Louder Than Life: How Prison, Punk Rock, and Surfing Shaped the CODEFENDANTS Band

0:04 Hey, you're listening to The Adventure. And I'm Pudlin. On W4CY Radio. This is the Pipe Man here on The Adventure's Pipe Man W4CY Radio. And I'm here with... The co-defendants. My name's Sam. My name's Chesky. Yes. Very excited that you're here at Louder Than Life. Or as I'm calling it now, hotter than life. We're changing the name. Hotter than hell? Oh, my God. I live in South Florida. I can't wait to get home to cool off. We live in Las Vegas. And I'm like, I don't care about the dry or wet heat. This is different.

0:46 Oh, right. Exactly. If it was this temperature in Vegas, it would be a cool day. Right? Exactly. And it seems like it's been a pattern for me because I was at Incarceration, Ohio. Super freaking hotter than Florida. It's called incarceration? Yeah, yeah. You know about it? No. It's another Wimmer Festival, and it's at the Shawshank Prison, man. We should be on that show. Yeah, this guy just got out of prison, so he should. Yeah. Yeah. I go in there, and I go lay on the cot in the prison cell, take a selfie.

1:27 pretend to sit on the toilet, you know, just raised a little. Any women in the future, co-defendants belongs at incarceration. Absolutely. I mean, we got out, but we're still down to go return for the festival. Trump's about to open up Alcatraz. We're from the Bay Area. We live in Vegas now, but they're talking about opening up Alcatraz. I've heard about that. Shut the fuck up. Like, what is wrong? Well, listen, he's ruining the Everglades because he opened that Alligator Alcatraz. His uncle is a... What's your uncle do? My uncle is the supervisor of the Everglades. Oh, really? It's Pedro Ramos. Wow. And he's had to deal with all this. It's crazy.

2:09 You know what's fucked up about that whole situation, too? Like, besides everything, okay? But right near us on Palm Beach Island, there's this restaurant, Piche. Like, everybody knows about it. Famous chef who is Hispanic. He got picked up from fucking ICE a while back and put into Alligator Alcatraz. The only way he got out was because the whole town of Palm Beach and Trump wants their money. They made a big fucking stink and he got out. Our whole band has been affected by this whole ICE situation.

2:50 They had multiple bandmates going through the process of ICE. One deported. Back to Venezuela. So most of our bandmates actually lived in South Florida or from Venezuelan and Brazilian descent. It's fucked up, man. And two of them. The brothers, they were living out in Hollywood, Florida. And our brother, Danny, who still can't be over here yet. Because Chino, our drummer, just got okayed to fly. Because he wouldn't fly out of Florida. I don't blame him. If we're playing fucking music, you shouldn't be fearing for your freedom, bro. So stay where the fuck you're at. It's so lame. But our friend, Danny, he ran a vegan fucking restaurant.

3:35 In fucking Hollywood, him and his brother Wanchy had been talking to the fucking passport trying to get their citizenship for like six years. They both spent like 15 to 20 racks trying to do it. And then Trump came in and just derailed their whole system. And they did that shit where they're like, hey, deport yourself and you might be able to come back. I go to Costa Rica. I go to Mexico. I used to live in Costa Rica. Where at? Oh, well, I've been all over. My favorite is Nosara. Yeah, I worked at a surf camp in Malpais when I first got divorced. Nice. And then I went over to Nicaragua for a minute because Nicky had to do the passport run. I went to Nicaragua. The surfing's a little brutal there.

4:15 I don't even know how to swim and I was a surf instructor. Really? I swear to God. I would just tell them that there was a surf... I worked at a surf camp that these Germans and Swedes owned And so I got divorced. I knew the guys and they told me to come out. I'm like, yeah. And one of the guys didn't show up. So they put me as a surf instructor in the morning. I was just cooking food and shit. I was like, I can do this. And I would just make him jump up like point. But I've never surfed in my fucking life. I don't even swim. I almost drowned as a kid. I hate it. When I get in water, I get like cramps and shit. Wow. I'm like terrified of it. Wow. I barely fucking shower. I swear to God. I don't even drink water. It gives me indigestion. Really? I wake up and I drink Coca-Cola or fucking...

4:56 And the Coca-Cola doesn't give you indigestion, but the water does. No, well, me and him live. Together, so, like, he just had his kids, so he's been off with, like, and, like, you know, raising the seed now in another house, but he still has, like, his LaCroix's in the fridge, and I'll go in there, I'll, like, hungover, and I still think he's in his room, and I'll be in his fridge, and I'll... But, yeah, no, it's fucked up. But I would make these people jump up on the board because they would show up at nighttime. And, you know, you can judge people. You know, you do this for a living. You can kind of tell people's barometer. Yeah. I'd be like, if you're a fucking dick, when I wake you up at 7 in the morning, you're going to be jumping up on that board. So you're not going to be able to paddle out to the wave. Right. But if you're cool, like the second time you jumped up, I'd be like, look, I'm hungover.

5:38 I had a whole spiel. I'm hungover. I don't got time for this shit, you guys. You guys obviously are fucking surfers. Right. And if you're not, you're a natural that I've never seen. Right. And I'd push him in a little white water up to my knees, and then I'd be able to do that out there. And don't breathe when you go underwater. You'll be good. Yeah, there you go. I still get emails from people. This is like 15 years ago. I still get emails from people like, we're in Bali. We're surfing. Me and my wife. Thank you so much. Nice. I'm like, shit, I lied to you, man. That's so cool. And I have surfed in Bali. And I have gone out with instructors. Because when I go somewhere new that I don't know. I'll go out with an instructor because they know the lay of the land. They know where to rock. Well, you know that there's a fucking reef right there or.

6:20 Don't go over it. Stay to the left. I was in Rincon, Puerto Rico and I went out with some chick and literally she goes, where like that table is there, she goes, if you start drifting towards there, you better paddle as hard as you can away from it. You know, or you will die. Yeah, it'll smash you. So if you're stupid, I don't care who you are. If you're talking, you go, I know. You don't know the lay of land. You don't know what's under that water. You don't go to those waterfalls and just go jump the fuck off. You better jump off to the left. Because there's a rock right there. Under the right. You know, we've seen it. I've seen a compound fracture in the jungle. A fucking bone sticking out of a leg.

7:02 Helicopters are not going to be deployed out there. No. You're going to go down a bumpy fucking road that's washed out on the back of a fucking four-wheeler if you're lucky. I've had an experience, and I love Costa Rica because of this experience. So, I had a major, I had a minor, minor heart attack surfing in Hawaii. Really? But then the Hawaiian typical American health care doctors fucked me up and charged me $ 400, 000 to almost kill me because after my year of recovery, I celebrated. I went to Costa Rica, and I was on top of a 10-foot wave, and I had a massive heart attack. Shut the fuck up. So when the ambulance came, which took a while... What do you mean the ambulance came? Hold on.

7:45 It was basically... You're hanging tense, sir. Okay? There you are, toes on the nose, having a beautiful Puro Vida moment. Right. And then you just go... Oh, it was like... How do you know? The only thing... How did I know? I didn't know the first time. The second time, it was the most crushing pain I ever felt in my life. In your chest? In my chest, my arms. And I just remember saying, oh, fuck, not again. But you surfed in. I surfed in. Shut up. That's a legend. And then a bunch of Ticos and Ticas ran over and helped me. If I was in Florida, they would have just stepped on my ass. We got another white man having a heart attack. And they called the ambulance. When the ambulance finally did show up, it was not much bigger than a tuk-tuk. Okay. Oh, yeah.

8:31 And they only had the thing to put on your finger. That was their... Oh, yeah. Yeah, he's having a heart attack. And like you said, you're going through the dirt roads, bumping. I did that same experience, but I was on this couple that lived up in the jungle. This Tico couple had built a slab of concrete like this with an overhang and a fucking vert ramp. And then on the right side of the vert ramp was like their kitchen bathroom. And on the left side was their bedroom. Right. And they had like an acre of jungle. They got for like seven grand or something. Right. And so I'm skating there and I break my arm. This is how I got fired from that surf camp. One of the instructors had a girl coming in and it was like very advantageous for him.

9:12 To be like, well, you can't. So whatever. I was cool, bro. So I had a broken arm and I had to get on the back of a fucking like a Honda 250 and Through the jungle down there and I've got like this fucking, it ended up being just like three fractures in my fucking forearm. But the whole way it felt like my arm was just like flopping. They took me to, there was no hospital in Santa Teresa. I've been there too. They have a vet. Yeah. So they took me to the vet office and they put me in a concrete room and they fucking, they all left the room. And they like jogged out this motherfucker. And I just had my, and I started thinking, I was like, aren't we supposed to be wearing lead? Or something, you know? And then they hit the button, and I felt it in my body. Like, it went, and I was all, oh, that ain't good.

9:59 Oh, shit. That ain't good. And then the guy was like, yeah, you got three fucking fractures in your arm. He's all, so you can go to San Jose, and they're going to run your ass because you're a fucking white boy out here with a broken arm, and they're going to get you for probably a couple grand. He's all, or. You could be a fucking grown man and go to the franteria and go get yourself some plaster of Paris and just fucking solidify that arm. So I'm like sitting there drunk on fucking Florida, Konya, like dipping these fucking bandages in like this fucking, you know, modge podge wrapping my arm, you know? And it was like the worst rap ever. And, Wow. I don't know, man. See, I have a better experience there. Okay? Wait, wait, wait.

10:42 But we've got to get back to the heart attacks. They take you in. That's what I'm saying. What do they do for a heart attack? Well, what they did in Hawaii is they put a stent in. But they fucked up and misplaced the stent. So during that year of recovery, it was floating out into my main artery. And by the time I hit that wave, it had healed over. And my main artery was 100% blocked. And. Like, it was everything you could imagine. Like, the other one wasn't. This was like everything you see on TV. But what happened next. Was so great. Was this the left arm or the right arm? Left. Cause I have like anxiety problems, but like I figured out there were panic attacks and I feel like my fucking arms, and then it starts getting worse.

11:23 Cause you're like, well, which arm is it? Yeah. Why is this extremity going now? But you're just like, you know, I just, but you know, it's a heart attack when it happens. I felt, yeah. And you have your own symptoms. Like now that I've had it twice, I know signs that it's a heart attack. I got to kick back on this blow right now. Right. Exactly. Yes. You know, which is funny. I was doing an interview at Vakin a couple months ago. And I won't say who it was, but one very famous punk and one very famous metalhead have joined forces, old school, like older than me. Okay. And after an interview, they were hitting bumps, and I was like, I haven't seen this since I was in L.A.

12:03 in the 80s, okay? It was like total L.A. 80s shit. We moved to L.A. With Fat Mike, and we were fucking living there for a minute. We were doing a podcast with him. That's why I moved from San Jose before me and him moved to Las Vegas. And it was the same thing, man. And I don't give a fuck. It was Fat Mike. Right? You know what I mean? It was like in the morning time. This dude's doing fucking beepers out by the pool. Well, he's got like. A fucking vinyl mask on and a straw coming up out of the pool. And he's like underwater. What is that? Dominatrix has a fucking heel on his head. I'd have a talk with one of these dominatrix that live with us. I was like, I get drunk and I'll say some dumb shit and get myself into a situation where But the day before, I was painting his house, and this guy runs out of his house because he has a working dominatrix hair.

12:52 Squeaky. And she was fucking known to be brutal. She's like this big, but she worked at the ER in LA. And then she would go to like different major cities to work in the ER. Into triages and shit. And this dude runs out. He's got a fucking thread needle out of his fucking lip. And both his hands, like praying hands, are sewn shut. And I brought my friend from San Jose helping me paint. We're painting fucking Fat Mike's house Neapolitan. Okay? And this guy runs out and he looks at my buddy from San Jose and goes, Pop! Help! And my buddy looks down and looks at me, looks at him and goes, we can't help you. And so I saw that and I told this girl that night around the fire pit, you know, I'm like, look, I do dumb shit, but I swear to God, if I ever wake up fucking with needles and shit in me, I will fight you like a man. You know, I was so scared that was going to happen. Like, Fat Mike was going to get me, like, hopped up on vodka.

13:48 Oh, my God. And the next thing you know, here comes the glove, you know? Oh, my God. It was a wild time. Hollywood was a wild fucking time. Hey, listen. I was born in New York, grew up in Jersey, and my... Connecticut. I was 12 years old. My dad comes to me and goes... meet your new mother, pack your bags, we're moving to California in three days, you can't tell a living soul. I was pissed. But now, we wouldn't be sitting here if that didn't happen because... What year was that? 1980. The beginning of fucking L.A., basically. 100%. I saw the whole decline of Western civilization. Listen, let me tell you something. I Oh, let me tell you something. I was a long hair. Long hairs couldn't go to punk shows. Punks couldn't go to metal shows.

14:44 I remember one time I went to a suicide show before they crossed over. Before they crossed over. And the suey boys are in the fucking circle pit with switchblades. Oh, yeah. I'm out. They were like a full-on gang, right? Oh yeah, they were originally a gang. Suicidals. And then I remember... like gang members scene. Well, Suicide was a Venice gang. Yeah, it was a gang. Yeah, totally. And then, and then I remember Posers on Melrose was the place to get your spikes, but you couldn't go there if you were a metalhead or long hair because it was owned by punks and they didn't allow it. So I had my punk friends. I'm like, do me a favor, take me a poser so we could go. They knew the owners. I figured it was, I was in. We go in there. We're not even there 30 seconds and, And my friend comes over to me and goes, we need to leave. And I'm like, yeah, what do you mean? I'll tell you outside, we need to leave right now. We go outside and like, the owner said, hey, we're doing you a courtesy because you're our friends. Get the fucking long hair out of here or we're going to beat the piss out of them.

16:07 And all I wanted to do was spend my money at the store. Geez. Well, I mean, I was born in 81. So by the time the 90s came, I was a skateboarder. But the early 90s, there was only two skateboarders at my school. And that's why I tell people I was a skateboarder when it was called Hey Faggot. And a bottle would come out of a fucking car and hit you in the fucking head or like on some shit. And then you would like throw something at them and that truck would stop. And they would get out and beat the fucking brakes off you. So we had to deal with the cowboys. We had to deal with the gang members. And we had to deal with jocks. So it was like there were three of us in the town. It was a. That's why I always thought it was stupid. Like the jocks were bullying and beating the shit out of both the metalheads and the punkers. Why aren't we joining forces to fuck them up? Well, you know what joined us? Forces, right?

16:54 It was the fucking iPod shuffle. Right. And I'll tell you why, because back in the day, like it used to be like, there's the jocks, there's the metal heads, there's the burnouts, there's the fucking preppies. The Hessians. And you, if you were a Hessian, you didn't listen to fucking Dwight Yoakam. Right. You know, you didn't fuck around with fucking some fucking like electro fucking French fucking house music. Cause it's got a good groove. Like you listen to your shit. Once they started like making CDs where you could make mixes and shit, people were like, oh fuck you know what's this GBH shit what's this right right and I had the thing because I was a skateboarder so we had the. Fucking videos by the way yes we. Had you know when fucking Bones Brigade came out fucking 411 that's how I got all of my music shit I was listening to Jawbreaker Wu-Tang Clan fucking everything across the board that was tight you know like right now I can't really talk too much about it but like I'm helping score this shit for a video game that they're doing. And they've got, like, all the rights for it. So, you know, they made Tony Hawk Pro Skater.

17:55 Yeah, yeah. They're doing that with surfing. Nice. And so, but they started showing me, like, the shit. Because I just want to score a movie. That's all I want to do. Love it. So, I got to start here, you know, whatever. But they were showing me this shit. And I'm like. Besides skateboarders, I think that surfers probably have more of a musical palette. Yeah, yeah, yeah. You know what I mean? Like, they're a little more in tune with, like, different shit. Well, especially you got the old school OC punk, man. Yeah, man. Like, I do those festivals there on the beach. I'm like, they should do a festival where you're, like, surfing. While the bands are playing. I mean, we do it with fucking Warped Tour with, like, the skating and the FMX and all that. Yeah, exactly. Think about the last surf video game there was. TNC Sport.

18:38 Right. Nintendo. Like, nobody stopped to do, like, a Kelly Slater. Fucking pro skater. I know, right. So, these guys are on it. And hopefully, you know. Nice. I love that. I remember, too, like, I lived in Agora. And you couldn't get to the valley from Agora anywhere. Other than by car or walking. I used to ride my skateboard on the shoulder of the 101 and it would go down the fucking hill. I used to run across a 101 at night to get to my girlfriend's house when I was 12 and have sex on a fucking dirty pile of laundry. Oh, there you go. Her brother's name was Buddy Maxey and we called him Bloody Maxey.

19:19 Oh, man. What's up, Crystal? I would be keeping up with the traffic, too, because the fucking hill was so steep coming down into the valley. Was that the one they used in thrashing? I don't know. You know that movie Thrashing with Josh Brolin? Yeah. They have the L.A. Massacre, the downhill. Maybe. Is that the hill coming down from the 101? Because I lived off the 101 my whole life. Sam Martin's on the 101. Nice. But yeah, same shit, bro. Skating down the freeway is some shit. No doubt. And the Borg shape. because I'm, like, going, like, 60 miles per hour because it's so steep. Or, like, 35. It's cool. Well, I was keeping up with the cars. I used to work for Thrasher. I lived in San Francisco. The fastest I've ever gone was about 42 miles an hour, and that was fucking crazy.

20:03 Yeah, it's light speed. No doubt. Scary. You don't... Because you're just going like this all the time. You're no foot down. Yeah. You're going, and you're either going to die or you'll make it. Exactly. On the 101, a little more sketch. Yeah. A couple pebbles. I remember also, like. We didn't have the bowls then So you just jumped off a pool Off the roof of the house Into the pool without water in it You know I'm about. To drain our pool I just bought a house in Las Vegas And we fired our pool guy Or the pool guy quit or something And I'm like I'll do this shit And I'll be out there all day I'll make this fucker just pristine by night time We go on tour I come back two days later this fucker's algae.

20:48 And I'm like, oh. But you can't drain your pool during the summer in Vegas. Because the fucking wind and the sun is so intense, it'll chip your concrete all the way up. Yeah, it'll fuck it up. But now it's going to be winter, so I'm going to drain it for the first time this year. Nice. And see if we can skate it. Because it's about six and a half feet. Yeah. And I cleaned it so I could feel the training. That was our pools back then. Pools. Yeah, boom. We had the pools. We would sneak in people's backyards. Yeah. Killing their fucking pools. I've been, many times I've been on bucket brigade at six in the morning where we went and fucking found a pool, showed up, sitting there bucketing it out, and the homeowner comes. You know, they're like redoing their house. And I've been sitting there with like Pete the Ox watching the shit pump. And the homeowners will show up, and we'll be like, oh, yeah, look at the construction shit. But, yeah, we work for WebCorp. The city called us. You can't have water in the pool if you don't live here.

21:40 It's an insurance thing. And they're like, okay, okay. They'll drive off. I'm like, well, get the fuck out of here right now. We're, like, dumping water into their new foundation. Wow. Some of my best memories is from, like, 6 in the morning with my boys, like, Bucket Brigade. Out of pool, you know? Like, sprinkling kitty litter and shit. Have you been on a surfskate yet? No. Okay. So, I have, like, my longboard. And I also have this... It's a... What is it called? Like a kawaii stick or something? Yeah, it's like a fucking paddleboard. Like your paddleboard. Full body workout. I have my trickboard. And now I have a surfskate. I love how they call it a trickboard now.

22:21 Right? It's a skateboard. It was just a skateboard. But now you have to differentiate, you know? And... But the surfskate, it's made so you can practice surfing on land, and the trucks, they bend all the way down. Yeah, it's got that. Yeah. So I've never, ever worn pads or a helmet in my life, and I took my surfskate out the first time, and I ate shit. How old were you? How old were you? A couple years ago. Okay, yeah, so that shit hurt. Yeah, exactly. So I called up my daughter, and I was like... Yeah, I think I might want to get a helmet and pads.

23:04 I fucking told you, old man. Right? I used to work for Thrasher Skateboard Magazine in San Francisco. I remember that magazine. Yeah, it's still going. Rest in peace, Jake Phelps. But we went on a couple of pool trips like that where we'd be skating pools. I never wore pads. And I went up to go over the death box and I went back and I cracked my head. Didn't even remember cracking it, and I just walked out into this field of nothingness, and they just said that I dropped my pants to my ankles, just started pissing and puking. Wow. And I woke up at my house two days later to kind of like, are. We going to go skate today? They're like, bro, you already did. Wow. I was like, okay.

23:44 That was when I started being like, maybe I should kind of focus on music. Speaking of music, maybe... Fuck all that shit. You got enough music, bro. Yeah, since we already have gone over time, maybe we should say something about the co-defendants. Yeah, we're in a band. Yeah, we're called the co-defendants. I was in a band. I'm in a punk band called Get Dead. that was on Fat Records and Fat Mike produced our albums and then I had met Chesky at Gilman Street in Berkeley and he was playing and when he was in prison the tattoo shop I worked at one of the guys was a big Chesky fan and we did flash art to put money on his books So when he got out, I went and saw him. And the first time I saw him, I was like, I got to make music with this dude.

24:27 Nice. And so I hit him up. He came to Cali. I wrote a song. And then he just never left. And we've lived together for the past four years. Nice. I love it. Here we are, Louder Than Life. And how did it. All hook up with Fat Mike? Well, he was actually painting Fat Mike's house that same time that he was talking about. And he had already organized a studio session with me to guest on a Get Dead song. And I loved Get Dead's album, Dancing With The Curse. I was like, hell yeah. I flew from Puerto Rico, where my family's from. I was with my father in Puerto Rico. They live in San Juan. My grandmother passed away now, but I flew straight from there to L.A.

25:07 Sorry. And we had the session. But he wasn't, I don't know where you were, but he was like, go to Fat Mike's. I get there and I'm just like, hey, let me into the pool. Fat Mike's there in like a dress, like a latex dress. And I was like, hey, I'm Chesky. He's like, I know who you are. And it just became a friendship ever since. Nice. And we recorded without him for the first four or five songs. And then we were hanging out at his house a lot. played the demos, and he was like, stop, I want to be involved. Nice. He wanted to put it out originally and produce it, but then he was so involved.

25:48 Yeah, he caught a case. At first, we were like, we don't necessarily want to be on Fat, whatever. We want to do something different. He loved the demos, and he had caught a court case, and we talked.... We talked, and I said, you know, if Mike pays for your lawyers and gets you out of prison in this case, and, you know, takes care of us, let's do this. Nice. That Mike just said immediately. He said yes. That Mike immediately, I was like, okay, well, because he offered us his money, and, like, Chesky's all, let's go take a walk. We walked around his pool a couple times. Chesky's like, ask him to pay for the fucking lawyers, and tell him we don't want to fucking.

26:31 What was it? It wasn't an advance. A development deal. And then he had to explain that we were walking around the pool again. He's like, develop means they got to pay us some money to keep doing it. Advance means we got to pay it back. And I'm like, so I went in there and Fat Mike coked out, you know. And I was like, hey, so my lawyer in this? And he's like, yeah, no problem. And then Chesky goes, they just give us fucking this much money for these dumb songs? I was like, yeah, Fat Mike calls me three days later. He goes, what'd you do? And I'm like, well, it wasn't a skate ticket, bro. And I had three felony assaults with three intimidation of witnesses. Oh, my God. I fucking tuned some dudes up in West Hollywood. Thank God we're fucking heterosexual men. You know, but it was the last night of Pride Night.

27:12 And Chesky's bass. Player and her girlfriend took us to this bar where they were, like, known for roofing people. And somebody took my chick's purse. We went outside. I got into it, and they arrested me. And they caught me. And, like, right off the bat, for, like, five years. Like, you broke someone's nose. Like, you're done. And Fat Mike's fucking lawyer, I didn't go to court once. Nice. She knew the fucking DA of L.A. They went to lunch. She traded her a couple things. She traded her a couple things. That's the way it goes. That's how Mike got involved in the project. So, about, we had recorded four or five demos. And then he got deeply involved. And we were basically moved into his house for. For years. We lived with him for years at that point.

27:53 Then we moved to Vegas. I have everything. That's the thing I give the most kudos to Fat Mike for, for fucking taking care of your case. I've known Fat Mike for fucking 15 years now. And when COVID happened, I was staying with him. And I watched all these motherfuckers show up during COVID being like, Hey, Mike. Give me money. Give me money. And finally he's like, for what? What do you want to do? And this one guy was like, I'm going to make you a bench with a chainsaw. And Mike's like, you don't need to do that. And this guy went out there. I was painting his house. He starts sawing this fucking log in front of his house. And I grew up, my grandparents have shit in the redwoods. So I know how to use a chainsaw. I'm like, you're not using that right, bro. You're going to break that chain. He's like, no, I'm not. I'm like, well, I'm painting right here. So that sawdust is definitely going to break my paint. And the guy's like, I know what I'm doing. Broke the chainsaw, left with fucking Fat Mike's five grand, never came back. And the chainsaw was stuck in that fucking log for the rest of COVID.

28:53 And it was like a perfect example of like how. People use that, dude. No doubt. And from the beginning, me and this guy were like, we don't want you to be the Fat Records guy like paying for this band. We want you to be in a band where you don't pay for shit. Like, just be in the band, motherfucker. Let's do it. I mean, he paid for a lot of shit. But that's because we gave him that respect of being. But anyway, enough about music. We gotta wrap this up. We gotta wrap it up. We got shit to do, brother. I'm gonna finalize this with... Fuck Ice. Fuck Ice. And we love the co-defendants. I don't even put ice in my drink. That's the only ice we have. But you know what? We need some co-defendants to fight annihilate ICE.

29:42 We work every day. At this, brother. There you go. Every day. They're going to put me in jail for it. I'll tell you what. I feel much safer in Costa Rica, Mexico, Puerto Rico than I ever do at home. People ask all the time, what's the scariest place on earth you've ever been? Fucking America. No doubt. Hands down. It was great meeting you, brother. Thank you so much for your time. If you're ever in Las Vegas, come look us up. We got the place. Will do. Will do. Thank you so much. Appreciate it, guys. Thank you for listening to the Adventures of Pikeman on W4CY Radio.