Galactic Encounters, The Flying Banana & the Fate of Andromeda

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Heidi Campo: And blast off. We are

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launch. We are go for launch on another amazing out

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of this world episode of space nuts.

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Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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10, 9. Ignition

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sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,

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2. 1. 2, 3, 4, 5, 5, 4,

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3, 2, 1. Space nuts. Astronauts

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report it feels good.

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Heidi Campo: I am your host for this lovely

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evening. For me morning for Fred your host,

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Heidi Campo. And joining us is

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Professor Fred Watson, astronomer at large.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hey, Fred, how are you doing? Heidi,

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it's great to see you after our

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trepidations yesterday.

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Heidi Campo: We are coming to you on schedule, but we

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are a day late. But the stories

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are still the same high quality you can expect.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

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Heidi Campo: we had a little bit of troubleshooting to do, but

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just like, the folks over at NASA, failure for

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getting this episode out was not an option.

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And we put our brains together and figured it out.

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Professor Fred Watson: So I think you did most of the brain work there, Heidi.

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I don't think I qualify as being included in that. I

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just, watched the magic happen when you finally appeared

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on my screen, which was good.

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Heidi Campo: Half of it was luck. I think I just clicked on the right buttons in the

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right order.

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but speaking of luck and a little bit of

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magic, it looks like our first story this week is some good

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news. We are not

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going, going to be crashing into the

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Andromeda Galaxy.

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Professor Fred Watson: so we believe. That's right. So,

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the mantra among astronomers

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for probably

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decades has been, hang on

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to your hats, folks, because one day we're going to crash into the

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Andromeda Galaxy, probably in about three

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and a half billion years. The Andromeda galaxy, just

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to remind people, is the

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largest, the

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nearest large galaxy to our own.

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Ah. And it is, actually rather bigger than

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our own galaxy. and so we,

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have measured the speed of,

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what we call the radial velocity, the closing speed

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between our galaxy and the Andromeda Galaxy. That was a

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measurement that was probably made getting on for 100 years

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ago, actually, and maybe more.

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and the two are closing up now. We do get questions

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occasionally on space knots from people saying,

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if the universe is expanding, why aren't

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galaxies all being drawn apart?

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And. Well, they are, but that's on the sort of

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mega scale. That's on the bigger scale of the universe. When you

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look at galaxies in the local environment,

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they are, sort of their motions are

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dominated by gravitational forces rather than

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by the expansion of the universe. And that's why in what

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we call our Local group, which is a group of about two dozen

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galaxies, the two Biggest are ourselves and Andromeda.

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they have motions that do not reflect the expansion

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of the universe because we're looking on too small a scale. It's when

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you look on the big scale that you see all galaxies,

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whizzing away from us. So, as I said,

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an easy observation to make. a long, long time ago,

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astronomers deduced that, yes, the Andromeda Galaxy

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is heading towards us. I can't actually remember. The figure I should have checked it

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out is something like 200 in the region of 200

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kilometers per second, which sounds fearsome,

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excep, but it's two, and a

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half million light years away. So there's quite a long

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time to go, which is why we're talking about three and a half billion

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years. So bringing us a little bit up

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to date, more than a decade ago now,

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a European Space Agency spacecraft called

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Gaia was launched. And Gaia was an

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astrometry satellite. And what that means is it

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measured very accurately the positions of

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stars on the sky, their

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celestial coordinates, the kind of equivalent of latitude and longitude

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that we call right ascension and declination,

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just to give them fancy names. so,

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that spacecraft, measured, of course,

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many, in fact, billions of stars in our galaxy. It's been one

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of the most productive spacecraft. It's now been switched off.

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but, it also had a look at the Andromeda

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Galaxy. And the reason for that was

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to see whether there was any possibility

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that you might pick up what we call a transverse motion.

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So what you measure, what's been measured for a long

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time, is the radial velocity. That's the velocity along

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the line of sight. And yes, Andromeda's coming towards

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us in that dimension. But there's,

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of course, also possibly, a motion across

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the line of sight. We call it the transverse motion. And

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if that was big enough, then you'd get a miss.

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The Andromeda Galaxy would, by the time it

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reached us, be somewhere else. It wouldn't be along the same

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line of sight. So, that was measured by

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Gaia. And sure enough, I think what they did was

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put up a limits on the transverse motion

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because it's a very hard thing to do for an

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object 2 1/2 million light years away.

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So, the results, from the Gaia

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analysis were that the collision is

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inevitable. It's going to happen three and a half

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billion years ago. Put it in your diary, everybody.

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however, a new analysis. And this is

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getting to the point now, by astronomers, if I

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remember rightly, yes, the University of Helsinki

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in Finland. A, place where we know we've got

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many Space nuts listeners, which is great.

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What they've done is they've said, okay,

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that's all fine and dandy. Those Gaia measurements

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are interesting. They seem to suggest that it

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is actually coming our way. but what they've

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said is, wait a minute. we are, not the only kids

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on the block. the Andromeda Galaxy and our own are not

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the only large objects in the Local Group.

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There are others, including a, galaxy with the marvelous

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name of M. M33, in the constellation of

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Triangulum, another nearby. A

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nearby galaxy, not as big as our galaxy or

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Andromeda, but it's big enough to have its own

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gravitational forces. It'll have a significant

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gravitational pull on both ourselves and

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Andromeda. And they also folded in

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one, of the two Magellanic Clouds. These, are small

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dwarf galaxies which are in orbit around our own galaxy. In fact,

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they're being swallowed up by our own galaxy. The Large

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Magellanic Cloud is, a, galaxy

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containing probably a few billion stars

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rather than the few hundred billion that we would get in a

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big spiral galaxy. so they've taken, the

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gravity of that object into account as well. And when

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they do, they, find that

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the gravitational forces of those

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two other galaxies might well

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pull the, you know, the two colliding

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galaxies aside so that they

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don't collide.

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they've reported this in, actually one of the most prestigious

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journals, Nature Astronomy. their,

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article in that journal is called no Certainty of a

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Milky Way Andromeda Collision. So what they've done

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is they've kind of, you know,

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put the odds of a collision at lower than we thought they were

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before. Still could be a collision. We won't be here

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to find out. But they've put the odds

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lower than before. So maybe we can breathe a sigh of relief.

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Heidi Campo: Yeah, Well, I actually pulled up the article,

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the scientific article itself, and I have it pulled up, and I was just

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browsing over it. and

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this really is fantastic because I do love reading

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the actual science as it's written by the

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scientists.

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And there is one thing that I'm seeing here that maybe you can

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clarify for me and our listeners. it looks like they use

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something and I'm going to butcher this name. Half of you are going to laugh at

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me, and the other half of you are going to go, I don't know. Sounded right to me.

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A fiducill

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Fidical. Fidical model.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, fiducial.

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Heidi Campo: Fiducial. I was not close at all.

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a fiducial model. So what is the difference between a fiducial

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model for predicting these,

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orbits or collision courses versus

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what, what else might be used?

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Professor Fred Watson: I'm just looking at, ah, the context. Are you

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reading that from the abstract?

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Heidi Campo: I'm reading that it's actually down under

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predicting. It's in the main body of the article under predicting

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the future.

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Professor Fred Watson: A fiducial model based on the most accurate values

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available. That's a really interesting term. I haven't heard that

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term, used in this context before. Usually,

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a fiducial is a, A kind of

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marker. You call it a fiducial mark,

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which is giving you a zero point.

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And maybe that's the context in which that's being

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used. But, Yeah,

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great question there, Heidi. I should look through

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the paper myself in more detail. I did have a quick

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look at the abstract. I don't usually get

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down into the detail, but, I don't know why they call

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it a fiducial model.

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Heidi Campo: That's, I think that's the dirty secret of so many

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scientists. It's like we, we, we are also guilty of

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reading the abstract and if it looks interesting, we'll

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read the methods and everything else. But yeah, it's,

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you know, unless you're a super nerd, we're

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not always reading the entire article. For

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me, if I'm reading science, I, I read the headline. Okay, is

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this even in my, Is this even in my

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wheelhouse of something I'm interested in or need to know more about?

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Then I'll read the abstract. If the abstract catches

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my attention, then I will actually

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jump ahead. I'll skip the intro and background because

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if it's something I know about, then I usually already know what they're talking

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about. And I'll go straight into the methods and I'll be

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like, okay, well what did they do to get their information? Then

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I'll jump ahead to their, results and

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I'll see, okay, you know, do their results make

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sense? And then I'll read their dissemination

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of those results to see if I agree with their

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conclusions.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, I've just been,

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Exactly. You've described the way I look at these things as

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well. I've just been googling a fiducial model.

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And as it says, fiducials are marks or points of

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reference applied to, well, in this case, images

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to present a fixed standard of reference.

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So that was kind of my

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assumption of what the word means. But a

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fiducial model gives you, obviously a fixed standard of

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reference to start from, which is tricky when you're talking

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about colliding galaxies, because which of them's

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moving? Well, they're both moving. So, you know, where's your reference

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point? Where is your stationary standard point?

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Heidi Campo: Yeah, and maybe this can be, you know, you know, and as

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scientists, we can say, okay, you know, this was published in a prestigious

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article, so we can assume that the

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methods were good enough to get published,

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because the process of getting published is already so

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rigorous. But this could be another point where

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we go and we're like, hey, you know, is that mathematical model

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something that you would agree with?

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The results, you know, is like you just said, is a fixed

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model really going to tell us what's moving?

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Well, what's not?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right.

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Heidi Campo: Take. This stuff's kind of interesting.

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Roger, your labs are here. Also space nuts.

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But, you know, fiducial models,

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mathematic algorithms and flying

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bananas is my next question, Because

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a flying banana is the topic of our next

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article. And this is going to be another thing I need you to

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define, because if I'm thinking of a flying banana,

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I'm thinking that somebody's kid at the

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grocery store is throwing a fit and they're throwing food.

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But in this article, we're talking about,

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aura chasers.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. Yes. So I'll, get to the flying banana

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in a minute

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because that's, kind of nickname.

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But, what I love about this story is

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it combines two passions of mine, one

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of which is the, aurora borealis, the

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northern light, which, we make regular trips up

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to the far northern Arctic to watch and take our tour

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guests up there to be awed by

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the aurora. We get southern lights down here, in the

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southern hemisphere as well, the aurora australis. Heidi. And

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there's actually been some quite good sightings recently of

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the aurora australis from southern Australia.

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we're not anywhere near far enough south

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to see the aurora overhead as you do from

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Alaska or far northern Scandinavia. but

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nevertheless, you can see the aurora. So that's one

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passion is the aurora. but, this is.

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It's a report that comes initially from

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fellow aurora hunters. And these are people

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in the United Kingdom, actually in Oxfordshire in England.

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and they were, you know, basically out on a

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clear night looking for, the northern lights, the aurora

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borealis. But what they saw was this

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strange blue beam of light sort of

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slicing through the night sky and

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apparently moving. and in fact

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these are sort of, you know, very high

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level aurora hunters because they've got an all sky camera,

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and fixed cameras that have captured this

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strange blue light moving through the sky.

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Excuse me. the reason why the. Well two

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things told them that it wasn't an aurora.

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One is that most aurorae aren't blue. the

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colors you get typically are

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green, and red which come from oxygen

283
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atoms. you get purples and

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magenta and a few other colors coming from

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nitrogen molecules. But a pure blue light

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is something that no you don't actually see.

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and so what they wondered

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was what is this? It's clearly not a

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natural national phenomenon. Sorry, a natural

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phenomenon because it's the wrong color and it's moving

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too quickly. So they did some

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they did some research, and

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it turns out that what they had seen

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was a very fat, a wide

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laser beam pointing upwards that

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came from the flying banana. And what

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is the flying banana? It's a railway

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train. and it's called that because it

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is yellow. It's very, very yellow

300
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indeed. The flying banana. its

301
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technical term is the nmt, the new measurement

302
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train. And what it does is at

303
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speeds of up to 125mph

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getting on for 200km an hour in our measure.

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it flies,

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runs over the track. Sorry about our little puppy in

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the background. I don't know whether you can hear him barking but he's

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excited about the Flying Banana as well.

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this train runs over the track 125

310
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miles an hour with lasers pointing downwards

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to analyze in real time the

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state of the track. So it's all about the safety of

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railway passengers in the UK and what it's doing

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is it's analyzing things like the separation

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of the rails, whether something's moved

316
00:15:03.670 --> 00:15:06.670
in the foundations of the rails, the sleepers or ties as you

317
00:15:06.670 --> 00:15:09.540
call them in the US that hold them together, whether the

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rails themselves are distorted. They can check

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the shape of the rails, they can check all sorts of

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aspects of it at a very high speed. But,

321
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and this is the trick, it also

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checks the overhead electrical wiring

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because railways in Britain, many of them certainly the

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main lines are driven by electric

325
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traction. So they've got what's called the overhead,

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the overhead wire which is picked up, from which the

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electricity is picked up by the trains. So

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as I understand it, it, this laser

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is also looking upwards to sense what the

330
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condition of the Overhead wire is hence the

331
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blue light traveling through the landscape.

332
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and, just before, Sorry, I'm not letting you

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get many words in here, Heidi, but.

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Heidi Campo: No, I'm listening. This is wonderful.

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00:15:58.310 --> 00:16:01.040
Professor Fred Watson: Well, to, bring back an experience

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00:16:01.200 --> 00:16:03.760
we had. So back in January this year,

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some of our listeners know, I think, you know, Marnie and I

338
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were doing one of our, Aurora Borealis tours up in

339
00:16:09.840 --> 00:16:12.240
the far north of the world. We were in

340
00:16:13.040 --> 00:16:15.520
northern Norway, Scandinavia, sorry, Norway,

341
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Sweden, Iceland and eventually

342
00:16:18.080 --> 00:16:20.960
Greenland, which was enchanting. But,

343
00:16:20.910 --> 00:16:23.800
that's not why I'm mentioning it. in a place

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called Abisko, which is in far northern

345
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Sweden, one night we were aurora watching

346
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and we saw this vertical

347
00:16:32.750 --> 00:16:35.180
green beam of light, which

348
00:16:35.799 --> 00:16:38.369
puzzled me completely. it was

349
00:16:38.529 --> 00:16:41.529
just pointing upwards. It was apparently stationary. It did

350
00:16:41.529 --> 00:16:44.089
not last very long. I had my trusty

351
00:16:44.089 --> 00:16:46.899
Aurora camera, ready to take photographs, but it had

352
00:16:46.899 --> 00:16:49.869
gone before, I had a chance

353
00:16:49.869 --> 00:16:52.519
to take any. but I'm guessing now

354
00:16:52.999 --> 00:16:55.639
that that was the same sort of thing

355
00:16:55.719 --> 00:16:58.479
because Abisco is on the main

356
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line between. The main railway line between,

357
00:17:01.790 --> 00:17:04.650
Kiruna, and Narvik. It was buil

358
00:17:04.801 --> 00:17:07.771
built, more than a century ago to

359
00:17:07.771 --> 00:17:10.611
carry iron ore from the big mine, which is still

360
00:17:10.611 --> 00:17:13.531
operational in Kiruna, to the port in Narvik,

361
00:17:13.761 --> 00:17:16.361
where it's exported all over the world to your country and

362
00:17:16.361 --> 00:17:19.350
mine, it's one of the biggest producers of iron

363
00:17:19.350 --> 00:17:22.311
ore in the world. And so that railway line

364
00:17:22.631 --> 00:17:25.271
has been there for a long time. And my guess

365
00:17:25.271 --> 00:17:27.991
is that maybe there is an equivalent in

366
00:17:27.991 --> 00:17:30.231
Sweden of the Flying Banana,

367
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which shines a green, laser beam up at

368
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the overhead wires to see, what the

369
00:17:36.191 --> 00:17:38.511
condition is. And so I'm putting out to our

370
00:17:38.511 --> 00:17:41.481
Scandinavian listeners, on space nuts, because I know a lot of

371
00:17:41.481 --> 00:17:44.441
them are railway buffs as well. Tell us if there

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is such a thing as a new measurement

373
00:17:47.041 --> 00:17:49.521
train in Scandinavia that looks at the

374
00:17:49.521 --> 00:17:52.391
overhead, catenaries or, ah, the overhead, power

375
00:17:52.391 --> 00:17:55.311
lines for trains. So we look

376
00:17:55.311 --> 00:17:57.071
forward to hearing your answers, folks.

377
00:17:57.791 --> 00:18:00.591
Heidi Campo: Yeah, and that's, you know, and that's just such a fun story. And it makes

378
00:18:00.591 --> 00:18:02.511
me, you know, cause trains,

379
00:18:03.821 --> 00:18:06.711
trains are such, an incredible

380
00:18:06.711 --> 00:18:09.071
feat of engineering that changed the world.

381
00:18:09.631 --> 00:18:11.711
I think trains accelerated

382
00:18:12.671 --> 00:18:15.431
expansion and growth more than almost anything

383
00:18:15.431 --> 00:18:18.191
else. And I'm sure you and most of the listeners know

384
00:18:18.510 --> 00:18:21.071
the correlation between rocket ships and

385
00:18:21.311 --> 00:18:21.871
trains.

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00:18:23.251 --> 00:18:25.961
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, tell me what you're thinking of.

387
00:18:25.961 --> 00:18:28.121
Heidi Campo: Okay, so,

388
00:18:30.311 --> 00:18:33.061
now I might be butchering this here because I Think it's, something

389
00:18:33.061 --> 00:18:35.901
about the rockets. The

390
00:18:35.901 --> 00:18:38.541
size of them is a certain size.

391
00:18:38.621 --> 00:18:41.101
And that size is

392
00:18:41.101 --> 00:18:43.941
determined because of the standard size

393
00:18:43.941 --> 00:18:46.941
of. See, what is it? What is it? Because I know you probably have it

394
00:18:46.941 --> 00:18:47.821
down to the figures.

395
00:18:48.221 --> 00:18:51.181
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. So you're absolutely right. It's

396
00:18:51.181 --> 00:18:54.091
railway lines and railway tunnels, that dictate the

397
00:18:54.091 --> 00:18:57.081
size of things. I don't know the exact

398
00:18:57.081 --> 00:18:59.981
thing that you're talking about, but limited. All

399
00:18:59.981 --> 00:19:02.941
sorts of weird things like the size of the biggest telescope mirror

400
00:19:02.941 --> 00:19:05.941
that you can take from one place to another is limited by

401
00:19:05.941 --> 00:19:08.861
the size of the track, the railway tunnels that carry them

402
00:19:08.861 --> 00:19:11.861
around. It might well be something similar that you're thinking of

403
00:19:11.861 --> 00:19:12.901
in terms of rockets.

404
00:19:12.951 --> 00:19:15.911
Heidi Campo: And if you keep going back far enough. The size of

405
00:19:15.911 --> 00:19:18.591
the railroad was determined by the

406
00:19:18.591 --> 00:19:21.471
average size of two horses side

407
00:19:21.471 --> 00:19:24.471
by side. So the joke is two horses

408
00:19:24.471 --> 00:19:27.471
asses is what determines the size of

409
00:19:27.471 --> 00:19:30.231
our rockets in space today. And

410
00:19:30.231 --> 00:19:33.131
trains, which is just such a funny

411
00:19:33.131 --> 00:19:35.731
little thing to think of. And just again,

412
00:19:35.731 --> 00:19:38.571
amazing feats of engineering and there's nothing new

413
00:19:38.571 --> 00:19:41.391
that's ever built. We're always just building and expanding on, the

414
00:19:41.391 --> 00:19:43.831
prior knowledge we already have. So hopefully our

415
00:19:43.831 --> 00:19:46.031
ancestors have done pretty good work.

416
00:19:48.511 --> 00:19:49.031
Professor Fred Watson: Okay.

417
00:19:49.031 --> 00:19:50.951
Andrew Dunkley: We checked all four systems and being.

418
00:19:50.951 --> 00:19:53.391
Heidi Campo: With a girl, space nets, and

419
00:19:53.471 --> 00:19:56.391
sometimes, you know, things are, are

420
00:19:56.551 --> 00:19:59.471
unsuccessful. You know, we have amazing things, we have

421
00:19:59.471 --> 00:20:02.311
things that fall apart. And there was,

422
00:20:02.511 --> 00:20:05.471
you know, that's the case of what happened with the Japanese

423
00:20:06.031 --> 00:20:08.991
company abandoning, their moon

424
00:20:08.991 --> 00:20:11.911
mission. So tell us what happened with that. Just kind of been

425
00:20:11.911 --> 00:20:12.351
a blur.

426
00:20:13.391 --> 00:20:16.231
Professor Fred Watson: Lovely segue there, Heidi. I love your segues. From

427
00:20:16.231 --> 00:20:17.151
one story to another.

428
00:20:19.311 --> 00:20:22.311
And you're right, this is an endeavor which,

429
00:20:22.821 --> 00:20:25.621
you know, again, is being carried out with the highest

430
00:20:25.621 --> 00:20:27.781
levels of technical knowledge, with the highest

431
00:20:28.101 --> 00:20:30.861
enthusiasm, and all the skill, that has

432
00:20:30.861 --> 00:20:33.621
been learned from, well, more than 50

433
00:20:33.621 --> 00:20:36.621
years now of space travel in terms of robotic

434
00:20:36.621 --> 00:20:39.561
spacecraft, as Newton said, standing on the

435
00:20:39.561 --> 00:20:42.481
shoulders of giants. I think every, every one of us is doing that

436
00:20:42.481 --> 00:20:45.111
one way or another in the technology that we make use of.

437
00:20:46.301 --> 00:20:49.291
So, in fact, some of that technology is just going past my

438
00:20:49.291 --> 00:20:52.201
office door at the moment. that's called Grimace. Grimace

439
00:20:52.201 --> 00:20:54.401
is our robotic vacuum cleaner.

440
00:20:55.121 --> 00:20:58.061
And Grimace makes a lot of noise. So if you hear a, whining

441
00:20:58.061 --> 00:21:00.181
sound, it's not me, it's our vacuum cleaner.

442
00:21:00.341 --> 00:21:03.251
Heidi Campo: I named my robotic vacuum, Rosie

443
00:21:03.251 --> 00:21:04.291
after the Jetsons.

444
00:21:04.771 --> 00:21:06.371
Professor Fred Watson: Okay, good, that's great.

445
00:21:07.171 --> 00:21:08.611
Heidi Campo: Robotic made was Rosie.

446
00:21:09.091 --> 00:21:12.091
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, yeah, you've got to give them names. Ours is called Grimace

447
00:21:12.091 --> 00:21:15.091
because A grimace is the expression on its face. It

448
00:21:15.091 --> 00:21:17.991
doesn't have a face, but it just looks as though it's, you

449
00:21:17.991 --> 00:21:20.191
know, it's got a very stern expression.

450
00:21:20.191 --> 00:21:23.151
Anyway, turning back to the Japanese company

451
00:21:23.391 --> 00:21:26.121
Ispace, they have. And as

452
00:21:26.121 --> 00:21:28.801
you've said, it doesn't always work. and

453
00:21:29.041 --> 00:21:31.921
in this case, this does not. This has not

454
00:21:31.921 --> 00:21:34.151
worked. what they have done is,

455
00:21:34.791 --> 00:21:37.501
sent to the moon, basically, a

456
00:21:37.501 --> 00:21:39.701
lunar lander which

457
00:21:40.021 --> 00:21:42.981
indeed had on board a rover,

458
00:21:42.981 --> 00:21:45.961
a little rover. The lander,

459
00:21:45.961 --> 00:21:48.001
if I remember rightly, is called Resilience.

460
00:21:48.701 --> 00:21:51.631
and the rover had a name too, which you can't remember, but it's something

461
00:21:51.631 --> 00:21:54.431
similar. so the idea of, this

462
00:21:54.431 --> 00:21:56.991
company is to be one of the first,

463
00:21:57.811 --> 00:22:00.581
companies in the world to

464
00:22:00.581 --> 00:22:03.301
achieve a landing, a soft landing on the

465
00:22:03.301 --> 00:22:06.061
moon. And it would certainly have been the first one to

466
00:22:06.061 --> 00:22:08.621
have the first private company to have a rover on them

467
00:22:08.771 --> 00:22:11.591
moon. sadly, the mission was not

468
00:22:11.591 --> 00:22:14.361
successful. This was last week, as we are recording

469
00:22:14.361 --> 00:22:17.281
this episode now. everything went

470
00:22:17.361 --> 00:22:20.121
perfectly well with, Resilience, until it

471
00:22:20.121 --> 00:22:22.961
got close to the lunar surface. And then there was a

472
00:22:22.961 --> 00:22:25.521
technical fault that meant that it didn't

473
00:22:26.071 --> 00:22:28.841
decelerate quickly enough, for it to make a

474
00:22:28.841 --> 00:22:31.841
soft landing. So it actually, basically

475
00:22:31.841 --> 00:22:34.841
had a hard landing on the moon, which we usually call a collision.

476
00:22:35.231 --> 00:22:37.701
and that, was the end of the mission.

477
00:22:37.871 --> 00:22:40.271
they're very enthusiastic though, about

478
00:22:41.071 --> 00:22:43.561
keeping going with their, endeavors.

479
00:22:43.961 --> 00:22:46.961
Unfortunately, it's their second failure. I think a couple of years

480
00:22:46.961 --> 00:22:49.931
ago they had another mission, landing on the

481
00:22:49.931 --> 00:22:52.791
moon, which did not, make it. It

482
00:22:52.791 --> 00:22:55.741
landed, but sort of fell over. It was, at the wrong

483
00:22:55.741 --> 00:22:58.631
angle, so didn't get, any kind

484
00:22:58.631 --> 00:23:01.631
of sunlight on its solar panels. I think I'm thinking of the right

485
00:23:01.631 --> 00:23:04.441
one there. And by the way, the rover rover

486
00:23:04.441 --> 00:23:06.611
was called Tenacious, built in

487
00:23:06.611 --> 00:23:09.121
Luxembourg in fact, but carried,

488
00:23:09.541 --> 00:23:12.341
some equipment on board. Sadly, that was never deployed.

489
00:23:12.581 --> 00:23:15.341
So, you know, a story that's

490
00:23:15.341 --> 00:23:18.261
got good parts to it because I'm sure they learned a

491
00:23:18.261 --> 00:23:21.221
lot from this mission, but not as successful

492
00:23:21.221 --> 00:23:22.501
as everybody had hoped.

493
00:23:23.221 --> 00:23:26.101
Heidi Campo: I always have a little soft spot for the rovers. Ever since

494
00:23:26.101 --> 00:23:28.971
they had, the Mars rover sing Happy

495
00:23:28.971 --> 00:23:31.531
Birthday to itself. I've always kind of

496
00:23:31.531 --> 00:23:34.451
humanized them ever since that. I don't know why I'm like, oh, poor

497
00:23:34.451 --> 00:23:37.191
rover. Maybe it was Pixar's Wall E that

498
00:23:37.191 --> 00:23:40.121
gave me a soft spot for these, robots. Good old

499
00:23:40.121 --> 00:23:42.411
Wall E. But, you know, here's another segue for you.

500
00:23:42.411 --> 00:23:44.841
Speaking of Mars rovers, the Mars

501
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Orbiter capture. This is our final

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00:23:47.641 --> 00:23:50.161
story for today, but the NASA Mars Orbiter

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saw some pretty cool

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sites. You want to tell us a little bit about these

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00:23:56.661 --> 00:23:57.581
volcanoes?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. So this is

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it's a piece of history almost. This is one of the

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longest running

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00:24:06.711 --> 00:24:09.541
orbiters around Mars. I think

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00:24:09.541 --> 00:24:12.341
it's been in orbit since 2001 or it

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00:24:12.341 --> 00:24:15.101
certainly was launched in 2001. And it is

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called Mars Odyssey. it's a NASA

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00:24:17.981 --> 00:24:20.391
spacecraft, one of several in orbit around

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Mars. but this is quite a venerable one.

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00:24:23.291 --> 00:24:26.251
It's been around for a long time but it's still active and

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00:24:26.251 --> 00:24:29.231
it's still doing the kind of research that it

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00:24:29.231 --> 00:24:32.081
was basically built to do. looking at the

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upper atmosphere of Mars and

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00:24:34.551 --> 00:24:37.111
basically you know, studying the surface.

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the reason why it's made the headlines this week

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is because it captured

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00:24:43.591 --> 00:24:46.041
a beautiful view of one of

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Mars's tall volcanoes.

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00:24:48.641 --> 00:24:51.401
Mars has ah, an area called the

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Tarsus Rise. It's a high level or Tarsis

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00:24:54.321 --> 00:24:57.231
Montesquieu, the Tharsis Mountains. it's

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00:24:57.231 --> 00:25:00.061
a high level region which has ah,

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00:25:00.071 --> 00:25:02.311
four really prominent

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00:25:02.391 --> 00:25:05.271
volcanoes on it. They are extinct. They probably have

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00:25:05.271 --> 00:25:07.751
not erupted for 3 billion years or so.

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they're taller than most volcanoes on Earth, 20

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00:25:10.941 --> 00:25:13.711
kilometers or so. the biggest is Olympus

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00:25:13.711 --> 00:25:16.431
Mons, very famous, the largest mountain in the

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00:25:16.431 --> 00:25:19.201
solar system. but what they've captured with

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00:25:19.201 --> 00:25:22.121
the Odyssey spacecraft is a view

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00:25:22.121 --> 00:25:25.041
of Mars in the early morning. It's in

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00:25:25.041 --> 00:25:27.951
the dawn sky and sorry, the

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00:25:27.951 --> 00:25:30.591
dawn landscape. but the surface of

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00:25:30.591 --> 00:25:33.511
Mars is covered with cloud. Now

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00:25:34.311 --> 00:25:37.311
Mars does have clouds. They are fairly thin clouds

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00:25:37.311 --> 00:25:38.951
because its atmospheric pressure is only

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00:25:39.351 --> 00:25:42.351
0.6% of the atmospheric pressure

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00:25:42.351 --> 00:25:45.231
on Earth. And there is very little moisture

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00:25:45.231 --> 00:25:48.231
in the atmosphere. There is some, there's enough to form clouds

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00:25:48.231 --> 00:25:50.471
and they're made of ice, basically water ice.

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00:25:51.201 --> 00:25:54.001
so there's enough just to form these. But here's this wonderful

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00:25:54.001 --> 00:25:56.881
view. Encourage people to look at

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00:25:57.221 --> 00:25:59.791
one of the NASA websites. Actually it's the main

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00:25:59.791 --> 00:26:02.681
NASA website actually NASA.gov if you

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00:26:02.671 --> 00:26:05.461
Google NASA Mars Orbiter captures

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00:26:05.461 --> 00:26:08.421
volcano peaking above morning cloud tops that's exactly

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00:26:08.421 --> 00:26:11.401
what you see. this is Asia Mons

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00:26:11.401 --> 00:26:14.371
which is one of the other four volcanoes in that region.

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00:26:14.371 --> 00:26:16.891
And you can see its crater, its

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00:26:16.901 --> 00:26:19.731
caldera, the summit of the mountain, poking

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00:26:19.731 --> 00:26:22.731
above the low clouds on the surface of Mars. It's

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00:26:22.731 --> 00:26:25.651
an extraordinary view. It's one that we've not seen before. And

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00:26:25.651 --> 00:26:28.591
it was, made because the mission scientists managed

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00:26:28.591 --> 00:26:31.351
to turn Mars Odyssey on its side so it could look

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00:26:31.351 --> 00:26:34.271
horizontally at the landscape rather than looking vertically

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00:26:34.351 --> 00:26:36.671
downwards on the surface of Mars.

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00:26:37.151 --> 00:26:39.981
Heidi Campo: Yeah, this is a great photo. That's, one of those ones that's going to

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00:26:39.981 --> 00:26:42.381
be hanging up in, someone's office,

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00:26:43.551 --> 00:26:46.391
one day or a school, you know, in a science building.

565
00:26:46.391 --> 00:26:49.071
I mean, that really is a really neat photo. Like you said.

566
00:26:49.931 --> 00:26:51.361
I mean, what,

567
00:26:52.331 --> 00:26:54.961
ah, crazy, ah, series of

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00:26:54.961 --> 00:26:57.641
stories today from the things that we've

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00:26:57.641 --> 00:26:59.841
discovered and the technology and

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00:27:00.641 --> 00:27:03.391
everything that humans, have done and they're still

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00:27:03.391 --> 00:27:06.321
doing. it's really. And I think

572
00:27:06.321 --> 00:27:08.881
that's one reason why we're space

573
00:27:08.881 --> 00:27:11.761
nuts here. I mean, all of us here get so excited

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00:27:11.761 --> 00:27:14.561
about space because there's, I think for the

575
00:27:14.561 --> 00:27:17.361
people who are space enthusiasts, it's because there's

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00:27:17.361 --> 00:27:20.141
still so much to do and so

577
00:27:20.141 --> 00:27:21.821
many other, fields of

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00:27:23.501 --> 00:27:26.061
anything. There's so much that's already been explained and

579
00:27:26.061 --> 00:27:28.941
discovered. We're not discovering any new laws of physics

580
00:27:28.941 --> 00:27:31.661
anymore. That's kind of those are written,

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00:27:32.171 --> 00:27:34.891
but in space it's wide open and we're always

582
00:27:34.891 --> 00:27:37.811
coming up with new mathematical formulas

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00:27:37.811 --> 00:27:40.491
and feats of engineering and discovery.

584
00:27:41.691 --> 00:27:43.931
We have our highs, we have our lows. But

585
00:27:45.311 --> 00:27:48.231
it's so exciting for the people who are still

586
00:27:48.231 --> 00:27:51.151
curious and want to know more about

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00:27:51.711 --> 00:27:53.311
the universe we live in.

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00:27:54.751 --> 00:27:57.181
Professor Fred Watson: Isn't it just. And, you know, I guess that

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00:27:57.181 --> 00:28:00.101
curiosity is one of the things that drives the million or so

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00:28:00.101 --> 00:28:02.941
downloads a year that we get of space nuts. Because

591
00:28:02.941 --> 00:28:05.941
we've got people out there who love to hear about this sort of thing just as

592
00:28:05.941 --> 00:28:08.861
we love talking about it. Everything from flying

593
00:28:08.861 --> 00:28:10.621
bananas to colliding galaxies.

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00:28:10.621 --> 00:28:13.521
Heidi Campo: We do everything and we

595
00:28:13.521 --> 00:28:16.441
just want to, you know, I guess we'll just say thank you to our listeners. Thank you for

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00:28:16.441 --> 00:28:19.261
making, this, this a show worth recording. We

597
00:28:19.261 --> 00:28:22.261
really do appreciate you guys. And thank you for letting me come on

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00:28:22.261 --> 00:28:25.141
as your substitute host while Andrew

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00:28:25.141 --> 00:28:27.951
is on holiday. he will be back with

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00:28:27.951 --> 00:28:30.791
you in a few weeks, so don't you

601
00:28:30.791 --> 00:28:33.751
worry. If you guys are missing him dearly, he will be back. I am

602
00:28:33.751 --> 00:28:36.501
just filling in for now, but, Go ahead,

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00:28:36.501 --> 00:28:36.861
Peter.

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00:28:37.101 --> 00:28:40.021
Professor Fred Watson: Let me just add, forgive me, I

605
00:28:40.021 --> 00:28:42.541
think our producer Huw might well,

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00:28:42.871 --> 00:28:45.461
include in this podcast, a little

607
00:28:45.461 --> 00:28:47.861
recording that Andrew has sent on his progress

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00:28:48.181 --> 00:28:51.111
around the world. So, listen on, folks. You might

609
00:28:51.111 --> 00:28:53.841
well hear, Andrew's voice telling us where

610
00:28:53.841 --> 00:28:56.161
he's Got to on his round the world trip.

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00:28:56.401 --> 00:28:58.961
Andrew Dunkley: Hi Heidi. Hi Fred. Hi Huw in the studio,

612
00:28:59.121 --> 00:28:59.921
it's Andrew.

613
00:29:00.031 --> 00:29:02.831
we've embarked on our around the world trip

614
00:29:02.831 --> 00:29:05.521
on the Crown Princess. we left

615
00:29:05.521 --> 00:29:08.401
Sydney a couple of days ago and we got out

616
00:29:08.401 --> 00:29:11.361
of the heads and it was rough as guts. I

617
00:29:11.361 --> 00:29:14.091
mean it was heavy seas. the

618
00:29:14.091 --> 00:29:17.051
pilot couldn't even get off the ship and we

619
00:29:17.051 --> 00:29:19.971
had to drop him off at Eden down near the Victoria border,

620
00:29:20.161 --> 00:29:23.091
yesterday. So yeah, things calmed down a bit after

621
00:29:23.091 --> 00:29:25.611
that. But it was a pretty rough on first night.

622
00:29:26.261 --> 00:29:28.981
last night we slept quite well. It was very, very calm.

623
00:29:29.151 --> 00:29:32.061
we went through Bass Strait. I was very hopeful

624
00:29:32.061 --> 00:29:34.861
that we'd be able to see Aurora Austral Australis.

625
00:29:34.861 --> 00:29:37.381
There's been a fair bit of sun activity lately and I

626
00:29:38.101 --> 00:29:40.951
was very hopeful. There'd been a bit about it in the news recently

627
00:29:41.111 --> 00:29:43.821
but unfortunately we've

628
00:29:43.901 --> 00:29:46.901
not seen anything and in fact they're not letting us up on

629
00:29:46.901 --> 00:29:49.611
the the decks at the moment because, because of the

630
00:29:49.851 --> 00:29:52.611
conditions which are deteriorating

631
00:29:52.611 --> 00:29:55.221
again as we approach Spencer Gulf

632
00:29:55.221 --> 00:29:57.981
and head to Adelaide. So we'll be dropping off at

633
00:29:57.981 --> 00:30:00.771
Adelaide tomorrow and visiting the German town

634
00:30:00.771 --> 00:30:03.740
of Haendorf. activities on board have been

635
00:30:03.740 --> 00:30:06.711
fun. it's a fun crowd, a fun crew. We're having

636
00:30:06.711 --> 00:30:09.191
a good time. Yes, I got seasick once.

637
00:30:09.671 --> 00:30:12.431
We ordered breakfast and then cancelled it, then ordered

638
00:30:12.431 --> 00:30:14.871
again and got three breakfasts.

639
00:30:15.911 --> 00:30:18.811
So there's you know, you know, a few glitches here and

640
00:30:18.811 --> 00:30:21.611
there. But we're having a great time. I hope all is

641
00:30:21.611 --> 00:30:24.331
going well. I'll report in semi regularly as we,

642
00:30:24.411 --> 00:30:27.051
as we do things around the ship and around the world.

643
00:30:27.611 --> 00:30:30.411
So for now I'll see you later and

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00:30:30.891 --> 00:30:33.051
have fun with Space Nuts while I'm away.

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00:30:33.531 --> 00:30:36.331
Heidi Campo: So fun. Thank you Fred. Talk to you next week.

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00:30:36.411 --> 00:30:39.111
Professor Fred Watson: It's a great pleasure Heidi. Thanks very much. Space Nuts.

647
00:30:39.411 --> 00:30:42.251
you'll be listening to the SpaceNuts podcast

648
00:30:42.331 --> 00:30:45.001
Missing Point, available at Apple

649
00:30:45.001 --> 00:30:45.801
Podcasts.

650
00:30:45.881 --> 00:30:48.441
Andrew Dunkley: Spotify, iHeartRadio or your

651
00:30:48.441 --> 00:30:49.881
favorite podcast player.

652
00:30:49.961 --> 00:30:52.921
Professor Fred Watson: You can also stream on demand@bytes.com

653
00:30:53.241 --> 00:30:53.521
this.

654
00:30:53.521 --> 00:30:56.281
Andrew Dunkley: Has been another quality podcast production from

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00:30:56.281 --> 00:30:57.401
bytes.um com.