Chris of Savage Grace Discusses New Album Underworld, Authenticity, and Staying True in Metal

0:19 This is Pipe Man here on the Adventures of Pipe Man W4CY radio. And I'm very excited about our next guest. A very old friend of mine who is an amazing musician. And they have some new music. So let's welcome to the show, Chris from Savage Grace. How are you? Doing great, Dean. Good to see you again. Good to see you. I was just at a festival louder than life this weekend. I was talking in one of the interviews about that show way back when that first crossover show at the Sun Valley Sportsman's Lodge. You remember that one? Ah, Sun Valley. Who was on that show? That was when first time punk and metal together at the punk side with COC, Prepepper. It was Savage Grace before they crossed over and the Descendants. And then on the metal side, it was Possessed, Dark Angel, and you guys.

1:15 I do remember that show. Yeah, I do. That's pretty crazy. That may be a crazier show than when I knocked out my teeth. I don't know that that show when you hit the ground was pretty intense. Yeah, it was for me for sure. But great memory, even though bad result, but great memory. But now you have some new music, a new album, and I was listening to it and it's pretty freaking amazing. Tell us about the new album, how it came about and how it's different from the other Savage Grace albums. Okay, well, this new album, Underworld, it's my most personal album.

2:00 All of these songs are written from my life, from my experiences, people I've known, things I've done. So, you know, I am the underworld. So, you know, a lot of times people write songs about fantasy and race cars or You know, things they don't really know. All of these songs, I know. I lived it. You know, the whole album is basically about living under the radar, doing what you have to do to get by. Prostitutes, strippers, porn stars, you know, living at the harder side of life. And that's what I know best. So because I've been doing it my whole life. So all of these songs were written really from personal experience. And, you know, it's liberating to be able to put stuff out that is you.

3:04 You know, I'm not trying to be someone else, not trying to impress anybody with, you know, some political stuff or this and that. These songs are all about my life. And that's the only way it should be, I think, if you're an artist. That's the only way you can really, you can't please other people. You have to please yourself first by writing about what you know and about your own feelings. And then you'll attract your tribe of the people that are on the same wavelength as you. Okay, what you just said is dead on. In the last week, I did about three or four other press interviews with And the same issue kept coming up. And that is the issue of self-censorship. This has been a huge problem in the last few years. I didn't even realize it until I came over to Europe in 2024 after not being there for 14 years. And it was shocking.

4:13 I mean, guys, I can't write about that. I'll get canceled. No, we can't do that on stage. We'll get canceled. No, we can't talk about that. We'll get banned. And I said, are you guys living in the Soviet Union of the 1970s or communist China in the 1960s? Because that's what you're living like. You're already created your own damn prison. Okay. You're worried about some secret police taking you off to jail. You don't need to go to jail. You're in jail of your own mind. No doubt. A hundred percent. And music shouldn't be like that. Like to me, being a music artist is being authentically you and speaking your mind and, you know, expressing yourself.

5:02 Music is the best therapy there is. And you're not gaining therapy if you're not being real to yourself. You know, as far as I'm concerned, I'm one of the last pure artists out there in the metal scene. You know, With all the guys in Motorhead dying and, you know, these older bands getting phased out, dying off. The younger bands, they don't get it, okay? They think they've got to please everybody. They've got to please all these political forces. They have to please the government. They have to please the corporations. What the hell happened to being a rebel, okay?

5:42 I know, right? It blows my mind. But like even with punk bands, there's like some punk bands I've interviewed over the years. I'm like, since when was punk pro-government? Like, it's weird. Yeah. You know, you're stealing my thunder tonight, Dean. You know, again, the last few interviews I did with guys in the USA, I spoke with a guy who lives in Czech Republic. And I said, I lived in Czech Republic. And I said, what's going on there is like the Soviet Union times. He said, you're right. My dad lived through the Soviet Union when they took over Czech Republic. He said, everybody is so concerned with being part of the hive mind. Okay.

6:33 Then you ask yourself, well, who is behind the hive mind? It's the state. Okay. So all the 60s rebellions. you know, fuck the government, fuck the state. No, now it's all, we love the state. We love it. The state is our God. Fuck God, the state's our God. I know, right? Well, it blows my mind to your point that the hippies of the 60s became the yuppies and now we're the boomers and they're like the exact opposite of what they stood for back in the 60s. It's sickening. Okay, it's sickening. You have people out there, these old farts like Neil Young and that gal that sang, you know, with the high voice back then. What was her name? The pretty blonde girl from Canada. Oh, Joni Mitchell. Okay.

7:30 All these people were rebels in the 60s, right? Fuck, fuck the war. Fuck the government. Fuck this. Fuck Republicans. Blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. Now they're all like, we love the state. Give us some more vaccine injections. Lock us down some more. Let's wear some masks and show our solidarity with the state. What are these people smoking? What are they smoking? It's weird, right? Like rock and roll has always been the rebels. Since when is rock and roll representing the state? That's for sure. It's weird. Okay, and you think it's bad in the USA? Okay, I spent the whole year in Europe in 2024. I spent a couple months over there in 2025. I lived in Germany for a month with my singer in northern Germany.

8:26 It is so damn bad, okay? If you say one wrong thing over there on the internet or even in person, you're going to get a knock on your door, okay? You're going to get canceled immediately. I was talking to a guy the other night, another host, and he said he knows three American bands, okay, that had all their gigs canceled in Europe because one or two of the guys in the band said, I like Trump or some shit, you know. And, okay, I mean, just for that, okay, you're canceled. Goodbye. So that is how far gone They are there. But you see, the good news is for every strong action, you're going to get reaction. And now they push the spring down as far as they can push it. And it's about to boing up in their face. Okay.

9:27 And this is already happening. You look at what's happening in Germany, Spain, Italy, UK. They've reached the breaking point. And you're going to have big problems now because of it. You cannot force people to act and live in an unnatural manner. People have to be authentic to themselves. And to your point of the cancellations, there are five, six different... punk festivals that I do media coverage for every year that were all canceled this year due to political reasons. And not like the political reasons of the 60s.

10:13 It's like the people who are not down with the state program. Okay. They have to be eliminated. So if they don't cancel you off the internet, they're going to cancel your money. Okay. All right. Well, if that's what you want to do, you won't work. You know, there's a band called Vicious Rumors. Okay. And an agent friend of mine said, do you want to go on the road with them this year? I said, let me think about it. And then a guy told me they actually fired their drummer because the promoter in germany said get rid of your drummer he supports trump so.

10:56 They fired him wow. If that was my band i would have told the promoter in germany hey i got something for you to suck on okay fire someone in your band because a promoter said so. It was bad enough when record labels were telling bands to do things. Now promoters are dictating the terms. It just shouldn't be that way at all. Bands should dictate the terms of their own band. And that is going to happen, okay? And, okay, if they don't play for a while, they don't play. If they don't have a record deal for a while, okay, they don't have a record deal. But the people... Who know what's going on. And there are a lot of them.

11:44 Believe me, I meet them every day. They know what's going on and they're not down with it. Okay. So for all the people that want to cancel, I've been canceled since 1983. Okay. You know, my first dominatrix EP was canceled. Mash of Disguise was canceled. I love being canceled. The more they hate me, the more I enjoy it. Well, you're a true rock and roll rebel the way it should be. And you've always stayed true to yourself. And that portrays in this new album. And I love that you're talking about your life because you have had a lot of adventures in your life, some good, some bad.

12:29 And music is the best way to tell the story about that. Yeah. You know, six years ago, I put out a book about my life. And, you know, most people read it and say, I don't believe you. It's all, you know, you made this shit up. I said, why would I? Why would I? I mean, what I wrote as the truth is more insane than anything I could make up. Okay. Even if I hired some Hollywood script writer and said, write a crazy story. My real life is a thousand times crazier than what they could come up with. So with this record, I did the same thing. I said, okay, I'm just going to talk about what I know, what I've done. It's like testimony. Okay. It's testimony. So if someone says, well, you didn't really do all that. I did all that. I have the, I have the receipts. So, um, and when you listen to it, you hear that, um, I'm totally connected with the music, my guitar playing songs, um, a singer that I brought in for the band, you know, basically he's an extension of me. Okay. I produced everything.

13:48 All the vocals did all the arranging. So if I still could sing, I would have done it like that. Yeah. And that's the way you've always kind of been. Okay. And you're an amazing artist. The, this new album shows it once again, It shows your talent and your authenticity. And that's so important in whether it be metal, rock, punk, whatever. Authenticity is what's important. And that's what's missing today is authenticity. Even some of these metal bands today, I've said it, like they follow like a formula, like an algebraic equation or make metal. That was never metal. That was Metal was always experimentation and doing things that were never done, not doing stuff to sound like everybody else.

14:48 You know, back in the 70s and 80s, they had some people who were like what you call pro songwriters. And they would write songs for big artists, you know, Kiss and White Snake, blah, blah, blah, Bon Jovi, blah, blah, blah. Okay, and they'd come in with a verse. Okay, guys, this is the song, blah, blah, blah. Let's do it. Okay, great. But, okay, people who are really into metal, they can smell it. Okay, they know when somebody's writing something from themselves or they've hired outside songwriters to come in and, you know, write some hit songs for them. And, you know, I'm probably...

15:35 in my opinion, probably the most pure artist in metal that's left. Okay. There were guys before me, okay. Motorhead, you know, when I, when I went out with Motorhead in the eighties, those guys never compromised, you know, they said to him, you know, they want us to be more commercial. They want us to hire some songwriters, come in, make some hits. They said, fuck that, you know, we're Motorhead. And, um, They just kept going. And I always respected them for that. You know, you may not like what they do, but you got to respect it. And now I'm in that position.

16:18 So some people may listen to my stuff. Well, I don't like it. Okay, that's fine. But they got to respect me. Yeah. For what I'm doing. Because I'm not saying, okay, I'm going to go back and make another Master of Disguise record exactly like that. I'm going to make another after the full record. Exactly. No, I'm moving forward. Okay. I'm taking everything I've known after 45 years and making new music. Okay. Just like I did in 1984. Okay. I was making new music. I wasn't trying to make Boston from 76. Right. I liked Boston. I liked Van Halen, but I didn't want to be Boston or Van Halen. Okay. Okay.

17:02 You know, it's funny, as you mentioned the Motorhead tour, I still have the shirt from when you guys went on tour with Motorhead. Oh, you mean the Motorhead with special guest Savage Gray shirt? Yes, sir. Yes, sir. Doesn't fit me, but I still have it. Let me tell you something. That shirt is worth a lot of money. I've seen those going on eBay for $ 400. Really? Well, I would never sell it. It stays as a memento of those great days back then. Very few of those shirts were made. And I know because my manager at the time, Bob Fiero, he ran the merchandising company that made those shirts. So those are extremely, I don't even have one. They're extremely rare.

17:53 Wow, that's wild. I'll tell you another story about shirts too, since you said I don't even have one. I had this discussion with Joey Vera a couple years ago, because we were talking about how I was their first merch company, because me and my bro made their shirts and pins in the beginning, and approached them and said, hey, we make shirts and pins. Can we sell them at your show, and we'll give you half? And they're like, sure. So we were talking about it, and he says, you know that picture? And you probably know this picture too. There's a picture on the internet with Lars holding a guitar.

18:34 He must've been like 15 or 17 or something like that. And he had an armored Saint shirt on and he goes, that's your shirt. And I'm like, no way. And he goes, and he still has it. And I'm like, I don't even have it anymore. And Joey goes, neither do I. And then a couple, like a month later at festivals, interviewing Lars's twins, his kids. And I asked them about after the interview and they're like, yeah, he probably does. He has like a whole closet of everything he ever had, which I thought that was kind of cool that, you know, we all treasure that time so much that we have saved everything from that time. And I think your new album for me, brings me back to that time. And that's one of the things I love about it, even though it's different, but like you said, why you want to write the same album over and over again, but it's still great music. And your guitar playing is, you know, just as good, if not better than it ever was.

19:35 So that's, what's cool. Well, my, my playing is actually way better than it was in the eighties. Exactly. I mean, in the eighties, I was, you know, my playing was good. I could play fast. I could do a lot of runs, blah, blah. But now I'm a real blues guitarist. And if you listen to my leads on like a way back from love and white trash, the new songs, that stuff is smoking. Okay. Yeah. That, that blows what I was doing in 86 out the door. And that's because, you know, in order to be a blues player, you have to live the blues.

20:17 Yeah. I'm just telling a guy this the other night. If some kid said, I want to be a great blues guitarist, I'm going to hire a teacher. I'm going to practice every day. And in a year, I'm going to be great. No, you're not. Okay. Because you haven't lived it. Okay. Stevie Ray Vaughan started playing when he was like nine years old. He was jamming with Albert King when he was like 12. So he immersed himself in the blues. Immersed. His whole life was the blues. So that's why he became so good at a young age because he started very young.

20:57 To be a blues player, you have to have some life experience. Just to go out there and rip it up. Okay. A lot of arpeggios, like an Yngwie type player. You can do that with practice. Okay. If you sit home and practice four hours, five hours a day, you can rip it up just like that. But to be a blues player, you know, if you ever watched the interview, the, um, that, um, Albert King and Stevie Ray did up in Canada in 84. It's on YouTube. It's like a two hour, hour and a half show where they did it in the studio. And, uh, Albert said to Stevie Rivoni, he said, he said, man, Stevie, I never knew you were going to blow up so big.

21:43 You know, there's a lot of good guitar player out there. They play fast, but they don't got no soul. He said, you got them both. Okay. So I can still play fast, but I'm really, really bluesy now. And when people hear that record, they're going to go, whoa, And even on our, you know, we just put out a DVD, our first DVD we've ever done live show. And even my leads on that, which is not the new material, but stuff from the past. Very, very bluesy, very bluesy.

22:24 Well, you know, it's interesting what you said, because the biggest thing I thought of while you're saying is when you're playing the blues and It's not playing it. Like you said, it's immersing yourself, but it's a feeling. Like you have to feel the guitar and feel everything that you're playing opposed to just playing it. Yeah. What you're doing is you are transferring your life experience into those notes. Okay. To just play fast and go up and down the neck like a lightning bolt. You can do that with practice, okay? But to put your life into it, you have to have a life to put in it. If you haven't had a life to put in it, it isn't going to sound like that.

23:17 You know, I was in Europe last year staying at one of my fans. He was a 16-year-old kid with his family. He let me stay there for a week. And he's a guitar player. I said, I'm going to show you how to play a few licks. He couldn't even bend one note. I said, okay, I just want you to play two notes. I just want you to go like Albert King, right? Just couldn't do it. And I said, okay, because he didn't have the life experience. So, you know, when people say, oh, the guy plays blues. Oh, well, he must play really slow. And he's, you know, playing, you know, thinks he's black or something. I don't play slow. Okay. If you listen to those leads, they're pretty damn fast, but they're very, very bluesy. Okay. And that is because I am transferring my life experience into those notes. And my life experience has been intense. Okay. That's why my playing is intense. You know, I don't sound like a jazz player. I don't sound like, you know, Larry McLaughlin or one of those guys, because they've lived a different type of life. You know, they live a, different life my life has been on the edge for a long time.

24:38 Well I'm so happy you're still putting out music because again best therapy there is first of all for you and for me the listener but also because it's just something the world needs right now and I want to know what is the motivation for you After all these years, that keeps you getting better and better and putting out new music and even, you know, making the craft of your guitar playing the best it's ever been. Well, the answer to that is I still have something to say. If I didn't have anything to say, I would give it up. I would just sit on the beach here in Thailand and do nothing. but I don't want to do nothing. I still have things to say.

25:35 And the things that I have to say are important to me. And I think they're important for other people. Okay. These guys who play metal now, these younger kids, they need a more positive role model. Let me share something with you. When I was recording this album, I had a different singer when we started than Sebastian Hauser. I had a different guy. And I liked this guy. He was a great guy. But English is not his first language.

26:15 So I had a hell of a time working with him. It was extremely difficult. One of the most difficult things of my life. It was very time consuming and very expensive. But we got through about seven songs with this guy. And then I sat down with him. I said, listen, I have a marketing plan for the album. This is what we're going to do. And he said, absolutely not. I will not be a part of it. No way. And I said, well, you're leaving me very little options here. Okay. So I had to get rid of him. And I brought in Sebastian Hauser, which was a great move because he was fantastic. He did a great job. But the reason the kid was afraid of my marketing plan, he told me, is he was afraid of being canceled. And I said, you're 29 years old and you're worried about being canceled. I said, being canceled is the best thing that could ever happen to you. Nobody in the world knows who you are. You're a nobody. Okay. If you get canceled, at least you'll get a ton of press.

27:33 Don't you get it? Don't you get it? And he couldn't get it. He couldn't compute. You know, my father was a PR man for the movie studios back in the 50s and 60s. He represented a lot of big stars, Lana Turner, Sean Connery, Mickey Rooney, Donald O'Connor, all these people. And he used to tell me all the time, He said, there's no such thing as bad press. He said, all press is good press. If they want to pan your album, say you're an idiot, whatever, the better. He said, the more hatred in the press, the better. And I tried to explain it to this kid. And he said, if I get canceled, it's the end of me. And I said, you're wrong. I said, if you don't get canceled, it's the end of you. This kid's in three other bands that aren't doing shit. but they're not canceled, okay? At least they're not canceled. I may be canceled, but I'm doing stuff, okay? So if you're that afraid of being canceled, you might as well think about selling shoes, working on the internet, being a construction worker, because if you're worried about what the world thinks of you that much, you should forget about music.

28:58 I was just thinking that exact same thing. You know, like, why be in the music business if you're worried about getting canceled and if you can't express yourself? Let me tell. You something else, okay? Kanye West, okay? That guy is banned in every country in Europe. He cannot even set foot there, okay? A few weeks ago, he played a show in Istanbul, Turkey, in front of 120,000 people, okay? 120,000 people.

29:40 Showed up to see him and a lot of those people Came from Europe Because they knew they couldn't see him there Okay Whatever the guy has to say You know I don't know what the guy really His message is But if he's that cancelled That they really need to shut him down He must be saying something important. You know, if they're going to go through all that trouble to shut this guy down, destroy his life, take away his platform, whatever. That makes me want to actually listen to him. I never listened to the guy before. But if he's that canceled, what's he saying? What's he saying that's so bad I won't hear it? Let me judge, okay?

30:27 If he's saying something that I don't like, okay, I won't listen to it. If he says something that's interesting, okay, he's got something to say. But don't deplatform these people, okay? Right. That's the worst thing you can do. Because the more you suppress it, the more people go, see? Aha, he's right. You see? Yes. It causes the reverse. They want to shut him down. Okay. Then more people say he must be right. Okay. Exactly. That's what it is with me. Okay. The more they want to shut me down, you know, they don't put all these stories on the internet. The more people want to see what I'm doing.

31:17 No doubt. And not only that, but if they want to shut you down, if they want to cancel you, that means the powers that be are, are in fear. That you're speaking truth. Exactly. Exactly. So anytime I hear about somebody getting canceled, I say, I want to hear what they have to say. Okay. There's a woman, this country music girl who's really big right now. She's huge. What's her name? She's got a big hit about Texas. getting what this girl's name is but she's gigantic she gets multi-million views and i was reading oh she's she's too controversial and i said really she's controversial so i listened to a couple of her songs and all she was singing about was like going on a date with a guy falling in love and some you know really innocuous shit but that was so provocative to all these people on the other side that they said she's controversial. 50 years ago, she was normal.

32:34 If we worried about that back then, there would be no Wendy O. Williams. There would be no Joan Jett, probably. There would be no mentors. Remember the mentors? S.O.D. would be canceled today. All of those bands, even 80s hair metal bands, Okay. I mean, you know, I talked to these bands. I talked to them. My bass player is in four different bands. And he said, no, we can't do that. You know, no, we can't do that. Don't do this. I told the guy, my bass player said, okay, we're going to shoot a video in a strip club. And he said, no, I can't do it. And I said, why?

33:18 I said, why? He said, I'll be canceled. I said, who the fuck cares if you're canceled? You're nobody anyway. See, a lot of these kids, they think because they're in one or two minor bands that play in front of 20 people that they're huge stars already and that they have a huge platform and they're afraid to lose their huge platform. I said, you don't have a platform. You're nobody. Nobody gives a fuck about you and you're worried about being canceled. You think you're Kanye West? You're not. Well, there was a band recently that we know pretty well, I won't mention their name, that the lead person of that band, who was canceled from another band back in the 80s, ended up canceling his long-term bass player just because of some story from back in the 80s. Like, you know what? every single person in music in the 80s would be canceled based on that same story.

34:26 Okay, I know who you're talking about. I'm not going to mention them either, but I know who you're talking about. And to me, that incident was making somebody guilty before they're proven guilty. No doubt. What happened... was to me a nothing burger, okay? But because the boss of the band was so worried about being canceled, he said, oh, I better get ahead of this and kick the guy out. Yeah, what kind of friend is that? Like, they've been friends forever. These guys worked together for 40 years. No doubt. And I was just with that person. He's the nicest person in the world. I was just with him this weekend, you know? And, you know, how do you just... Get rid of not just a bandmate, but a friend like that over something that's ancient history that we don't even know if it's true or not.

35:25 My best advice to that guy is, you know what? You're better off. If that's who your friends are, get rid of them. No doubt about it. A hundred percent. Like I have no respect for that. you know, you should stand up for your bandmates. You should stand up for your friends. And especially when you have that long of a relationship, because I don't think anybody else in music that ever played with that band has ever stuck around and put up with more shit for such a long time as him. And then you don't have any loyalty. I'm big into loyalty.

36:06 He should have had loyalty for him. The thing is, okay. When you run into a serious problem, situation, that's when you see what people are really made out of, okay? When everybody's doing great, everybody's at the top, riding high, making money, blah, blah, blah, with a smiley face, you don't know who that person is. When you get down in the nitty gritty, okay, like I have been many, many times, you're going to see who they really are. No doubt. Okay? Who they really, the mask comes off. Okay. Then you say, now I see who this guy is. Okay.

36:50 So for that guy, he's better off. No doubt. I've had the same experiences. Like I've had a major roller coaster in my life and lots of things that I've gone through. And you're right. It's not when you're doing okay that you know who people are that are surrounding you. It's when you hit bottom. that you really find out who you should be surrounding yourself with. I'll tell you the easiest way to get rid of someone in your life. All you got to do is loan them a hundred dollars. That's pretty true. You'll never see them again. If you got someone in your life that you want to get rid of, say, hey, I'm going to loan you a hundred bucks. Okay. You'll never see them. Absolutely. Absolutely.

37:39 So tell everybody with the new album how they can get it and any other information about the album that they should look out for. Okay, the album comes out October 23rd on Back on Black Records. It's a British label and they have worldwide reach. They're the biggest label I've ever been signed to. So they're going to be everywhere. You know, all the regular Amazons plus all of your other chain stores mail order. They got their own website called Plastic Head Distribution for UK and Europe and America. They'll be everywhere. I've already looked at all the sites. You know, the record's already up on pre-order on a lot of sites. And so it won't be hard to find. We're worldwide. It's going to be out in Japan, U.S., Canada, Mexico, worldwide.

38:40 Nice. And do you have any plans for any tours, festivals, live shows? Okay, well, let me tell you about that. October 23rd, if I'm still alive and not in jail, I'm going to be dropping some serious videos. And these videos are extreme. And there's going to be so much fallout from these videos. It'll probably take a couple months to assimilate all the fallout. So after that, then I'll have to make decisions about what we're going to do as far as live playing.

39:21 Because if there was ever any moment in history that I'm going to be permanently canceled, it'll be October 21st. 23rd. Well, let's look out for that because you are a badass that doesn't do anything but be authentically you, make great music, and still lives that life of standing for the people instead of the state. That's right. You got it. Well, thanks a lot for keep doing this because certainly you don't have to. You do it because you love it. You do it because you want it. And you do it for us, the listeners. And for that, you are a true musician. And that's what makes you a rock star.

40:08 You got it, Dean. Thanks a lot for having me on. It's great to see you again. Absolutely. Great seeing you again. And thanks once again for being on the Adventures of Pipe Man. And I hope to hear a lot more from you. Especially after October 23rd. You got it! Thank you for listening to The Adventures of Pikeman on W4CY Radio.