Overcoming Pricing Fear – with guest Stacey Hagen

Welcome to Live With The Pricing Lady.

I'm Janene, your hostess.

This show is all about helping you build a sustainably profitable

business while making an unbelievable impact on your world.

Learn from my 20 years of experience and from my guests as we discuss their pricing

challenges, failures, and successes.

Pricing is a way of being or behaving in your business.

My mission is to help you confidently charge for the value you deliver.

Pricing is either hurting or helping your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

In this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, I sit down with Stacy

Hagen, a holistic business coach.

Stacy shares with us, how pricing was pretty scary for her at first.

And she wants you to know it's not as scary as it seems.

She shares with us, her pricing journey and so much more.

So sit back, relax and enjoy the episode.

Welcome everyone to today's episode and welcome to my guest Stacey Hagen.

Hello Stacey.

Hi, Janene.

Thanks so much for having me.

You're welcome.

I'm so excited to have you here.

Let me share something before we get started with our, our, our

questions about how I found Stacey.

I was just telling her that I was doing some SEO research for one of

my own posts and she was one of the posts that came up or one of her

articles, one of the posts that came up when I was doing my SEO research.

And I thought, okay, we got to have this lady come on the show.

So I'm super excited to have you here with me.

Yes, and I'm so glad you found me as well.

Yeah.

So Stacey, where are you joining from today?

I am joining from just north of San Francisco in the Bay Area.

Okay.

Excellent.

Oh, that's right.

I totally forgot about that.

We're both.

That's not far from where I grew up.

That's right.

Yeah.

What would you describe as your superpower?

That's a good question.

I think probably one of my biggest superpowers is helping people who are

reticent to market their business, learn to market their business confidently.

Hmm.

Oh, that's excellent.

What's one thing, interesting thing that you'd like to share that

most people don't know about you?

Well, what can I say?

Well, I will share that I'm an introvert and maybe people who

follow me do know that about me.

But because I, I coach on marketing.

People don't often make that connection.

So I just like to tell people that because a lot of times introverts think they can't

market, they can't do things like go live on social media and you definitely can.

Yeah.

No, that's great.

I think, I think it's all about finding your way to do something

regardless of how you define yourself.

Right.

Yes, exactly.

I agree.

Cool.

Excellent.

So why don't we start then by you sharing what inspired you to start your business

and tell us a bit about what you do.

Yeah.

You know, I was really inspired to become a coach through my

experience of hiring a coach.

This was like way back in 2010 when life coaches were still new ish.

And I had such a good experience and I thought, wow, like, you know, what a

fulfilling career path this could be.

So I took the first step and enrolled in a coach training program, but at

that point I still didn't like, I didn't know I was going to start a business.

I didn't have a vision for it.

And after coach training, I dabbled in life coaching for a while.

Cause it's kind of like a natural thing to do after coach training.

And then I realized I actually missed using my business and marketing skill set.

And I, I really wanted to bring that into my work.

So that's when I transitioned to business coaching.

And why business coaching?

I

mean, I have, I have an MBA and I had so much experience in marketing.

I really like enjoy helping people with that.

So, and it, you know, it kind of, I call myself a marketing coach

as well, but it all kind of falls under the like business umbrella.

Right.

Okay.

Very good.

Excellent.

So one of the things, as I said, one of the reasons I found you because I

was doing this SEO research and you wrote a really wonderful article.

Let me just see.

I think it was titled,

life coach pricing, how to effectively price your coaching services.

So why don't you tell us a little bit more about your own journey with pricing

and what led you to, to that article?

Sure.

I think pricing is like one of the most nerve wracking parts when you're

starting your business and you're coming up with a package or an offer, you

know, for me and even the people I work with coming up with the offer is fun.

And if you know your ideal client, it can be pretty easy.

But then when it comes time to Put a number on it.

That's when it activates, all of our anxiety and any insecurities

we have about anything.

Remember that first one?

Yes.

Okay.

I was in a coach training or a coach program at that point.

And the coach encouraged us all to have a 97 offer.

And Yeah, it was a little bit weird for me because I was already

charging certain people more than that out of coach training.

I was trying to figure out, is this the right thing for me?

But, but I did it.

I ended up, raising the price shortly thereafter.

But I do think it, I do think when you're just like, you've never been

paid for anything before, if you can start at a low amount just to see like,

Oh, people will pay me for this thing.

To gain some momentum, you mean?

Yeah, momentum and even confidence.

Yeah.

You know, that first dollar that you make from your own business is huge.

It's just, it's like, Whoa, maybe I can do this.

Yeah, yeah, it is pretty exciting.

And I understand, you know, you sometimes you see the movie, like the restaurant

owner, he, Or she frames the first dollar bill they got in their business.

I can understand the, the desire to do that because it is pretty exciting.

Yeah,

it is, but it's also not sustainable.

I mean, if you're charging everyone 97, you're going to be working 24 seven

and still, and still struggling to earn what you want.

Right.

Totally.

Yes.

Yeah.

Yeah.

So, When you talk about your journey, have there been things that you

tried in terms of pricing that didn't work so well in your business?

And how did that come about?

And what did you do about it?

Yeah, good question.

I think, I mean, I definitely fell into the trap of, of underpricing.

Even when I had a bigger package I think I didn't realize like this specific type

of client I coach, they need a lot of support in between just coaching sessions.

And I realized, wow, I really need to account for my time, email coaching,

Voxer coaching, you know, which could be more than the sessions even.

So yeah, I, I did underprice and when you're underpricing, it's hard to,

Make what you want to make, but it also burns you out because how can

you take as many clients as you need?

So that's definitely a big trap I fell into.

So I'm curious, actually, I don't think I've ever asked anyone this question,

but since you've done both life coaching and business coaching, do you see a

difference in how you price the offers for those different types of coaching?

That's a really good question.

I do.

Well, it depends on the target market.

I will say that.

It depends on the target market and the value they see.

The thing with business coaching, at least in the States, is you can write it

off on your taxes as a business expense.

And so, People know that.

And also if business coaching, if you can show the ROI, right, people

are more likely to maybe invest more.

Whereas I still think sometimes people think of life coaching

similar to therapy and it's sometimes it's hard to demonstrate the ROI.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I'm also wondering, cause I find personally like with life coaching,

maybe you disagree with this, but it's.

There's not as much support needed like in between sessions and things like that, but

with business coaching, like you said, I find myself as well that people want and

can benefit from, you know, quick short calls or some access to you in between.

And it's different with business coaching in that context as well.

Yeah, I do agree with you.

With my life coaching clients, they didn't really need, I mean, if we,

especially if we met once a week, they didn't really need support.

Whereas the business coaching clients are like, you know,

can you look at my sales page?

What do I do about this client?

And, and they just do need more support.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I think that's a good distinction to make.

Like I said, I've never really thought about it that way, but

if, you know, someone's listening They're trying to decide what to do.

It's a good, good piece of information to have.

So what's been your biggest success when it comes to pricing in your own business?

You know, I think The biggest success has been creating a signature package

and allowing it to evolve over time.

Sticking with it and raising the price incrementally.

I see a lot of coaches just creating new offers all the time.

Like, here's this new thing.

It's this, here's this other new thing.

It's like, what if you just created something that was so good, it

could grow with your business.

And then I'm learning more as I deliver it.

I'm just raising the price incrementally and I'm getting known for that thing.

So, yeah,

I would say that makes sense.

I think a lot of people have shared with me that they.

Especially early in their business, they felt they couldn't raise their prices.

Like somehow that was a taboo thing to do.

And I think it's important for people to understand that not

only is it possible, it's usually necessary as you go along, right?

Yes, it's necessary.

And even like to be expected, like you should be raising your prices

because you are You're also improving, you know, as a coach and maybe you're

adding more bells and whistles.

And so, yeah, it's natural.

Yeah, it is.

It is.

Excellent.

So you work with a lot of people and I'm curious, what sort of struggles do you

see they have as they're building their businesses when it comes to pricing?

I would say just knowing where to start with pricing.

When someone's very hung up on that, I have them focus on just creating an offer.

That's so, so valuable, like, and do the market research around it to see

what your ideal clients need and want and see what they're willing to pay for.

And then just create the most valuable offer you can and map it all out

before you even think about a price.

I think sometimes we just get too hung up on the numbers and the

numbers just have to be reflective of the value of what we're providing.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree with that.

That's really important.

And I love that you keep going back to the customer because that's

one of my mantras, if you will,

because it's a lot of the, my, my Experience has been a lot of

the questions people have about what are they willing to pay?

How should I market this?

Which channel should I be on?

If they just took the time to understand the customer better, a lot

of those questions would be answered.

Oh, 100%.

Yes.

I think I don't know.

I don't really know why this is, but there's a lot of creating offers

and even marketing in a vacuum.

And it's like, no, you're doing this.

for someone else.

And it's so important that you know as much as you can

about this target audience.

They will answer your questions.

You can ask them where they hang out, where they look for materials.

You can even ask them the range that they're willing to pay.

I mean, you just cannot separate your pricing from your ideal clients.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

Actually, it's not just pricing, but building your business period.

Yeah.

Agreed.

I like to talk about it as like the North star in your business.

Yeah.

I mean, that's why, that's how we're in business, right?

Is to, to serve clients and we're in business because we have clients.

Mm hmm.

Otherwise, why are we doing this?

Yeah.

Yeah.

No, I, my experience has been a lot of people put the competition before

or their costs before the customer.

Right.

They look at it.

Those things are somehow,

I think people feel they're easier to look at.

No

The competition is not really going to talk about, talk back to you because

you can look at them from afar and your costs are going to tell you,

you know, that your idea is wrong.

Talking to customers, for a lot of people, is very scary.

Yeah, you're right.

You're right.

Yeah.

And that just, when you were mentioning that, just, that just made me think

about the number of people that, I've worked with that right away.

They're like, well, I need to make 100, 000.

How can I make 100, 000 a year?

And it's like, then they're just kind of creating things

and pricing them arbitrarily so they can make 100, 000 a year.

And it's like, let's back up, you know, and maybe you don't make that the first

year, like, let's be realistic and then price in alignment with the Ideal Client.

It's important to look at it from different aspects.

And of course cost is one aspect and the market is another

and your customer is another.

And depending on your strategy, you may lean more towards one.

of those and the other.

But if you haven't looked at them all, then you don't have a full

picture of the situation either.

Right.

Right.

Yeah.

And that, I mean, things change so fast in business, right?

You, you might like create a signature package and price it and think,

well, I don't know how I would make a hundred thousand dollars, but

maybe that package evolves and six months from now you create a course.

Like you just have to be willing to be very flexible too, I think.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely.

Absolutely.

Let's see,

boy, we've got through my questions.

So when you, when you talk to or work with your clients and help them

to understand the customer, how, what tools are you using for that?

Or how do you, how do you approach that?

Yeah, that's a good question.

One of the first things I do with clients as I have them do some,

some informal market research.

Ideal client interviews are the best for that.

But you still have to be willing to put yourself out there and

say, Hey, I'm a new career coach.

I'm looking to speak with women who are reentering the workforce.

You need to be willing to put the ask out there and put it in a lot, a lot

of different places in order to get on.

the phone or on zoom with these people and ask these questions.

So that's one thing they might do.

They might also create surveys.

They might also do some competitor research, not to copy the competitor,

but just to see like, Oh, what are other people commanding in this space?

So that's a huge focus before they even.

You know, create their package.

Thank you for saying that.

Yeah.

I find so often people create the package and then they go find

somebody to sell it to, right?

Yeah.

If you do that, it's going to take longer and you might have to start over.

I've seen that before.

Yeah.

I think

if you're in business long enough, you, you, we all have.

Yes.

And, and that's something I recommend the market research part, not just to

new business owners, but every time you're creating something new or every

time you even have an idea, like go talk to people and try to validate it

first before you go down that path.

Yeah.

And I'm a big believer in, in customer interviews myself.

So but I also am very,

let's say, clear that there are product validation interviews and then there

are customer insight interviews.

And to me, those are two very different things because one is kind

of, let me understand, you know, what you're challenged with in a day in

your life and, you know, how you go about making decisions around that.

Solving that problem.

And the other is this is my offer.

This is the solution I have for your problem.

What do you, what is your feedback on it?

There are two very different discussions.

And I find a lot of times people mix up the two.

You're right.

And that makes it really hard in marketing and in pricing.

Yeah, yeah, I agree with you.

That's a really good distinction too.

The first step would be them asking those general questions.

What are your challenges?

What are your desires?

And then putting together some type of prototype and then maybe

running it by those folks again in a different type of way.

I also like the interview because it's It's a way of connecting

with people who might be customers without it being a sales discussion.

And so you're already building a relationship and a rapport with someone

in a way that is for them, you know, very non threatening and it actually can, can

help not just with, you know, pricing.

Creating your package and pricing it right, but also with just

building the relationships and getting them to a point where they

might be willing to buy something.

Agreed.

And I think it's non threatening for both sides.

Cause I mean, I work with a lot of people who are scared

to sell and market anything.

So it's like, Oh, this is just literally a conversation.

You with another person talking about the challenges.

When you take the pitch off the table, it's just, it's a more

authentic discussion, I think.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Yeah.

I agree.

I agree.

So when I, when, let me circle back to, to the pricing topic here, because I'd

like to know, you know, what are one or two tips that you have for people when

it comes to doing that first price?

Yeah.

You know what I would say, for everyone, but especially when

you're doing your first price, Uncouple your worth from your price.

Like this whole charge what you're worth.

Advice like, I don't even understand it, but no, you're not

charging what you're worth, right?

Like that's like impossible.

You are charging a price based on your level of skillset and

what your ideal client is looking for and the value they perceive.

It has nothing to do with your worthiness as a human or as a business owner.

So just.

Just stop and, and, and don't be afraid to experiment and, and

don't be afraid to start at a lower place than where you want to be.

I mean, you want to be confident when you say that number, whether

it's 500 or 5, 000, you want to be confident when you say that.

So start with that.

And then, you know, I recommend to my clients, make a commitment to yourself.

Like once you get five clients, 10 clients enrolled, you're

going to raise your price.

And

just make that commitment at the beginning.

Yeah.

And I think it's also important to point out with that tip that, you

know, when you're in a business like coaching where your customers don't

generally come back and buy from you again and again and again, the same

thing, it's easier to be able to do that.

Yeah.

Whereas if you have repeat, if you're in a business where you have repeat

customers, then it's a little bit trickier to do price increases like that.

That I think that I see

that that's a really good distinction.

And what I would say to that is like, you know, even when I raise my prices,

if a client has been with me for an extended period of time, they're still

grandfathered into their original price.

Mm-Hmm.

. Mm-Hmm.

. Mm-Hmm.

. Yeah.

So, yeah, good point.

You do wanna be conscious about that?

Yeah.

Yeah.

Oh, cool.

Excellent.

So, Stacy, I'm gonna wrap this up with a few more questions and the first one

is, what is it you'd like people to remember most from our conversation today?

Just that pricing doesn't have to be scary and it's something

that you can change at any time.

I mean, I feel like there's this fear of, oh, if I choose this price,

it just has to be my price forever.

Or if I create this package, it has to be my offering forever.

You could change it.

Yeah, I've used mine plenty of times.

Totally.

Yeah, me too.

Taken apart, put together, taken apart, put together.

Okay.

No, that's excellent.

That's excellent.

I think yeah, you're right.

Absolutely right.

Don't be afraid of it and, and don't be worried that you can't

change it because you always can.

Excellent.

Is there a favorite book or tool or podcast or something

you'd like to share with us?

Oh,

gosh.

About pricing or about anything?

Anything.

It's been a while since I've read this book, but The Prosperous Coach

is a good book for for coaches and coaches just starting out, I would say.

Yeah.

Okay, good.

We'll put the link to that in the show notes so that everybody can check it out.

And my last question is, if people would like to reach out to you to find

out more about how to work with you and what you do, where should we go?

Sure.

The best place is probably my website, which is createcoachingconsulting.

com.

And you can find my blog posts, a quiz and anything else.

So we'll put links to the two blog posts that I stumbled across in the show

notes along with her website address and her social media links as well.

So you'll be able to reach out to Stacy.

Stacy, thank you so much for joining us today.

I so much appreciate, so very much appreciate you being here with me.

Thanks Janene.

It's been a pleasure.

I wish you a great day and as always enjoy pricing.

Thank you for listening to this episode of Live with The Pricing Lady, the podcast.

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com you can download a copy of my Self Assessment Pricing Scorecard.

Find out where it's going well and where you can begin improving.

Or just simply book a discovery call with me.

There we can discuss what's up with pricing in your business and

how I might be able to help you.

Thanks once again for joining.

Remember, pricing can hurt or help your business.

Let's make sure it's helping you reach your dreams.

See you next time and as always, enjoy pricing.