Episode 166: Country Clever

100:00:00,870 --> 00:00:05,700Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0February 2 2024 Episode 166200:00:05,850 --> 00:00:11,790Country clever. Hello,everybody. Hello transcript AI300:00:11,790 --> 00:00:16,770engine. Can you keep up withmaking the podcast and 2.0? And400:00:16,770 --> 00:00:21,240is the official board meetingsof podcasting? In general, not500:00:21,240 --> 00:00:23,940just the two Oh, all of it.That's right. We are the only600:00:23,940 --> 00:00:27,720boardroom that puts the BS andvalue for value. I'm Adam curry700:00:27,720 --> 00:00:30,300here in the heart of the TexasHill Country. And in Alabama,800:00:30,300 --> 00:00:33,660the man who sniffs out feed spamfaster than a New York rat900:00:33,660 --> 00:00:36,900looking for pizza. Say hello tomy friend on the other end lays1000:00:36,900 --> 00:00:46,380down with the one and only Mr.De Joe. Trying to turn your name1100:00:46,380 --> 00:00:54,060into Dave Joe. Yes, what you didthere. John C. Dvorak. And Dave1200:00:54,060 --> 00:00:57,930Joe. Yeah, exactly. I thoughtthat was the funniest bit of the1300:00:57,930 --> 00:01:01,890very first podcast in 2.0.Transcribed by Apple that they1400:01:01,890 --> 00:01:03,240got your name? Yes. Dave Joe,1500:01:03,600 --> 00:01:04,560Unknown: right out of the gate.1600:01:06,450 --> 00:01:08,010Adam Curry: Honestly, it waspretty hard. I mean, I don't1700:01:08,010 --> 00:01:10,140think many people could havefigured that one out, including1800:01:10,140 --> 00:01:11,490the AI Yeah,1900:01:11,489 --> 00:01:16,529Dave Jones: I mean, when you sayyou know day to day as I would2000:01:17,790 --> 00:01:19,800Adam Curry: I'm just leaving itDave Joe. Hey, Dave. Joe, how2100:01:19,800 --> 00:01:20,880you doing? I'm2200:01:20,880 --> 00:01:21,930Dave Jones: good. How are you?2300:01:22,590 --> 00:01:25,260Adam Curry: I'm Curtis good overhere. Yeah, everything2400:01:25,290 --> 00:01:28,170everything's rockin and rollin.I'm waiting for the for the2500:01:28,170 --> 00:01:31,860Amazon man. I'm very excited. Iordered a remarkable to2600:01:33,180 --> 00:01:38,520Dave Jones: I've seen I've seenlittle video. By the way. I'm2700:01:38,520 --> 00:01:40,500going to be doing this a lotbecause I've been fighting a2800:01:40,500 --> 00:01:41,610cold this week. Now2900:01:41,640 --> 00:01:44,340Adam Curry: is that time of yearagain for you? It's your your3000:01:44,910 --> 00:01:47,160late boys that you're cordiallycalled.3100:01:47,849 --> 00:01:52,109Dave Jones: Yes, yes, it is.That I've seen I've seen little3200:01:52,559 --> 00:01:56,039like blurbs about this thing.What it's what is it like a note3300:01:56,039 --> 00:01:57,359taking device? Yeah, it's3400:01:57,420 --> 00:02:00,690Adam Curry: a buddy of mine.When we went to Dallas. Last3500:02:00,690 --> 00:02:04,350week, my my buddy had it. He'slike, I was supposed to get one3600:02:04,380 --> 00:02:08,520from Guy Kawasaki is hiscompany. He said, Oh, you do my3700:02:08,520 --> 00:02:11,310remarkable people podcast andI'll send you one he never sent3800:02:11,310 --> 00:02:14,850me once. Okay. Okay, it was partof this but so long ago was3900:02:14,850 --> 00:02:18,180probably the remarkable one. Sothat the remarkable to Yeah,4000:02:18,180 --> 00:02:23,460it's like, electronic paper fornote taking and I go through so4100:02:23,460 --> 00:02:28,170many notepads, those littleyellow legal notepads though, I4200:02:28,170 --> 00:02:30,870Dave Jones: fly through 10 ofthose things a month. Yeah. And,4300:02:30,930 --> 00:02:33,000Adam Curry: and, you know, I'malways looking for one and then,4400:02:33,420 --> 00:02:36,360you know, as as it get as thestack, as it gets thinner, it4500:02:36,360 --> 00:02:38,790gets harder to write on and thenyou know, like, it has a time4600:02:38,790 --> 00:02:42,480for a new one. And, yes, and sothe whole thing, it's really4700:02:42,480 --> 00:02:48,870just because every single show,I have a page. And you know, and4800:02:48,870 --> 00:02:52,860I write down ideas, thoughts, Iusually write down, you know,4900:02:52,860 --> 00:02:56,760maybe just something beforehand,show titles, just the general5000:02:56,760 --> 00:02:59,010stuff and thought, well, itwould make sense to have the5100:02:59,010 --> 00:03:02,610gist on some kind of E paper.And I tried it out and I was5200:03:02,610 --> 00:03:04,260pretty impressed. It felt good.5300:03:05,400 --> 00:03:09,660Dave Jones: The joy of a freshlegal pad that's full that5400:03:09,660 --> 00:03:13,020hasn't had any Yeah. You know,like, I mean, it's like, it's5500:03:13,020 --> 00:03:15,990hard to replicate this house.Listen, I don't remember what5600:03:15,990 --> 00:03:18,240this was. I was listening to apodcast one time a long time5700:03:18,240 --> 00:03:24,240ago. And they were saying theyhad a question that was like if5800:03:24,240 --> 00:03:31,260you were if you were fabulouslywealthy like you know, leave the5900:03:31,260 --> 00:03:32,070planet wealthy6000:03:32,820 --> 00:03:35,370Adam Curry: leave your wifewealthy Yes. So leave you as6100:03:35,880 --> 00:03:38,460Dave Jones: if you were thatlevel of fill in the blank6200:03:38,460 --> 00:03:44,760wealthy. And you know, whatwould one completely frivolous6300:03:45,150 --> 00:03:49,110absurd thing you would you woulddo because money was no object.6400:03:49,680 --> 00:03:53,880So and I forgot who this was butthey were like and I agreed6500:03:53,880 --> 00:03:57,120fully with this with what theywith what what He said He said I6600:03:57,120 --> 00:04:00,720would he said the feeling offresh socks that you just bought6700:04:00,720 --> 00:04:03,750from the store. He's like Iwould wear a brand new pair of6800:04:03,750 --> 00:04:08,310socks every single day of mylife. No, you know like an6900:04:08,310 --> 00:04:10,980interesting I feel that I feelthat way about legal pads I7000:04:10,980 --> 00:04:13,380would have I would just neverused the fresh fresh7100:04:13,380 --> 00:04:15,840Adam Curry: legal pad. Wellyeah, it would be something like7200:04:15,840 --> 00:04:18,900that for me because I had a lotof money at one time and I had7300:04:18,960 --> 00:04:23,160helicopters and castles and itdoesn't live up to the hype.7400:04:24,900 --> 00:04:26,880Dave Jones: It really does afresh socks every day is no7500:04:26,880 --> 00:04:27,540shocks every7600:04:27,570 --> 00:04:30,420Adam Curry: no fresh socks everyday is you know might be might7700:04:30,420 --> 00:04:33,810be something that will be goodcompared to all the other things7800:04:33,810 --> 00:04:38,580you can do is absolutely true.Absolutely true. Hey RSS wins7900:04:38,580 --> 00:04:45,660again brother. We want again RSSwins ago call me on the color8000:04:45,660 --> 00:04:46,590and color daddy8100:04:49,980 --> 00:04:55,740Dave Jones: the most is this isthis the okay let me let me let8200:04:55,740 --> 00:04:58,080me explain my my explain8300:04:58,080 --> 00:04:59,970Adam Curry: Morris what thatmeans for people who don't care.8400:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,660Bob with the podcastingindustrial complex, and please8500:05:03,660 --> 00:05:08,790goodness, call her daddy was aSpotify exclusive three years8600:05:08,790 --> 00:05:11,820$60 million rumored because noone really knows these numbers.8700:05:11,850 --> 00:05:15,510Yeah, that's no one really knowsJoe Rogan's actual number. They8800:05:15,510 --> 00:05:18,510just, you know, just became anumber. I personally think it's8900:05:18,510 --> 00:05:23,970higher than the 200 millionpeople always said it was. And9000:05:24,360 --> 00:05:28,530so that deal, I guess, ended itexpired, and she's still on9100:05:28,530 --> 00:05:33,750Spotify, but to the feed isopen, and it's available on all9200:05:33,750 --> 00:05:36,270platforms, including the modernpodcast apps.9300:05:37,500 --> 00:05:40,920Dave Jones: Now, I've got twothoughts about this. Thought one9400:05:40,920 --> 00:05:47,010is, in this case, I've got thisfeeling that, that she's a9500:05:47,010 --> 00:05:50,460blabber. And that peopleactually do know how much this9600:05:50,460 --> 00:05:54,210money was because she seems likethe type of person who doesn't9700:05:54,210 --> 00:05:58,740keep these things to herself.That bet you I bet you that the9800:05:58,740 --> 00:06:01,950rumored amount of this isactually pretty accurate.9900:06:02,130 --> 00:06:05,250Adam Curry: Oh, of the first onepossibly notice. There's no10000:06:05,250 --> 00:06:10,350Rogen. No. Notice, there's norumored amount of this. Alice,10100:06:10,350 --> 00:06:14,700she's open, I think the deal isover. They'll do the acid sales,10200:06:14,730 --> 00:06:18,300you know that maybe maybethere's some minimum. But10300:06:18,300 --> 00:06:21,780notice, there's no yeah, theyremove renew me for 10 million10400:06:21,780 --> 00:06:25,110and and we're gonna be an oldpodcast app. So I'm in agreement10500:06:25,110 --> 00:06:28,770with you there that that thatwould have been part of the part10600:06:28,770 --> 00:06:31,440of the announcement? Was it evenan announcement? Or was it just10700:06:31,470 --> 00:06:32,460it just kind of happened?10800:06:33,360 --> 00:06:36,480Dave Jones: I think was a pressrelease. Okay, all right. So um,10900:06:36,480 --> 00:06:39,630her not from Spotify as much.That's the way it looked to me.11000:06:40,080 --> 00:06:43,170They look like it was from hernew publishing company or11100:06:43,170 --> 00:06:50,430whatever. The the the otherthing is, this is like, this11200:06:50,430 --> 00:06:58,200show in particular has alwaystriggered in me, to my doubt of11300:06:58,830 --> 00:07:01,440Unknown: humanity as humanity.Well,11400:07:01,440 --> 00:07:04,290Dave Jones: yes, yes. But in aroundabout in a very specific11500:07:04,290 --> 00:07:08,910way. That, that we've we'realways told that about how11600:07:08,910 --> 00:07:12,600squeamish advertisers are andthat they never want to be next11700:07:12,600 --> 00:07:16,560to controversial content or thatkind of this is the nastiest11800:07:16,560 --> 00:07:22,500show. I mean, it is just full ofall. I mean, it is just not11900:07:23,610 --> 00:07:25,800Adam Curry: raunchy, have youlistened, are there ads? Are12000:07:25,800 --> 00:07:28,080they pre rolls, they haveanything going on?12100:07:28,589 --> 00:07:31,349Dave Jones: I have not listened.I lit when she first went12200:07:31,349 --> 00:07:34,979exclusive on Spotify. I listenedto it to find out what the hype12300:07:34,979 --> 00:07:38,459was. And I didn't make itthrough. I mean, there's,12400:07:38,489 --> 00:07:42,239there's you have to rate thisshow it like F bombs per minute.12500:07:42,659 --> 00:07:47,219It is just horrible. And so Ididn't I was like, this is12600:07:47,429 --> 00:07:50,309totally not my thing. Right. Ihaven't listened to it in12700:07:50,309 --> 00:07:53,309probably, you know, a yearwhatever. She went exclusive.12800:07:53,309 --> 00:07:53,819Let's let's12900:07:54,210 --> 00:07:56,430Adam Curry: see if they ever preroll on a second. See if they've13000:07:56,430 --> 00:08:04,020pre roll. What is up daddy gang?No pre roll. No,13100:08:04,110 --> 00:08:05,640Dave Jones: that's not a goodsign. No,13200:08:05,700 --> 00:08:07,650Adam Curry: I think the dealjust ended.13300:08:08,850 --> 00:08:10,290Dave Jones: I think it did, too.I think you're right. And you13400:08:10,290 --> 00:08:14,700know, this is also the othersort of big like deal. News this13500:08:14,700 --> 00:08:20,460week was the Smartlist thingmoving from Amazon too serious.13600:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,060For 100 in that deal, did renewfor $100 million. Over three13700:08:24,060 --> 00:08:24,300years.13800:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,900Adam Curry: I believe that andit's three top guys. They got to13900:08:27,900 --> 00:08:31,200each do about 10 million a year.It's a lot of how many episodes14000:08:31,200 --> 00:08:33,510they do a week.14100:08:34,770 --> 00:08:36,150Dave Jones: I don't know. Theyjust they put out a lot of14200:08:36,150 --> 00:08:37,710content. Yeah, yeah. And14300:08:37,709 --> 00:08:39,839Adam Curry: they're, they'rethey're big names makes it14400:08:39,839 --> 00:08:44,279what's it called again? What'sthe show called smartlace is now14500:08:44,309 --> 00:08:46,949is not also available?14600:08:48,120 --> 00:08:51,600Dave Jones: Yes. windowed islike exclusive for the first14700:08:51,690 --> 00:08:53,130week and then runs out Dave.Right. Right.14800:08:53,130 --> 00:08:56,700Adam Curry: Let me see what theydo with nine just seems like14900:08:56,700 --> 00:09:02,430once a week, and now wait, thisone on the second 115. So15000:09:02,430 --> 00:09:05,310they're doing one by one a week.Now,15100:09:05,310 --> 00:09:09,870Dave Jones: I mean, I feel likeI feel like this type of show.15200:09:10,830 --> 00:09:16,560So just because all the big,huge deals dried up doesn't mean15300:09:16,560 --> 00:09:19,770that nobody's worth a lot ofmoney. There are certain shows15400:09:19,770 --> 00:09:22,530that are really worth a lot ofmoney. And this Rogen being one15500:09:22,530 --> 00:09:26,250of them obviously smartlace thatI think that 100 million. I15600:09:26,250 --> 00:09:28,110don't think serious would havepaid it if they knew they15700:09:28,110 --> 00:09:31,590couldn't if they didn't have atrack record of it paying off15800:09:31,620 --> 00:09:34,230Adam Curry: Oh serious paid alot of money for Stern. I mean,15900:09:34,260 --> 00:09:40,170they Yeah, they're deficitfinance. I'm really happy for16000:09:40,170 --> 00:09:43,410Jason Bateman though. I hung outwith him. That means that we16100:09:43,410 --> 00:09:45,300talked about this I hung outwith a couple times back in the16200:09:45,300 --> 00:09:49,440MTV days he was at the bottom ofthe stack. His his sister,16300:09:49,560 --> 00:09:54,420Justine Bateman. She was top ofthe bill. She was I forget what16400:09:54,420 --> 00:09:57,660she was in all kinds of stuffand it was visa so yeah, it was16500:09:57,660 --> 00:10:00,720so bad that people mistakenlycalled him just Didn't Bateman16600:10:00,720 --> 00:10:03,210you know that I was like it waslike he said, people call me16700:10:03,210 --> 00:10:06,030Justin Bateman all the time. Ithink he was doing Teen Wolf16800:10:06,030 --> 00:10:09,810four or something like that itwas. He was really cool. And he16900:10:09,810 --> 00:10:14,220was a super nice guy. I'm like,Oh man, I feel bad for you. It's17000:10:14,220 --> 00:10:16,830just kind of sucks. But this istalent. You know, we learned17100:10:16,830 --> 00:10:21,540that talent Sean Hayes talent.So yeah, I mean, I'm sure that17200:10:21,540 --> 00:10:23,430series can make it worth theirwhile.17300:10:23,970 --> 00:10:27,000Dave Jones: I always judge thesethings based on if I know17400:10:27,000 --> 00:10:32,850anybody who who has ever whoshows awareness of this show, in17500:10:32,940 --> 00:10:39,180that I know people in my spherethat in my friend, group,17600:10:39,810 --> 00:10:42,330Adam Curry: everyone knows aboutthis show. Everybody knows about17700:10:42,330 --> 00:10:42,420it.17800:10:42,810 --> 00:10:44,670Dave Jones: Yeah, so that meansI'm like, Okay, if there's17900:10:44,670 --> 00:10:47,970recognize if you can just walkyou know, if you can just18000:10:48,240 --> 00:10:51,330casually be talking in a groupwith with friends. And this18100:10:51,330 --> 00:10:54,690somebody mentions a particularshow. That means it's big enough18200:10:54,690 --> 00:10:57,720to be justifying the money thatpeople share on the show.18300:10:57,780 --> 00:11:01,080Adam Curry: Yeah, the three bignames so yeah, that makes sense.18400:11:01,470 --> 00:11:03,570I don't know if they're gonnamake the money back. But you18500:11:03,570 --> 00:11:07,410know, they, they do a lot ofhouse ads, advertising for other18600:11:07,410 --> 00:11:09,960podcasts. They're really tryingto do something that18700:11:11,220 --> 00:11:13,680Dave Jones: is breaking newsbreaking breaking news, Radio,18800:11:13,680 --> 00:11:17,340Spotify deal renewal worth up to$250 million podcast will no18900:11:17,340 --> 00:11:21,540longer be exclusive to Spotify.Interesting. Nathan just dropped19000:11:21,540 --> 00:11:23,130in variety link19100:11:23,160 --> 00:11:27,360Adam Curry: right, but who saysis 250 million. Spotify19200:11:27,360 --> 00:11:29,220Dave Jones: is a new multi yearpartnership deal for19300:11:29,220 --> 00:11:30,240controversial values19400:11:30,240 --> 00:11:33,660Adam Curry: just said to beworth said to be worth. And19500:11:33,660 --> 00:11:35,430Dave Jones: didn't you patRogan's poker show will now be19600:11:35,430 --> 00:11:37,710available on other audioplatforms. In addition being19700:11:37,710 --> 00:11:39,930available on Spotify Reagan'sshow will soon be available on19800:11:39,930 --> 00:11:42,480additional services, includingApple podcasts on Apple, Amazon19900:11:42,480 --> 00:11:45,240music, YouTube, blah, blah,blah. Okay, so it's no this is20000:11:45,240 --> 00:11:45,840this move.20100:11:46,050 --> 00:11:48,330Adam Curry: This move comesunder Spotify as revised20200:11:48,330 --> 00:11:51,750strategy to relinquish exclusivestreaming rights in favor of20300:11:51,750 --> 00:11:56,910broader distribution. So thatmeans that they could not make20400:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,210enough money on the ads, if thisis true, that they needed more20500:12:00,210 --> 00:12:04,140distribution, which is goes backto my original point, RSS wins.20600:12:04,890 --> 00:12:10,020Yeah. And I know that buying aspot on Rogen is expensive, a20700:12:10,020 --> 00:12:12,930bit because I know someone whotried to buy a spot. He's like,20800:12:12,930 --> 00:12:16,830No, I don't have a milliondollars. You have to buy, you20900:12:16,830 --> 00:12:20,820know, not just Rogen, you got tobuy a random network. So good.21000:12:20,820 --> 00:12:23,160Well, I'll ping him and I'llcongratulate him on this. And21100:12:23,160 --> 00:12:28,320then maybe you'll have me onagain. Because he never wants to21200:12:28,320 --> 00:12:30,360invite me before his deal wasdone. Because, you know, I'm21300:12:30,360 --> 00:12:33,630going to start probing. Like,what's going on? What's going21400:12:33,630 --> 00:12:36,990on? Joe was going on, Joe, I'mhappy for him. I was I was21500:12:36,990 --> 00:12:40,290concerned. I mean, I was like,hi, hope Spotify has the money.21600:12:40,980 --> 00:12:44,610Dave Jones: Said to be worth upto 250 million. So if if the21700:12:44,670 --> 00:12:47,310list, let's just say that theroom? You know, of course nobody21800:12:47,310 --> 00:12:49,440knows accurate things. Let'sjust say it is let's just say21900:12:49,440 --> 00:12:51,030that they're in the22000:12:51,030 --> 00:12:54,000Unknown: ballpark. But let'swelcome them back to podcasting,22100:12:54,000 --> 00:12:55,170man. Yeah,22200:12:55,170 --> 00:12:59,370Dave Jones: the old one was 200million. The new one is 25022300:12:59,370 --> 00:13:04,560million plus non exclusivity.Right. That tells me a lot,22400:13:04,560 --> 00:13:09,330right? Yeah, yes. Yeah. He'sworth more as a non exclusive22500:13:09,330 --> 00:13:11,910than he is as an exclusive.Yeah. And I think that's22600:13:11,910 --> 00:13:14,010probably why they're doing allthis while their break. Well,22700:13:14,010 --> 00:13:16,860they're not doing these. Becausethere's, you know, there's a lot22800:13:16,860 --> 00:13:21,780of stories about Spotifybringing podcasters in to be22900:13:21,780 --> 00:13:26,340exclusive. And it wrecked theirshow. Oh, yeah. You You went23000:13:26,340 --> 00:13:29,790exclusive. You got you got thisdeal. You went exclusive. The23100:13:29,790 --> 00:13:35,460deal ran out. Then you went backon the all the podcast apps. But23200:13:35,460 --> 00:13:37,560you had lost all yoursubscribers and everybody just23300:13:37,560 --> 00:13:40,800kind of forgotten about yourshow. And so you're you now Yes,23400:13:40,800 --> 00:13:43,230like you're almost starting fromscratch all over again. They23500:13:43,230 --> 00:13:46,320just kind of cut you loose todrift off into the ocean. So23600:13:46,320 --> 00:13:49,890Adam Curry: I wonder if he'll berenewing his Lipson feed if23700:13:49,890 --> 00:13:51,210he'll if he'll pick that upagain.23800:13:52,020 --> 00:13:56,760Dave Jones: Huh. Oh, I don'tknow. That's a good point. Or I23900:13:56,760 --> 00:13:58,080would bet is on megaphone.24000:13:58,140 --> 00:14:00,270Unknown: I would doubt that it'sbecause you would think so.24100:14:00,270 --> 00:14:01,380Yeah, you would. Yeah.24200:14:02,430 --> 00:14:04,110Dave Jones: Welcome back, Joe.Yeah,24300:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,260Adam Curry: indeed. And I'm justlooking like, oh, man, he might24400:14:07,260 --> 00:14:09,540have changed his number. I thinkI've lost contacts.24500:14:10,350 --> 00:14:14,010Dave Jones: Oh, no. He'sghosting you. Yeah,24600:14:14,010 --> 00:14:18,570Adam Curry: he changes his phoneoften. Oh, yeah. Yeah, that he's24700:14:18,570 --> 00:14:22,500like just what he'll do is get anew phone. Usually when a new24800:14:22,530 --> 00:14:24,870iPhone comes out, he'll get anew phone and he puts the other24900:14:24,870 --> 00:14:27,240one aside he says because somany idiots get his number he25000:14:27,240 --> 00:14:31,590says six very crazy which I haveas well except they're all from25100:14:31,590 --> 00:14:34,950China. And they're all chicksthe same chick and I'm Tiffany25200:14:34,950 --> 00:14:35,700Asia.25300:14:36,330 --> 00:14:38,040Dave Jones: Always wanted toalways go into get a tennis25400:14:38,040 --> 00:14:40,110practice with you for somereason I Yeah.25500:14:40,350 --> 00:14:42,870Adam Curry: Tennis practiceshopping. Are you okay? Haven't25600:14:42,870 --> 00:14:50,100heard from you? Anyway, so Ithink that that really shows25700:14:50,100 --> 00:14:54,930that that along with withApple's entrance into the new25800:14:54,930 --> 00:14:57,510into the namespace tag withtranscript I think that really25900:14:57,510 --> 00:15:01,140shows that RSS without anyoneowning without anyone being in26000:15:01,140 --> 00:15:04,020charge of it, once again, itjust keeps on trucking.26100:15:04,770 --> 00:15:09,720Dave Jones: Yeah. And and tellme tell me again how to how RSS26200:15:09,720 --> 00:15:13,710isn't working. No podcasting,audio, you know how podcasting26300:15:13,710 --> 00:15:16,410isn't isn't, you know, payingthe bills, I26400:15:16,410 --> 00:15:19,140Adam Curry: think it was I thinkwas Spurlock who posted that.26500:15:19,140 --> 00:15:22,230And it's true that YouTubebecause they had RSS feeds26600:15:22,230 --> 00:15:27,270YouTube had RSS feeds with alink to the to the video, which26700:15:27,270 --> 00:15:30,000was not as an enclosure oranything. It was just a link. So26800:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,090you could you could actuallyfollow along. You could26900:15:33,090 --> 00:15:38,730subscribe to youtube feeds, andthey removed them. Yeah, that's27000:15:38,730 --> 00:15:41,250all that yeah, surprise,surprise. I know why is because27100:15:41,250 --> 00:15:45,510we were talking about puttingthose into podcast apps. They're27200:15:45,510 --> 00:15:49,260like, Oh, we can't have that. Wehave shut it down. We haven't27300:15:49,260 --> 00:15:54,000even figured out our you know,played status yet. We can't have27400:15:54,000 --> 00:15:56,010those guys jumping ahead. That'sno good.27500:15:57,120 --> 00:16:01,410Dave Jones: But you have the Ithought something I listened to27600:16:01,440 --> 00:16:08,280upon putting these weekly thismorning. And I thought something27700:16:08,280 --> 00:16:10,620that they were talking aboutthose pretty interesting. Was27800:16:10,620 --> 00:16:13,410this a cast blocking YouTubeingestion?27900:16:13,830 --> 00:16:15,810Unknown: Oh, they have? I don'thave to do that.28000:16:16,439 --> 00:16:20,279Dave Jones: I agree totally withme. No. This is basically what28100:16:20,279 --> 00:16:23,999you said back in. You made youmade the point so eloquently28200:16:23,999 --> 00:16:29,009about saying if you you know ifyou play with YouTube, you're28300:16:29,039 --> 00:16:32,309you know, you're the devil'sfriend in your ear set your what28400:16:32,309 --> 00:16:34,469do you say your Satan'ssalesperson?28500:16:36,030 --> 00:16:36,840Adam Curry: Sounds like me?28600:16:39,570 --> 00:16:42,630Dave Jones: In a cast is like,yeah, we're not going to help28700:16:42,630 --> 00:16:46,920Satan. We're gonna, we're gonnago our own way. Because I don't28800:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,400know why in your world, youwould. Right? It's craziness.28900:16:50,400 --> 00:16:55,470You're just giving. If you're ifyour platform is all based on29000:16:55,470 --> 00:16:58,710digital advertising, why wouldyou just hand that off to29100:16:58,710 --> 00:17:02,100somebody else to monetize isgoofy? Yeah.29200:17:02,190 --> 00:17:05,370Adam Curry: Wow. Again, this isthis is just it's par for the29300:17:05,370 --> 00:17:07,860course we've seen it allhappened. I mean, it's29400:17:07,860 --> 00:17:12,360interesting that there's aparallel here, as we're three29500:17:12,360 --> 00:17:23,160years into podcasting, 2.0 ogpodcasting started. And, I mean,29600:17:23,310 --> 00:17:25,860we purposely replicatedsomething I did, which was the29700:17:25,860 --> 00:17:29,340daily source code, which wasmeant for the developers and29800:17:29,400 --> 00:17:33,240really just to give someoneeverybody who was developing an29900:17:33,240 --> 00:17:36,840application, we had no apps orphones back then an application30000:17:37,170 --> 00:17:40,560for Windows or Mac. And thenthere was a, there was some30100:17:40,560 --> 00:17:45,030Linux stuff as well, to givethem a feed with with a new30200:17:45,720 --> 00:17:48,330enclosure every day with a newitem, new enclosure. That was30300:17:48,330 --> 00:17:51,810that was the whole point. Andjust to talk about what was30400:17:51,810 --> 00:17:54,360going on, and my own personalfeedback, so I was kind of30500:17:54,360 --> 00:17:58,860feeding back to the developer.So we replicated that with the30600:17:58,860 --> 00:18:03,300podcast and 2.0 podcast. And itwas about, I want to say it was30700:18:03,300 --> 00:18:09,300about three years in when SteveJobs called me. And that was30800:18:09,330 --> 00:18:11,670that was Apple jumping insaying, hey, we want to do30900:18:11,670 --> 00:18:14,400something with this. And it'sbeen about being Yeah, here's31000:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,160the parallel about three yearsand now Apple says, hey, you31100:18:17,160 --> 00:18:21,240know, and they called in, theygot they got you. Where's that?31200:18:21,240 --> 00:18:26,580I think? It's kind of it'sparallel. I like that. These31300:18:26,580 --> 00:18:29,790things. I don't know. Historydoesn't always repeat. But31400:18:29,790 --> 00:18:31,920rhyming for sure. For sure.31500:18:32,820 --> 00:18:34,620Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah,definitely. It definitely31600:18:34,620 --> 00:18:38,610rhymes. And I think he that'sthe other thing about the RSS31700:18:38,610 --> 00:18:44,220world is that everybody isthere's a there's always with31800:18:44,220 --> 00:18:49,920RSS, because it's open source.There's always a rising tide31900:18:49,920 --> 00:18:56,160lifts all boats mentality. Sure,sure. People want customers for32000:18:56,160 --> 00:19:00,450their app. Yes, that's the I'mnot gonna you know, discount32100:19:00,450 --> 00:19:03,300that you got to it's these someof these apps are businesses.32200:19:03,300 --> 00:19:05,190Some of them aren't. Some ofthese apps are hobbies and32300:19:05,190 --> 00:19:07,950projects. Some of these apps arebusinesses, and they won't32400:19:07,950 --> 00:19:12,180customers, and that's fine. Butthey're really always is. I32500:19:12,180 --> 00:19:15,990mean, that's why podcasting. 2.0really has brought the podcast32600:19:15,990 --> 00:19:18,960hosting companies together morethan they ever were before. They32700:19:18,960 --> 00:19:21,840all knew each other, but theydidn't. They didn't communicate32800:19:21,840 --> 00:19:24,660and participate to the levelthat they do now. I mean,32900:19:24,660 --> 00:19:28,290there's more of a feeling of,you know, we're in this together33000:19:28,410 --> 00:19:32,820type deal. And so I think that,you know, definitely, that's one33100:19:32,820 --> 00:19:36,960thing that that is true aboutopen source in general, but33200:19:36,960 --> 00:19:41,880especially RSS, because when,like when Apple what I saw was33300:19:41,880 --> 00:19:48,210when Apple did this last week.Everybody was happy. I mean, the33400:19:48,210 --> 00:19:50,220app developers and everybody washappy because they're like,33500:19:50,220 --> 00:19:56,160Well, you know, finally we getwe're getting the we do like33600:19:56,160 --> 00:19:59,820what Alex said we feelvalidated. Yes. About the things33700:19:59,820 --> 00:20:02,310that we We're doing because nowyou know they're doing it to the33800:20:02,310 --> 00:20:07,320left, left here in the new mediashow this week. Rob's like well,33900:20:07,320 --> 00:20:11,130maybe this is just a you know,maybe this is just a fluke you34000:20:11,130 --> 00:20:14,400Adam Curry: want he watched Imean, I don't know if Todd's not34100:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,330on I'm sorry. All props to robbut it's the combo you know, you34200:20:18,360 --> 00:20:22,860need the two of them. Otherwise,it's just it's not quite as as34300:20:23,250 --> 00:20:24,870as dangerous and exciting.34400:20:25,470 --> 00:20:28,620Dave Jones: Yeah, I listened.All I heard was the clip that34500:20:28,620 --> 00:20:32,340John's Birla posted, because I'mlike, I saw the YouTube link.34600:20:32,340 --> 00:20:33,690I'm like, now I'm not listeningto that.34700:20:33,720 --> 00:20:37,230Adam Curry: Oh, well, I missedthe clip. What was the clip? It34800:20:37,230 --> 00:20:37,590was34900:20:38,310 --> 00:20:42,300Dave Jones: Rob asking them. Iforgot the whole detail of it.35000:20:42,300 --> 00:20:46,200But it was Rob was talking totheir Phil and co host Tom35100:20:46,200 --> 00:20:50,160Webster. And he said they meanthe was trying to hear I got it35200:20:50,160 --> 00:20:54,390Unknown: here. Let me see. Okay,did see Apple, you know, embrace35300:20:54,420 --> 00:20:59,130the transcription tag. But I andmany in the industry are kind of35400:20:59,130 --> 00:21:03,090like excited about this. Andthinking that this is a, you35500:21:03,090 --> 00:21:07,470know, a crack of opportunity forthe industry to be telling these35600:21:07,470 --> 00:21:11,610big companies, while you're kindof unexcited, you know,35700:21:12,000 --> 00:21:16,020namespace tags that they willembrace going forward. I do35800:21:16,020 --> 00:21:19,980wonder if this is really kind ofan anomaly, because of the35900:21:19,980 --> 00:21:22,800ubiquity and the interest. How36000:21:22,800 --> 00:21:25,140Adam Curry: long does it takebefore he says YouTube and video36100:21:25,170 --> 00:21:31,830like as another 15 seconds or?Because that's, I watched some36200:21:31,830 --> 00:21:34,380of it and like, ah, let's goback to where we are, again,36300:21:34,590 --> 00:21:38,430even the title said it. Thetitle I think literally said,36400:21:38,430 --> 00:21:40,230you know, we talked about the36500:21:41,760 --> 00:21:46,440Dave Jones: what was the title?Like, okay, okay, Rob. So, so,36600:21:46,530 --> 00:21:52,170you know, podcasting 2.0 tags.They're not, I don't think he36700:21:52,170 --> 00:21:54,660said this. But you know, there'sa lot of people, you know,36800:21:54,660 --> 00:21:57,450they're not going to belegitimate until a big company36900:21:57,450 --> 00:22:00,240adopts them. And then when a bigcompany adopts them, oh, it's37000:22:00,240 --> 00:22:02,070just an anomaly. And that'slike,37100:22:03,300 --> 00:22:05,970Adam Curry: exactly, I mean, itwas 10 years. And everyone said,37200:22:05,970 --> 00:22:09,240no, no, no, no. And you'reright, the hosting companies37300:22:09,540 --> 00:22:13,290were apprehensive, or I'd callit an iron. You know, there were37400:22:13,290 --> 00:22:16,020stocks like, well, if Appledoesn't add it, well, how about37500:22:16,020 --> 00:22:22,110we just add 15 apps to the mix?And and that happened? And I37600:22:22,110 --> 00:22:25,470think it's very cool. Now, I'mstill I loved your blog post, by37700:22:25,470 --> 00:22:28,290the way. I thought that wasgreat. Oh, thanks. Yeah. Oh,37800:22:28,290 --> 00:22:31,710yes. substack. I thought thatwas fantastic. Because I'm also37900:22:31,710 --> 00:22:34,410one of the crazy ones, you know,I'd like my modern podcast app.38000:22:34,410 --> 00:22:37,320I like all of those features.It'll be a long time before any38100:22:37,320 --> 00:22:41,460other mainstream app rivals thatand I think our apps will go far38200:22:41,460 --> 00:22:42,210beyond that.38300:22:43,560 --> 00:22:46,620Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, if youif you want, if that's if you38400:22:46,620 --> 00:22:50,430want the crazy listening, fullfeatured listening experience,38500:22:50,460 --> 00:22:56,520if you want, if you want to seewhat podcasting over RSS is, is38600:22:56,550 --> 00:23:01,860actually capable of of Yeah,like in a real full, extreme38700:23:01,860 --> 00:23:06,900way. You want to podcasting 2.0my, like, you want one of these38800:23:06,900 --> 00:23:10,830crazy apps? Yeah, for sure.Yeah, because you're not, that's38900:23:10,830 --> 00:23:14,640not what Apple is. So like, theiPhone used to be the crazy39000:23:14,640 --> 00:23:19,080phone, ever, and the BlackBerrywas the safe business phone.39100:23:20,250 --> 00:23:23,250Didn't have any weird features.You're right. You know, and,39200:23:23,340 --> 00:23:27,330and, but then they slowlyswitched. And so now, the way it39300:23:27,330 --> 00:23:30,900is, is the iPhone, as you get asyou become mature and get a huge39400:23:30,900 --> 00:23:35,550market share, you become the thestable one, and you become the39500:23:35,550 --> 00:23:39,270one that can do crazy things.And so that's what the iPhone39600:23:39,270 --> 00:23:43,410became over these years is, andin Apple apps, they need to be39700:23:44,400 --> 00:23:46,200and they're going to be slow toadd features. And they're going39800:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,160to be very stable and, andpredictable. Because they have39900:23:50,490 --> 00:23:53,520because they have, you know, 2billion users or you know,40000:23:53,520 --> 00:23:58,140whatever the number is, but sothey're not going to ever be the40100:23:58,140 --> 00:24:02,550bleeding edge of feature featureset. And that's what I want. So,40200:24:02,880 --> 00:24:07,290you know, I'm not I'm not gonnaswitch but but that's okay.40300:24:07,320 --> 00:24:12,360Like, they will add more. Justlike I think, I don't think40400:24:12,360 --> 00:24:15,210Spotify cares because I don'tthink that podcasting. I don't40500:24:15,210 --> 00:24:16,680think they care much aboutpodcasting.40600:24:19,200 --> 00:24:21,330Adam Curry: No, they care aboutkeeping the lights on is what40700:24:21,330 --> 00:24:22,170they care about.40800:24:22,860 --> 00:24:25,980Dave Jones: Exactly the becauseyou see, reading all these40900:24:25,980 --> 00:24:29,160articles about those theUniversal Music tick tock thing.41000:24:30,000 --> 00:24:32,040Yeah, happened this week. Yeah,41100:24:32,070 --> 00:24:34,380Adam Curry: that was that wasquite interesting. It41200:24:34,380 --> 00:24:38,280Dave Jones: tells you, you seewhere, you know, Spotify.41300:24:38,730 --> 00:24:43,710Spotify is a player in thatwhole system. And because they41400:24:43,710 --> 00:24:46,770were paying Spotify is reallyjust a sticker on top of the41500:24:46,770 --> 00:24:52,920music industry. And so the,there's no win win. You're those41600:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,580guys. They don't care aboutstuff like this. It's just It's41700:24:56,580 --> 00:25:01,440purely a money play. It's justpure luck. And the thing about41800:25:01,440 --> 00:25:05,670the Apple podcast team is Applepodcasts has never made any41900:25:05,670 --> 00:25:10,230money for Apple. It's it's anidealistic part of the company.42000:25:10,980 --> 00:25:14,820There, they never have made anymoney or very little or they'll42100:25:15,330 --> 00:25:18,690maybe they break even who knows,but it's not a profit center. It42200:25:18,690 --> 00:25:25,410never has been. It's it's moreof a of a throwback to just old42300:25:25,410 --> 00:25:30,150Apple where they had these werethey had some parts of the42400:25:30,150 --> 00:25:34,320company that were idealistic.And I think that still exists in42500:25:34,320 --> 00:25:37,920the podcast team. But that's notSpotify, Spotify, if they don't42600:25:37,920 --> 00:25:42,750get if they don't get money, ifthey don't get, you know $10042700:25:42,750 --> 00:25:45,870million in profit immediately,they do not care about you.42800:25:46,740 --> 00:25:51,450Adam Curry: The I'd like to ticktock Universal Music standoff42900:25:51,450 --> 00:25:56,820because it really is a standoffwhere I would say from my43000:25:56,820 --> 00:26:00,150analysis and from what I knowtick tock breaks music you know,43100:26:00,150 --> 00:26:04,800tick tock is, is where music newmusic is introduced is where43200:26:04,800 --> 00:26:09,930music goes viral. The term isit's also heated. This is a big43300:26:09,930 --> 00:26:14,250term all the kids are usingDave. I like it well in heated43400:26:14,250 --> 00:26:17,910heated Oh, yeah, that's like,that's the algo so they they43500:26:17,940 --> 00:26:20,730they crank up the algo onsomething by heating. Oh, it43600:26:20,730 --> 00:26:23,130turns out, they got Yep, turn upthe heat got the heat button.43700:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,970Yeah, yeah, that's what theycalled the kids called heating.43800:26:27,000 --> 00:26:29,550Oh, they're heating thosevideos. How can I ever when43900:26:30,930 --> 00:26:32,640Unknown: you can't that's thewhole point.44000:26:35,160 --> 00:26:37,170Adam Curry: And so they're like,Hey, we're breaking these44100:26:37,170 --> 00:26:41,970records for you. We don't wantto pay as much in the music44200:26:41,970 --> 00:26:45,360industry. Like you're you'rescrewing the artists man. Like44300:26:45,390 --> 00:26:46,260okay.44400:26:47,970 --> 00:26:48,930Dave Jones: Sure. Okay. I44500:26:49,680 --> 00:26:52,560Adam Curry: thought I did have aclip of that. Let me say that I44600:26:52,560 --> 00:26:53,070have a clip.44700:26:53,970 --> 00:26:56,040Dave Jones: I'm not sure thisclip44800:26:56,040 --> 00:26:59,310Adam Curry: I have a clip.unplayed clip, a lot of popular44900:26:59,310 --> 00:27:02,370Unknown: music could be about tovanish from Tik Tok Universal45000:27:02,370 --> 00:27:05,280Music Group holds the rights toartists including Taylor Swift,45100:27:05,280 --> 00:27:08,700bad bunny, Drake and manyothers. It says a licensing deal45200:27:08,700 --> 00:27:12,450with tick tock has expired, andit will no longer allow its45300:27:12,450 --> 00:27:15,240artists music to be featured onthe social media platform.45400:27:15,450 --> 00:27:19,110Universal Music says tick tockis proposing to pay a fraction45500:27:19,110 --> 00:27:22,200of what other social platformspay tick tock claims the45600:27:22,200 --> 00:27:25,800decision is being fueled bycorporate greed. Music will45700:27:25,800 --> 00:27:30,000disappear by the end of the dayif a deal is not raised. Oh,45800:27:30,030 --> 00:27:32,100Adam Curry: it's corporategreed. Go figure.45900:27:32,700 --> 00:27:39,270Dave Jones: You're so greedy.Please I think it's hilarious46000:27:39,270 --> 00:27:43,080though. Just I don't I don'tever I've never been on tick46100:27:43,080 --> 00:27:47,100tock only tick tock things sohere's what my kids and me46200:27:47,100 --> 00:27:51,270through text messages. In theend it opens like in the browser46300:27:51,270 --> 00:27:55,410or whatever. But But I do thinkit's hilarious to all of a46400:27:55,410 --> 00:27:59,910sudden see like, some persondancing and there's no music46500:28:02,220 --> 00:28:04,890Adam Curry: but I know a lotabout this from the Costello46600:28:04,890 --> 00:28:08,550family who I've been talking toa lot ever since they came on46700:28:08,550 --> 00:28:13,830the scene. And you know, thefirst question even a lawyer46800:28:13,830 --> 00:28:16,260before lawyer will even becauseyou know it's all lawyers right?46900:28:16,290 --> 00:28:19,110You don't just go to a label nowyou got to get a lawyer your47000:28:19,110 --> 00:28:22,800lawyer talks to their lawyerit's all lawyer stuff. The first47100:28:22,800 --> 00:28:24,870thing he said well how are yoursocials? What do you have on47200:28:24,870 --> 00:28:28,620tick tock? You have to have Xamount on tick tock, every movie47300:28:28,770 --> 00:28:32,370every movie star even big starsis put into their into their47400:28:32,370 --> 00:28:35,940contract you have to have ticktock you will post on tick tock.47500:28:36,180 --> 00:28:40,650I think Tiktok has the upperhand here. I really I really do.47600:28:41,370 --> 00:28:43,290Dave Jones: I don't know I feelthe other way. I feel like I47700:28:43,290 --> 00:28:45,690feel like the music labels havethe upper hand because I don't47800:28:45,690 --> 00:28:48,570feel that I feel like tick tockis nothing without without the47900:28:48,570 --> 00:28:52,350music. It's nothing I mean, liketheir business depends on the48000:28:52,350 --> 00:28:57,270music labels. But at least themusic labels have a mute they48100:28:57,270 --> 00:29:00,150have music I mean like thatpeople are gonna continue to48200:29:00,150 --> 00:29:05,520listen to music, but people willjust get like tick tock is48300:29:05,520 --> 00:29:09,870worthless without the music. Imean, you can just see because48400:29:09,930 --> 00:29:13,440the only other thing on ticktock that's of any that he gets48500:29:13,440 --> 00:29:19,080any play are sketches fromstolen from stand up comedy48600:29:19,080 --> 00:29:23,490routines with a bunch ofoverlays put on it to try to48700:29:23,490 --> 00:29:25,860fool the algorithm into thinkingis not real. I48800:29:25,860 --> 00:29:28,290Adam Curry: see I disagree.That's your scroll hole. I mean,48900:29:28,320 --> 00:29:33,390you get into the like that term.I pick it all from the scroll49000:29:33,390 --> 00:29:42,420holy. I'm glad you like that.No, I mean so I see Tina and of49100:29:42,420 --> 00:29:46,950course I have women on Tik Tokand, and what comes by for her49200:29:46,950 --> 00:29:50,520is these videos of people who dovoiceovers for the animals.49300:29:51,870 --> 00:29:55,320Mainly with dogs. This is oneguy was really good at us. You49400:29:55,320 --> 00:29:58,740know, there's a lot of there's alot of that there's a lot that I49500:29:58,740 --> 00:30:03,090mean even if He likes a lot ofJesus stuff. Once you get into49600:30:03,090 --> 00:30:07,650the Jesus hole, whoa, that's allyou get there. algos are very49700:30:07,890 --> 00:30:12,630unifying. And they just give youall that stuff. So if you're49800:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,650into dance dance videos, lots ofmusic. Yeah, you're gonna get49900:30:16,650 --> 00:30:19,170and I'm sure it may be themajority, I don't know. But50000:30:19,170 --> 00:30:23,070there's a lot more on tick tock.It's just whatever, whatever you50100:30:23,130 --> 00:30:25,320whatever you start to feed, thealgorithm responds pretty50200:30:25,320 --> 00:30:25,800quickly.50300:30:27,390 --> 00:30:29,340Dave Jones: You're starting tochange the history and to change50400:30:29,340 --> 00:30:30,510my mind. Sorry,50500:30:30,600 --> 00:30:33,990Adam Curry: I'm saying it well.So let's just move beyond that50600:30:33,990 --> 00:30:40,650for a moment. Because we arezigging to their zag. The value50700:30:40,650 --> 00:30:44,790from the value versus the valuefor value music is, is getting50800:30:44,790 --> 00:30:49,680pretty official. There's there'ssome licensing that's been50900:30:49,680 --> 00:30:55,950that's, that's in a very farreaching us. What is the word51000:30:55,950 --> 00:30:59,640I'm looking for? It's it statusis very close to being to being51100:30:59,640 --> 00:31:01,200usable, that51200:31:01,200 --> 00:31:03,240Dave Jones: I need you toexplain this to me, because of51300:31:03,270 --> 00:31:06,420the collectively there's been150,000 words of emails that51400:31:06,420 --> 00:31:08,520have flown by me and have notread any of them.51500:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,290Adam Curry: So I've kind of Ikind of threw a wrench into it51600:31:13,290 --> 00:31:16,680all. Because there was a lotabout music, music, music, music51700:31:16,680 --> 00:31:22,260music. And I said, Why are youconfusing yourself with music?51800:31:22,890 --> 00:31:28,230Say you have an RSS feed? Yes.There's an mp3 file in in an51900:31:28,230 --> 00:31:32,460item that is in an enclosure?Yes. Okay. How is that different52000:31:32,460 --> 00:31:37,800from a podcast? Well, it'smusic. So it's, it's a podcast,52100:31:38,220 --> 00:31:42,210you have a podcast that has veryshort episodes. If once you52200:31:42,210 --> 00:31:46,680start to put that into yourbrain, and and remove all of the52300:31:46,710 --> 00:31:51,840old school licensing that we'veall been accustomed to, and you52400:31:51,840 --> 00:31:55,470talk to any lawyer, the minuteyou say, oh, it's musical, oh,52500:31:55,950 --> 00:31:59,940this has to happen every day.Oh, this is how we do this? No,52600:32:00,420 --> 00:32:05,250no. And so there's really two,there's three, three pieces. One52700:32:05,250 --> 00:32:10,260is you need new agreements withthe people who worked on a song.52800:32:11,910 --> 00:32:17,280And you still have some oldschool. Traditional names for52900:32:17,280 --> 00:32:23,100those. So writer, composer,producer, the person who owns53000:32:23,100 --> 00:32:27,810the master, who may or may notwho might have put up the money,53100:32:28,020 --> 00:32:30,480you know, there's there'scertain things that are just53200:32:30,480 --> 00:32:34,620there. But all of the otherorganizations, these black boxes53300:32:34,620 --> 00:32:37,710that collect money on behalf ofartists and take care of you,53400:32:38,190 --> 00:32:42,810including publishing companies.There's the worldwide publishing53500:32:43,080 --> 00:32:47,820industrial complex is veryinteresting. Once you put that53600:32:47,820 --> 00:32:51,450out of your mind, and say,there's really only two things53700:32:51,450 --> 00:32:55,260we have to look at, that's thethat's the agreement of the53800:32:55,260 --> 00:32:58,260people who work on the podcast,I'm just gonna call it a podcast53900:32:58,260 --> 00:33:01,710just to make it very simple. SoX amount of people work on the54000:33:01,710 --> 00:33:07,200podcast, you have splits thatare developed. And in the case54100:33:07,200 --> 00:33:13,650of this kind of podcast, one ormore people may get more of the54200:33:13,650 --> 00:33:17,490split up front, which then hasto switch after certain amount54300:33:17,520 --> 00:33:21,540has been achieved. That's calledthe recoupment. That could work54400:33:21,540 --> 00:33:24,690perfectly for a podcast, hey, Iput up a two grand for the54500:33:24,690 --> 00:33:26,910studio, I get the first twogrand out.54600:33:27,510 --> 00:33:30,090Dave Jones: No, okay, this is aninteresting, okay, that's good.54700:33:30,480 --> 00:33:31,320That's very, very54800:33:31,320 --> 00:33:36,360Adam Curry: understandable. Thenthe next part is value for value54900:33:36,390 --> 00:33:44,880on apps, and value for value asa remote item. Now, the value55000:33:44,880 --> 00:33:51,570for value on apps. I had I had,I mean, a lot of a lot of55100:33:51,570 --> 00:33:55,800attitude changing that Iattempted to do. I said, No one,55200:33:55,860 --> 00:33:59,580no one is putting anything weirdinto the concept of putting a55300:33:59,580 --> 00:34:03,090podcast up and say, Hey, can youjust send me send me some, and55400:34:03,090 --> 00:34:07,650then, you know, the apptypically take something. And55500:34:07,650 --> 00:34:12,600that is very transparent to theuser. So in my mind, that's kind55600:34:12,600 --> 00:34:16,860of soft. You know, and ifthere's an app out there, that55700:34:16,860 --> 00:34:22,950all sudden was taking 50% Ithink the community itself would55800:34:22,950 --> 00:34:24,360say, Hey, what are you doing?55900:34:24,390 --> 00:34:27,120Unknown: I mean, that it wouldbe recognized fast. Yeah, it56000:34:27,120 --> 00:34:27,900would be recognized56100:34:27,900 --> 00:34:31,620Adam Curry: very quickly.There's also a piece that people56200:34:31,620 --> 00:34:35,940have to recognize that it's notall the pieces will never add up56300:34:35,940 --> 00:34:41,760to 100. There's network fees,you know, some case of routing56400:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,780goes differently, you lose thesad here or there. You know, we56500:34:45,780 --> 00:34:50,820all have to just recognize andrealize that it's not 100%56600:34:50,820 --> 00:34:56,550accountable the way it is withfiat money systems. It's not a56700:34:56,550 --> 00:34:59,100big deal. But when you'redealing with five SATs at a56800:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,740time, it's like hey, Where did20% go? Because I lost a56900:35:01,740 --> 00:35:06,270Satoshi. So that that has to befigured out, or just has to be57000:35:06,300 --> 00:35:08,550realized. And honestly,57100:35:08,550 --> 00:35:13,470Dave Jones: that's not all thatdifferent than, then things go57200:35:13,470 --> 00:35:17,190in the business world anyway,because you get a contract.57300:35:17,220 --> 00:35:19,770Yeah, you sign a contract withsomebody and you're like, Okay,57400:35:19,800 --> 00:35:23,610I'm gonna start using yourproduct, and then the invoices57500:35:23,610 --> 00:35:26,970come through, and there's a lot,there's 26 line items with all57600:35:26,970 --> 00:35:29,250these different little, youknow, fees and57700:35:29,580 --> 00:35:36,990telecommunications, you know,fee or Obama phone fee. There's,57800:35:37,050 --> 00:35:39,420there's all these things andyou're like, Oh, what is all57900:35:39,420 --> 00:35:41,460this, then you have to talk toyour account rep and figure out58000:35:41,460 --> 00:35:45,270what all this stuff is. And it'slike, it's never it's never a58100:35:45,270 --> 00:35:48,480clean is what I'm saying.Measuring This is not just, it's58200:35:48,480 --> 00:35:52,410not just a, you know, V four vthing. And beyond58300:35:52,410 --> 00:35:56,340Adam Curry: that, there's sendbacks, buy backs, whatever they58400:35:56,340 --> 00:36:00,600call them, you know, the, themusic, I use, when buying with58500:36:00,600 --> 00:36:02,850buying music, this is alreadykind of going out of vogue. And58600:36:02,850 --> 00:36:06,600when buying music, or if yourmusic is available somewhere and58700:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,440someone buys you know, 100 CDs,they may send back 50 Hey, I58800:36:10,440 --> 00:36:12,750didn't buy him, you have to buyhim back. There's all kinds of58900:36:12,750 --> 00:36:14,910stuff like that. That's, that'sthe same. By the way, if you use59000:36:14,910 --> 00:36:19,170Amazon, if you sell products inAmazon, there'll be people send59100:36:19,170 --> 00:36:22,080stuff back, you know, so there'sall kinds of shenanigans, you're59200:36:22,080 --> 00:36:25,890losing money everywhere. Yeah,now, the most important part to59300:36:25,890 --> 00:36:32,970me, was reinventing Music Radio,by using the remote item tag,59400:36:33,030 --> 00:36:38,280and I was very sharp, sharplyfocused on calling it a remote59500:36:38,280 --> 00:36:43,170item and not a song. Because theit technically is a remote item,59600:36:43,380 --> 00:36:48,780it could be a clip from someoneelse's podcast, it can be a, an59700:36:48,780 --> 00:36:52,020insert of an entire episode ofsomeone else's podcast, that59800:36:52,020 --> 00:36:55,830podcast happens to be threeminute and 45 seconds long. But59900:36:55,830 --> 00:36:59,670I'm inserting it now. That'swhere I think is very valid, to60000:36:59,670 --> 00:37:04,080have an ownership license thatsays, hey, if you're going to60100:37:04,080 --> 00:37:08,460include this, in your podcast ismy stuff. So you're making what60200:37:08,460 --> 00:37:11,040I call a derivative work, likeyou're copying it, you're60300:37:11,040 --> 00:37:15,510playing a piece in your podcasthere is so first of all, you60400:37:15,510 --> 00:37:19,320have to respect my splits, whichis how the remote item works.60500:37:19,950 --> 00:37:26,070And second of all, I want aminimum amount of your overall60600:37:26,070 --> 00:37:31,200split. I think that's very fair.And it's an it's an it's, it's60700:37:31,200 --> 00:37:34,380an extra tag, we an extraparameter we would need in the60800:37:34,380 --> 00:37:38,700value block, or the remote,whatever the whatever the spec60900:37:38,700 --> 00:37:41,940is, like, if you want to usethis value for value in your61000:37:41,940 --> 00:37:47,280podcast, then you have to giveme at least 50% of your split.61100:37:47,580 --> 00:37:48,510And so61200:37:48,540 --> 00:37:51,210Dave Jones: let me let me playit back to you. So I can see if61300:37:51,210 --> 00:37:53,490I understand if I'munderstanding this correctly.61400:37:53,820 --> 00:37:57,690Some so the there would be alicense this Yeah, this license61500:37:57,690 --> 00:38:04,650would say, Hey, here's what hereI'm making my main my, let's say61600:38:04,650 --> 00:38:09,270music and making music availablevalue for value. If you're going61700:38:09,270 --> 00:38:11,700to use my music in your show,just61800:38:11,700 --> 00:38:14,130Adam Curry: say just say mycontent, don't even say music, I61900:38:14,130 --> 00:38:14,970say content,62000:38:16,470 --> 00:38:18,270Dave Jones: I'm going to make mycontent v v, if you're going to62100:38:18,270 --> 00:38:26,160use my content in the show as aremote item, then I then the62200:38:26,160 --> 00:38:28,590remote percentage needs to be atleast62300:38:29,370 --> 00:38:31,530Adam Curry: a minimum, aminimum, you may give me more,62400:38:31,830 --> 00:38:35,040you might give me more, but Ineed a minimum, I would set mine62500:38:35,040 --> 00:38:39,660at 50%. And so we just played alittle bit of the new media62600:38:39,660 --> 00:38:42,780show, if that was actuallyavailable as an audio episode,62700:38:42,780 --> 00:38:45,990which it may be, I will go backand I will put the value time62800:38:45,990 --> 00:38:51,030split in there for the amount oftime that we played that with62900:38:51,150 --> 00:38:56,130and I would I would just give100% of the split. I think that63000:38:56,160 --> 00:39:01,410that license for me feels okayin the value for value model63100:39:01,410 --> 00:39:04,020because you're not saying I needthis amount of money. We're just63200:39:04,020 --> 00:39:07,860saying please respect my splitsfirst of all, so that means63300:39:07,860 --> 00:39:11,490you're using the remote itemtag. And here's a minimum that I63400:39:11,490 --> 00:39:16,050want that you could say there'sno minimum you could say I have63500:39:16,050 --> 00:39:20,550to have the 90% whatever itwhatever it is. And it's all63600:39:20,580 --> 00:39:23,640it's all ultimately based on thehonor system but you know, you63700:39:23,640 --> 00:39:27,930could technically go back andtake a look at it. But I think63800:39:27,930 --> 00:39:30,960that for using someone's contentunless you have a different63900:39:30,960 --> 00:39:36,030license in there which would becreative commons you know, share64000:39:36,030 --> 00:39:38,550like what you know there's alldifferent licenses this would be64100:39:38,550 --> 00:39:43,620a V for V license for using itas a remote item in your podcast64200:39:45,000 --> 00:39:47,790and would work for any remoteitem.64300:39:48,780 --> 00:39:51,450Dave Jones: For first of all,respect to Swiss is great t64400:39:51,450 --> 00:40:01,740shirt. Seven ball. This isreally good timing because A guy64500:40:01,800 --> 00:40:06,030who's participate, there's a guythat popped up in sent an email64600:40:06,930 --> 00:40:10,860the other day, and he works,he's working somehow, I wasn't64700:40:10,860 --> 00:40:14,640fully clear on this, but he'sworking somehow with the with64800:40:14,640 --> 00:40:18,180bell, Benjamin Bell, and evencast pod develop open source64900:40:18,390 --> 00:40:26,310group. And he's trying to narrowdown the big list of open source65000:40:26,310 --> 00:40:30,930licenses that we linked to inthe get in the namespace to be65100:40:30,930 --> 00:40:34,560just a basically a small subsetof licenses that are applicable65200:40:34,560 --> 00:40:39,630to podcast, content, podcastdelivered content. So you know,65300:40:39,630 --> 00:40:41,550of course, it'd be creativecommons and that kind of thing.65400:40:42,120 --> 00:40:46,800And the witch, and I told him, Iwas like, you know, fantastic,65500:40:46,800 --> 00:40:50,820this is great, please do this.Because, you know, the, the65600:40:50,820 --> 00:40:56,220reason we, we came up with thelicense tag, and then we added65700:40:56,310 --> 00:41:00,510the link to the possible values,the license of sizes tag can65800:41:00,510 --> 00:41:04,410have, of course, can be a customlicense, that's fine. But the65900:41:04,440 --> 00:41:09,720list we linked to was just thiscommon list of open source is a66000:41:09,720 --> 00:41:13,110curated common source, opensource list of licenses, right?66100:41:13,290 --> 00:41:17,850But, but that's just becausewe're not I know, I'm not, we're66200:41:17,850 --> 00:41:20,610developers, not legal experts.So we don't, we're not knowing66300:41:20,610 --> 00:41:24,930what this is. So if we can do ifwe, if we actually can boil this66400:41:24,930 --> 00:41:28,650down to just a few differentlicense types, one of which is a66500:41:28,770 --> 00:41:34,110is a value for value licensed,that works really well for, for66600:41:34,110 --> 00:41:38,520people who want to go into V forV. I think that is like the66700:41:38,520 --> 00:41:40,200timing can't be better. So66800:41:40,200 --> 00:41:42,960Adam Curry: it's that part?It's, it's, and for me, it's66900:41:43,110 --> 00:41:48,240basically like we do it alreadyin the license tag. Is that at67000:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,370the channel level? Or is it alsoat the item level?67100:41:51,360 --> 00:41:54,600Dave Jones: I think that's atthe channel, let's look it up,67200:41:54,630 --> 00:41:56,880let's do it was popping in thenamespace here,67300:41:57,570 --> 00:41:59,340Adam Curry: in salt, the book ofknowledge pop into the67400:41:59,340 --> 00:42:03,360namespace, it would have to beat the while you're looking that67500:42:03,360 --> 00:42:06,780up, it would have to be at theitem level. And then as part of67600:42:06,780 --> 00:42:14,070the remote item tag, I would saywe need a minimum, a field for67700:42:14,070 --> 00:42:18,900minimum so that the author theowner can say it's either none67800:42:18,930 --> 00:42:23,070or let's say it's by D, if it'snot filled in, it's none.67900:42:23,070 --> 00:42:27,240There's no no, no minimum.Optional, you can put in a68000:42:27,240 --> 00:42:31,650minimum split, that needs to berespected by the person68100:42:31,650 --> 00:42:36,900including it, and then the toolscan start just respecting that.68200:42:36,900 --> 00:42:43,140So if I'm in the split kit, andI grab a remote item, regardless68300:42:43,140 --> 00:42:48,150of whether it's five minutes or50 minutes, it could68400:42:48,180 --> 00:42:50,550automatically fill in, here'sthe minimum, do you want to make68500:42:50,550 --> 00:42:57,570it more? You know, so we'd needan extra an extra option under68600:42:57,690 --> 00:42:59,100the remote item tag.68700:43:00,090 --> 00:43:06,000Dave Jones: So that so that'sdifferent. So we can't, we can't68800:43:06,000 --> 00:43:10,740really repurpose the suggestedattribute. This would need to be68900:43:10,740 --> 00:43:11,400something new.69000:43:11,640 --> 00:43:15,390Unknown: Yeah. Well, you can'tadd something to it. No, we can.69100:43:16,530 --> 00:43:19,980Adam Curry: The suggested issuggested I don't think is69200:43:19,980 --> 00:43:27,720different. The suggested tag isfor podcast apps, and then the69300:43:27,720 --> 00:43:33,390apps, which for some reason isfive. Somehow it's five Apple69400:43:33,390 --> 00:43:37,920code who came up with who cameup with five. Now this would be69500:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,840specifically for the remoteitem. No, I didn't I don't know.69600:43:43,050 --> 00:43:45,960Does that mean, you willprobably have to have a new tag,69700:43:46,530 --> 00:43:49,890which will be like remote itemminimum or whatever.69800:43:52,350 --> 00:43:53,280Unknown: Does that make sense?69900:43:54,720 --> 00:43:57,060Adam Curry: So this is this,this? This is why there's two of70000:43:57,060 --> 00:44:01,170us because I got the high levelyou got to help me figure out70100:44:01,170 --> 00:44:01,890where we put it.70200:44:05,220 --> 00:44:07,140Unknown: Yeah, okay. mumblingOff mic now.70300:44:08,370 --> 00:44:10,650Dave Jones: I'm Dick. I'm notingnoting over here.70400:44:10,650 --> 00:44:13,770Adam Curry: Nobody's noticing.Yes. On your yellow legal pad.70500:44:14,700 --> 00:44:15,480Yes, yeah.70600:44:17,340 --> 00:44:22,290Dave Jones: Okay, yeah, the thelicense tag is at Channel or the70700:44:22,290 --> 00:44:25,230item level. So we're good. We'regood to go with that already. No70800:44:25,230 --> 00:44:29,670changes necessary. Cool. Cool.Cool. Cool. And you can have the70900:44:29,670 --> 00:44:34,170way the license tag works as youcan just bet you can specify a a71000:44:34,170 --> 00:44:37,320lit a lesson. I'm sorry. We71100:44:37,320 --> 00:44:39,690Adam Curry: have a point oforder from the boardroom. Mike71200:44:39,690 --> 00:44:42,630Newman has a point of personalpreference. He says we're deep71300:44:42,630 --> 00:44:47,370into the namespace talk. Why noheating? Yes. You're right. And71400:44:47,370 --> 00:44:52,110now it's time for some hotnames. Good point. Good point.71500:44:53,190 --> 00:44:55,710Dave Jones: Apologies.Apologies. Thank you, Mike.71600:44:55,740 --> 00:44:57,540Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you.Apologies to the board. Yes.71700:44:58,020 --> 00:45:00,450Dave Jones: I know what Mikereally wants is the The height71800:45:00,450 --> 00:45:05,400and math talk No, no, no, that'soff limits. He's in the box,71900:45:05,430 --> 00:45:06,420he's not mad at him,72000:45:06,480 --> 00:45:09,270Adam Curry: he's already had onepoint of personal preference for72100:45:09,270 --> 00:45:09,690this board72200:45:09,690 --> 00:45:13,260Dave Jones: meeting, it's toohot. The matching gloves, too is72300:45:13,260 --> 00:45:21,360too hot. So the license tag, youcan specify by name. And it72400:45:21,360 --> 00:45:25,680comes out of that list, whichhopefully, soon we will have a72500:45:25,680 --> 00:45:30,300narrowed down list that makesmore sense. Or you can do a72600:45:30,300 --> 00:45:36,840custom license and give a URLwith a link to the license text.72700:45:37,290 --> 00:45:41,250So this, you know, you couldhave somebody who takes the V72800:45:41,250 --> 00:45:47,580for V. License, what a hammer isdeveloped, can take the that72900:45:47,580 --> 00:45:51,360license and say they wanted onechange to it. And they can be,73000:45:51,360 --> 00:45:53,370you know, put their version ofthat. And yeah,73100:45:53,400 --> 00:45:53,790Unknown: yeah,73200:45:54,090 --> 00:45:56,400Dave Jones: I think we're, Ithink we got tons of flexibility73300:45:56,400 --> 00:45:57,510here. Yes.73400:45:57,510 --> 00:46:01,830Adam Curry: And now there was acall, which I'm not very big on,73500:46:01,830 --> 00:46:03,780because I think thatautomatically puts you in a73600:46:03,780 --> 00:46:10,170whole different realm. Theywanted a when I say they, as a73700:46:10,170 --> 00:46:12,930collective, they I don't want toput this on one person. But73800:46:12,930 --> 00:46:17,310let's just say the group hasbeen talking about a maximum fee73900:46:17,310 --> 00:46:21,540taken by apps. And I don't thinkthat's a, I don't think we74000:46:21,540 --> 00:46:22,830should go down that road.74100:46:24,420 --> 00:46:29,130Dave Jones: I agree. And I'lltell you why. Because the the74200:46:29,130 --> 00:46:35,730apps act as a sort of trying tofigure out the right term for74300:46:35,730 --> 00:46:41,760this, that the apps act as asort of unbiased layer in the74400:46:41,760 --> 00:46:46,140transactions. So you have thethe listener who decides how74500:46:46,140 --> 00:46:50,520much value they're going tosend. And then you have the74600:46:50,880 --> 00:46:58,410Creator who decides how muchvalue they decide how that gets74700:46:59,100 --> 00:47:03,540allocated, or like, Okay, Iwould like during this74800:47:03,540 --> 00:47:06,450transaction, for a minimum ofthis to happen here, I want74900:47:06,450 --> 00:47:08,940these are, these are my splits,this is where the stuff goes.75000:47:09,240 --> 00:47:12,090They're out there doingallocation of whatever the value75100:47:12,090 --> 00:47:16,200is that comes in. But then youhave the the apps are in the75200:47:16,200 --> 00:47:21,330middle, they're just taking thetransaction and sending it to75300:47:21,330 --> 00:47:26,400where it was specified. They'renot once you start dictating to75400:47:26,400 --> 00:47:31,770them, what this you know howmuch how, like actual amounts,75500:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,450now, they sort of lose theirunbiased status. And it becomes75600:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,370hard for the listener to trustthe app, that the listener hast75700:47:41,370 --> 00:47:44,700in order for this for an orderfor value for value to work, the75800:47:44,700 --> 00:47:50,400listener has to know that thethe, the the party that's doing75900:47:50,400 --> 00:47:52,950the payment on their behalf orthe like you when I call the76000:47:52,950 --> 00:47:58,020payment processor or the paymentdelivery platform. They76100:47:58,020 --> 00:48:01,170themselves don't have aninterest either in anything.76200:48:01,530 --> 00:48:01,770Right.76300:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,430Adam Curry: And their fee istypically on top of what sent76400:48:05,430 --> 00:48:07,140anyway. Right?76500:48:07,290 --> 00:48:10,350Dave Jones: I think as I do, Ido not think that's a good idea76600:48:10,350 --> 00:48:13,110at all, because then then youhave the apps that are begin76700:48:13,140 --> 00:48:16,650beginning to have they'rebeginning to be pushed in a76800:48:16,650 --> 00:48:20,610certain direction by the Creatorthemselves. I don't think that I76900:48:20,610 --> 00:48:23,220agree. I don't think that Ithink that hurts trust.77000:48:23,640 --> 00:48:26,280Adam Curry: There's one otherthing that would come with this77100:48:26,280 --> 00:48:33,840license that I'm in agreementwith, it sucks, but I understand77200:48:33,840 --> 00:48:39,210it, it has to be revocable. Soyou have to be able to say,77300:48:39,330 --> 00:48:43,080Okay, if the owner of thiscontent, for whatever reason77400:48:43,080 --> 00:48:47,670revokes this license, I wouldactually have to strip that77500:48:48,150 --> 00:48:50,220remote item out of my podcast.77600:48:54,090 --> 00:48:57,210Unknown: Not a happy day. No,that sucks.77700:48:57,240 --> 00:49:01,860Adam Curry: But the if a licensecan be revoked, and it makes no77800:49:01,860 --> 00:49:02,430sense.77900:49:03,570 --> 00:49:05,550Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah, youcan't have some sense of them.78000:49:05,550 --> 00:49:07,620That's, oh, it can't be a oneway. Yeah,78100:49:07,680 --> 00:49:09,690Adam Curry: it has to berevocable. Now, will this78200:49:09,690 --> 00:49:14,670happen? I'd say 99% of the time,no, I can see where there may be78300:49:14,670 --> 00:49:20,550certain types of podcasts thatcould be purchased by a third78400:49:20,550 --> 00:49:23,790party, and that third partywould then assume the rights to78500:49:23,790 --> 00:49:27,090monetize it. And then nowthere's all kinds of language78600:49:27,090 --> 00:49:30,180like you have to give a certainamount of time you have to give78700:49:30,180 --> 00:49:32,820me time codes. You have to youknow, there's you can't just say78800:49:32,850 --> 00:49:34,710strip it out everywhere. Youcan't do that.78900:49:36,330 --> 00:49:38,730Dave Jones: I think I don'tthink that might not be that big79000:49:38,730 --> 00:49:40,770of a deal. Because you couldbasically just go through and79100:49:40,770 --> 00:49:44,910all the all the areas in yourfeed where the where this79200:49:44,910 --> 00:49:46,200particular remote where79300:49:46,200 --> 00:49:47,880Adam Curry: the violation takesplace.79400:49:48,420 --> 00:49:51,990Dave Jones: Yeah, you just knowit. You know, you just you just79500:49:51,990 --> 00:49:54,810know that, that that out andthere's no more.79600:49:55,470 --> 00:49:57,270Adam Curry: We're not just that,but you'd have to take it out of79700:49:57,270 --> 00:49:59,970the actual derivative work outof the recording.79800:50:01,290 --> 00:50:09,930Dave Jones: That's, that's yeah.Yeah, I think you're I don't79900:50:09,960 --> 00:50:12,300that's probably doesn't doesn'tsound that much different than80000:50:12,300 --> 00:50:14,580what already happens though,honestly, I mean, if somebody80100:50:14,580 --> 00:50:17,070calls you up and says, Hey, youuse this and you get into a80200:50:17,070 --> 00:50:19,830legal exactly argument withthem, you're gonna have to take80300:50:19,830 --> 00:50:20,490it out anyway.80400:50:20,970 --> 00:50:24,450Adam Curry: Exactly. So itprofessionalized is the remote80500:50:24,450 --> 00:50:28,560item. And I think, if you justview it as a remote item, and we80600:50:28,560 --> 00:50:34,260don't get bogged down intomusic, but it's a remote item, I80700:50:34,260 --> 00:50:39,150think, I think that's a very, avery fair way to go. Because we80800:50:39,150 --> 00:50:42,840can use that for everything. Andit doesn't mean that everyone's80900:50:42,840 --> 00:50:45,480going to be getting splits oneverything. And most people81000:50:45,480 --> 00:50:48,330stuff isn't interesting enoughto include in another podcast,81100:50:48,840 --> 00:50:54,960but I'll put my zero or, youknow, whatever, up to you. And81200:50:54,960 --> 00:50:58,230then if someone wants to, likeKyron, you know, he throws 20%81300:50:58,260 --> 00:51:03,870If if he uses a P, whatever, Imean, it's that nothing has to81400:51:03,870 --> 00:51:07,650change as my point only forpeople who feel that they have81500:51:07,650 --> 00:51:12,810something so valuable, that theywant a minimum. And I'll and81600:51:12,810 --> 00:51:15,630they want a license, and it'stheir stuff. So, you know, I81700:51:15,630 --> 00:51:19,710think they have every right, youknow, that I'll stay away from81800:51:19,710 --> 00:51:22,680fair use for a moment, becauseFair Use is very, very81900:51:22,680 --> 00:51:27,150complicated, and no one wants tolitigate that. But I know a lot82000:51:27,150 --> 00:51:31,140about it. But obviouslyBookstagram ball, the remote82100:51:31,140 --> 00:51:34,440items are included in that isnot fair use, you know, I'm82200:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,980using someone stuff and I'm, I'mliterally commercializing it,82300:51:39,000 --> 00:51:45,750Dave Jones: right. So, I thinkyou're fair use, your fair use82400:51:47,190 --> 00:51:51,270comes into play where you haveme, technically you don't have82500:51:51,270 --> 00:51:59,970to, you would not have to do asplit or a remote item for a82600:51:59,970 --> 00:52:04,380clip. If it would fall underfair use, you would do it82700:52:04,380 --> 00:52:09,180because you're wanting to be anice person. Exactly. So this is82800:52:09,240 --> 00:52:14,820like beyond music. And, and,like, I think that the thing82900:52:14,820 --> 00:52:19,260with music and why it's so wasso precious there is because83000:52:19,260 --> 00:52:22,860it's a full work. I mean, you'replaying a full work. And you're83100:52:22,890 --> 00:52:25,500and it's obviously there's youknow, there's there's history83200:52:25,500 --> 00:52:29,400there. But you know, with theclip, it's just like, well, you83300:52:29,400 --> 00:52:33,750know, I'm gonna give you can, Iguess you could, you know, you83400:52:33,780 --> 00:52:37,170you wouldn't, you could go inthere and say, Okay, I'm going83500:52:37,170 --> 00:52:40,770to, I'm going to vie for Vlicense all of my podcast83600:52:40,770 --> 00:52:43,320episodes so that if anybody evergets a clip, I have to get a83700:52:43,320 --> 00:52:46,800remote item. It's not reallygoing to work that way. I mean,83800:52:46,800 --> 00:52:53,220because that doesn't supersedefair use. So you got you that's83900:52:53,220 --> 00:52:56,880not really gonna work, but butfor, for music, or something84000:52:56,880 --> 00:53:00,270like that, or an audio book orthings like that. Yeah, I mean,84100:53:00,270 --> 00:53:05,670like, you really almost do needthat in place. And I can think84200:53:05,670 --> 00:53:09,510like, you know, ask him Stevehad a good, had a good point. I84300:53:09,510 --> 00:53:11,760mean, you can't really revoke alicense for something that's84400:53:11,760 --> 00:53:14,880already been it's already anevent that happened in the past.84500:53:15,480 --> 00:53:22,080I mean, with no going back. GoWell, a podcast live podcast84600:53:22,080 --> 00:53:22,350lives84700:53:22,350 --> 00:53:27,420Adam Curry: forever. You canpodcast lives forever. So it's84800:53:27,420 --> 00:53:31,020not like it's in the past. It'sit's now every day of the week.84900:53:33,840 --> 00:53:38,130Yeah, I mean, it's okay,unfortunately, is very similar85000:53:38,130 --> 00:53:42,540to tic tock and Universal Music.Yeah, yes, exactly the same85100:53:42,540 --> 00:53:44,490thing. Hey, we don't have anagreement. We have a85200:53:44,490 --> 00:53:50,580disagreement. There's peopledancing with no music. If we're85300:53:50,610 --> 00:53:54,990if we want to make the podcastformerly known as music possible85400:53:54,990 --> 00:53:57,930in value for value, I think wehave to relent on that. I'm not85500:53:57,930 --> 00:54:03,990happy about it. Because it'sjust a pain in the butt. But it85600:54:03,990 --> 00:54:05,940is what it is. Well,85700:54:05,970 --> 00:54:08,850Dave Jones: the thing I don'tknow that it says much of a pain85800:54:08,880 --> 00:54:12,870will there be niggles? Yes, butI'm not sure that this it's as85900:54:12,870 --> 00:54:17,550much of a pain as it may soundlike because if you're going86000:54:17,550 --> 00:54:21,180into V for V, your options areyou make something or you make86100:54:21,180 --> 00:54:22,080nothing right? Well,86200:54:22,080 --> 00:54:24,510Adam Curry: this is let's justbeat let's just call a spade a86300:54:24,510 --> 00:54:28,920spade. This is when someone is Vfor V and then gets picked up86400:54:29,070 --> 00:54:33,810and basically sells their stuff.Yes, right. And so it does86500:54:33,810 --> 00:54:39,360change of ownership. And there'smoney involved and I would be86600:54:39,360 --> 00:54:43,140very happy for people Oh, that'sI'm so happy for you see on the86700:54:43,140 --> 00:54:45,570next project, see you when youget dropped86800:54:49,320 --> 00:54:51,870Unknown: enough I a year fromnow, I actually86900:54:51,870 --> 00:54:56,790Adam Curry: think that very fewartists who are having success87000:54:56,820 --> 00:55:03,870in V for V i I don't know ifmany would take the big87100:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,080mainstream contract if it wasabout music. I really don't87200:55:07,080 --> 00:55:12,360think so. I mean, in a way Rogandid this Rogan sold his entire87300:55:12,360 --> 00:55:17,220catalogue to Spotify. Henegotiated 100 episodes he could87400:55:17,220 --> 00:55:17,610keep87500:55:19,109 --> 00:55:22,889Unknown: public Publix. Okay, Iknow that because he was very87600:55:22,889 --> 00:55:23,699open about that.87700:55:25,050 --> 00:55:29,010Adam Curry: And all the rest hadto be gone. And so because they87800:55:29,010 --> 00:55:32,250bought his entire catalogue, itwas really a licensing deal. And87900:55:32,250 --> 00:55:35,820so all of his stuff leftpodcasting, except for 10088000:55:35,820 --> 00:55:38,610episodes, which I think he onlykept on YouTube, maybe I don't88100:55:38,610 --> 00:55:44,040know what he did with them. Buthe kept 100. It was a included88200:55:44,070 --> 00:55:47,190podcast, he didn't want any outthere anymore. He want he wanted88300:55:47,190 --> 00:55:49,320them gone, because he didn'tlike the guest or something like88400:55:49,320 --> 00:55:53,910that. So it's very, it's verysimple. It will happen. But it88500:55:53,910 --> 00:55:55,350won't happen very often.88600:55:56,820 --> 00:56:01,170Dave Jones: Yeah, I agree. Iagree. And that, you know, if88700:56:01,170 --> 00:56:06,480Marina ask, gets, you know, she,I don't know her situation. But88800:56:06,480 --> 00:56:10,200if she was, she's now the fullowner of all her stuff. And she88900:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,800sells it and gets picked up by alabel and wants to pull that off89000:56:13,830 --> 00:56:18,480V for V. She's, she's got theright to do that. Yeah, she's89100:56:18,480 --> 00:56:21,180got the right to do that now,without a license. I mean, she89200:56:21,180 --> 00:56:23,490could she could she could dothis right? And and just take it89300:56:23,490 --> 00:56:27,150right off exactly. But then sendyou a message and say, Hey, can89400:56:27,150 --> 00:56:30,300you take this out of your show?And you'd have to Yeah, this89500:56:30,300 --> 00:56:33,060Adam Curry: is just a way tosolidify that. And I think if we89600:56:33,060 --> 00:56:37,140put the minimum, the minimumsplit value in into the spec89700:56:37,140 --> 00:56:41,430somewhere. And and the licensetag is already, you know, it can89800:56:41,430 --> 00:56:44,760already we can add that it'seasy, because the tag already89900:56:44,760 --> 00:56:49,950exists is just the new licensethat comes out. And I think we90000:56:49,950 --> 00:56:53,400should, it should be like the Vfor V license or something. So90100:56:53,430 --> 00:56:57,630if someone puts in a derivativeof the V four v license with90200:56:57,630 --> 00:57:00,990some different parameters, thathas to be apparent.90300:57:02,340 --> 00:57:04,530Dave Jones: But I still like it.Yeah, yeah. See? Yeah, but I90400:57:04,530 --> 00:57:07,560think I think, like a GPL orwhatever, exactly.90500:57:07,560 --> 00:57:10,980Adam Curry: I think I think thiswill kind of flesh out. I'm not90600:57:10,980 --> 00:57:13,560too worried. I don't also wedon't have to get all messed up90700:57:13,560 --> 00:57:16,230about it. Because this, thiswill work out. We I mean, we90800:57:16,260 --> 00:57:20,760really, believe me, the not asingle person that said, Boy,90900:57:20,760 --> 00:57:23,880this really sucks. I get noSatoshis everyone is positive.91000:57:24,300 --> 00:57:26,520Everyone's positive because theyhaven't gotten any they've been91100:57:26,520 --> 00:57:30,270so screwed. This is like, justeverything has been positive91200:57:30,270 --> 00:57:38,910about this. Now, along withthat. I'm very proud of Julian91300:57:38,910 --> 00:57:44,550Jim Costello, who have launchedphantom power music.io. They91400:57:44,550 --> 00:57:49,440have, you should take a look atthis website. They have launched91500:57:49,440 --> 00:57:55,650a company to onboard artistsinto value for value.91600:57:56,940 --> 00:57:59,790Dave Jones: Ooh, this is prettyso nice website. Yeah.91700:57:59,790 --> 00:58:03,600Adam Curry: And they're doingeducation. And you know,91800:58:03,600 --> 00:58:06,840they're, I think they'vepartnered with RSS blue.com for91900:58:06,840 --> 00:58:12,030hosting. And I mean, they'vereally, I think they've really92000:58:12,030 --> 00:58:15,390done a very thought a long andthey've been thinking about they92100:58:15,390 --> 00:58:19,500have all the experiencehonestly. They know it they92200:58:19,500 --> 00:58:22,950understand they understand howall this stuff works. Look. Oh,92300:58:22,950 --> 00:58:24,990look, I didn't notice that theyhave all look at all the apps.92400:58:24,990 --> 00:58:29,130They have all the apps there.Receive boost today. Grab an app92500:58:29,130 --> 00:58:31,890you can zap No. Okay, well, ifyou have to put this app in92600:58:31,890 --> 00:58:35,130there and I understand Iunderstand the rhyming but okay.92700:58:36,690 --> 00:58:40,410Oh, look, they got the musicshows down there as well. So92800:58:40,410 --> 00:58:43,380they're really promoting thewhole thing. And it was it was92900:58:43,380 --> 00:58:46,260kind of cute. They're like,Please don't hate us for because93000:58:46,260 --> 00:58:51,120they asked $10 a month. This isplease don't hate us for for93100:58:51,120 --> 00:58:55,560asking for Fiat. So you getinside off by people. It's okay.93200:58:56,250 --> 00:58:58,920Dave Jones: Yeah, it's okay. bigof a deal. Yeah,93300:58:58,980 --> 00:59:01,830Adam Curry: I think they do is$10 a month they set you up,93400:59:01,830 --> 00:59:05,430they help you they give you allthe education. It's probably93500:59:05,430 --> 00:59:08,010more in a group setting. I thinkthey're gonna do like big deal93600:59:08,010 --> 00:59:13,980calls and stuff. And then 5% ofyour SATs. 5% split. As you say93700:59:13,980 --> 00:59:16,560fair, yeah. And they help youmanage everything. I mean, I'm93800:59:16,560 --> 00:59:20,040happy because now I can say toartists go instead of me93900:59:20,040 --> 00:59:24,750explaining go here. Go talk tothese people. They94000:59:24,750 --> 00:59:27,630Dave Jones: have Marina Oscar isone of their or they do one of94100:59:27,630 --> 00:59:27,840their94200:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,070Adam Curry: orders. Do you havetheir art get it out? They have94300:59:32,760 --> 00:59:37,200Abby Mendler here AinsleyCostello Amber Sweeney. Jack and94400:59:37,200 --> 00:59:41,430Mr. Mr. JESSICA Well, I likethese I like these. I want to94500:59:41,430 --> 00:59:46,110trust it. I happen to pick thetrusted for our song today.94600:59:46,860 --> 00:59:52,560Dave Jones: Oh, it gets the youknow what wait. Wave Lake has94700:59:52,560 --> 00:59:55,890really stepped they stepped upto I mean, they have they have94800:59:56,160 --> 00:59:58,890they've got two new podcaststhat are that they're doing now94900:59:58,920 --> 01:00:03,540mixtape and wave or in there?They interviewed your buddy.95001:00:03,540 --> 01:00:03,690Yeah,95101:00:03,690 --> 01:00:05,940Adam Curry: Cody what? That wasgreat. I was like, Oh, this is95201:00:05,970 --> 01:00:13,500an I didn't know that. FM radiowas FM radio. But that was95301:00:13,500 --> 01:00:14,070Michael.95401:00:16,109 --> 01:00:18,659Unknown: That's his band Finnradio. Oh, no, no,95501:00:18,660 --> 01:00:22,020Adam Curry: not FM radio, wasit? No, no, the pirate radio95601:00:22,020 --> 01:00:23,400that's on pirate radio.95701:00:24,720 --> 01:00:27,750Dave Jones: Yeah, they they'vedone a lot. And I want to make95801:00:27,750 --> 01:00:30,330sure because people inpodcasting took one over, given95901:00:30,330 --> 01:00:33,780them heat before and we have to,but they stepped up, they fixed96001:00:33,810 --> 01:00:37,380they have really changed theirfeeds their auto billing. I96101:00:37,380 --> 01:00:40,380think right now the auto says,Oh, he had their auto96201:00:40,380 --> 01:00:43,860submitting. They're doing valuetime splits. They've got their96301:00:43,860 --> 01:00:48,390feeds have channel level valueblocks now. Like they're they've96401:00:48,540 --> 01:00:53,490they've fully adapted to the forthe podcasting based music. And96501:00:53,550 --> 01:00:56,400I mean, like they deserve allthe credit in the world for96601:00:56,400 --> 01:00:59,100chain for making. Absolutely,absolutely.96701:00:59,400 --> 01:01:02,670Adam Curry: We needed we needed.We needed them to do that we96801:01:02,670 --> 01:01:06,180needed. We needed him to dothat. We really did. And I love96901:01:06,180 --> 01:01:09,570it. And I'm I'm sure they stillhave a focus on noster97001:01:09,570 --> 01:01:12,870somewhere. But when I listen totheir shows, it's getting there.97101:01:13,860 --> 01:01:14,940It really is. Yeah.97201:01:16,260 --> 01:01:19,170Dave Jones: It's beautiful. Ithink they deserve they deserve97301:01:19,170 --> 01:01:22,830some credit. They deserve thekudos. Yeah, for sure. For sure.97401:01:24,660 --> 01:01:28,260Unknown: So that's happening.Yeah.97501:01:29,670 --> 01:01:33,330Dave Jones: This I want to talka little bit about what Mitch97601:01:33,330 --> 01:01:39,600posted? Yes. With, you know,just burnout. Because he did97701:01:39,600 --> 01:01:42,360Adam Curry: he actually use theburnout term? Because I mean, I97801:01:42,360 --> 01:01:46,050read it as burnout. I'm like, Iyou and I texted I don't even97901:01:46,050 --> 01:01:49,650know what to say. I mean, I feelhorrible about this. I mean,98001:01:50,010 --> 01:01:52,740what can I do? You know, I cansend him money. But that's not98101:01:52,740 --> 01:01:57,180gonna that's not a salary. Youknow, what do we do? What how? I98201:01:57,180 --> 01:01:59,760mean, this is hard. This is hardstuff.98301:02:00,630 --> 01:02:04,590Dave Jones: I think. So. Let mejust see if I can pull this post98401:02:04,590 --> 01:02:08,370up real quick, make sure weaccurately represent what he98501:02:08,370 --> 01:02:13,980said, because I think he did saythat he was burned out. See, so98601:02:13,980 --> 01:02:17,340I've been off the grid. So longfolks have been busy with98701:02:17,340 --> 01:02:19,500combination and making money. SoI don't have to get back to the98801:02:19,500 --> 01:02:22,290day job to be frank pa versuspretty overwhelming to keep up98901:02:22,290 --> 01:02:26,700with keeps more and it gets moreoverwhelming with each day, I'll99001:02:26,700 --> 01:02:30,360let things fall behind. I'vebeen working on pod verse for 1099101:02:30,360 --> 01:02:34,320years now. And absolutely love.He said, I didn't even know how99201:02:34,320 --> 01:02:37,620to code when I started. Andabsolutely love what we've99301:02:37,620 --> 01:02:40,290accomplished. But I've alwayshad hoped we would have would99401:02:40,290 --> 01:02:44,700have a thriving open sourcecommunity by now. I don't know99501:02:44,700 --> 01:02:46,860what course of action canconvert pod verse from being99601:02:46,860 --> 01:02:49,860this 10 hour a day labor of lovefor me into a reasonably managed99701:02:49,860 --> 01:02:54,000business with adequateresources. The truth is, as pod99801:02:54,000 --> 01:02:57,450verse has grown more popular, isbecome more difficult to keep up99901:02:57,450 --> 01:02:59,610with. We have many generoussupporters, but the money we100001:02:59,610 --> 01:03:02,250make is far from being able topay someone a full time salary.100101:03:02,940 --> 01:03:06,570And then he says they don't wantto accept VC money focusing on100201:03:06,570 --> 01:03:11,700getting caught up now. So, youknow, anytime he talks about100301:03:11,730 --> 01:03:15,150unless there were an increase insteady open source contributors,100401:03:15,150 --> 01:03:17,670I can't see I can keep up withthe rate of progress and100501:03:17,670 --> 01:03:23,730responsiveness. People are usedto for sure. Yeah. So I just100601:03:23,730 --> 01:03:27,390want to talk a little bit aboutthat. Because, I mean, I've been100701:03:27,390 --> 01:03:32,250involved in open sourceprojects. So that's happened. So100801:03:32,250 --> 01:03:32,940I can hear that. I'm100901:03:32,940 --> 01:03:34,560Adam Curry: sorry. I didn't meanto do that to you.101001:03:35,460 --> 01:03:38,340Dave Jones: It sounds like Ithought that was you. It was101101:03:38,340 --> 01:03:42,450Adam Curry: me. It was me. W noidea why that why that worked101201:03:42,450 --> 01:03:43,590that way. Okay. Yeah.101301:03:43,950 --> 01:03:46,440Dave Jones: But I've beeninvolved in PUC in open source101401:03:46,620 --> 01:03:53,160projects for more than a decade.And this one's going on three101501:03:53,160 --> 01:03:59,850years. And I've had times whenAbsolutely. The I'm just gonna101601:03:59,850 --> 01:04:03,480use the term burnout. I don'tthink it's fair. I think it's101701:04:03,480 --> 01:04:06,660just a general term. I don'tthink it's unfair to Mitch Yeah.101801:04:07,200 --> 01:04:12,660To say burnout because we all weall we all get there. And, you101901:04:12,660 --> 01:04:15,180know, Martin Martin from potFrance, he felt he didn't get102001:04:15,180 --> 01:04:21,570burned out, as well. And so, youknow, I would I would want to102101:04:21,570 --> 01:04:29,280say a couple of things here ismanaging an open source project102201:04:30,900 --> 01:04:37,200is primarily not about the thetechnology, tap it, it's about102301:04:37,200 --> 01:04:42,240relationships. It's aboutmanaging relationships. There's102401:04:42,240 --> 01:04:46,260this quote from Charlotte Mason.She's, like our kids go to a102501:04:46,260 --> 01:04:50,460Charlotte Mason school. She wasan educator from the 1800s. But102601:04:50,460 --> 01:04:53,880she has this, this phrase thatshe says education is the102701:04:53,880 --> 01:04:58,080science of relationships. Ithink that's what open source102801:04:58,200 --> 01:05:00,480open source is all about thescience of managing102901:05:00,480 --> 01:05:09,930relationships. Right? And so youlike you? I kind of I kind of103001:05:09,960 --> 01:05:17,790you get bogged down my I neverfeel burned out. And I think103101:05:17,790 --> 01:05:25,320part of the reason is becauseI've learned to adapt to103201:05:25,380 --> 01:05:30,240basically like an it's, it'sjust it's fine mentality. It's103301:05:30,240 --> 01:05:34,020fine, it's fine. It's like thatlittle guy with the with the103401:05:34,050 --> 01:05:36,990with the comic with holding thecoffee and everything's on fire,103501:05:36,990 --> 01:05:37,620you know, it's fine.103601:05:38,550 --> 01:05:42,450Adam Curry: Burn, everyone'sburning up. All right, in103701:05:42,450 --> 01:05:45,840Dave Jones: there's a fewdifferent there's a in it all103801:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,890comes down to relationships. Soyou could put you could you103901:05:49,890 --> 01:05:53,520could look at it like this ifyou want to like say like some I104001:05:53,520 --> 01:05:59,250don't know, rules are sort oflike essence concepts. It's104101:05:59,250 --> 01:06:04,290fine. Not to respond to people.That's sort of like, the first104201:06:04,290 --> 01:06:09,480thing in this in it when itcomes to managing open source104301:06:09,840 --> 01:06:13,110is, you know, you had to pickone like, basically pick one104401:06:13,110 --> 01:06:16,170public communication channel.These are just the things that104501:06:16,170 --> 01:06:19,830I've done. Pick one publiccommunication channel, pick one104601:06:19,830 --> 01:06:22,440private communication channelfor most people, that's email.104701:06:23,760 --> 01:06:27,510And just stick with that. Don'tget sucked into 15 different104801:06:27,570 --> 01:06:32,550communication channels withwhere your own telegram matrix104901:06:32,550 --> 01:06:39,360GitHub, Mastodon email, textmessage signal team, Slack, and105001:06:39,390 --> 01:06:43,740it will, it will drive youinsane. You can't you'll never105101:06:43,740 --> 01:06:48,120rest. It's awful. This is like,this is like the Marco Arment105201:06:48,120 --> 01:06:50,700strategy. Just ignore people.105301:06:52,530 --> 01:06:55,260Adam Curry: Pretty successfulwith that strategy? Right?105401:06:55,260 --> 01:06:57,180Dave Jones: Yeah. And I mean, hewould be honest with you and105501:06:57,180 --> 01:07:02,670say, yeah, it, you He, He willnot answer your emails 99% of105601:07:02,670 --> 01:07:07,740the time. But it's for isbecause if you get sucked into105701:07:07,740 --> 01:07:11,190that, and you let yourselfbecome burdened by the105801:07:11,190 --> 01:07:15,360responsibility of responding toeverybody, yeah, you will burn105901:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,900yourself out your your your fusewill go out fast.106001:07:18,930 --> 01:07:22,800Adam Curry: By the way, thisgoes even for podcasters. Sure,106101:07:22,830 --> 01:07:25,470I mean, it's the same thing. Ican't respond to everybody. I106201:07:25,470 --> 01:07:30,570certainly can't, I wind up, windup doing my email, I wind up106301:07:30,570 --> 01:07:33,330praying for a lot of people, noresponse, but I prayed for you.106401:07:34,710 --> 01:07:36,780It's really nothing else you cando sometimes.106501:07:38,130 --> 01:07:40,860Dave Jones: I silenced almostall of my GitHub repo106601:07:40,860 --> 01:07:43,290notifications, I don't getnotifications from the namespace106701:07:43,290 --> 01:07:45,870anymore. People post thingsthere and I don't even know.106801:07:46,440 --> 01:07:52,320And, and I go in when when Ichoose to engage with namespace,106901:07:52,350 --> 01:07:56,490I go and I check out what'sthere. Notification fatigue will107001:07:56,490 --> 01:08:01,260kill you. Yeah. It willliterally stress you out. If107101:08:01,260 --> 01:08:04,170somebody posts something on arepository and it takes you like107201:08:04,170 --> 01:08:08,460a month before you even see it.Guess what? As far as what it107301:08:08,460 --> 01:08:14,910is, it's fine. Nobody died.Nobody got sick. It's fine. You107401:08:14,910 --> 01:08:17,700know, people will eventuallylearn your communication107501:08:17,700 --> 01:08:22,080cadence. Amen? And what toexpect from communicating with107601:08:22,080 --> 01:08:26,100you. It's like, I don't youknow, Dave Winer used to be you107701:08:26,100 --> 01:08:28,290know, he's he wrote this longthing about if you're going to107801:08:28,290 --> 01:08:31,050work with me, here's what youneed to know about. The way I107901:08:31,050 --> 01:08:33,210Adam Curry: work. I rememberYes. Oh, yes, I remember these108001:08:33,210 --> 01:08:33,900very well.108101:08:35,099 --> 01:08:37,619Dave Jones: It's like, No, I'vegot three modes. I've got um,108201:08:37,619 --> 01:08:40,259heads down working mode, I'vegot I'm communicating mode, and108301:08:40,259 --> 01:08:44,069I forget all the details. Yeah.But like he published his like,108401:08:44,069 --> 01:08:49,049cadence of how he, how you couldexpect to work with him. I don't108501:08:49,049 --> 01:08:52,949think you have to do that. Idon't think you have to publish108601:08:52,949 --> 01:08:56,099that. I think people just learnthat people learn that, oh,108701:08:56,159 --> 01:08:58,559after they communicate with youa few times, they learned that108801:08:58,679 --> 01:09:02,279sometimes you're just not goingto respond for perhaps a month.108901:09:03,089 --> 01:09:06,209And they just know that you'rethere and you will eventually109001:09:06,209 --> 01:09:08,429you get back to them and theyknow that that everything's109101:09:08,429 --> 01:09:13,019fine. Right? And so it's it'snot it's not something you have109201:09:13,019 --> 01:09:16,739to get super detailed about. Butit's all you know, I guess the109301:09:16,739 --> 01:09:22,559second part is it's also fine.In this is big and open source109401:09:22,559 --> 01:09:27,449too. It's also fine if peopleare not nice to you. Because109501:09:27,509 --> 01:09:32,459people are gonna are going to benot nice to you. This is true109601:09:32,459 --> 01:09:37,529with all open source. People sayterrible things. People get109701:09:37,529 --> 01:09:43,259selfish. It's going to happen.And you have to know upfront you109801:09:43,259 --> 01:09:48,059have to cultivate thick skin.People are gonna say mean stuff.109901:09:48,090 --> 01:09:51,060Adam Curry: I can't it's almostlike being a podcaster people110001:09:51,060 --> 01:09:53,400will say the most horriblethings.110101:09:53,729 --> 01:09:57,509Unknown: You don't know whatyou're doing the D You should110201:09:57,509 --> 01:09:59,609have said why didn't you dothat? How can I110301:09:59,610 --> 01:10:03,420Adam Curry: camp Oh, my head. Ican't believe you missed that.110401:10:03,900 --> 01:10:08,520And I see it with with apps likethis sucks this apps no good.110501:10:08,820 --> 01:10:12,060Get you know, what is myfavorite? Like, this is a basic110601:10:12,060 --> 01:10:13,230functionality.110701:10:13,950 --> 01:10:20,640Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly. Yeah.Why didn't knew dot dot dot? You110801:10:20,640 --> 01:10:24,450know that anything that startswith I can't believe.dot.or What110901:10:24,480 --> 01:10:28,530Why did you Why didn't you do itthis way dot dot dot? Yeah, very111001:10:28,530 --> 01:10:34,500typical. People are gonna leaveyou one star reviews. Yep. It's111101:10:34,500 --> 01:10:37,350gonna happen, you know, peopleare gonna, they're going to, you111201:10:37,350 --> 01:10:40,860know, smear essentially smearyour product. They're gonna111301:10:40,860 --> 01:10:45,600criticize almost every decisionthat you make, at some point.111401:10:47,430 --> 01:10:49,920They're gonna send you hatemail. We've gotten tons of hate111501:10:49,920 --> 01:10:55,980mail, about everything about theshow about the project. Ever111601:10:55,980 --> 01:11:01,290every time you know, every,every time you allow yourself to111701:11:01,290 --> 01:11:08,790get angry. You turn your burnoutmeter up another notch. Yeah. If111801:11:08,790 --> 01:11:14,160somebody's a jerk, lock theissue, or close it, if they keep111901:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,860being a jerk, block them or mutethem, and then go eat some ice112001:11:16,860 --> 01:11:20,970cream and have a good day. Andthat's, it's really all about112101:11:20,970 --> 01:11:24,420that. So this is this is freshin my mind, because somebody112201:11:24,420 --> 01:11:27,420said something recently to me,and it gets in a GitHub issue.112301:11:30,180 --> 01:11:34,380Saying that they didn't wantthey did not want to listen to112401:11:34,380 --> 01:11:40,140the show, in order to keep upwith the project. And that I112501:11:40,140 --> 01:11:44,190should be that I should bepublishing minutes of this of112601:11:44,190 --> 01:11:47,070the board meeting each week. Oh,well, why you don't want to112701:11:47,070 --> 01:11:48,450listen to the show? Oh,112801:11:48,480 --> 01:11:52,230Adam Curry: oh, I see. Well, wehave a transcript. Right.112901:11:52,620 --> 01:11:56,880Dave Jones: And, you know, my,my response to that was, stop113001:11:56,880 --> 01:11:58,650telling me what I'm supposed todo with my time.113101:11:59,580 --> 01:12:01,410Adam Curry: Yeah, reclaimingReclaiming my time.113201:12:03,210 --> 01:12:05,040Dave Jones: I'm not playing I'mnot playing this game. This is113301:12:05,040 --> 01:12:08,280not a year, this is no longer afeature request. This is now a113401:12:08,280 --> 01:12:13,380demand. And I reject yourdemands go away. Yeah. And so113501:12:13,380 --> 01:12:16,980this, this is this is how youdeal with that sort of stuff.113601:12:18,870 --> 01:12:25,440And the, I guess the hardestpart is the last part is is if113701:12:25,440 --> 01:12:32,220the servers go down, it's stillfine. It's okay. stuff does go113801:12:32,220 --> 01:12:39,540down. It's gonna happen. Andit's really It's okay. When113901:12:39,540 --> 01:12:42,180somebody tells you, the serversare down, and you feel that that114001:12:42,180 --> 01:12:46,170panic in your stomach, go go geta cup of coffee. Take a 10114101:12:46,170 --> 01:12:51,000minute walk before you ever openup an SSH terminal. Just go114201:12:51,000 --> 01:12:57,120chill out. It's fine. Life willgo on. Everybody's okay. Yeah,114301:12:57,150 --> 01:13:00,840everybody's servers go down.Sometimes. It's not a reflection114401:13:00,840 --> 01:13:04,770on you. If people get mad aboutit or mean about it, and that,114501:13:04,770 --> 01:13:09,450you know, it's not it's not abig deal. It's all fine. I mean,114601:13:09,480 --> 01:13:13,740server team, Microsoft Teams wasdown for 10 hours the other day114701:13:13,740 --> 01:13:14,520globally.114801:13:14,580 --> 01:13:18,150Adam Curry: Oh, God. I can onlyimagine the calls that came in114901:13:18,150 --> 01:13:20,340that that support team. Yeah,115001:13:20,670 --> 01:13:23,970Dave Jones: people were freakingout and losing their mind. But115101:13:23,970 --> 01:13:26,910you know what, it's fine.There's today they didn't lose a115201:13:26,910 --> 01:13:30,330bet you they did not lose asingle customer. In his in his115301:13:30,330 --> 01:13:33,630okay. And this is an open sourceproject. Remember, the more115401:13:33,630 --> 01:13:38,910users you have the more demandsat our own placed on your115501:13:38,910 --> 01:13:41,580system. So if you lose somecustomers, it's actually better115601:13:41,580 --> 01:13:45,600for you. You're in a betterposition than the worst. It's a115701:13:45,600 --> 01:13:51,270plus. Yeah, it's a plus a bonus.Win. Okay, I got one. Okay.115801:13:51,480 --> 01:13:53,460Adam Curry: What can I say? CanI say one thing? Hold on.115901:13:54,390 --> 01:13:57,210There's also with open sourceprojects. We just had this116001:13:57,210 --> 01:14:04,800ourselves recently. For threeyears, we have been told you got116101:14:04,800 --> 01:14:07,410to have a marketing website. Yougot to do this. You got to do116201:14:07,410 --> 01:14:10,050that. And we're like, No, hey,Phoebe. Yeah. So you can write116301:14:10,050 --> 01:14:17,160the marketing website BB. Andfinally, it dawned on Daniel J116401:14:17,160 --> 01:14:22,470and I think he's teamed up withwith James Cridland well Oh,116501:14:22,470 --> 01:14:28,170we'll do the marketing site butshe thank you yeah, it's like so116601:14:28,170 --> 01:14:31,590weird. This is an open sourceproject every single bit of it116701:14:32,640 --> 01:14:37,830as like yes, yes, yes. Yes,please do I want 10 of them in116801:14:37,830 --> 01:14:39,030different languages.116901:14:40,380 --> 01:14:42,900Dave Jones: That fits perfectlywith what I was about to say I117001:14:42,900 --> 01:14:45,210thought I was done but Iactually have one more point and117101:14:45,210 --> 01:14:48,750this is this is this exactpoint. When people to ask you117201:14:48,780 --> 01:14:53,400when people ask you to dosomething. You asked them to do117301:14:53,400 --> 01:14:57,780it instead? Yeah. Why don't youdo it? Yeah, like a her longtime117401:14:57,780 --> 01:15:00,840I heard a long time ago heard asermon by this pastor and he was117501:15:00,840 --> 01:15:04,770saying, He said, Every timesomebody said, when I first got117601:15:04,770 --> 01:15:06,960here to this church, peoplewould come up and say, Hey,117701:15:06,960 --> 01:15:10,410Pastor, I really think we need aministry that does so and so and117801:15:10,410 --> 01:15:14,340so and so who reaching out tothese, this people group or117901:15:14,340 --> 01:15:16,800whatever, right? And he said,that sounds like a great idea.118001:15:17,010 --> 01:15:20,880Let me know when it's up andrunning. And he said, this funny118101:15:20,880 --> 01:15:22,890thing is, like, most of thetime, it just never, you know,118201:15:23,220 --> 01:15:25,770they never did it. And that's,that's the thing is like when118301:15:25,770 --> 01:15:28,170somebody says, Hey, can you addthis feature to your product?118401:15:28,620 --> 01:15:32,100That most of the time the answershould be? Here's the link to118501:15:32,100 --> 01:15:35,820the GitHub repo. That soundslike a great idea. Yeah. When118601:15:35,820 --> 01:15:38,490you when you get it done, sendme the pull request, and I'll118701:15:38,490 --> 01:15:43,110review it and merge it. Thatsounds great. Exactly. And 99%118801:15:43,110 --> 01:15:49,200of the time, they won't do it.But the 1% of the time, they118901:15:49,200 --> 01:15:55,560actually do it. You get somebodylike an Alex gates, like an Eric119001:15:55,560 --> 01:16:01,320PP. You know, like a CSB like aStephen crater, like a Nathan119101:16:01,320 --> 01:16:05,820Gath. Right. I mean, the let youget people that step up like119201:16:05,820 --> 01:16:10,020Daniel J. Lewis, you get peoplewho step up and do and do119301:16:10,020 --> 01:16:15,480awesome stuff. In nine dead, theother 99 people that didn't want119401:16:15,480 --> 01:16:18,780to do this stuff, but neverparticipated. You don't have to119501:16:18,780 --> 01:16:21,150let those people bother you.Right.119601:16:21,150 --> 01:16:23,580Adam Curry: So on the heels ofthis, I immediately have to ask119701:16:23,580 --> 01:16:30,480everybody to straighten outtheir to V records right away. I119801:16:30,480 --> 01:16:33,180need you to put the rightinformation in please.119901:16:34,410 --> 01:16:39,210Dave Jones: Oh, is this a isthis a? Is this a huge problem120001:16:39,210 --> 01:16:39,870we're dealing with?120101:16:39,900 --> 01:16:43,080Adam Curry: Yeah, it is kind ofa big problem. Okay, customer120201:16:43,080 --> 01:16:47,370Matic sometimes doesn't send thename of the podcast or the name120301:16:47,370 --> 01:16:49,980of the song or it only sends thename of the song. It's a remote120401:16:49,980 --> 01:16:54,780item stuff. It's remote itemstuff. I would I would120501:16:54,780 --> 01:16:58,350respectfully request if if youhappen to be rooting around UTL120601:16:58,350 --> 01:17:04,440V records code. Could you sendalong podcast name, Episode120701:17:04,440 --> 01:17:08,820name, if there's a remote itemremote item name. That would be120801:17:08,820 --> 01:17:11,970really, really awesome. You canyou can even do just do the120901:17:11,970 --> 01:17:15,600GUID. You can do the good Whatare you laughing about? TLB is121001:17:15,960 --> 01:17:21,810not hot. Yeah. You can even dothe GUID because how the pad121101:17:21,810 --> 01:17:24,900will resolve that. And if and ifyou have extra time just121201:17:24,900 --> 01:17:28,740happened to be rooting around.The reply is really fun. But I121301:17:28,740 --> 01:17:32,550can only reply to people usingcast thematic and curio caster121401:17:33,150 --> 01:17:38,280is really fun. My listeners loveit. They really love it. When I121501:17:38,280 --> 01:17:40,410send them when I pay. You knowwhat happens? They'll send me a121601:17:40,410 --> 01:17:43,320boost back. It's crazy. Now I'vegot email where they're paying121701:17:43,320 --> 01:17:44,370me is great.121801:17:45,120 --> 01:17:47,580Dave Jones: Now not every pap isjumping in with TVs are a mess.121901:17:47,820 --> 01:17:50,220Everybody that starts gettinginto the to Wii game, and122001:17:50,220 --> 01:17:56,250they're always like, Oh, this isa shutter down your spine. But122101:17:56,250 --> 01:17:59,130it works. It somehow works.Well. He has122201:17:59,130 --> 01:18:00,840Adam Curry: a link which I'llput in the show notes, which I122301:18:00,840 --> 01:18:05,610guess is that? Oh, yeah. Okay.So yeah, this is a this is a122401:18:05,610 --> 01:18:10,890good Blip 10 to V recordbreakdown that Spurlock did this122501:18:10,890 --> 01:18:13,020is very this is very goodpeople. This is very good. I'll122601:18:13,020 --> 01:18:19,560put that in there. So we can alltake a look at it. apps to the122701:18:19,560 --> 01:18:23,010breakdown. That's good. I mean,it I mean, just when you have a122801:18:23,010 --> 01:18:25,620moment, just have a moment totake look at it. Really122901:18:25,620 --> 01:18:27,630appreciate that. Because from123001:18:28,380 --> 01:18:31,440Dave Jones: Yeah, I just don'twant people to burn out. And,123101:18:31,650 --> 01:18:36,480and Mitch has been doing thisfor a long time to you know, 10123201:18:36,480 --> 01:18:39,900years on pod verse. That's along time and I don't you know,123301:18:39,900 --> 01:18:42,870I don't blame him. He, you know,he's, he's got other things to123401:18:42,900 --> 01:18:45,810think about in his life, but andhe's, it's not like pod versus123501:18:45,810 --> 01:18:48,150shutting down there. They'rejust gonna slow down, they don't123601:18:48,150 --> 01:18:51,900have the bandwidth anymore toadd features and stuff. Which123701:18:51,900 --> 01:18:54,360is, you know, which is fine, andI want to get him back on the123801:18:54,360 --> 01:18:57,330show, it'd be a good thing totalk it over with him. But it's123901:18:57,330 --> 01:19:01,470just, you know, I just, youknow, it I just don't want124001:19:01,470 --> 01:19:04,650people to burn out. And if youif you pace yourself and you124101:19:04,650 --> 01:19:10,200don't let people of open sourcewill wreck you if you let124201:19:10,200 --> 01:19:12,750Adam Curry: it Yes, it will suckyour soul. It124301:19:12,750 --> 01:19:16,320Dave Jones: will. But you thereare ways where you basically124401:19:16,560 --> 01:19:17,970don't have to let it do that.124501:19:18,270 --> 01:19:22,080Adam Curry: And if I maycompliment you on how124601:19:22,080 --> 01:19:27,360wonderfully you have managedthis orchestra of nutjobs124701:19:28,260 --> 01:19:32,190because that's what we have. Wehave no we have an orchestra and124801:19:32,220 --> 01:19:36,570there's people with a you knowwith a ukulele and the guy124901:19:36,570 --> 01:19:39,870playing spoons and someone elsehas a washboard and there's a125001:19:40,080 --> 01:19:44,250guy who has a huge drum kit andand you this is why you're the125101:19:44,250 --> 01:19:47,760pod sage you have a verybeautiful demeanor about125201:19:47,760 --> 01:19:53,100managing that you respond injust always the right way. If it125301:19:53,100 --> 01:19:57,720were me, this would have blownup within three months. Yes,125401:19:57,780 --> 01:20:00,720although I have I have gottenbetter in If there's things that125501:20:00,720 --> 01:20:02,640have happened to me in the pastthree years that have made me125601:20:02,640 --> 01:20:08,430better, but you have you reallyyou have been managing. You have125701:20:08,430 --> 01:20:11,490been managing this group,mainly, I'd say, the the GitHub125801:20:11,490 --> 01:20:14,880and just the how things are, areput in, I just nothing but props125901:20:14,880 --> 01:20:16,380for you, brother, nothing butprops for you.126001:20:16,620 --> 01:20:19,920Dave Jones: Thanks. It's, it'sif you let it, if you let it own126101:20:19,920 --> 01:20:24,300you, it will, it will, you willget out, you will burn out fast.126201:20:24,390 --> 01:20:29,220And if you if you keep it as ifyou, if you keep it as fun, keep126301:20:29,220 --> 01:20:34,590it as a as a thing that's that'sthat you do that brings you126401:20:34,590 --> 01:20:38,910enjoyment, and not as trying tomake it exactly. If you see it126501:20:38,910 --> 01:20:41,370as your job and you thinkeverything depends on that126601:20:41,370 --> 01:20:45,300project. You're not going tolast it's gonna go so fast.126701:20:45,750 --> 01:20:48,540Yeah, especially when you startgetting some users. That's when126801:20:48,540 --> 01:20:52,170things actually are not preparedfor that, then the more users126901:20:52,170 --> 01:20:54,450you have, the more it will hurt.I've always127001:20:54,450 --> 01:20:57,150Adam Curry: said, you know,every I've had many companies127101:20:57,150 --> 01:20:59,910and always said we would have agreat company if we just didn't127201:20:59,910 --> 01:21:01,050have any customers.127301:21:02,430 --> 01:21:06,480Dave Jones: So true. Everybody.I cannot tell you how many times127401:21:06,480 --> 01:21:10,530I've heard somebody say, yeah,man, you know, I bet you bet127501:21:10,530 --> 01:21:13,890you'd be great if you had so andso as a customer using the API.127601:21:13,890 --> 01:21:14,940And I'm like, no,127701:21:16,440 --> 01:21:20,190Adam Curry: no, no. But that'sthe same with podcasting. The127801:21:20,190 --> 01:21:22,710minute you get a whole bunch ofpeople listening, everyone has127901:21:22,710 --> 01:21:27,570an opinion. Nobody knows howeasy you make it look. Now, it's128001:21:27,570 --> 01:21:29,790like, Hey, you just you justtalking to a microphone for128101:21:29,790 --> 01:21:32,610three hours twice a week? Whatis it, just give me a break.128201:21:33,240 --> 01:21:37,140Now, it's really the same withany anything with other people.128301:21:37,170 --> 01:21:41,970It's pure people, understandingof people and how people are128401:21:42,000 --> 01:21:43,380it's just that's what it is.128501:21:43,740 --> 01:21:46,980Dave Jones: You know, podcastsare that's it's funny. Podcasts128601:21:46,980 --> 01:21:49,620are open source. You know, Alexsaid something the other day128701:21:49,620 --> 01:21:55,200that seemed like fun that he wassaying. I think it was a little128801:21:55,200 --> 01:22:00,930bit of a just a passing commentthat he threw in. But it made me128901:22:00,930 --> 01:22:04,950think about the similaritiesbetween open source and and129001:22:04,950 --> 01:22:10,560podcasting. Because podcasts aresort of like the best ones129101:22:10,560 --> 01:22:16,500anyway. The ones like you do, orthey're they are open source129201:22:16,500 --> 01:22:23,910projects in and of themselves.That yeah, he's, it's, I think129301:22:23,910 --> 01:22:27,810he said something about thevalue for value. I can't129401:22:27,810 --> 01:22:33,690remember his comment. But thevalue I think value for value129501:22:33,690 --> 01:22:43,920maybe only works fully. Whenwhen the cut when the when the129601:22:43,920 --> 01:22:47,790listener or the consumer,whatever you want to call them129701:22:47,790 --> 01:22:51,990depend on what is when theconsumer helps build the129801:22:51,990 --> 01:22:52,710product.129901:22:53,760 --> 01:22:57,510Adam Curry: Yes, yes. You know,when you're involved in it's a130001:22:57,510 --> 01:23:01,740two way street. It's mylisteners are called producers130101:23:01,740 --> 01:23:05,190for this very reason. Is thatwhat you're talking about? Yeah,130201:23:05,220 --> 01:23:09,300exactly. Yeah. You're involvedyou have you have a stake,130301:23:09,330 --> 01:23:12,960you're a stakeholder in theproduct. This is not like radio,130401:23:12,960 --> 01:23:16,530this is where I think radioreally is very different. It has130501:23:16,530 --> 01:23:23,190other advantages, like locality,and you know, immediacy, but the130601:23:23,220 --> 01:23:26,760feedback loop, which is exactlyhow it where value for value130701:23:26,760 --> 01:23:30,540fits in, you have a feedbackloop, you have to ask you have130801:23:30,540 --> 01:23:37,080to thank you know, you have toreply basically all of that as a130901:23:37,080 --> 01:23:39,480part of it, whether you'rewhether you're doing value for131001:23:39,480 --> 01:23:43,560value for you know, for monetaryreasons or not, it always works131101:23:43,560 --> 01:23:47,370better if it's, if it's a roundrobin, it just that's how you131201:23:47,370 --> 01:23:50,940can make it work for yourself.Rogan doesn't have to do that.131301:23:51,570 --> 01:23:55,530He's a different type of show.But for every other podcast I've131401:23:55,530 --> 01:24:00,000been involved in, it's it'sincredibly important. Yeah,131501:24:00,030 --> 01:24:02,730Dave Jones: this this matches upbecause yeah, Foundation says I131601:24:02,730 --> 01:24:06,210firmly believe the attentionbased economy began begin with131701:24:06,210 --> 01:24:09,090one way media where participantslost the ability to openly and131801:24:09,090 --> 01:24:12,570freely conduct discourse withrelevant communities. It's like131901:24:12,660 --> 01:24:16,380the one way media thing becausewhen your open source project132001:24:16,380 --> 01:24:21,450becomes one way, when it's allabout what you can give, right?132101:24:22,080 --> 01:24:24,990It doesn't work anymore. It'snot a value for it's not value132201:24:24,990 --> 01:24:28,620for value. It's not a valueexchange. Now it's just I need132301:24:28,620 --> 01:24:33,660something Give it to me. Now.Yeah, exactly. But when with132401:24:33,660 --> 01:24:37,290this, the puck has to promoteprojects is IT project is always132501:24:37,290 --> 01:24:41,550value for value. And you have,you know, in that includes apple132601:24:41,610 --> 01:24:46,110coming in last week, they theybuilt they built a feature and132701:24:46,110 --> 01:24:49,710then they asked for help. We putit on the GitHub, people132801:24:49,710 --> 01:24:53,850responded. It's akin, it is agive and take, yeah, you know,132901:24:53,850 --> 01:24:57,510your cause we give, they takethey give we take it's133001:24:57,510 --> 01:25:00,630constantly back and forth. Ijust think that The overlap133101:25:00,630 --> 01:25:03,060between value for valuepodcasting and open source133201:25:03,060 --> 01:25:07,050projects is probably a lotbigger than we think it is. I133301:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,990agree. They just look differenton the outside, you know.133401:25:13,830 --> 01:25:18,300Adam Curry: I just jottedsomething down about value for133501:25:18,300 --> 01:25:23,370value. I just want people knowthat a big part of how it works133601:25:23,370 --> 01:25:28,170for me. We're in podcasting,then. But it could also work for133701:25:28,170 --> 01:25:32,460apps I don't know is we do anewsletter before every single133801:25:32,460 --> 01:25:36,450podcast except for this onefunny enough. And that133901:25:36,450 --> 01:25:41,160newsletter is an ask. It's anasked to remember to listen,134001:25:41,520 --> 01:25:46,590remember to support us. And it'sresponsible for 40% of the value134101:25:46,590 --> 01:25:51,810we receive. Just want people torealize that doesn't it's yes,134201:25:51,810 --> 01:25:56,160you have to ask for it in yourpodcast. That's typically where134301:25:56,160 --> 01:26:01,290we thank people in the podcast.But to ask is, it's not134401:26:01,290 --> 01:26:05,820necessarily just in the podcast.I just wrote that down or134501:26:05,820 --> 01:26:08,970something I want to remindeverybody of and to hosting134601:26:08,970 --> 01:26:12,540companies provide emailcapabilities, email lists, I134701:26:12,540 --> 01:26:18,990mean, all this AI talk like withrespect, it's great that your AI134801:26:18,990 --> 01:26:23,460can translate you know, yourpodcast into German with a134901:26:23,460 --> 01:26:27,360German voice notice you neverget a German to English podcast135001:26:27,360 --> 01:26:29,430because we all know that if weheard it, we'd be like, this135101:26:29,430 --> 01:26:30,120sucks.135201:26:32,760 --> 01:26:35,910Dave Jones: It probably sucksjust as much. Yes. Yes,135301:26:35,910 --> 01:26:40,260Adam Curry: exactly. But youknow, so how about where are the135401:26:40,260 --> 01:26:43,920AI discovery tools we now havetranscripts for every podcast135501:26:44,340 --> 01:26:49,050Why can't I say hey AI go findme apart? Why is it only for the135601:26:49,050 --> 01:26:53,460creation side I know this makesno sense to me input a few135701:26:53,460 --> 01:26:56,430parameters get me Get mesomething that'll be interest me135801:26:56,430 --> 01:26:58,020based upon the transcripts135901:26:59,040 --> 01:27:03,210Unknown: Yeah, yeah kind ofstuff. Wow the point Yeah,136001:27:03,270 --> 01:27:04,170should we play song136101:27:05,160 --> 01:27:07,440Dave Jones: I would love to hearso yeah. Okay, so136201:27:07,440 --> 01:27:12,000Adam Curry: this is this is thetrusted that we were just136301:27:12,000 --> 01:27:15,060talking about which apparentlyis part of phantom power136401:27:15,060 --> 01:27:22,020music.io is called Millenniumit's a snappy tune from some136501:27:22,020 --> 01:27:24,450good luck in young men tech goodguys136601:27:38,700 --> 01:27:47,700Unknown: give coming around aone no one's cry just cry with136701:27:56,790 --> 01:28:01,200Jesus one day136801:28:19,470 --> 01:28:21,360right guys all right136901:28:43,050 --> 01:28:46,860never want to see you tonight137001:29:15,660 --> 01:29:24,720All right. So we're not enough137101:30:00,000 --> 01:30:14,760Adam Curry: To the trustedMillennium podcasting 2.0 They137201:30:14,760 --> 01:30:19,800are from sam se hometown in theUK. Oh really? Yes. So they must137301:30:19,800 --> 01:30:26,280be rich. Just just just in casethey aren't pleased. Rewind if137401:30:26,280 --> 01:30:29,190you didn't and boosts them boostthose boys boost them make them137501:30:29,190 --> 01:30:32,760more rich. Yeah. I'm pretty surethey're not rich.137601:30:33,510 --> 01:30:35,610Unknown: That's a good tune inthat cool though. Yeah,137701:30:35,610 --> 01:30:41,850Adam Curry: that's kind of like,old. What is it reminding of? In137801:30:41,850 --> 01:30:43,260excess the137901:30:44,670 --> 01:30:47,430Unknown: little bit? I don'tknow. This is cool. I like it.138001:30:47,670 --> 01:30:48,600It's138101:30:48,600 --> 01:30:53,010Dave Jones: got the you can hearthe egg shaker. Exactly.138201:30:54,330 --> 01:30:59,400Adam Curry: I looked at thenostril wallet Connect. Yeah.138301:31:00,450 --> 01:31:01,290Unknown: I don't get it.138401:31:04,470 --> 01:31:06,930Adam Curry: They put, it seemslike there's just a third. Is138501:31:06,930 --> 01:31:12,420it? Is it just me or is it justanother API to to like a service138601:31:12,420 --> 01:31:14,850in the middle? Am I missingsomething?138701:31:16,050 --> 01:31:18,570Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, no, Idon't think I don't think you're138801:31:18,570 --> 01:31:22,770missing anything. It's like meit just connects so that you can138901:31:22,770 --> 01:31:26,040connect to your own node to139001:31:28,740 --> 01:31:30,660Unknown: Okay, yeah,139101:31:31,140 --> 01:31:36,120Dave Jones: it's it's not No,it's not even worth it.139201:31:38,070 --> 01:31:41,040Adam Curry: It's not worth itlong leave Keisha and we love139301:31:41,040 --> 01:31:43,890our key. Send a few sand rocks.Yes.139401:31:44,310 --> 01:31:49,110Dave Jones: So lightning on thelightning front with l&d. 18 My139501:31:49,110 --> 01:31:51,720understanding is this is whenthey start which they're working139601:31:51,720 --> 01:31:55,680on now. This is when they startbuilding in bolt. 12 Oh, really139701:31:55,680 --> 01:32:00,720now? Yeah, bolt. Well, they'regonna do it in stages, I believe139801:32:01,080 --> 01:32:04,530is my understanding. Based on onthe we139901:32:04,530 --> 01:32:06,690Adam Curry: always we alwaysthought we'd live to see the day140001:32:06,690 --> 01:32:08,610that bolt 2012 came to light.140101:32:09,720 --> 01:32:13,350Dave Jones: Yeah, I thinktaproot through them much more140201:32:13,380 --> 01:32:17,850curveball. I'm talking aboutlightning labs and l&d. I think140301:32:19,560 --> 01:32:22,530taproot through them a lot ofcurveballs. So when they went to140401:32:22,530 --> 01:32:25,500tapri channels, what Iunderstand and also what threw140501:32:25,500 --> 01:32:30,240them curveballs is the fees fromthe mempool got so high that140601:32:30,240 --> 01:32:35,610these that the Yeah, dozen or sobugs that were causing force140701:32:35,610 --> 01:32:38,070close force closing of channelsare140801:32:38,340 --> 01:32:41,070Adam Curry: making everybodymore everyone was becoming poor.140901:32:43,620 --> 01:32:46,290Dave Jones: They had to stop andsay, Okay, let's let's go back141001:32:46,290 --> 01:32:49,500and actually fix this. So like alot of the stuff that's been141101:32:49,500 --> 01:32:53,370going on the last really threemonths on the lightning on the141201:32:53,370 --> 01:33:00,510l&d developer mailing list hasbeen all about. That has been141301:33:00,510 --> 01:33:03,660all about trying to solve theseforce close issues, and a lot of141401:33:03,660 --> 01:33:09,600it has got to do with justthings getting channel. Things141501:33:09,600 --> 01:33:13,950internal to Elling to l&dGetting out of sync. Yeah. And141601:33:13,950 --> 01:33:19,260then l&d gets into a state whereit it's basically it's afraid of141701:33:19,260 --> 01:33:21,810doing something wrong. And so itjust forced closes the channel,141801:33:22,230 --> 01:33:25,800right, and thinking, Okay, well,we need to get this back in141901:33:25,800 --> 01:33:29,520order. And they've, they'vereally fixed a lot of that142001:33:29,520 --> 01:33:33,090stuff. To my understanding,there's still a few things that142101:33:33,090 --> 01:33:37,350can cause it to happen. But mostof the egregious ones I think,142201:33:37,350 --> 01:33:41,760have been fixed. So I think inin my understanding is in 18,142301:33:41,760 --> 01:33:44,520we're gonna they're gonna starton Bolt 12 If we can ever get to142401:33:44,520 --> 01:33:51,300a stable Bolt 12 implementation.Honestly, life life changes to142501:33:51,300 --> 01:33:54,750be better life changes, itreally will hate you because142601:33:54,750 --> 01:33:57,540then you have open invoices, andyou don't have to worry. The key142701:33:57,540 --> 01:33:59,910sin was a hack from thebeginning. It's a beautiful142801:33:59,910 --> 01:34:01,740hack, but it is high. Yeah, just142901:34:01,740 --> 01:34:04,860Adam Curry: open invoice it justhere's one invoice reuse as143001:34:04,860 --> 01:34:08,340often as you want for whateveryou want. Yeah, which seems so143101:34:08,340 --> 01:34:14,280logical. Yeah. Like, why wouldyou restrict the amount of money143201:34:14,280 --> 01:34:16,500you can receive? please do sendme money.143301:34:17,670 --> 01:34:22,080Dave Jones: Yeah, the, theinvoice thing is, is the invoice143401:34:22,080 --> 01:34:24,360thing always it never made awhole lot of sense. Because it143501:34:24,360 --> 01:34:27,300just means I can't make I can'tsend you money into you. Like I143601:34:27,300 --> 01:34:30,090can go to the bank and depositmoney in your account. Yeah,143701:34:30,300 --> 01:34:32,610yeah. They'll let me do that allday. I don't have to have your143801:34:32,610 --> 01:34:33,240permission.143901:34:33,270 --> 01:34:35,730Adam Curry: You can send a Venmoto somebody just having their144001:34:35,730 --> 01:34:37,710address. Boom, it's done. Yeah,144101:34:37,710 --> 01:34:39,930Dave Jones: and nothing elseworks where I have to allow you144201:34:39,930 --> 01:34:41,040to give me money for now.144301:34:42,150 --> 01:34:44,910Adam Curry: Yeah, that's one ofthe big confusing parts for144401:34:44,910 --> 01:34:47,520people. Quite honestly, whenthey're like, wait, I have to144501:34:47,520 --> 01:34:49,950fill up my wallet. I have tocreate an invoice and then I144601:34:49,950 --> 01:34:52,710have to copy that invoice andthen pay this weird.144701:34:53,940 --> 01:34:56,280Dave Jones: So there's thisfunny this is funny story about144801:34:56,310 --> 01:35:00,570my uncle. He's passed away now.He's just he was Is this clever144901:35:00,570 --> 01:35:04,770guy? And he's like countryclever, you know, like, he lives145001:35:04,770 --> 01:35:10,560up, lived up North Alabama andmiddle of nowhere. So he a sold145101:35:10,560 --> 01:35:13,470this guy, something I forgotwhat it was is like a car or145201:35:13,470 --> 01:35:18,720something. They got paid him,paid him for it. Maybe it's gone145301:35:18,720 --> 01:35:21,390or something sold in, he paidhim for a game, he wrote a145401:35:21,390 --> 01:35:25,620check. So he goes to the gasbank to cash this check. And145501:35:25,620 --> 01:35:29,700they say the tellers like I'msorry, he doesn't have enough145601:35:29,700 --> 01:35:32,100funds. We can't get in hisaccount. We can't cash the145701:35:32,100 --> 01:35:36,450check. So those checks, likeminimum 100 bucks or something.145801:35:36,510 --> 01:35:41,910Yeah. And he said, Well, howmuch does he have in his145901:35:41,910 --> 01:35:44,100account? She's like, Well, I'msorry, I guess private? I can't146001:35:44,100 --> 01:35:50,010tell you that much. I can't tellyou that information. So can I146101:35:50,010 --> 01:35:56,280put money in his account? And hewas like, he was like, Well, let146201:35:56,280 --> 01:35:59,370me put $10 in there. So he put$10 in there. And she was like,146301:36:01,680 --> 01:36:04,380she's like, No, and he's like,so he kept putting five and five146401:36:04,380 --> 01:36:08,130bucks in there until the end.They just got it all out. That's146501:36:08,130 --> 01:36:14,880Adam Curry: funny. Yeah. That'sI wonder if you clever. Yeah. I146601:36:14,880 --> 01:36:16,950wonder if because the countryclever US and other guests.146701:36:16,950 --> 01:36:20,910Another good show titled DaveJones. I like that one. Country146801:36:20,910 --> 01:36:24,060clever. That's a good one.Brother, should we thank some146901:36:24,060 --> 01:36:24,450people.147001:36:25,080 --> 01:36:26,040Dave Jones: Oh, let's do it.Yeah,147101:36:26,070 --> 01:36:29,310Adam Curry: let me let me see wewe got a couple of live booths.147201:36:29,310 --> 01:36:36,510Not much. Let me see. We got Oh,let's see. 1234 From November147301:36:36,510 --> 01:36:41,160for Victor X ray. Who says thankyou for your coding. Oh, that's147401:36:41,160 --> 01:36:45,090a new one. Thank you feel you'rewelcome. Short Row of ducks.147501:36:45,090 --> 01:36:47,670Martin Linda's code. He's back.Haven't heard from him from a147601:36:47,670 --> 01:36:51,990while. two to two. I have apodcast called pen meets paper147701:36:52,020 --> 01:36:55,080in Swedish and English but Iwant to check remarkable gadget.147801:36:55,380 --> 01:36:58,980Yes. Oh, listen to this podcastnow that I've already bought147901:36:58,980 --> 01:37:04,050one. Hopefully I bought theright thing. Joe Martin Hello,148001:37:04,050 --> 01:37:08,280Joe Martin. He's listening infrom Rainy England finally free148101:37:08,280 --> 01:37:12,420on a Friday night. 2100 SATsThank you, brother. No gig. No148201:37:12,420 --> 01:37:17,340gig on a Friday night. JoeMartin. You know the I think the148301:37:17,370 --> 01:37:22,980premiere the first wallet switchwe we performed on this show was148401:37:22,980 --> 01:37:24,360Joe Martin show. Joe Martin148501:37:24,360 --> 01:37:27,090Unknown: saw high gravity.That's right.148601:37:27,990 --> 01:37:30,960Adam Curry: There's MartinLinden. koge Linda's cog again148701:37:30,960 --> 01:37:35,2801111 row of sticks. I wanted totop of my wallet but found out148801:37:35,280 --> 01:37:37,800that Alby is doing maintenanceregarding the credit card148901:37:37,800 --> 01:37:43,890option. I'm sorry to hear that.Salty Crayon 2222. How do you149001:37:43,890 --> 01:37:46,410board room sorry for the emailAdam didn't realize it was time149101:37:46,410 --> 01:37:50,010for hot namespace day gopodcasting. He was emailing me149201:37:50,010 --> 01:37:54,480when I'm trying to help themout. I had I did my podcast with149301:37:54,480 --> 01:37:55,170Jimmy V.149401:37:56,070 --> 01:37:59,130Unknown: About the loss ofcompressions all this Yes. You149501:37:59,130 --> 01:38:01,110Adam Curry: know, it turned outreally good. It was it was you149601:38:01,110 --> 01:38:05,490know, we didn't really resolvemuch. But it was it was a fun149701:38:05,490 --> 01:38:09,180conversation. We both had ourproduct this guy is a real force149801:38:09,180 --> 01:38:12,540to be reckoned with. And hereally is very excited about149901:38:12,540 --> 01:38:15,150value for value and he wants toonboard a whole bunch of his by150001:38:15,150 --> 01:38:18,870his onboarding a whole bunch ofhis buddies and it was actually150101:38:18,870 --> 01:38:21,750turned out to be a really niceconversation. We got a lot of150201:38:21,750 --> 01:38:22,050fun150301:38:22,080 --> 01:38:24,840Dave Jones: did it go like this?You're wrecking my music and150401:38:24,840 --> 01:38:27,570you're like no I'm not Yeah,that would be150501:38:27,570 --> 01:38:33,930Adam Curry: the short version.Okay. I think he was surprised150601:38:33,930 --> 01:38:36,360that I showed up and he was likeI can't believe so what do you150701:38:36,360 --> 01:38:41,250mean that we had an agreementthis is a time here I am via so150801:38:41,250 --> 01:38:47,190anyway he's a good guy he's he'sgonna be very important in in150901:38:47,190 --> 01:38:53,280the in the value verse and Ihave been trying to trying to151001:38:53,280 --> 01:38:58,050work on make it the problem ishis songs sound different than151101:38:58,050 --> 01:39:01,890someone else's songs you knowhis volume mastering a different151201:39:01,890 --> 01:39:05,250someone else. It's all verydifferent. So there's somewhere151301:39:05,280 --> 01:39:08,970you have to have a kind of amiddle of so that it all sounds151401:39:08,970 --> 01:39:12,720good enough. That's just that'sjust the way it is. So I think151501:39:12,720 --> 01:39:13,830we had a good understanding.151601:39:14,220 --> 01:39:17,340Unknown: So his last name is v.So yes, V.151701:39:17,880 --> 01:39:22,800Adam Curry: What more do youneed 45,678 from Dred Scott pre151801:39:22,800 --> 01:39:28,260show boost boost he says boostThank you. Thank you and let me151901:39:28,260 --> 01:39:34,620see. Yeah, so this is see thisis an example this is fountain152001:39:37,020 --> 01:39:41,490Oh, no, I'm sorry. It looks likeI was put into a Jimmy V put me152101:39:41,490 --> 01:39:43,920in his value block. I'll put usin the value block. There you152201:39:43,920 --> 01:39:47,130go. Oh, that was from theinterview. Oh, cool. I'll read152301:39:47,130 --> 01:39:50,970this then. 1000 SATs from saltycrayon to outside in with Jimmy152401:39:50,970 --> 01:39:54,120V episode to appreciate thefeedback. Adam and Jimmy are152501:39:54,120 --> 01:39:57,840still tweaking this thisconsulta crayon. His levels,152601:39:58,710 --> 01:40:01,170shot to crayons, great heat.plays everything uncompressed152701:40:01,170 --> 01:40:03,150yeah that's not the kind of showI want to make I have a little152801:40:03,150 --> 01:40:08,370more high energy and so he askedfor some feedback so I'm helping152901:40:08,370 --> 01:40:11,670him with that Cameron also 3333Thanks Adam for being on the153001:40:11,670 --> 01:40:15,300show extra sets for mentioninghe likes I love all the Canadian153101:40:15,300 --> 01:40:18,480rockers I'm telling you the allthese guys are coming in the153201:40:18,480 --> 01:40:20,010coming into the remember helix153301:40:21,840 --> 01:40:24,660Dave Jones: helix No Give methey were like153401:40:26,160 --> 01:40:30,510Adam Curry: like helix was heavyman helix I think I played him153501:40:30,510 --> 01:40:36,270on on headbangers ball may saywhy is why is this? Is this what153601:40:36,270 --> 01:40:41,280is going on here to tube? We'reboth going Yeah, I can't get to153701:40:41,280 --> 01:40:42,540you. Oh I see what's going on.153801:40:43,470 --> 01:40:45,270Unknown: You find us there153901:40:46,170 --> 01:40:48,480let me see you too. Oh154001:40:48,480 --> 01:40:49,080Dave Jones: Hair Metal154101:40:49,110 --> 01:40:51,210Unknown: yeah massive massiveHair Metal.154201:40:51,900 --> 01:40:54,630Dave Jones: Yeah, rock you thosethat154301:40:54,630 --> 01:40:57,060Adam Curry: might have had minorsounds like the one that I would154401:40:57,060 --> 01:41:00,990have played. Let me see Whatsong did you play on headbangers154501:41:00,990 --> 01:41:06,990ball? That was probably RockYouYes indeed. Here it is. What is154601:41:06,990 --> 01:41:10,890this heavy metal love? What wasthat? I see how old is this?154701:41:12,450 --> 01:41:16,140BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMP BUMPthat bad bad guy bad guy bad. I154801:41:16,140 --> 01:41:17,550think that from Scandinavia to154901:41:18,840 --> 01:41:24,540Unknown: Yeah baby 93 Nice farmfinance155001:41:27,600 --> 01:41:29,790Adam Curry: and I heard one moreboost come in. We'll just check155101:41:29,790 --> 01:41:35,580that real quick. Hard Hat sayslike boosting Why 12,345 Thank155201:41:35,580 --> 01:41:39,510you hard fat. DAVE What you goton the on the papers in the155301:41:39,510 --> 01:41:40,590booster grams.155401:41:41,010 --> 01:41:44,340Dave Jones: Oh, I got a nice PayPal from the boys and girls Ed155501:41:44,340 --> 01:41:49,710blueberry down. Hello Bluebird.And they sent us $300 Oh, let155601:41:49,710 --> 01:41:55,380Unknown: me get shot Carloblades on am Paula key brothers.155701:41:55,470 --> 01:41:56,370Adam Curry: Very nice. Let's155801:41:56,370 --> 01:41:58,890Dave Jones: go in their messagesgo podcasting from the blueberry155901:41:58,890 --> 01:41:59,730podcasting team.156001:41:59,730 --> 01:42:05,970Adam Curry: Go buy gasoline.Just got 33,333 from Darren Oh,156101:42:05,970 --> 01:42:08,790he says can never use too muchcompression to get the voice156201:42:08,790 --> 01:42:13,200scope podcasting. Darren knowsit's there. Yes, it.156301:42:13,800 --> 01:42:17,010Dave Jones: That would be acomment from him. Yes. Thank156401:42:17,010 --> 01:42:21,510you, blueberry. Appreciate that.Thank you so much. Let's see we156501:42:21,510 --> 01:42:26,850got Oh, we got $55 from JorgeHernandez. Oh, it's thanks for156601:42:26,850 --> 01:42:30,540creating the opportunity toenhance our show. I sent a156701:42:30,540 --> 01:42:34,080private note via email. Not sureif they're being filtered out.156801:42:34,080 --> 01:42:35,520Nope. We got it. I got yournote.156901:42:35,550 --> 01:42:37,980Adam Curry: Yes. Thank you verymuch. Very nice note, Jorge and157001:42:37,980 --> 01:42:40,260Savannah. I think that is fromboth of them.157101:42:41,010 --> 01:42:45,930Dave Jones: Yeah, they're theplug to pleb I think is the Oh,157201:42:45,930 --> 01:42:49,650Unknown: okay. But weappreciate. We appreciate that.157301:42:49,680 --> 01:42:52,980Dave Jones: Thank you, Jorge.Guess Mr. Graham's see. We got157401:42:53,130 --> 01:43:00,420see salty crayon. Sin is 2222.This is how the boardroom from157501:43:00,420 --> 01:43:03,180the northeast corner of TexasHill Country. The Fountain split157601:43:03,210 --> 01:43:06,210percentages are out of whack. Idon't think we157701:43:06,210 --> 01:43:08,520Adam Curry: read that one on thelast show. I think on the read157801:43:08,550 --> 01:43:10,590on election really? Yeah, Ithink so. Think that came in157901:43:10,590 --> 01:43:11,160like oh, did158001:43:11,160 --> 01:43:14,010Dave Jones: that come in after?Yeah. Yeah. Let me see if I can158101:43:14,010 --> 01:43:19,890get to the right. Point. Do weread the I think we read the big158201:43:19,890 --> 01:43:24,330boost for the big Liberty boostfrom blueberry. Yeah, we had. We158301:43:24,330 --> 01:43:28,530did this was last weekend nightboardroom. It was a weekend we158401:43:28,530 --> 01:43:28,680did158501:43:28,680 --> 01:43:31,320Adam Curry: Saturday. Yeah.Yeah, we did Saturday. So yeah.158601:43:32,400 --> 01:43:35,910I'm sorry. Yeah. I should havereminded you. It wasn't a158701:43:35,910 --> 01:43:39,540boardroom app was boardroom notafter dark was boardroom. On the158801:43:39,540 --> 01:43:40,830weekend. In158901:43:40,830 --> 01:43:43,470Unknown: winboard. boardroom injeans. Yep. casual159001:43:43,470 --> 01:43:47,070clothing. Yes, that's right.casual, casual159101:43:47,070 --> 01:43:48,030Dave Jones: Saturdays. Right?159201:43:48,060 --> 01:43:48,660Adam Curry: That's right.159301:43:49,740 --> 01:43:52,380Dave Jones: Okay, here we go.January 28. This is this this?159401:43:52,410 --> 01:43:58,050This is what is an aggregatorapp. And where the this is from159501:43:58,050 --> 01:44:03,210source D over pods is Archie1701 SATs. He said what's that?159601:44:03,210 --> 01:44:07,830What is it he's talking about?He's talking about Rob's from159701:44:07,830 --> 01:44:11,550Lipsense comments. What is anaggregator app? And where? And159801:44:11,550 --> 01:44:14,070where are the stats taken afterApple cut the automatic159901:44:14,070 --> 01:44:18,030downloads? The questions don'tknow the answer to either one of160001:44:18,030 --> 01:44:22,170those sources. They also againwith a 1701 Star Trek boost. He160101:44:22,170 --> 01:44:24,600says I thought Google Chrome wasthe default on Android and160201:44:24,600 --> 01:44:29,220Android had a large market shareof computing. That's true. But160301:44:29,220 --> 01:44:34,620go look at the just go look atthe charts. Archie. Chrome160401:44:34,620 --> 01:44:38,580dominates. I mean, it's not justAndroid. It's desktop. It's it's160501:44:38,670 --> 01:44:42,360I mean, like the numbers are noteven funny. Just just brave160601:44:42,360 --> 01:44:44,520Adam Curry: sharp is cross achrome derivative or does it160701:44:44,520 --> 01:44:45,510show up as brave?160801:44:46,560 --> 01:44:49,470Dave Jones: I think it shows upas brave because they Yeah,160901:44:49,500 --> 01:44:51,570yeah, it's not it's notdetecting the engine. Nothing is161001:44:51,570 --> 01:44:53,280detecting the actual browser.Yeah,161101:44:53,340 --> 01:44:55,920Adam Curry: I like brave Braveis my browser man. I like it.161201:44:56,970 --> 01:44:59,460Dave Jones: And he says, Whatabout Chrome OS? Yeah, I mean,161301:44:59,550 --> 01:45:02,220it's saying Same deal I justdon't if you go look at the161401:45:02,220 --> 01:45:07,110actual numbers it's not it's notjust those pre installs it's161501:45:07,470 --> 01:45:12,930it's legit download market sharememorias podcast Kyron 1234161601:45:12,930 --> 01:45:14,760through fountain he saysappreciate your focus on the161701:45:14,760 --> 01:45:20,010individual Adam 1% of the totalnow plus 40% downloads doesn't161801:45:20,010 --> 01:45:23,610matter on one single bid to me.appreciate all your hard work.161901:45:23,610 --> 01:45:26,340Alex in a tube is where I havebeen directing people who want162001:45:26,340 --> 01:45:29,220to start a video podcast andappreciate you Dave. Thanks.162101:45:30,390 --> 01:45:31,230Thanks, Gary. Yeah,162201:45:31,260 --> 01:45:33,660Adam Curry: I mean that's I'lljust keep hammering that until162301:45:33,660 --> 01:45:36,780the cows come home that it's notabout it's not about the162401:45:36,780 --> 01:45:39,900aggregate didn't no longernecessary to be number one or162501:45:39,900 --> 01:45:44,070top of the list or have the mostdownloads you just need people162601:45:44,070 --> 01:45:46,980to support you that's that'sreally that's the new world that162701:45:46,980 --> 01:45:50,130we live in. That's exactly whatthe value verse musicians are162801:45:50,130 --> 01:45:53,160finding out. I don't need to benumber one I don't need to be162901:45:53,160 --> 01:45:56,940featured by Spotify. I just needmy my people to show up and163001:45:56,940 --> 01:45:58,020support me That's it.163101:46:00,090 --> 01:46:03,810Dave Jones: Sir Brian of London21 948 through cast ematic he163201:46:03,810 --> 01:46:07,830says I had to open pod versesearch for pod paying than wind163301:46:07,830 --> 01:46:11,040back to 34 minutes to boost thismentioned in cast thematic go163401:46:11,040 --> 01:46:14,430apple waiting to hear apples.See waiting to hear apples Apple163501:46:14,430 --> 01:46:20,460pay via PayPal come in. Sure.Thanks, Brian. Appreciate you.163601:46:21,270 --> 01:46:26,640Oh, another follow up 1948 Boostsir Brown of London. He says Sir163701:46:26,640 --> 01:46:29,280Alec saved my butt withprofessional level Python for163801:46:29,280 --> 01:46:34,560hive pod thing writer. Alex Alexsave is saving people's butts is163901:46:34,560 --> 01:46:38,640basically his job title. Yes, nokidding during the day job.164001:46:39,000 --> 01:46:42,510Adam Curry: Oh, you know what? Iprobably good old Alex. He's164101:46:42,510 --> 01:46:46,110probably still in the split forthe live show. Let me say he164201:46:46,110 --> 01:46:47,550must be he must be loving that.164301:46:49,080 --> 01:46:52,440Dave Jones: He's watching thatwatching this as hey,164401:46:52,440 --> 01:46:54,030Adam Curry: I'm doing great heretoday. This is164501:46:58,260 --> 01:47:03,720Dave Jones: Rene Nagy I knowit's hot butcher this guy.164601:47:03,720 --> 01:47:05,730Adam Curry: I love how you saythat everyone loves how you say164701:47:05,730 --> 01:47:07,590that? Pod verse164801:47:09,630 --> 01:47:15,420Dave Jones: says compressionboost. Nice. Thank you, Renee.164901:47:16,410 --> 01:47:20,160Bear, snare Sinha, satchelRichards. The podcast guru says165001:47:20,160 --> 01:47:22,530you guys are doing the Lord'swork. Thank you165101:47:23,010 --> 01:47:24,480Unknown: for trying. Yes,165201:47:24,990 --> 01:47:29,640Dave Jones: that's a call aperson. Dude, person sent a 4096165301:47:30,000 --> 01:47:35,070That's a 4k kill a boost throughbreeze killer boost. Dave in165401:47:35,070 --> 01:47:37,710activity pub, the identity iscontrolled by the server owner165501:47:37,710 --> 01:47:41,490in nostre. The identity iscontrolled by the client. Okay,165601:47:41,760 --> 01:47:46,680he says noster doesn't rely onany one relay to maintain its165701:47:46,680 --> 01:47:50,520decentralization, I can migrateto any relay with my identity165801:47:50,520 --> 01:47:51,090intact.165901:47:52,140 --> 01:47:58,290Adam Curry: Okay, did you seeany of the the session the166001:47:58,290 --> 01:48:03,600session? The Congress says shopswith with the social media166101:48:03,600 --> 01:48:10,860companies and did not Oh my god.It was I actually felt bad for166201:48:10,860 --> 01:48:13,680people like Zuckerberg, youknow, they had the whole room166301:48:13,680 --> 01:48:17,580stacked with people whosechildren had committed suicide,166401:48:17,850 --> 01:48:22,710or bought a meal online that hadfentanyl and died from it that166501:48:22,710 --> 01:48:26,670had been sexually abused. Andliterally like you have blood on166601:48:26,670 --> 01:48:30,120your hands, turn aroundapologize to these people. And166701:48:30,120 --> 01:48:31,980you know, they were all stacked,they had pictures and they're166801:48:31,980 --> 01:48:35,460holding it up pictures of thedead children. It was the most166901:48:35,460 --> 01:48:40,800disgusting display have everseen. Meanwhile, by the way, we167001:48:40,800 --> 01:48:44,700just funding all kinds of actualkilling in sandy areas of the167101:48:44,700 --> 01:48:49,620world. But okay, let's let'sfocus on Facebook and Instagram.167201:48:51,240 --> 01:48:54,750But as I'm watching that I'mconfused. It was all about167301:48:54,750 --> 01:48:58,710section 230. That's basicallywhat it was, of course, and I'm167401:48:58,710 --> 01:49:02,580concluding there's only two waysthis can finally wind up now it167501:49:02,580 --> 01:49:05,100is an election year. So they'redoing this to pressure them.167601:49:05,520 --> 01:49:08,640Everyone wants a backdooreveryone wants an influence,167701:49:08,640 --> 01:49:14,490hey, do keep my account orwhatever heat my post. I can167801:49:14,490 --> 01:49:18,180tell you the end goal is or theend result will be if it's not167901:49:18,180 --> 01:49:22,110now it'll be in five years or 10years, platforms are going to go168001:49:22,110 --> 01:49:27,780away. It won't be worth itanymore. Because either there'll168101:49:27,780 --> 01:49:33,390be so restrictive that I meanbecause they basically want168201:49:33,630 --> 01:49:35,910these people you know theseplatforms to be liable the168301:49:35,910 --> 01:49:38,820saying it's your fault That'syour fault is your fault was not168401:49:38,820 --> 01:49:42,300because it's under Section 230I'm protected. I think that's168501:49:42,300 --> 01:49:46,560going to go away eventually. AndI gotta be honest with you, I168601:49:46,560 --> 01:49:50,820wouldn't cry for a second. Iwant to go back to RSS feeds.168701:49:51,270 --> 01:49:55,440You know, that's what it's goback to RSS feeds, your is your168801:49:55,440 --> 01:49:59,970feed, you're liable for yourfeed. You know the index can168901:50:00,000 --> 01:50:02,580still have an index of feeds,you know, we're not hosting169001:50:02,580 --> 01:50:08,220content. Why wouldn't we need anindex of feeds for blogs? This,169101:50:08,250 --> 01:50:11,670it's a mess. The only other wayyou can do it is everybody has169201:50:11,670 --> 01:50:15,720to have a government ID that isknown that is approved. It's169301:50:15,720 --> 01:50:19,410digital. There's verification.And that's not an American thing169401:50:20,280 --> 01:50:24,660yet. But I just see the writingon the wall, you can put it down169501:50:24,660 --> 01:50:29,790now. You can write it down, thisplatform stuff is going to go169601:50:29,790 --> 01:50:33,210away. It's killing it is. Imean, it's not it's not killing169701:50:33,210 --> 01:50:34,890people, but it's not healthy.169801:50:36,270 --> 01:50:37,410Unknown: It's just not healthy.I169901:50:38,100 --> 01:50:40,770Dave Jones: totally agree. Andthe world will be a better place170001:50:40,770 --> 01:50:41,130for it.170101:50:41,160 --> 01:50:43,320Adam Curry: I think so I thinkso too. And I you know, it's170201:50:43,320 --> 01:50:47,550like, you know, and it may beeven, I think even Apple will170301:50:47,550 --> 01:50:50,820start, you know, Spotify,they'll start to have second170401:50:50,820 --> 01:50:53,400thoughts. It's like, Oh, I'mgetting blamed for this. I'm170501:50:53,400 --> 01:50:55,650getting blamed for that. Hey,170601:50:55,650 --> 01:50:57,720Dave Jones: I've said it beforethe internet was a mistake.170701:51:00,450 --> 01:51:05,880Unknown: It was Yeah, it wasn't.Yeah, probably. It170801:51:05,880 --> 01:51:09,840Dave Jones: was. We've beenwatching we've been as a family170901:51:09,840 --> 01:51:13,470at night. We've been watchingmusicals.171001:51:14,190 --> 01:51:16,110Adam Curry: Oh, we've beenwatching Little House on the171101:51:16,110 --> 01:51:21,240Prairie man. Okay. Have you beenwatching it? I'm an honorary171201:51:21,240 --> 01:51:25,860member of the Little House onthe Prairie community. Now171301:51:25,890 --> 01:51:27,420somehow I got into that.171401:51:28,230 --> 01:51:32,280Dave Jones: In one day. I'll goahead. One day I'll tell you171501:51:32,280 --> 01:51:36,210about. There's an epic, there'sa single episode of Little House171601:51:36,210 --> 01:51:42,000on the Prairie. That taught mewhat being a man really is more171701:51:42,000 --> 01:51:45,510than any other thing. Anybody inmy life was anything else. It171801:51:45,510 --> 01:51:50,340was the bay. It was like, thegreatest example of what true171901:51:50,760 --> 01:51:54,150manhood looks like being a grownup, man. Wow.172001:51:54,420 --> 01:51:59,400Adam Curry: Well, I just want tosay that the lt h o p community172101:51:59,400 --> 01:52:00,840is on the edge of its seat.172201:52:04,260 --> 01:52:07,830Unknown: Oh, LH T. O. P. I gotit wrong. LHC. Okay.172301:52:08,730 --> 01:52:12,000Dave Jones: Well, yeah, we'lltalk we'll talk. All right. I'm172401:52:12,000 --> 01:52:13,740Adam Curry: gonna rememberbecause I want to know, I want172501:52:13,740 --> 01:52:17,160to know what that good. That wasgreat. It was all propaganda, by172601:52:17,160 --> 01:52:19,980the way the entire show was, Ithink was Norman Lear172701:52:19,980 --> 01:52:23,760propaganda. But that's okay. Ifit did that for you, I'm happy.172801:52:26,280 --> 01:52:30,810Dave Jones: No, I mean, noster.Yeah. And understand about the172901:52:30,840 --> 01:52:35,190about the identity, about theidentity thing, that the the173001:52:35,190 --> 01:52:38,010problem the, there's somethere's problems with that173101:52:38,010 --> 01:52:42,900identity, though. And there'sproblem the so if you're, if173201:52:43,710 --> 01:52:49,920there's no secondary keys, soyou can't revoke a key, you just173301:52:49,920 --> 01:52:52,050have to create a whole newidentity. Hmm.173401:52:52,770 --> 01:52:55,350Adam Curry: Wow, I didn't eventhought about that. Because, you173501:52:55,350 --> 01:52:58,710know, I do a lot of encryptedemail and I can revoke a key and173601:52:58,710 --> 01:52:59,940have a new one set up.173701:53:00,630 --> 01:53:05,970Dave Jones: Right. So there's nokey hierarchy. The the issue173801:53:06,000 --> 01:53:09,420yes, you're you're moving,you're moving you're at you can173901:53:09,420 --> 01:53:12,000move your identity from onerelight to another. But in174001:53:12,000 --> 01:53:18,360practice, there's only there'syour your relays are limited to174101:53:18,390 --> 01:53:22,290what you're connected to throughyour app. And that's primarily174201:53:23,580 --> 01:53:28,710let me just say when when Domusgoes away, which is looking like174301:53:28,710 --> 01:53:31,230it will because of all thefunding stuff that he's talking174401:53:31,230 --> 01:53:35,790about the whole all of nostrecollapses. That's just that's174501:53:35,790 --> 01:53:39,660just what's gonna happen. Thesethese are highly centralized174601:53:39,660 --> 01:53:44,640relays. And yes, you you,technically on paper, you can174701:53:44,640 --> 01:53:46,560move from one to another, butthat's not the way it's working174801:53:46,560 --> 01:53:51,000out in practice. Anyway, that's,I don't want to spend too much174901:53:51,000 --> 01:53:53,220time on that, but not understandwhat to do.175001:53:53,340 --> 01:53:55,020Adam Curry: I do have animportant question that just175101:53:55,020 --> 01:54:01,800came in from blueberry 55 555What kind of musical is Dave?175201:54:03,240 --> 01:54:06,930Dave Jones: Oh, oh, I forgot us.Yeah, we're watching musicals.175301:54:06,930 --> 01:54:14,790And I can confidently say this,with like, with full authority175401:54:14,820 --> 01:54:21,570that I've granted to myself. Thegreatest musical of all time. Is175501:54:21,570 --> 01:54:26,370Hello, Dolly. With BarbraStreisand. Wow. There is no175601:54:26,370 --> 01:54:27,240second place.175701:54:27,360 --> 01:54:29,550Adam Curry: Do what do you thinkabout Jesus Christ Superstar?175801:54:30,300 --> 01:54:33,120Dave Jones: haven't seen it yet.It's on the list. My wife made a175901:54:33,120 --> 01:54:38,310list of 104 musicals. And we'regonna we're watching and176001:54:38,310 --> 01:54:40,080Adam Curry: she stopped teachingand she no longer in the176101:54:40,080 --> 01:54:45,390teaching profession. Where doyou find this time?176201:54:47,160 --> 01:54:50,910Dave Jones: We, we've. We'vemade it through a bar so far.176301:54:51,390 --> 01:54:56,220Last Last night we finished AnAmerican in Paris. Gene Kelly.176401:54:56,460 --> 01:54:56,730This176501:54:56,730 --> 01:54:59,700Adam Curry: is this is a secretpassion of mine. I have seen176601:54:59,700 --> 01:55:01,260many musicals on Broadway.176701:55:02,310 --> 01:55:05,220Dave Jones: I love them. I'dnever seen very many musicals.176801:55:05,250 --> 01:55:07,920And then like she startedwatching them and made this176901:55:07,920 --> 01:55:11,460list. And now I'm hooked. It's afact that I think that what177001:55:11,460 --> 01:55:14,910reminded me of this lesson theInternet is a mistake. Like, you177101:55:14,910 --> 01:55:18,570look. And you can, you don'teven have to go back to these177201:55:18,570 --> 01:55:22,470musicals from the 50s and 60s,you can go back to even old TV177301:55:22,470 --> 01:55:27,630shows like The X Files from the90s. And what you notice is like177401:55:27,660 --> 01:55:30,780when you're when you're insomebody's office, their desk177501:55:30,780 --> 01:55:33,690does not have a computer on it.Yeah,177601:55:33,690 --> 01:55:35,430Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And177701:55:35,430 --> 01:55:36,750Dave Jones: it's so satisfying.177801:55:36,780 --> 01:55:38,610Adam Curry: I was watching lastnight, we were watching the177901:55:38,610 --> 01:55:43,950documentary of We Are the WorldUSA for Africa, who have it as178001:55:43,950 --> 01:55:48,690good as 1985. And Lionel Richieis kind of doing most of the178101:55:48,690 --> 01:55:51,810narration as a lot of stuff. Ididn't know. But what was178201:55:51,810 --> 01:55:55,320interesting is they had to getall these artists into the nm178301:55:55,320 --> 01:55:59,730studio all at the same time. Andthere were no cell phones. You178401:55:59,730 --> 01:56:03,450know, there was no email thatyou had to communicate through178501:56:03,450 --> 01:56:06,420managers. They were sendingcassette tapes with the demo out178601:56:06,420 --> 01:56:11,820through FedEx. And then itworked. Well, a lot of them were178701:56:11,820 --> 01:56:15,870at the American Music Awards. Sothey chose that night to after178801:56:15,870 --> 01:56:18,180everyone had their awards. Andthey all took them to the178901:56:18,180 --> 01:56:21,180studio. But it was the samething. Like I mean, I think179001:56:21,180 --> 01:56:24,270those things Smokey Robinson hadone of those, you know, the big179101:56:24,510 --> 01:56:28,380VHS cassette sized cell phones,but otherwise no one had a cell179201:56:28,380 --> 01:56:31,860phone no one had email no onehad even just to get the demo.179301:56:32,040 --> 01:56:35,310Now. It's like hey, I'll shootyou an mp3. Like no, no, here.179401:56:35,310 --> 01:56:39,900They made cassettes. This andthey FedEx the cassettes. It was179501:56:39,930 --> 01:56:40,920it was beautiful. This,179601:56:41,550 --> 01:56:43,230Unknown: Robinson Yeah, it was.179701:56:45,180 --> 01:56:47,670It was so so simple. Back then.179801:56:49,230 --> 01:56:51,420Adam Curry: You will enjoy aBook of Mormon.179901:56:52,440 --> 01:56:56,340Unknown: Book of Mormon. Okay.Fantastic. Fantastic musical.180001:56:57,210 --> 01:56:58,500Okay, write180101:56:58,500 --> 01:57:00,390Dave Jones: that down and makesure that's on the list. The180201:57:00,990 --> 01:57:05,160same book of mormon so wewatched cats the other night180301:57:05,220 --> 01:57:06,210never seen I've never180401:57:06,210 --> 01:57:08,460Adam Curry: seen it was it goodpeople rave about horrible.180501:57:08,460 --> 01:57:10,470Dave Jones: That is the worstpiece of work that's Hall of180601:57:10,470 --> 01:57:12,720garbage I've ever seen. This iswhy180701:57:12,930 --> 01:57:15,180Adam Curry: I've never beencompelled to go see it like180801:57:15,180 --> 01:57:16,740that. I don't think I want to gosee cats.180901:57:17,130 --> 01:57:21,150Dave Jones: Oh my gosh is awful.It's evidently the we didn't181001:57:21,150 --> 01:57:24,150make it through. We made itthrough about 30 minutes and we181101:57:24,150 --> 01:57:27,840were all three of us. Me and mywife and daughter just stared at181201:57:27,840 --> 01:57:30,180each other like no, no. I can'tdo this.181301:57:31,170 --> 01:57:31,680Unknown: Good. Well,181401:57:31,710 --> 01:57:34,260Adam Curry: I want to reportevery every board meeting I want181501:57:34,260 --> 01:57:38,910to report I want the the podsage musical recommendation of181601:57:38,910 --> 01:57:39,360the week.181701:57:40,320 --> 01:57:43,260Unknown: We need a jingle Yeah,sir181801:57:43,260 --> 01:57:46,110Adam Curry: TJ the raffle JeffSmith get on the stick people we181901:57:46,110 --> 01:57:46,770need the jingle.182001:57:48,630 --> 01:57:52,560Dave Jones: Get CSB coming in34,000 sets out and he says that182101:57:52,560 --> 01:57:53,820he fellow white people David182201:57:57,870 --> 01:58:00,180Adam Curry: fellow white peoplemade182301:58:00,180 --> 01:58:02,490Dave Jones: it through shad GPTso we know this we know it's182401:58:02,490 --> 01:58:06,420safe. I have gray blue eyes andI'm passing as local in Northern182501:58:06,420 --> 01:58:09,750Europe including Scandinavia,despite merely being a Polak.182601:58:10,020 --> 01:58:13,650However, if you are if you arean American, or you are182701:58:13,650 --> 01:58:16,230interested in black Americanculture and culture and182801:58:16,230 --> 01:58:19,920experiences in history, then Irecommend podcast no facts which182901:58:21,240 --> 01:58:26,220you can find at www dot movfacts Z with a z.com to get183001:58:26,220 --> 01:58:29,280comprehensive insights that gobeyond surface level commentary.183101:58:29,280 --> 01:58:30,240Yossi SB183201:58:30,270 --> 01:58:32,580Adam Curry: Thank you CSB. Danlove that. That guy's doing183301:58:32,580 --> 01:58:35,580that. He's promoting everyoneelse's podcast. That's so cool.183401:58:35,760 --> 01:58:39,120That's so cool. Very cool.That's really cool that ESP183501:58:39,120 --> 01:58:39,810appreciate it.183601:58:40,440 --> 01:58:42,990Dave Jones: We got somemonthlies. We got pod page183701:58:43,020 --> 01:58:44,250Brendan ever pockets bread183801:58:44,400 --> 01:58:47,610Adam Curry: dollars now withchapters and transcripts on the183901:58:47,640 --> 01:58:50,670pod page. He's pulling thatright in.184001:58:51,510 --> 01:58:53,160Dave Jones: Oh, is that a newfeature? Yeah,184101:58:53,190 --> 01:58:57,450Adam Curry: yes. New says noiseis noise on pod page. Cameron184201:58:57,450 --> 01:59:00,300Dave Jones: Rose $25 Thank you,Cameron. been around long time184301:59:00,300 --> 01:59:03,630appreciate you brother ChadFarrow, the Chief Chief184401:59:03,630 --> 01:59:08,670Marketing Officer of bugs in2.0 $20.20. Thank you, Chad.184501:59:08,700 --> 01:59:13,080Always pleasure. New Media $1.That's Martin Landeskog and184601:59:13,080 --> 01:59:15,750Martin and Mark Graham $1. Thankyou.184701:59:16,710 --> 01:59:18,930Adam Curry: Thank you all somuch. I check the tally coin.184801:59:19,260 --> 01:59:21,930Nothing there of course but incase you want to donate a whole184901:59:21,930 --> 01:59:25,680Bitcoin to the project. Go topodcast index.org down at the185001:59:25,680 --> 01:59:28,890bottom you'll see two red donatebuttons one is for on chain185101:59:28,890 --> 01:59:32,820Bitcoin. The other is for yourFiat fun coupons through Pay185201:59:32,820 --> 01:59:37,200Pal. And of course, we recommendyou go to podcast apps.com Get a185301:59:37,290 --> 01:59:41,370modern podcast app for all kindsof reasons. There's what are we185401:59:41,370 --> 01:59:45,390what are we now on features 2019and 20185501:59:45,900 --> 01:59:47,460Dave Jones: Blend namespacefeature Yeah.185601:59:48,780 --> 01:59:51,000Adam Curry: Who does a lotthere's a lot.185701:59:51,540 --> 01:59:53,670Dave Jones: I happen to be onthe podcast namespace page and I185801:59:53,670 --> 01:59:55,110can't count them. Yeah, wellthen185901:59:55,110 --> 01:59:57,540Adam Curry: Dave is counting.I'm gonna say this set between186001:59:57,540 --> 02:00:02,07017 and 20 and a A lot of theseapps have implemented all of186102:00:02,070 --> 02:00:07,350them. And the one that the onethat we like is V for v. So you186202:00:07,350 --> 02:00:11,520can fill up your, your app, fillit up with some Satoshis. And186302:00:11,520 --> 02:00:16,860boost us and we'll be happy 25Wow. And we'll be happy to happy186402:00:16,860 --> 02:00:20,520to read out your note and thankyou on the show. And, as always,186502:00:21,750 --> 02:00:26,010excuse me, this is a value forvalue project, podcasting. 2.0186602:00:26,010 --> 02:00:28,590Everything we do you gotpodcasting or saw social, we got186702:00:28,590 --> 02:00:33,420the website. We've got the API.We got the namespace. We're here186802:00:33,420 --> 02:00:36,870for you with the podcast and theboard meeting every single week.186902:00:36,870 --> 02:00:39,960And we appreciate all our boardmembers who showed up in the in187002:00:39,960 --> 02:00:43,470the chat, which you can accessto some of these apps as well.187102:00:44,880 --> 02:00:49,020Or how do we even promote thechat? How do people even know to187202:00:49,020 --> 02:00:53,880go there? Do we even promote it?To the IRC chat? Yeah, to the187302:00:53,880 --> 02:00:56,100IRC chat? Well, that's whereeveryone is. I think the IRC187402:00:56,100 --> 02:00:56,580chat you know,187502:00:56,580 --> 02:00:58,590Dave Jones: what's funny is Ikeep tweeting and tweeting out187602:00:58,590 --> 02:01:02,130the same chat link from like,literally five months ago.187702:01:02,160 --> 02:01:04,770Adam Curry: And that's the, thenostril chat.187802:01:05,250 --> 02:01:09,420Dave Jones: That's the MK Ultrachat. That That thing's just187902:01:09,420 --> 02:01:12,030been running for months. I haveno idea what kind of craziness188002:01:12,030 --> 02:01:13,170is going on in that chat.188102:01:13,230 --> 02:01:14,490Adam Curry: I don't think anyoneuses it.188202:01:15,900 --> 02:01:20,310Dave Jones: Let's go check out.There might be all sorts of188302:01:20,310 --> 02:01:21,300horrible Shiny,188402:01:21,330 --> 02:01:24,990Unknown: shiny stuff. Probably.That's possible. See, chat.188502:01:25,350 --> 02:01:27,120Adam Curry: I wonder if anyone'sever in there. That's188602:01:27,120 --> 02:01:27,690interesting.188702:01:28,590 --> 02:01:31,530Dave Jones: Chris, you know,from five days ago, no, he's188802:01:31,530 --> 02:01:33,660talking about nip 47 Yourwallet.188902:01:35,730 --> 02:01:37,590Adam Curry: Wallet Connect.There you go. There's stuff in189002:01:37,590 --> 02:01:40,110there. All right, everybody. Welook forward to seeing you next189102:01:40,110 --> 02:01:44,400week. Same time, same IRCchannel. And of course, we'll be189202:01:44,400 --> 02:01:48,300on the stream. Get them onpodcast app, it will notify you189302:01:48,300 --> 02:01:51,420when we go live and make sure tosend us a boost. We're happy to189402:01:51,420 --> 02:01:53,700send you a boost back brotherDave, thank you so much, man.189502:01:53,700 --> 02:01:56,490It's always the people thatdon't maybe don't realize it.189602:01:56,490 --> 02:02:00,330But this is literally the onlytime we talk. Yes.189702:02:01,170 --> 02:02:03,390Dave Jones: There's a few textsduring the week but this is when189802:02:03,390 --> 02:02:04,200we talk pretty189902:02:04,200 --> 02:02:07,710Adam Curry: much it so this is atrue true board meeting. Thank190002:02:07,710 --> 02:02:10,320you all everybody. We will seeyou next week. That concludes190102:02:10,320 --> 02:02:14,220the board meeting with all ofour resolutions. The meeting190202:02:14,220 --> 02:02:16,320minutes will be in thetranscript See you next Friday.190302:02:16,320 --> 02:02:17,790Everybody take care bye bye.190402:02:34,290 --> 02:02:38,850Unknown: You have been listeningto podcasting 2.0 Visit podcast190502:02:38,880 --> 02:02:41,610index.org for more information.190602:02:44,070 --> 02:02:46,380So that's happening