacking a name.

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They are kind of, you know, RSS.

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I mean, podcasting, but that's what they're really

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hijacking.

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I gave away the punchline.

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They're hijacking RSS.

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They want to kill RSS based podcasting.

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That is their true, whether they even the

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people on the front line know it or

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not.

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That has always been the nature of Google.

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You know, just think even the whole concept

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of a feed comes from RSS feeds comes

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from the name.

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Oh, it's my timeline, my feed.

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That was always an aggregator led, um, uh,

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feature from back in the day, Google reader,

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which they ran and saw, holy crap, this

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is no good.

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And of course they went to, uh, was

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it Google plus Google circles, uh, you know,

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all these, all these other, and they, and

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they shut down Google reader, which effective circles.

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Wasn't it Google circles?

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You had a circle of friends and Google

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squares.

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You're my little yellow circle.

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And I don't know, it was very complicated.

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Typical engineers are going to build a great

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product.

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No offense.

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Um, and, and so what they're doing here,

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and I would say they're, they're even stupid

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because what they should do is just say,

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oh, okay, all your RSS feeds now just

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work.

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And when you, and when you updated updates

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and when you, and when you change something,

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it changes and then they should cut it

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off.

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You know, that's what they did with Google

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reader, but they're not even that mean anymore.

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Not, not that I think they've, the smart

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people have left the building, but that's really

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what it is.

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They do not want a user controlled feed

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experience.

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You're talking about Amazon.

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No, I'm talking about, no, I'm talking about

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Google.

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Now this is video.

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I'm talking about video in general.

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This is not a video thing.

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This is, yeah, YouTube does video, but we

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know from, from the, from the actual numbers

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that 70% of people, uh, quote unquote,

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watching a podcast are actually listening to it.

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And they may glance at it from time

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to time, but, and they may start off

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watching, but then they just put it in

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their pocket.

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Then they're listening.

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That's, that's, uh, what was that survey we

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had?

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Oh, nice.

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What are you drinking?

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Oh, what is, this is a wixie wixie

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pomegranate green tea sparkling water.

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That sounds like chemicals, chemicals, baby.

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No, this is chemical free.

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No, he's sure.

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Does it have natural flavors?

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Look on the can.

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Let's see.

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Carbonated water, uh, natural, no organic flavors.

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Oh, well that's different.

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Okay.

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Organic flavors.

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Nice.

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00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:21,640
Yeah.

279
00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:24,240
If it comes from nature, it can't kill

280
00:09:24,240 --> 00:09:24,420
you.

281
00:09:24,460 --> 00:09:24,960
That's right.

282
00:09:25,000 --> 00:09:26,260
But that's different than organic.

283
00:09:28,160 --> 00:09:30,640
Um, so that's, that's really what's happening.

284
00:09:32,780 --> 00:09:35,220
And, uh, and I, and I say this

285
00:09:35,220 --> 00:09:38,740
because when people see the true power of

286
00:09:38,740 --> 00:09:42,200
RSS, which I, I witnessed this in this

287
00:09:42,200 --> 00:09:43,660
past week, when we were off, I was

288
00:09:43,660 --> 00:09:47,380
in Florida, um, at a conference and I

289
00:09:47,380 --> 00:09:50,720
was speaking in front of influential pastors.

290
00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:54,900
Who have all sides, different size churches, but

291
00:09:54,900 --> 00:09:56,600
they have a, their group is about two,

292
00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:57,680
two and a half thousand.

293
00:09:58,620 --> 00:10:00,680
And I was showing them the stuff we're

294
00:10:00,680 --> 00:10:01,780
doing with Godcaster.

295
00:10:03,280 --> 00:10:05,720
And, and it was like magic to them.

296
00:10:05,780 --> 00:10:06,860
You know, I said, well, you know, so

297
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:07,800
you have a podcast.

298
00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:10,060
Well, no, you can now add it to

299
00:10:10,060 --> 00:10:13,660
this, uh, to this church's, uh, Godcaster station.

300
00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,620
But you know, it can also add it

301
00:10:16,620 --> 00:10:17,060
over here.

302
00:10:17,120 --> 00:10:18,860
It's like they, it couldn't believe it.

303
00:10:18,900 --> 00:10:20,320
You don't have to upload over there.

304
00:10:20,420 --> 00:10:21,220
You know, I don't understand.

305
00:10:21,220 --> 00:10:22,500
I don't have to call them.

306
00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:25,440
No, no, it's, it's syndication.

307
00:10:27,140 --> 00:10:28,940
And I was like, are you familiar with

308
00:10:28,940 --> 00:10:30,040
Dr. Rick Scarborough?

309
00:10:32,940 --> 00:10:34,700
He's a, he's like in his seventies.

310
00:10:34,780 --> 00:10:40,040
He's a pretty well-known guy, uh, uh,

311
00:10:40,620 --> 00:10:41,480
former pastor.

312
00:10:41,560 --> 00:10:42,960
He's written a ton of books.

313
00:10:43,980 --> 00:10:45,180
Anyway, I don't think I am.

314
00:10:45,260 --> 00:10:47,620
So, uh, he's in the audience and he

315
00:10:47,620 --> 00:10:48,180
asked a question.

316
00:10:48,240 --> 00:10:50,520
He said, how long should a podcast be?

317
00:10:50,520 --> 00:10:53,040
And I said, until it's boring, everyone laughs.

318
00:10:54,420 --> 00:10:56,100
But, you know, they actually left the room

319
00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:58,560
like crap that I just offend Rick Scarborough.

320
00:10:58,800 --> 00:10:59,280
Sort of boring.

321
00:10:59,720 --> 00:11:01,960
So, so, so I, I cornered, actually kind

322
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:04,620
of cornered me, uh, right after that.

323
00:11:04,660 --> 00:11:05,580
I said, well, I want to show you

324
00:11:05,580 --> 00:11:05,820
something.

325
00:11:05,820 --> 00:11:07,640
And he shows me, he has this, uh,

326
00:11:07,640 --> 00:11:09,500
this feature called my take.

327
00:11:09,540 --> 00:11:11,100
And it's like a minute and a half

328
00:11:11,100 --> 00:11:14,120
and it's weekly and it's his take on

329
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:14,820
current affairs.

330
00:11:14,820 --> 00:11:17,460
And it airs on hundreds of radio stations.

331
00:11:18,120 --> 00:11:19,520
They said, uh, this is not a podcast,

332
00:11:19,520 --> 00:11:20,040
is it?

333
00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:22,320
I said, that's exactly what a podcast is.

334
00:11:22,340 --> 00:11:23,000
Do you have a feed?

335
00:11:23,100 --> 00:11:23,320
No.

336
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:24,800
Said, okay.

337
00:11:25,100 --> 00:11:26,640
So I created a feed for him, actually.

338
00:11:26,740 --> 00:11:27,660
I'm just like, this is too good.

339
00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,100
And I just scraped it right off his

340
00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:30,920
website with a script and creates a feed.

341
00:11:32,160 --> 00:11:35,100
Uh, and so I realized that what Google

342
00:11:35,100 --> 00:11:37,500
and YouTube are doing by telling people a

343
00:11:37,500 --> 00:11:39,460
podcast is a bunch of people sitting around

344
00:11:39,460 --> 00:11:41,860
a table with headphones on and microphones, and

345
00:11:41,860 --> 00:11:42,720
it's always video.

346
00:11:42,720 --> 00:11:47,120
It has detracted from the true beauty of

347
00:11:47,120 --> 00:11:49,680
what RSS-based podcasting is.

348
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:52,360
And when you take a little bit of

349
00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:53,900
time, just a little bit of time to

350
00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:57,460
explain to people the syndication nature of it,

351
00:11:58,320 --> 00:12:03,640
they start to understand, wait a minute, I

352
00:12:03,640 --> 00:12:04,820
can do more with this.

353
00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:06,500
There's more things that can be done.

354
00:12:07,040 --> 00:12:11,500
And so one of our customers, actually, High

355
00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:14,660
Point Church in Lake Wales, Florida, they have

356
00:12:14,660 --> 00:12:15,120
a team.

357
00:12:15,860 --> 00:12:17,160
And so they're Godcaster.

358
00:12:17,320 --> 00:12:18,360
And just for those of you who don't

359
00:12:18,360 --> 00:12:22,440
know, Godcaster is basically a digital podcast app

360
00:12:22,440 --> 00:12:24,960
that, in this case, the church controls what

361
00:12:24,960 --> 00:12:28,800
content is in there for the congregation.

362
00:12:29,180 --> 00:12:30,160
And it's a combination.

363
00:12:30,260 --> 00:12:31,460
It can be live streams.

364
00:12:31,640 --> 00:12:33,480
It can be, you know, all kinds.

365
00:12:33,540 --> 00:12:36,100
But it's mainly podcast, RSS podcast based.

366
00:12:36,100 --> 00:12:37,980
It's very easy for them to type in

367
00:12:37,980 --> 00:12:39,620
some names, you pull it up, and these

368
00:12:39,620 --> 00:12:40,860
are the things that I want people to

369
00:12:40,860 --> 00:12:41,180
hear.

370
00:12:41,320 --> 00:12:42,520
Or I did a sermon, I wanted to

371
00:12:42,520 --> 00:12:43,700
listen to this guy, et cetera.

372
00:12:45,760 --> 00:12:47,680
And it clicked for these people.

373
00:12:48,040 --> 00:12:50,720
So wait, why don't we call ourselves Providence

374
00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:51,140
Voice?

375
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:51,860
So they're branding.

376
00:12:51,960 --> 00:12:52,680
I like that idea.

377
00:12:53,380 --> 00:12:56,180
And they said, you know, how do we

378
00:12:56,180 --> 00:12:58,780
get Sally, who goes to all the board

379
00:12:58,780 --> 00:13:00,500
meetings, the school board meetings, how do we

380
00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:03,400
get her to do a report and add

381
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:04,220
it to our station?

382
00:13:04,220 --> 00:13:05,700
And this is where the light bulb went

383
00:13:05,700 --> 00:13:06,360
off for me.

384
00:13:06,980 --> 00:13:09,400
I'm like, oh, well, you just need to

385
00:13:09,400 --> 00:13:10,380
put it into a feed.

386
00:13:10,860 --> 00:13:13,120
And so I think they use, I don't

387
00:13:13,120 --> 00:13:14,820
know if they use RSS.com or Buzzsprout,

388
00:13:15,100 --> 00:13:18,680
but they do some feed creation with some

389
00:13:18,680 --> 00:13:19,200
podcasts.

390
00:13:19,260 --> 00:13:21,200
And they said, wait, so I just make

391
00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:24,380
that like two minute report, a podcast?

392
00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:25,140
I say, yeah.

393
00:13:25,740 --> 00:13:26,900
Yeah, for sure.

394
00:13:26,960 --> 00:13:29,660
And then they started to understand the power

395
00:13:29,660 --> 00:13:31,940
of this, how simple it is to manage

396
00:13:31,940 --> 00:13:38,820
an entire local, hyperlocal actually, resource that people

397
00:13:38,820 --> 00:13:39,620
can listen to.

398
00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:41,080
And of course, you know, we built channel

399
00:13:41,080 --> 00:13:44,100
streams, which turns a bunch of podcasts into

400
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:47,320
a live stream, you know, with links back

401
00:13:47,320 --> 00:13:48,660
to the original podcast.

402
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:50,180
So it's, you know, it's all the, all

403
00:13:50,180 --> 00:13:52,080
the things we built here at Podcasting 2

404
00:13:52,080 --> 00:13:55,460
.0, including a remote item.

405
00:13:56,160 --> 00:13:58,100
What's the other one that was, we almost

406
00:13:58,100 --> 00:13:58,920
forgot about them.

407
00:13:59,080 --> 00:14:01,140
The source, source tag, I think it is.

408
00:14:01,240 --> 00:14:01,540
Oh, yeah.

409
00:14:01,540 --> 00:14:05,520
Source tag, using all of those bits and

410
00:14:05,520 --> 00:14:05,940
bobs.

411
00:14:06,660 --> 00:14:08,580
And all of a sudden, you know, now

412
00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:10,240
these guys are seeing how they can link

413
00:14:10,240 --> 00:14:13,020
to each other and they don't really have

414
00:14:13,020 --> 00:14:14,340
to see an RSS feed.

415
00:14:14,440 --> 00:14:15,660
They just know that if I put it

416
00:14:15,660 --> 00:14:18,920
into this box and then I can pull

417
00:14:18,920 --> 00:14:20,480
it up over here, that's all they really

418
00:14:20,480 --> 00:14:20,840
see.

419
00:14:22,100 --> 00:14:24,860
And I was just like, the magic unfolding

420
00:14:24,860 --> 00:14:28,220
before me of how people are looking at

421
00:14:28,220 --> 00:14:31,960
podcasts, not as just a show that shows

422
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:34,820
up in a app, a app, an app,

423
00:14:35,020 --> 00:14:38,660
but the, the capability to connect these things

424
00:14:38,660 --> 00:14:42,260
together and make a, a bigger hole, kind

425
00:14:42,260 --> 00:14:43,740
of like I was talking about the, you

426
00:14:43,740 --> 00:14:45,040
know, the Rachel Maddow app.

427
00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:48,960
It's like their, their podcast app is very,

428
00:14:49,060 --> 00:14:49,640
very limited.

429
00:14:49,760 --> 00:14:51,780
You can't go around searching for stuff that

430
00:14:51,780 --> 00:14:52,980
they haven't made available.

431
00:14:54,720 --> 00:14:57,920
But the interlinking and all of these different

432
00:14:57,920 --> 00:15:01,340
pieces that fit together makes it a, a

433
00:15:01,340 --> 00:15:03,120
destination for people with it.

434
00:15:03,280 --> 00:15:04,900
And the destination has an opinion.

435
00:15:05,800 --> 00:15:08,080
And that opinion in this case is, you

436
00:15:08,080 --> 00:15:11,880
know, local politics and Jesus for Lake Wales.

437
00:15:12,420 --> 00:15:14,480
And, you know, the pastor also happens to

438
00:15:14,480 --> 00:15:15,040
be the mayor.

439
00:15:15,160 --> 00:15:17,160
So there's a lot of good things there.

440
00:15:17,780 --> 00:15:21,300
Um, and so, you know, if we stop

441
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:25,860
looking at RSS as just a mechanism to

442
00:15:25,860 --> 00:15:29,640
distribute a show, which is where everyone's stuck

443
00:15:29,640 --> 00:15:30,460
in that mode.

444
00:15:31,120 --> 00:15:32,560
And I've all, I think I've said this

445
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:34,260
for five years, we've been doing this project.

446
00:15:34,380 --> 00:15:35,580
Where is the innovation?

447
00:15:35,740 --> 00:15:39,220
Where's the, where's the completely crazy idea that

448
00:15:39,220 --> 00:15:41,220
is, yeah, it's an app, but it's not

449
00:15:41,220 --> 00:15:42,400
really a podcast app.

450
00:15:42,420 --> 00:15:44,260
It does something else very specific.

451
00:15:45,260 --> 00:15:49,100
And through, you know, whatever reason you and

452
00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:51,080
I wound up building that with Paul Bailey

453
00:15:51,080 --> 00:15:53,160
and with Gordon, we wound up building an

454
00:15:53,160 --> 00:15:54,640
actual app that does that.

455
00:15:55,420 --> 00:15:57,880
And it's just so beautiful to see.

456
00:15:58,000 --> 00:15:59,120
And you know what, you know, it never

457
00:15:59,120 --> 00:15:59,980
comes up in the conversation.

458
00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:02,680
Uh, does it do video?

459
00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:04,360
You know, people get it.

460
00:16:04,360 --> 00:16:05,700
It's like, oh, I'm listening to this stuff.

461
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:06,820
Oh, okay.

462
00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,940
So, you know, just, it's a, it's like

463
00:16:08,940 --> 00:16:12,020
this customized radio that we control all the

464
00:16:12,020 --> 00:16:13,740
programming and we don't have to be radio

465
00:16:13,740 --> 00:16:15,000
people to understand it.

466
00:16:15,220 --> 00:16:16,740
And it just kind of works and it

467
00:16:16,740 --> 00:16:19,200
updates automatically and they love it.

468
00:16:19,960 --> 00:16:21,360
They really, really love it.

469
00:16:21,380 --> 00:16:22,680
The only thing I would, I would think

470
00:16:22,680 --> 00:16:25,240
would be even better if like every, if

471
00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,480
you had a hosting account and you could

472
00:16:27,480 --> 00:16:29,460
add to it like a sub feed where

473
00:16:29,460 --> 00:16:31,340
you just like have an app on your

474
00:16:31,340 --> 00:16:31,760
phone.

475
00:16:32,480 --> 00:16:35,180
And, uh, actually kind of the idea that,

476
00:16:35,260 --> 00:16:39,320
uh, what was, uh, before Spotify bought it,

477
00:16:39,340 --> 00:16:40,100
what was that called?

478
00:16:41,780 --> 00:16:43,360
The hosting company they bought.

479
00:16:44,480 --> 00:16:44,880
Oh, Anchor.

480
00:16:45,180 --> 00:16:45,540
Yeah.

481
00:16:45,820 --> 00:16:47,860
So Anchor, didn't Anchor have an app and

482
00:16:47,860 --> 00:16:50,580
you could do a podcast on your phone

483
00:16:50,580 --> 00:16:52,120
and it was all crap.

484
00:16:52,420 --> 00:16:52,740
Remember that?

485
00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:53,000
Yeah.

486
00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:53,160
Yeah.

487
00:16:53,160 --> 00:16:55,220
You just fire up your, I mean, yeah,

488
00:16:55,220 --> 00:16:57,940
you would just like record yourself on the

489
00:16:57,940 --> 00:17:00,100
phone and then that, that was your episode.

490
00:17:00,280 --> 00:17:00,500
Right.

491
00:17:00,520 --> 00:17:00,780
Right.

492
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:03,599
So having that as like a sub account,

493
00:17:03,619 --> 00:17:06,260
so I can just have people I want

494
00:17:06,260 --> 00:17:09,720
associated with whatever I'm building with RSS just

495
00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:11,920
to hit something and then send and boom,

496
00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:13,079
it puts it in a feed and it's

497
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:13,280
done.

498
00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:14,859
I mean, I could build that myself technically,

499
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:16,540
but I'd like hosting people to be hosting

500
00:17:16,540 --> 00:17:16,980
people.

501
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:20,420
Um, there is so much, am I making

502
00:17:20,420 --> 00:17:21,180
any sense here?

503
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,359
Yeah, yeah, no, yeah, yeah, no, yeah, no,

504
00:17:25,460 --> 00:17:26,079
that's not an answer.

505
00:17:27,000 --> 00:17:27,900
Yeah, no, no, yeah.

506
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:30,260
Uh, yeah, you're making sense.

507
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:34,380
I think, let me, let me go backwards

508
00:17:34,380 --> 00:17:39,080
real quick because I think the, the vid,

509
00:17:39,160 --> 00:17:44,460
the video commentary was, uh, in the Wondery

510
00:17:44,460 --> 00:17:45,880
thing was a head fake.

511
00:17:46,040 --> 00:17:46,640
Yeah, of course.

512
00:17:48,460 --> 00:17:50,560
And, but I think, I think there's two,

513
00:17:50,640 --> 00:17:51,720
I just want to kind of go back

514
00:17:51,720 --> 00:17:53,340
to that real quick because I think that's,

515
00:17:55,610 --> 00:17:57,350
I don't know, my, my take on this

516
00:17:57,350 --> 00:18:01,880
was two, a couple of things.

517
00:18:03,720 --> 00:18:07,420
I think the primary hit of this news

518
00:18:07,420 --> 00:18:10,140
was with people in the podcast industry themselves.

519
00:18:10,580 --> 00:18:10,720
Sure.

520
00:18:11,720 --> 00:18:15,140
But there's a psychological aspect to it because

521
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:22,100
there's so much, since, uh, I don't know

522
00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,340
really when this started, maybe end of 2022,

523
00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:28,720
there's been so much negative news in the

524
00:18:28,720 --> 00:18:29,540
podcast world.

525
00:18:30,140 --> 00:18:32,220
There was only, there's only a few bright

526
00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:34,160
spots you could point to and Wondery was

527
00:18:34,160 --> 00:18:34,840
one of them.

528
00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,880
Wondery, you could say, okay, look, you could

529
00:18:37,880 --> 00:18:39,860
hold them up as the pedestal and say,

530
00:18:39,960 --> 00:18:43,640
on the pedestal and say, okay, Wondery is

531
00:18:43,640 --> 00:18:46,660
proof that if you do a podcast network

532
00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:50,720
right, you can be successful and make money.

533
00:18:51,920 --> 00:18:55,700
And when something like this happens, it's like

534
00:18:55,700 --> 00:18:56,740
you got rug pulled.

535
00:18:56,740 --> 00:18:58,920
I think there was someone who said that

536
00:18:58,920 --> 00:19:00,600
you can't monetize the network.

537
00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:01,860
Who was that guy?

538
00:19:02,020 --> 00:19:03,740
I'm trying to think who that was.

539
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:05,600
I vaguely remember that too.

540
00:19:05,660 --> 00:19:06,220
And I don't remember.

541
00:19:06,260 --> 00:19:07,780
I don't remember who that guy was.

542
00:19:07,860 --> 00:19:09,780
Very, very downer dude.

543
00:19:10,620 --> 00:19:11,440
Smart guy though.

544
00:19:11,940 --> 00:19:13,340
Well, when you have, what'd they have?

545
00:19:13,620 --> 00:19:14,620
300 people.

546
00:19:16,220 --> 00:19:17,940
Oh, did they have that many on staff?

547
00:19:18,080 --> 00:19:19,260
Well, they fired a hundred.

548
00:19:20,380 --> 00:19:20,780
Yeah.

549
00:19:21,060 --> 00:19:21,940
They fired a lot.

550
00:19:22,780 --> 00:19:23,680
A hundred people.

551
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:25,120
You know, what kind, what kind of payroll

552
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:25,900
is that, man?

553
00:19:26,780 --> 00:19:29,120
That's 15, $20 million payroll.

554
00:19:30,580 --> 00:19:33,220
When the, when the rows of your, of

555
00:19:33,220 --> 00:19:35,600
your industry sort of, when they get chopped

556
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:38,880
in that, that way, you have, you have

557
00:19:38,880 --> 00:19:41,600
to know they wouldn't, Amazon would not do

558
00:19:41,600 --> 00:19:44,660
that if it was not, if it was

559
00:19:44,660 --> 00:19:46,600
wildly successful financially.

560
00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:48,320
No, of course not.

561
00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:49,020
No, of course not.

562
00:19:49,620 --> 00:19:52,960
It's an implicit, it's an implicit admission that

563
00:19:52,960 --> 00:19:56,640
the, the, the money aspect just is not

564
00:19:56,740 --> 00:19:57,100
there.

565
00:19:57,880 --> 00:19:59,740
And the, but the other thing that we're

566
00:19:59,740 --> 00:20:03,100
seeing is advertising.

567
00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:06,560
We've been saying this for a while.

568
00:20:06,640 --> 00:20:08,280
The advertising is just not enough.

569
00:20:08,360 --> 00:20:09,860
It's bullcrap is what it is.

570
00:20:10,080 --> 00:20:13,800
You cannot get to profitability solely on advertising.

571
00:20:14,180 --> 00:20:16,560
You have to use subscriptions.

572
00:20:17,340 --> 00:20:19,760
Spotify cut their staff and increase their prices.

573
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:23,300
YouTube increased their, their premium prices and they're

574
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:25,340
pushing people hard into premium.

575
00:20:26,640 --> 00:20:29,160
That Amazon, so, but the other thing that

576
00:20:29,160 --> 00:20:31,820
hit me this morning though was, I think

577
00:20:31,820 --> 00:20:33,820
there's also an aspect of this where Amazon

578
00:20:33,820 --> 00:20:38,460
sees that they're giving the, the money that

579
00:20:38,460 --> 00:20:41,880
any money that Wondery was making from subscriptions,

580
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:44,700
which is the more valuable of the two.

581
00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:50,000
If you have subscriptions and advertising, subscriptions is

582
00:20:50,000 --> 00:20:51,420
the more valuable of the two.

583
00:20:52,920 --> 00:20:55,920
And 30, 30% of that subscription money

584
00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:57,020
was going to Apple.

585
00:20:58,420 --> 00:21:00,920
Um, if you, if you remember the, over

586
00:21:00,920 --> 00:21:02,900
the last few years, sorry.

587
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:05,480
Um, if you remember the last few years,

588
00:21:05,520 --> 00:21:07,220
I've got a, I just found an article.

589
00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:10,300
We saw this article, this same story many

590
00:21:10,300 --> 00:21:10,720
times.

591
00:21:11,160 --> 00:21:13,220
The headline is Wondery is the winner in

592
00:21:13,220 --> 00:21:15,120
the subscription race this year, but the size

593
00:21:15,120 --> 00:21:16,260
of the market remains small.

594
00:21:16,980 --> 00:21:19,720
Apple says Wondery had the top subscriber channel

595
00:21:19,720 --> 00:21:22,000
of 2022 as the studio was the home

596
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:25,660
of 16 of the top 20 subscriber shows.

597
00:21:26,060 --> 00:21:31,000
So of Apple's top 20 subscription shows, Wondery

598
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,260
had 16 of them.

599
00:21:34,080 --> 00:21:34,180
Yeah.

600
00:21:35,020 --> 00:21:37,420
And that means that any money that they

601
00:21:37,420 --> 00:21:40,820
were making from subscriptions, a third of that

602
00:21:40,820 --> 00:21:41,820
was going to Apple.

603
00:21:41,820 --> 00:21:44,840
Now that's a reason to stop doing that

604
00:21:44,840 --> 00:21:47,180
and bring all that content into Audible.

605
00:21:48,300 --> 00:21:50,860
That, that is because now you say, okay,

606
00:21:50,980 --> 00:21:53,060
if you have a hardcore subscriber who really

607
00:21:53,060 --> 00:21:55,100
wants to subscribe, now they'll come over and

608
00:21:55,100 --> 00:21:55,820
subscribe on Audible.

609
00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:57,600
They're not giving, they're not going through Apple

610
00:21:57,600 --> 00:21:58,440
podcasts anymore.

611
00:21:58,720 --> 00:22:01,420
So I think that the, there was financial

612
00:22:01,420 --> 00:22:02,560
problems, clearly.

613
00:22:04,120 --> 00:22:06,420
That's just obvious, or they wouldn't do this.

614
00:22:06,420 --> 00:22:08,980
But then the, the money they were making,

615
00:22:09,440 --> 00:22:14,080
which wasn't evidently very large, a third of

616
00:22:14,080 --> 00:22:15,840
that was getting siphoned off over to Apple

617
00:22:15,840 --> 00:22:16,460
podcasts.

618
00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,380
So I just think that there's, I mean,

619
00:22:19,420 --> 00:22:22,680
the psychology aspect of this inside the, the,

620
00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:27,740
the quote unquote podcast industry is, oh man,

621
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:29,300
I thought, you know, I thought these guys

622
00:22:29,300 --> 00:22:31,540
were, were, were killing it and they clearly

623
00:22:31,540 --> 00:22:32,100
weren't.

624
00:22:32,100 --> 00:22:34,040
And then the other side of it is,

625
00:22:34,360 --> 00:22:38,400
this is just a pure money play on

626
00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:39,040
Amazon's part.

627
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:40,200
They're getting their house in order.

628
00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:42,760
This is the same way that, that Spotify

629
00:22:42,760 --> 00:22:43,260
had to.

630
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:45,760
I think this, the conversation we're having now

631
00:22:45,760 --> 00:22:48,960
is exactly the problem, but I'm, but I

632
00:22:48,960 --> 00:22:50,380
think what I'm trying to, I think what

633
00:22:50,380 --> 00:22:52,020
I'm trying to say, cause I don't really

634
00:22:52,020 --> 00:22:54,440
know what I'm saying ever, honestly.

635
00:22:54,600 --> 00:22:54,860
Okay.

636
00:22:56,680 --> 00:22:57,900
I know what you're saying.

637
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:03,400
Is RSS is a beautiful technology and we've

638
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:06,620
distilled it down to shows and money.

639
00:23:07,300 --> 00:23:08,020
Right.

640
00:23:08,200 --> 00:23:08,400
Yeah.

641
00:23:08,540 --> 00:23:11,340
And what I'm saying is what can we

642
00:23:11,340 --> 00:23:16,660
do differently with RSS when what you put

643
00:23:16,660 --> 00:23:19,420
in your feed, how much you put in

644
00:23:19,420 --> 00:23:21,960
your feed, you know, what the actual is,

645
00:23:22,140 --> 00:23:24,380
is the content always supposed to be a

646
00:23:24,380 --> 00:23:28,380
show and, and what happens on the other

647
00:23:28,380 --> 00:23:28,780
end.

648
00:23:29,260 --> 00:23:31,560
So right now we have, you get a

649
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:32,100
transmitter.

650
00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:34,340
By the way, this, this was absolutely valid

651
00:23:34,340 --> 00:23:34,800
in the beginning.

652
00:23:35,080 --> 00:23:37,140
You get a transmitter and your app is

653
00:23:37,140 --> 00:23:37,720
the receiver.

654
00:23:39,040 --> 00:23:41,160
And what we've been doing for the past

655
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:43,660
year shows me that, well, not entirely.

656
00:23:44,360 --> 00:23:47,920
The RSS feed is a building block that

657
00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:52,180
you can put all kinds of different types

658
00:23:52,180 --> 00:23:54,820
of content and not necessarily a show.

659
00:23:55,360 --> 00:23:58,700
And on the receiving end, you can build

660
00:23:58,700 --> 00:24:05,740
something completely customized for one particular function.

661
00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:10,140
And in this case, we happen to choose,

662
00:24:10,540 --> 00:24:14,840
you know, we basically built a podcast player,

663
00:24:15,480 --> 00:24:19,440
a podcast app for a total addressable market,

664
00:24:19,560 --> 00:24:22,420
my favorite term, TAM, of over 300,000

665
00:24:22,420 --> 00:24:27,240
churches in America that can fill that with

666
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:30,720
whatever they want and create an experience for

667
00:24:30,720 --> 00:24:33,920
their audience the way they want to.

668
00:24:34,540 --> 00:24:37,360
So we've put an intermediary into the mix.

669
00:24:37,560 --> 00:24:39,080
I'm not saying that that's what has to

670
00:24:39,080 --> 00:24:40,520
happen, but it's a different...

671
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:40,840
A repeater.

672
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,760
Well, it's like a, a remixer.

673
00:24:44,760 --> 00:24:46,120
That's actually a very good idea.

674
00:24:46,160 --> 00:24:47,060
It's a remixer.

675
00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:47,840
A DJ, we're a DJ.

676
00:24:48,440 --> 00:24:50,960
In a way it's, it's a remixer.

677
00:24:50,960 --> 00:24:53,760
You're, you're, you're, it's a curation device.

678
00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:56,440
And that's, and what is the number one

679
00:24:56,440 --> 00:24:58,400
problem we've had?

680
00:24:58,460 --> 00:24:59,120
Oh, discovery.

681
00:24:59,140 --> 00:25:00,220
There's no way to discover.

682
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:01,160
There's no way to discover.

683
00:25:01,300 --> 00:25:05,520
Well, I may look towards a certain person

684
00:25:05,520 --> 00:25:07,760
and say, oh, I'm going to, my discovery

685
00:25:07,760 --> 00:25:09,880
is going to be with that person.

686
00:25:10,060 --> 00:25:11,920
And the way I'm going to consume that

687
00:25:11,920 --> 00:25:14,840
from that person is going to be in

688
00:25:14,840 --> 00:25:17,740
their app, in a, in a separate app.

689
00:25:17,740 --> 00:25:18,980
He might, he might.

690
00:25:19,480 --> 00:25:21,300
I just had a, I just had a

691
00:25:21,300 --> 00:25:22,020
killer idea.

692
00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:22,280
Go.

693
00:25:24,140 --> 00:25:27,580
Uh, everything that gets shared goes into a

694
00:25:27,580 --> 00:25:27,880
feed.

695
00:25:28,380 --> 00:25:29,240
Oh, and not...

696
00:25:30,320 --> 00:25:31,140
Are you killing?

697
00:25:31,300 --> 00:25:32,000
Are you kidding me?

698
00:25:32,020 --> 00:25:33,340
I'm feeling your smalls.

699
00:25:35,040 --> 00:25:35,520
Exactly.

700
00:25:36,020 --> 00:25:36,320
All right.

701
00:25:36,440 --> 00:25:36,720
Okay.

702
00:25:37,140 --> 00:25:38,540
A feed of shares.

703
00:25:38,780 --> 00:25:40,620
So this is what I'm talking about.

704
00:25:40,900 --> 00:25:42,920
It's like, let's just forget the money for

705
00:25:42,920 --> 00:25:43,360
a second.

706
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:45,520
It's forget, forget shows.

707
00:25:46,020 --> 00:25:48,840
You know, it's like if I could subscribe

708
00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,600
to, when we used to have these experiments,

709
00:25:51,980 --> 00:25:55,160
just, I just want the weather updated on,

710
00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,060
on whatever device I'm using every hour for

711
00:25:58,060 --> 00:25:58,920
my location.

712
00:25:59,980 --> 00:26:02,420
You know, that's just, it's a simple, simple,

713
00:26:02,700 --> 00:26:04,220
um, example.

714
00:26:05,300 --> 00:26:06,380
And you know what?

715
00:26:06,440 --> 00:26:07,920
There's probably no money in it.

716
00:26:08,580 --> 00:26:10,200
Maybe there is, I don't know.

717
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:13,060
But there's so many cool things that we

718
00:26:13,060 --> 00:26:17,760
can do with remixing and intermediaries instead of

719
00:26:17,760 --> 00:26:21,680
transmitter receiver, which is what we've been stuck

720
00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:21,940
in.

721
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:25,740
And you know, when, when your competitor, which

722
00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:28,540
is Google, who is basically trying to kill

723
00:26:28,540 --> 00:26:32,380
RSS again, is zigging, we need to zag.

724
00:26:32,540 --> 00:26:34,060
We need to do something completely different.

725
00:26:34,340 --> 00:26:36,540
It's very hard because the comp, you know,

726
00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:40,460
the podcast industrial complex is centered around money

727
00:26:40,460 --> 00:26:41,480
and monetization.

728
00:26:42,740 --> 00:26:44,060
You wanted to say something?

729
00:26:44,780 --> 00:26:47,000
I think it's, well, it just hit me

730
00:26:47,000 --> 00:26:49,440
that it's like, you have to answer the

731
00:26:49,440 --> 00:26:50,240
question, why?

732
00:26:52,420 --> 00:26:56,480
Like, why does Google want to kill RSS?

733
00:26:56,700 --> 00:27:01,260
Why have they had a 20 year hard

734
00:27:01,260 --> 00:27:03,320
on to kill RSS?

735
00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:10,000
Because it always is a threat to their

736
00:27:10,000 --> 00:27:10,460
model.

737
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:16,000
The YouTube model, you know, on our, on

738
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,730
our, um, Well, let me help you.

739
00:27:21,790 --> 00:27:22,670
Let me help you.

740
00:27:22,770 --> 00:27:25,550
The money that is in podcasting is not

741
00:27:25,550 --> 00:27:27,350
the reason Google is doing this.

742
00:27:27,510 --> 00:27:29,970
They're not going, oh, look, there's another billion

743
00:27:29,970 --> 00:27:31,010
dollars we can get.

744
00:27:31,090 --> 00:27:32,850
No, it's really not it.

745
00:27:32,850 --> 00:27:35,870
They want all your base belong to us.

746
00:27:35,950 --> 00:27:36,990
They just want it.

747
00:27:37,130 --> 00:27:38,050
They want your content.

748
00:27:38,170 --> 00:27:39,770
They want your content and they want it

749
00:27:39,770 --> 00:27:40,230
for free.

750
00:27:41,030 --> 00:27:41,650
And they want you.

751
00:27:41,830 --> 00:27:42,170
Yes.

752
00:27:42,270 --> 00:27:42,510
Yes.

753
00:27:42,550 --> 00:27:42,810
That's it.

754
00:27:42,830 --> 00:27:45,090
They want your content for free because what

755
00:27:45,090 --> 00:27:48,070
they've realized is is that they've realized the

756
00:27:48,070 --> 00:27:50,510
same thing that AI has realized that the

757
00:27:50,510 --> 00:27:52,350
AI companies have realized has realized.

758
00:27:52,990 --> 00:27:54,870
There's not enough content.

759
00:27:56,070 --> 00:27:59,930
They've already ingested the entire internet and it's

760
00:27:59,930 --> 00:28:00,590
not enough.

761
00:28:01,150 --> 00:28:03,970
It's not enough to fulfill the promise that

762
00:28:03,970 --> 00:28:07,530
they've, that they've given the promise that they've

763
00:28:07,530 --> 00:28:10,730
given on YouTube is that it's your new

764
00:28:10,730 --> 00:28:11,110
TV.

765
00:28:11,370 --> 00:28:13,630
Whenever you tune, whenever you jump on your

766
00:28:13,630 --> 00:28:16,190
YouTube, you're always going to find something to

767
00:28:16,190 --> 00:28:18,350
watch every, there's always going to be something

768
00:28:18,350 --> 00:28:19,070
interesting there.

769
00:28:19,110 --> 00:28:21,530
And I can tell you that's not true.

770
00:28:21,790 --> 00:28:24,250
But also the last thing they want is

771
00:28:24,250 --> 00:28:28,510
for you to subscribe to something and actually

772
00:28:28,510 --> 00:28:30,570
get what you want all the time.

773
00:28:30,710 --> 00:28:31,950
That makes no sense to them.

774
00:28:32,390 --> 00:28:32,910
Outside of them.

775
00:28:33,110 --> 00:28:34,550
Yeah, that makes no sense to them.

776
00:28:34,670 --> 00:28:37,030
They, they want to keep you engaged with

777
00:28:37,030 --> 00:28:38,690
what they think is what you want.

778
00:28:39,690 --> 00:28:42,110
And, and in the process, you know, that

779
00:28:42,110 --> 00:28:45,270
it's, they are definitely hooking us in, but

780
00:28:45,270 --> 00:28:47,170
they want to take the control away from

781
00:28:47,170 --> 00:28:49,690
you, the, the listener, the viewer, the user,

782
00:28:49,690 --> 00:28:51,790
and do it all for you.

783
00:28:51,790 --> 00:28:52,830
And a lot of people are very happy

784
00:28:52,830 --> 00:28:53,190
with that.

785
00:28:53,190 --> 00:28:54,930
I'm sure we have a lot of time

786
00:28:54,930 --> 00:28:57,210
on their hand on their hands, but I've

787
00:28:57,210 --> 00:29:02,110
seen time and time again from all ages.

788
00:29:03,230 --> 00:29:04,810
Uh, where do I find your podcast?

789
00:29:06,290 --> 00:29:07,390
Well, do you have Apple?

790
00:29:07,510 --> 00:29:08,250
Yeah, I think so.

791
00:29:08,730 --> 00:29:10,570
Um, but, oh, I can just get it

792
00:29:10,570 --> 00:29:11,670
from the church app.

793
00:29:11,710 --> 00:29:12,050
Oh, okay.

794
00:29:12,050 --> 00:29:12,770
I'll get it over there.

795
00:29:12,970 --> 00:29:14,870
And whenever they want that, they go over

796
00:29:14,870 --> 00:29:17,210
there and they don't care if it's a

797
00:29:17,210 --> 00:29:19,410
podcast app, if there's other things they could,

798
00:29:19,450 --> 00:29:20,970
they just want the stuff that they were

799
00:29:20,970 --> 00:29:22,190
told they can get over there and they

800
00:29:22,190 --> 00:29:23,110
get it from there.

801
00:29:23,770 --> 00:29:24,090
Right.

802
00:29:24,470 --> 00:29:25,550
Uh, oh, it's on your website.

803
00:29:25,550 --> 00:29:28,510
No agenda still, I think 30% of

804
00:29:28,510 --> 00:29:31,050
people still go to no agenda show.net

805
00:29:31,050 --> 00:29:33,970
and click play and leave their browser window

806
00:29:33,970 --> 00:29:34,430
open.

807
00:29:34,890 --> 00:29:36,170
And that's quite a lot of, that's a

808
00:29:36,170 --> 00:29:37,710
lot of people, you know, that's hundreds of

809
00:29:37,710 --> 00:29:39,390
thousands of people who are doing that.

810
00:29:40,950 --> 00:29:42,150
It's just the fact.

811
00:29:42,330 --> 00:29:45,490
So all these different things we can build

812
00:29:45,490 --> 00:29:48,530
with remixing, and this is where that source,

813
00:29:48,690 --> 00:29:50,990
it was so beautiful when, when, when you

814
00:29:50,990 --> 00:29:54,770
point out the source element, just to reiterate,

815
00:29:55,790 --> 00:29:58,090
so we now have an app and, and

816
00:29:58,090 --> 00:30:00,330
you open that app and it shows you

817
00:30:00,330 --> 00:30:04,230
stations in your area by geo location.

818
00:30:04,450 --> 00:30:06,910
You click on one, you follow the station,

819
00:30:07,130 --> 00:30:09,930
but you can just, you know, bop around.

820
00:30:10,030 --> 00:30:10,610
What do they have?

821
00:30:10,690 --> 00:30:12,110
What kind of content do they have?

822
00:30:12,330 --> 00:30:13,430
Or, oh, what's this?

823
00:30:13,490 --> 00:30:13,650
Click.

824
00:30:13,730 --> 00:30:14,370
It's a live stream.

825
00:30:14,430 --> 00:30:15,650
Oh, I just fell in the middle of

826
00:30:15,650 --> 00:30:16,030
something.

827
00:30:16,470 --> 00:30:16,730
Okay.

828
00:30:16,750 --> 00:30:17,350
I'm listening to this.

829
00:30:17,370 --> 00:30:18,050
Oh, that's interesting.

830
00:30:18,130 --> 00:30:18,870
Now that's radio.

831
00:30:18,890 --> 00:30:21,290
And I find myself more often than not

832
00:30:21,290 --> 00:30:22,950
just listening to the program for a bit.

833
00:30:22,950 --> 00:30:24,430
And if it's really good, I'll be like,

834
00:30:24,550 --> 00:30:25,610
yeah, I want to find out.

835
00:30:25,710 --> 00:30:27,510
I want to listen to this when it's

836
00:30:27,510 --> 00:30:28,110
good for me.

837
00:30:28,190 --> 00:30:29,350
I want to put it in a queue.

838
00:30:29,850 --> 00:30:30,890
I want to listen to it later.

839
00:30:31,390 --> 00:30:32,930
And that's one click away and I have

840
00:30:32,930 --> 00:30:33,490
the source.

841
00:30:34,310 --> 00:30:36,090
And oh, there's all these other episodes.

842
00:30:36,230 --> 00:30:37,330
I might go back and listen to that.

843
00:30:37,390 --> 00:30:38,610
It's true discovery.

844
00:30:39,250 --> 00:30:41,310
The stream is, it's almost irrelevant.

845
00:30:41,410 --> 00:30:42,790
It's just a discovery mechanism.

846
00:30:43,210 --> 00:30:43,850
What's going on?

847
00:30:43,910 --> 00:30:44,030
Click.

848
00:30:44,150 --> 00:30:44,530
Oh, okay.

849
00:30:44,590 --> 00:30:45,110
Surprise me.

850
00:30:45,210 --> 00:30:45,570
Oh, okay.

851
00:30:45,590 --> 00:30:46,170
That's interesting.

852
00:30:47,310 --> 00:30:48,530
I'll go and listen to that later.

853
00:30:49,850 --> 00:30:53,450
It's completely, it's a completely different model from

854
00:30:53,450 --> 00:30:58,670
what podcasting in the monetization sphere really is.

855
00:30:59,590 --> 00:31:01,050
It's very different.

856
00:31:02,230 --> 00:31:05,470
Every, all the big players are trying to

857
00:31:05,470 --> 00:31:10,190
construct walls around their, around their systems.

858
00:31:10,270 --> 00:31:14,090
Now they can't afford to, it's a money

859
00:31:14,090 --> 00:31:14,870
thing with them.

860
00:31:14,970 --> 00:31:16,670
And they're not trying to cap.

861
00:31:16,670 --> 00:31:19,270
They're not trying to capture the money that's

862
00:31:19,270 --> 00:31:21,230
in podcasting because there's not very much money

863
00:31:21,230 --> 00:31:21,950
in podcasting.

864
00:31:22,010 --> 00:31:23,750
It's, it's the amount of money that's in

865
00:31:23,750 --> 00:31:27,850
podcasting is completely insignificant to any of these

866
00:31:27,850 --> 00:31:28,610
large companies.

867
00:31:28,810 --> 00:31:30,030
Is it complete?

868
00:31:30,170 --> 00:31:31,450
It is just such a small number.

869
00:31:31,570 --> 00:31:34,770
It's irrelevant to their bottom line, but it

870
00:31:34,770 --> 00:31:39,450
does represent a threat to their money in

871
00:31:39,450 --> 00:31:40,590
a different way.

872
00:31:40,630 --> 00:31:42,470
And that's through your attention.

873
00:31:42,750 --> 00:31:44,330
And, and the data you bring along.

874
00:31:44,910 --> 00:31:45,390
Yes.

875
00:31:45,390 --> 00:31:47,850
And so that, that is all that this

876
00:31:47,850 --> 00:31:48,350
is about.

877
00:31:48,810 --> 00:31:50,390
It's all that this is about.

878
00:31:50,530 --> 00:31:56,230
And the, every time, every time something happens

879
00:31:56,230 --> 00:32:00,950
where there's a shift within podcasting, like what

880
00:32:00,950 --> 00:32:04,650
just happened, it is a signal that these

881
00:32:04,650 --> 00:32:07,070
walls that they're building are getting, are getting

882
00:32:07,070 --> 00:32:09,410
tighter, which means there's more threat.

883
00:32:09,870 --> 00:32:12,150
They perceive more threat internally.

884
00:32:12,330 --> 00:32:12,770
Yes.

885
00:32:12,770 --> 00:32:16,290
They, they're looking outside and say, and feeling

886
00:32:16,290 --> 00:32:17,930
threatened and they double down.

887
00:32:18,410 --> 00:32:20,730
So, and I, and I, and RSS has

888
00:32:20,730 --> 00:32:22,250
always been at the core.

889
00:32:22,770 --> 00:32:26,310
It's always, Google has always been terrified of

890
00:32:26,310 --> 00:32:30,590
RSS because it completely bypasses their entire setup

891
00:32:30,590 --> 00:32:31,990
completely.

892
00:32:32,190 --> 00:32:33,830
And, and the, you know, this, this leads

893
00:32:33,830 --> 00:32:36,250
into the, to that whole, you know, to

894
00:32:36,250 --> 00:32:39,870
the HTML working group trying to get rid

895
00:32:39,870 --> 00:32:41,330
of XSLT.

896
00:32:42,890 --> 00:32:44,290
I don't know if you saw that.

897
00:32:44,990 --> 00:32:45,230
Briefly.

898
00:32:45,370 --> 00:32:46,330
Is that XSLT?

899
00:32:46,410 --> 00:32:48,110
Is that the style sheet that flows over

900
00:32:48,110 --> 00:32:50,230
an RSS feed and then shows the content

901
00:32:50,230 --> 00:32:51,030
as like a webpage?

902
00:32:52,170 --> 00:32:52,410
Correct.

903
00:32:52,830 --> 00:32:53,310
Boom.

904
00:32:53,450 --> 00:32:53,610
Yeah.

905
00:32:53,790 --> 00:32:54,270
Nailed it.

906
00:32:54,430 --> 00:32:54,910
Nailed it.

907
00:32:56,010 --> 00:32:56,290
Yeah.

908
00:32:57,290 --> 00:32:59,730
And somebody from the HTML working group.

909
00:33:00,450 --> 00:33:02,350
It's basically one more step for Adam.

910
00:33:02,450 --> 00:33:03,470
Oh, got a view source.

911
00:33:03,610 --> 00:33:03,870
Okay.

912
00:33:04,630 --> 00:33:04,750
Yeah.

913
00:33:04,810 --> 00:33:05,210
Yeah.

914
00:33:05,390 --> 00:33:05,550
Right.

915
00:33:05,550 --> 00:33:05,650
Right.

916
00:33:07,710 --> 00:33:09,910
Somebody from the HTML working group.

917
00:33:10,510 --> 00:33:10,910
Who is this?

918
00:33:13,110 --> 00:33:14,150
Mason Freed.

919
00:33:14,790 --> 00:33:15,830
Chromium developer.

920
00:33:18,370 --> 00:33:21,270
He proposed, well, he said, what is the

921
00:33:21,270 --> 00:33:23,210
issue with the HTML standards?

922
00:33:23,410 --> 00:33:24,010
Let's see.

923
00:33:25,630 --> 00:33:28,790
XSLT v1, which all browsers adhere to was

924
00:33:28,790 --> 00:33:29,810
standardized in 99.

925
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:32,250
In the meantime, XSLT has evolved to 2

926
00:33:32,250 --> 00:33:35,170
.0 and 3.0. Uh, the bottom line

927
00:33:35,170 --> 00:33:39,110
of what he's saying is 1.0 XSLT

928
00:33:39,110 --> 00:33:40,790
is all that's in browsers these days.

929
00:33:40,970 --> 00:33:46,750
It's proven to be a security problem because

930
00:33:46,750 --> 00:33:50,330
for historical reasons, all of the browsers rely

931
00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:54,130
on what's a one library called LibXSLT, except

932
00:33:54,130 --> 00:33:55,310
for Firefox.

933
00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:57,090
It uses his own thing as usual.

934
00:33:57,790 --> 00:34:02,410
Um, but that's a C, C++ code base.

935
00:34:02,410 --> 00:34:05,810
And there's memory safety issues in there.

936
00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:10,150
So it's proposed that XSLT would be deprecated

937
00:34:10,150 --> 00:34:10,730
in browsers.

938
00:34:11,070 --> 00:34:12,830
This is what he's, I don't know if

939
00:34:12,830 --> 00:34:13,690
he's even proposing it.

940
00:34:13,790 --> 00:34:15,710
He's just asking the question, should it be

941
00:34:15,710 --> 00:34:16,330
deprecated?

942
00:34:18,389 --> 00:34:24,800
Um, and you know, the response, I'm not

943
00:34:24,800 --> 00:34:27,239
saying this, I'm not saying his motivation is

944
00:34:27,239 --> 00:34:28,900
this, but what this is, what it, but

945
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:30,760
what it boils down to, what it, what

946
00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:32,560
it amounts to, honestly.

947
00:34:33,780 --> 00:34:36,000
Is a direct attack on RSS.

948
00:34:36,679 --> 00:34:37,080
That's right.

949
00:34:38,159 --> 00:34:42,380
Because XSLT is not just, it's not only

950
00:34:42,380 --> 00:34:43,139
for styling.

951
00:34:43,780 --> 00:34:47,739
It'll, it's, it's a templating language for X,

952
00:34:47,840 --> 00:34:48,500
for XML.

953
00:34:49,420 --> 00:34:51,320
So it's a way to, I mean, if

954
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:53,860
you look at XSLT, it's got, it's got

955
00:34:53,860 --> 00:34:54,639
control flow.

956
00:34:55,199 --> 00:34:56,820
I mean, it's got four, you know, it's

957
00:34:56,820 --> 00:34:59,560
got, uh, uh, for each loops, it's got,

958
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:04,100
you know, conditionals it's, it's, it's a language,

959
00:35:04,300 --> 00:35:05,500
it's a templating language.

960
00:35:05,980 --> 00:35:07,660
And so you can, you can use it

961
00:35:07,660 --> 00:35:12,120
to do very complex things and, uh, to

962
00:35:12,120 --> 00:35:13,580
display XML.

963
00:35:13,600 --> 00:35:16,440
But since is this good or bad?

964
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:17,340
Is this good or bad?

965
00:35:17,380 --> 00:35:18,340
Sounds like a good thing.

966
00:35:19,540 --> 00:35:22,140
Well, you know, I, I think some of

967
00:35:22,140 --> 00:35:23,920
the, I think it's really not good.

968
00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:26,980
It's, I don't want to assign a sort

969
00:35:26,980 --> 00:35:29,120
of quality to it, like a moral quality

970
00:35:29,120 --> 00:35:30,980
to it, as good or bad, because it's,

971
00:35:32,080 --> 00:35:35,660
it just is a thing that exists that

972
00:35:35,660 --> 00:35:36,360
is in use.

973
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:37,800
But they want to get rid of it?

974
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:41,220
Uh, I don't know if he even wants

975
00:35:41,220 --> 00:35:43,320
to, I think, uh, I think what he's

976
00:35:43,320 --> 00:35:46,000
proposing was, you know, it's the way this

977
00:35:46,000 --> 00:35:48,460
HTML working group works is proposals are made

978
00:35:48,460 --> 00:35:49,600
and they work it out.

979
00:35:50,480 --> 00:35:54,600
Um, they work through it and people sort

980
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:59,060
of, uh, vote with their commentary, uh, in

981
00:35:59,060 --> 00:35:59,460
a way.

982
00:35:59,460 --> 00:36:02,800
And then, uh, at the end, you know,

983
00:36:02,860 --> 00:36:06,840
at the end of the discussion, uh, choices

984
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,480
begin to, to be proposed, you know, and

985
00:36:10,480 --> 00:36:13,840
it's still firmly in the discussion phase until

986
00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:16,180
the let's, let's, let's have a conversation about

987
00:36:16,180 --> 00:36:16,860
this phase.

988
00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,900
And it does, you know, the, the issue

989
00:36:21,900 --> 00:36:28,560
is XSLT is primarily used for displaying RSS

990
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:30,300
feeds nicely in web browsers.

991
00:36:30,940 --> 00:36:33,420
That's, that's, that's what 90% of the

992
00:36:33,420 --> 00:36:33,960
use is.

993
00:36:34,220 --> 00:36:34,320
Sure.

994
00:36:34,380 --> 00:36:35,880
But that doesn't mean it's the only use.

995
00:36:37,240 --> 00:36:40,200
Um, there's still lots of other use going

996
00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,120
on of XSLT, uh, as well.

997
00:36:43,140 --> 00:36:45,480
And the total page loads for X, you

998
00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:48,680
know, for XML in browsers is, while as

999
00:36:48,680 --> 00:36:51,280
a percentage is low, the total, the total

1000
00:36:51,280 --> 00:36:52,480
volume is high.

1001
00:36:53,320 --> 00:36:53,880
Still.

1002
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:58,060
And anyway, I, the reason I'm bringing this

1003
00:36:58,060 --> 00:37:07,520
up is because RSS is, since it's XML

1004
00:37:07,520 --> 00:37:13,980
based, anything that diminishes XML in the browser

1005
00:37:13,980 --> 00:37:19,440
also diminishes XML on the quote unquote web,

1006
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:25,860
which is ultimately a diminution of RSS.

1007
00:37:27,520 --> 00:37:30,640
And I think that that we have to

1008
00:37:30,640 --> 00:37:31,660
keep that in mind.

1009
00:37:31,860 --> 00:37:33,780
We need to fight for some of these

1010
00:37:33,780 --> 00:37:38,620
things to be retained, not necessarily because we

1011
00:37:38,620 --> 00:37:40,460
can't live without them if they were to

1012
00:37:40,460 --> 00:37:45,000
go away, but we saw what things like

1013
00:37:45,000 --> 00:37:47,840
Google Reader going away did to RSS.

1014
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:49,300
Mm-hmm.

1015
00:37:49,940 --> 00:37:52,820
And every time there is a, it's like

1016
00:37:52,820 --> 00:37:53,720
a Jenga tower.

1017
00:37:54,140 --> 00:37:56,040
Every time one of those little blocks is

1018
00:37:56,040 --> 00:37:59,420
pulled out, the tower that is RSS gets

1019
00:37:59,420 --> 00:37:59,820
weaker.

1020
00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:05,220
And, you know, that's, we have to just

1021
00:38:05,220 --> 00:38:06,960
keep as many blocks in that tower as

1022
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:07,480
we can.

1023
00:38:08,140 --> 00:38:09,520
And it's useful.

1024
00:38:09,720 --> 00:38:12,820
I mean, XSLT, the ultimate, the best outcome

1025
00:38:12,820 --> 00:38:14,980
of this would be that XSLT in browsers

1026
00:38:14,980 --> 00:38:17,620
would be upgraded to a more modern version

1027
00:38:17,620 --> 00:38:20,200
that they would support 3.0. Mm-hmm.

1028
00:38:23,360 --> 00:38:25,220
And because it's not, like I said, it's

1029
00:38:25,220 --> 00:38:25,840
not just styling.

1030
00:38:25,940 --> 00:38:29,260
You can also use it for delivery.

1031
00:38:29,620 --> 00:38:33,400
You can also say, you know, well, this

1032
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,520
feed is huge.

1033
00:38:35,200 --> 00:38:39,480
Alberto gave an example of using a 4

1034
00:38:39,480 --> 00:38:42,140
-H loop in XSLT to minimize the amount

1035
00:38:42,140 --> 00:38:42,980
of data that's returned.

1036
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:44,580
Or do pagination or whatever.

1037
00:38:44,860 --> 00:38:45,420
Yeah, yeah.

1038
00:38:45,420 --> 00:38:49,580
Things like, there's, the browser is, I mean,

1039
00:38:49,640 --> 00:38:52,940
we had XHTML for crying out loud.

1040
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:57,540
We had XML as the basis for the

1041
00:38:57,540 --> 00:39:00,400
browser's rendering itself a few years ago.

1042
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:00,720
Yes, I remember that.

1043
00:39:00,860 --> 00:39:01,660
Yeah, I remember that.

1044
00:39:01,780 --> 00:39:01,940
Yeah.

1045
00:39:02,420 --> 00:39:02,680
Yeah.

1046
00:39:03,120 --> 00:39:04,340
XML is important.

1047
00:39:05,300 --> 00:39:07,960
Well, let me throw two things at you.

1048
00:39:08,520 --> 00:39:08,840
Okay.

1049
00:39:09,420 --> 00:39:11,900
Actually, it was a very interesting, there's a

1050
00:39:11,900 --> 00:39:13,080
clip I played yesterday.

1051
00:39:13,240 --> 00:39:13,960
Hold on a second.

1052
00:39:19,440 --> 00:39:24,060
Scrunch, there's a company and this kind of

1053
00:39:24,060 --> 00:39:27,120
folds into AI.

1054
00:39:28,260 --> 00:39:30,020
Listen carefully to this.

1055
00:39:30,240 --> 00:39:32,460
Chris Andrew is CEO and co-founder of

1056
00:39:32,460 --> 00:39:33,320
Scrunch AI.

1057
00:39:34,100 --> 00:39:36,660
Scrunch tries to help customers' websites get noticed

1058
00:39:36,660 --> 00:39:38,840
by AI bots so that their name or

1059
00:39:38,840 --> 00:39:40,920
products appear in AI answers.

1060
00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:43,680
We're seeing companies that are desperate to get

1061
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:45,560
their content consumed by AI models.

1062
00:39:45,760 --> 00:39:48,060
He's talking about companies that sell products and

1063
00:39:48,060 --> 00:39:50,680
services, like sneakers or oil changes.

1064
00:39:51,320 --> 00:39:53,320
Andrew says that visibility can lead to more

1065
00:39:53,320 --> 00:39:56,460
transactions, even if there are fewer overall clicks.

1066
00:39:57,240 --> 00:39:58,980
He sees a future where a whole new

1067
00:39:58,980 --> 00:40:01,560
post-human web emerges to feed AI.

1068
00:40:02,020 --> 00:40:04,580
The websites of today, full of pictures and

1069
00:40:04,580 --> 00:40:07,040
videos, were designed primarily for eyeballs.

1070
00:40:07,500 --> 00:40:09,000
So I have a thesis that we're going

1071
00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,480
to move to a non-visual internet because

1072
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:12,940
the internet is going to be for AI.

1073
00:40:13,080 --> 00:40:14,980
And AI wants words.

1074
00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:16,400
The secret is in the name.

1075
00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,200
Large language models want language.

1076
00:40:18,980 --> 00:40:22,060
And as a society, we have built a

1077
00:40:22,060 --> 00:40:27,120
very confusing, over-designed, over-incentivized internet that

1078
00:40:27,120 --> 00:40:28,020
is heavily interactive.

1079
00:40:28,420 --> 00:40:31,040
Websites as we know them won't vanish altogether,

1080
00:40:31,200 --> 00:40:31,720
he says.

1081
00:40:31,860 --> 00:40:33,400
People will still need to visit them to

1082
00:40:33,400 --> 00:40:34,080
buy stuff.

1083
00:40:34,320 --> 00:40:36,340
So forget the hypey stuff there.

1084
00:40:42,160 --> 00:40:44,360
Where women wear comfortable shoes.

1085
00:40:48,060 --> 00:40:52,960
Where RSS feeds are interlinking to each other

1086
00:40:52,960 --> 00:40:53,580
constantly.

1087
00:40:53,740 --> 00:40:56,060
We have all the building blocks.

1088
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:57,640
We have the remote item.

1089
00:40:57,780 --> 00:40:58,640
We have source.

1090
00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:02,320
I think remote item is actually kind of

1091
00:41:02,320 --> 00:41:03,580
the most exciting part of that.

1092
00:41:04,480 --> 00:41:07,500
Where we're interlinking to all of these different

1093
00:41:07,500 --> 00:41:08,080
things.

1094
00:41:08,360 --> 00:41:10,340
They link out to transcripts.

1095
00:41:10,420 --> 00:41:12,180
There's a lot of different things.

1096
00:41:12,180 --> 00:41:15,720
I mean, there could be an interlinked web

1097
00:41:15,720 --> 00:41:20,900
of RSS feeds that would be incredibly beneficial

1098
00:41:20,900 --> 00:41:25,520
for any type of application to pull in

1099
00:41:25,520 --> 00:41:30,080
or search or archive or index to do

1100
00:41:30,080 --> 00:41:31,060
things with.

1101
00:41:33,880 --> 00:41:34,980
Like Gopher.

1102
00:41:35,240 --> 00:41:37,020
Basically, I'm talking about Gopher.

1103
00:41:38,180 --> 00:41:39,560
Let's bring back Gopher.

1104
00:41:40,680 --> 00:41:41,540
Finger.

1105
00:41:42,930 --> 00:41:44,520
Finger my .plan file.

1106
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:47,400
Um, publisher.

1107
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:49,120
Thank you very much, Chad F.

1108
00:41:50,100 --> 00:41:51,720
Um, there's something we talked about.

1109
00:41:51,880 --> 00:41:53,780
I mean, there's something to be said about

1110
00:41:53,780 --> 00:41:54,380
that.

1111
00:41:55,440 --> 00:41:57,440
Well, XML serves a role.

1112
00:41:57,580 --> 00:41:59,080
It serves a very important role.

1113
00:41:59,140 --> 00:42:00,940
And we've, you know, man, I feel like

1114
00:42:00,940 --> 00:42:02,380
we're, I feel like we're talking about stuff

1115
00:42:02,380 --> 00:42:04,120
we talked about like five years ago.

1116
00:42:04,340 --> 00:42:04,480
Easily.

1117
00:42:04,680 --> 00:42:05,360
Sure, sure.

1118
00:42:06,940 --> 00:42:07,820
Um, XML.

1119
00:42:08,920 --> 00:42:18,200
XML is important because, um, Let me, let

1120
00:42:18,200 --> 00:42:19,040
me throw this at you.

1121
00:42:19,320 --> 00:42:22,540
So what you said, you've got an RSS

1122
00:42:22,540 --> 00:42:24,400
feed of shared.

1123
00:42:24,860 --> 00:42:27,180
I mean, just think about all the interlinking

1124
00:42:27,180 --> 00:42:29,180
we could be doing, but aren't doing.

1125
00:42:29,320 --> 00:42:31,220
We have all of these, all these different,

1126
00:42:31,320 --> 00:42:32,800
we have pod role.

1127
00:42:32,980 --> 00:42:35,840
We have, you know, all these different feeds

1128
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:36,820
that can be created.

1129
00:42:36,820 --> 00:42:39,460
You can be surfing around on this invisible

1130
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:46,320
RSS web, interlinked web that with XSLT actually

1131
00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:48,180
could be viewable, would be viewable to you

1132
00:42:48,180 --> 00:42:51,120
as like just your web browser becomes an

1133
00:42:51,120 --> 00:42:51,700
app again.

1134
00:42:52,660 --> 00:42:54,080
And you know what I'm saying?

1135
00:42:54,200 --> 00:42:55,860
And so you just, you just click on

1136
00:42:55,860 --> 00:42:57,980
something and, oh, I'm in this world.

1137
00:42:58,820 --> 00:43:01,580
Uh, and the XSL, the T part, the

1138
00:43:01,580 --> 00:43:05,300
template part determines your visual experience.

1139
00:43:06,020 --> 00:43:09,320
But underneath anybody can walk this tree and

1140
00:43:09,320 --> 00:43:11,420
figure out all these different things and can

1141
00:43:11,420 --> 00:43:13,480
pull in pieces from.

1142
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:15,600
I mean, why wouldn't I all of a

1143
00:43:15,600 --> 00:43:19,260
sudden be linked into, um, the true fans

1144
00:43:19,260 --> 00:43:20,040
ecosystem.

1145
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,220
And now there's all this other stuff that

1146
00:43:22,220 --> 00:43:25,960
I'm linking in between a person tag and

1147
00:43:25,960 --> 00:43:27,020
location tag.

1148
00:43:27,040 --> 00:43:29,040
I mean, it is so much more than

1149
00:43:29,040 --> 00:43:29,700
what we're doing.

1150
00:43:29,700 --> 00:43:32,340
Just trying to show, you know, uh, an

1151
00:43:32,340 --> 00:43:33,840
icon of a head of someone.

1152
00:43:33,940 --> 00:43:34,980
Oh, he was a guest.

1153
00:43:34,980 --> 00:43:37,040
You know, you know, do you know what

1154
00:43:37,040 --> 00:43:37,360
I mean?

1155
00:43:37,420 --> 00:43:38,040
You know what I mean?

1156
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:38,300
I do.

1157
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:38,520
Yeah.

1158
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:38,820
I do.

1159
00:43:38,820 --> 00:43:39,520
I do know what you mean.

1160
00:43:39,560 --> 00:43:40,880
This is like world outline.

1161
00:43:41,300 --> 00:43:41,400
Yes.

1162
00:43:41,760 --> 00:43:42,120
Yes.

1163
00:43:42,200 --> 00:43:43,360
But without the OPML.

1164
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,360
And without Dave Weiner.

1165
00:43:45,120 --> 00:43:45,360
Right.

1166
00:43:46,580 --> 00:43:48,760
So it's, it's the same idea.

1167
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:49,580
It's, it's a.

1168
00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:50,940
Gosh, I keep coming back.

1169
00:43:51,000 --> 00:43:51,920
This freedom controller.

1170
00:43:52,060 --> 00:43:53,760
I keep coming back to the same stuff.

1171
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:54,200
Don't I?

1172
00:43:54,880 --> 00:43:55,100
Yeah.

1173
00:43:55,100 --> 00:43:56,900
I want to re I'm resisting.

1174
00:43:57,220 --> 00:43:57,620
No resist.

1175
00:43:57,820 --> 00:43:58,180
Resist.

1176
00:43:58,500 --> 00:43:58,860
Resist.

1177
00:43:59,020 --> 00:43:59,520
We must.

1178
00:44:02,220 --> 00:44:02,780
Wait a minute.

1179
00:44:02,840 --> 00:44:03,420
Where's Al?

1180
00:44:04,640 --> 00:44:06,440
Where's Al when we need him?

1181
00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:06,840
Hold on.

1182
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:07,920
Resist.

1183
00:44:08,580 --> 00:44:09,260
Here we go.

1184
00:44:10,420 --> 00:44:12,300
Man, Al is like so old, he's at

1185
00:44:12,300 --> 00:44:13,340
the bottom of the list.

1186
00:44:13,820 --> 00:44:14,520
He fell off the board.

1187
00:44:14,520 --> 00:44:16,380
But resist we much.

1188
00:44:17,100 --> 00:44:22,040
We must and we will much about that

1189
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:23,240
be committed.

1190
00:44:23,380 --> 00:44:23,860
There you go.

1191
00:44:23,980 --> 00:44:24,800
Resist it, Dave.

1192
00:44:24,900 --> 00:44:26,140
My thoughts exactly.

1193
00:44:28,320 --> 00:44:28,920
But you know, so.

1194
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:29,540
Yeah, I agree.

1195
00:44:29,540 --> 00:44:33,440
The XML is a generic markup language.

1196
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:36,340
And that is so useful.

1197
00:44:37,120 --> 00:44:38,020
God, it's so useful.

1198
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,680
I mean, HTML is not that way.

1199
00:44:40,860 --> 00:44:42,760
HTML is geared towards display.

1200
00:44:43,420 --> 00:44:43,780
Yes, yes.

1201
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,340
And we built a total visual web.

1202
00:44:46,500 --> 00:44:46,780
Oh, yeah.

1203
00:44:46,900 --> 00:44:49,240
Please don't say JSON because before you know

1204
00:44:49,240 --> 00:44:49,900
it, Daniel J.

1205
00:44:50,000 --> 00:44:51,060
Lewis is going to be like, we can

1206
00:44:51,060 --> 00:44:52,080
do all this in JSON.

1207
00:44:56,700 --> 00:44:58,080
That's why his middle name is JSON.

1208
00:44:58,160 --> 00:44:58,620
That's right.

1209
00:44:58,620 --> 00:45:05,020
And the JSON is just a serialization language.

1210
00:45:05,840 --> 00:45:10,320
It's just XML is critical to the web.

1211
00:45:10,540 --> 00:45:11,600
It just really is.

1212
00:45:11,820 --> 00:45:14,880
And anything that diminishes that, we should be

1213
00:45:14,880 --> 00:45:17,940
expanding that, not cutting it.

1214
00:45:18,380 --> 00:45:22,100
And I think hosting companies should, you know,

1215
00:45:22,200 --> 00:45:26,420
do a six-week sprint and come up

1216
00:45:26,420 --> 00:45:28,080
with some ideas of what you can actually

1217
00:45:28,080 --> 00:45:31,640
do with interlinking your RSS feeds.

1218
00:45:32,480 --> 00:45:33,080
Yeah.

1219
00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,640
Let's bring creativity back in again.

1220
00:45:36,780 --> 00:45:40,300
We have this beautiful resource, you know, the

1221
00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:44,300
podcast index as your starting point.

1222
00:45:45,720 --> 00:45:46,240
Podroll.

1223
00:45:46,760 --> 00:45:47,880
Yeah, podroll.

1224
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:50,020
But even the index isn't really necessary if

1225
00:45:50,020 --> 00:45:52,140
you're just linking through XML files.

1226
00:45:52,940 --> 00:45:57,820
Isn't podroll, it just hit me that, I

1227
00:45:57,820 --> 00:46:02,460
feel like podroll is the first time that

1228
00:46:02,460 --> 00:46:05,060
a feed from one hosting company has been

1229
00:46:05,060 --> 00:46:07,740
directly referenced by a feed in another hosting

1230
00:46:07,740 --> 00:46:08,060
company.

1231
00:46:08,380 --> 00:46:10,700
I think you're right, except for remote item.

1232
00:46:10,780 --> 00:46:12,700
We did some remote item stuff, but that's

1233
00:46:12,700 --> 00:46:13,560
a little more complicated.

1234
00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:15,040
Well, blogroll is based on remote items.

1235
00:46:15,040 --> 00:46:21,580
For the first time, you have an RSS

1236
00:46:21,580 --> 00:46:28,120
feed at Blueberry, structurally inside the feed linking

1237
00:46:28,120 --> 00:46:31,800
to an RSS feed at Buzzsprout.

1238
00:46:32,020 --> 00:46:34,060
Maybe we're looking at this all wrong, man.

1239
00:46:35,060 --> 00:46:36,280
Do you know what I mean?

1240
00:46:37,220 --> 00:46:40,620
We've been looking at it from the transmitter

1241
00:46:40,620 --> 00:46:45,140
-receiver model, whereas it's the interlinking part that

1242
00:46:45,140 --> 00:46:46,180
nobody can do.

1243
00:46:47,200 --> 00:46:49,880
Only RSS, and I'm just saying XML, sure,

1244
00:46:49,940 --> 00:46:53,720
but let's just say RSS because we have

1245
00:46:53,720 --> 00:46:54,360
the tags.

1246
00:46:55,000 --> 00:46:59,760
We have all these interlinking tags, and once

1247
00:46:59,760 --> 00:47:03,660
you give people the power to interlink, it

1248
00:47:03,660 --> 00:47:05,360
becomes something completely different.

1249
00:47:05,560 --> 00:47:08,760
We should just have an RSS-based web

1250
00:47:08,760 --> 00:47:11,700
with style sheets on top for all I

1251
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,640
care that just lets you surf around, but

1252
00:47:15,640 --> 00:47:16,380
it's structured.

1253
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:17,780
You know, like, oh, this guy, I'm going

1254
00:47:17,780 --> 00:47:18,640
from him to this.

1255
00:47:18,640 --> 00:47:21,540
This is what was beautiful about the web

1256
00:47:21,540 --> 00:47:23,660
in the beginning, or really Gopher, I say

1257
00:47:23,660 --> 00:47:26,200
it laughingly, but it was like, wow, I'm

1258
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:27,680
over here, and this link be over here.

1259
00:47:27,740 --> 00:47:31,880
The linking, which was created by other people,

1260
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:33,060
was what made it so nice.

1261
00:47:33,080 --> 00:47:35,160
That has been broken down into I got

1262
00:47:35,160 --> 00:47:37,000
to use this app and that app and

1263
00:47:37,000 --> 00:47:38,860
this app and over here got that app,

1264
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,060
and nothing really interrupts or interlinks anymore.

1265
00:47:42,520 --> 00:47:44,640
Think about the search engines you could create

1266
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,620
with that much interlinked structured data.

1267
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:49,600
Well, look at bingit.io. Yeah, it's killer.

1268
00:47:49,900 --> 00:47:51,560
Bingit.io is based on XML.

1269
00:47:51,820 --> 00:47:56,980
It's a complete XML engine built on, well,

1270
00:47:56,980 --> 00:47:58,960
in this case, OPML and RSS.

1271
00:48:00,760 --> 00:48:01,720
I don't know.

1272
00:48:01,720 --> 00:48:03,760
You mean clipgenie.com?

1273
00:48:03,900 --> 00:48:05,360
Yeah, clipgenie.com, yes.

1274
00:48:06,640 --> 00:48:11,260
There's something there that we've just forgotten, and

1275
00:48:11,260 --> 00:48:13,340
by the way, in this age of verification,

1276
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:15,720
which is coming, it's unavoidable, we're not going

1277
00:48:15,720 --> 00:48:19,920
to get around it, where apps are going

1278
00:48:19,920 --> 00:48:24,500
to be forced into age verification, and it'll

1279
00:48:24,500 --> 00:48:26,880
start with the big social networks, but eventually

1280
00:48:26,880 --> 00:48:28,560
it'll come down to any app in any

1281
00:48:28,560 --> 00:48:31,420
app store or even to get into the

1282
00:48:31,420 --> 00:48:31,920
app store.

1283
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:33,580
It's coming.

1284
00:48:34,380 --> 00:48:37,720
Yeah, I mean, isn't Australia doing it?

1285
00:48:37,840 --> 00:48:38,200
Is that right?

1286
00:48:38,280 --> 00:48:42,680
The U.K., Australia, Canada, it's coming everywhere.

1287
00:48:43,440 --> 00:48:45,720
There's lots of legislation on the books here

1288
00:48:45,720 --> 00:48:46,680
in the United States.

1289
00:48:47,380 --> 00:48:48,580
Think about the children.

1290
00:48:49,380 --> 00:48:53,800
By the way, not without merit, but we

1291
00:48:53,800 --> 00:48:55,220
still have the browser.

1292
00:48:55,780 --> 00:48:56,300
Barely.

1293
00:48:57,020 --> 00:48:57,540
Barely.

1294
00:48:57,700 --> 00:48:58,140
Barely.

1295
00:48:58,200 --> 00:48:59,480
We're hanging on to the browser.

1296
00:48:59,480 --> 00:49:02,000
But the good news is anybody can create

1297
00:49:02,000 --> 00:49:02,460
a browser.

1298
00:49:03,500 --> 00:49:06,320
There's enough frameworks out there you can create

1299
00:49:06,320 --> 00:49:06,800
a browser.

1300
00:49:08,260 --> 00:49:09,340
I don't know.

1301
00:49:09,540 --> 00:49:12,920
I just want to bring this creative thinking

1302
00:49:12,920 --> 00:49:15,280
back into the process instead of a show,

1303
00:49:15,420 --> 00:49:18,320
monetization, download, stats.

1304
00:49:19,420 --> 00:49:20,300
It's boring.

1305
00:49:20,500 --> 00:49:21,280
It's very boring.

1306
00:49:22,240 --> 00:49:23,860
I know it pays a lot of rent

1307
00:49:23,860 --> 00:49:25,260
for a lot of people, so I don't

1308
00:49:25,260 --> 00:49:26,260
want to discount that.

1309
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:26,860
For me, too.

1310
00:49:26,860 --> 00:49:29,040
It does for a while, though.

1311
00:49:29,240 --> 00:49:32,620
I mean, the Wondery thing shows us that

1312
00:49:32,620 --> 00:49:36,340
it's not ever a sure slam dunk.

1313
00:49:36,580 --> 00:49:39,260
I mean, I don't know.

1314
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:42,960
I mean, it feels like a lot of

1315
00:49:42,960 --> 00:49:49,080
podcasting lore is unraveling a little bit in

1316
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:50,060
the last few years.

1317
00:49:50,260 --> 00:49:52,640
Well, of the PIC, sure.

1318
00:49:53,620 --> 00:49:54,860
But, you know, it's all focused.

1319
00:49:54,860 --> 00:49:56,380
It all boils down to money.

1320
00:49:57,240 --> 00:49:57,940
Oh, yeah.

1321
00:49:58,320 --> 00:50:02,360
Everything, whether it's value for value, it all

1322
00:50:02,360 --> 00:50:03,380
boils down to money.

1323
00:50:03,460 --> 00:50:05,400
Instead of, wow, I can just throw this

1324
00:50:05,400 --> 00:50:09,280
idea I have, and I wrote something in

1325
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:11,460
a markdown for all I care, and I

1326
00:50:11,460 --> 00:50:13,140
link it to this, and then someone else

1327
00:50:13,140 --> 00:50:15,500
links through there, and real discovery.

1328
00:50:16,680 --> 00:50:20,120
Our version of discovery is, hey, chat, GPT.

1329
00:50:20,120 --> 00:50:23,700
But we could even make that better by

1330
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:27,660
giving AI large language models, you know, trees

1331
00:50:27,660 --> 00:50:28,260
to parse.

1332
00:50:28,820 --> 00:50:31,840
I mean, Dave Weiner's right on his podcast.

1333
00:50:32,400 --> 00:50:34,040
LLMs, they suck.

1334
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:37,340
I mean, they totally get in your way.

1335
00:50:37,520 --> 00:50:39,660
He's completely right, and if that's our future,

1336
00:50:39,900 --> 00:50:42,060
I would like to go ahead and exit

1337
00:50:42,060 --> 00:50:43,060
stage left.

1338
00:50:44,860 --> 00:50:47,180
We need to do database story time.

1339
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:49,940
Database story time?

1340
00:50:50,660 --> 00:50:50,780
Yeah.

1341
00:50:52,460 --> 00:50:56,300
I'm sure you saw the ungovernable misfits.

1342
00:50:57,380 --> 00:50:57,780
No.

1343
00:50:58,540 --> 00:50:59,320
What did I miss?

1344
00:50:59,320 --> 00:51:01,620
Exposed a huge SoundBytes API bug.

1345
00:51:01,780 --> 00:51:02,460
No, no, no.

1346
00:51:02,580 --> 00:51:04,000
I don't know anything about this.

1347
00:51:04,080 --> 00:51:05,200
Do we need music for this?

1348
00:51:06,780 --> 00:51:08,640
Are you doing a story time that we

1349
00:51:08,640 --> 00:51:09,420
need music for?

1350
00:51:10,060 --> 00:51:11,500
I mean, you can play music.

1351
00:51:11,680 --> 00:51:13,140
It's going to be a long story, though.

1352
00:51:13,890 --> 00:51:17,420
We might need a 20-minute music bed

1353
00:51:17,420 --> 00:51:17,740
here.

1354
00:51:18,080 --> 00:51:18,820
Okay.

1355
00:51:19,100 --> 00:51:20,160
Let's try it.

1356
00:51:21,700 --> 00:51:22,200
Okay.

1357
00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:29,560
And now, database story time with your pod

1358
00:51:29,560 --> 00:51:31,740
sage, Dave Jones.

1359
00:51:36,120 --> 00:51:37,540
You're going to have to stop that.

1360
00:51:37,700 --> 00:51:38,660
I can't even think straight.

1361
00:51:39,640 --> 00:51:42,220
What kind of podcaster are you?

1362
00:51:42,220 --> 00:51:46,300
The crying violin was killing me there.

1363
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:48,160
It was my in memoriam music.

1364
00:51:48,780 --> 00:51:50,800
Yeah, weeping for the database.

1365
00:51:52,360 --> 00:51:56,080
Yeah, so ungovernable misfits.

1366
00:51:56,180 --> 00:51:57,240
I don't know if you've known.

1367
00:51:57,440 --> 00:52:00,680
There's been an ongoing problem with that one

1368
00:52:00,680 --> 00:52:01,120
feed.

1369
00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:02,900
No, I don't know.

1370
00:52:03,040 --> 00:52:03,820
Did you know about this?

1371
00:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,200
It sounds familiar, but fill me in.

1372
00:52:07,020 --> 00:52:07,300
Okay.

1373
00:52:09,420 --> 00:52:10,260
Let's see.

1374
00:52:11,580 --> 00:52:15,880
Well, they're ungovernable, so that's part of the

1375
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:16,440
problem.

1376
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:18,240
Misfits.

1377
00:52:18,580 --> 00:52:19,400
Here we go.

1378
00:52:19,900 --> 00:52:22,980
Feed ID 352598.

1379
00:52:23,580 --> 00:52:25,720
3529 or 8?

1380
00:52:26,600 --> 00:52:27,560
352598.

1381
00:52:28,240 --> 00:52:28,520
Okay.

1382
00:52:29,900 --> 00:52:34,580
So the ungovernable misfits, it's Linkin Park Rules.

1383
00:52:34,740 --> 00:52:38,000
It's the guy on podcast.

1384
00:52:38,780 --> 00:52:39,600
I'm sorry.

1385
00:52:40,320 --> 00:52:40,960
352598?

1386
00:52:43,900 --> 00:52:44,540
352598.

1387
00:52:47,420 --> 00:52:51,040
And Linkin Park Rules pops up about once

1388
00:52:51,040 --> 00:52:53,420
every couple of weeks and says, hey, I

1389
00:52:53,420 --> 00:52:56,060
just posted a new episode, and the podcast

1390
00:52:56,060 --> 00:52:56,940
index is.

1391
00:52:57,620 --> 00:52:58,540
Not updating.

1392
00:52:59,280 --> 00:52:59,840
No, it's not.

1393
00:52:59,920 --> 00:53:01,080
No, no, it's more than that.

1394
00:53:01,580 --> 00:53:02,460
It's a blank page.

1395
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:04,960
Oh, okay.

1396
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:06,320
It shows nothing.

1397
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:09,060
On my page, and I'm like.

1398
00:53:09,220 --> 00:53:09,840
That's disappointing.

1399
00:53:10,320 --> 00:53:11,540
It is disappointing.

1400
00:53:11,900 --> 00:53:13,780
This is the feed from Podhome?

1401
00:53:14,720 --> 00:53:15,360
Yes.

1402
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:17,380
Yep, from the Dutch Masterberry.

1403
00:53:18,960 --> 00:53:22,720
And so every time I go and I

1404
00:53:22,720 --> 00:53:28,620
look, and when I go and pull the

1405
00:53:28,620 --> 00:53:31,720
get episodes by feed ID endpoint of the

1406
00:53:31,720 --> 00:53:36,080
API for that show, 352598, it would come

1407
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,720
back and say 500 server error, internal server

1408
00:53:40,720 --> 00:53:40,940
error.

1409
00:53:41,040 --> 00:53:41,600
Oh, no.

1410
00:53:42,960 --> 00:53:47,240
And so then if I continuously reduce the

1411
00:53:47,240 --> 00:53:50,360
number of maximum episodes returned down to, let's

1412
00:53:50,360 --> 00:53:55,000
say, five, eventually I'll get a response.

1413
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:59,420
And the response would contain hundreds of identical

1414
00:53:59,420 --> 00:54:00,080
sound bytes.

1415
00:54:00,760 --> 00:54:01,340
Ah.

1416
00:54:02,380 --> 00:54:02,940
Okay.

1417
00:54:03,040 --> 00:54:08,910
And so I was like, well, okay, something's

1418
00:54:08,910 --> 00:54:09,830
screwy.

1419
00:54:10,050 --> 00:54:11,550
Like 562.

1420
00:54:12,750 --> 00:54:13,310
Yeah.

1421
00:54:13,610 --> 00:54:17,210
So there's like, there would be, these are

1422
00:54:17,210 --> 00:54:18,430
duplicate sound bytes.

1423
00:54:19,690 --> 00:54:22,050
Well, this is gone.

1424
00:54:22,230 --> 00:54:24,730
And so in order to get the show

1425
00:54:24,730 --> 00:54:28,230
back working in the index, I would just

1426
00:54:28,230 --> 00:54:31,330
reset the feed and then everything would go

1427
00:54:31,330 --> 00:54:31,890
back to normal.

1428
00:54:32,330 --> 00:54:34,450
It would all be perfect after that.

1429
00:54:34,610 --> 00:54:37,630
And for another few, another two, three weeks,

1430
00:54:37,950 --> 00:54:39,510
same thing happens again.

1431
00:54:41,690 --> 00:54:46,470
And so what I thought was happening, and

1432
00:54:46,470 --> 00:54:53,270
this is because Barry at Podhome, a long

1433
00:54:53,270 --> 00:54:57,130
time ago after Podhome first launched, Barry actually

1434
00:54:57,130 --> 00:55:00,870
had a problem with his system where it

1435
00:55:00,870 --> 00:55:05,150
would create duplicate sound bytes, many duplicate sound

1436
00:55:05,150 --> 00:55:05,950
bytes in a feed.

1437
00:55:06,170 --> 00:55:06,690
Mm-hmm.

1438
00:55:06,790 --> 00:55:09,050
And he said he, and we reported it

1439
00:55:09,050 --> 00:55:10,630
to him and he said he fixed it.

1440
00:55:11,830 --> 00:55:13,510
He's the lying Dutchman.

1441
00:55:15,470 --> 00:55:18,630
And so this has always been in the

1442
00:55:18,630 --> 00:55:21,230
back of my head that I'm thinking this

1443
00:55:21,230 --> 00:55:24,990
is some sort of regression, a bug on

1444
00:55:24,990 --> 00:55:25,850
Barry's side.

1445
00:55:27,010 --> 00:55:29,850
And, but I'm trying to look at it

1446
00:55:29,850 --> 00:55:38,050
objectively, but I'm still always thinking, okay, it

1447
00:55:38,050 --> 00:55:41,010
has to be something where when the feed

1448
00:55:41,010 --> 00:55:43,910
is initially published, it has a whole bunch

1449
00:55:43,910 --> 00:55:47,970
of sound bytes, but then later once the

1450
00:55:47,970 --> 00:55:50,430
feed is rebuilt, that gets fixed or something

1451
00:55:50,430 --> 00:55:50,790
like this.

1452
00:55:50,790 --> 00:55:54,330
So I'm, I'm, I'm, my thinking on this

1453
00:55:54,330 --> 00:55:58,530
is polluted by the initial problem a long

1454
00:55:58,530 --> 00:55:59,050
time ago.

1455
00:55:59,170 --> 00:55:59,710
Mm-hmm.

1456
00:56:01,190 --> 00:56:03,650
But we need to talk about database indexes.

1457
00:56:04,230 --> 00:56:04,750
Okay.

1458
00:56:06,910 --> 00:56:09,670
When you don't index a database correctly, a

1459
00:56:09,670 --> 00:56:14,590
database table, you, what ends up happening is

1460
00:56:14,590 --> 00:56:18,490
you, you chase, you end up chasing slowness

1461
00:56:18,490 --> 00:56:22,150
as, as if it's unoptimized code.

1462
00:56:22,390 --> 00:56:24,150
You think a lot of times you think

1463
00:56:24,150 --> 00:56:26,510
the problem is in your code and the

1464
00:56:26,510 --> 00:56:29,090
problem is actually at the database.

1465
00:56:30,710 --> 00:56:36,370
So I, I always index a table, secondary

1466
00:56:36,370 --> 00:56:38,910
tables in the database the same way.

1467
00:56:39,270 --> 00:56:41,310
And so what I mean by secondary tables

1468
00:56:41,310 --> 00:56:42,630
is, you know, you get your primary tables,

1469
00:56:42,750 --> 00:56:45,210
you have the feeds table, which all the

1470
00:56:45,210 --> 00:56:48,170
podcasts are in, then you have the episodes

1471
00:56:48,170 --> 00:56:51,530
table, which we call NF items.

1472
00:56:53,090 --> 00:56:55,890
So you have those two tables are the

1473
00:56:55,890 --> 00:56:57,750
core of podcast index database.

1474
00:57:00,690 --> 00:57:03,810
Everything else is considered a secondary table.

1475
00:57:03,930 --> 00:57:05,830
That's just the terminology I use because those

1476
00:57:05,830 --> 00:57:08,070
are going to be things like soundbites, chapters,

1477
00:57:08,290 --> 00:57:13,270
person, locations, things that attach themselves to an

1478
00:57:13,270 --> 00:57:14,430
episode or a feed.

1479
00:57:15,930 --> 00:57:23,470
And you, and I always index tables like

1480
00:57:23,470 --> 00:57:25,110
that the same way.

1481
00:57:25,730 --> 00:57:29,670
And unless it's something very kind of unique

1482
00:57:29,670 --> 00:57:33,030
in that I use a compound index because

1483
00:57:33,030 --> 00:57:35,450
a lot of times we don't want or,

1484
00:57:35,450 --> 00:57:40,230
uh, or need or have a unique ID

1485
00:57:40,230 --> 00:57:41,330
for each of those tags.

1486
00:57:41,370 --> 00:57:44,110
So say take something like, well, something like

1487
00:57:44,110 --> 00:57:47,050
the soundbite tag, a soundbite tag doesn't have

1488
00:57:47,050 --> 00:57:50,150
an ID, you know, it doesn't have like

1489
00:57:50,150 --> 00:57:52,590
a globally unique ID for every soundbite that

1490
00:57:52,590 --> 00:57:53,110
exists.

1491
00:57:54,410 --> 00:57:56,730
So you have to sort of come up

1492
00:57:56,730 --> 00:58:01,390
with your own unique ID and a unique

1493
00:58:01,390 --> 00:58:05,850
ID for a soundbite tag could be, uh,

1494
00:58:05,910 --> 00:58:08,370
just all the attributes in the tag.

1495
00:58:08,750 --> 00:58:11,010
Those would all add up to be unique.

1496
00:58:12,490 --> 00:58:14,930
Um, so any, you know, another example of

1497
00:58:14,930 --> 00:58:15,670
the person tag.

1498
00:58:15,810 --> 00:58:18,970
So you might have a compound index on

1499
00:58:18,970 --> 00:58:21,450
all the attributes of the person tag, the

1500
00:58:21,450 --> 00:58:26,170
name, the bio, the avatar, the role, all

1501
00:58:26,170 --> 00:58:27,390
that kind of stuff combines.

1502
00:58:27,590 --> 00:58:29,210
If you just like smooshed all that stuff

1503
00:58:29,210 --> 00:58:31,990
together, you would have this big, big unique

1504
00:58:31,990 --> 00:58:33,390
value within the feed.

1505
00:58:35,030 --> 00:58:36,950
And that, what that would do is it

1506
00:58:36,950 --> 00:58:39,110
would naturally exclude duplicates.

1507
00:58:39,290 --> 00:58:41,070
So if somebody put the same tag in

1508
00:58:41,070 --> 00:58:44,830
there 20 times, you would only get one

1509
00:58:44,830 --> 00:58:47,010
of them because that's your unique index on

1510
00:58:47,010 --> 00:58:47,450
that table.

1511
00:58:47,930 --> 00:58:48,390
Right.

1512
00:58:48,910 --> 00:58:49,450
I'm with you.

1513
00:58:49,490 --> 00:58:49,970
I'm following.

1514
00:58:50,210 --> 00:58:50,390
Yeah.

1515
00:58:51,630 --> 00:58:53,830
So RSS can have duplicates.

1516
00:58:53,930 --> 00:58:55,230
It's not against the rules.

1517
00:58:55,630 --> 00:58:56,410
It's just XML.

1518
00:58:56,970 --> 00:58:57,890
You can have duplicates.

1519
00:58:58,350 --> 00:58:59,910
You can have the same ep, you can

1520
00:58:59,910 --> 00:59:03,790
have the same, uh, episode tag, uh, excuse

1521
00:59:03,790 --> 00:59:07,070
me, item tag with, uh, the same content

1522
00:59:07,070 --> 00:59:08,090
in it 27 times.

1523
00:59:08,710 --> 00:59:10,650
But you don't want the same GUID 27

1524
00:59:10,650 --> 00:59:11,370
times.

1525
00:59:11,970 --> 00:59:13,330
Oh, but you can.

1526
00:59:14,270 --> 00:59:14,670
Okay.

1527
00:59:14,690 --> 00:59:15,870
You know, you can have it.

1528
00:59:15,910 --> 00:59:17,850
It's not against the, it's not against the

1529
00:59:17,850 --> 00:59:18,090
rules.

1530
00:59:18,870 --> 00:59:21,130
It's not, it's going to, it's going to

1531
00:59:21,130 --> 00:59:22,750
break stuff, but it's not against the rules.

1532
00:59:22,750 --> 00:59:23,250
Yeah, it'll break stuff.

1533
00:59:23,410 --> 00:59:23,510
Yeah.

1534
00:59:23,570 --> 00:59:25,010
But it doesn't violate XML.

1535
00:59:25,010 --> 00:59:29,770
And so you have to naturally figure out

1536
00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:30,830
a way to filter that.

1537
00:59:31,630 --> 00:59:34,070
And as they get, as those things are

1538
00:59:34,070 --> 00:59:39,670
ingested, grip, yes, you can grip it, uh,

1539
00:59:39,670 --> 00:59:40,670
grip pipe.

1540
00:59:41,210 --> 00:59:43,910
Um, so you can, uh, so the way

1541
00:59:43,910 --> 00:59:47,550
you do that is by having well-constructed

1542
00:59:47,550 --> 00:59:52,950
compound indexes on, on, uh, XML data that

1543
00:59:52,950 --> 00:59:55,270
does not contain a unique identifier.

1544
00:59:58,180 --> 01:00:00,940
Well, the soundbites table did not get indexed

1545
01:00:00,940 --> 01:00:01,360
this way.

1546
01:00:02,400 --> 01:00:04,640
I figured that was the punchline.

1547
01:00:05,620 --> 01:00:09,880
Uh, I don't know what, I don't know

1548
01:00:09,880 --> 01:00:15,040
what exactly brain fart I had, but it

1549
01:00:15,040 --> 01:00:17,020
just, I just did not index this table

1550
01:00:17,020 --> 01:00:17,880
the right way.

1551
01:00:18,080 --> 01:00:18,420
Okay.

1552
01:00:18,480 --> 01:00:19,780
So where does that leave us?

1553
01:00:20,320 --> 01:00:22,360
So this means duplicate soundbites.

1554
01:00:22,520 --> 01:00:24,740
Oh, we're being created.

1555
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:27,740
Uh, anytime there was a new episode.

1556
01:00:28,160 --> 01:00:30,300
Oh, it would create a new, a new,

1557
01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,960
uh, no, go ahead.

1558
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:33,920
I'm just guessing.

1559
01:00:34,520 --> 01:00:36,340
Yeah, no, you're, you're on the right track.

1560
01:00:36,420 --> 01:00:40,660
Any, so the way the aggregators work is

1561
01:00:40,660 --> 01:00:44,260
that they only read, they only re-ingest

1562
01:00:44,260 --> 01:00:46,880
a feed if they detect a new episode.

1563
01:00:48,780 --> 01:00:52,960
So, um, in, or if they see, well,

1564
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:53,960
that's not exactly true.

1565
01:00:54,000 --> 01:00:55,740
If they detect a new episode or some

1566
01:00:55,740 --> 01:00:57,400
significant change to the feed.

1567
01:00:57,980 --> 01:01:00,380
So then they'll re-index all the episodes

1568
01:01:00,380 --> 01:01:01,500
and bring them all in.

1569
01:01:02,380 --> 01:01:05,100
So since that's not a common occurrence, most

1570
01:01:05,100 --> 01:01:09,440
of the time with most feeds, you, it's

1571
01:01:09,440 --> 01:01:11,640
not like we were getting a new set

1572
01:01:11,640 --> 01:01:14,320
of soundbites every single time it scanned the

1573
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:14,680
feed.

1574
01:01:15,100 --> 01:01:16,840
It was only when there were, there was

1575
01:01:16,840 --> 01:01:19,000
a new episode or some significant change was

1576
01:01:19,000 --> 01:01:19,360
made.

1577
01:01:19,540 --> 01:01:19,780
Right.

1578
01:01:21,360 --> 01:01:25,040
So I looked in the soundbites table was

1579
01:01:25,040 --> 01:01:25,960
four gigabytes.

1580
01:01:27,360 --> 01:01:31,320
It had 36 million soundbites in it.

1581
01:01:31,520 --> 01:01:34,300
And I was like, uh, that can't be

1582
01:01:34,300 --> 01:01:34,660
right.

1583
01:01:35,040 --> 01:01:37,820
That's not this, that seems a little excessive.

1584
01:01:38,680 --> 01:01:41,960
Um, so the soundbites table has a column

1585
01:01:41,960 --> 01:01:45,200
that references the episode ID from the episodes

1586
01:01:45,200 --> 01:01:45,600
table.

1587
01:01:46,540 --> 01:01:49,500
And I saw hundreds of soundbites for episodes

1588
01:01:49,500 --> 01:01:51,660
that only in the feed had like a

1589
01:01:51,660 --> 01:01:51,900
few.

1590
01:01:53,400 --> 01:01:55,000
Um, and then I looked on the index

1591
01:01:55,000 --> 01:01:56,700
and I looked at the structure and I

1592
01:01:56,700 --> 01:01:58,180
looked at the indexes that were on that

1593
01:01:58,180 --> 01:02:00,600
soundbites table and I was like, Oh, this

1594
01:02:00,600 --> 01:02:01,300
is okay.

1595
01:02:01,620 --> 01:02:03,260
So that's step one of the bug.

1596
01:02:03,340 --> 01:02:05,000
This is a multifaceted bug.

1597
01:02:05,580 --> 01:02:07,520
That was, that was part one.

1598
01:02:08,160 --> 01:02:09,480
Part two is this.

1599
01:02:11,320 --> 01:02:13,960
We've touched, we've touched on this in other,

1600
01:02:14,080 --> 01:02:17,020
uh, in another context before, but we've talked

1601
01:02:17,020 --> 01:02:19,280
about database table relationships.

1602
01:02:21,830 --> 01:02:23,470
So a simple example is this.

1603
01:02:23,550 --> 01:02:27,870
So imagine you have, um, imagine you have

1604
01:02:27,870 --> 01:02:30,950
a database of, let's say, let's say you're

1605
01:02:30,950 --> 01:02:31,430
a bookstore.

1606
01:02:31,970 --> 01:02:33,550
You have a database of books.

1607
01:02:34,250 --> 01:02:36,230
You have a books table in your database

1608
01:02:36,230 --> 01:02:37,870
and you have an author's table in your

1609
01:02:37,870 --> 01:02:38,330
database.

1610
01:02:39,670 --> 01:02:43,970
There's a column in the books table called

1611
01:02:43,970 --> 01:02:44,490
author.

1612
01:02:45,650 --> 01:02:50,150
And that column references the author's table and

1613
01:02:50,150 --> 01:02:51,330
that's what's called a relationship.

1614
01:02:51,730 --> 01:02:53,210
So that's, those are table relationships.

1615
01:02:53,470 --> 01:02:56,110
That means the value for the author field

1616
01:02:56,110 --> 01:03:00,690
of a book in the books table is

1617
01:03:00,690 --> 01:03:03,290
related to an entry in the author's table.

1618
01:03:04,430 --> 01:03:08,250
And you define those related, the defining the

1619
01:03:08,250 --> 01:03:10,650
relationships in that way is what keeps all

1620
01:03:10,650 --> 01:03:11,470
the data structured.

1621
01:03:11,590 --> 01:03:13,850
And that's what, if you, if you hear

1622
01:03:13,850 --> 01:03:17,230
the term, uh, a relational database, that's what

1623
01:03:17,230 --> 01:03:17,910
that means.

1624
01:03:19,630 --> 01:03:22,230
The way that the way this is typically

1625
01:03:22,230 --> 01:03:28,590
achieved is through, is you link, uh, is

1626
01:03:28,590 --> 01:03:30,730
you, you, the linking of something like an

1627
01:03:30,730 --> 01:03:31,090
ID.

1628
01:03:31,270 --> 01:03:31,490
Okay.

1629
01:03:31,490 --> 01:03:33,790
So you'd have like, there'd be an ID

1630
01:03:33,790 --> 01:03:35,030
column on the books table.

1631
01:03:35,030 --> 01:03:38,350
Every book would get an ID, a unique

1632
01:03:38,350 --> 01:03:38,710
ID.

1633
01:03:38,890 --> 01:03:40,310
And then there would be an ID column

1634
01:03:40,310 --> 01:03:42,350
on the author's table where they were, every

1635
01:03:42,350 --> 01:03:44,010
author would get a unique ID.

1636
01:03:44,490 --> 01:03:46,510
And in the books table, the author column

1637
01:03:46,510 --> 01:03:48,610
would have a reference to the ID column

1638
01:03:48,610 --> 01:03:49,470
in the author's table.

1639
01:03:49,590 --> 01:03:51,970
So every time you pull a list of

1640
01:03:51,970 --> 01:03:54,310
books, you're also getting a list of authors

1641
01:03:54,310 --> 01:03:55,970
of those books.

1642
01:03:57,510 --> 01:04:00,510
Um, and you do that through what's called

1643
01:04:00,510 --> 01:04:01,550
a join statement.

1644
01:04:01,550 --> 01:04:06,690
So you would say something like select all

1645
01:04:06,690 --> 01:04:08,410
books from the, you know, select all the

1646
01:04:08,410 --> 01:04:11,450
books from the books table and then join

1647
01:04:11,450 --> 01:04:14,090
the author's table onto the book, uh, onto

1648
01:04:14,090 --> 01:04:19,450
that result set, where the books.author equals

1649
01:04:19,450 --> 01:04:20,310
the author ID.

1650
01:04:20,910 --> 01:04:22,770
So now what you've gotten is you've gotten

1651
01:04:22,770 --> 01:04:25,970
all the books and then you've gotten all

1652
01:04:25,970 --> 01:04:28,030
the fields from the author's table that go

1653
01:04:28,030 --> 01:04:29,230
along with that book.

1654
01:04:29,230 --> 01:04:29,630
Mm hmm.

1655
01:04:31,190 --> 01:04:34,430
That creates a full, the full result set.

1656
01:04:34,850 --> 01:04:35,330
Okay.

1657
01:04:36,270 --> 01:04:39,550
And you do, and the joins are how

1658
01:04:39,550 --> 01:04:43,550
you build out all the data you need

1659
01:04:43,550 --> 01:04:45,470
in a single call rather than having to

1660
01:04:45,470 --> 01:04:47,090
do, go look up a little bit over

1661
01:04:47,090 --> 01:04:48,030
here, a little bit over there, a little

1662
01:04:48,030 --> 01:04:48,630
bit over here.

1663
01:04:49,610 --> 01:04:53,470
So Nate, you know, what I just described

1664
01:04:53,470 --> 01:04:57,050
is a one-to-one relationship.

1665
01:04:57,050 --> 01:05:00,430
So every book has one author and you

1666
01:05:00,430 --> 01:05:02,550
can visualize, you can visualize what this would

1667
01:05:02,550 --> 01:05:03,570
look like in your head.

1668
01:05:03,630 --> 01:05:04,930
If you think of just like an Excel

1669
01:05:04,930 --> 01:05:08,110
spreadsheet where every row is a book and

1670
01:05:08,110 --> 01:05:12,330
then there are column called authors with one

1671
01:05:12,330 --> 01:05:13,650
name in it.

1672
01:05:14,330 --> 01:05:21,330
However, however, obviously there's more, there's, things are

1673
01:05:21,330 --> 01:05:25,070
more complicated than that because now imagine that

1674
01:05:25,070 --> 01:05:28,670
books can have multiple authors, you know, which

1675
01:05:28,670 --> 01:05:30,670
is, is obviously a thing that happens.

1676
01:05:30,830 --> 01:05:32,370
So now we're talking about a one to

1677
01:05:32,370 --> 01:05:35,590
many relationship and you would tip it the

1678
01:05:35,590 --> 01:05:37,150
way you would typically handle this in a

1679
01:05:37,150 --> 01:05:39,830
relational database is you was, you'd have like

1680
01:05:39,830 --> 01:05:41,270
a three way table relationship.

1681
01:05:41,470 --> 01:05:43,870
You'd have like a database menage a trois

1682
01:05:43,870 --> 01:05:51,510
where you'd have a books table, an authors

1683
01:05:51,510 --> 01:05:54,510
table, and then you would have a pivot

1684
01:05:54,510 --> 01:05:56,550
table that links those two together.

1685
01:05:57,270 --> 01:05:59,370
So you may call it like the book

1686
01:05:59,370 --> 01:06:00,250
authors table.

1687
01:06:01,770 --> 01:06:05,070
So this book authors table has three columns.

1688
01:06:06,190 --> 01:06:08,710
It has an ID of its own because

1689
01:06:08,710 --> 01:06:09,730
that's good practice.

1690
01:06:10,310 --> 01:06:12,650
It has a book ID column and then

1691
01:06:12,650 --> 01:06:14,090
it has an author ID column.

1692
01:06:14,490 --> 01:06:17,330
So this, the, the purpose of this table

1693
01:06:17,330 --> 01:06:19,690
is to link authors with books.

1694
01:06:21,170 --> 01:06:23,910
Now, if you want one particular book, we

1695
01:06:23,910 --> 01:06:29,970
book, let's say, um, uh, as JCD, uh,

1696
01:06:29,970 --> 01:06:34,770
JCD book online, the book vinegar, the vinegar

1697
01:06:34,770 --> 01:06:39,930
book and it has, um, you know, multiple

1698
01:06:39,930 --> 01:06:40,350
authors.

1699
01:06:40,390 --> 01:06:41,970
It has him and Mimi.

1700
01:06:43,650 --> 01:06:49,870
So you could query the books table and

1701
01:06:49,870 --> 01:06:52,430
then join the book authors table on that,

1702
01:06:52,450 --> 01:06:53,810
on that book ID.

1703
01:06:54,090 --> 01:06:55,670
So let's say that the book ID for

1704
01:06:55,670 --> 01:06:57,010
that is 512.

1705
01:06:58,090 --> 01:07:02,670
You'd say select all the books from, you

1706
01:07:02,670 --> 01:07:04,450
say select from the books table where the

1707
01:07:04,450 --> 01:07:07,450
book ID equals five 12 then you're going

1708
01:07:07,450 --> 01:07:10,770
to join the book authors table, uh, where

1709
01:07:10,770 --> 01:07:14,470
the book ID equals five 12 then you're

1710
01:07:14,470 --> 01:07:17,990
going to join the authors table where the,

1711
01:07:17,990 --> 01:07:21,490
uh, author ID equals book authors, author ID.

1712
01:07:21,690 --> 01:07:24,270
So you're basically linking, you're chaining these things

1713
01:07:24,270 --> 01:07:27,510
together to get a complete results set where

1714
01:07:27,510 --> 01:07:30,750
you have books and all their authors.

1715
01:07:30,890 --> 01:07:32,630
Now, what do you think the results of

1716
01:07:32,630 --> 01:07:32,870
that?

1717
01:07:32,990 --> 01:07:34,230
What do you, if you were to visualize

1718
01:07:34,230 --> 01:07:36,450
that output as a spreadsheet, what would it

1719
01:07:36,450 --> 01:07:36,950
look like?

1720
01:07:37,350 --> 01:07:38,970
You lost me at Mimi.

1721
01:07:42,530 --> 01:07:46,190
So if you have, if you have multi,

1722
01:07:46,270 --> 01:07:48,030
if you have a result set from a

1723
01:07:48,030 --> 01:07:52,250
database query where one of the tables that

1724
01:07:52,250 --> 01:07:58,870
you're querying has multiple results, but the one

1725
01:07:58,870 --> 01:08:01,230
that it was joined onto only has one

1726
01:08:01,230 --> 01:08:01,730
result.

1727
01:08:01,830 --> 01:08:02,150
Okay.

1728
01:08:02,190 --> 01:08:05,590
So you're searching for one book, but you

1729
01:08:05,590 --> 01:08:06,810
want to get all the authors.

1730
01:08:07,750 --> 01:08:09,130
And what it's going to give you back

1731
01:08:09,130 --> 01:08:10,850
is a, is a set of rows, just

1732
01:08:10,850 --> 01:08:12,410
like an Excel spreadsheet, right?

1733
01:08:12,430 --> 01:08:13,130
Of authors.

1734
01:08:13,830 --> 01:08:16,630
So what goes into all those other columns?

1735
01:08:16,950 --> 01:08:18,490
Because what you're having is you've got the

1736
01:08:18,490 --> 01:08:21,350
book title, the book publication date, the book

1737
01:08:21,350 --> 01:08:22,670
publisher, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

1738
01:08:22,729 --> 01:08:24,529
And only one of the columns is author.

1739
01:08:25,750 --> 01:08:28,130
So what goes in all those other columns

1740
01:08:28,130 --> 01:08:30,370
in the results set?

1741
01:08:31,050 --> 01:08:32,490
Because you're going to have two entries.

1742
01:08:32,590 --> 01:08:34,330
You're going to have two rows, one for

1743
01:08:34,330 --> 01:08:37,649
JCD and one for Mimi, but you still

1744
01:08:37,649 --> 01:08:39,250
have all these other columns and what goes

1745
01:08:39,250 --> 01:08:39,970
in those columns.

1746
01:08:41,270 --> 01:08:42,609
And I can tell you what goes in

1747
01:08:42,609 --> 01:08:44,729
those columns because the way SQL works is

1748
01:08:44,729 --> 01:08:46,830
you're going to get an exact duplicate row,

1749
01:08:47,510 --> 01:08:49,350
except for the author is going to be

1750
01:08:49,350 --> 01:08:49,649
different.

1751
01:08:50,310 --> 01:08:51,830
So what is going to look like in

1752
01:08:51,830 --> 01:08:53,649
the resulting output is that you have two

1753
01:08:53,649 --> 01:08:57,990
identical books with two different authors, but you

1754
01:08:57,990 --> 01:09:00,290
don't, you only have one book with two

1755
01:09:00,290 --> 01:09:03,130
authors, but that's not what the results set

1756
01:09:03,130 --> 01:09:03,630
looks like.

1757
01:09:03,630 --> 01:09:04,590
So SQL is broken.

1758
01:09:06,189 --> 01:09:08,170
Yes, we brought, yes.

1759
01:09:08,830 --> 01:09:12,130
Um, so for this, this is the way

1760
01:09:12,130 --> 01:09:12,850
SQL works.

1761
01:09:12,910 --> 01:09:15,550
And for this reason in the API code

1762
01:09:15,550 --> 01:09:18,330
of the podcast index, and this is kind

1763
01:09:18,330 --> 01:09:19,430
of, you know, it's very common.

1764
01:09:20,350 --> 01:09:22,689
I have to pull out those duplicate rows.

1765
01:09:22,810 --> 01:09:23,990
You have to do something.

1766
01:09:24,130 --> 01:09:25,890
You have to do something that takes a

1767
01:09:25,890 --> 01:09:27,510
result set that looks like that.

1768
01:09:27,510 --> 01:09:35,410
And then files it down to have only

1769
01:09:35,410 --> 01:09:36,029
the episode.

1770
01:09:36,090 --> 01:09:37,430
So I'm like, you remember, I'm looking for

1771
01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:39,250
episodes here and I want to get all

1772
01:09:39,250 --> 01:09:41,229
the sound bites that go with those episodes.

1773
01:09:41,410 --> 01:09:43,569
So, so, and one episode can have multiple

1774
01:09:43,569 --> 01:09:44,210
sound bites.

1775
01:09:45,229 --> 01:09:46,930
So you're going to get that episode back

1776
01:09:46,930 --> 01:09:48,390
multiple times.

1777
01:09:49,729 --> 01:09:51,850
Oh, you have to do something that filters.

1778
01:09:51,970 --> 01:09:52,229
Yes.

1779
01:09:52,350 --> 01:09:52,609
Okay.

1780
01:09:52,630 --> 01:09:54,190
So here's, we're back to gripped.

1781
01:09:54,290 --> 01:09:55,150
We're back to gripped.

1782
01:09:56,090 --> 01:09:59,570
This is the actual I'm posting in the,

1783
01:09:59,570 --> 01:10:00,750
in the boardroom.

1784
01:10:01,110 --> 01:10:04,690
This is the actual code from that gets,

1785
01:10:04,890 --> 01:10:07,950
this is the function that gets called when

1786
01:10:07,950 --> 01:10:10,910
you do an API call on podcast index

1787
01:10:10,910 --> 01:10:13,330
for get episodes by feed ID.

1788
01:10:14,530 --> 01:10:17,510
Um, there's some stuff that the endpoint does,

1789
01:10:17,650 --> 01:10:20,710
but, but this is the main workhorse that

1790
01:10:20,710 --> 01:10:24,910
gets called at, at the database items by

1791
01:10:24,910 --> 01:10:25,350
feed.

1792
01:10:26,270 --> 01:10:26,990
Yes.

1793
01:10:27,930 --> 01:10:30,170
And so you can see, uh, I think

1794
01:10:30,170 --> 01:10:31,750
it's line two 83.

1795
01:10:33,830 --> 01:10:38,250
You can see that this is, it's filtering

1796
01:10:38,250 --> 01:10:38,710
out.

1797
01:10:38,730 --> 01:10:39,070
Okay.

1798
01:10:39,810 --> 01:10:44,150
It's saying, um, I'm it we already know

1799
01:10:44,150 --> 01:10:46,270
we're going to get lots of iterations of

1800
01:10:46,270 --> 01:10:46,890
the same.

1801
01:10:47,170 --> 01:10:48,930
We're going to get what is in effect,

1802
01:10:49,130 --> 01:10:50,230
duplicate episodes.

1803
01:10:50,230 --> 01:10:54,730
So we want to filter through those duplicate

1804
01:10:54,730 --> 01:10:57,270
episodes and we're not looking where we get

1805
01:10:57,270 --> 01:10:58,490
the episode once.

1806
01:10:59,190 --> 01:11:02,550
And then we add the sound bites to

1807
01:11:02,550 --> 01:11:05,290
that episode as separate parts of the response

1808
01:11:05,290 --> 01:11:07,350
object that we're building to send back in

1809
01:11:07,350 --> 01:11:08,230
the API call.

1810
01:11:08,830 --> 01:11:11,590
But we only want to add the sound

1811
01:11:11,590 --> 01:11:13,510
bite if we haven't already added it.

1812
01:11:15,490 --> 01:11:20,450
Um, and so because this is complicated, complicated,

1813
01:11:20,770 --> 01:11:24,910
but, but remember, this is not just sound

1814
01:11:24,910 --> 01:11:25,090
bites.

1815
01:11:25,150 --> 01:11:26,610
This is multiple joins.

1816
01:11:27,670 --> 01:11:29,670
So what's getting joined here, you can see

1817
01:11:29,670 --> 01:11:31,470
the list of joins up in the code.

1818
01:11:32,130 --> 01:11:34,370
It's joining the chapters table, the transcripts table,

1819
01:11:34,430 --> 01:11:36,310
the soundbites table, the person's table, the value

1820
01:11:36,310 --> 01:11:38,950
table, the social learner, the value timesplits and

1821
01:11:38,950 --> 01:11:39,670
the nfguids.

1822
01:11:39,910 --> 01:11:40,010
Yeah.

1823
01:11:40,250 --> 01:11:42,210
So there's a lot of joins going on

1824
01:11:42,210 --> 01:11:42,330
here.

1825
01:11:42,350 --> 01:11:44,070
So you're going to get multiples of all

1826
01:11:44,070 --> 01:11:46,230
these rows many, many, many times.

1827
01:11:46,230 --> 01:11:47,850
And that's going to fill up memory and

1828
01:11:47,850 --> 01:11:49,230
bork the result.

1829
01:11:50,410 --> 01:11:53,490
If you don't, if you're not careful to

1830
01:11:53,490 --> 01:11:54,310
exclude them.

1831
01:11:54,730 --> 01:11:54,870
Yes.

1832
01:11:55,810 --> 01:11:57,050
So this was part.

1833
01:11:57,190 --> 01:11:59,550
If only you built this in Frontier, this

1834
01:11:59,550 --> 01:12:00,630
wouldn't be a problem.

1835
01:12:01,430 --> 01:12:01,950
Frontier.

1836
01:12:02,290 --> 01:12:02,670
Yes.

1837
01:12:03,010 --> 01:12:03,310
Yes.

1838
01:12:03,670 --> 01:12:04,190
Userland.

1839
01:12:06,630 --> 01:12:08,650
And for some reason in this case, I

1840
01:12:08,650 --> 01:12:09,710
wasn't doing that either.

1841
01:12:11,690 --> 01:12:13,230
This is the fixed code.

1842
01:12:13,350 --> 01:12:15,250
The other code, I just, I was just

1843
01:12:15,250 --> 01:12:17,270
taking whatever I was given and sticking it

1844
01:12:17,270 --> 01:12:17,790
back in there.

1845
01:12:18,210 --> 01:12:20,330
It was pulling all the soundbites from the

1846
01:12:20,330 --> 01:12:22,230
SQL response without ever looking to see if

1847
01:12:22,230 --> 01:12:24,430
it had already had that soundbite in the

1848
01:12:24,430 --> 01:12:25,150
response object.

1849
01:12:25,370 --> 01:12:27,710
Oh man, this is what a crazy bug,

1850
01:12:27,830 --> 01:12:28,110
Dave.

1851
01:12:29,590 --> 01:12:31,830
What this was bugs all the way down.

1852
01:12:32,090 --> 01:12:33,750
I mean, this was a complete, this was

1853
01:12:33,750 --> 01:12:37,450
a complete brain fart on my, on my

1854
01:12:37,450 --> 01:12:38,110
side of things.

1855
01:12:38,150 --> 01:12:41,170
I mean, this was, I still don't understand

1856
01:12:41,170 --> 01:12:42,430
why I got this so wrong.

1857
01:12:43,590 --> 01:12:46,790
The only thing I can think, my only

1858
01:12:46,790 --> 01:12:51,850
thinking here is that I was doing, is

1859
01:12:51,850 --> 01:12:53,990
that I was putting the soundbite stuff in

1860
01:12:53,990 --> 01:12:59,650
play and that I got, I may have

1861
01:12:59,650 --> 01:13:02,030
gotten interrupted in them and just forgot what

1862
01:13:02,030 --> 01:13:04,190
I was doing because this is not normal.

1863
01:13:04,530 --> 01:13:06,510
This is what I typically do on a

1864
01:13:06,510 --> 01:13:08,770
situation like this is I, I basically just

1865
01:13:08,770 --> 01:13:10,630
take, and this is what every programmer does.

1866
01:13:10,630 --> 01:13:12,410
You take what you did before and you

1867
01:13:12,410 --> 01:13:13,290
just replicate it again.

1868
01:13:13,370 --> 01:13:14,370
You do the same thing again.

1869
01:13:14,570 --> 01:13:16,810
You know, you take, because all these things

1870
01:13:16,810 --> 01:13:17,570
follow a pattern.

1871
01:13:17,690 --> 01:13:20,110
I mean, the persons, chapters, soundbites, they all

1872
01:13:20,110 --> 01:13:21,490
follow a consistent pattern.

1873
01:13:22,130 --> 01:13:24,290
So you just copy and paste over your

1874
01:13:24,290 --> 01:13:26,230
code, then make a couple of modifications and

1875
01:13:26,230 --> 01:13:27,610
you, you know, you do your thing.

1876
01:13:28,630 --> 01:13:31,370
But that's, that's just looking at that soundbite

1877
01:13:31,370 --> 01:13:31,710
code.

1878
01:13:31,890 --> 01:13:34,410
I was like, why did I do this?

1879
01:13:35,230 --> 01:13:37,130
Cause it was completely different than the rest

1880
01:13:37,130 --> 01:13:37,590
of the code.

1881
01:13:37,690 --> 01:13:40,770
But you know, the human element came in

1882
01:13:40,770 --> 01:13:43,910
because I kept thinking the whole time about

1883
01:13:43,910 --> 01:13:45,290
that old bug that Barry had.

1884
01:13:45,350 --> 01:13:47,910
And I just was thinking this has to

1885
01:13:47,910 --> 01:13:48,870
be on his side.

1886
01:13:50,670 --> 01:13:52,990
Um, and as the new, and it was

1887
01:13:52,990 --> 01:13:57,510
enough of a head fake because every time

1888
01:13:57,510 --> 01:14:00,370
I would reset the ungovernable misfits feed, it

1889
01:14:00,370 --> 01:14:02,710
would remove everything related to that feed from

1890
01:14:02,710 --> 01:14:07,170
all the tables because like part of table

1891
01:14:07,170 --> 01:14:09,010
relationships is you can sit, you can set

1892
01:14:09,010 --> 01:14:09,650
what's called cascades.

1893
01:14:10,950 --> 01:14:14,390
And so what you can do is every

1894
01:14:14,390 --> 01:14:15,750
table that references.

1895
01:14:15,950 --> 01:14:18,050
So, so we have an episodes table, right?

1896
01:14:18,090 --> 01:14:19,770
And each episode gets an ID.

1897
01:14:20,450 --> 01:14:23,670
Well, all the, all the things like transcripts,

1898
01:14:23,710 --> 01:14:29,150
chapters, uh, soundbites, persons, all those tables that

1899
01:14:29,150 --> 01:14:32,530
hang off of it, the episodes table, they

1900
01:14:32,530 --> 01:14:34,310
reference those episode IDs.

1901
01:14:34,970 --> 01:14:36,750
So if you set a cascade on, on

1902
01:14:36,750 --> 01:14:40,850
those reference on those secondary tables, you can

1903
01:14:40,850 --> 01:14:42,950
have it where when you delete the episode,

1904
01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:47,330
anything on another table that references those, those

1905
01:14:47,330 --> 01:14:48,530
entries also get deleted.

1906
01:14:49,170 --> 01:14:51,550
So that's very convenient because you can wipe,

1907
01:14:51,670 --> 01:14:53,150
you don't have to go clean up after

1908
01:14:53,150 --> 01:14:53,670
yourself.

1909
01:14:54,290 --> 01:14:57,130
Everything just gets, but you know, it's like,

1910
01:14:57,190 --> 01:14:58,830
okay, well this episode is now gone.

1911
01:14:58,830 --> 01:15:00,710
Well, everything that referenced that episode, that also

1912
01:15:00,710 --> 01:15:02,470
needs to be gone because it's now invalid

1913
01:15:02,470 --> 01:15:02,910
data.

1914
01:15:03,830 --> 01:15:05,970
So it would wipe everything.

1915
01:15:07,250 --> 01:15:09,270
Um, and this would temporarily solve the problem

1916
01:15:09,270 --> 01:15:13,710
because now there's just the exact sound bites

1917
01:15:13,710 --> 01:15:15,130
from the feed in the database.

1918
01:15:15,470 --> 01:15:17,070
There's no duplicates at all.

1919
01:15:17,790 --> 01:15:19,890
And I was like, okay, well, maybe there

1920
01:15:19,890 --> 01:15:21,950
was a caching problem on Barry's side, blah,

1921
01:15:21,970 --> 01:15:22,510
blah, blah, blah, blah.

1922
01:15:23,830 --> 01:15:25,390
Because now it's fixed.

1923
01:15:26,150 --> 01:15:29,530
Um, but then as new episodes were released,

1924
01:15:29,690 --> 01:15:31,970
the sound bites would begin to duplicate and

1925
01:15:31,970 --> 01:15:33,630
then it would build up over time.

1926
01:15:34,110 --> 01:15:35,950
So the here's, so the fix for this,

1927
01:15:36,490 --> 01:15:39,250
Oh, thank God there's a fix.

1928
01:15:40,310 --> 01:15:42,730
The fixes is implemented and done.

1929
01:15:43,430 --> 01:15:48,770
The first, first, stop all the aggregators from

1930
01:15:48,770 --> 01:15:51,970
ingesting sound bites because you gotta, the sound

1931
01:15:51,970 --> 01:15:53,330
bites table at this point needs to be

1932
01:15:53,330 --> 01:15:54,710
read only.

1933
01:15:54,710 --> 01:15:56,690
So we don't want anything being written to

1934
01:15:56,690 --> 01:15:56,850
it.

1935
01:15:56,990 --> 01:16:00,130
So then you, then I exported all the

1936
01:16:00,130 --> 01:16:02,650
sound bites, every record out of the sound

1937
01:16:02,650 --> 01:16:05,530
bites table into a CSV file because I

1938
01:16:05,530 --> 01:16:07,190
don't want to have to reread all these

1939
01:16:07,190 --> 01:16:07,570
feeds.

1940
01:16:08,750 --> 01:16:11,650
Um, cause I don't know which feeds have

1941
01:16:11,650 --> 01:16:15,050
the problem, have the, yeah, well, have, um,

1942
01:16:15,210 --> 01:16:15,890
sound bites in them.

1943
01:16:15,910 --> 01:16:17,530
You know, I just don't cause I'm getting

1944
01:16:17,530 --> 01:16:18,610
rid of the sound bites table.

1945
01:16:18,790 --> 01:16:18,970
Yeah.

1946
01:16:19,310 --> 01:16:21,990
So you export all the sound bites entries

1947
01:16:21,990 --> 01:16:23,210
into a CSV file.

1948
01:16:24,290 --> 01:16:25,690
Truncate the sound bites table.

1949
01:16:25,830 --> 01:16:28,790
Now, truncate is a SQL function that you

1950
01:16:28,790 --> 01:16:29,270
can do.

1951
01:16:30,370 --> 01:16:31,750
It's like instantaneous.

1952
01:16:31,990 --> 01:16:33,490
It just basically empties the table.

1953
01:16:33,630 --> 01:16:34,810
You don't have to do like a whole

1954
01:16:34,810 --> 01:16:35,470
bunch of deletes.

1955
01:16:36,490 --> 01:16:37,950
And the nice thing about that is it

1956
01:16:37,950 --> 01:16:39,070
doesn't lock the database.

1957
01:16:39,230 --> 01:16:41,770
So you can just basically just, it's gone.

1958
01:16:43,350 --> 01:16:46,030
Empty the sound bites table, modify the indexes

1959
01:16:46,030 --> 01:16:47,810
on the table so that now it includes

1960
01:16:47,810 --> 01:16:49,950
the proper indexes so that you won't get

1961
01:16:49,950 --> 01:16:50,690
duplicates.

1962
01:16:50,690 --> 01:16:57,440
Um, making a compound index, download the CSV

1963
01:16:57,440 --> 01:17:01,320
of all the exported, you know, sound bite

1964
01:17:01,320 --> 01:17:04,620
entries, create a temporary table in a SQLite

1965
01:17:04,620 --> 01:17:08,400
database with the same index parameters as what's

1966
01:17:08,400 --> 01:17:10,040
now in this, in this, in the main

1967
01:17:10,040 --> 01:17:13,820
database, import the CSV file into the SQLite

1968
01:17:13,820 --> 01:17:14,220
table.

1969
01:17:15,220 --> 01:17:17,620
Basically it's using SQLite as a way to

1970
01:17:17,620 --> 01:17:18,540
de-duplicate.

1971
01:17:18,540 --> 01:17:23,420
And then export out of SQLite back to

1972
01:17:23,420 --> 01:17:26,820
CSV because what I, because I don't want

1973
01:17:26,820 --> 01:17:29,380
to have to upload a humongous CSV.

1974
01:17:29,760 --> 01:17:31,360
I mean, this thing was four gigabytes.

1975
01:17:31,840 --> 01:17:33,000
You know, I get to get this thing

1976
01:17:33,000 --> 01:17:34,240
as small as I can.

1977
01:17:36,000 --> 01:17:39,100
So export that CS, that now de-duplicated

1978
01:17:39,100 --> 01:17:41,400
the CSV back out.

1979
01:17:41,900 --> 01:17:44,160
And I wrote a PHP script, PHP script

1980
01:17:44,160 --> 01:17:47,300
that would just like slowly ingest these back

1981
01:17:47,300 --> 01:17:48,180
into the sound bites table.

1982
01:17:48,260 --> 01:17:49,200
Cause I didn't want to do like a

1983
01:17:49,200 --> 01:17:50,100
mass import.

1984
01:17:51,600 --> 01:17:53,660
Then go in and fix the API code.

1985
01:17:53,740 --> 01:17:56,360
So this properly de-duplicate, de-duplicating the

1986
01:17:56,360 --> 01:18:01,080
SQL results, then turn the sound bite aggregation

1987
01:18:01,080 --> 01:18:03,360
back on in the, across the aggregator fleet.

1988
01:18:03,520 --> 01:18:08,240
So that was, that was what happened.

1989
01:18:09,200 --> 01:18:12,680
Um, I guess Sunday and Monday of last

1990
01:18:12,680 --> 01:18:15,620
weekend, uh, uh, was.

1991
01:18:15,860 --> 01:18:17,040
You needed that.

1992
01:18:17,180 --> 01:18:18,060
You really needed that.

1993
01:18:18,220 --> 01:18:18,760
That was great.

1994
01:18:19,120 --> 01:18:20,560
It was, it was wonderful.

1995
01:18:20,900 --> 01:18:21,240
Yeah.

1996
01:18:21,760 --> 01:18:22,000
Yeah.

1997
01:18:22,040 --> 01:18:27,460
And you know, hearty apologies to Dutch master

1998
01:18:27,460 --> 01:18:27,860
Barry.

1999
01:18:27,960 --> 01:18:32,660
I, I was, I was blaming him for

2000
01:18:32,660 --> 01:18:36,160
like three months on this and it was

2001
01:18:36,160 --> 01:18:37,900
my problem the whole time.

2002
01:18:38,160 --> 01:18:40,540
And, but now, but we got it fixed.

2003
01:18:41,060 --> 01:18:44,880
And also, also apologies to Oscar and, uh,

2004
01:18:44,880 --> 01:18:46,120
for blaming them.

2005
01:18:46,800 --> 01:18:49,560
And I didn't blame them as I just,

2006
01:18:49,620 --> 01:18:54,520
cause Oscar depends on a podcast index to

2007
01:18:54,520 --> 01:18:55,980
get value value splits.

2008
01:18:56,120 --> 01:18:56,240
Yeah.

2009
01:18:56,280 --> 01:18:57,780
And it wasn't, nothing was coming out.

2010
01:18:57,840 --> 01:18:58,380
It was breaking.

2011
01:18:58,480 --> 01:18:58,620
Yeah.

2012
01:18:58,720 --> 01:18:59,280
It would just work.

2013
01:18:59,420 --> 01:18:59,620
Yeah.

2014
01:18:59,720 --> 01:19:02,580
So anyway, I, it, it was my problem

2015
01:19:02,580 --> 01:19:03,900
the whole time, but now we got it

2016
01:19:03,900 --> 01:19:04,080
fixed.

2017
01:19:05,080 --> 01:19:09,760
This has been another episode of Database Storytime

2018
01:19:09,760 --> 01:19:12,620
with Dave Jones.

2019
01:19:13,100 --> 01:19:17,040
Please join us next time when Dave will

2020
01:19:17,040 --> 01:19:22,240
explain out of memory errors on Linode infrastructure

2021
01:19:22,240 --> 01:19:26,960
right here on Database Storytime.

2022
01:19:34,720 --> 01:19:35,660
Next week.

2023
01:19:35,660 --> 01:19:37,220
What does it mean when you go to

2024
01:19:37,220 --> 01:19:38,900
a bulletin board and it says too many

2025
01:19:38,900 --> 01:19:39,420
connections?

2026
01:19:42,140 --> 01:19:42,940
Oh man.

2027
01:19:43,020 --> 01:19:43,260
Okay.

2028
01:19:43,280 --> 01:19:44,880
Well you've, you've eaten up all of the

2029
01:19:44,880 --> 01:19:46,000
rest of our time for today.

2030
01:19:47,000 --> 01:19:47,740
I'm sorry.

2031
01:19:47,800 --> 01:19:48,460
No, that's okay.

2032
01:19:48,540 --> 01:19:50,660
It was, this was, I mean, okay.

2033
01:19:51,460 --> 01:19:54,180
I actually was working on an excess LT

2034
01:19:54,180 --> 01:19:56,520
style sheet in the meantime, but you know,

2035
01:19:56,580 --> 01:20:00,320
otherwise, well actually, you know, I, the person

2036
01:20:00,320 --> 01:20:03,260
I really blame is clearly not myself.

2037
01:20:03,840 --> 01:20:06,420
The person, the person I truly blame is

2038
01:20:06,420 --> 01:20:07,000
John Spurlock.

2039
01:20:07,380 --> 01:20:07,920
Oh really?

2040
01:20:08,060 --> 01:20:09,760
How does Spurlock get the blame for this?

2041
01:20:10,200 --> 01:20:13,140
Because he gets full database dumps of the

2042
01:20:13,140 --> 01:20:15,140
podcast index with every table.

2043
01:20:15,320 --> 01:20:15,760
He should know.

2044
01:20:16,240 --> 01:20:17,400
He should have seen this.

2045
01:20:17,520 --> 01:20:18,980
He should have seen this months ago.

2046
01:20:19,740 --> 01:20:20,340
What are you doing?

2047
01:20:20,460 --> 01:20:21,680
What are you doing Spurlock?

2048
01:20:22,460 --> 01:20:22,740
Yeah.

2049
01:20:22,780 --> 01:20:24,640
He's just, he's clearly not paying attention.

2050
01:20:24,800 --> 01:20:25,560
He's asleep at the wheel.

2051
01:20:26,140 --> 01:20:27,840
I want to thank some people who support

2052
01:20:27,840 --> 01:20:28,980
the podcast index.

2053
01:20:28,980 --> 01:20:30,900
Many of you have been supporting it for

2054
01:20:30,900 --> 01:20:32,120
five years now.

2055
01:20:32,180 --> 01:20:34,520
As we continue to bring you the boardroom

2056
01:20:34,520 --> 01:20:36,320
with all of the, we got warts and

2057
01:20:36,320 --> 01:20:38,080
all in this one, man, man.

2058
01:20:38,900 --> 01:20:41,300
Thank you Dave so much for you do

2059
01:20:41,300 --> 01:20:42,800
all this for no money.

2060
01:20:44,380 --> 01:20:46,120
Exposing my flaws in public.

2061
01:20:46,340 --> 01:20:46,760
That's wonderful.

2062
01:20:47,100 --> 01:20:48,200
That's, that's part of it.

2063
01:20:48,220 --> 01:20:50,740
But man, what you have built is just

2064
01:20:50,740 --> 01:20:53,700
a beautiful system and it's so highly appreciated.

2065
01:20:54,420 --> 01:20:55,520
I'm tearing up.

2066
01:20:57,920 --> 01:21:00,640
You can support the podcast index and all

2067
01:21:00,640 --> 01:21:03,060
of the infrastructure that Dave needs to make

2068
01:21:03,060 --> 01:21:03,840
all of this work.

2069
01:21:03,960 --> 01:21:05,360
And it always does.

2070
01:21:05,500 --> 01:21:07,280
I mean, have we ever had any real

2071
01:21:07,280 --> 01:21:08,400
actual downtime?

2072
01:21:08,600 --> 01:21:09,560
I don't think so.

2073
01:21:09,960 --> 01:21:10,800
On the index?

2074
01:21:10,920 --> 01:21:11,140
Yeah.

2075
01:21:11,320 --> 01:21:12,620
I don't think we've ever had it like

2076
01:21:12,620 --> 01:21:14,700
a, like a downtime downtime.

2077
01:21:15,380 --> 01:21:16,520
Like it didn't work.

2078
01:21:17,420 --> 01:21:18,440
I don't think so.

2079
01:21:18,460 --> 01:21:21,100
We had downtime one once I think when,

2080
01:21:21,800 --> 01:21:23,620
didn't we have a downtime once?

2081
01:21:23,620 --> 01:21:24,940
I don't think, see, this is what I

2082
01:21:24,940 --> 01:21:25,120
mean.

2083
01:21:25,220 --> 01:21:28,500
No, your error log is like two bites.

2084
01:21:32,200 --> 01:21:33,220
It's been created.

2085
01:21:35,440 --> 01:21:36,700
Let's not talk about downtime.

2086
01:21:38,460 --> 01:21:40,440
Boost that came in while we were chatting

2087
01:21:40,440 --> 01:21:43,300
and of course we appreciate you supporting this

2088
01:21:43,300 --> 01:21:44,540
project value for value.

2089
01:21:44,640 --> 01:21:46,820
You can go to podcastindex.org at the

2090
01:21:46,820 --> 01:21:47,020
bottom.

2091
01:21:47,160 --> 01:21:47,960
There's a big red button.

2092
01:21:48,060 --> 01:21:49,440
You can hit that and you can support

2093
01:21:49,440 --> 01:21:51,520
us with your fiat fund coupons through PayPal.

2094
01:21:51,520 --> 01:21:53,680
We love boost coming into the modern podcast

2095
01:21:53,680 --> 01:21:57,060
apps row of ducks from Martin Lindeskog known

2096
01:21:57,060 --> 01:21:57,760
as Lyceum.

2097
01:21:57,920 --> 01:22:00,400
And he actually, so he always has like

2098
01:22:00,400 --> 01:22:01,520
a running dialogue.

2099
01:22:01,520 --> 01:22:03,720
So I got to find it and then

2100
01:22:03,720 --> 01:22:05,020
read it in reverse.

2101
01:22:06,140 --> 01:22:08,080
So let me see if I can find

2102
01:22:08,080 --> 01:22:09,100
his first one.

2103
01:22:10,000 --> 01:22:14,060
So he sends 420 boost for the hackathon,

2104
01:22:14,280 --> 01:22:16,580
then a hundred great to hear what's the

2105
01:22:16,580 --> 01:22:17,120
next step.

2106
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:19,380
It's like he's sending us text messages.

2107
01:22:21,060 --> 01:22:22,240
I'm not replying.

2108
01:22:22,920 --> 01:22:24,680
And he says, as a side note, I

2109
01:22:24,680 --> 01:22:26,900
like that you were showing comments on podcastindex

2110
01:22:26,900 --> 01:22:27,940
.org for your podcast.

2111
01:22:28,220 --> 01:22:30,240
Yes, this is a, is this thanks to

2112
01:22:30,240 --> 01:22:32,540
the thread on Macedon activity pub protocol?

2113
01:22:32,800 --> 01:22:34,420
Yes, that is exactly what it is.

2114
01:22:34,420 --> 01:22:36,920
It's the the activity.

2115
01:22:37,300 --> 01:22:37,920
No, what is it?

2116
01:22:37,940 --> 01:22:39,520
The what's the tag?

2117
01:22:41,620 --> 01:22:42,660
Social interaction.

2118
01:22:43,660 --> 01:22:44,180
Yeah.

2119
01:22:44,460 --> 01:22:44,600
Yeah.

2120
01:22:44,780 --> 01:22:47,520
We keep using that and I'll just keep

2121
01:22:47,520 --> 01:22:48,160
using it.

2122
01:22:48,880 --> 01:22:50,840
He says you have your ducks in a

2123
01:22:50,840 --> 01:22:50,960
row.

2124
01:22:51,080 --> 01:22:52,480
That's why I sent 22, 22.

2125
01:22:52,680 --> 01:22:52,940
Perfect.

2126
01:22:54,080 --> 01:22:57,860
We got a boost from Sam, Sam Sethi.

2127
01:22:58,360 --> 01:23:02,100
Hey, the Seth, Seth Meister, triple seven.

2128
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:05,080
The original goal of RSS really simple syndication

2129
01:23:05,080 --> 01:23:07,080
was to grab data from around the web

2130
01:23:07,080 --> 01:23:08,820
and bring it into the Netscape portal.

2131
01:23:09,140 --> 01:23:11,060
So stocks, weather, sports, et cetera.

2132
01:23:11,180 --> 01:23:13,940
My boss Mike Homer had the original RSS

2133
01:23:13,940 --> 01:23:17,320
feed idea and Danny Libby coded the first

2134
01:23:17,320 --> 01:23:18,440
XML RSS.

2135
01:23:18,660 --> 01:23:20,320
Today we have come full circle and have

2136
01:23:20,320 --> 01:23:23,520
the podcast portal page with podcast blog events,

2137
01:23:23,700 --> 01:23:24,340
merch, et cetera.

2138
01:23:25,000 --> 01:23:26,580
See, I thought I was coming up with

2139
01:23:26,580 --> 01:23:28,380
something new, but Sam has already done it.

2140
01:23:28,580 --> 01:23:29,100
It's amazing.

2141
01:23:29,680 --> 01:23:30,220
It's amazing.

2142
01:23:30,840 --> 01:23:31,260
What happened?

2143
01:23:31,340 --> 01:23:31,880
The way it works.

2144
01:23:32,420 --> 01:23:35,600
1776 from Lyceum again, Martin is code Liberty

2145
01:23:35,600 --> 01:23:35,960
boost.

2146
01:23:36,040 --> 01:23:38,040
He says salty crayon with the triple seven

2147
01:23:38,040 --> 01:23:40,540
audio or video is the simple V8 that

2148
01:23:40,540 --> 01:23:42,860
still has knobs, buttons, and a gear shift.

2149
01:23:43,380 --> 01:23:46,340
Video is 2025 vehicles with a giant iPad

2150
01:23:46,340 --> 01:23:47,920
that keeps your eyes off the road.

2151
01:23:48,040 --> 01:23:49,020
Audio is King.

2152
01:23:50,900 --> 01:23:51,740
Thank you.

2153
01:23:52,220 --> 01:23:54,980
Another salty crayon three, three, three, just a

2154
01:23:54,980 --> 01:23:56,580
node rebuild test in the pipe.

2155
01:23:56,700 --> 01:23:57,100
It worked.

2156
01:23:57,220 --> 01:23:57,820
It sure did.

2157
01:23:58,700 --> 01:24:00,020
And there's the delimiter.

2158
01:24:00,580 --> 01:24:02,760
So you're up a drip.

2159
01:24:02,840 --> 01:24:06,480
Scott, we'll get some, get some monthly's here.

2160
01:24:06,500 --> 01:24:07,360
I'm going to, these are all mixed.

2161
01:24:07,400 --> 01:24:08,660
These are all mixed up.

2162
01:24:09,620 --> 01:24:11,460
Monthly's we got drip.

2163
01:24:11,460 --> 01:24:12,700
Scott $15.

2164
01:24:13,060 --> 01:24:13,380
Thank you, Dre.

2165
01:24:14,440 --> 01:24:16,160
How's the weight loss journey going, man?

2166
01:24:16,180 --> 01:24:17,200
I haven't heard an update.

2167
01:24:17,340 --> 01:24:18,000
I want an update.

2168
01:24:18,860 --> 01:24:19,000
Yeah.

2169
01:24:19,060 --> 01:24:20,100
What's the scale scales.

2170
01:24:20,180 --> 01:24:20,820
What's the scales.

2171
01:24:20,920 --> 01:24:22,060
What's up with the scales, man.

2172
01:24:22,860 --> 01:24:24,400
Chris Bernardik $5.

2173
01:24:24,700 --> 01:24:25,220
Thank you, Chris.

2174
01:24:25,280 --> 01:24:28,160
Michael Kimmerer $5 and 33 cents.

2175
01:24:29,440 --> 01:24:34,440
Oh, RSS.com $777.

2176
01:24:34,440 --> 01:24:42,000
Oh, I've got the angel number lined up

2177
01:24:42,000 --> 01:24:42,440
for us.

2178
01:24:42,480 --> 01:24:43,180
Thank you gentlemen.

2179
01:24:43,340 --> 01:24:44,360
Thank you so much.

2180
01:24:44,620 --> 01:24:44,960
Thank you.

2181
01:24:45,220 --> 01:24:46,140
Really appreciate it.

2182
01:24:46,280 --> 01:24:47,820
You guys, you guys rock.

2183
01:24:47,920 --> 01:24:49,740
All the hosting company guys rock.

2184
01:24:50,160 --> 01:24:51,360
They're always helping us out.

2185
01:24:51,680 --> 01:24:52,080
They know.

2186
01:24:52,500 --> 01:24:54,860
They sent us a message donations and support

2187
01:24:54,860 --> 01:24:55,880
are rolling in.

2188
01:24:55,980 --> 01:24:58,600
Turns out Dave's forest retreats have magical fundraising

2189
01:24:58,600 --> 01:25:00,980
powers, but even when he's not off grid,

2190
01:25:01,060 --> 01:25:02,000
the love keeps coming.

2191
01:25:02,000 --> 01:25:02,700
It's amazing.

2192
01:25:04,280 --> 01:25:04,920
How does that work?

2193
01:25:04,980 --> 01:25:05,800
Get out of town.

2194
01:25:05,920 --> 01:25:06,480
That's great.

2195
01:25:07,900 --> 01:25:10,040
Uh, Kevin Bay $5.

2196
01:25:10,240 --> 01:25:10,800
Thank you, Kevin.

2197
01:25:11,160 --> 01:25:12,900
Uh, Cameron Rose $25.

2198
01:25:13,180 --> 01:25:13,940
Thank you, Cameron.

2199
01:25:14,160 --> 01:25:15,160
Uh, Chad Pharaoh.

2200
01:25:15,580 --> 01:25:16,420
What's up, Chad?

2201
01:25:16,600 --> 01:25:18,540
Chad F $20 22 cents.

2202
01:25:19,220 --> 01:25:21,440
Brendan at pod page 25 bucks.

2203
01:25:21,560 --> 01:25:22,400
Thank you, Brendan.

2204
01:25:23,140 --> 01:25:25,000
Uh, new media $1.

2205
01:25:25,080 --> 01:25:26,860
Martin Lindeskog, Mark Graham $1.

2206
01:25:27,260 --> 01:25:27,960
Oh, look at there.

2207
01:25:28,660 --> 01:25:29,300
Speak of the devil.

2208
01:25:29,320 --> 01:25:30,680
It's Oscar Mary $200.

2209
01:25:32,760 --> 01:25:35,960
Call a 20 inch blaze on the Impala.

2210
01:25:36,500 --> 01:25:38,580
You deliver bugs and we get value in

2211
01:25:38,580 --> 01:25:38,940
return.

2212
01:25:39,080 --> 01:25:39,720
That's awesome.

2213
01:25:39,860 --> 01:25:40,340
Thank you.

2214
01:25:41,000 --> 01:25:41,400
Yeah.

2215
01:25:41,540 --> 01:25:42,500
I give you bugs.

2216
01:25:42,580 --> 01:25:43,120
You give us $200.

2217
01:25:43,240 --> 01:25:43,680
That's right.

2218
01:25:43,820 --> 01:25:44,200
Thank you.

2219
01:25:44,280 --> 01:25:44,940
Thank you, Oscar.

2220
01:25:46,580 --> 01:25:49,140
Um, yeah, my, my dad, uh, was a

2221
01:25:49,140 --> 01:25:51,300
programmer and RS 400, uh, AS 400 programmer

2222
01:25:51,300 --> 01:25:53,880
and he had a, in the, uh, I

2223
01:25:53,880 --> 01:25:54,200
didn't know.

2224
01:25:54,320 --> 01:25:55,660
This is the more, you know, I didn't

2225
01:25:55,660 --> 01:25:56,260
know about this.

2226
01:25:56,280 --> 01:25:57,400
I didn't know he was an AS 400

2227
01:25:57,400 --> 01:25:59,380
guy for a long time.

2228
01:25:59,380 --> 01:26:02,120
He started on the, uh, IBM system 32.

2229
01:26:02,400 --> 01:26:03,140
How about that?

2230
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:04,100
If you remember that?

2231
01:26:04,280 --> 01:26:04,620
Oh yes.

2232
01:26:04,640 --> 01:26:05,450
I have one in the corner.

2233
01:26:06,740 --> 01:26:09,060
Is the system 32 then the, that went

2234
01:26:09,060 --> 01:26:11,280
to system 36 and then that became the

2235
01:26:11,280 --> 01:26:11,780
AS 400.

2236
01:26:12,020 --> 01:26:12,320
Yeah.

2237
01:26:12,860 --> 01:26:15,000
I had an AS 400 at one point.

2238
01:26:15,720 --> 01:26:17,400
You had one in your house?

2239
01:26:17,540 --> 01:26:19,760
No, in my office, uh, when I had

2240
01:26:19,760 --> 01:26:22,460
my company and IBM was our customer, specifically

2241
01:26:22,460 --> 01:26:24,180
the AS 400 division.

2242
01:26:24,740 --> 01:26:26,960
And I think I told you this, they

2243
01:26:26,960 --> 01:26:27,600
gave us that.

2244
01:26:28,580 --> 01:26:29,920
Oh, and they said you had to serve

2245
01:26:29,920 --> 01:26:30,800
it from AS 400?

2246
01:26:31,340 --> 01:26:33,120
You gotta run your web server on the

2247
01:26:33,120 --> 01:26:33,480
AS 400.

2248
01:26:33,660 --> 01:26:34,020
Okay.

2249
01:26:34,500 --> 01:26:34,800
Yeah.

2250
01:26:34,880 --> 01:26:36,180
And they come visit the office.

2251
01:26:36,240 --> 01:26:36,880
Oh, there it is.

2252
01:26:36,980 --> 01:26:38,160
Look at it humming along.

2253
01:26:38,340 --> 01:26:40,080
Meanwhile, in the background, Linux.

2254
01:26:40,200 --> 01:26:41,340
It's all, it's all Apache.

2255
01:26:42,360 --> 01:26:42,760
Apache.

2256
01:26:42,760 --> 01:26:43,160
Exactly.

2257
01:26:43,860 --> 01:26:43,960
Yeah.

2258
01:26:44,260 --> 01:26:46,360
That's, uh, do you remember how big those

2259
01:26:46,360 --> 01:26:47,420
AS 400s would get?

2260
01:26:47,640 --> 01:26:49,480
The ones with the big disk packs?

2261
01:26:49,700 --> 01:26:51,800
Well, mine was about this.

2262
01:26:51,820 --> 01:26:52,560
You could get them, they were gigantic.

2263
01:26:52,560 --> 01:26:54,800
No, the one I had was about the

2264
01:26:54,800 --> 01:26:56,900
size of a filing cabinet, but that was

2265
01:26:56,900 --> 01:26:59,480
kind of the standard model, I think.

2266
01:27:00,160 --> 01:27:02,120
That was mostly disk in there.

2267
01:27:02,320 --> 01:27:02,600
Oh yeah.

2268
01:27:02,700 --> 01:27:03,140
Oh yeah.

2269
01:27:03,180 --> 01:27:03,540
Definitely.

2270
01:27:04,340 --> 01:27:07,360
So the back, the system 32 in the

2271
01:27:07,360 --> 01:27:09,340
old days had, uh, or maybe it was

2272
01:27:09,340 --> 01:27:09,840
the 36.

2273
01:27:10,060 --> 01:27:10,300
I forgot.

2274
01:27:10,420 --> 01:27:11,900
It's the precursor to the, to the AS

2275
01:27:11,900 --> 01:27:14,980
400 had what they called disk packs.

2276
01:27:15,400 --> 01:27:16,260
Did you ever see one of those?

2277
01:27:16,400 --> 01:27:17,180
No, I don't think so.

2278
01:27:17,180 --> 01:27:20,940
So a disk pack looked like a briefcase,

2279
01:27:21,600 --> 01:27:24,420
except imagine that the briefcase is laying down

2280
01:27:24,420 --> 01:27:28,100
flat and the handle is on top.

2281
01:27:28,740 --> 01:27:31,740
And so that was your personal disk pack.

2282
01:27:32,680 --> 01:27:34,780
And you would, and you had a, you

2283
01:27:34,780 --> 01:27:37,660
had a big, uh, a big opening on

2284
01:27:37,660 --> 01:27:39,900
the top and you would come in and

2285
01:27:39,900 --> 01:27:42,900
drop the disk pack down into the slot

2286
01:27:42,900 --> 01:27:46,900
to load anything that was on your, was

2287
01:27:46,900 --> 01:27:48,200
on your personal drive.

2288
01:27:48,880 --> 01:27:52,220
And so, but it didn't have the thing.

2289
01:27:52,260 --> 01:27:54,960
The cool thing about the disk packs is

2290
01:27:54,960 --> 01:27:58,500
that they did not have electric brakes on

2291
01:27:58,500 --> 01:27:59,760
the spin, on the spindles.

2292
01:27:59,900 --> 01:28:02,600
It would take forever to spin down.

2293
01:28:03,180 --> 01:28:05,000
It would gyro as soon as you pulled

2294
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:06,360
it out of the thing, you'd be chasing

2295
01:28:06,360 --> 01:28:06,880
it around.

2296
01:28:06,980 --> 01:28:08,140
Oh, it was spinning around.

2297
01:28:08,140 --> 01:28:11,640
Yeah, for like, it would, it was like

2298
01:28:11,640 --> 01:28:13,020
gyroscoping in your hand.

2299
01:28:13,100 --> 01:28:14,960
You'd be chasing that thing for like, I

2300
01:28:14,960 --> 01:28:15,840
don't know, 30 seconds.

2301
01:28:15,880 --> 01:28:16,560
That's awesome.

2302
01:28:17,120 --> 01:28:19,160
Everybody would pull it out and immediately get,

2303
01:28:19,240 --> 01:28:20,620
they'd get yanked to the side.

2304
01:28:22,640 --> 01:28:24,680
Yeah, boomer moment.

2305
01:28:24,800 --> 01:28:24,900
Yeah.

2306
01:28:25,500 --> 01:28:27,880
Lauren Ball, $24.20. Thank you.

2307
01:28:27,920 --> 01:28:28,700
Appreciate that.

2308
01:28:28,960 --> 01:28:30,840
Basil Phillip, $25.

2309
01:28:31,160 --> 01:28:31,660
Thank you, Basil.

2310
01:28:32,820 --> 01:28:33,280
Podverse.

2311
01:28:33,480 --> 01:28:34,420
Hey, that's Mitch and the boys.

2312
01:28:34,560 --> 01:28:34,780
Yeah.

2313
01:28:35,020 --> 01:28:35,620
50 bucks.

2314
01:28:35,740 --> 01:28:36,180
Wow.

2315
01:28:36,180 --> 01:28:36,640
Thank you.

2316
01:28:36,760 --> 01:28:36,940
Thank you, Podverse.

2317
01:28:37,040 --> 01:28:37,660
Appreciate that.

2318
01:28:39,040 --> 01:28:40,680
And then we got, yeah, we got some

2319
01:28:40,680 --> 01:28:41,080
booster grams.

2320
01:28:41,260 --> 01:28:42,220
Let's see what we got here.

2321
01:28:42,500 --> 01:28:43,640
Let me re-sort.

2322
01:28:43,980 --> 01:28:45,780
Those were the monthlies or those were the

2323
01:28:45,780 --> 01:28:46,300
what else?

2324
01:28:46,500 --> 01:28:48,020
That was monthlies and monthlies, yes.

2325
01:28:48,020 --> 01:28:48,540
Okay, everything.

2326
01:28:48,780 --> 01:28:49,060
Got it.

2327
01:28:49,080 --> 01:28:49,600
This is good.

2328
01:28:49,700 --> 01:28:50,320
Thank you, everybody.

2329
01:28:50,380 --> 01:28:50,840
This is nice.

2330
01:28:52,400 --> 01:28:53,780
Keep those servers humming.

2331
01:28:54,640 --> 01:28:57,300
Bruce the ugly quacking duck, $22.22. He

2332
01:28:57,300 --> 01:28:59,180
said, when the comfort leaves, people are forced

2333
01:28:59,180 --> 01:28:59,900
to make a move.

2334
01:29:00,260 --> 01:29:02,560
However, how people move is the point.

2335
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:03,680
Thanks for the episode.

2336
01:29:04,140 --> 01:29:04,520
73s.

2337
01:29:05,020 --> 01:29:05,400
73s.

2338
01:29:05,400 --> 01:29:06,980
That's key to 5 Alpha Charlie Charlie.

2339
01:29:08,260 --> 01:29:09,880
Very philosophical on this one.

2340
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:13,060
Oh, through fountain.

2341
01:29:13,240 --> 01:29:15,720
This is user 5935256.

2342
01:29:16,280 --> 01:29:18,440
He says, first Bitcoin, or he or she

2343
01:29:18,440 --> 01:29:21,440
says, first Bitcoin donation ever.

2344
01:29:22,040 --> 01:29:23,340
And it has to go to the podcasting

2345
01:29:23,340 --> 01:29:23,980
2.0 team.

2346
01:29:24,100 --> 01:29:25,820
Thanks for opening a whole new world to

2347
01:29:25,820 --> 01:29:25,940
me.

2348
01:29:26,000 --> 01:29:26,800
Go podcasting.

2349
01:29:26,980 --> 01:29:27,720
Oh, awesome.

2350
01:29:27,880 --> 01:29:28,660
How many sets?

2351
01:29:30,060 --> 01:29:31,980
$22.22. Very nice.

2352
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,140
Let me give you a go podcasting for

2353
01:29:34,140 --> 01:29:34,380
you.

2354
01:29:34,380 --> 01:29:36,020
Welcome to the party!

2355
01:29:40,020 --> 01:29:41,500
Cole McCormick, did you read Cole McCormick?

2356
01:29:41,780 --> 01:29:42,840
No, I did not, no.

2357
01:29:43,360 --> 01:29:47,020
Cole McCormick, Satchel of Richards, 1111, through Fountain,

2358
01:29:47,140 --> 01:29:49,660
he says, I was born in 1997.

2359
01:29:50,200 --> 01:29:52,900
I feel like I'm one of...

2360
01:29:54,880 --> 01:29:57,160
That's the boomer of me.

2361
01:29:58,860 --> 01:30:00,060
I was born in...

2362
01:30:00,060 --> 01:30:01,860
I like how I get labeled as a

2363
01:30:01,860 --> 01:30:02,140
boomer.

2364
01:30:02,220 --> 01:30:03,720
Oh no, get used to it.

2365
01:30:03,780 --> 01:30:05,000
There's just no way you can get it

2366
01:30:05,000 --> 01:30:05,100
right.

2367
01:30:05,100 --> 01:30:09,140
Whenever you talk about something that's before the

2368
01:30:09,140 --> 01:30:11,100
iPhone, you're a boomer.

2369
01:30:12,640 --> 01:30:14,680
I'm about as Gen X as you could

2370
01:30:14,680 --> 01:30:15,800
possibly get.

2371
01:30:15,940 --> 01:30:17,060
No, no, no.

2372
01:30:17,240 --> 01:30:17,820
I'm a boomer.

2373
01:30:17,920 --> 01:30:19,040
No, you're a boomer, man.

2374
01:30:19,100 --> 01:30:19,480
You're a boomer.

2375
01:30:19,480 --> 01:30:20,360
You're Gen X too.

2376
01:30:20,460 --> 01:30:21,100
You're not a boomer.

2377
01:30:21,260 --> 01:30:25,480
Well, I'm September 1964, so that I call

2378
01:30:25,480 --> 01:30:26,640
myself a Ben X.

2379
01:30:26,720 --> 01:30:28,040
You're a boomer.

2380
01:30:29,580 --> 01:30:30,540
You're the...

2381
01:30:31,020 --> 01:30:32,300
You're Gen X's hair.

2382
01:30:32,300 --> 01:30:34,260
That was John C.

2383
01:30:34,380 --> 01:30:34,920
DeVore.

2384
01:30:35,380 --> 01:30:35,980
Oh, sorry.

2385
01:30:36,260 --> 01:30:37,320
No, that's not right.

2386
01:30:37,560 --> 01:30:39,020
I thought it was a boomer.

2387
01:30:40,720 --> 01:30:42,440
Another great show.

2388
01:30:42,780 --> 01:30:43,340
Boomers.

2389
01:30:43,500 --> 01:30:44,060
There you go.

2390
01:30:44,820 --> 01:30:45,800
Yeah, yeah.

2391
01:30:45,800 --> 01:30:46,160
Yes.

2392
01:30:47,140 --> 01:30:51,020
I was born in 1997, says Cole McCormick.

2393
01:30:51,300 --> 01:30:53,260
I feel like I'm one of the only

2394
01:30:53,260 --> 01:30:55,080
people my age who even know what an

2395
01:30:55,080 --> 01:30:57,240
RSS feed is and why podcasting is awesome.

2396
01:30:57,540 --> 01:30:59,680
I'll be sure to drill all this opportunity

2397
01:30:59,680 --> 01:31:01,180
to my six-year-old nephew.

2398
01:31:01,560 --> 01:31:03,240
Gen Alpha will be RSS.

2399
01:31:03,920 --> 01:31:04,800
There you go.

2400
01:31:04,940 --> 01:31:05,840
Hey, there you go.

2401
01:31:05,940 --> 01:31:06,340
Very good.

2402
01:31:06,420 --> 01:31:06,980
We need that.

2403
01:31:07,280 --> 01:31:08,460
Get them a style sheet.

2404
01:31:10,360 --> 01:31:11,960
Everybody gets a style sheet.

2405
01:31:12,920 --> 01:31:14,720
You get your birth certificate and a style

2406
01:31:14,720 --> 01:31:15,080
sheet.

2407
01:31:17,840 --> 01:31:20,820
ComicStripBlogger12855 through Fountain, the delimiter.

2408
01:31:21,480 --> 01:31:23,660
He says, Howdy, Dave and Adam.

2409
01:31:24,240 --> 01:31:27,180
Today, I'd like to recommend a plastic fantastic

2410
01:31:27,180 --> 01:31:29,380
podcast called Unrelenting.

2411
01:31:29,820 --> 01:31:32,880
It airs 33 minutes before your Podcasting 2

2412
01:31:32,880 --> 01:31:35,180
.0 podcast on no agenda stream.

2413
01:31:36,000 --> 01:31:39,260
Unrelenting co-hosts are Jean from Austin, Texas

2414
01:31:39,260 --> 01:31:42,220
and Darren from a village near Chicago.

2415
01:31:42,760 --> 01:31:47,920
More infos at www.unrelenting.show www.unrelenting

2416
01:31:47,920 --> 01:31:49,840
.show Last week, their talk about ice cubes

2417
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,000
took my breath away, but they tackle many

2418
01:31:52,000 --> 01:31:56,900
other topics like health, computer hardware, trading, content

2419
01:31:56,900 --> 01:31:59,580
creation, snake feeding, etc.

2420
01:32:00,020 --> 01:32:01,040
Yo, CSB.

2421
01:32:01,400 --> 01:32:05,760
I've seen Jean's snakes.

2422
01:32:07,040 --> 01:32:08,540
He has them in the house.

2423
01:32:09,020 --> 01:32:10,940
He has two humongous snakes.

2424
01:32:12,040 --> 01:32:14,000
He's got a python that I think is

2425
01:32:14,000 --> 01:32:15,140
11 feet long.

2426
01:32:16,960 --> 01:32:17,680
Iso.

2427
01:32:17,960 --> 01:32:18,940
Yes, Iso that.

2428
01:32:19,740 --> 01:32:22,920
It just decides it curls up in the

2429
01:32:22,920 --> 01:32:24,940
bathtub like it wants a bath and then

2430
01:32:24,940 --> 01:32:26,480
he gives it a bath and then it

2431
01:32:26,480 --> 01:32:27,000
goes out.

2432
01:32:27,180 --> 01:32:29,860
That snake sleeps most of the time.

2433
01:32:29,960 --> 01:32:32,060
He's got a smaller one, 5 feet.

2434
01:32:33,380 --> 01:32:35,640
And they just slither around throughout the house.

2435
01:32:37,120 --> 01:32:39,700
And then when we had the snowpocalypse and

2436
01:32:39,700 --> 01:32:40,720
the power went out.

2437
01:32:41,920 --> 01:32:43,800
What did he do with the snakes that

2438
01:32:43,800 --> 01:32:43,900
day?

2439
01:32:43,900 --> 01:32:45,980
Well, the problem is if it's too cold

2440
01:32:45,980 --> 01:32:47,460
for the snake, the snake dies.

2441
01:32:48,220 --> 01:32:50,120
Well, if it's too cold, the snake just

2442
01:32:50,120 --> 01:32:50,740
shrivels up.

2443
01:32:51,060 --> 01:32:51,820
Do you know what he did?

2444
01:32:51,820 --> 01:32:54,580
He actually laid down with the snakes to

2445
01:32:54,580 --> 01:32:56,120
keep them warm for five days.

2446
01:32:58,280 --> 01:33:00,360
Jean, you went too deep.

2447
01:33:00,560 --> 01:33:02,160
With his body heat.

2448
01:33:02,380 --> 01:33:03,540
Now he was very concerned.

2449
01:33:03,820 --> 01:33:04,900
He was like, what am I going to

2450
01:33:04,900 --> 01:33:05,200
do?

2451
01:33:05,640 --> 01:33:07,200
My snakes are going to die if it

2452
01:33:07,200 --> 01:33:08,320
gets 2 degrees colder.

2453
01:33:08,480 --> 01:33:09,860
I said, curl up with them.

2454
01:33:09,960 --> 01:33:10,360
He said, okay.

2455
01:33:12,520 --> 01:33:13,860
Not in the microwave.

2456
01:33:15,320 --> 01:33:17,640
No, no agenda millennial.

2457
01:33:17,760 --> 01:33:18,600
Not in the microwave.

2458
01:33:19,360 --> 01:33:20,400
That'll heat them up.

2459
01:33:20,580 --> 01:33:21,780
That's a great idea.

2460
01:33:22,680 --> 01:33:23,520
Tasty snack.

2461
01:33:25,680 --> 01:33:26,100
Jerky.

2462
01:33:26,280 --> 01:33:27,420
You guys are the worst.

2463
01:33:27,640 --> 01:33:28,260
You're the worst.

2464
01:33:31,100 --> 01:33:31,940
All right.

2465
01:33:32,220 --> 01:33:33,440
Boardroom, thank you very much.

2466
01:33:33,560 --> 01:33:35,540
Dave, do you get to chill a little

2467
01:33:35,540 --> 01:33:36,240
bit this weekend?

2468
01:33:38,380 --> 01:33:39,700
A little bit, yeah.

2469
01:33:39,780 --> 01:33:41,000
There's going to be some work going on,

2470
01:33:41,080 --> 01:33:44,600
but I'm going to try to not think

2471
01:33:44,600 --> 01:33:45,180
about work.

2472
01:33:45,180 --> 01:33:45,540
Okay.

2473
01:33:45,780 --> 01:33:46,640
Well, you deserve it.

2474
01:33:46,640 --> 01:33:47,280
When I'm not there.

2475
01:33:49,160 --> 01:33:49,960
That's exactly right.

2476
01:33:52,040 --> 01:33:53,180
All right, everybody.

2477
01:33:53,340 --> 01:33:54,460
Thank you so much for being here.

2478
01:33:54,540 --> 01:33:56,800
We will be back next Friday with another

2479
01:33:56,800 --> 01:34:15,280
Board Meeting of Podcasting 2.0. You

2480
01:34:15,280 --> 01:34:19,380
have been listening to Podcasting 2.0. Visit

2481
01:34:19,380 --> 01:34:22,580
podcastindex.org for more information.

2482
01:34:23,000 --> 01:34:24,540
Go podcasting!

2483
01:34:25,140 --> 01:34:27,040
We can do all this in JSON.