Backup With Confidence: Lessons from the National Archives

1
00:00:00,230 --> 00:00:00,910
(Transcribed by TurboScribe.ai. Go Unlimited to remove this message.) Y'all ready to be history?

2
00:00:01,090 --> 00:00:01,530
Get started.

3
00:00:01,890 --> 00:00:02,230
Welcome.

4
00:00:02,510 --> 00:00:02,610
Hi.

5
00:00:02,790 --> 00:00:02,990
Hi.

6
00:00:03,230 --> 00:00:03,590
Hi.

7
00:00:03,710 --> 00:00:04,790
Hello, everyone.

8
00:00:05,110 --> 00:00:06,570
To the Pro Audio Suite.

9
00:00:06,630 --> 00:00:08,670
These guys are professional, they're motivated.

10
00:00:08,850 --> 00:00:11,310
Thanks to Tribooth, the best vocal booth for

11
00:00:11,310 --> 00:00:13,070
home or on-the-road voice recording.

12
00:00:13,570 --> 00:00:16,630
And Austrian Audio, making passion heard.

13
00:00:16,930 --> 00:00:20,110
Introducing Robert Marshall from Source Elements and Someone

14
00:00:20,110 --> 00:00:21,690
Audio Post, Chicago.

15
00:00:21,850 --> 00:00:24,830
Darren Robbo-Robertson from Voodoo Radio Imaging, Sydney.

16
00:00:25,070 --> 00:00:26,190
Tech to the VO Stars.

17
00:00:26,330 --> 00:00:28,310
George the Tech Whittam from LA.

18
00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:31,409
And me, Andrew Peters, voiceover talent and home

19
00:00:31,409 --> 00:00:32,090
studio guy.

20
00:00:32,110 --> 00:00:33,090
Line up, man.

21
00:00:33,410 --> 00:00:33,990
Here we go.

22
00:00:35,690 --> 00:00:38,070
And welcome to another Pro Audio Suite, thanks

23
00:00:38,070 --> 00:00:39,170
to Tribooth.

24
00:00:39,250 --> 00:00:40,930
Don't forget the code, T-R-I-P

25
00:00:40,930 --> 00:00:41,890
-A-P 200.

26
00:00:42,350 --> 00:00:44,810
That will get you $200 off your Tribooth.

27
00:00:45,030 --> 00:00:47,350
And Austrian Audio, making passion heard.

28
00:00:48,070 --> 00:00:49,950
This week, we're talking archives.

29
00:00:50,350 --> 00:00:52,290
Archiving your material, very important.

30
00:00:52,630 --> 00:00:54,070
And we're joined by a couple of guests.

31
00:00:54,070 --> 00:00:56,910
We have Ben Chesterman and Craig Field from

32
00:00:56,910 --> 00:00:58,990
the National Australian Archives.

33
00:00:59,730 --> 00:01:01,370
Or the National Archives of Australia.

34
00:01:01,590 --> 00:01:02,250
I'm not quite sure.

35
00:01:02,310 --> 00:01:03,610
Which way around is that, by the way?

36
00:01:04,030 --> 00:01:05,430
National Archives of Australia.

37
00:01:08,290 --> 00:01:08,730
Good.

38
00:01:08,910 --> 00:01:09,170
Excellent.

39
00:01:09,310 --> 00:01:09,930
We cleaned that one up.

40
00:01:10,590 --> 00:01:13,330
Now, archiving is something we don't normally think

41
00:01:13,330 --> 00:01:14,490
about until we've lost something.

42
00:01:14,730 --> 00:01:16,090
But just give us a bit of a

43
00:01:16,090 --> 00:01:19,290
background on the National Archives that you work

44
00:01:19,290 --> 00:01:21,130
on and some of the things that you

45
00:01:21,130 --> 00:01:22,390
actually have to work with.

46
00:01:22,390 --> 00:01:23,810
And also, who the heck are you?

47
00:01:25,630 --> 00:01:26,690
We'll start with that.

48
00:01:27,350 --> 00:01:28,490
My name is Ben Chesterman.

49
00:01:28,570 --> 00:01:31,910
I'm the Digital Audio Visual Preservation Manager, which

50
00:01:31,910 --> 00:01:34,450
is a proper bureaucratic handful of a title.

51
00:01:35,710 --> 00:01:39,870
So my team takes in audio, which is

52
00:01:39,870 --> 00:01:42,590
obviously something we're all familiar with, but also

53
00:01:42,590 --> 00:01:46,430
film sound, 35, 17.5, 16 mil film.

54
00:01:46,770 --> 00:01:49,290
And then the video side as well, which

55
00:01:49,290 --> 00:01:51,030
we won't talk about on this podcast.

56
00:01:51,030 --> 00:01:52,170
It's a dirty word, I'd imagine.

57
00:01:53,450 --> 00:01:56,570
Within my audio team is headed up, I

58
00:01:56,570 --> 00:01:57,630
guess, by Craig Field.

59
00:01:58,150 --> 00:01:58,550
Yeah.

60
00:01:58,630 --> 00:01:58,790
Hi.

61
00:01:58,870 --> 00:01:59,870
My name's Craig Field.

62
00:02:00,110 --> 00:02:02,970
And like Ben, I'm part of this team

63
00:02:02,970 --> 00:02:05,430
here at the National Australian Archives.

64
00:02:06,170 --> 00:02:08,009
And yeah, I head up the audio department

65
00:02:08,009 --> 00:02:08,610
here.

66
00:02:09,490 --> 00:02:12,390
And we look after lots of different formats,

67
00:02:12,490 --> 00:02:14,170
things that we can discuss later if you

68
00:02:14,170 --> 00:02:14,410
like.

69
00:02:14,510 --> 00:02:16,830
But yeah, it's an interesting thing.

70
00:02:16,830 --> 00:02:18,750
Both Ben and I come from the corporate

71
00:02:18,750 --> 00:02:21,870
world or come from music production and post

72
00:02:21,870 --> 00:02:24,750
-production, and we're both quite new at the

73
00:02:24,750 --> 00:02:25,230
archives.

74
00:02:25,410 --> 00:02:30,790
So we're quite young archivists, but keen nonetheless,

75
00:02:31,070 --> 00:02:31,450
all right?

76
00:02:31,810 --> 00:02:33,370
So let's start with this then.

77
00:02:33,490 --> 00:02:36,390
To give us an overview of what you

78
00:02:36,390 --> 00:02:39,090
guys do, if someone said to you, what

79
00:02:39,090 --> 00:02:41,290
does the audio department of the National Archives

80
00:02:41,290 --> 00:02:43,570
of Australia do, what's your answer?

81
00:02:43,570 --> 00:02:45,930
The remit of the National Archives is to

82
00:02:45,930 --> 00:02:48,730
deal with all government agency records.

83
00:02:49,050 --> 00:02:51,270
And that could be anything from the Department

84
00:02:51,270 --> 00:02:51,770
of Defence.

85
00:02:52,050 --> 00:02:53,230
It can be Royal Commissions.

86
00:02:53,710 --> 00:02:57,610
It also includes the broadcasters, Film Australia, ABC,

87
00:02:58,010 --> 00:02:58,330
SBS.

88
00:02:59,410 --> 00:03:01,670
But unlike, say, the National Film and Sound

89
00:03:01,670 --> 00:03:03,850
Archive, our priority is not, I guess, the

90
00:03:03,850 --> 00:03:05,430
cultural significance of a record.

91
00:03:05,990 --> 00:03:06,590
Any record.

92
00:03:06,690 --> 00:03:08,270
It could be something as dry as The

93
00:03:08,270 --> 00:03:12,590
Wool Board or the Bicentennial Authority's backstage stuff

94
00:03:12,590 --> 00:03:13,910
at Rose Tattoo in Akkadak.

95
00:03:14,490 --> 00:03:17,150
Or it could be some Royal Commissions and

96
00:03:17,150 --> 00:03:19,270
really significant records like that.

97
00:03:19,810 --> 00:03:21,750
So there is a lot of cultural tags

98
00:03:21,750 --> 00:03:24,330
that come into it, security as well.

99
00:03:24,750 --> 00:03:27,150
But obviously the primary remit is to make

100
00:03:27,150 --> 00:03:31,270
that material safe and accessible to the researchers,

101
00:03:31,470 --> 00:03:33,750
the public, and those agencies in the future.

102
00:03:34,210 --> 00:03:36,070
I guess the U.S. equivalent is the

103
00:03:36,070 --> 00:03:37,050
Library of Congress?

104
00:03:37,050 --> 00:03:38,190
Yeah, absolutely.

105
00:03:38,450 --> 00:03:38,850
That's correct.

106
00:03:39,510 --> 00:03:41,670
And we very much engage with them in

107
00:03:41,670 --> 00:03:44,490
regards to what our specs are and TCO6

108
00:03:44,490 --> 00:03:45,870
and all these sorts of specifications.

109
00:03:46,250 --> 00:03:48,330
And that stuff is done with the Library

110
00:03:48,330 --> 00:03:50,470
of Congress and also, I will add, within

111
00:03:50,470 --> 00:03:51,370
the agencies here.

112
00:03:51,570 --> 00:03:53,850
So NFSA and us work quite closely together.

113
00:03:54,790 --> 00:03:56,830
So the Film and Sound Archive, to be

114
00:03:56,830 --> 00:03:58,930
clear though, is separate to you guys, obviously,

115
00:03:59,090 --> 00:04:00,470
but does a similar thing.

116
00:04:00,590 --> 00:04:02,890
But it's sort of the archive of Australian

117
00:04:02,890 --> 00:04:04,890
treasures, I guess, isn't it, in terms of

118
00:04:04,890 --> 00:04:05,270
recordings?

119
00:04:05,550 --> 00:04:05,950
Yeah, that's right.

120
00:04:05,950 --> 00:04:08,690
There's definitely a sort of lens of cultural

121
00:04:08,690 --> 00:04:11,890
significance that they put onto whether they accept

122
00:04:11,890 --> 00:04:12,410
a transfer.

123
00:04:12,750 --> 00:04:14,630
With us, we probably accept everything.

124
00:04:15,089 --> 00:04:16,010
And then there's a lot of crossover.

125
00:04:16,209 --> 00:04:18,810
They'll contact us because they may only have

126
00:04:18,810 --> 00:04:21,870
a low-res copy or a dub of

127
00:04:21,870 --> 00:04:22,190
something.

128
00:04:22,510 --> 00:04:23,950
We may have the original source.

129
00:04:24,150 --> 00:04:25,130
So we do a lot of that.

130
00:04:25,550 --> 00:04:25,870
Oh, wow.

131
00:04:25,930 --> 00:04:27,570
So you're sort of backing each other up

132
00:04:27,570 --> 00:04:29,490
as well, almost, then archiving each other.

133
00:04:29,550 --> 00:04:29,990
Absolutely.

134
00:04:30,150 --> 00:04:30,930
Yeah, absolutely.

135
00:04:31,490 --> 00:04:31,890
Yeah, absolutely.

136
00:04:31,910 --> 00:04:32,890
And the ABC too.

137
00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:37,090
We do almost daily transfers back and forth

138
00:04:37,090 --> 00:04:40,030
between ABC Radio, Archives and us when they

139
00:04:40,030 --> 00:04:41,650
have things that we need and vice versa.

140
00:04:42,110 --> 00:04:44,970
The ABC is the Australian Broadcast Commission, guys,

141
00:04:45,050 --> 00:04:46,170
for you guys in America.

142
00:04:46,730 --> 00:04:47,950
That's what the ABC is.

143
00:04:48,070 --> 00:04:50,970
So let's go through the process then.

144
00:04:51,090 --> 00:04:54,670
If something comes in to you guys, how

145
00:04:54,670 --> 00:04:56,890
do you sleep soundly at night knowing that

146
00:04:56,890 --> 00:04:58,330
it's securely archived then?

147
00:04:58,490 --> 00:04:59,450
What's the process?

148
00:04:59,610 --> 00:05:00,070
What happens?

149
00:05:00,070 --> 00:05:02,910
So I guess on the physical side, you'd

150
00:05:02,910 --> 00:05:04,190
start with a transfers team.

151
00:05:04,610 --> 00:05:07,390
So they would engage with the agency to

152
00:05:07,390 --> 00:05:10,230
make sure that's packed properly and all the

153
00:05:10,230 --> 00:05:10,610
rest of it.

154
00:05:10,710 --> 00:05:12,090
Obviously the first part of it is getting

155
00:05:12,090 --> 00:05:14,130
the material to our repository safely.

156
00:05:14,930 --> 00:05:17,650
Then everything is stored in the proper conditions

157
00:05:17,650 --> 00:05:18,570
depending on that format.

158
00:05:19,150 --> 00:05:21,850
And there are vaults here in Sydney as

159
00:05:21,850 --> 00:05:23,970
well as in Canberra, probably the largest one

160
00:05:23,970 --> 00:05:24,410
in Canberra.

161
00:05:24,950 --> 00:05:27,370
And depending on those formats, so film sound

162
00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:30,190
needs to be dealt with much colder temperatures

163
00:05:30,190 --> 00:05:33,030
generally than, say, an optical format like CDEC.

164
00:05:33,470 --> 00:05:35,410
So that's part of it.

165
00:05:35,830 --> 00:05:38,490
And then also there's an accessioning they call

166
00:05:38,490 --> 00:05:39,370
within the archives.

167
00:05:39,510 --> 00:05:41,930
That's where a team will sit down with

168
00:05:41,930 --> 00:05:43,770
the paperwork or the files that come from

169
00:05:43,770 --> 00:05:47,570
the agency and record that in our database

170
00:05:47,570 --> 00:05:50,470
so that we actually describe that record, as

171
00:05:50,470 --> 00:05:53,410
it's called, and make sure that that's accurate.

172
00:05:53,930 --> 00:05:56,530
Then in terms of what we do digitising,

173
00:05:56,630 --> 00:05:58,470
I'll hand over to Craig for that side

174
00:05:58,470 --> 00:05:59,550
of things and treatment and so on.

175
00:05:59,850 --> 00:06:01,410
Well, again, I guess the first thing we

176
00:06:01,410 --> 00:06:02,590
do is have a look at the format

177
00:06:02,590 --> 00:06:03,970
and see what there is.

178
00:06:04,370 --> 00:06:06,250
There's a wealth of knowledge here at the

179
00:06:06,250 --> 00:06:07,430
archive, as you can imagine.

180
00:06:07,530 --> 00:06:09,010
There's a lot of people like Ben and

181
00:06:09,010 --> 00:06:13,750
myself who've had pretty extensive professional careers and

182
00:06:13,750 --> 00:06:15,210
find themselves at the archives.

183
00:06:15,630 --> 00:06:19,710
In my second week here, someone who's been

184
00:06:19,710 --> 00:06:21,570
here a long time put his hand on

185
00:06:21,570 --> 00:06:24,850
my shoulder and said, don't worry, son, everything

186
00:06:24,850 --> 00:06:26,490
old ends up at the archive.

187
00:06:29,750 --> 00:06:31,170
Thank you so much.

188
00:06:31,410 --> 00:06:32,790
There's a lot of grey hair in the

189
00:06:32,790 --> 00:06:33,450
room right now.

190
00:06:35,770 --> 00:06:38,110
I haven't been offered a job yet, but

191
00:06:38,110 --> 00:06:40,690
maybe my time is now.

192
00:06:40,830 --> 00:06:42,690
Your time may be coming.

193
00:06:44,310 --> 00:06:47,650
So that's one of the first things that

194
00:06:47,650 --> 00:06:49,170
we do, obviously, as Ben mentioned.

195
00:06:49,170 --> 00:06:50,030
It goes to lending.

196
00:06:50,270 --> 00:06:53,290
It's very well cared for and put in

197
00:06:53,290 --> 00:06:53,990
different spaces.

198
00:06:54,210 --> 00:06:56,690
At our repository, for example, we've got cold

199
00:06:56,690 --> 00:07:00,210
rooms that are, you know, supersonic temperatures that

200
00:07:00,210 --> 00:07:03,490
are climate controlled, so to speak, where the

201
00:07:03,490 --> 00:07:07,110
air is refreshed every X amount of time.

202
00:07:07,110 --> 00:07:09,050
When there's certain amounts of particles in the

203
00:07:09,050 --> 00:07:10,810
air, the air is extracted and then put

204
00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:14,070
back in so that canisters can be kept

205
00:07:14,070 --> 00:07:15,710
at the best condition.

206
00:07:15,710 --> 00:07:20,110
We've got dehumidifying ovens and things like that

207
00:07:20,110 --> 00:07:21,550
for analog tape.

208
00:07:22,370 --> 00:07:25,830
Obviously, it's just best practice, really, and all

209
00:07:25,830 --> 00:07:30,010
those different formats require different techniques and different

210
00:07:30,010 --> 00:07:33,090
things, you know, right down to a HB

211
00:07:33,090 --> 00:07:34,670
pencil and a cassette tape.

212
00:07:36,450 --> 00:07:39,890
So some of it's preserving the actual original

213
00:07:39,890 --> 00:07:42,730
format and the earliest, most original format possible

214
00:07:42,730 --> 00:07:45,790
physically for as long as possible, and then

215
00:07:45,790 --> 00:07:48,790
part of it is transferring this to a

216
00:07:48,790 --> 00:07:52,410
medium that can be replayed over and over.

217
00:07:52,950 --> 00:07:53,590
Yeah, absolutely.

218
00:07:53,790 --> 00:07:57,210
Some things can't be shared from our particular

219
00:07:57,210 --> 00:07:58,790
archive, the National Archives.

220
00:07:59,070 --> 00:08:03,170
Some things are kept for under government policy

221
00:08:03,170 --> 00:08:05,950
and some things are available for public research

222
00:08:05,950 --> 00:08:07,230
and public access.

223
00:08:08,110 --> 00:08:12,510
But ultimately, what we try to do is,

224
00:08:12,510 --> 00:08:14,910
and again, I'm quite new at the archive,

225
00:08:15,050 --> 00:08:19,010
but it is a complete surrogate copy of

226
00:08:19,010 --> 00:08:22,750
the content, as pristine as humanly possible, and

227
00:08:22,750 --> 00:08:28,110
that obviously, say, in the, if we're talking

228
00:08:28,110 --> 00:08:30,610
a quarter-inch tape that's 40 years old,

229
00:08:30,930 --> 00:08:34,450
that can require a fair bit of care

230
00:08:34,450 --> 00:08:38,909
and understanding about what the format is and

231
00:08:38,909 --> 00:08:41,230
preparation before you do the recording because you

232
00:08:41,230 --> 00:08:42,669
might only have one shot of it.

233
00:08:43,430 --> 00:08:44,910
That's right, one shot.

234
00:08:45,070 --> 00:08:46,350
It's a one-take thing.

235
00:08:46,350 --> 00:08:47,270
Yeah, one shot.

236
00:08:47,610 --> 00:08:49,730
Which is, you know, when we were talking

237
00:08:49,730 --> 00:08:51,870
earlier about DSD and things like that and

238
00:08:51,870 --> 00:08:57,370
no editing, that really motivated me professionally as

239
00:08:57,370 --> 00:08:59,550
an engineer that you've got one shot at

240
00:08:59,550 --> 00:09:00,010
this, man.

241
00:09:00,090 --> 00:09:01,910
You've got to get everything set up, get

242
00:09:01,910 --> 00:09:03,730
it right, get it done.

243
00:09:04,010 --> 00:09:04,570
Why is that?

244
00:09:04,590 --> 00:09:06,010
Because a lot of people listening may not

245
00:09:06,010 --> 00:09:09,030
understand that the process of, we call it

246
00:09:09,030 --> 00:09:10,970
baking the tapes here in the US, but

247
00:09:10,970 --> 00:09:13,410
why is it you get one shot at

248
00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:13,730
that?

249
00:09:14,190 --> 00:09:16,670
Is it because after the tape is baked

250
00:09:16,670 --> 00:09:18,710
and then it is played, it falls apart,

251
00:09:18,910 --> 00:09:19,650
something like that?

252
00:09:19,870 --> 00:09:20,590
Not necessarily.

253
00:09:20,870 --> 00:09:22,250
In fact, if you don't bake it, it'll

254
00:09:22,250 --> 00:09:25,230
fall apart more possibly, I think.

255
00:09:25,490 --> 00:09:26,370
Yeah, that is right.

256
00:09:26,530 --> 00:09:29,030
The baking is to try and minimize the

257
00:09:29,030 --> 00:09:31,110
shedding, but you will get some.

258
00:09:31,250 --> 00:09:33,810
But the baking does affect the emulsion, so

259
00:09:33,810 --> 00:09:39,030
you are wanting to try and digitize well

260
00:09:39,030 --> 00:09:40,070
on your first pass.

261
00:09:40,470 --> 00:09:41,550
You have to know, I guess.

262
00:09:42,070 --> 00:09:42,270
Right.

263
00:09:42,390 --> 00:09:43,590
Do you know what we found that works

264
00:09:43,590 --> 00:09:44,330
great for baking?

265
00:09:44,490 --> 00:09:44,910
Do you remember?

266
00:09:46,070 --> 00:09:47,830
I mean, they're even perfectly sized like the

267
00:09:47,830 --> 00:09:48,170
reals.

268
00:09:48,210 --> 00:09:49,330
So do you remember back in the day

269
00:09:49,330 --> 00:09:50,790
they used to have these, like, get all

270
00:09:50,790 --> 00:09:52,570
your bananas and slice them and slice your

271
00:09:52,570 --> 00:09:54,830
strawberries and then you dehydrate them?

272
00:09:54,970 --> 00:09:55,330
Food dehydrators.

273
00:09:55,570 --> 00:09:57,830
Yeah, and really you're dehydrating the tape, and

274
00:09:57,830 --> 00:09:59,230
that works better than tossing it in the

275
00:09:59,230 --> 00:10:01,130
oven at 150 degrees, I think.

276
00:10:01,130 --> 00:10:03,010
But what do you guys do as far

277
00:10:03,010 --> 00:10:03,830
as baking tape?

278
00:10:04,270 --> 00:10:05,910
We've got a microwave downstairs that is thrown

279
00:10:05,910 --> 00:10:06,870
in every five seconds.

280
00:10:07,030 --> 00:10:07,250
That's right.

281
00:10:07,370 --> 00:10:07,790
It's in the kitchen.

282
00:10:09,470 --> 00:10:11,510
I don't know about rust in a microwave.

283
00:10:12,530 --> 00:10:12,910
Yeah, yeah.

284
00:10:13,250 --> 00:10:17,990
Look, technically, don't use the term baking, okay,

285
00:10:18,150 --> 00:10:22,390
because the last thing you want to do

286
00:10:22,390 --> 00:10:23,510
is have a baked tape.

287
00:10:23,670 --> 00:10:24,210
Well, hang on.

288
00:10:24,290 --> 00:10:26,310
When you're recording to tape, we call it

289
00:10:26,310 --> 00:10:26,610
baked.

290
00:10:26,750 --> 00:10:28,450
It's baked in once you've recorded it to

291
00:10:28,450 --> 00:10:28,550
tape.

292
00:10:29,330 --> 00:10:30,950
You certainly can have it.

293
00:10:31,010 --> 00:10:31,950
Yeah, yeah, it is.

294
00:10:32,050 --> 00:10:33,130
And most of the people in the studio

295
00:10:33,130 --> 00:10:33,630
are baked.

296
00:10:34,170 --> 00:10:34,930
That's not a problem.

297
00:10:35,790 --> 00:10:36,530
I don't know about that.

298
00:10:36,910 --> 00:10:38,190
That's a given.

299
00:10:38,810 --> 00:10:41,210
But when you're getting there, you don't want

300
00:10:41,210 --> 00:10:42,630
to bake that tape, okay?

301
00:10:42,770 --> 00:10:45,010
You do want to dehumidify it.

302
00:10:45,750 --> 00:10:47,670
Dehydralize is the term they use.

303
00:10:48,370 --> 00:10:48,850
Dehydralize.

304
00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:52,830
And as Ben stated, what they've found, and

305
00:10:52,830 --> 00:10:55,030
it was the Library of Congress that came

306
00:10:55,030 --> 00:10:57,770
up with some of the disciplines that they

307
00:10:57,770 --> 00:11:01,010
use in these ovens, they used to use

308
00:11:01,010 --> 00:11:03,430
a process where the ovens were set to

309
00:11:03,430 --> 00:11:07,170
38 degrees and they would put a tape,

310
00:11:07,410 --> 00:11:10,950
two-inch, quarter-inch, one-inch, they would

311
00:11:10,950 --> 00:11:12,230
put in there for four days.

312
00:11:12,650 --> 00:11:15,070
And they used that standard for many, many

313
00:11:15,070 --> 00:11:19,010
years, and it's only recently after extensive tests

314
00:11:19,010 --> 00:11:22,350
that they've now changed that temperature to a

315
00:11:22,350 --> 00:11:24,990
standard of about 48 degrees and a constant,

316
00:11:24,990 --> 00:11:28,030
and they give it 48 hours in there.

317
00:11:28,110 --> 00:11:31,130
And they have found that that helps the

318
00:11:31,130 --> 00:11:35,190
emulsion, you know, pretty much just rejoin the

319
00:11:35,190 --> 00:11:37,290
tape so that it's solid, so that you

320
00:11:37,290 --> 00:11:38,250
can play it back.

321
00:11:38,350 --> 00:11:41,970
Because after a period of time, there was

322
00:11:41,970 --> 00:11:46,930
a lubricant that was commercially applied within the

323
00:11:46,930 --> 00:11:50,070
manufacturer of the tape, and that lubricant amongst

324
00:11:50,070 --> 00:11:53,770
other chemicals slowly starts to break up and

325
00:11:53,770 --> 00:11:57,350
causes the emulsion that's on the top of

326
00:11:57,350 --> 00:12:00,250
the tape that we would magnetize to lift

327
00:12:00,250 --> 00:12:02,950
and shed and break up.

328
00:12:03,550 --> 00:12:06,390
And the warmth and the constant warmth and

329
00:12:06,390 --> 00:12:10,210
that constant temperature helps that emulsion just join

330
00:12:10,210 --> 00:12:12,690
back to the back of the tape and

331
00:12:12,690 --> 00:12:15,890
can give you a chance of...

332
00:12:15,890 --> 00:12:17,770
So it's still only one pass, though, by

333
00:12:17,770 --> 00:12:18,530
the sounds of it.

334
00:12:18,910 --> 00:12:20,750
It's not necessarily one pass.

335
00:12:21,030 --> 00:12:22,350
I mean, after you bake it, it's been

336
00:12:22,350 --> 00:12:25,130
through trauma, but it's not necessarily completely dead.

337
00:12:25,550 --> 00:12:28,570
But every playback, I mean, technically every playback

338
00:12:28,570 --> 00:12:30,890
of a tape is wearing off, you know,

339
00:12:31,050 --> 00:12:31,510
it's friction.

340
00:12:31,510 --> 00:12:31,990
Yeah, that's right.

341
00:12:32,850 --> 00:12:33,550
It's like a record.

342
00:12:33,610 --> 00:12:34,090
No, you're right, Robert.

343
00:12:34,250 --> 00:12:37,410
It's not always one pass, but generally the

344
00:12:37,410 --> 00:12:39,470
archival way is to try and get a

345
00:12:39,470 --> 00:12:41,790
single pass in, so you're not doing edits

346
00:12:41,790 --> 00:12:42,830
and anything like that.

347
00:12:43,250 --> 00:12:45,450
But I would add to that, the ovens

348
00:12:45,450 --> 00:12:47,550
that are used by us and vendors, I

349
00:12:47,550 --> 00:12:50,130
should add, there's digitization vendors that do work

350
00:12:50,130 --> 00:12:54,030
for all the archives, basically scientific medical ovens

351
00:12:54,030 --> 00:12:56,010
because they're required to be at those really

352
00:12:56,010 --> 00:12:59,950
low, essentially, low but stable temperatures.

353
00:13:00,690 --> 00:13:02,130
And I have worked on a project, I

354
00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:04,710
won't name names, but someone had an oven

355
00:13:04,710 --> 00:13:06,450
that completely malfunctioned.

356
00:13:06,510 --> 00:13:08,650
The thermostat went up in the middle of

357
00:13:08,650 --> 00:13:09,810
the night and came in the morning.

358
00:13:10,470 --> 00:13:12,850
They had some lovely sculptures, but not great.

359
00:13:13,350 --> 00:13:15,150
We took a melted quarter-inch reels.

360
00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:16,390
It was quite a sight.

361
00:13:17,590 --> 00:13:18,770
That's when it's baking.

362
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:19,910
That's when it's baking.

363
00:13:19,910 --> 00:13:21,030
It's literally baking.

364
00:13:21,430 --> 00:13:21,610
That's right.

365
00:13:22,350 --> 00:13:23,870
And I would add as well that a

366
00:13:23,870 --> 00:13:25,330
big part of what Craig and the team

367
00:13:25,330 --> 00:13:27,910
do here is to evaluate the issues with

368
00:13:27,910 --> 00:13:29,650
that source before they even start.

369
00:13:29,790 --> 00:13:32,570
You might have other issues that aren't related

370
00:13:32,570 --> 00:13:35,090
to hydrolysis or sticky shed syndrome as it's

371
00:13:35,090 --> 00:13:35,570
often called.

372
00:13:35,830 --> 00:13:38,390
There's another one which is known as loss

373
00:13:38,390 --> 00:13:40,870
of lubricant where the actual lubricant on the

374
00:13:40,870 --> 00:13:44,170
tape is worn off and then you get

375
00:13:44,170 --> 00:13:46,590
this quite noticeable squeaking as it goes across

376
00:13:46,590 --> 00:13:48,910
the reels and the capstans.

377
00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:50,530
And that's a different issue.

378
00:13:50,650 --> 00:13:52,790
You'll actually deal with that in a different

379
00:13:52,790 --> 00:13:56,730
way by using solutions drip-fed onto the

380
00:13:56,730 --> 00:13:58,410
tape as it's heading over the heads.

381
00:13:59,230 --> 00:14:00,770
You can use other…

382
00:14:00,770 --> 00:14:03,450
What's the stuff the NFSA were starting to

383
00:14:03,450 --> 00:14:03,770
play with?

384
00:14:04,550 --> 00:14:04,990
Hydromethazone.

385
00:14:05,250 --> 00:14:07,150
Yeah, hydromethazone is a new product.

386
00:14:07,170 --> 00:14:08,490
I'd like to try some of that.

387
00:14:11,190 --> 00:14:13,570
That's almost like a silicon-like solution.

388
00:14:14,910 --> 00:14:16,470
It's used to help with that loss of

389
00:14:16,470 --> 00:14:16,870
lubricant.

390
00:14:16,870 --> 00:14:19,190
They found that on old cassettes as well

391
00:14:19,190 --> 00:14:20,450
that that's worked really well.

392
00:14:20,550 --> 00:14:21,570
Well, I was just going to ask, you

393
00:14:21,570 --> 00:14:23,930
mentioned it before, has anybody come up with

394
00:14:23,930 --> 00:14:25,890
anything better than the HB pencil on a

395
00:14:25,890 --> 00:14:26,390
cassette yet?

396
00:14:26,550 --> 00:14:27,630
I mean, really?

397
00:14:27,970 --> 00:14:30,490
Look, there were originally in the 80s, funnily

398
00:14:30,490 --> 00:14:32,090
enough, there were winders.

399
00:14:32,550 --> 00:14:33,910
They were commercially available.

400
00:14:34,390 --> 00:14:34,490
Yes, they were.

401
00:14:34,490 --> 00:14:34,670
I remember.

402
00:14:34,830 --> 00:14:36,290
And they're very hard to get because after

403
00:14:36,290 --> 00:14:36,870
you've…

404
00:14:37,450 --> 00:14:39,290
We're looking down the barrel of one particular

405
00:14:39,290 --> 00:14:42,430
project soon that's got about 500 cassettes and

406
00:14:42,430 --> 00:14:45,750
they all need analysis, they all need checking,

407
00:14:45,750 --> 00:14:51,390
they all need revision, tightening, and ultimately, as

408
00:14:51,390 --> 00:14:54,990
Ben sort of insinuated, when we're archiving something,

409
00:14:55,470 --> 00:14:58,630
it needs to happen in one pass without

410
00:14:58,630 --> 00:15:00,590
any editing.

411
00:15:01,270 --> 00:15:04,150
So it needs to be one complete recording

412
00:15:04,150 --> 00:15:06,550
or it stops being a legal document, it

413
00:15:06,550 --> 00:15:08,410
stops being a surrogate copy.

414
00:15:09,410 --> 00:15:11,810
So if you put a cut in there

415
00:15:11,810 --> 00:15:13,190
or you put an edit or you have

416
00:15:13,190 --> 00:15:15,410
to stop for some reason, and this includes

417
00:15:15,410 --> 00:15:17,530
if we're doing top secret things, if someone

418
00:15:17,530 --> 00:15:20,730
enters the room, that recording is no longer

419
00:15:20,730 --> 00:15:21,810
a legal document.

420
00:15:22,190 --> 00:15:22,290
Wow.

421
00:15:22,370 --> 00:15:24,990
And you would find that with archiving throughout

422
00:15:24,990 --> 00:15:26,870
the world so that when you're doing certain

423
00:15:26,870 --> 00:15:30,770
things, it's just like engineering, it's the preparation

424
00:15:30,770 --> 00:15:35,290
and the means and the communication prior to

425
00:15:35,290 --> 00:15:38,690
it and then the actual function of the

426
00:15:38,690 --> 00:15:39,210
recording.

427
00:15:39,990 --> 00:15:41,970
So there's a few elements involved.

428
00:15:43,450 --> 00:15:46,130
No, the HP pencil is still pretty important,

429
00:15:46,350 --> 00:15:46,770
I think.

430
00:15:47,590 --> 00:15:49,390
And if anyone knows where there's a whole

431
00:15:49,390 --> 00:15:52,810
stash of winders, old stock from the 80s,

432
00:15:53,010 --> 00:15:55,910
please write to Craig at the archive.

433
00:15:56,590 --> 00:15:58,370
Craig, I think I do actually have one.

434
00:15:58,490 --> 00:16:00,030
I have a cassette repair kit.

435
00:16:00,230 --> 00:16:00,810
Name your price.

436
00:16:01,150 --> 00:16:04,410
Well, it's my birthday in July, so you

437
00:16:04,410 --> 00:16:06,170
can let me know.

438
00:16:06,330 --> 00:16:06,750
Send us a box.

439
00:16:07,350 --> 00:16:09,690
You've just beggared one more question for me.

440
00:16:09,770 --> 00:16:11,410
Given the high stakes that's going on, what

441
00:16:11,410 --> 00:16:14,390
has more pressure involved, recording an orchestra or

442
00:16:14,390 --> 00:16:16,810
a three-meter piano or sitting down to

443
00:16:16,810 --> 00:16:17,430
dub a cassette?

444
00:16:17,850 --> 00:16:20,750
Oh, look, you face all of the problems

445
00:16:20,750 --> 00:16:22,930
just like we did our technical problems this

446
00:16:22,930 --> 00:16:25,070
morning, just hooking up all these sorts of

447
00:16:25,070 --> 00:16:25,450
lines.

448
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:27,750
You just face them as they come as

449
00:16:27,750 --> 00:16:28,230
an engineer.

450
00:16:28,490 --> 00:16:30,770
And I think you get so used to

451
00:16:30,770 --> 00:16:35,070
things not working and figuring out problems that

452
00:16:35,070 --> 00:16:38,090
you either embrace that in your career and

453
00:16:38,090 --> 00:16:41,590
realize that that's one of the largest parts

454
00:16:41,590 --> 00:16:43,550
of the career is you plug something in.

455
00:16:43,850 --> 00:16:46,570
I came this morning, plugged something in, and

456
00:16:46,570 --> 00:16:47,890
one of my leads isn't working.

457
00:16:48,670 --> 00:16:50,990
Now, it's like, come on, one of the

458
00:16:50,990 --> 00:16:51,170
leads.

459
00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:52,650
I just couldn't believe it.

460
00:16:53,070 --> 00:16:54,970
And so it worked yesterday.

461
00:16:55,610 --> 00:16:56,290
Yeah, of course it did.

462
00:16:56,910 --> 00:17:01,250
I mean, that's the old set up the

463
00:17:01,250 --> 00:17:02,850
session the night before and you leave it

464
00:17:02,850 --> 00:17:03,109
open.

465
00:17:03,230 --> 00:17:04,089
You don't close Pro Tools.

466
00:17:04,230 --> 00:17:04,849
You don't do anything.

467
00:17:04,849 --> 00:17:06,230
You come in the next morning and two

468
00:17:06,230 --> 00:17:08,190
mics aren't running or something's not working.

469
00:17:08,310 --> 00:17:10,270
What the hell is going on here?

470
00:17:10,569 --> 00:17:10,849
Exactly.

471
00:17:11,210 --> 00:17:11,930
Yeah, that's it, right?

472
00:17:12,569 --> 00:17:14,250
That is the law of it.

473
00:17:14,510 --> 00:17:17,430
So I would say to answer your question,

474
00:17:18,030 --> 00:17:21,650
when, say, you're recording a small ensemble, no

475
00:17:21,650 --> 00:17:22,970
one really knows.

476
00:17:23,030 --> 00:17:25,410
When you're the engineer and the technician, even

477
00:17:25,410 --> 00:17:27,770
if there's a producer with you, maybe the

478
00:17:27,770 --> 00:17:30,270
producer understands, but few people really know what's

479
00:17:30,270 --> 00:17:33,290
going on, especially with trying to capture the

480
00:17:33,290 --> 00:17:35,890
dynamic and the room and capturing the air

481
00:17:35,890 --> 00:17:37,450
and the performance and all of those sorts

482
00:17:37,450 --> 00:17:39,190
of things that you're trying to oversee.

483
00:17:39,370 --> 00:17:41,730
Mostly the musicians are very focused on themselves

484
00:17:41,730 --> 00:17:42,750
and their performance.

485
00:17:43,570 --> 00:17:46,490
I've found, coming from that and working at

486
00:17:46,490 --> 00:17:49,470
the archives, that you're surrounded by a whole

487
00:17:49,470 --> 00:17:52,810
group of really professional people who are totally

488
00:17:52,810 --> 00:17:54,170
kind of with you.

489
00:17:54,290 --> 00:17:55,670
So there's a great deal of support.

490
00:17:56,150 --> 00:17:58,030
There's a great deal of knowledge, and we

491
00:17:58,030 --> 00:18:00,230
can go down to Canberra or call up

492
00:18:00,230 --> 00:18:03,250
someone who's got 20 years' experience with a

493
00:18:03,250 --> 00:18:06,950
particular format, and they'll talk you through it

494
00:18:06,950 --> 00:18:09,950
over the phone, hold your hand, and if

495
00:18:09,950 --> 00:18:11,510
it does go wrong, they'll probably buy you

496
00:18:11,510 --> 00:18:12,630
a coffee at the end of it.

497
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:16,710
It's a different world, but it's a very

498
00:18:16,710 --> 00:18:19,930
supported environment to work in, and it's great

499
00:18:19,930 --> 00:18:22,410
being there's just so much knowledge here.

500
00:18:22,510 --> 00:18:23,290
It's fantastic.

501
00:18:24,070 --> 00:18:26,270
What's one of the most difficult formats that

502
00:18:26,270 --> 00:18:28,530
when you're presented with it, you're thinking, oh

503
00:18:28,530 --> 00:18:31,290
boy, what's one of the challenging ones?

504
00:18:32,090 --> 00:18:32,870
In audio land?

505
00:18:33,090 --> 00:18:33,230
DAT tapes.

506
00:18:33,490 --> 00:18:35,910
DAT tapes that decide to crap out.

507
00:18:36,310 --> 00:18:36,410
DAT tapes.

508
00:18:36,430 --> 00:18:38,250
DAT tapes that fuck up.

509
00:18:39,130 --> 00:18:40,850
Anything with a spinning head, right?

510
00:18:40,990 --> 00:18:41,930
A spinning head tape.

511
00:18:42,170 --> 00:18:43,150
We were all of an age that we

512
00:18:43,150 --> 00:18:45,010
used DATs back in the day, and they

513
00:18:45,010 --> 00:18:45,930
were bad even then.

514
00:18:46,210 --> 00:18:48,290
If you were recording a TASCAM, you couldn't

515
00:18:48,290 --> 00:18:49,910
play back in a Sony, all that nonsense.

516
00:18:50,330 --> 00:18:51,710
So that continues.

517
00:18:52,070 --> 00:18:54,170
We have to have a range of machines,

518
00:18:54,550 --> 00:18:56,430
and we have a bunch of different brands.

519
00:18:56,430 --> 00:18:57,410
Yeah, DAT tapes.

520
00:18:57,590 --> 00:18:59,070
I used to carry around a little portable

521
00:18:59,070 --> 00:19:01,770
to do some production sound mixing for a

522
00:19:01,770 --> 00:19:02,930
film, real low budget.

523
00:19:03,890 --> 00:19:05,710
And you would just pray that that thing

524
00:19:05,710 --> 00:19:08,250
wasn't going to drop bits and drop out.

525
00:19:08,910 --> 00:19:10,190
So here's a question.

526
00:19:10,450 --> 00:19:11,930
First of all, actually one quick question.

527
00:19:12,030 --> 00:19:13,210
Have you ever had to bake a DAT

528
00:19:13,210 --> 00:19:13,430
tape?

529
00:19:14,050 --> 00:19:14,550
Well, yes.

530
00:19:14,710 --> 00:19:16,270
You should bake DAT tapes.

531
00:19:16,770 --> 00:19:19,130
And then the second question, which is something

532
00:19:19,130 --> 00:19:20,650
I've noticed, and I'm wondering if you've noticed

533
00:19:20,650 --> 00:19:21,010
yourself.

534
00:19:21,150 --> 00:19:24,210
I've done a few projects where someone brings

535
00:19:24,210 --> 00:19:25,770
me all their old tapes, and you dry

536
00:19:25,770 --> 00:19:27,490
them out, and then you get your one

537
00:19:27,490 --> 00:19:27,790
playback.

538
00:19:28,070 --> 00:19:29,170
And I have seen it.

539
00:19:29,210 --> 00:19:31,430
If you guys haven't seen this, it goes

540
00:19:31,430 --> 00:19:33,670
through the pinch roller, and it plays back.

541
00:19:33,850 --> 00:19:36,290
And coming off that pinch roller, one piece

542
00:19:36,290 --> 00:19:37,370
of tape becomes two.

543
00:19:37,890 --> 00:19:40,390
And the second piece of tape just disintegrates

544
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:42,350
because it's just literally the oxide.

545
00:19:43,090 --> 00:19:44,830
And the funny thing I've noticed is that

546
00:19:44,830 --> 00:19:47,770
sometimes when people bring these projects, the cheap

547
00:19:47,770 --> 00:19:51,690
tape from Radio Shack doesn't mess up.

548
00:19:51,690 --> 00:19:57,110
And the expensive Ampex or BASF tape, that

549
00:19:57,110 --> 00:19:58,630
stuff delaminates.

550
00:19:58,950 --> 00:20:00,150
And you really have to make sure you

551
00:20:00,150 --> 00:20:00,910
bake that stuff.

552
00:20:01,310 --> 00:20:04,150
But the old crappy tapes, whatever they did

553
00:20:04,150 --> 00:20:06,330
differently on them, those seem to deal with

554
00:20:06,330 --> 00:20:07,550
the age better.

555
00:20:07,550 --> 00:20:10,730
I think it's the additional cheap uranium content

556
00:20:10,730 --> 00:20:11,990
in the Radio Shack.

557
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:15,230
It just seems to go forever, you know?

558
00:20:15,470 --> 00:20:15,950
You don't rub it.

559
00:20:16,090 --> 00:20:18,390
You're putting the radiation in Radio Shack.

560
00:20:18,430 --> 00:20:19,170
Is that what we're saying?

561
00:20:19,590 --> 00:20:19,910
Yeah.

562
00:20:19,910 --> 00:20:22,790
I really think you're right, Robert.

563
00:20:22,910 --> 00:20:23,330
It's funny.

564
00:20:23,590 --> 00:20:26,710
I came here and was surprised to learn

565
00:20:26,710 --> 00:20:29,710
that Ampex 456, which when I started out

566
00:20:29,710 --> 00:20:31,130
was like, that's the tape.

567
00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:31,950
That's what you use.

568
00:20:32,350 --> 00:20:34,870
It does not age well at all.

569
00:20:35,170 --> 00:20:37,110
There are other brands that weren't as well

570
00:20:37,110 --> 00:20:39,330
considered back in the day that just, for

571
00:20:39,330 --> 00:20:42,330
whatever reason, they just hold their condition better.

572
00:20:42,610 --> 00:20:44,570
And so they'll require treatment.

573
00:20:45,250 --> 00:20:48,550
I was thinking another format that's a nightmare

574
00:20:48,550 --> 00:20:51,510
are optical CD-Rs, you know, the ones

575
00:20:51,510 --> 00:20:51,870
you record.

576
00:20:51,870 --> 00:20:52,670
I was going to say DVDs.

577
00:20:52,930 --> 00:20:54,770
Don't they have a shelf life and they

578
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:57,930
just start to eventually start throwing errors?

579
00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:01,230
In regards to your guys' audience, a lot

580
00:21:01,230 --> 00:21:03,950
of us would have those DVD-R backups,

581
00:21:04,090 --> 00:21:05,450
CD-R backups of our sessions.

582
00:21:05,470 --> 00:21:07,530
Those are my archives, by the way, for

583
00:21:07,530 --> 00:21:08,370
a lot of my media.

584
00:21:08,710 --> 00:21:09,050
That's it.

585
00:21:09,750 --> 00:21:11,470
Disc rod is very real.

586
00:21:11,470 --> 00:21:14,190
I think we're all probably familiar with it.

587
00:21:14,210 --> 00:21:15,530
You pull out a disc and it's got

588
00:21:15,530 --> 00:21:16,550
those big holes in it.

589
00:21:16,710 --> 00:21:19,730
It's where the reflective layer just breaks down,

590
00:21:20,430 --> 00:21:22,650
and that can be anything from light-related

591
00:21:22,650 --> 00:21:23,530
chemical breakdown.

592
00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:26,510
So, yeah, they're one we'd really want to

593
00:21:26,510 --> 00:21:26,990
be getting off.

594
00:21:27,950 --> 00:21:30,630
Just on that, a really cool approach, and

595
00:21:30,630 --> 00:21:33,230
we were talking about the HP pencils before,

596
00:21:33,350 --> 00:21:35,570
but what we've really liked coming into this

597
00:21:35,570 --> 00:21:37,410
is some of the novel approaches that are

598
00:21:37,410 --> 00:21:38,690
really starting to come out now.

599
00:21:38,690 --> 00:21:43,250
People are using 3D printing to build new

600
00:21:43,250 --> 00:21:45,870
machines, essentially new components for these old machines.

601
00:21:46,450 --> 00:21:48,370
At the same time that Craig and I

602
00:21:48,370 --> 00:21:49,810
have come in here and we're digging back

603
00:21:49,810 --> 00:21:52,730
into old machines that we haven't used in

604
00:21:52,730 --> 00:21:56,030
40 years, there's that element of finding obsolete

605
00:21:56,030 --> 00:21:59,310
equipment, as it's called, and cleaners, the old

606
00:21:59,310 --> 00:22:01,530
bow cleaners that you string up a tape

607
00:22:01,530 --> 00:22:02,470
and run it through first.

608
00:22:02,870 --> 00:22:05,050
There's also some really novel stuff being done

609
00:22:05,050 --> 00:22:07,850
with 3D printing, using new machines to be

610
00:22:07,850 --> 00:22:10,690
able to take a tape out of its

611
00:22:10,690 --> 00:22:13,110
case, roll it around, have a look at

612
00:22:13,110 --> 00:22:14,890
it, really kind of judge it.

613
00:22:15,310 --> 00:22:18,130
And with DATs, I've seen people using the

614
00:22:18,130 --> 00:22:21,370
old data DATs that we would use to

615
00:22:21,370 --> 00:22:23,250
put data to in the old day, and

616
00:22:23,250 --> 00:22:26,810
they're actually extracting the audio data from that

617
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:30,910
DAT using an old SCSI setup, and so

618
00:22:30,910 --> 00:22:32,210
they're not actually having to run for an

619
00:22:32,210 --> 00:22:33,550
old Sony or a Tascam machine.

620
00:22:33,550 --> 00:22:35,890
So like Craig said, around the world there

621
00:22:35,890 --> 00:22:38,490
are archivists, they're very sharing, there's no sort

622
00:22:38,490 --> 00:22:39,130
of competition.

623
00:22:39,370 --> 00:22:44,090
It's a special DAT drive that reads data

624
00:22:44,090 --> 00:22:44,870
and audio.

625
00:22:45,670 --> 00:22:46,250
Yeah, that's right.

626
00:22:46,350 --> 00:22:48,410
Because Mark Gilbert used to use those, I

627
00:22:48,410 --> 00:22:50,590
think they were the Connor drives, and he

628
00:22:50,590 --> 00:22:53,010
had DAT Studio, and you could load DAT

629
00:22:53,010 --> 00:22:56,350
tapes in at double speed via data instead

630
00:22:56,350 --> 00:22:58,630
of via as audio playback.

631
00:22:59,030 --> 00:22:59,830
Yeah, that's right.

632
00:22:59,830 --> 00:23:01,750
But you had to find those special DDS,

633
00:23:01,750 --> 00:23:04,770
what was the DAT format, DDS3 was that?

634
00:23:06,290 --> 00:23:06,810
DDR3?

635
00:23:07,430 --> 00:23:08,330
DDR3 was it?

636
00:23:08,670 --> 00:23:08,770
Yeah.

637
00:23:08,790 --> 00:23:10,730
Yeah, and then you also have to find

638
00:23:10,730 --> 00:23:12,430
an old SCSI card and something that can

639
00:23:12,430 --> 00:23:12,870
run that.

640
00:23:13,430 --> 00:23:16,450
And an old computer that can run the

641
00:23:16,450 --> 00:23:16,930
software.

642
00:23:17,590 --> 00:23:20,970
I like to ask the audience questions that

643
00:23:20,970 --> 00:23:22,590
somebody would love to ask.

644
00:23:23,050 --> 00:23:26,850
So what's the oldest piece of audio medium

645
00:23:26,850 --> 00:23:29,470
that you had to archive?

646
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:30,690
A wax cylinder.

647
00:23:31,590 --> 00:23:34,050
We're both pretty new, but down in Canberra,

648
00:23:34,090 --> 00:23:35,390
we've both been down there.

649
00:23:35,550 --> 00:23:38,750
They have some wire recordings, they've got quite

650
00:23:38,750 --> 00:23:39,450
a substantial.

651
00:23:40,490 --> 00:23:44,130
And I can't remember the technician's name down

652
00:23:44,130 --> 00:23:44,270
there.

653
00:23:44,510 --> 00:23:47,330
Aren't wire recorders after wax cylinders though?

654
00:23:47,470 --> 00:23:48,990
I think wax cylinders predate wire recorders.

655
00:23:48,990 --> 00:23:50,230
Yeah, they've got wax as well.

656
00:23:50,330 --> 00:23:52,430
They've got wax as well, but because of

657
00:23:52,430 --> 00:23:56,270
Australia being such a broad country and those

658
00:23:56,270 --> 00:23:59,590
wire cylinders were easy to transport, there was

659
00:23:59,590 --> 00:24:01,510
quite an industry here in Australia at that

660
00:24:01,510 --> 00:24:01,830
time.

661
00:24:01,970 --> 00:24:03,690
So people were sending them out to sheep

662
00:24:03,690 --> 00:24:05,750
stations and different places like that.

663
00:24:05,830 --> 00:24:06,750
They were quite robust.

664
00:24:07,570 --> 00:24:10,230
And when you see what happens if you

665
00:24:10,230 --> 00:24:15,530
take the spool, there's two kilometres of very

666
00:24:15,530 --> 00:24:17,630
fine wire on that thing.

667
00:24:17,750 --> 00:24:20,770
And when it comes off badly, it looks

668
00:24:20,770 --> 00:24:23,150
like steel wool.

669
00:24:24,030 --> 00:24:24,750
Like an afro.

670
00:24:24,870 --> 00:24:25,850
It's a mess.

671
00:24:26,030 --> 00:24:27,170
It's terrible.

672
00:24:27,170 --> 00:24:31,390
And listening to their stories of having to

673
00:24:31,390 --> 00:24:33,890
detangle those and put them back, but they've

674
00:24:33,890 --> 00:24:35,850
got quite an advanced understanding of that.

675
00:24:36,370 --> 00:24:38,550
And their technician down in Canberra has actually

676
00:24:38,550 --> 00:24:40,930
gone over to university in America and lectured

677
00:24:40,930 --> 00:24:41,310
on it.

678
00:24:41,710 --> 00:24:44,050
And they've developed, just so they could get

679
00:24:44,050 --> 00:24:47,650
an understanding of the magnetism techniques, they've used

680
00:24:47,650 --> 00:24:50,750
a horn and done their own wire recordings.

681
00:24:51,450 --> 00:24:55,310
So they've actually recorded through old machines just

682
00:24:55,310 --> 00:24:57,190
so they could get a better understanding of

683
00:24:57,190 --> 00:24:59,470
how it was originally done, so they could

684
00:24:59,470 --> 00:25:02,110
also do the transfers because there was so

685
00:25:02,110 --> 00:25:03,630
much significant content.

686
00:25:04,050 --> 00:25:05,390
Now I would say with some of the

687
00:25:05,390 --> 00:25:08,010
formats, what's interesting is some of the older

688
00:25:08,010 --> 00:25:13,630
formats, including wire recording, some of the early

689
00:25:13,630 --> 00:25:17,230
shellac and vinyl, they're really at very low

690
00:25:17,230 --> 00:25:19,950
risk because they're still functioning quite well.

691
00:25:20,170 --> 00:25:22,590
And they come off and they work and

692
00:25:22,590 --> 00:25:23,410
sound great.

693
00:25:23,410 --> 00:25:25,450
And I would say the same for tape

694
00:25:25,450 --> 00:25:27,330
and quarter-inch, if it's been stored well.

695
00:25:27,930 --> 00:25:31,170
And there were very good technicians back in

696
00:25:31,170 --> 00:25:32,710
the day when people were recording.

697
00:25:32,950 --> 00:25:35,030
The stuff that we get obviously comes from

698
00:25:35,030 --> 00:25:37,290
the National Broadcaster and things, so it's really

699
00:25:37,290 --> 00:25:37,950
well recorded.

700
00:25:38,550 --> 00:25:41,410
The sound that comes off them is fantastic,

701
00:25:42,170 --> 00:25:43,810
even on a 40-year-old Studer.

702
00:25:44,090 --> 00:25:46,030
And at least compared to film, it doesn't

703
00:25:46,030 --> 00:25:47,790
catch on fire if you store it wrong.

704
00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:48,830
Yeah, yeah, that's right.

705
00:25:49,730 --> 00:25:52,390
I guess film sound's probably a little out

706
00:25:52,390 --> 00:25:54,710
of the scope of this podcast, but some

707
00:25:54,710 --> 00:25:56,950
of the guys, I think you've probably heard

708
00:25:56,950 --> 00:25:59,770
of vinegar syndrome, where the acetate breaks down

709
00:25:59,770 --> 00:26:01,990
and you get a very strong smell of

710
00:26:01,990 --> 00:26:02,210
vinegar.

711
00:26:03,210 --> 00:26:07,670
And Tony Ravichow, head film sound guy, calls

712
00:26:07,670 --> 00:26:09,550
them hockey pucks when they get so bad

713
00:26:09,550 --> 00:26:12,210
that you pull out these reels of mag

714
00:26:12,210 --> 00:26:14,030
and it's just a solid lump.

715
00:26:14,290 --> 00:26:15,370
Just solid, yeah.

716
00:26:15,470 --> 00:26:16,330
He will sit there.

717
00:26:16,770 --> 00:26:18,470
An old drummer, he's a drummer, so he

718
00:26:18,470 --> 00:26:20,910
has an old drum mic stand set up.

719
00:26:21,390 --> 00:26:22,790
It's almost like a hairdryer.

720
00:26:23,030 --> 00:26:24,390
Yeah, it's like a little hairdryer.

721
00:26:25,630 --> 00:26:28,410
And then blows that onto the reel and

722
00:26:28,410 --> 00:26:30,410
bit by bit just pulls it out.

723
00:26:30,930 --> 00:26:31,590
Pulls it apart.

724
00:26:31,590 --> 00:26:31,690
Wow.

725
00:26:31,990 --> 00:26:33,590
And then he can actually get a transfer.

726
00:26:33,630 --> 00:26:34,590
Porno mag syndrome.

727
00:26:34,590 --> 00:26:35,830
And we use these big old...

728
00:26:39,490 --> 00:26:42,270
You must really, really want to see what's

729
00:26:42,270 --> 00:26:43,570
on or hear what's on that.

730
00:26:43,570 --> 00:26:44,370
Yeah, totally.

731
00:26:44,550 --> 00:26:45,530
Well, it's our job.

732
00:26:45,530 --> 00:26:48,830
It's not about something we really need to

733
00:26:48,830 --> 00:26:49,270
hear it.

734
00:26:49,670 --> 00:26:50,930
It's our job.

735
00:26:51,130 --> 00:26:53,810
So we get given these things and some

736
00:26:53,810 --> 00:26:55,810
things have been stored really quite poorly or

737
00:26:55,810 --> 00:26:57,970
they've been moved around or government departments have

738
00:26:57,970 --> 00:26:58,690
closed down.

739
00:26:59,130 --> 00:27:02,150
They've been put in boxes and stored and

740
00:27:02,150 --> 00:27:04,010
left to the elements and they come to

741
00:27:04,010 --> 00:27:06,010
us and it's not so much, oh, we

742
00:27:06,010 --> 00:27:06,850
really want to hear it.

743
00:27:06,850 --> 00:27:08,150
We have to hear it.

744
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:09,830
It's our job to get it off.

745
00:27:09,930 --> 00:27:10,290
We need it stashed away.

746
00:27:10,370 --> 00:27:11,990
We need to find what it is and

747
00:27:11,990 --> 00:27:13,130
then we need to record it.

748
00:27:13,250 --> 00:27:15,170
And it's really exciting.

749
00:27:15,630 --> 00:27:17,310
That's a really...

750
00:27:17,950 --> 00:27:19,730
We get given the resources.

751
00:27:20,390 --> 00:27:22,130
We get given the support and the time

752
00:27:22,130 --> 00:27:22,770
to do it.

753
00:27:23,350 --> 00:27:24,210
It's like archaeology.

754
00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:24,750
Yeah.

755
00:27:25,030 --> 00:27:26,770
I'm sure there's a bunch of top secret

756
00:27:26,770 --> 00:27:28,390
stuff along the way that you can't talk

757
00:27:28,390 --> 00:27:29,830
about, but is there anything that's come through

758
00:27:29,830 --> 00:27:32,410
that you've gone, wow, they recorded that?

759
00:27:32,570 --> 00:27:33,250
That's really great.

760
00:27:33,670 --> 00:27:37,850
I recently got to listen to a fantastic

761
00:27:37,850 --> 00:27:41,670
Nick Cave recording that he did when he

762
00:27:41,670 --> 00:27:43,470
was quite young and he was still living

763
00:27:43,470 --> 00:27:45,150
in Berlin, but he'd come back to Australia

764
00:27:45,150 --> 00:27:47,150
and he was sitting into...

765
00:27:47,150 --> 00:27:49,130
It was a program for the ABC that

766
00:27:49,130 --> 00:27:50,630
ran for a very long time and he

767
00:27:50,630 --> 00:27:53,030
read from a book and also sat and

768
00:27:53,030 --> 00:27:54,350
played at the piano and sung.

769
00:27:54,790 --> 00:27:56,130
It was beautifully recorded.

770
00:27:56,550 --> 00:27:59,650
The tape looked pretty damaged and we did

771
00:27:59,650 --> 00:28:02,150
some work to it and we cleaned it

772
00:28:02,150 --> 00:28:03,490
and we ran it through our cleaners and

773
00:28:03,490 --> 00:28:05,270
we rehydrated it and then we did a

774
00:28:05,270 --> 00:28:05,550
take.

775
00:28:05,690 --> 00:28:09,550
And just hearing a great recording, a young

776
00:28:09,550 --> 00:28:14,370
prolific artist coming from this beautifully recorded and

777
00:28:14,370 --> 00:28:17,610
engineered process and just hearing it from tape,

778
00:28:17,710 --> 00:28:19,110
it just sounded fantastic.

779
00:28:19,630 --> 00:28:20,890
Do you ever improve the recordings?

780
00:28:21,270 --> 00:28:23,410
Like if the original deck had Wow and

781
00:28:23,410 --> 00:28:26,110
Flutter on the input, do you ever try

782
00:28:26,110 --> 00:28:28,250
to go in and take out the Wow

783
00:28:28,250 --> 00:28:30,870
and Flutter from what would have been a

784
00:28:30,870 --> 00:28:31,590
flawed recording?

785
00:28:31,830 --> 00:28:33,150
Not the Preservation Master, no.

786
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:35,430
So I guess probably should go to that.

787
00:28:35,550 --> 00:28:38,330
We create a Preservation Master, which is just

788
00:28:38,330 --> 00:28:40,590
the transfer that I mentioned, the straight in.

789
00:28:40,990 --> 00:28:43,710
And then if a researcher or a member

790
00:28:43,710 --> 00:28:45,370
of the public wanted to access that and

791
00:28:45,370 --> 00:28:48,830
that was approved, we might then do some

792
00:28:48,830 --> 00:28:50,210
treatment, some editing even.

793
00:28:50,450 --> 00:28:51,650
Some restoration to it.

794
00:28:52,050 --> 00:28:53,610
To make it more...

795
00:28:53,610 --> 00:28:55,890
But generally as a rule, restoration is not

796
00:28:55,890 --> 00:28:57,310
part of what we're doing here.

797
00:28:58,010 --> 00:28:58,870
Where the brick lays.

798
00:28:59,130 --> 00:29:01,730
Way back before wax cylinders, I forget who

799
00:29:01,730 --> 00:29:03,070
it was, he came up with a system

800
00:29:03,070 --> 00:29:07,910
called audiograms and he was able to take

801
00:29:07,910 --> 00:29:11,910
a sketch of the waveform, but there was

802
00:29:11,910 --> 00:29:13,670
nothing to play it back.

803
00:29:14,230 --> 00:29:16,930
And then I think around 2000, early 2000s,

804
00:29:16,930 --> 00:29:19,650
I began taking these photographs or these audiograms,

805
00:29:20,150 --> 00:29:22,150
however he captured them, they would load into

806
00:29:22,150 --> 00:29:24,050
the computer and convert it back to a

807
00:29:24,050 --> 00:29:24,310
waveform.

808
00:29:24,770 --> 00:29:27,370
And it was literally captured in 18 whatever,

809
00:29:27,590 --> 00:29:30,630
60, and never played back until 2005.

810
00:29:32,650 --> 00:29:33,990
That's quite special, isn't it?

811
00:29:33,990 --> 00:29:34,790
That's amazing.

812
00:29:34,950 --> 00:29:36,990
Well, some of the broken...

813
00:29:37,510 --> 00:29:40,250
They now have a laser technology where they

814
00:29:40,250 --> 00:29:42,810
can look at broken shellac and they can

815
00:29:42,810 --> 00:29:44,390
grab the pieces.