Episode 159: Proto Person

100:00:01,020 --> 00:00:06,240Adam Curry: Casting 2.0 forDecember 15 2023, episode 159200:00:09,480 --> 00:00:14,430Well, hohoho Hello, everybody.Welcome to podcasting. 2.0 We300:00:14,430 --> 00:00:17,760are the only boardroom in thebusiness that has a naughty and400:00:17,760 --> 00:00:21,240nice list. That's right. Here'swhat we discussed the actual500:00:21,240 --> 00:00:25,050future of podcasting did nowwhat's happening here, we're all600:00:25,050 --> 00:00:29,040about it. Podcasting 2.0 podcastindex.org And of course,700:00:29,190 --> 00:00:32,790everything we discussed in theopen on podcast index dot800:00:32,790 --> 00:00:35,310social. I'm Adam curry here inthe heart of the Texas Hill900:00:35,310 --> 00:00:38,760Country. And in Alabama, the manwho loves streaming video to an1000:00:38,760 --> 00:00:41,430audience of millions say helloto my friend on the other end1100:00:41,430 --> 00:00:45,450live demo, Mr. Jones.1200:00:46,710 --> 00:00:50,340Dave Jones: Okay, right off thebat. I have have a have a bone1300:00:50,340 --> 00:00:51,750to pick with you wants,1400:00:51,780 --> 00:00:53,520Adam Curry: what do I do? Whatdo I want?1500:00:53,550 --> 00:01:00,270Dave Jones: What do I do now tostreaming video? Yes. You hit me1600:01:00,270 --> 00:01:02,370with a disproportionate use ofgifts.1700:01:03,659 --> 00:01:05,879Adam Curry: Because I was hopingit would arrive before the1800:01:05,879 --> 00:01:06,389boardroom.1900:01:08,280 --> 00:01:11,130Dave Jones: I gave you some DVD.Well, no, no,2000:01:11,130 --> 00:01:15,720Adam Curry: hold on a second. Ihad forgotten that we that you'd2100:01:15,720 --> 00:01:18,720like the only guy in my lifethat I exchanged gifts with2200:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,380then. And I think what I gaveyou last year last year, I gave2300:01:22,380 --> 00:01:26,310you a Oculus card? Yeah, thecold cart. Yeah, the cold cart.2400:01:26,820 --> 00:01:29,940And and so Dave's like oh yeah,I sent you a Christmas present.2500:01:29,940 --> 00:01:33,570And it's like first of December.I'm like, What I haven't even2600:01:33,570 --> 00:01:36,090gotten to my list or anythingyet. And I don't have all the2700:01:36,090 --> 00:01:40,080gifts my wife I'm like this. I'mon it your way your way on it.2800:01:40,080 --> 00:01:44,460And so and it's not like youdidn't just give me DVDs. These2900:01:44,460 --> 00:01:49,860were very meaningful DVDs. And avery nice card or slash Amazon3000:01:49,860 --> 00:01:54,720note. To go with it. And and Iwas really touched by it. And so3100:01:54,720 --> 00:01:58,860I'm like, Oh man, what am Igonna give Dave? How did I do?3200:01:58,890 --> 00:01:59,670How did I do?3300:02:01,770 --> 00:02:05,160Dave Jones: You blue. This isdisproportionate completely3400:02:05,160 --> 00:02:06,030disproportionate? It's3500:02:06,030 --> 00:02:08,670Adam Curry: not it's not becauseI want I want to give you3600:02:08,670 --> 00:02:12,150something that you absolutelydid not need. But yet, if you3700:02:12,150 --> 00:02:12,870need it.3800:02:14,520 --> 00:02:18,120Dave Jones: You get you got methe Elgato stream deck.3900:02:19,139 --> 00:02:21,599Adam Curry: Mark Two I hope Ihope it's the I4000:02:21,599 --> 00:02:23,519Dave Jones: don't know I don'tsee a mark on it. But I'm4100:02:23,519 --> 00:02:26,999looking I'm gonna say as Mark toI don't even know what to do4200:02:26,999 --> 00:02:30,059with it. But even all the coolnote was like this is what all4300:02:30,059 --> 00:02:31,019the cool kids use.4400:02:32,250 --> 00:02:35,640Adam Curry: All the cool kids Iknow use those legato stream4500:02:35,640 --> 00:02:39,840tech for the streaming becauseyou can use start your stream it4600:02:39,840 --> 00:02:43,680can rearrange your cameras, youknow, you can flip your camera4700:02:43,680 --> 00:02:45,360on and all that stuff.4800:02:45,930 --> 00:02:49,710Dave Jones: Yeah, like it'sgood. Thank you, brother. Oh,4900:02:49,709 --> 00:02:52,049Adam Curry: of course of Thankyou. Merry Christmas gift. Merry5000:02:52,049 --> 00:02:54,269Christmas. And I expect you toset it up,5100:02:55,050 --> 00:02:57,840Dave Jones: though. I will Iwill. I've will absolutely do5200:02:57,840 --> 00:03:00,900that it get a I got it lastnight. So here's what happened.5300:03:00,900 --> 00:03:05,130I got it. I went out on thefront porch. And it was like a5400:03:05,130 --> 00:03:09,180box. I started opening it up andI'm like, wait a second. If this5500:03:09,180 --> 00:03:14,100is something that my wife got,for me, I can't do this. And so5600:03:14,100 --> 00:03:19,530I like you know, I'm like put itdown. Cut the cut the lid. And5700:03:19,530 --> 00:03:22,950then I'm like peeking in thereto see what color the box isn't5800:03:22,950 --> 00:03:27,420trying to be like. And I'm like,Wait, this is a weird bottle.5900:03:27,450 --> 00:03:29,730This is surely enough. I askedher I'm like did you get6000:03:29,730 --> 00:03:36,810something for me? She's like, NoI'm like, What is this and if6100:03:36,840 --> 00:03:40,230you had a nice notice such asjust such a nice such a nice6200:03:40,230 --> 00:03:41,040gift. Thank you brother.6300:03:41,279 --> 00:03:44,909Adam Curry: Know you're morethan welcome. And I'm curious. I6400:03:44,909 --> 00:03:48,419think it should work with allkinds of different OSs but I'm6500:03:48,419 --> 00:03:53,219sure Windows is whatever you'rerunning your your OBS on Linux6600:03:53,219 --> 00:03:56,489baby Ubuntu though really? Idon't know if if it has a boon6700:03:56,489 --> 00:03:58,499to stuff I don't know. Well,this6800:03:58,530 --> 00:04:00,300Dave Jones: legitimately we weretalking about this before the6900:04:00,300 --> 00:04:03,060show I've got building Windowsbox. Yeah.7000:04:03,150 --> 00:04:04,530Adam Curry: Now just for thestream deck.7100:04:06,389 --> 00:04:08,399Dave Jones: And for and for theroad because you know, it's7200:04:08,429 --> 00:04:12,899crappy with Ubuntu. So yeah,this time next week, I will have7300:04:13,289 --> 00:04:15,599our have a fat rig. Fat7400:04:15,599 --> 00:04:18,359Adam Curry: rig. It's Yes.Supposedly, you can use it's7500:04:18,359 --> 00:04:21,239like, you can use it for allkinds of stuff from macro. We7600:04:21,239 --> 00:04:23,789build macros. It has like awhole app store.7700:04:25,800 --> 00:04:27,840Dave Jones: feature and it's gotso many days got a lot of7800:04:27,840 --> 00:04:32,010buttons. Lots of buzzer grimbutton on there. I don't know7900:04:32,010 --> 00:04:32,490what you would do.8000:04:34,530 --> 00:04:36,600Adam Curry: I think you canchange those buttons. That's the8100:04:36,600 --> 00:04:42,720whole point is you can go to thethe stream deck App Store. That8200:04:42,720 --> 00:04:44,520fat rig Yeah, exactly what Oh,8300:04:44,760 --> 00:04:45,600Dave Jones: they got an app. Sothey8400:04:45,600 --> 00:04:47,460Adam Curry: have an app store.Oh, yeah. Oh, yeah. I8500:04:47,460 --> 00:04:50,190Dave Jones: should put a podcastindex app on the stream deck App8600:04:50,190 --> 00:04:50,790Store. Yeah.8700:04:50,970 --> 00:04:53,910Adam Curry: Why not? Might aswell as you can. I don't know8800:04:53,910 --> 00:04:57,030what it would do. But it wouldlook cool. It's good to be in an8900:04:57,030 --> 00:04:58,830app store. The only App Storewill be in9000:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,750Dave Jones: I know what it woulddo it would it would overlay to9100:05:03,750 --> 00:05:06,750hell a pad various brands on thescreen.9200:05:06,780 --> 00:05:10,350Adam Curry: Yeah, there you go.Now you're talking. See this is9300:05:10,350 --> 00:05:14,310a business expense now. No, no,that's not a business expense9400:05:14,340 --> 00:05:19,980that talked about it. That is aYeah, okay. No, I think we9500:05:19,980 --> 00:05:22,500already just established it wasa Christmas gift.9600:05:22,950 --> 00:05:23,580Dave Jones: Thank you brother.9700:05:23,610 --> 00:05:26,100Adam Curry: Yeah, no of courseman. Thank you. I love my DVDs.9800:05:26,100 --> 00:05:31,680i i And thank you for the forpre ripping the MP force to me I9900:05:32,430 --> 00:05:37,680on my I set up on my What is itcalled? On my start nine. They10000:05:37,680 --> 00:05:42,930have like an open source. Videomanagement it's like Plex only10100:05:42,930 --> 00:05:46,230it's open source. I think it'scalled jiggy with it or10200:05:46,230 --> 00:05:54,270something jellyfish. Jellyfish.So I've jellyfish. Yeah, so I10300:05:54,270 --> 00:05:59,040put I put it on there and andstarted streaming it I the way10400:05:59,040 --> 00:06:01,350the start the start nine stilldoesn't have what they call10500:06:01,350 --> 00:06:05,640clean net. It's all tore still.So I can it won't connect to the10600:06:05,640 --> 00:06:08,880Roku yet, but that's coming soonwith their version four. I love10700:06:08,880 --> 00:06:12,180that, that start nine best thingever. I gotta say this other10800:06:12,180 --> 00:06:17,400story. Okay, so I'm on the X,you know, formerly known as10900:06:17,400 --> 00:06:22,830Twitter, you have to say that.And, and I see this, this box11000:06:22,830 --> 00:06:26,610called it's called Future bit.Have you heard of this thing?11100:06:28,650 --> 00:06:31,020Dave Jones: I'm gonna say no.Okay, so11200:06:31,020 --> 00:06:37,200Adam Curry: it's like a desktopcube. And, and supposedly it11300:06:37,200 --> 00:06:43,350says 10 Tera. Hash. To silent.This is the big thing silent,11400:06:43,620 --> 00:06:50,640full Bitcoin node and miner madein the USA. So11500:06:51,480 --> 00:06:54,780Dave Jones: let me start withwhat? I'm not familiar with11600:06:54,780 --> 00:06:57,330current, like hash rates andthat kind of thing. What where11700:06:57,330 --> 00:06:59,490does that rank? And how big isthat?11800:06:59,700 --> 00:07:02,880Adam Curry: To give me an idea Ihave. I have two s nines that11900:07:02,880 --> 00:07:06,870have been running for a year nowin the house. And I think12000:07:06,870 --> 00:07:14,400together they do about 17 Terahash. But that's that. And so12100:07:14,400 --> 00:07:20,820that's 600 watts. And this thingis supposed to do 10 At 30012200:07:20,820 --> 00:07:24,240watts. And so now you'reliterally into the calculation12300:07:24,240 --> 00:07:28,800of money. So these, so these twominers, with today's prices,12400:07:28,800 --> 00:07:32,400they're doing anywhere betweenthree and $5 a day for me. And12500:07:32,400 --> 00:07:35,790I'm on a pool, right? I'm on thebrains pool or whatever. And so12600:07:35,790 --> 00:07:38,040this thing, you can make yourown pool, you could run it12700:07:38,040 --> 00:07:41,310standalone and just hope for alucky shot foot should be funny.12800:07:42,690 --> 00:07:44,040Dave Jones: does it connect toocean?12900:07:44,760 --> 00:07:47,010Adam Curry: I know I reallydon't know. But here's what13000:07:47,010 --> 00:07:51,330happens. So I just liked that.It's like the Apollo two. It's13100:07:51,330 --> 00:07:55,590their new rig. So I just hit thelike button. I get a DM Hi, I'm13200:07:55,590 --> 00:07:59,130the CEO. I want to send you one.I'm like sweet13300:08:01,530 --> 00:08:06,150Dave Jones: Yeah. The answer isyes. Yes.13400:08:06,180 --> 00:08:08,640Adam Curry: I will review it foryou. Don't worry. I haven't. It13500:08:08,640 --> 00:08:12,330hasn't hasn't showed up yet. Butso yeah, I was feeling pretty13600:08:12,330 --> 00:08:13,200good about that.13700:08:13,230 --> 00:08:15,870Dave Jones: 10 Tera hash at 300watts. I mean, you're talking13800:08:15,870 --> 00:08:21,240about half the power with youknow, with 75% of the ASHRAE13900:08:21,240 --> 00:08:24,360that's pretty good. Yeah. Yeah.14000:08:25,110 --> 00:08:27,060Adam Curry: That's made inAmerica. They have their own14100:08:27,090 --> 00:08:31,080ASIC. I don't know just thewhole like the whole idea. Is14200:08:31,110 --> 00:08:31,710like a14300:08:33,210 --> 00:08:35,460Dave Jones: Is it like a thingthat has like a management14400:08:35,460 --> 00:08:38,520interface where you can likejust plug it in and then get14500:08:38,520 --> 00:08:38,970into14600:08:40,170 --> 00:08:46,230Adam Curry: you can have that Ilose you there. Boy, you went?14700:08:46,500 --> 00:08:59,100You went Zippy zappy Hello.Hello, Dave. J is not here Do14800:08:59,100 --> 00:09:03,240you guys still hear me right?Still on the stream14900:09:08,580 --> 00:09:12,030Okay, so it must have been Davelet me disconnect. See if you15000:09:12,030 --> 00:09:19,110reconnect I can reconnect himrestore There you go. You there15100:09:19,260 --> 00:09:22,350Oh, yeah, I'm here wow, you weregone. You all you want Merton15200:09:22,920 --> 00:09:28,620and then you've got Yeah, you'vejust gone okay. You were asking15300:09:28,620 --> 00:09:31,170about if he's had a managementinterface and I was going to say15400:09:31,440 --> 00:09:37,680it's obviously it's a full onLinux desktop computer with USB15500:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,850ports everything is supposedlyquiet which I mean if you those15600:09:41,850 --> 00:09:44,400s nines are in the garage Ican't have them in the house.15700:09:45,180 --> 00:09:46,290Dave Jones: Oh yeah, thosethings are loud.15800:09:47,610 --> 00:09:50,520Adam Curry: So empty Yeah, justso it does have a managed but15900:09:50,520 --> 00:09:53,160you can it's plug and play youplug it in turn on it'll start16000:09:53,160 --> 00:09:56,040mining but there's an interfaceyou can you can connect to so it16100:09:56,040 --> 00:09:59,520does have a I guess has a webserver in there. But it's it's a16200:09:59,520 --> 00:10:00,840full on desktop machine.16300:10:01,590 --> 00:10:05,880Dave Jones: The last the lastminers I had were had to think16400:10:05,880 --> 00:10:10,530they may have been like s sevensor something. That was right. I16500:10:10,530 --> 00:10:13,410don't even know if that's right.Because it was, it was shortly16600:10:13,410 --> 00:10:17,880maybe a year or two after thetransition really happened. GPUs16700:10:17,880 --> 00:10:23,850to ASICs. Right. So I use thefunds that are mined from, from16800:10:23,850 --> 00:10:28,950GPUs to buy. Yeah, it waspretty, it was pretty profitable16900:10:29,130 --> 00:10:32,430at first and then and then itjust went down. You know, like17000:10:32,430 --> 00:10:35,880it was slowly got outmoded. Iended up just, I ended up17100:10:35,880 --> 00:10:37,980trashing them because they wereso far out of date.17200:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,550Adam Curry: I mean, the S ninesare out of date, too. I mean,17300:10:41,550 --> 00:10:44,460what is it s 19 is what peopleare using these were given to me17400:10:44,460 --> 00:10:47,970as well. Now they'rerefurbished, and I just put them17500:10:47,970 --> 00:10:50,820in the in the garage, keeps thegarage nice and nice and toasty17600:10:50,820 --> 00:10:52,440during the winter. I17700:10:52,440 --> 00:10:56,250Dave Jones: had heard the daythat AntMiner was like, going17800:10:56,250 --> 00:11:00,000Adam Curry: out of business. Andyeah, I don't know. Is that17900:11:00,000 --> 00:11:02,760still the case? I have no idea.I mean,18000:11:03,210 --> 00:11:05,430Dave Jones: we're like the onlygame in town for a while it's up18100:11:05,430 --> 00:11:06,000and down.18200:11:06,000 --> 00:11:07,530Adam Curry: You know, it'd beyou know, it all depends on the18300:11:07,530 --> 00:11:11,190price and the hat and thedifficulty and then they18400:11:11,460 --> 00:11:14,460overestimate or under estimate.I don't know. I really don't18500:11:14,460 --> 00:11:17,850know. Yeah, I really don'tunderstand it. But I just think18600:11:17,850 --> 00:11:21,000it's cool that every day I'mlike, oh, there's there's $3 Oh,18700:11:21,000 --> 00:11:24,870that's cool. I just I printedmoney in my garage. And Texas18800:11:24,870 --> 00:11:30,000prices. It's profitable. bylittle by little bit.18900:11:30,600 --> 00:11:34,770Dave Jones: Yeah, because y'allgot y'all have y'all have we got19000:11:35,490 --> 00:11:38,040a late Yeah, decent power whenit's not an ice storm.19100:11:39,300 --> 00:11:41,760Adam Curry: That has nothing todo with our grid. That's Austin.19200:11:43,380 --> 00:11:47,460Dave Jones: Prices, decentprices. Nice storm you're gonna19300:11:47,460 --> 00:11:48,510pay $20,00019400:11:48,990 --> 00:11:52,770Adam Curry: for a minute. Foryour minor. For minor. Yes.19500:11:53,070 --> 00:11:55,770Well, speaking of such I'm goingto declare it right now while19600:11:55,770 --> 00:11:59,220you're ready, is I'm going tosay and I have some standing in19700:11:59,220 --> 00:12:01,830the podcast area. I amofficially declaring this19800:12:02,430 --> 00:12:04,050podcast winter.19900:12:06,390 --> 00:12:08,550Dave Jones: Oh, sweet, okay.It's an efficiently20000:12:08,550 --> 00:12:10,620Adam Curry: podcast winter. I'vebeen through one of these20100:12:10,620 --> 00:12:15,690before. The podcast windows avery bad podcast winter of 2008.20200:12:16,530 --> 00:12:20,640When we were riding high,everyone was loving it. VC money20300:12:20,640 --> 00:12:25,110was flowing. Everybody was happyand jacked. We had advertisers20400:12:25,110 --> 00:12:28,920it was woohoo. So great. Andthen oh, no, we got Twitter,20500:12:28,920 --> 00:12:32,640Facebook, YouTube. Hello,everybody better do video. If20600:12:32,640 --> 00:12:35,400you're not doing video, you'regonna suck. You're going to be20700:12:35,400 --> 00:12:39,810left behind. That was the firstpodcast winter. Does20800:12:39,810 --> 00:12:42,570Dave Jones: this. Is thissimilar to a dark winter?20900:12:43,620 --> 00:12:46,950Adam Curry: No, because that'swhere everybody dies. Their head21000:12:46,950 --> 00:12:50,520hurts. It is similar to an AIwinter which I'm predicting for21100:12:50,520 --> 00:12:54,600next year. But this is thepodcast winter we are right in21200:12:54,600 --> 00:12:59,100the middle of it. I've beenlistening to so much obfuscated21300:12:59,100 --> 00:13:05,280lies before futzing around withlanguage about what's really21400:13:05,280 --> 00:13:09,390going on. I didn't clipanything. But I mean, I was21500:13:09,420 --> 00:13:14,670surprised I was really surprisedto hear on a show prep podcast21600:13:14,670 --> 00:13:19,320weekly review. James was kind ofattributing twits going, you21700:13:19,320 --> 00:13:23,760know, you know, firings andcanceling shows to Leo being21800:13:23,760 --> 00:13:26,940old. And and the same voice isbeing on the show. I'm like,21900:13:26,940 --> 00:13:29,850what is that? That's bullcrap,though,22000:13:30,930 --> 00:13:33,810Dave Jones: said that SteveGibson, then the example he22100:13:33,810 --> 00:13:35,250used. That's the one22200:13:35,250 --> 00:13:39,900Adam Curry: I'm most comfortableshows. Exactly. Exactly. Now,22300:13:39,930 --> 00:13:42,540it's not because they didn'tinnovate. It's not because Leo22400:13:42,540 --> 00:13:46,470doesn't understand the podcastbusiness. Well, yeah, that is so22500:13:46,680 --> 00:13:48,930because I don't think he's hadanything to do with the business22600:13:48,930 --> 00:13:53,070side. I'm sure his his wife hasbeen doing that. But he's been22700:13:53,070 --> 00:13:57,720doing video from day one. It'snot about that people want video22800:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,470he did all their stuff is sharedon YouTube. So it's not that No,22900:14:01,770 --> 00:14:04,590I listened to the mediaroundtable. And it was pretty23000:14:04,590 --> 00:14:09,210clear. They're just like,podcasting is out of favor. It's23100:14:09,210 --> 00:14:12,900just out of favor media buyers,or as they call chief audio23200:14:12,900 --> 00:14:18,030officers. Media Buyers are justnot buying it because it's got a23300:14:18,030 --> 00:14:22,560bad taste to it. And the thingthat shocked me was fraud.23400:14:23,670 --> 00:14:27,810There's there's a there's a verythere's a lot of cognition now23500:14:27,810 --> 00:14:32,010about fraud is a big word. Theycall it fraud on that show, but23600:14:32,370 --> 00:14:35,790okay, we got the downloads butthe download really go to where23700:14:35,790 --> 00:14:39,720we think it went up. There's alot of well, how about capping23800:14:39,750 --> 00:14:43,080of frequency capping and we getinto the same people getting the23900:14:43,080 --> 00:14:47,760same result, do this just theyjust don't know. And then again,24000:14:47,760 --> 00:14:51,540and they're getting better datafrom all these other places, and24100:14:51,540 --> 00:14:54,360it's no longer hip and hot andhappening. There's nothing but24200:14:54,360 --> 00:14:58,740bad news, which I think alsoattributes for the numbers being24300:14:58,740 --> 00:15:01,890down. Yes, a part of that.There's going to be the apple24400:15:01,890 --> 00:15:04,950podcast. And I think no agendais if you look at the OP three24500:15:04,950 --> 00:15:08,760stats for no agenda, I thinkit's very apparent there, then24600:15:08,790 --> 00:15:12,510no agenda is typically a podcastthat people will be able to24700:15:12,510 --> 00:15:17,220download. And, and they'lldownload previous episodes. And24800:15:17,460 --> 00:15:20,010they may or may not get to themall the time. I think we're a24900:15:20,010 --> 00:15:22,950show that people do skipsometimes. A lot of people25000:15:22,950 --> 00:15:27,180don't, but we're just a longshow. So we went from, let's25100:15:27,180 --> 00:15:31,950say, 900,000, op, three, uniqueaudience to a little under25200:15:31,950 --> 00:15:36,300700,000 per month. Sounds aboutright to me from from those25300:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,620numbers. And I would say thatwas probably the over count. But25400:15:40,620 --> 00:15:45,780the the overall decline in, inpodcasting, then people are25500:15:45,780 --> 00:15:50,070giving up. They think that goingaway, some people just like, you25600:15:50,070 --> 00:15:52,560know, I think there's pod fadinghappening everywhere. I think25700:15:52,560 --> 00:15:55,740people are not doing as manyepisodes. They're not as excited25800:15:55,740 --> 00:15:59,280by it. There's no longer that,hey, I can be Joe Rogan. Spotify25900:15:59,280 --> 00:16:02,730is not going to give me $100million anymore. So it's podcast26000:16:02,730 --> 00:16:05,190winter. And this is where wehunker down. This is where we26100:16:05,190 --> 00:16:08,940continue to build. And until thenext moment, the next serial26200:16:08,940 --> 00:16:11,730moment comes along, whichhopefully won't be eight years.26300:16:14,820 --> 00:16:17,670Dave Jones: I did not listen tothe most recent media26400:16:17,670 --> 00:16:22,050roundtable. I haven't heard ofyet. But so I didn't hear the26500:16:22,080 --> 00:16:25,680thing you're talking about. ButI but I did. I had this26600:16:25,680 --> 00:16:30,750interesting experience. So I'mnow I'm now this guy. Like,26700:16:31,260 --> 00:16:33,990Adam Curry: you've been this guyfor a long time. Okay.26800:16:36,270 --> 00:16:40,680Dave Jones: So here's the math.My daughter, My daughter, she's26900:16:40,710 --> 00:16:46,200my youngest daughter. She's 13.And so, me and her and my wife27000:16:46,290 --> 00:16:51,600have gotten into this patterneach night we we have dinner and27100:16:51,600 --> 00:16:55,950we sit down we watch GilmoreGirls. Oh, beautiful. Yeah, I've27200:16:55,950 --> 00:16:59,910never seen the whole thing. I'veonly seen pieces. Yeah, so we've27300:16:59,910 --> 00:17:01,770become you know, get more girlsare27400:17:01,770 --> 00:17:03,930Adam Curry: hollow baby. Yeah,stars. Hello. Yeah.27500:17:04,710 --> 00:17:07,320Dave Jones: It's um, you know, Ilook around and you know, the27600:17:07,320 --> 00:17:12,270guy that plays Luke. ScottPatterson's the actor's name. So27700:17:12,270 --> 00:17:16,140I'm like, Well, wonder what elsehe's he's been in, you know, I'm27800:17:16,140 --> 00:17:18,390interested in looking aroundbecause I really haven't seen27900:17:18,390 --> 00:17:20,760many of these people on othershows. So I'm like, well,28000:17:20,760 --> 00:17:25,710where's he been on IMDb and thisguy. And it's through searching28100:17:25,710 --> 00:17:31,140essay. I found on Google said,he's got a podcast about Gilmore28200:17:31,140 --> 00:17:35,010Girls where he is watchingthrough the show himself28300:17:35,190 --> 00:17:39,060himself, because he really isvery good. Yeah, it's weird,28400:17:39,060 --> 00:17:42,900because he never really saw it,I guess in a holistic way. He28500:17:42,900 --> 00:17:47,340just saw the part he did. AndI'm like, Well, this sounds kind28600:17:47,340 --> 00:17:49,470of interesting. I wonder if it'sin the index. So I'll go it's in28700:17:49,470 --> 00:17:53,910the index. I've got a couple ofthings about this. Not just on28800:17:53,910 --> 00:17:56,100two different topics. I'm goingto actually bring this up again28900:17:56,100 --> 00:18:01,440later. But he sort of So I findthis I've subscribed to it and29000:18:01,440 --> 00:18:07,560cast thematic and so on now, youknow, number one, I'm now that29100:18:07,560 --> 00:18:12,450guy that that goes and listensto like fan podcasts of things.29200:18:12,450 --> 00:18:14,490You know, like I'm we're gonnalisten through so and so29300:18:14,490 --> 00:18:19,500together. But the other thing isthe it's an I Heart Radio,29400:18:19,920 --> 00:18:30,330podcast. And it is the same. Thesame ads. It's like three, it's29500:18:30,330 --> 00:18:34,380an Ikea ad and two other adsthat I don't remember. It is the29600:18:34,380 --> 00:18:40,200same ad five different times inthe podcast is a pre roll. And29700:18:40,200 --> 00:18:45,990then there's three mid rolls,and the post roll the identical29800:18:45,990 --> 00:18:51,420ads every single time withoutfail. Yeah. And it's like, the29900:18:51,420 --> 00:18:55,890podcast is like, let's just sayit's 45 minutes long. And30000:18:55,890 --> 00:19:02,850there's 10 minutes 10 to 12minutes of ads. And they're all30100:19:02,880 --> 00:19:05,790the exact same ad. It's30200:19:05,790 --> 00:19:07,860Adam Curry: been there. I guessthey're inserted at30300:19:07,860 --> 00:19:09,060inappropriate times.30400:19:09,360 --> 00:19:13,020Dave Jones: Yes, of course. Ofcourse. It is brutal in it. So30500:19:13,020 --> 00:19:16,620this is the first you know, I'm,I'm used to it. We were we're30600:19:16,620 --> 00:19:22,740podcast nerds. So we're used tolistening to podcasts, mostly by30700:19:22,740 --> 00:19:27,270people that are really good atproducing podcasts they take30800:19:27,360 --> 00:19:29,580when I when I say good at it. Imean, like they take a lot of30900:19:29,580 --> 00:19:35,550care in how the product is, isBill. Sure. This is really31000:19:35,550 --> 00:19:40,140honestly my first experiencewith a podcast that somebody31100:19:40,140 --> 00:19:44,340just a Rando would listen to,like, Oh, I like Gilmore Girls31200:19:44,340 --> 00:19:49,530on subscribe to this podcast.And that stuff. If this is31300:19:49,530 --> 00:19:53,310indicative of the quality thatthat stuff it represents. It's31400:19:53,310 --> 00:19:57,720terrible. Like the show itselfis okay. I mean, like it's the31500:19:57,720 --> 00:20:01,140content, but the production thatare you I mean, they're all on31600:20:01,140 --> 00:20:06,990like, you know, air pods mics,and they're in certain horrible31700:20:06,990 --> 00:20:10,080dynamic ads in that are the sameall over the place. It's it's31800:20:10,080 --> 00:20:15,510truly garbage. And I could seehow download numbers. I could31900:20:15,510 --> 00:20:18,180see how people would getfatigued of stuff like that if,32000:20:18,480 --> 00:20:22,260if that's representative of likethe larger world of podcasting32100:20:22,260 --> 00:20:25,020that's out there that makes upall the stuff that I don't32200:20:25,020 --> 00:20:26,010normally listen to.32300:20:27,120 --> 00:20:28,860Adam Curry: Yeah, there was alot of that. I mean, the the32400:20:28,860 --> 00:20:32,910podcast industrial complex grewup around the success of cereal32500:20:32,940 --> 00:20:37,500and the investment from Spotify.And that's the story. Everyone32600:20:37,500 --> 00:20:41,550knows that. And what we've beentalking about for over a year,32700:20:41,550 --> 00:20:45,480maybe a year and a half is nowkind of regular parlance except32800:20:45,480 --> 00:20:48,330they say Well, that was dumbmoney. Okay, say whatever you32900:20:48,330 --> 00:20:51,180want. There was there's beendumb money there was dumb money33000:20:51,180 --> 00:20:55,140for a decade. That's mosttechnology companies are built33100:20:55,140 --> 00:20:57,480on the so called it was cheapmoney. That's what it was which33200:20:57,480 --> 00:20:58,140cheap money.33300:20:58,530 --> 00:20:59,100Dave Jones: cheap money.33400:21:00,450 --> 00:21:03,720Adam Curry: And that's the I'msorry, go ahead. No, no good.33500:21:03,750 --> 00:21:06,600Well, the podcast industrialcomplex came in treated like33600:21:06,600 --> 00:21:13,860radio a weird hybrid actually ofradio and other internet based33700:21:13,860 --> 00:21:19,230advertising. I think the as Dr.As we call them the biz direct33800:21:19,230 --> 00:21:22,740response. I think that's stillextremely appropriate. You're33900:21:22,740 --> 00:21:26,520not going to get your BMW fordirect response. Go buy a BMW34000:21:26,550 --> 00:21:30,900with my code. No, that's notgoing to happen. But brand34100:21:30,900 --> 00:21:34,350advertising came in and youknow, and and a lot of people34200:21:34,350 --> 00:21:36,840will disagree with me on thisbut it's just not appropriate34300:21:36,840 --> 00:21:41,310medium. Its advertising is veryinappropriate, perpendicular.34400:21:41,550 --> 00:21:44,790The opposite of what podcastinghas always been about. I'm not34500:21:44,790 --> 00:21:48,360against advertising. I'm reallynot. But that experience that34600:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,720you just discussed shows a tipit's like, it's like disco.34700:21:52,080 --> 00:21:56,850Disco was very formulaic. Youknow, you put your Boom, clap,34800:21:56,880 --> 00:22:00,480Boom, clap to to do to do andthen you know, begin yours, your34900:22:00,810 --> 00:22:04,410your lycra and your dance aroundthem. To a degree like crew35000:22:04,440 --> 00:22:07,680techno was kind of techno waskind of a revival of that.35100:22:09,390 --> 00:22:12,870Although, I don't want to getpeople to techno people all mad35200:22:12,870 --> 00:22:19,500at me. But it's formulaic. Itbecame formulaic and and there's35300:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,470this idea of, well, I havenumbers, so I should make be35400:22:22,470 --> 00:22:26,340making money. And we did thatwith blogging. Okay. No, no,35500:22:26,340 --> 00:22:28,980that's just not how it works. So35600:22:29,130 --> 00:22:31,860Dave Jones: look at our look atour numbers we went from we went35700:22:31,860 --> 00:22:34,650down, right? We went Oh, yeah, Imean, a lot. A lot. I mean, we35800:22:34,650 --> 00:22:39,300went down from 13,000. Yeah,just like, say like, 5000s.35900:22:39,300 --> 00:22:43,440Yeah. A little under a littleunder six. If you're so that,36000:22:43,650 --> 00:22:47,640those exact numbers on a note.It's always been you the numbers36100:22:47,640 --> 00:22:50,910you've always heard were, onceyou get 10,000. Listeners, then36200:22:50,910 --> 00:22:55,680you monetize with ads. Yeah, butadvertising. Well, if we if we36300:22:55,680 --> 00:22:59,130were just if we were a podcastthat monetized we're not we36400:22:59,130 --> 00:23:02,460know, we just immediately in twomonths now we're out of the36500:23:02,460 --> 00:23:05,490game. Yeah, we were monetizing.Now. We're not. But36600:23:05,490 --> 00:23:07,800Adam Curry: it's also a who wantI just don't want it. It's36700:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,220that's not what's so beautifulabout podcasting. And, you know,36800:23:11,220 --> 00:23:15,960the, the value for valueconcepts where people support36900:23:15,960 --> 00:23:20,490you, and it works. It's beenworking. Been working for me.37000:23:20,520 --> 00:23:23,790I'm hearing more and more of it.It's starting to Oh, my God, the37100:23:24,150 --> 00:23:27,390beautiful interview with AinsleyCostello and just loud who are37200:23:27,390 --> 00:23:31,200doing the big. The big concertconcerts, I should say, December37300:23:31,200 --> 00:23:39,60028, December 21. Two coming to a2.0 app near you. This guy, just37400:23:39,600 --> 00:23:46,320loud. He's this is like somehe's like a music. What's the37500:23:46,320 --> 00:23:52,680word genius? He he's done. NotNo, no, he's a 9000 songs. All37600:23:52,680 --> 00:23:56,280he does is write and recordmusic, and was bought music37700:23:56,280 --> 00:24:00,150savant. Yes. And he had, he hasa whole backstory, he had 1037800:24:00,150 --> 00:24:04,170million streams on Spotifydidn't receive a dime. He says,37900:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,770he says, I have received moremoney from value for value38000:24:07,950 --> 00:24:11,220played on podcast than anythingI've ever done on Spotify. And38100:24:11,220 --> 00:24:16,050here's what we're so beautiful.He says whenever I guess he has,38200:24:16,080 --> 00:24:18,240you know, his management team orwhatever. They'll send him a38300:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,930screenshot when stuff is comingin. And he'll go look, and he38400:24:21,930 --> 00:24:25,200says, I see that I see thatSatoshis coming in. He says I38500:24:25,200 --> 00:24:29,220immediately get inspired and gowrite another song. Oh, that's38600:24:29,220 --> 00:24:32,040cool. And that's the whole pointis like, you're getting38700:24:32,040 --> 00:24:35,670inspiration. You're getting thefeedback loop that shows you38800:24:35,670 --> 00:24:38,970that people are out there andare listening and care enough to38900:24:38,970 --> 00:24:43,230send you money no matter whatthe amount is. It's irrelevant.39000:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,970Dave Jones: They do. Okay, solast week, we had this the39100:24:47,970 --> 00:24:54,930Spotify take apart. Yeah. And Ihad mentioned that something39200:24:55,170 --> 00:24:59,580that I was thinking about wherewe'll maybe the pod maybe the39300:24:59,580 --> 00:25:05,280Spotify Exclusive. And thatpodcasting in general, within39400:25:05,280 --> 00:25:11,640Spotify was just a way to gettheir ma us up into the range39500:25:11,640 --> 00:25:14,970that would meet the numbersrequired for them to get the get39600:25:14,970 --> 00:25:16,710the lowest rates on musicroyalty. That's39700:25:16,710 --> 00:25:19,260Adam Curry: definitely part ofit. It's a very good, that was a39800:25:19,260 --> 00:25:21,960good deconstruction you hadthere. So39900:25:21,960 --> 00:25:24,240Dave Jones: I think we haveconfirmation of that, by40000:25:24,240 --> 00:25:30,870accident, in a clip from Francoasked me to send him this clip.40100:25:31,530 --> 00:25:35,430And I was like, Well, I don'thave I didn't at the time have40200:25:36,360 --> 00:25:39,390the clip down version of ithandy. I'm like, but I do have40300:25:39,390 --> 00:25:41,610the whole interview or notinterview but the whole40400:25:41,610 --> 00:25:46,890presentation that the lady fromSpotify gave the investor day.40500:25:47,160 --> 00:25:50,460Yeah, yeah. And so I was like,here, I'll just I'll just send40600:25:50,460 --> 00:25:53,700you this. And I'll let me let mefind the place to start. It's40700:25:53,700 --> 00:25:56,730like, I think it's two minutes Iwas listening through to it. And40800:25:57,420 --> 00:26:00,480it was like, well, there it is.There's confirmation to that. So40900:26:00,480 --> 00:26:03,060I sent you this clip before theshow. It's like at the one41000:26:03,060 --> 00:26:07,890minute mark. Just start thereand listen to what she says41100:26:08,280 --> 00:26:12,450Unknown: on the same platform.Now, think about how far we've41200:26:12,450 --> 00:26:16,710come. In just under four years,we've gone from having virtually41300:26:16,740 --> 00:26:21,060no podcast on platform to beinga global leader in the market.41400:26:21,960 --> 00:26:26,010So put this in perspective. WhenAnkur joined Spotify in 2019,41500:26:26,130 --> 00:26:30,720there were fewer than 500,000podcasts on the platform. Today,41600:26:30,810 --> 00:26:35,340there are over 4 million andanchor powers more than 75% of41700:26:35,340 --> 00:26:39,510them. And those millions ofshows being published to Spotify41800:26:39,510 --> 00:26:44,070from anchor are often being madeby first time creators. As those41900:26:44,070 --> 00:26:46,950creators make their content.They share it with their friends42000:26:46,950 --> 00:26:51,900and family off platform and theresults. On average, every new42100:26:51,900 --> 00:26:57,690anchor show brings 2.5additional meu anchor and our42200:26:57,690 --> 00:27:01,020other hosting platformmegaphone, Spotify powered shows42300:27:01,050 --> 00:27:05,970account for 45% of all podcastconsumption on platform on42400:27:05,970 --> 00:27:06,570Adam Curry: platform.42500:27:06,930 --> 00:27:09,750Dave Jones: Yeah, it's theanchor now we know what anchor42600:27:09,780 --> 00:27:13,080always existed and still existsand Spotify for podcast still42700:27:13,080 --> 00:27:16,920exists. It's an MA usually aboutand they don't give a crap about42800:27:16,920 --> 00:27:20,280those shows. No, it was neverabout podcasting is about mA42900:27:20,280 --> 00:27:20,790use.43000:27:22,050 --> 00:27:23,820Adam Curry: But they neverreally got their advertising43100:27:23,820 --> 00:27:26,610game right. As far as I cantell. Now43200:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,850Dave Jones: it will they triedto but it was too late. They43300:27:29,850 --> 00:27:33,630tried to with megaphone by goingby going into RSS heavy, but it43400:27:33,630 --> 00:27:37,560was them it's too late. And theythey they timed it exactly at43500:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,230the beginning of parcast.Winter, which is where you don't43600:27:40,230 --> 00:27:43,770Adam Curry: want to be I'llexplain meu people don't monthly43700:27:43,860 --> 00:27:46,500Dave Jones: monthly activeusers. Yeah. So that's that's43800:27:46,590 --> 00:27:50,220the monthly active users is, youknow, that is like the premier43900:27:50,700 --> 00:27:55,050number that gets report reportedfor tech companies for tech44000:27:55,050 --> 00:27:57,510companies. Yeah, it's just it'sa great it's their primary44100:27:57,510 --> 00:28:01,320growth metric. Yeah. And thenand but specifically for44200:28:01,320 --> 00:28:06,240Spotify. We, the research thatwe talked about last week was44300:28:06,240 --> 00:28:10,320that they when they in 2018,when they really renegotiated44400:28:10,320 --> 00:28:13,410their contract their royaltycontracts with the music labels.44500:28:13,770 --> 00:28:19,950The music labels, negotiated alower royalty rate in exchange44600:28:19,950 --> 00:28:24,210for guaranteed user monthly usergrowth and they may they may you44700:28:24,210 --> 00:28:26,370never had to go up at apredictable rate.44800:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,580Adam Curry: Oh, man that makesYeah, if44900:28:29,580 --> 00:28:32,910Dave Jones: they didn't hit theM au number growth numbers. They45000:28:32,910 --> 00:28:37,080had their royalty rate went backup to the previous to what it45100:28:37,080 --> 00:28:41,580was previously. Yeah, it's so Imean, anchor if every anchor45200:28:41,580 --> 00:28:44,280show brings in an extra two anda half ma you45300:28:44,310 --> 00:28:47,730Adam Curry: Yeah, which is whichis yourself and your buddy and45400:28:48,090 --> 00:28:50,070your mom and your mom. Yeah,45500:28:50,100 --> 00:28:55,050Dave Jones: yeah, half of yourmom. Yeah. Yeah, so that mean it45600:28:55,050 --> 00:28:57,750was it's always it's just it'sjust a NEMA you play it was45700:28:57,750 --> 00:29:00,840always bogus and that's why youhave you know, people that have45800:29:01,350 --> 00:29:07,650a supposedly anchor podcast inthere clearly. It sounds farmy45900:29:08,370 --> 00:29:13,860Do you know what I mean? Likethere'd be like 1000 shows new46000:29:13,860 --> 00:29:19,380shows a day or more and half ofthem are like it in 10 seconds46100:29:19,380 --> 00:29:21,480of somebody you know doing afart noise46200:29:22,830 --> 00:29:25,440Adam Curry: you would know youyou went through most of those46300:29:26,160 --> 00:29:26,580swear to46400:29:26,580 --> 00:29:29,670Dave Jones: God I mean like it'shorrible. But then it but then a46500:29:29,670 --> 00:29:35,160lot of them is just like peoplethat are clearly from like it's46600:29:35,160 --> 00:29:39,150like it's kind of like clickfarms you know there that are in46700:29:39,840 --> 00:29:43,170the right deterring country likethe Philippines and Indonesia46800:29:43,170 --> 00:29:45,660and these places where they runthese these sweatshop click46900:29:45,660 --> 00:29:50,850farms. A lot of the a lot of theanchor stuff sounded farmy to47000:29:50,850 --> 00:29:55,830me. I'm not saying that they didit, but it's like it just had47100:29:55,830 --> 00:29:58,710that weird vibe to it whereyou're like, This doesn't even47200:29:58,770 --> 00:30:00,630make sense. Why did anybody evenbother47300:30:00,720 --> 00:30:03,810Adam Curry: if there's any ifthe way they the way Spotify47400:30:03,810 --> 00:30:09,570works with with music withpurchasing fake streams getting47500:30:09,570 --> 00:30:12,900on a certain playlist paying forthat, if that's any indication,47600:30:12,930 --> 00:30:17,550I'm sure that all of the all ofthe above is true. Yeah, yeah,47700:30:17,580 --> 00:30:21,570the whole thing. The whole thingis just, it's, it's a crap show.47800:30:21,600 --> 00:30:26,190It really is. And I, you know,whatever motivated us, whatever47900:30:26,190 --> 00:30:30,210I mean, we know what the surfacereasons were, but we're on a48000:30:30,210 --> 00:30:33,930mission from God, Dave, bringout the book. This is the good48100:30:33,930 --> 00:30:38,790book. We started this at theright time and look at look at48200:30:38,790 --> 00:30:42,030the results while the pod and Ishould say the podcast48300:30:42,030 --> 00:30:48,750industrial complex winter. Well,that has set in. We have all I48400:30:48,750 --> 00:30:52,410think every single app has donean update in the past couple of48500:30:52,410 --> 00:30:56,400weeks and good updates. Goodones. Yeah, good ones. I'm blown48600:30:56,400 --> 00:31:01,470away by podcast guru. The stuffMitch is doing with POD verse.48700:31:03,060 --> 00:31:06,930The Fountain version one, whichI think is in beta still is48800:31:07,140 --> 00:31:11,670phenomenally improved. I mean,the speed the interface, you48900:31:11,670 --> 00:31:14,520know, just there's a lot ofthought went into that, that Sam49000:31:14,520 --> 00:31:19,140Sethi launched today I think andand rebranded to true fans,49100:31:19,140 --> 00:31:23,370which I think is sexy. I likedit and I like I like true49200:31:23,370 --> 00:31:28,320fans.fm And he's and he's got awhole M in his vision, which is49300:31:28,320 --> 00:31:32,040clear to me is very differentfrom what any other podcast app49400:31:32,040 --> 00:31:36,870is doing. I love that and Ithink that it'll probably really49500:31:36,870 --> 00:31:42,390come to life with this AinsleyCostello just loud show which is49600:31:42,390 --> 00:31:46,650going to be on true fans podverse podcast guru49700:31:48,540 --> 00:31:50,370Dave Jones: I have a breakdownand you wonder yes please49800:31:50,370 --> 00:31:54,060Adam Curry: please because I andI, and I love watching how49900:31:54,060 --> 00:31:58,950everyone came together thatAdobe das at RSS blue.com You50000:31:58,950 --> 00:32:02,610know he's doing the RSS feed andyou know everyone's been testing50100:32:02,610 --> 00:32:07,560it's like my heart is full andwarm from just watching all this50200:32:07,590 --> 00:32:09,030little sticky but it's50300:32:10,620 --> 00:32:16,410Dave Jones: that's the eggnog soI did I would I tuned in to the50400:32:16,410 --> 00:32:19,620one o'clock pm central time Test50500:32:19,650 --> 00:32:22,500Adam Curry: Now was thisblueberry on site as well as he50600:32:22,650 --> 00:32:26,010was he a part of this becausehe's teased in this too? I mean,50700:32:26,160 --> 00:32:27,810there's all kinds of people Imiss50800:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,470Dave Jones: I don't know if hewas on site or not but very were50900:32:31,470 --> 00:32:36,000you on site let us know Yeah. Sowe did the angular Costello live51000:32:36,000 --> 00:32:39,450test yesterday or not say we didI was not part of it but I was51100:32:39,450 --> 00:32:45,150testing it. And pod verse fiveby five worth work like51200:32:45,150 --> 00:32:47,730Adam Curry: a champ. Yeah. Andthat's on the web or the app the51300:32:47,730 --> 00:32:50,070web I guess, the the web I51400:32:50,070 --> 00:32:54,990Dave Jones: did not test ondevice for pod verse. Curio51500:32:54,990 --> 00:32:59,340caster. Also five by fivepodcast guru, beautiful,51600:32:59,370 --> 00:33:04,050perfect. Pod fans could not. AndI think Sam said this, he said51700:33:04,050 --> 00:33:08,700he had worked to do some it'slike it wanted to play and it51800:33:08,700 --> 00:33:12,480kept trying to go but some itjust wasn't working.51900:33:12,690 --> 00:33:17,580Adam Curry: Sounds like a corpsor DNS issue. It's always what52000:33:17,580 --> 00:33:19,440it is. So52100:33:19,470 --> 00:33:25,230Dave Jones: out of the fourvideo apps that we add the 14.052200:33:25,230 --> 00:33:30,150apps that we know support video,the three the four, beautiful52300:33:30,150 --> 00:33:34,050ready to go in and I'm in I'msure that Sam will get fans up52400:33:34,050 --> 00:33:38,100and running. But I mean, likewe're, it was a fun experience.52500:33:38,100 --> 00:33:41,520Um, is it was really cool to seethat52600:33:41,520 --> 00:33:43,650Adam Curry: were you able toboost as well? What did that52700:33:43,650 --> 00:33:45,840have that up? Did you check allthat stuff or just just the52800:33:45,840 --> 00:33:46,410video?52900:33:46,920 --> 00:33:50,490Dave Jones: I didn't try toboost at the time because I know53000:33:50,550 --> 00:33:55,020PUD and I was curious. Okay,Securio caster was streaming53100:33:55,200 --> 00:33:59,970auto it was streaming perminute. But I, I did not try to53200:33:59,970 --> 00:34:05,430boost through any of the Albyback stuff because I think, I53300:34:05,430 --> 00:34:07,380guess we have to talk about theLP pocalypse.53400:34:07,740 --> 00:34:09,480Adam Curry: Yeah, so of course,of course we have.53500:34:11,219 --> 00:34:13,379Dave Jones: That was taught sothat was happening at that time.53600:34:13,379 --> 00:34:15,719And I was like, okay, um, I justwant to see the video work. So I53700:34:15,719 --> 00:34:18,869was that's all I was reallyfocusing on at the moment. But I53800:34:18,869 --> 00:34:21,809mean, like, it was a greatexperience to to be able to,53900:34:21,809 --> 00:34:28,979like, pop up and pour gas guruon my phone. Or the other apps54000:34:28,979 --> 00:34:35,339on the web. And I'm justwatching them have a live jam54100:34:35,339 --> 00:34:37,739session. It was so cool. Wow.54200:34:38,369 --> 00:34:42,779Adam Curry: Yeah, it's rad. Sojust looking at some of the54300:34:42,929 --> 00:34:48,869going to another thing here. SoI was messing around with with54400:34:48,869 --> 00:34:53,129podcast guru. And I come acrossa feed and yeah, this vigilante54500:34:53,129 --> 00:34:55,709TV that kind of we I think wetalked about that the other day,54600:34:55,709 --> 00:34:58,019like these guys are doing allkinds of foreign feeds with54700:34:58,019 --> 00:35:01,619everything in there. They've gotThey've got value blokes,54800:35:01,619 --> 00:35:05,039they've got everything. And Ifind David Icke. Now, of course,54900:35:05,069 --> 00:35:08,999everyone can roll your eyesabout David Icke, lizard, Lizard55000:35:08,999 --> 00:35:15,749Man. But he, he's has in theirultimate enclosure, which is an55100:35:15,779 --> 00:35:24,089HLS video, which is clearlystreaming, streaming with value55200:35:24,089 --> 00:35:28,259blocks and everything and an onpodcast guru, it just works.55300:35:29,189 --> 00:35:32,399Really? Yes. With thealternative and closure. I'm55400:35:32,399 --> 00:35:35,579like, what I mean, what is goingon here? The stuff is moving55500:35:35,579 --> 00:35:38,549fast. This is this isinteresting.55600:35:39,030 --> 00:35:40,770Dave Jones: I think thevigilante.tv thing?55700:35:41,520 --> 00:35:44,250Adam Curry: Well, in the podcastindex is just David Icke,55800:35:44,250 --> 00:35:47,580because there seems to be threeduplicate feeds of the same55900:35:47,580 --> 00:35:49,410thing, which, okay.56000:35:51,660 --> 00:35:53,760Dave Jones: But here I say,Yeah, but56100:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,030Adam Curry: there's, but I'm upbecause it would start off with56200:35:57,030 --> 00:36:00,360the same video. I'm like, Whatis this and the progress bar56300:36:00,360 --> 00:36:05,760wasn't moving properly. And thenI started looking into the other56400:36:05,760 --> 00:36:06,600streaming.56500:36:07,950 --> 00:36:10,290Dave Jones: And they got Potter,they get a get pod roll in here.56600:36:10,290 --> 00:36:10,710Yeah,56700:36:10,740 --> 00:36:13,500Adam Curry: everything's inthere. And you know, for a gay56800:36:13,530 --> 00:36:20,100gay a guy like David Icke who,you know, inherently is not an56900:36:20,100 --> 00:36:25,020advertising friendly guy. Valueprovide value for value is57000:36:25,020 --> 00:36:27,480perfect. Perfect.57100:36:27,900 --> 00:36:30,480Dave Jones: I think out thattalked to Alex and he said that57200:36:30,990 --> 00:36:35,430the guys run into what's at hivetube, which is what vigilantes57300:36:36,360 --> 00:36:41,850okay, they took his like, loginbasically plugin work yeah. For57400:36:41,850 --> 00:36:44,310to the off and started doingtheir own things. I mean, they,57500:36:44,520 --> 00:36:49,020they pretty much forked off ofpeer tube. They've got all you57600:36:49,020 --> 00:36:51,360know, they're clearly runninghis code because it's got to 2.057700:36:51,360 --> 00:36:52,050feeds and all57800:36:52,590 --> 00:36:56,220Adam Curry: right. Dobby dassays boosting live worked on all57900:36:56,220 --> 00:36:59,220apps Dave mentioned and podverse video live stream worked58000:36:59,220 --> 00:37:04,950on mobile to price. I mean, I'm,I am going to, I'm getting a58100:37:04,950 --> 00:37:10,950couple 100 bucks in my wallets.And I'm going to run all five of58200:37:10,950 --> 00:37:14,310them at the same time. And boosteverybody the same. So Merry58300:37:14,310 --> 00:37:15,420Christmas, everybody.58400:37:17,160 --> 00:37:19,230Dave Jones: You bet the SATcanon.58500:37:20,730 --> 00:37:21,960Adam Curry: Pew, pew, pew, pew.58600:37:23,730 --> 00:37:27,120Dave Jones: That's a good idea.Yeah. And they load up, load up58700:37:27,120 --> 00:37:30,180a fat wallet and do it to that.I'm looking forward to it. So58800:37:30,180 --> 00:37:32,280it's the 20/20.58900:37:32,490 --> 00:37:35,100Adam Curry: I think 20. There'stwo shows the 20th and the 21st.59000:37:35,130 --> 00:37:40,080I think Ainslie costello.com.Our just loud world.com has all59100:37:40,080 --> 00:37:43,290the info. Just one other thing Iwanted to mention about because59200:37:43,290 --> 00:37:48,540I was listening to the new mediashow. And I was here's the funny59300:37:48,540 --> 00:37:53,040thing was about advertising andabout stats and numbers. And you59400:37:53,040 --> 00:37:57,210know how tricky it is. And thefirst I would say if I, if I had59500:37:57,210 --> 00:38:05,220a an advertising base show thatI had to show numbers to an59600:38:05,220 --> 00:38:09,720advertiser, but I would handsdown, run that through59700:38:09,750 --> 00:38:14,550blueberry, I believe ToddCochran has the best, most59800:38:14,580 --> 00:38:20,550honest, most fair numbers in theworld. Now. I mean, I just I59900:38:20,550 --> 00:38:23,880know the work he's done on that.But I'm also hearing about how60000:38:23,880 --> 00:38:28,560much money he spends, you know,to make sure that, you know, he60100:38:30,030 --> 00:38:33,990gets an updated scam list. Andthere's all these different60200:38:33,990 --> 00:38:36,840things that he has to it's like,it's like a moving target, it's60300:38:36,840 --> 00:38:40,950Whack a Mole. And he spends alot of money, time and energy on60400:38:40,950 --> 00:38:45,180it. And meanwhile, I probablysent him 20 bucks, just me in60500:38:45,180 --> 00:38:47,820booster grams, you know, just tohear my name on the show, of60600:38:47,820 --> 00:38:51,540course, of course this but thenthis, this thing came up about60700:38:51,540 --> 00:38:56,010op three and I just want itbecause I was listening to rob,60800:38:56,280 --> 00:39:00,180who says, Well, you know, thisis ideology of transparency and60900:39:00,180 --> 00:39:05,520like, what is this ideology?Crap. It's not it. So I just61000:39:05,520 --> 00:39:11,880want to explain my my feelingsabout this. I think the IAB is a61100:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,450scam. It's not that theirnumbers are a scam. But61200:39:15,480 --> 00:39:18,480everyone's numbers aredifferent. It's it's a it's a61300:39:18,480 --> 00:39:22,620recommended certification. It'snot like a centralized Nielsen.61400:39:22,650 --> 00:39:25,620The reason why television adrates are what they are. One is61500:39:25,620 --> 00:39:31,380because there's artificialsupply, scarcity, scarcity.61600:39:31,380 --> 00:39:35,640Thank you. Because it's on a 24hour clock instead of you know,61700:39:35,640 --> 00:39:39,750how much inventory do you want,but it's also one central61800:39:40,140 --> 00:39:45,150approved source. And I thinkthat what Spurlock has done with61900:39:45,150 --> 00:39:56,160Opie three is really the futurefor for any type of download62000:39:56,160 --> 00:40:01,800based ad, download base systemand I'm because if everyone62100:40:01,800 --> 00:40:05,220starts contributing to it, andwe all make it open, which is62200:40:05,220 --> 00:40:08,670not not an ideology, it's like Iwant to help people I put all my62300:40:08,700 --> 00:40:12,510all my numbers are up there. AndI don't have an advertising62400:40:12,510 --> 00:40:14,880plane it doesn't I don't look atit either. I really don't care62500:40:14,880 --> 00:40:17,520that much. Because I just wantto be I just need to know if I62600:40:17,520 --> 00:40:20,580can pay the rent. That'sbasically the numbers I've62700:40:20,580 --> 00:40:23,370looked at how much do we do? Andif not, I tell the audience you62800:40:23,370 --> 00:40:28,590know, we need more, otherwise, Ican't do this anymore. Right. So62900:40:28,620 --> 00:40:34,050so this became this whole thing.And I'm just I think there's a63000:40:34,050 --> 00:40:37,080cultural thing going on here.And I just want to make sure63100:40:37,080 --> 00:40:40,620that's out because I don't knowwhat it's like in Australia. But63200:40:40,620 --> 00:40:44,280in America if you if you tell aman your chicken you make63300:40:44,280 --> 00:40:53,010chicken noises you can you mightget shot criticism was going on63400:40:53,010 --> 00:40:56,970and on at Todd about chickendon't want to put your numbers63500:40:56,970 --> 00:41:01,710out there. Like that yellowthat's that's not in America.63600:41:01,710 --> 00:41:06,330That's that's like, slapping theglove in someone's face in63700:41:06,330 --> 00:41:09,990person. You know it. That's,that may not be culturally the63800:41:09,990 --> 00:41:11,880same thing. The dual63900:41:11,880 --> 00:41:13,740Dave Jones: challenges. Yeah.And64000:41:13,740 --> 00:41:17,880Adam Curry: I was hurting forTodd. Right. Wow, man, that's64100:41:17,880 --> 00:41:21,390really harsh. I know. Todddoesn't have to show his number.64200:41:21,420 --> 00:41:24,780No one has to do anything. But.But also it's like, Come on,64300:41:24,780 --> 00:41:29,160let's like, you know, let's justcalm down a second, that I've64400:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,090never even lashed out at BigCridland that hard. But I don't64500:41:33,090 --> 00:41:37,290think he realizes that it's anAmerica that's culturally. You64600:41:37,290 --> 00:41:41,400know how the C word and Americadoesn't mean the same thing in64700:41:41,400 --> 00:41:42,180the UK?64800:41:42,810 --> 00:41:45,390Dave Jones: No, yeah. Yeah. Soit's different. Yeah, it's64900:41:45,390 --> 00:41:49,080Adam Curry: that leveldifferent? Probably. So yeah, I65000:41:49,080 --> 00:41:51,330just need to get off my chest.I'm listening to him like, Oh,65100:41:51,330 --> 00:41:54,690my God, this is really horrible.This65200:41:55,590 --> 00:42:01,890Dave Jones: is funny. So youmentioned you mentioned blue. So65300:42:01,890 --> 00:42:06,900Todd, posted in the chat just aminute ago that he's there65400:42:06,900 --> 00:42:12,090seeing programmatic advertisingCPM, six, between $6 and $14,65500:42:12,090 --> 00:42:18,810depending on what did you know,you, you could say that, if you65600:42:18,810 --> 00:42:28,470stick it out, if you are, if youare a an advertising supported65700:42:28,470 --> 00:42:32,970show, and you stick it outthrough the dark, you know,65800:42:32,970 --> 00:42:38,130through the dark days of thepodcast winter, Z, you may you65900:42:38,130 --> 00:42:41,880know, the see this, I guess thesilver lining is the CPMs66000:42:41,880 --> 00:42:45,750probably would come up a bit.Because you're gonna have just66100:42:45,750 --> 00:42:49,860less competition. The morepodcast Oh, yeah, game drives66200:42:49,860 --> 00:42:51,660the CPMs down to down to zero.66300:42:51,660 --> 00:42:54,570Adam Curry: So it's just thewhole idea, so antithetical to66400:42:54,840 --> 00:42:58,590the love that you get from apodcast like, I'm going to rob66500:42:58,590 --> 00:43:02,010the podcast, I'm going to makeyou listen to this. Whereas I66600:43:02,010 --> 00:43:06,720mean, I'd prefer to even even ifit's Ben Shapiro going gold. I66700:43:06,720 --> 00:43:10,350mean, you know, it's all right.I mean, I can handle that. But66800:43:10,350 --> 00:43:13,200it's like, please listen to theads, please click on our, you66900:43:13,200 --> 00:43:17,220know, go to our advertiserswebsites. No, I mean, it's so67000:43:17,220 --> 00:43:20,070much easier to ask for value tobe returned. And67100:43:20,100 --> 00:43:22,920Dave Jones: I guess, you know,that's, that's what, that's67200:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,150what's wrong with all thesediscussions, is that they all67300:43:27,150 --> 00:43:31,110get talked about just like, Ijust did it. I just did this.67400:43:31,110 --> 00:43:34,770Yeah. Without thinking about it,all of these discussions, you67500:43:34,770 --> 00:43:38,190start talking about advertisingand all this kind of stuff as in67600:43:38,190 --> 00:43:42,300a vacuum as if it's a mathproblem, right, completely67700:43:42,300 --> 00:43:46,530disregard the listenerexperience, and all that stuff.67800:43:46,890 --> 00:43:52,110And as I did that, 15 minutesafter I just finished talking67900:43:52,110 --> 00:43:54,840about this Gilmore Girlspodcast, it drove me crazy.68000:43:57,240 --> 00:44:00,210Well, okay, CPMs and blah, blah,blah, blah, blah, and listener68100:44:00,210 --> 00:44:05,070counts. And it's like, it's soeasy to get enticed into that68200:44:05,550 --> 00:44:08,430into the way of thinking that isjust so this nothing but68300:44:08,430 --> 00:44:11,550metrics. Yeah, we're all you'rejust, you're just pushing charts68400:44:11,550 --> 00:44:13,440around all day, and you'rethinking and metrics and68500:44:13,440 --> 00:44:17,220numbers, and you're completelyforget that the on the ground68600:44:17,220 --> 00:44:20,370experience of listening to someof these shows is complete68700:44:20,370 --> 00:44:21,030garbage.68800:44:22,110 --> 00:44:27,210Adam Curry: And I have the samefeeling about all the AI stuff.68900:44:27,570 --> 00:44:33,240You know, it's like, okay, yeah,we're gonna make podcasting69000:44:33,270 --> 00:44:37,290easier. You know, it'll besimpler. I've heard a whole69100:44:37,290 --> 00:44:41,220conversations about, well, weneed to make the gear as to auto69200:44:41,220 --> 00:44:44,250configure itself, you know,sometimes you got to learn69300:44:44,250 --> 00:44:47,520something. You got to learnsomething. And if you learn69400:44:47,520 --> 00:44:50,040something, then you can get goodat it. And if you put the time69500:44:50,040 --> 00:44:53,700in, you know, this, it's notlike a magic money machine.69600:44:54,480 --> 00:44:56,850That's how it's treated. That'show it things on the internet69700:44:56,850 --> 00:44:59,760are always treated that way andat the end of the day, and I69800:44:59,760 --> 00:45:04,530said If you're working your tailoff for some Silicon Valley69900:45:04,530 --> 00:45:07,560company who's giving you alittle pittance at the end of70000:45:07,560 --> 00:45:11,970the ride, you are you arebuilding their business. Every70100:45:11,970 --> 00:45:15,870tweet, you send every YouTubevideo your upload, you're doing70200:45:15,870 --> 00:45:22,440it for Google them, maybethey'll give you something. And70300:45:22,590 --> 00:45:27,150they won't know the probablywon't know that when we started.70400:45:27,150 --> 00:45:30,360I wish I could find one of myold daily source code openers.70500:45:31,950 --> 00:45:36,000Because it was a British BBC guywho had interviewed me still70600:45:36,000 --> 00:45:39,840alive. I think he was out he waspretty old then. And it starts70700:45:39,840 --> 00:45:43,860like something is happeninghere. And then you know,70800:45:43,860 --> 00:45:47,070something, there's somethinggoing on. People can people with70900:45:47,070 --> 00:45:51,960anything, or nothing to say, cando this without gatekeepers. And71000:45:51,960 --> 00:45:54,840that that's really what it waswhen we first start off. It was,71100:45:54,990 --> 00:45:58,410hey, I can do this. I don't needa transmitter transmitters. We71200:45:58,410 --> 00:46:01,770don't need no strength. It wasnever I can make money just by71300:46:01,770 --> 00:46:06,090putting up an mp3 and gettingsome downloads. No, there was71400:46:06,090 --> 00:46:09,960never that. It was never that.And so this whole so called71500:46:09,990 --> 00:46:13,620industry, which still after 20years can't agree on their71600:46:13,620 --> 00:46:20,250measurements. It's not anindustry then. 20 years. Yeah.71700:46:20,880 --> 00:46:25,770Dave Jones: I still love that.20 years on. downloads can71800:46:25,770 --> 00:46:29,940evaporate 20% over overnight.And we're like whoa.71900:46:32,130 --> 00:46:33,840Adam Curry: What? Yeah, like,72000:46:33,870 --> 00:46:36,030Dave Jones: like, oh, we, youknow, we we get this stuff72100:46:36,030 --> 00:46:42,660nailed down. It's fine. And it'slike whoosh, yeah. What do you72200:46:42,660 --> 00:46:47,850want to see? You know, what'sweird is in this hive tube feed.72300:46:48,870 --> 00:46:54,120They have a tag in here calledpodcast colon search. Oh, that's72400:46:54,120 --> 00:46:57,390Adam Curry: not a real tag. No.Interesting.72500:46:57,840 --> 00:46:58,620Dave Jones: winging it.72600:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,720Adam Curry: Like Sam like SamSethi. Sam Sethi just every72700:47:03,720 --> 00:47:05,490idea. Oh, I did that.72800:47:06,660 --> 00:47:08,580Dave Jones: Hey, Sam, do youknow that they have a tag? You72900:47:08,580 --> 00:47:13,770don't have? Yeah, maybe better?Yeah. Yeah, fight go.73000:47:14,460 --> 00:47:17,520Adam Curry: So what wasinteresting is that Sam put in73100:47:17,520 --> 00:47:22,170the alternate enclosure. And Iguess this is it's a hack. I73200:47:22,170 --> 00:47:26,430guess it was based upon kind ofa flippant remark we made about73300:47:26,670 --> 00:47:34,350embedding a YouTube video as anenclosure. And so true. fans.fm73400:47:34,380 --> 00:47:38,520has that working? I saw Mitchwas working on some stuff. And73500:47:38,520 --> 00:47:41,250there was some back and forth,you know, if anyone if this is73600:47:41,310 --> 00:47:44,760have we decided if this is evenpossible? I mean, Alex Gates was73700:47:44,760 --> 00:47:49,230very clear that, you know, youcan there's a way you can access73800:47:49,230 --> 00:47:53,100the HLS stream or something, butthe apps would have to do some73900:47:53,100 --> 00:47:56,460decoding. I mean, is this havewe determined if this is a thing74000:47:56,460 --> 00:47:57,030or not?74100:47:58,410 --> 00:48:01,590Dave Jones: I could have swornthat I saw somebody saying that74200:48:01,590 --> 00:48:06,060it worked. But I don't rememberwho or what, or anything like74300:48:06,060 --> 00:48:11,430that. I mean, it would, it's gotto be easy to test. You know, I74400:48:11,430 --> 00:48:17,220mean, like, it just has to bebecause the altered the HLS74500:48:17,220 --> 00:48:21,270streams are supported, like inpod verse in pod fans and74600:48:21,270 --> 00:48:21,750podcast74700:48:21,750 --> 00:48:23,670Adam Curry: gurus. Clearly Yeah.74800:48:23,940 --> 00:48:26,430Dave Jones: And curio caster.Right. But then the thinking74900:48:26,430 --> 00:48:30,450Adam Curry: was that thatwouldn't be possible YouTube75000:48:30,480 --> 00:48:33,960wouldn't let that happen. I'mjust wondering if if we'd75100:48:33,960 --> 00:48:37,020figured that out? Because I'dlove to try it. I mean, I know75200:48:37,020 --> 00:48:40,560that Steven B is threatened toput alternate enclosures into75300:48:40,560 --> 00:48:43,770sovereign feeds of course. Lovethat guy.75400:48:45,300 --> 00:48:52,200Dave Jones: Yeah, but I mean,yeah, I think that that's see75500:48:52,200 --> 00:48:55,500that I mean, there's thistension between between the75600:48:55,500 --> 00:49:01,020stuff that Sam is doing and thethe hosting companies. No,75700:49:01,020 --> 00:49:05,280Adam Curry: I know that Iunderstand why I get it. But if75800:49:05,280 --> 00:49:10,710I want to put a PDF into myenclosure, that's valid. As long75900:49:10,710 --> 00:49:12,090as I have the MIME type inthere.76000:49:13,500 --> 00:49:16,140Dave Jones: Yeah, it's just uh,the the alternate enclosure. I76100:49:16,140 --> 00:49:16,740mean, that's what76200:49:16,740 --> 00:49:18,360Adam Curry: it's for. Yeah,exactly.76300:49:20,370 --> 00:49:22,320Dave Jones: And I think the Ithink the idea is to run you76400:49:22,320 --> 00:49:28,110know, if if this Silicon Valleyis going to if they're going to76500:49:28,140 --> 00:49:31,530take everything from you andgive you nothing, well, then,76600:49:31,620 --> 00:49:34,860you know, let's ride the master.Advantages76700:49:34,860 --> 00:49:37,950Adam Curry: take it from Oh,ultimate enclosures is indeed in76800:49:38,370 --> 00:49:40,650sovereign feeds. Well, could76900:49:40,650 --> 00:49:43,500Dave Jones: you here's thehere's, here's the good, here's77000:49:43,500 --> 00:49:44,730the good, what could you77100:49:46,260 --> 00:49:49,620Adam Curry: check it out? I caneven I can add the source URI77200:49:49,620 --> 00:49:54,630and then type length bitrateheight, language. Arielle,77300:49:54,660 --> 00:49:57,480codecs, default all kinds ofstuff is in here.77400:49:58,500 --> 00:50:01,110Dave Jones: When did Steven dothat? When does he Does he? What77500:50:01,110 --> 00:50:02,340does he do all this stuff?77600:50:02,820 --> 00:50:04,560Adam Curry: Right after he putsthe kids to bed?77700:50:06,089 --> 00:50:06,989Dave Jones: While he's puttingit?77800:50:08,790 --> 00:50:11,040Adam Curry: Oh, cool, so I canmess around with that now,77900:50:11,460 --> 00:50:14,820Dave Jones: because I want Iwonder if you could do unlist an78000:50:14,850 --> 00:50:19,860unlisted YouTube video? Oh, andthen just grabbed HLS out of78100:50:19,860 --> 00:50:22,620that. Yeah, I just use that asthe78200:50:22,680 --> 00:50:25,230Adam Curry: I just need to knowjust need to know how to, quote78300:50:25,230 --> 00:50:26,910unquote grab the HLS78400:50:27,540 --> 00:50:30,510Dave Jones: Yeah, I don't knowthat that's, I don't know. I78500:50:30,510 --> 00:50:35,040would assume that something likesomething like YouTube DLC, you78600:50:35,040 --> 00:50:35,580know, like that can78700:50:35,580 --> 00:50:37,980Adam Curry: write? Right? Youcan pick it up from there.78800:50:38,430 --> 00:50:42,510Dave Jones: I bet you that was abet you that shows you only try.78900:50:45,240 --> 00:50:51,870Let's see if they've got a do Ihave you to DLC to deal? See? I79000:50:51,870 --> 00:50:55,860do not. I will. And I'm notgoing to install it right now.79100:50:55,860 --> 00:50:57,390Because that would crash mycomputer.79200:50:57,480 --> 00:51:02,910Adam Curry: We got 25,000 SATsfrom Todd Cochran. Oh, he says79300:51:02,970 --> 00:51:06,480way behind on episodes afterbeing away for three weeks on a79400:51:06,480 --> 00:51:10,140brain break. Oh, man, is itokay, we're able to put it back79500:51:10,140 --> 00:51:15,270together the break is the newhack to use YouTube video79600:51:15,300 --> 00:51:19,560annoyed me. And it still does abit Oh, I like this. Being79700:51:19,560 --> 00:51:23,610blueberry has supported throughvideo podcasts since the begin79800:51:23,640 --> 00:51:27,330beginning fully podcasting twopoint podcasting to enable.79900:51:27,600 --> 00:51:30,930Getting to point this is theonly function I can get behind80000:51:30,930 --> 00:51:34,410an alt enclosure support whichwe can position as a worthwhile80100:51:34,410 --> 00:51:38,040feature. That said once Davegets our namespace proposal move80200:51:38,040 --> 00:51:42,450forward, we can kill two birdswith one stone. I understand why80300:51:42,450 --> 00:51:46,260you're annoyed by that Todd, Iget that. I do.80400:51:47,790 --> 00:51:51,510Dave Jones: But look at it thisway, though. video, YouTube.80500:51:51,780 --> 00:51:54,150Blueberry is one of the only oneonly hosting companies to80600:51:54,150 --> 00:51:59,490support video as an option, andit costs a lot more money80700:51:59,490 --> 00:52:04,530because of the bandwidthrequirements. This way, you you80800:52:04,530 --> 00:52:08,820keep a customer with and theycan put in their own alternate80900:52:08,820 --> 00:52:14,010video stream perhaps usingYouTube HLS they're going to go81000:52:14,010 --> 00:52:18,210do it themselves. But you keepthe customer because and they81100:52:18,210 --> 00:52:23,970don't bail to YouTube or someother video platform. And but81200:52:23,970 --> 00:52:26,400they don't it doesn't cost themany extra. Yeah,81300:52:26,400 --> 00:52:30,600Adam Curry: I'm not even gonnaget into that argument. What81400:52:30,600 --> 00:52:33,420what is the proposal that he'stalking about? This is the81500:52:33,450 --> 00:52:37,470ultimate feed proposal.Majority. Yeah. Anything that I81600:52:37,470 --> 00:52:38,430think that's fine too.81700:52:40,320 --> 00:52:45,990Dave Jones: Right. Yeah, the onethe discussion we have. Again,81800:52:45,990 --> 00:52:47,550namespace stuff to talk about.81900:52:48,210 --> 00:52:49,860Adam Curry: You don't want ityou want is you want to fire it82000:52:49,860 --> 00:52:57,960up. Hit it. And now it's timefor some hot names call so hot82100:52:57,960 --> 00:53:00,150is heating up the podcastwinter.82200:53:03,060 --> 00:53:07,170Dave Jones: We kind of somethingmakes me want to want like a82300:53:07,170 --> 00:53:09,960Christmas version of hotnamespace.82400:53:10,140 --> 00:53:12,780Adam Curry: Okay, hold on asecond. I think we can do this82500:53:12,780 --> 00:53:15,630flip with like sleigh bells orsomething you name Let me see.82600:53:15,660 --> 00:53:18,060Let me say why don't we try thisagain? Let's see if we can do82700:53:18,060 --> 00:53:26,790this. Is not it? No, that's noteven close now. Okay, let's try82800:53:26,790 --> 00:53:35,640it again. And now it's time forsome namespace. You go Christmas82900:53:35,640 --> 00:53:38,340namespace talk. Yeah.83000:53:38,970 --> 00:53:42,990Dave Jones: Maybe you want to,maybe you have an eggnog with83100:53:43,470 --> 00:53:45,390with some leg of Mulan.83200:53:50,070 --> 00:53:52,980Adam Curry: Wow, that's veryinsulting to the Lagavulin, but83300:53:52,980 --> 00:53:53,460okay.83400:53:56,970 --> 00:53:59,310Dave Jones: MacAllan 18. Oh,yeah,83500:53:59,310 --> 00:54:01,800Adam Curry: it gets gets better,gets better McCallum83600:54:02,670 --> 00:54:05,130Dave Jones: and you're like,hey, sweet. Hey, sweetheart. Can83700:54:05,130 --> 00:54:08,370we talk about namespace thelightning, the lightning83800:54:08,370 --> 00:54:10,830interest attribute on the valuetag?83900:54:10,890 --> 00:54:14,760Adam Curry: Yeah. Oh, honey, I'mso hot for you right now. And84000:54:14,760 --> 00:54:17,640Dave Jones: she says I want todivorce. Right.84100:54:18,090 --> 00:54:18,750Adam Curry: Right away.84200:54:19,920 --> 00:54:23,220Dave Jones: That is that that issomething that we need to talk84300:54:23,220 --> 00:54:29,340about. So the lightning addressthing in the value. We talked84400:54:29,340 --> 00:54:35,100about this briefly a few weeksago. Oscar and and the lb guys84500:54:35,580 --> 00:54:43,110wanted it. Want an ad want a newattribute on the value recipient84600:54:43,110 --> 00:54:49,020tag? That would take a lightninga key send address, right? So84700:54:49,020 --> 00:54:52,440that you could say like, youknow, David get alby.com instead84800:54:52,440 --> 00:54:58,980of the 100 node ID which isfine. The sticking point though.84900:55:00,000 --> 00:55:04,260It has been two things. What doyou call it? I think we've got85000:55:04,260 --> 00:55:05,070that settled.85100:55:05,610 --> 00:55:07,260Adam Curry: But then what do wecall it? What85200:55:07,260 --> 00:55:10,380Dave Jones: is the name? Is theattributes just going to be85300:55:10,380 --> 00:55:15,090called Kison? Lightning addressthingy? Is Lola will already85400:55:15,330 --> 00:55:17,190Adam Curry: work? You said.Yeah,85500:55:17,190 --> 00:55:21,630Dave Jones: keys. And so theidea here would be that you have85600:55:22,080 --> 00:55:27,450a instead of a type of node, youhave a type of keys and and that85700:55:27,660 --> 00:55:32,070unlocks a key send attribute,which then has the key send85800:55:32,070 --> 00:55:40,590address in it like David getalbedo? That's fine, except for85900:55:40,620 --> 00:55:45,690a couple of couple of things. Isthis is this than an exclusive86000:55:45,690 --> 00:55:52,440thing? Does that mean that nowall that you have in the value86100:55:52,440 --> 00:55:59,430recipient tag is just the keysend attribute with the key send86200:55:59,430 --> 00:56:05,070address in it? Or do you alsostill retain the node ID, the86300:56:05,070 --> 00:56:08,490address attribute with the nodeID in it also, and then you just86400:56:08,490 --> 00:56:14,310have a situation where where theaddress is tried first? You86500:56:14,310 --> 00:56:15,810know, you'd like it, then youhave both, but you have a86600:56:15,810 --> 00:56:21,870priority. One one over theother. That's, that's one thing86700:56:22,020 --> 00:56:26,160that we don't know yet. Thatthat Michael from WaveLight86800:56:26,160 --> 00:56:30,660brought up. And then the otherthing is, where does the86900:56:30,660 --> 00:56:34,680resolution happen? So the twopeople bringing this up, or87000:56:34,860 --> 00:56:38,070Oscar for fountain and the gasfrom Alby?87100:56:39,090 --> 00:56:41,850Adam Curry: Yeah, that was justa good question. Where does the87200:56:41,850 --> 00:56:45,000resolution happen? Because in mycase, that means it got to set87300:56:45,000 --> 00:56:49,170up a server, I gotta have a certgotta do all kinds of87400:56:49,170 --> 00:56:51,270Dave Jones: Oh, no, no, no, no,no, no, this, I'm talking about87500:56:51,270 --> 00:56:52,650client side resolution.87600:56:53,970 --> 00:56:56,610Adam Curry: How do they resolveit? Where do they resolve it? At87700:56:56,610 --> 00:56:57,420what point?87800:56:57,840 --> 00:57:01,980Dave Jones: Right? Does the soin this case, cast ematic has to87900:57:01,980 --> 00:57:05,940look has to do it looks intosplits? Do they have to look up88000:57:05,940 --> 00:57:09,780the address before they send youthe split? So that they can get88100:57:09,810 --> 00:57:16,260the node ID the correct node IDsto send in the lb API calls? Or88200:57:16,260 --> 00:57:23,070can or can Franco just providethe address in the lb API call?88300:57:23,880 --> 00:57:27,840And lb does the lookup on theirside? Whoo,88400:57:27,870 --> 00:57:30,780Adam Curry: well, that soundsdangerous, because now you have88500:57:30,780 --> 00:57:38,010something that is specific tothe wallet. And the wallets API88600:57:38,010 --> 00:57:40,830instead of something universalthat everybody can just88700:57:40,860 --> 00:57:45,300implement and say, okay, but Ihave to look this up. Right?88800:57:45,390 --> 00:57:50,160Because let's put it this way,if it's wallet side, and I88900:57:50,160 --> 00:57:54,030decided for whatever reason Iwanted to do Adam mccurry.com, I89000:57:54,030 --> 00:57:57,300would have to provide thatsomehow.89100:57:59,880 --> 00:58:01,290Dave Jones: Right? If you're ifmy89200:58:01,290 --> 00:58:04,770Adam Curry: wallet and API likethat, I mean, it's easier for me89300:58:04,770 --> 00:58:09,120to do, even though a pain in theass, and I won't do it, it will89400:58:09,120 --> 00:58:13,320be easier for me to set up areverse proxy on my start nine89500:58:13,320 --> 00:58:17,520and have a well known addresstype file there that just you89600:58:17,520 --> 00:58:20,790know, serves it up instead oftrying to figure out how to bake89700:58:20,790 --> 00:58:21,960that into my wallet.89800:58:23,100 --> 00:58:27,720Dave Jones: I agree. I agree.And so that, then that's really89900:58:27,720 --> 00:58:31,110that's that's the issue. I don'tthink we can move forward until90000:58:31,110 --> 00:58:34,110we have an answer. Do we have ananswer to that question? Because90100:58:34,110 --> 00:58:37,290that's the prioritizationquestion. I think we can. I90200:58:37,290 --> 00:58:39,960think we can plow ahead and comeup with something on that. That90300:58:39,960 --> 00:58:43,050makes sense, right. But theissue of where it gets resolved,90400:58:43,770 --> 00:58:44,160if90500:58:44,220 --> 00:58:46,620Adam Curry: I'm sorry, could youexplain the prioritization one90600:58:46,620 --> 00:58:48,750more time, just so I understandwhat's happening there?90700:58:49,200 --> 00:58:52,320Dave Jones: Well, that was justan issue of like, do do we keep?90800:58:52,860 --> 00:58:55,860So in one. So with that you haveit, let's say you have a value90900:58:55,860 --> 00:58:58,920recipient, and it's got to endthe value recipient is of type91000:58:58,920 --> 00:59:06,780key send, instead of type node,then now do you still keep the91100:59:06,780 --> 00:59:10,260node address attribute in thereand also have a key send91200:59:10,260 --> 00:59:15,270address? And you just say, okay,hey, clients, try key send91300:59:15,270 --> 00:59:20,820address first. If that fails,then fall back to try the node.91400:59:20,820 --> 00:59:23,790Id got it. That's a little itcan get a little squirrely.91500:59:24,390 --> 00:59:24,810Yeah,91600:59:25,080 --> 00:59:28,110Adam Curry: hold on a second.Try the keys and address first91700:59:28,110 --> 00:59:33,090so so there's there will be afail basically, on my on my91800:59:33,090 --> 00:59:37,200blocks, first, it will be afail. So why do we why are we91900:59:37,200 --> 00:59:39,780giving that priority? Am Istanding?92000:59:40,020 --> 00:59:42,630Dave Jones: Yeah, you'remisunderstands the values. This92100:59:42,630 --> 00:59:47,430is only if the value recipienttype is equal to keys and if it92200:59:47,430 --> 00:59:50,850remained if your value recipienttype is no like it's always been92300:59:51,960 --> 00:59:55,470not an issue because the becausethe key said address attribute92400:59:55,470 --> 00:59:58,950is not even going to be in thetag. Okay, got it. Yeah, but92500:59:59,700 --> 01:00:04,530this I don't, I was hoping towrap this up quickly. But that92601:00:05,460 --> 01:00:10,260that issue of of something likecast ematic, potentially having92701:00:10,260 --> 01:00:14,580to resolve multiple addressesbefore they can even do the92801:00:14,580 --> 01:00:20,310lookups. Like, that's just thatis a that's a showstopper man.92901:00:20,640 --> 01:00:25,410And I think if if Albie orwhoever is, you know, whichever93001:00:25,410 --> 01:00:30,870API's are providing the paymentservices, if they can put the93101:00:30,870 --> 01:00:34,920if, if they want this, I feellike they should put it into93201:00:34,920 --> 01:00:39,510their API to allow this to beresolved on their end. Because93301:00:39,510 --> 01:00:43,590it's, it's such a heavy lift fora client to have to send93401:00:43,590 --> 01:00:48,960potentially dozens of HTTPrequests before they can start,93501:00:49,110 --> 01:00:53,280pay, even start the payment.Yes, caching and all that stuff.93601:00:53,280 --> 01:00:56,070But you don't have a lot ofclients that state to have to93701:00:56,070 --> 01:00:57,180handle. But93801:00:57,210 --> 01:01:00,360Adam Curry: so so when you havean app that is just used to93901:01:00,360 --> 01:01:05,550sending a key send payment, whatdoes the app developer have to94001:01:05,550 --> 01:01:09,210change now? Do they have to talkto the Alby API?94101:01:10,710 --> 01:01:14,250Dave Jones: Well, if they soregarding the whole94201:01:14,250 --> 01:01:16,320Adam Curry: lightning idea,doesn't it? Well,94301:01:16,320 --> 01:01:21,570Dave Jones: the way it wouldideally work is if you have if94401:01:21,600 --> 01:01:24,450they're going through and makinga payment to a value recipient94501:01:24,450 --> 01:01:31,530who has a type of node, then perexcuse me a type of send keys94601:01:31,530 --> 01:01:37,920and then they would have a link,grab the add the address out of94701:01:37,920 --> 01:01:43,860there. And just give it to theAlbie API and say, here's how94801:01:43,860 --> 01:01:46,350much to send. And you're done.Stephen94901:01:46,350 --> 01:01:50,850Adam Curry: crater with weighsin? And we take this advice from95001:01:50,850 --> 01:01:54,750him seriously? Yes, the appshould look up the well known95101:01:54,750 --> 01:01:58,380and use the Node Info in thereturn JSON data, no special95201:01:58,380 --> 01:02:00,060API. That's what he says.95301:02:02,070 --> 01:02:06,360Dave Jones: Use the Node Info inthe return JSON data that the95401:02:06,360 --> 01:02:08,880apps themselves the client,yeah,95501:02:09,960 --> 01:02:12,570Adam Curry: that's it. Butthat's, uh, now they could cache95601:02:12,600 --> 01:02:16,170they could cache but it is it isit is extra work was95701:02:16,170 --> 01:02:19,050Dave Jones: a year because thenyou got state? You know, I mean,95801:02:19,080 --> 01:02:22,170then you got to deal, then yougot to deal with one of the two95901:02:22,680 --> 01:02:26,190hardest things in, you know, inprogramming cache invalidation.96001:02:27,720 --> 01:02:30,060When do you have? You know, Idon't know. It's just, it just96101:02:30,060 --> 01:02:35,190seems like, it seems like theserver side to me, the API side96201:02:35,850 --> 01:02:39,600is the right place to do this. Imean, it's like, it's like96301:02:39,600 --> 01:02:43,710asking, you know, it's likesaying, Okay, well, I'm getting96401:02:43,710 --> 01:02:46,800all this stuff, all my all of myfeed data from the podcast index96501:02:46,800 --> 01:02:51,480API. But whenever I see a domainname, I'm gonna have to resolve96601:02:51,480 --> 01:02:55,680that myself and only ask podcastindex API for IP addresses.96701:02:55,800 --> 01:02:56,280Right?96801:02:56,280 --> 01:02:58,680Adam Curry: But but now we'retaking the beauty of the96901:02:58,680 --> 01:03:01,680Lightning Network out of theequation almost. And you're just97001:03:01,710 --> 01:03:05,250you're just doing an API call toa wallet. But97101:03:05,250 --> 01:03:07,560Dave Jones: that's what they'redoing already, though. Like,97201:03:07,590 --> 01:03:10,800like with like, with castematic. And in pod verse,97301:03:10,800 --> 01:03:13,770they're not doing directcommunication with the Lightning97401:03:13,770 --> 01:03:16,440Network. They're using LB isthere, right,97501:03:16,440 --> 01:03:18,750Adam Curry: but in that case,but now we're talking that you97601:03:18,750 --> 01:03:22,590have lbs send, and then I'll beas received so you so now the97701:03:22,590 --> 01:03:26,820sending wallet, let's just saythat cast thematic was using the97801:03:26,820 --> 01:03:32,820FUBAR wallet, which just knowshow to send key send. Now that97901:03:32,820 --> 01:03:34,380wallet now has to change.98001:03:37,410 --> 01:03:40,980Dave Jones: The way it sends? Idon't think so. No, no, no,98101:03:40,980 --> 01:03:44,700because Because Alby in this, inthis instance, Abby would be98201:03:44,700 --> 01:03:47,310doing the would they be doingthe resolution, Alby would be98301:03:47,310 --> 01:03:50,310handling node IDs the way italways did under the covers?98401:03:50,610 --> 01:03:52,620Right? Initially resolve it,98501:03:52,800 --> 01:03:55,560Adam Curry: but that's okay. Butnow,98601:03:56,670 --> 01:03:59,160Dave Jones: so like, it's sotake, take the example of you98701:03:59,160 --> 01:04:04,620have, you have your Umbral oryour start nine attached to your98801:04:04,620 --> 01:04:05,400Alby account,98901:04:05,670 --> 01:04:08,190Adam Curry: you but let's say Idon't, okay. Let's just say I99001:04:08,190 --> 01:04:11,790don't to make because Becauseyeah, now now the sending and99101:04:11,790 --> 01:04:15,120the receiving is being done onthe lb Wallet. So it's really99201:04:15,120 --> 01:04:18,030just an API call is not even alightning payment.99301:04:19,530 --> 01:04:20,700Dave Jones: You see what I'msaying? You're talking about99401:04:20,700 --> 01:04:21,990from an lb to an lb.99501:04:23,790 --> 01:04:29,220Adam Curry: I'm talking. This isconfusing, well in and I think99601:04:29,220 --> 01:04:31,920in this case is good that I'mstupid because I can ask the99701:04:31,920 --> 01:04:34,980dumb question. So let's say I'mgoing from an Alby wallet to a99801:04:34,980 --> 01:04:39,570fountain wallet. How did howdoes that work in this scenario99901:04:39,570 --> 01:04:41,130was looking up on the API?100001:04:42,690 --> 01:04:47,400Dave Jones: Okay, so on fountainlet's say you have a podcast100101:04:48,660 --> 01:04:56,100that is hosted hostless apodcast is hosted@rss.com and100201:04:56,580 --> 01:05:01,020the podcaster claimed it onfountain Yeah, and added their100301:05:01,890 --> 01:05:06,720added their note, noteinformation, which which in this100401:05:06,750 --> 01:05:11,340case would be something likedave@fountain.fm. Right, added100501:05:11,340 --> 01:05:16,680their address to their feed thatgets sent to podcasts index API.100601:05:17,040 --> 01:05:23,640Now pod verse goes to send apayment to that podcaster. They100701:05:23,640 --> 01:05:28,920see the address, make a requestto albies API to send 1000 SATs100801:05:28,950 --> 01:05:34,590to dave@fountain.fm. I'll beresolved that fountain.fm into100901:05:34,590 --> 01:05:40,770the long hex string of have thenode ID, the lightning node ID101001:05:40,770 --> 01:05:45,000that that it resolves to. Thensince the keys in payment,101101:05:45,030 --> 01:05:46,320Adam Curry: how was it resolvingit?101201:05:47,940 --> 01:05:49,320Dave Jones: Using the dot wellknown?101301:05:50,940 --> 01:05:52,800Adam Curry: So the wallet doesthe resolution.101401:05:54,240 --> 01:05:57,000Dave Jones: The the API makingthe payment would do the101501:05:57,000 --> 01:06:04,140resolution? If if it's goingthrough an API, like like so101601:06:04,140 --> 01:06:07,500for, you know, in this regard,pod verse never does anything101701:06:07,500 --> 01:06:11,520itself, it always uses lb,right. So I'm saying that I'm101801:06:11,520 --> 01:06:16,320saying that if lb wants thisfunctionality, they should101901:06:16,320 --> 01:06:19,650provide the address resolutionservices. So the clients don't102001:06:19,650 --> 01:06:20,940have to do anything diff. So102101:06:20,940 --> 01:06:24,510Adam Curry: let's say there's apodcast app. And I'm just102201:06:24,540 --> 01:06:29,970imagining something crazy. Let'ssay that I want to send this102301:06:29,970 --> 01:06:33,570payment from my own start ninenode that I had, that's my102401:06:33,570 --> 01:06:37,770wallet, which is act technicallynot mounting, that's a thing102501:06:37,770 --> 01:06:46,260except through Guillermo is onwas it called?102601:06:47,460 --> 01:06:50,670Dave Jones: The Chromeextension, pod station, pod102701:06:50,670 --> 01:06:51,150station,102801:06:51,180 --> 01:06:53,910Adam Curry: pod station, I canconnect to my own node. Now how102901:06:53,910 --> 01:06:54,570does it work?103001:06:57,720 --> 01:07:04,560Dave Jones: The in that, in thatsituation? Since there is no API103101:07:04,590 --> 01:07:08,190intermediary API, pod stationwould have to do the resolution.103201:07:08,460 --> 01:07:12,990Adam Curry: Ah, that's where Ihave a problem. Okay, because103301:07:12,990 --> 01:07:18,180now pod station has to do has totalk to an API somewhere. So pod103401:07:18,180 --> 01:07:19,470station has to upgrade.103501:07:20,490 --> 01:07:22,800Dave Jones: Well, he does haveto chain make a change, but it103601:07:22,800 --> 01:07:25,410wouldn't be talking to an API,he would just do an address103701:07:25,410 --> 01:07:31,080resolution lookup, which is justan HTTP request. Like his his103801:07:31,140 --> 01:07:35,910his example, maybe not be, maybeit's not a great one, because103901:07:36,690 --> 01:07:40,920it's mostly a desktop app and abrowser extension. And the104001:07:40,950 --> 01:07:43,800speeds and everything areprobably not going to be a very104101:07:43,800 --> 01:07:48,660big deal. It's a bigger dealwhen you when you have something104201:07:48,660 --> 01:07:52,890like, curio caster, or and let'ssay antenna pod, if they did104301:07:52,890 --> 01:07:55,410value for value payments, wherethey don't have, they don't have104401:07:55,410 --> 01:07:58,920they have no server, they haveno infrastructure is really just104501:07:58,920 --> 01:08:04,080all client side. In that youreally don't want to have to do104601:08:04,080 --> 01:08:09,600all those HTTP recall calls on amobile app. Just in order to get104701:08:09,600 --> 01:08:12,150yourself set up to do an APIcall, just do it.104801:08:12,930 --> 01:08:16,260Adam Curry: I think that maybeI'm confusing or conflating104901:08:16,290 --> 01:08:19,230issues. The reason why I'mbringing this up is I'm as you105001:08:19,230 --> 01:08:26,190know, I'm a staunch supporter ofnon custodial wallets, non105101:08:26,190 --> 01:08:30,150custodial systems, and we'realready seeing the groaning and105201:08:30,150 --> 01:08:35,940creaking. And I think we all gota slight, like, a mini heart105301:08:35,940 --> 01:08:39,540attack when I'll be stopped.Now, it's all going to be okay.105401:08:39,870 --> 01:08:45,390But when Alby said Oh, no newaccounts, right? You know, I105501:08:45,390 --> 01:08:49,170think we should always, always,always keep in mind, a105601:08:49,170 --> 01:08:52,830decentralized world, especiallywhen it comes to the payments.105701:08:53,040 --> 01:08:58,110And we've now centralizedourselves into a box. Right? I105801:08:58,110 --> 01:09:03,390feel that I would like to usepod verse on my own node. I105901:09:03,390 --> 01:09:06,960can't. But I would like to, Ithink we need to start thinking106001:09:06,960 --> 01:09:09,720about that as we make thesechanges.106101:09:13,979 --> 01:09:20,729Dave Jones: Yeah, well, this is,this is this is the big, this is106201:09:20,729 --> 01:09:24,869the big issue. I mean, like,once you talk about anything,106301:09:25,199 --> 01:09:29,399this is, this is not just a Cripcrip to you know, cryptocurrency106401:09:29,399 --> 01:09:32,729issues, not just a bitcoin is Iknow, I know, it's true for106501:09:32,729 --> 01:09:37,049every thing. I mean, like,anytime you talk about anytime106601:09:37,049 --> 01:09:40,799you bring in paymentinfrastructure into anything.106701:09:41,579 --> 01:09:46,529Now you have to think aboutwhat's the A, what API are you106801:09:46,529 --> 01:09:50,429going to use? And are you gonnago try to do it very direct? Are106901:09:50,429 --> 01:09:54,929you going to try to use like alayered API like Stripe, plaid,107001:09:55,469 --> 01:09:58,799or something like that? I mean,these are these are sort of107101:09:58,799 --> 01:10:03,389universal questions when it Itcomes to this this type of, of107201:10:03,389 --> 01:10:11,939thing. And, you know, lb youknow, so the lb thing. Yeah,107301:10:11,939 --> 01:10:13,859you're right. It gave everybodya heart attack because it's107401:10:13,859 --> 01:10:16,799like, well, they've been, youknow, they've been growing.107501:10:16,829 --> 01:10:20,189They've clearly, you know, I'mtrying to get him on the show,107601:10:20,189 --> 01:10:25,109and I will soon. They couldn'tmake it this week. But you know,107701:10:25,109 --> 01:10:31,499clearly, clearly they've grownway faster than they were could107801:10:31,499 --> 01:10:32,129handle.107901:10:33,569 --> 01:10:36,149Adam Curry: If you look at thetelegram group, I've seen a lot108001:10:36,149 --> 01:10:39,269of Chinese people. And I'mnothing I'm, I'm not going to be108101:10:39,269 --> 01:10:42,629racist, but I'm going to be fora second. When you see the108201:10:42,629 --> 01:10:45,899Chinese showing up, you'd likeOh, man. Yeah, I would be108301:10:45,899 --> 01:10:50,069worried myself like, okay, or isit Korean? Or is it North108401:10:50,069 --> 01:10:53,159Korean, South Korean? What arethese guys wanting? There's108501:10:53,159 --> 01:10:55,799people building bots off oftheir services. And there's all108601:10:55,799 --> 01:10:59,699kinds of stuff going on. I onceI dived into what's going on108701:10:59,699 --> 01:11:02,489over there. I mean, it's notit's one thing to have108801:11:02,489 --> 01:11:07,709podcasting 2.0 API. I'm not sureeven the how much, you know, the108901:11:07,709 --> 01:11:11,579taxing amount of the nosterstuff. I have no idea. But I can109001:11:11,579 --> 01:11:14,369see there's a lot of peopledoing stuff on their API that109101:11:14,369 --> 01:11:15,599would have me freaked out.109201:11:17,130 --> 01:11:19,170Dave Jones: Was Yeah, I thinkyou're right, I think that's109301:11:19,170 --> 01:11:24,420probably very much could be aspam defense measure,109401:11:24,450 --> 01:11:28,110Adam Curry: I would think so.Well, the million SATs limit was109501:11:28,290 --> 01:11:31,710the obvious canary in the coalmine. They're like, Hey, guys,109601:11:32,040 --> 01:11:36,750our mission is we're just asmall provider for small day to109701:11:36,750 --> 01:11:41,610day payments makes total sense.But now we're look people are109801:11:41,640 --> 01:11:44,040Ms, a whole bunch of thingsgoing on at the same time. And109901:11:44,070 --> 01:11:49,740all I'm saying is and I have nobusiness, being able to really110001:11:49,740 --> 01:11:55,200given opinion about this aboutthe API stuff, and who does what110101:11:55,440 --> 01:12:00,480other than I would like to see,at all times, we always think110201:12:00,480 --> 01:12:07,650about sovereignty. So I agree.And, and this has kind of been110301:12:07,650 --> 01:12:13,050bugging me for a long time, butI would really like to just use110401:12:13,080 --> 01:12:17,550is handy to have Alby. And now Bis also my login for five110501:12:17,550 --> 01:12:22,170things, you know, which creepsme out because of Alby goes110601:12:22,170 --> 01:12:25,860down, I can't get into you know,I can't get into stuff like110701:12:25,860 --> 01:12:29,190split kit, I won't be able touse it. Who knows what will110801:12:29,190 --> 01:12:33,450happen? So I just want to makesure that we we keep the110901:12:33,480 --> 01:12:40,050ultimate future, which will haveI can guarantee you there will111001:12:40,050 --> 01:12:45,930be a day when we will need tohave a sovereign self hosted I111101:12:45,930 --> 01:12:50,400think is the term but your ownnoncustodial wallet capability111201:12:50,430 --> 01:12:54,120for this? I can see it coming.111301:12:57,090 --> 01:12:59,070Dave Jones: Probably, yeah,you're probably right.111401:12:59,099 --> 01:13:02,999Adam Curry: So I don't want thislittle like, like heart shock we111501:13:02,999 --> 01:13:07,079got the other day. I can onlyimagine.111601:13:08,880 --> 01:13:12,990Dave Jones: Well, you know, Ithink on a long enough, on a111701:13:12,990 --> 01:13:17,100long enough time scale, who Idon't nobody can say how long.111801:13:18,210 --> 01:13:24,600But I think on enough of atimescale, this. The these feel111901:13:24,600 --> 01:13:28,620like growing pains of the oventhat are natural,112001:13:28,649 --> 01:13:30,539Adam Curry: oh, look at thequality of the problem. And this112101:13:30,539 --> 01:13:33,449is these are great problems tohave. I'm excited about that.112201:13:34,079 --> 01:13:34,349Yeah,112301:13:34,349 --> 01:13:38,729Dave Jones: so you you're gonnahave, like, there's the issue112401:13:38,729 --> 01:13:42,329here is that the issue here isthat lightning is trying to do112501:13:42,329 --> 01:13:50,159something in general, that isvery, I don't want to it's Well,112601:13:50,159 --> 01:13:55,379I can't say it's trying to dosomething that's new. Like112701:13:55,409 --> 01:14:00,869lightning is doing is providingsmall, like micro transaction112801:14:00,869 --> 01:14:09,809level liquidity in a way thatis, in a way this maintain some112901:14:09,809 --> 01:14:15,059level of sovereignty, that is inhis peer to peer that is very113001:14:15,059 --> 01:14:25,019difficult to do on scale withBitcoin, because that's not have113101:14:25,019 --> 01:14:28,859the coin was built, wasn't builtfor the micro transaction stuff.113201:14:29,789 --> 01:14:33,839So it's trying to do somethingnew. And this is this was a113301:14:33,839 --> 01:14:37,799predictable growing pain becauseyou you've got, like, you can113401:14:37,799 --> 01:14:41,069see where we are. And let me tryto be more clear on and I'm113501:14:41,489 --> 01:14:45,449being hard to understand here.But like, you can even see like113601:14:45,479 --> 01:14:48,119think about where we wereeverybody running their own113701:14:48,119 --> 01:14:55,199node, one lnd, sphinx voltage orwhatever, right? Then you have113801:14:56,219 --> 01:15:01,229Ellen pay, which is sort of nextstep. If first step of evolution113901:15:01,229 --> 01:15:07,079there. LB which is next step ofevolution project out into the114001:15:07,079 --> 01:15:15,749future and you have you havesomething Greenlight esque. That114101:15:15,749 --> 01:15:23,249is that is sovereign. That isgood noncustodial but still is114201:15:23,249 --> 01:15:27,839May is portable, right? Like,how's the trend cloud vs. We're114301:15:27,839 --> 01:15:31,259trying to get from where we arenow to where it to that thing.114401:15:31,979 --> 01:15:37,529And like that's a that's whatthe next X amount of time is114501:15:37,529 --> 01:15:41,879going to be like. It's we'regetting there. But it's just a114601:15:41,879 --> 01:15:45,119hard transition to make andlike, look at what Alex had to114701:15:45,119 --> 01:15:49,229do with no agenda to I mean, noagenda to he had to shut down114801:15:49,229 --> 01:15:53,099signups on that because of spamsignups. You can only imagine114901:15:53,099 --> 01:15:58,529what, you know, what it what thespam volume and hat and huckster115001:15:58,529 --> 01:16:02,129volume is, when you know, whenyou're talking about a payment115101:16:02,129 --> 01:16:06,839platform. Now, it's now it'sjust off the chart, you know, so115201:16:06,899 --> 01:16:10,079that, it surprises me that theydidn't run into this problem115301:16:10,079 --> 01:16:16,979sooner. And when it comes whenyou get to that day, where your115401:16:16,979 --> 01:16:22,379spam signup volume is, it, it'slike every, it's like it's a115501:16:22,379 --> 01:16:26,069trickle and a trickle and then aflood, right. And when that day115601:16:26,069 --> 01:16:29,429hits, it's heartburn. And you,you really don't know what else115701:16:29,429 --> 01:16:32,849to do other than just like stopsign ups and say, you've got to115801:16:32,849 --> 01:16:37,769email me so we can vet you whothe human being Yeah. But I feel115901:16:37,769 --> 01:16:40,259like, I feel like we're in thisis why I want to get him on the116001:16:40,259 --> 01:16:43,829show. So we can hear so we cantalk about, like, get an idea116101:16:43,829 --> 01:16:45,959what the future plans are. Andthey've talked, you know, they116201:16:45,959 --> 01:16:48,809talked about on office hours theother day, it sounds like their116301:16:48,809 --> 01:16:53,459future plans are exactly whatwe've, what we're thinking they116401:16:53,459 --> 01:16:57,929probably are. But they just hadthis like, you know, they had116501:16:57,929 --> 01:17:00,929some some event that happenedwhere they were like, Oh, crap,116601:17:01,049 --> 01:17:07,499right. So I don't know. I mean,it's still the best is still the116701:17:07,499 --> 01:17:12,959best solution for for for PI for2.0. Apps. Yeah, now it's out116801:17:12,959 --> 01:17:13,439there. Right.116901:17:13,439 --> 01:17:17,459Adam Curry: But but but as wemove forward. So we we come back117001:17:17,459 --> 01:17:25,709to the original question. Do wehave who who does the lookup and117101:17:25,979 --> 01:17:27,299and how was that handled?117201:17:29,819 --> 01:17:32,579Dave Jones: I don't see how wecan move forward with a with a117301:17:32,579 --> 01:17:38,339proposal that where the lookupshave to happen client side?117401:17:40,979 --> 01:17:43,289Well, let me let me take thatback. That was the wrong way to117501:17:43,289 --> 01:17:47,969say that. I don't see how wemove forward until we have until117601:17:47,969 --> 01:17:50,969we have lb tail and I've askedthem this in the discussion117701:17:50,969 --> 01:17:57,599thread. If lb can provide thelookup for us. That I think that117801:17:57,599 --> 01:18:03,539needs to be, like I said it'slike it's like expecting the117901:18:03,539 --> 01:18:07,949podcast index API to only dealwith IP addresses and all the118001:18:08,039 --> 01:18:10,799the DNS host names have to beresolved before you send a118101:18:10,799 --> 01:18:15,569request. Right? It just doesn'tseem like it's a mismatch. And118201:18:15,629 --> 01:18:18,149Alex is right. You know, hesaid, the wallet providers,118301:18:18,689 --> 01:18:21,239wallet providers can communicatewith the feed hosts when the118401:18:21,239 --> 01:18:26,249lightning info changes like thepub key. That's come that there118501:18:26,249 --> 01:18:31,169again, that's completely thesame it doesn't it that's for118601:18:31,169 --> 01:18:35,249set for self hosted feeds, likepower press feeds, and those118701:18:35,249 --> 01:18:38,099kinds of things where you hadthis distributed mass of people118801:18:38,099 --> 01:18:41,909who may have the wrong node IDlisted. That's a problem. You118901:18:41,909 --> 01:18:47,159know, and I think that's whatprompted Oscar to bring this up119001:18:47,159 --> 01:18:50,129is because they've been havingto track down podcasters, one at119101:18:50,129 --> 01:18:53,039a time and had to manuallychange their feeds. Right.119201:18:53,039 --> 01:18:58,949Right. But, you know, therecould be some, you know, maybe119301:18:58,949 --> 01:19:03,269there's some proposal for aredirect. You know, I don't know119401:19:03,269 --> 01:19:07,919where it's like a node node IDto node ID redirect. I don't119501:19:07,919 --> 01:19:10,949know, we just, I just, I justfeel like to get if the if they119601:19:10,949 --> 01:19:14,999want this in and they meaningthat, you know, elbow via119701:19:14,999 --> 01:19:18,479fountain fountains already got ahandle because their API119801:19:18,479 --> 01:19:21,869internally they do all theselookups. Right, like, you know,119901:19:21,869 --> 01:19:25,139they, it's all internal to them.So you don't have to they don't,120001:19:25,319 --> 01:19:28,049it's not going to be a burden onthem. But it is going to be a120101:19:28,049 --> 01:19:31,169burden on the other 2.0 apps ifthey have to do this themselves.120201:19:31,859 --> 01:19:34,469And I think if Alby can comeback to that to the discussion120301:19:34,469 --> 01:19:38,549and say, oh, yeah, we'll changeour API, we'll we'll add an120401:19:38,549 --> 01:19:42,419extra tweak to it so that youcan send an a, like a key send120501:19:42,419 --> 01:19:46,199address instead of a lightningnode address that I think that120601:19:46,199 --> 01:19:47,849would solve the whole thing.We'll just go we'll just go120701:19:47,849 --> 01:19:49,109ahead and make that change andbe done with120801:19:49,110 --> 01:19:52,110Adam Curry: it. Okay, well,balls in their court, then.120901:19:52,530 --> 01:19:57,210Yeah, they're having me andlet's see Brooklyn 112 As your121001:19:57,210 --> 01:20:02,400resident conspiracy therapists,so Hey, brother to help us how121101:20:02,400 --> 01:20:05,580he is going through a naturalprogression. See, Brooklyn's?121201:20:05,580 --> 01:20:09,660Like, maybe the music spoke tohim. No, no, don't don't I don't121301:20:09,660 --> 01:20:11,550think you need to look too farinto this.121401:20:12,719 --> 01:20:14,759Dave Jones: yet. I think you'reright. When when the same thing121501:20:14,759 --> 01:20:17,579happened with noster Olson, he,you know, starts getting blasted121601:20:17,579 --> 01:20:21,029with Chinese spam. Yeah. Oncethat stuff starts, man, I mean,121701:20:21,029 --> 01:20:24,899it's such a bad day. It's justsuch crap.121801:20:25,109 --> 01:20:28,019Adam Curry: And you know, andexactly. And now that is the,121901:20:28,709 --> 01:20:31,559you know, I hear Sam Sethicomplaining about the spam122001:20:31,559 --> 01:20:35,369advertising. A doesn't have afilter on on Al B, these are all122101:20:35,369 --> 01:20:39,239the things those guys we'relooking at. I mean, I mean, span122201:20:39,239 --> 01:20:43,289vertising. Yeah, it may be cute,but I can see all the problems122301:20:43,289 --> 01:20:43,649with that.122401:20:43,679 --> 01:20:46,799Dave Jones: Ah, there's a call.There's a cost to every122501:20:46,799 --> 01:20:51,299transaction thing. Yeah. Yeah.And the other the other thing in122601:20:51,299 --> 01:20:56,699the namespace was deprecation.So as of split off, there's now122701:20:56,699 --> 01:21:02,039a deprecation proposals sectionin the discussion forum. So if122801:21:02,039 --> 01:21:05,399somebody if any, does anydiscussion, any talk about122901:21:05,909 --> 01:21:09,389deprecating a tag or getting ridof an attribute or anything like123001:21:09,389 --> 01:21:12,209that? Let's move it all overthere.123101:21:15,180 --> 01:21:18,750Adam Curry: Ah, this is James's,get it out of the namespace123201:21:18,750 --> 01:21:19,110part.123301:21:20,399 --> 01:21:23,939Dave Jones: Yeah, yes. So we'llwe'll talk about all that. And123401:21:23,939 --> 01:21:27,659it. I'm cool with him in aformal deprecation section. That123501:21:27,659 --> 01:21:30,239way we can talk about because Imean, there's I'm fine with123601:21:30,239 --> 01:21:35,129deprecating things but we needto move price segregate that off123701:21:35,129 --> 01:21:40,109into its own thing so that wecan because deprecation is flame123801:21:40,109 --> 01:21:41,009war city.123901:21:41,730 --> 01:21:43,890Adam Curry: Yeah, that belongslisten little section of the124001:21:43,890 --> 01:21:45,420city. Yeah, because124101:21:45,420 --> 01:21:47,610Dave Jones: everybody's gonnaget pissed at each other. That's124201:21:47,610 --> 01:21:51,120not that's so let's keep let'sjust kind of isolate it.124301:21:51,629 --> 01:21:53,909Adam Curry: Let me read off acouple of we got a lot of people124401:21:53,909 --> 01:21:56,909responding through boostedgrams. We don't even have to124501:21:56,909 --> 01:22:02,009start the segment here. But letme just run down the list. See124601:22:02,009 --> 01:22:06,509Brooklyn 112 with a nice rowducks brother 22,002 and 22.124701:22:06,509 --> 01:22:09,239Let's keep this going boys.Okay, good. So the conspiracy124801:22:09,239 --> 01:22:14,639therapy worked. net net 30,000SATs Merry Xmas movie house I124901:22:14,639 --> 01:22:20,579mean boardroom. There Stevenwith 1000 SATs we just read that125001:22:20,579 --> 01:22:24,539one Sam Sethi has been boostingall along 10,000 SATs if hosts125101:22:24,539 --> 01:22:28,349would support alternateenclosure and video. Then true125201:22:28,349 --> 01:22:31,769fans would not have to offerthis feature. We could just read125301:22:31,769 --> 01:22:37,169it from the RSS feed. Well, yes.Sam. Sam likes doing things125401:22:37,169 --> 01:22:40,619backwards. Blueberries andforums video podcasting, but not125501:22:40,619 --> 01:22:44,099also the enclosure. Does anyhost support alternate125601:22:44,099 --> 01:22:52,199enclosure? Except sovereign feeshas it now. This power press had125701:22:52,439 --> 01:22:57,509we'll see what Sam is doing isinteresting. I'm not sure I125801:22:57,509 --> 01:23:02,219agree with this method. But it'sIt's fine by me. i What I've125901:23:02,219 --> 01:23:06,389liked is we come up with anidea. And then it goes typically126001:23:06,389 --> 01:23:11,189into the podcasting 2.0 Feedfirst, because Steven bells just126101:23:11,189 --> 01:23:15,599crazy and he builds everything.And then from there, tags flow126201:23:15,599 --> 01:23:18,329out and stuff starts to happen.Now the alternate enclosure is126301:23:18,359 --> 01:23:22,409already a tag I believe, as hadbeen a tag or it's not official126401:23:22,409 --> 01:23:24,479Dave Jones: title yet. No, it'sin there. It's been in there.126501:23:24,509 --> 01:23:25,859Yep. So Sam likes126601:23:25,860 --> 01:23:28,500Adam Curry: to give people thesefeatures before they're in the126701:23:28,500 --> 01:23:32,940feeds. Yes. Which is a way to doit. Peer126801:23:32,939 --> 01:23:34,559Dave Jones: tube supportsalternate enclosure.126901:23:35,340 --> 01:23:39,240Adam Curry: Right. So127001:23:40,229 --> 01:23:41,669Dave Jones: and disk topia does,127101:23:41,910 --> 01:23:44,520Adam Curry: so but I can tellyou right now blueberries never127201:23:44,520 --> 01:23:49,290going to do alternate enclosure.So just forget it. Todd doesn't127301:23:49,290 --> 01:23:50,760want to do it. That's hisprerogative.127401:23:50,790 --> 01:23:51,930Dave Jones: Yeah, he will. Hewill127501:23:53,189 --> 01:23:56,729Adam Curry: know he won't knowhe won't. I it's it's his own127601:23:56,729 --> 01:23:57,839business reasons.127701:23:58,350 --> 01:24:00,390Dave Jones: It will wear himdown we want.127801:24:01,229 --> 01:24:03,599Adam Curry: I'm not gonna wearhim down. I'm like, gotta be127901:24:03,599 --> 01:24:04,199part of that.128001:24:05,850 --> 01:24:07,290Dave Jones: outtake I'll takethe bait.128101:24:07,409 --> 01:24:09,719Adam Curry: I mean, I'm, I'mpublishing I'm going to start128201:24:09,719 --> 01:24:11,759publishing alternate enclosuresfor sure.128301:24:12,510 --> 01:24:13,920Dave Jones: I'm gonna send himChristmas presents.128401:24:15,359 --> 01:24:17,729Adam Curry: Send him a streamdeck. It works wonders.128501:24:18,479 --> 01:24:19,019Dave Jones: No.128601:24:21,930 --> 01:24:24,630Adam Curry: Well, this is weirdbecause typically he's the128701:24:24,660 --> 01:24:28,860delimiter but we got 10,000 SATsfrom CSV just 15 minutes ago.128801:24:29,160 --> 01:24:35,820Marry pod met podcast messpodcasting. 2.0 Yo, CSB. We got128901:24:36,870 --> 01:24:41,130another Sam Sethi. 10,000 SATsis not a video hack is using129001:24:41,130 --> 01:24:44,820YouTube as a free host next weekwe will offer free video hosting129101:24:44,820 --> 01:24:52,740on on true fans so we will hostdirectly before IPFS. Well, I129201:24:52,740 --> 01:24:58,140will say the YouTube stuff ismuch easier on a web app than it129301:24:58,140 --> 01:25:03,390is in a in a native app forsure, because you can just do an129401:25:03,390 --> 01:25:07,050iframe or whatever or just orjust embedded I guess the129501:25:07,050 --> 01:25:09,030embedded tag look129601:25:09,030 --> 01:25:12,180Dave Jones: Todd said in thechat for you to pace maybe129701:25:12,180 --> 01:25:14,760alternate enclosure sees alreadycracking Wow129801:25:14,759 --> 01:25:16,769Adam Curry: take the stream deckback the cracks129901:25:17,789 --> 01:25:21,149Dave Jones: the cracks arealready forming Oh, he's a130001:25:21,149 --> 01:25:21,779pushover I130101:25:21,780 --> 01:25:30,930Adam Curry: got that was easynothing but now are you seeing130201:25:30,930 --> 01:25:34,470Bagon 1111 Thank you OYSTEINMerry Christmas to you phantom130301:25:34,470 --> 01:25:39,960power. That's from the PhantomPower Hour. 1000 SATs Dobby Das130401:25:39,960 --> 01:25:44,970is the bee's knees D and there'sDobby das with 1000 SATs with130501:25:44,970 --> 01:25:49,140his says that video worked onall of the apps 7500 from Dolby130601:25:49,140 --> 01:25:52,200das download downloads arereally the best podcast metric130701:25:52,200 --> 01:25:55,590according to Opie three.Podcasting. 2.0 has a massive130801:25:55,590 --> 01:25:57,750fan base in Nepal. That's right.130901:25:59,550 --> 01:26:04,170Dave Jones: We're huge in Nepal.at base camp, everybody listens131001:26:04,170 --> 01:26:06,630to us at base camp before theyclimb K two as131101:26:06,629 --> 01:26:10,739Adam Curry: well. We need thatout T shirt. We're big in Nepal.131201:26:12,840 --> 01:26:16,170Dave Jones: I think we areliterally big in Nepal. Nepalese131301:26:16,170 --> 01:26:17,280with a very small people.131401:26:18,420 --> 01:26:21,630Adam Curry: 10,000 SATs from Samagain evening from the UK true131501:26:21,630 --> 01:26:25,080fans is now open to all fans andlive congratulations on the land131601:26:25,110 --> 01:26:27,480and the launches. And we've beenwaiting for this for a long131701:26:27,480 --> 01:26:32,010time. I know you have for sure.So we'd love that man. Another131801:26:32,010 --> 01:26:34,9201000 SATs from phantom power.What's up fellas? Happy Friday,131901:26:34,920 --> 01:26:42,990then we have oh, okay. This isTodd with 10,000 SATs. This is132001:26:43,170 --> 01:26:47,730his analysis of numbers verysimple. And why most hosts stats132101:26:47,760 --> 01:26:51,180are down. It's largely tied totwo things. Those that count of132201:26:51,180 --> 01:26:54,840download after 60 seconds ofmedia delivered and the window132301:26:54,840 --> 01:26:59,490of time one looks at to qualifya download. Remember the IAB132401:26:59,490 --> 01:27:02,520spec and those certified onlyhave to meet the guidelines and132501:27:02,520 --> 01:27:07,140not exceed the guidelines. tiethat to Apple 17 changes are the132601:27:07,500 --> 01:27:11,040two Apple podcasts was a recipefor decline to those trying to132701:27:11,040 --> 01:27:14,280extract maximum downloads. Yeah.Which means it was the whole132801:27:14,280 --> 01:27:17,880thing is scammy. The wholeindustry is CME. Yeah, I gotcha.132901:27:17,940 --> 01:27:22,560We understand that. metus 5000SATs is too late to set up a133001:27:22,560 --> 01:27:26,880boardroom Secret Santa giftexchange. Oh, well after that133101:27:26,880 --> 01:27:31,290for next year, I think. Yeah, Ithink next year, next year, next133201:27:31,290 --> 01:27:35,610year. Then we have the 25,000.From SAS that's from Todd that I133301:27:35,610 --> 01:27:44,760mentioned. And I think what'sLinkin Park? Park rules 10,000133401:27:44,760 --> 01:27:47,820SATs have you guys checked outwhat pod home has been doing on133501:27:47,820 --> 01:27:51,540the hosting side? As a customer?It's been amazing to have access133601:27:51,540 --> 01:27:54,870to so many tools and tags. We'dlove for them to make an133701:27:54,870 --> 01:27:58,230appearance on the show by IE.Yeah, for sure. Yeah,133801:27:58,230 --> 01:27:59,700definitely. Definitely.133901:28:01,710 --> 01:28:04,680Dave Jones: A few people Iwanted to my my sort of guests134001:28:04,710 --> 01:28:06,420booking strategy for134101:28:07,680 --> 01:28:10,380Adam Curry: which has beenlagging has been134201:28:10,409 --> 01:28:12,959Dave Jones: a strategy for thelast month and a half has been134301:28:12,959 --> 01:28:13,799no strategy.134401:28:13,830 --> 01:28:17,520Adam Curry: Just no go no book,anybody. I love doing the134501:28:17,520 --> 01:28:20,190boardroom just the two of us. Imean, it's nice to have a guest134601:28:20,190 --> 01:28:23,580on but i i and this is my end ofweek therapy brother. I love134701:28:23,580 --> 01:28:24,000this.134801:28:24,240 --> 01:28:27,540Dave Jones: We needed we neededa guest break. We needed his134901:28:27,540 --> 01:28:31,830brain break and we needed to geta break. Yes. But my strategy135001:28:31,830 --> 01:28:36,300coming up is we'll have somepodcast, podcast errs on and135101:28:36,540 --> 01:28:40,620then also Yeah, for Barry. I'mat pod home gonna get him on135201:28:40,620 --> 01:28:45,180Yeah, we get back in the swingof things. Yeah. I don't like135301:28:45,180 --> 01:28:47,670having guests on two weeks in arow. That's No, no,135401:28:47,670 --> 01:28:50,070Adam Curry: no, no, that's nogood. No good. Yeah.135501:28:52,560 --> 01:28:54,840Dave Jones: We did. Or we thinkof people who want to go into135601:28:54,840 --> 01:28:55,110that. What135701:28:55,110 --> 01:28:56,850Adam Curry: did you haveanything else on that? Have we135801:28:56,850 --> 01:28:59,940tackled all of the things thatwe needed to talk about? Not all135901:28:59,940 --> 01:29:02,460the other thing, what else doyou have on your list? Well,136001:29:02,460 --> 01:29:06,300Dave Jones: I gotta get. I don'tknow if I want to get into that136101:29:06,330 --> 01:29:06,990necessarily.136201:29:06,989 --> 01:29:08,519Adam Curry: Tell me what it isthat we're not going to get136301:29:08,519 --> 01:29:09,569into. So I can remember.136401:29:10,619 --> 01:29:12,269Dave Jones: It's aggregatorstuff. And136501:29:13,319 --> 01:29:15,239Adam Curry: I gotta tell youbeen wanting to rewrite it,136601:29:15,239 --> 01:29:15,869haven't you?136701:29:16,949 --> 01:29:19,889Dave Jones: Yeah, I have butalso sort of read, do the136801:29:19,889 --> 01:29:24,599structure of it. I have a drawnout a way I think sort of mapped136901:29:24,599 --> 01:29:27,359out a way that it can bedecentralized. We can137001:29:27,359 --> 01:29:32,309decentralize the aggregation.But it's a big topic. It's too137101:29:32,339 --> 01:29:33,479we don't have enough time to gointo137201:29:33,479 --> 01:29:35,699Adam Curry: all this also notsomething we start just before137301:29:35,699 --> 01:29:40,889the holidays. No, no projectsfor the holidays as bad ideas.137401:29:41,370 --> 01:29:43,050Dave Jones: It's like no changeFridays. Yeah.137501:29:44,970 --> 01:29:46,500Adam Curry: Exactly. But137601:29:46,680 --> 01:29:50,460Dave Jones: I guess the otherthing is search improvements.137701:29:51,720 --> 01:30:02,940And this is this is tied to mynow you know nor nor me. habit137801:30:02,940 --> 01:30:07,620of listening to the GilmoreGirls podcast is so this this.137901:30:08,340 --> 01:30:14,010This podcast is called I am allin. Do you first of all, as an138001:30:14,010 --> 01:30:16,290avid Gilmore Girls fan? Do youget this reference?138101:30:16,829 --> 01:30:20,369Adam Curry: Yes, I have my ownGilmore Girls story in a moment.138201:30:21,510 --> 01:30:27,120Dave Jones: Okay. This, I feellike I should be drinking a138301:30:27,450 --> 01:30:34,080grande flat wire from Starbucksright now. But the so the name138401:30:34,080 --> 01:30:37,200of this podcast is I am all in.So if you search for Gilmore138501:30:37,200 --> 01:30:40,200Girls in the podcast index, youdo not get this podcast back.138601:30:40,440 --> 01:30:46,050Oh, nothing about this podcastis findable even though it is an138701:30:46,050 --> 01:30:49,770official podcast? You know, likefor the show, it's well, that's138801:30:49,770 --> 01:30:55,200odd. Because it doesn't sayGilmore Girls anywhere. Any of138901:30:55,200 --> 01:30:57,660the index indexable things. Sothis139001:30:57,660 --> 01:30:59,250Adam Curry: is a this is asearch problem,139101:30:59,729 --> 01:31:04,859Dave Jones: search problem. So Iwas thinking, we probably need139201:31:04,859 --> 01:31:10,949to have some way to add in someextra metadata in the dashboard.139301:31:11,759 --> 01:31:16,079So that if somebody notices aproblem like this, I really139401:31:16,079 --> 01:31:19,619wanted to be able to go into thedashboard, find this podcast,139501:31:19,829 --> 01:31:23,369and type in a few extrakeywords, Gilmore Girls, or139601:31:23,369 --> 01:31:27,509whatever. So that now so thatthe index can have some more139701:31:27,509 --> 01:31:33,479data to work with. Okay, that'sall139801:31:36,869 --> 01:31:39,599Adam Curry: you want? I'm gonnagive you my Gilmore Girls story.139901:31:39,899 --> 01:31:44,219Yeah, go for this was our COVIDlockdown binge.140001:31:45,210 --> 01:31:46,260Dave Jones: Now it's a greatbinge.140101:31:46,260 --> 01:31:49,770Adam Curry: So yes, good. I wason the TV almost all day for no140201:31:49,770 --> 01:31:55,020agenda. You know, looking atevery single new statement,140301:31:55,020 --> 01:31:58,020press conference, everything. Iwas just obsessed with figuring140401:31:58,020 --> 01:32:02,310out what was going on. And, butthen at night, we'd watch the140501:32:02,310 --> 01:32:08,550Gilmore Girls. And somewhere inAugust of 2020, there was a no140601:32:08,550 --> 01:32:12,540agenda meetup in Las Vegas. Itwas the super spreader event.140701:32:12,780 --> 01:32:17,100And by the wait, no one wassick. No one got sick after this140801:32:17,100 --> 01:32:20,940event is and so we're there andthere's this guy who had driven140901:32:20,940 --> 01:32:24,480from LA and I'm talking to him.And he says, Yeah, I was an141001:32:24,480 --> 01:32:26,760actor and I got out thebusiness. I was just sick and141101:32:26,760 --> 01:32:30,270tired of it. And, you know, I'vebeen doing I've been been141201:32:30,270 --> 01:32:34,560coaching people on some stuffand and I was like this, and141301:32:34,560 --> 01:32:38,220this maybe 6065 people there.And I'm just hooking this guy141401:32:38,220 --> 01:32:41,220and I'm like, you know, said,Hey, have I seen you in141501:32:41,220 --> 01:32:44,730anything? He says it's been awhile. I don't know. Maybe not.141601:32:44,730 --> 01:32:47,520I played Rory. He's dad onGilmore Girls.141701:32:48,090 --> 01:32:48,480Dave Jones: Oh,141801:32:48,479 --> 01:32:51,719Adam Curry: I'm like way. Iwent, oh my god, your worries141901:32:51,719 --> 01:32:58,649dad. And I started Sandra. He'sdead. As Chris Chris. David142001:32:58,649 --> 01:33:02,399Sutcliffe is his name. And hehas a podcast. And he actually142101:33:02,399 --> 01:33:06,119moved to Austin. Not long afterthat. So I was it was the142201:33:06,119 --> 01:33:08,819weirdest thing. I had an actualmoment that many people have142301:33:08,819 --> 01:33:10,679done to me. I did it to him like142401:33:14,909 --> 01:33:17,399Dave Jones: this, what is whatis his podcast? What is his142501:33:17,399 --> 01:33:18,269name? Crazy. But142601:33:18,270 --> 01:33:21,540Adam Curry: David DavidSutcliffe. David Sutcliffe?142701:33:22,649 --> 01:33:24,959Dave Jones: Search and indexfund is yeah,142801:33:25,590 --> 01:33:28,530Adam Curry: this psycho sphere.Yeah, that sounds about right.142901:33:28,770 --> 01:33:30,990Yeah. David Sutcliffe?143001:33:31,289 --> 01:33:34,889Dave Jones: Oh, it's current tohe's doing it. Yeah. Return of143101:33:34,889 --> 01:33:36,959the Jew is the name of one ofhis episodes.143201:33:37,260 --> 01:33:41,460Adam Curry: He's pretty cool,man. He's got a shot. He's not143301:33:41,460 --> 01:33:43,770value for value, though. Weshould get him on value.143401:33:43,950 --> 01:33:46,020Dave Jones: He's not actinganymore. He now he's just he's,143501:33:46,110 --> 01:33:48,060he's in the podcast industrialcomplex.143601:33:48,180 --> 01:33:54,900Adam Curry: He actually he does.What is the what is the term?143701:33:56,880 --> 01:34:00,180likes he does sessions withmultiple people, mainly women, I143801:34:00,180 --> 01:34:03,090think and they, you know, theydo weekends and retreats and143901:34:03,090 --> 01:34:06,090they talk about their feelings.And144001:34:07,439 --> 01:34:10,739Dave Jones: does it my job is Ido weekend retreats with women.144101:34:12,600 --> 01:34:16,050Adam Curry: I'm not saying it.Right. Like workshops, you know,144201:34:16,650 --> 01:34:20,760for for mental workshops andstuff. He's He's certified the144301:34:20,760 --> 01:34:22,020stuff he really got into that.144401:34:22,650 --> 01:34:24,270Dave Jones: Oh, cool. Okay,Nate. I'll144501:34:24,270 --> 01:34:26,010Adam Curry: check it out. Yeah,now he's cool. He's a cool,144601:34:26,010 --> 01:34:27,120dude. He's cool, dude.144701:34:27,929 --> 01:34:31,049Dave Jones: That's all this was.Thanks. Some people. Yes. Okay.144801:34:33,420 --> 01:34:38,040Adam Curry: I had one more thatcame in, actually to Carolyn144901:34:38,040 --> 01:34:41,55012,000 SATs. Merry Christmas.Adam and Dave love to see video145001:34:41,550 --> 01:34:45,240on pod verse. It's so cool. Itis very cool. And Mike Newman145101:34:45,270 --> 01:34:50,04017,910 Big ups for the wholecrew starting with musicians for145201:34:50,040 --> 01:34:53,820the innovation fueled by nextweek's concerts. The response to145301:34:53,820 --> 01:34:56,550updating the podcast indexfeatures for apps has been145401:34:56,550 --> 01:34:59,790really great. We point people tothat it needs to show the145501:34:59,790 --> 01:35:03,960current capabilities much betternow go podcasting. Was you mean145601:35:03,960 --> 01:35:07,710that the response updating PIsfeatures for apps? Not quite145701:35:07,710 --> 01:35:08,850sure what he means by that?145801:35:09,090 --> 01:35:11,760Dave Jones: Is that how quicklyI deploy things to the website.145901:35:11,760 --> 01:35:14,340I think that's what he means.I've been trying to be faster146001:35:14,340 --> 01:35:17,610about that what I had been doingin the past was waiting is sort146101:35:17,610 --> 01:35:21,030of batching them all up to dateand then pushing them out every146201:35:21,030 --> 01:35:21,180day146301:35:21,210 --> 01:35:22,410Adam Curry: all you know, all inone go.146401:35:23,579 --> 01:35:25,439Dave Jones: But people areadding stuff fast now. So I'm146501:35:25,439 --> 01:35:29,639trying to to be be quicker. Butonce you know, as soon as I see146601:35:29,639 --> 01:35:31,499a couple of pull requests, I'mtrying to push it immediately.146701:35:31,530 --> 01:35:34,500Adam Curry: And right at theend, here, right on the cusp.146801:35:34,500 --> 01:35:41,79045,678 45678 Dred Scott MerryChristmas to Bruce waited for146901:35:41,790 --> 01:35:44,250our podcast in 2.0. Thank you,brother with a nice little147001:35:44,250 --> 01:35:47,700Christmas tree and presentemoji. Thank you. No,147101:35:47,699 --> 01:35:51,659Dave Jones: thanks, Jared. Getwe got some pay pals we get?147201:35:53,129 --> 01:35:56,969Bigger the devil Todd and theboys of blueberry and the girls147301:35:56,969 --> 01:35:59,819at blueberry $300. Wow.147401:36:00,510 --> 01:36:05,340Adam Curry: Sakala blades on amPaula. I just like to remind147501:36:05,340 --> 01:36:08,280everybody that when he talkedabout the value for value model,147601:36:08,400 --> 01:36:12,990this is all this is what we do.We started this from zero over147701:36:12,990 --> 01:36:17,460three years ago, and we said ithas to be valued for value and147801:36:17,880 --> 01:36:20,400be heard on numbers. We don'teven make the cut for147901:36:20,400 --> 01:36:25,890advertising. Yeah. But you know,we have a project that goes148001:36:25,890 --> 01:36:28,980along with this. And so it's notjust the podcast, it's the whole148101:36:28,980 --> 01:36:33,150project. And people aresupporting it and this is exact148201:36:33,150 --> 01:36:37,290this is the the exact model andit's a beautiful mix of Fiat fun148301:36:37,290 --> 01:36:42,540coupons. Pay Pal and andSatoshis and booster grams. The148401:36:42,540 --> 01:36:45,510feedback loop is apparent we areeating our own dog food here,148501:36:45,510 --> 01:36:49,620people it really does work. Andit's not because some old ex148601:36:49,620 --> 01:36:54,060Vijay had some kind of name forhimself, believe me. It's not148701:36:54,060 --> 01:36:57,330it's not it. In fact, a lot ofpeople were like, What are these148801:36:57,330 --> 01:37:03,750nut jobs doing? Free speech?crypto. That's how it started.148901:37:04,590 --> 01:37:05,130Yeah,149001:37:05,400 --> 01:37:11,640Dave Jones: yeah. You know, Leo,are you going to do 2.0? No. Oh,149101:37:11,640 --> 01:37:12,870yeah. But not doing that crap.149201:37:12,899 --> 01:37:17,849Adam Curry: Now. Now he's. Nowhe's trying to do twit. Twit149301:37:17,849 --> 01:37:24,329Club was $7 a month, man open itup. To let a little Yep. Take it149401:37:24,329 --> 01:37:28,679take the lid off. Let peoplesupport you however they want to149501:37:28,709 --> 01:37:31,619with whatever amount that'sthat's your saving grace149601:37:31,619 --> 01:37:33,509brother. That's the way to go.149701:37:33,990 --> 01:37:37,020Dave Jones: You know, I told youI told the guys at ATP. Take149801:37:37,050 --> 01:37:41,700Take the lid off. And and takethe cap off your monthly149901:37:41,760 --> 01:37:44,670membership. And they did. Oh,and now you can give them as150001:37:44,670 --> 01:37:48,840much as you want. Oh, excellent.Yeah. Twit needs to do the same150101:37:48,840 --> 01:37:52,350thing. Take take the cap off.It's not official and it's150201:37:52,350 --> 01:37:52,950weird.150301:37:54,210 --> 01:37:57,000Adam Curry: It's weird. Like no,don't send me more money. No,150401:37:57,030 --> 01:37:57,840no.150501:37:58,080 --> 01:38:02,940Dave Jones: Yes. Thank you. Iseaten taught and the team at150601:38:02,940 --> 01:38:06,000blueberry? Merry Christmas forthe blueberry team. Dave time to150701:38:06,000 --> 01:38:09,270get busy on the namespace. Happypodcasting? Yes. We get busy150801:38:09,270 --> 01:38:10,200that we150901:38:10,200 --> 01:38:12,300Adam Curry: had the namespacehot talk today Christmas151001:38:12,300 --> 01:38:14,190version. That to get busy.151101:38:15,210 --> 01:38:20,040Dave Jones: Okay, so we got outwe got another Oh, we this is151201:38:20,040 --> 01:38:24,360from another word from Todd $50.From New Media Productions. Hey,151301:38:24,360 --> 01:38:27,990Adam and Dave Todd here, had mymain podcast into OneNote dev at151401:38:27,990 --> 01:38:30,990a conference this week. And hewill be back Monday to fix the151501:38:31,470 --> 01:38:34,500value time split bugs we foundin final testing. So fingers151601:38:34,500 --> 01:38:37,530crossed on VTS for next week.All right. Nice. Thank151701:38:37,530 --> 01:38:39,420Adam Curry: you. Thank you.Thank you. So good. As good151801:38:39,420 --> 01:38:41,220knows we love that. Yes.151901:38:41,940 --> 01:38:44,940Dave Jones: Thank you, Todd andthe team at blueberry and Lina152001:38:44,940 --> 01:38:49,800also very active over there.Thank you to her. We get up in152101:38:49,800 --> 01:38:55,0201984 4000 SATs from fountains isjust for clarification, or just152201:38:55,020 --> 01:38:57,720a clarification my blogpostabout set based advertising did152301:38:57,720 --> 01:39:00,990not involve paying listeners. Itwas just an idea for how152401:39:00,990 --> 01:39:05,280advertisers could buy ad spaceon podcast using SATs in a way152501:39:05,280 --> 01:39:07,380that would give the hostscontrol over the ads on their152601:39:07,380 --> 01:39:10,560content. Sorry for not makingthat clear in my previous152701:39:10,560 --> 01:39:11,070message.152801:39:11,819 --> 01:39:13,589Adam Curry: No, that's cool.Yeah,152901:39:13,980 --> 01:39:17,280Dave Jones: no apologiesrequired no bad career advice.153001:39:17,280 --> 01:39:21,000Chad central Richard 1111through fountain career.153101:39:22,740 --> 01:39:27,240Podcasting 2.0 podcast poll. IsSpotify a centralized pile of153201:39:27,240 --> 01:39:35,310music industry insider turd likefor yes reply for no. Oh,153301:39:35,490 --> 01:39:37,830another bad career advice chatand other sensitive Richard's153401:39:37,830 --> 01:39:40,080through fancy says I think oneof the challenges of adoption of153501:39:40,080 --> 01:39:42,450the boosting ecosystem is thefact that people have to think153601:39:42,450 --> 01:39:47,130about things in terms of walletsand transfers and Satoshis. It153701:39:47,130 --> 01:39:49,590would be cool if River andfountain could partner up to153801:39:49,590 --> 01:39:53,520have automatic Bitcoin bys whereit funds both a cold wallet and153901:39:53,520 --> 01:39:56,400a lightning wallet at the sametime. That way people have some154001:39:56,400 --> 01:39:59,970spending money, but also puttingsaps away in their long term pay154101:40:00,000 --> 01:40:00,510The Bank154201:40:00,630 --> 01:40:04,110Adam Curry: yeah there's there'sproblems as money changer154301:40:04,110 --> 01:40:08,070transmitter problems. It's morethe legality of it all then then154401:40:08,070 --> 01:40:10,800the technical issues. I'm prettysure that's what's going on154501:40:10,800 --> 01:40:11,910there. You154601:40:11,910 --> 01:40:15,390Dave Jones: know, the big thebig player in this in this whole154701:40:15,390 --> 01:40:19,110thing that is sort of missingfrom this all together a strike.154801:40:20,040 --> 01:40:25,440Yeah, yeah, strike could dothis. I feel like could do this154901:40:25,440 --> 01:40:26,010quickly.155001:40:26,730 --> 01:40:31,380Adam Curry: You know who I saw aChannel show up. BTC swan has a155101:40:31,380 --> 01:40:32,970channel channel with the index.155201:40:33,810 --> 01:40:36,000Dave Jones: Swan. Swan Bitcoin.Yes. Change?155301:40:36,030 --> 01:40:39,960Adam Curry: Yeah. So things aremoving. You're planning? Well, I155401:40:39,960 --> 01:40:43,020don't know. But there's plentyof opportunity. As you said,155501:40:43,020 --> 01:40:46,980there's so much opportunity tooffer services into these apps.155601:40:47,400 --> 01:40:50,310And the apps just have a littlea little button. There's155701:40:50,310 --> 01:40:53,490opportunity, and it'll come it'sall going to come. That's all155801:40:53,490 --> 01:40:54,330they will they will155901:40:54,929 --> 01:40:56,519Dave Jones: SLS SLC156001:40:57,600 --> 01:41:00,720Adam Curry: SLC SLC SLC. Yeah,SLC156101:41:00,989 --> 01:41:04,769Dave Jones: 12345 sets throughfountain This is what are some156201:41:04,769 --> 01:41:08,309reasons that of 2.0 app wouldprevent listener listening or156301:41:08,309 --> 01:41:11,339downloading while on a VPN? Thishappened to me less than a year156401:41:11,339 --> 01:41:15,449ago, I tried all VPN protocolsand options, no dice. I even got156501:41:15,449 --> 01:41:18,869confirmation for the 2.0 defteam, that this was on their156601:41:18,869 --> 01:41:22,739end, but said they wouldn'tshare why they were doing it for156701:41:22,739 --> 01:41:23,699security route. What156801:41:23,790 --> 01:41:26,490Adam Curry: what Deb Tino did isthat you?156901:41:28,350 --> 01:41:29,940Dave Jones: I'm not a team. It157001:41:29,939 --> 01:41:33,449Adam Curry: all depends on your,on your VPN. I mean, that's,157101:41:33,479 --> 01:41:37,379that's it, the VPN is going todetermine what what can come157201:41:37,379 --> 01:41:38,159through or not.157301:41:39,390 --> 01:41:42,030Dave Jones: Don't tell us whatapp it is. Yeah, that way we157401:41:42,030 --> 01:41:46,770could get there was a anotherone. Another was an issue for a157501:41:46,770 --> 01:41:50,550while with IPFS. over VPN. Yeah,that was the gateways were157601:41:50,550 --> 01:41:50,970blocking.157701:41:51,060 --> 01:41:56,910Adam Curry: Yes, yes. Well, IPFSso funny. ipfs.io In general,157801:41:57,180 --> 01:42:01,020you know, very often now I see aspam email come through and157901:42:01,020 --> 01:42:04,140I'll, you know, I'll hover thelink. I'm like, Oh, okay. It's158001:42:04,140 --> 01:42:07,290gonna download something fromipfs.io. Yeah, no wonder those158101:42:07,290 --> 01:42:12,270guys got killed off by about alot of spam, spam bots or158201:42:12,420 --> 01:42:14,100speaking, firewalls.158301:42:15,239 --> 01:42:17,579Dave Jones: Speaking of blockingthings, did you see where158401:42:17,969 --> 01:42:22,139threads started federating withthe fediverse and then158501:42:22,139 --> 01:42:25,019immediately blocked noster. No,158601:42:26,130 --> 01:42:29,310Adam Curry: wait, it? What isNasir on the fediverse? What do158701:42:29,310 --> 01:42:30,180you mean? Yeah, it's158801:42:30,180 --> 01:42:33,150Dave Jones: the, you know, thebridge the most or bridge? Oh,158901:42:33,150 --> 01:42:37,290really? Yes, threads, threadsstarted federating. And then159001:42:37,290 --> 01:42:40,290immediately blocked the nostrilbridge communication.159101:42:40,769 --> 01:42:43,859Adam Curry: I have this weirdobservation. Because I've been159201:42:43,859 --> 01:42:48,419studying social media for ofcourse, from the first day when159301:42:48,419 --> 01:42:52,439Twitter launched as Twitter andour micro blogging platform159401:42:52,439 --> 01:42:57,299instead of a podcast company.And six years ago, I started no159501:42:57,299 --> 01:43:02,549agenda social.com the mastodonsite about 656 years ago.159601:43:04,589 --> 01:43:12,329Without like, a proto person,like MySpace, arguably a social159701:43:12,329 --> 01:43:12,749network,159801:43:12,749 --> 01:43:14,879Dave Jones: Moto person, that'sa great term.159901:43:14,940 --> 01:43:21,060Adam Curry: Everybody had Tom astheir friend. Remember? Do you160001:43:21,060 --> 01:43:23,970remember that? The guy whostarted MySpace and name was160101:43:23,970 --> 01:43:27,450Tom. So when you started aMySpace account, you had Tom160201:43:27,510 --> 01:43:32,250that was your first friend.Okay. And with face bag.160301:43:33,180 --> 01:43:36,960Zuckerberg was kind of a big guyon there in the beginning, of160401:43:36,960 --> 01:43:41,910course, we had ever had andlater Jack Dorsey with Twitter.160501:43:43,020 --> 01:43:48,540And now Elon Musk and withthreads you know, Zuckerberg160601:43:48,540 --> 01:43:52,800hasn't posted in a month and noteven see it on no agenda. I've160701:43:52,800 --> 01:43:57,240stopped posting no agenda socialbecause it's it's a crap hit. Me160801:43:57,240 --> 01:43:57,390Oh,160901:43:57,420 --> 01:44:00,780Dave Jones: you're the Tom haveno agenda. Social. Yes. And161001:44:00,900 --> 01:44:07,410Adam Curry: I think what happensis when there's no no singular,161101:44:07,620 --> 01:44:10,620or it can be it doesn't have tobe one but one or two persons of161201:44:10,620 --> 01:44:16,350authority who you know, has somepower to kick you off. I think161301:44:16,350 --> 01:44:24,390people just lose lose all senseof decorum. And it just becomes161401:44:24,510 --> 01:44:29,850just it becomes crappy. And andthere's something about the161501:44:29,850 --> 01:44:34,980proto person of a social networkthat has to be there. And you161601:44:34,980 --> 01:44:37,710know, and Jack was that forNasr, but I feel that Jack has161701:44:37,710 --> 01:44:41,970pulled back Yeah, which means hehasn't given anybody any more161801:44:41,970 --> 01:44:46,290money. And I think it's thatthat's you know, there's there's161901:44:46,290 --> 01:44:49,530no person but Oh, yeah. Oh,Jack, he follows me. He tagged162001:44:49,530 --> 01:44:53,610me Jack, Jack Jack. And I thinkthat is it's somehow it's162101:44:53,610 --> 01:44:56,280critical to survival of socialnetworks.162201:44:56,849 --> 01:44:58,979Dave Jones: Yeah, there's whenthere's no adult in the room.162301:44:59,309 --> 01:45:03,329Yeah. Yes. When there's no adultin the room Yeah, exactly,162401:45:03,329 --> 01:45:05,999buddy, everybody. Everybody goesferal. Yeah,162501:45:06,030 --> 01:45:09,570Adam Curry: yes, exactly. And Ithink that threads suffers from162601:45:09,570 --> 01:45:13,500that and that's not Instagram isnot true. And Tik Tok is not162701:45:13,500 --> 01:45:16,860true. Those are outliers forsome reason. Well,162801:45:16,859 --> 01:45:17,939Dave Jones: they were fairalready.162901:45:18,569 --> 01:45:22,199Adam Curry: They started offFarrell. Right. Yeah, exactly.163001:45:22,229 --> 01:45:25,619Anyway, I've just observation.Yeah, that's163101:45:25,620 --> 01:45:31,230Dave Jones: that's this feel itfeels very true. Say 20 220 2220163201:45:31,230 --> 01:45:34,470vagaro. Doug's from DaveJackson. Thank you, Dave. Do163301:45:34,470 --> 01:45:36,990cast medic he says a greatepisode that left me no choice163401:45:36,990 --> 01:45:40,950but to boost and share. Rightyou didn't know you were forced163501:45:41,520 --> 01:45:44,820to graduate by the IRS 1776.Through fountain he says I still163601:45:44,820 --> 01:45:47,850prefer z. This is justlistening. He said I still163701:45:47,850 --> 01:45:51,330prefer chapters and boost to beseparate. I use the chapters tab163801:45:51,330 --> 01:45:55,230and found unlike a content indextab, in the Activity tab to163901:45:55,230 --> 01:45:58,260check out boosts almost like thecomment section with boosts and164001:45:58,260 --> 01:46:01,470chapters. It gets cluttered.Anyhow, not complaining. And I164101:46:01,470 --> 01:46:04,770guess that's up to apps. Hey,looking forward to AngelList164201:46:04,770 --> 01:46:05,820concert. Yes,164301:46:05,820 --> 01:46:09,990Adam Curry: and I keeppublishing this same way through164401:46:09,990 --> 01:46:14,970the through Spurlock'sinterface. And I know pod verse164501:46:14,970 --> 01:46:19,350has implemented a switch. AndI'm not sure about other apps,164601:46:19,350 --> 01:46:22,380but I'm really only doing it forpeople to integrate the switch.164701:46:22,890 --> 01:46:25,590Because believe me, I get I getI from time to time I get a164801:46:25,590 --> 01:46:30,660really angry email about it. AndI keep saying, you know, that164901:46:30,660 --> 01:46:34,950should be an app theme becauseI'm publishing those as those165001:46:35,640 --> 01:46:38,790TOC equals false so they shouldnot be in your end.