CC8 vs OC18: The Mic Shootout You Didn’t See Coming

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Y'all ready? Be history.

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Get started.

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Welcome.

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Hi. Hi. Hi.

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Hello, everyone. To the pro audio suite.

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These guys are professional and motivated.

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We've taken the video stars
George Wisdom, founder of Source Element,

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Robert Marshall, international audio
engineer Darren Robin Roberts, and global

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voice and repeaters.

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Thanks to tribal Austrian audio,
lighting, passion, the elements,

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George the Tech wisdom and Rob and APIs
international demos.

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To find out more about us.

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Check the Proteas
sweetcorn line up. Ready?

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Here we go.

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I'm me and welcome to another pro
audio suite.

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Thanks to tribus,
I have to get the code to arrive at 200.

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That will get you $200 off your tribus
and Austrian audio hiking passion herd.

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Speaking of which,
I've been playing around with the CCI

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probably about a year
I reckon, but I have to be.

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Has been that long, I guess.

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I think it would be. Yeah.

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It's it's been, it's been.

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You're Mike
and in like outside your control room.

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It's like you're Mike outside
the control room, isn't it?

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Yeah,
but I put it actually in the booth now.

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Oh. Is it. Yeah. Yeah.

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So I'm just playing around
with it in there because it.

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And they travel. That was recorded to.

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I've travel with it. Yeah.

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But I thought as an a just out of interest
I'm a friend playing

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with a couple of different mics.

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And then I send an email and Robert
you came back and said

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why don't you run it through the passport
video?

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Set the guy in sign.

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So I did, and I see 18
because it was there and the kit

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and just see what the difference was
and it I found it quite interesting.

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And I think George
you have a sample of my ramblings.

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That I do.

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Okay.

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This is just a quick experiment,
with the Austrian audio kit

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and the Austrian audio och 18.

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The kit is a small diaphragm pencil mic,

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and the Aussie 18 is a large diaphragm
condenser mic.

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You're currently listening
to the CC eight, the pencil mic,

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and now you're listening to the AC 18,
which is the large condenser.

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The logical do is about assist
or so away from my mouth,

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which is roughly the same distance
as I am from the pencil mic,

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which I'm going back to
now. So this is the CC eight

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and this is the O.C 18

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both running through the passport V0,
both sitting at 1:00 in gain.

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This is the Aussie 18
and this is the CC eight.

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So once again CC eight from Austrian audio

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AC 18 large diaphragm condenser.

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They are so insanely.

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Slight this very very very little.

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And I'm not even sure.

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I thought this was a little bit
more forward.

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Pretty shocked.

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Incredibly how incredibly
similar they are.

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They are. Real.

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You wouldn't know the difference there.
Totally.

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It's like

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it's like if you want to get an 18
and then travel with a car

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because it's smaller and

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maybe less fragile, you know,
because it's smaller and less fragile and.

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Yeah, and cheaper. Yeah.

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It is, what, 400 U.S.

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400 compared to 1200, I think.

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No, no, no, 18 or 8.

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20 which was the one.

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18. 18, which is oh, the 18. Oh six.

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Did you compare it to the 8818.

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That'd be interesting to, yeah.

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The 818 and the 18
that you see here in cardioid.

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They sound the.
Same. Same capsule, same everything.

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Yeah. But

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I couldn't believe how close they were.

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I mean, we've talked about this before
when we had Kurt come on on the show and

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just talk

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about the different microphones and stuff
that they had at Austrian Audio. But

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when doing that comparison
through the same preamp,

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same level, everything is the same
in the same environment.

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I could not believe how close that was.

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Well, it sure is handy having

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a single press button
that lets you switch between them, right?

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Yeah. But it'd be really funny.

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If you're doing a session,

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would you like the pencil mic
or the large diaphragm condenser?

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Right. My sound exactly.

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Wouldn't know the difference.

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That's pretty amazing I yeah, I
it just shows how the voicing of the mic

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is, is a subjective tasteful choice
or tastes.

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It's some of these taste
and then when they design and tune

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the mics, that person's taste
is what they're going for.

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And yeah, they're like,
we want them to be consistent.

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From my to my mic.

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And you know, they're not trying to get
different characters from their mics

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and they're not trying to have
a vintage tone or whatever.

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Doesn't mean they may not someday

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come out with something
that's voiced differently or.

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But the goals of these mics is to achieve
their their I say signature sound, right?

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Yeah, it.

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Was interesting
doing some reading yesterday

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because I just had a look
at a couple of articles.

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One was Sound on Sound,

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when the kit came out
and they were reviewing it, and the guy

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who was doing the review also dragged out
a couple of 4 or 5 ones, the.

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Classic pencil mics that we've used over
the last 30 or 40 years.

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And he also had the Neumann, which is a
is that the committee for is that right?

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So the came 84 is the original one
which is a little bit noisier,

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but everyone likes it because it's
a little bit smoother on the top.

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And the cam 184 is the newer one that's

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got a little bit more top end but quieter.

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And they also had an enjoyable capsule
series, the one hundreds.

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Well that's the 100 series. Yeah.

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And then get the 130
and the one you know whatever.

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Yeah we had those at Virginia Tech.

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It was they were pretty sweet. Yeah.

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So what did they say
when he compared them.

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He sort of the article
kind of infer that the CC gate set

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somewhere between the 451 and the 84.

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Well the one I before, I can't remember
which one was because I thought

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you know what they've done
when they got the four,

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five ones, it was a inherent
harshness in the top end.

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Which people

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didn't really like very much obviously
because it was quite brittle.

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So they kind of smoothed out the top end,

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and I think they may even have
a little bit more bottom end.

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I'm not sure.

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But it, it certainly makes the,
the mic very, very flat.

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Yeah.

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Yeah, I think, I think the top end,
even though insane was actually

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the whole thing about the 451 is
this was like amazing

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on like acoustic guitars
and certain things that were is

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this like had this like bright for days
kind of sound

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certainly wasn't flat but it was bright.

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Yeah, I'd say that just just my experience
with the with the CC eights as they are

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because I've got,
I got 184 and I got the CC aids and

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I think the they're more they're, I think
they're definitely strangely enough,

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I believe they're more like the 180 fours
and they're like the 4450 ones.

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And I think it's
because they own the whole thing up.

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And also the other thing we always talk
about is like,

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if hearing on the way
in, as opposed to e cueing in post.

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Yeah. Like
if your mic is inherently brittle

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going

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in, then you're going to have a job
to sort that out once you,

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you know, sort of, doing a cueing
and stuff like that, I would imagine.

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Yeah. Yeah.

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So the CC has high pass
filters on the body, correct?

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Yes it does.

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So it has.

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An iPad doesn't it.

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Yeah. Yeah. Yeah.

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It's got a ten of the 20 DB.

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It's the same as the 451 I'll say it.

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Same thing.

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And then and the Neumann has nothing.

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It's not really versatile.

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Like it can handle 156 decibel max SPL.

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It's literally there's only one spec
and that would be in any way

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looked down upon.

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And it shouldn't really be
because it's the same spec as the 41 six.

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And that's the self noise.

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It's rated at 16 db SPL a weighted.

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Yeah, because it's because it's small.

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Yeah right.

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And the 18 is rated at eight
DB a weighted.

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So I mean if you're going to look at them
under a microscope you know

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really look at them
you're getting oh okay.

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There's
a little bit more noise in the case.

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But it's certainly not enough to be.

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But nothing compared to your last
episode's room noise

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right. Yes.

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Very true.

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Exactly
true. Yeah. Yeah, it's such a cool mic.

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And I'm wondering,
I have tried it in the tribals,

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so I think I did a file ages ago
with it, but,

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I think it's going to be a really cool
thing, certainly to travel with

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if you want to keep that signature
sound of an

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I see if that's
what you've got in your studio. Yeah.

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Taking the CC eight with you.

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So I think it's a no brainer really.

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It's it's it's clean enough.

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Absolutely clean enough.

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It says it's also a handmade capsule.

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Oh. And the difference in sensitivity
will die out as well,

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because you'll notice.

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Do you notice you see A18
or the 18 was a little bit lower in gain.

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Yeah.

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It's at 13 millivolts per. Is that Pascal.

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That's what they measure the sensor. Yeah.

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And then the the CC it is 15.

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So it's 2 to 2 more,

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two more pascals.

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That's it, that's it.

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That's it. Forget it. Yeah, yeah.

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Now, do you think that's also,

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related to the size of the capsule
that a large cap.

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Typically, typically the smaller capsules

200
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are harder to make lower noise
because they're, you're trying to get.

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I mean, the sensitivity part of it,
the sensitivity rating,

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is that directly related
to the self noise?

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I honestly don't know, like like
you'd have to go

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to get one of our mic experts
back on the line.

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Yeah,
because you can see how a large diaphragm

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might be more sensitive because it's
got more surface area to picked up,

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but then it's definitely has more mass to
to move, right.

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In this case the CC eight
is more sensitive and more soft noise.

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The to make might be coming in
and makes sense.

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Yeah, but the small diaphragm
mikes are more accurate.

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00:09:41,747 --> 00:09:43,916
Is that correct
than a large diaphragm? Yes.

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00:09:43,916 --> 00:09:48,713
The large diaphragm has more resonance
issues within the diaphragm itself.

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00:09:49,422 --> 00:09:52,425
So your theoretical best diaphragm

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gets tiny because then it's

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just fitting, like one column of air.

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It's you know, it's not there's
no resonant issues and things like that.

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00:10:04,103 --> 00:10:05,438
There's there's a lot of tuning them.

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That's that's why my lab tries
to go with the, rectangular diaphragms.

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There's another my company.
I know who it is.

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I made a triangular diaphragm,
and they're all trying

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to, like, deal with resonances.

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And when they. Tension. Yeah.

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Some of the lavalier
have a square diaphragm, don't they.

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Yeah. What's that company that has that.

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I've seen those.

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Taken. Not seconds.

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It's taken I don't know. Could be
I don't know enough.

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But yeah I've seen them.

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They look like a little plastic
black square.

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But you see the white diaphragm in there
or whatever it is.

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Yeah. It's fascinating.

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But yeah.

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Like like you look at earthworks,
microphones and the, the diaphragms

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are like half the size or even less
because of the nature of a circle.

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They're tiny, tiny, tiny.

236
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But then they're noisy.

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And I can hear the difference
when I, when I listen to my.

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I got the earthworks.

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QC eight or Q QC

240
00:10:57,448 --> 00:11:00,493
32 or QC QC 30.

241
00:11:01,118 --> 00:11:01,994
Yeah.

242
00:11:01,994 --> 00:11:04,747
It's like this
Omni that's you know flat within.

243
00:11:04,747 --> 00:11:07,291
A DB from top to bottom. Right.

244
00:11:07,291 --> 00:11:10,544
Yeah. But you can hear it noise.

245
00:11:10,544 --> 00:11:12,129
So it's great. It's really good.

246
00:11:12,129 --> 00:11:15,841
Loud stuff
takes high decibels real really flat.

247
00:11:15,841 --> 00:11:16,634
But yeah you.

248
00:11:16,634 --> 00:11:20,471
Know I had that earthworks
ethos that was there like answered on an.

249
00:11:20,763 --> 00:11:21,263
So yeah.

250
00:11:21,263 --> 00:11:24,266
And that's still a really small
diaphragm Mike.

251
00:11:24,350 --> 00:11:26,435
And it is they did a really good job

252
00:11:26,435 --> 00:11:29,438
controlling the soft noise,
but it was definitely noticeable.

253
00:11:29,480 --> 00:11:32,483
And my understanding
is actually doing a redesign on that.

254
00:11:32,483 --> 00:11:35,569
Mike, I sent my own back in
because I had an issue.

255
00:11:36,153 --> 00:11:39,156
And so they're
they're doing some rework on it.

256
00:11:39,490 --> 00:11:41,784
But yeah, that's a really thing.

257
00:11:41,784 --> 00:11:44,787
Difficult thing to get
is that get that quiet.

258
00:11:44,787 --> 00:11:47,707
It takes a tremendous
amount of refinement, I guess.

259
00:11:47,707 --> 00:11:51,043
And I try, I,
I will have no problem recommending

260
00:11:51,085 --> 00:11:54,880
cos if someone's like thinking of,
I mean, because, a lot of people

261
00:11:54,880 --> 00:11:58,384
have been liking the really inexpensive,
cost,

262
00:11:58,384 --> 00:12:01,387
audio Technica 875R

263
00:12:01,554 --> 00:12:04,974
and for just a little more than twice
the price of that,

264
00:12:04,974 --> 00:12:08,227
this CCI seems like a, a really good
choice.

265
00:12:08,227 --> 00:12:09,228
Like.

266
00:12:09,228 --> 00:12:12,398
And the thing is, a lot of people
will bring a shotgun like, on the road

267
00:12:12,398 --> 00:12:15,401
because they think it will
inherently pick up less

268
00:12:16,193 --> 00:12:18,404
ambient noise.

269
00:12:18,404 --> 00:12:21,240
But that's not always
really the case with it.

270
00:12:21,240 --> 00:12:21,490
They won't.

271
00:12:21,490 --> 00:12:25,536
Pick up less ambient noise,
but it might pick up less room reflections

272
00:12:25,536 --> 00:12:27,580
because you can. Kind of pick up
this reflection point.

273
00:12:27,580 --> 00:12:31,125
At where you want,
an ambient noise tends to be,

274
00:12:31,876 --> 00:12:34,545
I mean, not totally, but it's a little bit
more omnidirectional.

275
00:12:34,545 --> 00:12:36,756
Right in the room.

276
00:12:36,756 --> 00:12:38,924
Obviously, if you point it
right at the air conditioner.

277
00:12:38,924 --> 00:12:39,633
Well, yeah.

278
00:12:39,633 --> 00:12:43,679
If you have a humming refrigerator,
it doesn't matter where you point

279
00:12:43,679 --> 00:12:46,474
the shotgun, like everywhere.
It's still going to hear the rumble.

280
00:12:46,474 --> 00:12:47,516
It's there. Yeah.

281
00:12:47,516 --> 00:12:49,602
So it doesn't matter
at the end of the day.

282
00:12:49,602 --> 00:12:50,478
And, you know, then the other thing

283
00:12:50,478 --> 00:12:52,688
people have to remember
is get close to your mic.

284
00:12:52,688 --> 00:12:57,026
You have the, you know,
the proximity effect to counteract, maybe.

285
00:12:57,526 --> 00:12:58,903
But you get close to that mic.

286
00:12:58,903 --> 00:13:02,364
There's your signal,
your mouth to the noise, everything else.

287
00:13:02,782 --> 00:13:05,326
You get close to the mic,
you're going to improve that ratio.

288
00:13:05,326 --> 00:13:05,743
Yeah.

289
00:13:05,743 --> 00:13:09,622
So that's that's a really,
really cheap way to counteract

290
00:13:09,622 --> 00:13:13,209
noisier environments
and less than ideal acoustics.

291
00:13:13,209 --> 00:13:17,379
It just means that you as a voice
actor have to be much more controlled.

292
00:13:17,963 --> 00:13:22,510
You have to be much more disciplined
about the placement as you get closer,

293
00:13:22,551 --> 00:13:27,515
obviously movements in your face
and your mouth falls are more audible.

294
00:13:27,515 --> 00:13:30,309
So everything is a trade off. You know?

295
00:13:30,309 --> 00:13:35,564
Farther means more natural, the more noise
or farther also more or less.

296
00:13:35,731 --> 00:13:37,733
You can be a little more
lazy in your placement.

297
00:13:37,733 --> 00:13:39,985
You can move around more,
but you get closer.

298
00:13:39,985 --> 00:13:42,988
Because and yeah,
and to and to explain why,

299
00:13:43,030 --> 00:13:46,033
if you're really close
and you move an inch

300
00:13:46,200 --> 00:13:50,412
that inch that you move sideways
as a relation to the inch

301
00:13:50,412 --> 00:13:53,999
that you away from the microphone
is a 1 to 1 relationship, right?

302
00:13:54,250 --> 00:13:55,543
If you're yeah, you know,

303
00:13:55,543 --> 00:13:58,546
if you're a two feet away or a foot away
and you move an inch,

304
00:13:58,629 --> 00:14:04,176
now that inch is only 1ft or 1in
compared to a 12 inch foot relationship.

305
00:14:04,593 --> 00:14:05,678
So the triangle, it's long.

306
00:14:05,678 --> 00:14:07,388
So it's less of a difference, right?

307
00:14:07,388 --> 00:14:08,848
It's less of a difference.

308
00:14:08,848 --> 00:14:12,268
And the other thing to consider as well,
when people travel

309
00:14:12,268 --> 00:14:16,355
and they take a shotgun,
as opposed to a pencil,

310
00:14:16,355 --> 00:14:20,943
the pencil has the diaphragm
right on the end of the mind.

311
00:14:20,943 --> 00:14:21,652
Yeah.

312
00:14:21,652 --> 00:14:23,737
Where the shotgun is halfway down
the tube.

313
00:14:23,737 --> 00:14:25,781
Halfway. It's all the way to the bottom.

314
00:14:25,781 --> 00:14:26,907
It's like coming.

315
00:14:26,907 --> 00:14:29,743
To the end of the slots at the end. The.

316
00:14:29,743 --> 00:14:31,245
So if you.

317
00:14:31,245 --> 00:14:35,374
So if you're talking about getting close
proximity to to try and,

318
00:14:35,749 --> 00:14:39,879
you know, counteract the noise,
the room is more difficult with a shotgun

319
00:14:39,879 --> 00:14:42,256
because you can't get that close
to the capsule.

320
00:14:42,256 --> 00:14:43,465
It's hard if you do.

321
00:14:43,465 --> 00:14:46,468
If you do, you're on the side of it
and then you'll sound like poop.

322
00:14:46,552 --> 00:14:49,096
Well, when I have sound mixer, I remember

323
00:14:49,096 --> 00:14:52,725
the only sound location sound like
I had for a while was a shotgun.

324
00:14:52,725 --> 00:14:56,937
Mike and I started learning that you don't
always use a shotgun mic on a boom,

325
00:14:57,563 --> 00:15:00,733
because if the ceiling is too low,
you're getting the rest

326
00:15:01,108 --> 00:15:04,987
of the ceiling off the back of the mike,
and then it actually picks up more room.

327
00:15:04,987 --> 00:15:07,823
And I was like,
what a mind blown. You know. Like.

328
00:15:07,823 --> 00:15:09,033
I don't get it, you know?

329
00:15:09,033 --> 00:15:09,909
And then I would start seeing

330
00:15:09,909 --> 00:15:13,329
that they would have a hyper
cardioid super or even a cardioid mic,

331
00:15:13,662 --> 00:15:17,708
a much smaller mic on the end of the boom
when they were doing interiors, you know.

332
00:15:17,958 --> 00:15:19,084
And the other reason they would use

333
00:15:19,084 --> 00:15:23,172
those mics is you could afford to be
a little less accurate with your aim.

334
00:15:23,589 --> 00:15:26,050
If you're on a shotgun, you gotta be dead.

335
00:15:26,050 --> 00:15:28,385
You got to be really dead
on on your placement.

336
00:15:28,385 --> 00:15:31,263
Follow the script and hit every low spot.

337
00:15:31,263 --> 00:15:33,974
Or you're just
they just sound off mic, you know?

338
00:15:33,974 --> 00:15:35,351
And then the other reason for the short

339
00:15:35,351 --> 00:15:38,646
shotguns is they don't get into the shot
like a really long shotgun.

340
00:15:39,188 --> 00:15:42,358
Sometimes you can't, you know,
if you go up to the ceiling, you hit it,

341
00:15:42,399 --> 00:15:43,776
you go too low and you're in the shot.

342
00:15:43,776 --> 00:15:45,736
So you need a shorter mic.

343
00:15:45,736 --> 00:15:48,697
But they used to
they used to use figure eights.

344
00:15:48,697 --> 00:15:51,825
If you think about it
like figure eight is a

345
00:15:52,409 --> 00:15:55,579
rejects a lot on the side
and it's all about the energy as you

346
00:15:55,579 --> 00:15:58,457
squeeze it in one direction.
Think of it like a balloon.

347
00:15:58,457 --> 00:16:01,001
If you squeeze it in one place
where that energy going to go, it's

348
00:16:01,001 --> 00:16:02,878
going to pop out the back.

349
00:16:02,878 --> 00:16:07,132
And that's that kind of lobe that you're
seeing with the hyper cardioid.

350
00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:08,133
Yeah.

351
00:16:08,133 --> 00:16:10,302
And and the cigaret.
That's what they're using

352
00:16:10,302 --> 00:16:13,305
before they came out with a good shotgun
white design.

353
00:16:13,389 --> 00:16:15,641
What was that shotgun
we looked at a couple of years ago.

354
00:16:15,641 --> 00:16:16,058
Remember.

355
00:16:16,058 --> 00:16:20,521
It was like a but a super shotgun
was location might thing.

356
00:16:21,605 --> 00:16:22,940
I did have multiple barrels.

357
00:16:22,940 --> 00:16:25,651
Yeah. Had multiple barrels
or something to remember that.

358
00:16:25,651 --> 00:16:28,529
What was that? Oh wait a minute.
Wait it was it the one that. No wait.

359
00:16:28,529 --> 00:16:29,530
Was it an array.

360
00:16:29,530 --> 00:16:31,407
Might have had like
a ton of capsules in it.

361
00:16:31,407 --> 00:16:32,658
I don't remember.

362
00:16:32,658 --> 00:16:34,660
It had an Ethernet jack on the back.

363
00:16:34,660 --> 00:16:36,453
Yeah, it was the DSP.

364
00:16:36,453 --> 00:16:39,456
Maybe it was the guys from New Zealand
or something.

365
00:16:39,832 --> 00:16:41,458
Yeah, the guys from New Zealand.

366
00:16:41,458 --> 00:16:42,710
I haven't heard anything of it.

367
00:16:42,710 --> 00:16:44,586
No it was, it was really expensive.

368
00:16:44,586 --> 00:16:46,463
I think it was like it was quick sellers.

369
00:16:46,463 --> 00:16:49,383
Yeah it was,
it was ridiculously expensive.

370
00:16:49,383 --> 00:16:49,883
Yeah.

371
00:16:49,883 --> 00:16:52,678
I. Was just trying to think
I can't find it. Yeah.

372
00:16:52,678 --> 00:16:56,223
The name is not ringing the bell either
it didn't go to market or

373
00:16:57,016 --> 00:17:00,561
it's just, you know, such a rarefied air
that people would.

374
00:17:00,936 --> 00:17:02,021
Go. To market for.

375
00:17:02,021 --> 00:17:02,563
It is small.

376
00:17:02,563 --> 00:17:06,442
Ships have a super CMI digital shotgun
microphone.

377
00:17:06,442 --> 00:17:07,109
There you go.

378
00:17:07,109 --> 00:17:09,486
It's like three grand, right? Yeah.

379
00:17:09,486 --> 00:17:11,947
It's Bluetooth so sexy.

380
00:17:11,947 --> 00:17:13,115
It doesn't that the one that has.

381
00:17:13,115 --> 00:17:13,240
Yeah.

382
00:17:13,240 --> 00:17:15,284
Don't they have one that goes
from a. Color blue.

383
00:17:15,284 --> 00:17:17,077
To a gray fade.

384
00:17:17,077 --> 00:17:20,497
It has like, This one's
sort of like an umbrella sort of color.

385
00:17:20,873 --> 00:17:23,167
Ships has the blue one. Yeah.

386
00:17:23,167 --> 00:17:25,836
Yeah. It's very nice. It's so you. Can.

387
00:17:25,836 --> 00:17:28,047
Feel extra important as a sound
mixer on set.

388
00:17:28,047 --> 00:17:29,882
Yeah. Why exactly ships.

389
00:17:29,882 --> 00:17:32,176
Check this one out. Yeah,
because everyone knows that's why.

390
00:17:32,176 --> 00:17:32,676
That's right.

391
00:17:32,676 --> 00:17:35,888
It's so funny that, like,
you know, 41 six,

392
00:17:35,888 --> 00:17:38,974
which is such a go to
microphone is actually in the world of,

393
00:17:39,683 --> 00:17:43,103
of, location sound is like,
that's the Honda Civic.

394
00:17:43,103 --> 00:17:43,687
Yeah. Yeah.

395
00:17:43,687 --> 00:17:44,772
It's, you know.

396
00:17:44,772 --> 00:17:47,566
Yeah. That's the basic.

397
00:17:47,566 --> 00:17:47,983
Yeah, yeah.

398
00:17:47,983 --> 00:17:48,400
It's it's.

399
00:17:48,400 --> 00:17:51,403
Yeah. But it but it's old trusty though.

400
00:17:51,445 --> 00:17:53,197
That's the thing. Yeah.
You know, you get like.

401
00:17:53,197 --> 00:17:57,159
Other other ones that we think of
are like the Hyundais and the Kias.

402
00:17:57,326 --> 00:17:57,951
Yeah.

403
00:17:57,951 --> 00:18:00,579
You pull it out of the bag
and you know what you're going to get.

404
00:18:00,579 --> 00:18:01,371
That's the nice. Yeah.

405
00:18:01,371 --> 00:18:03,373
I mean and.
Then you pull out the ships and it's.

406
00:18:03,373 --> 00:18:05,918
Yeah. But yeah
let them play. Yeah. That's right. Yeah.

407
00:18:05,918 --> 00:18:08,212
They're going to keep those things around
you know for a long time.

408
00:18:08,212 --> 00:18:08,712
But you'll get

409
00:18:08,712 --> 00:18:12,758
oh that's what's kind of fun about going
to the used gear stores in Hollywood.

410
00:18:12,758 --> 00:18:14,593
Like location sound.

411
00:18:14,593 --> 00:18:18,138
They'll have like a case full of 41
sixes, you know,

412
00:18:18,138 --> 00:18:21,266
and they've all just,
you know, fallen off the bottom

413
00:18:21,266 --> 00:18:24,853
of the rack, you know, like these guys
that keep upgrading, right?

414
00:18:24,853 --> 00:18:29,358
So now their their spare
mic is now the low end chips.

415
00:18:29,775 --> 00:18:31,860
Well, I've got to buy a new 416.

416
00:18:31,860 --> 00:18:34,863
My poor old girl is finally bit
in the dust.

417
00:18:35,489 --> 00:18:38,951
Is that right where the connection,
the XLR connections going all crackly

418
00:18:38,951 --> 00:18:40,536
and all that sort of stuff.

419
00:18:40,536 --> 00:18:41,620
She turned the screw on it.

420
00:18:41,620 --> 00:18:45,082
Yeah, I've tried all that
and I it's out of serviceability,

421
00:18:45,082 --> 00:18:47,000
you know, when you bring them up
and you go, can I send you this?

422
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:49,753
And they say,
can you give me that number on the bottom.

423
00:18:49,753 --> 00:18:50,587
Yeah. Blah blah.

424
00:18:50,587 --> 00:18:51,171
Nice. Yeah.

425
00:18:51,171 --> 00:18:53,966
Yeah. It's too old saying
oh really? Yeah.

426
00:18:53,966 --> 00:18:57,761
I'd like to find a map of 41 six
that is old enough

427
00:18:57,761 --> 00:19:00,430
to have like the flat side
instead of the fully round one.

428
00:19:00,430 --> 00:19:05,853
Yeah, well, mine, mine would be 25 years
old. 20.

429
00:19:05,853 --> 00:19:07,896
Look at an Mk 20.

430
00:19:07,896 --> 00:19:09,898
Look at the back of an Mk 20.

431
00:19:09,898 --> 00:19:11,942
And it's kind of like the the back of it.

432
00:19:11,942 --> 00:19:13,819
It's like a rectangle.

433
00:19:13,819 --> 00:19:15,696
And I think oh well.

434
00:19:15,696 --> 00:19:19,491
And I think that there are 41 sixes
out there that aren't the same.

435
00:19:20,117 --> 00:19:22,786
If you get the right old vintage
of 41 six.

436
00:19:22,786 --> 00:19:23,328
That's where.

437
00:19:24,329 --> 00:19:25,080
I believe, okay.

438
00:19:25,080 --> 00:19:27,374
Age 20 is one of their mics.

439
00:19:27,374 --> 00:19:29,626
Oh, it's a I used one at school.

440
00:19:29,626 --> 00:19:31,670
That's another one. It's a cardioid.

441
00:19:31,670 --> 00:19:33,463
Yeah. Flat.

442
00:19:33,463 --> 00:19:34,631
It's like Jesus.

443
00:19:34,631 --> 00:19:37,301
It just looks like a scientific
instrument.

444
00:19:37,301 --> 00:19:38,802
It's a really it's really expensive.

445
00:19:38,802 --> 00:19:40,179
And you can't find them anymore.

446
00:19:40,179 --> 00:19:43,098
But it's in the series
and it's just like a cardioid.

447
00:19:43,098 --> 00:19:47,978
It'd be used in the same situation as a,
you know, it came it came 180.

448
00:19:48,145 --> 00:19:48,645
Yeah.

449
00:19:48,645 --> 00:19:50,772
Yeah, yeah.

450
00:19:50,772 --> 00:19:53,233
But yeah it's I think crazy how.

451
00:19:53,233 --> 00:19:56,236
They're still making they,
they'd still have that series

452
00:19:56,612 --> 00:19:59,865
the 2030 43 Mk 20.

453
00:19:59,865 --> 00:20:00,240
Yeah.

454
00:20:00,240 --> 00:20:01,950
Yeah they're expensive though.

455
00:20:01,950 --> 00:20:04,578
Yeah we had done a lot. More than that.

456
00:20:04,578 --> 00:20:06,830
Well yeah they make I mean think.

457
00:20:06,830 --> 00:20:09,791
About a 41 six is 800 bucks right.

458
00:20:09,791 --> 00:20:11,418
An MK is 20.

459
00:20:11,418 --> 00:20:13,378
Let me change 20 is how much like

460
00:20:14,379 --> 00:20:17,841
it's it's a lot more I think it's 50.

461
00:20:17,841 --> 00:20:23,096
I can't find them I find them cage 50
I find that MK 20 in each photo.

462
00:20:23,680 --> 00:20:25,807
But the 80 series
seems to have taken over.

463
00:20:25,807 --> 00:20:27,726
Now that's the latest tech from them.

464
00:20:27,726 --> 00:20:30,729
They're 80, 48, 58, 60.

465
00:20:30,854 --> 00:20:33,440
Six, 27. No longer available.

466
00:20:33,440 --> 00:20:35,984
The site address 80 series.

467
00:20:35,984 --> 00:20:38,487
It was that the 8080 or the 80.

468
00:20:38,487 --> 00:20:42,824
The Mk eight, 8040 is $1,500.

469
00:20:43,408 --> 00:20:45,911
You put one they have it's like $3,000.

470
00:20:45,911 --> 00:20:46,662
That's like yeah.

471
00:20:46,662 --> 00:20:49,665
Or multi pattern. Yeah that one's crazy.

472
00:20:49,873 --> 00:20:51,083
That's the 8080 I think.

473
00:20:51,083 --> 00:20:53,085
But the 8040 yeah.

474
00:20:53,085 --> 00:20:54,878
Is their little pencil mic.

475
00:20:54,878 --> 00:20:57,631
It's really little actually super tiny.

476
00:20:57,631 --> 00:21:00,384
But I mean is that five times

477
00:21:00,384 --> 00:21:03,470
more better than the seats
or four times better than a car.

478
00:21:04,137 --> 00:21:05,264
Now you know how it goes.

479
00:21:05,264 --> 00:21:07,266
It's always like diminishing returns.

480
00:21:07,266 --> 00:21:08,934
Like. Yeah, exactly. Hey.

481
00:21:08,934 --> 00:21:09,851
And it's also that,

482
00:21:09,851 --> 00:21:13,605
you know, you stick a badge on it
and people are happy to pay the premium

483
00:21:13,605 --> 00:21:15,023
for the badge.

484
00:21:15,023 --> 00:21:18,485
Although we were talking before
about the 45 ones and the 84.

485
00:21:18,694 --> 00:21:19,861
Right, right.

486
00:21:19,861 --> 00:21:20,404
Yeah.

487
00:21:20,404 --> 00:21:25,534
I think you can get about
at least ten, 4 or 5 ones for 184. Oh.

488
00:21:25,575 --> 00:21:28,537
The the 84 is are insane. People want like

489
00:21:29,705 --> 00:21:33,166
$5,000 for a pair
of 80 fours and you can get a pair of one.

490
00:21:33,166 --> 00:21:35,294
Is it for is for 1500 bucks.

491
00:21:35,294 --> 00:21:36,461
It's crazy. And yeah.

492
00:21:36,461 --> 00:21:39,047
And it's like,
yeah I've seen people do shootouts.

493
00:21:39,047 --> 00:21:41,300
It's like yep,
there's a little bit more noise.

494
00:21:41,300 --> 00:21:43,927
Yes, it's a little bit smoother

495
00:21:43,927 --> 00:21:46,805
and you're going to pay $3,000
more for that.

496
00:21:46,805 --> 00:21:49,516
Like that's what X are for right.

497
00:21:49,516 --> 00:21:52,477
That's yeah I mean that's
what a little bit of placement tweakers.

498
00:21:52,477 --> 00:21:55,689
And also honestly it's like sometimes

499
00:21:55,689 --> 00:21:58,692
that extra little high end is nice.

500
00:21:59,234 --> 00:21:59,943
Yeah.

501
00:21:59,943 --> 00:22:02,654
You know
you know I just realize they still me

502
00:22:02,654 --> 00:22:05,657
speaking of weird
sennheiser's have flat with flat sides.

503
00:22:06,074 --> 00:22:09,036
They still make the 441. Oh really.

504
00:22:09,161 --> 00:22:10,203
Yeah. I didn't know that.

505
00:22:10,203 --> 00:22:10,996
Oh there's so much going for.

506
00:22:10,996 --> 00:22:11,246
Yeah.

507
00:22:11,246 --> 00:22:14,374
And they, and they came out
with a new 421 thing was they.

508
00:22:14,374 --> 00:22:17,377
Made this one you dynamic super cardioid.

509
00:22:17,711 --> 00:22:20,922
This is a $1,200 dynamic microphone.

510
00:22:21,506 --> 00:22:22,090
What.

511
00:22:22,090 --> 00:22:24,843
Oh yeah. You know it's
the David Bowie mic.

512
00:22:24,843 --> 00:22:25,260
Is it.

513
00:22:25,260 --> 00:22:26,053
Is he like the.

514
00:22:26,053 --> 00:22:28,722
Lot you'd see like in the Ziggy Stardust
days?

515
00:22:28,722 --> 00:22:31,350
I think you'd see David Bowie
singing out of a 441.

516
00:22:31,350 --> 00:22:34,603
And, I think also Deborah Harry, Blondie.

517
00:22:34,603 --> 00:22:36,188
They. Right. Yeah.

518
00:22:36,188 --> 00:22:39,191
And I think also Stevie Nicks in don't

519
00:22:39,775 --> 00:22:42,069
that that thing she does
with the Tom petty, I believe.

520
00:22:42,069 --> 00:22:43,653
Stop dragging my helmet around, I think.

521
00:22:43,653 --> 00:22:45,572
Yeah, I think that might be too.

522
00:22:45,572 --> 00:22:46,656
She's it's got it.

523
00:22:46,656 --> 00:22:49,659
Switches five position, low frequency
roll off.

524
00:22:49,993 --> 00:22:50,452
I've used them.

525
00:22:50,452 --> 00:22:53,622
They're really nice, but they're a hyper
cardioid, so they have less use.

526
00:22:53,622 --> 00:22:56,833
It's a it's one of the unique hyper
cardioid dynamics there's.

527
00:22:56,833 --> 00:22:59,836
That's a rare breed for sure.

528
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:02,798
It's it's well they call it a super
I never really know

529
00:23:02,798 --> 00:23:06,009
what the exact differentiation
is between hyper and super.

530
00:23:06,009 --> 00:23:07,761
But tighter tighter pattern.

531
00:23:07,761 --> 00:23:10,847
Bigger lobe is super more hyper.

532
00:23:11,473 --> 00:23:12,224
Well, no.

533
00:23:12,224 --> 00:23:15,811
Super is about 100
and was about 110 degrees.

534
00:23:15,811 --> 00:23:18,021
And I think hype is about 105 degrees.

535
00:23:18,021 --> 00:23:20,399
Oh okay. So slightly different.

536
00:23:20,399 --> 00:23:23,235
I think I think that's roughly someone's
going to ultimately see.

537
00:23:23,235 --> 00:23:25,320
So that's an email. So yes.

538
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:28,031
So you know
you are listening to us right now.

539
00:23:28,031 --> 00:23:28,657
Yeah. Yeah.

540
00:23:28,657 --> 00:23:31,660
But if I got it right then
all of a sudden the genius which I'm at.

541
00:23:35,038 --> 00:23:35,831
It's, it's.

542
00:23:35,831 --> 00:23:36,998
Talking about the cost of mic.

543
00:23:36,998 --> 00:23:41,461
So the cost is half the cost of an 18,

544
00:23:42,712 --> 00:23:43,505
right? Yeah, yeah.

545
00:23:43,505 --> 00:23:45,215
Oh, yes, it is, it is. Right.

546
00:23:45,215 --> 00:23:48,218
And it's, remarkably good. I mean, yeah.

547
00:23:48,552 --> 00:23:51,513
But to be fair, I don't. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

548
00:23:51,513 --> 00:23:55,183
You don't get all the bells and whistles
that come with an AC 18, I suppose.

549
00:23:55,225 --> 00:23:58,186
Like it's just a list of them. Yeah.
Well nice.

550
00:23:58,186 --> 00:24:01,148
Okay. 18 is cardioid only, right.

551
00:24:01,148 --> 00:24:01,356
Yeah.

552
00:24:01,356 --> 00:24:02,899
Are we seeing the same.

553
00:24:02,899 --> 00:24:05,902
Yeah. 18 versus the eight.

554
00:24:06,361 --> 00:24:07,070
How much is the.

555
00:24:07,070 --> 00:24:09,698
How much is the eight versus
the 818. That's not that.

556
00:24:09,698 --> 00:24:12,325
That's not like
I think what are the price. Yeah.

557
00:24:12,325 --> 00:24:14,411
Like a third.
Yeah I mean that's pretty obvious.

558
00:24:14,411 --> 00:24:15,996
Oh you got no polar design here.

559
00:24:15,996 --> 00:24:18,373
You've got all the other stuff as well
and all that.

560
00:24:18,373 --> 00:24:21,418
So so that would make sense for the 818.

561
00:24:21,418 --> 00:24:23,336
I'm surprised
it's only got the one polar pattern.

562
00:24:23,336 --> 00:24:25,255
Is that right? I didn't know that.

563
00:24:25,255 --> 00:24:26,548
Yeah 18 is the super

564
00:24:27,883 --> 00:24:29,176
I yeah pitched.

565
00:24:29,176 --> 00:24:30,719
The 18 to cardioid.

566
00:24:30,719 --> 00:24:31,970
No sorry. Sorry.

567
00:24:31,970 --> 00:24:33,597
Cardioid. Yes. Yeah. Yeah.

568
00:24:33,597 --> 00:24:34,973
All right I've got the 16.

569
00:24:34,973 --> 00:24:36,641
I dragged the 16 out the other day.

570
00:24:36,641 --> 00:24:37,517
It's like wow.

571
00:24:37,517 --> 00:24:40,061
It hurt my eyes. It's so bright.

572
00:24:40,061 --> 00:24:42,564
Oh yeah. Noticeably brighter. Yeah.

573
00:24:42,564 --> 00:24:45,317
It's a little bit more crispy.

574
00:24:45,317 --> 00:24:47,527
The 16 the old the headphones.

575
00:24:47,527 --> 00:24:48,653
You know the okay 16.

576
00:24:48,653 --> 00:24:49,446
Oh no no.

577
00:24:49,446 --> 00:24:52,449
I see 16 is their entry level
large diaphragm.

578
00:24:52,657 --> 00:24:55,785
That's the
that's not handmade in Austria.

579
00:24:55,785 --> 00:24:57,412
It's the Chinese capsule.

580
00:24:57,412 --> 00:24:59,414
I believe
the capsules are made in Austria.

581
00:24:59,414 --> 00:25:02,083
But the electronics,
they're assembled in China, I see.

582
00:25:02,083 --> 00:25:03,460
Oh, so the capsule. Yeah.

583
00:25:03,460 --> 00:25:04,586
All capsules. The.

584
00:25:04,586 --> 00:25:06,379
Yeah, but it's the electronics. Yeah.

585
00:25:06,379 --> 00:25:09,382
So that that's a lot
brighter than in the 18.

586
00:25:10,175 --> 00:25:10,509
Yeah.

587
00:25:10,509 --> 00:25:13,512
It it's it's got a,
it's got a, it's a it's very.

588
00:25:13,553 --> 00:25:14,387
Yeah it's almost

589
00:25:14,387 --> 00:25:18,016
I wouldn't even say foreign key I kind of
think it's even top higher than that.

590
00:25:18,016 --> 00:25:20,477
What do you think George.
I feel like it is.

591
00:25:20,477 --> 00:25:21,353
I thought I have one

592
00:25:23,271 --> 00:25:24,606
like I feel like it's something.

593
00:25:24,606 --> 00:25:24,814
Yeah.

594
00:25:24,814 --> 00:25:26,775
It's actually I have a wav file here.

595
00:25:26,775 --> 00:25:28,610
It's called ox.

596
00:25:28,610 --> 00:25:31,613
1618 818.

597
00:25:31,905 --> 00:25:33,907
Oh they go from December 2012.

598
00:25:33,907 --> 00:25:38,036
I remember we did an episode where we shot
all those out December 2012.

599
00:25:38,203 --> 00:25:39,871
So that's a wait. Wait.

600
00:25:39,871 --> 00:25:42,666
That's a long.

601
00:25:42,666 --> 00:25:44,501
That's a long time ago.

602
00:25:44,501 --> 00:25:47,504
I was a lot older then. Yeah.

603
00:25:47,504 --> 00:25:48,463
And then I.

604
00:25:48,463 --> 00:25:50,465
Maybe it's supposed to be. 2021.

605
00:25:50,465 --> 00:25:51,216
And I.

606
00:25:51,216 --> 00:25:52,926
I'm sorry. Did I say did you.

607
00:25:52,926 --> 00:25:55,053
See it said same 20. Five is think.

608
00:25:55,053 --> 00:25:58,056
We didn't even have a show then.

609
00:25:58,723 --> 00:26:00,976
We didn't turn it back then.

610
00:26:00,976 --> 00:26:02,102
2022.

611
00:26:02,102 --> 00:26:04,980
Yeah I been I just I don't. Have
I don't have these Mark.

612
00:26:04,980 --> 00:26:07,315
They just say marker. Marker
I don't have them labeled.

613
00:26:07,315 --> 00:26:08,525
Yeah. Yeah.

614
00:26:08,525 --> 00:26:11,152
So I'll play them through.

615
00:26:11,152 --> 00:26:13,363
You guys can hear them
real quick in context.

616
00:26:13,363 --> 00:26:16,700
Here's the even better
I'm going to grab when you use the

617
00:26:17,784 --> 00:26:18,535
let's see here.

618
00:26:18,535 --> 00:26:19,286
This is the.

619
00:26:19,286 --> 00:26:22,289
And the on string audio OC 18.

620
00:26:22,414 --> 00:26:27,252
So this whole beginning part the 18
I'm sorry the that's the key.

621
00:26:27,377 --> 00:26:29,713
Then you go to the 18 right.

622
00:26:29,713 --> 00:26:32,424
So here here's that okay.

623
00:26:32,424 --> 00:26:35,552
This is just a quick experiment
with the Austrian

624
00:26:35,552 --> 00:26:38,805
audio kit and the Austrian audio.

625
00:26:38,805 --> 00:26:39,472
Okay.

626
00:26:39,472 --> 00:26:44,978
18 the CC eight is a small diaphragm
pencil mark,

627
00:26:45,395 --> 00:26:48,815
and the Aussie 18 is a large diaphragm
condenser mic.

628
00:26:49,065 --> 00:26:53,236
This is the AC 16
running through the M 101.

629
00:26:53,820 --> 00:26:56,323
Now you can hear the top end lift.

630
00:26:56,323 --> 00:26:59,034
Yeah, it's quite a significant

631
00:26:59,034 --> 00:27:03,121
This is the OC 18 running
through the Grace M 101.

632
00:27:03,580 --> 00:27:06,583
This is the OC 818

633
00:27:06,583 --> 00:27:09,586
running through the Grace M 101.

634
00:27:09,794 --> 00:27:10,629
Interesting.

635
00:27:10,629 --> 00:27:12,756
So yeah, there's 60.

636
00:27:12,756 --> 00:27:15,050
Now you get to really hear
the 16 in context.

637
00:27:15,050 --> 00:27:18,762
This is the OC 16 running
through the grace of I don't want to.

638
00:27:18,970 --> 00:27:19,846
Go crazy.

639
00:27:19,846 --> 00:27:22,515
Yeah, you'd have to smooth out the.

640
00:27:22,515 --> 00:27:25,185
This is the ships. Yeah.

641
00:27:25,185 --> 00:27:26,645
How does it compare?

642
00:27:26,645 --> 00:27:29,397
Like, this is the ship's
airline pilot microphone.

643
00:27:29,397 --> 00:27:31,733
Yeah. It's for your favorite airline.

644
00:27:31,733 --> 00:27:34,694
You ever trying to figure out what to get
your favorite airline pilot? The.

645
00:27:34,694 --> 00:27:37,489
You know,
they have everything on this headset.

646
00:27:37,489 --> 00:27:39,824
If you're like, what do I do with this?

647
00:27:39,824 --> 00:27:43,536
This is these ships
ice pick and microphone there.

648
00:27:43,536 --> 00:27:43,745
Yeah.

649
00:27:43,745 --> 00:27:48,249
So so other other hyper cardioid

650
00:27:48,249 --> 00:27:52,045
dynamics the sure be the 57 a.

651
00:27:53,505 --> 00:27:55,965
The 57 a that's a mic bay.

652
00:27:55,965 --> 00:27:57,509
The 57. Data.

653
00:27:57,509 --> 00:28:00,428
Say the the betas were hyper cardioid.

654
00:28:00,428 --> 00:28:03,056
They did a did a beta 58 tuning.

655
00:28:03,056 --> 00:28:04,265
They yes they did.

656
00:28:04,265 --> 00:28:05,558
That's also hyper.

657
00:28:05,558 --> 00:28:07,185
But it's also dynamic.

658
00:28:07,185 --> 00:28:09,145
Yeah. Those are both dynamic. Yep.

659
00:28:09,145 --> 00:28:11,856
And B the 87 B condenser.

660
00:28:11,856 --> 00:28:12,232
All right.

661
00:28:12,232 --> 00:28:13,149
That's the condenser.

662
00:28:13,149 --> 00:28:15,527
What a weird naming convention.

663
00:28:15,527 --> 00:28:18,071
Why did they have to call an 87.

664
00:28:18,071 --> 00:28:19,406
I never understood that.

665
00:28:19,406 --> 00:28:22,367
Just like with Neumann.

666
00:28:22,367 --> 00:28:23,660
Clearly came after the U.

667
00:28:23,660 --> 00:28:26,079
87, so I don't know, like.

668
00:28:26,079 --> 00:28:30,375
You know, we Mike guys are we can name
Mike simply by a two digit number usually.

669
00:28:30,375 --> 00:28:33,086
Or three digit number.
I mean. Yeah, right.

670
00:28:33,086 --> 00:28:36,673
Grab 57, gather 58,
you know, grab this and it.

671
00:28:36,673 --> 00:28:38,216
But then it's like, grab an 87.

672
00:28:38,216 --> 00:28:40,218
No no no no no no estimates. Yes.

673
00:28:40,218 --> 00:28:43,221
I mean Yeah.

674
00:28:43,346 --> 00:28:44,139
You know, but I think.

675
00:28:44,139 --> 00:28:46,516
Most people said grab an 87
then it would matter.

676
00:28:46,516 --> 00:28:47,559
It's like if you

677
00:28:47,559 --> 00:28:49,185
this is what you do,
you go to someone, you say,

678
00:28:49,185 --> 00:28:51,354
give me like an audio engineer,
give me an 87.

679
00:28:51,354 --> 00:28:54,357
If they give you a, sure
they're alive, engineer.

680
00:28:54,816 --> 00:28:56,651
They give you the
studio. Right? And there's

681
00:28:58,570 --> 00:28:58,903
the that's

682
00:28:58,903 --> 00:29:01,948
the ultimate insider audio engineer
nerd stuff.

683
00:29:01,948 --> 00:29:02,907
How do I know it?

684
00:29:02,907 --> 00:29:07,287
How do I know your live guy without having
their, ask which Mike, do your hand?

685
00:29:07,287 --> 00:29:09,914
Yes, I can 87.

686
00:29:09,914 --> 00:29:10,749
Well, that was fun.

687
00:29:10,749 --> 00:29:14,002
Is it all over the pro audio suite?

688
00:29:14,210 --> 00:29:17,005
Thanks to driver and Austrian audio.

689
00:29:17,005 --> 00:29:18,715
Recorded using Source Connect,

690
00:29:18,715 --> 00:29:21,760
edited by Andrew Peaches
and mixed by a little though.

691
00:29:21,760 --> 00:29:23,261
Got your own audio issues?

692
00:29:23,261 --> 00:29:25,805
Just ask robo. Don't call him
tech. Support him.

693
00:29:25,805 --> 00:29:26,973
You watch the tech with.

694
00:29:26,973 --> 00:29:28,808
Don't forget to subscribe to the show

695
00:29:28,808 --> 00:29:32,145
and join the conversation
on our Facebook group to leave a comment,

696
00:29:32,145 --> 00:29:35,940
suggest a topic or just say goodbye,
drop us a note at our website.

697
00:29:36,441 --> 00:29:37,734
As we discuss.