Breakdown (Amazon)

0:01 Voyage. Welcome to watch this tonight. I'm your host, An Bettimore. I'm a producd writer of film and television and now a podcast producer. And despite having every streaming service, I never know what to watch. So anytime I watch something good, I talk about it on the show. This way, you'll never have the same problem I do. I watched this tonight. There's always something good to watch. Let's get started, all right. Today on the show, we're doing one of our all star episodes about the film Breakdown. I am honored and thrilled to have Jonathan Fernandez, who is one of the producers of the film, and Jonathan also wrote and produced Rob the Mob with Michael Pitt, Andy Garcia and Ray Romano. And I was just telling you I've been having a little mini film festival of your films because when I when we connected, you were like, you should watch Rob the Mob too, And I had remembered when it came out and I had missed it for whatever reason. And I have. I think I have like half an hour left and I'm loving it. It's so fun, it has such a great energy to it. Um It's we could almost do a whole separate episode of Rob the Mob, but it's it has an amazing cast, just a stacked cast, and it's totally a bit like Breakdown that we're gonna talk about today, one of the movies that they don't really make anymore. So for

1:33 people, if anybody who hasn't seen Rob the Mob separately from this, go watch that movie. It's on Amazon on the freevie thing. You can watch it for free if you have Amazon. Yeah. Rob the Mob was great fun to make, and Breakdown was great fun to make. I really am very lucky and fortunate working with two amazing directors, Jonathan Mostow and Ray Defalita. Yeah, Ray to Falida, by the way, and Rob the Moob did a great job. There's a there was a moment there's a shot of like, um, I think it's Nina Arianda standing and she's silhouetted against the setting sun as money is floating in the air, and I was like, wow, who directed this movie? So yes, the big recommendation for that. I do want to tell people also the sort of hilarious way that we connected after a fashionable two year delay. Had I had tweeted at you what I had my old show movies. I love to know what talks about to do an episode of Breakdown, and then you liked my it was funny.

2:25 I was like, I saw it was like you liked my tweet from like two years ago. I was like, oh, that's funny. And then you had a message to me and you were like, am I too late? And I fortunately I have another show where I talked about movies, So here we are two years it because like that it's a global pandemic. What happened? All good? What I missed on this particular show. When we do older stuff, we do it as a watch This Night All Star meeting. A movie that you can watch again and again, and it's the years passed you look at it differently. And it was really interesting rewatching Breakdown with that in mind, because I don't know when the last time you saw it was, but watching it now, especially with the stunt work I think particularly, which is sort of a weird thing about it, but because of where we've gone with how action is done. When you if you go watch Breakdown today, you feel like you're watching Tom Cruise hanging on the side of the airplane, like there's stuff going on. You're like, how did they do this? Because we're so used to everything being done with the computer. Yeah, I rewatched it today and I have to tell you, the biggest thing was how awesome the effects look because they're real. They're all practical. Like Kurt Russell is hanging off the side of the truck, off the side of the truck, is hanging off the side of the bridge, and when he's in the water, he's in the water. So it's kind of crazy when I think there's something about the human brain that you know when something's real, Like you know, over millions of years of evolution, you can tell when something's real and when something's fake. And I think intuitively, you look at

3:59 that and you go, how Kurt Russell was hanging off the side of a truck on the side of a bridge. Holy cow, he's in the middle of the river, floating down. That is all real. That was all done practical, And I almost feel like watching it, it's kind of the last old school movie that way. You would not do a movie of that size of that budget today practical. It would all be cgi. And I think it's very difficult to get that sense of hanging and all the physicality and all the muscles in the actor to be just right, and I do kind of think that movie is like kind of the end of an era. Yeah. You know, there's an ai art app it's called mid Journey, and I used it for a pitch deck for something. And the premise of the thing that I used it for was it was basically aliens pretending to be human, and so there's something a little bit off, and mid Journey is actually perfect for that because if you just type in a mid journey a happy couple in bed next to each other, the art that you will get back ai R is frightening. It's not like you can tell that something is wrong and you can't put your finger on it, but you could sort of tell this is not something is weird about this. And I think visual effects, no matter how sophisticated they are, are kind of the same thing. Like you said, like people can just tell. Yeah. I think that's right, and I think just intuitively, your muscles are moving differently, there's a little bit of fear that like that is just genuine like I think everything's gonna go

5:30 right, but I don't know that everything's going to go right the actor is experiencing. In other words, Kurt Russell when you're hanging off the side of a thing. You really hope your stunt team really has their act together, you think, finger And I will tell you I was on set for that final chase scene and I was like, where do I want to stand? Because I knew it was like cars gonna be flying and eighteen wheelers flying and trucks flying. And I was like, I'm going to stand behind the camera cruit because those guys know what's gonna happen. And I'm standing behind them, and all of a sudden, the car goes flying up in the air. It doesn't flip. The front bumper, which is metal again, old school, not like the kind of plastic bumpers of today's cars, but a metal truck bumper goes flying in the air, and all of a sudden, it's gonna it's coming at me, It's coming at the camera crew. We all camera crew included hit the deck because we were gonna be decapitated. It was real. It was unpredictable in a way that none of us could have desk where that was gonna go. And I think that kind of randomness keeps the actor, keeps the crew, keeps everyone on their toes, you know, There's a movie that they made with Jar Butler. It's called Last Scene Alive, and it actually hit number one on Netflix, and it's I think it's a really useful comparison to this film. So that movie is basically Jar Butler goes to like a gas station and the wife disappears, and now he's got

7:00 to go find his wife. And I liked the movie. I did an episode on it, like I thought it was fun, but it was not people are the realities. I don't think people will be talking about that movie even six months from now. And I was trying to sort of isolate down on why because it's pretty similar to Breakdown in terms of the premise, Right, It's kind of like a seemingly regular guy, you know, loses his wife, has to go find her. There's a little bit of like a backwoods quality to it, which also was a Breakdown. And I was like, why is Breakdown sort of I think stood the test of time, whereas that movie probably will not send the test of time. And I think part of it is just the really really high quality of the execution. And I was trying to figure out what where that comes from and maybe where we've lost that in streaming because Breakdown is very well written, like it is not this is not a tossed off thing. Like there's a lot of moments, and I want to actually call out one, particularly because it was one of the only things that I had remembered vividly from the first time I saw the film.

8:00 JT. Walsh. You know, they kidnapped Kurt Russell's wife obviously spoiler alert U And then JT. Walsh eventually comes clean about it. Obviously was Sam that did it, and etc. And he has this moment where he's talking about Kathleen Quinland and he's describing her to Kurt Russell in a very sexualized way that is grotesque, And even the first time I saw it and then seeing it now it's like, sir, I was like, how dare you talking about Kathleen Quinland like that? But it was very well written, like it was written impeccably, And at the end of it he says, you know, if you let the cops know, I'll send you pieces of her from time to time, which is a great line. So it's just it evokes development, like people really worked and cared about the script. So could you talk about like maybe like from your perspective where there might be a difference there in terms of these processes. So first of all, you know, you have to give huge, huge, huge credit to Jonathan Mostow and Sam Montgomery who wrote the screenplay and all of that, all of that, all of that was in their first draft. And as Jonathan Mostow will tell you it, Kurt Russell will tell you it's exhausting playing Jonathan Mostow because that all of that paranoia, all of that that comes from John Mostow, and it's very much his worldview how he sees, you know, everything, and so all of that was on the page. All of that was on the page.

9:24 So when I first read the script, it was just, you know, holy cow, it was a tight script from the very beginning. And Mostow will tell you that, you know, he was marketing back to you know, Spielberg's first film, like Duel. So films like that are all part of the tradition. And then I think the other thing that, well, what's the difference is, well, you had one of the world's greatest producers, literally one of the greatest producers of all time in Dino de Laurentis. I mean, Dina de Laurentis is a legend. He's the guy who started in Italy after the war, produced Lestradas, produced a Bitter Rice. I mean, just an amazing, amazing filmmaker, and this story really spoke to him. In one hundred percent. Dino got behind this film. And you know, there are scenes in that film of like when Kurt Russell goes to the police station and he sees all the missing people the posters up on that was Dino. Dino really felt that, and Dino's vision was started right from the beginning with the casting. So one of my favorite stories was when I was head of production for Dino's company and he said to me, Jonathan, you know who'd be great for this movie, he says to me, and he says, Coralozo. And so this is again kind of pre internet days, and I was new. We didn't really have a shorthand Dino and

10:54 I and so I go back to my office and I pull out books you know you had to look up. And I'm thinking, I don't know this Cardo Looso person, and he must be some Italian cinematographer who I don't know. And I'm calling my friends at all the agencies I need to get Cardo Looso and everyone's like, I don't know who you're talking about. So I go back into Dina's office and I say, Dino, I'm really sorry, I don't know who this Coodo Looso person is, but I really want to find him for you, And Dino says, looks at me, just completely dismissive. He goes, how you be in the movie business, and no, no, the Coto Loza. Everybody knows the Cardo Looso. So now I double down on this, and finally I go into Dino's wife, Martha's office, and I say, Martha, I am so sorry, but I've looked everywhere and I cannot find this Cardo Looso person. And I know everyone must know, and I'm sure he's super important in Italian cinema, but who is this? And she looks at me and she goes, I don't know what you're talking about. So now Martha and I go into Dino's office and Martha asked him, Dino, Dino, who is Cardo Loso and Dino goes, Coudo Looso, hell of them? And finally we understood it was Kurt Russell that was that was who he wanted for the film, and again that was Dino. And Dino was the one who made the offer on the salary for Kurt Russell. He offered Kurt his previous salary, which I believe at the time was eight million dollars, and he offered it to Rick Nasita, and Rick offered it to Kurt, and Kurt said, I love the script.

12:22 I'm just I want to take the spring off. Dino thought about it. He then offered ten million dollars to Rick Nasita, and and and and finally, uh, Dino de Laurentis offered fifteen million dollars to Kurt Russell, and Kurt Russell came into our office the following day with Rick agreed to do. It meant with John Mostow, and that was Dino. I mean, so when you say why don't movies like Get That get made, it's because Dino de Laurentis willed that film into being. It's absolutely Jonathan Mostow's vision, it's absolutely his talent, his writing, his directing. But it was you know, you talk about the power of a producer. I mean, I don't know of many producers today who are at that Dino de Laurentius level.

13:11 I remember vividly. I had a meeting. Um. It was me, Nicholas Cages manager UM and then two different teams of producers for a particular project. And we had we spent I'm sure it was at least an hour. I think the director was there too, UM, just going over notes in the script and they were good notes and they'd like toil script apart. And we walked out of that meeting and I was like, I don't think Nicholas is doing this movie. And then the next day they were like, we've put X amount in escrow and and he's up not doing anyway. But it just goes to show you, Um, this is the part of it that people don't really understand. This is casting. Casting is basically. I mean I've had I had a Radioto movie like this. I had a bunch of movies. In fact, I think most of the movies where we've had a are involved. They first said no, They usually say no, and then depending on the producer, sometimes the producer will just refuse to accept no, and they'll just go back and say what did you want more money? Do you want less time? And the like? Does he have to be there for a week? What do we have to do? And yeah, it's like if you have that person who just refuses to accept no. And even in this is where it's like this where it was a good script, it's just all right, fine, how much money do we need until finally this is actually going to happen? And you got there. Yeah, And then we tried with Kurt Russell with Jonathan Mostow directing with the script, and we had half the financing from Spelling. First we went to Warner Brothers, and

14:43 Warner Brothers committed to it, and then Warner Brothers dropped out, so we literally were going into production. And I will say that when we couldn't get anyone, we went to every studio in town. They all passed. And Dina to make up the budget shortfall of Warner Brothers having dropped out, he mortgaged his own home to come up with the production funds. I mean, think of another producer who would do that, who would just literally mortgage his home to get the funds to do it, And he did. He literally mortgaged his own funds, so his own home. So it's just kind of crazy when you think about that level of commitment, that amount of faith and belief. And John Moss down in the script in the film. Yeah, it's crazy. And it's not the first time I've heard a story like that either, which shows you how terrible this business is. If you have any interest to do anything else, listener, go to something else, and I will tell you this. So, after I produced Breakdown, I started writing and I wrote the film Robbed the Mob. And I would go to these meetings and people would hear that I had been the executive producer on Breakdown, and they would say to me, and this was just crazy. They would say to me, Breakdown, now, Breakdown, that's exactly the type of movie we'd want to make. And it took all my self control and all of those kind of water bottle needings to say, I think to you, I came to your boss two years ago when the script with Kurt Russell with half the funding and they all had passed on it. And so you know,

16:17 everyone loves to Monday Morning quarterback. Everyone loves to say that, oh, after Breakdown open number one at the box office. That's the type of movie we would want. But in the moment with the script with the actor, with the director, nobody, nobody, nobody would kill to it. But they all said it a year later when I was going out with Rob the mob Now that's the kind of movie we want to make. Was hilarious. Is it's not like it's like a Fellini like art film, Like it's a very commercial movie. So it's just funny. I thought. Also, what was interesting and rewatching it is that I had forgotten is very much like a Western, like the themes of it, you know, civilization versus savagery. You know, the idea that in Westerns a big thing is civilized society versus like they have the town where they're trying to be civilized. Then they're faced with some sort of threat that the town that is civilized not able to handle, and so that's when they need the guy with the gun to solve that problem. And that's the whole ethos. So basically ninety percent of Westerns, and in this it's like the modern version of that where her Russell and they make a big point, you know, the Benetton sweater and all that kind of thing, and he's he's even he even says some stuff that's sort of pejorative about the locals and andys they set up that he is very much like a guy from the city, and it's like, great, get twenty miles outside of the city, nobody gives a shit. And this, by the way, has not disappeared from an American life. I produced a podcast called Borderline, which the true crime show about a crime that happened in a

17:48 small town in Texas and the geography of it that hasn't really changed, meaning that that town today is still you have to go like ninety miles to get to the next town. And there's places like that in America and I don't care how civilized you are, where at a certain point you're sort of on your own. And that's what's great about the premise is that the second the car breaks down and he's by himself and the wife's gone, You're like, what is that's it? He's on it, like how the hell is he going to get out of this? And uh, And it has a real edge to it that I think also again has been sanded down over the years, and we don't see movies that much anymore that our mainstream movies that have the edge that this has. I totally agree. I also think that John Moscow was sort of prescient in again that nineties where the whole world kind of the middle of the country. There's a lot of jobs that are lost that and when you actually I've thought about obviously I've thought about this movie way too much, but I have thought like, well, what really was this this cruise plan? Right? What was their m for stealing things? And it kind of like it's it's kind of like whoa, you could also get a job, because like you're like, if you think about what were they really trying to steal? What was their initial plan? It's not much money they're going to get. What are they gonna get his his jeep, his clothes.

19:15 They didn't know he had the ninety thousand dollars when they start their plan, and when you kind of look at the barn, it's just kind of like a big old garage sale of crap, right, So so how what was their plan to make money? And I think of like, well, maybe there were no other choices, right, Like it's kind of that era of when those kind of jobs disappear, and I thought that was very kind of prescient of where the country has gone. Yeah, I think also, um, and it is funny. I mean it's not like we don't have we just still have movie stars. But I do think that there was something about like there's a moment early in the movie when JT. Walsh is pretending that he hasn't seen carlsal before and I've never seen it before in my life, and Kurt Russell has this really small moment. He doesn't go big with it. He just goes like, what are you? What are you doing?

20:07 And he's so it's almost like his whole worldview collapses in that moment, his whole belief in society. And it's a real movie moment. And I was trying to think of, like, if we make that movie today, who's playing this part? Is it going to have the same gravitas to it? I think in part it's also like back then, the guys who were the movie stars, you almost felt like there was another world where this guy was, like Harrison Ford was a carpenter or whatever they had. They sort of came from real life and then became actors. And I feel like now it's like this person was always an actor. They're pretending to be this character and it doesn't have that same feeling to it. I totally agree, And I think, first of all, I think you look at Kurt Russell and you inherently trust him and you trust him going all the way back for the computer weren't ten issues. He was the Disney kid all the way through all of those movies. So you you trust him, so you're with him in all of that emotional goodwill. When JT. Wall says I've never seen you, I remember reading that moment and just being like, why, what's going on here? And it's that good kind of confusion that happened. So I love that. But I agree that there's something about Kurt Russell. I always believe that plays working class done good, Like like he's a guy who owned a started out working at a garage pumping gas but now owns five gas stations.

21:33 He just plays that guy. There's a great documentary on his father who had a minor league baseball team, and it was a fantastic documentary. Everyone should check it out. I believe it's on Netflix. But that was another like you just feel like, yeah, the battered Bastards of baseball. All that was what it was, the battered bastards of baseball. But definitely worth checking out. But you feel like, yeah, he's not he's not a major league baseball owner. He's a minor league baseball owner. And you just kind of feel like it's very relatable. Kurt Russell. Yeah, I mean it's it's almost like you look back at it too, when we had stars like like a Lee, Marvin Gene Hackman, Curry Russell, and then it's sort of morphed out of that and we sort of went away from where the star you could see them being a regular person. I think now in a weird way, it's almost like all of our movie stars are too good looking.

22:34 They're so handsome that you're like, I don't know that I believe that you were ever a regular person and would say that by the way he would say he in another life, he would have just been a minor league baseball player trying trying to make it into the majors, you know, like that's he's like, by the way, the baseball team we're talking about wasn't even Triple A, was a single A baseball team. You know, like this was like, you know, if they got five hundred fans, it was a good night. You know. I think in terms of like it makes me think of regards to ordinary people or people that look like real people. JT. Walsh it's like the king of that, right, JT. Walsh obviously one of the best character actors of all time. This is his final role if I remember correctly correct And shortly after he has a moment in this that is so great where his wife has discovered his like essentially the equivalent of like a rapist den Like it's this creepy the barn and the woman in there and all that, and I think Kurt Russell is saying to the wife, like get out of the hole or something like that, and JT is nonplussed.

23:41 He's not upset that she's discovered this. He doesn't care. He goes just pull the chain, Arlene. It's like, I again, it's not like we don't still have great actors like that. But I just think the casting of this film is so impeccable. And I do wonder if part of that is it's a programmer kind of concept, but it is executed at such a high level. Yeah, I mean everyone involved. I mean you can't underestimate the music by Basil Polydora as you can't. The casting was phenomenal. Everyone was just they were just terrific actors and it was a very I mean it's an actor's piece. I mean, John got phenomenal performances out of everyone.

24:26 It could have been over the top, it could have been cheesy, but JT is just fabulously understated. And when that mom is telling her son Paul the trigger, You're just like, oh my gosh, it's completely believable. He's such a good actor that I was almost like JT. Walsh, good dad. Like I was almost like, yeah, you got that kid. The kid was ready to go. He was ready to protect his dad with the gun. I also wanted to kind of circle around to what you said at the beginning fort of the practical stuff. So I'm watching the thing at the end where they dropped literally drop a tractor trailer on JT. Walsh's face. Essentially, I'm trying to think, how did you do it practically, like like just like how So the answer was there was a japanned crane because you couldn't literally have that there, but it was basically a crane, and it was basically a crane as a harness to make sure that it didn't look on JT. Walsh. Now that's a lot of trust JT had, and I don't know that I would have the same amount of trust that he did, but it was a it was an eighteen the cab of an eighteen wheeler, and it was hanging on a truck on a crane on a bridge that had been out of service than the nineteen fifties. So this was a lot of trust on a lot of different levels that I'm going to be honest, I don't know that I would have. So I'm JT. Wash I'm laying in this riverbed and I'm looking up and there's a truck lowering towards me.

25:57 I'm hoping, and I don't remember. I mean, we're talking. It's a bunch of years now. I'm ninety nine percent sure that when the truck was coming down, they at least took him out and put a I don't even think there was a stunt double there. I think at least they're like, all right, you're good. I'm talking about when the truck was hanging. So that still took a lot of faith, you know what I mean. But I'm assuming, Yeah, I'm gonna go with I'm committing to this that JT was not there when the truck fell. Yeah. So I mean, if it for someone like him for his career, it's almost like a perfect final role because it's such a great role. It was such a great role. It was such a great role. And yeah, Carol Lewis did an amazing job casting the film. Vicky Paul's production design was amazing.

26:47 I mean, it was a great team of filmmakers, really really wonderful people. But yeah, Carol was amazing in all those different people she brought in. And a great, nice little grace note at the end that Kathleen is the one you know, pulls the thing and it takes him out, And that was actually a decision made by Kurt and Kathleen on the set. They felt like it needed to be Kathleen to do it. I think I'm ninety nine percent sure it was originally scripted as Kurt's character, but it really was on the day they felt like it would be best if Kathleen did it. And I loved Kurt's reaction to it. It just felt really strong. You know. Another thing is the film originally had a much longer act, one like a fifteen pages of Kurt Russell was a photographer and he was down in Central America and he sees something awful and he comes back and he wants to quit his job and wants to change and they're broke and all of that was It was such a great lesson in what an amazing actors Kathleen and Kurt are and were able to do in that which was they were able to convey all of that love that was written over fifteen pages. In my opinion, the film really works, really comes together in that moment when they're broke down on the side of the road and she's teasing him and they're kind of laughing together, and you just see again you talk about movie stars, but the two of them are able to convey their love, their emotion. It's just fantastic.

28:18 And you didn't need any of the other stuff. You didn't need the discussion in their apartment. He didn't need why he was they were deciding. He just needed to know it's a young couple, they're in love, and they've decided to start their lives again across the country. I've mentioned this before. You know, you sometimes get the note from when you're developing a project where it's like, you know, a character comes into the house and he's got whatever, a bag of gold or something, and it's like, where did the bag of gold come from? Let's find out, let's show him going to the mind and getting the gold, taking the bag, driving all and it's like, you don't need that. The audience will pick all that shit up in two seconds. Just give them the visual. Yeah. I had something similar happened on Rob the Mob where I was given the note of like, well, where exactly do they get the gun? And you know, you write out these sequence of he goes here, he goes there, he negotiate and like I wrote it like, you know, as a good team player, but fully knowing that this was never ever ever going to get shot. So a good script, a good actor, is a good director.

29:23 If they can't get across that this is a couple in love, then you've got bigger problems going on. And you never doubted that Kathleen and Kurt were in love. Like it was a very powerful It's just it was such a great reminder of and that moment where she's teasing him and all of that, you just felt like, oh, this is the shorthand of like, oh, they're gonna meet it. You know. It's that feeling of like you see a couple and you're like, oh, they really do love each other, and you can see it in real life and just as much as you can see it in film. Yeah, as we wrap up, just um, I'm curious what you see in the landscape now. So particularly, it's actually interesting your two films, Breakdown and Rob the Mob. So Breakdown is the sort of you know, high concept but like you know, genre programmer kind of movie that now is probably made for I don't know what is Netflix making these movies for like twelve million bucks or something, and they kind of throw it out there and people talk about it for like a week, and then we never hear about it again. And then Rob the Mob.

30:22 I assume this is my guest because I know Millennium distributed. It is this old model where it's like foreign sales will get a whole bunch of recognizable actors, will build a big package, and back then foreign sales were still robust enough where you could cast it. Because Rob Mob's cast is insane. There is like seven hundred people that you've seen before in that movie, even down for very small supporting parts. And it feels like both of those kinds of movies no longer an option in our current landscape. Do you think it's gonna ever the pendulum will swing back that way or what do you see in the future, I mean, I don't know. I mean, see a film like Rob the Mob with with you know, forget Andy Garcia and Ray Romano, but like Frank Whaley, you will Vasquez, Michael Rispolly. I mean, it's kind of crazy, Bert Young, Kathy Moriarty, and then you know, Jeremy Allen White is in a supporting role and now you know he's the star of the Bear. I mean, I mean, part of it is a testimony to Raymond day Felia, the director. Part of it is I don't I don't know. I mean, I mean they're all still I mean, every every one of these people is still a talent, is still available, you know. So I feel like somehow the people producing these movies don't seem to think that that matters. I don't know why, because I think it does. But I don't really know the answer to the question.

31:53 But I too have noticed it, so I see exactly what you're talking about. I don't know the answer, you know, I don't what do you think the answer is. I really don't know. I think that a lot of this is predicated on what's going to happen with Marvel. I really do believe that actually is meaningful, meaning that we've seen some slowing of audience for the Marvel films, which have been so reliably just gangbusters again and again and again. And I think that if that continues, then there will be a reaction towards more original stuff. You know, both Rob the Mob and breakdown our examples of that right where basically it's an original idea. I know, the Mob is based on a true story, but they're not based on whatever comic book, graphic novel, etc. So yeah, I think it depending on how that goes, then this other stuff might swing one way or the other. I mean, what's interesting to me is I teach at AFI, the American Film Institute. I teach screenwriting there, and my students, when I asked them what they're watching, what they want to see, they kind of go two different directions. For most of them, movies are the Marvel movies. They want to see the Marvel movies opening weekend. They talk about the Marvel movies. But the other way they go, which I think is equally interesting, are the kind of super micro budgeted films that you see on shutter like kind of these like under one million dollar movies. And they've been amazing to me because they throw out these movies at me and I love them.

33:16 So I've seen a lot of little films that I kind of think, well, maybe that's how these movies get made. I mean they're very small and scale. I mean, it's like taking place in someone's living room kind of thing with five actors. But I don't know, I don't know, I don't like. I think you're right. I think Marvel has kind of sucked all the air out of the room, so I don't know. I also think, you know, Marvel kind of works globally, Like I think no one's going to get in trouble making a Marvel movie because it takes place in a fantasy universe, and I think for a lot of countries they don't want to touch on real topics. I think that's risky. So when you say it takes place in the Marvel universe, no one I mean and quite literally is going to get through to jail for screen of Marble movie. Yeah.

34:06 Well, thank you so much for coming on the shows. It's a real pleasure to have you on here, and I appreciate your insight. That is the episode for today. I want to thank everybody for listening as always. If you enjoy the show, give us a rating and review on Apple Podcasts, and subscribe for future episodes. Jonathan, thank you so much again. Thank you for having me, love being here. Until next time, Bye bye,