The Embodiment Coaching Podcast

Today on the show, it's the embodiment Coaching Podcast.

Find it@podcastreviewshow.com 113.

Welcome to the podcast Review show hosted.

By radio veteran Eric Cade Johnson from podcast talentcoach.com and hall of fame podcaster Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting.

Dave and Eric, help you identify those things you are doing right so you can do more of those and lose those things that don't deliver value to your audience.

Join in on the conversation@podcastreviewshow.com all right.

Welcome to the Podcast Review Show.

I'm Dave Jackson from the school of podcasting, and joining me as always, the one and only podcast talent coach, Eric C.A.

johnson.

How's it going, Eric?

Dave, I am doing awesome.

It's so great to see you.

Glad to be back in the seat once again reviewing another great show.

Yeah, we.

If you're new to the show, we bring people on normally, unless you're on another continent and we listen to your show and then tell you what we thought you did.

Good.

And then maybe find those things that need a little polish.

And who are we talking about tonight, Eric?

Tonight we are reviewing the Embodiment Coaching Podcast.

Mark Andrew Walsh is the host of the show and we're.

It's a great interview show.

It'll be great to talk.

I wish Mark was with us so we could poke around and ask him some questions about it.

But we will do our best to review it for Mark without him being in the hot seat.

Yeah.

So we always ask people, why did you start a podcast?

And Mark said, to network.

So the beauty of that is, if that's your why and you're interviewing people, congratulations, your podcast is a success because you're growing your network.

But we also, then, you know, why did you choose this topic?

And he says he's an embodiment coach, so that makes sense.

And I, I guess the thing that, as I was listening to it, I think this is for other coaches.

Do you think so as you listen to this episode?

Yeah, I think in his intake form he mentioned that his audience is coaches, and I'm.

I'm guessing other embodiment coaches.

I guess it's just not all coaches, though.

He isn't very specific on that particular answer.

But I love the fact that he uses the podcast to network.

So many people launch their podcast and want to grow it to a bajillion downloads so they can go sell it to advertisers and get sponsors on their show, and then they get crushed when the audience doesn't grow to a million.

And Mark, you know, he really doesn't need a huge audience to succeed because he invites the people that he wants to talk to to be guests on his show.

It reminds me of Jamie Masters, the millionaire.

Jamie wanted to have conversations with millionaires who, you know, usually don't have a whole lot of time for you to pick their brain.

So she launches a podcast.

To be able to have a conversation every week with a millionaire, like, it was genius.

Like, every time she would invite millionaires to be on the show, they would say, yeah, absolutely.

She just had a fantastic time being coached by millionaires and ended up turning into a huge show and a great business for her.

So you don't necessarily need to launch your podcast to get to a million downloads.

You can launch your podcast for a variety of reasons, and I think networking with other experts in your niche is a fantastic purpose.

Yeah.

And I.

We always send out a form and ask them, and he does say, yeah, this is geared towards coaches.

The part that does make me scratch my head is he said, why did you start this to network?

How will you know if your podcast is successful?

I would assume the answer would be when my network grows.

And instead I see his answer here is more downloads.

So that is one of those things where I'm like, well, we need to figure out what is your why.

Is it more clients?

Because usually more downloads means, well, I need more downloads to get more clients.

So I would advise, Mark, we need to get a little clear on what's the goal.

Because, you know, it's like when people say, I'm going to lose weight.

Okay, well, how much?

Because if you lose a pound, congratulations, you're losing weight.

You know, you got to be a little more specific.

And the other thing is, if you don't get your why, then you fall into that camp that burns out after seven episodes or whatever it is.

And it's really important to know your.

Your why and your.

Your who, because if you don't entertain the who, then you're not going to grow an audience.

And if you don't get your why, yeah, well, you know, enjoy your eight episodes.

So, yeah, he says being successful would be more downloads, and he wants his audience to listen and subscribe.

But if we're using it to network, then we just.

We're looking for other coaches in the industry to network with.

Maybe that's what he means.

Maybe he wants more coaches in the.

In the audience that he can network with.

So I.

I love the.

I love the purpose behind the show.

Yeah.

I think it's, it's a great business tool when you're looking to network and I.

Dave, you always say if you want to grow your network, do an interview style show.

If you want to grow your authority, do a solo show.

And I think that this is a perfect example of it.

Yeah.

So with that, let's listen to.

We actually let this go a little longer.

This is the first two minutes of the show.

And as the old saying goes, it goes a little something like this.

This podcast is sponsored by Raid, Shadow, Legends and Adlers.

No, it's not.

It's not sponsored by anyone else because I don't have to talk crap about anyone else's stuff.

The only sponsors us Bodiment on the meter dot com.

So for those who don't know, we have a certification of embodiment coaching.

We've been running that for a few years.

Years before that.

10 years for that.

All right, in the essence of time.

Eric, your first reaction to this and then I'll go to the.

Where it gets a little, little more on.

On point.

I.

I'm in a love hate with the, with the beginning of this episode.

I love his funny, snarky opening.

I thought that was quite clever.

And, and a little jab at other podcasts.

I like that.

But then almost too lackadaisical and I feel like he doesn't have to promote anybody but himself.

And then when he promotes his website and his coaching and his community, he almost throws it away.

Like he just, he runs through it so quickly.

Like, I listen, that's the fourth time I've listened to that beginning and I still can't figure out what it is he's offering me.

So I would recommend take pride in the name of the show, in the name of your community, in your website.

Take pride in all of that.

Get people interested, interested in it.

I get the snarky, funny opening.

We're not sponsored by anybody, but wrap your arms around yourself and get people to come in.

That's my take on the content.

The audio quality is very challenging in the beginning and that the muddiness of the intro may have made it more difficult to understand than it needed to be.

Yeah, I wanted to jump ahead here because you'll hear where we're at still kind of the old audio and then which at first you're like, oh, okay, this isn't great, but then if you go a little further.

Enjoy.

Okay.

On the show today, Dr.

Kathleen King.

So she is the CEO and founder of the Crime War.

Now for me, I don't Know if it's being a musician or what.

I thought the music was a little loud.

And the fact that I'm going to guess he's using the built in laptop microphone or whatever microphone it is, it's nowhere near his mouth.

It seems very roomy.

And there are tools out there that can clean this up.

And it sounds like that's what they did, except they used too many of them because you can really overdo it.

You know, there are.

That's a good point.

And I listened to it.

I'm like, okay, somebody tried to make this sound better, but in the process it sounds better than it did.

Probably, but it doesn't.

Well, I think, I think the interview part here that you're getting into sounds much better than the beginning.

Yeah.

And when.

If I didn't have the beginning to compare it to, I probably would have thought this audio sounded worse than I do now because I'm comparing it to audio that was very challenging to comprehend.

But I didn't think of that.

They may have been using some audio processing to try and clean it up, but he was much easier to understand as the interview kicked off than the intro was.

Yeah, I've actually got a clip.

And what this is, there's a great tool called Auphonic.

It's a U, P, H, O, N, I, C.

And it's great to level out audio and so it will look for things that are, you know, if your guest is lower in volume than you are.

The bad part is if you have somebody who is ever so slightly a loud breather.

Auphonic thinks the breathing is words and you end up with clips that sound like that.

Ben in 2000 was John Sarno.

So I was very familiar with the mind body connection as it relates to pain in the spine.

But so people breathe, you know what I mean?

But I was kind of like, it's one.

And this is where for me, kind of being listening through the ears of a podcaster, I was like, is.

Is that me being too picky or.

But when she had that one, I was like.

And it was really long.

I was like, no, that was.

I think somebody would notice that.

And it's one of those weird picky things that once you notice it, it's throughout the whole interview.

Yeah, I'm going to say you're too picky.

Because as I was listening to it now I have the ears of a 95 year old.

Like, huh, What?

What?

Last night I told my wife, speaking to my good ear, she goes, you.

Don'T have a good ear.

Yeah.

And I only noticed one breath in the whole thing that stood out to me and it was his at the end of a question before she answered, that was the only one that really stood out to me as I was listening to it and really noticed.

So, yeah, I'm not, I'm not so sure that I'm as bothered by the breaths in there.

Is Authonic a free tool or a paid tool?

You can do X amount of hours for free and then there's a paid version and it does all.

It, you know, it slices, it dices, it even juliennes.

It's a very good.

Yeah.

But if we go to the beginning.

Of this interview today, Dr.

Kathleen King.

So she is the CEO and founder of Primal Trust Academy, which is also quite a big community from what I can gather.

She's one of those guests that I feel really familiar with because I've seen loads of her videos.

A friend of mine who is extremely.

How do I put this experience?

Picky, well educated embodiment things.

She'd been suffering from chronic health issues for quite a long time and she said this was the thing that was really working for her.

So I watched a bunch of the videos with her.

My girlfriend and I watched a bunch of the videos as well together.

So I've been practicing a bunch of the things that she teaches.

Teaches.

And yeah, I mean, Kathleen's background is a doctor of physical therapy.

She's working with somatics.

You could call her a nervous system educator.

We'll get into all that.

Kathleen, welcome.

Hi, Mark.

Thanks for having me.

Okay, let's hear a bit about your story.

I'm imagining you come from a background of illness and suffering and all that good stuff.

If you got into what you do now.

Yeah, yeah, I have all those boxes checked.

The pre requirements for eventually teaching this, you have to go through it.

So for me, I thought he did a good job of explaining her story like, she's done this, she had a chronic illness, she's done this and blah, blah.

And so when he, his first question was, tell me your story.

I'm like, what is she going to add?

Because he did a great job of, for me, of explaining what the audience would want to hear.

And I thought her story, like, yeah, she had all these, you know, illnesses and things like that.

I don't know.

Did you, what were your thoughts when, when the interview started?

As, as an opening question?

I, I always hate.

Please tell me a little bit about yourself.

I'm like, oh, there's so much better ways to start an interview.

I agree That I hate.

Tell me a little bit about yourself.

But I disagree that, that her story didn't have anything to do with his intro.

I loved, first of all, I love the casual intro of the guest.

I love that he wasn't reading her bio.

You know, I, he didn't have it in front of me.

Like, she grew up, you know, she, she earned her medical school degree from, like, I didn't, we didn't get into all that.

So I love the fact that it was a nice, casual intro.

And when he said, tell me your story, you know, tell me a little bit about yourself, I instantly thought, oh, Lord, we're, we're opening with that question.

But then he, then he qualified it, which made it palatable for me because he said, I assume you went through a lot of these challenges and illnesses to get you are today, which told her that's what I want you to focus your story on is the challenges and the illnesses that you went through to get where you are today rather than just leaving it open.

The reason I don't like tell me a little bit about yourself is now you're assuming your guest knows exactly what your audience needs to know to understand that this guest is relative in their life.

When he clarified that and put some parameters on it by saying, I'm assuming you went through these challenges and illnesses to get where you are today, he let her know that's the part of the story that we need to hear so the audience understands where you're coming from.

And there I appreciated that it wasn't just tell me your story.

So I had no, no challenge with the intro.

The part that I did have a challenge with is as she goes along, her tell me your story story, three minutes long, three minutes plus.

And to me, that was a long time to just let her roll.

I would have liked to have heard more of that as a conversation.

Him asking some clarifying questions to help me as a listener kind of know where she's going and shape the story.

So I didn't have any problem with the way he walked into it.

Yeah, he actually had.

I saw in, we always share notes and you had mentioned how he had a nice transition here.

So here's a quick clip of that.

And so that was the beginning of me becoming a teacher in this field.

Wonderful.

Let's start with the absolute fundamentals then.

The relationship between trauma and health issues.

So many people listening to this may understand that trauma could lead to hyper arousal symptoms or flashbacks or different things they've heard of, but not that many guests we've had on talk about physical health issues.

I think Kathy Kane did, for example, we've had on a while back who was excellent.

So, yeah.

What's that connection between particularly some of these kind of long term, hard to solve physical issues and trauma?

This is such a good question.

And it's the thing that I try to teach the most about, because if you can bridge that your trauma or your stress response actually is affecting your physiology, then you are more empowered to do something about it.

But.

So that's always the thing you want to hear as an interviewer is, wow, that's a really good question.

Yeah.

And I.

When they mean it, there are some guests that say that's a really good question for every question.

And I'm like, I just asked you to tell me your story.

That wasn't a really good question.

Like, I appreciate.

But she does, like, when she honestly believes it's a good question, she jumps in for it.

Yeah.

And the thing I love about this clip that you played, Mark goes back and forth with this.

Sometimes he does it really, really, really well and then other times he stumbles on himself.

This is an example here of him doing it really, really, really well.

I want you as a host to set up the question and then ask it.

I don't want you to ask the question and then justify it with a bunch of nonsense afterwards.

So here he sets up the question, then he asks it and he shuts up and he lets her answer.

There are other parts of the show where he'll ask the question and then he'll start to justify and clarify the question with a lot of stuff.

And then she's got to find a way to cut him off so she can start answering the question.

He goes back and forth in this.

But this is an example here where he did it really well.

Nice clean setup.

Ask the questions, stop talking, let her answer.

He did it really, really well here.

Yeah.

In fact, I've got a clip here where he maybe didn't do the greatest setup.

I think there's only one or two people I know, Jane Clapp was one talking about trauma and money, for example.

And this to me seems like existentially related, self worth related.

A huge part of just life in the society we live in.

And I see a lot of people undermining their business efforts.

And you know, I don't know if you're rich or anything, I don't really care, but it's clear that you've made a thing in the world that's quite successful or you're Good at presenting that way.

If not, it's fair to say, like, that successful venture.

Right.

Did you see.

Yeah.

Would you speak a little bit about trauma and money?

Because that must also.

With your coaches and all the rest.

Is that what you were.

Was that the clip you were looking for?

Yeah, yeah.

She says, yeah, yeah, yeah, I get it.

I get the question.

Yep.

Yeah, let me.

Yeah, let me answer.

I get it.

Yeah, sure.

Right.

Let me.

I get it.

Yeah.

He asks, like, four different questions there.

Because he asks a question like, isn't that something or something, question mark?

And she's like, yeah, and she's going to answer.

And then he says, something, something, something.

Right.

And she says, yeah, I'm good.

And then he says something else about something.

And then.

And then he says, tell us a little bit about your story.

And then she starts.

And then he goes.

And then about the thing.

And then I just stopped talking and let her answer the question.

Like, this is the opposite of the one we just heard.

So ask.

Do the setup.

Ask the question.

Let her answer.

Yeah, I've.

I'm guilty of that.

Sometimes where I will set it up, ask the question, and then set it up again.

And like, no, just shut up.

Right.

And let them answer.

Because if they're not clear, they'll ask for some clarity on the question, like, do you mean this or that?

Or did you want me to talk about this?

Or.

And you can always jump in and redirect them if they're going on the wrong path.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then my notes on this clip was about coaching.

Also, notice with clients, one of the questions I ask myself as a coach is, is this person stuck in a sort of existentially threatened mode that they feel this is life or death?

And this is one of the things I think we both kind of agreed on is I'm not quite sure I know he.

You know his website, he's got embodiment unlimited.com.

but it was in the beginning of that.

If he explained what he does.

It was during the beginning of that really muddy guitar reverb recorded in a cave kind of thing going on.

And I think you had the same notes.

It was like, what kind of coaching does he have?

Yeah, I don't know if he coaches people through embodiment or if he coaches other embodiment coaches because he wants to network with the podcast, or if he's a business coach helping embodiment coaches create their business.

I'm not sure what kind of coach he is.

And he.

And I don't really hear anywhere Other than his membership site, I didn't really get a lot of information on his coaching and how I can get involved with it or what it does for me.

The other thing that we both, it was funny.

We both agreed kind of at the same time, like our pens got a little more busy because I wasn't super engaged during her story.

But all of a sudden, about the 13 minute mark, we start hearing her share opinions and it was interesting.

And we were both like, hey, this is.

This is getting much better.

She was much more engaged.

You could hear the passion in her voice and the topic.

Because it was funny.

Because later she says, I got to talk about things I normally don't talk about.

And I'm going to put one of those is embodiment coaches on Instagram because when you get her going, she sounds like this.

My relationships are the things long term rather than simply.

I now know how to do a 5.5 Breath or something.

Yeah, well, this is the problem with Instagram.

They give you no context.

It's more for entertainment and to build followers.

And somatic practices are one of the number one ways to build a following right now on Instagram.

And people know that.

Now.

What I would say is that a lot of these tools, they are going to shift your nervous system state.

And if they start to flood you because you actually start to discharge energy, but you don't have the setup of limbic system retraining, you don't have the setup of self resourcing, it's not going to be a good thing.

And so to me, she just perked up.

Not that she was asleep, but I was like, oh, you've hit a nerve a little bit.

And to me, that's when things got much more interesting.

Well, and she says, I may get some hate mail for this or something like that.

Like, that's where it starts to get a little.

A little spicy.

Right?

I always say if I ask people to rate your show on a one to five scale and everybody rates it a three, you're dead in the water.

Because three just means I could take it or leave it, I really don't care.

But if you have a bunch of people rating it at 5 and a bunch of people rating it a 1, you're great.

Because that means they care one way or the other.

As long as you have more fives than ones, you're all good.

Like, get at it.

But don't try and make everybody love you by being a three.

Three just means you're riding the fence and getting splinters.

Like, don't don't get off the fence.

Get off the fence and stand for something.

And this part did.

And this is where I really started to pay attention to the show.

Yeah.

Because I'm.

I'm with you.

It was not so much a debate, but they were somewhat, ever so slightly taking potshots at people and then explaining why.

Like, she even said there, hey, you can get all these tools, but if you use the tools wrong, you're gonna, you know, overflow your something, something, and blah, blah, blah.

And it was like, all right.

So she made a comment about being a pharmacy.

Like, you got a degree in chemistry, and then you opened up a pharmacy and said, come on in, everybody.

Everything's free.

Take what you'd like.

It was like, she goes, that's what.

It's like spreading this information on Instagram.

Like, if you don't know what you're doing, it could be detrimental to you.

And I thought that was great.

Like, take a stand.

I love hearing when people have an opinion, even when I don't agree with it.

At least you had the courage to do something unique and have an opinion about it.

Yeah.

I love the fact that, again, you could just hear her like, okay, that's a nerve.

And the other thing that when they got in there and they're talking about the tools, that's when I was like, oh, this is definitely for coaches, because for somebody who's not an embodiment coach, I was like, what is this jargon?

And I love the fact that at one point she actually did a demonstration, which is not like, we'll play this here, but it's basically, we're going to listen to somebody breathe.

It's a great, easy one.

So a physiological sigh.

You're going to breathe in, Breathe in again, and let it out as a sigh.

Just do that again.

And so I was like, okay.

Because when they were talking about tools, I thought they were talking about apps or something, or whatever.

And I'm like, they're just talking about breathing.

Oh, okay.

I get it.

So.

And when I realized that, I was like, because the other thing that was somewhat funny, if you're not in this.

This is just a great example of, you know, some jargon that everybody else knows that you don't if you're not, you know, doing this kind of work.

That's right.

A lot of people like the functional neurology eye exercises.

I love them.

But some people need.

It's too much.

So they need to just simply start with a heart coherence breath.

Not even the vu The VU might be too discharging for some people.

I can't take too much vu, man.

And I was like, I have no idea what they're talking about, but they seem to know.

Yeah, I'm hoping the niche knows because there were a lot of, a lot of names in this, a lot of name dropping.

And I can't, I can't be critical of the name dropping because maybe this niche knows that those.

Just make sure they do.

When you're talking about authors and influencers and experts in the niche, just make sure your niche knows who they are.

And if your target is well aware of these people and they're well aware of the voo, then knock yourself out.

But if it's new or maybe beginners aren't quite aware what it is, you might want to explain it just a little bit.

But yeah, I loved, I love the fact that they started getting into some stuff like this because at this part, when they started getting into the controversial Instagram stuff and they got into this stuff and the tools, to me it felt like the podcast interview took a turn from being a question answer session where he would ask a question and she would go on for a few minutes into being a conversation where there was a lot of give and take because he would offer a little, she would offer a little, he would offer a little, she would offer a little.

And it, the momentum of the interview really picked up at this point.

Yeah, absolutely.

And then so things are going along great and we have a little mid roll spot and well, we have a problem with pre recorded things too crazy to do.

Kundalini, you do have.

So we have the nice little guitar comes back in and then.

Okay, quick interruption here to ask you a favor.

Can you give us a review?

So apparently reviews of podcasts on itunes and Spotify really, really help.

There's kind of like rankings, you know, when you put in embodiment or topic trauma or whatever will just be invisible to a lot compared to a lot of the source.

So that's enough of that.

But we get the idea.

It's, it just, it's, it's not great audio for me.

I was, at times I have a hard time understanding what he's saying.

Not because of the accent, but just because the guitar is so loud.

And it's one of those things where when you have a little bit of room, noise or reverb, it just sounds like you're sitting eight feet away.

And when you don't have that, it sounds like they're sitting right in front of you.

So if you have that guitar music, you don't really have to have the audio of, you know, the speaker as loud as you might need if there's this reverb, because it sounds like you're 15ft away from me.

So I love the transitions.

I know you had mentioned that where it's a great way where she's, you know, the end of her question and the guitar fades in and then it comes in.

But that for me, I just was like, ugh, that was not great.

I didn't find the guitar too loud.

I didn't really notice the guitar because again, I'm not listening in headphones.

I'm listening in the car while I'm driving.

So it didn't overbear me.

His audio quality on his mic was what I was focused on.

And maybe if the audio.

If the mic audio quality was a little stronger, maybe the guitar would have bothered me.

But I can't tell if it's the room he's recording in or if he actually added reverb onto it in post production.

But either way, it has that reverb quality to it, which makes it.

It for my ears, a little.

A little difficult to understand when he's doing the interview.

I can understand it perfectly.

I love that.

It's.

It's the intro, outro, and mid roll that got me.

Yeah.

The other thing, just for the record, reviews are social proof, but a lot of people think they help you get found.

Like, oh, you go up the algorithm if you have tons of reviews, and Apple has come out and said that is not the case, but they are social proof.

So if there are two shows on embodiment coaching, and one has 27 reviews and the other one has 106.

Okay, I could see where that would be important.

But so many people think they're like the magic ticket to being found.

And I'm like, no, Apple has debunked that.

This one, you had mentioned this, and so did I.

I was like, oh, this is great in the fact that if you want people to share your interview, you have to ask questions that they haven't been asked before.

And so this one, I thought it was great because she had just shared, you know, that she has this membership site with all these people.

And so Mark kind of asked her, since we're talking about mentally dealing with things, he pops out this question, and.

You said, like, thousands of people.

That's a pretty heavy field to be in in terms of, like, vicarious trauma.

How do you manage that personally?

You know, and.

Exactly.

And she goes into the answer.

But to me, I love the fact he's like a.

Not only have thousands of people that you're helping, but they're all talking about trauma.

And I would think that's got to be kind of after a while, like, oh, if I have somebody come in here and, you know, tell me about how this is bothering them and it's wrecking their, you know, systems and everything like that, it's got to be hard to deal with.

So I.

I'm with you.

I thought that was a good question.

Oddly enough, that clip right there, that was the only breath that stood out to me in the entire podcast where he.

He ends the question.

Play that question again.

You'll hear it.

At the end of his question, he goes.

And then that was the only one that stood out to me.

How do you manage that personally, you know?

Yeah, it's as I.

That was the only one.

That was the only one I noticed.

Yeah.

As I look at the sound wave, his actual breath is as loud as the actual rest of that.

The other thing I thought he did a good job of, because as I listened to this and, you know, everybody has their own tolerance for life in general.

And there was a part of me when they were talking about some of this stuff, like, I've never understood the phrase empowered.

Like, I feel empowered to do this.

I'm like, what does it exactly mean?

But there was a part of me that was kind of like where some of this might pertain to people who have what I call the victimhood kind of mindset.

And I thought it was interesting because they actually openly talked about that.

And as Mark is in this industry, to even hint that, hey, maybe some people are just making it all about them.

And so I love this question.

Nice.

And it sounds like you haven't sort of fully bought into the.

There's kind of a lot of victim culture around at the moment.

And Haidt calls it the sacred victim.

It's almost like a religion in liberal America.

It's like a sort of sacred.

Not so much in Jim World, for example, example that I'm in, but it's.

It's.

It's this sort of sacred victim culture.

It sounds like you found a way to sort of compassionately orientate to that.

So I thought there are two things about that.

Number one, he's talking about something that might be a little sensitive, but also he says, not in my, like, the gym world that he talks about.

So he's even identifying that this really isn't his jam either.

And I thought any Again, anytime you voice an opinion, somebody may not like it, and I just.

I like the fact.

And then later, they actually.

I don't know if I clipped this one, but they actually brought up politics and the fact that, you know, they really kind of don't go there, because, as we all know, the minute you start talking politics, everything goes downhill.

And it was interesting because Mark said that his team asked him to stop doing one particular marketing method because it was attracting the wrong.

These kind of people that they didn't want to work with.

Like, they were.

They were more difficult when it came to customer service and, you know, just problem child.

And they said, stop doing that thing that keeps attracting these people because they're hard to work with.

So it's great that he got clarity on who he wants to work with.

And I love that they're.

They're discussing it, which is pretty awesome.

Yeah.

And then he threw in this question, which I occasionally throw this one in when you're, like, not sure what else I should ask.

Well, then just ask him this.

What's the question you wish you got asked on interviews when you're sort of bored of answering the same old questions?

Honestly, I've appreciated this one because I've talked about several things I haven't gotten to talk about publicly.

And so, Eric, I'll let you go first.

I love that.

That is the biggest compliment an interviewer can get.

When the guest says, I've never talked about this on a podcast, or, wow, I've never been asked that before.

Like, when you take them aback because you've asked such a great question, you know, you're hitting all.

All cylinders as an interviewer, which I thought was awesome.

And this question here, I love the question.

I think, what's the question you wish you would be asked when you get bored of answering the same questions?

I love that question as kind of a, let's talk about something you don't normally get to talk about.

But the fact that she says, you've already asked me a bunch of stuff I never get to talk about.

What a great way.

What a great compliment for Mark as an interviewer.

Yeah.

And her response was quick and she didn't really drag it out.

So it wasn't like something where it's like, if she took two minutes to say, I don't know, well, then you'd take it out.

But hers was like, boy, we've kind of hit that.

Threw in a nice compliment, which makes Mark look good.

And because I've thrown that out, and there are times when People go die when you're like, all right, well, you just take it.

I'm just following the script.

What are you talking about?

I don't know.

You're supposed to ask me a question, I'm supposed to answer.

So when you throw them, what do you want to talk about now?

That kind of throws them back.

But, yeah, I thought it was cool.

By the end, did you feel like there was.

You could kind of hear the camaraderie or.

I don't know if that's the right word, but they just felt more comfortable.

Not that they didn't feel comfortable at the beginning, but by the middle they had bonded over Instagram and it just felt like a great conversation.

Yeah.

At the beginning of the podcast, it was very much formal question and answer sort of session.

And by the end of it, it's two buddies hanging out talking shop.

And I loved the transformation as we went through the interview.

And then they wrapped up the episode.

With this smiley lady from the U.S.

Kathleen, I think I love you a little bit.

Thank you so much for joining us today.

Thank you, Mark, if you like that, you probably like embodiment unlimited.com and our.

App now, I've heard that four times and I still.

And like, I know he's saying Embodiment.

Unlimited, embodiment unlimited.com, but the Unlimited there.

I was like, what did he say?

So on both of these things, you can get a bunch of podcasts that aren't available here and some exclusive ones with some big names, some people you'll probably recognize that are over there.

There's a copy of my book PDF, my first book on Embodiment, which seems to people like sold quite a few copies on Amazon, but there's a free copy there.

What else is there?

Loads of videos of me coaching Embodiment resources on trauma or meditation on yoga.

And you can also chat to people without going on Facebook or any of that nonsense.

So if you want to chat embodiment people, that's there.

And it's on the ornament unlimited.com all free.

And the app available at the App Store and all that good stuff.

So if you like this, do check those out.

And then of course, the soothing sounds of somebody that's a pretty good picker.

So I'm usually the guy that bashes on 127 calls to action.

Right.

And on the surface of this, I thought, do I dislike it because there are so many things he mentions, or do I like it because everything he mentions is all over at the website?

And I fell on I like it because it's all at the website.

Like he gave the.

All of the things he mentioned were reasons to go to the website.

He wasn't saying download my course and send me an email.

And he wasn't telling me to do 27 things.

He was saying go to the website because here's what you can get.

And it's all at the website or on the app, which to kids these days, same thing.

What's a website?

How about you use your phone app to call me?

What?

There's one of those on my phone?

Yeah.

Yes.

So I loved the clean call to action.

I hope Mark will rerecord his open and his close so I can understand it a little better.

Yeah, I call it the website sandwich where it's like, hey, if you need.

And I've heard you do this actually where you'll be like, hey, website podcasttalentcoach.com everything you need over there.

You've got all my worksheets, you've got all this.

If you want to hire me for coaching, it's all there.

Podcasttalentcoach.com and to me I call that a website sandwich.

And like you said, you're giving people reasons to give that because really, and he did a good job here.

The last thing you want them to hear is your website because that's where we want people to go.

Yeah, I thought the content of the clothes was solid.

The audio quality needs, needs a little juicing up.

It needs a lot juicing up in.

My trying to be nice, but it could really used to be recorded again.

The embodiment podcast@entodiment unlimited.com.

let's go to the homepage here and see what that looks like.

So on the podcast or on the website up top in his pull down menus, there's a lot of choices.

Oh, and there's my pop up.

So he's got a pop up that comes up maybe 10, 15 seconds after you've been here.

Want in Free embodiment learning.

Get the free stuff.

Now I like this pop up because it gives me a reason.

It doesn't say, hey, sign up to our newsletter and that's it.

Right.

So many people say sign up to our newsletter.

Nobody's getting up in the morning going, boy, I sure hope I get another newsletter in my inbox today.

Like they're trying to figure out how to clean out their inbox.

Exactly.

But he says, do you want free embodiment learning?

Oh, now it's going away.

And it gives you the reasons and the benefits.

To sign up for the newsletter, there's.

You can get embodiment learning, you can get all these things, they're all inside the newsletter.

Sign up comes right to your email.

So I like that part.

The pull down menus, my account, free resources, the podcast, in person events, contact our shop, our courses and more.

There are a lot of options up here.

Yeah.

So if you follow storybrand by Donald Miller, your eye usually on a website starts in the upper left where he's got his logo.

Perfect.

It moves over to the right.

The right should be your call to action.

The one thing you want them to do.

So whatever you want them to do should be up there.

He's got the more section drop down there which is the embodiment studio, the team and the partnership program.

So I would put the whatever you want them to do there.

Then it comes down at a 45 degree angle through the middle of the page to the lower left and across the lower left.

And the bottom says are you in the right place?

Which I like.

I like the white space.

He's got two things in the middle, the embodiment starter kit and the coaching tools kit.

So I like the clean look of this.

The homepage above the fold.

There are only a couple things I would change.

Yeah, I was with you.

I know for me I was confused as to why is there our shop.

Shop and our courses, like why, why wouldn't you just put your courses under your shop?

Because that's basically buy stuff kind of thing.

So I.

If we were looking for things to combine, I think that would be something I would look into.

The other thing, I thought that was maybe.

Well, to that point, Dave, free resources, in person events, our shop and our courses could all go under the store thing.

It could all go under the.

It could all go under our resources tab or something like that.

And then under there you could have free resources.

Our courses, here's our shop, here's our in person events.

And it's like their front page is kind of an about page.

But I still was like, when I go to a website and it's new, the first thing I usually click on, if it's not entirely obvious, is an about page just for a summary of like what the heck am I looking at?

But in theory you've kind of hit it.

He's got it at the bottom where it says are you in the right place?

And then it kind of explains what they do.

They've got a video there if you'd like to do.

And then they've got a big Long list of things you like to do.

So I guess you don't really need an about page.

But they also do a good job of sticking with their color theme.

Everything's kind of this green with a little bit of dark blue and some white in there.

And so it's nice that there's not some giant bright orange, you know, button next to a purple one that also has the brown one and the blue one.

And everything seems to have kind of an overall theme to it.

And then when we get to the bottom.

Nice testimonials there.

Yeah, I like the scroll of the testimonial carousel.

Yeah.

He's got his live embodiment certifications, the certification of embodiment coaching, and the embody toolkit certification there.

And then some self paced courses, which there are a ton.

Like there's.

I mean, if you're an embodiment, he's got a lot of great content on here.

Yeah.

And he's got some good pictures there to show you.

Exactly what the heck does this look like?

Where the one picture, it has a lot of like, wait, what is.

It's a bunch of people basically spooning each other in a circle kind of is what I.

It's just one of those pictures where you're like, wait, what kind of training is that?

So it catches your eye.

It's done.

It's not somebody's iPhone.

It looks like these have been professionally made.

And he's got his links there to his apps in the bottom right hand corner, which is great because if you're looking for those, it's nice that they're on the front page.

And all in all, I thought for, you know, I'm with you.

I think there are a lot of choices on the front page, but he's got a lot of stuff.

It's.

It's really hard when you have all this stuff.

How do you organize it in a way that, you know, people can actually figure out?

And I think if he's trying to get coaching coaches into his program and help them if he wants to coach embodiment coaches, there are a lot of coaching toolkits and things like that.

And it walks you through why you should do it.

Are you in the right place?

If you like these sorts of things, here's the opportunity, here's the testimonials of everybody.

Here are your two options of what we offered in terms of us helping you.

And then if you want to kind of go through the self paced embodiment courses, there's 6 12, there's 18 of them here and then certification workshops around the world.

You can learn for free.

And then again, sign up for our newsletter, which I think is pretty solid overall.

For a homepage, going over to the podcast page.

I love the cleanness.

I love the white space on here.

A variety of hosts over on the right.

So the four hosts are listed there and I like the directory.

So it gives you kind of a little two sentence snapshot of what the episode is about and then you can click on the episode and get into it for the full show notes.

I think the show notes are clean.

I love his.

The links all stand out, so they're super easy to find.

The show notes aren't, you know, 16 pages of transcription.

It's pretty clean and tells you exactly what you're looking for.

So I love the way the links that he mentions on the show stand out.

You can get a free copy of Mark's book.

You can join Mark for in person workshops.

Here's free coaching demos.

You can find him on Instagram.

You can find out about his guest here and here.

So.

So to me, I like the way the page is set up.

Yeah, the only thing I would change and it's not, again, it's kind of nitpicky, but I'm just here to tell you, it looks so much better.

They're using an older version of Libsyn's player and the newer version has more functionality like a speed control and a volume control.

And if we want to get our nerd on, That's a Libsyn 4 player and you want the Libsyn 5 player which allows you just to match it to their color a little more.

So that's again, it's functional, it works.

And then the other thing is if we.

Towards the bottom they have a button that says itunes store.

And I would.

It's again nitpicky when I see the word store.

I think you're trying to sell me something.

And so I know because I've seen these other buttons on their website where they have buttons to Apple podcast and I would just get one that's the same size of the one that you have there for Spotify and just have it.

I think Apple has one that's like listen and Apple podcasts or something like that.

So yeah, being up to 649 episodes, this was probably added years and years and years ago.

And when Apple changes to Apple Podcasts rather than itunes, we just don't think about going back and changing the graphics that we have on our website.

When the links that we have are linking to those sorts of things.

So it's just something that.

Just a little cleanup.

I do like your point about the Libsyn player.

The new Libsyn 5 player is pretty slick and embedding that gives you so many options on sharing it with others, and you can have your artwork on there and all sorts of great stuff.

So I really.

I really like that.

I'd love to see him start using that on this page as well.

But all in all, for all the stuff he had on there, I've seen much worse websites.

And, you know, he's doing a decent job of getting it all organized.

And, you know, I'm with you.

I think there's a lot of options at the top, but, you know, like you said, there are a lot of things you could kind of put under a submenu and things of that nature, so.

Yeah.

Though there are a ton of things on this homepage you can scroll for days.

Yeah.

It doesn't look cluttered.

I mean, even when you get down here to the embodiment courses, they're all uniform.

They're, you know, they're all evenly lined, like they're all on the same plane.

It doesn't look cluttered because it's very well organized.

And I appreciate that for the aesthetics of the.

Of the site itself.

Yeah, it's one of those little things that just.

The fact that everything lines up, it just shows that you went a little extra further to make sure it looks okay and you have a great first impression and versus where it just looks like somebody threw them on a page and they just landed wherever they landed, and you're like, oof, that's not so good.

So you look professional, which is what I love about it.

Yeah.

Yeah.

Very good.

So, Eric, any final thoughts on the embodiment of.

Oh, there you go.

Edit point one.

Coach.

What's.

What's the name?

Yeah, no.

Embodiment coaching.

Okay, Eric, any final thoughts on the Embodiment Coaching podcast?

Overall, I loved it.

I love the conversation.

I love the interview style, especially like, the.

The last half of it when they got friendly and it really started to become a conversation.

I will.

I would definitely clean up the audio for the intro and outro.

Again, we're in 650 episodes.

Not sure when the last time you recorded the intro and outro, but let's bring it up to 2024 standards.

The.

The middle squishy part is the dropping of the names and the references to the techniques.

If your audience is familiar with it, then by all means, roll with it.

If you think your audience could benefit from a little more explanation, then fold a little bit of that in.

What I would love to hear would be a little more story.

Get her to tell a story.

Tell me about a time that happened, or tell me how you got through this.

So more stories and fewer tactics.

But overall, I thought it was a solid conversation and a great interview.

What'd you think?

Yeah, I'm with you.

The big thing, because I'm not an embodiment coach, most of this went over my head and so, but the thing when I hit play at about the five minute or five second mark, had this been a subject that I actually liked, I probably still would have tuned out.

To me, that was like, ooh, that is not good audio.

So that would be.

And it's easy to fix.

It's really easy to fix.

And again, to me, it just sounds like somebody's playing with this audio a little too much.

The.

There's not a lot of clarity on the S's and T's.

It's.

I think you said muddy, and to me, that's a great description of it.

It just sounds a little muddy.

And that's, you know, apply a little EQ and you're, you're good to go.

So.

But all in all, and again, we, you know, Eric already mentioned it.

The call to action at the end, I thought was a nice website sandwich for me.

And it's probably because I'm a guitar player.

I'm too busy listening to the guitar in the background and I'm like, it's too loud.

But all in all, I thought it was good.

They did have a couple questions because they knew they couldn't be here.

And so the one was they asked about the audio, and I think we both agreed that needs some work.

And then the one question they had was, how fast, you know, does a podcast grow?

And that's a, you know, we'll, we'll get ready for an hour long answer here.

I mean, that's, that's a hard one to answer, right?

How long does it take to make a million dollars?

Like, I don't know.

What are you selling?

It depends.

It depends, right?

Exactly.

So I, like, I'm not as concerned with the growth of my podcast in terms of sheer numbers.

When I look at my podcast, I just want the downloads this month to be greater than the downloads last month and to make sure that I'm heading in the right trajectory.

And if that's going in the right direction for me, I'm doing the podcast because I love doing the podcast.

I'm talking with great people, I'm helping people, and people are finding it.

And so when it comes to growing your podcast, there's two sides of the equation.

You have to go out and get in front of people who don't know you and invite them to your show.

And then you have to keep your current listeners coming back episode after episode.

And as long as you're doing that and the podcast is growing, then I don't know that there's a real answer to how fast it will grow.

Just work consistently and it will grow over time.

Yeah.

And for me, I'd almost point it back at if you're a little frustrated with the growth, you might be frustrated because you're not getting your why.

And we're a little blurry on, you know, I want to network, but I want more downloads.

But is that for coaching clients or whatever?

So sometimes knowing your why can kind of reduce some of the impatience.

Because we're all impatient.

We all want 10,000 downloads tomorrow.

So that's normal.

Yes.

It just doesn't work that way.

But.

But Eric hit the nail on the head.

And when we say consistency, there's two places for that.

One is in schedule, because when you release on a regular schedule, you become part of their routine.

And then consistency in value, because anytime I ever hear somebody go, hey, I don't know what we're going to talk about on the show today, but it's Thursday and I promised you a show and, like, hit stop immediately because that guy's going to waste 20 minutes of your time.

And then the other question, I would agree with that.

The other thing they asked me.

I know.

And swipe left and delete.

Yes.

Was they were asking about data.

Where can we find out more than the, you know, download numbers?

And you're using Libsyn.

So if you're on their pro plan, said the guy that used to work at Libsyn, you can see what countries people are listening in.

You can see what state and what city they're in.

But in terms of everybody wants to know, well, yeah, but do they like it?

And the best place to see that, there are two.

And I saw those on your website, and that's Apple and Spotify.

And the website for Apple is podcasts with an S podcastconnect.apple.com and there they'll show you how many people have followed you.

Now, remember, when you're looking at Apple, you're only looking at people that are using, you know, an iPhone or Apple podcast, whatever.

They're on.

So you can see how many people have subscribed again, you can see where they're from.

But my favorite thing is the completion percentage.

And as much as we ask, man, I wish I know how far people are listening.

I do say be careful what you ask for because I've seen some people, like, wait, they're bailing after 30%?

You're like, huh, maybe.

Or the other thing I should mention is that the beginning of your show, your regular, like, for me, I think the last time I checked, I'm like 89% of my people are following the show on Apple, which is great.

I love that.

But that also means that as soon as they hit play, there's a huge just waterfall of showing how many people are listening because they've all heard my intro 800 times.

So when I start, like broadcasting, since they're like, okay, yeah, skip.

And then they know they're going to get to the content quickly.

So don't, don't get upset if you see a bunch of people will, you know, stop at the very beginning.

Well, and yeah, what you need to remember when you're looking at how far through the podcast they get the completion, it's an average.

So if people listen and they go, oh, yeah, I've heard this one, and they stop, that's going to skew your average.

Like, it's going.

It's not going to be 100% because it's an average.

So be aware of that.

Dave, I have a question for you.

When it comes to stats.

So there's all of these charts that claim that they aggregate all of the listening everywhere and they turn it into this chart.

I've always heard in the past that Apple does not share their statistics and their data with anybody.

Is that still the case or have they been open with that?

Yeah, they've never.

Trust me, every media host is like, hey, can we pull these great stats you have into our dashboard?

And their answer is no, we want people to go to our website to do this, which is kind of annoying, but.

But it's their toy.

We can't tell them how to use it.

But yeah, the other thing that's great about Apple is you can go in, like, for me, I have an ad in the middle of my show and I can see right where it dips for about 30 seconds.

You can see where everybody hits fast forward.

But I know there's one company that Apple is somewhat partnered with for something and it might be part of their stats, but there's one I can't remember what the name of it was, but yeah, the only place you can get this is an Apple, and then the other place and they give you a little more.

But it's not as pretty, of course, is Spotify.

If you go to podcasters.Spotify.com you can log in there.

And if you had your media host submitted for you, you might have to go in and claim it, which just means that whole double authentication thing.

And then you can have it in your dashboard and you can see how far people listened, and you can see, you know, the typical kind of stats.

But the one thing you can get in Spotify that you can't get anyplace else is a demographic.

They will show you what percentage of your audience is male or female, what their age is, and my favorite, their favorite musical artists.

And you're like, wow, I have a really weird, you know, audience because they're into Blake Shelton and Tool.

You're like, wait, what?

That doesn't make any sense.

Let's hear that mashup.

So those are two places that you can get get, you know, more information.

Aside from that, you know, the good old survey, go to Google forms and make your own, or there's a bunch of different places, you know, type form and, you know, et cetera.

Dave, let me ask you about this.

If you go to chartable.

Yeah.

Chartable.com it has the Apple podcast charts.

Yep.

And the Spotify podcast charts.

So are they just taking information straight from the Apple website and saying, here's what, Here are the charts.

Yeah, this must be some sort of API that that Apple is made public.

But what's sad is Chartable is going away.

This is a Spotify product, and unless you're on megaphone, you're probably not going to have access to this much longer.

But it doesn't show you how many downloads.

It just shows, you know, right now under Entrepreneurship Real AF with Andy Frazilia is number one, and et cetera, et cetera.

So you can.

Yeah.

So I bet if you go on Apple Podcasts and you look under the top podcasts in entrepreneurship, this is the list.

Yeah.

So they probably have a tool that just scrapes the website to find this.

Over on.

Over on listen notes, you know, you can click on hot and come up with the what they deem as the hot podcasts that are getting listened to at the moment.

Any idea what goes into this data?

Yeah, this is.

Some people will put.

You can get a player from listen notes and put it on your website so that when people click play on your website through a Listen notes player.

You get more plays, and then you show up hot.

So the big question is, what does that get you?

You know, I don't know.

A lot of people that are listening to stuff on Listen Notes are going to.

I know people that obsess over this because they have a.

You can see your top ranking.

Like, you know, I think the school of podcasting is a top 5% podcast, but if you look at their algorithm, it's like, congratulations.

That show about the biggest loser from 2004.

It's been dead for, you know, 20 years.

You're beating them.

And I'm like, thank you so much.

So I don't put a lot of weight into the Listen note stats, but more and more people are claiming that.

And I'm like, I always go, well, that either means a, you don't know that maybe that's not the greatest criteria, or B, you do know when you're just trying to pull a wool over somebody's eyes, like, yeah, I'm a top five podcast, so.

But.

But, yeah, so that answers your question where you can get some data.

But in the long run, it takes not weeks, not months, but typically years to build an audience.

And so that's why you want to pick something you love so that you're not burnt out on it and just keep going.

Growth is a journey, not a destination.

How many more listeners do you need?

Well, just a few more and just keep on keeping on and let it grow over time.

Yeah.

And we'll have links to everything out at our website, podcastreviewshow.com the seats always open.

Anytime you're ready, come out and we'll be happy to give you some feedback on that.

Eric, where can people find you?

You can always find me over@podcasttalentcoach.com find out what I have going on and what we're up to.

All of my coaching information, helpful worksheets, and all of that content can be found atpodcasttalent coach.com.

Nice.

How about you, Dave?

Where are you at?

You can find me at School of podcasting dot com.

Thanks so much for listening, and we'll see you again real soon with another episode of the podcast review show.

Yay.

Just in time.