Episode 164: Let's Get Local

100:00:00,870 --> 00:00:05,910Adam Curry: podcasting 2.0 forJanuary 19 2024, episode 164200:00:06,030 --> 00:00:11,520Let's get local. Well helloeverybody welcome once again to300:00:11,520 --> 00:00:18,510the official board meeting a5.0. Except no alternatives. If400:00:18,510 --> 00:00:21,450you want to know what's going onin podcasting, it's happening500:00:21,450 --> 00:00:24,330right here. While it's happeninghere. It's happening in podcast600:00:24,330 --> 00:00:27,120index.org It's happening on thenamespace. It's happening in700:00:27,120 --> 00:00:30,900podcasts index dot social, weare the only boardroom that800:00:30,900 --> 00:00:34,560moves in phases. I'm Adam curryhere in the heart of the Texas900:00:34,560 --> 00:00:37,410Hill Country and in Alabama, theman who builds bridges for1000:00:37,410 --> 00:00:40,380anyone to cross say hello to myfriend on the other end the one1100:00:40,380 --> 00:00:42,090and only Mr. Day1200:00:51,120 --> 00:00:54,540you fired up today. Oh, come on.I mean, we have to differentiate1300:00:54,540 --> 00:00:57,990ourselves from all these otherpodcasts about podcasts.1400:00:58,500 --> 00:01:01,800Dave Jones: Yeah, this startsoff, you know. Hey,1500:01:01,950 --> 00:01:06,030Adam Curry: hey, welcome.Welcome your way. Well, how was1600:01:06,090 --> 00:01:11,490How was your week? Exactly? Hey,how was your week? Yeah. Hey,1700:01:11,490 --> 00:01:13,830are you in the podcast Hall ofFame yet? Dave Jones?1800:01:14,430 --> 00:01:17,400Dave Jones: Not yet. Youshouldn't be should be. I've got1900:01:17,400 --> 00:01:18,030another 10 years2000:01:18,210 --> 00:01:20,430Adam Curry: in the future Hallof Fame. You should you totally2100:01:20,430 --> 00:01:21,090belong there.2200:01:21,300 --> 00:01:23,880Dave Jones: Totally waste saysyou're not Eric. PP says we're2300:01:23,880 --> 00:01:24,660not lit. Oh,2400:01:24,660 --> 00:01:27,480Adam Curry: we're not lit. Youknow why? Because I didn't hit2500:01:27,480 --> 00:01:33,600the lit. Oh, that's why. Sorryabout how that works. I was2600:01:33,600 --> 00:01:36,660distracted by all the awesomemusic and that's what it was2700:01:36,660 --> 00:01:37,290when I second2800:01:37,530 --> 00:01:39,810Dave Jones: your your pet. Yourstatus is still pending.2900:01:39,840 --> 00:01:42,780Adam Curry: I know. I know. I'ma pending full. I'm a pending3000:01:42,780 --> 00:01:45,210fool. Okay. No wonder3100:01:45,209 --> 00:01:49,619Dave Jones: I didn't get I'msorry, the AP bridge.3200:01:50,010 --> 00:01:54,030Adam Curry: I suck. I suck thecam. Sorry. It should be working3300:01:54,030 --> 00:01:55,620now. I'm sorry. I'm sorry.3400:01:55,650 --> 00:01:56,760Dave Jones: We keep piling on.3500:01:57,930 --> 00:02:02,040Adam Curry: That's the worst. Ithappens at least once a month.3600:02:02,730 --> 00:02:05,970Once a month is happens. I mean,there's so many things to think3700:02:05,970 --> 00:02:11,490of. No, I gotta connect thesplit kit. I gotta set the new.3800:02:13,290 --> 00:02:16,950Set the right title on thestreaming software. I've got to3900:02:16,950 --> 00:02:20,970make sure I'm not jumping in onpeople who are just late on the4000:02:20,970 --> 00:02:25,380stream. So many things to thinkof4100:02:25,380 --> 00:02:26,850Dave Jones: our job. You have ahard job4200:02:26,850 --> 00:02:31,200Adam Curry: and I wouldn't saythat's true. At all. It's not4300:02:31,200 --> 00:02:35,610even a job. I've for 16 years.I've not had a job. I just I4400:02:35,610 --> 00:02:37,230just do I have a calling.4500:02:38,460 --> 00:02:41,100Dave Jones: Oh, what is not ahobby? No,4600:02:41,310 --> 00:02:43,650Adam Curry: no, it's a calling.It's a calling. It's a call4700:02:43,650 --> 00:02:48,450Hello boardroom. We are live andlit. Which means everybody is in4800:02:48,450 --> 00:02:52,290the if you're if you're a partof podcasting 2.0 Hopefully you4900:02:52,290 --> 00:02:55,140have an app that to bring youinto the boardroom or you know5000:02:55,140 --> 00:02:56,670what we're talking about was5100:03:00,240 --> 00:03:01,560Dave Jones: yesterday only saton a booster.5200:03:02,610 --> 00:03:04,530Adam Curry: Oh, that felt good.5300:03:07,290 --> 00:03:12,090Dave Jones: Let me let me giveyou give you an update from the5400:03:12,750 --> 00:03:16,740what would you call this the thebrave new world? Oh, there we5500:03:16,740 --> 00:03:20,880go. I see. We're okay. The bravenew world of what the brave new5600:03:20,880 --> 00:03:26,160world of all electric heat. Oh,feels directly in our homes5700:03:26,160 --> 00:03:28,140anymore. Yeah,5800:03:28,140 --> 00:03:30,180Adam Curry: Alex, what is it? Imean, you might as well be5900:03:30,180 --> 00:03:32,670mining Bitcoin, probably. It6000:03:32,759 --> 00:03:38,219Dave Jones: blows chunks. Imean, it is not fun. So, the6100:03:38,249 --> 00:03:39,929Burkman Birmingham, Alabama.6200:03:40,170 --> 00:03:43,380Adam Curry: Now, what did whatwe had 11 degrees. past couple6300:03:43,380 --> 00:03:44,940of days in Texas. What did youhave?6400:03:45,630 --> 00:03:52,080Dave Jones: So rough, roughlythe same? We had 13 on Tuesday6500:03:52,080 --> 00:03:58,800morning. 13 we had 13 onTuesday. So silver 15. On6600:03:58,800 --> 00:04:04,860Tuesday, we had 13 on Wednesday.Yeah. We get one day of of warm6700:04:04,860 --> 00:04:10,740up. And now tomorrow morning.It's going to be again 15 Yeah,6800:04:10,740 --> 00:04:13,590we get the sun in anothermorning in the morning after6900:04:13,590 --> 00:04:18,630that is going to be again 15degrees. So, you know, our our7000:04:18,630 --> 00:04:20,520house is like 130 years old.7100:04:21,149 --> 00:04:22,319Adam Curry: I'm sorry to hearthat.7200:04:23,670 --> 00:04:26,400Dave Jones: It's the bones ofthis house are fantastic. I7300:04:26,400 --> 00:04:30,330mean, like, you know, it I mean,it's every bit the sturdy, you7400:04:30,330 --> 00:04:33,180know, thing that you would thinkit is? But there's not a lick of7500:04:33,180 --> 00:04:38,820insulation anywhere. And right,right, right. The so we went to7600:04:39,360 --> 00:04:43,470these mini split, like multihead mini split units about five7700:04:43,470 --> 00:04:44,550years ago, multi7800:04:44,550 --> 00:04:47,430Adam Curry: head mini splitunits. Is that a sex toy? I'm7900:04:47,430 --> 00:04:48,120not sure what that8000:04:48,120 --> 00:04:52,140Dave Jones: is. It can bedepends on how you use it. What8100:04:52,140 --> 00:04:54,690exactly a little higher off theground to sit on but I mean, you8200:04:54,690 --> 00:04:57,960could you can make it work ifyou really want it. Okay, but8300:04:57,990 --> 00:05:01,290So, do you know what is theminimum Blood unit is basically8400:05:01,320 --> 00:05:06,900a it's a heat pump, but it hasyou see these things all over?8500:05:07,080 --> 00:05:10,200Well, they're very popular now.But you see them all over Japan?8600:05:10,560 --> 00:05:10,770Well,8700:05:10,770 --> 00:05:13,380Adam Curry: the heat pumps arethe are the new climate change8800:05:13,380 --> 00:05:14,850mitigation technology?8900:05:15,360 --> 00:05:17,760Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. Your pureelectric, you know, all electric9000:05:17,760 --> 00:05:19,320heat. Yeah. And they9100:05:19,320 --> 00:05:22,050Adam Curry: basically don't workis what I keep hearing. Well,9200:05:22,080 --> 00:05:24,960Dave Jones: you're, so we'regood. And because we, the way9300:05:24,960 --> 00:05:29,430this thing works is you haveheads in each head and each head9400:05:29,430 --> 00:05:33,630unit in each room. And there's,there's like zones, you know,9500:05:33,660 --> 00:05:36,300right. So you can have differentzones be different temperatures9600:05:36,300 --> 00:05:40,020and each, so the four might havefour head units attached to one9700:05:40,020 --> 00:05:45,690outside compressor into thecompressor outside. And it's a9800:05:45,690 --> 00:05:48,480it's air conditioning during thesummer heat during the winter.9900:05:48,480 --> 00:05:50,490And all it does, it's got athing called a four way10000:05:50,490 --> 00:05:54,990reversing valve. So during thewinter, instead of taking the10100:05:54,990 --> 00:05:58,350heat out of your house, it takesthe heat out from outside and10200:05:58,350 --> 00:06:01,470dumps it into your house. It's agreat, it's a great concept and10300:06:01,470 --> 00:06:05,460it's during the summer, it savesus hundreds of dollars a month,10400:06:05,520 --> 00:06:11,820right? The problem is, usuallyif you think it through, you're10500:06:11,820 --> 00:06:16,230taking the heat from outside soyour your inside coil in in a10600:06:16,230 --> 00:06:21,180heat situation, your inside coilin the unit in your house, is10700:06:21,180 --> 00:06:26,730now you know, 140 degrees. Youroutside unit is now freezing is10800:06:26,730 --> 00:06:31,020now dumping all the cold out.And so it's going to it's going10900:06:31,020 --> 00:06:35,220to ice up and freeze. So it hasto go through a defrost cycle a11000:06:35,940 --> 00:06:38,910couple of times an hour and whenthat happens ever the whole11100:06:38,910 --> 00:06:42,600thing shuts off. Yeah, itreverses itself back to air11200:06:42,600 --> 00:06:47,280conditioning mode to heat theoutside coil to melt the ice11300:06:48,120 --> 00:06:51,630then switches itself back toheat mode and begins to function11400:06:51,630 --> 00:06:57,060like a heater again. Yeah, thisthis is this 10 to 15 minutes of11500:06:57,060 --> 00:07:01,380defrost cycle in an old housewith no insulation. Yes, socks11600:07:02,010 --> 00:07:05,430is a killer, especially whenyou're winning. So if you're11700:07:05,430 --> 00:07:10,650down if you're like, we're gooddown to like 30 about 3011800:07:10,650 --> 00:07:17,910degrees. It be lower than 30 itstarts to drop off. Then if you11900:07:17,910 --> 00:07:21,540get into the teens, you'retoast. Yeah, I mean like I hope12000:07:21,540 --> 00:07:22,380they're not toast12100:07:22,380 --> 00:07:22,830Adam Curry: actually,12200:07:22,860 --> 00:07:27,600Dave Jones: you're you're notfrozen popsicle. I woke up so12300:07:27,600 --> 00:07:30,540we're in they run all the timeconstantly. We're running space12400:07:30,540 --> 00:07:36,240heaters. My power bill is like$35 a day right now. Wow. And I12500:07:36,240 --> 00:07:40,800woke up Wednesday and ourbedroom was like 48 degrees. You12600:07:40,800 --> 00:07:43,950Adam Curry: know it is you couldjust be a real man and heat your12700:07:43,950 --> 00:07:48,690house with 17 Terra hash ofBitcoin mining power Yeah, it12800:07:48,690 --> 00:07:51,120Dave Jones: would only cost me$28,000 No.12900:07:51,420 --> 00:07:56,100Adam Curry: Well we have I thinkwe have $9 a kilowatt 99 nine13000:07:56,100 --> 00:08:02,550cents a kilowatt hour. So I havethe miners in the garage and the13100:08:02,550 --> 00:08:05,250garage has been okay that meanwithout it would have been13200:08:05,250 --> 00:08:09,630freezing and so that's how Iheat the garage and in the13300:08:09,630 --> 00:08:15,330summer the garage is really warmit's really tasty. But we have a13400:08:15,330 --> 00:08:18,720traditional H vac system and italso does not perform very well13500:08:18,720 --> 00:08:24,150under 15 degrees then you haveto put in on the fan has to be13600:08:24,150 --> 00:08:29,370on constantly it starts to makethis the sound the compressor13700:08:29,670 --> 00:08:34,290makes this weird sound and it'sapparently a good brand unit and13800:08:34,290 --> 00:08:36,840I've had the guy overhead Iremember last winter I had him13900:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,870over and he said oh yeah No theyjust don't work well under 1514000:08:39,870 --> 00:08:41,220degrees so what's the point14100:08:42,059 --> 00:08:45,209Dave Jones: now is yours a gasfurnace or is it he pulled its14200:08:45,209 --> 00:08:46,769heat was that with gas backup?14300:08:46,980 --> 00:08:54,060Adam Curry: Yeah well with gasbackup yes and we do have a14400:08:54,810 --> 00:08:59,130appropriate well propane not gaswe have a propane fireplace so14500:08:59,130 --> 00:09:01,650that heats up the most of thehouse because it's all open14600:09:01,650 --> 00:09:04,650floor plan that he's the housenice yeah that's okay we only14700:09:04,650 --> 00:09:09,600had one one day where you knowwe woke up and it was 66 which14800:09:09,600 --> 00:09:12,210is the temperature we have andwe sleep and then it went down14900:09:12,210 --> 00:09:19,350to 6360s are going down yeahgoing back up again. And then15000:09:19,350 --> 00:09:19,860yeah15100:09:20,850 --> 00:09:23,910Dave Jones: going back down intothe teens again and this couple15200:09:23,910 --> 00:09:27,510of days and I wake up thismorning and the powers going15300:09:27,510 --> 00:09:31,560nuts and lights going on and offthing of you know the that cycle15400:09:31,560 --> 00:09:35,760issue they've been here foreverfinally just finally got an A15500:09:35,760 --> 00:09:39,510power county guy to come outtoday is World squirrel on the15600:09:39,510 --> 00:09:46,290line know that they found a badneutral to the transformer. So15700:09:46,320 --> 00:09:49,080yeah, he said they said itshould be good to go right now15800:09:49,080 --> 00:09:52,230because I was like, Oh man, ifwe if we lose power, We're so15900:09:52,230 --> 00:09:53,790screwed. You know? Well,16000:09:53,790 --> 00:09:55,740Adam Curry: that's why I havefossil16100:09:55,740 --> 00:09:58,230Dave Jones: fuel any day of theweek. Yeah. Now please16200:09:58,680 --> 00:10:01,830Adam Curry: know it's a scam.You know, they they they say oh,16300:10:01,830 --> 00:10:04,890it's gonna be freezing rain Isaw no rain no precipitation at16400:10:04,890 --> 00:10:07,230all I said this is not comingand of course it didn't but they16500:10:07,230 --> 00:10:13,980jacked up the prices. So yeah,and and we have a generator and16600:10:13,980 --> 00:10:16,200of course you know thegenerators to ensure that your16700:10:16,200 --> 00:10:20,730power pretty much never goes outever again which is what it did16800:10:20,940 --> 00:10:24,390in power didn't go out to thegenerator just sitting there and16900:10:24,390 --> 00:10:26,910waiting and waiting for it andyou know for the big Apocalypse17000:10:26,940 --> 00:10:33,060it didn't come. But that's okay.It was nice and toasty inside. I17100:10:33,060 --> 00:10:35,940eked out a booster gram ball,which I hadn't done in over a17200:10:35,940 --> 00:10:38,040week, which I was really happyabout.17300:10:38,460 --> 00:10:42,060Dave Jones: Congratulations. Itmade me smile to see a drop.17400:10:42,089 --> 00:10:44,249Adam Curry: Did you Did youlisten to what he just watched17500:10:44,249 --> 00:10:46,229it drop? No, I just watched yourdrop17600:10:46,230 --> 00:10:47,070Dave Jones: and then a windabout17700:10:49,920 --> 00:10:51,810Adam Curry: something productivewith your17800:10:53,040 --> 00:10:55,830Dave Jones: resume I can ofspray foam insulation trying to17900:10:56,520 --> 00:10:57,180not die.18000:10:59,130 --> 00:11:02,010Adam Curry: Anyway, there wasall kinds of stuff going on. I18100:11:02,010 --> 00:11:06,660think the split kids databaseprovider had some issue and it18200:11:06,660 --> 00:11:08,640was very hard troubleshootingeverything. I feel like18300:11:08,640 --> 00:11:11,040Dave Jones: that's going on, youknow, code database on the split18400:11:11,040 --> 00:11:13,230kit problem. Yeah, yeah, it18500:11:13,230 --> 00:11:15,870Adam Curry: came back up. Cameback. Okay. It worked out. Okay.18600:11:16,140 --> 00:11:19,560But just speaking. What are wedrinking show beer.18700:11:20,099 --> 00:11:23,879Dave Jones: Oh, this? No, not atlunch break? No, this is a18800:11:23,909 --> 00:11:24,659mineral water.18900:11:25,080 --> 00:11:25,920Adam Curry: Yeah, what kind?What's19000:11:25,920 --> 00:11:30,600Dave Jones: the calorie free? Isa polar seltzer does have19100:11:30,600 --> 00:11:35,250natural flavors. It has noflavors. It says its premium and19200:11:35,250 --> 00:11:39,810naturally calorie free. This isthe flavor of this is original19300:11:40,799 --> 00:11:42,839Adam Curry: Jazz, but doesn'thave the ingredients natural19400:11:42,839 --> 00:11:45,899flavors, because this is thescam that I'm not okay, because19500:11:45,899 --> 00:11:47,759that's anything but naturalflavors. And19600:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,630Dave Jones: the ingredients saycarbonated water pay go? Yeah.19700:11:51,690 --> 00:11:52,350And19800:11:52,950 --> 00:11:56,310Adam Curry: following along withthe podcast index dot social, I19900:11:56,310 --> 00:12:00,090saw that wavelike all of asudden, as you say, entered the20000:12:00,090 --> 00:12:03,570room. What did they what didthey do exactly.20100:12:04,380 --> 00:12:07,920Dave Jones: But they they putchannel level value blocks in.20200:12:08,430 --> 00:12:10,680So they have you know, they'venever had channel level value20300:12:10,680 --> 00:12:14,550blocks. Everything's been at theepisode level. And it had20400:12:14,550 --> 00:12:18,000something I never fullyunderstood. But Michael said, it20500:12:18,000 --> 00:12:21,480just has something to do withthe way they were just the way20600:12:21,480 --> 00:12:27,330their system was built, did itit was kind of hard for them to20700:12:27,330 --> 00:12:35,580do a channel level value block.And so you know, a try. I tried20800:12:35,580 --> 00:12:39,150to make it work a little bit. Ithought I could let me get back20900:12:39,150 --> 00:12:42,960into it and say the problem withthat the rent. It's not a21000:12:42,960 --> 00:12:49,200humongous problem for most apps,but there's a couple of apps21100:12:49,200 --> 00:12:55,260like breeze that that really didstruggle with this because Oh, I21200:12:55,260 --> 00:12:59,640didn't know that. Yeah, so theway that the way the podcast21300:12:59,640 --> 00:13:02,160index database is set up withvalue box, there's two different21400:13:02,160 --> 00:13:08,130tables, there's a value box,there's a a new there's a news21500:13:08,130 --> 00:13:11,790feed value blog table, and thenthere's an item's everything a21600:13:11,790 --> 00:13:16,530slash episodes value blockstable that have relationships.21700:13:16,530 --> 00:13:21,570And so the the way like, forinstance, the way breeze works21800:13:23,400 --> 00:13:28,140is it only shows value enabledfeeds, you know, it's not a21900:13:28,140 --> 00:13:31,830general purpose player, if itdoesn't have a value. Oh,22000:13:32,190 --> 00:13:35,160Adam Curry: yes, I get it. I getit. I get it. Yeah.22100:13:35,160 --> 00:13:41,850Dave Jones: And so the is the,the API calls for searching22200:13:41,880 --> 00:13:46,170value enabled feeds justwouldn't return anything because22300:13:46,170 --> 00:13:49,590they're the item label. I gotYeah, they technically weren't22400:13:49,590 --> 00:13:54,690value enabled feeds they werevalue enabled episodes. So that22500:13:54,840 --> 00:13:58,350never really got resolved in sonow that's all fixed so now22600:13:58,350 --> 00:13:59,940breeze should have all themusic.22700:14:00,210 --> 00:14:04,470Adam Curry: So I was I waslistening to the episode one of22800:14:04,470 --> 00:14:10,770waveform that's the podcast.I'll do it yeah. But if you22900:14:10,770 --> 00:14:14,430could look at that feed for asecond because you know, I only23000:14:14,430 --> 00:14:17,820look on grants that I'm lookingat it podcast guru which has23100:14:17,820 --> 00:14:22,500always been spot on for me. Andit has I mean I know they played23200:14:22,500 --> 00:14:25,560at least two songs but and theysaid that you know they were23300:14:25,620 --> 00:14:33,570splitting the the V for V but Isee they have one value time23400:14:33,570 --> 00:14:39,240split one but not the it seemedlike they are having some issues23500:14:39,240 --> 00:14:42,600with their value time and I alsodon't think they have their23600:14:42,600 --> 00:14:45,900podcasts that is medium equalsmusic. No I wouldn't be meeting23700:14:45,900 --> 00:14:47,400equals music I'm sorry. That'swrong.23800:14:48,960 --> 00:14:51,900Dave Jones: Anyway, can at theitem level and they have a value23900:14:51,930 --> 00:14:54,000Adam Curry: they value timesplit in there. They have one24000:14:55,410 --> 00:14:58,050now they have two or they dobecause I don't only one showed24100:14:58,050 --> 00:15:00,750up maybe that maybe thatsomething with24200:15:02,639 --> 00:15:06,749Dave Jones: that two of them.Yeah. Is they both valid person?24300:15:06,810 --> 00:15:09,720Adam Curry: Are they both validbecause I only only one shows up24400:15:09,720 --> 00:15:10,200for me24500:15:10,920 --> 00:15:14,070Dave Jones: to thought was weirdpod in pod verbs. Podcast24600:15:14,070 --> 00:15:15,720Adam Curry: Guru is what I waslooking at24700:15:16,800 --> 00:15:20,910Dave Jones: podcast. Let mecheck to see me check cast O24800:15:20,910 --> 00:15:26,550Matic because KISSmetrics got apretty Yeah, clear. That's what24900:15:26,820 --> 00:15:27,930I mean clear and as you are.25000:15:28,350 --> 00:15:29,820Adam Curry: And while you'rewhile you're looking at that,25100:15:30,360 --> 00:15:33,540now, I'm delighted that to do itthat they're making these25200:15:33,540 --> 00:15:40,290changes because they can be soimportant in the value verse, I25300:15:40,290 --> 00:15:42,990keep saying using this word,they can be so important in the25400:15:42,990 --> 00:15:49,230value verse by just being agreat music host. Because they25500:15:49,230 --> 00:15:51,570understand how to speak toartists and they have and25600:15:51,570 --> 00:15:55,410they've got the vibe going. ThenI was listening to them on the25700:15:55,410 --> 00:16:01,260podcast. And it was, I mean,there was a lot about noster and25800:16:01,260 --> 00:16:06,870like it's just frustrates mebecause then I then I see25900:16:07,050 --> 00:16:11,100Zebedee, Zebedee is the the bignoster wallet guy, right.26000:16:11,490 --> 00:16:14,490Zebedee does it biddies everyday. Yeah, that's too and26100:16:14,490 --> 00:16:22,380they're promoting musicplaylists on on fountain. So26200:16:22,410 --> 00:16:24,360looks like some capitulationthere.26300:16:25,530 --> 00:16:26,850Dave Jones: Zebedee is Yeah,26400:16:26,880 --> 00:16:30,060Adam Curry: well the other gotvideo ads running on on Twitter.26500:16:31,980 --> 00:16:36,420Yeah. Which by the way, makemake voting fountain. Well, it26600:16:36,420 --> 00:16:39,480makes they make it look likehonestly at first I was like is26700:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,570Aberdeen amended this looks likefountain but it's Zebedee now26800:16:42,570 --> 00:16:44,670was anybody's anybody'sliberties? Ebody somebody26900:16:44,670 --> 00:16:45,750somebody's liberty?27000:16:46,290 --> 00:16:47,250Dave Jones: Yeah. And the daysthey're27100:16:47,250 --> 00:16:52,020Adam Curry: back in? Yeah. Andthen at the very end, it says it27200:16:52,020 --> 00:16:57,240has the fountain logo. Next,Zebedee. But they kind of make27300:16:57,240 --> 00:17:00,240it look like you create aplaylist on fountain you get27400:17:00,240 --> 00:17:00,780paid.27500:17:02,820 --> 00:17:07,050Dave Jones: Oh, the you do,right.27600:17:08,070 --> 00:17:10,740Adam Curry: I don't know. Isthat but that must be a fountain27700:17:10,740 --> 00:17:11,520specific thing.27800:17:12,540 --> 00:17:14,400Dave Jones: Yeah, I think Ithink it is. That makes sense.27900:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,310Yeah. Yeah, I think it is now Ithink you do get a get a cut.28000:17:17,310 --> 00:17:21,390And then I think Sam Sethi saidthat true fans is doing that28100:17:21,390 --> 00:17:22,560too. If you make playlists,28200:17:22,590 --> 00:17:25,560Adam Curry: okay, that's me geta cut. But then can I subscribe28300:17:25,560 --> 00:17:31,230to that playlist? In a differentapp? Or is that only is it only28400:17:31,260 --> 00:17:36,090that I don't know when that truefans see that? That's where I'm28500:17:36,090 --> 00:17:39,510like, oh, maybe no, make itavailable. So you can share it28600:17:39,510 --> 00:17:42,180with everybody. Otherwise,you're kind of making the28700:17:42,180 --> 00:17:45,750Spotify mistake. Spotify thoughtthey could keep it all but you28800:17:45,750 --> 00:17:47,340need the whole ecosystem.28900:17:48,420 --> 00:17:51,240Dave Jones: Now this isinteresting. Steven bass as we29000:17:51,240 --> 00:17:53,610found out Zebedee doesn't workin Florida because of state29100:17:53,610 --> 00:17:58,020regulations. How is is thatbased on Geo IP? Do you know I29200:17:58,020 --> 00:17:58,200think29300:17:58,200 --> 00:18:02,760Adam Curry: it works. But youcan't you can't take you can't29400:18:02,760 --> 00:18:08,610take SATs out of Zebedee. Ithink I think I think it works.29500:18:10,530 --> 00:18:12,390Dave Jones: This is so messedup. Yeah.29600:18:12,450 --> 00:18:17,010Adam Curry: Oh, yes. Correct. ismessed up. Absolutely. That's29700:18:19,710 --> 00:18:24,000really in Manhattan, NewHampshire. You can't transfer29800:18:24,000 --> 00:18:27,420sets. That's it. Yeah. But youcan bet you can send them right.29900:18:27,420 --> 00:18:30,300You can use the wallet to sendjust can't transfer it out of30000:18:30,300 --> 00:18:36,930the wallet into something. Yeah.Oh, you can't boost. Wow. Wow,30100:18:36,930 --> 00:18:39,300Dave Jones: this is that'scrazy. I had no idea that there30200:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,650was that they have to be doingJeep geolocation. Well, to30300:18:43,650 --> 00:18:46,110Adam Curry: be honest, who needsFlorida? Come on, which is30400:18:48,600 --> 00:18:51,060Dave Jones: the appendix of theUnited States. Hanging that's30500:18:51,060 --> 00:18:52,800not doing much. That's30600:18:52,800 --> 00:18:56,430Adam Curry: messed up. Oh,that's interesting.30700:18:56,730 --> 00:18:58,530Dave Jones: Um, I guess VPNwould work.30800:18:59,070 --> 00:19:01,170Adam Curry: Maybe? Maybe?30900:19:02,100 --> 00:19:04,410Dave Jones: I don't know. It asweird.31000:19:04,410 --> 00:19:07,440Adam Curry: Well, that's that'sa that's a that's like, a non31100:19:07,440 --> 00:19:09,210starter almost. That's weird.31200:19:10,260 --> 00:19:13,080Dave Jones: Yeah. Because Imean, it doesn't seem to be the31300:19:13,080 --> 00:19:14,940case without be. No.31400:19:14,970 --> 00:19:17,850Adam Curry: Well, they're inGermany. Tell they got a whole31500:19:17,880 --> 00:19:20,160whole different thing going onthere. I will run into these31600:19:20,160 --> 00:19:24,060problems. There's no doubt aboutit. But But anyway, the point31700:19:24,060 --> 00:19:28,770being the music stuff feels likeit's working. You know, it's31800:19:28,770 --> 00:19:33,450like people are drawing closer.I love seeing wave Lake, doing31900:19:33,450 --> 00:19:37,320something that makes it better.And I can only presume they're32000:19:37,320 --> 00:19:43,140doing more. I'm just not feelingthe heat from noster I'm just32100:19:43,140 --> 00:19:47,700not feeling it. I'm not glad I'mgranted. I'm a little biased32200:19:47,700 --> 00:19:51,630because we follow Jay 55 on theon the mostre bridge through32300:19:51,630 --> 00:19:55,290podcasts index dot social. Andit just seems like he's the only32400:19:55,290 --> 00:19:59,160guy I know he's not. He's theonly guy and he's basically32500:19:59,160 --> 00:20:01,620building everything. under thatapp, everything, you know, the32600:20:01,620 --> 00:20:05,100database, the search, it's allin one app. And that's it.32700:20:05,100 --> 00:20:06,780Unless you have that app, youdon't have any of the32800:20:06,780 --> 00:20:10,080functionality. He's like, it'slike an app and a relay in one.32900:20:11,460 --> 00:20:17,880Dave Jones: It's the noster isjust a, it's it's hanging on by33000:20:17,880 --> 00:20:24,150a thread. If enough Domus goes,it's over. Are you sure? Yeah.33100:20:24,210 --> 00:20:26,640Adam Curry: I mean, you say thatI just don't know. I just don't33200:20:26,640 --> 00:20:26,970know.33300:20:28,620 --> 00:20:32,370Dave Jones: How many. Iguarantee you that. 90% of the33400:20:32,370 --> 00:20:38,520people who are on noster arealso also on Twitter. Oh, well,33500:20:38,520 --> 00:20:39,210because and33600:20:39,210 --> 00:20:41,850Adam Curry: telegram that'swhere they have a telegram group33700:20:41,850 --> 00:20:44,790to discuss to discussdevelopments. So yeah.33800:20:46,590 --> 00:20:50,460Dave Jones: It seems like a funhobby for them. No, that's what33900:20:50,460 --> 00:20:54,300it seems like. It seems like afun hobby for Bitcoiners to try34000:20:54,300 --> 00:20:58,650to build this thing, and that'sfine. But it's not I don't see34100:20:58,650 --> 00:21:02,340this thing having seen I have noI have no confidence that noster34200:21:02,340 --> 00:21:03,960will still be around five yearsfrom now.34300:21:04,770 --> 00:21:09,960Adam Curry: In a way it's kindof the same issue that activity34400:21:09,960 --> 00:21:14,400Pub has is no activity Pub isuniversally seen as the mastodon34500:21:14,400 --> 00:21:20,940thing. And, and the the socialnetwork noster is seen as what34600:21:20,940 --> 00:21:24,030noster is, even though nosterclearly can be much more34700:21:24,030 --> 00:21:29,400universal login. You know,there's there's a lot of benefit34800:21:29,400 --> 00:21:31,770to some of that.34900:21:33,330 --> 00:21:37,080Dave Jones: When we ran in, youknow, we ran into we've hit35000:21:37,110 --> 00:21:41,850we've hit the first problem withthe whole nostre thing. Right?35100:21:42,300 --> 00:21:46,740You know, this week is so AlexGleason is Jills. He's working35200:21:46,740 --> 00:21:49,200on nos. He's the one that builtthe monster bridge and all that.35300:21:49,830 --> 00:21:54,450He's doing a lot of noster workand he was like, Well, how do I35400:21:54,450 --> 00:22:02,010get podcasts? How do I get thevalue information so that we can35500:22:02,580 --> 00:22:07,710zap podcasts when they comethrough the bridge? Right? Oh,35600:22:08,730 --> 00:22:10,830Adam Curry: oh, wow. Wait aminute. So so we're going from35700:22:11,280 --> 00:22:15,510the podcast index, to theactivity pub bridge to the35800:22:15,510 --> 00:22:19,320nostril bridge, through thenostril bridge sexy. Okay,35900:22:19,320 --> 00:22:22,140that's super interrupt, exceptwhen it when it comes out the36000:22:22,140 --> 00:22:26,820other end. On the Nasir bridge,we've we lost everything. We the36100:22:26,820 --> 00:22:30,750resolution is very low becausewe don't have splits. That's36200:22:30,750 --> 00:22:32,850Dave Jones: it. And that's whereit all falls apart is because36300:22:32,850 --> 00:22:37,950you so you have a you have apodcast with six splits in it,36400:22:38,130 --> 00:22:41,610different people getting paid.You can't there's no way to zap36500:22:41,610 --> 00:22:46,350that. You can't. It just allfalls apart. They stick because36600:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,770To my knowledge, they still haveno sense of what a true of a36700:22:49,770 --> 00:22:55,110true split. And and all thatstuff is just it's just a mess.36800:22:55,140 --> 00:22:58,950Adam Curry: It's so weird,because it I mean, I've seen the36900:22:58,950 --> 00:23:03,060proposals. I've seen the what isit the spectrum proposal from37000:23:03,060 --> 00:23:03,750GG?37100:23:04,830 --> 00:23:06,960Dave Jones: Yeah, but see, thatwasn't a real that was just an37200:23:06,960 --> 00:23:12,300article saying we need this.Nobody's fully baked it yet.37300:23:12,660 --> 00:23:16,620That in a way, that's not acentral US solution. I mean,37400:23:16,620 --> 00:23:20,310that you, you could say like,the prison thing is what you're37500:23:20,310 --> 00:23:23,430talking about. Yeah. Yeah. Andso there's been there's been37600:23:23,430 --> 00:23:26,730there's been other things thatare like a centralized prism37700:23:26,730 --> 00:23:30,210service where you can send thisthing to them, and they'll37800:23:30,240 --> 00:23:33,030they'll do some sort ofsplitting for you. But that's37900:23:33,030 --> 00:23:35,700like a I mean, it's just aservice, that's a product.38000:23:36,810 --> 00:23:40,800Adam Curry: Well, but when thewhen the podcast comes through,38100:23:41,280 --> 00:23:43,710take it to the bridge comesthrough the bridge, then goes to38200:23:43,710 --> 00:23:48,510the master bridge, can't it takethe payment information along38300:23:48,510 --> 00:23:51,270and just translate those? Imean, yeah, you'd have to zap38400:23:51,270 --> 00:23:53,820them individually. I guess thatseems like the only way you38500:23:53,820 --> 00:23:55,170could do that. Well, it's38600:23:55,170 --> 00:23:57,840Dave Jones: all ln URL that seethis. And this is another core38700:23:57,840 --> 00:24:01,170problem with with with noster.And zapping and all this kind of38800:24:01,170 --> 00:24:05,130stuff is it was built. It'sbuilt by the Ellen URL, people.38900:24:05,460 --> 00:24:09,120So they've made a commitment toEllen URL over Kison from day39000:24:09,120 --> 00:24:14,340one. And so it's a more it's amore complicated that you can't39100:24:14,340 --> 00:24:17,490just grab a note ID and sendinstant money you have to go39200:24:17,490 --> 00:24:21,570through this handshake rigmaroleof getting an invoice for every39300:24:21,570 --> 00:24:25,200payment you want to make. Sothere's this there's just not a39400:24:26,580 --> 00:24:29,430they've felt like they'vehamstrung themselves with with39500:24:29,430 --> 00:24:36,090this dedication to Ellen URL.Where as if it was just a bunch39600:24:36,090 --> 00:24:40,860of key sends a bunch of keysins. Yeah, that's easy. You39700:24:40,860 --> 00:24:44,130just get a list of address andkey send it right like literally39800:24:44,130 --> 00:24:47,880the value block is what is allyou need, and you can just lock39900:24:47,880 --> 00:24:49,800it out. You can just pop pop uppop up, right40000:24:49,800 --> 00:24:52,290Adam Curry: because the ln URLthat you have to have some40100:24:52,290 --> 00:24:55,890interaction with the wallet youhave to you have to say yes pay40200:24:56,430 --> 00:25:00,690or Yes. Voice and then you haveto enter the amount And then pay40300:25:00,690 --> 00:25:02,880is that is that the that's thedifference?40400:25:03,150 --> 00:25:04,650Dave Jones: Yeah, you got tolook at you got to resolve the40500:25:04,650 --> 00:25:09,990address, make a call to the makea call to the Ellen URL layer on40600:25:09,990 --> 00:25:13,290top of the node, ask for aninvoice for the amount you're40700:25:13,290 --> 00:25:18,450going to send, wait for theinvoice to be generated, then do40800:25:18,450 --> 00:25:22,260and then pay the invoice. So youhave to ask the receiving party40900:25:22,260 --> 00:25:25,020to give you an invoice beforeyou before you can send the41000:25:25,020 --> 00:25:25,680payment. So41100:25:25,680 --> 00:25:29,430Adam Curry: I saw on thenamespace discussion, which I41200:25:29,430 --> 00:25:32,070tried to stay away from becauseit's really bad for my health.41300:25:33,300 --> 00:25:38,340Just anything, GitHub is like, Iwant to be there. And I saw41400:25:38,340 --> 00:25:43,110there was quite a discussionabout Ellen, Ellen URL PE and41500:25:43,110 --> 00:25:47,670the this, this kind of flowsinto Phase seven, so we might as41600:25:47,670 --> 00:25:51,120well get ready to talk aboutthat. I saw Roy chiming in there41700:25:51,120 --> 00:25:54,000was all kinds of discussionabout how to handle the well41800:25:54,000 --> 00:25:55,050known address.41900:25:55,500 --> 00:25:58,650Dave Jones: No way. Did thishappen. This must have happened42000:25:58,650 --> 00:25:59,130yesterday.42100:25:59,340 --> 00:26:01,860Adam Curry: I don't know. Imean, I might have been looking42200:26:01,860 --> 00:26:04,920at something from from twomonths ago for all I know, let42300:26:04,920 --> 00:26:09,780me see. namespace. Let me justtake a look.42400:26:10,260 --> 00:26:14,700Dave Jones: Because I love tocomment in there about can we42500:26:14,700 --> 00:26:17,790get some confirmation of Yep.Okay. I see. I missed the42600:26:17,790 --> 00:26:18,690replies. Okay.42700:26:19,620 --> 00:26:20,160Adam Curry: See,42800:26:21,990 --> 00:26:25,290Dave Jones: I had logged in acomment about in order to have42900:26:25,290 --> 00:26:30,450the lightning address in there.We need I just wanted43000:26:30,450 --> 00:26:36,600confirmation of how apps we'regoing to handle paying through43100:26:36,600 --> 00:26:41,460the lightning address or thekeys and address using using43200:26:41,460 --> 00:26:46,080Alby I just wondered if Okay,cannot tell, cannot tell43300:26:46,110 --> 00:26:51,300applications that are going tolike cast ematic that don't have43400:26:51,300 --> 00:26:56,130a back end server and depend onalbies API cannot tell Franco43500:26:56,520 --> 00:27:01,860that he will now or in thefuture be able to rely on on43600:27:01,860 --> 00:27:05,190Albea to do the keys and addressresolution rather than having to43700:27:05,190 --> 00:27:06,240do it on device.43800:27:06,270 --> 00:27:09,510Adam Curry: So what I what Iread here is that Roy was saying43900:27:09,540 --> 00:27:14,190that the ln address spec shouldbe extended to support multiple44000:27:14,190 --> 00:27:17,760send options. So this seems likewe're going into a little44100:27:17,760 --> 00:27:20,700different realm that justsomething for the namespace for44200:27:20,700 --> 00:27:21,600our namespace.44300:27:24,360 --> 00:27:25,650Dave Jones: See, down44400:27:25,650 --> 00:27:26,550Adam Curry: at the bottom there.44500:27:30,540 --> 00:27:34,950Dave Jones: Well, yeah, so Imissed all these replies. And44600:27:35,400 --> 00:27:36,870I'm gonna see in this for thefirst time,44700:27:37,350 --> 00:27:39,570Adam Curry: what you can parsethat and immediately understand44800:27:39,570 --> 00:27:41,370and tell me what's going on. I'mso disciplined.44900:27:41,730 --> 00:27:44,400Dave Jones: Already immediatelyunderstand that the boomy from45000:27:44,400 --> 00:27:46,650lb says no, they're not going todo that. They're not45100:27:46,650 --> 00:27:50,460Adam Curry: going to do what?Address Resolution? Oh, so it45200:27:50,460 --> 00:27:56,070has to happen on the on the appon device on device, which is45300:27:56,070 --> 00:27:56,550bad?45400:27:58,920 --> 00:28:02,010Dave Jones: Well, you know, Imean, open to interpretation.45500:28:02,220 --> 00:28:05,880That means are we losing peoplehere? I mean, do we need to have45600:28:05,880 --> 00:28:10,470a? Do we need to bring people upto what this means? Like?45700:28:13,170 --> 00:28:15,600Esoteric discussion where peopleare like, What the hell they45800:28:15,600 --> 00:28:16,380talk as opposed45900:28:16,380 --> 00:28:18,540Adam Curry: to everything elsewe do on this show? Okay.46000:28:19,470 --> 00:28:21,750Dave Jones: Fair enough. No, no?Okay.46100:28:21,810 --> 00:28:24,450Adam Curry: Yes, update usbecause it is part of Phase46200:28:24,450 --> 00:28:27,930seven. This is we are nowentering the hot namespace talk46300:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,030for and now it's time for somehot namespace talk. Do you want46400:28:33,030 --> 00:28:35,250to just take him in order? Ithink this is number one, isn't46500:28:35,250 --> 00:28:40,560it? Let me see what now you havean order here. Phase seven.46600:28:40,890 --> 00:28:44,940Phase seven of the namespace?The we see? Well, it's number46700:28:44,940 --> 00:28:47,700three on the list. But whatsince we're talking about it,46800:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,390number three of phase seven forthe namespace is key send46900:28:51,420 --> 00:28:52,080addressed.47000:28:53,640 --> 00:29:01,260Dave Jones: Okay. The value inthe podcasts value block,47100:29:01,620 --> 00:29:06,600currently, where you definewho's going to get paid. It47200:29:06,600 --> 00:29:11,760defines the spec defines a valuerecipient. And the value47300:29:11,760 --> 00:29:17,370recipient has a type. The onlyone available right now as a47400:29:17,370 --> 00:29:20,190type of note is the type noderight?47500:29:20,190 --> 00:29:22,920Adam Curry: And then you canhave as extra parameters the47600:29:23,460 --> 00:29:27,150special key and the secret code.Yes.47700:29:27,630 --> 00:29:30,720Dave Jones: So you can have thepublic so there you have the you47800:29:30,720 --> 00:29:34,140have the the node ID of thelightning address the lightning47900:29:34,140 --> 00:29:37,560node you're sending the money toand an optional custom key48000:29:37,560 --> 00:29:41,160custom value for routing ifyou're sending to a multiple48100:29:41,160 --> 00:29:45,060wallet node provider like Albyyour fountain or right whoever.48200:29:47,490 --> 00:29:51,960Satoshi stream whatever so then,that's so essentially you have a48300:29:52,350 --> 00:29:57,120an address, which has a longhexadecimal, it's like a BEC 3248400:29:57,120 --> 00:30:01,020or whatever that code is, whichis your note interest. That's48500:30:01,080 --> 00:30:04,290what is currently all thatthat's the way this all works.48600:30:04,710 --> 00:30:08,760There's no resolving thathappens. You're just, you're48700:30:08,760 --> 00:30:14,910like, here's the note Id send itthis mini SATs done. what's48800:30:14,910 --> 00:30:21,210being proposed is, is changingthat to something to where48900:30:21,210 --> 00:30:25,500there's a name instead of a nodeID. So that there's a resolution49000:30:25,500 --> 00:30:28,410step that has to have happen,you have to resolve the name49100:30:28,410 --> 00:30:36,480into its corresponding node ID.Right. And that's to, and that's49200:30:36,480 --> 00:30:40,830to make it where in the futureif wallet providers like49300:30:40,830 --> 00:30:44,400fountain or Alby or whoever theWell, this was, just49400:30:44,400 --> 00:30:47,040Adam Curry: so we know this wasa request from fountain and49500:30:47,040 --> 00:30:47,520Albie.49600:30:48,720 --> 00:30:52,320Dave Jones: Yeah, that yeah,Oscar, Oscar tossed the ball up,49700:30:52,320 --> 00:30:56,010and I'll be bouncing, you know,they, they've been bugged, kept,49800:30:56,010 --> 00:31:00,390kept kept in the air. So they,they both need this or, you49900:31:00,390 --> 00:31:03,930know, and understand the need, Ithink they're legit is a50000:31:03,930 --> 00:31:06,390legitimate need on their part,they do not want to go through50100:31:06,390 --> 00:31:13,140the pain of having to deprecatea node ID, because there's50200:31:13,230 --> 00:31:15,990potentially hundreds of feedsout there that have this that50300:31:15,990 --> 00:31:18,990are hard that people are hard toget in touch with. Makes perfect50400:31:18,990 --> 00:31:25,500sense, I get it. The theconsequence, though, of doing50500:31:25,500 --> 00:31:29,970that is not a deal killer, itjust means we all need to have50600:31:29,970 --> 00:31:32,070our eyes open. The consequenceof doing that, as I've mentioned50700:31:32,070 --> 00:31:38,070before, is that now an app hasto do the risk resolution. So if50800:31:38,070 --> 00:31:43,260you have a value block with 10splits in it, now you have to50900:31:43,260 --> 00:31:48,690resolve potentially 10 Differentadd in different API, HTTP calls51000:31:48,690 --> 00:31:50,670before you can even startpaying. And51100:31:50,670 --> 00:31:53,340Adam Curry: so just, I'm justgonna make it simple because I'm51200:31:53,340 --> 00:32:01,740the dummy. That means there's aAdam at fountain and.fm, and51300:32:01,740 --> 00:32:05,610it's an AC HTTP call wouldbetter be HTTPS, otherwise,51400:32:05,610 --> 00:32:10,050Google would get angry. Oh, itwill be Yeah. And so Oh, there's51500:32:10,050 --> 00:32:14,280nothing can go wrong, expiringcerts. And then that basically51600:32:14,280 --> 00:32:17,760resolves to a text file thatsaid, that gives the information51700:32:18,150 --> 00:32:22,800as previously mentioned, node IDand the custom key and the cost51800:32:22,800 --> 00:32:24,930of the routing information.That's basically what's in that51900:32:24,930 --> 00:32:32,400text file. Or, or it's an EllenURL PE, thing. That's, that's52000:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,400the key difference there. No,that's not there. Okay. The52100:32:35,400 --> 00:32:35,700Ellen52200:32:35,700 --> 00:32:38,700Dave Jones: URL has nothing todo with this. Okay, this has52300:32:38,700 --> 00:32:41,460nothing to do with this. Okay.Got it. And that was confusion52400:32:41,460 --> 00:32:45,030at the beginning, because we'rethe proposed name for this was L52500:32:45,030 --> 00:32:48,660and your LP TA for the addressresolution, but that it was a52600:32:48,660 --> 00:32:51,720misnomer. That million euro hasnothing to do with Okay, got it.52700:32:51,900 --> 00:33:00,720So we moved we got past that.And, you know, the, the issue52800:33:00,720 --> 00:33:07,140here is, the ACA thinks thething I don't like about it. And52900:33:07,140 --> 00:33:10,470again, none of these are dealkillers. I still I want to make53000:33:10,530 --> 00:33:16,890put this in the spec, I think itis a good idea. And I'm nervous53100:33:16,920 --> 00:33:26,460about introducing HTTP, to whatis to what is not necessarily an53200:33:26,460 --> 00:33:27,900HTTP based53300:33:29,400 --> 00:33:33,840Adam Curry: thing. Because rightnow, all all the apps have to do53400:33:33,960 --> 00:33:37,800is talk to the API and say,here's, here's the split53500:33:37,800 --> 00:33:40,980addresses, go at it. And nowthere will be an extra step that53600:33:40,980 --> 00:33:45,540has to be put in, which is theresolution, correct? Right.53700:33:45,570 --> 00:33:49,830Dave Jones: Okay. So imaginethis is this is a little bit53800:33:49,860 --> 00:33:55,230this concern of mine is obscuredby the fact that most all the53900:33:55,230 --> 00:34:03,450apps use Alby or fountain uses adifferent provider. But consider54000:34:03,450 --> 00:34:09,780a an app like breeze. Now, Iknow this doesn't necessarily54100:34:09,780 --> 00:34:14,820apply to breeze because Roy isokay with this. He's okay with54200:34:14,820 --> 00:34:17,190Ellen URL and these kinds ofthings. He's going to make that54300:34:17,190 --> 00:34:25,020work. But what I'm saying isconsider a an app like that,54400:34:25,890 --> 00:34:34,620where it speaks lightningnatively. And you can so what54500:34:34,620 --> 00:34:39,180you have is a lightning address.Excuse me, what you have is a54600:34:39,180 --> 00:34:44,430node ID for the receivingpayment. And you have an app54700:34:44,460 --> 00:34:49,170that can speak lightningnatively. And so that is a that54800:34:49,170 --> 00:34:52,890is a not a lightning nativetransaction from start to54900:34:52,890 --> 00:34:59,220finish. Now, what you've done isyou've introduced an address55000:34:59,220 --> 00:35:03,120that has to be reserved oft. Sowhat was a pure lightning?55100:35:03,900 --> 00:35:09,270Native transaction from soup tonuts is now interrupted with an55200:35:09,270 --> 00:35:15,690HTTP transaction? In order toget the lightning address that55300:35:15,690 --> 00:35:18,570you need to finish the lightningtransaction, right?55400:35:18,570 --> 00:35:20,700Adam Curry: So it really goesfrom something that was very55500:35:20,700 --> 00:35:27,300elegant to the two, okay, do wecache these? Do we, you know, it55600:35:27,300 --> 00:35:29,940adds overhead, it can fail,55700:35:31,050 --> 00:35:33,960Dave Jones: the caching would becritical, because you really55800:35:33,960 --> 00:35:40,020don't like you can't, most mostapps do not want the overhead of55900:35:40,020 --> 00:35:44,700having to make potentially 10 or20, even address resolution56000:35:44,700 --> 00:35:46,890lookups, every minute thatthey're going to make, they're56100:35:46,890 --> 00:35:48,240going to be sending payments.Okay, we56200:35:48,240 --> 00:35:50,220Adam Curry: know this for afact. I'm just paying, playing56300:35:50,220 --> 00:35:52,020devil's advocate, because whatdo I know?56400:35:52,650 --> 00:35:55,170Dave Jones: Yeah, like cachingis absolutely going to be net56500:35:55,170 --> 00:36:02,160necessary that for some periodof time, and it's, you know, it.56600:36:02,400 --> 00:36:05,160Yeah. For sat streaming? Yeah,for the streaming per minute56700:36:05,160 --> 00:36:07,470stuff, you're, you're just gonnahave to cash the address. And56800:36:07,470 --> 00:36:10,650like I say, it's not, I mean,it's none of this is like, the56900:36:10,650 --> 00:36:14,550end of the world. But there'ssome sort of purity problem I57000:36:14,550 --> 00:36:20,100have with this where, you know,and I'll get over it, believe57100:36:20,100 --> 00:36:23,640me, but there's just a there'ssomething, you know, it's, it57200:36:23,640 --> 00:36:30,180just doesn't feel as clean tome, because I've never really57300:36:30,210 --> 00:36:35,490liked the whole Ellen URL thingto begin with. Because I just, I57400:36:35,490 --> 00:36:41,190don't think there's, it's likewe use we bring HTTP in to solve57500:36:41,190 --> 00:36:47,310a bunch of problems that arethat might, I don't know, it's57600:36:47,310 --> 00:36:52,800sort of like a band aid, westick on top of things. And, and57700:36:52,800 --> 00:36:55,830I'm just not crazy about that. Iguess the reason I've been him57800:36:55,830 --> 00:37:01,200hauling around and not reallyand haven't pulled the trigger57900:37:01,200 --> 00:37:05,760yet, is two reasons. One is Idon't, I need a story to tell.58000:37:06,420 --> 00:37:10,080To add developers like, likeFranco, like okay, Franco here,58100:37:10,080 --> 00:37:13,320you're gonna start seeing thesecome through, you're gonna, once58200:37:13,320 --> 00:37:15,930this goes into the spec, you'regonna start seeing lightning58300:37:15,930 --> 00:37:21,960addresses, keys and addressescome through. And here's how58400:37:22,020 --> 00:37:26,010you're gonna have to handle it.So there are, I mean, people are58500:37:26,010 --> 00:37:30,570gonna have to make changes totheir apps across the board. I58600:37:30,570 --> 00:37:34,860mean, and so that's, it's my,it's easy to propose this bag,58700:37:34,860 --> 00:37:37,260but then I'm the one that has totell the story to the developers58800:37:37,260 --> 00:37:38,760when they say, Okay, what isthis?58900:37:38,820 --> 00:37:44,400Adam Curry: So let me ask you aquestion. Why? Why? Doesn't seem59000:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,550like you said Bhumi had answeredthat Why does an owl be want to59100:37:47,550 --> 00:37:51,000do that? Why don't they want todo the resolution? Because of59200:37:51,000 --> 00:37:54,600the overhead? I'm just presumingit.59300:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,870Dave Jones: But he says, I thinkwe should not rely on wallet59400:38:00,870 --> 00:38:04,530payment providers to implementparts of the spec. And you59500:38:04,530 --> 00:38:05,760should be independent, but59600:38:05,760 --> 00:38:06,990Adam Curry: they're the onesrequesting it.59700:38:09,150 --> 00:38:15,000Dave Jones: Yeah, I mean, yeah,I don't know. I mean, I think59800:38:15,480 --> 00:38:19,350like this will, this willhappen? I mean, I'm probably59900:38:19,350 --> 00:38:22,710just just do it. I mean, like,it's not, we've been waiting60000:38:22,710 --> 00:38:27,090around too long already. And itjust needs a small utility of60100:38:27,090 --> 00:38:27,750this. We need.60200:38:27,780 --> 00:38:31,890Adam Curry: Yeah, I do too. Andbelieve me, and even though I60300:38:31,890 --> 00:38:36,720have plenty of my own nodes, Ialso hook stuff up to Albie, no60400:38:36,720 --> 00:38:40,860doubt about it. But I'm alsoprepared to immediately switch60500:38:40,860 --> 00:38:44,700that, if which I don't thinkmost of these apps could even60600:38:44,700 --> 00:38:51,000do. I would happily switch thatto my own node, which Yeah, no,60700:38:51,000 --> 00:38:55,350I think I can do it through thelb. Extension, maybe I don't60800:38:55,350 --> 00:39:00,330know. But my fear is I justdon't want to lock us into60900:39:00,330 --> 00:39:06,660boxes. That if if lb goes away,then what then we have to create61000:39:06,660 --> 00:39:11,640wallets that if it's walletside, then none of the wallets61100:39:11,640 --> 00:39:14,760will be in your mind node won'tbe able to do that at home. So61200:39:14,760 --> 00:39:16,140something will have to be built.61300:39:16,650 --> 00:39:19,350Dave Jones: Will the current thecurrent the where the proposal61400:39:19,350 --> 00:39:24,030currently stands now, in I thinkit's I think we'll probably just61500:39:24,150 --> 00:39:28,860go with this. I mean, like, youknow, maybe I don't know, maybe61600:39:28,860 --> 00:39:37,500even this week, some is that youhave the key send address in61700:39:37,500 --> 00:39:42,570there. And then you also havethe node ID. And if you can't61800:39:42,570 --> 00:39:45,030resolve the case and address youjust fall back to the node ID61900:39:45,030 --> 00:39:48,210and pay make the payment likeyou always have, or attempt it62000:39:48,210 --> 00:39:53,430as you always have. That seemslike the best compromise I can62100:39:53,430 --> 00:40:00,360think of. You know, basically itjust allows for an extra to62200:40:00,900 --> 00:40:06,300attribute in the value recipienttag, which is a key send62300:40:06,300 --> 00:40:12,540address. And the keys, if yousee the key sender address in62400:40:12,540 --> 00:40:16,740your app supports that feature.You've built the code that does62500:40:16,740 --> 00:40:19,740the caching and the resolutionand everything within look it62600:40:19,740 --> 00:40:26,160up, do a lookup. I wish therewas some way to do this natively62700:40:26,160 --> 00:40:29,820within the Lightning Network,where we wouldn't have to jump62800:40:29,820 --> 00:40:35,190to HTTP. That's really what I'mthat's really what I'm after.62900:40:35,220 --> 00:40:38,640And I just don't know that it'sa thing that can be done. I wish63000:40:38,640 --> 00:40:44,190there was a native nameresolution that can happen that63100:40:44,190 --> 00:40:47,280was native to lightning. I just,just63200:40:47,280 --> 00:40:49,680Adam Curry: well, for sure. Ithink the one thing we kind of63300:40:49,680 --> 00:40:56,820need is some more app developersin this particular thread. We63400:40:56,820 --> 00:41:01,710need to hear from them. No, Idon't. I don't see a single app63500:41:01,710 --> 00:41:05,040developer except Roy chiming inon this thread.63600:41:05,820 --> 00:41:08,070Dave Jones: But no, there was aFranco's chimed in. Oh, yeah.63700:41:08,100 --> 00:41:08,610Okay.63800:41:08,880 --> 00:41:11,970Adam Curry: Yeah. What Francosay no problem. He's63900:41:12,090 --> 00:41:13,440Dave Jones: nice that I don'twant to do it.64000:41:15,840 --> 00:41:17,820Adam Curry: Okay. I mean,64100:41:17,820 --> 00:41:21,780Dave Jones: which is, you know,which is understandable, you64200:41:21,780 --> 00:41:26,280know. So, it's understandable,64300:41:26,280 --> 00:41:28,320Adam Curry: but I don't want tobreak things. I don't want to I64400:41:28,320 --> 00:41:32,940don't want apps to fall falldown. Because, you know, we64500:41:32,940 --> 00:41:35,490implement something that someonesaid up front, I don't want to64600:41:35,490 --> 00:41:37,020do it. Well,64700:41:37,050 --> 00:41:38,970Dave Jones: no, I mean, I thinkhe's saying he doesn't want to64800:41:38,970 --> 00:41:41,880be forced to do all the lookupson device. But if we have this64900:41:41,880 --> 00:41:45,030as if we have the fallback asthe you know.65000:41:48,030 --> 00:41:49,740Adam Curry: Yeah. But I don'thave that meant, that doesn't65100:41:49,740 --> 00:41:52,500make it. I mean, yeah, if wehave the fallback. Sure. But,65200:41:52,830 --> 00:41:56,550but that fall back, people aregoing to be putting their their65300:41:56,550 --> 00:41:59,820keys and addresses in theirfeeds, and they're not going to65400:41:59,820 --> 00:42:03,150fall back just going to be oh,here's a, here's your address.65500:42:03,180 --> 00:42:06,690This is what Alby says you areand you use this, well, they're65600:42:06,690 --> 00:42:08,940Dave Jones: gonna fail on someapps, I mean, they'll they'll65700:42:08,940 --> 00:42:11,130have to know that if they'renot, if they're not following65800:42:11,130 --> 00:42:13,620the spec, then they're gonnahave, they're gonna fail on some65900:42:13,620 --> 00:42:19,050apps. So essentially, the waythe way the spec, the way the66000:42:19,050 --> 00:42:26,760spec proposal is now isbasically is the key is that key66100:42:26,760 --> 00:42:31,290send, there's basically that thevalue recipient thing does not66200:42:31,290 --> 00:42:33,690change, everything that'srequired is still required, you66300:42:33,690 --> 00:42:38,370just have a fallback of beingable to do a resolution if66400:42:38,370 --> 00:42:42,660paying to the node fails. Soit's basically just like turning66500:42:42,660 --> 00:42:42,750to66600:42:42,750 --> 00:42:45,330Adam Curry: enter two values.Now you have to enter, you don't66700:42:45,330 --> 00:42:45,990have to,66800:42:46,110 --> 00:42:49,230Dave Jones: you can, okay,desert that you can enter a66900:42:49,230 --> 00:42:53,040lightning address. Okay. Andsome providers will do that, you67000:42:53,040 --> 00:42:56,850know, if then. So like, imagine,this is a this is easier to67100:42:56,850 --> 00:43:00,360understand if you imagine afuture scenario like this67200:43:01,500 --> 00:43:07,890fountain changes their node. Sonow all of the the podcast or67300:43:07,890 --> 00:43:11,880wallets that are hosted onfountain, they now have to67400:43:11,880 --> 00:43:15,720change their node address intheir feed.67500:43:16,380 --> 00:43:19,140Adam Curry: Yeah, that's whythat's being done. For the67600:43:19,140 --> 00:43:19,620value. Yeah,67700:43:19,620 --> 00:43:22,320Dave Jones: right for the valuerecipient. So in that scenario,67800:43:23,310 --> 00:43:26,670if they if those things, ifthose podcasts or wallets in67900:43:26,670 --> 00:43:31,710their value recipient tags intheir fees, also had a fountain68000:43:31,860 --> 00:43:37,440keys and address defined, then,when apps tried to send a68100:43:37,440 --> 00:43:42,360payment to the to the node IDand it failed, meaning the node68200:43:42,360 --> 00:43:46,740disappeared and went away. Theycould then attempt the address68300:43:46,740 --> 00:43:51,330lookup to find what the new nodeID is. Okay. So,68400:43:51,960 --> 00:43:53,640Adam Curry: yeah, I gotcha. Igotcha. Yeah.68500:43:55,080 --> 00:43:59,310Dave Jones: Yes, I think I thinkthis is not something that I68600:43:59,310 --> 00:44:02,100think we're, wait a minute,there's no sticking points. And68700:44:02,130 --> 00:44:05,190Adam Curry: so that thatactually sounds maybe I just68800:44:05,190 --> 00:44:09,690want to play back what I thoughtI think I heard you say, because68900:44:09,690 --> 00:44:16,110you could also make it and thismight be the easier way. So I69000:44:16,110 --> 00:44:19,770sign up with get lb get lb givesme a node ID and the routing69100:44:19,770 --> 00:44:23,730information that thatinformation pair. And they also69200:44:23,730 --> 00:44:29,940give me Adam at get albea.com.And then I would say, look up69300:44:29,940 --> 00:44:34,080the node ID first the app justsays oh node ID, okay, boom, if69400:44:34,110 --> 00:44:39,510it fails, then do a quick lookupand see is it the correct node69500:44:39,510 --> 00:44:45,180ID? Yes. So instead of lookupalways lookup if fail.69600:44:47,610 --> 00:44:49,200Dave Jones: Does that okay?69700:44:49,200 --> 00:44:52,410Adam Curry: So instead of alwaysdo the lookup, which is based69800:44:52,410 --> 00:44:57,150the main problem people like tolook up if the payment fails,69900:44:57,930 --> 00:45:00,090which could be for a number ofreasons, but if the payment Then70000:45:00,090 --> 00:45:05,250fails, then do a look up on thename to see if the node ID is70100:45:05,250 --> 00:45:08,940still correct. Yes, that'sexactly right. That Okay, that70200:45:08,940 --> 00:45:10,920seems like a reasonablesolution. I mean, it's not70300:45:10,920 --> 00:45:14,280great. People still have to haveto add stuff to their app. But70400:45:14,280 --> 00:45:17,970that may be a kind of a goodcompromise. Yeah,70500:45:18,090 --> 00:45:20,250Dave Jones: I don't see anythingthat's gonna keep us from doing.70600:45:21,060 --> 00:45:21,420Yeah.70700:45:21,720 --> 00:45:24,030Adam Curry: Well, I want peoplearguing in the GitHub, that's a70800:45:24,030 --> 00:45:26,730lot more fun. There's not enougharguing people haven't called70900:45:26,730 --> 00:45:29,940anyone Hitler yet. So we got toget to that point people before71000:45:29,940 --> 00:45:32,130we can make a decision. Yeah.71100:45:32,670 --> 00:45:35,160Dave Jones: We've only had oneone person called a prick in the71200:45:35,160 --> 00:45:38,220last 72 hours. So this, we're,we're below71300:45:39,390 --> 00:45:42,150Adam Curry: arable. We kind ofstep it up people.71400:45:42,630 --> 00:45:47,580Dave Jones: Yeah, we're waybelow quota. That's reasonable.71500:45:48,480 --> 00:45:50,850That I just, I'm glad youbrought my attention this71600:45:50,850 --> 00:45:53,340because I have not checked thismorning, man. I tossed that that71700:45:53,340 --> 00:45:55,620comment in there yesterday. Andthere's a flurry of activity. So71800:45:55,620 --> 00:45:58,200I need to catch up with what'sbeing proposed because there's71900:45:58,200 --> 00:46:02,070some kind of new like, format,so yeah, okay. But I think we're72000:46:02,070 --> 00:46:03,720good. I think we can do that aswe'll figure72100:46:03,720 --> 00:46:07,530Adam Curry: that out. All right,good. Next point. Let's go back72200:46:07,530 --> 00:46:10,650to the beginning of phase seven.Alright, come on. Come on. We72300:46:10,650 --> 00:46:13,860haven't done a proper namespacechat. And you said, Here's face72400:46:13,860 --> 00:46:14,850seven the plan.72500:46:15,390 --> 00:46:16,260Dave Jones: Okay. It's my fault.72600:46:16,530 --> 00:46:19,080Adam Curry: It's your fault. Imean, unless you want me to72700:46:19,080 --> 00:46:21,450bitch about Sam Sathya can dothat for a minute. If you want a72800:46:21,450 --> 00:46:22,170little interim.72900:46:23,610 --> 00:46:26,790Dave Jones: What is that in thenamespace? I73000:46:26,790 --> 00:46:29,310Adam Curry: didn't say it's notit. No, it's not. But we'll get73100:46:29,310 --> 00:46:32,220to that. cebiche about Sam cityand No, you didn't do your73200:46:32,220 --> 00:46:37,560homework. You didn't listen tothe the weekly review of73300:46:37,560 --> 00:46:40,710knotless now okay, whichapparently is number one on good73400:46:40,710 --> 00:46:47,010pots. It's the best podcastever. Yeah. Don't worry, Sam,73500:46:47,190 --> 00:46:49,320for another glass of wine. I'mcoming back to you, brother.73600:46:51,450 --> 00:46:59,490publish, publish your medium andfeeds. Okay. But all right, what73700:46:59,490 --> 00:47:00,600is that? I forget?73800:47:02,010 --> 00:47:04,950Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Well, Imean, that's this is the this is73900:47:04,950 --> 00:47:07,950the thing that where you havethe public, you know, you have a74000:47:07,950 --> 00:47:13,380publisher feed that defineschildren feeds. So, you know, I74100:47:13,410 --> 00:47:16,410might use your metaphor, youwould have an overall no agenda.74200:47:16,410 --> 00:47:19,860You know, you're not like anAdam curry. Publisher, no agent,74300:47:19,860 --> 00:47:23,370you know, yeah. Adam curry isthe publisher feed. And then you74400:47:23,370 --> 00:47:28,950would define no agenda,podcasting. 2.0 my FX career in74500:47:28,950 --> 00:47:32,880the keeper always child fades,and then those child feeds would74600:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,490have a link back to thepublisher feeds so that you have74700:47:35,490 --> 00:47:37,110a double confirmation. Now,74800:47:37,110 --> 00:47:41,280Adam Curry: do we have anyoneany example of this being74900:47:41,760 --> 00:47:46,650created? Who is creating these?Is there so is there a host that75000:47:46,650 --> 00:47:47,640is creating these?75100:47:48,330 --> 00:47:52,890Dave Jones: Who I don't knowabout hosts? Maybe dovie Das?75200:47:55,320 --> 00:47:57,720Adam Curry: Because what was ourkind of unwritten rule one host75300:47:57,720 --> 00:47:58,530two apps?75400:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,040Dave Jones: Yeah, right. Yeah.Yeah, we've got I mean, that on75500:48:05,040 --> 00:48:07,740that part, I don't think that'llbe a problem. I think we'll have75600:48:08,370 --> 00:48:10,710two or three hosts in two orthree apps immediately. Yeah.75700:48:10,770 --> 00:48:12,750Adam Curry: And this is more formusic. Right. So this is75800:48:12,750 --> 00:48:15,480something we'd want we wouldhope wave leg would implement.75900:48:16,080 --> 00:48:16,260Yeah,76000:48:16,260 --> 00:48:18,960Dave Jones: Adobe does proposedis when Nathan say so that mean,76100:48:18,960 --> 00:48:21,690he's obviously going to do it.And Steven bass probably already76200:48:21,690 --> 00:48:24,390done it. Okay. So but it seemslike it's probably already76300:48:24,390 --> 00:48:25,230ready. Done it. Right.76400:48:25,260 --> 00:48:27,750Adam Curry: So it seems like formusic, this is really great for76500:48:27,750 --> 00:48:30,390music. I mean, for me, it's likeyeah, I don't necessarily need76600:48:30,390 --> 00:48:34,050to have a publisher feed. But Ican see this for it for music76700:48:34,080 --> 00:48:35,760makes a lot of sense. I can see.76800:48:37,470 --> 00:48:40,020Dave Jones: I mean, it's yeah,for music for sure. That's76900:48:40,020 --> 00:48:45,870that's the slam dunk. But I cansee that. I think you might want77000:48:45,870 --> 00:48:49,950to do it more than you think.Because it's it's really good.77100:48:50,340 --> 00:48:55,350For it's really good fordiscovery, like in a true way.77200:48:55,380 --> 00:48:59,520Because now, now you're not justsaying. So we've got this, these77300:48:59,520 --> 00:49:00,660attempts at Discovery.77400:49:00,750 --> 00:49:03,030Adam Curry: They were waitingfor pod roll to show up.77500:49:03,960 --> 00:49:05,880Dave Jones: We got we got tonsof pod roll. Yeah, but77600:49:05,880 --> 00:49:07,590Adam Curry: what apps aresurfacing them?77700:49:09,690 --> 00:49:13,890Dave Jones: ln URL, I mean,eskimi ln beats? Ellen beats77800:49:13,890 --> 00:49:15,450this is pulling pod rolls,right?77900:49:16,920 --> 00:49:18,660Unknown: I think I don't know.78000:49:19,710 --> 00:49:22,410Dave Jones: But bus bus browseshow in pod rolls all over the78100:49:22,410 --> 00:49:24,630place. Oh, no. But the true fansis shown pod78200:49:24,630 --> 00:49:29,370Adam Curry: rolls. No, I but noother apps that I use have. I'm78300:49:29,370 --> 00:49:33,000waiting for an app that I use tosay, Oh, here's a couple other78400:49:33,000 --> 00:49:38,910here's some recommendations fromthis podcast. I know people are78500:49:38,910 --> 00:49:41,370publishing I mean, I'mpublishing cross app comments.78600:49:43,200 --> 00:49:45,390There's lots of stuff that'sbeing published. I'm just I'm78700:49:45,390 --> 00:49:48,030just wondering if the apps ifany apps are showing it78800:49:53,760 --> 00:49:55,890Dave Jones: if they are have notgotten feedback, okay,78900:49:55,920 --> 00:49:59,130Adam Curry: well, and I'm a bigbeliever in is is a no yes. I'm79000:49:59,130 --> 00:50:03,330a big believer in publish first.And then you know that79100:50:03,330 --> 00:50:07,170information eventually an appmight want to implement that. So79200:50:07,290 --> 00:50:11,100just a reminder that we havethese things that people can put79300:50:11,100 --> 00:50:14,280into their UI and the UX andmake cool stuff is, when you79400:50:14,280 --> 00:50:16,530say, discovery, that's when Ijust go, Oh, really? Well, I'm79500:50:16,530 --> 00:50:20,040not discovering anything yet.Because the apps I use, don't79600:50:20,040 --> 00:50:22,620show me the pod roles. Or79700:50:23,550 --> 00:50:26,910Dave Jones: the pod roles, notin the API. But there is, but I79800:50:26,910 --> 00:50:30,720do publish it. Because it's alittle bit there's something79900:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,560Okay, so there's some thingslike pod roll, that are a little80000:50:34,560 --> 00:50:38,190awkward to publish as an API,they don't really feel API ish.80100:50:39,300 --> 00:50:43,620Because it's just a big longlist of like, it's, it's almost80200:50:43,620 --> 00:50:47,850like a it's almost like adatabase, you know what I mean?80300:50:47,850 --> 00:50:54,540Like, it's just a big humongouslist of things. That changes all80400:50:54,540 --> 00:50:58,830the time in a minute. It's, it'snot like your I don't know, it80500:50:58,830 --> 00:51:02,340just doesn't it seems odd topublish as an API response to80600:51:02,340 --> 00:51:04,530what I do with luck, things likethat. It's almost like it's like80700:51:04,530 --> 00:51:08,400the stats. But the stats thing,I don't publish that necessarily80800:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,170an API. Just I just publishthose to a to an object storage80900:51:13,170 --> 00:51:17,370location with a URL. So you canjust ping the URL every so81000:51:17,370 --> 00:51:20,820often, and get the new updatedstats, and you can get the new81100:51:20,820 --> 00:51:25,770updated pod rolls. And you canget the new updated value for81200:51:25,770 --> 00:51:28,920value music chart. And just alot of stuff like that this81300:51:28,920 --> 00:51:36,120digit doesn't feel very APIlike. So that's, so those things81400:51:36,120 --> 00:51:41,730are out there. If anybody, letme see if I need to make those.81500:51:42,000 --> 00:51:47,850You know, here's an issue. Ineed to make the locations of81600:51:47,850 --> 00:51:51,390some of these things because wepublish tons of stuff at81700:51:51,420 --> 00:51:55,110different URLs, likeundocumented stuff. Yeah. And81800:51:55,110 --> 00:51:57,330it's just I'm like, Hey, here'sthis thing. Here's where it's81900:51:57,330 --> 00:52:00,210gonna be. And it's just, it'sjust a toot. Okay.82000:52:01,350 --> 00:52:04,050Adam Curry: That'sdocumentation. Its timeline.82100:52:04,620 --> 00:52:07,020Dave Jones: Yeah, it's like,here's it, here it is. And82200:52:07,020 --> 00:52:12,540that's not really sufficient. Sowe probably need some sort of82300:52:12,540 --> 00:52:17,640dedicated resource that showswhere these non API locations82400:52:17,640 --> 00:52:18,660are. So people know. Okay,82500:52:18,660 --> 00:52:22,080Adam Curry: so. So pod roll isnot in the API.82600:52:23,940 --> 00:52:26,730Dave Jones: Pod rolls, not inthe API, but we are publishing82700:52:26,880 --> 00:52:30,780aggregated pod roll data thatanybody can use in their app82800:52:30,810 --> 00:52:33,180Adam Curry: aggregated. Right,right, right. Okay.82900:52:34,230 --> 00:52:35,970Dave Jones: Yeah, because wewent, we went through it.83000:52:38,610 --> 00:52:40,980Adam Curry: Was it not onlyrisky? I don't even remember83100:52:40,980 --> 00:52:44,490where it is. Right. But does itnot make sense to add pod roll83200:52:44,490 --> 00:52:48,420to the API? If you really wantto do discovery? So you know,83300:52:48,420 --> 00:52:53,670apps that are using the API cansay, Oh, here's some data, let83400:52:53,670 --> 00:52:55,740me find a place to put that.Well,83500:52:55,740 --> 00:52:58,530Dave Jones: it should probablybe put in the API documentation,83600:52:58,530 --> 00:53:01,560even if it's not in the APIitself. Because really, you83700:53:01,560 --> 00:53:03,960know, I mean, these locations,these object storage locations83800:53:03,960 --> 00:53:09,900is they're still part of, it'sstill the services we offer. And83900:53:10,920 --> 00:53:14,130so it kind of should be alldiscoverable through the same,84000:53:14,820 --> 00:53:18,420like, would call through thesame like channel, which is the84100:53:18,420 --> 00:53:19,560API documentation.84200:53:20,550 --> 00:53:22,320Adam Curry: Right. But there'snothing to document because we84300:53:22,320 --> 00:53:26,940don't have it yet. Now we gotit. We have aggregate we don't84400:53:26,940 --> 00:53:33,180have do we have individual? Soviral? If I Yeah. So if I ping,84500:53:33,480 --> 00:53:37,680if I asked the API for the feedinformation from podcasts and84600:53:37,680 --> 00:53:41,4302.0. At no point does the APIreturn the pod roll that I've84700:53:41,430 --> 00:53:42,090put in there?84800:53:46,920 --> 00:53:49,890Dave Jones: I don't think Idon't think it does yet.84900:53:49,950 --> 00:53:51,690Adam Curry: Okay. Well, thenthat would explain why most85000:53:51,690 --> 00:53:54,450people aren't used aren't aren'tadding that. Yes.85100:53:55,140 --> 00:53:59,610Dave Jones: This this. This isgonna sound crazy. But I lose85200:53:59,610 --> 00:54:01,170track of what I do. No,85300:54:01,170 --> 00:54:03,960Adam Curry: that doesn't soundcrazy at all. Not not No, no, it85400:54:03,960 --> 00:54:07,860doesn't. No, I seriously, I loveyou, brother. I'm just, you85500:54:07,860 --> 00:54:11,310know, you know why I'm here. I'mhere. I'm here for the chicks.85600:54:13,380 --> 00:54:17,610Dave Jones: Chicks. So there'sso many so85700:54:20,580 --> 00:54:22,650Adam Curry: No, I'm just sayingthat, you know, week so we85800:54:22,650 --> 00:54:26,580return cross app comments in theAPI, right, we return the route85900:54:26,580 --> 00:54:32,430post. Yeah. Okay. So just likethat when we have a feature,86000:54:32,700 --> 00:54:36,930which is something that's in thefeed, which is the pod roll. In86100:54:36,930 --> 00:54:40,500order for that discoverymechanism to crank up I think we86200:54:40,500 --> 00:54:44,610need to add that to theinformation. The API spits back86300:54:44,610 --> 00:54:49,200when a when an app says give methe latest. Then it needs to be86400:54:49,200 --> 00:54:52,290able to see Oh, pod roll. Okay,I'm seeing all because, yeah,86500:54:52,290 --> 00:54:57,480Buzzsprout has tons of pod rollsin their feeds. But and the86600:54:57,480 --> 00:55:00,720aggregated feed which I shouldprobably look at the That's I86700:55:00,720 --> 00:55:03,870don't know, if there's a if onlyJSON, I'm not going to be86800:55:03,870 --> 00:55:07,440looking at it. But if there's nolooking at the aggregated stuff86900:55:07,440 --> 00:55:12,000is nice. But for true discovery,very similar to this feature to87000:55:12,000 --> 00:55:16,740the publisher. It has to becoming from the API. So the app87100:55:16,740 --> 00:55:21,180developers can put that intotheir UI. I guess that's Is87200:55:21,180 --> 00:55:24,720that, am I assuming correctly?Yeah.87300:55:24,810 --> 00:55:28,950Dave Jones: It's a wish I knewwhether I'd already put this if87400:55:31,290 --> 00:55:34,470Adam Curry: it doesn't matterwhether you put it in or not. Do87500:55:34,470 --> 00:55:37,560we agree it should be in theAPI? So that that that's87600:55:37,560 --> 00:55:39,540something that can be used?Yeah.87700:55:39,540 --> 00:55:43,830Dave Jones: For Yeah, no, Iagree. I agree. I agree for87800:55:43,830 --> 00:55:48,930sure. Yeah. Let me actually, Ican probably check, see me log87900:55:48,930 --> 00:55:53,310in here. I can probably add, Ican pry x. And then88000:55:53,310 --> 00:55:55,350Adam Curry: of course, you know,credo would have to document it,88100:55:55,350 --> 00:55:58,170etc. Obviously, all that stuffcomes in. And I'm just, I love88200:55:58,170 --> 00:56:01,950these features. You know, andpeople can always do a look up88300:56:01,950 --> 00:56:05,910on the feed. But I think, youknow, you look at probably the88400:56:05,910 --> 00:56:10,230majority of the apps are relyingon the API. And, you know,88500:56:10,230 --> 00:56:13,380here's some great data that weshould add. Does88600:56:13,380 --> 00:56:15,930Dave Jones: this says StevenCrowder saves me from myself?88700:56:15,930 --> 00:56:19,500Because I'll put something inand he'll be like, Hey, I'm not88800:56:19,500 --> 00:56:23,310documenting this. Yes. Be itbecause of x y&z Okay. Yeah.88900:56:23,340 --> 00:56:28,800Yes, thank you. I'm trying tofind a fee that I know has a pod89000:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,750robust cast. I know they have aplateau.89100:56:31,290 --> 00:56:33,990Adam Curry: So I get this allstems from you said is great for89200:56:33,990 --> 00:56:37,440discovery. And then that justtriggered me in to say, I'm not89300:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,080discovering anything. And I'mnot just I'm not even89400:56:40,080 --> 00:56:45,240discovering my own my own podrole. Which I have a pod role on89500:56:45,240 --> 00:56:48,180this show and no agenda oncarrying the keeper. Yeah, I put89600:56:48,180 --> 00:56:52,290the pod. We've got one. Yeah,yeah, we got pod roll, a pod89700:56:52,290 --> 00:56:52,560row.89800:56:53,700 --> 00:56:55,830Dave Jones: See, okay, well,then I can check our feet then.89900:56:56,250 --> 00:57:01,710On 20666, you know, by heart?Oh, yeah. And no agenda is 415.90000:57:01,710 --> 00:57:09,450Before. There is no pod rolebeing returned in the API. So90100:57:09,750 --> 00:57:10,590that is a negative.90200:57:10,680 --> 00:57:12,240Adam Curry: All right, butthere's one. Let me just let me90300:57:12,240 --> 00:57:15,180just make sure I'm not full ofcrap here. I'll show info pod90400:57:15,180 --> 00:57:19,200roll. Yes, I believe you domedia show pod news, weekly90500:57:19,200 --> 00:57:20,730review. Look at this discovery.90600:57:22,920 --> 00:57:25,110Dave Jones: You just discovered,what are you blame? I know,90700:57:25,200 --> 00:57:27,120Adam Curry: it's in mypublishing app. Of course.90800:57:27,120 --> 00:57:29,880That's where I discovered thestuff I put in there. It works90900:57:29,880 --> 00:57:30,450perfectly.91000:57:30,930 --> 00:57:32,220Dave Jones: It's called ViewSource.91100:57:33,900 --> 00:57:35,160Adam Curry: Yes, View Source.91200:57:36,390 --> 00:57:37,170Dave Jones: Notepad.91300:57:39,030 --> 00:57:42,570Adam Curry: Okay, so I thinkeveryone agrees everyone likes91400:57:42,570 --> 00:57:43,980the publisher.91500:57:46,500 --> 00:57:48,000Dave Jones: Nobody complainedabout it91600:57:48,030 --> 00:57:51,570Adam Curry: now. But it will begreat to have these things91700:57:51,570 --> 00:57:57,540obviously in the in the API.That just makes sense.91800:57:58,260 --> 00:58:01,260Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. When thepublisher stuff goes down? Well,91900:58:01,590 --> 00:58:06,870yeah, well, for sure. Like, ifwe'll fish this, this will be92000:58:06,870 --> 00:58:10,080like a big circular karate chop.We'll just do all this. You92100:58:10,080 --> 00:58:13,230know, we'll pod roll publisher,we'll just Yeah, okay.92200:58:13,740 --> 00:58:17,010Adam Curry: All right. Allright, good. Then authorization,92300:58:17,310 --> 00:58:20,670which used to be known as aneffing email address in your92400:58:20,670 --> 00:58:28,410feed. Okay. So now we havepodcast verify ownership. What92500:58:28,410 --> 00:58:29,040is this?92600:58:32,790 --> 00:58:39,300Dave Jones: This is this is amostly developed spec that never92700:58:39,840 --> 00:58:45,690got views dished. You never gotproof of concept, proof of92800:58:45,690 --> 00:58:52,860concept ID. So, basically, Ithink where we're at with this92900:58:52,860 --> 00:58:57,780one is we just need to, I startI got halfway through Oh, more93000:58:57,780 --> 00:59:01,800than halfway like 75% of the waythrough, building a proof of93100:59:01,800 --> 00:59:07,200concept. book after I had a longconversation with Tom Rossi one93200:59:07,200 --> 00:59:13,110day as he drove down the coastof Florida. And we hashed this,93300:59:13,140 --> 00:59:16,410Adam Curry: we were you playingBarry Manilow on the radio and93400:59:16,410 --> 00:59:18,000while you were having thislittle chat,93500:59:19,410 --> 00:59:25,560Dave Jones: Mandy? No. So we, wehashed it out. And then I had to93600:59:25,560 --> 00:59:28,290wait. We had a way forward.Because he's the one that93700:59:28,290 --> 00:59:31,950proposed like the spec and thediscussion thread. It's kind of93800:59:31,950 --> 00:59:36,630a mess, but but we did get usget sort of a consensus out of93900:59:36,630 --> 00:59:40,830it. And then I got about 75% ofthe way through this proof of94000:59:40,830 --> 00:59:44,010concept where I was going tobake this into podcast or94100:59:44,010 --> 00:59:48,120wallet. I don't know I gotreally excited about that94200:59:48,120 --> 00:59:58,050wallet. And so the it's it'slike almost finished in there.94300:59:58,740 --> 01:00:00,780But as you need to get back andfinish it So I can find and make94401:00:00,780 --> 01:00:07,860the podcast or wallet. The proofof concept for the authorization94501:00:07,890 --> 01:00:12,900spec, then we're good. We'regood.94601:00:14,580 --> 01:00:18,300Adam Curry: And is this worthexplaining how that94701:00:18,330 --> 01:00:21,990authorization will work? Is thatwhat is what is the workflow?94801:00:22,560 --> 01:00:22,950No,94901:00:23,580 --> 01:00:28,530Dave Jones: I forgot. Just getreally. But it's there's some95001:00:28,530 --> 01:00:32,580details that I'm not prepared todiscuss. Because the it's95101:00:32,580 --> 01:00:36,840basically it's not. You justhave it's like a handshake.95201:00:36,840 --> 01:00:40,110You're you're passing a tokenback and forth. To just prove95301:00:40,110 --> 01:00:43,920that you are who you are. Youare who you say you are. That95401:00:43,920 --> 01:00:48,390will like when I get off of theAPI bridge,95501:00:49,530 --> 01:00:52,110Adam Curry: yeah, that's gotyou. That's got you're pretty95601:00:52,140 --> 01:00:54,690pretty engaged. So just to95701:00:54,690 --> 01:00:56,220Dave Jones: talk about that,too. Yeah, no, I95801:00:56,220 --> 01:00:58,680Adam Curry: have it on the list.I have it on the list. But I95901:00:58,680 --> 01:01:02,730just wanted to mention on truefans.fm, I go to podcasting to96001:01:02,730 --> 01:01:06,270point out, I go to therecommendations tab, and there's96101:01:06,270 --> 01:01:06,990my pod roll.96201:01:08,490 --> 01:01:09,240Dave Jones: So what No,96301:01:10,710 --> 01:01:14,220Adam Curry: and Gordon's TRUEfans.fm TRUE fans, the SAM Sethi96401:01:14,220 --> 01:01:19,620platform, and and I go to the toour show podcasting to porno,96501:01:19,650 --> 01:01:22,470um, there's a tab episodes,which is default. And there's96601:01:22,470 --> 01:01:25,650one recommendations, I click onrecommendations. And there are96701:01:25,650 --> 01:01:29,370the four shows that I have inthe pod roll. That's discovery.96801:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,520That's exactly now Sam ispulling that from the feed.96901:01:33,300 --> 01:01:37,380Yeah. Right. So for apps thatdon't pull from the feed, that's97001:01:37,380 --> 01:01:39,960great. I love this. That'sexactly what I'm talking about.97101:01:39,960 --> 01:01:40,890That's discovery.97201:01:43,170 --> 01:01:46,290Dave Jones: No, it's easier thanview source. It's a little97301:01:46,290 --> 01:01:49,590prettier, which also works, butit's a longer process. Yeah.97401:01:50,070 --> 01:01:53,370Adam Curry: So that's cool. Butand, yeah, I'd love for apps to97501:01:53,370 --> 01:01:55,530have that for sure. For sure.97601:01:58,230 --> 01:02:02,040Dave Jones: Yeah, so Soauthorization. I think we're,97701:02:02,430 --> 01:02:04,830that's the thing with phaseseven. There's a lot of stuff in97801:02:04,830 --> 01:02:05,610here that we've97901:02:06,690 --> 01:02:08,460Adam Curry: we've talked about,we've talked about a lot of98001:02:08,460 --> 01:02:09,870these. Yeah,98101:02:09,870 --> 01:02:14,070Dave Jones: like these arethings that are like half half98201:02:14,070 --> 01:02:19,170or more than halfway bakedalready. And we're gonna have a98301:02:19,170 --> 01:02:25,080get Alex coming on the show nextweek to discuss categories so98401:02:25,080 --> 01:02:27,720that we can get like musicgenres and these kinds of98501:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,990things. So this is in this is athing that we've we've hashed98601:02:30,990 --> 01:02:34,950out a lot. We've also got thecontent links back to discuss98701:02:34,980 --> 01:02:36,960I'm gonna think I'm gonna graban eighth and have him on the98801:02:36,960 --> 01:02:40,350show if we can figure out a goodtime for him. So what can I ask98901:02:40,350 --> 01:02:41,190content when I asked99001:02:41,190 --> 01:02:43,320Adam Curry: you things aboutphase seven before we before we99101:02:43,320 --> 01:02:52,650move on? Yeah, sure. So chat.Now because chat, as far as I99201:02:52,650 --> 01:02:57,990know, there's one or two appsthat just take the IRC version,99301:02:57,990 --> 01:03:02,190but the O'Casey there's XMPP isin there. Okay, so So there,99401:03:02,340 --> 01:03:05,520there are, this is pretty wellfleshed out it just no one has99501:03:05,520 --> 01:03:09,480really implemented an XMPP chatas far as I know. Yeah,99601:03:09,480 --> 01:03:11,760Dave Jones: that's another Yeah.Chats. Another one. That's like,99701:03:12,000 --> 01:03:17,370I mean, it's like, at least 75%done. I mean, it's not isn't a99801:03:17,370 --> 01:03:19,920it's not, you know, like you canyou can put a toothpick in that99901:03:19,920 --> 01:03:22,080thing, and there's nothingsticking to it. It's almost100001:03:22,080 --> 01:03:27,210ready. Okay. So I think a lot ofphase seven is gonna go when100101:03:27,240 --> 01:03:31,140it's gonna go fast. When we getto that point where we start,100201:03:31,350 --> 01:03:34,800you know, pulling the trigger onthings. Okay.100301:03:36,300 --> 01:03:39,930Adam Curry: All right. And thenthe other one was, I saw a large100401:03:39,930 --> 01:03:41,640discussion about categories.100501:03:42,960 --> 01:03:44,430Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't wantto I don't want to talk about100601:03:44,430 --> 01:03:50,400categories. And I don't want totalk about content link. Because100701:03:50,460 --> 01:03:51,690Content link is not in100801:03:51,690 --> 01:03:55,380Adam Curry: phase seven is no.Yeah, it is. Yeah. Oh, it is. I100901:03:55,380 --> 01:04:00,030didn't see it. Maybe I'm not Idon't see it in line. Now. It's101001:04:00,030 --> 01:04:04,620not in phase seven. Please. No,there it is. No, I see.101101:04:05,970 --> 01:04:11,850Dave Jones: You're right. Wait,it's not? Yes, it is. Yes. It101201:04:11,850 --> 01:04:17,940is. No, it's not. Okay. Yeah,let's, yeah, I think I think101301:04:17,940 --> 01:04:21,000it's not in there. Because Iworked on everything last night.101401:04:21,000 --> 01:04:24,090I think it was not in therebecause a read. By the time I101501:04:24,090 --> 01:04:26,880got finished reading through allthe comments, I had new less101601:04:26,880 --> 01:04:27,660than when I started.101701:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,860Adam Curry: All right categoryseems to still be up in the air101801:04:31,860 --> 01:04:37,770about I guess the main the maindiscussion is predetermined or101901:04:37,770 --> 01:04:38,310not.102001:04:39,870 --> 01:04:43,980Dave Jones: Right. And I think Ithink what everybody, everybody102101:04:43,980 --> 01:04:47,700who has a real interest in this,I think wants it to be not.102201:04:48,600 --> 01:04:50,760Yeah, they want these things tobe freeform.102301:04:52,500 --> 01:04:55,500Adam Curry: Right. And if Irecall from our discussion, we'd102401:04:55,500 --> 01:04:59,760like that because when you takeit to the bridge, and you look102501:04:59,760 --> 01:05:04,350at Activity pub. The hashtagsare not predetermined, but102601:05:04,350 --> 01:05:07,290they're searchable. There's awhole universe of them already.102701:05:07,290 --> 01:05:13,140There's an infrastructure thataccepts the concept of, although102801:05:13,170 --> 01:05:16,350you could argue whether it's acategory or a topic, I think102901:05:16,350 --> 01:05:19,230that's probably something wecould argue forever. But that103001:05:19,230 --> 01:05:20,940was kind of the idea, right?103101:05:22,260 --> 01:05:27,120Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. So theidea was that if you the103201:05:27,120 --> 01:05:29,970problem, the problem with thecategory with categories as they103301:05:29,970 --> 01:05:33,810stand right now, like I said, Iwant to get too deep into this.103401:05:33,810 --> 01:05:36,450But the problem with with themis they haven't asked some103501:05:36,480 --> 01:05:41,910there's a there's a secretcounsel, you have to go to to103601:05:41,910 --> 01:05:45,330petition to get new categories.Right. That's always a problem.103701:05:45,360 --> 01:05:48,450Yeah. And then we don't want to,we don't want to just recreate103801:05:48,450 --> 01:05:52,200that same problem, you know, wewant this thing to function as,103901:05:52,680 --> 01:05:57,390yeah. Like activity pub doeswhere, you know, things.104001:05:57,450 --> 01:06:02,070Consensus builds naturallyaround a hashtag. Yeah.104101:06:02,520 --> 01:06:06,000Adam Curry: Which is what thewhole world kind of has moved104201:06:06,000 --> 01:06:07,380towards his hashtags.104301:06:08,190 --> 01:06:12,600Dave Jones: Yeah, even. Evenemail, like Gmail has just104401:06:12,600 --> 01:06:13,080labels.104501:06:13,110 --> 01:06:14,940Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly.There's the late Yeah,104601:06:14,970 --> 01:06:18,270precisely. All right. I'm sorry.I thought you wanted to talk104701:06:18,270 --> 01:06:20,490about namespace. It sounds likeI made you uncomfortable.104801:06:21,030 --> 01:06:23,760Dave Jones: No, no, no, that'snot at all. It's just there was104901:06:24,090 --> 01:06:27,810the stuff we did talk about. Ithink it was good to talk about105001:06:27,810 --> 01:06:31,470the other stuff. I think it'stoo complicated. They, like each105101:06:31,470 --> 01:06:36,450one of those really needs itsown, like full show. Oh, boy.105201:06:36,900 --> 01:06:41,340Okay, you know, because becausethe whole show, categories, like105301:06:41,340 --> 01:06:44,610we need, we need Alex on here,because he's gonna He's, he's105401:06:44,610 --> 01:06:45,180always coming105501:06:45,180 --> 01:06:46,890Adam Curry: right through themonth route. We got him at the105601:06:46,890 --> 01:06:49,920end of the month, coming nextweek. Okay, so that's the end of105701:06:49,920 --> 01:06:54,900the month. went fast and wentreal fast. All right, let's talk105801:06:54,900 --> 01:06:56,760about the Fed suffocation,because that's what you've been105901:06:56,760 --> 01:06:58,800working on. That's where yourhead's at. I mean, I know it, I106001:06:58,800 --> 01:07:02,550see it. You've been doing youwere doing so many tests that I106101:07:02,550 --> 01:07:05,910zoned out. I'm like, I don'tknow what to test. I don't know106201:07:05,910 --> 01:07:09,810what's working. Just I'll stayaway. And I could only make it106301:07:09,810 --> 01:07:11,640worse by jumping in and sayingsomething.106401:07:13,020 --> 01:07:20,100Dave Jones: Yes, the the, thelatest that we that I put in106501:07:20,100 --> 01:07:25,740was? Well, what I did last nightwas I made some changes to add106601:07:25,740 --> 01:07:31,890deep links to the apps. So now,when a new episode post comes106701:07:31,890 --> 01:07:34,050through, oh,106801:07:34,080 --> 01:07:37,620Adam Curry: that's what thatwas. Oh, okay. Yeah, no. And106901:07:37,620 --> 01:07:42,120that's why you asked if the appscould make Mastodon profiles.107001:07:43,410 --> 01:07:46,200Dave Jones: Or somebody Yeah,somebody else was among humans107101:07:46,200 --> 01:07:46,560now.107201:07:47,790 --> 01:07:50,070Adam Curry: Even B or Chad F orone of those dudes107301:07:50,100 --> 01:07:57,660Dave Jones: chat F Yeah. Sothat's thanks to Nathan's long107401:07:57,810 --> 01:08:03,120list of of deep link URL spec.On GitHub, I was able to put107501:08:03,120 --> 01:08:07,860that in there. The deep linkingto episodes directly is a107601:08:07,860 --> 01:08:13,830complete mess. And most mostapps use some sort of internal107701:08:13,830 --> 01:08:18,540ID as the way to do that for theepisode why they don't use an107801:08:18,540 --> 01:08:23,340episode guid at, I don't know,some sort of hash of the, of the107901:08:23,340 --> 01:08:27,300feed URL plus the good. I mean,it just seems a little odd to me108001:08:27,300 --> 01:08:29,940that there's so many that youuse platform dependent108101:08:29,940 --> 01:08:31,860identifiers, but whatever. Okay,108201:08:31,860 --> 01:08:42,150Adam Curry: so, so I'm justlooking here Okay, so, where's108301:08:42,150 --> 01:08:47,640the podcasting? 2.0 Did we get alive thing hold on podcasting?108401:08:47,640 --> 01:08:53,0402.0 Let me just take a look atthe Nerdist podcasting 2.0 It108501:08:53,040 --> 01:08:57,690has now we didn't get a liveitem108601:09:01,320 --> 01:09:02,910Dave Jones: that must besomething that broke108701:09:04,019 --> 01:09:08,729Adam Curry: so the idea is thatin that in that post from that108801:09:08,759 --> 01:09:16,679podcast is 9206668 PETA podcastindex.org That would have deep108901:09:16,679 --> 01:09:21,629links to the podcast apps that'sgoing to be loaded109001:09:22,350 --> 01:09:29,250Dave Jones: Yeah, look at lookat the one from pod News Daily109101:09:29,250 --> 01:09:34,140this morning. The post that camethrough because that has an also109201:09:34,140 --> 01:09:37,950there's image excuse me episodeimage art in there and not just109301:09:37,950 --> 01:09:43,080feed in image art. Oh, nice.Okay, album art. Let me signal109401:09:43,080 --> 01:09:43,620No, wait, that's109501:09:43,620 --> 01:09:44,520Adam Curry: not the right one.That's109601:09:44,520 --> 01:09:46,170Dave Jones: not there we go. Ijust sent it to you through109701:09:46,170 --> 01:09:53,550signal. Look at that and you'llsee what it looks like. Okay.109801:09:56,070 --> 01:09:57,960Oh, yes, LPP just posted it.109901:09:58,560 --> 01:10:03,150Adam Curry: Nice. Yeah. Thatlooks cool. Yeah, so that's very110001:10:03,150 --> 01:10:04,590cool. Okay,110101:10:04,620 --> 01:10:07,080Dave Jones: it's got lots oflinks to each of the individual.110201:10:07,770 --> 01:10:17,160What I did was put in links to2.0 apps, open source apps, and110301:10:17,160 --> 01:10:19,950apps that we have a relationshipwith. So like, even though110401:10:19,950 --> 01:10:23,190overcast is not a 2.0 app whenMarco donates to the show, and110501:10:23,190 --> 01:10:26,910he's supportive of what we'redoing so we've got put them at110601:10:26,910 --> 01:10:27,450the bottom110701:10:34,320 --> 01:10:36,510you know, Pocket Casts we'vehad, you know, we've got a110801:10:36,510 --> 01:10:38,400decent relationship with thoseguys, even though they're not110901:10:38,400 --> 01:10:42,480doing a whole lot yet. So we,we've, so that's, that's in111001:10:42,480 --> 01:10:46,170there. And then if you just fallback, you can just fall back to111101:10:46,290 --> 01:10:50,760you know, listening to theenclosure in the browser. At the111201:10:50,760 --> 01:10:53,220bottom at the at the verybottom, so111301:10:53,220 --> 01:10:55,590Adam Curry: Yeah, listen, that'sthe listen. Yeah.111401:10:56,220 --> 01:10:59,880Dave Jones: So that's, that'swhere that's the latest thing111501:10:59,880 --> 01:11:03,390that that I've added. But we hada bunch of stuff this midweek111601:11:03,390 --> 01:11:06,810and I kind of wanted to delveinto this for a second because111701:11:07,860 --> 01:11:11,880the developer is His name is hishandle is silver pill, he111801:11:11,910 --> 01:11:17,610develops the activity pubsoftware written in Rust called111901:11:17,700 --> 01:11:18,270Mitra,112001:11:18,360 --> 01:11:19,230Adam Curry: I follow it.112101:11:21,420 --> 01:11:27,000Dave Jones: Super helpful dudehelped a lot with getting stuff112201:11:27,000 --> 01:11:34,380working. Because we were not thebridge was failing to he was112301:11:34,380 --> 01:11:37,890trying to follow from Maitre apodcast, it just wasn't working.112401:11:38,700 --> 01:11:41,160And it ended up being twodifferent things and ended up112501:11:41,160 --> 01:11:49,620being a signature validation bugon his side, and a and a type A112601:11:49,620 --> 01:11:56,460D serialization problem on theon my side. And, you know, so112701:11:56,460 --> 01:11:59,520we've, we hashed it out over afew days and got it got it112801:11:59,520 --> 01:12:04,740working. But you know, it, itmade me start thinking about a112901:12:04,740 --> 01:12:08,400lot of things with the bridge,in my original intent going into113001:12:08,400 --> 01:12:15,060this week was, and when I got ithalf way built, was to start113101:12:15,060 --> 01:12:19,590recording a reply, you know,like, noting replies, so did you113201:12:19,590 --> 01:12:23,100so we record the replies thathappen, so that we can give the113301:12:23,100 --> 01:12:26,040replies back so people use theseas route posts.113401:12:26,070 --> 01:12:27,180Adam Curry: Yeah, exactly.113501:12:29,160 --> 01:12:33,300Dave Jones: The and I think I'm,I think I'm backing out of that113601:12:40,050 --> 01:12:46,290step put up, put out the orangecones back. Okay. And so the A113701:12:46,290 --> 01:12:51,150think so, there's a, there's abunch of stuff going on here. I113801:12:51,150 --> 01:12:54,360mean, number one, and not to bediscounted as what you what's113901:12:54,360 --> 01:13:00,990going on with no gender social.There's, you know, I think the114001:13:00,990 --> 01:13:07,050activity pub fediverse world isgoing is seeing the need to go114101:13:07,050 --> 01:13:13,440more towards much smallerinstances Totally agree. People114201:13:13,440 --> 01:13:21,690need to have more, either see,they need to have and or more114301:13:21,690 --> 01:13:27,870ownership over their ownpresence, or their own profile.114401:13:29,970 --> 01:13:41,820And smaller tribes is, it'sthese, these, these monumentally114501:13:42,570 --> 01:13:47,730large instances, I think, aremore, they're causing more114601:13:47,730 --> 01:13:52,860problems than they solve. And sothere's the potential and then,114701:13:52,890 --> 01:13:57,780you know, I'm already thinkingin this way. And then Spurlock114801:13:57,780 --> 01:14:00,450throws in this thing, and I'mtalking about replies and114901:14:00,450 --> 01:14:05,190getting this stuff to work. Andhe says, he said something to115001:14:05,190 --> 01:14:10,500the effect of you know, thething where the brain like,115101:14:10,920 --> 01:14:14,340where you begin to get it withwith activity Pub is the when115201:14:14,340 --> 01:14:20,040you realize everything is local.Primary primarily everything is115301:14:20,040 --> 01:14:26,160local first, then things getfederated out between instances.115401:14:27,600 --> 01:14:30,930And you know, and my reply tothat was you know, that's the115501:14:30,930 --> 01:14:33,540issue with the with the activitypub bread with the with the115601:14:33,540 --> 01:14:37,530podcast index, AP bridge is thatthere is there's nothing as115701:14:37,530 --> 01:14:41,640local. I mean, there is no youdon't have nothing gets, there's115801:14:41,640 --> 01:14:44,160no even there's not even a senseof local if115901:14:44,160 --> 01:14:50,280Adam Curry: I if I follow it onmy my instance, SIOP shop.com116001:14:52,170 --> 01:14:55,650Then it's just it's in theinbox. They're on my machine.116101:14:56,970 --> 01:15:01,560Dave Jones: Right? Yeah, you gotHave you got the post delivered116201:15:01,560 --> 01:15:05,910to you? And there's never likethe pot, the different podcast116301:15:05,910 --> 01:15:08,220actors on the bridge, they don'ttalk to each other. Right?116401:15:08,640 --> 01:15:12,660There's nothing local about it.Everything is remote. These are116501:15:12,660 --> 01:15:15,270just pod, these are just poststhat are getting delivered to116601:15:15,270 --> 01:15:21,030the instances where where thepeople live. Yeah. So in that116701:15:21,030 --> 01:15:25,740sense, that's kind of a greatposition to be in really,116801:15:26,250 --> 01:15:29,580because what's happening is theepisodes are getting, let's just116901:15:29,580 --> 01:15:33,510talk call these posts episode,the episode posts are getting117001:15:33,510 --> 01:15:37,680delivered to all the instances.And then the instances the117101:15:37,680 --> 01:15:40,470people on the instance can dowhatever they want with them.117201:15:42,030 --> 01:15:49,200It's now it now becomes up tothe individual tribe to react117301:15:49,260 --> 01:15:52,590and deal with that postwhichever way they want. And so117401:15:52,590 --> 01:15:57,990like if you have a post, if youhave a an A instance, and117501:15:57,990 --> 01:16:04,560activitypub instance, with awhole bunch of people who are,117601:16:06,150 --> 01:16:09,660you know, a whole bunch ofpeople who are anti anti climate117701:16:09,660 --> 01:16:15,390change, or climate change,advocate AdvoCare and I know117801:16:15,390 --> 01:16:19,740what deniers No, not theopposite of deniers, confirm117901:16:19,740 --> 01:16:21,150errs climate change.118001:16:22,590 --> 01:16:26,520Adam Curry: Wait, hold on. Letme let me short let me shortcut118101:16:26,520 --> 01:16:30,060maybe, let me see if Iunderstand this. What you're118201:16:30,060 --> 01:16:36,660saying is it makes more sensethat if podcasting next out118301:16:36,660 --> 01:16:43,530social, publishes an episode,and then I'm subscribing to that118401:16:43,530 --> 01:16:51,240on my own instance, then peopleresponding to that to that quote118501:16:51,240 --> 01:16:56,820unquote route post that thoseresponses are primarily for them118601:16:56,940 --> 01:17:00,210for that local instance. Andthere may be a whole different118701:17:00,210 --> 01:17:05,700set of conversations going on onMastodon dot social on that same118801:17:05,760 --> 01:17:06,960episode, essentially.118901:17:07,470 --> 01:17:11,130Dave Jones: Yeah, exactly.Exactly. So So yeah, that's119001:17:11,130 --> 01:17:14,550interesting as Michael MichaelShellenberger who's on who's on119101:17:14,550 --> 01:17:19,590a podcast as a guest, thatpodcast in you have somebody on119201:17:19,800 --> 01:17:24,090climate accelerationist dotsocial, who follows that podcast119301:17:24,090 --> 01:17:27,060and you have somebody on climatedeniers does social he follows119401:17:27,060 --> 01:17:29,070that podcast? And so that119501:17:29,670 --> 01:17:33,300Adam Curry: that's two differentcommon threads? Yeah, that119601:17:33,300 --> 01:17:35,970Dave Jones: are not even relatedto one like they don't interact.119701:17:36,300 --> 01:17:42,690Why? Whereas if we sort ofbridge the gap between him start119801:17:42,690 --> 01:17:46,860recording all these all thesereplies and giving them back,119901:17:47,460 --> 01:17:53,280all we're doing is becoming thethe flashpoint for for for crowd120001:17:53,820 --> 01:17:57,540for Yeah, for problematic. So,garbage.120101:17:57,570 --> 01:18:02,370Adam Curry: I'm with you here.Okay. So okay, I'm not quite120201:18:02,370 --> 01:18:06,180sure how the where the how, whatthe what route posts I put into120301:18:06,180 --> 01:18:10,320my feed, that's kind ofirrelevant for the moment. But120401:18:10,320 --> 01:18:14,160okay, so you have two distinctdifferent instances, Mastodon120501:18:14,160 --> 01:18:17,880instances, just just making anamp Neo Pleroma doesn't matter.120601:18:18,330 --> 01:18:22,350So the acceleration is they havetheir thread. And then so one120701:18:22,350 --> 01:18:26,250person, I guess whoeversubscribe, someone subscribe to120801:18:27,270 --> 01:18:31,770that podcast on their onmastodon.so. The deceleration is120901:18:31,800 --> 01:18:37,590thread. And they comment. Isthere ever a moment where those121001:18:37,590 --> 01:18:42,000comments can crossover? Or doesthat mean that someone has to121101:18:42,000 --> 01:18:46,830comment from the deceleration ison the acceleration thread?121201:18:47,940 --> 01:18:50,550Dave Jones: If the only timethere would be a crossover is if121301:18:50,550 --> 01:18:54,840somebody was intentionallymentioned, if somebody's handle121401:18:54,900 --> 01:18:57,750so if somebody from the climate?I think I121501:18:57,750 --> 01:19:00,030Adam Curry: think this is themost genius thing I've ever121601:19:00,030 --> 01:19:05,910heard. And I'll tell you why.This is exactly why tick tock is121701:19:05,910 --> 01:19:09,870successful. Tick tock issuccessful because their121801:19:09,870 --> 01:19:16,620algorithm bundles people who arein agreement instead of what X121901:19:16,620 --> 01:19:21,150does, which is throw in peoplewho disagree and create activity122001:19:21,150 --> 01:19:27,000of people fighting. I like thisa lot. Because now you you can122101:19:27,000 --> 01:19:31,260have two different conversationsin quote unquote, tribes. You122201:19:31,260 --> 01:19:35,580can always tag somebody and thenyou can you can bring the you122301:19:35,580 --> 01:19:40,620can bring stuff in. But I thinkit will be much more successful122401:19:40,650 --> 01:19:44,220in the way you just describedit. That's really mind blowing.122501:19:45,420 --> 01:19:50,280Dave Jones: Yes, I think bydefault, if we if we do not122601:19:50,280 --> 01:19:55,650track replies and return them aspart of the poster as part of122701:19:55,650 --> 01:20:00,570the post request, we don't thenwe don't become we Never we do122801:20:00,570 --> 01:20:03,810not get involved in themoderation cycle at all. Right?122901:20:03,810 --> 01:20:07,770We don't actually contain any ofthis content. And there's no,123001:20:08,010 --> 01:20:12,120there's by default, no crosspollination between these123101:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,720different tribes, unless theyintend, but I think123201:20:15,720 --> 01:20:20,310Adam Curry: that's, that isgenius. Because it removes so123301:20:20,310 --> 01:20:24,870much of the problem. Thehostility, oh, yeah, you just123401:20:24,870 --> 01:20:27,300gonna get that, I mean, justgonna get tons of it, then you123501:20:27,300 --> 01:20:30,900can still create that if youknow people do that anyway,123601:20:30,900 --> 01:20:35,730cross instance, I mean, hello,milk, milk made dot dot post or123701:20:35,730 --> 01:20:39,420dot club, whatever, you didn'teven know what they don't want123801:20:39,420 --> 01:20:44,640to know. But, you know, sopeople can still, you know, can123901:20:44,640 --> 01:20:50,100still have that true crosscommunity comment thread, but124001:20:50,100 --> 01:20:53,730they don't have to. I thinkthat's really interesting. Now,124101:20:53,730 --> 01:20:57,180I don't know how podcasters willfeel about that. I personally, I124201:20:57,180 --> 01:21:00,930love it, you know, I probablywon't even be able to know what124301:21:00,930 --> 01:21:02,730people are saying somewhereelse.124401:21:03,600 --> 01:21:06,150Dave Jones: Well, here's, here'show it would look, in practical124501:21:06,150 --> 01:21:11,130terms for a podcaster who's,who's doing something like this124601:21:11,130 --> 01:21:13,620with cross app comments, he wasemploying this with cross out124701:21:13,620 --> 01:21:21,660comments. There, they make athey, they make a post to their,124801:21:22,140 --> 01:21:25,500to their instance. So they'regoing to be, you know, they're124901:21:25,500 --> 01:21:27,900going to be in control of thisand make a post to their local125001:21:27,900 --> 01:21:34,110instance. And they follow the,their own podcast on their125101:21:34,110 --> 01:21:40,560activity pub bridge. So thenthey they set that as the route125201:21:40,560 --> 01:21:48,150post on their episode. And nowtheir, their copy of their copy125301:21:48,150 --> 01:21:52,290of that episode is now the routepost. So now everything, they're125401:21:52,620 --> 01:21:57,150their income, they become theowner in effect of everything,125501:21:57,540 --> 01:22:01,140of everything, everything that'sattached to that. So you are125601:22:01,140 --> 01:22:04,500attached to the AP bridge. Now.It's right there instance.125701:22:04,530 --> 01:22:07,440Adam Curry: So I'll seeeverything in my instance.125801:22:08,670 --> 01:22:12,660Dave Jones: Right. And you canmoderate everything to because125901:22:12,660 --> 01:22:13,680you're there. It's your126001:22:13,680 --> 01:22:17,730Adam Curry: it's my instance.Right. Oh, interesting. Yeah,126101:22:17,730 --> 01:22:20,760Dave Jones: that everything islocal thing was just an offhand126201:22:20,760 --> 01:22:28,500comment. It by bus Burleigh. Butit really does. It's, it's the126301:22:28,500 --> 01:22:32,070answered to the way all of thisneeds to happen. Because126401:22:33,090 --> 01:22:36,510Adam Curry: the answer to thequestion that's been on my mind.126501:22:39,990 --> 01:22:43,410Dave Jones: Yeah, so you can't?Yeah, I think that's I think126601:22:43,410 --> 01:22:46,410that's the way we need to go. Ithink I'm just gonna bail out of126701:22:46,500 --> 01:22:50,010of applause. I think I don'tthink we need to be involved in126801:22:50,010 --> 01:22:50,160but126901:22:50,160 --> 01:22:54,660Adam Curry: this is this isactually, almost by definition,127001:22:54,660 --> 01:22:58,470this also solves the solveseverything this solves all the127101:22:58,470 --> 01:23:02,130problems we had with cross appcomments. Granted, it's, it's127201:23:02,160 --> 01:23:05,460quote unquote, limited toactivity pub. But I think127301:23:05,460 --> 01:23:09,510activity Pub is one of the mostimportant technologies, cross127401:23:09,600 --> 01:23:12,930application technologies thathas ever been developed in my127501:23:12,930 --> 01:23:13,590lifetime.127601:23:14,490 --> 01:23:19,950Dave Jones: A fully agree and Ithink if we if we do things127701:23:19,950 --> 01:23:25,830right, I think that RSS and a tome RSS and activity pub, or127801:23:26,850 --> 01:23:30,270native bedfellows, I think theyare complementary to one127901:23:30,270 --> 01:23:34,110another. And I think that we cansort of glue these things128001:23:34,110 --> 01:23:36,870together in a way that's prettykick ass.128101:23:37,320 --> 01:23:40,110Adam Curry: Man, I love it. I'msure128201:23:41,370 --> 01:23:44,400Dave Jones: that because becauseyou met imagine, so what, here's128301:23:44,430 --> 01:23:50,460because the next step, the nextstep beyond this is, you know,128401:23:50,490 --> 01:23:55,650is putting things into your feedthat you want to be expressed in128501:23:55,650 --> 01:24:01,440activity pub. So the feed is thesource of truth, that activity128601:24:01,440 --> 01:24:05,160pub bridge will just express thetruth things that are in your128701:24:05,160 --> 01:24:10,320feed. Yeah. To in a way thatmakes sense to activity pub. So128801:24:10,320 --> 01:24:18,690if you have, like, for instance,we there's a, in the, in the128901:24:18,720 --> 01:24:23,730social interact tag, you havethat, that notion of a user129001:24:23,730 --> 01:24:27,090account, you know, where it'slike, you know, what's your user129101:24:27,090 --> 01:24:32,430account? Well, that that canpass through, right? And now you129201:24:32,430 --> 01:24:38,850get now you get mentioned inthere, or you become like when129301:24:38,880 --> 01:24:42,390it's like okay, you now you'rethe owner of this feed and129401:24:42,390 --> 01:24:44,670you're in that's beingexpressed, so now you could do a129501:24:44,670 --> 01:24:46,380rel equals me. Yes.129601:24:46,410 --> 01:24:49,830Adam Curry: Your site, yourownership right there. Oh, man,129701:24:49,830 --> 01:24:49,980this129801:24:50,190 --> 01:24:51,270Dave Jones: ownership. You know,I129901:24:51,270 --> 01:24:53,160Adam Curry: think the kids callthis based.130001:24:54,150 --> 01:24:57,120Dave Jones: Is this. This isthat's what the kids are saying130101:24:57,120 --> 01:24:59,400it is this. AP is based Hey,130201:24:59,400 --> 01:25:01,530Adam Curry: you want it take alittle breather and play a song130301:25:01,560 --> 01:25:04,170you did say you missed that onthe last show so130401:25:04,170 --> 01:25:05,250Dave Jones: yeah brought lovethe song.130501:25:05,340 --> 01:25:12,090Adam Curry: Yes this is a new anew hotshot on the scene is it's130601:25:12,120 --> 01:25:17,820a yet again a young woman in thein the arena of Ainsley Costello130701:25:18,210 --> 01:25:18,720and she's130801:25:18,720 --> 01:25:20,580Dave Jones: skipping all theissues skipping all the bases no130901:25:20,580 --> 01:25:20,760this131001:25:20,760 --> 01:25:23,670Adam Curry: is not the skippingall the bases girl this is Abby131101:25:23,670 --> 01:25:30,870Muir and mu IR. She's fromSweden Sweden, and the song131201:25:30,870 --> 01:25:34,290starts off right away so I willkick it in just a minute if131301:25:34,290 --> 01:25:36,750you're listening on the splitkit you can boost if this thing131401:25:36,750 --> 01:25:41,550and curio caster and what does Ithink just fountain and podcast131501:25:41,550 --> 01:25:45,030guru they do live boosts now aswell with value time split thank131601:25:45,060 --> 01:25:49,890you thanks so this is the songaptly titled Stockholm131701:25:56,430 --> 01:26:05,400Unknown: to do that for me I wasso stuck just tell me love me131801:26:06,090 --> 01:26:11,400came to play Amina was your131901:26:22,770 --> 01:26:23,820calling you132001:26:48,960 --> 01:26:58,230your screen things are sayingand I'm over my head in time132101:26:58,230 --> 01:27:07,410that I spent but again you couldlive with your132201:27:16,890 --> 01:27:17,550alpha132301:27:39,900 --> 01:27:40,740gold132401:27:47,880 --> 01:27:48,720Gold132501:28:57,240 --> 01:29:00,060Adam Curry: Now tell me thatsong didn't open up132601:29:01,170 --> 01:29:02,100Dave Jones: that's a recipe132701:29:03,600 --> 01:29:05,760Adam Curry: she reminds meTaylor She reminds me of it was132801:29:05,760 --> 01:29:10,680the chicks name Dora rememberDora think she was German Dora132901:29:10,680 --> 01:29:13,620she had kind of those songswould just start off like a133001:29:18,390 --> 01:29:21,270Dave Jones: backhand just baityou in and get your backhand133101:29:21,360 --> 01:29:27,450Adam Curry: exactly exactly yourStockholm yeah everybody and133201:29:27,450 --> 01:29:32,160that will of course hit thepodcast index dot top chart what133301:29:32,160 --> 01:29:32,580are we up to?133401:29:33,450 --> 01:29:34,560Dave Jones: isn't on the chartyet?133501:29:35,310 --> 01:29:39,660Adam Curry: Let me see we aretoday 129 With the top 2020 29133601:29:39,690 --> 01:29:43,500Oh April in the Wolfers top ofthe chart today. Look at like133701:29:43,830 --> 01:29:46,470Stockholm is number six. Okay,133801:29:46,470 --> 01:29:50,730Dave Jones: we'll just drag thatone up. Yeah. La sugar.133901:29:51,210 --> 01:29:54,270Adam Curry: Yeah, I played lasugar. I played la sugar the134001:29:54,270 --> 01:29:59,250other day. And Marina Earth isalso very cool. This I love the134101:29:59,250 --> 01:30:01,980wow I can't believe Wind man gotsome plays.134201:30:02,610 --> 01:30:05,640Dave Jones: Yeah, that's excesspretty red 111 booth. Yeah,134301:30:05,640 --> 01:30:06,090that's134401:30:06,120 --> 01:30:09,630Adam Curry: for events, events,events, events, events events.134501:30:10,140 --> 01:30:13,710Very cool. Very, very cool therethe value versus alive and134601:30:13,710 --> 01:30:16,380kicking people alive and kickingout134701:30:16,620 --> 01:30:18,030Dave Jones: now available onbreeze134801:30:19,980 --> 01:30:22,800Adam Curry: saw that Andrewgrommets? PWA was boosting?134901:30:23,970 --> 01:30:27,420Dave Jones: Yeah, yeah. I don'tthink people. Can you explain135001:30:27,420 --> 01:30:30,930who Andrew Gromit is becausethere was confusion. There was135101:30:30,930 --> 01:30:33,750confusion, Sam and James did notknow who he was,135201:30:33,780 --> 01:30:36,120Adam Curry: Oh, my God, Andrew,but they should have Andrew135301:30:36,120 --> 01:30:39,840Grumman on their show. AndrewGrumman was one of the first135401:30:39,840 --> 01:30:44,370guys to show up when I starteddaily source code and put out135501:30:44,370 --> 01:30:51,840the the apple script. And hecame in and I think he was part135601:30:51,840 --> 01:30:56,070of the iPod or lemon group. Andthey were building that. And135701:30:56,070 --> 01:31:00,840that was a Windows app. AndAndrew was, you know, I kind of135801:31:00,840 --> 01:31:04,110a lead developer. I mean, Idon't It's so fuzzy. For me, I135901:31:04,110 --> 01:31:07,170don't really remember. ButAndrew was such an important136001:31:07,170 --> 01:31:09,960part that when I started podshow, he was employee number136101:31:09,960 --> 01:31:15,750one. And brought him in and wedid a lot of fun stuff together.136201:31:16,050 --> 01:31:20,580The Andrew is a great guy, andkind of you know, we we check in136301:31:20,580 --> 01:31:22,890from time to time and kind oflost track of him, then all of a136401:31:22,890 --> 01:31:26,040sudden he shows up. And he'sinterested in progressive web136501:31:26,040 --> 01:31:28,770apps. And so he's been buildinga whole progressive web app136601:31:28,950 --> 01:31:33,120system. He's a guy that I'mtelling you, partners weekly136701:31:33,120 --> 01:31:37,650review. May I suggest Andrewgrommet as a great guy to have136801:31:37,650 --> 01:31:42,510on for little before the a pieceof the podcast history that has136901:31:42,630 --> 01:31:43,830been poorly told.137001:31:45,000 --> 01:31:48,840Dave Jones: Yeah. Yeah. Good.And he, and he was around, I137101:31:48,840 --> 01:31:52,230remember him, because he alsobounced around a little bit with137201:31:52,230 --> 01:31:55,260the Dave Winer circles and thatkind of thing. And I remember137301:31:55,260 --> 01:31:59,910him from that I met him later.Just through, you know, chats137401:31:59,910 --> 01:32:03,870and stuff like that, but Ididn't realize that he had been137501:32:03,870 --> 01:32:05,220with you and Pasha. Yeah,137601:32:05,250 --> 01:32:07,170Adam Curry: yeah, he was thefirst guy hired. I'm pretty sure137701:32:07,170 --> 01:32:09,330he was number one. Yep.137801:32:10,830 --> 01:32:13,140Dave Jones: Let me say one morething about the bridge, check it137901:32:13,140 --> 01:32:20,070to the bridge. The so the waythe formatting looks right now.138001:32:22,800 --> 01:32:27,870On the posts, if anybody wouldlike to tackle making that look138101:32:27,870 --> 01:32:30,990better, because clearly, I mean,as I've said, 1000 times I'm not138201:32:30,990 --> 01:32:34,620a designer, I don't know how todo very good at this. If you138301:32:34,620 --> 01:32:40,200want to, if you if you can, ifyou can take because there's138401:32:40,200 --> 01:32:45,420formatting issues here liketitle and description that gets138501:32:45,420 --> 01:32:51,180truncated and there's just, it'sjust kind of messy. And I would138601:32:51,180 --> 01:32:53,610make I would like to make itlook good.138701:32:53,670 --> 01:32:55,800Adam Curry: Is there a placethey can do a PR?138801:32:58,230 --> 01:33:00,960Dave Jones: Well, yeah, youcould, you could do wouldn't be138901:33:00,960 --> 01:33:04,920a really, you'd have to knowRuss to do PR, but you could do139001:33:04,950 --> 01:33:05,190so139101:33:05,190 --> 01:33:07,590Adam Curry: problem. I know.Ross. Oh, that's right. That's139201:33:08,460 --> 01:33:09,360Dave Jones: right. You're good.You're139301:33:10,890 --> 01:33:12,420Adam Curry: dead man now. Okay.139401:33:12,450 --> 01:33:14,910Dave Jones: All right. So youjust send your changes to Adam139501:33:14,910 --> 01:33:20,790how to do a PR on the reef. AndBut yeah, if you if you send it139601:33:20,790 --> 01:33:23,940as like an issue or somethinglike that in the in the bridge139701:33:24,120 --> 01:33:27,600repo, just what it Yeah, justmake it look good. And then139801:33:27,750 --> 01:33:30,660because there's a limit of whathappens, there's a limited set139901:33:30,660 --> 01:33:37,980of of HTML that Mastodonsupports. So if you take as a140001:33:37,980 --> 01:33:40,770boy, whatever comes out of theshow notes has to be sort of140101:33:40,770 --> 01:33:44,580like morphed into thisacceptable HTML in a way that140201:33:44,580 --> 01:33:45,000doesn't.140301:33:45,090 --> 01:33:48,660Adam Curry: Oh, that's gross.That's always tough with the140401:33:48,690 --> 01:33:51,780beef. Right? Yeah. That's alwaysdifficult to make that look.140501:33:51,810 --> 01:33:56,130That's one of the main problemsall the all the websites have,140601:33:56,160 --> 01:34:00,330like pod page, I think struggleswith that all the time. How do I140701:34:00,330 --> 01:34:03,180take what someone just jackedinto their feed and make it140801:34:03,180 --> 01:34:03,870usable?140901:34:04,500 --> 01:34:05,880Dave Jones: Yeah. And when it'scoming out of freedom141001:34:05,880 --> 01:34:10,860controller, it's being mailedright? In that HTML.141101:34:11,130 --> 01:34:12,300Adam Curry: It's beautiful. It'sbeautiful.141201:34:13,920 --> 01:34:17,070Dave Jones: chop and drop. Imean, so like, and I know, one141301:34:17,070 --> 01:34:20,130thing I know about designers,web designers, is they love to141401:34:20,130 --> 01:34:23,310show their chops. So why notthrow it out there and say, hey,141501:34:23,310 --> 01:34:25,290if somebody wants to make thislook good, everybody's like, Oh,141601:34:25,290 --> 01:34:27,180yeah, yeah, the revenue hands.141701:34:27,540 --> 01:34:29,610Adam Curry: I just wanted tobring one quick thing up because141801:34:29,640 --> 01:34:33,120on pod news, weekly review, SamSethi had what was going to be a141901:34:33,120 --> 01:34:37,800rant and then it turned into atisk tisk. So British thing, and142001:34:37,800 --> 01:34:40,500he had kind of a backwards wayof promoting the idea of142101:34:40,500 --> 01:34:46,770activity streams. Which, I mean,it actually made me go back and142201:34:46,770 --> 01:34:50,970look again at the activitystream spec or from the activity142301:34:50,970 --> 01:34:57,690streams working group. And hereally seems to want this. But142401:34:57,690 --> 01:35:02,010the way he brought it was kindof odd. because he said he hates142501:35:02,730 --> 01:35:06,300the idea of which is I'm gonnajust on the opposite opposite142601:35:06,300 --> 01:35:10,830side of this, of people addingservices with a split in the142701:35:10,830 --> 01:35:15,270value block. And which wasinteresting because he accused142801:35:15,270 --> 01:35:20,580me of having 25 splits, which Idon't I think my max is 10. But142901:35:20,610 --> 01:35:25,800it came from what Spurlock isdoing with Opie three. And I'm143001:35:25,800 --> 01:35:29,940not doing so Sam wants it to beactivity streams that's shared143101:35:29,940 --> 01:35:33,270with everybody. And I don'tknow, I mean, maybe I'm just143201:35:33,270 --> 01:35:35,610misunderstanding activitystreams and seems like it's143301:35:35,610 --> 01:35:39,000something all the apps wouldhave to implement it what I love143401:35:39,000 --> 01:35:44,940so much about the value block isI can add a service in there.143501:35:44,940 --> 01:35:48,780It's like it's I called the APIfor podcasters. I'm an idiot. I143601:35:48,780 --> 01:35:51,990have no idea what how an APIworks. I mean, obviously, I'm a143701:35:51,990 --> 01:35:56,880rust expert, but I don't knowhow, you know, API's? Oh, auth,143801:35:56,880 --> 01:36:01,920all that stuff. If I just wantto add a service where, okay, so143901:36:01,920 --> 01:36:06,750it's, it shows up and fountainFountain has a way of surfacing144001:36:07,410 --> 01:36:11,400booster grams, I add the boostbot. Now, I don't see it unless144101:36:11,400 --> 01:36:16,080there's some problem with addingsplits that way. I mean, to me,144201:36:16,080 --> 01:36:19,860it's the way the whole system issupposed to work. I'm just like,144301:36:20,640 --> 01:36:27,390Spurlock gets paid for a servicethat I enjoy having. Now, the,144401:36:27,540 --> 01:36:30,000in fact, when I send it tofountain, it goes to my own144501:36:30,000 --> 01:36:33,420account, I think or whatever, Ibet it doesn't even matter. I144601:36:33,420 --> 01:36:37,680want everybody I want to share,I want to share in all of the144701:36:37,740 --> 01:36:41,580all of the value. And it justseemed I just want to make sure144801:36:41,580 --> 01:36:45,570that I'm on the right trackhere. I love the idea of adding144901:36:45,570 --> 01:36:49,020services and things that comealong with a split in the value145001:36:49,020 --> 01:36:53,040box, because it's literally away for me to pay for a service145101:36:53,040 --> 01:36:57,840no matter what it is. And withactivity streams, I just don't145201:36:57,840 --> 01:37:01,440see how that how you can havethat value. Someone has to run a145301:37:01,440 --> 01:37:05,310server somewhere. And thensurface activity streams that145401:37:05,310 --> 01:37:10,620show me I don't know what I'vedone. I don't know this. I love145501:37:10,650 --> 01:37:13,980I love what's happening here. AmI on the wrong track? Am I145601:37:13,980 --> 01:37:15,300seeing this the wrong way?145701:37:16,620 --> 01:37:18,900Dave Jones: I don't I don'tnotice this. I didn't hear it.145801:37:18,900 --> 01:37:24,510I'm not sure. What. Yeah, Idon't know how to frame. I don't145901:37:24,510 --> 01:37:26,040know what the framing is, youknow,146001:37:26,640 --> 01:37:28,470Adam Curry: that's what wasweird. I think he I think he146101:37:28,470 --> 01:37:31,080wants to promote activitystreams. But he was doing it by146201:37:31,080 --> 01:37:35,970saying it's dumb to use splitsfor this. It is great to use146301:37:35,970 --> 01:37:36,930splits for this146401:37:38,010 --> 01:37:42,180Dave Jones: was my mind show.Why? Because you get him on the146501:37:42,180 --> 01:37:43,410show. Let's146601:37:43,410 --> 01:37:45,330Adam Curry: get him on that hewants to be on the show. We146701:37:45,330 --> 01:37:46,290should get him on the show.146801:37:46,830 --> 01:37:48,630Dave Jones: Let's get him on theshow and hash it out. Because we146901:37:48,660 --> 01:37:51,990maybe there's something maybethere's something we're missing.147001:37:51,990 --> 01:37:56,340I mean, at I guess the onlything I can think of that would147101:37:56,340 --> 01:38:05,100be a downside to the split thingas a way to enable an API. Is147201:38:05,130 --> 01:38:09,510that sort of you're kind oflimited to the sort of minimum147301:38:09,510 --> 01:38:15,030you can do so I mean, like, youcan't really go. It's hard to go147401:38:15,030 --> 01:38:20,010below 1%. I guess for some showsthat could end up being your147501:38:20,040 --> 01:38:22,920sort of overpaying? I don'tknow.147601:38:23,430 --> 01:38:26,280Adam Curry: No, it wasn't aboutthat. But he just felt it's not147701:38:26,280 --> 01:38:29,400a smart way to use the valueblock. And I'm like, that's147801:38:29,400 --> 01:38:30,810exactly what it's for.147901:38:31,710 --> 01:38:33,630Dave Jones: Oh, Nathan says theother factor he brought up is148001:38:33,630 --> 01:38:40,470listener permission to sharethat data. Yeah, I mean, yeah, I148101:38:40,470 --> 01:38:44,130guess I could see. Well, asyou're sort of passing through148201:38:44,130 --> 01:38:44,250to148301:38:44,280 --> 01:38:47,580Adam Curry: no one or no oneseems to have complained about,148401:38:47,760 --> 01:38:52,650you know, booster gram showingup on fountain. People seem to148501:38:52,650 --> 01:38:56,820see it as a feature. I thinkwe're I think we're beyond that.148601:38:59,400 --> 01:39:04,380Yeah, I don't I don't see. Imean, it's really anonymous. To148701:39:04,380 --> 01:39:06,420me really is no148801:39:06,780 --> 01:39:08,220Dave Jones: way there's no RPSor any.148901:39:08,700 --> 01:39:10,560Adam Curry: I mean, that'sthat's, I mean, that's another149001:39:10,560 --> 01:39:14,940beauty of it. But no, I don'tknow, I think that we'll get him149101:39:14,940 --> 01:39:17,310on the show with us. Definitelyget him on the show. Because and149201:39:17,310 --> 01:39:21,330I just must say, I love the new.I mean, now I go to OP three149301:39:21,330 --> 01:39:24,300like now I have a reason to takea look at this stuff. Yeah, I149401:39:24,300 --> 01:39:28,140don't care about how many peopleare or know accessing.149501:39:28,620 --> 01:39:31,890Impression ng downloading,listening, whatever, I don't149601:39:31,890 --> 01:39:35,310really don't care. Also, therewas there was I think it was149701:39:35,310 --> 01:39:39,210something beautiful thathappened the other day, when,149801:39:40,410 --> 01:39:44,880you know, I stream I stream mySATs to to all the podcasts and149901:39:45,030 --> 01:39:48,840I listened to pod news pod newsevery single day and I don't150001:39:48,840 --> 01:39:52,230think I skipped a single one.And yes, sometimes when I hear150101:39:52,230 --> 01:39:55,140the music change bumpers, you'reprobably like, okay, here comes150201:39:55,140 --> 01:39:58,350the ad and I'm done. But I mayhave my gloves on. I'm outside150301:39:58,350 --> 01:40:05,520and so And then I heard Jameshad some copy about Hindenburg150401:40:05,520 --> 01:40:09,540and I'm a Hindenburg, customer,Hindenburg Pro. And there was150501:40:09,540 --> 01:40:12,300you know, and we were talkingabout the big knob and I lived150601:40:12,300 --> 01:40:16,230in the UK, I get the joke. Andso I boosted I'm like, Hey, I'm150701:40:16,230 --> 01:40:19,440boosting for the big knob. Andhe sent that to the to his150801:40:19,440 --> 01:40:22,800advertiser. And the advertiserloved it, me. And they posted150901:40:22,800 --> 01:40:25,350on, I said, post that onTwitter, you know, I'll retweet151001:40:25,350 --> 01:40:30,180that. So it was kind of a funcrossover, where boosting, I151101:40:30,180 --> 01:40:35,730think, made enhanced, so thevalue for value enhanced, a151201:40:35,730 --> 01:40:41,070podcast that is inherently valuefor value and sponsored. So I151301:40:41,070 --> 01:40:44,460think we've just been talkingabout that advertiser also over151401:40:44,460 --> 01:40:48,270there. Yeah, you know, and Ithink that I happily sent my151501:40:48,270 --> 01:40:52,140money to James and whoever thatgoes to, but also to give151601:40:52,140 --> 01:40:56,820feedback on the ad. And that canbe really can be really good.151701:40:58,470 --> 01:41:02,730Dave Jones: Yeah, that's, Ithink that's great. I mean, this151801:41:02,760 --> 01:41:06,570this, I think, I think peoplehave to just become comfortable151901:41:06,570 --> 01:41:11,850with the fact that and when Isay people, I mean, podcasters.152001:41:12,150 --> 01:41:17,220Think podcasters had to becomecomfortable with sort of opening152101:41:17,670 --> 01:41:20,670things up a little bit. I thinkthings of this has been an issue152201:41:20,670 --> 01:41:25,230in the in the podcast worldforever. Is that everybody's152301:41:25,230 --> 01:41:30,240super secretive. Nobody wantsanybody to know their stuff. You152401:41:30,240 --> 01:41:34,830know, I mean, like, I mean, ChadF literally, you know, does our152501:41:34,830 --> 01:41:39,780books in the open on the youknow, like, you know, on152601:41:39,780 --> 01:41:40,740Mastodon Yeah, we152701:41:40,740 --> 01:41:43,050Adam Curry: were gonna discussthat this show. I had that as a152801:41:43,050 --> 01:41:46,740to do item and we didn't. Buthere we are. Here we are. We're152901:41:46,740 --> 01:41:48,930discussing it now. Yeah,153001:41:48,930 --> 01:41:53,460Dave Jones: I mean, that's,that's the thing is you, when153101:41:53,460 --> 01:41:58,200you, when you sort of embraceme, no, but when you when you153201:41:58,200 --> 01:42:03,840embrace this idea that thingsare open. And you don't try to153301:42:03,870 --> 01:42:08,640be secretive about things andyou let you let your audience153401:42:08,640 --> 01:42:13,230pass through to your sponsors orso to you know, or your153501:42:13,230 --> 01:42:18,090sponsors. I mean, like, I thinkeverybody is just like153601:42:18,090 --> 01:42:21,150everybody, the world we live innow is just kind of suspicious.153701:42:21,900 --> 01:42:25,350And rightly so. Because you'reyou have, did you see the EU153801:42:25,350 --> 01:42:30,090thing with Margaret with the newMicrosoft Outlook? No, no. Now,153901:42:30,090 --> 01:42:32,910this is not the this is notoutlook.com. This is the desktop154001:42:32,910 --> 01:42:38,520installed version of Outlook. Inthe EU, now, they have to have a154101:42:38,520 --> 01:42:42,930disclosure about third partytracking. And there's a pop up154201:42:42,930 --> 01:42:46,920that happens on the desktopversion of Outlook. A pop up154301:42:47,040 --> 01:42:57,900comes up and says Microsoft and737/3 parties are based are154401:42:57,900 --> 01:43:04,770scraping your data for theadvert for ad tracking. It's154501:43:05,040 --> 01:43:06,750based on that email 100.154601:43:06,780 --> 01:43:10,230Adam Curry: Oh, Outlook has toso outlook is disclosing that154701:43:10,260 --> 01:43:11,310they're tracking.154801:43:11,970 --> 01:43:14,160Dave Jones: Yes, they have todisclose to third parties154901:43:14,160 --> 01:43:18,630they're tracking in the 100.Yeah, it was it was it was like155001:43:18,630 --> 01:43:24,300737 different ad trackers.Search give me third parties.155101:43:24,300 --> 01:43:27,150Let me see if I can find thisbecause it was That's insane.155201:43:27,570 --> 01:43:30,030This is the new version. Like Isaid, this is not155301:43:30,060 --> 01:43:32,670Adam Curry: where's this therock? Did throt do an article on155401:43:32,670 --> 01:43:33,750this? He155501:43:33,750 --> 01:43:36,600Dave Jones: did? Yeah. Okay,here it is. Okay, I've got155601:43:36,600 --> 01:43:37,080screenshots,155701:43:37,110 --> 01:43:41,580Adam Curry: 172/3 partiesprocess data, to store and or155801:43:41,580 --> 01:43:44,400access information on yourdevice development. You're155901:43:44,400 --> 01:43:45,750paying for this products?156001:43:46,350 --> 01:43:48,390Dave Jones: Yes, you'reinstalling a thing that you're156101:43:48,390 --> 01:43:52,170paying for through Office 365subscription. That's crazy. It156201:43:52,170 --> 01:43:55,650says by clicking the All buttonyou agree to the use of these156301:43:55,650 --> 01:43:58,650technologies and processing ofyour data for these purposes.156401:44:00,450 --> 01:44:03,720Yet, so many people156501:44:03,750 --> 01:44:06,240Adam Curry: think that anyonehas a problem with their booster156601:44:06,240 --> 01:44:06,630gram.156701:44:07,710 --> 01:44:10,530Dave Jones: Right? This is whyI'm saying becoming comfortable156801:44:10,860 --> 01:44:15,300becoming as a podcaster becomingmore open and becoming a lot156901:44:15,300 --> 01:44:19,860more transparent. It just makeseverybody more confident in who157001:44:19,860 --> 01:44:24,270you are and your character. Whenyou can show that you're not157101:44:24,690 --> 01:44:29,070that you're not hiding anything.That's crazy. So then if you157201:44:29,070 --> 01:44:34,140have an ethic, it builds yourlegitimacy with your spa with it157301:44:34,140 --> 01:44:38,340makes people trust your ifyou're advertising based or157401:44:38,340 --> 01:44:42,420sponsorship based, I think thatlens makes people even more157501:44:42,420 --> 01:44:45,900comfortable when you're whenyou're more open. Because157601:44:45,900 --> 01:44:50,100anything advertising based isjust so inherently skeptical157701:44:50,100 --> 01:44:50,550these days.157801:44:50,580 --> 01:44:53,160Adam Curry: I mean, I can tellyou from experience with no157901:44:53,160 --> 01:44:57,120agenda, you know from time totime, there's going to be158001:44:57,120 --> 01:45:00,180someone that shows up and saysyou're pretending that You're158101:45:00,180 --> 01:45:04,950poor and you're not okay?Because you know we have a very158201:45:04,980 --> 01:45:08,340blatant ask or like date, youwant the show to keep going, you158301:45:08,340 --> 01:45:12,240got to support it. We also calleverybody a producer. And we and158401:45:12,240 --> 01:45:15,630we we also credit people forother things time and talent,158501:45:15,660 --> 01:45:18,720not the treasure part. And fromtime to time, amazing wonder if158601:45:18,720 --> 01:45:23,160it's still around. There was awebsite, no agenda numbers.com158701:45:23,250 --> 01:45:27,570Let me see some guy went to thetrouble of doing that. Too bad.158801:45:27,570 --> 01:45:33,360It's gone. And you know, and andthis, this guy would count the158901:45:33,360 --> 01:45:36,570numbers and publish spreadsheetsand look at all this cash.159001:45:36,570 --> 01:45:40,530They're making these peoplesuck. A you know what, nobody159101:45:40,530 --> 01:45:45,450cared? Nobody cared. There wasalways care. No, no one nobody159201:45:45,450 --> 01:45:49,710cared. In the beginning. I likethe kind of kind of weird but159301:45:49,740 --> 01:45:53,580nobody cared. Nobody is evercared. They like and you know,159401:45:53,580 --> 01:45:55,740and people who care who thinksthat's a problem, they don't159501:45:55,740 --> 01:45:58,560support it, that's fine. That'sthe that's the whole beauty of159601:45:58,560 --> 01:46:03,510it. It still is, hey, it tookfive, six years before. I mean,159701:46:03,510 --> 01:46:06,120I want to quit no agenda,Episode 100. I'm like,159801:46:06,120 --> 01:46:08,460literally, we had a good run,John, let's quit this thing. I'm159901:46:08,460 --> 01:46:08,760done.160001:46:10,950 --> 01:46:16,590Dave Jones: What, I've got thisweird idea that if you if you160101:46:16,590 --> 01:46:23,340really love a podcast, you wantyou don't want the podcaster to160201:46:23,340 --> 01:46:26,790be struggling and barelyscraping by every every episode.160301:46:27,870 --> 01:46:33,900You want them to see that it isworth their time. And it's a160401:46:33,900 --> 01:46:37,890rewarding experience financiallyfor them. Or else, they're not160501:46:37,890 --> 01:46:41,550going to stick with it. If youreally want it, you don't want160601:46:41,670 --> 01:46:45,690that you want the podcaster tobe rewarded as much as you as160701:46:45,690 --> 01:46:50,940much as possible. And you know,like, for like us on with this160801:46:50,940 --> 01:46:55,950project. We said from the verybeginning where this is all160901:46:55,950 --> 01:46:59,400about our the donations wereceive, especially the PayPal161001:46:59,400 --> 01:47:03,090donations we receive on thisshow is all about building a war161101:47:03,090 --> 01:47:09,540chest because this there ispeople come and go in there is161201:47:09,540 --> 01:47:12,960going to be a time whendonations are going to drop down161301:47:12,960 --> 01:47:13,470to nothing.161401:47:13,500 --> 01:47:14,700Adam Curry: And we're or when wedie.161501:47:16,830 --> 01:47:18,840Dave Jones: One of those two,what's going161601:47:18,840 --> 01:47:19,800Adam Curry: to happeneventually,161701:47:20,490 --> 01:47:27,330Dave Jones: we in perfectexample, a a $500 a month donor161801:47:27,420 --> 01:47:31,380this month, cancel their studentcanceled their donation. Oh, so161901:47:31,650 --> 01:47:37,530we did not wait. Yes, and we didnot miss a beat because we have162001:47:37,980 --> 01:47:43,410saved all of that money, itcosts us typically about $1,300162101:47:43,410 --> 01:47:50,220a month have to run everythingthat we run. And so that's we162201:47:50,220 --> 01:47:55,230just we just ditched the ln paynotes. So that saves us 450 a162301:47:55,230 --> 01:48:01,140month. So that that 500 thatdropped off is going to is okay162401:48:01,140 --> 01:48:02,640we can we can eat it. And it162501:48:02,640 --> 01:48:06,690Adam Curry: might might add thatyou and I personally pay taxes162601:48:06,750 --> 01:48:08,850over the money that comes ineven though we don't pay162701:48:08,850 --> 01:48:09,600ourselves.162801:48:09,930 --> 01:48:13,380Dave Jones: We do this becauseit cost me three grand last162901:48:13,380 --> 01:48:13,800because163001:48:13,830 --> 01:48:16,170Adam Curry: it costs money.We're not crying, but that163101:48:16,200 --> 01:48:19,530that's just how it works. Youknow, that's just what it is.163201:48:19,560 --> 01:48:21,210And we're happy. We're fine withthat.163301:48:21,810 --> 01:48:23,460Dave Jones: And I'm scared ofwhat is going to be this year.163401:48:23,460 --> 01:48:26,130But um, I'm hoping I did my mathright? It's163501:48:26,130 --> 01:48:29,490Adam Curry: gonna be $500 lessper month, that's for sure. If163601:48:29,910 --> 01:48:31,980Dave Jones: if under less so youknow, because we're about to163701:48:31,980 --> 01:48:34,200have to do this. We're about tohave to get my brother in law to163801:48:34,200 --> 01:48:36,060do our taxes for the LLC. And heand163901:48:36,060 --> 01:48:38,820Adam Curry: he doesn't work forevery nice family member you got164001:48:38,820 --> 01:48:39,450there? No.164101:48:40,680 --> 01:48:43,140Dave Jones: Nobody, nobody.Nobody works for Nobody, not164201:48:43,140 --> 01:48:49,410even family. Except us. Thatbecause because we have what164301:48:49,590 --> 01:48:53,400what I've always wanted and youconcur is to have at least five164401:48:53,400 --> 01:48:55,740years of cushion built up towhere you have the donations164501:48:55,740 --> 01:48:58,890dropped to zero. Yeah, we couldkeep on truckin and not miss a164601:48:58,890 --> 01:49:01,980day for five years. Yeah,because we made a promise. And164701:49:02,010 --> 01:49:06,690in order to keep the promise, wehave to have enough, just flat164801:49:06,690 --> 01:49:11,520out cash to pay the bills. Sothat's and we're on track. We're164901:49:11,520 --> 01:49:14,490not there yet. We can I thinklast time I checked, we could165001:49:14,490 --> 01:49:22,170run for about 18 months. Yeah,yeah. Two years, roughly in that165101:49:22,170 --> 01:49:22,710timeframe.165201:49:22,740 --> 01:49:25,410Adam Curry: And all the statsstay on the node. And if you165301:49:25,410 --> 01:49:29,730need liquidity, let us know now,but happy to open up a nice fat165401:49:29,730 --> 01:49:30,480channel to you.165501:49:31,470 --> 01:49:34,320Dave Jones: But um, I'm totallycool with Chad F doing that. I165601:49:34,320 --> 01:49:39,600think it's great because it itshows. It shows I mean, it's165701:49:39,600 --> 01:49:42,990pretty accurate. I mean, that'shis math is pretty spot on as165801:49:42,990 --> 01:49:47,160far as I can think he is. Yeah.Yeah. So that's, yeah, I think165901:49:47,160 --> 01:49:51,270it's great. I think I think justthis, this sort of like spirit166001:49:51,270 --> 01:49:55,830of openness. I think I think thepodcast industry as a whole166101:49:56,100 --> 01:49:59,190would benefit from that there'sway too much secrecy and going166201:49:59,190 --> 01:50:02,670on. So Debt stats and everythingis just oh, that's falling166301:50:02,670 --> 01:50:04,890apart. It is it is,166401:50:04,980 --> 01:50:09,270Adam Curry: you know, like, theynever really needed the IAB. The166501:50:09,270 --> 01:50:12,690advertisers aren't stupid. Theyhave spreadsheets they know who166601:50:12,690 --> 01:50:16,830know whose numbers are what andthey discounted. Your numbers or166701:50:16,830 --> 01:50:21,210X, Y or Z. I know what they are.So the IAB is just a farce.166801:50:23,040 --> 01:50:24,480Dave Jones: Yeah, basically itis.166901:50:25,830 --> 01:50:29,010Adam Curry: Let's thank a fewpeople. I'm going to thank the167001:50:29,010 --> 01:50:32,550people who came in with livebooths pod home 30,000 SATs.167101:50:32,550 --> 01:50:38,670Thanks, brother. Very nice. TheDutch guys up late. Sam Sethi.167201:50:38,700 --> 01:50:41,91010,000 SATs glad to hear thatREL equals me is now part of the167301:50:41,910 --> 01:50:45,000conversation activity streamswill be soon I hope we need to167401:50:45,000 --> 01:50:48,000discuss this smiley face. Yes,we will. We'll have you on Sam.167501:50:48,540 --> 01:50:52,830Blueberry. 7777 Please send goodvibes decided on top of167601:50:52,830 --> 01:50:55,860everything going on right nowthat this was the weekend to get167701:50:55,860 --> 01:50:57,390a freedom controller going?167801:50:58,380 --> 01:50:59,340Dave Jones: No, you good luck.167901:51:01,320 --> 01:51:04,710Adam Curry: Brother. Okay. Allright. Well,168001:51:04,740 --> 01:51:06,720Dave Jones: you're on you're onmy prayer list. Yes.168101:51:07,890 --> 01:51:11,190Adam Curry: Top of the prayerlist, blueberry. Dred Scott168201:51:11,190 --> 01:51:17,7304567. Don't cross the streams.Lol. Chad F with 333 This is the168301:51:17,730 --> 01:51:21,030TIC tock model keep the tribesseparate. Yes, exactly. He came168401:51:21,030 --> 01:51:24,450up with the same conclusion Idid. Another 4567 from Dred168501:51:24,450 --> 01:51:30,120Scott says pew pew pew pew pewanother 4567 Sass from Dred168601:51:30,120 --> 01:51:32,670Scott testing que pues nothearing them on the live stream168701:51:32,670 --> 01:51:38,070Yeah. What I opened up the pewpew pew pew and then he comes in168801:51:38,070 --> 01:51:43,170with 45,678 Dred Scott goingcrazy says don't get your finger168901:51:43,170 --> 01:51:48,510stuck in your nostril bridge gopodcasting. I will get you got169001:51:48,510 --> 01:51:54,240it. Blueberry with a long, longnote here sent on pod verse169101:51:54,240 --> 01:51:58,140333 33. I'm fairly confident bythe end of tonight I'll have a169201:51:58,140 --> 01:52:03,120lighting fixture that will shinewhen a boost comes in. Of course169301:52:03,180 --> 01:52:07,620I love this course picked up asick little USB to DMX box from169401:52:07,620 --> 01:52:11,370my computer been salivating atthe idea of making a big ass led169501:52:11,370 --> 01:52:15,840neon sign that is pixel mappablefor the best music 2.0 homegrown169601:52:15,840 --> 01:52:19,140hits homegrown hits as theabsolute tits jacked follow that169701:52:19,140 --> 01:52:22,320sweet homegrown flavor it wouldbe set to build them a giant169801:52:22,320 --> 01:52:25,410lighted sign that changeseffects based off of booster169901:52:25,410 --> 01:52:29,850mounts. Dude, I want one ofthose. I'll buy one when I want170001:52:29,850 --> 01:52:34,140one in my studio. I just wantthat pew pew I want to change170101:52:34,590 --> 01:52:37,560with the numbers whatever I lovethat idea. Was170201:52:37,560 --> 01:52:39,480Dave Jones: DMX is it what isthat?170301:52:39,810 --> 01:52:45,090Adam Curry: I don't know. Okay.Oh, I think DMX is a lighting170401:52:45,090 --> 01:52:46,230protocol. It's like170501:52:47,580 --> 01:52:50,340Dave Jones: okay, like tocontrol RGB stuff. Yeah, I170601:52:50,340 --> 01:52:52,740Adam Curry: don't know if it'sRGB but it's DJs use it to170701:52:52,770 --> 01:52:56,910control lighting rigs, I think.Okay. Yeah, it's kind of like170801:52:56,910 --> 01:53:02,580MIDI MIDI for for lightinglights. Yeah. Let me see what170901:53:02,580 --> 01:53:06,330else we have here. I'm scrollingthrough a lot of a lot of171001:53:06,330 --> 01:53:11,040different boosts here. No, I hitthe limiter. So that's it for171101:53:11,040 --> 01:53:12,660the live boosts and you're up.171201:53:14,190 --> 01:53:18,450Dave Jones: We've got we've 01off papers this week. Good work.171301:53:18,450 --> 01:53:23,010Everybody goes apropos to thediscussion we171401:53:23,310 --> 01:53:25,800Adam Curry: There you go. ThankGod we have a little kitty.171501:53:26,850 --> 01:53:30,840Dave Jones: That's right. Thatdip into the pot James Crillon171601:53:31,020 --> 01:53:34,320satchel Richards throughfountain he says wait a sec.171701:53:34,710 --> 01:53:38,040Those activity pub postings meanthat every podcast can get171801:53:38,040 --> 01:53:41,820crosstab comments if there isn'teven a social interact then just171901:53:41,820 --> 01:53:45,330use the posting that's correctJames Yeah, the red and it's172001:53:45,660 --> 01:53:46,020tribal172101:53:46,050 --> 01:53:50,280Adam Curry: that yes, that meanwhen I saw that I went Oh, holy172201:53:50,280 --> 01:53:52,650crap. That is very smart.172301:53:53,820 --> 01:53:57,540Dave Jones: That up in 96 was alot of things actually. That'd172401:53:57,540 --> 01:54:01,950be 1984 4000 SATs through fancysays last 10% listener boost.172501:54:03,630 --> 01:54:07,950Oh, he made it past the 90%mark. Thank you. I'll be mere172601:54:07,950 --> 01:54:12,600mortals podcast as everybodyKyron 2223 foundations will know172701:54:12,600 --> 01:54:16,560$30 million marketer but I wouldlike to claim the V for V172801:54:16,560 --> 01:54:20,730consultant title. Courtneyfinally just released our Convo172901:54:20,760 --> 01:54:23,190on podcast bestie recorded sixmonths ago173001:54:23,220 --> 01:54:23,730Unknown: yes173101:54:23,730 --> 01:54:26,580Dave Jones: I didn't talk aboutV for V music much would be173201:54:26,580 --> 01:54:29,100great to stream boost thatepisode to give her a taste of173301:54:29,100 --> 01:54:32,670authentic peer to peer real timeno dodgy statistic feedback.173401:54:34,650 --> 01:54:36,990Adam Curry: So we so we got tostream that episode by the way.173501:54:36,990 --> 01:54:41,130I just got 2000 from from Barryfrom pod home he says it seems173601:54:41,130 --> 01:54:43,650you still have me in the splits.That's a mistake. Probably173701:54:43,650 --> 01:54:49,500right. Yep. It was. may enjoy abonus. Bonus. bonus for you173801:54:49,500 --> 01:54:51,360brother bonus. Yeah.173901:54:51,450 --> 01:54:53,640Dave Jones: Kudos to Barry forsaying that because he could174001:54:53,640 --> 01:54:55,920have just remained silent. Hemay. He may have stayed in there174101:54:55,920 --> 01:54:56,550for weeks.174201:54:58,260 --> 01:55:01,500Adam Curry: No, that's the nextguest would have changed that174301:55:01,500 --> 01:55:02,940but yeah, that was my mistake174401:55:03,090 --> 01:55:06,360Dave Jones: History podcastbestie let's see. Oh, here it174501:55:06,360 --> 01:55:11,190is. Yeah, okay, I'm downloadingthat right now. I got to see174601:55:11,700 --> 01:55:14,640what else we got here we got1701 Oh, that's Mike Dale's174701:55:14,640 --> 01:55:19,830gotta be Yep. Mike now throughcast Matic he says hi from the174801:55:19,830 --> 01:55:25,440snow globe of Michigan wellhello from the freezer of174901:55:25,440 --> 01:55:26,130Birmingham Alabama.175001:55:26,160 --> 01:55:27,570Adam Curry: Yeah chilly in thehill country.175101:55:28,770 --> 01:55:31,710Dave Jones: Balderdash boy is33 333 through fountain he says175201:55:31,710 --> 01:55:33,930thank you for all your help andall the great info weekly go175301:55:33,930 --> 01:55:36,570podcasting sir west of beerbourbon and molar.175401:55:38,190 --> 01:55:39,420Adam Curry: Yeah, those guys arecool.175501:55:40,320 --> 01:55:47,040Dave Jones: Yeah, good guys. SirBrown of London 21 948 through175601:55:47,040 --> 01:55:50,580cast magic is is remember whatI'm aleck Google Facebook Apple175701:55:50,580 --> 01:55:51,300did to you.175801:55:54,450 --> 01:55:57,660Adam Curry: Always Always bringwhat does that noise?175901:55:58,710 --> 01:56:02,580Dave Jones: And Emma like that'sthe Jewish Yeah, the176001:56:02,640 --> 01:56:07,890Adam Curry: the enemy. Family.Enemies. Yes, we got it.176101:56:08,430 --> 01:56:13,740Dave Jones: Thank you, Brian.Unite Gomez 3219 through pod176201:56:13,740 --> 01:56:17,310versus boosting from the BasqueCountry. Now what is Basque?176301:56:17,340 --> 01:56:18,240Basque? That's176401:56:18,510 --> 01:56:24,210Adam Curry: in Spain. Boom. Sothe Basque Country. Your176501:56:24,210 --> 01:56:26,820Dave Jones: name? You're nearAlbert Alberto. I guess from176601:56:26,820 --> 01:56:29,400maurices.com. Give me Give ashout good lunch.176701:56:30,780 --> 01:56:33,960Adam Curry: Very, very firstsentence and 10,000 SATs back to176801:56:33,960 --> 01:56:37,560us. Didn't have to do that. Andto do that.176901:56:38,400 --> 01:56:43,680Dave Jones: Yeah. Go buy a beer.source D send a 1701. As our177001:56:43,680 --> 01:56:46,320buddy Archie says only atechnician don't think I can get177101:56:46,350 --> 01:56:50,670on 20. Get on 20 in. Say177201:56:50,670 --> 01:56:52,230Adam Curry: again? Oh, 20meters?177301:56:52,530 --> 01:56:53,010Dave Jones: Yeah. Okay.177401:56:53,040 --> 01:56:56,880Adam Curry: No is the tech waitas a technician? You can? I177501:56:56,880 --> 01:56:59,910think you know, the 120 meters.But yet, you may not be able to177601:56:59,910 --> 01:57:05,460do I forget this a ham radiotalk? I'm not sure exactly177701:57:05,460 --> 01:57:08,640anymore. But you can look it up.But I think you can go on 20177801:57:08,640 --> 01:57:12,840meters, but not like at someothers you can't go on. But you177901:57:12,840 --> 01:57:15,030want to get general just go forgeneral, you could178001:57:15,030 --> 01:57:17,490Dave Jones: do it. How big is a20 meter antenna is pretty big,178101:57:17,490 --> 01:57:20,610Adam Curry: right? Well, a fulllength antenna will be 20178201:57:20,610 --> 01:57:28,680meters. 60 feet. Yeah, that'shuge. But I have an n fed Zeplin178301:57:28,680 --> 01:57:34,530antenna, which is just a wire asan end fed zip baby, a wire178401:57:34,530 --> 01:57:39,750would that transformer on oneend. And it's about it's178501:57:39,750 --> 01:57:43,440probably about 20 feet,something like that. I mean, you178601:57:43,440 --> 01:57:46,830got I got an antenna tuner, youcan take a clothes hanger. And178701:57:46,830 --> 01:57:48,570you know what the bet thecoolest antenna is a loop178801:57:48,570 --> 01:57:53,340antenna. What does that so aloop antenna is literally a loop178901:57:53,340 --> 01:57:57,510of wire with a loop of wireinside of it. And I'm going to179001:57:57,510 --> 01:58:01,260have a big capacitor on thefront and you tune the antenna179101:58:01,260 --> 01:58:05,760with that. And those things areamazing. You can have it inside179201:58:05,760 --> 01:58:08,940and you can reach all over theworld. But it's very, I mean,179301:58:08,970 --> 01:58:10,950the minute you move to adifferent frequency, you have to179401:58:10,950 --> 01:58:15,600retune, it's very, very criticalin the tuning. But loop antennas179501:58:15,630 --> 01:58:18,960have been you can go back inhistory, World War One and World179601:58:18,960 --> 01:58:23,460War Two. All the wars that theyuse them in the military loop179701:58:23,460 --> 01:58:26,190antennas are just amazing whatthey can do.179801:58:27,690 --> 01:58:30,180Dave Jones: So it's so it's a 20meter antenna, but it just in179901:58:30,180 --> 01:58:30,750the loop.180001:58:32,460 --> 01:58:37,140Adam Curry: It's the loop can bepretty small. Look at chameleon180101:58:37,140 --> 01:58:41,850loop chameleon loop they selland it's basically just a loop180201:58:41,850 --> 01:58:45,060wire with a loop on the insideand in a big box. And that box180301:58:45,060 --> 01:58:50,040has a huge capacitor. air gappedand you just tune it and you're180401:58:50,040 --> 01:58:50,640good to go.180501:58:51,360 --> 01:58:53,370Dave Jones: Because I think Ithink we I think I certified my180601:58:53,370 --> 01:58:55,680novice license on like to meter.180701:58:57,210 --> 01:59:00,450Adam Curry: Well, novice doesn'texist anymore. Right? Yeah, that180801:59:00,450 --> 01:59:03,120mean this is back in? Yeah. Twometer. Just Yeah. Two meter just180901:59:03,120 --> 01:59:05,190on the handheld stuff. Yeah.Yeah.181001:59:06,030 --> 01:59:08,580Dave Jones: That means 60 feet.That's your whole backyard.181101:59:09,120 --> 01:59:09,270Yeah,181201:59:09,270 --> 01:59:11,520Adam Curry: but maybe you don'tyou don't need a full181301:59:11,520 --> 01:59:15,030wavelength. No one uses a fourway link. Hit me up on Vare. See181401:59:15,030 --> 01:59:17,040everybody keto five alpha,Charlie, Charlie.181501:59:18,030 --> 01:59:22,200Dave Jones: We get oh, thedelimiter Comstor blogger 4000181601:59:22,200 --> 01:59:26,070sets through fountain he saysthat he fell a bit corners Dave181701:59:26,070 --> 01:59:29,700and he's calling Asus fellowBitcoiners that he's calling181801:59:29,700 --> 01:59:30,540himself a bit181901:59:30,600 --> 01:59:33,930Adam Curry: of Bitcoin. Okay.Well, welcome.182001:59:34,080 --> 01:59:38,070Dave Jones: Call Mr. Bhalla.Yes. Hello. How do you feel a182101:59:38,070 --> 01:59:40,740Bitcoiners David Adam, pleaseinvite your listeners to listen182201:59:40,740 --> 01:59:45,900to just two good old boyspodcast at WWW dot just two good182301:59:45,900 --> 01:59:49,350ol boys.com. Join Ben and Jeanin their thought provoking182401:59:49,350 --> 01:59:52,770podcast as they tackle a widerange of topics from the182501:59:52,770 --> 01:59:56,580complexities of politics andglobal events in 2024 to182601:59:56,580 --> 01:59:59,490personal anecdotes andtechnological musings. This182701:59:59,490 --> 02:00:04,110podcast offers a candid andunreservedly discussion. Yo CSB.182802:00:04,950 --> 02:00:07,770Do you think? Thanks Ben andJames would describe their182902:00:07,770 --> 02:00:10,410podcast as a candid andunreserved discussion.183002:00:12,120 --> 02:00:14,880Adam Curry: Listen, comics. Yourblogger does everything with183102:00:14,880 --> 02:00:18,570Chad TPT these days. He just hejust said right to boost the183202:00:18,570 --> 02:00:22,650gram for this podcast and that'swhat Chad GPT did they give him183302:00:22,650 --> 02:00:27,780that? That's how he rolls. I'mtelling you, I can see it I see183402:00:27,780 --> 02:00:32,310his post is all Chad GPT when hecomes up with some like, this is183502:00:32,310 --> 02:00:35,430how I feel today. It's like awhole Chad GPT output You're not183602:00:35,430 --> 02:00:36,150fooling me183702:00:36,660 --> 02:00:42,510Dave Jones: CSBG PTS Are we sureCSB still exist183802:00:42,540 --> 02:00:46,260Adam Curry: no he auditory AI.He's just he's just become AI.183902:00:46,260 --> 02:00:47,760He does not exist anymore.184002:00:47,820 --> 02:00:50,280Dave Jones: He's been AFK forlike a year and a half probably184102:00:50,340 --> 02:00:55,770at this point. And the other oneI know we get a monthly184202:00:55,800 --> 02:00:59,940conflicts right? Got PaulSaltzman $22 2016 Thank you,184302:00:59,940 --> 02:01:05,010Paul. Daymond Cassie, Jack $15Derek J. Vickery, the best name184402:01:05,010 --> 02:01:11,940in 2.0 is $21 Er and Rosenstein$1, Jeremy Garrett's $5, Michael184502:01:11,940 --> 02:01:17,220Hall, $5.50, and Trevor at zenerout of Australia $5. And that's184602:01:17,220 --> 02:01:17,700our group.184702:01:17,760 --> 02:01:20,550Adam Curry: What a good group agood looking group. Also, thank184802:01:20,550 --> 02:01:23,160you very much for supportingthis value for value projects184902:01:23,160 --> 02:01:26,880and podcast. If you'd like tolearn more about value for185002:01:26,880 --> 02:01:32,130value, go to value number fourvalue dot info. And to support185102:01:32,130 --> 02:01:35,370this value for value, podcastsand project go to podcast185202:01:35,370 --> 02:01:40,320index.org Scroll down to thebottom there are two red donate185302:01:40,320 --> 02:01:43,770buttons. There's one for yourFiat fund coupons. That's the185402:01:43,770 --> 02:01:46,800Pay Pal which we of course,accept and we appreciate that.185502:01:47,070 --> 02:01:50,700The other one is for tally coinfor all you fellow Bitcoiners185602:01:50,700 --> 02:01:55,170who never give us on chain coin,but I still check it and still185702:01:55,170 --> 02:01:59,400nothing since the 27th ofOctober 2023 What we really want185802:01:59,400 --> 02:02:04,170you to do is go to podcastapps.com Modern podcast apps.com185902:02:04,170 --> 02:02:09,450new podcast apps.com Nudepodcast apps.com and grab a new186002:02:09,450 --> 02:02:13,050podcast that almost all of themnow do value for value in some186102:02:13,050 --> 02:02:16,620form of another. I think it'sI'm seeing 16 different apps186202:02:16,620 --> 02:02:20,280now. I think 16 Maybe 17 What?186302:02:20,970 --> 02:02:22,890Dave Jones: Do them all do themall?186402:02:23,670 --> 02:02:26,790Adam Curry: Well, yeah, load upyour wallet and send us some186502:02:26,790 --> 02:02:29,040boosts and a booster grant we'dlove to read them we'd love to186602:02:29,070 --> 02:02:31,650thank you personally on the showand thank you for so much for186702:02:31,650 --> 02:02:34,860supporting podcasting 2.0 Thewhole kitten caboodle186802:02:35,670 --> 02:02:39,480Dave Jones: but we just had justgot the live the podcast and tip186902:02:39,480 --> 02:02:41,880window live from the AP bridgeeight minutes ago.187002:02:42,360 --> 02:02:44,010Adam Curry: Way to go all right.Hey, it works.187102:02:44,850 --> 02:02:47,310Dave Jones: We barely met wemade it technically still like187202:02:47,310 --> 02:02:48,300you're considering187302:02:48,330 --> 02:02:49,590Adam Curry: I forgot to send it187402:02:50,730 --> 02:02:53,130Dave Jones: technically stilllove it, brother.187502:02:53,160 --> 02:02:54,900Adam Curry: What's coming up forthis week for you over this187602:02:54,900 --> 02:02:57,210weekend. Anything I think fromfun, you're hanging out with the187702:02:57,210 --> 02:02:59,790family just trying to stay warm.Trying187802:02:59,790 --> 02:03:04,620Dave Jones: to stay warmprimarily got got Christmas,187902:03:04,740 --> 02:03:07,080celebrating Christmas with thein laws that we were not able to188002:03:07,080 --> 02:03:10,380do very late Christmascelebration. So yep.188102:03:11,220 --> 02:03:12,120Adam Curry: You have gifts.188202:03:13,320 --> 02:03:16,500Dave Jones: Yeah, we got gifts.We did have gifts. We're not188302:03:16,500 --> 02:03:17,430coming empty handed188402:03:17,670 --> 02:03:19,650Adam Curry: stuff that you thatyou got from somebody else. Like188502:03:19,650 --> 02:03:21,570I really don't want this. Ithink I'll give that to my in188602:03:21,570 --> 02:03:22,380laws. And this is probably188702:03:22,710 --> 02:03:25,290Dave Jones: the best the besthabit. Because he just picks188802:03:25,290 --> 02:03:27,900through and just get you justget rid of all the stuff you188902:03:27,900 --> 02:03:29,310don't like. boardroom.189002:03:29,310 --> 02:03:32,130Adam Curry: Thank you very muchfor attending everybody there in189102:03:32,130 --> 02:03:35,220the chat. Thank you all so much.Thank you for all that you do.189202:03:35,460 --> 02:03:39,570This is a cast of hundreds whowho really work on this project.189302:03:39,870 --> 02:03:44,970It's app developers, its allies,allies of the app developers.189402:03:45,180 --> 02:03:49,020It's podcasters it's not jobs.It's a crazy band. I love all of189502:03:49,020 --> 02:03:53,940you Dave my brother, thank youso much. And we'll be back next189602:03:53,940 --> 02:03:57,600Friday for a another boardmeeting of podcasting. 2.0 will189702:03:57,600 --> 02:04:00,150be here and I'll let you knowwhen we're live and Lindsey then189802:04:00,150 --> 02:04:00,600everybody.189902:04:17,070 --> 02:04:20,970Unknown: You have been listeningto podcasting 2.0 to visit190002:04:20,970 --> 02:04:24,360podcast index.org. For moreinformation,190102:04:24,810 --> 02:04:29,010Adam Curry: go podcast. I thinkthe kids call this based