Retail Media As A Reinvestment Tool with Sam's Club VP Harvey Ma | Live at Shoptalk 2025

Welcome back, everybody.

This is Omnitalk Retail.

I'm Anne Mazinga.

And I'm Chris Walton.

And we are coming to you day two from Shop Talk 2025.

We're right outside the Meta headquarters, Surf B, right across from the speaker lounge.

So come swing by and say hello to us if you are at Shop Talk today.

And we would like to give a quick thank you before we get started to Meta, where you can unlock seamless customer centric experience experiences with omnichannel ads for making all of our coverage from here today possible.

All right, let's get to the task at hand.

We would like to introduce our guest here, standing between Chris and I is Sam's club vice president and general manager of Retail Media, Harvey Ma.

Harvey, welcome.

I love doing this.

I love you both.

I love you.

Like, when this request came through, I'm like, oh, my gosh.

Absolutely.

Yes, absolutely.

I love it.

It's like a reunion.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

Flattery will get you everywhere.

That's right.

Right.

Well, well, Harvey, we know you pretty well.

I mean, you, you and I go way back.

Really, really long time back.

Probably as long as we've interviewed anyone on this show.

But for those that maybe don't know you, tell them about your background and also about your current role.

Yeah, maybe I'll start way back.

I actually started my career as a mechanical engineer and stumbled upon retail as one does a dealer in Minneapolis where we all met each other.

Target, where I started on our negotiations business.

And then I was buying for a long time, which is great because I see a lot of those folks here.

I actually, I bought salty snacks and I gained 35 pounds in that job.

It was all water weight, though.

It was getting to be a problem, like a really bad problem.

And then was asked to go do this digital marketing thing.

Yeah, right before retail media was even a thing.

And that was really fun.

Fast forward, I went from Target to Nielsen, and then I went from Niel Nielsen to Albertsons Media Collective.

And then now most recently at Sam's Club, where we're building our retail media network.

And it is quite sophisticated.

I'm happy to share that with you today.

Well, it's no surprise that that's a quite large topic at Shop Talk Retail Media.

It's a great source of revenue for a lot of retailers.

So I'm curious, like, let's dive in a little bit.

I want to talk about first, like, what technologies, what products, processes have you put in place to really make sure that things run smoothly at Sam's Club and that retail media is something that the organization can rely on time and time again.

Let's start with the first comment, which is, yes, it's a very high revenue generating platform for Sam's Club.

But the uniqueness about Sam's Club is that every single dollar that I generate for this organization, we invest back into our associates.

Oh, wow.

Wages, club remodels, new club openings.

And so this is not a profit center for us in the traditional sense, which Chris Nicholas, who I know you've had on here before, this is a very different stepwise change for us.

We talk about this being value added for a brand and a supplier and for our members, we're member centric.

That's paramount.

So if this becomes just a tax or becomes a profit center, then we haven't done our jobs right.

And we feel very passionately that every single dollar doesn't go into our pocket.

It actually goes to make member experience better.

Because when that happens, we all grow.

Well said.

So I'll start with that said.

Yeah, that's a good way to start.

Yeah.

So it's.

So you're thinking of it like it's a, it's an infusion of capital really at the end of the day to, to make your stores better, to make your employees lives better, and to make your customer experiences better too.

And it's all intertwined.

Happy associates make for a happier experience inside the club.

Happier experience in the club mean people want to spend more money.

It's good for supplier, it's good for us.

And so again, it's not the traditional profit center and we believe very.

I've not heard anyone else talk about it like this.

Well, and Harvey, you've had some experience, you don't have to name names or anything, but where does that, that money flow into?

Like what other buckets are people who are using their retail media revenue, where.

Are they allocating that dirty little secret profit margin?

I mean, they're all good things.

Right.

I don't want to maybe disclaim something that's.

That we're not all retail media.

Yeah.

I mean, we should all generate profit, all of it.

But where you put the profit though, is really important.

And that's the differentiation between what a supplier would have as a perceived tax or like a must pay.

And so I think that's the running joke that we all have in these conferences is how fast reach home media is growing.

I would argue if you ask any chief marketing officer or any chief digital officer or chief tech officer that has that money they're probably saying it's actually the same bucket of money that I have.

It's just now split now in a different direction.

Right.

So great for folks in retail media, I think what we're trying to do is how has it become great for a Chief Digital officer or a Chief Marketing officer if we're reinvesting it back into the clubs to actually make member experience better?

Hopefully what that means is that we sell more things.

Right.

And after all, we all want to sell more things.

Right.

And also Harvey too.

Like, how do you grow the actual retail media pie to the end that you're talking about, as opposed to just the switching of the trade spend into a different bucket as well?

Right.

That's the unlock here that allows the capital to flow back through the organization.

That's right.

And if I go back to answer the question now on technology, I actually have a proof point in terms of how we're building this debt differently.

Okay.

So just a few weeks ago, we rehauled our entire search platform and we're in house now.

And here's the reason why I did that.

In the traditional search model, highest bidder wins.

Yes.

That is an auction based.

Not great.

Just talked about that on our podcast this morning.

Yeah, it's like, yeah, I have other words for it too.

But you go.

So hours now we unveiled our brand new in house search platform.

Highest bidder doesn't win because we run it through a different relevancy layer now.

And we make sure that from a contextual and a personalization standpoint, members see what they want to see and we don't serve things that are perceived as disruptive or junk.

Now, what that means is that the revenue potential for me is not nearly as high.

But I'll tell you what, I think member experience is way better.

And so that's, I think, proof in terms of what we're doing from a technology standpoint that backs up the ethos of what I talked about.

Have you had to change metrics then and like how your organization thinks about what success looks like?

Because if it's not dollars coming in, I imagine that that was kind of like a cultural shift.

Is that the case?

It's a cultural shift not just for our own companies, but also for our suppliers as well.

So getting folks hooked on this drug, which is roas, and getting them unhooked by saying, what would you actually rather see?

Do you want to see new member conversion?

Do you want to see new basket growth?

We've had to change a lot of the metrics now.

Again, I think done well, you see mutual growth.

Right.

But I know from talking to many Sam's Club executives on this podcast at these conferences, like Net Promoter, Score is a big thing for you guys.

Huge deal.

You want to know that your customer is liking what you do.

And I want to salute you guys too, because I joked about it, talking about it this morning.

But that is merchandising.

You don't just merchandise to the best bidder because anyone will pay for space, anyone will pay for shelves the same in store.

And you're just saying, like, no, you have to be cognizant of why you're doing what you're doing to give your customer the products that they want at the right time.

Yeah.

There was a question that was asked on the panel yesterday with a few different retailer executives of what is your definition?

How are you defining commerce media?

There were some really great technical answers, and mine was shopping.

I mean, it's kind of just that, but it doesn't have to be overly technical.

And you've talked to Greg Pulsifer, who's my best friend at Sam's Club.

You know, we don't, we don't look at it being as ads or organically served site experiences done really, really well.

A member shouldn't be able to tell what those two things are.

And so that's really part of our core ethos.

And hopefully when you look at the site, it looks like that, it feels like that.

Right, right.

Okay.

Well, so I wrote down this one question I want to ask you.

I want to make sure I wrote it down because I want to make sure I ask it to you in the right way.

So I'm curious, how has technology helped the brands and retailers in general, from an industry point of view, target retail media content?

And what kind of results are you seeing from them?

Doing so I've got a brag on our scan and go technology.

Good.

I was hoping you would.

I mean, if you talk about immigration in store retail media, which is a hot topic even here in this conference, I think what a lot of people are talking about is in store screens.

Now, we have a lot of those.

In fact, we've got screens everywhere at Sam's Club, membership desk, pharmacy desk, cafe, TV wall.

But scan and go really allows us to, at the very point of sale and as customers are shopping and members are browsing, we're serving you content.

And I want to make that clear.

It's content.

It's not just ads.

Right.

That help make the shopping journey easier and better.

And what that does is that.

Let's just say you're buying a beverage, you want to pair it with a snack.

That app, it will literally tell you where the snack is, where it's located, and you can add it right to your cart.

Now, from a frictionless experience standpoint, I don't know if there's anything that's targeted better than that right at the point of sale, which is the holy grail of media.

But I think from a result standpoint, here's a stat that I can release.

So we just did a case study.

Yeah.

71% incremental reach on Scan and Go display ads.

Which means that folks that are already in the app and using the app, 71% of them are engaging with this display unit.

Well, it makes sense.

Yeah.

Because it's a highly personalized app.

And the other point in point, important point that we know from talking, it's one in three, right?

One in three.

Sam's Club shoppers use scanner.

And growing.

And growing.

Right.

So it makes 100% sense.

And I'll say it.

Cause you probably won't.

But like, from a competitive perspective, that usage rate is almost untouchable in your industry.

So, yes, you guys are onto something on the retail media side.

I'm just gonna put it out there.

You said it, not me.

Well, Harvey, I'm curious.

You know, as you're.

As you're continuing to build momentum behind the Scan and Go app, you're continuing to serve up these experiences in new and exciting and I'd argue more relevant ways.

What.

What kind of things are you looking for in the partners then that you bring on?

Like what.

What do you.

What kind of qualities, what kind of capabilities as you're kind of adding people into the Sam's Club umbrella?

I ask all my partners three really easy questions, which actually our engineering and product teams are probably tired of hearing me say.

And it's three questions.

Is it good for our member?

Number one, can we do it well?

Number two, and can we make money on it?

Number three, if any of those three questions are maybe or no, we don't pursue the idea.

But it's a really simple framework to make sure that we keep the priorities right.

And I think from a partnership standpoint, I talked about it yesterday, they should understand what the ethos is of the retailer versus just using retail media for the same things they use it for across the board.

Right.

Search is not the same thing at Sam's or at any warehouse model as it is for drug or grocery or travel or a fitness club.

And so they should think about that differently.

Now, if you're going to go through this exercise of what we call standardization, then how do you standardize roas on search from a fitness club and a warehouse club?

And so that's where I think it's gotta be a really simple framework.

Capture the ethos of the retailer and how your brand fits within that.

And then those three simple questions.

Is it good for your member or customer?

Can we do it well?

Yeah.

And can we make money on it?

Yeah.

Oh, go ahead.

I was gonna say it's gotta be so unique, especially for Sam's Club, too.

And the way the relationship and connection that you have with your members, too, versus a mass retailer that's just trying to talk to everybody, too.

And we take that responsibility, and it is a responsibility so seriously, you know, within the Sam's Club strategy, diamond trust is one of the pillars of the diamond.

How do we get in the diamond?

Well, we can get you a diamond.

We sell diamonds.

I know you do.

Probably the best value you can find in the market.

But if you talk about trust, we take it so seriously because members are paying us for the privilege to shop within Sam's Club.

And so for me, I take the ADS experiences equally seriously.

How bad would it be to pay for this membership fee?

And the experience be awful.

So we take it very, very seriously.

Man, I can picture you having that conversation across the table.

Having been in those meetings with you in the past, I could see you doing that in my head as you're talking about it.

That's great.

All right, so maybe from a Sam's Club point of view, or even from an industry point of view, I want to ask you as well, what.

What changes are still coming in the retail media landscape?

Wow.

So many.

There's.

And that's.

The retail media term has become so blanketed now.

It has.

I think there's a lot of things happening from a people, process and technology standpoint.

I'm gonna try my best not to use the words AI, because that's actually changing a lot of different things.

AIs making this much more efficient and fast.

And I actually think if I can just make a plug on the AI piece of it, it does give retailers the ability to now keep on pace with some of the larger ones, even their most nascent phases.

So that's all changing rapidly.

Y But I do think at the core of it, customers and members will tell us what retail media should look like for them in the future.

Because I think the most curious thing I've seen At this show is what's old is new again.

Like the amount of old.

I shouldn't say old.

That's not a nice thing to say.

I would say that all the time.

Yeah.

Legacy media tactics that have not been part of the retail media mix are all of a sudden becoming really cool again.

And that's.

What's the example?

Well, direct mail is one.

Like, you know, when we were all doing direct mail, like we thought that was dead, dying.

And, you know, it's coming back now, but in a physical meets digital kind of a way, which I think is really smart.

Right.

It's an effective channel if you.

It's done properly.

Right.

Your in store audio is another one, right?

Yeah, audio is another one out of home.

And then for us, the focus on experiences now, which is the tactile experience of being able to taste things, touch things, smell things.

You guys are looking at that too.

That's a big one for us.

In fact, Omni Experiences is our big growth engine for this fiscal year.

Okay, we're gonna have to have you back to talk about that.

I think we should have you out at an Omni Experience so you can taste things.

I think Omni Talk should have an Omni Experience.

Sign me up.

We're ready.

Get it done.

Okay, we're gonna get that coordinated for you.

All right.

All right, we'll end the diamond.

All right, so let's get you out of here with this last question.

You have done a tremendous job in all of your roles, but especially with Sam's Club and the information that you've shared about how you're really thinking carefully about how to approach your members with retail media?

What advice do you have for other retailers and brands who are listening to the program now from home, who don't have the luxury of having members?

They just like you said, it's true.

For customers who.

What advice do you have for them as they kind of embark on trying to improve their retail media?

I'm very passionate about this one.

Don't make it all about the money.

If you build the ad experience based on the money, you will not do yourself any service.

In fact, you're solving a short term problem and you're not fixing the long term one.

We were all merchants.

We've been in this industry for a long time building relationships.

It's why I think we all love to gather in places like this.

But somehow we've got to teach advertising executives retail.

You've got to teach retail executives advertising.

And I don't think that that trust has been Built quite yet.

There's a little bit of, I would say, still siloed behavior happening because there's a misunderstanding of people's love languages.

That would be the advice that I would give.

Well, I was just going to ask you.

I was like, how do you explain that, though, to executives who are so eager to use this as a profit center?

Don't, Don't.

I mean, you've got to make sure you deliver on customer experience first.

And if you make it all about the money, well, you'll serve the wrong ad or the wrong experience.

And guess what?

Members are going to be very unhappy with you.

Customers will be very unhappy with you, by the way.

They know.

They know.

They're actually smarter on the ads experience than many of the executives that work in these buildings right now because they're engaging with the apps every single day.

Right, right.

I want to press you on that a little bit because what you said, the implications of it are pretty, pretty stark, depending on how you think about this.

So, like, how then should, say, say, a smaller regional grocer or something like that where they're using an ad platform to basically run their retail media business?

Is that something you have to be really careful of?

Or, like, how should they think about that, given what you just said?

Because that's where my head started to go, is like, ooh, should I be designing this myself then?

Or should I really just take something off the shelf?

Like, what do you think, Harvey?

Back to the question you asked me earlier.

This is why Greg and I are best friends at Sam's club.

This is what we talk about.

We literally always ask, is it good for a member?

Can we do it?

Well?

Do we make money on it?

Three very simple questions.

Regardless of the tech, the platform, or the partner, if you can't say yes to those three questions, well, then you probably should start over again.

Simple advice, but effective.

Because I think if they're being honest to themselves, many of the things they're developing.

Don't say yes to one of those three questions.

And this is maybe something you want to put through a much sharper lens than other things as well.

If you're trying to stand up this arm of your organization, that's really fascinating.

All right, man.

That was great.

That was great.

It was so good having you.

I love this conversation.

I know Ann did as well.

Again, Harvey, Ma from Sam's Club, thanks for being with us today.

Thank you.

You are the best.

I love it.

It's been a pleasure, man.

And thanks to Meta for making our coverage of shop talk.

Day two possible.

And until next time, be careful out there.