Wormholes, Artemis 2 Updates & The Einstein Cross Explained

WEBVTT

0
00:00:00.000 --> 00:00:00.480
Andrew Dunkley: Hi there.

1
00:00:00.480 --> 00:00:02.400
Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for joining us yet again. This is

2
00:00:02.400 --> 00:00:04.600
Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunkley, your

3
00:00:04.600 --> 00:00:06.640
host and it is so good to have your company

4
00:00:07.280 --> 00:00:10.160
and I hope you're well. Uh, coming up on this

5
00:00:10.160 --> 00:00:12.640
particular episode, Artemis 2.

6
00:00:12.960 --> 00:00:15.560
Yes, the mission to the moon. Uh, we have an

7
00:00:15.560 --> 00:00:17.760
update for you and it's really good news.

8
00:00:18.560 --> 00:00:21.040
Could we have discovered a wormhole?

9
00:00:21.360 --> 00:00:24.280
That's a big question. And an Einstein cross

10
00:00:24.280 --> 00:00:26.730
has been spotted. They marked it with a cross

11
00:00:26.730 --> 00:00:28.770
and then drew a circle around it. That's all

12
00:00:28.770 --> 00:00:31.690
coming up on this edition of space nuts.

13
00:00:31.770 --> 00:00:34.250
Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

14
00:00:34.490 --> 00:00:37.130
10, 9. Ignition

15
00:00:37.130 --> 00:00:40.094
sequence star space nuts. 5, 4, 3,

16
00:00:40.166 --> 00:00:42.974
2. 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,

17
00:00:43.046 --> 00:00:46.010
3, 2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts

18
00:00:46.010 --> 00:00:47.210
report it feels good.

19
00:00:47.610 --> 00:00:50.170
Andrew Dunkley: And he's here again to unravel

20
00:00:50.410 --> 00:00:52.600
all the revelment of space space

21
00:00:52.920 --> 00:00:55.040
science. His name is Professor Fred Watson

22
00:00:55.040 --> 00:00:56.640
Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,

23
00:00:56.640 --> 00:00:57.000
Fred Watson.

24
00:00:57.240 --> 00:00:59.200
Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. I think actually we're

25
00:00:59.200 --> 00:01:00.960
probably as good at, uh, ravelling it as we

26
00:01:00.960 --> 00:01:02.440
are unravelling it. Really.

27
00:01:02.440 --> 00:01:05.200
Andrew Dunkley: I, I tend to agree. Yes, you're

28
00:01:05.200 --> 00:01:06.040
absolutely right.

29
00:01:06.440 --> 00:01:09.120
Before we get into today's top topics,

30
00:01:09.120 --> 00:01:12.110
you are, um, uh, in Melbourne, I believe, uh,

31
00:01:12.280 --> 00:01:13.640
attending, uh, a conference.

32
00:01:13.720 --> 00:01:16.480
Professor Fred Watson: I am, yes. Uh, sunny Melbourne, which

33
00:01:16.480 --> 00:01:18.320
isn't at the moment, although it was briefly

34
00:01:18.320 --> 00:01:20.400
this morning. Four seasons in one day is what

35
00:01:20.400 --> 00:01:21.260
they say about Melbourne.

36
00:01:21.260 --> 00:01:22.840
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, reputation for that.

37
00:01:23.080 --> 00:01:25.700
Professor Fred Watson: I think we' already this week.

38
00:01:25.940 --> 00:01:28.540
So, um, the conference I'm at is at Deakin

39
00:01:28.540 --> 00:01:30.660
University here in Melbourne. It is called

40
00:01:30.740 --> 00:01:33.460
Astro. Edu or Astro

41
00:01:33.460 --> 00:01:35.860
Edu, um, for Astronomy Education

42
00:01:36.100 --> 00:01:38.740
2025. And it's actually an international

43
00:01:38.900 --> 00:01:41.260
conference, Uh, I think I'm right in saying

44
00:01:41.260 --> 00:01:42.340
it's sponsored by the International

45
00:01:42.500 --> 00:01:45.460
Astronomical Union. Um, so

46
00:01:45.460 --> 00:01:46.980
it's a conference of international

47
00:01:48.020 --> 00:01:50.910
astronomy educators. And so quite a

48
00:01:50.910 --> 00:01:53.630
lot of it is about the

49
00:01:53.630 --> 00:01:55.990
theory of education, as,

50
00:01:56.710 --> 00:01:58.310
you know, applied to astronomy education.

51
00:01:58.790 --> 00:02:00.710
Quite a lot of it is about the practise of

52
00:02:00.870 --> 00:02:02.870
astronomy education. So there are real

53
00:02:02.870 --> 00:02:05.840
teachers here, uh, who teach kids, um,

54
00:02:05.840 --> 00:02:08.790
you know, from kindergarten to year

55
00:02:09.110 --> 00:02:11.590
12, uh, and university as well.

56
00:02:11.990 --> 00:02:14.830
Um, and um, one or two astronomers as well.

57
00:02:14.830 --> 00:02:17.300
And we're there because we're interested in

58
00:02:17.300 --> 00:02:19.940
education. I'm, um, only an amateur

59
00:02:19.940 --> 00:02:22.180
educator, but a professional astronomer. So

60
00:02:22.420 --> 00:02:25.380
my talk yesterday was about the

61
00:02:25.700 --> 00:02:28.180
possibilities for using mega

62
00:02:28.180 --> 00:02:29.940
constellations in astronomy education.

63
00:02:30.180 --> 00:02:31.980
Because there's quite a number of ideas that

64
00:02:31.980 --> 00:02:34.580
come out of, you know, what we and you and I

65
00:02:34.580 --> 00:02:36.780
talk about routinely. Uh, the mega

66
00:02:36.780 --> 00:02:39.540
constellations, um, a lot of astronomy

67
00:02:39.620 --> 00:02:42.460
in that. And in terms of, um, trying

68
00:02:42.460 --> 00:02:44.870
to, uh, perhaps,

69
00:02:44.950 --> 00:02:47.870
uh, provide some, um,

70
00:02:47.870 --> 00:02:50.590
background in astronomy education that might

71
00:02:50.590 --> 00:02:53.090
otherwise, um, be missed. Um,

72
00:02:53.430 --> 00:02:55.150
and I'm thinking of things like, you know,

73
00:02:55.150 --> 00:02:56.350
how you measure the brightness of the

74
00:02:56.350 --> 00:02:58.390
satellites. We use the star magnitudes the

75
00:02:58.390 --> 00:03:00.390
same as we do in astronomy. Uh, why

76
00:03:00.390 --> 00:03:03.150
satellites are bright themselves, why radio

77
00:03:03.150 --> 00:03:05.760
telescopes are at great risk from satellite,

78
00:03:05.760 --> 00:03:07.750
uh, constellations, all of the above.

79
00:03:08.060 --> 00:03:10.860
Um, but um, my talk aside,

80
00:03:10.860 --> 00:03:12.900
which was a minor contribution to this

81
00:03:12.900 --> 00:03:14.420
conference, there have been some fantastic

82
00:03:14.420 --> 00:03:17.260
presentations, um, really encouraging

83
00:03:17.260 --> 00:03:19.100
about the state of astronomy education

84
00:03:20.380 --> 00:03:23.020
in lands as far apart as

85
00:03:23.420 --> 00:03:26.300
Chile, uh, and uh, Germany

86
00:03:26.300 --> 00:03:28.940
and Belgium, Sweden,

87
00:03:29.340 --> 00:03:32.140
Portugal, North America, Canada.

88
00:03:32.780 --> 00:03:34.980
Inspiring presentation from Canada this

89
00:03:34.980 --> 00:03:37.340
morning. Lovely chat from an educator in

90
00:03:37.340 --> 00:03:39.700
Hawaii, uh, who I talk to later because I

91
00:03:39.700 --> 00:03:42.480
used to work in Hawaii a lot. So a lot of

92
00:03:42.480 --> 00:03:45.360
the folklore tales in astronomy he was

93
00:03:45.360 --> 00:03:47.160
aware of and some, what some of his

94
00:03:47.160 --> 00:03:49.040
colleagues were as well. But what was really

95
00:03:49.040 --> 00:03:51.600
nice was getting a shout out from uh, from a

96
00:03:51.600 --> 00:03:53.760
couple of, particularly a couple of this

97
00:03:53.760 --> 00:03:55.560
morning's presenters. They did get a keynote

98
00:03:55.560 --> 00:03:58.480
presentation, um, um, Mari Timms and

99
00:03:58.480 --> 00:04:00.970
Sandra Woodward. Um, uh,

100
00:04:01.510 --> 00:04:04.440
um, m mentioned, um, you know, stuff that

101
00:04:04.520 --> 00:04:07.160
I do and that we do, uh, including a very

102
00:04:07.160 --> 00:04:09.840
nice shout out about space nuts, which

103
00:04:10.240 --> 00:04:13.200
apparently is um, very much

104
00:04:13.200 --> 00:04:15.600
a source of inspiration to talk about with,

105
00:04:15.680 --> 00:04:17.120
with kids in class.

106
00:04:17.520 --> 00:04:18.480
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, wonderful.

107
00:04:18.560 --> 00:04:20.600
Professor Fred Watson: Maybe we are useful after all, Andrew.

108
00:04:20.600 --> 00:04:23.000
Andrew Dunkley: Possibly. Maybe we do contribute a little bit

109
00:04:23.000 --> 00:04:25.360
to education. Or maybe it's pseudoscience.

110
00:04:26.560 --> 00:04:27.760
Professor Fred Watson: No, it's not pseudoscience.

111
00:04:27.760 --> 00:04:28.960
Andrew Dunkley: No, it's not, not at all.

112
00:04:29.040 --> 00:04:31.640
Professor Fred Watson: It's just um, you know, it's our take on the

113
00:04:31.640 --> 00:04:33.480
universe which might not necessarily be the

114
00:04:33.480 --> 00:04:34.920
same as some other people's, but I think

115
00:04:34.920 --> 00:04:36.500
we're reasonably near the mark.

116
00:04:36.900 --> 00:04:39.140
Andrew Dunkley: So that's so rare in science. Frick.

117
00:04:40.500 --> 00:04:42.230
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Um,

118
00:04:42.980 --> 00:04:43.580
yeah.

119
00:04:43.580 --> 00:04:45.300
So that's why I'm here in Melbourne in a

120
00:04:45.300 --> 00:04:47.700
hotel room. Jordy is um, about a thousand

121
00:04:47.700 --> 00:04:49.500
kilometres away, so you might not hear him

122
00:04:49.500 --> 00:04:49.780
today.

123
00:04:49.780 --> 00:04:50.980
Andrew Dunkley: I think we will hear him.

124
00:04:52.180 --> 00:04:53.540
Professor Fred Watson: I think we will probably.

125
00:04:54.740 --> 00:04:56.700
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, uh, wonderful. I'm glad it's going well.

126
00:04:56.700 --> 00:04:58.020
And uh, a lot of people there.

127
00:04:58.920 --> 00:05:01.500
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there are 81 participants. Yes. Uh, some

128
00:05:01.500 --> 00:05:03.300
of them are online but uh, there's quite a

129
00:05:03.300 --> 00:05:05.620
good healthy handful. What, what I also

130
00:05:05.620 --> 00:05:08.380
really like about it is the gender

131
00:05:08.380 --> 00:05:09.940
balance. 50. 50.

132
00:05:10.420 --> 00:05:11.140
Andrew Dunkley: Excellent.

133
00:05:11.140 --> 00:05:11.886
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. 50.

134
00:05:11.954 --> 00:05:12.260
Andrew Dunkley: 50.

135
00:05:13.160 --> 00:05:15.340
Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's um. Yeah, I think that's a very

136
00:05:15.340 --> 00:05:16.420
important aspect of it.

137
00:05:16.420 --> 00:05:19.340
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I, we can't claim M.50.50, but

138
00:05:19.340 --> 00:05:21.680
this week we're running in Dubbo, uh,

139
00:05:22.140 --> 00:05:24.980
the uh, New South Wales Veterans

140
00:05:25.060 --> 00:05:26.620
State Golf Championships.

141
00:05:26.620 --> 00:05:27.780
Professor Fred Watson: Oh yes, you said you were.

142
00:05:27.780 --> 00:05:30.620
Andrew Dunkley: And we've got about 100 and let's say

143
00:05:30.620 --> 00:05:32.260
120. 130

144
00:05:33.140 --> 00:05:35.860
participants and about

145
00:05:36.180 --> 00:05:38.180
nearly 50 of them are women. So.

146
00:05:38.260 --> 00:05:38.660
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

147
00:05:38.660 --> 00:05:39.220
Andrew Dunkley: That's pretty good.

148
00:05:39.620 --> 00:05:40.300
Professor Fred Watson: That is great.

149
00:05:40.300 --> 00:05:42.740
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I'm having a crack at the championship.

150
00:05:43.380 --> 00:05:46.300
I've got, uh. I think the funny

151
00:05:46.300 --> 00:05:48.420
story is, uh, I said to someone, look, I've

152
00:05:48.420 --> 00:05:50.540
signed up for the state championships. I

153
00:05:50.540 --> 00:05:53.300
don't know why. And he said to me, oh, no,

154
00:05:53.300 --> 00:05:55.140
no, you gotta play. And I said, why do you

155
00:05:55.140 --> 00:05:56.900
think that? He said, because they need at

156
00:05:56.900 --> 00:05:57.780
least 40 players.

157
00:05:59.620 --> 00:06:01.650
Thanks. Thanks for the vote of confidence.

158
00:06:03.410 --> 00:06:05.130
I've actually played two rounds and I've done

159
00:06:05.130 --> 00:06:05.570
all right.

160
00:06:05.730 --> 00:06:06.530
Professor Fred Watson: Oh, that's great.

161
00:06:07.410 --> 00:06:08.810
Andrew Dunkley: I'm not going to win. There's a couple of

162
00:06:08.810 --> 00:06:11.090
guns that are just. But I'm hoping to finish

163
00:06:11.090 --> 00:06:12.930
top 10 state championship.

164
00:06:12.930 --> 00:06:15.490
Professor Fred Watson: Top 10 will be pretty damn good for golf,

165
00:06:15.490 --> 00:06:18.330
which is not an easy game. No, but aren't you

166
00:06:18.330 --> 00:06:20.210
organising the event? Isn't this a conflict

167
00:06:20.210 --> 00:06:20.690
of interest?

168
00:06:20.820 --> 00:06:23.420
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, yeah, I'm part of the committee, but, uh,

169
00:06:23.650 --> 00:06:26.570
my only major role is to emcee the

170
00:06:26.570 --> 00:06:28.110
presentation night.

171
00:06:28.670 --> 00:06:30.110
Professor Fred Watson: So if you're getting an award.

172
00:06:30.660 --> 00:06:33.590
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I won't be giving the awards. I'm just

173
00:06:33.590 --> 00:06:36.590
the mc. But I. Look, that's

174
00:06:36.590 --> 00:06:37.630
not even going to be a problem.

175
00:06:39.950 --> 00:06:41.750
Not unless I shoot the lights out in the

176
00:06:41.750 --> 00:06:43.510
final round tomorrow. But we'll see.

177
00:06:43.510 --> 00:06:45.510
Professor Fred Watson: Well, you might do. You might. You never do

178
00:06:45.510 --> 00:06:47.190
that. Putting the lights out so was a good

179
00:06:47.190 --> 00:06:47.470
move.

180
00:06:47.630 --> 00:06:50.190
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, Golf's like that.

181
00:06:50.350 --> 00:06:52.190
Could go the other way as well. I've got to

182
00:06:52.270 --> 00:06:54.940
keep that in mind. Now we, we uh,

183
00:06:55.090 --> 00:06:56.920
better get down to why we're here and uh,

184
00:06:56.920 --> 00:06:58.570
that is to talk about things that are

185
00:06:58.570 --> 00:07:00.530
happening in astronomy and space science.

186
00:07:00.530 --> 00:07:03.200
And one of the things we've talked about, uh,

187
00:07:03.200 --> 00:07:05.680
on a fairly regular basis is, uh, these, uh,

188
00:07:05.690 --> 00:07:08.450
NASA missions to the moon, known as the

189
00:07:08.450 --> 00:07:11.330
Artemis project. Um, Artemis

190
00:07:11.330 --> 00:07:14.050
1 has been, and done its thing, ah, a

191
00:07:14.050 --> 00:07:16.530
lap of the moon with nobody on board or maybe

192
00:07:16.530 --> 00:07:19.290
a couple of plush toys. Um, but,

193
00:07:19.500 --> 00:07:22.090
uh, now they're saying that they

194
00:07:22.250 --> 00:07:25.210
think Artemis 2 will be on its way,

195
00:07:25.840 --> 00:07:28.130
uh, at the latest. April, but possibly

196
00:07:28.130 --> 00:07:28.650
sooner.

197
00:07:29.210 --> 00:07:31.970
Professor Fred Watson: Well, it was, um, no sooner than April. That

198
00:07:31.970 --> 00:07:34.770
was the deal, uh, so far. But

199
00:07:34.770 --> 00:07:37.210
the news we've had today is that

200
00:07:37.610 --> 00:07:40.410
the launch window, uh, in fact is being

201
00:07:40.410 --> 00:07:42.290
brought forward and could be as early as the

202
00:07:42.290 --> 00:07:43.210
5th of February.

203
00:07:43.450 --> 00:07:44.010
Andrew Dunkley: Yes.

204
00:07:44.250 --> 00:07:46.120
Professor Fred Watson: So we're looking now at ah,

205
00:07:46.570 --> 00:07:49.450
Artemis flying much earlier than

206
00:07:49.450 --> 00:07:52.050
we had expected. Artemis 2.

207
00:07:52.480 --> 00:07:54.530
Um, and I think one of the reasons for that

208
00:07:54.530 --> 00:07:57.170
is that we've, We've been seeing news

209
00:07:57.170 --> 00:07:59.210
reports. I'm sure you've caught them as well,

210
00:07:59.210 --> 00:08:01.930
Andrew, that um, the hardware is

211
00:08:01.930 --> 00:08:04.250
ready to go, that the, you know, the space

212
00:08:04.250 --> 00:08:06.290
launch system, which will take astronauts to

213
00:08:06.290 --> 00:08:08.970
the moon. And um, the, the

214
00:08:08.970 --> 00:08:11.250
Orion capsule, it's all ready to go.

215
00:08:11.760 --> 00:08:14.370
Um, and bearing in mind that this, this

216
00:08:14.370 --> 00:08:16.810
mission is essentially a Repeat of the

217
00:08:16.810 --> 00:08:19.250
11-22-2022 mission,

218
00:08:19.820 --> 00:08:22.160
uh, which was a 25 day mission, it's actually

219
00:08:22.160 --> 00:08:25.000
a shorter, shorter version of it. Uh but

220
00:08:25.000 --> 00:08:27.960
Artemis 1, um, basically did what

221
00:08:27.960 --> 00:08:30.480
Artemis 2 will do. It launched and

222
00:08:31.010 --> 00:08:33.760
uh, sent this, the capsule into

223
00:08:33.920 --> 00:08:36.720
orbit around the moon, um taking it actually

224
00:08:36.720 --> 00:08:38.760
quite a lot further away than the moon's

225
00:08:38.760 --> 00:08:41.360
distance, um, and then bringing it back re

226
00:08:41.360 --> 00:08:44.000
entering and picking it up in, in the ocean.

227
00:08:44.320 --> 00:08:47.050
So that was a very successful um,

228
00:08:47.560 --> 00:08:50.440
dress rehearsal for what Artemis 2

229
00:08:50.440 --> 00:08:51.760
will be like. And I'm sure the four

230
00:08:51.760 --> 00:08:54.680
astronauts who are going to fly uh, trained

231
00:08:54.760 --> 00:08:57.560
up to the gunnels, uh and it

232
00:08:57.560 --> 00:09:00.440
will be really great to see them

233
00:09:00.440 --> 00:09:02.520
stepping into the spacecraft in February I

234
00:09:02.520 --> 00:09:02.760
think.

235
00:09:02.840 --> 00:09:04.960
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. Won't that be exciting? And the

236
00:09:04.960 --> 00:09:07.800
first time in 54

237
00:09:07.800 --> 00:09:10.680
years is it uh, we've

238
00:09:10.680 --> 00:09:11.880
sent people to the moon?

239
00:09:12.310 --> 00:09:15.240
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yes, um, well 1970.

240
00:09:15.240 --> 00:09:18.160
No, 72 was the last. 72,

241
00:09:18.160 --> 00:09:20.720
that's right, yes it's, it will be 54. Yes,

242
00:09:20.720 --> 00:09:23.690
you're right, 54 years. Um, um,

243
00:09:25.000 --> 00:09:27.800
the thing that, a

244
00:09:27.800 --> 00:09:30.160
point I didn't make is that um, these, the

245
00:09:30.160 --> 00:09:32.000
astronauts will not land on the moon. That's

246
00:09:32.000 --> 00:09:34.440
Artemis 3. Artemis 2 is

247
00:09:34.760 --> 00:09:37.600
purely going around the moon, uh, and going

248
00:09:37.600 --> 00:09:39.950
through all the required manoeuvres that will

249
00:09:40.110 --> 00:09:43.030
be needed when um, they actually do

250
00:09:43.030 --> 00:09:45.850
go to the moon in Artemis 3, for example, um,

251
00:09:45.850 --> 00:09:47.230
this idea of you know,

252
00:09:48.510 --> 00:09:51.430
undocking spacecraft ah from a, from a

253
00:09:51.430 --> 00:09:53.910
module, a service module, turning it around

254
00:09:53.910 --> 00:09:55.910
to be facing the way you want it to and then

255
00:09:55.910 --> 00:09:58.230
re docking again. That kind of manoeuvre very

256
00:09:58.230 --> 00:10:00.870
much the stocking trade of the Apollo era

257
00:10:00.870 --> 00:10:02.830
astronauts. But of course now we've got new

258
00:10:02.830 --> 00:10:05.150
technology, quite uh, different technology.

259
00:10:05.990 --> 00:10:08.660
Um, a quick shout out to the crew. Uh,

260
00:10:08.810 --> 00:10:11.570
Christina Koch, Richard Glover. Victor

261
00:10:11.570 --> 00:10:12.970
Glover. Not Richard Glover,

262
00:10:14.250 --> 00:10:17.090
Victor Glover, sorry Victor. Um, uh,

263
00:10:17.090 --> 00:10:20.090
Reed Wiseman and Jeremy Hansen. They are

264
00:10:20.090 --> 00:10:23.090
the ah, the Crew of Artemis

265
00:10:23.090 --> 00:10:25.850
2. Heavily in training I'm sure

266
00:10:25.850 --> 00:10:28.850
still and all ready to take their um, their

267
00:10:28.850 --> 00:10:31.530
Orion capsule around the moon to give us

268
00:10:31.690 --> 00:10:34.590
a fabulous view. So yes, the point um,

269
00:10:34.680 --> 00:10:36.560
I think that you're making is that this is

270
00:10:36.560 --> 00:10:39.040
the first time in 54 years that

271
00:10:39.040 --> 00:10:41.080
astronauts will have gone out of low Earth

272
00:10:41.080 --> 00:10:43.760
orbit which is where they've been uh, in the

273
00:10:43.760 --> 00:10:45.520
International Space Station. We haven't had

274
00:10:45.520 --> 00:10:48.120
anybody going, venturing out and of course

275
00:10:48.120 --> 00:10:50.040
when you do that, when you go between the

276
00:10:50.040 --> 00:10:52.240
moon and the Earth, you're in what we might

277
00:10:52.240 --> 00:10:54.300
call deep space from A point of view of a,

278
00:10:54.300 --> 00:10:57.160
uh, spacecraft, uh, which means that

279
00:10:57.400 --> 00:10:59.440
you're uh, subject to the sun's radiation and

280
00:10:59.440 --> 00:11:01.790
all of that other stuff. And uh. So there'll

281
00:11:01.790 --> 00:11:04.580
be lots and lots of medical work done, um,

282
00:11:04.580 --> 00:11:06.950
on analysing how these astronauts have

283
00:11:06.950 --> 00:11:08.510
reacted to that and responded to that.

284
00:11:08.510 --> 00:11:11.230
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. And uh. I believe that they

285
00:11:11.230 --> 00:11:13.780
will be, um.

286
00:11:13.780 --> 00:11:16.030
Travelling further than any other human being

287
00:11:16.030 --> 00:11:18.950
has ever gone in terms of space travel.

288
00:11:18.950 --> 00:11:20.150
Because they'll be travelling

289
00:11:20.950 --> 00:11:23.510
9,200 kilometres past the moon.

290
00:11:23.510 --> 00:11:25.310
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right, yeah. Yeah.

291
00:11:25.310 --> 00:11:27.110
Andrew Dunkley: They still, they still won't be the most

292
00:11:27.110 --> 00:11:29.440
isolated human humans in history. Michael

293
00:11:29.440 --> 00:11:32.120
Collins still retains that because he was by

294
00:11:32.120 --> 00:11:34.880
himself, uh, in orbit around the

295
00:11:34.880 --> 00:11:37.880
moon. And uh, I believe in his

296
00:11:37.880 --> 00:11:40.840
mission, Apollo 11, he was further out

297
00:11:40.840 --> 00:11:42.960
than any of the others that were on the

298
00:11:42.960 --> 00:11:43.720
command module.

299
00:11:44.040 --> 00:11:46.600
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I think that's correct. I mean all the.

300
00:11:47.000 --> 00:11:49.240
All the Apollo, uh, uh, missions had a

301
00:11:49.240 --> 00:11:51.960
command, a command module pilot.

302
00:11:52.130 --> 00:11:54.160
Uh, as you said, Michael Collins was the one

303
00:11:54.160 --> 00:11:56.240
for Apollo 11. But I think you're also right

304
00:11:56.240 --> 00:11:58.870
that the orbit that Apollo 11 was uh,

305
00:11:59.040 --> 00:12:01.540
in was further out from the moon's surface.

306
00:12:01.540 --> 00:12:04.380
Andrew Dunkley: Then that's how I understand it. However,

307
00:12:04.380 --> 00:12:05.890
the difference with this one is every, uh,

308
00:12:06.100 --> 00:12:08.300
other mission we've sent to the moon has had

309
00:12:08.300 --> 00:12:10.100
three astronauts. This has got four.

310
00:12:10.420 --> 00:12:10.980
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

311
00:12:11.630 --> 00:12:12.660
Andrew Dunkley: Um, so that's a first.

312
00:12:12.980 --> 00:12:14.820
Professor Fred Watson: Yep, it is. That's. That's right. That's a

313
00:12:14.820 --> 00:12:17.780
big first. New technology. It's a much

314
00:12:17.780 --> 00:12:20.580
more spacious capsule, the Orion capsule,

315
00:12:20.590 --> 00:12:23.300
uh, which I think, uh, will

316
00:12:24.180 --> 00:12:26.900
really be, um. It'll be luxury

317
00:12:27.060 --> 00:12:29.620
compared with. With the Apollo.

318
00:12:29.830 --> 00:12:30.870
Apollo capsules.

319
00:12:31.030 --> 00:12:33.450
Andrew Dunkley: I imagine so. And we wish them well. Uh,

320
00:12:33.450 --> 00:12:36.130
three representatives of NASA and one, uh,

321
00:12:36.130 --> 00:12:39.030
Jeremy Hansen from the Canadian Space Agency.

322
00:12:39.030 --> 00:12:41.870
So that's. That's pretty good too. Ah, we'll

323
00:12:41.870 --> 00:12:43.550
watch with interest. And as you said,

324
00:12:43.550 --> 00:12:45.190
Fred Watson, all the gear is ready to go.

325
00:12:45.190 --> 00:12:47.430
This, uh, space launch system, the Orion

326
00:12:47.430 --> 00:12:49.350
capsule, which had a couple of glitches

327
00:12:49.350 --> 00:12:51.390
coming back to Earth, uh, on Artemis 1.

328
00:12:51.390 --> 00:12:53.430
They've fixed that. I think it overheated.

329
00:12:53.940 --> 00:12:56.230
Uh, and a few other things that they've

330
00:12:56.230 --> 00:12:59.160
sorted out. So they're good to go. So, um.

331
00:12:59.290 --> 00:13:01.050
Yeah, just waiting for the right. Right

332
00:13:01.050 --> 00:13:03.680
weather and the right data to set off. So,

333
00:13:03.680 --> 00:13:06.210
um, yes, there'll be more to talk about as we

334
00:13:06.210 --> 00:13:09.050
get into the early months of 2026

335
00:13:10.010 --> 00:13:12.930
for the Artemis 2 launch. This

336
00:13:12.930 --> 00:13:14.810
is Space Nuts. Andrew Dunkley. Oh, if you

337
00:13:14.810 --> 00:13:16.770
want to read about that, of course, uh, it's

338
00:13:16.770 --> 00:13:19.050
everywhere but BBC, uh, dot com has a good

339
00:13:19.050 --> 00:13:19.930
story about it.

340
00:13:22.490 --> 00:13:24.730
Generic: Three, two, one.

341
00:13:25.210 --> 00:13:26.590
Andrew Dunkley: Straight Space nuts.

342
00:13:26.670 --> 00:13:28.830
Now we'll keep the introduction to this one,

343
00:13:28.830 --> 00:13:30.710
fairly short. Could we have discovered a

344
00:13:30.710 --> 00:13:31.790
wormhole, Fred Watson?

345
00:13:32.520 --> 00:13:34.590
Professor Fred Watson: Um, that's the usual answer.

346
00:13:35.150 --> 00:13:35.790
Maybe.

347
00:13:36.830 --> 00:13:37.710
Andrew Dunkley: I knew it.

348
00:13:39.230 --> 00:13:42.110
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, maybe. Um, so what we're

349
00:13:42.110 --> 00:13:44.830
talking about is a gravitational

350
00:13:44.830 --> 00:13:47.830
wave signal. Excuse me, a

351
00:13:47.830 --> 00:13:50.110
slight frog in my throat there. Not a geordie

352
00:13:50.110 --> 00:13:53.010
in my throat, just a frog. Um, it's

353
00:13:53.010 --> 00:13:55.250
one that was recorded back in 2019.

354
00:13:55.810 --> 00:13:58.810
So, uh, we've had access, ah, to

355
00:13:58.810 --> 00:14:01.050
the gravitational wave sky, if I can put it

356
00:14:01.050 --> 00:14:03.970
that way, for 10 years now. And in fact,

357
00:14:04.080 --> 00:14:06.770
um, the first gravitational wave

358
00:14:06.770 --> 00:14:09.090
signal was uh, on the

359
00:14:09.330 --> 00:14:12.010
14th of September, 2015, Marnie's

360
00:14:12.010 --> 00:14:14.450
birthday, as it happens. Uh, so the

361
00:14:14.530 --> 00:14:17.010
LIGO people, the large Interferometric.

362
00:14:17.420 --> 00:14:20.180
Sorry, a Laser Interferometric Gravitational

363
00:14:20.180 --> 00:14:22.700
Wave Observatory, uh, they

364
00:14:22.860 --> 00:14:25.140
have been celebrating their 10th anniversary

365
00:14:25.140 --> 00:14:28.140
since operations came in. Um,

366
00:14:28.140 --> 00:14:30.940
they have been joined by Virgo, uh,

367
00:14:31.020 --> 00:14:33.780
another gravitational wave observatory. And

368
00:14:33.780 --> 00:14:36.220
since then Kagura, which is in Japan.

369
00:14:36.660 --> 00:14:39.660
Uh, so, um, these, uh, three

370
00:14:39.660 --> 00:14:42.620
facilities are currently routinely

371
00:14:42.910 --> 00:14:45.270
looking at gravitational wave science.

372
00:14:45.270 --> 00:14:47.830
They're seeing exploding or

373
00:14:47.830 --> 00:14:50.150
colliding neutron stars coming in ten a

374
00:14:50.150 --> 00:14:52.910
penny. Um, uh, however,

375
00:14:52.910 --> 00:14:55.070
this, and this goes back to when it was just

376
00:14:55.070 --> 00:14:57.950
LIGO and Virgo. In 2019, there

377
00:14:57.950 --> 00:15:00.190
was a very, very different

378
00:15:01.150 --> 00:15:03.790
gravitational wave event detected

379
00:15:03.870 --> 00:15:06.710
by uh, uh, the

380
00:15:06.710 --> 00:15:08.190
two interferometers.

381
00:15:08.790 --> 00:15:11.690
Um, you and I have spoken

382
00:15:11.690 --> 00:15:14.490
before about the characteristic sound,

383
00:15:15.050 --> 00:15:17.290
uh, because it is in the audio frequency

384
00:15:17.610 --> 00:15:20.050
regime. Characteristic, uh, sound of two

385
00:15:20.050 --> 00:15:22.050
neutron stars colliding or a neutron star and

386
00:15:22.050 --> 00:15:24.530
a black hole or two black holes. It's that

387
00:15:24.530 --> 00:15:27.530
chirp sound. It's uh,

388
00:15:27.530 --> 00:15:30.250
with the frequency increasing as these things

389
00:15:30.250 --> 00:15:32.770
spin together and then just vanishes when

390
00:15:32.770 --> 00:15:35.460
they collide. It's when they undergo what's

391
00:15:35.460 --> 00:15:37.060
called the ring down where the two black

392
00:15:37.060 --> 00:15:39.620
holes actually merge. Yeah, but this one was

393
00:15:39.860 --> 00:15:41.180
nothing like that. And I'm not going to

394
00:15:41.180 --> 00:15:43.100
impersonate what it sounded like, but it was

395
00:15:43.100 --> 00:15:44.020
more of a crack.

396
00:15:44.420 --> 00:15:45.940
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, was it, Was it, Was it.

397
00:15:47.780 --> 00:15:50.780
Professor Fred Watson: No, it could be something completely

398
00:15:50.780 --> 00:15:51.060
different

399
00:15:55.140 --> 00:15:57.100
because I'm sure there's a joke about Uranus

400
00:15:57.100 --> 00:15:58.860
you can make with that, but I'm not, I'm not

401
00:15:58.860 --> 00:16:01.700
even going to go there. So,

402
00:16:02.240 --> 00:16:05.060
uh, the, um. Yeah, so it was more of a crack.

403
00:16:05.060 --> 00:16:08.060
It was, it was less than, uh, a tenth

404
00:16:08.060 --> 00:16:10.820
of a second in duration. These normal

405
00:16:10.820 --> 00:16:13.740
signals take a few seconds to build up the

406
00:16:13.740 --> 00:16:16.100
frequency and then they disappear with that,

407
00:16:16.180 --> 00:16:18.900
you know, that chirp. Um, but this

408
00:16:18.900 --> 00:16:21.620
one was over in 10 seconds.

409
00:16:23.060 --> 00:16:26.060
So, um, there has been work done on trying

410
00:16:26.060 --> 00:16:28.870
to explain this. It's got a name. All these

411
00:16:28.870 --> 00:16:31.110
things have a name that starts with GW and

412
00:16:31.110 --> 00:16:33.870
ends with the date spelled backwards. Uh, so

413
00:16:33.870 --> 00:16:36.750
this was GW190521

414
00:16:37.390 --> 00:16:40.270
for the date, which was the 21st of May,

415
00:16:40.740 --> 00:16:43.720
uh, 2019. And, um,

416
00:16:45.310 --> 00:16:47.630
the best interpretation,

417
00:16:48.110 --> 00:16:50.870
which I guess is what you might call the

418
00:16:50.870 --> 00:16:53.430
standard picture, is that. Yes, it is. Two

419
00:16:53.430 --> 00:16:55.390
black hairs. Two black hairs.

420
00:16:55.390 --> 00:16:55.570
Generic: Two.

421
00:16:55.720 --> 00:16:56.840
Professor Fred Watson: Two black holes.

422
00:16:57.320 --> 00:16:58.680
Andrew Dunkley: It's about all you've got on your head,

423
00:16:58.680 --> 00:16:59.080
Fred Watson.

424
00:17:01.130 --> 00:17:03.500
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I'll have to look for the other one. Um,

425
00:17:03.800 --> 00:17:06.680
there's two, uh. Two

426
00:17:06.680 --> 00:17:09.320
black holes snaring each other. Not.

427
00:17:09.560 --> 00:17:11.960
Not two black hairs snoring each other. Which

428
00:17:11.960 --> 00:17:14.080
is, I think, is what I was going to say. Two

429
00:17:14.080 --> 00:17:16.240
black holes snaring each other. Uh, in

430
00:17:16.240 --> 00:17:18.610
passing, I'm reading the account that is, um,

431
00:17:18.610 --> 00:17:21.040
on Science Alert, uh, written by Michelle

432
00:17:21.040 --> 00:17:23.760
Starr, an old friend of Space nuts, uh, with

433
00:17:23.760 --> 00:17:25.980
a name that tells it like it is. Um,

434
00:17:27.089 --> 00:17:29.729
so, uh, that's the standard interpretation.

435
00:17:29.889 --> 00:17:32.209
But there's a new paper that has come

436
00:17:32.849 --> 00:17:35.310
from, um, astronomy, um,

437
00:17:35.329 --> 00:17:37.809
astronomers, physicists actually,

438
00:17:38.390 --> 00:17:40.489
uh, which is what you need to be to do

439
00:17:40.489 --> 00:17:41.969
gravitational waves, I guess. But

440
00:17:41.969 --> 00:17:44.409
astrophysics is probably the real name. A

441
00:17:44.409 --> 00:17:46.689
physicist in China, University of Chinese

442
00:17:47.089 --> 00:17:49.929
Academy of Sciences. Uh, we've seen a new

443
00:17:49.929 --> 00:17:51.969
interpretation which is

444
00:17:52.750 --> 00:17:55.310
that, uh, what this

445
00:17:55.790 --> 00:17:58.190
event depicted was not two

446
00:17:58.670 --> 00:18:01.150
black holes colliding in our

447
00:18:01.150 --> 00:18:03.950
universe, but in another universe.

448
00:18:04.430 --> 00:18:07.110
Whoa. And what we're hearing, or what

449
00:18:07.110 --> 00:18:09.870
we're sensing is the gravitational

450
00:18:09.870 --> 00:18:12.790
disturbance, uh, of an event in

451
00:18:12.790 --> 00:18:15.790
another universe that comes through a

452
00:18:15.790 --> 00:18:18.560
collapsing wormhole that

453
00:18:18.560 --> 00:18:21.020
was, um, basically, um,

454
00:18:21.020 --> 00:18:23.840
formed in the merger and collapsed after

455
00:18:23.840 --> 00:18:24.600
the end of it.

456
00:18:25.400 --> 00:18:27.880
Andrew Dunkley: So, um, that's a huge claim.

457
00:18:28.040 --> 00:18:31.040
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, it is, isn't it? So

458
00:18:31.040 --> 00:18:33.800
let me quote from Michel's article, um, in

459
00:18:33.800 --> 00:18:36.320
Science Alert. To be clear, the black hole

460
00:18:36.320 --> 00:18:38.520
collision right here in our own universe is

461
00:18:38.520 --> 00:18:41.120
still the preferred interpretation of the

462
00:18:41.120 --> 00:18:44.000
strange signal. But that preference is not

463
00:18:44.000 --> 00:18:46.660
strong enough to rule out the wormhole

464
00:18:46.660 --> 00:18:49.530
model entirely. Uh, and that's, um,

465
00:18:49.980 --> 00:18:52.260
basically a quote from the. The preprint that

466
00:18:52.260 --> 00:18:54.860
these, um, uh, scientists in, In

467
00:18:54.940 --> 00:18:56.540
China have published.

468
00:18:57.100 --> 00:18:59.900
Um, so it's,

469
00:19:00.540 --> 00:19:02.860
you know, it's, it's.

470
00:19:03.340 --> 00:19:05.740
It's. It's a quite a remarkable thing.

471
00:19:06.120 --> 00:19:08.860
Uh, Michel's article is relatively

472
00:19:08.860 --> 00:19:10.860
short, although there's quite a lot of detail

473
00:19:10.940 --> 00:19:13.740
in there. Uh, but the bottom line

474
00:19:13.740 --> 00:19:16.090
is, you know, if. If it was.

475
00:19:17.050 --> 00:19:19.130
If that was the correct interpretation,

476
00:19:19.980 --> 00:19:20.520
uh, of, uh,

477
00:19:21.050 --> 00:19:23.450
GW190521,

478
00:19:24.060 --> 00:19:26.330
uh, and anything else we found that was like

479
00:19:26.330 --> 00:19:28.570
it. If that was the, uh, the

480
00:19:29.130 --> 00:19:31.690
confirmed interpretation that it was a

481
00:19:31.850 --> 00:19:34.850
temporary wormhole, allowing us to sort of

482
00:19:34.850 --> 00:19:37.850
hear the, uh, the echo of.

483
00:19:38.490 --> 00:19:40.530
Excuse me, I'm gonna sneeze. Andrew. Sorry

484
00:19:40.530 --> 00:19:40.850
about that.

485
00:19:40.850 --> 00:19:42.450
Andrew Dunkley: It's. That Time of the year over here.

486
00:19:42.450 --> 00:19:43.930
Professor Fred Watson: I think that was a, I think that was a

487
00:19:43.930 --> 00:19:46.500
wormhole collapsing. Um, yeah, it

488
00:19:46.500 --> 00:19:48.860
wouldn't, it wouldn't. If you could, if it,

489
00:19:48.860 --> 00:19:50.780
if that was the preferred interpretation, it

490
00:19:50.780 --> 00:19:52.380
wouldn't just suggest that these things

491
00:19:52.540 --> 00:19:55.340
exist. Wormholes have been a feature of

492
00:19:55.820 --> 00:19:58.460
science fiction as well as science writing.

493
00:19:58.460 --> 00:20:00.500
The, the fact that they theoretically could

494
00:20:00.500 --> 00:20:02.820
exist but we've got no evidence of them. Uh,

495
00:20:02.820 --> 00:20:04.900
but what she says is it wouldn't just confirm

496
00:20:04.900 --> 00:20:07.780
the existence of these, these things. Um, it

497
00:20:07.780 --> 00:20:10.660
also gives uh, us a, ah, a new way

498
00:20:10.660 --> 00:20:13.350
of, of investigating their

499
00:20:13.350 --> 00:20:16.350
properties. Um, and you know, that might

500
00:20:17.310 --> 00:20:19.310
lead to a whole new branch of astronomy,

501
00:20:19.310 --> 00:20:21.870
wormhole studies. Well, wouldn't that be

502
00:20:21.870 --> 00:20:22.670
extraordinary?

503
00:20:22.830 --> 00:20:25.220
Andrew Dunkley: It would be, but it also opens up

504
00:20:25.220 --> 00:20:28.190
um, another thing that's only theoretical

505
00:20:29.630 --> 00:20:32.630
multiple universe theory. So if we've

506
00:20:32.630 --> 00:20:35.550
detected the collision of two black holes

507
00:20:35.550 --> 00:20:38.150
in another universe and detected it through

508
00:20:38.150 --> 00:20:40.520
the opening up of a temporary wormhole, I

509
00:20:40.520 --> 00:20:41.720
mean that's a double banger.

510
00:20:42.280 --> 00:20:44.960
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, that is, uh, except that

511
00:20:44.960 --> 00:20:47.720
you would need to rule out the possibility

512
00:20:47.720 --> 00:20:49.920
that this wormhole was linking two bits of

513
00:20:49.920 --> 00:20:52.200
our own universe because

514
00:20:52.600 --> 00:20:55.160
that's one of the things that has been

515
00:20:55.160 --> 00:20:57.800
suggested. But maybe the Chinese paper,

516
00:20:58.220 --> 00:21:00.840
uh, actually uh, has ruled that out. I'm not

517
00:21:00.840 --> 00:21:01.840
sure because I haven't looked at the

518
00:21:01.840 --> 00:21:04.280
preprint. Um, but yes,

519
00:21:04.580 --> 00:21:07.190
uh, it is, is really

520
00:21:07.350 --> 00:21:10.310
rather remarkable. Uh, what the

521
00:21:10.380 --> 00:21:13.110
uh, scientists in uh, China have done is

522
00:21:13.750 --> 00:21:16.590
basically modelled what you would get

523
00:21:16.590 --> 00:21:19.350
if you had a gravitational wave signal

524
00:21:19.590 --> 00:21:22.349
from another universe coming

525
00:21:22.349 --> 00:21:25.110
through a wormhole. Um, and they've

526
00:21:25.110 --> 00:21:27.110
modelled that and they've compared that with

527
00:21:27.830 --> 00:21:30.820
this particular event, um,

528
00:21:30.820 --> 00:21:33.240
and uh, reasonably happy that their model

529
00:21:33.240 --> 00:21:36.000
actually fits the data. Um, in fact

530
00:21:36.000 --> 00:21:38.610
they say um,

531
00:21:38.880 --> 00:21:41.840
that uh, you know, it's, it's comparable

532
00:21:41.840 --> 00:21:43.200
with it. I don't think it's as

533
00:21:44.160 --> 00:21:46.960
accurate as the black hole merger

534
00:21:47.360 --> 00:21:49.760
waveform, uh, which is, would be a

535
00:21:49.760 --> 00:21:51.120
conventional view that you've got two black

536
00:21:51.120 --> 00:21:52.920
holes that have merged together in our

537
00:21:52.920 --> 00:21:55.760
universe. Um, it's uh, that's

538
00:21:55.760 --> 00:21:58.080
apparently just a very slightly

539
00:21:58.600 --> 00:22:01.240
better fit to the observed signal than their

540
00:22:01.240 --> 00:22:03.960
wormhole model. But it's still a

541
00:22:04.040 --> 00:22:06.520
possible scenario. So

542
00:22:06.740 --> 00:22:09.400
uh, I think uh, this

543
00:22:09.640 --> 00:22:12.360
will be uh, very

544
00:22:12.360 --> 00:22:15.360
much uh, a pathway

545
00:22:15.360 --> 00:22:18.040
for further investigation of wormholes.

546
00:22:18.360 --> 00:22:21.200
Uh, just generally. Um, so what

547
00:22:21.200 --> 00:22:23.200
should we expect if wormholes do exist? What

548
00:22:23.200 --> 00:22:24.880
should we expect? It's not, it's all very

549
00:22:24.880 --> 00:22:26.800
well just talking about space worms I

550
00:22:26.800 --> 00:22:27.320
imagine.

551
00:22:29.870 --> 00:22:31.430
Yeah. Well there you go. You can, I think you

552
00:22:31.430 --> 00:22:33.150
can get um, tablets for those.

553
00:22:35.500 --> 00:22:38.430
Uh, anyway, um, it's, yes, it's,

554
00:22:38.430 --> 00:22:40.830
it's a really interesting piece of work

555
00:22:41.390 --> 00:22:43.870
obviously. Uh, quite controversial,

556
00:22:44.110 --> 00:22:46.990
quite attention grabbing, headline grabbing.

557
00:22:46.990 --> 00:22:47.550
Generic: Yeah.

558
00:22:47.710 --> 00:22:49.790
Professor Fred Watson: And um, I'm gonna have a look at the

559
00:22:49.790 --> 00:22:51.510
preprint, which I haven't had time to look at

560
00:22:51.510 --> 00:22:53.630
yet. In fact I'm clicking on the link now.

561
00:22:54.200 --> 00:22:56.370
Uh, and it's, it takes me to A paper called

562
00:22:56.370 --> 00:22:59.250
IS GW 190521 A Gravitational

563
00:22:59.250 --> 00:23:01.730
Wave Echo of a Wormhole Remnant from Another

564
00:23:01.730 --> 00:23:04.050
Universe. What a great title.

565
00:23:04.290 --> 00:23:06.610
Andrew Dunkley: That is a great title. And uh, hopefully it's

566
00:23:06.610 --> 00:23:08.890
true. I think that'd be great. Uh, it would

567
00:23:08.890 --> 00:23:11.209
give us something new to study and we might

568
00:23:11.209 --> 00:23:14.090
even work out how to create our own wormholes

569
00:23:14.090 --> 00:23:16.410
and travel long distances at the blink of an

570
00:23:16.410 --> 00:23:16.730
eye.

571
00:23:16.730 --> 00:23:17.810
Professor Fred Watson: Wouldn't that be great?

572
00:23:17.890 --> 00:23:18.930
Andrew Dunkley: Wouldn't it be awesome?

573
00:23:19.170 --> 00:23:21.050
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. We had a little certainly get you.

574
00:23:21.050 --> 00:23:21.970
Andrew Dunkley: Out of jury duty.

575
00:23:24.650 --> 00:23:26.730
Professor Fred Watson: Not necessarily. Because if you're in the

576
00:23:26.730 --> 00:23:28.970
other side of the world they'd write to you

577
00:23:28.970 --> 00:23:30.050
and say look, you've just got to use your

578
00:23:30.050 --> 00:23:31.130
wormhole machine and.

579
00:23:31.210 --> 00:23:33.890
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, well, yeah, that's a possibility. All

580
00:23:33.890 --> 00:23:36.010
this exciting stuff. Uh, if you'd like to

581
00:23:36.010 --> 00:23:37.850
read about that, you can do that at the

582
00:23:37.850 --> 00:23:40.570
Science Alert website, sciencealert.com

583
00:23:40.570 --> 00:23:43.410
and read Michelle's article. Or you can go to

584
00:23:43.410 --> 00:23:45.610
the source, the preprint server on

585
00:23:45.850 --> 00:23:48.610
archive. This is Space Nuts with

586
00:23:48.610 --> 00:23:50.490
Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson

587
00:23:50.490 --> 00:23:51.130
Watson.

588
00:23:53.530 --> 00:23:55.410
Generic: 0G and I feel fine.

589
00:23:55.410 --> 00:23:57.850
Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts, our final story.

590
00:23:58.090 --> 00:24:00.810
Fred Watson, uh, takes us uh, into space

591
00:24:00.890 --> 00:24:03.850
to see something very rare indeed. An

592
00:24:03.850 --> 00:24:06.650
Einstein cross has been spotted.

593
00:24:07.370 --> 00:24:09.730
Uh, X marks the spot and they drew a circle

594
00:24:09.730 --> 00:24:10.330
around it.

595
00:24:11.610 --> 00:24:14.170
Professor Fred Watson: Well that's kind of what you have to do. Yes,

596
00:24:14.690 --> 00:24:17.610
uh, in uh, this case, uh, the observations of

597
00:24:17.610 --> 00:24:19.450
the Einstein cross weren't made with visible

598
00:24:19.450 --> 00:24:21.690
light telescopes or infrared telescopes,

599
00:24:22.320 --> 00:24:25.160
but with our old friend alma, the Atacama

600
00:24:25.160 --> 00:24:27.200
Large Millimetre Submillimeter Array, which

601
00:24:27.200 --> 00:24:29.730
we're more used to seeing, uh,

602
00:24:29.760 --> 00:24:32.560
connected to images of protoplanetary discs

603
00:24:32.640 --> 00:24:35.520
and a high frequency radio radiation

604
00:24:35.520 --> 00:24:38.239
from protoplanetary discs is something

605
00:24:38.480 --> 00:24:41.200
that is very much the stocking trade of alma.

606
00:24:41.440 --> 00:24:44.000
But now they've been observing, I mean they

607
00:24:44.000 --> 00:24:46.360
do observe galaxies as well. What they've

608
00:24:46.360 --> 00:24:49.070
observed is an Einstein cross.

609
00:24:49.230 --> 00:24:52.030
This is usually uh, it's

610
00:24:52.030 --> 00:24:54.990
four images of one object in a shape a

611
00:24:54.990 --> 00:24:57.010
little bit like the Southern Cross in our,

612
00:24:57.010 --> 00:24:59.150
ah, Southern Hemisphere sky,

613
00:24:59.730 --> 00:25:02.350
um, which are all images of the same

614
00:25:02.350 --> 00:25:05.190
object. Uh, but there's

615
00:25:05.190 --> 00:25:06.950
something intervening, there's something

616
00:25:06.950 --> 00:25:09.710
between them that creates a gravitational

617
00:25:09.710 --> 00:25:12.350
lens, uh, that separates,

618
00:25:12.430 --> 00:25:14.830
splits the light coming from the distant

619
00:25:14.830 --> 00:25:17.220
object. And uh, as it passes through the

620
00:25:17.220 --> 00:25:19.650
gravitational lens in the foreground, uh,

621
00:25:19.650 --> 00:25:22.340
it's split into four components forming a

622
00:25:22.340 --> 00:25:25.060
cross the reason why this one is particularly

623
00:25:25.060 --> 00:25:27.620
rare is that it has a central image as well.

624
00:25:27.620 --> 00:25:30.060
It's a five image

625
00:25:30.060 --> 00:25:31.979
Einstein cross. And I think there's only one

626
00:25:31.979 --> 00:25:34.730
other one that is actually known, uh,

627
00:25:34.740 --> 00:25:37.620
with gravitational uh, lensing. Um, and

628
00:25:37.620 --> 00:25:40.330
so uh, yeah the story is that um,

629
00:25:41.060 --> 00:25:42.920
this object, uh,

630
00:25:44.480 --> 00:25:46.560
the Einstein cross is the

631
00:25:46.960 --> 00:25:49.960
multiple images of a uh,

632
00:25:50.080 --> 00:25:52.800
background galaxy, uh, known as

633
00:25:52.960 --> 00:25:55.720
hers three or her S3.

634
00:25:55.720 --> 00:25:58.560
Probably her S3. Um, that's

635
00:25:58.640 --> 00:26:01.600
a uh, galaxy which is 11.6 billion

636
00:26:01.600 --> 00:26:03.240
light years away. So we've got a look back

637
00:26:03.240 --> 00:26:05.720
time of 1.6 billion years. Well on the way to

638
00:26:05.720 --> 00:26:08.160
the beginning of the universe. Yes. And

639
00:26:09.030 --> 00:26:11.830
it's gone past uh, a group of

640
00:26:11.830 --> 00:26:14.710
galaxies, a sort of

641
00:26:14.710 --> 00:26:17.630
cluster of galaxies uh, which are in

642
00:26:17.630 --> 00:26:20.350
the foreground and ah, they're only 7.8

643
00:26:20.350 --> 00:26:23.070
billion light years from us, which is still a

644
00:26:23.070 --> 00:26:25.750
staggering distance. But that is the gravity

645
00:26:26.220 --> 00:26:29.030
uh, source that is bending the space and

646
00:26:29.030 --> 00:26:31.620
forming these multiple images. Uh,

647
00:26:31.830 --> 00:26:34.670
and so um, it tells us

648
00:26:34.670 --> 00:26:36.590
about both objects, it tells us about the

649
00:26:36.590 --> 00:26:39.120
distant galaxy of which this is a, a uh,

650
00:26:39.230 --> 00:26:41.310
multiple image. It tells us about the

651
00:26:41.630 --> 00:26:44.430
distribution of matter in the foreground

652
00:26:44.430 --> 00:26:46.590
galaxy cluster. And the really interesting

653
00:26:46.670 --> 00:26:49.620
thing is that what they've shown uh,

654
00:26:49.620 --> 00:26:51.630
the scientists who've done this work,

655
00:26:52.110 --> 00:26:54.750
um, it's ah, a Parisian

656
00:26:54.910 --> 00:26:57.670
group based in Paris, uh, or the leader

657
00:26:57.670 --> 00:27:00.590
is um, based in Paris. Uh,

658
00:27:00.590 --> 00:27:02.750
what they've shown is that the

659
00:27:03.390 --> 00:27:06.260
sort of centre of mass of the

660
00:27:06.260 --> 00:27:09.100
galaxy cluster is not,

661
00:27:09.100 --> 00:27:12.020
is off to one side of where the galaxies

662
00:27:12.020 --> 00:27:14.500
are. And that in itself is

663
00:27:14.580 --> 00:27:17.300
peculiar because we interpret that as saying

664
00:27:17.700 --> 00:27:19.980
that the most of the mass in this cluster is

665
00:27:19.980 --> 00:27:22.860
in the form of dark matter. Uh and it's the

666
00:27:22.860 --> 00:27:25.460
dark matter clump uh, that is kind of

667
00:27:25.460 --> 00:27:27.700
offset from the galaxies that we can see.

668
00:27:27.700 --> 00:27:30.340
That's not um, unique. There are other

669
00:27:30.500 --> 00:27:33.190
circumstances like that in the

670
00:27:33.190 --> 00:27:35.310
universe but this is quite unusual that you

671
00:27:35.310 --> 00:27:37.950
know we've got an Einstein cross created by

672
00:27:38.190 --> 00:27:40.750
a cluster of galaxies whose centre of mass,

673
00:27:40.750 --> 00:27:43.150
if I can put it that way, is off to one side

674
00:27:43.550 --> 00:27:45.270
because of the distribution of dark matter

675
00:27:45.270 --> 00:27:45.870
around it.

676
00:27:46.030 --> 00:27:48.990
Andrew Dunkley: Fascinating. I suppose it also begs the

677
00:27:48.990 --> 00:27:51.270
question that uh, we're looking at the same

678
00:27:51.270 --> 00:27:53.870
thing in five different timelines.

679
00:27:54.590 --> 00:27:57.470
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. And that actually adds

680
00:27:58.170 --> 00:28:00.510
uh, something really interesting to this. Um,

681
00:28:01.130 --> 00:28:03.160
uh, and certainly in the early days of

682
00:28:03.960 --> 00:28:05.880
these kinds of observations, Einstein

683
00:28:05.880 --> 00:28:07.760
crosses. And it goes back actually to the

684
00:28:07.760 --> 00:28:10.240
1970s. I remember when the first double

685
00:28:10.240 --> 00:28:12.120
quasars were being observed and they're

686
00:28:12.120 --> 00:28:13.680
formed by a similar process. There's

687
00:28:13.680 --> 00:28:16.200
something in between the quasar and yourself.

688
00:28:16.200 --> 00:28:18.440
The quasars are kind of delinquent galaxy,

689
00:28:18.780 --> 00:28:21.660
uh, that's multiplying the image. Um,

690
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:24.530
there's a, um, a quote from,

691
00:28:24.620 --> 00:28:27.010
uh, Tanu Dylan,

692
00:28:27.170 --> 00:28:30.010
who's at Washington University in St.

693
00:28:30.010 --> 00:28:32.850
Louis, wasn't, uh, involved in this research.

694
00:28:33.250 --> 00:28:35.850
But a very nice quote that says the

695
00:28:35.850 --> 00:28:37.970
magnification may allow

696
00:28:38.210 --> 00:28:41.090
unusually detailed studies of

697
00:28:41.090 --> 00:28:44.090
a star burst galaxy at redshift

698
00:28:44.090 --> 00:28:46.930
3. And that's redshift 3 is

699
00:28:46.930 --> 00:28:49.330
what tells you it's, uh, that far away.

700
00:28:49.330 --> 00:28:52.280
11.5 billion years, light years,

701
00:28:52.700 --> 00:28:54.400
uh, when the universe was less than a fifth

702
00:28:54.400 --> 00:28:57.120
of its current age, including its gas, star

703
00:28:57.120 --> 00:28:59.880
formation and possible outflows.

704
00:29:00.120 --> 00:29:02.680
And what you really need,

705
00:29:02.920 --> 00:29:05.560
um, is some visible

706
00:29:05.560 --> 00:29:08.040
variation in the

707
00:29:08.520 --> 00:29:10.960
light of the source

708
00:29:10.960 --> 00:29:13.400
galaxy because the light path,

709
00:29:13.920 --> 00:29:16.440
uh, to form each of these five individual

710
00:29:16.440 --> 00:29:19.300
images of that object is different. And

711
00:29:19.300 --> 00:29:21.700
so you expect these to be

712
00:29:21.700 --> 00:29:24.620
delayed. Uh, and in fact, that was the

713
00:29:24.620 --> 00:29:26.580
thing about the double quasars. You could see

714
00:29:26.740 --> 00:29:29.460
variability in an object which

715
00:29:29.780 --> 00:29:32.740
was mimicked by the second

716
00:29:33.140 --> 00:29:35.500
image of it. This is how we knew that there

717
00:29:35.500 --> 00:29:37.580
were two images of the same thing back in the

718
00:29:37.580 --> 00:29:40.380
day. Uh, uh, an object would get brighter,

719
00:29:40.380 --> 00:29:43.060
the quasar would get brighter, and there'd be

720
00:29:43.060 --> 00:29:45.340
a delay between one image and the other. If

721
00:29:45.340 --> 00:29:47.260
you could do that with five images, then you

722
00:29:47.260 --> 00:29:49.880
can learn an awful lot. Um, there is another

723
00:29:49.880 --> 00:29:51.920
quote, uh, from one of the investigators.

724
00:29:52.320 --> 00:29:54.960
Usually people use quasars,

725
00:29:55.570 --> 00:29:58.400
uh, for this purpose of time

726
00:29:58.400 --> 00:30:00.880
delay, uh, since they

727
00:30:00.880 --> 00:30:03.720
naturally vary, uh, very

728
00:30:03.720 --> 00:30:06.400
rapidly as a function of time. But,

729
00:30:06.630 --> 00:30:08.800
uh, uh, her, uh, s.

730
00:30:09.430 --> 00:30:11.440
Uh three is star forming,

731
00:30:12.160 --> 00:30:14.200
raising the prospect of detecting a

732
00:30:14.200 --> 00:30:17.150
supernova, uh, whose light would arrive

733
00:30:17.150 --> 00:30:19.190
at each image at different times, giving the

734
00:30:19.190 --> 00:30:21.550
time delay. And from that you can actually

735
00:30:22.270 --> 00:30:24.910
work out what the Hubble constant is. And the

736
00:30:24.910 --> 00:30:27.710
Hubble constant is still, uh, a topic of

737
00:30:27.710 --> 00:30:29.430
discussion. We've talked about the Hubble

738
00:30:29.430 --> 00:30:31.830
tension several times. This will give us

739
00:30:31.830 --> 00:30:33.270
another way of measuring that, and that will

740
00:30:33.270 --> 00:30:34.030
be very interesting.

741
00:30:35.230 --> 00:30:37.510
Andrew Dunkley: That would indeed be quite exciting. Gee,

742
00:30:37.510 --> 00:30:39.190
we've covered some really interesting stories

743
00:30:39.190 --> 00:30:41.390
today, Fred Watson, haven't we? Just if you'd

744
00:30:41.390 --> 00:30:43.780
like to read more about that particular

745
00:30:43.940 --> 00:30:45.540
Einstein cross story, you can do

746
00:30:45.540 --> 00:30:48.460
it@skyandtelescope.org or you

747
00:30:48.460 --> 00:30:51.340
can read the, uh, full paper which has

748
00:30:51.340 --> 00:30:53.780
been published in the Astrophysical Journal.

749
00:30:55.050 --> 00:30:57.540
Uh, we are just about done, Fred Watson.

750
00:30:57.540 --> 00:31:00.030
Before we finish, I might just direct, uh,

751
00:31:00.420 --> 00:31:03.020
people to the Space Nuts podcast group. This

752
00:31:03.020 --> 00:31:05.980
is a Facebook page that was created

753
00:31:05.980 --> 00:31:08.660
by our audience and has,

754
00:31:08.770 --> 00:31:11.290
uh, quite a few thousand people. Uh,

755
00:31:11.340 --> 00:31:14.260
2.7 is 20, uh, 700

756
00:31:14.260 --> 00:31:17.100
members. It's got now, um, people who

757
00:31:17.180 --> 00:31:19.500
discuss, uh, science and

758
00:31:19.740 --> 00:31:22.380
astronomy together, publish stories that,

759
00:31:22.430 --> 00:31:24.980
uh, they are interested in, um, ask

760
00:31:24.980 --> 00:31:27.740
questions of each other, try to solve all the

761
00:31:27.740 --> 00:31:30.060
mysteries of the universe. Uh, it's a great

762
00:31:30.060 --> 00:31:32.380
little group, so if you'd like to join, it's

763
00:31:32.700 --> 00:31:35.020
Facebook. Uh, um, yes, the Space

764
00:31:35.180 --> 00:31:37.820
Nuts podcast group. That's what you've got to

765
00:31:37.820 --> 00:31:39.550
put in your Facebook search engines. Uh,

766
00:31:39.550 --> 00:31:41.460
Space Nuts page podcast group. There's also

767
00:31:41.460 --> 00:31:44.220
an official Space Nuts Facebook group if you

768
00:31:44.220 --> 00:31:45.940
want to join that as well. I think it's got

769
00:31:46.500 --> 00:31:47.860
around, um, about the same number of members.

770
00:31:47.860 --> 00:31:50.180
Probably all the same people. Very likely,

771
00:31:50.730 --> 00:31:52.180
um, quite a few of them anyway.

772
00:31:52.180 --> 00:31:54.380
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, I'm sure that's right. I am. I'll check

773
00:31:54.380 --> 00:31:56.820
that out. I'm not a big Facebook

774
00:31:56.980 --> 00:31:59.980
user, but once in a while I go online. I have

775
00:31:59.980 --> 00:32:02.660
to first of all find out once again what my

776
00:32:02.660 --> 00:32:04.940
password is because it keeps, seems to keep

777
00:32:04.940 --> 00:32:07.700
getting changed. So, um, I'll get into

778
00:32:07.700 --> 00:32:10.440
Facebook, um, or Face Ache as I call it. It's

779
00:32:10.440 --> 00:32:13.050
what my dad used to call me. Yeah, um,

780
00:32:13.050 --> 00:32:15.600
Facebook. Um, and have a look at SpaceNuts

781
00:32:15.600 --> 00:32:17.680
podcast group and see what they're saying.

782
00:32:17.760 --> 00:32:19.320
Andrew Dunkley: And I've got a shout out to our

783
00:32:19.320 --> 00:32:21.560
administrators who do a great job of keeping

784
00:32:21.560 --> 00:32:24.439
it all in ship shape condition. So thank you,

785
00:32:24.439 --> 00:32:26.360
Paul, thank you Misty, and thank you Steve

786
00:32:26.360 --> 00:32:29.160
and everybody else who's involved. There's a,

787
00:32:29.160 --> 00:32:31.120
there's a few people who look after it for us

788
00:32:31.120 --> 00:32:33.960
voluntarily too, I might say. Um, so,

789
00:32:33.960 --> 00:32:36.230
yeah, excellent, Fred Watson, we're done.

790
00:32:36.230 --> 00:32:37.390
Thank you very, very much.

791
00:32:37.630 --> 00:32:39.550
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's a pleasure and good to see you

792
00:32:39.550 --> 00:32:41.630
again, Andrew. And we'll talk again very

793
00:32:41.630 --> 00:32:42.350
soon, I think.

794
00:32:42.510 --> 00:32:43.550
Andrew Dunkley: Very soon, I expect.

795
00:32:43.550 --> 00:32:44.030
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

796
00:32:44.590 --> 00:32:46.270
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, Professor Fred Watson Watson, astronomer

797
00:32:46.270 --> 00:32:47.910
at large. And thanks to Huw in the studio,

798
00:32:47.910 --> 00:32:50.070
who couldn't be with us today. His, uh, his

799
00:32:50.070 --> 00:32:52.950
dog Einstein was naughty. He's very cross

800
00:32:52.950 --> 00:32:53.950
with Einstein.

801
00:32:53.950 --> 00:32:55.790
Professor Fred Watson: Oh, geez.

802
00:32:56.030 --> 00:32:57.710
Andrew Dunkley: And from me, Andrew Dunkley, thanks for your

803
00:32:57.710 --> 00:32:59.940
company. Catch you on the next episode as

804
00:32:59.940 --> 00:33:01.200
well. Space Nuts. Bye Bye.

805
00:33:02.240 --> 00:33:04.440
Voice Over Guy: You've been listening to the Space Nuts

806
00:33:04.440 --> 00:33:07.440
podcast, available at

807
00:33:07.440 --> 00:33:09.440
Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

808
00:33:09.600 --> 00:33:12.360
iHeartRadio or your favourite podcast

809
00:33:12.360 --> 00:33:14.080
player. You can also stream on

810
00:33:14.080 --> 00:33:17.040
demand at bitesz.com This has been another

811
00:33:17.040 --> 00:33:19.970
quality podcast production from bitesz.com