PipemanRadio Interviews Bill Saxton about RoadRunner Records Documentary at Bloodstock 2023

0:04 Hey you Loveland to such sure from Wow, Wake up America. It's time for the Adventure. So pipe Man on w f CY do com West pod Beach is number one internet radio station. Here's your host, the pipe Man. This is pipe Man here on the Adventure's pipe Man w for c Y Radio. And I'm here with Bill Suckston. Nice and tell us why you're here at Bloodstock. I'm gonna tell you, well, I'm here at the minute. I'm filming some of the history of road on the Recuse documentary series through interviews of various eyess, a lot of bureau, a lot of pit footage, and generally having a good time. Nice. So, did you come up with the idea of the documentary? Yeah, I can get John the full story. It's quite yes, Yeah, all right, Okay, you're at risk of being bored to tears, so stop me when it gets boring. So in the pandemic, I was going I was going a little bit stir crazy, as many of us were, and I was playing a little too much video games, a bit too a Star Doo Valley, a bit too much Counter Strike, and I sort of th I need to generate some sort of I used to use this energy in a different way. And it actually occurred to me that no one had come out with a book about road on the Records, no one had done a documentary series, no one had really talked about it outside of Liner notes that's wild. It's mental in it, it's absolutely mental. Such a legacy. So I just thought,

1:38 fuck it. I was doing myself. So I started writing up what I understood the history to be. Maybe the idea was maybe a book or something like that, and I put it up in a few blog posts on my website and my chance, I was watching a stream with another UK journalist and I started talking about this thing that I'm doing, this Road in the Records blog series, and Michelle Kerr, who's here today from cousin OSTROPR, she DMed me and said, okay, so when this is finished, let me know, because I worked there for seventeen years, and I was like, ah shit, it's got to be good now. Yeah. And everybody that was anybody worked at road Runner exactly man is and that the whole end of the story is, if you used to work at road Runny, you're now work in some sort of very successful independent outfit, whether it's PR, and you know anything like that, it's fascinated. So since then, since Michelle gave me that sort of remit of you know, I'm going to see this once it's done, I was like, oh shit. So then I started escalating a little bit and I started inviting all the old artists to zoom interviews and started a podcast series called The Temple of Blair off the back of that, and so once I got through about thirty interviews, I've turned that into a documentary which was History of Road and Records eighty to eighty six, and that was pretty well received me at the small fry as YouTube any channel and things like that. But we went down into the granular detail of people who worked in the office in the eighties, all our case vessels, the founder of the label, and all these old bands that even the ones that small

3:10 bands are not a lot of people have heard of. We're all in this little mini documentary that created and I put that up and then an author, dentist would you believe, got in touch and said, right, stop what you're doing, stop working around. I'm going to fund a production company. Just do this properly. And that's where we are today. So now I'm here with cameras, broadcast quality cameras speaking to the great and the good about this wonderful corporate outfit which didn't have had that such an impact on mel Yeah, and you know, so, yeah, it's like amos everybody I used to deal with people in the States, and all the pubblists I know in the States, almost all of them worked at road Running Records. It's like, yeah, if you're in this industry, you worked at Road Running Records.

3:55 Yeah. Yeah, it's it's the great I mean, it's the I've heard this term before and people can compete me on it is the last great independent label, is what I heard of what it's kind of like the Moniker they kind of go by, you know, and it's it's the impact it's had on the metal scene is just and hard rock scene for that matter, is without question gigantic. And how did you find that people feel about it being no longer? About it being no longer, Well, it's it's still there. It's still there, but it's obviously a subsidiary of One Electra and things like that. It was, Yeah, I mean, there's there's a lot of reverence for that nineteen eighty to twenty and twelve periods. So you're fern to twenty twelve when one are bought out of the rest of the label and a lot of people got fired. And now it's sort of since then, it's gone on in a still strong label, but not of many people work there. It's got a different kind of feel to it. You know.

4:54 It's the thing we got to understand is from eighty two twenty twelve that was like a family of people. It was a house full of nut jobs that made it work. And when that house stop ceased to be something, something was missing. I'm still doing great stuff. I mean Slipnot and Tribune still banging out great albums. Gojia is still banging out great albums. It's still got a strong roster, motionless in why creeper things like that. But there's there's a rag tag element to that previous era, which is the one we're all familiar with. You know, that's what this documentary is focusing on. You know, I've known sich a press person. Is that. Yes, for the slip Knot to the world, it's still great, but what made it great was the smaller bands that beat even a slip Knot that became slip Knot you know, like type of thing that I don't know, correct me if I'm wrong. It doesn't seem like that exists anymore. Yeah, I mean, you're not going to get a sepultari of story rightmong you know it. And that's partly down to the culture which rodern existing now. I mean back then it was literally ta demo, demo, demo, demo, demo. It was all world of mouth, it was all tape trading.

6:00 It was a different to get a band from their mum's garage up onto a stage like in a different country. It took the legwork of a lot of people, and it took a lot of inspirational moments of people are going, I can see where this band is going to go. I can see what's going to happen it. We need to elevate this and we need to fund it. And that's what road Runner was great at. And that's the that's the bit that's kind of been lost, you know. But that's again an industry thing rather than a road run a thing. What's them in interviewing these artists, what's what have you found or feelings of the artists about how it's changed or you know, what it is today. From their perspective. M from their perspective, it's very much there lacks of family value these days, there's less of a family value and its But you say that in the staff as well, like a lot of one of the most common things I hear about the Christmas parties the road run. The Christmas parties were the ones to be at. Like and in terms of all the industry events, the rod in a Christmas party in New York was the one that had to happen.

7:02 Oh, you had to attend. And there's so many stories to fall off the back of that, like stuff that happened on so and So's desk, so and So's car got the tires laid, that, all these things, and it's those kind of moments which we don't really have anymore, you know, Yeah, totally. Do you think not eving and the independent label being an independent label aimore has changed the industry drastically? I think it hasn't in a number of ways. I think it's really hard to quantify the success, right. I mean, I was speaking to gate Creeper yesterday gate Creeper in terms of their monthly listeners on Spotify. It hasn't, haven't risen dramatically in the last few years, but their profile is huge. There are big bands.

7:46 They are a big metal band, So it's really hard to sort of say what's successful or not. Right. Yeah, that's a massive factor, I think. I mean, back in the day, it was just okay sales, first week sales, that was and the Nielsen numbers that was the thing. Now it's people think it streams. It's really the merged numbers. It's really the ticket numbers and the attendance. It's hard to really drill down, at least from my perspective. Anyway, in doing this, you're there viewed artists, you're there in viewed publicists. Probably people work their business. Yeah, have you interviewed listeners that weren't working there or an artist? That's why I'm here. So once I'm done here, I'm gonna have a beer. I'm gonna take the gimbal out into the field of bloodstock and I'm gonna find people with the type of negative T shirts with the Wednesday thirteen murder of slip Knot stuff and say what's your experience with this? Oh dude, there was a guy in the shuttle bus that took me, brought me down here, said I've got a Slipknot story. I had to pick Slipknot up for Download festival, and they were all on Massive are very polite young men.

8:43 And then when I got them later they had the masks on it it was fuck this, fuck that, and I told them no swearing in my bus. I know, were very apologetic, very kind young man. It's stuff like that, you know, because that's that's how we learned about the impact of this, of all the artists on that label, right. I love hearing that. And I've found the difference from a press perspective, like I used to interview all the Roadrunner bands and it would be like I would email and immediately get something set up, and now you're kind of lost in the corporate environment. Corporate environment is the It's the most common term used for late two thousands into the two twenty tens. Yeah, yeah, exactly, But again it's not necessarily indicative of road Ron or alone. It's a wider industry thing. Especially it feels like in a way like on the spectrum of labels, massive majors, tiny indies, the middle has kind of been erased in a weird way. Yeah, yeah, I mean so it's either you're gonna get the laptop labels and the ones that are slightly bigger, and then we just go jump straight up to you're not gonna be at to speak to anyone because it gets lost in the void and the corporate void. You know, you know, it's interesting about that. It's exactly how the world is, like I don't know about here by my country, there is no middle aim where it's either here or there meaning I or there's no middle anymore. Yeah.

10:01 Yeah, So it's signed in the times. It's a sign of the times. And again it's just shocking the with regards Roader and which is I think it's unquestionably like the biggest one of that ILK, but no one's recorded it. No one's recorded the history of it. Why do you think that is? I don't know. I really don't know. I can't that's a that's a question that I kind of answer about roading the records. Why no one bothered to do this? And just to be clear as well, I'm a nobody. I am a nobody. I'm not a filmmaker. I was forced into filmmaking because no one else was going to do it. I mean, I mean, you could see the stuff. I've had to lug all the way from the car park to make this work. But it's it's just it's weird. There should be someone out there. This is bang of TV's territory, right, This is the sort that they should have been on their roster. In my opinion, it would be perfect for them. Have you talked to thunder Flicks who is here too about getting your documentary on there?

10:50 Oh? My word, Sam Well from thunder Flicks like what we spoke first, like mostly months ago now. He came on the podcast as thunder Flicks was launched. He was one of the first ones to say it's got a home here and I said, yes, it does. That's the when it does come out, which it will, It'll just take a few years, you know. I love it. What do you think is the best thing you found out from doing all this and the worst thing you found out? Oh? Okay, So it's so there's so many there's so many, man, okay. So the best thing I found out was so as as a function, Rodrener was largely a distribution from a distribution and licensing function for Europe, right, So like there was a connection with music for nations megaphor.

11:33 So you might have a Metallica CD that has rodrennor on it if it's in Europe, and that function never stopped. So out there somewhere in the Netherlands there's a Shinto Konna CD with the rodron A logo on it. Constantly kept this like licensing operation going is what kept the lights on it in a big way. Yeah, it's fascinating stuff. But in terms of the worst, the worst, the worst, the worst, I'm trying to pick my brain on finding something that's not letagious, not too damaging into anyone's brand. Yeah, right, No, there was a lot of stories where Rodren might pull the tor support from someone while they're on the road. There's one that's regarded when the Life of Agony were on the road and the toss spot got pulled, so they ended up bunking with the type of negative guys. Wow, you know there's things like that, and again it's just the business. But yeah, Rodren has got it. It's it's history is a lot of highs and a lot of loose How many people have you talked to that want to see an independent label at their level come back into the into the realm just like we're talking about, there's no middle How many people have said we want this back, every single one? Why? Because it's tangible, it's vivid, there's usually the footfall is such that everything that's every function that Layela can can perform, and it's best is when it's done among friends, and when it's done when you get that work of people that can't expand past a certain amount and it can't be too small that they can't function. So that little

13:05 middle ground is the sweet spot and that's what everyone wants these days. Yeah, absolutely, And that's what we're here to do. We're here to elevate the artists and also try and inform the consumer, Like what can individuals do to try and push the push the fringes of the genre and elevate and make sure that everyone's getting their fair due. And I think it's really that's that's the endpoint, and trying to find that middle ground and push people towards it. Do you think between everybody you talk dude doing this documentary, that somebody will come out of woodwork and do something about that and create another middle The best thing I can do, The best thing I can do is inform No I guess that's the agenda, right, we all want to elevate the artist who all want to empower the outlier genres and create something commercially viable. Who bets to ask them Roadwinner? But that's that's the agenda. It's just trying to explain that in an academic how did rodron to do this? And hopefully off the back of that someone will come out and go, oh, it's just a matter of like building a house, inhabiting it with nut jobs like Rohdrona was, and then pushing the art that way and pushing the products and recruiting the bands and pushing them, you know, pushing them in a localized sort of manner that's sustainable and that can be everyone gets their fair do you everyone get their fair pay? You know? I think? I think I hopefully the documentary will inform, advise and encourage that kind of activity. So, of all the people you've talked to, all the information you've gathered from

14:39 your perspective, how would you compare the road Runner of them two? Besides the licensing in Europe to a megaporce or a metal blade? How would I compare? It's a too question because the ins and outs of it are kind of interesting. So Rodren I call their earlier days, especially if for talking Metal Blade and Megaphorce back in ninet the eighties, Rhodrin and I call it low and wide right. Lots of bands, not a lot of massive investment, so it's like, you know, like a few thousand dollars to get your first album out or something like that. Megaforce was the other way around. It was like very few signings per year, but there was a lot of push behind it. And then Metal Blade is sort of somewhere in between a Metal Blades, a different beastcut. It was very much like a It was a fans label for fans in a way away. Rhodron was founded by a forty year old opera fan so and a Dutch guy at that, so it was a lot more and a music industry veteran at that. So they came in not knowing about metal, but knowing about the business and knowing what was working. So it's really different. It's actually it's easy to compare on those terms, you know what I mean. And Johnny Z himself for Megapors, he came from like a mineral trading business, you know what I mean.

15:50 It's still a business guy at heart, but also a music guy. You want to hear a metal Blade story girl for him? Back in the eighties. The reason I'm here to is because of Metal Blade. The reason mean is me and my friends used to go to this record store in the valley called OZ Records. There was a store clerk there and you probably know part of this by the way I see you smiling. And he used to or you heard me say it over the weekend, and he used to hand us albums when we walked in. Listen to this, Listen to this. And we went to all our gigs and bought all our albums based on Brian's recommendation. And I saw him a few years back and I'm like, you know, what you did back then was the most genius marketing plan ever.

16:44 And He's like, I was just a record store clerk. But that's the point. You weren't just a record store clerk. You were, but then you could find your audience, and you could promote your label to that audience and put it all to all the pieces of the puzzle together. And because and that's why, because of Metal Blade is why I became such a metal head, and why I'm here seeing with you today. Had a conversation with Eric Jerman. He's like a he's like an entertainment lawyer, works with like asking Alexandria bad Walls a few things I happened. He was telling me that one thing that seemed to work in the eighties and ninety well in the glory ars of the record industry and doesn't quite fit today is there's not as much a law l o r e In artists these days, whereas back in the day, all things stemmed from Bryan's legal all things stemmed from monte con It there was like a genealogy you could track, and because you could track it and there was like a family tree esthetic to it, you can kind of it felt more special, like if in nineteen ninety if someone said, oh, we're a Bay Area thrash band, you start go aha. I know, there's like a there's like a lineage it, there's the big fob, but there's also like Defiance Atrific, there's all these other bands are there, and that makes it feel more special, and that's what engages people more, you know what I mean. And that's I think that's another difference between those days and these days and Brian's a big pold all right. And and to your point, the Metal Massacre albums exactly first time I ever heard Metallica sides going to their show, but I mean listen to their like I heard them before that by going to a show, but it was Metal Massacre and was

18:18 like all those bands on the Metal Massacre albums were like that's how I would find out about the bands, you know. Or I remember very specifically one day walking in and you know, OZ Records, Brian would get in all these import albums. He handed me this album by this band that it was from over here, so it was an import album and was considered and probably wouldn't be considered today the first black metal band, and that album like changed my life. At first, it scared me to death because there was nothing like that before. And that was Welcome to Hell by Venom, right, And I remember bringing it home because back then wasn't like now where you can listen to a track. You had to buy the album and then you listen to it rather you liked it or not, because you just spent money on it that you didn't have. And I remember listening to a woman like back then, you listen to albums, and you went through the whole experience of looking at all the artwork, reading the lyrics. I can remember so visually in my head, like literally getting scared reading the lyrics. I'm like, what the fuck, I can't be listening to shit, But I couldn't stop listening to it either, Yeah, yeah, And then it was like it was all over after that. Something about that whole spending your money on the record. The thing that we lock today is the scarcity. The scarcity is

19:49 will also drives that engagement and drives that law. You know what I mean. When you go to the when you go to a gig, to a bond that you don't know if anyone likes this bond on on, and you find it's a pot room, then that's an energy that a real kind of electricity to that sort of moment. And I think that's what that's the mission, right, that's the mission. We've got to create the scarcity and make sure that all the great bands aren't slipping through the net, right. And it takes people with experience and takes people with know how how to administrate that metal and now to administrate those genres and those acts and things like that, and push it to where it needs to go. And I think the net analogy is the right one. Don't let anything slip through the net get let the good ones be promoted and pushed. So do you think a Metal Blade record who's records, who's still around would be able to fill that gap to bring that metal back again? There's no reason why not. There's absolutely zero reason why not. I think to facilitate that, we need to create some sort of environment where we know we're not going to miss anything, and we're in theory, we're there with spot Fight in theory with their Apple music and in theory with that, but there is an oversaturation and there's a lot of goof in the current market that's not you know, there's not going to deliver what Metal Blade all road Runner could do. So there's just no reason why not. Maybe maybe we just need like an army of a and our guys to go through everything. We've just got ship ship ship great, ship ship

21:22 great can put it through the system, you know, yeah, right, So do you think the reason road Runner got swallowed up or the person running road Runner would allow it to get swallowed up is because that person in charge of road Runner had division that if they didn't do that, then exactly what we're experiencing now would happen. I can tell you exactly. And this is the in fact, I've changing my answer to the previous one. This is the worst thing. This is the worst thing, and I can I can say because the no one comes out badly on this. So it's two thousand and one, all right. Two thousand and one. Road Runner has gone through a phase where it's trying to expand beyond metal. This is like the mid nineties. There's been some success in the bands like Blue Mountain and Kevin Salem and things like that, but you know, the core roster still fear factory is still Machine had Decide is still on the label and things like that.

22:17 But two thousand and one comes about and the labels hitting some financial trouble, right, So he goes out to the market and says, I wonder if anyone would like to buy a Steak and road rum. Incomes IDJ Island def Jam, and in July or two thousand and one, the deal's finalize. They purchased fifty percent. I believe it's fifty percent. Don't quote me. I think it's fifty percent. And then all the financial troubles are resolved. What happens four weeks later, slip knots Iowa. What happens six weeks later Nickelback's silver side up. So the worst thing I've found in this documentary is had Case held on for a few months more, it could still have been an independent label today. That is so into indicative of any business, you know, like as a businessman, I was hearing you say that, and that's you have to as I put it, stick around to the finish line. Yeah, it's something Brian actually telling me, Brian Slagel from mel Blade he's never met one person who sold their label and was happy with it.

23:22 There you go. And I could believe that, Yeah, because almost every time you said see the people buy it. They see it. Yeah, and they take advantage. Yeah, so they know what's gonna happen next. It's kind of cool. I mean, this is why, this is why I'm fascinating Again, I could boy you to tears. But at the same time, right, Nickelback is Monty Connor will say this as well, the A and our guy for Rodren and a Spengali of all things metal. Nickelback was also the best thing to happen too to Rodron and to metal in general, because the money Nickelback brought in allowed the likes of Monty Ron Berman and another another and our guy, I might get the guy to sign kill Switch. The money that Nickelback Briant allowed them to experiment. So that's why we have this glorious era saw in the two thousands of metal call bits of death call lots of experimentation. So at the same time, Yeah, I DJ saw the potential they were buying slipknot where I DJ. They didn't know they were gonna get Nickelback nice, so it kind of all works out and not nice. Yeah. Yeah, but that goes to my point. They you gotta see the vision. Yeah, and when you're in financial stress, you don't. My experience, my whole life is like exactly that people stopped short of the finish line because it gets stressed out by the financial and they want to jump ship and they're always jumping ship as the ship's about to take off. It just happens all the time, and it just allows the monsters to take over. Yeah, because they can lose the money. They don't

24:55 you think about it though, I'm like, once road gonna how it's it's day in the law. People were let go the cross pollination into the rest of the industry, like Montecno's at nuclear Blast now might get as essentially media michell and kissedon a Causinostra pr over here. Mark Palmer is now at nuclear Blast. So well, that talent is still out there, and the know how is still out there, and it's still active in the industry. It's just not not in that crazy little house that Case built in the nineteen eighty you know. And there's a lot of people I know in the US, like Amy from Adams Splitter yep, you know, perfect example, Jamie Roberts from for the Wind Medium yep. Everybody I deal with over there. It seems like I said in the game, it seems like everybody came from there.

25:41 Yeah, you know. It's a shame they didn't all band together and keep it there. Hey man, that's an idea. We should can put that around today, right, you just do like just a vertically integrated label all of you, all of your jobs, start this new thing. Yeah easy see, because maybe all those combined forces, yeah they could compete. Yeah yeah. But at the same time, I wonder if they'd won. So I think like a lot of these guys, they've realized that the glory is are now there. That's something you always got to realize. Sometimes we hold on to something in my industry it's very big. Like, yeah, I call it w k R ANDP and Cincinnati syndrome. What that means is there's this seventies radio, the seventies TV show called w k RP and Cincinnati And I say it all the time that shit don't exist any more. I have people that whose shows with me and they're like, bla, la la la. I'm like, that doesn't exist anymore. It's gone. Would you like a road in a fact about this? Yes? So see what is it called w RP? And say, so this was there's a DJ on that there's a connection with the big disco, the disco Johnny Fever, Johnny Fever disco sucks. This all leads to the disco boom of the seventies.

27:03 So having in the disco boom in the seventies was PolyGram, which was like the big major label. Yeah, and Casa Blanca. Casa Blanca's hemorrhaging money. Everyone's riding around on elymos. PolyGram is building more vinyl pressing plans when no one's sucking buying it. You know, it was absolute inflation. The disco bubble burst. This is what happened in the aftermath of the disco bubble bursting case vessels, the guy that founded Roadrawner. This is in seventy seven seventy eight. He was fired from RCA, which is where he's working, and then he went on to form Roadronner. And because of the lessons he's learned in the disco boom, he realized the way to sort of retain the money in the record business is in the performing rights, right, So this is where the you sign on, sign on the dotted light. If the band signs with a label, the label owns all the recordings. That's where it comes from. Yeah, yeah, exactly. And then you know, how about you take stuff like back then and basically like as an example, do you think that there's there's a structure of metal for a while by Grunge also helped road Runner have its demise. Oh that's a good one. I don't think so. I think I think what happened. What grunge did was it was basically a dog whistle for all the majors to go, oh, we should throw a money at this alternative stuff, right, And when that sort of died of death in the sort of late and nineties, they went

28:37 all right, there needs to be another al center thing, and that was new metal. So through all the money at that. I mean, if you look at like the new Metal roster, there's a lot of bad bands in there, but they all had great videos, they had a great marketing, and there was like they all had great media and things like that. And then when that went and died down, it was into emo and things like that. But rodron I kind of sidestepped all those things. They didn't have a lot of great new metal artists. They didn't have a lot of great emo artists. They were trying to specialize and metal and hard rock. Yeah, that was their market thing. I think the thing that I think Rodrin is not really dead, it's just changed. It's it's just you know, it's more way more corporate. And what that was was simply was owned by IDJ. They sold it onto Warner Wanna saw more money coming in and they went, okay, that's all like that's like Nickelback and I was still channing out albums getting platinum records and fucking diamond records. They just bought more of it and they just went into an ultimate ownership, and then the normal corporate thing happens, which is, we can be more efficiently, guys, let's cut ahead off the snake and let's just operate on a small on a small football. It's no different than radio. Corporate took over radio. Anybody you talked to before corporate took off over radio is all they ever say is how they killed the fun of being in radio. Yeah, turned it into a business. Yeah. And it basically destroyed the independent radio station. Yeah.

29:56 And that's the same with any com Same with retail. Yeah, same the awesomotive, same with anything that once you get, once you get, once competition law doesn't kick in and you have these giant monopolies, then it all becomes the race at the bottom. Yeah, And that's just what happened. So what's your biggest hope from this documentary? I hope he gets fucking finished. Mate. Well that's a good one. Now, if that's finished, what's your biggest hope? Oh, well, you know, well, I hope it's I hope people like it. I hope people learn something because it's it's a very academic story about like the music business and how it evolved and how metal had its role in the music business. It's just really convenient that the story also takes place with all these characters, all these people sinking merciful face, separt stereotype or negative. All these people are all involved.

30:44 So I hope people like it at the end of the day, and I hope it does help people inform people that you know, signing on the dotted line with the label isn't always the right thing. The game is totally changed since the eighties, and there's a lot of good shot out there that we can't let slipping through the cracks. I need to provide an infrastructure for it. That's what I hope the documentary. Do you think it enabled companies like Spotify and that where it kind of changed the whole way people listen to music that maybe on purpose eliminated that middle area. Yeah, it took the it took the specialization. Now. It took a specialization now because everyone has a platform, all the ship stuff is also allowed to allowed to rise the same level as all the good stuff. I mean, that's not necessarily a bad thing, because I mean it was I speaking to Yes, I can't remember, but someone was telling me about Hellhammer. Hellhammer recorded when they couldn't play their instruments properly. So there was an arc there. And maybe there's a lot of opportunities in so of the oversaturation that Spotify is provided, but it does make the job a lot of I mean, like the analogy I use is like, who's your favorite band? Is it metallic? Who's your favorite artist? Right? So there are ten I'm gonna I'm gonna shock you with this. There are ten bands in the world that are better than Slayer.

32:02 For you, even that the better than Slayer, but will never hear about them because they were allowed to rise at the top. Yeah you know what I mean. So that's the middle ground. Spotify allows everything to go at the same level. But without that expertise to take those bands at ten, you know, those ten bands that are better than Slayer, curate them and deliver them to the market, we're just gonna be stuck sludging through the ship. Yeah, you know, we need the expertise in there. So what haven't we covered in this air view that people need to know about the industry, about the documentary and where we're going from here. So Rodron it gets about I'll start on like what people should learn about Rodrenna rodren it was it was an absolute powerhouse. Everyone acknowledges it as an absolute powerhouse. Or people need to learn is it was an emerging business model, right, I mean at this time you had, like you Sabbaths and maidens and metallicas and oh maybe not metallograher at this stage, but they were aligned to the majors.

33:00 There wasn't really a lot of independent metal things going on, especially from an infrastructure perspective. So the story of Rhoder and It is really the story of an emerging business model, and he really has like it's a three part structure. It's like stars a new hope. All of the action happening in the eighties, Empire strikes back, all these things still happen, a bit of a bumb out ending in two thousand and one one they have to be bought out by IDJE and then return to the jail, maybe not return of the Jedi, but then still return of the Jedi. Yeah, good bouncy fund for another ten years until it all goes to ship I guess, right, that's the story of road on a very interesting, very sort of like analytical look at how the industry is evolved. Definitely in terms of the documentary, just keep right out for it. Got on Instagram to history of Roder on the records. I'm looking for camera people, anyone that wants to jump behind the camera while our conduct interviews in the UK by all means shout out.

33:57 But yeah, it's an ongoing project. And I used to I used to be quite protective of the information to like around how I'm doing it, but now I'm like, how fuck it. It's a good you know, if you want to notice something behind the scenes stuff, I'll see some foot it's just let me know. I'll show you. As anybody either and viewed through all this time, I think it was a bad idea for you to do this documentary or didn't like the idea that you're demist documentary. Yes, you can't end them. I don't want you to name them. Yes, can you tell me why? No? Okay, it's all great vine stuff. As some people who have like absolutely not happy that it is happening and want it to not happen, but secause it's likely the great Vie I don't know what it is. It's probably it's probably a miscommunication. It's probably a misunderstanding.

34:43 People might think that I'm from roading it. I'm not from roading it. I'm completely independent. People think it might have an agenda. It doesn't have an agenda. It's a rather it's a rather agnostic. Look at Rodron, it was as a function. Yeah, there are some people out there. They do what they do, come around though, they always come around. It's like anything right, Yeah, well that's pretty cool. It's cool you're doing it. I've had a lot of experience with roadrunners, so I think it's a great thing. And thanks for being here at Bloodstock to add more to it. Can't wait till it comes out, and thanks for being on the Adventures of plate Man. Thanks Bunty. Thank you for listening to the Adventures of plate Man on W four CUI Radio.