PipemanRadio Interviews Tumbleweed Dealer

0:01 Hi, you have done to censure? Wow, crazy young Rollway, whycoume America. It's time for the Adventures of Pipe Man on W four c Y dot com. West pomp Beach is number one Internet radio station. Here's your host, the pipe Man.

0:41 M This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures pipe Man W four c Y Radio and I'm here with our next asked, who has some killer music we want to talk about? So let's walk and welcome to the show set from Tumbleweed Dealer. How are you pretty good? Thanks for having me? Oh, my pleasure. And I gotta tell you I love your band name. Every time I say it or think it, I'm thinking of my high school Weed Dealer. Actually, argusly, I gotta admit we kind of regret it now.

1:25 It's uh, you can't search it on Facebook. If you try to look us up on Facebook, Facebook will tell you that it's illegal to purchase narcotics on Facebook. Oh I'm going to show up. Yeah, it's been it's been pretty bad for the marketing techniques. We're kind of regretting the name now. How quickly did it take for you to realize that? It took like twelve years there was not an issue until we started promoting the new albums. Something must have changed with Meadow or whatever. But now it's like you can't look it up, and I'm sure they're killing our views and numbers because of that, it's been really hard to get some traction on Facebook. I think Facebook kind of just picked up on the pun finally after ten years. Like, wait a minute, I don't think they're dealing out tumbleweeds.

2:12 I know, right, I think what it is. I'll tell you exactly what it is, because I deal with that crap all the time. It's the it's the AI. So the AI is only hearing weed. That's it. That's it, and the AI, I tried to write the Facebook, how do you convince the machine you're not selling drugs? Man? I know, hey, maybe you should go a different route and say, hey, you know it's kind of legal now it is. That's the thing you should let us sell. We'd probably make a lot more money selling weed than trying to sell music on Facebook. So I know, right. And you know what it's kind of ironic is once weed starts turning legal that they're blocking you.

2:58 That's weird, exactly. It's Uh, it was never an issue before and now all of a sudden, we we we can't pop up on Facebook no more. You can't be buying no tumbleweeds. Maybe they were just listening to how great your music is and they're thinking, oh, yeah, this is definitely you know, Yeah, they're. Clearly under the influence. We're gonna have to We're gonna have to put a stop on that. Yeah. See now, now are you where are you located? Quebec, Canada. That's what I thought. I didn't want to assume, and I love Montreal, but maybe you know, you'll have some luck in the US in places like Oklahoma where they actually think you'll be actually selling tumbleweeds, because.

3:47 They're probably the first ones to wonder, why the hell would anyone buy them? They just roll around everywhere for free. Someone start dealing them. Why would I buy one? There's a bunch of my backyard, so there lost people that would buy an estible would buy tumbleweed way before someone in the Oklahoma wood. I know, you know, And I just thought of something funny, if I'm remembering correctly, in the Doors movie, when he's tripping out on peyote or whatever, and I think there's like tumbleweeds going by him. Probably. I remember in the SpongeBob movie where Keanu reeves head is a tumbleweed that gives him godlike advice, which was pretty fucking trippy to for a kid's.

4:32 Movie, that that would be great to kind of use that if you could, in like one of your videos. Yeah, we're trying to get away from the whole stoner things. I'll be honest, I said, we're under the influence. I actually have been pretty Stone Pulls sober for the last eight years or so, so we're kind of moving away from the whole stoner thing. We lean into it really hard at the beginning with the band name and that and the song titles, and it was definitely a big factor in how we were making music at that point. You get a kid, you grow up, and you start learning how to write sober exactly. You know, like so and to me too.

5:14 You know, it's funny because I'm not even in that same mode anymore like you, and I'm like thinking myself, Yeah, it's just tumbleweed dealer. I didn't even think anything of it. I just thought, hey, they just came and they were sitting around and came up with a cool name. Yeah, pretty much. We wanted to get something that show we're going for the whole psychedelic stoner's thing on one side, and on the other side, we're going for a Western, maricone spaghetti western kind of vibe. Like, so we just wanted to be really on the nose with our two main influences. But the sound kind of gruesomestan, so the name doesn't represent it all anymore.

5:57 Yeah, So tell us a little bit about the newest music News album. You know, how would you as the artist describe it and how would you describe it differently from previous. It's I don't even want to say it's the next evolution when you compare the third album, because I think it's like five or six steps further. At first, I was trying to release albums almost yearly. I managed to with the first two albums, then big delay third album, then I had a kid eight years fourth album. So if I was still on that initial schedule, this would be like my twelve or thirteenth or fourteenth album. And I feel like music wise, it is, it's like it's evolved that much. There's a big, big gap those eight years.

6:46 Really let us explore music as fans discover kind of music that we like and find ways to bring it back into the Tumblewheed Dealers sound. So where it started was very very strict, like two sounds together, like we're putting stone rock with Western vibes, a bit of post rock in there. That's it. It kept growing and growing in between the third album that had like a couple of genres mixed in there and this one, like this one's a lot wlier. I think it's like we incubated the band's sound and we managed to get like the third or fourth evolution and skip a few levels.

7:28 Nice and you know, I find that like the song Ghosts Dressed in Weeds, that to me, that describes what you're talking about. It's like, it's got a really cool, unique sound to it. And that's something I love nowadays because it seems like with technology and AI and all that, like all music's starting to sound the same. And you know, I used to hate it when the older people said that when I was younger, because it wasn't true. But now it's true. It is, it is, and it is, but it isn't in the sense that there's so much music out there and we'll oftentimes shit on technology and say like, well, what the technology and what's Spotify? And definitely like, before I say anything good about Spotify, let's start with fuck Spotify.

8:15 They're fucking me over and not making goddamn fucking dime. Fuck them. But as a listener fucking loves Spotify. I'm discovering so many different gens and music that I never even thought of looking into because it's at my fingertips. Because of that, I don't understand why we're like the bands are their sound or getting like this when they're access to all the music in the world is going like this, So why would you Why would you write something like I always say like, if you listen to your favorite band, pick up your guitar and go like, I want to sound like my favorite band, while do it in your living room. No one needs to hear it, and you're not adding anything to music, like you don't need and I'm everyone's music is valid and if you want to do it, you want to do it. But I just I don't get it. I don't get it.

9:05 I would never have one band and go like I want to sound like them, No, I want to sound like them, mix with them. But the face is doing this, and this is doing that. I slight this on this and that's for one song, next song. This is the mix. And that's always been how I approach music. I want to make something that's unique, but I don't want to make weird for the sake weird. I just want to have my own flavor and my own like recipe. But I'm not trying to feed you guy's mud and call it food. Yeah, no doubt. Well, See, to me, a great artist is about experimenting with your creativity, you know. And I find a live artists nowadays aren't experimenting. They're pushing buttons order copying somebody else.

9:46 So that's why I like somebody like you. That's like making real music, you know, And that real music doesn't have to have a distinctive sound. It has to have the sound that's authentic to you. Yeah. Think you can have a color palette. Yeah, then you can paint different stuff with your color palette. Where I still think every song has a little dumbleweed in it. There's that there's always that little twang, that little southern side. It just we recontextualize it by going like, look, the guitars are still doing the twang, but the bass is playing jazz and the drama is playing a samba. But it and the me tumbleweed is a type of melody and a vibe. It's not a jar, meaning I can play shoegaze and it's tumbleweed. I can play jazz and it's tumbleweed. It's not where other bands are like, well, we are brutal that metal, so like, yes, we can have a bit of this kind of influence, but it's still brutal. Tumbleweed's not a jar. It's a vibe and it's a kind of melody, and you can put that melody over anything. It took me a few albums to realize that that I can still have that western e twang, but I can have the bass play a funky bass line and the drums have like this completely different thing.

11:04 And that's where I like the layer stuff. I like the layer stuff. And people go, I don't really hear this influence in your music. I'm like, it's it's because it's just in the bass. If you're listening to the whole thing, Like a lot of people say, oh, it reminds me of crowd rock. Crowd Rock's my least favorite kind of progressive rock. I don't really like crowd rock. It's just people associate prog plus funk crowd rock. But no, it's prog and the guitars and the keys and the bass and drum are funking. To me, it's two things together. It's not crock rock. I'm not listening to Can. I'm listening to King Crimson and then I'm turning around listening to James Brown and the Thundercat and stuff like that, and I'm layering them and that's where I'm getting a funky progressive rock.

11:47 I love that because you know too, You made a point too. Is one of my things nowadays is the genre thing. I can't stand. It, Like it gets so ridiculous. I did a thing. I go in and I do uh radio coverage at music festivals, and I do this thing during the interviews. Is like we just do it as a joke, like if you. Were to come up with your own genre for your band, what would that genre be called? And the reason I do that is to show the ridiculousness of how micro genres and subgenres and it's. Like they get so specific. And that locks the artists in to that specific Yeah.

12:29 But at the same time, I kind of get it because right now we're living the like you're like, why does everyone do it that way? We're gonna do it our own fucking win. And then you're like, oh, this is why they do it that way. Where we're in this weird niche right now where like, oh, well, it's very proggy. There's melotron, there's a lot of the seventies five, but the old prog heads are gonna hate it because there's a guy rapping over one song. The rap people are gonna hate it. I guess there's too much music. It's hard to find find an audience. Right now, we're getting like then we're getting oh that's why they go for once. Now we kind of get it because it's hard to market it. Afterwards, we we will try and go like, oh, I think we got enough Matt Rock.

13:14 Let's talk us on Matt Rock. People, they're like most of the albums in four form, like it's still map wrong. There's more than than just time seeing issues. And then the prog heads are like, all I really didn't like that one song. I'm like, oh, the one with the guy rapping, let me is let me guess it's the guy with the one rapping right. Yeah, Yeah, that's what I thought. So we're brilliant this in between where it's hard to find an audience. You're like, this is why people pick I'm gonna play melodic folk, Viking metal and yeah, because you have a pre made audience. When you do that, it's honestly a lot smarter than whatever the fuck we're trying to do right now. But so we could call you like we could call you you know, western uh, Western rap is Western psychedelic tumbleweed rap.

14:08 You gotta you gotta throw funk and you gotta throw funking progs somewhere in there. I throw. The main two ingredients with the new album on top of what we had already built. Was we were trying to take what we already had and really then merge. I love seventies broad rock. I'm a huge fan of Camel, which is not super Unknown, but it's not like in the big top three. It's not Emerson Lake and Palmer and King Crimson and Yes and stuff. Camel's my favorite bend ever, especially the first five albums. I wanted those sounds. I wanted like the melotron. I wanted to have in our organ and stuff. But we didn't want to play seventies stuff. We didn't want to sound retro, so we wanted to take that recontextualize it and there's something a bit more upbeat but odd. We were very inspired by Japanese bath rock on that side. It's like toll bands, especially light today stuff like that, and really big fans of those Japanese bands, And we're trying to mix stat together like kind of like I was saying, put the sounds of the keyboards and seventies on top and the rhythm sections, getting this whole Japanese matt rock thing, and that was like the main recipe, and then let's see in what direction we can push that made recipe so basically cabl until we're trying to make a cablete.

15:29 I love it. I love it. And so here's a question I like to know, is how is it that Canadian musicians can form a band with not many people and make such incredible music in such a full sound that like you could have bands here in the US to have ten members that can't make create as much of a sound, so to speak. I don't know if it's a Canadian thing for us personally. We just hired a bunch of session musicians. We just took off all the limitations on our music when we started to write on the album. At some point we made a decision that we were not interested in playing live anymore, so we didn't need to be able to recreate this on stage. Where before we would play shows, which means I would write the guitars. Yes, there'd be twelve guitars, but they would happen one at a time, and I could do it with a looper. So we were getting on stage and I was recording myself through a looper, and I was going guitar number one, guitar number two and building it up. But that dictated the song structure, and we were like, fuck it, let's I don't feel like playing shows anymore. I don't care. Let's not like write the songs to play like three shows.

16:46 And that's in. So we could go four guitars, then two, then one, and that kind of opened like that whole fuck the show's mentality opened the door. They're like, well, if we're not playing shows, I've always wanted to have melodron on my music. I'm like, let's reach out to someone. We found the guy that has a melodron in Quebec, like, okay, we'll send him to I all so very much like in love with the sound of ham An organ. Oh he has one too. Find a guy with a Rhodes piano. And the only thing linking all the instruments that we used is that I loved him. That's the only like You're like, we have got horns, we've got saxophone, we've got flugel horn, there's roads, there's like and they're like, okay, how did they all fit together? They all fit together because I all love him. If I all love him, they can all go together. What the fuck? That's it.

17:36 That's that's the logic. And then I was like, well, I've always wanted to do one song with a vocalist because everything else is instrumental. And I was like Jeske Raymuss, and the guys were like, is that a singer? Is he like in a stoner band? I'm like, no, he's like an indie rapper that sings, And they're like, how does that fit? It fits because I love his music. If I wanted to fit, make it fit, and that's it, and we just kind of went all in into what we love. And we're all metal heads. We're all come from metal bands. So like at one point, I'm like double bass drums. He's like, what double bass drums. We've never done it before. We're doing it now in the middle of a goddamn song, double bas drums go full in.

18:20 And so it was just that fun, like we don't care anymore, man, We're just gonna put everything we left together her and then we're just gonna work and work and work until for us it fits. And for some people it doesn't fit. They'll be like, well, this doesn't go with it. I'm like, it does, motherfucker, it does. You just can't understand it. And you know what, I love that because to me, that's a true musician. It's like when when I started playing guitar and I still ended up sucking, but my dad I would be sitting there and I would just experiment with what I could do on the guitar. I wasn't like playing anything structured. I was just I wanted to hear what sounds I could make. And he's like, you better give that up because you suck.

19:03 And he didn't get it though I wasn't trying to sound good. I was trying to see what I liked and to me, how can you be a great musician if you don't love it well? And that's I think the difference is being a great musician, which I do not think I am, especially not as a guitarist. As a bassist, I'm pretty good as a guitarist. I'm a guitar I'm a bassist that plays guitar. I'm not a guitarist. But the difference is I don't want to be a great musician. I want to be a great composer. And that's a switch that happened in my brain when I started this project, and that's why I've been and I picked up a guitar because I was like, I don't want to have someone else's input. I want to write the guitar rist myself. I'm a bass player, but I'm I was just so sick of having to find a guitar player and then adapt to his sound and then try to well tweak it. I'm like, no, my own goddamn sound. They can play guitar good enough, but give me a guitar and ask me to play a slayer riff, and that's when you're gonna see, I am not a guitarist. I'm a fasis. I practice the techniques I needed for my songs. I can play my songs.

20:15 I can play these little tappy things. Are like, oh, that's pretty complicated. Play angel of that. I'm like that. I've never practiced picking like that. There's no picking like that in my music, so I don't need it. But I can't play a Metallica riff and I can't palm you to save my life. Like I'm not a guitar player, I'm not a good one. That's for goddamn sure. I aim to be a good composer first and a good bassis second, and that's why the bass is a big emphasis in our music. And I also try to be a good bass writer, a good thing. I went from being like I'm outplay everyone on the bass. I'm a shred so much, and I'm like, no, I'm gonna play a four note line that's gonna get stuck in your head and drive you absolutely fucking insane because you can't get it out of your head. That's my goal now.

21:02 It's not to impress you with my skills. It's for you to hate me in two hours when you're still humming that baseline driving to work right. Yeah, and that's my goal now. A difference. Some people want to be great musicians. I don't. I want to try to write good music and that's it. Like I really couldn't care more about being good on the instrument anymore. I'm good enough to write what I need to write. That's it. I plateaued on my instrument twenty years ago. Well, you know what's interesting about what you just said is I think of like some shredders, and I think they're not really great musicians, even though people think they are. They're just. They're shredding, so it sounds like they're great musicians.

21:47 There's some merit to it. It's just it's a different art. It's a different They're aiming for a different goal, and if that's your goal, it's valid. And I still do watch some shredits and go like, holy shit, the technique. But yeah, I also I probably won't listen to that in my car a lot. I'll bump something a lot more fun to listen to. But on YouTube it's fun. There's a lot of musicians like that. I find like they're a fun musician. But look at but without the visual aspect. I wouldn't really like play it in my car. I'll put something a lot patch you're on. But it's just a different like the war, like the War. Yeah I'm not that huge fan of war, but yeah, anything like that. And I was listening to Knop on Dan on the way home, so I skip. I skipped from to I get bored really quick. I'm like one grind core, one wrap, one one prog album. That's it, and I go around. But yeah, that's what I think.

22:44 That's what's beautiful about bands that create different kinds of music. Like I was just talking about an interview recently that everybody keeps giving a lot of shade to bring me to rise and for doing all this different stuff. And I'm thinking myself, I think Allie's probably bored and wants to write whatever he feels in his head. And he even said it, why I want to write the same song over and over again. Then there's nothing worse to me than listening to a band's new album and when it's over all I can think of is it's more of the same, Like even if you're write your best songs, ever if they're more of the same. On album number four, that's more of the same. I'm not gonna enjoy it as much as I did on the first one when it was new to me. So from my perspective, your new album's not as good as your old one because your old one I spent more time with, and your new one. I'll just go like, it's more the same. Yeah, but the songs are better. Yeah, it's more the same. So I'm not gonna listen to them that much, and then I'm gonna go back to the other album that I know better that hasn't been a nostalgia attached to. So you're just not gonna piauk my interest and putting the time and they're really appreciating the songs because they're not bringing anything new to the table. If I finished album is like, oh, it's more of the same. I'm not going to listen to twelve times to appreciate and trick at the cities of the little nuances that make them not they sound like your first album. But then I already liked your first album, So it makes people a lot of times

24:14 I'll finish an album and go like it's not bad. Maybe want to go back tom to the first one. That's not what you want from a new album to make me want to go back and listening to the ones from before. No, you want me hooked on the new one. You want me to go like this one has something special. That's why I have a bad like Olver. I always say, we're the Olver of Stone to rock. Hm. Well, you know. It's it's funny too that you mentioned that, because I immediately thought of one of my favorite bands who My favorite album of theirs is their first album, and they came out with a new album not that long ago. And at first, when I first. Came out, I'm like, oh, this is badass, it's going back to old school. But then I got bored because it didn't have like you're saying, didn't have that same raw feeling it did first time around. It just sounds like you know, And.

25:07 It's not necessarily that the albums it might be better than the first one, but you music does not exist in a vacuum. Your new album exists for a lot of people, maybe not the new fans, for a lot of people, though it exists in reference to the album before, especially to me. If you put out a few good albums, I'm waiting for the next evolution I'm waiting for the next step. You give me more of the same. I'm probably gonna go back to the album before because I know it better and I appreciate it more, and I'm not going to give your new one the time to sit with me as much because it's it's not offering anything new. So if you want to keep me hooked, you don't have to make these big leaps and bounds, but you have to give me a little something. You have to go in one specific direction, and a lot of times I find it it comes from musicians that love music and that love music outside of what they make.

26:05 Be guys, you're really really an interview with the Akerfel from Opeth recently and he was talking about his Still Life album and the album that I love, absolutely love still Life. I love Opeth, especially the early stuff, and he mentioned that people don't realize that, but when they made that album, they were obsessed with Stevie Wonder, and now and he makes and it's like it's this one leg part of my life where for like a year or two I was obsessed with Stevie Wonder and then we made this album and for him it's like and you don't hear Stevie Wonder in there, but it influenced him somehow, and that album has an a whole special something and it's because it represents that one period in his life when he was musically obsessed with this one thing.

26:52 It's not a direct influence, but it's there. Yeah, you know what's wild about that made me remember about IRV You Dave Grohl did talking about Nirvana and he was saying, you know, people don't know this, but that drum beat and know but Nirvana, I stole that from disco. That was a disco I saw. That and then yeah, and they showed the comparison the end he just brought in in this new context, it has this effect that's similar but different, Like it still has like it drives the song the same way as the disco song does, the way you like the the clack, the clack, the clactor. It gets it gets you pumping right into it, but instead of dancing, you're shooting up her it there. Like it has the same purpose but for a different reason. And I love stuff like that, and a lot of times that's all I'm doing. I'm not stealing specific parts, but feel like this is a weird part I'm like, ah, it's just like this froggy thing, but underneath, like I'm playing a shoegazy kind of thing.

27:54 And that's all it is. It's just two laters, and we always approached the music like that, where to me, the rhythm section and the guitars are two different things. The rhythm section has the gel, it's the beat, it's something, and that's something as a basis I hate and most rock and metal music is that the bass because you have a rhythm guitar, and because you have a rhythm guitar, the bass is kind of useless because there's a rhythm guitar. Music should be a drum in the bass locked together and then lead instruments floating over it. But you can't do that when you're playing debt metal because all the guitarists are playing rhythm. So what's the bass getna do? But he's gonna do the exact same thing as the guitar player, or he's gonna throw in a bunch of bills.

28:36 But you can't really start grooving when everyone's fast beating and the drilling thirty seconds. So that is interesting for that classic structure in that genre, and that's why I go towards these kinds of genre. I want that classic structure. I want the bass to lock in with the drums, and I want everything else to float over it. And that's why I can be like, oh, I wrote this little tag be math rock kind of riff, what do we do under it? And then me and the drummer can we could write twelve different songs to go underneath that same riff because we could go in so many directions. And then and I finally I found like a drummer the really he he he BoJack. I hate everything and I'm sitting and he's just excited about everything. So I'm like, oh, I've got this little rifts like White's so good. We could do this, we could do that. I'm like, I don't know, I got this, and I'm like, I've got this one baseline. I'm not sure it works. It's fucking amazing that work on it like super motivated, loves everything.

29:37 So like any idea I throw out there is like yeah, and we could do this, and then and the bills on there. But like on a different day, we would write a completely different song with the same guitars, but the drum and the bass would go in the different direction. So that that's what I love. It's like the song could be anything until we put a rhythm to it. The guitars are just kind of floating there like all und in resp the tempo and we can go half, we can go the same. We can tell if the guitars are at eighty, we can play at one sixty, we can play at forty. Like we just have to have a temple that that respects it. That's it. But we can bring it in so many different directions. And that's where like I'll write a song on guitar and then go like, okay, so what do we do with the rhythms, and then becomes a completely different song. So it's like two versions of me wrote two different songs and layer them.

30:26 Wow. Now that made me think of something, okay, cuz you know, I think of when Jason Newstead was in Metallica and basically he said himself he used to follow James, like he used to play with James instead of with Lars and what you just said may and it makes sense to me because I played drums for nine years before I went to guitar, and to me, drums and bass always go together. And they're the foundation of the song. And so it's interesting that you said that too, and that makes me wonder all this talk about how they had in Justice for All, they took out the bass down to very low. Now I'm wondering if that's because of Lars insecurity or if it's because of what you're saying that you know, you didn't really need the bass because you had Hatfield playing and he was following Hetfield.

31:24 Yeah, Plus, when you've got one of the best rhythm guitar players in the world, because that's what Hatfield was with all that downpick and dude was like on another level, like he's playing all the rhythms. What are you going to do as a bass player. Plus, Lars isn't giving you much with his basic beats. It's not like there's a lot to sink your feet into. And it's It's always something I felt when I played bass in debt metal bands, where I'm like, you're class beating or you're rolling your bass drums and like you're not giving me anything syncopated the sick fat and as a bass player, so a lot of times I would feel like I'm the guitar on my bass because there's no way to play babs. Wow, Like I gotta start throwing in little octave lines and stuff for boating. I have to pitch the guitar person.

32:15 So I have a I have a trivia question for you. Then that made me think of do you know who one of the most famous bass players was that was not a bass player? He was just a bass player because the band or he had two guitarists. I feel like I've heard this one, but it's not was it? Is it Rush? Is it Getty Lee? No? But you're right, it's something I wouldn't think. You're right, something you wouldn't think. You wouldn't think ever. And and because he was a.

32:56 Guitar player first, he's considered one of the best bassis ever, but people don't really know that, which is what's weird. Paul McCartney, Kay, Paul McCartney, Yeah right, that, Yeah, it drew the short straw. You know, like George and John were already guitarist, he was a guitar so it's like, okay, I'll play bass. That's and honestly, I would like to say that bass called to me or something. That's how I ended up playing bass too. We were three friends. We were all like eleven and twelve, and we were under the start of the band, and I was just like they were better than me. So they were like, Christmas is kind of en up, You're not that good. How about you asked for a bass. It's simpler to play. And then I got a bass for Christmas and I kind of ditched those guys. I went like, oh, I like this a lot better than guitar. And then I started putting in the hours and practicing and learning my instrument. But I didn't pick it like they picked up for me.

33:57 They're like, yeah, you're the You're the third one where we're a lot better. You should pick up the bass. It's gonna be easier for you. And that's how I ended up on the bass. So and I'd love to say that it called to me, but nope, I ended up on that instrument by accident or by default because I wasn't that good on the guitar. Well, see, there you go. Everything happens for a reason. Here you are when Tumbleweed Dealer not to be found on Facebook now and so tell everybody how they can reach out to you on socials on the web. Get the new album the newest album, and anything else you want them to check out. If you want you guys want to get the new album, it's on band camp. Band camps always are prefer the platform of choice because band camp actually pays their artists.

34:45 So if you guys want to buy digital media, go on bank Camp. Most of the money goes to us. That's like direct support. If you want to go on Spotify, we are on Spotify. You have to. It's a it's it's it's not a choice we enjoyed, but we are on there because I mean, at the same time, I understand it. It's the most convenient platform. And we we don't make music that make money or else we wouldn't make music that's this weird, So we make it for you guys to listen to. So we did put it on Spotify. That way, you can play it on the car and follow us on Facebook. If you can find us, good luck. If not, we're on Instagram. I'm even trying this whole TikTok thing. Can't say I haven't tried everything that got my music out there.

35:31 There you go, well TikTok. Actually, man, the algorithm for musicians is absolutely incredible. I know some music groups and musicians that I mean because of TikTok. They're playing like the major festivals and they're like huge before they even they went out and went to and played a show. I really like the duet function on TikTok. I haven't done any, but I watch a lot of them because sometimes you end up with stuff would have never thought, and like they're creating new genres. Like one guy was playing the handpan. You know, it's this kind of steel drum that you play. I love handpan music. It's good to relax to. And he's explained like all people say, like, what's the kind of stuff that's hard to play on hand pants? Not this kind of stuff. It's this kind of stuff but a little. But then all these other musicians added their part. So when he goes it's this kind of stuff. Well, you have a basis, You have a dude rapping, You have a drum, like seven people at their instruments on top of it, and now it's this weird, shreddy handpan funk rap thing and you're like it lasts thirty seconds. But I want a full album of that kind of music. I'll never get it. I stay awake at night going like I want to. It's a thirty second of music that will never be recreated that it's a genre that existed through one random TikTok combination of seven musicians that did not know what the other ones were going to do. Like the bass player didn't know, the guy was gonna wrap, the guy rapping didn't know that. So so it's like you can't recreate that.

37:02 It's like a weird That side of TikTok. I really enjoy is when when people add like they're adding or they're adding music that like someone's falling down the stairs going what the one guy adds like a little sign found like slop base, Like I love stuff like that. That's my kind. I like music with humor too. Little ship like that makes me laugh. So it think thought's fun for that. Yeah, it's pretty cool. And you know, you mentioned the duot thing, and there's one band that really worked for because the lead singer in the band kind of had the similar look, similar sound, similar actions as Jack Black, and so they stepped and kept calling out Jack Black on TikTok and.

37:49 He do edited with them. He edited with them. They went up to like a million followers, and you know and it was like so cool. You know, would that have ever happened in the eighties? No? No, And it's it's one thing like we we always lay shit on the technology, shit on like all of these new TikTok music. Yeah, but at the same time we're getting shit we could have never gotten before. Like, well, what one video I watched recently was a guy took the song girls Want to Have Fun, like from Just Want to Have Fun from Sydney Lopper, and he made it minor tea and then he made like a sad song out of it. Wow, And I'm like, this is genius, Like you wouldn't get this any time before, Like you we needed to get to this point in human evolution to have a guy go take a song from the eighties, put it in the minor teed and put it on YouTube as a sad ballad and it fucking works. Man, it fucking works. Like you wouldn't think it works, but it works. And so so I love shit like that, Like there's a good side to this whole technology thing.

38:56 There's a good side to this whole ADHD media concern ump thing where like, okay, yes, people are not buying full albums as much, but we are getting some really fucked up like thirty second videos as shit we could never imagine before. Like it's and you got to kind of follow it, like like you said, you can't be that old guy. It's like it was better back and by. It was better for musicians for sure, because people were actually buying shit, But as a music fan, like I'm really curious to see where all of this is going, and I'm really into like electronic music for that reason, Like kind of shit were like I could take music that's being made now, and if I played it for someone and like I went back in time in nineteen fifty and I played it for someone that was listening to Beach Boys, I'm like, oh, like the Beach Boys, check this out. It's called Venetian snares. They would literally fucking die. They would fucking die from listening to one song of Venetians. Their brain would not comprehend anything going on, and they would literally fucking die right there from one song a Venetian snap because you can't even fathom. So now I'm like, what the fuck's gonna music sound like in twenty fifty. I love May twenty fifty just so it can be like, oh, I would have never seen this shit come in, And then I try to think, like what the fuck are they gonna do? Like old shit's coming back, New shit's coming Like they're gonna play bagpipes over fart sounds and it's gonna sound great. I don't know, like no idea where it's gonna go, but

40:26 like it is fun to watch that evolution, and yes, like the new technology and the shorter video sometimes I do. Look, I have a lot of musicians I love, and I'm like, just release a fucking album. Release a fucking album. You're really fucking good, But these thirty second videos are killing me. Releasing fucking album focks it And like it's annoying because but at the same time, it's like some of them are better geared for videos there better geared to have a visual attached to it. Like I'm a huge fan of this one guy called the max Ostral. You ever heard of max Ostrol? No, I'll have to check that out. Look him up on YouTube. He plays fusion guitar. He's a Russian kid. Like, first of all, you need to see him play because the fingers and the stuff, but also just he is a he's probably not eighteen anymore, but he was eighteen at the beginning, looked like he was twelve. He is Russian. He's got big eighties classes and a curly mullet and just the whole thing. And he just makes these faces like he'll view these jazz legs like out and he looks like Kevin Good and just the visual fits with everything, like he's just like the ultimate eighties be but he looks like Screeched but in the eighties on coke, and he's playing like Alan and I It just it all works together, and I'm like, yes, I want him to play in a band and release a goddamn normal album, but no, instead he's making instructional videos and that's he's never released an actual goddamn song.

42:00 You just release his little licks and little videos and then he peddles his DVD. But at the same time, it's the perfect medium for him. You have to see this dude player to appreciate and just the weird techniques he does to get those sounds, like, to get to see it makes that you appreciate it even more. So it kind of works. Yes, I would want people to start buying albums again because I like to make albums and I like to listen to albums, but it's also interesting to see where it's all going right now. Well, one thing I really do love to your point about the tech and technology nowadays, is it gave artists more control and took it away from the record labels.

42:43 It's a lot of people will say, well, nowadays anyone can record good why are exactly why are you gatekeeping? Like I want as many people. Yes, we end up with a lot of shitty fucking bands, but I mean the percentage of good bands is the same. There's just more music, so more good music ignored the sitting. There's enough good music out there. You can ignore the sheeting music and take the good and you don't have to bitch about Well people can record in their bedrooms now, Yes, that's a good thing. Now all the good musicians will get out there instead of just the ones that are cherry picked by record labels and radio stations and shit. Exactly. And now it's on the internet and we can all go listen to whatever we find best about what their feedings on the radio. There's nothing bad about that. There's nothing bad about people being able to record on a decent budget.

43:37 Yeah, no doubt. And the other thing that I think is great about. Technology, music's always a good thing. It gets rid of the gatekeepers, Like you think about back in our time, you know, you can only like this kind of music and like we were talking about and stuff like that, whereas I think technology nowadays allows us to be able to enjoy multiple genres because it's just normal. It's just normal. It's it's at your fingertips, So why wouldn't you before? Like I would tape trade debt metal bands in the nineties because, like I remember, you couldn't even download an MP three, it was a real audio. It took four hours and it sounded like shit once you got it. We would tape trade on the internet and then I look up someone's list. I'm like, oh, I'll send you these five albums. You send me d S five and then he'd add like a bonus album for five because it's this obscure and that's like and I get to say fun shit, and like it's an asshole thing to do, but I get to say fun shit, like oh, open, you're into the Open. I actually got into them when they released their first album, like because I was tape trading and people were sending me random shit, like actually did discover Opeth when they just released Orchid.

44:44 I was like fifteen in Canada listening to the Swedish band that no one knew, and like a couple albums later they blew up. And same thing with Cattonia. I was into them first album because I was tape trading and shit, but it was hard. I couldn't really get out and you know, I'm gonna get into jazz and tape trade jazz, No, I was. I have to buy tapes and ship them across the world. It was super complicated. Now you're like, I wonder if I like jazz. You just write jazz and YouTube and you listen and that's it. Wasn't that fucking simple for us back then. So it's like it's normal now because you have access to it, and you're like you'd have to be just like playing dumb to go like, no, I'm just gonna listen to what jar and that's it because that's what I love.

45:25 And I really dislike people like that where they make their whole person because it's not about the music, it's about the scene, it's their whole personality. Is like, I'm a punk I listened to punk music. I hang out with punk people, and then they're like, because we're free spirits, then yeah, like you only listen to people the music that sounds exactly the same and only hang out with people that think the exact same thing is you and listen to the same band's super open minded to it. No, I'm gonna hang out with the guy who listens to everything. And I think it's like I'm the long hair. I'm the long hair in the eighties that wasn't allowed to go to punks, but I could go to a Slayer show no problem. Yet it was so similar and it was just stupid, you know, like the whole that whole I had that happened recently. I was actually a couple of years ago, I was dating the singer of a hardcore punk band and.

46:17 She she uh had that old school punk thought process, like she was very anti metal and punk's the only. True blah blah blah blah, you know the bullshit. And it's like, in two thousands, that's just stupid. It's just when you've got so much stuff, it's just there waiting for you to check it out. And I think it's fun because you see a lot of younger people getting into different meat, so and I like to discover different music. I've been getting really into and sometimes I'm like, oh, I'm I'm discovering this kind of music. I'm like, I'm expanding my I'm into different stuff. But then when you start going in the like and Reddit's about it, like you're like, I'm so far behind, like like I just got into aphx win last week, like I'm super behind on that, but I'm getting into IDM and aphx win and like butt their shin and stuff like that. And then I'm looking it up and I'm Reddit like people now are super us, Like I'm getting into this bend and this band. What else would I like?

47:20 No one's gatekeeping, everyone's being cool. And then you can see people like, oh, I'm sixteen and I just heard aphx to Win. I'm like, well, I'm forty four and I just heard aphex win. And then I want to get into different and like you see these kids getting it, like they're dis covering this niche shar from two thousand, or like they're getting in the PROG from the seventies or and it's fun because it's stuff I didn't branch out into it's always a lot older because it was just it wasn't as my at my fingertips as it is now. And I think about too when we were younger, especially me, you know, cause I'm fifty eight and basically talking about genres you're not. You have to spend are very hard earned money on an album. You weren't gonna pick an album that was outside your genre because you didn't want to not like it and waste your money.

48:11 So exactly that's why we got micro. I remember, I would not listen in this in the mid nineties. I would not listen to a band if it wasn't from Gotten Burce, Sweden in n all the good bands from I would go to my local metal records show shop and tell them what you have from Gottenburg, Sweden, and then you'd get me a CD and it would be an import for like forty five bucks or something, and then you'd play it in the store and I'd be like, it sounds exactly like the other bands that I like from Gotten Bruce, Swede, and I wanted to visit Gotten Bruce, Sweden. And apparently it's just this little role of town that has nothing special but darctual Equality at the Gates and the Flames. They were all from that one town, and I was obsessed with bands from there, and I would pay like so much to get these CDs important from there because I was like, I zeroed in unto my sound.

49:02 But like I got forty five bucks, I ain't gonna try it bad from England that I've never heard, right, So, like I was getting, I would get a lot of stuff on tape, reading and stuff. But yeah, but before I'd spend my money, I would have to make sure it's really up my alley. I really got into buying used CDs. That's where I started maybe getting more even used vinyls. That's how old I was. Now vinyls are super expensive, but I was there when they were at Bucks each and pond shops. Oh, I have my my, my, uh my violent collection right next to me, and sometimes I just rifle through a look and I can. I still have the. Sticker on the album because it was a use out and it says like one nine two ninety nine, and I'm like, man, I remember that. I thought it was such a deal. I didn't give a shit what it sounded like because it was only two dollars you see.

49:55 That's that's why if you wanted to find music, you found a way. But it was harder back then. When I got in the I would go to these pond shops and it was at the end of all these final from like the seventies. They were all breaking down and ships, so they were a buck each, but they would they would scratch like hell. But still I would walk in and I could walk out with fifty sixty new albums for less than a day's worth of work. And I was slinging hot dogs break bucks an hour. But still I was getting fifty sixty albums at the end of the day at the pond shop, which was pretty good. So that's where I took my chances, and that's where I got into different kind of stuff. Love it well, man, your music is badass and everybody definitely has to check it out and get it. And by the way, it's funny you've mentioned Gothenburg because I've played hockey on a Bondi field in Gothenburg.

50:48 I've never actually been. I've been to Europe, but I didn't get to go to any Scandinavian country, so I didn't get to see Gothenburg. I didn't get to see the Oslo in Norway or any of the legendary plays from all the bands that I was obsessed with when it was a kid. Yeah, right, And it was like there were some really from from Dunberg, from you know, Norway, from from Finland, these bands that just like I think about it, I'm like, it must be because they have six months of darkness that they can create this music like that. Because it got nothing else to do but making else. You the beer. And I also I think there I remember reading that there're just the governments and the people were kind of more supportive about even extreme music. I remember, I think it's over over at some point, we're getting government grants to make music.

51:43 Wow. So I think there's a big part of that where it was like even if it was extreme music, they were getting some forms of support from the government and the community and stuff. It wasn't as maligned as it was at that point. Maybe in the States of Canada. Well that's really cool. I didn't know that part. Man, that's way cool. Well, I hope you see a lot more of you, because you guys got some great music, and uh, you know, I'm glad that you give us your creativity because it is different, and I like different. You know, I'm sick of listen. You know, and if ever like you, guys, listen to it.

52:24 If it's for you, it's for you. If it's not, it's not. But don't come tell me it sounds like anything you've ever heard before. It'll at least be unique. If you like it, you like it. If you don't like it, you will absolutely fucking hate it, and you'll go, who's the fucking dumbass that put all this shit together? It doesn't go together, but what it'll be an experience, So just give it a try. There it is well. Thanks a lot, and thanks for being on the Adventures a pipe Man. Thanks for having me have a great thing. Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pipe Man. I'm w for CUI Radio.