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Well, welcome back to Not Alone with Melissa Sue Metfin.
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Today I have an incredible guest, Dr.
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J Michelle Jorgensen.
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And this is not just another dental podcast.
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This is for me as a dental hygienist for over 16 years, and also my late husband was a dentist.
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We owned a practice for over 16 years, so I've seen the progression from out of school to owning to the stress factors.
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I've sat by his side seeing the load.
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And also when he passed three years ago and died by suicide, I started asking questions.
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Why?
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Why is dentistry at the top highest rate for suicide?
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Why?
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You know, I was on so many podcasts, and a lot of people would ask me that.
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And in my first book, I did write a chapter about dentistry and what I started seeing signs as to maybe the root causes as to why it's the highest rate for burnout.
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Think of other healthcare professions that are really high stress, but they're still not at the top for suicide.
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So I I truly believe today Dr.
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Michelle Jorgensen will shine a light that needs to be heard not only for the patients, but for the dental community.
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And I'm honored to have you on my podcast.
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I'm getting a little emotional because I know I'm getting to the root cause by hearing your story.
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And I am so excited to be here today.
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Yes, thank you.
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Thank you.
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And uh I would love to start with kind of your story because I I know you became really sick as a dentist.
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And I think for me, uh the root cause of mercury poisoning was very much prevalent for my husband in his practice.
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He removed amalgams so much in his beginning of his career.
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He was known as a cosmetic dentist to remove all these amalgams for years and years and years.
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And now hearing your story of uh mercury toxicity, it's like a light bulb went on.
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I was like, oh my gosh.
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And you know what else?
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I got my kids tested for heavy metals, and my son and daughter were high in mercury.
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And so it just got me to dive even deeper.
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So I'm gonna let you just share because I feel like you we there's just so much we need to cover.
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Yep, yep.
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And I'm just really excited to be here.
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I'm so sorry for your loss, first of all.
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And this is one of the reasons that I share, is because it's absolutely devastating if people don't know, first of all, that this can happen, what you can do about it.
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And I am exactly where you are on the I believe this is the root cause for this high rate of suicide.
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You know, I often, it's not a joking matter, but we'll kind of joke and laugh and think certainly there are careers and professions that are more stressful than dentistry.
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I mean, yes, there's stress in dentistry, no doubt.
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I've been a practice owner for, you know, nearly 30 years now.
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But there are a lot of professions that have a lot of stress.
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And uh I've thought there's gotta be a different, there has to be a missing piece here, something else.
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So, yes, my story.
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I'm a general dentist.
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I've been practicing, like I said, for nearly 30 years now, and I started practicing with my father.
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I just thought I would pretty much go through my career like he has.
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He's actually in his mid-70s, he's still practicing dentistry.
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He practices in a maximum security prison.
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So it's really, it's a crazy, crazy thing he's doing now.
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But I just thought that's what I would do, that I would just keep practicing forever, you know, and I love dentistry.
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Sounds like your husband probably did as well.
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He did, he did.
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Yeah, you know, I was a cosmetic dentist also for many, many years, and our practice was growing and things were growing great, but things weren't going great for my body, for myself.
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And I started getting really sick.
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And anytime you get sick, you know, you just start doing the things you already know.
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My father or my grandfather was an internist, you know, my father was a dentist, and so we knew modern medicine.
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That's what I knew.
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That's what I was trained in, that's what I had really grown up trusting.
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And as I started going to every doctor I could potentially find, I wasn't getting a lot of answers.
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In fact, I wasn't getting really any answers.
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Mostly they would just hand me a prescription and kind of hope I would go away, I think, mostly.
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Yes.
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So uh my symptoms started out with gut issues.
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And, you know, in today's day and age, everybody just kind of looks at you like, well, doesn't everybody have gut problems?
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You know, and it seems like everybody you talk to does.
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So I thought, well, I'm nothing, nothing special here.
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So we started changing our diet.
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We, you know, threw away all of our food and it started throwing away everything that everybody says isn't good for you.
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And it helped a little, but it didn't help a lot.
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In fact, it got to the point where I couldn't even drink water without pain sometimes.
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Wow.
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So you know, just that I don't want to interrupt, but this is was my first sign too was the gut hit the gut.
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And I always tell people the only thing I could drink was bone broth.
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I could barely keep that down.
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So that definitely starts there.
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And a lot of people just think, oh, this is something else, right?
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It's bacteria, it's a parasite.
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You know, so we started doing all of the testing for all of that.
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Nothing was coming up.
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The next sign that was really big was my memory.
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And I've always had a really good memory.
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I could remember things, especially anything written.
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I could just have a picture of it in my head, and I could remember patients' names for forever.
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I could remember their faces.
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You know, they would come in and I would remember their entire story and all their kids' names.
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And, you know, that was just kind of the that was just the way my brain worked.
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Well, I stopped being able to remember a patient's name from room to room.
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I couldn't even remember the person I worked on 10 minutes ago.
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So it was very obvious something had changed.
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My team could tell something had changed.
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My my, you know, my husband could tell something had changed.
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So again, doctor after doctor, no results, no answers, no anything.
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But the one that was really life-changing and practice-changing was that I had numbness all the way down my hands, my arms.
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I couldn't sleep at night.
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I couldn't blow dry my hair.
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I couldn't brush my teeth, I couldn't uh, you know, use a pen.
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Hardly, I couldn't write more than a sentence or two.
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My hand was completely numb, just painfully numb.
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And it got to the point where I couldn't hold my dental instruments very well anymore.
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I was uh you're, you know, you're in the dental industry, I couldn't change my burrs, you know, the the hand piece on the handpiece, I couldn't change them anymore.
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I had to hand it to my assistant and she would change them for me and then hand them back.
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And I started thinking, ah, perhaps I shouldn't be doing this job anymore.
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If, you know, I literally can't even hold instruments and I would have to stop and shake my hand out.
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And it was really to the point where I thought I shouldn't do this job anymore, and I can't do this job anymore.
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And I was going to chiropractor like two, three times a week.
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I was having massage twice a week.
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I was doing everything I could think of.
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I was exercising and weightlifting, and I mean, on and on and on and on.
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I tried everything and nothing was making a difference.
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So I said, well, I guess I'm gonna have to sell the practice.
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At the time, like I said, my father and I were practicing together, but we had independent practices.
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So I put the practice up for sale and I thought, well, I've learned a lot about nutrition, you know, and changing our diet.
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So maybe I could do something with nutrition.
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And I actually found a dentist that had a nutritionist in his office.
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So I reached out and got a hold of him, and I talked to him and I said, Do you think I could, you know, just like do nutrition out of a dental practice?
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What do you think about that?
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And he said, Wait a minute, wait a minute.
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You know, tell me your symptoms again.
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They sound so much like mine.
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Have you ever looked into mercury as a potential problem?
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And I said, Well, no, I don't, I don't have any fillings.
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You know, I knew that amalgam fillings or silver fillings had mercury, but I said, I don't have any fillings.
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And, you know, I was taught that they're completely safe once they're in the mouth.
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And he said, Well, regardless of what you've been taught, perhaps it would be worth just getting tested.
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And he was right, I hadn't ever been tested for that.
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So I said, Well, okay, let's let's get tested.
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So I got tested, and that's what it was mercury toxicity off the charts.
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So at this point, I was a little shocked.
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I had no idea that this could even be a problem for a dentist, right?
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Because in school, they they always say, you know, never said it was unsafe, and everyone, you know, it's not even something that's being talked about.
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I know I've gone to many dental conferences, and it never comes up as a topic.
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Never.
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And, you know, in fact, in school, I was told that if I did tell someone that these fillings could affect their health, that I would actually lose my license.
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So it was the last thing I was gonna tell anybody.
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But here I literally almost lost my career because of mercury.
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And it wasn't the fillings I had, like I said, I didn't have any.
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It was the fillings I was drilling out every single day on patients because as a cosmetic dentist, people didn't like the way they looked.
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And when that mercury, now I can say things, now I can say these things.
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When that mercury is drilled on, it actually vaporizes the mercury and mercury vapor is going to rise.
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Anything vaporous is typically going to rise.
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Well, where's the dentist's head?
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Right above the patient.
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But this doesn't just go for the dentist, the hygienist.
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When you're using what's called a cavitron, I mean you you know what this is.
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Obviously, people listening, it's the it's the mechanical or the electrical tool that uh hygienists will use to clean teeth.
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When you hit a mercury filling, uh, you know, a silver amalgam filling, it will release mercury vapors.
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When that vapor is released, it's released into the dental, into the the air of the dental office.
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That's going to affect the dental assistant, it's going to affect the dental receptionist, that's going to affect everybody sitting in that dental office.
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It's going to even affect the people in the waiting room, you know, that are aren't there for that procedure, but are breathing that same air that it's being released into.
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That mercury is now released 24-7 in anybody's mouth.
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It's released every single time you chew, it's released every single time you swallow, every single time you eat something hot and then cold.
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So this is not talked about in dentistry.
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And to me, it's an absolute travesty.
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Like I have had major, obviously the health issues I talked about, but one that's really, really sensitive and near and dear to my heart is fertility issues.
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I have literally never been able to get pregnant my entire, my entire life.
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And uh we did in vitro fertilization, had twins.
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We're so fortunate, had two more failed attempts and adopted two other children because I was I've never been able to get pregnant.
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And there's a huge correlation between mercury and fertility in women.
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How many women work inside of dentistry?
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Yes.
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Like the large majority of the people in den not dentists, dentists, 50%, but everybody else are women, right?
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Hygienist, dental assistance, receptors, they're all women.
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This is all women that we're talking about.
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So not only gut issues, which are directly correlated with mercury, neurologic issues.
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Mercury is a neurotoxin, so it's going to affect your memory.
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It's going to affect, you know, but feeling and sensation like I have.
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Nerve damage.
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My husband talked about nerve damage.
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He had comp he was taking these medicines for nerve damage.
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And sometimes he would do local injection of himself on his back because he was so much pain and inflammation, couldn't get to the root cause.
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There was like a list of medications for all the symptoms.
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But now, now the I have no doubt in my mind that it was all mercury poisoning.
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And now I love the story that you you talk about, the Mad Hatter story.
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Mm-hmm.
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You know?
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Yep.
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Can you share the Mad Hatter story, you know, about Mercury?
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And where this might be illegal, is this illegal in some places to place amalgam?
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It is.
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It's actually been banned in many European countries.
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So in fact, uh many countries have been without it for 20 plus years.
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But yeah, the the origination of these fillings.
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So so people are clear what I'm talking about.
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These are silver fillings.
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So if you look in your mouth, you look in somebody's mouth, and you see kind of a black, grayish-looking thing in a tooth, that is the kind of filling I'm talking about.
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Any kind of metallic filling other than gold.
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There are a few little gold restorations hanging around.
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They were really done a lot, a lot of many years ago.
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But anything metal in your mouth is most likely going to be the kind of filling I'm talking about.
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And it is 50% mercury.
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We talk about mercury in fish.
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We talk about mercury in vaccines.
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Is anyone talking about mercury in dental fillings?
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And it is the number one source for mercury in the environment.
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Is dental fillings being drilled out, washing down our drains, going into the water system?
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So this is absolutely huge.
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And it started in Europe in the 1800s.
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At the time, there was no such thing as a dentist.
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There were barbers and there were doctors that were both doing dentistry.
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So barbers had you in a chair, they would lean you back, cut your hair, do a shave, and fill a tooth or yank a tooth, you know?
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And uh the doctors were doing the same.
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They were the ones that were doing dentistry.
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And the barbers were getting real tired of pulling teeth.
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And I can only imagine, you know, I've pulled teeth on people that are numb, and I have really great instruments and lights and everything, and they're doing it not numb.
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No, no way to really do this.
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I can't even imagine.
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So they figured out that they can mix silver shavings with elemental mercury, the liquid kind that's in a thermometer.
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They could mix it together and it would form kind of this putty material that they could shove in a tooth and a hole in a tooth and it would harden and it wouldn't lead to, you know, the tooth wouldn't further decay or it would at least slow it down.
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It would, it would take care of a lot of the problem.
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So they were ecstatic.
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Like this was a phenomenal invention, right?
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Be able to slow down tooth decay to be able to save a tooth, perhaps.
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But the doctor said, we actually think this is a really bad idea, because right around the same time, the common use for mercury was in hat making.
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People would rub mercury on fur and it would turn it into felt.
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And this is when all the men were wearing these felt hats.
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So they were using mercury to make felt hats.
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Well, what was happening is these young men who were doing this procedure with this mercury on the fur, they were getting what they would call Danbury shakes.
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They were shaking so bad they couldn't feed themselves anymore.
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And these were young, 20-something young men.
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They couldn't walk.
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They looked like they were drunk when they were walking.
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Their speech was slurred.
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So they started calling them mad hatters because they literally looked and acted like they were mad.
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And the doctors realized it was from the mercury.
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So they said, we think it's a really bad idea to put mercury in people's mouths because we see that it's actually like killing these people that are working with it uh in their jobs.
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And the barbers said, It's working great for us, we're gonna keep going.
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And they did.
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And that's what the United States, when when dentistry came to the United States, these mercury, silver mercury fillings were just part of standard of care, and they have been ever since.
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They have been, especially pediatric, you know, but because they're like, especially pediatric, because they're like, well, it's less expensive, and they're gonna lose that tooth anyways.
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Yep, yep.
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And it's commonly done.
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Now the FDA, I believe it's the FDA, has said that they are not recommended in children under the age of six or pregnant women.
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This has been a huge advance, actually, in our country.
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But anytime I hear that, I always think, well, if not them, then why anyone?
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Anyone.
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I don't really think it would be great, a great idea in anybody.
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But yes, they are still placed.
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So people will you often, that's usually the next comment to me.
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They'll say, Oh, well, aren't you glad that they're not placed anymore?