NASA's Lucy Spacecraft Zooms Past Asteroid Donaldjohanson, Neutrino Mass Limit Set

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This is Space Time, Series 28,
Episode 49, for broadcast on the

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23rd of April, 2025. Coming up
on Space Time, NASA's Lucy

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spacecraft takes a closer look
at the asteroid Donald

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Johansson, the discovery of a
new upper limit for the mass of

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the neutrino, and intriguing
Martian rocky outcrops

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discovered on the rim of Jezero
Crater.

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All that and more coming up on
Space Time.

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Welcome to Space Time with
Stuart Gary.

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NASA's Lucy Mission to explore
Jupiter's Trojan asteroids is

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about to undertake a close flyby
of the main-built asteroid

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Donald Johansson.

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Lucy is passing within 960
kilometers of the

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3-kilometer-wide space rock
located between Mars and

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Jupiter. About 30 minutes before
closest approach, Lucy will

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orient itself to track the
asteroid, during which time its

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high-gain antenna will turn away
from the Earth, suspending

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communication. Guided by its
terminal tracking system, Lucy

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will autonomously rotate to keep
Donald Johansson in view.

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As it does this, Lucy will carry
out a complicated observing

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sequence. All three of its
science instruments, the

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high-gain resolution grayscale
imager called LORRI, The colour

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imager and infrared spectrometer
called LRALF and the far

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infrared spectrometer called
LITES will all carry out

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observation sequences very
similar to that which will take

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place when it encounters the
Trojan asteroids.

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One of the weird things about
these deep space missions is

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that it teaches scientists just
how slow the speed of light

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seems. Well, I guess it's all
relative. Lucy will be some 12.5

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light minutes away from the
Earth during the close flyby,

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meaning it will take that long
for the signals from Lucy to

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reach the Earth and another 12
and a half minutes before a

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response from the Earth gets
back to Lucy.

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This will be the second
asteroid-closing counter for

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Lucy, and will serve as a dress
rehearsal for the spacecraft's

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main targets, the
never-before-explored Jovian

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Trojan asteroids. Back in
November 2023, Lucy successfully

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observed the tiny mainboat
asteroid Dinkanesh at its small

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contact binary moon, Salem.

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A report in the Planetary
Science Journal claims new

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modelling indicates that Donald
Johansson may have formed about

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150 million years ago, when a
larger parent asteroid broke

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apart. When Lucy flies past the
space rock, the data collected

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will provide additional
independent insights into the

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asteroid's shape, surface
geology and cratering history.

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Lucy's deputy principal
investigator, Simone Marchi from

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the Southwest Research Institute
in Boulder, Colorado, says based

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on ground-based observations,
Donald Johansson appears to be a

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peculiar object. And
understanding the formation of

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this asteroid could help explain
some of those peculiarities.

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Data indicates that it could be
quite elongated and a slow

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rotator, possibly due to thermal
torques which have slowed down

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its spin over time. It's a
common type of asteroid,

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composed of silicate rocks and
perhaps containing clays and

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organic matter. The new study
also indicates that Donald

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Johansson is likely to be a
member of the Aragon Collisional

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Asteroid Family.

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That's a group of asteroids all
on similar orbits that were

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created when the larger parent
body broke apart. The family

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originated from the inner main
asteroid belt, not very far from

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the source regions of the
near-Earth asteroids Bennu and

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Ryugu. They were recently
visited respectively by NASA's

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OSIRIS-REx and JAXA's Hayabusa 2
missions.

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As for the asteroid's name,
Donald Johansson, well, it's the

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name of the paleontologist who
discovered Lucy, a fossilized

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Australopithecus hominid
skeleton found in Ethiopia in

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1974. Which, by the way, is how
the Lucy Mission got its name.

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Just as Lucy the fossil provided
unique insights into the origins

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of humanity, Lucy the Mission
promises to revolutionize

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science's understanding of the
origins of humanity's home

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world.

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Donald Johansson's also the only
named asteroid yet to be

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visited, while its namesake is
still living. The Lucy Mission's

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principal investigator, Hal
Leveson, also from the Southwest

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Research Institute, says the
Mission plans to visit 11

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asteroids during its 12-year
tour.

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The Trojan asteroids are located
in two swarms, one about 60

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degrees ahead, the other 60
degrees behind the giant gas

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planet Jupiter. The asteroids
are kept in these orbital

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positions, ahead of and behind
Jupiter, thanks to the areas

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being gravitational wells, known
as the Lagrange L4 and L5

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positions. These Trojans are
considered relics, effectively

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fossils of the planetary
formation process.

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Therefore, they hold vital clues
to deciphering the history of

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our solar system. Levison says
encounters with main-built

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asteroids not only provide a
close-up view of these bodies

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themselves, but also allow
scientists to perform

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engineering tests on the
spacecraft's navigation systems

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before the main event to study
the Trojans.

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This report on the Lucy Mission
from NASA TV.

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About 150 million years ago,
Earth's most recent

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supercontinent was in the
process of breaking up.

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Sauropods dominated the lush,
slowly separating landmass that

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would become today's familiar
continents.

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Meanwhile, in the asteroid belt,
a breakup of a different sort

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was taking place. The large
asteroid 163 Origani was

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pummeled in a collision,
shedding debris to form a new

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family of asteroids.

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Fast forward to 3.2 million
years ago. Long after the fall

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of the dinosaurs when an early
hominin walked upright through

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an Ethiopian river valley.

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Now, a robotic explorer named
for our most famous human

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ancestor is heading to a member
of the origami asteroid family,

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en route to the fossils of
planetary formation.

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Liftoff.

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Five takes flight.

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NASA's Lucy Mission launched in
October 2021 and flew past Earth

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in 2022 and 2024. For a pair of
gravity assists. In early 2025,

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Lucy entered the main asteroid
belt, on course for humanity's

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first encounter with 52246
Donald Johanson. The asteroid

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was named in honor of the
paleoanthropologist who

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discovered the Lucy fossil in
1974, rewriting the textbooks on

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human origins.

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While asteroid Donald Johanson
has never been seen up close,

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its brightness varies greatly as
it rotates, suggesting an

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elongated shape. It is a member
of the origami family of

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asteroids, made from fragments
of the collision that took place

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about 150 million years ago.

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Earth-based observations suggest
that Donald Johansson is

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carbon-rich, has an average
diameter of about 4 kilometers,

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and spins on its axis extremely
slowly, giving it a 251-hour

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day.

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Lucy will approach Donald
Johansson from the direction of

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the Sun, traveling 13.4
kilometers per second. Relative

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to the asteroid. As its target
grows near, the spacecraft will

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slowly rotate, keeping the
asteroid in view. Over the

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course of a few hours, Donald
Johanson will transform, from a

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point of light, into a detailed
world.

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Lucy's Long Range Reconnaissance
Imager will capture

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high-resolution pictures
throughout the flyby, providing

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our best look yet at the
asteroid.

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Just before closest approach,
when Lucy is about 900

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kilometers from its target, It
will abruptly turn its

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instrument-pointing platform
away from the Sun to protect its

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sensitive electronics.

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Shortly after the flyby, Lucy
will perform a pitch-back

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maneuver, changing the direction
of its rotation to turn its

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high-gain antenna toward Earth.
Two hours later, data from Lucy

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will deliver the first close-up
views of Donald Johanson, a

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surviving remnant of the solar
system's chaotic past.

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Following the flyby, Lucy will
continue to pass through the

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main asteroid belt. In August
2027, it will reach Euripides,

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an asteroid more than 10 times
larger than Donald Johanson and

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a member of the Jupiter Trojans.
These primordial and primitive

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objects are trapped in Jupiter's
orbit and are considered the

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fossils of planetary formation.

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Between 2027 and 2033, Lucy will
make five separate encounters

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with Trojan asteroids and their
moons. It will become the first

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spacecraft to explore this
ancient population, asteroids

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more than 1,000 times older than
our most famous human ancestor,

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formed at the dawn of the solar
system, long before dinosaurs

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ruled the Earth.

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This is Space Time. Still to
come, discovery of a new upper

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limit for the massive neutrinos,
and intriguing Martian rock

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outcrops discovered on the rim
of Jezero Crater. All that and

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more still to come on Space
Time.

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A new study has discovered the
mass of one of the most

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enigmatic particles in the
universe, the neutrino. The

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results show that the neutrino's
mass is less than 0.45 electron

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volts, in other words, less than
a millionth the mass of an

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electron.

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The findings, reported in the
journal Science, reduces the

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particle's known mass range by a
factor of two. It tightens the

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constraints on one of the
universe's most elusive

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fundamental particles, and
pushes the boundaries of science

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beyond the standard model of
particle physics. The

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cornerstone of science's
understanding of the universe.

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Neutrinos are elemental
subatomic particles. They're

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generated through radioactive
decay in stars, in supernovae,

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00:11:03,918 --> 00:11:07,119
in nuclear explosions, in
particle accelerators, and in

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atomic reactors.

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The neutrino is so named because
it's electrically neutral, and

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because its rest mass is so
small, it was once thought to be

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zero. They are the most common
form of matter in the universe,

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having almost no mass, and
capable of being accelerated to

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almost the speed of light.

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00:11:23,547 --> 00:11:26,730
Neutrinos come in three known
types or flavors.

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Electroneutrinos, neon
neutrinos, and tau neutrinos,

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00:11:31,573 --> 00:11:34,875
each with their own specific
properties. Now, confusingly,

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the three flavors of neutrinos
don't line up with the three

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suspected mass species. It seems
that each of the three flavors

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00:11:42,060 --> 00:11:44,742
is made up of a quantum mixture
of the three mass species.

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00:11:45,062 --> 00:11:48,124
So, for example, a particular
tau neutrino has bits of all

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three mass species in it. And
those different mass species

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seem to oscillate between the
three flavors. For example, an

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electron neutrino produced in
say a beta decay reaction could

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00:11:58,830 --> 00:12:01,932
interact in a distant detector
as a muon or tau neutrino.

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00:12:02,673 --> 00:12:05,514
Now although they don't have any
electric charge, neutrinos do

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have their own corresponding
antimatter counterparts,

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identified by their opposite
chirality or handedness.

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00:12:11,718 --> 00:12:14,880
Neutrinos interact with other
matter only through gravity and

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the weak nuclear force.

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00:12:16,381 --> 00:12:18,743
In fact, they're so weakly
interactive that right now

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several trillion are passing
through you every second, and

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you don't even notice them.
Precisely measuring the neutrino

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mass is therefore essential for
a complete understanding of the

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fundamental laws of physics.

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Now the other key term in this
research is the electron volt.

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00:12:34,117 --> 00:12:36,779
That's a basic unit of particle
energy, the amount of energy

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lost or gained by a single
electron accelerating from rest

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through an electric potential
difference of one volt in a

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00:12:42,604 --> 00:12:43,065
vacuum.

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00:12:43,677 --> 00:12:46,820
And, thanks to Professor Albert
Einstein's famous mass-energy

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00:12:46,900 --> 00:12:50,102
equivalence equation, E equals
mc squared, energy equals mass

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00:12:50,142 --> 00:12:52,584
times the speed of light
squared, it's also used as a

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00:12:52,644 --> 00:12:55,086
unit of particle mass in physics
and astronomy.

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00:12:56,247 --> 00:12:58,850
The new findings by the
Karlsruhe Tritium Neutrino

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00:12:58,910 --> 00:13:02,312
Experiment, CATRON, utilizes the
beta decay of tritium, an

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00:13:02,352 --> 00:13:06,576
unstable hydrogen isotope, to
assess neutrino mass. The energy

235
00:13:06,656 --> 00:13:09,418
distribution of the electrons
resulting from the decay enables

236
00:13:09,438 --> 00:13:12,541
a direct kinematic determination
of the neutrino's mass.

237
00:13:13,261 --> 00:13:16,143
Catrin uses a 70-meter-long
beamline equipped with an

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00:13:16,144 --> 00:13:18,906
intense tritium source and a
high-resolution spectrometer

239
00:13:18,986 --> 00:13:22,548
with a diameter of 10 meters.
This allows extremely precise

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00:13:22,588 --> 00:13:24,290
neutrino mass determinations.

241
00:13:24,870 --> 00:13:27,632
The latest findings indicate
neutrinos are at least a million

242
00:13:27,733 --> 00:13:30,034
times lighter than electrons,
which are the lightest

243
00:13:30,114 --> 00:13:33,797
electrically charged elementary
particles. But explaining this

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00:13:33,837 --> 00:13:36,660
enormous mass difference remains
a fundamental challenge for

245
00:13:36,740 --> 00:13:38,161
theoretical particle physics.

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00:13:39,241 --> 00:13:42,143
Starting next year, a new
detector system, Tristan, will

247
00:13:42,144 --> 00:13:45,346
be installed. This upgrade to
the experiment will allow

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00:13:45,486 --> 00:13:48,489
scientists to search for a
hypothetical sterol particle,

249
00:13:48,589 --> 00:13:52,232
which interacts even more feebly
than known neutrinos. In fact,

250
00:13:52,252 --> 00:13:55,134
with the mass expected to be in
the kilo-electron-volt range, a

251
00:13:55,214 --> 00:13:59,017
sterol neutrino is potentially a
candidate for dark matter.

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00:13:59,838 --> 00:14:04,642
This is space-time. Still to
come, intriguing Martian rocky

253
00:14:04,742 --> 00:14:07,664
outcrops discovered on the rim
of Jezero Crater, and later in

254
00:14:07,665 --> 00:14:11,143
the science report, It seems the
weather really does now suddenly

255
00:14:11,163 --> 00:14:14,767
go from boiling to freezing a
lot more than it used to. All

256
00:14:14,807 --> 00:14:17,731
that and more still to come on
Space Time.

257
00:14:33,313 --> 00:14:36,836
NASA's Mars Perseverance rovers
discovered a cornucopia full of

258
00:14:36,856 --> 00:14:40,619
intriguing rocky outcrops on the
rim of Jezero Crater. Mission

259
00:14:40,639 --> 00:14:43,330
managers say the diversity of
the rock types along the crater

260
00:14:43,330 --> 00:14:46,224
's edge are offering scientists
a wide glimpse of Martian

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00:14:46,264 --> 00:14:49,646
history. See, studying rocks,
boulders and outcrops help

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00:14:49,706 --> 00:14:52,909
scientists understand the planet
's evolution history and the

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00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:55,351
potential for past or even
present habitability.

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00:14:56,132 --> 00:14:59,434
Since January, the rovers cored
five rock samples on the crater

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00:14:59,474 --> 00:15:03,430
rim, sealing samples from three
of them in its sample tubes. It

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00:15:03,430 --> 00:15:06,210
's also performed close-up
analysis of seven rocks and

267
00:15:06,250 --> 00:15:09,872
analysed another 83 from afar by
zapping them with a laser and

268
00:15:09,932 --> 00:15:12,213
monitoring the spectral
emissions of the vapour being

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00:15:12,273 --> 00:15:12,773
released.

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00:15:13,413 --> 00:15:15,714
In fact, this has been the
Mission's fastest science

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00:15:15,734 --> 00:15:18,695
collection tempo since the
Sixfield Mobile Laboratory first

272
00:15:18,775 --> 00:15:21,965
landed on the Red Planet four
years ago. Perseverance spent

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00:15:22,005 --> 00:15:24,528
three and a half months climbing
the western wall of Jezero

274
00:15:24,668 --> 00:15:27,912
Crater, eventually reaching the
rim on December the 12th last

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00:15:27,972 --> 00:15:28,292
year.

276
00:15:29,093 --> 00:15:32,277
It's currently exploring a
roughly 135 meter tall slope

277
00:15:32,278 --> 00:15:35,841
which the science team calls
Witch Hazel Hill. The diversity

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00:15:35,842 --> 00:15:39,445
of the rocks found there has
gone far beyond expectations.

279
00:15:40,106 --> 00:15:43,229
Perseverance project scientist
Katie Stack Morgan from NASA's

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00:15:43,269 --> 00:15:46,011
Jet Propulsion Laboratory in
Pasadena, California, says that

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00:15:46,051 --> 00:15:48,513
during previous science
campaigns in Jezero, it would

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00:15:48,533 --> 00:15:51,315
take several months to find a
rock that was significantly

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00:15:51,435 --> 00:15:54,157
different from the last rock
sampled and scientifically

284
00:15:54,237 --> 00:15:57,379
unique enough for sampling. But
up there on the rim, there are

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00:15:57,380 --> 00:15:59,740
new and intriguing rocks
everywhere the rover turns.

286
00:16:00,421 --> 00:16:03,723
That's because Jezero Crater's
western rim contains tons of

287
00:16:03,803 --> 00:16:06,545
fragmented, once molten rocks
that were knocked out of their

288
00:16:06,605 --> 00:16:09,988
subterranean home billions of
years ago by one or more meteor

289
00:16:10,048 --> 00:16:13,109
impacts. Including possibly the
one that produced Jezero Crater

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00:16:13,110 --> 00:16:13,949
in the first place.

291
00:16:14,530 --> 00:16:17,571
Perseverance is finding these
formerly underground boulders

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00:16:17,651 --> 00:16:19,752
just in position with
well-preserved layered rocks

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00:16:19,792 --> 00:16:22,593
that were born billions of years
ago on what would become the

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00:16:22,633 --> 00:16:26,235
crater's rim. Perseverance
collected its first crater rim

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00:16:26,295 --> 00:16:29,536
rock sample, named Silver
Mountain, back on January 28.

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00:16:30,296 --> 00:16:33,037
NASA scientists informally named
Martian features, including

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00:16:33,117 --> 00:16:36,139
rocks and separate rock samples,
in order to help keep track of

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00:16:36,140 --> 00:16:39,640
them. The rock it came from,
called Shallow Bay, most likely

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00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,162
formed at least 3.9 billion
years ago, during Mars' earliest

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00:16:43,182 --> 00:16:45,724
geologic period known as the
Noachian, and it may have been

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00:16:45,804 --> 00:16:48,225
broken up and then
recrystallized during an ancient

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00:16:48,305 --> 00:16:49,266
meteor impact.

303
00:16:49,926 --> 00:16:53,108
About 110 meters away from that
sampling site is a rock outcrop

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00:16:53,128 --> 00:16:55,670
that caught the science team's
eye because it contains igneous

305
00:16:55,790 --> 00:16:58,671
minerals crystallized from magma
from deep within the Martian

306
00:16:58,751 --> 00:17:02,734
Crust. Igneous rocks can form
deep underground from magma or

307
00:17:02,754 --> 00:17:05,615
from volcanic activity on the
surface, and they're excellent

308
00:17:05,715 --> 00:17:06,596
record keepers.

309
00:17:06,756 --> 00:17:09,238
That's because the mineral
crystals within them preserve

310
00:17:09,338 --> 00:17:13,241
details about the precise moment
they were formed. But after two

311
00:17:13,321 --> 00:17:15,763
coring attempts in early
February fizzled due to the rock

312
00:17:15,823 --> 00:17:19,305
being so crumbly, the rover
drove about 160 metres northwest

313
00:17:19,306 --> 00:17:21,647
to another scientifically
intriguing rock named

314
00:17:21,687 --> 00:17:22,507
Tablelands.

315
00:17:23,208 --> 00:17:25,069
Data from the rover's
instruments indicate that

316
00:17:25,149 --> 00:17:28,332
Tablelands is made of almost
entirely serpentine minerals.

317
00:17:28,752 --> 00:17:31,254
They were formed when large
amounts of water reacted with

318
00:17:31,514 --> 00:17:35,136
iron and magnesium-bearing
minerals in igneous rock. During

319
00:17:35,156 --> 00:17:37,338
this process, the rock's
original structure is

320
00:17:37,378 --> 00:17:40,299
mineralogically changed, often
causing it to expand and

321
00:17:40,339 --> 00:17:40,840
fracture.

322
00:17:41,440 --> 00:17:44,402
Byproducts of this process
sometimes include hydrogen gas,

323
00:17:44,522 --> 00:17:47,083
which can lead to the generation
of methane in the presence of

324
00:17:47,103 --> 00:17:50,285
carbon dioxide. And on Earth,
these sorts of rocks are known

325
00:17:50,286 --> 00:17:54,468
to support microbial colonies.
Corig Tablelands went smoothly,

326
00:17:54,648 --> 00:17:57,830
but sealing it in the canister
became an engineering challenge.

327
00:17:58,631 --> 00:18:02,133
Over thirteen Sols or Martian
days, Mission managers used a

328
00:18:02,153 --> 00:18:05,676
tool to brush out the top of the
tube 33 times, making eight

329
00:18:05,836 --> 00:18:06,677
sealing attempts.

330
00:18:07,458 --> 00:18:10,580
Finally, at the start of March,
a combination of flicks and

331
00:18:10,660 --> 00:18:14,244
brushings cleaned the tube's top
enough for Perseverance to seal

332
00:18:14,304 --> 00:18:17,987
and store the serpentine-laden
rock sample. Eight days later,

333
00:18:18,107 --> 00:18:21,410
the rover had no issues sealing
a third sample rock, this one

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00:18:21,490 --> 00:18:22,351
called Main River.

335
00:18:23,071 --> 00:18:25,934
The alternating bright and dark
bands of this rock were like

336
00:18:26,014 --> 00:18:29,204
nothing seen before by the
science team. Following the

337
00:18:29,224 --> 00:18:31,846
collection of the Main River
sample, the rovers continued

338
00:18:31,886 --> 00:18:34,648
exploring Witch Hazel Hill,
analysing three more rocky

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00:18:34,748 --> 00:18:39,472
outcrops, Sally's Grove, Dennis
Pond and Mount Pearl. This is

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00:18:39,672 --> 00:18:40,492
Space Time.

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00:18:43,274 --> 00:18:46,476
This episode of Space Time is
brought to you by Incogni. Just

342
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when it comes to your personal
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345
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See, every time you sign up for
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search for a product on the net
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your data is being scooped up by
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348
00:19:04,789 --> 00:19:07,211
Now, these are folks who
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00:19:07,251 --> 00:19:10,213
personal information, often
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that's where Incogni comes in.

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control by getting your data
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those brokers. And they do all
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354
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following up and making sure

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privacy.

358
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And right now, Space Time
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SpaceTime. That's I-N-C-O-G-N-I
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362
00:19:49,299 --> 00:19:49,780
Incogni.

363
00:20:02,892 --> 00:20:04,693
Time now to take another brief
look at some of the other

364
00:20:04,733 --> 00:20:07,934
stories making news in science
this week with a science report.

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00:20:08,754 --> 00:20:11,155
Well, if you feel like the
weather's suddenly going from

366
00:20:11,235 --> 00:20:13,736
boiling hot to freezing cold
more than it used to, you may

367
00:20:13,796 --> 00:20:17,137
well be right. A new study
reported in the journal Nature

368
00:20:17,177 --> 00:20:20,078
Communications shows that
Australia is one of the regions

369
00:20:20,098 --> 00:20:22,439
in the world where rapid
temperature flips from hot to

370
00:20:22,499 --> 00:20:25,160
cold or vice versa are occurring
most frequently.

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00:20:25,864 --> 00:20:28,386
Researchers found that these
flips have increased in

372
00:20:28,446 --> 00:20:33,129
frequency, intensity and
transition speed since 1961. In

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00:20:33,130 --> 00:20:35,551
fact, the studies found that
Australia has seen some of the

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00:20:35,591 --> 00:20:38,413
largest increases in frequency
of these temperature flips over

375
00:20:38,433 --> 00:20:39,814
the past 60 years.

376
00:20:41,355 --> 00:20:44,137
A new study claims that
lab-grown chicken nuggets could

377
00:20:44,138 --> 00:20:47,800
be a reality in the near future.
A report in the journal Trends

378
00:20:47,840 --> 00:20:50,542
In Biotechnology claims the
prediction comes after

379
00:20:50,582 --> 00:20:53,384
researchers produced over 10
grams of cultured chicken

380
00:20:53,444 --> 00:20:56,831
muscle. The authors used a
hollow-fibre bioreactor which

381
00:20:56,871 --> 00:21:00,155
mimics the circulatory system to
deliver nutrients and oxygen to

382
00:21:00,275 --> 00:21:01,276
artificial tissue.

383
00:21:01,997 --> 00:21:05,341
And a robot-assisted assembly
system then produces bite-sized

384
00:21:05,401 --> 00:21:09,005
pieces of whole-cut chicken meat
using chicken fibroblast cells

385
00:21:09,105 --> 00:21:12,469
which make up connective tissue.
While researchers say they're

386
00:21:12,509 --> 00:21:15,092
still working to improve the
taste and texture, the

387
00:21:15,112 --> 00:21:17,954
technology could one day provide
a sustainable ethical

388
00:21:18,014 --> 00:21:20,716
alternative to conventional
meat, as well as a platform for

389
00:21:20,776 --> 00:21:23,658
regenerative medicine like
growing organs and for soft

390
00:21:23,758 --> 00:21:24,318
robots.

391
00:21:26,080 --> 00:21:29,222
Psychologists are now warning
about the potential dangers of

392
00:21:29,242 --> 00:21:33,505
having a relationship with your
AI chatbot. In an opinion piece

393
00:21:33,506 --> 00:21:36,106
in the journal Trends in
Cognitive Sciences, the authors

394
00:21:36,186 --> 00:21:39,228
say that because AI-human
relationships can seem easier

395
00:21:39,248 --> 00:21:42,851
than human-human relationships,
AIs could interfere with normal

396
00:21:42,931 --> 00:21:44,312
human social dynamics.

397
00:21:44,948 --> 00:21:47,309
But the authors are also
concerned that AIs can offer

398
00:21:47,389 --> 00:21:50,751
harmful advice. They note at
least two people are known to

399
00:21:50,752 --> 00:21:54,512
have killed themselves following
AI chatbot advice. And while

400
00:21:54,532 --> 00:21:57,454
these suicides are an extreme
example of this negative

401
00:21:57,494 --> 00:22:00,555
influence, the researchers say
that these close human-AI

402
00:22:00,615 --> 00:22:03,436
relationships could open up
people to manipulation,

403
00:22:03,636 --> 00:22:05,537
exploitation, and fraud.

404
00:22:07,258 --> 00:22:10,519
Tech giant Google has lost a
major antitrust case in the

405
00:22:10,540 --> 00:22:14,262
United States. The U.S. Justice
Department, together with 17

406
00:22:14,302 --> 00:22:17,104
American states, sued Google,
arguing the tech giant was

407
00:22:17,204 --> 00:22:19,785
illegally dominating the
technology, which determines

408
00:22:19,865 --> 00:22:22,547
which adverts should be placed
online and where.

409
00:22:23,288 --> 00:22:26,210
This is the second antitrust
case Google has lost in a year,

410
00:22:26,390 --> 00:22:29,712
after it ruled the company also
had a monopoly on online search.

411
00:22:30,392 --> 00:22:32,854
With the details, we're joined
by technology editor Alex

412
00:22:32,874 --> 00:22:35,476
Saharov-Reut from
TechAdvice.life.

413
00:22:35,696 --> 00:22:39,098
Well, a federal judge has ruled
that Google has violated U.S.

414
00:22:39,319 --> 00:22:42,200
Antitrust laws, And he says
that... They've done that by

415
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:46,283
willfully acquiring and
maintaining monopoly power in

416
00:22:46,284 --> 00:22:50,825
the ad market. Now, the actual
advertising business itself was

417
00:22:50,965 --> 00:22:56,268
not seen to be a monopoly, but
the publisher side ad tech did

418
00:22:56,428 --> 00:22:58,709
constitute illegal
monopolization.

419
00:22:58,729 --> 00:23:01,471
Now, there's fines of
potentially up to $100 million

420
00:23:01,611 --> 00:23:05,033
for corporations and $1 million
for individuals. And look, a

421
00:23:05,193 --> 00:23:07,914
judgment has yet to be made on
what's going to happen. You

422
00:23:07,994 --> 00:23:11,280
could see Google force divest
some of its ad business. And

423
00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:13,242
really, Google is not a search
engine. It's really an

424
00:23:13,262 --> 00:23:14,143
advertising business.

425
00:23:14,223 --> 00:23:17,585
It's more than just the
divestment. It could see the

426
00:23:17,625 --> 00:23:19,487
entire conglomerate broken up,
couldn't it?

427
00:23:19,488 --> 00:23:22,249
Well, anything is possible. And
that would put into question how

428
00:23:22,409 --> 00:23:25,552
strong Google's AI systems will
be because, I mean, I'm sure it

429
00:23:25,572 --> 00:23:28,554
relies upon lots of different
information from all these

430
00:23:28,594 --> 00:23:29,355
different sources.

431
00:23:29,695 --> 00:23:32,538
One of the things we saw with
Elon Musk is that his AI

432
00:23:32,918 --> 00:23:37,182
business, which produces Brock,
and has 200,000 of those

433
00:23:37,183 --> 00:23:40,324
commercial NVIDIA chips and a
massive computing system. I

434
00:23:40,325 --> 00:23:44,528
mean, it purchased the X
platform for US $33 billion, and

435
00:23:44,548 --> 00:23:49,011
that gives Roth the ability to
mine trillions of X posts for

436
00:23:49,012 --> 00:23:52,194
the most updated information. So
this battle is being fought

437
00:23:52,234 --> 00:23:53,395
across several fronts.

438
00:23:53,635 --> 00:23:56,778
And look, it is true that Google
does have a very strong, a

439
00:23:56,878 --> 00:23:59,900
massively strong position in
advertising, and that's why the

440
00:24:00,060 --> 00:24:03,143
Ferman Antitrust Laws were put
in place. Now, judges rule that

441
00:24:03,243 --> 00:24:05,965
Google is in violation, and 2025
is going to be a very

442
00:24:06,085 --> 00:24:06,626
interesting year.

443
00:24:06,726 --> 00:24:08,287
New update for iPhones?

444
00:24:08,387 --> 00:24:11,709
Yeah, 18.4%. Point one. I mean,
it's also available for the iPad

445
00:24:11,729 --> 00:24:14,649
and there's updates for your
Macs and Apple TVs and other

446
00:24:14,669 --> 00:24:18,070
devices. But this particular
one, besides the usual security

447
00:24:18,250 --> 00:24:21,351
bug fixes, it also fixes a
problem where sometimes your

448
00:24:21,411 --> 00:24:23,772
phone, your iPhone is not
connecting to your CarPlay.

449
00:24:23,912 --> 00:24:26,293
I haven't particularly seen that
one myself, but that is

450
00:24:26,533 --> 00:24:30,254
definitely a reason to upgrade.
And Apple is also saying that we

451
00:24:30,274 --> 00:24:33,394
should expect to see more Apple
intelligence features in the US

452
00:24:33,494 --> 00:24:36,075
fall, which is the Australian
spring. So a little bit behind

453
00:24:36,115 --> 00:24:38,576
on its AI features, but it's
trying obviously as hard as

454
00:24:38,596 --> 00:24:41,378
possible. To catch up because
this is the new reality.

455
00:24:41,598 --> 00:24:44,840
That's Alex Harabroyd from
TechAdvice.life.

456
00:25:00,471 --> 00:25:04,033
And that's the show for now.
Space Time is available every

457
00:25:04,133 --> 00:25:07,594
Monday, Wednesday, and Friday
through Apple Podcasts, ITunes,

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Stitcher, Google Podcasts,
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Amazon Music, Bytes.Com,
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favorite podcast download
provider, and from

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spacetimewithstuartgarry.com.

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Space Time's also broadcast
through the National Science

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Foundation on Science Zone Radio
and on both IHeart Radio and

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TuneIn Radio. And you can help
to support our show by visiting

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the Space Time store for a range
of promotional merchandising

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goodies.

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Or by becoming a Space Time
patron, which gives you access

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to triple-episode
commercial-free versions of the

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show, as well as lots of bonus
audio content which doesn't go

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to air, access to our exclusive
Facebook group and other

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rewards. Just go to
spacetimewithstuartgary.com for

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full details.

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00:25:54,512 --> 00:25:56,896
You've been listening to
SpaceTime with Stuart Gary.

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00:25:57,617 --> 00:26:00,362
This has been another quality
podcast production from

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Bytes.Com.