Dealing with Elul Anxiety and Overcoming Addiction with Renowned Psychotherapist Mordechai Weiss

0:00 A good Chodesh to everybody and a good Chag Choshar V'sameach. Rosh Chodesh is a holiday, it's a moed, and especially with the impending or upcoming month of Elul, it's Rosh Chodesh, elul. Now you can almost hear the signs or the sounds of the shofar and with that, a little bit of a accelerated heartbeat. But we're all excited for ELL. I thought it would be important and quite helpful for many of us, including myself, to hear about how to maximize the month of ELL in a spiritually uplifting and empowering way.

0:44 In a spiritually uplifting and empowering way, while also doing it in a healthy, not over-anxious or despairing type of way. And there is no better man that I can think of. This holy person Davin is right behind me in Shul, always there for free therapy. He is a licensed psychotherapist and I believe that he is also a Talmud of some of the greatest rabbis of our generation. You'll correct me if that's incorrect, but I'd like to welcome the famous Mordechai Weiss to the Motivation Congregation podcast.

1:24 Thank you so much, michal, really appreciate the opening remarks and those kind words and I'm looking forward to trying to respond to some of those points that you just mentioned and hopefully that our discussion will be a tayala. There'll be thoughtful ideas that we'll discuss and hopefully we'll all be able to approach Elle in a virtual and healthy way so that we can use the experience in the way it'll be the most beneficial for everybody. Did I, I mean, I mean, I mean to that. Did I get that right? It's licensed clinical social worker and psychotherapist.

2:08 Is that the official title? Yeah, that's, that's all. That's all a good reference to who I am and what I do. So yeah, and they speak about you. The great rabbis speak about you very highly, and they're ones that I think that they even view you as a I think the right word is confidant, or they speak with you about it. Who I forgot who is the rabbis that you learn under? Just for the audience where did you study in yeshiva in your youth and who are your rabbis? Okay, so I studied in the Philadelphiailadelphia yeshiva, known as philly.

2:49 I was there for a few years and then from there I went on to eric's thrall, learned from the briscoe briscoe kylul, and then, after I got married, um, I went back to eric's thrall. I had the biggest cost of being in eric's thrall for five years after I was married, and at that time I got close to Balibar Frinkel, the Chetanek, lev Rafa, and at the same time I also became close to what I think might be two of the foremost most of the personalities in our generation. Rav Rubin Leichter is one of them. He is a very prominent Talmudic. Rav Shlomo Volba. I'm obsessed with him, not to say obsessed with therapists, but I'm obsessed with Rabbi Ruben Leichter.

3:29 Yeah, we've heard of him here. And as well as of Noach Orlowick, who is also a well-known mashkiach. Both of them authored several books or svarim and they're well-known in the chinuch world. Several books or Svarim and they're well known in the Chinook world, definitely big thinkers in terms of psychology, what we call Chinook, shalom, bayes, musser how to work on oneself, self work, working with others. So definitely they both have been tremendous influences on my life and I consider it a big skutz that I learned from them for several years and both have been tremendous influences on my life and I consider it a big success that I learned from them for several years and I still keep up the shyness and I still learn from them and that's a very you know, that's extremely, extremely helpful for the work that I do within the firm community working with clients.

4:19 It's very hard to separate the clients that I see even in my office. That's brilliant. And that is quite the bullpen and lineup of rabbinic personalities I didn't know.

5:02 You learned in the Brisker Kylo. That's some top-end, high-end learning, and you're in Kylo longer than I've been in Kylo, so let's hope that I can get past the five-year mark. But I think you're the perfect man then for the job. I come to you holding a message of wanting help for myself and for fellow as you call them, clients, fellow Bachram, jewish youth, maybe even adults. Elul is my favorite time of the year because I love that. It's a short month and the Elul's man in yeshiva ain't six months. It ain't like the winter's man or the summer's man.

5:43 Elul's intense and yeshiva ain't six months. It ain't like the winter's man or the summer's man. El is intense and um definitely in the confines of the on the walls of yeshiva. El is famous, along with the impending judgment and notwithstanding um. Definitely included in all this is also a fair amount of anxiety, and perhaps even a bit of some unhealthy anxiety, which I like to pose the question to you directly Is there a way that we can keep Elul a strong I don't want to say intense month, but a different than all the other months type of idea that there is the high holidays and judgment coming up, but is there a way to go about it and how would you advise somebody that wants to go about it in a really, really productive way, but a non-anxious and completely healthy way?

6:49 healthy way. That's a really excellent question and it's something, Michal, that very much is relevant to so many people and while the discussion that we're going to talk about is pertains to Elul, but of course it also can come up in all areas of Avaytus Hashem. So Elul, as you mentioned, is a time of generally where people are feeling more intense because of the seriousness of the days, but at the same time, Aved Hashem in general is serious, and often anxiety can be mixed in there in an unhealthy way, and those people as well, even who are not specifically wondering about Elul, but even people who might be wondering about in general. How do I approach the seriousness of Aved HaSashem without creating some form of unhealthy anxiety?

7:32 I think that would be relevant to think about it in that broader way as well. You have my attention and I'm sure you have the rest of the world's attention. So what's the secret sauce? How do I know? How about let's go like this and get very, very, very direct? How do I know that something is a step too far and maybe closer into the pool of anxiety and not healthy? Yiras Shomayim. Yes. So I want to reflect a little bit on what I was saying before and what was brought up in terms of my background, and that is also why I feel that in some way, I hope that I would consider myself qualified to respond to this is because I've also not only is my response going to be, you know, based on what psychology thinks about anxiety and what's healthy and what's unhealthy.

8:25 Definitely a lot of my thinking on this topic is influenced by Torah perspective, by the Rebbeim that I learned by as well, in terms of how to approach Levitas Hashem in a healthy way. So definitely it's something that I've learned about, and I also sit with clients. This is what I do pretty much a whole day. I do have several specialties, so I specialize in anxiety and OCD and the third one is Kedusha struggles. Maybe that's something we'll talk about as well at some point during our conversation. So those are my three areas of specialty. Anxiety and OCD are very closely related and since I sit with people who you know struggle with these, these areas so definitely something that I had a chance to think about.

9:09 I've grown through getting to know what you know, what's happening in people's lives and how to help them, how to work with them. So I do hope that my answer then will be on target and will be helpful. Okay, so let's try to talk about anxiety and how do we approach all this in a healthy way. So the first thing we have to understand is that, when it comes to Elul or Yom HaNerom and all those times that are considered, you know, days of awe, and there's judgment and all of that, we have to recognize that Yerushalayim does not mean being nervous or under stress, and any time that we are going to be using some form of a Torah-based approach to something including Yerushalayim, it has to be something that's workable and functional.

10:06 So, since the way we see people who are under stress, under direct, under tension, when people stop functioning well, when people are suffering because of what they might think, let's say, is the requirement or the religious requirement, so we first need to just have a corrective understanding of what the Torah perspective actually is. So I think we need to talk a little bit about that first and then maybe I'll shift a little bit to anxiety.

10:56 Perfect, perfect, okay, perfect, perfect. And while that is something that's important, but we have to recognize that the fear that they are referring to is something that is very constructive, something that can be used in a way and the best way that I think that we could translate it in English to the way that might look like would be to approach either these days or this subject with a sense of seriousness and awe. When you approach something with seriousness and awe, it's because you take the topic or you take the moment seriously.

11:36 There's something very serious on the table that we need to be doing. There's some very important that's another word that we can use a very important endeavor that has to happen. For example, in Elul, the call of the hour is Truva, and there's something that we need to be working on. We need to be working, we need to be doing something. So, therefore, we need to attach a great importance and a great seriousness to what's in front of us, but we have to also recognize that that's different than saying that we have to be in a state of fear or being overwhelmed or stressed, which we know both from you know experience and we know from what works is that that doesn't work.

12:20 It just doesn't work. When we're overwhelmed and we're fearful, what happens is people just freeze. You know, either you freeze or you get overwhelmed, and definitely anything you do in that state can be done in a way that you is well thought out and it typically doesn't have any lasting effect is just to get shaken up and just to feel overwhelmed a little bit. And when it comes to the Elo, you feel super overwhelmed and then you breathe a sigh of relief, matzah and kippur, and you say, thank God, I hope I made it through this and that's the whole purpose. That doesn't seem too rational it can't be, yeah, wow.

13:02 It cannot be. But isn't today so serious? Isn't the topic so serious? So I have some analogies for that. You know a brain surgeon or a heart surgeon. Definitely, what they're doing is very serious. You know the slightest wrong move and you know that has a disastrous outcome. You know somebody who's working in the army and somebody you know who's loading ammunition onto you know the bomber plane. That's very super serious. You know you don't want to mess up when you're doing that kind of work. You don't want to just be. You know, whatever I'll just, you know, let me pass you those explosives and sort of cross the room.

13:42 No, that's not the way you handle it. But at the same time, the last thing a brain surgeon. You don't want a brain surgeon who's nervous before he comes into the operating room and you don't want somebody who's working in the army to be shaking in fear as he's dealing with the you know ammunition that he's got to be working with. You want somebody who is calm, very calm, one second. But doesn't that mean that they will be lackadaisical and non-caring and they'll, you know, approach the whole thing as if it makes no difference? No, of course not, because being calm is not a contradiction to taking the work as something that is serious, something that's important, something that you need to be doing with care and attention, but that does not mean, though, that it has to be in a state of shock and a state of feeling overwhelmed, which is completely unproductive.

14:43 So, I think, clarifying what seems to be the Torah-based approach, just to be able to say that, hey, we have to first recognize what is the truth about what the Torah wants from us when it comes to El Yom Teruah, and if we can kind of make that assumption that what I said now is correct and, again, I'm not making this up myself- this is a million dollar answer. I love the way that you've kind of came at it through. You know, first there's the Torah sources, because you know part of it is keeping the authenticity of Elo and working through that. It is Yom sound a little bit easier than mayim and eish, if I'm catching it properly, is that is staying calm but staying real?

15:27 Maybe enlighten me a little bit more. How do I tell the difference? How can I tell the difference between Yerash HaMayim and anxiety? I'd have to say it in a few words. It's when we are being productive or we're being unproductive. You know, I too learned in yeshivas, where you felt that level of intensity.

16:15 You know when it comes. You know when you just start getting those butterflies in your stomach and you feel frozen and now you can't really do anything. You know, or you're just feeling overwhelmed, or you hear some schmooze and you're just again you're feeling so overwhelmed from that, then that's a good way of knowing that there's really not much that's productive about this and this is not going to be a productive form of Yerushalayim. Yes, it sounds like it's the thing. It's fear of heaven or fear of God or fear of judgment. But it can't be that the fear that they're describing in the Shemarim is asking to have this type of fear that becomes completely unproductive. In fact, we saw Salanter in one of his letters.

16:57 He described Yerushalayim as being a productive force. He says Yerushalayim is the force that drives people into action. So if Yira becomes a force of inaction and that shuts us down and that allows us to just feel overwhelmed and stressed, and that we feel like we can't do anything or anything that we can formulate, any type of work we can formulate in those moments is short-lived and it's not based on any calm approach. That's a pretty good sign that we are not using the era that's called for in these days in the correct manner. It's incredible. It comes to mind the whole Elul, I believe, is very much in the sources built up as from the Rashi Tevis, the acronym of Ani the Dodi the Dodi Lee, that verse from Shira Shirim, which, which is is one positive that just basically means this is a relationship of love Ani the Dodi the Dodi Lee, I'm to my beloved and my beloved is to me.

17:57 So it is kind of interesting to go back to the very source of the whole thing, which is that if God is some big, scary father and it invokes fear and it's not constructive, we can be pretty certain maybe that's not what El is supposed to be used for. In turning the page here before the show, going back and forth a little bit and being able to understand a little bit about the value that I thought all of the world, or as many people that listen to the motivation congregation, very much need to hear. You had mentioned that what you see in your experience and experience is and meetings with people is there is a fair amount of anxiety that is provoked because of something that you call perfectionism, which I believe, if I studied enough English or listened to my dad enough means that people are obsessed with being perfect and somehow that leads towards some ill effects.

19:06 Uh, mr mordechai, would you care to elaborate on that? definitely, definitely, um, okay, should I first reflect a little bit on what I I was saying before, that we could kind of divide the um religious perspective on how to approach owl, and then, in terms of, like anxiety, what's considered healthy and not. Should I speak a little bit about that first? Yes, perfect, okay. So just to answer the part about, you know, anxiety, when it's considered, you know, healthy or unhealthy. It's very similar to what we discussed till now and it basically, you know, comes down to if it's productive or not, right. So as long as somebody says, hey, I'm feeling a little bit of pressure, a little bit of a push, a little bit of something that you know giving me a, pushing me into action, that's fine, you know.

19:56 And as long as people in general are functioning well, then we don't necessarily consider that an anxiety problem, because it's not a problem. You know, it becomes a problem when it's a problem. It becomes a problem when people are suffering, when somebody is not functioning well because of their anxiety, when somebody is feeling, you know, worn down physically there can be physical symptoms when they're obsessing with worry or all kinds of thoughts in their mind and that interferes and proper functioning and just living a calm life. That's when we consider anxiety a problem. So when it becomes excessive and it becomes non-functional or interferes in functioning, that's when we consider it a problem.

20:43 I want to just address that point and I think it kind of falls off. The first point Definitely definitely, and I want to mention that I'm sure there's different parts of anxiety. That is one your specific specialist in is obsessive compulsive disorder and that is called OCD for short. Is that a type of anxiety? Is that? Yes, yes, that's a very good question. Um, so I believe that in the, you know, we have what's called DSM and that is the Bible, so to speak, for mental health, and in there they classify all the disorders.

21:23 And I think in the previous version of the DSM they did put OCD as a class under anxiety. Since then they separated it and they made it its own disorder, but simply because it had its own defining features, and that's kind of the reason that they separated it. But that's kind of just the clinical response. But I think what's more relevant is that definitely, ocd is a form of anxiety. Ocd always comes along with anxiety. Those who experience OCD are anxious about whatever it is that they're obsessing about, whatever behaviors they're doing. So it has a lot of similarities but there are differences and often you know there can be somebody who's very knowledgeable about treating anxiety, but not specifically OCD or the reverse, and you do need to have, you know, good awareness and training in each of those things, because there are some nuances and differences in the approach that we use to treat OCD and anxiety.

22:25 So, now that we have clarified exactly what everyone's suffering from and struggling with and what we all need help with, be it as it may, so now Rosh Hashanah, yom Kippur, is coming and there is this drive to repent, I'd like to wake up on time for Shacharis every day. I'd have it at 7.30. I'm going to be personal, it'll be like some free therapy and I like to be there at 7.25 so I can gather my thoughts and put my tefillin on in a very calm and measured way, maybe even have some time to say the morning karbonos, those sacrifices, and get the keyar in there and the karbon tamid.

23:11 But I can't promise or make a shavua that I always am on time and I would like to perfect that this coming Elul. That's one of my kabbalahs, one of my commitments. I'd like to perfect that this coming Elul. That's one of my cabalas, one of my commitments. I'd like to be perfect at it and I'd like to turn over or on the stop of a dime, stop waking up late. I know that ain't exactly how it goes about In making a commitment to wake up on time and dealing with anxiety in this way, in dealing in the search for perfection in this way and hoping to turn the leaf over. Could you advise me, doctor, as to, or, mordechai, as to, how to best go about this in the most healthy and productive way?

23:59 So let's talk about perfectionism. You know that you brought up and I think that that's a topic that hopefully can be relevant and whatever we discuss, it can be helpful to a lot of people. So we are a society that very much values outcome, that values performance, and that definitely rubs off on our approach to religion as well, and that's the focus of our discussion here. So when religion becomes about performance and outcome, that's basically what we call perfectionism. You know, perfectionism means that I need to be doing everything perfectly, I need to be functioning perfectly and I need to get to the desired outcome and result that I would like, and if not, and if I don't get there, then I can feel very crushed from that.

24:52 That's what could happen on the one end. So there's basically two things that could happen right. So if I set my bar as needing to be perfect and needing to do whatever it is that I'm working on in a very perfect way, so on the one hand, I could work in a way that's completely non-functional. So sometimes we have boys who will suddenly devote themselves to learning in a very perfectionistic way. They want to be the gagohadar and they may learn way more than they're capable of handling. Too many hours, not enough sleep, not taking care of their basic needs, not socializing the way a young man needs to, and you know they can pretty much cause themselves to get burnt out or to suffer other mental health consequences along the way.

25:41 Many of those type of boys show up in my office and the underlying problem there is is one of perfectionism. So there's an approach of approaching this thing that I want to excel in learning, or I want to excel in whatever it is, or I need to dive in in a certain way, or I need to work in a certain way. And if the way I'm working is needing to be perfect, so then you work like a madman or you work in a way that's completely not necessarily according to one's own nature or their capabilities, and that can, of course, create a lot of anxiety, right? So anxiety shows up for us when we feel overwhelmed and incapable of dealing with what's in front of us.

26:22 That's typically what creates anxiety we can't deal with the circumstances. So if religion becomes so pressuring, so overwhelming, then I'm going to feel pretty anxious because I can't possibly live up to the demand that's in front of me and that'll just make me feel worried and make me feel nervous. But you can't be asking me. You can't be asking me, then, to then accept complacency and to therefore therefore just become an average Joe and not a great Torah sage, because that sounds even worse. Right, that's very good. That's a good question. That's a good question. We are so used to thinking in terms of perfectionism that your assumption is the automatic assumption of what people think is the alternative.

27:10 Well, if I'm not going to be perfect and if I'm not going for perfection, then, mordecai, you're basically advocating for complacency, you're advocating for mediocrity, because why should I do anything? I'm going to be a Beny for the rest of my life. Yeah, yeah. So that, I think, just shows us how much this perfectionistic view is entrenched, that we think that it's either that or the alternative is sitting on a couch and eating chips. Here I'll show you what the alternative is to perfectionism. That doesn't mean sitting on a couch with your feet up. You know eating chips. Here I'll show you what the alternative is to perfectionism. That doesn't mean sitting on a couch with your feet up. You know, eating chips and drinking soda. The alternative to perfectionism saying that there's something important and there's something serious in front of me that needs to get done.

27:57 Learning is very important. Bisul Taira super serious. Davening very important. Now, how do I approach this important, serious task in a way that's manageable, in a way that's doable, in a way that's according to my nature, in a way that's going to make sense, in a way that's going to last? That seems to be a great alternative to saying that there's some demand that needs to be reached and there's some outcome I need to get to, which then says that I'm only going to be working in a very unproductive, crazy way. That's not going to last. It seems so logical, but it's almost a logic that's lost to so many of us because we don't like.

28:42 You think that if you're not going to have now, here comes a you know a hot word or maybe what's going to be a hot topic like, if I'm not going to have the drive or the desire to be like I don't know what, like the god, then the alternative is that I'm going to sit and do nothing, which, um is, uh, you not really the case. You know, I think you could have a Sha'ifa, not to be the Gad al-Hadar, but just you take the work that's in front of you very seriously. Now I personally have like 15 Mekairis. You know in Chazal and Svarim that, you know that's the case. But Sha'ifas is like all the rage, you know. Every yeshiva boy knows you have to have Sha'ifas.

29:24 Now, I'm not opposed to Shaifis as long as they're working and they're not killing anybody. The problem is so many boys who come into my office and so many people in society and even those don't come into my office are killed by this perspective that says you need to reach and be something. That's completely unattainable, completely it's beyond anybody's reach, but you need to get there. So either you have two options Either you work like a madman and then you burn out at some point, or you just keep on working but you wrecked yourself physically, mentally, emotionally, or you just despair. You know, because you realize after a short time, since how long it takes you to realize that.

30:04 But most of us will not be Reb Chaim Kaniyavsky. There was only one Reb Chaim Kaniyavsky, that's it what should I aspire to be like? now? I feel unempowered yeah. So the alternative is to work to be what you can be. Now, people know these sayings too, but they don't seem to be like. They don't to be what you can be. Now. People know these things too, but they don't seem to be like they don't seem to be. They don't use this way to apply themselves. They all know that. You know that there's a famous Zisha that he said, david is going to ask him why would you like, zisha, I could say these words, but I don't say these words. But still, people, it takes a while to integrate this way into our thinking that, no, I'm going to be what I can be.

30:49 That's not mediocrity. That's simply saying I'm going to try to be what I can be by taking whatever I need to do in the way that Hashem seriously why do I have to reach for something that's completely beyond my reach? Why that the way to work? if this is so novel, it's so novel, it's so novel I had a russian shiva, so I had, of course you know I had. I had the talmidim, you know. Come to me for the help. You know, after they maybe try to go to the rabbeim and they don't get the help they need. So they send them here or they come here and, and this talmud wanted to be, you know, he actually had had some pretty and he wanted to be like his, you know, whatever and like those. You know that he worked to be all those things.

31:32 But he was suffering emotionally tremendously. He was full of anxiety. His davening became a burden and took terribly long. He was learning, you know, friday night till two in the morning and he wasn't sleeping enough. So the kid was on the way to giving himself, I don't know what, but he was definitely suffering now and if he continues like this he's going to be a mess. So they send him to me. So there's no way and this goes back to what I said before I need to be able to talk a perspective that pertains to Al, uh, you know, to my clients, because no one's gonna listen. He's not gonna listen, right, what am I? gonna say don't be anxious, because it says in you know my psychology book that you have to, you know, be calm, and that you shouldn't work in a way that, no, but the tyrant says, don't you know that you have to work with sheifas?

32:21 the ram bum says we could be as great as Moshe Rabbeinu Right very good. You know you have all the Mekaius, so they have, I know all these Mekaius, it's a good thing. But I also know all the other Mekaius, right, so I have to speak to them about it. I have no choice. You know I don't have a beard, you know, but have to be able to speak to them about how do you approach a way to shem in a calm way. So I do have to talk about she is and I do have to tell the kids. Some of what I'm sharing with you here is that they're you know I talk about as a discussion. I don't like to tell them, you know, but I have a discussion. How do you approach this? Does this make sense? That makes sense and I have to try to let them know that you could approach a way to shem in a way that you're not giving up one drop of effort or one drop of seriousness.

33:06 You know you don't have to want to be, I don't. You know, like I give a muscle. You know, like if, let's say, I go to the doctor and he says to me Mordechai, you know it's important for you to incorporate exercise in your life. You know, for whatever reason, for your health, you need to. You need to do exercise, but you need to. You know lift weights. So you need to jog, you know, at least you know, three times a week, half hour. So here's the like, the way that I think, based on how people approach a Vedas Hashem in a perfectionistic way, would say that you need to approach this. Well, if I'm going to need to exercise three times a week, I need to have in my mind that I want to be an Olympian, I want to be able to run in the hundred meter race at the next Olympics and I need to be able to beat the record.

33:54 I need to be the world's fastest runner, because if not, why would I exercise three times a week? Why would I go running unless I want to be the Olympian? Nicole, does that make any sense to you? Absolutely, notle. Does that make? any sense to you, absolutely not preposterous. Make one drop of sense. So what would you say? Oh then, if you don't be the olympian, you're probably just going to sit on your couch and not do any exercise. You probably just going to take out a uh, you know, a margarita and sit on your couch and drink. No, that's if I'm an idiot, but if I, if I'm able to approach this as something serious and important, not as something overwhelming and scary. It's serious, it's important. The doctor says for your health you need to exercise several times a week.

34:34 I don't need to want to be an Olympian In fact, I have no interest in being an Olympian but I do want to be healthy. So therefore I might decide to exercise several times a week and do that seriously, without having any overarching. You know goal to reach some type of place? No, I don't have to reach anywhere, I just have to do exercise. That's it. Now. Let's just apply that Lamassu to learning or any part of. Why do you need to be an Olympian in a Vedas Hashem like? Why do you have to want to be a in order to learn a Taisvah? You're in the Besh Medrash, you're a Yishiv Bacher there's a mitzvah called Talmud Torah. That's very serious, very important. Now you need to approach it in a way that works for your life.

35:22 In fact, let's go like a madman. The first week I'll bust my knees, I'll destroy my shoulder, I'm going to try to do some exercise that are completely not according to my nature. That don't work, that won't last. I'll feel overwhelmed by that. So it's the same thing when you apply Tawheed to Hashem, in the same way. You know, if I try to be something that is way beyond me and I, I'm back right. So why do you have to be that way? You know what's wrong with approaching it by saying let me take this seriously and I'm going to find a way to approach this demand in a way that works, in a way that's going to last, in a way that I can do it calmly.

36:03 That has nothing to do with Sha'ifah, that's just saying the topic is important. There's something serious that needs to be done. There's a demand, the Abish, the demands that you don't have a choice, you know. It is so I'm sorry to interrupt you, it's so, it's so eyeopening because it rubs me the wrong way so intensely and and um, I think that's why you get paid to rub people the wrong way and tell them the truth. It's a lot of fun, and and yet, the more you say it, though, the more it's it sinks in as as hey, I think you're on to something here, um, and there's just coming to mind also so many sources actually working it back towards the Torah sources.

36:47 I'm pretty sure that that that's how Rabbi Elchanan Wasserman learns that Rambam, that every person can be as good as Moshe Rabbeinu in his own potential, and I'm sure that that, once we have this piece of Chachma, dare I say MS, then it probably works and sings like a song that's shot in so many of these Myra McComos, and probably can't we say that we could judge that this is correct because of the results that it produces. Would you you would agree with that, wouldn't you that? Basically, when people adapt this not accepting of mediocrity, but this, it's like, it's like barf when I'm saying it, or vomit, I don't know what the right way to say it is but this lowering of their aspirations, then they become a better servant of God.

37:39 Is that true? I definitely think that's true. It's definitely what I see from experience. It makes all the sense in the world. I can't understand why it would make any sense to work in this shaifa kind of way. Yes, there might be some people that it does something for, but to say that that should be the general approach, that I might not. It's so novel. Before that I was saying before this rosh yeshiva, who I was seeing as talmud. So when once I shared this kind of idea with this student, he went back and I said he comes from a very prominent family and he shared this with his parents and apparently blew their mind. What do you mean? He has to want to be like Kivei or something. What's this therapist telling him? And he went to speak to Rashiva. Basically, rashiva called me up, like it was like a crisis.

38:22 Rashiva called me up and I don't really have a lot of time, you know to speak to everybody who wants to speak to me on the phone between you know so many clients and there's all these. Third, like you know, there's a BAM, there's a Yeshiva, there's Terran. So in a way, I can't, you know, have a dialogue like I'm having with you, michal, where I can go into length and I can talk all the sources. So, simply, as was, you know, so taken aback by that is because the automatic reaction to that is that oh so you must mean to be saying to this boy that he should be sitting on a couch, like that's obviously what you're saying.

39:06 They don't understand. You know that there's a way to approach this so novel, you know, but it's so sensible that it's surprising that it should be novel, but it's so sensible Everything that we've said till now, you know. Just approach something in a workable way because it's serious and it's important. What do you add on by saying to strive for something that's way beyond your abilities, what is it? Tell me how it, how it helps. You know what does it do other than create nerves, intense and super and horribly popular problem that plagues countless people in the Jewish world, if not the world at large, which is the overwhelming feeling of yiyush, which is, in English, means despair or hopelessness, which is, just like Rabbi Israel Solandra says, one of the most debilitating diseases and yet one of the most contagious diseases.

40:16 It's easy to catch a bad case of the. I'm never going to wake up on time and I've tried to give up that sin 50 times, but yet I can't. So let me just throw it all away. I have a feeling that these two things go hand in hand. But, to point the question directly at you, how does one deal with the hopeless reality that, with Elul coming up, it'll probably be just like every other Elul that I want to wake up on time. I want to give up that sin. I probably will for about a day, maybe a week, maybe, if I'm lucky, for a month, but after that I'll probably be right back to where I started and therefore I feel hopeless.

41:07 Very pointed question, michal, and definitely one that I can identify with. I think most of us can identify with, especially those who've been through many Elols, and when a buffer is still very young, he might still be holding on to that She'ifa where he thinks this will be the hour, this will be the year. But it's definitely a painful reality and a painful feeling for a lot of us that we're here again and did things really change? Did we change? How's it going to be different now? And that's that's. That's something that I think that's important to address. Probably on a lot of people's minds. There's many parts to the question.

41:48 So, in terms of of uh, you know the despair, uh, being connected to what we spoke about before, I think that's one aspect of it, right? So if abedis hashem is about being perfect, if we need to do things perfectly, if we need to have perfect outcomes, then definitely despair is the natural outcome. So, like we were speaking about before, like one of two things happen if you need to be perfect Either you work in a way that's completely overwhelming and stressful and somehow you maintain that until you don't, and then, when you can't maintain it anymore, then you just fall into despair because I know I can't do this. Well, yeah, you can't do what you were doing, or you know we can't, you can't be perfect, so uh, but if the belief is that I need to be perfect and I need to, you know, reach and I need to have outcomes, then it's very easy to feel a sense, much easier to feel a sense of despair, because I know that I haven't reached, I haven't achieved, I haven't gotten to the end and it seems like it's a place that's too far for me to get to.

42:49 So then despair is only a natural outcome of that perspective. So, shifting the perspective on a Veda Sashen, as we were speaking about before, and saying that it's not necessarily or it's not at all actually about outcome or about achieving, here's one of them the kairos, which everybody knows, but for some reason, again it'll. It won't sound novel, but it's apparently novel. That mishnah is describing and it's saying you know that the way is set up is not for one to finish anything, so why would you be going for the finish line or why would you be saying that I need to get somewhere?

43:36 The Mishnah says that is not how Avedis Hashem is set up. So what is Avedis Hashem about? You need to work. You need to take this seriously. You need to take this seriously. You need to approach this with a sense of importance, and it's very important and it's super serious. You need to get the job done. You're a mitzvah, you know. The Hebrew says you have to do these things, you're not allowed to do those things. So we have to approach it with a sense of a willingness to work. If we approach it like that, then of course, despair is something that would be a little bit less common, because what's there to despair about?

44:19 You know, if the point is to reach somewhere, so then I'm not getting there. The point is to work, then you need to work. So I don't think this addresses the whole component. There's other parts. That was so brilliant, that was so brilliant. That has got to be on a bumper sticker, because if it's all about results, so then there's a reason to despair. If it's all about work, then you've got to keep working. Excellent, michal, you put it on the sticker, okay. I'll send you the bill. Okay, perfect, I'll put it on both my cards I still have, I think I still have my father's credit card, so, but it is then also.

45:04 Maybe the next follow-up question would be that it's all about work, and then there's no end to that. But I guess, again, that doesn't really bother me, because God commands that we should work. It's God's world, after all. Am I correct in just saying it's about the work? God commands it, so we'll work until we die work until we die. It definitely will require a big shift in perspective for most of us, because we are so used to having an outcome, achievement-based perspective. As we mentioned before, it's the world we live in. We value outcome. The American dream is about reaching some end game, getting to an outcome. We honor and we value people who look to us.

45:47 You know what we call success or being successful, so it's a very achievement, outcome based world we live in, which affects our B'nai Tashem. So it's not as simple as just, you know, reading it on a bumper sticker, which is a good start, I think, michal, but it's about a real shift in perspective that that'll uh require from us to be able to see that as something that uh, as an approach that we can work with that. There's an important work that needs to be done and and you know, yeah, it's not about the outcome, it's not there's definitely more that we could talk about in terms of how to work in a way that can, that can be helpful and in a way that can, you know, help us feel less despairing as we approach these days.

46:27 But I think that's an important perspective to talk about. I have. I have a couple other pressing matters I think need to be dealt with and we can't keep you too late here. I have all night. I guess you can wake up with a. You can come. I get my two year old at a when she wakes up at 6 AM. I don't know if that's going to work, but there's a couple of matters that I hope that you can solve for me and for the rest of the world here, as we're solving the world's problems here on the late-night edition of the Motivation Congregation podcast, and that is it isn't exactly mentioned. I can't even think of any source off the top of my mind, but you had also mentioned this before we started recording.

47:13 The idea of patience in the steiging, in the growing, the idea that while I do pray I just noticed this when we have a new month, we inaugurate it with a Berch HaSachodesh. We say we should be blessed for a long life. It always bothered me that we should be blessed for a long life even though we're only praying for only one month. I'm not really sure how that goes together, but it definitely feels like the idea would be that there is some sort of longer life or this amount of this deep-rooted, patient, elongated, healthy type of idea that's behind that.

47:57 I'm not sure if that made any sense or not, but the patience idea I can't think of any sources about it, but you are a big believer in that Yerushalayim and that Torah and mitzvos and El should be done patiently. Yet El is only one month. How do those two combine for a beautiful, god-fearing cocktail? Yeah, good question. I think it really boils down to a lot of what we spoke about. You know it just makes sense to approach something with patience and it does require that shifting of perspective that we have work that needs to be done and all work happens, you know, slowly.

48:43 You don't plant seeds in the ground and then come out the next day and see whatever you planted. You know, fully blooming. You know if you planted a fruit tree, you don't see those seeds the next day. You don't see the fruits the next day. You have to be patient Whenever growth is involved, whenever change is involved. We can take a good example from the way growth happens in the natural world, and you know the farm I'll speak about is a comparison. There can take a good example from the way growth happens in the natural world. The Pasik says and you know the psalm I'll speak about is a comparison there and the way growth happens is very slowly and one day at a time, and you know it's not something that happens overnight.

49:25 We have to be willing to approach our Avodah Hashem in the same way. And you know, again, if you're a brain surgeon and you know, you know you're going in for a 15 hour surgery. Let's say you have to work with patients. You know you don't want to work with. You know a sense of. You know, bilbo or I need to to get something done already. Or you know you got to approach the thing patiently, you know. So, even though there's a lot of, like you said, el is very serious. There's 40 days. We have to reach the Rosh Hashanah and we have to reach the Yom Kippur. The smartest way to do that is to go through it patiently.

50:06 But here's where, like, the smartest way to do that is to go through it patiently. But here's where, like, the natural way that people think is that now we're saying, oh, so you should be mediocre about it, you know. Or you should say, well, whatever happens, happens, cause I'm just going to be patient. No, you know that that's that's. No, that's like again going to that other extreme. No, it's very serious. Do the work? Work like a madman? There's only 40 days. Yes, we definitely have to remember that it's very serious and that you know you have to have the chacheter, like they said in yiddish, from hell. I don't think they meant being nervous or overwhelmed. They meant taking the job seriously, but patiently. What else should you do patiently, by the way means that we have to be open to falling.

50:49 You know, sometimes the wind comes along and sometimes, you know, your, your, your. Your little plant, you know, turns this way or that way. It doesn't always. Sometimes you have to prune it a little bit, so so growth happens through falling. It's not such a novel idea, but it may sound novel. You know, shiva yipo tzadik v'kam, and I think that we take that as a b'dievot. That's why it sounds novel, like we read that thing and we have a little bit, I think, of an introduction to that potpourri. The introduction goes like this Really, you're never supposed to fall. Really, if you're a good person or you're a tzaddik, you never fall. But Shlomo wants to give you some chizuk so you shouldn't feel this fear.

51:30 So he said to you by the way, if you fell you should get back up, because you know the tzaddik can move on. That's not what it says by me in the Pasuk. By me it says that's the nature. Sheva always means that's the nature. Seven, it can be seven. That's good. Yeah, you. Always we fall. That's what we do. You know there's no perfection, and if we can remember that and we can recognize that that doesn't have to be there for a way that would say, well then we could do whatever we want. No, it's a way of not falling into despair and it's a way of being able to work patiently, because we recognize that growth includes falling.

52:12 There's no way to go through a growth process perfectly. We're going to have failures, so we need to be patient and we need to be able to get back up. And it's much easier to get back up if you have a healthy perspective about what the job of Oved HaShem is about? Is there a way to make it a healthy? Let's say I want to make a commitment. Let's talk about commitments. Let's talk about Kabbalos for a second. That's a big part of it. Having something that you do consistently every day I'm going to take on as a new commitment. I'm going to wake up on time. I'm going to wash some Nagelwasser next to my bed. I'm going to kiss the Mazzuzza every single time. Maybe that'll be an exposure exercise, even though I'm afraid of the germs.

52:53 Is it acrophobia? Is that what that's called? I don't know Whatever. Okay, forget that. I'm going to stay in my lane. It's germophobia? I'm going to stay in my lane there. Um, but how can I commit to something, stay patient with it, but yet still hit certain benchmarks, that the commitment still stands and holds water? I was hoping you would ask a question like this and I think it's super important. I don't know how much time we'll have to address it, but I definitely would like to share a few points. So I think that the commitment factor right and being able to keep a commitment, and part of what our experience tells us is that we don't follow through and our commitments don't last.

53:40 And that goes back to the despair that you mentioned earlier that we tend to feel because, hey, the commitment I made last year doesn't last. How do we make, uh, good commitments, how can we make commitments that last? What do we need to do to make that work? Just to like, uh, you know, illustrate the challenge. Just a little short story. So I mentioned I was living in a two-star after I got married and I I used to end up sometimes in a shoulder with quite an interesting eccentric rabbi who used to speak there, you know, at various times, and it was in Elul, before Rosh Hashanah, I think before Yom Kippur, somewhere in the, you know, in the high holiday season, and he got up and he basically said a whole speech about how chuvah is impossible. There's no way to do chuvah, it just doesn't work.

54:23 There's no way for us to be able to do this. I've been there before, I've done it, and it just doesn't work. And there's no way for us to be able to do this. I've been there before, I've done it, and it just doesn't work and there's really nothing that you can do about it. Because, let's be honest, we all, you know, fake our way through this time and we try and it just doesn't have any lasting impact, so there's basically no way to do it. And his only saving grace to that was like the kind of what you know his point to say okay, so what? Then he said well, at least we we, you know have a little bit of upheaval and elo, and in that way we save ourselves from major punishments. It's such an idea mentioned in the chenuch you know that, uh, that that kim kipper comes along to forgive all the various, because if everything would collect up, without it without end. It was divinus, would be so much more than the world, yeah, so that kind of like cleans the slate a little bit, but of course it doesn't really work.

55:10 And when I heard this you know the question is a burning question, definitely but I was at the same time terribly, terribly, you know, disappointed that that's the only thing that you can offer people is basically despair, you know. So that's your selling point. And it also really bothered me that the Torah is speaking about Shuvah upcoming in one of these parashias. So it's painful. It's so painful because we experience it as something that's impossible. The rabbi was simply speaking what so many of us feel, you know, and, as you mentioned, it just doesn't work. You know it doesn't work, but the Torah says it's simple, feel you know and, as you mentioned, like just doesn't work. You know it doesn't work, so, but the potato says it's simple, you know, you know.

55:54 So how do we approach this in a way that works? How can we do something with our elf? How can we do something with our yom-ne-rom? I don't have the foolproof answer, but I have suggestions okay, good, because the cameras are zooming in the microphones, the volumes are fully up and we are all ears. Please save us. We'll do my best, so I try to save myself first and hopefully, through saving myself, I'll I'll. I hope that we are in there too. Yeah, okay. So, uh, you can't start with everything, okay, so you can't change. This is also something that should be pretty obvious. Only a young boy, you know, at the start of his journey, you know, comes, I'm going to become the next Gavala.

56:37 It doesn't work that way, okay. So if we have problems in our Avedis Hashem, in our Mitzvot and our Averis, if we have certain Averis that we struggle with, certain mitzvahs that we struggle with, you can't work on everything at once. You can't approach everything at once. That just doesn't work. So what do you pick? You know, okay, you know there are some guidelines for that too. Usually, you should try to pick something that you feel is either a super hard struggle for you or a super important mitzvah or a super important Avera, or something that can have is either a super hard struggle for you or a super important mitzvah or a super important tavera, or something that can have more of an impact on your life if you work on this as opposed to if you work on something that has less of an impact. You know, sometimes people pick I'm sorry to say, silly kabbalah.

57:20 You know things that won't really have any lasting impact, but you feel like you're doing something. It. It's not really, you know, adding so much to one's Avedis Hashem if they, you know, will say Commit to cutting their fingernails, according to Halacha. Something like that. Let's say, yes, and I don't want to be. You know, people are going to ask me a story like this, a story like that. I can't answer to every story but, yes, that is something that doesn't seem to add so much, you know. Or if I'll say an extra two kapits, look to hell, and after that to hell, is wonderful, it's wonderful, but these are not. You know, things are necessarily going to create a change. Shuva means that we have to have some type of returning different, mindset different attitude. Right, yeah, exactly.

58:01 So we have to go to things that are going to be a little bit more personal, a little bit more influential in our lives, in the way we approach our latest Hashem. Okay, so that's in terms of how to pick something, how to work on something, either where we really struggle, or things that will be a real big change for us, but things that are super important, which, for so many people, they're a lot of the same things. You know, we all could learn better, we all could daven better. We all struggle with certain things. You brought up kadusha struggles. That does seem to be a universal struggle these days, not only because I see it, everybody's aware of it. There's so many movements and there's so many, you know, you know all of them. Gevaldig, you know that they're trying to create more kadusha and khalia.

58:43 So we had an asifa 15 years ago the city field there's a problem and, uh, you know, definitely most people struggle with this in some way. So definitely a lot of us can relate to areas where, in general, we all need to be working on. So how do you approach that? How do you approach it in a way that could work? What should you do? How do you do it in a way that could last? So one thing that we want to be able to think about is why we struggle in the area that we struggle, and that is something that very few people ever will pay attention to or contemplate. Why is this so hard for me? Why do I struggle with it? Let's pick an example.

59:24 Let's pick an example. Let's say that somebody struggles with davening, with kavana, even for any part of davening, okay, we're not going to tackle the whole davening. Let's say somebody says I want to be mechav in the first brach, uretz. Why is that hard for me? What gets in my way? We have to be able to think about that. If we don't think about why a struggle is hard for us, but we only think about I want to change, I want to do it, I want to learn more, that's another one. I want to incorporate more learning into my day If I don't think about well, why am I not? Why hasn't it worked in the past? Why is it that I struggle to learn more time? What's getting in my way? If I don't think about that, it's going to be very hard to make some type of commitment that has any hope of lasting if I'm not addressing what the issue is.

1:00:12 That's getting in my way. What's my obstacle? Does that make any sense, nicole? It is so brilliant and yet so simple, which is normally the shot that is the one that is the troop shot. It seems like you're addressing that. The seba, the cause, the causation, the causative factor, is what we're trying to drill down to, and we're trying to say that the reason why Michal Brook doesn't pay attention at the beginning of Ishmona Esra is hmm, maybe it's because I didn't get enough sleep last night. Maybe it's because what if it's just because I'm a spacey person or I don't actually enjoy or feel a connection in prayer?

1:00:57 Let's say it's those things. Okay, fine, so you're nodding your head for those that are listening, so great. So now I have a new problem. Well, I have two problems. One is I'm not sure which one is actually the causative factor, and number two is okay, what to do about this unknown subterranean issue? Yeah, so I was nodding because you said so many plausible factors that could get in the way of concentrating by davening. There could be somebody who's not sleeping enough. Well then, you know, that should give you some indication about what you need to be doing.

1:01:38 If you make some commitment to be davening better, you have to include with that some possibility of sleeping enough, if that's possible. Otherwise you're not making a good commitment. Otherwise, maybe this isn't. You know, if you have, you know, babies and you're, you know you work the night shift. Maybe you can't work on this right now in your life, but if you can by recognizing that what's getting in your way is fatigue, you have obviously a better way of addressing it. If you recognize I'm a little bit spacey, I tend to space out. Okay, what can help you stay focused? Would it be maybe deciding that part of your commitment to Yom Kippur is putting your finger on the first bracha, each word. Don't worry about what people around you are thinking.

1:02:20 You know your point. Baruch Atah Hashem. I tried it myself. It works pretty well because you are literally creating the focus by putting your finger on the place and the word is simply, you know, like jumping right back at you, you know. So that could help if you recognize that this is what I can do, because for me it's about focus. Another example you said, michal, was maybe I don't have an appreciation for a tefillah, maybe I just don't know what this is about. Well, guess what? There's a million sfarms that were written on tefillah. Find one that resonates with you. Find a way to develop meaning. Maybe you just have to know what the meaning of pirshamil is on that first bracha.

1:03:01 There's a lot of important words there. I don't know what the difference between hakel hagedol, hageber, hanor is. It's all the same to me. Yeah, so the truth is that you know, sometimes it's not necessarily knowing the distinct meaning of each word, but sometimes just having an appreciation for the concept which is behind the brakha, which is enough for Kavana, by the way. You know you don't have to think each word how it's different than the other. I know that that could be a little bit of a kick for people who like reading a million perusim on each word, especially when it comes to Yom HaNerim. But it's more about understanding what this bracha represents. You know what does the bracha of this mean? You know what is this about. You start with Avram, yitzchak and Yaakov.

1:03:42 You end up with maybe Goya we're with, maybe Goya we're talking about. You know the Gula of Mashiach coming. So we end up with what's this bracha about? It might be something worth thinking about. And if I get interested, if I see that this bracha can somehow have more meaning in my life now I have a better chance if I'm coming to make a Kabbalah, a commitment to work on Kavanah because you mentioned so many great possibilities by just taking a little bit of time contemplating. Why is this hard for me? Maybe davening is hard for me. Mincha is a disaster because I come running in straight from work and the nature of my mind is that I get so into what I do and there's no possibility for me to create some headspace to be able to davenish my nesre.

1:04:25 That's why this is so hard for me, or maybe because I come late into the chakra, so, oh, okay, one second. So for me, mincha has to mean I have to get to shul five minutes early just to sit a little bit. You know, that would be another example of by recognizing what's getting in my way. And we just spoke about davene, but we should speak about so many things. This davening is like a mitzvah positive thing learning something gets in my way of learning something gets in my way by a virus. There's a reason why I struggle with kedusha, yes, even if we get the universal struggle. But there's something about it that for me, makes it difficult. There's something that I am looking for. There's something that is doing for me that, making it very hard for me to just make a commitment that say I'm not going to do it anymore, I'm going to stop.

1:05:10 Well, why do you do it? What speak? By the way, this is all a Mishnah. The Mishnah says in Aviv. Here's what that means Means. You have to think about what am I losing out when I do the mitzvah? And then, what do I stand to gain by doing the mitzvah and I have to think about this shchar aveira. How am I benefiting from the aveira comparing to what I'm losing from the aveira? So you see, from the Mishnahnah, it's not enough just to contemplate the, the Hefzad Havera or the Shachar Mitzvah.

1:05:51 Now, all of a sudden, that's all that most of us do. We basically just focus on why I need to be doing what I need to be doing the skhar mitzvah or the hefted aveira without focusing on, well, why is there a skhar aveira? What is this aveira doing for me? And what is the hefted mitzvah? What is the mitzvah? What is the part that's difficult for me in this mitzvah? What is the part that's difficult for me in this mitzvah? If you don't think about that, well then you're ignoring the Mishnah's advice to how to work on your ablidah to Shem. It's the whole point of the world.

1:06:32 Even that's audacious claim, but it seems like our entire job, according to the Rambam in his book Mishnah Torah in the I believe it's chapter one or two, when he advises as to how to come to the love of God is to contemplate Torah, god's wisdom, god's world and learn about it. But it's ultimately to then say what's the cause of all this? What is the root? What's driving this? Rabbi Rucham and the Muslim sources they're very much into any only fools get stuck at just the outcomes and the results.

1:07:17 But smart people understand outcomes and the results. But smart people understand why things are happening. Avram Avinu sought until age 40 to figure out what is the cause behind everything, and going a step deeper that's leaping to mind. I'd like to take this to the PG-13 hour of the show as we tick here past midnight, so I guess we can put a little pause here for any parents that are listening or anyone else that maybe the content wouldn't be suitable for them. I don't imagine we'll get too off the rails here. But content, hopefully, that Content, hopefully that will be helpful to people.

1:07:58 God commands that. It's pretty open that to any lewdness, al-tikrav, do not even come near it, and that includes any sort of viewing of immorality, immorality, and it definitely includes any sort of touching of immorality or all of the other plethora and bevy of sexual sins, immoral sins. You're an expert in this area and I can imagine that your phone is ringing off the hook because it just seems like the Yates of Hurrah gave up in idolatry and gave up in gazella and stealing.

1:08:49 I mean, I guess maybe that's still a little bit in style, but it just seems like it's a dime a dozen for forced people that struggle with it. It's a dime a dozen for people that struggle with it. How about every single person, including myself, that you're just inundated with things that you can't even believe your eyes when you're walking across the street, that you are really even unable to step out of the way of bus advertisements, and so a real person really can feel stuck in this area. When you couple that with that, this is something that nafshoy shal'adam is something that it's a natural desire in a person.

1:09:31 This tanks spiritual growth faster than nearly anything. It is immoral. Arius, lewdness. How do we help ourselves during LO? How does a person go about it? Someone walks into your office and says I am just a well-meaning, good person and I watch things I shouldn't watch or do things I shouldn't do, and I wish I could stop, but I can't Please help me. What do you say? Wow. So very, very difficult topic to address in a very short kind of way and, as you mentioned, something that I think a lot of people can identify with, but let's talk about it a little bit.

1:10:20 So I think that, in short, a lot of it would be connected to what we spoke about earlier and this is definitely something that I address with my clients and that is that we also have to go back to what we spoke about before again, about being able to approach this in a way of work, not in a way of only success and outcome, especially as the problem is so prevalent, as the problem is so all over the place, and for somebody who already struggles with this to have the thought that I'm going to be able to completely get this out of my life and stop cold turkey and I'm never going to have any failings, that is completely unrealistic and it's not going to work and it'll only bring on despair when the person you know has their first fall or when they recognize that the you know that the challenge is too big for them to overcome.

1:11:18 So one of the most helpful things that I share with my clients is actually I can share this a short little saying that I heard based on a story. So here it goes. So Ramnoch Orlowikwa mentioned before. I heard from him that when he was learning as a yeshiva bachar this goes back probably 60 years ago or so he was learning about Vigdor Miller. I'm not sure where the story took place. A yeshiva Bacher, this goes back probably 60 years ago or so. He was learning about Vigdor Miller, I'm not sure where the story took place. Which yeshiva? I imagine it was in Rabkhai in Berlin where Vigdor Miller was the mashkiach there. And one day Rabnoach Wolowek, his chavrusa, comes in and he confides to Rabnoach. He says to you know, my Yetzirah is driving me crazy, it's just too much, I don't know what to do anymore.

1:12:03 And he was referring to this Yetzirah, the Yetzirah of Arayah. So Rabnoach said to his chavrusa he said listen, why don't you go ask Rebbe, maybe he'll have a suggestion for you? He goes over to Wigdemiller, for Wigdemiller, and Wigdemiller is sitting there and this Talmud leans over and he says Rebbe, I don't know what to do, my Yitzhak is driving me crazy, I just don't have a solution for it. So Wigdemiller looks up at him and he says don't worry about it. The first hundred years are the hardest. I'm not sure what to do with that. I've kind of my stuff. The response of the middle was saying to him was that part of what makes the challenge so overwhelming is when a person's unwillingness to recognize that this is not something that you can just solve in a moment and that you know, if you only had the right solution and the right strategy, then you would be able to overcome this once and for all and live the glorious life that you would want to.

1:13:09 No, that's not a good way to approach this and in fact, that's only going to create this overwhelming sense of this Bacher felt. I don't know what to do. Calm down, you know. Of course you have failings. Don't worry about it. The first hundred years are the hardest. Be prepared to work. It's so much connected with all everything we spoke about earlier. If you need to be some perfect person and you never need to, have, never allowed to have any failings, then you are going to feel very full of shame and despair with this struggle. But if you recognize that you need to work, definitely we have to have a way to work, and that goes back a little bit to what we talked about before creating a way to understand.

1:13:50 This is something I do with my clients as well. We have to understand why we struggle the way we struggle, but at the same time, we have to recognize that this is something that we have to be willing to work on, and if we're willing to work, not only succeed and achieve, that makes the whole approach to it a lot less overwhelming and a lot more sensible, and a willingness, then, to engage in the work, because it's about the work. What is the work? You want to know how we do the work. You want to know how, how I work hard. Is it protection? Is it filters? Is it not going out? Is it maybe committing to praying harder?

1:14:31 What is the work? All of the above. You know it's it's so hard to address in a in a short way. If the work is whatever works, you know how do you run a business. You know it's so hard to address in a short way. If the work is whatever works, you know how do you run a business. You know how do you? How do you run a business? You have to figure out what works. You know sometimes this works, sometimes that works. I think this should be run like a business lab, though. You know, sometimes this works, sometimes that works. But definitely, when you're running a business, you can't sit on the couch and do nothing. You can't sit on the couch and do nothing. You can't be overwhelmed. Oh my gosh, I have bills to pay at the end of the month. How am I ever going to get there? And it's so hard. You have to figure out some strategies to create a good business plan and a good way of working, not a way of reaching $10 million.

1:15:13 You don't have to want to be Elon Musk or Jeff Bezos in order to work in your business. This is another good example I have to have a shifa, to be like Jeff Bezos, then I'll work in my business. Otherwise, why would I get up and go to work in the morning? That's absolute foolishness. No, because you have bills to pay. There's something very serious and important that needs to get done, so you have to figure out how to do it. No-transcript.

1:16:08 You have to find something that resonates with you as to why you want to work on it, and this also goes back to speaking about commitments in general. So one point we made about commitments earlier was to find something that find the reason why something is hard for us. But now that we found, let's say, why something is a struggle for us, the second half of it is what the Mishnah called. You know the benefit, the skarmis like what can I get out of doing this? That would resonate with me. So if I decide to, for example, just work on Kedusha simply because it's wrong with me, so if I decide to, for example, just work on Kedusha simply because it's wrong and I don't want to do it, and even if I understand why I have a pull to it, but now I don't introduce any reason or anything that resonates with me for why I would like to work on this, then that's going to be a very difficult challenge because I have nothing that's fueling my drive or my energy to work, other than that I don't want to be doing this.

1:17:01 Or an example of what I want to be doing, let's say, when it comes to cabalism, I just want to do it, but I don't have anything that speaks to me. But remember, earlier we spoke about that and we said some solutions about going with something that works right. So, for Kedusha, for example, finding a reason why that might resonate. I gave some examples earlier about, let's say, work. You know, doing exercise. You know, if all I knew was that I need to do exercise because the doctor said I need to do exercise, it might fizzle out pretty fast. But if I could attach in my own mind some reason why that's important to me, let's say, I value my health and I value being around for my family for a long time and I can link my exercise with being healthy. So then, now I have a very strong reason why, even if it's 12 o'clock at night and I'm, you know, finishing off my late show here with Michal by the pleasure of speaking to, I might still change into my jogging clothing and go for a jog, even though I'm not so in the mood, because the idea of exercising resonates with me in my life because it has some importance and some meaning in doing it.

1:18:04 So, going to Kedusha. It's very difficult to give an example that will resonate with everybody, but let's give one, okay. Let's say somebody who's married struggles in the area of Kedusha. There could be some ideas that might motivate them and resonate with them to say why it's helpful for them to work on Kedusha because it adds, for example, to a healthier relationship with their spouse, which they value. That could resonate. When I don't engage in something that's a contradiction or something that's going to interfere, and recognizing that that interferes with my commitment to my wife or my ability to relate to her in an appropriate way, or I can recognize that it's about loyalty and that's something that resonates with me.

1:18:55 If I find some way to approach my commitment in a way that it has a, it resonates that's the word I'm going to keep on using I'll also have a much easier chance of getting it done. I want to just sum up, michal, like three points that I want to make in terms of commitment. So one is to recognize why something is difficult. Once we understand that, as we spoke about earlier earlier, it'll be a lot more simple to now find a way to address what we need to address in terms of the caballo, the commitment we want to make. The second point is to find, on the flip side, then well, why it's difficult. But now, why would I want to do it? What could resonate about davening for me? What could resonate about learning?

1:19:36 Why is learning important? I know now why it's difficult for me, for all the reasons that you know we didn't mention, but there could be many reasons. Okay, why is learning important? I know now why it's difficult for me, for all the reasons that you know we didn't mention, but there could be many reasons. Okay, why is it important now? Why would I want to devote another half hour a day to learning? There could be different parts of Talmud Torah, the mitzvot Talmud Torah, that speak to me personally. When I connect a part of that to my commitment, when I connect my own interest and something that would be interesting and motivate me, that gives a far more impactful and lasting Kabbalah. Because now there's a reason why I would keep it up, even come Purim time, even come Hanukkah time, because it still makes sense to exercise even six months after you see the doctor, not only the next day.

1:20:19 If it's all about getting all scared and nervous, the doctor says you need it for your heart. So you have to get all nervous, so you'll jog for a week and then you'll say it's too hard. But if you say you know what Health is important, my family's important, that could keep up six months later. Also, I connected some idea that resonates with me and therefore I could keep up this commitment and it'll keep on going. But here's the third very important point Doable, practical. This is something that I think people probably heard before. You know you can't make a big commitment. You can't commit to going jogging every single night. You know that's not going to last, but maybe you could decide, you know, two to three nights a week. You can't commit to davening the whole semester, even if you understand why davening is hard, which was point number one, even if you understand and now you, something about davening resonates with you.

1:21:04 You got point number two. You're not going to keep that up for the whole. Shemai Nesrei. You know you're not going to be able to learn an extra five hours a day. You're not going to be able to completely now with Kedusha, with a late essay, it gets very tricky. So we can never condone doing negative things, but we have to be practical about how to work on it. I could talk more about that. I know it's very late, but the third point was doing it a Kabbalah, a commitment. That's practical. If we put these three things together. When it comes to commitment I've tried it myself you can have a much far lasting impact much beyond you knowuyam kippur, beyond sukkot, even beyond kanaka, even beyond purim.

1:21:44 If you understand why you struggle where you struggle, if now you make a effort to add on something, that why this resonates with you, why you want to do what you're doing, why you want to work on this myth, but why you want to work on this avera and to make a kabbalah, that's very, super practical. That you're you do have to put, but why you want to work on this Avera and to make a Kabbalah, that's very, super practical. That you do have to put an effort, like you can't sit on your couch, whether that's 10 minutes more of learning, whether that's first brachashmanes right, whether that's doing X, y and Z when it comes to Gidusha, what you're going to do specifically, practically, it has to be very practical. Practical if you do that. Macaw, nothing is guaranteed in life. We're not perfect. We might have some failings along the way. Actually, we'll definitely have some failings along the way, but, um, you know.

1:22:25 But I think that that can be helpful it's. It's super helpful. It's. It's like I'm jumping out of my skin. Type of helpful um you're gonna try, macaw, and you're gonna. I'm gonna see you in short current time and you're gonna say to me if going to see you in Shul, purim time, and you're going to say to me, if you know some of the ideas we spoke about and some of the things that maybe you try, that you might say to me you know this is the first year Well, not you, I know you're a perfect guy, but let's just say you like it to me, purim time. This is the first time that I actually use these strategies and I'm keeping a commitment that I made from, I don't know, rosh Hashanah or even beginning of Eul Chai DeShawel, till now, because it made sense, because I know why it was hard.

1:23:07 Once I figured that out, I knew what I had to do to address it and I worked on that. I worked on it and I did something super simple. You know it was only five minutes, or it was only one brussel, or it was only this and this. And of course, that doesn't mean it's going to be easy, like, yeah, it's harder part of time, but you still have a reason to push through. Like I said, it's not easy after ending the show at 12.30 to get up and you know I'd rather go into bed maybe, but it still has a possibility of influencing me and me actually doing what it is that I'm committed to doing. You got to know your, why you got to know your. Why Is that something we can say? You got to know why you're doing it Exactly and it's so simple, but so many people never think about this.

1:23:49 All they say is okay, look at this whole list. I look at the Qidda from out of the top. I have a problem with everything and I need to change everything. So I'm going to work on changing everything and I'm going to get all nervous. I'm in kenya, raf, and then nothing works, you know, or even those who are a little bit more intelligent. So you know, I'm not going to work on everything and there's no time to say you have to make a cabal, katana, so I'll work on one thing, but then they never thought about points one or two. You know either. Why is it so hard for me? You know, and they never thought about. Well, why do I want to work on this, other than I know that God says you need to work on it. That's what the Mishnah calls the Hefzad Havera or the Karameitza. But you have to know why that's important to you. If you can find something that resonates, you have a far stronger reason to be able to have your commitment be lasting and why you'll want to work on it.

1:24:38 I remember when I first got a Y for Torah study, when, and the summer and everything else. I remember when I first got a Y for Torah study when I was in Yeshiva. You had to learn, because that's how you get a good shidduch and that's how you kind of just float through and make friends. It's cool to learn now, only less cool people don't learn. But once I got a Y which is that I wanted my family to think that I was super holy and knew a lot of Torah like that actually mattered to me. And then I also wanted to have ulterior motives. I wanted to be the most well-educated so that I could go ahead and maybe become a big rabbi and get paid.

1:25:18 And I want to pay my bills. And if I'm a bad rabbi I can only make $40,000. But if I'm a great rabbi even though it was a bad ulterior motive, when I found a bad why but at least it was a real why that resonated for me. It helped to spur a better memory because it mattered more, more energy. Hitting the gym in younger years had a why, as I wanted to make sure that the person I was guarding in basketball had a miserable life and we would win. So now there's a reason to hit the gym and there's a why there, so it's coming in. I would like to conclude with one last hopefully picking at a scab that hopefully isn't infected opening up of a wound type of topic, and that is maybe where it all begins in climbing up the hill of Chuva.

1:26:16 But we don't really need to climb the hill, we just need to continue to try our best to climb the hill and do it in a healthy, balanced way, and we're going to work really hard and we're going to do it, as you say, and we have all these new points here. But first you gotta remove your shoes, because the ground is holy. Or, if desler writes, you got to be honest with yourselves. Moshe rabbeinu's first step is you. There's a removing of your shoes. You have to have the boldness and the courage to be honest with sins, to be honest with shortcomings, to have the honesty to say I struggle here to have the halachic understanding of saying wie du, as Hirsch explains because you need to audibly admit and not quell the self-righteousness or masquerade that we put up.

1:27:12 I don't know if that made any sense, but we have to be honest with ourselves of certain shortcomings we have. But when we're honest with ourselves and when we look back, that can bring back some past demons and also bring us down and chain us to the bottom of Mariana's trench. So I think that's the deepest trench in the world, the lowest sea level. But how do we, in a very healthy way, look at our past and be honest with our mistakes and still attempt to climb the mountain of Chuva? I promise I'll let you go after this, I promise.

1:27:53 You know it's really. What does that mean? What does that mean? That means that you, you know, when a wise person asks the question, very often the answer is within the question, or a big part of the answer is within the question. So I was referring to the way you just kind of set up the question, speaking about you know, being able to be honest with ourselves. And you know, being able to do that is definitely a challenge and, uh, you know it, though that will be easier if I'm going to keep on referring to everything that we kept on saying here tonight if we can recognize that it's okay not to be perfect, it's okay to struggle.

1:28:36 First hundred years are the hardest. You know the Mesil Sishar in the beginning of his Sefer in Zahirah. He is not trying to make this particular point. He's bringing this concept of this idea for something else. But what he does say is is he brings a whole litany of examples of some of the greatest people in our history, who all had failures. He says Avram failed. When he said Bama Eda and Yaakov Avinu had failures, they were all punished brutally. Yes, definitely. So that's actually the point he's coming to make, which can open up a whole other topic here.

1:29:16 Mccall, we can have a different night open for that, if you like. I think he's waking up here in a couple hours, but yeah. But what he does say is, which you can't ignore the fact is that there was never a human being okay, never, but he's basically bringing out the point that there's almost never, at least, a human being. We're not going to be greater than Avram or Yaakov or any of the people he lists there, any of the great men or women, and therefore we can very much. And Tzadosh Hashem is written as a Sefer to work on Avai Desh Hashem. You know, the purpose of the Sefer is to help you work. And he starts out in the beginning of the Sefer saying well, avraham never made it and yakov never, you know, really made it, and everybody had failings.

1:30:02 So you know so. So what you just say? Oh, obviously he means to say, well, good luck, so you may as well do nothing. No, so get to work, get to work. You know so what? You're not perfect, I'm not perfect, nobody's perfect. If we can acknowledge that and it's easier for us to have a little bit more of an honest look at ourselves without feeling so broken, but if we feel like I'm the only one who struggles. And, by the way, when it comes to Gidusha, I think in today's world it's more widespread that people recognize it's a universal challenge. But often yeshiva bachram still will come in, you know, with the feeling that, like I, must be the only one in the world who struggles with it, you know, which of course adds to a lot of shame about the topic.

1:30:42 But if we can recognize and that's part actually for those types of people, part of the work is just recognizing that it's a struggle, you know sometimes, you know as a question about therapy. You know, sometimes a broker who's struggling with this just needs a little bit of education and just understanding that he's not the only one who is struggling with this, with this, just needs a little bit of education and just the understanding that he's not the only one who's struggling with this. To help him just be able to function better, not be so destroyed. When he recognizes that, hey, I'm normal, you know, and it's just a normal struggle yeah, that is, is is it's almost like in this interview. It gives l more hope and more opportunity. It makes it feel like we've restored here, hopefully, some elements of that there.

1:31:27 Yimei Ha'ava I found the Vilna Gones say that it's the Yimei Ha'arazon they're good, happy days. They're not scary days. They're days of, hopefully, introspection, honest introspection, and I love what you said there and perhaps we can conclude with this, as if it's this idea of I am a person and it's a challenge. The first 99 years are the hardest. First hundred years are the hardest. However, victor Miller said it and um, but I love getting to work and I clap Al-Khaid and Al-Shamnu, but that just inspires me to keep working on it and to make smart commitments based on understanding the root causes of some of the challenges.

1:32:19 Understanding the root causes of some of the challenges, and when I get myself a why and I get myself a reason to stag and I give myself a purpose and I go about it in a smart and systematic way, then success is imminent, imminent, tshuva is probable and we'll all sing kumbaya with crowns on our heads in the future paradise in Olam Haba. Is that a summary? that's an amazing summary and it sounds like such a great episode that I'll make sure to listen to it myself, because I also can use some help with doing Chuva and figuring out how to approach this, so I hope to gain some great ideas on this episode.

1:33:08 This is so good. I thank you so much for your time and any person definitely that needs or wants and is strongly encouraged to reach out, I'll leave all the ways they can get in touch with you. Hopefully it won't be. I'm definitely not going to go about putting your cell phone number, but there'll be an office number. So if someone wants to learn more about the ways that you can help people one-on-one and go about this in a certain way, highly encouraged and I'll leave that for them and thank you very much for your time. Kisiva ve'chassima tova and thank you.

1:33:48 Pleasure. Pleasure was mine.