Quantum Light, Expanding Universes & Black Hole Mysteries: #502 - Answering Your Most Intriguing Questions

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Andrew Dunkley: Hi there. Thanks for joining us on a Q and A edition

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of Space Nuts. My name is Andrew Dunkley.

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It's always good to have your company. Thanks for joining

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us. All right, uh, what are we doing today? We're

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answering audience questions from all around the

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place. Well, mainly Australia, but one from New

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Orleans asking about black holes and plasma

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bursts. Uh, and Jordy wants to know where

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his food is. Uh, we're also talking about the

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minimum temperature of space, the effect of gas or on

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light and the starshot mission.

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That's all coming up in this edition of space

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nuts.

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Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start. Space nuts.

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Andrew Dunkley: 5, 4, 3. 2.

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Professor Fred Watson: 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4, 3,

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2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts report

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it feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: And joining us along with Jordy, not Jaunty Joe

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Jordy. Uh, it's professor Fred Watson, astronomer at large.

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Hello, Fred.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Uh, yes, John. Um, John,

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Jordy's in the back.

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Johnty's not. Yeah,

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Jordy the dog.

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Andrew Dunkley: He's um, he's always welcome on the show.

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Always welcome on the show.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, he had a good walk with me this morning. I, I'm

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good fettle.

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Andrew Dunkley: I'm sure he did. Um, now you're so

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tall and he's so small, I bet his legs go 20 to the

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dozen.

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Professor Fred Watson: M quite cute to watch.

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Andrew Dunkley: Be like a little wind up.

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Professor Fred Watson: It's what it's like. Yeah, absolutely.

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Andrew Dunkley: Oh, gosh.

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Um, now I, I, I, we, we, we've got some

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questions, a couple of text and a couple of audio.

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Now I uh, must, uh, preempt

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this by saying I had an eye check this

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morning and I had to have my pupils

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dilated. Right now what I'm looking at

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is absolute gobbledygook

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and it's very hard for me to read.

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Professor Fred Watson: So please, you want me to read it?

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Andrew Dunkley: I'll give it a go.

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Professor Fred Watson: Give it a go.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, everything's, it's all double vision

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and blurry. Um, but anyway, let's, let's

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see what, uh, happens.

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Uh, this question comes from Jim in New Orleans.

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I read where the Hubble telescope last

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fall. I assume you mean autumn for the people in the

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rest of the world. Um, I read where the Hubble

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telescope last fall observed what appeared to be a

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plasma beam of 3,000 light years emanating

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from, from the black hole at the center of Galaxy M

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M87 doing well so far.

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That black hole was estimated to be

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6.5 billion solar masses.

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I realized that questions concerning black holes

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are rather rare. Uh, on the

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podcast, however, I understand that When a

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plasma, uh, cools on Earth, it can either

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return to its original, original gaseous

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elemental state, or it can potentially

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reform into completely different elements. Given the

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near absolute zero temperatures in space,

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I believe that at some point the plasma beam

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from, uh, uh, the uh,

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black hole at M. M87 will eventually cool.

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Rather than being cursed as the ultimate destroyer

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of matter in the universe, perhaps black holes should be

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considered the ultimate recyclers of

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matter instead. Love the podcast.

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Uh, all the best. Cheers.

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Jim in New Orleans. Uh,

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is he on the money?

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Professor Fred Watson: Well, it's an interesting question. Yes. Uh, I mean, I think

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he's, he's right in the sense that

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the plasma, when it cools,

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um, will,

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uh, essentially turn, you know,

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what's a plasma? A plasma is an ionized gas.

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So it's a gas with an electrical charge. It's

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an electrified gas. When it loses its

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charge, it basically stays the same

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gas, uh, but is

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cooler. Uh, now the completely

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different elements idea would involve nuclear

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processes because, uh, that's the only way you can

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change the elements, despite what

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the, um, what the alchemists used to try and do.

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Uh, you can do it with accelerators. Uh, and

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it may well be that, uh, the conditions in

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some plasmas, like the one from the M87

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black hole, maybe they do, um,

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have collisions between the,

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uh, the ionized atoms, uh,

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that are of such high energy that you might split them

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or something of that. So I'm not familiar with that because

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I'm not a particle physicist, but in that regard, yes,

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if that happens, you've got, uh, a nice

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recycling process which, um,

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you know, is what goes on in a nuclear reactor as well.

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Uh, but nice to hear from you, Jim. Uh, glad you're enjoying

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the podcast too.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, um, there's so much happening when it comes

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to black holes. I mean, there's just. Yes,

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you know, it's not just the plasma. It's,

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it's um, you know, the

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hunger, if I can use that term, black

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holes, uh, they get the munchies. They probably smoke

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too much pot.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, is that what happens when you smoke too

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much pot?

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Andrew Dunkley: Apparently, I've been told, yeah. Yeah,

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Medical paper once,

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I spent a lot of time reading those.

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Um, but yeah, they're very active,

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um, parts of the, the

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universe. And there's so much we know that

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they do, but we don't know so much more about

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them. And we've, uh, only in recent times been

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able to image them. Yep, not so much

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photographs, but, um, it, uh, was infrared, wasn't

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it?

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Professor Fred Watson: That's Radio signals in the Event

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Horizon Telescope. That's right. And that's where this image comes from

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that, that Jim's talking about.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, so, um, yeah, the.

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And, and we get so very many

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questions about them. They. One of the great

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mysteries. Sorry.

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Professor Fred Watson: And I'll just correct what I just said. Uh, the,

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the Hubble telescope is certainly, um, what

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observed that, uh, plasma beam. Uh,

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but M87, of course, has had its,

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its structure, uh, imaged by the Event Horizon

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Telescope. Sorry, just. Just correcting myself there.

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Andrew Dunkley: That's okay. It's all good. Thank you, Jim.

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Professor Fred Watson: Appreciate.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, the question.

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Uh, our next question comes from, uh, one of our

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regulars, Buddy. Uh, we'll see

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what, uh, he's got on his mind this time.

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Buddy: Well, hello. This is Buddy from

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Morgan. All right, guys, um, I

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got one more good one. I'll leave you alone

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for a while. Uh,

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is the minimum temperature of space,

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like, in the dark? Uh, is that gonna get

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lower as the universe spreads out? And

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if so, is that going to affect how things

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root in the universe react? Like, is that going to

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make the hydrogen or, you know,

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like helium turn into a liquid or something?

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Um, all right, thanks, guys.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, thank you, Buddy. Um, so as the

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universe is expanding, is the minimum temperature

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of space going to get lower? And what effect

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might that have on the elements? I think that's sort of the

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pricey.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's a nice pricey. Um, and,

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uh, Buddy's rice, it is getting

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lower. Uh, so, uh,

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the minimum temperature of space is

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essentially the temperature, uh, that we record

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from the cosmic background radiation, which

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is 2.7 degrees above absolute zero.

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Uh, so 2.7 degrees Kelvin is the temperature

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of space. Uh, and,

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uh, if you think about what that temperature

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was when the universe was much younger than it

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is now, certainly, uh, in the

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aftermath of the Big Bang, that temperature was, you know,

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5, 6, 7,000 degrees Kelvin.

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So as the universe has expanded,

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that temperature has fallen. And that

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2.7 degrees is what we have now. And

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as the universe continues to expand, it will continue

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to cool, but not at a rate that would ever be

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detectable by human instruments. But it is

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cooling. Um, whether that changes

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the, you know, the circumstances

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of clouds of gas or whatever is a

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different question. And I suspect the answer is no.

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Uh, it may, you know, it would have a

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superficial effect, but I don't think it's

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got any really fundamental effect on the

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makeup of the, of the cosmos.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, um, let's focus

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on the, the Kelvin scale for a

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moment. Ah, it's, it's a measure of

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temperature based on the absolute,

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absolute zero, lowest temperature.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right. And

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that temperature is defined by

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being the temperature at which all

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motion of atoms stops. So

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temperature is um, a vibration of

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atoms. So as a solid gets warmer, the

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atoms vibrate more. As a liquid gets warmer,

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the atoms sort of slosh around more. And

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as a gas gets warmer, the atoms whiz around

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much faster, uh, in space. So um,

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the three states of matter there, uh,

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that, uh, that's to say that

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um, uh, at, at zero degrees

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Kelvin, uh, all atomic motion

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stops and we know it's absolutely

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zero. I think, um, some modern laboratories

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have got within a gazillionth of a degree of absolute zero.

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But it's one of those things you can never actually reach,

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uh, and get something that's whose

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atoms have stopped. As far as I know. Um, I might be wrong there, there might

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be physics laboratories where that's actually been done. But.

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Andrew Dunkley: Right, well, if you have, you know, chances are if you did achieve

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it, you'd never get home from work. Quite,

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you wouldn't be able to move.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: So, so obviously this is a dumb

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question, but, um, if you like, when you

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freeze a tray of ice in your fridge,

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you've got an old fashioned fridge like me where you have to actually get the thing

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out, fill it with water and put it in and.

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Professor Fred Watson: Wait, you do that too?

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Um, that's not

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absolute zero. So there's still

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movement.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. In the atoms.

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Andrew Dunkley: In the atoms, yes, that's right.

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Professor Fred Watson: Even though the ice looks pretty inert, uh, the

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fact that it's probably, uh,

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well, absolute zero is minus 273

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degrees Celsius. So if you're cooling it down

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to, you know, -13 or something, then you've

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still got another 260 degrees to

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go before you get to absolute zero. So there's

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still plenty of movement in the atoms of your ice. Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: What about out in the depths of the solar system

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where the ice is so cold that

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it's the same as rock here?

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Is that anywhere near absolute zero?

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Professor Fred Watson: It's about um, uh,

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minus 190 on the

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surface of Titan, which is where ice is

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certainly effectively rock. It's as hard as rock,

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uh, hard as granite I think was the way, um,

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Jonti described it last week. Yeah, um,

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but even then you still, you know,

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83 degrees away from absolute zero.

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Wow. Uh, it's a very, very cold temperature.

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Andrew Dunkley: Sure is. Um, yeah, I,

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I, I, it's hard to imagine that kind of cold when

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the temperature outside here gets to 9 degrees. That's enough

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for me.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, yeah,

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yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, so just to clarify one more

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point. Um, um, so absolute

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zero. Even though the universe is

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cooling, absolute zero is still absolute

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zero. That's not going to alter.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right. Yes, that's right. And, and the universe

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isn't at, uh, that temperature yet. It's 2.7 degrees

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above it still.

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Buddy: Okay.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. And that's the leftover heat of the Big Bang.

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Andrew Dunkley: Right. But it's slowly diminishing

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as, as the universe expands.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: But it could take a while to get down.

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Professor Fred Watson: Could it ever get down another degree? It

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will probably. If the universe

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carries on behaving as it does now. Uh, as it

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continues to expand. Yep. The temperature will continue to

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go down. Uh, it will never

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reach absolute zero. It might approach it

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asymptotically, which means it gets nearer and

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nearer, but takes longer and longer to do

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that.

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Andrew Dunkley: Right, okay. Very interesting. Great question,

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buddy. Thanks for sending it in. Good to hear

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from you as always.

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This is Space Nuts, Andrew Dunkley here with

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Professor Fred Watson.

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Professor Fred Watson: Three, two, one.

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Andrew Dunkley: Space Nuts. Now, if my eyes do not

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deceive me, I have a text question in front of me. Or it could just

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be a message from my wife that I probably shouldn't read.

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Uh, no, it's a question. We

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know that light travels at slightly different

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speeds in different mediums. Uh, we also

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see different mediums affect light via

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refraction since this is somewhat related

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to the density of gas. Can pressure affect

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this? Uh, if we go to the

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extreme case, is it possible for enough pressure,

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ah, of a gas, I assume cloud,

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or enough pressure of a gas in

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general to push back on light itself and

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stop it? That comes from Jacob in Western

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Australia. Um, I assume Western

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Australia. It could be an American state that has the abbreviation

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Wa I believe there is one, so

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could be either. But um,

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this reminds me of an experiment they did

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not so long ago where they actually did

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claim to have stopped light.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Um, so you can

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stop photons. Um, and I'm

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not sure about the

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mechanism that is used to do that. It's not just

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pressure. There's more to it than that.

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I think it involves basically grabbing

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hold of photons using optical

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tweezers, uh, to stop the light.

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Uh, and so you can stop light. It's been done

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exactly as you've said, Andrew. But, uh, it's not just

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pressure. Pressures does have an interesting. I mean

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it does affect the gas. So refraction,

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the refraction of gas is invent, is

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affected by the pressure of the gas. Um,

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what also is affected

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Is if you send light of a single

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wavelength through a gas at

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high pressure, um, it will spread

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into adjacent wavelengths. It uh, means that,

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you know, the way we see it is as a spectrum line. If

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you send that light through a

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rain, sorry, a prism or something like

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that, you'll uh, end up with a single line of

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light corresponding to that color which corresponds

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to uh, a certain wavelength.

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Pressure actually broadens that and so these

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lines become wider. Uh, the process

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is called guess what? Pressure broadening.

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And um, um, that's what we see.

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Uh, and that's actually how we can

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use light, uh, from stars to

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measure the pressure in the atmosphere of the star,

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uh, by how much the line of

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light is broadened.

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Andrew Dunkley: Okay, okay. All right.

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Um, I was just reading something that,

348
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um, because we were talking about the fact that they have

349
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stopped light in a lab,

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um, the way they did it

351
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was um, they used, as you said, a

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special medium like um, a cloud of

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ultra cold atoms.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes, that's right.

355
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Andrew Dunkley: Trapped the light's photons and it

356
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effectively brought the light to a complete standstill

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for a brief period. And that was work that was

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pioneered by physicists, um,

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uh, lean Howe, uh, from

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the Bose Einstein, um.

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Condensate. Condensate.

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Professor Fred Watson: Condensate, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: So, yes, your eyes aren't working.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, well, you're doing well actually. You're doing very well. If I,

365
00:16:04.140 --> 00:16:07.002
um. The eyes that you've got at the moment, I couldn't read any of the stuff that

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00:16:07.026 --> 00:16:09.690
you're looking at. A, um, Bose Einstein

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00:16:09.770 --> 00:16:12.530
condenser is basically, uh,

368
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it says peculiar state of matter

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where it behaves as a single quantum object.

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00:16:19.920 --> 00:16:22.858
Uh, so you know, you put all the atoms

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together and they all behave like one object. It's a bit like

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entanglement.

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Andrew Dunkley: Right. It's headache y stuff, isn't it?

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00:16:29.250 --> 00:16:31.470
Professor Fred Watson: It is, yeah. A very headache, yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Um, we gave uh, Jonti a lot of headaches while he was.

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00:16:36.002 --> 00:16:37.990
Professor Fred Watson: Oh, good. Well that's good. He

377
00:16:38.530 --> 00:16:40.458
complained his keep then every time.

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Andrew Dunkley: He was constantly having

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headaches. Um. All right, uh, so we

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00:16:46.034 --> 00:16:48.566
covered Jacob's question effectively.

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Professor Fred Watson: I, uh, hope so. Um, it's uh, really all I've got

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00:16:51.726 --> 00:16:54.530
to say about it. Unless you want to throw in a couple of.

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00:16:54.910 --> 00:16:57.766
Andrew Dunkley: Oh no, you're getting into the realm

384
00:16:57.798 --> 00:17:00.770
of science fiction if you ask me to start talking about this.

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00:17:01.150 --> 00:17:03.850
Professor Fred Watson: That's all right. That's perfectly acceptable.

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00:17:04.190 --> 00:17:06.370
Andrew Dunkley: Thanks, Jacob. Great. Uh, question.

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00:17:08.590 --> 00:17:10.810
Okay, we checked all four systems,

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00:17:11.550 --> 00:17:14.456
space nets, and our final question

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00:17:14.528 --> 00:17:17.032
today comes from Ash in

390
00:17:17.056 --> 00:17:17.784
Brisbane.

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Jonti: G'day Fred and Andrew. Ash from Brisbane

392
00:17:20.648 --> 00:17:23.544
here. Um, got a bit of a mind bender

393
00:17:23.592 --> 00:17:26.552
question for you. I'm, uh, just wondering if we

394
00:17:26.576 --> 00:17:29.340
were to take one of the breakthrough star shot

395
00:17:29.840 --> 00:17:32.296
micro spacecraft that we're going to send through to Alpha

396
00:17:32.328 --> 00:17:35.272
Centauri, but launch it 90 degrees to the

397
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plane of our galaxy, how far, ah,

398
00:17:38.210 --> 00:17:41.122
and for how long? Going to have to travel before I can look back

399
00:17:41.146 --> 00:17:43.790
and see what our galaxy looks like from the outside.

400
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Interested to hear your thoughts. See you guys.

401
00:17:46.930 --> 00:17:48.370
Love the show. Bye.

402
00:17:48.530 --> 00:17:51.154
Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Ash. I'm, uh, thinking that question

403
00:17:51.242 --> 00:17:53.230
came from one of the

404
00:17:54.650 --> 00:17:57.250
hypotheticals, um, that were thrown at us recently,

405
00:17:57.370 --> 00:18:00.322
asking if we could go anywhere in the

406
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universe and look at something, what would

407
00:18:03.306 --> 00:18:06.162
it be? And your answer was to go outside our

408
00:18:06.186 --> 00:18:09.164
galaxy and look back at it and see what it really looked like.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.

410
00:18:10.832 --> 00:18:12.920
Andrew Dunkley: I think that's where that one's come from.

411
00:18:13.040 --> 00:18:13.480
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

412
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Andrew Dunkley: So if Starshot was able to do that, uh, how long

413
00:18:16.576 --> 00:18:19.560
would it take to get out there far

414
00:18:19.600 --> 00:18:22.456
enough for us to be able to look back and go, oh,

415
00:18:22.488 --> 00:18:24.936
look, there's our, oh gosh, we need to take the garbage

416
00:18:24.968 --> 00:18:26.480
out. Um.

417
00:18:28.510 --> 00:18:31.032
Professor Fred Watson: Um, so, uh, the

418
00:18:31.056 --> 00:18:33.528
answer, rather remarkably, Andrew,

419
00:18:33.624 --> 00:18:36.340
is a number that you quoted in our last

420
00:18:36.750 --> 00:18:39.490
400,000 years. That's right.

421
00:18:41.630 --> 00:18:44.630
So I'm doing that as a calculation in my head. So

422
00:18:44.670 --> 00:18:47.062
Starshot is the,

423
00:18:47.166 --> 00:18:50.054
it's breakthrough. Starshot is still

424
00:18:50.142 --> 00:18:52.010
just a concept investigator, uh,

425
00:18:52.870 --> 00:18:55.414
that the idea with the project Breakthrough

426
00:18:55.462 --> 00:18:57.942
Starshot was to look at the possibilities of

427
00:18:57.966 --> 00:19:00.662
accelerating a spacecraft smaller than your

428
00:19:00.686 --> 00:19:03.662
mobile phone, uh, to something like a

429
00:19:03.686 --> 00:19:06.350
quarter of the speed of light so that you get

430
00:19:06.390 --> 00:19:09.038
to Alpha Centauri maybe

431
00:19:09.134 --> 00:19:12.110
in, um, rather than in, you know,

432
00:19:12.150 --> 00:19:14.926
4.3 years. Um, you get there in 16

433
00:19:14.998 --> 00:19:17.934
years or something like that. 4.3 years is how long it

434
00:19:17.942 --> 00:19:20.880
would take for light to get to us. Uh,

435
00:19:20.950 --> 00:19:23.710
you could do it in 16 years if you were traveling at four

436
00:19:23.750 --> 00:19:26.510
times a, uh, quarter of the speed of light. With

437
00:19:26.550 --> 00:19:29.358
conventional rockets it takes about 60,000 years.

438
00:19:29.414 --> 00:19:32.240
So that's the difference. So if you. All right,

439
00:19:32.280 --> 00:19:35.232
so you accelerate your spacecraft to a quarter of the speed of

440
00:19:35.256 --> 00:19:38.240
light, I reckon you need to be 100,000 light years

441
00:19:38.280 --> 00:19:41.152
above the plane to see our galaxy in all

442
00:19:41.176 --> 00:19:43.776
its splendor. Because that's its diameter. It's

443
00:19:43.808 --> 00:19:46.380
100,000 light years in diameter. So you

444
00:19:47.240 --> 00:19:49.664
push back, um, push

445
00:19:49.712 --> 00:19:52.576
out one, uh, hundred thousand light years, you'll

446
00:19:52.608 --> 00:19:55.584
see the whole thing, um, at, uh, a quarter of

447
00:19:55.592 --> 00:19:58.588
the speed of light, that's going to take you 400,000 years. So

448
00:19:58.664 --> 00:20:00.084
it's not as quick trip.

449
00:20:00.212 --> 00:20:03.092
Andrew Dunkley: No, no. And, um, yeah, it makes

450
00:20:03.116 --> 00:20:05.972
it very hard to um, to arrange really, because by

451
00:20:05.996 --> 00:20:08.612
the time it's there, no one will have

452
00:20:08.636 --> 00:20:11.220
remembered it, why it was.

453
00:20:11.260 --> 00:20:12.640
Professor Fred Watson: Sent, what it was.

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Andrew Dunkley: And then of course it sends back the photo. It's

455
00:20:15.796 --> 00:20:18.020
800 years. 800,000 years.

456
00:20:18.140 --> 00:20:20.708
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. No, um, actually it's

457
00:20:20.724 --> 00:20:22.468
not. It's

458
00:20:22.484 --> 00:20:25.434
500,000 because, because the light travels

459
00:20:25.482 --> 00:20:27.098
back at, you know, speed of light.

460
00:20:27.154 --> 00:20:28.266
Andrew Dunkley: Speed of light, of course.

461
00:20:28.338 --> 00:20:31.210
Professor Fred Watson: Half a million. Half a million years for the full mission.

462
00:20:31.290 --> 00:20:31.546
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

463
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Professor Fred Watson: That's doable, I think, Andrew, don't you?

464
00:20:33.618 --> 00:20:36.058
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, you know, I,

465
00:20:36.114 --> 00:20:38.906
I'm, I'm a fairly patient person. I'm just

466
00:20:38.978 --> 00:20:41.910
sure I'm patient. That, patient enough for that?

467
00:20:42.290 --> 00:20:43.530
Professor Fred Watson: No, me neither.

468
00:20:43.690 --> 00:20:45.802
Andrew Dunkley: Do you think Starshot will happen though?

469
00:20:45.986 --> 00:20:48.810
Professor Fred Watson: No, I think, I think

470
00:20:48.850 --> 00:20:51.850
the results that are coming out are promising. But

471
00:20:51.850 --> 00:20:54.814
uh, the Starshot is only a project

472
00:20:54.902 --> 00:20:57.490
to investigate whether it's feasible. Uh,

473
00:20:57.910 --> 00:21:00.510
so that will wind up. Then somebody's got to put the money

474
00:21:00.550 --> 00:21:03.518
in to not just build the

475
00:21:03.574 --> 00:21:06.430
spacecraft, which is probably quite cheap because

476
00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:09.310
it's small, uh, but to arrange for that

477
00:21:09.350 --> 00:21:12.334
Mylar, uh, light sail that's going to catch the light of

478
00:21:12.342 --> 00:21:15.262
the laser. And the big ticket item is the

479
00:21:15.286 --> 00:21:17.944
laser itself. Yeah, we currently

480
00:21:18.032 --> 00:21:20.740
don't have a laser that's anywhere near powerful enough

481
00:21:21.040 --> 00:21:24.008
to uh, accelerate something to the quarter of the speed

482
00:21:24.024 --> 00:21:24.792
of light.

483
00:21:24.976 --> 00:21:27.750
Andrew Dunkley: Which leads me to um, uh, um,

484
00:21:28.000 --> 00:21:30.840
a question without notice because we've actually, I think

485
00:21:30.880 --> 00:21:33.400
in recent weeks or months had two or

486
00:21:33.440 --> 00:21:36.088
three questions directly related

487
00:21:36.224 --> 00:21:38.888
to sending a mission to

488
00:21:38.944 --> 00:21:41.816
Alpha Centauri using Laser

489
00:21:42.008 --> 00:21:44.660
United spacecraft. Um,

490
00:21:44.910 --> 00:21:47.430
this is not science fiction. This is

491
00:21:47.470 --> 00:21:50.246
feasible and

492
00:21:50.318 --> 00:21:52.982
doable. We've uh, been doing all sorts of experiments with

493
00:21:53.006 --> 00:21:55.606
spacecraft sending up wooden

494
00:21:55.638 --> 00:21:58.550
satellites and things like that. But this

495
00:21:58.590 --> 00:22:01.510
would probably be one of the most

496
00:22:01.550 --> 00:22:03.734
efficient ways to send a long haul

497
00:22:03.782 --> 00:22:06.246
spacecraft to another place.

498
00:22:06.398 --> 00:22:08.998
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, so you're quite right. It is doable, it's

499
00:22:09.014 --> 00:22:09.600
feasible.

500
00:22:09.710 --> 00:22:10.070
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah.

501
00:22:10.070 --> 00:22:13.004
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, but you need the technology which we don't have at the moment.

502
00:22:13.132 --> 00:22:15.996
And um, uh, I mean we should

503
00:22:16.148 --> 00:22:18.668
put a footnote in that. It has been done.

504
00:22:18.724 --> 00:22:21.340
There's light sail experiments have already been

505
00:22:21.380 --> 00:22:24.140
done, uh, in orbit around the Earth

506
00:22:24.220 --> 00:22:27.148
just by the spacecraft deploying a very large

507
00:22:27.284 --> 00:22:29.724
sheet of Mylar, uh, and

508
00:22:29.812 --> 00:22:32.700
the ground controllers noticing the change

509
00:22:32.740 --> 00:22:35.660
in the acceleration of the spacecraft as a result of that.

510
00:22:35.700 --> 00:22:38.440
That's, that's been done and I think you and I covered it

511
00:22:38.480 --> 00:22:40.560
actually on one of the shows. Um,

512
00:22:41.120 --> 00:22:43.850
so the principle works. Uh,

513
00:22:43.850 --> 00:22:46.744
light sail, that's a principle that

514
00:22:46.832 --> 00:22:49.730
will actually work well. But uh,

515
00:22:50.800 --> 00:22:53.496
for the kind of figures that you were talking about

516
00:22:53.568 --> 00:22:56.472
sending a spacecraft to Alpha Centauri. You

517
00:22:56.496 --> 00:22:59.240
need such a big laser, uh, that we

518
00:22:59.360 --> 00:23:02.360
simply don't have at the moment. And it may even. You might

519
00:23:02.400 --> 00:23:05.306
even have to uh, put it into orbit

520
00:23:05.338 --> 00:23:08.234
around the Earth, uh because if you had it on the ground it

521
00:23:08.242 --> 00:23:10.138
might fry the atmosphere or something like that.

522
00:23:10.194 --> 00:23:11.162
Andrew Dunkley: Oh, that'd be fun.

523
00:23:11.266 --> 00:23:13.866
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, we do.

524
00:23:13.938 --> 00:23:15.510
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, we really need that.

525
00:23:15.610 --> 00:23:18.506
Um, yeah, I love that it's

526
00:23:18.538 --> 00:23:21.030
feasible. I have a

527
00:23:22.210 --> 00:23:24.954
sneaking suspicion that we could never do it out of Australia

528
00:23:25.042 --> 00:23:28.010
because of electricity prices and you're talking about leaving a light

529
00:23:28.050 --> 00:23:30.170
on for 16 years. I mean let's face it.

530
00:23:30.210 --> 00:23:31.592
Professor Fred Watson: Yes, and it's a big light too.

531
00:23:31.706 --> 00:23:33.320
Andrew Dunkley: Not feasible in Australia.

532
00:23:35.140 --> 00:23:36.572
Not with what we pay for.

533
00:23:36.676 --> 00:23:37.880
Professor Fred Watson: You get a bill.

534
00:23:38.720 --> 00:23:41.388
Andrew Dunkley: Um, another thing that uh, has fascinated me in

535
00:23:41.444 --> 00:23:44.364
recent times, uh, and I read a couple of stories like this

536
00:23:44.452 --> 00:23:47.276
when you were away, Fred was

537
00:23:47.320 --> 00:23:49.868
uh, the ongoing development

538
00:23:50.004 --> 00:23:52.764
into new engine technology for

539
00:23:52.852 --> 00:23:55.772
space travel. And I know NASA's been working on

540
00:23:55.876 --> 00:23:58.320
something called the Deep Space Engine.

541
00:23:59.360 --> 00:24:02.320
Um, um, it's a thruster,

542
00:24:02.740 --> 00:24:05.084
uh, that uh, is showing a heck of a lot of

543
00:24:05.092 --> 00:24:07.720
promise in terms of its power.

544
00:24:08.030 --> 00:24:10.412
Uh, it's a low cost chemical compound

545
00:24:10.476 --> 00:24:12.880
engine. Uh, it's lightweight,

546
00:24:13.490 --> 00:24:16.380
uh, and it promises to do some pretty amazing things if

547
00:24:16.420 --> 00:24:19.196
they can perfect it. We're on the cusp

548
00:24:19.228 --> 00:24:22.204
of probably achieving breakthrough

549
00:24:22.332 --> 00:24:25.084
technology in terms of speed and

550
00:24:25.172 --> 00:24:28.112
long haul space travel by the sound of it.

551
00:24:28.296 --> 00:24:30.280
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I think we covered um,

552
00:24:31.000 --> 00:24:33.824
some stories last year about EU

553
00:24:33.912 --> 00:24:36.720
ion drives and plasma drives and things like that which

554
00:24:36.760 --> 00:24:38.256
are all very promising.

555
00:24:38.448 --> 00:24:41.312
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, I, yeah, I think it's uh, it's a pretty exciting

556
00:24:41.376 --> 00:24:44.272
time and uh, there's a lot of development going on, a

557
00:24:44.296 --> 00:24:47.200
lot of money being poured into it because there

558
00:24:47.240 --> 00:24:50.064
are rewards to be gained if you can get out there.

559
00:24:50.152 --> 00:24:50.890
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Ah.

560
00:24:50.890 --> 00:24:53.776
Andrew Dunkley: And um, you probably don't like the idea

561
00:24:53.808 --> 00:24:56.330
but they're. You know, we've already spoken

562
00:24:56.670 --> 00:24:59.450
about uh, in the last episode or two about uh,

563
00:24:59.450 --> 00:25:02.390
asteroid mining. That's a, um, that's a

564
00:25:02.430 --> 00:25:05.366
mission test that's been um. Well as we

565
00:25:05.518 --> 00:25:08.210
talked about in the previous episode, has fallen uh,

566
00:25:08.566 --> 00:25:11.510
foul unfortunately. But that, that's just the beginning.

567
00:25:11.590 --> 00:25:14.566
That's just going to be. Yes, it will continue on and of course

568
00:25:14.718 --> 00:25:17.574
mining the moon for that um, that, that mineral

569
00:25:17.622 --> 00:25:20.474
that's not so common on Earth. Can't remember the name of it.

570
00:25:20.622 --> 00:25:22.082
Professor Fred Watson: Something called water, I think.

571
00:25:22.186 --> 00:25:25.042
Andrew Dunkley: No, no, there's something else up there. Something else up there that

572
00:25:25.066 --> 00:25:25.346
they.

573
00:25:25.418 --> 00:25:27.922
Professor Fred Watson: Well, helium 3 is it?

574
00:25:27.946 --> 00:25:30.706
Andrew Dunkley: That's it. So there's a lot going on

575
00:25:30.778 --> 00:25:33.682
and um, yeah, I'm sorry to

576
00:25:33.706 --> 00:25:36.370
say that profit's uh, probably the driving

577
00:25:36.450 --> 00:25:37.058
force behind.

578
00:25:37.114 --> 00:25:39.106
Professor Fred Watson: It in the end. That's right.

579
00:25:39.178 --> 00:25:40.990
Andrew Dunkley: It's a very human thing to do.

580
00:25:41.290 --> 00:25:44.150
Yep, essentially.

581
00:25:44.490 --> 00:25:47.410
All right, thank you, Ash. Thanks, uh, for the question. Great

582
00:25:47.450 --> 00:25:50.322
to hear from you. And don't forget, if you've got questions for

583
00:25:50.346 --> 00:25:53.022
us, you're always welcome to send them to us via

584
00:25:53.086 --> 00:25:56.030
our website, spacenutspodcast.com

585
00:25:56.070 --> 00:25:58.370
or spacenuts IO

586
00:25:58.790 --> 00:26:01.550
and you just click on the little thing at the top called

587
00:26:01.590 --> 00:26:04.430
ama. Now, I know some time ago someone said, can you change

588
00:26:04.470 --> 00:26:07.470
it to something else so that we know where to

589
00:26:07.510 --> 00:26:10.190
send questions? Still working on

590
00:26:10.230 --> 00:26:13.134
that. Not sure where that's up to. I'll have to check with

591
00:26:13.222 --> 00:26:16.158
Huw in the studio, uh, as to where that's up to. But,

592
00:26:16.160 --> 00:26:19.032
uh, yeah, the AMA M button @ the top is the one you

593
00:26:19.056 --> 00:26:21.624
click on. When you click on that, which I'm doing right now,

594
00:26:21.792 --> 00:26:24.712
you can send us a text question just, um, with your

595
00:26:24.736 --> 00:26:27.640
name, email address and the message, or you can

596
00:26:27.760 --> 00:26:30.552
click start recording. If you've got a device with

597
00:26:30.656 --> 00:26:33.656
a microphone. It's really quite simple.

598
00:26:33.768 --> 00:26:36.616
And while you're on the website, um, just randomly click

599
00:26:36.648 --> 00:26:38.940
on, oh, I don't know, shop.

600
00:26:40.880 --> 00:26:43.752
Speaking about profitable humans. And, uh, look at

601
00:26:43.776 --> 00:26:46.488
all the, uh, Space Nuts paraphernalia. You can get

602
00:26:46.544 --> 00:26:49.272
stickers, you can get T shirts, you can get mugs,

603
00:26:49.416 --> 00:26:51.832
you can get, uh, polo shirts, dad

604
00:26:51.896 --> 00:26:54.792
hats, bucket hats. Uh, for those

605
00:26:54.816 --> 00:26:57.810
of you that live in those northern cold latitudes,

606
00:26:57.810 --> 00:27:00.632
um, you can get a ribbed beanie, all with

607
00:27:00.656 --> 00:27:03.608
the Space Nuts logo. You can even get Space

608
00:27:03.664 --> 00:27:04.700
Nuts socks.

609
00:27:05.280 --> 00:27:07.992
Professor Fred Watson: I need one of those beanies for the next time we go up to the

610
00:27:08.016 --> 00:27:08.520
Arctic.

611
00:27:08.600 --> 00:27:11.432
Andrew Dunkley: Yes, yes. Well, when

612
00:27:11.456 --> 00:27:14.312
we're up above the Arctic later this year, even though it'll be summer,

613
00:27:14.376 --> 00:27:16.936
the temperatures that we don't get down to here in winter,

614
00:27:17.048 --> 00:27:19.768
essentially. So we've bought ear muffs.

615
00:27:19.944 --> 00:27:22.940
So we should get some Space Nuts earmuffs, I reckon.

616
00:27:23.330 --> 00:27:26.140
Uh, there's also the, uh, the Space Nuts hoodie.

617
00:27:26.480 --> 00:27:29.464
That's a fun item if, you know, if you want to scare

618
00:27:29.512 --> 00:27:32.216
people. Not just Space Nut, but you've got a Space

619
00:27:32.288 --> 00:27:34.888
Nut hoodie on that'll freak people

620
00:27:34.944 --> 00:27:37.912
out. Yeah, that's all

621
00:27:37.936 --> 00:27:40.760
on the Space Nuts website and plenty of other things to see and

622
00:27:40.800 --> 00:27:43.470
do there. And if you want to become a Space Nut supporter,

623
00:27:43.600 --> 00:27:46.230
you can do that on the Space, uh,

624
00:27:46.474 --> 00:27:49.250
Nuts website as well. And thank you to all of our

625
00:27:49.290 --> 00:27:51.810
patrons. Uh, um, we think you are

626
00:27:51.850 --> 00:27:54.338
awesome. Um, thanks for getting behind

627
00:27:54.394 --> 00:27:57.378
us. Uh, and did I say goodbye,

628
00:27:57.394 --> 00:27:57.990
Fred?

629
00:27:58.330 --> 00:28:00.722
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, I'm not sure whether you got there or not, actually.

630
00:28:00.826 --> 00:28:01.522
Andrew Dunkley: Thank you, Fred.

631
00:28:01.586 --> 00:28:02.230
Professor Fred Watson: Nice.

632
00:28:04.570 --> 00:28:07.218
Good to talk to you, Andrew. And we shall speak again

633
00:28:07.274 --> 00:28:07.586
soon.

634
00:28:07.658 --> 00:28:10.546
Andrew Dunkley: We will indeed. And, uh, that's Professor Fred Watson,

635
00:28:10.578 --> 00:28:13.570
astronomer at large. And thanks to Huw in the studio, who couldn't be with us

636
00:28:13.610 --> 00:28:16.574
today because, uh, he actually thought Starshot

637
00:28:16.622 --> 00:28:18.894
was real. And, um, he went, bought a

638
00:28:18.902 --> 00:28:21.390
ticket, and it cost him a million

639
00:28:21.430 --> 00:28:24.270
bucks. So he's out, uh, doing his second

640
00:28:24.310 --> 00:28:27.214
and third job to pay it off from me, Andrew Dunkley. Thanks for your

641
00:28:27.222 --> 00:28:30.190
company. Catch you on the next episode of Space Nuts. Until then,

642
00:28:30.310 --> 00:28:31.170
bye bye.

643
00:28:31.990 --> 00:28:34.206
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