Understanding Behavioral Styles for Effective Pricing with Shelly Starks

Welcome to Live With The Pricing Lady.

I'm Janene, your hostess.

This show is all about helping you build a sustainably profitable

business while making an unbelievable impact on your world.

Learn from my 20 years of experience and from my guests as we discuss their pricing

challenges, failures, and successes.

Pricing is a way of being or behaving in your business.

My mission is to help you confidently charge for the value you deliver.

Pricing is either hurting or helping your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

In this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, I sit down with Shelley Starks,

CEO of inline consulting services, LLC.

Shelly's business is all about understanding behavioral styles

for better communication.

I was curious, not only about her pricing journey, but how understanding our own

behaviors or that of our customers can help us with pricing in our businesses.

Sit back, relax and enjoy the episode.

Today, let's welcome my special guest, Shelly Starks.

Hi, Shelly.

Hi, Janene.

Thank you so much for having me.

I'm super excited to have you here with me today.

Why don't we start by you sharing where you're calling from today?

I am calling from Florida.

So in the Tampa St. Pete area.

Okay.

Oh yeah.

We had a conversation that I've been in the area once before quite a while.

Long ways from you.

Yes, it is.

Yes, it is.

It's bright and early in the morning for you there.

Shelley, what would you describe as your superpower?

I would say my superpower is that I've learned how to

pick up on behavioral styles.

And what that means is when someone communicates, how they problem solve,

how they make decisions, I've learned to identify what the style is.

Well, first I identified what my style was, so I knew how I was

communicating, but then I learned how to identify other people's style.

And, and then, As I grew that I learned how to adapt a conversation

and those people typically feel like they're more connected to me.

They're like, wow, I just feel like, you know, it's just so easy talking

to you or that I didn't really have any, you know, any concerns or you

made me feel really comfortable.

And so I always tell my children learning something like that as a superpower,

because not everybody's aware of it.

Yes, absolutely.

Oh, I love that.

And I just gave me an idea for a question later.

So I just scribble it down while you're talking there.

Super.

So understanding a behavior style is very important.

What's one thing that people don't know about you that you'd

like to share with us today?

Oh goodness.

Well, I have a few, but probably one that is most I guess universal or at

least global that people would know is my birth name is Carrie Underwood.

Oh, wow.

, for those of you who aren't into country western music, she's also a singer,

but most people globally kind of know her, you know, so, yeah.

Yeah, I always use that as an icebreaker at like parties when they are like, go

find the person who has, you know, this, you know, no one ever figures it out.

I usually win the prize.

Probably not after this, but.

That's so funny.

Excellent.

Okay.

We'll all remember that, but we'll remember to call you Shelly.

Yeah.

Well, my middle name's Michelle.

you know, literally I'm, it's, it's not too far away.

And then I had gotten married and so that's why the last name changed.

But yeah.

Okay.

Very good.

Excellent.

So Shelly, why don't you tell us a little bit about your business, how you got

started in your business and what you do?

Sure.

So inline consulting services, I have several revenue streams within that.

At this point, it's eight revenue streams and they're not related, but the

one that's my, what I call my passion stream has to do with behavioral styles.

And I'm a communications coach.

I have been behavioral analysis certified for over 20 years.

And so I help businesses and sometimes individuals understand

what we talked about a minute ago.

Identifying the best ways to communicate so that defensive gates go down and

people are open and there's typically a higher, you know, emotional intelligence

level that happens, even if it's just within that one conversation.

And so I enjoy showing business owners and businesses how to communicate with

their people so that they, they get the most effective time when they're with

them the employees feel from a cultural perspective that the employer has heard

them has understood them and that.

They want to go to work every day.

We spend a lot of time at work, you know, so you really do want to be there.

Yah, Excellent!

And how did you get into that?

You know, years and years ago, when my oldest daughter was little,

she had a lot of medical problems.

And so working a regular nine to five job was just really not an option for me.

And so I went into a direct marketing sales company, and they actually

had this extended disc is what I use as the behavioral analysis tool.

And they use that and baked it into all of their sales training.

And it really just lit me up.

Like I just said, Took to that, I ended up growing that business very large

and had a training center with 300 consultants coming through monthly.

And as part of that, I started realizing that they were learning in different ways.

You know, they were picking up on the information differently.

So we would identify those styles and kind of separate them out into

the styles and how they communicated and, and problem solved together.

And it, it really amplified their learning experience and

then grew their own business.

And so.

Doing that was like impactful to me.

I thought Oh my gosh and it happened to be in a a women predominantly

women, you know, own group.

And from that perspective I thought, Oh, I really feel like, you know, as

women sometimes we can be a little bit.

Guarded, right?

Like we, we, especially in professional settings and this just like broke down

some of those walls and it didn't matter.

Gender.

It didn't matter really.

Cause we had men too, but it didn't matter.

Gender.

It didn't matter.

Ethnicity.

It didn't matter any of that.

And I just, that just really like made me feel like a warm inside, you know,

like, okay, we're going to, we're going to have a different kind of conversation.

They're going to learn and they're going to go out and grow their business.

Wow.

That's a pretty big impact that I can have in the hour or two

hours that they sit with me.

Right.

Right.

Oh, I love it.

I have so many questions.

What I like to do is start talking about pricing.

What was it like the first time when you had to set a price for something

you were selling in your own business?

I will tell you that it was an uncomfortable situation for me.

I thought if I were purchasing.

I put the filter of, if I were purchasing this, that seems too expensive.

It caused me to create a behavior not charging for what the value was.

And really what it comes down to is figuring out where the need is.

Right?

So like if you can back this in to your pricing, when you're

looking at your price, your prices, one, hard costs are one thing.

Right?

Hard costs, there's some soft costs, but there's also opportunity

costs that you have to keep an in.

and Did I drive there?

Did how much time was I away from other things that were growing my business?

You have to kind of look at it.

And I didn't know how to do any of that.

And it was just basically me and a number on a paper.

And that was really intimidating because I thought, oh, Gosh, I don't even really

know that anybody would really pay that.

Well, I had to figure out a way to feel confident in what I was offering because

if I can't, if I don't think the value's there, guess what I'm never going to

be able to sell the value, you know?

And those people that were sitting across that table from me could feel that.

they knew that I, and what's interesting is that subconsciously we don't realize

what's going on there, but that's where the that, you know, negotiation

or that So that's a good one.

people asking for a reduced cost comes from, because they're picking

up on different things like that, that are subconscious, that you

don't even realize is happening.

So there's a lot of pre work in my mind that goes into pricing that is not

just the number that you put on paper.

Yeah, absolutely.

That's what brings, at least in my experience, that's what brings part

of that confidence is understanding why that number and not the other.

Another number.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

And sometimes we try to do this.

Well, my business is like this and this is what they charge.

And you can't do that either because this is not about an industry

standard, especially if you are in the services industry, right?

If you don't have like a widget, Or a hard, like a hard cost product

for something, and you, you have to understand that especially depending on

how long you've been doing something, or maybe you've had expertise in

other things and you're not, you're bringing one, one specific expertise,

but you're supporting it by other expertise that you have over the years.

You have to factor that stuff in.

So when I sit down with the business owner.

And we talk about Communication.

I don't just talk about communication.

I talk about, you know, I don't do recruiting anymore,

but I bring to the table.

It's possible that when we do a burnout assessment and we look at

this behavioral style of someone, we could have somebody in this role that

is not matching the behavioral style.

The role is one thing.

The style of the person is another.

And we're putting them in extended states where that makes them feel burned out.

Right?

Well, that's, that's a, it.

That's going down more of a recruiting conversation as opposed

to a communications co conversation.

Mm-Hmm.

. But I'm able to bring something to the table that's of high value to them

that they can take and, and make an actionable or do an action, right?

That changes that environment for that role or even for that

employee so they don't lose them.

Mm-Hmm.

, you know, that.

But if I don't take those kind of considerations into my pricing

as a factor, then I'm, I'm really undercutting the value of what I bring.

This is the example that I use.

And I feel like worldwide people have plumbers, right?

Everybody has plumbers.

Have you ever had your plumber come to your house and he charges

you like 350 and he's there for 10 minutes, but he fixed it.

And someone says, well, he was only here for 10 minutes.

No, no, no.

You paid for the 30 years he's been fixing toilets so that he could come

in for 10 minutes and fix yours in 10 minutes instead of it being a

disaster and you're not having your toilet for however long, right?

Like you, you have to look at it like that.

You're paying for the expertise.

Yeah.

I think it's also important to, to, I don't want to say remind, but reflect

on maybe you're, let's say you're a coach and you're new to coaching.

But you have 20 years of corporate experience where you use a lot of

coaching skills, even though you didn't have the formal training.

So I know like a lot of the coaching institutes, they say that

you have to charge a lower price from day one, and they give you

some, some guidelines, what to do.

And oftentimes I find they're actually misaligned with the value that the

coach is actually bringing, but that's what they've been, you know, And so I

think it's important for people to also, you know, take a look at the holistic

of their experience and how it plays into the value that they're bringing.

And that is very much aligned with what you were saying.

Absolutely.

And, and, you know, this is the other thing is that you've got to, if you're

going to be an entrepreneur and you're going to be a business owner, this

took me a long time to figure out.

You're being drawn to that for a reason.

You're not, it's not, entrepreneurship is not for everyone.

It's just not for everybody.

And that's okay.

But the people who are drawn to it, it's important that you listen to

what's going on inside of you for the reason you were being drawn to that.

Right?

Like, why am I being drawn to this?

And it's not just because corporate doesn't fit me, because I'm

not a good fit for corporate.

It's not, it's not that you're being drawn there because you have something

you want to do to help people.

You have, you have a service or you have something that you believe that you're

able to transfer that's going to improve somebody's, you know, professional life,

their personal life, whatever it is.

So you have to dig a little bit deeper than just the surface of what is that?

What is it that I'm doing?

What's this line item that I'm doing?

You know, and unfortunately when someone is coming through

or these training programs or, you know, they're meant to have.

They're meant to be cookie cutters so that everybody can join that program.

But when you're an entrepreneur, you've got to pull from every possible area

of your life to pull this together.

You know, why not use the guidance of why you ended up going out on your own

to begin with, you know, and, and kind of benchmark it against that instead of.

Well, this is what this says on paper.

Does that feel right?

Or should you, you know, should you try to look at it from a different angle?

Right.

Right.

Oh, I love it.

One of the things that, that we spoke about, or that you, you mentioned when we

talked previously was this whole concept of we're raised not to talk about money.

And then you get into life, especially as an entrepreneur and you find

yourself in the position where you're forced in a sense to talk about it.

Can you talk to us some more about that?

And your experience in that area?

So I remember as a kid, and I'm sure most people were raised similarly

when, you know, when somebody bought something and as a kid, you're like,

Oh my gosh, how much does that cost?

I remember my mom being like, we don't ask that question, don't ask somebody how

much something they paid for something.

Or, Wow, he's got like the biggest house.

How much money do you make?

Shelley, don't ask how much money people make.

You just, you weren't allowed to ask these questions as kids.

We're curious and we like have the, it's, it's innocent.

It's not meant to, we're not going to take that information and tell the whole

neighborhood how much money, you know, Mr.

Jones makes.

It's, it was more like to help us benchmark.

How do we, how do we.

When, when I get to that level, this is the kind of thing I can have, right?

Like that's kind of that, that's that innocence piece of kids.

But then as you get older, the very first thing you have to do in a sales

environment or as a business owner, because you have to sell yourself

is you have to talk about money.

And so we have this weird thing that we do in our culture where

we're like, until you're, you know, an adult, don't talk about money.

And then so psychologically, when you get to the adult phase, when someone,

You have to talk to somebody about money.

It's an uncomfortable feeling, even if it is psychological, it's uncomfortable

because we were told don't do that.

Right.

And so it's, it's about creating new behaviors around money, right.

Understanding that money is a tool.

That's all it is, right?

What you're offering and, and the relation to money is important,

but what, what money is in and of itself is not the important part.

You're bringing something to the table that is a value.

And if you're really good at asking questions around Why they Are

Wanting To Buy From You, Or Why They Have a Need for That, And Then

Youre Being Realistic Around Your Product Or Service Filling That Need.

Then Theres a Value associated With The Money Part.

As Opposed to It Just Being a Money Part And Thats Tommy Starts Pricing.

Something for the Money, Right?

We're putting the value first and then the money follows because it's just a tool.

But it's hard for us culturely to be like, Janene just you know,

tell me what your budget is?

You just want me to tell you what I, what my budget is?

Like my whole budget, like everything I have, like it's just

the silliest thing that we do.

Right.

Instead of, like, Let me ask you some questions.

I mean, why did you reach out to me today?

You know, was there something specific that sparked this?

What are some of the things you've done that have, you know, that

you've tried to do to fix it before?

How did that work for you?

Like go into the questions that are getting them into a situation where

they're like, Oh my gosh, this Shelly person has something I really need.

And I, and now they're adding value in their own mind to your word.

solution, right?

As opposed to you trying to sell them something at a price.

Right, right, right.

I love that.

And so for someone who's, say, struggles with that, with that sort of the way they

were raised when it comes to, you know, talking about money, how can they start

to Or what worked for you even in terms of making that shift to being able to being

more comfortable about talking about it?

I think part of it too, there's some, there's some other, you know, nurture

relationship things that had happened, like how you were raised around money.

So I was raised in a very poor environment.

My parents did not have a lot of money and we, you know, we struggled

most of, most of my childhood.

And I remember that.

And so there's some deep seated things that I had to work on that were not

even related to pricing and business.

I needed to go back and change my relationship to money.

Because I always looked at money as something of scarcity

when I was younger, right?

It just wasn't there.

So the relationship, have you ever known somebody where they maybe had, they were

very wealthy and then their children just naturally fell into things like, even

if you like knew them really well, their children just naturally fell into things

and all of a sudden they became wealthy.

And it wasn't because their parents actually gave them some kind of

runway for I mean, seriously, if you really were to dissect it,

it's because they had a different relationship with money growing up.

Right.

And so, no, these are not like quick fixes for anybody, but

you know, you can go online.

There's so many things out online about being able to change

your relationship with money.

I believe that I had to start there because I wanted to make

sure that I felt number one worthy.

of that money.

Right.

And number two, that if I really, really was honest with myself and my service was

as good as I thought it was, was right.

That I believe that somebody would pay for that.

Right.

And so it, I think it starts twofold.

relationships with money and then making sure that you

understand your value personally for what you bring to the table.

I think once you marry those two, you know, once you get those together, I

think that the pricing conversation with yourself as a business owner is not hard.

Like it's, it's really not hard.

It turns into, it turns into something even more, like,

here's what happened with me.

I had a service or I had a program.

Once I started changing that relationship with money, I started realizing my value.

All of a sudden I started thinking of creative ways to add additional

services to my, to my line card.

To giving them more value for than what I was just offering initially, it

literally started unlocking these doors

of things that allowed me to be more in flow with what my business could offer.

And the money part just didn't even really seem important after that.

It was more like, how can I help these people?

And, oh my gosh, the impact that this made on this business, this is where they are

now, how much can I put a value on that?

I can tell you what the number was from the growth standpoint of what happened.

Right?

So let's say it's a half a million dollar growth standpoint, right?

You're never going to charge a client a half a million dollars.

You got to think about what that, what that impact made to that business.

The percentage of what it grew, their, their overall growth for the year was 13%.

With this specific client, I'm thinking of 13 percent

overall in your business growth.

If I were to show you across the board is a really big number, right?

And so if I go to the next person, the next client and can say, I've

got a honed in process, I feel really confident in the fact that this is

going to help you grow your business.

And even if I say 5%, guess what they're going to say?

That's pretty good.

Please.

Yeah, no, I love that.

And.

I think, well, my experience has shown that, that, that alignment between.

your relationship with money.

And it can also be for some people, it's not even money.

It's worthiness.

It's success.

Those can also very much hamper what you do not only in your business,

but especially with your pricing and understanding the value of

what your offer really brings.

Those two things combined are kind of like the special, the special key that

unlocks the treasure chest, if you will.

Yeah.

I agree.

I agree.

Yeah.

Super.

Okay.

I wanted to ask you about, so something you said earlier, actually, I'd

like to talk about this more because I think that this communication

and pricing is really important.

And I'm curious about how People's different communication styles

influence their ability to be able to close the deal, have the

conversations in the right way.

You know, sometimes people are like, it's all about who you're

talking to and other people.

It's all about you.

And so I'm curious about your take on that in relationship to this topic of pricing.

Well, I think regardless of what topic you're having, again, if you understand

what your behavioral style is, and if you identify the style of the person sitting

in front of you, and you realize that the two of you are not the same style

and you're able to adapt to their style just for that conversation and and ask

some really good open ended questions, you know when you're walking through this

instead of yes or no questions because all you're going to get is yes or no

when you ask a yes or no question, right?

But if you ask an open ended question, Then they're gonna be talking longer.

They're going to be talking more.

You want them talking more, but also it gives you an opportunity to understand

their style a little bit better.

The longer they're talking, the more you can pick up on different clues, right?

So for instance, you know, in, in extended disk, we, I help, I help people

identify behavioral styles very quickly.

There's four styles on the top style or the top side of this quadrant.

You There's the task oriented people.

Those are the D's and the C's oriented people, right?

At the bottom, these are people oriented people.

So the I's and the S's.

So if someone I'm talking to starts going into telling me who they know,

and they're like, And who they met.

And this person does this.

We're talking about they're, they're more people centric.

If somebody says to me, well, I read these statistics and we've started going

and we've, you know, researched this and then these are the facts, right?

We're talking more about a task oriented person.

So all of a sudden now you've eliminated, you know, two of the four styles.

Now, you know, which side of the quadrant to go to quickly.

And then the other way I say, if they're an out in the room processor, somebody

who's using their hands, talking out loud, it's like a stream of consciousness, or

they're an internal processor, meaning they're processing internally, just

because they're processing internally does not mean they don't have enough

to say, or a lot to say, just like that out in the room processor.

If you can identify that, now we're almost in a quadrant, right?

So now you're going, okay, I've got somebody who's people oriented,

but they're internal processing.

So when I ask a question, I want to not say anything else

after I asked that question.

It's uncomfortable for us to leave space, but that person who is

more people oriented, all boats rise in the harbor person, right?

For the whole team, they're thinking team oriented.

They're thinking internally, they're going, I need to think of how this

is going to affect the entire team.

You need to give them a minute.

To reply to your actual answer.

We try to fill this space as though it were some kind of jar that we have

to fill the entire thing while we're sitting there having a conversation.

And that's not what this is.

This is a conversation, right?

And so if the person in front of you needs to process that for a minute, give

them an open ended question and then just sit there and let them think about it.

I love it.

You know, and sometimes, sometimes what happens is, is that.

They might say, you know what?

I actually probably need to think about this a little bit more.

Great.

You, I'm going to write that down.

Cause this sounds like it's important to you that you want to, you know,

cover this the next time we talk and then ask them another question.

Because what's happening is that instead of they're used to a salesperson

coming in or a business person coming in and then just telling them.

Right.

And when you ask them, no matter what style you are, when someone gets asked

a question and they feel the runway to be able to share their opinion.

Now you get insights into their business that helps you understand

if your product or service is a good fit for the need they have.

Right.

As opposed to just.

Assuming that everyone can buy from you.

Right.

Or is willing and able.

Or willing, exactly.

I think that's

the, when I, so I do a lot of training on, how to do market

research to understand your customer.

So basically conducting customer insight interviews.

And we talk a lot about not asking leading questions and, and, Having

those open ended questions so that you can get good, valuable information.

And it's a skill that, that people can develop.

And I think a lot of people think that you either have it or you don't, but in

my experience, what I've noticed is it's really something that you can develop.

And the more you use it, the easier it gets with time as well.

Yeah.

And, and I call those behaviors.

So when we go to do a new behavior, if you go to start exercising and you haven't

been exercising, there's going to be some things that come along with that,

depending on your age to the older I get.

The harder it is for me to get back into things like that, but there's

always something that comes from it.

There's soreness, right?

You have to push through that morning that you don't want to get out of bed.

You know, you've got all these other impeding things coming at you

and you have to make it a point.

Priority, right?

There's things that actually have to happen whenever you change your

behavior and it has to be intentional.

And so whenever I used to be a sales coach and I would explain to people,

you know, this behavior is going to feel weird, but you've just got to commit

to yourself that you're going to do it.

And if that means you need to write out some open ended questions

ahead of time so that you don't have to think of them on the fly.

That's a really good way for you to like, look at your list and say, you know what?

I need to make sure and just make them succinct with how you would normally

ask questions around your product or service, filling a need, right?

Just ask those questions and you'll get better at them.

But when we get stressed or we get nervous, which most people do when

they're having pricing conversations, when you get into that, cause of that

psychological childhood thing that we have going on in our culture, then you're

going to You know, what happens is, is that you go back to a natural behavior.

You go back to the nervous answering the question, like asking a question

and then answering it whenever you like ask the question, you know, sometimes

I notice that people will do that or they just won't let the space be

there for them to answer the question.

They'll have to fill it.

And so literally the new behavior is not going to be comfortable.

You got to work on it a little bit at a time, and then once it starts

to become natural, you know, you're going to start seeing a huge difference

in the conversations that you have.

Absolutely.

One more thing before I start to wrap this up, because I believe that we

spoke about this and I noticed I kept myself doing it like three or four

times just in this conversation alone.

And that's this phrase, I think.

That a lot of women use, especially women use, I think this, or I think

that, and these it's, for me, it's a qualifier that we sometimes use.

And I'm curious about your thoughts in terms of, you know, the communication and

pricing and some of these qualifiers that, that we use quite often that let's say,

weaken the impact of, of the conversations that we're having with people.

Can you give me an example of one of those sentences?

So, for example, saying, you know, I think, instead of just saying.

If I were to say, yeah, I think, you know, pricing should be done

this way, instead of starting it with I think, just saying, you know,

pricing should be done like this.

It, these things sort of weaken, or one thing I hear, A lot.

Not to pick on coaches, but I'll meet someone new at an event and

I'll be like, Hey, what do you do?

And they'll be like, Oh, I'm just a coach.

And that word just, it kills me when I hear it.

And so those kinds of phrases, there's a lot of them we use in our conversations

and they have a huge impact on pricing in part because of how it deals with Impacts

people's perception of what we're saying.

Yeah.

Using the phrase, I think, obviously does put a little bit of a, it's not

a concrete thing in, by the time you show up in a pricing conversation,

your pricing should be concrete.

If you're walking into a conversation and you are willing to negotiate that

pricing before the conversation even starts, you're not going to win that.

Okay.

Like you're not going to win in the conversation.

Even if you win the business, that just because you win the business doesn't

mean it was a good business deal.

Right.

And so if you're using terms like, I think that's not really the

concrete conversation around pricing that you really want to have.

That really does psychologically let the person know in front of you that, that

there is, you know, maybe some wavering.

That can happen, right?

They don't even notice that that's happening.

It is psychological.

But if somebody, we call that being in the, in the prospect sales cycle,

you all of a sudden put yourself in their process, their sales process.

Now you're not in your own process.

And guess who's in charge of the conversation?

They are.

Guess who's providing the service and has the pricing?

You are.

So if you are coming to that, you know, conversation, and that's

again going to go back to your confidence around your pricing of

what you feel like you are worth.

And if you're coming to, you know, unless you're using it in a away to

try to soften a conversation because

It's different if you're using it for not, you know, you're using it as more

of a technique, But if you're coming to their at that conversation and you're

saying I, you know, I, in they're saying listen Janine, you know, we can't afford

that or our budgets talking allow that.

Well I think if you were just here You know, what, what the service offering, the

full service offering was, you'd, you'd really kind of put the value on that.

You can't do it that way, right?

Because if you're not willing to walk away from a bad business

deal, you're going to get yourself into a lot of bad business deals.

Cause I have a rule.

If it's a good business deal for you and it's a good business deal for me, then

it's a good business deal deal, right?

But if it's just a good business deal for you.

This is not how that's supposed to be.

I walked away from plenty of business that was not a good fit.

Right.

And so using that, you know, that goes back to that value, I think.

Mm hmm.

I agree.

Your value, how you, yeah, how you value yourself.

Yeah, exactly.

And what you offer.

I think, I think it's great that you are helping people and coaching

them in that, because that is a subconscious thing that they're doing.

If they'd say no, what was that?

I think most of us see, there I go.

See, it's just so, but that's what I hear it now.

That's the good thing.

So funny.

It's like I was in Toastmasters for years and getting rid of the M's and R's.

We did that.

That was changing your behavior.

Like you were having to like be present and you were having to be intentional

about the behavior and watching the things as opposed to going on an autopilot.

When you're speaking to be intentional about what the thoughts are.

And when you're intentional about those and you know where they're going, and

it's not just a stream of consciousness that's happening, you can typically.

You know, change that behavior and remove those ums and ahs out of,

because you're not searching for the conversation as you're going.

Right, right.

It's a, it's a subconscious way to feel the silence and give yourself the pause

to think about something where you would be better off just having the silence.

Taking that time to, to reflect on what you want to say or ask a question

so that they're filling it and you can sit for a minute and figure out

your next really great question.

Yes, exactly.

Super.

I love this conversation.

I have so many more questions, but unfortunately we need to wrap this up.

So I would like to ask you, what is it you'd like people to remember

from our conversation today?

Well, if you are finding yourself in a situation where you're, you just don't

seem to be connecting, you probably notice when you connect with someone and

all of a sudden you just clicked and you were like, wow, I just felt like that

was just like the best conversation.

It was kind of invigorating.

It was, you know, it was something that kind of fed you energy.

And if you're feeling like you are not feeling that way,

You might need to understand a little bit about where your behavioral style

is leading you in conversations and the behavioral style of the person that's

in front of you, so that you can learn to adapt a little bit better, you know,

because if you are just communicating in your style, I always say this, if you're

just communicating in your style, you're only wrong about 60 percent of the time.

So if that number is good for you, just Then we don't need to talk.

There you go.

Only 60 percent of the time.

Super cool.

Are there any books, tools, podcasts, things that you're really

enjoying right now, something you'd like to share with us today?

Well, I am really working on revamping some phase 2 for my business.

So I've kind of been going internally with this and some of it is kind of

folding into what you are mentioning here.

Hopefully in 2025, we're gonna be launching a video series that is going

to be more of a of a tutorial for individuals to be able to come through.

So normally I do coaching on, on group coaching and with businesses, but I

have a lot of people say this really made an impact to me learning about me.

And then now I'm using it with my family.

And, you know, is there any way for us to be able to watch something together

so we can kind of learn it together?

So the goal is for me to actually, you know, work towards this, this,

this instruction based platform.

So right now I feel like I'm more internally focused as opposed

to the things that are really feeding me externally focused.

But stay tuned, hopefully that's going to be coming next year.

I love the idea of that.

I think we assume that everybody communicates well

and that in every household.

You Know, You're Brought Up With These Sort Of Life Skills.

And so we focus our educational systems on, you know, math and science

and languages and things like that.

But these life, I call them life skills, at least are equally

as important at the very least.

And so often under.

valued, let's say.

Our blended family is a true testament to that.

Years ago, probably eight years ago, I made my family as a blended family

or my client and having two children that were vastly different on the

behavioral scale, teaching them and now seeing them as adults using this

and them actually thriving because they understand how to communicate

really, really made an impact to me.

And I feel like at some point I want to.

I want to be able to share that with other people.

Excellent.

So Shelly, if people want to reach out to connect with you, find out more about what

you do, where should they reach out to?

LinkedIn is a great place to reach out.

It's just Shelly Death Starks.

And if you Google anything, Shelly Starks, you should find

just about all of the other ones.

If you're looking, not Carrie Underwood.

Not Carrie Underwood.

You'll find Carrie Underwood.

You could have done, you could have done at not Carrie Underwood.

Well, I mean, as, as my family says, I'm the OG because I'm older than her,

but I won't take that away from her.

Excellent.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Shelley, everyone, we'll put the, her links in the show notes as

well, so you can reach out to her.

But thank you.

Thank you so much, Shelley, for joining us.

Janene, thank you for having me.

And I just think this is such a unique podcast.

I think it's awesome that you are helping people understand and getting the,

you know, culturally getting us back into the conversation around pricing.

It's important.

It's a part of our business and it's not going away.

And so thank you for being the, the beacon of light when it

comes to sharing about that.

Thank you.

All right, everyone.

Thank you so much for joining us for this episode of Live with

The Pricing Lady, the podcast.

I wish you a great day and as always, everyone enjoy pricing.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, the podcast.

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At ThePricingLady.

com you can download a copy of my Self Assessment Pricing Scorecard.

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Or just simply book a discovery call with me.

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how I might be able to help you.

Thanks once again for joining.

Remember, pricing can hurt or help your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

See you next time and as always, enjoy pricing.