Podcast Websites: Still Necessary or Just a Digital Dinosaur?

Do we still need to create podcast websites?

This is the future of podcasting, where.

We ponder what awaits the podcasters of today.

From the school of podcasting, here's Dave Jackson.

And from the Audacity to Podcast, here's Daniel J.

Lewis.

Daniel, future of podcasting, episode number 57.

Do we still need to make podcast websites?

I hope so, as I work for one, but I don't know.

What do you think?

Well, that's what we should think about with the future of podcasting.

And just like there are 57 Heinz varieties, mythically there are more than 57 ways that you could create a podcast website.

And we've come such a long way since many years ago when it was basically like movable type.

And then thing called WordPress came along, made a lot of that easier.

But WordPress for so long has still been complicated to use.

But more recently it's gotten better with plugins like Divi Elementor, Beaver Builder and such.

And even WordPress itself now has the block editor, which I think is fantastic.

I know some people don't like it, but I think it's great.

And, and the block editor is spreading its little tendrils throughout the WordPress website experience so that making a website with WordPress is getting so easier and making it easier to look better.

So we've come a long way in all of that self managed stuff.

But then, and this is not sponsored, but Dave, do give a pitch for why people would Even think about PodPage and what gap it's filling.

I think my favorite thing that a customer has ever said is we, we changed our navigation.

So we did some, some surveying, we brought people in, we said, we kind of want to watch you try to figure this out without telling you where to go.

And he said, okay.

I'm like, so what's the first thing you do when you log into PodPage?

And he goes, Fellas, I haven't logged into PodPage in about six months.

He goes, you guys do everything for me.

We're like, that is a good answer.

So yeah, pulls everything in from your RSS feed and we've been adding more and more stuff to it ever since then.

So it's good.

But you also forgot Dreamweaver and Microsoft Front Page back in the day.

What?

No, I didn't forget it.

I scrubbed those things from my memory.

Yeah, back in the day I taught a lot of Microsoft Front page.

It was a horrible product that made really, really bad code, but you could make your own website.

Ick.

And that's when you'd have web hosts that were like front page compatible.

Because in true Microsoft fashion, there was all this proprietary stuff running in the background.

And then you've got wix, of course, and Squarespace.

WIX is interesting.

Their marketing really sucked me in and I was going to make just a basic site for my church and it reminded me of something designed by Google.

Now this was probably about four years ago.

So, you know, your mileage may vary, but I remember you would kind of go into like the word, the, the website editor and the navigation would change.

Like it was almost like two separate programs that were somehow under one umbrella.

And you'd be like, oh, I'm going to do this or I'm going to do this.

But the minute you're like, oh, I now need to pull up the name of the page and when I click on Edit, it was just completely different.

And all their commercials are like, oh, so easy.

Anybody can make a website.

And I'm like, look, I've been making websites for decades.

I'm getting lost in your navigation.

And of course Squarespace has really pretty websites.

I mean, I know I have a friend of mine that does photography and her website's amazing, you know, so it's the only thing.

And I actually looked about four months ago.

There is no podcast, you know, theme or whatever you would call it, template.

It's all, you know, churches, gyms, restaurants, entrepreneurs, small business.

And I'm like, is there a podcast thing over here?

Well, I think though, and I know what you're saying, like back in the days of WordPress, the earlier days of WordPress, that is when we had to have a podcast theme.

Now we don't have to so much because you can pretty much turn any theme into a quote podcast theme, unquote, by simply adding a player and some subscribe and follow buttons, which many of the themes provide.

Or you can get third party plugins for those things or you can easily put them on yourself nowadays.

And so it's not like you have to have a podcast theme.

And I think some of these third party, if we could call them that, these website builder systems like Squarespace and Wix and such are getting better at handling podcast needs, even though they don't have a podcasting system per se, or if they do, it's not a very good one.

But they often have things like if you drop in a link to an MP3 file, it displays this beautiful audio player, or if you drop in a video, it displays this player.

Or you can easily make buttons that link to Apple podcasts and Spotify and wherever else you want it to go.

That kind of stuff that turns their website into a podcast website, that they didn't have that kind of stuff not long ago.

No.

And you do have to be careful with wix.

And again, this is probably from four years ago and it was beautiful.

You could put in your RSS feed and it would turn them into, you know, episodes on your website.

But it wasn't till later I figured it out.

They are re hosting your MP3 files.

Oh, that's bad.

And I was like, I noticed that when I put my, my mouse over the download button in the bottom left hand corner, I could see the URL.

And I'm like, that's not Libsyn.

I'm like, that's.

And I was like, oh, this is such a bummer.

And this is where sometimes you get, you know, different companies that aren't podcast companies and they kind of dip their toe into the podcasting and you're like, oh, yeah, no, and I get it.

You know, you could argue that if you're lucky.

I guess it depends on you, the technology, familiarity with your audience.

You know, I know some people, they have a lot of people that will listen to the podcast on their website.

But in my travels it's, you know, 3 to 5%.

But if I had a.

Maybe an older audience that didn't have a smartphone, something like that.

I've always said that your podcast website should be as easy as Visit website press play.

So that when you tell people how to get your podcast, you say the name of your podcast and hopefully you have a dot com or some kind of other dot whatever that top level domain is, the dot whatever thing, something that makes sense and is memorable for your podcast and understandable so that people can visit your website and press play on your latest episode.

How much that actually happens these days?

Yeah, I don't know.

Well, that's the question, because I just saw a video of Pat Flynn, who I've known for years, and I consider him a friend, and his video was, do you really need a website?

And he was saying.

And even at the end kind of said, okay, I'm going to say it before you say it to me.

And that is.

He was like, look, there's.

Because I think he has a really huge TikTok following for his Pokemon stuff that he's doing.

And he's doing that with his kid.

And there are people that are building huge followings on YouTube and TikTok.

And you know, even back in the day, there were people that were really into Clubhouse and things like that.

And he was saying, and there is.

I forget the name of the store, Sam Store or something like that.

Not Sam Card, it was something store.

I'll put a link to the video.

And he was kind of saying, look, just build your audience on these platforms.

And this particular product he was promoting, you could have a scheduling.

It was kind of like a.

A tricked out link tree where you can sell things, products and services, you could do calendars, you could do all sorts of stuff.

And so his idea was grow your audience on whatever platform you're using and then send them to your store.

Then I was like, okay, kind of.

I see the point.

And then at the very end, he's like.

And I realize that if you say the wrong thing on YouTube and you get deplatformed, you're kind of back to.

And that's what he said.

When we build a website, nobody knows it, nobody knows it's there.

It's up to you to help it get found.

And they even said there's a whole industry about SEO where it's easier to get found on TikTok and YouTube and other platforms.

And then you just point them at your store.

And I was like, it's an interesting concept, but my biggest worry is just the fact that, you know, we've seen, you know, Friendster, MySpace, you know, we've seen even Facebook, even though it's still popular.

You know, for a couple of years there, we saw with Tom Webster that the popularity of Facebook was going down because the young kids don't want to be on the same platform as their mom and dad.

So it's an interesting thing.

And then there's the whole AI thing where if you go to Google and type something in or.

I know.

Do you use Perplexity now more than Google or other tools, or are you still going to google.com to do search?

If I want to find something, I search.

I use DuckDuckGo instead of Google.

But if I want an answer, I use AI because Google and DuckDuckGo and all of the search engines, I don't know what they've done in the last few years, but they have become less helpful.

Like, they're trying to be helpful, and I think they're trying to make it for people who don't know how to use a search engine.

But I know what I'm looking for, so stop suggesting stuff to me that you think I want that's not actually what I'm looking for.

Like, they'll ignore search terms.

So I end up having to put quotation marks around every individual word because that's the way you force it to know.

You want a search that comes up with these words.

Because it's so frustrating.

When I search for a term, I see a headline that looks like it's relevant, I click on it, and then I discover one of the crucial keywords that I was searching for is nowhere to be found on that page.

Because the search engine decided, well, this looks like something you might be wanting.

And so we'll offer this to you.

So that's where some of the AI, especially when it comes to coding questions for me, as I'm programming podgagement, some stuff is so specific that, like, maybe no one else has asked on the Internet, or I have trouble just explaining it.

So I'm not sure what terms to even search for.

But the AI often tends to answer the question for me or enough that I can look further from that.

But I do still use search.

What about you, though?

Yeah, it's funny because Google became Google, because Netscape and Hotbot and Lycos and all those, it was better.

You got the information you were looking for.

It was faster and it was cleaner.

And now when you just type a basic search, the first page pretty much is all ads.

And I'm like, I'd rather I'm looking for something organic versus somebody that paid it there.

And depending on the situation, but a lot of times I'm looking for an impartial kind of website.

And so it's weird.

I used to never go to page two.

It was always, you know, whoever made it to the front page.

Now I almost purposely skip and go to page two, and sometimes I'll see the kind of organic listing of one of the websites that was on page one, but they paid for it.

I'm like, okay, so these guys must have some sort of, you know, pull here.

And I'll look at that.

But a lot, same thing.

If I'm doing research for a podcast, I will go to Perplexity and I'll.

It's.

That one is the one.

I think it's Perplexity AI, if I remember right, because it automatically gives you sources.

And so I can go there, ask it a very specific question, and it will answer the question, and then give me, you know, five or six links.

And I always go one.

Like, I'll click on the link to see, well, was this AI generated?

Like, is there a human anywhere in this chain of information?

And it seems to be faster than when I use Google.

And I was like, all Right.

I think this is my new tool.

And I haven't played with Claude yet.

And I know whatever Elon's thing on my.

On Twitter is that there's something you can use to make stuff.

But I heard about perplexity, and that's the one I was like, very much like Google.

I'm like, oh, I go here, I type a question and I get an answer that I can use.

And I love the fact that it gives you.

And you can do this in ChatGPT, where you can ask, like, to list your sources, because I always want to put those in the show notes to let people know where I got it from.

But, yeah, I'm starting to do that more and more.

I'm trying to think of.

I think I have.

My default address bar is set up to use Bing, of all things, because I think I somehow get paid to use Bing.

I have yet to earn a penny from it, but somebody said you can earn like, you know, 30 bucks a year by, you know, basically using Bing as your default search engine.

And I'm like, I'll try it.

It's not horrible.

You know, it's kind of weird sometimes when video stuff will come up and you'll click on the video and then you end up in some sort of weird Yahoo video page.

You're like, wait, I'm in.

Yahoo.

Exist.

Yeah, yeah, it's.

It's going to be interesting to see what, what AI does, because if people aren't going to the websites anymore or they're just taking that main link that Google serves up, like, oh, here's the answer.

And instead of seeing all the other answers on the website, they just go to that first one.

I know Todd Cochran always calls it kingmakers.

AI is going to be kingmakers.

They're going to.

Whoever wins that, that battle for the top recommendation.

Well, that's the odd thing, though, is that there isn't a top recommendation.

The AI, because of the way the AI works, is it's really just guessing what the next logical word should be or what should come after.

So it's recognizing patterns, it's filling in patterns.

That's why for years I've said things like, AI is great at making sentences.

Sometimes those sentences can be completely wrong, but it's a sentence that makes sense as a sentence, at least to some degree.

But that's going to get better.

So we can't just rely on it being bad.

But still, there is some randomness involved in it.

Especially, like, if you look at some of the ways that the images can be generated.

Kind of helps you understand how the AI works.

Where an image will start out with just static, like from the old 80s TVs.

It starts out with static and then it slowly an image emerges from the static.

And that's kind of similar to how it's generating written content, is that it starts with essentially some kind of random calculation and then it builds from there.

So if you ask it a question, like if you ask what are the best podcasts about podcasting.

I know that Todd and Rob have talked about this on new media show a couple times where they've gotten different and different orders because the AI, for whatever reason put them in a different order.

Maybe it looked randomly at a different data set, maybe.

Well, some of the things even that were in the recommendations weren't publishing episodes for many years had been abandoned or dead.

And some of the stuff that the AI uses, I don't know that it's prioritized in recency, whereas like a search result is prioritized in recency and backlinks and link authority and all of that kind of thing.

But the AI, yes, there's a whole thing of the training data of how recently was it trained and how recent is its knowledge.

Like when I first started getting into AI was just around the time that Covid started becoming a thing.

So one of the things that we were talking about at that point was saying the AI doesn't know what Covid is, but you can kind of sort of prime it with some information about this is what Covid is.

Now help me write an article about this thing that I just told you about.

Well, now it does know what Covid is because the data has been updated.

But like, if a new podcast launches today, then a month from now, will the AI know about it?

Maybe because they are making the AI systems faster, integrating live search results into some of these things.

So that live search is done through website search.

So if a website doesn't exist, that information still isn't going to get exposed to the AI.

And I'm not so sure they want to train the AI to search for things like YouTube videos or podcast episodes.

Have you ever, in your use of the AI, perplexity especially, has it ever given you a link to a YouTube video?

I don't think so.

As soon as you said that, I was like, hey, you know what?

It always sends me to websites.

There's never.

I'm sitting here think, I don't think so.

It's always been.

And what's interesting is I'm often getting websites.

I'VE never heard of, you know, but I'll go there.

I'm like, oh, this is an authority on such and such or some news outlet that I've never heard of.

And at least first impression is like, oh, this is a pretty cool website.

I didn't realize that they were covering this topic.

And then the articles are always decently written and they go deep into a subject.

And I'm currently looking up how effective is email versus social media.

And it's pretty interesting that, you know, there's a reason email, which has been around since dinosaurs basically compared to the latest technology, but yet it's still here.

And it's because you, you basically get somebody on your newsletter.

There's.

They're one click away from doing whatever you want.

And so I have found all sorts of interesting stats on that, but that's through perplexity.

And I think I used Google a little bit, but that again, as soon as I went to Google it was like, ugh, hold on.

You know, and then of course Google's gonna give you videos and if heaven help you if you click on a video, because I cannot escape shorts on my lunch.

I watch YouTube and I went to my subscriptions and almost every subscription I went to, it was.

I just had to scroll and scroll.

Like, where's the actual.

Like, I understand that that's a short version of the long version of the file I want to see.

I'm like, I don't want the snippet, I want the actual long thing.

So that's always kind of interesting.

But yeah, I don't think I've ever used AI for search and had it give me a video that's interesting.

So I kind of wonder, bringing this back to the question we raised earlier, even though it's getting so much easier to make really good websites and that is great and it's only going to get easier and the websites are going to get better.

So there's that.

But also, I'm not going to say that people are going to get dumber, but they're going to use dumber tools.

Like, more and more people are relying on AI to give them the answer.

And the AI is being built into many of the search engines.

And there's an aspect where I've taught this for years, talking about, like, how thorough your shownotes should be for your podcast episodes.

And wouldn't you rather someone get the information from you, even if it means reading it instead of listening to it, because at least they got it from you?

Well, the problem now is that if you've put really thorough information out onto your website, unless you do the technical thing to block the AIs, they will ingest that information, they'll repurpose it and use that information in their answer.

And even if they give you credit for that answer, I think it's probably not going to be likely that people will visit that link.

If they got the answer from the AI, they're probably not going to go listen to a podcast episode about that thing.

But yeah, that's the thing the click through, but continue.

This is all with the assumption of the kind of content people are looking for.

Generally helpful content is where people are looking for answers.

And if they get the answer, then they'll take that answer and leave.

But if you're looking at something like you do an audio drama, what is the search benefit for that?

The SEO is completely different for audio dramas or comedy or TV after show podcasts, or even news current event style podcasts.

That's very different SEO for those.

And that's where I think people won't rely on the AI so much.

They might ask the AI for a list of recommendations like, hey, tell me the best comedy podcasts.

And the only way to end up on that list is to have an Internet presence of some sort.

Yeah, yeah, that, that's the thing.

I, I've only watched two videos on is SEO dead?

You know, like, should we even bother trying to have our websites get found?

And the two I've watched and I'm assuming these people know what they're talking about because they came up at the top of the YouTube search, so, you know, they've got to have something going on.

And they both kind of said, it looks like at this point that the way you get found is in AI is the same way you get found in websites.

Basically make great content, personal stories, squish your images, have a fast site.

Basically everything that you do for SEO are the same things that help you get found in AI.

And I was like, well, that's interesting, but that's a whopping survey of two videos.

So we'll see and it's going to be interesting to see how this turns out when we're basically asking a robot for the answer.

If they only give us one answer, hopefully they'll give us more than one.

But the ones I've seen, it's usually, I think what usually Perplexity usually does is it usually answers the question and then does the Google thing where it gives you kind of like four different questions, but they also kind of show you the answer.

So you're getting the answer to the thing you asked, but they're kind of previewing answers to the questions you haven't asked.

And I always thought that was like, well, that gives you again, another chance to maybe get a click.

But it's going to be interesting to see because I expect it's weird.

On one hand, you could then say, well, what's the point of having a website?

But if we can't rely on search, then we've got to pour gas on word of mouth.

And where are you going to send people?

Well, send them to something you own.

So it's been a while.

I think it's probably five years old now.

But there was a stat that Jacobs Media had that 70% of podcasts are discovered via word of mouth.

Well, okay.

And you don't want to say, oh, just find them wherever you find podcasts.

Because I hate that phrase.

I hate that phrase.

And I have.

I think I have one or two videos on my YouTube channel showing how you can type in the name of somebody's show and it just won't show up.

You have to search for them by name or something like that.

Or maybe it's just the, you know, I always go back to the.

The title of the.

Of the show called Thinking Outside the Box.

And the last time I checked, I think there were 26 shows named Thinking Outside the Box.

So you don't show up because you're number, you know, 32 or something like that.

So, yeah, it's one of those things where having a website with an easy way to follow the show, like you said, go to website, click play, and then have a button right there to follow would be a great strategy.

Yeah.

And as much as you and I are both proponents of a website, let's put ourselves here in the spotlight of.

Well, when you hear someone say a podcast and you want to check out that podcast, what do you actually do?

You, Dave, what do you actually do?

I pull up pocketcast.com.

that's right.

Now my.

And I do a search there.

And I just did this.

The Shan man does a show called the Podcast Therapist.

And I was like, I didn't know.

He rebranded and went over and found it and followed.

So, yeah, I look in the app, but I'm looking specifically for a show.

I'm not going into apps and going show me podcasts about podcasting.

I'm usually looking for a show, and if it's an actual podcast, it will show up.

I've seen some things where people are like, I try to find this person's podcast, and one person was on iHeart, so they were using Spreaker, but they had not listed their show anyplace else besides iheart.

Because in the same way that Spotify kind of has their own little Spotify Kool Aid.

And just stay here and use Spotify.

From what I'm seeing, you know, if you're on Spreaker, they're kind of like, oh, we're owned by iheart, so you just need iheart.

And I'm like, wow, that's a really bad marketing strategy.

But, yeah, what do you do when somebody says, oh, you gotta check out this show?

Same thing.

I open my app, which right now is still Overcast.

I search for the podcast, but it gets really frustrating when it is one of those titles that is not unique.

And then you have to ask the person, is this the right one?

Or you see it, like, if someone is up on stage, you can't ask them, is this the right podcast?

But there's probably something they're showing on the screen, like their cover art, so you can make sure that you're following the right podcast.

Because I know that for Overcast, especially if you get into the podcasting 2.0 apps, it's very likely that even if you go to that person's website, they're not going to have a button for that podcast app.

And to be blunt, I don't think they should because there are so many podcast apps out there.

To fill a website with all of those buttons is completely unreasonable.

But that's where I think some future technology can help with this.

Two aspects.

Think about in person and think about offline or online rather, when you're not in person.

So the in person, the technology that has me most excited.

Yeah, QR codes can do some things, and that can play into either one of these solutions that I'll mention.

But I love the idea of the NFC beacons, like our friend Matthew Passi, podcastbeacon.com and I've partnered with him for some stuff for Podgagement too, because we make follow pages for podcasts as part of Podgagement.

Sign up@podgagement.com and the really cool thing about the NFC Beacons, Dave, you've received it too.

Have you played with it, like, seen what it does?

I have, and it's not its fault.

It's the fact that everybody's phone is a little different.

So when it works, like my favorite thing, somebody said, oh, what is that?

Because I had one and it looked almost like A watch.

And it had the School of Podcasting logo on.

It was really cool.

And I just put it up to somebody's watch and was like, there it is.

I was like, oh, that is so sweet.

And then I don't know if it was.

Maybe they had an Android or what, but in some cases, you have to figure out, do I put the beacon at the top of the phone or the middle or things like that?

So that's not a big deal.

But it's just sometimes you're like, oh, check this out.

And then, like, nothing happens.

And then you slowly move your.

Your arm down, and then it works.

You're like, see, it's so cool.

I planned it that way.

But yeah, it's.

And if you have somebody that is unfamiliar with those, it's like some sort of magic voodoo.

They're like, wait, what?

What did you do to do that?

So, yeah, they're pretty slick.

What I love about that over QR codes is it's much faster, at least on my iPhone.

When I've done it with the podcast Beacon is I tap my phone to the beacon, it pops up a notification.

I tap on that notification, and then my iPhone asks to unlock or automatically unlocks if it's the face id and it opens to that webpage.

Whereas to do a QR code, you have to go to your camera, which may or may not involve unlocking your phone first.

Then you have to point it at the thing, make sure you get it in focus.

Sometimes, you know, that's a challenge.

Or get the lighting just right to be able to see it.

Although they're getting better at reading that without all of that or even being perfectly in focus.

Some of them are good at that, too.

Then you, though, still have to tap on the link to confirm that you want to do whatever that QR code does.

And then you've arrived at the landing page.

Whereas the QR code does all of that in multiple steps.

Then the NFC beacon does it in just one or two taps, and you're following the podcast, but that's still taking you to a website.

Yeah, for me, if you think about that scenario in an elevator, and somebody says, oh, you have a podcast.

And you're like, oh, yeah, I do a podcast that helps people play and launch and grow their audience.

And then if you feel so bold, go, where's your phone?

And have them pull it out, because everybody has their phone in their hand.

And just go, here, hold it up to this thing on my wrist, and presto, there's your website.

So now You've got a new follower.

And so that's the other thing for me, the beacon thing.

I was like, oh, this is a perfect way to close your elevator pitch.

And that's great for the in person stuff.

Whether that's the beacon or the QR code, I think the beacon is superior.

It's really cool too.

I think it, when you make it cool like that, that helps make an impression on people, maybe gets more excited and also makes it more memorable to them.

What about when you're not in person?

Then it's you either have to tell the name of your podcast or you give them your website.

But there's always that chance that there are multiple results and you're number 30 in the search results or you have a weird to spell podcast name.

And then the domain is also difficult too.

There's that.

So there are like all of these other complications when it starts looking at when you have to tell someone from a remote distance and you're not there to show them a QR code or to tap a beacon to their phone.

Thankfully, there's some technology being developed.

It's been a little bit abandoned, but I'm still a big fan of this.

I want cross app comments before this feature though.

But still, I'm a big fan of this feature.

If we can just get everyone on board for it.

It was called Fast Follow and the idea behind Fast Follow would be that you could with your podcast app engage with something and that could be scan a QR code, touch an NFC chip or enter something AOL keyword.

No, not like that.

But maybe something though.

Like that.

Maybe it is.

You enter a keyword or you enter a code or an address or something like that into the podcast app and it takes you directly to that podcast listing in the app.

Now that's obvious where if you search for something, then you can tap on the listing.

But this would be.

Imagine scanning a QR code like we do this at conferences a lot where you've got the Whova app or some other conference specific app and then you can scan someone's badge and it automatically adds them to your contacts.

Imagine that same kind of thing for the podcast app, where with the podcast app you scan a QR code or you touch.

With that app open, you touch an NFC badge and then it automatically takes you to that podcast still inside the podcast app.

So completely bypassing loading a webpage page, it just automatically detects you are scanning this QR code or visiting this web address from this podcast app.

Therefore, because you're already in the podcast app.

Jump to this listing in the podcast app.

That's fast follow, and that kind of thing, I think, could radically simplify the process.

There's some debate, and I know I've sparked some of the debate on exactly the technical aspects of how to do this.

The.

The two basic ways that have been discussed are you add some extra stuff to the end of a URL, any URL.

It could even be google.com and then this.

The podcast GUID is basically what we'd be looking at.

And so if a podcast app recognizes that podcast guid in the URL, regardless of if it's google.com or your own domain or whatever, it sees that GUID and it jumps to that.

My contention with that is that it requires you to put that in the URL, Right?

Which, if you've got a QR code on a business card and you've printed out 10,000 business cards, you may not be able to point that URL somewhere else or to add that code in the way that the app needs it.

I mean, maybe you could redirect, but then the app needs to make sure it follows a redirect.

The other way that I've proposed to do it is some kind of code on the page.

Like, either it's something that's in the HTML head code, like where JavaScript goes and some of the meta information that Facebook and social networks read, or it's something in even the header information on the URL, which is harder and more technical to get data into there.

But that's like, where the information about the type of content on the page goes, or when it was last modified, or the compression, certain information about that that goes into there, whatever technical method is.

I think we could make this awesome so that people go directly to your podcast without question or confusion, without leaving their podcast app.

There's so much that, like in podcasting 2.0, we're doing to help people stay in their podcast apps and not have to go elsewhere.

And this is one of those things.

Yeah, that would be so easy, you know, especially if, you know, like, for me, as much as I love the podcasting 2.0 apps, if somebody says, where do you want me to listen?

I'm probably gonna point them at least right now, until we get some things fixed in 2.0 land, but to Apple and Spotify.

Why?

Because I can see how far they listen, and that's a really important stat to me.

Now, if we could get that someplace else, that'd be great.

But if you're trying to you know, build an audience in a certain app.

If you had that fast follow and you could point people at a certain app, you know, that'd be.

I know, I think it's Castbox.

I know a couple of people did some sort of promotion with them, but you had to send a lot of people to Castbox to get them to then promote you.

It was kind of a pay for play with no money.

But it was like when you have so many subscribers, we will feature you in this app.

Well, with a fast follow you could here scan this and send them over to Castbox or whatever app you're using.

So that could be very cool.

The other alternative, because that's still talking about like the in person or the QR code that's true.

Yeah.

Is.

Well, you can't really do that kind of thing completely reliably just by a URL or something.

But what could be done is, and I think Nathan Gatright has done a great job of this with Episodes FM and he beat me to building this kind of technology.

But it is coming for the feature in Pod Gaugement is that if people land on a follow page, whether that's on your website or you using a third party tool, that follow page could give.

I think it should both remember and give this option to the user of do you want to remember this app?

Like whatever app it is that you tap on.

So of course.

Well, I say of course, but I think it should be obvious that whatever page that is, when you visit it on an Apple device, it only shows Apple compatible apps.

Same thing if you're on an Android only Android apps.

That's why I do it with follow the Podcast.com, which is a feature of podgagement that should be a given so people don't get confused by seeing multiple things.

On the iPhone side, there is no way to know what podcast apps are installed on the device, so the user has to see the list.

But if there could be something that's used so much, Whether that's episodes FM, follow the podcast.com, wordPress plugin, whatever that is on so many podcast websites that if people visit that then they say I want to always open these kinds of links in this podcast app from here on out, then the website could set a cookie.

Now cookies and local storage and stuff gets complicated, especially with different websites.

But it is a path there.

On the Android side it's a bit easier because Blubrry pioneered the subscribe on Android.com feature which built code into podcast apps that could read some of this information.

And on the Android side, you can set a default podcast app.

And I believe you will be able to do that at some point in the future on Apple devices, because you're starting to see Apple more and more, allow users to set app.

A default app like email.

Now, you can do that with messaging.

You can do that with a web browser.

I think they'll enable that option soon for maybe it automatically detects a podcast RSS feed.

Like it would detect the contents of the feed and recognize immediately this is a podcast feed.

So let's open it in whatever the default podcast app is, which, interestingly then could make the.

The necessity of linking to your podcast feed through a button on your website all the more relevant again.

Yeah, yeah.

And, you know, and a lot of people are like, well, I'm just going to do a link tree.

And I get that.

I have a link tree type site, but I only have that because somebody would occasionally ask me, look, Dave, you have, you know, whatever, seven different podcasts in a book and this and that, and they're like, where can I find everything you do?

And that's the only time I have that website is if you want it again, it's ugly.

You go in there.

There's this big giant list of links of things that Dave does.

But in terms of SEO, there's just nothing there.

And so for me, I think as long as if SEO is dwindling right now, that's fine.

I'm going to wait till it's dead and buried to get rid of my website to where Then I send them to a, you know, link tree or a store or something like that.

But that.

That just doesn't seem.

I don't want to put all my faith in a social platform where I call all my followers on.

It's on the new, you know, chat face.

It's the new thing all the kids are using.

I'm like, yeah, I don't want to put my.

I mean, just this week, I have a Facebook page for the school of podcasting.

And I never, ever post to it.

I forgot it was there, so I copied something and pasted it there.

Well, I had, you know, UTM tracking stuff from.

So I could see if this, you know, send any traffic.

Well, Facebook didn't like the fact that the links weren't necessarily obvious, I guess, or whatever, or confused them.

I was like, really?

You don't understand.

And the post was banned.

Like, we've removed this pan because you were spamming people.

And I was.

So then I clicked on, like, how is this spam?

And it was like, well, some of your links were not clear as to where you were sending people.

And I was like, unless I used.

I used Switchy IO, which is kind of my version of bitly.

Maybe I had a bitly thing, but you think even that they would.

It was just, I just was like, oh, and this is why I hate social media.

I was like, okay, fine, that's the end of me posting to my Facebook page.

I totally forgot I had it.

So that's the thing.

And as Daniel said at the beginning of this, it's so easy now to make a website.

You know, you're looking at, I don't know, 15, 20 bucks a month depending on the scenario.

By the time though, like for me with WordPress, I have to have word fence.

I have to, or I will just get, you know, hacked to death.

So that's $150 a year I use.

Is it social warfare?

Yeah, something warfare plugins.

That's another fee.

Then I have.

Even though my host backs it up, I always have an external backup.

And by the time you get done, I'm like, oh, it's not 20 bucks a month anymore, but it's worth it to have it.

And for now I definitely think it's worth it.

Plus, if we want to go on another 10 minute tangent, we could talk about how are you going to get people to sign up for your newsletter?

Well, or anything else that you want them to take action on.

It's so much easier if you can build that with your own branding.

Like I tell people, never say Patreon or buy me a coffee or whatever to your audience, your domain slash.

And then something generic on it, whether that's support, give back, whatever.

Because then you can change your tools, but your branding is front and center.

And then the more people hear that, the more they only need to remember just whatever comes after that slash.

But a metaphor here that I've been thinking of is we always say that like a website is your home on the Internet.

Well, with all of these social websites and all of these places, there is still a place for that.

Like when you have friends or you're getting together with friends or family, there might be, oh yeah, meet me at such and such place.

You know, I'll be at the club by the club, I mean Costco.

I'll be here.

Or come join me here.

I'll be doing a demonstration over there or having a party at this place.

But if you really want to find me, come to my home.

There's that Kind of thing where your website, I think, will always be your home.

And even by your website, that might even technically be only your domain, even though that's pointing to something else.

But I think there will always be the need for podcasters to have a home on the Internet, and I think that needs to be their own webpage.

Yeah, you hit the nail on the head there.

If nothing else, if you're like, well, I don't know if I want to do this or should I use get a domain and start using that in your show, and then you can redirect it on a show I do that's live.

It's askthepodcastcoach.com live every Saturday.

And the reason I do that is from time to time, we will switch what we're using for technology.

Normally I use eCamm, but maybe I want to use eVmux for a week or two and see what it's like or, you know, all those different tools.

Well, my audience still knows to go to askthepodcastcoach.com live.

So, like Daniel said, reinforces your brand.

PodPage has a ton of those where it's slash follow voicemail newsletter, episode number it's all.

And the reason for that is number one, Slash sponsor is another one.

It reinforces your brand and that's really where you want people to remember so that in the event TikTok goes away, you know, they're like, oh, I remember his website, though.

And they're on your website.

It's like, hey, welcome, TikTok strandees.

We're here now and I'm on the new, you know, whatever, Boot blue ground social media.

I'm trying to think of the opposite.

Let me go register that and trademark it.

Yes.

Boot brown ground.

Yes.

It's the new social media.

All the kids are doing it.

Yeah.

So did we have any boostagrams?

No, Boostigrams.

I did see some streaming stats come in, so thank you very much for those and feel free to send boostergrams.

Big ones are better.

All right, that is going to do it for episode 57 of the Future of podcasting.

If you like this show, tell a friend.

If you hate this show, tell two friends.

Keep boosting, keep podcasting and keep that website online.