Target’s Dress Code, Aldi Goes All-In With Instacart & Walmart Brings Sparky to ChatGPT | Fast Five

And now she's playing chicken with REI's brand reputation.

You don't get to play hardball with employees without consequences.

Online for Aldi is going to be an expensive distraction.

So you're absolutely giving up the control and long term that matters.

Doordashing it is now part of our lexicon.

The same as I took an Uber,.

People don't want to complete transactions inside of AI.

Hello and welcome to the Omnitalk Retail Fast 5.

This week another guest host host from J recruiting services, Jenna DeFranco joined me to break down the headlines.

And I loved having Jenna on because she brought an ear to the ground perspective on Target's new dress code and also the labor situation at rei.

She had a lot of interesting things to say about that as well.

And another fun fact, she also formerly worked at Aldi, so her perspective on their partnership with Instacart was also really interesting for me to hear firsthand.

Plus, all three of us, Jenna, me and even producer Ella also got into a great discussion at the end of the show about how we all actually want to use LLMs, despite what we're hearing in the media.

All in all, it was a wonderful episode today.

I hope you enjoy it.

And now let's take a quick break to hear from all our wonderful partners who make this podcast possible each and every week.

This episode of The OmniTalk Retail Fast 5 is brought to you by the A and M Consumer and Retail Group.

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To learn more, visit infios.com and Ocampo Capital.

Ocampo Capital is a venture capital firm founded by retail executives with the aim of helping early stage consumer businesses succeed through investment and operational support.

Learn more@ocampo capital.com and finally, Voloc Volock is a proven E grocery technology built by grocers for grocers.

Exactly the type of technology we like here at Omnitalk.

They unite proprietary software with right size automation to make same day delivery profitable.

To Learn more, visit Veloc.com that's V E L O Q.com Jenna DeFranco, the managing director at J Recruiting Services.

How you keeping?

You know, I'm doing excellent, Chris.

I'm excited to be here.

We're getting a glimpse of spring here in Michigan, so we'll see.

I think it's gonna be cold this week, but I'm looking forward to what's to come with that.

Yeah, I got, we got a little tease here in Minneapolis too.

We got like a 70 degree tease on Sunday.

And now, now it's like back in the 30s and 40s, so.

Yeah, but spring is definitely in the air.

But before you get started, you know, tell us a little about a little bit about yourself.

I mean, we've had Jen Han on many times.

I think she's hosted now with us two times and now you're here.

So tell us about yourself because you know from looking at your background, you're also an operator, which we love.

Yeah, absolutely.

I'm an operator at Hart.

So I grew my early career at Aldi.

I spent a little over eight years in two different disciplines there.

First in store operations and then I transitioned into warehouse and distribution leadership and then I moved on to the manufacturing side of things.

I was a Fairlife for a while leading their warehouse and distribution team there.

So with all those leadership roles, it naturally gave me a lot of exposure to that talent management side of things.

So it's a really natural fit for me to come to your recruiting services where I now lead the operations and talent strategy.

That's great.

So.

So Jen, I'm curious because this actually.

And producer, I'll have you come on here too.

This actually caused us some consternation.

You know, we had Jen with two ends, Jenna, which is J E N N A.

Are there other gens or Jenny's at J Recruiting Services.

Are you the only two?

Like, I'm just curious, like how hard is it to keep everything straight in the office?

Honestly, I think if we had another one, it might make it less confusing.

Like, we need a Jenny in our office right now.

But no, it's just two of us with the same name.

And honestly, you won't believe how many people we work with that speak to both of us separately and they don't realize we're different people.

So it's like, well, I already told you this and no, they didn't.

It's a different person.

That literally happened to us, didn't it?

Didn't it?

Ella's like, is Jen, Jenna or what's going on here?

Yeah, I had to text Chris separately and I was like, is this actually the guest?

Am I sending the right invite?

But Jenna, before we jump in, you need to tell Chris about your last names too.

So Ella and I were talking before we started here, and so the funny thing is Jen and I had the same maiden name.

So before we got married, we were.

Both shut the front door crazy.

And.

And I've always been Jen.

Honestly, my friends call me Jen.

And I transitioned into Jenna at work because Jen and I had a very similar career path.

So we worked at Aldi separate times.

We didn't know each other well.

But I came in after her and I pretty much followed in her footsteps and took a lot of her stores.

So everyone thought, oh, Jen Johnson's coming back.

And it was me the whole time.

It's been very confusing my entire career.

Yeah, right?

It's got to be crazy.

So I can understand why you guys go.

Why you go by Jenna and she goes by Jen.

All right, Ella.

The other reason, Ella, I want to bring you in here is because I wanted to actually call you out and, and give you kudos.

Because, Ella, for everyone that that's listening, Ella was out at grocery shop or not.

Grocery shop.

Yeah.

Shop talk.

Thank you, Ella.

Shop talk.

Spring and Ella.

And I was like, ella, you know, and she was too busy doing other stuff.

And so I was like, ella, you know I didn't run into you.

And she's like, she said to me, chris, the reason I didn't run into you is I couldn't find you.

There were too many bald men with beards.

And I was like, that's so great.

So every time I turned around, you guys, there was a bald head.

And I almost ran up being like,.

Boss, hey, what's up?

Not Chris.

Which is such a great, great story.

So I just wanted to, I just want to signal you out and let the audience know that we can be self deprecating and fun here at Omnitok.

All right, Jenna, so let's get right to it.

So, you know, part of the reason we have you all on each and every month from J Recruiting Services is we ask you to help us hand out our monthly Omni Star Award, which I love.

I love doing it because you are far closer to the ground in terms of knowing which retail operators are really making the grade at their organizations and, and who's really leading retail as we look forward.

So for those new to the podcast, maybe you're listening for the first time.

Our Omnistar Award is the award we give out each month in partnership with Corso to recognize the top omnichannel operators out there.

Not the pundits, not the so called experts.

God knows there's a lot of those.

But the real life retail operators making a difference in their organizations.

And for those unfamiliar, Corso's AI copilot coaches retail leaders to optimize store performance at every level, transform retail operations from data overload into data powered.

So, Jenna, without further ado, who is this month's Omni Star?

I love this one.

So this month's Omni star is Christy Maurer, the owner of Maurer's Urban Market.

So Christie's right in the middle of preparing for a grand opening for her new Urban market in Madison, which of course is no small fee on its own.

But at the same time, she was just named the next president of the wga.

And honestly, I think that tells you everything you need to know about her.

She's one of those leaders that just is doing the work and building in the independent space, staying incredibly close to her community and creating a culture where employees actually want to be so.

And that combination is rare.

We talk about values a lot in retail, but Christy's someone who actually is operationalizing them and how she leads her team and how she shows up for customers and she's growing her business.

So for all those reasons, Christie Maurer is our Omni Star this month.

That's really cool.

That's really cool.

It's exciting to see, you know, specifically somebody from a regional grocer win the award this month.

So, so kudos to Chrissy and, and congratulations.

That's fantastic.

All right, well, Jenna, let's get to the headlines.

In this week's Fast5.

We've got news on Aldi launching a brand new nationwide digital experience powered entirely by Instacart.

Rei, facing a potentially damaging labor boycott of its biggest sales event of the year, DoorDash, adding four more apparel retailers to its on demand delivery platform.

Walmart, embedding its Sparky AI assistant directly into ChatGPT.

And Adam Plom joins us for five insightful minutes on what to expect at the upcoming Shop Talk Europe conference in Barcelona, which yours truly will be at in June.

But we begin today with what could be a shift in the right direction from Target.

At least we're going to explore whether that is the case.

Headline number one Target is boosting its employee discount and reportedly rolling out a new dress code for store workers.

According to chain storage.

Beginning April 12, target team members will receive a new 20% discount on all adult owned brand apparel on top of the existing 10% everyday discount and 20% wellness discount.

The dress code update set to go into effect this summer will require store workers to wear sleeved red shirts, solid or patterned, along with blue denim or khaki pants, shorts or skirts.

Previously, the policy was more relaxed about colors and patterns.

Employees who don't want to wear a plain red shirt can opt for a company provided red vest worn over any sleeved shirt.

All team members will receive one free red shirt and a one time 50% discount on a denim purchase.

Jenna, you're new to the program so we figured why not start you off with the A and M, put you on the spot question.

So we're going to baptize you by fire here, Jenna.

And here is the question as Target looks to re establish and reconnect with some of its old mojo.

These are their words, not mine.

Are these dress code standards foundational necessities or lipstick over the problem?

So I like both these moves in theory, but one of the the one thing with this is that execution matters more than intent situations.

So I think the discount increase is smart, especially tied to own brands.

That's margin friendly and it reinforces in internal brand advocacy.

But let's be honest, employees don't get excited about apparel discounts.

It's not something that we're selling in the talent industry and the clients that we have as a big thing, I mean maybe once in a while but, but I think Target set up well for that.

If if their employees already want to wear their product, that's a great selling point.

So I think this dress code piece feels like Target trying to regain some operational control in stores, which feels like the right move for the customer experience and even operationally with leadership.

It's never an easy task to monitor dress code when there's ambiguity, but from an employee standpoint, I think it could feel like a step backwards at times in flexibility and autonomy.

So it certainly is going to depend on how it's rolled out within the stores.

If it's done right, I think the employees will enjoy it, that there's consistency and clarity there.

So biggest risk, if morale is shaky, it lands on a more rules, not more clarity.

But I think it's smart operationally overall.

So if it works for the store leadership and as long as they reinforce the why and not just the Google.

So.

Net.

Net.

You like it?

I think so, yeah.

Yeah, you like it.

But that's interesting.

So from a talent perspective, which is why we have you on the show, you don't, you don't see it as a big differentiating play for like, you know, keeping someone to.

Getting someone to work at Target or keeping them there.

In fact, we're kind of on the negative side of that.

Right?

Yeah, it could be.

I think it could be.

I, I think what we're selling in a talent perspective is, is culture and compensation and benefits and different things like that.

So this is a small piece of that.

It's not something that we wouldn't try to sell if we were.

We were targeting something like this.

But I think that's not a reason why someone goes or stays within a company.

Yeah, yeah.

And it still could potentially, to your point, it still could potentially be a reason.

Somebody leaves, they're like, you know what?

I just don't want to do this anymore.

And, you know, I actually, to that point, I actually, I actually quit.

Whenever I get a store like this, I always create my old friends in, in the field and I'm like, yeah, what's, what's the mood on this?

And overall, it was generally positive, I think, you know, but he, you know, the people I talked to also said, like, you know, but of course, you, you know, it's at the store level.

You have people that are complaining.

Some people are for it, some people are complaining.

You never know what's actually going to happen.

And chances are, usually from my experience, like, that stuff just all washes out at the end and it doesn't really make that big of a difference because this isn't something that's that sizable that you're going to get really upset and probably leave, I wouldn't think.

Jenna, you're shaking your head.

Yeah, that's probably the case.

But I think I agree with you.

Like, and fundamentally, I like, I like both these moves because there are two moves here, right?

I mean, there's the extra discount on apparel.

Like, I'm kind of like, as I'm sitting here, I'm like, yeah, what's taking so long?

Why not you?

The category 100 has the margin, so you should get a better discount on that than you get on, say, food and your everyday essentials.

And especially now when you're asking the employees to dress a certain way for the job, I think that, you know, that's a.

That's a benefit.

And so.

So that's one on the employee discount.

The dress code changes, I think, are also a good step in the right direction.

The one misgiving I have on this, Jen, and I'm curious to get your thoughts on this, is I only think you get one shot at this.

And so I think I.

If it were me, I would have gone back to red and khaki because it was a defining look.

And again, in talking to my former colleagues, they said, like, you know, people are having trouble discerning who the target employees are from the average shoppers.

And I think the red and khaki makes that much more simplified, because even as I was reading the headline, I'm still like, there's a lot of areas of gray here.

Like, what qualifies as blue denim.

There's, like, lots of shades of blue, right?

Like, you know, how do you think about that?

Or, like, the vest over a shirt?

Like, am I really going to pay attention to that?

And so, yeah, I mean, to me, the other thing I'd say, too, is red and khaki.

It was really defining.

It was dorky as hell.

I hated wearing it out to a restaurant whenever I'd, you know, do my store visits and have to go get food somewhere.

But even though it felt.

I felt like a massive dork, especially in an airport, whenever I see somebody red and khaki now in the airport, I'm always like, oh, my God.

But anyway, I took pride in wearing it every single day.

And that pride is important culturally, and that pride needs to come back.

And I worry that Target isn't going to get a second chance at that.

So it's a right move in the right direction, but I don't think it's the first full move that needed to be made.

But, Jenna, what do you think?

You think I'm crazy?

No, I think you're right.

I mean, I think that's more defining.

Like, you said, you could have light denim, you could have dark denim.

You could have.

And where's the line?

Like, they're saying certain, but where is the line?

There's so much ambiguity there in that iconic one of the.

What you mentioned of trying to figure out who's the employees in the store, that really would help define it.

So I agree.

But we'll see how it goes.

Yeah, we'll see how it goes.

At least, at least they're trying to do something.

Trying to do something which seems like it's moving in the right direction.

So give them kudos for that.

And God knows I haven't given Target a lot of kudos in the last few years, have I?

Have I, producer ELLA no, Chris, no, you have not.

No.

So, So I don't.

So I don't, I don't, I don't dish out praise lightly.

All right, headline number two.

All right, headline number two.

This is a fun one for me.

So Aldi, US and Instacart have launched a fully redesigned Aldi website and mobile app powered by Instacart Storefront Pro enterprise commerce platform.

According to an Instacart press release, the redesigned experiences are available now across the United States and deliver personalized product recommendation, enhanced product discovery and expanded meal planning support through Shoppable Recipes.

The platform runs on Instacart Storefront Pro, an enterprise grade solution that unifies a retailer's website, mobile app and in store digital touchpoints into one integrated system combining AI powered product discovery with fulfillment.

Aldi joins more than 380 grocery retailers using the Storefront platform.

Instacart is also Aldi's exclusive fulfillment partner for delivery and curbside pickup, offering speeds as fast as one hour in many markets.

Aldi first partnered with Instacart for Marketplace delivery in 2017 and Instacart began powering fulfillment in 2019.

Chris Aldi is America's fastest growing grocer, but built on a model of simplicity and low cost.

So are you buying or selling Aldi going all in with Instacart as a service, exclusive digital partner as the right term, right long term play for the brand?

Or is Aldi ceding too much control of its destiny to a third party?

Oh, wow, that's a great question.

I can't wait to hear what you think given that you used to work at Aldi.

But you know, overall, Jenna, I think I'm, I think I'm buying, I think I'm buying this.

You know, I, I, but I will say this with a big, big caveat, you know, for those listening, I love this move for Aldi and Aldi alone because Aldi is all about price and that is why it's growing to the extent that it is.

You said it's the fastest growing grocer right now.

That's true.

And so like, and it's because it's about price and the simplicity of the experience.

So online is an.

Online for Aldi is likely going to be an expensive distraction to them and it will never be the core of what Aldi offers its best people, it's customers.

And Aldi's job is to limit distractions and constantly reinvest whatever they can into offering great prices.

That's how they think about their business.

That is what it does best.

So.

So offloading its E commerce front end and delivery and pickup to a third party like Instacart, that takes the headache off the plate, allows them to compete as they always have.

And, but sadly, and this is where the caveat comes in, I don't think that same calculus works for regional grocers because their value tends to come from multiple dimensions.

It's never just about price for them.

And so they have to think about how do they control their destiny more, you know, how they need to think about how they keep more control over their destiny going forward.

And of course the front end is very different from who does your shipping, your picking and packing and all that.

But it's not as easy an equation for them as it is for Aldi.

But Jenna, what do you think?

Yeah, I think so too.

I'm buying this as well, but I agree only because it's Aldi.

They went on two things, simplicity and price.

And they're better than anyone at it.

But building a best in class digital experience in house would completely distract them from that.

So I think this is a stay in your lane move.

Let Instacart handle the complexity and the logistics and the tech and then Aldi can continue focusing on that cost leadership like you said.

But there is a trade off.

They're absolutely giving up the control of the customer data and experience to a degree.

And long term that matters.

So I think short term is a huge win.

I'm only on board, I think, because it's Aldi.

Like you said, not every grocer can do this.

Most don't have Aldi's brand clarity.

And but for Aldi, I think that's a, it's a disciplined strategy and it's the right move.

Yeah, Jen, I'm curious too.

I don't know if you know this or even can share it, but like, do you have any idea of, like, I'm curious, like, what percent of all these businesses actually digitally penetrated too?

Like, I got to think it's less than the average, you know, the average grocer out there, but I don't know.

Yeah, you know, I don't know the details behind it.

It's been a little while since I've been there.

I was there when they started Instacart in 2017, and it was a fun rollout, but, you know, I don't know how much it's grown since then.

Yeah.

Yeah.

But I think that that hypothesis at least seems.

Seems rational to me.

I think.

So basically.

So basically, we're pretty aligned on this show so far.

No, no big, no big disagreements here.

Jedi.

I don't.

I don't know.

We're gonna have to see if we can't.

Can't.

So find some area to.

To get into some debate here.

All right, headline number three.

Although I don't know if we will when I think about these headlines, because these headlines, I imagine, were cut from the same cloth on a lot of these.

All right, headline number three, this one's interesting.

The REI union has voted to authorize a boycott of REI's annual anniversary sale, the co op's biggest revenue event of the year, with the final decision expected by May 1 following REI's decision to declare an impasse in contract negotiations and begin unilaterally cutting benefits and wages.

It's the never good when you have to read a headline like that.

According to retail dive, workers at 11 of REI's roughly 190 stores voted by an overwhelming majority to authorize the boycott after REI declared an impasse in February and began implementing cuts to benefits, starting wages and raises, moves the union has called unilateral and illegal.

The breakdown followed a January quote, last best and final offer from REI that the union rejected unanimously.

REI says the union has yet to make a counter proposal that would restart talks.

REI's anniversary sale, for those that may be not as familiar with it, runs for about 10 days leading up to Memorial Day and represents the retailer's highest traffic highest sales event of the year.

The boycott would apply to both in store and online shopping across all REI locations, not just unionized stores.

It is also important to note, I should say, that the union showed a real muscle in 2025 when it directed 115,000 co op members to vote down all three of REI's board nominees.

A sign that customers may be willing to follow the workers leads again.

Jenna.

REI built its brand on progressive values and community trust, and now it's staring down a boycott at its most important sales event.

Does this boycott have real teeth?

And what does the situation tell you about the limits of values based retail?

When the financial pressures get real, Yeah,.

I think this one has real teeth more than most Boycotts.

I. Yeah, I think REI's customer base is so deeply values driven and probably more than almost any other retailer.

And you, when you build a brand that's built on community and trust and doing the right thing, you don't get to play hardball with employees without consequences.

So the fact that members are already rejecting board nominees last year is a huge signal.

I don't think that's noise.

That's organized, values aligned pushback and values branding works until it gets tested financially.

And I think that's.

This is that test.

So I think the biggest risk for REI is losing credibility, not just revenue.

And credibility is way harder to win back.

And it's not just a labor issue, it's a brand identity crisis.

And those are really the hardest to navigate.

Do you think that, that values based retailing can actually work in the long term or do you think it always will come under financial pressure?

That's a great question.

I think it can work.

I think there's going to be financial pressure at times.

Sure.

If you navigate it correctly and there's a way to do that.

It's going to be hard to navigate this one, but I do think it can work.

I think it, when you're very values based, you get such a loyal customer base and I don't think it's always guaranteed to fall apart.

In this case, they're just going to have to navigate from here.

Yeah, 100% agree.

That's why I asked the question the way that I did, because I wanted to see the nuance to it.

Yeah.

I don't think it's a mutually exclusive thing.

I think you can be a values based retailer and not face the financial pressures.

But the thing you have to keep in mind is why do you exist in the first place?

And that, to me is where, you know, I look at rei's leadership.

I mean, they've just, I, I don't, I, they, to me, they just seem like they're screwing things up royally.

And it doesn't surprise me one bit.

You know, this is where I'm going to get really candid because the c, the current CEO, she flamed out at Athleta really quick.

Like it was, it was a quick tenure and not very successful tenure.

And now, you know, I mean, she's the one in charge now, and now she's playing chicken, essentially with REI's brand reputation.

That's a big, bold move.

And so I'm with you, Jenna.

I just don't, I don't think playing hardball, which is what it seems like they're doing is the right way to go for a company like REI in the long run.

Yeah, agreed.

All right, well, let's bring Adam Plom onto today's program.

Joining us for today's 5 insightful minutes conversation is Adam Plom.

Adam is the vice president and head of content for Shop Talk Europe, and he is here to give us a preview of what to expect at the upcoming Shop Talk Europe conference in Barcelona from June 9 to June 11.

Adam, let's start with this.

What makes Shop Talk Europe so special and unique in the conference circuit?

Fun.

That's a good place to start.

I think what makes Shop Talk Europe special, in my opinion, is, is the fact we're really pan European.

I think a lot of events have really strong sort of, you know, national strongholds, if you like, but we really bring together every major European country across the European ecosystem.

And then I think, you know, what adds to that is what makes Shop Talk as a brand really unique, which is that we bring together the full ecosystem.

So retailers, grocers, brands, startups, tech investors, media analysts, et cetera, that, that full ecosystem.

And within that, within the retailer and brand community, you know, it's the full set of verticals.

So it's, it's, it's apparel to cpg, jewelry to beauty.

You know, everyone's included in that respect.

And so I think bringing together that full ecosystem at the scale that we do, four and a half thousand attendees in June, one in three are going to be C level, is what makes it really unique, that, that quality and quantity.

I guess to simmer it down from a content perspective, I'm biased.

You have head of content, as you said, but, you know, fully editorially.

Driven.

We have 60 sessions, 180 speakers at VP level, plus 65% ish or C level.

So, yeah, I think that's what, what makes us special, in my opinion.

Yeah, yeah.

And you didn't even mention Barcelona in June in that whole thing, too, which is also a true thing.

So.

So, you know, with that said, I think that's a good segue here.

So, like, what are you most excited about?

Like, if you had to pinpoint one thing about this year's conference, what are you most excited about?

Funny, because I think if you'd asked me this two weeks ago, my answer would have been different.

But off the back of Shop Talk Spring in Las Vegas last week, we had our own roadshow event in Amsterdam last week as well.

I think it's the.

There's two things for me.

One, it's kind of the moment in time, it feels like it feels more needed than ever, I think, for the industry.

I know it's a bit of a cliche.

Ben Miller called this out himself on the Key Takeaways podcast about, you know, unprecedented, unprecedented rate of change.

We always talk about that, but it really feels like that at the moment.

Like last year's show was just on the cusp of tariffs, but this year already we've had, you know, we've had war, we've had trade disruptions, there's technological advancements like we've never seen before.

And so it feels needed and timely for the industry.

But I think above all else, there seems to be a change in tone in conversation.

And I think this was really felt last week in Las Vegas, which is that everyone's open to sharing more than they've ever been willing to share.

I think in a way that's kind of, here's what we're trying when it comes to AI or otherwise.

Here's what's worked, here's what hasn't.

And we'd love to talk about the future.

We kind of can't because we don't really know what it's going to look like.

So I think it's always an abstract excitement for me.

I'm intrigued to see, like, how that plays out in Europe, especially when there's this kind of undertone in Europe at the moment.

And it's kind of funny for me as a Brit to say this on a podcast with kind of a largely American audience, but there is this kind of united European sentiment at the moment around in Europe for growth, as a retailer, for innovation, for tech.

And like, how does that play out?

And we hear that a lot in one to one conversations.

But will people say that on stage, will they say it in a larger group setting that there's this kind of European sovereignty conversation taking place, which is, which is really quite interesting.

Right, right.

So I'm curious that, like, how do you, I mean, your head of content for the, for the conference, like, how do you take all of that and then, you know, go about thinking about and designing the overall content plan for the show?

Like, take us through that, Adam.

Yeah, absolutely.

So it's not easy, I would say.

So we, the moment the show finishes in 25, we then start researching for 26.

We spend the summer having research calls with people who are at the show, people who weren't.

We obviously do our own desktop research and we build our kind of editorial view of what's important for the industry for the year ahead, I would say that's even harder than ever because us writing a program in September is quite funny because come June, the next year, you know, a lot's changed, but we still have to finesse it and change it and create a program that we stand by editorially.

And I think what's interesting is that what we build in some form in the summer into September the year before is still resembled by the time we get to June the following year, because we don't have that pressure of pay to play content and other things that play at Shop Talk.

But I think it has forced us to do a few different things this year.

So Shop Talk Europe, for the first time we have a track dedicated to AI, which is kind of, you know, I think expected in the current era.

But we, we felt that was necessary.

And we also have a track, a stage dedicated to media and marketing, so retail media, social commerce, disruptions in discovery, you know, AI driven content and creative and things like that.

And so we had to kind of get those pillars right because I think that's what the audience are really, really looking for.

But then we've had to be really careful.

I think the European audience in particular have been really keen to impress upon us that they don't want to hear just AI.

They want to hear AI in the right way, but also not at the cost of in store content and kind of that emotional connection to consumers type of conversation.

Not with skipping the data foundation conversation without neglecting the human conversation, the balance around, yes, AI, but how does that happen?

How do you build co intelligence with humans internally and externally?

So this year's felt really interesting because there's really clear themes emerging, but also that sort of undertone of yes, but we want that, but we also want it in the right way and not at the cost of other things.

So that's kind of what we've set out to achieve this year.

And you know, I guess it's not for me to decide if we've done it properly, but it feels in a good place right now, especially off the back of Las Vegas last week again, where I guess the sentiment feels about right to what we're aiming for in June.

So, Adam, that those are really good points.

It makes me really excited for the conference.

So I want to get you out on this because you mentioned it, AI, you know, and AI is, I think, the root of what you're, what you've been talking about, right?

It's why, it's why people are looking for answers.

It's why, you know, why things are changing in terms of what you're excited about.

You know, when you, if I ask you today versus last month and so, so dig into that for me before I let you go.

Like when you, when we say AI, what will we and won't we be discussing at Shop Talk Europe around AI?

Yeah, it's really interesting.

I think what won't we be discussing is, is a really interesting point.

I think just to step back briefly.

Our overall event theme for this year in Barcelona is, is actually where AI and human ingenuity meet or take center stage is kind of how we're framing it.

And the reason for that again is through that research last summer where the, you know, our community have told us, yes, AI, we need to be hearing about it, in some cases we need to be hearing about it to even justify coming to an event right now, but not at the cost of all of the other stuff.

And so what that means for us is that we're, we're keeping it sort of confined to that, that one stage, that one track and we're approaching it in a few different ways.

First of all, we're gentic, you know, that's top of the list for everybody.

So in particular agentic commerce.

I would say agentic AI is definitely relevant and coming up and we'll cover that.

But agentic commerce is front of mind for everybody.

And so yeah, we've got a couple of sessions dedicated to that from a what's here, what's real, what's happening now conversation with maybe a nod to the future, but really what is this world looking like?

And that's from a retailer and brand perspective, but also a platform perspective.

And then I guess building on that, there's another session which is focused on how retailers and brands show up in the sort of era of, let's call it AI search in anticipation of AI commerce.

So you know, a lot of retailers and brands are talking to us about how they are focused on their product data or how they're focusing on increased PR and communications or more influencer campaigns, anything really to make sure that they appear regularly and highly on LLM based searches.

So we're, we're really digging to that.

And then I think, you know, beyond that, the overarching thing for us is, is use cases.

And so whether it's traditional AI, generative AI, agentic AI and whether it's at the point of cx, whether it's at the point of E commerce, marketing operations, supply chain, any of those places, anything we cover from there on is things that Retailers and brands have done or are doing and what the results have been from that and in some cases maybe what's not worked as well.

I think people are always keen to hear about that, but it's, it's really, really case study and use case driven.

But again, back to my other point, we, we're also making sure that we're almost not, not jumping the gun somewhat.

So there's a session on, you know, sort of data readiness for AI.

So, you know, for some that in the audience are not as a mature a business, you know, how do you make sure your data is ready to deliver value from AI projects?

You know, the whole garbage in, garbage out type of conversation which has been around for a long time but feels even more pertinent right now.

And then, and then the human side.

Yeah, we're looking at kind of the workforce of the future, if you like, which is how do you bring in AI capabilities internally and what does that mean for the human workforce?

And in some cases that may mean that some roles disappear or change beyond recognition.

It may mean that some roles are massively disrupted or some roles emerge that didn't previously exist.

But we're really trying to, we're trying to have a really well rounded conversation about it rather than just what might the future of AI and retail look like?

Because I think people have heard a lot of that and that's not what they're going to get the value from this year, in my opinion.

Yeah, and I think that's what you guys do best too, is you try to keep it real with what is, what is real.

Tangible takeaways that the conference goers can take back to their jobs and, and make themselves better.

That's what you guys do so well from a content perspective.

Well, thank you, Adam.

That was great stuff and I can't personally, I can't wait to see you in Barcelona.

Likewise, looking forward to it.

See you then.

All right, leading into headline number four, four apparel retailers, Urban Outfitter, Steve Madden, Dolce Vita, a Steve Madden brand, and rally house are set to launch on DoorDash.

According to Chain Storage, the four brands are expected to go live on DoorDash during spring of 2026, significantly expanding the platform's apparel selection and giving customers access to fashion and fan gear via on demand delivery.

The announcements come shortly after Footlocker.

Footlocker launched on DoorDash in March of 2026.

More than 30% of DoorDash's monthly active US users are already shopping across grocery and retail categories on the platform, which could be a signal of a genuine behavioral shift underway beyond restaurant delivery on the platform.

Chris, is apparel on apparel on DoorDash a real durable retail channel for apparel brands or is it more of a novelty?

That sounds great in a press release.

Oh, wow, yeah, great question.

Let me think about that for a sec.

I mean, I think, I think it most definitely is a real durable retail channel.

And I mean it's kind of, I mean, in some ways it seems self evident in the number you just quoted to me because if that number is real, that 30% of DoorDash users are cross shopping already.

Now granted, it's like what are they cross shopping for?

Is what I'd want to know more about.

But you know, that, that tells me that there's potentially a there there.

But, you know, you know, but even when I think about that and I step back, you know, I've talked on this show numerous, numerous times about how the Dash pass particularly is the number one membership I would want to give up the least.

I'd give up prime before that.

I'd give up Walmart plus before it.

And so I think that shows you just how powerful doordash can be in terms of creating kind of the, the next gen marketplace across many categories.

And the other point I'll mention is Sarah Engel of January Digital.

When I interviewed her on stage at Shop Talk last week, she had a really good point.

She said like, you know, she needed some, I think she, I think she actually needed maybe some piece of clothing.

I can't remember.

So, but she said like I doordashed it.

And I was like, yeah, you're right.

Like that's, that's a really interesting phenomenon that's starting to happen.

Is that doordashing?

It is now part of our lexicon.

The same as like I took an Uber, you know, and I don't, I don't, I don't even say that about Amazon.

I don't say I Amazon did or I primed it, you know, but I do say that about doordash.

And so, so that tells me that, you know, this platform can be much more powerful than we think in the long run.

So I wouldn't discount this, this headline at all.

Everyone but Jenna, what do you think?

Do you use doordash?

What?

To what degree do you use doordash?

And you know, how do you think about it?

Yeah, I'm a big doordash user for sure.

I have little kids at home.

I'm delivering everything.

That's, that's groceries, that's food.

I'm Delivering everything.

So doordash is a big, big component in our house.

Wow.

Okay, So I think we, I think you're right.

We're gonna be on the same page with a lot of these headlines.

So I have to agree.

I think, I don't think people need apparel in an hour, but behavior shifting convenience is winning in every category and doordash already owns that relationship.

So that stat, like you said about cross shopping is the key.

And maybe they're cross shopping other industries, but once consumers are in the ecosystem, adding categories is easy.

So I don't think this is about replacing traditional E commerce.

It's about capturing incremental demand.

I would certainly be one to get a last minute outfit or game day gear or something like that.

So I don't think it's going to be a primary channel, but it's absolutely, I think a meaningful secondary channel and brands that ignore it are going to miss easy wins.

Yeah, that, that's the, the game day thing that they talked about in the headline in the story too.

That's really interesting too.

So like you're a Spartan fan, right?

You're a Michigan Stater too?

Jen.

Jen.

Jen.

Jen's also Michigan Stater from Jay Recruiting.

So like, could you see the use case?

Because I think I could where like, okay, I'm, it's game day, you know.

Well, unfortunately there isn't a game for the Spartans this week.

Not to, not to, you know, but I kind of had to.

But let's say there was a game.

I could see you like going on doordash to get food for the party that you're throwing the game watching party and then being like.

And then they're going to serve up an ad for Michigan State apparel that you can have delivered to your house very quickly.

Like that's a use case you could see, right?

Absolutely.

I even think about for my kids, we're going out tailgating and I'm like, oh no, all of their sparty outfits don't fit anymore.

I could easily.

It's a quick thing, so.

Right, right.

Yes, of course.

No one would really want to put their kids in sporty gear, but once you get past that, anything's on the table.

Right?

But yeah, I mean that's, that's what they're going for here, right, Jenna?

Yeah.

So yeah.

So it's really, it's really, it's, it's actually really interesting like how lockstep we are on these headlines.

All right, headline number five.

Walmart has debuted an in store app experience inside ChatGPT backed by its Sparky commerce agent.

According to Retail Dive, the revamped walmart experience inside ChatGPT keeps the entire transaction on Walmart's own infrastructure.

Users log into their Walmart account, their baskets sync across the Walmart app, website and chatgpt and checkout happens through Walmart, not through OpenAI.

That's the key point here.

The move also follows a frank admission from Walmart's EVP Daniel Danker, that OpenAI's instant checkout was, quote, unsatisfying.

That's a big omission because conversion rates for products sold directly inside the chatbot were running three times lower than for products that required click out to Walmart's own site.

Oh boy.

Walmart, it should be noted, had made approximately 200,000 products available inside Chat GPT via instant checkout since November.

But the feature struggled with accuracy because product availability, estimated delivery times and shipping costs were often wrong because OpenAI was scraping Walmart's site rather than connecting to live inventory data.

Surprisingly lot here folks.

Surprisingly, OpenAI said it is also ending instant checkout in its current form.

Not surprised.

And expanding its agentic commerce protocol, AKA the ACP that everyone keeps talking about, to focus on product discovery while giving merchants full control over their own checkout experience.

Wow, that is a big shift to what we had been talking about previously on old shows.

All right Jenna, Walmart pretty much just admitted that conversion rates inside its AI inside AI chatbots like OpenAI are three times lower than when people go to their own site.

So.

But do you as a user find any value in a self contained GPT experience?

And producer Ella, get ready too because I wanted to bring you in on this one as well.

But Jenna, what do you think first?

Yeah, I I think this actually validates what a lot of us suspected, at least I have is is people don't necessarily want to complete transactions inside of AI and I'm one of those.

Discovery yes, checkout not really.

And a three times lower conversion rate is pretty telling.

I think from a user perspective I don't see the huge advantage if I'm ready to buy.

I trust the retailer's app and site more anyways and it feels like an extra step versus a better experience.

So I think what this really signals is we're still very early in agentic commerce.

This is more about search evolution than transaction evolution, but I think it's smart for Walmart to test and learn.

I think the real opportunity is owning the experience end to end and really it's don't outsource the last mile of consumer version.

Yeah, I agree with you this one.

This whole world and landscape is just really, it's, it's confounding to me in terms of how it's starting to play out, because I think it, there's a number.

I agree with everything you said and the things that I thought about when I read this article is number one, which I think is important to say.

The world of truly agentic commerce, where you're having an agent doing the shopping for you, is really far out.

Like, we can't even get checkout right, you know, right now, folks.

So and so that tells me that really what we're talking about right now in the near term is we're looking at a shift in how search commerce is done.

Because I think that's what you're saying, Jenna, right?

Like, yeah, I want to use chat GPT to search for products, but then I want it to land me on the Walmart site because that's where I'm going to have confidence and, you know, I'll just check out through them.

The second thing it tells me, though, is I still have a lot of questions, as I did when Target did the same thing back in the holidays of putting the, if putting the app inside ChatGPT T is the right move because, Jenna, like you said, it's disjointed.

If I want to ask the LLM to take me to Walmart, can I just as easily open the Walmart app on my phone and use Sparking within it?

So I don't really get the added value and that would probably just convert higher because I'm already intending to go to that Walmart app to begin with.

So.

So I don't really get that unless it, you know, unless it can like filter everything out for me against Walmart and everyone else.

If I'm having to contain myself in the Walmart experience, that doesn't seem like it provides any utility to me, again, you know, provided what the LLMs are supposed to do.

So I don't.

The problem I have with this is I don't get what the incentive is other than just dipping your toes in the water.

And I don't really see the value of the experimentation to dip your toes in the water.

And so I would just, I would instead just probably focus on getting ready for the ACP and its improvements that happen once that comes about.

But I, I don't know.

Ella, bring you back in here, Jenna, I'm curious, like, how, how do you guys, how are you actually using chat GPT to shop, Ella?

Yeah, well, a couple things here.

I feel like I keep hearing retailers implementing their sites, going directly into ChatGPT, but I personally have still yet to see it.

First of all, like, I don't know where hard to find.

I know Target when that was a big headline, I could not find it to save my life.

And I feel like going back to Shop Talk.

Chris.

There was a lot of talk about invisible AI and how the best rollout might just be making the user experience within your own site better because that's what people want.

I mean, I agree, Jenna.

We're using ChatGPT for discovery and inspiration and trying to find, oh, I can compare this to this, and why would I buy this?

And then ultimately going back to the site and making that final decision.

So I completely agree with both of you.

Yeah.

And that's what I've always said on the show.

I've always said, like, I would be focusing on bolstering natural language church on my own site before anything for that reason.

I think that's right, Ella.

I think we're getting to the answers here, you know, over the, over the past few months.

Jenna, any final thoughts here before we go to the lightning round?

Yeah, I mean, you mentioned, like, what's the point of it?

I guess I could say there's, there's maybe something to early adoption for a company like Walmart.

Sure.

And in testing the waters a little bit.

Uh, but again, I think my bottom line is, is I trust the website and I, I don't know that I need it to be completely integrated that way.

Yeah, right.

Yeah.

If I want to go to Walmart, I'll just go to Walmart.

Yeah, that's my, that's.

That's my.

That's.

That's how I look at this story.

All right, well, let's head to the right lightning round, Jenna.

I'm going to go back to the Michigan State.

So with your boss's beloved Michigan State Spartans out of the tourney and your beloved Michigan State sponsor, the attorney, on whom would you place your money to take this year's March Madness tournament?

Yeah, well, I have to, I have to.

A little plug here about go green because it's definitely my beloved Spartans as well.

But as much as I hate to admit it, I never put MSU in my top picks because then I'm not double disappointed.

So they're never in my top.

So that didn't shoot my bracket that way.

But I'm from Michigan, so a lot of people say that if it's not msu.

It might as well be a U of M. But I'm not that person.

I'm a sparty through and through, so it feels right for Michigan.

See, Yukon always feels dangerous in March.

But I have to go with Illinois.

I mentioned my bracket is pretty shot, but in most areas.

But I did have Illinois winning it from day one, so I'm gonna stick with my gut.

It's gonna be Illinois.

Wow.

You picked Illinois to win.

Wow.

No Zona, huh?

No, no.

My home state.

No love for Zona.

Oh, my God.

Sorry.

No love.

All right, okay.

We'll see.

We'll see how it goes.

I'm pulled for the Wildcats this year.

Yeah.

All right, question number two for Chris.

I'm sticking with the March Madness.

Where does the tournament rank for you in all sporting events?

Are you more of a football guy, PGA tournament follower, or is this your moment?

Wow.

That's a really, really good question.

I. I actually am a big basketball guy.

So, like, if.

If I think about the answer to that question, I think it's.

It's probably March Madness number one followed very, very closely.

Like, for me, it's like 1A 1B with the NBA final, and it probably depends on, like, who's playing it to actually determine which one actually takes the top spot.

You know, like, depending, you know, like, last year was Oklahoma City and Indiana, and, like, I kind of watched it, but, like, I didn't care that much, you know, versus, like, say, when Golden State's in it, then I'm locked in on it.

But.

But the other thing I'd say, too, is, like, you have to think about the World cup too.

But that's only four years.

So I'd probably put the World cup as, like, the thing that I get most excited about now, which is weird to say, but I'm not a soccer guy.

I just love the World Cup.

But.

But, yeah.

So I'd say March madness in the NBA Finals.

All right.

Jeopardy.

Is celebrating its 62nd birthday.

Wow.

By offering $6,200 in a shot on the show.

For a fan who can ace the test, they're calling it Jepar Day.

I bet.

Produce.

Oh, loves that one.

Jenna, where does Jeopardy.

Rank in your all time game show rankings?

Please remember to phrase your answer in the form of a question.

Okay.

What is slightly overrated but still a classic?

I respect it more than I enjoy it.

I. I grew up watching Wheel of Fortune with my dad, and that's like a memory of mine.

And Jeopardy.

Came on right after, so.

But typically, I didn't make it through jeopardy.

If I'm gonna be honest.

Um, I think it's smart, it's iconic, and it's not exactly entertaining in the same way as others, in my opinion.

But it is also one of the game shows that have stayed consistent over the years without feeling outdated.

So I guess I'm going to rank it just outside my top three.

I think it's more of a must respect than a must watch for me though.

Okay.

Okay.

So is Wheel of Fortune your number one?

Oh, I don't know how I would rank all these.

Yeah, I think so because it's such a core memory of mine.

Like my dad and I always watched it.

My grandpa and I always watched it.

So I think.

So those are the two that always come to mind for me.

Like you say game shows, it's like those two and then maybe press your luck from the 80s, which I just watched this crazy like YouTube clip on the guy that like cheated press your luck and won like hundreds of thousand dollars.

He was like a notorious scammer.

But anyway, yeah, friends of Omnitot, go, go find that, that story.

It's pretty, pretty crazy.

The guy, that's the guy that cheated press your luck.

Okay, Chris, spring break is upon us.

If you had to make a last minute trip, no planning, no logistics, what's your destination and are you going to be relaxing or going full activity mode?

Oh, man.

You know, it's funny.

Very apropos question.

So I used to think it was Hawaii until I went there amid 100 year storms a couple weeks ago and didn't see the sun at all.

So.

And it's really far to get to.

So I think for spring break, I don't, I don't, I don't know that I do Hawaii again, especially at that time of year.

So.

But I think if I had the kids, actually the place I want to go is D.C. i think D.C. with the kids when they're like 10, 12 years old is like perfect.

But as an adult, if I was having a spring break as an adult, this is going to surprise everybody.

I think I'd say London.

I just love London.

London is so cool.

And I get to go out there for the retail technology show in a couple weeks at the end of April too.

So I'm pretty pumped about that.

But what would yours be, Jenna?

Wow.

Well, last minute trip to London, that's a big one.

Mine's really, it's a go to for me all the time.

So I'd have to pick something that I'm used To, I think, for last minute, because I need a little bit of, like, if I'm not planning it, I need to know what I'm doing.

So Anna Maria island, or maybe if it's summer, Northern Michigan, because I grew up there, but I think Anna Maria island, if it's like a spring break, because that's just.

It's my favorite place in the world, so.

Nice.

Nice, nice.

There's lots of songs about northern Michigan.

All right.

Hello.

Let's.

Right.

All right.

Produce.

Ella, come on in.

Which headline won this show for you this week?

I don't have any idea.

This one.

Man.

I'm gonna get this one wrong.

I know it.

I'm gonna go with rei.

I missed it.

I knew I missed it.

Yep, yep.

Streak is over.

The king is dead.

The winner is Doordash.

Entering a Paris shoot.

This feels like the ultimate frictionless experience, and I'm just shocked that we're this point where we can deliver clothes.

That is so wild.

I'm thinking about my.

My brain goes to when I am at, let's say, a work conference and I spill on my pants.

How amazing it would be to order a pair of pants and not be embarrassed the rest of the day.

I think this is really interesting to see how this is going to play out.

I think about how Doordash itself seemed crazy Right when it came out.

Right.

And same with Uber.

And to now know that that is a universal experience that everyone just does automatically, and it's something that we didn't know we need, but we needed.

I kind of think this might be in that same realm.

Okay, so, Ella, so I picked up a couple things there.

One, did you have an accident at a recent conference where you spilled on yourself?

I did not, but that's one of my biggest fears.

You did not.

You're so.

You're just.

You're just preparing for the day when you eventually do that.

Absolutely.

So you could see the use case arising in which one would need to doordash themselves a new pair of pants.

Very quickly, especially for someone as clumsy and just random as me.

That would happen to me.

Yes.

That is so.

I've had that happen to me before.

So I could absolutely see the use case.

Yeah.

Yeah.

It happens to me every day.

I just choose to ignore it.

I'm notorious for spilling coffee on everything.

Like, literally everything.

I just.

I spill a coffee cup every week.

All right, well, that was a fun show, Jenna.

Thanks for being with us.

It was great to have you.

And happy birthday today to Barry Sonnefeld, Asa Butterfield and to the woman who played Robbie Benson's love interest in One on One Another Basketball Reference, which is the greatest basketball movie filmed in the 1970s.

For those that may be unfamiliar, check.

Check it out the wonderful Annetto tool.

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Please remember to like and leave us a review wherever you happen to listen to your podcast or on YouTube.

You can follow us today by simply going to YouTube.com Amitalk Detail Jenna, if people want to get in touch with you with Jen at the J Recruiting Services, what's the best way for them to do that?

Yeah, we're all really active on LinkedIn, so Jenna DeFranco on LinkedIn is great.

Our J Recruiting Services page also has a lot of valuable information on it, so LinkedIn is probably the best bet.

All right, well, there you have it folks.

So until next week, stay well.

And on behalf of all of us at Omnitok, on behalf of me, Jenna producer Ella, as always, be careful out there.