Episode 160: Forced Choice

100:00:00,000 --> 00:00:05,010Adam Curry: Oh, podcasting 2.0for December 22 2023, episode200:00:05,010 --> 00:00:11,700160/4 choice. Well hello Betterlate than never. Hello,300:00:11,700 --> 00:00:15,510everybody. It's Tim once againfor podcasting, the official400:00:16,140 --> 00:00:19,800board meeting of everythinggoing on a podcast today and in500:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,130the future we are in fact, theonly boardroom that has red600:00:23,130 --> 00:00:27,090velvet beanbags after dark.Everything happened at podcast700:00:27,090 --> 00:00:31,260index.org The namespace all thegoings on at podcast index dot800:00:31,260 --> 00:00:33,990social. I'm Adam curry here inthe heart of the Texas Hill900:00:33,990 --> 00:00:37,740Country and in Alabama. The manwho's got a big stream deck and1000:00:37,740 --> 00:00:40,620knows how to use it. Say helloto my friend on the other end1100:00:40,620 --> 00:00:45,330ladies and gentlemen, Mr. Jones.1200:00:46,140 --> 00:00:48,810Dave Jones: Oh, I've got thesweetest rig. Do1300:00:50,430 --> 00:00:54,090Adam Curry: you have thesweetest rig? Yes, your rig is1400:00:54,090 --> 00:00:55,770so sweet. That1500:00:56,370 --> 00:01:00,630Dave Jones: started the streamthe stream deck courtesy of Adam1600:01:00,660 --> 00:01:04,950curry Christmas present app soright in front of the road1700:01:04,950 --> 00:01:10,110caster duo, which now the roadcaster do is elevated on on a1800:01:10,110 --> 00:01:11,370stand. Ooh,1900:01:11,370 --> 00:01:13,440Adam Curry: it's like it's gothis own special little spot.2000:01:13,440 --> 00:01:17,400Well, hold on. I have a I havesome special here on my own2100:01:17,400 --> 00:01:22,620stream deck. That's right,everybody. Welcome. board room2200:01:22,620 --> 00:01:29,370after dark. That's right, baby.Enjoy our red velvet beanbags2300:01:29,370 --> 00:01:32,340over the air. We got Davidsitting down there with his big2400:01:32,340 --> 00:01:38,040stream deck. And down under. Youknow he's upside down. Ladies2500:01:38,040 --> 00:01:41,370and gentlemen say hello to ourfriend on the way of the end.2600:01:41,370 --> 00:01:42,480Mr. Kyron down.2700:01:43,140 --> 00:01:45,030Kyrin Down: Hey, I'm buzzing2800:01:46,620 --> 00:01:48,360Adam Curry: you're buzzingyou've got you got to chill,2900:01:48,360 --> 00:01:51,270man. You're in the boardroomafter dark. It's like we got the3000:01:51,270 --> 00:01:56,010porn music going. It's like, youknow. Challenge Challenge3100:01:56,010 --> 00:01:56,820downtown.3200:01:57,420 --> 00:01:59,940Dave Jones: I'm so happy rightnow. I was hoping that you would3300:01:59,940 --> 00:02:03,540get some after dark music. Ihear bones.3400:02:05,250 --> 00:02:08,850Adam Curry: And I see theboardroom is Hello boardroom.3500:02:08,880 --> 00:02:11,940That's right. Steven be kickingback. That's right, man. That's3600:02:11,940 --> 00:02:13,800right. Want to talk? Way to go?3700:02:16,320 --> 00:02:19,140Dave Jones: How hard is it inAustralia current is it 10003800:02:19,140 --> 00:02:19,710degrees.3900:02:20,100 --> 00:02:22,320Kyrin Down: At this very moment.It's not too bad. We've had a4000:02:22,320 --> 00:02:26,130bit of rain coming. So it's Idon't know, like high 20.4100:02:26,130 --> 00:02:28,110Something like that. Are youwearing? I don't know what4200:02:28,110 --> 00:02:28,830that's Fahrenheit.4300:02:28,890 --> 00:02:30,990Adam Curry: Are you embraceVegas or where are you African?4400:02:31,590 --> 00:02:34,110Kyrin Down: I'm definitelyembrace Vegas. Yes. Yeah. So4500:02:34,110 --> 00:02:37,320Adam Curry: he is a heatwavethere. Yeah, yeah. I4600:02:37,320 --> 00:02:39,870Kyrin Down: mean, it definitelywas feeling a bit it's mostly4700:02:39,870 --> 00:02:41,760muggy. It's just the thehumidity.4800:02:42,540 --> 00:02:45,300Adam Curry: Weird, man. It'slike, Christmas must just be4900:02:45,300 --> 00:02:46,170messed up.5000:02:47,940 --> 00:02:50,700Kyrin Down: I've never I'venever had a white Christmas or a5100:02:50,700 --> 00:02:55,830cold Christmas. I've always beenin a I was in Colombia for one5200:02:55,830 --> 00:02:57,990of them, which was just motto.Yeah.5300:02:57,990 --> 00:03:00,270Adam Curry: Hear about thosewhite Christmases in Colombia?5400:03:00,660 --> 00:03:02,100Yeah.5500:03:03,300 --> 00:03:07,980Kyrin Down: It actually tookabout four hours from me landing5600:03:07,980 --> 00:03:13,110there to me being offeredcocaine. So it was a little5700:03:13,110 --> 00:03:13,620slow.5800:03:15,300 --> 00:03:16,680Adam Curry: You must not havelooked the part.5900:03:19,620 --> 00:03:22,320Dave Jones: Oh, yeah, that's thething. Cotton Gin. 20 b 206000:03:22,320 --> 00:03:27,600degrees C is 68 Fahrenheit. Andthe screwy thing about about6100:03:27,630 --> 00:03:32,580centigrade is that like everypoint one goes up, like 50006200:03:32,580 --> 00:03:36,750degrees. So like, when you gofrom 20 to like, 20.8 year it6300:03:36,750 --> 00:03:38,550like, you know, you're boilingwater.6400:03:39,810 --> 00:03:41,730Kyrin Down: It's confusing. I'dlike to Kelvin when we're in6500:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,050high school doing6600:03:46,710 --> 00:03:48,870Dave Jones: hanging out insidestores. Are you Yes.6700:03:51,120 --> 00:03:53,130Adam Curry: This is our yearend. Are we going to do one more6800:03:53,130 --> 00:03:56,400before before the end of theyear? Dave? I mean, we're done.6900:03:56,400 --> 00:03:58,980We're not gonna do one next nextFriday. What is next Friday.7000:04:00,360 --> 00:04:00,990Dave Jones: Good with next?7100:04:01,140 --> 00:04:03,180Adam Curry: Why are we doing thespecialist thing with chyron7200:04:03,210 --> 00:04:04,350right now why are we doing7300:04:04,350 --> 00:04:06,720Dave Jones: this? BecauseKaren's Great. Okay.7400:04:08,280 --> 00:04:11,940Adam Curry: Yes, Karen. Karenbore you by by any chance able7500:04:11,940 --> 00:04:16,590to watch the V four V Liveconcert? Down Under?7600:04:17,039 --> 00:04:21,539Kyrin Down: Yes and no. So Icaught the firt the first one7700:04:21,539 --> 00:04:24,749the Bitcoin the one where it waswhere it was just Ainsley. So7800:04:24,749 --> 00:04:27,629yeah, definitely was able toparticipate in that, funnily7900:04:27,629 --> 00:04:32,039enough, right at this moment Ihad organized to chat with so TJ8000:04:32,039 --> 00:04:36,689the raffle Oh, sorry, for thisexact time. And then you guys8100:04:36,989 --> 00:04:39,959message so I was like, oh, TJ Doyou mind putting it a day8200:04:39,959 --> 00:04:40,349earlier?8300:04:40,530 --> 00:04:42,540Dave Jones: Oh, we bought TJ8400:04:44,280 --> 00:04:46,950Kyrin Down: Day a day earlier sowe were actually recording that8500:04:47,010 --> 00:04:49,950as a Italy's second one wasgoing on. So no, I didn't. I8600:04:49,950 --> 00:04:50,130didn't8700:04:50,130 --> 00:04:54,270Adam Curry: catch the so so sir.TJ the raffle is going to be on8800:04:54,780 --> 00:04:58,680the mere mortals podcast.Correct? Yeah. Nice. I love that8900:04:58,680 --> 00:05:00,720guy. I don't even know what itlooks like. I love that whole9000:05:00,720 --> 00:05:02,160family. There's a lot of them.9100:05:02,850 --> 00:05:04,170Kyrin Down: There's so many like9200:05:04,170 --> 00:05:07,260Adam Curry: a million doorbells.That's, there's so I got an9300:05:07,260 --> 00:05:11,790email from Tom door from like,who is Tom? Like? I know, like9400:05:11,790 --> 00:05:16,650Curtis. I know TJ, then youknow, what's the what's the dog?9500:05:16,980 --> 00:05:23,280What's the kid? The kids name? Jdog J dog J dog? Yeah. Well,9600:05:23,310 --> 00:05:23,940Dave9700:05:23,940 --> 00:05:27,060Dave Jones: Willis always says,when somebody has a whole ton of9800:05:27,060 --> 00:05:30,450kids, like, they must think thatthey're really like, the world9900:05:30,450 --> 00:05:32,310needs a lot of them orsomething. They must think10000:05:32,310 --> 00:05:34,620they're really important. Well,they10100:05:34,620 --> 00:05:37,230Kyrin Down: did a really good,you know, when you list off,10200:05:37,260 --> 00:05:40,410like the alphabet alphabet asfast as you can. ABCDEFG. He did10300:05:40,410 --> 00:05:42,900that with all the names of hissiblings, and it took like, a10400:05:43,110 --> 00:05:43,380minute.10500:05:46,110 --> 00:05:48,330Adam Curry: Dave, were you ableto catch any of the live shows?10600:05:49,530 --> 00:05:53,640Dave Jones: Yes, I did not. Sothe first the first one was that10700:05:53,640 --> 00:05:57,810was the one from the meetupWednesday night. Yeah. Yeah. So10800:05:57,810 --> 00:06:02,070the for the first one, we wereat the movies with friends. And10900:06:02,070 --> 00:06:08,460I had a fired up podcast guruchecked in like about, I don't11000:06:08,460 --> 00:06:11,700know, about 10 minutes into themovie and looked at it and made11100:06:11,700 --> 00:06:14,820sure that I was getting a videostream set must set to 1000 per11200:06:14,820 --> 00:06:21,420minute and just set it. Cool. Sojust want to stream sets. I'm11300:06:21,420 --> 00:06:23,850not gonna be able to watch it.But then I saw some of last11400:06:23,850 --> 00:06:27,990night's and it was killer man.It just seemed to be working on11500:06:27,990 --> 00:06:31,650all the apps perfectly. I was sohappy.11600:06:32,820 --> 00:06:38,460Adam Curry: I mean, I was onboth of them. There was a back11700:06:38,460 --> 00:06:43,470channel telegram group. It waskind of like, like David in the11800:06:43,470 --> 00:06:48,690cave with 400 and Algenol. Youknow, getting ready prepping for11900:06:48,690 --> 00:06:51,390the prepping to go to waragainst King Saul.12000:06:52,890 --> 00:06:55,140Dave Jones: lathering up theslings? Yes,12100:06:55,170 --> 00:07:04,590Adam Curry: it was. It was anunbelievable show of camaraderie12200:07:04,590 --> 00:07:11,010solidarity. Like it took me backto the very first cyber casts I12300:07:11,010 --> 00:07:15,420did, which was not even a thingin 1996. And we did the Grammys,12400:07:15,660 --> 00:07:18,720and we brought in T one lineinto the Shrine Auditorium. No12500:07:18,720 --> 00:07:23,730one's ever heard of that. Beforethen, and oh, yeah, T one. Oh,12600:07:23,730 --> 00:07:27,720my God, that's fast. That'sbroadband. One and one megabit,12700:07:27,900 --> 00:07:33,990one megabit per second, but upand down both ways. And it was12800:07:33,990 --> 00:07:38,910just the, the amount ofcollaboration and we had, yeah,12900:07:38,910 --> 00:07:43,260we had Davi das in Lithuania,because he was I guess back13000:07:43,260 --> 00:07:49,410home, getting his visa sortedout or whatever. He was back. It13100:07:49,410 --> 00:07:52,740was He was up all night untilseven in the morning, both13200:07:52,740 --> 00:07:58,800nights. Sam Sethi was in the UK,Oscar marry. In the UK. We had13300:07:58,800 --> 00:08:03,330just it was like iron sharpensiron man, it was so beautiful.13400:08:03,540 --> 00:08:10,470How everybody was participating.And this you know, it's, it was13500:08:10,500 --> 00:08:15,870it was so much learning really,just to see how everything fit13600:08:15,870 --> 00:08:20,730together. I mean, we had a livewallet, switching the value13700:08:20,730 --> 00:08:24,300blocks we're switching which isbalanced between Ainsley and13800:08:24,300 --> 00:08:27,150just loud. I'm talking about thesecond night, you know, so the13900:08:27,180 --> 00:08:30,150so they both got SATs for eachother show but they you know,14000:08:30,150 --> 00:08:35,940the, the percentages differentwhoever was onstage, and it was14100:08:36,780 --> 00:08:40,890let me read because we had awhole portion postmortem today14200:08:40,950 --> 00:08:42,600in the same telegram group.14300:08:43,140 --> 00:08:45,750Dave Jones: And I feel left outof Philly and they what14400:08:47,460 --> 00:08:49,290Kyrin Down: was going on? Yeah,well,14500:08:49,290 --> 00:08:52,440Adam Curry: I mean, there waslinks all over the place. Yeah,14600:08:52,470 --> 00:08:57,090well, I felt like a blueberrywas on site. And, you know, we14700:08:57,090 --> 00:08:59,100finally got a picture ofblueberry. He's like, you know,14800:08:59,100 --> 00:09:05,940this like teenager and vans. SoI was rapping. So Julie14900:09:05,940 --> 00:09:10,890Costello, Ainsley, his mom. Shenow she, of course was all over15000:09:10,890 --> 00:09:15,540this thing. And I'll read youwhat what she wrote, I'll skip15100:09:15,540 --> 00:09:19,890over some of the numbers stuffbut she said, Okay. Thank you15200:09:19,890 --> 00:09:23,970all madly, deeply, sincerely,from the bottom of our Costello15300:09:23,970 --> 00:09:29,580hearts. A worldwide team ofragtag developers in both RSS15400:09:29,730 --> 00:09:33,060and noster with a touch offriendly competition, made the15500:09:33,060 --> 00:09:37,050dreams of one young art havemade the dreams of one young15600:09:37,050 --> 00:09:40,440artists come true. And maybejust set in motion a music15700:09:40,440 --> 00:09:44,940Revolution like we've never seenbefore. Filled with lots of15800:09:44,940 --> 00:09:48,330hustle heart and even a littlehumility. We all pulled off a15900:09:48,360 --> 00:09:51,510Christmas miracle inMinneapolis. I don't have the16000:09:51,510 --> 00:09:54,900visibility into jails numbers byno everyone will eagerly be16100:09:54,900 --> 00:10:01,050awaiting some early results. Andso she gave us a call She gave16200:10:01,050 --> 00:10:08,070us a total over between RSS andnoster. And I have I have a lot16300:10:08,070 --> 00:10:11,430of thoughts about Nasr afterthis evening so RSS night one16400:10:11,460 --> 00:10:20,7303,650,868 SATs, but austere3,000,262 953 SATs, there was a16500:10:21,060 --> 00:10:27,300Fiat donation which converted to443 970. So I just showed up16600:10:27,300 --> 00:10:35,790with that night one total7,357,791 SATs night to RSS16700:10:35,790 --> 00:10:43,7102,000,444 976 noster1,000,824 775. So for a grand16800:10:43,710 --> 00:10:48,480total then she what she did isshe, she added the nearly 400016900:10:48,480 --> 00:10:54,510SATs since Ainsley arrived onthe V four v scene in July, she17000:10:54,510 --> 00:11:02,640has made $6,742 compared to sothat since July, compared to17100:11:02,640 --> 00:11:10,800$750 on traditional streaming inover four years. And she says we17200:11:10,800 --> 00:11:13,500are incredibly grateful to eachand every person that stepped in17300:11:13,500 --> 00:11:16,650with their time, treasure andtalent to make V for V come to17400:11:16,650 --> 00:11:26,370life. And it it was I get chokedup about this stuff, I don't cry17500:11:26,400 --> 00:11:29,610a death or anything, but whenwhen there's accomplishment,17600:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,810that's when I get choked up. Andwhen I saw the value block with17700:11:33,840 --> 00:11:40,17011 or 12 splits, everybody wasincluded me Julie made sure that17800:11:40,260 --> 00:11:43,170everyone who was who was eventhough the apps of course have17900:11:43,170 --> 00:11:47,460their own, you know, fees or, orpercentages that they take on18000:11:47,460 --> 00:11:52,410streams and booths, she addedeverybody in and I was blown18100:11:52,410 --> 00:11:58,740away, like Kuno that video workseverywhere. I mean, this what's18200:11:58,740 --> 00:12:06,270what is going on video just kindof works. And it was it was it18300:12:06,270 --> 00:12:12,810was really so the noster sidehad tuned sir.io18400:12:13,470 --> 00:12:16,410Dave Jones: And yes, which Ididn't know was a thing until18500:12:17,040 --> 00:12:17,730yesterday.18600:12:17,910 --> 00:12:20,460Adam Curry: Now I like toanswer.io because it does18700:12:20,460 --> 00:12:25,050something that we on the RSSside do very poorly which is it18800:12:25,050 --> 00:12:28,770shows a running total of whatyou know there's apps with a18900:12:28,770 --> 00:12:31,890message so it just you know soyou're watching the video or19000:12:31,890 --> 00:12:34,590you'd be listening but watchingthe video in this case and you19100:12:34,590 --> 00:12:39,480see a very much like a GoFundMeyou know how GoFundMe if you go19200:12:39,480 --> 00:12:42,990there and you see just peoplewith donation amounts and19300:12:42,990 --> 00:12:45,270there's no other interactivityother than someone may be19400:12:45,270 --> 00:12:48,360responding to someone with theirwith their own zap. And there19500:12:48,360 --> 00:12:52,440were people coming in with100,000 sat booths there are19600:12:52,440 --> 00:12:57,270people coming in with in fact atone point let me just grab a19700:12:57,270 --> 00:13:01,800little audio here for a second Ihave they already put it up on19800:13:02,490 --> 00:13:09,300the archive Nice. Me go. So shewas doing live booster grams.19900:13:09,300 --> 00:13:11,970I'll just give an example here.Why are you changing over we had20000:13:11,970 --> 00:13:18,090some more booths come throughMarty Ben What is this? Is that20100:13:18,090 --> 00:13:19,890talking? I'm not sure 50,00020200:13:19,890 --> 00:13:20,670Unknown: SATs20300:13:22,830 --> 00:13:25,920Adam Curry: Okay, is that Buber?Yeah, thoughts on this20400:13:26,070 --> 00:13:30,750Unknown: 76 From NW throughfountain saying live love laugh20500:13:30,750 --> 00:13:38,970lightning. I need a bell outhere. Yeah. Reading this thing20600:13:38,970 --> 00:13:41,010is a red flag. Watch yourselves.20700:13:41,580 --> 00:13:43,740Adam Curry: Now let me give youthe last thing she had several20800:13:43,740 --> 00:13:47,010segments. We might we might havean announcement. Yeah, so this20900:13:47,010 --> 00:13:49,410was almost that she had one moresong. We're gonna do cherry on21000:13:49,410 --> 00:13:50,640top and then this happened.21100:13:51,510 --> 00:13:56,070Unknown: We've had just severalI sat here and boosted 50,00021200:13:56,070 --> 00:14:00,570sets for front of house. Thankyou. I appreciate you. We had21300:14:00,570 --> 00:14:05,43066 666 from Carolyn saying it'sa very exclusive dance party in21400:14:05,430 --> 00:14:06,480the kitchen right now.21500:14:09,480 --> 00:14:13,170So perfect. Here. There havebeen so many people who have21600:14:13,170 --> 00:14:17,880made this night possible. Andagain Oh wow.21700:14:18,270 --> 00:14:22,080Let me let me count the zeros itgoes Oh God. Okay, so21800:14:22,080 --> 00:14:30,24010203040506 zeros six zeros. Howbig of a boost is that? I think21900:14:30,240 --> 00:14:31,050that isn't million22000:14:35,040 --> 00:14:37,950Adam Curry: so anonymous came inwith a million sat boost at the22100:14:37,950 --> 00:14:42,540end there. I mean, it was an andthis is actually was this. I22200:14:42,540 --> 00:14:44,760think this might have been theMinneapolis night I can't22300:14:44,790 --> 00:14:49,620remember. I mean the meet upnight regardless this this is22400:14:49,620 --> 00:14:53,520kind of what it was. And thesecond night just loud came on22500:14:53,520 --> 00:14:57,240was great to see him. He lovedevery part every bit of the part22600:14:57,240 --> 00:15:03,450I expected total cuz, I mean,it's like James Brown and Lenny22700:15:03,450 --> 00:15:06,600Kravitz had a kid you know, theyhad an orgy and out pop this22800:15:06,600 --> 00:15:11,940guy. That was that was reallyfantastic. So value for value22900:15:11,940 --> 00:15:14,760really one because of course,there was a little bit of a, you23000:15:14,760 --> 00:15:17,520know, hey, he's, you know, theNasir guys are there's more23100:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,220coming in from Nasir. There'smore from RSS back and forth23200:15:20,220 --> 00:15:24,810back and forth. But obviouslythe whole concept and I think23300:15:24,810 --> 00:15:29,850between nostre and the value forvalue 2.0 teams if you want to23400:15:29,850 --> 00:15:34,410put it that way. You know, weboth love Bitcoin we both or at23500:15:34,410 --> 00:15:39,570least the the mechanism thatBitcoin provides. And of course23600:15:39,570 --> 00:15:45,000we love blue will have value forvalue. What was I think, really23700:15:45,000 --> 00:15:48,690interesting and a lot oflearning here. There was a whole23800:15:48,690 --> 00:15:53,610post more of the kind of justhappened today, as everyone was23900:15:53,640 --> 00:15:56,190just reviewing, and then peoplestarting to wake up all over the24000:15:56,190 --> 00:15:58,890place. And you know what, whatreally happened here? And there24100:15:58,890 --> 00:16:06,150was this question about how donoster and RSS work together?24200:16:06,180 --> 00:16:08,520You know, it's like, Should webe working together? Should we24300:16:08,520 --> 00:16:14,370not be working together? OscarMary jumped in with no pointer24400:16:14,370 --> 00:16:21,420to his noster nip 32 proposalabout connecting zaps to booths24500:16:21,420 --> 00:16:24,300and having these translationsfor the splits in the middle.24600:16:25,350 --> 00:16:30,300Which was really interesting.But, and this is, so I kinda24700:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,690want to take the discussionhere, because I've been thinking24800:16:33,690 --> 00:16:38,790so much about that, and commentsand booster grams and all these24900:16:38,790 --> 00:16:41,580things that we've been lookingat for the past couple of years.25000:16:42,060 --> 00:16:47,640And And considering that nostreright now is basically a social25100:16:47,640 --> 00:16:53,100network, although the noster wecall it a protocol, or what do25200:16:53,100 --> 00:16:57,090we call the protocol ispolitical. Yeah. Okay. Although25300:16:57,090 --> 00:17:00,060that can be used for many otherthings. It's a social network. I25400:17:00,060 --> 00:17:03,570mean, that's even in an OscarMary's proposal. It's a social,25500:17:03,600 --> 00:17:09,540it's a social network. And we'vebeen publishing what's the25600:17:09,540 --> 00:17:12,540actual tag called for comments,we call it social interact,25700:17:12,540 --> 00:17:16,380social interact. So we've beenpublishing social interact. And25800:17:16,380 --> 00:17:19,470you know, it's some of the appsshow it you can't, you can't25900:17:19,470 --> 00:17:23,070actually respond from the apps.And I've also been doing this26000:17:23,070 --> 00:17:28,350soul searching and analysis ofsocial media in my life and in26100:17:28,350 --> 00:17:32,580general. And so there's twoparts to it. One is I saw26200:17:32,580 --> 00:17:34,950Twitter from day one, when itstarted was supposed to be a26300:17:34,950 --> 00:17:38,280podcast company. And theylaunched but they launched as26400:17:38,280 --> 00:17:43,800this microblogging site, all theway through what it is today,26500:17:43,950 --> 00:17:47,130with a transfer of ownership.You know, once they got rid of26600:17:47,130 --> 00:17:50,370the fail whale, and all thatstuff, it became this, you know,26700:17:50,370 --> 00:17:54,150the social media. But there's achange of ownership and things26800:17:54,150 --> 00:17:57,480have changed. And I've also, youknow, six, almost seven years26900:17:57,480 --> 00:18:01,470ago, I think I started no agendasocial.com, which is a mastodon27000:18:01,470 --> 00:18:07,770social media site. And I've cometo the conclusion that without27100:18:10,890 --> 00:18:15,420an obvious adult in the room,someone with power, who or you27200:18:15,420 --> 00:18:19,050know, some rules andregulations, it all becomes27300:18:19,050 --> 00:18:24,900shit. It really does. It becomestoxic. It becomes it's just,27400:18:24,900 --> 00:18:29,580it's horrible. And, and noagenda social. This has27500:18:29,580 --> 00:18:32,550happened, you know, the I gaveup all control. And you know, we27600:18:32,550 --> 00:18:36,960have Aaron er, who's running it,he doesn't do anything. And I27700:18:36,960 --> 00:18:39,120can't post anything, becausepeople just know, they think27800:18:39,120 --> 00:18:43,860it's funny. And whatever. It'sall it's all. It's not really27900:18:43,860 --> 00:18:47,580nice. And it's the same as anycomments. And I kind of28000:18:47,580 --> 00:18:50,400understand Dave Winer. Neverwanting to have comments on his28100:18:50,400 --> 00:18:52,620blog, it would trigger him.28200:18:53,790 --> 00:18:56,700Dave Jones: Yeah, he would, hewould always he would do it for28300:18:56,700 --> 00:18:58,740a little while, and then turn itoff and say go right and go28400:18:58,740 --> 00:19:00,330write your own blog post. Right.28500:19:00,810 --> 00:19:03,870Adam Curry: And, and Twitter iskind of the same thing. I mean,28600:19:03,900 --> 00:19:07,140I, I've gone I've really made astudy of Twitter over the power28700:19:07,140 --> 00:19:11,850x over the past few days. And Isee people killing each other28800:19:11,850 --> 00:19:17,760shooting each other. Playingmean jokes, you know, trolling,28900:19:17,910 --> 00:19:25,860yelling, it's, it's shit. It'sunchecked. It's just shit. And I29000:19:25,860 --> 00:19:29,160don't want I've I'm reallystepping back from the comments29100:19:29,190 --> 00:19:33,510idea. You know, you have to havemoderation. There's all these29200:19:33,510 --> 00:19:37,980things that come into play. AndI think inherently the app29300:19:37,980 --> 00:19:41,580developers feel this and that'swhy they really haven't taken29400:19:41,580 --> 00:19:45,840that extra so we have it allthere. It can work. You know, we29500:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,450can blame act we can blameactivity pub, but it's not29600:19:48,450 --> 00:19:49,410activity pub.29700:19:50,070 --> 00:19:51,810Dave Jones: Well, I mean, it'salready it's already fully29800:19:51,810 --> 00:19:55,350operational own no agenda today.I mean, the pieces are there you29900:19:55,380 --> 00:19:59,520I mean, you have this experiencethat the it's it's not like30000:19:59,520 --> 00:20:01,200there's a lot ACC, at all30100:20:01,230 --> 00:20:06,810Adam Curry: correct. And soright now noster so the thinking30200:20:06,810 --> 00:20:12,990is, well, we Nasir can be thesocial piece to podcasting 2.030300:20:12,990 --> 00:20:15,330And I'm just going to say no,nothing should be the social30400:20:15,330 --> 00:20:19,200piece. Because right now nosteris everyone is kind of like30500:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,940minded. Everyone's in the samevibe. But go ahead and go on30600:20:23,940 --> 00:20:26,460there and talk about pod pingbuilt on hive and see what30700:20:26,460 --> 00:20:30,540happens. You will less fun. No,you won't last five minutes. So30800:20:30,750 --> 00:20:34,470as that grows, that too willbecome toxic unless they keep it30900:20:34,470 --> 00:20:36,720what it is. And that's verypossible that it just remains31000:20:36,720 --> 00:20:41,100that but that's not reallygrowth. And then so but what I31100:20:41,100 --> 00:20:46,320like is they've got wallets, youknow, the and the promotion they31200:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,640were doing for this concert wasspectacular. They were promoting31300:20:50,640 --> 00:20:54,510eight people were were you know,I don't know what the what you31400:20:54,510 --> 00:20:58,200call it there. But they werereposting you know, they were31500:20:58,530 --> 00:21:01,950jacking each other up. And ofcourse, with your nostril login,31600:21:01,950 --> 00:21:07,050you could go to tune sur.io Andyou know, the mechanism flowed31700:21:07,050 --> 00:21:09,990right over and people could zapnow there's no concept of31800:21:09,990 --> 00:21:15,570splits, which I think is aproblem. I've looked at I've31900:21:15,570 --> 00:21:24,630looked at at Oscars proposal.And its proposal includes a32000:21:25,110 --> 00:21:29,040payment verification, whichreferences a payment32100:21:29,040 --> 00:21:33,120verification by some semitrusted provider, like podcasts32200:21:33,120 --> 00:21:37,320index fountain, lb curio, casterpod verse, wave, Lake, rss.com,32300:21:37,320 --> 00:21:43,920etc. And I will say, No, that'sa very bad idea. But I've never32400:21:43,920 --> 00:21:47,430really heard of this proposal.So I'm just now diving into it,32500:21:48,120 --> 00:21:52,320that you don't want to be amoney forwarder at all, from a32600:21:52,320 --> 00:21:55,920regulation standpoint, and youdon't want to be Juden, you do32700:21:55,920 --> 00:21:59,670not want that, when a paymentfails, someone's going to blame32800:21:59,670 --> 00:22:03,300you. This is not the way to go.noster if they want to do32900:22:03,300 --> 00:22:06,480splits, they should figure outtheir own splits. What I liked a33000:22:06,480 --> 00:22:11,700lot was the experience theyshowed with with you know, their33100:22:11,700 --> 00:22:17,040version of booster grams on apage and man, do I want this for33200:22:17,040 --> 00:22:21,780our apps? I really think doingit, what fountain does when33300:22:21,810 --> 00:22:25,620you're able to comment on itdoesn't really matter to me. But33400:22:25,620 --> 00:22:28,770the idea that under as anepisode is playing, right? So33500:22:28,770 --> 00:22:32,430right now I've I've kind ofhijacked booster grams into33600:22:32,430 --> 00:22:37,890chapters, it's 5050 people whoare on apps where it shows up as33700:22:37,890 --> 00:22:40,440a as in the table of contentswhen it shouldn't, they're33800:22:40,440 --> 00:22:43,290pissed off. They're actuallypeople who see it, you know,33900:22:43,320 --> 00:22:45,840switch when they're driving inthe car and they get pissed off.34000:22:46,500 --> 00:22:50,010But the idea of surfacing boostsbooster grams, I think is a34100:22:50,010 --> 00:22:55,110very, very powerful idea. Ithink that that is what the34200:22:55,110 --> 00:22:59,130nostre people showed us howpowerful that is. Just like34300:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,760GoFundMe, you know, it's just alittle acknowledgement you'd put34400:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,730your little note in there. Andit just kind of scrolls off. And34500:23:05,730 --> 00:23:08,250I think we should really, and Ihave ideas about it, but I'll34600:23:08,250 --> 00:23:12,990stop talking. I think that wasvery, very powerful. And as far34700:23:12,990 --> 00:23:17,250as nostalgia and and andpodcasting 2.0 I think it's34800:23:17,250 --> 00:23:20,100great that we can do projectslike this together, I think it's34900:23:20,100 --> 00:23:23,760great for value for value. It'sgreat for the artist, if you35000:23:23,760 --> 00:23:28,050want to send booster grams, zapyour wallet, zap your, your35100:23:28,050 --> 00:23:31,770podcast app and send the boostergram, I don't see this, this35200:23:31,770 --> 00:23:35,760connection working at all, and Ithink it's unnecessary. And I35300:23:35,760 --> 00:23:41,400personally, I don't want socialsocial comments in my connected35400:23:41,400 --> 00:23:45,210to my podcast, I It's alltriggering me just thinking35500:23:45,210 --> 00:23:45,600about it.35600:23:47,850 --> 00:23:50,250Dave Jones: As it was, I thinkwe also need to make a35700:23:50,250 --> 00:23:56,700distinction between betweenthings between live things and35800:23:57,630 --> 00:24:02,490and podcasts. Yes. And totally,you know, because Because luck35900:24:02,610 --> 00:24:07,620live events like this, you willI think a lot of this has been36000:24:07,620 --> 00:24:12,720worked out slowly over time. Itout in other on other platforms.36100:24:13,080 --> 00:24:19,290So, like YouTube, let me like,you know, we can like YouTube or36200:24:19,290 --> 00:24:22,860not that it's they've, they'vebeen through a lot of these36300:24:22,860 --> 00:24:27,510things. As far as userexperience goes. The the user36400:24:27,510 --> 00:24:32,250experience of YouTube, is if youhave a live stream, there's36500:24:32,280 --> 00:24:36,300there's there's ephemeral chatin the live stream, and I love36600:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,090Adam Curry: chatting, I lovechat and no one's implemented it36700:24:39,090 --> 00:24:40,560really. Right.36800:24:40,560 --> 00:24:43,920Dave Jones: And so then well,that we're, we're gonna do that.36900:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,100And I mean, phase seven is chatis that XMPP37000:24:47,100 --> 00:24:49,650Adam Curry: is that because youknow, the IRC chat? Yeah, is37100:24:49,650 --> 00:24:53,190great and but you know, peopleneed to set up IRC chat for it37200:24:53,190 --> 00:24:54,510to work. Yeah, I37300:24:54,510 --> 00:24:56,550Dave Jones: mean, I think XMPPis going to be the first class37400:24:56,550 --> 00:25:01,410citizen and I agree, like withall this stuff, With all these37500:25:01,410 --> 00:25:06,570tags, you know, we try first andforemost to make the tag except37600:25:07,320 --> 00:25:10,680future proof. So they accept anyprotocol. Yeah. The problem with37700:25:10,680 --> 00:25:15,090namespaces in the past with withwith podcasting is they, they37800:25:15,120 --> 00:25:18,150they tied themselves to aspecific protocol and a lot of37900:25:18,150 --> 00:25:23,160instances. So we really got toavoid that this, the chat tag38000:25:23,160 --> 00:25:25,440has to be just like socialInteract has to be flexible38100:25:25,440 --> 00:25:28,200enough to when the next bigthing comes along, you just rip38200:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,500and replace, you just plug thatthing in. And it goes, yeah, so38300:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,130but as far as like, you needthat you need a sandbox to start38400:25:35,130 --> 00:25:38,790in to prove the things work. Andto test and do all that kind of38500:25:38,790 --> 00:25:42,720stuff. And XMPP is probably thefirst class citizen for that it38600:25:42,720 --> 00:25:45,150makes most sense to me that, youknow,38700:25:45,450 --> 00:25:49,980Adam Curry: what I felt aboutwhat I felt the chat, because we38800:25:49,980 --> 00:25:57,270had an ANZ hash Aynsley liveroom on the on the IRC server38900:25:57,270 --> 00:26:03,360that we that everybody uses.That was very exciting. It was,39000:26:03,390 --> 00:26:06,720um, that's a lot of what thatTwitch does that that's what39100:26:06,720 --> 00:26:12,060your YouTube Live does. And thisis this is available. I'm curio39200:26:12,060 --> 00:26:17,790caster has it, I believe, as theonly one. But I think for live,39300:26:17,820 --> 00:26:21,690that is almost a requirement tohave that. And I love that39400:26:21,690 --> 00:26:25,410because as you say it'sephemeral. And I don't mind it,39500:26:25,410 --> 00:26:28,140when like, when we do no agenda,people are like saying horrible39600:26:28,140 --> 00:26:31,980things, but it scrolls away, youknow, it's not there forever,39700:26:31,980 --> 00:26:36,210it's gone. And that's fine. So Iwould love I would love to have39800:26:36,210 --> 00:26:40,380chat included in, in all of thelive stuff. And in the apps39900:26:40,380 --> 00:26:42,540themselves. I think that'ssomething that everybody could40000:26:42,540 --> 00:26:44,730come together on it.40100:26:45,420 --> 00:26:47,550Dave Jones: And it could benostre too, if the nostril40200:26:47,550 --> 00:26:51,930people want care to do. Justlike the value tag, the value40300:26:51,930 --> 00:26:56,580tag, the social interact, tag,the chat tag, all these tags are40400:26:56,610 --> 00:27:01,830if somebody cares enough abouttheir pet protocol, to put it in40500:27:01,830 --> 00:27:04,860there and make the proof ofconcept and show that it works.40600:27:05,340 --> 00:27:08,880Go for it, there's nothingstopping you. Right that the the40700:27:08,880 --> 00:27:15,120focus that, you know, Bitcoin,and activity pub and XMPP these40800:27:15,120 --> 00:27:19,620sorts of things that we chooseto have as proof of concepts out40900:27:19,620 --> 00:27:22,140of the gate to show like a sortof the first class citizen41000:27:22,140 --> 00:27:26,940stuff. Those are becausethey're, they're the things that41100:27:26,940 --> 00:27:30,750are most, you know, most timetested. They've been through the41200:27:30,750 --> 00:27:34,830wringer. And we know they workand there's lots of experience41300:27:34,830 --> 00:27:38,940with their development. But andit's stuff that we know as a41400:27:38,940 --> 00:27:43,860community. So that that stuffis, but nothing stops you so41500:27:43,860 --> 00:27:49,980like, eventually, over timeever, what's going to win. As41600:27:49,980 --> 00:27:55,020far as a protocol, what whatbecomes the protocol for41700:27:55,020 --> 00:28:01,200podcast, ephemeral chat will bewhatever the community shifts41800:28:01,200 --> 00:28:04,680towards it, whatever thecommunity puts his weight41900:28:04,680 --> 00:28:08,310behind, that's what we'll win.And we can't control that mean,42000:28:08,430 --> 00:28:13,950you know, it's like divertingfor a second, the feeling of42100:28:13,950 --> 00:28:18,960hey, it was an interestingfeeling watching these live42200:28:18,960 --> 00:28:25,980streams happen. Because, like, Iwasn't really involved at all.42300:28:26,850 --> 00:28:31,290Adam Curry: Dude, I love this.We had nothing to do with it was42400:28:31,290 --> 00:28:33,930all other people that was a win,win, win.42500:28:34,260 --> 00:28:37,500Dave Jones: And like, like, it'slike we it's like we birth a42600:28:37,500 --> 00:28:39,600child in the child lot42700:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,710Adam Curry: like that. I grew upand did some stuff and Training42800:28:43,710 --> 00:28:44,700we call42900:28:45,840 --> 00:28:48,210Dave Jones: in like, we're like,oh, the you know, and we went43000:28:48,210 --> 00:28:51,600and watched the graduationceremony. It was told but at the43100:28:51,600 --> 00:28:54,780same time, it was such a weirdexperience to have such a43200:28:54,780 --> 00:28:58,890monumental event where, where itwasn't a bunch of people,43300:28:58,890 --> 00:29:04,200depending on me for like,support and doing all this. It43400:29:04,200 --> 00:29:09,030was a sort of a brain twist. ButI loved it at the same time. And43500:29:09,030 --> 00:29:14,940that's what if your project andif the project is successful, in43600:29:14,940 --> 00:29:19,380all of its different endeavors,and attempts and goals, one of43700:29:19,380 --> 00:29:23,370the things we can expect is thatthings are going to happen and43800:29:23,370 --> 00:29:27,240people are going to begin to usethese things in ways that we43900:29:27,240 --> 00:29:28,500can't, can't44000:29:28,500 --> 00:29:31,650Adam Curry: even dream out. Wedon't want to dictate it at all,44100:29:31,650 --> 00:29:34,770Dave Jones: and we can't controlit. Yeah, we can't say, you44200:29:34,770 --> 00:29:37,620know, this is the protocolyou're supposed to use. Because44300:29:37,620 --> 00:29:41,730like we can say we can say thisis the protocol we use, as far44400:29:41,730 --> 00:29:46,050as like me personally myprotocol that I that I prefer,44500:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,510but if somebody wants to go offand do something different, I44600:29:48,510 --> 00:29:50,520mean, we can't stop them. OpenSource.44700:29:50,550 --> 00:29:54,180Adam Curry: Here's what it feltlike to me. It felt to me like44800:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,440tune sur should have been thevideo source inside the apps44900:29:58,440 --> 00:30:03,240with their with their chatexcept the chat would it would45000:30:03,240 --> 00:30:06,150be a split on the boost buttondoes that make sense?45100:30:07,770 --> 00:30:09,810Dave Jones: I think as the Ithink a falling so if45200:30:09,810 --> 00:30:13,140Adam Curry: I hit a boost toGraham so I would be watching45300:30:13,140 --> 00:30:16,800this video in an app and then Ihit a boost to Graham and the45400:30:16,800 --> 00:30:19,830splits fire off and there's anextra split there that hits the45500:30:19,830 --> 00:30:25,440tune sur.io system which I don'tknow if they accept key send or45600:30:25,440 --> 00:30:30,270not. So they so because they gotnothing to this is the thing.45700:30:30,390 --> 00:30:34,860The nos Nasir it's all 100% tothe to the artists wallet.45800:30:35,610 --> 00:30:38,040Tombstone got nothing out of it,which breaks my heart.45900:30:38,760 --> 00:30:39,630Dave Jones: Oh real well, it46000:30:39,630 --> 00:30:41,970Kyrin Down: was that chatappearing in the video it was46100:30:42,060 --> 00:30:44,700Adam Curry: underneath. Nounderneath right underneath46200:30:44,730 --> 00:30:47,400right underneath me. Just Imean, just like a GoFundMe you46300:30:47,400 --> 00:30:52,350know, and very similar tofountains. Although fountains46400:30:52,350 --> 00:30:54,750switches the screen, this isjust video right in the middle.46500:30:54,930 --> 00:30:59,310And underneath it, you see thezaps coming in? And like that,46600:30:59,340 --> 00:31:02,310that is a good, that's a YouTubelike experience. That's an46700:31:02,310 --> 00:31:05,040experience and people like that.And I saw people zapping and46800:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,620saying something to anotherperson who just just happen to46900:31:07,620 --> 00:31:12,360kind of scrolls off. So that wasvery chat like, although I don't47000:31:12,360 --> 00:31:16,800think he personally I like ourchat because people can chat and47100:31:16,800 --> 00:31:19,830just say stuff. And then whenyou hit a boost, then the47200:31:19,830 --> 00:31:22,800booster grab the boost bot comesto life and it shows it in the47300:31:22,800 --> 00:31:29,520chat. I love that. That to me isthe perfect way to do it. It's47400:31:29,520 --> 00:31:30,990just all the IRC47500:31:30,990 --> 00:31:34,230Dave Jones: experience of whathappens on this show is47600:31:34,860 --> 00:31:38,940excellent. It just needs to beported over to think something47700:31:38,940 --> 00:31:42,180that's well portable. I mean,like, you know, that's that's47800:31:42,870 --> 00:31:47,550that. So I like to finish thatthought on YouTube, the YouTube47900:31:48,390 --> 00:31:53,460thing evolved into live livevideos having a femoral chat,48000:31:53,790 --> 00:31:58,890and then non live videos. It'sit's comments, right? And we48100:31:58,890 --> 00:32:02,820already have comments. But wedon't, you don't have to see48200:32:02,820 --> 00:32:07,950them if you don't want to. Butthey're like the way that I like48300:32:07,950 --> 00:32:14,760the sort of ethic that evolveswhen when Geller May and in the48400:32:14,820 --> 00:32:20,970in that crew put comments putactivity post comments into the48500:32:21,000 --> 00:32:26,370podcast index side, this sort ofethic was there, they're not48600:32:26,370 --> 00:32:29,490visible by default, you have to,you have to choose to go into48700:32:29,490 --> 00:32:32,640the comments. Right? And thatdoesn't mean everybody has to do48800:32:32,640 --> 00:32:36,060that. Maybe that doesn't fitwith your app idea. But it's48900:32:36,060 --> 00:32:40,110just that, like, I think I thinkit sort of blunts some of those49000:32:40,110 --> 00:32:44,580concerns you have, with thecomments stuff that I did. You49100:32:44,580 --> 00:32:49,470can you can live with this stuffall day long. And, and you never49200:32:49,470 --> 00:32:53,460see the comments, mostly untilyou choose to go there. Right.49300:32:53,730 --> 00:32:59,970But then within a femoral chat,like it's, it has a lot of it.49400:33:00,630 --> 00:33:04,320It doesn't have the downsides,that long term commenting social49500:33:04,320 --> 00:33:09,120networking, Gary agreed. So soit feels more safe in a sense,49600:33:09,150 --> 00:33:13,650when you're doing something likea live stream. That, you know,49700:33:13,650 --> 00:33:18,510is the the chat thing to putlike the podcast chat tag, is49800:33:18,510 --> 00:33:24,300going to have to sort of havethat in mind where this is49900:33:24,300 --> 00:33:27,390primarily a live streammechanism. It doesn't it doesn't50000:33:27,390 --> 00:33:30,240mean that it has to beexclusively but it's primarily50100:33:30,240 --> 00:33:32,160that's where the idea live. So50200:33:32,160 --> 00:33:35,070Adam Curry: then there's thesecond part. And this is unique50300:33:35,070 --> 00:33:41,250to podcasting 2.0. And I wasvery wrong about this. I really,50400:33:41,310 --> 00:33:46,890really, really want to surfacemy booster grams in the app in50500:33:46,890 --> 00:33:52,770every app, I really want tosurface them. I see that as a50600:33:52,770 --> 00:33:57,390huge benefit. I think it's, I'veI've been looking at fountain50700:33:57,390 --> 00:34:01,680for a long, long time. And this,there's no toxicity, I don't50800:34:01,680 --> 00:34:04,260need to you don't I don't needto be able to comment on it.50900:34:04,650 --> 00:34:07,470That's okay, I just want peopleto see the booster grams that51000:34:07,470 --> 00:34:12,270have come in. I want them to beavailable on all of the podcast51100:34:12,270 --> 00:34:17,010apps, which to me, and you know,there's a lot of ideas floating51200:34:17,010 --> 00:34:21,510around. I love a boost botservice, you know, and actually51300:34:21,510 --> 00:34:24,930it should be, it should be justlike chapters or just like51400:34:25,530 --> 00:34:30,000transcripts, it should just beyet another tag where there's an51500:34:30,000 --> 00:34:33,840external file and whether I paysomeone as a service, like hyper51600:34:33,840 --> 00:34:38,700catcher, or whether I rip it outof helipad or do something51700:34:38,700 --> 00:34:43,500whatever it is. I would and I Iwould I think I'm gonna have to51800:34:43,500 --> 00:34:47,010propose a tag for that because Ifreely really enjoy that51900:34:47,010 --> 00:34:47,820experience.52000:34:49,110 --> 00:34:50,790Kyrin Down: Well, do you thinkit's worth distinguishing52100:34:50,790 --> 00:34:55,260between the two different waysof using the podcasting apps as52200:34:55,260 --> 00:34:59,580well because the when I firstcame to podcasting 2.0 And I52300:34:59,580 --> 00:35:02,970heard about cross cross APcomments. I was jazz because I52400:35:02,970 --> 00:35:06,480thought it would replicate anexperience kind of like YouTube52500:35:06,480 --> 00:35:09,600and their comments, which Ithink are really cool. But then52600:35:09,780 --> 00:35:13,080I was thinking about it. And youknow why you go into the YouTube52700:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,110comments? It's probably becauseyou're, you're slightly bored52800:35:16,110 --> 00:35:18,690with the video. And so you're,you're looking for something to52900:35:18,690 --> 00:35:22,350do. And so you see you go downnow. And I don't think that's53000:35:22,350 --> 00:35:26,910how most people use a podcastapp. But, you know, they'll53100:35:26,940 --> 00:35:30,540they'll turn it on, and even ifit's on, the phone is still on,53200:35:30,540 --> 00:35:32,940and they're in their kitchencooking, which is something that53300:35:32,940 --> 00:35:37,260I do. It's not like I'm needinga board and I'm needing to go53400:35:37,260 --> 00:35:42,180down to try and find some,whether it'd be more information53500:35:42,180 --> 00:35:45,720or someone else's reaction toit, or anything like that. The53600:35:45,720 --> 00:35:48,120live stuff is completelydifferent, obviously and that53700:35:48,150 --> 00:35:51,390because that is so active andyou're you're wanting to53800:35:51,390 --> 00:35:54,870participate you're trying to dosomething so obviously having53900:35:54,990 --> 00:35:58,050you know a live chat somethingthat's really visible but yeah,54000:35:58,050 --> 00:36:00,930I'm I've kind of changed my tuneon that as well, which is54100:36:01,350 --> 00:36:06,600booster grams and people willingto pay money to write something54200:36:06,600 --> 00:36:10,710and you notice with the boostergrams as well, the very54300:36:10,710 --> 00:36:14,250different than the YouTubeVariety Performance very they're54400:36:14,250 --> 00:36:18,570not, they're not chasing cloutby writing the funniest joke or54500:36:18,570 --> 00:36:22,500the wittiest thing to get moreup likes or anything like that54600:36:22,500 --> 00:36:25,410on it. So yeah, I definitelythink that Mr. Graham's are54700:36:25,590 --> 00:36:26,100good. What54800:36:26,100 --> 00:36:28,980Adam Curry: was interesting wasinteresting last night, is that54900:36:28,980 --> 00:36:31,860people will be sharingscreenshots of fountain and55000:36:31,860 --> 00:36:36,300fountain had only had a webexperience, and it was audio.55100:36:36,960 --> 00:36:39,930But people were sharing thatscreen because it showed you the55200:36:39,930 --> 00:36:44,250booster grams coming in, and itshowed you the total. You see,55300:36:44,280 --> 00:36:47,970there's something there that isdifferent from comments. It's55400:36:47,970 --> 00:36:51,360different from chat. It's athird, a third thing, it's55500:36:51,360 --> 00:36:55,050something different. And it'sunique. It's unique to our apps.55600:36:55,590 --> 00:36:58,380And I I'm gonna have to proposethis tag I don't know if when I55700:36:58,560 --> 00:37:00,180figured out how to write aproposal55800:37:00,930 --> 00:37:04,080Dave Jones: well you know what'sinteresting with this so I'm I'm55900:37:05,700 --> 00:37:10,230part of the reason I livestreambest started live streaming56000:37:10,260 --> 00:37:15,510video during our show just kindof as a learning experience and56100:37:15,510 --> 00:37:19,620also really primarily to helpAlex test No no,56200:37:19,830 --> 00:37:23,580Adam Curry: I thought it was topick up chicks not working56300:37:25,980 --> 00:37:28,980everybody There's Dave Jones onthe live streams look at him56400:37:28,980 --> 00:37:33,660ladies. Is he hot? Or what? He'ssmoking at board room after?56500:37:35,520 --> 00:37:39,930Dave Jones: Yeah, and so like tohelp Alex with test no agenda56600:37:39,930 --> 00:37:44,850tube and have that be a sandbox.But then like, as I like doing56700:37:44,850 --> 00:37:51,900it I thought sort of started tohave like more or less respect56800:37:51,900 --> 00:37:54,090for I can we can hear that. AndI'm56900:37:54,090 --> 00:37:56,490Adam Curry: sorry yeah, I'msorry. I was killing I was57000:37:56,490 --> 00:37:59,730trying to open the the boostergrams and curio caster was still57100:37:59,730 --> 00:38:00,300running. Sorry.57200:38:02,220 --> 00:38:05,730Dave Jones: So like I startedwith a started to understand57300:38:05,730 --> 00:38:09,630sort of the complexities aroundaround all this and have a57400:38:09,630 --> 00:38:14,790little bit more respect for howmuch of a challenge it is, you57500:38:14,790 --> 00:38:21,960know, when so and I'm on noagenda tube right now is in57600:38:21,960 --> 00:38:24,870their chat room. I have thatpulled up in a separate window57700:38:24,870 --> 00:38:31,290on the screen. And I'm seeing itis just like IRC. It's the the X57800:38:31,320 --> 00:38:34,590there's an XMPP booth spot inthe chat room on the agenda57900:38:34,590 --> 00:38:38,070tube. Yep. And when somebodybooths, it shows up, it's right.58000:38:38,070 --> 00:38:41,430It's It is super chat. It isliterally doing the thing that58100:38:41,610 --> 00:38:42,300that we want58200:38:42,330 --> 00:38:44,400Adam Curry: now it's notconnected to the IRC or is that58300:38:44,400 --> 00:38:47,730also connected to it? Becauseyou connect that with XMPP,58400:38:47,730 --> 00:38:48,270can't you?58500:38:49,140 --> 00:38:52,260Dave Jones: Yeah, I think so.But that's like, it's it's being58600:38:52,260 --> 00:38:56,430fed, these things are beingfederated into through Britt,58700:38:56,430 --> 00:38:59,700you know, they're being bridged,right. So we, you know, the58800:38:59,700 --> 00:39:04,680things that we this experience,okay, so, this is something I58900:39:04,680 --> 00:39:08,370was thinking about today too.The other the other thing that I59000:39:08,400 --> 00:39:18,000took away from from this wholeweek was if it was the right,59100:39:18,450 --> 00:39:21,360let me say it this way, it wasthe right decision to slow down59200:39:21,360 --> 00:39:27,210the namespace. Amen. It reallywas because we we ran fast for59300:39:27,210 --> 00:39:32,970like two solid years without anylead up. And then for the last59400:39:33,660 --> 00:39:39,090six months or so, or more,really slowed things down and I59500:39:39,090 --> 00:39:44,100think that was that was fruitfulbecause they let everybody just59600:39:44,100 --> 00:39:47,280concentrate on the thing thatthey needed to concentrate on59700:39:47,280 --> 00:39:50,730catching up and refining likelook at what fountain did with59800:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,510their 1.0 release. Yeah, likewhat podcast Giroux is done with59900:39:54,510 --> 00:39:57,570their value time with theirvalue support. Look at what pod60000:39:57,570 --> 00:40:02,850versus done by getting out yeahThere's, there's so much that60100:40:02,850 --> 00:40:07,500they have now begun to refine,because we slowed down the60200:40:07,500 --> 00:40:12,930frantic pace, though think thatthese all these pieces are60300:40:12,930 --> 00:40:19,140there. Now, it's just a matterof the giving the apps time to60400:40:19,140 --> 00:40:24,360put these things put the piecesinto play. They can, you know,60500:40:24,930 --> 00:40:30,000because that, that takes thattakes time. What exactly I60600:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,670thought the Oscar interview onthe latest pot news weekly60700:40:32,670 --> 00:40:35,760review was really good becausehe said, even he was like we60800:40:35,760 --> 00:40:39,360were frantically addingfeatures. And the interface the60900:40:39,360 --> 00:40:43,800UI just got it became a mess. Sowe had to, we had to, we had to61000:40:43,800 --> 00:40:48,750go into basically rewrite theentire UI to make all of this61100:40:48,750 --> 00:40:53,280make sense. Because if you'rejust adding it's like when you61200:40:53,280 --> 00:40:56,460know, a house that you just addon to overtime, it looks like a61300:40:56,460 --> 00:41:00,510big, you know, freaky weirdthing. You have to you have to61400:41:00,510 --> 00:41:04,710renovate and then just kind ofstart from a fresh template. I61500:41:04,710 --> 00:41:07,320think I think that's reallyimportant. And what I mean, we61600:41:07,320 --> 00:41:12,930will, I think 2024, we need tohead into Phase seven and look61700:41:12,930 --> 00:41:15,240at some of these things. But Isee the face seven tags, like61800:41:15,240 --> 00:41:18,690the chat tag. That's real. Ithink some of these things we're61900:41:18,690 --> 00:41:23,370going to be doing next year, aregoing to be things that are62000:41:23,460 --> 00:41:25,950complementary to what's alreadythere. I don't think it's going62100:41:25,950 --> 00:41:30,960to be any more of this franticpace stuff. I think we can I62200:41:30,960 --> 00:41:35,130think we're gonna have time towork these things out in a way62300:41:35,130 --> 00:41:37,680where people where the appdevelopers can catch their62400:41:37,680 --> 00:41:42,000breath. But like, like say, I'mlooking at no agenda today. I'm62500:41:42,000 --> 00:41:45,360looking at our see both on thesame screen. And they're62600:41:45,360 --> 00:41:48,240literally doing the thing wewant. Chiron62700:41:48,240 --> 00:41:50,700Adam Curry: so it's theircurrent weight weigh in here,62800:41:50,700 --> 00:41:51,060Roman.62900:41:52,020 --> 00:41:55,530Kyrin Down: Yeah. I mean, like,with the social media stuff, I63000:41:55,530 --> 00:41:58,890was just gonna say like, I can'tadd much, because I had none63100:41:58,890 --> 00:42:04,980from 2013 to 2019. And then theway I use it is just is just, I63200:42:05,010 --> 00:42:09,060use it to, like, advertise post.I'm not I'm not big into to that63300:42:09,060 --> 00:42:14,220whole world. But yeah, yeah, Ithink the live chat and the63400:42:14,760 --> 00:42:18,690focusing on that, at least forme, personally as a podcaster63500:42:18,690 --> 00:42:21,780has been really fun. And I'mreally enjoying doing that. And63600:42:21,780 --> 00:42:25,890it's kind of completely changedhow I run my podcast now instead63700:42:25,890 --> 00:42:30,120of recording them seven days inadvance and, and really trying63800:42:30,120 --> 00:42:32,940to clean them up and put themout. Not that I was doing too63900:42:32,940 --> 00:42:35,760much editing anyway. But thatwas that was just due to video,64000:42:35,760 --> 00:42:37,620and I've changed my tune onvideo. So64100:42:39,150 --> 00:42:41,700Dave Jones: dig in on that,Karen, because you you've done64200:42:41,700 --> 00:42:45,360video for a long time. Soyou've, you've been in this,64300:42:45,480 --> 00:42:50,070you've been in the video worldhow how do you? Like what if64400:42:50,070 --> 00:42:54,390you're going to take I think letme ask this questions for figure64500:42:54,390 --> 00:42:58,830out how to ask this. Your videowhat you expect from video is64600:42:58,830 --> 00:43:02,910probably like it is with all ofus. Correct me if I'm wrong, but64700:43:02,910 --> 00:43:06,360it's probably in your head, youjust see the YouTube experience.64800:43:08,100 --> 00:43:12,660Do you if you were to sort oftranslate that into what you64900:43:12,660 --> 00:43:17,670would expect the experience tobe as a podcaster? Or in an app?65000:43:18,420 --> 00:43:21,150What would would it be? Whatwould you see?65100:43:22,410 --> 00:43:24,870Kyrin Down: I think you justhave to realize that different65200:43:24,870 --> 00:43:29,580things like if you if you wantto be a YouTuber, you sure go65300:43:29,580 --> 00:43:33,480for it and go ahead. But it'sreally hard to be a good65400:43:33,480 --> 00:43:37,320youtuber and a good podcaster atthe same time. I'm not even sure65500:43:37,320 --> 00:43:41,400you can is some people can kindof get away with it, kind of the65600:43:41,430 --> 00:43:45,240the LEX Friedman's to the JoeRogan's, but it's you know,65700:43:45,240 --> 00:43:50,490that's, that's really, reallyhard to do. And it's almost I65800:43:50,490 --> 00:43:52,410think, for most people, like youhave to kind of pick one of65900:43:52,410 --> 00:43:58,200them, to be honest. And so thenif you're doing that, I'm not66000:43:58,200 --> 00:44:01,650sure you'd actually want a lotof the YouTube replication in66100:44:01,650 --> 00:44:05,850podcasting apps because it isdifferent. So so just for66200:44:05,850 --> 00:44:13,260example, like doing a liveepisode with the with the66300:44:13,260 --> 00:44:17,490YouTube, you have to focus on alot more things like the video66400:44:17,520 --> 00:44:23,310can get out of sync with theaudio. There's, there's it's got66500:44:23,310 --> 00:44:26,700its own separate chat system ifyou're trying to do it on66600:44:26,700 --> 00:44:30,750YouTube or Twitch or anythinglike that. And this is where66700:44:30,750 --> 00:44:35,310it's just like I would I wouldkind of say you have so many66800:44:35,310 --> 00:44:38,400aspects of video that are great,but they're probably good at66900:44:38,400 --> 00:44:44,220just being video. And so when itcomes to replicating things of67000:44:44,220 --> 00:44:48,750the live chat, for example in apodcasting app, I just don't67100:44:48,750 --> 00:44:52,170know if you need as much as asis there I think kind of like67200:44:52,170 --> 00:44:55,710you're saying an IRC chat ispretty good and and some booster67300:44:55,710 --> 00:44:58,620grams. That's something that wedo really well obviously and67400:44:58,620 --> 00:45:01,710that YouTube doesn't have asmuch you know, they've got the67500:45:01,710 --> 00:45:05,670super chats, I guess. But Idon't really see that used as as67600:45:05,670 --> 00:45:08,340much as, as the podcasting appsDo.67700:45:10,019 --> 00:45:14,309Dave Jones: Do. Do I want tohear I do want to hear Tom67800:45:14,339 --> 00:45:15,929brought clips of a new media67900:45:15,930 --> 00:45:17,880Adam Curry: show. I don't knowif you heard it. You know, I was68000:45:17,880 --> 00:45:23,340in the car. Driving back. Thiswas this. Can I just let me just68100:45:23,340 --> 00:45:25,800wrap this up for one second. Ihave one more thing to say. Oh,68200:45:25,800 --> 00:45:32,370yeah, sure. I have such deepappreciation for Julie Costello.68300:45:32,520 --> 00:45:38,400Jim Costello. Of course. Ainsleyjust loud, his team who I don't68400:45:38,400 --> 00:45:44,610know. Thank you. Thank you fortrusting us. Thank you for the68500:45:44,640 --> 00:45:49,410hours of phone calls witheverybody. That's Julie, mainly,68600:45:49,410 --> 00:45:54,540thank you for the 10,000 wordemails. Thank you for trusting68700:45:54,810 --> 00:45:58,140one of the most precious thingsyou have your daughter to this68800:45:58,140 --> 00:46:02,250group of nut jobs. That couldhave gone horribly wrong in so68900:46:02,250 --> 00:46:07,110many ways. Also, thank you tothe venue. Thank you to open69000:46:07,110 --> 00:46:13,470mic, of Avenue one. Thank you tothe nostre people who we're all69100:46:13,470 --> 00:46:18,900a part of this, it for mepersonally, this was a huge,69200:46:18,930 --> 00:46:25,080huge thing that we are. This waslike Moon guy launch. The I want69300:46:25,080 --> 00:46:28,080my V for V is what I was all Icould think of the whole time.69400:46:28,320 --> 00:46:32,040It's like I've seen thisrevolution happened. I've been a69500:46:32,040 --> 00:46:36,540part of this than the 80s andnow something new is happening.69600:46:36,720 --> 00:46:39,600And I am what I'm for one. I'mwith you, Dave. I'm like, the69700:46:39,600 --> 00:46:45,150kids are off to college. This isgreat. We're here. You know,69800:46:45,270 --> 00:46:48,240when you're out of money and youknow you're hungry, we're gonna69900:46:48,240 --> 00:46:52,890send you a care package. We'regonna send you some clothes for70000:46:52,890 --> 00:46:57,000the winter rent. Okay, money youknow, we're here we're here for70100:46:57,000 --> 00:47:00,060you. But I think I thinkeveryone's graduated and70200:47:00,300 --> 00:47:06,000congratulations to everybody.And believe me when I say that70300:47:06,000 --> 00:47:11,790the this the value block and thesplits is that is what keeps us70400:47:11,790 --> 00:47:15,420all together. That is what hasmade this successful. Because70500:47:15,420 --> 00:47:19,860even if it's just 1% When I whenI saw that, that value block70600:47:20,220 --> 00:47:23,340that that Julie was veryspecific, she wanted to make70700:47:23,340 --> 00:47:28,200sure everybody was in there. Andand how Dolby Das was popping,70800:47:28,200 --> 00:47:32,400boom, switching the value blocklive, my head was exploding. How70900:47:32,400 --> 00:47:34,950beautiful that wasn't that itworked everywhere perfectly. No,71000:47:34,950 --> 00:47:41,070not yet. But we have createdsomething really, it look, MTV71100:47:41,070 --> 00:47:44,580sucked in the early days was allkinds of things wrong and all71200:47:44,580 --> 00:47:48,420kinds of, you know, black blackscreens and stuff not starting71300:47:48,420 --> 00:47:51,180and I could go into how that whythat all happened. It was all71400:47:51,420 --> 00:47:56,580basically, you know, Betamaxtapes, and the whole thing was71500:47:56,580 --> 00:48:00,870was chewing gum and the gaffertape and we're kind of in that71600:48:00,870 --> 00:48:04,770same place. But man, do we havea future and I'm so71700:48:04,770 --> 00:48:09,480appreciative. Everybody whoworked on this, and and it was71800:48:09,480 --> 00:48:13,080just I was just jumping for joy.I mean, there were tears coming71900:48:13,080 --> 00:48:16,650down my face. When I whenAinsley is reading off booster72000:48:16,650 --> 00:48:20,280grams, I couldn't believe andthe video working everywhere. I72100:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,120mean, who needs What's this bowlcrap about video. It works. I72200:48:24,120 --> 00:48:26,820don't know how that happened.But all of a sudden video works72300:48:26,820 --> 00:48:31,170in my apps. Like, okay, it justis there. It was beautiful.72400:48:31,200 --> 00:48:34,890Dave Jones: It didn't just work.It was like, crisp, beautiful.72500:48:34,920 --> 00:48:36,930Like yes, spotless.72600:48:36,960 --> 00:48:40,800Adam Curry: Yes. And the audioThank you. The audio was killer.72700:48:41,700 --> 00:48:45,810You know, just everything wasstellar. I can't wait for what72800:48:45,810 --> 00:48:50,070everyone's going to do next. Andand really the whole, the whole72900:48:50,100 --> 00:48:53,910music side of this you guys Ilove you. I love you so much for73000:48:54,210 --> 00:48:59,700for taking this taking this leapof huge faith. And I'm glad that73100:48:59,700 --> 00:49:02,580it worked. You know, we all knowthat. It's Dred Scott,73200:49:02,580 --> 00:49:06,660basically, who funded the wholething. We know how it works. We73300:49:06,660 --> 00:49:10,020know you know he was boostingeveryone. One73400:49:10,020 --> 00:49:14,700Dave Jones: one 100 100k says1000s 100,000 SATs after another73500:49:14,700 --> 00:49:15,210just boom, boom,73600:49:15,330 --> 00:49:18,270Adam Curry: boom, boom, boom.And you know, and don't discount73700:49:18,270 --> 00:49:21,060those streaming stats. You know,there's more people like Dave73800:49:21,060 --> 00:49:24,000Jones sitting in the theaterstreaming 1000 SATs a minute,73900:49:24,000 --> 00:49:29,070you know, this, it's not justabout the boost anyway, is74000:49:29,070 --> 00:49:31,020Kyrin Down: the biggestdifference. You think the value74100:49:31,020 --> 00:49:35,430for value component is whatreally differentiates it from a74200:49:35,430 --> 00:49:38,340YouTube experience or a twitchexperience or hopefully even74300:49:38,340 --> 00:49:39,570just a podcasting?74400:49:39,600 --> 00:49:42,720Adam Curry: Well, totallybecause, well, there's it74500:49:42,720 --> 00:49:46,050differentiates it from Nasirdifferentiates from everything.74600:49:46,530 --> 00:49:51,150The whole idea that everybodywho's participating gets a piece74700:49:51,150 --> 00:49:54,810of value sent back directly fromthe people who are enjoying the74800:49:54,810 --> 00:49:59,520content or the value they'rereceiving. That's it. That's why74900:49:59,520 --> 00:50:00,720we're still together75000:50:01,740 --> 00:50:06,180Dave Jones: that's why he misseseverybody misses not everybody.75100:50:06,390 --> 00:50:11,910Many people miss a component ofvalue for value because it's75200:50:11,940 --> 00:50:16,770it's it multiple things all atonce and ever is a lot of people75300:50:16,770 --> 00:50:19,290miss one piece or the other75400:50:19,320 --> 00:50:22,140Adam Curry: even Burberry saysthe lighting designer even got a75500:50:22,140 --> 00:50:22,590split.75600:50:23,310 --> 00:50:26,580Dave Jones: I see that's thething is like you that. And75700:50:26,580 --> 00:50:31,020that's the part that I won't saythe quote noster people because75800:50:31,020 --> 00:50:34,350I don't think that's fair. Butthat's that's on the nostril75900:50:34,350 --> 00:50:38,790side of things they haven't theyhaven't caught the importance of76000:50:38,790 --> 00:50:42,510that yet, which is the fullstack, everybody gets a cut.76100:50:42,540 --> 00:50:46,860Yeah, if you can't do it thatway, it doesn't work. It doesn't76200:50:46,860 --> 00:50:51,750because people give up. If youcan't, the value flow doesn't76300:50:51,750 --> 00:50:57,240always have to be monetary. Butthat's one clear expression that76400:50:57,240 --> 00:51:02,100you can do with because ifpeople just if people are76500:51:02,100 --> 00:51:06,060participating, this happens,this happens with everything.76600:51:06,660 --> 00:51:12,030People come and go in a project.In open source, you'll have one76700:51:12,030 --> 00:51:15,900person that just works theirtheir butt off for months. They76800:51:15,900 --> 00:51:19,140don't get anything for it otherthan the enjoyment of doing it.76900:51:19,380 --> 00:51:22,830When the enjoyment fades, theygo they fade, they disappear.77000:51:23,160 --> 00:51:23,490And then we77100:51:23,490 --> 00:51:24,210Unknown: get them forgotten.77200:51:24,930 --> 00:51:28,380Dave Jones: And they're gonnaand then you Yeah, and then you77300:51:28,380 --> 00:51:33,210get next cloud or whatever. Thebut but when you can have the77400:51:33,210 --> 00:51:39,540split where everybody can sharein the in in the revenue. It77500:51:39,540 --> 00:51:43,770changes the game. Now it's nonow it's no longer people just77600:51:43,770 --> 00:51:45,990doing it simply out of the outof the kindness of their77700:51:45,990 --> 00:51:52,050Adam Curry: heart. Oh, and oneother thing. I loved how the77800:51:52,050 --> 00:51:57,240homegrown hits gals. They cometo the live feed during their77900:51:57,240 --> 00:52:03,090live show. Oh, that's cool. Andyeah, but also the promotion.78000:52:03,450 --> 00:52:07,230That and this is this is where apro like Julie Costello comes78100:52:07,230 --> 00:52:13,020in. I heard Bo Cody Christopherwith music sidestream podcast.78200:52:13,050 --> 00:52:17,670He did a quick interview withAinsley. There was a shoot of78300:52:17,670 --> 00:52:23,550Sam Sethi had Ainsley and justloud on pod news weekly review.78400:52:23,850 --> 00:52:28,500I mean, it was it was like areal, that's an industry. Right?78500:52:28,500 --> 00:52:32,040That's an industry. That's howan industry works. That's the78600:52:32,040 --> 00:52:34,710podcast industrial complex.That's how an industry works78700:52:34,710 --> 00:52:39,510together to promote things towork together. And you know,78800:52:39,510 --> 00:52:42,360when when Ainsley is on thesidestream music podcast with78900:52:42,360 --> 00:52:46,380Cody, he streaming value, hegets value, she gets value, it's79000:52:46,380 --> 00:52:50,100just value flying everywhere. Iget up sometimes in the middle79100:52:50,100 --> 00:52:55,170of the night. I'll be honestabout if I wake up, maybe79200:52:55,170 --> 00:52:57,780sometimes I'll wake up at 3amI'm old now. So that happens79300:52:57,780 --> 00:52:57,960like79400:52:58,950 --> 00:53:00,060Dave Jones: oh, yeah, you gottapee. Yeah.79500:53:01,500 --> 00:53:07,230Adam Curry: And, and I will openup my zap, I think it's zap,79600:53:07,230 --> 00:53:10,710well, that changed the name ofit, they change it to bit79700:53:10,710 --> 00:53:15,780banana, whatever. And I and Iuse that one because I can bring79800:53:15,780 --> 00:53:22,110up the podcast index node. And Iwill just watch and see one79900:53:22,110 --> 00:53:28,920Satoshi at a time streaming in.And it makes me incredibly happy80000:53:29,070 --> 00:53:29,430now.80100:53:30,630 --> 00:53:33,540Dave Jones: It's like watching afish. I can just your I can80200:53:33,540 --> 00:53:36,990imagine you at three o'clock inthe morning, staring a helipad.80300:53:37,320 --> 00:53:40,170Adam Curry: It was it was it'slike basically helipad. But you80400:53:40,170 --> 00:53:43,710know, but I see the whole index.And I don't see, I don't see80500:53:43,710 --> 00:53:46,830booster grams or anything. It'sjust I see the, I just see one80600:53:46,830 --> 00:53:49,890set, you know, 20 SATs, becausewe're just getting a percentage80700:53:49,890 --> 00:53:53,880of stuff. And some of its forour for this podcast. So maybe a80800:53:53,880 --> 00:53:57,480higher amount. But I and youknow, every minute there's80900:53:57,540 --> 00:54:01,8301215 20 Different payments perminute. And I just know that at81000:54:01,860 --> 00:54:07,710that moment. There's people 20people around the world sending81100:54:07,710 --> 00:54:13,950value to podcasters musicians,apps, services, da81200:54:15,270 --> 00:54:19,470Kyrin Down: didn't give you myslight an early prediction,81300:54:19,500 --> 00:54:23,640which was for the podNewsweekly. And my prediction81400:54:23,640 --> 00:54:27,120for 2024 was it's just going tobe all about collaboration you81500:54:27,120 --> 00:54:31,920because you get so much accessto not not need to trust81600:54:31,920 --> 00:54:35,850somebody for this payment isgonna go here and then it will81700:54:35,850 --> 00:54:39,630get there eventually and andthat all that sort of just, I81800:54:39,630 --> 00:54:44,580don't know, what was call itwasting of time or just the non81900:54:44,580 --> 00:54:48,720directness of it. And so evenwhen like looking, if you're on82000:54:48,720 --> 00:54:51,540like Tiktok or something andsomeone's got music, and they're82100:54:51,540 --> 00:54:54,420dancing, and that that becomesreally popular, like the82200:54:54,420 --> 00:54:58,620musician gets nothing of that.So it's just yeah, with with82300:54:58,620 --> 00:55:00,600everything being connected likethat and And then being able to82400:55:00,600 --> 00:55:04,140verify it and see it. That's atthat's, that's a real game this82500:55:04,140 --> 00:55:08,190Adam Curry: morning, as I wokeup at six, and I'm still jacked,82600:55:08,460 --> 00:55:12,270and and Tina asked some reallygood question. She says, So how82700:55:12,270 --> 00:55:14,730does it really work? The musicbusiness? How does it get played82800:55:14,730 --> 00:55:17,460when a song is on the radio?And, you know, just running82900:55:17,460 --> 00:55:19,830through all that, and you know,and basically the end of the83000:55:19,830 --> 00:55:24,450day, after 48 months, you know,a penny drops into your into83100:55:24,450 --> 00:55:28,140your piggy bank there. Andthat's it. And she has and she's83200:55:28,140 --> 00:55:30,960went holy crap. And I wish I'drecorded it because I was really83300:55:31,320 --> 00:55:35,970lucid, lucid. And I said, Holycrap, no wonder everyone's so83400:55:35,970 --> 00:55:39,990excited to Yes, exactly. Andthat's the magic that is that is83500:55:39,990 --> 00:55:45,420created here. And it's like eveneven advertising. And this will83600:55:45,420 --> 00:55:49,860pivot into I think, what is yourclips, Dave? So advertising. And83700:55:50,460 --> 00:55:54,690a, an advertiser A brand wantsto advertise their product or83800:55:54,690 --> 00:55:57,900service, they call theiradvertising agency, they say we83900:55:57,900 --> 00:55:59,880want to do this. Now, you know,what includes some podcasts,84000:55:59,940 --> 00:56:05,160okay? Then the agency has theirmedia plan, or the media planner84100:56:05,280 --> 00:56:07,860is going to look around is goingto figure out what the best84200:56:07,860 --> 00:56:10,650thing is. And then the mediaplanners, because Okay, when84300:56:10,650 --> 00:56:13,230they come up with a plan, wehave some more meetings, the84400:56:13,230 --> 00:56:16,830advertiser signs off on it, theysign off on a budget, then the84500:56:16,830 --> 00:56:20,940media buyer goes out. And thenthe podcast whether the it let's84600:56:20,940 --> 00:56:24,330just say its host reads a mix ofsome host reads and some84700:56:24,480 --> 00:56:27,840dynamically inserted ads, ofcourse, creative has to be made.84800:56:28,170 --> 00:56:31,020All of that has to be approvedand go through that process are84900:56:31,050 --> 00:56:33,750mistakenly, oh, let's justrepurpose the radio ads doesn't85000:56:33,750 --> 00:56:39,210matter. Then all of the podcastnetworks or the podcast shows,85100:56:39,510 --> 00:56:43,140they have to sign affidavits andsay, okay, these these ads were85200:56:43,140 --> 00:56:48,570delivered. This was deliveredthis many times. You know, and85300:56:48,570 --> 00:56:51,750this is through the metrics, andhere's the proof, it's ay ay b,85400:56:51,750 --> 00:56:55,410and then that goes back to theagency. And the agency tallies85500:56:55,410 --> 00:56:58,140that all up. It goes into theiraccounting. And then the85600:56:58,140 --> 00:57:03,150accounting sends a bill to theclient net 90. So 90 days later,85700:57:03,330 --> 00:57:06,750they're going to pay theiragency, the agency takes a fee.85800:57:06,990 --> 00:57:09,600There's all these than thenetwork takes a fee. And then85900:57:09,600 --> 00:57:13,500finally, somewhere down theline. 456 months later, the86000:57:13,500 --> 00:57:17,910podcaster gets a couple ofdimes. Yeah, that's literally86100:57:17,910 --> 00:57:21,690the process. And then I onlyhave one clip that I'll play86200:57:21,690 --> 00:57:27,600here. And I believe that we aregoing to see agencies on behalf86300:57:27,630 --> 00:57:33,690of their clients going topodcast networks, podcast shows,86400:57:33,870 --> 00:57:38,400and they're going to say theywant money back or they want86500:57:38,430 --> 00:57:44,220make goods because Rob Walsh ofLipson said the quiet part out86600:57:44,220 --> 00:57:47,910loud. Literally said this,86700:57:47,970 --> 00:57:52,050Unknown: if shows have over 300episodes, they could and should86800:57:52,050 --> 00:57:55,860expect to see their total weeklydownloads at the end of November86900:57:55,920 --> 00:58:00,630be greater than a 25% drop belowwhere their weekly numbers were87000:58:00,660 --> 00:58:03,870in early September. Here's thething, and I want people to87100:58:03,870 --> 00:58:08,340remember this. Your audiencesize did not change those87200:58:08,340 --> 00:58:10,680numbers. That was extradownloads that were happening to87300:58:10,680 --> 00:58:13,650your back catalogue weren'tbeing listened to. It's just87400:58:13,710 --> 00:58:18,330right sizing your downloads yourmonthly and weekly downloads to87500:58:18,330 --> 00:58:21,420what's more realistic, andwhat's really happening. Well,87600:58:21,420 --> 00:58:21,930thanks87700:58:21,960 --> 00:58:25,110Adam Curry: so you overchargedme by 25% for the same amount of87800:58:25,110 --> 00:58:27,990people. He literally just said87900:58:27,990 --> 00:58:31,140Dave Jones: that is called right88000:58:31,140 --> 00:58:33,990Adam Curry: sizing. Oh, rightsizing. Okay, there you go.88100:58:33,990 --> 00:58:36,840Dave Jones: Yeah, it's not youdidn't get ripped off. You got88200:58:36,900 --> 00:58:40,320you got wrong size. So that youneed to right size that88300:58:40,350 --> 00:58:43,650Adam Curry: I mean, that's herrific Well, this88400:58:43,650 --> 00:58:47,730Dave Jones: is the same thingthat causes in this is the joy88500:58:47,850 --> 00:58:52,380that I have right now is toshare with you that Todd, Todd's88600:58:52,380 --> 00:58:53,010F bomb.88700:58:55,260 --> 00:58:57,420Adam Curry: That's the secondclip. Okay. Okay,88800:58:57,420 --> 00:59:01,350Dave Jones: well, well, let's wecan we can tease the F bomb88900:59:01,350 --> 00:59:09,600because the Kratt the I'm proudto say that in that we I89000:59:09,600 --> 00:59:16,500predicted on the last show thatwe would that we would wear Todd89100:59:16,500 --> 00:59:23,040down. And in that it he would hewould indeed adopt the Austrian89200:59:23,040 --> 00:59:23,970enclosure because we89300:59:23,970 --> 00:59:26,400Adam Curry: didn't take morethan 20 hours.89400:59:27,870 --> 00:59:32,040Dave Jones: When Todd discussdiscussing things with Todd is89500:59:32,040 --> 00:59:36,060more is more of a negotiationthan anything else we eat when89600:59:36,060 --> 00:59:41,130he says no, that doesn't reallymean no. it mean it means I'm89700:59:41,130 --> 00:59:46,440just not ready yet. Like you canuse it means you need to change89800:59:46,440 --> 00:59:51,720tactics. And he's and I'm happyto report that the cracks are89900:59:51,720 --> 00:59:52,230forming.90000:59:52,380 --> 00:59:54,300Todd Cochran: While there isthere is a little bit of90100:59:54,300 --> 01:00:00,000initiative over at podcasting.2.0 No, it's early on what90201:00:00,000 --> 01:00:03,150they're gonna do. And so the90301:00:03,360 --> 01:00:06,150Unknown: large thing is, yeah,it was thought of you.90401:00:06,180 --> 01:00:09,660Todd Cochran: But what you knowthe idea that spin surface that90501:00:09,660 --> 01:00:15,720seems to be pretty good is Yeah,sure rock, blueberry supports90601:00:15,720 --> 01:00:18,690video podcasting, you want onetraditionally you can have one.90701:00:19,170 --> 01:00:22,560Okay, if you want one. Numbertwo, if you decide to put your90801:00:22,560 --> 01:00:28,680video over at wherever it may beTwitch, Twitter, Spotify,90901:00:29,010 --> 01:00:33,600wherever now, YouTube, whereveryou're going to close, you can91001:00:33,600 --> 01:00:38,220put in the list, okay, whatever.So if you want to put your video91101:00:38,220 --> 01:00:44,670over there, you know you can.But what we're going to do is do91201:00:44,670 --> 01:00:48,930the alternate enclosure tag,which I vowed not to support91301:00:49,200 --> 01:00:53,820from the main purpose of it, butI can see a use case going91401:00:53,820 --> 01:00:59,910forward where we just link tothe YouTube video. In the often91501:00:59,910 --> 01:01:02,790enclosure, we just basicallyprovide a link to the episode91601:01:02,790 --> 01:01:07,560link. So then when they're inthe podcast app, they can still91701:01:07,560 --> 01:01:11,790get their audio version. Or ifthey want the video version that91801:01:11,790 --> 01:01:14,850served up from YouTube, they cando that as an embed right in the91901:01:14,850 --> 01:01:18,960app. And it still keeps it in apodcast app.92001:01:21,000 --> 01:01:26,340Dave Jones: Yeah, so welcome tothe party. We love Utah. And92101:01:26,370 --> 01:01:30,900this we will see you with fullvideo Ultraman enclosure support92201:01:30,930 --> 01:01:34,320in the near future. Good.92301:01:34,920 --> 01:01:38,160Adam Curry: I was gonna say Ilove the show so much. I was on92401:01:38,160 --> 01:01:42,330my way back from Austin. I getin the car to drive back. I see92501:01:42,330 --> 01:01:45,840the notification. It's only twominutes old. I'm like, Oh, this92601:01:45,840 --> 01:01:50,790is great. So I pop it on the onthe on the car Bluetooth, and92701:01:50,790 --> 01:01:54,360I'm driving and I am justbooster grabbing like nuts. I'm92801:01:54,360 --> 01:02:00,900like, I'm disowning Rob. Like,they're like, Hey, who's gonna92901:02:00,900 --> 01:02:03,450do chapters and said it's veryeasy to do chapters for your93001:02:03,450 --> 01:02:09,210show is just chapter one through10 Rob shields for YouTube. You93101:02:09,210 --> 01:02:09,420know,93201:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,410Dave Jones: this was thegreatest episode of new media93301:02:13,410 --> 01:02:17,400show I've ever heard. It was sofunny. Without a doubt. I mean,93401:02:17,400 --> 01:02:22,050and so I mean, in that vein, Imean, we please F bomb it.93501:02:22,350 --> 01:02:26,700Todd Cochran: We need to we needto put some some brakes on why93601:02:27,030 --> 01:02:30,690there's less than one half of 1%93701:02:32,010 --> 01:02:34,680Unknown: We'll talk why. Why dowe need to put brakes,93801:02:34,950 --> 01:02:38,010Todd Cochran: we quit. We needto, we need to quit. We need to93901:02:38,010 --> 01:02:41,460quit pumping it up. There's veryfew people on podcasting site94001:02:41,460 --> 01:02:45,030that has actually switched tovideo. It's not that big a94101:02:45,030 --> 01:02:50,730numbers. It's not. It's not thatmany as compared to audio folks.94201:02:50,850 --> 01:02:54,330We don't have to tell him tostop. But we need to quit hyping94301:02:54,330 --> 01:02:58,560it as this new fucking frontierand everyone is gotta be on it's94401:02:58,560 --> 01:03:04,890not true. I would say less than5% less than maybe less than 3%94501:03:04,890 --> 01:03:07,230of podcasters currently aredoing any video.94601:03:11,190 --> 01:03:15,510Dave Jones: So this is this is.This was to me the best part is94701:03:15,510 --> 01:03:21,120this discussion between and I'vetried to make this. I've tried94801:03:21,120 --> 01:03:25,380to make this point before itrecently is that this whole?94901:03:25,770 --> 01:03:32,940Like, it's become obvious to methat this schism between AD AD95001:03:32,940 --> 01:03:37,200research and digital advertisingresearch in the podcast95101:03:37,200 --> 01:03:43,110industry. And in the hostingcompany slash infrastructure. Is95201:03:43,140 --> 01:03:48,480this is a this is destined forfor a reckoning here. Yeah,95301:03:48,510 --> 01:03:53,490because they're the digitaladvertising industry is leading95401:03:54,150 --> 01:03:58,950Korea's leading podcasters downone path in the hosting95501:03:58,950 --> 01:04:04,080companies just like Todd istalking about here is the95601:04:04,080 --> 01:04:09,390hosting company see it for whatit is, which is BS. But the95701:04:09,390 --> 01:04:12,360digital advertising companiesthey're just dying to get95801:04:12,690 --> 01:04:18,330everybody focused on video andYouTube. He talks about that in95901:04:18,330 --> 01:04:21,120clip three about the tensionbetween those two. What96001:04:21,120 --> 01:04:24,090Unknown: I'm saying is what weneed to recognize is that this96101:04:24,090 --> 01:04:28,890is a unified audience that is Iam audio and video had no96201:04:28,890 --> 01:04:32,220Todd Cochran: doubt that we meetwe need to set expectations96301:04:32,220 --> 01:04:35,670realistically for the averagepodcaster on what's going to96401:04:35,670 --> 01:04:38,310happen when they go invest anddo a whole bunch of work on96501:04:38,310 --> 01:04:39,630video. Very96601:04:39,630 --> 01:04:43,110Unknown: few are pastor pastorfigure that out for them so that96701:04:43,110 --> 01:04:46,410Todd Cochran: we need to okay,if I'm sitting here and saying96801:04:46,410 --> 01:04:49,350video, podcasting is the nextbiggest thing and this is where96901:04:49,350 --> 01:04:53,820you need to invest your money.I'm doing a disservice to97001:04:53,820 --> 01:04:57,570podcaster I have to send theexpectation level of what's97101:04:57,570 --> 01:05:00,450going to happen when you dovideo. If you You're gonna do97201:05:00,870 --> 01:05:05,040Unknown: have to set a lowexpectation for what somebody97301:05:05,040 --> 01:05:05,850might expect, because97401:05:05,850 --> 01:05:08,970Todd Cochran: that's what'sgonna happen to 99% of people.97501:05:09,090 --> 01:05:13,200Adam Curry: I appreciate whatTodd is doing here, because this97601:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,470is exactly what happened in2008. My balls were not as big97701:05:16,470 --> 01:05:21,030as his. It was, it was theventure capitalists, we had pod97801:05:21,030 --> 01:05:25,020show. And we went so becausethey were like, look at YouTube,97901:05:25,020 --> 01:05:27,780YouTube just launched that's a$2 billion, you know, blah,98001:05:27,780 --> 01:05:32,970blah, blah. Look at juiceremember juiced? And you know, J98101:05:32,970 --> 01:05:34,200O S T?98201:05:34,770 --> 01:05:36,420Dave Jones: O, what a terriblename.98301:05:36,450 --> 01:05:39,150Adam Curry: Oh, no, you gotta bemore like, juiced? Oh, yeah,98401:05:39,180 --> 01:05:43,410this was, this was like somevideo thing. The I mean, I don't98501:05:43,410 --> 01:05:46,080think anyone even remembers it.But it was hot for like five98601:05:46,080 --> 01:05:51,630days. And we not only went allvideo, we changed the name to me98701:05:51,630 --> 01:05:55,500VO We changed it away from podfrom pod show, we did all of98801:05:55,500 --> 01:06:00,090that, and failed spectacularly,because it was the wrong thing98901:06:00,090 --> 01:06:04,710to do. And if we kept thatcompany going for 10 years, 1099001:06:04,710 --> 01:06:09,030years, $65 million, it'd be wemet revenue. But you know, the99101:06:09,030 --> 01:06:11,940burn was just eventually theburned, it just overtook the99201:06:11,940 --> 01:06:16,680revenue. Because it was just itwasn't there. And the costs were99301:06:16,680 --> 01:06:19,890too high of a network, you can'tmonetize the network for a whole99401:06:19,890 --> 01:06:24,750bunch of reasons. And if we hadonly done just audio, then had99501:06:25,410 --> 01:06:30,180them had had gone to a differentmonetization model. If we had99601:06:30,180 --> 01:06:33,390figured out value for valueearlier, we might have made it.99701:06:34,050 --> 01:06:34,770But now,99801:06:35,460 --> 01:06:40,740Dave Jones: now, the whole timeduring this discussion, Rob,99901:06:40,770 --> 01:06:47,040Rob's whole point was based onon this, this research survey,100001:06:47,490 --> 01:06:50,640done by sounds profitable. Andhe just kept saying the100101:06:50,640 --> 01:06:54,780research, the research theresearch, and like an antenna,100201:06:54,810 --> 01:07:00,840the top end clip for Todd tallis he's trying to say look, I100301:07:00,840 --> 01:07:04,650don't care what your researchsays. I know what the reality of100401:07:04,650 --> 01:07:08,430this is in the research iswrong. And so he keeps He keeps100501:07:08,430 --> 01:07:12,090talking trying to convince himand Rob can't see outside this100601:07:12,090 --> 01:07:16,050research thing, which is thething that is the problem. All100701:07:16,050 --> 01:07:19,740Todd Cochran: I'm saying is thatif we keep hyping video.100801:07:20,430 --> 01:07:23,550Alright, let's start hypingvideo every day you have to do100901:07:23,550 --> 01:07:28,020video. Then someone about a yearfrom now is gonna say, Todd Rob,101001:07:28,020 --> 01:07:32,310why did you tell me to do video?I've had no success on video.101101:07:33,480 --> 01:07:35,820But I've had great success withmy audio program.101201:07:36,570 --> 01:07:39,150Unknown: I didn't tell anybodyto do video. Well,101301:07:39,150 --> 01:07:41,580Todd Cochran: it sounds like youare. Well, this101401:07:41,580 --> 01:07:44,520Unknown: research is showingthat for101501:07:44,550 --> 01:07:48,510Todd Cochran: a segment of verybig shows. Okay,101601:07:48,660 --> 01:07:52,620Unknown: but if you look atthese overall numbers that that101701:07:52,980 --> 01:07:53,790Tom shape that101801:07:53,790 --> 01:07:57,540Todd Cochran: listening to verybig shows what where is the101901:07:57,540 --> 01:08:01,410distribution amongst smallershows on YouTube? It's not102001:08:01,410 --> 01:08:02,340there. Dave102101:08:02,340 --> 01:08:05,130Adam Curry: Jones, I love youfor so many reasons. I'm going102201:08:05,130 --> 01:08:08,880to tell you why I love first ofall, I love you to rob. And102301:08:09,030 --> 01:08:12,390don't worry, Todd and Rob willhave this conversation next week102401:08:12,390 --> 01:08:15,780and the week after and the weekafter and the week after. That102501:08:15,780 --> 01:08:17,430will keep on going and it's102601:08:17,429 --> 01:08:18,929Dave Jones: this this one catchthe reruns.102701:08:20,790 --> 01:08:22,860Adam Curry: And just when Ithink I'm mad, and I can't102801:08:22,860 --> 01:08:27,870listen to it anymore, it getsentertaining. I was planning for102901:08:27,900 --> 01:08:33,690my Sunday no agenda show to clipfor similar reasons. But you're103001:08:33,690 --> 01:08:36,900tying it together beautifullyhere on the media, which now I103101:08:36,900 --> 01:08:39,750understand what what you becauseit's my hatless. You know where103201:08:39,750 --> 01:08:42,210I'm going. Oh, of course. I knowwhere you're going. You're going103301:08:42,210 --> 01:08:43,260to the research.103401:08:43,470 --> 01:08:47,760Dave Jones: Yep, yep. Yep. Andthe so the on the media which103501:08:47,790 --> 01:08:54,570you this is a thing that youcreated within me. See, yes, the103601:08:54,570 --> 01:08:58,800hate listen. No, Karen, youdon't have the joy in Australia103701:08:58,830 --> 01:09:00,480of listening to on the media.103801:09:01,199 --> 01:09:04,679Kyrin Down: No, well, I don'tpersonally have to. Do103901:09:04,680 --> 01:09:07,410Adam Curry: you have a hateListen, though? Ah, no.104001:09:08,550 --> 01:09:10,710Kyrin Down: There's nothing thatI particularly do know. There's104101:09:10,710 --> 01:09:14,460there's tons of things where II'll go to it intentionally104201:09:14,550 --> 01:09:18,030because I think it's dumb andwant to see like if there's a104301:09:18,030 --> 01:09:20,640reason missing now. That's104401:09:20,640 --> 01:09:23,430Adam Curry: a hatless. I alwayswish that I could send boosts to104501:09:23,430 --> 01:09:24,210these shows.104601:09:24,900 --> 01:09:25,770Dave Jones: Oh, I do too. I104701:09:25,770 --> 01:09:28,560Adam Curry: would understandthat I would be boosted now. I'd104801:09:28,560 --> 01:09:31,830be boosting so big to thesepeople. Like this is stupid.104901:09:31,830 --> 01:09:34,860Here's 100,000 SATs I wish Icould do that. What105001:09:34,860 --> 01:09:38,310Kyrin Down: my hate listen thenwould be this scammy list crypto105101:09:38,310 --> 01:09:42,210crap that I can find to see ifthere's anything like any reason105201:09:42,210 --> 01:09:45,870I should be focusing on anythingreally than Bitcoin. That's not105301:09:47,189 --> 01:09:49,379Dave Jones: a current if youdon't have a hatless and I105401:09:49,379 --> 01:09:52,349highly suggest you go and getit's good for you. It's good for105501:09:52,349 --> 01:09:57,899fantastic. It's wonderful on themedia is now I mean like it hits105601:09:57,899 --> 01:10:02,549my my podcast app and it'sImmediate right away. Immediate.105701:10:03,539 --> 01:10:11,009And so like the the so on themedia this week at the beginning105801:10:11,009 --> 01:10:16,379of it is like is the all A'sjust quoting all of these these105901:10:16,409 --> 01:10:21,059these, these surveys that oursaying that Trump is beating106001:10:21,059 --> 01:10:25,949Biden in like everything? Imean, like swing states, Israel,106101:10:25,979 --> 01:10:28,859conflict, economy, mortar,106201:10:28,860 --> 01:10:30,450Adam Curry: anything anythingYeah, boy106301:10:30,450 --> 01:10:33,780Dave Jones: y'all are blue,whatever. It's just whether106401:10:33,780 --> 01:10:35,310cilantro tastes good.106501:10:35,760 --> 01:10:39,570Adam Curry: Everything kale isno good. Yeah. So106601:10:39,630 --> 01:10:41,640Dave Jones: then so they bringon they're like, Okay, well106701:10:41,640 --> 01:10:44,730let's dig into this let's findout about surveys. Let's let's106801:10:44,730 --> 01:10:49,560do this research this a littlebit. And the Whoa, this they get106901:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,220this lady from I think she'sfrom the New York Times because107001:10:53,220 --> 01:10:58,560they did a joint poll with SienaCollege. And they they started107101:10:58,740 --> 01:11:02,190going over how they do these,these surveys. And this, this107201:11:02,190 --> 01:11:07,350ties in with what Rob is basinghis thing on, which is surveys.107301:11:07,860 --> 01:11:12,750And they start off by talkingabout how the wording in surveys107401:11:12,780 --> 01:11:14,580is crucial. So107501:11:14,610 --> 01:11:17,070Todd Cochran: let's talk aboutthe way a question is framed107601:11:17,070 --> 01:11:19,800because it can mean anything,and it can mean everything.107701:11:20,190 --> 01:11:24,510We're there debates about thewording of any questions in107801:11:24,510 --> 01:11:26,010these particular polls,107901:11:26,760 --> 01:11:29,970Unknown: in any poll, but inparticular, this poll, we wanted108001:11:29,970 --> 01:11:32,490to be very careful andconscientious and how we worded108101:11:32,490 --> 01:11:35,910the questions because, you know,we know that the conflict108201:11:35,910 --> 01:11:38,670between Israel and Gaza rightnow is very complicated. And108301:11:38,700 --> 01:11:41,850even that choice of words I hadnow is really complicated,108401:11:41,880 --> 01:11:44,280right? We had to really thinkcarefully about when we're108501:11:44,280 --> 01:11:47,250saying Gaza, when we're sayingPalestinians, when we're saying108601:11:47,280 --> 01:11:49,830Israel, when we're saying theIsraeli government, each of108701:11:49,830 --> 01:11:54,510those decisions was very, verycareful. And with any poll, we108801:11:54,510 --> 01:11:58,440spend a lot of time thinkingabout question wording with sort108901:11:58,440 --> 01:12:00,750of two main goals. I109001:12:00,750 --> 01:12:03,090Adam Curry: was literallycooking burgers outside when I109101:12:03,090 --> 01:12:06,690was I hate listening to this.I'm like, Oh, this is so good.109201:12:06,810 --> 01:12:08,280This is so good.109301:12:09,510 --> 01:12:11,520Dave Jones: So what do you thinkthe two main goals are?109401:12:12,390 --> 01:12:15,060Adam Curry: Well as chyron gohigher, and where did I already109501:12:15,060 --> 01:12:15,660heard it? Oh,109601:12:15,660 --> 01:12:17,280Dave Jones: you already heardit? What are the two when it109701:12:17,280 --> 01:12:20,250comes to wording of surveyquestions. Karen, what are the109801:12:20,250 --> 01:12:22,140two main goals you can think of?109901:12:23,400 --> 01:12:27,750Kyrin Down: Jays that probablywant some sort of participation?110001:12:27,750 --> 01:12:31,260Like I imagine if you'relistening to a poll and you and110101:12:31,290 --> 01:12:33,540then you're ambivalent, thenit's then it's not good. They110201:12:33,540 --> 01:12:39,570want to definite yes, or adefinite no. So participation,110301:12:39,570 --> 01:12:43,710and then I mean, like they'dhave their own bias, right. So110401:12:43,710 --> 01:12:46,710they'll probably be leaning atone way or another. It's very110501:12:46,710 --> 01:12:50,940hard to be truly neutral. Soyeah, turning it to their what110601:12:50,940 --> 01:12:53,250they kind of want to hear. Okay,110701:12:53,280 --> 01:12:55,140Dave Jones: all right, let's,let's see what she has to say.110801:12:55,260 --> 01:13:00,510Unknown: The first is that aquestion feels fair to anybody110901:13:00,510 --> 01:13:03,780who's being asked it. We want torepresent every single voter in111001:13:03,780 --> 01:13:06,930America, no matter theiropinion, no matter where they111101:13:06,930 --> 01:13:09,720sit on the political spectrum.And so that means that every111201:13:09,720 --> 01:13:12,300voter in America should be ableto look at these questions and111301:13:12,300 --> 01:13:15,300say, I see myself in thoseanswer choices. There is an111401:13:15,300 --> 01:13:19,470answer choice there, thatrepresents how I feel. So that111501:13:19,470 --> 01:13:22,500requires a lot of debate on thesecond thing that we spend a lot111601:13:22,500 --> 01:13:26,490of time doing is trying toensure that the questions are111701:13:26,490 --> 01:13:30,000interpreted the same byeverybody who's answering them.111801:13:30,270 --> 01:13:32,400Oftentimes with polls, we canget something what's called111901:13:32,400 --> 01:13:35,700measurement error, where wethink we're measuring something112001:13:35,700 --> 01:13:38,490but different respondentsinterpret it different ways. And112101:13:38,490 --> 01:13:41,520so we again, spend a lot of timebeing very careful and very112201:13:41,520 --> 01:13:42,570precise. Can you112301:13:42,570 --> 01:13:44,640Adam Curry: imagine thatmeeting? Imagine working there112401:13:44,640 --> 01:13:46,830and sitting in that meeting? I112501:13:46,830 --> 01:13:52,020Dave Jones: love the I lovethese words. We it's like they112601:13:52,050 --> 01:13:56,700like they say, you know, we callthat fill in the blank. And it's112701:13:56,700 --> 01:14:00,270always something you expect frominstructing? Yeah, you're112801:14:00,270 --> 01:14:04,170expecting it to be some reallyfancy term, but it's the what do112901:14:04,170 --> 01:14:08,790they call it measurement error?Yeah, it's like, it's this thing113001:14:08,790 --> 01:14:14,430we call being wrong wrong. Justwrong, is not a fancy term. It's113101:14:14,430 --> 01:14:18,690just what it is. But so they gointo this discussion about the113201:14:18,690 --> 01:14:22,890example of how it's supercritical that you have, so that113301:14:22,890 --> 01:14:25,830you define the term ceasefire,right, if you're asking about113401:14:25,830 --> 01:14:29,610Libya, for Israeli Gazaconflict, and you define Gaza113501:14:29,610 --> 01:14:33,480correctly, and you and they giveyou an example of like, five113601:14:33,480 --> 01:14:37,500possible work, questions youshould ask in order to encompass113701:14:37,770 --> 01:14:41,160all of the different points ofview, and all of the political113801:14:41,160 --> 01:14:44,160spectrums and all of thenationality and all of the113901:14:44,160 --> 01:14:46,830different backgrounds so thatnobody else and genders,114001:14:46,830 --> 01:14:50,100genders, genders, yes,everything you have to encompass114101:14:50,130 --> 01:14:53,610everything. So that takes atleast like five or six different114201:14:53,610 --> 01:14:57,750questions, but they does notactually what they did they use114301:14:57,750 --> 01:15:02,730the thing called forced choicein clip three. So for114401:15:02,730 --> 01:15:06,870Unknown: me, as an analyst ofpolls, I wouldn't know how to114501:15:06,870 --> 01:15:09,270interpret that data becauseeverybody's bringing their own114601:15:09,270 --> 01:15:12,840perspective to it. So instead,we had a forced choice option,114701:15:13,170 --> 01:15:16,380either Israel should stop itscampaign in order to protect114801:15:16,380 --> 01:15:19,320against civilian casualties,even if not all the hostages are114901:15:19,320 --> 01:15:22,980released, or Israel shouldcontinue its military campaign115001:15:23,010 --> 01:15:25,830until all the hostages arereleased, even if it means115101:15:25,830 --> 01:15:29,160civilian casualties in Gazamight continue. Now, a lot of115201:15:29,160 --> 01:15:31,680people might disagree with thoseanswer choices. And I think it's115301:15:31,680 --> 01:15:34,890very reasonable to disagree withthose as the only two answer115401:15:34,890 --> 01:15:37,920choices. But in doing that, weactually saw that the public is115501:15:37,920 --> 01:15:40,680fairly split on that question,which I think is interesting. I115601:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,070think a good survey questiondoes split the public more115701:15:44,070 --> 01:15:44,760evenly?115801:15:45,840 --> 01:15:48,660Adam Curry: answered? I lovethis. It's like, do these guys115901:15:48,660 --> 01:15:51,900killed those guys baby worsethan those guys kill those guys116001:15:51,900 --> 01:15:54,450babies worse? Give me youranswer.116101:15:55,380 --> 01:15:57,480Dave Jones: Everything that theysaid before about the116201:15:57,480 --> 01:16:00,840carefulness of questions and thewording, the criticality, and116301:16:00,840 --> 01:16:03,900the pause and the 15 possibledifferent answers you could do?116401:16:04,380 --> 01:16:07,290Forget all that. Forget allthat. We're just gonna give them116501:16:07,290 --> 01:16:10,470two. We're gonna give you twothings to choose from, but which116601:16:10,560 --> 01:16:14,490of which nobody probably agreed.And you know, and you know, why?116701:16:14,730 --> 01:16:16,710Why did they do that? Click for?116801:16:16,890 --> 01:16:20,160Todd Cochran: Did you considerhaving more than two choices? We116901:16:20,160 --> 01:16:23,460Unknown: did, we debated thatpretty heavily. And there were117001:16:23,460 --> 01:16:27,420times where we got close tohaving that as options. In the117101:16:27,420 --> 01:16:30,240end, it makes it a lot moredifficult to analyze the data,117201:16:30,270 --> 01:16:32,910the more options that youprovide. Oh,117301:16:33,900 --> 01:16:37,710Dave Jones: that's because it'shard. That's why they didn't do117401:16:37,710 --> 01:16:41,940it. Because it's hard. And itmakes it really difficult. Yeah.117501:16:41,970 --> 01:16:46,980So when you when you when you'retalking about surveys, in117601:16:46,980 --> 01:16:51,450research and research from thesefrom these agencies, you're117701:16:51,450 --> 01:16:54,750getting, you're getting nothingfrom them, you're getting117801:16:54,780 --> 01:16:56,010absolutely zero117901:16:56,040 --> 01:16:58,620Adam Curry: worse, worse, you'regetting what they want the118001:16:58,620 --> 01:17:01,200answer to be? Yes. forced118101:17:01,200 --> 01:17:04,710Dave Jones: choice. Now we knowthe term forced choice. We did a118201:17:04,710 --> 01:17:06,120forced choice question.118301:17:07,320 --> 01:17:09,810Kyrin Down: Have you seen thatrecent meme of a it was a guy118401:17:09,810 --> 01:17:13,980wearing like an hour longearphone or air pod or something118501:17:13,980 --> 01:17:17,790like that? And he's been tryingto some months? I think it's on118601:17:17,790 --> 01:17:21,150a college university campus orsomething like that. And a guy's118701:17:21,150 --> 01:17:23,640trying to force him to answerone of the questions and he's118801:17:23,640 --> 01:17:27,870just refusing like blatantly to,to answer it. And then it was118901:17:28,290 --> 01:17:29,580there was something related to119001:17:29,610 --> 01:17:31,230Adam Curry: that was Palestine.It was real. I119101:17:31,230 --> 01:17:34,740Kyrin Down: think it was. Yeah,yeah. And it's, that's exactly119201:17:34,740 --> 01:17:35,640that. No,119301:17:35,640 --> 01:17:37,770Adam Curry: I can't answer. Ican't speak about Palestine. I119401:17:37,770 --> 01:17:39,810can't speak about Hamas. No, Ican't talk about that.119501:17:40,590 --> 01:17:45,270Dave Jones: Yeah, like that. Soyour quit your, whenever it119601:17:45,270 --> 01:17:49,020comes to research, you'regetting the forced choice of,119701:17:49,260 --> 01:17:52,440because she said, it's just likebedding, you know, the bed. They119801:17:52,440 --> 01:17:56,970always say that the beddinglines are created in order to119901:17:56,970 --> 01:18:00,570get even money on both sides ofthe bed. Yeah. Like, and so it's120001:18:00,570 --> 01:18:03,990just it's the same thing withthis. She said, she said we did120101:18:03,990 --> 01:18:08,880a forced choice question so thatwe could get an even split. This120201:18:08,880 --> 01:18:12,960is all useless people come on,like and what Todd is cutting120301:18:12,960 --> 01:18:17,700through all of that Gordianknot, and saying, I don't care120401:18:17,700 --> 01:18:24,840what the research says, I knowwhat reality is. And reality is120501:18:24,870 --> 01:18:29,040if a bunch of podcasters go offand try to do video, they're120601:18:29,040 --> 01:18:31,830going to fail, and they're goingto be pissed. Yeah.120701:18:33,960 --> 01:18:37,980Kyrin Down: I can attest to someof the video stuff, which was120801:18:39,030 --> 01:18:42,480when the I think like, one ofthe reasons people are like,120901:18:42,480 --> 01:18:46,830what what are the reasons thatpodcasters are being suggested121001:18:46,830 --> 01:18:53,040to go to video? And it's, it'stypically because you feel like121101:18:53,040 --> 01:18:55,710you're talking into the void,you're not getting any like121201:18:55,710 --> 01:18:58,260reaction, you don't you don'tknow what's happening, you see121301:18:58,260 --> 01:19:01,680download numbers, and then theyreduced by 25%. And then you121401:19:01,680 --> 01:19:04,560realize, oh, wait, peopleweren't even, like they weren't121501:19:04,560 --> 01:19:10,950real anyway. And so video is, Ithink, being kind of touted as121601:19:10,950 --> 01:19:16,470that because you can see, youhave to stop playing the game of121701:19:16,470 --> 01:19:22,080algorithms, of course, but andvirality but you can look into121801:19:22,080 --> 01:19:25,530it, in essence, and this iswhere I was like, you know, I121901:19:25,530 --> 01:19:30,510did video of yours and I washalf kind of like half half122001:19:30,510 --> 01:19:35,130doing audio half half video interms of where my focus was. And122101:19:35,670 --> 01:19:38,700when you do it like that, you'renot going to succeed because you122201:19:38,700 --> 01:19:41,880need to be a YouTuber. So youneed to think about your122301:19:41,880 --> 01:19:46,320thumbnails more how you're goingto title things. The first 30122401:19:46,320 --> 01:19:49,830seconds needs to be supersnappy, so you get retention and122501:19:50,160 --> 01:19:53,310and all of these sorts ofthings. And so then that122601:19:53,310 --> 01:19:56,160ultimately gets through likewell, if you if you go in there122701:19:56,160 --> 01:20:01,320to try and get that has Somesort of audience petition122801:20:01,350 --> 01:20:05,100participation, what's linked tothat, you know, then then that's122901:20:05,100 --> 01:20:08,520probably related to the wholeadvertising and, and how you123001:20:08,520 --> 01:20:12,120make money from that as well.And that's just why I felt like123101:20:12,120 --> 01:20:15,120visa vie captured me, which wasjust it just cuts through all123201:20:15,120 --> 01:20:20,580that bullshit. And solves thosesuper easy, but not super the123301:20:20,610 --> 01:20:24,630problems that I was having waslike, What how do I know that123401:20:24,660 --> 01:20:28,890anyone's even listening? And,you know, getting a boost in and123501:20:28,890 --> 01:20:31,890a message just just cut throughall of that.123601:20:33,840 --> 01:20:35,850Dave Jones: That's what wasinteresting because yeah,123701:20:36,180 --> 01:20:39,270Adam Curry: what other thingshave you learned? Because you123801:20:39,270 --> 01:20:42,120have mere mortals Of course. Andthe value for value is have you123901:20:42,120 --> 01:20:44,310done two seasons the value forvalue podcast?124001:20:44,580 --> 01:20:45,150Kyrin Down: Three now? It's124101:20:46,860 --> 01:20:50,220Adam Curry: fine. So what haveyou What have you learned? I124201:20:50,220 --> 01:20:53,010mean, you you have been in themidst of it you've talked to124301:20:53,310 --> 01:20:56,670value for value people non valuefor value people, you know, you124401:20:56,670 --> 01:20:59,430doing views on video? Do youhave just pure audio? I mean,124501:20:59,430 --> 01:21:01,740tell me what what you reallylearned when what will you be124601:21:01,740 --> 01:21:04,110focusing on for 2024?124701:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,490Kyrin Down: It's great. Youasked that because the the124801:21:08,490 --> 01:21:11,520latest episode was was prettymuch just covering all that. And124901:21:11,520 --> 01:21:14,880so I can give you thehighlights. There's, I still125001:21:15,480 --> 01:21:20,790notice that with book reviews,for example, they tend to that125101:21:20,790 --> 01:21:24,150there's definitely an audiencemore on YouTube for that I think125201:21:24,150 --> 01:21:28,410then interested then slowly theaudio so for that one, I'm kind125301:21:28,410 --> 01:21:36,000of optimizing for the video. Andgoing. Still, it's still because125401:21:36,000 --> 01:21:40,290I don't like the viralitychasing spending all my time on125501:21:40,290 --> 01:21:43,860thumbnail sort of thing. Likeit's I don't know, I could still125601:21:43,860 --> 01:21:48,030be swayed from that. But I amdoing a lot more live, which125701:21:48,030 --> 01:21:50,070makes things a lot easier. Why125801:21:50,070 --> 01:21:53,910Adam Curry: do you think thatbooks book reviews work better?125901:21:53,940 --> 01:21:56,190Or in video? Or specificallyYouTube?126001:21:56,790 --> 01:21:59,910Kyrin Down: I have no idea.Yeah, this is the this is just126101:21:59,910 --> 01:22:04,500like the weird things where it'sjust perhaps because maybe a bit126201:22:04,500 --> 01:22:10,260more timeless in terms of beingpeople would would willing to126301:22:10,260 --> 01:22:18,480look up like a stoic bookwritten from the early BCS? And126401:22:18,840 --> 01:22:23,100maybe it's a bit more. Yeah.Evergreen in that how126501:22:23,100 --> 01:22:24,840Adam Curry: are you measuringthis? Are you measuring it by126601:22:24,840 --> 01:22:27,120views versus views,126701:22:27,120 --> 01:22:29,850Kyrin Down: but also just likeeven the booster grabs for126801:22:29,850 --> 01:22:33,030example, they don't really comeinto the the book reviews. And126901:22:33,030 --> 01:22:38,550I've kind of talked about thatas much as I have on across my127001:22:38,550 --> 01:22:44,730other shows. So that's one thingleaning into the audience and127101:22:44,730 --> 01:22:48,720where they're actually alreadyat. So if you heard on the pod127201:22:48,720 --> 01:22:52,320news, weekly review this lastone, they got a couple more127301:22:52,320 --> 01:22:54,660booster grams in from frompeople that have never heard of127401:22:54,660 --> 01:22:57,330before, which was ironicconsidering the week before they127501:22:57,330 --> 01:23:01,740were saying how they it's alljust the same, the same people127601:23:01,740 --> 01:23:08,250showing up and one of those guyswas was I boosted him just127701:23:08,250 --> 01:23:13,830before it was the late bloomeractor. And he was saying, you127801:23:13,830 --> 01:23:17,880know, I'm doing this I'm doingVP on my show, but no one's127901:23:18,090 --> 01:23:22,380boosting in or, or commenting oranything like that. And so I128001:23:22,380 --> 01:23:26,220went over to it, and I justsaid, like, Hey, by the way, you128101:23:26,220 --> 01:23:28,920probably need to go where thepeople already know about this128201:23:28,920 --> 01:23:34,140stuff is so yes, it helps if youhave a Bitcoin show because and128301:23:34,140 --> 01:23:37,380you see that in the fountaincharts, for example. Because128401:23:37,380 --> 01:23:41,730they kind of already know it andthat that experience is big128501:23:41,760 --> 01:23:45,270bitcoins hard to get it takes along time to kind of be128601:23:45,270 --> 01:23:48,930convinced by it or use it but asthese things get easier, I128701:23:48,930 --> 01:23:56,040definitely see leaning more intousing true fans using fountain128801:23:56,070 --> 01:24:01,080using the clipping on pod verseof the interactive features that128901:24:01,080 --> 01:24:04,800all these things have. Goinggoing to where people are129001:24:04,800 --> 01:24:06,630already starting to use stuffyou know, it's it's pretty,129101:24:07,050 --> 01:24:11,490pretty obvious but it also bearsrepeating. So going on to the129201:24:11,520 --> 01:24:16,110podcast index website, and andto the mastodon as well and129301:24:16,110 --> 01:24:20,790interacting there. So those arethe kind of big ones and yeah,129401:24:20,790 --> 01:24:26,070just with video, it's very muchit's, I just want to reiterate129501:24:26,070 --> 01:24:30,690just how completely different itis from podcasting. And it's,129601:24:31,290 --> 01:24:35,820it's worth not trying to evenwith just just putting a pretty129701:24:35,820 --> 01:24:39,180big distinction between the two.If you think you can just start129801:24:39,180 --> 01:24:43,890a video podcast and your yourworkflow, the end product is129901:24:43,890 --> 01:24:47,520going to be similar to the audioit's it's not it's going to be130001:24:47,640 --> 01:24:50,070it's going to be completelydifferent. And so you just have130101:24:50,070 --> 01:24:53,400to take the consequences ofthat. So if you want to be a130201:24:53,400 --> 01:24:56,430YouTuber, you know, go for it.Go ahead, but that's that's130301:24:56,430 --> 01:24:59,460pretty hard game some and takesa lot of time.130401:25:01,530 --> 01:25:05,370Dave Jones: Yeah, that that'sthe, the video thing. But I130501:25:05,370 --> 01:25:10,320think that it took me a littlebit to sort of get used to, to130601:25:10,320 --> 01:25:14,100get used to it now. Now I don'tlike, I have a workflow and it130701:25:14,100 --> 01:25:16,650just doesn't, it doesn't reallybother me anymore because I130801:25:16,650 --> 01:25:21,090know, I know that I don't haveto think about it 99% of the130901:25:21,090 --> 01:25:25,200time, until the only time I evereven think about the fact that131001:25:25,200 --> 01:25:31,050I'm doing video on this streamfor for no agenda tube is when131101:25:31,380 --> 01:25:34,050it when it gets towards the end,I have to do the donations and I131201:25:34,050 --> 01:25:38,220used to have to go and make sureI had my screens email up and131301:25:38,220 --> 01:25:38,550that kind of131401:25:38,550 --> 01:25:40,950Adam Curry: thing. You don'twant to show all the spreadsheet131501:25:40,950 --> 01:25:42,510in the email. Yeah,131601:25:42,540 --> 01:25:44,790Dave Jones: yeah, there's theemail, you know, like everybody131701:25:44,790 --> 01:25:48,360has a nice to see my email andstuff. So but but like, now with131801:25:48,360 --> 01:25:50,460the stream deck, it's eveneasier because there's a button131901:25:50,460 --> 01:25:54,330and my admin screen. So it'slike, I don't even really, I132001:25:54,330 --> 01:25:57,450don't even think about that thefact that there's video until132101:25:57,630 --> 01:26:01,320like an hour and a half into theshow. So it's fine but that but132201:26:01,320 --> 01:26:04,770that learning, but at thebeginning that's just all you're132301:26:04,770 --> 01:26:06,210thinking about your split brain.132401:26:06,990 --> 01:26:08,790Kyrin Down: Yeah, but you'relike you're not trying to grow132501:26:08,790 --> 01:26:11,880your video are you? Yeah, likeyeah, you're not No, no, no,132601:26:11,880 --> 01:26:12,780it's you get and132701:26:13,230 --> 01:26:15,360Dave Jones: in some weeks Idon't even do it. I mean, I'm132801:26:15,360 --> 01:26:16,320tired or something. Yeah.132901:26:16,710 --> 01:26:19,440Kyrin Down: And then also yourmonetization even though I hate133001:26:19,440 --> 01:26:23,670that word is not linked to howmany views you get on YouTube133101:26:23,670 --> 01:26:27,150whereas then that's what a lotof people are like, Oh, have I133201:26:27,150 --> 01:26:32,070got my 4000 hours for the yearhave I got my 1000 subscribers?133301:26:33,630 --> 01:26:37,350Car video, the ad payouts betteryou know, all that sort of133401:26:37,350 --> 01:26:37,560thing.133501:26:37,800 --> 01:26:41,550Adam Curry: You're my my brotherin law in Italy. My sister has133601:26:41,550 --> 01:26:47,880lived there now for 28 years, Ithink. And he is a quite well133701:26:47,880 --> 01:26:51,810known comedian. He's He's myage, like couple years younger133801:26:52,200 --> 01:26:58,470and he was very famous for inItaly you work for either check133901:26:58,470 --> 01:27:02,280a gory or used to be Berlusconi,of course, it's still the134001:27:02,280 --> 01:27:04,440Berlusconi organization eventhough he's dead in check, a134101:27:04,440 --> 01:27:06,510glorious kind of they're boththey're both gangsters. You134201:27:06,510 --> 01:27:09,990worked for this gangs, he workedfor that gangster. And so he134301:27:09,990 --> 01:27:14,070worked for the Czech gorygangster and he did a movie,134401:27:14,250 --> 01:27:18,210Pinocchio, but it was kind oflike a, an r slash almost X134501:27:18,210 --> 01:27:21,600rated version, you can imaginewhen the nose grows, and it was,134601:27:21,870 --> 01:27:26,070it was kind of like, a cult hit.Like every young guy in Italy,134701:27:26,070 --> 01:27:29,490like, oh, yeah, I remember thatone, you know, kind of like134801:27:29,490 --> 01:27:29,940faces134901:27:29,940 --> 01:27:31,950Dave Jones: of death, the mostItalian thing ever.135001:27:33,300 --> 01:27:35,760Adam Curry: But he's done. Youknow, he's on many, many small135101:27:35,760 --> 01:27:39,720features and things and he hitall of a sudden, he hit really135201:27:39,720 --> 01:27:43,740big on YouTube. And he wouldjust do like, like a joke a day135301:27:43,740 --> 01:27:48,210or something. And it just andyou know, he got the whole, you135401:27:48,210 --> 01:27:51,270know, the plaque, the little theYouTube award thing and135501:27:51,270 --> 01:27:56,310everything. And, and now, youknow, he of course, he got busy.135601:27:56,310 --> 01:27:59,340So he had no gigs and he's goingto gigs and then his numbers135701:27:59,340 --> 01:28:01,860really dropped off reallyquickly. And Willow, my my135801:28:01,860 --> 01:28:07,740sister, who just got her herdegree. She's a professor of135901:28:08,100 --> 01:28:12,630psychology, specifically onlinemedia. So she did a whole136001:28:12,630 --> 01:28:16,110dissertation on social mediavideo and on Tik Tok and136101:28:16,110 --> 01:28:18,780YouTube, she taught me a lotabout this stuff. And of course,136201:28:18,780 --> 01:28:23,370she had Italian numbers. And shehad good in with the Italian136301:28:23,370 --> 01:28:25,920YouTube, which is very specific,you know, so it's kind of a136401:28:25,950 --> 01:28:29,160segregated market. So you can,you can strip out a lot of stuff136501:28:29,160 --> 01:28:33,030that isn't important becauseit's not an Italian. And what136601:28:33,030 --> 01:28:36,600she learned was a you have tofeed the algo. But she also136701:28:36,600 --> 01:28:40,410learned that if he the title ofhis video, if it was something136801:28:40,410 --> 01:28:45,450like his joke was the brokenumbrella. And he would title it136901:28:45,450 --> 01:28:48,330the broken umbrella, the viewswould go through the roof, and137001:28:48,330 --> 01:28:51,510she went to an analyze, and it'sbecause people are on Google137101:28:51,510 --> 01:28:56,670looking for a broken umbrella.How to fix a broken umbrella.137201:28:57,570 --> 01:29:00,840And then they wind up at hisvideo and that was the nut137301:29:00,840 --> 01:29:05,640that's the number one driver isis Google Search dries views to137401:29:05,640 --> 01:29:07,830video of course people thenclick on it. Oh, that's a funny137501:29:07,830 --> 01:29:10,890joke. But that's, that's reallyovo137601:29:10,890 --> 01:29:19,050Dave Jones: place. Yes. It's aGoogle SEO juice. This is also137701:29:19,050 --> 01:29:19,560gross.137801:29:20,970 --> 01:29:24,930Adam Curry: Not as gross as thisbaby. Come on. Let's talk about137901:29:24,930 --> 01:29:31,800it for a moment. You want to seemy Pinocchio video? Just tried138001:29:31,800 --> 01:29:32,100to wait.138101:29:33,540 --> 01:29:36,450Dave Jones: Wait. That's justthat's just like so good. We138201:29:36,600 --> 01:29:38,790don't we don't want podcastingto be that. No,138301:29:38,790 --> 01:29:41,250Adam Curry: of course not. Ofcourse they won't be it won't138401:29:41,250 --> 01:29:41,580be.138501:29:42,180 --> 01:29:42,900Dave Jones: We're smart.138601:29:42,930 --> 01:29:44,700Adam Curry: We're smart. We'reintelligence over here. We're138701:29:44,700 --> 01:29:45,390intelligent,138801:29:45,930 --> 01:29:53,340Dave Jones: man. So I've beenI'm going to have to post this138901:29:53,340 --> 01:29:59,700code publicly. Because I'mbeating my head against the139001:29:59,700 --> 01:30:02,700wall. TRY TO GET HTTP soonsignatures working in139101:30:02,700 --> 01:30:03,450activitypub139201:30:05,100 --> 01:30:08,550Adam Curry: is for the edifyingof the index? Yes,139301:30:09,450 --> 01:30:13,710Dave Jones: I admit it, I am, Iam almost close to defeat on139401:30:13,710 --> 01:30:19,050this. I cannot figure it out.I'm at the point where I've been139501:30:19,050 --> 01:30:23,610looking at it for too long. AndI can't see my own mistakes at139601:30:23,610 --> 01:30:29,040this point of that I've got I'mcomparing. I'm comparing my rust139701:30:29,040 --> 01:30:36,450code to John Spurlock's mini pubcode. And I cannot see what I'm139801:30:36,450 --> 01:30:39,960doing different. And like hishis in JavaScript mods and Russ,139901:30:39,960 --> 01:30:43,230I'm having to do sometranslation there. But it's a,140001:30:43,890 --> 01:30:49,740it's a fairly straightforwardthing. You hash the body of the140101:30:49,740 --> 01:30:56,700request. And when so this, sohere's where I'm at. The140201:30:56,700 --> 01:31:02,700database is the database ismostly there, it's functional. I140301:31:02,700 --> 01:31:07,860can accept follow requests.That's been fine for a long140401:31:07,860 --> 01:31:13,380time. But then when I tried toaccept the follow request, that140501:31:13,380 --> 01:31:17,100involves sending an acceptmessage back to the originating140601:31:17,100 --> 01:31:21,270server, in order to make thatfunction, there has to be an140701:31:21,270 --> 01:31:24,780HTTP signature, which there hasto be for a lot of interactions.140801:31:24,780 --> 01:31:28,230But this is the firstinteraction that's needing it.140901:31:28,230 --> 01:31:31,530So I'm doing that part. Now.When I send back the141001:31:31,530 --> 01:31:35,550acknowledgement to show that,yes, the follow is okay, you're141101:31:35,550 --> 01:31:43,770now following properly, the HTTPrequest has to be signed, which141201:31:43,770 --> 01:31:47,610means it just needs a signatureheader. The signature header can141301:31:47,850 --> 01:31:58,380consist of hashing the body ofthe request, with SHA 256, base141401:31:58,380 --> 01:32:08,01064, encoding it, then includingit in the digest header, then141501:32:08,010 --> 01:32:13,080taking the digest header, andincluding that with some other141601:32:13,080 --> 01:32:19,110headers, and hashing all of thatwith SHA 256 And then signing it141701:32:20,280 --> 01:32:24,990with the private key. That's,and then inserting that as141801:32:24,990 --> 01:32:29,940what's as the signature header.I don't know what I'm doing141901:32:29,940 --> 01:32:30,660wrong, because I142001:32:30,660 --> 01:32:33,090Adam Curry: can't Oh, I know, Iknow what you're doing wrong.142101:32:33,120 --> 01:32:38,520All of it, what all of it. Okay,you should make love to your142201:32:38,520 --> 01:32:39,660wife do something else.142301:32:40,500 --> 01:32:42,570Unknown: Stop this is Christmas.142401:32:44,280 --> 01:32:47,820Dave Jones: What am I doing?I've got I'm just gonna have to142501:32:47,820 --> 01:32:52,380post publicly and have somebodylook and say, Hey, idiot,142601:32:52,380 --> 01:32:55,440you're, you're missing a newlinecharacter here or something like142701:32:55,440 --> 01:32:57,060that. Like, I think bracket,142801:32:57,180 --> 01:32:59,820Adam Curry: bracket, there's gotto be a bracket. It's something142901:32:59,820 --> 01:33:03,270Dave Jones: like it's somethingsimple because like, it's just143001:33:03,270 --> 01:33:07,080not, I can't figure it out. SoI'm going to do that. This143101:33:07,080 --> 01:33:11,790weekend, I'm going to post it.And then I'm appealing for help.143201:33:11,790 --> 01:33:14,940Because if I can get this, thishas been owning me for a week143301:33:14,940 --> 01:33:19,920now to every bit every bit ofevery bit of coding time that I143401:33:19,920 --> 01:33:26,820get. I'm going back to this. SoI built a whole a built a new143501:33:26,820 --> 01:33:33,480project with just that with withjust the signing code in it. And143601:33:33,480 --> 01:33:36,660then I've compiled you know, soI can compile it and rapid,143701:33:36,900 --> 01:33:40,500rapidly just iterate on justthat where I'm taking Okay,143801:33:40,770 --> 01:33:44,820here's a J here's a JSON body.And here's my private key. I143901:33:44,820 --> 01:33:48,480just want to do this. And itjust gives me the weird144001:33:48,480 --> 01:33:50,820Adam Curry: result. Have youtried Chad GPT144101:33:52,230 --> 01:33:56,010Dave Jones: have not tried yetto be chatty. Why not kick on144201:33:58,050 --> 01:34:00,660Adam Curry: the free chat. Okay,144301:34:01,170 --> 01:34:03,600Dave Jones: I'm not giving thema phone number. I need a local144401:34:03,600 --> 01:34:05,010LLM Well,144501:34:05,040 --> 01:34:08,070Adam Curry: I got one I got anLLM. Can you ask that question144601:34:08,070 --> 01:34:11,760for me? If you if you send methe question, I can sure144701:34:11,790 --> 01:34:13,740Dave Jones: just take thetranscript of this show.144801:34:16,140 --> 01:34:19,680Adam Curry: Okay, somebody saysall right, minds rather slow but144901:34:19,680 --> 01:34:20,430yes, I will.145001:34:22,710 --> 01:34:30,990Dave Jones: So that if I can getpast this then like, then145101:34:30,990 --> 01:34:34,950everything will fall into placebecause the the activity pub145201:34:34,950 --> 01:34:42,660bridge is going to is is goingto be important. I had a long145301:34:42,660 --> 01:34:46,830conversation with my buddy Timthe other day about about this a145401:34:46,830 --> 01:34:49,050bit. We're talking about nostreand activity pub and all kinds145501:34:49,050 --> 01:34:55,470of things. And I just think thatactivity Pub is WordPress is is145601:34:55,770 --> 01:35:00,120got the new activity pub plugin.I feel like activity Pub is I'm145701:35:01,110 --> 01:35:04,830about to blow up. As far asadoption goes, it145801:35:04,830 --> 01:35:06,090Adam Curry: sure seems that way.145901:35:07,140 --> 01:35:11,670Dave Jones: It's coiling isabout to coil load. Yeah. Yeah.146001:35:11,670 --> 01:35:14,280So I really think this isimportant for people to be able146101:35:14,280 --> 01:35:17,670to natively interact withpodcasts, you know, stuff over146201:35:17,700 --> 01:35:20,940activity pub, so I'll post it,and then everybody can tell me146301:35:20,940 --> 01:35:21,990where I'm doing it.146401:35:22,500 --> 01:35:25,200Adam Curry: Shall we thank a fewpeople. Oh, yeah, sure.146501:35:25,230 --> 01:35:25,920Dave Jones: Let's thanks forpeople.146601:35:26,760 --> 01:35:28,770Adam Curry: And we've got we'vebeen getting some live booths146701:35:28,800 --> 01:35:33,720during this boardroom afterdark. Now can code has showed up146801:35:33,720 --> 01:35:37,230and I you know, I have myhelipad open all day long. And146901:35:37,230 --> 01:35:41,670he's a hayver. So he's got a lotof a lot of boosts and I'm not147001:35:41,670 --> 01:35:45,360quite sure exactly. Hive tube.What exactly is hive tube?147101:35:45,990 --> 01:35:49,260Dave Jones: Yeah, that's hivetube is the fork of a peer to147201:35:49,260 --> 01:35:52,590two with with all of Alex'sstuff in it.147301:35:52,830 --> 01:35:57,690Adam Curry: And does it do is itdoes it work on hive, or does it147401:35:57,690 --> 01:36:01,230work on? Enlightened not?147501:36:01,230 --> 01:36:02,790Dave Jones: I don't think it'shigh specific. I147601:36:02,790 --> 01:36:04,380Adam Curry: think it's justcalled hive tube.147701:36:04,980 --> 01:36:08,010Dave Jones: thinks of it. Well,okay, I may be wrong. Well, he147801:36:08,010 --> 01:36:11,400Adam Curry: has a lot to say.1000 SATs from ENCODE cast dot147901:36:11,400 --> 01:36:16,050garden. A podcast host poweredby hype tube pushes the p2p live148001:36:16,050 --> 01:36:21,780streaming cross app comments andsyndication hardcore. Now the148101:36:21,780 --> 01:36:25,0501000s that to look forward toway less ads or more boosts and148201:36:25,050 --> 01:36:28,620hive rewards. Okay, so that'sdefinitely hot. There's148301:36:28,620 --> 01:36:32,430definitely likes and tips. Oh,that's how I get to and148401:36:32,430 --> 01:36:36,750podcasters then we have threefive to one from Renee caneta.148501:36:36,900 --> 01:36:40,710Hello, Renee says woke up towalk our new puppy at 330 in the148601:36:40,710 --> 01:36:43,230morning he's in Holland,sleeping on the couch to keep148701:36:43,230 --> 01:36:44,970her company great to hear youguys live.148801:36:46,050 --> 01:36:47,880Dave Jones: Get a hate Listen,it's easier.148901:36:48,360 --> 01:36:52,020Adam Curry: It's better. It'sbetter than that. 12345 from149001:36:52,020 --> 01:36:57,060hard hat Merry Christmas. Thankyou hard fat. Sup Yo sup? Short149101:36:57,060 --> 01:37:04,080Row ducks. He gave to karmapluses to blueberry with 2222149201:37:04,170 --> 01:37:11,130Salty Crayon 1976. Love thehotspot. Love the hot namespace149301:37:11,130 --> 01:37:14,190talk in these hours getoffended. I'm saying Merry149401:37:14,190 --> 01:37:19,770Christmas. I love what Adobedoes. I love Adobe does has149501:37:19,770 --> 01:37:22,890accomplished in the V for V LiveConcert I'm loyal to building149601:37:22,890 --> 01:37:26,610with those IT structure I lovewhat we are building I'm all in149701:37:26,610 --> 01:37:29,310five by five Ford support yourlocal independent party149801:37:29,340 --> 01:37:36,540independent artists go podcasts.And various Dred Scott like he149901:37:36,540 --> 01:37:39,390hasn't supported the entireindustry enough. He comes in150001:37:39,390 --> 01:37:45,720with 60,000 SATs super boost, hesays we get 11,111 from150101:37:45,720 --> 01:37:48,360blueberry. There's so muchthat's been running through my150201:37:48,360 --> 01:37:51,240mind over the last week. It's anexperience that will close hold150301:37:51,240 --> 01:37:55,770closely for a long, long time.And to finish what I started on150401:37:55,770 --> 01:37:58,770the next before the schemes, Iwill be reading off every single150501:37:58,770 --> 01:38:02,250boost that came through. In thewords of Alex Jones. I have to150601:38:02,250 --> 01:38:03,150do it all.150701:38:05,220 --> 01:38:06,690Dave Jones: Is that did Alex saythat I150801:38:06,690 --> 01:38:11,550Adam Curry: guess? More like Ihave to do it. Eric peepee150901:38:11,550 --> 01:38:17,31033,333 No, nope. Thank you. Wehave Chad F with 1000 SATs pod151001:38:17,310 --> 01:38:20,790verse has IRC chat. But onmobile if you switch apps for151101:38:20,790 --> 01:38:24,570too long you get kicked out ofthe chat room ah yes this is151201:38:24,600 --> 01:38:27,150another thing that we've seenthe iOS seems to be really151301:38:27,150 --> 01:38:30,000crappy with stuff going in thebackground that's for sure.151401:38:30,600 --> 01:38:32,670Dave Jones: really crappy dotdot dot now.151501:38:33,930 --> 01:38:38,220Adam Curry: Let's see herbivoreband. 300 SATs Thank you151601:38:38,250 --> 01:38:45,600anonymous podcast guru user 2222says go chyron as 6000 SATs when151701:38:45,600 --> 01:38:50,640kind of courses in our our valueblock today. 6000 SATs from Dred151801:38:50,640 --> 01:38:53,520Scott cleaning Why Boost cannonsafter the last two days of V For151901:38:53,520 --> 01:38:57,870me music boosting Oh, he justcleans his cannon and it's 6000152001:38:57,870 --> 01:39:01,110SATs that's how it goes.Sometimes it just squirts out.152101:39:01,560 --> 01:39:05,220Tone record 5150 scrapingtogether some support SATs after152201:39:05,220 --> 01:39:08,670last night's Minneapolis musicstreams was a great night props152301:39:08,670 --> 01:39:12,300to the builders who made itpossible. The I had to reload my152401:39:12,840 --> 01:39:15,090my wallet a couple times to wasfun.152501:39:16,560 --> 01:39:19,560Dave Jones: I loaded I loaded itup with about 50 bucks on152601:39:19,590 --> 01:39:25,350Adam Curry: Yeah, it was fun toload load load. Let's see Dobby152701:39:25,350 --> 01:39:29,250lost 20,000 SATs. I won't beable to listen live will be busy152801:39:29,250 --> 01:39:32,550sleeping I bet. But MerryChristmas Adam Dave and Karen152901:39:32,550 --> 01:39:35,400Thank you brother for yourChristmas. And I think yeah,153001:39:35,430 --> 01:39:38,190that's that's where we are withthe live boosts.153101:39:38,850 --> 01:39:42,390Dave Jones: Okay, well, MarcoArma gave us $500 through PayPal153201:39:44,820 --> 01:39:47,49020 is Blaze on him. Paula,153301:39:47,520 --> 01:39:49,890Adam Curry: thank you Marco. Weso appreciate that you support153401:39:49,890 --> 01:39:50,400us brother.153501:39:51,180 --> 01:39:53,760Dave Jones: Thank you, Monica.That's appreciate that and Merry153601:39:53,760 --> 01:39:56,640Christmas to you and yours.Thank you for all support every153701:39:56,640 --> 01:40:03,000month forever. Appreciate that.We've got Some boosts we've got.153801:40:03,570 --> 01:40:07,320Oh, Chris from Jupiterbroadcasting Chris last. Do153901:40:07,320 --> 01:40:12,360fountain 68,848 booths nice154001:40:12,360 --> 01:40:12,840Adam Curry: thank you.154101:40:12,870 --> 01:40:16,650Dave Jones: He says Davecheckout bit focus, bit focus to154201:40:16,650 --> 01:40:20,190go with that stream deck onLinux. We use it to control OBS154301:40:20,190 --> 01:40:24,000soundboard, our da W and runscripts via SSH connections.154401:40:24,120 --> 01:40:27,060That focus is worth the 15minutes to try with the stream154501:40:27,060 --> 01:40:31,290deck on Linux. Happy Holidays,guys. You sent me a screenshot154601:40:31,290 --> 01:40:32,730of this. Yes,154701:40:32,760 --> 01:40:35,250Adam Curry: if right after somehelipad? Yeah, exactly. Because154801:40:35,250 --> 01:40:37,980I'm like, Oh, this is whatinstead of Dave going off to154901:40:37,980 --> 01:40:40,860build a Windows box and likethis one nightstand,155001:40:41,190 --> 01:40:45,330Dave Jones: which I did build aWindows box. And then I and then155101:40:45,330 --> 01:40:48,360you sent me a screenshot of thisthat night after I had already155201:40:48,360 --> 01:40:52,560built it. So I said, Oh, screwit. I'll try this. As what I'm155301:40:52,560 --> 01:40:55,260using right now. I'm using bitfocus on you. Right, it's155401:40:55,260 --> 01:40:59,190awesome. Cool. Cool. What? Dowhat,155501:40:59,820 --> 01:41:07,140Kyrin Down: what booths numberwas that? 6868 848 848 Because155601:41:07,140 --> 01:41:09,180they do um, zip code boosts over155701:41:10,920 --> 01:41:13,710Adam Curry: there. They do coolstuff like that. I like the zip155801:41:13,710 --> 01:41:14,970code boost. That is cool.155901:41:15,270 --> 01:41:19,020Dave Jones: See what zip code68/8 Lincoln,156001:41:19,680 --> 01:41:24,690Kyrin Down: Nebraska. Nebraska.156101:41:25,140 --> 01:41:29,790Dave Jones: He's in Washington.Maybe coincidence?156201:41:31,470 --> 01:41:33,330Adam Curry: The stream deckshould I get one just to have it156301:41:33,330 --> 01:41:36,150in my house? I mean, is the dogis a cool? Is it something I156401:41:36,150 --> 01:41:39,600just need in my life? The streamdeck? Yeah. From not streaming.156501:41:40,140 --> 01:41:46,200Dave Jones: What I mean? It's itdoes so much like it's killer156601:41:46,200 --> 01:41:51,420because it doesn't just do it'sbasically an outboard macro.156701:41:52,200 --> 01:41:57,570Macro runner. Yeah. So you canyou can make it do it. You can156801:41:57,570 --> 01:42:02,430make it do automation stuff. Soyou can have it turn on wall156901:42:02,430 --> 01:42:08,430outlets. You can have it sendSSH commands to servers. Oh,157001:42:08,430 --> 01:42:14,490nice. Oh, it dude, it's badass.It is so cool. It's fairly yeah,157101:42:14,490 --> 01:42:17,460I've barely scratched thesurface with it. But it as long157201:42:17,460 --> 01:42:23,100as you have the right so so thesoftware runs as a daemon on the157301:42:23,100 --> 01:42:27,960computer and then you in the newhabit connect to like a web157401:42:27,960 --> 01:42:31,410socket, or something like that.So OBS as a web socket, and then157501:42:31,410 --> 01:42:34,860the day the daemon connects toOBS through that and then157601:42:34,890 --> 01:42:40,170monitors the connection. So thenyou can have it connect to other157701:42:40,200 --> 01:42:43,350daemons that do other things soyou can have at launch software157801:42:43,350 --> 01:42:47,550on your computer trigger soundsit could be a MIDI control it157901:42:47,550 --> 01:42:52,230he's like do everything Wow.Yeah, it's it was it was yeah,158001:42:52,230 --> 01:42:57,870it's badass. Thanks, Chris.Appreciate that. We get Sir158101:42:57,870 --> 01:43:03,690Brian of London 21 940 SuperIsraeli is 21 948 through cast158201:43:03,690 --> 01:43:06,720ematic he says I think I'm luckyhere in Israel. I get rockets158301:43:06,720 --> 01:43:13,380from Hamas. Sure, but I have abomb shelter. No ads. Meantime,158401:43:13,380 --> 01:43:15,030I get no ads and news Ah158501:43:17,190 --> 01:43:20,070Adam Curry: well, there's thatthere's no ads in newsagent. But158601:43:20,070 --> 01:43:22,770yeah, there's rockets you know,it's mine. Yeah, that's158701:43:22,770 --> 01:43:23,340Dave Jones: a trade off158801:43:23,400 --> 01:43:25,530Adam Curry: I love how there'sno reporting on the rockets158901:43:25,530 --> 01:43:27,600because the rockets just keepcoming. I159001:43:27,600 --> 01:43:32,550Dave Jones: mean, like every fewhours Yeah, I think I hear where159101:43:32,550 --> 01:43:36,360they're supposed to run butstraight back to the show. VPN159201:43:36,360 --> 01:43:39,030to Israel for that ad freeexperience. Merry Christmas.159301:43:39,090 --> 01:43:41,580Adam Curry: Merry Christmas.Happy Hanukkah was over now.159401:43:42,660 --> 01:43:48,750Dave Jones: Or as we say in thesouth Chaka Chaka y'all. Up in159501:43:48,750 --> 01:43:52,4101984 4000. SAS through familysays I apologize for159601:43:52,410 --> 01:43:54,600apologizing. lol MerryChristmas.159701:43:54,630 --> 01:43:57,270Adam Curry: Merry Christmas.It's okay. Apology accepted.159801:43:57,540 --> 01:43:58,620Yes. Both of159901:43:58,620 --> 01:44:02,880Dave Jones: them. Mark Lundgren,essentially Richard 1111 through160001:44:03,090 --> 01:44:07,0201000. He says boot. Didn't havea boot. Oh, I did have a boot160101:44:07,020 --> 01:44:07,500last week.160201:44:08,040 --> 01:44:12,870Adam Curry: I went silent.Where's my booze? Is it? Oh,160301:44:14,820 --> 01:44:15,420somewhere.160401:44:16,350 --> 01:44:19,200Dave Jones: There's I got a slewof ISOs. I160501:44:19,200 --> 01:44:21,750Adam Curry: know I already have.I want to know. Thank you. I160601:44:21,750 --> 01:44:24,270have one queued up. I haven'teven heard it, but I think it's160701:44:24,270 --> 01:44:24,600good.160801:44:25,260 --> 01:44:28,050Dave Jones: Okay, Mary Oscar,also known as Oscar marrieds.160901:44:28,080 --> 01:44:31,86010,000 SATs do fountain Thankyou, Mary Oscar. He says161001:44:31,860 --> 01:44:34,560resolving the case. And addressis really not that big of a161101:44:34,560 --> 01:44:38,430lift. In my opinion. Apps cancache the results just like they161201:44:38,430 --> 01:44:40,770already cache lots of otherinformation about the podcast161301:44:40,770 --> 01:44:44,460episode feed. But another notefountain point 1.0 live next161401:44:44,460 --> 01:44:46,020week. Yeah, it's161501:44:46,020 --> 01:44:48,660Adam Curry: killer. All the newversions of the apps are killer.161601:44:48,690 --> 01:44:51,750They're just all great. Like yousaid earlier like we've we've161701:44:51,750 --> 01:44:57,420grown up our children have grownup. Oh, yes, yes. Blonde161801:44:57,420 --> 01:45:00,210Dave Jones: Jr. They they've allcrossed the threshold. into161901:45:00,210 --> 01:45:03,810being very stable, reliable,fast apps fast.162001:45:03,810 --> 01:45:08,460Adam Curry: Yeah, fast and justeasy to navigate. Things are162101:45:08,460 --> 01:45:10,560working. It's beautiful. It'sbeautiful.162201:45:11,160 --> 01:45:14,010Kyrin Down: I wish I'd takenmore screenshots of the of the162301:45:14,010 --> 01:45:17,070apps just to be able to lookback and you know, two years ago162401:45:17,070 --> 01:45:20,130what it looked like, just likewhen sometimes on Macedon, I'll162501:45:20,130 --> 01:45:25,260go back and see, you know, Adam,you talked about having 58,000162601:45:25,260 --> 01:45:28,680SATs throwing flowing throughthe podcast index per day.162701:45:32,070 --> 01:45:35,160Adam Curry: Oh, that's great.Yeah. 50,000 a day ladies and162801:45:35,160 --> 01:45:37,080gentlemen, can you believe howlong ago was that three years162901:45:37,080 --> 01:45:38,190ago? to163001:45:39,150 --> 01:45:39,630Kyrin Down: two years?163101:45:39,930 --> 01:45:41,280Adam Curry: That's fantastic.163201:45:41,730 --> 01:45:43,950Dave Jones: Let's see we've gotover the last seven days I'm163301:45:43,950 --> 01:45:45,660looking at my dentist163401:45:45,660 --> 01:45:48,390Adam Curry: sent me before andafter my teeth that was scary.163501:45:49,080 --> 01:45:50,130Hey, oh yeah,163601:45:50,190 --> 01:45:51,630Dave Jones: you probably want tojust burn now. I163701:45:51,630 --> 01:45:55,740Adam Curry: totally I'm notposting it over163801:45:55,740 --> 01:46:00,540Dave Jones: the last seven days18,004,632 says163901:46:00,570 --> 01:46:03,660Adam Curry: Wow, wow. Wow. So164001:46:03,660 --> 01:46:07,320Dave Jones: it's about it's alittle it's it's a little over164101:46:07,320 --> 01:46:13,110$1,000 A day going through? Genebeen 1337 through cast Matic he164201:46:13,110 --> 01:46:16,320says Adam for what it's worthChris Fisher at Jupiter164301:46:16,320 --> 01:46:18,630broadcasting has been talkingabout the podcast winter for164401:46:18,630 --> 01:46:21,270quite a long time now. Imentioned this simply to say164501:46:21,270 --> 01:46:23,580it's not just you that sees it.Did it164601:46:23,580 --> 01:46:25,920Adam Curry: does he call it thepodcast winter though the actual164701:46:25,920 --> 01:46:29,220podcast winter that'sinteresting. No,164801:46:30,360 --> 01:46:33,870Kyrin Down: ad apocalypse orsomething like that. Okay, well,164901:46:33,900 --> 01:46:39,450Adam Curry: same. But podcastWinters is a is a bigger flows165001:46:39,450 --> 01:46:45,030from the ad pocalypse and fromSpotify is failure and be just165101:46:45,030 --> 01:46:49,470bad news all around. No badnews. Meanwhile, it's not bad165201:46:49,470 --> 01:46:51,720news. The bad this is a greattime to be a podcast and165301:46:51,720 --> 01:46:55,560especially to be have music inyour podcast. Oh, what an165401:46:55,560 --> 01:46:56,430exciting time.165501:46:57,030 --> 01:47:02,850Kyrin Down: I'm gonna pull myshows. That was baffling value165601:47:02,850 --> 01:47:05,880for value music because like theintros and pre live stream165701:47:05,910 --> 01:47:07,050echoes livestream.165801:47:07,320 --> 01:47:08,160Adam Curry: Excellent.165901:47:09,060 --> 01:47:11,970Dave Jones: It's a podcastwinner but it's a music summer.166001:47:13,140 --> 01:47:17,820Ellen see Paul 2000 sets thefountain he says spot on the166101:47:17,820 --> 01:47:20,490music analogy is veryappropriate. And it's the same166201:47:20,490 --> 01:47:23,190thing that happened in the musicindustry. Individuality was166301:47:23,190 --> 01:47:26,070squashed in an effort to makemasses follow along.166401:47:27,120 --> 01:47:29,820Adam Curry: I think Alan C.Paul, I think I've met him at166501:47:29,820 --> 01:47:31,590the SPARC media conference.166601:47:32,460 --> 01:47:34,710Dave Jones: Oh, interesting.Yeah, I was I don't recognize166701:47:34,710 --> 01:47:36,390that name. He's a new booster.Yes.166801:47:36,390 --> 01:47:42,240Adam Curry: He sent us a he sentTina and I send us a a 21 day166901:47:42,240 --> 01:47:46,320devotional for creatives, whichis pretty interesting. Just been167001:47:46,320 --> 01:47:48,720following. Yeah. I think that'sI think that's alizee Paul.167101:47:48,750 --> 01:47:49,710Yeah. Oh, man.167201:47:51,300 --> 01:47:55,320Dave Jones: Cole McCormick 7777.Through fountain striper boost.167301:47:55,740 --> 01:47:57,990He says if you want to continuethe discussion of the alternate167401:47:57,990 --> 01:48:00,810enclosure and what hostingcompanies can do better at check167501:48:00,810 --> 01:48:04,680out episode 101 of America plusthe creator of pot home Barry167601:48:04,860 --> 01:48:07,290spoke with me about his visionand plan for the company. He's167701:48:07,290 --> 01:48:09,180legit go podcasting. I167801:48:09,180 --> 01:48:11,070Adam Curry: heard thatinterview. I listened to that167901:48:11,070 --> 01:48:14,550interview. It was great. It wasit was also deep about about168001:48:14,550 --> 01:48:21,060Barry himself and his backgroundand, you know, mushrooms and Oh,168101:48:21,060 --> 01:48:24,270yeah. Oh, yeah. That was aninteresting conversation. That's168201:48:24,270 --> 01:48:27,270a pretty fun podcast. Listen toOh, okay,168301:48:27,300 --> 01:48:30,570Dave Jones: podcast, hosting andshrooms. Alright? We need to get168401:48:30,570 --> 01:48:31,230baryons here.168501:48:31,650 --> 01:48:33,180Adam Curry: We do. Yeah. Yeah.168601:48:33,510 --> 01:48:36,390Dave Jones: Gene Everett 3333through fat and he says boost168701:48:36,390 --> 01:48:44,760the dude. Okay. whooshed KevinBay. Oh, baller bass 122523168801:48:44,760 --> 01:48:45,480through pod verse.168901:48:45,510 --> 01:48:49,350Adam Curry: Whoa. Whoa, nice.Thank you.169001:48:49,920 --> 01:48:52,170Dave Jones: Thank you, Kevin. Hesays Christmas boost. Merry169101:48:52,170 --> 01:48:53,040Christmas, gentlemen.169201:48:53,100 --> 01:48:53,940Unknown: Merry Christmas.169301:48:54,690 --> 01:48:55,320Kyrin Down: Merry Christmas.169401:48:56,070 --> 01:48:58,500Dave Jones: Yeah. Thanks, Kevin.Appreciate that. Kevin has been169501:48:58,500 --> 01:49:03,840around forever. He's a longtimeJohn. See if we got some from169601:49:03,840 --> 01:49:10,380John as JC 2233 through podverse says Merry Christmas guys.169701:49:10,380 --> 01:49:13,560By the way, Adam, how is Texasslim doing is he's still around.169801:49:13,620 --> 01:49:16,830Adam Curry: Oh, good question.Texas. Slim was in Thailand for169901:49:16,830 --> 01:49:21,360several months. And, you know,he had intended to retire there170001:49:21,360 --> 01:49:25,530before he got dragged into intosaving American children by170101:49:25,530 --> 01:49:30,300getting to eat American beef,grass fed grain finished beef.170201:49:30,750 --> 01:49:35,070And he was basically doing atour through northern Thailand170301:49:35,070 --> 01:49:40,740on motorcycle. If he's badass.Okay, yeah, yes. But I think170401:49:40,740 --> 01:49:45,030he's he may maybe he might havecome back today or two days ago.170501:49:45,270 --> 01:49:49,230So I think you'll see Texas limbstart to crank up some stuff170601:49:49,230 --> 01:49:49,590again.170701:49:50,940 --> 01:49:54,750Dave Jones: I rode a motorcyclefor many years. And I like as170801:49:54,750 --> 01:50:01,860like every day to work and back.And I wrote a Add a BMW 650170901:50:01,860 --> 01:50:04,500Adam Curry: GS. Oh, was thiswith a cylinder sticking out on171001:50:04,500 --> 01:50:06,000the side? No, that's171101:50:06,000 --> 01:50:11,490Dave Jones: the 1200 job I lovedI had 650 this thing got set up171201:50:11,550 --> 01:50:14,460over 70 miles to the gallon.That's why That's why I wrote171301:50:14,460 --> 01:50:19,320it. But it was it was a crosscountry just like the 1200 gs171401:50:19,320 --> 01:50:23,430like it could go anywhere. Yeah,but but the guy that bought it171501:50:23,430 --> 01:50:27,120from me. And when I finally soldit at the guy that bought it171601:50:27,120 --> 01:50:32,580from me he was he worse up inthe defense in the defense area171701:50:32,580 --> 01:50:37,650up in north Alabama. So he wouldwork for I don't know what I171801:50:37,650 --> 01:50:40,860think he's the Texas them stuffreminded me this he would work171901:50:40,860 --> 01:50:46,920for like three years, and thenbuild up enough cash. And then172001:50:46,920 --> 01:50:52,440he would him and his dad wouldgo and buy motorcycles and like,172101:50:53,070 --> 01:50:57,390spend a year going across somecontinent and wow. And then they172201:50:57,390 --> 01:50:59,550would come back and he wouldjust do it all over again. He172301:50:59,550 --> 01:51:03,720just did this cycle. Like it.Yeah, it's crazy, man. It's like172401:51:03,720 --> 01:51:08,580he was going he was buying mymotorcycle to ride across West172501:51:08,580 --> 01:51:09,120Africa172601:51:09,300 --> 01:51:13,440Adam Curry: was so like Texasslim. No wife. No kids. Pretty172701:51:13,440 --> 01:51:16,950much. Uh huh. There's acorrelation there for something.172801:51:16,980 --> 01:51:17,880Yes, there is.172901:51:18,330 --> 01:51:22,530Dave Jones: J Moon 5033 says thepodcast index he says Merry173001:51:22,530 --> 01:51:25,830Christmas, gentlemen, to you andyour families. Thank you. Thank173101:51:25,830 --> 01:51:30,780you, Jay moon. Dobby does do20,000 SATs through fountain he173201:51:30,780 --> 01:51:33,600says it won't be able to listento live. We'll be busy. So you173301:51:33,600 --> 01:51:34,950already got that stream?173401:51:35,100 --> 01:51:35,820Adam Curry: Not that one.173501:51:36,540 --> 01:51:37,800Dave Jones: Did you gethomewrecker?173601:51:38,460 --> 01:51:41,670Adam Curry: I think I got tonewrecker. What a tone records173701:51:41,670 --> 01:51:43,800Dave Jones: scraping togethersome support sas after last173801:51:43,800 --> 01:51:45,630night's Minneapolis musicstream. Yes.173901:51:45,630 --> 01:51:49,500Adam Curry: Yeah, we got thatone. Okay. All right. To a174001:51:49,500 --> 01:51:55,590couple new ones that came inCook 2112 Hey 21 told that's a174101:51:55,890 --> 01:51:59,790rush, rush boost. But this isfrom Getty is God.174201:52:00,960 --> 01:52:04,320Dave Jones: Oh, I don't know ifhe's God. But he's, he's really174301:52:04,320 --> 01:52:04,980good at the base.174401:52:05,040 --> 01:52:08,790Adam Curry: And it's from thefrom the podcasts index. The no174501:52:08,790 --> 01:52:13,590Eddie node pub key and customdata in the RSS feed value split174601:52:13,620 --> 01:52:18,960is the cache. If it sucks, if itsucceeds, that's what they call174701:52:18,960 --> 01:52:21,780a cache hit and everything isgolden. If it fails, then you174801:52:21,780 --> 01:52:26,070fetch from the key send value.Does that make any sense to you,174901:52:26,070 --> 01:52:26,430Dave?175001:52:27,180 --> 01:52:29,700Dave Jones: It does. Yeah, yeah,he's saying try a saint. Try175101:52:29,700 --> 01:52:32,610that first, then fall back toresolving the address if it175201:52:32,610 --> 01:52:35,850doesn't work. Got it. It makessense. And175301:52:35,910 --> 01:52:40,800Adam Curry: Jeff, Jeff, Ron, see777 Merry Christmas. Thank you.175401:52:41,130 --> 01:52:44,460And Jeanne Everett, boost boostboost my first time catching it175501:52:44,460 --> 01:52:47,700live. And there you go. Thoseare those alive boosts. Thank175601:52:47,700 --> 01:52:49,080you very much, Angie. Thank you.175701:52:49,650 --> 01:52:53,400Dave Jones: And we got somemonthlies. We get zener Trevor175801:52:53,430 --> 01:52:56,790Zeno are $5 He's from Down UnderThank you, Trevor. Charles175901:52:56,790 --> 01:53:04,110current $5 Michael Gagan $5Christopher Raymer $10 Shawn176001:53:04,110 --> 01:53:09,480McCune $20 Thank you. ShawnCohen glotzbach $5 James176101:53:09,480 --> 01:53:14,760Sullivan $10. And we got a newmonthly subscriber Michael Hall.176201:53:14,760 --> 01:53:20,460$5.50 Thank you, Michael. Thankyou Michael. And we got an in176301:53:20,490 --> 01:53:25,830Kevin Bay also sent us $3.54From the Parkinson's endowment176401:53:25,830 --> 01:53:26,310fund.176501:53:26,880 --> 01:53:27,600Thank you, Kevin.176601:53:27,840 --> 01:53:30,240Adam Curry: Thank you. That'struly isn't Donald let me check176701:53:30,240 --> 01:53:34,500the tally coin real quick. Youknow, we just do it because this176801:53:34,500 --> 01:53:36,900is where I say that you cansupport us value for value176901:53:36,900 --> 01:53:40,410supporting the whole index thewhole project. It all goes into177001:53:40,410 --> 01:53:42,840the project nothing in the tallycoin but if you want to go look177101:53:42,840 --> 01:53:45,840at nothing on the tally coin,you can go to podcast index.org177201:53:45,840 --> 01:53:48,660down at the bottom two reddonate buttons one for your Fiat177301:53:48,660 --> 01:53:51,990fun coupons through Pay Palwhich we appreciate the other177401:53:51,990 --> 01:53:54,810one for your on chain Bitcoin.Everyone told us I'll be sending177501:53:54,810 --> 01:53:59,460you I'll be sending you fullcoin. Okay. And of course what177601:53:59,460 --> 01:54:02,580we really want is for you to geta modern podcast that podcast177701:54:02,580 --> 01:54:09,390apps.com and grab one there,they're mature, they're good177801:54:09,390 --> 01:54:14,910they rock they you can integratenow with all kinds of different177901:54:15,000 --> 01:54:19,500payment systems strikes seems tobe working well for people cash178001:54:19,500 --> 01:54:25,500app still a way to to get moneyin and working. It gets as Karen178101:54:25,500 --> 01:54:28,470said earlier, it's gettingeasier and easier. And we really178201:54:28,470 --> 01:54:31,320appreciate that as a way for youto send us value for the value178301:54:31,320 --> 01:54:34,260that the show and the wholeproject provides. Thank you178401:54:34,260 --> 01:54:39,930again for supporting podcasting.2.0. Kira,178501:54:39,960 --> 01:54:45,960Dave Jones: we have we got a wegot to talk next week. Next next178601:54:45,960 --> 01:54:50,220week. We got to get into more ofa get started talking about 2024178701:54:50,220 --> 01:54:51,240And what we're going to focuson.178801:54:52,500 --> 01:54:56,010Adam Curry: Yes, well, you'regoing to tell us you're the pod178901:54:56,010 --> 01:54:59,520sage. You're going to tell uswhat we're going to focus on179001:54:59,520 --> 01:55:06,120which you will We'll probably bethis serializing, your HTTP s179101:55:06,120 --> 01:55:11,820signature for the fediversewhatever that whatever the thing179201:55:11,820 --> 01:55:14,220is that you need done, that'llbe that that'll be the first179301:55:14,220 --> 01:55:15,180thing that needs to be done.179401:55:15,630 --> 01:55:16,140Dave Jones: Yes,179501:55:16,170 --> 01:55:19,080Adam Curry: we've got to fixthat. chyron Any closing words,179601:55:19,080 --> 01:55:19,590my friend?179701:55:20,250 --> 01:55:22,740Kyrin Down: Oh, I just wanted tothank you guys so much for179801:55:23,070 --> 01:55:27,840everything that you do like it,it needs no repeating. But it's,179901:55:28,140 --> 01:55:31,200you've completely changed mylife in terms of like the180001:55:31,200 --> 01:55:35,460podcasting and the direction Iwanted to focus on and go down.180101:55:35,460 --> 01:55:38,700So yeah, just coming across.What both of you have done is180201:55:38,700 --> 01:55:43,230just was spearheaded along witheveryone else, of course, as has180301:55:43,230 --> 01:55:47,670been truly, truly amazing. So anearly Christmas for me,180401:55:47,700 --> 01:55:50,520definitely appearing on the showas well. I have one question I180501:55:50,520 --> 01:55:56,130did want to ask was the Bitcoinmeet up? Meet Up Bitcoin event180601:55:56,130 --> 01:56:01,620in July? Has there any news onthat as you still got a slot on180701:56:01,620 --> 01:56:03,450the stage? What's What's the guywith that?180801:56:03,480 --> 01:56:08,130Adam Curry: Well, they reachedout to me, and it was a very180901:56:08,130 --> 01:56:11,760weird conversation. They said,you know, we'd love to have you181001:56:11,760 --> 01:56:16,590on stage. Okay, here's the idea.I'm happy to do like a, you181101:56:16,590 --> 01:56:19,500know, a speech, a keynote, youknow, whatever. And then I'd181201:56:19,500 --> 01:56:22,410like to do is, we'd like you todo panels at Great. I'll do a181301:56:22,410 --> 01:56:27,120panel. And I'd like to have amusician or podcasts or app181401:56:27,120 --> 01:56:30,750developer, and they said, great,and we want to have a politician181501:56:30,750 --> 01:56:35,850and a nasty guy. I'm like, whoa,whoa, whoa, whoa, no, no, I says181601:56:35,850 --> 01:56:39,300podcasting. 2.0 Well, but youknow, the draw of someone like181701:56:39,900 --> 01:56:44,220Tucker Carlson like, no, no, Idon't want Tucker Carlson181801:56:44,220 --> 01:56:48,060onstage. I don't know. It'slike, well, you know, we want181901:56:48,120 --> 01:56:52,230the PR values like, Oh, okay.And, um, that was the last I182001:56:52,230 --> 01:56:56,670heard from them. So I am, I haveto say, Dave, you're going182101:56:56,670 --> 01:56:58,590right? Do you have tickets?They've you get tickets?182201:56:58,920 --> 01:57:00,660Dave Jones: No, I don't havetickets. Because I've been182301:57:00,660 --> 01:57:04,650trying to. I've been waiting tosee if we even needed them.182401:57:04,680 --> 01:57:07,800Because I just don't know what,I don't know what's happening.182501:57:07,950 --> 01:57:10,080Man, I plan on going becauseit's so close to my house. I182601:57:10,080 --> 01:57:12,510mean, it's only two hours away,right? It's in Nashville, and182701:57:12,510 --> 01:57:16,860I'm in Birmingham. And so I planon going but I'm like, Well, I182801:57:16,860 --> 01:57:18,450don't know if any ticketsbecause I don't know if we're182901:57:18,450 --> 01:57:21,030actually going to do apresentation or anything.183001:57:22,560 --> 01:57:25,320Adam Curry: I'll reach out to Imean, I think there's enough183101:57:25,320 --> 01:57:28,440people are going to be goingchyron that it's it's always fun183201:57:28,440 --> 01:57:29,550to meet up with people.183301:57:30,240 --> 01:57:32,940Kyrin Down: That was my plan, nomatter what. Yeah. And the183401:57:32,940 --> 01:57:38,370Adam Curry: fact that if you'recoming, and I'm sure Oscar is183501:57:38,370 --> 01:57:41,220going to be there. Dave ifyou're there, I mean, you know,183601:57:41,280 --> 01:57:44,160I'm not quite sure what days itis. Because, you know, like183701:57:44,160 --> 01:57:46,770producing stuff on the road.Because I have to keep kind of183801:57:46,770 --> 01:57:48,060my day job going. But you183901:57:48,060 --> 01:57:51,030Kyrin Down: know, I'd staythrough Saturday is of course,184001:57:51,270 --> 01:57:51,780the horse184101:57:51,780 --> 01:57:58,110Adam Curry: couldn't be anyworse. Yeah. So um, I'm not sure184201:57:58,140 --> 01:58:01,080but I will get an answer fromthose guys. Because I think it'd184301:58:01,080 --> 01:58:04,920be fun to do that. I think wecould, you know, with we could184401:58:04,950 --> 01:58:08,160we could we could do the V for VLIVE I'd like and I was telling184501:58:08,160 --> 01:58:10,590was like, we have all this coolstuff. And we can have booster184601:58:10,590 --> 01:58:14,670grams that show up on thescreens. We can have QR codes184701:58:14,670 --> 01:58:17,040for people to participate in theaudience. It was like yeah, and184801:58:17,040 --> 01:58:18,750Tucker Carlson. Ah184901:58:22,260 --> 01:58:24,840Dave Jones: this is such a weirdthing. Very weird.185001:58:24,870 --> 01:58:26,280Adam Curry: Well, you know,because we need it. We need a185101:58:26,280 --> 01:58:29,460big names. Like, what do youwant? You want to have a185201:58:29,460 --> 01:58:33,330conference that is, informspeople and show something that's185301:58:33,330 --> 01:58:35,730some stuff good stuff that'sgoing on? Or185401:58:36,870 --> 01:58:38,280Dave Jones: did you tell themcurrents coming?185501:58:38,550 --> 01:58:42,870Adam Curry: There you? And Ijust said Hey, baby, we're gonna185601:58:42,870 --> 01:58:48,630have a nice little sesh onstage. Parents come in. That's185701:58:48,630 --> 01:58:53,460right. We got the pod sage onthe stage. Yeah, baby.185801:58:54,330 --> 01:58:59,520Dave Jones: Please don't eversay sesh against like, says no.185901:59:00,330 --> 01:59:00,990This role.186001:59:01,680 --> 01:59:04,110Adam Curry: Thank you very much.boardroom. Thank you, everybody186101:59:04,110 --> 01:59:06,630who showed up at this late hour.Thank you. For those who are186201:59:06,630 --> 01:59:11,970tuning in late from overseas,baby. Yeah, you made it so extra186301:59:11,970 --> 01:59:16,740special tonight. Kyron Are youwill? It's lunchtime for you.186401:59:17,880 --> 01:59:19,620Kyrin Down: It's just past it.But yeah, yeah. Okay.186501:59:19,650 --> 01:59:23,550Adam Curry: Well enjoy yourenjoy your lunch day. My186601:59:23,550 --> 01:59:25,650brother. Do you have yourself agreat weekend?186701:59:26,340 --> 01:59:29,520Dave Jones: You too, man. AndChristmas. Yeah. Oh, that's186801:59:29,520 --> 01:59:31,020Adam Curry: right. MerryChristmas, everybody.186901:59:31,710 --> 01:59:32,790Kyrin Down: Merry Christmas.Right. We187001:59:32,790 --> 01:59:35,130Adam Curry: said MerryChristmas. And that'll do it for187101:59:35,130 --> 01:59:38,370podcasting. 2.0 for our preChristmas Show.187202:00:00,000 --> 02:00:05,280Unknown: You guys are cool. Youhope You have been listening to187302:00:05,310 --> 02:00:11,160podcasting 2.0 Visit podcastindex.org for more information.187402:00:11,580 --> 02:00:14,100Don't forget the beer podcast.