Episode 162: Unwise Unwrap

100:00:00,570 --> 00:00:05,340Adam Curry: By casting couponover January 5 2024, episode 162200:00:05,580 --> 00:00:11,070UHNWIs unwrapped. Well, wellWell hello, everybody. Welcome300:00:11,070 --> 00:00:16,830to 2024 Welcome to podcasting.This is the official board400:00:16,830 --> 00:00:20,460meeting of podcasting. Forgetany other show. This is where500:00:20,460 --> 00:00:23,040podcasting takes place. This iswhere you hear what's really600:00:23,040 --> 00:00:26,070going on with the podcastindustrial complex with the700:00:26,070 --> 00:00:29,280future of podcasting with valuefor value, everything with a800:00:29,280 --> 00:00:32,670namespace podcast index.org Andof course, everything we're900:00:32,670 --> 00:00:36,540discussing at podcast index dotsocial, the only boardroom1000:00:36,570 --> 00:00:39,480without an agenda or meticulousminutes. That's right. I'm out1100:00:40,020 --> 00:00:43,470here in the heart of thecountry. And in Alabama. The man1200:00:43,470 --> 00:00:46,230who was alpha is better than theyear beta say hello to my friend1300:00:46,230 --> 00:00:48,420on the other end. Dave Jones.1400:00:54,420 --> 00:00:58,200Will you muted? Yes. Because youworried myself because you were1500:00:58,200 --> 00:01:00,300munching on something again? No,I1600:01:00,300 --> 00:01:03,780Dave Jones: was franticallytyping there in moving crap1700:01:03,780 --> 00:01:05,910around on my screen. I didn'twant to make a bunch of noise.1800:01:06,900 --> 00:01:08,910And live troubleshooting the APbridge.1900:01:08,970 --> 00:01:12,240Adam Curry: Oh, boy. Yes, yes.For those who were not listening2000:01:12,240 --> 00:01:16,650live. We, we we were waiting forthat. We've had some problems2100:01:16,650 --> 00:01:19,680with the Fetty with thefediverse bridging as a few a2200:01:20,160 --> 00:01:20,820few issues.2300:01:21,690 --> 00:01:27,180Dave Jones: What I'm going to doso you got you got the live pod2400:01:27,180 --> 00:01:28,620thing went out? Yes. They2500:01:28,620 --> 00:01:30,840Adam Curry: went out because wesaw it come to the boost the2600:01:30,930 --> 00:01:33,750live bot. Yeah. Got it.2700:01:33,990 --> 00:01:35,490Dave Jones: I got it on myphone. We2800:01:35,490 --> 00:01:37,590Adam Curry: are live and live.Hello, everybody. Hello, Sam2900:01:37,590 --> 00:01:42,210Sethi in the UK. Hello. Got yourred wine. He's drinking. We've3000:01:42,210 --> 00:01:43,440driven him to dream.3100:01:45,270 --> 00:01:47,670Dave Jones: We tend to do thatwith most mate most people3200:01:47,670 --> 00:01:49,530Adam Curry: have to drink whenthey listen to us. Yes, I know.3300:01:49,680 --> 00:01:52,500Dave Jones: Yeah. If you'rerecovering, don't don't listen3400:01:52,500 --> 00:01:59,340to the show. You will fall offthe wagon. So it's funny, by the3500:01:59,340 --> 00:02:03,390way, whenever you send the livepod thing out, all the apps3600:02:03,420 --> 00:02:05,970START push notification group islike3700:02:07,560 --> 00:02:09,930Adam Curry: I have Yeah, I hadto turn a couple of them off.3800:02:10,680 --> 00:02:13,350Because it was it my screen wasgetting too crowded. You know,3900:02:13,350 --> 00:02:16,920it was getting making meanxious. Like, oh, I wake up in4000:02:16,920 --> 00:02:19,080the morning. There's a whole rowof things. Now of course,4100:02:19,080 --> 00:02:23,850subsequently, I sometimes missthe new media show, ping which4200:02:23,850 --> 00:02:26,220is a bummer because I loveinteracting with those guys4300:02:26,220 --> 00:02:27,690live. That's always hilarious.4400:02:28,740 --> 00:02:31,230Dave Jones: Let's see. Okay, soI'm gonna do I'm gonna ping the4500:02:31,230 --> 00:02:35,520hub right now because there'sgonna be so we know the podcast.4600:02:37,140 --> 00:02:40,890The excuse me, the pod ping livenotification went out. Because4700:02:40,890 --> 00:02:45,660we got that and in the podcastlive bought, picked on activity4800:02:45,660 --> 00:02:46,620pub picked it up. I4900:02:46,620 --> 00:02:48,030Adam Curry: got notificationshere.5000:02:48,870 --> 00:02:53,490Dave Jones: Because so I'm goingto do C pub dot podcast5100:02:53,490 --> 00:03:00,780index.org/pub Notify ID equalnine to 0666. Yeah.5200:03:01,320 --> 00:03:06,150Adam Curry: What is up with the666 ID man that's irritating.5300:03:06,630 --> 00:03:09,870That that was just chosen for usat random by5400:03:10,440 --> 00:03:14,790Dave Jones: No, we're beingstalked by dark buysafe we have5500:03:14,790 --> 00:03:17,400a we have a booster gram fromsatan today as well. So we're5600:03:17,400 --> 00:03:17,610gonna5700:03:19,080 --> 00:03:24,450Adam Curry: see live. So whatDave is doing if you're new, we5800:03:24,450 --> 00:03:29,340are working on fed defying thepodcast index, which means that5900:03:29,340 --> 00:03:33,720you can actually followpodcasts, any podcast in the6000:03:33,720 --> 00:03:39,030index from any Mastodon accountor anything that speaks activity6100:03:39,030 --> 00:03:43,140pub, which is cool, because itbasically is built the biggest6200:03:43,140 --> 00:03:47,820podcast app in the world. Justthe way I see it. And there's6300:03:47,820 --> 00:03:51,360all kinds of groovy things wecan do with it, which the only6400:03:51,360 --> 00:03:54,660you only had this work in lastweek. So I mean, doesn't6500:03:54,660 --> 00:03:57,660surprise me that stuff breaksand burps and farts and does6600:03:57,660 --> 00:03:58,470stuff. It's fine.6700:03:58,530 --> 00:04:01,620Dave Jones: Oh, this this is thealpha test of alpha software at6800:04:01,620 --> 00:04:03,660this point. I mean, it's barelyhanging together.6900:04:03,690 --> 00:04:06,600Adam Curry: And it's funny howhow I get used to just okay,7000:04:06,600 --> 00:04:08,760it's working good. I'm puttingit into my production flow.7100:04:08,760 --> 00:04:09,840We're rockin and rollin.7200:04:10,590 --> 00:04:12,870Dave Jones: That's why I'verolled this out to you because7300:04:12,870 --> 00:04:14,760you break the heck out ofeverything.7400:04:15,030 --> 00:04:18,030Adam Curry: It's my job. It ismy absolute job.7500:04:18,509 --> 00:04:21,179Dave Jones: It's an absoluteyou're a hammer. It's not coming7600:04:21,179 --> 00:04:23,639through. This is this isaggravating.7700:04:23,670 --> 00:04:27,240Adam Curry: Is it? Is it in theinbox, though? Is in the inbox?7800:04:27,720 --> 00:04:27,900The7900:04:27,900 --> 00:04:28,470Dave Jones: inbox?8000:04:28,560 --> 00:04:30,180Adam Curry: Yeah. Well, that's8100:04:30,180 --> 00:04:32,700Dave Jones: the Oh, you mean theoutbox? Yeah, that's8200:04:32,700 --> 00:04:34,950Adam Curry: what I mean. Yeah.Okay, one guy's outbox is8300:04:34,950 --> 00:04:38,640another guy's inbox. Okay.Matter of looking at looking at8400:04:38,640 --> 00:04:39,060things.8500:04:40,710 --> 00:04:43,890Dave Jones: See, outbox? I don'tknow. Let's check, because8600:04:43,890 --> 00:04:45,870Adam Curry: that's, that's whathappened last time. Someone8700:04:45,870 --> 00:04:48,690said, Oh, look, it's in theoutbox. So it seems to be like8800:04:48,690 --> 00:04:53,070some kind of signing issue. Howabout that? How about that?8900:04:53,520 --> 00:04:56,790Dave Jones: This would not be inthe outbox, typically, because9000:04:56,790 --> 00:04:59,640Adam Curry: I had posted noagenda and it wasn't showing on9100:04:59,640 --> 00:05:02,130the Fed. Reverse, but it was inthe outbox.9200:05:03,360 --> 00:05:09,120Dave Jones: Yes. So Okay. Well,here's. Yeah. It's not in now,9300:05:09,120 --> 00:05:13,170but this would not be in theoutbox because live the live9400:05:13,170 --> 00:05:15,570notifications do not go into theoutbox.9500:05:16,260 --> 00:05:21,000Adam Curry: There's a bridge tothe bridge. That's take it to9600:05:21,000 --> 00:05:21,750the branch.9700:05:22,680 --> 00:05:25,980Dave Jones: It says we're bridgeor bridge and bridges. Okay,9800:05:26,010 --> 00:05:31,740gotcha. Okay. The the, theregular posts when new episodes9900:05:31,740 --> 00:05:35,970go into the feed, those are inthe outbox, right. Got it. Live10000:05:36,000 --> 00:05:40,590notifications do not go into theoutbox. Now, maybe they should.10100:05:40,680 --> 00:05:46,860But that doesn't seem like it. Idon't know. I mean, I'm open,10200:05:46,890 --> 00:05:47,760I'm open to10300:05:49,020 --> 00:05:51,480Adam Curry: well open to have mymind. Why don't you just since10400:05:51,480 --> 00:05:54,630we're on the topic I have at thetop of my list, let's just give10500:05:54,630 --> 00:05:57,810us a little status on the Fedification of the index, because10600:05:58,110 --> 00:06:03,420this is where we left off lastlast year. And I'm super excited10700:06:03,420 --> 00:06:07,230by by this development, it's itopens up so many opportunities10800:06:07,230 --> 00:06:08,580once we get it to work.10900:06:10,500 --> 00:06:12,750Dave Jones: Steven crater said,Where did they go there?11000:06:13,470 --> 00:06:18,060Adam Curry: Who knows? into theether, man, stop asking11100:06:18,060 --> 00:06:19,200questions crater.11200:06:19,590 --> 00:06:24,780Dave Jones: Yeah, like, okay, sothey, they go to the inbox of11300:06:24,780 --> 00:06:29,010other servers, which alsoanswers FPPS question. He says,11400:06:29,010 --> 00:06:31,860Does the bridge also have topost to the master to master on11500:06:31,860 --> 00:06:43,500them? But yes, so. So So yes,the here's let me just let me11600:06:43,500 --> 00:06:45,510just go back and look and talk alittle bit about structure11700:06:45,510 --> 00:06:50,970because they basically this weekwith ag with the AP bridge was11800:06:50,970 --> 00:06:55,200nothing but refactoring justisn't, and it's not the the code11900:06:55,200 --> 00:06:57,870that I've worked on all week isnot even in production yet.12000:06:57,960 --> 00:07:03,660Okay? Cuz I can't. I just ranout of time, I was trying to get12100:07:04,650 --> 00:07:08,430what, uh, what I need to do, oh,really, before I can get this12200:07:08,430 --> 00:07:13,590thing to be open, is take outthose hard coded keys. And so12300:07:13,590 --> 00:07:17,070that's what I was trying to dothis morning. And it just, I12400:07:17,070 --> 00:07:21,240just did not have time. Sothat's, that's all I have to do.12500:07:21,240 --> 00:07:24,840And then I'm going to open itup, that's should be it stupid,12600:07:24,840 --> 00:07:28,230because it should be a simplething. They should be like, you12700:07:28,230 --> 00:07:34,560know, just something so easy.But with with rust, that's,12800:07:34,860 --> 00:07:39,000that's often where you know,where you go. And check yourself12900:07:39,000 --> 00:07:42,390into it. The Insane Asylum iswhen you think that this should13000:07:42,390 --> 00:07:47,340be easy. Yeah. And then it'slike, oh, you know, this, your,13100:07:47,640 --> 00:07:51,600this borrow you? This staticaleight, and you need to have a13200:07:51,600 --> 00:07:53,970static lifetime, because thisvariable doesn't live long13300:07:53,970 --> 00:07:57,750enough and goes out of scopebefore it's like, Oh, wow. Okay.13400:07:57,780 --> 00:08:00,090Adam Curry: Yeah. So you mightas well have a girlfriend, if13500:08:00,090 --> 00:08:02,610you're gonna talk that languageto me. Well,13600:08:02,610 --> 00:08:04,170Dave Jones: that's why you don'thave girlfriends, if you're13700:08:04,170 --> 00:08:07,350gonna have if you know how totalk that language, you have no13800:08:07,350 --> 00:08:13,020women in your life, right? Or ifyou do, they all hate you. So13900:08:13,560 --> 00:08:19,230here's, here's the way thestructure is currently. And this14000:08:19,230 --> 00:08:25,110as for the refactor code, aswell as, as well as what's14100:08:25,200 --> 00:08:29,280what's actually live right now.So there's, there's a web14200:08:29,280 --> 00:08:34,710server. Remember, this is allbased on the, on the core front,14300:08:34,710 --> 00:08:40,650this core little tiny, elegantweb server framework of that14400:08:40,650 --> 00:08:48,600heli pad in MK Ultra, and podping dot cloud are based on. So14500:08:48,600 --> 00:08:53,460it's very simple. It's, it's amain process thread that spawns14600:08:53,610 --> 00:08:58,410individual threads for incomingweb requests, and then putting14700:08:58,410 --> 00:09:02,700in there's a router. And thenthere's a request handler, it's,14800:09:02,730 --> 00:09:06,870it's just the whole thing islike, I don't know, 500 lines of14900:09:06,870 --> 00:09:12,090code for an entire web server init's like, rock solid. So15000:09:12,090 --> 00:09:17,730that's, that's what the core ofof it is. And then, but then15100:09:17,730 --> 00:09:23,010when the when you start theserver, it also spawns two15200:09:23,010 --> 00:09:28,290additional threads. So onethread is an episode checker.15300:09:29,220 --> 00:09:34,410And it just on a loop checksconstantly with the index. To15400:09:34,410 --> 00:09:36,750find out if there's been newepisodes. Wow,15500:09:36,750 --> 00:09:37,800Adam Curry: shouldn't it beusing pod15600:09:37,799 --> 00:09:39,509Dave Jones: pay? Well,15700:09:39,839 --> 00:09:42,089Adam Curry: that's next level.There's15800:09:42,089 --> 00:09:46,499Dave Jones: a net Well, no, itdoes. So but but not all. Not15900:09:46,499 --> 00:09:50,159all feeds are pod, of course. Soyou have there's so it's16000:09:50,159 --> 00:09:54,599constantly doing that. And it'slike once it's like one a second16100:09:54,629 --> 00:09:58,649you know, it's it's not it'sbeing nice. So then it's doing16200:09:58,649 --> 00:10:01,289that as one there's a initialjust looping is running all the16300:10:01,289 --> 00:10:05,429time. And then there's anotherloop, another thread that gets16400:10:05,429 --> 00:10:09,779spawned to listen to Spurlock'spod thing. WebSocket.16500:10:10,289 --> 00:10:13,049Adam Curry: Right? That's whereit's supposed to do the live16600:10:13,049 --> 00:10:13,499update.16700:10:14,250 --> 00:10:17,430Dave Jones: Yes. And so wheneverit basically just the thread16800:10:17,430 --> 00:10:23,310spawns it, it connects to theWebSocket, and then enters a16900:10:23,310 --> 00:10:28,440loop, waiting for a read forread activity. When a new17000:10:28,440 --> 00:10:34,470message comes in, it checks. Itcalls the index. Because here's17100:10:34,470 --> 00:10:36,900the issue. So there's a littlebit of there's a little bit of17200:10:36,900 --> 00:10:40,680like, I don't know what youwould call it, a little bit of17300:10:40,680 --> 00:10:45,330running around, that has tohappen because pod ping operates17400:10:45,330 --> 00:10:50,880on feed URLs. That's really allit can operate on. So it17500:10:50,880 --> 00:10:56,130operates purely on feed URLs.And the reason code and reason17600:10:56,130 --> 00:11:00,720codes, yes, and mediums. So inthe pay a payload for a pod ping17700:11:00,990 --> 00:11:09,300is a feed URL, a medium and areason code. The the feed URL,17800:11:09,300 --> 00:11:15,870so there's no sense of any kindof feed ID anywhere in this. So17900:11:15,900 --> 00:11:17,790but the AP bridge operates onfeed18000:11:17,789 --> 00:11:21,599Adam Curry: IDs, so you have todo a lookup there. Yes. So18100:11:21,599 --> 00:11:23,309Dave Jones: there has to be areverse lookup. So I'm watching18200:11:23,309 --> 00:11:27,659the pod ping web socket. Andwhen a message comes in, I say,18300:11:27,659 --> 00:11:33,059okay, podcast just went live.And it's this feed URL. What's18400:11:33,059 --> 00:11:37,229the idea? Yeah, how do I know ifthat's one that we watch or not?18500:11:38,339 --> 00:11:42,989Does anybody follow this? Youknow, who knows. So I have to18600:11:42,989 --> 00:11:46,859convert that feed URL into apodcast index ID, which requires18700:11:46,859 --> 00:11:51,719a podcast index look up. Soevery time I see a live, pod18800:11:51,719 --> 00:11:58,049ping go out, you got to do alookup on the API, get the ID,18900:11:58,049 --> 00:12:01,439but at the same time, you don'twant to have the multiple calls.19000:12:01,439 --> 00:12:03,569So you just go ahead and do allof them at once. So basically,19100:12:03,569 --> 00:12:06,719there's an endpoint. I'm noteven sure if I've made it public19200:12:06,719 --> 00:12:17,789yet. But there's an endpointcalled Live, see, live by Feed19300:12:17,879 --> 00:12:23,069URL in it, and you give it aURL, and it gives you back all19400:12:23,069 --> 00:12:29,069the live items that we currentlyknow about for that URL. And a19500:12:29,069 --> 00:12:31,259bunch of them and all the feedmetadata and everything that19600:12:31,259 --> 00:12:33,899goes with it. So you can get theID and everything you can you19700:12:33,899 --> 00:12:42,599can get every all that stuff inone call. Will if, if the fifth19800:12:42,629 --> 00:12:48,569you will have to wait, you know,because the pod pain goes out.19900:12:49,559 --> 00:12:55,319Then we parse the feed in theindex, and update the live item.20000:12:57,179 --> 00:13:02,219But the so we have I have towait for for like, I think it's20100:13:02,219 --> 00:13:07,019like 60 seconds from getting thepod paying to give the index20200:13:07,019 --> 00:13:10,829time enough to parse the feed sothat the index data is current.20300:13:12,689 --> 00:13:15,869So that it gives me the youknow, like correct data about20400:13:15,899 --> 00:13:21,389the current state of live? Sure.Okay. So that's, that's like the20500:13:21,419 --> 00:13:22,649there's like a timing little20600:13:22,650 --> 00:13:26,160Adam Curry: bit of time loop.Yeah, you can miss it. You can20700:13:26,190 --> 00:13:27,420you can check too early.20800:13:28,559 --> 00:13:30,509Dave Jones: Yes, you can checktoo early for sure.20900:13:30,539 --> 00:13:32,849Adam Curry: This is a RubeGoldberg Machine Man that I21000:13:32,849 --> 00:13:37,259don't know what you're you'rebuilding here. The dominoes21100:13:38,519 --> 00:13:42,899dominoes trip the spoon thathits the golf ball. It hits the21200:13:42,929 --> 00:13:46,859falls into the glass. The glasssplashes the water. Exactly.21300:13:46,889 --> 00:13:48,869Dave Jones: Yeah. And then afirecracker goes off and scares21400:13:48,869 --> 00:13:55,109the chicken glaze and a witch.Yeah, exactly. This is all a21500:13:55,109 --> 00:13:57,989podcasting. By the way. It is ahuge Rube Goldberg21600:13:58,020 --> 00:14:00,480Adam Curry: true it's truethat's called interrupt in the21700:14:00,510 --> 00:14:01,560in some worlds21800:14:03,899 --> 00:14:07,199Dave Jones: so that's that'swhat's happening all the time.21900:14:07,199 --> 00:14:13,049So what happened? What happenedthis past week when everybody22000:14:13,049 --> 00:14:16,259started saying hey, I'm notgetting notifications of new22100:14:16,289 --> 00:14:23,369episodes. One of the three oneof those threads the thread that22200:14:23,399 --> 00:14:26,819the thread that checks thepodcast index a fresh new add22300:14:26,819 --> 00:14:27,479crash first22400:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,930Adam Curry: of all, how youshould be very happy and and you22500:14:30,960 --> 00:14:33,960I would say you can be proud ofthe fact that people were22600:14:33,960 --> 00:14:37,380complaining that means peoplewere already like interested in22700:14:37,380 --> 00:14:37,500it.22800:14:37,500 --> 00:14:39,780Dave Jones: This is good. Itwarms my heart.22900:14:41,309 --> 00:14:43,079Adam Curry: It warms your heartand then immediately you got a23000:14:43,079 --> 00:14:46,499black hole in your soul becausethe feet you're threaded crashed23100:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,620Dave Jones: your heart can bewarm and pissed off at the same23200:14:49,620 --> 00:14:56,220time. Possible as possible.Yeah, and so the the it had it23300:14:56,220 --> 00:14:59,130had crashed and I don't knowthis for sure yet because I23400:14:59,130 --> 00:15:03,270really could not afford thedistraction of hunting that bug23500:15:03,270 --> 00:15:08,460while also refactoring this,this code, because, here's,23600:15:08,940 --> 00:15:12,480well, I don't want to get offinto many different, different23700:15:12,480 --> 00:15:18,300rabbit trails, but just what italmost certainly is almost23800:15:18,330 --> 00:15:29,040almost 100% Sure this is what itis, is, is an unwise unwrap. So23900:15:29,130 --> 00:15:32,640unwrapped something that shouldhave stayed rat is basically,24000:15:33,180 --> 00:15:37,230we've, we've talked about thisbefore. Rust is modern language24100:15:37,260 --> 00:15:45,120in many modern language employthis idea of of a variable that24200:15:45,150 --> 00:15:49,860you're able to wrap what youcould call wrap a variable. So24300:15:50,160 --> 00:15:56,310you can let's say you have avariable of a podcast index ID.24400:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,270So this variable is going tohold is supposed to hold a24500:16:00,270 --> 00:16:02,820number, so there should be issueholding an integer like the24600:16:02,820 --> 00:16:07,440integer of this show 920666. Sothat should be like let's just24700:16:07,440 --> 00:16:16,800say a 64 bit unsigned integer,that variable can in a modern24800:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,500way, in modern languages likeswift and rust, and that kind of24900:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,550thing, they can be what's calledwrapped, meaning that you can25000:16:24,300 --> 00:16:28,110create a new, there's a new typecalled and actually in Rust,25100:16:28,110 --> 00:16:33,090there's two different ones, youcan have an option or not, or25200:16:33,270 --> 00:16:36,480some people call an optional,you have an option or you have25300:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,090Adam Curry: a result. So it'slike an it's an abstraction of25400:16:39,090 --> 00:16:39,840the variable.25500:16:40,559 --> 00:16:44,939Dave Jones: It is the variablelives inside of the RET of the25600:16:44,939 --> 00:16:51,629wrapped of the rat, the variablelives inside a type in the type,25700:16:51,659 --> 00:16:58,139let's just does you say option.Okay? So option is an option can25800:16:58,139 --> 00:17:05,999be either some or none. So noneis sort of like null or nil. Or25900:17:06,089 --> 00:17:09,989in JavaScript, undefined,something like that. It's just a26000:17:09,989 --> 00:17:14,429value that means this damage isinherent, you know what you're26100:17:14,429 --> 00:17:19,289looking for doesn't exist,essentially. And then the the26200:17:19,289 --> 00:17:24,749converse of that is some whichmeans yes, there is a value26300:17:24,749 --> 00:17:27,419here, you're looking for avariable called podcast index26400:17:27,419 --> 00:17:35,129ID. And I'm telling you, thereis some value here. So you got26500:17:35,130 --> 00:17:38,490Adam Curry: to unwrap it tofigure out what it is. Yes,26600:17:38,490 --> 00:17:41,490Dave Jones: exactly. You can sayHoly crap, I'm programming26700:17:41,490 --> 00:17:42,480Adam Curry: rust, everybody26800:17:47,520 --> 00:17:52,470Dave Jones: print the transcriptand compile it. Yes. So there's26900:17:52,470 --> 00:17:55,380also another there's anotherversion of that is very similar27000:17:55,380 --> 00:18:00,600to that, called result. It's aresult is basically the same27100:18:00,600 --> 00:18:08,190ideas option, except it operateswith, you can have either an N27200:18:08,190 --> 00:18:12,180Okay, or error. There's youryour to those instead of some27300:18:12,180 --> 00:18:15,840and none. Now you have Okay, anerror it's meant for it's really27400:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,280meant for returning from afunction and letting the calling27500:18:20,670 --> 00:18:24,870method know whether or not thatfunction was successful or not.27600:18:25,530 --> 00:18:29,340So if you get back in, okay, youunwrap it, you're good to go.27700:18:29,340 --> 00:18:30,150You got your value, you27800:18:30,150 --> 00:18:31,740Adam Curry: got value. God Yeah.27900:18:32,160 --> 00:18:38,940Dave Jones: So there is a itjust again, like many, like most28000:18:39,120 --> 00:18:44,340modern languages that thatincorporate this feature. Hold28100:18:44,340 --> 00:18:45,390on, hold on, wait, hold28200:18:45,390 --> 00:18:52,680Adam Curry: on a second day.Champs have to wake up. Okay. So28300:18:52,680 --> 00:18:53,550I'm dozing off.28400:18:55,620 --> 00:18:57,780Dave Jones: We got him early inhis first class and one so he's28500:18:57,780 --> 00:19:03,000still we're lucky. We're lucky.So like most modern languages28600:19:03,030 --> 00:19:08,940that incorporate this, this ideaor this feature, there is a way28700:19:08,940 --> 00:19:15,000to force the unwrapping. Okay,so now, now you're not checking28800:19:15,030 --> 00:19:18,120to see if it's so like in Rust,you would say something like28900:19:18,120 --> 00:19:25,950this, if podcast index id.issome meaning if there's a value29000:19:25,950 --> 00:19:33,570there. Yeah. Or if podcast indexid.is. None the meaning. So you29100:19:33,570 --> 00:19:36,480would do a check like thatbeforehand. But but when you're29200:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,340prototyping code, and you'regoing,29300:19:38,670 --> 00:19:41,310Adam Curry: going quickly to getyou just want to get it no29400:19:41,310 --> 00:19:43,320matter what. Yeah, becauseyou're like, Hey, I29500:19:43,320 --> 00:19:46,320Dave Jones: know. I don't careif it crashes, it's fine. It's29600:19:46,320 --> 00:19:49,800kind of science graduate. But Ijust want this I don't want to29700:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,220have to build all this logic,all this error checking logic,29800:19:53,220 --> 00:19:55,380I'll do that, quote unquote,later,29900:19:55,410 --> 00:19:57,270Adam Curry: and that's what thewrapping is for is for error30000:19:57,270 --> 00:19:59,160checking logic. Right. And so30100:19:59,160 --> 00:20:02,190Dave Jones: you say it Exactlyso that you can avoid crashing30200:20:02,190 --> 00:20:06,990in written runtime. But, so youcan do I think in Swift, it's30300:20:06,990 --> 00:20:11,040the exclamation point willunwrap a variable. In rust. It's30400:20:11,040 --> 00:20:15,240either the question mark, or youcan explicitly say dot unwrap.30500:20:15,720 --> 00:20:19,200And that will, that will treatthe variable as if there's30600:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,340something there and we'll, we'llreturn its content. So if30700:20:23,340 --> 00:20:25,740there's nothing there, you get athread panic and you cry you30800:20:25,740 --> 00:20:28,230Adam Curry: crash. Okay, I gotit. So that's the problem is30900:20:28,230 --> 00:20:32,370that it? Either check too early,too late or something and it was31000:20:32,370 --> 00:20:34,980zero and you didn't have any,you didn't have the user to31100:20:34,980 --> 00:20:38,040force unwrap. And then it hadnothing to do with31200:20:39,120 --> 00:20:42,750Dave Jones: PS exec thread panicdone that. But it didn't. But it31300:20:42,750 --> 00:20:47,010does not crash the entire itdoesn't crash the entire AP31400:20:47,010 --> 00:20:48,480bridge and only crashes read31500:20:48,480 --> 00:20:50,580Adam Curry: read write? Yes.Well, that's what threads are31600:20:50,580 --> 00:20:50,970for.31700:20:51,960 --> 00:20:54,990Dave Jones: Right, exactly. It'sexactly what I shouldn't be31800:20:54,990 --> 00:21:00,720doing is either one of n andmost likely both of these two31900:21:00,720 --> 00:21:04,680things I should be properlychecking all unwraps which I'm32000:21:04,680 --> 00:21:08,760almost certainly not doing as asAlex likes to say unwrapping32100:21:08,760 --> 00:21:16,320things for Christmas. And, andalso checking to see if the32200:21:16,320 --> 00:21:19,470thread crashes and bringing itback to life spawning a new32300:21:19,470 --> 00:21:21,510thread. And doing neither one ofthem.32400:21:21,720 --> 00:21:23,700Adam Curry: Okay, I gotcha.Gotcha.32500:21:23,730 --> 00:21:28,440Dave Jones: I guess I'm a badprogram. Boy, naughty. I'm on32600:21:28,440 --> 00:21:29,010the bad list.32700:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,260Adam Curry: All right. Oh, mygoodness. Thanks, Dave.32800:21:31,860 --> 00:21:33,210Dave Jones: Is that a bad way tostart a show?32900:21:33,270 --> 00:21:36,000Adam Curry: I don't know. Imean, anyone's that the33000:21:36,030 --> 00:21:40,770boardroom is quiet. No one'ssaying anything anymore in their33100:21:40,770 --> 00:21:42,870heads are all on theirkeyboards. You know, I'm33200:21:42,870 --> 00:21:45,780expecting any minute now forsomeone to shoot a whole long33300:21:45,780 --> 00:21:53,520row of peas, you know, just fallasleep on the keyboard. While33400:21:53,520 --> 00:21:56,040we're in at this level, let mejust run through a couple of33500:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,720things. And then I have somethoughts. First of all, I want33600:22:00,720 --> 00:22:06,180to congratulate fountain onthere. Rewind every meal apple33700:22:06,180 --> 00:22:08,910and Spotify and everyone wasdoing look at what you did this33800:22:08,940 --> 00:22:13,740this past year. And fountain Didyou get a rewind email? I did it33900:22:13,740 --> 00:22:17,250was pretty read. Wow, it showedme how much I had supported it34000:22:17,250 --> 00:22:21,840show me the top shows. It wasshareable. It was just it was34100:22:21,870 --> 00:22:26,070what a one it showed me all myMuslim boosts. It was just a34200:22:26,070 --> 00:22:30,300lovely piece of marketing.Marketing is the thing that we34300:22:30,300 --> 00:22:36,480lacked typically in very muchjust saying. So that was really34400:22:36,480 --> 00:22:41,520cool. And not everybody has timefor this but I just wanted to34500:22:41,520 --> 00:22:45,660say that was delightful. That'sthe kind of stuff that gets you34600:22:45,690 --> 00:22:51,450people to pay attention to whatyou're doing two things one,34700:22:52,350 --> 00:22:54,510because I've been picking thisup and I think you've been in34800:22:54,510 --> 00:22:59,370some of these threads. Thereappears to be a GUID duplication34900:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,890amongst a whole lot of WordPressfeeds35000:23:02,550 --> 00:23:05,940Dave Jones: Yes, what exactly isgoing on around for a long time?35100:23:06,000 --> 00:23:06,300Is35200:23:06,300 --> 00:23:08,820Adam Curry: this because now isthis people who are just using35300:23:08,850 --> 00:23:12,780WordPress is it people who areusing the power press plug in?35400:23:13,080 --> 00:23:15,840Is it what what exactly happenedthere? Do you know?35500:23:16,860 --> 00:23:23,700Dave Jones: Yeah, do you noticethat there's a win win pie its35600:23:23,700 --> 00:23:28,290power to power precious you oweit is power press okay. Yes,35700:23:28,320 --> 00:23:32,280when power press first releasedsupport for the podcast good.35800:23:34,110 --> 00:23:41,640They had a bug in their in theircode where it was giving35900:23:41,670 --> 00:23:44,010everybody the same good. Right.36000:23:44,010 --> 00:23:45,750Adam Curry: Okay, that makesthat's what we're seeing. And36100:23:45,750 --> 00:23:48,240there's a lot of them. Right?And then36200:23:48,240 --> 00:23:53,010Dave Jones: they they fix thebug. But there's many feeds out36300:23:53,010 --> 00:23:55,590there that haven't upgraded tountil a later version of power36400:23:55,590 --> 00:23:59,370press yet. Okay, and so thosethings are sticking around with36500:23:59,400 --> 00:24:02,460the buggy code where they'reduplicating do IDs but36600:24:02,460 --> 00:24:04,770Adam Curry: once people upgradetheir power press plug in then36700:24:04,770 --> 00:24:05,610it fixes it36800:24:07,650 --> 00:24:11,520Dave Jones: yes, what if if theyif they ever do you know like36900:24:11,580 --> 00:24:13,590Adam Curry: well I can tellhornqvist for sure because he's37000:24:13,590 --> 00:24:16,380one of them. That's where itcame from. It's like hey, d h37100:24:16,380 --> 00:24:21,060unplugged has Bo has this thisGUID that is in the in the index37200:24:21,060 --> 00:24:25,170a million times I could tell himto upgrade and37300:24:25,170 --> 00:24:27,150Dave Jones: the last time Ichecked and I don't know if you37400:24:27,150 --> 00:24:29,700have a hard number on it but thelast time I checked it was like37500:24:30,060 --> 00:24:32,130something like 300 feeds orsomething like37600:24:32,130 --> 00:24:34,350Adam Curry: that. I didn't I didnot didn't count37700:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,070Dave Jones: it wasn't like itwas just like no it's not a37800:24:38,070 --> 00:24:40,740Adam Curry: horrible no it's nothorrible, but it's you know, but37900:24:40,740 --> 00:24:44,190DHL unplugged is a big show andit should have its own good so38000:24:44,250 --> 00:24:47,400I'll make greatest power pressthat's what I'm saying. Yeah,38100:24:47,400 --> 00:24:49,200I'll tell him to upgrade hispower press because that's the38200:24:49,200 --> 00:24:50,610problem. Obviously.38300:24:50,640 --> 00:24:54,480Dave Jones: Yeah, it I mean Toddcan jump in there and correct us38400:24:54,480 --> 00:24:58,530if I'm correct me if I'm wrong,but I'm remember this when it38500:24:58,530 --> 00:25:03,240happened because You know, whereit first showed up? was in38600:25:03,240 --> 00:25:04,680transcribe.fm?38700:25:04,830 --> 00:25:08,250Adam Curry: Ah, right now Iremember that. Yeah, it was you38800:25:08,250 --> 00:25:08,730would ask38900:25:08,730 --> 00:25:10,950Dave Jones: transcribe.fm for atranscript, and it would give39000:25:10,950 --> 00:25:14,160you back a transcript from someother show. You're like what?39100:25:14,220 --> 00:25:17,790Oops. Yeah. And you and then wefigured out that it was because39200:25:18,060 --> 00:25:19,680it was because of this issue. Iwonder39300:25:19,680 --> 00:25:23,010Adam Curry: if pod press hassome pingback that they can that39400:25:23,010 --> 00:25:27,420they can tell their plugin userslike, hey, grayzone acid39500:25:27,570 --> 00:25:33,810Dave Jones: as dyno dot fmoS.Dan? Oh, yeah. Sorry. The yatris39600:25:33,810 --> 00:25:40,080didn't know that of him. I mean,he can. Maybe that's commonly we39700:25:40,080 --> 00:25:41,970need Todd to chime in. Yeah.Yeah.39800:25:42,990 --> 00:25:46,410Adam Curry: Second thing, whichI think is a good thing, and39900:25:46,440 --> 00:25:55,050this was a long thread. And thisis something that true fans has40000:25:55,050 --> 00:26:02,460implemented. And I think Dolbydas RSS blue is is implementing40100:26:02,460 --> 00:26:07,650it is publisher feeds. This andI know we've discussed this. So40200:26:07,710 --> 00:26:10,740let me just give you what Ibelieve publisher feeds, are you40300:26:10,740 --> 00:26:15,240correct me or not? Because it'seasier that way, instead of me40400:26:15,240 --> 00:26:20,790interpreting what you just saidabout rust. Okay, so publisher40500:26:20,790 --> 00:26:25,260feeds is a feed that will bemarked with a special medium, or40600:26:25,260 --> 00:26:27,720whatever this is, this is apublisher feed. And it will40700:26:27,720 --> 00:26:33,930mainly have remote item fromremote items in there. So that40800:26:33,930 --> 00:26:38,460you can always go to thepublisher. And so I may be the40900:26:38,460 --> 00:26:42,330publisher of three differentpodcasts, I might even be the41000:26:42,330 --> 00:26:46,620publisher of an audio book, etc,etc. And that would all be in my41100:26:46,620 --> 00:26:51,210publisher feed, which makesthings for podcasting. There's41200:26:51,210 --> 00:26:55,800all kinds of uses, but there'sdefinitely uses for music. So41300:26:55,830 --> 00:26:58,800the am I do I have that? Right?That's what a publisher feed is.41400:27:00,240 --> 00:27:03,510Dave Jones: Yeah, well, yeah.Had this on the list. So I went41500:27:03,510 --> 00:27:07,980to see I wrote down a couple ofnotes. Yeah, that the publisher,41600:27:08,610 --> 00:27:11,310they're there. They're valid.Yeah, right there validation41700:27:11,310 --> 00:27:15,180process. Is there's there's afeed for publishers that41800:27:15,180 --> 00:27:19,440contains remote items. Yeah.Yeah. And remote items is41900:27:19,440 --> 00:27:21,300basically a feed of feeds. Yeah,42000:27:21,330 --> 00:27:24,330Adam Curry: exactly. So um, so Icould have a feed of all of my42100:27:24,540 --> 00:27:27,870podcasts. And you couldsubscribe to that feed, and42200:27:27,870 --> 00:27:32,010you'd get every new episode fromeach podcast that I publish42300:27:32,190 --> 00:27:35,820through that feed if you wantedto correct?42400:27:39,990 --> 00:27:47,130Dave Jones: It? Well. I mean, Ithink I think you could code it42500:27:47,130 --> 00:27:50,220Adam Curry: that way. Okay. Iunderstood, okay. It's more for42600:27:50,220 --> 00:27:54,330display purposes than for underthe hood functionality. But it42700:27:54,330 --> 00:27:55,770could be that way.42800:27:56,250 --> 00:27:59,040Dave Jones: You were the way youdescribed it as sort of like an42900:27:59,040 --> 00:28:00,630OPML I knew43000:28:01,920 --> 00:28:04,110Adam Curry: it was coming out ofmy mouth. I'm like, Dude, I just43100:28:04,110 --> 00:28:08,130I just gave him an OPML feednow. Okay. But43200:28:08,130 --> 00:28:09,840Dave Jones: I think you could dothat, though. I mean, like,43300:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,810like, you could code it up thatway where you could look at it.43400:28:12,810 --> 00:28:17,430And then and then like, sort ofparse it. Like, you could go43500:28:17,430 --> 00:28:20,370through to the source that yeah,you could do that. But I don't43600:28:20,370 --> 00:28:22,950know that. That was what theirgoal was.43700:28:23,640 --> 00:28:26,040Adam Curry: Something toconsider perhaps. Yeah,43800:28:26,070 --> 00:28:28,170Dave Jones: yeah, for sure. Sowell, they had two different43900:28:28,170 --> 00:28:31,650versions. And did you see thatit was like, it was like a44000:28:32,400 --> 00:28:35,640publisher that a publisher feedand then meet this, these are44100:28:35,640 --> 00:28:39,240mediums we're talking about?Publisher medium equals44200:28:39,240 --> 00:28:43,410publisher in this feed. So whenthat when it's a feed of, of44300:28:43,410 --> 00:28:46,200medium publisher, you know, thatthis is basically just a list44400:28:46,200 --> 00:28:52,830of, of other feeds where this,this publisher owns and then44500:28:52,830 --> 00:28:57,930there was a publisher l waslike, A, so you have a feed of44600:28:57,990 --> 00:29:02,010other feeds, and then you havesort of like a playlist of other44700:29:02,010 --> 00:29:05,100feeds, which is more what you'rethinking, kind of like along44800:29:05,100 --> 00:29:08,700lines of you're thinking of, oh,okay, oh, really following?44900:29:08,760 --> 00:29:09,270Alright,45000:29:09,270 --> 00:29:11,910Adam Curry: so there's two, or Ihadn't figured that one out yet.45100:29:11,940 --> 00:29:14,460Okay. So that's very much likethis. That's a playlist because45200:29:14,460 --> 00:29:19,110it's L. So a playlist. Okay. Idon't see why you wouldn't just45300:29:19,110 --> 00:29:22,530have one and just parse adifferent one. I guess it's the45400:29:22,530 --> 00:29:28,470same thing. Just seems like, ifyou I mean, you'd want it, it45500:29:28,470 --> 00:29:30,990seems to me, like you'd want tohave the functionality in both45600:29:31,020 --> 00:29:32,040both cases.45700:29:33,270 --> 00:29:37,080Dave Jones: Well, the sort ofthe whole idea here, I think45800:29:37,080 --> 00:29:42,960it's I mean, I think it's a goodone to is that you have you45900:29:42,960 --> 00:29:46,170can't you know, you're trying toavoid this situation where,46000:29:46,380 --> 00:29:54,810okay, I'm I I'm a feed and Ineed to and I'm gonna, and I'm46100:29:54,810 --> 00:30:02,910claiming that I'm published byThe New York Times as show that46200:30:02,940 --> 00:30:11,130somewhere in my author tag orwhatever. And then but but um,46300:30:11,160 --> 00:30:13,740but I'm lying about that Idon't, I'm not actually a New46400:30:13,740 --> 00:30:17,040York Times feed, I'm just tryingto ride that train or whatever.46500:30:18,330 --> 00:30:22,380Then you have this, all you havethis other side, which is the46600:30:22,380 --> 00:30:28,170publisher feed, which, if itlists your feed URL, as part of46700:30:28,170 --> 00:30:34,890its member, as a member, and youlist the publisher feed as your46800:30:34,890 --> 00:30:39,210parent, well, then you have sortof this dual LIS loose dual46900:30:39,210 --> 00:30:41,760validation, where it's like I'msaying, I belong to you, and47000:30:41,760 --> 00:30:46,140you're saying that I belong toyou. So we can be, we can be47100:30:46,140 --> 00:30:47,160sure that I belong to you.47200:30:47,190 --> 00:30:48,780Adam Curry: Okay, that makessense.47300:30:49,860 --> 00:30:51,690Dave Jones: Because the onlyother way to do it is with47400:30:52,080 --> 00:30:56,460something like public, you know,like a public key signing, right47500:30:56,460 --> 00:31:00,180Adam Curry: work. So where doesthat go in the so if I'm the47600:31:00,180 --> 00:31:04,320publisher of several podcasts,and I have no agenda, and I want47700:31:04,320 --> 00:31:08,370to validate no agenda as being apart of the Adam curry47800:31:08,490 --> 00:31:14,310publishing empire, where wherein my no agenda feed? What I put47900:31:14,310 --> 00:31:15,930what, for that validation.48000:31:17,940 --> 00:31:21,150Dave Jones: But my understandingwas that there was a, there was48100:31:21,150 --> 00:31:27,090a new tag for publisher. Let memake sure that this right. And48200:31:27,090 --> 00:31:29,880Adam Curry: that, so the tag forpublisher of that would have a48300:31:29,880 --> 00:31:33,750feed URL, and that refers backand back and forth. And it has a48400:31:33,750 --> 00:31:36,720validation in the publisher,remote item feed.48500:31:37,470 --> 00:31:41,970Dave Jones: So yes, in thecontent. Okay, so here's Yeah,48600:31:41,970 --> 00:31:46,740okay, this is this is. Okay,here's how I'm looking at it48700:31:46,740 --> 00:31:50,250right now. There's a couple of acouple of proposed ways to do48800:31:50,250 --> 00:31:56,160it. But this one is using remoteitems with a medium of48900:31:56,160 --> 00:32:09,120publisher. So the remote Yeah.So the medium of Publisher. Let49000:32:09,690 --> 00:32:11,670me try to this is this getsconfusing when you're trying to49100:32:11,700 --> 00:32:16,350just no kidding. describes it.Okay, you're the New York Times.49200:32:17,910 --> 00:32:21,810Let's use you. Okay, so you areyou are Adam curry. You have49300:32:21,810 --> 00:32:27,210currently what how many 12345?Podcasts, something49400:32:27,210 --> 00:32:27,990Adam Curry: like that? Yeah.49500:32:28,380 --> 00:32:30,300Dave Jones: No agenda,podcasting tip when no49600:32:30,330 --> 00:32:33,420Adam Curry: learning facts boostthe ground scramble.49700:32:33,600 --> 00:32:37,500Dave Jones: Yeah, the five youhave five shows. So you would49800:32:37,500 --> 00:32:40,860put you would, you would createa new feed, which would be a49900:32:40,860 --> 00:32:46,560publisher, which would be a feedwhere it had a podcast medium of50000:32:46,560 --> 00:32:52,830Publisher, then you would haveremote items in you would have50100:32:52,830 --> 00:32:58,710five remote items in the channelof that feed. Yep, the one for50200:32:58,710 --> 00:33:03,810each of those shows withreferencing, you know, the feed50300:33:03,810 --> 00:33:10,980good, the URL, the medium. Sothen you in each of your shows50400:33:10,980 --> 00:33:14,220where you have in each of theactual feeds, no agenda,50500:33:14,250 --> 00:33:18,000podcasts and YouTube Topo, Mofazblah, blah, blah. In each of50600:33:18,000 --> 00:33:27,300those shows, you would put in apodcast remote item, link back50700:33:27,300 --> 00:33:31,740to the publisher feed. And theremote item would be a medium of50800:33:31,740 --> 00:33:37,080Publisher. Okay, that wouldserve as a link back to the50900:33:37,080 --> 00:33:40,500parent sort of the thepublishing to publisher parent51000:33:40,500 --> 00:33:44,760feed. To say I belong to thispublisher got51100:33:44,760 --> 00:33:47,730Adam Curry: it? Who is this for?Who gives a rat's ass about this51200:33:47,760 --> 00:33:48,840is what I'm trying tounderstand.51300:33:49,650 --> 00:33:54,270Dave Jones: Musicians primarily.Okay, good. That makes so yeah,51400:33:54,270 --> 00:33:57,870like you would have. That wayyou could have as many fields as51500:33:57,870 --> 00:34:00,210you want. But if you if somebodywants to say I want to listen to51600:34:00,210 --> 00:34:02,280all the albums by easilyCostello,51700:34:02,880 --> 00:34:05,820Adam Curry: then you go to thepublisher, Okay, God, that makes51800:34:05,820 --> 00:34:06,570total sense.51900:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,450Dave Jones: And you can followit up the chain too. So if52000:34:09,450 --> 00:34:13,590you're on one of her albums, youhave a link by default going to52100:34:13,590 --> 00:34:18,330the publisher feed. So you cansort of step up one level and52200:34:18,330 --> 00:34:20,490Adam Curry: this a what otherwhat other albums does Ainslie52300:34:20,490 --> 00:34:25,230Costello have? Exactly? How doesGod which could even be a sub52400:34:25,860 --> 00:34:29,790sub publisher of like a biggerentity?52500:34:31,469 --> 00:34:31,919Dave Jones: Yeah,52600:34:32,519 --> 00:34:35,609Adam Curry: for sure. So can itcan you include a I guess you52700:34:35,609 --> 00:34:39,329can, um, so she could. She couldbe Ainsley Costello. She's a52800:34:39,329 --> 00:34:45,749publisher of all these albums,but but she is then a sub of52900:34:45,749 --> 00:34:50,699like phantom power records orwhatever. Yeah, so this could53000:34:50,699 --> 00:34:54,389put a publisher tag in thatwould refer up to her record,53100:34:54,389 --> 00:34:58,319quote, unquote, record label orwhatever the entity is, or which53200:34:58,319 --> 00:35:02,459goes all the way up to Godultimately Scott's got sitting53300:35:02,459 --> 00:35:05,549at the top with this bigpublisher tag and a lot of53400:35:05,549 --> 00:35:06,299remote items.53500:35:07,079 --> 00:35:09,209Dave Jones: And in his guid isis one.53600:35:12,150 --> 00:35:13,380Adam Curry: Exactly. Okay.53700:35:14,250 --> 00:35:19,470Dave Jones: So you can see thatas something like what's a good53800:35:19,470 --> 00:35:24,270example of that? Like? Wonderthat wondering, aren't they53900:35:24,270 --> 00:35:27,420owned by Amazon? Yeah, yeah, Ithink so. Yeah. Okay. So you54000:35:27,420 --> 00:35:35,310could have a wondery Publisherlist, but then Amazon podcasts54100:35:35,700 --> 00:35:40,890could be like, one level higher.Got it. That had multiple54200:35:40,890 --> 00:35:45,360publisher feeds in that feed?Yeah.54300:35:46,500 --> 00:35:48,690Adam Curry: Yeah. Makes sense.Okay. Well, so what do we need54400:35:48,690 --> 00:35:50,610to do to to make that official?54500:35:52,020 --> 00:35:56,100Dave Jones: Well, I have it onmy list. To put it into that we54600:35:56,100 --> 00:35:58,380need to talk about this ingeneral. So I mean, this is54700:35:58,380 --> 00:36:06,600like, for show of 2024. Baby, wehave to talk about strategy. For54800:36:06,600 --> 00:36:07,800what for phase seven.54900:36:10,980 --> 00:36:17,400Adam Curry: First, hot namespacetalk. 2024 is hotter than 2023.55000:36:18,780 --> 00:36:21,450Dave Jones: The hottest, thehottest new year on record best,55100:36:21,450 --> 00:36:29,520right? According to the IPCC.Yes. So we I mean, like, I don't55200:36:29,520 --> 00:36:34,500know if we have we haven't facedseven. I don't know if we've55300:36:34,500 --> 00:36:38,880talked about it. Well, wehaven't faced seven so far. Is55400:36:38,880 --> 00:36:42,420only actually I was actually inthe activity pub bridge code55500:36:42,420 --> 00:36:46,320here. And I think I found theunwrap this that killed us.55600:36:47,489 --> 00:36:49,139Adam Curry: Shirts irritatesyou.55700:36:52,170 --> 00:36:53,670Dave Jones: Let me get back tothe namespace repo though.55800:36:53,700 --> 00:36:57,000Because I have a have a plan docfor55900:36:58,170 --> 00:37:00,390Adam Curry: Facebook. He's got aplan. And he's the man with the56000:37:00,390 --> 00:37:02,730plan. The plan? Okay, here itis.56100:37:03,150 --> 00:37:07,830Dave Jones: So what we have onthe list right now is to try to56200:37:07,830 --> 00:37:13,110get into Phase seven isauthorization. So this this56300:37:13,110 --> 00:37:19,800podcast, verify ownership tagthing. Adding keys and addresses56400:37:19,980 --> 00:37:25,890in the value recipient? Andchat, podcast chat56500:37:25,889 --> 00:37:28,859Adam Curry: tag, say again,given them again, sorry, I was56600:37:28,859 --> 00:37:31,229distracted. Podcast,56700:37:32,220 --> 00:37:37,470Dave Jones: the verifyownership. And then adding the56800:37:37,770 --> 00:37:39,540adding the keys and address.56900:37:39,630 --> 00:37:40,590Adam Curry: Right, right.57000:37:40,920 --> 00:37:41,850Dave Jones: To the valuereceived.57100:37:42,359 --> 00:37:44,099Adam Curry: The LV found tag.Yeah,57200:37:44,609 --> 00:37:48,239Dave Jones: that'll be foundthing. Then the podcast chat57300:37:48,239 --> 00:37:52,379tag, which is the the, you know,ephemeral version of social57400:37:52,379 --> 00:37:56,999interact. And that's, that's allthis in the plan right now. So57500:37:57,299 --> 00:38:02,099we could, we could get So twoquestions. I mean, we add this,57600:38:02,489 --> 00:38:04,619I can add this right now. Ithink I should the publisher,57700:38:04,619 --> 00:38:04,949then57800:38:05,040 --> 00:38:08,370Adam Curry: well, we haveimplementations. That's usually57900:38:08,370 --> 00:38:12,150our rule. No, right. Now, ofcourse, that means Sam Sethi58000:38:12,150 --> 00:38:14,490will be driving the entirenamespace because he implements58100:38:14,490 --> 00:38:17,700everything. He wakes up in themorning. I got an idea. Boom,58200:38:17,700 --> 00:38:18,990make it a tag.58300:38:21,659 --> 00:38:25,349Dave Jones: This is what Okay,the rule we typically was the58400:38:25,349 --> 00:38:29,489loose rule was always we need atleast one host at least one app58500:38:29,489 --> 00:38:33,479to implement it. Yeah. We haveno need to say we made we need58600:38:33,479 --> 00:38:36,539made it expand that to say atleast two apps because Sam's58700:38:36,539 --> 00:38:40,559going to implement everything.So we need we may need to Sam's58800:38:40,559 --> 00:38:44,069the default. We either eithergimme right, so we needed we58900:38:44,069 --> 00:38:48,329need to we need two apps. Weneed some we need Sam plus one.59000:38:48,629 --> 00:38:48,959One59100:38:48,960 --> 00:38:51,600Adam Curry: host and two apps ortwo hosts on two apps.59200:38:52,290 --> 00:38:56,070Dave Jones: One One host andthen whoever sent the59300:38:56,340 --> 00:38:58,950Adam Curry: Girls One Cupsomehow that just jumped into my59400:38:58,950 --> 00:39:02,970head. I don't know what happenedthere. Yes. 221 host two s one59500:39:02,970 --> 00:39:05,580host two apps. Okay, that's thatsounds fair.59600:39:07,110 --> 00:39:09,810Dave Jones: And I think I meanno well I mean wavelengths59700:39:09,810 --> 00:39:12,270already talking about it. DobbyDas is the one that yeah,59800:39:12,270 --> 00:39:15,000Adam Curry: he's he's runningwith scissors over there. Yeah.59900:39:15,780 --> 00:39:15,960So60000:39:15,960 --> 00:39:18,240Dave Jones: there's there's yourtwo hosts. There's there's two60100:39:18,240 --> 00:39:19,530hosts out there. Yeah.60200:39:19,560 --> 00:39:21,540Adam Curry: So we just need onemore app to implement it60300:39:21,929 --> 00:39:24,629Dave Jones: was I mean, that'sSteven Bell's a slam dunk60400:39:24,629 --> 00:39:26,219because he wants thisfunctionality.60500:39:26,789 --> 00:39:29,489Adam Curry: Yeah, cuz he willput it into ln beats and all60600:39:29,489 --> 00:39:34,439that stuff. And curio Kassar bythe way, if I can geniza if I60700:39:34,439 --> 00:39:39,389can just say thank you, Steven bHe made an integration between M60800:39:39,389 --> 00:39:43,499airless which is the playoutsoftware I use and the split60900:39:43,499 --> 00:39:48,869kit. So now, when I end up doinga Bookstagram ball tomorrow, God61000:39:48,869 --> 00:39:53,699willing, when I hear this beenwell, yeah, tell me about it. So61100:39:53,699 --> 00:39:57,239now I just load up the song intomy player. The minute I hit the61200:39:57,239 --> 00:40:03,209play button, the timer set Thestart time in the split kit. Oh,61300:40:03,209 --> 00:40:06,629well, I no longer have to startand then go over there and then61400:40:06,659 --> 00:40:09,809click, click to make that theactive block for the remote61500:40:09,809 --> 00:40:16,109item. It just does it and it'sit's like magic. It's beautiful61600:40:16,109 --> 00:40:17,849how he did that is so cool.61700:40:19,050 --> 00:40:23,370Dave Jones: Walking. Let's see,like how did he do that though?61800:40:23,370 --> 00:40:26,220Because I thought I thought intheir list was a compiled like a61900:40:26,220 --> 00:40:27,870Windows software. Yes,62000:40:27,870 --> 00:40:33,300Adam Curry: but you have a seewhat it's called here. Because62100:40:33,300 --> 00:40:37,680errorless is meant for, youknow, radio type deals. So you62200:40:37,680 --> 00:40:47,430have a blogging function, andyou can add stuff to it. So you62300:40:47,430 --> 00:40:53,490could technically send the songdata to your icecast server, but62400:40:53,490 --> 00:41:01,200also as HTTP GET. So you send aGET request to the curio hoster62500:41:01,230 --> 00:41:06,270with some Steven Bell magicsauce. Yes. And on the split62600:41:06,270 --> 00:41:10,770kit, you have the answer yougive it a username password pair62700:41:10,830 --> 00:41:14,940in an Error List and thatcorresponds with your username62800:41:14,940 --> 00:41:19,440password pair in the split kit.And then when you download the62900:41:19,440 --> 00:41:25,170songs through the split kit, thehas metadata in there that63000:41:25,170 --> 00:41:32,970identifies what song it is. Andso you so that is sent to from63100:41:33,000 --> 00:41:37,260Mr. List to the Steven Bellempire. And then the Steven Bell63200:41:37,260 --> 00:41:41,280Empire goes ah, okay, who'slogged in as this? Oh, it's him.63300:41:41,280 --> 00:41:42,420Boom. WebSocket63400:41:45,360 --> 00:41:46,470Dave Jones: this, this is like63500:41:46,469 --> 00:41:49,109Adam Curry: a web hook. Yeah,yeah, web hook. I think what is63600:41:49,109 --> 00:41:52,469Yeah, okay. Beautiful. Was whocares what it is? It works.63700:41:53,099 --> 00:41:55,229Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. That'srad, though. This is cool that63800:41:55,229 --> 00:41:56,309they have that ability.63900:41:56,369 --> 00:41:59,009Adam Curry: It's, it's yetagain, Rube Goldberg machine.64000:42:00,269 --> 00:42:03,929It's so beautiful. I love thisstuff. I love it so much.64100:42:04,589 --> 00:42:08,309Dave Jones: Okay, so I justadded I just added publisher64200:42:08,309 --> 00:42:11,189phase to phase seven to the planlist to the64300:42:11,190 --> 00:42:16,140Adam Curry: plan. But we stillneed a second app. Well, we have64400:42:16,140 --> 00:42:18,990the we have we have StephenBell, of course. Beautiful. And64500:42:18,989 --> 00:42:21,059Dave Jones: we don't have wedon't have explicit64600:42:21,059 --> 00:42:21,839confirmation. But64700:42:24,449 --> 00:42:26,189Adam Curry: you feel let me seesmiles. You feel me?64800:42:26,219 --> 00:42:31,829Dave Jones: Yeah, it's there.He's just slammed on. Added64900:42:31,829 --> 00:42:34,079face. Okay. All right. We gotthat covered.65000:42:34,229 --> 00:42:37,349Adam Curry: I have something todiscuss. Yeah. What's your65100:42:37,349 --> 00:42:44,849behavior? Dave Jones? No. It'slike one of those honey, we have65200:42:44,849 --> 00:42:45,719to talk. But.65300:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,620Dave Jones: But no, the worst isworse than that. When this like,65400:42:49,860 --> 00:42:53,760Hey, can we talk? Oh, no, butnot right. But not right. Later.65500:42:53,760 --> 00:42:53,970Can65600:42:53,969 --> 00:42:58,379Adam Curry: we? Can we have achat later? Yeah. It's the65700:42:58,379 --> 00:43:01,559worst. I had two of those. I'mdivorced twice. Alright, here we65800:43:01,559 --> 00:43:06,029go. So I'm listening to the newmedia show. I didn't pull clips.65900:43:07,169 --> 00:43:11,249And he was really quitebeautiful, because I finally66000:43:11,249 --> 00:43:16,139understood not only how messedup but how the podcast66100:43:16,139 --> 00:43:20,279advertising system works. AndI've always wondered because I66200:43:20,279 --> 00:43:25,019thought everybody was kind of onthis IAB standard. And didn't66300:43:25,019 --> 00:43:29,939really matter where you hostthat stuff. But it does. It sure66400:43:29,939 --> 00:43:38,039does. And the IAB standard hassome minimums, which, whatever66500:43:38,039 --> 00:43:43,319it is, they are able todetermine unique download slash66600:43:43,319 --> 00:43:47,999play, like someone hit the playbutton. For for a minute of66700:43:47,999 --> 00:43:52,199audio, that's their minimum fora minute of audio. And they can66800:43:52,199 --> 00:43:56,609kind of determine uniqueness bysetting time windows. I think66900:43:56,609 --> 00:44:00,809it's if unless you see that thatidentifier come back within two67000:44:00,809 --> 00:44:08,759hours, is considered the same.The person and everybody has67100:44:08,759 --> 00:44:15,029different implementations ofthis IAB standard. And so it's67200:44:15,029 --> 00:44:19,859not uniform at all. And what'sinteresting is that the ad67300:44:19,859 --> 00:44:24,449buyers, they have their ownknowledge, they have their own67400:44:24,449 --> 00:44:28,079spreadsheets and they knowexactly, okay, well, those guys,67500:44:28,079 --> 00:44:32,579they over count, so we discountthem here. This, you know, we67600:44:32,579 --> 00:44:37,499feel that and I probably thinkthat blueberry is probably one67700:44:37,499 --> 00:44:41,099of the best at the stats becauseTodd has invested by his own67800:44:41,669 --> 00:44:46,499admission of a lot of time andresources and years and he has a67900:44:46,499 --> 00:44:51,149lot of external sources for youknow, bots and bullcrap and all68000:44:51,149 --> 00:44:57,689kinds of gaming, etc. So, whenpeople get when, when there's an68100:44:57,689 --> 00:45:02,939ad buy and the podcast is onblueberry. The advertisers will68200:45:02,939 --> 00:45:07,499probably give the the expectedCPM because they know that68300:45:07,499 --> 00:45:10,169Todd's numbers are pretty good.weight68400:45:10,170 --> 00:45:12,840Dave Jones: by his he saidmultiple times that he throws68500:45:12,840 --> 00:45:17,880out tons of data like yes, heover he overcorrect. Yes.68600:45:17,880 --> 00:45:18,930Purpose. Yes.68700:45:19,409 --> 00:45:25,829Adam Curry: So when the iOS 17,apocalypse happened, his numbers68800:45:25,829 --> 00:45:30,959didn't really go down because hehas formulas and secret sauce as68900:45:30,959 --> 00:45:35,279he calls it, which I have nodesire to taste. Yes,69000:45:36,960 --> 00:45:38,070Dave Jones: yourselves toyourself.69100:45:40,020 --> 00:45:45,030Adam Curry: He has secret sauce,that he says that he has, that69200:45:45,030 --> 00:45:50,880certain apps have certainbehavior that he's bench tested,69300:45:51,480 --> 00:45:55,080you know, over the years, and sohe he can get pretty close to69400:45:55,080 --> 00:46:02,250like 70% or 75% of the actuallistens, have a percentage of69500:46:02,490 --> 00:46:05,370the podcast apps or the personthat the people who are69600:46:05,370 --> 00:46:10,140listening to that podcast, whichis pretty good. And I'm sure69700:46:10,140 --> 00:46:13,110that it varies. And I'm surethat you know, when when, when69800:46:13,140 --> 00:46:16,950there's an upgrade to someplayer, I'm sure he has to go in69900:46:16,950 --> 00:46:19,140and everyone has to scramblearound and figure out does70000:46:19,140 --> 00:46:23,760something change, etc. But it'sall the bottom line is, it's all70100:46:23,760 --> 00:46:28,410bull crap. All of it is allultimately just measuring one70200:46:28,440 --> 00:46:31,500minute of download, which ofcourse gives the advertiser70300:46:31,740 --> 00:46:36,090really nothing. And, you know,the industry has moved from70400:46:36,090 --> 00:46:40,500calling it downloads to plays.Okay, so on the hit play, but70500:46:40,500 --> 00:46:42,810they really don't know ifsomeone listened at all. I mean,70600:46:42,840 --> 00:46:48,030nobody absolutely knows ifpeople are listening, or how far70700:46:48,030 --> 00:46:50,550they've listened into thepodcast, or if they listened far70800:46:50,550 --> 00:46:55,020enough to hear the ads. I mean,that's, that's clear. And, and70900:46:55,020 --> 00:47:00,150so ultimately, when you pop allthe way back up the stack, the71000:47:00,150 --> 00:47:03,450advertisers themselves who gothrough the media, or the agency71100:47:03,450 --> 00:47:07,140to the media buyer, ultimatelydown to either the podcast71200:47:07,140 --> 00:47:12,090network, or whoever's doing thebuys. And so they they wind up a71300:47:12,090 --> 00:47:15,810bet, blueberry, and blueberrysays, Okay, here's how our stats71400:47:15,810 --> 00:47:18,060work. This is we're going togive you in the results. And71500:47:18,360 --> 00:47:21,000there's a reckoning after thefact and that reckoning is,71600:47:21,000 --> 00:47:28,080okay, we agreed on for yournetwork, we do $20 CPM, so $2071700:47:28,080 --> 00:47:33,810per 1000 plays. But if we did abuy and also include something71800:47:33,810 --> 00:47:36,720that's on Libsyn, I have noidea. So I'm just using Lipson71900:47:36,720 --> 00:47:41,280as an example. They may say,Well, we only give you $15 CPM,72000:47:41,280 --> 00:47:44,940because we know that yournumbers are shit. And so yeah,72100:47:44,940 --> 00:47:47,490pretty much and they may not.And they may not communicate72200:47:47,490 --> 00:47:50,100that for between blueberry andLipson. So this really works72300:47:50,100 --> 00:47:54,090more by podcast host, or in acase of like megaphone, let's72400:47:54,090 --> 00:47:57,360just call them the host. So andthere's it's very complicated.72500:47:57,360 --> 00:48:00,390There's a lot of overheads, alot of log file processing.72600:48:00,570 --> 00:48:03,330Seems like millions and millionshave been invested in that. But72700:48:03,330 --> 00:48:08,430there's no, Nielsen, there is noNielsen for podcast statistics.72800:48:08,700 --> 00:48:11,490I thought there was I thoughtthat what AIB was, but it's not72900:48:11,490 --> 00:48:15,060true. And but there's anadjustment that that media73000:48:15,060 --> 00:48:18,450buyers who of course, are verysmart. They know all right,73100:48:18,450 --> 00:48:21,510those guys over count those guyssimply to raise pretty73200:48:21,510 --> 00:48:23,430reasonable I don't know whatthat spreadsheet looks like,73300:48:23,430 --> 00:48:28,080doesn't matter. But nobodyreally knows play numbers. And73400:48:28,140 --> 00:48:30,870so they had this longconversation, Rob seemed kind of73500:48:30,870 --> 00:48:34,650shocked by this. Rob seemedshocked that Todd was admitting73600:48:34,650 --> 00:48:38,910that it's crap. But Todd doesn'tcare. Because all the people who73700:48:38,970 --> 00:48:43,350are on his on hisinfrastructure, they get good73800:48:43,350 --> 00:48:48,720numbers and advertisers feel, ormedia buyers feel confident that73900:48:48,720 --> 00:48:52,500those numbers are good. Now,ultimately, the advertiser,74000:48:52,860 --> 00:48:56,160they'll look at their return oninvestment, which is the typical74100:48:57,000 --> 00:49:00,150half of my advertising money isworking. I don't know which half74200:49:00,180 --> 00:49:03,450because they really don't. Allthey know is they put X amount74300:49:03,450 --> 00:49:07,140in and then sales went up.That's how it's supposed to work74400:49:07,170 --> 00:49:11,190now, where that comes from, thatcomes into analysis. And it74500:49:11,190 --> 00:49:13,800could be you know, did it comefrom Tiktok, but they may know74600:49:13,800 --> 00:49:18,900some things. So all of this isvery, very, very fuzzy. And then74700:49:18,900 --> 00:49:21,870they get into this bigconversation about nobody has74800:49:21,870 --> 00:49:24,900player stats, nobody has playerstats yet. Well, actually,74900:49:25,080 --> 00:49:31,590Spotify does, but Spotify. Whoknows what they're doing. And I75000:49:31,590 --> 00:49:36,120just want to say up front, Ilove value for value. I think it75100:49:36,120 --> 00:49:41,280is the way forward in general,for all media for all media.75200:49:42,690 --> 00:49:46,380It's a fair way to do it. Onlythe stuff that is really75300:49:46,380 --> 00:49:49,680outstanding product and canbuild a community because we're75400:49:49,680 --> 00:49:52,290not in the land of one waytelevision. We're not in the75500:49:52,290 --> 00:49:56,850land of one way radio isinteractive. You only get people75600:49:56,850 --> 00:49:59,550to support you with time, talentand treasure which by the way75700:50:00,000 --> 00:50:03,540Time, and talent is veryvaluable. You know, there are75800:50:03,540 --> 00:50:07,290people who are do things for myshows that would I could not75900:50:07,290 --> 00:50:11,460afford, no matter how much moneyI made on the podcast. So it's,76000:50:11,490 --> 00:50:14,820it's, it's also very valuable. Ilove value for value that's in76100:50:14,820 --> 00:50:19,500my heart. I am not antimarketing, I'm just not, you76200:50:19,500 --> 00:50:24,600can't be the world, the economyruns on marketing. What I'm76300:50:24,600 --> 00:50:31,860against is that the podcastindustrial complex, completely76400:50:31,860 --> 00:50:37,380ignores, in fact, is very rudetowards the audience, and76500:50:37,410 --> 00:50:42,390ignores the relationship thatcan and should exist between76600:50:42,390 --> 00:50:47,100between the podcaster and theaudience. That relationship is76700:50:47,100 --> 00:50:51,960everything. And what I mean bythat is if I say, Please boost76800:50:51,960 --> 00:50:58,470us people boost us, if I say,Please, use this app, a portion76900:50:58,470 --> 00:51:01,350of the audience goes to use thatapp, I do that every single no77000:51:01,350 --> 00:51:05,310agenda show you and if you golook at op three for no agenda77100:51:05,310 --> 00:51:08,400show, you'll see that pod verseis very high. Up Now I've77200:51:08,400 --> 00:51:13,110started talking about podcastguru. And so it works. And this77300:51:13,110 --> 00:51:16,650is the this is the relationship.If I say go buy this product. If77400:51:16,650 --> 00:51:19,650I if I was honest, and I'mauthentic, I think people go buy77500:51:19,650 --> 00:51:24,960that product. Yeah. So the waythat has worked out with77600:51:24,960 --> 00:51:28,890advertising, I'm just gonna saymarketing, because it's more77700:51:28,890 --> 00:51:32,490fair to say marketing thanadvertising. But he's really, I77800:51:32,490 --> 00:51:35,400know, this sucks. I'm gonnathrow these ads in your face,77900:51:35,400 --> 00:51:39,120but you're supporting us. That'snot a way to go. This very78000:51:39,120 --> 00:51:43,560negative, very negativerelationship. And even if even78100:51:43,560 --> 00:51:47,490the podcasters say it, theyforget the stupid, they forget78200:51:47,490 --> 00:51:50,880to even say that. Now there's alot of podcasts say, hey, you78300:51:50,880 --> 00:51:53,880know, I gotta I got advertisers,please visit their websites. I'm78400:51:53,880 --> 00:51:57,510gonna read off their names. Now.Whatever it is. It's irritating,78500:51:57,510 --> 00:52:03,900but it feels better. But the onething that nobody has, is those78600:52:03,900 --> 00:52:06,720player stats except we do.78700:52:08,099 --> 00:52:11,519Dave Jones: And who we we areagainst index?78800:52:12,060 --> 00:52:16,200Adam Curry: Well, let me startabout me first. I have extremely78900:52:16,200 --> 00:52:21,690valuable play statistics. Of allmy podcasts, in fact, DeVore I79000:52:21,690 --> 00:52:24,660can I use it regularly? Becausewhen people are streaming79100:52:24,660 --> 00:52:29,100Satoshis per minute, is it thewhole audience? No. Is it a79200:52:29,100 --> 00:52:32,700percentage of the audience? Yes.Can I make a reasonable79300:52:32,700 --> 00:52:38,220assumption? So for example, Ilook at it, I never look at79400:52:38,220 --> 00:52:40,770downloads. I mean, once in awhile, I look at just what what79500:52:40,770 --> 00:52:45,120does op three say for, you know,the overall monthly unique users79600:52:45,120 --> 00:52:47,910or audience whatever it is, it'sit's interesting doesn't Matt79700:52:47,910 --> 00:52:53,100doesn't pay my rent. And I'll golook at the I'll go into79800:52:53,790 --> 00:52:58,290contracts dot app, because Ihave a split for from no agenda79900:52:58,290 --> 00:53:03,600into Alby. And then I can lookat my per show, I can look at a80000:53:03,600 --> 00:53:07,410range of shows and say wherepeople dropping off. And it's80100:53:07,410 --> 00:53:12,150very, and we've noticed that itdoesn't matter. If we we've80200:53:12,150 --> 00:53:18,090moved art, our donation segmentto the end of the show. Now, for80300:53:18,090 --> 00:53:20,940a while though, it was for acouple of reasons. One, they80400:53:20,940 --> 00:53:25,740were getting pretty long. And wewould feel rushed, if we did it80500:53:25,830 --> 00:53:29,280midway the show, like and thenwe start getting irritated by80600:53:29,280 --> 00:53:34,500longer notes, etc. And we movedit to the back. And and so the80700:53:34,500 --> 00:53:36,960two things you look at is one,did we get a drop off in80800:53:36,960 --> 00:53:40,200revenue? No. But did we get adrop off on people listening?80900:53:40,200 --> 00:53:44,370No. Interestingly, people wouldcome back. And that, of course,81000:53:44,370 --> 00:53:49,560is people who have supported theshow. And so we use these, and81100:53:49,560 --> 00:53:52,410this per minute, and you canreally see it'd be every show81200:53:52,410 --> 00:53:56,790people drop off over time.That's normal. But it's very,81300:53:56,790 --> 00:54:03,660very valuable for how we how Irun my, my podcasts to know what81400:54:03,660 --> 00:54:06,330people are doing. And I'm, andI'm sitting there realizing81500:54:06,330 --> 00:54:12,090like, holy crap, this is exactlythe data that marketers want to81600:54:12,090 --> 00:54:17,670see. They want to know, wherepeople listening when my ad81700:54:17,670 --> 00:54:25,440played. Right. So interestinglyenough, yes, podcasts index does81800:54:25,440 --> 00:54:30,420have that data. Because whatmost of it, most of the apps get81900:54:30,420 --> 00:54:36,300the value block from the indexfrom our API. We hand off and82000:54:36,300 --> 00:54:40,650the deal is you're using ourAPI. So we want 1%. So every82100:54:40,650 --> 00:54:45,810payment, we actually have thatdata for every single podcast82200:54:45,810 --> 00:54:50,820that uses the value for value,streaming, Satoshi system. Now,82300:54:50,850 --> 00:54:52,170right, I don't want to become82400:54:52,770 --> 00:54:56,070Dave Jones: I will say that, letme just throw that in that. This82500:54:56,070 --> 00:54:59,100is per it's totally anonymizeddata as well.82600:54:59,129 --> 00:55:02,159Adam Curry: This is very this isKey, the only thing we have is a82700:55:02,159 --> 00:55:06,659username, which often isanonymous podcast guru user or82800:55:06,659 --> 00:55:12,149user 35924. Lots of times peopleput their their aliases in82900:55:12,149 --> 00:55:15,299Sometimes people put theiractual name in. But it is, in83000:55:15,299 --> 00:55:19,919this effect anonymous, that wecan't actually track much other83100:55:19,919 --> 00:55:24,059than you sent this. If you senta message, here's what the83200:55:24,059 --> 00:55:28,289message was, here's what podcastit was from. And now with value83300:55:28,289 --> 00:55:33,389time splits, we often know atwhat point in the in the know we83400:55:33,389 --> 00:55:38,849always we know what point in thepodcast what, what minutes, etc,83500:55:38,849 --> 00:55:39,539it was sent.83600:55:40,170 --> 00:55:41,610Dave Jones: There's no IPaddresses, there's83700:55:41,609 --> 00:55:43,769Adam Curry: no nothing, none ofthat. There's no There's no now83800:55:43,859 --> 00:55:47,999if I'm just before I continuewith my with my rant here, if83900:55:47,999 --> 00:55:51,299I'm not mistaken, although ithasn't been implemented, there84000:55:51,299 --> 00:55:56,879is a way for these valuepayments to be sent that the84100:55:56,879 --> 00:56:02,009podcaster could hit reply andsend a payment back with a84200:56:02,009 --> 00:56:07,799message. Am I correct? Yes. Butalmost no one is doing that, or84300:56:07,829 --> 00:56:09,959what are we missing for thatpiece to work?84400:56:11,250 --> 00:56:15,540Dave Jones: Well, I don't knowhow many apps do it currently I84500:56:15,540 --> 00:56:19,890know that we have I know that. Iknow that curio caster does and84600:56:20,100 --> 00:56:25,920will also Steven bass apps, wecan look in the we can we can84700:56:25,920 --> 00:56:29,940look in the boost in thedonation segment. And we can see84800:56:30,030 --> 00:56:35,640because in with any any boothsthat comes in, where we where we84900:56:35,640 --> 00:56:38,490read it in the in the segment,it also has some debugging85000:56:38,490 --> 00:56:42,240information that shows what allis in the TLV record. And one of85100:56:42,240 --> 00:56:45,750the things that's in the to Vthat would show up is and I85200:56:45,750 --> 00:56:49,980noticed them as I'm reading themis if it has a reply to address85300:56:50,040 --> 00:56:53,370and if it has the reply to caseand address then you can you can85400:56:53,370 --> 00:56:54,000boost back.85500:56:54,030 --> 00:56:58,680Adam Curry: Yes, I see. Okay, socurio caster has reply, address,85600:56:58,680 --> 00:57:02,700custom key custom value, etc.Okay, and let me see fountain85700:57:02,730 --> 00:57:06,420probably doesn't it's probablyonly curio caster, the doing85800:57:06,420 --> 00:57:13,440okay, so that. So that'spossible. Imagine now, we're not85900:57:13,440 --> 00:57:16,650going to become a statisticsprovider for anybody. We're not86000:57:16,650 --> 00:57:22,230interested in that. But I canimagine a system, remember the86100:57:22,230 --> 00:57:25,680most important part thateveryone's overlooking in the86200:57:25,680 --> 00:57:29,520podcast industrial complex, andI'm trying to offer a solution86300:57:30,240 --> 00:57:34,380at the same time and onboardinginto the value for value system.86400:57:35,790 --> 00:57:41,220If, if a podcaster has a tagthey can put into their feed,86500:57:41,700 --> 00:57:46,590which would be part of a remoteitem. But I will just put it86600:57:46,590 --> 00:57:53,640this way. It would serve as atoggle feed in the app, which86700:57:53,640 --> 00:57:56,430means I listened to add I'mgonna say insertions just to86800:57:56,430 --> 00:57:59,760make it simple. There's otherways of doing it. But to toggle86900:57:59,790 --> 00:58:05,460add insertions on or off. If Iif I toggle it on, that means87000:58:05,460 --> 00:58:11,970I'm going to get the insertedad. And at the minute that ad87100:58:11,970 --> 00:58:17,580plays. It's a value time split,which fires off a payment to a87200:58:17,580 --> 00:58:21,480wallet that the advertiser mediaagency, whoever's responsible87300:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,950for the tracking can see. Whichthen immediately fires off a87400:58:25,950 --> 00:58:29,520Return Payment. Thank you forlistening to our ad.87500:58:31,530 --> 00:58:35,550Dave Jones: A Whitney, so Okay,so So you're basically you're87600:58:35,580 --> 00:58:40,050okay, you say you're, you'resending, let's just say one set,87700:58:41,460 --> 00:58:45,000you're sending one set to theadvertiser wallet, who then87800:58:45,150 --> 00:58:50,190Adam Curry: they send you fiveset. So here's from the high87900:58:50,190 --> 00:58:56,580level, you can support us withvalue for value. Or if you88000:58:56,580 --> 00:59:01,320toggle the switch, we're goingto work you can in the88100:59:01,320 --> 00:59:03,960onboarding part, you can gopretty far down the road, like,88200:59:04,500 --> 00:59:06,990we'll give you a walletautomatically will give you a88300:59:06,990 --> 00:59:10,590wallet with 1000. SAS has a lotof things you can do. The point88400:59:10,590 --> 00:59:14,910is to onboard people simplyeffectively and easily. If you88500:59:14,910 --> 00:59:19,830toggle ads on, then the minuteyou listen to an ad, it will88600:59:19,830 --> 00:59:24,210fire off a payment, if you willactually it will pay you for88700:59:24,210 --> 00:59:27,810listening to that ad, not a lot.But when I look at the stats88800:59:27,810 --> 00:59:33,930that we have, of course of allthe apps fountain is is miles88900:59:33,930 --> 00:59:37,560ahead and transaction volume notin payment volume necessarily,89000:59:38,010 --> 00:59:41,490but in transaction volume. And Ibelieve that's because the89100:59:41,520 --> 00:59:46,770onboarding that they do withlisten to any old podcast, and89200:59:46,770 --> 00:59:49,290we'll pay you a Satoshi perminute, which is not every89300:59:49,290 --> 00:59:53,460single day etc. Because theyhave to manage that too. But But89400:59:53,460 --> 00:59:58,590I think that onboarding has beenextremely successful. So I just89500:59:58,590 --> 01:00:02,820want to onboard people Andultimately, the cost of sending89601:00:03,060 --> 01:00:07,050one sat back, if you do a loopor five SATs doesn't matter has89701:00:07,050 --> 01:00:11,250to come out of the CPM. But Ibelieve that that CPM will89801:00:11,250 --> 01:00:17,730become more valuable. If it'swrapped up in actual play stats89901:00:17,730 --> 01:00:23,010where the advertiser hasconfirmation that a person90001:00:23,670 --> 01:00:28,680listen to that ad. And you don'teven have it will only track the90101:00:28,710 --> 01:00:32,340remote item, it won't track. Youknow, the rest of your listening90201:00:32,340 --> 01:00:34,620habits. Of course, we could dothat. And there's lots of other90301:00:34,620 --> 01:00:40,260things we could do. But all I'mtrying to say here is we have a90401:00:40,260 --> 01:00:45,690universe of apps that returnplayer information that people90501:00:45,690 --> 01:00:52,140are already doing. Let's make itofficial, add the Add tag. So90601:00:52,170 --> 01:00:55,080would surface it. Yeah, I'lllisten to your ad. If if it's90701:00:55,110 --> 01:00:58,680off, no insertion, how aboutthat I'm just it's a crazy90801:00:58,680 --> 01:01:01,710thought it was off no insertionthat people are doing value for90901:01:01,710 --> 01:01:05,820value. If it's on, you get aninsertion, a payment fires off,91001:01:06,210 --> 01:01:12,390you'll probably have maybe ifwe're really lucky, maybe 1% of91101:01:12,390 --> 01:01:16,200all listens across the board.But just like Todd has some91201:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,480secret sauce, you could add thisin. I mean, I think that would91301:01:21,480 --> 01:01:26,610make the I want to destroy allother distribution systems and91401:01:26,610 --> 01:01:30,960networks, okay, I want todestroy them. The way we destroy91501:01:30,960 --> 01:01:35,220them is by making veryaccountable advertising work.91601:01:36,270 --> 01:01:40,650And it doesn't take away fromvalue for value. But in fact, it91701:01:40,680 --> 01:01:46,410onboards people to value forvalue gives podcasters an extra91801:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,190revenue stream, if they don'thave any ads or don't want ads,91901:01:50,490 --> 01:01:54,000it can fund wallets, it can do alot of things. I have no idea92001:01:54,000 --> 01:01:56,940how to take this further otherthan it would probably be a92101:01:56,940 --> 01:02:01,050wallet provider who would haveto create this system. But92201:02:01,050 --> 01:02:06,240everybody can when everybody'sincentivized, especially if the92301:02:06,240 --> 01:02:08,850podcaster communicates to theiraudience.92401:02:15,389 --> 01:02:22,289Dave Jones: of okay, I thought Imean, I guess the first thing92501:02:22,289 --> 01:02:29,339that pops out is I say that Ilistened to your ad, which sends92601:02:29,339 --> 01:02:33,059a set to you and I get five setsback that. I mean, that's just92701:02:33,539 --> 01:02:36,659how you can avoid the the amountof the massive click for all to92801:02:36,659 --> 01:02:37,469happens with that.92901:02:38,189 --> 01:02:40,679Adam Curry: I mean, there's allkinds of things that I'm you93001:02:40,679 --> 01:02:43,439know what I bet you Oscar hasalready figured out a lot of the93101:02:43,439 --> 01:02:46,199click fraud stuff, of course,but we have click fraud93201:02:46,199 --> 01:02:50,459everywhere. We already have it.So that will that could be we93301:02:50,460 --> 01:02:58,770Dave Jones: don't but we don'thave click fraud. Well, this,93401:02:58,860 --> 01:03:02,970this is a direct Well, if you'rean advertiser, and you have93501:03:02,970 --> 01:03:09,270downloads, you can say. You cansay x percentage of these93601:03:09,270 --> 01:03:11,700downloads are fake. I'm notpaying for this, which93701:03:11,700 --> 01:03:13,740Adam Curry: is this, which isthe stuff that Todd already93801:03:13,740 --> 01:03:16,590does. He already knows this.Right.93901:03:16,620 --> 01:03:19,380Dave Jones: But then, but ifyou're but if it's a direct94001:03:19,380 --> 01:03:22,050transaction, then you can't94101:03:22,290 --> 01:03:25,860Adam Curry: get that back. Okay.Well, let's take let's take that94201:03:25,860 --> 01:03:31,710part out. Okay, whatever theincentive is, we have a system94301:03:31,710 --> 01:03:36,240that nobody has, we have aminute by minute payment system94401:03:36,960 --> 01:03:41,700that can send this informationcompletely anonymous. You know,94501:03:41,730 --> 01:03:45,870don't send something back rightaway, you know, stored up94601:03:45,870 --> 01:03:49,020whatever. Yeah, I mean, there'sa million ways to do the incent94701:03:49,050 --> 01:03:52,380incentivized maybe you don'thave to do that. Click this on94801:03:52,980 --> 01:03:56,010me oh, by the way, you know, youget it you get a free podcast94901:03:56,010 --> 01:03:58,020wallet, which you can dosomething with I mean, there's,95001:03:58,230 --> 01:04:01,410there's a lot of different with,maybe I should just retract the95101:04:01,410 --> 01:04:09,720incentive. Right now. There are15 apps 15, maybe 15 apps that95201:04:09,720 --> 01:04:15,480have play statistics by minutethat no one is even thinking95301:04:15,480 --> 01:04:22,470about as being useful foradvertising. Statistical uses.95401:04:24,270 --> 01:04:27,750Dave Jones: Okay, so the settingaside the incentive thing for a95501:04:27,750 --> 01:04:32,880second the other thing that'sthat popped out was so I'm full95601:04:32,910 --> 01:04:36,000I'm putting on my full cynic hathere. You're trying to play you95701:04:36,000 --> 01:04:38,340Adam Curry: have to you have toand95801:04:39,840 --> 01:04:43,230Dave Jones: in the cynic in mesays, do the advertisers95901:04:43,230 --> 01:04:46,470themselves even want accuratenumbers? Ah, well,96001:04:47,760 --> 01:04:51,030Adam Curry: this popped up forme too. Nobody may actually want96101:04:51,030 --> 01:04:53,670to have these numbers whichwould be which would be handy96201:04:53,670 --> 01:04:58,050too, because then everythingfalls apart. And the only real96301:04:58,050 --> 01:05:00,960way to measure stuff is directresponse. was like cold bond96401:05:00,960 --> 01:05:05,220genome. I mean, that's basicallythe ultimate. But right now,96501:05:05,250 --> 01:05:09,210Dave Jones: if you're an adbuyer for Nike, and you buy96601:05:09,810 --> 01:05:15,510that, and you say, Okay, I'mgoing to spend $700,000, across96701:05:15,510 --> 01:05:22,710these audio, mediums, and I'mgoing to get to 250,002, that is96801:05:22,710 --> 01:05:26,670going to be in the pot inpodcasts. And look at all these96901:05:26,670 --> 01:05:33,150downloads, we got it for250,000, or for $200,000, we97001:05:33,150 --> 01:05:37,170got, you know, we get 2 milliondownloads, like if, if that97101:05:37,170 --> 01:05:43,650actually translates into300,000, then you as the ad97201:05:43,650 --> 01:05:46,740buyer may not want your boss tosee the accurate number, you may97301:05:46,740 --> 01:05:49,830want to, you may want theinflated number. Bottom97401:05:49,829 --> 01:05:52,319Adam Curry: line, you'reabsolutely right, people may not97501:05:52,319 --> 01:05:56,969want to actually know. But whatI find interesting, and maybe97601:05:56,969 --> 01:06:01,559this is something for Spurlockto do, what I find interesting97701:06:01,739 --> 01:06:06,569is that I don't need an agencyor anybody else or a podcast97801:06:06,569 --> 01:06:10,439host to tell me the listeningbehavior of my audience, I can97901:06:10,439 --> 01:06:14,609look at it myself. The I cantalk directly to an agency or an98001:06:14,609 --> 01:06:19,229ad buyer and say, well, of mydownloads on Obama unique98101:06:19,259 --> 01:06:24,839audience on op three, which isokay, no agenda 900,000 unique98201:06:24,839 --> 01:06:27,299per month, whatever it means, Idon't know what it means. But98301:06:27,299 --> 01:06:32,579it's a number. And I can say ofthat audience, I have 3%, it may98401:06:32,579 --> 01:06:40,439be higher. I have 3% that streamme SATs every single minute. So98501:06:40,439 --> 01:06:44,729I can say I have a reasonableexpectation that this is the98601:06:44,729 --> 01:06:51,269behavior of the other 97%. Thehigher that number, the better98701:06:51,269 --> 01:06:56,219it is, of course. I mean, thisis very powerful stuff that no98801:06:56,219 --> 01:06:59,129one's thinking of. And they'reall running around doing98901:06:59,219 --> 01:07:03,539formulas and beating each otherover the head and back rooms at99001:07:03,749 --> 01:07:07,319at NAB to come up with someformula that ultimately only99101:07:07,319 --> 01:07:10,409measures one minute of downloadevery two hours.99201:07:11,699 --> 01:07:15,869Dave Jones: Yeah. Does it feellike nuts? I think you're on to99301:07:15,869 --> 01:07:21,539Sunday. I mean, it may there'ssomething there. It's, there's a99401:07:21,539 --> 01:07:25,529way to there's get, you know,there's a way to harness this99501:07:25,529 --> 01:07:29,909is. Okay, so back to basics fora second. I mean, what you're99601:07:29,909 --> 01:07:37,889talking about is, is lightningas a as a perfectly anonymized99701:07:37,919 --> 01:07:44,129way to see what's happening withyour show? Yes. And99801:07:44,160 --> 01:07:46,380Adam Curry: listening minutes.Let's put it that way how far99901:07:46,380 --> 01:07:49,560someone listens in. Okay. Butlet's forget everything I said100001:07:49,560 --> 01:07:52,740before, was probably a better isprobably a bad way to start it100101:07:52,740 --> 01:08:00,480off. How about this? If I send asplit to OP three? I want open100201:08:00,480 --> 01:08:05,280by the way. The apps not doinganything creepy? No, what no app100301:08:05,280 --> 01:08:10,440wants to do creepy tracking? No,no one wants to be creepy. But100401:08:10,620 --> 01:08:13,440But I have my numbers andwhether I'm looking at download100501:08:13,440 --> 01:08:16,560statistics. And oh, I have fivepeople in Lithuania. I've100601:08:16,560 --> 01:08:20,190technically am creepily tryingto figure out where people are100701:08:20,190 --> 01:08:23,160coming from and how manydownloads I'm getting, etc. So100801:08:23,160 --> 01:08:26,850it's not like this is out of theordinary. Now I have one extra100901:08:26,850 --> 01:08:31,740piece of data. If I were to giveop three a split, I would I101001:08:31,740 --> 01:08:35,970would personally love to havethat tape pulled up into the101101:08:35,970 --> 01:08:40,980stats. So I can get based uponpure averages. I mean, it's it's101201:08:40,980 --> 01:08:45,270just it's numbers. It's averagesof how many? What percentage of101301:08:45,270 --> 01:08:50,760that 900,000 On no agenda isstreaming SATs per minute. You101401:08:50,760 --> 01:08:54,870know, wrap that up and tell meWell, it seems like you probably101501:08:54,870 --> 01:08:59,610have this many minutes listen toof each podcast. And this is101601:08:59,610 --> 01:09:03,120your average drop off. Andhere's kind of what it is after101701:09:03,240 --> 01:09:06,960five minutes, 10 minutes, 30minutes, an hour, etc. This is101801:09:06,960 --> 01:09:12,570valuable data. All I'm saying isthat if you're doing value for101901:09:12,570 --> 01:09:17,400value, do value for value. Butif you want to use the same102001:09:17,400 --> 01:09:22,140mechanism to get player stats,there's ways that that can be102101:09:22,140 --> 01:09:25,170packaged and manage andincentivize for everybody. Does102201:09:25,170 --> 01:09:29,400that make sense? Yeah, becauseit's, it's like the red tag102301:09:29,550 --> 01:09:32,460that, you know, that failed,like, oh, that players will send102401:09:32,460 --> 01:09:35,700back this little tag and everyNo, no one did that. But we have102501:09:35,700 --> 01:09:41,16015 apps, you know, andpodcasters Hey, please use these102601:09:41,160 --> 01:09:44,610apps. You helped me with myadvertisers this there's so many102701:09:44,610 --> 01:09:49,170things that podcasters aren'tdoing to promote their own102801:09:49,170 --> 01:09:53,820welfare. Right. This is a thisis an it could be done with as I102901:09:53,820 --> 01:09:56,460said with just a value timesplit, you know, that fires it103001:09:56,460 --> 01:10:00,000off only when you listen to thead. All these things can be103101:10:00,000 --> 01:10:04,740Done. Give me a hey, you know, Imean, all I'm seeing is the103201:10:04,740 --> 01:10:08,040exact thing that Todd and Robare bitching about that no one103301:10:08,040 --> 01:10:13,710has we have across 15 apps. Andactually, the index has a whole103401:10:13,710 --> 01:10:18,180range, that we're not going touse that. But but that's the103501:10:18,180 --> 01:10:21,570idea you could have, you couldhave a separate entity that is103601:10:21,570 --> 01:10:26,010the nonprofit, these thepodcasts, that nonprofit, who103701:10:26,010 --> 01:10:29,880gets a 1% of everything, anddoes compile that I mean, which103801:10:29,880 --> 01:10:32,340would be opt in is there's somany things that can be done.103901:10:32,550 --> 01:10:38,490The point is, the information isthere, the mechanism is there.104001:10:40,110 --> 01:10:43,200So whereas if you have a podcastwhere you don't feel like doing104101:10:43,200 --> 01:10:48,480value for value, you can use thesame mechanism. Without anyone104201:10:48,480 --> 01:10:50,880taking a penny out of theirpocket, you can use the104301:10:50,880 --> 01:10:54,000mechanism to get the statisticsthat you want.104401:10:55,800 --> 01:11:01,170Dave Jones: Again, get I guess Ijust see this as the as104501:11:01,230 --> 01:11:06,840envisioned at the moment in myhead. This seems very binary.104601:11:07,890 --> 01:11:15,420Like, like it's is either an allor nothing thing. You go in,104701:11:15,450 --> 01:11:19,920you're either you're eithervalue for value at that point,104801:11:19,920 --> 01:11:23,850and then there's no way to getsomebody to listen to the ads104901:11:23,850 --> 01:11:26,160without incentivizing. Oh, soyou do you105001:11:26,160 --> 01:11:28,590Adam Curry: listen to the Linuxunplugged? Do you listen to105101:11:28,590 --> 01:11:31,230Jupiter broadcasting? Do youscreen them set?105201:11:31,800 --> 01:11:32,130Unknown: Yes.105301:11:32,160 --> 01:11:35,790Adam Curry: Do they havemarketing? Yes. So that's not105401:11:35,820 --> 01:11:36,870true what you just said.105501:11:37,410 --> 01:11:44,280Dave Jones: But that is that isa function of so that is that's105601:11:44,370 --> 01:11:49,440if you turn on was like, Well,let me clarify the, you105701:11:49,440 --> 01:11:52,980mentioned sort of like enablingthis thing as a feature.105801:11:53,310 --> 01:11:55,920Adam Curry: Just one way that asI said, this is just one way of105901:11:55,920 --> 01:12:00,840doing this. I mean, right now,if I were Jupiter broadcasting,106001:12:00,870 --> 01:12:04,530I would go to Linode. And Iwould say, Hey, here's the106101:12:04,530 --> 01:12:08,880percentage of people who arestreaming SATs, and who were106201:12:08,910 --> 01:12:11,370doing that while listening toyour ad. And I would say it's,106301:12:11,370 --> 01:12:14,970uh, you know, 0.1% of ouraudience, but this gives you an106401:12:14,970 --> 01:12:20,370idea. This, you can extrapolatethat. And by the way, you don't106501:12:20,370 --> 01:12:22,740mind I know you don't becauseyou love those guys.106601:12:23,370 --> 01:12:26,370Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. That's whyListen, yeah. To the ads and106701:12:26,370 --> 01:12:28,650stream sets through the air.Exactly,106801:12:28,650 --> 01:12:31,410Adam Curry: exactly. This is mypoint. It's the relationship106901:12:31,410 --> 01:12:35,940between the podcaster. And theaudience that makes it work. Not107001:12:35,940 --> 01:12:38,820that not everything else sucks.So107101:12:38,820 --> 01:12:42,030Dave Jones: you're saying if thepodcaster explains this, and107201:12:42,030 --> 01:12:48,510says, Look, if you're using avalue for value app, here, the107301:12:48,540 --> 01:12:53,730the advertisers can tell if yourListen, which helps us. Of107401:12:53,730 --> 01:12:58,440course, okay, that's, of course,this is so much layout, I107501:12:58,440 --> 01:13:00,510appreciate that angle on it,because107601:13:01,680 --> 01:13:04,020Adam Curry: it's still value forvalue, the hope there's no way107701:13:04,200 --> 01:13:06,420our audience is not big enough,you're not boosting enough for107801:13:06,420 --> 01:13:09,930me to do this full time. We haveLinode as a sponsor, we'd love107901:13:09,930 --> 01:13:13,290to tell them, you know thatpeople are listening. If you108001:13:13,290 --> 01:13:17,040don't, if you don't boost us10,000 SATs turn on five sets of108101:13:17,040 --> 01:13:19,830minutes, so we can track it andtell them and show them what108201:13:19,830 --> 01:13:22,800they're getting for their money.Its value for value.108301:13:23,940 --> 01:13:27,120Dave Jones: Yeah. appreciate thefact that that's like a108401:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,060conversation in a relationshipbetween the podcaster and the108501:13:30,060 --> 01:13:33,510audience. That's where I startedthis sort of technological108601:13:34,080 --> 01:13:38,880technical solution that trust,like, steal it to like, work its108701:13:38,880 --> 01:13:41,250way around that relationship.That's108801:13:41,250 --> 01:13:43,830Adam Curry: why That's why Istarted I said, What's ignored108901:13:43,830 --> 01:13:46,590in the whole podcastingindustrial complex? is the109001:13:46,590 --> 01:13:49,830relationship between thepodcaster and the audience. And109101:13:49,830 --> 01:13:53,820the podcasters. They forget thattoo. And then it just becomes109201:13:53,820 --> 01:13:57,300magic did yeah. Well, then itbut then it becomes when we just109301:13:57,300 --> 01:14:00,030shove this crap in your face,I'm sorry. It's the only way we109401:14:00,030 --> 01:14:03,000can do it. Where you canactually turn it into an109501:14:03,000 --> 01:14:08,130extremely positive. And then asit goes along, I think that the109601:14:08,160 --> 01:14:11,130the Linux unplugged guys, theycould say, you know, if you109701:14:11,130 --> 01:14:15,240don't want to hear the ad, andyou want to boost us, or you109801:14:15,240 --> 01:14:18,630want to stream a higher amountof stat sets instead, here's a109901:14:18,630 --> 01:14:22,050toggle, and you want here the adand you I mean, you can do it110001:14:22,050 --> 01:14:26,670that way. But it's always therelationship between the, the,110101:14:26,880 --> 01:14:31,920I'm going to use the word I hatea creator, and the audience that110201:14:31,920 --> 01:14:36,600is forgotten. That's what'sforgotten. And that's, that's110301:14:36,600 --> 01:14:41,880where they went wrong. Andagain, I want nothing more if I110401:14:41,880 --> 01:14:44,100if you really woke me up in themiddle, if so, would you really110501:14:44,100 --> 01:14:50,670want I would want the podcastecosystem to crush every other110601:14:50,670 --> 01:14:55,110distribution mechanism that isout there. Tall networks, every110701:14:55,110 --> 01:14:59,730single one of them, crush themmake them irrelevant because110801:14:59,730 --> 01:15:01,380they are Our system is better.110901:15:03,629 --> 01:15:09,899Dave Jones: I agree. Yeah. And Ithink I think that is, you know,111001:15:09,929 --> 01:15:12,329everybody's doing theirprediction shows and stuff like111101:15:12,329 --> 01:15:19,229that this week, or in last week.And this. There, there's this111201:15:19,229 --> 01:15:24,719weird dichotomy between somepeople are saying, well, you111301:15:24,719 --> 01:15:27,089know, think 2024 is not going toget a whole lot better than111401:15:27,089 --> 01:15:31,5592023. And then people on the adside are like, well, you know,111501:15:31,559 --> 01:15:38,399everything's going up. And yeah,I think in order to get sort of111601:15:38,399 --> 01:15:42,899your put your ear to the to thetrain track, and hear what's111701:15:43,139 --> 01:15:48,689coming down the road. So Ibrought clips,111801:15:49,680 --> 01:15:51,660Adam Curry: can I add one thingbefore you go to the clips?111901:15:52,170 --> 01:15:55,740Yeah, I would love Linuxunplugged, if they put a value112001:15:55,740 --> 01:16:00,120time split into their Linoderead, I will boost your112101:16:00,120 --> 01:16:03,930advertiser and tell them I likedtheir product. Or if I don't112201:16:03,930 --> 01:16:08,550like their product, I will boostand said, I heard this ad. I'm112301:16:08,550 --> 01:16:11,430interested, or I liked it, or Iliked the way it was done. Or I112401:16:11,430 --> 01:16:14,790like your product. I'd like yourservice. I'm already I'm already112501:16:14,820 --> 01:16:19,170a user or man, you know,whatever it is, I will give112601:16:19,170 --> 01:16:20,820feedback to your advertiser.112701:16:22,290 --> 01:16:25,290Dave Jones: One thing we haven'tseen on that front is, like you112801:16:25,290 --> 01:16:28,020said, boosting directly to theadvertiser basically a value112901:16:28,260 --> 01:16:29,760split for the ad. Yes,113001:16:29,790 --> 01:16:34,890Adam Curry: yes. Exactly. Put itto a devalue time split in, give113101:16:34,890 --> 01:16:38,550the advertiser A wallet, tellyou tell your audience what113201:16:38,550 --> 01:16:41,160you're doing. Hey, if you ifyou're a podcast, who put it113301:16:41,160 --> 01:16:45,150right now? boost the ad, sendthem a message can be one113401:16:45,150 --> 01:16:47,610Satoshi I don't care. Send thema message.113501:16:47,910 --> 01:16:49,980Dave Jones: That would beinteresting. If you said, if you113601:16:49,980 --> 01:16:56,040say okay, I'm going to I'm goingto prove to you my numbers. In113701:16:56,040 --> 01:16:59,520this way, I'm going to set up acontext account for you113801:16:59,550 --> 01:17:03,480beautiful, exactly, we're gonnasee this. Yeah. And113901:17:03,480 --> 01:17:05,250Adam Curry: you know whatadvertising equals negative114001:17:05,250 --> 01:17:08,490feedback. They, they, theyappreciate that, too. That's114101:17:08,490 --> 01:17:12,120free. And you're just saveyourself $50,000 on a marketing114201:17:12,120 --> 01:17:15,030firm that does that doespolling. And114301:17:15,030 --> 01:17:19,770Dave Jones: at the end of the,at the end of the campaign, then114401:17:19,800 --> 01:17:25,200you just pay you just if youjust pay me back? The the114501:17:25,200 --> 01:17:29,790amount, like just add that backin as a bonus. What like the114601:17:29,790 --> 01:17:32,910agreed amount, and then you addin whatever, whatever sets you114701:17:32,910 --> 01:17:35,850receive, you give me a cut ofthat back? What and that's114801:17:35,880 --> 01:17:36,600whatever it114901:17:36,600 --> 01:17:38,520Adam Curry: is, you send it backto the people who sent you the115001:17:38,520 --> 01:17:39,180message,115101:17:39,540 --> 01:17:41,760Dave Jones: we split it orwhatever. There's a million ways115201:17:41,760 --> 01:17:43,380to do it. Yeah. That's115301:17:43,380 --> 01:17:46,530Adam Curry: all I wanted topresent is that I am not I115401:17:46,530 --> 01:17:51,510believe that advertising is, iscensorship, because you can't115501:17:51,900 --> 01:17:56,640talk about a competing productthat That by itself is going to115601:17:56,640 --> 01:18:01,800be censorship. I believe it'sdangerous, in many cases,115701:18:01,830 --> 01:18:06,450because you, you can getdemonetized. But I want to be115801:18:06,450 --> 01:18:10,290clear, I'm not anti marketing,the world exists on marketing.115901:18:10,290 --> 01:18:14,100We can't live without productbeing marketed to us. But we116001:18:14,100 --> 01:18:19,560can, this is what we talkedabout in 1989, we are saying oh,116101:18:19,590 --> 01:18:23,340it's going to change is going tochange, or it'll be updated and116201:18:23,340 --> 01:18:28,020you'll pay me for my time. Noone's done it. We have it we116301:18:28,020 --> 01:18:31,740have all the pieces in place todo that. And I just wanted to116401:18:31,740 --> 01:18:36,180put that out there that peoplecan think of it as a possible116501:18:36,180 --> 01:18:39,810way and the Jupiter broadcastingguys, I would love to see them116601:18:39,810 --> 01:18:43,170experiment with this. The Ithink their audience is perfect116701:18:43,170 --> 01:18:47,610for it. I'll participate you'llparticipate. I streamed SATs I116801:18:47,610 --> 01:18:51,180boost them. I listened to theLinode it's interesting to me.116901:18:51,720 --> 01:18:54,450It's something I want to hear ifI didn't want to hear it. I'd117001:18:54,450 --> 01:18:57,960like to I'd like to say hey, Ihate this ad. Can I turn it off?117101:18:58,380 --> 01:19:02,160Whatever. Now makes it a levelyou can turn it off if you boost117201:19:02,160 --> 01:19:05,430the 1000s that there's all kindsof it's programmable money117301:19:05,430 --> 01:19:09,300people think a little bitfurther than what it is.117401:19:10,530 --> 01:19:12,840Dave Jones: Yeah, I think Ithink we haven't seen the sort117501:19:12,840 --> 01:19:18,000of experimentation now with thisstuff where you could sit down117601:19:18,000 --> 01:19:21,750for an afternoon and think offour or five different ways you117701:19:21,750 --> 01:19:25,620could do some crazy stuff withwith this when it when it comes117801:19:25,620 --> 01:19:30,210to like splits that activatesservices. Like with friends I117901:19:30,210 --> 01:19:35,730mean, just you get spit ball orsomething like this like you you118001:19:35,730 --> 01:19:42,120donate you hit a certainthreshold of you hit a certain118101:19:43,050 --> 01:19:46,200you know you hit a certainthreshold of ads and screaming118201:19:46,200 --> 01:19:50,310stats. I love this thinking forlast episode that means next118301:19:50,310 --> 01:19:53,430episode you don't get you don'thear any ads. Yeah, they just118401:19:53,460 --> 01:19:56,280stuff like, you know, like allkinds of crazy stuff that you118501:19:56,280 --> 01:20:00,390could do. Yeah, I think we havea really we Here's haven't118601:20:00,390 --> 01:20:04,200really seen anybody go, go, gokind of nutty, and start doing118701:20:04,200 --> 01:20:05,820that stuff. And118801:20:06,270 --> 01:20:08,820Adam Curry: just to finish, Ireally feel there's something118901:20:08,820 --> 01:20:11,940here this hybrid, it's notcreepy, because we're already119001:20:11,940 --> 01:20:15,330doing it. It's not creepy,because I'm already using it.119101:20:15,780 --> 01:20:20,310It's not creepy, because I can'tattribute you as a person to the119201:20:20,310 --> 01:20:23,940contacts graph that I'm viewing.I mean, if I go into the data119301:20:23,940 --> 01:20:27,840individually, I guess I could,and you know, I can know, an119401:20:27,840 --> 01:20:30,690alias. But that's really all Iknow. I can't necessarily yeah,119501:20:30,690 --> 01:20:33,360Dave Jones: that's, that's selfthat's opt in, though, I mean,119601:20:33,360 --> 01:20:37,080because you've completely youhave to get to it. I mean, if I119701:20:37,080 --> 01:20:43,140get if I just say that, if I putin my, in my user name, and the119801:20:43,140 --> 01:20:49,350T O V. Anonymous, is you're notgetting any information about me119901:20:49,380 --> 01:20:55,530at all. There's nothing youcan't, you can't extract120001:20:55,530 --> 01:20:59,070anything out of that paymentthat that identifies me, you120101:20:59,070 --> 01:21:04,260just can't know. So there's myif I choose to put Dave Jones in120201:21:04,260 --> 01:21:08,340the username field of the TLVI'm choosing to let you know120301:21:08,340 --> 01:21:12,870that that's me. That's not youcan't get it any other way120401:21:12,870 --> 01:21:16,740without me allowing it tohappen. And so in like the and120501:21:16,740 --> 01:21:20,730then and then that's all youget. So if some if four other120601:21:20,730 --> 01:21:22,890people also say their name isDave Jones,120701:21:23,970 --> 01:21:25,500Adam Curry: then you have forDave Jones.120801:21:26,760 --> 01:21:28,770Dave Jones: Name I can't tellwhich one's me and which one's120901:21:28,800 --> 01:21:32,010somebody else. It's just it isperfectly anonymous121001:21:32,040 --> 01:21:37,140Adam Curry: now and I believemuch more in host read ads than121101:21:37,140 --> 01:21:42,180anything else. Because it's likebridesmaid magazine. I don't121201:21:42,180 --> 01:21:46,020think you should be creating apodcast just to advertise bridal121301:21:46,560 --> 01:21:56,010services and products. Button.Linux unplugged is makes so much121401:21:56,010 --> 01:21:59,940sense for I'm interested in theproducts they that advertised121501:21:59,940 --> 01:22:03,450there. And the either it's acanned or whatever, but it's not121601:22:03,450 --> 01:22:07,470it's not an inserted ad thatgoes you know, Toyota. I'm not121701:22:07,470 --> 01:22:10,440interested, that's not going tointerest me. And I can't help121801:22:10,440 --> 01:22:13,830that. I can't even think thatfar ahead. Let's put it that121901:22:13,830 --> 01:22:19,410way. But to hear peoplestruggling with something that122001:22:19,410 --> 01:22:23,460already exists, I want to bridgeI want to help bridge that gap.122101:22:23,640 --> 01:22:29,700Because it's there. I am antitracking, I am pro privacy. Anti122201:22:29,700 --> 01:22:36,270creepy. But if we just rememberthat the podcasts are has an122301:22:36,300 --> 01:22:41,610intimate relationship with theaudience. You can figure out per122401:22:41,610 --> 01:22:47,340audience what is possible. Youjust can. It's not a problem.122501:22:48,060 --> 01:22:51,780But that is what is overlooked.And it's and it's overlooked in122601:22:52,440 --> 01:22:57,210reports and graphs and chartsand Rancors and leaderboards.122701:22:57,210 --> 01:23:02,910It's all insulting because youyou bring people and podcasters122801:23:02,910 --> 01:23:08,130down to a frickin percentage.Whereas here is something that122901:23:08,130 --> 01:23:12,690is human ebb you can work withboth parties to make something123001:23:12,900 --> 01:23:15,750do I expect the podcastindustrial complex to take this123101:23:15,750 --> 01:23:19,140and run with it? No. But atleast I said as possible. And123201:23:19,140 --> 01:23:20,490now let's go back to value forvalue.123301:23:21,330 --> 01:23:26,700Dave Jones: But the reason I thereason I headed it I have veered123401:23:26,700 --> 01:23:31,440into clips. Because I think thisNo no. Because this this is123501:23:31,440 --> 01:23:37,020actually pretty. It's actuallypretty apropos mainly so I was123601:23:37,020 --> 01:23:42,120listening to this is wrongroundabout way of the way of how123701:23:42,120 --> 01:23:46,620I got to this podcast. Thisthere's this you know, I told123801:23:46,620 --> 01:23:51,570you I've I've gone down theGilmore Girls train. Now and now123901:23:51,570 --> 01:23:55,740I'm listening to the GilmoreGirls podcast. But but it's this124001:23:55,800 --> 01:24:01,290specific one by by the guy thatplayed Luke on the show. And I124101:24:01,290 --> 01:24:05,490don't remember how I think Ithink I found when I was124201:24:05,490 --> 01:24:10,620originally searching for it, uh,found a another one called124301:24:10,620 --> 01:24:18,150Gilmore Guys. Hey, no witch. Andso this is like, this was this124401:24:18,150 --> 01:24:20,760was by nobody related to theshow. I mean, this is just like124501:24:20,760 --> 01:24:23,880two days. Scott Patterson you'retalking about? Yes, Scott124601:24:23,880 --> 01:24:26,340Patterson does the I am all inpodcast, which is the one I124701:24:26,340 --> 01:24:31,110subscribe to. But this othershow was by people who are not124801:24:31,260 --> 01:24:34,650who were not actors on the show.Just it's like Egina just fans.124901:24:36,480 --> 01:24:40,890And I remember seeing that show.So I went back125001:24:43,170 --> 01:24:47,790Adam Curry: I been Pfeiffer Ibinge Gilmore Girls are in125101:24:47,790 --> 01:24:51,240COVID. So it's you know what areal man admits that. He watched125201:24:51,240 --> 01:24:52,140Gilmore Girls.125301:24:53,850 --> 01:24:59,040Dave Jones: I have no shame.None. There's no shame. But so125401:24:59,820 --> 01:25:04,470it's The this I ended uplistening to this other podcast,125501:25:04,950 --> 01:25:09,390because now I'm just you know,I'm just curious at what, three125601:25:09,390 --> 01:25:12,480minutes in and I'm out. I'm likethat cannot tolerate this at125701:25:12,480 --> 01:25:17,430all. It's so it's just not myfor No, I'm not going to125801:25:17,430 --> 01:25:21,870criticize them but it is justabsolutely not my thing. I can't125901:25:21,900 --> 01:25:27,300I can't handle it. So I was outon that but somehow I ended up126001:25:27,840 --> 01:25:31,830through the magic of of theindex or something with this126101:25:31,860 --> 01:25:35,910other show by one of the hostsof that show. Is this this is a126201:25:35,910 --> 01:25:43,350show called good Christian fun.Yeah. Funny name for show. So126301:25:43,350 --> 01:25:46,680I'm like, Oh, I gotta I gotta itwas supposed to be like a, a126401:25:46,680 --> 01:25:50,220show about Christian popculture. And I'm like, oh,126501:25:50,220 --> 01:25:53,460that's that sounds likeentertaining. So listen to it.126601:25:53,940 --> 01:25:59,790And I was actually sort of themy entry point to this show was126701:26:00,360 --> 01:26:04,110an episode. This was the mostrecent episode, which ended up126801:26:04,110 --> 01:26:10,290being a bad entry point for me.Because they're, they start126901:26:10,290 --> 01:26:13,980talking about at the verybeginning, how their, their127001:26:13,980 --> 01:26:17,850podcast network called ahead. GMis the name of this podcast127101:26:17,850 --> 01:26:23,670network. Their Podcast Networkis now trying a new strategy.127201:26:25,020 --> 01:26:29,940Going going forward on how tofigure out new shows.127301:26:31,740 --> 01:26:34,380Adam Curry: And what do you meanfigure out new shows? What do127401:26:34,380 --> 01:26:37,050you mean, what new shows toproduce? Yeah,127501:26:37,380 --> 01:26:40,050Dave Jones: yeah. So they likeso what do we you know, this is127601:26:40,050 --> 01:26:44,550the new this is the new world welive in where? Where podcasting127701:26:44,580 --> 01:26:48,810isn't, is not a is not theFairhead you know, fair haired127801:26:48,930 --> 01:26:51,840Adam Curry: child knows theugly, ugly. redheaded stepchild127901:26:51,840 --> 01:26:54,180was what it is. All right.Sorry. redheads.128001:26:55,290 --> 01:27:00,240Dave Jones: Is the soullessredheads. Yes. And this so they128101:27:00,270 --> 01:27:03,570so they have a new strategy,which he will describe.128201:27:04,650 --> 01:27:08,490Unknown: This week, we have aspecial treat for our listeners.128301:27:08,520 --> 01:27:13,320Oh, right. Yes, this this iskind of crazy. But it's huge.128401:27:13,470 --> 01:27:18,240It's an honor. And the head gamenetwork is a big family. In128501:27:18,240 --> 01:27:21,750light of that they've launchedthis new pilot program that128601:27:21,750 --> 01:27:25,530they're they're trying out. Andit's really weird how they're128701:27:25,530 --> 01:27:29,400rolling it out and executing it.But when we heard the talent128801:27:29,400 --> 01:27:33,630involved, we thought, yeah,let's participate. Yeah, let's128901:27:33,630 --> 01:27:36,570give this agreement I had nochoice. So what they're doing129001:27:36,570 --> 01:27:39,720now is they're they'redeveloping, you know, about a129101:27:39,720 --> 01:27:43,620dozen or so pilots. And whatthey're doing is instead of129201:27:43,620 --> 01:27:47,430creating a feed for the show'sthemselves, they're gonna put129301:27:47,430 --> 01:27:50,970them on the feeds of all theother podcasts on had gone, you129401:27:50,970 --> 01:27:54,870know, when it makes sense. Andit may it certainly made sense.129501:27:54,900 --> 01:28:00,390In this case, they're actuallydeveloping a podcast with two129601:28:00,390 --> 01:28:04,080people very close to our heart,Michael W. Smith and Ami MF129701:28:04,080 --> 01:28:10,380grant. They're finally doingtheir to friends podcast. So129801:28:10,620 --> 01:28:14,010what they want to do had gum youknow, times being what they are129901:28:14,010 --> 01:28:16,410in the pockets industry. Theydon't want to commit to the130001:28:16,410 --> 01:28:22,290whole 52 episode order for ayear. So what they're gonna do130101:28:22,290 --> 01:28:25,230is they're gonna put out thepilot episode of all these new130201:28:25,230 --> 01:28:25,680shows.130301:28:26,670 --> 01:28:28,800Adam Curry: I'm not sure Iunderstood exactly what they're130401:28:28,800 --> 01:28:29,310doing.130501:28:30,780 --> 01:28:34,200Dave Jones: Okay, so that'syeah, it's a little hard to130601:28:34,200 --> 01:28:37,260follow but what this whatthey're doing his feed drops,130701:28:37,290 --> 01:28:39,510Adam Curry: right. So they'reputting the episode in every130801:28:39,510 --> 01:28:42,180single feed on their network. So130901:28:42,210 --> 01:28:44,610Dave Jones: yes, selective feed,so they're gonna do he was131001:28:44,610 --> 01:28:48,780saying he was saying that heclarifies it and a little,131101:28:49,050 --> 01:28:52,410clarifies a little bit more inin the next clip, but what131201:28:52,410 --> 01:28:56,550they're essentially doing isthey're, instead of doing any131301:28:56,550 --> 01:29:03,780commitments, they're going to dolike one pilot episode, and then131401:29:03,780 --> 01:29:08,790throw that into a whole bunch ofalready highly subscribed feeds131501:29:09,510 --> 01:29:14,490and see whether or not they getgood feedback. And if they do131601:29:14,520 --> 01:29:15,990then they might order more131701:29:17,280 --> 01:29:20,460Adam Curry: webisodes. Wow, thatsounds like a bad idea to me.131801:29:21,330 --> 01:29:21,570This131901:29:21,570 --> 01:29:24,090Dave Jones: sounds like aterrible idea. I mean, feed132001:29:24,090 --> 01:29:29,220drops are nothing new. But I cantell you they're almost132101:29:29,220 --> 01:29:30,660universally hated it132201:29:30,690 --> 01:29:33,090Adam Curry: From experience Ican tell you from way back132301:29:33,090 --> 01:29:36,540people don't like it. Like we'llget that out of my feed. I'll132401:29:36,540 --> 01:29:40,320subscribe to the feed myselfHey. And132501:29:40,650 --> 01:29:43,140Dave Jones: like this is aperfect example because I was132601:29:43,140 --> 01:29:47,790willing to give this show a shotI want I tuned in to hear this132701:29:47,820 --> 01:29:53,700specific show. And I did not getthis show because this show this132801:29:53,700 --> 01:29:57,600whole intro that I'm that I'mclipping here. This was all lead132901:29:57,600 --> 01:30:00,780into the feed drop that therewere about two played this other133001:30:00,780 --> 01:30:05,310episode. So I subscribed to ashow that I now did not get.133101:30:05,700 --> 01:30:10,950What I got was some new pilotepisode for a potentially new133201:30:11,160 --> 01:30:15,450show from with Michael W. Smithand Amy Grant. Amy Grant, a133301:30:15,450 --> 01:30:18,210singer Amy Grant singer andMichael W. Smith, a Christian133401:30:18,210 --> 01:30:22,950singer. Yeah. Oh, those two themtalking to each other. I'm like,133501:30:23,010 --> 01:30:26,220I'm already annoyed before Ieven hear you know what I mean?133601:30:26,250 --> 01:30:30,120Yeah, of course, it ended upbeing a decent show. I'm already133701:30:30,120 --> 01:30:34,140you're hitting me. I'm annoyedfrom the beginning. And so like133801:30:34,170 --> 01:30:39,300the net in the next clip, theytalk about this overall133901:30:39,300 --> 01:30:44,160strategy. And it's basicallyit's the same strategy as it was134001:30:44,160 --> 01:30:48,810the last five years. But ofcelebrities, but this time134101:30:48,810 --> 01:30:50,370without the commitment. Michael134201:30:50,370 --> 01:30:55,260Unknown: W. Smith and Amy Grantare doing one. You know, there's134301:30:55,260 --> 01:30:58,410other people doing podcastspilots that I'm forgetting right134401:30:58,410 --> 01:31:03,720now. I think I think there's,there's like scrubs rewatch134501:31:03,720 --> 01:31:07,800podcasts that they're doing, butit's just the Todd and he's134601:31:07,800 --> 01:31:11,130Sarah choc. Yeah. And it's kindof competing with fake doctors,134701:31:11,130 --> 01:31:15,510real friends. That's one ofthem. There's one Kim controls134801:31:15,510 --> 01:31:18,150doing where she just washes Sexin the City. And she talks about134901:31:18,150 --> 01:31:19,560how much she hates everything.135001:31:20,010 --> 01:31:21,180Okay, negative show.135101:31:21,210 --> 01:31:24,870Yeah. So it's a lot of celebritystuff that that's been cooked up135201:31:24,870 --> 01:31:25,500ahead and GM.135301:31:26,850 --> 01:31:30,720Adam Curry: Oh, man, this is aprime example of how you cannot135401:31:30,720 --> 01:31:33,330monetize the network. So135501:31:33,360 --> 01:31:40,260Dave Jones: this is, you know, Idon't, I'm not I'm not being135601:31:40,260 --> 01:31:46,020super negative on. As far aslike, I'm not saying this. I'm135701:31:46,020 --> 01:31:49,080not gonna criticize anybody onthis. But what I'm just it was135801:31:49,080 --> 01:31:54,150interesting from the standpointof this, it's sort of a135901:31:54,150 --> 01:31:58,290confirmation that there's reallynothing new here. Like, there's136001:31:59,250 --> 01:32:04,350the podcast industrial complex.So the you know, they're out of136101:32:04,350 --> 01:32:07,950ideas. They really are thererehashing. Now, now they're136201:32:07,950 --> 01:32:14,100rehashing other, this is a real,this is another podcast with136301:32:14,100 --> 01:32:17,670somebody rewatching, atelevision show and discussing136401:32:17,670 --> 01:32:20,790the episodes that's going headto head with an already popular136501:32:20,790 --> 01:32:24,090show of this doing the exactsame thing with the exact same136601:32:24,090 --> 01:32:31,680show. And they're so unsureabout the success of the shows136701:32:32,430 --> 01:32:36,600that they, they won't evencommit to more than one episode.136801:32:36,630 --> 01:32:38,940And they're going to feed dropit to get the numbers up. I136901:32:38,940 --> 01:32:44,610mean, like, Oh, my God, this isjust not. What bothers me here137001:32:44,610 --> 01:32:49,680is that this is not good. No,this is really not a good. This137101:32:49,680 --> 01:32:51,420is what I'm saying. If you putyour ear down to the train137201:32:51,420 --> 01:32:56,670tracks on this thing. I see hardtimes ahead. I mean, it can it137301:32:56,670 --> 01:33:00,510kind of in him, and then you soyou have a feed drop already.137401:33:01,320 --> 01:33:05,580Where this is, you're alreadyannoyed that you're not going to137501:33:05,580 --> 01:33:11,730hear the show you were expectingto hear. And then I detect in137601:33:11,730 --> 01:33:16,440this last clip, I detected thatthey're sort of embarrassed by137701:33:16,440 --> 01:33:19,260the quality of the episodethey're about, they're about to137801:33:19,260 --> 01:33:22,830feed drop, because they are notselling it at all,137901:33:23,280 --> 01:33:25,260Unknown: in what you're gonnahear in this pilot episode,138001:33:25,590 --> 01:33:28,770which is not too long, becauseyou know, they're just testing138101:33:28,770 --> 01:33:32,070the waters and filling thingsout. And and you can tell like,138201:33:32,070 --> 01:33:33,960they've been friends for a longtime, but they're maybe they138301:33:33,960 --> 01:33:36,900don't have the stamina. Yeah,their chemistry is kind of a138401:33:36,900 --> 01:33:39,570little wonky as they kind offigure out what they're doing,138501:33:39,600 --> 01:33:44,640you might hear. So, and for me,it was interesting listening to138601:33:44,640 --> 01:33:48,000Amy, because she would just kindof like, you could tell at some138701:33:48,000 --> 01:33:50,250point she her attentionwandered. And she would kind of138801:33:50,250 --> 01:33:53,280check her phone a little bitwhile somebody was talking about138901:33:53,280 --> 01:33:56,400something that was reallyimportant to them. But you'll139001:33:56,400 --> 01:33:59,160listen for yourself. I don'twant to cloud. Yeah,139101:33:59,580 --> 01:34:04,920Adam Curry: this reminds me somuch of pod show. When because139201:34:04,920 --> 01:34:09,090we tried to run it like atraditional network. This is139301:34:09,090 --> 01:34:11,160where I came up with the wholeterm. You can't monetize the139401:34:11,160 --> 01:34:16,860network. We tried to do it withpromo codes. And what wound up139501:34:16,860 --> 01:34:21,870happening is everybody had theircode and they were making good139601:34:21,870 --> 01:34:24,810money because they werebasically becoming SEO experts139701:34:24,810 --> 01:34:27,390with their codes. People weren'tgetting the codes from the139801:34:27,390 --> 01:34:30,930shows. Now they were gettingthem by going to google139901:34:31,020 --> 01:34:33,960someone's whoa, I'm gonna I'm atcheckout here I need to code140001:34:34,770 --> 01:34:39,420right now. I'm gonna I'm gonnabuy some SEO whatever. That was140101:34:39,420 --> 01:34:43,860never an advertiser. I'm gonnabuy something. And I need to140201:34:43,860 --> 01:34:47,310code so you you go to Google,you search the code, whoever's140301:34:47,310 --> 01:34:51,090code pops up at the top they gotthe credit it was basically a140401:34:51,090 --> 01:34:59,970scam. And, and it's just itdoesn't. It doesn't work well.140501:35:01,230 --> 01:35:04,380Dave Jones: And then this ispodcast winter. This is the140601:35:04,920 --> 01:35:06,210beginning of the podcast winter.140701:35:06,210 --> 01:35:11,880Adam Curry: Yes, it is thepodcast winter. It is its direct140801:35:11,880 --> 01:35:15,030response is very difficult inthis in this manner because you140901:35:15,690 --> 01:35:19,830just as I said, I've been, I'veseen it over and over and over141001:35:19,830 --> 01:35:26,610again. Where now the the code isin a YouTube does it to me the141101:35:26,610 --> 01:35:30,360code is in the YouTubedescription. It's they they141201:35:30,390 --> 01:35:33,780people become SEO experts atcodes. That's real. It's not141301:35:33,780 --> 01:35:39,060really coming from the podcast.Whereas I think Linode probably141401:35:39,540 --> 01:35:44,580Jupiter probably use codes. ButI'm listening to it because I'm141501:35:44,580 --> 01:35:47,310interested in how they sell it.I'm interested in what they're141601:35:47,310 --> 01:35:50,310selling, there's a differentmessage often there's like, no141701:35:50,310 --> 01:35:52,830blue node has this we havesomething melts. And and I141801:35:52,830 --> 01:35:55,500always chuckle when they sayit's now a part of aka Miam.141901:35:55,500 --> 01:35:57,570Like, yeah.142001:36:00,420 --> 01:36:04,170Dave Jones: I know, people willsay that, you know, oh, feed142101:36:04,170 --> 01:36:08,280drops had been done for I getthat that's not that's not the142201:36:08,280 --> 01:36:12,510point. Understand feed dropshave always been been happening.142301:36:13,440 --> 01:36:20,130The thing that startles me alittle bit, is that what this is142401:36:20,130 --> 01:36:27,720this thing here is a large netpodcast network that has is142501:36:27,720 --> 01:36:34,230saying our new strategy isbasically to do is to only do142601:36:34,260 --> 01:36:38,670one pilot episode, and then feeddrop it everywhere, that that142701:36:38,670 --> 01:36:43,320seems to be the policy goingforward. Because that, that it142801:36:43,320 --> 01:36:49,230tells me that the money is sotight, that they really is no142901:36:49,230 --> 01:36:54,450margin for error. The there'scertain, there's certain there's143001:36:54,450 --> 01:36:59,190certain certain things that thatare that people do learn, excuse143101:36:59,190 --> 01:37:04,200me, that companies do that aresort of standard and you'll see143201:37:04,200 --> 01:37:08,790them happen every now and then.Things you know, certain types143301:37:08,790 --> 01:37:11,220of you know, like, I mean,certain types of sales loss143401:37:11,220 --> 01:37:14,160leaders these things, I mean,these are just normal part of143501:37:14,160 --> 01:37:17,130doing business you do that. Butthen there's a different than143601:37:17,160 --> 01:37:22,320then something will happen whereyou see a company go all in and143701:37:22,320 --> 01:37:26,940just be in like completely lostleader half of their, you know,143801:37:27,450 --> 01:37:29,400Adam Curry: is desperation thenext step for them as they're143901:37:29,400 --> 01:37:31,680going to be doing? They're gonnabe doing podcasts about the144001:37:31,680 --> 01:37:35,100products. That's always the nextstep. Before you know it,144101:37:35,100 --> 01:37:38,430they'll be doing the Acura RDXpodcast, you know, there'll be144201:37:38,460 --> 01:37:42,330producing it Yeah. Brandedpodcast I shared with you a mess144301:37:42,360 --> 01:37:45,480is troublesome is troublesome?Well, I shared with you a144401:37:45,480 --> 01:37:48,690message, someone approached meand said, a guy we know144501:37:48,690 --> 01:37:54,570reputable. He says, If I have$30 million, I want to start a144601:37:54,570 --> 01:38:01,410media company that thatbasically red pills or orange144701:38:01,410 --> 01:38:07,740pills people that gets people tounderstand or use Bitcoin and144801:38:07,740 --> 01:38:12,900does it in a soft handed way.And, and I'm actually talking to144901:38:12,900 --> 01:38:14,490him on Monday, because145001:38:14,760 --> 01:38:17,190Dave Jones: I hadn't been thatguy. Oh, it would have I would145101:38:17,190 --> 01:38:18,690have thought it was bullshit.Yeah.145201:38:20,820 --> 01:38:23,160Adam Curry: And so I know whatI'm going to say. The first145301:38:23,160 --> 01:38:26,130thing I'm going to say is,here's what's not to do, do not145401:38:26,130 --> 01:38:31,230invest a single dime in content,a single dime. But I'm going to145501:38:31,230 --> 01:38:36,240tell him and I'm it'd becompletely selfish. I'm going to145601:38:36,240 --> 01:38:42,480say, what we need here is amarketing company, a company145701:38:42,510 --> 01:38:47,700that markets apps, podcasts,wallets, but really, if you want145801:38:47,700 --> 01:38:53,160to be a media company, then youshould go to the now Linux, I'm145901:38:53,160 --> 01:38:55,380just gonna use Linux unplugged,because I like those guys. And146001:38:55,380 --> 01:39:00,660this is easy target. And the youwill market the crap out of them146101:39:00,750 --> 01:39:04,950in return for which you get a 5%split more 1% I don't care, it's146201:39:04,950 --> 01:39:09,900irrelevant. From their feed.They really the your media146301:39:09,900 --> 01:39:12,330company should actually be awallet provider to be honest146401:39:12,330 --> 01:39:15,660about it. You should beproviding wallets and wallets146501:39:15,660 --> 01:39:17,400like a lightning serviceprovider, you should be146601:39:17,400 --> 01:39:22,020providing services so thatpeople can easily get a wallet,146701:39:22,320 --> 01:39:26,130easily funded. These are all thethings that are hard. But what146801:39:26,160 --> 01:39:32,190all we need is we needmarketing. We need PR we need we146901:39:32,190 --> 01:39:35,640need Mitch being doinginterviews with publications, we147001:39:35,640 --> 01:39:38,370need Oscar, you know, becausethat's what happens with VC147101:39:38,370 --> 01:39:42,270money. When people get VC moneyfirst of all, you handcuffed147201:39:42,300 --> 01:39:47,040golden handcuffs, and then youwind up paying yourself and then147301:39:47,940 --> 01:39:51,780you know you you spend most ofthe money marketing you know to147401:39:51,780 --> 01:39:54,930get your next funding round.That's how it works. So so147501:39:54,930 --> 01:39:58,440instead I'm gonna say why don'tyou reverse that process? Cuz I147601:39:58,440 --> 01:40:01,650don't want any money from you. II'm done with that I'm, I'm an147701:40:01,650 --> 01:40:07,110old guy, now. We're happy withpodcasts index 1% of everything147801:40:07,110 --> 01:40:11,490that moves around. And ofcourse, we get, you know, people147901:40:11,490 --> 01:40:14,490put more in there, peoplesupport us as value for value.148001:40:14,670 --> 01:40:17,370So as you look, I think we have,I think we have two Bitcoin now148101:40:17,370 --> 01:40:20,490on the node, which we never takeout, it's there, we provide148201:40:20,490 --> 01:40:21,990liquidity to everybody.148301:40:22,890 --> 01:40:25,650Dave Jones: But that's when,when that dries up, we drove to148401:40:25,710 --> 01:40:26,370exact148501:40:26,370 --> 01:40:29,940Adam Curry: but the point is, isthat that's coming from, you148601:40:29,940 --> 01:40:32,760know, not just booster Graham'sfor this show, it's coming from148701:40:32,760 --> 01:40:36,210a lot of different places. Soand he does, he says, he doesn't148801:40:36,210 --> 01:40:38,190even relate. It's not evennecessarily big profit, but148901:40:38,190 --> 01:40:40,200good, then you're perfect for amarketing company.149001:40:40,860 --> 01:40:43,950Dave Jones: But, but youjettison profit. Yeah. And this149101:40:43,950 --> 01:40:44,730is you're in the strike zone.149201:40:44,760 --> 01:40:47,880Adam Curry: I mean, I would justbe promoting apps promoting149301:40:47,910 --> 01:40:51,900onboarding, we have everythingyou need. The last things, I149401:40:51,900 --> 01:40:55,170hope I can convince this guy notto do what everyone's gonna do.149501:40:55,290 --> 01:40:58,830Hey, man, yeah, let's make astudio, let's have a studio149601:40:58,830 --> 01:41:02,040where people can create shows,that's gonna suck. And as a is a149701:41:02,040 --> 01:41:05,790good way to throw away $30million. That's not what's149801:41:05,790 --> 01:41:09,480needed here. We need thisecosystem we've created we need149901:41:09,480 --> 01:41:14,280it to be marketed. We need everyand then there's the apps, the150001:41:14,280 --> 01:41:18,390podcasts, and there's onlythere's only 16 or 17,000150101:41:18,390 --> 01:41:21,900podcasts via you can, you canhighlight stuff, you can create150201:41:21,900 --> 01:41:24,960an onboarding station. That'sthe one thing we don't have. We150301:41:24,960 --> 01:41:27,000don't have marketing. We neverthat's what people wanted150401:41:27,000 --> 01:41:30,180podcasts index to be. And wediscovered we're no good at150501:41:30,180 --> 01:41:33,480that. We don't have the time,the talent or the treasure,150601:41:34,050 --> 01:41:37,440literally full time job. Yeah, Imean, it takes a huge150701:41:37,440 --> 01:41:42,630organization. So I hope, I hopeeven if I can get a million of150801:41:42,630 --> 01:41:46,560that 30 to be put into marketingwhat we're doing, that'll be a150901:41:46,560 --> 01:41:49,320win. So that's my, that's mycoming week. That's what I'll be151001:41:49,320 --> 01:41:50,460doing. Well,151101:41:50,460 --> 01:41:53,130Dave Jones: podcast. Luckily,you know, this goes back to the151201:41:53,160 --> 01:41:56,430discussion we've had beforewhere podcasting is a media151301:41:56,430 --> 01:42:01,080distribution. platform that's,that's already built. Everybody151401:42:01,080 --> 01:42:05,340already has a podcast, radioreceiver in their pocket. So151501:42:05,370 --> 01:42:09,060instead of trying to buildsomething new from scratch, you151601:42:09,060 --> 01:42:13,170know, which is typically whatBitcoin people try to do always.151701:42:13,170 --> 01:42:16,020Yeah, they try to bid it's like,it's the not invented here151801:42:16,020 --> 01:42:20,970stuff. Just take, you know,take, take your take your money151901:42:20,970 --> 01:42:24,030if you have some and build ontop of something that's already152001:42:24,030 --> 01:42:27,690there. Like, I mean, that it'salready there. Yeah. And have to152101:42:27,690 --> 01:42:28,950build it all over again.152201:42:29,070 --> 01:42:32,340Adam Curry: And don't Oh, andone other thing I'd have, um,152301:42:32,340 --> 01:42:36,660say. I think it would have to bea wall, you know, lightning152401:42:36,660 --> 01:42:39,960service provider, make it sothat people can connect their152501:42:39,960 --> 01:42:45,000podcast to the value for valueinfrastructure. And that when152601:42:45,000 --> 01:42:50,070someone sends a boost, it dropsinto their, into their bank152701:42:50,070 --> 01:42:53,700account as dollars. This is thething. Yeah, this is what this152801:42:53,700 --> 01:42:56,460is what we never were able tosucceed. What was the name of152901:42:56,460 --> 01:43:00,240the company that was working nownot will strike won't do it.153001:43:00,990 --> 01:43:05,730Worked on that. With those guys.One swung? Oh, no. Well, another153101:43:05,730 --> 01:43:10,950one that didn't do it. I wasworking with it, because I had153201:43:10,950 --> 01:43:16,290it working for a little bit. AndI have x Yeah, X endevor. I153301:43:16,290 --> 01:43:20,550actually was okay with it. Untilyou know, they couldn't do it153401:43:20,550 --> 01:43:23,160anymore. Whatever, they fellapart. They never could do value153501:43:23,160 --> 01:43:25,920for value streaming side, theycouldn't do lightning basically.153601:43:26,520 --> 01:43:29,280But if you can make it so thatpeople don't have to make that153701:43:29,280 --> 01:43:32,730conversion you overnight, yousweep it into an account for153801:43:32,730 --> 01:43:36,810them. The strike for all I care,it doesn't matter where it is.153901:43:36,930 --> 01:43:39,360These are the things that willmove it forward. And when you154001:43:39,360 --> 01:43:44,520get people using Bitcoin. That'sthe whole point. You don't want154101:43:44,520 --> 01:43:48,690to have to explain it to them.You want you want to give them a154201:43:48,690 --> 01:43:53,250way to use it. So hopefully theyknow it's not Jack Dorsey,154301:43:53,250 --> 01:43:54,570please blueberry.154401:43:56,370 --> 01:44:00,150Dave Jones: JD brown it give mea break.154501:44:01,440 --> 01:44:04,920Adam Curry: Anyway, so that'swhat I hope to bring to the next154601:44:04,920 --> 01:44:07,830board meeting something positiveon that. Wouldn't that be great154701:44:07,830 --> 01:44:10,950if we got some we got someonethat just marketed this stuff?154801:44:11,040 --> 01:44:14,070Because the last thing I want isthat we don't want money. I154901:44:14,070 --> 01:44:14,760don't want money.155001:44:15,390 --> 01:44:17,310Dave Jones: No, no, it's toomuch stress.155101:44:17,400 --> 01:44:22,020Adam Curry: I mean, no, no, no,we don't we just I just want I155201:44:22,020 --> 01:44:25,200just want this to more people tobe exposed to this market, the155301:44:25,200 --> 01:44:30,600apps market this stuff marketaims Ainslie Costello, to market155401:44:30,600 --> 01:44:31,440the live show.155501:44:32,640 --> 01:44:37,200Dave Jones: Market this marketthe the the people who are155601:44:37,200 --> 01:44:42,570already there? Yes. And youdon't doesn't include us with I155701:44:42,570 --> 01:44:44,940don't want any of that. No,because market market the people155801:44:44,940 --> 01:44:47,130that are already there that areproducing the content people155901:44:47,130 --> 01:44:47,850want to hear.156001:44:48,330 --> 01:44:50,130Adam Curry: Hopefully it's goingto be such a because I know he's156101:44:50,130 --> 01:44:52,200talking to other people aboutthis. Hopefully it's going to be156201:44:52,200 --> 01:44:54,750such a different message thatwill go Oh, because I can156301:44:54,750 --> 01:45:00,510definitely tell them how I how Ispent $65 million on it. Podcast156401:45:00,510 --> 01:45:03,510Network and tell him that so youwant that that's fine. Now,156501:45:03,690 --> 01:45:06,240let's find out what you'retalking about. Finally, find156601:45:06,240 --> 01:45:08,490lots of people to spend thatmoney for you. But if you really156701:45:08,490 --> 01:45:11,340want to do something, if youhave an outcome in mind, this is156801:45:11,340 --> 01:45:15,480what you do. Here's the people.It's it's we have 16,000 We156901:45:15,480 --> 01:45:18,900have, I mean, oh my god, imagineif we're marketing music and157001:45:18,900 --> 01:45:21,720music shows. Can you justimagine what happened?157101:45:21,750 --> 01:45:25,590Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, I mean,this is the perfect time for157201:45:25,590 --> 01:45:28,680somebody to put money behind themusic. Yep. The value for value157301:45:28,680 --> 01:45:32,940music ecosystem. Yep. Do it. Imean, like, yeah, and we'll and157401:45:32,940 --> 01:45:36,720we'll, and we'll keep building.It makes it work, keep157501:45:36,720 --> 01:45:38,790Adam Curry: building, keepbuilding. And because we have157601:45:38,790 --> 01:45:42,810the value splits, everybodywins. Everybody wins, number go157701:45:42,810 --> 01:45:45,870up number go up for everybody.Well,157801:45:46,830 --> 01:45:48,750Dave Jones: we need to talkabout one more thing before we157901:45:48,870 --> 01:45:54,840okay. Thank people. Sure. Yeah,sure. So would the other thing158001:45:54,840 --> 01:46:00,480is our terms of service for thepodcast index? I mean, this is a158101:46:00,480 --> 01:46:05,100board meeting. So this is anappropriate topic that somebody158201:46:05,100 --> 01:46:12,180brought up on. On the podcastindex, GitHub repos database158301:46:12,390 --> 01:46:19,020repository. Somebody posted onthere that the that the term158401:46:19,050 --> 01:46:22,770that our terms of serviceprohibit prohibit, it's like,158501:46:23,370 --> 01:46:25,950section five dot something Idon't know, fell asleep,158601:46:26,340 --> 01:46:30,930prohibits people from buildingdatabases based on the158701:46:30,930 --> 01:46:34,950information that they get fromthe index. Oh, really? Which?158801:46:35,490 --> 01:46:41,220Yeah. So I mean, for clarity,this the our terms of service158901:46:41,220 --> 01:46:46,650goes back to literally like dayone. I mean, it's so it's been159001:46:46,650 --> 01:46:50,520there. I don't even know what'sin it was a it was boilerplate159101:46:50,520 --> 01:46:56,220material. Yeah, let's rip thatout. Yeah, do so do we need but159201:46:56,400 --> 01:46:59,460but if there's stuff in it, thatwe don't even know about that.159301:46:59,460 --> 01:47:02,520We need somebody to just writeus to pay somebody just write us159401:47:02,520 --> 01:47:04,590some terms of service that makebetter sense.159501:47:04,710 --> 01:47:06,930Adam Curry: I think that wecould have someone review it.159601:47:07,080 --> 01:47:12,060And one thing I know for surethere's lawyers in my life, who159701:47:12,060 --> 01:47:15,060will gladly help us out withtheir time and talent to just159801:47:15,060 --> 01:47:17,280run through it and say, Hey,this makes no sense for what159901:47:17,280 --> 01:47:19,770you're doing. So that rightthere five, a whatever it is, we160001:47:19,770 --> 01:47:21,600should just take that out, ofcourse, people should be able to160101:47:21,600 --> 01:47:25,440build build databases off of ourdatabase.160201:47:26,010 --> 01:47:29,190Dave Jones: Yeah, that was like,what what? Yeah, no, we don't160301:47:29,190 --> 01:47:32,250want that. I mean, that's notthat doesn't make any sense. I'm160401:47:32,250 --> 01:47:35,070sure it had something to saythat that's the problem with160501:47:35,070 --> 01:47:37,440boilerplate stuff. And I'm sureit had something to do with160601:47:37,440 --> 01:47:41,100like, don't scrape us and buildan email list or have a, you160701:47:41,100 --> 01:47:43,140know, some crap like that. Well,160801:47:43,140 --> 01:47:45,330Adam Curry: we know who we bothknow, who was in charge of160901:47:45,330 --> 01:47:49,140making those. Those terms ofservice, and that person had161001:47:49,140 --> 01:47:53,190different ideas about who wewere and what we're about. Yeah.161101:47:53,250 --> 01:47:54,240So if161201:47:54,420 --> 01:47:58,110Dave Jones: it's probably like,I really wish that we could have161301:47:58,110 --> 01:48:03,120a terms of service that was justlike, you know, don't do this.161401:48:03,150 --> 01:48:06,720Don't do this. Don't do this.But basically just a clear, it's161501:48:06,720 --> 01:48:09,870not like some 12 Pagemonstrosity, that nobody knows161601:48:09,870 --> 01:48:14,610what's in it. I wish it was justthe simple thing that that said,161701:48:14,820 --> 01:48:18,330you know, hey, don't spam thedon't spam the index. Right?161801:48:18,360 --> 01:48:21,660Don't you know, basically allthis stuff? Like don't Don't be161901:48:21,660 --> 01:48:22,410a douche?162001:48:23,280 --> 01:48:26,250Adam Curry: How about that?Terms of Service? Point one a162101:48:26,250 --> 01:48:29,730Don't be a douche. There is nopoint to point162201:48:29,730 --> 01:48:34,170Dave Jones: yet. Point two is,you know, question mark. That's162301:48:34,170 --> 01:48:37,740what I want. Because I don't Ihave to stuff in the terms that162401:48:37,740 --> 01:48:40,140don't even I don't evenunderstand. So well, if162501:48:40,140 --> 01:48:44,310Adam Curry: you're, if you're alawyer, reach out to us. And I162601:48:44,310 --> 01:48:51,060will, we have a pretty good guy.Rob, who's, he does a lot of162701:48:51,660 --> 01:48:54,690analysis for me. And I'll askhim if he'll if he'll just run a162801:48:54,690 --> 01:48:57,990check and take a look. And hecould probably just do that and162901:48:57,990 --> 01:49:00,090say, Hey, here's some thingsWhat do you think about this or163001:49:00,090 --> 01:49:02,340that? I mean, it's, it's notlike writing something new, I163101:49:02,340 --> 01:49:05,340think we can just strip out orchange chains of things that163201:49:05,340 --> 01:49:07,980aren't appropriate to what we'redoing. And he understands value163301:49:07,980 --> 01:49:08,520for value.163401:49:09,570 --> 01:49:12,600Dave Jones: Okay, but like whatgood point back back then back163501:49:12,600 --> 01:49:16,290then when we first did it, Iwent through it and wrote a163601:49:16,290 --> 01:49:20,490simplified version of it. Thatwas like, basically here's the163701:49:20,490 --> 01:49:23,730things that the terms say, butthat was so long ago, I forgot163801:49:23,730 --> 01:49:26,250even what it was now. Sointeresting.163901:49:26,610 --> 01:49:29,460Adam Curry: Interesting. Youbring that up? Because I'm right164001:49:29,460 --> 01:49:36,000now and that was for as muchcrap as I give ai ai ai because164101:49:36,000 --> 01:49:37,140you know, are164201:49:37,140 --> 01:49:39,450Dave Jones: you being Are youbeing seduced? No, no,164301:49:39,450 --> 01:49:41,610Adam Curry: no, I'm not beingseduced. I'm actually let me164401:49:41,610 --> 01:49:46,770just bring this up here for asecond. I think I sent you a164501:49:46,770 --> 01:49:52,560copy of this. But the I useotter.ai for our transcription.164601:49:53,520 --> 01:49:56,040Dave Jones: Oh, yeah. Yeah, youdid send me this. Yeah. And164701:49:56,370 --> 01:49:58,770Adam Curry: is it still do youstill have it? And what and then164801:49:58,800 --> 01:50:02,940so otter is is you For a numberof things, people can use it164901:50:02,940 --> 01:50:07,440for, you know, for meetings andcalls and all kinds of stuff.165001:50:07,920 --> 01:50:12,420And so it had this pre prewritten thing. I'm gonna see if165101:50:12,420 --> 01:50:19,830I can replicate it. What are theaction items from this meeting?165201:50:20,370 --> 01:50:25,350So this is on episode 161. Andso I asked what are the action165301:50:25,350 --> 01:50:28,620items from this meeting, and itsays some of the main and it165401:50:28,620 --> 01:50:33,150came back with something, whichis really funny. Some of the165501:50:33,150 --> 01:50:35,970main action items from thismeeting include making the165601:50:35,970 --> 01:50:39,510activity pub bridge code publicon GitHub after removing API165701:50:39,510 --> 01:50:40,260tokens.165801:50:41,250 --> 01:50:42,420Dave Jones: That's exactlyright. Yeah,165901:50:42,450 --> 01:50:47,610Adam Curry: did you do it and gookay, good job adding links to166001:50:47,610 --> 01:50:51,300popular podcast apps like podverse Pocket Casts etc under166101:50:51,300 --> 01:50:55,710each episode on the activity pubbridge. Now of course not adding166201:50:55,710 --> 01:51:00,150support to heli pad to postbooster grams as replies under166301:51:00,150 --> 01:51:03,750episode posts on the activitypub bridge another good idea?166401:51:04,350 --> 01:51:08,610No, of course not. I'm justreading writing right over three166501:51:08,850 --> 01:51:11,970writing an explainer documentabout activity pub to help166601:51:11,970 --> 01:51:16,680podcast developers understandand integrate with it and in my166701:51:16,680 --> 01:51:19,770defense, you have to defendanything brother only166801:51:19,770 --> 01:51:22,560Dave Jones: for in my designdefending myself against this a166901:51:22,590 --> 01:51:28,470douche point for I did say bythe end of the month, so I gave167001:51:28,470 --> 01:51:29,910myself plenty of time.167101:51:30,930 --> 01:51:34,320Adam Curry: And the followinglast one can I love this because167201:51:34,320 --> 01:51:37,710it actually gives us a good listof stuff to remind us of167301:51:38,310 --> 01:51:41,970continuing to improve cachingissues on Mastodon to ensure167401:51:41,970 --> 01:51:48,750album art and other metadata isupdated properly. No. Zero for167501:51:48,750 --> 01:51:52,920five good meeting everybody.Well, notice I had no action167601:51:52,920 --> 01:51:53,400items.167701:51:55,170 --> 01:51:57,030Dave Jones: What is what isthis? Just what167801:51:57,480 --> 01:51:59,940Adam Curry: does this make youhate AI even more now?167901:52:00,480 --> 01:52:02,490Dave Jones: Yeah, it does.Actually.168001:52:02,520 --> 01:52:04,830Adam Curry: I'm gonna put thesehere i holding me accountable.168101:52:05,400 --> 01:52:09,240Ai action item list. I'm goingto put I'm going to keep this in168201:52:09,240 --> 01:52:11,730the show notes. That'shilarious. Oh,168301:52:11,730 --> 01:52:15,000Dave Jones: yeah, we if you keepreferring back to the old stuff168401:52:15,000 --> 01:52:18,120that the AI dealt with, we willsee model collapse in real time168501:52:18,120 --> 01:52:19,770as we go forward. Ooh, nice.168601:52:19,770 --> 01:52:20,220Adam Curry: Yes.168701:52:22,980 --> 01:52:25,290Dave Jones: Let's make it let'slet's Fried's brains, please.168801:52:25,650 --> 01:52:27,690Adam Curry: Let's thank a fewpeople because I know you gotta168901:52:27,690 --> 01:52:31,350go back to the office. I'm sureI'm off today. Oh,169001:52:31,680 --> 01:52:32,070Dave Jones: no.169101:52:32,880 --> 01:52:35,190Adam Curry: Crack a beerbrother. All right, here we go.169201:52:35,790 --> 01:52:39,990Nathan G this is all the livebooths people with a row of169301:52:39,990 --> 01:52:43,230ducks if the index has all thebooster grams where you've169401:52:43,230 --> 01:52:46,170received a split, because thosecould those be served as169501:52:46,170 --> 01:52:49,650lightning comments in the socialinteract tag. Why don't you just169601:52:49,650 --> 01:52:58,050grab the third rail and lick itthis socket stick your fingers169701:52:58,050 --> 01:53:02,790in a socket. This is this is nodoubt we'll169801:53:02,790 --> 01:53:06,060Dave Jones: never see the lightof No. Promise you this not169901:53:06,060 --> 01:53:10,110happen but I appreciate enoughmoney in the world to make that170001:53:10,110 --> 01:53:11,460happen. Not gonna happen.170101:53:12,600 --> 01:53:17,850Adam Curry: Hard Hat 12345 Thankyou horrified. Go podcasts,170201:53:18,150 --> 01:53:22,440blueberry. With ADA ADA. LastFriday, Ainsley and I compiled170301:53:22,440 --> 01:53:25,770every boost and zapped to readthem live on a special edition170401:53:25,770 --> 01:53:30,960of before the stream be be be40. Yes. Even after reading the170501:53:30,960 --> 01:53:34,740booths at breakneck speeds, ittook two and a half hours to get170601:53:34,740 --> 01:53:39,180through everything. He saysexactly what I call value. Yes.170701:53:39,840 --> 01:53:44,220Yes. Beautiful. I love that. SamSethi a couple of boosts from170801:53:44,220 --> 01:53:49,740Sam. Let's see we enabled wejust enabled people who create a170901:53:49,740 --> 01:53:54,240playlist to be paid 5% insomeone else's if someone else171001:53:54,240 --> 01:53:57,540streams that are playlists, andthe other 95% goes to the171101:53:57,540 --> 01:54:02,220podcaster. Very interesting.These are all these are all171201:54:02,340 --> 01:54:08,070great things. Sam is definitelyrunning around. Dave is this is171301:54:08,070 --> 01:54:12,42010,000 SATs by the way this is10,000 SATs each time, Dave, we171401:54:12,420 --> 01:54:16,230are already talking to threehosts to trial a verify podcast171501:54:16,230 --> 01:54:20,010method today is email. But inother ways token in the Verify171601:54:20,010 --> 01:54:25,920tag or simpler is the REL equalsme model. Okay, do you want to171701:54:25,920 --> 01:54:28,590comment on that on that becausehe keeps pushing this the REL171801:54:28,590 --> 01:54:29,610equals me model?171901:54:32,610 --> 01:54:34,320Dave Jones: No, I don't I don'twant to come in. Because I don't172001:54:34,320 --> 01:54:38,070know enough about about it. Yes,but I do. I will make this172101:54:38,070 --> 01:54:41,970general statement. I Iintentionally stayed out of the172201:54:41,970 --> 01:54:48,600namespace until the end of theyear. Because I felt like just a172301:54:48,600 --> 01:54:53,820personal conviction that it wasthat we were moving too fast and172401:54:53,820 --> 01:54:57,270we needed to slow down a bit tolet people catch up. But I'm172501:54:57,270 --> 01:55:01,110back in there now started as ofyesterday. Um back in there and172601:55:01,110 --> 01:55:06,000so we can feel if people wereseeing that the discussions were172701:55:06,000 --> 01:55:09,090not happening or moving forward,feel free to pop back in there172801:55:09,090 --> 01:55:11,190now because I'm going to beactive in the comments again,172901:55:11,370 --> 01:55:13,380Sam, as we enter, we can moveforward, Sam173001:55:13,380 --> 01:55:15,540Adam Curry: is paying our renttoday man, another 10,000 from173101:55:15,540 --> 01:55:19,740Sam Sethi. 100% Adam,advertisers will pay listeners173201:55:19,740 --> 01:55:22,710we will be able to telladvertisers who listened percent173301:55:22,710 --> 01:55:26,310completed and value paid tolistener. This is negative sets,173401:55:26,310 --> 01:55:29,970which we already support in truefans using value time split. If173501:55:29,970 --> 01:55:33,330I listen, I get paid. If not,nothing is paid. I'd love to see173601:55:33,330 --> 01:55:36,750an example of an advertiserdoing that and how you prevent173701:55:37,110 --> 01:55:41,730clicks. Ma'am, we do another10,000 phase seven looks super173801:55:41,730 --> 01:55:46,050hot XMPP client verify andpublisher l fountain will be the173901:55:46,050 --> 01:55:49,980other app. But we already haveanother app. So it's cool. Yeah.174001:55:50,010 --> 01:55:55,110XMPP I'm kind of excited aboutthat concept for another 10,000174101:55:55,140 --> 01:55:58,260samsat. The the medium ofpublisher is a static good we174201:55:58,260 --> 01:56:01,980have a medium of Publisher L andwe also add the feed items we174301:56:01,980 --> 01:56:07,230can update the publisher page ifa new episode is published. Does174401:56:07,230 --> 01:56:07,920that make sense?174501:56:11,310 --> 01:56:15,510Dave Jones: This part of this ispart of their thing where they174601:56:15,600 --> 01:56:18,300where they can add stuff to thefeed back out.174701:56:18,330 --> 01:56:21,120Adam Curry: I think so. Yeah. Soyou can subscribe to the174801:56:21,120 --> 01:56:28,860publisher L and then you get theepisodes there. I think I have174901:56:28,860 --> 01:56:31,020to go look at it. Okay,175001:56:31,200 --> 01:56:34,740Dave Jones: well, well, well, wejust we need we're gonna start175101:56:34,740 --> 01:56:38,460having guests again. Yeah, so weneed to have we'll just have Sam175201:56:38,460 --> 01:56:39,000back on the show. We175301:56:39,000 --> 01:56:43,350Adam Curry: got to have him backon the show. Then we have175401:56:43,350 --> 01:56:46,200another 10,000 from Sam we haveimplement you might as well be a175501:56:46,200 --> 01:56:49,620guest we have implemented apublisher playlist so you follow175601:56:49,620 --> 01:56:52,740a publisher we notify you of anynew updates got it. That's good.175701:56:52,740 --> 01:56:57,210So this is going to be in phaseseven then 500 from radio Pete175801:56:57,210 --> 01:57:00,510Hello radio Pete he sayslistening live like a 2.0 Pro175901:57:00,540 --> 01:57:03,300Happy New Year to you bothhoping to understand more of176001:57:03,300 --> 01:57:07,200what you talk about in 2024 I'msure he got very confused by the176101:57:07,200 --> 01:57:11,910beginning of the show. Probablysorry. I love people who say I176201:57:11,910 --> 01:57:14,280listen to the show. I don't getmost of it but I love listening176301:57:14,280 --> 01:57:16,230to the show. That's that's myfavorite176401:57:16,230 --> 01:57:18,420Dave Jones: type of feedback.That is a real as a real176501:57:18,420 --> 01:57:19,200compliment. It176601:57:19,200 --> 01:57:21,840Adam Curry: is it is becausewe're making stuff entertaining176701:57:21,870 --> 01:57:26,940even if it's gobbledygook Yeah,Eric p p 3333. Boost plus plus176801:57:26,940 --> 01:57:35,550salty Crayon 3333 says test testreceived and let me see I think176901:57:35,580 --> 01:57:38,640that's what I got. Yes, that'sall I have.177001:57:39,540 --> 01:57:42,000Dave Jones: Oh, see we get await. I gotta get a printer.177101:57:42,000 --> 01:57:42,270Hello.177201:57:42,990 --> 01:57:45,840Adam Curry: Get off the printer.By the way I've printed177301:57:45,840 --> 01:57:50,220Dave Jones: two things out and Iforgot to go okay would you say177401:57:50,220 --> 01:57:51,270by the way what no no177501:57:51,270 --> 01:57:53,520Adam Curry: keep don't forgetforget me. No,177601:57:53,520 --> 01:57:57,750Dave Jones: because I forgot topull Oscar Mary's Pay Pal of177701:57:57,750 --> 01:58:00,750$200 off the printer thank you Iwas coming Wow177801:58:00,750 --> 01:58:03,210Adam Curry: Hello Oscar. MaryThank you very much. Let me do177901:58:03,210 --> 01:58:09,720allow for you brother 20 bladeson I am Paula always him always178001:58:09,720 --> 01:58:10,440appreciated.178101:58:11,040 --> 01:58:15,570Dave Jones: Yeah. And I had nothad my first live experience178201:58:15,570 --> 01:58:18,600using fountain the other day Ihad not listened to anything178301:58:18,600 --> 01:58:20,280live on fountain and it wasgood.178401:58:20,730 --> 01:58:23,040Adam Curry: Oh, it works verywell. Yeah,178501:58:23,130 --> 01:58:27,570Dave Jones: I popped into oh,what's the one that Dame178601:58:27,570 --> 01:58:29,310DeLorean does the178701:58:29,310 --> 01:58:33,330Adam Curry: live the that's theis it in that this the smoker in178801:58:33,330 --> 01:58:34,950the smoker and now178901:58:34,950 --> 01:58:37,710Dave Jones: that's Carolyn andthis MEF got what it is that179001:58:38,040 --> 01:58:40,980camera? It's like it starts withage but it can't.179101:58:42,090 --> 01:58:45,390Adam Curry: Now it'll come tohog story hug story. Now179201:58:45,390 --> 01:58:48,300Dave Jones: as long story, it'sa music podcast.179301:58:49,140 --> 01:58:49,980Adam Curry: Oh homegrown,179401:58:49,980 --> 01:58:52,740Dave Jones: his hunger on hits?Yes. Thank you. Thank you. Thank179501:58:52,740 --> 01:58:57,540you. Yep, homegrown, has goodshow. Great experience on on179601:58:57,570 --> 01:59:03,540fountain. See, and here. Here'sour here's our replies. So this179701:59:03,540 --> 01:59:13,020is from this is from Trevor theSatanist in Australia. He says179801:59:13,020 --> 01:59:16,050Hi, Dave, please, this this isin response to our comment about179901:59:16,050 --> 01:59:21,300weather about the Satan like,oh, this dynamic ad is yes.180001:59:21,360 --> 01:59:25,500Adam Curry: Oh, you mean the 666in our in our what? What was180101:59:25,500 --> 01:59:27,600that about? I don't remember. At180201:59:27,600 --> 01:59:31,650Dave Jones: least we commentedthat. You said that anybody? You180301:59:31,650 --> 01:59:34,890know you're used to it. Anybodywho allows you know who180401:59:35,190 --> 01:59:39,300encourages Google and YouTube tobe part of your podcast180501:59:39,360 --> 01:59:40,620infrastructure. You're180601:59:40,620 --> 01:59:43,140Adam Curry: one of Satan'shelpers. Yes. And I stand by180701:59:43,140 --> 01:59:44,160that. Yeah. And180801:59:44,160 --> 01:59:47,970Dave Jones: you said in you alsosaid that. We made the comment180901:59:47,970 --> 01:59:51,840that that not even Satan likesdynamic ad insertion. And he181001:59:51,840 --> 01:59:55,290says, Hi Dave, please acceptthis message as Pay Pal booster181101:59:55,290 --> 01:59:58,440gram. message read next time mymother PayPal donations181201:59:58,440 --> 02:00:01,440mentioned congratulations onepisode 161 which had a record181302:00:01,440 --> 02:00:07,860six references to Satan? Toanswer your question, Satan is181402:00:07,860 --> 02:00:11,490ambivalent about giving RSS toYouTube. But he's definitely181502:00:11,490 --> 02:00:17,010against dynamic and it's noteven Satan would stoop that low.181602:00:17,280 --> 02:00:19,650Also, I know you guys are intonumerology and I know that with181702:00:19,650 --> 02:00:23,250approval your podcast ID is9200666. I see what you did181802:00:23,250 --> 02:00:24,360there. Cheers, Trevor.181902:00:24,720 --> 02:00:26,400Adam Curry: That's fine. Howmuch did he give us? What was182002:00:26,400 --> 02:00:26,730his?182102:00:27,540 --> 02:00:29,460Dave Jones: His monthly is this$5 more? Thank182202:00:29,460 --> 02:00:31,410Adam Curry: you. I have a whilewe're on that just really182302:00:31,410 --> 02:00:37,050quickly. You know, I like I likemy email address in my RSS feed.182402:00:37,080 --> 02:00:42,390I like getting the invitationsto interview people. I like182502:00:42,390 --> 02:00:46,170being on those I do I do is veryinteresting. I've never taken182602:00:46,170 --> 02:00:49,620advantage of it. But I got thisfrom a couple of different182702:00:49,620 --> 02:00:53,070people. So there's a campaignout there. And I just want to182802:00:53,070 --> 02:00:59,430let everybody know. It's thesubject line Hi, internet182902:00:59,430 --> 02:01:03,750traffic from YouTube message.When we think about all the183002:01:03,750 --> 02:01:06,510traction, we can gain forpodcast, there are only a few183102:01:06,510 --> 02:01:09,720channels that really stand outin regards to high intent183202:01:09,750 --> 02:01:15,870traffic. The fact of the matteris that who wrote this chat GPT183302:01:16,320 --> 02:01:18,840the fact of the matter is thatYouTube is more of a search183402:01:18,840 --> 02:01:22,380engine than than a social media.Being able to optimize your183502:01:22,380 --> 02:01:24,930content to get those people whoare interested in the exact183602:01:24,930 --> 02:01:28,020topic of a video is imperative.If you're uploading your video183702:01:28,020 --> 02:01:31,890to YouTube as is and not doingany around video optimization,183802:01:32,040 --> 02:01:35,220you're leaving 1000s if nothundreds of 1000s of high intent183902:01:35,250 --> 02:01:38,370engagement on the table. Ifyou're wondering about how your184002:01:38,370 --> 02:01:40,830channel is currently performing,and its potential to grow,184102:01:40,830 --> 02:01:45,510please feel free to schedule acall. And I got this message184202:01:45,510 --> 02:01:50,550from multiple people clearlythrough email address in in the184302:01:50,550 --> 02:01:57,630podcast in RSS feed. So a callplease,184402:01:58,890 --> 02:02:01,110Dave Jones: people would beshocked by the amount of by the184502:02:01,110 --> 02:02:06,060number of people that email uswanting to know how they can get184602:02:06,090 --> 02:02:07,530email addresses from the API.184702:02:07,680 --> 02:02:10,620Adam Curry: Oh my god, yeah.Hey, you know, it's really184802:02:10,620 --> 02:02:13,920weird. I've been looking I havea great project that I'm working184902:02:13,920 --> 02:02:19,470on. I'd love to. I'd love to.I'd love to use podcast index,185002:02:19,680 --> 02:02:22,950but for some reason I can't seemto get the email addresses. Is185102:02:22,950 --> 02:02:23,970this a mistake?185202:02:24,000 --> 02:02:27,030Dave Jones: Like please? I don'tsee it in the documentation185302:02:27,030 --> 02:02:27,720anywhere yeah, I185402:02:27,720 --> 02:02:30,840Adam Curry: can't find it in theAPI Doc's Yeah, okay. Nearby185502:02:30,840 --> 02:02:31,590That's odd. It185602:02:31,590 --> 02:02:37,410Dave Jones: shouldn't be there.Keep looking. Okay, we got Sir185702:02:37,410 --> 02:02:42,930Brian of London 1948 Boost hesays our struggle booster conf185802:02:44,850 --> 02:02:47,970don't start don't start thisBrian with with German. I don't185902:02:47,970 --> 02:02:50,700understand the ins with calm.Well, not a great idea.186002:02:50,730 --> 02:02:53,700Adam Curry: Well, mind calm,which was Hitler's book. That186102:02:53,700 --> 02:02:55,260literally means my struggle.186202:02:56,220 --> 02:02:59,280Dave Jones: Okay, so I'm sayingI'm I'm assuming unser calm is186302:02:59,310 --> 02:03:00,000our struggle.186402:03:00,030 --> 02:03:03,720Adam Curry: Yes, correct. Okay,all right. It's only only Jews186502:03:03,720 --> 02:03:07,620can make these jokes with us.Right? Yes. Self deprecating in186602:03:07,620 --> 02:03:09,630an odd way. Yes.186702:03:10,800 --> 02:03:14,370Dave Jones: Is against Google?Our struggle is against Google.186802:03:14,370 --> 02:03:18,360Hey, Adam. You should write abook with that title. Don't do186902:03:18,360 --> 02:03:25,530that bad. I did have the titleof your podcast. Do you mind187002:03:25,530 --> 02:03:29,760coming in your transcriptcontain comp see how fast how187102:03:29,760 --> 02:03:30,630much advertising187202:03:32,280 --> 02:03:35,820Adam Curry: I hear you can'teven like basketball. Podcasts187302:03:35,850 --> 02:03:39,840are even get excluded becauseall these stupid companies see187402:03:39,840 --> 02:03:43,350the word shot like oh no, no,no, we can't that's always187502:03:43,350 --> 02:03:46,620talking about guns can't dothat. Ellen see187602:03:46,620 --> 02:03:49,920Dave Jones: Paul 2345 throughfountain is great episode agreed187702:03:49,920 --> 02:03:53,070that YouTube Google has nointent is no interest in187802:03:53,070 --> 02:03:55,830promoting podcasting as its ownmedium and your comments on art187902:03:55,830 --> 02:03:59,190versus AI are valid rather thanspiritual technology. I define188002:03:59,190 --> 02:04:00,180it as alchemy.188102:04:00,600 --> 02:04:06,270Adam Curry: You know Alan seePaul, I met him at at the god188202:04:06,270 --> 02:04:12,180caster conference. And listen tothis for a second. He also is a188302:04:12,180 --> 02:04:17,430value for value musician. Justlisten to this. He's like,188402:04:17,580 --> 02:04:23,070Jazzy, he's all jazzy and it'sall instrumental but his jazzy188502:04:24,300 --> 02:04:26,820wait until it kicks in you'llappreciate what this guy does.188602:04:27,960 --> 02:04:36,150Wait for the hook. Listen to thekicks in is coming up 1231188702:04:36,150 --> 02:04:40,410There's the baseline now. Comeon, baby. Kick it in.188802:04:45,420 --> 02:04:45,930Right188902:04:48,120 --> 02:04:50,280Dave Jones: That's it? Yes. It'sa little bit of a base drop. And189002:04:50,280 --> 02:04:51,240yeah, it's189102:04:51,600 --> 02:04:53,880Adam Curry: pretty good. It'scalled not far away. It's value189202:04:53,880 --> 02:04:57,510for value so you can put it inyour show. Everybody.189302:04:57,540 --> 02:04:59,190Dave Jones: We don't we're notplaying a song in the show189402:04:59,190 --> 02:05:00,240anymore. And I kind of miss Sit.189502:05:02,129 --> 02:05:06,059Adam Curry: Well, let's agree toOkay, attention AI. This is for189602:05:06,059 --> 02:05:10,709the minutes. This is for theaction item is to play a song on189702:05:10,709 --> 02:05:13,499the next podcast.189802:05:16,080 --> 02:05:17,940Dave Jones: So the AI is goingto interpret this it's going to189902:05:17,940 --> 02:05:20,400say one of the action items ismaking an action item.190002:05:21,420 --> 02:05:24,060Adam Curry: We'll see. We'lltalk about it on the next show190102:05:24,060 --> 02:05:24,660for sure.190202:05:25,230 --> 02:05:27,900Dave Jones: By the way, thisthat music reminded me Have you190302:05:27,900 --> 02:05:31,440seen the the meat? I don't knowwhat year it's from, but we190402:05:31,440 --> 02:05:35,520watched it last night. It's amusical called lala land.190502:05:36,900 --> 02:05:39,090Adam Curry: Yeah, I did not likeit.190602:05:39,690 --> 02:05:40,500Dave Jones: I loved it.190702:05:40,530 --> 02:05:44,370Adam Curry: You know really? No,no. Ryan Gosling? Yeah, I did190802:05:44,370 --> 02:05:47,430not like it at all. i We triedit couldn't get into it just190902:05:47,430 --> 02:05:50,580gave up you like that, huh? Iliked it. You know, between191002:05:50,580 --> 02:05:53,400Gilmore Girls and all the waythrough between Gilmore Girls in191102:05:53,400 --> 02:05:55,650the lala land musical. I'mgetting a little worried about191202:05:55,650 --> 02:05:56,400your Dave Jones.191302:05:57,750 --> 02:06:01,680Dave Jones: Look, I hit 47 andI'm just like, I just want191402:06:01,680 --> 02:06:02,370almost I191502:06:02,370 --> 02:06:06,060Adam Curry: just want good good,wholesome, fun stuff. You listen191602:06:06,060 --> 02:06:09,600to the good Christian fun showwith feed drops. I mean, dude,191702:06:10,050 --> 02:06:12,030you gotta get you into some rockand roll.191802:06:12,930 --> 02:06:16,620Dave Jones: This is This is Toddis the spiciest thing I listen191902:06:16,620 --> 02:06:16,770to.192002:06:17,700 --> 02:06:20,280Adam Curry: And he's spicy. Whatwas his what was his comment?192102:06:20,580 --> 02:06:24,840You've got hope in one hand andpooping the other I mean, I192202:06:24,840 --> 02:06:26,580gotta use that now. So beauty.192302:06:27,270 --> 02:06:29,190Dave Jones: Open one handpooping the other sandwich hand192402:06:29,190 --> 02:06:37,020fills up first. Yeah, he's fromthe Navy. Dave Jackson 7777192502:06:37,710 --> 02:06:38,190automatic.192602:06:38,220 --> 02:06:42,930Adam Curry: Where's my striperboost. Second. I can't believe I192702:06:44,070 --> 02:06:49,230hear this striper boost. striperboasts192802:06:49,950 --> 02:06:54,630Dave Jones: a says standingovation. Well done boys. Thanks.192902:06:54,900 --> 02:06:58,290Now now this is interestingthough. Cast ematic is where193002:06:58,290 --> 02:07:04,380this boost came from and it hasa reply address in it. Oh, very193102:07:04,380 --> 02:07:07,680cool can boost back to castthematic addresses.193202:07:08,100 --> 02:07:08,730Adam Curry: I love that he193302:07:08,730 --> 02:07:11,610Dave Jones: tells me that it'sinto cast meta uses Alby so193402:07:11,610 --> 02:07:13,590anybody using Albie should beable to193502:07:13,590 --> 02:07:16,200Adam Curry: do let me tell youEric P P. I know you're busy193602:07:16,200 --> 02:07:22,590man. Bro, if I could get a replybutton for boosts I would be193702:07:22,590 --> 02:07:27,870replying all the time. By lovethat idea. Healthy unhealthy,193802:07:27,870 --> 02:07:30,990Pat obviously. What? How coolwould that be?193902:07:32,370 --> 02:07:33,690Dave Jones: He's in the chat.Yes.194002:07:33,720 --> 02:07:38,160Adam Curry: Yes. Man a fewwords. That's right. Yes, action194102:07:38,160 --> 02:07:43,200item Eric TP put reply in thehelipad. Oh,194202:07:43,200 --> 02:07:45,030Dave Jones: he's he's working.He says I'm bashing my head194302:07:45,030 --> 02:07:46,020against that code. Okay,194402:07:46,050 --> 02:07:49,590Adam Curry: action items bashhead against the code. No.194502:07:49,830 --> 02:07:53,100Dave Jones: Ai removed thataction item. Let's see. You've194602:07:53,100 --> 02:07:58,020got to have friends and Belaythat order. Okay, here we go.194702:07:58,050 --> 02:08:02,760Blueberry 33 333 through. BlueCLI says channel enter trailer194802:08:02,760 --> 02:08:07,020Narrator coming sunday liveafter no agenda. January 7 and194902:08:07,020 --> 02:08:10,380the resurrection battle of thedouchebags season two, episode195002:08:10,380 --> 02:08:13,110one. Here we go again. reverb.Reverb reverb.195102:08:13,170 --> 02:08:17,070Adam Curry: Wow. I can't waitfor that. I'll I'll be around.195202:08:17,070 --> 02:08:17,850I'll listen to it.195302:08:21,030 --> 02:08:23,550Dave Jones: Okay, that's, that'sit. We've literally got four195402:08:23,550 --> 02:08:25,980boosts that other than the onesthat arrived before the show.195502:08:26,040 --> 02:08:27,240And well,195602:08:27,720 --> 02:08:30,300Adam Curry: the comics orblogger has failed, I think.195702:08:31,890 --> 02:08:36,630Dave Jones: Yeah, it failed tous. The other splits work. Yeah.195802:08:36,720 --> 02:08:39,750Let me see if I can pull up hishe sent. Yeah,195902:08:39,750 --> 02:08:44,160Adam Curry: it was interesting.Because even credit because I'm196002:08:44,160 --> 02:08:48,000getting other phone booths. I'mnot sure why it failed. Then it196102:08:48,000 --> 02:08:53,340did go and check. And we haveno, I think fountain is now196202:08:53,340 --> 02:08:57,030completely on Zebedee. So theyprobably close out the channel196302:08:57,030 --> 02:09:00,030to us. And I said, Hey, couldyou open one and Oscar said he196402:09:00,030 --> 02:09:03,870would ask Zebedee to open achannel to us. So it could have196502:09:03,870 --> 02:09:08,070been a routing issue. I'm notsure I mean, the fountain should196602:09:08,070 --> 02:09:11,610definitely have a channel opento the index.196702:09:12,420 --> 02:09:14,370Dave Jones: Oh for sure isn'there like if they don't that's a196802:09:14,370 --> 02:09:15,720real problem. We're like we'relike196902:09:15,720 --> 02:09:19,080Adam Curry: the routing Mecca.And we have you know, our fees197002:09:19,080 --> 02:09:20,400are almost zero.197102:09:21,450 --> 02:09:27,690Dave Jones: Well, yeah, I'mlooking at he CSB in his197202:09:27,690 --> 02:09:32,430screenshot, blanked out hismessage. Did you get it on the197302:09:32,490 --> 02:09:32,910no197402:09:32,910 --> 02:09:36,060Adam Curry: because believe itor not, my fiber went down I197502:09:36,060 --> 02:09:40,200guess last night, around thetime probably around midnight or197602:09:40,200 --> 02:09:42,780something and I didn't noticethat it was down until this197702:09:42,780 --> 02:09:47,310morning. Now the beautiful thingabout great and not great they197802:09:47,340 --> 02:09:52,710it's almost perfect. I'vestarted nine is my node. When if197902:09:52,710 --> 02:09:56,310you unplug the ethernet and Iwish it would be if there's no198002:09:56,310 --> 02:09:58,530internet connection on theEthernet but if you unplug the198102:09:58,530 --> 02:10:02,310ethernet, it immediately goestowards a known Wi Fi network.198202:10:02,790 --> 02:10:08,190And I have a, I have a backupsystem that it then switches198302:10:08,190 --> 02:10:10,830over to so the minute thathappened I just made I noticed198402:10:10,830 --> 02:10:14,400that I pulled out the Ethernetand it switched it over and my198502:10:14,400 --> 02:10:16,980node came right back up,unfortunately doesn't do that.198602:10:16,980 --> 02:10:20,400When, when there's when theconnectivity is lost, you know,198702:10:20,400 --> 02:10:23,190if it still sees packets fromthe router or whatever it198802:10:23,190 --> 02:10:26,970doesn't, it doesn't fail over.So anyway, so I don't miss the198902:10:26,970 --> 02:10:30,030eight hours worth of payments.Okay,199002:10:30,030 --> 02:10:32,400Dave Jones: well, I got I wasable to it did go through the199102:10:32,400 --> 02:10:36,570fountain boost bot, so I'm ableto see him as a comment. So199202:10:37,590 --> 02:10:39,060Adam Curry: everything no yeah,of course. Yeah.199302:10:39,600 --> 02:10:42,810Dave Jones: I want to give himcredit. 33,000 SATs, says Howdy,199402:10:42,810 --> 02:10:45,450David Adam. Hey there dearpodcast listeners, I'd like to199502:10:45,450 --> 02:10:48,060invite you to check out andsubscribe to my blog, which199602:10:48,060 --> 02:10:51,720features some hilariouscartoons, just head over to www199702:10:51,720 --> 02:10:56,340dot CSB dot lol and get ready tolaugh yo Yos ESP199802:10:56,400 --> 02:11:00,120Adam Curry: and I just want toremind CSB that sometimes his199902:11:00,870 --> 02:11:03,480his command of the Englishlanguage comes across as a200002:11:03,480 --> 02:11:08,400little bit harsh desert whenyou're criticizing the app200102:11:08,400 --> 02:11:12,510developers, I mean, I've knownhim longer than I've known to200202:11:12,510 --> 02:11:18,060have my wives you come across asa dick's have just you know,200302:11:18,090 --> 02:11:21,630throw you know, when when youwrite something that's feedback,200402:11:21,870 --> 02:11:26,490run it through chat GPT four,and say please make this sound200502:11:26,490 --> 02:11:30,930friendly. Because that that'sactually a good idea. I should200602:11:30,930 --> 02:11:31,920probably do that.200702:11:32,400 --> 02:11:35,130Dave Jones: Run it through thereand then say, Do I sound like a200802:11:35,130 --> 02:11:36,180dick? No,200902:11:36,180 --> 02:11:39,900Adam Curry: no, no, no, justhold on a second. So this since201002:11:39,900 --> 02:11:43,920you have a little time. Let melet me just move just we can try201102:11:43,920 --> 02:11:47,910it right now. I don't have chatGPT four, but I have 3.5 but201202:11:47,910 --> 02:11:54,330just find his his post where itwas very mean. He was mean to201302:11:54,330 --> 02:12:00,210Sam he was mean to Sam actually.Okay, he says Sam Sethi. I've201402:12:00,210 --> 02:12:04,080tried your true fans web app butit's totally useless and bad. No201502:12:04,080 --> 02:12:06,780indication which splits failedand which succeeded I tested on201602:12:06,780 --> 02:12:09,240my doorman podcast andwhispering was not arriving in201702:12:09,240 --> 02:12:12,810full despite appearing inhistory a scent pad usability on201802:12:12,810 --> 02:12:16,320iPhone, so no thanks. If youwill implement in future showing201902:12:16,320 --> 02:12:19,080in history, the splits and theirstatus for each pen Bookstagram202002:12:19,230 --> 02:12:22,470then let me know I might take alook again. So let's copy that.202102:12:25,560 --> 02:12:30,360Okay, let's see what AI does.It's worth it. Okay. Make this202202:12:30,420 --> 02:12:36,870message sound friendly. Okay,paste. See what happens. See202302:12:36,870 --> 02:12:40,620what it does? Hey, there, I gaveyour true fans webapp a shot,202402:12:40,770 --> 02:12:43,860but I encountered a fewchallenges. It was a bit tricky202502:12:43,860 --> 02:12:46,290to figure out which splitsfailed and which one succeeded?202602:12:46,410 --> 02:12:48,930I tested it on my inactivepodcast I noticed that booster202702:12:48,930 --> 02:12:51,720grams weren't arriving in fulleven though they showed up in202802:12:51,720 --> 02:12:55,500history ascend. The usability ofmy iPhone wasn't the best so for202902:12:55,500 --> 02:12:58,590now I'll pass however, if youconsider implementing a feature203002:12:58,590 --> 02:13:00,810to show the splits and theirstatus in the history recent203102:13:00,810 --> 02:13:03,690Bookstagram in the future I'd beinterested in giving another try203202:13:03,840 --> 02:13:08,850let me know if that's in theworks. Smile emoji. Wow. Wow.203302:13:09,240 --> 02:13:09,870Wow, can203402:13:09,870 --> 02:13:13,800Dave Jones: we can we put thissomehow into podcast index dot203502:13:13,800 --> 02:13:19,230social, so that when CSB postsand it detects negativity it203602:13:19,230 --> 02:13:25,500will automatically do this butonly for us him it still shows203702:13:25,500 --> 02:13:25,650up203802:13:27,330 --> 02:13:32,250Adam Curry: that's the new Bozofilter is you see it as your own203902:13:32,250 --> 02:13:35,640nasty gram but it shows up foreverybody else in a nice way204002:13:35,670 --> 02:13:41,370that's a knob there's a use ofAI I actually support hold on so204102:13:41,400 --> 02:13:50,460I'm gonna I'm going to ask himright now friend friend defied204202:13:50,550 --> 02:13:59,880with chat GPT paste to find withdoesn't work because it's too204302:13:59,880 --> 02:14:02,670long for the I don't have enoughno for the204402:14:04,140 --> 02:14:06,660Dave Jones: mean like this isthis is a good because what will204502:14:06,660 --> 02:14:10,800happen is just like this thisapp is crap this thing is worse204602:14:10,800 --> 02:14:14,160piece of effing junk I've everseen and what you get back from204702:14:14,160 --> 02:14:17,760the developers like littlehearts they're like some kind204802:14:18,990 --> 02:14:20,790Adam Curry: what was the otherone? He said he said something204902:14:20,790 --> 02:14:22,260to Oscar Mayer This is funny205002:14:27,090 --> 02:14:28,650Dave Jones: I think that was theone about the channel or205102:14:28,650 --> 02:14:30,930something. Or no, no, I knowwhat you're talking about is205202:14:30,960 --> 02:14:34,080that the app gets broken.205302:14:34,440 --> 02:14:37,710Adam Curry: Yeah, I wish I couldfind that one. I was hilarious.205402:14:40,110 --> 02:14:43,620I can't find it that fast.Anyway, that's that's that or205502:14:43,620 --> 02:14:47,910you know be could also couldalso be it could be just on the205602:14:47,910 --> 02:14:52,920receiving side. You could justturn on make all posts friendly.205702:14:54,720 --> 02:14:57,930Dave Jones: Yeah. You don't havea choice. Everything gets friend205802:14:57,930 --> 02:14:58,830deferred. Yeah,205902:14:58,860 --> 02:15:00,900Adam Curry: we're not done withthat. Now. That's something that206002:15:00,900 --> 02:15:05,280I would be okay with I wouldn'tbe fine with it oh here it is206102:15:06,000 --> 02:15:09,390understandable way this was thedeplorable that's what it was it206202:15:09,390 --> 02:15:16,830was the deplorable yes anddeplorable that get Alby is not206302:15:16,830 --> 02:15:20,280offering okay I'm justdeplorable that get Alby is not206402:15:20,280 --> 02:15:25,920offering details in dashboardand an API message sender and206502:15:26,010 --> 02:15:29,400message texts are calling ablah, blah blah. was a different206602:15:29,400 --> 02:15:34,380post about deplorable. Anyway, Idon't I don't remember exactly206702:15:34,380 --> 02:15:35,040where it was.206802:15:35,100 --> 02:15:37,920Dave Jones: Let's see ESPYS he'san AI guy he can he can he can206902:15:37,920 --> 02:15:38,910figure it out. Yes.207002:15:40,260 --> 02:15:42,030Adam Curry: That's the way towrite his own script. That's the207102:15:42,030 --> 02:15:44,280way to go. I think that thatwill be perfect. It's much207202:15:44,280 --> 02:15:46,110better, much better that we door do that207302:15:46,110 --> 02:15:48,930Dave Jones: thing where you knowhow you know sometimes they have207402:15:48,930 --> 02:15:52,410those bots where you can saywhere you can tag somebody else207502:15:52,410 --> 02:15:54,870in the post and the bot willgrab that post and do something207602:15:54,870 --> 02:15:58,920with it. Yes, yeah. Friend, youcan you see a nasty post from207702:15:58,920 --> 02:16:01,470somebody. You can say friend tofight you can send it to the207802:16:01,470 --> 02:16:04,860friend of five baht and it'llcome back with the nice version.207902:16:07,170 --> 02:16:12,690monthlies. Oh, yeah, we got pot,Brendan a pod page. $25. Thank208002:16:12,690 --> 02:16:16,830you, Brandon. Over there, Paige.Appreciate that. Jesse $110.208102:16:17,310 --> 02:16:22,500Joseph maraca $5 mo EmilioKendall Molina, $4, Mark, gram208202:16:22,500 --> 02:16:25,350$1 and new media $1. Thank youguys.208302:16:26,700 --> 02:16:29,040Adam Curry: Thank you all verymuch value for value. We've been208402:16:29,040 --> 02:16:31,650talking about it throughout thewhole podcast, it is a real208502:16:31,650 --> 02:16:36,390thing. It does work. It's keptthis entire this community208602:16:36,390 --> 02:16:41,460really together. We appreciatethe value you send to the show208702:16:41,460 --> 02:16:45,000so much. You can go to podcastindex.org. Down at the bottom208802:16:45,000 --> 02:16:48,900you'll see two red donatebuttons. One is for your Fiat208902:16:48,900 --> 02:16:54,150fun coupons, as you heard weabsolutely accept Paypal. And209002:16:54,150 --> 02:16:57,150the other one is for tally coinfor all that on chain Bitcoin209102:16:57,150 --> 02:17:00,390everyone's going to send us andthe last payment was October 27209202:17:00,390 --> 02:17:03,810of 2023. So it doesn't seem tobe working that well. However,209302:17:03,960 --> 02:17:07,920get a modern podcast app atpodcast apps.com Fill up your209402:17:07,920 --> 02:17:11,190wallet boost us boots to boostto your heart's content. We read209502:17:11,190 --> 02:17:14,430all the messages that you heard.And you contribute back to the209602:17:14,430 --> 02:17:16,650show in two ways. One bysupporting the whole project209702:17:16,650 --> 02:17:20,280supporting the podcast. And andby supporting us with some with209802:17:20,280 --> 02:17:23,820some nice words ofencouragement. We hope we hope209902:17:24,750 --> 02:17:26,790Dave Jones: and if you don't wewill turn them into nice words.210002:17:26,820 --> 02:17:27,300Yes. With210102:17:27,330 --> 02:17:31,350Adam Curry: with Chad GPT.Exactly. Yes. Wow. Okay, well,210202:17:31,380 --> 02:17:34,020what are we got? Wow. 217 Thisis long.210302:17:34,980 --> 02:17:35,940Dave Jones: Oh, whoa, we're, uh,210402:17:36,510 --> 02:17:38,940Adam Curry: we're way over.We're way over. Alright. I will210502:17:38,970 --> 02:17:42,360get the action items from the AIlater and I'll I'll I'll have210602:17:42,360 --> 02:17:43,590those ready for the next show.210702:17:44,340 --> 02:17:47,580Dave Jones: I will predict andmake a bold prediction that as210802:17:47,580 --> 02:17:49,980of next week, none of theseaction items will be done.210902:17:50,010 --> 02:17:50,610Exactly.211002:17:51,629 --> 02:17:53,459Adam Curry: Hey, brother, haveyourself a great weekend. Dave.211102:17:54,629 --> 02:17:57,569Everybody else in the boardroom.Have a great weekend. We'll talk211202:17:57,569 --> 02:17:58,919to you next week here onpodcast.211302:18:15,539 --> 02:18:19,469Unknown: You have been listeningto podcasting 2.0 to visit211402:18:19,469 --> 02:18:22,859podcast index.org. For moreinformation,211502:18:23,310 --> 02:18:27,210Adam Curry: go podcast. Holy cow