PipemanRadio Interviews J.P. Krom

0:04 Hey, you live on too, ssure for see why you wake up America. It's time for the Adventures of pipe Man on W four cydi com West pom Beats is number one internet radio station. Here's your host, the pipe Man, Domber. This is the pipe Man here on the Adventures of pipe Man W four c Y Radio. And I'm here with our next guest who has some killer artistry and music music. So let's welcome to the show.

1:02 JP Crumb. How are you? I'm fine? What about you? I'm doing great because I get to, you know, listen to all this cool new music. How could it be bad? Right? Excellent? So tell us a little bit about you as an artist. You know, for all the listeners don't know who you are, maybe you could kind of describe yourself as an artist to them the way you see yourself. I am an asoloist musician. Nowadays I'm doing some kind of gotic middle and it is based on esothetic things in astrology, specifically, I'm composing based on that knowledge. What point of time in your life was it that you felt that this was really where you had to go with your life, where this became your passion?

1:57 Since I was young, when I was a teen teenager, I realized that it was it was my passion. But in that age nobody knows really about the future and about choices. But that's the time when I felt it was my passion, but it was a product of the of my environment as a child. I think it was something obvious that is going to happen in in in the adult life. Well, that's great. You have a history in your family of artistry, and I think music is artistry. Art is artistry, graphic designs artistry. I think it all goes hand in hand. And you also have your own experiences with graphic design as well. Correct. Yeah, I studied one year in another city of Chile and the country that I lived that it was born. My father was an artist. That that thing made me to to communicate those different arts in one thing, I guess in this project. And you can see it when you see the covers of my album my albums that they have a really good designs that have they have symbols of what the lyrics are and what's about all of the things that is this

3:28 project esothetic things and a lot of these things. Yeah, and say I love that because to me, album and cover art is as important sometimes as the music. I think it finishes the story, like you know, by having both the music and the art, that's the complete story of an album. Yeah, and it is difficult because you you have to be I don't know if this world exists in English current say it again, corrent, Corrent doesn't make it. It means that the music and the and the art and the graphic art they have to be in the same line. And it is not easy doing that because you have to make something that you cannot see.

4:19 You have to do it and do it. You have to transform it into a seeing I think you can see, and it is not easy that translation. Maybe it is the world. Yeah, that sounds about right. Maybe convert is what you were looking for. So yeah, and I understand because I do graphic design as well. And you know it definitely. It's funny because my personality for music and my personality for graphic design or like two different worlds. But they do melt together, yeah, because they are part of you. And at the same time, I the video clips they have to be they have to be in the same line as the music and as the the graphic art. And it is not it is something like a self discovering doing that it is you're not going to do that in the first video, in the first cover, something that is in the same line with the music.

5:21 It is something that it has to be. It has to be major. So you you have to see what you've done and and and see if it was in the same line. It takes a lot of time and you have to love at the same time the graphic art. If you don't, I think you're going to make I really like, For example, I really like a Slayer, but I don't I don't like those their covers of their albums because I don't. I don't like them, but I do love their music. But I think those covers maybe they don't like so much the graphic art. Maybe as a person that studied or maybe that a person that had a father or mother that was an artist. Yeah, you know, it's funny you mentioned Slayer because I absolutely love Slayer And funny story. My best bro when we were like teenagers when Slayer first came out, on one wall of his room, one of our friends, who was an artist, was painting the Slayer Beast on his wall from the original Show No Mercy album.

6:34 So yeah, so it was funny that you brought that up, but yeah, I mean, you know, it's interesting too if you look through the Slayer catalogue, like there's there's not necessarily always a consistency in the artwork either. Yeah, that's right. Do you know that Maya is a telen person. Yeah I knew that. Did you know that he originally wasn't even a metal head? Yeah? Yeah, I'm remembering. I questioned that some journalists made to Tomaraya and she said, what is the music do you like?

7:17 And Tomaraya answered, I don't know, rock and roll bands something like that, and the journally said, but there has they have nothing to do with the music you're playing, and Tom said, I'm just playing the songs that Jeff i'm Carey composed. Yeah, that's true, and it's amazing that one of the most well known voices in metal it's not even a metal person. And then sorry, no, you go ahead. I think that it is. So I listened to myself with a go again, so I'm going to duce my headphones. It is interesting when the music is going to to like that, because you have you add something different in that chemistry and that I think that that thing makes the difference in the result. So you have something new, and this thing that is new, it is going to be something that is going to attract more people that wants a new music. I totally agree with you because I see a lot of times nowadays if you have bands that everybody in the band isn't the same music, then there's nothing unique about that band. I think the better bands nowadays are the ones that have multiple influences from different genres and they create something unique, just like you're talking about.

8:52 Yeah, but it's it is very difficult. I think that you have to do that when you are very young, because when you're young, you can go do those things, but when you are old, it is very difficult because, for example, it's layers, it's lays, it is not going to change, and Metallica is not going to change, right, maya that it's not going to change, so they change. They have to be in the teen eighties and maybe yeah, well, it's just like when Metallica started to change. About me and my friends who were there from the very first show, we were like, uh, posers, like your fans don't want to let your fans don't want to let you change or evolve, and sometimes I think a musician, especially as you get older, you need and more experience, you need to evolve as a musician. Yeah. Yeah, And with the persons that listen music, it had been something that is very similar because when you're young, you want to know more bands, when when you get old, you don't want to listen new new bands. You just say the bands of nowadays they're not really good as they were in the past.

10:15 Maybe that's true, I don't know, but I think there there are always good songs that you can hear from new bands. That's the way I think. I think so too, I agree, And you know, I also want to talk about the fact that you know, English is not your native language, and I'm always in awe of artists like you that can, you know, write and sing English songs when sometimes some of the artists you know, I talked to them, they can barely speak English, but they can write and sing English songs, and I always find that amazing. Do you find it's different when it comes to a song and actually speak in the language with somebody. The last single that I have that is called Ula Bludan.

11:11 It is in Spanish, but the rest of the songs of the new album that is going to release on October are in English. About the languages Spanish and English, I think every language has some things different. For example, I think English is more it is a more cold language, and in Spanish it is more warmer. You can say different things with the language, and your brain thinks in a different way when you're speaking another language. And maybe you can say some things in one language but in the other. No, maybe you can say you you love a girl in English but not in the Spanish. I don't know. If you want you understand what I means.

11:56 Oh, I understand totally what you mean, because like that's why I found is sometimes songs don't make sense when they're in a different language, you know, even when it's going the other way, Like there's you take somebody like Shakira, Okay, when she does her Spanish songs, I'm sure they would not make sense in English. But and in vice versa, the English songs probably don't make sense in Spanish. Yeah, I don't. I haven't listened carefully the songs of Tekia, So I cannot so the way I so much about that, Yeah, the kind of way I look as it's not that it doesn't make sense from a point of view of the definition, but how the words flow together. Like if you take a song and change its language, even though it's the same words, you know, definition wise, the flow of those words doesn't have that name sound as it would in whatever language the song was written in. Yeah, I have an article that that he taught me English when I was younger, and he said, it doesn't matter if the words you're writing has no sense, because language is like that, it is something that is always changing. Maybe you can read something from

13:31 the past, maybe from the one thousand year, you are not going to understand anything because the language is always changing. And the thing that is very important in Indian is what you feel more than what you understand. But but anyway, I try to my lyrics are that the people can understand, and they tried they have sense, but I'm not really sure if they if they all of the songs do do that because that is not my native language, right. And you know what I do love though, is that you are classically trained, and there's most people don't realize that metal music is a derivative of classical music, and so that's why I think some of the best artists like yourself in the metal genre are actually classically trained. Yeah. Yeah, I think the like power metal and those styles are are based on that.

14:46 Maybe other snow may as kaneal Corpse, I guess, but I think the roots from from metal that they do have a lot from that. But but I think that all of the music they have the the same root the occidental music. Yeah, because we have the same root and the same tuning in the instruments. It is a heritage from from that music. And the way we compose the songs. We a song is as a structure of composing and that the structure comes from classical music, and that is structure it is in all of the styles. So you can tell saying that that all of the songs that we hear on the radio they have the same root that it's classical music because there is a structure. Absolutely so. And I also like to say that I love that some of your music has the basis of astrology in it because I just think it's it kind of goes hand in hand and I think it's kind of cool. Thank you. And I used to call this this music astro metal, but nowadays I think it is just a kind of godic metal because I think astrology it is too deep to understand really fast.

16:17 And most of personal persons they think that the your solar sign, it is the only thing that matters, and it is hard to explain so they can understand. So astrology it is going to be always in my music and sit out and all of the esthetic things. But if you ask nowadays and I say, this is godic metal based on astrology, yeah, but before it was astro metal and people were asking what is that? And I had to explain that, and they don't understand because it is not easy to understand that there's a lot of no knowledge in humanity, that it is hidden, hiden hidden headed, Yes, hidden, it is hidden because it is easy to control a person that doesn't know so much what the knowledge it isn't it isn't there? Then the ancient cultures they have a lot of knowledge. But after the how do you say, renaissance? Yes, after the renascence, all of the things change to a more concrete, maybe paradictma, but we never stop the thing that maybe science it is another kind of religion because you have the dogmas of the science, because you have the big bang. Nobody it

17:52 is sure about that, but it's a dogma because all of the most awful persons that they speak about science, they begin from the thing that big man, it happened, and we don't really know if if if it really happened or not. So it is a documents as you can say, have you falkbut that yeah, well, you know what's interesting about what you're saying is like you know, people that are into science, they deem it as absolute fact, but it's only absolute fact based on somebody coming up with something because like how to just like you said, we don't know what really happened, and it's and I find that science changes, just like you know, one day Pluto was a planet, the next day it wasn't a planet. Then it's a planet again. And so then if science is exact fact, that wouldn't happen because it would be it's a planet or it's not a planet.

18:52 There would be no changing. And do you know the reason that Pluto it is not a planet? You know, it's drawing a blank right now, but it has I think it has something to do with the sun, but I can't remember right the second tell us Pludo is ah a planet. I'm going to say a planet that it travels out of the Solar System. So the definition of a planet one of the definitions that I remember. I remember now that a planet it has to be on the Solar air System. If it is not, it's not a planet. And because of its size too, it is too small. So it is a planet or not because of the definition of someone that says that is a planet exactly, it can be anything you want in the end, that's right, And that's the point there, Like scientific formulas are based on somebody's definition. But do we know that that's the true definition? Matter what it is, you know, and nothing is an exact science and nothing is absolutely fact. Like you said, do we know the Big Bang theory happened? No, that's why it's a theory.

20:11 You know, nobody was here during that time to know it happened. And do we really know about the compositions of the planet? Right? Are we really sure about that? Are we really sure about what is true? What is not? M exactly? I agree with you, you know, sorry, tell me no, I'm just saying because again somebody decided here this is the formula, here, this is the scientific fact. But what was it based on? Was based on whatever they came up with. But maybe there were variables that weren't you know, taken into account. You know, I mean science can change based on variables. Yeah, I do believe in the scientists method. That is the way to say that, Yes, scientific method. Scientific method. I will believe in that, and I think it is It is something that you have to do when you when you need the explanation of of something. But the roots of the science are based on things that we don't know as big bank as the things of the universe. We don't really know if that thing is true or not. The history it is written days ago and they came here the how do you say this? I'm

21:41 not going to do the translation from Spanish, but I'm not really sure it is witness of God. No, I think of the hell of that. Okay. Do you know when I'm talking about these guys that are talking about God and they are part of a church, right, Okay? And I asked them, do you know who writes the history? And the man says, the men wrote the history, And I said, no, the winner wrote the history. So you have the history from the persons that one.

22:21 But what about if the history was written by the thing that the other guys. For example, what about if Hitler was widen this. Yeah, yeah, Hitler, I don't. I don't like Hitler, but it is interesting to know that he has another way to think about science. Yeah. So, so it depends on the on the winner, the thing that you're going to believe. I take it to depend a lot of perspective too, because something I came in my mind when you're talking. It's like, my facts or image of Chile, as an example, come from what I may have read or what I may know, or it's one of the countries I haven't been to, So how do I really know what's what is happening there?

23:14 Just like there's people that talk about the United States and they think they know, but they know based on what they've been told or what they've been shown. And I think that has a lot to do with history and facts because it is perspective. It is the person who's writing it. So if some it's just like when you have kids. Okay, if you were to write about your kid's childhood and your kids wrote about their childhood, they would be two totally different facts, but both people would think they were factual, but they were from different perspectives. So I think that's what makes the difference.

23:59 And you know, I believe that there are some things that we don't know about that just can't be explained, like some of the things in astrology, like they can be factual even though they can't be explained. It is with astrology, and you know that astrologer astrologers they are never agree between along I don't know between or along them they are. They are never agree with with with the things that that they say. If you analyze a person with the with the way that it is this person, you are going to find things in common and you're going to to know this this new knowledge that it was hidden. For example, all of the Chilean's persons we have something in common.

25:03 I don't know what is now, but I think if I travel to Brazil or through or other countries, I'm going to find something that is common to this person's And it happens the same with astrology. If you were born in that day, then your son your solar sign is it is Bigo. For example, You're going to have something common with another person that is Bigo. But it's not the only thing that you're going to have in common. And you're going to realize of that if you see carefully and you're going to to watch it, and you're you're going to know, oh, this is this is true, this is this is this isn't interesting. And and Jung Kar Jung made the studies of that, and he come he can and say he put psychology and he put it with astrology. And that's the reason it was where another kind an astrology. And that's the reason astrology is war is more not known now, but it is a knowledge that all of the humanity have from the ancients. Greece, the Greeks were talking about astrology, the magest were talking and was at astrology, the Sumerians were talking about astrology.

26:23 If you see all of the civilizations, we're talking about that. And sometimes in the in the years after n aescence, all of the things changed. Why because they cut out of this knowledge so that you can think different and you know less than before, and they control you more than before. I think the powerful persons they're always thinking what is the way to control more persons? That's I agree with the a million percent because I even look at this maybe an unpopular opinion, but I'm a Jew and I look at sometimes the New Testament and what people believe in the New Testament, and it's exactly different than the Old Testament. And so I look at people, I'm like, well, why is it saying the Old Testament that there's darkness and then there's debt and day? And you guys say there's day, then there's darkness.

27:25 How come the Sabbaths on Saturday for Jews, but it's on Sunday for Christians. Like somebody's got to be wrong, you know. And it doesn't even mean the Jews are right either. It's I think it's again going back to man writing these things and deciding what things should be. It happens two things that makes me think right now. The first one is about how do you talk about the names of the days. Yeah, Sunday the day of the sun, Saturday the day of Saturn, Monday the day of the moon.

28:07 Have you thought of that? And in the Spanish we have Thursday it is Whost and Whoeest it is Jupiter. Yeah, and Friday in Spanish is Bernest. Bernest it is related with Venus. So if you see, if you look, there are a lot of things that are based on this thing. And the second thing. It is the same thing that I was telling to this person that came the other day, that maybe I have a truth and maybe you have another truth, and maybe they are both right. Maybe the only the only problem it is that I want to impose. Sorry, does that world exists? Impost Yes, absolutely, I'm just reinlating. I don't know in the correct way because the world in Spanish is impone and I thought, now that was the right word. Okay, clans. The problem it is to impose your beliefs to other person because a truth, it is a very intimate intimate intimates No, I don't know, no intimate, yeah, intimate thing. Everyone has their truth. So the problem is when I say I have the truth. But because when you say I have the truth, you're saying that the other person is wrong. So that's the problems of the religion. I ask to this person do you know the meaning of religion?

29:41 And he said no, I don't know, and and I answered, it means really hard and in Spanish, it's a world in Spanish, and I don't know the translation from English, but it's something that you reunite. So religions are made for reunite persons. But in the actis they are separating persons speak God, they impose their own truth. I don't know how can different religions can be in the same place. We have a thing here until that we celebrate, and we have the officials religions in the same place. And I asked to my ask to myself, how they can be together if they are treating treating theirselves as a liars because they are wrong, because they have the truth of all of the things right, maybe that's a problem. I'm not going to criticize anyone, anyone that believes in anything that is his or her own truth. But let's have problems. That's why in Judaism, we're not taught to believe anything. We're taught to study Torah. We're not We're taught to educate ourselves and learn and form our own opinion. We're not taught to believe anything. You know, And then I look at things like the lunar calendar, which is what the Jewish calendar is. The lunar calendar makes total sense. The Gregorian calendar that we use today in society makes zero sense.

31:08 Yeah, that's right, that's right. Because these calendars are imposed on political political political things do you know the names of the months, because do you know what July has that name? Why is that because Julius I'm not produce Julius are yeah? And August do you know the reason of the name of that month that's probably a similar thing is yeah. And so in the beginning, the months they well called as their For example, October was the eighteenth months because it comes from eight in the spanischo in, November from nine that is webbing is spunished, November from eleven that is onest. So all of the months are are were based on the order that they have, but some months were changed because of these guys that were powerful. So in the end you have a calendar that is made from made by persons that have power.

32:27 Bird they are not really well as the natural cycles we have. As you say, the lunar calendar. Well, you know what's interesting. You know what's interesting? Are you're ready for this? Like the lunar calendar, which is what we and the Jews go by every month, is twenty eight days because that's the lunar cycle. What is the menstrual cycle of a woman? Twenty eight days? So that's why even that to me, that makes more sense to me. That's more scientific if you ask me, you know. And the fact that you're going by the moon, you're basing the calendar on the moon, just makes more sense to me too. And have you read about Kabala? Yes, yes, that's what I totally believe it.

33:19 You know what's interesting about the cabalas my when I first read it, I was like, oh my God, this is like all of my beliefs in one So it was like it had the Judaic beliefs in there, but then it had other beliefs that were things that sometimes Jews thought were like not good beliefs, like psychic powers and astrology and the power of your mind and stuff like that. And to me, the Cabala of all the books makes the most sense. It is very interesting. Our person from my colleague, he lets me a book of Kabala, and I was willing it and in some parts that is it made a mark on my mine. I guess that it says Satan it is not against the world, against God, Satan it is working for God. Right, That was well, I it is it has more sense saying that Satan it is part of the plan of God. That's saying that Satan it is against God, because if you say it God, it is all all powerful. How can Satan exists? Yeah, but if you say saving words force for the for God, it has more sense.

34:51 It has a lot of sense in that perspective. That's right. And I also find case a friend of mine, she owns a botanica, And I find that a lot of stuff in Kabbala is what people believe. It all goes hand in hand together instead of what most religions are doing, which is separating each everybody from each other. Yeah, I think it is. It is very interesting. A lot of the things that you find there as other things. That is, for example, that it said God doesn't exist because God it is beyond existence. Wow. There, it is very interesting within those things, it is. And you know, that's what I'm all about, just educate myself on all kinds of areas and then being able to formulate opinion. I think a lot of times religions nowadays they just want to learn their belief and I think the only way to really even confirm your belief is to learn other people's beliefs and know all sides of the story. Yeah, that's right. I was saying the same thing the other day. To these same guys. I was telling him, how do you know the whole perspective of this if you don't know about what the things the other religion says yeah,

36:24 exactly. So I asked them, do you know about Sumerian person's civilization? Do you know about what is? For example? What do you know the meaning of Bible? The world of Bible? Do you know where Bible comes? Have you waden other histories that are older than the things that Bible said? And they say they don't know, No, they don't. They just go by what people tell them and that's what they believe. And they invited me to a meeting, and I said, I invite it. I invite to you to think about the things we were talking and they say bye.

37:09 It was it was funny, but yeah, it is inter recent. You were saying that the Jewish persons, they don't all of the persons that they have this religion follow the Kabala. So are persons that are you that they believe in Cabada and the others know? Yeah? So in Jewish, in jewishm we believe there's four and there's four parts of it. There's Kabbala, which is Jewish mysticism. There's the Torah, which is the Word of God. There's the Old Testament, which are the Bible stories, and there's the Talmud, which are the rebbies educating people. And basically, we have a word in Hebrew called mid rush, and what midrash means is a fable.

38:00 So Jews believe that these Bible stories are not just fact, they're exactly what they are, their stories to try explain what happened. So unlike where the Christians take the New Testament and Scripture and say that's the fact of what happened, Jews don't believe that because we believe we weren't here. We don't know what the absolute fact is and we can't possibly understand some of it, you know, So we tell these stories that make it easier for us to understand the whole concept. And to me, that makes more sense if it's going to be a story, if it's going to be a fable to kind of explain it. That makes more sense in somebody saying this is absolutely what happened, when nobody on the face of the earth was there to know what absolutely happened. Yeah, it makes a lot of sense. And the book and reading it says the same says the author of that book. They tell that this history is these persons, they are a way to explain something that is common and human, the humans. So it has more sense that what Catholics says. They say that it was a fact, as you say, because I think all of the religions and all of the beliefs, they have a lot of things of common. Maybe the problem it is saying that it

39:34 is a fact. Maybe it is not a fact because we were not there and the history was written by by the winners. But if you find these things in common, you are going to see something that is unique in mankind. So when you're going to learn about the human being with these things, and you're going to understand than the human brains, the only the only thing that needs it is education. So would you if you are very if a person has not education, that it can be something very similar as the as the as the book said. I am remember I remember remembering that in this book they are they call vegetal I'm not sure of the translation vegetal person and the animal person. Have you read about that? No, Okay, I'm to check into that. It says that a vegetal person. It is that a person that it is just in there following things that are imposed to this person and not going to the jungle to fight for How can I say, I'm not not want to, I don't want to make a mistake with with this this thing. Maybe it is maybe it can be a bit different.

41:04 But the thing that I'm that I think it was trying to say it was that the vegetal person, that is it is a person. For example, in the work. If you have a work and you go out of the days doing the same thing, and you work for others and you're not going to educating yourself, you're maybe being a vegetal being. But if you're going to do something that is yours and you go to this world and fight for it and not if you're not sure if you're going to have money, as the vegetal person is going to have in this regular job, you're going to fight for your life. I'm not sure if I'm me and clear, but maybe you understand what I'm trying to say. It is very abstract the concept and I have the words were in Spanish. Oh no, I got I got got it completely And see I see that's why I love about this.

42:02 I think people should educate themselves and be able to form and educate opinion. And again it's an opinion because do we really know, do we know who's right, who's not right, That somebody have to be right, that somebody not have to be right. Maybe everybody is right in pits and pieces. So I think it's a great concept that we should all just get along even with our differences. Yeah, but at this at the same time, if some person comes with no education, that that brain it is not. It is as a plant, you have to give water to that plant. You have given earth, health, healthy earth, so that plant can grow.

42:50 Same and it Happensn't the same with the with a brain of a person. If you don't throw its water and it has if it has not saying earth on it, it is going to be something very similar to begital person. It is absolutely But I think education is everything, and I think human human brain and a human being is a very powerful How can I say, and the world in Spanish is empty? It is something like we have a lot of power, a lot of things, but we don't really know that they are in there. Maybe all of the things are maybe all of the persons are spiritual, spiritual beings, and maybe we all have faith in something.

43:45 Maybe there are not attaations in work, because all of the persons, all of the person, if they are going to know they're going to die or a very close person is going to die, they're going to believe in something. And maybe they don't know, they don't realize they're living in something, but they have to do because we don't know the final thing about this life. And the other way that we have is to believe in something in that way we have, and we need education and know the powers of the mind that we are all connected, and the power of the sucks and maybe all the religions they say the same thing that maybe does this world is just a world that we're passing through to another world. Absolutely, And that's also to bring us back to your music. That's also why I am always love when a musician like yourself, it's classically trained, because that's education. I'm begging to education, you know, And so I agree with you, and I think better music comes from more educated people because it's easy to write a song, it's easier to understand the formation of the music and the sound and all that when you're educated on it. And that's why I think sometimes artists get better as time goes on because they become more educated in their craft. And

45:16 so let's tell everybody how they connect you on socials and on the web and every day and check out your new music and everything having to do with with your art that they can check out. Sure, thank you. You can find me as JP Chrome is spelled JP key r O M and Spotify it is the same thing. And you have to add the dost after the J and after the the B and you have you. You can find me in all of the platforms digital platforms, you two, Spotify, Deezer, Amazon, all of those things. The Facebook, the found page of Facebook.

46:02 It is hi hike it so I can. I cannot use it nowadays, but if you can want to see you you can. And I can tell you that I have a single Day and it was released so days. I'm also ago. I guess October and October is going to be another album, another EP, another epis so you can listen it and you can find all of the things maybe that we were talking about with the symbols that this new cover has and you can find it in the music that you listen to if you listen very carefully. Absolutely, and I love your music. Everybody's got to check it out. It's been a pleasure having an in depth conversation that was full of intelligence and music, but more than music, and because I think it all goes together. And so thank you for bringing on us s R. And thanks for being on the Adventures of pipe Man. Thank you very much for the conversation. If you come to Chill some day, I can invite you. I'll be your so okay and continue our conversation here.

47:14 Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pipe Man. I'm w for CUI Radio.