Unlocking Podcast Success: Essential Best Practices with Alex Sanfilippo

He surveyed 1600 podcasters.

And today, with Alex Sanfilippo, we're talking about podcasting best practices.

Welcome to Podcast Website Tips, the ultimate guide for podcasters who want to level up their online presence with no coding required.

Whether you're a seasoned pro or just getting started, this show gives you practical, actionable advice to build and optimize your podcast website.

We cover everything from design and content to SEO and monetization.

Get ready to attract more listeners and take your website from good to great.

Here's your host, Dave Jackson.

Hey.

Every month we get together and bring the PodPage community together to talk about different subjects.

And this month we brought along Alexandfilippo.

Here's our discussion.

How are you, buddy?

Dave.

I'm doing great, man.

Glad to be here and love what you guys are doing at PodPage.

You guys do some super high quality work.

So it's an honor to be here today.

Yeah.

Before we let Alex loose, of course, there's always just a hint of housekeeping, just some things.

For those of you that are into PodPage, we're gonna update you on just a couple little things that are going on.

And that includes the fact that.

There we go.

We're gonna breeze through these.

First of all, if you didn't know there was an affiliate program, there's an affiliate program, and it's super simple.

You go over to podpage.com affiliates and you can sign up there.

And if you refer people to PodPage and they buy, hey, you earn money.

Isn't that fun?

And then if you're like, boy, I wish there were some graphics and stuff to go with this.

Well, there is.

It's over@mediakit podpage.com We've got all our logos and our colors and all sorts of fun stuff over there.

And then the other thing I wanted to bring up, when you're in podpage, if you go down and click on the design tab, if you're a premium.

I'm sorry, if you're a yearly elite member of PodPage, we are now offering what Brendan is calling free Design Polish, where he'll go in and kind of look at your artwork and just add some polish to your website to kind of make sure your brand is in align with what's going on.

And of course, you can go in and say, no, thank you, I don't want that.

And then the other thing we want to let people know again, if you're on the elite plan is you can get podcast coaching.

If you go to the help menu, you'll See where there's podcast coaching in the bottom left hand corner.

But before we turn him loose here, you're about to hear the one and only Alex Sanfilippo.

Primarily known as Podmatch.

But he also has pot lottery, and he's got some education resources going on.

But here's the cool thing about Alex is he's different.

And what do I mean by that?

He's.

He's not like other people.

And that the fact that I have heard of him and he's confirmed this, that if you're using Pod Match in a way that is not good for Podmatch, even though you're paying him money, he will kick you out if you.

If you do things that just.

He will.

Like who kicks out people that are giving you money?

Alex does.

And then if you're using Podmatch, he has an affiliate program, and if you use it enough, you can actually earn money using his product.

And he's just a super generous guy.

And one of the great things about every podcaster, or in this case, because Alex is a podcaster as well, but at the heart of it is a servant.

And that's really.

Alex is a guy that serves.

He knows who his audience is and he serves them.

And so we are super happy to have Alex here today, buddy.

Thanks for coming on to our meetup here, Dave.

Thanks again, man.

I really appreciate it.

Call me different.

I didn't know where that was going to go.

I mean, because so for everyone who's like, okay, do these guys actually know each other?

We've hung out at I don't know how many events now.

It goes back years.

And so when Dave says he's different, I'm like, where are we going?

I really.

I really appreciate the kind words, man.

And for me, just everyone knows, like, Dave is really who I learned podcasting from.

He's been in it longer than I have, and I've just been kind of following a lot of the standards that he has created or just the way you carry yourself, man.

Like, I just.

From day one, I was like that.

That's the type of person I want to model and follow.

So I just.

Thank you for paving the way for a guy like me, man.

Means a lot.

Well, thanks, man.

And there are so many different ways we could go with you here.

But I thought we would start off.

You did.

What is the name of the survey?

Because you.

You made this really big survey, and it kind of goes over what podcasters are doing.

And I believe the main kind of motivation was we both get A little sad when we hear that most podcasters make it to maybe episode seven and then they quit.

And so you're kind of like, well, let's figure out why.

What's going on?

And what was the name of that?

What was the name?

Was it a survey?

Was.

What was the name of it?

Yeah, so originally Pod Score.

And that URL is still there.

It's funny, you're.

You're the only person ever interviewed me about that.

Like, I came on School of Podcasting, which I'd encourage you, and that episode's like, really worth listening to.

But we like broke down like the 10 key factors.

Cause I talked to 1600 podcasters, which I will now admit was too.

Just too many, way too many.

But, like, I didn't have a lot going on.

I just started Pod Match and so I had the time and I loved meeting people, so I just.

And they were quick calls.

Some of them were 5, 10 minutes.

But just to figure out, like, why did you quit or why have you not quit?

Was also kind of what was coming up.

So I talked to both sides to kind of just get some perspective.

And I just documented every single call and came up with 10 things based off of.

I just kind of rank them in order.

So, yeah, that was the whole idea behind it.

So Pod Score.

Now it's just the quiz side of his quiz.

Nevermind.

I don't know.

Off top of my head quiz.

Oh, quiz.podmatch.com There you go.

That's it.

Quiz.podmatch.com host it's all totally free.

If somebody wants to go through it and kind of get an idea of how you align with what the feedback was that we got.

So it's, it's like very data driven type of quiz.

It's.

I think it's a lot of fun as well.

It gives you like a podcaster personality and stuff.

So kind of cool project.

Nice.

Do you remember, like, maybe something that came out of that that really surprised you?

Yeah.

The biggest thing.

So, like, the number one contributing factor to your success as a podcaster is self discipline.

And I totally got that.

Totally.

Like, that was kind of obvious, right?

Like, you have to be committed, you have to stick with it.

You have to be consistently devoted just to making it happen.

Right.

Persistence is probably a good way to say it.

So, like, I knew that one.

What really shocked me was the number two.

So, like, that was number one.

I don't.

Like, over a thousand podcasters said that that was like their top factor.

I was like, makes sense.

You Gotta have some self discipline.

But number two is self care.

And like, that really just me.

Naturally, for anyone who doesn't know me, like, I, I tend to be more on the workaholic side.

That's why I talked to 1600 podcasters, right?

Like, I tend to, like, by my default, I'll be a little bit more out of balance.

And so for me, like, hearing that self care was number two thing, I remember, like, thinking the data was flawed.

So, like, I started going back to some, like, recordings and stuff.

I'm like, they must not have said that.

I must have done that wrong.

But no, the reality is people were saying that self care mattered, which was maintaining a proper balance between podcasting and all other forms of their life.

Right.

Like everything else, and not letting it keep them up 247 or skipping too much sleep to edit an episode.

Granted, most people admit they've done that from time to time.

Right.

I think we've all been there.

That really shocked me to hear that self care was so, like, the number two contributing factor, success as a podcaster.

Because burnout is real.

So it makes sense now that I'm on the other side of it.

Yeah.

I always say you have the.

If you picture it like a stool with three legs, one leg is your attitude, the second leg is your actual physical health, and then the third one is your support system.

So the people around you.

And if, if you don't have all.

If you don't have three legs, the stool falls over.

So when you do the.

I'll sleep when I'm dead.

Okay, great.

There goes your physical health and you fall over.

And if you don't pay attention to your spouse, your kids, or whatever you got going in your house, well, then that leg falls over.

And what happens with that one, especially if you ignore your family, then they start complaining and there goes your attitude and it falls over even quicker because now you only got one leg left and that's no good.

So it's hard to.

To keep that going.

That's.

That's.

It's surprising, but not surprising because it's not easy to do the.

Especially for the new podcaster.

What I had to do, I need to get my wife's help.

So, like, and the way she did that is my computer, the one I'm using right now, has a screen time password that I do not have the.

I don't have access to it.

And at 6pm it kicks me off.

That's when I've like, committed to stopping work and it will shut me off.

And unless she walks in and types in her password.

I'm done working.

So, like, you should see me most days, Dave, the last 10 minutes a day, I'm like, hurry up, hurry up, hurry up.

Like, just typing super fast like, send it, send it.

Snooze this till tomorrow.

And I'm like, I'm locked out with, like, 10 seconds left every day, it feels like.

Right.

But I had to do that to get the proper balances.

I had to build, like, a very extreme, like, line in the sand, so to speak.

So it's worked really well for me, though, because I show up much better than I do if I work 15 hours a day.

Yeah, that's one of those where it's a strength to know what your weaknesses are.

It sounds weird because we all have weaknesses, but when you know what they are, then you can do what you did, which is come up with a plan like, okay, I'm going to try to not do this, but I know I'm the same way.

There are times that I've looked up on, especially on a weekend, and it's, you know, 2:30 in the morning, and I'm like, oh, I just was in the zone.

And, you know, creativity juices are flowing, and, you know, that's not really good.

It's like, okay, well, I guess I'll sleep in, which never happens.

And, you know, then you're off to the races.

So anything else from that study that.

That jumped out at you?

Yeah, I.

I think that the one that I didn't agree with, again, like, it was all data.

So, like, I'm.

I'm just.

I personally didn't agree with it, but the data spoke and so the data is right.

But if I.

If I jump down, that was number one.

Number two, if we jump down to number.

I'm looking at it right now.

Make sure I get the number right here, number eight.

And it was to seek out listener feedback to improve the show.

And so that was like, the number eight contributing factor to that was pretty much exclusively people that were still podcasting saying that that really mattered to me.

I think that should be way higher than number eight.

And.

And I voice that on all those calls.

Be like, oh, well, you know, you get all these other things right.

It just kind of falls into place.

And I guess I personally didn't agree with that.

To me, that should be much higher, because I think that if you want results faster from podcasting, like, if you want to get moving the right lane and you want to make things happen quicker, then I think that that should Be higher.

And the best example I can give is myself.

I.

To me, it took me a hundred episodes to get any real meaningful results for my podcast.

And that's because I started talking to people.

I started shortening my episodes because people said they're too long.

I started learning to communicate better.

But when I say communicate better, it was communicate more toward the person who's actually listening because I started knowing who they were.

So that really stood out to me is I thought it was too low on the list.

And I think that to like, it's just not on podcasters radar for some reason to talk to their listeners and listen.

I get they can be tough, but like, if they're commenting on social media, if they're emailing you, if you're getting messages, if someone's reaching out in any possible way, getting on just a five minute call with them, you can learn so much.

Or if that's just not happening and you go to a store, a coffee shop, and there's someone there that you're like, man, that's exactly who I want to have.

Listen to my podcast.

Just strike up a conversation, see if you can kind of get their vibe a little bit.

To me, that just expedites all the results from podcasting.

And Dave, I don't, I don't know what your perspective has been.

You've been in this for a long time.

So I'm just curious to see if you agree or disagree with that.

Well, the thing that always kind of makes me scratch my head and sometimes I wonder, is it that podcasters really don't want feedback?

Because since we're on the PodPage, you know, monthly meetup, if you go into PodPage, it's super simple.

If you go under connect, there's an audience survey based on.

Because it's sitting here on my desk, the book, the audience is listening.

Have you read this book yet, Alex, by Todd Webster.

Incredible book.

It's.

I always joke he should have called it your baby is ugly because that's kind of what he's hitting at.

That's what it's about.

Yeah, and.

But it's all about, you know, he had all these great questions and so when Brendan said we're going to build a survey, I'm like, oh man, we got to see if we can use Tom's questions.

And he was nice enough, you know, he's like, hey, any chance you could put a link to my book next to the survey?

I'm like, yes, we can.

He's like, well then yes, you can use our My questions.

And it's interesting that yes, people are using it, but there are times when somebody's like, hey, do you know anything about, you know, growing my audience?

And I'll be like, well, what did your survey say?

And they're like, survey?

And I'm like, oh, you know, and it's there, it's easy to use.

But I, I think this is my hypothesis.

Maybe you got some insight from your survey.

But I always wonder sometimes if we're afraid.

Like, it's better to be.

How's that go?

It's better to be thought smart than open your mouth and remove all doubt, right?

Your dumb or whatever.

But I'm like, yeah.

But on the other hand, I always, sometimes to make a point, I'll take podcasting out and like, what if this was a restaurant?

Or what if this was a musician?

Or what if this was, you know, whatever.

Like, wouldn't you want them to taste your food first and go, how's that?

And if they.

I remember once there's a favorite Italian restaurant I go to here in Akron and somebody forgot to put the salt in the bread.

And I love their bread.

And so it comes, I slap it on some butter and I take a big old bite and I'm just like.

And it's like, it was really easy.

I, I said, you know, I called the waitress over and I go, there is something wrong with this.

And so she took another piece out, took a bite.

She's like, oh, there's no salt in this.

And so she went back to the kitchen and came out with another little basket and the problem was fixed.

And so when you give people feedback, they can fix it.

It's like you said, people are saying, ah, the show's a little long.

And you went, oh, okay, I can shorten it, you know, so it's, for me, it's a head scratcher.

Do you have any insights as to maybe why people wouldn't do a survey?

I had never really thought about this because for me, I guess sometimes I get too stuck in my head and I, maybe I'm not empathetic enough, but I never thought that someone wouldn't want feedback.

Why would you not want to improve?

But that can hurt you, right?

Like, like you said, it's calling your baby ugly, more or less.

And so many people who probably listening and watching this are like, but I just wouldn't have said anything at a restaurant even, right?

So people on the other side also, I don't know, it's just, it's an uncomfortable situation that you're stepping.

You're putting yourself in.

In a room to get hurt, more or less.

And so I've never given it much thought, but, like, now that I'm.

Now I'm thinking about it, maybe people just aren't ready for that.

And.

And if I think back to when I started getting that feedback, especially at first, it did hurt.

Like, I'll be real.

Like, it was uncomfortable.

But, I mean, what growth isn't.

Like, if you go to the gym and you're never sore, like, maybe you're not doing enough, right?

Like, there's got to be some pain involved in it.

And it doesn't have to all feel.

I mean, it feels personal, but it doesn't have to actually be taken that way.

You're improving a product for somebody, Right?

I doubt the waitress was offended that you called her bread not good, right?

Like, no.

She's like, oh, wait, hold on.

I can fix this.

Yeah.

And that's.

That's really it.

I know when I do audits of people, it's always like, oh, I really like this part.

I really like this part.

In the last one I just did, they had a volume issue where anytime they played an intro or an outro or a clip of anything, your head just got blasted off.

And I said, okay.

I said, when I.

When I have to grab the volume knob, I go, that's.

That's like, big red flag.

I go, that's the bad news.

I go, the good news is, let me introduce you to my friend.

Off on it.

You know what I mean?

I'm like, here, run it through this.

And you're.

You're good to go.

So, you know, I.

I laugh because especially we don't see our own warts.

For lack of a better phrase, the church I go to has been using a logo.

We did fix this, but for about four years, we had a logo with a typo in it, and nobody caught it.

Like, you know, 30, 50 people go to this church.

We're like, hey, here's the new logo.

Somebody said, hey, Talmadge has two Ls, you know?

And like, wait, what?

I'm like, so we're way too close to see our own stuff, because we see it every day, and that's why you need that.

I had a typo.

At the school of podcasting, member Kim Newlove does the pharmacist voice, and she goes, dave, do you know you have a typo?

And I'm like, oh, here we go again.

Not again.

I go, which show?

And she goes, no, the school of podcasting.

And I go, oh, okay.

Which episode?

She's like, no, the school of podcast.

I go, what do you mean?

And there it was, School of podcasting.

Plan, launch, grow, and montize.

I left out an E.

And I was like, oh, thank you so much.

She goes, well, I.

I didn't want to.

Like, I'm like, no, no.

Like, if I ever have spinach in my teeth, let me know.

I have spinach in my teeth.

I go, I will fix that.

So it's not the end of the world if somebody gives you some constructive feedback.

It's just a.

It's an opportunity to make your show better.

So, yeah, absolutely.

I think that something that us as podcasters can do as well, to also make our listeners, like, if we're talking to them, they don't want to break your heart.

They don't want to call your baby ugly.

Usually it's uncomfortable for anyone to do if you're going to ask questions.

I know the survey does a really good job at this, so use that first and foremost.

Like, check that out.

Pod pages got.

Got you hooked up there.

If you're talking to someone in conversation, they'll remove yourself from the equations.

The best thing you can do.

Don't say, what do you not like about my podcast?

Nobody wants to answer that.

Like, that is an uncomfortable situation.

Everyone's just gonna say, oh, no, it's great.

It's good.

The way that I position it worked for me is I finally started saying, hey, let's think about future listeners.

What can we do to make it better for them?

And now they don't feel like they're gonna break your heart.

You just pulled out your emotions from it, and they're like, oh, well, if we shorten a little bit, I better be even better.

And I can be like, got you.

You don't like my show, right?

Like, it's just like, okay, that's good feedback.

I can do something with that.

But removing ourselves from how we ask the question helps other people feel comfortable, give us real feedback.

And again, the whole reason I think we're talking about this, Dave, is because if you get this right, like, it'll streamline how successful your show gets because you're actually implementing in real time and you're not waiting years for someone random just to step up and be like, hey, you have a typo.

Right?

Like, it gives you that permission from day one.

If you go seeking it.

Yeah.

If you ever have the courage.

I've gone to events, and I'll say, somebody will come.

Say Oh, I listen to your show and I'll be like, well, thank you so much.

Like, what do you like about it?

And they'll say, oh, well, I always learn something and you're funny or whatever.

And I'm like, great, what do you wish I would change?

And it's interesting because they're like, I wouldn't change anything and I won't say anything.

I just leave this awkward pause and I'm just.

And sometimes I'll have my phone out or if I have a pad and pencil, like, my body language is like, I'm waiting for you to say something.

And sometimes if you, you leave that awkward pause enough, they will say, well, the thing you did with your cat, that was, I don't know, wasn't my favorite thing.

I'm like, okay, cool.

Anything else?

And once they see that you're not in a ball crying on the floor because you gave one note, then you're good to go.

And just also realize there may be times when I remember once I do a live kind of call in show on Saturday with Jim Collison and somebody gave us like a page and a half of notes that were all great notes except they had nothing to do with our show.

It was like, you should bring in guests and ask them this and do this.

And it was like, okay, but I don't know if you know, it's called ask the podcast coach.

And this has nothing about asking a podcast coach.

And so we said thank you very much for the.

The feedback.

Will consider it and all, but there's a name for that person and it's called not your target audience, like, and not in alignment with your, with your brand.

I know over the years you've had different brands and you've kind of merged them all.

Or can you kind of talk about that?

How the pod match and the pod lottery and the pod here, pod there, everywhere a pod pod.

Like, how has that kind of grown over the years?

I got two quick comments.

One, did you get any feedback on your Jesus episode?

I really liked it personally.

Did you get any feedback on.

I'm just curious.

I had people, they're like, that was pretty funny.

I thought it was great and it.

Was a cool way.

I should know this.

I want to say it was episode 900.

Yes.

And I interviewed Jesus just because this is just a thing I like to do.

I like to go right to the line and just ever so not so much push somebody's buttons, but just graze the button just to see what happens.

I loved it.

I was on a walk and everyone who I was laughing and people must have just thought it was crazy.

Like, oh, let's cross the street when this guy's walking past us.

The other thing I want to mention real quick is discernment matters.

So to your point, if you all would have gone and changed the whole show, which wouldn't have made any sense, like, that wouldn't have been good.

One time I had one person I got on a call with who said, I wish your episodes were double the time they are because I have a two hour commute.

If I would have taken that feedback, I would have been doing a disservice to everyone else as a host.

We have to have the discernment to know this has merit.

This doesn't.

So to your point, actually it's a great segue into talking about going from all the brands down to just Pod Match.

I listened to too many voices and I got feedback, or I guess maybe coaching from someone I didn't ask for coaching from, but was really well known and was like, hey, look at Alphabet and Meta.

You know, Alphabet owns Google and thousands of companies.

Meta owns Facebook and Instagram and thousands of companies or hundreds of companies, right?

Like, that's how you need to build a brand.

And I kind of took that to heart.

And I was listening.

Everyone had these different ideas for what we should do.

And I will now just say this, this was a mistake.

And I posted about it on social media multiple times.

That, like, spreading myself that thin was really not a good decision.

So we went from like Pod Match, which is still to this day, the main thing to having it was.

I think it was 10 or 11, maybe it was 10 other things.

And the day I realized it was wrong, Dave, is I was blind to it.

First off, people were telling me that they just, this doesn't make sense.

And I just kind of ignored it.

I'm like, nope, this is the right way to do.

I know it's the right way to do it.

I was actually at podfest, this is going back a couple years now.

And somebody just raised their hand.

It was like a round table thing.

Like, hey, I just have one question.

What do you do?

Because I'm super confused.

Oh, I run Pod Match and some other companies.

Like, yeah, I know, but why do you have all these, like, what are they?

Right?

And the whole table, like, nodded in agreement.

I was like, oh, man, I've made a real mistake here.

And since then, like, again, post on social media and we've been one at a time bringing things into Pod Match or just removing it if it just doesn't make sense and it doesn't actually help.

I was, again, listening to too many voices, taking feedback from every direction, not having discernment, just being like, people want it, do it, even if it's just one person.

Nothing against that one person.

Most people just love to throw ideas out there.

They don't actually want it.

They want to have the idea.

And then you're like, here it is.

Like, oh, cool.

Someone will love that, right?

It's like, wait, what?

So I've learned the hard way to hone everything back in.

And you referenced at the beginning, I have Pod Match and Pod Lottery, that this is inside information.

But we're in the process right now of bringing Pod Lottery into podmatch and just making it all one thing.

And so it'll just be an extension of that, like, free, freely included, just part of the service.

And then that will literally be the only domain, one domain to rule them all.

Right.

Since doing this, so I can tell you our company has grown much faster, reputation has improved much faster, and no one has questions to what we do.

People know immediately, oh, this is what you do.

It's very clear now.

And getting this point has been really tough.

I've definitely struggled.

This was probably, like, the hardest professional lesson I've had to learn.

Yeah, it's interesting when you learn a lesson, especially kind of in public, but in the end, I don't know.

Did anybody give you any flack?

They're like, what do you mean?

You're combining these?

They just go, oh, okay.

I would think that would be my response.

But have you gotten any flack from merging together?

No, actually, not once.

We've actually had the opposite.

People saying, oh, thank you.

Like, I used to have two logins.

Don't you guys now have one?

Right?

And so.

Yeah, no, not.

Not once.

As somebody, like, said, oh, I wish that you all would have kept this separate.

Like, it just hasn't come up at all.

So confirmation, right, that we're heading the right direction?

Yeah, absolutely.

And I want to talk in a bit about your network that you're putting together, but I thought before we get there, we said podmatch, you know, seven times now.

One of my favorite services when it comes to, you know, being a guest and finding guests.

Any best practices when it comes to, like, hey, I've heard it over and over and over.

One of the best ways to grow your show is to be on other people's podcasts, because we know those people have people that listen to Podcasts.

So what is kind of a best practice for, you know, putting together a profile on Pod Batch?

Yeah, I love talking about this.

And what you just said is key.

Like the one universal fact about a podcast listeners that they listen to podcasts.

Right.

So if they listen to another show, they might like to listen to yours as well.

And so I think, I think guessing on other shows is a great way to.

To be able to grow your own.

Yeah.

Making a profile to me on podmatch, or even if you're not using Pod Match, like, that's fine.

Like if you have like a PDF type of thing, some sort of one sheet, I think it's super important to have that.

And the reason I say that I think it's important to have that or even it's a webpage, like something, have something is because you don't want to include all that when you're doing your outreach.

Like, if I'm going to.

If I'm going to email Dave and say, dave, I'd love to be on School of Podcasting, I don't want to copy paste 15 years of my experience and like all these things in there.

Because now Dave's like, what is going on here?

Right.

Like, it's best to be able to link out to that.

So when you go to create a profile, first and foremost, I'm just saying have one.

Doesn't matter where it is.

But I think some things that matter are, what is a host going to want?

If you're hearing this and you're a host, you know, you're going to want some options of pictures, probably, right?

At least one or two that are higher definition and not like half of someone's face or anything like that.

Right.

Have some pictures that like, okay, I can build a some.

Dave, you are laughing way too hard at that.

You've seen it, huh?

I've seen that.

Yeah.

I had somebody want to be on my show and I asked him, like, you have any pictures?

Because they did have a Pod Match profile, but it was like just the center of their face.

Like, they zoomed in so far you couldn't see the bottom of their chin.

You couldn't see the top of their head.

I was like, you have any, like, zoomed out pictures?

Like, nope, this is my only one.

I'm like, you think about taking anymore?

Nope, this is my only picture.

I'm like, well, how old is it and why is it not a full picture?

Like, what was going on the rest of it?

Yeah, I feel like I couldn't use it if I'm being real.

I'm not trying to be rude.

It's just like as a host, you're like, well, I want to create some sort of assets and I don't feel I can get anything from this.

So go ahead.

You had something on that.

No, it just.

Yeah, and I always love the ones where they've like, background removal today is way different than background removal three or four years ago where it just.

You end up with this weird, you know, you were, I don't know, next to a brick building.

So you end up with like this brown halo where it didn't quite do that well.

So be careful.

If you.

If you have that picture and you did the background removal four years ago, go back, find the original one and do it using today's technology.

Because, yeah, I've seen some.

Some bad.

You know, if your brand is made with crayon, that's not a good sign.

Unless you're some sort of kids thing.

You know, we don't want that to be the first impression.

Right.

And that's a good way to say it's the first impression.

Something I tried is at a recommendation of a friend is he's like, hey, take some pictures that have like blank space on the side and stu like that and just see what happens.

And I regularly have hosts be like, oh, I made more assets for your episode, like repurposed content because you had so many easy pictures I could use.

So I just use a bunch of them.

I'm like, oh, well, that's a win.

Like, I didn't need that and ask for it.

So anyway, to my point, I think that's.

I think it's just important.

And like you said, first impressions matter.

It gives a face to the name if it's coming through email or through POD Match, wherever it's coming from.

Beyond that, I think it's important to give some.

Some background.

Like have like a bio section.

Maybe not in just a bio, but like also like an introduction.

Something that you're like, okay, this is for the host to read.

Something really short.

It's just like, hey, this is two or three sentences about me along with this.

And I don't mean to power through this, but I think that.

I think that talking about, like, how to reach out, I think would be really important to talk about.

So I want to get through this here, but have some ideas for questions that you're ready to be asked.

Yeah, even on podnash, we asked for ideas for titles.

I don't know any host that's ever taken Those directly.

But what it does, it helps them say, okay, I understand that Dave talks about podcasting.

Like, if you don't have some sort of frame of reference, most hosts are going to go do their research.

You don't want them doing research and finding something from a long time ago.

That's not really what you want to talk about anymore.

Right.

If you're gonna get on a podcast, it's to grow your show.

You want it to be in align with that.

Before podmatch was a thing, I was getting on shows as a guest and everyone was asking, asking me about my aerospace job.

It's not what I wanted to talk about.

If you want my LinkedIn, that's what it was about.

Right.

And if you went to other places, like, that's what it was.

Without giving a hosted direction, they're gonna.

They're going to go for it.

Right?

Most hosts like to do a little bit of research, and if they're doing their research, they find something that's interesting to them and you don't give them direction, they're just going to go for it.

Yeah, absolutely.

I.

I think I got one of the best pitches ever.

I did a show where I just tried to keep my opinion out.

I'm like, here's.

Here's some facts about audio, here's some facts about video.

Here's some more facts.

And in some cases, video was better.

In other cases, you know, Audio outperformed video 15 to 1 in one instance, and blah, blah, blah.

And I had somebody reach out and they said, hey, I listened to your episode, and I was an audio podcaster, and I started doing video and they had, like, graphs and charts.

It was Thomas Umstadt Jr.

From AuthorMedia.com and he said, if you ever want to talk again about video, I think this is a viewpoint that you didn't touch on.

And it was immediately like, it was immediate.

Yes, yes, come on my show.

This is amazing.

So it proved he listened to the show and then he had actual data.

Like, hey, this.

Your episode was all about data and facts.

I have more data and facts.

Do you want to share mine?

And I was like, yes, yes, I do.

And it just, it proved that, A, they listened to the show.

B, he wasn't about, I'm so great.

Look at me.

It was like, hey, here's how this can also educate your audience.

So he was really focusing on my audience, which is kind of what we should be doing, is how can I bring value, you know, to Alex's audience because he's the host and so I saw that and I was like, oh, I need to take like a video of this and screen like, this is how you pitch me.

Do this.

Don't.

Don't pitch the plumber that doesn't have a podcast to my show because I'm not talking about plumbing.

That doesn't work for me.

So, yeah, so good.

It makes, Makes me think the other day I had somebody reach out and they're like a New York Times bestselling author.

They've released number of books, done had a lot of achievements, and they emailed me.

They're not on Pod Match or anything like that.

They're like, I don't understand this podcasting thing.

Why am I not getting invited to be on shows?

I was like, well, where.

Where are you, like, asking to be on shows?

Like, I'm not.

I'm waiting.

I'm like, I'm like, I don't know.

Cause great example.

If this guy who had all that data just post on social media one, you may have never seen it, but you may not have invited him on.

You might just be like, well, I just posted this.

It seems kind of general, right?

But I think for people that were.

That are hearing this and you're like, okay, I do want to get on shows.

We talked about the profile.

You've got to have some sort of profile that you can link to, but then you gotta be willing to do the outreach and then please make the outreach good.

But you got to be willing to.

What you get out of it's what you put into it.

You got to be willing to say, I'm going to make the effort.

I'm going to send the first form of contact.

And like you said, I think with that great pitch you got was it was what I think is step one, which is to lead with value.

I didn't mean to, but I'm wearing a shirt that says those words on it right now.

I saw it as I was saying it, but I put it there because I remind myself, like, anytime I'm reaching out, I'm going to make sure I lead with value.

That's the first thing.

It wasn't like, hey, Dave, I just made this report.

I've learned so much.

I know more than anyone about this.

I would love to talk about it on your show.

Like, I, I, I, I, right?

It was like, hey, great episode.

This is some extra things that maybe you hadn't covered yet.

Like, I think that's brilliant.

Yeah, it was awesome.

I was like, it literally, like, I almost heard, like angels in the background.

Like, oh.

And I was like, this is.

And it literally, it was like, I.

I read it down, and the more I read, the more it was valuable.

And I got to the bottom, saw who it was.

I'm like, oh, I know that guy.

And I was like.

I instantly hit reply and put in my link for scheduling.

I was like, let's make that happen, buddy.

And so, so good.

That's.

I've had.

I haven't had a good pitch in a while, and I.

That's terrible to say, but it's been a long time since I feel like I've had a good one come through.

Yeah.

I had someone pitched podpage yesterday because they work with other restaurants, and I went, well, I don't know if you're aware of this, but we're not a restaurant, so.

Tell you, you got to do the full pivot.

Cone.

Try the luguini.

Yeah, exactly.

Well, the other thing.

And this might be Edit point 1.

Are you still accepting people for your network?

I am, yes.

Okay, well, then we should talk about your network.

Yeah, yeah, go ahead.

Well, I'm curious because I know you've kind of put out a call like, hey, we're starting a network.

And I was like, oh, I should go see what he's doing over there.

And then I never did.

So what is the network?

Why you doing it?

What.

Why should someone join your network?

Just give us the whole spiel.

Yeah, and thanks for bringing this up.

It started just as an idea.

Like, I had a few podcasters.

I say a few.

I think there was, like, 25 podcasters or something like that.

They were all like.

We were in, like, a group chat, and it was just people that were using Pod Match, and many of them were posting like, hey, I'm looking to join a network.

And, like, where.

Where do we go?

And others were like, oh, that'd be cool.

Like, how do we do this?

And so I just asked.

I'm like, hey, I can.

I know a few network people.

What.

What would.

Like, what are you looking for out of a network?

And interestingly enough, the.

The only common thing they all said is community.

That was.

That was.

Every single one of them said community.

I was like, okay, that's.

That's interesting.

And then they just said some sort of, like, prestige or getting recognized somehow for it.

Like, they wanted just to be known for it.

So it's like, okay, community.

And I want people to see that I'm part of a network.

And so, like, those being the top two things were very fascinating to me.

And beyond that, There was like monetization ideas, growth ideas, education.

Right, Those more normal type things you'd suggest.

But not all of them said that.

And so I just, I put it out to more people.

We made like a small, I guess, just form, like using Google forms and just like ask.

I think I sent it to a hundred shows and just said that, hey, if there was a podcast network, what would you want?

And it literally almost mirrored the data exactly.

Everyone said community, everyone said some sort of recognition for being in it.

And then it was like a mix between monetization and.

Sorry.

There was three things.

It was monetization, listenership, growth, and automations, like streamlining the process of the show.

And that was virtually it.

There was a few, like, random things, but, like, not that really had much merit.

And so I kind of went out and started looking for networks that might fit that type of thing.

Like, okay, I'll go.

I talked to a couple people, but it wasn't really the right fit.

And they wanted control of the shows.

And I didn't feel comfortable sending people somewhere like that.

And then I just started thinking, like, maybe I should start something.

And I don't know if you know this, Dave, but maybe you do, but you have an episode about, like, networks.

And that was what I ended up there.

That's where I ended up.

And that was ultimately made me, gave me the decision to say, you know what, we're going to go ahead and do this.

Because I listened to the pros and cons from, like, from you and a bunch of people that I have nothing but, like, the utmost respect for in podcasting.

Talk about, like, pros and cons.

And so we decided to launch a network.

And I think the better way to say it would be it's more of a collaborative because we're not doing ad buys together.

I have no control over people's content.

They're not, like, they don't have to submit it to us first.

It's just a way they have community and a way that they can get recognized for it.

So like podmatch.com network shows all the shows, so you can see them all shows, all the shows, Displays all the shows.

That's how you say that.

Displays all the shows.

And then if you go to their individual Pod Match profiles, it says they're a pod match, they're a Pod Match podcast network member.

And people are really happy with that.

And so since then, we've just been doing educational pieces every month about monetization, show growth and automations.

And people are really loving it.

That is beyond fascinating to me, because I think the re.

I don't.

I don't think people always start podcasting to make money, but so many people.

And I get it, but I'm kind of sad about this.

Like, they feel their show isn't legit until they get a sponsor.

And so when you say kind of recognition, or at least I can say, you know, oh, I'm on a network, I'm like, you know what?

That makes total sense.

And there was a movie out about five months ago about this female boxer in the Olympics back in the 80s, and she gets home, she won a gold medal.

She was, like, ridiculously young, and she's just dropping everybody.

She's amazing boxer.

I wish I could remember her name.

And she gets home and she's expecting to be on the Wheaties box because, you know, I'm the youngest, you know, blah, blah, blah.

Great story.

You know, she was in Detroit and pulled herself up, and there's just nothing.

Why?

Because female boxing in the 80s is not what it is today.

And the I think, was her agent or somebody said, well, like, what's the deal?

Is it the money?

Is it the recognition?

And she screams, money is recognition.

And I think.

And I was like, that's interesting.

So I think sometimes that's why people want a sponsor, not because they want the.

You know, I just made, I think, $5.23 on Red Circle.

You know, not sure where I'm going to spend it all.

But, you know, I think it's that kind of recognition that, like, hey, I'm legit.

And I think being in a network with other people just shows that, hey, I'm not just some guy in his bedroom.

I'm taking this.

Even if it's just a hobby, I'm still.

It's a serious hobby.

When I was in a band, we knew we were never moving to Nashville, but we wanted to be the best band in Akron, Ohio.

And if I do say so myself, I think we were at times.

So, you know, I want.

It's a serious hobby.

Is that kind of.

How.

How do you classify the people that are joining?

Is it all over the place or.

Yeah, no, that.

I think that's the best way to describe it.

And for me, I'm big on validation through data.

Like, I love to talk to people, but I want to see the data.

And to date, I think we've had.

So I don't know how long ago we launched.

I'm sorry, I think it's been under a year, but it's something Close those lines.

And just given like the failure rate in podcasting, the expectation was that something like 30% of people would be done podcasts and maybe out of it.

That was kind of, kind of the thought, like, just like if we follow the industry average, I think we've had two people leave the network since starting.

And if you're, if you become inactive, it just kind of quietly removes you and stuff.

Like, if you're not producing your show, because I don't want shows that are from 2015 and haven't produced an episode since, but they're in a network.

Right.

It's like, no, you're not doing anything right.

So they're all active shows.

But that showed me that like, yes, these people, sure, many of them are hobbyist and I don't say that in a bad way at all.

Thinking a hobbyist podcaster is absolutely the way to go for as long as you possibly can.

It's a serious hobby.

They take it very seriously.

And many of these people, like, I'm looking at their downloads increasing, I'm looking at their ability to podcast well, to build systems.

Listen, if they can have a full time job and podcast, like that says something about them.

Like that's, that's impressive.

And, and so, yeah, we're just seeing that they're taking it very seriously.

I think you worded it really well.

And it's just the fact that like someone recognizes the fact that they're just like you said, not in the room, just podcasting.

Because that's what everyone does, right?

Like, no, they're, they're for real and they have a real purpose behind it.

Well, and I think it goes back to people that in a way serve their audience.

But I mean, whatever.

20 years ago, I wish I could find this clip.

It's, it's in one of my very first episodes, I said, hey, I think podcasting is going to change the world.

And I think the people that get behind the mic that actually, even if it's just making people laugh, you're changing the world.

And sometimes you're helping people, you know, learn how to crochet or make, you know, pizza better or whatever it is your how to is, or how to deal with parents or kids, whatever it is, you're changing the world.

And that to me is, I think something that I'm going to guess is part of your network, maybe that you see a lot of people doing that.

Yes.

I'd love it if you could find that clip.

I don't mean to like add extra work to you But I would just.

I would love to hear that, and I'd actually like to share that because I think that is.

I think that it's an understatement that that has become true.

And so, yeah, absolutely.

The people that are podcasting this network, part of the applications, you ask them, like, why do you want to join?

And occasionally people being like, I want to make money.

And typically, I'm like, well, let's dig in a little deeper.

Like, what is that?

Like, how much money we talking here?

Right.

Like, what are you looking to do?

But most of them, it's like, I want to get this message out.

And listen, I am very attracted to passion.

Anytime I hear, like, someone who's, like, passionate, you can hear it in their voice.

You can see it in the way they write.

That's the person, like, instantly, like, yep, I definitely want you, like, for sure.

That's type of show we want here.

And some of them are.

They're all over the place.

We have comedy shows to business shows to literally talk about anything with anybody type of shows.

Right.

So they're all over the place.

Which I don't mind that at all, as long as the person doing it is serious and they have a real reason for doing it.

I'm very happy with that.

Very cool.

And again, what's the website?

The podmatch.com network.

Yep.

Correct.

That's it.

Beautiful.

Excellent.

Well, dude, I want to thank you for your time.

Yeah.

For coming out.

And like I said, you're a different kind of guy.

And that, again, that just shows.

You're like, hey, I love the fact you've done this a few times.

You're like, hey, that's a good idea.

Let's see who's doing it.

Oh, wait, nobody is.

Or maybe I can do this in a different way.

I would say better, but that sounds presumptions, but you know what I mean.

You mean better, but you'll say different.

That kind of thing.

And you've just done that.

And I love the fact that, you know, I've.

I remember the first time you were like, oh, I'm going to start paying people.

If you.

If you're a Pod Match affiliate and you do this and they're like.

And you've.

I forget how many gazillions of dollars you've now paid podcasters for using your service.

And I'm like, that's just not the norm, you know?

Or when you went through and did a cleansing, what would you call it?

A purge.

I called it a purge.

I now realize that sounds a little harsh.

I didn't mean for it to.

Well, there's.

Well, have you ever seen the movie the Purge?

There's a couple of them.

They're spooky and gory and weird.

And I was like, I don't.

I don't think he means the movie the Purge.

No, no, I haven't heard of those.

And that now makes it sound even worse.

I didn't hurt anybody, I promise.

Nothing weird happened.

We just deleted them from our.

From our platform.

I did.

Just.

Look, our POD Value initiative is what we call that.

That's where we pay podcast hosts to one share about it.

But also, if they're just interviewing guests on the platform, if they're interviewing guests on the platform, following the system, we give a cut of our profit.

So it's just.

Right now it's 700.

700,000.

Just over that.

That number goal is to hit a million before the end of 2025, which I would absolutely love.

Like, giving back is central to my.

My belief as a follower of Jesus, but also just in business, I think it's important to give back when people are good to you.

Ching, that's.

That's not a.

Yeah, that's a little more than a Happy Meal, so that's a beautiful thing.

So, Alex Sanfilippo, thank you so much, everybody.

If you haven't Already, check out PodMatch.

I'll have links in the show notes or under the video, wherever you're watching or listening to this.

And thank you so much, my friend.

Thanks again, I appreciate it.

And I'll have a links to everything in the episode description.

If you haven't seen how cool your podcast would look like on a POD page, go over to podpage.com and start your 14 day trial today.

I'm Dave Jackson, head of podcasting here at PodPage.

Thanks so much for listening.

We'll see you again real soon.

Podcast website Tips is part of the Power of Podcasting Network.

Find this and all of Dave's shows@powerofpodcasting.com.