Full Moon Myths, Space Curvature & The Simulation Debate

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Professor Fred Watson: Hi there.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thanks for joining us on Space Nuts, a Q and

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A edition. This is where the audience sends

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questions in. Sometimes they send us

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homework, sometimes they send us in a

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request. We've got a bit of all that today

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and we're going to, uh, hear about the full

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moon effects, or not. Uh,

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curved space, light speed, uh,

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in terms of detecting somebody who's in

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a spacecraft doing light speed. Can we do

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that? Could we?

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Andrew Dunkley: And are we living in a simulation of the

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universe? Those questions will be answered

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possibly today on this edition of

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space nuts.

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Voice Over Guy: 15 seconds. Guidance is internal.

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sequence start. Space nuts. 5, 4, 3,

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report. It feels good.

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Andrew Dunkley: And, uh, joining us to sort all of that

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out, maybe, maybe not, it's Professor

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Fred Watson Watson, Astronomer at large. Hi,

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Fred.

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Professor Fred Watson: Hello, Andrew. Here I am back again.

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Andrew Dunkley: Good to see you. Good to see you. Yes,

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yes, indeed.

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Uh, I suppose we should start with, uh,

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not so much a question, but a request for

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clarification on something that was, uh,

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spoken about in an earlier episode.

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Uh, and this comes from Peter and he's, uh,

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in the Adelaide Hills, uh, down in South

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Australia. Hi, Space Nuts. Love your show,

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but I'm afraid I have to call out some pseudo

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science that Heidi propagated in the most

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recent episode about the full moon. With,

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surprisingly, no pushback from Fred Watson.

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You're both in trouble, both of you. Uh,

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uh, some animals are affected by the cycles

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of the moon and there is huge anecdotal

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evidence by police, nurses, et cetera, about

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increased activity during a full moon. But

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science relies on data, not anecdotes. And

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several large studies and meta analyses

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have shown that the full moon effect is not

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real. The data of these organisations shows

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no increased activity during a full moon. I

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think this should be corrected on air so as

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not to mislead your. Well, he says viewers,

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listeners, both. We've got both. There are

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already enough mythical, um, beliefs out

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there. Thanks. Path Peter from Adelaide

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Hills. Before you respond to that,

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Fred Watson, I might say, and this is

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anecdotal, that, uh, when I started

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in radio, I did five years of midnight to

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dawns, uh, working from midnight till 5,

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midnight till 6, 1 till 5, all sorts of

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weird overnight hours. And I can tell

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you without, without a shadow of a doubt

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if there was a full moon. It

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got really weird. I got the

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strangest phone calls from the strangest

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people and it happened without fail.

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And, uh, I mean, it didn't just happen on

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full moons, but it happened a lot more

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whenever there was Going to be a full moon

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and I was on air, I'd go, oh, no, no,

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not tonight, please. But it's

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true. I don't know why, but it just,

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um. And it's not me perceiving that because

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never think about it any other night, but it

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just happened much more

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significantly, I suppose, with strange, uh,

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phone calls and, and weirdisms. But it's

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anecdotal. Yes, that bit.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. And Peter's right,

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absolutely right, that, um, the statistics

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don't bear it out. Uh, the reason that

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didn't crop up in the particular show was, if

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I remember rightly, it was right at the end,

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uh, and Heidi was sort of finishing

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on a high note. It might even have been at

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the end of Heidi's last show. And I

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didn't really want to say, well, you're wrong

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there. Because, uh,

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not that I'd ever say that of course, but

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yes, I know, I know that the statistics don't

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bear it out. I suspect, um,

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what increases perhaps the

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visibility of things like that is just the

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fact that you can see more. Yeah, the fact

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that the sky is bright during full moon. And

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so we do get this impression that

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all hell breaks loose. I know you talk to

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nurses, they always say the same thing. Uh,

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and um, yeah, teachers say that kids are

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all strappy at full moon. That might be

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because they don't sleep as well. And maybe

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that's part of the problem that people, if

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they sleep with their curtains open or they

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don't have proper blockout curtains, they're

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going to get a poor night's sleep because

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it's so bright out there, the full moon.

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Andrew Dunkley: It could be as simple as that, Fred Watson.

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Could absolutely be as simple as that. Having

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experienced. And you have done this too, um,

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24 hour daylight.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: I can understand how it would interfere with

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your normal sleep patterns. In fact, uh,

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while we were on the, on the ship recently up

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in the Arctic Circle in, in the northern

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summer, people did complain about poor

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sleep simply because they had window

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cabins. And it was bright

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all the time, 24 hours a day, not, not

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glowingly bright. I mean, it got

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down to sort of twilight levels at some

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stages, but it was never dark

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and that. Yeah, a few of us

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who weren't used to it

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certainly felt the, felt the effect. Uh, we

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had an interior cabin by, by choice because

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we knew we, we'd be up there for this. So,

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um, we, we didn't have any trouble sleeping

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because we blacked out. But, um, um,

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but yeah, if you had a window cabin or a

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Balcony cabin or something. Yeah, it was, it

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was a different story. Um, um. But yeah, I,

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and I. And I also wonder if it's

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just, um, you know, in my experience with

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overnight radio and the weird phone calls I

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used to get on full moons, if it was an

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effect of people just thinking, oh, it's a

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full moon, let's just be

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galoots and carry on like pork chops,

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you know, maybe let's

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pretend.

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Professor Fred Watson: Let's pretend that we're all going lunatics.

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Andrew Dunkley: Dark ravens.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's where the word comes from.

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Andrew Dunkley: That's true, yes.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

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Andrew Dunkley: Uh, although that, that suggests that this is

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not a new phenomenon either.

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Professor Fred Watson: Exactly. That's right.

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Andrew Dunkley: So, um, yes, you'd

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need a lot of evidence to back up claims that

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the moon does cause certain

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ill effects in the, in the human psyche.

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But, um, studies prove otherwise.

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But yeah, he's right about the animals. I

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mean, they live. Just about everything

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on Earth's affected by the, um, by the moon

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in some way or another.

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Professor Fred Watson: Humans are too. Um, not denying that there's

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monthly cycles in human physiology.

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So.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, absolutely. So, yes, um,

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debunked, Peter.

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Professor Fred Watson: So well spotted though, Peter. Um,

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it's good to have an opportunity to talk

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about it again, for sure.

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Andrew Dunkley: Thanks, Peter. Hope you're well.

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Um. When we were in Adelaide Hills, uh, which

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would have been in June, a couple of weeks

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after we got on board the ship, the weather

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was dreadful. And,

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uh, we went up to Matt Lofty to see the

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beautiful view. We saw a fence and then you

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couldn't see anything beyond it because it

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was so cloudy and windy and wet.

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Actually, I should point out when we got back

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on the ship, we couldn't leave that night

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because the seas were so bad. So they kept us

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in Adelaide overnight and we left the next

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morning and the seas were pretty rough.

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Uh, just trying to get up around the west

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Australian coast from Adelaide. And as we

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were about to make the turn north,

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we got hit by a massive squall.

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And Judy and I were at lunch and it hit the

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ship. Like something hit the ship

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and knocked us over on a seven degree

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tilt.

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Professor Fred Watson: Wow.

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Andrew Dunkley: And we couldn't straighten up. Took a few

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hours to straighten the ship up. They

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couldn't get the ballast right. And, yeah,

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things went flying everywhere. We were were

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having lunch and glasses and cutlery and

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plates and food and wine and, uh. Oh, the

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beer, the beer went everywhere. Um, and it

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happened over the entire ship. I don't know

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how much stuff they lost that got smashed,

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but, um, yeah, it was a heck of a bang.

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So, um.

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Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

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Andrew Dunkley: I'm going to have to go back to Adelaide and

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see it in nice weather. Point I was trying to

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make. Thanks, Peter.

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Uh, let's go to our next question. Hey,

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Andrew and Fred Watson love the show. Been

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listening for years. Uh, I've had this idea

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bouncing around for a while about how space

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is curved and what that might mean. I

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haven't found much that explains why it's a

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bad idea. So I figured I'd ask you,

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uh, if matter curves spacetime in a negative

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way and the universe is overall flat,

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wouldn't that mean the voids have to curve

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space time in a positive way to balance it

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out? And if that's true, could the curvature

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of void space act like a, uh, kind of

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pressure that helps hold galaxies together,

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maybe even removing the need for dark matter?

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Also, if time flows differently in the

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void because of the curvature, could that

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help explain things like the Hubble tension?

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Curious to hear why this doesn't work. Uh,

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Rob from the central coast. Uh, I'm assuming

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central coast, New South Wales, because

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there's a central coast in Queensland as

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well. Um, my only

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question about his question is he talks about

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the, uh, universe being flat. I would

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have suggested it's actually a sphere.

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Wouldn't. Wouldn't you say so?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, flat. Flatness is,

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um, it is a misleading

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term because, uh, it refers

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to, uh, the fact that

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Euclidean geometry works. In other words, you

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know, angles of a triangle add up to 180

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degrees and all of that stuff. Parallel lines

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never meet. Yeah, um, that's, uh,

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what the term flat means. Uh, and curvature

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is. Yes, the

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opposite of flatness, um, on

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large scales, but yes. Uh, exactly as it's

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Rob, isn't it? Exactly as Rob says.

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The universe is thought to be very

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nearly flat. And so,

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um, there is curvature that's put into it

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by matter, exactly as he says. But it kind

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of, it does sort of even out. And, um,

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his comment about if, if there's

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positive gravity in the voids,

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uh, could that explain the

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phenomenon of dark matter clumping around

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galaxies? Um, the trouble is there aren't

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really any galaxies in the voids, which is

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why they're called voids, because there

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no galaxies there. They're pretty empty.

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Um, um, but I don't think even if

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you stuck a galaxy in one of these voids,

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I don't think the curvature of the

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space will be enough to mimic the

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phenomena of dark matter. I think it will be

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too, too weak.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. And lots of people are trying to

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disprove dark matter, aren't they?

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Professor Fred Watson: Yeah. I mean it's great that

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they are, uh, one. One of them's a

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space nuts listener. Peter Verwein, I don't

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know. They're still doing his PhD on um,

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Mond, um, modified Newtonian dynamics.

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But he certainly was last time we spoke.

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Yeah.

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Andrew Dunkley: Hopefully, um, they'll figure it out one day

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because it is one of the great mysteries, uh,

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dark matter, dark energy, um,

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as we talked about in the last episode,

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wormholes, multiple universe theory.

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There's quite a few, um, big

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issues if you like, uh, being debated

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and theories being put forward, but uh, no

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answers yet. Uh, although

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the science seems to very heavily

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favour the existence and effect of dark

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matter.

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Professor Fred Watson: It does. It's the simplest explanation. It's

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Occam's razor. You apply the simplest

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explanation to something. Um, and

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yeah, dark matter fits that bill. And if you

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get rid of it, uh, you know, if you build a

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theory that says that Newtonian

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dynamics doesn't work at very low

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accelerations, which is what modified

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Newtonian dynamics is about, then it upsets

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other measurements that you can make. Yes. It

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means you don't have to have something extra

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to hold galaxies together, but you have

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problems with clusters of galaxies and things

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of that sort. So dark matter

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seems to fit the bill. The annoying thing is

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we've no idea what it is and we can't find

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it.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes, um, in fact finding

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anything of that nature is very, very

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difficult. Um, a Large Hadron

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Colliders had a few specks of success

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but um, but.

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Professor Fred Watson: Not nothing like what was hoped for.

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The um, the upgrade to 14 tera electron

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volts, which is what happened a decade

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or so ago. More than a decade now.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, yeah. Maybe they need to

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put some new batteries in it or something.

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Professor Fred Watson: Uh, there are plans for something like new

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batteries, but it's a bit more,

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um, a little bit more far reaching than that.

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So the Large Hadron Collider is a 27

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kilometre underground tunnel, circular.

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Uh, they want to increase the energy of it

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in order to find these heavier particles

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which might be what? Dark matter. Which might

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include dark matter particles. But to do that

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you've got to make the, the Large Hadron

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Collider bigger. And so what they're talking

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about now is the future circular collider

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which has a tunnel length of 100

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kilometres.

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Andrew Dunkley: Whoa.

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Professor Fred Watson: Not 27, but 100. Uh, and that's

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not funded. It's still uh, you know, gleaming

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people's eyes. But if it was funded today

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and was going to be built, it would come

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online in 2070,

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uh, by which time space Nuts might actually

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be defunct by then. I can imagine that.

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Although Jonty might keep it going.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. He may not. Nothing ever

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gets taken off the Internet, so it'll be

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there somewhere. Yes.

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Okay, so, uh, the answer is probably not.

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That's it.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's the correct answer. Probably.

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Andrew Dunkley: Probably not. All right, good thinking

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though, Rob, thanks for getting in touch with

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us. Great to hear from you. This is Space

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Nuts Q and A edition with Andrew Dunkley and

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Professor Fred Watson Watson.

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Space Nuts.

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Now, our next question is also a text

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question and it comes from

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Ian. Ian Anderson. Uh, my question is,

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if beings have developed vessels that

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travel at light speed, would we be able to

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detect them with current technology, could

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human eyes detect an object travelling at

355
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light speed? Yeah. Ah, interesting question,

356
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Ian.

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Professor Fred Watson: Um, well, the only things that travel at

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light speed are photons.

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Andrew Dunkley: Yes.

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Professor Fred Watson: Because it's impossible for anything else to

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reach light speed. Uh,

362
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yeah, because in a vacuum. Yes,

363
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that was correct. Yeah.

364
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Um, yes. All right, let's clarify that

365
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too. In a vacuum, that's good. 300,000

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kilometres per second. Um, um,

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relativity says that in order to

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accelerate something, uh, with

369
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mass to the speed of light, you need

370
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to input infinite energy. And

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that's a bit of a drawback really,

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uh, to travel at light speed. So photons do

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travel at light speed. We don't actually see

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photons as they whiz by, but we see their

375
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effect when they hit a surface. Uh, whether

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it's the retina of an eye or the wall behind

377
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the screen I'm looking at here now, the wall

378
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behind me, uh, that's when you see the

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photons because they're basically

380
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radiate the light. Yeah. Back to

381
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you. Um, so,

382
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uh, if, I mean,

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if you had some object

384
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travelling at very nearly the speed of light,

385
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invented by some alien

386
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beings of superb intelligence, um,

387
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you would be able to see it, but you'd have

388
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to be in certain places, uh,

389
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because the light would radiate out

390
00:15:58.010 --> 00:16:00.370
from it in a kind of almost like a shockwave.

391
00:16:01.110 --> 00:16:03.970
Uh, so you, you would only see it in

392
00:16:03.970 --> 00:16:06.370
if you looked in certain directions. It's,

393
00:16:06.370 --> 00:16:09.330
it's a phenomenon called aberration.

394
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It's the way a beam of light changes

395
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direction because of the velocity of the

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moving object.

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00:16:17.250 --> 00:16:19.890
Andrew Dunkley: Sounds similar to when a fighter, ah, jet

398
00:16:19.890 --> 00:16:21.860
hits the speed of sound. Um,

399
00:16:23.010 --> 00:16:24.770
people, they've actually taken a few

400
00:16:24.850 --> 00:16:27.130
photographs of aircraft at that precise

401
00:16:27.130 --> 00:16:30.030
moment and actually causes condensation

402
00:16:30.590 --> 00:16:33.510
in some cases around the aircraft, like

403
00:16:33.510 --> 00:16:35.190
they're bursting out of a cloud. But they

404
00:16:35.190 --> 00:16:37.830
actually created the cloud. Yeah, yeah. And

405
00:16:37.830 --> 00:16:40.510
the Big Bang and the Big Bang. That created

406
00:16:40.510 --> 00:16:43.390
the Big Bang as well. I grew up near

407
00:16:43.630 --> 00:16:45.070
an RAF base.

408
00:16:45.070 --> 00:16:45.630
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

409
00:16:45.630 --> 00:16:47.630
Andrew Dunkley: And we quite often used to hear

410
00:16:48.590 --> 00:16:51.110
sonic booms. Yeah, usually it was until they

411
00:16:51.110 --> 00:16:51.710
banned it.

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Professor Fred Watson: That's right, it was. They were double,

413
00:16:54.110 --> 00:16:56.030
weren't they? Didn't you get two bangs?

414
00:16:56.030 --> 00:16:56.510
Andrew Dunkley: Yes.

415
00:16:56.960 --> 00:16:59.260
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's what I thought. Um,

416
00:16:59.600 --> 00:17:02.040
yes, so, um, indeed. I used to live near an

417
00:17:02.040 --> 00:17:04.200
RAF base when I was a student M. At St.

418
00:17:04.200 --> 00:17:07.000
Andrews. There's ah, a. The Lucas Royal Air

419
00:17:07.000 --> 00:17:08.520
Force Base right next door. They used to

420
00:17:08.520 --> 00:17:10.240
scramble their jets nearly every day because

421
00:17:10.240 --> 00:17:12.800
of Russian bombers intercepting uh.

422
00:17:12.960 --> 00:17:13.400
Andrew Dunkley: Gosh.

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00:17:13.400 --> 00:17:15.520
Professor Fred Watson: Intercepting airspace. So not much has

424
00:17:15.520 --> 00:17:18.400
changed, has it? In the world of, of

425
00:17:20.320 --> 00:17:22.680
Russian aircraft probing the defences of the

426
00:17:22.680 --> 00:17:23.520
Western Alliance.

427
00:17:23.520 --> 00:17:26.480
Andrew Dunkley: Well, yeah, these days, um, around Australia

428
00:17:26.480 --> 00:17:27.840
it's Chinese ships.

429
00:17:28.120 --> 00:17:28.360
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

430
00:17:28.360 --> 00:17:30.440
Andrew Dunkley: So, yeah, seen a few of those.

431
00:17:31.020 --> 00:17:33.240
Um, but yeah, we used to see all sorts of

432
00:17:33.240 --> 00:17:35.320
weird and wonderful planes, uh, flying over

433
00:17:35.320 --> 00:17:37.640
the, the Mackie trainers. The

434
00:17:38.040 --> 00:17:40.880
Mirage jets were in action when I was

435
00:17:40.880 --> 00:17:43.880
a kid. Uh, we used to see the uh, Bell Huey

436
00:17:43.960 --> 00:17:46.640
helicopters. Uh, they even had uh, wear

437
00:17:46.640 --> 00:17:49.400
aways and windshields back then. The,

438
00:17:49.560 --> 00:17:50.920
the old prop aircraft.

439
00:17:51.080 --> 00:17:51.480
Professor Fred Watson: Right.

440
00:17:51.620 --> 00:17:54.280
Andrew Dunkley: Um, yeah, this was at uh, Williamtown Air

441
00:17:54.280 --> 00:17:56.680
Force Base, which was only 15 minutes drive

442
00:17:56.680 --> 00:17:59.210
away from where we lived. So. But there were

443
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jets up there all the time.

444
00:18:00.930 --> 00:18:02.850
Professor Fred Watson: Always There would be. Still are actually.

445
00:18:02.850 --> 00:18:04.410
William town's still pretty active.

446
00:18:04.410 --> 00:18:06.810
Andrew Dunkley: Well, yeah, of course. Right next door to.

447
00:18:06.810 --> 00:18:08.770
It's uh, Newcastle International Airport.

448
00:18:09.010 --> 00:18:09.650
Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

449
00:18:09.890 --> 00:18:12.130
Andrew Dunkley: So yeah, it's a pretty busy place these days.

450
00:18:13.300 --> 00:18:15.650
Uh, did we finish with uh, Ian's question?

451
00:18:15.820 --> 00:18:17.490
Uh, no, you probably wouldn't, would you? If

452
00:18:17.490 --> 00:18:18.730
there was a spacecraft.

453
00:18:18.730 --> 00:18:19.330
Professor Fred Watson: That's right.

454
00:18:19.330 --> 00:18:21.250
Andrew Dunkley: Capable of light speed.

455
00:18:22.290 --> 00:18:24.370
Professor Fred Watson: Yes. Well, you wouldn't if it was capable of

456
00:18:24.370 --> 00:18:25.770
light speed. But if it was just under the

457
00:18:25.770 --> 00:18:27.090
speed of light and you were looking in the

458
00:18:27.090 --> 00:18:29.340
right direction, then you would see it. Yeah.

459
00:18:29.340 --> 00:18:30.180
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah. Okay.

460
00:18:30.180 --> 00:18:32.620
Professor Fred Watson: It will be very heavily blue shifted as well.

461
00:18:32.620 --> 00:18:33.460
The radiation.

462
00:18:33.780 --> 00:18:35.780
Andrew Dunkley: Ah, okay. There's a telltale sign.

463
00:18:35.940 --> 00:18:36.580
Professor Fred Watson: There you go.

464
00:18:36.580 --> 00:18:38.020
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, we'll keep an eye out for them.

465
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Professor Fred Watson: Look for blue lights in the street and if you

466
00:18:40.220 --> 00:18:43.140
see them, pull over quickly.

467
00:18:43.220 --> 00:18:46.220
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, thanks Ian. Um, good to hear from

468
00:18:46.220 --> 00:18:48.340
you. Our final questions and audio question

469
00:18:48.580 --> 00:18:49.700
coming from

470
00:18:50.900 --> 00:18:51.700
Martin.

471
00:18:52.100 --> 00:18:54.640
Berman Gorvine: Hello, space nuts.

472
00:18:55.910 --> 00:18:58.870
Martin Berman Gourvine here, writer

473
00:18:59.190 --> 00:19:01.750
extraordinaire in many

474
00:19:02.150 --> 00:19:04.710
genres with

475
00:19:06.070 --> 00:19:08.310
a cosmic

476
00:19:08.310 --> 00:19:11.110
philosophical question. But

477
00:19:11.190 --> 00:19:13.950
first I want to say, Andrew, I

478
00:19:13.950 --> 00:19:16.870
forgive you for not looking me up

479
00:19:17.110 --> 00:19:19.830
when you were in the Washington D.C. area

480
00:19:20.730 --> 00:19:23.610
because I realised that if

481
00:19:23.610 --> 00:19:25.290
we had gotten together

482
00:19:26.970 --> 00:19:29.400
the uh,

483
00:19:29.610 --> 00:19:32.450
field of dad jokes would have

484
00:19:32.450 --> 00:19:35.370
been so dense that nothing

485
00:19:35.370 --> 00:19:37.850
could have escaped it. Not even

486
00:19:37.850 --> 00:19:40.810
groans. So My

487
00:19:40.810 --> 00:19:42.970
question for today is,

488
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what if the universe

489
00:19:47.780 --> 00:19:50.740
were indeed a simulation? Is

490
00:19:50.740 --> 00:19:52.660
there any hard proof

491
00:19:53.700 --> 00:19:56.700
we could have that such a thing were

492
00:19:56.700 --> 00:19:59.700
true? And I have to say I don't believe

493
00:19:59.700 --> 00:20:01.060
it for a moment.

494
00:20:02.340 --> 00:20:05.220
I'm with, uh, Dr. Samuel Johnson

495
00:20:05.300 --> 00:20:07.140
on this one, who

496
00:20:07.780 --> 00:20:10.060
refuted Bishop

497
00:20:10.060 --> 00:20:12.660
Barclay's idealism by

498
00:20:12.660 --> 00:20:14.340
kicking a pebble.

499
00:20:15.620 --> 00:20:18.500
And the only proof I could think of

500
00:20:18.900 --> 00:20:20.420
that the universe

501
00:20:21.620 --> 00:20:24.500
would be a simulation would be

502
00:20:24.500 --> 00:20:27.180
if we discovered that the

503
00:20:27.180 --> 00:20:30.020
redshift of an

504
00:20:30.020 --> 00:20:32.700
extremely distant galaxy were the

505
00:20:32.700 --> 00:20:35.460
square root of a negative number.

506
00:20:36.420 --> 00:20:39.060
Get it? Then the

507
00:20:39.060 --> 00:20:40.990
redshift would be

508
00:20:41.230 --> 00:20:44.150
imaginary, and hence the

509
00:20:44.150 --> 00:20:46.590
whole universe would be imaginary,

510
00:20:46.910 --> 00:20:49.710
which makes about as much sense as

511
00:20:49.870 --> 00:20:52.830
anything in this whole question.

512
00:20:54.030 --> 00:20:56.990
Can't wait for the answer, Vermin.

513
00:20:58.190 --> 00:21:00.750
Over and out.

514
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Out.

515
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Andrew Dunkley: I think he answered it himself, didn't he?

516
00:21:06.470 --> 00:21:06.670
Professor Fred Watson: And.

517
00:21:06.670 --> 00:21:08.310
Andrew Dunkley: And, um. Martin.

518
00:21:08.310 --> 00:21:08.710
Professor Fred Watson: Yes.

519
00:21:08.720 --> 00:21:10.840
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, I'm sorry we didn't get together, but,

520
00:21:10.840 --> 00:21:13.590
uh, my time in Washington, um, was very,

521
00:21:13.590 --> 00:21:15.950
very limited and we were on an organised tour

522
00:21:15.950 --> 00:21:17.790
and we all had to be in certain places at

523
00:21:17.790 --> 00:21:18.790
certain times. So

524
00:21:20.470 --> 00:21:23.110
just. I. I didn't have a minute

525
00:21:23.270 --> 00:21:26.070
up my sleeve. Uh, so that's.

526
00:21:26.150 --> 00:21:28.030
But I did think of you while I was there. I

527
00:21:28.030 --> 00:21:30.630
hope you detected that in our simulation

528
00:21:30.790 --> 00:21:32.790
universe style of life.

529
00:21:33.690 --> 00:21:35.730
Professor Fred Watson: Martin might have had 40 people turning up on

530
00:21:35.730 --> 00:21:38.250
his doorstep if you came here too.

531
00:21:38.780 --> 00:21:40.570
Andrew Dunkley: Um. Are we living in a simulation?

532
00:21:41.530 --> 00:21:44.370
Look, I, uh, think there are those that

533
00:21:44.370 --> 00:21:46.850
argue that, um, our universe is a

534
00:21:46.850 --> 00:21:49.770
manifestation of our minds

535
00:21:50.010 --> 00:21:52.650
that's been put forward. But,

536
00:21:53.020 --> 00:21:55.130
um, then, yes, simulation theories,

537
00:21:55.850 --> 00:21:57.530
that's sort of doing the rounds

538
00:21:58.660 --> 00:22:00.100
fairly regularly these days too.

539
00:22:00.880 --> 00:22:03.780
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yeah, it is

540
00:22:03.780 --> 00:22:06.780
an interesting one. Um, how you prove that

541
00:22:06.780 --> 00:22:09.700
we're not in a simulation? The what? The

542
00:22:10.020 --> 00:22:12.780
only line of argument that

543
00:22:12.780 --> 00:22:15.380
I've heard, and, um, it's quite an old one,

544
00:22:15.620 --> 00:22:18.580
is that if we discovered that

545
00:22:19.540 --> 00:22:22.500
space time was quantized

546
00:22:22.820 --> 00:22:25.790
so it was moved in jerks rather than

547
00:22:25.870 --> 00:22:28.870
smoothly, um, that might suggest

548
00:22:28.870 --> 00:22:31.870
that we're in a digital simulation. If

549
00:22:31.870 --> 00:22:34.430
you've got space time being represented by

550
00:22:34.430 --> 00:22:37.030
something that's, uh, you know, that's.

551
00:22:37.030 --> 00:22:39.750
That's got discrete steps in it

552
00:22:39.750 --> 00:22:42.230
rather than, um, being completely smooth. And

553
00:22:42.230 --> 00:22:45.030
I'm thinking now about the way we

554
00:22:45.030 --> 00:22:47.430
record music digitally, where you chop up the

555
00:22:47.430 --> 00:22:49.950
waveform into these tiny digital

556
00:22:50.190 --> 00:22:52.110
steps, uh, and

557
00:22:52.990 --> 00:22:54.630
you wouldn't know that you were listening to

558
00:22:54.630 --> 00:22:57.550
a digital sound, uh, made up of

559
00:22:57.550 --> 00:23:00.430
little jumps, um, uh, in time.

560
00:23:01.080 --> 00:23:03.990
Uh, so if the universe was discovered to

561
00:23:03.990 --> 00:23:06.990
be like a digital waveform, then, yeah,

562
00:23:07.790 --> 00:23:10.430
maybe it would be a simulation,

563
00:23:11.230 --> 00:23:13.710
but it's still not. Still not definite proof.

564
00:23:13.710 --> 00:23:16.190
I think the only way we'd really know is if

565
00:23:16.430 --> 00:23:19.030
this big face appeared in the sky and they

566
00:23:19.030 --> 00:23:21.470
said, ah, you're being simulated, you're not

567
00:23:21.470 --> 00:23:24.470
real, wouldn't feel good. It

568
00:23:24.470 --> 00:23:26.790
wouldn't feel good. No, it would not be a

569
00:23:26.790 --> 00:23:27.710
feel good moment.

570
00:23:27.790 --> 00:23:29.950
Andrew Dunkley: I'd have a bit of a problem with that. But,

571
00:23:29.950 --> 00:23:32.190
um, it's certainly something that's been

572
00:23:32.190 --> 00:23:34.949
portrayed in various forms of sci

573
00:23:34.949 --> 00:23:36.950
fi. The, the simulated universe.

574
00:23:36.950 --> 00:23:37.390
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah.

575
00:23:37.950 --> 00:23:40.830
Andrew Dunkley: Um, but yeah,

576
00:23:40.830 --> 00:23:42.990
I just don't understand how it could have,

577
00:23:43.130 --> 00:23:46.060
uh, exist. It's. There's just too much

578
00:23:46.060 --> 00:23:49.020
going on. Like if it's a simulation, it's got

579
00:23:49.020 --> 00:23:50.940
a damn good computer programme running it.

580
00:23:50.940 --> 00:23:53.440
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, that's right. Um,

581
00:23:54.020 --> 00:23:55.370
yeah, the uh.

582
00:23:55.620 --> 00:23:58.500
I, um, I mean in

583
00:23:58.500 --> 00:24:01.500
a sense there's an equivalent problem which

584
00:24:01.500 --> 00:24:04.260
is being, I guess, looked at by

585
00:24:04.260 --> 00:24:06.660
the world's great theoretical physicists

586
00:24:07.300 --> 00:24:10.180
in into who ask

587
00:24:10.180 --> 00:24:13.070
the question, is there a deeper underlying

588
00:24:13.230 --> 00:24:16.030
reality that underpins

589
00:24:16.350 --> 00:24:18.990
both quantum mechanics on one hand and

590
00:24:18.990 --> 00:24:21.150
relativity on the other and sort of

591
00:24:21.150 --> 00:24:23.910
essentially brings them together? Uh, and if

592
00:24:23.910 --> 00:24:26.390
there is a deeper reality, what does it mean

593
00:24:26.390 --> 00:24:29.310
for our existence? And you're quite right.

594
00:24:29.430 --> 00:24:32.110
Um, you know, consciousness has been, has

595
00:24:32.110 --> 00:24:34.750
been, uh, um. Just

596
00:24:34.830 --> 00:24:37.830
excuse me one minute, I'll just call them

597
00:24:37.830 --> 00:24:40.590
back. Consciousness, uh, has been,

598
00:24:40.750 --> 00:24:43.710
um, uh, uh,

599
00:24:43.830 --> 00:24:46.070
regarded as maybe a part and parcel of what

600
00:24:46.070 --> 00:24:48.790
the universe does and the way it behaves. Uh,

601
00:24:48.870 --> 00:24:51.590
so that's a, ah, very intriguing

602
00:24:51.910 --> 00:24:54.830
puzzle. If you need consciousness in

603
00:24:54.830 --> 00:24:56.630
order for the universe to exist. What kind of

604
00:24:56.630 --> 00:24:57.830
a universe are we living in?

605
00:24:58.150 --> 00:25:01.060
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, that's one of the things, um,

606
00:25:02.090 --> 00:25:04.830
uh, I think has been talked about fairly

607
00:25:04.830 --> 00:25:07.490
heavily in recent years. Um,

608
00:25:08.510 --> 00:25:11.470
that, that one really is a mind blower

609
00:25:11.470 --> 00:25:13.750
though, that, um, consciousness created the

610
00:25:13.750 --> 00:25:14.190
universe.

611
00:25:14.230 --> 00:25:15.790
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, yep.

612
00:25:15.950 --> 00:25:18.350
Andrew Dunkley: Again, very hard to believe.

613
00:25:20.270 --> 00:25:22.950
And, and it would, I don't know how it would

614
00:25:22.950 --> 00:25:23.230
work.

615
00:25:25.070 --> 00:25:27.270
Professor Fred Watson: No, uh, that's right. I mean, whose

616
00:25:27.270 --> 00:25:28.830
consciousness are we talking about here?

617
00:25:29.050 --> 00:25:30.030
Andrew Dunkley: Uh, well, that's right.

618
00:25:30.190 --> 00:25:31.790
Professor Fred Watson: Gods or ours or.

619
00:25:32.430 --> 00:25:34.110
Andrew Dunkley: Yeah, or a collective.

620
00:25:34.450 --> 00:25:37.330
Professor Fred Watson: Yeah, collective, yeah. M. Interesting.

621
00:25:37.970 --> 00:25:40.680
Andrew Dunkley: All very interesting and all very weird. But,

622
00:25:40.680 --> 00:25:43.090
um, always good to talk about.

623
00:25:43.760 --> 00:25:45.730
Uh, but thank you, Martin, for asking and

624
00:25:45.730 --> 00:25:47.610
answering your own question and allowing us

625
00:25:47.610 --> 00:25:49.810
to discuss it. It was um, it was a good one.

626
00:25:50.209 --> 00:25:52.090
Keep them coming. Uh, if you've got some

627
00:25:52.090 --> 00:25:54.910
questions for us, please send them in. We uh,

628
00:25:55.090 --> 00:25:56.890
encourage you to do that. Don't forget to

629
00:25:56.890 --> 00:25:58.290
tell us who you are and where you're from.

630
00:25:59.010 --> 00:26:01.210
And you can do that through our website

631
00:26:01.210 --> 00:26:03.990
spacenutspodcast.com or

632
00:26:03.990 --> 00:26:06.790
spacenuts IO and you just

633
00:26:06.790 --> 00:26:08.750
click on the little tab up the top that says

634
00:26:08.750 --> 00:26:11.270
ama. We did, I think, look at getting that

635
00:26:11.270 --> 00:26:13.750
change to, you know, voice

636
00:26:13.830 --> 00:26:15.830
messages and things, but I don't think this

637
00:26:15.830 --> 00:26:18.310
interface allows it. But yeah, you can fill

638
00:26:18.310 --> 00:26:20.630
in the blanks there as well. If, uh, you've

639
00:26:20.630 --> 00:26:22.230
got a device with a microphone, it's pretty

640
00:26:22.230 --> 00:26:24.950
easy to send us a voice message or a voice

641
00:26:25.030 --> 00:26:27.910
question. Fred Watson, we're all done. Thanks

642
00:26:27.910 --> 00:26:29.670
for helping out today with all of that.

643
00:26:30.380 --> 00:26:32.180
Professor Fred Watson: Uh, it's a pleasure. I'm, uh, glad to be of

644
00:26:32.180 --> 00:26:32.700
assistance.

645
00:26:33.420 --> 00:26:34.540
Andrew Dunkley: We'll see you next week.

646
00:26:34.700 --> 00:26:35.900
Professor Fred Watson: Sounds like it. Yeah.

647
00:26:36.540 --> 00:26:39.180
Andrew Dunkley: See you later this week, as the case may be.

648
00:26:39.180 --> 00:26:42.060
Yes, thanks, Professor

649
00:26:42.060 --> 00:26:43.860
Fred Watson Watson, astronomer at large. And

650
00:26:43.860 --> 00:26:46.300
thanks to Huw in the studio, who couldn't be

651
00:26:46.300 --> 00:26:49.100
with us today because he's a simulation.

652
00:26:50.120 --> 00:26:52.620
Uh, and from me, Andrew Dunkley.

653
00:26:53.100 --> 00:26:55.020
Catch uh you next time. Bye bye,

654
00:26:55.180 --> 00:26:57.660
Voice Over Guy: Space Nuts. You've been listening to the

655
00:26:57.660 --> 00:27:00.430
Space Nuts podcast, Mission Complete Houston,

656
00:27:00.590 --> 00:27:03.390
available at Apple Podcasts, Spotify,

657
00:27:03.470 --> 00:27:06.270
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658
00:27:06.270 --> 00:27:08.670
player. You can also stream on demand at

659
00:27:08.670 --> 00:27:11.100
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660
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