Solar Secrets, Cosmic Siblings & the Quest for Breathable Exoplanets

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Andrew Dunkley: Hello again. Thank you for joining us on

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Space Nuts. This is our weekly Q and A

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edition where we take questions from the

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audience. We go and find someone who can tell

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us the answer and then we pretend we're doing

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it. Um, my name is Andrew Dunkley. Your

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host. Fred's face went, no, we don't.

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Uh, coming up on this episode, uh, we've got

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a lot of, uh, solar questions. We've got a

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question from Andrew about the sun's ark.

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Ernie wants to know about the sun's siblings.

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And Mark wants to know about missions to the

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sun. You go, Mark. I'm not setting foot on

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it. It's hot enough here already. And we're

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going to finish, uh, off with a question

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about Earth, like planets. That's all coming

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up on this episode of space nuts.

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Generic: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9, ignition

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sequence star.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, space nuts.

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Generic: 5, 4, 3, 2. 1, 2, 3, 4,

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5, 5, 4, 3, 2, 1.

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Berman Gorvine: Space nuts.

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Generic: Astronauts report it feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: Back again for more. His name is Professor

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Fred Watson, astronomer at large. Hello,

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Fred.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hello. Hello, Andrew. Um, fancy seeing you

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here.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, it's quite unusual. Quite

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unusual. We're all decked out in blue today.

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You've got gun barrel blue, I've got the sky

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blue of New South Wales. On. That's

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the official sporting color of my state.

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Professor Fred Watson: I, uh, didn't know that. Yeah, yeah, I didn't

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even know there was sky blue.

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Andrew Dunkley: M. Yeah. Oh, uh, look, um, the, the,

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the official Australian sporting colors are

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green and gold.

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Professor Fred Watson: Green and gold, that's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: But that, that wasn't actually official, uh,

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until the 80s. Before that they just

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used to wear a pair of thongs and a cut off

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jeans and go to the Olympics.

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Professor Fred Watson: I think she'll be right.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, mate, no worries. Yes,

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um, we got a bunch of questions to deal with

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so we might as well hit the ground running in

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our thongs. I know there's some people

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laughing at that because thong means

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something else in other countries, but

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it's, it's a pair of flip flops or jandals or

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whatever you call them wherever you're from.

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Uh, first question comes from Andrew. It's

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about the sun's arc. I'm sitting here in the

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French Alps on Boxing Day, you lucky duck.

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Uh, slightly hungover thanks to,

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uh, an excess of Apreski, uh,

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last night and watching the sun trace

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an arc across the sky measured from mountain

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peak to mountain peak. But why an arc,

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the shape of which varies, uh, by the time of

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year, given the Earth itself is rotating

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on only one axis I know

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the Earth's tilted, uh, from, um, the

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vertical. But how does that

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explain the arc? Uh, with only one

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axis of rotation, shouldn't it be a straight

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line? That comes from Andrew Jones. Hope you

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had a nice Christmas, Andrew. Sounds like it.

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What a horrible place to be. The French Alps

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for Christmas.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Sounds great, doesn't it? Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: But he brings up an interesting point.

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Sitting there sipping on whatever it is he

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was drinking and, uh, watching the sun and

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going, hang on a minute.

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What's going on here? There's an ark.

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And it's not Noah's.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's not. That's right. Uh, it's a different

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sort of ark, uh, because it's spelled

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differently. It's got a C instead of a kid.

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Uh, it, uh. And in

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fact, so, so, uh, you

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know, Andrew's question is, uh. With

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only one axis of rotation, shouldn't it be a

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straight line? And the answer is it is a

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straight line. Yeah, but it's a straight line

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on a sphere. Uh, because we

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are, uh, our vantage point, uh,

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from Earth, uh, uh, we look out into

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space. We imagine something called the

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celestial sphere. It's a great way of, uh,

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working out the way things move in space.

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And, um, the motion of the sun and planets

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all fits together. What you imagine is a

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sphere of infinite dimensions. And we're

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sitting at the middle of it. We only see half

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of it because the other half is below the

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horizon. It's still there. The celestial

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sphere goes on below the Earth, this

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hypothesized sphere. Um, but,

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um, it's very useful, uh,

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a useful device for understanding how things

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move in the sky. And if you imagine

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yourself, uh, sitting in the French Alps

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with the celestial sphere above you,

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uh, you, uh, would certainly in the Northern

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Hemisphere be able to see, uh, the thing that

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we call the north Pole star. Polar star

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Polaris, uh, the pole star,

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um, faint star that, um, I nearly always look

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for whenever I'm in the Northern Hemisphere.

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Just to, uh, reconnect with it. It's at the

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end of the Little Bear's if you know

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your northern constellations. But that is

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the. With

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us sometimes. Yeah,

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they're great, the northern constellations.

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They've got great charm. Anyway, that's

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another story. So, um, that is the point

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about which the whole celestial sphere

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seems to rotate. And

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so, uh, the height of the pole star above

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your horizon, uh, is the same

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as your latitude. So if you're

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at latitude French alps is probably

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45 or thereabouts, maybe a

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bit more than that. 45. Uh, it means your

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pole star is going to be 45 degrees above the

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horizon. And this entire sphere

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rotates around that point. And

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so, uh, that's why, um, on a

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sphere, the Sun's motion is a straight line.

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It goes from the eastern side of the sky.

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Depends on the time of year as to exactly

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where it rises and sets. Sets, uh, but it

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sets on the western side. And so, um,

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uh, what looks like an arc to you

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is really a, ah, straight line bent by

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the celestial sphere. This apparent,

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um, you know, it's just

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a great way of imagining the sky because

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you don't have to worry about the distances

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of anything. You're just imagining everything

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projected onto this infinite sphere. And

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when you do that, as the Earth's rotating,

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the sun rises in towards the east and

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sets towards the west. Um, and

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uh, it follows basically an arc

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as we see it from our position. But

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in terms of the sphere itself, it's just

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going from one side to the other in a

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straight line.

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Andrew Dunkley: There you go. Sounds like putting in golf.

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Like every putt. They say every putt's a

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straight putt, except that,

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um, the green isn't dead flat and straight.

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So, uh, the ball will m. Move accordingly.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right. Yeah. In fact,

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um, that almost puts you into a

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different regime, uh, because that's

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effectively what geodesics are, uh, which

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are, uh, the way light behaves,

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uh, in general relativity. Uh,

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so light travels in what it thinks is a

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straight line, but it's going through

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different gravitational fields and

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gravitational wells. And so like, you know,

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like your golf ball, when you put.

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Putting, uh,

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it's moving around, it's wandering around.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Um, we have a quirk at um, Dubbo Golf Club

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where, um, if you want to figure out where

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the putt goes, work out which direction the

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river is. Yes, they always

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fall towards the river.

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Professor Fred Watson: Always remember, Andrew, that five irons

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don't float.

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Andrew Dunkley: They do not. It's a good book that. I don't

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know who wrote it, but it's a ripper.

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Professor Fred Watson: I should read this.

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Andrew Dunkley: Well, it's got swearing in it. Don't know how

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that happened.

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Berman Gorvine: Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Gosh, Disgraceful, disgraceful. And by the

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way, the French, uh, alps are at 45.8345.

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That was north, so. Very well.

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And 6.85, uh,

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6.8655 degrees east.

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That's right, yeah. Uh, thank you for

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the question, Andrew. Great to hear from you.

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Hope you survived the, um, the French Alps.

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Um, uh, adventure.

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Uh, our, ah, next question comes from a,

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uh, a new contributor. Hello, Ernie.

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Berman Gorvine: Hello, Andrew. And Fred, my name is Ernie and

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I'm reaching out to you from a small town

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near Buffalo, New York. I'm, um, a longtime

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listener and this is the first time I'm

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submitting a question. In a recent

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episode, a listener asked if astronomers

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have ever identified the star or stars

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that went supernova seeding the

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nebula our sun formed in with heavy elements.

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This got me to thinking. Stars typically form

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in clusters and I assume

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our sun isn't any different.

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Has there ever been or is there any

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active research that is looking for

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any of the Sun's siblings?

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Thank you so much, um, for doing this

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podcast. Really enjoy it. Always look

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forward when new episodes drop. Wishing

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you the best for the holidays.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thank you. Ernie, great to hear from you. A

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first time caller in. And great, um,

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question too. Great question. Sorry to hear

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about the Buffalo Bills. I don't know if

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you're into the American, uh, football, um,

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Ernie, but, um, we visited

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Buffalo, um, late last year and they were

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very, very hopeful that the Bills would

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come through. But they've, uh, been knocked

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out in the playoffs. So, um, very

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unfortunate, but maybe, maybe next year.

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They're certainly starting to look like a

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pretty solid outfit. So, um,

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yeah. Any work going into finding the son's

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siblings? Now I remember us talking some time

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back about the possibility that

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the son had a twin

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and they got separated at birth and they

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can't find each other. But they're going

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through the archives to see if there's any

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family history that can connect. Um,

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that. Yeah, but the sun would have

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been part of, um, I imagine a whole

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bunch of stars that were born in that,

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um, um, supernova

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situation. Is that what he was talking about?

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Professor Fred Watson: Well, that's part of the issue. Uh, the

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fact that the gas cloud in

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which the sun and the rest of the

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cluster that was formed at the same time as

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the sun, um, that was, uh,

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seeded by gases from a

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supernova explosion, which we have no

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knowledge of. But it's just the background

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interstellar medium is enriched by the

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elements that come from a supernova

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explosion. But, um, no, Ernie's question is

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on the money and the answer is yes. Uh,

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that's, um, to

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try and find the Sun's siblings is actually,

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uh, ongoing research and it's part of the

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subject that we usually call galactic

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archaeology. It's looking at the way our, uh,

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galaxy has evolved, uh, by

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studying in detail the chemical

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composition of the stars within

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the Sun's neighborhood within a few thousand

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light years. I was involved with all that

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with the Reif project a few years ago. And so

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one of the, uh, not the holy grails of that,

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but certainly one of the interesting aspects

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is to find stars that have

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identical chemical

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mixes to the sun. Uh,

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and um, if you can do that, if you can

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find them, uh, there's a good chance that

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they were born from the same dust cloud as

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the sun was. Uh, and so they might very well

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be solar siblings. Um, it may even

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be possible that, you know, we know that the

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sun's four, four and a half billion years

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old, about 4.6, 4.7 billion years old.

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Um, if you could look at the motion

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of stars that have the identical

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uh, constituents to the sun and you will be

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able to certainly m, measure their velocities

283
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quite easily, then you might be able to

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almost rewind back to a time,

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uh, when you could prove that they were all

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in the same place at the same time.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay. Yeah. All right.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, so the answer is yes,

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there is certainly research on all that. Uh,

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and yes, I had a couple of weeks in Buffalo

291
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once. I was a gas lecturer at the Kinesius

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College, uh, there. And it's very cold.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, it wasn't cold while we were there. I

294
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mean it's, it's a stone's throw from Niagara

295
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Falls, which is, yeah, like you could almost

296
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walk it.

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Professor Fred Watson: They were pretty icy when we were there.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, um, but I really enjoyed

299
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spending some time there and learning. Like

300
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they had a big exhibition on while we were

301
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there about the, um, one of the

302
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great canals that was built

303
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150 odd years ago now I

304
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think, um, and, and how it

305
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changed the entire region forever,

306
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um, in terms of trade and movement of

307
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materials and uh, fascinating

308
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place, really quite fascinating. Um,

309
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yeah. I suppose the problem with trying to

310
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find the sun siblings is, is the amount of

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time that's passed. It's not like you're

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looking back through your family tree a

313
00:13:08.300 --> 00:13:10.500
couple of generations which we're talking

314
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billions of years of movement.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Yes. But, but as I said, you,

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00:13:15.940 --> 00:13:18.180
you know, the way you identify them is

317
00:13:18.980 --> 00:13:20.780
not because they're close or anything like

318
00:13:20.780 --> 00:13:22.980
that, it's by their chemical composition,

319
00:13:23.580 --> 00:13:26.180
uh, which we can do out to

320
00:13:27.060 --> 00:13:29.460
many several thousands of light years,

321
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depending how, how precise you want it to be.

322
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Um, in fact there's an instrument on the

323
00:13:33.860 --> 00:13:35.700
Anglo Australian telescope which is called

324
00:13:35.700 --> 00:13:38.620
hermes, uh, which is designed exactly

325
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for doing that job at very limited areas,

326
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uh, regions of the spectrum of

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stars, uh, to look for

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exactly the amount of chemicals that are in

329
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those atmospheres of those stars. And that's

330
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the kind of instrument that you use to try

331
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and find the sun siblings. What, uh, I

332
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haven't said is whether there's been any

333
00:13:58.160 --> 00:13:59.120
success on that.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, it's bad to ask.

335
00:14:00.560 --> 00:14:03.560
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And, um, uh, I can't remember

336
00:14:03.560 --> 00:14:06.000
the answer. I mean, there are certainly stars

337
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which have got very similar chemical

338
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compositions and ages to the sun.

339
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Uh, I'm not sure just how near we are to

340
00:14:13.990 --> 00:14:16.310
being able to identify them as definitely

341
00:14:16.310 --> 00:14:18.990
coming from the same gas cloud and being born

342
00:14:18.990 --> 00:14:21.190
in the same cluster as the sun was.

343
00:14:21.750 --> 00:14:24.590
Andrew Dunkley: Well, according to a quick search I've

344
00:14:24.590 --> 00:14:26.990
just done. And this is an AI

345
00:14:26.990 --> 00:14:29.310
Response. Uh, yes, astronomers have

346
00:14:29.310 --> 00:14:32.150
identified several candidates. The solar

347
00:14:32.150 --> 00:14:34.430
siblings stars form from the same gas cloud

348
00:14:34.430 --> 00:14:37.320
as, uh, our Sun 4, 4.5 billion years

349
00:14:37.320 --> 00:14:39.800
ago. But none are definitely confirmed.

350
00:14:40.040 --> 00:14:40.760
Professor Fred Watson: There you go.

351
00:14:42.660 --> 00:14:45.480
Andrew Dunkley: Um, they. Maybe they don't want to be found.

352
00:14:45.560 --> 00:14:48.400
Maybe, maybe our, our son was, you know, the

353
00:14:48.400 --> 00:14:50.200
black sheep of the family and they all went,

354
00:14:50.200 --> 00:14:52.199
now we're out of here. We know what's going

355
00:14:52.199 --> 00:14:53.240
to happen around this place.

356
00:14:53.960 --> 00:14:55.760
Professor Fred Watson: It's going to form planets and then where

357
00:14:55.760 --> 00:14:56.360
will we be?

358
00:14:56.440 --> 00:14:58.120
Andrew Dunkley: And then there'll be humans and then.

359
00:14:58.360 --> 00:14:59.280
Professor Fred Watson: That's right, exactly.

360
00:14:59.280 --> 00:15:01.800
Andrew Dunkley: You know, they'll want us. They'll want us to

361
00:15:01.800 --> 00:15:03.600
pay them money or something. Yeah, I don't

362
00:15:03.600 --> 00:15:05.780
know. Uh, um, but it was a great question,

363
00:15:05.780 --> 00:15:07.620
Ernie. Thanks for sending it in. And please

364
00:15:07.620 --> 00:15:10.460
do so again. This is Space Nuts with

365
00:15:10.460 --> 00:15:13.140
Andrew Dunkley and Professor Fred Watson.

366
00:15:15.060 --> 00:15:17.300
Generic: Hey, that's one of the better sims, believe

367
00:15:17.300 --> 00:15:19.700
me. We've had a couple of cardiac arrests

368
00:15:19.700 --> 00:15:21.860
down here too, Pete. There wasn't any tonnage

369
00:15:21.860 --> 00:15:22.660
for that up here.

370
00:15:22.820 --> 00:15:25.580
Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts. I love that

371
00:15:25.580 --> 00:15:27.780
one. No time for a cardiac arrest.

372
00:15:28.560 --> 00:15:30.980
Uh, let's carry, uh, on to our

373
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next question. That comes from Mark. It's

374
00:15:34.160 --> 00:15:36.560
another story about this, uh, question about

375
00:15:36.560 --> 00:15:38.480
the sun. Hi, Andrew and Fred. Are there any

376
00:15:38.480 --> 00:15:41.080
plans to send a spacecraft to the sun? And I

377
00:15:41.080 --> 00:15:44.000
mean up close and personal. Uh, the

378
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data they could get would be invaluable and

379
00:15:46.440 --> 00:15:49.240
could really tighten up some loose ends

380
00:15:49.240 --> 00:15:52.200
on what we think we know. Uh, keep up the

381
00:15:52.200 --> 00:15:54.920
great work. That's Mark from Sussex.

382
00:15:55.560 --> 00:15:58.350
Sussex in England, I assume. England. Uh,

383
00:15:58.520 --> 00:15:59.800
I'm pretty sure that'd be right.

384
00:15:59.960 --> 00:16:02.120
Professor Fred Watson: Here's how you said I used to live in Sussex

385
00:16:02.120 --> 00:16:03.440
as well. Yes.

386
00:16:03.440 --> 00:16:05.200
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I think we mentioned that a week or two

387
00:16:05.200 --> 00:16:08.000
ago. So we've had a few from Sussex of

388
00:16:08.000 --> 00:16:08.280
late.

389
00:16:08.680 --> 00:16:11.080
Professor Fred Watson: The Royal Greenwich Observatory used to be.

390
00:16:11.560 --> 00:16:13.720
This is a place called Hersmondsew. Yeah.

391
00:16:14.440 --> 00:16:16.560
Not far from where William the conqueror

392
00:16:16.560 --> 00:16:18.120
landed in 1066.

393
00:16:18.520 --> 00:16:19.080
Andrew Dunkley: Okay.

394
00:16:19.080 --> 00:16:21.670
Professor Fred Watson: It was all very historic place. Um,

395
00:16:21.880 --> 00:16:23.400
and the Royal Observatory was actually

396
00:16:23.400 --> 00:16:23.960
Defeated.

397
00:16:24.440 --> 00:16:26.790
Andrew Dunkley: He defeated King Henry, was it

398
00:16:27.260 --> 00:16:29.740
Harold? I knew it started with an H. Yeah,

399
00:16:30.980 --> 00:16:33.980
um, so yeah, look, I, I, I, I

400
00:16:33.980 --> 00:16:36.360
know there are probes that are um,

401
00:16:37.100 --> 00:16:38.900
gathering information about the sun all the

402
00:16:38.900 --> 00:16:40.700
time. And in fact we had a recent probe

403
00:16:40.700 --> 00:16:43.179
that's name escapes me that actually touched

404
00:16:43.260 --> 00:16:45.300
the sun, which was a, uh, pretty

405
00:16:45.300 --> 00:16:46.300
extraordinary thing.

406
00:16:47.100 --> 00:16:49.780
Professor Fred Watson: And in fact that's the one that um, that

407
00:16:49.780 --> 00:16:52.740
really Mark is asking about. Uh, uh, are

408
00:16:52.740 --> 00:16:54.860
there any plans to send a spacecraft to the

409
00:16:54.860 --> 00:16:57.770
sun? Uh, and I mean up close and personal. It

410
00:16:57.770 --> 00:17:00.410
is already there. Uh, it's called the Parker

411
00:17:00.410 --> 00:17:03.370
Solar Probe. Uh, it's um, flown

412
00:17:03.370 --> 00:17:05.610
through the inner or the outer corona of the

413
00:17:05.610 --> 00:17:08.490
sun, uh experiencing those very high

414
00:17:08.490 --> 00:17:10.690
temperatures. It's got a heat shield. It's in

415
00:17:11.090 --> 00:17:13.850
an orbit that is highly elliptical, very

416
00:17:13.850 --> 00:17:16.690
elongated. So it

417
00:17:16.690 --> 00:17:19.570
spends some of its time close to the sun and

418
00:17:19.570 --> 00:17:22.290
some of its time quite a long way away. I'm

419
00:17:22.290 --> 00:17:24.450
not actually sure whether it is still active,

420
00:17:24.940 --> 00:17:27.419
um, but what it's done is it has

421
00:17:27.419 --> 00:17:28.939
enhanced our understanding,

422
00:17:30.920 --> 00:17:33.899
uh, of the way the corona is heated.

423
00:17:33.899 --> 00:17:36.699
The sun's corona is at several

424
00:17:36.779 --> 00:17:39.619
tens of millions of degrees. Uh, and

425
00:17:39.619 --> 00:17:42.499
the surface of the sun, the photosphere, this

426
00:17:42.499 --> 00:17:44.179
bit that we see is about five and a half

427
00:17:44.179 --> 00:17:46.899
thousand degrees. How does the outer

428
00:17:46.899 --> 00:17:48.699
atmosphere get so hot when you've got

429
00:17:48.699 --> 00:17:51.259
something relatively cool inside? And

430
00:17:51.650 --> 00:17:54.490
the Parker Solar Probe has revealed that it's

431
00:17:54.490 --> 00:17:56.810
almost certainly magnetism that does that.

432
00:17:56.810 --> 00:17:59.290
The transportation of energy via magnetic

433
00:17:59.290 --> 00:18:01.570
fields. You're about to tell me whether it's

434
00:18:01.570 --> 00:18:02.370
still going or not.

435
00:18:02.450 --> 00:18:05.410
Andrew Dunkley: It is, it is actually, uh, um,

436
00:18:05.410 --> 00:18:07.570
it is fully active, it's healthy, it's

437
00:18:07.570 --> 00:18:09.590
operating normally as at early uh,

438
00:18:09.850 --> 00:18:12.650
2026. It's done 26

439
00:18:12.650 --> 00:18:15.610
close approach approaches to the

440
00:18:15.610 --> 00:18:18.420
sun. Um, and that was up

441
00:18:18.420 --> 00:18:21.420
to December of last year. And it

442
00:18:21.470 --> 00:18:23.900
uh, will continue to orbit the Sun. It'll set

443
00:18:23.900 --> 00:18:26.700
speed records while it's doing it. Uh, it's

444
00:18:26.700 --> 00:18:28.520
been doing some extraordinary things. Uh,

445
00:18:28.780 --> 00:18:31.300
what I find extraordinary is that it can

446
00:18:31.300 --> 00:18:33.620
survive temperatures around two and a half

447
00:18:33.620 --> 00:18:36.520
thousand degrees Fahrenheit. Um,

448
00:18:37.020 --> 00:18:38.380
that's mighty warm.

449
00:18:39.340 --> 00:18:42.180
Professor Fred Watson: Yep, with a cleverly designed heat

450
00:18:42.180 --> 00:18:44.460
shield. I think that's what keeps uh, the

451
00:18:44.880 --> 00:18:47.200
spacecraft cool and lets it continue its

452
00:18:47.200 --> 00:18:49.200
work. It's a very successful mission.

453
00:18:50.080 --> 00:18:52.720
Andrew Dunkley: Are there any other probes working out there?

454
00:18:52.720 --> 00:18:55.680
I mean there are observer probes I

455
00:18:55.680 --> 00:18:57.480
believe. They're not designed to go in and

456
00:18:57.480 --> 00:19:00.479
out of the Sun's corona, but they're sort of

457
00:19:00.479 --> 00:19:02.240
keeping a close eye on it.

458
00:19:02.880 --> 00:19:05.760
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Uh, so the sun's

459
00:19:05.760 --> 00:19:08.760
observed from a uh, safer distance, uh, up

460
00:19:08.760 --> 00:19:11.080
close and Personal uh, compared with where we

461
00:19:11.080 --> 00:19:13.880
are on Earth, uh there's a flotilla of uh,

462
00:19:14.840 --> 00:19:17.140
uh, observatories looking at the various

463
00:19:17.140 --> 00:19:19.620
aspects of the sun. We also now have

464
00:19:20.340 --> 00:19:22.780
um, a very large ground based

465
00:19:22.780 --> 00:19:25.620
telescope that is providing the most

466
00:19:25.620 --> 00:19:28.059
amazing images of the Sun's photosphere.

467
00:19:28.059 --> 00:19:30.820
That's the visible sphere of the sun.

468
00:19:31.060 --> 00:19:33.620
Uh, it's the Daniel K Enoui Solar

469
00:19:33.620 --> 00:19:36.180
Telescope. It's on top of Haleakala on the

470
00:19:36.180 --> 00:19:38.790
island of Maui, uh, in the

471
00:19:38.790 --> 00:19:41.710
Hawaiian uh, islands. Marnie and

472
00:19:41.710 --> 00:19:43.070
I got married in front of it.

473
00:19:43.310 --> 00:19:45.840
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I remember. Yeah. Ah, um,

474
00:19:46.430 --> 00:19:48.710
they have great names for stuff in Hawaii

475
00:19:48.710 --> 00:19:49.230
don't they?

476
00:19:49.870 --> 00:19:50.910
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah they do.

477
00:19:52.430 --> 00:19:54.790
Andrew Dunkley: Just rolls off the tongue that one. Uh, there

478
00:19:54.790 --> 00:19:57.710
are plenty of probes actually um, Mark

479
00:19:57.710 --> 00:19:59.950
that are, that are wandering around the sun.

480
00:19:59.950 --> 00:20:02.830
There's the Solar Orbiter which is a, an ESA

481
00:20:02.910 --> 00:20:05.700
NASA mission, um, taking

482
00:20:05.700 --> 00:20:08.100
high resolution imagery and gathering data

483
00:20:08.100 --> 00:20:09.660
about the Sun. There's another one that was

484
00:20:09.660 --> 00:20:12.380
launched in 2023, uh, an

485
00:20:12.380 --> 00:20:15.140
Indian mission, uh, which is dedicated to

486
00:20:15.540 --> 00:20:18.340
observing the solar corona and it's the

487
00:20:18.420 --> 00:20:20.739
Aditya L1 mission

488
00:20:21.540 --> 00:20:24.060
and there's a whole

489
00:20:24.060 --> 00:20:26.740
fleet of uh, probes

490
00:20:27.060 --> 00:20:29.660
that are monitoring the solar winds. So the

491
00:20:29.660 --> 00:20:32.140
Solar Dynamics Observatory, soho, that's a

492
00:20:32.140 --> 00:20:34.740
famous one, uh, the STEREO mission

493
00:20:35.140 --> 00:20:37.420
because there are twin satellites doing that.

494
00:20:37.420 --> 00:20:40.140
I think we talked about that one, uh, Hinade,

495
00:20:40.140 --> 00:20:42.900
which is a JAXA mission, the GOES

496
00:20:42.980 --> 00:20:45.740
Solar Ultraviolet Imager and the Advanced

497
00:20:45.740 --> 00:20:48.740
Composition Explorer or ace, um, which

498
00:20:48.740 --> 00:20:51.700
is looking at the solar winds which have been

499
00:20:51.780 --> 00:20:53.780
very busy of late. We've seen some

500
00:20:54.100 --> 00:20:56.940
incredible uh, activity. The Sun's sort of

501
00:20:56.940 --> 00:20:59.740
reaching the end of its most active phase.

502
00:20:59.740 --> 00:21:00.390
Isn't it pretty?

503
00:21:01.020 --> 00:21:03.620
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, it's uh, sort of still at solar maximum

504
00:21:03.620 --> 00:21:06.620
but it gradually uh, dies away uh, to

505
00:21:06.620 --> 00:21:07.580
solar minimum.

506
00:21:07.900 --> 00:21:09.820
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, and from what I understand

507
00:21:10.540 --> 00:21:12.460
you've really only got a short period of time

508
00:21:12.460 --> 00:21:15.260
to enjoy the current

509
00:21:15.260 --> 00:21:17.780
level of activity before things start to ease

510
00:21:17.780 --> 00:21:20.540
off and we um, see less

511
00:21:21.110 --> 00:21:23.740
um, spectacular

512
00:21:24.460 --> 00:21:26.140
light shows. Would that be the way to

513
00:21:26.370 --> 00:21:26.730
describe.

514
00:21:26.730 --> 00:21:28.810
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, and certainly as the Sun's activity

515
00:21:28.810 --> 00:21:31.770
declines, the aurora that we see get

516
00:21:31.770 --> 00:21:34.210
further and further away from the equator. If

517
00:21:34.210 --> 00:21:36.650
I put it that way, uh, the more active the

518
00:21:36.650 --> 00:21:39.410
sun is, the lower latitude

519
00:21:39.650 --> 00:21:40.690
you can see it at.

520
00:21:41.810 --> 00:21:44.290
Andrew Dunkley: Well um, it's certainly uh, been

521
00:21:44.290 --> 00:21:47.210
spectacular lately. Thanks for the question

522
00:21:47.210 --> 00:21:47.460
mark. M.

523
00:21:52.210 --> 00:21:53.250
Space Nuts.

524
00:21:53.480 --> 00:21:55.690
Uh, our final question, or is it a sermon,

525
00:21:55.690 --> 00:21:58.650
comes from Martin, Sit back, relax,

526
00:21:58.650 --> 00:22:00.650
grab a cup of tea. This is going to take a

527
00:22:00.650 --> 00:22:00.930
while.

528
00:22:01.650 --> 00:22:03.970
Berman Gorvine: Hello, Space Nuts.

529
00:22:04.450 --> 00:22:07.330
Martin Berman Gorvine here, writer

530
00:22:07.490 --> 00:22:10.210
extraordinaire in many genres

531
00:22:11.010 --> 00:22:13.650
with a question for

532
00:22:13.890 --> 00:22:16.400
my m. Work in progress. Um,

533
00:22:16.610 --> 00:22:18.450
my science Fiction novel

534
00:22:19.180 --> 00:22:21.420
involving a certain

535
00:22:21.580 --> 00:22:24.460
unpleasant, very rich dude

536
00:22:24.460 --> 00:22:26.940
called Egon Rusk,

537
00:22:27.660 --> 00:22:30.540
who wishes to see

538
00:22:30.700 --> 00:22:33.180
the stars with what he imagines

539
00:22:33.340 --> 00:22:36.060
is the master race, and comes

540
00:22:36.140 --> 00:22:38.460
to a rather unfortunate end.

541
00:22:39.330 --> 00:22:39.500
Andrew Dunkley: Um.

542
00:22:41.660 --> 00:22:43.740
Berman Gorvine: As I've been writing this,

543
00:22:45.370 --> 00:22:47.590
uh, their supposed

544
00:22:47.670 --> 00:22:49.910
destination is Trappist

545
00:22:50.150 --> 00:22:52.470
1E. Now,

546
00:22:54.710 --> 00:22:57.710
Professor John T. Horner mentioned on a

547
00:22:57.710 --> 00:22:59.910
recent podcast that

548
00:23:00.950 --> 00:23:03.510
all the planets in the Trappist 1

549
00:23:03.670 --> 00:23:06.390
system lack an atmosphere.

550
00:23:07.350 --> 00:23:10.150
So I was very concerned about that because,

551
00:23:11.320 --> 00:23:13.450
uh, I don't want my characters all choking

552
00:23:13.450 --> 00:23:16.210
and dying. So I

553
00:23:16.690 --> 00:23:19.410
had a look, and it seems, according

554
00:23:19.490 --> 00:23:21.410
to NASA, that it's

555
00:23:21.650 --> 00:23:23.650
Trappist1d,

556
00:23:24.720 --> 00:23:27.650
uh, as in David, that has been

557
00:23:27.650 --> 00:23:30.010
shown to lack an atmosphere. But they're

558
00:23:30.010 --> 00:23:32.690
still trying to figure out whether

559
00:23:32.930 --> 00:23:35.770
Trappist1e has one or

560
00:23:35.770 --> 00:23:38.380
not. Um, in any case,

561
00:23:39.020 --> 00:23:41.980
I was just wondering if there are any

562
00:23:41.980 --> 00:23:42.380
other.

563
00:23:44.880 --> 00:23:44.920
Professor Fred Watson: Uh.

564
00:23:44.940 --> 00:23:47.020
Berman Gorvine: Stars with

565
00:23:47.020 --> 00:23:49.980
exoplanets within, say,

566
00:23:50.460 --> 00:23:53.340
20, 30, 40 light years of Earth

567
00:23:53.980 --> 00:23:56.620
that might conceivably be

568
00:23:56.860 --> 00:23:59.660
roughly the mass of Earth and might

569
00:23:59.660 --> 00:24:02.620
conceivably have a breathable

570
00:24:02.780 --> 00:24:04.940
atmosphere. I mean, this is all

571
00:24:06.350 --> 00:24:08.980
kind of off the wall satirical, uh,

572
00:24:09.230 --> 00:24:12.070
sci fi, so it doesn't matter that much. But I

573
00:24:12.070 --> 00:24:15.070
was just wondering about your thoughts. And

574
00:24:15.070 --> 00:24:16.270
I don't mean to,

575
00:24:18.260 --> 00:24:20.430
uh, disparage Professor

576
00:24:20.750 --> 00:24:22.000
Horner, um,

577
00:24:23.950 --> 00:24:26.830
but I just suspect that he did

578
00:24:26.910 --> 00:24:29.790
see that Trappist1d

579
00:24:29.950 --> 00:24:32.230
lacks an atmosphere and sort of thought,

580
00:24:32.230 --> 00:24:35.130
well, maybe that's all the planets in

581
00:24:35.130 --> 00:24:37.210
that system. And also

582
00:24:38.810 --> 00:24:41.770
I, um, would like to conclude by

583
00:24:41.770 --> 00:24:44.650
reading a poem that I've

584
00:24:44.650 --> 00:24:46.810
just written that is a riff on,

585
00:24:49.620 --> 00:24:52.490
uh, Robert Frost's famous, uh, Fire

586
00:24:52.490 --> 00:24:55.250
and Ice about the back and

587
00:24:55.250 --> 00:24:58.090
forth debate over the Big Bang

588
00:24:58.170 --> 00:25:01.160
versus the Big Crunch, also known as

589
00:25:01.160 --> 00:25:03.960
the Gnab Gib, although I don't love that

590
00:25:03.960 --> 00:25:06.520
term because it sort of sounds like a lost

591
00:25:06.680 --> 00:25:09.000
Bee Gee. So,

592
00:25:09.400 --> 00:25:12.000
um, swell or

593
00:25:12.000 --> 00:25:14.800
crunch, Some think

594
00:25:14.800 --> 00:25:16.920
the cosmos swells for I.

595
00:25:17.640 --> 00:25:20.520
Some see a crunch of aging

596
00:25:20.520 --> 00:25:23.480
bones, I know and sigh. So might

597
00:25:23.480 --> 00:25:26.340
the cold get worse for I. But

598
00:25:26.340 --> 00:25:29.300
pressure hits you like a punch. You feel

599
00:25:29.300 --> 00:25:32.300
your skin begin to burn. And

600
00:25:32.380 --> 00:25:35.100
so I have a dreadful hunch

601
00:25:35.420 --> 00:25:38.020
we may all learn we must all

602
00:25:38.020 --> 00:25:40.860
bunch. Berman

603
00:25:40.860 --> 00:25:43.580
Gourvine over and out.

604
00:25:44.860 --> 00:25:47.020
Andrew Dunkley: Never leaves you wondering. Martin,

605
00:25:48.540 --> 00:25:49.500
thanks for the question.

606
00:25:50.180 --> 00:25:52.700
Um, I'm going to go first here, Fred, because

607
00:25:52.700 --> 00:25:55.180
only this morning, by coincidence, did I read

608
00:25:55.180 --> 00:25:57.490
a story. And it's a little bit of an eye

609
00:25:57.560 --> 00:25:59.520
irony in this because it comes from the

610
00:25:59.520 --> 00:26:01.520
University of Southern Queensland where

611
00:26:01.520 --> 00:26:03.640
Professor Jonti Horner works.

612
00:26:04.440 --> 00:26:07.120
And it's. This has been published on the

613
00:26:07.120 --> 00:26:09.950
abc, uh, science website. Uh,

614
00:26:10.440 --> 00:26:12.640
so it basically says that the, that

615
00:26:12.640 --> 00:26:14.400
astronomers at the University of Southern

616
00:26:14.400 --> 00:26:17.080
Queensland have discovered a

617
00:26:17.080 --> 00:26:19.680
potential candidate for an Earth sized

618
00:26:19.680 --> 00:26:21.840
planet. It's planet um, HD

619
00:26:21.840 --> 00:26:24.440
137030 b.

620
00:26:25.000 --> 00:26:26.800
It's a bit further away than Martin would

621
00:26:26.800 --> 00:26:29.600
like, 150 light years from Earth, but it

622
00:26:29.600 --> 00:26:32.520
orbits a sun like star and

623
00:26:32.680 --> 00:26:34.680
they're referring to it as a planet

624
00:26:34.680 --> 00:26:37.400
candidate. Um, the paper

625
00:26:37.400 --> 00:26:40.320
needs uh, one more observation to

626
00:26:40.320 --> 00:26:42.920
confirm the uh, status of planet.

627
00:26:43.320 --> 00:26:45.800
But this one is only

628
00:26:45.880 --> 00:26:47.880
slightly bigger than Earth. If it is

629
00:26:48.680 --> 00:26:51.680
indeed um, a planet. I

630
00:26:51.680 --> 00:26:54.240
think they think so. Uh,

631
00:26:55.340 --> 00:26:57.980
almost Earth sized planet orbiting

632
00:26:58.060 --> 00:27:00.620
a sun like star. Sounds like it's got

633
00:27:00.940 --> 00:27:03.220
some potential there. Coming out of the

634
00:27:03.220 --> 00:27:04.980
University of Southern Queensland. So that's

635
00:27:04.980 --> 00:27:07.340
ah, interesting news. Very interesting timing

636
00:27:07.340 --> 00:27:10.060
based on um, receiving Martin's question

637
00:27:10.760 --> 00:27:13.020
um, just before the publication of that

638
00:27:13.020 --> 00:27:13.340
story.

639
00:27:14.540 --> 00:27:17.260
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, um, and uh, Luke Martin's as

640
00:27:17.260 --> 00:27:20.140
capable as I am of looking all these up.

641
00:27:20.320 --> 00:27:23.140
Uh, the Wikipedia list of nearest terrestrial

642
00:27:23.140 --> 00:27:26.000
exoplanet candidates is probably the neatest

643
00:27:26.000 --> 00:27:28.240
source to go to because it gives references

644
00:27:28.240 --> 00:27:30.680
to a lot of the original papers of these

645
00:27:32.040 --> 00:27:35.040
in which the planets are described. Uh, um,

646
00:27:35.400 --> 00:27:37.480
it's uh, ah currently got,

647
00:27:38.520 --> 00:27:41.080
this is uh ones uh, within

648
00:27:41.320 --> 00:27:44.160
50 light years, uh, I put in when

649
00:27:44.160 --> 00:27:46.600
I went through the search, 34

650
00:27:46.840 --> 00:27:49.840
exoplanets, 11 of which probably lie

651
00:27:49.840 --> 00:27:52.840
inside the star's habitable zone. It's a bit

652
00:27:52.840 --> 00:27:55.720
more difficult to ah, as Martin was

653
00:27:55.940 --> 00:27:58.300
um, kind of hinting there, it's a bit more

654
00:27:58.300 --> 00:28:01.300
difficult to confirm the atmosphere

655
00:28:01.620 --> 00:28:04.180
uh, of an exoplanet

656
00:28:04.500 --> 00:28:06.660
because what you're trying to do

657
00:28:07.300 --> 00:28:10.220
is um, most of these are discovered by the

658
00:28:10.220 --> 00:28:12.580
transit method. You know planets that go in

659
00:28:12.580 --> 00:28:14.020
front of their parent star, they dim the

660
00:28:14.020 --> 00:28:17.020
light slightly uh, as they pass in

661
00:28:17.020 --> 00:28:18.820
front of the parent star and you can measure

662
00:28:18.820 --> 00:28:21.730
that dimming. Uh but you can also um,

663
00:28:22.590 --> 00:28:25.310
if you've got very top line equipment

664
00:28:25.310 --> 00:28:28.310
like the Webb telescope, uh, you can also

665
00:28:28.310 --> 00:28:31.270
look at the spectrum uh change in the star as

666
00:28:31.270 --> 00:28:33.110
the planet passes in front of it. And if that

667
00:28:33.110 --> 00:28:35.630
spectrum changes then uh, you can

668
00:28:35.950 --> 00:28:38.510
be sure that the planet has an atmosphere and

669
00:28:38.510 --> 00:28:41.120
you can actually see what gases are ah,

670
00:28:41.390 --> 00:28:44.180
actually present in the atmosphere. So um,

671
00:28:44.190 --> 00:28:46.150
that's a much more difficult observation and

672
00:28:46.150 --> 00:28:48.190
I think that's why uh, it's a bit of a

673
00:28:48.190 --> 00:28:50.310
struggle for Martin to find, to apply,

674
00:28:50.540 --> 00:28:53.500
identify with certainty uh, which of these

675
00:28:53.660 --> 00:28:56.380
exoplanets might have an atmosphere. I might

676
00:28:56.380 --> 00:28:58.340
leave him to that and remind him that since

677
00:28:58.340 --> 00:29:00.140
he's writing fiction he can do anything like

678
00:29:00.140 --> 00:29:03.020
with these planets, anything he wants.

679
00:29:04.300 --> 00:29:07.260
Andrew Dunkley: I'm um, well into my trilogy Fred. I've

680
00:29:07.420 --> 00:29:09.380
written uh, the first book and I'm six

681
00:29:09.380 --> 00:29:12.380
chapters into the second book. And still,

682
00:29:12.540 --> 00:29:15.220
the ideas are still coming. I'm wondering

683
00:29:15.220 --> 00:29:17.740
when I'll hit the brick wall. But yeah, it's,

684
00:29:17.740 --> 00:29:19.460
it's going well at the moment. I'm enjoying

685
00:29:19.460 --> 00:29:21.260
it. So I'm not going to give anything.

686
00:29:21.260 --> 00:29:23.900
Professor Fred Watson: Away, but m. You're making it up as you go

687
00:29:23.900 --> 00:29:23.990
along.

688
00:29:23.990 --> 00:29:26.900
Andrew Dunkley: Um, that's exactly how I'm doing it.

689
00:29:27.140 --> 00:29:28.900
I'll get to the next chapter and go, okay,

690
00:29:28.900 --> 00:29:30.700
where do I want this to go? And I just let my

691
00:29:30.700 --> 00:29:33.580
imagination run wild. So, um, that's

692
00:29:33.580 --> 00:29:35.780
how I've always written. I don't, you know,

693
00:29:35.940 --> 00:29:38.060
started at school doing it that way when I

694
00:29:38.060 --> 00:29:39.460
won a composition contest.

695
00:29:39.780 --> 00:29:40.420
Professor Fred Watson: Very good.

696
00:29:40.580 --> 00:29:43.340
Andrew Dunkley: And that was that. Um, so,

697
00:29:43.340 --> 00:29:45.410
yeah, we, we covered Martin's question. Great

698
00:29:45.410 --> 00:29:48.410
poetry, by the way. The Big Crunch. Yeah,

699
00:29:48.410 --> 00:29:50.370
nice work. Thanks, Martin. Good to hear from

700
00:29:50.370 --> 00:29:52.370
you, as always. If you'd like to send

701
00:29:52.370 --> 00:29:54.770
questions into us, you can do so on our

702
00:29:54.770 --> 00:29:57.690
website, spacenutspodcast.com spacenuts

703
00:29:57.770 --> 00:30:00.650
IO choose your URL wisely

704
00:30:01.050 --> 00:30:03.890
and just click the, uh, AMA button,

705
00:30:03.890 --> 00:30:06.090
which stands for Ask me anything.

706
00:30:06.970 --> 00:30:08.890
And that's what we're all about. And don't

707
00:30:08.890 --> 00:30:10.250
forget to tell us who you are or where you're

708
00:30:10.250 --> 00:30:12.490
from. You can send text or audio questions,

709
00:30:13.050 --> 00:30:14.770
uh, and plenty of other things to see and do

710
00:30:14.770 --> 00:30:16.430
on our website as well. Well, uh, one thing

711
00:30:16.430 --> 00:30:18.750
we do ask is if you, um. It doesn't matter

712
00:30:18.750 --> 00:30:20.270
what platform you're on, whether it's

713
00:30:20.270 --> 00:30:23.270
YouTube Music or Spreaker or, uh, Apple

714
00:30:23.270 --> 00:30:25.510
Podcasts, please leave a review.

715
00:30:26.290 --> 00:30:28.430
Uh, the more the merrier. Uh, they do help,

716
00:30:28.430 --> 00:30:31.030
apparently, to, um, find more

717
00:30:31.030 --> 00:30:33.590
listeners, and that's what we'd like to do.

718
00:30:33.910 --> 00:30:36.150
So if you could leave a review for us, we

719
00:30:36.150 --> 00:30:39.070
would, uh, appreciate it greatly. And thank

720
00:30:39.070 --> 00:30:41.030
you, Fred, as always. It's been great fun.

721
00:30:41.770 --> 00:30:44.000
Professor Fred Watson: Um, it's good fun or else we wouldn't do it.

722
00:30:44.880 --> 00:30:46.880
Andrew Dunkley: That's absolutely true. We're not doing it

723
00:30:46.880 --> 00:30:49.560
for the money. Um, no.

724
00:30:49.560 --> 00:30:51.840
Thanks, Fred. We'll see you next week.

725
00:30:52.880 --> 00:30:54.520
Professor, uh, Fred Watson, astronomer at

726
00:30:54.520 --> 00:30:56.320
large. And thanks to Huw in the studio, who

727
00:30:56.560 --> 00:30:58.520
couldn't be with us today because he's

728
00:30:58.520 --> 00:31:00.520
actually put his hand up from Mission to the

729
00:31:00.520 --> 00:31:03.080
sun because it's a lot cooler there than it

730
00:31:03.080 --> 00:31:05.080
is in Australia at the moment. Can't blame

731
00:31:05.080 --> 00:31:07.320
him for that. And from me, Andrew Dunkley.

732
00:31:07.320 --> 00:31:08.880
Thanks for your company. We'll catch you on

733
00:31:08.880 --> 00:31:10.320
the next episode of Space Nuts.

734
00:31:10.320 --> 00:31:10.560
Berman Gorvine: Bye.

735
00:31:10.560 --> 00:31:13.500
Andrew Dunkley: Bye. You'll be listening to the

736
00:31:13.500 --> 00:31:14.860
Space Nuts podcast,

737
00:31:16.460 --> 00:31:19.180
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

738
00:31:19.260 --> 00:31:22.140
iHeartRadio or your favorite podcast

739
00:31:22.140 --> 00:31:24.460
player. You can also stream On Demand at

740
00:31:24.460 --> 00:31:25.180
Bytes.

741
00:31:25.180 --> 00:31:25.580
Professor Fred Watson: Com.

742
00:31:25.900 --> 00:31:27.900
Andrew Dunkley: This has been another quality podcast

743
00:31:27.900 --> 00:31:29.579
production from Bytes.

744
00:31:29.660 --> 00:31:29.730
Professor Fred Watson: Com.

745
00:31:29.730 --> 00:31:31.610
Berman Gorvine: Um.