User-Driven Updates in Twisted Wave: What to Expect

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai - Go Unlimited to remove this message) Y'all ready to be history?

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It's started.

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Welcome.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hello everyone.

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To the pro audio suite.

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These guys are professional, they're motivated.

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Thanks to Triboosh, the best vocal booths for

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home or on the road voice recording.

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And Austrian Audio, making passion heard.

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Introducing Robert Marshall from Source Elements and someone

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audio post Chicago.

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Darren Robert Robertson from Voodoo Radio Imaging, Sydney.

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Ted to the VO Stars, George the Tech

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Witten from LA, and me, Andrew Pinkers, voiceover

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talent and home studio guy.

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Line up, man!

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Here we go.

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And welcome to another pro audio suite, thanks

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to Austrian Audio, making passion heard.

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And Triboosh, don't forget the code TRIPAP200 to

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get $200 off your Triboosh.

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Now Twisted Wave is a very popular, I

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was going to say DAW, but it's probably

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more...

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It's a recorder editor.

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Yeah, we lump it into the DAW category,

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but it's not truly one.

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It's not really a DAW, no.

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But anyway, Thomas, the owner of Twisted Wave,

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has just done a survey, and George, you

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have the results.

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Yeah, you might recategorize the software when I

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tell you this.

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So he put out a poll, and he

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used to actually have a voteable feature list

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on the site, but he kind of hid

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it away.

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And then now, if you are a current

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subscriber, you are on the current version, then

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you can do things like, you know, vote

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on features.

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So for five days, he said, let me

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have it.

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Just tell me what you want, right?

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And then you let you enter anything you

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want.

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And what he did was he locked it

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to your serial number.

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So from within the Twisted Wave macOS app,

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you go to the help menu, and you

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would say, vote features.

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You would click that, and it would go

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to...

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How many times can you vote?

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Well, you could add as many features as

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you wanted, right?

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So I added like six features.

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Yeah, absolutely.

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Yeah, no problem with that.

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So when you click on that, I want

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to vote, then the link in the browser

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was twistedwave.com slash your serial number, which

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was interesting.

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So it knew who you were and locked

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all the votes to you.

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So then everybody put in all their features.

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It was like, you know, it was wish

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list day.

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There was some redundancy on the list and

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whatever, but whatever the bottom line was, everybody

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got their say.

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Then five days after that, it was now

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time to vote on the suggested features.

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Now you had to pick what was already

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there.

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And he said, whatever the new feature, the

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one that gets the most votes is, I'm

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going to do it as in a new

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feature.

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What do you guess?

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Bodhi, Mick, feature, boat, boat.

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Bodhi, what?

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I reckon we should guess, try and have

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a guess on this.

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I'll have what you're having.

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Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Oh, you might want to...

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They had that thing where they had a

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new boat in England and they put its

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name nomination up on the web.

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And the one that got the most votes

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for the name of the boat was Bodhi,

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Mick, boat, boat or something.

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Everybody pranked them.

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Yeah.

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Like Bodhi, Mick, boat face or something.

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Exactly.

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That's funny.

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I'm going to have a guess.

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I reckon I think I know what it...

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Well, I don't know.

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I'm just guessing.

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I reckon it's going to be multi-track.

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Okay.

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What do you think, Darren?

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I don't know.

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I don't really use Twisted Wave.

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Does it come with any plugins?

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That's the thing.

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If you don't use it, you don't know

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what it does and doesn't do its project.

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Well, my guess would be that if there's

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a lot of voiceover people that use it,

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that it might be some noise reduction or

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something like that that comes with it.

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I don't know.

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Okay.

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I think, George, you alluded to it too

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much and it's multi-track because you said

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it's going to change its name or...

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Yeah, I get it the way.

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It is indeed multi-track.

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Really?

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So that was...

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That's kind of a shine.

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Well, I mean, I was like...

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So I'm looking at it and I saw

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it on the list and I was like,

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oh man, people always want multi-track.

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Man, they always want...

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But is it multi-track or are they

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just asking for multi-channel wave?

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Because if it's multi-channel wave, it's not

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multi-track.

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It already does multi-channel waves.

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It'll do many channels.

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But they want to multi-track.

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So we all know that there's a very

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big divide between a recorder editor and a

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DAW.

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Yes.

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Because a DAW implies an NLE, which means

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it's also going to be non-destructive, right?

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Very different animal from Soundforge, WaveLab, or Twisted

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Wave, where you're just working on the wave

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file.

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Absolutely.

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That's what they want.

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The people spoke and he's like, I'm going

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to do it.

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So I have no idea how long it

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will take.

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I do not know how he's going to

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do it.

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I think it's one of those features where

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he's been hearing...

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But this could go beyond what a voice

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talent wants.

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Exactly.

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This is a feature that's been like murmured

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about by the users for years, right?

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So he's finally decided to do it.

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So he insisted that he would do it

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in such a way that it would not

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interfere with the normal operation and software.

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I think that's important.

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This is Adobe Audition.

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That's right.

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There's Wave...

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What's it called?

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Waveform mode in Adobe Audition?

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And then there's multi-track.

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And every editor used to have this.

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Pro Tools used to have Sound Designer 2.

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If you go way back in history, they

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just got rid of it.

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And that was used as more of a

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file processing thing.

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But even Reaper...

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And Reaper, you can say, you know, show

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me what your editor is.

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It's not logic.

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You can open up this file in whatever

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you want.

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And Reaper had that and many does.

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I know Steinberg Cubase has that, which obviously

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they would point at WaveLab.

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But they have an open-end editor option.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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So, yeah.

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I kind of feel like that, you know,

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a lot of voice talent and stuff that

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I've spoken to use Twisted Wave.

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And I'm guessing Andrew would be the same.

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I don't remember having this conversation with him.

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But my guess would be the same thing,

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is that it's simple.

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It's just...

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There's no...

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I don't have to screw around.

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I can open it up.

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I know enough about audio data.

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I can understand the basics and that's all

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it does.

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And that makes me happy because I don't

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have to get stuck with shit that I

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don't understand.

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It's a DAT tape with a waveform display

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that you can cut and splay.

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That's right.

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Totally.

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It is.

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And that would be my concern that, you

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know, when they sort of do what they

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do, they sort of lose a few because

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of that.

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But, yeah.

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I don't actually understand if you're a voice

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talent.

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What use would you have for multitrack?

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I don't get that.

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You know why?

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Because so many voice actors think that they

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have to add music to their voiceovers.

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There's a huge amount of misinformation.

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Who's asking for this?

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Someone's like, I need to submit an audition.

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How do I add music?

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I'm like, no.

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Why would you add music to an audition?

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That is not your job.

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If you're auditioning for a producer job, well,

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they're going to want more than music, man.

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There's a lot more to it.

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How about some sound design and bells and

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whistles?

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Yeah.

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Every now and then there's a voiceover person

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that you meet that does like the full

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production.

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And they're always using Pro Tools and they

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actually have their head on them about being

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basically an audio engineer at that point.

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Like Jeff Berlin or, you know, we have

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friends in the biz that are radio producers.

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You know, they produce imaging.

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Some musicians and they're just recording their own

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stuff that way.

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Right.

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Yeah.

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I'm sorry.

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That makes no sense.

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Still makes no sense to me whatsoever.

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Why as a voiceover artist you would feel

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compelled to be putting music on your audition

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is just like, it's sort of like, hey,

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I might just, you know, I really want

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to distract you.

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So I might just throw this other voicing

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here as well.

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There's a second part of the voiceover.

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You know, it's a two-headed voiceover.

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So I've got my wife to do the

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other part.

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She's on there too.

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Would you really do that?

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I don't think so.

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To me the question is why.

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So is the assumption that he's going to

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do a DAW in a different way or

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a better way than the other attempts, which

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I can understand.

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There's, you know, there's a certain stagnation in

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that world.

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Well, let's take that further.

280
00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:55,580
If you could start from absolutely zero, which

281
00:07:55,580 --> 00:07:57,860
is what he's really doing and make a

282
00:07:57,860 --> 00:08:02,640
new, you know, multi-track, non-destructive mixing

283
00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:03,400
platform.

284
00:08:03,900 --> 00:08:07,520
What would you do totally differently from Pro

285
00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:09,540
Tools or really what is there anything new

286
00:08:09,540 --> 00:08:10,020
to do?

287
00:08:10,020 --> 00:08:11,520
I guess is my question.

288
00:08:11,780 --> 00:08:12,620
What would you do differently?

289
00:08:12,760 --> 00:08:14,420
The only thing I think the anything I

290
00:08:14,420 --> 00:08:16,780
would think if because of his target audience

291
00:08:16,780 --> 00:08:17,720
that if he was going to do a

292
00:08:17,720 --> 00:08:19,320
multi-track thing is to make it like

293
00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:20,080
super simple.

294
00:08:20,240 --> 00:08:20,560
Of course.

295
00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:22,400
Like the current the current twisted wave.

296
00:08:22,400 --> 00:08:23,980
So even if you're a bit of a

297
00:08:23,980 --> 00:08:25,240
numpty, you're going to work it out pretty

298
00:08:25,240 --> 00:08:26,940
anything multi-track isn't simple.

299
00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:28,740
You know, you move one.

300
00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:30,240
You move one thing on one track and

301
00:08:30,240 --> 00:08:31,280
you fuck the whole thing up.

302
00:08:31,280 --> 00:08:32,620
If you don't know what you're doing, you

303
00:08:32,620 --> 00:08:34,360
know, multi-track, no matter what you do,

304
00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:35,000
isn't simple.

305
00:08:35,220 --> 00:08:35,860
Who is it for?

306
00:08:36,159 --> 00:08:38,520
Because, you know, if you look at video

307
00:08:38,520 --> 00:08:41,400
editors, they're basically doing their audio in their

308
00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:41,880
NLE.

309
00:08:42,460 --> 00:08:45,360
If you look at audio, people running multi

310
00:08:45,360 --> 00:08:48,740
-track DAWs, he's got a big upsell to

311
00:08:48,740 --> 00:08:49,680
do anything against.

312
00:08:49,680 --> 00:08:53,280
Like even I mean, the worst of them

313
00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:53,740
are the best.

314
00:08:54,060 --> 00:08:54,860
There's so many.

315
00:08:54,940 --> 00:08:57,100
It's such a congested space and they don't

316
00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:57,660
look different.

317
00:08:57,760 --> 00:08:58,700
So I think it's got to be something

318
00:08:58,700 --> 00:08:59,420
that looks different.

319
00:08:59,820 --> 00:09:02,400
And to me, maybe it's something it starts

320
00:09:02,400 --> 00:09:03,660
to approach audacity.

321
00:09:04,360 --> 00:09:06,860
Maybe he's doing because it's sort of audacity

322
00:09:06,860 --> 00:09:09,800
still continues to not really be a DAW.

323
00:09:10,180 --> 00:09:11,580
And I think the difference with the DAW

324
00:09:11,580 --> 00:09:13,420
if you really take the full argument is

325
00:09:13,420 --> 00:09:15,960
that will he put a mixer in it?

326
00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:17,540
Because if he puts a mixer in it,

327
00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:20,580
especially a real-time mixer, now it's gone

328
00:09:20,580 --> 00:09:21,320
full DAW.

329
00:09:21,660 --> 00:09:23,980
But audacity doesn't have a real-time mixer

330
00:09:23,980 --> 00:09:24,800
and it can multi-track.

331
00:09:25,140 --> 00:09:27,320
The other question to me is with Thomas.

332
00:09:27,540 --> 00:09:29,460
Now, Thomas is a solo player.

333
00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:30,500
That's his business.

334
00:09:32,020 --> 00:09:35,080
So why would you make something potentially really

335
00:09:35,080 --> 00:09:38,100
complicated that you have to manage and you

336
00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:38,900
have to service?

337
00:09:39,300 --> 00:09:40,540
Well, here's the thing.

338
00:09:40,640 --> 00:09:41,540
Why would you do that to yourself?

339
00:09:41,860 --> 00:09:42,880
To expand your market, maybe.

340
00:09:43,900 --> 00:09:45,320
He's selling a subscription now.

341
00:09:45,320 --> 00:09:47,500
It was always a one-and-done deal.

342
00:09:47,720 --> 00:09:49,080
It is now a subscription.

343
00:09:49,560 --> 00:09:51,800
So he is honestly, I mean, he's under

344
00:09:51,800 --> 00:09:55,880
pressure to add features because people are going

345
00:09:55,880 --> 00:09:57,280
to be like, well, I'm paying for this.

346
00:09:57,460 --> 00:09:57,780
Is multi-track the right feature?

347
00:09:58,020 --> 00:10:00,360
I mean, does the fact that you put

348
00:10:00,360 --> 00:10:01,700
out a poll and say, you tell me

349
00:10:01,700 --> 00:10:03,300
what you want, does that make it the

350
00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:03,840
right thing?

351
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:06,300
And see, he probably dug himself in a

352
00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:06,640
hole.

353
00:10:06,860 --> 00:10:07,540
Oh, I'm not agreeing.

354
00:10:07,560 --> 00:10:08,460
It's a good idea.

355
00:10:08,660 --> 00:10:09,260
No, no, no.

356
00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:11,940
And I'm wondering why.

357
00:10:11,940 --> 00:10:14,320
And the reason I kind of come up

358
00:10:14,320 --> 00:10:17,900
with for me is I've never used Twisted

359
00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:18,160
Wave.

360
00:10:18,380 --> 00:10:20,620
I've looked at it, obviously, so I understood

361
00:10:20,620 --> 00:10:22,500
to talk about it on this show, but

362
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,060
I've never used it as a user.

363
00:10:24,340 --> 00:10:26,500
But for me, the thing with Twisted Wave

364
00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:29,000
is that he's found that perfect little niche

365
00:10:29,000 --> 00:10:30,100
for it.

366
00:10:30,240 --> 00:10:33,000
You know, he's found that market that he

367
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:34,320
just needs to super-serve.

368
00:10:34,480 --> 00:10:36,200
And I don't know that putting multi-track

369
00:10:36,200 --> 00:10:38,160
on Twisted Wave is super-serving that audience.

370
00:10:38,160 --> 00:10:40,160
I go back to what is the exact

371
00:10:40,160 --> 00:10:40,840
use case.

372
00:10:41,880 --> 00:10:43,460
And if it's just like slapping a piece

373
00:10:43,460 --> 00:10:45,700
of music behind your stuff, there's a million

374
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:46,620
ways to do that.

375
00:10:47,240 --> 00:10:49,280
Well, the old Cool Edit, you know, before

376
00:10:49,280 --> 00:10:51,600
Cool Edit had multi-track, you could mix

377
00:10:51,600 --> 00:10:52,140
stuff in.

378
00:10:52,260 --> 00:10:53,560
You could put them over each other and

379
00:10:53,560 --> 00:10:55,600
you would put in the percentage that you

380
00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:57,260
wanted the new thing to mix in.

381
00:10:57,440 --> 00:10:58,500
Did you ever use Cool Edit?

382
00:10:58,740 --> 00:10:59,340
Did you ever use that?

383
00:10:59,340 --> 00:11:01,960
I never really used Cool Edit because I

384
00:11:01,960 --> 00:11:03,720
never really used a Windows machine.

385
00:11:03,980 --> 00:11:04,220
Yeah, okay.

386
00:11:04,580 --> 00:11:06,000
Well, see, you could sort of mix stuff.

387
00:11:06,380 --> 00:11:07,320
I don't know if you ever played with

388
00:11:07,320 --> 00:11:07,620
it, George.

389
00:11:07,620 --> 00:11:08,060
Yes.

390
00:11:08,480 --> 00:11:10,800
And I'm going off a very rough, drug

391
00:11:10,800 --> 00:11:11,540
-addled memory.

392
00:11:12,160 --> 00:11:14,620
But you could sort of blend stuff together.

393
00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,020
And maybe that might be better than trying

394
00:11:17,020 --> 00:11:18,680
to sort of sell a multi-track, you

395
00:11:18,680 --> 00:11:20,340
know, to sell a concept of multi-track.

396
00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:21,460
Andrew, what were you going to say?

397
00:11:21,620 --> 00:11:22,540
And then I wanted to tell you what

398
00:11:22,540 --> 00:11:24,200
the second most voted feature was.

399
00:11:24,340 --> 00:11:26,320
Okay, well, I was going to say that

400
00:11:26,320 --> 00:11:29,060
the subscription model, I did catch up with

401
00:11:29,060 --> 00:11:31,240
Thomas when I was in Paris.

402
00:11:31,480 --> 00:11:32,520
And we caught up for a couple of

403
00:11:32,520 --> 00:11:32,740
years.

404
00:11:32,740 --> 00:11:35,300
And he said to me, and I've mentioned

405
00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:38,180
this before, I'm sure, and he talked about

406
00:11:38,180 --> 00:11:39,320
doing a subscription model.

407
00:11:39,540 --> 00:11:40,680
And I said, look, based on the fact,

408
00:11:40,780 --> 00:11:41,460
it's just you.

409
00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:44,680
And if you're not making an income because

410
00:11:44,680 --> 00:11:46,960
people just buy a one-off payment and

411
00:11:46,960 --> 00:11:49,740
that's it, then you won't be around you

412
00:11:49,740 --> 00:11:50,440
because you're going to have to go and

413
00:11:50,440 --> 00:11:51,340
get a job because you're not going to

414
00:11:51,340 --> 00:11:51,820
have an income.

415
00:11:51,880 --> 00:11:53,140
So you have to go subscription.

416
00:11:54,360 --> 00:11:55,900
I'm probably going to get hated for that.

417
00:11:55,920 --> 00:11:57,640
No, we talked about this a year ago

418
00:11:57,640 --> 00:11:59,280
when he launched subscription.

419
00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:00,000
Yeah.

420
00:12:00,460 --> 00:12:02,340
And I think it was a sensible thing

421
00:12:02,340 --> 00:12:03,660
to do and I have no problem.

422
00:12:03,660 --> 00:12:04,260
I think so, too.

423
00:12:04,460 --> 00:12:05,540
I can't tell you how many of my

424
00:12:05,540 --> 00:12:08,840
clients who are griping about that when they

425
00:12:08,840 --> 00:12:10,820
see the little message pop up saying, you

426
00:12:10,820 --> 00:12:12,740
know, the next version is going to be

427
00:12:12,740 --> 00:12:13,380
subscription.

428
00:12:13,740 --> 00:12:14,540
They're like, I already own it.

429
00:12:14,620 --> 00:12:15,280
Why would I do that?

430
00:12:15,440 --> 00:12:17,080
I'm like, do you know how much effing

431
00:12:17,080 --> 00:12:19,580
money you have made with this $100 app

432
00:12:19,580 --> 00:12:21,380
for the last 12 years?

433
00:12:21,380 --> 00:12:21,480
Yeah.

434
00:12:21,780 --> 00:12:23,100
And then you just inspect updates.

435
00:12:23,360 --> 00:12:24,620
Like, didn't you sell it before where you

436
00:12:24,620 --> 00:12:25,700
didn't even have to buy an update?

437
00:12:26,620 --> 00:12:27,600
Oh, yeah, that's how it always was.

438
00:12:27,780 --> 00:12:27,940
Exactly.

439
00:12:27,940 --> 00:12:28,720
I've been running.

440
00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,520
I've had every update and I've run it

441
00:12:30,520 --> 00:12:32,460
on every Mac I've ever owned with a

442
00:12:32,460 --> 00:12:33,140
single license key.

443
00:12:33,140 --> 00:12:34,700
Like, where's his effort for just doing the

444
00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:35,460
updates alone?

445
00:12:35,940 --> 00:12:36,480
He's been very, very generous.

446
00:12:36,480 --> 00:12:38,240
And second of all, I mean, I'll be

447
00:12:38,240 --> 00:12:39,460
harsh maybe, but you want to know what

448
00:12:39,460 --> 00:12:40,360
the subscription's for?

449
00:12:41,220 --> 00:12:42,700
So I stick around for you.

450
00:12:42,920 --> 00:12:43,100
Exactly.

451
00:12:43,440 --> 00:12:44,440
That's exactly what it's for.

452
00:12:44,580 --> 00:12:46,060
Because I don't have to do anything.

453
00:12:46,300 --> 00:12:48,660
And when Apple changes it and it screws

454
00:12:48,660 --> 00:12:49,940
up for you and I'm here to fix

455
00:12:49,940 --> 00:12:52,540
it, that's what the subscription's for in a

456
00:12:52,540 --> 00:12:52,940
way.

457
00:12:52,940 --> 00:12:53,740
I don't want it to be the next

458
00:12:53,740 --> 00:12:56,920
bias peak, which there was definitely a small

459
00:12:56,920 --> 00:12:58,160
and very...

460
00:12:58,160 --> 00:13:00,640
There was a small and very, like, loyal

461
00:13:00,640 --> 00:13:02,700
user base of this one app called Bias

462
00:13:02,700 --> 00:13:02,900
Peak.

463
00:13:03,420 --> 00:13:05,620
I was never a fan particularly, but those

464
00:13:05,620 --> 00:13:07,280
that loved it, man, did they love it.

465
00:13:07,800 --> 00:13:09,180
And when that went away...

466
00:13:09,180 --> 00:13:09,480
Yeah.

467
00:13:09,820 --> 00:13:11,480
It had the CD and the PQ code

468
00:13:11,480 --> 00:13:12,240
editing.

469
00:13:12,960 --> 00:13:14,260
You know, that's a whole area that he

470
00:13:14,260 --> 00:13:16,000
could go into if he wanted to.

471
00:13:16,000 --> 00:13:18,800
Or, you know, it's like, why doesn't any

472
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:22,620
voiceover person use DSP Quattro?

473
00:13:23,980 --> 00:13:26,400
Because it's just not needed by a voiceover

474
00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:27,900
person and it's kind of a two-track

475
00:13:27,900 --> 00:13:29,760
editor and it's sort of a multi-track

476
00:13:29,760 --> 00:13:30,980
as so much as that you need a

477
00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:33,640
multi-track to lay up a CD and

478
00:13:33,640 --> 00:13:35,560
maybe have an overlapping thing like a Pink

479
00:13:35,560 --> 00:13:36,160
Floyd album.

480
00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:36,940
Right.

481
00:13:37,160 --> 00:13:38,200
But it doesn't speak.

482
00:13:38,380 --> 00:13:40,520
It's a two-track editor or whatever.

483
00:13:40,680 --> 00:13:41,480
It's a stereo audio.

484
00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:42,740
It's not a full DAW.

485
00:13:43,160 --> 00:13:44,580
It speaks to a specific audience.

486
00:13:44,580 --> 00:13:46,580
And he's got this audience.

487
00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:49,080
And maybe multi-track is the right feature,

488
00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:50,000
but I think it has to be done

489
00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:53,320
in a unique way because one of the

490
00:13:53,320 --> 00:13:57,400
overriding features that VO people tend to want

491
00:13:57,400 --> 00:13:58,960
is ultimate simplicity.

492
00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:01,200
And he definitely had that.

493
00:14:01,440 --> 00:14:01,540
Yeah.

494
00:14:01,700 --> 00:14:06,360
So the second most popular feature was non

495
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,320
-destructive editing.

496
00:14:08,740 --> 00:14:10,720
So he's going to have to bake those

497
00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:11,560
two in together.

498
00:14:11,560 --> 00:14:13,380
He's going to be obviously doing those two

499
00:14:13,380 --> 00:14:14,820
in one go.

500
00:14:14,820 --> 00:14:16,600
It gets closer and closer to DAW, doesn't

501
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:16,820
it?

502
00:14:17,080 --> 00:14:17,220
Right.

503
00:14:17,540 --> 00:14:19,800
The third one was at a history window,

504
00:14:19,800 --> 00:14:22,880
like Photoshop, you know, for going back.

505
00:14:23,180 --> 00:14:25,700
So that's like also now stepping into non

506
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:28,040
-destructive but not really non-destructive.

507
00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:29,500
I'll agree with that though.

508
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:31,960
I think that would be good if that's

509
00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:32,620
not already there.

510
00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:33,960
I think that would be a good inclusion.

511
00:14:34,220 --> 00:14:36,220
So you're seeing how those top three things

512
00:14:36,220 --> 00:14:38,400
are like he can he's going to I'm

513
00:14:38,400 --> 00:14:39,840
sure he's going to take those top three

514
00:14:39,840 --> 00:14:41,560
and he's going to make that part of

515
00:14:41,560 --> 00:14:41,660
it.

516
00:14:41,880 --> 00:14:43,820
He's going to do like another survey about

517
00:14:43,820 --> 00:14:47,960
like what when you say multi-track, let's

518
00:14:47,960 --> 00:14:48,600
get specific.

519
00:14:48,760 --> 00:14:50,100
What do you want in a multi-track?

520
00:14:50,300 --> 00:14:51,260
What's your workflow?

521
00:14:51,880 --> 00:14:53,980
What's your use case?

522
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,600
And try to be very because his whole

523
00:14:57,600 --> 00:14:59,240
thing has been being so specific.

524
00:14:59,720 --> 00:15:01,540
So he can do it again by being

525
00:15:01,540 --> 00:15:04,400
very specific about what a multi-track editor

526
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,220
means to a voiceover person or someone who's

527
00:15:07,220 --> 00:15:09,720
looking for something truly simple.

528
00:15:10,120 --> 00:15:10,840
Well, there you go.

529
00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:12,700
That's going to blow a can of worms

530
00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,740
open because when you get that answer back,

531
00:15:15,820 --> 00:15:17,620
if you ask those people, what do you

532
00:15:17,620 --> 00:15:18,580
want a multi-track for?

533
00:15:18,740 --> 00:15:19,900
How are you going to use it?

534
00:15:21,620 --> 00:15:23,620
Then this is the issue because the answers

535
00:15:23,620 --> 00:15:25,420
that come back will be so bizarre.

536
00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:26,580
It will make no sense.

537
00:15:26,840 --> 00:15:27,780
He will look at this thing and go,

538
00:15:27,940 --> 00:15:28,880
why am I building a multi-track?

539
00:15:29,020 --> 00:15:31,280
Because what I'm reading, the responses I'm getting

540
00:15:31,280 --> 00:15:33,940
back from people, I don't need a multi

541
00:15:33,940 --> 00:15:34,300
-track.

542
00:15:34,360 --> 00:15:35,940
Why are they asking me for this thing?

543
00:15:36,140 --> 00:15:39,560
They want to layer things maybe and it's

544
00:15:39,560 --> 00:15:40,560
maybe not specifically.

545
00:15:41,260 --> 00:15:42,760
Certainly, I would say one thing is like

546
00:15:42,760 --> 00:15:44,080
no one's going to come back or maybe

547
00:15:44,080 --> 00:15:45,520
people will come back saying I need to

548
00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:50,340
record, like who asked for the multi, the

549
00:15:50,340 --> 00:15:51,140
WAV file?

550
00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,260
What's the use case there for the multi

551
00:15:53,260 --> 00:15:56,760
-channel, like more than stereo for just the

552
00:15:56,760 --> 00:15:57,220
WAV file?

553
00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:58,120
What's the use case?

554
00:15:58,120 --> 00:15:59,940
He's going to need to ask more questions

555
00:15:59,940 --> 00:16:03,960
of what people really need it for, what

556
00:16:03,960 --> 00:16:05,280
the use case is, how they're going to

557
00:16:05,280 --> 00:16:06,100
use it exactly.

558
00:16:06,960 --> 00:16:08,640
I had a few in here that you

559
00:16:08,640 --> 00:16:10,680
don't know which are mine, but you have

560
00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:11,280
to trust me.

561
00:16:11,880 --> 00:16:18,160
I had interpolate auto or auto heal, select

562
00:16:18,160 --> 00:16:20,520
a clip or pencil.

563
00:16:21,540 --> 00:16:22,800
He's down to 15 yields.

564
00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:24,040
Do you know what I would have done?

565
00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:26,300
I would have done translate this thing to

566
00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:27,940
text and let me at it.

567
00:16:27,940 --> 00:16:29,420
Is number 15 yours though, George?

568
00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:31,700
Is that yours, the ability to add normalize

569
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:32,520
to an effects stack?

570
00:16:33,160 --> 00:16:34,180
Yeah, of course, that's me.

571
00:16:34,860 --> 00:16:38,640
I was wondering, so you can't do that

572
00:16:38,640 --> 00:16:38,980
already?

573
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:40,960
No, you can't because a stack is a

574
00:16:40,960 --> 00:16:43,460
real-time plug-in rack so you can

575
00:16:43,460 --> 00:16:45,160
listen to and preview it real-time.

576
00:16:46,120 --> 00:16:48,560
If you had normalize, it would break that

577
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:49,340
whole method.

578
00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:51,340
You'd have to come up with a different

579
00:16:51,340 --> 00:16:51,940
methodology.

580
00:16:52,400 --> 00:16:54,460
Normalize is just a post-processing routine.

581
00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:56,480
We'd have to process it in the background

582
00:16:56,480 --> 00:16:59,980
and not actually print it, I guess, but

583
00:16:59,980 --> 00:17:01,120
still be able to play it in the

584
00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:01,460
background.

585
00:17:01,760 --> 00:17:04,900
What would be cooler is to normalize my

586
00:17:04,900 --> 00:17:07,160
gain stage so that you put a whole

587
00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:08,599
effects chain together.

588
00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:10,440
It runs it and it goes, oh my

589
00:17:10,440 --> 00:17:12,540
gosh, you've just blown away your headroom in

590
00:17:12,540 --> 00:17:13,760
the first plug-in.

591
00:17:14,040 --> 00:17:15,640
Lower the gain of that first plug-in

592
00:17:15,640 --> 00:17:17,780
and make sure that each plug-in is

593
00:17:17,780 --> 00:17:21,079
not crashing into the other, and therefore you're

594
00:17:21,079 --> 00:17:23,740
not relying on 32-bit, just do all

595
00:17:23,740 --> 00:17:25,060
the math for me because I just want

596
00:17:25,060 --> 00:17:25,920
to think about it.

597
00:17:25,940 --> 00:17:26,920
I'm glad you said that.

598
00:17:27,420 --> 00:17:29,880
Months ago, I said I would really like

599
00:17:29,880 --> 00:17:35,980
the ability to preset a RMS normalize setting

600
00:17:35,980 --> 00:17:41,000
that when you hit stop recording, it renormalizes

601
00:17:41,000 --> 00:17:44,620
the track, that clip, to a predetermined RMS.

602
00:17:44,900 --> 00:17:46,320
Does he have RMS normalize already?

603
00:17:47,020 --> 00:17:47,160
Yeah.

604
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:50,340
What I have found that when I'm mastering,

605
00:17:50,340 --> 00:17:53,120
say I'm doing an audiobook production, my first

606
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:55,160
step is to normalize every track to the

607
00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:57,900
same minus 30 RMS, minus 30 RMS, boom.

608
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,240
That works beautifully because now every single file,

609
00:18:03,440 --> 00:18:05,520
you know the RMS, so when you do

610
00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,380
your processing chain with your compression limiting everything,

611
00:18:08,900 --> 00:18:10,280
you only have to set it up one

612
00:18:10,280 --> 00:18:14,420
time because now everything comes out the same.

613
00:18:15,140 --> 00:18:18,940
For that matter, why not roughs normalize?

614
00:18:19,480 --> 00:18:20,160
Either one.

615
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:21,440
I mean, I don't care whether you use

616
00:18:21,440 --> 00:18:24,760
RMS or roughs, but just to have it

617
00:18:24,760 --> 00:18:28,100
auto set that so that, you know, and

618
00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:29,760
then someone's like, well, what if I record

619
00:18:29,760 --> 00:18:31,220
room tone and now I have my room

620
00:18:31,220 --> 00:18:32,460
tone at minus 30 roughs?

621
00:18:32,460 --> 00:18:33,900
I'm like, okay, well, there are some scenarios

622
00:18:33,900 --> 00:18:36,640
where you don't want this to happen, and

623
00:18:36,640 --> 00:18:37,560
so that would be tricky.

624
00:18:37,740 --> 00:18:39,220
But however you figure it out, you could,

625
00:18:39,640 --> 00:18:41,040
whatever it is, there's a way to do

626
00:18:41,040 --> 00:18:41,140
it.

627
00:18:41,240 --> 00:18:42,500
So that was one of my ideas I

628
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:43,360
was hoping we would do.

629
00:18:43,460 --> 00:18:44,080
That didn't happen.

630
00:18:44,940 --> 00:18:46,660
There was 11 people voted for punch and

631
00:18:46,660 --> 00:18:48,060
roll, which has been in the app for

632
00:18:48,060 --> 00:18:49,240
two years or three years.

633
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:52,700
The other one that jumps out to me

634
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:56,620
is auto detect silences, because I mean, even

635
00:18:56,620 --> 00:18:58,200
for me, right, I mean, I use strip

636
00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:00,260
silence on this podcast in Pro Tools.

637
00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:01,800
I use it all the time.

638
00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:02,780
That's already there, too.

639
00:19:02,940 --> 00:19:05,100
You know, this is what shows when you

640
00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:07,040
have people vote on features, they're not getting

641
00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:08,320
that deep into it.

642
00:19:08,440 --> 00:19:09,320
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

643
00:19:09,460 --> 00:19:09,680
Right.

644
00:19:10,080 --> 00:19:12,540
It also shows and exposes the lack of

645
00:19:12,540 --> 00:19:15,560
knowledge about the app people already own.

646
00:19:15,560 --> 00:19:17,580
They don't know it already has punch and

647
00:19:17,580 --> 00:19:17,720
roll.

648
00:19:17,760 --> 00:19:19,260
They don't know it already has strip silence.

649
00:19:19,380 --> 00:19:20,020
They don't know.

650
00:19:20,180 --> 00:19:21,360
They just don't know.

651
00:19:21,360 --> 00:19:23,460
So strip silence, can you adjust the parameters?

652
00:19:23,760 --> 00:19:25,160
Like on Pro Tools, you can adjust the

653
00:19:25,160 --> 00:19:27,000
threshold, you can adjust the start and end

654
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:27,900
times and stuff like that.

655
00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:29,600
Yeah, actually, there's more parameters than Pro Tools.

656
00:19:30,140 --> 00:19:30,660
Oh, really?

657
00:19:30,840 --> 00:19:32,240
Yeah, you can get very granular.

658
00:19:34,360 --> 00:19:37,880
So, yeah, there's a lot of reasons to

659
00:19:37,880 --> 00:19:40,440
use TwistWave as a Pro Tools producer engineer,

660
00:19:40,460 --> 00:19:43,900
because it has great utility, the batch processing.

661
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:45,840
You know, there's a lot of things it

662
00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,780
does really elegantly that if I was a

663
00:19:48,780 --> 00:19:50,540
Pro Tools geek, I might know how to

664
00:19:50,540 --> 00:19:52,760
do it in Pro Tools, but there are

665
00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:55,020
certain things that are just so much easier

666
00:19:55,020 --> 00:19:55,520
and faster.

667
00:19:55,760 --> 00:19:57,960
There are things that I'll export from Pro

668
00:19:57,960 --> 00:20:00,980
Tools into Audition, because Audition does it better.

669
00:20:01,280 --> 00:20:01,840
Yeah, absolutely.

670
00:20:02,520 --> 00:20:02,980
Yeah, yeah.

671
00:20:03,420 --> 00:20:06,140
Interestingly, it's one thing I've noticed that TwistWave,

672
00:20:06,380 --> 00:20:08,400
well, it may have it based on this

673
00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,160
list, but when I was using WaveLab, if

674
00:20:11,160 --> 00:20:14,540
you're doing something like an e-learning session

675
00:20:14,940 --> 00:20:18,380
where you've got like a gazillion files, but

676
00:20:18,380 --> 00:20:19,740
they have the same name with a different

677
00:20:19,740 --> 00:20:22,660
number at the end, the thing about with

678
00:20:22,660 --> 00:20:24,260
WaveLab, if it was sitting on the desktop,

679
00:20:25,300 --> 00:20:26,760
I could go in there to name a

680
00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:28,560
file and that would pop up and I

681
00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,120
could just click on it, take off the

682
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:32,180
number, put number two or 15 or whatever

683
00:20:32,180 --> 00:20:33,720
on the end and save.

684
00:20:34,100 --> 00:20:35,400
So, I didn't have to keep typing in

685
00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,440
the title of that file, which I don't

686
00:20:38,440 --> 00:20:39,960
know whether it does, but I certainly haven't

687
00:20:39,960 --> 00:20:42,220
found it with TwistWave, and that for that

688
00:20:42,220 --> 00:20:43,680
kind of work is a bit of a

689
00:20:43,680 --> 00:20:43,860
pain there.

690
00:20:43,860 --> 00:20:45,640
I mean, with batch processing, you can auto

691
00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,680
increment that number, you know, so you can

692
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,980
have it automatically increment the number, you know,

693
00:20:51,060 --> 00:20:52,000
increase that stuff.

694
00:20:52,320 --> 00:20:53,120
Does it have a feature where you can

695
00:20:53,120 --> 00:20:55,240
just dump markers and then output separate audio

696
00:20:55,240 --> 00:20:56,820
files based on the place without markers?

697
00:20:57,060 --> 00:20:59,680
It'll split by marker and then output export

698
00:20:59,680 --> 00:21:02,720
files of your determined whatever format you want.

699
00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:04,920
So, it has a lot of really useful

700
00:21:04,920 --> 00:21:06,900
things for automating, banging out a lot.

701
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:09,160
If you do e-learning, man, I'm telling

702
00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:09,920
you, use TwistWave.

703
00:21:10,580 --> 00:21:13,340
It's just so much easier to bang out

704
00:21:13,340 --> 00:21:16,920
30, 40, 100, 200, 500 files, you know,

705
00:21:16,960 --> 00:21:19,060
and you can set a predetermined amount of

706
00:21:19,060 --> 00:21:20,840
padding, you know, for the select, you know,

707
00:21:20,860 --> 00:21:23,380
when you use the detect silence function.

708
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,000
Because what detect silence does is it, it'll

709
00:21:26,000 --> 00:21:27,880
either, you can make it a positive or

710
00:21:27,880 --> 00:21:29,040
a negative selection, right?

711
00:21:29,340 --> 00:21:32,200
You can either select the silence or flip

712
00:21:32,200 --> 00:21:33,580
it and select everything else.

713
00:21:33,600 --> 00:21:34,000
Oh, that's very cool.

714
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,120
And then you can set the padding and

715
00:21:36,120 --> 00:21:37,500
then say, okay, now that we've set the

716
00:21:37,500 --> 00:21:40,960
padding for these selections, just now make markers

717
00:21:40,960 --> 00:21:43,060
and then export all that stuff out with

718
00:21:43,060 --> 00:21:44,700
the right amount of padding for every file

719
00:21:44,700 --> 00:21:45,040
and stuff.

720
00:21:45,460 --> 00:21:47,800
Can you filter it, like, apply like a

721
00:21:47,800 --> 00:21:49,300
side chain so that you're not looking for,

722
00:21:49,300 --> 00:21:51,500
like, thumps and bumps, but you're just looking

723
00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:54,760
for actual audio and voice audio and that

724
00:21:54,760 --> 00:21:55,600
silence detection?

725
00:21:56,600 --> 00:21:58,380
Like, how about, like, BS detection?

726
00:22:00,920 --> 00:22:02,720
Yeah, well, I mean, once AI gets wrapped

727
00:22:02,720 --> 00:22:05,100
in everything on the planet, there'll be so

728
00:22:05,100 --> 00:22:06,140
much more of that going on.

729
00:22:06,400 --> 00:22:06,880
That's what I was saying.

730
00:22:07,000 --> 00:22:08,020
I mean, just convert that.

731
00:22:08,620 --> 00:22:10,420
If most everything that people are doing in

732
00:22:10,420 --> 00:22:13,480
Twisted Wave is voice-oriented, just go there.

733
00:22:13,800 --> 00:22:14,260
Well, here's another thing.

734
00:22:14,380 --> 00:22:15,360
So you're looking at these features.

735
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:16,660
You guys are seeing them right now.

736
00:22:17,180 --> 00:22:20,040
You don't see the letter AI anywhere in

737
00:22:20,040 --> 00:22:20,460
that list.

738
00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:21,260
It's okay.

739
00:22:21,960 --> 00:22:23,320
Like, AI is not going to kill you

740
00:22:23,320 --> 00:22:24,340
if it's used exactly.

741
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:26,260
But what I'm saying is, it also showed

742
00:22:26,260 --> 00:22:27,860
to me anyway, it shows that the user

743
00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:31,280
is very unaware of what AI capabilities are.

744
00:22:31,840 --> 00:22:33,220
They don't even ask for it.

745
00:22:33,220 --> 00:22:35,300
Like, it's not even on the radar, right?

746
00:22:35,880 --> 00:22:37,200
I, on the other hand, have been using

747
00:22:37,200 --> 00:22:40,080
Descript for, like, the last nine months and

748
00:22:40,080 --> 00:22:42,280
watching the versions roll out faster than you

749
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:43,880
can keep track of and all the new

750
00:22:43,880 --> 00:22:44,400
AI stuff.

751
00:22:45,020 --> 00:22:47,760
And I'm like, you know, it's evolving rapidly,

752
00:22:47,860 --> 00:22:48,300
right?

753
00:22:48,700 --> 00:22:51,720
So, I have this whole parallel world where

754
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:53,400
I'm using this Descript thing to do all

755
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,340
this post, and it's just, it's insane, right?

756
00:22:56,520 --> 00:22:57,800
What I can do with it.

757
00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,440
I think that number 14 gain envelope, that's

758
00:23:00,440 --> 00:23:01,460
probably going to have to be part of

759
00:23:01,460 --> 00:23:03,600
the non-destructive multi-track mode, right?

760
00:23:03,880 --> 00:23:05,640
That's the thing is, once you build a

761
00:23:05,640 --> 00:23:07,640
multi-track, there's a certain expectation.

762
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:09,500
You have a mixer all of a sudden.

763
00:23:09,540 --> 00:23:11,780
If you make a basic multi-track, then

764
00:23:11,780 --> 00:23:13,820
the guys that are thinking of getting it

765
00:23:13,820 --> 00:23:16,480
for multi-track are going to go, well,

766
00:23:17,140 --> 00:23:19,320
it can't do this, it can't do this,

767
00:23:19,380 --> 00:23:20,500
it can't do this, and then they're going

768
00:23:20,500 --> 00:23:22,240
to be like, where's all the multi-track

769
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:23,200
functions and features?

770
00:23:23,380 --> 00:23:24,100
Where's the toolbar?

771
00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:25,720
Where's the smart tool?

772
00:23:25,920 --> 00:23:27,920
Where's the slip and shuffle?

773
00:23:29,280 --> 00:23:31,140
Where's my time code chase?

774
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,160
It is a rabble extraordinaire, right?

775
00:23:34,760 --> 00:23:37,920
Thomas, whatever you do, buddy, we feel for

776
00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:38,180
you.

777
00:23:39,380 --> 00:23:41,440
Less is more, less is more.

778
00:23:42,060 --> 00:23:45,260
Do you know my favorite feature of Twisted

779
00:23:45,260 --> 00:23:46,580
Wave at the moment, and that's because I'm

780
00:23:46,580 --> 00:23:49,060
using the new iPhone with the USB-C?

781
00:23:49,080 --> 00:23:50,400
It's the upload thing.

782
00:23:50,660 --> 00:23:53,900
It's the upload thing, their little server, where

783
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:55,620
you just, you know, you...

784
00:23:55,620 --> 00:23:57,620
That alone is worth the subscription.

785
00:23:58,160 --> 00:24:00,620
I reckon you're super-served, the audience you've

786
00:24:00,620 --> 00:24:01,040
already got.

787
00:24:01,140 --> 00:24:03,920
Don't worry about multi-track, Thomas, seriously.

788
00:24:04,280 --> 00:24:04,700
Yeah, I know.

789
00:24:05,100 --> 00:24:06,840
That's our vote, but, you know...

790
00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:09,360
If you do multi-track, have a really

791
00:24:09,360 --> 00:24:12,220
unique take on it, because just like another

792
00:24:12,220 --> 00:24:15,140
emulated compressor, probably what the world does not

793
00:24:15,140 --> 00:24:16,180
need is another DAW.

794
00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:17,800
Well, here you go.

795
00:24:17,900 --> 00:24:20,040
There's a challenge for us for, maybe this

796
00:24:20,040 --> 00:24:22,580
could be it, the Pro Audio Suite multi

797
00:24:22,580 --> 00:24:23,780
-track Twisted Wave.

798
00:24:24,580 --> 00:24:26,140
Or how about just the Pro Audio Suite,

799
00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:28,160
VO...

800
00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:29,720
I mean, actually, we shouldn't do it.

801
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:30,080
DAW.

802
00:24:30,340 --> 00:24:30,560
The DAW.

803
00:24:31,220 --> 00:24:31,400
No.

804
00:24:31,700 --> 00:24:33,480
That would go quite against Thomas.

805
00:24:33,840 --> 00:24:34,500
We don't want to do that.

806
00:24:34,520 --> 00:24:34,880
Are you insane?

807
00:24:35,460 --> 00:24:37,520
I think we're just twisted enough, guys.

808
00:24:38,560 --> 00:24:39,080
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

809
00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:39,900
How about we wave?

810
00:24:39,900 --> 00:24:40,360
Time to wave.

811
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:40,860
Goodbye.

812
00:24:41,340 --> 00:24:42,700
Goodbye, yes.

813
00:24:44,420 --> 00:24:45,400
Well, that was fun.

814
00:24:45,540 --> 00:24:45,880
Is it over?

815
00:24:47,420 --> 00:24:48,660
The Pro Audio Suite.

816
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,800
We thanks to drivers.

817
00:24:50,140 --> 00:24:53,740
And Austrian Audio, recorded using Sauce Connect, edited

818
00:24:53,740 --> 00:24:54,980
by Andrew Peters.

819
00:24:54,980 --> 00:24:57,260
And mixed by Voodoo Radio Imaging.

820
00:24:59,260 --> 00:25:01,580
Don't forget to subscribe to the show and

821
00:25:01,580 --> 00:25:03,800
join in the conversation on our Facebook group.

822
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:05,940
To leave a comment, suggest a topic, or

823
00:25:05,940 --> 00:25:07,840
just say g'day, drop us a note at

824
00:25:07,840 --> 00:25:08,400
our website.