Noise Floor Madness: What the Numbers Actually Mean

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Y'all ready?

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Be history. Get started.

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Welcome.

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Hi. Hi. Hi.

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Hello, everyone, to the pro audio suite.

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These guys are professional and motivated.

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Please take the video.

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Stars George Wisdom, founder of Source
Element Robert Marshall, international

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audio engineer Darren Robin
Roberts, and global voice Andrew Peters.

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Thanks to tribal Austrian audio,
maging passionate elements

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George the tech wisdom and Rob and APIs
international demos.

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To find out more about us.

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Check the Proteas
sweetcorn line up. Ready?

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Here we go.

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I'm here with me
and welcome to another pro audio suite.

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Thanks to tribus.

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Don't forget the code.

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Trip up to 100 to get $200

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off your plosive again and Austrian audio.

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I have to say, I just did it again.

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Those plosives, the hunt,
the hot property, the place of zero.

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Dear, oh dear, oh, dear.

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Very noisy.

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And speaking of noise, that's what
we're going to talk about today is noise.

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Basically new studio.

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And it's something that, I get
we talk about the stadium noise.

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I have no noise that drives on that noise,
like rotten and things, but yeah,

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not random impacts or plosives
or dull noise in your system.

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Noise floor noise.

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Noise floors,
I think is the word for this.

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Yeah, indeed.

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Really annoying noise. Yes.

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So. So when somebody talks
about their noise floor,

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they always throw a number out.

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I see in every Facebook group

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my noise, myself noise
or my my room tone or my sound.

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The where I see a lot,
my sound -eight inches.

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So yeah, yeah, yeah.

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By my sound floor
I see that one all the time is -74.

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Right.

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And they'll just that's the number period.

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Right.

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First of all,

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what does it mean when so many mentioned
the sound floor or noise floor

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or whatever terminology they mean.

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What does it mean.

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Well I don't know.

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See this is the thing
because if you're talking about noise off

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your microphone, isn't it going to depend
on how much gain you've got on the mic

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and all that sort of stuff?

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I mean, how what a noise floor of minus
whatever means jack sheet,

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depending on how much it's all relative,
it's all relative

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to the performance volume
that you're putting into it.

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So the signal or yeah, the signal to noise
ratio is the thing.

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Right.

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So if you're recording a whisper
and you're always recording stuff

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that's whispering your noise, floor
is way more critical than if you are doing

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video games and always yelling, yeah,
because your preamp can be turned down.

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And now the ratio between
what you are interested

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in, the yelling, the whispering,
or in the case

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yelling is a lot louder than the noise
that's inherent in your booth.

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And so now you want the biggest difference

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between the signal you want
and the signal you don't want.

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And so it's so it's it is a ratio really.

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But it's not expressed as a ratio
is it George.

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It is expressed in decibels
or a negative number.

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And and is it Rmse.

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Is it a lot smaller.

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Is it a peak. It what is the number
and what is its weighting.

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And there's so many other ways to do
we measure that.

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And does
your software know the difference.

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And does the person that's asking you
the number know what any of this stuff

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means. Exactly.

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And this is a way

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that microphone companies use to hide
the weenie can confuse people.

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Microphone work a lot

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higher spec than it might be,
especially when it comes to the weighting.

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The weightings are can be very confusing.

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Yeah, you might see a weighting or see
weighting.

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Those are the two.

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Most common is that there is no B
weighting.

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It's always A and C whatever.

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Is it
C that emulates the human hearing curve.

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Like the sensitivity
to low versus AI frequencies.

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So it's C weighting is I always get this
I think

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I think they're both based on the Fletcher
Munson curve with Fletcher Munson.

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Yeah.

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But Fletcher,
neither of us are saying that correctly.

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Is that what you get
when you've had a couple accounts?

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The Fletcher Munchen a
a weighting mimics the human hearing

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and C weighting is less selective.

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C is more is more,
let's just say more broad

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and probably more sensitive
to low frequency.

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Right.

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So that's the less forgiving
and and high frequency too,

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because the Fletcher Munson curve
is it's your smiley face.

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Right.

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So it's your sad face, right.

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That you see weighting is less forgiving.

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It's it.

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So what happens is
it's in everybody's software.

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They they hit record.

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They get the room tone right.
And they hit stop.

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And then they analyze it
somehow, like because somebody asked them,

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what's the self?

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What is the noise floor of your studio?

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That's that's what everybody is asked
you know, as an actor and voice actor,

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what is the noise for pure studio noise
for my studio when my preamp turned off

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is, you know, exactly what does it mean,
where what noise are we measuring?

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We've got so many sources of noise.

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We have this the noise that emanates
from the microphone, from the preamp,

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maybe somewhere else down the signal
chain, some plug in.

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You have some plugins create
a plug in that you might have for waves.

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Waves.
You got to turn it off. That's right.

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Literally be careful.

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Everyone out there waves

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literally has like 60 cycle noise
because somehow that's vintage compressor.

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You can dial in noise if you want to.

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Yeah, absolutely. An age
delay. Same thing.

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Yeah okay.

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Here's a question there.

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So if I'm if I'm recording
or AP by the way and and I can

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I mean I know exactly and I come in
I've actually captured 4824

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and I'm peaking at around about -18.

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Okay.

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Which is that's pretty low. Pretty low.

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So pretty low.

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If I capture that level
and I send that off,

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what is going to happen
when they start compressing.

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They're going to turn it up.

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So so you by peaking at -18 you have not
helped your signal to noise ratio

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because you have 18dB

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of space between those two that you've not
used. Yep.

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Okay. Right.

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But does you need to use all 18. No.

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Because then you risk hitting the wall.

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So but you want to be more at like minus
six maybe at least minus ten minus three.

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You start to sweat, you know,

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where's the sweet spot?

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I always try to get people to come in
somewhere between -12 and -6.

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I think that's the yellow range
on most matters.

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And I always say, if you're in the yellow,
let it mellow.

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All right. That's right. Yeah. I

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if you're

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always in the green, it's a little lean.

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Because again, that's, that's my,
that's my little monitor.

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So, so yeah.

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You can turn your preamp up
and assuming that, you know, like that's

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going to pull the noise from
the preamp will be less of an issue then,

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but then that will pull up
all the background noise with it.

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Because if you think about it, the noise,
the volume

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of your voice relative to
the noise of the room is a constant.

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Yeah, you're never going to change that.

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And if your preamp was perfect,
then recording at -18

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wouldn't make a difference
because it would all raise up in ratio.

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But by having your preamp
at the right level,

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you're at least getting the most out
of your signal to noise

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ratio of the preamp and the microphone
itself.

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You're optimizing
your signal path or signal chain.

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You're getting the best resolution
that your preamp can provide.

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You're getting the best sensitivity
your microphone can provide.

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So those things are the D converter.

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Yeah.

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So those are all essentially taken
out of the equation.

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If you're if your gear
is of decent quality,

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the sound you hear in that room tone
when you hit play and you listen

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99% of the time, probably not the mic

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probably not the preamp, it's
probably the environment, right?

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Yeah. But what sort of mikes
are we talking about that make noise?

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I mean, tube
mics obviously will create noise.

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Yeah. Dynamic mics. Here.

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Let me, let me give you guys
a really good example.

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Wait a minute.

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Dynamic Mike does a dynamic
Mike make noise?

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I don't know that it makes noise.

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It just makes it makes the preamp work
harder. Yes.

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Yeah, but I think I have
a good mic example here. And

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sorry Austrian audio.

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We're going to, we're going to I'm
not on an Austrian audio mic right now.

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So what's it doing here if we're trying to
demonstrate bad, bad stuff.

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Not good.

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I was working quick and I didn't
I didn't, like, give it up.

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So basically, here's a kind of a battery
powered condenser mic.

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So this is now the boom on my headset.

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Too much gain, by the way.

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21 seconds. Awesome. Forever.

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Yeah, yeah. That's right. Exactly.

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But when I, when I come back on this,
you're going to hear the,

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the noise floor of just, All right, now,
do you hear the difference in this one

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at all? Yeah, a whole lot less level.

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Level? Yeah, a lot less level. Right.

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Let's say in theory we do because we're
going to hear the raw audio in the post.

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But right now we're hearing the,
the you're hearing, which is like noise.

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Right.

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And so because the levels less in order
to bring it up than I have to hit,

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you know, bring my preamp up
and then up goes all that noise.

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Yeah. Right.

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Right.

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And, and even the electronic noise
in this case.

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So for a voice over a microphone of,
of, of a higher sensitivity

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or maybe the highest possible sensitivity
theoretically

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is the best microphone
for a voice over the road.

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00:09:03,668 --> 00:09:04,460
Ntg five.

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00:09:04,460 --> 00:09:06,254
This is a very modern, very new mic.

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00:09:06,254 --> 00:09:08,172
It's only been around for a few years.

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00:09:08,172 --> 00:09:10,216
First thing I noticed with that
Mike is it's high.

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00:09:10,216 --> 00:09:12,718
The highest output Mike had ever used.

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It was like shockingly hot.

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That would be good.

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00:09:16,305 --> 00:09:20,768
That means that you could plug that
into any old cheap audio interface

211
00:09:20,768 --> 00:09:26,566
which only has like a Scarlett
two i2 Gen two that has 48 DB of gain.

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00:09:27,024 --> 00:09:29,485
I still think you're right
and wrong, right?

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00:09:29,485 --> 00:09:33,030
I think you're right and wrong
because there's still the concept of self

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noise on the microphone.

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00:09:34,740 --> 00:09:37,868
So the microphone could have a lot
of output, but still a lot of self noise.

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There's one minus.

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If you had a low output mic
with a really clean preamp,

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the Ntg five is pretty quiet
though I was using it last week.

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I had to work up at my parents place
and I took it with me.

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Yeah, it's pretty quiet.

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Yeah. So low self noise, high output.

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You got a really great Mike.

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There's one microphone
that a lot of people use and I like it too

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that it stands in for 416 all the time.

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The 41 six.

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00:10:01,392 --> 00:10:04,103
And this is the 87 five. Yeah.

227
00:10:04,103 --> 00:10:07,773
The Audio
Technica 875 are it's a really bargain mic

228
00:10:07,773 --> 00:10:11,193
and it sounds really nice,
but that is its biggest Achilles heel.

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It is.

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It is a noisy.

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00:10:12,820 --> 00:10:14,864
Yeah.
We tested it a couple of weeks ago. Right.

232
00:10:14,864 --> 00:10:15,281
Yeah. Yeah.

233
00:10:15,281 --> 00:10:16,032
Is that the one we used?

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00:10:16,032 --> 00:10:18,534
Yeah. Noise is noticeable. Yeah.

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00:10:18,534 --> 00:10:21,495
And and even switching
between this Audio-Technica

236
00:10:21,495 --> 00:10:25,374
and this boom mic I can hear the noise
difference is switching between these two.

237
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Because even though this boom mic
sounds like calling all cars,

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I can hear the hiss difference.

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It's clean. It's.

240
00:10:31,047 --> 00:10:31,339
Yeah.

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The mic you're wearing on your headset
looks like just a standard headset.

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00:10:34,508 --> 00:10:38,137
Nobody knows that
that's actually a $1,500 microphone.

243
00:10:38,596 --> 00:10:40,431
Yeah. Underneath that foam ball.

244
00:10:40,431 --> 00:10:40,723
That's it's

245
00:10:40,723 --> 00:10:44,894
just that this thing is a $1,500 mic
and it it is definitely very clean.

246
00:10:44,894 --> 00:10:49,607
It just has a horrible EQ curve meant
to make it over the top of a race car.

247
00:10:49,732 --> 00:10:50,650
Right.

248
00:10:50,650 --> 00:10:53,903
It's for, you know, reporters on the track
reporting.

249
00:10:53,944 --> 00:10:55,821
Yeah. Covering. Exactly.

250
00:10:55,821 --> 00:10:59,742
So what can we recommend
as best practice, then, for that voice

251
00:10:59,742 --> 00:11:03,621
actor
who's being asked to tell the report back

252
00:11:04,205 --> 00:11:09,043
what my studio's actual noises
or the noise level of my studio?

253
00:11:09,043 --> 00:11:11,754
I mean, I said,
you answer a question with a question.

254
00:11:11,754 --> 00:11:14,674
I would say that to just be like,
what rating would you like?

255
00:11:14,674 --> 00:11:18,302
Would you like the noise
for, expressed in peak or Rmse,

256
00:11:18,302 --> 00:11:20,221
which is something
that we should just talk about right away?

257
00:11:20,221 --> 00:11:22,056
Okay. Let's talk about the difference
between those two.

258
00:11:22,056 --> 00:11:23,599
And they're quite can be quite diff.

259
00:11:23,599 --> 00:11:27,937
So basically it's the difference between
the instant level and the loudest content.

260
00:11:27,937 --> 00:11:29,313
Yeah that's right. Yeah.

261
00:11:29,313 --> 00:11:32,316
Or the average level Rmse is average.

262
00:11:32,692 --> 00:11:35,444
And peak is instantly
what's happening right now.

263
00:11:35,444 --> 00:11:37,446
So you could have a right.

264
00:11:37,446 --> 00:11:41,826
So you could have a high noise
or your noise floor expressed in the peak

265
00:11:41,826 --> 00:11:45,037
level would theoretically be higher
or worse,

266
00:11:45,663 --> 00:11:48,124
a worse set, a worse number

267
00:11:48,124 --> 00:11:52,128
then the Rmse or the average,
because you're going to have an average.

268
00:11:52,128 --> 00:11:52,628
Okay.

269
00:11:52,628 --> 00:11:55,214
Here's another question
then based on Twisted Wave,

270
00:11:55,214 --> 00:11:57,591
I'm looking at twisted wave on my screen
as we speak.

271
00:11:57,591 --> 00:12:02,138
And on the right hand side there is it
says the level meter

272
00:12:02,596 --> 00:12:04,223
and it says Rmse at the bottom.

273
00:12:04,223 --> 00:12:09,854
So is that meter on twisted
wave an Rmse or a peak?

274
00:12:10,271 --> 00:12:12,148
Make sure the Rmse, it's an arm's meter.

275
00:12:12,148 --> 00:12:12,982
Well it's right.

276
00:12:12,982 --> 00:12:15,985
So in Rmse
meter is more like a view meter.

277
00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:18,612
It's an averaging meter. Yeah. It's both.

278
00:12:18,612 --> 00:12:21,615
So the number at the top of that view
meter

279
00:12:21,657 --> 00:12:25,119
is a peak momentary number.

280
00:12:25,619 --> 00:12:29,790
And the bottom number at the bottom of
the twist wave meter is the Rmse reading.

281
00:12:29,999 --> 00:12:32,418
Okay. So it shows you both at all
the time. Right. Okay.

282
00:12:32,418 --> 00:12:36,213
Which is kind of him I wish I wish Adobe
Audition would do that.

283
00:12:36,213 --> 00:12:39,008
It's really frustrating
that audition does not show you,

284
00:12:40,009 --> 00:12:42,970
Rmse or loss metering.

285
00:12:42,970 --> 00:12:44,722
Now you can get plug ins.

286
00:12:44,722 --> 00:12:46,056
And what's a good free one?

287
00:12:46,056 --> 00:12:48,392
You mean,
is that the free? Yeah, that's the one.

288
00:12:48,392 --> 00:12:49,727
Everything is a free one.

289
00:12:49,727 --> 00:12:52,480
That's I yeah, it's perfectly good enough.

290
00:12:52,480 --> 00:12:54,732
And easy to license
and tells you what you need to do.

291
00:12:54,732 --> 00:12:55,608
Yeah. Right.

292
00:12:55,608 --> 00:12:58,903
And one thing, one thing to be clear
is that like loves and

293
00:12:59,653 --> 00:13:03,157
okay, FS are a version of averaging,
but they are over time.

294
00:13:03,282 --> 00:13:04,450
Well and also they're,

295
00:13:04,450 --> 00:13:07,453
they're frequency dependent
because they're very much voice oriented

296
00:13:07,745 --> 00:13:11,290
because they're directed
at dialog normalization for program

297
00:13:11,290 --> 00:13:12,958
for TV and whatnot.

298
00:13:12,958 --> 00:13:16,086
So they are an average
but they also weight it.

299
00:13:16,420 --> 00:13:17,797
And we talked about that earlier.

300
00:13:17,797 --> 00:13:21,926
The weighting is like applying
an EQ curve to the measurement

301
00:13:21,926 --> 00:13:25,137
so that you're focusing on a certain
frequency range so to speak.

302
00:13:25,137 --> 00:13:27,932
So lots and also they have a timing to it.

303
00:13:27,932 --> 00:13:30,226
The timing of the average
is a little bit different.

304
00:13:30,226 --> 00:13:32,770
Well that's the thing. So this is
I wanted to get into that too.

305
00:13:32,770 --> 00:13:35,564
There's so many different aspects
about measuring noise.

306
00:13:35,564 --> 00:13:37,358
So you're in twist a wave at AP.

307
00:13:37,358 --> 00:13:39,944
You hit you hit your file menu

308
00:13:39,944 --> 00:13:43,030
and drop down
and you'll find something called analyze.

309
00:13:43,906 --> 00:13:47,660
This is going to give you
much more useful information because it's

310
00:13:47,660 --> 00:13:51,038
going to give you first of all, it's
going to analyze the entire file,

311
00:13:51,580 --> 00:13:52,623
whatever it is.

312
00:13:52,623 --> 00:13:54,875
If it's an hour long it's
going to look at the whole file.

313
00:13:54,875 --> 00:13:57,294
Now you can select a tiny bit of it
and analyze it.

314
00:13:57,294 --> 00:13:59,129
But generally we analyze the whole thing.

315
00:13:59,129 --> 00:14:01,340
And now you're going
to get all this information.

316
00:14:01,340 --> 00:14:05,010
And you may see a peak amplitude of -17.

317
00:14:05,427 --> 00:14:08,848
In my case based on the last file
I just recorded and edited,

318
00:14:09,223 --> 00:14:13,269
it has a peak of zero DB,
because at some point it was a transient

319
00:14:13,269 --> 00:14:17,189
loud noise by me
laughing or snapping into and it hit zero.

320
00:14:17,690 --> 00:14:20,860
And then I see, I see laughs,
which is what Robert was talking about.

321
00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:25,739
That's that average level calculation
that's weighted based on hearing.

322
00:14:25,739 --> 00:14:28,909
And it's you said it's more voice
centric, right, Robert.

323
00:14:28,951 --> 00:14:29,535
Yeah, yeah.

324
00:14:29,535 --> 00:14:31,036
Because it's for TV programing.

325
00:14:31,036 --> 00:14:34,748
And then below that I see average Rmse.

326
00:14:35,249 --> 00:14:40,296
So now I see two numbers, both of them
measuring essentially an average level.

327
00:14:40,838 --> 00:14:43,507
But in this case very different readings.

328
00:14:43,507 --> 00:14:46,510
The love's is at -20 almost -27

329
00:14:47,052 --> 00:14:50,055
and the Rmse is -35.

330
00:14:50,556 --> 00:14:52,892
So now what numbers
are we looking at here?

331
00:14:52,892 --> 00:14:55,686
I mean we're measuring noise, right?

332
00:14:55,686 --> 00:14:57,396
So if someone asks you
what your noise floor is

333
00:14:57,396 --> 00:15:00,608
you got to ask them,
how do you want me to report this to you?

334
00:15:00,608 --> 00:15:03,611
Because if not, almost less is more.

335
00:15:03,736 --> 00:15:07,156
And, you know,
if you had to report back to them,

336
00:15:07,156 --> 00:15:08,699
then you give them an average number.

337
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:11,577
That's always going to look, look better.

338
00:15:11,577 --> 00:15:13,370
And probably the, the,

339
00:15:13,370 --> 00:15:16,665
the one based on loves
is probably the one that looks the best.

340
00:15:17,166 --> 00:15:18,626
And I guess maybe. Yeah.

341
00:15:18,626 --> 00:15:23,714
I mean, in this case, so,
so then you also have minimum arms.

342
00:15:24,632 --> 00:15:29,762
So in twist Away there's essentially what
is the sustained minimum average level.

343
00:15:30,304 --> 00:15:33,599
And that essentially gives you
your noise floor

344
00:15:34,058 --> 00:15:38,228
essentially again
assuming your peak is at zero right.

345
00:15:38,604 --> 00:15:41,607
So my opinion is is take that file.

346
00:15:41,815 --> 00:15:42,232
Bring it.

347
00:15:42,232 --> 00:15:45,152
So the peaks are at zero
normalized to zero.

348
00:15:45,152 --> 00:15:46,570
Then do this measurement.

349
00:15:46,570 --> 00:15:51,659
And when you look at that minimum RMS,
which is how loud the noise is

350
00:15:51,659 --> 00:15:55,621
at a sustained period of time,
that to me is the most honest

351
00:15:55,621 --> 00:16:00,376
possible measurement of what a
in a pure in a pure recording.

352
00:16:00,376 --> 00:16:01,627
Once you once you figure out

353
00:16:01,627 --> 00:16:05,506
the mic preamp setting for your
peaked or normalized setting,

354
00:16:06,632 --> 00:16:06,924
and you

355
00:16:06,924 --> 00:16:09,927
say, okay, so normalizing it,
I have to bring it up by

356
00:16:09,969 --> 00:16:13,597
six DB or whatever, you can almost
just do the calculation in your head.

357
00:16:13,681 --> 00:16:15,057
You can have that.

358
00:16:15,057 --> 00:16:16,433
I peak out at minus six.

359
00:16:16,433 --> 00:16:18,811
So whatever the number is
I'm going to add six to it. Right.

360
00:16:18,811 --> 00:16:21,188
So let me let me hold you there for a set
because I'm looking at AP

361
00:16:21,188 --> 00:16:24,733
and I can see him stroking his beard
which always tells me that he's thinking.

362
00:16:24,733 --> 00:16:26,735
And I'm just wondering what questions
if he got it,

363
00:16:26,735 --> 00:16:30,155
I can see it might be helpful for it
for those listening as well.

364
00:16:30,531 --> 00:16:34,618
I just put a file up on Tuesday
wave of a session I did yesterday,

365
00:16:35,452 --> 00:16:38,080
and I'm looking at the numbers

366
00:16:38,080 --> 00:16:39,581
and it's got here. Peak.

367
00:16:39,581 --> 00:16:43,836
Peak amplitude is -12.16 DB.

368
00:16:45,462 --> 00:16:47,798
True peak amplitude is

369
00:16:47,798 --> 00:16:50,801
the same -12.15

370
00:16:51,343 --> 00:16:52,386
true peak. That's another.

371
00:16:52,386 --> 00:16:52,511
Yeah.

372
00:16:52,511 --> 00:16:56,890
It is isn't and plus is sitting at 29.7,

373
00:16:57,433 --> 00:17:00,436
29.97

374
00:17:01,603 --> 00:17:03,981
average arm is power.

375
00:17:03,981 --> 00:17:04,565
We're looking at that.

376
00:17:04,565 --> 00:17:05,357
No minimum monthly.

377
00:17:05,357 --> 00:17:07,818
We're looking at minimum rest power.

378
00:17:07,818 --> 00:17:10,779
And it says to me,

379
00:17:10,779 --> 00:17:14,241
infinite, infinite or EMF dot zero DB.

380
00:17:15,492 --> 00:17:19,538
Maximum minimum miss power is -23.13 DB.

381
00:17:21,915 --> 00:17:23,667
Maximum rest is an interesting number.

382
00:17:23,667 --> 00:17:24,835
I never look at that.

383
00:17:24,835 --> 00:17:27,838
And I've never seen anybody call for it
as a spec.

384
00:17:28,714 --> 00:17:31,341
But what I do look a lot
at is minimum arms.

385
00:17:31,341 --> 00:17:34,595
And what you're telling me is the, the
and now

386
00:17:34,595 --> 00:17:37,598
this is the issue
in the duration of your file.

387
00:17:37,806 --> 00:17:41,769
At some point you silenced
there's enough pieces of audio.

388
00:17:41,769 --> 00:17:43,604
So you have what we call digital.

389
00:17:43,604 --> 00:17:45,272
That's why you got the minus infinity.

390
00:17:45,272 --> 00:17:49,109
You have a minus infinity because
it measures the digital black and does.

391
00:17:49,109 --> 00:17:50,652
That's the quietest moment.

392
00:17:50,652 --> 00:17:52,780
Well it's interesting
because I don't use silence.

393
00:17:52,780 --> 00:17:55,240
But you have a gate or something.
Just knocked it.

394
00:17:55,240 --> 00:17:58,160
No I've got nice I have room noise.

395
00:17:58,160 --> 00:18:00,412
So I actually captured light.

396
00:18:00,412 --> 00:18:02,498
Shut the door.

397
00:18:02,498 --> 00:18:04,792
Open up the mind. Well,
this was in your booth.

398
00:18:04,792 --> 00:18:06,502
Yeah. I wouldn't be surprised.

399
00:18:06,502 --> 00:18:07,628
Sometimes it'll be honest with you.

400
00:18:07,628 --> 00:18:10,631
It's something made it like made
it think that there's zilch.

401
00:18:10,798 --> 00:18:13,133
Not nothing there. Well,
I got one more question.

402
00:18:13,133 --> 00:18:16,136
What is the Rmse
window number at the bottom of the box?

403
00:18:16,178 --> 00:18:19,181
Our window is 200 milliseconds.

404
00:18:19,640 --> 00:18:22,559
Change it to two to change it to 2000.
Just.

405
00:18:22,559 --> 00:18:24,353
That's the longest window

406
00:18:24,353 --> 00:18:28,273
measurement against the little changes
in the numbers on the screen immediately.

407
00:18:28,732 --> 00:18:31,735
Okay, okay. Now it now it's changed.

408
00:18:31,902 --> 00:18:34,947
So my may look at minimum.

409
00:18:34,947 --> 00:18:35,572
Is that right.

410
00:18:35,572 --> 00:18:39,618
Minimum I tell me minimum is -33.87 DB.

411
00:18:40,452 --> 00:18:42,663
Now isn't that interesting. Okay.

412
00:18:42,663 --> 00:18:46,625
So what that means is
if the Rmse window what that means is

413
00:18:47,042 --> 00:18:50,129
what's the length of time
that it's listening to.

414
00:18:50,295 --> 00:18:50,838
Yeah. Yeah.

415
00:18:50,838 --> 00:18:53,799
And then calculating off
that window of time.

416
00:18:53,799 --> 00:18:55,968
Right. And in twisted ways. Average.

417
00:18:55,968 --> 00:18:56,176
Yeah.

418
00:18:56,176 --> 00:18:57,845
The twist the wave software

419
00:18:57,845 --> 00:19:01,598
nicely gives you an option
to change that right there in that window.

420
00:19:01,598 --> 00:19:03,976
Yeah. Many programs may not or don't.

421
00:19:03,976 --> 00:19:07,855
So now you can this is so
this is another way to fudge the living

422
00:19:07,855 --> 00:19:09,231
shit out of the number. Yeah.

423
00:19:09,231 --> 00:19:15,195
If you want your your minimum Rmse numbers
to be flattering, choose a short window,

424
00:19:15,237 --> 00:19:18,240
the shortest window possible,
and it will drop.

425
00:19:18,240 --> 00:19:20,826
And then
and then analyze the quietest moment.

426
00:19:20,826 --> 00:19:23,120
Yeah. The shorter the even more so.

427
00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:25,164
But if you want to be the most honest.

428
00:19:25,164 --> 00:19:26,498
Well, what is the most, well,

429
00:19:26,498 --> 00:19:29,293
the most honest thing
would be to do the minimums

430
00:19:29,293 --> 00:19:33,088
and tell them over x amount of time over
one the most.

431
00:19:33,088 --> 00:19:34,756
Honest. Yeah. Right.

432
00:19:34,756 --> 00:19:39,136
And so all this numbers you guys are
hearing probably menu for the first time.

433
00:19:39,678 --> 00:19:42,973
And this is the problem
with this whole conversation of

434
00:19:43,348 --> 00:19:46,185
what is the noise floor of your studio
like these.

435
00:19:46,185 --> 00:19:48,937
They come up on Facebook all the time

436
00:19:48,937 --> 00:19:52,399
and I just say, listen guys,
and we all have to be on the same page

437
00:19:52,941 --> 00:19:55,903
as to what that actually means,
how it's measured.

438
00:19:55,903 --> 00:19:58,906
And as we've just discussed,
there's a lot of variables

439
00:19:58,989 --> 00:20:01,533
and there's other stuff
to think about this

440
00:20:01,533 --> 00:20:04,995
I rather have a higher noise
floor of a nice sounding smooth

441
00:20:06,038 --> 00:20:09,041
than some like lower noise of like, okay.

442
00:20:09,166 --> 00:20:10,417
Yeah. Right.

443
00:20:10,417 --> 00:20:11,084
It's. Yeah.

444
00:20:11,084 --> 00:20:14,379
So the, the quality of the noise
and it's funny and like how

445
00:20:14,796 --> 00:20:18,342
the noise you hear about people
talking about Hi-Fi noise, right.

446
00:20:18,342 --> 00:20:19,218
And whatnot.

447
00:20:19,218 --> 00:20:22,429
But there's so many factors
and I think it's ridiculous for

448
00:20:22,930 --> 00:20:27,142
honestly the some of these places
to be sweating the voice talent over

449
00:20:27,643 --> 00:20:30,854
trying to give them numbers,
like there's some empirical way of

450
00:20:31,897 --> 00:20:34,900
determining the quality of something
just by by a simple minus

451
00:20:35,234 --> 00:20:38,403
a negative noise, but not really possible
because you just got to hear it

452
00:20:38,403 --> 00:20:41,698
and go, like,
I can use that or I can't use that.

453
00:20:41,698 --> 00:20:42,824
Yeah. And

454
00:20:42,824 --> 00:20:46,328
and generally yeah, like certain things
are going to fall in general numbers.

455
00:20:46,328 --> 00:20:49,456
But if you like, pop your mic on
and look at your meter

456
00:20:49,456 --> 00:20:53,252
and you have a peak meter or whatever,
and it's like it doesn't, it

457
00:20:53,252 --> 00:20:56,255
just like sits down low, it like -70

458
00:20:56,463 --> 00:20:59,466
minus even 60, you're probably good.

459
00:20:59,716 --> 00:21:01,093
Yeah. You know, you're probably good.

460
00:21:01,093 --> 00:21:04,471
And if, if at your setting
you get a reasonable level.

461
00:21:04,471 --> 00:21:06,473
And then when you stop talking
and you stop breathing

462
00:21:06,473 --> 00:21:10,477
and it drops down to -70,
or a good meter doesn't

463
00:21:10,477 --> 00:21:14,064
even meter so low, some of the meters
only started like -40 or so.

464
00:21:14,273 --> 00:21:14,690
Right.

465
00:21:14,690 --> 00:21:15,732
You shouldn't see anything.

466
00:21:15,732 --> 00:21:19,111
So but you know, it's like but many,

467
00:21:19,111 --> 00:21:22,114
many voice actors are on a TLM 103

468
00:21:22,322 --> 00:21:26,285
or road and one or some other might
that has no high pass,

469
00:21:26,285 --> 00:21:30,080
no filter, and it measures down to ten.

470
00:21:30,122 --> 00:21:31,540
All the noise.

471
00:21:32,582 --> 00:21:33,083
Right.

472
00:21:33,083 --> 00:21:37,337
So now you have this instrument of noise
measurement that you need.

473
00:21:37,337 --> 00:21:39,131
I always call the TLM 123.

474
00:21:39,131 --> 00:21:41,258
The seismograph of microphones.

475
00:21:41,258 --> 00:21:43,468
I was going to say
if you live in California it's even worse.

476
00:21:43,468 --> 00:21:44,511
Yeah.

477
00:21:44,511 --> 00:21:48,598
So so now you've got this instrument
that's designed to measure or listen

478
00:21:48,598 --> 00:21:51,852
to the entire range of sound below
the range of human hearing

479
00:21:52,102 --> 00:21:53,312
to above the range of human.

480
00:21:53,312 --> 00:21:55,605
And now you.
And that's all affecting the meter.

481
00:21:55,605 --> 00:21:56,773
So I get so many people

482
00:21:56,773 --> 00:22:00,277
that come to me like,
oh my gosh, my, my, it's my noise floor.

483
00:22:00,694 --> 00:22:03,530
Is it -30 2 a.m. I I'm screwed.

484
00:22:03,530 --> 00:22:06,074
Oh my God I'm gonna need
to get weatherstripping for my windows.

485
00:22:06,074 --> 00:22:09,077
You know, this is, Yeah,
this is a logical conclusion I get.

486
00:22:09,703 --> 00:22:10,412
I get this filter.

487
00:22:10,412 --> 00:22:14,458
Yes. What do you have a standing wave
in your space that you don't even know

488
00:22:14,458 --> 00:22:14,833
is there?

489
00:22:14,833 --> 00:22:19,087
Because a UV,
it's like nose blindness to a smell.

490
00:22:19,838 --> 00:22:23,592
You stop smelling certain things,
you know, and you go on vacation,

491
00:22:23,592 --> 00:22:27,304
you come home and you smell your own house
or like, geez, who farted?

492
00:22:27,471 --> 00:22:30,474
Yeah. That's right. Jesus, right?

493
00:22:30,515 --> 00:22:31,224
It's true.

494
00:22:31,224 --> 00:22:33,518
Happens all the time. We go
my apartment like,

495
00:22:33,518 --> 00:22:35,896
Is that why my first choice
to leave the dog in the house?

496
00:22:35,896 --> 00:22:36,521
Fuck it out.

497
00:22:36,521 --> 00:22:37,606
Yeah, yeah.

498
00:22:37,606 --> 00:22:39,941
So, like, with that rumbly sound,
like you?

499
00:22:39,941 --> 00:22:40,901
It's in your life.

500
00:22:40,901 --> 00:22:42,694
It's in your environment.
Is there all the time now?

501
00:22:42,694 --> 00:22:45,155
Some people are really sensitive to it
and like, some crazy.

502
00:22:45,155 --> 00:22:47,324
But most people tune it out,
you know, see it.

503
00:22:47,324 --> 00:22:49,701
But the microphone boy
does it here at all.

504
00:22:49,701 --> 00:22:53,372
And you have this crazy wavy thing
going through your waveform.

505
00:22:53,747 --> 00:22:57,459
And that is so, so easy
for any engineer to fix.

506
00:22:58,043 --> 00:23:01,129
So is it okay for the actor to high pass
filter

507
00:23:01,546 --> 00:23:04,132
their file before they send in a sample

508
00:23:04,132 --> 00:23:07,260
and say this is at a low low like

509
00:23:07,552 --> 00:23:11,264
my, you know, -50 or 60Hz or 50.

510
00:23:11,264 --> 00:23:14,017
Yeah. In there
especially with, with a gradual slope.

511
00:23:14,017 --> 00:23:15,227
And you've got no problem at all.

512
00:23:15,227 --> 00:23:17,354
But no, nobody knows what you mean
when you just said that.

513
00:23:17,354 --> 00:23:19,231
What is a gradual, gradual slope mean.

514
00:23:19,231 --> 00:23:23,318
So rather than rather than a if you're
looking at, at the, at the filter

515
00:23:23,318 --> 00:23:26,738
rather than being a cliff straight
up and down, you want a nice gradual.

516
00:23:27,155 --> 00:23:27,948
Well, it would be

517
00:23:27,948 --> 00:23:30,951
if you're looking from left to right,
it would be a nice gradual rise.

518
00:23:30,951 --> 00:23:32,911
I suppose if you're going forward,
why do you need it to be?

519
00:23:32,911 --> 00:23:35,455
You don't you don't know what it is
with certain mics. It's just a switch.

520
00:23:35,455 --> 00:23:35,872
You flip.

521
00:23:35,872 --> 00:23:39,209
But generally the mics
are going to have less steep ones.

522
00:23:39,292 --> 00:23:41,461
When you look at your EQ, you can see it.

523
00:23:41,461 --> 00:23:44,214
You should just know that
when you have a very steep filter,

524
00:23:44,214 --> 00:23:47,926
any filter there's there's always an equal
and opposite reaction to things.

525
00:23:48,218 --> 00:23:51,096
So as you have a steeper
cliff of the cut off,

526
00:23:51,096 --> 00:23:54,307
you're going to reflect
straight back into the other side.

527
00:23:54,724 --> 00:23:58,019
And so the gradual ones
are more transparent.

528
00:23:58,019 --> 00:24:02,232
So the FFT filter and Adobe Audition,
I shouldn't

529
00:24:02,232 --> 00:24:06,194
use it at 60Hz with an extremely,
I guess, vertical line.

530
00:24:06,194 --> 00:24:07,112
You might get away with it

531
00:24:07,112 --> 00:24:10,198
at 60, depending on what you're doing,
depending on what you're working on.

532
00:24:10,407 --> 00:24:12,826
I'm talking about it's
going to have a it's going to have a

533
00:24:12,826 --> 00:24:16,329
like like like you know
how some filters even show you when you

534
00:24:16,329 --> 00:24:20,333
when you drop the curves tight,
the, the part right before it pops up.

535
00:24:20,333 --> 00:24:21,084
Yeah, it's the resonance.

536
00:24:21,084 --> 00:24:24,087
It literally it literally gives you
a peak of energy called the.

537
00:24:24,796 --> 00:24:25,172
Yeah.

538
00:24:25,172 --> 00:24:28,175
It's like the same thing
happens with a speaker with porting.

539
00:24:28,633 --> 00:24:30,677
It's it's almost the same physics.
I believe.

540
00:24:30,677 --> 00:24:33,054
That's what I love about the high pass
filter and twist wave.

541
00:24:33,054 --> 00:24:36,016
By the way, it's not actually twisted
waves high pass filter.

542
00:24:36,016 --> 00:24:39,019
It's Apple's it's
the Apple high pass filter.

543
00:24:39,019 --> 00:24:39,436
Is that right.

544
00:24:39,436 --> 00:24:43,648
It has a yeah it has a cutoff filter
and it has a resonance setting.

545
00:24:44,232 --> 00:24:45,817
So you can control both.

546
00:24:45,817 --> 00:24:48,778
You can control how much
and what frequency.

547
00:24:48,778 --> 00:24:52,407
And you can add a resonance bump
if you want or a delay

548
00:24:52,657 --> 00:24:54,117
that's big for those synth guys.

549
00:24:54,117 --> 00:24:56,119
I love the razor. I do don't like this.

550
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,165
It's also a way to artificially
give yourself a little bit of extra,

551
00:25:00,165 --> 00:25:01,374
little extra.

552
00:25:01,374 --> 00:25:04,002
So it's like if you play,
are you probably, you do better music.

553
00:25:04,002 --> 00:25:06,338
You've played with fab Filter on waves.

554
00:25:06,338 --> 00:25:08,340
You know that little resonance
scene there?

555
00:25:08,340 --> 00:25:09,591
Wow wow wow.

556
00:25:09,591 --> 00:25:11,718
And you can put it in tempo
and all that sort of stuff.

557
00:25:11,718 --> 00:25:14,095
Those synth guys love it. Yeah,
I love that.

558
00:25:14,095 --> 00:25:14,971
Yeah yeah yeah.

559
00:25:14,971 --> 00:25:16,014
So Andrew

560
00:25:16,014 --> 00:25:19,476
yes this is my now when somebody asks you
what's the noise floor of your studio.

561
00:25:19,476 --> 00:25:22,479
What are you going to tell them. Nothing.

562
00:25:23,188 --> 00:25:24,397
Yeah. Admit nothing.

563
00:25:24,397 --> 00:25:26,525
Your first question is over.

564
00:25:26,525 --> 00:25:28,527
What settings is is your question.

565
00:25:28,527 --> 00:25:30,028
Yeah. Yeah. You're going to have a sir.

566
00:25:30,028 --> 00:25:32,656
You're going to have a list
of like six questions.

567
00:25:32,656 --> 00:25:34,574
Yeah. What is the windowing. Yeah. Yeah.

568
00:25:34,574 --> 00:25:37,661
What is the, are we measuring
like what are we measuring.

569
00:25:37,661 --> 00:25:38,745
How we measuring it.

570
00:25:38,745 --> 00:25:41,957
Yeah, we're about
so we measure what weighting and what.

571
00:25:42,374 --> 00:25:42,541
Yeah.

572
00:25:42,541 --> 00:25:45,544
What scale,
what weighting and what window of time.

573
00:25:45,961 --> 00:25:46,545
It's interesting.

574
00:25:46,545 --> 00:25:49,839
I must do this again though, using
a different, different setup because,

575
00:25:51,132 --> 00:25:55,095
so the minimum at 33.87, -33.87.

576
00:25:56,263 --> 00:25:58,473
Minimum over 248

577
00:25:58,473 --> 00:26:02,143
using over over 2000 milliseconds.

578
00:26:02,686 --> 00:26:03,645
Right.

579
00:26:03,645 --> 00:26:07,065
That means that file, does
this an edited file.

580
00:26:07,315 --> 00:26:08,316
Yeah.

581
00:26:08,316 --> 00:26:12,279
So over the course of that edited file,
which doesn't have a bunch of room

582
00:26:12,279 --> 00:26:13,989
tone, right? Yeah.

583
00:26:13,989 --> 00:26:16,866
It's mostly your voice during that

584
00:26:16,866 --> 00:26:20,453
segment of audio,
there are very there's almost no segments.

585
00:26:20,453 --> 00:26:23,790
If there's no segment in there,
two full seconds long.

586
00:26:24,374 --> 00:26:26,167
That is silence, right?

587
00:26:26,167 --> 00:26:28,253
Okay. There's there's no drop.

588
00:26:28,253 --> 00:26:29,713
At no point during that file

589
00:26:29,713 --> 00:26:33,883
do you just literally stop talking
and have a two second gap.

590
00:26:34,050 --> 00:26:34,426
Right?

591
00:26:34,426 --> 00:26:37,512
So when you measure it, it's not finding

592
00:26:37,512 --> 00:26:40,515
a segment of two seconds of room tone
because there ain't there.

593
00:26:40,890 --> 00:26:41,141
Right.

594
00:26:41,141 --> 00:26:45,979
So you have to measure this before editing
because you need to have some room tone

595
00:26:45,979 --> 00:26:46,771
to measure.

596
00:26:46,771 --> 00:26:48,982
You know you have to have that room tone
to begin with.

597
00:26:48,982 --> 00:26:52,110
So if you picked another file entry
that had some room tone on it, just,

598
00:26:52,235 --> 00:26:55,155
you know, so and even more to the point,
I was going to bring up like be

599
00:26:55,155 --> 00:26:58,450
careful
of some other things, for example, dither.

600
00:26:58,450 --> 00:26:59,200
What is dither?

601
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:03,204
Oh no, dither don't go in the ways
it's noise.

602
00:27:03,496 --> 00:27:06,291
So so that's you know,
maybe it's a low level and below

603
00:27:06,291 --> 00:27:08,251
the levels that we're talking about,
they're going to affect it.

604
00:27:08,251 --> 00:27:10,420
But that is adding noise to your signal.

605
00:27:10,420 --> 00:27:13,423
And then the other one to be careful of is
if you compress your voice

606
00:27:14,049 --> 00:27:17,886
you are reducing the signal to noise
ratio.

607
00:27:17,969 --> 00:27:21,348
You are inherently
bringing up your noise floor by using a

608
00:27:21,473 --> 00:27:24,434
because all the high stuff is pushing down
towards the noise anyway.

609
00:27:24,434 --> 00:27:25,769
That's right, pushing that down.

610
00:27:25,769 --> 00:27:27,437
Bring the whole thing up
however you want to.

611
00:27:27,437 --> 00:27:30,940
A compressor is designed
to reduce dynamic range.

612
00:27:30,940 --> 00:27:33,943
And so what is that signal to noise ratio?

613
00:27:34,110 --> 00:27:35,570
You add more compression.

614
00:27:35,570 --> 00:27:38,615
You're reducing
that dynamic range of signal to noise.

615
00:27:39,282 --> 00:27:40,909
The noise gets louder. Right? Right.

616
00:27:40,909 --> 00:27:44,913
Which is why I say please don't compress
and send me your voice tracks

617
00:27:44,913 --> 00:27:47,248
because it only makes it
if your noise floor is,

618
00:27:47,248 --> 00:27:48,958
it makes it harder
for me to get rid of it.

619
00:27:48,958 --> 00:27:53,380
And then on the flip side, you can use
an expander to figure lower noise more.

620
00:27:54,255 --> 00:27:55,548
And I do that all the time.

621
00:27:58,510 --> 00:27:59,094
Not only

622
00:27:59,094 --> 00:28:03,181
perfectly, but I always try to get away
with murder, an expander

623
00:28:03,181 --> 00:28:07,018
and not a gate, because a gate
is going to have that hard on off.

624
00:28:07,060 --> 00:28:09,396
It's every engineer get in there.

625
00:28:09,396 --> 00:28:11,856
Skin crawls if they detect a gate.

626
00:28:11,856 --> 00:28:12,899
Oh that's.

627
00:28:12,899 --> 00:28:15,485
Yeah, that's a big no no. It's
the gate is the biggest.

628
00:28:15,485 --> 00:28:18,822
No, no of all, you know, it's
as soon as they detect that okay.

629
00:28:18,905 --> 00:28:20,949
Oh this is interesting okay.

630
00:28:20,949 --> 00:28:22,158
So I've just laid another one up.

631
00:28:22,158 --> 00:28:25,704
This is, roughly edited
but not dramatically

632
00:28:26,705 --> 00:28:30,166
minimum of Rmse, -58.82.

633
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:31,876
And what's the window?

634
00:28:31,876 --> 00:28:34,629
That's a, the window is 2000 milliseconds.

635
00:28:34,629 --> 00:28:35,964
Make the window 1000.

636
00:28:35,964 --> 00:28:38,758
I don't know what is the default.

637
00:28:38,758 --> 00:28:43,596
It might be 200, but generally the shorter
windows typically.

638
00:28:43,596 --> 00:28:43,763
Yeah.

639
00:28:43,763 --> 00:28:46,975
What's what's the window
for like a view meter I don't know,

640
00:28:46,975 --> 00:28:51,271
but try to try 200 milliseconds Andrew,
because I feel like that's more likely.

641
00:28:51,271 --> 00:28:53,148
What is common.

642
00:28:53,148 --> 00:28:55,191
Okay. With the 200 milliseconds?

643
00:28:57,193 --> 00:29:01,114
This sample is 300 milliseconds,
by the way.

644
00:29:01,114 --> 00:29:01,865
Oh, okay.

645
00:29:01,865 --> 00:29:02,866
Let's go to 3.30.

646
00:29:02,866 --> 00:29:05,827
It's got A33 hundred
and I got 300 milliseconds.

647
00:29:05,827 --> 00:29:06,119
Okay.

648
00:29:06,119 --> 00:29:10,874
So now I've got minimum Rmse of -76.43 DB.

649
00:29:11,166 --> 00:29:11,958
That's very good.

650
00:29:11,958 --> 00:29:14,002
Which I would say
is a really good set. Exactly.

651
00:29:14,002 --> 00:29:16,087
I mean -70 I'll tell you anything.

652
00:29:16,087 --> 00:29:18,339
Like tell me again
what was what was the peak on that.

653
00:29:18,339 --> 00:29:20,592
What was the peak and the peak.

654
00:29:20,592 --> 00:29:24,929
Peak amplitude is -6.6 db okay.

655
00:29:24,929 --> 00:29:27,974
So we subtract minus six
and then just go true

656
00:29:27,974 --> 00:29:31,102
peak assignment peak versus peak is.

657
00:29:31,102 --> 00:29:32,187
So there's so close.

658
00:29:32,187 --> 00:29:36,524
And then the lux was -26.25 okay.

659
00:29:36,524 --> 00:29:39,068
So that's just the average of
how loud you are. Yeah.

660
00:29:39,068 --> 00:29:39,778
And that's another thing.

661
00:29:39,778 --> 00:29:43,656
People will sometimes be told to send
in a file with a loss of a certain value.

662
00:29:44,324 --> 00:29:47,285
And that is not unless you're processing
your audio.

663
00:29:47,285 --> 00:29:49,370
That's not acceptable. As of spec.

664
00:29:49,370 --> 00:29:52,332
You cannot expect an actor
to deliver a raw

665
00:29:52,332 --> 00:29:55,627
performance at a specific average level.

666
00:29:55,627 --> 00:29:57,545
Yeah, that's a ridiculous record.

667
00:29:57,545 --> 00:29:59,547
I seen it come up.

668
00:29:59,547 --> 00:30:02,967
Video game,
people will say we want peaks around -18

669
00:30:03,551 --> 00:30:06,805
and they and the actor
doesn't know exactly what to do.

670
00:30:06,846 --> 00:30:09,849
So what are they going to do,
put a limiter on it I mean, right.

671
00:30:10,391 --> 00:30:11,309
No, no. Right.

672
00:30:11,309 --> 00:30:12,352
No thank you. Right.

673
00:30:12,352 --> 00:30:13,561
No no, no.

674
00:30:13,561 --> 00:30:16,147
They're expecting to have an engineer
sit there with their

675
00:30:16,147 --> 00:30:18,483
with their knob on the,
with their hand on the preamp knob.

676
00:30:18,483 --> 00:30:21,694
And it's just not possible
for an actor to do.

677
00:30:21,694 --> 00:30:24,489
And so. But why are they
why are they asking for these specs?

678
00:30:24,489 --> 00:30:27,700
I mean, if you've got an engineer
working on it, does it matter?

679
00:30:28,117 --> 00:30:30,662
I don't know, I think it's ridiculous.

680
00:30:30,662 --> 00:30:33,164
I honestly think it's ridiculous
that they do this

681
00:30:33,164 --> 00:30:36,125
because they're asking for something
that's impossible,

682
00:30:36,292 --> 00:30:40,296
and they just force these actors to either
freak out or start over doctoring

683
00:30:40,630 --> 00:30:43,633
and doing other nefarious means

684
00:30:43,633 --> 00:30:46,678
of faking numbers that they think
they're trying to punch it.

685
00:30:46,845 --> 00:30:48,513
Yeah, because you can't. Right?

686
00:30:48,513 --> 00:30:50,765
You can't really deliver this
this in a reasonable

687
00:30:50,765 --> 00:30:52,600
asking them to do something stupid.

688
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:53,977
Yeah, absolutely.

689
00:30:53,977 --> 00:30:56,646
Andrew,
you said a noise were of -70, right.

690
00:30:56,646 --> 00:31:00,024
But that's got to be a,
that's that's an average.

691
00:31:00,024 --> 00:31:01,609
So that was a that was an Rmse rule.

692
00:31:03,069 --> 00:31:06,281
And then, and then if you add back
if you peak normalize

693
00:31:06,281 --> 00:31:09,284
your voice out of it, you're probably
going to add another six decibels.

694
00:31:09,284 --> 00:31:12,120
And you're probably gonna get pretty close
to that -60 range.

695
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:12,412
Yeah.

696
00:31:12,412 --> 00:31:17,292
Most people in a home studio,
I dare you to do better than -60,

697
00:31:17,292 --> 00:31:20,587
unless you are putting $10,000
into your booth.

698
00:31:20,879 --> 00:31:21,421
I'll tell you what.

699
00:31:21,421 --> 00:31:23,756
It's power. I'm telling you, it's power.

700
00:31:23,756 --> 00:31:25,717
How clean your power is.

701
00:31:25,717 --> 00:31:29,971
I think it's a lot, because I will get
recordings of a 41 six into a Scarlett,

702
00:31:30,096 --> 00:31:34,726
and sometimes it's
-75 DB all day of noise floor.

703
00:31:34,726 --> 00:31:36,477
And I'm just like, damn, that's clean.

704
00:31:36,477 --> 00:31:39,480
So you're saying like, are you suggesting,
like a power conditioner?

705
00:31:39,606 --> 00:31:41,441
Something like, I think it's just luckily

706
00:31:41,441 --> 00:31:44,360
some people are lucky
they live in a more rural area.

707
00:31:44,360 --> 00:31:47,155
There's not a lot of dirty power
from neighbors.

708
00:31:47,155 --> 00:31:47,447
They're not.

709
00:31:47,447 --> 00:31:50,617
Have you ever noticed that if you
if you have your laptop plugged

710
00:31:50,617 --> 00:31:53,077
in, it's worse
than if you unplug your laptop?

711
00:31:53,077 --> 00:31:55,371
Well, that's the absolute guarantee.

712
00:31:55,371 --> 00:31:56,664
Guaranteed.

713
00:31:56,664 --> 00:31:59,584
Yeah. Like you want the best noise
possible.

714
00:31:59,584 --> 00:32:00,543
Clean power.

715
00:32:00,543 --> 00:32:03,338
Unplug
your unplug your laptop and run on it.

716
00:32:03,338 --> 00:32:06,007
And just do your session with the battery
instead of the power.

717
00:32:06,007 --> 00:32:08,051
Yeah, yeah. Here's another thing.

718
00:32:08,051 --> 00:32:13,222
Just to add to this, this file
I remember I recorded, I actually

719
00:32:14,515 --> 00:32:15,308
added gain.

720
00:32:15,308 --> 00:32:18,978
I added about nine db of gain to it.

721
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:22,523
So I really recorded peak level of

722
00:32:23,566 --> 00:32:26,402
minus -15 I reckon.

723
00:32:26,402 --> 00:32:29,530
Oh okay. So it was actually -15.

724
00:32:29,530 --> 00:32:33,034
And then I add a gain to it
to bring it up to minus six.

725
00:32:33,660 --> 00:32:34,661
Yeah.

726
00:32:34,661 --> 00:32:38,081
So based on the fact it was
that would affect the noise floor as well.

727
00:32:38,081 --> 00:32:40,583
I would imagine
if I was it'll bring it all up. Yeah.

728
00:32:40,583 --> 00:32:42,335
I was just see a signal to noise ratio.

729
00:32:42,335 --> 00:32:43,836
When you you're increases a million.

730
00:32:43,836 --> 00:32:47,715
If you don't do any compression
or any expansion your ratio will stay

731
00:32:47,715 --> 00:32:50,843
the same,
not at least of the acoustic noise floor.

732
00:32:51,177 --> 00:32:54,180
And you're just bringing it up or down
relative to

733
00:32:54,722 --> 00:32:57,350
like,
oh, here's a louder noise and louder me.

734
00:32:57,350 --> 00:33:00,103
It's so interesting because like,
even the microphones that have

735
00:33:00,103 --> 00:33:02,647
they do have different values
for how quiet they are.

736
00:33:02,647 --> 00:33:04,941
And some of them brag quite heavily.

737
00:33:04,941 --> 00:33:06,275
Road is one of them.

738
00:33:06,275 --> 00:33:09,570
They brag a lot
about how quiet the road 21 is,

739
00:33:09,696 --> 00:33:13,866
like is itself noise rating
and the TLM 103 also very quiet Mike.

740
00:33:13,950 --> 00:33:18,246
But in a real world scenario,
you'd probably get a better average

741
00:33:18,246 --> 00:33:21,457
noise reading from a 41 six

742
00:33:22,041 --> 00:33:25,211
whose self noise is like -16.

743
00:33:25,336 --> 00:33:30,717
Yeah, I'm sorry 16 DB versus the road,
which is maybe four DB

744
00:33:31,217 --> 00:33:34,554
because simply
because a 441 six isn't hearing

745
00:33:35,013 --> 00:33:38,599
as much information
as the Antwon is hearing.

746
00:33:39,100 --> 00:33:42,478
I said from from the bottom of the ocean
to well above,

747
00:33:42,478 --> 00:33:43,688
and it's hearing everything.

748
00:33:43,688 --> 00:33:48,151
The 416 and this is indicative of most
microphones that have smaller diaphragms.

749
00:33:48,151 --> 00:33:52,655
It's much harder to get low noise out of a
small diaphragm, large diaphragm mics.

750
00:33:52,655 --> 00:33:55,658
One of the big reasons for them is they're
easier to get a better noise floor.

751
00:33:55,658 --> 00:33:58,745
So those mikes are going to give you
a better electronic reading.

752
00:33:59,203 --> 00:34:02,206
But again, I think the like
you said at the very beginning,

753
00:34:02,665 --> 00:34:05,668
any of your noise is coming
from environmental stuff

754
00:34:05,710 --> 00:34:08,921
and the 416 is going
to just not hear a ton of that.

755
00:34:09,380 --> 00:34:09,964
Yeah.

756
00:34:09,964 --> 00:34:11,924
Not not
not just because it doesn't hear it on.

757
00:34:11,924 --> 00:34:14,969
It's, it's, you know, it's
cut off on the low end maybe.

758
00:34:14,969 --> 00:34:17,847
Oh yeah. But also because it's
so directional, right.

759
00:34:17,847 --> 00:34:19,015
Yeah. As well.

760
00:34:19,015 --> 00:34:20,892
The other thing I also throw into the mix,

761
00:34:21,934 --> 00:34:23,686
the microphone was the

762
00:34:23,686 --> 00:34:28,357
818818, but I think this is the
this is the kicker.

763
00:34:29,108 --> 00:34:32,111
The preamp I used was the 1073 Neve.

764
00:34:32,779 --> 00:34:34,197
And that's for the Transformers.

765
00:34:34,197 --> 00:34:36,365
So I'm guessing
you get quite a bit of noise.

766
00:34:36,365 --> 00:34:37,533
Other noise. Yeah.

767
00:34:37,533 --> 00:34:37,867
Yeah yeah.

768
00:34:37,867 --> 00:34:39,535
The transformers always have noise.

769
00:34:39,535 --> 00:34:40,995
Yes, yes.

770
00:34:40,995 --> 00:34:44,332
So that wasn't even the cleanest
signal path you could get, your Grace or

771
00:34:44,332 --> 00:34:46,042
something would be better.

772
00:34:46,042 --> 00:34:46,751
Yeah, quite a bit.

773
00:34:46,751 --> 00:34:50,046
If I use the grays, it'll be a lot cleaner
than.

774
00:34:50,046 --> 00:34:54,926
Or to wrap it all up,
the past for a video, which apparently,

775
00:34:55,384 --> 00:35:01,057
based on some measurements, it's
it measures out very, very, very, very,

776
00:35:01,057 --> 00:35:05,103
very well, pleasingly compared
to, let's just say, the Avalon.

777
00:35:05,144 --> 00:35:08,689
That was the place where I had that gear
measure was a place where they test

778
00:35:08,689 --> 00:35:12,401
and tune and repair Avalon preamps all day
long.

779
00:35:12,527 --> 00:35:12,902
Right.

780
00:35:12,902 --> 00:35:16,906
So let's just say the best money can buy
in terms of preamp circuits, you know,

781
00:35:17,406 --> 00:35:20,118
and especially possibly
because you can take the passport,

782
00:35:20,118 --> 00:35:22,703
Vo, unplug your computer,
power off the computer.

783
00:35:22,703 --> 00:35:25,498
Now you're floating.
And that's precisely what they were doing.

784
00:35:25,498 --> 00:35:27,917
This in this case,
they were using a laptop

785
00:35:27,917 --> 00:35:30,086
to run the Power passport with no power.

786
00:35:30,086 --> 00:35:31,087
It was running a battery.

787
00:35:31,087 --> 00:35:33,339
So we're getting the lowest
the cleanest power.

788
00:35:33,339 --> 00:35:34,340
And then we were measuring,

789
00:35:35,591 --> 00:35:38,594
the tone was coming in the XLR
and passing out

790
00:35:38,594 --> 00:35:42,390
the one of the balanced outputs
for the monitors.

791
00:35:42,849 --> 00:35:44,016
So it was running all the way through

792
00:35:44,016 --> 00:35:47,061
and out the monitor output
and then into the precision.

793
00:35:47,061 --> 00:35:49,564
So that was the whole path, the preamp.

794
00:35:49,564 --> 00:35:52,483
Right, the E to D, the D to A

795
00:35:52,483 --> 00:35:57,405
and the auxiliary to the, the
the the the the preamp of the yeah.

796
00:35:57,405 --> 00:35:59,198
The the speaker. Yeah.

797
00:35:59,198 --> 00:36:01,075
And the thing is
we don't have a way to calibrate

798
00:36:01,075 --> 00:36:04,662
what the input and outputs on
the of the device should actually be.

799
00:36:04,662 --> 00:36:07,665
So we had the gain at neutral 12:00.

800
00:36:07,707 --> 00:36:10,751
You know we don't know what the gain was
truly set to.

801
00:36:10,751 --> 00:36:15,256
It could have been a 40 DB of gain 38
I mean we don't know 45.

802
00:36:15,965 --> 00:36:17,758
So we don't know what the gain is.

803
00:36:17,758 --> 00:36:20,845
And that was somebody one of our,
one of our listeners, you know, wrote in.

804
00:36:20,845 --> 00:36:21,095
He's like,

805
00:36:21,095 --> 00:36:25,016
well, I mean, it doesn't mean much because
I don't know what your gain setting was.

806
00:36:25,016 --> 00:36:25,892
I don't know.

807
00:36:25,892 --> 00:36:29,395
And I said, well, we are all comparing
this and contacts with an Avalon.

808
00:36:29,395 --> 00:36:31,480
737 right.

809
00:36:31,480 --> 00:36:34,817
Which is a very clean, very,
very low distortion.

810
00:36:34,817 --> 00:36:36,736
We haven't time
distortion, little distortion.

811
00:36:36,736 --> 00:36:37,570
And that'll be another one.

812
00:36:37,570 --> 00:36:40,239
Yeah. That's not going to start down
that road right now.

813
00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:43,326
The noise,
the noise reading was comparable

814
00:36:43,784 --> 00:36:48,122
to the 737 and 737 is around
minus is around -92.

815
00:36:48,831 --> 00:36:52,835
Passport was in the margin
of error -89 -90.

816
00:36:53,169 --> 00:36:55,087
So it was very close.

817
00:36:55,087 --> 00:36:59,592
And essentially at that low of a
the price is around 1000 or 600.

818
00:36:59,675 --> 00:37:00,676
Yeah. Yeah.

819
00:37:00,676 --> 00:37:05,389
No no more like 1506
out of the 737 is like 2500.

820
00:37:05,389 --> 00:37:07,934
Yeah I say that way up. Yeah.

821
00:37:07,934 --> 00:37:10,895
So so really it compares with boutique

822
00:37:11,020 --> 00:37:14,023
and you know really high quality preamps.

823
00:37:14,023 --> 00:37:18,402
And at those numbers they're,
they're negligible in terms of your noise.

824
00:37:18,402 --> 00:37:20,112
Like when you record something

825
00:37:20,112 --> 00:37:22,907
and we're all talking about
where's the noise coming from

826
00:37:22,907 --> 00:37:25,034
at any of these,
any of this gear we're talking about.

827
00:37:25,034 --> 00:37:26,285
It's not the preamp.

828
00:37:26,285 --> 00:37:27,495
It is not the preamp.

829
00:37:27,495 --> 00:37:27,912
You know.

830
00:37:27,912 --> 00:37:30,790
So it's it's the train that I mean when I.

831
00:37:30,790 --> 00:37:36,087
Okay, that's the train Robert calling on
and the foam patch, that he's

832
00:37:36,087 --> 00:37:39,966
passing through on the way from the train
and the neighbor's internet connection.

833
00:37:41,592 --> 00:37:43,886
Hey, listen, speaking of microphones
before we go, who's

834
00:37:43,886 --> 00:37:47,139
the friend of mine in Potts Point,
which is a very hoi

835
00:37:47,139 --> 00:37:50,142
polloi suburb in Sydney,
very wealthy part of Sydney.

836
00:37:50,142 --> 00:37:52,395
Check out
can you see the number plate on this car?

837
00:37:52,395 --> 00:37:54,897
Well, it's like, you know, I can't see it.
I can't make it.

838
00:37:54,897 --> 00:37:57,149
The number plate. He's road you.

839
00:37:57,149 --> 00:37:59,360
No, that'll be the Freeman's.

840
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:01,320
What is it? What's the car?

841
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:02,196
Looks like a business.

842
00:38:02,196 --> 00:38:04,490
I have no idea. Actually, no,
it looks like a rolls.

843
00:38:04,490 --> 00:38:05,866
I'm not a car fanatic.

844
00:38:05,866 --> 00:38:07,576
I have no idea.
I'll send you guys the photo.

845
00:38:07,576 --> 00:38:09,954
You can have a look.
Yeah, it's a Bentley or a rolls. Yeah.

846
00:38:09,954 --> 00:38:11,580
Ask. Ask Rowan Atkinson. Healey.

847
00:38:11,580 --> 00:38:13,082
And you know who that is? That.

848
00:38:13,082 --> 00:38:15,084
That'd be Freeman who owns road. Right.

849
00:38:15,084 --> 00:38:17,044
There you go. Yeah. Hello. Road.

850
00:38:18,587 --> 00:38:19,046
Hello.

851
00:38:19,046 --> 00:38:20,923
Model.

852
00:38:20,923 --> 00:38:21,716
Well, that was fun.

853
00:38:21,716 --> 00:38:24,969
Is it over the front? Audio. Sweet.

854
00:38:25,177 --> 00:38:26,262
Thanks to driver

855
00:38:26,262 --> 00:38:31,392
and Austrian audio recorded using Source
Connect, edited by Andrew Peters.

856
00:38:31,392 --> 00:38:34,228
And make Spyro
the Got Your own audio issues.

857
00:38:34,228 --> 00:38:35,354
Just ask Robbo.

858
00:38:35,354 --> 00:38:37,898
Don't call him tech support for George
the tech William.

859
00:38:37,898 --> 00:38:39,734
Don't forget to subscribe to the show

860
00:38:39,734 --> 00:38:43,112
and join the conversation
on our Facebook group to leave a comment.

861
00:38:43,112 --> 00:38:46,907
Suggest a topic or just say goodbye,
drop us a note at our website.

862
00:38:46,907 --> 00:38:48,743
Rodeo suite.com.