DAW Showdown: Comparing the Latest Digital Audio Workstations of 2024

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(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Y'all ready to be history?

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Get started.

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Welcome.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hi.

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Hello, everyone.

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To the Pro Audio Suite.

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These guys are professional, they're motivated.

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Thanks to Tribush, the best vocal booth for

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home or on the road voice recording, and

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Austrian Audio, making passion heard.

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Introducing Robert Marshall, from Source Elements, and Someone

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Audio Post, Chicago.

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Darren Robert Robertson, from Voodoo Radio Imaging, Sydney.

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Tech to the VO stars, George the Tech

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Whittam, from LA, and me, Andrew Peters, voiceover

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talent, and home studio guy.

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Line up, man.

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Here we go.

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Sound on me.

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And welcome to another Pro Audio Suite.

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Thanks to Austrian Audio, making passion heard, and

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Tribush, don't forget the code, T-R-I

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-P-A-P 200, to get 200 US

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dollars off your Tribush.

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Also, while we've got your ear, we know

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we have a lot of listeners, and a

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lot of you haven't subscribed.

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And if you would like to subscribe, that

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will help us a lot with numbers, and

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also give us the ability to maybe get

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some really funky new guests.

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Who knows?

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Anyway, I was listening to another podcast, which

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I'll give a plug, Production Expert.

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I hadn't heard it before, but a friend

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tipped me into it, and it was really

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interesting.

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And they covered quite a lot of topics.

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One that they kind of dabbled with, and

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then moved away, was DAWs.

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And I know there's some pretty wacky stuff

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out there that people use.

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I've been a victim of that.

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I think my first DAW was Magix Samplitude.

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I remember that.

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I never used it, but I do remember

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it.

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Yeah, that was, when I think about it

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now, it's like, well, I don't know what

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I was thinking.

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And then the second one I got was

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Wave Lab, which was part of Vin's build

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into his PCs.

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And now, of course, I've bitten the bullet,

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jumped across, and I've just set up Twisted

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Wave on everything, which I'm very happy with.

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Thank you, Thomas.

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Well, Robbo's flying an A380 every time we

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do a show.

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How's the plane flying today, Robbo?

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It's on autopilot at the moment.

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So yeah, it seems to be going OK.

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OK, good.

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So how long ago, let's go a little

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bit of history then.

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Do you remember when you first started recording

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and editing on a computer?

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And what you were using then?

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For me, it would have been, oh wow,

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that's a very good question.

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It would have been early 2000s, maybe even

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2000, maybe 1999.

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I can't actually remember.

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Yeah.

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But it was very early.

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Yeah.

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How about you, Robbo?

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Oh, jeez.

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The very first DAW that I worked on

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was DSP.

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DSP?

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Triple M in Brisbane.

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So it would have been like 1992, 1993,

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around there somewhere.

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Yeah, that's early.

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It was hooked up to one of the

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very first Yamaha automated, little tiny automated consoles.

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So DSP was an Australian company.

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When it folded, Fairlight bought them.

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I actually used to do, back in the

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early 2000s, I actually used to do their

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training for them.

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When people bought new DSP units here in

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Sydney, I used to be the dude that

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went out and did all the training on

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site for a couple of days with the

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engineers.

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So, yeah, it was a really good piece

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of software.

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We had it at George Pat's when I

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was there as well.

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And, yeah, unfortunately they went under.

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But, yeah, that's how long, yeah.

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So, Jesus, what's that?

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30 odd years ago, I suppose.

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Was that a true multi-track DAW environment?

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It was.

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It was an eight track.

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Yeah, eight tracks.

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Eight tracks of digital audio.

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So, yeah.

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And I remember sitting in the production studio

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at Triple M in Brisbane when I was

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up there.

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We got it on a trial and watching

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the flying faders and everybody.

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I think the whole radio station sort of

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circled in and out of the studio to

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come check out this fancy new piece of

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equipment.

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But, yeah, it was good.

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I learned on a Yamaha DMC-1000 digital

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mixing console.

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Could have been the same model.

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It probably was.

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It was installed around that time.

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They had it at Virginia Tech in the

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music studio from 92, 93.

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And I just remember I called it the

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Lean and Squint 1000.

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Lean and Squint.

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Because it had this little blue backlit LCD

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screen at the top right.

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And there was so many damn operations you

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had to do through that little screen.

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And you're always leaning over and squinting at

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the screen.

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But it had those flying faders.

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It was super high quality sound.

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Do you know what I remember the most,

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though?

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Coming from analog into digital is just that

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wow moment when you just realized what a

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game changer digital audio was actually going to

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be.

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After all those years of multitrack and splicing

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and drop editing and overdubs and all the

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rest of it, to look at it and

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just go, holy crap, what can't I do

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now?

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That was the thing that always got me.

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I had the interim step where I skipped

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over analog.

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I played with it and hobbied with it,

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but I never used it professionally.

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So I wasn't splicing on splicing blocks and

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stuff.

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But when I went to Virginia Tech, we

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had the digital tape machines, the DA88 from

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Tascam.

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And so I went straight to digital tape.

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But the time where we finally went to

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a DAW, we were using Sonic Solutions.

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And that was only for mastering for CD.

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That's all we used it for.

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So everything else was done on tape.

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And we would mix down to a DAT.

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And then typically we would take the DAT,

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load that into Sonic Solutions, and use that

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to author the disc, the CD-R.

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I'd go down to the library, to the

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bookstore, buy one blank CD-R, $15.

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And your professor would say, burn this at

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1x speed.

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Don't do 2x, because sometimes it screws up.

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So I remember that.

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But yeah, Sonic Solutions was the first one

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I used in school.

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And then on my own, I remember using

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for multitrack.

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I learned on, I don't know why I

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stumbled on it, but probably because I was

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on PC.

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I stumbled onto Cakewalk.

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And then Cakewalk became Sonar.

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Sonar, it changed names or something.

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And I believe to this day, Sonar is

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still out there.

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Sonar X1, X2, whatever the 13 or 14

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version it is.

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And that was what I did.

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I did a fair amount of multitrack production

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on Sonar.

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And then for single or two-track editing

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and recording, I was using WaveLab.

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So I went back to WaveLab on my

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laptop, and I would use my laptop to

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record and burn CDs, and I would use

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it to do live records.

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I would bring my laptop out to a

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venue with my, at the time I had

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a Grace Designs Lunatec V2 stereo mic preamp.

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Really hi-fi stuff.

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And I would run that straight into a

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Digigram sound card that was PCMCIA, and it

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slid into the side of the laptop.

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And that's how I could, I did really

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high-quality stereo records that way in the

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field.

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So those were my earliest dogs that I

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worked on.

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And I don't remember when I transitioned out

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of using Cakewalk.

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Probably when I went to get, when I

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first got my Mac, and I was realizing

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I had to teach a lot of people

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how to record, and I had to use

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what was common in our business.

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So that's when I started learning Pro Tools

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slowly, and then I started using Adobe Audition

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and Keep Cool Edit and all the others.

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What was your first version of Pro Tools

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then?

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Well, I think I first really had hands

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-on Pro Tools.

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It wasn't until probably six.

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Yeah, that's about the time I started, I

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think.

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Yeah.

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That's where it really became like common, more

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commonplace.

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That is probably the version of Pro Tools

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that shipped with an M-Box.

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Yeah, okay, yeah, yeah, yeah.

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This is an OG original M-Box.

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I believe this would have shipped with Pro

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Tools 6.0 or 6.4. Something like

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that.

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I remember Yatesy, a guy I used to

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work with at Triple M came in.

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Mark Yates, good day, mate, if you're listening.

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No, I don't want to buy a house

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in Bondi, Yatesy.

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Thank you.

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He came in to work one day on

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a Monday, and we were just chatting and

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stuff, and he went, oh, how was your

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weekend, blah, blah, blah.

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And the convoy station basically went, oh, mate,

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I spent the weekend on Pro Tools.

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And I went, what?

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You're coming to work?

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Are you mad?

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No, no, no.

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I bought Pro Tools.

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I've got it at home.

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And that was sort of my discovery of

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the M-Box and all the rest of

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it.

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And he was like, yeah, no, I sat

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at home, and I had some headphones on,

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and I finished this promo, and I did

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this, and I did that.

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I was like, I've got to go get

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that.

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So yeah.

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I remember they had an M-Box.

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I can't remember what it was called, but

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it was literally just a USB dongle that

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plugged into the computer with a headphone jack,

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just so you could mix on the road.

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Since with those versions of Pro Tools, Pro

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00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,940
Tools LE, the license was the hardware.

276
00:09:21,360 --> 00:09:21,820
You remember that?

277
00:09:21,980 --> 00:09:22,460
That's right.

278
00:09:22,460 --> 00:09:23,520
They didn't use an iLock.

279
00:09:23,860 --> 00:09:25,300
The M-Box was the iLock.

280
00:09:25,580 --> 00:09:26,680
You plugged the M-Box in, and away

281
00:09:26,680 --> 00:09:27,020
you went.

282
00:09:27,620 --> 00:09:29,700
And that all went away with version, I

283
00:09:29,700 --> 00:09:30,760
don't remember, 10 maybe.

284
00:09:31,500 --> 00:09:33,380
Whenever iLock came out, I remember that.

285
00:09:33,680 --> 00:09:35,880
But I've heard of some people using weird

286
00:09:35,880 --> 00:09:38,440
DAWs, because it's just what comes free with

287
00:09:38,440 --> 00:09:39,940
their interface.

288
00:09:40,380 --> 00:09:42,320
Well, everybody's got a DAW these days, right?

289
00:09:42,440 --> 00:09:43,820
I mean, let's be honest.

290
00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:46,040
If it's got anything to do with the

291
00:09:46,040 --> 00:09:47,660
audio, there's a DAW attached somewhere.

292
00:09:48,460 --> 00:09:50,080
Yeah, I guess they want to have control.

293
00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,860
I mean, to me, developing new software is

294
00:09:52,860 --> 00:09:54,020
not a cheap endeavor.

295
00:09:54,340 --> 00:09:55,620
So that's what kind of blows me away,

296
00:09:55,800 --> 00:09:59,400
is that is it that accessible to find

297
00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,620
the developers and to fund and develop a

298
00:10:02,620 --> 00:10:05,540
DAW that all these companies are making it?

299
00:10:05,980 --> 00:10:07,020
Mackie even had one.

300
00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:08,800
I think it was called Traction or something

301
00:10:08,800 --> 00:10:09,380
like that.

302
00:10:09,860 --> 00:10:09,980
Wow.

303
00:10:10,280 --> 00:10:11,240
Everybody's got one.

304
00:10:11,580 --> 00:10:13,440
I use Pro Tools Studio, and there was

305
00:10:13,440 --> 00:10:15,140
a bunch of free software that came with

306
00:10:15,140 --> 00:10:16,940
that, and I finally got around to downloading

307
00:10:16,940 --> 00:10:17,760
it the other day.

308
00:10:18,820 --> 00:10:20,580
And I was putting stuff on it.

309
00:10:20,680 --> 00:10:23,520
And you've got to go to the supplier's

310
00:10:23,520 --> 00:10:25,820
website to download the software, obviously.

311
00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:27,660
And that's what struck me.

312
00:10:28,160 --> 00:10:31,000
There were these plug-in makers that I'd

313
00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:33,380
never heard of, some of them, but even

314
00:10:33,380 --> 00:10:34,380
they've got a DAW.

315
00:10:34,680 --> 00:10:36,080
Download such and such.

316
00:10:37,420 --> 00:10:38,280
No, thank you.

317
00:10:38,360 --> 00:10:38,760
I'm right.

318
00:10:39,460 --> 00:10:39,740
Thank you.

319
00:10:39,840 --> 00:10:42,420
I've got Audacity, I've got Audition, and I've

320
00:10:42,420 --> 00:10:42,920
got Pro Tools.

321
00:10:43,060 --> 00:10:44,700
I think that's probably got me covered.

322
00:10:44,820 --> 00:10:45,340
Thank you, though.

323
00:10:45,340 --> 00:10:47,640
Yeah, Akon Digital is one of those, too.

324
00:10:47,740 --> 00:10:51,160
Akon makes noise reduction stuff like RX, and

325
00:10:51,160 --> 00:10:52,300
they have a DAW, too.

326
00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:53,820
And it's actually pretty good.

327
00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:55,000
I mean, it's an editor.

328
00:10:55,520 --> 00:10:57,820
It's really a Twisted Wave or a Wave

329
00:10:57,820 --> 00:10:58,840
Lab competitor.

330
00:10:59,460 --> 00:11:01,720
But I've got to say it's pretty good,

331
00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:02,920
but it's ugly.

332
00:11:03,200 --> 00:11:04,660
It's all, like, yellow and black.

333
00:11:05,020 --> 00:11:07,740
Oh, yeah, that's got to be anything unless

334
00:11:07,740 --> 00:11:08,360
you're a bee.

335
00:11:09,740 --> 00:11:10,040
Exactly.

336
00:11:11,700 --> 00:11:14,840
But RØDE have actually got an editor as

337
00:11:14,840 --> 00:11:15,400
well, haven't they?

338
00:11:15,540 --> 00:11:18,000
Doesn't that come with the DSP on their

339
00:11:18,000 --> 00:11:20,580
USB mics?

340
00:11:21,560 --> 00:11:23,340
Oh, I don't know if they have an

341
00:11:23,340 --> 00:11:23,460
editor.

342
00:11:23,680 --> 00:11:24,040
I haven't looked at that.

343
00:11:24,680 --> 00:11:25,360
I haven't seen an editor.

344
00:11:25,360 --> 00:11:26,380
They've got a console.

345
00:11:26,900 --> 00:11:29,760
Oh, well, I have two apps from RØDE

346
00:11:29,760 --> 00:11:30,580
on my dock here.

347
00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:33,460
I've got RØDE Central and I have RØDE

348
00:11:33,460 --> 00:11:34,000
Connect.

349
00:11:34,720 --> 00:11:38,680
And RØDE Connect, I think, is the recorder

350
00:11:38,680 --> 00:11:41,840
app that they make for producing, like, a

351
00:11:41,840 --> 00:11:42,220
podcast.

352
00:11:42,740 --> 00:11:43,580
Yeah, that's it, RØDE Connect.

353
00:11:44,700 --> 00:11:46,480
And saying, hey, there's a new version.

354
00:11:46,760 --> 00:11:47,500
Like, I'll do that later.

355
00:11:48,180 --> 00:11:50,480
Yeah, RØDE Connect, it's kind of intended to

356
00:11:50,480 --> 00:11:53,940
be like a software replacement for a RØDECaster

357
00:11:53,940 --> 00:11:56,000
that works with their mics.

358
00:11:56,200 --> 00:11:56,600
Yeah, yeah.

359
00:11:56,700 --> 00:11:59,080
So it's got the little sound effect buttons.

360
00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:01,320
I don't think you're going to hear that,

361
00:12:01,400 --> 00:12:03,320
but it's got sound effect buttons.

362
00:12:03,320 --> 00:12:04,500
I thought that was me for a second.

363
00:12:05,380 --> 00:12:09,460
It can connect with wireless RØDE mics.

364
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,520
It's pretty slick, right?

365
00:12:12,140 --> 00:12:13,640
And it has a record function.

366
00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:15,260
But in terms of a DAW, I don't

367
00:12:15,260 --> 00:12:16,300
think I would call it a DAW.

368
00:12:16,400 --> 00:12:19,220
It seems much too simplistic to be a

369
00:12:19,220 --> 00:12:19,340
DAW.

370
00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:23,480
But that seems like an inevitability based on

371
00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:25,500
what we're seeing, is that RØDE will have

372
00:12:25,500 --> 00:12:26,840
a DAW at some point.

373
00:12:26,860 --> 00:12:27,620
Oh, for sure.

374
00:12:27,720 --> 00:12:28,440
For sure they will.

375
00:12:28,860 --> 00:12:30,180
Okay, here's a question for you, George.

376
00:12:30,180 --> 00:12:33,940
What's the weirdest recorder or DAW, editor, whatever

377
00:12:33,940 --> 00:12:35,700
you want to call it, you've ever come

378
00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:36,080
across?

379
00:12:37,140 --> 00:12:39,040
Well, there's two categories.

380
00:12:39,160 --> 00:12:41,280
One of them is using software that's not

381
00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,100
for audio production as an audio tool.

382
00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:46,920
So for that, I would say Final Cut.

383
00:12:48,920 --> 00:12:50,520
I've had a few folks say they use

384
00:12:50,520 --> 00:12:52,100
Final Cut for audio.

385
00:12:52,240 --> 00:12:52,780
To do audio.

386
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:53,480
Yeah.

387
00:12:53,880 --> 00:12:57,680
And those that do usually have a good

388
00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:58,520
reason for it.

389
00:12:58,520 --> 00:13:02,280
It's that they came from video editing, and

390
00:13:02,280 --> 00:13:04,400
so they already knew how to use it.

391
00:13:05,240 --> 00:13:07,760
I had somebody recently say that there's a

392
00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:12,540
module in Final Cut for voiceover record that's

393
00:13:12,540 --> 00:13:15,380
actually a really good voiceover editing or a

394
00:13:15,380 --> 00:13:18,620
voice editing tool that comes bundled in Final

395
00:13:18,620 --> 00:13:18,960
Cut.

396
00:13:19,460 --> 00:13:20,520
I'm like, that's obscure.

397
00:13:20,820 --> 00:13:22,760
But they said, well, it breaks down.

398
00:13:22,940 --> 00:13:24,480
It makes it really easy to keep track

399
00:13:24,480 --> 00:13:28,360
of clips and organize your clips and it

400
00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,240
makes it easier to record an audio book.

401
00:13:31,520 --> 00:13:33,000
And I'm like, that is obscure.

402
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:34,420
That's weird.

403
00:13:34,820 --> 00:13:36,340
But using an audio book in Final Cut,

404
00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:36,960
that's different.

405
00:13:37,680 --> 00:13:39,200
To be fair, back in the day when

406
00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:42,840
you could edit video on Pro Tools, my

407
00:13:42,840 --> 00:13:45,500
wife used to do her video editing in

408
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:47,120
Pro Tools because she knew Pro Tools.

409
00:13:47,560 --> 00:13:48,340
So I suppose, you know.

410
00:13:48,460 --> 00:13:51,060
So could you just simply do cut, like

411
00:13:51,060 --> 00:13:51,960
trim head and tail?

412
00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,280
No, you could edit and paste and all

413
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:55,780
the rest of it.

414
00:13:55,780 --> 00:13:58,420
Was that called media something?

415
00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,560
I'm thinking like maybe version 9 or version

416
00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:02,540
10, they ended it.

417
00:14:02,620 --> 00:14:03,400
Then they realized.

418
00:14:03,680 --> 00:14:05,560
We could put it in another bundle and

419
00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:06,240
stick that up.

420
00:14:06,380 --> 00:14:08,680
So now you can only have one video

421
00:14:08,680 --> 00:14:11,040
per session and all that sort of stuff

422
00:14:11,040 --> 00:14:11,480
in studio.

423
00:14:11,700 --> 00:14:13,100
You've got to go to the next level

424
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:15,220
to be able to have multiple videos.

425
00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:18,240
Which is a pain in the ass, seriously.

426
00:14:18,420 --> 00:14:20,920
I mean, for me, when you're doing update

427
00:14:20,920 --> 00:14:22,720
versions and shit like that, you've now got

428
00:14:22,720 --> 00:14:24,920
to save your session as and import a

429
00:14:24,920 --> 00:14:26,060
new video into there.

430
00:14:26,220 --> 00:14:28,660
And so there's your session spread across 10

431
00:14:28,660 --> 00:14:29,920
sub-sessions.

432
00:14:30,340 --> 00:14:32,360
Well, this whole conversation kind of got triggered

433
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:35,280
because somebody just emailed me saying, Hey, you

434
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:37,200
set me all up using Adobe Audition.

435
00:14:37,900 --> 00:14:39,720
And I've got all the templates and everything

436
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:41,720
and the processing chains, whatnot.

437
00:14:42,340 --> 00:14:43,340
But now I'm using Luna.

438
00:14:44,280 --> 00:14:47,180
And so can you do all those chains

439
00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:49,660
that you made for me over in Adobe

440
00:14:49,660 --> 00:14:50,060
Audition?

441
00:14:50,140 --> 00:14:51,180
Are they going to work in Luna?

442
00:14:51,180 --> 00:14:53,420
And if not, can you make me processing

443
00:14:53,420 --> 00:14:54,320
for Luna?

444
00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:57,260
And that's kind of triggered this conversation because

445
00:14:57,260 --> 00:14:58,080
I was like, Luna?

446
00:14:58,640 --> 00:15:00,120
Well, I could.

447
00:15:00,800 --> 00:15:03,460
But sometimes when somebody asks me that, I

448
00:15:03,460 --> 00:15:05,440
always ask you why exactly.

449
00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:07,940
I'm like, just because you can doesn't mean

450
00:15:07,940 --> 00:15:08,600
you should.

451
00:15:08,940 --> 00:15:09,840
Are you doing it?

452
00:15:09,960 --> 00:15:11,640
I mean, some people, frankly, will do it

453
00:15:11,640 --> 00:15:13,620
because it literally is free.

454
00:15:13,980 --> 00:15:15,980
There is definitely a contingent out there who

455
00:15:15,980 --> 00:15:19,820
will not use Adobe Audition simply on principle.

456
00:15:19,820 --> 00:15:22,260
They refuse to pay the subscription.

457
00:15:22,520 --> 00:15:24,340
They don't want to do it, and they're

458
00:15:24,340 --> 00:15:26,220
going to use anything else they can find

459
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:29,240
so they don't have to use Adobe Audition

460
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:30,160
or pay a subscription.

461
00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:33,740
And that is what drives people to use

462
00:15:33,740 --> 00:15:37,600
Reaper because it's a one-time buy, and

463
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:38,340
it's very cheap.

464
00:15:39,100 --> 00:15:41,900
That drives people to use Luna, and it

465
00:15:41,900 --> 00:15:43,880
drives people to use alternatives that are free

466
00:15:43,880 --> 00:15:46,120
or that come free with their hardware.

467
00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:49,920
Guys, I mean, if you really are making

468
00:15:49,920 --> 00:15:52,160
a living, first of all, use the tool

469
00:15:52,160 --> 00:15:54,260
you really know and have trained on and

470
00:15:54,260 --> 00:15:55,580
have gotten really good at.

471
00:15:55,980 --> 00:15:57,980
Don't keep trying new stuff all the time.

472
00:15:59,140 --> 00:16:01,040
And second of all, Luna is a music

473
00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:01,920
production tool.

474
00:16:02,680 --> 00:16:05,320
So I'm sure someone's going to show me

475
00:16:05,320 --> 00:16:07,500
one of these days why it's so amazing

476
00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:09,840
for voiceover recording and editing.

477
00:16:09,980 --> 00:16:11,160
I'm sure it's going to happen.

478
00:16:11,160 --> 00:16:12,840
It's funny you should bring this up because

479
00:16:12,840 --> 00:16:14,300
I did a video the other day for

480
00:16:14,300 --> 00:16:18,120
the Just Ask Robbo YouTube page, and I

481
00:16:18,120 --> 00:16:20,860
challenged myself to make a podcast opener in

482
00:16:20,860 --> 00:16:22,980
Audacity because I kind of figured, well, you

483
00:16:22,980 --> 00:16:25,080
know, podcasters want to know how to make

484
00:16:25,080 --> 00:16:26,880
their own or anything, and the door of

485
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:28,200
choice is mostly Audacity.

486
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:29,620
Now, I'll be honest.

487
00:16:29,700 --> 00:16:31,760
I know my way around Audacity, but I've

488
00:16:31,760 --> 00:16:33,360
never used it to make something.

489
00:16:33,620 --> 00:16:33,720
Sure.

490
00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:36,440
It was an interesting process.

491
00:16:36,600 --> 00:16:37,340
It went really well.

492
00:16:37,920 --> 00:16:39,800
It came together really nicely.

493
00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:40,560
It works.

494
00:16:41,220 --> 00:16:43,120
But the interesting thing was, you know, every

495
00:16:43,120 --> 00:16:45,700
sort of four or five key things, there's

496
00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:47,460
a thunk, because I'm trying to give it

497
00:16:47,460 --> 00:16:49,340
Pro Tools commands, and it's like, hang on,

498
00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:50,180
what do you mean?

499
00:16:50,360 --> 00:16:52,220
It's like, oh, yeah, sorry, yeah, right, that

500
00:16:52,220 --> 00:16:52,400
one.

501
00:16:53,060 --> 00:16:54,720
And zooming out when you should be zooming

502
00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:56,600
in and all the usual stuff with learning

503
00:16:56,600 --> 00:16:57,080
a new door.

504
00:16:57,420 --> 00:16:59,320
I mean, I can understand why people might

505
00:16:59,320 --> 00:17:01,340
take up a new door because they just

506
00:17:01,340 --> 00:17:02,100
want to experiment.

507
00:17:02,340 --> 00:17:03,200
But I think you're right.

508
00:17:03,200 --> 00:17:05,560
I think if you're making your living off

509
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:09,040
a piece of software and there's no clear

510
00:17:09,040 --> 00:17:12,319
reason why, I mean, because some of these

511
00:17:12,319 --> 00:17:14,599
things, you know, you can come across all

512
00:17:14,599 --> 00:17:19,180
sorts of weird little sort of intricacies within

513
00:17:19,180 --> 00:17:20,880
the software that happen that you sort of

514
00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:22,380
you've got to learn along the way, and,

515
00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:24,119
you know, you make all those rookie mistakes,

516
00:17:24,240 --> 00:17:26,339
make all those rookie mistakes all over again.

517
00:17:26,619 --> 00:17:26,760
Yeah.

518
00:17:27,220 --> 00:17:29,140
It's funny, I just had an interview with

519
00:17:29,140 --> 00:17:30,700
Keith Urban, and he was talking about playing

520
00:17:30,700 --> 00:17:33,320
a guitar, and he's a friend of John

521
00:17:33,320 --> 00:17:35,920
Mayer, and John Mayer, he quoted John Mayer,

522
00:17:35,960 --> 00:17:38,140
because John Mayer said, you know, it's really

523
00:17:38,140 --> 00:17:40,100
interesting when you listen to a guitar solo,

524
00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:43,760
you can tell which guy knows that guitar

525
00:17:43,760 --> 00:17:46,240
inside out, you can just hear it, because

526
00:17:46,240 --> 00:17:48,000
they've lived with each other for so long.

527
00:17:48,920 --> 00:17:50,500
And it's the same with any of the

528
00:17:50,500 --> 00:17:51,140
tools you use.

529
00:17:51,280 --> 00:17:53,120
The longer you, you know, you're married to

530
00:17:53,120 --> 00:17:54,420
that tool, the better you're going to be

531
00:17:54,420 --> 00:17:55,140
with that tool.

532
00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:57,600
I'm married to a tool.

533
00:18:02,260 --> 00:18:03,780
Sorry, tonight, I love you.

534
00:18:05,760 --> 00:18:07,180
It starts with a T anyway.

535
00:18:07,500 --> 00:18:08,120
Yeah, that's right.

536
00:18:09,020 --> 00:18:10,440
I mean, in my opinion, you would have

537
00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:12,480
to be a John Mayer to maybe hear

538
00:18:12,480 --> 00:18:12,860
that.

539
00:18:13,140 --> 00:18:15,340
I don't know, like, who really hears that,

540
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:17,540
you know, a true guitar player, artist will

541
00:18:17,540 --> 00:18:18,700
pick up on that stuff.

542
00:18:19,320 --> 00:18:20,960
But it's the same way that, like, us

543
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,280
audio engineers pick up on really subtle things

544
00:18:24,280 --> 00:18:26,160
that we key off on or get hung

545
00:18:26,160 --> 00:18:30,120
up on or, you know, Yeah, it's that

546
00:18:30,120 --> 00:18:33,180
intricate knowledge of something that, you know, and

547
00:18:33,180 --> 00:18:35,240
I guess for a guitarist, you know how

548
00:18:35,240 --> 00:18:38,060
the guitar you like feels in your hand

549
00:18:38,060 --> 00:18:40,780
and you know, you know, what the fretboard

550
00:18:40,780 --> 00:18:43,400
feels like and you know, you know, the

551
00:18:43,400 --> 00:18:44,860
balance of it and all that stuff.

552
00:18:44,920 --> 00:18:46,840
And when you pick up a different one,

553
00:18:46,880 --> 00:18:48,040
you sort of go, oh, hang on, this

554
00:18:48,040 --> 00:18:48,640
feels weird.

555
00:18:49,640 --> 00:18:51,560
You know, or you, as a voiceover artist,

556
00:18:51,660 --> 00:18:52,760
you buy a new microphone.

557
00:18:52,860 --> 00:18:54,260
And for those first couple of sessions, you're

558
00:18:54,260 --> 00:18:56,340
going, what's that that I'm hearing?

559
00:18:56,340 --> 00:19:00,100
Yeah, so what's the thing about, like, does

560
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:00,800
this sound okay?

561
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:02,640
Or is it, what am I actually hearing

562
00:19:02,640 --> 00:19:02,940
now?

563
00:19:03,020 --> 00:19:04,060
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.

564
00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:05,300
Should I be trusting my headphones?

565
00:19:05,900 --> 00:19:07,920
Yeah, do I trust myself that this is

566
00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:08,420
sounding okay?

567
00:19:08,520 --> 00:19:09,460
Yeah, exactly.

568
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:10,400
And I think that's the thing.

569
00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:11,700
I mean, when you're doing it day in

570
00:19:11,700 --> 00:19:13,040
and day out, you just get that sort

571
00:19:13,040 --> 00:19:15,480
of deep-seated knowledge.

572
00:19:15,600 --> 00:19:19,960
I mean, it's like the classic line in

573
00:19:19,960 --> 00:19:23,400
Taken, that movie, where Liam Neeson's sitting in

574
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:28,320
his French mate's apartment and he's, you know,

575
00:19:28,420 --> 00:19:30,120
he stands up and he's about to shoot

576
00:19:30,120 --> 00:19:32,320
Liam Neeson and Liam Neeson, you know, basically

577
00:19:32,320 --> 00:19:33,560
says, you know, shoot me.

578
00:19:33,660 --> 00:19:35,180
And it's like he pulls the trigger and

579
00:19:35,180 --> 00:19:37,240
there's no bullets in his gun because, you

580
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:39,220
know, he's been sitting behind a desk for

581
00:19:39,220 --> 00:19:41,480
so long now, he doesn't remember the weight

582
00:19:41,480 --> 00:19:43,100
of a loaded gun compared to the weight

583
00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:43,980
of an unloaded gun.

584
00:19:44,420 --> 00:19:46,460
Liam Neeson, all that sort of stuff.

585
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:48,220
And it's the same sort of thing, you

586
00:19:48,220 --> 00:19:48,760
know, I suppose.

587
00:19:48,760 --> 00:19:51,180
Well, it's interesting because, you know, because I

588
00:19:51,180 --> 00:19:52,940
do a lot of promo stuff as well,

589
00:19:54,340 --> 00:19:56,200
the majority of the work, because it is

590
00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:57,980
promo, is on the 416.

591
00:19:58,740 --> 00:20:00,780
Or I should say 416, now that's become

592
00:20:00,780 --> 00:20:02,440
part of the vernacular of this industry.

593
00:20:02,500 --> 00:20:02,680
And the 818.

594
00:20:04,780 --> 00:20:06,100
The 818, yes.

595
00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:10,220
So anyway, I used the OC 818 yesterday

596
00:20:10,220 --> 00:20:11,440
for a session.

597
00:20:11,780 --> 00:20:13,120
And it's funny because when I use it

598
00:20:13,120 --> 00:20:15,540
for, like, if I'm doing something like an

599
00:20:15,540 --> 00:20:18,900
ad or whatever, or something long form, you've

600
00:20:18,900 --> 00:20:19,940
always got that little bit of doubt.

601
00:20:20,060 --> 00:20:21,480
It's like, oh, I've set the levels properly

602
00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:22,740
because I haven't used this for a while,

603
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:23,880
you know.

604
00:20:24,220 --> 00:20:26,560
Yeah, that can slow you really down.

605
00:20:26,780 --> 00:20:32,680
If you're always seeking, I don't know, some

606
00:20:32,680 --> 00:20:34,400
of us do spend a lot of time

607
00:20:34,400 --> 00:20:37,300
seeking ways to save a lot of time.

608
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:38,040
Yeah.

609
00:20:40,740 --> 00:20:42,780
So it's like, yeah, I've been there and

610
00:20:42,780 --> 00:20:46,760
done that with CRM, customer retention management, whatever

611
00:20:46,760 --> 00:20:49,720
the hell it's called, relationship management softwares, and

612
00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:53,100
just you name it, on and on.

613
00:20:53,200 --> 00:20:55,060
And I'm like, my God, how much time

614
00:20:55,060 --> 00:20:57,680
did I spend trying to figure out ways

615
00:20:57,680 --> 00:20:58,680
to be more productive?

616
00:21:00,340 --> 00:21:01,640
It doesn't will out.

617
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:06,760
That's why Twisted Wave sticks around year after

618
00:21:06,760 --> 00:21:09,720
year after year, is he's never trying to

619
00:21:09,720 --> 00:21:10,480
reinvent the wheel.

620
00:21:10,880 --> 00:21:12,880
He's not trying to make anything revolutionary.

621
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:16,320
He just adds in useful things little by

622
00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:17,440
little, drop by drop.

623
00:21:17,540 --> 00:21:19,660
And I think it's the way these new

624
00:21:19,660 --> 00:21:22,700
features are dripped in, like a drip feed,

625
00:21:22,840 --> 00:21:23,160
you know.

626
00:21:23,700 --> 00:21:25,340
It's like you get time to learn what

627
00:21:25,340 --> 00:21:27,900
they do, and you get time to internalize

628
00:21:27,900 --> 00:21:29,980
them, or you get time to decide whether

629
00:21:29,980 --> 00:21:31,400
you need them or not, right?

630
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,520
But when there's like, everything's new, we did

631
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:36,400
a whole new user interface, and we can

632
00:21:36,400 --> 00:21:38,700
do these 70 new features, it's like, who

633
00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:40,640
the heck is going to internalize and learn

634
00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:43,040
all those new things in one shot?

635
00:21:43,480 --> 00:21:44,420
It's overwhelming.

636
00:21:44,880 --> 00:21:46,780
Yeah, something over the years that you learn

637
00:21:46,780 --> 00:21:49,160
over time and get nuanced.

638
00:21:50,100 --> 00:21:52,380
And then there's also the idea, I've heard

639
00:21:52,380 --> 00:21:53,940
people say, well, I want to try something

640
00:21:53,940 --> 00:21:55,380
different because I can't do this.

641
00:21:55,380 --> 00:21:57,800
Like, I interviewed somebody today, and she said,

642
00:21:58,120 --> 00:22:00,480
well, I record everything in Twisted Wave, and

643
00:22:00,480 --> 00:22:01,220
da-da-da-da-da.

644
00:22:01,380 --> 00:22:03,940
And then I go into Adobe Audition, and

645
00:22:03,940 --> 00:22:05,000
I use the compressor.

646
00:22:05,260 --> 00:22:07,560
It's called Simple or Single Channel Compressor.

647
00:22:07,820 --> 00:22:09,160
And I just use a little bit of

648
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:11,560
compression, and I'm like, why do you?

649
00:22:11,720 --> 00:22:13,820
I didn't get into it because it wasn't

650
00:22:13,820 --> 00:22:16,480
germane to the interview, but I wanted to

651
00:22:16,480 --> 00:22:17,060
say why.

652
00:22:17,340 --> 00:22:18,280
And I knew why.

653
00:22:18,960 --> 00:22:22,380
And it's because in Twisted Wave, when you

654
00:22:22,380 --> 00:22:24,680
look at the plug-ins, there is not

655
00:22:24,680 --> 00:22:26,900
a plug-in in there called compressor.

656
00:22:27,880 --> 00:22:29,340
And so if you've been watching a lot

657
00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:31,920
of YouTube, and she was a younger person

658
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:35,180
who's learning through YouTube University, and she knew

659
00:22:35,180 --> 00:22:37,320
that a compressor is a good thing, and

660
00:22:37,320 --> 00:22:39,240
she looks in Twisted Wave and looks at

661
00:22:39,240 --> 00:22:42,160
the effects, and there's nothing in there called

662
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:42,760
compressor.

663
00:22:43,380 --> 00:22:45,120
But then she hears there's a thing called

664
00:22:45,120 --> 00:22:47,340
a compressor in Adobe Audition, right?

665
00:22:47,340 --> 00:22:50,280
So it's like, it's what you don't know.

666
00:22:50,700 --> 00:22:52,040
You know, it's like you might think, oh,

667
00:22:52,100 --> 00:22:53,260
Twisted Wave is too simple.

668
00:22:53,640 --> 00:22:54,720
It's too basic.

669
00:22:55,260 --> 00:22:57,000
It can't possibly do everything I need it

670
00:22:57,000 --> 00:22:57,360
to do.

671
00:22:57,880 --> 00:23:00,840
And then you go seeking elsewhere for other

672
00:23:00,840 --> 00:23:01,940
tools and other systems.

673
00:23:02,100 --> 00:23:05,060
Now you've added more steps, more cost, because

674
00:23:05,060 --> 00:23:07,560
now she's paying for an audition license.

675
00:23:08,320 --> 00:23:11,080
And it's not if, I mean, I just,

676
00:23:11,200 --> 00:23:12,220
I wanted to be like, I wanted to

677
00:23:12,220 --> 00:23:12,880
reach the screen.

678
00:23:15,800 --> 00:23:19,920
Listen, there's a compressor in your Mac.

679
00:23:20,040 --> 00:23:21,020
It's already built in.

680
00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:22,420
You just don't know it's there.

681
00:23:23,100 --> 00:23:25,040
And it almost makes me harken back to

682
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,880
the Audacity conversation we had where the compressor

683
00:23:27,880 --> 00:23:31,340
just, you know, replaced the old version and

684
00:23:31,340 --> 00:23:32,360
created a whole thing.

685
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:37,760
Like, Thomas could seek out another compressor and

686
00:23:37,760 --> 00:23:40,900
make that, not replace, but supplement what's in

687
00:23:40,900 --> 00:23:41,120
there.

688
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:43,760
But because he's just using what Apple includes

689
00:23:43,760 --> 00:23:46,820
for free, and Apple, for whatever reason, doesn't

690
00:23:46,820 --> 00:23:50,120
have a compressor in their default audio units,

691
00:23:50,200 --> 00:23:51,980
then there's no compressor.

692
00:23:52,140 --> 00:23:54,120
But there's the Dynamics processor in that.

693
00:23:54,580 --> 00:23:55,380
That's a compressor.

694
00:23:55,980 --> 00:23:57,000
Which is a compressor.

695
00:23:57,100 --> 00:23:58,540
Yeah, it's just not that intuitive.

696
00:23:59,820 --> 00:24:01,440
So, yeah, it's quirky things.

697
00:24:01,600 --> 00:24:05,140
And because I've spent so much time learning

698
00:24:05,140 --> 00:24:07,740
the quirks and features of what Twisted Wave

699
00:24:07,740 --> 00:24:09,780
does and what the audio unit's plug-ins

700
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:12,700
do, et cetera, I'm getting every last bit

701
00:24:12,700 --> 00:24:13,940
of juice out of these things.

702
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:15,840
And where a lot of people wouldn't do

703
00:24:15,840 --> 00:24:18,520
that, their first thing would be to go

704
00:24:18,520 --> 00:24:19,520
get another plug-in.

705
00:24:19,880 --> 00:24:22,620
Go buy another package, another bundle.

706
00:24:23,140 --> 00:24:25,260
You know, and just constantly seek out.

707
00:24:25,740 --> 00:24:27,920
So, I find that kind of interesting.

708
00:24:28,460 --> 00:24:31,340
I find Twisted Wave does way more than

709
00:24:31,340 --> 00:24:31,960
I ever need.

710
00:24:32,760 --> 00:24:33,460
It's a recorder.

711
00:24:33,460 --> 00:24:35,380
It's a recorder and edit, and that's it.

712
00:24:35,380 --> 00:24:35,660
Yeah.

713
00:24:35,780 --> 00:24:38,240
I mean, Audacity is almost...

714
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:39,920
Yeah, I don't need anything else.

715
00:24:40,520 --> 00:24:42,560
Audacity is overkill compared to Twisted Wave.

716
00:24:42,740 --> 00:24:42,960
Yeah.

717
00:24:43,140 --> 00:24:44,040
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

718
00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,020
Yeah, it's interesting, isn't it?

719
00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,280
Well, there you go, another free door.

720
00:24:47,460 --> 00:24:47,820
Audacity.

721
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:49,420
Yeah, yeah.

722
00:24:49,980 --> 00:24:50,700
The F word.

723
00:24:51,140 --> 00:24:51,460
Yes.

724
00:24:53,160 --> 00:24:54,380
You know what that leads to.

725
00:24:54,740 --> 00:24:55,000
Yeah.

726
00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:56,560
Out the door.

727
00:24:57,500 --> 00:24:58,480
Well, that was fun.

728
00:24:58,540 --> 00:24:58,920
Is it over?

729
00:25:00,140 --> 00:25:01,740
The Pro Audio Suite.

730
00:25:01,860 --> 00:25:03,100
With thanks to Tribus.

731
00:25:03,200 --> 00:25:04,160
And Austrian Audio.

732
00:25:04,820 --> 00:25:06,260
Recorded using Source Connect.

733
00:25:06,500 --> 00:25:08,120
Edited by Andrew Peters.

734
00:25:08,280 --> 00:25:10,300
And mixed by Vudu Radio Imaging.

735
00:25:10,380 --> 00:25:12,540
With tech support from George the Tech Whittam.

736
00:25:12,620 --> 00:25:14,620
Don't forget to subscribe to the show and

737
00:25:14,620 --> 00:25:16,840
join in the conversation on our Facebook group.

738
00:25:16,860 --> 00:25:19,000
To leave a comment, suggest a topic, or

739
00:25:19,000 --> 00:25:20,860
just say g'day, drop us a note at

740
00:25:20,860 --> 00:25:21,480
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